Fat Tonie Doesn't Know Anything About Football

[FaT_tONle]

So I heard the whole debate over my local radio... and I just wanted to know where NFL fans stood on the issue. Lemme clarify the options of the poll so there is no confusion.

1. Each team guaranteed one possession. Sudden death after one possession each no matter what.

2. Mandatory punt/field goal attempt on fourth down for ensuing possession. This is an intriguing option. Eliminates the team that receives the ball second from getting an extra down to match or exceed what the opposing team did on the opening possession during the ensuing drive.

3. First TD wins game. Field goals can not win the game on the opening possession. Field goal can not win the game until every team gets at least one possession.

4. Extra OT period (8-15 minutes). If game remains tied at the end the game ends in a tie. Go to a sudden death period during post season.

5. Similar to college format. Each team gets the ball at the 25 or 50 yard line.

6. Team that wins toss MUST start possession at their own 20. Eliminates good starting field position since most teams start at their own 30-35 after the return. This forces teams to drive at least 40-50 yards before getting into field goal range.

7. No change... it is perfect as it is.

8. Other.

(Poll Forthcoming)

[Matt]

I say keep it as it is. These are professional defenses. There is no reason they should not be able to get the stop and get their offense the ball.

[Kaleb]

Make it so that Field Goals are not counted, only way to score is to get a td.

[bunk]

Make it so that Field Goals are not counted, only way to score is to get a td.

This would be the only option I'd consider.

If you're defense cannot come through in a clutch, then you lose the game. It isn't that complicated.

[FaT_tONle]

I like teams starting at their own 20... my big radio guy Mike Francesa here in NY loves the idea. It makes sense. You need a darn good kicker and insane special teams to stop a team from getting passed the 20 yard line on the kickoff return. Kickers kicking at their own 30 sometimes barely kick the ball within the opposing ten yard line on the kick off. This balances out the field position... taking into account both an offensive/defensive/special teams oriented game.

Make it so that Field Goals are not counted, only way to score is to get a td.

Yeah this is the second best option IMO... but you look at games like Philli/Cinci (the tie) or Jets/Raiders where offenses can't get out of their own way... you'd need to go to sudden death after the first possessions each. It's a doable option. San Diego would have still won the game Saturday because of the TD.

[Kaleb]

This would be the only option I'd consider.

If you're defense cannot come through in a clutch, then you lose the game. It isn't that complicated.

exactly.

[Addendum]

It works fine as is.

[Matt]

Special teams are just as much a part of the team as an offense and defense. Making teams start from the 20 or not counting field goals in overtime are punishing teams who have spent time and money to hone their special teams and rewarding teams who did not. If I'm the coach who spends a good amount of time working on kick returns or training my kicker to make the 50 yard field goal, I'd be pretty pissed if they implemented these rules.

[FaT_tONle]

Special teams are just as much a part of the team as an offense and defense. Making teams start from the 20 or not counting field goals in overtime are punishing teams who have spent time and money to hone their special teams and rewarding teams who did not. If I'm the coach who spends a good amount of time working on kick returns or training my kicker to make the 50 yard field goal, I'd be pretty pissed if they implemented these rules.

Yeah but you could say if you had a good returner... it's not fair that you win the toss and begin the period with that given advantage. Why let a coin flip decide that? Just start at an even perspective with regards to field position.

[KALEL114]

It's fine as it is. If you don't get the ball first, then your defense should do it's job and get the ball back for you.

[Matt]

Yeah but you could say if you had a good returner... it's not fair that you win the toss and begin the period with that given advantage. Why let a coin flip decide that? Just start at an even perspective with regards to field position.

And if the other team pays proper focus to their special teams, they will stop the good returner from giving their opponent great field position.

[KALEL114]

Yeah but you could say if you had a good returner... it's not fair that you win the toss and begin the period with that given advantage. Why let a coin flip decide that? Just start at an even perspective with regards to field position.

The advantage is that the team owner paid to have that kick returner and paid to have the special teams to do it's job, which is to give you the best possible field position.

[FaT_tONle]

And if the other team pays proper focus to their special teams, they will stop the good returner from giving their opponent great field position.

I am just saying... it balances out since the team gets the ball back after half time if they didn't already receive the ball to begin the game. But now with OT you are going to skew the thing again and grant a team an extra kickoff return? The receiving team ALWAYS has the advantage with the kickoff no matter how bad a return man they have back there.

[Matt]

I am just saying... it balances out since the team gets the ball back at half time to start if they didn't already to begin the game. But now with OT you are going to skew the thing again and grant a team an extra kickoff? The receving team ALWAYS has the advantage with the kickoff no matter how bad a return man they have back there.

That's total nonsense. The return team does not always have the advantage. And it doesn't balance anything out. It rewards laziness in teams who did not properly prepare their special teams and punishes the teams who spent the time, money, and effort to make their special teams unit strong.

[FaT_tONle]

That's total nonsense. The return team does not always have the advantage. And it doesn't balance anything out. It rewards laziness in teams who did not properly prepare their special teams and punishes the teams who spent the time, money, and effort to make their special teams unit strong.

It's nonsense to get an extra kickoff return. How many teams really begin inside their own twenty after a kickoff? With punts you have the OPTION of kicking it out of bounds. You can't do that on a kickoff. So why grant a team an extra kickoff when they know they get a free return or start at the 40 yard line?

[Addendum]

Because the kickoff in overtime is done the exact same way as the kickoff to start the game. It all depends on who wins the coin flip and the winner of the flip decides

[FaT_tONle]

Yeah but you are starting only a third half... not a full game. Since the other team does not get a return...

[Addendum]

So? The other team has their chance to make a stop or get an interception

[Matt]

I'm with Addendum, what is your point Tonie. Why have a special teams unit if they can't perform in a clutch situation? Why have a defense if they can't make a stop?

[Cmill216]

Wanna get the ball back?

Play defense.

[/Debate]

[ih8nyy]

I say keep it as it is. These are professional defenses. There is no reason they should not be able to get the stop and get their offense the ball.

You can't let a coin flip determine the outsome of a game.

Do it NHL Shot Out Style. Both teams get a certain # of chances starting from their own 20. 2 minute drill style.

[Showtime]

No change.

[Immortalfire]

Leave it be. If you want the ball back, play defense.

[FaT_tONle]

Okay guys WTF... Immortal... I admit it... I am a Bulldog fan... been a fan for life... I only am so negative about that team because I am deeply hoping inside that they prove me wrong one day and win a Championship. That's why I am always dissing the Bulldogs... I am SECRETLY rooting for them. Now can we change the freaking title of the thread please?

[Showtime]

I changed it a bit.

[FaT_tONle]

Then I am a Pat fan... always have been... always will be....

[Mister J]

Leave it as is.

After playing 60 minutes of football to a standstill, a random toss of a coin doesn't come across like a dealbreaker. Don't give up a huge runback or let the offense drive ~50 yards for a FG or better. Go out and stop somebody.

I wish the NCAA would consider doing something to the college format. It turns a previously interesting game into a bloody circus.

[Matt]

You can't let a coin flip determine the outsome of a game.

Do it NHL Shot Out Style. Both teams get a certain # of chances starting from their own 20. 2 minute drill style.

A coin flip doesn't determine the game. A defense and special teams unit not playing well determines the game.

[ih8nyy]

A coin flip doesn't determine the game. A defense and special teams unit not playing well determines the game.

If you have two teams that are brutal on defense the chances of getting a field goal are almost automatic if either team wins the coin flip. I mean in every other sport in OT both teams have a shot to score, wether it is extra innings or whatever. That was my only point.

[Showtime]

Doesn't the team that wins the coin flip only score 30% of the time or something like that?

[Matt]

If you have two teams that are brutal on defense the chances of getting a field goal are almost automatic if either team wins the coin flip. I mean in every other sport in OT both teams have a shot to score, wether it is extra innings or whatever. That was my only point.

BAseball is different. Some times there is truly nothing the defense can do (Manny Rameriez is the first batter in extra innings against a worn out pitcher who was the last in the bull pen). Basketball, soccer, and hockey are all very different games in which possession of the ball or puck changes by the second. Football is a game where a strong defense can and should be able to hold a team for 4 downs. If your defense does the job, your offense will get the chance.

[Mister J]

Doesn't the team that wins the coin flip only score 30% of the time or something like that?
I came across this on a Giants message board. Apparently, Jim Nantz and Phil Simms, after the Colts/Chargers game, had a discussion on overtime as it currently stands. These were the stats that were brought up:
27 yard line opening possession

Last 5 years (72 over Time Games)
39% on opening coin toss - There was no 2nd possession
62% of games are won by winner of opening coin toss

This year:
16 Over Time Games
8 teams won on opening drive (no second possession)One of the subsequent responses echoed my thoughts on the matter:
If am not mistaken I am reading this like this:
Last 5 years (72 over Time Games)
39% on opening coin toss - There was no 2nd possession (So 61% of the teams that lost the coin toss got a possession)

This year:
16 Over Time Games
8 teams won on opening drive (no second possession)(So the other 8 teams did get a possession and could have won the game on thier one possession)

I like it how it is. If you loose the coin toss then your D has to step up. No changes are necessary.
Another discussion on a Chargers board indicates that Nantz said it's likely the rule will be under review this offseason.
Watching Inside NFL and they had a debate between jim Nantz and Phil Simms. Nantz says that more than likely OT rules will be changed this offseason and it will be known as the "Peyton Manning Rule". What a ****ing joke.

Nantz wined and cried that it was not fair that Peyton did not have a chance. Simms brought up the point that only 50% of the OT games were won this year on the first drive, but Nantz still said it was not fair.

On another point, Simms brought up the PI call in OT. He said that Polian crying about the Patriots mugging their receivers is the reason the PI rules were changed, and the Colts can blame themselves for that call.

They said there is a poll on the OT question on Inside The NFL website for those that care.
That Chargers board is always entertaining.

[Addendum]

No one whines about the coin toss at the beginning of the game. I'm sure there's a stat about the win-loss percentage of whomever wins the toss. However, that stat doesn't take into consideration the individual players on either team, and how that unit performs. There is more to football than stats and probability. It's not like letting the computer simulate a season on Madden. Just like in the game, the defense and offense has to come through, the same is applicable during overtime but with tougher consequences.

You never hear the players whine about it

[Matt]

I came across this on a Giants message board. Apparently, Jim Nantz and Phil Simms, after the Colts/Chargers game, had a discussion on overtime as it currently stands. These were the stats that were brought up:
One of the subsequent responses echoed my thoughts on the matter:

Another discussion on a Chargers board indicates that Nantz said it's likely the rule will be under review this offseason.

That Chargers board is always entertaining.

If this rule is actually changed and named the Peyton Manning rule, I'm going to glsap every member of the rule committee. Then again, its Nantz saying it, so who knows? Jim Nantz and Phil Simms are the AICN of football.

Funny how the NFL and most announcers and analysts stand by the current overtime system and say the defense needs to make a play any time it has happened before, but when Peyton Manning is deprived and the media is deprived their circus that would've been a Manning brother Super Bowl, the rule needs changed?

[Go Web Go!]

I'd like to see both teams get the chance to score in OT. Don't let the outcome of a game rest on a coin. Yes, I know, they're professional defenses - and what? If one team scores on another's defense then let the opposite (professional) defense make a stop & preserve their team's win.

[Addendum]

The outcome isn't determined by a coin flip.

[Cmill216]

Don't let the outcome of a game rest on a coin.

It doesn't.

[Go Web Go!]

Not all the time, but don't the majority of the teams that win the toss score on the opening drive of OT.

[Matt]

Not all the time, but don't the majority of the teams that win the toss score on the opening drive of OT.

You must've missed the post that showed the statistic that only 39 % do.

[Immortalfire]

You must've missed the post that showed the statistic that only 39 % do.

You are such a badly joker.

[Go Web Go!]

I must have. Point I'm trying to make is that I don't think the game should be won with a flip of a coin - whether teams that win the toss score 39% or 75% of the time on the opening drive of OT. Give both teams a chance to score, both defenses a chance to preserve a win for their team, and while they're at it, do away with ties.

[Addendum]

You do know that since the rule change in 1974, there's only been a whopping 17 tie games, with only 4 after 1989. Compared to the amount of tie games before 1974, 17 ties in 35 years is nothing serious

[Cmill216]

Give both teams a chance to score

Both teams do have a chance to score.

[Mister J]

You never hear the players whine about it
True. Not even those who aren't familiar with all the intricacies of NFL overtime.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2851/sadmcnabbpc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Both teams do have a chance to score.
JzpowxGfVFE

[Go Web Go!]

You do know that since the rule change in 1974, there's only been a whopping 17 tie games, with only 4 after 1989. Compared to the amount of tie games before 1974, 17 ties in 35 years is nothing serious

That I do know. Doesn't change my opinion. I think they should be done away with. Where else in pro sports do you not have a game that ends in a win or loss?

Both teams do have a chance to score.

*Sigh*

You know what I mean. Quit being a smarty pants. :cmad:

[Addendum]

Futbol or Fußball (soccer for us in the states), Hockey, Boxing, Chess, Cricket, Horse Racing, Aussie Rules Football, Rugby League

[Go Web Go!]

Futbol or Fußball (soccer for us in the states), Hockey, Boxing, Chess, Cricket, Horse Racing, Aussie Rules Football, Rugby League

There you go. And that's why most of those sports, minus a couple, are all irrelevant in the US.

And (NHL) hockey games no longer end in ties.

[Addendum]

I don't think ties are the reason they're irrelevant.

[Go Web Go!]

No, it isn't, but the fact is that they are so you can't really compare them to the NFL.

[Addendum]

They're still sports that have professional players. Whether they being irrelevant or not to US sports leagues is a separate discussion. What matters is you asked "Where else in pro sports do you not have a game that ends in a win or loss?", and I gave several. Since the NHL uses shootouts, I'll cede hockey. That still leaves 7 sports, other than professional US football, that has games that end in a tie or draw.

[Go Web Go!]

Well, good job on the research but I was aiming for a sport (or sports) with the same high profile the NFL has (within the United States). I should have specified.

[Addendum]

By that standard, boxing and horse racing

[Holiday]

The title change to this thread made me spit a tiny bit of pizza on my computer screen.

[ih8nyy]

The title change to this thread made me spit a tiny bit of pizza on my computer screen.

I bet that's the first time food ever came OUT of your mouth! Eh Baby Mangino? :oldrazz:

[StorminNorman]

Leave it as is.

After playing 60 minutes of football to a standstill, a random toss of a coin doesn't come across like a dealbreaker. Don't give up a huge runback or let the offense drive ~50 yards for a FG or better. Go out and stop somebody.

I wish the NCAA would consider doing something to the college format. It turns a previously interesting game into a bloody circus.

College overtime is brilliant.

[Fresh Prince]

NCAA great the way it is man.