The "Friend Zone"

[Chris Wallace]

Let's talk the friend zone. You know what I mean. There's two ways in which unfortunate lovesick people get banished to this dreadful place. You're really into somebody-I mean DEEPLY into them. To the point where those love songs on the radio don't annoy you so much? To the point where you just can't stop thinking about them? Then they hit you with, "I just want to be friends." It's infuriating. The second way is even worse, IMO. You're actually in a relationship with the person. It has its ups & downs, but you figure that'll pass. Or worse, you think everything's going swimmingly & then out of nowhere, this person dumps you. And it's bad enough you're looking down at the shattered fragments of your heart on the floor, when they suddenly pour lemon juice & hot sauce into the open wound by saying, "We can still be friends." Either way, it sucks. The first one's just bad b/c you feel stupid. You probably thought you were making progress, & they turn out to either be oblivious to your feelings. The second one is just like a dagger in the heart. Actually, it feels a lot like this to me.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/agreenbrotha/n45401086_31161477_67.jpg
You know what I mean? You can see out but you can't break out.
Now I've known people who have successfully managed to do this. Not me. Most of my breakups have been ugly, anyway, truth be told. Why the hell would I want to hang out with you after you've dumped me? That's like dangling a cheeseburger in front of one of those starving kids in a 3rd world country. "Ooh-look at what you can't have!" WTF?
So in this thread, I'd like to talk about the friend zone in general-maybe some experiences you've had being banished to this dark, dreadful dimension, some times you've had to put someone there, and/or just your thoughts on the subject in general.

[cryptic name]

I've been banished to and broken out of the friend zone twice. It's never ended well.

[Immortalfire]

I happened to me once, but it wasn't that big a deal.

[SuBe]

Hooter's Girl?

It happens bud.

[Vapor]

I once managed to get with a girl I had been in the friend zone with for 4 years but I ended it after a few weeks.. I think it was one of them, wanting what you can't have things..

Currently in the friend zone with my ex, which I don't mind much cos I'm over the fact that she broke up with me for her dick ex lol but we are still close so this one isn't too bad.

And I'm also in the friend zone with another girl who I had fancied for a couple years but never talked to until recently when I became single and I got her number. So we went for drinks and it went really well and she was up for kissing me and we were holding hands n stuff, so I thought good sign and everything.. But then she started ignoring my texts and when I finally got a response from her she said she was sorry but wasn't ready 'for all that'.. So I'm in the friend zone there which sucks big time..

But sometimes it can be not too bad, provided you only like the girl a bit and it's not tearing you up inside lol But yeah, on the whole, the friend zone isn't a very nice place to be...

[Immortalfire]

Hooter's Girl?

It happens bud.

It is my dream to get a high five at Hooters.

[SuBe]

It is my dream to get a high five at Hooters.
:hehe:

[Immortalfire]

The fairtax will make it happen.

[SuBe]

The fairtax will make it happen.
If we had a FairTax, (Capital F, Capital T) more people would have money since everyone would be receiving 100% of their Paycheck. The Female Workers at the Hooters would be even busier trying to keep and maintain business as they also would be getting larger tips from the 100% Paycheck carrying Consumers. Now that they receive larger paychecks, and can afford a better standard of living, they are in general more happy.

And, as we all know, when the Hooters are happy, they high-five.

[The Guard]

If you've actually dated, been an item, you're not in the "friend zone". You're an ex they still want to be friends with. It's not quite the same thing.

[Lobo]

^Precisely

I've been banished many a time :(

[BlackLantern]

I populated the Friend Zone for a long, long time....I then told myself "Man up you ****er" and set out upon the wastes with nothing but a long road in front of me....where I end up, I do not know....

[amazingfantasy15]

You forgot the third "Friend Zone" scenario, a girl you have been friends with, but develop feelings for over time. One of the trickiest "Friend Zones" how to move from friend to boyfriend without killing the friendship.

[Majic Walrus]

Most of my breakups have ended in horrible horrible hatred and rage. Often times with vicious sex. :D

[The Guard]

One of the trickiest "Friend Zones" how to move from friend to boyfriend without killing the friendship.

It helps if she jumps you.

[DV8]

what is this 'friend zone' you all speak of?? I've never hear of nor experienced anything remotely resembling this . . . . :o

[Nirvana]

I think the worst is when you've already been friends with the person for awhile, then you suddenly find yourself attracted to them. I was in that situation for awhile, then when you make it known they want to continue as just friends. It makes it incredibly awkward.

Then again, I've been "Only Friends" with a few people and then ended in bed with them. :up:

[Abstract]

I've been in the friend zone many a time. Finally decided to just give up and walk away though, it was too much drama and in the end it just wasn't worth it. Hearing the whole "not wanting to ruin the friendship" talk after they've led you to believe there was a chance just kinda kills the friendship I think.

[I'm Old Greg]

I f cked all my friends....i have no idea what that zone is...i guess no girl is my "friend".

Or maybe no girl is anyones friend.

[Mr.Webs]

I have a beach house in the friend zone.:o

[Chris Wallace]

If you've actually dated, been an item, you're not in the "friend zone". You're an ex they still want to be friends with. It's not quite the same thing.

No. It's worse. Now you miss it & can't have it. I have been there & it sucks. The only reason I agreed to it was in the hopes that I could find my way back. But there's no escape from the friend zone. (Not in my experience, anyway.) Except to break all contact altogether. Otherwise, once banished you stay banished. Or worse, you become the friend with "benefits". So you're getting pulled back & forth, getting your hopes up one minute & having them dashed the next. They figure they can get you to scratch their itch & then send you packing. I know some people think that's a guy's dream, but not if you have genuine feelings for her. Then it's torture.

[thedeadite]

Me and a girl where in each other's respective "friend zone" for a few years.
We both were attracted to and wanted to hook up with the other, but when one of us was single, the other usually wasn't.
When we finally did end up getting together it didn't end up working out. I think we spent so much time in the "friend zone" we couldn't grasp the idea that we didn't have to be in it anymore.
Atleast that was the dilemma in my head.
Knowing now that you can act on your feelings, but so used to suppressing them.

[Troy_Parker]

You forgot the third "Friend Zone" scenario, a girl you have been friends with, but develop feelings for over time. One of the trickiest "Friend Zones" how to move from friend to boyfriend without killing the friendship.

Amen. :csad:

[Chris Wallace]

You forgot the third "Friend Zone" scenario, a girl you have been friends with, but develop feelings for over time. One of the trickiest "Friend Zones" how to move from friend to boyfriend without killing the friendship.
I consider that a twist on the first scenario; trying to escape. I've had that blow up in my face, too.
The only times I have ever genuinely tried to maintain a friendship after the breakup is when there was a child involved. If I have to look at you for the next 18 years anyway, we should be on cordial terms. Unfortunately, awkward civility is the most I've ever achieved there.

[Chris Wallace]

I have a beach house in the friend zone.:o

I think I saw your place. I forwarded my mail to the FZ for awhile.

[percoset]

Ive been dealing with the friend zone issue the last 6 months.

It blows.

[PyroChamber]

Sometimes it gets worse because it makes you try to figure what it is they may see in someone else that they can't see in you.

[Star]

The worst is, in the friend zone you kind of risk making it an EXTREMELY awkward moment by suggesting a relationship.

[I Am The Knight]

Normally I am the one banishing people to the friend zone. But I myself was banished to this dreadful place almost a year ago. Help.

[Chris Wallace]

IDK if I agree more strongly with PyroChamber or Star. I had a situation where I'd given up on the idea of a relationship. We'd been friends for 3 years, hanging out, going to movies, to festivals, out for drinks, what have you-for 3 years. I'd dated other women in-between but still always made time for her. One night, as they say, one thing led to another. Then it became a big case of "What now?" A week later, same scenario, same result. When I asked her where we went from there, she replied "What, like boyfriend & girlfriend?" The way she said it sounded so incredulous, like it was just an absurd notion. So I backed off. Then I tried & tried to get our friendship back to where it had been & no luck there either.
I Am The Knight, is this someone you've dated or would like to date?

[SLVRSR4]

My old gf wanted to put me in the friend zone and I freaked out changed my number and got new locks.

[Star]

IDK if I agree more strongly with PyroChamber or Star. I had a situation where I'd given up on the idea of a relationship. We'd been friends for 3 years, hanging out, going to movies, to festivals, out for drinks, what have you-for 3 years. I'd dated other women in-between but still always made time for her. One night, as they say, one thing led to another. Then it became a big case of "What now?" A week later, same scenario, same result. When I asked her where we went from there, she replied "What, like boyfriend & girlfriend?" The way she said it sounded so incredulous, like it was just an absurd notion. So I backed off. Then I tried & tried to get our friendship back to where it had been & no luck there either.
I Am The Knight, is this someone you've dated or would like to date?

I had the exact same thing happen to me, and we're friends still but theres always this underlying weirdness and we're not as close as we used to be. Urghhh.

[Chris Wallace]

No, you're not. Why? Because you crossed that line. I don't know how to be friends with someone once I've seen her naked. We can be FINO's (Friends In Name Only)-call each other once in a while or chat online, but to actually hang out & kick it & confide in each other? How do you do that?

[PyroChamber]

What I mentioned happened to me in high school. I was friend's with this girl, I was really into her but I tried not to make it obvious; I wasn't a pushover and if she was wrong about something I'd tell her without sugar-coating it.

Then one day we were hanging at the park on a bench, I guess because of the surroundings or because we were alone, but for whatever reason I told her how I felt and she hit me with the old "you're a great guy to be around but I only like you as a friend"; and you wanna talk about feeling like someone just punched you in the stomach, that's how I felt at that very moment.

I didn't even know how to respond to it, and to add insult to injury she also told me "I know there's a girl out there who'll be perfect for you, way better than me". After it was over I walked her home, and when I left her place all I could think was "WTF? What is it about me that she doesn't like? What is it that I don't have that some other guy might have?" And I just couldn't figure it out, but as time went on grow further apart then we just stopped speaking to each other period.

[I Am The Knight]

IDK if I agree more strongly with PyroChamber or Star. I had a situation where I'd given up on the idea of a relationship. We'd been friends for 3 years, hanging out, going to movies, to festivals, out for drinks, what have you-for 3 years. I'd dated other women in-between but still always made time for her. One night, as they say, one thing led to another. Then it became a big case of "What now?" A week later, same scenario, same result. When I asked her where we went from there, she replied "What, like boyfriend & girlfriend?" The way she said it sounded so incredulous, like it was just an absurd notion. So I backed off. Then I tried & tried to get our friendship back to where it had been & no luck there either.
I Am The Knight, is this someone you've dated or would like to date?

Someone I've been with. The relationship lasted for about a year.

Well, you know what the funny thing is? I just banished someone to the friend zone yesterday :csad: Within an hour of writing my previous post, haha... :o

[Star]

No, you're not. Why? Because you crossed that line. I don't know how to be friends with someone once I've seen her naked. We can be FINO's (Friends In Name Only)-call each other once in a while or chat online, but to actually hang out & kick it & confide in each other? How do you do that?

Well, the way I managed it was the morning after (it was at a cabin) I said very little to him, then just packed up my bags and left a day early because I was so confused and weirded out. (clearly it happened under alchoholic influences)

I never told any of my other friends about it, and I don't think he did either. We had kissed before many times but it was never as far as this.

We just stayed away from each other for a month or so and then saw each other in a group situation and acted like it didn't happen. We only hang out in groups now though.... We'll never be as close as we were and it sucks because he was my best friend for like four years.

[Master Chief]

I'd rather be in the friend zone than a triangle. :heart:

"WTF? What is it about me that she doesn't like? What is it that I don't have that some other guy might have?" And I just couldn't figure it out, but as time went on grow further apart then we just stopped speaking to each other period.

Only answer I had in my case was, "Her heart." :o LOL.

[SoulManX]

What I mentioned happened to me in high school. I was friend's with this girl, I was really into her but I tried not to make it obvious; I wasn't a pushover and if she was wrong about something I'd tell her without sugar-coating it.

Then one day we were hanging at the park on a bench, I guess because of the surroundings or because we were alone, but for whatever reason I told her how I felt and she hit me with the old "you're a great guy to be around but I only like you as a friend"; and you wanna talk about feeling like someone just punched you in the stomach, that's how I felt at that very moment.

I didn't even know how to respond to it, and to add insult to injury she also told me "I know there's a girl out there who'll be perfect for you, way better than me". After it was over I walked her home, and when I left her place all I could think was "WTF? What is it about me that she doesn't like? What is it that I don't have that some other guy might have?" And I just couldn't figure it out, but as time went on grow further apart then we just stopped speaking to each other period.

Let's face it I have been down that road...most not all but most want *******s for boyfriends or husbands they like getting treated like ****:o

[Master Chief]

Let's face I have been down that road...most not all but most want *******s for boyfriends or husbands they like getting treated like ****:o

Naw, it's that they feel about someone else the way you do about them, and in some cases the guy is nothing but a dick. Just like you, they overlook the faults because they care for some reason. Well, from a "romantic" POV.

...

I meant dick figuratively, but take what you will. :huh:

[SoulManX]

Naw, it's that they feel about someone else the way you do about them, and in some cases the guy is nothing but a dick. Just like you, they overlook the faults because they care for some reason. Well, from a "romantic" POV.

...

I meant dick figuratively, but take what you will. :huh:

I got what your saying I just hate when they say why do I date jerks and asses why can't I find a guy like you...:cmad:

Im like what am I chopped liver:o

[Chris Wallace]

Well, the way I managed it was the morning after (it was at a cabin) I said very little to him, then just packed up my bags and left a day early because I was so confused and weirded out. (clearly it happened under alchoholic influences)

I never told any of my other friends about it, and I don't think he did either. We had kissed before many times but it was never as far as this.

We just stayed away from each other for a month or so and then saw each other in a group situation and acted like it didn't happen. We only hang out in groups now though.... We'll never be as close as we were and it sucks because he was my best friend for like four years.

My incident involved alcohol also. As a result I don't touch tequila.

[Chris Wallace]

Let's face it I have been down that road...most not all but most want *******s for boyfriends or husbands they like getting treated like ****:o

Ugh. Don't ge tme started on that one. I was a woman's "friend with benefits" for about 3 years, off & on. During which I saw her date ********* after *********-even married a couple of them. But it seemed like she just had no interest in me outside of the bedroom. But like a chump, I tried to make it into more & she cut me off completely.

[Knightsaber Priss]

All I can say is that if I am not sexually attracted to a guy physically when I meet them, I'm never going to be attracted to them down the road. There just has to be instant chemistry between myself and the guy because my friends are closer to being siblings to me. So if I were to date a guy I'm friends with it would be like dating a brother and that leaves an icky feeling inside me.

[Chris Wallace]

All I can say is that if I am not sexually attracted to a guy physically when I meet them, I'm never going to be attracted to them down the road. There just has to be instant chemistry between myself and the guy because my friends are closer to being siblings to me. So if I were to date a guy I'm friends with it would be like dating a brother and that leaves an icky feeling inside me.

Understandable. However it's possible to feel that chemistry & not act on it for one reason or another. Maybe one of you is taken at the time. Maybe you meet on the job & don't think it's a good idea to date if you work together. Maybe one of you is just coming out of a relationship & doesn't want to rebound. Truth be told, I've been banished to the FZ more times after dating someone than before.

[SoulManX]

All I can say is that if I am not sexually attracted to a guy physically when I meet them, I'm never going to be attracted to them down the road. There just has to be instant chemistry between myself and the guy because my friends are closer to being siblings to me. So if I were to date a guy I'm friends with it would be like dating a brother and that leaves an icky feeling inside me.

Some women should be honest and let a guy know that I have not a chance in hell to ever date her but can be her shoulder to cry on forever:o

[Knightsaber Priss]

Understandable. However it's possible to feel that chemistry & not act on it for one reason or another. Maybe one of you is taken at the time. Maybe you meet on the job & don't think it's a good idea to date if you work together. Maybe one of you is just coming out of a relationship & doesn't want to rebound. Truth be told, I've been banished to the FZ more times after dating someone than before.

Yeah, but still I'd say there is an attraction to one another even if there are a few speed bumps. in my mind there's a difference between a guy that I like that just has some freedom/rebound issues because the sexual tension is just there in some ways. Of course I have had too many instances where I've been attracted to a guy and there's been somewhat of a delay and by the time the guy comes around my attraction has sort of ebbed into the friend zone.

P.S. Dating someone you work with will always end in disaster because you see way too much of each other without a reprieve. Just to use the music industry as an example, how many couplings between two singers who also work together do you see lasting very long? I mean it's nice if you want to do a few projects together outside of your regular gig, but on a permanent basis it'll only spell catastrophe. Just about the only couple I can think of who are still happy that have worked together for decades and are still together is The Captain and Tenille.

[SoulManX]

Yeah, but still I'd say there is an attraction to one another even if there are a few speed bumps. in my mind there's a difference between a guy that I like that just has some freedom/rebound issues because the sexual tension is just there in some ways. Of course I have had too many instances where I've been attracted to a guy and there's been somewhat of a delay and by the time the guy comes around my attraction has sort of ebbed into the friend zone.

P.S. Dating someone you work with will always end in disaster because you see way too much of each other without a reprieve. Just to use the music industry as an example, how many couplings between two singers who also work together do you see lasting very long? I mean it's nice if you want to do a few projects together outside of your regular gig, but on a permanent basis it'll only spell catastrophe. Just about the only couple I can think of who are still happy that have worked together for decades and are still together is The Captain and Tenille.


Ashford and Simpson are still together:o

[Chris Wallace]

Yeah, but still I'd say there is an attraction to one another even if there are a few speed bumps. in my mind there's a difference between a guy that I like that just has some freedom/rebound issues because the sexual tension is just there in some ways. Of course I have had too many instances where I've been attracted to a guy and there's been somewhat of a delay and by the time the guy comes around my attraction has sort of ebbed into the friend zone.

P.S. Dating someone you work with will always end in disaster because you see way too much of each other without a reprieve. Just to use the music industry as an example, how many couplings between two singers who also work together do you see lasting very long? I mean it's nice if you want to do a few projects together outside of your regular gig, but on a permanent basis it'll only spell catastrophe. Just about the only couple I can think of who are still happy that have worked together for decades and are still together is The Captain and Tenille.

Ashford & Simpson, as far as I know.
Both my 2nd kid's mom & the aforementioned "FWB" were co-workers of mine, & both ended in disaster. I've since had one more relationship with a co-worker & while we were able to get plenty of time apart, I didn't like the whole damn company being in our business. So I don't think I'd ever go that route again.
You know what I hate even more than the "Friend Zone"? Really-it's the FWB Zone. A friend of mine told me that she was seeing a guy who wanted to get serious. She told me that she basically shot him down & while I don't remember the exact words she used, I told her that this is what she said:
"Your resume is quite impressive, but unfortunately I'm not hiring right now. I do, however, have some freelance work that I need done from time to time and I hope you'll be available for that."
I have been the freelancer. It SUCKS being the freelancer! A lot of guys may think it's cool but I don't. There are some serious drawbacks to being the freelancer. Foremost among them:
The work's not always available when you want it.
You have no right to demand assignments.
You have no right to protest if she gives an occasional assignment to someone else.
There's never any guarantee of any full-time benefits (such as meals being ready when you get there, going to a movie that you really want to see, etc.)
The more freelance assignments you get, the more likely you think your chances are of becoming a full-time employee. This is simply not so.
Any attempt on your part to become a full-time employee and/or attain the benefits thereof will likely result in the termination of your freelance agreement.

[Chris Wallace]

Ashford and Simpson are still together:o
Damn. You beat me to it.

[The Guard]

I very much sympathize (on some level) with the people who have heard "Why can't I find a guy like you". I do not sympathize with the girls who say things like that. I suggest calling her on it next time.

"I'm right here, I would love to go out with you, and treat you like you deserve to be treated, though I am small, and do not know the way".

If need be, you can also toss out the fact that you'd be quite willing to experiment with friendship boundaries, to pleasure her, etc, and that your full potential is not just a shoulder to cry on.

In my idiocy-laden youth, I had one of those dicussions with a girl once, and sort of danced around the fact that sometimes people who have always been there for you are the best boyfriends, and she immediately went and started dating her OTHER long time friend, instead of me. It's quite funny now.

I also knew a girl in college that I had some feelings for, in the sense that while I very much liked her as a person, I really just wanted to get to know her better as a friend and person for the most part. She had, of course, an incredibly possessive, jealous boyfriend (I know, this is a unique story, isn't it?). We got to be really good friends, and it quickly became apparent that her boyfriend was not right for her, and that she was seeking what he did not provide her elsewhere. It also became apparent that there were only certain aspects of herself that she would share with me, so I was left with about 25 percent of a friend. Now, while this girl was amazing, and I liked her a lot, I didn't neccessarily want to date her, I just wanted to get to know her better. I told her as much one day, and she said, point blank: "You can't." And she looked really, really sad about that.

So I never spoke to her again.

A half a week later she told my future wife "If I wasn't with so and so, I would be dating him".

Ah, women/men. You've just gotta love 'em.

One of the worse parts of life is that sometimes you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. When it comes to this "friend zone" stuff, sometimes you just have to grow up, and that usually means not being cruel to yourself or the other person, and moving on with your life without them.

[Chris Wallace]

That's how I feel. The woman I'm with now has often told me that if we weren't to work out, she'd like us to remain friends. But having moved across state lines, turned my life upside down & uprooted my son to be with her, I really don't think I can do that.

[The Guard]

I see no point in "clinging to the past", as it were.

The problem with that wish is that most people fail to realize...the reasons some relationships ultimately fail are the same reasons some friendships ultimately fail.

[Chris Wallace]

Good point.

[Knightsaber Priss]

That's how I feel. The woman I'm with now has often told me that if we weren't to work out, she'd like us to remain friends. But having moved across state lines, turned my life upside down & uprooted my son to be with her, I really don't think I can do that.

You know, if it meant meeting a man who was my soulmate, I would move halfway across the world for him because I'm starting to grow weary of where I am right now haunted by too many ghosts.

[Chris Wallace]

That's how I felt. We had a thing 12 years ago & couldn't really get it off the ground. After doing a tour in the FWBZ, I left her alone but couldn't get her out of my system. We got back in touch a year ago & I found myself here. Truth be told, I still feel like I needed to get out of Chicago. I was in a rut & didn't want to admit it for a long time.

[Knightsaber Priss]

That's how I felt. We had a thing 12 years ago & couldn't really get it off the ground. After doing a tour in the FWBZ, I left her alone but couldn't get her out of my system. We got back in touch a year ago & I found myself here. Truth be told, I still feel like I needed to get out of Chicago. I was in a rut & didn't want to admit it for a long time.

I'm feeling the same way right now. It's like no one will give me a chance unconditionally. They always want me to make changes, some very harmful ones in my view too. It bothers me so much so that I just don't feel like I belong here, that my destiny lies far away, across the ocean. I know it sounds corny, but I need to go somewhere to start over with a clean slate where I'm not dogged by my past and reminded of it constantly. I need to start over again, make friends and find a man who will love me unconditionally.

[Chris Wallace]

I'm feeling the same way right now. It's like no one will give me a chance unconditionally. They always want me to make changes, some very harmful ones in my view too. It bothers me so much so that I just don't feel like I belong here, that my destiny lies far away, across the ocean. I know it sounds corny, but I need to go somewhere to start over with a clean slate where I'm not dogged by my past and reminded of it constantly. I need to start over again, make friends and find a man who will love me unconditionally.

I always say, nobody goes to an art auction & brings home a lump of clay or a blank canvas. You bring home a finished work of art. What's the point in looking for someone to love & then trying to change them? I've had too many women do that to me & it's infuriating. One thing I hate is, if I tell you I don't wear certain colors, why would you buy me things in those colors? If I tell you I'm not a rap fan, why would you try to get me to wear hip-hop fashions? Why would you try to get me to embrace music that I don't like? Or cut my hair a different way? I'm 36 years old. I think by now I know what I do & don't like.

[Knightsaber Priss]

I always say, nobody goes to an art auction & brings home a lump of clay or a blank canvas. You bring home a finished work of art. What's the point in looking for someone to love & then trying to change them? I've had too many women do that to me & it's infuriating. One thing I hate is, if I tell you I don't wear certain colors, why would you buy me things in those colors? If I tell you I'm not a rap fan, why would you try to get me to wear hip-hop fashions? Why would you try to get me to embrace music that I don't like? Or cut my hair a different way? I'm 36 years old. I think by now I know what I do & don't like.

God, we are both the same age so we can relate. It seems like some men just cannot accept the fact that I will not tolerate certain things around me, like, binge drinking. But I'm the one that's in error. I've also been interested in a man whom I knew was married for a long time, but yet I've told him if he was interested in me I'm looking for a man who is totally free and that he'd need to get a divorce from his wife because I will not take the sinful role of the deluded mistress, yet I'm the one that has the problem. I was advised by my friend in Reno to just forget about him, and I think I'll take her advice because I was happier before I met him as well as his former associate. I just have a feeling there's a man out there in the world more suited to my personality and my needs who can be strong and mature enough for me.

[Chris Wallace]

The problem there is, I think everyone has a mature side & an immature side. It's a matter of getting them in sync.

[SoulManX]

I always say, nobody goes to an art auction & brings home a lump of clay or a blank canvas. You bring home a finished work of art. What's the point in looking for someone to love & then trying to change them? I've had too many women do that to me & it's infuriating. One thing I hate is, if I tell you I don't wear certain colors, why would you buy me things in those colors? If I tell you I'm not a rap fan, why would you try to get me to wear hip-hop fashions? Why would you try to get me to embrace music that I don't like? Or cut my hair a different way? I'm 36 years old. I think by now I know what I do & don't like.

:up:

[Chris Wallace]

You know, if it meant meeting a man who was my soulmate, I would move halfway across the world for him because I'm starting to grow weary of where I am right now haunted by too many ghosts.

Oh-I forgot to add "pissing off my family & alienating most of my friends" to the list of sacrifices I made for this relationship.

[taskmaster]

Oh-I forgot to add "pissing off my family & alienating most of my friends" to the list of sacrifices I made for this relationship.

There is the first problem. Never do that to your friends and family, they're the ones who'll be there when you have a break-up, unless of course you gave them up for said relationship. Women are never worth losing your friends and family, never.

[SoulManX]

Oh-I forgot to add "pissing off my family & alienating most of my friends" to the list of sacrifices I made for this relationship.

Been down that road...not a lovely road either...no pretty flowers on that road or even a rest stop:csad:

[Chris Wallace]

There is the first problem. Never do that to your friends and family, they're the ones who'll be there when you have a break-up, unless of course you gave them up for said relationship. Women are never worth losing your friends and family, never.

I didn't give them up. But they were mad at me for a while. Mainly b/c I was moving, not necessarily why. And a lot of them were really hoping that I would get back with my ex. So it seemed they were more concerned about what they wanted rather than what I wanted. It felt like that show "Momma's Boys." And speaking of which, my mom (whose own relationship choices have ensured that I will NEVER take her advice in that department) is now living with the aforementioned ex, which has created some real tension & awkwardness.
And SoulManX is right. It did suck for a while. And I feel like real friends have your back whether they agree with your decisions or not.

[taskmaster]

I didn't give them up. But they were mad at me for a while. Mainly b/c I was moving, not necessarily why. And a lot of them were really hoping that I would get back with my ex. So it seemed they were more concerned about what they wanted rather than what I wanted. It felt like that show "Momma's Boys." And speaking of which, my mom (whose own relationship choices have ensured that I will NEVER take her advice in that department) is now living with the aforementioned ex, which has created some real tension & awkwardness.

Yeah, the whole getting back with ex's is also a bad idea. I had a bad experience with a girl who ended up leaving me for a guy who I considered one of my best friends. After they broke up they both started to talk to me again and I guess I just couldn't let it go and tried to get back with her. Needless to say it didn't end well and now I don't talk to either of them anymore, that's for the best. I've pretty much given up trying to find a long lasting relationship at my age. Maybe later in my life but right now people are only concerned with themselves.

[Chris Wallace]

I can truly understand that.

[SoulManX]

Another favorite of mine is when she is married...this happen to me. She calls me up to say she made a mistake getting marrying and wish I would be a part of life again...wtf?!

[Chris Wallace]

Never had that one. Did have one who dumped me for a guy who she knew was married, & then called me looking for sympathy when he started mistreating her.

[SoulManX]

Never had that one. Did have one who dumped me for a guy who she knew was married, & then called me looking for sympathy when he started mistreating her.


Lovely:o

[taskmaster]

Another favorite of mine is when she is married...this happen to me. She calls me up to say she made a mistake getting marrying and wish I would be a part of life again...wtf?!

That's another thing that has been bothering me, people at my age getting married(I'm 18 btw). Do they not get that most of their relationships will fail? None of these people getting married that I know are getting pre-nups. I don't want to even get into all the kids I know that are having children. Stop thinking with your dick and make some intelligent decisions. I hate the thought of, "Oh, I'm 18, I'm an Adult now and I can handle anything. You can't tell me what to do and you don't know what is best for me because I'm 18 and that means I can make any sort of dumbass decision I want." Just because you age has changed does not mean you are an adult.

[SoulManX]

That's another thing that has been bothering me, people at my age getting married(I'm 18 btw). Do they not get that most of their relationships will fail? None of these people getting married that I know are getting pre-nups. I don't want to even get into all the kids I know that are having children. Stop thinking with your dick and make some intelligent decisions. I hate the thought of, "Oh, I'm 18, I'm an Adult now and I can handle anything. You can't tell me what to do and you don't know what is best for me because I'm 18 and that means I can make any sort of dumbass decision I want." Just because you age has changed does not mean you are an adult.

Lust is a ***** sometimes:o

[Chris Wallace]

Some are just eager to get married. Some are afraid to be alone. Some hit the skins & don't know the difference between lust & love. Some foolishly believe that every person who says "I love you" truly means it.

[SsM]

That's another thing that has been bothering me, people at my age getting married(I'm 18 btw). Do they not get that most of their relationships will fail? None of these people getting married that I know are getting pre-nups. I don't want to even get into all the kids I know that are having children. Stop thinking with your dick and make some intelligent decisions. I hate the thought of, "Oh, I'm 18, I'm an Adult now and I can handle anything. You can't tell me what to do and you don't know what is best for me because I'm 18 and that means I can make any sort of dumbass decision I want." Just because you age has changed does not mean you are an adult.


Spoken like a true adult! Maybe you are one of the few teenagers that are actually worthy of being called an adult!

[SoulManX]

Some are just eager to get married. Some are afraid to be alone. Some hit the skins & don't know the difference between lust & love. Some foolishly believe that every person who says "I love you" truly means it.

:up:

[Silverstein]

I find the people who get stuck being "the friend" are better off that way. In every instance that a person has told me their love story and they are trapped in a circle of asking a person out and a person seemingly toying with their feelings, it was always a bastard or ***** who would ruin their lives anyway.

So if you're "just a friend", take it as a good thing and find someone that loves you as much as you love them. I mean chaseter and Ace of Knaves did it.

[ShadowBoxing]

Sometimes I like friend zoning girls, it's kinda fun.

[Silverstein]

Well...all I want to do is try. But somebody told me that you have a boyfriend who looked like a girlfriend that I had in....um...I believe it was Februrary of last year. It's not confidential, I've got potential, ShadowBoxing, a rushing a rushing around.

[taskmaster]

Spoken like a true adult! Maybe you are one of the few teenagers that are actually worthy of being called an adult!

Nope, not quite, I need to get off of my ass and do something with my life. We all have our faults and mine is being kind of lazy, as in no job lazy but if I take a little initative that could change easily.

[SsM]

Well...all I want to do is try. But somebody told me that you have a boyfriend who looked like a girlfriend that I had in....um...I believe it was Februrary of last year. It's not confidential, I've got potential, ShadowBoxing, a rushing a rushing around.:facepalm


Such a terrible song.

[Spider-Fan]

:facepalm


Such a terrible song.

I echo that sentiment :dry:

[PyroChamber]

It always seems like women are actually fine with having a man as just a friend while men are the ones that want to be more than friends.

And as selfish as it may sound, sometimes I bet a lot of guys have wanted to say after being in the friends zone "well, you should have told me this before I wasted my time with you. I could have found someone better".

[Star]

It always seems like women are actually fine with having a man as just a friend while men are the ones that want to be more than friends.

And as selfish as it may sound, sometimes I bet a lot of guys have wanted to say after being in the friends zone "well, you should have told me this before I wasted my time with you. I could have found someone better".

Well, I'm a girl and I've been shunned to the friend zone like three times haha :csad: I don't think it's just men who get that

[Chris Wallace]

It always seems like women are actually fine with having a man as just a friend while men are the ones that want to be more than friends.

And as selfish as it may sound, sometimes I bet a lot of guys have wanted to say after being in the friends zone "well, you should have told me this before I wasted my time with you. I could have found someone better".

I've felt that way. And I don't get it. If you decide you don't want to be with someone, why would you want to keep them around? Now it's one thing if y'all have been friends all along & don't want to mess it up by trying to take it further, but if you start out dating them, decide it's not what you want & break it off, why keep hanging out with them? That's just torture. And it's the absolute LAST effin' thing you want to hear in the immediate moments after being dumped.

[PyroChamber]

And that's another thing I've wondered, what exactly does being the "guy friend" bring to the equation? I mean if the girl already has her girlfriends, what exactly am I there for??

[Chris Wallace]

Have you ever stuck around to find out? It sucks. What I've had happen is, you do pretty much everything you did while you were dating-hanging out, going to movies, dinner, etc., talking on the phone for hours-everything except for the physical aspect. And don't let her get with somebody else. Now you're doing these other things, all the while knowing that somebody else is getting the physical part.

[PyroChamber]

It's even worse if the woman is really attractive.

[SoulManX]

Well, I'm a girl and I've been shunned to the friend zone like three times haha :csad: I don't think it's just men who get that

Need a HYPE hug:yay:

[SoulManX]

And that's another thing I've wondered, what exactly does being the "guy friend" bring to the equation? I mean if the girl already has her girlfriends, what exactly am I there for??

We my friend are the shoulder to cry on, her ear, her sound board, and most of all we are her man computer for all thing men do:o

[Chris Wallace]

I don't mind doing these things for a woman I haven't been involved with, but it pisses me off being asked to do it for one that I have. My two best friends are women. I've known them for roughly the same amount of years, & while they are quite attractive, loads of fun and possess virtually EVERY physical attribute I find desirable, we are firmly and comfortably ensconced in the friend zone. I would never even think of trying to step to either of them that way. They're like my sisters, y'know?
I guess the central point-the quintessential question of this thread is this:
Can a true platonic friendship exist once romantic desires have been spawned?

[Knightsaber Priss]

You know what? I've come to a decisive decision that if a guy can't accept me warts and all, (And believe me I've got a lot of warts, like that planter's wart on my big toe.) then screw 'em. They can hang around in the Friend Zone if they'd like. What's the sense of even hanging out with a person if they can't accept the bad along with the good like a mature adult? We're not all robots who are programmed to only feel happy emotions right? I find the best medicine for a moody day is to just lock myself in my apartment and listen to aggressive Metal music until I feel better, then join the world again. If a guy can't handle that I have more emotions than just one then he knows where he can go. I'm open to guys who aren't perfect, who have emotions just so long as we both come to an understanding there needs to be some alone time to deal with them and calm down.

[Chris Wallace]

I've never tripped about a woman's physical flaws. I've never had one w/warts. I've had a few with moles, though. But to me, it's about being able to feel a connection with the person.

[Knightsaber Priss]

I've never tripped about a woman's physical flaws. I've never had one w/warts. I've had a few with moles, though. But to me, it's about being able to feel a connection with the person.

The comment about the planter's wart was actually supposed to have been a joke...but I agree, it is a good practice to not judge somebody by their physical flaws, especially if they can't help it.

[SoulManX]

I don't mind doing these things for a woman I haven't been involved with, but it pisses me off being asked to do it for one that I have. My two best friends are women. I've known them for roughly the same amount of years, & while they are quite attractive, loads of fun and possess virtually EVERY physical attribute I find desirable, we are firmly and comfortably ensconced in the friend zone. I would never even think of trying to step to either of them that way. They're like my sisters, y'know?
I guess the central point-the quintessential question of this thread is this:
Can a true platonic friendship exist once romantic desires have been spawned?

A yes and no...it all depend on you and how you handle seeing her or him in the arms of another wanker:o

[SoulManX]

You know what? I've come to a decisive decision that if a guy can't accept me warts and all, (And believe me I've got a lot of warts, like that planter's wart on my big toe.) then screw 'em. They can hang around in the Friend Zone if they'd like. What's the sense of even hanging out with a person if they can't accept the bad along with the good like a mature adult? We're not all robots who are programmed to only feel happy emotions right? I find the best medicine for a moody day is to just lock myself in my apartment and listen to aggressive Metal music until I feel better, then join the world again. If a guy can't handle that I have more emotions than just one then he knows where he can go. I'm open to guys who aren't perfect, who have emotions just so long as we both come to an understanding there needs to be some alone time to deal with them and calm down.

:up:

[SoulManX]

I've never tripped about a woman's physical flaws. I've never had one w/warts. I've had a few with moles, though. But to me, it's about being able to feel a connection with the person.

:up: :up:

[Chris Wallace]

A yes and no...it all depend on you and how you handle seeing her or him in the arms of another wanker:o

I don't know. When I break it off, I'm looking to cut her completely out. As I said, the only time I've really tried to be friends is when there was a kid involved. Otherwise, I lose her number & move on. Because I don't see the point. If I choose to break it off, either I no longer enjoy hanging out with you or I'm not as emotionally invested in the relationship as you are. If it's the former, then there's no reason to try to be friends & if it's the latter, why should I subject you to my continued presence? But almost invariably, whenever she breaks it off, she hits me with that "Let's be friends" number. LIKE I REALLY WANT TO SEE YOU IN THE ARMS OF ANOTHER WANKER! Apart from that, if you want to keep me around you then WTF did you break up with me for?

[Knightsaber Priss]

:up:

Thanks for the support. I might add what I've said can apply to guys as pertaining to girls too. Sometimes after a heated discussion you just need to back off and cool down before starting peace negotiations.

[SoulManX]

I don't know. When I break it off, I'm looking to cut her completely out. As I said, the only time I've really tried to be friends is when there was a kid involved. Otherwise, I lose her number & move on. Because I don't see the point. If I choose to break it off, either I no longer enjoy hanging out with you or I'm not as emotionally invested in the relationship as you are. If it's the former, then there's no reason to try to be friends & if it's the latter, why should I subject you to my continued presence? But almost invariably, whenever she breaks it off, she hits me with that "Let's be friends" number. LIKE I REALLY WANT TO SEE YOU IN THE ARMS OF ANOTHER WANKER! Apart from that, if you want to keep me around you then WTF did you break up with me for?

It seems some women like that safety net that is you. Yet she does want to date you either but still wants you in her life. Humans make life so damn exciting:dry:

[SoulManX]

Thanks for the support. I might add what I've said can apply to guys too. Sometimes after a heated discussion you just need to back off and cool down before starting peace negotiations.

"Everybody hurts...sometimes":o

[Knightsaber Priss]

"Everybody hurts...sometimes":o

You know, I was actually thinking of a song from 80's female metal group Vixen called It Wouldn't Be Love (Search it on Youtube now I tell you!!!) that does talk about the very subject of people only sticking around for the good times when I was posting that.

[Chris Wallace]

You know, love is the ONLY arena of life where something this absurd happens? Have you ever heard of anyone getting fired from a job & being told, "But you can still come by the office & hang out"?

[SoulManX]

You know, I was actually thinking of a song from 80's female metal group Vixen called It Wouldn't Be Love (Search it on Youtube now I tell you!!!) that does talk about the very subject of people only sticking around for the good times when I was posting that.

Man o man have not heard that in long long time:yay:

[SoulManX]

You know, love is the ONLY arena of life where something this absurd happens? Have you ever heard of anyone getting fired from a job & being told, "But you can still come by the office & hang out"?

Chris we need to a trip on to the Love Boat:o



Love, exciting and new
Come aboard, we're expecting you
Love, life's sweetest reward
Let it flow, it floats back to you

Love Boat soon will be making another run
The Love Boat promises something for everyone
Set a course for adventure
Your mind on a new romance

And love won't hurt anymore
It's an open smile on a friendly shore
It's love
Welcome aboard
It's love!

[November Rain]

Yeah I was in the friend zone for a girl i liked in school HAAARD.

it took me a good while to get outta that one, even banished other women there just to get over that one.

Saying this, The very very worst friend zone experience I had is when neither party orchestrated it.

That's right, falling for a friend's girl.

and She fell for me too.

but we had to send each other to the friend zone for this dude, so we were both in the friend zone with EACH other desparate to be with one another but unable to. I remember her words

'I love you and you love me but we both love ben so we can't do anything'


now THAT hurts. Especially when said friend is trying to get you both to get on during and after their relationship ended. The very mention of her name makes my heart wrench.

It's so bad I've had to refrain from all contact with her and hae told my current lady if i am likely to cheat, it woudl be with her.

All other friend zones don't compare but when both parties want to be with one another but can't, that is the greatest pain of all.

I just rationalise it by thinking a) it wasn't meant to be, b) it will never be as good as it's played out in my head and c) she'll get someone who could potentially make her happy.

[Knightsaber Priss]

Man o man have not heard that in long long time:yay:

I admit I still listen to Vixen every now and again. :o I guess I'm just still stuck in the 80's.

[Chris Wallace]

Ouch, NR. That hurts. But I can top it. You know what's worse than falling for your friend's girl?
Falling for your girl's friend.
It was cool at first, but then out of the blue she started hanging out with us. A lot. Actually, what kicked it off was her son's b-day party. She'd never orchestrated one before & my girl volunteered my services, as she herself was unavailable. So this results in me & her spending an entire day together. Add to this, the kid's dad never showed up or called, so I found myself filling in in that capacity as well. Before I know it, she's hanging out with us every week and it was torture. And, just like your situation, it was mutual. But she believed there was a special place in hell for people who break up friends' relationships, & I didn't want to hurt my lady, either.

[SoulManX]

Yeah I was in the friend zone for a girl i liked in school HAAARD.

it took me a good while to get outta that one, even banished other women there just to get over that one.

Saying this, The very very worst friend zone experience I had is when neither party orchestrated it.

That's right, falling for a friend's girl.

and She fell for me too.

but we had to send each other to the friend zone for this dude, so we were both in the friend zone with EACH other desparate to be with one another but unable to. I remember her words

'I love you and you love me but we both love ben so we can't do anything'


now THAT hurts. Especially when said friend is trying to get you both to get on during and after their relationship ended. The very mention of her name makes my heart wrench.

It's so bad I've had to refrain from all contact with her and hae told my current lady if i am likely to cheat, it woudl be with her.

All other friend zones don't compare but when both parties want to be with one another but can't, that is the greatest pain of all.

I just rationalise it by thinking a) it wasn't meant to be, b) it will never be as good as it's played out in my head and c) she'll get someone who could potentially make her happy.

I wish I had Jessie's girl:csad:

[SoulManX]

I admit I still listen to Vixen every now and again. :o I guess I'm just still stuck in the 80's.

Welcome to my town...all 80's all the time...The WAVE 88.8:o

And coming up next after we pay the bills a thing about walking on sunshine...man I want what she is smoking.

[Chris Wallace]

Who the hell remembers that song? How old are you?

[Knightsaber Priss]

I don't know..I think falling for a guy or girl who is married might be the worst Friend Zone type issue I've been dealing with. And I've just had to come to the realization on my own that I will not settle for being a sloppy second mistress so loving a married man is a no go situation. Of course the worst thing for me that has eclipsed falling for a married guy is something that's always been a huge weakness of mine...and that is that I am hugely attracted to foreign men, especially Asian men, mostly Japanese.

[SoulManX]

Who the hell remembers that song? How old are you?

That question is directed at who:huh:

[Chris Wallace]

I don't know..I think falling for a guy or girl who is married might be the worst Friend Zone type issue I've been dealing with. And I've just had to come to the realization on my own that I will not settle for being a sloppy second mistress so loving a married man is a no go situation. Of course the worst thing for me that has eclipsed falling for a married guy is something that's always been a huge weakness of mine...and that is that I am hugely attracted to foreign men, especially Asian men, mostly Japanese.

Every morning on my way to work I listen to the Steve Harvey show. One of his daily segments is reading & responding to letters from listeners, seeking relationship advice. Almost invariably they're from women who have gotten themselves into a really crappy situation with a guy who's married, cheating, commitment-phobic, abusive-but most often married. And what kills me is they somehow manage to convince themselves that they aren't getting sloppy seconds or being a mistress. And Steve has no filter. He tells it like it is, all the time every time. But then my girl & I end up discussing our own thoughts on the letter. Some are hilarious, some are sad. But all are interesting.

[Chris Wallace]

That question is directed at who:huh:

The person who quotes Rick Springfield in 2009. 2/3 of the posters I routinely exchange with weren't even alive when that song came out.

[November Rain]

Ouch, NR. That hurts. But I can top it. You know what's worse than falling for your friend's girl?
Falling for your girl's friend.
It was cool at first, but then out of the blue she started hanging out with us. A lot. Actually, what kicked it off was her son's b-day party. She'd never orchestrated one before & my girl volunteered my services, as she herself was unavailable. So this results in me & her spending an entire day together. Add to this, the kid's dad never showed up or called, so I found myself filling in in that capacity as well. Before I know it, she's hanging out with us every week and it was torture. And, just like your situation, it was mutual. But she believed there was a special place in hell for people who break up friends' relationships, & I didn't want to hurt my lady, either.Guy friends are worse

losing a friend of a girl is much worse than losing a girl over another girl.

[Knightsaber Priss]

Every morning on my way to work I listen to the Steve Harvey show. One of his daily segments is reading & responding to letters from listeners, seeking relationship advice. Almost invariably they're from women who have gotten themselves into a really crappy situation with a guy who's married, cheating, commitment-phobic, abusive-but most often married. And what kills me is they somehow manage to convince themselves that they aren't getting sloppy seconds or being a mistress. And Steve has no filter. He tells it like it is, all the time every time. But then my girl & I end up discussing our own thoughts on the letter. Some are hilarious, some are sad. But all are interesting.

I think I'd posted this earlier, but what really kills me is when a married man falls for me, I tell them unless they are divorced there's no way we can have a relationship that goes deeper than friendship. And despite my listing my terms I'm the one with the problem. :whatever: It's like if I don't have sex with him knowing the fact he's married I'm not allegedly a grown up. I don't know...I always thought being a grownup was all about making informed decisions on how you want to live your life, whether it's what the in crowd does or not. I find it funny now how my thoughts have gone from pining over a married man to pining over a man (Hopefully 100% single this time.) who'd live halfway across the world. The greatest pain is knowing how big a divide there is not just physically but culturally as well.

[Chris Wallace]

If he's pressuring you to put out, then you know all you need to know. Nobody should demand or even expect sex from someone to whom they haven't fully commited.

[SoulManX]

The person who quotes Rick Springfield in 2009. 2/3 of the posters I routinely exchange with weren't even alive when that song came out.

I'm 31 and you have been hit by The WAVE 88.8...coming up next in half hour....Our House by Maddess...Who watching me by Rockell...Single Life by Cameo:o

[Knightsaber Priss]

If he's pressuring you to put out, then you know all you need to know. Nobody should demand or even expect sex from someone to whom they haven't fully commited.

I guess really it's not that I didn't want sex with the guy. In fact I kind of did...but not considering he committed himself to another woman. It's not that I want to force him to get a divorce. It's just that as per my lifestyle choices I'm looking for a guy who is not married, whether he's single or divorced. I don't know if he understands this completely. But even though I have no direct line of communication with him at the moment I'm not sure if he resents the fact I need to move on and find a man who's more closely my soul mate. I'm sorry to say this but I get American Beauty vibes when I think of us as a couple now, despite the fact age doesn't matter to me. Maybe it's for the better that we don't pursue this any further. As I also stated a few posts back, I just don't feel like my destiny lies here in this country even. I feel my romantic happiness lies on different shores.

[SoulManX]

If he's pressuring you to put out, then you know all you need to know. Nobody should demand or even expect sex from someone to whom they haven't fully commited.

WORD:o

[Chris Wallace]

I guess really it's not that I didn't want sex with the guy. In fact I kind of did...but not considering he committed himself to another woman. It's not that I want to force him to get a divorce. It's just that as per my lifestyle choices I'm looking for a guy who is not married, whether he's single or divorced. I don't know if he understands this completely. But even though I have no direct line of communication with him at the moment I'm not sure if he resents the fact I need to move on and find a man who's more closely my soul mate. I'm sorry to say this but I get American Beauty vibes when I think of us as a couple now, despite the fact age doesn't matter to me. Maybe it's for the better that we don't pursue this any further. As I also stated a few posts back, I just don't feel like my destiny lies here in this country even. I feel my romantic happiness lies on different shores.
Again, you are in the right in this debate. Frankly, with so many women giving their bodies willy-nilly & then trying to build a relationship afterwards, I admire you for sticking to your guns.

[Knightsaber Priss]

Again, you are in the right in this debate. Frankly, with so many women giving their bodies willy-nilly & then trying to build a relationship afterwards, I admire you for sticking to your guns.

Why thank you for the kind words. The way I see things I'm not really telling people they have to do things. I just inform them of what behavior I find acceptable and if they cannot respect my own decisions, then they're free to live their life however way they want to. I'm not stopping them at all from doing what they like. It's just that if they want to be with me they have to already have similar things in common with me in order for a relationship to work. I suppose most guys, like that married guy, would take that as trying to change them, but I'm not forcing them to change just to fall in love with me. I'm just laying down what I enforce as ground rules. I'm pretty flexible but there are just some things I will not do, like have a dead end relationship with a married man. Really, my decision is for his wife's benefit as well because I don't want to be the cause of a scandal between them because we haven't really been in physical contact with each other at all. It's mostly been of a more psychological nature...but now I just can't think of him in romantic terms anymore because I've changed and the feeling has passed. Maybe this is how it was meant to be because in my gut I know there's a man out there somewhere in this world, not just the U.S. who can give me what I need, and whom can respect me for my independence.

[SoulManX]

Why thank you for the kind words. The way I see things I'm not really telling people they have to do things. I just inform them of what behavior I find acceptable and if they cannot respect my own decisions, then they're free to live their life however way they want to. I'm not stopping them at all from doing what they like. It's just that if they want to be with me they have to already have similar things in common with me in order for a relationship to work. I suppose most guys, like that married guy, would take that as trying to change them, but I'm not forcing them to change just to fall in love with me. I'm just laying down what I enforce as ground rules. I'm pretty flexible but there are just some things I will not do, like have a dead end relationship with a married man. Really, my decision is for his wife's benefit as well because I don't want to be the cause of a scandal between them because we haven't really been in physical contact with each other at all. It's mostly been of a more psychological nature...but now I just can't think of him in romantic terms anymore because I've changed and the feeling has passed. Maybe this is how it was meant to be because in my gut I know there's a man out there somewhere in this world, not just the U.S. who can give me what I need, and whom can respect me for my independence.

:up: I hope you find it:yay:

[The Guard]

Have you ever stuck around to find out? It sucks. What I've had happen is, you do pretty much everything you did while you were dating-hanging out, going to movies, dinner, etc., talking on the phone for hours-everything except for the physical aspect. And don't let her get with somebody else. Now you're doing these other things, all the while knowing that somebody else is getting the physical part.

And the emotional, usually. It's not worth it. And in the end, you only enable the person you care for to have unhealthy relationships.

[Chris Wallace]

And the emotional, usually. It's not worth it. And in the end, you only enable the person you care for to have unhealthy relationships.

I'm sorry. You're absolutely right. He gets that, too. And then you're stuck listening to her talk about it.
Oh-and don't let that guy be a douche. Then you're in the fun position of "Do I tell her what I think, knowing she'll probably just dismiss it as jealousy, or do I keep my mouth shut & exacirbate my agony?"

[Knightsaber Priss]

:up: I hope you find it:yay:

Well, some thoughts and prayers might help me out in that respect. :cwink::woot: I already have one of my friends who lives in Nevada helping me out.

[SoulManX]

I'm sorry. You're absolutely right. He gets that, too. And then you're stuck listening to her talk about it.
Oh-and don't let that guy be a douche. Then you're in the fun position of "Do I tell her what I think, knowing she'll probably just dismiss it as jealousy, or do I keep my mouth shut & exacirbate my agony?"
:hehe:

[SoulManX]

Well, some thoughts and prayers might help me out in that respect. :cwink::woot: I already have one of my friends who lives in Nevada helping me out.

I'LL look out for ya:cwink:

[Chris Wallace]

Guy friends are worse

losing a friend of a girl is much worse than losing a girl over another girl.

Don't get me wrong. I would never actually do something like that. When I get with somebody, no matter what happens, her friends & family are off-limits. Period. No exceptions. She could get hit by a bus tomorrow & I will not step to her friend. Ever. And there have been times when my resolve has been tested. Like when she introduces you to her friends & you find out you've got the ugly one of the group? She ain't ugly, but she's nowhere near as hot as her friends.
Likewise, I would never EVER step to my friend's girl. No matter what.
But temptation is a mother******.

[Knightsaber Priss]

I'LL look out for ya:cwink:

Why thank you so much. I appreciate all the divine help I can get.

[PyroChamber]

And again, if she's got herself a new boyfriend, then why should we be there? She's got him now, let him be her shoulder to cry.

But I guess it's like what Chris Rock said about platonic friends, he'll be the one she goes to when the boyfriend ****s up; which unfortunately will once again lead to hope that something will happen with the girl.

[The Guard]

Hope springs eternal, even when there is none. It's best to rip yourself free of that cycle early on.

[SoulManX]

Don't get me wrong. I would never actually do something like that. When I get with somebody, no matter what happens, her friends & family are off-limits. Period. No exceptions. She could get hit by a bus tomorrow & I will not step to her friend. Ever. And there have been times when my resolve has been tested. Like when she introduces you to her friends & you find out you've got the ugly one of the group? She ain't ugly, but she's nowhere near as hot as her friends.
Likewise, I would never EVER step to my friend's girl. No matter what.
But temptation is a mother******.


YOU ARE RARE...some would be fair game is fair game:o

[SoulManX]

And again, if she's got herself a new boyfriend, then why should we be there? She's got him now, let him be her shoulder to cry.

But I guess it's like what Chris Rock said about platonic friends, he'll be the one she goes to when the boyfriend ****s up; which unfortunately will once again lead to hope that something will happen with the girl.

That crap doesn't always happen either...trust when I was in waiting mode I didn't get any cookie when he ****ed up:o

[SLVRSR4]

You know, love is the ONLY arena of life where something this absurd happens? Have you ever heard of anyone getting fired from a job & being told, "But you can still come by the office & hang out"?

My work actually said this, but the really absurd stuff only happens with love:oldrazz:

[Chris Wallace]

And again, if she's got herself a new boyfriend, then why should we be there? She's got him now, let him be her shoulder to cry.

But I guess it's like what Chris Rock said about platonic friends, he'll be the one she goes to when the boyfriend ****s up; which unfortunately will once again lead to hope that something will happen with the girl.

Damn it, don't bring that up! My girl's hanging with her platonic friend right now. It's cool, though. He's no threat, if you get my meaning.

[Chris Wallace]

YOU ARE RARE...some would be fair game is fair game:o

But that ain't fair. At least not in my eyes.
You know, people must think love is a game. Why is infidelity referred to as "cheating"?

[Chris Wallace]

That crap doesn't always happen either...trust when I was in waiting mode I didn't get any cookie when he ****ed up:o

I tried that once. Didn't work for me, either. No, it only works if she's single & has an itch that needs scratching.
Or-if she was already with him when she decided to make you her friend.

[PyroChamber]

Damn it, don't bring that up! My girl's hanging with her platonic friend right now. It's cool, though. He's no threat, if you get my meaning.You mean he's gay?

[Chris Wallace]

IDK if he is, but his boyfriend definitely is.

[Eggyman]

Maybe it's just a decoy...?

[Chris Wallace]

Nah. Not in this case. Besides, they've been friends since the Reagan years. He's as firmly ensconced in the FZ as you can get.

[SoulManX]

Nah. Not in this case. Besides, they've been friends since the Reagan years. He's as firmly ensconced in the FZ as you can get.

I got a story for you...a chick I almost married had a gay male friend that I so called trusted. Long story short they have 3 kids together she was banging this dude while we were together....

[Chris Wallace]

I would go on a stabbing spree.
I'm not the type to just go around suspecting my girl is messing around-even on occasions when I probably should have-but if you tell me repeatedly that you're not into somebody & then cheat on me with him-you got to go.

[Chris Wallace]

My work actually said this, but the really absurd stuff only happens with love:oldrazz:

WTF? THat would make somebody shoot up the place!

[The Batman]

Let's talk the friend zone. You know what I mean. There's two ways in which unfortunate lovesick people get banished to this dreadful place. You're really into somebody-I mean DEEPLY into them. To the point where those love songs on the radio don't annoy you so much? To the point where you just can't stop thinking about them? Then they hit you with, "I just want to be friends." It's infuriating. The second way is even worse, IMO. You're actually in a relationship with the person. It has its ups & downs, but you figure that'll pass. Or worse, you think everything's going swimmingly & then out of nowhere, this person dumps you. And it's bad enough you're looking down at the shattered fragments of your heart on the floor, when they suddenly pour lemon juice & hot sauce into the open wound by saying, "We can still be friends." Either way, it sucks. The first one's just bad b/c you feel stupid. You probably thought you were making progress, & they turn out to either be oblivious to your feelings. The second one is just like a dagger in the heart. Actually, it feels a lot like this to me.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/agreenbrotha/n45401086_31161477_67.jpg
You know what I mean? You can see out but you can't break out.
Now I've known people who have successfully managed to do this. Not me. Most of my breakups have been ugly, anyway, truth be told. Why the hell would I want to hang out with you after you've dumped me? That's like dangling a cheeseburger in front of one of those starving kids in a 3rd world country. "Ooh-look at what you can't have!" WTF?
So in this thread, I'd like to talk about the friend zone in general-maybe some experiences you've had being banished to this dark, dreadful dimension, some times you've had to put someone there, and/or just your thoughts on the subject in general.

lol...i was planning on starting a The Spawn style thread asking whether you'd rather be put into the friend zone or the phantom zone...

[Chris Wallace]

I don't know the difference.

[SoulManX]

I would go on a stabbing spree.
I'm not the type to just go around suspecting my girl is messing around-even on occasions when I probably should have-but if you tell me repeatedly that you're not into somebody & then cheat on me with him-you got to go.

Her excuse was the best...you don't spend nuff time with...please how can I with Plato under you like a the dog he is:o

[Gilpesh]

I don't know the difference.

At least in the Phantom Zone... you can talk to the Kryptonians... and figure out what the heck that big S did...

[The Question]

I'm in the friend zone. I'm actually starting to enjoy it. I mean, I started to realize, what's the point of all this wangst? It's not getting me anywhere, and she's a really good friend so it's all good. And then she got a boyfriend, and the wangst came back. But eventually, I started once again to see that it was really pointless. I mean, being wangsty only makes you feel like crap, and honestly, once you start looking at the friend zone from an outsiders perspective, it's really really funny. Yes, the woman I love is in the arms of another man and all that, and I'm excited. Sounds like fun. Far from boring, that's for sure.

I don't know the difference.

Simple. In the friend zone, at least you know you've got a friend. I mean, if you're actually friends, you should be able to talk about this stuff, or any of this stuff if it's bothering you, and be open and honest with each other and still enjoy one another's company.

[Chris Wallace]

Her excuse was the best...you don't spend nuff time with...please how can I with Plato under you like a the dog he is:o

Stabbing spree.

[Chris Wallace]

I'm in the friend zone. I'm actually starting to enjoy it. I mean, I started to realize, what's the point of all this wangst? It's not getting me anywhere, and she's a really good friend so it's all good. And then she got a boyfriend, and the wangst came back. But eventually, I started once again to see that it was really pointless. I mean, being wangsty only makes you feel like crap, and honestly, once you start looking at the friend zone from an outsiders perspective, it's really really funny. Yes, the woman I love is in the arms of another man and all that, and I'm excited. Sounds like fun. Far from boring, that's for sure.



Simple. In the friend zone, at least you know you've got a friend. I mean, if you're actually friends, you should be able to talk about this stuff, or any of this stuff if it's bothering you, and be open and honest with each other and still enjoy one another's company.
I have never successfully accomplished this. And how do you have that conversation?
"Seeing you in someone else's arms is tearing me up inside."
"Oh, really? Thank you for sharing that. You're such a good friend."
I can't stand to listen to my girl talk about dudes from his past. Every time she brings up an ex, the Nickelback song "Just For" plays in my head.

[SoulManX]

I have never successfully accomplished this. And how do you have that conversation?
"Seeing you in someone else's arms is tearing me up inside."
"Oh, really? Thank you for sharing that. You're such a good friend."
I can't stand to listen to my girl talk about dudes from his past. Every time she brings up an ex, the Nickelback song "Just For" plays in my head.

:up:

[Chris Wallace]

Now it's stuck in my head.

[The Question]

I have never successfully accomplished this. And how do you have that conversation?
"Seeing you in someone else's arms is tearing me up inside."
"Oh, really? Thank you for sharing that. You're such a good friend."
I can't stand to listen to my girl talk about dudes from his past. Every time she brings up an ex, the Nickelback song "Just For" plays in my head.

That's exactly how it goes. Ideally with a little less melodrama (which I will admit I do have a tendency to fall into sometimes), but the fact is, friends share their feelings. Friends help each other get through stuff. Getting all nervous and bottled up around her will just make the relationship worse.

[The Question]

I mean, here's my point: You're in an unpleasant situation. Obviously. Why make it worse by being wangsty about it? Look at the positives. If you and her are truly friends, then that's something to cherish and celebrate. And if you actually think of her as your friend, then you should be able to talk about this stuff. Yeah, you'll get nervous. My hands were shaking last time the subject came up. But if she's your friend, she'll understand and things will be just fine. Me and the girl I'm in the friend zone with, we have a great relationship. It used to be **** because I got all nervous and distant around her. But when I decided to be open and honest with her, and completely honest with myself at all times about my feelings and how they were effecting me, then it all became easier to manage, and we became a lot closer. And that's what's really important. As the old saying goes, women come and go, but friends are forever.

And also, yes, I would like some day to get all romantical with her. But being a nervous wreck around her's never gonna get the job done. If it's ever gonna happen, it's gonna happen because I'm open, honest, and confident. And confidence comes, very slowly I will admit, by being open and honest.

[Knightsaber Priss]

That's exactly how it goes. Ideally with a little less melodrama (which I will admit I do have a tendency to fall into sometimes), but the fact is, friends share their feelings. Friends help each other get through stuff. Getting all nervous and bottled up around her will just make the relationship worse.

Ah ah...talking about exes is a big relationship no no according to most Relationship experts. Why bring up the past when you should be enjoying what you have now? Doing comparisons or talking about things the ex did just makes the new guy/girl feel like he has to compete with the ghost of an old flame.

[Hotwire]

I think we can all agree that no man would ever banish a girl to "the friend zone". Well, maybe if he was gay, but that's the only way I could see this happening.

[Knightsaber Priss]

I think we can all agree that no man would ever banish a girl to "the friend zone". Well, maybe if he was gay, but that's the only way I could see this happening.

How about guys that flip flop between the zones?

[November Rain]

I mean, here's my point: You're in an unpleasant situation. Obviously. Why make it worse by being wangsty about it? Look at the positives. If you and her are truly friends, then that's something to cherish and celebrate. And if you actually think of her as your friend, then you should be able to talk about this stuff. Yeah, you'll get nervous. My hands were shaking last time the subject came up. But if she's your friend, she'll understand and things will be just fine. Me and the girl I'm in the friend zone with, we have a great relationship. It used to be **** because I got all nervous and distant around her. But when I decided to be open and honest with her, and completely honest with myself at all times about my feelings and how they were effecting me, then it all became easier to manage, and we became a lot closer. And that's what's really important. As the old saying goes, women come and go, but friends are forever.

And also, yes, I would like some day to get all romantical with her. But being a nervous wreck around her's never gonna get the job done. If it's ever gonna happen, it's gonna happen because I'm open, honest, and confident. And confidence comes, very slowly I will admit, by being open and honest.
Sounds to me is that she wants you around to make herself feel better about herself knowing there's at least someone she can mindscrew if she's feeling down.

being a friend zone pet is not good.

[Hotwire]

How about guys that flip flop between the zones?
How so?

[SoulManX]

Sounds to me is that she wants you around to make herself feel better about herself knowing there's at least someone she can mindscrew if she's feeling down.

being a friend zone pet is not good.

I support this message:o

Paid for by the NO FREIND ZONE ALLIANCE of greater ALASKA:word:

[Knightsaber Priss]

How so?

Well, people that go from wanting to be a friend then wanting to be lovers then back again.

[Hotwire]

Well, people that go from wanting to be a friend then wanting to be lovers then back again.
Ah, those guys. Well, they're not looking for relationships. They just want to get laid.

[ShadowBoxing]

I have never successfully accomplished this. And how do you have that conversation?
"Seeing you in someone else's arms is tearing me up inside."
"Oh, really? Thank you for sharing that. You're such a good friend."
I can't stand to listen to my girl talk about dudes from his past. Every time she brings up an ex, the Nickelback song "Just For" plays in my head.
You have to listen to Nickelback on top of hearing her talk about exes:csad: I'm so sorry.
I mean, here's my point: You're in an unpleasant situation. Obviously. Why make it worse by being wangsty about it? Look at the positives. If you and her are truly friends, then that's something to cherish and celebrate. And if you actually think of her as your friend, then you should be able to talk about this stuff. Yeah, you'll get nervous. My hands were shaking last time the subject came up. But if she's your friend, she'll understand and things will be just fine. Me and the girl I'm in the friend zone with, we have a great relationship. It used to be **** because I got all nervous and distant around her. But when I decided to be open and honest with her, and completely honest with myself at all times about my feelings and how they were effecting me, then it all became easier to manage, and we became a lot closer. And that's what's really important. As the old saying goes, women come and go, but friends are forever.

And also, yes, I would like some day to get all romantical with her. But being a nervous wreck around her's never gonna get the job done. If it's ever gonna happen, it's gonna happen because I'm open, honest, and confident. And confidence comes, very slowly I will admit, by being open and honest.
Wow, you might as well go home and fornicate yourself with a rusty lead pipe -- that sounds about as fun as being with your "friend".

I have many friends, but none I want to get "romantical" with. If you have a friendship, yet you want to f*** your friend and she doesn't want to f*** you, that friendship is in dire straights. See, you don't have a great relationship, because you are not on equal footing and it isn't based on honesty.

"Hey, I really love you"
"Wow, you're such a great friend...but could you please hold my coat while I f*** the Bejesus out of this other guy?...that's what friends are for after all"

See the disconnect. She knows you like her and is constantly keeping you at arms length, never wishing to indulge those feelings. (Also, trust me, if she does, it won't turn out all flowers and sunshine either -- just a ton of drama) So instead she keeps you around as a co-dependent, someone she can dump her problems on because, hey, she knows you'll listen and she knows she never has to do jacksh** for you to keep you around. You'd be more honest in saying "you know what, if you don't like me...fine...go f*** yourself and I'll find someone else". At least then she'd know what she had to do to warrant your attention.

Instead you just pretend to be her friend, in hopes of something more, and she pretends to be your friend, because she knows it doesn't require any committment. Bad mojo right there.

[November Rain]

I support this message:o

Paid for by the NO FREIND ZONE ALLIANCE of greater ALASKA:word:
The Friend Zone is not really that bad a place, it's those who stay there for an unnecessary length of time.

It's kinda like having your parents over, it has to be done sometime but sooner or later, you gotta tell those ****ers to get the **** out!!!!

most qualms with the friend zone is people over staying their welcome or thinking they can evolve out of it.

Most women seem to bypass the friend zone and go straight to harassing someone else.

[Erzengel]

I think almost every guy in their lifetime has liked a female friend and have uttered the memorable line, "I really like her, but I don't want to lose her as a friend." That must be one of the most ridiculous line of bull out there.

If you really like her but don't want to to mess up the friendship. You are SETTLING!!! Dress it up how ever you want, that's what you are doing. I agree with SB. Either tell her and things work out, or send her to the curb. Or if the very off chance, you meet someone else, then try and get back to that friendship with her. However, more often times than not, you get so involved with that other girl, that you spend less and less time worrying about that friend girl.

[ShadowBoxing]

I think almost every guy in their lifetime has liked a female friend and have uttered the memorable line, "I really like her, but I don't want to lose her as a friend." That must be one of the most ridiculous line of bull out there.

I mean, don't get me wrong, there are some reasons to settle. For example, there are some cases where I know girls who I really like, but I just feel like I'd be either sacrificing too much by trying to get with them or that the relationship would be all kinds of inappropriate. Roommates, utility friends (i.e. people who provide you with something), co-workers, friends' sisters -- that sort of thing, those people you might want to even cause a "friend zone" situation, just because the awkwardness isn't worth it. Though, those are entirely different levels.

If you really like her but don't want to to mess up the friendship. You are SETTLING!!! Dress it up how ever you want, that's what you are doing. I agree with SB. Either tell her and things work out, or send her to the curb. Or if the very off chance, you meet someone else, then try and get back to that friendship with her. However, more often times than not, you get so involved with that other girl, that you spend less and less time worrying about that friend girl.
We're definitely on the same page though. I think Ryan Reynolds said it best; "With women, it's always one of two things. Either they won't sleep with you, and then there's really no need to ever call them again. Or they DO sleep with you... and then there's really no need to ever call them again."

[SoulManX]

The Friend Zone is not really that bad a place, it's those who stay there for an unnecessary length of time.

It's kinda like having your parents over, it has to be done sometime but sooner or later, you gotta tell those ****ers to get the **** out!!!!

most qualms with the friend zone is people over staying their welcome or thinking they can evolve out of it.

Most women seem to bypass the friend zone and go straight to harassing someone else.

Ah and yet I have seen some poor bastards still stuck there try find some hope of it becoming a relationship...poor souls:csad:

[SoulManX]

I think almost every guy in their lifetime has liked a female friend and have uttered the memorable line, "I really like her, but I don't want to lose her as a friend." That must be one of the most ridiculous line of bull out there.

If you really like her but don't want to to mess up the friendship. You are SETTLING!!! Dress it up how ever you want, that's what you are doing. I agree with SB. Either tell her and things work out, or send her to the curb. Or if the very off chance, you meet someone else, then try and get back to that friendship with her. However, more often times than not, you get so involved with that other girl, that you spend less and less time worrying about that friend girl.

Well put sir:o

[Chris Wallace]

Well, people that go from wanting to be a friend then wanting to be lovers then back again.

That's the FWB zone. Either you want them as your friend or your lover. Otherwise you're just tappin' it when it's convenient & sending them on their way.
Some of you seem a bit unclear on what does & does not constitute the friend zone. If you are comfortable with being that person's friend & desire nothing else from them, you are not in the "friend zone". Why? Because, as I said in my opening post, the friend zone is like the phantom zone. It's a prison from which you wish to escape but don't know how. You stay there because you hope to either become their lover at some point, or you already were & you're hoping to win them back. It is a painful position to be in, because you're basically accepting the scraps that they give you b/c they won't let you have the buffet, & you can't bring yourself to walk away b/c you're clinging to that hope that it'll change.

[Hotwire]

I think almost every guy in their lifetime has liked a female friend and have uttered the memorable line, "I really like her, but I don't want to lose her as a friend." That must be one of the most ridiculous line of bull out there.

If you really like her but don't want to to mess up the friendship. You are SETTLING!!! Dress it up how ever you want, that's what you are doing. I agree with SB. Either tell her and things work out, or send her to the curb. Or if the very off chance, you meet someone else, then try and get back to that friendship with her. However, more often times than not, you get so involved with that other girl, that you spend less and less time worrying about that friend girl.
No, the most ridiculous line of bull is, "I like you, I really do. You're just too nice."

[SoulManX]

No, the most ridiculous line of bull is, "I like you, I really do. You're just too nice."


Man I have heard that one...so many time. Now when I hear a chick say that i say so you want me to be an ******* and treat you like ****:o

[Erzengel]

No, the most ridiculous line of bull is, "I like you, I really do. You're just too nice."

Man I have heard that one...so many time. Now when I hear a chick say that i say so you want me to be an ******* and treat you like ****:o

I hate to break it to you but "You're too nice." or "I don't want to ruin our friendship." or "I just don't seem to think of you that way." and every other bevy of pleasantries means "I'm just not attracted to you." and she's just trying to soften the blow.

[November Rain]

The fact is if most chicks broke it to guys hard, there wouldn't be this friend zone phenomena

it is actually political correctness (in terms of dating) gone crazy.

The funny thing if you told guys straight up what you thought was wrong with them, they'll go fix it straight up (after a lil sulk) and stop making that same mistake. With this friend zone thing, you can remain an ass your entire life without ever knowing any different, repeatedly screwing up chance after chance after chance.

[Vapor]

I touched upon this when I first posted in this thread.. About been in the friend zone with an ex but I think it's the only time I've come out of the friend zone in a positive way..

I was seeing a girl for a year and she broke up with me for reasons which don't hold up in hindsight and really it became obvious she had broke up with me to get back with her ex but that's all besides the point..

Before she had got back with her ex I had told her it was him or me.. and she still chose to get with him.. but I couldn't cut ties with her. I still loved her and still wanted her back at this point.. So I suppose I was in the friend zone at this point but I think Ive managed to come out of it now.

'Cos it's been like 3 or 4 months since the break up now and I do still care for her a lot and to an extent I still love her.. and If im been honest I probably would take her back.. but I don't really want her back. We are really good friends and I'm glad we have stayed friends..

[amazingfantasy15]

That's the FWB zone. Either you want them as your friend or your lover. Otherwise you're just tappin' it when it's convenient & sending them on their way.
Some of you seem a bit unclear on what does & does not constitute the friend zone. If you are comfortable with being that person's friend & desire nothing else from them, you are not in the "friend zone". Why? Because, as I said in my opening post, the friend zone is like the phantom zone. It's a prison from which you wish to escape but don't know how. You stay there because you hope to either become their lover at some point, or you already were & you're hoping to win them back. It is a painful position to be in, because you're basically accepting the scraps that they give you b/c they won't let you have the buffet, & you can't bring yourself to walk away b/c you're clinging to that hope that it'll change.

Yeah, that is the correct definition. If you actually do become friends with the person, you don't want them romantically anymore, sure every so often the old feelings may crop up, but it's very rare. I've had two girls I really liked banish me to the friend zone, that I kept hanging around in hopes of one day getting out. The first I actually did become friends with and now don't even think of her that way anymore and realize we wouldn't have worked anyway and we're good friends now, even better since I don't have that sexual tension anymore.

The second I could never reach that point with, we want out on a few dates and on the third she mentioned that she didn't want a boyfriend at the time. Which confused me since we were on a date, but found out I asked her out basically within a week of breaking up with her ex-boyfriend. So I stayed around hoping she'd get over the ex and the times we hung out would actually become dates. I think I might have had a couple chances to change our relationship, but the signals were mixed and she eventually started dating someone else. At that point, I just stopped calling, couldn't listen to her talk about her boyfriend and wasn't going to keep wasting my time pining over her. She eventually reached out to me again, but I just wasn't ready to get back on the roller coaster of emotions she put me through.

No, the most ridiculous line of bull is, "I like you, I really do. You're just too nice."

Actually it's not bull. Guys just don't understand the real meaning behind it. She's basically saying you're too much of a pushover and a relationship with you will be too one-sided and I'll end up walking all over you. You've put me on too high of a pedastal. Relationships need a give and take, when she knows there'll be no give and take, she knows it won't last. It's why on the first few dates it's good lightly make fun of the girl, not be mean, more the occasional sarcastic comment.

[The Guard]

The real meaning behind it means the complete opposite?

Wow.

God forbid a person says what they mean once in a while.

[Erzengel]

Well I understand it. I mean, "I'm sorry I'm just not attracted to you." while honest, is pretty hurtful. You just need to know how to decipher what they mean.

[SoulManX]

The fact is if most chicks broke it to guys hard, there wouldn't be this friend zone phenomena

it is actually political correctness (in terms of dating) gone crazy.

The funny thing if you told guys straight up what you thought was wrong with them, they'll go fix it straight up (after a lil sulk) and stop making that same mistake. With this friend zone thing, you can remain an ass your entire life without ever knowing any different, repeatedly screwing up chance after chance after chance.

Co-Sign:o

[The Guard]

Well I understand it. I mean, "I'm sorry I'm just not attracted to you." while honest, is pretty hurtful. You just need to know how to decipher what they mean.

Yes, speaking in code is always better than being direct.

[Erzengel]

Welcome to dating. :huh:

[amazingfantasy15]

Yes, speaking in code is always better than being direct.

It all boils down to the same thing either I don't want to see you naked or I don't want to see you naked anymore.

[Chris Wallace]

Man I have heard that one...so many time. Now when I hear a chick say that i say so you want me to be an ******* and treat you like ****:o

Ugh. So have I.

[Chris Wallace]

Yeah, that is the correct definition. If you actually do become friends with the person, you don't want them romantically anymore, sure every so often the old feelings may crop up, but it's very rare. I've had two girls I really liked banish me to the friend zone, that I kept hanging around in hopes of one day getting out. The first I actually did become friends with and now don't even think of her that way anymore and realize we wouldn't have worked anyway and we're good friends now, even better since I don't have that sexual tension anymore.

The second I could never reach that point with, we want out on a few dates and on the third she mentioned that she didn't want a boyfriend at the time. Which confused me since we were on a date, but found out I asked her out basically within a week of breaking up with her ex-boyfriend. So I stayed around hoping she'd get over the ex and the times we hung out would actually become dates. I think I might have had a couple chances to change our relationship, but the signals were mixed and she eventually started dating someone else. At that point, I just stopped calling, couldn't listen to her talk about her boyfriend and wasn't going to keep wasting my time pining over her. She eventually reached out to me again, but I just wasn't ready to get back on the roller coaster of emotions she put me through.



Actually it's not bull. Guys just don't understand the real meaning behind it. She's basically saying you're too much of a pushover and a relationship with you will be too one-sided and I'll end up walking all over you. You've put me on too high of a pedastal. Relationships need a give and take, when she knows there'll be no give and take, she knows it won't last. It's why on the first few dates it's good lightly make fun of the girl, not be mean, more the occasional sarcastic comment.

Paragraph 1-something very similar happened to me, years ago. We'd been friends for a long time, & I'd occasionally had romantic thoughts about her but never acted on them. I'd even told her once, but it was no biggie. Then while I was stationed in Japan & regularly corresponding with her, somehow we arrived at the decision to give it a try. It sounded great on paper but when we were face-to-face, there was just no chemistry. She decided to terminate everything including the friendship for awhile, but we did eventually get it back. I'm glad we didn't take it further than we did, b/c I would hate to have lost her completely.
Paragraph 2-had a similar experience there, too. She'd been broken up with the ex for a long time but was by no means over him. We went back & forth, from dating to "friends" to everything in-between. It was sickening listening to her talk about him, & she just couldn't seem to make up her mind what she wanted.
Paragraph 3-I get you, but the women who've said that to me actually did dump me & get with guys who treated them like crap. So it's hard for me to totally go with your definition there.

[ShadowBoxing]

Yes, speaking in code is always better than being direct.
It's not speaking 'in code', they're being very direct. Code is some esoteric system no one understands save for a select few. Most people, save for the few with massive learning disabilities, understand social cues. Just because someone doesn't spell it out for you, doesn't mean they aren't being direct. If your friends say "hey this TV show is pretty cool" you don't automatically check to see how the television absorbing heat. And if I say "excuse me" really what I'm saying is "hey lard-ass, get your f---ing lazy butt out of my way", however I've come to realize it causes a lot less trouble and is a lot more effective just to say "excuse me". This is the world we live in. It is not a code, it's perfectly understood by anyone and everyone. I have this sneaking suspicion when people say "I wish you'd just been direct" it's because they did not like the answer they got and are trying to force another one. They understand perfectly what was meant, just refuse to accept the answer.

[Erzengel]

Paragraph 3-I get you, but the women who've said that to me actually did dump me & get with guys who treated them like crap. So it's hard for me to totally go with your definition there.

I think that also has to do with "attraction" and not just in an exterior sense. But maybe you were too accommodating, too nice. Maybe she wanted more of a challenge, maybe she felt like that's all she deserved is someone who treated her like s', or even she was too immature to handle a secure relationship.

Regardless, in the end it's usually about attraction.

[SoulManX]

it's not speaking 'in code', they're being very direct. Code is some esoteric system no one understands save for a select few. Most people, save for the few with massive learning disabilities, understand social cues. Just because someone doesn't spell it out for you, doesn't mean they aren't being direct. If your friends say "hey this tv show is pretty cool" you don't automatically check to see how the television absorbing heat. And if i say "excuse me" really what i'm saying is "hey lard-ass, get your f---ing lazy butt out of my way", however i've come to realize it causes a lot less trouble and is a lot more effective just to say "excuse me". This is the world we live in. It is not a code, it's perfectly understood by anyone and everyone. I have this sneaking suspicion when people say "i wish you'd just been direct" it's because they did not like the answer they got and are trying to force another one. They understand perfectly what was meant, just refuse to accept the answer.

preach it brother!!!

[The Question]

Ah ah...talking about exes is a big relationship no no according to most Relationship experts. Why bring up the past when you should be enjoying what you have now? Doing comparisons or talking about things the ex did just makes the new guy/girl feel like he has to compete with the ghost of an old flame.

What does that have to do with what I said? :huh:

Sounds to me is that she wants you around to make herself feel better about herself knowing there's at least someone she can mindscrew if she's feeling down.

No. She wants me around because we're friends and legitimately enjoy each other's company.

Wow, you might as well go home and fornicate yourself with a rusty lead pipe -- that sounds about as fun as being with your "friend".

I have many friends, but none I want to get "romantical" with. If you have a friendship, yet you want to f*** your friend and she doesn't want to f*** you, that friendship is in dire straights. See, you don't have a great relationship, because you are not on equal footing and it isn't based on honesty.

"Hey, I really love you"
"Wow, you're such a great friend...but could you please hold my coat while I f*** the Bejesus out of this other guy?...that's what friends are for after all"

See the disconnect. She knows you like her and is constantly keeping you at arms length, never wishing to indulge those feelings. (Also, trust me, if she does, it won't turn out all flowers and sunshine either -- just a ton of drama) So instead she keeps you around as a co-dependent, someone she can dump her problems on because, hey, she knows you'll listen and she knows she never has to do jacksh** for you to keep you around. You'd be more honest in saying "you know what, if you don't like me...fine...go f*** yourself and I'll find someone else". At least then she'd know what she had to do to warrant your attention.

Instead you just pretend to be her friend, in hopes of something more, and she pretends to be your friend, because she knows it doesn't require any committment. Bad mojo right there.

See, it's funny how you're making a lot of blatant assumptions that I gave no indication of. All I said is that I have a very close friend who I have romantic feelings for. And you start assuming all of this stuff about passive aggressive manipulation and whatnot that I gave no indication of. I will admit that things aren't always easy, but it seems to me that you're jumping to some pretty big conclusions about a relationship you haven't actually witnessed firsthand and know very little about besides a blurb of a few sentences.

[The Guard]

It's not speaking 'in code', they're being very direct.

It might as well be speaking in code. When it comes to relationships, you know darn well that people often hear what they want to hear, sometimes even when you are direct. Speaking indirectly to someone with high hopes doesn't do anyone any favors. It is obviously NOT understood perfectly by everyone, because people continue to misinterpret such statements.

[Ash J. Williams]

< --- feels the need to dramatically escape the friend zone.

[The Guard]

Grab his/her ass. That oughta do it.

[Gilpesh]

Grab his/her ass. That oughta do it.

As you also shove your tongue in their mouth.

Cause just the ass grab might be taken as a joke and laughed off.

[ShadowBoxing]

No. She wants me around because we're friends and legitimately enjoy each other's company.
Oh, right, I've heard this tune before. Sure, I enjoy lots of people's company. I enjoy most of my co-workers company, even as I'm filing away their exit papers. I enjoy the girl who makes my shakes at the gym, the guy who paints my house -- he's cool -- but I don't harbor secret 'romantical' feelings for these people. If that were the case then our entire relationship would be based on a lie, and even if I told them how I felt and settled for something less, it would still be based on a lie. So, no, you don't legitimately enjoy her company, because you are legitimately holding out hope for something more.
See, it's funny how you're making a lot of blatant assumptions that I gave no indication of. All I said is that I have a very close friend who I have romantic feelings for. And you start assuming all of this stuff about passive aggressive manipulation and whatnot that I gave no indication of. I will admit that things aren't always easy, but it seems to me that you're jumping to some pretty big conclusions about a relationship you haven't actually witnessed firsthand and know very little about besides a blurb of a few sentences.
Well, you're the one who brought this up, and everyone has pretty much given the same take as me. It's not hard to infer from experience what's going on here. You're not giving her any reason to indulge you -- which is the whole point. You've admitted romantic feelings for her, and admitted, quite frankly, that you've settled for something less. What reason does she have NOT to be your friend, exactly? You dote on her, and she knows she doesn't have to reciprocate one bit. What would happen if you said, honestly, because this is the truth; "You know what I have feelings for you beyond what this friendship provides, and if you don't like me in that way I don't think I could see you anymore"? Do you think she'd fling her arms around you -- no, because you already tried that one and she told you "well, I just think we'd better stay friends instead".

Basically if you weren't around tomorrow it wouldn't affect her one bit. She'd have a boyfriend, or series of girlfriends, who could do all the things you do for her now, and on top of it she wouldn't have to worry about secret romantic passions straining those relationships. You though, your free milk, she can go to you for anything. Free, no strings attached. That's not really a friendship so much. My friends know how I feel about them, it's not a secret, and when I do stuff for them, they reciprocate in kind. It's a very even playing field. Just like a relationship. I want to have sex with my then girlfriend, she will have sex with me, and vice versa -- either that or I'm not really seeing her.

Relationships are a two-way street, you're on the one way street. You have to stay in the place she has delegated you to. If you're in a friendship where there is one friend saying "well, we can be all this -- but we can't go here, even though I know you want to" then it's not much of a friendship. You're essentially putting yourself at a disadvantage. Not only are you her whining co-dependent, but you've basically stifled any chance of you moving on to someone new. Sure, the chance of you meeting someone else is there, but you'll constantly be comparing them to her and wonder whether by dating them you'll hurt your chances with the one you really "love".

Wolverine is the only one, apparently, who can make pining after some guy's wife look cool, badass and totally pimp. In the real world it's just pathetic behavior. I suggest if you want real, lasting friendships and real relationships, get off this kick you're on and find something new.

[Erzengel]

See, it's funny how you're making a lot of blatant assumptions that I gave no indication of. All I said is that I have a very close friend who I have romantic feelings for. And you start assuming all of this stuff about passive aggressive manipulation and whatnot that I gave no indication of. I will admit that things aren't always easy, but it seems to me that you're jumping to some pretty big conclusions about a relationship you haven't actually witnessed firsthand and know very little about besides a blurb of a few sentences.


It does seem like you are waiting for a bus that's never going to come. And it's something that most guys have dealt with.

One of the first girls I ever liked, had a boyfriend, and although we hung out and did stuff together AND she was aware of the feelings I had for her, I was settling for something less than I wanted. And me waiting around like a little puppy dog for the scraps of attention that I so desperately wanted is the same behavior I see in you.

I mean you can fool yourself all you want that you can handle it and you are okay with it, but having this girl as "the only girl in your life" or the "the main girl in your life" isn't healthy, and it's just going to make you bitter and unsatisfied.

Trust me, most of us have been there. Stop talking to this girl, until you are over her and find someone else.

[Chris Wallace]

I think that also has to do with "attraction" and not just in an exterior sense. But maybe you were too accommodating, too nice. Maybe she wanted more of a challenge, maybe she felt like that's all she deserved is someone who treated her like s', or even she was too immature to handle a secure relationship.

Regardless, in the end it's usually about attraction.

I definitely have to question the self-esteem of a woman who willingly stays with a guy who mistreats her.

[November Rain]

Yeah Question, Sorry to say it but you're in denial about it all and we all know it because we've all been there.

The friendship is phony on both sides unless you are able to move on to pastures greener and then come back to it with a fresh viewpoint.

[SLVRSR4]

WTF? THat would make somebody shoot up the place!

I was just there yesterday and I don't remember their names anymore.

This may not be about the friend zone entirely, but my old girlfriend dumped me and is already with someone else intimately. How do people in the friend zone feel about some person they hate doing this sort of stereotype character act you are meant to hate?

[ShadowBoxing]

Yeah Question, Sorry to say it but you're in denial about it all and we all know it because we've all been there.

The friendship is phony on both sides unless you are able to move on to pastures greener and then come back to it with a fresh viewpoint.
http://www.slublog.com/archives/denial.jpg

[The Question]

Oh, right, I've heard this tune before. Sure, I enjoy lots of people's company. I enjoy most of my co-workers company, even as I'm filing away their exit papers. I enjoy the girl who makes my shakes at the gym, the guy who paints my house -- he's cool -- but I don't harbor secret 'romantical' feelings for these people. If that were the case then our entire relationship would be based on a lie, and even if I told them how I felt and settled for something less, it would still be based on a lie. So, no, you don't legitimately enjoy her company, because you are legitimately holding out hope for something more.

Well, you're the one who brought this up, and everyone has pretty much given the same take as me. It's not hard to infer from experience what's going on here. You're not giving her any reason to indulge you -- which is the whole point. You've admitted romantic feelings for her, and admitted, quite frankly, that you've settled for something less. What reason does she have NOT to be your friend, exactly? You dote on her, and she knows she doesn't have to reciprocate one bit. What would happen if you said, honestly, because this is the truth; "You know what I have feelings for you beyond what this friendship provides, and if you don't like me in that way I don't think I could see you anymore"? Do you think she'd fling her arms around you -- no, because you already tried that one and she told you "well, I just think we'd better stay friends instead".

Basically if you weren't around tomorrow it wouldn't affect her one bit. She'd have a boyfriend, or series of girlfriends, who could do all the things you do for her now, and on top of it she wouldn't have to worry about secret romantic passions straining those relationships. You though, your free milk, she can go to you for anything. Free, no strings attached. That's not really a friendship so much. My friends know how I feel about them, it's not a secret, and when I do stuff for them, they reciprocate in kind. It's a very even playing field. Just like a relationship. I want to have sex with my then girlfriend, she will have sex with me, and vice versa -- either that or I'm not really seeing her.

Relationships are a two-way street, you're on the one way street. You have to stay in the place she has delegated you to. If you're in a friendship where there is one friend saying "well, we can be all this -- but we can't go here, even though I know you want to" then it's not much of a friendship. You're essentially putting yourself at a disadvantage. Not only are you her whining co-dependent, but you've basically stifled any chance of you moving on to someone new. Sure, the chance of you meeting someone else is there, but you'll constantly be comparing them to her and wonder whether by dating them you'll hurt your chances with the one you really "love".

Wolverine is the only one, apparently, who can make pining after some guy's wife look cool, badass and totally pimp. In the real world it's just pathetic behavior. I suggest if you want real, lasting friendships and real relationships, get off this kick you're on and find something new.

...uh huh.

You're talking as if you know both of us, and what our relationship is like. Which you don't. At all. You've never met us, you've never seen us together. From the sound of things, you're not actually talking about me and more talking about something that happened to you. Only reason I brought this up was to make the point that the friend zone can, in fact, be quite tolerable and can have some up sides.

[Erzengel]

What are the upsides? :huh:

[ShadowBoxing]

...uh huh.

You're talking as if you know both of us, and what our relationship is like. Which you don't. At all. You've never met us, you've never seen us together. From the sound of things, you're not actually talking about me and more talking about something that happened to you. Only reason I brought this up was to make the point that the friend zone can, in fact, be quite tolerable and can have some up sides.
So everyone here is just talking about themselves because we've all told you the exact same thing.

Sorry, you're in denial.

[November Rain]

Question, you've described this chick in your first post as the woman you Love

You're also saying you are wanting it to develop and you are trying to build confidence in yourself to let that happen which means becoming friends with her first

say what you will but that's not a real friendship.

You're buying time.

If you said to her 'I really wanna go out wit you or we can't be see each other', I'm very much doubting she'd go out of her way to keep that apparent frienship you have.

I know it's hard to take in but this is based on what you have said and given us. you're the one saying you are in love with your friend and want to go out with her and is waiting and gaining confidence to get there.

If you're goal is to be with someone, that's not a friendship. If the other person knows this, then they're playing games with your heart and friends don't do that.

[Erzengel]

You're in love with your friend.
You've told her how you feel.
She doesn't see you that way.
But she wants to be friends.
You are settling for less than you want.
Worse, you are waiting around for her feelings to change?


You might want to collect what's left of your dignity and walk away.

[The Question]

So everyone here is just talking about themselves because we've all told you the exact same thing.

Sorry, you're in denial.

I just don't see how you can make assessments like that about two people you don't know at all.

[November Rain]

well he's doing it because it's common sense.

[ShadowBoxing]

I just don't see how you can make assessments like that about two people you don't know at all.
You can put all the window dressing on it you want, but it is what it is. I notice you haven't answered Erzengel's question.

[The Question]

I hadn't noticed that he had asked a question.

[Erzengel]

Only reason I brought this up was to make the point that the friend zone can, in fact, be quite tolerable and can have some up sides.

What are the upsides? :huh:

:huh:

[The Question]

:huh:

Huh. Missed that. Anyway, I've already mentioned them. When you're in the friend zone with somebody, at least you can take comfort in the fact that you still have a friend as opposed to some far away girl you never talk to.

By the way, if it adds any context, I was friends with this girl for years before I ever started fancying her.

[Erzengel]

But that's a very old story.

Guy becomes friends with girl.
Girl becomes the only girl or main girl in guy's life.
Guy develops feelings for girl.

Taking comfort in the fact that you still have a friend, is settling. It's like wanting to drive an Aston Martin but you are given a Ford Taurus. You are rationalizing the outcome in order for you to feel better that she's not attracted to you.

I think she's like a lot of girls. She either thinks even though you expressed your feelings, you can handle just being friends, or she's a manipulative woman who knows you are at your beck and call.

Find another girl, be in a relationship and maybe you can go back to being friends with this other girl. Although, more often times than not, she will face from your life.

[The Question]

But that's a very old story.

Guy becomes friends with girl.
Girl becomes the only girl or main girl in guy's life.
Guy develops feelings for girl.

Taking comfort in the fact that you still have a friend, is settling. It's like wanting to drive an Aston Martin but you are given a Ford Taurus. You are rationalizing the outcome in order for you to feel better that she's not attracted to you.

I think she's like a lot of girls. She either thinks even though you expressed your feelings, you can handle just being friends, or she's a manipulative woman who knows you are at your beck and call.

I don't think I'm settling. Our friendship means a lot to me. Always has. I can handle just being friends. I wasn't always able to, but I've adapted, because I think our friendship is more important than giving into wangsty ********, and she agrees.

[ShadowBoxing]

Huh. Missed that. Anyway, I've already mentioned them. When you're in the friend zone with somebody, at least you can take comfort in the fact that you still have a friend as opposed to some far away girl you never talk to.
Well for starters, you aren't really her "friend", because friends aren't waiting around hoping the other one will eventually come around. Secondly, you could easily have a friendship with another person and skip all the angsty secret passions.
By the way, if it adds any context, I was friends with this girl for years before I ever started fancying her.
No, not really changing anything.

[ShadowBoxing]

I don't think I'm settling. Our friendship means a lot to me. Always has. I can handle just being friends. I wasn't always able to, but I've adapted, because I think our friendship is more important than giving into wangsty ********, and she agrees.
What does it mean, exactly?

[Erzengel]

Our friendship means a lot to me. Always has. I can handle just being friends.

If tomorrow she said, I was a fool, you mean so much to me, let's start dating. What would your answer be?

[BlackLantern]

I don't think I'm settling. Our friendship means a lot to me. Always has. I can handle just being friends. I wasn't always able to, but I've adapted, because I think our friendship is more important than giving into wangsty ********, and she agrees.

you're settling....

[amazingfantasy15]

If tomorrow she said, I was a fool, you mean so much to me, let's start dating. What would your answer be?

Or better yet, if this weekend the two of you were drinking and she started coming on to you, what would you do. Knowing on her part it would be a drunken mistake that she would regret.

[November Rain]

Time to call it...

qJQwHwP0ojI

[The Question]

Well for starters, you aren't really her "friend", because friends aren't waiting around hoping the other one will eventually come around. Secondly, you could easily have a friendship with another person and skip all the angsty secret passions.

But I already have a friendship with this person. Why destroy that? I mean, maybe we just have differing viewpoints on this, but for me, friendships aren't things that are easily discarded when things get tough. Cutting off all ties because of strong feelings, that would be unnecessarily angsty. Actually being able to deal with one's feelings and not let them ruin your relationships, that's what strikes me as being the mature thing to do.

What does it mean, exactly?

We've been friends for a very long time. When we first met I was very socially awkward and cut off and she helped bring me out of my shell and gave me some self confidence. Since then we've become really good friends who hang out a lot.

Or better yet, if this weekend the two of you were drinking and she started coming on to you, what would you do. Knowing on her part it would be a drunken mistake that she would regret.

I'd probably say yes.

Or better yet, if this weekend the two of you were drinking and she started coming on to you, what would you do. Knowing on her part it would be a drunken mistake that she would regret.

I would most definitely say no.

[Chris Wallace]

Question, you've described this chick in your first post as the woman you Love

You're also saying you are wanting it to develop and you are trying to build confidence in yourself to let that happen which means becoming friends with her first

say what you will but that's not a real friendship.

You're buying time.

If you said to her 'I really wanna go out wit you or we can't be see each other', I'm very much doubting she'd go out of her way to keep that apparent frienship you have.

I know it's hard to take in but this is based on what you have said and given us. you're the one saying you are in love with your friend and want to go out with her and is waiting and gaining confidence to get there.

If you're goal is to be with someone, that's not a friendship. If the other person knows this, then they're playing games with your heart and friends don't do that.
I'll be damned. It had to happen sooner or later.
November Rain & I are in full absolute agreement on something.

[Erzengel]

I'd probably say yes.
I'm assuming this was meant for my comment.

Then by that answer, I can say your friendship means nothing considering you would drop it like a bad habit in an attempt to date her.

[ShadowBoxing]

I'd probably say yes.

Then the friendship is meaningless to you, since you're willing to throw it away for something more.

[Erzengel]

Hey SB, credit where credit's due. :cmad:

[November Rain]

I'll be damned. It had to happen sooner or later.
November Rain & I are in full absolute agreement on something.
I'm not alllllllll bad....

I hope that obama thing didn't leave a bad taste in your mouth, I didn't mean to strike a chord.

s'all good Chris, s'aaaallllllllll goooood.

:up:

[The Question]

I don't see how that's throwing away our friendship. It's seeing a chance for the relationship to develop in a new, positive way and seeing what happens. Worse comes to worse it doesn't really go anywhere and nothing changes. It's not like we would be forced to stop being friends all together and/or forever if one of asked the other out on a date.

[Chris Wallace]

If you date & it doesn't work out, 9.5 times out of 10 the friendship is toast.

[November Rain]

this isn't pokemon, friends don't evolve....

lol

HAHAHA

[Erzengel]

I don't see how that's throwing away our friendship. It's seeing a chance for the relationship to develop in a new, positive way and seeing what happens. Worse comes to worse it doesn't really go anywhere and nothing changes. It's not like we would be forced to stop being friends all together and/or forever if one of asked the other out on a date.
That's naive. You are risking the friendship because any relationship has the potential of going south. Very few people can continue being friends with someone they have been in a relationship with.

Quick question, have you ever had a long standing girlfriend? :huh:

[The Question]

If you date & it doesn't work out, 9.5 times out of 10 the friendship is toast.

That's not what I've seen. I've known plenty of couples who have since broken up and are, these days, the best of friends. In fact the only ones I know that aren't like that are the ones where the broke up because it turned out that one of them was simply an ******* who wasn't really worth being friends with either.

Quick question, have you ever had a long standing girlfriend? :huh:

I will be honest here, no. I am speaking entirely from the standpoint of knowing myself and my friend and other couples who I've known.

[ShadowBoxing]

Hey SB, credit where credit's due. :cmad:
Not my fault we simul-posted:o

[November Rain]

where's that picard pic when you need it...

[Erzengel]

That's not what I've seen. I've known plenty of couples who have since broken up and are, these days, the best of friends. In fact the only ones I know that aren't like that are the ones where the broke up because it turned out that one of them was simply an ******* who wasn't really worth being friends with either.



I will be honest here, no. I am speaking entirely from the standpoint of knowing myself and my friend and other couples who I've known.
Are you in high school, college?

[The Question]

Are you in high school, college?

High school. Last year. Why?

[BlackLantern]

I don't see how that's throwing away our friendship. It's seeing a chance for the relationship to develop in a new, positive way and seeing what happens. Worse comes to worse it doesn't really go anywhere and nothing changes. It's not like we would be forced to stop being friends all together and/or forever if one of asked the other out on a date.

so what's it like living in Fairy Happy Make Believe Land...?

[The Question]

so what's it like living in Fairy Happy Make Believe Land...?

Wow. Sarcasm. That's original.



...oh wait. Damn it.

[Erzengel]

High school. Last year. Why?

You have a lot of living to do. And I'm really not trying to be condescending. But if the bulk of your opinions is based on your high school friends and what they've been through, trust me there's a lot more out there.

Many of us here out of high school, even out of college will tell you how trivial most of our relationships in high school were and wouldn't even count same as "real" relationships, especially is hindsight.

My point I guess, is you'll understand what most of us are saying after a few years when you are a little more jaded.

[BlackLantern]

I think a lot of dating, GFs, and all that depends on your surroundings...if the pickings are slim, it's a bit easier....I'm in Connecticut and you basically have to have a credit reference and a resume to talk to any serious women here...or have served a prison term....there is no happy medium

[The Question]

You have a lot of living to do. And I'm really not trying to be condescending. But if the bulk of your opinions is based on your high school friends and what they've been through, trust me there's a lot more out there.

Many of us here out of high school, even out of college will tell you how trivial most of our relationships in high school were and wouldn't even count same as "real" relationships, especially during hindsight.

My point and I guess, is you'll understand what most of us are saying after a few years when you are a little more jaded.

Thing is, that was condescending. I'm not sore about it. It's pretty common for older people to look down on younger people. Hell, I really saw it coming. But the fact is, none of the relationships I have now are trivial. I have a lot of really important friendships that I know, for a fact, I am going to stick with for the rest of my life. Now, I know everyone he's going roll their eyes at that, say stuff like "yeah right" and "you say that now," but without going into too many specifics, the fact is I come from a very different social environment than most people. The bonds formed there are a lot stronger than bonds formed in most academic environments, and last a long time. And from what I've seen, the romantic relationships are no less valid than ones formed in later life, and I can think of at least one that's resulted in a very long standing relationship and an engagement ring. The fact of the matter is, from what I've seen, all this wangsty ******** isn't that hard to deal with as long as you deal with it maturely. And I think that completely ending out friendship would be immature.

And honestly, I don't want to be jaded. I don't see cynicism as something to aspire to.

[Erzengel]

I feel dating is always about numbers. Ask out 100 girls, and eventually one of them will say yes. Telling a friend that you like her, and then waiting around for her won't improve your odds.

[November Rain]

I think a lot of dating, GFs, and all that depends on your surroundings...if the pickings are slim, it's a bit easier....I'm in Connecticut and you basically have to have a credit reference and a resume to talk to any serious women here...or have served a prison term....there is no happy medium
That's the way everywhere

you need a car and you're own flat to get anywhere in london

in sheffield, i'm lucky to live close to town so i can bypass the car and i have my own flat.

[Erzengel]

Thing is, that was condescending. I'm not sore about it. It's pretty common for older people to look down on younger people. Hell, I really saw it coming. But the fact is, none of the relationships I have now are trivial. I have a lot of really important friendships that I know, for a fact, I am going to stick with for the rest of my life. Now, I know everyone he's going roll their eyes at that, say stuff like "yeah right" and "you say that now," but without going into too many specifics, the fact is I come from a very different social environment than most people. The bonds formed there are a lot stronger than bonds formed in most academic environments, and last a long time. And from what I've seen, the romantic relationships are no less valid than ones formed in later life, and I can think of at least one that's resulted in a very long standing relationship and an engagement ring. The fact of the matter is, from what I've seen, all this wangsty ******** isn't that hard to deal with as long as you deal with it maturely. And I think that completely ending out friendship would be immature.

And honestly, I don't want to be jaded. I don't see cynicism as something to aspire to.
Yeah but the thing about us "older people" is we've been where you've been and back. And saying a relationship that went through all of high school is comparable to a 4 year relationship in your twenties is just being overly naive on the subject.

[The Question]

Yeah but the thing about us "older people" is we've been where you've been and back. And saying a relationship that went through all of high school is comparable to a 4 year relationship in your twenties is just being overly naive on the subject.

Why? What's to say that every relationship had between two 17 year olds is the exact same in one way and every relationship had between two 25 year olds is the exact same in another way? And how can you say that you've been where I've been and back. That's assuming that our experiences have been exactly the same. While I am sure there are some, if not several similarities, I can tell you for a fact that my high school years have been considerably different from yours.

I feel dating is always about numbers. Ask out 100 girls, and eventually one of them will say yes. Telling a friend that you like her, and then waiting around for her won't improve your odds.

Well then, it seems to me that we simply have a fundamental disagreement about such things.

[November Rain]

I feel dating is always about numbers. Ask out 100 girls, and eventually one of them will say yes. Telling a friend that you like her, and then waiting around for her won't improve your odds.
Too many eggs, not enough baskets...

I'm not sure why it is but the ratio of male:female friends in high school is always low so people tend to fall into this trap of falling for female friends.

I'm completely with you on numbers. The funny thing is that those guys who have been with lots of women will brag about the glories but they won't tell you about the thousand times they got rejected.

but that's all part of the game, you sing when you're winning and block out the bad times.

It's a skill men don't acquire till much later in life.

[Erzengel]

Well then, it seems to me that we simply have a fundamental disagreement about such things.
Do you honestly think your friend will one day turn around and see you differently? :huh:

[BlackLantern]

Or if you a slow starter, I was as I didn't really start dating until I was out of HS and in the military, you feel the need to play "catch up" because of all the stuff you didn't do in HS....

[The Question]

Do you honestly think your friend will one day turn around and see you differently? :huh:

I don't know. Probably not. I mean, I have no real way of knowing and it is technically possible, but as of right now it looks like it won't happen, and if it ever will, it definitely won't happen any time soon. But I never said I thought that, did I? I just said I fancied her but we were still friends.

[Erzengel]

I don't know. Probably not. I mean, I have no real way of knowing and it is technically possible, but as of right now it looks like it won't happen, and if it ever will, it definitely won't happen any time soon. But I never said I thought that, did I? I just said I fancied her but we were still friends.

Say this along with me, "I have enough friends." Now repeat. I mean you said it yourself, you'd say yes to her if she wanted to be your gf tomorrow. Which means you are willing to jeopardize your friendship. And yes, even if you 2 broke up you could remain friends. There is a possibility that you'd end up hating each other.

So, I don't see even though you've been friends with her before you started liking her, you don't realize that maybe you should back off of her for a while until you get over her probably by finding someone else.

[The Question]

Say this along with me, "I have enough friends." Now repeat. I mean you said it yourself, you'd say yes to her if she wanted to be your gf tomorrow. Which means you are willing to jeopardize your friendship. And yes, even if you 2 broke up you could remain friends. There is a possibility that you'd end up hating each other.

So, I don't see even though you've been friends with her before you started liking her, you don't realize that maybe you should back off of her for a while until you get over her probably by finding someone else.

It's not a matter of having enough friends. I'm not going to cut off this friendship because every specific friendship is important. To me, anyway. Cutting off ties with her, that's jeopardizing the friendship. I know me and her. There might be some sore feelings for a while, but we would never end up hating each other. We're more mature than that. I've accepted how I feel, I'm open and honest about how I feel, and things are fine.

[BlackLantern]

Erz isn't talking about hating each other....just about walking away if things aren't going to move forward...Ive done it, twice, it hurts but you deal and move on

[November Rain]

Well then, it seems to me that we simply have a fundamental disagreement about such things.
I lived a breathed a relationship with a chick in school, four years, 14-18.

we went to boarding school, we practically LIVED with one another and grew up together, when she inhaled, i exhaled, we finished each others sentences, we were the same person.

that's got nothing on my current chick because it's a fairly tale relationship in school. it doesn't take into account, bills and commitment and responsibilities and kids and all real life stuff.

all things in school are magnified because of the scale of it, options are less, so everything gets hyped. The hottest girl in school soon becomes fairly average in later life.

Now i know some of my school friends i will keep for life and also some of my female friends and i could now be friends with my ex because i don't want to go back there (i'm a different person) but you have to be honest about your relationship with this woman.

you said you love her. Not me, you did.

That means

when she gets married to a jerk, you have to support her and go to the wedding
when she gets pregnant and is a single mother, you have to be her friend
you have to tell her repeatedly to go back with her husband and not mess up kids future
you have to watch her making mistakes, not thinking you could have treated her better

you have to push her away when she's coming onto you drunk

you have to invite her to your wedding
you can't hit on her when your marriage is rocky
you can't ever compare your wife to her(internally or externally)
you can't take her calls in the middle of the night when she's upset because you have your own family problems
you can't wish for there to be anything more


those are all very much much the opposite of love.

if you honestly honestly can't say hand on your heart you can do that for her (a friendship is selfless, you shouldn't be thinking about what you can gain from it, i.e. a potential relationship), then you have to question why you are still friends with her in the first place?


I know there are people i can't be friends with and there's no malice about it, they know and i know we can't pretend to be something there's not and you have to be true to yourself. We can socialise, remain civil but there's a clear line and a mucky grey area we don't allow ourselves to fall into.

you may be able to manage settling or pretending or carrying on as nothing has happened now but it isn't real though.

if you invited her out with just the two of you for a meal, i bet you her face would pull that 'oh crap, he's trying it with me' look instead of just saying yes. That's how you know it's not real, there's too much concious effort behind decisions.

Again, if she started grinding up against you in a club, you'll probably think you have an opening, friends don't think that way, too much concious thought behind it all.

you're trying to pull her in and she's keeping you at an arm's length, when the situation changes and you break the status quo, your friendship limits will become very clear.

[BlackLantern]

I had a similar situation with a girl I had a serious thing for, but we became friends and I went to her wedding (she actually married a good guy) and we're friends now....