2009 NFL Thread [Archive] - Page 18 - The SuperHeroHype Forums

Addendum

07-23-2009, 12:17 PM

I'm just surprised Goodell have not suspended and drop the hammer on Big Ben.

Based on what? An allegation of rape in a civil suit even though:

1) No crime was reported
2) As a result, there was no criminal case if something happened
3) She waited an entire year
4) The Lake Tahoe police have said they are not opening a criminal investigation.

Accusation and allegation are not proof.

Venom'sDad

07-23-2009, 12:21 PM

Goodell have suspended players, proactively for simple allegation, less serious than an allegation of Rape. Come on.

BlackLantern

07-23-2009, 12:31 PM

Based on what? An allegation of rape in a civil suit even though:

1) No crime was reported
2) As a result, there was no criminal case if something happened
3) She waited an entire year
4) The Lake Tahoe police have said they are not opening a criminal investigation.

Accusation and allegation are not proof.

and to add...she never filed criminal charges, she is trying to file this as a civil suit for monetary damages...if Ben had a history of improper conduct towards women, then yes I could see The Hammer suspending him until it all clears up but this is out of the blue

Addendum

07-23-2009, 12:37 PM

Goodell have suspended players, proactively for simple allegation, less serious than an allegation of Rape. Come on.

Actually, 3 of them were specifically suspended after they either plead guilty or were found guilty of what they were charged with: Tank Johnson, Vick, Stallworth.

2 of them were suspended after multiple off-the-field incidents: Pacman, Chris Henry.

And then there were 2 people suspended for using HGH: Wade Wilson, Rodney Harrison.

So that's 7 people Goodell has suspended. And none of them were because of "simple allegation".

Kaleb

07-23-2009, 12:49 PM

Addendum

07-23-2009, 01:01 PM

I don't think anyone deserves a second chance. One has to earn it

BlackLantern

07-23-2009, 01:29 PM

Im proberbly one of the biggest critics of Vick on this board, but I say he deserves a chance , at least on the practice squad, however whatever team he signs with will have to put up with Peta picketing around their staduims during games.

Exactly and that can make sponsors and fans very, very nervous....if you look at any sport, sponsorsships get dropped at the drop of a hat

StorminNorman

07-23-2009, 04:24 PM

The hell with Vick. Reinstating Pacman Jones was a mistake. It shouldn't become an open door for all these pieces of crap to walk back in through.

Sure it should be. There is something to be said about forgiveness.

Burress is suspended from the NFL as we speak...Pacman got A chance and is now suspended...again....Dogfighting is a FEDERAL offense, and yes Vick has served his time, but is the PR nightmare worth having him back??

I don't believe Pacman is suspended. I think he simply didn't play well last year and is no longer seen as worth the risk.

Dr. Evil

07-23-2009, 05:46 PM

Vick and Goddell apparently met on Wednesday:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/07/23/vick.goodell/

According to multiple sources, the long-anticipated meeting between NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and suspended quarterback Michael Vick occurred on Wednesday afternoon at a small security firm in Allendale, N.J., where both men were seen leaving the premises separately.

Goodell earlier this week said he planned to rule on Vick's possible re-instatement to the NFL "sometime in the near future,'' but refused to specify any timetable. Both men were seen leaving the office of Buckley Petersen Global Inc. about 4 p.m. on Wednesday, one of the sources told SI.com. Multiple people in the surrounding area watched Vick and Goodell leave, the source said.

Contacted Thursday afternoon, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello declined to confirm or deny that Goodell and Vick met Wednesday saying, "We've been consistent about that throughout this process. We're not responding to any of the questions surrounding the review. Once a decision is made by the commissioner, then we'll make a statement.''

According to an eyewitness, Vick left the two-story office of Buckley Petersen Global Inc. first, hopping into a Cadillac Escalade with an entourage described as "huge.'' About 10 minutes later, Goodell was seen leaving the building and departing in a BMW that he was not driving. Vick was described as looking rather somber after the meeting, as was Goodell.

Vick served 23 months on a dogfighting conviction, but was released from home confinement on Monday, ending his sentence. With the majority of NFL training camps opening next week, Vick is hoping to have his league suspension lifted and then find a new team willing to sign him. But Goodell has said that before he made any decision regarding Vick's indefinite suspension, he wanted to meet with him and see remorse and evidence of change in his lifestyle and decision-making.

StorminNorman

07-23-2009, 05:51 PM

I think Vick showing up in a Cadillac Escalade with a huge posse was a bad idea for him, IMO.

Dr. Evil

07-23-2009, 05:52 PM

I think Vick showing up in a Cadillac Escalade with a huge posse was a bad idea for him, IMO.

Yeah, pretty much. He'll be in the UFL.

Dr. Evil

07-23-2009, 05:53 PM

Draft to expand to three days:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4351601

StorminNorman

07-23-2009, 05:58 PM

I love how the NFL draft is the most successful sports TV event in a month that contains the start of the MLB season and the NBA playoffs and instead of being happy with that...the NFL makes a bunch of changes that will piss off NFL fans.

I mean three days? REALLY?

Mister J

07-23-2009, 06:12 PM

According to an eyewitness, Vick left the two-story office of Buckley Petersen Global Inc. first, hopping into a Cadillac Escalade with an entourage described as "huge.''
Really? All the times that the Hammer talked about the necessity of remorse, contrition and being humbled and this fool decides to show up like he's about to hit up the club scene? :dry:

StorminNorman

07-23-2009, 06:16 PM

As a fan of Orlando UFL - this is music to my ears.

bunk

07-23-2009, 06:31 PM

Sure it should be. There is something to be said about forgiveness.

Doesn't bother me if the NFL forgives them. It bothers me when they reinstate them.

StorminNorman

07-23-2009, 06:34 PM

One cannot be had without the other.

Mister J

07-23-2009, 06:38 PM

Source: Vick Can Sign, Must Sit 4 Games (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4352034)
The anticipation and speculation can stop. Roger Goodell has reached a decision on Michael Vick.

The NFL commissioner has decided on a conditional reinstatement for the suspended quarterback that will allow Vick to attend training camp if he signs with a team, but will still suspend Vick for the first four games of the 2009 season, a source told ESPN's Sal Paolantonio.

Goodell is expected to the decision early next week, but is reserving judgement in the event of any further transgressions from Vick.

Earlier Thursday, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported that Vick and Goodell met Wednesday afternoon in Allendale, N.J., at a small security firm for three hours.

Vick -- once the NFL's highest-paid player -- was seeking reinstatement to the league after Goodell levied an indefinite suspension on the former All-Pro signal caller on Aug. 24, 2007. He was joined at the meeting by his legal and personal advisors.
I didn't think he'd get less than 8, if allowed back this season.

StorminNorman

07-23-2009, 06:44 PM

I don't understand suspending him for 4 games at all.

I mean the guy has already been suspended for 32 games - giving him another 4 is ridiculous.

Dr. Evil

07-23-2009, 07:06 PM

FaT_tONle

07-23-2009, 10:29 PM

Man the NFL just can't appease their die hard fans anymore. Just going for every ratings slot they can get a hold of now. No reason to make all these changes. The draft and virtually everything else is perfect as it is.

Dr. Evil

07-23-2009, 10:34 PM

Favre is conflicted about a return to the NFL:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4350876

If Favre doesn't play, it may be a long season in Minnesota.

Immortalfire

07-23-2009, 10:46 PM

Former ESPN NFL guy Sean Salisbury said on Tuesday on the radio locally in Dallas that if he was the GM of an NFL team, he would sign Vick. Salisbury said that he didn't give a damn about the backlash from PETA and says that NFL GM's should feel the same way.

GMs need to look more closely at his unimpressive stats, than flashy moves. Mainly in that he only threw a handful more touchdowns than he did interceptions, and his win-loss record is only separated by a few games. Plus, his lack of leadership skills is hard to ignore.

I didn't like him when he was here, and it would be a shame to see someone else put up with it.

Cunning Stunts

07-23-2009, 11:51 PM

He belongs in a Wildcat Offense or an offense that utilizes a lot of trick plays, like the Steelers used to have.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 12:07 AM

He took an offense whose biggest receiving threat was a TE into the NFC Championship. The guy can play QB.

NewYorkSpider

07-24-2009, 12:19 AM

GMs need to look more closely at his unimpressive stats, than flashy moves. Mainly in that he only threw a handful more touchdowns than he did interceptions, and his win-loss record is only separated by a few games. Plus, his lack of leadership skills is hard to ignore.

I didn't like him when he was here, and it would be a shame to see someone else put up with it.

I disagree. Yeah, the stats aren't where they should be, but Vick led the Falcons to two playoff appearances in 5 years. You could actually take off one year since he missed most of the season due to injury. He led them to victory at Lambeau Field, where the Packers had never lost a home game in history. The last two years of his stint in Atlanta, the Falcons had one of the worst defenses. If I'm a GM, and I'm not sold on my QB, I'm taking a chance. Teams like Jacksonville, Minnesota(if Favre doesn't come back) or Miami should take interest. What's a one year deal going to hurt?

Excel

07-24-2009, 12:25 AM

Uh yeah Vick was what, 2nd in the MVP voting 2 or 3 years ago? Anybody saying he cant-couldnt- play QB doesnt know whatthey are talking about.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 12:34 AM

Cunning Stunts

07-24-2009, 12:38 AM

Uh yeah Vick was what, 2nd in the MVP voting 2 or 3 years ago? Anybody saying he cant-couldnt- play QB doesnt know whatthey are talking about.

No, sir. He was a mediocre QB (and trying to argue otherwise with a 53.8 completion percentage probably means that YOU are the clueless one), with AMAZING talent that he could have utilized in other positions. The fact that he was lightning fast and a QB made it that much harder to catch him once he broke into a run, though.

I mean, really, 53.8 completion percentage, with a 71/52 TD/INT ratio? He's a great QB? ********. Great football player, just not a great QB, by any stretch.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 12:42 AM

The Falcons wouldn't be the Falcons without Vick.

The two most important Falcons in team history are Jamal Anderson and Michael Vick - not in that order.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 12:43 AM

No, sir. He was a mediocre QB (and trying to argue otherwise with a 53.8 completion percentage probably means that YOU are the clueless one), with AMAZING talent that he could have utilized in other positions. The fact that he was lightning fast and a QB made it that much harder to catch him once he broke into a run, though.

I mean, really, 53.8 completion percentage, with a 71/52 TD/INT ratio? He's a great QB? ********. Great football player, just not a great QB, by any stretch.

When you look at Vick, you can't only look at passing stats. You have to take into considering what he did on his feet - because that was a big part of his game. A great QB isn't simply a player that throws it well - it's a player that can lead his team and produce big plays. Michael Vick DID that. Even if it was with his legs as much as his arm.

Addendum

07-24-2009, 02:19 AM

We'll see if he still has "it" after 2 years of not playing. I'm not expecting much

Mister J

07-24-2009, 02:31 AM

(Assuming he gets signed in an actual playing capacity at QB), neither am I.

Vick was heavily relying on his athleticism beforehand and was pretty shoddy at actually reading defenses and playing from the pocket. Two seasons away from the game is just going to complicate that. His legs were always more dangerous than his arm. That's a problem.

Cunning Stunts

07-24-2009, 02:46 AM

When you look at Vick, you can't only look at passing stats. You have to take into considering what he did on his feet - because that was a big part of his game. A great QB isn't simply a player that throws it well - it's a player that can lead his team and produce big plays. Michael Vick DID that. Even if it was with his legs as much as his arm.

Right, and why not do that with him at another position, so we can put someone in the QB position who can actually throw the ball? You know, passing is quite a large part of the game.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 02:53 AM

Right, and why not do that with him at another position, so we can put someone in the QB position who can actually throw the ball? You know, passing is quite a large part of the game.

Because throwing 20 TD passes is a successful year for a QB.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 02:53 AM

Cunning Stunts

07-24-2009, 02:57 AM

How about his 52.6%, the 9 fumbles (3 lost), and the 13 interceptions? Not good enough. I understand that he's a great athlete, and I'm not doubting that- nobody really can, legitimately. However, this is most certainly not a guy I want leading my team, nor passing for it... Sure, 20 TDs is great, but combine the rest of those stats with a QB who can't run and what do you have? A backup.

Stick him in a wildcat, as a QB/WR/RB player. Best way for him to come back in. To try to argue his QB ability based on one decent, maybe good stat, compared to a bunch of other ****** ones, is just lunacy.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 03:20 AM

How about his 52.6%, the 9 fumbles (3 lost), and the 13 interceptions? Not good enough. I understand that he's a great athlete, and I'm not doubting that- nobody really can, legitimately. However, this is most certainly not a guy I want leading my team, nor passing for it... Sure, 20 TDs is great, but combine the rest of those stats with a QB who can't run and what do you have? A backup.

Except he led an average team into the playoffs multiple times. Again, look at that offense - Alge Crumpler was the best receiver on that team. You can't evaluate Mike Vick purely based on passing numbers. A player that accounts for 23 TD's and 3,500 yards is NOT a back up - he is a starter.

Alex The Great

07-24-2009, 04:17 AM

When it's all said and done, Vick is scum. Killing dogs for money.

Bastard should stay the **** away from the NFL.

LegendaryCaleb

07-24-2009, 06:14 AM

When it's all said and done, Vick is scum. Killing dogs for money.

Bastard should stay the **** away from the NFL.
ehh i say he should play...hes still got somewhat of a future and hes paid his dues IMO

BlackLantern

07-24-2009, 06:55 AM

as far as our legal system is concerned, yes he has paid his dues....whether justice has been served is a matter of opinion..

it looks like he's going to be reinstated, but Im sure Goodell will have a very close eye on him

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 07:05 AM

Wasn't Vicks win percentage something like 73%?

Sure he only averaged about 200 yards passing a game. But then add to that the 80 yards rushing. 280 yards offense a game ain't bad.

And who did he have as receivers back then? Crumpler and...oh yea, no one else.

NO QB IN THE LEAGUE would of had great stats with a WR corps that was led by Michael Jenkins. FACT.

Plus the offensive line was utter ****e too. No wonder he scrambled all the time...he HAD to.

Vick can make the throws...it just depends on whether he has receivers who can catch the frickin ball.

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 07:06 AM

When it's all said and done, Vick is scum. Killing dogs for money.

Bastard should stay the **** away from the NFL.

Yea and Ray Lewis and Leanord Little killed PEOPLE!!!! Christ, what is wrong with some of you guys.

I love dogs but the guy has served his time. And other NFL players get away with murder...literally.

BlackLantern

07-24-2009, 07:14 AM

and that was under a different regime...with Paul Tagliabue, someone could have killed a hooker on the field and he would have just given the guy a 4 game suspension

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 07:17 AM

:hehe: Exactly.

And we are talking real nasty here. Lewis and his pals repeatedly stamped and STABBED a guy to death.

And people are still calling for Vick's head? Sort it out.

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 07:27 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/matt-ryan87.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/roddy-backflip.jpg

and the only Michael that matters...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/turner-1.jpg

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 07:29 AM

Yes yes you know 'Fire!!!

I don't want Vick back at the Falcons, we don't need him. But he should get a second chance elsewhere.

Who are we getting in the draft? I haven't been keeping up recently.

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 07:34 AM

Linemen, mainly. Peria Jerry from Ole Miss was their first rounder, he's a monster on the defense.

Later rounds, got some O-linemen and tackles. And got a HUGE pickup in Tony Gonzales from the Chiefs. Good to go :up:

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 07:38 AM

Tony G?!?! Niiiice :up:

So how do you think we'll fair? And I missed Total Access 32 teams in 32 days, where did they put us?

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 07:42 AM

I must have missed that too, because I don't know. lol

But from what I've heard, Matt Ryan has been working his tail off since the spring getting ready. Working on his passing to Roddy and Jenkins, learning on hooking up with Tony G, who Matt said has been just an awesome man and player to work with. The O and D have been pumping a lot of iron, getting ready..and no one's gotten into trouble.

The natives are feeling pretty good about the coming year. Just a little more than a month to go. :up:

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 07:47 AM

Very cool. Can't wait.

BlackLantern

07-24-2009, 07:48 AM

:hehe: Exactly.

And we are talking real nasty here. Lewis and his pals repeatedly stamped and STABBED a guy to death.

allegedly....Lewis was acquitted in a court of law, Michael Vick was not

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 07:58 AM

BlackLantern

07-24-2009, 08:10 AM

Vick admitted it after 4 other people flipped on him, he's not sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught...as for the Lewis case, there was a witness that was going to come forward and then took off the week before legal proceedings

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 08:12 AM

Dr. Evil

07-24-2009, 08:35 AM

ESPN backtracks on Vick suspension report
Posted by Mike Florio on July 24, 2009 12:01 AM ET
Continuing arguably one of its worst weeks since becoming an international sports powerhouse, ESPN has backtracked on its report that quarterback Mike Vick will be suspended four games to start the 2009 regular season.

Controversy erupted on Twitter in the aftermath of the initial report, with NFL spokesman Greg Aiello stating, "Despite what ESPN says, commish has made no decisions on MVick."

The remark was "retweeted" by NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy. ESPN's Chris Mortensen responded with a tweet of his own, "Despite what anyone says, ESPN did not report a decision has been made, based on what I just read on dot.com."

Not long thereafter, Mort clarified himself.

"I take that back," he said. "After this 12-hr drive, I just read the espn.com story and the lead is erroneous. Guess I can't get to bed yet."

The story from ESPN.com currently reads that Vick is expected to be conditionally reinstated, and that the decision could include a four-game suspension.

BlackLantern

07-24-2009, 08:39 AM

Exactly. The witness probably got paid off.

And that could be said about a lot of people who are caught. They are not sorry they did, just sorry they got caught.

What Vick did was wrong, no doubt. But to satanize him like some have been doing, then turning a blind eye to others who have done much worse things is really quite silly.

but its something that Roger Goodell has no control over, those issues were settled by the previous commissioner...he's been pretty diligent, as far as discipline issues since he's taken the office...my position has always been that Vick can live his life, no one is stopping that....but he can do it NOT playing professional football, if I had my way he'd spend 40 hrs a week, miserable in some cubicle for the rest of his days

Dr. Evil

07-24-2009, 10:04 AM

Sigh....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4350876

:facepalm:

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 10:06 AM

but its something that Roger Goodell has no control over, those issues were settled by the previous commissioner...he's been pretty diligent, as far as discipline issues since he's taken the office...my position has always been that Vick can live his life, no one is stopping that....but he can do it NOT playing professional football, if I had my way he'd spend 40 hrs a week, miserable in some cubicle for the rest of his days

I'm not talking about the commissioners.

I'm talking about people like me and you, the fans.

Most fans vilify Vick. Whilst most fans don't bat an eye lid about what Lewis did. And yea he didn't get convicted, but it's pretty obvious why he didn't get convicted. And it's nothing to do with truth or justice.

Fresh Prince

07-24-2009, 11:54 AM

Vick admitted it though.

Lewis obviously paid his boys off to take the rap or paid off witness or something. Speculation on my part but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that's how it went down. It was quite a shady case. Witnesses pulling out if I remember correctly, **** like that.

Yeah but Ray Lewis was worst if that was the case he killed a man. Vick did not. Also if that is really what happen with Lewis man I would not look at the guy right no more.

BlackLantern

07-24-2009, 11:56 AM

I'm not talking about the commissioners.

I'm talking about people like me and you, the fans.

Most fans vilify Vick. Whilst most fans don't bat an eye lid about what Lewis did. And yea he didn't get convicted, but it's pretty obvious why he didn't get convicted. And it's nothing to do with truth or justice.

Animal cruelty is a hot button issue with a LOT of people, Im not saying what Lewis was invloved in isn't serious, but for your average latte sucking American animal cruelty is a big deal

Excel

07-24-2009, 11:56 AM

No, sir. He was a mediocre QB (and trying to argue otherwise with a 53.8 completion percentage probably means that YOU are the clueless one), with AMAZING talent that he could have utilized in other positions. The fact that he was lightning fast and a QB made it that much harder to catch him once he broke into a run, though.

I mean, really, 53.8 completion percentage, with a 71/52 TD/INT ratio? He's a great QB? ********. Great football player, just not a great QB, by any stretch.

Please. He WAS that offense, the fact that they went as far as they did is a testement to Vick and, essentially, Vick alone.

Fresh Prince

07-24-2009, 11:56 AM

Excel

07-24-2009, 11:57 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/roddy-backflip.jpg

That pic is legit :up: :up:

Fresh Prince

07-24-2009, 11:58 AM

Please. He WAS that offense, the fact that they went as far as they did is a testement to Vick and, essentially, Vick alone.

True. They beat GB in the playoffs on the road in 03 and he took ATL to the NFC Championship game.

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 12:02 PM

That pic is legit :up: :up:

Yup, I remember it distinctly. He reeled in 70 yard TD pass from Ryan, then cut a flip :up:

Excel

07-24-2009, 12:07 PM

boKbwsbMvdc

wMSOO-HT0II&feature=related

Q69cfo0Msgs&feature=channel_page

Now the good stuff...

AduLRhKSh78

^Does anybody in the NFL run more gracefully? Its so pretty, just watching his huge strides rocket him past defenders.

And of course...

77wt2xBOuCM&feature=related

Excel

07-24-2009, 12:09 PM

Yup, I remember it distinctly. He reeled in 70 yard TD pass from Ryan, then cut a flip :up:

As do I. White didnt do jack for my fantasy team for the 1st two weeks so I knew he would bust out in week 3. About 1 q into the game...bombs away on a deep post. :up: :up:

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 12:12 PM

When it's all said and done, Vick is scum. Killing dogs for money.

He didn't kill dogs for money. He killed dogs for sport. :o

CELTICPRED

07-24-2009, 12:30 PM

Sigh....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4350876

:facepalm:

Merely a small portion of what us Packer fans have been going through the last 6 years.

Dr. Evil

07-24-2009, 12:32 PM

Vick may not have anywhere in the NFL to go:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-9-125/Vick-might-not-have-a-landing-spot.html

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 12:36 PM

As do I. White didnt do jack for my fantasy team for the 1st two weeks so I knew he would bust out in week 3. About 1 q into the game...bombs away on a deep post. :up: :up:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d80af9478/WK-3-Can-t-Miss-Play-Matt-Ryan-bomb

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 12:36 PM

If/when Vick's re instated, watch the Bills.

BlackLantern

07-24-2009, 12:39 PM

question - is Matty Ice a suitable nickname?

Excel

07-24-2009, 12:43 PM

If/when Vick's re instated, watch the Bills.

Ive been thinking along that Buffalo and San Fran would be flat out stupdi to not looking him. Vick in Buffolo would be dangerous.

Fresh Prince

07-24-2009, 12:43 PM

I know off topic but remember Brock Lesnar when he tried out in NFL? What happened again why he got cut?

Fresh Prince

07-24-2009, 12:43 PM

Ive been thinking along that Buffalo and San Fran would be flat out stupdi to not looking him. Vick in Buffolo would be dangerous.

Vick+T.O.=Super Bowl

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 12:45 PM

question - is Matty Ice a suitable nickname?

It works alright, given his teammate in Turner the Burner. Fire and Ice

:word:

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 12:51 PM

Thats nice...fire and ice. I likes it :up:

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 12:51 PM

Vick+T.O.=Super Bowl

T.O is at Buffalo now?

Dr. Evil

07-24-2009, 12:54 PM

T.O is at Buffalo now?

Yes. And he will throw a tantrum when Trent Edwards decides to throw to Lee Evans, Roscoe Parrish and Josh Reed instead of him.

Addendum

07-24-2009, 01:16 PM

Vick+T.O.=Super Bowl

So Buffalo can lose a 5th time?

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 01:17 PM

Tony G?!?! Niiiice :up:

So how do you think we'll fair? And I missed Total Access 32 teams in 32 days, where did they put us?

They put Atlanta at #10 http://www.nfl.com/videos/atlanta-falcons/09000d5d81134f03/32-in-32-Atlanta-Falcons

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 01:19 PM

Nice find man :up:

We got Mike Peterson as well? That's a pretty good acquisition.

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 01:24 PM

Yup, from what I gather..Peterson and coach Smith know what each other is thinking with just a mere glance. Comes from their previous years in Jacksonville. Sounds promising :up:

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 01:26 PM

Yea definitely.

I think now that Smith has had the chance to build his own defense, really put his own mark on it, it will improve big time. Because obviously he is a more defense minded coach and last year you could probably say it wasn't really his defensive unit yet. If you know what I mean?

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 01:36 PM

It really shouldn't be Mike Smith's unit this year either. Brian VanGorder did wonders with that defensive roster last year, hopefully the defense will be in his image - not Smith's.

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 01:41 PM

But I mean this year Smith has had the chance to put the unit together, in terms of personnel. Last year he had what Petrino left him really.

And our defense was 24th in yards allowed per game. I wouldn't say that was brilliant.

Mike Smith is a defensive minded coach. A damn good one I think. I think this year the defense will improve because he has obviously had more chance to build it.

Cunning Stunts

07-24-2009, 02:10 PM

Except he led an average team into the playoffs multiple times. Again, look at that offense - Alge Crumpler was the best receiver on that team. You can't evaluate Mike Vick purely based on passing numbers. A player that accounts for 23 TD's and 3,500 yards is NOT a back up - he is a starter.

It's funny, you completely huge portions of every post I put up whenever we have a conversation. Are you ****ing blind or something?

Fresh Prince

07-24-2009, 02:18 PM

So Buffalo can lose a 5th time?

Naw they would win this time.

Excel

07-24-2009, 02:54 PM

It's funny, you completely huge portions of every post I put up whenever we have a conversation. Are you ****ing blind or something?

Dunno about him but I cant see the word he does your posts...

Dr. Evil

07-24-2009, 03:17 PM

Doesn't Mike Mularkey run the Atlanta Offense? Or is that Bill Musgrave?

Addendum

07-24-2009, 03:35 PM

Naw they would win this time.

Based on what? If they get Vick, they'll have a QB that's never won a conference championship, a wide receiver that has never won a Super Bowl, and a head coach that has never won a game in the playoffs.

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 03:36 PM

Mularkey is O. Coordinator. Musgrave is QB coach.

Addendum

07-24-2009, 03:41 PM

Yea and Ray Lewis and Leanord Little killed PEOPLE!!!! Christ, what is wrong with some of you guys.

I love dogs but the guy has served his time. And other NFL players get away with murder...literally.

I just now noticed this.

So if you were arrested and charged for rape, but were acquitted, people could say that you were a rapist?

Immortalfire

07-24-2009, 03:49 PM

Doesn't Mike Mularkey run the Atlanta Offense? Or is that Bill Musgrave?

Mularkey is O. Coordinator. Musgrave is QB coach.

What he said.

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 03:56 PM

I just now noticed this.

So if you were arrested and charged for rape, but were acquitted, people could say that you were a rapist?

Me and BlackLantern already discussed this.

It is very convenient that the key witness in the trial pulled out just as it was getting to the important stuff...

Lewis was guilty, everybody should know this. To deny it is VERY naive. He just paid his boys off to take the fall and obviously paid this key witness off to not stand up in court.

Ray Lewis participated in a brutal killing of a HUMAN. FACT.

Addendum

07-24-2009, 04:07 PM

I don't think it's naive to say that he didn't do it when there was no evidence that he did it, there were witnesses for both the prosecution and defense that said Lewis was trying to break up the fight, there was no case in civil court that found Ray Lewis responsible, and no evidence has come out in the past 9 years that shows he stabbed someone.

Ace of Knaves

07-24-2009, 04:14 PM

Come on man, you are being naive. Why would a key witness for the prosecution just decide not to go to court at the 11th hour?

And even if he didn't actually stab the person, he was involved in the stamping and was there when one of his friends stabbed them.

And then what about Leonard Little?

People are satanizing Vick because he was obviously a bit of a prick, and did something terrible. But there is guys in the NFL who have done worse things. That's a fact. Hell, some of them probably still sling drugs or whatever.

Addendum

07-24-2009, 04:30 PM

I go where the evidence takes me. There was no evidence presented in the trial that showed Lewis did it. Why am I naive for making the logical and rational conclusion based on what was presented?

Again, according to what you're saying, if you were arrested and charged with rape, but were found not guilty in the trial, people could still call you a rapist. Would you be fine with people calling you a rapist even though you were found not guilty of rape?

Cmill216

07-24-2009, 05:08 PM

I'm sorry, but Goodell is missing the mark on this one.

StorminNorman

07-24-2009, 05:47 PM

It's funny, you completely huge portions of every post I put up whenever we have a conversation. Are you ****ing blind or something?

LOL are you...like a crazy person? What are you even talking about? I copied the relevant portion of your post. My argument is that Vick can play QB - you said that his stats indicate he is a back up. That's simply not true.

Ace of Knaves

07-25-2009, 07:42 AM

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 07:47 AM

You are naive because you are not being logical.

Being logical would be questioning and being suspicious about why a key prosecution witness pulled out at the 11th hour.

questioning it is logical...assuming this witness had something relevant and that their participation would have automatically proven Ray Lewis guilty is pure speculation

Ace of Knaves

07-25-2009, 07:48 AM

Well yea fair point.

But why would a witness bottle it? History has told us that witnesses bottle it and decide not to show up for only a few reasons. Being paid off or intimidated are the main ones.

I'm just putting 2 and 2 together.

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 07:55 AM

but you're stilll operating on an assumption of guilt....people are being asked to forgive Vick, but he was convicted...and some people still view Ray Lewis as guilty even though he was acquitted

Ace of Knaves

07-25-2009, 08:02 AM

I'm not saying forgive Vick. Not at all.

I'm saying he has served his time. End of story. That's it.

And I'm also saying that satanizing Vick for staging dog fights and breeding dogs at one of his homes is stupid. Sure it was wrong, but...

There was no evidence that he actually killed the dogs himself or anything like that. But people will bang on all day saying "Well Vick drowned and electrocuted dogs!"

If I'm operating on an assumption of guilt, they are too.

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 08:05 AM

1 of the 4 men that testified against Vick did testify that Vick did execute dogs himself on two separate occasions and was present at other executions...granted its not hard evidence but it is testimony in a court of law

rdh007

07-25-2009, 08:07 AM

Ace of Knaves

07-25-2009, 08:09 AM

Yea well where did the idea that Lewis joined in the stamping and stabbing come from? That was obviously presented in a court of law too. Maybe not hard evidence...but then that's why I find the "disappearing" witness suspicious.

Ace of Knaves

07-25-2009, 08:10 AM

I think the fact that Lewis' case included a human being with a soul and Vick abused animals is relevant. That's not to say that Vick is the kind of guy I'm gonna leave my kids with for the weekend, or even that I have much respect for the guy. I guess I'd rather leave my kids with a dude that kills dogs than a guy that (all signs point to) probably killed a human.

I mean, OJ got off, does that mean he didn't do it? I thought we'd all decided he had. :confused:

Nice sig, BL. Just bought that comic to prepare for the movie and thumbed through til I found that incident.

Exactly.

And I see you are a fan of Brick Top. Trust me, search for "Snatch Wars" on youtube. You will not be disappointed :D

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 08:13 AM

I think the fact that Lewis' case included a human being with a soul and Vick abused animals is relevant. That's not to say that Vick is the kind of guy I'm gonna leave my kids with for the weekend, or even that I have much respect for the guy. I guess I'd rather leave my kids with a dude that kills dogs than a guy that (all signs point to) probably killed a human.

I mean, OJ got off, does that mean he didn't do it? I thought we'd all decided he had. :confused:

Nice sig, BL. Just bought that comic to prepare for the movie and thumbed through til I found that incident.

Yes Vick has served his time and he can make a living, I just don't think he should be allowed the privilege of playing in the NFL

thansk rdh, I find it entertaining that some batfans took serious offense to it and don't understand that it fits in the context of the story....Bats gives him a return crack in the mouth in GL #7 or 8...not sure which

rdh007

07-25-2009, 09:37 AM

Yes Vick has served his time and he can make a living, I just don't think he should be allowed the privilege of playing in the NFL

thansk rdh, I find it entertaining that some batfans took serious offense to it and don't understand that it fits in the context of the story....Bats gives him a return crack in the mouth in GL #7 or 8...not sure which

I actually would like to see him headline the UFL, I think it would give them an air of legitimacy.

StorminNorman

07-25-2009, 10:20 AM

Yes Vick has served his time and he can make a living, I just don't think he should be allowed the privilege of playing in the NFL

Playing for the NFL isn't a privilege, it's a business.

Immortalfire

07-25-2009, 10:35 AM

Playing for the NFL isn't a privilege, it's a business.

:huh::huh::huh:

StorminNorman

07-25-2009, 10:43 AM

:huh::huh::huh:

Playing for the NFL is no more a privilege than having any other job is.

Immortalfire

07-25-2009, 10:51 AM

Applying for a job doesn't always mean you're going to get hired. So please, explain to us how football players have the automatic/guaranteed right to be drafted.

Kaleb

07-25-2009, 10:54 AM

:huh::huh::huh:
:huh::huh::huh:

StorminNorman

07-25-2009, 10:55 AM

Applying for a job doesn't always mean you're going to get hired. So please, explain to us how football players have the automatic/guaranteed right to be drafted.

They don't have an automatic or guaranteed right to be drafted.

But Vick has been drafted, he has proven to be an elite talent, he has proven to be successful, he has been proven to win games and he has served his time to both society and the NFL over the past two years. If no team wants to give the guy a job, fine - but that's not going to happen because teams know that Michael Vick is more talented than many of the people on their roster.

As such Michael Vick shouldn't be further punished by the league for a non-football incident that he has paid for and allowed the opportunity for employment in the field he is best at. Football.

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 11:15 AM

The NFL has a personal conduct policy, Vick violated the **** out of that when he LIED to the commissioner about his involvement, and then the subsequent legal matters...Goodell has said numerous times that professional athletes should be held to a higher standard because they are in the public eye....it IS a privilege to earn 250k (league minimun I think) or more to play football aired on regional and national TV...and as an organization, they have the right to choose who they do or do not employ

StorminNorman

07-25-2009, 11:23 AM

The ORGANIZATIONS should choose, not the league. Yea, I know what Goodell said - and he is not wrong. But Michael Vick being in the public eye is a GOOD THING. He should be promoted by the league as a perfect warning. This is a guy that had EVERYTHING and LOST IT ALL because of his roots, because of his friends, because of the culture he grew up in. If that isn't a wake up call to others in that similar situation, nothing ever will be.

But I am tired of this "people are so lucky they get to play in the NFL bull". It is NOT a privilege to risk your quality of life, making millions upon millions of dollars for a franchise - even if you make a substantial load of money doing it.

The fact remains Michael Vick makes MORE money for people than he ever received himself. And that will especially be the case if he signs for the league minimum.

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 11:34 AM

and him showing up to meet Goodell with a 20+ person entourage shows he hasn't learned ****...i think the chances are pretty good he gets reinstated, if the paperwork isn't being processed already....and some team, desperate for talent, will sign him

Ace of Knaves

07-25-2009, 11:35 AM

Yea Vick used to give millions to charity and things like that.

He couldn't of been that big a prick surely?

I still maintain that he was used by his so called "buddies" with the staging and breeding of the dogs.

Sure he was still involved. But I think he is more guilty of being stupid and letting people use him rather than being outright evil.

Dr. Evil

07-25-2009, 11:56 AM

Dallas isn't interested in Vick:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/24/cowboys-still-not-interested-in-vick/

But I wouldn't be surprised if some members of the national media connect Vick to Dallas the moment Tony Romo screws up or gets injured. Hell, I bet that some Cowboys fans who don't like Tony will connect Vick to Dallas.

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 11:58 AM

I don't think any big market or team in contention will be interested

Kaleb

07-25-2009, 12:27 PM

An article from earlier this week that I thought was pretty funny considering the teams involved

NFL Network's Jason La Canfora reports that he's heard the Bengals, Jaguars, and Raiders mentioned in scouting circles when discussing possible landing spots for free agent Michael Vick.

He did not name the Rams, despite their shaky QB situation, Vick's ties to GM Billy Devaney, and previous reports of St. Louis' interest. NFL Network's Mike Lombardi says Jacksonville could emerge as serious bidder in the Vick "sweepstakes." David Garrard's current backup is 37-year-old Todd Bouman.

source:rotoworld.com

I mean really, the Bengals and the Raiders ?

StorminNorman

07-25-2009, 12:43 PM

The Raiders make a ton of sense - for reasons other than it being the punch line of a joke.

I fully expect Oakland to be Vick's resting spot should he re-enter the league this year.

Dr. Evil

07-25-2009, 12:53 PM

The Raiders make a ton of sense - for reasons other than it being the punch line of a joke.

I fully expect Oakland to be Vick's resting spot should he re-enter the league this year.

Maybe he'll teach JaMarcus not to eat 20 hamburgers a day.

Darthphere

07-25-2009, 12:57 PM

I want to eat 20 hamburgers a day.

Addendum

07-25-2009, 01:54 PM

what kind of burgers? Sliders, or regular ones

Dr. Evil

07-25-2009, 02:04 PM

what kind of burgers? Sliders, or regular ones

Probably regular ones.

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 02:25 PM

I can see him on the Raiders too...anything to get JaMarcus off the field, if you listen closely, you can actually hear him getting fatter

enterthemadness

07-25-2009, 02:26 PM

How can he eat that many hamburgers a day? Isn't that too much..protein?

Learn how to play in the NFL, dude, not keep up your weight/muscle.

Venom'sDad

07-25-2009, 03:05 PM

I mean really, the Bengals and the Raiders ?

Well... the Raiders have always been a home for the League's Outcast..... suprise PacMan is not a member. :O

Dr. Evil

07-25-2009, 03:25 PM

Would Minnesota be interested in Vick if this Favre fella decides not to play for them?

BlackLantern

07-25-2009, 03:35 PM

i don't think so...Childress is on the hot seat as it is

Kaleb

07-25-2009, 04:13 PM

I doubt Minisota would be interested, a few yrs back they had to fix up their image after that whole ''love boat'' thingy.

Dr. Evil

07-25-2009, 04:15 PM

Well, if Favre doesn't return, then they will probably end up with Sam Bradford or Jevan Snead in the draft.

I think Vick ends up in the UFL.

Addendum

07-25-2009, 04:21 PM

or he gets a job at espn

Kaleb

07-25-2009, 04:25 PM

49ers are rumoured to be targeting Bradford with their 2 first rnd picks.

Cunning Stunts

07-25-2009, 05:35 PM

LOL are you...like a crazy person? What are you even talking about? I copied the relevant portion of your post.

... And ignored chunks at your own choosing, as you've done just about every time you and I have had a conversation.

And am I the crazy person? The guy who values Mike Vick as a great QB? The guy who posts here like his opinion has some massive amount of weight? Really, dude?

My argument is that Vick can play QB - you said that his stats indicate he is a back up. That's simply not true.

Which is ********, because he's a mediocre passer who thought, "I gotta run!" on every other play. I'm not doubting his physical skills as a player, I'm doubting his physical skills as a quarterback. He was inaccurate as hell, and that's most definitely not something a quarterback needs to be.

Immortalfire

07-25-2009, 05:46 PM

or he gets a job at espn

I thought that was only for retired coaches.

Addendum

07-25-2009, 06:23 PM

Then why do they have Cris Carter and some other former players?

CELTICPRED

07-25-2009, 06:43 PM

And Qadry Ismail.

http://i29.tinypic.com/9jepz6.jpg

lol

Addendum

07-25-2009, 07:07 PM

I don't know what's more crazy: the eyes or the smile

Excel

07-25-2009, 07:16 PM

Cris Carter actually knows what he is talking about and isnt a ***** ala Trent Dilfer.

Dr. Evil

07-25-2009, 08:25 PM

Bills open training camp today.

So how long will it take for T.O. to get into a fit?

enterthemadness

07-25-2009, 08:36 PM

Bills open training camp today.

So how long will it take for T.O. to get into a fit?

Right before a home game in Toronto.

Immortalfire

07-25-2009, 09:45 PM

Bills open training camp today.

So how long will it take for T.O. to get into a fit?

A week.

StorminNorman

07-25-2009, 09:59 PM

Cris Carter actually knows what he is talking about and isnt a ***** ala Trent Dilfer.

Marcus Wiley, Mr, Elizabeth Hasselbeck, etc.

NewYorkSpider

07-25-2009, 10:26 PM

Would Minnesota be interested in Vick if this Favre fella decides not to play for them?

Yes. Brad Childress has said he wants someone to challenge Tavaris Jackson for the starting job. This means he's not sold on him.

Darthphere

07-25-2009, 11:09 PM

I thought that's why they TRADED for Rosenfels.

Dr. Evil

07-25-2009, 11:51 PM

I thought that's why they TRADED for Rosenfels.

They did trade Rosenfels for that reason, but Childress doesn't trust him either, which is why Minnesota is going after Brett Favre.

Ace of Knaves

07-25-2009, 11:58 PM

... And ignored chunks at your own choosing, as you've done just about every time you and I have had a conversation.

And am I the crazy person? The guy who values Mike Vick as a great QB? The guy who posts here like his opinion has some massive amount of weight? Really, dude?

Which is ********, because he's a mediocre passer who thought, "I gotta run!" on every other play. I'm not doubting his physical skills as a player, I'm doubting his physical skills as a quarterback. He was inaccurate as hell, and that's most definitely not something a quarterback needs to be.

And Stunts, you seem to ignore the fact that Vick had one of the worst receiving corps and o line ever.

Sure you can read your stats all day long but you have to see it for yourself.

Do you know how many drops Michael Jenkins had alone?

How many times did the pocket collapse on Vick?

That's why he ran...he HAD to. That's why his pass completion percentage wasn't that high.

He can make the throws.

You can't always just look at the stats. You gotta see the bigger picture.

The fact is Vick had a win percentage of 73% or something. Him and Crumpler...and to a lesser extent Warrick Dunn were that offense.

NewYorkSpider

07-26-2009, 12:12 AM

I thought that's why they TRADED for Rosenfels.

Tavaris Jackson is in a contract year and Rosenfels is unproven (although I think he would make a good QB for Minnesota in the next few years). If Favre doesn't sign, they need to look at Vick.

Dr. Evil

07-26-2009, 12:24 AM

Tavaris Jackson is in a contract year and Rosenfels is unproven (although I think he would make a good QB for Minnesota in the next few years). If Favre doesn't sign, they need to look at Vick.

They do need to look at Vick if King Brett doesn't sign, but I think Brad Childress gets fired, replaced by one of Shanahan, Holmgren or Cowher and they end up drafting either Sam Bradford or Jevan Snead with a top ten pick. And they inch no closer to getting a new stadium.

Excel

07-26-2009, 12:31 AM

Wtf is Crabtree doing?

Cunning Stunts

07-26-2009, 11:35 AM

And Stunts, you seem to ignore the fact that Vick had one of the worst receiving corps and o line ever.

Sure you can read your stats all day long but you have to see it for yourself.

Do you know how many drops Michael Jenkins had alone?

How many times did the pocket collapse on Vick?

That's why he ran...he HAD to. That's why his pass completion percentage wasn't that high.

He can make the throws.

You can't always just look at the stats. You gotta see the bigger picture.

The fact is Vick had a win percentage of 73% or something. Him and Crumpler...and to a lesser extent Warrick Dunn were that offense.

I did used to, "see for myself," and if I recall correctly, he still had a pretty big reputation for completely missing and overthrowing his receivers. I know he didn't have a great receiving corps at all, but not hitting the receivers at all speaks for itself. Many of the "dropped" passes were in fact due to his inability to hit a receiver in the numbers. He even had Roddy White, and look what Roddy managed to do last year with a freakin' rookie QB. I know you can't just look at the stats, but in Vick's case, they speak the truth.

And I know a good chunk of the running down to a crappy O-Line, but the guy ran constantly. Way too often for a Quarterback- he had over 100 attempts each during the '02, '04, '05, and '06 seasons.

NewYorkSpider

07-26-2009, 12:39 PM

The Atlanta Falcons offense wasn't built to be a passing team when Vick was there. So Roddy White not getting a lot of passes was common. When Vick had left, they focused more on the passing game and White became one of their best recievers.

Ace of Knaves

07-26-2009, 12:52 PM

Plus I think that is just Roddy improving as a receiver. He was still basically a rookie when Vick was there.

White is a great receiver now though. I expect big things from him next season :up:

Dr. Evil

07-26-2009, 02:19 PM

T.O. talks about Vick:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/26/is-to-talking-up-vick-in-advance-of-a-buffalo-run-at-him/

Immortalfire

07-26-2009, 04:16 PM

Plus I think that is just Roddy improving as a receiver. He was still basically a rookie when Vick was there.

White is a great receiver now though. I expect big things from him next season :up:

Oh yeah, going from really nothing to a 1000 yard year, the pro bowl and the Falcons season record for receiving yards. BIG improvement :word:

Dr. Evil

07-26-2009, 04:28 PM

I give it until week three of the regular season for T.O. to call out Trent Edwards.

Excel

07-26-2009, 07:46 PM

Roddy was nasty in 2007 as well. Runs GORGEOUS routes.

Kaiser

07-26-2009, 08:25 PM

Bengals training camps starts friday!!!!

When does your team start?

Immortalfire

07-26-2009, 08:34 PM

Bengals training camps starts friday!!!!

When does your team start?

Yesterday

bunk

07-26-2009, 08:57 PM

My team starts tomorrow. They train like 15 minutes away, so I'll go watch them at some point.

Addendum

07-26-2009, 09:26 PM

Bears start on the 31st

CELTICPRED

07-26-2009, 09:31 PM

Packers doesn't start for another 5 days.

Kaiser

07-27-2009, 12:16 AM

My team starts tomorrow. They train like 15 minutes away, so I'll go watch them at some point.

Bengals TC is about 70 mins away so I'll drive down to see them at least once.

Kaleb

07-27-2009, 06:40 AM

omg what the hell is going on

Derrick Mason decides to retire , so the Ravens sign Drew Bennett and now he decides to retire.

arghhhhh.

Kaleb

07-27-2009, 06:41 AM

My team starts tomorrow. They train like 15 minutes away, so I'll go watch them at some point.

My team as well, well only the rookies though.

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 06:54 AM

so T.O. is running his mouth AGAIN....too bad you can't be suspended for being a complete DBag

Kaleb

07-27-2009, 07:01 AM

what crap is he saying now ?

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 07:08 AM

that Goodell is being unfair and he should spend 23 months in prison....bringing up the old "there are guys in the league that have done worse" crap

Kaleb

07-27-2009, 07:22 AM

T.O you're a hasbeen and your opinions are no longer valid you are the new Joe Horn of the league.

Ace of Knaves

07-27-2009, 08:12 AM

What's T.O mouthing off about?

Immortalfire

07-27-2009, 08:48 AM

What's T.O mouthing off about?

Anything he can.

Ace of Knaves

07-27-2009, 08:51 AM

:hehe: So true.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 10:05 AM

T.O you're a hasbeen and your opinions are no longer valid you are the new Joe Horn of the league.

Wait. What? He's coming off a 1,000 yard, 10 TD year. :huh:

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 10:07 AM

the man still has great talent and I think if his head is in the right place he can contribute to Buffalo, he just runs at the mouth more than he really should

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 10:45 AM

Absolutely - but not in this instance. T.O. commenting on Michael Vick makes a lot of sense.

Kaleb

07-27-2009, 10:52 AM

why is that may I ask?

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 11:04 AM

Because he's a player...talking about a legitimate NFL issue?

This isn't him dividing a locker room, this isn't him causing a scene, this isn't him going outside decency.

This is Owens, being asked a legit question by a reporter, and giving a legit answer...

Anyone complaining about Owens talking is acting absurdly.

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 11:06 AM

but he is calling other players out because most are pretty mum about the subject...and that is their right to not comment on it

Venom'sDad

07-27-2009, 11:06 AM

I agree Storm.....

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 11:11 AM

but he is calling other players out because most are pretty mum about the subject...and that is their right to not comment on it

I think TO probably has talked to a lot of players about Michael Vick and knows the stance of many in the league. Since I would highly expect Michael Vick being reinstated is rather popular among player circles, then he is absolutely correct in saying that players should speak out if they care. He is also absolutely right in saying the Players Union should come out in support of Vick.

TO is not calling out any in particular, all he is saying is that people who want Vick's return are doing him no good in staying mum. That, again, is completely reasonable.

If this was LT and not TO, no one would bat an eye at such comments.

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 11:17 AM

I think TO probably has talked to a lot of players about Michael Vick and knows the stance of many in the league. Since I would highly expect Michael Vick being reinstated is rather popular among player circles, then he is absolutely correct in saying that players should speak out if they care. He is also absolutely right in saying the Players Union should come out in support of Vick.

TO is not calling out any in particular, all he is saying is that people who want Vick's return are doing him no good in staying mum. That, again, is completely reasonable.

If this was LT and not TO, no one would bat an eye at such comments.

I don't agree...its Vicks issue to deal with

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 11:21 AM

Dr. Evil

07-27-2009, 11:34 AM

Tony Dungy says Vick should not be suspended in 2009:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/27/dungy-agrees-with-to-on-vick/

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 11:38 AM

But you don't want Vick back in the league, of course that would be your stance.

If players care about Vick coming in the league, they should say so. Those that don't care should stay mum. Those that oppose him should speak out as well.

The players should not remain idle as NFL Administration makes decisions.

honestly, I would feel that way regardless....Michael Vick is the one that has to show that he should be allowed back in the NFL....if you get in trouble, its up to you to make it right

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 11:46 AM

And he did that. By serving 2 years in jail. He repaid his debt to society.

Dr. Evil

07-27-2009, 11:49 AM

so T.O. is running his mouth AGAIN....too bad you can't be suspended for being a complete DBag

I've got week three of the regular season before he bashes Trent Edwards in the media.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 11:50 AM

I've got week three of the regular season before he bashes Trent Edwards in the media.

That would go against TO's MO. It would be at least a season before he starts talking smack.

But see, this is kinda what I was getting at earlier. TO has become so embedded in everyone's mind as such a cartoon that people ignore what he has really done in favor of their perception of TO.

Nothing in TO's past would give you any reason to believe he would bash Trent Edwards, in the media or otherwise, by week three of this year.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 12:02 PM

Except when he doesn't get a lot of passes.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 12:07 PM

In 2006 (his first year with Dallas) there were multiple games were TO had 3 or less receptions. No complaints.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 12:12 PM

And he did that. By serving 2 years in jail. He repaid his debt to society.

So? Employers do not have to hire someone that has completed the terms of their imprisonment.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 12:14 PM

So? Employers do not have to hire someone that has completed the terms of their imprisonment.

No, they don't. I am not saying that a team should have to hire Michael Vick - all I am saying is that they should have the OPTION to.

FaT_tONle

07-27-2009, 12:21 PM

People need to give T.O a pass. He is entitled to his opinion and many players have sided with Vick on the issue. What motive is there to suspend him? Other than Goodell's concerns with the PETA backlash, I don't see why it would even be an issue, and that's not much of an excuse to keep him out anyway. As for T.O, I still think he matters in the league. He's a polarizing figure and a showman. NFL needs players like that. Unless you guys want all NFL players to be the robotic brutes out of that Belicheck school then by all means, get on T.O.

Excel

07-27-2009, 12:25 PM

If Owens was asked about...wtf is the problem?

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 12:34 PM

And he did that. By serving 2 years in jail. He repaid his debt to society.

yes he has repaid his debit to society...but no one else is obligated to help him or speak on his behalf as far as the NFL is concerned...the smartest thing anyone can do at this point is stay out of it

Ace of Knaves

07-27-2009, 01:13 PM

I remember Clintin Portis spoke out in Vick's favour when the "incident" first happened. No one had a problem with that.

It's just because it's TO opening his mouth again.

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 01:15 PM

I remember Clintin Portis spoke out in Vick's favour when the "incident" first happened. No one had a problem with that.

Oh yes they did....Portis got a lot of heat for his comments about dogfighting, he even apologized a couple weeks later for it

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 01:15 PM

I don't have a problem with TO or his antics/comments but people need to stop saying this "He can say it because freedom of speech", in a response to people saying Goodell can't do anything about his comments. That's so incredibly naive.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 01:18 PM

No, they don't. I am not saying that a team should have to hire Michael Vick - all I am saying is that they should have the OPTION to.

Depending on how Goodell decides.

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 01:20 PM

Goodell will look like a giant hypocrite if he doesn't reinstate him. But it's a moot point, because Goodell will.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 01:20 PM

yes he has repaid his debit to society...but no one else is obligated to help him or speak on his behalf as far as the NFL is concerned...the smartest thing anyone can do at this point is stay out of it

Obligated? No. And I don't think TO is trying to obligate anyone into speaking - he is simply giving his opinion that fans of Vick within the league should come to his support in order to help him, which is a perfectly rational statement. TO didn't go "I was chillin with my boys Randy Moss, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Ronnie Brown and we all agreed that Vick should come back and I hope they will tell ya'll the same" - he didn't name names.

I don't have a problem with TO or his antics/comments but people need to stop saying this "He can say it because freedom of speech", in a response to people saying Goodell can't do anything about his comments. That's so incredibly naive.

Agreed. TO is never speaking simply as a citizen, but as a representative of the league.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 01:21 PM

Depending on how Goodell decides.

Correct. And I am talking about what Goodell SHOULD do. He SHOULD reinstate Vick and allow the TEAMS to decide what they want to do.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 01:23 PM

Why should Goodell reinstate Vick? Simply because Vick's prison sentence is over?

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 01:23 PM

Why what?

Addendum

07-27-2009, 01:41 PM

What part of the question confused you

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 01:43 PM

What part of the question confused you

Well if you're going to be an ******* and pretend you didn't edit the original post when it just said "Why" then none of it.:whatever::whatever::whatever:

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 01:50 PM

Why should Goodell reinstate Vick? Simply because Vick's prison sentence is over?

It's not simply because the prison sentence is over, but the fact that I think it's hard to argue that Vick hasn't been appropriately punished for his wrong doing. He has been out of the league two years, lost millions upon millions of dollars and has paid his debt with society with the prison term.

When compared to other offenses, Vick has been punished quite thoroughly. The teams now should be the ones to rule on Vick - not the Commish.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 01:52 PM

Well if you're going to be an *******

I've always been an *******

Excel

07-27-2009, 01:58 PM

Owens actually put it quite intelligently: He has already been suspended for 2 seasons. Why did they add more games?

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 01:59 PM

I've always been an *******

Your consistency is what makes me respect you.

Though I occasionally groan when I see you respond to a post of mine.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 01:59 PM

Owens actually put it quite intelligently: He has already been suspended for 2 seasons. Why did they add more games?

Agreed - he was much better at articulating Vick's side than some have.

NewYorkSpider

07-27-2009, 02:02 PM

I really don't think Owens is causing a problem here. He basically gave his opinion on the subject and moved on. This really had nothing to do with the Buffalo Bills.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 02:03 PM

I've moved on from T.O.

All he's ever earned from me is just an "ehh"

Immortalfire

07-27-2009, 02:22 PM

Hey kids, a reminder; next month I'll be setting up the Pro Football Pick 'em, for the third straight year.

You can be a part of my 15 picker league, picking the winners in each week's games, competing for the prized Dennis Green trophy.

Be watching in August for more info :yay:

Addendum

07-27-2009, 02:29 PM

They made a Dennis Green action figure? You squeeze his belly and he says "The Bears are who we thought they were and we let them off the hook"

Or is it an ass wearing a crown

Ace of Knaves

07-27-2009, 02:30 PM

Cool Fire. I'm gonna have to enter that this year, try and beat you boys at your own game ;)

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 02:33 PM

Vick reinstated on a conditional basis.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 02:35 PM

I only do the picks in the playoffs.

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 02:37 PM

NEW YORK -- Michael Vick has been conditionally reinstated by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who will then decide on the quarterback's full reinstatement for Week 6 of the regular season.

Vick can participate without delay in preseason practices, workouts and meetings and can play in the final two preseason games -- if he can find a team that will sign him.

Once the season begins, Vick may participate in all team activities other than games, but could play as soon as October.

Goodell called a news conference for late Monday afternoon.

ESPN.com

enterthemadness

07-27-2009, 02:38 PM

I want to see Vick return Punts. It be crazy.

Ace of Knaves

07-27-2009, 02:41 PM

Sick. Good on Goodell I think.

Yea Vick was one of the most elusive players ever I thought. But the thing is, how much has he lost in prison? I'm sure he was still working out in there, but what about missing the experience of playing against top defenses every week?

If he still has it I think he should come back as a QB. With a good QB coach and O Coordinator, decent receiving corps and O line plus his electrifying speed and ability to dodge tackles he could be an immense player IMO.

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 02:43 PM

Ace of Knaves

07-27-2009, 02:46 PM

I'm sure he was very elusive in prison...

:funny: Good point.

Dr. Evil

07-27-2009, 02:49 PM

Who's going to be interested in him?

Immortalfire

07-27-2009, 02:49 PM

They made a Dennis Green action figure? You squeeze his belly and he says "The Bears are who we thought they were and we let them off the hook"

Or is it an ass wearing a crown

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j144/duende_verde/DennisGreenTrophy.jpg

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 02:51 PM

Raiders sign Michael Vick.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 02:51 PM

NewYorkSpider

07-27-2009, 02:51 PM

Who's going to be interested in him?

People think San Francisco, but I've heard they want nothing to do with him.

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 02:53 PM

I think Frisco would be a good fit, but if they don't want him oh well

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 02:54 PM

Buffalo and Oakland are most likely, IMO.

BlackLantern

07-27-2009, 02:55 PM

Al Davis loves a spectacle

Dr. Evil

07-27-2009, 02:55 PM

Oakland has Jeff Garcia.

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 02:59 PM

Under those conditions, Vick would be better off playing in the UFL and joining an NFL team after that season.

I am actually going to change this stance. After review it says Week 6 is the LATEST he can play in games. While I still think Vick would be better off showing his stuff on a field as a starting UFL QB than an NFL wild cat specialist, this ruling should have no impact.

Oakland has Jeff Garcia.

So? He's a QB that is completely ill-equipped for the vertical offense and is also like 40 years old.

Darthphere

07-27-2009, 03:04 PM

Oakland has a Burger King.

NewYorkSpider

07-27-2009, 03:05 PM

I think Jacksonville should take a chance on Vick.

edit: Actually, they might not since they have Garrard a contract extension.

Marx

07-27-2009, 03:06 PM

Vick reinstated on a conditional basis.

*waits for Cincinnati to show interesting in signing him*

:dry:

enterthemadness

07-27-2009, 03:06 PM

Oakland has a Burger King.

Jamarcus Russel put it out of biz though.

Addendum

07-27-2009, 03:06 PM

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j144/duende_verde/DennisGreenTrophy.jpg

cool.

I betcha a Dennis Green action figure will come out

StorminNorman

07-27-2009, 03:10 PM

*waits for Cincinnati to show interesting in signing him*

:dry:

Cincinnati would be smart in showing interest. Besides the obvious punchline.

I think Jacksonville should take a chance on Vick.

edit: Actually, they might not since they have Garrard a contract extension.

Jacksonville is an option - can anyone name Garrard's back up?

Plus Garrard's contract is very Jacksonville friendly, they can release him without much penalty.