Episode 8 - 'Fall of the Blue Beetle!' Discussion Thread

[Mister J]

Batman must join forces with the new Blue Beetle and the original superhero to bear the name.
After ending up on Science Island, Dr. Polaris takes the Blue Beetle scarab to create an army of robots with it and Batman must join forces with the new and old Blue Beetle to take down Dr. Polaris and his army of Blue Beetle robots.
Blue Beetle traces his legacy back to the original Blue Beetle, to learn why the Scarab has chosen him to share in its powers and become a super hero. The journey leads him to the dangerous Science Island, where he battles legions of robots alongside Batman and learns the truth behind Ted Kord's disappearance.
Airing: January 23

Contrasting with the premiere episode, 'Rise of the Blue Beetle!'.
Looking forward to a Ted Kord appearance. :woot:

[DJ Kornphlake]

Isn't Dan Garrett the original BB?

[Mister J]

True, but it's Ted's name that I keep seeing mentioned in the show's media.

[3dman27]

appearantly mr kord is the original blue beetle in the BBB storyline

[KatarHol]

I know about Dan and Ted,but i'm not up to steam on the new guy. So.....is there a line of Blue Beetles outside of the regular DCU? Who's that statue of in the 'Rise of the Blue Beetle'? Is the more than one Scarab powered Beetle?
By the way,i'm a longtime comic fan who hasn't collected since the mid '90s but i am totally,completely,insanely in love with this show. My favorite comics are pre-Crisis DC and this show is like silver age crack to me......regardless of the new Beetle I've a 3 year old i'm trying to brain-wash into a comic nut and this show goes along way towards it,along with Spectacular Spidey.

[3dman27]

in the comics ted kord was a student of dan garrett the first blue beetle a magic powered hero
when he accidently caused prof. garrets death he wanted to make amends for it by becoming the second blue beetle,however the scarab medallion that granted magic powers to prof. garret was lost in an earthquake so ted used his gadgetry and gymnastic skills to create his own version of blue beetle

[KatarHol]

in the comics ted kord was a student of dan garrett the first blue beetle a magic powered hero
when he accidently caused prof. garrets death he wanted to make amends for it by becoming the second blue beetle,however the scarab medallion that granted magic powers to prof. garret was lost in an earthquake so ted used his gadgetry and gymnastic skills to create his own version of blue beetle
That was one of my favorite issues of Secret Origins,it was drawn by Gil Kane. So,concerning the new guy,In the comics,does he have a version of Dan's medallion or some other space medallion,like from statue of the other Beetle or could that be Dan(or Ted for the BAB continuity)? Sorry for the need of a lesson,i'm a Ted Kord guy,i do like the new guy though,He reminds me alittle of the Kord armor from Kingdom Come,especially the wings.

[toxinwaste]

From Wil's blog:
http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/wwdnbackup/2009/01/holy-hole-in-a-donut.html

Since Friday of last week, I've done about eleventy million interviews to support my episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Fall of the Blue Beetle, which airs next friday, January 23, at 8pm on Cartoon Network.

I recorded this episode several months ago, and I haven't been able to talk about it at all until now, because the only thing studios like more than keeping things secret is keeping things secret.

I think the bulk of the interviews I've done will start going online today and tomorrow, but I got official permission yesterday to pretty much say whatever I want, and since I've been waiting so long to say this, I'm saying it now: I play Ted Kord, the silver age Blue Beetle.

[toxinwaste]

Video clip and eleven hi-res stills from the upcoming Batman: The Brave and The Bold episode "Fall of the Blue Beetle!" (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=345)



P.S. - For people who are having a little trouble for finding the video clip (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/media/video/s01e08.php).

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Crazy theory about this episode.

What if the mad scientist that kidnaps Jaime and builds the Blue Beetle Robot army is revealed to be a vengeful Ted Kord

[Mister J]

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0901/17/index.htm
Cartoon Network has relaased a description, 13 images and a video preview from "Fall of the Blue Beetle!", the Friday, Jan 23 episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold on Cartoon Network.

Here's how the network describes the episode:

"Blue Beetle traces his legacy back to the original Blue Beetle, to learn why the Scarab has chosen him to share in its powers and become a super hero. The journey leads him to the dangerous Science Island, where he battles legions of robots alongside Batman and learns the truth behind Ted Kord's disappearance."

The guest voice cast includes Wil Wheaton as Ted Kord/ Silver Age Blue Beetle, Lex Lang as Dr. Polaris, Will Friedle as Jamie/Blue Beetle and Jason Marsden as Carlos.
I wasn't aware Dr. Polaris would be showing up here.

Let's get some of these caps up.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8545/batman1qy1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1841/batman3co6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3749/batman6bq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8378/batman9if3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3840/batman11kb9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1594/batman13oc4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1564/batman2ve1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[toxinwaste]

New Clip from "Fall of the Blue Beetle!" (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/media/video/s01e08.php)

[3dman27]

i liked thekord blue beetle man am i EVER gonna record THIS episode

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Mister J, where did you get the second synopsis, by any chance?

[Mister J]

Good ol' Wiki. :o

Although, reading over it, and a few others, I'm beginning to wonder where they come from. More often than not, they vary from the official descriptions from Cartoon Network, though having essentially the same information.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Good ol' Wiki. :o

Although, reading over it, and a few others, I'm beginning to wonder where they come from. More often than not, they vary from the official descriptions from Cartoon Network, though having essentially the same information.

True. Because I don't think Ted, Jaime, and Batman ALL team-up. I'm thinking its Ted/Batman for the teaser and Jaime/Batman for the main episode with Ted/Batman flashbacks.

As for Dr. Polaris, I doubt he's anything more than a side villain. Then again, I also have the insane theory that Ted is the main villain . The only way we'll find out is when the episode airs.

[Mister J]

The three man team-up does sound a bit more far-fetched. The official description from CN (third in the opening post) cuts away from that as well.

Kanjar Ro mentioned that he killed a Blue Beetle. Assuming the series isn't going to mention Dan, and given that Ted Kord's disappearance will be explained via the Batman/Jamie mission, the incorporation of flashbacks seems to factor in heavily.

Can't wait until Friday.

[Syncos]

The three man team-up does sound a bit more far-fetched. The official description from CN (third in the opening post) cuts away from that as well.

Kanjar Ro mentioned that he killed a Blue Beetle. Assuming the series isn't going to mention Dan, and given that Ted Kord's disappearance will be explained via the Batman/Jamie mission, the incorporation of flashbacks seems to factor in heavily.

Can't wait until Friday.

The beetle that the aliens had a statue of had the same scarab armor that Jamie has. in the clips online, Ted mentions he couldn't get the Scarab to work for him. That and the fact that we've seen Ted's costume and it looks nothing like the beetle that Kanjar Ro killed. I'm sure it's safe to assume that there was a beetle before Ted. It's quite possible that it was Dan.

[Mister J]

Thanks, Syncos. I was too lazy to check the statue from 'Rise of the Blue Beetle'.

Those clips are great. This looks to be one of the best character dynamics yet. Seriously. Can not wait to see this play out.

[SHADOWBAT69]

Wow. What an amazing episode. Animation was top notch all the way thru, story was brilliant. I loved the history of the Beetle "mantle". Im not an expert on BB, but I do believe they were true to the history?

[GamerSlyRatchet]

So, it looks I was wrong about Ted Kord being the villain, but instead his uncle Jarvis, who looks and sounds like him. I have never been more glad to be wrong. This was a rather clever twist, and it did allow for an excellent death scene for Ted.

There's no specific teaser for this episode, instead with consisting of the main story with Blue Beetle Jaime Reyes trying to find out about his legacy, with flashbacks showing Batman working with Blue Beetle Ted Kord. Ted was very entertaining in this episode. Like all heroes before him in the show, he had a special relationship with Batman. This one was the "gadget geek" one. It was well done.

The main story was also interesting. I loved the way they were leading us to believe Ted was the real villain, only to find out his uncle was impersonating him. Doctor Polaris had a really cool design, and I hope we see him again. The nods to Blue Beetle history were also cool and informative.

All in all, another excellent episode.


NEXT WEEK: In this week's teaser, Batman, along with feuding heroes Plastic Man and Elongated Man, fights the mad mobster known as Baby Face. Then, a fight with the Brain and Chemo leaves Batman poisoned. Now, the Atom and Aquaman must resolve their differences and team up to shrink down and cure Batman of this disease.

[Drz]

The Original and new Blue Beetle both are so much badass, at first i really didn't like Blue Beetle (the new kid) but he is progressing and learning to become a Superhero, and haha he was so awesome when he didn't even bother to help Batman vs. that magneto-robot-guy cuz it was just a "breakfest training" for Bats. =D This show is super!

[Blaztro]

This episode was awesome. My favorite episode of the series so far. I hope next week's is as good as this.

[robinjr]

I was talking to my friend who is also a fan of the brave and the bold and we thought of a way that Ted could have and just might have saved himself. He could have called the bug to save him in mid air and when he drove it back home he retired and disappeared. This would explain how the bug ended up getting back to the kord cave as I call it lol. You never know and it might just be a way the writers could bring some more ted kord goodness. Also there is a good amount of time between the time ted was on the rocket pulling apart its wires and the explosion so who knows

[3dman27]

I was talking to my friend who is also a fan of the brave and the bold and we thought of a way that Ted could have and just might have saved himself. He could have called the bug to save him in mid air and when he drove it back home he retired and disappeared. This would explain how the bug ended up getting back to the kord cave as I call it lol. You never know and it might just be a way the writers could bring some more ted kord goodness. Also there is a good amount of time between the time ted was on the rocket pulling apart its wires and the explosion so who knows you might be right i hope so

[Mister J]

These last two weeks have just been great and this ep quickly surpasses 'Dawn of the Deadman' as my favorite. I loved the legacy of the Blue Beetle and the scarab (I'm a sucker for legacy heroes anyway). From what I can tell, a lot of that was taken straight from the books; Dan meeting his demise with Ted at his side, Ted being unable to get the scarab to grant him powers and eventually turning it over to his uncle, Jarvis, to try to get it to 'work' and Jarvis trying to create any robot army to take over the world.

Ted's sacrifice and Jaime's maturation were standouts. The Kord/Batman interaction was highlight as well. Every bit as enjoyable as the dynamic with Green Arrow, but done in an entirely different manner.

Overall, a wonderful mix of humor, action, emotional depth and comicy goodness. :up:

[KatarHol]

OMG......i can't get over how much i've fallen in love with this show and this episode is the best one yet.
When this show was first announced,i really thought it was geared towards kids and the first episode kinda backed that up,but now i think it's geared for some major league Silver Age geeks like me. I tape this show for my 3 year old and now,i'm watching them more than he does and he LOVES this show. He loves Robin,i can't wait for him to see him. We were watching The Batman and while that
s a good show, i think he likes this more,as do i.
But anyone who thinks it's a kiddy show would be way off.......we've seen Bruce's parents killed,Wildcat suffer a heart-attack,Red Tornado explode,Ted Kord die,Boston Brand killed.......
I do wish Ted Kord had died this way in the comics,if he had to die at all(dammit).......PLUS a Dan Garrett cameo!! I wasn't expecting that!!! Bring on Bronze Tiger!

[Shocker 9000]

I enjoy this show soooo much, I actually enjoy it more than I do say... The Spectacular Spider-Man! And I am a waaaay bigger Marvel/Spidey fan than I am DC/Batman fan. In fact Batman is the only DC character I care about. But this show brings to light characters I've never heard of or cared about before and gets me to love em! Before this show I had no idea who Blue Beetle was? Now I think he's really cool! Same with Deadman and Wildcat.

And as far as the whole "Not-So-Dark-Knight" stuff, that's fine, we already got TAS, and we just got The Dark Knight movie. My fix for dark Batman has been met, and I'm lovin' Friendly silver-age Batman. His voice is great too, I was skeptical about the guy from Drew Carey at first but he's doing a great job.

Props to this show, possibly my favorite cartoon on TV right now.

[Syncos]

I really, really enjoyed this week's episode. It really is surprising how they manage to sneak in some pretty mature stuff hidden in the light tone of the show. wouldn't surprise me if the censors just don't bother looking, so they get away with it unchallenged. heh.

Ted's death was great. It was obviously a pretty touchy subject for Bruce, too.
Best episode by far.

Unfortunately next week's looks like drek.

[Dread]

Every series, even those that are mediocre, usually has one episode that is a clear "gem" episode, better than the rest by a high margin. For SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS back in the 80's, it was "ALONG CAME SPIDEY" from Season 2. BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD, which is in many ways a modern attempt at a more lighter hearted superhero show like many from the 80's, has had many action packed and entertaining episodes in it's debut season thus far. However, as good as last week's episode was, "FALL OF THE BLUE BEETLE" has been a perfect 10. Beyond just a great episode of the show, it is a solid work of DCU animation, period.

I must say, considering that I prefer the darker, more brooding and serious incarnation of Batman, the version for this show is growing on me. Despite being a "lighter" show, topics such as death and even murder are not ignored. Batman's origin was shown with more detail than JLU used for a Christmas episode, for chrissakes. Batman literally met the ghosts of his dead parents begging him to "let go" last week. This episode also includes themes of that in order to get into the legacy of the Blue Beetle, now on it's third generation. It isn't that this show ignores or abandons dark subject matter; it is that the characters don't obsess about it. The Batman in this show is just as motivated by the murder of his parents as other versions; he just hasn't obsessed about the trauma to the point where he can't occasionally make a joke or even enjoy the company of some fellow superheroes in the fight against justice.

This episode, though, has very little Batman; he appears almost by obligation. It is instead all about Jaimie Reyes, a.k.a. the Blue Beetle, the only hero who has shown up on the show almost as often as Batman's rival, the Green Arrow. A rookie hero voiced by BATMAN BEYOND/KIM POSSIBLE star Will Friedle empowered by his alien armor, Jaimie is still getting used to the idea of being a superhero and is having a debate in El Paso with his buddy, Paco (Jason Marsden). Arguing over the true origin of the Green Lantern, Jaimie gets it almost right, although his friend Paco dismisses the idea that a green lantern ring could somehow "choose" a "worthy" person, instead attributing it to luck and circumstance. This offends Jaimie in ways his friend does not know, as the young Reyes is seeking a reason for why he was empowered by the scarab.

In the teaser, which ties into the entire episode, set two years ago, sees Batman teamed up with the former Blue Beetle, Ted Kord. Voiced by Wil Weaton (best known for ST:TNG but also a voice actor, who has played Aqualad on TEEN TITANS among other roles), this is the first time Ted has appeared in any animation, despite his pal Booster Gold managing to show up in JLU. The design for Beetle here is spot-on to Ditko's and the dynamic he has with Batman is interesting. Unlike Green Arrow, who has a rivalry with Batman in trying to "top" him, and unlike the modern comics, where Batman usually dismissed Kord as a clown, on this show the duo are more like peers, comparing notes on their various gadgets and weapons. Both, of course, share a few similarities. A death of someone close to them inspires them. Lacking super-powers, they both rely on their own combat knowledge and an arsenal of themed gadgets. While Kord has more of a sense of humor than Batman, ol' Bats isn't unaccustomed to the Beetle himself. Of course, knowing the modern comics and so forth, we know that Kord's story doesn't have a happy ending.

Interupting a fight against Dr. Polaris (Lex Lang), a villain who just showed up in the BLUE BEETLE comic (which has been canceled after 36 issues, the last of which should ship next month), Blue Beetle implores Batman to tell him more about the prior Blue Beetle and more about the scarab. His Batarang full with trying to tackle a magnetic supervillain (whose design here is MUCH better than the moldie-oldie design that JLU trucked out for it's last season), Batman dismisses Reyes, who strikes out on his own. Finding the headquarters of the prior Blue Beetle, as well as his dust-covered gadgets and "Bug" multi-function hovercraft, Reyes hacks the software to return to the last place where Ted Kord went. Convinced that he will either find answers, or the last generation's Beetle, Reyes strikes out, ignoring a warning from Batman (who actually was almost apologetic; what IS this show's Batman? He almost acts human!).

Reyes winds up at an island full of Blue Beetle themed robots and a bearded man, who claims to be Ted Kord himself. It is in fact Jarvis Kord, voiced by Tim Matheson (who sounds enough like Wheaton to make the trick work for a bit). In fact Ted Kord's uncle, he convinces Jaimie that he was chosen specifically as the Blue Beetle and that his armada of robots is out to cure the world's ills, if only he uses the scarab to empower them. Satisfied, Reyes complies, unaware that Batman's memories of his last team-up with Ted Kord reveal that they were trying to stop a masked man from utilizing the scarab for evil purposes. When Reyes stumbles across the weaponry of the robots, he finally realizes that Jarvis is hardly on the level. Seemingly defeated, he and Batman have to team up to save the day, and the world.

Considering Ted's murder at the hands of Max Lord in the comics (COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS, circa 2005), I was curious how the demise of the prior Blue Beetle would be handled. Aside for the detail about the ending (to make it fit into the episode better), the origin is very faithful to both DC comics and even the material that Steve Ditko wrote for the character in CHARLTON COMICS, circa 1967. Inspired by the death of the "Golden Age" Blue Beetle, Dan Garret, Ted was unable to access the scarab but instead utilizes his own smarts and cunning to become a superhero. His uncle Jarvis sought to take over Hub City with his army of robots, which Ted sacrificed himself to stop via a rocket. Batman had kept this from Jaimie because he was unaware how the youth would handle the fact that "not all heroes have happy endings". Hey, that's damn hardcore for a "light" series.

Sufficiently motivated by the revelation, Reyes utilizes his powers and a little smarts to blow up the island and save the world. Inspired by the fact that the alien scarab only opened completely for Reyes (Garret only obtained enhanced strength from it, and Kord was unable to access it at all), Reyes feels better about his origins, and wins approval from Batman.

Reyes in the comics spent, oh, about a year and a half searching for his true origins to get to this point, and at times it drug on, so I don't mind this 22 minute version. I will be curious if we ever get to see his ally, Peacemaker.

There is, of course, a chance for a Beetle duo appearance, as Ted Kord's body was conveniently never found. That would be frickin' AWESOME.

While the show is about Batman, this episode provided a key cog in the character growth of the new Blue Beetle. Some wonder how his now-canceled book will react to the increased media attention. I simply am enjoying a DC cartoon that seems to value a lot of B, C, and D list heroes, rather than giving us Superman or Wonder Woman all the time; Batman is the biggest hero who appears on the show, and he doesn't always hog the episodes, either. Above all, I am actually getting used to a Batman who is more of a superhero than a night-time vigilante and it isn't boring to me. Batman has been a traditional superhero for just as long as he was a DARK KNIGHT RETURNS style brooder, after all; only this time without the burden of bad animation, terrible lines, and being legally deputized. Even the bit with the evil uncle, Jarvis Kord, is straight from the Ditko written/drawn pages of the CHALTON COMICS; between this and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, people in the biz are sure showing Ditko's stuff some love on TV.

Over all, a great episode that perfectly captured the legacy aspect without ignoring the concept of death for a network TV audience. It also provided more development for Jaimie Reyes on the show. While the format allows Batman to team up with various heroes, it is good to have a loose rotating cast that continues to show up a few times, such as Green Arrow, Beetle, or as next week will show, Aquaman.

This is a fun show, and thankfully, this show is often proving that "fun" doesn't have to be a synonym for "shallow" or "stupid". I am enjoying the break from bleakness more than I expected from the franchise, and this cartoon, while not as good as SPECTECULAR SPIDER-MAN or even WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, is a better effort right now than LEGION OF SUPERHEROES was to a degree, and may prove to be better than THE BATMAN as well. It has been a very pleasant surprise.

[Shocker 9000]

IMO this show has already proved itself far better than "The Batman", I just have very little respect for that incarnation, too kid friendly while trying to be dark.

This show was just a big surprise hit for me, I never enjoyed JLU like I do this show. See, I'm not at all a DC fan, just a Batman fan. At first I though of this show as what would probably be a lame attempt to shine light on DC's less than popular characters. And not being a DC fan I figured that even if the show was good, that it probably wouldn't be my cup of tea.

Boy was I wrong. The show is funny, loyal to it's source material (so I hear and read), it develops it's reaccuring characters well, and does Batman justice in a way not seen for many years. After TDK I felt like I was getting sick of super dark Batman, so this show is very refreshing. I was worried it would be corny and lame, but the show is funny and has lots of heart.

I consider The Spectacular Spider-Man to be a better show overall. But, I find myself enjoying this show far more, given that I don't know most of the characters. TSSM, lets me down cause I know so much about Spidey, or I can see where things are going. But this show surprises me every week.

[Cain]

I enjoyed this one more than the last Blue Beetle episode particularly because they handled the representation of the legacy aspect so damn well. However I still prefer the Deadman episode to this one. I did like the sci-fi vibe of it all though with a blue scarab run island and such. I also liked how like in the comic books they didn't downplay that Ted died before Jaime became BB.

I think Ted's death here was superior to the one in the comic books but obviously the one in the books had a narrative point when it came to Infinite Crisis so it's still important. This did have me thinking that perhaps a Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle spinoff toon wouldn't be such a bad idea though. Now that his comic book series is cancelled especially it'd be good to have him in the public consciousness somehow the character has potential in any medium.

[Rowen]

This episode was okay for me. Im not really blue beetle fan, so i diddn't get all giggity with jamie trying to find out more on why he got the blue scarab. other people probabaly enjoyed this episode much more than i did. but hey what can you do.