81st Annual Academy Awards

[Ziggyman]

Really enjoyed it...Hugh was great...Opening was great...The big musical number kinda tanked...Mostly because of Beyonce!

But it was fun...Jack, Ben, Seth, James were pretty funny...

Only thing I wanted in hindsight...A musical number by Will Ferrell and Jack Black!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoXLu9Rz70g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5JAPkvnyso

And Amy Adams was amazing...So hot, s beautiful in red!!!

[04nbod]

What really drags the academy awards down are the adverts. They make an already long ceremony unbearable

[Watson]

Yeah, Bill only seemed to be there so he could promote his own documentary.

Or complain about it not being nominated. He's as bad as some TDK fanboys :woot:

[StrainedEyes]

Oh what, 30 Rock???

BORING!!!

Yeesh.

[LastSunrise1981]

Or maybe as Kate Winslet said "A holocaust movie equals Oscar"
DPTV8PZo-Tc

I remember reading that the Academy was going to give her an Oscar as a sympathy gift.

But in all seriousness, when did the Academy become grounds for ass kissing and politics? You have great performances like Mickey Rourke that had a much deeper message in it, only to be snubbed by a performance that tells the true story of an openly gay politician.

It just seems nowadays, as you stated, a Holocaust film, political films, or a film with three hours of just talking gets more recognition than a film with sincere raw emotion like The Wrestler. It just goes to show that you can give a great performance and still get snubbed by the snobs in the Academy.

[Dr. Evil]

Really enjoyed it...Hugh was great...Opening was great...The big musical number kinda tanked...Mostly because of Beyonce!

But it was fun...Jack, Ben, Seth, James were pretty funny...

Only thing I wanted in hindsight...A musical number by Will Ferrell and Jack Black!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoXLu9Rz70g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5JAPkvnyso

And Amy Adams was amazing...So hot, s beautiful in red!!!

There probably would have been a musical number with the two if Ferrell wasn't busy playing Dubya on Broadway.

[Raiden]

That Best Picture montage reminded me that I need to see A Beautiful Mind again.

How come Saving Pvt. Ryan was in the Best Picture montage? It didn't win Best Picture (Shakespeare in Love did), although like Brokeback Mtn. it definitely deserved it that year.

As for Slumdog, I don't really know why it won't all these Oscars esp. Best Picture. I think it's overrated.

[Gilpesh]

Is it just me.... or should a bio-pic never be up for best original screenplay?

[DACrowe]

Well an utterly boring Oscars where I think I call 99% of the awards. I'm going to have to go dig up my prediction list. I wish BB won best picture and that Hathaway got actress. Or better yet, TDK was nominated for best picture.

Oh well, glad Sean Penn won for Milk and Ledger for TDK and thought Jackman was a great host and the best the Oscars' have had since Crystal and Steve Martin quit doing them.

[Dr. Evil]

The Dark Knight will get a bunch of nominations at the MTV Movie Awards anyways. Although I don't know if that's a good thing.

[Dark Donnie]

Had Rourke won I get the feeling we'd have never heard from him again. Those first time winners just seem to vanish after they win it. Hopefully Rourke sticks around... not to win an Oscar obviously... but just to show that he is back and here to stay.

Difference is though Rourke is known as one of the better actors of his generation....a win would have secured him some good roles I think.

[Captain Planet!]

The Oscars sucked this year. :down:csad:


The only good things were Hugh Jackman, Ben Stiller, Will Smith making fun of the Academy, and Ledger.

[Raiden]

Difference is though Rourke is known as one of the better actors of his generation....a win would have secured him some good roles I think.

Both him and Robert Downey Jr. had a good comeback year. I expect both actors to stick around for quite some time.

[Dr. Evil]

RDJ may have a another shot next year with "The Soloist" featuring Jamie Foxx or with Sherlock Holmes.

[Ziggyman]

RDJ may have a another shot next year with "The Soloist" featuring Jamie Foxx or with Sherlock Holmes.

Hell no!

Both look like doo-doo to me...

Reshoots of Sherlock had to happen because it was reportedly..."unimpressive"!

[Sawyer]

RDJ may have a another shot next year with "The Soloist" featuring Jamie Foxx or with Sherlock Holmes.

Yeah, I'm suuure Sherlock Holmes is going to be nominated. :whatever:

:oldrazz:

[danoyse]

But in all seriousness, when did the Academy become grounds for ass kissing and politics?

They always were. Where have you been?

You have great performances like Mickey Rourke that had a much deeper message in it, only to be snubbed by a performance that tells the true story of an openly gay politician.

It just seems nowadays, as you stated, a Holocaust film, political films, or a film with three hours of just talking gets more recognition than a film with sincere raw emotion like The Wrestler. It just goes to show that you can give a great performance and still get snubbed by the snobs in the Academy.

I thought you hadn't seen The Wrestler yet.

I'm disappointed Mickey didn't win because he was my favorite in that category, but I thought Sean's performance in Milk was outstanding. If Mickey had to lose to anyone, I'm glad it was him.

Milk was a terrific film - it had moments that were both incredibly moving, and incredibly infuriating. One of the things that made it particularly poignant was that you can't help think that if Harvey Milk hadn't been assassinated, maybe we wouldn't be stuck dealing with this same discrimination against the gay community that goes on today.

[Andreth]

Lol at Seth Rogen laughing when James Franco messes up the name of the winner :hehe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_7cWW2f44Y

[Dr. Evil]

I'm still waiting for the Charlie Sheen comeback.

[Watson]

Hell no!

Both look like doo-doo to me...

Reshoots of Sherlock had to happen because it was reportedly..."unimpressive"!

That rumour was debunked by numerous sources :o

[Sawyer]

I'm still waiting for the Charlie Sheen comeback.

I'm still waiting for Two and Half Men to die.

[StrainedEyes]

Difference is though Rourke is known as one of the better actors of his generation....a win would have secured him some good roles I think.

A nomination isn't something to sneeze at. It will get him plenty of good roles, as long as he wants them.

[Dr. Evil]

So, who do you want to see make a major comeback next year?

[bullets]

Lol at Seth Rogen laughing when James Franco messes up the name of the winner :hehe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_7cWW2f44Y


:lmao: I love how Rogen just can't help it.

[Dr. Evil]

A nomination isn't something to sneeze at. It will get him plenty of good roles, as long as he wants them.

Hopefully he doesn't go the Michael Clarke Duncan route.

I mean seriously, Street Fighter?

[Gamma Ray]

Every year the academy manages to find a movie to over rate. Slumdog was good, but in no way amazing or different.

[bullets]

So, who do you want to see make a major comeback next year?


I want to see Robert DeNiro get another oscar.

[Dr. Evil]

Next:

The mediocrity of the MTV Movie Awards, which will mean multiple nominations for The Dark Knight......and another Best Male Performance Nomination for Will Smith.

[Sawyer]

So, who do you want to see make a major comeback next year?

Tim Burton. Yes, Tim Burton. I want him to make a film that people will take seriously. Not another carbon copy of the last five films he's made (as much as I may enjoy them).

[bullets]

Every year the academy manages to find a movie to over rate. Slumdog was good, but in no way amazing or different.


I thought it was different . Also most people enjoy the film.

[Dr. Evil]

I would like a Mel Gibson comeback.

[Dark Donnie]

I would like a Mel Gibson comeback.

Did you see him on Kimmel tonight? Hilarious. :lmao:

[DACrowe]

Or maybe as Kate Winslet said "A holocaust movie equals Oscar"
DPTV8PZo-Tc

Thank you for that. Hilarious as it was so true. I didn't realize she admitted it though. I wish Streep or Hathaway had won this year.

[bullets]

Tim Burton. Yes, Tim Burton. I want him to make a film that people will take seriously. Not another carbon copy of the last five films he's made (as much as I may enjoy them).


Well Johnny Depp did get a nomination for Sweeney Todd if that helps anything.

[DACrowe]

Tim Burton. Yes, Tim Burton. I want him to make a film that people will take seriously. Not another carbon copy of the last five films he's made (as much as I may enjoy them).

Considering Sweeney Todd is the best film of his career (arguable as Ed Wood was also a masterwork from the eccentric) and that wasn't even nominated for best picture, I doubt the Academy will recognize his amazing skill until late in his life with a "lifetime achievement award."

I mean he already made his "normal movie," which was damn good for the record and left the door open to be more accessible to Oscar voters and it was Big Fish. They ignored it. So, he is going to keep doing what he is doing and they'll recognize him after his already amazing list of movies gets bigger.

[DACrowe]

An old post I made three weeks ago in another thread:

QUOTE=DACrowe;16405900]WHO WILL WIN:

Best Picture: Slumdog Millionaire
Best Director: Danny Boyle
Best Actor: Sean Penn
Best Actress: Kate Winslet
Best Supporting Actor: Heath Ledger
Best Supporting Actress: Viola Davis The one upset
Best Adapted Screenplay: Slumdog Millionaire
Best Original Screenplay: Milk
Best Original Score: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button One undeserving Oscar I did not think Slumdog would get
Best Original Song: Slumdog Millionaire (Jai Ho)
Best Animated Film: Wall-E
Best Make-Up: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Best Visual Effects: The Dark Knight
Best Editing: Slumdog Millionaire
Best Cinematography: Slumdog Millionaire

[/QUOTE]

Wow. Just dug up this old post. Showing the predictability of Oscar Politics I was 13/15 on the awards. :eek: :whatever:

[DACrowe]

An old post I made three weeks ago in another thread:

WHO WILL WIN:

Best Picture: Slumdog Millionaire
Best Director: Danny Boyle
Best Actor: Sean Penn
Best Actress: Kate Winslet
Best Supporting Actor: Heath Ledger
Best Supporting Actress: Viola Davis The one upset
Best Adapted Screenplay: Slumdog Millionaire
Best Original Screenplay: Milk
Best Original Score: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button One undeserving Oscar I did not think Slumdog would get
Best Original Song: Slumdog Millionaire (Jai Ho)
Best Animated Film: Wall-E
Best Make-Up: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Best Visual Effects: The Dark Knight
Best Editing: Slumdog Millionaire
Best Cinematography: Slumdog Millionaire



Wow. Just dug up this old post. Showing the predictability of Oscar Politics I was 13/15 on the awards. :eek: :whatever:

[BatJeff7786]

Every year the academy manages to find a movie to over rate. Slumdog was good, but in no way amazing or different.
So what deserved it then?

[Spider-Fan]

Burton has made several films that deserved recognition, but alas. He is not an Oscar type. However, I thought the awards went mostly to the right people. Some may be upset Rourke lost, but I was 50-50 on who I wanted to win based on their performances. Penn deserved the award too.

All in all, solid show :up:

[Sawyer]

Honestly, any movie, any movie that wins as much awards as Slumdog did, would most likely be called over-rated by a majority of people on the hype.

[Gilpesh]

Honestly, any movie, any movie that wins as much awards as Slumdog did, would most likely be called over-rated by a majority of people on the hype.

It was only overrated in the category that it stole from Wall-E. Cause Wall-E deserved both the sound awards.

[Spider-Fan]

It was only overrated in the category that it stole from Wall-E. Cause Wall-E deserved both the sound awards.

It is shocking how much I seem to agree with you man :wow:

Wall-E got robbed in the sound categories. Though I expected it.

[Gilpesh]

It is shocking how much I seem to agree with you man :wow:

Wall-E got robbed in the sound categories. Though I expected it.

The thing I didn't expect... Dark Knight beating it. Of all the pity oscars they could have gave to the Dark Knight on the technical side... they gave away the one that Wall-E should have won.

[Spider-Fan]

The thing I didn't expect... Dark Knight beating it. Of all the pity oscars they could have gave to the Dark Knight on the technical side... they gave away the one that Wall-E should have won.

Agreed. When TDK won that, I said huh? Of all the movie's to beat it for a sound award, TDK was not my first thought.

Wall-E I definately felt got overlooked for many awards. I knew it would lose Original Screenplay to Milk since Milk was nominated for BP, but I was pulling for it. I also still feel Wall-E should have gotten that 5th nomination for BP over The Reader. I'm glad Wall-E won Best Animated Film, but that is an award it had no real competition for.

I love that damn robot :csad:

[Gilpesh]

Milk shouldn't have won original screenplay.... seriously a bio-pic is the best screenplay?

All four of the other screenplays got snubbed on that one...

[Spider-Fan]

Milk shouldn't have won original screenplay.... seriously a bio-pic is the best screenplay?

All four of the other screenplays got snubbed on that one...

I kind of agree. A person's life may not be a book or other medium, but it is still working from a source. Wall-E and the other films were created in the minds of filmmaker's and were completely original creations. While I felt Milk was one of the two best films nominated this year, I do feel Wall-E deserved the Original Screenplay Oscar.

[Gilpesh]

Here's where we disagree.... I was rooting for In Bruges.

[Spider-Fan]

Here's where we disagree.... I was rooting for In Bruges.

I have yet to see In Bruges. Perhaps had I seen it, we would agree :up:

It is high on my list of movies to check out though.

[Gilpesh]

Let's see... here's my list of Oscars got it wrong:

Original Screenplay: All four would have been better than Milk (my personal preference being In Bruges)
Makeup: Hellboy 2.... how do you not give the Oscar to a movie where it pretty much used makeup to create amazing creatures without using CGI... and instead give it to Button which (yes, I am giving it no credit with the next statement) just aged/de-aged people...
Visual Effects: Iron Man.... seriously.... again with the Button love that was pretty much only used to age and de-age Brad Pitt....
Sound Editing: Wall-E.... as much as I wanted Dark Knight to get something
Sound Mixing: Wall-E.... screw Slumdog, it already is getting enough other Oscars... it doesn't need this category also for the whack fest....
Best Actor: :dry: Rourke. Come on.

[Spider-Fan]

Let's see... here's my list of Oscars got it wrong:

Original Screenplay: All four would have been better than Milk (my personal preference being In Bruges)
Makeup: Hellboy 2.... how do you not give the Oscar to a movie where it pretty much used makeup to create amazing creatures without using CGI... and instead give it to Button which (yes, I am giving it no credit with the next statement) just aged/de-aged people...
Visual Effects: Iron Man.... seriously.... again with the Button love that was pretty much only used to age and de-age Brad Pitt....
Sound Editing: Wall-E.... as much as I wanted Dark Knight to get something
Sound Mixing: Wall-E.... screw Slumdog, it already is getting enough other Oscars... it doesn't need this category also for the whack fest....
Best Actor: :dry: Rourke. Come on.

I agree with all those except Best Actor. I felt either Penn or Rourke were acceptable to me personally. Had Rourke won, I would have been happy. Penn won, so I don't feel like I can complain after seeing Milk.

[Carmine Falcone]

Damn! I wanted In Bruges to win for best original screenplay! And how the **** did The Dark Knight not win Cinematogrphy? For the fact that it is revolutionary (IMAX cameras and all that) alone it deserves an oscar, not to mention that it is damn ****ing good.

[StrainedEyes]

Wall-E did deserve both sound awards. The first half of that movie is entirely made of pure sound effects, and it's all fantastic.

[Red Cherry Lips]

Just so damn STOKED!!!!! :up:

Japanese film 'Departures' wins Oscar for Best Foreign Language Film (http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/news/20090223p2a00m0na005000c.html)

If this film comes to a cinema near you go and see it. That's how good it is. I am still jumping for joy this won!!!! :applaud

Here's the official English site http://www.departures-themovie.com/press.html

[TheFuture]

Best Picture
-The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
-Frost/Nixon
-Milk
-The Reader
-Slumdog Millionaire


I have seen all five of these films.

In regards to Benjamin Button and Milk I enjoyed both films mainly due to the endeavours of the leading actors in their respective roles. And that is the problem. When you put Sean Penn and Brad Pitt away from the equation, what you have are two films that just aren't phenomenal in regards to the actual plot. Too many times in both films did I feel the story was lacking a specific focus. If we take Milk for example half the focus was on the gay rights movement while the other half was on Harvey Milk, the man behind the movement. By giving an equal footing to both aspects it simply ended up with an underdeveloped plot and I don't think that should fly in the Best Picture category. In the case of Bejamin Button, it felt more like a character study than a well developed story.

The Reader didn't impress me and I think its' nomination is typical of what the Oscars stand for in the modern age.

I think this should be between Slumdog Millionaire and Frost/Nixon. Slumdog Millionaire tackled themes of love, religion and class brilliantly. It is also a film that has its' strength in the actual story, rather than depending on the characters to keep the plot plodding along. While Frost/Nixon served up a tight plot coupled with delicious acting. It's a toss up, it really is, but I hope Slumdog Millionaire edges it.



Best Director
-David Fincher-The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
-Ron Howard-Frost/Nixon
-Gus Van Sant-Milk
-Stephen Daldry-The Reader
-Danny Boyle-Slumdog Millionaire


Danny Boyle should be the victor with perhaps David Fincher as his closest rival. I may not of been bowled over by the actual story in Benjamin Button, but it really was beautifully shot.

Best Actor
-Richard Jenkins-The Visitor
-Frank Langella-Frost/Nixon
-Sean Penn-Milk
-Brad Pitt-The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
-Mickey Rourke-The Wrestler


Mickey Rourke simply for bringing a character devastatingly alive. I bought every last bit of his performance, from the execution of the dialogue right down to the broken down physique. Bloody brilliant.

Sean Penn is also a worthy victor but I think he has done better, specifically in Mystic River. I honestly believe Rourke gave the more memorable performance.


Best Actress
-Anne Hathaway-Rachel Getting Married
-Angelina Jolie-Changeling
-Melissa Leo-Frozen River
-Meryl Streep-Doubt
-Kate Winslet-The Reader


Angelina Jolie for me, Clint Eastwood is at a stage now in his career where everything he touches turns into gold. I've seen Doubt and The Reader also so I have a good enough insight into the category.



Best Supporting Actor
-Josh Brolin-Milk
-Robert Downey Jr-Tropic Thunder
-Phillip Seymour Hoffman-Doubt
-Heath Ledger-The Dark Knight
-Michael Shannon-Revolutionary Road


Heath Ledger and Phillip Seymour Hoffman to duke it out, with Heath Ledger just edging it due to merit, circumstance and the fact Hoffman in my eyes unjustly won over him in 2005.

Still can't get over Downey jr.'s and Brolin's nomination in this category. Methinks the Academy purposedly watered down this category to make Heath's possible win more believable (not that his performance needs any extra help:cwink:).


Best Supporting Actress
-Amy Adams-Doubt
-Penelope Cruz-Vicky Cristina Barcelona
-Viola Davis-Doubt
-Taraji P. Henson-The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
-Marisa Tomei-The Wrestler

Seen three out of five performances. Long story short Tomei should win it, but Penelope Cruz will win it.



Best Adapted Screenplay
-The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
-Doubt
-Frost/Nixon
-The Reader
-Slumdog Millionaire



Slumdog Millionaire.


Best Original Screenplay
-Frozen River
-Happy-Go-Lucky
-In Bruges
-Milk
-WALL-E

In Bruges I would love to see be victorious. But I believe Milk will win simply due to how much time that has been put into it to get it right.

Nuts, I got the two big ones wrong. Meh, I was confident that Slumdog would get Best Song and Score, so taking everything into account not a bad night of predictions I suppose.:oldrazz:

[Hunter Rider]

In the cold reflection of the morning after, some Oscar thoughts:

I liked the new more lighthearted format and I enjoyed Jackman's effortless showmanship and the musical numbers.

Danny Boyle gave the best speech of the big winners I felt, both actress' speeches were predictably cloying. I thought Heath's family gave a tasteful and classy acceptance speech.

The Black/Aniston and Portman/Stiller combos were the best of the night and Will Smith was the best of the solo presenters.

The idea of five previous winners putting over a nominee each was ok in concept, but since it was little more than a "you're doing this one, here's your lines" deal, it came off mostly as a uncomfortable excercise.

Rourke was robbed, Penn's was a good performance but it was simply PC reasons he won and then stood on his soap box for what seemed like an hour. Bottom line is Rourke's performance was once in a lifetime stuff, Penn's was just good.

Winslet looked great and her speech was just tolerable, but I thought Hathaway should have won b/c again like Rourke's, her performance was raw and felt real, acting at it's best.

Slumdog winning everything......yeah ok with me, I don't think it was the best picture of the year and I doubt it will be remembered in 5 years but it was the best of the 5 nominees IMO.

Tomei should have won supporting but Penelope is a lovey so it was obvious she would get it, Ledger got his due thankfully.

As for the clips at the end, the only one that really grabbed me was the Public Enemies one.

[The Joker]

F**king delighted that Heath won the Oscar. Well deserved in every way. The Joker got the last laugh :hoboj:

And to the couple of people who said it was a pity Oscar.....*Lick* your bitterness tastes so sweet! :D

[Nivek]

Didn't watch, no regrets.

[scifiwolf]

Wonder how many people actually tuned in last night? Have there been any numbers yet?

[Bim]

Well i can honestly say i hadnt enjoyed an Academy Awards as much as i enjoyed last night's show.

I thought Jackman did fantastic, and the openning number had me on the floor laughing. I really liked how they approached this, and it was the first time i dont flip thru different channels while awards i'm not interested in were handed out. I watched the whole thing!

I havent watched all the movies, so i cant really comment on some of the winners... i'm very very happy Heath won though, that simply just made my night.

[scifiwolf]

As frustrated as I have been with some of the nominations and winners, I must admit the show itself was quite good. The presentations with 5 presenters kind of dragged on, but that was about it. Hugh Jackman, Jack Black, Rogen/Franco, and Ben Stiller made the show. They should go on the road or something.

[Bad Supe's Girl]

Well i can honestly say i hadnt enjoyed an Academy Awards as much as i enjoyed last night's show.

I thought Jackman did fantastic, and the openning number had me on the floor laughing. I really liked how they approached this, and it was the first time i dont flip thru different channels while awards i'm not interested in were handed out. I watched the whole thing!

I havent watched all the movies, so i cant really comment on some of the winners... i'm very very happy Heath won though, that simply just made my night.

I agree with this post 100%. I didn't watch any of the pics up for best picture, but I really enjoyed the show last night. I though Hugh did an amazing job not only with the singing and dancing, but with all the hosting duties. I would be very suprised if the Oscar viewership was NOT up over last years numbers.

[Prison Mike]

the only awards I was surprised with were the sound awards (as much as I liked Slumdog and TDK, I thought Wall-E deserved it), the Visual Effects Award (Iron Man deserved it damn it!) and Best Actor though I haven't seen Milk yet so I can't really judge fairly.

[Dark Donnie]

In the cold reflection of the morning after, some Oscar thoughts:

I liked the new more lighthearted format and I enjoyed Jackman's effortless showmanship and the musical numbers.

Danny Boyle gave the best speech of the big winners I felt, both actress' speeches were predictably cloying. I thought Heath's family gave a tasteful and classy acceptance speech.

The Black/Aniston and Portman/Stiller combos were the best of the night and Will Smith was the best of the solo presenters.

The idea of five previous winners putting over a nominee each was ok in concept, but since it was little more than a "you're doing this one, here's your lines" deal, it came off mostly as a uncomfortable excercise.

Rourke was robbed, Penn's was a good performance but it was simply PC reasons he won and then stood on his soap box for what seemed like an hour. Bottom line is Rourke's performance was once in a lifetime stuff, Penn's was just good.

Winslet looked great and her speech was just tolerable, but I thought Hathaway should have won b/c again like Rourke's, her performance was raw and felt real, acting at it's best.

Slumdog winning everything......yeah ok with me, I don't think it was the best picture of the year and I doubt it will be remembered in 5 years but it was the best of the 5 nominees IMO.

Tomei should have won supporting but Penelope is a lovey so it was obvious she would get it, Ledger got his due thankfully.

As for the clips at the end, the only one that really grabbed me was the Public Enemies one.

Natalie Portman :heart: Stiller's Joaquin Phoenix was hilarious :lmao:

I also loved Rogen and Franco.

I to thought Rourke should have won.....loved his performance. Sean Penn and his constant need to stress his politics annoy me at times, however I did like his tip of the hat to Rourke. That was classy.

I thought Jackman was great as the host, hopefully the ratings reflect it. The the 5 presenters for the acting categories, I did like seeing some of the older greats up there (Deniro :up:) but I agree that could have been cut a little perhaps.

[the_ultimate_evil]

i agree with some of the winners, though most are just typical academy crap playing it safe and sucking up to certain genres and groups

[Kud-Dukan]

Well, here are my predictions for tonight. Some I'm really not too sure about, but we'll see what happens...

Best Picture - Slumdog Millionaire
Best Director - Danny Boyle, Slumdog Millionaire
Best Actor - Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler
Best Actress - Kate Winslet, The Reader
Best Supporting Actor - Heath Ledger, The Dark Knight
Best Supporting Actress - Penelope Cruz, Vicky Cristina Barcelona
Foreign Language Film - Waltz With Bashir
Adapted Screenplay - Slumdog Millionaire
Original Screenplay - Milk
Animated Feature Film - Wall-E
Art Direction - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Cinematography - Slumdog Millionaire
Sound Mixing - The Dark Knight
Sound Editing - The Dark Knight
Original Score - Slumdog Millionaire
Original Song - Jai Ho, Slumdog Millionaire
Costume Design - The Duchess
Film Editing - Slumdog Millionaire
Makeup - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Visual Effects - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Documentary Feature - Man on Wire
Documentary (Short) - The Witness-From the Balcony of Room 306
Animated Short Film - Presto
Live Action Short Film - Spielzeugland (Toyland)

Well I got 19/24...I was wrong about:
Documentary (short)
Animated Short Film
Sound Mixing
Foreign Language Film
Best Actor

I was shocked about Sound Mixing because I thought that either the Dark Knight or Wall-E had that in the bag. Best Actor...I was actually rooting for Sean Penn, but I thought it would be Rourke's year, so I'm not too upset about that.

[SuperT]

I am so GIDDY that Slumdog swept up pretty much everything. I loved that movie so much.

I'm so happy for Dev, Frieda, and all the other little kiddies that were a big part of it.

[Tron Bonne]

Rourke was robbed, Penn's was a good performance but it was simply PC reasons he won and then stood on his soap box for what seemed like an hour. Bottom line is Rourke's performance was once in a lifetime stuff, Penn's was just good.

Truth

Slumdog winning everything......yeah ok with me, I don't think it was the best picture of the year and I doubt it will be remembered in 5 years but it was the best of the 5 nominees IMO.

I doubt it'll even be really remembered by most within a years time. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised at all if most people don't even know what it is now

[StrainedEyes]

I didn't mind Penn's speech. Considering that he won for a movie playing a gay rights activist, coupled with the writer's speech earlier in the evening, coupled with the ridiculous situation in California involving gay marriage and the apparent protesters near the event, I think it was only right to mention it all.

[Lunar_Wolf]

I agree with most people here that In Bruges should of bagged it.

[echostation]

rourke got robbed plain and simple... ****ing idiotic

[TLH]

Ben Stiller's presentation spot was awesome. Hilarious as hell.

Rourke should have won. Thomas Newman should have got Best Score for WALL-E.

[StrainedEyes]

Ben Stiller's presentation spot was awesome. Hilarious as hell.

Rourke should have won. Thomas Newman should have got Best Score for WALL-E.

I understand why Slumdog won best score, it was something different. When they played them all back to back, the first 3 just melded into one violin-y sound.

Why Wall-E lost both sound awards, I don't know.

[goh78]

There is no reason Slumdog should be

A.) Winning SOUND awards. They might as well of ran up on stage after Wall-W E won it and stole it from their hands

B.) Nominated for 2 songs in a category that only nominates 3. Are you f--king kidding me. And it might not have pissed me off so much if Springsteen was the third nominee, but no. It is ridiculous to nominate the movie for 2 of the 3 songs. That is praising the movie too much in my opinion.

C.) Shown so much in the audience. If I had to see Dev Patel looking like a 10 year old on his first field trip to the zoo in the audience one more time, I think I was going to send my DirecTV remote through my TV.

[Kud-Dukan]

I didn't mind Penn's speech. Considering that he won for a movie playing a gay rights activist, coupled with the writer's speech earlier in the evening, coupled with the ridiculous situation in California involving gay marriage and the apparent protesters near the event, I think it was only right to mention it all.

I agree. :yay:

[Metamorpho1977]

Anyone else think Heath Ledger would have still won if he hadn't died?

[ShadowBoxing]

Anyone else think Heath Ledger would have still won if he hadn't died?
It's possible he wouldn't have, but he didn't have too much competition actually.

[ManofmyWord]

So I had left the room then came back in while Nat & Ben were presenting. Is it bad that I honestly thought it was Phoneix until like 10 minutes ago?

[StrainedEyes]

Anyone else think Heath Ledger would have still won if he hadn't died?

I think based on the other choices, I would hope so. I only saw Revolutionary Road and Doubt of the other nominees, and I think Ledger did something much further from himself then Hoffman or Shannon.

[Metamorpho1977]

I think based on the other choices, I would hope so.

I agree. It's just that I know the Oscars from the past. They have less respect for comic book movies than they do for wrestling movies.

[StrainedEyes]

I agree. It's just that I know the Oscars from the past. They have less respect for comic book movies than they do for wrestling movies.

Well, to be honest, TDK is one of the few comic book movies that actually would deserve award recognition. I think if better comic movies were made, then they would get more attention. Silence of the Lambs is always a perfect example of the Academy breaking out of its standards to recognize a good film or good performance.

[Laderlappen]

Anyone else think Heath Ledger would have still won if he hadn't died?Obviously you dont know much about the oscars. They HATE giving out "dead" oscars.

[Gold Samurai]

I thought the good parts where when writers and comedians like Steve Martin,Stiller and Rogen made jokes.

I was hoping for a Oscar joke from martin since he hosted before

[Raiden]

Ben Stiller's presentation spot was awesome. Hilarious as hell.

Rourke should have won. Thomas Newman should have got Best Score for WALL-E.

I agree that Stiller was hilarious. Phoenix's erratic behavior is just ripe for a parody and I'm glad Stiller was up to the task to do the parody himself.

Also, Franco and Rogen were funny as heck, reprising their stoner characters from Pineapple Express. It's esp. funny to see them laughing to "comedies" like Doubt, and Franco snuggling to Rogen after watching his own performance in Milk. One of the best moments in Oscar night.

Btw, I haven't said it, so I just want to say congrats to Heath Ledger for winning that Oscar. Post-modem or not, he definitely deserves it.

[Max J Power]

Anyone else think Heath Ledger would have still won if he hadn't died?
Yes, for a few reasons.

1. Before him, there was only one posthumous acting win (Peter Finch in "Network"), so death isn't an advantage for winning.

2. He got by far the most hype of the five nominees, and I think he would have whether he died or not.

3. While his competition was formidable (I thought Hoffman and Brolin were better than Ledger, and Downey was at least as good), no one was so great that he was an undeniable winner. I don't think Ledger would have beaten some of the other winners in recent years (Javier Bardem immediately comes to mind), but in a year like 2008, he had a great chance.

[Prison Mike]

Truth



I doubt it'll even be really remembered by most within a years time. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised at all if most people don't even know what it is now

not many people remember past Oscar winners anyway. I don't remember who got the 2002 Oscar for Best Picture unless I look it up. But I believe of the nominees, Slumdog was the best.

[Laderlappen]

No, I actually think Ledger would have beaten Bardem if they were in the same year. Though the race would have been much closer.

[Gold Samurai]

The idea of five previous winners putting over a nominee each was ok in concept, but since it was little more than a "you're doing this one, here's your lines" deal, it came off mostly as a uncomfortable exercise.


Agreed that was the most self congratulatory piece of the night

[xwolverine2]

im sorry but franco and rogen werent funny at all... it was lame. this furthure stopped me from seeing pineapple express.

as for the score award Wall-e got screwed... when they played all the music together of all the nominies..THEY ALL SOUNDED THE SAME!.. same violin kinda sound.. except wall-e's.

slumdog should have lost to anything else to the sound award.

i hate it when one movie ruins everything by winning everything.

[Bim]

Yes, for a few reasons.

1. Before him, there was only one posthumous acting win (Peter Finch in "Network"), so death isn't an advantage for winning.

2. He got by far the most hype of the five nominees, and I think he would have whether he died or not.

3. While his competition was formidable (I thought Hoffman and Brolin were better than Ledger, and Downey was at least as good), no one was so great that he was an undeniable winner. I don't think Ledger would have beaten some of the other winners in recent years (Javier Bardem immediately comes to mind), but in a year like 2008, he had a great chance.
Agreed 110%!

[ShadowBoxing]

Stiller should host the Oscars, only thing is I think he'd lampoon celebrities and it would push the envelope way too much.

[The Senator]

I am pleased that Sean Penn won for Milk, and that Slumdog won most of the awards it was nominated for. I feel like Kate Winslet won her award for the worst performance she has ever been nominated for, and actually wish the Academy rewarded Anne Hathaway instead.

As for supporting actor... I actually think Michael Shannon's performance in Revolutionary Road was better than Heath Ledger's, but I'm sure Shannon will have a long and fulfilling career ahead of him now that he was nominated.

[Golgo-13]

As i said before, winning an Oscar leads to career killing movies for most. The loosers should be happier than the winners in those regards....

[TLH]

I understand why Slumdog won best score, it was something different. When they played them all back to back, the first 3 just melded into one violin-y sound.

Why Wall-E lost both sound awards, I don't know.

Different doesn't mean good, though. The Slumdog score is just an annoying six note riff repeated over and over again. It's unmemorable, amateurish, and completely forgettable IMHO.

Greats like Thomas Newman, Danny Elfman, and James Newton Howard (22 nominations and no wins between them) are snubbed yet again because apparently, it seems, Best Score has become one of the categories the Academy uses to inflate the win totals of their eventual Best Picture winner.

In the end it just seems that, no matter what the category, winning an Oscar is all about timing. One year's Best Picture winner might not have even been nominated in the following year if the crop is better.

[DorneyDave]

My favorite moments:

- Heath's family accepting the award for him, seemed like everything "The Dark Knight" came full circle last night and it was a fitting close to the film's run of sorts.

- Ben Stiller's act, it was spot on and absolutely hilarious. Props to Natalie Portman to for playing it straight perfectly. Also honorable mention to Tina Fey and Steve Martin. The show needed more moments like this to keep it fresh.

- The opening number, especially the Batman part and the random-techno dancing for "The Reader" because he hasn't seen it. Kinda summed up the situation perfectly.

- The Pineapple Express skit. Staple wrestling baby!

- Sean Penn and Dustin Lance Black's speeches. Very heartfelt and sincere.

- The Slumdog Millionaire kids....I'm a sucker for cute kids.

[Franklin Richards]

I thought Hoffman was better in Doubt. I hope he gets another chance.


Here's the best part of the Oscars.

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:thing: :doom: :thing:

[jmc]

Apparently ratings were up slightly for this years show, not by much, but more than last year. Still expected to be one of the least watch Oscars though.

[TLH]

Apparently ratings were up slightly for this years show, not by much, but more than last year. Still expected to be one of the least watch Oscars though.

Where'd you hear that?

[ManofmyWord]

Why couldn't they have done the video like that? The pan across and Queen standing in front of it made you miss most of the names.

[StorminNorman]

If TDK was nominated for best picture the ratings would of been significantly higher.

Will Smith needs to host these next year.

[jmc]

Where'd you hear that?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090223/ap_en_mo/oscars_ratings

[BlackLantern]

If TDK was nominated for best picture the ratings would of been significantly higher.

Will Smith needs to host these next year.

I can agree with that...Id think if it was nominated in one of the major catergories besides best supporting...even if Nolan got a nod for best director the ratings would have seen a decent jump....maybe not double digits but enough so people noticed

[Franklin Richards]

I'm sure if a Medea movie were nominated it would have spiked the ratings.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[jmc]

If TDK was nominated for best picture the ratings would of been significantly higher.

Would have been through the roof had both TDK and WALL-E been nominated. An opportunity lost. Even though ratings were up, it's a marginal increase, the Academy can't start screaming 'We're back!' yet, the problem still remains that a) There's too many award shows prior to the Oscars that it basically kills any real surprises come Oscar night, and b) lack of movies people are familiar with, they can't expect people to tune in if they've never seen the films. It's gonna take more than Hugh Jackman to bring people back to watching the show.
Will Smith needs to host these next year.

Not a bad idea.

[DACrowe]

I don't get all the hate for Penn's win. I know a board like this will have loyalty to actors like Rourke, but did those who say he was robbed and Penn's Oscar is political even see Milk? In all honesty, Penn gave a more touching and memorable performance IMO. Harvey Milk is a very memorable character and Randy the Ram was also great, but I didn't really care what happened to his character at the end and he had a very "been here" before feeling as a character.

[The Chris]

I think their performances were pretty even so you couldn't go wrong with either one winning it.

[DACrowe]

P.S. I rewatched Jackman's dance numbers. The guy was fantastic as the host.

[ManofmyWord]

Jackman was the best host in years. "I'MMM WOLVERINEEEE"

[Dr. Evil]

Is Wall E a good movie?

[danoyse]

I don't get all the hate for Penn's win. I know a board like this will have loyalty to actors like Rourke, but did those who say he was robbed and Penn's Oscar is political even see Milk? In all honesty, Penn gave a more touching and memorable performance IMO. Harvey Milk is a very memorable character and Randy the Ram was also great, but I didn't really care what happened to his character at the end and he had a very "been here" before feeling as a character.

I feel the same way. I loved Mickey in The Wrestler and I would have been thrilled for him if he won, but Sean Penn deserved the win just as much. Penn gave an incredibly moving and poignant peformance.

You know from the opening scenes of the film that Harvey Milk was assassinated, but when that scene finally happens the woman sitting next to me actually yelled "NO!" I overheard some other people saying how they thought things in CA would be different if he were still around today. That's how effective his performance was.

He definitely deserved the Oscar for it.

[scifiwolf]

Is Wall E a good movie?It's a f***ing GREAT movie.

As for Penn, I've said that Rourke should've won over him, but I will explain. I felt both performances were equally fantastic. They really deserved to tie. My beef is that it seemed that politics were the trump card in the vote, and that's something I have a lot of issue with. It makes me feel like Sean's craft took a backseat to pandering to a political issue.

[Hunter Rider]

I don't get all the hate for Penn's win. I know a board like this will have loyalty to actors like Rourke, but did those who say he was robbed and Penn's Oscar is political even see Milk? In all honesty, Penn gave a more touching and memorable performance IMO. Harvey Milk is a very memorable character and Randy the Ram was also great, but I didn't really care what happened to his character at the end and he had a very "been here" before feeling as a character.

Ive seen both, in fact ive seen every picture and performance nominated in the big 6 categories. I thought Penn gave a good performance mimicking Harvey Milk, but Rourke tore away any pretense or showiness and presented a raw human being, very real, very touching and very connectable, Milk had lots of great grandstanding moments to lend to Penn's chances, but Rourke's was just like there was no actor there, there was a human being and I cared for the character all the way to end of the movie, as I said, Penn's was another in a long line of taking people who are real, studying them and then performing their greatest hits well in a 2 hour movie, Rourke's was a creation of a man and to me was the performance of a lifetime, one of the best ever.

[Gold Samurai]

I don't get all the hate for Penn's win.

Some don't like him because of his political soap box ramblings
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=83602&page=21

Well said, Mr. Penn, well said.

It's nice that he acknowledges that he can sometimes be a douchebag.
I still like him though.

in short, they think he's an ass.

[Kanon]

I can believe there is people thinking the nominations should be made with the ratings in mind...

I couldn't watch the ceremony yet, but I'm hearing very good things. I'm very pleased with the awards... I loved Slumdog Millionaire, and Penn disappeared into Milk, just like Ledger into the Joker.

[Captain Planet!]

Is Wall E a good movie?
Of course it is.

[theShape]

Oh, yayyy, Slumdog won everything. :dry:

[[A]]

Is Wall E a good movie?it is! the 2nd half is more traditional but still great

[Laderlappen]

Penn was GREAT in Milk. His best performance in his career. But Rourke gave one of the best performances of the decade. Penn won 5 years ago for if you ask me a very undeserving oscar win. Penn is a great actor and deserv one oscar in his career and same with Rourke. But when Penn has 2 and Rourke 0, it feels a little *****ty. It kinda reminds me of when Swank took Kate's oscar in 2004, except not as bad.
If Penn lost for Mystic River, he wouldnt have been so hated.

[Raiden]

I thought Hoffman was better in Doubt. I hope he gets another chance.



Well, Hoffman beat Ledger back when both were nominated for Best Actor a couple of years ago, so I'm glad Ledger was able to defeat Hoffman this time around. Hoffman already got his so I don't see why he should win another one so soon, and I do think Ledger had the best performance this year.

[EHTNAMTAB]

My two pence:
Slumdog is the only nominee I've seen - and i think it's a perfectly respectable choice. It appears to be the best of a fairly average five films - but quite a comedown from the double whammy of No Country for Old Men and The Departed.

As many have said, The Dark Knight (with all it's flaws, it's still infinately better than Titanic, which also got a nomination based on it's box office), In Bruges and The Wrestler could all have been very decent co-nominees (and would have given a slumdog a run for it's money), but the academy, it would appear, played it fairly safe in the nominations stage.

Surprised Mickey Rourke got beat, he was absolutely superb in the Wrestler

And of course Heath ledger won, he was superlative (again havent seen all the nominees, but RDJ getting nominated was almost as funny as his performance, and more subversive than Tropic Thunder itself!)

[danoyse]

Where'd you hear that?

Preliminary ratings report in the link below. Up 6% from last year, but last year's ratings were really low and they're still adjusting for time zones to see how it really matches up (and I love the photo in this article):

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b101186_oscar_ratings_looking_jackman-ed_up.html

[chaseter]

This was one of the better Oscars that I have watched in a long time. Jackman was funny...although the singing and dancing got old after a while, Tina Fey was great, Steve Martin was funny, and of course who could forget Ben Stiller:up:

[chaseter]

As Will Smith's little speech also highlighted...action movies get shafted every single year. So do comedies:o

[TheFuture]

Ive seen both, in fact ive seen every picture and performance nominated in the big 6 categories. I thought Penn gave a good performance mimicking Harvey Milk, but Rourke tore away any pretense or showiness and presented a raw human being, very real, very touching and very connectable, Milk had lots of great grandstanding moments to lend to Penn's chances, but Rourke's was just like there was no actor there, there was a human being and I cared for the character all the way to end of the movie, as I said, Penn's was another in a long line of taking people who are real, studying them and then performing their greatest hits well in a 2 hour movie, Rourke's was a creation of a man and to me was the performance of a lifetime, one of the best ever.

Agreed and well put. I honestly thought Rourke would have taken the statue considering his chances of being nominated again too. But I won't take anything away from Penn, he was more than worthy. It was such a tight contest between the two because in both cases they made their respective films worth watching. If Tom Cruise was Harvey Milk it would have been just an okay film. If Nicolas cage was Randy Robinson it would have been just an okay film. Both Rourke and Penn WERE The Wrestler and Milk respectively.

In regards to Heath Ledger and whether he would have still won had he been alive, I don't so why he at least wouldn't be in the running. It really was an underwhelming category this year and Ledger's performance was by far the most exciting, vivid and memorable. But this is the Academy and we all know how they operate, so it's an impossible one to call.

[lou2099]

Is Wall E a good movie?"Good" is the operative word. Pixar has done nothing great since The Incredibles.

[fu manchu]

I been watching this clip alot today and I still LOL everytime!
pflgMxxBPuY

[chaseter]

Jack Black's joke about taking his money that he makes on Dreamworks films and betting it on Pixar at the Oscars was GOLD!!!

[chaseter]

"Good" is the operative word. Pixar has done nothing great since The Incredibles.
Oscar says different:huh: Your opinion is 'operative'.:o

[Hunter Rider]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m66fbq.jpg

[Laderlappen]

Wall-E was one of the best films of last year.

[Captain Planet!]

Mickey Rourke's speech would have been 10x better than Penn's.

[lou2099]

God, those are the most amazing thighs ever.

[Raiden]

Mickey Rourke's speech would have been 10x better than Penn's.

It would've been heartwarming to see Rourke paying homage to his late pet dog Loki on the platform.

[Heretic]

Nice picture of beyonce...too bad she was the least attractive girl in that song and dance number.

This Oscars shows just how political this is. Iit has NOTHING to dop with who did the best work.

1. Slumdog is the worst best picture winner in years. I dont think it should have even been nominated (along with The Reader). It won due to politics. Heck, I believe the only reason Gran Torino wasnt nominated is because it could be viewed as "anti-immigrant". Slumdog's success is in some ways a reaction against Eastwoods film.

2. Sean Penn ONLY won because he played a gay rights activist in the year of gay rights in California and most of the voters are california liberals. Sure, he did a decent job, but Mickey Rourke was head and shouldders above anyone else.

3. Heath Ledger won because he is dead. YES, he gave the best performance of this (or almost any) year, but if i am going to post that the Oscars are given out due to poltical leanings and "who's turn is it", then I have to stay consistant.

4. It was Kate Winslets turn. She shouldnt have even been nominated for this movie as Lead Actress (this film submitted her as supporting actress, but the Academy changed it because they really, really wanted to give her the award for playing in a film based on one of their favorite subjects).

If you take every category and judge it based on liberal politics...weighted against the "who's turn is it" concept, and then occasionally throw in a bone for "this is a good movie, but we cant reward it with a best picture nom, so lets give it sound editing instead" you can pick the Oscars pretty accurately.

[theShape]

Anyone else find it lame that Beyonce was lip-synching, or at least had a backtrack that was much louder than her own voice, while Hugh was singing everything himself?

[Lunar_Wolf]

1Q0Og-UckDY
Loved this part:woot:

[Prison Mike]

1Q0Og-UckDY
Loved this part:woot:

Fanco should have been nominated for PE also. He was hilarious.

[scifiwolf]

For the love of God, this guy is the biggest winner of the night! I know he says "producer", but it sounds like "Thank you, my pencil." I like pencil better. :D

6K4Y8b1tHIE

[C.F. Kane]

I can't believe it took me this long to realize it, but last night's Oscars played a clip from "Plan 9 from Outer Space" during the "dead Hollywood guys" montage.

I mean, I recognized it, but the irony didn't sink in immediately.

[Heretic]

I can't believe it took me this long to realize it, but last night's Oscars played a clip from "Plan 9 from Outer Space" during the "dead Hollywood guys" montage.

I mean, I recognized it, but the irony didn't sink in immediately.


I didnt ssee Heath in that montage...maybe I missed it.

[Laderlappen]

Nice picture of beyonce...too bad she was the least attractive girl in that song and dance number.

This Oscars shows just how political this is. Iit has NOTHING to dop with who did the best work.

1. Slumdog is the worst best picture winner in years. I dont think it should have even been nominated (along with The Reader). It won due to politics. Heck, I believe the only reason Gran Torino wasnt nominated is because it could be viewed as "anti-immigrant". Slumdog's success is in some ways a reaction against Eastwoods film.

2. Sean Penn ONLY won because he played a gay rights activist in the year of gay rights in California and most of the voters are california liberals. Sure, he did a decent job, but Mickey Rourke was head and shouldders above anyone else.

3. Heath Ledger won because he is dead. YES, he gave the best performance of this (or almost any) year, but if i am going to post that the Oscars are given out due to poltical leanings and "who's turn is it", then I have to stay consistant.

4. It was Kate Winslets turn. She shouldnt have even been nominated for this movie as Lead Actress (this film submitted her as supporting actress, but the Academy changed it because they really, really wanted to give her the award for playing in a film based on one of their favorite subjects).

If you take every category and judge it based on liberal politics...weighted against the "who's turn is it" concept, and then occasionally throw in a bone for "this is a good movie, but we cant reward it with a best picture nom, so lets give it sound editing instead" you can pick the Oscars pretty accurately.You also obviously knows very little about oscars. Saying he won because he died is like saying he won because he was playing a Batman character.

[scifiwolf]

I didnt ssee Heath in that montage...maybe I missed it.
Heath wasn't in it. He was in last year's.

[danoyse]

I can't believe it took me this long to realize it, but last night's Oscars played a clip from "Plan 9 from Outer Space" during the "dead Hollywood guys" montage.

I mean, I recognized it, but the irony didn't sink in immediately.

Yes, Vampira died last year. I'm sure Ed Wood is smiling somewhere because a clip from his film was played at the Oscars.

[danoyse]

Anyone else find it lame that Beyonce was lip-synching, or at least had a backtrack that was much louder than her own voice, while Hugh was singing everything himself?

Hugh's a theater guy, he doesn't need to lip-synch. :cwink: :up:

[Heretic]

You also obviously knows very little about oscars. Saying he won because he died is like saying he won because he was playing a Batman character.

Not at all. It isnt just that he died. It was viewed as "his time". He had been nominated before, and can never be nominated again. It wasnt bernie macs time, nor would it likely have ever been. Heath deserved to win, no doubt, but the reason why he won is the same as every other award last night...it was the 'right" thing to do.

[Spider-Fan]

On the Rourke and Penn debate, I know the Oscars are political, but honestly, if they felt Penn was purely better, he deserved the award over Rourke. The fact Penn previously won shouldn't matter. Cause an award should always be based on the work in front of the committee juding who wins. I thought it was 50-50 for me, so I was happy either way. But to say Penn didn't deserve to win cause Rourke hasn't I can't agree with.

[Heretic]

On the Rourke and Penn debate, I know the Oscars are political, but honestly, if they felt Penn was purely better, he deserved the award over Rourke. The fact Penn previously won shouldn't matter. Cause an award should always be based on the work in front of the committee juding who wins. I thought it was 50-50 for me, so I was happy either way. But to say Penn didn't deserve to win cause Rourke hasn't I can't agree with.

Rourke deserved to win because he was better as Randy The ram than Penn was as Harvey Milk.

[Spider-Fan]

Rourke deserved to win because he was better as Randy The ram than Penn was as Harvey Milk.

Which is your opinion. Obviously, the people selecting who wins felt otherwise. Rourke was not robbed this year. Penn gave one hell of a performance, and to say he won just cause he played a gay character I think underscores how great Penn was in Milk.

[Heretic]

Which is your opinion. Obviously, the people selecting who wins felt otherwise. Rourke was not robbed this year. Penn gave one hell of a performance, and to say he won just cause he played a gay character I think underscores how great Penn was in Milk.

Okay...and holocaust films win because they are always great, and guys playing retarded men win because they are also great. the subject matter has no bearing on who wins. Youre right.

[Laderlappen]

Not at all. It isnt just that he died. It was viewed as "his time". He had been nominated before, and can never be nominated again. It wasnt bernie macs time, nor would it likely have ever been. Heath deserved to win, no doubt, but the reason why he won is the same as every other award last night...it was the 'right" thing to do.History has proven that not only do they not do what you say they do, but that they actually do the oposite. Some people have lost because they died. When Heath's death cant even stop him from winning only proves how much they liked his performance. The academy LOVE performances like these.

[BlackLantern]

Okay...and holocaust films win because they are always great, and guys playing retarded men win because they are also great. the subject matter has no bearing on who wins. Youre right.

It was voted on by the Academy....other actors and actresses...they seemed to have voted for Penn...there isn't some secret government that hands out the statues...there is voting....so write a nasty email to Will Smith or Steve Carell or something, they are Academy members

[Spider-Fan]

Okay...and holocaust films win because they are always great, and guys playing retarded men win because they are also great. the subject matter has no bearing on who wins. Youre right.

Do you think Schindler's List deserved to lose BP? Do you think Hanks didn't deserve to win for FG? I feel they deserved their awards.

Not all movies winning Oscars in BP or performance feature these subjects, so limiting what wins to these types of movies I also feel is somewhat unjust. The Holocaust related movie lost this year to a better film. Was that a wrong decision? I'm not saying the Oscars are always right and I do disagree with them, but I think many seem to dismiss Sean Penn. Have you seen Milk?

The Oscars are in political at times, but here...they couldn't go wrong.

[danoyse]

It was voted on by the Academy....other actors and actresses...they seemed to have voted for Penn...there isn't some secret government that hands out the statues...there is voting....so write a nasty email to Will Smith or Steve Carell or something, they are Academy members

So is Dakota Fanning. :wow:

[Hunter Rider]

Which is your opinion. Obviously, the people selecting who wins felt otherwise. Rourke was not robbed this year. Penn gave one hell of a performance, and to say he won just cause he played a gay character I think underscores how great Penn was in Milk.

I disagree, with all due respect I think they gave it to him b/c they wanted to get someone up there to soap box a hot button topic, and he was safer as well than having the often R rated Rourke giving a speech on their revamped show.

[Spider-Fan]

History has proven that not only do they not do what you say they do, but that they actually do the oposite. Some people have lost because they died. When Heath's death cant even stop him from winning only proves how much they liked his performance. The academy LOVE performances like these.

Agreed. No one ever won an Oscar over a year after they died. I feel Ledger would have won anyway. Dying doesn't help you win an Oscar. Never has in the past, don't see why people say it does now.

It was voted on by the Academy....other actors and actresses...they seemed to have voted for Penn...there isn't some secret government that hands out the statues...there is voting....so write a nasty email to Will Smith or Steve Carell or something, they are Academy members

Agreed. Penn stole nothing here. He deserved that award.

[BlackLantern]

So is Dakota Fanning. :wow:

I'm not sure how the **** that happened....they need to alter or severely constrict Academy membership at this point

[Spider-Fan]

I disagree, with all due respect I think they gave it to him b/c they wanted to get someone up there to soap box a hot button topic, and he was safer as well than having the often R rated Rourke giving a speech on their revamped show.

Seeing both movies and highly respecting what both actors did, I respectfully disagree. The Oscars couldn't go wrong last night with either in my mind. We had the screenwriter touch on the hot button topic prior to Penn, and his speech was great. They didn't need to give Penn a win to discuss gay rights.

I respect your opinion though :yay:

[Heretic]

The Academy votes...mostly on films theyve never seen.

That means that they vote with an agenda. Who "should" win? What subject matter deserves to be rewarded? A movie about pro wrestling??? That cant be as good as a holocaust movie...so lets not nominate the crappy wrestling movie.

[Spider-Fan]

The Academy votes...mostly on films theyve never seen.

That means that they vote with an agenda. Who "should" win? What subject matter deserves to be rewarded? A movie about pro wrestling??? That cant be as good as a holocaust movie...so lets not nominate the crappy wrestling movie.

Talking about The Wrestler not getting a BP nom is one thing, but the academy recognized Rourke for his efforts. The Oscar committee gets special screenings of films like Milk or The Wrestler, so it is not like the movies got no exposure and thus lost because of it. The academy simply chose 1 deserving performance over another. The fact we got 2 great performances like theirs to choose from speaks to the strength of the category this year.

[Hunter Rider]

Seeing both movies and highly respecting what both actors did, I respectfully disagree. The Oscars couldn't go wrong last night with either in my mind. We had the screenwriter touch on the hot button topic prior to Penn, and his speech was great. They didn't need to give Penn a win to discuss gay rights.

I respect your opinion though :yay:

I too have seen both movies, and I have credited Penn with a very good piece of work, but what Rourke did was a performance that will stand the test of time as the best of this decade IMO. Yes they did get the screenwriter up there but is anyone from the press gonna report on his speech in comparison to a big name actor like Penn ? I really don't think so.

Likewise SF, I am just very passionate about this one category so If I seem somewhat aggro I mean no offense. :yay:

[Prison Mike]

The Academy votes...mostly on films theyve never seen.

That means that they vote with an agenda. Who "should" win? What subject matter deserves to be rewarded? A movie about pro wrestling??? That cant be as good as a holocaust movie...so lets not nominate the crappy wrestling movie.

I don't know why you're getting upset over it. The Oscars are just the Academy's opinion. Everyone has their own opinion. Besides, The Wrestler was nominated in other award shows too.

[Spider-Fan]

I too have seen both movies, and I have credited Penn with a very good piece of work, but what Rourke did was a performance that will stand the test of time as the best of this decade IMO. Yes they did get the screenwriter up there but is anyone from the press gonna report on his speech in comparison to a big name actor like Penn ? I really don't think so.

Likewise SF, I am just very passionate about this one category so If I seem somewhat aggro I mean no offense. :yay:

I understand that, and I take no offesne :yay:

Had Rourke lost to Langella or someone else's performance like that, I'd be screaming bloody murder with you. Rourke gave that role his all, and he moved me when I watched the film. My saying Penn deserved to win is no disrespect to Rourke's fine work in The Wrestler, and I don't want to come off sounding like I am.

[DACrowe]

Okay...and holocaust films win because they are always great, and guys playing retarded men win because they are also great. the subject matter has no bearing on who wins. Youre right.

You're partially right. Politics played a part in it. But y'know Penn was so good as Harvey Milk I think he deserved it, even if he played the "gay character." Just as Daniel-Day Lewis played a retarded character in My Left Foot and won an Oscar for it. And yes, there has been mentally challenged Oscar-bait since then (coughRainManandForrestGumpcough), but Lewis DESERVED IT for playing a mentally challenged man in My Left Foot.

Harvey Milk was a gay man and Sean Penn gave the best leading performance of the year playing him in a movie. Of course that is my opinion. But to write it off on subject matter is dumb. If there were any movies guilty of Oscar-bait in theme and subject matter look at The Reader (which did net Winslet an Oscar on a subject matter she mocked on Extras two years ago) and Revolutionary Road. Milk was not that movie.

[Hunter Rider]

I understand that, and I take no offesne :yay:

Had Rourke lost to Langella or someone else's performance like that, I'd be screaming bloody murder with you. Rourke gave that role his all, and he moved me when I watched the film. My saying Penn deserved to win is no disrespect to Rourke's fine work in The Wrestler, and I don't want to come off sounding like I am.

:up:

I hear ya and I really do not want to sound like I don't think Penn did a very good job, I thought he did, but for me Rourke was just head and shoulders above the other 4 and the reasons he lost, for me at least, seem to be motivated by something other than who was the best, which leaves a sour taste in my mouth, not for Penn and his talents, but for the Academy.

[DACrowe]

"Good" is the operative word. Pixar has done nothing great since The Incredibles.

I liked Ratatouille and Wall-E better than The Incredibles.

Dang opinions always trip up authoritative arguments. :dry:

[Spider-Fan]

You're partially right. Politics played a part in it. But y'know Penn was so good as Harvey Milk I think he deserved it, even if he played the "gay character." Just as Daniel-Day Lewis played a retarded character in My Left Foot and won an Oscar for it. And yes, there has been mentally challenged Oscar-bait since then (coughRainManandForrestGumpcough), but Lewis DESERVED IT for playing a mentally challenged man in My Left Foot.

Harvey Milk was a gay man and Sean Penn gave the best leading performance of the year playing him in a movie. Of course that is my opinion. But to write it off on subject matter is dumb. If there were any movies guilty of Oscar-bait in theme and subject matter look at The Reader (which did net Winslet an Oscar on a subject matter she mocked on Extras two years ago) and Revolutionary Road. Milk was not that movie.

Agreed. I went into Oscar night thinking the only 2 movies worth winning BP were Slumdog Millionaire or Milk. I loved both movies immensly. TCoBB, Frost/Nixon, and The Reader were distant choices for me from those two. They seperated themselves from them.

The Reader is Oscar bait, but didn't get rewarded for it...other than Winslet winning, but I won't complain.

[Episode29]

I understand that, and I take no offesne :yay:

Had Rourke lost to Langella or someone else's performance like that, I'd be screaming bloody murder with you. Rourke gave that role his all, and he moved me when I watched the film. My saying Penn deserved to win is no disrespect to Rourke's fine work in The Wrestler, and I don't want to come off sounding like I am.

Langella was fantastic in Frost/Nixon, and as well, Richard Jenkins was absolutely awesome in The Visitor. It was an extremely strong category this year, and the winner was as equally deserving as most of the others (I'm not a fan of Pitt's work in BB). However, as Rourke was the fanboy favourite in the "coolest" film, the outrage seems somewhat tiresome. I mean, I've seen the box-office tracking for all the nominees, and I'm pretty close to positive that the grand majority of all the whiners griping all around the net are railing and ranting against films they never even bothered to watch, which is pretty pathetic.

[Spider-Fan]

:up:

I hear ya and I really do not want to sound like I don't think Penn did a very good job, I thought he did, but for me Rourke was just head and shoulders above the other 4 and the reasons he lost, for me at least, seem to be motivated by something other than who was the best, which leaves a sour taste in my mouth, not for Penn and his talents, but for the Academy.

I can see where you're coming from. I'm probably closer to the material in Milk than some on here for circumstances with a specific member of my immediate family, so this may play a part in where I stand on this. Though I'm also a huge Wrestling fan and Aronofsky fan.

[Episode29]

I too have seen both movies, and I have credited Penn with a very good piece of work, but what Rourke did was a performance that will stand the test of time as the best of this decade IMO. Yes they did get the screenwriter up there but is anyone from the press gonna report on his speech in comparison to a big name actor like Penn ? I really don't think so.

Likewise SF, I am just very passionate about this one category so If I seem somewhat aggro I mean no offense. :yay:

Isn't that what every said LAST YEAR about Daniel Day-Lewis in There Will Be Blood...:whatever:

[Spider-Fan]

Langella was fantastic in Frost/Nixon, and as well, Richard Jenkins was absolutely awesome in The Visitor. It was an extremely strong category this year, and the winner was as equally deserving as most of the others (I'm not a fan of Pitt's work in BB). However, as Rourke was the fanboy favourite in the "coolest" film, the outrage seems somewhat tiresome. I mean, I've seen the box-office tracking for all the nominees, and I'm pretty close to positive that a grand majority of all the whiners griping all around the net are railing and ranting against films they never even bothered to watch, which is pretty pathetic.

This was a strong category this year and we didn't get that DDL whom was just leaps and bounds better than everyone. I still say Pitt didn't deserve the nom for TCoBB. I really don't.

[DACrowe]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m66fbq.jpg

Thanks for that. I really loved that number. As a fan of old Hollywood and the classic musicals, seeing a tribute to the style and genre, centered mostly around Top Hot and West Side Story made me grin. As did the knowledge that many Wolverine fanboys across the world having their worlds turned upside down to the image of alpha-male Logan doing high kicks and a duet with Beyonce while hailing the rebirth of the genre. :hehe:

[The Chairman]

Penn DID steal the award.

Anyone who says otherwise has no absolutely no idea how the system works in Hollywood. It is the most politically driven system in the country outside of Congress. It's all about knowing the right people and leaving the best impression on the higher-ups.

Penn is ideal, in this instance. This guy knows everyone from De Niro to Dakota Fanning. He is deeply well repsected because of this as well as his liberal political views that are held by 90 % of Hollywood's most well known names. This automatically puts up in a good position with such important figures.

Rourke is the total anti-Penn. A great actor who squandered his talents with bad career decisions (seriously, look at the roles this man turned down) as well as pissing off one of Hollywood's most powerful figures, Samuel Goldwyn, back in 1987. This automatically put Rourke on the ****-list, which led to him disapproving of the acting profession and typical Hollywood ********, and thus led to his stint at boxing, and we all know how that went.

Even now, Rourke is still seen as a renegade, despite making amends with many in the system. While stars like Depp and Jolie can get away with off-the wall behavior because they conform to the system, Rourke is still seen as a liability of sorts because of his past. I think the real nail in the coffin was the whole thing with him appearing at Wrestlemania with Jericho, which made his performance seem gimicky to the more stuck-up Academy members.

So, yes, Rourke was robbed because he lost not on merit but because of politics and ill feelings due to his past (I know De Niro hated him when they did Angel Heart).

[DACrowe]

Agreed. I went into Oscar night thinking the only 2 movies worth winning BP were Slumdog Millionaire or Milk. I loved both movies immensly. TCoBB, Frost/Nixon, and The Reader were distant choices for me from those two. They seperated themselves from them.

The Reader is Oscar bait, but didn't get rewarded for it...other than Winslet winning, but I won't complain.

Agreed. Though I am in the minority of those who thoroughly enjoyed TCCOBB (maybe because I had low expectations?) and would have been fine with it winning for the simple fun of an upset.

[Hunter Rider]

I can see where you're coming from. I'm probably closer to the material in Milk than some on here for circumstances with a specific member of my immediate family, so this may play a part in where I stand on this. Though I'm also a huge Wrestling fan and Aronofsky fan.

Understood and I don't see that as a knock on your view, if you feel that Penn was the equal of Rourke I more than accept that it's a genuine film fan view as Ive read plenty of your posts on films, and while we may not always agree I find your posts a good read and addition to the movie threads.

Isn't that what every said LAST YEAR about Daniel Day-Lewis in There Will Be Blood...:whatever:

Ugh the roll eyes smiley, and you may well have seen that from a lot of people but not me, and I only post for me, not everyone else.

[Hunter Rider]

Thanks for that. I really loved that number. As a fan of old Hollywood and the classic musicals, seeing a tribute to the style and genre, centered mostly around Top Hot and West Side Story made me grin. As did the knowledge that many Wolverine fanboys across the world having their worlds turned upside down to the image of alpha-male Logan doing high kicks and a duet with Beyonce while hailing the rebirth of the genre. :hehe:

Haha! :funny: I really enjoyed the 2 numbers he did, they were different enough to each other to both be worthwhile IMO.

[Episode29]

Penn DID steal the award.

Anyone who says otherwise has no absolutely no idea how the system works in Hollywood. It is the most politically driven system in the country outside of Congress. It's all about knowing the right people and leaving the best impression on the higher-ups.

Penn is ideal, in this instance. This guy knows everyone from De Niro to Dakota Fanning. He is deeply well repsected because of this as well as his liberal political views that are held by 90 % of Hollywood's most well known names. This automatically puts up in a good position with such important figures.

Rourke is the total anti-Penn. A great actor who squandered his talents with bad career decisions (seriously, look at the roles this man turned down) as well as pissing off one of Hollywood's most powerful figures, Samuel Goldwyn, back in 1987. This automatically put Rourke on the ****-list, which led to him disapproving of the acting profession and typical Hollywood ********, and thus led to his stint at boxing, and we all know how that went.

Even now, Rourke is still seen as a renegade, despite making amends with many in the system. While stars like Depp and Jolie can get away with off-the wall behavior because they conform to the system, Rourke is still seen as a liability of sorts because of his past. I think the real nail in the coffin was the whole thing with him appearing at Wrestlemania with Jericho, which made his performance seem gimicky to the more stuck-up Academy members.

So, yes, Rourke was robbed because he lost not on merit but because of politics and ill feelings due to his past (I know De Niro hated him when they did Angel Heart).

Rourke's behaviour probably cost him the award, yes. But Penn didn't STEAL it. Putting it that way just comes across as hyper-active hyperbole.

[Episode29]

Ugh the roll eyes smiley, and you may well have seen that from a lot of people but not me, and I only post for me, not everyone else.

Yeah, I wasn't really intending to specifically focus on you, but whenever I hear people announcing things as "the best of the decade" I get a bit cynical.

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed. Though I am in the minority of those who thoroughly enjoyed TCCOBB (maybe because I had low expectations?) and would have been fine with it winning for the simple fun of an upset.

TCoBB I thought was very good, but it shared too many similarities to Forrest Gump for me to call it a BP winner. It was beautiful to look at and quiite good, but I felt the other movies were a bit more creative.

Understood and I don't see that as a knock on your view, if you feel that Penn was the equal of Rourke I more than accept that it's a genuine film fan view as Ive read plenty of your posts on films, and while we may not always agree I find your posts a good read and addition to the movie threads.


Thanks Hunter. I appreciate the compliment and echo the same view about you. This area wouldn't be the same without you in it :yay:

[DACrowe]

1. Slumdog is the worst best picture winner in years. I dont think it should have even been nominated (along with The Reader). It won due to politics. Heck, I believe the only reason Gran Torino wasnt nominated is because it could be viewed as "anti-immigrant". Slumdog's success is in some ways a reaction against Eastwoods film.

I just wanted to respond to this one. Slumdog was not my favorite movie of 2008, nor even my favorite movie that was nominated this year. But it was an excellent picture worthy of praise. To say its praise that predates the release of Gran Tarino is only a reaction to the racism present in Eastwood's latest picture (which isn't that racist as it has the old cliche of the racist with a heart of gold who learns to be tolerant), is asinine. That would not explain Slumdog's success at the box office.

And in the last 10+ years, we've seen best picture go to Crash, Million Dollar Baby, Titanic, Shakespeare in Love and English Patient. And to add to my very small but vocal dissent, I'm going to throw No Country for Old Men to that list. All things considered Slumdog Millionaire is actually above average for BP picks by the Academy, really.

[Motown Marvel]

Penn DID steal the award.

Anyone who says otherwise has no absolutely no idea how the system works in Hollywood. It is the most politically driven system in the country outside of Congress. It's all about knowing the right people and leaving the best impression on the higher-ups.

Penn is ideal, in this instance. This guy knows everyone from De Niro to Dakota Fanning. He is deeply well repsected because of this as well as his liberal political views that are held by 90 % of Hollywood's most well known names. This automatically puts up in a good position with such important figures.

Rourke is the total anti-Penn. A great actor who squandered his talents with bad career decisions (seriously, look at the roles this man turned down) as well as pissing off one of Hollywood's most powerful figures, Samuel Goldwyn, back in 1987. This automatically put Rourke on the ****-list, which led to him disapproving of the acting profession and typical Hollywood ********, and thus led to his stint at boxing, and we all know how that went.

Even now, Rourke is still seen as a renegade, despite making amends with many in the system. While stars like Depp and Jolie can get away with off-the wall behavior because they conform to the system, Rourke is still seen as a liability of sorts because of his past. I think the real nail in the coffin was the whole thing with him appearing at Wrestlemania with Jericho, which made his performance seem gimicky to the more stuck-up Academy members.

So, yes, Rourke was robbed because he lost not on merit but because of politics and ill feelings due to his past (I know De Niro hated him when they did Angel Heart).

if its all about politics, then why did milk only win one award while slumdog won 8?

[The Chairman]

Rourke's behaviour probably cost him the award, yes. But Penn didn't STEAL it. Putting it that way just comes across as hyper-active hyperbole.

Call it what you will, but it's my personal belief that Penn due to politics, not merit. Anyone who doesn't think the whole Prop. 8 thing affected the vote is ignorant. It definitely shifted the momentum, that and the Academy inabilites to let things go and accept Rourke's repentance.

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah, I wasn't really intending to specifically focus on you, but whenever I hear people announcing things as "the best of the decade" I get a bit cynical.

Understandable, I'm not prone to it myself if I can avoid it, I just genuinely feel this way about the performance, and I have, unlike many, seen every nominated picture/performance.


Thanks Hunter. I appreciate the compliment and echo the same view about you. This area wouldn't be the same without you in it :yay:

:bow: :up:

[Spider-Fan]

I just wanted to respond to this one. Slumdog was not my favorite movie of 2008, nor even my favorite movie that was nominated this year. But it was an excellent picture worthy of praise. To say its praise that predates the release of Gran Tarino is only a reaction to the racism present in Eastwood's latest picture (which isn't that racist as it has the old cliche of the racist with a heart of gold who learns to be tolerant), is asinine. That would not explain Slumdog's success at the box office.

And in the last 10+ years, we've seen best picture go to Crash, Million Dollar Baby, Titanic, Shakespeare in Love and English Patient. And to add to my very small but vocal dissent, I'm going to throw No Country for Old Men to that list. All things considered Slumdog Millionaire is actually above average for BP picks by the Academy, really.

I really wanted There Will Be Blood to win last year. It is my personal favorite movie of the decade.

[The Chairman]

if its all about politics, then why did milk only win one award while slumdog won 8?

Milk won two. Dustin Ian Black won for Best Original Screenplay.

I can't really comment on Slumdog Millionaire because I didn't see it. Slumdog I think may have struck a chord with the whole recent shedding of light on the Mumbai situation. We had a discussion on it in school today.

[BlackLantern]

I remember watching an early interview with Brad Pitt from some time ago and he talked about meeting Mickey Rourke for the first time and how Rourke sat him down and told him not to blow his chances, be polite, and show up on time....Rourke knew he was a cautionary tale and has been working to get past all that

[Hunter Rider]

I just wanted to respond to this one. Slumdog was not my favorite movie of 2008, nor even my favorite movie that was nominated this year. But it was an excellent picture worthy of praise. To say its praise that predates the release of Gran Tarino is only a reaction to the racism present in Eastwood's latest picture (which isn't that racist as it has the old cliche of the racist with a heart of gold who learns to be tolerant), is asinine. That would not explain Slumdog's success at the box office.

And in the last 10+ years, we've seen best picture go to Crash, Million Dollar Baby, Titanic, Shakespeare in Love and English Patient. And to add to my very small but vocal dissent, I'm going to throw No Country for Old Men to that list. All things considered Slumdog Millionaire is actually above average for BP picks by the Academy, really.

I don't think Slumdog was better than the ones I bolded.

[Episode29]

I just wanted to respond to this one. Slumdog was not my favorite movie of 2008, nor even my favorite movie that was nominated this year. But it was an excellent picture worthy of praise. To say its praise that predates the release of Gran Tarino is only a reaction to the racism present in Eastwood's latest picture (which isn't that racist as it has the old cliche of the racist with a heart of gold who learns to be tolerant), is asinine. That would not explain Slumdog's success at the box office.

And in the last 10+ years, we've seen best picture go to Crash, Million Dollar Baby, Titanic, Shakespeare in Love and English Patient. And to add to my very small but vocal dissent, I'm going to throw No Country for Old Men to that list. All things considered Slumdog Millionaire is actually above average for BP picks by the Academy, really.

I agree with everything you said, minus the NCFOM comment.

I'd also argue that if you thought that Gran Torino was a more deserving Best Picture winner than Slumdog, than you sir, obviously are less-than-educated in understanding cinema, and quite possibly delusional.

[Episode29]

Understandable, I'm not prone to it myself if I can avoid it, I just genuinely feel this way about the performance, and I have, unlike many, seen every nominated picture/performance.


Yeah, I was pretty confident you had. It just seems to me that many, after TDK got the shaft, invested all their hopes in the only other critically-respected film they saw (The Wrestler) and are now ornery because it lost out to equally deserving (but less youth-friendly) movies.

[BlackLantern]

with the TDK fans and probably some comic fans in general....TDK getting a big award was some sort of reward, some validation....that the years of collecting, following the characters, buying collectibles and memorabilia, dressing up going to conventions, putting together fanfiction and fan art...that all of that would be rewarded....and in their eyes, it wasn't.....

Bruces line TDK about people having their faith rewarded came to mind....

[Spider-Fan]

There were a number of films I wish would have gotten the nom over The Reader. My 5th nom choices would have been between Wall-E, The Wrestler, The Dark Knight, and Doubt.

[Episode29]

There were a number of films I wish would have gotten the nom over The Reader. My 5th nom choices would have been between Wall-E, The Wrestler, The Dark Knight, and Doubt.

I thought Rachel Getting Married was somewhat deserving also.

[Raiden]

3. Heath Ledger won because he is dead. YES, he gave the best performance of this (or almost any) year, but if i am going to post that the Oscars are given out due to poltical leanings and "who's turn is it", then I have to stay consistant.



I disagree with that, because Oscar isn't known for giving out Oscars to actors who passed away (Ledger is the only 2nd actor to received such honor), and Ledger's performance is a definite standout this year, even though the supporting actor category isn't as strong as previous years. I believe Ledger would've won even if he didn't die from that OD a year ago.

[Spider-Fan]

I thought Rachel Getting Married was somewhat deserving also.

I didn't see that or In Bruges...I really need to see those.

[Heretic]

I just wanted to respond to this one. Slumdog was not my favorite movie of 2008, nor even my favorite movie that was nominated this year. But it was an excellent picture worthy of praise. To say its praise that predates the release of Gran Tarino is only a reaction to the racism present in Eastwood's latest picture (which isn't that racist as it has the old cliche of the racist with a heart of gold who learns to be tolerant), is asinine. That would not explain Slumdog's success at the box office.

And in the last 10+ years, we've seen best picture go to Crash, Million Dollar Baby, Titanic, Shakespeare in Love and English Patient. And to add to my very small but vocal dissent, I'm going to throw No Country for Old Men to that list. All things considered Slumdog Millionaire is actually above average for BP picks by the Academy, really.

Youre right in a sense. The Oscars really have been terrible in recent years, and Slumdog is better than a lot of what you listed...geez.

However, Slumdog was generally seen as a decent film that was a pretty big longshot to get many nominations. At some point this film which no one really had much box office expectations or award expectations just took off like a shot.

As far as Gran Torino...yeah...it had the cliche' heart of gold aspect, and I didnt think it was THAT good, but typically Eastwood gets nominated. He was completely shut out. There must be a reason, and quality aint it.

[DACrowe]

I really wanted There Will Be Blood to win last year. It is my personal favorite movie of the decade.

That was my choice and I honestly preferred Atonement and even Juno that year in the nominating category (I know those two get a lot of flack). And my two favorite movies of 2007, Sweeney Todd and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, were not even nominated. :csad:

[Spider-Fan]

That was my choice and I honestly preferred Atonement and even Juno that year in the nominating category (I know those two get a lot of flack). And my two favorite movies of 2007, Sweeney Todd and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, were not even nominated. :csad:

I was also sad Sweeney Todd got no BP nom or Burton for BD :csad:

Behind There Will Be Blood, Sweeney Todd was my 2nd favorite movie of last year.

[The Chairman]

Youre right in a sense. The Oscars really have been terrible in recent years, and Slumdog is better than a lot of what you listed...geez.

However, Slumdog was generally seen as a decent film that was a pretty big longshot to get many nominations. At some point this film which no one really had much box office expectations or award expectations just took off like a shot.

As far as Gran Torino...yeah...it had the cliche' heart of gold aspect, and I didnt think it was THAT good, but typically Eastwood gets nominated. He was completely shut out. There must be a reason, and quality aint it.

Probably the politically incorrect aspects of the film, which were abundant.

[BlackLantern]

Im still waiting for the adult film equivalent of 'Slumdog Millionaire'....Indian chicks seem to be the in thing now anyway

[Spider-Fan]

Im still waiting for the adult film equivalent of 'Slumdog Millionaire'....Indian chicks seem to be the in thing now anyway

The answers were in his pants :o

[Heretic]

Probably the politically incorrect aspects of the film, which were abundant.

Thats exactly what I said in my original post about it. It had NOTHING to do with quality, but instead was viewed as politically incorrect, and therefore not worthy of an Oscar. Meanwhile, Slumdog embraced other cultures and countries...and therefore deserved an Oscar.

[DACrowe]

Youre right in a sense. The Oscars really have been terrible in recent years, and Slumdog is better than a lot of what you listed...geez.

However, Slumdog was generally seen as a decent film that was a pretty big longshot to get many nominations. At some point this film which no one really had much box office expectations or award expectations just took off like a shot.

As far as Gran Torino...yeah...it had the cliche' heart of gold aspect, and I didnt think it was THAT good, but typically Eastwood gets nominated. He was completely shut out. There must be a reason, and quality aint it.

It took off because the quality just wasn't there this year. BB was good but not great, same with Milk. Frost/Nixon and Doubt were good little play-movies. Reader and Revolutionary Road sucked. The Wrestler was too minimalisitic to be a best picture contender. And they were too snobby to acknowledge TDK and Wall-E.

So Slumdog became the Oscar darling. Though I don't think it is that much better, if at all, than Milk, Frost/Nixon or BB.

[Spider-Fan]

Gran Torino was good, but I wouldn't call it BP worthy. I love Eastwood and all, but it certainly wasn't his best movie. Nor really Oscar worthy.

[Laderlappen]

Gran Torino was alright, but seriously what should it be nominated for?

[Episode29]

Gran Torino was alright, but seriously what should it be nominated for?

Best song, hands down!:woot:

[Prison Mike]

I liked Gran Torino but as winner of BP Oscar? Not that much.

[Heretic]

Best song, hands down!:woot:

When Springsteen is overlooked because his song is about pro wrestling, you really cant have any faith in that category.

[BlackLantern]

When Springsteen is overlooked because his song is about pro wrestling, you really cant have any faith in that category.

Pro wrestling is the retarded stepchild of the entertainment industry....it is merely tolerated and will never truly be respected...I realize that now....

[The Chairman]

When Springsteen is overlooked because his song is about pro wrestling, you really cant have any faith in that category.

I actualyl think it lost out because he placed it on his album prior to the ceremony, which is still kind of stupid.

The again, unlike Rourke, at least Bruce has an Oscar.

[Heretic]

Pro wrestling is the retarded stepchild of the entertainment industry....it is merely tolerated and will never truly be respected...I realize that now....

Yes, i get that. However...that asssumption is that NOTHING of quality can ever arise from pro wrestling. The entertainment industrys bias against, and in many ways jealousy towards wrestling is the SOLE reason why The Wrestler didnt get a best picture nom, and the SOLE reason why Sprignsteen didnt get a best song nom, and the SOLE reason why Aronofsky didnt get a best director nom, and a HUGE reason why Rourke didnt win best actor.

So, the Oscars are based on preconcieved opinions not related to the actual quality offered on film.

[BlackLantern]

Yes, i get that. However...that asssumption is that NOTHING of quality can ever arise from pro wrestling. The entertainment industrys bias against, and in many ways jealousy towards wrestling is the SOLE reason why The Wrestler didnt get a best picture nom, and the SOLE reason why Sprignsteen didnt get a best song nom, and the SOLE reason why Aronofsky didnt get a best director nom, and a HUGE reason why Rourke didnt win best actor.

So, the Oscars are based on preconcieved opinions not related to the actual quality offered on film.

well the Academy is constructed of people....and people have bias and preconception and preferences.....I am actually disheartened by it and am no longer watching wrestling as of last night.....

[Warhammer]

Man, were the Oscars fantastic last night or what? Maybe it was because of how they revamped the show or maybe it was because I love Hugh Jackman to death, but I honestly enjoyed every last second of it.

There were really only two winners I disagreed with. The first one was the Best Make-Up which should have went to Hellboy II: The Golden Army. It edged out The Curious Case of Benjamin Button to me. The second was Best Actor. Mickey Rourke's performance edged out Sean Penn's performance as the best of the roles nominated. Penn was great and all that, but Rourke's performance was better.

:up:

[Franklin Richards]

Pro wrestling is the retarded stepchild of the entertainment industry....it is merely tolerated and will never truly be respected...I realize that now....

Finally.


:whatever:



:p



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[The Chairman]

Interesting pointless fact: with the exception of (I think) Kingsley, all the Best Actor presenters made a film with at least one of the nominess.

[Hush]

The awards kinda sucked but the overall hosting and presentation of everything was awesome!

[The Chairman]

Also, anyone notice that Carlin and Brad Renfro were left out of the "In Memoriam" montage?

[Warhammer]

Oh damn, I didn't even notice that.

[Franklin Richards]

Also, anyone notice that Carlin and Brad Renfro were left out of the "In Memoriam" montage?

And where was Harvey Korman?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[The Chairman]

^ Forgot about him.

[Gold Samurai]

what were the dates that they died that could be clue as to why they weren't included

[Franklin Richards]

Stole this list off the Google.


Sidney Beckerman (Producer)
Alexander Courage (Composer)
Hazel Court (Actress)
Harry Lange (Art Director)
Earle Hagen (Composer)
Mel Ferrer (Actor/Director/Producer)
Dino Risi (Writer)
Bill Vince (Producer)
Jonathan Bates (Sound Editor)
Ken Ogata
George Carlin (Actor)
Patrick McGoohan (Actor)
Harvey Korman (actor)


They missed the chance to put THIS in a clip???


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:doom: :doom: :doom:

[The Chairman]

Brad Renfro.

[danoyse]

Probably the politically incorrect aspects of the film, which were abundant.

I keep hearing this - but it's ridiculous. No one can say Gran Torino was snubbed due to 'political correctness' on the same year Robert Downey Jr gets nominated for a role he played mostly in blackface in a movie that was ragingly politically incorrect.

Also, Springsteen was not snubbed because his song was about pro-wrestling because there is not one lyric in that song that even refers to pro-wrestling. The only lyric that comes close is "I can make you smile when the blood it hits the floor," but hell, that could be referring to a bar fight as much as a wrestler.

And for god's sake, Sean Penn did not steal that Oscar. He was brilliant in that movie. I loved Mickey too, but if he had to lose, I'm glad it went to Sean because he deserved it too.

[danoyse]

Also, anyone notice that Carlin and Brad Renfro were left out of the "In Memoriam" montage?

Brad Renfro died before last year's ceremony, and he was not included in that montage either. I remember there was some controversy over it.

[The Chairman]

And for god's sake, Sean Penn did not steal that Oscar. He was brilliant in that movie. I loved Mickey too, but if he had to lose, I'm glad it went to Sean because he deserved it too.

If someone wins more for politics than merit, I'd consider it a robbery. It goes against the concept of the Oscars.

[Franklin Richards]

Some say Ledger won because of pity instead of merit. Is that robbery? Hoffman did a better job in Doubt arguably.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Max J Power]

And for god's sake, Sean Penn did not steal that Oscar. He was brilliant in that movie. I loved Mickey too, but if he had to lose, I'm glad it went to Sean because he deserved it too.
I haven't seen The Wrestler yet, but even if I end up thinking Rourke was better, Sean Penn's performance in Milk was too good for me to think that he only won because of politics.

[Ziggyman]

Remember everyone...!

Toronto made Slumdog Millionaire what it is now!

[danoyse]

If someone wins more for politics than merit, I'd consider it a robbery. It goes against the concept of the Oscars.

But you can make the same argument that if Mickey had won it would have been as much for his comeback as it was for his performance. Neither would have been wins based solely on performance alone.

Sean Penn gave a brilliant performance, he didn't steal anything.

[Hunter Rider]

I keep hearing this - but it's ridiculous. No one can say Gran Torino was snubbed due to 'political correctness' on the same year Robert Downey Jr gets nominated for a role he played mostly in blackface in a movie that was ragingly politically incorrect.

I think the difference is that one was a comedy and the other was a drama.


Also, Springsteen was not snubbed because his song was about pro-wrestling because there is not one lyric in that song that even refers to pro-wrestling. The only lyric that comes close is "I can make you smile when the blood it hits the floor," but hell, that could be referring to a bar fight as much as a wrestler.

True, I am actually entirely baffled as to why he was snubbed.

And for god's sake, Sean Penn did not steal that Oscar. He was brilliant in that movie. I loved Mickey too, but if he had to lose, I'm glad it went to Sean because he deserved it too.

I don't think he stole it, he didn't make the call, I think the Academy gave it to a soap box topic instead of the best performance.

[Episode29]

Yes, i get that. However...that asssumption is that NOTHING of quality can ever arise from pro wrestling. The entertainment industrys bias against, and in many ways jealousy towards wrestling is the SOLE reason why The Wrestler didnt get a best picture nom, and the SOLE reason why Sprignsteen didnt get a best song nom, and the SOLE reason why Aronofsky didnt get a best director nom, and a HUGE reason why Rourke didnt win best actor.

So, the Oscars are based on preconcieved opinions not related to the actual quality offered on film.

The twisted, tortured logic in this post makes my head hurt.

I want to know, after reading these tirades, how many of the Best Actor/Picture nominees you actually saw.

[danoyse]

I think the difference is that one was a comedy and the other was a drama.

But still controversial - Tropic Thunder was even protested by families of special needs children when it opened. Yet it received a nomination for the guy who said the alleged offensive dialogue.

True, I am actually entirely baffled as to why he was snubbed.

I'll never understand why it was snubbed either. It was clearly the best song of the year.

I don't think he stole it, he didn't make the call, I think the Academy gave it to a soap box topic instead of the best performance.

I'd hardly call the Prop 8 fiasco a "soap box issue." They're literally trying to dismantle people's lives with these bans.

[Episode29]

I think the difference is that one was a comedy and the other was a drama.

Gran Torino was a drama? Geez, judging from the gales of rioutous laughter throughout, I was under the impression that Clint had made a modern comedy classic!

I'm not really kidding, either. It was a pretty badly constructed effort at dramatic filmmaking...

[danoyse]

The twisted, tortured logic in this post makes my head hurt.

I want to know, after reading these tirades, how many of the Best Actor/Picture nominees you actually saw.

And if he's actually listened to The Wrestler, since it doesn't include a single reference to pro-wrestling.

[The Chairman]

I don't think he stole it, he didn't make the call, I think the Academy gave it to a soap box topic instead of the best performance.

That's exactly what I mean. IMO, it defeats the purpose.

Not only that, but Penn got an Oscar five years ago. Rourke, who in my opinion is a far better than Penn ever was, never even had a nomination. The Wrestler isn't even the best performance of his career.

Also, Springsteen was not snubbed because his song was about pro-wrestling because there is not one lyric in that song that even refers to pro-wrestling. The only lyric that comes close is "I can make you smile when the blood it hits the floor," but hell, that could be referring to a bar fight as much as a wrestler.

Indeed. The song should've been nominated, without a doubt. In my opinion, it's superior to "Streets Of Philadelphia." It reminds me of "The River" or "Nebraska" or any one of Bruce's best character songs.

[Episode29]

And if he's actually listened to The Wrestler, since it doesn't include a single reference to pro-wrestling.

Yes! High five!!!

[Episode29]

Not only that, but Penn got an Oscar five years ago. Rourke, who in my opinion is a far better than Penn ever was, never even had a nomination. The Wrestler isn't even the best performance of his career.

Damn straight, Double Teamfor the win!

[danoyse]

Yes! High five!!!

Never mess with anyone who's been a Springsteen fan for 25 years. :cwink:

[The Chairman]

Damn straight, Double Teamfor the win!

That's really Van Damme's movie. Dude kicks a tiger.

But seriously:

Diner
The Pope Of Greenwich Village
Year Of The Dragon
9 1/2 Weeks
Angel Heart
Barfly

All at least as good as Randy The Ram, but no recognition. Plus, his cameo in The Pledge (directed by Penn, oddly enough), was amazing.

[Heretic]

I saw all of the major category nominations. I didnt see the foreign films or some of the documentaries and I saw non of the shorts. I also didnt see Bolt or Kung Fu Panda.

Springsteens song didnt have to MENTION wrestling...it was the theme to a movie about pro wrestling. Give me one decent reason why it wasnt nominated....you cant...because the ONLY reason it wasnt nominated is because it was attached to a movie called The Wrestler.

You can argue against that all day, but its still true. Hollywood looks down on wrestling and comic books and HATED the concept of giving respect to either. They were going to have to give Ledger the oscar due to his incredible performance....and then he died and it was like "oh crap...now we kind of HAVE to". Its different from most Hollywood deaths in that people were screaming for him to win BEFORE he died.

[The Chairman]

Never mess with anyone who's been a Springsteen fan for 25 years. :cwink:

Indeed.

This deabte about whether "The Wrestler" being about wrestling is akin to a tremendously stupid IMDB debate on Bruce's board about "I'm On Fire."

[Heretic]

And if he's actually listened to The Wrestler, since it doesn't include a single reference to pro-wrestling.

Celine Dion never mentioned..."the boat is sinking and youre going to die in the ocean but my heart will live oooooooon", but its still the theme to Titanic. Everyone connects the song with the movie. You know its about the movie because its the theme to the movie.

The fact that you are unable to figure that out kind of speaks ill about your ability to connect.

[Hunter Rider]

But still controversial - Tropic Thunder was even protested by families of special needs children when it opened. Yet it received a nomination for the guy who said the alleged offensive dialogue.

But it poked fun at so many different things,I think once you see it you know it's all totally harmless tongue in cheek silliness.

I'll never understand why it was snubbed either. It was clearly the best song of the year.

Guess they just needed to throw more love Slumdog's way.


I'd hardly call the Prop 8 fiasco a "soap box issue." They're literally trying to dismantle people's lives with these bans.

What would you call it then ? Sean Penn was soap boxing like he really knows and on top of that it was so topical to do so at this point in time, yet this was supposed to be about acting not about social issues.

Gran Torino was a drama? Geez, judging from the gales of rioutous laughter throughout, I was under the impression that Clint had made a modern comedy classic!

I'm not really kidding, either. It was a pretty badly constructed effort at dramatic filmmaking...



I'll tell you on Wednesday If I agree.

[The Senator]

So, because Penn got an Oscar five years ago, that automatically means he doesn't deserve a second for Milk?

His performance was outstanding. And I would argue that it is on par with his performance in Mystic River, which I feel is his best performance. I despise Sean Penn's politicking and find him to be one of the most pompous men in Hollywood, but to deny that he gave a performance worthy of a win is rather... dishonest.

I've seen a lot of biographical films where the actors merely imitated the subject matter at hand. Reese Witherspoon (the worst Oscar winner in history as far as I'm concerned) and Jamie Foxx (the second worst Oscar winner in history) merely did imitations. Penn actually became Harvey Milk. It was a deep, moving, emotional performance and a very accurate portrayal of the politician he was playing.

Rourke gave a good performance, and I've seen The Wrestler twice because of it. But I really don't think he deserves the Oscar for it. It wasn't the best performance I have seen this year. It was one of the best, and I'm happy he was nominated.

I just find the argument that an actor doesn't deserve an Oscar because he/ she was rewarded several years ago ridiculous...

[Episode29]

I saw all of the major category nominations. I didnt see the foreign films or some of the documentaries and I saw non of the shorts. I also didnt see Bolt or Kung Fu Panda.

Springsteens song didnt have to MENTION wrestling...it was the theme to a movie about pro wrestling. Give me one decent reason why it wasnt nominated....you cant...because the ONLY reason it wasnt nominated is because it was attached to a movie called The Wrestler.

You can argue against that all day, but its still true. Hollywood looks down on wrestling and comic books and HATED the concept of giving respect to either. They were going to have to give Ledger the oscar due to his incredible performance....and then he died and it was like "oh crap...now we kind of HAVE to". Its different from most Hollywood deaths in that people were screaming for him to win BEFORE he died.

No, I agree the song's exclusion was a harsh snub. But consider two things: 1) the songs were truncated into three nominees, which was guaranteed to lead to snubs. Slumdog was hailed for its music, while Wall-E had the momentous advantage of being a HIGH PROFILE MAJOR-ARTIST SUNG SONG FROM A SMASH ANIMATED DISNEY MOVIE. When has those criteria ever failed to net a nomination? 2) The Academy has shown a long-term penchant for snobbery in regards to music that can be deemed as "edgy". Sure, they've awarded some urban music efforts in recent years, but more often that not they embrace schmaltzy, by-the-numbers adult contemporary junk over gritty, depressing rock music.

[The Senator]

If someone wins more for politics than merit, I'd consider it a robbery. It goes against the concept of the Oscars.

And you know he won because of politics..... how?

[danoyse]

Celine Dion never mentioned..."the boat is sinking and youre going to die in the ocean but my heart will live oooooooon", but its still the theme to Titanic. Everyone connects the song with the movie. You know its about the movie because its the theme to the movie.

The fact that you are unable to figure that out kind of speaks ill about your ability to connect.

And your attitude needs to stop. Now.

I've been a Springsteen fan for more than 20 years so I think I know how to listen to his songwriting, thank you very much.

As far as The Wrestler, which I was just listening to for the umpteenth time on my ipod a few minutes ago, I was responding to your comment that the song was snubbed because it was about pro-wrestling.

Again, being the enormous Springsteen fan that I am and having heard the song many times, my response was that that wasn't the reason for the snub, as the song does not specifically reference pro-wrestling. And it doesn't.

Do you need me to type out the lyrics for you?

I felt the song being snubbed was downright criminal. That song absolutely embodied the story of The Wrestler (I also think it's one Bruce's best songs in recent years) and it not only deserved the nomination, it deserved the win the award.

Your comments about the Celine Dion song make me wonder if you even understand how this category works at all.

[hammerhedd11]

Gran Torino was a drama? Geez, judging from the gales of rioutous laughter throughout, I was under the impression that Clint had made a modern comedy classic!

I'm not really kidding, either. It was a pretty badly constructed effort at dramatic filmmaking...

Gee, it's so hilariously bad that it's made over 130 million dollars too.

[Episode29]

Gee, it's so hilariously bad that it's made over 130 million dollars too.

Need I incite the name Paul Blart: Mall Cop?

[danoyse]

But it poked fun at so many different things,I think once you see it you know it's all totally harmless tongue in cheek silliness.

Oh, I not only saw Tropic Thunder on opening night, I absolutely loved it. I even have a postcard of the movie poster that I found when I was in Paris last year that had all the titles in French.

I even defended the silly controversy on another message board and had a special needs child wished on me by someone who refused to understand repeated explanations of the infamous "full retard" scene. :whatever:


What would you call it then ? Sean Penn was soap boxing like he really knows and on top of that it was so topical to do so at this point in time, yet this was supposed to be about acting not about social issues.

But I didn't feel like I was being soapboxed. The ironic thing was that the film took place in the 1970s and we're still dealing with the same issues now. I agree with The Senator, Penn became Harvey Milk, it wasn't like he was just reading a PSA for two hours.

I know people who were personally affected by the Prop 8 nonsense, and it's a subject that absolutely infuriates me. If the movie had been done badly, I wouldn't be supporting Penn winning the award, but I thought he did a great job and he deserved it (although I would have been delighted if Mickey won too).

[hammerhedd11]

Need I incite the name Paul Blart: Mall Cop?

But what you are suggesting is that you have heard your audience full of laughter at all the wrong places. If this is what you suggest than WOM wouldn't have brought this to 130 mil. If you look at the BO too, you can see it has slow steady drops each week, suggesting that many people really like it, are telling their friends and going to see it again.

[Episode29]

But what you are suggesting is that you have heard your audience full of laughter at all the wrong places. If this is what you suggest than WOM wouldn't have brought this to 130 mil. If you look at the BO too, you can see it has slow steady drops each week, suggesting that many people really like it, are telling their friends and going to see it again.

Quality rarely has a great effect on box-office. Paul Blart, Taken and the original Pink Panther were far from great efforts. However, like Gran Torino, they got wide releases at a slow time for new releases and reaped huge benefits. I also will mention that GT's box-office has been statistically largely comprised of older audiences, who are more forgiving when they are supporting an older iconic actor.

But look, GN is an okay film. But as a drama, its pretty darn clunky and heavy-handed.