The Israel Situation

[araxna]

the life itself becomes pathetically quicker and faster..no solar energy would be enough to handle such a reality..

[raybia]

By providing names of different terrorist groups, you're trying to make the argument that Islamic terrorism is not any different than any other terrorism.

Not true War Lord. That was not my intention at all. I agree while all these groups are involved in terrorism, they are all diverse in their methodology, ideology, goals and agenda, etc. And some are definitely more volatile and dangerous...currently anyway...than others.

The purpose of providing names of different terrorist groups was to response to your remarks below:

All terrorists have been Islamic. That's a fact.

Whether it was Spain, England, Chechnya, or America, Philllipines, Indonesia, or others.




Although there are different terrorist groups out there, the ones that aren't connected to Islam aren't bent on worldwide domination.

I am not an expert on terrorist organizations so I'm not familar with the mission and vision statements of terrorist groups: Islamic nor non-Islamic



That's the media's problem, not mine.

Its a problem for innocent Muslims worldwide and those who care about innocent people being demonized and persecuted due to this stereotype but its certainly not a problem for the media as they are the one's benefiting from making Islam synonymous with terrorism hence is why they choose to do so.

You've always had it with me, if you read my posts carefully.


:up:




No, there isn't.

Its very depressing to examine the state of our world. I can only hope and pray that there is a reason and purpose for all of the madness.

I really want to be able to live in peace and prosperity and I want the same for ALL people. Just live and let live.

[War Lord]

That's one reserve, are you telling me something like that happened in every reserve in Canada. It still doesn't change the fact that historically, the Natives got screwed over, big time.

No.

Canadians got screwed over big time. Laid out big bucks for largely a waste of time.

It's not the money or lack of it that has caused most problems on reserves. It's their political structure of an unaccountable cheif council that's at the root of the problem.

Change that and you'll change many problems.

[FlameHead]

It's still too costly to put solar power on one's roof.

To fully cover a roof, so that it powers your house, you'd have to lay down about $70, 000 extra, not including labour.

For it to pay for itself, you'd have to live in the house for 25 years, which most people don't do anymore.

You're problem is that you've never done research into Solar Power. Plain and simple. For example, did you know you could create a solar heating panel by using tin cans? That's pretty cheep technology.... and recylcing too.

Speakin' of which, I bet you don't even recycle yet...

[War Lord]

This is completly different and I'm extreamly dissapointed and ashamed to know that my forefathers conquered another peoples land and drove them into semi-concentration camps. Then, our governement believes it can fix everything by providing money to them. It's ridiculous.

The difference however is that the Canadian army didn't, isn't bombing the **** out of these reservations in order to fully rid them of the land they rightfully own.

Nobody is keeping them on reserves.

Many natives have left the reserves and integrated successfully into society.

[War Lord]

You're problem is that you've never done research into Solar Power. Plain and simple. For example, did you know you could create a solar heating panel by using tin cans? That's pretty cheep technology.... and recylcing too.

Speakin' of which, I bet you don't even recycle yet...

I have done the research, that's why I can say affirmatively that proper solar panels are about $70 grand to fully power a house.

Although you can do a lot creatively to lessen the cost of powering one's home, I wouldn't use tin cans to heat my home and I don't have the time to search through garbage cans for free tin cans.

[FlameHead]

Its very depressing to examine the state of our world. I can only hope and pray that there is a reason and purpose for all of the madness.

I really want to be able to live in peace and prosperity and I want the same for ALL people. Just live and let live.

There is a purpose. It's the Global elites way of uniting all of the world in one global system of governance. They're going to send the world into chaos, instill Martial Law (for our Liberty) and control us that way. Unfortuanly however, this global elite also with to reduce the worlds population by 80% as well.

Ever see 'The Stand'? 'Outbreak'?

Biological warfare is next and what's most scary about that thought is not the fact that you'll likely die from the disease or whatever (those who do will be lucky) but, those who do live will be forced into a global police state.

[Mr Sparkle]

the life itself becomes pathetically quicker and faster..no solar energy would be enough to handle such a reality..


LOL, electric cars reached about 55 miles per hour at top speed.
during rush hour In San Diego speeds go as low as 15 miles per hour, the speed limit itself is about 65, and it recomended that you drive below it to save gas.

3 solar cells can power a house with the basic needs for daily living, for a small family and solar cells themselves have comparitively long lives, so in the end, the innitial high cost more than makes up for itself, a solar cell pays for itself in the first year.

[FlameHead]

I have done the research, that's why I can say affirmatively that proper solar panels are about $70 grand to fully power a house.

Although you can do a lot creatively to lessen the cost of powering one's home, I wouldn't use tin cans to heat my home and I don't have the time to search through garbage cans for free tin cans.

You're a lost cause and a perfect example of what's wrong with this planet.

[The Overlord]

Nobody is keeping them on reserves.

Many natives have left the reserves and integrated successfully into society.

Where they lose their culture and language, at least in the reserves the can try to retain culture and language. Natives stay on reserves because it is often the only to have a link to their past and traditions, that was the land promised, its either that or go and become assimilated by an alien culture that has conquered their land.

[Mr Sparkle]

I have done the research, that's why I can say affirmatively that proper solar panels are about $70 grand to fully power a house.

Although you can do a lot creatively to lessen the cost of powering one's home, I wouldn't use tin cans to heat my home and I don't have the time to search through garbage cans for free tin cans.

no, you haven't done the research, you just spouted a whole lot of bull****.
I WORK WITH THESE THINGS, and to poer a house you need about 10,000 dlls worth of panels.

for a family, running everything fullblast in the summer.

so, no, Bull****, you have done NO research.:down:down:down:down:down

[araxna]

to Mr.Sparkle-me not talking about speed..just talkin bout the advancement in industry..and how it effects our life..

[FlameHead]

Nobody is keeping them on reserves.

Many natives have left the reserves and integrated successfully into society.

You still don't get it. These people should not have to fight for land that is theres. They should not have to ask for permission to live where they want to live. The government should be asking them for permission to do anything on their land.

Besides, sure, some of these people move out of the reservations and live in our societies and what not but, you have to realize that their traditions have been taken away from them as they were forced into these reservations. These people used to be nomads with very strong traditions and now, they've been conditioned to believe that our way of living is the only way of living.

[War Lord]

Where they lose their culture and language, at least in the reserves the can try to retain culture and language. Natives stay on reserves because it is often the only to have a link to their past and traditions, that was the land promised, its either that or go and become assimilated by an alien culture that has conquered their land.

They can still do that if they want, but it means giving up modern conveniences, which they don't.

They're trying to have it both ways, which they can't.

[raybia]

There is a purpose. It's the Global elites way of uniting all of the world in one global system of governance. They're going to send the world into chaos, instill Martial Law (for our Liberty) and control us that way. Unfortuanly however, this global elite also with to reduce the worlds population by 80% as well.


Oh I realize that there is an AGENDA, but what I meant was I hope there is a divine purpose as to why evil is running rampant in the world so that eventually Justice will be served and Freedom and Equality will established in our world.

Ever see 'The Stand'? 'Outbreak'?

Have you ever read the The World Order: Our Secret Rulers by Eustace Clarence Mullins and Conspirator's Hierarchy : The Committee of 300 by John Coleman? You really should.

Biological warfare is next and what's most scary about that thought is not the fact that you'll likely die from the disease or whatever (those who do will be lucky) but, those who do live will be forced into a global police state.

Bological warfare has already begun for longer than what you realize.

[War Lord]

no, you haven't done the research, you just spouted a whole lot of bull****.
I WORK WITH THESE THINGS, and to poer a house you need about 10,000 dlls worth of panels.

for a family, running everything fullblast in the summer.

so, no, Bull****, you have done NO research.:down:down:down:down:down

Really?

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question418.htm

To power a house the way most people in North America run it, it would cost about $64,000. Because most people don't have the money sitting in the bank, they'd have to borrow to get it right away, you're looking at laying out upwards of $200 grand for the mortgage of the panels after paying off the interest.

Maybe in Mexico, where you can sleep on the roof year round, you might not need solar panels for things like heat, but that's hardly representative of most places in North America where they have snow on the ground for a large portion of the year, not to mention that in winter you don't have a reliable source of sunlight.

[cass]

no, you haven't done the research, you just spouted a whole lot of bull****.
I WORK WITH THESE THINGS, and to poer a house you need about 10,000 dlls worth of panels.

for a family, running everything fullblast in the summer.

so, no, Bull****, you have done NO research.:down:down:down:down:down

How in the **** do you know?

Just because someone disagrees then you automatically know they've done no research?

Get off your high and mighty horse.

[War Lord]

You still don't get it. These people should not have to fight for land that is theres. They should not have to ask for permission to live where they want to live. The government should be asking them for permission to do anything on their land.

Besides, sure, some of these people move out of the reservations and live in our societies and what not but, you have to realize that their traditions have been taken away from them as they were forced into these reservations. These people used to be nomads with very strong traditions and now, they've been conditioned to believe that our way of living is the only way of living.

It's called choices. Nobody forced them into reservations, as I recall the history. They were given the choice of being assimilated into society or living in reservations and they made the choice.

They can still be nomads and all that, if they choose, but it means giving up the conveniences of modern society like hunting guns or Ford f-150's.

[War Lord]

You're a lost cause and a perfect example of what's wrong with this planet.

The planet is not really in trouble.

Sleep well, you'll still be alive by this time next year and the year after that and the year after that.

[FlameHead]

Oh I realize that there is an AGENDA, but what I meant was I hope there is a divine purpose as to why evil is running rampant in the world so that eventually Justice will be served and Freedom and Equality will established in our world.

I fully believe that there is something divine happening. This is the ultimate battle of good and evil and it's escallating to his climax as we speak. Humans will soon have the choice to either rid the earth of evil and live the next 26,000 years in peace or let it breed and live the next 26,000 years in this **** we're forced to live in now.

December 21, 2012 is an extreamly important date and if enough people are not aware of what's truly happening on this planet, then I fear humanity will be lost forever.

Have you ever read the The World Order: Our Secret Rulers by Eustace Clarence Mullins and Conspirator's Hierarchy : The Committee of 300 by John Coleman? You really should.

I haven't read it but I did watch a documentary with the exact same title. In fact, I've watched over 50 docs on the subject of the New World Order, Illuminati and Secret governments in our history.

I'd love to get my hands on some of those books though.

Bological warfare has already begun for longer than what you realize.

Definitely but, not on a scale that we'll see in the future.

[FlameHead]

The planet is not really in trouble.

Sleep well, you'll still be alive by this time next year and the year after that and the year after that.

Now, you're just dilusional. If you see nothing wrong with this planet then... I really don't know what to say. I mean, I know your blindly dense but, I did think you had some common sense.

Am I actually talking to Stephen Harper here?

[War Lord]

Now, you're just dilusional. If you see nothing wrong with this planet then... I really don't know what to say. I mean, I know your blindly dense but, I did think you had some common sense.

Am I actually talking to Stephen Harper here?

Would you like my autograph?

[Mr Sparkle]

Really?

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question418.htm

To power a house the way most people in North America run it, it would cost about $64,000. Because most people don't have the money sitting in the bank, they'd have to borrow to get it right away, you're looking at laying out upwards of $200 grand for the mortgage of the panels after paying off the interest.

Maybe in Mexico, where you can sleep on the roof year round, you might not need solar panels for things like heat, but that's hardly representative of most places in North America where they have snow on the ground for a large portion of the year, not to mention that in winter you don't have a reliable source of sunlight.


lol, you Idiot, all my architectural work is in the states.
but yeah, I can see how an idiot like you would link to a site called "how stuff works" and ignore someone like me who actually works with solar cell providers.
so that was your research? "how stuff works"?

hahahahahahaha good show, it's still bull**** :down:down:down:down:down:down:down

[Mr Sparkle]

How in the **** do you know?

Just because someone disagrees then you automatically know they've done no research?

Get off your high and mighty horse.

how the **** do i know?
because like I said

I WORK WITH THIS STUFF!!!!!

so I suggest you STFU about something you CLEARLY know nothing about!!!:o:down

[War Lord]

lol, you Idiot, all my architectural work is in the states.
but yeah, I can see how an idiot like you would link to a site called "how stuff works" and ignore someone like me who actually works with solar cell providers.
so that was your research? "how stuff works"?

hahahahahahaha good show, it's still bull**** :down:down:down:down:down:down:down

I'll take informatin from sites that actually provide hard numbers than posters who make claims but provide no information, thank you.

[cass]

how the **** do i know?
because like I said

I WORK WITH THIS STUFF!!!!!

so I suggest you STFU about something you CLEARLY know nothing about!!!:o:down


The fact is that you do not know what I or jonty know. Therefore you can't claim you do, no matter what your occupation is.

I suggest you never make another suggestion to me ;)

[War Lord]

how the **** do i know?
because like I said

I WORK WITH THIS STUFF!!!!!

so I suggest you STFU about something you CLEARLY know nothing about!!!:o:down


I don't care if you make the stuff itself, unless you're prepared to lay out some numbers, I'll rely on reasonable sites that do lay out numbers.

Just to be clear, I'm well aware of how you can sell back excess power, if you have any, back to the power companies. Which is what I'd do if I were willing to lay out $70 grand for solar power.

[Mr Sparkle]

The fact is that you do not know what I or jonty know. Therefore you can't claim you do, no matter what your occupation is.

I suggest you never make another suggestion to me ;)

LOL, actually, yeah, I can know.
duh! that's obvious, anyone with even a passing knowledge of eco-design would know that the claims made by jonty are pure bull****.
simple as that. therefore anyone backing said claims can't have said passing knowledge.

duh.:):up:

[cass]

LOL, actually, yeah, I can know.
duh! that's obvious, anyone with even a passing knowledge of eco-design would know that the claims made by jonty are pure bull****.
simple as that. therefore anyone backing said claims can't have said passing knowledge.

duh.:):up:

Jonty has numbers. You don't. You just rely on your claim.

So, uh, duh!

[Mr Sparkle]

I don't care if you make the stuff itself, unless you're prepared to lay out some numbers, I'll rely on reasonable sites that do lay out numbers.

Just to be clear, I'm well aware of how you can sell back excess power, if you have any, back to the power companies. Which is what I'd do if I were willing to lay out $70 grand for solar power.

I don't make the stuff, I work with it.
this has nothing to do with selling off excess power, it has everything to do with the cost of solar panels. Jeeeeeeesus Jonty. are pretending to be dumb or what?

[War Lord]

I don't make the stuff, I work with it.
this has nothing to do with selling off excess power, it has everything to do with the cost of solar panels. Jeeeeeeesus Jonty. are pretending to be dumb or what?

As I said, I don't care how involved you might be in the process,whether working with or or making it. In fact, I don't care if you shiat the stuff.

Unless you provide hard numbers, I'll rely on sites that do provide the numbers.

Here's some solar panels for sale, from a major department store. Which makes it's money by providing goods at a lower profit than anywhere else.

http://www.canadiantirepower.ca/en/productsummary.php?cat=Solar%20Panels&search=&postalCode=t5a3r1&region=9

Based on that price, I'd need to lay out almost $120 grand to fully power my house, which seems reasonable since the $70 grand I've found are probably in US dollars. That's if I did the work myself. I'd have to lay out more to get somebody to do the work for me.

Of course, it would cost me much more because we don't get peak conditions of sunlight where I live.

[Mr Sparkle]

Jonty has numbers. You don't. You just rely on your claim.

So, uh, duh!

jonty has numbers? the only numbers are from a site called "how stuff works" and it's not even the number that Jonty claims he did the research for, so Jonty's "numbers" become Invalid.
however, if you look around the internet, you will see thaty NO-one (no one refutable anyways) will quote you a price, you know why that is?
so, yeah, no numbers, again, you didn't even bother to read the link that Jonty provided and you dare say he has "numbers" you're a ****ing buffon cass :down

[War Lord]

jonty has numbers? the only numbers are from a site called "how stuff works" and it's not even the number that Jonty claims he did the research for, so Jonty's "numbers" become Invalid.
however, if you look around the internet, you will see thaty NO-one (no one refutable anyways) will quote you a price, you know why that is?
so, yeah, no numbers, again, you didn't even bother to read the link that Jonty provided and you dare say he has "numbers" you're a ****ing buffon cass :down

I can provide solar power for the dumbed down price of free.

I don't have numbers to back up my ascertain, but I can do it. :up: :up: :up:

[cass]

jonty has numbers? the only numbers are from a site called "how stuff works" and it's not even the number that Jonty claims he did the research for, so Jonty's "numbers" become Invalid.
however, if you look around the internet, you will see thaty NO-one (no one refutable anyways) will quote you a price, you know why that is?
so, yeah, no numbers, again, you didn't even bother to read the link that Jonty provided and you dare say he has "numbers" you're a ****ing buffon cass :down

*ahem*

He has numbers, you don't.

Deal with it.

[Mr Sparkle]

I can provide solar power for the dumbed down price of free.

I don't have numbers to back up my ascertain, but I can do it. :up: :up: :up:

here you go (http://www.insidebayarea.com/business/ci_4023047)....how much does it say it costs Jonty??????

[Mr Sparkle]

*ahem*

He has numbers, you don't.

Deal with it.

really, what are his numbers (from the website) and the ones in his posts?
are they the same numbers? do you even know the numbers?

[War Lord]

here you go (http://www.insidebayarea.com/business/ci_4023047)....how much does it say it costs Jonty??????

Although it's not specific, yes.

But solar systems still aren't cheap, and builders are offering them using different approaches. Some builders include solar systems as standard equipment — while others offer them as an option that can add thousands of dollars to the cost of a home.

Theoretically, saving 60percent on your energy bill could translate into a potential saving of $828 a year, based on the average PG&E bill for the Bay Area running at about $115 a month for electricity and gas.

But the tradeoff is that a zero-energy home can cost thousands of dollars more than conventional homes built to the state's current code for energy efficiency. The solar system alone can run from $15,00O to $20,000 for a new home before a state rebate brings down the cost by about one-third, according to Hammon. (For new homes, the builder applies for the rebate for the solar system; for existing homes, homeowners can apply for the rebate.)

[Mr Sparkle]

Although it's not specific, yes.

LOL, you fail at reading

"The solar system alone can run from $15,00O to $20,000 for a new home (http://www.insidebayarea.com/business/ci_4023047) before a state rebate brings down the cost by about one-third, according to Hammon. (For new homes, the builder applies for the rebate for the solar system; for existing homes, homeowners can apply for the rebate.)"

LOL, nice edit, but yeah, 15 to 20,000 seems pretty damned specific, and you'll notice it speaks of a rebate, of about one third.

[War Lord]

Where I live, there aren't rebates, so that in part is why it's more expensive than where you are.

[FlameHead]

Where I live, there aren't rebates, so that in part is why it's more expensive than where you are.

That's because our government sucks, that's why.

[War Lord]

That's because our government sucks, that's why.

Hey, the fed libs had 13 years to try and create something.

I'm betting Harper will have done something before his term is out.

[Mr Sparkle]

Where I live, there aren't rebates, so that in part is why it's more expensive than where you are.

however, before the rebates the system for a new home is about 15,000 to 20,000 (they are still quoting expensive to me) a far cry from the 64,000 or 72,000 you claimed was the price after your "research"

[War Lord]

however, before the rebates the system for a new home is about 15,000 to 20,000 (they are still quoting expensive to me) a far cry from the 64,000 or 72,000 you claimed was the price after your "research"

The numbers I'm giving includes labour and where I'm at, not where you are.

According to the article, that $15 to 20 grand is just for the material, not labour.

The solar system alone can run from $15,00O to $20,000 for a new home

There's no indication that the figure provided includes labour, so it probably doesn't, which makes it comparable to the numbers I've found.

[FlameHead]

Hey, the fed libs had 13 years to try and create something.

I'm betting Harper will have done something before his term is out.

Yeah, sure. Harper hasn't done anything for the environment yet... besides give people tax credits on transit. Wow, what an environment platform. He's backed out of a commitement to the world (Kyoto) which is a protocol which would never have come about without Canadian involvement. Harper is making the rest of the world hate us too and is probably planing his own 9/11 as we speak.

Bastard.

[War Lord]

Yeah, sure. Harper hasn't done anything for the environment yet... besides give people tax credits on transit. Wow, what an environment platform. He's backed out of a commitement to the world (Kyoto) which is a protocol which would never have come about without Canadian involvement. Harper is making the rest of the world hate us too and is probably planing his own 9/11 as we speak.

Bastard.

He's done more in his 6 months of office than the Libs have done in their 13 years.

He's more or less fulfilled his five promises that he's run on.

1. Passed the accountability act.
2. Cut the GST.
3. Gave a program on child care that applies to everybody.
4. Got the provinces to work on a health guarentee to cut waiting times.
5. And he brought in legislation to eliminate the wasteful gun registry and bring in somethign that will work, like tougher laws for committing crimes with guns and more money for police.

Kyoto was a worthless document, because not one country has really been able to obey it other than through political trickery.

I'd rather have something that works and can be followed, rather than something that feels good but doesn't work.

[War Lord]

Repeat, repeat.

[FlameHead]

He's done more in his 6 months of office than the Libs have done in their 13 years.

He's more or less fulfilled his five promises that he's run on.

1. Passed the accountability act.
2. Cut the GST.
3. Gave a program on child care that applies to everybody.
4. Got the provinces to work on a health guarentee to cut waiting times.
5. And he brought in legislation to eliminate the wasteful gun registry and bring in somethign that will work, like tougher laws for committing crimes with guns and more money for police.

Kyoto was a worthless document, because not one country has really been able to obey it other than through political trickery.

I'd rather have something that works and can be followed, rather than something that feels good but doesn't work.

I'd rather have something like Kyoto than nothing, which is exactly what we have now.

The GST cut is **** and the child care crap he's done is mearly a paying off of those in need with no real benifits.... but, we've had this argument before so, there is no use repeating this this thread about Hezbollah and the crisis in the middle east.

[War Lord]

I'd rather have something like Kyoto than nothing, which is exactly what we have now.

The GST cut is **** and the child care crap he's done is mearly a paying off of those in need with no real benifits.... but, we've had this argument before so, there is no use repeating this this thread about Hezbollah and the crisis in the middle east.

You'd rather have something unworkable now, than something that is workable in a couple of years?

I thought you wanted to save the world?

Harper's still kept his promises, which is undebateable. I don't consider a family who eats macaroni three times a week and shops at Value Village so the mom can stay home to be a family that doesn't need the money.

Now let's get back to topic. It's funny how threads get off topic.

[FlameHead]

Indeed, way off topic here...

Look, I'll reserve my judgement on Harpers Environmental platform until actually seeing one but, things aren't looking good. Let's see if he can surprise me.

[The Overlord]

Now let's get on topic here and lets get realstic, Israel is not going away anytime soon. Perhaps creating Israel in that messed part of the world wasn't the wisest choice, but after the Holocaust the Jews felt they needed a state to defend themselves and they decided to create it in the ME for religious reasons (also they kinda have a historical claim on it), Israel has been created, that's the reality and the people there are really committed to staying there and they have the best army in the region. The only way Israel will driven out is through a war and Israel has enough nukes that it would cost the Arab countries deeply if they try to do it. Israel is not going to just go away no matter how much you want them to, the arab countries have to live with Israel or they suffer the effects of a total war with a modern power.

[Mr Sparkle]

The numbers I'm giving includes labour and where I'm at, not where you are.

According to the article, that $15 to 20 grand is just for the material, not labour.



There's no indication that the figure provided includes labour, so it probably doesn't, which makes it comparable to the numbers I've found.


LOL, no jonty, not by any stretch of the imagination is ANYONE going to charge you 50,000 dlls to install a system, not only that, but there is no indication that the number DOESN'T include labour, that's just your feverish little brain looking for a way out. IT IS NOT comparable to the numbers you quoted, if you where a contractor your license would be revoked and you'd be sued.
your numbers are either flawed or fabricated, biased and lack in the basic research that you willingly spoke about before.
but go ahead, tell someone who works with contrators ON A DAILY BASIS about the cost of labour. :rolleyes:
please Jonty. you're reaching, and like I said before, you are flat out wrong.

you didn't make the research, you googled "solar cells" and opened the first link that came up, sorry that does not constitute research.
you should be man enough to admit your mistake, don't engage in these pathetic justification efforts, that are only that, pathetic.
having an opinion is all fine and dandy, but touting it as fact based on your ignorance is not something to either defend or be proud of.
you could've simply said "I've heard solar systems are really expensive" but you where desperetaly trying to proove a point, hence came the whole "I have researched this, I'm knowledgeable" which, of course, was a lie.
then, you could've just accepted the fact that you obviously know nothing about the subject, but you keep engaging in these little sad routines, where no one except you think that you make any sense.

why is this such a threat to you? isn't it good that you can get a solar home for a relatively low cost.

[Mr Sparkle]

Now let's get on topic here and lets get realstic, Israel is not going away anytime soon. Perhaps creating Israel in that messed part of the world wasn't the wisest choice, but after the Holocaust the Jews felt they needed a state to defend themselves and they decided to create it in the ME for religious reasons (also they kinda have a historical claim on it), Israel has been created, that's the reality and the people there are really committed to staying there and they have the best army in the region. The only way Israel will driven out is through a war and Israel has enough nukes that it would cost the Arab countries deeply if they try to do it. Israel is not going to just go away no matter how much you want them to, the arab countries have to live with Israel or they suffer the effects of a total war with a modern power.


:) finally, someone who states things as they are.
yes, Israel is not some poor victim, and the resons why they are where they are, is a matter of religion.
Israel talks about it's right to exist without any recognition for the right to exist of all the people who where already there.
Israel has nukes sure, but how exactly do you nuke a terrorist that has no real afilliation to a country.
what if a Saudi executes a deadly attack on Israel?
it's not like they can go to Afghanistan anymore.:o
in the end, if we realize that Israel is NOT blameless we are better equiped to formulate an idea of the situation, we might not be part of the solution, but we'll know the truth.

[FlameHead]

Now let's get on topic here and lets get realstic, Israel is not going away anytime soon. Perhaps creating Israel in that messed part of the world wasn't the wisest choice, but after the Holocaust the Jews felt they needed a state to defend themselves and they decided to create it in the ME for religious reasons (also they kinda have a historical claim on it), Israel has been created, that's the reality and the people there are really committed to staying there and they have the best army in the region. The only way Israel will driven out is through a war and Israel has enough nukes that it would cost the Arab countries deeply if they try to do it. Israel is not going to just go away no matter how much you want them to, the arab countries have to live with Israel or they suffer the effects of a total war with a modern power.

You have to first realize that Israels might, their army, comes from the US. One has to think that their decision making processes come from there as well. Do you actually think it's a coincidence that the only 2 nations on earth that fully support Israel are the US and Brits?... and Canada somewhat too, sadly but, that's because we have Bush Jr in power.

[War Lord]

LOL, no jonty, not by any stretch of the imagination is ANYONE going to charge you 50,000 dlls to install a system, not only that, but there is no indication that the number DOESN'T include labour, that's just your feverish little brain looking for a way out. IT IS NOT comparable to the numbers you quoted, if you where a contractor your license would be revoked and you'd be sued.
your numbers are either flawed or fabricated, biased and lack in the basic research that you willingly spoke about before.
but go ahead, tell someone who works with contrators ON A DAILY BASIS about the cost of labour. :rolleyes:
please Jonty. you're reaching, and like I said before, you are flat out wrong.

you didn't make the research, you googled "solar cells" and opened the first link that came up, sorry that does not constitute research.
you should be man enough to admit your mistake, don't engage in these pathetic justification efforts, that are only that, pathetic.
having an opinion is all fine and dandy, but touting it as fact based on your ignorance is not something to either defend or be proud of.
you could've simply said "I've heard solar systems are really expensive" but you where desperetaly trying to proove a point, hence came the whole "I have researched this, I'm knowledgeable" which, of course, was a lie.
then, you could've just accepted the fact that you obviously know nothing about the subject, but you keep engaging in these little sad routines, where no one except you think that you make any sense.

why is this such a threat to you? isn't it good that you can get a solar home for a relatively low cost.



That extra $50,000 includes labour and running the entire house, air-conditioning and all ever without having to be connected to the grid, which the article that you provided indicated that those people were still connected.

[raybia]

Now let's get on topic here and lets get realstic, Israel is not going away anytime soon. Perhaps creating Israel in that messed part of the world wasn't the wisest choice, but after the Holocaust the Jews felt they needed a state to defend themselves and they decided to create it in the ME for religious reasons (also they kinda have a historical claim on it), Israel has been created, that's the reality and the people there are really committed to staying there and they have the best army in the region. The only way Israel will driven out is through a war and Israel has enough nukes that it would cost the Arab countries deeply if they try to do it. Israel is not going to just go away no matter how much you want them to, the arab countries have to live with Israel or they suffer the effects of a total war with a modern power.


It would be ridculous for anyone (Palestians and Arab leaders included) to suggest that the land of Israel be given back to the Palestians and that Israels leave the area. Thats like America giving back the land that makes up the U.S. to the desendants of Native Americans or making African-Americans go back to Africa.

I feel that anyone who has been born in that land has the right of citizenship so now we all have to learn to co-exist in a society that respects our rights as human beings.

[War Lord]

You have to first realize that Israels might, their army, comes from the US. One has to think that their decision making processes come from there as well. Do you actually think it's a coincidence that the only 2 nations on earth that fully support Israel are the US and Brits?... and Canada somewhat too, sadly but, that's because we have Bush Jr in power.

Europe is too busy trying to handle their own Islamicists. They're too scared of war within their own territory to do the right thing.

[cass]

Europe is too busy trying to handle their own Islamicists. They're too scared of war within their own territory to do the right thing.

The whole Neville Chamberlain "Peace in our day, screw our children" deal.

[Mr Sparkle]

That extra $50,000 includes labour and running the entire house, air-conditioning and all ever without having to be connected to the grid, which the article that you provided indicated that those people were still connected.

:rolleyes:

no jonty, that's not it, they are connected, but they will not spend 50,000 dlls, what do you like live with your mom or something? have you never payed utilities?
a post ago you spoke specifically of the labour costs, now you're saying it's the grid (which it wouldn't since you'd be provinding the elec. co. or not using electricity from the grid at all)


see even your post says this

"Just to be clear, I'm well aware of how you can sell back excess power, if you have any, back to the power companies. Which is what I'd do if I were willing to lay out $70 grand for solar power" (http://superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9678094&postcount=251)

so, No jonty, you're wrong. and even the labour thing was bull**** absed upon this post by you

"Based on that price, I'd need to lay out almost $120 grand to fully power my house, which seems reasonable since the $70 grand I've found are probably in US dollars. That's if I did the work myself. I'd have to lay out more to get somebody to do the work for me." (http://superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9678219&postcount=255)


see? like I said, it's sad, stop doing it.

[Man-Thing]

ummm. the FACT that Hezzbolah is in the Lebanese government doesn't give any credence to Israel's aggresive actions being unjustifiable. It actually goes the other way around, it shows that the Lebanese WANT them there, and therefore aren't as "innocent" as people are trying to say.

Hezzbolah is a terrorist organization funded by Iran. I hope Israel deals with them severly.:up:

[Man-Thing]

you guys and your arguing over solar panels.:(

[War Lord]

:rolleyes:

no jonty, that's not it, they are connected, but they will not spend 50,000 dlls, what do you like live with your mom or something? have you never payed utilities?
a post ago you spoke specifically of the labour costs, now you're saying it's the grid (which it wouldn't since you'd be provinding the elec. co. or not using electricity from the grid at all)


see even your post says this

"Just to be clear, I'm well aware of how you can sell back excess power, if you have any, back to the power companies. Which is what I'd do if I were willing to lay out $70 grand for solar power" (http://superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9678094&postcount=251)

so, No jonty, you're wrong. and even the labour thing was bull**** absed upon this post by you

"Based on that price, I'd need to lay out almost $120 grand to fully power my house, which seems reasonable since the $70 grand I've found are probably in US dollars. That's if I did the work myself. I'd have to lay out more to get somebody to do the work for me." (http://superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9678219&postcount=255)


see? like I said, it's sad, stop doing it.

I've always thought of it as an all inclusive costs, because having the materials sit in your back yard, doesn't do you a whole lot of good unless you paid to get it installed.

If you had gone to www.canadiantirepower.ca, the costs of the solar power were all laid out.

[Daisy]

Enough with the solar panels/enviromental argument.

It's off topic, and since at this point it only seems to be two of you arguing about the costs, why don't the two of you take it to PMs?

Thank you and have a nice day. :)

[Mr Sparkle]

ummm. the FACT that Hezzbolah is in the Lebanese government doesn't give any credence to Israel's aggresive actions being unjustifiable. It actually goes the other way around, it shows that the Lebanese WANT them there, and therefore aren't as "innocent" as people are trying to say.

Hezzbolah is a terrorist organization funded by Iran. I hope Israel deals with them severly.:up:

do you feel the same way about Israel, that routinely demolished settlements for the sake of it's own expansion?
or the refugee camp raids where they took women and children?
all those bombing where it kills civillians, then "investigates" and clears itself of blame?:confused::up:

[Mr Sparkle]

I've always thought of it as an all inclusive costs, because having the materials sit in your back yard, doesn't do you a whole lot of good unless you paid to get it installed.

LOL, you failed at reading your own posts :up:

[War Lord]

you guys and your arguing over solar panels.:(

We're trying to bring peace through power alternatives.

[The Overlord]

:) finally, someone who states things as they are.
yes, Israel is not some poor victim, and the resons why they are where they are, is a matter of religion.
Israel talks about it's right to exist without any recognition for the right to exist of all the people who where already there.
Israel has nukes sure, but how exactly do you nuke a terrorist that has no real afilliation to a country.
what if a Saudi executes a deadly attack on Israel?
it's not like they can go to Afghanistan anymore.:o
in the end, if we realize that Israel is NOT blameless we are better equiped to formulate an idea of the situation, we might not be part of the solution, but we'll know the truth.

Oh, Israel is not balmeless some victim here, but neither are the Palestinians or the Lebanese. Lety's face it, most of the countries were created by ethnic cleansing and millions of people like yourself still profit from it, so if Israel has no right to exist, neither does Canada, the US or Australia, because those countries were created by ethnic cleansing and I'm guessing you live in one of those countries, so unless your willing to allow your nation to disband and move to England with the rest of the English speaking people who profitted off Ethnic cleansing.

Now I don't think the Israelis will nuke anyone over a terrorist attack, unless its somehow nuclear and can be traced back to a state, but if the arab nations are stupid enough to try and drive Israel into the sea with an open war, they going to get seriously burned. The arab nations have two options try to live in peace with Israel or face a truly devastating war. The Palestinians may have a legitimate beef with israel, but they lose legitimacy when they use terrorist tactics that target civilians. If they used Gandhi style tactics to get their way, I could feel for them, until that happens, I won't.

Besides why should I care about Palestinain freedom, when they still enforce anti buggery laws, why should I support Palestine, why they won't grant freedom to members of their own population? Plus considering that Hamas and Fatah nearly went to war with eachother, its seems like the Palestinians should make reforms to their own society before worrying about statehood.

[Mr Sparkle]

Oh, Israel is not balmeless some victim here, but neither are the Palestinians or the Lebanese. Lety's face it, most of the countries were created by ethnic cleansing and millions of people like yourself still profit from it, so if Israel has no right to exist, neither does Canada, the US or Australia, because those countries were created by ethnic cleansing and I'm guessing you live in one of those countries, so unless your willing to allow your nation to disband and move to England with the rest of the English speaking people who profitted off Ethnic cleansing.

Now I don't think the Israelis will nuke anyone over a terrorist attack, unless its somehow nuclear and can be traced back to a state, but if the arab nations are stupid enough to try and drive Israel into the sea with an open war, they going to get seriously burned. The arab nations have two options try to live in peace with Israel or face a truly devastating war. The Palestinians may have a legitimate beef with israel, but they lose legitimacy when they use terrorist tactics that target civilians. If they used Gandhi style tactics to get their way, I could feel for them, until that happens, I won't.

Besides why should I care about Palestinain freedom, when they still enforce anti buggery laws, why should I support Palestine, why they won't grant freedom to members of their own population? Plus considering that Hamas and Fatah nearly went to war with eachother, its seems like the Palestinians should make reforms to their own society before worrying about statehood.


you guess wrong.


see, this in the end, is the flawed logic that will be the end of us.
some arab regions have been in strife and war for decades, death means little to them anymore, it's not like you can "bomb" them back to the stoneage, that be a leap to the future from some of them.
Israel is going to reap the whirlwind if it doesn't start stepping lightly, no nation is too big to get it's ass handed back it, and as far as societal changes, those can only come ONCE stability is restored, not before.
Israel overstepped and routinely oversteps it's bounds, that's bound to have consequences, they are the relatively new neighbour, they are the ones that should make the rational concetions (sp?) .

[War Lord]

you guess wrong.


see, this in the end, is the flawed logic that will be the end of us.
some arab regions have been in strife and war for decades, death means little to them anymore, it's not like you can "bomb" them back to the stoneage, that be a leap to the future from some of them.
Israel is going to reap the whirlwind if it doesn't start stepping lightly, no nation is too big to get it's ass handed back it, and as far as societal changes, those can only come ONCE stability is restored, not before.
Israel overstepped and routinely oversteps it's bounds, that's bound to have consequences, they are the relatively new neighbour, they are the ones that should make the rational concetions (sp?) .

In otherwords, Israel has to take it on the chin and must be punished for the virtue of existing.

[The Overlord]

You have to first realize that Israels might, their army, comes from the US. One has to think that their decision making processes come from there as well. Do you actually think it's a coincidence that the only 2 nations on earth that fully support Israel are the US and Brits?... and Canada somewhat too, sadly but, that's because we have Bush Jr in power.

The source of Israel's technology is ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, where Israel gets its technology from, doesn't change the fact Israel has this technology, it doesn't change the reality on the ground. Even if the US stopped giving weapons to Israel, Israel still has the weapons it already has and they are determined to keep their state and they have the technology to really make the Arab countries pay dearly if they try to destroy israel. That's why needlessly provoking the Israelis (by say kidnapping some their soldeirs) is very foolish.

[Mr Sparkle]

In otherwords, Israel has to take it on the chin and must be punished for the virtue of existing.

no, not really, it has to give the same "right to exist" it so eloquently pleads for.:confused::up:

[Mr Sparkle]

The source of Israel's technology is ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, where Israel gets its technology from, doesn't change the fact Israel has this technology, it doesn't change the reality on the ground. Even if the US stopped giving weapons to Israel, Israel still has the weapons it already has and they are determined to keep their state and they have the technology to really make the Arab countries pay dearly if they try to destroy israel. That's why needlessly provoking the Israelis (by say kidnapping some their soldeirs) is very foolish.

No, actually, it's quite relevant (see Iraq war, see Afghanistan) it seems like it ends up being very relevant (conservatives back me up here).

oh, and the troops where captured on the lebanese side of the border in South Lebanon, after Hezbolah had made repeated claims that It would captured Israeli soldiers and trade them for prisoners.:up:

[The Overlord]

you guess wrong.


see, this in the end, is the flawed logic that will be the end of us.
some arab regions have been in strife and war for decades, death means little to them anymore, it's not like you can "bomb" them back to the stoneage, that be a leap to the future from some of them.
Israel is going to reap the whirlwind if it doesn't start stepping lightly, no nation is too big to get it's ass handed back it, and as far as societal changes, those can only come ONCE stability is restored, not before.
Israel overstepped and routinely oversteps it's bounds, that's bound to have consequences, they are the relatively new neighbour, they are the ones that should make the rational concetions (sp?) .

Well where do live, because in all likelyhood your nation state has engaged in imperialism or ethnic cleansing, therefore you have profitted of it. the fact is its technology that wins wars now, everything else is irrelevant,especially in total war. Palestinians have much to gain through peacfully tactics, because they don't have a chance in the hell of winning on the battlefield, why is why trying to provoke them into a war is such foolish move. Forget the stone age, with 200 nukes Israel can turn the ME into a radioactive hellscape, that would be the ultimate phyrric victory for the ME, they are far better off trying to deal Israel, rather than destroy it.

[The Overlord]

No, actually, it's quite relevant (see Iraq war, see Afghanistan) it seems like it ends up being very relevant (conservatives back me up here).

oh, and the troops where captured on the lebanese side of the border in South Lebanon, after Hezbolah had made repeated claims that It would captured Israeli soldiers and trade them for prisoners.:up:

Can prove they were captured on the Lebanese side? How does the fact that Israel's technology comes from the uS, change the reality on the ground, at all?

[Mr Sparkle]

Well where do live, because in all likelyhood your nation state has engaged in imperialism or ethnic cleansing, therefore you have profitted of it. the fact is its technology that wins wars now, everything else is irrelevant,especially in total war. Palestinians have much to gain through peacfully tactics, because they don't have a chance in the hell of winning on the battlefield, why is why trying to provoke them into a war is such foolish move. Forget the stone age, with 200 nukes Israel can turn the ME into a radioactive hellscape, that would be the ultimate phyrric victory for the ME, they are far better off trying to deal Israel, rather than destroy it.

Mexico, it was an "empire" for like a couple of years I guess, but no ethnic cleasing.
oh, and Israel nuking it's neighbours will NEVER happen. because Israel would be ****ed for generations to come after it. believe you me.

[Man-Thing]

you act as though Israel is in the same league as Hezzbolah. It's not!!!

When you look at the things Israel has DONE (you know giving up land) in order to seek peace you will see this. I don't know why people just randomly overlook the good things that Israel does for peace. What has Hezzbolah done? What about the PLO?

Every thing that has been done to secure peace in the M.E. has been to the disadvantage of Israel, and when they finally stick up for themselves after being bullied for so long people cry and moan "unfair" "they are being to aggresive". It's all a bunch of bull.

[Mr Sparkle]

Can prove they were captured on the Lebanese side? How does the fact that Israel's technology comes from the uS, change the reality on the ground, at all?


well, over the internet you can't really "proove" anything.
use a translator on this link (http://www.voltairenet.org/article142056.html) though, and there are several others.
i thought it was common knowledge that this was so, I mean, they wehe caught in a lebanese township.

and I don't know about you, but for me, the allies a country has strongly changes the "reality" on the ground.

[cass]

Mexico, it was an "empire" for like a couple of years I guess, but no ethnic cleasing.

Uh, see Spanish Conquest of Mexico. Damn, Spaniards loved killing the natives.

[Mr Sparkle]

you act as though Israel is in the same league as Hezzbolah. It's not!!!

When you look at the things Israel has DONE (you know giving up land) in order to seek peace you will see this. I don't know why people just randomly overlook the good things that Israel does for peace. What has Hezzbolah done? What about the PLO?

Every thing that has been done to secure peace in the M.E. has been to the disadvantage of Israel, and when they finally stick up for themselves after being bullied for so long people cry and moan "unfair" "they are being to aggresive". It's all a bunch of bull.


:rolleyes:

oh man-thing, are you kidding me? do you really know the kinds of things Israel did before the oh-so generous "giving up" of land (that wasn't theirs)
like I said, what about the refugee camp raids and the people killed in the demolitions??? what do they not count to you?
here's the thing, I don't think Either government is innocent, however, I think that civillians are.
can you tell me how sending troops into a foreign country after being warned that they would be captures classifies as "being bullied"????
and then engaging into a wholesale slaughter of civillians since "well, we're bound to hit some terrorists sooner or later"

are you kidding me?

pfht! pro-life indeed.

[Mr Sparkle]

Uh, see Spanish Conquest of Mexico. Damn, Spaniards loved killing the natives.

uh, that would be applicable if i like, lived in spain and stuff. :up:

[cass]

uh, that would be applicable if i like, lived in spain and stuff. :up:

Happened in your country.

[Mr Sparkle]

Happened in your country.

:rolleyes: yeah, I guess the Jews also "profitted" from ethnic cleansing , I get it now.

[Mr Sparkle]

double post.......:mad:

[The Overlord]

Mexico, it was an "empire" for like a couple of years I guess, but no ethnic cleasing.
oh, and Israel nuking it's neighbours will NEVER happen. because Israel would be ****ed for generations to come after it. believe you me.

I'm no expert on Mexican history, but hasn't modern Mexico created by the Spainish who had a brutual reputation for conquest and volence, even amongst other imperial powers, modern Mexico was built through their bloody methods. Even going a little further down the history shaft, Aztec empire was once a part of Mexico and that civilization engaged in human sacerfice. Even if modern Mexico, that there certain groups of natives like the Zapatistas who have left excluded and thus has been cause of stryfe in modern Mexico. Am I correct in these assumptions or not.

Every country has a bloodly and dark history, no country is truly innocent.

I never said the Israelis would nuke the ME at the drop of a hat, but it could happen if the Arab countries declare an open war to destroy Israel, if Israel is about to be destroyed by would they care about international opinion. It is much better to try and come to understanding with Israel, rather than trying to destroy.

[Mr Sparkle]

I'm no expert on Mexican history, but hasn't modern Mexico created by the Spainish who had a brutual reputation for conquest and volence, even amongst other imperial powers, modern Mexico was built through their bloody methods. Even going a little further down the history shaft, Aztec empire was once a part of Mexico and that civilization engaged in human sacerfice. Even if modern Mexico, that there certain groups of natives like the Zapatistas who have left excluded and thus has been cause of stryfe in modern Mexico. Am I correct in these assumptions or not.

Every country has a bloodly and dark history, no country is truly innocent.

I never said the Israelis would nuke the ME at the drop of a hat, but it could happen if the Arab countries declare an open war to destroy Israel, if Israel is about to be destroyed by would they care about international opinion. It is much better to try and come to understanding with Israel, rather than trying to destroy.


no one said any country was.
just the way you initially stated this rather simple thought was confusing, since you spoke of three specific countries as having profitted from ethnic cleasing.

p.s. the Zapatistas are abou the poor, not about ethnicity, their leader is a formerly wealthy and college educated man.

as far as Israel, yes, you are correct, and perhaps Israel should stop engaging in the tactics it has for the last few years, then perhaps.
like I said, it's not about other countries stopping their attacks on Israel, it's about everybody stopping their attacks.

[AnimeJune]

Wow - if someone had come up to me and said, "One day, there's going to be a discussion about the Israeli-Lebanese conflict in the Middle East - and in the end, everyone's going to be whining about solar power and water-fuelled vehicles", I would have said - :eek: "HEY! YOU POST ON THE HYPE TOO???"

God bless you guys, for keepin' it real. :rolleyes:

[The Overlord]

no one said any country was.
just the way you initially stated this rather simple thought was confusing, since you spoke of three specific countries as having profitted from ethnic cleasing.

p.s. the Zapatistas are abou the poor, not about ethnicity, their leader is a formerly wealthy and college educated man.

as far as Israel, yes, you are correct, and perhaps Israel should stop engaging in the tactics it has for the last few years, then perhaps.
like I said, it's not about other countries stopping their attacks on Israel, it's about everybody stopping their attacks.

I brought up the examples of the US, Canada and Australia, because some on this thread suggested that Israel didn't have a right to exist because it was created ethnic cleansing, but since those three countries were created by ethnic cleansing they don't have a right to exist either and since people making those arguements came generally from those who live in one of those countries, so thought to was a double standard that they didn't pratice what they preached and suceeded their nation to displaced natives. Also lets face it the Arabs took the land from the Byzantine empire, so their living on stolen land as well. Like i said the land really belongs to the Caanites, so neither side truly owns that land.

[FlameHead]

Wow - if someone had come up to me and said, "One day, there's going to be a discussion about the Israeli-Lebanese conflict in the Middle East - and in the end, everyone's going to be whining about solar power and water-fuelled vehicles", I would have said - :eek: "HEY! YOU POST ON THE HYPE TOO???"

God bless you guys, for keepin' it real. :rolleyes:

You sometimes cannot control the flow of conversation and just end up riding the wave without realling thinking about it. That's how most conversations go, in fact.

[Jolie_Desastre]

i just got back yesterday. i was gonna post a whole thread about my experience. where i was when it started( the capturing not how israel and lebanon first began their rift) the bombings, the evacuation. i'm gonna wait till my laptop gets back from the shop and i even have pictures of the evacuation. when i make my thread feel free to ask any questions about the evacuation or whatever you want to know

peace/salaam/shalom

[JLBats]

i just got back yesterday. i was gonna post a whole thread about my experience. where i was when it started( the capturing not how israel and lebanon first began their rift) the bombings, the evacuation. i'm gonna wait till my laptop gets back from the shop and i even have pictures of the evacuation. when i make my thread feel free to ask any questions about the evacuation or whatever you want to know

peace/salaam/shalom

Oh, Jolie, thank God you're okay:up:

[Jolie_Desastre]

:D you guys have been really supportive

[jaguarr]

Glad you're safe, Jolie. :up:

jag

[Mr Sparkle]

Wow - if someone had come up to me and said, "One day, there's going to be a discussion about the Israeli-Lebanese conflict in the Middle East - and in the end, everyone's going to be whining about solar power and water-fuelled vehicles", I would have said - :eek: "HEY! YOU POST ON THE HYPE TOO???"

God bless you guys, for keepin' it real. :rolleyes:


Wow, way to inject insight with that post! awesome way to put the thread back on track.
:rolleyes: X billion :down

[Mr Sparkle]

I brought up the examples of the US, Canada and Australia, because some on this thread suggested that Israel didn't have a right to exist because it was created ethnic cleansing, but since those three countries were created by ethnic cleansing they don't have a right to exist either and since people making those arguements came generally from those who live in one of those countries, so thought to was a double standard that they didn't pratice what they preached and suceeded their nation to displaced natives. Also lets face it the Arabs took the land from the Byzantine empire, so their living on stolen land as well. Like i said the land really belongs to the Caanites, so neither side truly owns that land.

hmmm, I think that ethnic cleansing has nothing to do with Israel's right to exist, also, I think that brokenm promises made to the arab sections of the former Ottoman empire are very material to the issue, plus the fact that the Israel affair happened some 60 years ago, all other matters are rather long gone for this discussion.
Israel as a country was a poor exercise in planning, or perhaps a really good exercise depends on how machiavelian you believe the powers that be are.
however, Israel has been strongarming the area for some time now, and though, I believe that in fact by now all the other countries should just deal with it, Israel should not be adding to their discontempt by , you know know, killing their unnarmed women and children.
see, nukes and great armies are great at targetting countries, despite what the Bush admin. tells the world, there really is no way to "fight terror", that always reminds me of the "war on drugs"that they had some years ago, look how great that one turned out :up:
again, when one looks at the situation as it has developed , taking into account the Israeli incursion into south lebanon, and then a claim the Hezbolah had crossed into Israel to take 2 soldiers, well, that was pretty fishy from the start.
the fact is, that this has all the makings of a cover story to justify perhaps the retaking of south lebanon, perhaps, because frankly it all seems too convenient.
I have a hard time believing that Israel can really expect the rest of the world to listen to this "right to exist"diatribe while it bombs the **** out of lebanon for something the lebanese didn't even do.
we must remove all "them and us"mentality from the ecuation and see things for what they are.

[War Lord]

:D you guys have been really supportive

I've tried my best, little sister.

[War Lord]

no, not really, it has to give the same "right to exist" it so eloquently pleads for.:confused::up:

It does, but their foes don't give Israel the same consideration.

[Jolie_Desastre]

thanks guys :O

[squeekness]

I don't really know you but I am still happy that you and others made it out okay. I'm sure it must have been very scary for you. I'm glad you're all right. :)

[Jolie_Desastre]

thanks. i've been hearing a lot about the evacuies and their experiences on the news. i just want my laptop to hurry up and get here so i can tell you guys about it and show the pictures

[raybia]

Salaam Little sister!

Very happy that you and your family are doing well. :)

[Jolie_Desastre]

Salaam Little sister!

Very happy that you and your family are doing well. :)

shookran ;)

i'm happy too.

[Mr Sparkle]

It does, but their foes don't give Israel the same consideration.

No, Warlord, it doesn't, it routinely engaged in little wars and then tried to take land from it's foes, also it raided refugee camps taking women, children and young men with no charges, it has killed many in demolitions for it's expansion.
how exactly is that recognizing another's right to exist?
LOL, I don't get it, people like you often use the "they have been taught to hate" routine to justify the actions of a government you happen to like.
remember the kids painting little messages in Israeli bombs? wasn' that cute? how about the fact that all Israelis have to go through military training at one point or another? geee, that seems really peaceful, specially for a country that knows of it's superiority (since, like they said about lebanon's lack of an armed force "we own the sky, we own the night")
yeah, that sounds like a poor little victim to me.

and again, the 2 Israeli troops where captured in south lebanon, what the **** where they doing there? what would Canada do if it found US soldiers near Toronto?

:rolleyes:

[The Overlord]

No, Warlord, it doesn't, it routinely engaged in little wars and then tried to take land from it's foes, also it raided refugee camps taking women, children and young men with no charges, it has killed many in demolitions for it's expansion.
how exactly is that recognizing another's right to exist?
LOL, I don't get it, people like you often use the "they have been taught to hate" routine to justify the actions of a government you happen to like.
remember the kids painting little messages in Israeli bombs? wasn' that cute? how about the fact that all Israelis have to go through military training at one point or another? geee, that seems really peaceful, specially for a country that knows of it's superiority (since, like they said about lebanon's lack of an armed force "we own the sky, we own the night")
yeah, that sounds like a poor little victim to me.

and again, the 2 Israeli troops where captured in south lebanon, what the **** where they doing there? what would Canada do if it found US soldiers near Toronto?

:rolleyes:

I saw a CBC news report that said the Hezbollah fighters into Israel to capture the soldiers, are you saying your sources are more trustworthy than the CBC? Also if your going to say the CBC has some evil, right wing agenda, I am going to laugh in your face.

[Mr Sparkle]

I saw a CBC news report that said the Hezbollah fighters into Israel to capture the soldiers, are you saying your sources are more trustworthy than the CBC? Also if your going to say the CBC has some evil, right wing agenda, I am going to laugh in your face.

LOL, no, I'm saying simply that the wealthy can get away with distorting the truth.
that goes for people AND countries.
when the incident first came about, it was reported that they (the israelis) had been captured over a skirmish near the lebanon border in south lebanon
(a Hezbolah controlled region) prior to this, I had read reports that Hezbolah had said that any and all Israeli sodiers in Lebanon would be captured and traded for prisoners.
let's use our logic here.
what's more probable, a paramilitary force going into foreign terrory to "kidnap" soldiers.
or an army ( a really well trained, really well armed army) going into what it considers "enemy held territory" (otherwise explain the "skirmish" part) and getting captured.
see? I don't think Israel is right or left wing, if Jhon Kerry was president he would be deffending Israel as much as Bush is, make no mistake on that.
like I said, this is about a wealthy country doing what it wants.
however, my information comes from MANY sources, many of them close to the region. and if you want to dispute all the things I read PRIOR to this being called a war (which it's not, it's an invasion) then, I would have to laugh in YOUR face.

HAHA!

[The Overlord]

LOL, no, I'm saying simply that the wealthy can get away with distorting the truth.
that goes for people AND countries.
when the incident first came about, it was reported that they (the israelis) had been captured over a skirmish near the lebanon border in south lebanon
(a Hezbolah controlled region) prior to this, I had read reports that Hezbolah had said that any and all Israeli sodiers in Lebanon would be captured and traded for prisoners.
let's use our logic here.
what's more probable, a paramilitary force going into foreign terrory to "kidnap" soldiers.
or an army ( a really well trained, really well armed army) going into what it considers "enemy held territory" (otherwise explain the "skirmish" part) and getting captured.
see? I don't think Israel is right or left wing, if Jhon Kerry was president he would be deffending Israel as much as Bush is, make no mistake on that.
like I said, this is about a wealthy country doing what it wants.
however, my information comes from MANY sources, many of them close to the region. and if you want to dispute all the things I read PRIOR to this being called a war (which it's not, it's an invasion) then, I would have to laugh in YOUR face.

HAHA!

Which sources are you talking about and what makes them more reliable then the CBC? What makes your sources unbiased? No offesnse but this had better be good, just showing me some guy's website isn't going to impress me.

[Mr Sparkle]

Which sources are you talking about and what makes them more reliable then the CBC? What makes your sources unbiased? No offesnse but this had better be good, just showing me some guy's website isn't going to impress me.

well, first, it would seem you are under the rather misguided idea that I give a "flying ****" about impressing you. (if you missed the hint, I could care less)
secondly, I don't think I said that they where more "reliable" than CBC, you are the only one making asumptions as to reliability.
in the first hours after 9-11 good morning America and MSNBC told a story about a New York policeman who survived the wreckage after "riding the collapse" that turned out to be false. this does not make MSNBC unreliable, it merely had faulty info, and news organizations are victim to it all the time.
do yourself a favor and google it. see what if anything you come up with, the information I have didn't just come from the Internet, and frankly, I'll be damned if I'm going to scan and host and image and rip sound from archives I have no access to and stuff for your benefit.


sorry.

[The Overlord]

hmmm, I think that ethnic cleansing has nothing to do with Israel's right to exist, also, I think that brokenm promises made to the arab sections of the former Ottoman empire are very material to the issue, plus the fact that the Israel affair happened some 60 years ago, all other matters are rather long gone for this discussion.
Israel as a country was a poor exercise in planning, or perhaps a really good exercise depends on how machiavelian you believe the powers that be are.
however, Israel has been strongarming the area for some time now, and though, I believe that in fact by now all the other countries should just deal with it, Israel should not be adding to their discontempt by , you know know, killing their unnarmed women and children.
see, nukes and great armies are great at targetting countries, despite what the Bush admin. tells the world, there really is no way to "fight terror", that always reminds me of the "war on drugs"that they had some years ago, look how great that one turned out :up:
again, when one looks at the situation as it has developed , taking into account the Israeli incursion into south lebanon, and then a claim the Hezbolah had crossed into Israel to take 2 soldiers, well, that was pretty fishy from the start.
the fact is, that this has all the makings of a cover story to justify perhaps the retaking of south lebanon, perhaps, because frankly it all seems too convenient.
I have a hard time believing that Israel can really expect the rest of the world to listen to this "right to exist"diatribe while it bombs the **** out of lebanon for something the lebanese didn't even do.
we must remove all "them and us"mentality from the ecuation and see things for what they are.

We have put everything in historical context, perhaps there were mistakes made in creating Israel in 1948, but this occured shortly after Holocaust, so I doubt the Jewish community wasn't interested in patience at that point, they wanted their state right away, to protect them from stuff like the Holocaust. So yes mistakes would have been made, but that's just human nature, given the circumstances. Look the reality Israel exists, its going away and people give to deal with that.

Also let's face it, its not like the Islamic countries are saints either in this mess. Before the current crisis Israel did pull what of Lebanon and Gaza, I think those actions would entitle Israel to some diplomatic rerpesct from the other countries in the region, which did not happen. The Palestinians have elected a reactionary party which does not recongonize Israel, how is the peace process supposed to move forward if one side is refusing to compromise at all and is controlled by reactionaries? To takes two to tango, can provide any evidence that the Islamic states in the region have making any moves to towards peace?

[The Overlord]

well, first, it would seem you are under the rather misguided idea that I give a "flying ****" about impressing you. (if you missed the hint, I could care less)
secondly, I don't think I said that they where more "reliable" than CBC, you are the only one making asumptions as to reliability.
in the first hours after 9-11 good morning America and MSNBC told a story about a New York policeman who survived the wreckage after "riding the collapse" that turned out to be false. this does not make MSNBC unreliable, it merely had faulty info, and news organizations are victim to it all the time.
do yourself a favor and google it. see what if anything you come up with, the information I have didn't just come from the Internet, and frankly, I'll be damned if I'm going to scan and host and image and rip sound from archives I have no access to and stuff for your benefit.


sorry.

If trying to win a debate, you can't make very controversal claims without providing a basis for it, the claim becomes irrelevant, your claim is meaningless unless you provided some sort of legitimate source for it, otherwise why should anyone believe your claim. Its like your trying to write an essay, but you have no foot notes (or your using dubious sources that no university would recongonize). If your going to make an arguement with no basis, why should anyone believe it?

[Mr Sparkle]

If trying to win a debate, you can't make very controversal claims without providing a basis for it, the claim becomes irrelevant, your claim is meaningless unless you provided some sort of legitimate source for it, otherwise why should anyone believe your claim. Its like your trying to write an essay, but you have no foot notes (or your using dubious sources that no university would recongonize). If your going to make an arguement with no basis, why should anyone believe it?


Guy, I'm not your Wikkipedia, I already provided a link for the info a page back ( Or so ), wether you believe it's reliable or not, I simply do not care. it's not a controversial claim, it's what happened. it's odd, but I can almost see a pro-israel slant in your arguments, more than a balanced approach to the situation.
the whole story is messed up from the get go. in the words of the great Milhouse, ask your self this about the Israelis "Why would they lie? what would they have to gain?"

[The Overlord]

Guy, I'm not your Wikkipedia, I already provided a link for the info a page back ( Or so ), wether you believe it's reliable or not, I simply do not care. it's not a controversial claim, it's what happened. it's odd, but I can almost see a pro-israel slant in your arguments, more than a balanced approach to the situation.
the whole story is messed up from the get go. in the words of the great Milhouse, ask your self this about the Israelis "Why would they lie? what would they have to gain?"

First of all, unfortunally the link was in French and I only know a very small amount of French. secondly I don't see how that site was supposed to be more reliable than the CBC news, seemed like some guy's website and looked really bias according to som e of the links I saw in English. Looks like you didn't research this very well and claiming that is arguement is true, seems to be based on your own arrogance, rather than anything else.

[Mr Sparkle]

First of all, unfortunally the link was in French and I only know a very small amount of French. secondly I don't see how that site was supposed to be more reliable than the CBC news, seemed like some guy's website and looked really bias according to som e of the links I saw in English. Looks like you didn't research this very well and claiming that is arguement is true, seems to be based on your own arrogance, rather than anything else.

LOL. you're right, I didn't research this, at all.
I actually read accounts when it happened, and I like to get my news from various sources so I don't end up looking like an idiot going on about the CBC over and over.
seems the only one arrogant here is you sport. you appear unable to use google and keep jumping back to this CBC article, seems that's "research" enough for you.
and i'm curious as to how Voltaire.net is biased, because it's not your version (the version you wish to believe)?
there has been an insane ammount of conflicting information about this.
yet you choose one single outlet?

again sport, seems the arrogance is on your part not mine.

[The Overlord]

LOL. you're right, I didn't research this, at all.
I actually read accounts when it happened, and I like to get my news from various sources so I don't end up looking like an idiot going on about the CBC over and over.
seems the only one arrogant here is you sport. you appear unable to use google and keep jumping back to this CBC article, seems that's "research" enough for you.
and i'm curious as to how Voltaire.net is biased, because it's not your version (the version you wish to believe)?
there has been an insane ammount of conflicting information about this.
yet you choose one single outlet?

again sport, seems the arrogance is on your part not mine.

It wasn't an article, it was a news report, when they reported on the sceen of the kidnapping which happened on the Israeli side of the border. Are saying that CBC news is so sloppy that they didn't do any research and the report at sceen was at completely the wrong place? They would have to be complete idiots to do that. Far logical is your site doesn't know what its talking about, let me ask you how many years as professional journalist does the staff at Voltaire.net have, how many accomplishments can you say their research department has had?

You debate like jonty does, claim to only represent truth, make a dubious claim, have an unprofessional websites back it up, arrogantly assume that your beliefs are part of a universal truth and when evbidence is present ahgainst your claim, you both act like victims and say that every source of information, except your own, is baised.

[Mr Sparkle]

It wasn't an article, it was a news report, when they reported on the sceen of the kidnapping which happened on the Israeli side of the border. Are saying that CBC news is so sloppy that they didn't do any research and the report at sceen was at completely the wrong place? They would have to be complete idiots to do that. Far logical is your site doesn't know what its talking about, let me ask you how many years as professional journalist does the staff at Voltaire.net have, how many accomplishments can you say their research department has had?

You debate like jonty does, claim to only represent truth, make a dubious claim, have an unprofessional websites back it up, arrogantly assume that your beliefs are part of a universal truth and when evbidence is present ahgainst your claim, you both act like victims and say that every source of information, except your own, is baised.


LOL, apparently YOU debate like Jonty does, I asked you a question sport, how is "voltaire.net" a biased newsource????, you said you didn't even understand it. and I saw nothing on the page that painted it as biased.

but gee, didn't CBS get in trouble about 2 years ago with some memos, and some "unreliable" and "unprofessional" website turned out to be the evidence that would condem CBS regardless of it's many "years of jounalistic professionalism".

HA! and the best part was where I told you, "Google it"but you want me to do your thinking for you.
yeah, Overlord you know what, if it's on a major news network, IT HAS TO BE TRUE.
BTW sport, I'm not a victim, I haven't acted like a victim, I have been pretty agressive in my claims, and all you have provided is your borderline net-fellatio of the CBC staff.

big whoop.

do you even know in what township they where captured, go look for it on CBC, let's see if they can come up with anything short of "cross the lebanon border"however, I can tell you that they where captured in Aitaa al-Chaab look that one up in a map if you please.
LOL. do you even know how heavily guarded the south lebanon border IS????
but of course, never you mind about the fact that Neither Hezbollah nor the IDF have any reason to confirm (or deny) this, Hezbollah wants to further the impression that it can enter Israel and kidnap Israeli soldiers at will in order to impress it's followers, and of course an Israeli incursion into Lebanon sans an attack upon Israel would be an illegal trespass upon another nation's sovereign territory. :rolleyes: plus a billion.

[War Lord]

No, Warlord, it doesn't, it routinely engaged in little wars and then tried to take land from it's foes, also it raided refugee camps taking women, children and young men with no charges, it has killed many in demolitions for it's expansion.
how exactly is that recognizing another's right to exist?
LOL, I don't get it, people like you often use the "they have been taught to hate" routine to justify the actions of a government you happen to like.
remember the kids painting little messages in Israeli bombs? wasn' that cute? how about the fact that all Israelis have to go through military training at one point or another? geee, that seems really peaceful, specially for a country that knows of it's superiority (since, like they said about lebanon's lack of an armed force "we own the sky, we own the night")
yeah, that sounds like a poor little victim to me.

and again, the 2 Israeli troops where captured in south lebanon, what the **** where they doing there? what would Canada do if it found US soldiers near Toronto?

:rolleyes:

Actually, you're incorrect. If you win land in a war, it's yours to keep.

And Israel has never started any of its wars.

Show me where Israel has taken women and children without charges. That's quite the charge and you better be able to back it up.

All any of the other countries have to do is recognize Israel's right to exist without harrassment and it will be peace breaking out all over the place.

Kids can paint whatever they want on whatever they want, that's an irrelevant point.

So do the Swedes go through military service for two years. If you're a small country with everybody needing to play a part in protecting the country, it's best that as many able bodied people participate as possible. It also minimizes risk, because the better an individual can protect himself, the less he's dependent upon the government to protect him.

Most reasonable news sources has it that the soldiers were kidnapped, which is an act of war because you need to cross international borders to kidnap another country's citizens.

[War Lord]

LOL, apparently YOU debate like Jonty does, I asked you a question sport, how is "voltaire.net" a biased newsource????, you said you didn't even understand it. and I saw nothing on the page that painted it as biased.

but gee, didn't CBS get in trouble about 2 years ago with some memos, and some "unreliable" and "unprofessional" website turned out to be the evidence that would condem CBS regardless of it's many "years of jounalistic professionalism".

HA! and the best part was where I told you, "Google it"but you want me to do your thinking for you.
yeah, Overlord you know what, if it's on a major news network, IT HAS TO BE TRUE.
BTW sport, I'm not a victim, I haven't acted like a victim, I have been pretty agressive in my claims, and all you have provided is your borderline net-fellatio of the CBC staff.

big whoop.

do you even know in what township they where captured, go look for it on CBC, let's see if they can come up with anything short of "cross the lebanon border"however, I can tell you that they where captured in Aitaa al-Chaab look that one up in a map if you please.
LOL. do you even know how heavily guarded the south lebanon border IS????
but of course, never you mind about the fact that Neither Hezbollah nor the IDF have any reason to confirm (or deny) this, Hezbollah wants to further the impression that it can enter Israel and kidnap Israeli soldiers at will in order to impress it's followers, and of course an Israeli incursion into Lebanon sans an attack upon Israel would be an illegal trespass upon another nation's sovereign territory. :rolleyes: plus a billion.

I just went to Voltaire.net.

It looks as reliable as www.Mrsparklestakeonthenews.net

[hippie_hunter]

I'm sad that I wasn't here for the start of this thread :(

[Speedball]

Actually, you're incorrect. If you win land in a war, it's yours to keep.

And Israel has never started any of its wars.

Show me where Israel has taken women and children without charges. That's quite the charge and you better be able to back it up.

All any of the other countries have to do is recognize Israel's right to exist without harrassment and it will be peace breaking out all over the place.

Kids can paint whatever they want on whatever they want, that's an irrelevant point.

So do the Swedes go through military service for two years. If you're a small country with everybody needing to play a part in protecting the country, it's best that as many able bodied people participate as possible. It also minimizes risk, because the better an individual can protect himself, the less he's dependent upon the government to protect him.

Most reasonable news sources has it that the soldiers were kidnapped, which is an act of war because you need to cross international borders to kidnap another country's citizens.

Wait a second...
Did he say they were in Lebanon?
They were not, they were in Northern Israel, near the Village of Zar'it

[War Lord]

Wait a second...
Did he say they were in Lebanon?
They were not, they were in Northern Israel, near the Village of Zar'it

What's fifty miles between friends?

[Mr Sparkle]

Actually, you're incorrect. If you win land in a war, it's yours to keep.

And Israel has never started any of its wars.

Show me where Israel has taken women and children without charges. That's quite the charge and you better be able to back it up.

All any of the other countries have to do is recognize Israel's right to exist without harrassment and it will be peace breaking out all over the place.

Kids can paint whatever they want on whatever they want, that's an irrelevant point.

So do the Swedes go through military service for two years. If you're a small country with everybody needing to play a part in protecting the country, it's best that as many able bodied people participate as possible. It also minimizes risk, because the better an individual can protect himself, the less he's dependent upon the government to protect him.

Most reasonable news sources has it that the soldiers were kidnapped, which is an act of war because you need to cross international borders to kidnap another country's citizens.

1.- when the dispute is over land or just if you win the war? which specific case?

2.- actually, provocation is kinda starting.

3.- Duh, the last time they released Prisoners while bartering with Hezbolah for hostages they where women and men under 18 (technical children) and they where being held without charges taken from refugee camp raids.
this time Hezbolah wanted to negotiate for the same hostages, except it didn't go as well. oh, and it's not a charge, it's kinda a widely know fact.

4.- and Israel has to extend the same courtesy otherwise there will never be peace, what I'm saying is that both parties are at fault, what you're saying is that Israel is some poor victim that has never done anything wrong, and you'd have to ignore a whole of history to claim that. :(

5.- Like I told you before, it's quite relevant, if these where Palestinian or lebanese kids you'd be all over it saying how they are taught to hate from an eraly age and so forth. it's two faced, plain and simple.

6.- same point as above, if these where countries other than Israel you'd be up in arms about their war like attitude.

7.- Most reasonable news sources couldn't say anything else than "during skirmishes at the border"the first couple of days, if you knew anythging about the region you'd know that Israel has a stringer military presence there than any other part of lebanon, Hezbolah crossing the border would've been suicidal, let alone, crossing, "kidnapping"soldiers and crossing over again. in fact, the initial reports all over said "in the border with Israel"
iy flies in the face of all logic.

I just went to Voltaire.net.

It looks as reliable as www.Mrsparklestakeonthenews.net (http://www.mrsparklestakeonthenews.net/)

well, it's no newsmax, plus, I'll add one thing, voltaire.net is one of many newsources that reported the censorship in the Israeli media (which reported of the lebanon raid), because yes, Israel censors it's media.
but alas, not everything is on the net people, try reading a newspaper when things are actually happening once in a while.

What's fifty miles between friends?

LOL, that's exactly what I keep saying :up:

[Speedball]

Paranoia Ensues!

[Mr Sparkle]

Paranoia Ensues!

:confused: LOL. do you even know what Paranoia means???? you poor, poor thing :):up:

[Speedball]

:confused: LOL. do you even know what Paranoia means???? you poor, poor thing :):up:
Yes I do happen to know what it means.
You fear for yourself, and feel threatened by certain things.
All I see is a person feeling threatened because they are wrong sometimes.

[Gamma Ray]

I bet that if any of you Hezbollah supporters went to Israel your attitudes would quickly change. But I'm sure none of you have actually been to the middle east before.

Kainedamo, you're so f-ing anti-semitic, it's ridiculous!

[Galactus]

TYRE, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel said it mistakenly destroyed a four-story building near a Hezbollah rocket-launching site in Qana, Lebanon, on Sunday where the Red Cross said 54 people died, including 37 children.

A Red Cross official said the airstrikes hit a residential building that housed refugees, which Israel said was near Hezbollah rocket launching sites.

"The building itself was not targeted," Israeli government spokeswoman Miri Eisen told CNN. "The building itself was next to the rocket-launcher sites and we are targeting all of those rocket-launcher sites. This was a mistake and we will have a full investigation."

Outrage over the attack sparked protests in Beirut, and in Jerusalem, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice postponed talks in the Lebanese capital regarding a cease-fire proposal. (Watch how angry protesters use rocks and poles to break into U.N. compound -- 2:30)

Israeli aircraft hit the four-story residential building in Qana early Sunday, Lebanese army sources said.

Video broadcast by Arab TV showed the bloodied bodies of women and children who appeared to be wearing night clothes. Many of the bodies were under rubble in the basement of the building.

The IDF said that residents had been warned to leave by radio announcements and by air-leaflets because it was a combat area.

France, Jordan, and the European Union said the attack underscored the need for an immediate cease-fire in the 19-day conflict between Israel and Lebanon-based Hezbollah militia, which began after Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on July 12. (Full story)

In Beirut, hundreds of protestors angry about the attack broke into the United Nations compound on Sunday afternoon. Video of the scene showed people smashing glass walls protecting the U.N. building.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz told Israel Defense Forces Sunday to investigate the Qana attack, the minister's spokesman said.

Hours after the attack, Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora called for an immediate, unconditional cease-fire and an international probe of the Qana attack.

Rice said she was "deeply saddened" by the deaths and would continue her peace mission.

"I will continue to meet with Israeli officials as we work to bring in place the elements the necessary to put an end to the conflict," Rice said during a Jerusalem news conference. "My work is here." (Full story)

'We can't do anything for them'
A Lebanese emergency official -- speaking live on Al-Arabiya TV -- said rescuers lacked the heavy equipment to remove people still trapped under the collapsed building.

"We can't do anything for them under the rubble because we do not have the right equipment," the unidentified official said.

Red Cross worker Sami Yazbak, who was helping to pull bodies from the building, said many of the children who were sleeping inside were handicapped.

IDF spokesman Jacob Dalal told CNN that Hezbollah has used the village to fire rockets into western Galilee, including the coastal town of Nahariya. Dalal said Israel was exercising its right to defend itself with the airstrikes.

Dalal said "there was a specific Hezbollah asset" the IDF was targeting. "We have been hitting rocket launchers from that village for several days," Dalal said.

"Clearly, we did not know the civilians were in the way," he said.

Dalal said Hezbollah turned the village into a war zone.

"Hezbollah has chosen this as their launching ground for their attacks on us intentionally endangering their civilians because they know that something like this is liable to happen," Dalal said.

Qana, 10 miles east of the southern Lebanese coastal city of Tyre, was the location of an attack by Israeli forces 10 years ago in which more than 100 Lebanese refugees were killed. On April 18, 1996, Israeli artillery pounded a U.N. center crowded with civilians. Israel later said the attack was a mistake. At that time, Israel accused Hezbollah militants of hiding behind civilians.

Hezbollah launches dozens of rockets
Also Sunday, Hezbollah militants launched 47 Katyusha rockets into northern Israel, wounding 10 people, Israeli police said.

Israeli Defense Forces said Sunday its ground troops were operating in the border village of Taiyba in southeastern Lebanon, an area Israel said Hezbollah uses to launch rockets.

Troops have killed at least three Hezbollah militants and found stockpiles of rocket-propelled grenades, anti-tank missiles, a cannon with shells and a machine gun, IDF said.

IDF did not report any Israeli casualties.

On Saturday, Rice returned to the Middle East to try to negotiate an end to hostilities in the region. (Watch how Rice faces a difficult diplomatic puzzle -- 2:16)

But her task became more difficult Sunday when Lebanon said it would not welcome Rice to Beirut for negotiations unless there was an immediate cease-fire.

"There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional cease-fire as well as an international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now," Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora told a news conference in Beirut.

After the announcement, Rice cancelled her planned visit.

A U.S. official in Washington called the decision by the Lebanese prime minister "unfortunate."

Rice had dinner with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert late Saturday, according to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv.

Meanwhile, France on Saturday circulated a draft U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an immediate cessation of hostilities in the Mideast and laying the foundation for the deployment of a multinational force aimed at supporting the Lebanese army in disarming Hezbollah, according to diplomatic sources.

Also Saturday, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, in a videotaped message broadcast on the militant group's television station, said the Israeli effort to clear southern Lebanon of Hezbollah is "doomed to failure" and that Rice's return to the region is part of an American plan to impose its will on the Middle East. His videotaped message was broadcast on Hezbollah's television station.

[squeekness]

You don't suppose Hezbollah deliberately placed those civilians next to their miliary targets do you? Just to get sympathetic press?

[Gamma Ray]

The difference between Israel and Hezbollah is that when Israel hits a civilian building they deal with their mistake. When Hezbollah hits a civilian building, they rejoice their "direct hit".

[kainedamo]

How in the flying heck am I anti-semetic?

If I were to travel to Israel, i'd be all like "hmm, the media is completely ignoring the civillian casualties!!".

[Mr Sparkle]

Yes I do happen to know what it means.
You fear for yourself, and feel threatened by certain things.
All I see is a person feeling threatened because they are wrong sometimes.

:confused:, that's not "paranoia":down, uh , everybody fears for themselves, and feels threatened by certain things.

wtf.......LOL:down

[War Lord]

1.- when the dispute is over land or just if you win the war? which specific case?

2.- actually, provocation is kinda starting.

3.- Duh, the last time they released Prisoners while bartering with Hezbolah for hostages they where women and men under 18 (technical children) and they where being held without charges taken from refugee camp raids.
this time Hezbolah wanted to negotiate for the same hostages, except it didn't go as well. oh, and it's not a charge, it's kinda a widely know fact.

4.- and Israel has to extend the same courtesy otherwise there will never be peace, what I'm saying is that both parties are at fault, what you're saying is that Israel is some poor victim that has never done anything wrong, and you'd have to ignore a whole of history to claim that. :(

5.- Like I told you before, it's quite relevant, if these where Palestinian or lebanese kids you'd be all over it saying how they are taught to hate from an eraly age and so forth. it's two faced, plain and simple.

6.- same point as above, if these where countries other than Israel you'd be up in arms about their war like attitude.

7.- Most reasonable news sources couldn't say anything else than "during skirmishes at the border"the first couple of days, if you knew anythging about the region you'd know that Israel has a stringer military presence there than any other part of lebanon, Hezbolah crossing the border would've been suicidal, let alone, crossing, "kidnapping"soldiers and crossing over again. in fact, the initial reports all over said "in the border with Israel"
iy flies in the face of all logic.

1. Every country out there has got to keep it's land that it won through war. There hasn't been a war, where the victor has to return it's begotten spoils, except Israel.

2. Israel has rarely provoked anybody. They're general policy is to only attack after being attacked.

3. It's kinda a widely known propaganda. Do you have any proof of this?

4. and Israel has, that's why it suffered greatly under Arafat's Intifada. The Intifada only ended after Israel went back into Gaza and put Arafat under lock and key until the day of his death.

5. Actually, only the Palestineans are taught to hate from birth. Israel has a great education system.

6. No, I'm only up in arms about countries that attack without provocation, like all the countries surrounding Israel tends to do. I actually support the philosophy that everybody should serve their country for a few years.

7. They have a stronger military, because it's needed. If they were weak militarily, they'd be dead. Suicidal? That's Hezbollah's specialty. You have heard of suicidal bombings and all that, right? It's likely why the kidnapping succeeded, is because Israel cannot guard their borders strongly all they time, those guys were on patrol, not just standing their waiting for something to happen.

[Mr Sparkle]

LOL, yeah, that makes the lebanese civillians a lot less dead :up:

[kane9321]

oh boy ..look what israel did now

[AnimeJune]

My prayers are with Israel right now, because now other Arab countries like Iran and Syria are finally buckling up to pile on the hurt.

Although, to be honest - how long do you think those countries will be able to stick together without finally dissolving into chaos and backstabbing? :rolleyes:

[Super_Ludacris]

The Israeli army is the dumbest army ever. How you gonna bomb the crap out of a country with innocent civillans over 2 soliders who may or may not be captured by a terriorst (NOT the actual lebenease government). Are they taking a page out of our book when we were looking in Iraq for WMD's?
It kills me that these big sanction armies think they can fight a war with a few cowardly terriorist who do strategic single-man suicide bombs by doing an all-out blitzberg ("Hey we took out the Hezbollah camp with our "Smart Bombs" on that children's nursery!")
And Isarel I get why you mad, you hate terrorists. But so do the muslims who they harm themselves (Iraq, Jordan etc) and how does bombing civillan areas make the situation better?
Plus I figure these Israeli guys are already like the LAPD with the "shoot first, ask question last" mentality. How do you explain them bombing a UN tower several times (that they knew had UN officials) and killing them? Or shooting a peace activist in the head like 4 years ago.

Sad, sad state of affairs and Bush and Blair stay looking like a bunch of idiots not doing anything about it.

[kane9321]

glad ur back and safe jolie

[Mr Sparkle]

1. Every country out there has got to keep it's land that it won through war. There hasn't been a war, where the victor has to return it's begotten spoils, except Israel.

no, not really, only when the war is about land, japan wasn't sivied up after WWII, what "spoils"where they there????
besides, I thought it fought for it's "right to exist"that kind of contrasts what you're saying.

2. Israel has rarely provoked anybody. They're general policy is to only attack after being attacked.

I see that at least you where able to say "rarely" seems that even you know that governments are governements all over the world (or ata least you should :up:
in fact, as prooven many times over, Israel does something that kills civillians, then Osrael investigates, finds itself blameless and everyone is like , "Oh....Ok,carry on then":up:

3. It's kinda a widely known propaganda. Do you have any proof of this?

propaganda? by who? hell even Overlor's much beloved CBC reported on such instances recently

"Israeli tanks and troops began to withdraw from a Gaza refugee camp early Friday after a raid over two days that left at least 15 people dead. (http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/21/gaza-withdrawal.html)
Israeli tanks and troops began to withdraw from a Gaza refugee camp early Friday after a raid over two days that left at least 15 people dead." (http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/21/gaza-withdrawal.html)

and the guardian from 2004

"Israeli forces killed at least 23 Palestinians yesterday on one of the bloodiest days of the intifada, as the army made a rare push into the heart of a heavily defended Gaza refugee camp. (http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1316951,00.html)
A single tank shell claimed seven lives, many of them said by witnesses to be unarmed teenagers. But doctors said it was difficult to tell because the bodies were blown apart. " (http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1316951,00.html)

but yeah, I can see how those links would be propaganda to you (sic).

4. and Israel has, that's why it suffered greatly under Arafat's Intifada. The Intifada only ended after Israel went back into Gaza and put Arafat under lock and key until the day of his death.'

NO, sorry, Israel has NOT, as prooven by just what little information you coul've gathered from the situation before 2000.
in fact, in 1981 Israel was already engaging in "preemptive strikes"that where condemend by Washington (gasp.....)

and more region specific

March 1978: Israel invades to stop Palestinian attacks
1982: Full-scale invasion reaching Beirut; pro-Israel forces massacre Palestinians
May 1983: Israel pulls back, but keeps "security zone"
February 1992: Israeli air strike kills Hezbollah leader
1996: Israel launches "Grapes of Wrath" raids on Hezbollah; 100 civilians die under Israeli shelling of UN base at Qana
May 2000: Israel withdraws troops from Lebanon
January 2004: Prisoner swap between Hezbollah and Israel


5. Actually, only the Palestineans are taught to hate from birth. Israel has a great education system.

LOL, see?

6. No, I'm only up in arms about countries that attack without provocation, like all the countries surrounding Israel tends to do. I actually support the philosophy that everybody should serve their country for a few years.

preemptive strikes and Refuuge camp raids are pretty "suckerpunchy"as afra as anyone is concerned, not to mention taking prisioners and holding them without charges.

"Israel routinely takes Palestinians, Lebanese hostage. In fact, Israel was the only country in the world, in 1997, which legalized hostage-taking. The liberal head of the Israeli High Court, Aharon Barak, he said it's legal, legitimate, under international law to take what he called bargaining chips in order to get prisoners, Israeli prisoners being held by the Lebanese. The decision was reversed in 2000, but Israel continued to hold Lebanese hostages until 2004. So, at worst, Hamas is being accused of what Israel legalized and routinely does." (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/29/1420258)





7. They have a stronger military, because it's needed. If they were weak militarily, they'd be dead. Suicidal? That's Hezbollah's specialty. You have heard of suicidal bombings and all that, right? It's likely why the kidnapping succeeded, is because Israel cannot guard their borders strongly all they time, those guys were on patrol, not just standing their waiting for something to happen.


right, I'm sure that the country that has recently reclared that thye "own the night, and own the sky" was broken through by the Mighty Hezbolah fighting machine (sic) the only reason that Israel lost south lebanon was because they where in Hezbolah's turf as long as we're going into the "it is likely" manner of thinking, to compare a suicide bomber with an operation that has nothing to do with suicide is idiotic, c'mon now Jonty.:down

[Mr Sparkle]

The Israeli army is the dumbest army ever. How you gonna bomb the crap out of a country with innocent civillans over 2 soliders who may or may not be captured by a terriorst (NOT the actual lebenease government). Are they taking a page out of our book when we were looking in Iraq for WMD's?
It kills me that these big sanction armies think they can fight a war with a few cowardly terriorist who do strategic single-man suicide bombs by doing an all-out blitzberg ("Hey we took out the Hezbollah camp with our "Smart Bombs" on that children's nursery!")
And Isarel I get why you mad, you hate terrorists. But so do the muslims who they harm themselves (Iraq, Jordan etc) and how does bombing civillan areas make the situation better?
Plus I figure these Israeli guys are already like the LAPD with the "shoot first, ask question last" mentality. How do you explain them bombing a UN tower several times (that they knew had UN officials) and killing them? Or shooting a peace activist in the head like 4 years ago.

Sad, sad state of affairs and Bush and Blair stay looking like a bunch of idiots not doing anything about it.


Israel went and caught feelings :down :(
good to see you back man, I thought you's escaped this vortex of pointlesness we know as the hype.

[Gamma Ray]

The Israeli army is the dumbest army ever. How you gonna bomb the crap out of a country with innocent civillans over 2 soliders who may or may not be captured by a terriorst (NOT the actual lebenease government).

Lebanon isn't doing anything to get them back so Israel is. If anything, Lebanon is the "dumb" party.

[Super_Ludacris]

I did for a while doing other stuff and I probably wont be on as much as I use to but hey, I got used to posting here for like 4 years so figure if I have time in the day I'll drop my knowledge and set the children of the Hype free from the rendundancy of hermits, nazi-comic-nerd and gestapo mods that cast a shadow on their lives.

[kainedamo]

After some research and watching the news, I don't even consider Hezbollah terrorists. They're more like a militia.

Israel says "disarm and we'll ceasefire", but why the hell should they?

Hezbollah aren't the ones that killed 50 people yesterday. Israel should disarm.

[FlameHead]

5. Actually, only the Palestineans are taught to hate from birth. Israel has a great education system.


Oh yeah, they teach their children wonderful things.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlimage&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg&blobkey=id&blobtable=JPImage&blobwhere=1153291983785&cachecontrol=never&ssbinary=true

Like how to write messages on the bombs they about to kill Lebonons children with.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291980307&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[kainedamo]

Why do you guys even argue with War Lord anymore? The guy does not know what he's talking about and is a right wing extremist with his head in the sand.

Israel can not do anything wrong by Jonty.

[FlameHead]

It's not really an argument we have with Jonty, it's a discussion. For me it is anyway. I think he's a fairly bright person who has the ability to see the light but, refuses it. Sometimes I think he does see the light and is just being a pain in the ass just to be a pain in the ass.

Of course, I could be wrong but, regardless, I like to look at these things as discussions, debates at the very most... not arguments.

[kainedamo]

Here is something very interesting I found out.

According to the Israeli Ministry Of Foreign Affairs, (ttp://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/exeres/9EE216D7-82EF-4274-B80D-6BBD1803E8A7,frameless.htm?NRMODE=Published) prior to the start of the current conlfict, in the last 6 years (since the May 2000 IDF pullout of Lebanon) Hezbollah had only killed 13 soldiers and 7 civilians, wounded 27 soldiers and 7 civilians, and captured three soldiers and two civilians for a grand total of 54 casualties, only 20 of whom were killed, and only 7 civilian deaths.

What strikes me besides the extremely low numbers of this "terrible threat" to Israel is the high ratio or soldiers to civilians injured or killed in these actions.

[The Overlord]

LOL, apparently YOU debate like Jonty does, I asked you a question sport, how is "voltaire.net" a biased newsource????, you said you didn't even understand it. and I saw nothing on the page that painted it as biased.

but gee, didn't CBS get in trouble about 2 years ago with some memos, and some "unreliable" and "unprofessional" website turned out to be the evidence that would condem CBS regardless of it's many "years of jounalistic professionalism".

HA! and the best part was where I told you, "Google it"but you want me to do your thinking for you.
yeah, Overlord you know what, if it's on a major news network, IT HAS TO BE TRUE.
BTW sport, I'm not a victim, I haven't acted like a victim, I have been pretty agressive in my claims, and all you have provided is your borderline net-fellatio of the CBC staff.

big whoop.

do you even know in what township they where captured, go look for it on CBC, let's see if they can come up with anything short of "cross the lebanon border"however, I can tell you that they where captured in Aitaa al-Chaab look that one up in a map if you please.
LOL. do you even know how heavily guarded the south lebanon border IS????
but of course, never you mind about the fact that Neither Hezbollah nor the IDF have any reason to confirm (or deny) this, Hezbollah wants to further the impression that it can enter Israel and kidnap Israeli soldiers at will in order to impress it's followers, and of course an Israeli incursion into Lebanon sans an attack upon Israel would be an illegal trespass upon another nation's sovereign territory. :rolleyes: plus a billion.

Well let's see the BBC has also reported that the Israeli soldiers were captured in Israel, not Lebanon: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5196800.stm

That's two major professional news organizations, with no history of right wing or pro Israeli agendas, that confirm that your theory is wrong. What did they both get taken over by "evil right wing Jews" or something? All you have given me is some guy's website and a bunch sources you refuse to name, most major news organizations around the world are stating your theory is wrong. Seems like your allowing your passion and arrogance to override your judgement.

[FlameHead]

Well let's see the BBC has also reported that the Israeli soldiers were captured in Israel, not Lebanon: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5196800.stm

That's two major professional news organizations, with no history of right wing or pro Israeli agendas, that confirm that your theory is wrong. What did they both get taken over by "evil right wing Jews" or something? All you have given me is some guy's website and a bunch sources you refuse to name, most major news organizations around the world are stating your theory is wrong. Seems like your allowing your passion and arrogance to override your judgement.

The problem is that according to...

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html
http://english.bna.bh/?ID=47348
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/article_1180404.php/Hezbollah_back_in_the_spotlight_after_capturing_so ldiers
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hezbollah_soldiers.html
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/12072006/202/liban-le-hezbollah-capture-deux-soldats-israeliens-sept-autres-tues.html
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2947/2006/07/12/191@113428.htm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html
http://www.voltairenet.org/article142056.html

The soldiers were taken in Lebanon, not in Israel.

[AnimeJune]

Why do you guys even argue with War Lord anymore? The guy does not know what he's talking about and is a right wing extremist with his head in the sand.

Israel can not do anything wrong by Jonty.I tend to think the kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I do think that the measures Israel has taken in regards to the kidnapping of two soldiers (and the murder of seven others) is extreme, but not in regards with everything Israel has had to deal with in the past.

They've spent sixty years struggling to maintain their existence against near-constant Arab attacks. I guess they're tired of always being the first ones to back down when the UN tells them to back off, because it really hasn't done them any good so far.

After spending sixty years beating Israel with a stick, I guess the Hezbollah poked Israel hard enough to finally wake it up. My prayers are with them, but they are also with Israel too.

[The Overlord]

The problem is that according to...

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html
http://english.bna.bh/?ID=47348
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/article_1180404.php/Hezbollah_back_in_the_spotlight_after_capturing_so ldiers
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hezbollah_soldiers.html
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/12072006/202/liban-le-hezbollah-capture-deux-soldats-israeliens-sept-autres-tues.html
http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2947/2006/07/12/191@113428.htm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html
http://www.voltairenet.org/article142056.html

The soldiers were taken in Lebanon, not in Israel.

Most of those websites seem somewhat dubious to me, but the fact is there are many respectiable news organizations around (CNN, CBC, BBC) have all reported the opposite of what those sites reported. Look in war truth is always the first casualtie and there will be misinformation comming from all sides. But the fact is you can't say its a fact or its the truth that the Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanon, that's a theory, not a fact.

[AnimeJune]

Most of those websites seem somewhat dubious to me, but the fact is there are many respectiable news organizations around (CNN, CBC, BBC) have all reported the opposite of what those sites reported. Look in war truth is always the first casualtie and there will be misinformation comming from all sides. But the fact is you can't say its a fact or its the truth that the Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanon, that's a theory, not a fact.Not to mention kidnapping is against the Geneva convention.

There are approved methods of dealing with foreign soldiers on your soil - kidnappingis different than taking prisoners.

By the way, has Hezbollah returned the Israeli soldiers? No? Didn't think so. They've kidnapped Israeli people and have refused to release them or to begin negotiations leading to their release. Seems to me like Hezbollah's actions were a deliberate provocation designed to make Israel look bad.

And people seem to forget that since this conflict started - something from three hundred to five hundred thousand Israelis have been forced to relocate. Know why you don't hear about that? Because they're used to it - and they don't run crying and screaming to the UN like Arabs do. That speaks to me of the cowardice of the Arabs.

[Super_Ludacris]

Lebanon isn't doing anything to get them back so Israel is. If anything, Lebanon is the "dumb" party.

Like I said Hezbollah is pratically a terrorist party different from the actual lebenese government, the other underlying issue no one knows where these prisoners are exactly in the country but I know bombing the crap out of civillan areas is stupid. They keep saying there "Hiding" there but after awhile they should realise that bombing civillan homes and finding nothing but the dead bodies of children that they themselves bombed is not going to work nor will it find the children.
This is why the international community is stunned at Israel. For years there over-agressive attitude to terrorists has been called intoo question but now it's being exposed on a worldwide platform. To top that off they do things that really make you question what there intentions are. For instance killing those UN officals knowing that it was UN building and that they fired 13 times at it at dropped a bomb despite pleas from them to stop really makes you question there judgement and what there intentions are. You can say Lebanon's goverment can give there prisoners back but they dont have them Hezbolah do. I'm amazed that in 2006 this is how wars are fought. Why couldnt they just a special Ops team to go in and take them instead of bombing a whole country that consists of mostly civillans and is mixed with not just muslims but chrisitans and yes even jewish people.

[FlameHead]

Most of those websites seem somewhat dubious to me, but the fact is there are many respectiable news organizations around (CNN, CBC, BBC) have all reported the opposite of what those sites reported. Look in war truth is always the first casualtie and there will be misinformation comming from all sides. But the fact is you can't say its a fact or its the truth that the Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanon, that's a theory, not a fact.

Of course they seem dubious to you, they aren't CNN, CBC or BBC. Do you actually think that these are the be all and end all of news reporting?

This is what's so enfuriating. You only listen to what agrees with you and everything else is dubious. Pathetic.

[Super_Ludacris]

You don't suppose Hezbollah deliberately placed those civilians next to their miliary targets do you? Just to get sympathetic press?

How though? Those civillans have been there forever. It's not like they disguised themselves as a estate development agency created homes and moved the civillans in just so could paint a red target on them. Sad thing is, once the UN and international press-core continues to pressure Israel with explination as to why they'll probably say that. They are literally the Jewish schoolboy in class saying "My Dog ate my homework"

[FlameHead]

ISRAEL IS KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN ON A DAILY BASES. MANY OF THEM.

Does that not bother you? Does it not bother you that the 'accidently' killed four UN peacekeepers using a smart bomb. Does it not bother you that just yesterday they hit a target, killing over 60 people, over half of which were children and none of them young men?

How can you guys want to let that go on? You're all pathetic if you think Israels actions are justified. Jesus ****ing christ people, Lebanon is being completly destroyed, infastructure being completely demolished and you guys think it's justified?

Wake the **** up.

[Gamma Ray]

After some research and watching the news, I don't even consider Hezbollah terrorists. They're more like a militia.

Yeah. And Osama Bin Laden is just a businessman.


:rolleyes:

[AnimeJune]

ISRAEL IS KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN ON A DAILY BASES. MANY OF THEM.

Does that not bother you? Does it not bother you that the 'accidently' killed four UN peacekeepers using a smart bomb. Does it not bother you that just yesterday they hit a target, killing over 60 people, over half of which were children and none of them young men?

How can you guys want to let that go on? You're all pathetic if you think Israels actions are justified. Jesus ****ing christ people, Lebanon is being completly destroyed, infastructure being completely demolished and you guys think it's justified?

Wake the **** up.I'm not saying Israel is completely justified - but Lebanon still hasn't given those soldiers back, now have they?

[Speedball]

I'm not saying Israel is completely justified - but Lebanon still hasn't given those soldiers back, now have they?

Don't even try Animejune.
Theirs heads are very hard, like Adamantium hard.
Let them continue to believe what they believe, only to be proven wrong in the end.

[The Overlord]

Of course they seem dubious to you, they aren't CNN, CBC or BBC. Do you actually think that these are the be all and end all of news reporting?

This is what's so enfuriating. You only listen to what agrees with you and everything else is dubious. Pathetic.

No, that's your preception of me, not the fact. One of the websites had Noam Chomsky commenting on it, he is hardly unbiased, that's like if someone got a noted neo con to comment on an event, all objectivity goes out the window. Also I'm sorry, most of those websites didn't seem very professional to me.

Besides if I'm guilty of the crime you accused of me, you are guilty of the exact same crime, you are only listening to sources that confirm your view and slaming everything else as being false. Your being a hypocrite.

[Super_Ludacris]

Gamma your Jewish right?

[Speedball]

No, that's your preception of me, not the fact. One of the websites had Noam Chomsky commenting on it, he is hardly unbiased, that's like if someone got a noted neo con to comment on an event, all objectivity goes out the window. Also I'm sorry, most of those websites didn't seem very professional to me.

Besides if I'm guilty of the crime you accused of me, you are guilty of the exact same crime, you are only listening to sources that confirm your view and slaming everything else as being false. Your being a hypocrite.

Overlord, you might as well stop too.
He was being a hypocrite last night, and still is.

[FlameHead]

You ****ing people drive me insane. You actually want to see this war continue. You actually support those who have killed nearly 600 civilians in 2 weeks without even being able to reduce the number of 'rocket attacks' coming from the other side. On the other hand, Hezbollah, an organization that is fully respected by Lebanon and has been able to provide for the country has killed only 1/10th the number civilians and nearly the same amount of Israeli soldiers.

Do you realize that Israel says that they dropped leaflets telling people to get out which is wonderful but, they've also destroyed the infastruture, meaning roads and passageways, thus making it impossible for people to get out and it's even worse for those who have little money. Let alone the fact that vehicles which are trying to get out of harms way are being attacked as well.

I'm not the one with my head in the sand folks. You, who want this war to continue are.

Besides, we'll see who's proven wrong when this war escalates into Syria and then Iran. You'll see who's wrong when the first Nuke is launched.

[AnimeJune]

Don't even try Animejune.
Theirs heads are very hard, like Adamantium hard.
Let them continue to believe what they believe, only to be proven wrong in the end.I remember reading this blog about a guy who's trying to find a metaphor for what's happening in Israel.

This guy used to be in the Navy, see - and he's in a bar with his buddies. Suddenly, this big drunk marine goes and plants a sucker punch on the kisser of this smaller navy solider. Everyone laughs, the big drunk calls him a wimp and wuss and all that.

Suddenly, the little guy gets up and starts WAILIN' on the big drunk with a quick succession of smart, quick blows. This goes on and on - soon the drunk is bleeding in a dozen places. He's screaming and crying for someone to step in and help him.

No one in the bar does.

The teller of this story remembers hearing the small guy repeating the same things, in between his punches: "say - you - give - up - Say - you - were - wrong - Say - you - give - up" On and on and on and on - and this big drunk ass is doing nothing of the kind, still screaming and crying for someone to step in.

Finally, FINALLY, the big drunk whispers, "I was wrong, I give up." The small guy stops immediately, then goes back to finish his drink.

From the teller's standpoint, stepping in wouldn't have fixed the problem - it was obvious that people have stepped in to defend the bully before, and that it's only made him a worse bully, thinking he can go and hit some dude, and he'll get pulled out of it before something really bad happens.

Big drunk = Arab nations in general

Little guy = Israel.

I think it sums up the situation nicely.

[Gamma Ray]

Wake the **** up.


You wake up! Israel is attempting to clean up the mess that the region has become because of extremist terrorist groups. There will be civilian casualties on both sides. That's an unfortunate truth of war.

Why the hell is everyone here convinced that Israel wants these casualties? Why do you think the world is keeping quiet about what's happening? They want these people eradicated just as much as Israel.

[Speedball]

I'm ready to do my duty if I need to, are you?
It just seems you are scared.

[FlameHead]

No, that's your preception of me, not the fact. One of the websites had Noam Chomsky commenting on it, he is hardly unbiased, that's like if someone got a noted neo con to comment on an event, all objectivity goes out the window. Also I'm sorry, most of those websites didn't seem very professional to me.

Besides if I'm guilty of the crime you accused of me, you are guilty of the exact same crime, you are only listening to sources that confirm your view and slaming everything else as being false. Your being a hypocrite.

All I said is that there is a problem with the news report because there are several other reports that say otherwise. I look at multiple sources and have never said I believe any of it.

What I do say is that this ****ing needless destruction of a country is not warrented and those who believe it is are dense warmongering peace hating racests.

[FlameHead]

Overlord, you might as well stop too.
He was being a hypocrite last night, and still is.

Um, you do remember that what you called me a hypocrite for was actually just you not being able to read.

[Speedball]

I remember reading this blog about a guy who's trying to find a metaphor for what's happening in Israel.

This guy used to be in the Navy, see - and he's in a bar with his buddies. Suddenly, this big drunk marine goes and plants a sucker punch on the kisser of this smaller navy solider. Everyone laughs, the big drunk calls him a wimp and wuss and all that.

Suddenly, the little guy gets up and starts WAILIN' on the big drunk with a quick succession of smart, quick blows. This goes on and on - soon the drunk is bleeding in a dozen places. He's screaming and crying for someone to step in and help him.

No one in the bar does.

The teller of this story remembers hearing the small guy repeating the same things, in between his punches: "say - you - give - up - Say - you - were - wrong - Say - you - give - up" On and on and on and on - and this big drunk ass is doing nothing of the kind, still screaming and crying for someone to step in.

Finally, FINALLY, the big drunk whispers, "I was wrong, I give up." The small guy stops immediately, then goes back to finish his drink.

From the teller's standpoint, stepping in wouldn't have fixed the problem - it was obvious that people have stepped in to defend the bully before, and that it's only made him a worse bully, thinking he can go and hit some dude, and he'll get pulled out of it before something really bad happens.

Big drunk = Arab nations in general

Little guy = Israel.

I think it sums up the situation nicely.

You summed it up very nicely:up:

[AnimeJune]

Um, you do remember that what you called me a hypocrite for was actually just you not being able to read.*knock - knock*

Who's there?

*WHERE ARE THE KIDNAPPED ISRAELI SOLDIERS?*

[Speedball]

Um, you do remember that what you called me a hypocrite for was actually just you not being able to read.

Yeah, but you were still trying to push your beliefs on me, and everyone else.

[FlameHead]

You wake up! Israel is attempting to clean up the mess that the region has become because of extremist terrorist groups. There will be civilian casualties on both sides. That's an unfortunate truth of war.

Why the hell is everyone here convinced that Israel wants these casualties? Why do you think the world is keeping quiet about what's happening? They want these people eradicated just as much as Israel.

Sure, that's the truth of war but, when none of those who you are fighting are being killed yet hundreds of civilians (let along their infastruce) are, then that's a problem.

The world is keeping quiet? What the hell are you talking about? The only 2 nations on earth that haven't called for a cease fire are the US and the Brits and Canada themselves have not condoned Israel. Why don't you read a little?

Israel has even gone so far as denying a temporary cease fire for 72 hours so that supplies can come into the region.

[FlameHead]

Yeah, but you were still trying to push your beliefs on me, and everyone else.

I suggest you read what I was saying again. I never once pushed anything on anyone so shut the hell up with your pointless comments.

[FlameHead]

*knock - knock*

Who's there?

*WHERE ARE THE KIDNAPPED ISRAELI SOLDIERS?*

2 soldiers could have easily been taken back using special forces, intelligence and tactical manouvers. It does NOT warrent a full scale attack which has killed 600 civilians, most of which children.

Do you want to see some pictures of all the deal Lebonese children? I've seen plenty and it's ****ing heartbreaking. Of course, you'd probably laugh and say "Serves them right for living in a country that has Hezbollah".

[Speedball]

here we go with the insults.

You pushed them on everyone because you posted them in the first place

[kainedamo]

You wake up! Israel is attempting to clean up the mess that the region has become because of extremist terrorist groups. There will be civilian casualties on both sides. That's an unfortunate truth of war.

The mess the region has become because of extremist terrorist groups?? WHAT?? What the flying **** are you talking about? You do know that Hezbollah are part of the Lebanon population don't you? So what mess would you be talking about?

Why the hell is everyone here convinced that Israel wants these casualties? Why do you think the world is keeping quiet about what's happening? They want these people eradicated just as much as Israel.


Open your eyes, there is a bigger picture here. The biggest supporters of Israel are the US and Britain.

They want an excuse to invade Iran!

[AnimeJune]

2 soldiers could have easily been taken back using special forces, intelligence and tactical manouvers. It does NOT warrent a full scale attack which has killed 600 civilians, most of which children.
Really - what does that say about Hezbollah, who could have PREVENTED the deaths of hundreds of civilians if they'd just given the soldiers back in the first place?

[kainedamo]

What the ****...

It's not a proportionate attack!! It doesn't matter that Hezbollah kidnapped two soldiers... Israel's response is way too much. How can Hezbollah possibly be responsible for that???

ISRAEL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY SINGLE DEAD LEBANESE PERSON!! Not Hezbollah. **** me. I'm getting angrier and angrier as this conflict goes on, and alot of that anger is because people continue to act like Israel is innocent.

[AnimeJune]

What the ****...

It's not a proportionate attack!! It doesn't matter that Hezbollah kidnapped two soldiers... Israel's response is way too much. How can Hezbollah possibly be responsible for that???

ISRAEL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY SINGLE DEAD LEBANESE PERSON!! Not Hezbollah. **** me. I'm getting angrier and angrier as this conflict goes on, and alot of that anger is because people continue to act like Israel is innocent.Do you think that if the Israeli soldiers HADN'T been kidnapped, that Israel would have gone on to bomb Lebanon?

And why do you think it isn't proportionate? Hezbollah's been a thorn in Israel's side for DECADES. DECADES of death - not to mention the 300 000 Israeli's displaced in THIS CONFLICT ALONE.

[FlameHead]

here we go with the insults.

You pushed them on everyone because you posted them in the first place

oh, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion and share it with people.

If I insulted you, I apoligize. I just get so pissed off with people who agree with this ****.

[kainedamo]

In six years (before the current attacks started by Israel), Hezbollah have only killed 13 soldiers and 7 civilians.

How many civilians and soldiers have Israel killed in that time??? Hundreds?? Maybe thousands?? And they have innocent women and children locked up in their prisons too.

300, 000 Israeli's displaced?? Where is that figure from?

AnimeJune, you need to learn to read between the lines of these conflicts.

Israel have been waiting for something like this to happen. As have the US and Britain. Israel likes to cripple the economy of Lebanon and Palestine. The US wants to invade Iran. Win win for everyone except the Palestinians and people of Lebanon.

Wake up. Dear god, what does it take for people like you to wake up?

Let me ask you a question. What would Israel have to do for you to stop supporting them?

[FlameHead]

The mess the region has become because of extremist terrorist groups?? WHAT?? What the flying **** are you talking about? You do know that Hezbollah are part of the Lebanon population don't you? So what mess would you be talking about?




Open your eyes, there is a bigger picture here. The biggest supporters of Israel are the US and Britain.

They want an excuse to invade Iran!

You got that right. It wont be long before a few US bombs are dropped on Iran. Perhaps, more than likely even, a Nuke.

[FlameHead]

Really - what does that say about Hezbollah, who could have PREVENTED the deaths of hundreds of civilians if they'd just given the soldiers back in the first place?

You're a lost cause.

[Speedball]

see there you go again, calling it ****.
The majority don't see it as ****, the majority see it as a tragic day in the world's history, and the beginning of a long war started by extremist muslims.

[hippie_hunter]

You got that right. It wont be long before a few US bombs are dropped on Iran. Perhaps, more than likely even, a Nuke.

The United States along with the rest of the world (excluding a few untrustworthy nations such as Iran and North Korea), don't have the balls to use a nuclear weapon these days.

[JLBats]

The United States along with the rest of the world (excluding a few untrustworthy nations such as Iran and North Korea), don't have the balls to use a nuclear weapon these days.

FlameHead believes that the world is run by the Illuminati, so the whole "Not enough balls to use a nuke" logic won't get to him.

[kainedamo]

see there you go again, calling it ****.
The majority don't see it as ****, the majority see it as a tragic day in the world's history, and the beginning of a long war started by extremist muslims.

What extremist muslims exactly?? I'd like to see who these extremist muslims are in this conflict, I really would.

[FlameHead]

Wake up. Dear god, what does it take for people like you to wake up?


Unfortunatly Kain, these people will never wake up. Sadly, it's not their faults however. They have been conditioned to believe that all Muslim/Islamic people are extremists and must be wiped off the earth.

[FlameHead]

The United States along with the rest of the world (excluding a few untrustworthy nations such as Iran and North Korea), don't have the balls to use a nuclear weapon these days.

Hmm, I wonder what crap you'll come up with when the Nuke is dropped....

[roach]

I remember reading this blog about a guy who's trying to find a metaphor for what's happening in Israel.

This guy used to be in the Navy, see - and he's in a bar with his buddies. Suddenly, this big drunk marine goes and plants a sucker punch on the kisser of this smaller navy solider. Everyone laughs, the big drunk calls him a wimp and wuss and all that.

Suddenly, the little guy gets up and starts WAILIN' on the big drunk with a quick succession of smart, quick blows. This goes on and on - soon the drunk is bleeding in a dozen places. He's screaming and crying for someone to step in and help him.

No one in the bar does.

The teller of this story remembers hearing the small guy repeating the same things, in between his punches: "say - you - give - up - Say - you - were - wrong - Say - you - give - up" On and on and on and on - and this big drunk ass is doing nothing of the kind, still screaming and crying for someone to step in.

Finally, FINALLY, the big drunk whispers, "I was wrong, I give up." The small guy stops immediately, then goes back to finish his drink.

From the teller's standpoint, stepping in wouldn't have fixed the problem - it was obvious that people have stepped in to defend the bully before, and that it's only made him a worse bully, thinking he can go and hit some dude, and he'll get pulled out of it before something really bad happens.

Big drunk = Arab nations in general

Little guy = Israel.

I think it sums up the situation nicely.

ah the wisdom of sailors

[Speedball]

I don't see all Muslim as extremist, in fact I know that Islam is not about war.
They preach tolerance, forgiveness and understanding.
They should not be wiped off of the earth, not even the extremist should be wiped off of the earth, they only need to realize that they have grossly misinterpreted the Qur'an.

[FlameHead]

see there you go again, calling it ****.
The majority don't see it as ****, the majority see it as a tragic day in the world's history, and the beginning of a long war started by extremist muslims.

(I assume you're talking about 9/11 now)

Yet, not ONE peice of evidence has been collected to prove that the the 19 hijackers they fingered for 9/11 has been collected, not one piece of evidence has been gathered to prove that Osama did it.

Furthermore, the government admits that there were extreame failures that day such as the fact that nothing was done to prevent the attacks after 11 different contries warning them that something was in the works and also the fact that nearly 2 hours passed by from the time the first plane hit and the last one did and NOTHING WAS DONE.

If the government admits that there were failures, why has not one official been demoted, fired or reprimanded in any way? Tell me that.

Regardless, this is a thread about the current conflict. If you want to talk about 9/11, bring it to the other thread.

[FlameHead]

I don't see all Muslim as extremist, in fact I know that Islam is not about war.
They preach tolerance, forgiveness and understanding.
They should not be wiped off of the earth, not even the extremist should be wiped off of the earth, they only need to realize that they have grossly misinterpreted the Qur'an.

Perhaps that is correct but, destroying a country or 3 isn't the way to do that.

[Speedball]

hmm...
I remember seeing videos where he said he was responsible and he hired the attackers. But I guess you consider that a conspiracy theory as well. :rolleyes:

[roach]

(I assume you're talking about 9/11 now)


Furthermore, the government admits that there were extreame failures that day such as the fact that nothing was done to prevent the attacks after 11 different contries warning them that something was in the works and also the fact that nearly 2 hours passed by from the time the first plane hit and the last one did and NOTHING WAS DONE.

If the government admits that there were failures, why has not one official been demoted, fired or reprimanded in any way? Tell me that.

Regardless, this is a thread about the current conflict. If you want to talk about 9/11, bring it to the other thread.

what should have been done then????
How do you know no one was fired????

[Speedball]

Perhaps that is correct but, destroying a country or 3 isn't the way to do that.

How would you approach it then?

[FlameHead]

hmm...
I remember seeing videos where he said he was responsible and he hired the attackers. But I guess you consider that a conspiracy theory as well. :rolleyes:

I've also read a report, the first report released, where Osama says he had nothing to do with it. I also took notice of the fact that in this famous video you talk about, he writes with the wrong hand and barely looks like previous photos of Osama. Regardless, this isn't hard evidence and not really worth talking about.

What is worth talking about is the fact that Osama isn't even being looked for anymore. Also of importance is the extremely tight business ties between his family and the Bush family.

Besides, of course a terror organization (if that is really what Osama and his gang are) is going to take credit for the attacks, even if it wasn't them. They want to be praised by their people and taking credit for such an attack would do wonders.

[FlameHead]

what should have been done then????
How do you know no one was fired????

Because I read and all the same people are still in command.

[FlameHead]

How would you approach it then?

First and foremost, I wouldn't have used propaganda for decades to convince the populous that all Muslim/Islamic people are terrorists.

[AnimeJune]

In six years (before the current attacks started by Israel), Hezbollah have only killed 13 soldiers and 7 civilians.

How many civilians and soldiers have Israel killed in that time??? Hundreds?? Maybe thousands?? And they have innocent women and children locked up in their prisons too.

300, 000 Israeli's displaced?? Where is that figure from?

AnimeJune, you need to learn to read between the lines of these conflicts.

Israel have been waiting for something like this to happen. As have the US and Britain. Israel likes to cripple the economy of Lebanon and Palestine. The US wants to invade Iran. Win win for everyone except the Palestinians and people of Lebanon.

Wake up. Dear god, what does it take for people like you to wake up?

Let me ask you a question. What would Israel have to do for you to stop supporting them?Hmmm...know what I've noticed?

The members posting for Israel's side have had polite and reasonable posts, for the most part - but those posting for Lebanon have resorted to swearing and repeated questions as to "why we won't wake up". Sounds to me like you're on shaky ground, which is why you're resorting to weak comebacks.

Israel wants to cripple the Palestinians and Lebanon? Hmm, wonder why? Oh yeah - because if they make enough money, they'll by bombs to destroy Israel!

Hezbollah's been around for more than six years, by the way.

Also - try reading around on the Jewish blogs of people living in Israel. Almost everyone who hasn't had their house blown up yet is letting other families stay with them because THEIR homes are destroyed. Some people are living 20 people to a house.

You support terrorists - you pay the consequences. The Lebanese hate Israel as much as the Hezbollah. This is a WAR, people. Children and women are going to die - that's the fact in a WAR. Hezbollah chose to piss off a country that is militarily superior to them in nearly every way, and yet they CONTINUE to REFUSE to RETURN the Israeli soldiers, even while hundreds of their countrymen continue to die.

If that's not selfishness (hurt Israel at any cost), then I don't know what is. This is what the Hezbollah wants. They get off on chaos. They attack a stronger country that they hate because they know they'll fight back and kick ass.

They don't return the hostages because they know the more the body count rises, the more the surrounding nations will feel sympathy for Lebanon and hate for Israel. In this manner, they're inciting hatred for Israel because they want Israel to get a smack down.

Everytime Israel backs off in a war, obeys a ceasefire, relinquishes land - the Arabs attack because they think they're weak. If Israel gives up a stretch of land near their border, $20 says that the week after that, the Arabs will be launching bombs into Israel from that land.

Explain that to me, Flamehead and kainedemo - explain how the Arabs NEVER cut Israel a break. Explain to me how the Arabs are NEVER the ones to obey the UN in a fight. Explain to me how the Arabs NEVER concede to Israel, NEVER consider themselves defeated. Explain to me why the Arabs always run screaming to the UN to save them from a fight THEY started. Explain why the Arabs HAVEN'T given the hostages back.

Explain to me how a nation is supposed to act when it is SURROUNDED by countries whose highest goal is to wipe them off the face of the map. Explain to me how a nation is supposed to act when every hand of peace offered to the Arabs is blown off with a suicide bomb. Explain to me how a nation is supposed to act when every concession it makes to the Arabs in an attempt for peace is seen as a sign of weakness and defeat?

[roach]

Basicly this argument is a he say she say type thing.
See Poster number one believes everything Hezbollah says and uses that as a basis for his understanding.
Poster Number two believes everything the government says and that is what he uses.
Both only look at the evidence that supports their claims and theories. However since neither of you are over there to witness the actions you are fighting over you are both null and void. You both can have an opinion but claiming that you have the truth is just wrong.

[roach]

Because I read and all the same people are still in command.

so should people get fired from a job because of a problem they werent prepared for????

[Speedball]

First and foremost, I wouldn't have used propaganda for decades to convince the populous that all Muslim/Islamic people are terrorists.
You did not answer my question.
What would you have done?

[roach]

I've also read a report, the first report released, where Osama says he had nothing to do with it. I also took notice of the fact that in this famous video you talk about, he writes with the wrong hand and barely looks like previous photos of Osama. Regardless, this isn't hard evidence and not really worth talking about.

What is worth talking about is the fact that Osama isn't even being looked for anymore. Also of importance is the extremely tight business ties between his family and the Bush family.

Besides, of course a terror organization (if that is really what Osama and his gang are) is going to take credit for the attacks, even if it wasn't them. They want to be praised by their people and taking credit for such an attack would do wonders.


just because it isnt in the news 24/7 doesnt mean we arent looking for him

[Speedball]

Basicly this argument is a he say she say type thing.
See Poster number one believes everything Hezbollah says and uses that as a basis for his understanding.
Poster Number two believes everything the government says and that is what he uses.
Both only look at the evidence that supports their claims and theories. However since neither of you are over there to witness the actions you are fighting over you are both null and void. You both can have an opinion but claiming that you have the truth is just wrong.

I've been thinking of posting a thread like this, but wasn't sure how to word.
Very well done:up:
The fact, neither of us is right, or wrong.
It could be a combination of both, or not.

[FlameHead]

so should people get fired from a job because of a problem they werent prepared for????

Because they weren't prepared after 11 countries warned them is the reason why people should be fired. Because over 3000 people, American citizens, died that day because of their non response and lack of preperation is why people should be fired. Because these people TO THIS DAY are using that event to continue letting American Soldiers die in IRAQ and Afganistan is why people whould be fired.

[hippie_hunter]

Hmm, I wonder what crap you'll come up with when the Nuke is dropped....

I'll go

"Holy s**t, I can't beleive that they actually grew the balls to do that!"

[AnimeJune]

Unfortunatly Kain, these people will never wake up. Sadly, it's not their faults however. They have been conditioned to believe that all Muslim/Islamic people are extremists and must be wiped off the earth.If you'd taken the time to READ my posts, you would have see I haven't even mentioned Islam or Muslims - just that the Lebanese citizens and the Hezbollah and Arabs in the countries surrounding Israel HATE Israel.

Just because I support Israel against Lebanon does not mean I'm anti-Muslim, just as I don't think you're anti-semetic just because you support Lebanon against Israel.

[FlameHead]

just because it isnt in the news 24/7 doesnt mean we arent looking for him

Perhaps you haven't read this:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/07/04/cia.binladen.ap/

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 Posted: 1726 GMT (0126 HKT)
NEW YORK (AP) -- A CIA unit that had hunted for Osama bin Laden and his top deputies for a decade has been disbanded, according to a published report...

More at the link...

[JLBats]

I'll go

"Holy s**t, I can't beleive that they actually grew the balls to do that!"

And kill all those civilians?:confused:

[Speedball]

I'll go

"Holy s**t, I can't beleive that they actually grew the balls to do that!"

I'd go
"Sweet, It's time to go all Mad Max. Hopefully I don't have to wear ass-less chaps."
or
"Time to start an army of teenagers, where are Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen when you need them?"

[FlameHead]

If you'd taken the time to READ my posts, you would have see I haven't even mentioned Islam or Muslims - just that the Lebanese citizens and the Hezbollah and Arabs in the countries surrounding Israel HATE Israel.

Just because I support Israel against Lebanon does not mean I'm anti-Muslim, just as I don't think you're anti-semetic just because you support Lebanon against Israel.

You miss my point. I don't support either one of them. I want a cease fire and the senseless killing to stop on both ends. But, the fact is, I cannot ignore the extremely radical behavior of Israel and the children who are dying and suffering because of it.

[roach]

Perhaps you haven't read this:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/07/04/cia.binladen.ap/



More at the link...


I guess the CIA is the only ones that can go after him

[AnimeJune]

I'll go

"Holy s**t, I can't beleive that they actually grew the balls to do that!":D

You know what someone SHOULD make a thread about? The response some Canadians have made to the Lebanese Canadians decrying Israel's attack. Turns out that there were a lot of Lebanese-Canadians with dual citizenship who were living in Lebanon around the time of the attack, who asked to be rescued by Canada when Israel started bombing.

Some Canadians were angry that we were "wasting" taxpayer money on people were "weren't Canadian enough to actually live in Canada", which led to an idiotic debate on what makes a Canadian a Canadian. Appalling.

[Superman4ever]

Hmmm...know what I've noticed?

Explain that to me, Flamehead and kainedemo - explain how the Arabs NEVER cut Israel a break. Explain to me how the Arabs are NEVER the ones to obey the UN in a fight. Explain to me how the Arabs NEVER concede to Israel, NEVER consider themselves defeated. Explain to me why the Arabs always run screaming to the UN to save them from a fight THEY started. Explain why the Arabs HAVEN'T given the hostages back.


What the hell are you talking about? You are just rambling like a maniac.

A list of UN Resolutions against "Israel"

# 1955-1992:

# * Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
# * Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
# * Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
# * Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
# * Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
# * Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
# * Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
# * Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
# * Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
# * Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
# * Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
# * Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
# * Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
# * Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
# * Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
# * Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
# *Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
# * Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
# * Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
# * Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
# * Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
# * Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
# * Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
# * Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
# * Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
# * Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
# * Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
# * Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
# * Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
# * Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
# * Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
# * Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious
# obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
# * Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
# * Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
# * Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member
# states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
# * Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
# * Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of
# two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
# * Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the
# council's order not to deport Palestinians".
# * Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide
# by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
# * Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
# * Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its
# claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
# * Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported
# Palestinian mayors".
# * Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
# nuclear facility".
# * Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan
# Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
# * Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
# * Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
# * Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
# * Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
# allow food supplies to be brought in".
# * Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions
# and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
# * Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
# * Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
# * Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia
# in attack on PLO headquarters.
# * Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw
# its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
# * Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students
# at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
# * Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices
# denying the human rights of Palestinians.
# * Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly
# requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
# * Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
# * Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
# * Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
# * Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians
# at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
# * Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United
# Nations.
# * Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of
# Palestinians.
# * Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and
# calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
# * Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
# * Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians
# and calls for their immediate return.

http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html

Look'em up here:

http://www.un.org/documents/scres.htm

[Speedball]

I guess the CIA is the only ones that can go after him
They are. They are external, they can go into countries and arrest people.
If we were to send a military force after him, then we could start a war.

[AnimeJune]

You miss my point. I don't support either one of them. I want a cease fire and the senseless killing to stop on both ends. But, the fact is, I cannot ignore the extremely radical behavior of Israel and the children who are dying and suffering because of it.On the one hand, I want a ceasefire - because the brutality of war is a great evil.

One the other hand, this is just giving Hezbollah what it wants. $20 says they will be the FIRST people to disobey the ceasefire if it's given. If Israel backs down, the Hezbollah will go, "Hey! We won!"

The Arabs have been pulling the same schtick for sixty years. Provoke Israel, hide behind the UN's skirts, then declare "victory" when Israel backs off.

The ceasefire will only leave them the opportunity to attack again. In the short term, yes, a ceasefire will stop the violence. FOR NOW. In the long-term, I think it will just lead to more attacks on Israel and more violence, over many more years to come.

[kainedamo]

How many times do I have to tell you... Hezbollah has barely attacked Israel over the last 6 years at all!! They're the ones right now that say they want an immediate ceasefire, it's Israel that wants to keep going.

You're living in an alternate dimension.

[raybia]

I don't see all Muslim as extremist, in fact I know that Islam is not about war.
They preach tolerance, forgiveness and understanding.
They should not be wiped off of the earth, not even the extremist should be wiped off of the earth, they only need to realize that they have grossly misinterpreted the Qur'an.

I concur. SpeedballLives speaks the truth. :up: :)

[hippie_hunter]

And kill all those civilians?:confused:

No, mostly in shock that a nuclear weapon was even used period. In todays day and age almost every nuclear power, the United States, France, the United Kingdom, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, etc, just simply don't have the balls at all to use them.

[AnimeJune]

What the hell are you talking about? You are just rambling like a maniac.

A list of UN Resolutions against "Israel"

# 1955-1992:

# * Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
# * Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
# * Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
# * Resolution etc etc and so on and so forth Sheesh. Serves me right, I guess, for speaking in generalities.

Um, could you go and look up all the times that Israel has conceded in battles? That would really help my argument. ;)

Deep down, I believe Israel deserves to be a nation. And as you've pointed out, their methods for self-preservation have not been so cut-and-dry. I believe some of what they've done can be excused by the number of times they've been attacked and terrorized by Arab nations, but admittedly, not all of it.

My support for Israel comes from what I believe their intentions are - to protect themselves.

My lack for support for the Hezbollah and other Arab nations comes what I believe their intentions are - to destroy all Israeli.

One's fighting to protect itself, another to destroy all Jews. Neither of their methods are completely just or injust. I know that. But I can't justify a nation whose goal is to destroy other nation out of prejudice and bigotry.

[Speedball]

I concur. SpeedballLives speaks the truth. :up: :)
thank you Raybia:D

[AnimeJune]

How many times do I have to tell you... Hezbollah has barely attacked Israel over the last 6 years at all!! They're the ones right now that say they want an immediate ceasefire, it's Israel that wants to keep going.

You're living in an alternate dimension.Well, duh - because they're losing and Israel's winning.

[FlameHead]

I guess the CIA is the only ones that can go after him

The fact that they aren't looking for him is the problem. Especially when you consider all the crap the CIA has pulled off in the past.

[raybia]

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=8ade93c1-8f2e-4dff-bc4d-e7117c6de4db&k=92240

For those who want to make this conflict as Israel as the good guy and Hezbollah/Lebanon as the bad guy or vice versa.

[Superman4ever]

Well, duh - because they're losing and Israel's winning.

Really? That's why they withdrew from Lebanon so that they could use their fancy bomb, via air-strikes, to eradicate all in site because of heavy losses on their side (total dead Israelis: 61-66 -- 18 are civilians...do the math!) That's why Hezbollah is still going on strong, very strong actually, 18 days into this war when everyone thought it was going to take a week or two MAX for Israel to stomp the hell out of them?

I don't support Hamas or Hezbollah, like you, but Israel is not winning. In actuality with all the civilians murdered by Israel (450-500) and all the innocent lives that are maimed (1500-2000) and all the displaced and homeless, Israel is actually very much losing.

[roach]

They are. They are external, they can go into countries and arrest people.
If we were to send a military force after him, then we could start a war.

we are there...we are looking....now before we question that ask me what I do for a living.....Hint:US Military

[Speedball]

George Washington was right, we should not get involved in foriegn matters.
Guess it's too late for that now.

[FlameHead]

This link is not for children or those with weak stomachs:
http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

These are pictures of dead victims of this war and incredibly horrific and equally sad.

[Speedball]

we are there...we are looking....now before we question that ask me what I do for a living.....Hint:US Military
I guess that's why I agree with you.
I live at the nation's largest (if not, the second Largest) military base, Norfolk.
All of my friends dad's are or were in the military.

[AnimeJune]

This link is not for children or those with weak stomachs:
http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

These are pictures of dead victims of this war and incredibly horrific and equally sad.I'll look at those pictures if you conjure up some images of the atrocities people have been doing to the Jews for the last couple of hundred YEARS. Find some of the destruction caused by Palestinian suicide bombers? Or how 'bout the Holocaust? Hmm?

[Superman4ever]

Jesus is really going to love this state of Israel!

Israeli tank Vs. Catholic Preist:
http://www.halturnershow.com/TankThreatensPriest.jpg

dirty Arabs! :mad:

[FlameHead]

I'll look at those pictures if you conjure up some images of the atrocities people have been doing to the Jews for the last couple of hundred YEARS. Find some of the destruction caused by Palestinian suicide bombers? Or how 'bout the Holocaust? Hmm?

You think the Jews would have learn't something from the Holocaust, not follow in it's footsteps.

[raybia]

This link is not for children or those with weak stomachs:
http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

These are pictures of dead victims of this war and incredibly horrific and equally sad.


Israel stated once again it was against a cease-fire. Olmert said: "Israel is in no rush to declare a cease-fire before we have achieved our central objectives that we set for ourselves prior to the operation. We expect a detailed agreement on the forces that will secure the regions dangerous to Israel.”

'Rice, who was in Israel, said she was saddened by the Qana air raid, but stopped well short of calling for an immediate ceasefire.'

For our U.S leaders who at best only advise Israel to be careful about civilian
casulties but refuse to call for an immediate ceasefire and continue to support Israel financially and every other way, They are the real war criminals
and we as Americans will have blood on our hands unless we hold our elected leaders accountable for their decisions and actions.

[raybia]

I'll look at those pictures if you conjure up some images of the atrocities people have been doing to the Jews for the last couple of hundred YEARS. Find some of the destruction caused by Palestinian suicide bombers? Or how 'bout the Holocaust? Hmm?

You should conjure them up and post them. This is the reality of war and oppression and that is why the U.S. cannot by so quick to support and avocate it and participate in it. Both sides have the blood of the dead on their hands.

Ask the dead if it matters who pulled the trigger. Take away the religious, national and ethic labels and what you have that all of these dead have in common is that they were human beings.

[Darkdd]

If you'd taken the time to READ my posts, you would have see I haven't even mentioned Islam or Muslims - just that the Lebanese citizens and the Hezbollah and Arabs in the countries surrounding Israel HATE Israel.

Just because I support Israel against Lebanon does not mean I'm anti-Muslim, just as I don't think you're anti-semetic just because you support Lebanon against Israel.
The Lebanese citizens do not hate Israel(well atleast before they started destroying their country).Their beef is/was with Syria.
Lebanon is not even at war.Lebanon is not fighting Israel,Hezbollah is.

[Gamma Ray]

Jesus is really going to love this state of Israel!

Israeli tank Vs. Catholic Preist:
http://www.halturnershow.com/TankThreatensPriest.jpg

dirty Arabs! :mad:


All of this crap you're posting is circumstantial. You don't have any idea what's actually happening in these pictures.

[raybia]

The Lebanese citizens do not hate Israel(well atleast before they started destroying their country).Their beef is/was with Syria.
Lebanon is not even at war.Lebanon is not fighting Israel,Hezbollah is.

Twenty years from now, (if not sooner) everyone will be critizing Lebanon and its citizens and asking the question, "Why do the lebanese hate Israel?" :rolleyes:

[Gamma Ray]

This link is not for children or those with weak stomachs:
http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

These are pictures of dead victims of this war and incredibly horrific and equally sad.


You want atrocious? Here: http://www.all4israel.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Category&catId=45

Just because Israeli's don't have the disrespect to photograph dead bodies, doesn't mean they have not suffered even more than those in the link you provided.

It's absolutely sickening to me when I think about how Israel has trained cleanup crews who come in after terror attacks and scrape the blood off the streets.

[Darkdd]

Israels military sucks.They dont seem to be using any kind of intelegence when dropping bombs.They are like,"I think Hezbollah is here!"-drop tons of bombs and destroy an entire neighbourhood-"Did we get them?".And a story that proves this,the IDF thought 2 trucks carrying water drilling equipment
were potential missile transports.What do they do-bomb the hell out of them.
Israel has openly said that they are trying to scare the rest of the Mid-East by making an example out of Hezbollah/the Lebanese govt.Doesn't that make them terrorists?

[kainedamo]

AnimeJune never answered my question. Maybe one of you pro-Israelis can.

Let me ask you a question. What would Israel have to do for you to stop supporting them?

[Gamma Ray]

Let me ask you a question. What would Israel have to do for you to stop supporting them?


I dunno... Bomb the US? :confused:

Here's one for you: What does Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Quaeda, etc have to do for you to stop supporting them?

[FlameHead]

You're the one supporting Al Quaeda. It's a US government created, funded and trained organization. Common, public knowledge.

Isreals weopons all come from the US. They are killing all these children and women with wepons provided by you and your tax money.

[AnimeJune]

AnimeJune never answered my question. Maybe one of you pro-Israelis can.

Let me ask you a question. What would Israel have to do for you to stop supporting them?All the Jews in it would have to cease to exist, and all the Jews all throughout the world who would otherwise be wishing for a nation of their own would also have to cease to exist.

-->As to Darkdd, you made a very interesting point. Are they terrorists by seeking to make an example out of Lebanon? I honestly don't know. I know that their actions are intended to finally stop the attacks the Arabs have made against them, to protect themselves.

I'm not going to pretend that I know anything that goes on in the minds of Israel's government, but I can imagine - they've conceded land and obeyed ceasefires and tried for peace, but it hasn't worked. So they're trying to fight fire with fire.

It's sad for all involved. But what else do you expect Israel to do? They've tried peace and it hasn't worked. Maybe they feel they can't afford to sit on their hands anymore if they want to survive.

[kainedamo]

All the Jews in it would have to cease to exist, and all the Jews all throughout the world who would otherwise be wishing for a nation of their own would also have to cease to exist.

That really doesn't make sense, read my question again.

-->As to Darkdd, you made a very interesting point. Are they terrorists by seeking to make an example out of Lebanon? I honestly don't know. I know that their actions are intended to finally stop the attacks the Arabs have made against them, to protect themselves.

I'm not going to pretend that I know anything that goes on in the minds of Israel's government, but I can imagine - they've conceded land and obeyed ceasefires and tried for peace, but it hasn't worked. So they're trying to fight fire with fire.

It's sad for all involved. But what else do you expect Israel to do? They've tried peace and it hasn't worked. Maybe they feel they can't afford to sit on their hands anymore if they want to survive.

The way you talk, you would think Israel were recieving daily attacks before this mess occured. You keep whitewashing over the fact that this is all over two soldiers. Two soldiers - 700 civilians, you do the math.

[kainedamo]

I dunno... Bomb the US? :confused:


That's a dumb answer. So Israel is only bad if it attacks you! What wonderful logic!


Here's one for you: What does Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Quaeda, etc have to do for you to stop supporting them?

Who falls under the "etc". I don't support Al Quaeda buddy.

As for Hezbollah, I'd stop supporting them if they killed almost 700 civilians in the space of a few weeks.

[AnimeJune]

That really doesn't make sense, read my question again.



The way you talk, you would think Israel were recieving daily attacks before this mess occured. You keep whitewashing over the fact that this is all over two soldiers. Two soldiers - 700 civilians, you do the math.I think you're a little naive if you think this offensive is entirely due to two soldiers - it's like saying World War I was started entirely by the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. There are more factors involved than that.

Lebanon has been bombing Israel with rocketlaunchers stationed in the south, so of course the goverment's been whining for a ceasefire - they don't want Israel to invade and destroy the weapons they've been using to kill Israelis!

Israel is fighting with an army - they are not terrorists. They are defending themselves. It's a sad, sad, fact that they cannot afford to be a pacifist nation, but it's true. It's either defend themselves or be pushed into the sea. What alternative do they have kainedemo? Answer me that - what alternative do they have?

Compare them to America - America is surrounded by nations that are peaceful to it. Do the Canadians and Mexicans hate Americans with a burning, religion-fueled bigotry? Would they like nothing better than to wipe Americans off the face of the globe? No.

That's what it's like in Israel - it's a Jewish state sandwiched between virulently anti-Semitic nations. As a nation, it is literally backed into a corner.

That's why I support Israel. What would they have to do to lose my support? They would have to commit mindless, motiveless slaughter, actions that are not at all motivated by self-preservation. So far, they haven't done that.

Hey, by the way, can you recall a time when Arab "terrorists" sent leaflets and messages on loudspeakers to the places they were about to bomb, in order to get civilians out in time? Because that's what Israel's doing. Children are dying, yeah - SO? It's a WAR. It happens even when the supposedly "best" of countries engage in it. It's a fact of life.

So, to resume - Israel has no choice. It's actions are fuelled by the need for self-preservation. Hezbollah's motives are bigotry - they still haven't negotiated to return the hostages, even though it could very well end much of the destruction.

[FlameHead]

The difference however is that Canada and Mexico are not recieving and amassing weopons from an outside source like Israel is. Everything they have has been paid for by American Tax money. Americans have supplied Israel with the means to completly demolish another country and kill nearly 700 civilians to boot.

Things would be a whole hell of a lot different if the US weren't backing Israel, not only in justifying it's heavy handed blows but also providing the weopons to do it with.

[AnimeJune]

The difference however is that Canada and Mexico are not recieving and amassing weopons from an outside source like Israel is. Everything they have has been paid for by American Tax money. Americans have supplied Israel with the means to completly demolish another country and kill nearly 700 civilians to boot.

Things would be a whole hell of a lot different if the US weren't backing Israel, not only in justifying it's heavy handed blows but also providing the weopons to do it with.You're mixing up my metaphor, first of all - Canada and Mexico standing IN for Arab countries.

Secondly, what does this have to do with my argument? What does the source of Israel's weapons have to do with how they're being used? Israel has a damn fine army system with or without the US' help. If you're angry at the US for supporting Israel with ulterior motives, fine - be mad at the US. Israel hasn't done anything yet that doesn't support their bid for self-preservation.

[FlameHead]

Sorry, I dont' feel like arguing over the death of nearly 700 civilians with weapons provided by another country.

[cass]

Israel is giving a 24 hour relief from bombings, possibly extended to 48 hours to allow civilians to leave, and most likely Hezbollah will bomb the **** out of Israel during the period.

[Superman4ever]

All of this crap you're posting is circumstantial. You don't have any idea what's actually happening in these pictures.

Circumstantial? You are PATHETIC! Had that been an Arab tank you would have cried, and screamed, 'BLOODY MARY' from here to moon.

I've backed everything I said, in this thread and more, and have posted facts and documents over and over again. AnimeJune blabbed like he/she knew anything about how Arabs are the ones that ignore the UN yet it's the Israelis have ignored 244-250 UN resolutions. I've posted some of them, here: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9699685&postcount=409 But instead of confronting the information he/she danced around it. That's all you guys do is dance and twirl and spin the information to a dizzying amount.

Unless it's an Arab tank/solider it's circumstantial and/or defense!

What about these pictures, do I need to know what's going on here?

http://www.halturnershow.com/43.jpg

http://www.halturnershow.com/3a.jpg

http://www.halturnershow.com/4.jpg

What if that was an Arab solider (AKA terrorist) holding a decapitated baby in his hands? "See how these terrorist love blood; they're indiscriminate!
http://www.halturnershow.com/infant.jpg

Yeah, yeah; I know, I know: "In a war, however unfortunate, civilians die -- even babies!" :rolleyes:

Dirty Arabs! :mad:

[cass]

After some research and watching the news, I don't even consider Hezbollah terrorists. They're more like a militia.



You anti-semitic prick.

[Superman4ever]

Israel is giving a 24 hour relief from bombings, possibly extended to 48 hours to allow civilians to leave, and most likely Hezbollah will bomb the **** out of Israel during the period.

And only 37 children had to die for those 24 hours -- how wonderfully altruistic!

http://article.wn.com/view/2006/07/31/Israel_suspends_air_strikes_after_37_children_die/

[squeekness]

How though? Those civillans have been there forever. It's not like they disguised themselves as a estate development agency created homes and moved the civillans in just so could paint a red target on them. Sad thing is, once the UN and international press-core continues to pressure Israel with explination as to why they'll probably say that. They are literally the Jewish schoolboy in class saying "My Dog ate my homework"Well, Israel did post leaflets saying that folks should get out. I do understand that these folks were refugees as it was and probably had nowhere to go. When I was musing to myself if their placement in that adjacent building was deliberate, I wasn't saying that it was fact, I was just wondering. Intentional or not, the reality is, Hezbollah got what they wanted -- the sympathy of the international community is leaning more in their favor.