2009 NFL Thread

[Cunning Stunts]

Taylor has gone back home good for him, I guess he did not want to win a superbowl

What made you think he'd win one by signing with Washington again?

[NewYorkSpider]

What made you think he'd win one by signing with Washington again?

He's talking about if Taylor had signed with New England.

[Cunning Stunts]

Well, it's official. The NFL will now allow Chad Ochocinco (:whatever:) to use "OCHOCINCO" on his nameplate instead of "JOHNSON".

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8105395c&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[StorminNorman]

I really want Chad 85 to have a great year. I think he is one of the most entertaining characters in the game - he just has to back up the shenanigans with production.

[Excel]

With Palmer back Im sure hell be fine in terms of yardage, though hes never been a real touchdown machine.

[StorminNorman]

I think the Bengals could be the Miami of 2009. The team that no one takes seriously in the pre-season who has a surprisingly successful season, making the playoffs.

[NewYorkSpider]

Cinncy had a great draft. I can see them challenging for a wild card spot.

[Venom'sDad]

Actually, I can see the Lions winning 9 games, maybe 10 if the can split with Minnesota. They won't make the playoffs however.

[StorminNorman]

If the Lions win 10 games, they will make the playoffs.

[Venom'sDad]

I don't think so... I see two out of the East and South, mainly New York & Philly, ATL & the Saints, than Minnesota & Arizona to round out the remaining position. None of those teams will lose more than 6 games... which means Detroit will probably lose the tie-breaker. Their best hope is that New Orleans faulters. Than, dare I say it, there is always the Cowboys Factor.

[Darthphere]

If the Lions win 10 games, look the lions will not win 10 games. They've won 1 game in 2 seasons.

[Immortalfire]

Well, it's official. The NFL will now allow Chad Ochocinco (:whatever:) to use "OCHOCINCO" on his nameplate instead of "JOHNSON".

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8105395c&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
What an ass.
:whatever:

[NewYorkSpider]

If the Lions win 10 games, look the lions will not win 10 games. They've won 1 game in 2 seasons.

The Dolphins went from 1-15 to 11-5. The 09' Lions are completely different from the 08' Lions. Lots of improvements.

[Wiseman]

If the Lions win 10 games, look the lions will not win 10 games. They've won 1 game in 2 seasons.

I don't know if it's just me but don't you always just think of the Lions as a loser team, almost like the Clippers in the NBA. Like I know Arizona has almost always sucked too but when I think of the worst team in the NFL, I've always thought of the Lions

[Darthphere]

The Dolphins went from 1-15 to 11-5. The 09' Lions are completely different from the 08' Lions. Lots of improvements.

Yeah and the season before that? The Dolphins could've easily been 6-10 that season with all the close games they lost. It's not comparable at all.

[NewYorkSpider]

Yeah and the season before that? The Dolphins could've easily been 6-10 that season with all the close games they lost. It's not comparable at all.

Detroit lost a lot of close games last season. They even played competitive against Carolina and Indianapolis. Both playoff teams.

[Excel]

The Dolphins went from 1-15 to 11-5. The 09' Lions are completely different from the 08' Lions. Lots of improvements.

*ahem*

As one of the few-perhaps evwen the only one-ever-who said the Dolphins would be in the playoffs prior to the start of the season...let me say...the Lions are NOT in the same ship the Phins were; theirs is far worse.

1st of all the obvious, the Lions didnt win any games in 2008. The Phins atleast won one in 2007.

2nd of all, the Lions dont have the Tuna.

But 3rd and imo the most important, the Lions didnt spend the majority of the season without their best player. The Dolphins were always getting Ronnie Brown, who when healthy was the nfls best running back in 2007, back on top of all the improvements. It would be the equivalent of Calvin Johnson being out for the year least year in week 7.

On top of that, with the exception of Norm there aint a damn soul on Earth who expects Stafford to play-if he wins the starting job- as well as Chad Pennington did.

I see the Lions as a 5-7 win team. Imo next years big improvers will be the Raiders (9-10 wins), Chiefs (9-10 wins), and 49ers (11-12 wins).

[Venom'sDad]

The Dolphins went from 1-15 to 11-5. The 09' Lions are completely different from the 08' Lions. Lots of improvements.

Exactly, they have made better LB's & DB's pick ups and draft picks. They still suspect as far as pressure on the QB; but their defense should be much better down the stretch. They loss alot of close games fellows and will play a 4th place schedule this year like Miami, which includes the NFC West... I can see this team winning 9 game, 10 if they can Split with the Vikings. They could very well be the Phin's of 09. Their problem will come agains Pit & Bal, Arz, NO, Vikes twice, and Da Bears.

[Excel]

Pennington had a bigger impact than anybody Detroits added this off season...though Daunte could mimic his performance.

[StorminNorman]

*ahem*

As one of the few-perhaps evwen the only one-ever-who said the Dolphins would be in the playoffs prior to the start of the season...let me say...the Lions are NOT in the same ship the Phins were; theirs is far worse.

I disagree.

1st of all the obvious, the Lions didnt win any games in 2008. The Phins atleast won one in 2007.

The Phins were ONE PLAY away from not winning a game. The Lions were ONE PLAY away from winning a game (Orvolosky's safety).

2nd of all, the Lions dont have the Tuna.

I don't think this team could have handled it's offseason better, no matter who was in the front office. Mayhew and Schwartz have done a fantastic job.

But 3rd and imo the most important, the Lions didnt spend the majority of the season without their best player. The Dolphins were always getting Ronnie Brown, who when healthy was the nfls best running back in 2007, back on top of all the improvements. It would be the equivalent of Calvin Johnson being out for the year least year in week 7.

:dry: Really? Ronnie Brown is the difference? Really?

On top of that, with the exception of Norm there aint a damn soul on Earth who expects Stafford to play-if he wins the starting job- as well as Chad Pennington did.

If Culpepper plays well enough to keep Stafford on the bench, it's really a non-issue as it is. Culpepper has to play as well as Chad Pennington did to stay on the field.

I see the Lions as a 5-7 win team. Imo next years big improvers will be the Raiders (9-10 wins), Chiefs (9-10 wins), and 49ers (11-12 wins).

The Chiefs aren't sniffing 9 games with only one offensive weapon. Also, if Jamarcus Russel doesn't play better than he has (or has practiced) there is no way the Raiders will win 9 games.

[StorminNorman]

Pennington had a bigger impact than anybody Detroits added this off season...though Daunte could mimic his performance.

I think Scott Linehan could make a Pennington-like impact through Culpepper.

[Darthphere]

:dry: Really? Ronnie Brown is the difference? Really?

Yeah, I mean think of the QB's we had and the talent we hand on offense. He was leading the league in rushing up to that point he got injured.

[Venom'sDad]

Detroit said they was going to a mid game behind the LB's. Daunte can make those throws. He can't throw the out or have a short game, because he has no timing. He can't make the three-step drop. Mid range to the deep ball is his game, so his rating will improve some. I'm certainly not saying he will have a ProBowl year and I do expect at time we will see the Top Pick, but that's motivation in itself. And it has been reported he has loss weight and is running sprints... now he needs to study film.

[NewYorkSpider]

As one of the few-perhaps evwen the only one-ever-who said the Dolphins would be in the playoffs prior to the start of the season...let me say...the Lions are NOT in the same ship the Phins were; theirs is far worse.

Sure, Detroit has more holes to fill than Miami did. But Detroit's offseason moves is a step in the right direction.


1st of all the obvious, the Lions didnt win any games in 2008. The Phins atleast won one in 2007.


One game isn't that big of a difference.



2nd of all, the Lions dont have the Tuna.


You don't need Parcells to have a good team.

But 3rd and imo the most important, the Lions didnt spend the majority of the season without their best player. The Dolphins were always getting Ronnie Brown, who when healthy was the nfls best running back in 2007, back on top of all the improvements. It would be the equivalent of Calvin Johnson being out for the year least year in week 7.

The Lions went through 3 QB's last season. Miami did the same in '07.


On top of that, with the exception of Norm there aint a damn soul on Earth who expects Stafford to play-if he wins the starting job- as well as Chad Pennington did.


I don't expect Stafford to play well in his first year. It all depends on if Cullpepper plays to his ability.

I see the Lions as a 5-7 win team. Imo next years big improvers will be the Raiders (9-10 wins), Chiefs (9-10 wins), and 49ers (11-12 wins).

Raiders winning 9-10 games? :dry:

[Immortalfire]

Raiders winning 9-10 games? :dry:

Ain't no way.

[Venom'sDad]

Raiders winning 9-10 games? :dry:

I would love for that to come true, but I see this team going 8-8.

[NewYorkSpider]

I would love for that to come true, but I see this team going 8-8.

Oakland has shown me nothing this off-season to tell me they're gonna be competitive. I see them as a 5-6 win team again.

[Venom'sDad]

They have some very winnable games

[NewYorkSpider]

Kansas City has improved greatly. They're defense is going to be better than it was last season. I really can't see them getting by Houston. On top of that, they play the NFC East. I just can't see them getting to 8 wins.

[Venom'sDad]

KC is going nowhere anytime soon, trust me they have many issues, Denver is a dog, they will split with SAN, NFC East best is NY & Philly, WAS is a ?, not sure what team will show up, Dallas is overated. Little Fact: Dallas has never beaten Oakland in Dallas... NEVER... I don't see that changing, NYJ always lose with they travel cross country to play the Raiders, CLE... please. That's 8 wins right there. Maybe 9 depending on what WAS team shows up, but I easily see 8 wins.

[StorminNorman]

KC and St. Louis are still the least talented teams in the NFL.

KC in particular looks like the favorite for failure. Their offense lacks weapons and their defense has MAJOR holes...like who will play NG (the most important position in a 3-4 defense).

[Excel]

You guys missed the point. Ronnie Brown is a top 10 talent. Not only did the 2008 Dolphins have the #1 pick, but they also basically added Ronnie Brown. Thats 2 player with impact of enormous, game changing performances. Lions dont have that.

Aint no way

Just like there was no way they beat Tampa in Tampa with Tampa needing to win to make the playoffs, RIGHT (which I called :cwink:) ?

Oaklands had too many top picks to be bad any more, just aint possible. I mean for real, they have 3 starting running backs; play-action-bombs-away-to-Heyward-Bey should be ridiculously effective, even if thats the only part of the passing game that works. Itll lose up the guys upfront and open it up for their running game as well give Jmarcus more to pass to guys like Zack Miller and Chaz Schillens whove shown potential, espec. Miller. Maybe Javon Walker has life in his old destroyed legs left, and maybe, just maybe, Heyward Bey will be able to more than just run deep.

Defense is still kind of iffy, they should have drafted Brace instead of trading down but w/e, I like their offense enough to say they win ATLEAST 7 games next season, with 8 very likely and 9 probable.

[StorminNorman]

You guys missed the point. Ronnie Brown is a top 10 talent. Not only did the 2008 Dolphins have the #1 pick, but they also basically added Ronnie Brown. Thats 2 player with impact of enormous, game changing performances. Lions dont have that.

I don't believe Ronnie Brown is a top 10 player and certainly wasn't last year. You can't forget that Calvin Johnson is a better weapon than anyone Miami has. You can also counter the Dolphins acquisition of Ronnie Brown for the teams acquisition of Brandon Pettigrew - a player with the potential to be a top 10 TE next year and will help in the running game.

Just like there was no way they beat Tampa in Tampa with Tampa needing to win to make the playoffs, RIGHT (which I called :cwink:) ?

Ryan Leaf had one decent game.

Oaklands had too many top picks to be bad any more, just aint possible. I mean for real, they have 3 starting running backs; play-action-bombs-away-to-Heyward-Bey should be ridiculously effective, even if thats the only part of the passing game that works. Itll lose up the guys upfront and open it up for their running game as well give Jmarcus more to pass to guys like Zack Miller and Chaz Schillens whove shown potential, espec. Miller. Maybe Javon Walker has life in his old destroyed legs left, and maybe, just maybe, Heyward Bey will be able to more than just run deep.

The problem is that JaMarcus Russel is looking like a tremendous bust.

[StorminNorman]

Yeah, I mean think of the QB's we had and the talent we hand on offense. He was leading the league in rushing up to that point he got injured.

His impact on the 2007 is not the same as his impact on the 2008 team. Ronnie Brown didn't have a great year last year. In his last 6 games he had 0 TD's and 1 100 yard game. He only had 3 100 yard games all year and scored almost half of his TD's in one game.

The addition of Ronnie Brown is not the reason the Dolphins went to the playoffs next year.

[Darthphere]

His impact on the 2007 is not the same as his impact on the 2008 team. Ronnie Brown didn't have a great year last year. In his last 6 games he had 0 TD's and 1 100 yard game. He only had 3 100 yard games all year and scored almost half of his TD's in one game.

The addition of Ronnie Brown is not the reason the Dolphins went to the playoffs next year.

Well I wasn't debating that. I was talking about the 2007 season exclusively.

[NewYorkSpider]

KC is going nowhere anytime soon, trust me they have many issues, Denver is a dog, they will split with SAN, NFC East best is NY & Philly, WAS is a ?, not sure what team will show up, Dallas is overated. Little Fact: Dallas has never beaten Oakland in Dallas... NEVER... I don't see that changing, NYJ always lose with they travel cross country to play the Raiders, CLE... please. That's 8 wins right there. Maybe 9 depending on what WAS team shows up, but I easily see 8 wins.

Kansas City will take one game from Oakland. They always split the series. Oakland hasn't beat San Deigo since September 28th 2003. I really don't see that changing. They'll split with Denver. They're not going to win in Houston or New York. They won't beat Philadelphia. The Jets are question mark for me. Sanchez being back on the west coast with a new and improved defense that Rex Ryan has created. I'll give them the games against Cincinnati and Dallas. They won't win in Pittsburgh. The Washington game is a toss up like you said. Win in Cleveland and lose against Baltimore. I still only see around 5-6 wins.

[That-Guy]

I'm watching the NFL Network right now and I have given a name to my pain.

It is John Buzzeo.

[Excel]

I don't believe Ronnie Brown is a top 10 player and certainly wasn't last year. You can't forget that Calvin Johnson is a better weapon than anyone Miami has. You can also counter the Dolphins acquisition of Ronnie Brown for the teams acquisition of Brandon Pettigrew - a player with the potential to be a top 10 TE next year and will help in the running game.

:huh: Um, no? Ronnie Browns averaging 86 rushing yards and 55 rec yards along with 5.2 per carry in 2007 when he tore his ACL, thats not only top 10, thats numero uno. Browns was the best fantasy rb in the league when he went down in 2007.

:lmao: at comparing Browns impact to Brandon Pettigrew

The problem is that JaMarcus Russel is looking like a tremendous bust.

Explain this to me. He only threw 8 int. last year. Dont mistake somebody whose not doing much with somebody whose moving backwards, which is what a bust is. With new weapons and more throwing time, Russel should have no prob. putting up atleast 2tds this year, if he stays healthy. Last year he was just throwing to nobody.

[StorminNorman]

:huh: Um, no? Ronnie Browns averaging 86 rushing yards and 55 rec yards along with 5.2 per carry in 2007 when he tore his ACL, thats not only top 10, thats numero uno. Browns was the best fantasy rb in the league when he went down in 2007.

Robbie Brown's stats in 2007 are irrelevant to his impact on the team in 2008 (which is the matter at hand). In 2008, Brown was not a top 10 talent.

:lmao: at comparing Browns impact to Brandon Pettigrew

Laugh now, but when 34K has a 1400 run year with the majority of the yards coming from the strong side and Pettigrew has 7 TD's and a good chunk of yards.



Explain this to me. He only threw 8 int. last year.[/quote]

[Immortalfire]

Just like there was no way they beat Tampa in Tampa with Tampa needing to win to make the playoffs, RIGHT (which I called :cwink:) ?


Let me borrow that Sports Almanac, sometime.

:whatever:

[Excel]

Robbie Brown's stats in 2007 are irrelevant to his impact on the team in 2008 (which is the matter at hand). In 2008, Brown was not a top 10 talent.

Either way, he was a huge addittion; they also added Williams.

Laugh now, but when 34K has a 1400 run year

The only way Kevin Smith gets 1400 yards is if he gets 350 carries. I like Kevin Smith (if Calvin Johnson wants to be half the star Moss or Owens are, he'll need to stop acting like Marvin Harrison and find some of Smiths swagger; gotta love guy who goes beserk anytime he gets 10 yards+ :lmao:) but in terms of skills...you overrate him to a ridiculous amoun.

[StorminNorman]

Either way, he was a huge addittion; they also added Williams.

No, he wasn't a huge addition. His production, was not what I would describe as "huge"

The only way Kevin Smith gets 1400 yards is if he gets 350 carries. I like Kevin Smith (if Calvin Johnson wants to be half the star Moss or Owens are, he'll need to stop acting like Marvin Harrison and find some of Smiths swagger; gotta love guy who goes beserk anytime he gets 10 yards+ :lmao:) but in terms of skills...you overrate him to a ridiculous amoun.

I obviously disagree. Kevin Smith is not Barry Sanders, but he can be a very successful NFL back with the right system in place for him. I think Pettigrew being able to dominate opposing linebackers and defensive ends will help Kevin Smith out tremendously. Pettigrew really does give the Lions a three tackle set up for running the ball (several believed he was the best blocker in the draft, better than the tackles).

[Excel]

I obviously disagree. Kevin Smith is not Barry Sanders, but he can be a very successful NFL back with the right system in place for him.

Well yeah, but you can say that for literally any running back in the NFL. :hehe:

[StorminNorman]

Exactly! And that's why the acquisition of Brandon Pettigrew is so important. It creates that system.

[BlackLantern]

I saw both the Colts O Coordinator and O Line coach are retiring and both have been there since 1998...the Colts should be worried

[Excel]

Exactly! And that's why the acquisition of Brandon Pettigrew is so important. It creates that system.

I dont see him making that type of difference at all; looks well have to agree to disagree (quite the shocker)

[Immortalfire]

...the Colts should be worried

SurfDUI won't be.

[BlackLantern]

SurfDUI won't be.

they say ignorance is bliss

[Immortalfire]

After all, they're OUR Indianapolis Colts.

[Dr. Evil]

I saw both the Colts O Coordinator and O Line coach are retiring and both have been there since 1998...the Colts should be worried

Doesn't Peyton Manning call the plays on offense anyways?

[SurfDUI]

Somebody needs to explain this pension issue to me.
Is this part of the new CBA? I thought that wasn't for another season, wasn't a strike temporarly avoided by the owners? Why does the National Football League seem so damned greedy as of late...the only thing that even closely rivals the NFL's pop is Hollywood, and if it weren't for all the movies based offa childhood stuff I wouldn't even go to the damn movies.

...and the COLTS will be fine. :ninja:
I haden't planned on all the old guys leavin the ship within the same gdamn offseason, but them's the brakes.

We have a great stable of 'Football' guys, so I can only hope the shake up, or earthquake works more positivly that neg...

[SurfDUI]

Doesn't Peyton Manning call the plays on offense anyways?

It was a two man committee of Tom Moore and 18, the philosophy was about 'concepts' calling the specific plays in the huddle as to 'how' the outcome was to go, and Dungy just kept the red flag and the T.O's.
Here we go 4th and Whatever.

[BlackLantern]

I believe the Colts organization changed the pension plan....not sure if its anything to do with the CBA as they are coaching personnel and not players

[StorminNorman]

Somebody needs to explain this pension issue to me.
Is this part of the new CBA? I thought that wasn't for another season, wasn't a strike temporarly avoided by the owners? Why does the National Football League seem so damned greedy as of late...the only thing that even closely rivals the NFL's pop is Hollywood, and if it weren't for all the movies based offa childhood stuff I wouldn't even go to the damn movies.

This has nothing to do with the CBA. The CBA only impacts players - not coaches. There is no coaches union. Recently the NFL, in light of the economic situation, has changed its rules allowing NFL teams to pull out of the NFL pension plan and have their own. 9 teams opted to do this, including the Colts.

[Double Down]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/doubledown44/flaccodoodle.jpg

Joe Flacco is auctioning off this signed doodle of himself to support Neurofibromatosis Inc.
It could be yours (http://cgi.ebay.com/Joe-Flacco-Original-Doodle_W0QQitemZ260405760483QQihZ016QQcategoryZ144 33QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) for $123 (so far).

[Immortalfire]

LoL

[Darthphere]

I've seen better.

[StorminNorman]

Looks more like Jeff Garcia.

[SurfDUI]

The CBA only impacts players - not coaches. There is no coaches union. Recently the NFL, in light of the economic situation, has changed its rules allowing NFL teams to pull out of the NFL pension plan and have their own. 9 teams opted to do this, including the Colts.


So the League is off the hook for just a quarter of the teams as far as front office pensions go? And I'm surmising that the COLTS pension plan is not as good as the league's? Who were the other 8 clubs?
I wonder if the NFL has a 401K type of deal..

[Excel]

PFT is speculating the Patriots will get in more trouble...:rolleyes:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/17/pats-hid-maroneys-broken-shoulder/

[StorminNorman]

Its a shame Bill Bellicheck is such an *******. If he was likeable...like...at all, he would probably go down in history as the best NFL Coach, ever.

[Excel]

I dunno, with this issue anyway its not like its anything new. Playing through an injuries happens all the time, though having a busted shoulder as a rb would seem like an instant ir, you cant blame him for playing . I doubt Bill forced him into the game.

[BlackLantern]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g39/doubledown44/flaccodoodle.jpg

Joe Flacco is auctioning off this signed doodle of himself to support Neurofibromatosis Inc.
It could be yours (http://cgi.ebay.com/Joe-Flacco-Original-Doodle_W0QQitemZ260405760483QQihZ016QQcategoryZ144 33QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) for $123 (so far).

He got the size of the head right...its for charity, Id bid if I had some extra cash

[Cunning Stunts]

Its a shame Bill Bellicheck is such an *******. If he was likeable...like...at all, he would probably go down in history as the best NFL Coach, ever.

With all the cheating allegations, I sincerely doubt that.

[Excel]

The cheating allegations are enormous reaches at best.

[StorminNorman]

I dunno, with this issue anyway its not like its anything new. Playing through an injuries happens all the time, though having a busted shoulder as a rb would seem like an instant ir, you cant blame him for playing . I doubt Bill forced him into the game.

Yes, because it's not as if Bill has a history of pressuring players to play with injuries.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2751614

[StorminNorman]

The cheating allegations are enormous reaches at best.

Reaches? He was found guilty.

[StorminNorman]

With all the cheating allegations, I sincerely doubt that.

IF Bill wasn't an *******, he never would have cheated. He didn't need to cheat to win, he cheated because he thought he could get away with it.

[Mastodon123]

I dunno, with this issue anyway its not like its anything new. Playing through an injuries happens all the time, though having a busted shoulder as a rb would seem like an instant ir, you cant blame him for playing . I doubt Bill forced him into the game.

The issue isn't that he played injured. The issue is that they didn't list him as having an injury when he infact had one.

[Excel]

Reaches? He was found guilty.

He broke the rules no doubt, however, as many former coaches have stated, theres virtually no advantage to be gained from doing what he did. The fact is, you are allowed to video tape other teams signals from anywhere in the stadium EXCEPT the sideline, which is where NE was dumb to do it from.

[Excel]

Yes, because it's not as if Bill has a history of pressuring players to play with injuries.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2751614

On that occasion is clearly against his will. For Bill to get in troubl eon this, theyd have to make it seem like they forced Maroney to play. Anybody who follows the Pats knows theres no way where Maroney would ever say that.

[Cunning Stunts]

IF Bill wasn't an *******, he never would have cheated. He didn't need to cheat to win, he cheated because he thought he could get away with it.

That doesn't change the fact that he cheated, regardless. The cheating, whether it was needed or not, will most definitely put him into the "no" column when it comes to the Hall of Fame- or "best coach of all time" consideration.

[Excel]

It will for bce, but bill is a hof lock, are you serious?

[Go Web Go!]

Kornheiser is reportedly done with MNF. Gruden is set to be the replacement.

[Immortalfire]

Kornheiser is reportedly done with MNF

Oh please Lord Jesus...let this be true.

[KALEL114]

Kornheiser is reportedly done with MNF. Gruden is set to be the replacement.

It's official. :woot:
Great news!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4174469

[Go Web Go!]

'Ere we are:

Jon Gruden intends to coach again, but until that day, the man known throughout the NFL as "Chucky" will get to sharpen his teeth in ESPN's "Monday Night Football" booth.

Gruden will join play-by-play man Mike Tirico and analyst Ron Jaworski in September, replacing Tony Kornheiser.

"This is a tremendous opportunity and I am very excited to be associated with ESPN and Monday Night Football," Gruden said in a statement released by ESPN. "I grew up a fan of Monday Night Football, and whether I've coached on Monday night or watched, I've hardly missed a game all these years.

"To join Mike and Jaws in the booth and to work alongside this top-notch team is going to be a real thrill."

The 40th season of "Monday Night Football" kicks off Sept. 14 with a doubleheader; the New England Patriots play host to the Buffalo Bills at 7 p.m. ET and the San Diego Chargers visit the Oakland Raiders at 10:15 ET.

Kornheiser decided to step down after three years of MNF.

"I am totally grateful for the MNF opportunity that I truly enjoyed the last three seasons," he said. "I feel we got better each year. My fear of planes is legendary and sadly true. When I looked at the upcoming schedule it was the perfect storm that would've frequently moved me from the bus to the air. I kept looking at the schedule the past month and wanted to find a way to quietly extricate myself."

"If I could handpick a replacement of a football guy, I would cast a net and drag in Jon Gruden," Kornheiser added. "He is the two things you most want -- smart and funny -- and has the two things I don't -- good hair and a tan. I love PTI and am looking forward to continuing to yammer and yodel with Wilbon until the end of time."

Gruden was fired by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on Jan. 16 and replaced by defensive coordinator Raheem Morris just weeks after a season-ending loss to the Raiders cost the Bucs a possible playoff spot.

At 60-57 in seven seasons, Gruden was the winningest coach in Bucs history and led Tampa Bay to victory in Super Bowl XXXVII. He also has coached the Raiders.

Gruden's first MNF appearance will come in an Aug. 13 preseason game that doubles as a Super Bowl rematch between the Arizona Cardinals and Pittsburgh Steelers. Following four preseason games, Gruden, Tirico and Jaworski will call Bills-Patriots on Sept. 14.

"I can't express how much I enjoyed working with Tony the past three years," Tirico said. "It was a professional experience that I enjoyed and a lasting friendship that I will treasure. I think all of us on the show are better for the time we spent working with Tony.

"Looking ahead to this season, I am excited to welcome Jon to Monday Night Football. Every time you are in his company, you come away so impressed by his energy and passion for the game. He will be a perfect fit with our group."

Gruden began his NFL coaching career in 1990 when Mike Holmgren, then offensive coordinator of the San Francisco 49ers, hired him as an assistant in charge of quality control. Gruden quickly ascended through the ranks by learning the famed West Coast offense pioneered by longtime 49ers coach Bill Walsh.

When Holmgren left the 49ers to become head coach of the Green Bay Packers in 1992, he named Gruden the Packers' wide receivers coach. After three seasons in Green Bay, Gruden moved on to become the Philadelphia Eagles offensive coordinator under head coach Ray Rhodes. In 1998, Gruden was chosen by Oakland owner and general manager Al Davis to be the Raiders' new head coach at the age of 34.

A native of Sandusky, Ohio, Gruden grew up in a football family. His father, Jim, served as an assistant at Notre Dame in the late 1970s and later with the Buccaneers. Gruden graduated from the University of Dayton, where he was a back-up quarterback. After graduation, he started his career as a graduate assistant at Tennessee in 1986. He also served as the quarterbacks coach at Southeast Missouri State (1987-88), and the wide receivers coach at both Pacific (1989) and Pittsburgh (1991) in the college ranks.

Gruden worked as a guest analyst earlier this year with the NFL Network during the NFL draft and scouting combine.

[FaT_tONle]

It's official. :woot:
Great news!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4174469

THANK YOU GOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDD.... :woot::woot::woot:

But I don't know about Chucky... of the coaches on these shows though, from Billick, to Herm, to Marriucci, I'd say he'd be the best of that bunch. But something tells me this won't last. Then again what broadcasting team as ever been long term these days?

[BlackLantern]

I'll take Gruden over Kornheiser the whiner any day....

[Cmill216]

Hahahha! That's awesome.

[Raiden]

Thankfully Kornheiser is out of MNF, and although I don't know if Gruden will be a good color announcer or not, I'd rather give him a shot and see if he does well than having Kornheiser for another season.

[Go Web Go!]

Emmitt Smith, Steven A, now Tony - it's been a bad year for bad announcers...which means it's been a good year for us! Weee!

[BlackLantern]

Emmitt Smith, Steven A, now Tony - it's been a bad year for bad announcers...which means it's been a good year for us! Weee!

don't forget Michael Irvin and Sean Salisbury

[Go Web Go!]

don't forget Michael Irvin and Sean Salisbury

Irvin had his days. I didn't mind Salisbury.

[Darthphere]

TK, I love you.

[Marx]

Kornheiser is reportedly done with MNF. Gruden is set to be the replacement.

It's official. :woot:
Great news!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4174469

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

Madden is gone!!!! Now Kornheiser!!!! I won't have to watch some games on mute anymore!!!!

:applaud

[Dark Donnie]

:up: to Gruden

[StorminNorman]

Tony Kornheiser was vastly underrated, but Gruden is a great addition.

[El_Citrus]

Sweet, I don't have to put up with tons of crappy jokes on Monday Nights anymore!

[BlackLantern]

the only thing Kornheiser did I liked was that before the game, he would basically 'write a column' addressing both opponents and what made that particular game noteworthy

[Excel]

I will never understand how people are happy Madden is gone. That said, TK was universally loathed by all, so I am def .glad about this. No more "The Saints had no idea Reggie Bush could catch the ball when they drafted him" or "Adrian Peterspn was a good college back, but nothing like he is in the NFL" or "Speaking of (insert any topic here, BRETT FAVRE ____________".

I like Gruden from what I saw of him during the draft, though he seemed restrained. There probably are better analysts out there-not gonna lie, Im a big fan of Cris Carter hes the only one who actually makes me augh on nfl live-but I can live with Gruden.

[Go Web Go!]

I will never understand how people are happy Madden is gone.

No one is saying the man wasn't great, but come on...he was just a bumbling fool at this point in his career.

[BlackLantern]

Maddens time was past....at least Pat Summerall knew when it was time to hang it up

[Immortalfire]

No one is saying the man wasn't great, but come on...he was just a bumbling fool at this point in his career.

If the veterans have still got it, then by all means let em keep going. But if they don't got it, they need to hang it up.

[StorminNorman]

Madden performance last year was superior to Aikman and Buck.

[StorminNorman]

Remember when Matthew Stafford's contract was signed and everyone was throwing their hands in the air complaining about how his salary was uber ridiculous and what not?

Turns out it could be worth only 17 million dollars. (http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2009/05/matthew_staffords_deal_worth_m.html)

While it's likely Stafford will end up making something closer to 70 million than 17 million when everything is all said and done, the reality is that if Stafford wants to make more than the bare minimum of his contract he WILL have to earn it.

[Marx]

Madden performance last year was superior to Aikman and Buck.

I think that's debatable man.

[Holiday]

To me, Troy Aikman is boring and Buck seems like he's lost passion for the job. I'll take Madden. He's entertaining.

[Marx]

To me, Troy Aikman is boring and Buck seems like he's lost passion for the job. I'll take Madden. He's entertaining.

I like Buck and Aikman. All Madden seemed to do is treat the viewers like they're stupid by pointing out the blatantly obvious...and then having to explain the blatantly obvious...and then explaining the blatantly obvious again with a slightly different perspective.

[Mister J]

Kornheiser's going bye-bye, along with Emmitt Smith? ESPN's commentary has improved immensely.

[Holiday]

I like Buck and Aikman. All Madden seemed to do is treat the viewers like they're stupid by pointing out the blatantly obvious...and then having to explain the blatantly obvious...and then explaining the blatantly obvious again with a slightly different perspective.

Well, Madden was known for stating the obvious but again, I found him entertaining. He is passionate about the game, passionate about broadcasting. I don't sense that from Aikman and Buck. I think back to when Plaxico score the winning TD in the Super Bowl a year ago. Buck was so lethargic calling that play it took away from the moment.

[Marx]

Well, Madden was known for stating the obvious but again, I found him entertaining. He is passionate about the game, passionate about broadcasting. I don't sense that from Aikman and Buck. I think back to when Plaxico score the winning TD in the Super Bowl a year ago. Buck was so lethargic calling that play it took away from the moment.

Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of taste. I couldn't be more thrilled about Madden and Kornheiser no longer being in the booth.

[Holiday]

Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of taste. I couldn't be more thrilled about Madden and Kornheiser no longer being in the booth.

I'm glad to Kornheiser go as well. Nothing against him personally, I love him on Around the Horn, just feel like he wasn't a good fit for MNF.

[Dr. Evil]

Kornheiser's going bye-bye, along with Emmitt Smith? ESPN's commentary has improved immensely.

They still need to get rid of a thousand of them.....they will add 1,000 more NFL guys before training camp.

[Kaiser]

They still need to get rid of a thousand of them.....they will add 1,000 more NFL guys before training camp.

ESPN needs to get rid of just one more guy and then they will have a decent line up.

Trent Dilfer.

[wiegeabo]

Very glad Kornheiser is gone. Maybe I'll be able to watch MNF now.

[NewYorkSpider]

ESPN needs to get rid of just one more guy and then they will have a decent line up.

Trent Dilfer.

Agreed. There's something about Dilfer that I just can't stand.

[StorminNorman]

Dilfer > Tim Hasselbeck

[Dr. Evil]

Anyone think that Chris Berman will be giving nicknames to the rookies?

[StorminNorman]

Matthew "Jesus" Stafford connecting with Calvin Johnson for a Touchdown here for the Lions.

Yea...I could see that.

EDIT:This post would make even more sense at Motownsports.com where I have already made a reputation for myself for being a Stafford apologist :(

[StorminNorman]

I like Buck and Aikman. All Madden seemed to do is treat the viewers like they're stupid by pointing out the blatantly obvious...and then having to explain the blatantly obvious...and then explaining the blatantly obvious again with a slightly different perspective.

Neither Joe Buck nor Troy Aikman ever tell me anything about the game I don't already know. Neither does John Madden. The biggest difference, however, is that John Madden seems to truly love watching football as where Buck and Aikman seems like it's kinda beneath them.

[Dr. Evil]

Neither Joe Buck nor Troy Aikman ever tell me anything about the game I don't already know. Neither does John Madden. The biggest difference, however, is that John Madden seems to truly love watching football as where Buck and Aikman seems like it's kinda beneath them.

Of course it's beneath Buck. He grew up a baseball guy and probably feels that Baseball is the number one sport in the country.

[FaT_tONle]

Hasn't Buck been complaining about baseball games running overly long and what not these days. Not saying he is a football guy but I imagined it was growing on him. I still think that is the best pair as of now until Collinsworth distinguishes himself.

[SurfDUI]

John Gruden on MNF....F john Gruden. ESPN. Out of ideas for over 10 years.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Of course it's beneath Buck. He grew up a baseball guy and probably feels that Baseball is the number one sport in the country.

In addition to Jack Buck being the Cardinals long time announcer, he was also an NFL announcer for almost 30 years (he was broadcaster for the "Ice Bowl" and the radio voice of MNF). I dont know if you can really say that Joe grew up a "baseball guy"

[RAMORE]

Gruden might be the new Madden:eek: Think about it brash young coach from the raiders who's passionate about football. I think he'll be coaching next year but still you never know.

[KALEL114]

NFL, Comcast reach long-term carriage agreement for NFL Network



PHILADELPHIA AND NEW YORK – Comcast Corporation and the National Football League announced today that they have reached a new, long-term agreement regarding carriage of NFL Network and complete settlement of all outstanding legal disputes. The carriage agreement consists of a broad array of video content, including the live (24/7) Network, video on demand for Comcast’s Digital Classic cable customers, and the ability to offer the NFL’s RedZone Channel when it is created.

Under the terms of the agreement, Comcast will begin repositioning NFL Network from the Sports Entertainment Package to its Digital Classic level of service with a full launch by August 1, reaching nearly two-thirds of the company’s total digital customer base. In addition to NFL Network’s in-studio shows, commentary and live-game broadcasts, Comcast’s Digital Classic customers will now have access to a robust suite of NFL content On Demand, including game highlights, game replays, the “best” of NFL Films, players and coaches interviews, local team highlights, and other NFL programming whenever they want a piece of the action.

"We are delighted to have come to an agreement with the NFL,” said Brian L. Roberts, Chairman and CEO, Comcast Corporation. “Our goal has always been to provide our digital customers with access to the NFL’s unique content and, working together, we have struck the right balance between value and distribution on a variety of viewing platforms. We are looking forward to bringing the NFL’s programming to our customers just in time for the start of the NFL season.”

“We are very pleased that NFL Network and other NFL content will be widely distributed in millions of more homes on Comcast’s service,” said NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. “We look forward to having NFL Network’s coverage of training camps and the preseason showcased this summer on Comcast. NFL Network is the only TV channel devoted exclusively to football 24/7, 365 days a year.”

The NFL and Comcast will take immediate joint action to discontinue pending legal actions before the Federal Communications Commission and a New York state court.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81065fa0&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[Dark Donnie]

Awesome news :up:

[Venom'sDad]

Neither Joe Buck nor Troy Aikman ever tell me anything about the game I don't already know. Neither does John Madden. The biggest difference, however, is that John Madden seems to truly love watching football as where Buck and Aikman seems like it's kinda beneath them.
That is so true.... totally agree. :up::up::up:

[Marx]

Neither Joe Buck nor Troy Aikman ever tell me anything about the game I don't already know. Neither does John Madden. The biggest difference, however, is that John Madden seems to truly love watching football as where Buck and Aikman seems like it's kinda beneath them.

As I said before, I think it's a matter of taste. I like Aikman and Buck announcing.

[The Incredible Hulk]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81065fa0&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true


now the NFL just needs to make Sunday Ticket available to all satellite/cable companies and we'll really be on to something....

[Addendum]

I forget the last time I listened to the announcers for NFL games. About a couple years ago, I was playing around with the audio channels on my stereo which I have my TV hooked up to, and during football games, one of the audio channels is the game itself without the announcers. Since then, every game has been a joy to watch.

[BlackLantern]

so Vick gets released today...Goodell and the NFL won't be making any moves until all the legal issues are resolved

[Holiday]

He has a quarterbacks coach and some receivers that are going to work out with him in his backyard while he is on house arrest, is what ESPN was reporting earlier.

[Marx]

Any team that even thinks of hiring Vick is going to face criticism from the public.

[Excel]

I dont like Vick at all but itll be kind of ******** if hes not reinstated. I wonder whered go; maybe San Fran.

[Immortalfire]

Cleveland.

[StorminNorman]

Oakland after Jeff Garcia beats out Russell.

[StorminNorman]

now the NFL just needs to make Sunday Ticket available to all satellite/cable companies and we'll really be on to something....

That's not going to happen. DTV already have those exclusive rights locked up. They are paying major bank for it too.

[Venom'sDad]

I would think Vick would goto Florida... either JAX or MIA

[Dr. Evil]

New Orleans gets 2013 Super Bowl. Good for them.

[BlackLantern]

**** that...Im tired of seeing New Orleans get pity ****ed....the city is crumbling...they should be concerned with rebuilding EVERYTHING first and making sure people have homes...not be concerned with sporting events

[Immortalfire]

I'm amazed Miami didn't get it..but then, it seems like they already host it every year.

[Marx]

**** that...Im tired of seeing New Orleans get pity ****ed....the city is crumbling...they should be concerned with rebuilding EVERYTHING first and making sure people have homes...not be concerned with sporting events

The Superbowl always brings in ALOT of money...I think it will be great for the city of New Orleans.

[Excel]

They should have it in Gillette or in Pittsburg or Lambeau :up: Snow bowl ftw :up:

[Dr. Evil]

Well, with the end of the world coming on 12-12-2012 (according to something I saw on PBS about the Mayans), may not need to worry about the 2013 Super Bowl.

[Immortalfire]

Quite right, Doc Evil.

[Excel]

Terrell Owens has awakened the Buffalo fanbase

http://www.wgrz.com/video/default.aspx?mid=1126712468&maven_playlistId=9811b38a439a63b2e3868b5210c38d560 50935d5

[Cunning Stunts]

Well, with the end of the world coming on 12-12-2012 (according to something I saw on PBS about the Mayans), may not need to worry about the 2013 Super Bowl.

Lol, PBS actually announced something on that? It's just the end of the the world's "cycle" according to the Mayan Calendar, and the last cycle the Mayan Calendar recorded. It means nothing other than that. The world has gone through numerous "cycles".

Long story short, if the word was ending, we'd be in much more hysteria than we're in.

Super Bowl XXVII FTW! :cmad:

[FaT_tONle]

When are we gonna see a cold weather Superbowl? NFL needs to stop *****ing and complaining about it. I mean they are moving to London before a venue like New York... or Lambeau??? Give me a break. We need a cold weather game one of these days. Build some extra luxury boxes for the fat cats flying in from the south if they have to.

[Excel]

Buffalo is going 'Manny to La' with T.O.-

http://www.buffalobills.com/media-lounge/videos/bills-roundup-ota-day-1-to-gets-key-to-the-city/435de239-4567-45dd-85ce-db32f7133415

[Addendum]

I dont like Vick at all but itll be kind of ******** if hes not reinstated. I wonder whered go; maybe San Fran.

Vick will more than likely get reinstated. But once the reinstatement happens doesn't mean that a team has to make a trade with the Falcons for him, or buy out his contract with the Falcons.

[Immortalfire]

When are we gonna see a cold weather Superbowl? NFL needs to stop *****ing and complaining about it. I mean they are moving to London before a venue like New York... or Lambeau??? Give me a break. We need a cold weather game one of these days. Build some extra luxury boxes for the fat cats flying in from the south if they have to.

If they won't come to Atlanta because the weather is "uncertain", was the word they used..even though it's a dome, you will go to your grave without ever seeing a snowy Super Bowl.

[Go Web Go!]

I would think Vick would goto Florida... either JAX or MIA

Miami? Pff. Not while Parcells is in charge (and preferably never)

[RAMORE]

It kills me that some people still don't think Vick should be allowed back. He did his time and lost everything for less than other players who got a smack on the wrist. I would want him on my team. I would love the bucs to pick him up.

[Immortalfire]

I wish the media would lay off referring to him as "the suspended Falcons star" :whatever:

Most things concerned, he ain't a Falcon anymore.

[BlackLantern]

It kills me that some people still don't think Vick should be allowed back. He did his time and lost everything for less than other players who got a smack on the wrist. I would want him on my team. I would love the bucs to pick him up.

Different regime in the NFL....if Tagliabue was still commish, Vick would be in a mini camp somewhere already

Goodell has said he needs to see that Vick is truly remorseful for what he did and I think he might do a good job of convincing Goodell, but he'll never truly believe he did anything wrong...dog fighting is just a part of the culture with some people, they don't see anything wrong with it

[SurfDUI]

7's biggest challenge will be which team is willing not only take him but who's going to realign there offensive philosopy to suit his play. He ain't as fast, but if he wants to play his accuracy needs to improve substantially and sustain that. No more skipping reads and progressions to haul ass to the endzone.

Then u can worry bout the protestors. I hope he keeps his #.

[Erzengel]

Different regime in the NFL....if Tagliabue was still commish, Vick would be in a mini camp somewhere already

Goodell has said he needs to see that Vick is truly remorseful for what he did and I think he might do a good job of convincing Goodell, but he'll never truly believe he did anything wrong...dog fighting is just a part of the culture with some people, they don't see anything wrong with it

What do you mean "some" people? :cmad:

[ih8nyy]

It kills me that some people still don't think Vick should be allowed back. He did his time and lost everything for less than other players who got a smack on the wrist. I would want him on my team. I would love the bucs to pick him up.

Agreed. He paid the stiffest penalty for anyone ever convicted of animal cruelty. They made an example out of him and he deserves another shot now that he served his time.

I mean good God, they have given Pac-Man Jones how many chances? He was responsible for putting a guy in a wheel chair for the love of God.

[BlackLantern]

What do you mean "some" people? :cmad:

There are people that grew up in a place where dog fighting is just another part of life.....so on a fundamental level, they don't see anything wrong with it

[ih8nyy]

There are people that grew up in a place where dog fighting is just another part of life.....so on a fundamental level, they don't see anything wrong with it

Kind of like cockfighting in the Dominican Republic.

[StorminNorman]

If they won't come to Atlanta because the weather is "uncertain", was the word they used..even though it's a dome, you will go to your grave without ever seeing a snowy Super Bowl.

The Super Bowl has been in Atlanta several times. It was in Detroit not too long ago either.

I wish the media would lay off referring to him as "the suspended Falcons star" :whatever:

Most things concerned, he ain't a Falcon anymore.

But Mike Vick is...still a Falcon. :huh: Also, he was the face of not simply the team, but the city for years.

[Excel]

Vicks a Falcon until they get rid of him.

[Alex The Great]

Vick should have his testicles sliced off in a terrible cotton swab factory incident.

Anywho, I wish a Superbowl would be held in Green Bay. Nothings Better than football in crap weather :up:

[StorminNorman]

Sure there is - football you can enjoy.

People that watch the Super Bowl on TV naturally have no problem with it being up north - but it's not just about the TV audience...it's about the live audience. The Super Bowl is as much an event as it is a game - and there is nothing wrong with that. There is no other reason to pretend otherwise.

[Excel]

It only makes sense to do it at a place with nice wetahe ryear round (unless its Gillette :up:); I sure as hell wouldnt want the weather deciding the game.

[StorminNorman]

According to beat writer Jerry McDonald, JaMarcus Russell's passing performance at Wednesday's OTA was "awful."
Coach Tom Cable blamed Russell's woeful accuracy on the "newness of the passing game," which will incorporate more vertical plays. One would expect Russell to flourish in that system because of his big arm, but he threw multiple interceptions and nearly had one picked in the red zone. And this is non-contact work. It's not been a promising offseason for Russell so far.
-ROTOWORLD

As far as "weather deciding the game", I personally don't buy into it. If a team can't beat another team in a certain climate - they aren't the better team.

[The Game]

Yes, Vick is free let the man play the game

[BlackLantern]

According to beat writer Jerry McDonald, JaMarcus Russell's passing performance at Wednesday's OTA was "awful."
Coach Tom Cable blamed Russell's woeful accuracy on the "newness of the passing game," which will incorporate more vertical plays. One would expect Russell to flourish in that system because of his big arm, but he threw multiple interceptions and nearly had one picked in the red zone. And this is non-contact work. It's not been a promising offseason for Russell so far.
-ROTOWORLD

As far as "weather deciding the game", I personally don't buy into it. If a team can't beat another team in a certain climate - they aren't the better team.

JaMarcus just needs another burger

[Dr. Evil]

JaMarcus just needs another burger

Garcia will take his spot soon, if he hasn't already.

And if Vick comes back, it won't be at QB.

[StorminNorman]

Why not? There are not 64 QB's in the NFL better than Mike Vick.

There probably aren't 32 QB's in the NFL better than Mike Vick.

[Dr. Evil]

Why not? There are not 64 QB's in the NFL better than Mike Vick.

There probably aren't 32 QB's in the NFL better than Mike Vick.

There are three who are better then Vick: Brees, Manning (Peyton) and Brady.

Meh, his career completion percentage was at 53%.

[Excel]

Percentage pershmentage; the guy was 2nd in MVP voting a few years ago and lead is team to playoffs.

[simplysuperhero]

I can see Jerry Jones trying to get Vick. To become a Cowboy these days you have to get arrested first.

Wherever Vick will go so will the PETA protesters.

[Wiseman]

There are three who are better then Vick: Brees, Manning (Peyton) and Brady.

Meh, his career completion percentage was at 53%.

There are more like 20 who are better then Vick, and 2 years is a long time to be away

[StorminNorman]

There are three who are better then Vick: Brees, Manning (Peyton) and Brady.

K...? :huh: What exactly are you getting at? That Michael Vick isn't the best QB in the league? Yea, and the sky is blue.

Meh, his career completion percentage was at 53%.

What's more important stats or wins? The guy won games, many times almost single handedly.

Percentage pershmentage; the guy was 2nd in MVP voting a few years ago and lead is team to playoffs.

Bingo. He defeated Favre at Lambo before anyone else did. He took the Falcons, a team with no real WR, to the playoffs several times and, more importantly, made them relevant.

I can see Jerry Jones trying to get Vick. To become a Cowboy these days you have to get arrested first.

Wherever Vick will go so will the PETA protesters.

...:huh:

Did we suddenly go back in time? Is it 2008 again?

There are more like 20 who are better then Vick, and 2 years is a long time to be away

K...so 20 QB's are better than Michael Vick. That means there are at least 12 teams with QB's worse than Michael Vick, at least 12 teams who could benefit from having Michael Vick on their team.

[Immortalfire]

It's scary that there are still people around here, that think he's coming back to the Falcons. No, I'm not making it up...I have seen them, they think all Matt Ryan is doing is being temporary stand in. Even after Arthur Blank has come right out and said "He's not coming back".

Lunatics. :whatever:

[StorminNorman]

It's almost as ridiculous as people thinking New Mexico is a country.

[Cmill216]

If you can get Vick for a 7th round pick, you take that deal. Distractions, my ass.

[BlackLantern]

If you can get Vick for a 7th round pick, you take that deal. Distractions, my ass.

It's more than that for any team that takes on Michael Vick....bad publicity can lead into sponsors dropping out and can also lead to protests outside your stadium which can lead into less people turning out for games

[StorminNorman]

The Humaine Society wants to work with Vick. That is going to negate any possibility of sponsors dropping a team that takes him.

If you care about the Dog Fighting issue, you want Mike Vick on your team. His entire life was ruined because of the sport - you want that example to be seen by everyone.

[StorminNorman]

I have a bad feeling New England will end up with Mike Vick because Belicheck may really be just that much smarter than everyone else.

[Excel]

Im sure there are dozens of teams secretly considering him; everybody loves a comeback. He never seemed like a bad guy; if he comes out remorseful and ashamed and sincere, he will be forgiven.

[Venom'sDad]

^ True

[SurfDUI]

....bad publicity can lead into sponsors dropping out and can also lead to protests outside your stadium which can lead into less people turning out for games

Vick has to find a spot first, It might take a while for that to happen.

I don't know, 'this is the NFL bay-buh' Arguably the biggest entertainment entity on the planet. Can a few dozen protesters shake up season ticket holders devotion to there team...they might try, but...

[BlackLantern]

part of me thinks its best to let sleeping dogs lie...no pun intended...the NFL has done fine minus the presence of Michael Vick....

[Cunning Stunts]

I have a bad feeling New England will end up with Mike Vick because Belicheck may really be just that much smarter than everyone else.

Sign him as a WR. :hehe:

[StorminNorman]

part of me thinks its best to let sleeping dogs lie...no pun intended...the NFL has done fine minus the presence of Michael Vick....

I think the NFL needs to allow Michael Vick to play in this league. It needs that for PR purposes and, honestly, to maintain credibility.

Now no NFL team has to sign him, but the NFL gains from Michael Vick coming back.

[Excel]

They need to bring Vick to show their system for improving players caracter works.

[StorminNorman]

They need to bring Vick to show their system for improving players caracter works.

Exactly. They need to bring Vick to show they care more about their players than simply headlines and media stories. Vick needs the NFL, the NFL should be willing to give him a second chance.

Vick's no saint - but he was punished for being an NFL star during his trial. He received the largest sentence ever for the crime and many of his conspirators were free men after turning on Vick.

[BlackLantern]

Exactly. They need to bring Vick to show they care more about their players than simply headlines and media stories. Vick needs the NFL, the NFL should be willing to give him a second chance.

Vick's no saint - but he was punished for being an NFL star during his trial. He received the largest sentence ever for the crime and many of his conspirators were free men after turning on Vick.

They cut deals....it's the system, it sucks...but that's how it is. The NFL shouldn't have to hand hold its players either...HS and college are supposed to do that "character building" part. The NFL is a place of employment (a very public one) and you should have your **** together before you get there. The rookies have a very comprehensive "Do's and don'ts" program, mentoring with veteran players...they are given more than enough to know what they should and shouldn't be doing as NFL players.

[Dr. Evil]

If anyone can keep Vick out of trouble it's Belichick.

[StorminNorman]

They cut deals....it's the system, it sucks...but that's how it is.

Conspirators in murder don't typically walk free. If Vick's crimes are as heinous, as terrible, as inexcusable as people make them out to be (and I believe they are), the others should have been punished as well. Instead the trial was not about Dog Fighting - it was about punishing Michael Vick.

The NFL shouldn't have to hand hold its players either...HS and college are supposed to do that "character building" part. The NFL is a place of employment (a very public one) and you should have your **** together before you get there. The rookies have a very comprehensive "Do's and don'ts" program, mentoring with veteran players...they are given more than enough to know what they should and shouldn't be doing as NFL players.

You act as if the NFL would be doing Vick a good deed by letting him in, that's not the case. The NFL benefits from Vick being in the league just as Vick benefits from being in the league. Vick is a star. He is exciting. He makes people interested.

Again, the NFL would lose credibility by picking and choosing the players they gang up based on public pressure. Vick has been out of the league two years, thats longer than Pac Man, that's longer than Leonard Little, that's longer than any of the big name thugs we have seen. They need to stay consistent.

[StorminNorman]

If anyone can keep Vick out of trouble it's Belichick.

Or Marvin Lewis.

[SurfDUI]

If anyone can keep Vick out of trouble it's Belichick.

Belichick ain't nobody- John Wooden he aint'.
and there is no Randy Moss analogy here, Moss isn't T.O. and he sure wasn't Vick. He was always a team player and one of the best in the game. I don't belive the 'rules' are any different in New England vs. the COLTS vs. the Cowgirls. It's about enforcement.

Character issues are MAN issues, like BL said, this is a place of employment. Vick went to federal prison to 1 pay for his crimes, 2 to learn from it. NOW it's his hope that he gets to work again in the same capacity that he did before he left...which is still the athlete working in his favor. Let Surfer beat a dogsass, I'll be finding a different profession.

[BlackLantern]

You act as if the NFL would be doing Vick a good deed by letting him in, that's not the case. The NFL benefits from Vick being in the league just as Vick benefits from being in the league. Vick is a star. He is exciting. He makes people interested.

Again, the NFL would lose credibility by picking and choosing the players they gang up based on public pressure. Vick has been out of the league two years, thats longer than Pac Man, that's longer than Leonard Little, that's longer than any of the big name thugs we have seen. They need to stay consistent.

Different commissioner behind the desk....when Tagliabue was there, an NFL player could have killed a stripper during training camp and only been suspended 3 games (if that):oldrazz:

I'm all for setting a precedent and being consistent when it comes to player/personnel discipline...if anything I hope that everyone sees what has happened to Mr. Vick and takes the point

[StorminNorman]

Wait...Moss was always a team player? He wasn't a T.O.? The dude regularly took plays off! He left a game early!

I would rather have T.O. in my locker room than Randy Moss pre-New England.

[StorminNorman]

Different commissioner behind the desk....when Tagliabue was there, an NFL player could have killed a stripper during training camp and only been suspended 3 games (if that):oldrazz:

I'm all for setting a precedent and being consistent when it comes to player/personnel discipline...if anything I hope that everyone sees what has happened to Mr. Vick and takes the point

Pac Man wasn't.

I don't know how anyone at all, from any walk of life, from any neighborhood or any community can look at Michael Vick and then think it is a good idea to fight dogs. Few people will ever be as fortunate as Michael Vick was at the hight of his career - he owned a football team, he owned a city, he owned a sport. And even he could be destroyed by those actions.

[BlackLantern]

Pac Man wasn't.

I don't know how anyone at all, from any walk of life, from any neighborhood or any community can look at Michael Vick and then think it is a good idea to fight dogs. Few people will ever be as fortunate as Michael Vick was at the hight of his career - he owned a football team, he owned a city, he owned a sport. And even he could be destroyed by those actions.

Because anyone that does fight dogs:

1. doesn't believe that there is anything wrong with it

2. doesn't think they'll ever be caught

When I first heard the term 'rape stand' I wanted to punch a hole in my TV

[SurfDUI]

Wait...Moss was always a team player?

I wouldn't let 2 cut my grass..

Randy in the past has not ran a route at full speed at times. O.K.
but he's still nearly single handidly got the Vikings to the Championship game. Still holds wide out records in Minn. and for the position. and N.E. wouldn't have got David Tyree'd nearly lossless without his production. And I've seen him take off in his N.E. stay.

I don't know why Moss gets the hate, he's the best weapon in the game, and he only gets that over Reggie Waynehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/Drakon/SHH/spoiler.gif:hehe: cause of the height.

[Excel]

Vick wont need Bill to teach him whats up, this guy has been in JAIL, and had a clean history before this incident where he essentially got ****ed over by still chilling with his homies from the ghetto when he was younger (they ran the dog fighting for the most part, and are the ones who instantly turned on him). If anybody really thinks Mike Vick is gonna misbehave once he gets back into the NFL...I dunno what to say, except Id say odda are about 100000000 to 1 against you.

I wouldn't let 2 cut my grass..

Randy in the past has not ran a route at full speed at times. O.K.
but he's still nearly single handidly got the Vikings to the Championship game. Still holds wide out records in Minn. and for the position. and N.E. wouldn't have got David Tyree'd nearly lossless without his production. And I've seen him take off in his N.E. stay.

I don't know why Moss gets the hate, he's the best weapon in the game, and he only gets that over Reggie Waynehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/Drakon/SHH/spoiler.gif:hehe: cause of the height.

Word, and realy, EVERY wr in the game takes place off because if not, they would be incredibly gassed by the 3rd q, espec. Moss. who almost always runs deep routes, even if half of them are dummy routes or not. Doing a full speed 50 yard sprint every other play with Moss would be idiotic.

The whole idea behind it is it does 2 things.
1. Gives Moss an advantage on unsuspecting db's who think he is just doing another dummy route on stunts or play actions bombs.
2. Lets Randy catch his breathe so when he the play is actually to him, hes ready to go.

Granted, back when he was a rook Moss had a seemingly endless supply of energy which he doesnt have now, but its unfair to get on his back over things like that.

[Excel]

I would rather have T.O. in my locker room than Randy Moss pre-New England.

I think the T.O. hate right now is ridiculousy overrated, but that doesnt make any sense. From literally every account Moss never problems with teams AT ALL...Owens time in San Fran and Phily really speaks for itself. Both have matured alot imo, however Owens back in the day was MUCH worse than Moss, I dont see thats even arguable. Owens was calling his QB gay or throwing them under the bus, starting fist fights in the locker room...I cant think of a specific time Moss ever had a problem with anybody on his team, his stuff was always away from the field ala squirting a (terrible) ref with a water bottle (:lmao:) and driving with a meter maid on his car (:dry:) but those things are more "dumb" than "team destroying"...I think Moss's record in terms of success really speaks for itself if your gonna talk about how they fit in with team chemistry.

The one season Moss was truly out of his element was 2006, and the entire team was...cannot say the same for Owens on the multiple seasons hes been that way.

[BlackLantern]

TO is now in Buffalo...that's punishment enough...for the first time in his career he is not on a marquis team and will learn how the other half lives

[Dr. Evil]

49ers sign CB Dre Bly

[Excel]

TO is now in Buffalo...that's punishment enough...for the first time in his career he is not on a marquis team and will learn how the other half lives

That Im not so sure about either.

[NewYorkSpider]

If Trent Edwards plays like he did in the first 5 games last season, the Bills WILL make the playoffs.

[Kaiser]

Or Marvin Lewis.

I know this is a joke but there is a fill in sports talk show host here that wants the Bengals to sign him.... The guy is a total tool and says some of the dumbest things.

[Excel]

If Trent Edwards plays like he did in the first 5 games last season, the Bills WILL make the playoffs.

Owens-Evans combo is honestly a top 5 wr combo; no doubt itll oen things up for Marshawn and Jackson...Buffalo will be a fun team to watch this season, no doubt about it.

[StorminNorman]

Because anyone that does fight dogs:

1. doesn't believe that there is anything wrong with it

2. doesn't think they'll ever be caught

When I first heard the term 'rape stand' I wanted to punch a hole in my TV

Was that the belief before Mike Vick? Absolutely.

Now though? I really am not sure. Again, I think the fall of Michael Vick would have to be a gigantic wakeup call to anyone in the industry.

[BlackLantern]

watching Real Sports this morning...saw an interesting piece on the new head of the NFLPA, DeMaurice Smith....interesting stuff...didn't know he was a United States Attorney and a Washington power broker....he's a fan though, which is different

[Caped Crusader]

Get better Shockey.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/05/24/jeremy-shockey-hospital/

[Alex The Great]

God I hope Vick stays out of the NFL, that ****er did **** that's disgusting and cruel. The NFL may be the No fun league, but it's also the No **** allowed league. Beat his ass, hammer :cmad:

[Wiseman]

God I hope Vick stays out of the NFL, that ****er did **** that's disgusting and cruel. The NFL may be the No fun league, but it's also the No **** allowed league. Beat his ass, hammer :cmad:

I hope Vick comes back and plays on your favorite team.

[Cunning Stunts]

Really, why should he not be allowed? I understand that football players often become role models for children, and I absolutely detest what he did, but the dude served his time and has been dealt his punishment. Why should we keep punishing him and keep punishing him? He's been out of the league two years now- due to jail time, no less- let him work his own way back in. I'm an animal lover, especially of dogs (I have four of my own), but Vick has been accused, tried, and sentenced. He's finished with his sentence now, let him get past it.

Seriously, how would you feel if you'd been arrested for statutory rape or some other sex crime, and you got insults and punishment everywhere you went? You wouldn't say to yourself, "I deserve that," you'd say, "I've faced my punishment, I'm not going to do it again, let it go." As cruel of an act as he's committed, he's still human, and we have to empathize at least a little.

[StorminNorman]

I would rather have Michael Vick on my team, a man that served his debt to society, than Pac Man Jones.

[Cunning Stunts]

Seriously, especially since Pac Man has proven he's much more of a detriment to his actual teammates than Vick ever was.

[Cunning Stunts]

Being an avid Steelers fan, I have to admit...

I know the Steelers organization is probably one of the most character-driven teams in the NFL in terms of personnel and decision making (I.e., they're very strict on their players not being douchebags or distractions, and they get rid of those who become one, no matter how good he might be, like Plaxico Burress and Joey Porter)... With that said, I think it'd be a great triumph and lesson for Michael Vick to join the Steelers organization. I think a team like that could keep him in line and force him to keep his act straight (Mike Tomlin, especially, seems like an all-business, take-no-**** type of coach).

In addition that, what made the Steelers so exciting to watch during their Super Bowl XL run and performance was their dynamic trick plays- usually using Antwaan Randle El. I think Mike Vick would absolutely flourish in this way, and I'd like to see the Steelers bring in someone who can bring that element back to as much use as it was back when they won Super Bowl XL.

Just an idea. :up:

[Dark Donnie]

Anquan Boldin-WR-Cardinals May. 26 - 2:16 pm et

Anquan Boldin has fired agent Drew Rosenhaus, according to ESPN's Mike Sando.

We usually hear about players switching to Rosenhaus, not away from him. Boldin is displeased with the progress of his trade demand and contract talks. Rosenhaus said in a statement that he wants to keep Boldin and hopes that Q "can return to the Rosenhaus Sports family in the near future."
Source: ESPN.com

[Go Web Go!]

Ha!

[Mister J]

Drew, how do feel about this?
Next question!

[Wiseman]

I hate Drew Rosenhaus, he's like a cross between jay mariotti and the villian from billy madison

[Go Web Go!]

I hate Drew Rosenhaus, he's like a cross between jay mariotti and the villian from billy madison

:hehe:

"Eric is pregnant!"

[Alex The Great]

A part of me wants The Patriots to get Vick, The Hood would give him all types of hell, plus Tom Brady is probably going to be not as good as usual early in the season. If Tom gets injured, They are screwed. They don't have any good backups...

[BlackLantern]

Really, why should he not be allowed? I understand that football players often become role models for children, and I absolutely detest what he did, but the dude served his time and has been dealt his punishment. Why should we keep punishing him and keep punishing him? He's been out of the league two years now- due to jail time, no less- let him work his own way back in. I'm an animal lover, especially of dogs (I have four of my own), but Vick has been accused, tried, and sentenced. He's finished with his sentence now, let him get past it.

Seriously, how would you feel if you'd been arrested for statutory rape or some other sex crime, and you got insults and punishment everywhere you went? You wouldn't say to yourself, "I deserve that," you'd say, "I've faced my punishment, I'm not going to do it again, let it go." As cruel of an act as he's committed, he's still human, and we have to empathize at least a little.

**** no we don't....Ive never bankrolled and provided facilities for a criminal enterprise...nothing would make me happier if Vick spent the rest of his days chained to a desk for 40 hrs a week...Im not saying he shouldn't make a living, but he should not be allowed the privilege of making an extravagant paycheck

[Mister J]

In Rosenhaus' defense, I'd like to list some of his good points that might change public opinion here:

he enjoys collecting superhero figs/statues (I think a number of us can identify)
he's never represented Brett Favre

... that's all I got.

[Mister J]

A part of me wants The Patriots to get Vick, The Hood would give him all types of hell, plus Tom Brady is probably going to be not as good as usual early in the season. If Tom gets injured, They are screwed. They don't have any good backups...
How would signing Vick change that? :o

[Wiseman]

In Rosenhaus' defense, I'd like to list some of his good points that might change public opinion here:

he enjoys collecting superhero figs/statues (I think a number of us can identify)
he's never represented Brett Favre

... that's all I got.

Yeah well Brett Favre is only one annoying football player. Rosenhaus represents T.O., Ocho Cinco, Plaxico Burress and any other problem player you can think off so that negates it I'd think. Plus everytime he's on tv something about his face makes me want to punch him........like, really hard

[BlackLantern]

you're all mad at someone, that 99.9 percent of the time, is really good at his job

[StorminNorman]

**** no we don't....Ive never bankrolled and provided facilities for a criminal enterprise...nothing would make me happier if Vick spent the rest of his days chained to a desk for 40 hrs a week...Im not saying he shouldn't make a living, but he should not be allowed the privilege of making an extravagant paycheck

He shouldn't be allowed the privilege of risking his health and his future entertaining millions of fans for an owner that will make more money from Vick than he will ever pay him?

That privilege?

On Q dumping Rosenhaus, good move by Q. Q has said he would accept a contract under 10 Mil a year, the Arizona Cardinals offered Rosenhaus an offer worth 8 Mil a year at least twice, even though Rosenhaus has said Arizona has not made any reasonable offer. I expect this move will mean Q will get his contract in Arizona soon.

[Wiseman]

you're all mad at someone, that 99.9 percent of the time, is really good at his job

I'm not mad at him, I just don't like him. There's a difference

[Cunning Stunts]

**** no we don't....Ive never bankrolled and provided facilities for a criminal enterprise...nothing would make me happier if Vick spent the rest of his days chained to a desk for 40 hrs a week...Im not saying he shouldn't make a living, but he should not be allowed the privilege of making an extravagant paycheck

My point is though, while at first I was quick to want to think the same way, you've got to realize that the dude has paid his dues. Honestly, how would you feel if you've legitimately made a change in your life after being punished for doing something wrong, and people still held it against you every single place you go. Again, I'd have to go with the 99.99% chance that you wouldn't say, "I deserve it," you'd say, "I've changed, let it go." There was also no clause in his contract that said, "Don't kill dogs," so I don't see why the NFL should get involved for any reason other than the fact that he was in trouble with the law (which likely is in his contract)- not why he had a run-in with the law- and he should be punished accordingly along with the other players who have had run-ins with the law.

That said, why can't these past two years be punishment enough for him? Not only did he miss thirty-two games of potential playing time, he also had to sit in jail. As much of a douchebag as I think he is for doing such a despicable thing, he's paid his debt to the community, and still plans on helping out the Humane Society. He's doing his work to redeem himself, so let the guy play.

[BlackLantern]

The NFL has a personal conduct policy and the NFL is acting accordingly, they are reserving any action until all the legal issues are resolved and that's the correct thing to do

The Humane Society crap is a smokescreen, way deep down Vick doesn't really believe he did anything wrong....he is just going to go through the motions (apologize, do a PSA, etc) because he got caught

[Cunning Stunts]

Can you prove that, though? We have no other option than to take what he says or does at its face value until he proves otherwise.

I stated clearly I know they have a conduct policy, but I sincerely doubt that they have a list of suspensions according to their exact crimes- most likely, it's more along the lines of, "Run-in with the law: _ games; Conviction _ games; etc."

[StorminNorman]

The NFL has a personal conduct policy and the NFL is acting accordingly, they are reserving any action until all the legal issues are resolved and that's the correct thing to do

The legal issues are resolved...he is out of prison.

The Humane Society crap is a smokescreen, way deep down Vick doesn't really believe he did anything wrong....he is just going to go through the motions (apologize, do a PSA, etc) because he got caught

I disagree. I think Vick has changed, or at least will give him this benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

[Dark Donnie]

The legal issues are resolved...he is out of
They're not over, he's still under house arrest. After that is when they will decide.

[BlackLantern]

I don't do 'benefit of the doubt' when it comes to any public figure....especially in this case, I don't understand why people would

call me a hardass, but the NFL should be harsher if a player is convicted of a felony

[Dark Donnie]

^^^I agree, the crimes he commited are terrible.

Not only dog fighting, kidnapping local neighborhood dogs and having them engage in these dog fights. Guy is a pretty sick individual.

[BlackLantern]

They're not over, he's still under house arrest. After that is when they will decide.

House arrest and Im not sure if there will be some sort of probation after that....the NFL wants to make sure all of it is completed before they even make a statement about it

[StorminNorman]

They're not over, he's still under house arrest. After that is when they will decide.

He has 2 months of House Arrest, but after that it's done. He would have served his time. It's not like there is still the possibility of him going back to jail or whatever.

I don't do 'benefit of the doubt' when it comes to any public figure....especially in this case, I don't understand why people would

Why not?

call me a hardass, but the NFL should be harsher if a player is convicted of a felony

I the NFL should do whats best for the NFL. In my opinion, I believe that means Vick plays.

^^^I agree, the crimes he commited are terrible.

Not only dog fighting, kidnapping local neighborhood dogs and having them engage in these dog fights. Guy is a pretty sick individual.

The dude has also served his debt to society.

[Dark Donnie]

The dude has also served his debt to society.
But, he still hasn't been penalized by the NFL

[StorminNorman]

But, he still hasn't been penalized by the NFL

He's been suspended from playing football for 2 years. :huh:

[Addendum]

I would rather have Michael Vick on my team, a man that served his debt to society, than Pac Man Jones.

I'd rather have neither

[Dark Donnie]

He's been suspended from playing football for 2 years. :huh:

:huh: He was in prison over that time, thats not really the same thing. I don't see Goddell as the type of guy that would allow him to have his suspension run concurrent with his jail sentence. They're seperate matters.

Plus Vick lied to him about his involvement.

[StorminNorman]

:huh: He was in prison over that time, thats not really the same thing.

Sure it is. A suspension is a suspension. Vick has been punished by the league. He has served 2 years of a suspension, a full year more than that of Pac Man Jones. He has lost millions of dollars.

Vick has served his debt to society and the League.

[Excel]

Vicks been the most seriously punished of all the Hammer victims, its time to let him back in.

[Dark Donnie]

Being suspended from the NFL when your serving a jail sentence at the same time isn't the same thing. He had no option of playing because he was in jail.

[Darthphere]

I think you're being ridiculous. Lets put it this way, if Michael Vick never served a day in prison, he probably would have been suspended for a year minimum anyway. Being in jail is being suspended. There is nothing else to debate here.

[Dark Donnie]

ESPN Power Rankings

2009 Power Rankings: Offseason
RK (LW) TEAM REC COMMENT
1 (3) Steelers 12-4-0 With 20-of-22 starters returning, the Steelers could chase "dynasty" status. (JW) Draft

2 (9) Patriots 11-5-0 Until further notice, a team coached by Bill Belichick and quarterbacked by Tom Brady is a legitimate Super Bowl contender. (TG) Draft

3 (2) Giants 12-4-0 Top to bottom, not a lot of holes on this team. Can they replace Plaxico Burress' presence on the field? I think so. (MM)Draft

4 (11) Eagles 9-6-1 With the additions of Jeremy Maclin, Jason Peters and LeSean McCoy, this should be one of the top offenses. (MM) Draft

5 (5) Colts 12-4-0 Donald Brown should provide a nice boost. But without Tony Dungy and with two top assistants in limbo for at least awhile, do things stay stable? (PK) Draft

6 (6) Ravens 11-5-0 Second-year QB Joe Flacco looks great this offseason. As long as LB Ray Lewis keeps Baltimore's defense elite, this team will be a force once again. (JW) Draft

7 (12) Chargers 8-8-0 The Chargers became the dangerous team we all expected late in the season. This can be an elite team. (BW) Draft

8 (1) Titans 13-3-0 A deep team lost a defensive star and a defensive coordinator and has a tougher schedule, but should still be playoff-caliber. (PK) Draft

9 (13) Cardinals 9-7-0 The next challenge for the Cardinals is showing more consistency throughout the season, not just in the playoffs. (MS) Draft

10 (4) Panthers 12-4-0 They basically haven't done anything this offseason, but the Panthers have 21 starters back from a 12-4 season. (PY)) Draft

11 (7) Falcons 11-5-0 Tony Gonzalez elevates the offense. A little defense could make the Falcons complete. (PY) Draft

12 (15) Bears 9-7-0 The addition of Jay Cutler gives the Bears the early advantage in the NFC North. (KS) Draft

13 (14) Cowboys 9-7-0 I think the offense will be better off without T.O. Maybe this team will peak late in the season. (MM) Draft

14 (10) Vikings 10-6-0 Subject to change based on the Vikings' pursuit of Brett Favre. Without him, they have the same major question -- quarterback. (KS) Draft

15 (8) Dolphins 11-5-0 An encore performance will be difficult, but under-the-radar moves made them better on defense and on the offensive line. (TG) Draft

16 (19) Saints 8-8-0 If the defense can be just average, the Saints will be in the playoffs. (PY) Draft

17 (24) Packers 6-10-0 The 3-4 defense could take some time to perfect, but addressing the scheme was a must. (KS) Draft

18 (18) Texans 8-8-0 A popular pick as a breakout team, they'll need to improve defensively and handle unfamiliar expectations. (PK) Draft

19 (21) Redskins 8-8-0 How much impact will Albert Haynesworth have and how will Jason Campbell respond to an awkward offseason? (MM) Draft

20 (17) Jets 9-7-0 Rex Ryan's defense is shaping up to be entertaining, but their QB situation and receiver corps are enormous question marks. (TG) Draft

21 (23) Bills 7-9-0 The Terrell Owens signing has escalated the excitement level in Buffalo, but the O-line is a huge question mark. (TG) Draft

22 (28) Seahawks 4-12-0 Waiting to see how Matt Hasselbeck, Walter Jones and Patrick Kerney hold up through training camp. (MS) Draft

23 (27) Bengals 4-11-1 With QB Carson Palmer (elbow) returning and a sneaky good defense, the Bengals have sleeper potential. (JW) Draft

24 (25) Jaguars 5-11-0 If the top two draft picks are solid and the offensive line is healthy, the running game can key improvement. (PK) Draft

25 (22) Broncos 8-8-0 The Broncos have to show they can win with Kyle Orton and with a rebuilding defense. (BW) Draft

26 (20) 49ers 7-9-0 Shaun Hill's 7-3 record as the 49ers' starter gives him the edge in QB competition.(MS) Draft

27 (16) Buccaneers 9-7-0 New coach Raheem Morris takes over a team with one huge question: Who's the QB? (PY) Draft

28 (29) Browns 4-12-0 The first year under coach Eric Mangini could be a rough one, especially if he cannot settle on a QB. (JW) Draft

29 (30) Chiefs 2-14-0 The Chiefs have improved in some areas but there are still a lot of questions about this team. (BW) Draft

30 (26) Raiders 5-11-0 It's all about whether the youngsters can turn the corner in Oakland. (BW) Draft

31 (31) Rams 2-14-0 Rams need time to develop talent after roster purge made them among NFL's youngest almost overnight. (MS) Draft

32 (32) Lions 0-16-0 The Lions made progress this offseason but had nowhere to go but up. (KS) Draft

[BlackLantern]

this all started in the off season, by time the season started he was in jail if im not mistaken....did the NFL officially suspend him??

[Dark Donnie]

I think you're being ridiculous. Lets put it this way, if Michael Vick never served a day in prison, he probably would have been suspended for a year minimum anyway.Being in jail is being suspended. There is nothing else to debate here.

Well I don't agree the two are hand and hand.


I guess we'll see in two months

[Excel]

I got some time today; Ill do breakout player picks in a bit.

Btw GREAT to see Tom out there throwing.

[Cunning Stunts]

I think you're being ridiculous. Lets put it this way, if Michael Vick never served a day in prison, he probably would have been suspended for a year minimum anyway. Being in jail is being suspended. There is nothing else to debate here.

QFT. :up:

Trying to penalize the guy even more is just cruel. Again, put yourself in his shoes. If you slaughtered a couple of animals (which, again, I detest, as an animal lover), and you served your time in prison, wouldn't you say, "Look, I've paid my debt, let my life return to normal"? I'd guarantee 99.99% of us wouldn't say, "I deserve that, I'll go work at McDonald's for another year.

It's pretty ignorant not to empathize with a human being. Sure, what he did is disgusting, but he's still human. He's paid his dues, he's giving back to society what he can. Let it go.

[Cmill216]

Solid early rankings. I'd put the Giants at 2, and move the Falcons up a bit.

[Cmill216]

I think you're being ridiculous. Lets put it this way, if Michael Vick never served a day in prison, he probably would have been suspended for a year minimum anyway. Being in jail is being suspended. There is nothing else to debate here.

You also have to look at the crime. This isn't something he's going to fall into again, unlike the cokeheads and DUI dummies of the world. So there should be no fear of repeated behavior.

[Cunning Stunts]

Solid early rankings. I'd put the Giants at 2, and move the Falcons up a bit.

Falcs and Vikes, easily. They're my "early picks" for the NFC Championship Game.

[BlackLantern]

QFT. :up:

Trying to penalize the guy even more is just cruel. Again, put yourself in his shoes. If you slaughtered a couple of animals (which, again, I detest, as an animal lover), and you served your time in prison, wouldn't you say, "Look, I've paid my debt, let my life return to normal"? I'd guarantee 99.99% of us wouldn't say, "I deserve that, I'll go work at McDonald's for another year.

It's pretty ignorant not to empathize with a human being. Sure, what he did is disgusting, but he's still human. He's paid his dues, he's giving back to society what he can. Let it go.

crimes that heinous are never truly paid for....he's been punished as much as the legal system can attest for....

I wouldn't say anything because I have the good sense to know that in our society today, serving prison time will always mark you....Im not saying he can't earn a living, but he shouldn't be in the NFL....he can rock a red Tshirt at Target and stock shelves, if its good enough for other Americans, its good enough for a convict

[Excel]

Pats are clear #1 with Steelers 2. Phily, Minnesota, and Atlanta round out my top 5.

[BlackLantern]

as for breakout players....back when the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan, when everyone was mad or dogging the Falcons for it, I was firmly behind the pick and felt that Matt Ryan was exactly what that team needed....so Ill just pick one breakout player for this season

[Cunning Stunts]

crimes that heinous are never truly paid for....he's been punished as much as the legal system can attest for....

I wouldn't say anything because I have the good sense to know that in our society today, serving prison time will always mark you....Im not saying he can't earn a living, but he shouldn't be in the NFL....he can rock a red Tshirt at Target and stock shelves, if its good enough for other Americans, its good enough for a convict

I disagree. Justice shouldn't be served to ruin someone's life, justice should be served to punish those who did something wrong. He served his punishment according to our laws, and while I do think he got off a tad easy, I don't think it's the NFL's place to punish him any more than suspending him for having trouble with the law. The NFL isn't the law, and I don't think they have the right to act as if they do, especially since what he did doesn't directly affect the NFL.