2009 NFL Draft Thread (aka Excel & Norman's personal b**ch and moan thread)

[StorminNorman]

The deadline for Seniors to announce came and went last Friday and the Senior Bowl was today and Mel Kiper Jr. has announced his first Mock Draft. It is official: the 2009 NFL Draft Season has begun.

To kick off the discussion I will give my own first Mock Draft (which is actually more credible than Mel Kiper Jr.'s) as well as my own top 5 QB, RB and WR (with other positions to be provided later.

1. Detroit Lions - Matt Stafford, QB Georgia

I believe Mathew Stafford is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning and combining him with Calvin Johnson could be just what is needed to bring Detroit out of the basement. Under OC Scott Linehan's careful eye this could be Culpepper to Moss 2.0.

2. St. Louis Rams - Michael Oher, OT Ole Miss

Many have Andre Smith as their top OT prospect, I am not nearly as high. Michael Oher has dominated in Senior Bowl practices and his staff will go through the roof if he continues what he has done in Mobile the past week. The Rams need help in many places, like the Lions, but unlike the Lions QB isn't a problem.

3. Kansas City Chiefs - Aaron Curry, OLB Wake Forrest

Curry may be the best overall prospect in this draft and he can play any linebacker position asked of him. While KC probably has a bigger need for an End, the Defensive End pool this year is deep, but their isn't a player worth a top 3 pick. Mel Kiper lost a lot of credibility when he had Kansas City picking Mark Sanchez simply because Tyler Thigpin proved he is a Professional football player last year.

4. Seattle Seahawks - Michael Crabtree, WR Texas Tech

No pick makes more since than this. Seattle Seahawks are a West Coast Offensive team desperate for a wide receiver. Michael Crabtree is a brilliant wide out perfect for a West Coast Offense. Mark it down.

5. Cleveland Browns - Rey Maualuga, OLB USC

Willie McGinest will probably retire and Andra Davis is set to be a Free Agent. In comes Rey Mauluga. This may be a reach and Cleveland may look at Malcom Jenkins but I think this fills the biggest need here. Like DE there are many starting CB's in this draft - some will be found in round 4.

6. Cincinnati Bengals - Eugene Monroe, OT Virginia

Bengals have big needs at Offensive tackle and Monroe offers top 5 talent at the six pick here. They have needs defensively at well, but unless Curry slips I don't see them passing on an OT here.

7. Oakland Raiders - Jeremy Maclin, WR Missouri

Personally I think Oakland should draft Jason Smith should he be an option here, but the Raiders rarely do what they should do. Maclin is an exciting, fast wide receiver - exactly the sort of player that has a little blue pill like impact on Al Davis.

8. Jacksonville Jaguars - Andre Smith, OT Alabama

Jacksonville's tackle corps was devastated this year, luckily this draft is exactly what the team needs. I am giving them Andre Smith over Jason Smith simply because I think Andre is a sexier prospect.

9. Green Bay Packers - Brian Orakpo, DE Texas

There can be some debate about whether Orakpo is the best DE in this draft, but the guy is a work out warrior and there is no doubt the Scouting Combine will help him as much as any player. He fulfills the Packer's biggest need here.

10. San Francisco 49er's - B.J. Raji, DT Boston College

I love B.J. Raji and he is exactly the sort of player Mike Singletary wants on his team. I am sure they would give a hard look to Mark Sanchez but I think being from USC may hurt him here (name the last USC offensive player to live up to his potential) and I think Singletary likes Shaun Hill.

11. Buffalo Bills Brandon Pettigrew, TE Oklahoma State

The best block TE prospect since Daniel Graham, Pettigrew also offers some potential as a wide receiver. He helps Buffalo in many ways and may become Trent Edward's new best friend.

12 Denver Broncos, Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia

Imagine Cutler, Royal, Marshall and Moreno running Josh McDaniel's offense. Now go change your pants. You could argue that the Bronco's have a bigger need to address defense, but if hiring Josh McDaniel's over Spagnola or Raheem Morris is any indication Denver may still be looking for the big O.

13. Washington Redskins, Peria Jerry, DT Ole Miss

Peria is not simply a great defensive tackle, he is a leader. The Redskins needs some soul on defense as much as they need a defensive tackle. Fill both needs with this pick. Offensive line could also be a target here.

14. New Orleans Saints Malcom Jenkins, CB Ohio State

If any team needs to trade down, its the Saints. This team would love a Center, but its far too high to pick one this draft. They could be equally giddy, however, should Jenkins fall to them in this position. A Linebacker would also be a possibility with this pick.

15. Houston Texans, Everett Brown DE FSU

Mario Williams is fantastic but he has no partner on the other side. The Texans really wish Taylor Mays had entered the draft, but they would be happy with Everett Brown as well whose has been projected as high as a to 5 pick. FSU has had a bad history with DE's recently, but I don't think that prevents the pick here. Should Dunta Robinson enter the Free Agency, look at CB as an option.

16. San Diego Chargers Beanie Wells, RB, Ohio State

Darren Sproles is not an every down back and LT is probably gone by April, enter Christopher Wells. San Diego may look at a linebacker here, but I think its hard to pass up a runner like Wells when there is a need.

17. New York Jets, Tyson Jackson, DE LSU

Tyson Jackson would be a fantastic addition to Ryan's 3-4 scheme and offers tremendous value at the 17 spot. Jackson is a better prospect than Marcus Spears was when he left Louisiana a few years ago. He could be to NY what Ty Warren is for New England.

18. Chicago Bears - Mark Sanchez, QB USC

Is Mark Sanchez a franchise QB? Probably not. Is he an improvement over what Chicago has? Hopefully. I don't think Chicago can afford to pass on a QB here, even though they would love to add Hakeen Nicks or another talented wide receiver. That opens the door, however for

19 Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Hakeem Nicks, WR North Carolina

While Tampa could use a pass rusher, Tampa's would do well to put someone on the other side of Antonio Bryant. Joey Gallaway should be on Dancing with the Stars and Michael Clayton shouldn't be resigned. While Tampa may be better addressing this need in the Free Agency, Tampa has shown an unwillingness to spend money.

20. Detroit Lions, Jason Smith, OT, Baylor

If this scenario plays out then Detroit may have a professional football franchise come August. I think Jason Smith will be the best tackle in this draft, but I think he could be overlooked due to how deep the OT pool is this year. Should he fall he is exactly the sort of franchise tackle many want Detroit to pick with the first pick, all with the fun of having Matt Stafford as well.

21. Philadelphia Eagles, LeSean McCoy, RB Pittsburgh

The Eagles have needs at Safety and Tackle but I don't think they are in a position to pick either with this pick. The Eagles also have a need for an RB that can run between the tackles and help the oft injured Westbrook.

22. Minnesota Vikings, Vontae Davis, CB Illinois

There may be some interest in Josh Freeman, but to me he screams Tavaris Jackson clone, plus Jackson's production at the end of the season is a reason to not draft a replacement, Minnesota needs a free agent, not a rookie. Vontae Davis gives talent to a group of corners that have little right home about after Antoine Winfield.

23. New England Patriots, William Moore, S, Missouri

Rodney Harrison is gone and the Patriots need a replacement. With Taylor Mayes returning to Cali, Moore becomes the top Safety in the draft. Its very Patriots like to fill your biggest need with the best player.

24. Atlanta Falcons D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt

The Falcons made great strides last year and Moore can help them continue in 2009. Their secondary is fairly lackluster and Moore is the smart playmaker the Falcons need. He could be a star on that defense. Atlanta would prefer a defensive tackle, but there is no option with this pick.

25. Miami Dolphins, Brian Cushing, OLB, USC

No matter what Kiper says, Parcells doesn't pick wide outs in the first round. You know what he does take? Linebackers. Cushing may be the best linebacker coming out of USC and he has performed great at the Senior Bowl. What may keep him from going before 25 is a history of injuries when with the Trojans.

26. Baltimore Ravens, Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forrest

Alphonso Smith may not be the most impressive player from a measurables stand point, but we see time and time again that measurables are not nearly as important as ability. Smith is a playmaker and his selection would help fill the one hole in Baltimore's D - the long ball.

27. Indianapolis Colts, Brandon LaFell, WR LSU

Wide Receiver is not Indi's biggest need, but they still need to replace Marvin Harrison and it would be hard to choose Evander Hood in the first round. LaFell is a 6'3 wide receiver that would make Peyton Manning very happy.

28. Philadelphia Eagles, Eben Britton, OT Arizona

Philadelphia will soon be losing Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan and Winston Justice isn't a franchise OT. William Beatty could leap frog Britton as the fifth best tackle in the draft, but right now I will keep with Britton.

29. New York Giants, Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR Maryland

If Burress was on the team I would give they would want to pick Clint Sintim from Virginia but without Plaxico the team has suffered from a severe lack of a deep threat. Steve Smith is a solid number two, but he can't scare a defense anymore than an ancient Amani Toomer. Heyward-Bey is arguably the second best WR in this draft and would give New York some teeth back.

30. Tennessee Titans, Percy Harvin WR Florida

Tennessee made the right pick when they selected Chris Johnson last year over a wide receiver, here they have a chance to pick a play maker with Harvin. He is stupid fast and would help in the Special Teams as well as giving the Titans a legit deep threat on offense.

31. Pittsburgh Steelers, Max Unger, C Oregon

Pittsburgh's Offensive line struggles are well documented, and while Alex Mack is the best Center in the draft, Unger is well known and respected for his ability to play any position on the O-Line. This versatility makes him a more valuable pick for Pittsburgh.

32. Arizona Cardinals, Aaron Maybin, DE Penn State

Bert Berry could be a free agent and the defense is still where Arizona needs the most help. Aaron Maybin is a fantastic pass rusher who is athletic and fast. He would instantly upgrade Arizona's ability to get to the Quarterback.

Top 5 at each position
Here are my opinions on the top players in each position. This does not always correlate with the best "prospect" and thus may look far different than my mock draft.

Quarterback
1. Matt Stafford
2. Rhett Bomar
3. Josh Freeman
4. Mark Sanchez
5. Nate Davis

I think its real easy to look great when you constantly play teams with significantly less talent - thus I am not in love with Mark Sanchez. I do love Mathew Stafford who has all the tools to be an elite NFL QB. Rhett Bomar would be a first round pick if he wasn't force to go to Sam Houston State.

Running Back

1. Knowshon Moreno
2. LeSean McCoy
3. Chris Wells
4. Shonn Greene
5. James Davis

I love Knowshon Moreno and his vision and elusiveness. He doesn't have the best speed or the best size but the kid plays with such excitement you can't help but enjoy watching him play. Shonn Greene is similar to this regard and I consider him to be a poor man's Knowshon on a Professional level. I question Beanie's durability which forces me to put LeSean before him.

Wide Receiver

1. Michael Crabtree
2. Darrius Heyward-Bey
3. Jeremy Macklin
4. Hakeem Nicks
5. Brandon LaFell

Crabtree is the closest thing to an "elite WR prospect" in this draft. Heyward-Bey was underused almost as much as Calvin Johnson was at GT and I think he will be a great Pro wide receiver.

Tight End:
1. Brandon Pettigrew
2. Chase Coffman
3. Jared Cook
4. Cornelius Ingram
5. Travis Beckum

Brandon Pettigrew is the only one I love right now, but I think there is a lot of potential in all five players there. Coffman is a 6'6 beast that is use to playing with the ball. Jared Cook is quick for a TE and could be a true offensive weapon. Ingram showed a lot in the National Championship game and Travis Beckum is easy to overlook coming out of underperforming Wisconsin but I think he has a future in the NFL.

Offensive Tackle
1. Jason Smith
2. Eugene Monroe
3. Michael Oher
4. Andre Smith
5. William Beatty

I cannot say enough good things about Jason Smith, this guy is a beast. Oher and Monroe constantly fight for the number two spot on my boards, I am giving the edge to Monroe simply because Oher's Senior Bowl game was less than impressive though his workouts during the week were a different story. I think Andre Smith is not nearly as much of a sure thing as many others, there are some real red flags there and even if I remove him he is the inferior Smith.

As to other Mock Drafts and quality draft sites I recommend:

www.draftcountdown.com
www.draftdaddy.com
www.draftking.com

My draft order came from:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-4-1074/Updated-2009-NFL-draft-order--1-thru-30.html

[FaT_tONle]

Jets need to draft Sanchez... no matter what Brett's decision is. And I can't see Pioli taking a LB in the top five. Go QB or Line.

[StorminNorman]

Jets need to draft Sanchez... no matter what Brett's decision is. And I can't see Pioli taking a LB in the top five. Go QB or Line.

Why can't you see Pioli taking what may be the best player in the draft? I mean isn't that the goal of the draft?

If there was a QB in this draft (outside of Stafford) that was significantly better than Thigpin, then yea - you go QB. But there isn't, so you don't.

Also Kansas City had the 31st ranked defense, so its hard to argue that they have a need greater than a fantastic defensive presence.

[StorminNorman]

On the Jets you can look at Josh Freeman in the 2nd round or Rhett Bomar - both, IMO, better prospects than Sanchez who has bust written all over him.

[FaT_tONle]

Whatever... it's too early to be annointing these guys... let's wait for the combine. Right now it's too soon to know what these guys are going to be.

[StorminNorman]

Whatever... it's too early to be annointing these guys... let's wait for the combine. Right now it's too soon to know what these guys are going to be.

Yes, because who cares about the evidence they have actually left on the field - as long as they can bench press and run a 40 or how well he can throw a ball without helmets, without pressure and out of a game.

The combine is useful.

Its not more useful than their college legacy.

You know the type of players that get noticed from the combine normally are?

Busts.

[ComicChick]

you really seem to know your stuff Norm :up:

I really wanna see Carolina pick up some talent this draft *crosses fingers*

[Kaleb]

You dont have Jeremy Macklin in your wr rankings :confused: ?

[FaT_tONle]

Yes, because who cares about the evidence they have actually left on the field - as long as they can bench press and run a 40 or how well he can throw a ball without helmets, without pressure and out of a game.

The combine is useful.

Its not more useful than their college legacy.

You know the type of players that get noticed from the combine normally are?

Busts.

Looks like Mel Kiper has flooded the SHH boards... :whatever:

[LegendaryCaleb]

No love for Ringer :(

[Dr. Jive]

Awesome Mock Draft,

One comment: While I wouldn't mind if the Vikings drafted a cornerback (and I think Davis will be a good one), it would be damn tough to pass on both Percy Harvin and Darrius Heyward-Bey. I also agree about drafting Josh Freeman in the first round.

Thoughts?

[StorminNorman]

You dont have Jeremy Macklin in your wr rankings :confused: ?

I truthfully just completely overlooked Macklin when typing this, I have fixed that.

Looks like Mel Kiper has flooded the SHH boards... :whatever:

I'm insulted.

No love for Ringer :(

I like Ringer, but I don't think he is one of the top 5 running backs in this draft. I think Ringer is very much a third round back.

Awesome Mock Draft,

One comment: While I wouldn't mind if the Vikings drafted a cornerback (and I think Davis will be a good one), it would be damn tough to pass on both Percy Harvin and Darrius Heyward-Bey. I also agree about drafting Josh Freeman in the first round.

Thoughts?

I think cornerback is simply a bigger need and I think this is a year where it would be more efficient to add another starting WR through the Free Agency instead of the draft. I think Sydney Rice has the potential to be a solid two receiver to Berrian. I think you can also find great quality in later rounds with receiver this year: Jarrett Dillard from Rice is a player who is a little small at 5'11 185 but I think compares well to a Jerricho Cotchery (6'0 205) who was selected in the 4th round.

[Excel]

Not a bad mock at all, actually. I doubt Maualuga goes top 5, and Maclin to Oakland would be a massive reach (though it is Oakland, so its actually kind of realistic). Hakeem Nicks will need a freakish combine to get into the 1st round, let alone top 20. I am also surprised you have Andre Smith ranked under Oher and Monroe. Heyward Bey also just screams combine freak. I can def. see him being drafted in the 1st round duie to his size and his 40, but Johnson was a far more polished wide reciever in terms of route running and hands. Bey is a track star who plays football, not the other way around like it was for wr's like him in past years whove become big stars (Calvin Jonson or Randy Moss). I also like that you dont have Percy Harvin the top 20.

To the guy who asked, it wont be that hard for the Vikings to pass on Heyward Bey or especially Harvin. Berrien established himself as a real big play threat, you have a great tight end, and Sydney Rice is incredibly young with a huge upside.

Re: the combine: the combine exists only to verify raw physical talent. Yeah, you have the yearly set of combine freaks (usually wide recievers) who are tall and run very fast, and everybody starts assuming they know how to get seperation and ignore game film, and they result in situation like the Patriots drafting Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings because Jackson had a much better combine even though Jennings was far more polished. Its why guys like David Terrel, Rod Grdner, or Freddie Mitchell got drafted well before Chad Johnson.

Anyway, this is how I currently see it going.

1. Detroit: Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia: if I ran the show, theyd go left tackle. But they are the Lions, and theyll do what the Lions do, and draft a talent prsopect and make him into a bust because they throw him into a terrible situation when he isnt ready for anything.

2. St. Louis Rams: Andre Smith, LT, Alabama: the best ot in college and heart of an offense. Orlando Pace neds a replacement.

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forrest: Is Thigpen the answer? No idea. But he defiently preformed well enough to allow them to use the #3 overall pick on something else. They *could* go Sanchez here, and probably would go Stafford if he fell, or could trade for Pilois boy Cassel, and even with the probable departure of their 31 running back, they have to go d. Though Dorsey helped vs. north to south running, the defense was so shockingly slow that they were torched on the edges. Curry is the best defensive player in the draft.

4. Seattle Seahawks: Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech: this guy could be a big faller if he dissappoints at the combine, but his #'s should speak for themselves. Not much to say, they need everything, hes a much better wr then anybody is running back in this years draft.

5. Cleveland Browns: Brian Orakpo, OLB, Texas: best pass rusher in the draft with the ability to contain a side of the los. This is a must for them.

6. Cincinatti Bengals: Eugene Monroe, LT, Virginia: no brainer. Though they have significant needs everywhere, oline is the most pressing.

7. Oakland Raiders: BJ Raji, DT, BC: I will go out on a limb and say Oakland does a smart move. They still need a wr, but outside of Crabtree, everybody is pretty close with Maclin at #1 of the remaining wrs and far from a sure thing to most eyes (though to to my own). Their d sucks. This is simply a must. Though I wouldnt be shocked AT ALL for Davis to trade up and snag Crabtree.

8. Jacksonville Jaguars: OT Michael Oher, Ole Miss: no brainer for them after a year in which they took a huge step backwards.

9. Green Bay Packers: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, OSU: They could go Brown here for a pass rush, but Jenkins is a stuf who could be a shut down corner when Harris or Woodson soon slow.

10. San Francisco 49ers: Everette Brown, DE, Florida State: Singletary will fall in love with this guy who will be a beast in as a 3-4 pass rusher. They would def. go Raji if he falls but I dont see it.

11. Buffalo Bills: Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State: they need a pass rush. Period. Pettigrew would be tempting but at #11 a definite reach.

12. Denver Broncos: Rey Maualuga, LB, USC: McDaniels never runs the ball when he had Maroney, Morris, Jordan, and everybody else healthy. No way he uses his 1st 1st round pick as a HC on a position he hardly ever uses. The teams d needs definite help due his versatility and football instincts, they need a natural to lead the team for years and theyve got one here.

13. Washington Redskins: Ebon Britton, OT, Arizona: they need a tackle badly.

14. New Orleans Saints: Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois: their hideous secondary gets an instant starter with Champ Bailey potential.

15. Houston Texans: Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forrest: another team that simply cant stop the pass. They have no other choice here.

16. San Diego Chargers: Chris Wells, RB, OSU: Flat out beast. He can play soft, but would be a deadly duo with Darren Sproles. Runs with power with incredible vision and burst for a man of a sized, very similar style to Adrian Peterson except more like a bull to Petersons horse. Like AD he has been injury prone in college.

17. New York Jets: Mark Sanchez, QB. USC: Guy could be a real star if properly coached. Hell have a decent offense as is, and this is a team that has needed a qb for a while.

18. Chicago Bears: Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri: Maclin and Hester would be a deadly-DEADLY-combo of a speed wide recievers (imagine a double reverse). Maclin is electrifying with good hands and reads, insane burst and excellent vision. Physically, he is miles ahead of Crabtree, but right now his overall game isnt even comparable. With good coaching, Maclin could be a pro bowler as a rookie.

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia: funny he goes here because he is a Cadillac clone in virtually everywhere, even down to the baller 1st names. Moreno is a beast with excellent vision and patience but still has home run speed and power. A real star. That said, he isnt as explosive as some make him out to be. He isnt the most exciting college player weve seen in the past decade, thats Reggie Bush. Moreno is a straight g.

20. Detroit: Warren Beatty, OT, Uconn: time to go oline.

21. Philadelphia Eagles: LeSean McCoy, RB, Pittsburg: straight up beast who can take over most of the running plays while they use Westbrook as a full time recieving back ala KFaulk, who come in and provide a spark on the ground as well.

22. Minnesota Vikings: Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State: this a team with no real major needs; maye this will put some fire under Jackson again.

23. New England Patriots: DJ Moore, CB, Vanderbilt: the Patriots already have the DROY in Mayo and probably most improved Safety in Brandon Meriweather to go with a great dline. Moore is a welcome replacement for Dhelta Oniel.

24. Atlanta Falcons: James Laurenatis, OLB, OSU: Team without any major needs picks a talented and proven player and leader.

25. Miami Dolphins: Williams Moore, Safety, Missouri: 1 they wont go wr, 2 Cushings has a too many flaws for Parcells and was caught juicing. Theyll go with secondary help.

26. Bmore Ravens: CB Darrius Butler, Uconn: he and Fab Wash could be the 2ndary of the future.

27. Indianapolis Colts: Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss: best available pick, and they could use the help. Steal.

28. Philadelphia Eagles: Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers: Beast. Could be a great possession guy with elusive speed to match Jacksons speed.

29. New York Giants: Brian Cushing, LB, USC: They could go wide reciever, but Cushing is much more of a sure thing than any remaining WR.

30. Tennesse Titans: Darrius Heyward Bey, WR, Maryland: Gage could be a great #2 man and possession reciever. With Young at QB, Johnson in the backfield, and HB at wr, you have possibly the fastest offensive ever.

31. Arizona Cardinals: DE Michael Jonson, Georgia Tech: will be furious McCoy is taken. Go with a safe and borderline steal pick here with Mike Johnson.

32. Pittsburg Steelers: G, Duke Robinson, Oklahoma: still need to replace Faneca.

My top rbs and wr's.:

RB:
1. Chris Wells
2. Knowshon Moreno
3. Lesean McCoy
4. Shonn Greene
5. Donald Brown

WR:
2. Jeremy Maclin
3. Kenny Britt
4. Darrius Heyward Bey
5. Hakeem Nicks

[StorminNorman]

Added my top 5 TE and OT.

Not a bad mock at all, actually. I doubt Maualuga goes top 5, and Maclin to Oakland would be a massive reach (though it is Oakland, so its actually kind of realistic). Hakeem Nicks will need a freakish combine to get into the 1st round, let alone top 20. I am also surprised you have Andre Smith ranked under Oher and Monroe. Heyward Bey also just screams combine freak. I can def. see him being drafted in the 1st round duie to his size and his 40, but Johnson was a far more polished wide reciever in terms of route running and hands. Bey is a track star who plays football, not the other way around like it was for wr's like him in past years whove become big stars (Calvin Jonson or Randy Moss). I also like that you dont have Percy Harvin the top 20.

Maualuga had a great Senior Bowl and I think he is a better OLB prospect than Orakpo in a 3-4 set. Macklin is a reach at 7, but you have to take into account the Al Davis effect.

Hakeem Nicks had a fantastic bowl game that helped his draft stock and I think his combine will have him compete for the 2nd or 3rd best WR in this draft position.

I did not compare Bey to Johnson as a polished wide receiver, but as being underutilized in college ball. Bey has amazing talent and I like his potential a lot.

Anyway, this is how I currently see it going.

1. Detroit: Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia: if I ran the show, theyd go left tackle. But they are the Lions, and theyll do what the Lions do, and draft a talent prsopect and make him into a bust because they throw him into a terrible situation when he isnt ready for anything.

Stafford without a doubt is the QB prospect more ready for the NFL. They need O-Line help, but Stafford has tools around him to be successful.

2. St. Louis Rams: Andre Smith, LT, Alabama: the best ot in college and heart of an offense. Orlando Pace neds a replacement.

We agree in idea, disagree on Smith.

4. Seattle Seahawks: Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech: this guy could be a big faller if he dissappoints at the combine, but his #'s should speak for themselves. Not much to say, they need everything, hes a much better wr then anybody is running back in this years draft.

Crabtree is a guy that can only go up at the combine. Crabtree is not going to fall past Seattle.

5. Cleveland Browns: Brian Orakpo, OLB, Texas: best pass rusher in the draft with the ability to contain a side of the los. This is a must for them.

6. Cincinatti Bengals: Eugene Monroe, LT, Virginia: no brainer. Though they have significant needs everywhere, oline is the most pressing.

Again, agree in principal, disagree on execution.

7. Oakland Raiders: BJ Raji, DT, BC: I will go out on a limb and say Oakland does a smart move. They still need a wr, but outside of Crabtree, everybody is pretty close with Maclin at #1 of the remaining wrs and far from a sure thing to most eyes (though to to my own). Their d sucks. This is simply a must. Though I wouldnt be shocked AT ALL for Davis to trade up and snag Crabtree.

This pick is far too smart for Oakland.

11. Buffalo Bills: Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State: they need a pass rush. Period. Pettigrew would be tempting but at #11 a definite reach.

Pettigrew is the best TE in this draft by a significant amount. He helps blocking and receiving. The Bills were 25th in offense, 13th in Pass Defense - this fills a bigger need.

A player like Paul Kurger will probably still be here in the second round.

12. Denver Broncos: Rey Maualuga, LB, USC: McDaniels never runs the ball when he had Maroney, Morris, Jordan, and everybody else healthy. No way he uses his 1st 1st round pick as a HC on a position he hardly ever uses. The teams d needs definite help due his versatility and football instincts, they need a natural to lead the team for years and theyve got one here.

The Patriots ranked 6th in rushing offense, not bad for a team that never runs the ball.

13. Washington Redskins: Ebon Britton, OT, Arizona: they need a tackle badly.

The Redskins may need a tackle but Britton is a textbook reach at 13. Britton may not be the fifth best tackle in the draft and he would never go off the board before Jason Smith of Baylor.

14. New Orleans Saints: Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois: their hideous secondary gets an instant starter with Champ Bailey potential.

15. Houston Texans: Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forrest: another team that simply cant stop the pass. They have no other choice here.

With the depth of CB in this draft I don't think Houston goes CB unless Dunta Robinson is no longer with the team.

16. San Diego Chargers: Chris Wells, RB, OSU: Flat out beast. He can play soft, but would be a deadly duo with Darren Sproles. Runs with power with incredible vision and burst for a man of a sized, very similar style to Adrian Peterson except more like a bull to Petersons horse. Like AD he has been injury prone in college.

:up:

17. New York Jets: Mark Sanchez, QB. USC: Guy could be a real star if properly coached. Hell have a decent offense as is, and this is a team that has needed a qb for a while.

I think Ryan is too smart to fall for the Sanchez trap. Sanchez has bust written all over him.

18. Chicago Bears: Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri: Maclin and Hester would be a deadly-DEADLY-combo of a speed wide recievers (imagine a double reverse). Maclin is electrifying with good hands and reads, insane burst and excellent vision. Physically, he is miles ahead of Crabtree, but right now his overall game isnt even comparable. With good coaching, Maclin could be a pro bowler as a rookie.

I think you have far more faith in Macklin than I do.

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia: funny he goes here because he is a Cadillac clone in virtually everywhere, even down to the baller 1st names. Moreno is a beast with excellent vision and patience but still has home run speed and power. A real star. That said, he isnt as explosive as some make him out to be. He isnt the most exciting college player weve seen in the past decade, thats Reggie Bush. Moreno is a straight g.

I think Tampa is the type of team that would look at a Shonn Greene or a Ringer in a later round, I think with Earnest Graham, Cadillac and Dunn Tampa has other needs in the first round.

20. Detroit: Warren Beatty, OT, Uconn: time to go oline.

Again, you have forgotten Jason Smith.

22. Minnesota Vikings: Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State: this a team with no real major needs; maye this will put some fire under Jackson again.

The Vikings have needs at CB, OT and C as well as QB. The difference is I don't think there is a QB here better than Tavaris Jackson. They should look at a Jake Delhomme, a Billy Volek or a Darrick Anderson here.

23. New England Patriots: DJ Moore, CB, Vanderbilt: the Patriots already have the DROY in Mayo and probably most improved Safety in Brandon Meriweather to go with a great dline. Moore is a welcome replacement for Dhelta Oniel.
I like this pick.

24. Atlanta Falcons: James Laurenatis, OLB, OSU: Team without any major needs picks a talented and proven player and leader.

Atlanta wouldn't pass up Pettigrew here, nor do I think they would go with Laurenatis over Williams Moore.

25. Miami Dolphins: Williams Moore, Safety, Missouri: 1 they wont go wr, 2 Cushings has a too many flaws for Parcells and was caught juicing. Theyll go with secondary help.

There is no way they go WR and I have to question Kiper's logic there. Cushings can play either OLB or DE in Miami's 3-4 scheme and Parcells is the same guy that picks LT so I don't think he will be scared by any past demons. Corner and DT are both bigger holes than safety.

27. Indianapolis Colts: Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss: best available pick, and they could use the help. Steal.

He would be an absolute steal here, but there is no way he slides past Miami either.

28. Philadelphia Eagles: Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers: Beast. Could be a great possession guy with elusive speed to match Jacksons speed.

Britt would be a great fit for Phili, but this is a reach here and having him gone before Bey is a bit confusing. Philadelphia would be better off looking at the Free Agency for a WR or holding off for a Mohammad Massoquoi in a later round.

29. New York Giants: Brian Cushing, LB, USC: They could go wide reciever, but Cushing is much more of a sure thing than any remaining WR.

Bey couldn't be passed up here.

30. Tennesse Titans: Darrius Heyward Bey, WR, Maryland: Gage could be a great #2 man and possession reciever. With Young at QB, Johnson in the backfield, and HB at wr, you have possibly the fastest offensive ever.

The only thing faster than DHB is Percy Harvin.

31. Arizona Cardinals: DE Michael Jonson, Georgia Tech: will be furious McCoy is taken. Go with a safe and borderline steal pick here with Mike Johnson.

I love Mike Johnson but I think he slides into a second round steal (Detroit)

[Kaleb]

Here are some vids of the "Top 5" WR prospects:

1. Michael Crabtree - 6-3, 214
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm9gAYutAwg

2. Jeremy Maclin - 6-1, 200
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Z5eMtxcXI

3. Percy Harvin - 5-11, 195
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt68j3UjyZI

4. Hakeem Nicks - 6-1, 210
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_aMQ2R7dYQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ikDsi-DJA

5. Darrius Heyward-Bey - 6-2, 206
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjaBWuo4zA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI-rEopKpSs

[Excel]

Replace Harvin with Kenny Britt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a98USWn8dG0

[Dr. Jive]

I think cornerback is simply a bigger need and I think this is a year where it would be more efficient to add another starting WR through the Free Agency instead of the draft. I think Sydney Rice has the potential to be a solid two receiver to Berrian. I think you can also find great quality in later rounds with receiver this year: Jarrett Dillard from Rice is a player who is a little small at 5'11 185 but I think compares well to a Jerricho Cotchery (6'0 205) who was selected in the 4th round.To the guy who asked, it wont be that hard for the Vikings to pass on Heyward Bey or especially Harvin. Berrien established himself as a real big play threat, you have a great tight end, and Sydney Rice is incredibly young with a huge upside.I agree that Sidney Rice, if healthy, could be a good #2 receiver next to Berrian. All I'm saying is that if a player like Harvin is available at 22, it would be tough to pass on him, using the Best Player Available method. It all depends on who is there at 22 though. I wouldn't mind a CB at all.

[NewYorkSpider]

I'm working on my mock draft. I'll post it later tonight.

[Excel]

Crabtree is a guy that can only go up at the combine. Crabtree is not going to fall past Seattle.

I dont know. If he runs a sub 4.55 40 while a lineman has a freakish day, it wont be an easy decision.

This pick is far too smart for Oakland.
Their picks havent been THAT bad, its been their hideous free agent signings that made them a joke. Russel had a pretty damn good season given the circumstances, all they need is a wide reciever. Meanwhile, McFadden and Bush look like a possible duo made in heaven for years. Unless Crabtree is there, I defiently think theyll go defense.

The Patriots ranked 6th in rushing offense, not bad for a team that never runs the ball.

That was due to Cassel not hitting Moss for tds every time. McDaniels with Cutler passing to Marshall, Royal, Stokley, and Schefter = no need for legit feature back.

I think Ryan is too smart to fall for the Sanchez trap. Sanchez has bust written all over him.

I dunno just yet. I can EASILY picture him being a wild, Rex Grossman esque qb who shows flashes of brilliance but mostly incompetance. However, I like the Jets coaches and players around him.

I think you have far more faith in Macklin than I do.

Depends on how he is used. Rookie wide recievers asked to do everything almost always struggle. But the rooks asked to do simple things (run posts, fades, slants, and deep routes basically) adjust pretty easily, just look at Jackson or Royal. Maclins role would be pretty simple: go deep or go short while Hester does the opposite.

I think Tampa is the type of team that would look at a Shonn Greene or a Ringer in a later round, I think with Earnest Graham, Cadillac and Dunn Tampa has other needs in the first round.

If Maclin is available at #19, theyll take him over Moreno (who would in turn land in Philadelphia- wouldnt that be nice). But, if Knowshon is there at 19 and Maclin isnt, I think hell be a Buccaneer.

Britt would be a great fit for Phili, but this is a reach here and having him gone before Bey is a bit confusing. Philadelphia would be better off looking at the Free Agency for a WR or holding off for a Mohammad Massoquoi in a later round.

While I think their best for the team would be sign Housh or trade for Chad Johnson, I am assuming neither happens and as of draft day, they need a wr. Briit goes over Heyward Bey because he's easily the more NFL of the 2. Maybe not as big of an upside, buthes got the better route running, hands, is 10x as physical, but just a little slower (Britt runs a 40 in the low 4.4.'s).

The only thing faster than DHB is Percy Harvin

In a 50m dash Heyward Bey would own him; Harvin is just quicke reaction time. At best Percy will be a bigtime role player doing a poor impression of Reggie somewhere.

[NewYorkSpider]

Here's my first mock draft this year. I'll probably edit my post later to say why said player will go to said team. I might even do round 2 later. I'm bored as hell.


1. Detroit Lions (0-16-0) - Matt Stafford, QB, Georgia
2. St. Louis Rams (2-14-0) - Eugene Monroe, OT, Virgina
3. Kansas City Chiefs (2-14-0) - Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
4. Seattle Seahawks (4-12-0) - Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
5. Cleveland Browns (4-12-0) - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
6. Cincinnati Bengals (4-11-1) - B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
7. Oakland Raiders (5-11-0) - Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
8. Jacksonville Jaguars (5-11-0) - Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
9. Green Bay Packers (6-10-0) - Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
10. San Francisco 49ers (7-9-0) - Everette Brown, OLB, Floridia State
11. Buffalo Bills (7-9-0) - Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
12. Denver Broncos (8-8-0) - Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
13. Washington Redskins (8-8-0) - Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
14. New Orleans Saints (8-8-0) - Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
15. Houston Texans (8-8-0) - Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
16. San Diego Chargers (8-8-0) - Rey Maualuga, LB, Southern California
17. New York Jets (9-7-0) - Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
18. Chicago Bears (9-7-0) - Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7-0) - Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
20. Detroit Lions (from DAL) - Brian Cushing, LB, Southern California
21. Philadelphia Eagles (9-6-1) - LeSean McCoy, RB, Pitt
22. Minnesota Vikings (10-6-0) - D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
23. New England Patriots - Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State
24. Atlanta Falcons (11-5-0) - Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
25. Miami Dolphins (11-5-0) - Larry English, DE, Northern Illinois
26. Baltimore Ravens (11-5-0) - James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
27. Indianapolis Colts (12-4-0) - Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
28. Philadelphia Eagles (from CAR) - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
29. New York Giants (12-4-0) - Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
30. Tennessee Titans (13-3) - Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
31. Arizona Cardinals (9-7-0) - Coye Francies, CB, San Jose State
32. Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4-0) - Alex Mack, C, California

[Excel]

Hot damn, no way Harvin goes top 20. Hell have to run a sub 4.3 to get in the top 32.

[Alex The Great]

Waaaaay to early....Should of made this thread a few days before the draft. Like last year, Bad Norman

[Matt]

It all depends for the Steelers. I fear Hines Ward may call it quits if he gets a second ring. He is already Canton bound, and a second ring means he could go out on top instead of with a whimper. If he retires (which I don't think'll happen. I think he wants to break 10,000 yards first)...the Steelers will need a big talent receiver. Even if it means trading a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a higher 1st. Santonio Holmes is good, but I don't think he'll ever be great and Sweed is turning out to be a total bust. They'll need a big talent WR with Hines gone.

[Excel]

Holmes is legit, but they need a big guy. I believe Sweed is big but word is he drops everything. Lean on Mendenhall and Parker for a year while Sweed gets his hands together.

[NewYorkSpider]

Hot damn, no way Harvin goes top 20. Hell have to run a sub 4.3 to get in the top 32.

We'll see what happens. The combine will tell a lot more.

Waaaaay to early....Should of made this thread a few days before the draft. Like last year, Bad Norman

No, it's fine making it now. You want us to discuss the draft 2 days before it happens?

It all depends for the Steelers. I fear Hines Ward may call it quits if he gets a second ring. He is already Canton bound, and a second ring means he could go out on top instead of with a whimper. If he retires (which I don't think'll happen. I think he wants to break 10,000 yards first)...the Steelers will need a big talent receiver. Even if it means trading a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a higher 1st. Santonio Holmes is good, but I don't think he'll ever be great and Sweed is turning out to be a total bust. They'll need a big talent WR with Hines gone.


The Steelers need to fill their offensive line needs before they get a WR.

[Excel]

Waaaaay to early....Should of made this thread a few days before the draft. Like last year, Bad Norman

Never too early to talk about the draft :o

[StorminNorman]

I agree that Sidney Rice, if healthy, could be a good #2 receiver next to Berrian. All I'm saying is that if a player like Harvin is available at 22, it would be tough to pass on him, using the Best Player Available method. It all depends on who is there at 22 though. I wouldn't mind a CB at all.

I still don't consider Harvin the best player available.

I dont know. If he runs a sub 4.55 40 while a lineman has a freakish day, it wont be an easy decision.

Seattle has no greater need than wide receiver.

Their picks havent been THAT bad, its been their hideous free agent signings that made them a joke. Russel had a pretty damn good season given the circumstances, all they need is a wide reciever. Meanwhile, McFadden and Bush look like a possible duo made in heaven for years. Unless Crabtree is there, I defiently think theyll go defense.

I never said that Oakland has BAD, its just different. Al Davis has a style - he looks for speed and skill and excitement. This is that pick for Oakland.

That was due to Cassel not hitting Moss for tds every time. McDaniels with Cutler passing to Marshall, Royal, Stokley, and Schefter = no need for legit feature back.

They were the 13th ranked run offense in 2008.

I dunno just yet. I can EASILY picture him being a wild, Rex Grossman esque qb who shows flashes of brilliance but mostly incompetance. However, I like the Jets coaches and players around him.

Again, though, Grossman was a product of a Florida system that produced failure after failure at Quarterback. Georgia, while having no stand out QB, has the second most NFL players currently and regularly produces stable professional product.

Depends on how he is used. Rookie wide recievers asked to do everything almost always struggle. But the rooks asked to do simple things (run posts, fades, slants, and deep routes basically) adjust pretty easily, just look at Jackson or Royal. Maclins role would be pretty simple: go deep or go short while Hester does the opposite.

Simple doesn't always translate to successful.

If Maclin is available at #19, theyll take him over Moreno (who would in turn land in Philadelphia- wouldnt that be nice). But, if Knowshon is there at 19 and Maclin isnt, I think hell be a Buccaneer.

Obviously I don't think Knowshon slips to 19. He will be the first back in this draft.

While I think their best for the team would be sign Housh or trade for Chad Johnson, I am assuming neither happens and as of draft day, they need a wr. Briit goes over Heyward Bey because he's easily the more NFL of the 2. Maybe not as big of an upside, buthes got the better route running, hands, is 10x as physical, but just a little slower (Britt runs a 40 in the low 4.4.'s).

Briit doesn't have near the upside but again, he is simply not worth the value at this position. Briit could slide to Philadelphia's second round pick.

In a 50m dash Heyward Bey would own him; Harvin is just quicke reaction time. At best Percy will be a bigtime role player doing a poor impression of Reggie somewhere.

I agree he will be a Reggie-type back, though I think Harvin may be a better player.

Here's my first mock draft this year. I'll probably edit my post later to say why said player will go to said team. I might even do round 2 later. I'm bored as hell.


1. Detroit Lions (0-16-0) - Matt Stafford, QB, Georgia
2. St. Louis Rams (2-14-0) - Eugene Monroe, OT, Virgina
3. Kansas City Chiefs (2-14-0) - Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest
4. Seattle Seahawks (4-12-0) - Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
5. Cleveland Browns (4-12-0) - Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
6. Cincinnati Bengals (4-11-1) - B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
7. Oakland Raiders (5-11-0) - Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
8. Jacksonville Jaguars (5-11-0) - Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
9. Green Bay Packers (6-10-0) - Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
10. San Francisco 49ers (7-9-0) - Everette Brown, OLB, Floridia State
11. Buffalo Bills (7-9-0) - Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
12. Washington Redskins (8-8-0) - Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
13. New Orleans Saints (8-8-0) - Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
14. Houston Texans (8-8-0) - Michael Oher, OT/, Mississippi
15. Denver Broncos (8-8-0) - Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
16. San Diego Chargers (8-8-0) - Rey Maualuga, LB, Southern California
17. New York Jets (9-7-0) - Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
18. Chicago Bears (9-7-0) - Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7-0) - Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
20. Detroit Lions (from DAL) - Brian Cushing, LB, Southern California
21. Philadelphia Eagles (9-6-1) - LeSean McCoy, RB, Pitt
22. Minnesota Vikings (10-6-0) - D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
23. New England Patriots - Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State
24. Atlanta Falcons (11-5-0) - Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
25. Miami Dolphins (11-5-0) - Larry English, DE, Northern Illinois
26. Baltimore Ravens (11-5-0) - James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
27. Indianapolis Colts (12-4-0) - Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
28. Philadelphia Eagles (from CAR) - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
29. New York Giants (12-4-0) - Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
30. Tennessee Titans (13-3) - Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
31. Arizona Cardinals (9-7-0) - Coye Francies, CB, San Jose State
32. Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4-0) - Alex Mack, C, California

There is a lot to like in this draft, I don't see Detroit going OLB with Aaron Maybin still on the board but overall its far better than most I have seen :up:

It all depends for the Steelers. I fear Hines Ward may call it quits if he gets a second ring. He is already Canton bound, and a second ring means he could go out on top instead of with a whimper. If he retires (which I don't think'll happen. I think he wants to break 10,000 yards first)...the Steelers will need a big talent receiver. Even if it means trading a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a higher 1st. Santonio Holmes is good, but I don't think he'll ever be great and Sweed is turning out to be a total bust. They'll need a big talent WR with Hines gone.

Its hard to see Hines leaving football with two good legs, the guy is just a competitor.

With the depth of this draft I don't think Pittsburgh needs to trade up to a high 1st, there is talent late in the first round that is better than a lot we have seen in last drafts.

[Matt]

Its hard to see Hines leaving football with two good legs, the guy is just a competitor.

With the depth of this draft I don't think Pittsburgh needs to trade up to a high 1st, there is talent late in the first round that is better than a lot we have seen in last drafts.

Oh, I agree. Right now they don't. I'm simply saying if Hines were to leave (which I too doubt will happen, watch the guy, after every play he is smiling. Hines has too much fun on the field to quit, especially before 10,000), they will have to.

[NewYorkSpider]

There is a lot to like in this draft, I don't see Detroit going OLB with Aaron Maybin still on the board but overall its far better than most I have seen :up:


Thanks. I've seen Percy Harvin going way down to the Titans in a lot of mock drafts, but I think if Favre returns, they make take him there. If Favre retires, I could see them going defense and taking Brian Cushing from USC. Then they may add a QB in one of the later rounds. (Rhett Bomar?)

[StorminNorman]

I really like Rhett Bomar playing at New York.

[LegendaryCaleb]

my team has the first pick...and we all know they are gonna draft popularity talent over needed talent...is there anyone else that cringes at this as well?

[StorminNorman]

I don't know if thats the case though, Detroit has made some brilliant, un-Lions like hires with their coaching staff.

[NewYorkSpider]

my team has the first pick...and we all know they are gonna draft popularity talent over needed talent...is there anyone else that cringes at this as well?

Plus, Martin Mayhew is the new GM. He already made a good move by getting rid of Roy Williams for draft picks. The Lions could have an Atlanta Falcons/Miami Dolphins/Baltimore Ravens type year next season if they make the right moves

[Immortalfire]

I don't know if thats the case though, Detroit has made some brilliant, un-Lions like hires with their coaching staff.

It's interesting what an 0-16 year can do.

[Excel]

Seattle has no greater need than wide receiver.

A poor Crabtree combine + Smith or Oher still avail = tough decision.

I never said that Oakland has BAD, its just different. Al Davis has a style - he looks for speed and skill and excitement. This is that pick for Oakland.

The only reason they took McFadden over Dorsey was because he is there. I think they go Raji this time unless Crabtree somehow falls to them.


Again, though, Grossman was a product of a Florida system that produced failure after failure at Quarterback. Georgia, while having no stand out QB, has the second most NFL players currently and regularly produces stable professional product.

I was refering to Mark Sanchez with the Grossman comparison.

Obviously I don't think Knowshon slips to 19. He will be the first back in this draft.

The combine will determine that. If wells and Moreno run the 40s they are expected to-sub 4.4 and over 4.5 respectivley-Wells will be #1 back taken.

Briit doesn't have near the upside but again, he is simply not worth the value at this position. Briit could slide to Philadelphia's second round pick.

Yes, but Britt is a much better match for them. Bey would be just another speedster while Britt is the most physical wide reciever to comeout in years. Hed play perfectly off Jacksons speed with Curtis in the slow.

I agree he will be a Reggie-type back, though I think Harvin may be a better player.

Depends where he goes. Bush is on a team that cannot get into space to save their lives (though he regained his big play form this season when he was healthy)...I wonder if Houston is seeing what Steve Slaton is doing and wondering just how Bush would have done. Not saying they regret their #1 pick (:hehe:) but Slaton is a poor mans Bush in just about every aspect-worse speed, quickness, agility, power, vision, moves, acceleration-yet he was fantastic as a rookie because of how good a job his oline did getting into the open field where he make men miss/burn em.

[StorminNorman]

A poor Crabtree combine + Smith or Oher still avail = tough decision.

A tougher decision, but again mark my words - Seattle will not pass on Crabtree.

The only reason they took McFadden over Dorsey was because he is there. I think they go Raji this time unless Crabtree somehow falls to them.

Except that Al Davis drafting excitement over talent is not something that happened last year. This is a long long tradition of his.

I was refering to Mark Sanchez with the Grossman comparison.

Ah, well I don't think he will have Grossman's success.

The combine will determine that. If wells and Moreno run the 40s they are expected to-sub 4.4 and over 4.5 respectivley-Wells will be #1 back taken.

Are you saying Wells will run a sub 4.4 and Moreno over 4.5? Really? Moreno typically about a 4.45 40 runner.

Yes, but Britt is a much better match for them. Bey would be just another speedster while Britt is the most physical wide reciever to comeout in years. Hed play perfectly off Jacksons speed with Curtis in the slow.

I'm not arguing that Britt is not a better fit for Philadelphia as much as I am arguing that drafting him late first round is a major reach. He is a second round guy.

[cyborg ninja 14]

I still like the Denver section of Norman's draft:up:

[Excel]

Are you saying Wells will run a sub 4.4 and Moreno over 4.5? Really? Moreno typically about a 4.45 40 runner.

Morenos expected by scouts to do 4.52. He isnt all that fast which you can tell from his film-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue6lflyI6wk

Shons got move and good speed, but he isnt a real "burner". Any secondary man should be able to catch Shon at full speed. Check 1:18 of the vid.

Wells isnt a burner either and has less of a burst than Moreno, but at full speed is noticably faster. Its those huge strides he takes. Wells also has a freakish cut back ability very similar to that of Peterson, Lynch, Gore, Maroney, ect. and all the other cut back runners.

Wells is supposably 4.4 and aiming for high 4.3's much like Peterson pulled off. If I had to pick Id take Wells, but whoever does better depends on where they go.

[StorminNorman]

:up:

[Double Down]

Arizona won't take a CB in the first round. Interior offensive line, running back and front seven on defense are bigger priorities.

[NewYorkSpider]

Arizona allowed 36 TD's through the air. They need to draft a top CB. If they had a higher draft pick, then running back or offensive line would be a perfect choice. But as long as Warner and Fitzgerald are there to put up 30 points a game, then defense should be priority with most of the good offensive tackle and running backs off the board. That's just my opinion though. I think CB or DE could be chosen here.

[Immortalfire]

Todd McShay listed Knowshon as his #1 running back. Represent :up:

[Dr. Evil]

Kansas City is very interesting at number 3. If Stafford isn't drafted by the Lions, could they take him? I think it depends on how Pioli and the new head coach feel about Tyler Thigpen.

[Excel]

Thigpen did pretty damn well. The Chiefs have a ton of needs, drafting a QB would be pointless, even if it is Stafford imo., because Thigpen proved he can serviceable at the very least. They have to take Curry, their run d to the outside was horrendous...they gace up a 80 yarder touchdown to LENDALE WHITE :dry:

Rumor is Crabtree may headed to St. Louis.

More likely, the Rams at No. 2 will have the first realistic shot at Crabtree. Their college scouts are wisely pushing for them to select Crabtree over an offensive tackle. Pair Crabtree with second-year speedster Donnie Avery (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8810/;_ylt=AqktPGreM4v3PsrYYhZXvLI.ubYF), give him the chance to learn under future Hall of Famer Torry Holt (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4654/;_ylt=ArDBuJ9Yu5XETEgMr3BnaoQ.ubYF) and allow him to help rejuvenate Marc Bulger (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5197/;_ylt=AocqRerjb7FYvmaQEiDivts.ubYF).

Thatd be a pretty dumb move; he wont have time to get open in the 1.5 seconds their qb will have before he is sacked.

[StorminNorman]

Morenos expected by scouts to do 4.52. He isnt all that fast which you can tell from his film-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue6lflyI6wk



I have seen scouts project Moreno at 4.45.

Shons got move and good speed, but he isnt a real "burner". Any secondary man should be able to catch Shon at full speed. Check 1:18 of the vid.

No, Shon's not a burner but he isn't slow either. He outran LSU's entire defense this year (a defense known for talent).

Wells is supposably 4.4 and aiming for high 4.3's much like Peterson pulled off. If I had to pick Id take Wells, but whoever does better depends on where they go.

I would be shocked to see Wells run a sub 4.4 40, he's just not that fast.

[StorminNorman]

Kansas City is very interesting at number 3. If Stafford isn't drafted by the Lions, could they take him? I think it depends on how Pioli and the new head coach feel about Tyler Thigpen.

I could see Stafford being rather tempting should he is still on the board, but I think Thigpen was too promising and their other needs to great to pass up on a player like Curry.

Thigpen did pretty damn well. The Chiefs have a ton of needs, drafting a QB would be pointless, even if it is Stafford imo., because Thigpen proved he can serviceable at the very least. They have to take Curry, their run d to the outside was horrendous...they gace up a 80 yarder touchdown to LENDALE WHITE :dry:

Rumor is Crabtree may headed to St. Louis.



Thatd be a pretty dumb move; he wont have time to get open in the 1.5 seconds their qb will have before he is sacked.

I could see the Rams thoughts here, it is a good draft for tackles and Crabtree could have Fitzgerald like repercussions. I think rumors like this benefit Detroit because Seattle NEEDS Crabtree and Detroit could still get Stafford at 4.

[StorminNorman]

Todd McShay listed Knowshon as his #1 running back. Represent :up:

But he has Sanchez over Stafford :huh:

[Immortalfire]

But he has Sanchez over Stafford :huh:

For real..wtf :huh:

[Excel]

Everybody knows espn's guys are idiots. I dont know why they are even relevant.

I have seen scouts project Moreno at 4.45.

The word is he ran a 4.52 at camp. With training he should get under 4.5 I would expect, but not by much.

No, Shon's not a burner but he isn't slow either. He outran LSU's entire defense this year (a defense known for talent).

Of course he isn't slow, he isnt slow at all. His lateral movement is for the most part much better than Wells outside of the straight up cut back. Moreno just isnt that fast either. His speed is pretty average for an NFL running back.

I would be shocked to see Wells run a sub 4.4 40, he's just not that fast.

He is a lot faster than he looks. He has deceptive flat speed due to his running style, most wr's have this-they take big, long strides that allow to cover ground faster, but they dont look like they are moving that fast because their legs really arent. The only way you can see how fast they are is to guage them compared to others:

I personally would think that under 4.4 is a definite stretch for him because he simply doesnt get up to full speed very quickly, even if at full speed is really moving, but that is what most scouts seem to think he is going to run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lylP9aeFc7E&feature=related

At 1:07 you can see his flat speed in pads even if he does get tripped up at the very end...there is no doubt he faster than Moreno by a decent bit at full speed. The 40 times should just be kinda close because Moreno gets up to full speed much faster. For another glimpse of his speed, check 2:14 too.

[Dr. Evil]

Todd McShay needs to keep his priorities straight, because back in 2007 he did both NFL Draft and College Football Recruiting. Don't know if he still does both.

[RAMORE]

Hot damn, no way Harvin goes top 20. Hell have to run a sub 4.3 to get in the top 32.

WHY? His stock could go up the most at the combine. He's hands down the biggest game changing WR in the draft and the only we he doesn't go top 20 is that he's been hurt so there is a question of durability. However I would like to mention he was doubling as the leading rusher for the gators at RB and most of his dings came from that.

[Excel]

Florida wide recievers have a horrible reputation, and he wasnt even a true wide reciever. And he sure as hell wont drafted as a running back. He'll be taken to a super pass happy team...actually, Denver would be a GREAT GREAT GREAT team for him.

Only way i see him in 1st round is if he goes to the Bronco's. Everybody else has higher priorities, hell even Denver does, hes just a good match. Harvin in Denver could be a match made in heaven, but anywhere else I dont see it. Unless Tennessee is REALLY desperate and Heyward Bey and Kenny Britt are off the board.

[RAMORE]

I get this^ I just don't agree. I know he wont be drafted as a RB I sort of seem him as a westbrook type player except westbrook RB first WR second and Percy would be the flip of that.

I saw one draft with Tampa taking him I would be excited about that we need help and he'll be the best WR available if he's still on the board then. Of course then next year we could take Tebow and Reunite them:D

[ComicChick]

so I see Carolina doesn't have any first round picks. Do we have any chance(s) to draft some talent that will help us out a lot?

[StorminNorman]

so I see Carolina doesn't have any first round picks. Do we have any chance(s) to draft some talent that will help us out a lot?

There is plenty of talent in this draft. For Carolina it really depends on how they handle their current talent before you can point out definite targets for drafting. They have a lot of potential free agents they need to address, and then, of course, they have to decide on Jake Delhomme.

[Double Down]

There is plenty of talent in this draft. For Carolina it really depends on how they handle their current talent before you can point out definite targets for drafting. They have a lot of potential free agents they need to address, and then, of course, they have to decide on Jake Delhomme.

Delhomme will be back. There really is no one to replace him. But his deal will be re-negotiated.

[Excel]

With Williams and Stewart both good to go, now would be an ideal time to find a new QB if your the Carolina Panthers.

[ComicChick]

i've been wanting Carolina to get another QB the past 2 seasons :(

i kinda wanted them to pick Brady Quinn when he dropped so far in the draft that season. Even Keyshawn seemed like he liked the idea but oh well.

i like Delhomme, but he chokes soo much. and the interceptions :down:

[NewYorkSpider]

Florida wide recievers have a horrible reputation, and he wasnt even a true wide reciever. And he sure as hell wont drafted as a running back. He'll be taken to a super pass happy team...actually, Denver would be a GREAT GREAT GREAT team for him.

Only way i see him in 1st round is if he goes to the Bronco's. Everybody else has higher priorities, hell even Denver does, hes just a good match. Harvin in Denver could be a match made in heaven, but anywhere else I dont see it. Unless Tennessee is REALLY desperate and Heyward Bey and Kenny Britt are off the board.

I think if Favre comes back, then they draft Harvin. If he retires, then they can go defense.


i've been wanting Carolina to get another QB the past 2 seasons :(

i kinda wanted them to pick Brady Quinn when he dropped so far in the draft that season. Even Keyshawn seemed like he liked the idea but oh well.

i like Delhomme, but he chokes soo much. and the interceptions :down:

I wanted Quinn too, but he was off the board before Carolina had a chance to pick him. It really didn't matter to me since we got Jon Beason. Carolina has A LOT of work to do this off-season.

edit: Actually he was still on the board. I forgot we had a trade with the Jets.

[Excel]

I think if Favre comes back, then they draft Harvin. If he retires, then they can go defense.

You think Harvin could go to the Jets? He'd do pretty much what Leon Washington does.

[NewYorkSpider]

You think Harvin could go to the Jets? He'd do pretty much what Leon Washington does.

Go to the Pro Bowl? :huh: If Favre returns, he needs another WR to keep him happy. At this point I see Harvin going to the Jets and then they'll draft a QB in the later rounds. If Favre retires, then Rex Ryan will work on the defense.

[Excel]

Go to the Pro Bowl? :huh:

I was refering to his role on the team. Washington has been an excellent change of pace back and special teams stud...I dunno where Harvin would fit in as he isnt a natural wide reciever :cwink:

[NewYorkSpider]

I was refering to his role on the team. Washington has been an excellent change of pace back and special teams stud...I dunno where Harvin would fit in as he isnt a natural wide reciever :cwink:

I knew what you meant. Harvin may not be a big physical reciever, but he could be a down the field threat. We all know how Favre loves to throw down field. This decision of course is pending with Favre's retirement, the combine, trades and free agency.

[Excel]

Harvin is arguably the least NFL ready of all the big Florida wide recievers, who have all been huge busts. Harvin would be ideal as a recieving running back ala Kevin Faulk.

[NewYorkSpider]

Harvin is arguably the least NFL ready of all the big Florida wide recievers, who have all been huge busts. Harvin would be ideal as a recieving running back ala Kevin Faulk.

If the draft started today, that's where I would have him. We obviously have a difference in opinion on him. Let's talk about some other stuff. Could you see Buffalo trading down? I doubt anyone between them and Tampa would want a TE. It would be a perfect situation for Tampa to trade up to get Moreno.

[StorminNorman]

i've been wanting Carolina to get another QB the past 2 seasons :(

i kinda wanted them to pick Brady Quinn when he dropped so far in the draft that season. Even Keyshawn seemed like he liked the idea but oh well.

i like Delhomme, but he chokes soo much. and the interceptions :down:

Josh Freeman may be a nice pick in the second round then. He is a huge 6'6 QB who is strong and impressive. Allow Jake to play for a season or two more while Josh develops and you have the future of Carolina.

[Double Down]

The Browns really, really want to trade down. They desperately need draft picks.

[RAMORE]

Harvin is arguably the least NFL ready of all the big Florida wide recievers, who have all been huge busts. Harvin would be ideal as a recieving running back ala Kevin Faulk.

This is what i've been thinking he has greatness in him maybe just not in a conventional way.

i've been wanting Carolina to get another QB the past 2 seasons :(

i kinda wanted them to pick Brady Quinn when he dropped so far in the draft that season. Even Keyshawn seemed like he liked the idea but oh well.

i like Delhomme, but he chokes soo much. and the interceptions :down:


Delhomme is awful if he'll restructure I would keep him another year but you have to draft QB this year don't youl.

[ComicChick]

Josh Freeman may be a nice pick in the second round then. He is a huge 6'6 QB who is strong and impressive. Allow Jake to play for a season or two more while Josh develops and you have the future of Carolina.

i would like this pick. as long as he cuts down on his interceptions (44 career passing tds and 34 int). i do like how he ran for 14 td's this season. that could help expand the offense more. i think delhomme is kinda slow.

ideally i wanted cassell to leave the pats and panthers sign him but i dont see that happening lol

[StorminNorman]

i would like this pick. as long as he cuts down on his interceptions (44 career passing tds and 34 int). i do like how he ran for 14 td's this season. that could help expand the offense more. i think delhomme is kinda slow.

ideally i wanted cassell to leave the pats and panthers sign him but i dont see that happening lol

Either Cassel or Tom Brady will be on the open market after next season. Delhomme is most likely the best option for Carolina in 2009 (though Chris Simms or Billy Volek may be worth looking at)

[RAMORE]

I agree pats can't keep both. As long as Brady finds his legs I see him staying.

[Excel]

Brady isnt going anywhere, he is already dropping back and passing. He will be ready to play in 8 months. My guess we trade Cassel on draft day.

[LegendaryCaleb]

I want the Lions to get Cassel....but im sure thats prolly an impossibility :(

[Excel]

I want the Lions to get Cassel

No you dont (if your a Lions fan).

[LegendaryCaleb]

why would i not be a lions fan for wanting that?

[Caped Crusader]

Giants have a lot of picks this year including two 2nd round picks, hopefully they'll have another good draft.

I cant see them picking a WR in the 1st and I want no part of Cushing.

I have my eyes set on Clint Sintim

[ComicChick]

i want Cassel to go to Carolina, but i don't know who'd they'd be willing to trade or give up other than draft picks. Cassel's contract is coming up anyways isnt it?

we need a more mobile, less interception throwing quarterback so we can open up our offense more

[StorminNorman]

i want Cassel to go to Carolina, but i don't know who'd they'd be willing to trade or give up other than draft picks. Cassel's contract is coming up anyways isnt it?

we need a more mobile, less interception throwing quarterback so we can open up our offense more

The Patriots have the cap space to franchise Cassel for this year. If the Patriots have any doubt, ANY DOUBT, about Tom Brady starting Week 1 then I think Cassel stays with the Patriots. Now it sounds like Tom is progressing well which may mean New England won't franchise him and he could be available.

[StorminNorman]

Giants have a lot of picks this year including two 2nd round picks, hopefully they'll have another good draft.

I cant see them picking a WR in the 1st and I want no part of Cushing.

I have my eyes set on Clint Sintim

The Giants biggest need is wide receiver - they need a number one. The Giants were not the Giants after Plaxico went down.

I love Sintim in New York, I think the Giants should consider trading up in the second to get him - but OLB is not a need like the WR position is.

why would i not be a lions fan for wanting that?

I think he is saying that Lions fans shouldn't want Cassel going to Detroit and I think he is right. The Lions need a QB that can utilize Calvin Johnson's expoisive big play ability and Cassel is not it. Cassel is an accurate, mobile passer - but he doesn't come with a cannon. Matt Stafford does.

With the Rams looking to grab Crabtree, I think Seattle will be interested in trading up to land the WR. If Detroit can get their second round pick and trade firsts, I think they should take the deal. What you could have is a Detroit draft like this:

1-4 Stafford
1-20 OT
2-1 Alex Mack
2-4 Michael Johnson
3-1 CB

[Dr. Evil]

So, which network will you be watching for the draft?

ESPN or NFL Network

[Caped Crusader]

The Giants biggest need is wide receiver - they need a number one. The Giants were not the Giants after Plaxico went down.

I love Sintim in New York, I think the Giants should consider trading up in the second to get him - but OLB is not a need like the WR position is.



I think he is saying that Lions fans shouldn't want Cassel going to Detroit and I think he is right. The Lions need a QB that can utilize Calvin Johnson's expoisive big play ability and Cassel is not it. Cassel is an accurate, mobile passer - but he doesn't come with a cannon. Matt Stafford does.

With the Rams looking to grab Crabtree, I think Seattle will be interested in trading up to land the WR. If Detroit can get their second round pick and trade firsts, I think they should take the deal. What you could have is a Detroit draft like this:

1-4 Stafford
1-20 OT
2-1 Alex Mack
2-4 Michael Johnson
3-1 CB

Either Plax is coming back, or they make a trade for a WR OR take a WR in the 2nd round. I really cant see them taking one in the 1st, i've been wrong before. Theres a guy who I havent given up on yet, Mario Manningham, hopefully he gets better and learns the playbook more, the kid has a load of talent.

[Double Down]

So, which network will you be watching for the draft?

ESPN or NFL Network

I flip back and forth.

[Excel]

why would i not be a lions fan for wanting that?

Cassel couldnt hit Moss deep even when Moss was WIDE open (i mean nobody within 5 yards). Itd be totally airmailed and be way over Moss's head or hideously underthrown to the point where Moss would have to beliterally stopped. There are some examples of it online...

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80acd836

@ 1:32 Notice how underthrown it is. We say atleast a dozn of these this season.

Or, he would completely over throw:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b9538d

@45 seconds. Thats not even that deep of a pass and look at how open Moss is...with Brady that is an easy touchdown.

He has the arm, but not the timing. This was the only deep bomb they connected on all year

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b602cc

Given that the Lions passing game is essentially throwing bombs to Johnson (when they arent being sacked or intercepted), they cant have a qb who cant throw it deep. Theyd be much better off with Culpepper than Cassel. Cassel is an IDEAL fit for a place like San Fran.

[Excel]

Either Plax is coming back, or they make a trade for a WR OR take a WR in the 2nd round. I really cant see them taking one in the 1st, i've been wrong before. Theres a guy who I havent given up on yet, Mario Manningham, hopefully he gets better and learns the playbook more, the kid has a load of talent.

Manningham was imo the best wr in the draft last season. He had a terrible combine (though an excellent pro day) which made him drop from mid 1st round status down to the 3rd round, but he displayed excellent reads and game speed at Michigan as well fantastic hands in traffic. He is a bit of primadonna, but if Burress is gone youll need some swagger.

[Caped Crusader]

We have a good group of WR's but Eli needs a big target not gonna lie, Giants will get someone.

[StorminNorman]

Heyward-Bey could be that target at 6'3 and track star fast.

If the Giants pick up another WR, obviously their needs will shift - but at this point they need to look WR in the first.

[NewYorkSpider]

Did anyone catch the college football All-Star challenge today? I saw a little bit of it.

[Excel]

If Jaconbs and Ward leave, they will need a running back.

[StorminNorman]

As soon as I saw the QB's were the likes of Chase Daniels and Graham Harrell I didn't bother to try to care.

[StorminNorman]

If Jaconbs and Ward leave, they will need a running back.

Yes, but I don't think there would be a RB on the board worthy of a first round pick. I think one of them stays and the other can be replaced with a second or third round pick.

[NewYorkSpider]

WR Derrick Williams made his challenge look easy. I think he could be a steal in the late second/early third round.

[redfirebird2008]

Thigpen did pretty damn well. The Chiefs have a ton of needs, drafting a QB would be pointless, even if it is Stafford imo., because Thigpen proved he can serviceable at the very least. They have to take Curry, their run d to the outside was horrendous...they gace up a 80 yarder touchdown to LENDALE WHITE :dry:

Rumor is Crabtree may headed to St. Louis.



Thatd be a pretty dumb move; he wont have time to get open in the 1.5 seconds their qb will have before he is sacked.

You apparently haven't seen Crabtree run the jailbreak screen. The guy has insane quickness for a big receiver. He's got the quicks of someone much smaller. And actually I feel we under-utilized him at Tech. We used him almost entirely in the underneath game instead of going deep to him. I think he has the ability to torch defenses going deep but his quickness makes it really tough to not use him in the underneath game.

[Caped Crusader]

Jacobs is staying.. plus we have Bradshaw & Ware..

Not many people know about Ware.. yet :)

[StorminNorman]

Danny Ware?

[Caped Crusader]

Danny Ware?

Yes Danny Ware. The kid big & fast, the Falcons & Giants were very close on a deal for Deangelo Hall last season but when the Falcons wanted Ware, Giants said no and they also said no to a few other trades with teams trying to include him.

[Dr. Evil]

Jacobs is staying.. plus we have Bradshaw & Ware..

Not many people know about Ware.. yet :)

So Ward is going to be gone?

[Caped Crusader]

So Ward is going to be gone?

Most likely, he wants to start. Cant blame him

[Excel]

Uhhhh....Crabtree will attend combine, wont run the 40.

Michael Crabtree reportedly does not plan to run the forty-yard dash at the NFL Combine.
The biggest unknown about Crabtree is his straight-line speed, so backing out of the forty on a level playing field raises question marks. It also indicates that Crabtree hasn't been timing well during his pre-draft preparation. Crabtree could always change his mind at the last minute like Calvin Johnson two years ago, but for now he only plans to run at the Texas Tech Pro Day

[Dark Donnie]

Even if he doesn't run, I doubt that would affect his draft position much.

[Excel]

Nor do I, infact it isnt all that uncommon, but I dont really get why he is even going then. His vert wont be that great either.

[Immortalfire]

Matthew Stafford has hired Tom Condon as his agent, the same guy that represents Matt Ryan, LaDainian Tomlinson and Peyton Manning.

[Excel]

Rumblings continue to grow louder and louder that Detroit will PASS on Stafford...

[NewYorkSpider]

So they're gonna pass on Stafford and go with an OT?

[Excel]

No idea...there are just rumors that they dont think Stafford or Sanchez will be anything special.

[NewYorkSpider]

I think they would be foolish to pass on Stafford. Of course I say that and he ends up being a bust. Sanchez IMO won't be anything special. I think Josh Freeman would be a better selection.

[StorminNorman]

Rumblings continue to grow louder and louder that Detroit will PASS on Stafford...

Theres a long time till the combine. I am still hoping they move down to 4 for Seattle's first and second round pick. I think Stafford will set himself way apart from Sanchez and blow everyone away in the interview process.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Rumblings continue to grow louder and louder that Detroit will PASS on Stafford...

hopefully those rumors are true. As a Lions fan (*hangs head in shame*) i can tell you they dont have the type of team that would be productive for a young QB to come in to like Flacco or Ryan did last year. The team is so bad they cant afford to have a 1st pick QB come in and sit the bench to learn for a year. but if he starts, their O-line is so bad he'll be running for his life every play. That's where young QB's pick up bad habits and you wind up with the Alex Smith's and Joey Harrington's.

My hope is that the Lions trade out of the spot and pick up more picks. This team is a disaster. Outside of Megatron, Kevin Smith, and Ernie Sims everyone needs to go, well and maybe Gosder Cherilus who could still turn out to be something. They need quantity of picks at this point. I know they have 5 in the 1st 3 rounds thanks to our sand-bagging of the Cowboys on the Roy Williams deal, but that's still not enough b/c we have so many damn holes. Would love to see them deal down a few spots pick up some more picks, and then pick up the top impact defensive player on the board and then come back at 20 and grab Mauluaga as well who I

Especially given Jim Schwartz's preference for a "punch you in the gut "defense, I cant see him coming into this team and burning a 1st pick on a QB. it's just not his M.O.. He came from a team that was led to the best record in the league by Kerry Collins for cripes sake.

I could possibly see them going with Andre Smith the OT from Alabama at #1, but he's got some character question marks surrounding him, and some people like Mike Mayock on NFL Network dont even have him ranked as the best OT, much less the #1 player overall. Looking forward to watching some of these guys at the scouting combine in the next couple weeks.

Theres a long time till the combine. I am still hoping they move down to 4 for Seattle's first and second round pick. I think Stafford will set himself way apart from Sanchez and blow everyone away in the interview process.

According to the draft valuation chart, they'd want more than just an extra 2nd rounder to move down to 4.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Although I dont think Seatlle believes that any of the 3 teams ahead of them in the draft are going to take Crabtree so I'm not sure they even have the incentive to move up. Unless they're worried about St. Louis trading out of their spot to a team like the Giants or Bears who need a WR.

[Excel]

hopefully those rumors are true. As a Lions fan (*hangs head in shame*) i can tell you they dont have the type of team that would be productive for a young QB to come in to like Flacco or Ryan did last year. The team is so bad they cant afford to have a 1st pick QB come in and sit the bench to learn for a year. but if he starts, their O-line is so bad he'll be running for his life every play. That's where young QB's pick up bad habits and you wind up with the Alex Smith's and Joey Harrington's.

Thank you, that is what I have been saying all along. They need to go OT with Andre Smith. Culpepper was under constant pressure; with more throwing time thanks to Smith and a preseasons worth of learning the plays, I think he'd be an alright qb while you develop Kevin Smith. If they can become a power rushing team around Kevin Smith and Kevin Jones, thatll take huge pressure off whoever the qb is, and that will start with drafting an olineman.

The Stafford to Ryan comparison is very similar to the McFadden to Peterson one this year. Physically theres not a big difference, but the situations are. Stafford would be a monumental bust if he were their starter next season, almost no doubt about it. They are better off going otackle and LB and a few good free agent moves and they could be ok with Culpepper at the helm. Ok as in 3-5 wins, but next year you an have a line ready and then draft your qb and try to make your push.

[Raiden]

I think they would be foolish to pass on Stafford. Of course I say that and he ends up being a bust. Sanchez IMO won't be anything special. I think Josh Freeman would be a better selection.

I think Lions should pass on both Stafford and Sanchez this year. Address other deficiencies like OL, defense, etc., and go for that QB next year. Next year's draft will be loaded with good QBs, and they will be in a better position to have their new QB succeed if they surround him with talents, which they won't be able to this year.

[Mastodon123]

I think it would be smart move if they traded some draft picks, maybe even their 1st round pick to get Cassel from the Patriots. If they get Cassel they could just draft defensive players this year and next year.

[Romero's Stache]

Go Steelers! Draft Center!

[NewYorkSpider]

I think Lions should pass on both Stafford and Sanchez this year. Address other deficiencies like OL, defense, etc., and go for that QB next year. Next year's draft will be loaded with good QBs, and they will be in a better position to have their new QB succeed if they surround him with talents, which they won't be able to this year.

They need a leader for the franchise ASAP. The Falcons and Ravens both had rookie head coaches and rookie QB's. Look where that got them. With Jim Schwartz coming in as head coach, I think it's important that they get to work on rebuilding the franchise with Stafford.

[StorminNorman]

hopefully those rumors are true. As a Lions fan (*hangs head in shame*) i can tell you they dont have the type of team that would be productive for a young QB to come in to like Flacco or Ryan did last year. The team is so bad they cant afford to have a 1st pick QB come in and sit the bench to learn for a year. but if he starts, their O-line is so bad he'll be running for his life every play. That's where young QB's pick up bad habits and you wind up with the Alex Smith's and Joey Harrington's.

My hope is that the Lions trade out of the spot and pick up more picks. This team is a disaster. Outside of Megatron, Kevin Smith, and Ernie Sims everyone needs to go, well and maybe Gosder Cherilus who could still turn out to be something. They need quantity of picks at this point. I know they have 5 in the 1st 3 rounds thanks to our sand-bagging of the Cowboys on the Roy Williams deal, but that's still not enough b/c we have so many damn holes. Would love to see them deal down a few spots pick up some more picks, and then pick up the top impact defensive player on the board and then come back at 20 and grab Mauluaga as well who I

Especially given Jim Schwartz's preference for a "punch you in the gut "defense, I cant see him coming into this team and burning a 1st pick on a QB. it's just not his M.O.. He came from a team that was led to the best record in the league by Kerry Collins for cripes sake.

I could possibly see them going with Andre Smith the OT from Alabama at #1, but he's got some character question marks surrounding him, and some people like Mike Mayock on NFL Network dont even have him ranked as the best OT, much less the #1 player overall. Looking forward to watching some of these guys at the scouting combine in the next couple weeks.

Everyone keeps saying that the Lions should choose an OT over a QB, but the reality is that the Lions can get BOTH in this first. Draft Stafford, draft an OT and then draft defense.

You can't look at Schwartz and see a guy that is only interested in defense and wouldn't jump at the chance to add a weapon like Stafford. He isn't that guy. Schwartz is not Bill Parcells. Schwartz likes offense, he was going to bring in Mike Leach from Texas Tech to run his offense in San Fransico if they hired him and not Nolan.

The Lions have no QB on their roster that deserves a spot on the team in 2009. Period. They have no future at QB and in the NFL you must have a QB to have a future. Draft Stafford, let him take his lumps and come out better for it. He doesn't need to be on a good team to evolve. Peyton Manning lost almost very game of his rookie year. This draft cannot simply be about doing whats best for 2009, it must be whats best for the years after.

Stafford is a better NFL prospect than Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford or anyone else that will emerge in 2010. He is the best NFL QB prospect since Peyton Manning. He will be a success. If the Detroit Lions don't want to be the Detroit Lions anymore they draft Stafford. Anything short of that is a mistake and one that will doom this team and this organization into mediocrity for years.

Also bringing up Alex Smith and Joey Harrington in a discussion about Stafford is silly because Alex Smith and Joey Harrington are nothing like Stafford in anyway. Alex Smith came from a spread offense and asked to be an NFL QB - anyone with a brain could see that was going to be a failure. Joey Harrington came from another system, not a professional style that Stafford has spent the last seven years learning.

Stafford is not like Harrington, he is not like Smith, he is not like Leaf, he is not like Akili Smith, etc. etc.



According to the draft valuation chart, they'd want more than just an extra 2nd rounder to move down to 4.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Although I dont think Seatlle believes that any of the 3 teams ahead of them in the draft are going to take Crabtree so I'm not sure they even have the incentive to move up. Unless they're worried about St. Louis trading out of their spot to a team like the Giants or Bears who need a WR.


Just because it would be "undervalue" doesn't make it a bad pick. If on paper they can get more, but in reality they can only get a second round from Kansas City - they should make that trade. The fourth pick in the Second round can be used on a franchise player in this draft.

Also Michael Crabtree is a target of St. Louis - a very, VERY real target. Neither NY or Chicago are going to move up.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Thank you, that is what I have been saying all along. They need to go OT with Andre Smith. Culpepper was under constant pressure; with more throwing time thanks to Smith and a preseasons worth of learning the plays, I think he'd be an alright qb while you develop Kevin Smith. If they can become a power rushing team around Kevin Smith and Kevin Jones, thatll take huge pressure off whoever the qb is, and that will start with drafting an olineman.


Culpepper is going to get cut come March, and Kevin Jones is a Chicago Bear.

They need a leader for the franchise ASAP. The Falcons and Ravens both had rookie head coaches and rookie QB's. Look where that got them. With Jim Schwartz coming in as head coach, I think it's important that they get to work on rebuilding the franchise with Stafford.

For every rookie that has a nice season, there are 20 who are horrible and flame out. Its not as simple as saying "well the Falcons and Ravens both had rookie QB's and rookie QB's last year and they were successful" so thats some kind of formula for success. You have to look beyond that. Both of those teams were successful because of strong defenses and good offensive lines that stayed healthy all year. The Lions defense, outside of Ernie Sims, is dreadful, and their offensive line is an even bigger joke. Putting a young QB behind that line is suicide.

Everyone keeps saying that the Lions should choose an OT over a QB, but the reality is that the Lions can get BOTH in this first. Draft Stafford, draft an OT and then draft defense.

You can't look at Schwartz and see a guy that is only interested in defense and wouldn't jump at the chance to add a weapon like Stafford. He isn't that guy. Schwartz is not Bill Parcells. Schwartz likes offense, he was going to bring in Mike Leach from Texas Tech to run his offense in San Fransico if they hired him and not Nolan.

Did you see Schwartz's press conference when he was hired or what he said to the season ticket holders? His priority is building a punishing defense and a power running attack. Unless he was all out BSing us, he's not wasting the first pick on Stafford.


The Lions have no QB on their roster that deserves a spot on the team in 2009. Period. They have no future at QB and in the NFL you must have a QB to have a future. Draft Stafford, let him take his lumps and come out better for it. He doesn't need to be on a good team to evolve. Peyton Manning lost almost very game of his rookie year. This draft cannot simply be about doing whats best for 2009, it must be whats best for the years after.

I'm not saying anything about them doing whats best for next year. This team however is 3 or 4 players above an expansion team at this point. They need to build everywhere. You start with your lines and build out from there. You dont start building a team from the skill positions. Ask David Carr or Jamarcus Russell.

Stafford is a better NFL prospect than Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford or anyone else that will emerge in 2010. He is the best NFL QB prospect since Peyton Manning. He will be a success. If the Detroit Lions don't want to be the Detroit Lions anymore they draft Stafford. Anything short of that is a mistake and one that will doom this team and this organization into mediocrity for years.

I think you're really over-estimating Stafford's ability. To call him "the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning" would be a stretch. Outside of that dope Mel Kiper, I havent seen many sources that rank him as some sort of 'can't miss" prospect.


Also bringing up Alex Smith and Joey Harrington in a discussion about Stafford is silly because Alex Smith and Joey Harrington are nothing like Stafford in anyway. Alex Smith came from a spread offense and asked to be an NFL QB - anyone with a brain could see that was going to be a failure. Joey Harrington came from another system, not a professional style that Stafford has spent the last seven years learning.

I wasnt talking about their pedigrees. I used Smith and Harrington as examples of very talented college QB's who ranked high with NFL Scouts on their pure ability who came into bad situations, had no success, lost confidence and their careers were ruined. Stafford would now be coming to a team that's worse than either of those teams. The style of offense Stafford was in at Georgia is going to matter VERY little when he is getting beat senseless and starts throwing hail mary's to Megatron hoping for the best b/c thats all he has time to do. Not to mention Georgia QB's dont exactly have a track record of NFL success so the effect of that system seems to matter very little. I cant even name a GA QB in the NFL in the last decade outside of Quincy Carter.


Stafford is not like Harrington, he is not like Smith, he is not like Leaf, he is not like Akili Smith, etc. etc.

Not yet at least.

[The Game]

Lions DONT need a Stafford or that overrated robo QB from USC, they have far bigger needs, let Peps be the QB for the short term, a rookie QB be on the Lions = Ultimo bust and we have been there before

[StorminNorman]

Culpepper is going to get cut come March, and Kevin Jones is a Chicago Bear.

:lmao:

For every rookie that has a nice season, there are 20 who are horrible and flame out. Its not as simple as saying "well the Falcons and Ravens both had rookie QB's and rookie QB's last year and they were successful" so thats some kind of formula for success. You have to look beyond that. Both of those teams were successful because of strong defenses and good offensive lines that stayed healthy all year. The Lions defense, outside of Ernie Sims, is dreadful, and their offensive line is an even bigger joke. Putting a young QB behind that line is suicide.

Which is why you must look at the successful rookies and see why there were successful. Matt Ryan was a QB that played in a Pro system, that showed a great head when under fire, that had all the tools, was a leader, etc. - while these seem like basic qualities, they are not frequently in all in the same package. Stafford is Matt Ryan with a bigger arm. Now yes, the Lions have huge needs in other positions - but the Lions are gifted in having more than one pick in the entire draft. This draft is also skewed brilliantly for the lions. Where one draft normally has one or two franchise tackles - this draft has four to six. Where one draft normally has a handful of great pass rushing DE's, this draft will have star pass rushers drafted from the second round. The positions most stacked in this draft are OT, DE and CB - and the Lions can get starters at all three positions, AND GET MATT STAFFORD.

Did you see Schwartz's press conference when he was hired or what he said to the season ticket holders? His priority is building a punishing defense and a power running attack. Unless he was all out BSing us, he's not wasting the first pick on Stafford.

I have seen Schwartz's press conference but more importantly I have done research on Schwartz himself. This is a guy who molds his gameplans around the players he has, a guy who is big in data analysis and a guy who isn't against scoring points. He is also a guy that has Calvin Johnson at WR. To have one of the most talented WR's and then neglect the passing game would be a classic Lions move, not what I think the Lions are doing now.

I'm not saying anything about them doing whats best for next year. This team however is 3 or 4 players above an expansion team at this point. They need to build everywhere. You start with your lines and build out from there. You dont start building a team from the skill positions. Ask David Carr or Jamarcus Russell.

Or I could ask Peyton Manning because thats what the Colts did. And who says build from the skill positions? The skill positions don't need building, they are built. And you know whats great about Matt Stafford? He is USE to playing with a poor offensive line.

I think you're really over-estimating Stafford's ability. To call him "the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning" would be a stretch. Outside of that dope Mel Kiper, I havent seen many sources that rank him as some sort of 'can't miss" prospect.

I don't care what other scouts say, Matt Stafford is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning. Look at his physical tools, look at the system he comes from, look at the production he had in school, look at the mental toughness he has displayed in big game. Matt Stafford is the complete package all wrapped around one of the most impressive arms in the NFL, period.

I wasnt talking about their pedigrees. I used Smith and Harrington as examples of very talented college QB's who ranked high with NFL Scouts on their pure ability who came into bad situations, had no success, lost confidence and their careers were ruined. Stafford would now be coming to a team that's worse than either of those teams. The style of offense Stafford was in at Georgia is going to matter VERY little when he is getting beat senseless and starts throwing hail mary's to Megatron hoping for the best b/c thats all he has time to do. Not to mention Georgia QB's dont exactly have a track record of NFL success so the effect of that system seems to matter very little. I cant even name a GA QB in the NFL in the last decade outside of Quincy Carter.

But see, thats just it. Smith and Harrington were COLLEGE QB's who ranked high with NFL scouts - Stafford is, in many ways, NOT A COLLEGE QB. He comes from a professional system at Georgia which does mean a lot. You can correlate directly the throws Georgia asked him to make to the ones he will need in the NFL. The guy is use to having the get the ball fast because of a pressing defense and a poor line. And he thrived last year with those hurdlers.

Also, while Georgia hasn't had a star QB in a long, long time - they haven't had a QB skilled enough to be an NFL QB since Quincy Carter. That being said Georgia's ability to crank out NFL talent simply cannot be ignored. They rank second in the number of NFL players - this is a good place to draft from.

[RAMORE]

Thank you, that is what I have been saying all along. They need to go OT with Andre Smith. Culpepper was under constant pressure; with more throwing time thanks to Smith and a preseasons worth of learning the plays, I think he'd be an alright qb while you develop Kevin Smith. If they can become a power rushing team around Kevin Smith and Kevin Jones, thatll take huge pressure off whoever the qb is, and that will start with drafting an olineman.

The Stafford to Ryan comparison is very similar to the McFadden to Peterson one this year. Physically theres not a big difference, but the situations are. Stafford would be a monumental bust if he were their starter next season, almost no doubt about it. They are better off going otackle and LB and a few good free agent moves and they could be ok with Culpepper at the helm. Ok as in 3-5 wins, but next year you an have a line ready and then draft your qb and try to make your push.

I completely agree with this trade down man and pick up major players you need an overhall and there are going to be some great qb's next year ie. mcoy, tebow, bradford. I don't agree with 3 wins though Culpepper can still play he just can't run for his life you improve both lines you could easily win 7 games next year:up:

[RAMORE]

Everyone keeps saying that the Lions should choose an OT over a QB, but the reality is that the Lions can get BOTH in this first. Draft Stafford, draft an OT and then draft defense.

You can't look at Schwartz and see a guy that is only interested in defense and wouldn't jump at the chance to add a weapon like Stafford. He isn't that guy. Schwartz is not Bill Parcells. Schwartz likes offense, he was going to bring in Mike Leach from Texas Tech to run his offense in San Fransico if they hired him and not Nolan.

The Lions have no QB on their roster that deserves a spot on the team in 2009. Period. They have no future at QB and in the NFL you must have a QB to have a future. Draft Stafford, let him take his lumps and come out better for it. He doesn't need to be on a good team to evolve. Peyton Manning lost almost very game of his rookie year. This draft cannot simply be about doing whats best for 2009, it must be whats best for the years after.

Stafford is a better NFL prospect than Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford or anyone else that will emerge in 2010. He is the best NFL QB prospect since Peyton Manning. He will be a success. If the Detroit Lions don't want to be the Detroit Lions anymore they draft Stafford. Anything short of that is a mistake and one that will doom this team and this organization into mediocrity for years.

Also bringing up Alex Smith and Joey Harrington in a discussion about Stafford is silly because Alex Smith and Joey Harrington are nothing like Stafford in anyway. Alex Smith came from a spread offense and asked to be an NFL QB - anyone with a brain could see that was going to be a failure. Joey Harrington came from another system, not a professional style that Stafford has spent the last seven years learning.

Stafford is not like Harrington, he is not like Smith, he is not like Leaf, he is not like Akili Smith, etc. etc.





Just because it would be "undervalue" doesn't make it a bad pick. If on paper they can get more, but in reality they can only get a second round from Kansas City - they should make that trade. The fourth pick in the Second round can be used on a franchise player in this draft.

Also Michael Crabtree is a target of St. Louis - a very, VERY real target. Neither NY or Chicago are going to move up.


Dude come clean Norman if that's your real name your Stafford arent' you?:grin:

Seriously though I get where you are coming from but nothing is certain in the NFL if (and that's a big IF) Stafford is as good as manning then you draft him regardless and work your way up from there but he has no pedigree and is not a sure thing. I hope your right though.

[Excel]

Culpepper is going to get cut come March, and Kevin Jones is a Chicago Bear.

1) Culpepper isnt getting cut, at worst he will be Orlovskys back up.
2) I meant Rudi Johnson :o


For every rookie that has a nice season, there are 20 who are horrible and flame out. Its not as simple as saying "well the Falcons and Ravens both had rookie QB's and rookie QB's last year and they were successful" so thats some kind of formula for success. You have to look beyond that. Both of those teams were successful because of strong defenses and good offensive lines that stayed healthy all year. The Lions defense, outside of Ernie Sims, is dreadful, and their offensive line is an even bigger joke. Putting a young QB behind that line is suicide.

Nail on head.

Did you see Schwartz's press conference when he was hired or what he said to the season ticket holders? His priority is building a punishing defense and a power running attack. Unless he was all out BSing us, he's not wasting the first pick on Stafford.

Which is exactly the way to go.

Everyone keeps saying that the Lions should choose an OT over a QB, but the reality is that the Lions can get BOTH in this first. Draft Stafford, draft an OT and then draft defense.

The reality is this would be BEST off just trading it away for more picks. Theyll still have 2 st rounders and will get avoid to the massive contract of a 1st overall pick.

The Lions have no QB on their roster that deserves a spot on the team in 2009. Period.

Cant disagree there.


They have no future at QB and in the NFL you must have a QB to have a future.


That quite simply isn't true. Arizona just went to the super bowl.

Draft Stafford, let him take his lumps and come out better for it.

Who has that ever happened to? Mannings team was terrible but he still threw 26 touchdowns. What happens with rookie QB who start and suck is they lose confidence, get the rep of a bust. and thats it. Harrington, Smith are just the 2 biggest examples.

Peyton Manning lost almost very game of his rookie year
But he personally played exceptionally well for a rookie. He threw 26 touchdowns and averaged 233 passing yards a game. That is a ridiculous comparison.

Stafford is a better NFL prospect than Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford or anyone else that will emerge in 2010.

That isnt true at all. Jimmy Clausen had better natural abilty as a freshman in college that Stafford has right now any scout will tell you that.

He is the best NFL QB prospect since Peyton Manning.

:dry:

You cant be serious. JaMarcuz Russel, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, all of them were literally 5x more accomplished than Stafford.

Stafford has next Kyle Boller written ALL. OVER. HIM.

He will be a success.

Thats very similar to how you said at this point last season "Matt Ryan WILL be a bust."

Come on man.


If the Detroit Lions don't want to be the Detroit Lions anymore they draft Stafford. Anything short of that is a mistake and one that will doom this team and this organization into mediocrity for years.


Psh. If they go oline, Kevin Smith is an easy 1200 yard rusher next season if he stays healthy. I'd be anxious to see how Orlovsky or Culpepper would do with time to throw.

[The Incredible Hulk]

:lmao:


Which is why you must look at the successful rookies and see why there were successful. Matt Ryan was a QB that played in a Pro system, that showed a great head when under fire, that had all the tools, was a leader, etc. - while these seem like basic qualities, they are not frequently in all in the same package. Stafford is Matt Ryan with a bigger arm. Now yes, the Lions have huge needs in other positions - but the Lions are gifted in having more than one pick in the entire draft.

I dont know man. The last time I heard "big arm" and "pro system" used to tout a QB in the draft they were talking about Matt Leinart. That doesnt instill a ton of confidence in me.


This draft is also skewed brilliantly for the lions. Where one draft normally has one or two franchise tackles - this draft has four to six. Where one draft normally has a handful of great pass rushing DE's, this draft will have star pass rushers drafted from the second round. The positions most stacked in this draft are OT, DE and CB - and the Lions can get starters at all three positions, AND GET MATT STAFFORD.

I agree about the depth of the draft, which is why I feel like its all the more necessary to acquire some more picks and get as many of those great players as possible. If we can sucker KC or Seattle into jumpin up into our spot to take a QB or WR, and come out of it with 6 or 7 picks in the first 3 rounds, I'd sign for it right now.


I have seen Schwartz's press conference but more importantly I have done research on Schwartz himself. This is a guy who molds his gameplans around the players he has, a guy who is big in data analysis and a guy who isn't against scoring points. He is also a guy that has Calvin Johnson at WR. To have one of the most talented WR's and then neglect the passing game would be a classic Lions move, not what I think the Lions are doing now.

I dont think he'll neglect the QB position either. He can find a QB with a little bit of seasoning elsewhere either through a trade, free agency, or even a later round draft pick. Look at how many QB's on playoff teams this year were picked up off the scrap heap: Warner, Collins, Pennington, Delhomme, Romo, etc.



I don't care what other scouts say, Matt Stafford is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning. Look at his physical tools, look at the system he comes from, look at the production he had in school, look at the mental toughness he has displayed in big game. Matt Stafford is the complete package all wrapped around one of the most impressive arms in the NFL, period.

Well I dont share your enthusiasm about the guy. I'll watch him a bit closer at the combine (assuming he goes) and see if there's something there that I missed earlier. If the Lions do draft him, I hope for our sake that you're right. We havent had a pro Bowl caliber QB since the year I was born. (Greg Landry)

I completely agree with this trade down man and pick up major players you need an overhall and there are going to be some great qb's next year ie. mcoy, tebow, bradford.

Tebow will be lucky to be a possession wide receiver in the NFL. I also think Sam Bradford is another Jason White. McCoy does show some promise however.

[Excel]

More of think of it, the smarter I would say it would be for them to just trade the pick. They ought to trade down to Mid-late 1st round and pick up another 2nd and/or 3rd rounder. They'd still have 2 1st roundes. They need all the day one picks they can get.

[Mastodon123]

Like I said before the Lions should go after Cassel instead of picking up Stafford in the Draft. The Lions aren't in the right place to bring in a rookie quarterback. Depending how it goes in the 2009 season, they should draft a quarterback next year.

[StorminNorman]

1) Culpepper isnt getting cut, at worst he will be Orlovskys back up.
2) I meant Rudi Johnson :o

Culpepper probably will get cut because his second year contract is double the size of his first year. He will get cut for cap reasons.

The reality is this would be BEST off just trading it away for more picks. Theyll still have 2 st rounders and will get avoid to the massive contract of a 1st overall pick.

I agree here. The Lions should trade down to four. Where they can still get Stafford and add more players around him.

That quite simply isn't true. Arizona just went to the super bowl.

I should of said that while rebuilding, you need a QB of the future.

Who has that ever happened to? Mannings team was terrible but he still threw 26 touchdowns. What happens with rookie QB who start and suck is they lose confidence, get the rep of a bust. and thats it. Harrington, Smith are just the 2 biggest examples.

But Harrington and Smith are also probably the two QB's drafted in the first round that have the least in common with Matt Stafford.

You don't get the rep of a bust after a bad first year on a bad team, that doesn't happen.

But he personally played exceptionally well for a rookie. He threw 26 touchdowns and averaged 233 passing yards a game. That is a ridiculous comparison.

And? I think Stafford can do that. Having Calvin Johnson helps.

That isnt true at all. Jimmy Clausen had better natural abilty as a freshman in college that Stafford has right now any scout will tell you that.

LOL, simply not true. Stafford came into Georgia with as much hype as any QB in the last ten years.

:dry:

You cant be serious. JaMarcuz Russel, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, all of them were literally 5x more accomplished than Stafford.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Are you...kidding me? LOL

JaMarcus Russel was more accomplished than Stafford? Five times more even? Thats funny because they have the same number of TD's in college and Stafford threw for over 1,000 more yards. Stafford won more games as a college QB as well.

Donovan McNabb did have more impressive stats, but he also had an extra year to compile them. Stafford had a better record in Bowl Games (3-0) and had a 30-9 record compared to McNabbs 34-14.

Drew Brees was a monster in college, but he also played in a QB "system" with an offense known to put up monster yards. But you can't with a straight face argue that Brees was a more attractive pro prospect than Stafford when he was not drafted till the second round.

Eli Manning actually has very similar stats to Stafford. Again, he had an extra year but the production was remarkably similar. Stafford also was far more successful in winning than Eli Manning, however, and has a significant number of come from behind/game winning drives - something Eli did not.

Your argument hold no water, especially when you add in the clear and obvious hyperbole of "literally five times more"

Stafford has next Kyle Boller written ALL. OVER. HIM.

Stafford and Kyle Boller have nothing in common with each other outside of the arm. Kyle Boller did not play in Pro Style offense and came from a system that is notorious for producing NFL busts at QB. Boller didn't have the success Stafford has, nor did he have Stafford's experience.

Thats very similar to how you said at this point last season "Matt Ryan WILL be a bust."

Come on man.

I was wrong about Matt Ryan. I admit that, I have admitted that. But I have also been right about every other QB that has been drafted in the first or second round since Peyton Manning.

Psh. If they go oline, Kevin Smith is an easy 1200 yard rusher next season if he stays healthy. I'd be anxious to see how Orlovsky or Culpepper would do with time to throw.

Orlovsky isn't an NFL QB and Culpepper is a shadow of his former self. I love 24K and I am excited at the idea of a Stafford-Smith backfield.

[NewYorkSpider]

For every rookie that has a nice season, there are 20 who are horrible and flame out. Its not as simple as saying "well the Falcons and Ravens both had rookie QB's and rookie QB's last year and they were successful" so thats some kind of formula for success. You have to look beyond that. Both of those teams were successful because of strong defenses and good offensive lines that stayed healthy all year. The Lions defense, outside of Ernie Sims, is dreadful, and their offensive line is an even bigger joke. Putting a young QB behind that line is suicide.


I think you underestimate this Lions team. There were at least 6 games this season that they could've won. They just had trouble closing out games. They were up by 16? on the Carolina Panthers(a playoff team) on the road. They were tied with the Colts(a playoff team) entering the 4th quarter on the road. This team has the capability of winning football games. They just lack a certain chemistry that could make them competitive. Back in 2007, the Falcons had one of the worst offenses and defenses in the league. That didn't stop them from drafting a QB with their first pick. They also had another first round draft pick. Who do you think they drafted? That's right, an offensive tackle. The Lions are in the same position the Falcons were last year in the draft. With the right moves, this team could have a good off-season.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Like I said before the Lions should go after Cassel instead of picking up Stafford in the Draft. The Lions aren't in the right place to bring in a rookie quarterback. Depending how it goes in the 2009 season, they should draft a quarterback next year.

so instead of them spending one first round pick on a QB you think they should spend 2? :confused: maybe if it was Drew Brees or Jay Cutler I do that deal, but not Cassell who has one season of experience behind a cast of all pro's. It'd be like Scott Mitchell all over again.

[Excel]

Like I said before the Lions should go after Cassel instead of picking up Stafford in the Draft. The Lions aren't in the right place to bring in a rookie quarterback. Depending how it goes in the 2009 season, they should draft a quarterback next year.

I dont know. Their passing game is 50% deep bombs to Johnson, 2% sacks and 25% int. Cassel cant throw the deep ball very well. They would NEVER trade the 1st overall pick for him, so itd likely have to be their 20th overall pick instead. The problem is, theyd have Cassel 14 million AND whatever they pay the 1st over all pick. So I am not sold on the idea.

THAT SAID...Cassel progressed VERY well in 2009, so it is imagineable his deep would be improve. He also showed the 2 intangibles that are always huge question marks for rookie qbs, and thats

1. He was an excellent game manager
2. He was magnificiant in the clutch

Ideally then for them to aquire him, they trade the 20th overall pick to NE for Cassel, and then trade the 1st overall pick to say Chicago (who wants Crabtree) for the 18th overall pick and maybe a 3rd rounder. They than draft a olineman with the 18th pick. Theyd have to be careful or they could end up oweing NE 2 1st rounders...

Honestly though I would say its a bad idea. He wouldbe better than Stafford, but I dont think they should take Stafford either.

[The Incredible Hulk]

I dont know. Their passing game is 50% deep bombs to Johnson, 2% sacks and 25% int. Cassel cant throw the deep ball very well. They would NEVER trade the 1st overall pick for him, so itd likely have to be their 20th overall pick instead. The problem is, theyd have Cassel 14 million AND whatever they pay the 1st over all pick. So I am not sold on the idea.

THAT SAID...Cassel progressed VERY well in 2009, so it is imagineable his deep would be improve. He also showed the 2 intangibles that are always huge question marks for rookie qbs, and thats

1. He was an excellent game manager
2. He was magnificiant in the clutch

Ideally then for them to aquire him, they trade the 20th overall pick to NE for Cassel, and then trade the 1st overall pick to say Chicago (who wants Crabtree) for the 18th overall pick and maybe a 3rd rounder. They than draft a olineman with the 18th pick.

Honestly though I would say its a bad idea. He wouldbe better than Stafford, but I dont think they should take Stafford either.

Cassell has the franchise tag on him as of yesterday. He's still a free agent, so we dont have to trade for him, but if we sign him he'd cost us two first round picks, which I guess is a de facto trade anyway.

If New England retains him, they have to pay him Top 5 QB money. The Lions could theoreticaly sign him for less as he wouldnt be our franchise player, although its doubtful he'd agree to anything less than the $14 million the Pats would have to pay him next year.

[Mastodon123]

so instead of them spending one first round pick on a QB you think they should spend 2? :confused:

No they should focus on defense in the 1st round. They don't have to trade away one of their 1st round draft picks away to get Cassel from the Patriots. For the 2010 draft they should get a QB. Drafting a rookie quaterback this year could be a huge mistake for the Lions, and its the Millen era all over again.

[The Incredible Hulk]

No they should focus on defense in the 1st round. They don't have to trade away one of their 1st round draft picks away to get Cassel from the Patriots. For the 2010 draft they should get a QB. Drafting a rookie quaterback this year could be a huge mistake for the Lions, and its the Millen era all over again.


We would have to forfeit 2 first rounders to sign him since he's franchised. One this year and one next year, unless of course we waited until after the draft to sign him., but its still 2 1st rounders either way

[Mastodon123]

If thats the case they should try signing a verteran QB instead of getting Stafford. Maybe Collins if he can't reach a deal with the Titans. Who knows though maybe Culpepper will get back in the game.

[Excel]

Off topic, I would love to see the Rams take Crabtree. That would just **** everything up so bad :hehe:

Culpepper probably will get cut because his second year contract is double the size of his first year. He will get cut for cap reasons.

I doubt it. Even if they take Stafford I doubt he plays. Culpepper is a veteran; he'd have mroe to offer than anybody else. And he did not play THAT bad last season. The arm is strong as its ever been and he can still move.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d19f92

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80c86463

If they give Culpepper a full offseason of working with Johnson, hell throw 25 touchdown passes next season.

I should of said that while rebuilding, you need a QB of the future.

Ok, yes. But than again....Miami Dolphins? They got Chad Henne for a 2nd round pick. Theres always guys who could make decent qb's in later round, they just have to be put int the right system.

They dont have a system and will severely over payright now.

But Harrington and Smith are also probably the two QB's drafted in the first round that have the least in common with Matt Stafford.

Harrington is not bad though Smith was drafted because he could supposably run.

And? I think Stafford can do that. Having Calvin Johnson helps.

No way. I dont know what you see but he is not anythign special compared to the top qb's of previous years; Peyton Manning was.

LOL, simply not true. Stafford came into Georgia with as much hype as any QB in the last ten years.

:dry:

Jimmy Clausen was called by most scouts the "greatest prospect ever".

Stafford was just another hyped up qb, there many of them every year.


JaMarcus Russel was more accomplished than Stafford? Five times more even? Thats funny because they have the same number of TD's in college and Stafford threw for over 1,000 more yards. Stafford won more games as a college QB as well.

1st of all, Russell barely played a freshman while Stafford started. Of course hell have more yards.

Final year #'s:

Russell: 3,129 yards, 28 td, 8 int, 68 completion %, 9.15 yards-per-attempt
Stafford: 3,459 yards, 25 td, 10 int, 61% completion %, 9.03 yards per attempt

Russel has decently better numbers in every category; only reason Stafford topped him in yards is because Russell threw 40 less passes.

Russell has the the better #'s and physical aspects of the 2. Maybe not 5x but I was exagerating to make my point of you much your overrating Stafford.

Donovan McNabb did have more impressive stats, but he also had an extra year to compile them. Stafford had a better record in Bowl Games (3-0) and had a 30-9 record compared to McNabbs 34-14.

Stafford played on a better team. McNabb had #'s and physical aspects on him.

Drew Brees was a monster in college, but he also played in a QB "system" with an offense known to put up monster yards. But you can't with a straight face argue that Brees was a more attractive pro prospect than Stafford when he was not drafted till the second round.

He was the 2nd qb taken, which, had Bradford entered, Stafford might have been.

Your argument hold no water, especially when you add in the clear and obvious hyperbole of "literally five times more"

Hyperbole aside the argument stands. Stafford has nothing on any of these guys, its the opposite.

[Excel]

We would have to forfeit 2 first rounders to sign him since he's franchised. One this year and one next year, unless of course we waited until after the draft to sign him., but its still 2 1st rounders either way

That only happens in certain circumstances. Most doubt it would happen with Cassel.

[StorminNorman]

Like I said before the Lions should go after Cassel instead of picking up Stafford in the Draft. The Lions aren't in the right place to bring in a rookie quarterback. Depending how it goes in the 2009 season, they should draft a quarterback next year.

Cassel isn't the right gut for Detroit at all. Especially since they would have to trade that same draft pick to New England for him.

I dont know man. The last time I heard "big arm" and "pro system" used to tout a QB in the draft they were talking about Matt Leinart. That doesnt instill a ton of confidence in me.

What were you watching? Leinart was never touted as having a big arm, nor did he come from a Pro System. :lmao: Cutler was that QB in that draft. Lienart was the Heisman winner and playboy, Vince Young was the phenom and Cutler was the smart, big armed QB from the pro style offense.

I agree about the depth of the draft, which is why I feel like its all the more necessary to acquire some more picks and get as many of those great players as possible. If we can sucker KC or Seattle into jumpin up into our spot to take a QB or WR, and come out of it with 6 or 7 picks in the first 3 rounds, I'd sign for it right now.

Neither KC or Seattle will take Stafford, but Crabtree is possible. Get Stafford and everyone else and Detroit will have a good team for years.

I dont think he'll neglect the QB position either. He can find a QB with a little bit of seasoning elsewhere either through a trade, free agency, or even a later round draft pick. Look at how many QB's on playoff teams this year were picked up off the scrap heap: Warner, Collins, Pennington, Delhomme, Romo, etc.

But there isn't a QB in this free agency that is worth an upgrade over what Detroit has. Yes, you can look later in the draft for a Romo - but Romo wasn't ready to start year one either. Delhomme and Warner went through Arena and Europe leagues first. Its not as easy to find a hidden QB as you are making it out to be.

Well I dont share your enthusiasm about the guy. I'll watch him a bit closer at the combine (assuming he goes) and see if there's something there that I missed earlier. If the Lions do draft him, I hope for our sake that you're right. We havent had a pro Bowl caliber QB since the year I was born. (Greg Landry)

I really have a lot of hope for Detroit. Their handling of the post season has been nothing short of phenomenal. They have an amazing coach in Schwartz, fantastic coordinators around him - there is a reason to be optimistic about Detroit right now and thats why I want Stafford there. He should be a face for a franchise and the corner stone of a rebuilding effort.


Tebow will be lucky to be a possession wide receiver in the NFL. I also think Sam Bradford is another Jason White. McCoy does show some promise however.

Bradford is better than Jason White, but he isn't nearly as Pro-Ready as Stafford. I really like McCoy, but I wouldn't pick him over Stafford.

More of think of it, the smarter I would say it would be for them to just trade the pick. They ought to trade down to Mid-late 1st round and pick up another 2nd and/or 3rd rounder. They'd still have 2 1st roundes. They need all the day one picks they can get.
If the Lions trade their first pick for a midround first and third or even a midround first and second they are idiots.

[Dark Donnie]

If The Lions traded there first they would get a team's first this year and next...automatic, unless the move in the first is small.

[StorminNorman]

Off topic, I would love to see the Rams take Crabtree. That would just **** everything up so bad :hehe:

I think this is very possible, though it really doesn't **** up anything.

I doubt it. Even if they take Stafford I doubt he plays. Culpepper is a veteran; he'd have mroe to offer than anybody else. And he did not play THAT bad last season. The arm is strong as its ever been and he can still move.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d19f92

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80c86463

Stafford could of joined the team last year and he would of been the best QB on the roster.

If they give Culpepper a full offseason of working with Johnson, hell throw 25 touchdown passes next season.

I really hope Detroit does pass on Stafford and Culpepper starts - I would love posting this quote all of next year.

Ok, yes. But than again....Miami Dolphins? They got Chad Henne for a 2nd round pick. Theres always guys who could make decent qb's in later round, they just have to be put int the right system.

Why should we think Chad Henne is going to pan out? Also Chad Henne would be the second QB drafted in this draft.

They dont have a system and will severely over payright now.

:huh:

Harrington is not bad though Smith was drafted because he could supposably run.

:lmao:

No way. I dont know what you see but he is not anythign special compared to the top qb's of previous years; Peyton Manning was.

I have watched every game Stafford has played. I have seen him lead a team back from 18 points down, I have seen him throw his team into FG position and then throw a pitch perfect fade pattern in overtime when his team could not afford to lose. I have seen him march up the field against Kentucky to win the game. I have seen him make every throw on the field. He is special.

:dry:

Jimmy Clausen was called by most scouts the "greatest prospect ever".

Stafford was just another hyped up qb, there many of them every year.

BOth Clausen and Stafford were hugely hyped QBs. They were EQUALLY hyped. The difference is Stafford has performed, Clausen hasn't.

1st of all, Russell barely played a freshman while Stafford started. Of course hell have more yards.
Final year #'s:

Russell: 3,129 yards, 28 td, 8 int, 68 completion %, 9.15 yards-per-attempt
Stafford: 3,459 yards, 25 td, 10 int, 61% completion %, 9.03 yards per attempt

Russel has decently better numbers in every category; only reason Stafford topped him in yards is because Russell threw 40 less passes.

Russell has the the better #'s and physical aspects of the 2. Maybe not 5x but I was exagerating to make my point of you much your overrating Stafford.

Those numbers are practically the same. And what those numbers don't show is that the majority Russell's touchdowns came against Arizona, Tulane, Mississippi St and Louisana Laufiette.

Stafford played on a better team. McNabb had #'s and physical aspects on him.

You are really stretching it.

He was the 2nd qb taken, which, had Bradford entered, Stafford might have been.

The majority of scouts disagree.

Hyperbole aside the argument stands. Stafford has nothing on any of these guys, its the opposite.

You are absolutely amazing in your ability to be so enthusiastically wrong.

[NewYorkSpider]

The Incredible Hulk, I don't know if you saw my post on the last page.

For every rookie that has a nice season, there are 20 who are horrible and flame out. Its not as simple as saying "well the Falcons and Ravens both had rookie QB's and rookie QB's last year and they were successful" so thats some kind of formula for success. You have to look beyond that. Both of those teams were successful because of strong defenses and good offensive lines that stayed healthy all year. The Lions defense, outside of Ernie Sims, is dreadful, and their offensive line is an even bigger joke. Putting a young QB behind that line is suicide.


I think you underestimate this Lions team. There were at least 6 games this season that they could've won. They just had trouble closing out games. They were up by 16? on the Carolina Panthers(a playoff team) on the road. They were tied with the Colts(a playoff team) entering the 4th quarter on the road. This team has the capability of winning football games. They just lack a certain chemistry that could make them competitive. Back in 2007, the Falcons had one of the worst offenses and defenses in the league. That didn't stop them from drafting a QB with their first pick. They also had another first round draft pick. Who do you think they drafted? That's right, an offensive tackle. The Lions are in the same position the Falcons were last year in the draft. With the right moves, this team could have a good off-season.

[Excel]

:huh:

Rookie QB do well when put into the right system. Withthe right system, you can make a 2nd rounder a pro bowler.

They have no system, so Stafford would likely blow.
He isnt a 2nd rounder but 1st overall pick, so they would pay much more.

:rofl:
I was referring to the comparison not talent ;)

I have watched every game Stafford has played. I have seen him lead a team back from 18 points down, I have seen him throw his team into FG position and then throw a pitch perfect fade pattern in overtime when his team could not afford to lose. I have seen him march up the field against Kentucky to win the game. I have seen him make every throw on the field. He is special.

Each years big qb always does that. It takes a lot more to translate to the pros.

BOth Clausen and Stafford were hugely hyped QBs. They were EQUALLY hyped. The difference is Stafford has performed, Clausen hasn't.

Clausen was the most hyped qb ever, if your deneying that there is no way you were closely following it. As Staffords performance, he lead the unquestioned most talented team in the country down from #1 to what, #20?



Those numbers are practically the same

But they arent. Russell did more with less.

And what those numbers don't show is that the majority Russell's touchdowns came against Arizona, Tulane, Mississippi St and Louisana Laufiette.

And 20% of Staffords came against Georgia Tech. Your point? Thats how you get huge stats: huge numbers against ****** teams and decent ones against good teams.

You are really stretching it.
You are probably the only person who thinks so. McNabb was a beast in college. And I forget Big Ben as well.

You are absolutely amazing in your ability to be so enthusiastically wrong.

You would know; I can still recall our debates and how you wouldnt budge from the "Darren McFadden will be an elite back with an Adrian Peterson sized season" even when it was obvious he was going to Oakland.

[StorminNorman]

Rookie QB do well when put into the right system. Withthe right system, you can make a 2nd rounder a pro bowler.

They have no system, so Stafford would likely blow.
He isnt a 2nd rounder but 1st overall pick, so they would pay much more.

Thats assuming that the Lions have no system - I think Schwartz has one, I think he is exactly the sort of coach Detroit needs.

Each years big qb always does that. It takes a lot more to translate to the pros.

Not at all. Most QB's that have come out lately have not played in a Pro Style offense. From the first round Flacco, Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler are about it the last five years.

Clausen was the most hyped qb ever, if your deneying that there is no way you were closely following it. As Staffords performance, he lead the unquestioned most talented team in the country down from #1 to what, #20?

And you know who was the most hyped QB ever before Clausen? Stafford. In the internet age every QB is the most hyped QB ever. Stafford took a team crippled by injuries (a sophmore-freshmen offensive line without its star left tackle). Also you can hardly blame Stafford for any of the losses since his offense put up 30+ points in EVERY loss.

But they arent. Russell did more with less.

More with less? Really? Hilarious.

And 20% of Staffords came against Georgia Tech. Your point? Thats how you get huge stats: huge numbers against ****** teams and decent ones against good teams.

And Georgia Tech is a better team than Tulane, Mississippi State and Louisiana Laufietta combined.

You are probably the only person who thinks so. McNabb was a beast in college. And I forget Big Ben as well.

McNabb was a beast in college - and if Stafford had played an extra year he would of surpassed McNabb in stats.

You would know; I can still recall our debates and how you wouldnt budge from the "Darren McFadden will be an elite back with an Adrian Peterson sized season" even when it was obvious he was going to Oakland.

I never said the seasons would be the same - I compared them by talent and talent only.

[StorminNorman]

Here was my 2008 Draft review (ignore the egregious spelling and grammar), I may of been a little off on Matt Ryan:

Arizona Cardinals: D+
The Cardinals needed a Running Back this draft, Edgerin James is turning 30 and they have no depth at that position. Instead of picking up a big name runner they take Tim Hightower in the fifth round. While Hightower is a competent player worthy of a roster spot, he is not going to be a 1,000 yard back for Arizona. I loved Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie in the first, but every pick after that was a real disapointment. They had needs at Linebacker, Safety and Running Back, I don't think they addressed them here.

Atlanta Falcons: C-
I made it very well known that I loathed what the Falcons did in the first round. Ryan WILL be a bust, Sam Baker was a reach and Chris Lofton didn't really fill a pressing need. Chevis Jackson, Harry Douglas and Thomas DeCoud were fantastic third round picks, however, and really saved this draft for me. I always like to see Atlanta draft Georgia and Georgia Tech players (the easiest way to cause interest in the local area after a bad year) and Thomas Brown is good enough to make an NFL roster. They didn't, however, address replacing Alge Crumpler and could of used some help for the DL.

Baltimore: B-
Baltimore two great picks in the first day with Flacco and Rice. Travers Gooden is a very talented prospect who could really pay off. I don't think they found any gems late in the draft, but few teams do. They could of done more to address the aging secondary, but Tom Zbikowski could be a very good player in this league.

Buffalo: A+
I love this draft class. McKelvin was one of my favorite prospects in this entire draft, a great CB who adds real danger as a Return Specialist. James Hardy was a good pick for Buffalo in the second and Xavier Omon is a fine choice to back up Lynch. Derek Fine will solve a need at TE. Buffalo filled all their needs and have a lot of young players that will contribute. I think this draft class will pay large dividens over the next three years.

Carolina: C-
ESPN commentators were praising Carolina, but I don't see it. They had larger needs than RB their first pick and I am not sold on injury prone Stewart. With a very deep Running Back corps in this draft, I think Carolina had bigger needs to address. I love Jeff Otah at OT, but I am not sure he was worth the draft picks he forced Carolina to give up. Charles Godfrey is a good value pick in the third, but corner wasn't a pressing need for tha panthers. Carolina still has MAJOR QB concerns and they did nothing to address that this draft.

Bears: B
I really liked the Bears draft class. Chris Williams and Earl Bennett are great additions to the team at Ot and WR respectively. I am not sure Forte was the best pick at RB, but I saw less of him than any other top RB. I really liked the Bears second day, Marcus Monk in the seventh was a steal as was Kellen Davis. I would of liked to see them take a QB in this draft, but they have the start of a real good offensive package in Chicago with Bennett, Davis, Monk, Forte AND the Olsen, the TE from last year.

Bengals: B+
Keith Rivers was a great pick up for multiple reasons and Jerome Simpson was a guy I like - big hands and long arms. I am not sure Andre Caldwell well not be a bust, but Pat Simms and Jason Shirley were great second day pick ups. I love the potential of Corey Lynch, as well - a great pick up in the sixth round. I think 7th round Mario Urrutia will turn out to be a better player than Caldwell.

Browns: C+
Its hard to really evaluate a team with only five draft picks (and none before the third round). I think Bell and Rucker were good pick ups and I consider Brady Quinn a part of this draft. The Browns are making the right moves and I think they are prone to take the AFC Norse title.

Cowboys: B+
They only had six picks, but I think there is a good chance every pick makes the roster or practice squad. Felix Jones is the perfect fit to back up Barber. Jenkins was a CB that should of been drafted sooner. Martellus Bennett is a TE that can make plays. Tashard Choice is a good back that will add another fold to the Cowboys running game. Orlando Scandrick is a talented CB who only went in the firth round because of character concerns. They could of used a WR.

Broncos: B-
I love Ryan Clady and Eddie Royal for this team, but I don't get that excited about any other picks the Broncos made. I think Carlton Powell is undersized for a DT and Ryan Torain has some injury concerns. Josh Barret is the most intriguing second day pick, IMO.

Lions: A+
Memo to Mike Millon: This is the way to draft. They addressed needs at OT and OLB day one. They picked up the best RB for their system in Kevin Smith. Fluellen is a good prospect at DT and Kenth Moore showed potential at Wake Forrest. Hell, I am even excited about Jerome Felton, a Fullback! You aslo can't help but smile at the Lions selection of Army prospect Caleb Campbell. I think you have three players in Cherilus, Dizon and Smith that make a noticable impact next year.

Packers: D-
Not a big fan of Jordy Nelson, but I think Brian Brohm was the mistake of this draft. I think Borhm is a good pro prospect, but his selection in the second does nothing but create controversy. Patrick Lee is a good pick at CB, but I can't help but think unneeded QB controversy cancels out most of the high notes this draft had for the Packers.

Houston: A
Duane Brown is a real interesting prospect at OT, but I think Alex Gibbs will mold him into a dominate big man on the OL. I would like to see him get up to 325, and he does need some work on his technique, but I love the upside. Antwuan Molden is a promising CB, and like Brown is a bit raw - but he has sub 4.40 speed. The real highlights of the Texan's draft were the selection of Xavier Adibi, Steve Slaton and Dominque Barber.

Indianapolis: A
Mike Pollak is a good OL prospect, and Philip Wheeler has potential to start at OLB. Marcus Howard is a player with tremendous upside and could fill the hole Cato June left last year. Tamme and Santi were good TE prospects for a team that utilizes their TE. I love the selection of Mike Hart.

Jacksonville: F
I still don't understand trading up so high for Derrick Harvey. I don't like Quentin Groves and I don't think any pick made in the late rounds are going to have any real impact. Needs at OL and Safety were left unaddressed. I have to scratch my head at this, I had come to expect more.

Kansas City: A
I am not as high on Glenn Dorsey as most are, but Brenden Albert is a perfect pick for KC. I love Brandon Flowers and Jamaal Charles, I think Brad Cottam is a great heir to the Gonzales throne and Brendon Carr was a good fifth round pickup. Looking at this class there is a lot of reason to be excited, I think Kansas City got about five or six starters and even though I don't think Glenn Dorsey will ever get a Yellow Jacket, he will provide solid output and help a weak Run Defense.

Miami: B
The Tuna has come. Jake Long is a great pick, as was Chad Henne who could get real playtime this year. Three DL prospects help sure up that large problem for Miami and the OL got two potential starters in Long and Shawn Murphy, Donald Thomas provides some guard depth. Lex Hilliard is an interesting prospect and does give some depth to a RB squad with more than one question mark.

Minnesota: B-
I really like Tyrell Johnson and John David Booty filled a real need at QB. Jaymar Johnson has potential. Like Cleveland, there draft was very limited, but they got at least one starter for 2008 out of it.

New England: C
They certainly brought in youth for their aging LB corpse, though spending a third round pick on a QB doesn't fly well with me. Terrence Wheatley is a good prospect at Corner, though I don't see him replacing Samuel's production.

New Orleans: B-
I like Sedrick Ellis and Tracy Porter to help the New Orlenas Defense, both will start. Carl Nicks was a player I thought could of gone as high as second round, I think he is as good as the Falcon's first round choice Sam Baker. Adrian Arrington will make the roster and make some plays as a WR. I am surprised they did not try for a DE nor did they make a trade for Shockey.

NY Giants:B
Kenny Phillips is a player that will improve the secondary instantly and Terrell Thomas is a good pick up as well. Mario Manningham was a gift in the third round. Andre' Woodson is an interesting QB talent, I don't think he will overtake Jared Lorenson's number two spot.

NY Jets: B
I like Vernon Gholston, I love Dustin Keller and Dwight Lowery led the nation in intereceptions in 2006. Erik Ainge is a potential starter at QB for the Jets. I think they found three starters in this draft. Not going for a Running Back was an interesting choice.

Oakland: B-
I thought the Raiders had a great draft last year (even though I was not then nor now totally sold on Russell) and I think they followed it up nicely this year. McFadden was THE best player in this draft and he will instantly improve that team. I found it a bit odd on a team whose biggest problem was defense, they chose three offensive players in five picks.

Philidelphia: B+
Philly was able to get a lot of picks out of this draft, and they got some fantastic quality in this quantity. Laws is a great DT prospect and DeSean Jackson should create a lot of excitement in for McNabb. They filled their needs at WR, OL, DL and Safety - there is nothing to complain about for the Eagles in this draft.

Pittsburgh: B-
Mendenhall was a good pick up to add depth and talent at the running back position. Limas Sweed was my number one WR coming into this draft, so grabbing him was a big win. They didn't get any help at Corner, though they did get their manditory athletic QB project in Dennis Dixon.

San Diego: C
Not alot of picks, but Cason was a pretty good choice in the first round. San Diego is really stock piling CB's, picking up another two this draft. The Fullback Hester is interesting, he will be a good replacement for Turner with his speed and experience playing Special Teams.

San Francisco: C
Balmer will replace Bryant Young and Rachal will be expected to start first year, but they didn't improve a fairly mediocre receiving corps, nor did they bother getting a QB, which I have to question given the problems they had last year at the position.

Seattle: C-
Seattle didn't address needs at WR nor OL. Lawrence Jackson is a player that I like a lot. Its good they got a TE, but they passed up on Fred Davis who was almost universally perceived as the best TE this draft. Using picks on FB, LS and K instead of fixing real holes was a move I don't like at all - even if I like Owen Schmitt, Tyler Schmitt and Brandon Coutu.

St. Louis: D-
I like Chris Long, but St. Louis passed on their number one prospect in Dorsey for him - he will take a year or two to transition into the NFL. Donnie Avery was just a stupid pick with every other WR on the board. There is not a pick by St. Louis I don't have some problem with.

Tampa Bay: D
Another team I did not like was Tampa Bay. I think Aqib Talib was a reach with the 20th pick (especially with Mike Jenkins on the board), and taking a KR over addressing real needs at WR? Josh Johnson is not a very good passer, and Cory Boyd won't make the roster. The pick I like most is Geno Hayes in the 6th round.

Tennessee: B-
I defended the Chris Johnson pick and I think him with Vince Young is scary. Tennessee had the chance to top my list by taking Sweed in the second, however they instead choose to help on the defensive end. I like what I have seen from Lavelle Hawkins, but I would rather he was not the only rookie WR going to training camp for the Titans.

Washington: A+
Washington actually participated in the draft! Devin Thomas, Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly could of all been selected in the first round and no one would of raised an eyebrow. Chad Rinehart will be given the chance to transition as a starter over the next few years and Tryon is a good CB prospect. I think Colt Brennan has a shot at being a damn good NFL QB, and with Jim Zorn bringing in the West Coast system, he could shine here.

[Excel]

I thought the Giants easily had the best draft...Manningham ran the best routes of a college kid in a while and Phillips was a stud.

[The Incredible Hulk]

That only happens in certain circumstances. Most doubt it would happen with Cassel.

What's there to doubt? They put the non-exclusive franchise tag on Cassell. Anyone who tries to sign him has to A) hope the Patriots dont match, and B) if they dont match they give up 2 1st round picks as compensation.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/othersports/2008713293_digs06.html

[The Incredible Hulk]

What were you watching? Leinart was never touted as having a big arm, nor did he come from a Pro System. :lmao: Cutler was that QB in that draft.

Carroll runs an NFL offense at USC. He did it with Chow, Kiffin, Sarkisian, etc. USC for all intents and purposes IS a pro team. Kiper was the one touting his arm strength at the draft and he skewered the Lions for passing on him and taking Sims.


Detroit will have a good team for years.

DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!! ;)


But there isn't a QB in this free agency that is worth an upgrade over what Detroit has. Yes, you can look later in the draft for a Romo - but Romo wasn't ready to start year one either. Delhomme and Warner went through Arena and Europe leagues first. Its not as easy to find a hidden QB as you are making it out to be.

I was talking about Warner and Delhomme from a free agent perspective not for when they were drafted. There are a couple decent FA to be QB's this offseason, Warner being one of them...



I really have a lot of hope for Detroit. Their handling of the post season has been nothing short of phenomenal. They have an amazing coach in Schwartz, fantastic coordinators around him - there is a reason to be optimistic about Detroit right now and thats why I want Stafford there. He should be a face for a franchise and the corner stone of a rebuilding effort.

I want to believe man, but after 33 years I've been burned to the point of being a cynic. Nothing would make me happier than to see them become a solid franchise, but I'll believe it when I see it, and even then I'll be pinching myself.



If the Lions trade their first pick for a midround first and third or even a midround first and second they are idiots.

based on the draft valuation chart I posted, if you deal the 1st overall pick you better get another top 10 1st rounder and then a second and third. Not sure if anyone else has the hots enough to deal up and give up that kind of deal. Mike Ditka is no longer in the league unfortunately.

[The Incredible Hulk]

The Incredible Hulk, I don't know if you saw my post on the last page.


sorry I must've missed this the first time. How do you not underestimate a team that went 0-16?

[Immortalfire]

When did Norman become such a Lions fan?

[NewYorkSpider]

sorry I must've missed this the first time. How do you not underestimate a team that went 0-16?

I'm saying that some people underestimate the team they have at the moment. Rob Marnielli(sp?) wasn't the right fit for that team and Matt Millen is finally gone from being GM. Schwartz is going to turn that defense around, regardless of what they do in the draft. Getting Stafford should be a priority and getting an offensive tackle should be the next.

[Mastodon123]

The entire front office is composed of people who worked under Millen. Their choices DC and OC aren't good choices. Look how well they coached during the season. Thats good enough reason why I still have doubts about the Lions.

[NewYorkSpider]

Scott Linehan is a good offensive coordinator. He had the Vikings in the top 5 for three years in a row in terms of offense. Gunther Cunningham is a brilliant defensive minded coach. Go look at his accomplishments. Some people weren't cut out to be head coaches, but brilliant coordinators. I think the Lions are in for a huge turn around.

[ih8nyy]

Cassell has the franchise tag on him as of yesterday. He's still a free agent, so we dont have to trade for him, but if we sign him he'd cost us two first round picks, which I guess is a de facto trade anyway.

If New England retains him, they have to pay him Top 5 QB money. The Lions could theoreticaly sign him for less as he wouldnt be our franchise player, although its doubtful he'd agree to anything less than the $14 million the Pats would have to pay him next year.

He would sign for a less per year if he gets more guaranteed money over the life of the contract. In the NFL it's all about that guaranteed money.

[StorminNorman]

When did Norman become such a Lions fan?

I root for the underdog. Plus the idea of the Lions having two of my favorite players - Kevin Smith and Mathew Stafford - would make me smile.

The entire front office is composed of people who worked under Millen. Their choices DC and OC aren't good choices. Look how well they coached during the season. Thats good enough reason why I still have doubts about the Lions.

Their choices for DC and OC are actually wonderful choices. Gunther Cunningham was not able to use his defensive system his last few years in KC because Herm Edwards runs a different scheme. When Cunningham was calling the shots, KC's defense made drastic improvements. Also Linehan created the magic that Culpepper and Moss had in Minnesota - if he can get Culpepper 2.0 (Stafford) and combine him with Moss 2.0 (Johnson) there could be sparks.

[Excel]

If they just want a big arm, they should take Freeman at 20.

Smith+Freeman > Stafford + whoever oline is left at 20. Andre Smith is a flat out stud.

[StorminNorman]

No. Andre Smith is not. He's not the best OT in this draft.

Stafford + Oher/Beatty > Smith+Freeman

[StorminNorman]

Carroll runs an NFL offense at USC. He did it with Chow, Kiffin, Sarkisian, etc. USC for all intents and purposes IS a pro team. Kiper was the one touting his arm strength at the draft and he skewered the Lions for passing on him and taking Sims.

Based off the success of Chow and Kiffin in the NFL its clear that USC does not run a Pro-scheme.

I was talking about Warner and Delhomme from a free agent perspective not for when they were drafted. There are a couple decent FA to be QB's this offseason, Warner being one of them...

Any decent NFL free agent is not going to come to Detroit. Warner is either going to play in Arizona, or retire. Collins is either going to be in Tennessee, retire or go to a place like Minnesota or Tampa.

I want to believe man, but after 33 years I've been burned to the point of being a cynic. Nothing would make me happier than to see them become a solid franchise, but I'll believe it when I see it, and even then I'll be pinching myself.

Look at what Detroit has done this post season - they have made all the right moves and more importantly those moves included bringing in smart people. Jim Schwartz is going to be a great head coach.

[danielisthor]

Here was my 2008 Draft review (ignore the egregious spelling and grammar), I may of been a little off on Matt Ryan:



I didn't repost the whole thing, seemed a bit long to ask my follow up question.

How would you rate last year's draft now?

[StorminNorman]

http://drafttek.com/

One of the best Draft websites I have come across.

You can actually set up your own drafts in here with simulators that allow you to alter team needs. A wonderful site.

[Excel]

Interesting site, but their draft has stafford going 17th overall...

[StorminNorman]

Yes, which isn't all together an unlikely possibility considering you can't foresee trades.

[danielisthor]

though i love the nfl draft, i never could see the reason to push out these early draft boards before the combine and teams start free agency. Those 2 all important events have more to do with what happens in the draft than any thing else.

[Excel]

Yes, which isn't all together an unlikely possibility considering you can't foresee trades.

There is no way he falls that far. If he hits 10 somebody will trade up. When is the last time a qb qasnt drafted in the top 15?

[StorminNorman]

There is no way he falls that far. If he hits 10 somebody will trade up. When is the last time a qb qasnt drafted in the top 15?

I agree, but since you can't take into account trades its more effective to let it play out like this in a mock draft, IMO.

[The Incredible Hulk]

There is no way he falls that far. If he hits 10 somebody will trade up. When is the last time a qb qasnt drafted in the top 15?


2000. First QB didnt go until #18 (Pennington)

[RAMORE]

When is the combine? Man I wish I still had NFL network.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Feb 18 -24

[StorminNorman]

Matt Stafford will not throw at the combine, following the example set by Matt Ryan, Manning 1 and Manning 2 - the common factor all four of them share (besides their position) is their agent.

The common belief is that if you are the clear cut top QB in the draft, throwing at the combine can only hurt your stock. Instead Stafford will throw at Georgia's Pro Day where he can work with receivers he already has chemistry with.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Well Pete Prisco seems to like Stafford

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11394618

Although I dont know if that's good or bad for him as I often tend to disagree with Prisco.

[RAMORE]

Matt Stafford will not throw at the combine, following the example set by Matt Ryan, Manning 1 and Manning 2 - the common factor all four of them share (besides their position) is their agent.

The common belief is that if you are the clear cut top QB in the draft, throwing at the combine can only hurt your stock. Instead Stafford will throw at Georgia's Pro Day where he can work with receivers he already has chemistry with.

At first I was like that's cheap man put on a show but the logic is there it can't do anything but hurt you at this point.

[Excel]

Its pretty routine for qbs to do that actually. For a select few like crabtree or staff, the combine could only hurt them. i.e. if crab run a 5.6 or worse while maclin runs a 4.3 and comes in at 6'1, it might not be such an easy decision for some dumb team.

[The Incredible Hulk]

http://drafttek.com/

One of the best Draft websites I have come across.

You can actually set up your own drafts in here with simulators that allow you to alter team needs. A wonderful site.

Still have your boy Stafford going 17. Not sure what happened with Curry to jump him up to #1 now?

[StorminNorman]

Still have your boy Stafford going 17. Not sure what happened with Curry to jump him up to #1 now?

I think they are wrong about Stafford, but what I like best about Drafttek is not their mock draft, but their mock draft simulator that allows you to create your own mocks and set the conditions for them.

[Shemtov]

is the draft only gonna be on NFL network or will it be on the nfl.com/another channel.

[Dr. Evil]

is the draft only gonna be on NFL network or will it be on the nfl.com/another channel.

NFL Network and ESPN

[Shemtov]

NFL Network and ESPN
What time? and will it be on nfl.com?

[Shemtov]

The Eagles need to draft a good QB in the next few years. McNabb's winding down, and Kolb can't inherit the francise.

[StorminNorman]

If the Eagles don't win a Super Bowl next year, I really don't see McNabb ever doing it.

[Dark Donnie]

If the Eagles don't win a Super Bowl next year, I really don't see McNabb ever doing it.

McNabb should haven won one by now. 2004 was his best chance, if T.O. doesn't ruin that team the next year they might have have done it.

I see The Eagles taking either Pettigrew or a OT with the 1st 1st round pick and trading the other. I doubt they want to pay two 1st round draft picks. Packaging the two picks and moving up is a possibility as well.

[Excel]

Crabtree measured in at just over 6'1, well below texas techs and scouting reports 6'3 list. If his vert is under 35 and 40 over 4.6 he could legit fall or maclin lives up to hype.

[StorminNorman]

McNabb should haven won one by now. 2004 was his best chance, if T.O. doesn't ruin that team the next year they might have have done it.

I see The Eagles taking either Pettigrew or a OT with the 1st 1st round pick and trading the other. I doubt they want to pay two 1st round draft picks. Packaging the two picks and moving up is a possibility as well.

Beanie Wells would sure look sexy with Brian Westbrook, though.

[StorminNorman]

Matt Stafford also had a two hour (and agentless) dinner with Lions brass last night.

[Dark Donnie]

Beanie Wells would sure look sexy with Brian Westbrook, though.

Oh he would. I've seen various mocks with us taking him, some have him going earlier though.

[Excel]

Eagles will take Pettigrew at 21 and LeSean McCoy at 28 I think with all the good ot's off. Hopefully they can trade one of them for chad johnson and then draft mccoy/wells/moreno with the 1st rounder they still got.

[Dark Donnie]

Eagles will take Pettigrew at 21 and LeSean McCoy at 28 I think with all the good ot's off. Hopefully they can trade one of them for chad johnson and then draft mccoy/wells/moreno with the 1st rounder they still got.

I personally believe they were hoping Gross wouldn't resign. I think they would have preferred the sure thing and made a serious run at him. I personally would take Wells, Moreno, then McCoy. McCoy seems like a clone of Westbrook.

[Excel]

I personally believe they were hoping Gross wouldn't resign. I think they would have preferred the sure thing and made a serious run at him. I personally would take Wells, Moreno, then McCoy. McCoy seems like a clone of Westbrook.

Hes a lot like Marshawn Lynch.

[StorminNorman]

Eagles will take Pettigrew at 21 and LeSean McCoy at 28 I think with all the good ot's off. Hopefully they can trade one of them for chad johnson and then draft mccoy/wells/moreno with the 1st rounder they still got.

If Beanie Wells is on the table at 21, do you think Philadelphia pulls the trigger?

I really only see Moreno and Wells as the only backs taken first round.

[Cmill216]

WTF @ Crabtree being a midget?

[Immortalfire]

Falcons seem to be talking with Brandon Pettigrew.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Matt Stafford also had a two hour (and agentless) dinner with Lions brass last night.


We dont have "brass" it's more like metal with a cheap coat of paint ;)

[Excel]

I am anxious to see what kind of 40 Ramses Barden runs. Kenny britt also came in bigger than expects; a good 40 and hell be in the 1st round.

I could see:
1. Crabtree - Seahawks
2. Maclin - Tampa Bay/Chicago
3. Harvin - whichever of the 2 doesnt draft Maclin
4. Heyward Bey - Eagles
5. Britt - Giants
6. Nicks- Titans

All very possible for the 1st round, if Sanchez, Stafford, Wells and Moreno all go top 17.

If Beanie Wells is on the table at 21, do you think Philadelphia pulls the trigger?

Depends who else is available. If all the OT are gone, hopefully theyll trade 21 for Chad Johnson and just Wells at 28 if hes still there, if not LeSean McCoy. However, if Pettigrews gone and they Bengals wont trade Johnson, I do think theyll take Wells then.

Wells imo has the biggest upside of the big rb's, but from film LeSean McCoy just might be my favorite. He has Wells pop with Morenos moves but has breakaway speed Moreno lacks.

[Dark Donnie]

Crabtree needs foot surgery, out ten weeks

NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports that Michael Crabtree will be sidelined for the next ten weeks following surgery for a "slight" stress fracture in his foot.
He'll have a screw inserted into the foot. Schefter calls it a "recent injury," but Crabtree has nursed a bad foot/ankle since last October. It's no surprise to find out that something's seriously wrong. He will not work out at all before the draft. Crabtree put a lot on film in Mike Leach's spread offense, but he risks falling out of the top 5-7 picks. He measured far shorter than expected Friday and won't be able to answer questions about his 40 time at Pro Day. Feb. 21 - 11:53 am et



Alabama T Smith goes missing at Combine

Outland trophy winner Alabama T Andre Smith was missing at the NFL Scouting Combine Saturday morning.
There are conflicting reports from Smith and his agent about where he was, and why he didn't show on Saturday. He has recently been located. Either way, this is the story dominating talk in Indy after Smith also admitted that he was out of shape Friday. Smith has a stellar on-field resume, but the Combine couldn't be going worse. This will hurt his chances of being a top-two tackle in the draft. Feb. 21 - 11:10 am et

:brucebat:

[StorminNorman]

I will have a new mock draft after the combine.

Spoiler - Matt Stafford will be still be number one.

[Immortalfire]

Andre Smith continues to screw up... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/around_the_nfl/post/Alabama-s-Andre-Smith-plummeting?urn=nfl,143110

[Excel]

Smith will still go top 10 though hes pretty much eliminated himself fromthe #1 discussion.

Crabtree says he will still run at his pro day anyway; must be doing decently in his own 40s to say that/be nervous about dropping. Still #1 wr but maybe not top 5.

And Mike Oher got out benched by 4 reps by the USC Kicker :dry:

[Excel]

Reports are coming that Crabtree will run the 40 TODAY ala Calvin Johnson and get his surgery on time...well see if this actualy true.

Wide reciever 40 times per ESPN:
Darrius Heyward Bey: 4.27
Percy Harvin: 4.32
Jeremy Maclin: 4.37 reportedly pulled up at the end with a tight hammy
Kenny Britt: 4.45 (also has a massive broad jump of 10 feet 8 inchs)

Britts having a huge combine.

[Excel]

Ala McFadden last year, Heyward Beys official 40 was a bit lower then reported, actually a 4.32; still blazing.

Hakeem Nicks just ran a 4.49; this year will be for wr what last year was for rb and 04 for qb's.

[Dr. Evil]

Future NFL Wide Receiver/Wildcat QB Pat White ran a 4.5

[Excel]

OFFICIAL 40 times:

Heyward Bey: 4.30
Maclin: 4.40
Harvin: 4.41

[Cmill216]

Good God @ DHB. :eek:

[SurfDUI]

I went downtown yesterday lookin to party, but it was cold than a batch in Indianapolis-anyway i tried to see if I could spot so NFL Combine hangouts, but like I said maybe It was too cold, the clubs was weak and I think I only got to see Jon Fox through I think his handlers- I screamed out 'coach Fox' and he turned around. Course it could have been some regular white man, but i think it was him.

I don't think folks will be leaving til tues, so Ima try and catch some goins on tonite.

[Cmill216]

After watching THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjaBWuo4zA) and seeing these Combine numbers, I'm convinced that DHB may very well be the best WR in this entire class.

[StorminNorman]

The combine has been very interesting. DHB is a beast.

[StorminNorman]

Future NFL Wide Receiver/Wildcat QB Pat White ran a 4.5
Pat White actually had a fantastic day throwing the ball. He was one of the sharpest QB's.

[StorminNorman]

My Sleeper QB: Mike Reilly from the U...of Central Washington.

Also Ian Johnson (Boise State) just ran a 4.38 40 (unofficial time), he was expected to be a 4.55 guy. I really like this guy.

[StorminNorman]

Knowshon Moreno ran a 4.55 (unofficial) 40 and has impressed scouts by adding over ten pounds of muscle.

[Excel]

Ouch at Knowshons 40 time, espec. considering it will likely drop with actuals. If he wants to be taken over Wells he better hope Wells isnt sub 4.5

[Excel]

After watching THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjaBWuo4zA) and seeing these Combine numbers, I'm convinced that DHB may very well be the best WR in this entire class.

Crabtrees stil far better; hes much more polished. Johnson and Moss-the guys people try to compare DHB to- had Crabs polish with Beys speed.

[StorminNorman]

Beanie Wells ran a 4.57 unofficial 40.

[StorminNorman]

Also - for 'Fire Brandon Southerland looks great. Ran a 4.7 40, one of the strongest backs at the combine and also had fantastic vertical jump.

[Excel]

Eww at Wells 40; who the hell taught him that form? That was a terrible start with too many choppy steps and he got way too tense at the end. I dont know what it says if Moreno and Wells have essentially the same 40; Wells is far bigger but with less agility but better vision.

[StorminNorman]

Maylock has Moreno as the 7th ranked prospect in the draft and the top RB. He has Wells as the third ranked RB behind Donald Brown from UConn.

[Excel]

^:lmao:

[Excel]

Unnofficial 2nd run time: Wells 4.54 > Moreno 4.63...Wells has about 20 lbs on Moreno. NOT good for Moreno seeing as niether of Wells runs looked good but he still saw a decent increase while Moreno looked fine but dropped a bit.

[Cmill216]

Crabtrees stil far better; hes much more polished. Johnson and Moss-the guys people try to compare DHB to- had Crabs polish with Beys speed.

Polish is nice and all, but the dude is both bigger and faster than Crabtree, and enters the draft with far fewer hang-ups.

[Excel]

Official 40 times have Wells at @ #10 with a 4.59 (wow is this class of rbs slow)...Moreno nowhere to be seen, meaning his best 40 was over 4.6...

[Excel]

Polish is nice and all, but the dude is both bigger and faster than Crabtree, and enters the draft with far fewer hang-ups.

Speed without polish is Chad Jackson, Peter Warrick, David Terrell, Bethel Johnson, Sinorice Moss...

[StorminNorman]

With Wells having a 4.6 40, I don't think Moreno was hurt at all today.

Moreno ran an official 4.6 40.

[Immortalfire]

Knowshon :up:

[Excel]

With Wells having a 4.6 40, I don't think Moreno was hurt at all today.

Moreno ran an official 4.6 40.

Um, Moreno was DEFINITLY hurt today.

1st of all, I highly doubt any team will draft a RB who cant run a sub 4.6 40 in the top 20. 4.5 is acceptabe, but if they cant break 4.6 thats a problem, the only great RB I can think of that ran even close to that was Brian Westbrook, who ran a 4.57. Wells didn't fair much better, but he has the size argument. A guy running a 4.59 at 237 isn't that bad at all, its faster than Brandon Jacobs. That and Wells has a visible second gear while Moreno does not. Moreno running a 4.6 at 215 is not good at all. For comparison, guys with similar styles and sizes ran the following 40's:

DeAngelou Williams: 4.46 (ran it on track turf so it was more like a 4.55, that is why the Pats took Maroney over him)
Laurence Maroney: 4.45
Cadillac Williams: 4.51

Moreno running a 4.6 and then a 4.68 is terrible. They knew he wasnt that fast but that is what MIKE HART ran last year.

Heres the deal:

At the moment, Wells is the more impressive of the 2. The fact is, they roughly the same 40 time on their 1st runs (4.60 for Moreno, 4.61 for Wells), but for the 2nd, Wells improved a bit to 4.59 while Moreno tumbled to 4.68.

Than, factor Wells has 3 inches, 20 lbs, and is hands down the "power" back of the 2 and you have a bad day for Moreno. Its not rocket science. The power back ran faster than the speed back and showed more consistency doing it. Thats not good for the speed back, however you look at it.

After the 1st run nothing had changed, but Wells desicive win in the 2nd run of the 40 over Moreno was what he needed to get himself to #1. That, combined with his impressive jumps, will make the 1st back taken.

FOR THE RECORD I am NOT talking about whether I think Moreno will succeed or not in the NFL-I def. think he will- I am talking souly draft status.

[StorminNorman]

Um, Moreno was DEFINITLY hurt today.

1st of all, I highly doubt any team will draft a RB who cant run a sub 4.6 40 in the top 20. 4.5 is acceptabe, but if they cant break 4.6 thats a problem, the only great RB I can think of that ran even close to that was Brian Westbrook, who ran a 4.57. Wells didn't fair much better, but he has the size argument. A guy running a 4.59 at 237 isn't that bad at all, its faster than Brandon Jacobs. That and Wells has a visible second gear while Moreno does not. Moreno running a 4.6 at 215 is not good at all. For comparison, guys with similar styles and sizes ran the following 40's:

DeAngelou Williams: 4.46 (ran it on track turf so it was more like a 4.55, that is why the Pats took Maroney over him)
Laurence Maroney: 4.45
Cadillac Williams: 4.51

Moreno running a 4.6 and then a 4.68 is terrible. They knew he wasnt that fast but that is what MIKE HART ran last year.

Heres the deal:

At the moment, Wells is the more impressive of the 2. The fact is, they roughly the same 40 time on their 1st runs (4.60 for Moreno, 4.61 for Wells), but for the 2nd, Wells improved a bit to 4.59 while Moreno tumbled to 4.68.

Than, factor Wells has 3 inches, 20 lbs, and is hands down the "power" back of the 2 and you have a bad day for Moreno. Its not rocket science. The power back ran faster than the speed back and showed more consistency doing it. Thats not good for the speed back, however you look at it.

After the 1st run nothing had changed, but Wells desicive win in the 2nd run of the 40 over Moreno was what he needed to get himself to #1. That, combined with his impressive jumps, will make the 1st back taken.

FOR THE RECORD I am NOT talking about whether I think Moreno will succeed or not in the NFL-I def. think he will- I am talking souly draft status.

Except that Wells was expected to run faster than Moreno at the combine.

Moreno's strength was never his speed, it was his allusiveness, his vision, his motor, his energy. He will still be the first back taken in this draft.

[Excel]

Except that Wells was expected to run faster than Moreno at the combine.

Which is why Idot know people think hell go over Wells. Wells is both the faster and more powerful of the 2, it is not a hard decision.

[StorminNorman]

Which is why Idot know people think hell go over Wells. Wells is both the faster and more powerful of the 2, it is not a hard decision.

Wells doesn't have Knowshon's vision, his agility, isn't as smooth a runner, etc. Knowshon's true strength is able to keep his top speed while moving laterally. The faster back isn't the better back.

[StorminNorman]

Also its obvious Lucas Oil Stadium doesn't have nearly as fast of turf as the RCA dome.

[Excel]

That seems to be the thought, but what does that mean? Heyward Bey actually runs a 4.25? It doesnt make that big of a difference.

Wells doesn't have Knowshon's vision, his agility, isn't as smooth a runner, etc. Knowshon's true strength is able to keep his top speed while moving laterally. The faster back isn't the better back.

But being at "top speed moving laterally" isnt saying much when his top speed is 4.6. Wells lateral movement is a bit slower but his flat speed and esepecially his breakaway 2nd gear are much better than Morenos.

They have equal vision; Wells has a knack for finding cutback lanes. Moreno is the more agile and better pass catcher of the 2, but when it comes to straight up running the football its Wells all day, and I think scouts will figure that.

Then againn, if Moreno can get into the 4.5's at his pro day that will help a lot.

[StorminNorman]

That seems to be the thought, but what does that mean? Heyward Bey actually runs a 4.25? It doesnt make that big of a difference.

The WR's and RB's up and down the board ran slower than expected, for DHB to run like he did is absolutely amazing.

But being at "top speed moving laterally" isnt saying much when his top speed is 4.6. Wells lateral movement is a bit slower but his flat speed and esepecially his breakaway 2nd gear are much better than Morenos.

But thats assuming that running a 40 in shorts and shirt is a perfect indication of game time speed.

They have equal vision; Wells has a knack for finding cutback lanes. Moreno is the more agile and better pass catcher of the 2, but when it comes to straight up running the football its Wells all day, and I think scouts will figure that.

Then againn, if Moreno can get into the 4.5's at his pro day that will help a lot.

Wells has redflags at durability and dedication that Moreno lacks as well. I see Moreno going sometime between 12 and 20, probably 16 at San Diego while Wells slips to Philadelphia at 21.

[Excel]

I see Moreno going sometime between 12 and 20, probably 16 at San Diego while Wells slips to Philadelphia at 21.

I would like both of those though I dont see it; Ill have a new mock tomorrow night.

[StorminNorman]

The combine ends on Tuesday, I should have a two round mock draft that night.

[Immortalfire]

Wells doesn't have Knowshon's vision, his agility, isn't as smooth a runner, etc. Knowshon's true strength is able to keep his top speed while moving laterally. The faster back isn't the better back.
Knowshon played in the SEC. Nuff said.

[Dr. Evil]

I see Kansas City as a wildcard in the early part of the first round of the draft. They pick at number three right now and who knows? Maybe they take Mark Sanchez or Matt Stafford (if Detroit doesn't take him). Or they go another direction. It all depends on how GM Scott Pioli and Head Coach Todd Haley feel about Tyler Thigpen. I haven't read anything about how they feel about him, except for Pioli to say that he was evaluating he whole team, including the QB position.

[Immortalfire]

If Detroit doesn't take Stafford, I'm picking that KC will.

[NewYorkSpider]

The Rams could take him at #2 also. Bulger has become a bit injury prone and he's getting older. If the Rams were leaning toward Crabtree (who has an injury at the moment), they could look at someone else now for the draft.

[RAMORE]

I will have a new mock draft after the combine.

Spoiler - Matt Stafford will be still be number one.

Spoilers should be hidden!:wow: Wait a minute....That's not news we new you lovechild stafford would still be number one stop pulling our chain:cmad::grin:

[RAMORE]

After watching THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjaBWuo4zA) and seeing these Combine numbers, I'm convinced that DHB may very well be the best WR in this entire class.

That is hands down the worst Highlight video I've ever seen:wow: I mean I can find video of a hurt Percy Harvin blowing the doors off this guy. And i'm saying it right now if Harvin wasn't so banged up I would take him as the #1 WR over crabtree even he is a game changer period. And I think once he's not being a RB too his injuries will slow down considerably if he slips to 20 or lower he is a steal. When do the Patriots pick? If he's still there Belicheck will take him mark my words.

[StorminNorman]

If Detroit doesn't take Stafford, I'm picking that KC will.

I don't think so, Tyler Thigpin played very well next year and I think KC will look else where. Especially if Curry is still on the board.

The Rams could take him at #2 also. Bulger has become a bit injury prone and he's getting older. If the Rams were leaning toward Crabtree (who has an injury at the moment), they could look at someone else now for the draft.

I don't see that happening.

[NewYorkSpider]

I don't see that happening.


I really don't see it happening either. I'm pretty sure the Lions are going to draft Stafford at #1. I've argued that for quite awhile now. It's something the Rams should think about, though.

[Excel]

Morenos 40 times were actually 4.63 and 4.71...yikes!

[StorminNorman]

Link to that?

I have the official times as 4.6 and 4.63

[Excel]

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/combine/rb.html

They have people in Indy and at the stadium updating. His fastest was 4.63 and his other 4.71. Wells best 4.59 and his other was 4.64.

[StorminNorman]

I still am seeing multiple sources with the 4.6 time for Knowshon.

[Excel]

Watching the film, this years RBs may just prove how usless the 40 is unless they are a real blazer.

N-0mlHNP5u8
Check 5:40, 3:20, 3:27...that guy has a lot more burst than a 4.6 runner. Morenos 4.63 isnt THAT much higher than people expected, but most thought Wells would def. break sub 4.5 and possibly sub 4.4.

[The Incredible Hulk]

The combine ends on Tuesday, I should have a two round mock draft that night.

I'm looking forward to reading it. :up:

[Dr. Evil]

How does KC GM Scott Pioli and KC Head Coach Todd Haley feel about Tyler Thigpen? That could determine who they take at 3.

[RAMORE]

That completely determines who they take really.

[Dr. Evil]

They really haven't said anything about Thigpen, haven't they?

[RAMORE]

No they are being tight lipped on purpose I think. They're taking an honest hard look at everyone I believe.

[Excel]

With Pioli there, they will go d. Theyll take Aaron Curry.

[StorminNorman]

How does KC GM Scott Pioli and KC Head Coach Todd Haley feel about Tyler Thigpen? That could determine who they take at 3.

That completely determines who they take really.

They really haven't said anything about Thigpen, haven't they?

No they are being tight lipped on purpose I think. They're taking an honest hard look at everyone I believe.

IMO with a team like the Cheifs having arguably more holes than the Lions, I don't think they can afford to draft a QB with the first pick. The Rams and Chiefs are going into this draft in a much worse position than the Lions because they do not have the luxury of having extra first and third round picks.

Tyler Thigpen played well and showed great promise. I think Todd Haley is a great coaching fit for him as well. I also believe historically when a coordinator becomes a head coach, their first pick tends to be on the other side of the ball.

[Excel]

I dunno about GREAT promise, but Thigpen were easily good enough to allow them to use the #3 pick on something else. I honestly cant believe people are even asking it, the team couldnt stop the run outside if their lives depended on it. Aaron Curry is a no ****ing brainer.

2 picks Id really love to see.

1. Percy Harvin to Denver as a HB
He'd be Portis-esque in that running scheme while possessing the recieving qualites head coach Josh McDaniels loves. He would be a legit 1000/1000 threat. Legit. perfect fit. This is EXTREMELY unlikely to happen as their defense sucks, but if it some does happen, BE SURE TO DRAFT HIM in Fantasy leagues.

2. Chris Wells to Philadelphia
He goes to a place with excellent coaching and programs that needs a short yardage back, plus he'll hardly ever have to catch which is supposably his big weakness.

[StorminNorman]

If Detroit and Kansas City pass on Stafford (which is very possible) where does he fall to?

[Immortalfire]

San Francisco?

[Excel]

^Yup. They dont have that many real serious needs outside of DT & QB and I dont think Raji will be there.

[StorminNorman]

My new Mock Draft:
1. Detroit Lions – Matt Stafford QB Georgia
I firmly believe in Matt Stafford and I think his stock will only go up from here. He is receiving glowing reviews of his interview skills and he showed he had some speed with a 4.84 40 at the combine. The Lions need Mathew Stafford, this could be the best pick in franchise history.

2. St. Louis Rams – Aaron Curry LB Wake Forrest
Aaron Curry had an amazing combine and he is a player that can play any position asked of him. He has the size to play in the middle, he has the speed to play outside he has the cover ability to play nickel and he has the strength to play with his hand on the ground. Spagnola starting his team with Curry could be a perfect fit.

3. Kansas City Chiefs – Brian Cushing ILB USC
Brian Cushing’s stock has been going only up since the Rose Bowl and I think he could find himself in the top 3. KC wants Aaron Curry but they still need help at linebacker regardless. I think Cushing and Johnson could make for a great linebacker tandem.

4. Seattle Seahawks – Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
Michael Crabtree had a horrible combine but I don’t think he falls past Seattle still. He should perform adequately on his pro day and he has the most impressive film of any player in this draft. He is a lock here.

5. Cleveland Browns – Brian Orakpo OLB Texas
Brian Orakpo is a workout warrior and he could be exactly what Mangini thought Vernon Gholston was last year. He is a true pass rusher who should be a great replacement for either Andre Davis or Willie McGinest.

6. Cincinnati Bengals – Jason Smith OT Baylor
Jason Smith has cemented his spot as the best tackle in the draft and Cincinnati will be counting their blessings if he falls to this spot. This fills Cincinnati’s most crucial with this pick.

7. Oakland Raiders – Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Maryland
Al Davis loves speed and so that means this year he loves Darrius Heyward-Bey. He is taller and faster than Maclin and Al Davis would love to see McFadden throwing long to DHB.

8. Jacksonville Jaguars – Eugene Monroe OT
Jacksonville’s offensive line woes last year destroyed their chances to be a contender last year. Eugene Monroe is a fantastic tackle prospect and he will start for the Jaguars on Day 1.

9. Green Bay Packers – Everette Brown OLB Florida State
Everette Brown played defensive line in college, but is being seen as a 3-4 OLB. Green Bay needs players to fit their change to the system and Brown fits that profile.

10. San Francisco 49ers – Larry English OLB Northern Illinois
Larry English has soared up draft boards and continues to impress. He looked fantastic at the combine and Michael Singletary will have a great partner to Patrick Willis.

11. Buffalo Bills – Tyson Jackson DE LSU
The Bills had no pressure on the passer last year, Tyson Jackson is a big physical defensive end that should help them fix that problem.

12. Denver Broncos – B.J. Raji NT Boston College
B.J. Raji is arguably one of the top two defensive prospects in the draft and he would be a Godsend to Denver. He has the ability to dominate and would serve as a perfect nose guard in Nolan’s 34 defense.

13. Washington Redskins – Andre Smith OT Alabama
Andre Smith could have been the number one pick in the draft, but falling to Washington could be the best for both parties. Andre could start as a right tackle in 2009 and though I question his ability to play on the left side he should be a very good right tackle or guard with the skills demonstrated at Alabama.

14. New Orleans Saints – Malcom Jenkins CB Ohio State
The Saints have needs at both Safety and Cornerback so Malcom Jenkins is a perfect fit here. People are split on which position he should be, but either way he should improve New Orleans’s poor secondary.

15. Houston Texans – Robert Ayers DE/OLB Tennessee
Robert Ayers is another late bloomer. He only had one great year at Tennessee, but he has performed well at the Senior Bowl and the combine. He could give Mario Williams a pass rush presence on the other side.

16. San Diego Chargers – Chris “Beanie” Wells RB Ohio State
Since LT’s days seem to be numbered in San Diego, Beanie Wells could prove to be a great thunder and lightning combo with Darren Sproles.

17. New York Jets – Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
Thomas Jones is turning 30 and New York is going to need a running attack with the passing attack suffering from the loss of Brett Favre. Knowshon could be an NFL star and his personality would make him beloved by the New York media.

18. Chicago Bears – Kenny Britt WR Rutgers
Kenny Britt is a good looking prospect at 6’4 with great speed he has been climbing up draft boards. He should give Chicago a legitimate weapon to play opposite Devin Hester.

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Mark Sanchez QB USC
This could be an ideal situation for Mark Sanchez who has great tools, but I feel will struggle if played too early. It seems that Luke McCown has worked his way to starting QB for 2009, but I don’t think anyone expects him to be the future of the franchise.

20. Detroit Lions –Aaron Maybin OLB Penn State
I expect Detroit to pick up a MLB in the free agency, and Ernie Sims is a great linebacker and this pick should finish the job. I think Detroit can address cornerback late in the draft and Max Unger should still be available come pick 33.

21. Philadelphia Eagles – Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State
Pettigrew is a great tight end prospect that can both block and catch. Pettigrew will help support an aging offensive line and fills a need with the departure of LJ Smith.

22. Minnesota Vikings – Vontae Davis CB Illinois
With Minnesota trading for Sage Rosenfils I don’t think Minnesota will take a huge gamble on Josh Freeman. Minnesota needs help in the aging defensive backfield and Vontae Davis can provide it.

23. New England Patriots – Clay Mathews LB USC
Clay Mathews is a solid football player from a great family. He can play any position the Patriots ask of him and he fits the profile of a Patriots linebacker.

24. Atlanta Falcons – D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt
D.J. Moore was absolutely amazing as both a cornerback and a kick returner and the Falcons need help at both. They would love Brandon Pettigrew here.

25. Miami Dolphins - James Laurinaitis ILB Ohio State
James Laurinatitis isn’t the sexiest prospect in the draft, but the guy is a football player and I could see Parcells falling in love with him.

26. Baltimore Ravens - Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forrest
Baltimore’s weakness in their D was the long passing game and Alphonso Smith is a good step towards repairing that. The guy doesn’t have the best measurable but no CB has performed better in college.

27. Indianapolis Colts – WR Jeremy Maclin
Harrison is gone and the Colts have the ability to simply reload. Harvin could provide lethal speed and should add an exciting new spark to Peyton’s offense. The Colts have a real need at DT, but I don’t think any prospect warrants this pick.

28. Philadelphia Eagles - Michael Oher OT Mississippi
Some once had Michael Oher as the top tackle in the draft, he has now fallen to the late first round. Philadelphia’s offensive tackles both have more than 10 years of experience and its time to build towards the future.

29. New York Giants - Brian Robiskie WR Ohio State
Brian Robiskie gave one of the most impressive combine performances and has pushed his way into the first round. This is New York’s number one need, even if Plaxico escapes jail time.

30. Tennessee Titans – Jarron Gilbert DT San Jose State
Jarron Gilbert has become a youtube sensation and is a physical freak. His measurables are ridiculous for a defensive tackle and he could be asked to fill Albert Haynesworth’s rather large shoes.

31. Arizona Cardinals – Donald Brown RB Connecticut
Donald Brown had a better combine performance than either of the two RB’s I have in front of him and he should provide a good alternative to Tim Hightower.

32. Pittsburgh Steelers – William Beatty OT Conneticut
Marvel Smith has yet to be signed and William Beatty is the best tackle available.

Round 2.

1. Detroit Lions – Max Unger C Oregon
Max Unger could be the best offensive line prospect for the Lions in this draft. He can play center, guard or right tackle and he will start day one.

2. St. Louis Rams - Eben Britton OT Arizona
Many expect St. Louis to pick a tackle in the first round, so its obvious the need is there. Eben Britton has risen since the end of the season.

3. Kansas City Chiefs - Paul Kruger DE Utah
That Kansas City defense needs a lot of help and Paul Kruger could provide a great spark.

4. Cleveland Browns - Coye Francies CB San Jose State
Coye Francies came from a small school but has seen his stock risen thanks to a fantastic Senior Bowl practice.

5. Seattle Seahawks – Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
Seattle needs help on both lines, but there isn’t a tackle here worth the pick.

6. Cincinnati Bengals – C Alex Mack
Alex Mack coupled with Jason Smith is a great way to build a long lasting offensive line.

7. Jacksonville Jaguars – Percy Harvin WR Florida
Jacksonville has been trying to find a legit receiving threat for a long time, if Harvin falls to him here they could finally fix that problem.

8. Oakland Raiders – Sean Smith CB Utah
Sean Smith is a very interesting CB prospect at 6’4.

9. Green Bay Packers -- Darius Butler CB Connecticut
Their defensive backfield is aging.

10. Buffalo Bills – Jared Cook TE South Carolina
Jared Cook is a physical freak and could be a real sexy receiving option for Trent Edwards.

11. San Francisco 49ers – Josh Freeman QB Kansas State
Josh Freeman is arguably a first round talent, San Francisco can’t rely on Shaun Hill or Alex Smith being the QB of the future.

12. Miami Dolphins – Louis Delmas S Western Michigan
Thanks to William Moore’s poor performance at the Senior Bowl Louis Delmas becomes the top prospect.

13. New York Giants -- Rey Maualuga OLB USC
He had a poor combine and some question his speed so he may fall out of the first round.

14. Houston Texans -- Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech
Michael Johnson is a statistical beast with all the talent in the world, but was an inconsistent performer. If Mario Williams can help him fulfill his potential he could provide a scary alternative.

15. New England Patriots -- Rashad Johnson S Alabama
Rodney Harrison is on the NFL Network.

16. Denver Broncos -- Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State
Denver needs linebackers and Marcus Freeman has high upside.

17. Chicago Bears -- Andy Levitre OG Oregon State
The best guard in the draft in a weak year for the position.

18. Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- Connor Barwin DE Cincinnati
Kevin Carter is getting old and they need to look for a replacement.

19. Dallas Cowboys William Moore S Missouri
Was once the top safety in the draft, but he should be able to replace Roy Williams.

20. Philadelphia Eagles LeSean McCoy RB Pittsburgh
Philadelphia needs a between the tackles runner, LeSean McCoy could be that back.

21. New York Jets –Jairus Byrd CB Oregon
The Jet’s secondary is pathetic and they need help at the position.

22. Minnesota Vikings -- Jamon Meredith OT South Carolina
Jamon Meredith has all the physical tools but got benched in college. He has huge potential but has bust written all over him.

23. Atlanta Falcons -- Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi
I was more impressed with Nelson than any other receiver at the combine.

24. Miami Dolphins --Hakeem Nicks WR North Carolina
Miami needs an offensive weapon and Hakeem Nicks is a steal here.

25. Baltimore Ravens -- Cornelius Ingram TE Florida
Ingram was hurt last year but looked solid at the combine. Baltimore needs to make up for Todd Heap’s slowing in production.

26. New England Patriots – Herman Johnson OG/OT LSU
A huge prospect that can play either guard or tackle.

27. Carolina Panthers -- Nate Davis QB Carolina
The NFC Championship game made it obvious Carolina needs to prepare for a day without Jake Delhomme.

28. New York Giants Evander Hood DT Missouri
Evander Hood was one of the strongest defensive lineman in the draft.

29. Indianapolis Colts – Ron Bryce DT Boston College
He played behind Raji, but he is a talented player that the Colts desperately need.

30. Tennessee Titans – Pat White QB West Virginia
Pat White looked great the combine and offers a lot of possibility in Tennessee. The Titans need another receiver, help at punt return and with Vince Young being Vince Young he may have a shot at playing Quarterback.

31. Arizona Cardinals -- Duke Robinson OG Oklahoma
This would be a high value pick here.

32Pittsburgh Steelers -- Jonathan Luigs C Louisville
An athletic center prospect that can help keep Big Ben upright.

[Excel]

I wasnt the only person who moved Robeski into the 1st. Mine is almost done.

And to the same team.

And after all the debates you finally realize Wells will go ahead of Moreno.

[Excel]

After no wr in the 1st round last year, I have 7 going…damn.
1. Detroit: Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
Detroit plays it safe and goes with the beast of an offensive lineman to protect whoever the qb is as they try to become more run focused.

2. St. Louis: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
Curry and Crabtree will tasty, but this is the team that is losing Orlando Pace and wanted Jake Long. Smith is #1 overall talent and they quite simply cant miss him.

3. Kansas City: Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forrest
Piolis first pick is the best defensive player in the draft.

4. Seattle: Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
No brainer.

5. Cleveland: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State

6. Cincinnati: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas

7. Oakland: B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
Al Davis is going to be incredibly enticed to go after a guy Darrius Heyward Bey. But, at the same time, Davis seems to be aware of how dragged through the mud his name has been. Raji is clearly what they need outside of an offensive tackle. They could go Monroe, but I expect him to take the Vince Wilfork clone

8. Jacksonville: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia

9. Green Bay: Everette Browne, DE, FSU

10. San Francisco: Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia
Singletary will want Maybin, but cant pass on Staffords skills.

11. Buffalo: Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahomah State

12. Denver: Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State

13. Washington: Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss

14. New Orleans: Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois

15. Houston: Michael Johnson, DE

16. San Diego: Rey Maualuga,LB, USC

17. New York Jets: Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
Jets snag the stud from Southern Cal who can certainly handle the pressure of NY. He comes into a good oline with an excellent running game and veteran wide recievers.

18. Chicago: Darrius Heyward Bey, WR, Maryland
Chicago adds a potentially electrifying wide receiving weapon for Kyle Orton to play off Devin Hester. Could be a colossal bust but hes shown excellent improvement. Under Lovie Smith, he could flourish.
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19. Tampa Bay: Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
Tampa Bay drafts Joey Galloway 2.0. Maclin had a disappointing 40, but that just tells you how fast he looks in games. He brings instant relief to their special teams game and provides a weapon opposite Bryant. If Sanchez somehow falls past New York and Chicago, Tampa Bay will take him.
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20. Detroit: D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt

21. Philadelphia: Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
Philadelphia gets a franchise running back with big play ability who will solve their short yardage problem from last year. Plus, hes a star who will sell jerseys while Westbrook can focus on receiving more.
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22. Minnesota: Michael Oher, OL, Missippi

23. New England: Brian Cushing, LB, USC

24. Atlanta: Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss

25. Miami: Larry English, LB, Northern Illinois

26. Baltimore: Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers
Flacco gets his beastly target. Britt is incredibly hard to tackle for a wide receiver, with decent ups and hands and good speed. A possible pro bowler as a rookie if it clicks.
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27. Indianapolis: Fili Moala, DT, USC

28. Philadelphia: Hakeem Nicks, WR, UNC
Another guy who bumped himself into the 1st round with a good combine
showing. Though not the biggest or fastest, he hovers as he runs with excellent reads and instincts. With McNabb and Reed helping him, he will flourish in Philadelphia. Extremely deceptive speed with excellent burst; his 40 of 4.5 doesn’t tell his story.
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29. New York Giants: Brian Robiski, WR, Ohio State
A fantastic combine bumped into the first round as the Giants will go with the smoothe, tall receiver as their heir to Plaxico Burress. At 6’3 and running a 4.5 on the “slow” track, he is clearly an excellent athlete. Could be a big time red zone threat. This guy and Manningham could* possible form into a dangerous young wr duo for the Giants.
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30. Tennessee Titans: Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
They have no real major needs that need addressing other than wide reciever, which is why they’ll draft one now unlike past seasons. Harvin is an incredibly dangerous player; the thought of Harvin, Johnson, and Young all on the field at once will give d coordinator sleepless weeks.
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31. Arizona: Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
Arizona and Knowshon both luck out big time. Arizona gets the franchise running back it needs and Moreno goes the team that was just in the Super Bowl and instantly gets to be the guy, running the ball and receiving it. He also goes to a team with an incredible passing game full of quality people; Moreno couldn’t be in a better situation. Should be a solid NFL players; lacks homerun speed but more like an Edgerin James, a guy who can rack up multiple 15-20 yard runs in a game.
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32. Pittsburg: Max Unger, OL, Oregon