2009 NFL Thread

[danielisthor]

Cutler for Quinn and a 3rd rounder would be fair.

Quinn and a 2nd is closer to reality.

[danielisthor]

Actually the value chart for draft picks is completely out of date. Because of contract, the number one pick isn't very valuable any more. If Detroit can get Cutler with the first pick, its a good deal - you are essentially drafting a Pro Bowl QB at number one, thats always a good move.

Either Manning, Brady, maybe Romo, yes. Cutler no. Cutler for #20, I might. Cutler for their 2nd. Yes.



Cutler's a damn good QB, he is well worth it.

We disagree.



Coke isn't really such a big deal compared to assault, dog violence, etc. Drugs are not physical abuse of an innocent.

For a famly conscience NFL, that likes to brag about its anti-drug stance, it should of been a bigger suspension. Goodell likes to drop the hammer on any instance that makes the NFL look bad or ones that don't as long as they can fine a player (td celebrations), he sure didn't do it in this instance.

[KALEL114]

Disappointed Bowlen: "We might lose our star QB"

They have tried separating. They have twice tried meeting.

Nothing has worked. What's next for new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and his disgruntled quarterback, Jay Cutler?

There is now a real possibility the two sides are headed for a divorce based on irreconcilable differences.

"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he is steadfastly supporting his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the situation.

More...
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11919325

[Mastodon123]

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/cutler.nfl.broncos.2.958850.html

Cutler's not showing up, and neither is TE, Tony Scheffler.

[Dark Donnie]

Scheffler was being shopped to Philly earlier in the offseason. I'd love to see that happen.

[FaT_tONle]

Either Manning, Brady, maybe Romo, yes. Cutler no. Cutler for #20, I might. Cutler for their 2nd. Yes.

Now that we are ranking QB's... I'd go

1. Manning
2. Brady
3. Rivers
4. Big Ben
5. Brees
6. Cutler
7. Romo
8. Warner
9. McNabb
10. Manning

Cutler at number 6... he's that good.

[The Incredible Hulk]

What the hell has Rivers ever done to be considered better than either Brees or Big Ben?

[FaT_tONle]

I have seen enough from Rivers to put him in that category. Big Ben is too inconsistent and doesn't put up the numbers... Brees has just done it a bit longer.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Big Ben has 2 Super Bowl rings. We're not talking fantasy stats here.

[FaT_tONle]

Well that's not what I was talking about. Dilfer isn't a better QB than Marino just because he won a ring. If I am starting a team... I am taking Rivers over him. It's not about who you would rather have two minutes left in a ball game for a final drive. It's about highest probability of consistency and success through the course of the season.

[danielisthor]

Big Ben is lucky enough to have enough talent around him to mask his issues. Ben is barely a top 10 Qb let alone a top 5.

We shall see this year how good Romo is.

And based on last year, Ryan might already be a in the top 10.

My point was that Cutler is not worth the top pick in the draft.

[Mastodon123]

Cutlers done with the Bronco's and wants to be traded.

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/cutler.nfl.broncos.2.958850.html

[Go Web Go!]

Way to **** on your team before even coaching a game, McDaniels.

[Excel]

Way to **** on your team before even coaching a game, McDaniels.

:lmao:

McD could have handled it better...but this is all on Cutler. Hes the Ocho Cinco of QBs.

[Darthphere]

While I do think that Cutler is overreacting, you don't attempt to trade your starting QB and then lie about it, and then try to play it off when you get caught.

[Raiden]

Way to **** on your team before even coaching a game, McDaniels.

I think McDaniels definitely mishandled their franchise QB, but Cutler also overreacted and acted like he's already John Elway. I think Cutler is probably already harboring resentment after his old coach was fired, and this latest episode was just adding fuel to the fire.

[Go Web Go!]

:lmao:

McD could have handled it better...but this is all on Cutler. Hes the Ocho Cinco of QBs.

He's a loudmouth malcontent because of one incident that he has every right to be pissed off about? :huh:

[StorminNorman]

Cutler for Quinn and a 3rd rounder would be fair.

Cutler for Quinn/Shaun Rodgers and a third.

Shaun Rodgers will be included in the deal, count it.

[Excel]

While I do think that Cutler is overreacting, you don't attempt to trade your starting QB and then lie about it, and then try to play it off when you get caught.

1. They never lied :huh:

2. Cutler saying they initiated the talks is just flat out wrong :cwink:

3. McDaniels doesnt care either, because reguardless Cutler has no right to cry publically if they want to trade him because if they did, they can because McD runs the show and Cutler doesnt :up:

4. Cutler wanted McD to say that Jay was god and too good to go anywhere. McD said Cutler is god to them but is subjected to trade talks like very other player, and if the right deal ever came along to make the team better it would be, and that isnt what Jay wanted to hear :csad:

5. McD wont trade Cutler and force him to play ala Ocho Cinco, and the media will grow tired and inevitaboly begin to dislike Cutler and praise McD, therefore ensuring McD owns Cutler
:indy:

6. The tranformation from Josh McDaniels into Bill Belichick Jr. is complete :word:

[StorminNorman]

Either Manning, Brady, maybe Romo, yes. Cutler no. Cutler for #20, I might. Cutler for their 2nd. Yes.

You overrate the value of the first pick. Eli Manning as a rookie was traded for TWO first round picks.

For a famly conscience NFL, that likes to brag about its anti-drug stance, it should of been a bigger suspension. Goodell likes to drop the hammer on any instance that makes the NFL look bad or ones that don't as long as they can fine a player (td celebrations), he sure didn't do it in this instance.

:whatever: 95% of kids don't follow NFL player news. Now teens will - but teens are exposed to that anyway.

[kane9321]

McDaniels choice might come back and bite the broncos in arse
cutler go to a team that wants you as their QB

[FaT_tONle]

Cutler for Quinn/Shaun Rodgers and a third.

Shaun Rodgers will be included in the deal, count it.

Who will play nose in Mangini's 3-4 :huh:... unless there is a guy in the draft....

On a side note... man I am going to miss those Rivers/Cutler shouting matches... that rivalry was becoming Brady/Manning esque... would have liked to see it continue.... hopefully Cutler stays in the AFC. Who the **** wants to go to Detroit anyhow?

[The Incredible Hulk]

Cutler for Quinn/Shaun Rodgers and a third.

Shaun Rodgers will be included in the deal, count it.

I dont think Brady Quinn is the answer to the Broncos problems. In fact I think he has bust written all over him. I think you're like to see Cutler wind up in the NFC North with the Bears, Vikings, or god willing, the Lions. Each of them have packages of draft picks that could entice the Broncos moreso than Quinn.

1. They never lied :huh:

2. Cutler saying they initiated the talks is just flat out wrong :cwink:

3. McDaniels doesnt care either, because reguardless Cutler has no right to cry publically if they want to trade him because if they did, they can because McD runs the show and Cutler doesnt :up:

4. Cutler wanted McD to say that Jay was god and too good to go anywhere. McD said Cutler is god to them but is subjected to trade talks like very other player, and if the right deal ever came along to make the team better it would be, and that isnt what Jay wanted to hear :csad:

5. McD wont trade Cutler and force him to play ala Ocho Cinco, and the media will grow tired and inevitaboly begin to dislike Cutler and praise McD, therefore ensuring McD owns Cutler
:indy:

6. The tranformation from Josh McDaniels into Bill Belichick Jr. is complete :word:

They DID lie to him. When all of the Cassell rumors started flying two weeks ago, McDaniels denied he was ever on the block. And then his answer became "well anyone is tradeable." And now it's yes we did look at bringing in Cassell.

I think the point your missing in all of this in immediately blaming Cutler is that McDaniels has established no credibility as a head coach in the NFL. He's a young guy in his mid 30's who was an O-ccordinator for a few short seasons, in a system where they lose coaches every few years b/c of their success, and those coaches havent gone on to do much of anything. You dont come to a team, try to undercut their Pro Bowl QB to try and get a guy who had 1 nice season, and then lie to his face about it. This isn't 1969 where everyone just shuts up and falls in line with the head coach, especially one that has neve done anything in the league.


Who will play nose in Mangini's 3-4 :huh:... unless there is a guy in the draft....

On a side note... man I am going to miss those Rivers/Cutler shouting matches... that rivalry was becoming Brady/Manning esque... would have liked to see it continue.... hopefully Cutler stays in the AFC.

yeah except for all the championships and passing records, it was exactly like that. ;)

Who the **** wants to go to Detroit anyhow?

hey now. It's a clean slate. Teams can turn around quickly in the NFL. Plus. who wouldnt want to throw to Calvin Johnson?

[Immortalfire]

How ironic it would be, if Stafford does get picked by Detroit. He's a Bulldog, and Calvin is a Bug.

[RAMORE]

[If Cutler's on the block, Bucs need to grab him

March 15, 2009 10:13 PM


Posted by ESPN.com's Pat Yasinskas

They drafted "franchise'' quarterbacks who didn't work out in Vinny Testaverde and Trent Dilfer. For years now, they've been using patchwork QBs -- Shaun King, Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia.


NFL.com Video
The best moments from Jay Cutler in 2008.
Now, there's a growing chance the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have a chance to get their hands on a sure-fire franchise quarterback. That's Jay Cutler, who the Bucs tried to trade for a few weeks back. It didn't happen then and the Broncos came out and said they wouldn't be trading their quarterback.

But now it's time to re-examine that possibility. Cutler and the Broncos haven't put their differences aside and owner Pat Bowlen today admitted what the Broncos weren't admitting. Cutler officially could be on the block.

"I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback,'' Bowlen told The Denver Post.

The fact Bowlen is talking like that means Cutler could be available and the Bucs have to be watching. In fact, they should be acting. This is a chance for them to get the franchise quarterback Jon Gruden never could -- heck, Cutler would become the only franchise quarterback besides Doug Williams in Tampa Bay history.

The guy is 25 and has a huge arm. He'd be perfect in the new offense of coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski, who wants to throw downfield. Yeah, Cutler can pout at times and he's not always produced at critical times. But he's far better than anything the Bucs have (Luke McCown), or any available free agent or any quarterback that's going to be available at No. 19 in the draft.

The Bucs have done a nice job of overhauling their offense. They traded for tight end Kellen Winslow. They signed running back Derrick Ward. The placed the franchise tag on Antonio Bryant and have a very solid offensive line in place. Sure, they still need some role players on defense and, perhaps, a speed receiver.

But the one thing that could legitimize the new regime of coach Raheem Morris and general manager Mark Dominik would be to trade for Cutler. They tried to do it once before.

If that's an alternative again, the Bucs have to make it happen. Throw out a first-round pick and maybe another draft choice or two or even a player. Throw in some Cuban sandwiches, Tampa cigars or whatever it takes. Then, turn around and give Cutler a nice new contract to make him happy in his new home. The Bucs have the cap room to make all that happen.

A lot of fans were upset with the Bucs after Tampa Bay cut the likes of Derrick Brooks, Warrick Dunn, Joey Galloway and Ike Hilliard. They could make people start to forget those moves -- heck, they could make fans start to see the logic in those moves -- if they go out and get Cutler.]

I really like this suggestion but I'm still sort of holding out for Tim Tebow to go to my bucs.

[RAMORE]

A story from ESPN looking at NFC north candidates:

[Cutler makes some sense in the Black and Blue

March 16, 2009 9:00 AM

Posted by ESPN.com's Kevin Seifert

Cutler

A few weeks ago, we referred to the Jay Cutler story as "fun speculation" as it applied to the NFC North. You had three division teams expressing a desire to improve the quarterback position, but at the time there was no indication that Denver would be willing to trade Cutler to the Upper Midwest or anywhere else.

That drawback seems to have dissipated a bit after Sunday's news that Cutler has formally requested a trade. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen, meanwhile, told the Denver Post that "we might lose our star quarterback," a relatively shocking admission of defeat before trade talks begin.

So will Chicago, Detroit or Minnesota become serious players for Cutler? There is little doubt the topic is being discussed in each team headquarters Monday morning -- if it hasn't already been hashed through.

In the meantime, let's do a little hashing ourselves on behalf of those three Black and Blue cities (in alphabetical order, of course):

Chicago Bears

Current depth chart: Kyle Orton, Caleb Hanie, Brett Basanez
Key quote: "We have to stay focused on the quarterback position. You win because of the quarterback." (General manager Jerry Angelo early in the offseason.)
Cliff's notes: The Bears aren't sure if Orton is their long-term starter, but to this point they appear set to give him another season to prove himself.
Why Cutler makes sense: He was a Bears fan growing up, so it's likely he would accept a trade to Chicago. That's no small accomplishment for a player who appears to have some maintenance issues. Cutler has proved more in three years than Orton has in four and still has more room for improvement. The Bears could also offer the Broncos a short-term solution at the position by including Orton in the deal.
Why it's difficult to imagine: The Bears typically guard their draft picks and cash with equal passion. Is Chicago willing to pay its quarterback a premium salary, which a trade for Cutler would essentially require? For Cutler, you figure it would take upwards of $30 million in guaranteed money to complete a deal.
Detroit Lions

Current depth chart: Daunte Culpepper, Drew Stanton, Drew Henson
Key quote: "It's probably time to find a replacement for Bobby Layne." (Coach Jim Schwartz during the Lions' interview process.)
Cliff's notes: The Lions were involved in a potential three-way deal that would have netted Cutler late last month. They're facing the difficult decision of whether to draft Georgia's Matthew Stafford with the No. 1 overall pick next month.
Why Cutler makes sense: The Lions have the makings of a decent offense, especially if they use their top pick to solidify the offensive line. Scott Linehan is a quarterback-friendly coordinator, receiver Calvin Johnson is a rising star and tailback Kevin Smith is a reliable runner. A smart, strong-armed passer would bring it all together, and the Lions wouldn't have to pay Cutler much more than Stafford would be in line to receive. Finally, don't underestimate the excitement Cutler would bring to a fan base desperate for good news.
Why it's difficult to imagine: Frankly, it's hard to come up with many reasons to argue against this scenario. It's possible Cutler will want to avoid Detroit's rebuilding process. You also wonder if the Lions would want to give up multiple draft choices when they still have multiple holes to fill, especially on defense. But it's not often a 25-year-old Pro Bowl quarterback becomes available.
Minnesota Vikings

Current depth chart: Tarvaris Jackson, Sage Rosenfels, John David Booty
Key quote: "There is also an incredible range of scenarios that none of us could know about right now." (Coach Brad Childress at the combine last month, adding a caveat to plans for Jackson to compete with a veteran for the starting job.)
Cliff's notes: The Vikings acquired Sage Rosenfels to compete with Jackson before the Cutler saga began.
Why Cutler makes sense: The Vikings won the division last season with a talented roster that includes the NFL's best running back and a top 10 defense. Quarterback is one of their few question marks. Cutler succeeded in a West Coast system not unlike the one Minnesota uses, and Vikings owner Zygi Wilf has never been afraid to pay premium cash for top players. Why devote so many resources to other positions and ignore the most important one?
Why it's difficult to imagine: The Vikings, and Childress in particular, have a soft spot for Jackson and want him to succeed as their long-term quarterback. Acquiring Cutler would end that process once and for all. It would also gut their draft for the second consecutive year after the 2008 trade for defensive end Jared Allen. Earlier this month, vice president Rick Spielman said giving up another set of draft choices would "set the franchise back."]

I think the most dangerous pairing out there is to the Vikings they would be immediate contenders to me but they won't pull the trigger. Chicago aint gonna do it. The Lions make sense but only if they were going to take Stafford, as opposed to feeling more needs they have, would they consider this.

[RAMORE]

By the way don't know if it was announced here but the Patriots signed WR Galloway to a one year deal:up: I'm glad for Joey I hope he does well as number three.

[Dr. Evil]

Brad Childress' love of Tarvaris Jackson may cost him hos head coaching job. The guy is awful. If any other team had drafted him, he would have been a Wide Receiver.

[Go Web Go!]

Is there really a love for Jackson there? He benched him for Frerotte last season.

[Dr. Evil]

True.

Jags release Matt Jones.

[BlackLantern]

Is there really a love for Jackson there? He benched him for Frerotte last season.

Probably because of pressure from the front office...

[RAMORE]

Only in an attempt to light a fire under his butt. Then Frerotte played decent and he couldn't switch him back till he got hurt.

[Go Web Go!]

True.

Jags release Matt Jones.

Good.

[danielisthor]

You overrate the value of the first pick. Eli Manning as a rookie was traded for TWOrs first round picks.

Eli Manning was traded on draft day as the #1 pick to the Giants for thier 1st rounder (4th overall) and the Giants 3rd round pick in 2004 and the Giants 1st and 5th round picks in 2005. It was all done on draft day.

Giants recieved - Eli Manning

Chargers received - Philip Rivers and Nate Kaeding in 2004 and Shawne Merriman in 2005. They traded the 5th rounder to Tampa for OL Roman Oben.


So, as we can see, Cutler isn't worth the 1st overall pick in the draft.

[RAMORE]

Absolutely why that Cracker got a pass when a ton of other players would have been dropped is beyond me. He was a first round bust that should have been a back up QB or not taken at all.

Ps. I am a cracker so I can call him that:D

[Darthphere]

1. They never lied :huh:

2. Cutler saying they initiated the talks is just flat out wrong :cwink:

3. McDaniels doesnt care either, because reguardless Cutler has no right to cry publically if they want to trade him because if they did, they can because McD runs the show and Cutler doesnt :up:

4. Cutler wanted McD to say that Jay was god and too good to go anywhere. McD said Cutler is god to them but is subjected to trade talks like very other player, and if the right deal ever came along to make the team better it would be, and that isnt what Jay wanted to hear :csad:

5. McD wont trade Cutler and force him to play ala Ocho Cinco, and the media will grow tired and inevitaboly begin to dislike Cutler and praise McD, therefore ensuring McD owns Cutler
:indy:

6. The tranformation from Josh McDaniels into Bill Belichick Jr. is complete :word:

Stick to Boston sports because clearly, you have no idea what's going on outside of the tri-state area.

[Erzengel]

Stafford can drop from 1 to like 10 if the Broncos trade Cutler to the Lions.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Source: Lions, Broncos will discuss QB Jay Cutler

by Tom Kowalski Monday March 16, 2009, 8:25 AM


According to a league source, the Detroit Lions will continue to talk to the Denver Broncos about the possibility of acquiring quarterback Jay Cutler in a trade.
Cutler's anger with Denver initially began when he learned that the Lions and Tampa Bay Buccaneers were involved in active trade talks. An effort to mend fences reportedly has done more damage (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/16/report-cutler-wants-out-of-denver-asks-to-be-traded/)than good.

In a story that was originally reported by NFL.com, the Broncos were in trade discussions a couple of weeks ago with Detroit and Tampa Bay. The Broncos wanted those teams to acquire Matt Cassel from the Patriots and then turn around deal Cassel to them in exchange for Cutler.
The Lions have plenty of ammunition to use in a deal, they have five draft picks in the first 82 choices in the upcoming draft. But more teams are expected to enter the bidding for Cutler.



www.mlive.com/lions (http://www.mlive.com/lions)

[Dr. Evil]

So if Cutler is traded, Denver goes with Chris Simms?

[The Incredible Hulk]

No, they'd likely draft a QB. Whomever they deal to, would presumably give them a 1st round pick. They'd likely use that to take a QB or package that one and their own and move up a few spots to grab one. Or they could just wait and see who out of Stafford, Sanchez, or Freeman falls to them at 12.

[Dr. Evil]

Is Josh Freeman even worthy of a 1st round pick?

[Dark Donnie]

Is Josh Freeman even worthy of a 1st round pick?

Sounds like alot of teams are in love with him...The Jets included.

[Erzengel]

No, they'd likely draft a QB. Whomever they deal to, would presumably give them a 1st round pick. They'd likely package that one and their own and move up a few spots, or just wait and see who out of Stafford, Sanchez, or Freeman falls to them at 12.
If the Lions don't get Stafford, I don't see them falling past 10 (49ers).

[The Incredible Hulk]

If the Lions don't get Stafford, I don't see them falling past 10 (49ers).

True but then there's the trickle down effect on Sanchez, who would seem ideal for McDaniels.

[Darthphere]

All these QB's have bust written on them.

[Excel]

Depends where they go. Sanchez's decision making is farther along than Cutlers according to how he did in interviews and film sessions with coaches.

[Darthphere]

Yes, because when it comes down to a 2 minute drive in the Super Bowl, how he did in the film room and interviews counts.

[Cmill216]

Sanchez's decision making is farther along than Cutlers according to how he did in interviews and film sessions with coaches.

Until Sanchez throws for 4,500 yards and makes a Pro Bowl, that's the biggest piece of garbage I've ever heard.

[RAMORE]

:lmao:^

[Excel]

I meant Staffords, not Cutlers :o

[RAMORE]

Interesting specs on past #19 picks for buc fans:


A Good Spot

Mar 13, 2009 - In the spring of 1992, the Indianapolis Colts went into the NFL Draft in possession of an unusual bounty: the top two picks overall. No team had done that since 1958.

The Colts, now one of the league's most consistently successful teams, were coming off a 1-15 season in 1991. They hadn't won a playoff game since 1971, but had high hopes for a turnaround with the infusion of some top-notch talent.

It didn't quite work out that way. The Colts used those two picks on a pair of supposed defensive cornerstones, Steve Emtman and Quentin Coryatt, but didn't break through to the Super Bowl until 14 years later. Six of the top 12 players drafted in 1992 became Pro Bowlers in the NFL, but that did not including Emtman or Coryatt. The former was out of Indianapolis by 1995 and the latter would follow three years later.


The Colts picked first overall again in 1998 and fared much, much better with quarterback Peyton Manning, a sure Hall of Famer and the most indispensible player on Indy's 2006 championship team. But the construction of that Super Bowl team really began in the two previous drafts, and not at the first overall pick.

In 1996, Indianapolis picked 19th and made Marvin Harrison of Syracuse the fourth receiver off the board. A year later, the Colts were sitting at 19 again when they nabbed California offensive tackle Tarik Glenn. Harrison, who just finished his 13-year tenure in Indianapolis, has caught more passes than every player in NFL history save for Jerry Rice, Cris Carter and Tim Brown. Glenn solidified the critical left tackle position for more than a decade, starting all but six games during his career.



That's a remarkable haul for a pair of 19th-overall picks…or is it?

There is ample evidence that picking first overall, while the most obvious avenue to such superstars as Manning and Orlando Pace and Troy Aikman, is just about as risky as any pick in the opening round. On the other hand, a mid-round pick or even the post-draft free agency pickings can unearth long-term standouts. There were a total of 10 eventual Pro Bowlers drafted in that 1992 first round, and they went third, fourth, seventh, eighth, 11th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 26th and 28th.

Of course, that's fairly obvious, that any given pick can hit. But we're talking specifically about the 19th pick here, and what makes the Harrison/Glenn selections even more interesting is that they were near the front end of what has been a surprisingly good run for that spot.

Last year we analyzed the recent history of the 20th overall pick in preparation for the Bucs' turn in that spot, which they eventually used on Kansas cornerback Aqib Talib. If Talib's NFL career unfolds as successfully as his fine rookie year promised, he could soon be one of the most noteworthy #20 picks in recent years. The 10 previous players picked in that same spot have combined to produce two Pro Bowl seasons, both by wide receiver Javon Walker (2004, 2006).

That's not to say that Walker and #20 mates like Ebenezer Ekuban and Stockar McDougle have not had productive NFL careers, or that recent additions to the club such as Tamba Hali and Aaron Ross won't eventually emerge as all-stars. Still, the list seems light on obvious top-tier stars, and even Walker's career has hit some bumps in the last few years.

Compare that to the 19 Club. We expanded the list to the last 15 years this spring, simply to see if the #19s could stay on a roll. Not only did that unearth Harrison and Glenn, but it also extended to two-time Pro Bowler Todd Steussie, who started 185 career games, including a handful with the Buccaneers.

Here are the last 15 players taken 19th overall in the NFL Draft:

YEAR TEAM PLAYER Notes
2008 Carolina T Jeff Otah Started right in as RT starter as a rookie
2007 Tennessee S Michael Griffin Tied for 2nd in NFL with 7 INTs in '08
2006 San Diego CB Antonio Cromartie A Pro Bowler by his 2nd season
2005 St. Louis T Alex Barron Started 58 of 64 games in first 4 yrs.
2004 Miami G Vernon Carey 64 starts in 5 yrs. at RT and LT
2003 Baltimore QB Kyle Boller 42 career starts, spent '08 on IR
2002 Denver WR Ashley Lelie 4 teams, 91 catches in last 4 years
2001 Pittsburgh DT Casey Hampton 4 Pro Bowls in first 8 years
2000 Seattle RB Shaun Alexander NFL MVP in 2005; 3 Pro Bowls
1999 N.Y. Giants T Luke Petitgout Versatile starter; 110 starts in 9 seasons
1998 Green Bay DT Vonnie Holliday 51.5 sacks in 11 seasons, 5 in GB
1997 Indianapolis T Tarik Glenn 154 career starts, 3 Pro Bowls
1996 Indianapolis WR Marvin Harrison 1,042 receptions, 4th in NFL history
1995 Jacksonville RB James Stewart Career: 5,841 yards, 48 TDs
1994 Minnesota T Todd Steussie 213 games, 185 starts, 2 Pro Bowls


Last year's #19, tackle Jeff Otah, hasn't had much time to build up Pro Bowl credentials, but he did step immediately into the starting right tackle job for the NFC South-champion Carolina Panthers. The two #19 picks before him have already made it to the all-star game, with Tennessee safety Michael Griffin going last year after a huge, seven-interception season and San Diego cornerback Antonio Cromartie getting the nod in 2007. Both have the look of secondary stars for years to come.

In addition to Otah, four other offensive linemen have gone at #19 in the last 15 years – Steussie, New York Giants tackle Luke Petitgout, St. Louis tackle Alex Barron and Miami guard/tackle Vernon Carey – and all were or have been career-long starters. Petitgout, like Steussie, ended up in Tampa for a short stint.

Pittsburgh defensive tackle Casey Hampton has been a Pro Bowl selection in four of his eight seasons and is one of the league's premier interior linemen. Former Seattle running back Shaun Alexander has an NFL MVP trophy on his mantle and defensive tackle Vonnie Holliday is halfway to 100 sacks.

Running back James Stewart never made a Pro Bowl but had a productive career in Jacksonville and Detroit and peaked at 1,184 yards and 10 touchdowns as a Lion in 2000.

None of the 15 names on the list scream "bust" too loudly. Kyle Boller hasn't solved the Ravens' quarterback situation since coming off the board at #19 in 2003, but he does have 42 career starts and might still emerge as a starter in Baltimore or elsewhere. It's reasonable to say that wide receiver Ashley Lelie hasn't worked out as Denver would have hoped in 2002, but he has 210 receptions and his career average of 17.1 yards per catch suggests he has big-play potential that might still be tapped.

With 32 teams in the league in the modern era, the 19th pick falls almost at the middle of the opening stanza. It was actually a second-round choice prior to 1967, when the AFL and NFL began drafting together, making it a 26-team process. The first #19 who could also call himself a first-rounder was Arkansas running back Harry Jones, who went to the Eagles. Jones played sparingly over four seasons for Philadelphia, rushing a total of 44 times for 85 yards.

Philadelphia also executed the first #19 pick ever, taking Stanford center Wes Muller with that pick, the first one of the third round, in the inaugural draft of 1936. Muller never played for the Eagles, and his 1937 successor, Green Bay tackle Ave Daniell appeared in only five games for the Packers. In 1944, the Lions drafted USC All-America tight end Ralph Heywood after Heywood had played one season with the Chicago Rockets of the rival All-America Football Conference. Heywood's NFL career only lasted four years but he was a Marine Corps officer for 32 years and the only NFL player to serve in World War II, the Korean War and the Vietnam War.

Some more recent notables who came into the league as the 19th overall pick include Saints defensive end Wayne Martin (1989), Vikings (and Buccaneers) guard Randall McDaniel (1988), Colts guard Ron Solt (1984), Vikings safety Joey Browner (1983), Bears linebacker Otis Wilson (1980), Cardinals cornerback Roger Wehrli (1969), Colts tight end John Mackey (1963) and Lions guard Dick Stanfel (1951). McDaniel just joined Wehrli and Mackey in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

The club of 19th overall picks also produces one coincidental and uneasy pairing. In a preseason game in 1978, New England wide receiver Darryl Stingley suffered a spinal cord injury that left him paralyzed after he was hit by Oakland defensive back Jack Tatum. Tatum was the 19th overall pick in 1971; Stingley was the 19th overall pick two years later.

Though several of the #19 picks eventually suited up as Buccaneers, Tampa Bay has never made that specific selection in the first round. The Bucs appeared to hit a home run with the 20th overall selection a year ago; now they will try to sustain the remarkable league-wide run at #19.

[The Incredible Hulk]

^ thats one of the biggest "puff" pieces I've ever read. I never understood the people who go around saying "well X star was picked with this pick in the draft, so it's a good omen, etc."

[RAMORE]

I agree it is a puff piece. However a friend of mine was complaining that no star had ever been picked at 19 so I saw that and decided to send it to him. You still have to pick the right guy at 19.

[Go Web Go!]

Yes, because when it comes down to a 2 minute drive in the Super Bowl, how he did in the film room and interviews counts.

He also got a terrific score on the Wonderlic. That's a franchise QB if I've ever seen one. :o

[KALEL114]

Patriots appear primed to make move for Peppers

The trade that sent Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs appears to be only the first phase of some major wheeling and dealing by the New England Patriots this offseason.

The second phase, NFL sources say, is likely to involve a trade that would send Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers to the Patriots in exchange for the second-round pick (34th overall) they received from the Chiefs on Feb. 28.

More.....
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f48fa8&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[Cmill216]

To say that's a steal would be an understatement.

[That-Guy]

Cutler going to the Lions would be interesting to watch. If he leads them to a winning season (and the Broncos bottom out), McDaniels could be out of a job by this time next year. However, this is the Lions we're talking about here... and if they acquire Cutler and DON'T do well, then people will be saying McD was right to let him go and Detroit is a fitting place for him because he sucks, blah blah blah.

[Showtime]

Patriots appear primed to make move for Peppers

The trade that sent Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs appears to be only the first phase of some major wheeling and dealing by the New England Patriots this offseason.

The second phase, NFL sources say, is likely to involve a trade that would send Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers to the Patriots in exchange for the second-round pick (34th overall) they received from the Chiefs on Feb. 28.

More.....
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f48fa8&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Wow. Big move if it goes through.

[StorminNorman]

Depends where they go. Sanchez's decision making is farther along than Cutlers according to how he did in interviews and film sessions with coaches.

According to some Stafford gave one of the all time best performances in interviews.

Eli Manning was traded on draft day as the #1 pick to the Giants for thier 1st rounder (4th overall) and the Giants 3rd round pick in 2004 and the Giants 1st and 5th round picks in 2005. It was all done on draft day.

Giants recieved - Eli Manning

Chargers received - Philip Rivers and Nate Kaeding in 2004 and Shawne Merriman in 2005. They traded the 5th rounder to Tampa for OL Roman Oben.


So, as we can see, Cutler isn't worth the 1st overall pick in the draft.

So..as you see - Cutler is worth far more than the first overall pick. I think Eli Manning and Jay Cutler are very similar in their value - one has better numbers, one has a Super Bowl.

So Eli Manning was traded for by the Giants. The Giants gave up a LOT more value than the first pick in the draft.

So if the Giants - a good, well run organization - sees a franchise QB is worth a lot more than simply a top draft pick, I think thats a good perspective on this argument.

Either way Denver will not go to Detroit. I don't think Denver wants the number one pick because...well...almost no teams want the first round pick. Denver wouldn't even consider a deal that consists of pick 20 as the highest value trade piece either.

Stafford can drop from 1 to like 10 if the Broncos trade Cutler to the Lions.

If Stafford slips by the Lions things get very interesting. I think its more likely a team trades up into the top 10 to get Stafford though than him slipping out of it.

www.mlive.com/lions (http://www.mlive.com/lions)

So this probably means Denver and Detroit will never talk about Cutler.

The reality is that Detroit being a real landing spot for Detroit is a huge smoke screen. Detroit has almost no chance at getting Cutler because they don't have anything Denver wants. A post-Cutler Denver needs a QB...which Detroit can't offer. They need a defensive line...and Detroit has just traded its only DL of any value they will trade. They need some linebackers...Detroit isn't trading Peterson and while Ernie Simms could be expendable his value isn't all that great right now.

I don't think Detroit is going to trade two first round picks for Cutler - it would be a terrible trade for them.

So if Cutler is traded, Denver goes with Chris Simms?

No. I can't see Denver making a trade that lacks a QB. Denver's starting QB could be Jake Delhomme, or Brady Quinn.

No, they'd likely draft a QB. Whomever they deal to, would presumably give them a 1st round pick. They'd likely use that to take a QB or package that one and their own and move up a few spots to grab one. Or they could just wait and see who out of Stafford, Sanchez, or Freeman falls to them at 12.

I can't see McDaniels relying on a rookie to lead his team. If he does, he is doomed. McDaniels can't afford to spend 2009 as a rebuilding year, which is exactly what happens when you start a rookie QB. McDaniels needs to win now, he needs a veteran QB. He needs Brady Quinn.

If the Lions don't get Stafford, I don't see them falling past 10 (49ers).

I don't think the 49ers will take a starting QB in the first round. Stafford could make them consider it, but I really don't think San Fran is considering it. I think they are a team that could take a QB like Cullen Harper late. Harper is a guy that has shown the ability to be an NFL QB, but he had a terrible senior season. His team, though, went through a terrible year on many fronts. I think he is untapped potential. And he can also probably be taken in round 5 where many thought he would of been a first round pick a year ago.

All these QB's have bust written on them.

I disagree. I think Stafford is one of the best QB prospects in a long, long time.

Patriots appear primed to make move for Peppers

The trade that sent Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs appears to be only the first phase of some major wheeling and dealing by the New England Patriots this offseason.

The second phase, NFL sources say, is likely to involve a trade that would send Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers to the Patriots in exchange for the second-round pick (34th overall) they received from the Chiefs on Feb. 28.

More.....
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f48fa8&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Surely they are mistaken. I could see Carolina trading Peppers to the Patriots for a deal INCLUDING the 34th pick. Maybe even just New England's first round and the 34th pick.

[Mastodon123]

I can't see McDaniels relying on a rookie to lead his team. If he does, he is doomed. McDaniels can't afford to spend 2009 as a rebuilding year, which is exactly what happens when you start a rookie QB.

This is exactly why the Lions shouldn't take their chances with Stafford, or any rookie QB this year.

[The Incredible Hulk]

So..as you see - Cutler is worth far more than the first overall pick. I think Eli Manning and Jay Cutler are very similar in their value - one has better numbers, one has a Super Bowl.



So Eli Manning was traded for by the Giants. The Giants gave up a LOT more value than the first pick in the draft.



So if the Giants - a good, well run organization - sees a franchise QB is worth a lot more than simply a top draft pick, I think thats a good perspective on this argument.



I dont see how that applies here? Manning was a draft day trade that was pre-arranged and amounted to a swapping of draft picks. it's apples and oranges to try and compare that to a swap of a vet player for picks. NFL teams value draft picks above most all else. Look at the market for QB's that have been traded recently. At best, Cutler warrants the 20th pick. Add in the fact that he's disgrunteld to the point the Broncos have to move him, and it's a no brainer.



Either way Denver will not go to Detroit. I don't think Denver wants the number one pick because...well...almost no teams want the first round pick. Denver wouldn't even consider a deal that consists of pick 20 as the highest value trade piece either.



Where are you getting this? They almost just traded him for what amounted to a second round pick. A QB who has only played 14 career games who a team overpaid for with a 2nd round pick.





So this probably means Denver and Detroit will never talk about Cutler.



They already have, hence the whole fiasco in the first place. Why is it unbelievable that they'd do so again/ espeically with Cutler wanting out?





The reality is that Detroit being a real landing spot for Detroit is a huge smoke screen. Detroit has almost no chance at getting Cutler because they don't have anything Denver wants. A post-Cutler Denver needs a QB...which Detroit can't offer. They need a defensive line...and Detroit has just traded its only DL of any value they will trade. They need some linebackers...Detroit isn't trading Peterson and while Ernie Simms could be expendable his value isn't all that great right now.



They have 5 picks in the Top 82. They absolutely have what any team wants. Every position you listed, can be addressed through those picks. That's how new coaching staffs tend to like to work.





I don't think Detroit is going to trade two first round picks for Cutler - it would be a terrible trade for them.



Of course it would be. Then again it would be ridiculous for the Broncos to even ask for that.





I can't see McDaniels relying on a rookie to lead his team. If he does, he is doomed. McDaniels can't afford to spend 2009 as a rebuilding year, which is exactly what happens when you start a rookie QB. McDaniels needs to win now, he needs a veteran QB. He needs Brady Quinn.

Brady Quinn has THREE career starts, two of which he looked horrible in. For all intents and purposes, he IS a rookie.

[Excel]

Brady Quinn was hardly impressive however he'd have a much better surrounding cast on the Broncos o than the one he had in Cleveland, as well as a coach whose groomed arguably the greatest QB ever(McD was worked with Brady personally since 2001) and another who made an absurd amount of progress in just one season and seems primed for a bright future.

McDaniels could make Quinn into a EDITED: star, pro bowler is a stretch- in one season, especially throwing to Marshall, Royakl, and possibly Schefter.

Patriots appear primed to make move for Peppers

The trade that sent Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs appears to be only the first phase of some major wheeling and dealing by the New England Patriots this offseason.

The second phase, NFL sources say, is likely to involve a trade that would send Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers to the Patriots in exchange for the second-round pick (34th overall) they received from the Chiefs on Feb. 28.

More.....
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f48fa8&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

That cant just be it. Maybe Seymour and the 34th pick? That would just a be a ****ing joke.

[Scarlet spidey]

Jackson will get benched. Vikings will attend the Super Bowl this year. I have seen it happen.
:(

[FaT_tONle]

Carolina lost their one to the Eagles... maybe they are looking to get back into the draft picture. Patriots usually get the better of these deals. Wouldn't suprise me if that fell through. NE also has SD's 2nd.... maybe two second round picks would just about do it.

[Excel]

Word is New England is in love with Rey Maualuga. They may use their 4 day 1 picks to trade for those 2.

If Goodell wants next season to be fair he ought to step in. For real, if the Patriots ever decided to blitz Adalius Thomas, Julius Peppers, Jerod Mayo, Maualuga, & Meriweather all at once in addition to Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren upfront...no QB would survive the game. All of those guys outside of Meriweather get double coeverage on most plays, and Meriweather has that hit stick going on.

If those deals go through and Brady stays healthy, the 2009 Patriots could potentially be significantly better than the 2007 Patriots. :eek: :up: :up:

[StorminNorman]

I dont see how that applies here? Manning was a draft day trade that was pre-arranged and amounted to a swapping of draft picks. it's apples and oranges to try and compare that to a swap of a vet player for picks. NFL teams value draft picks above most all else. Look at the market for QB's that have been traded recently. At best, Cutler warrants the 20th pick. Add in the fact that he's disgrunteld to the point the Broncos have to move him, and it's a no brainer.

Manning was drafted before any trade was made. Rivers was drafted before any trade was made. While essentially it is simply trading the number one pick for number four, the value is different.

I do agree that it IS different than trading a vet player - a vet player is worth MORE.

When was the last time a franchise QB got traded? It doesn't happen. Why? Well normally you never trade a franchise QB, and when you do - you get major bank. If nothing else Cutler warrants more than the 20th pick simply because Tampa is offering 19.

The best case scenario for the number one pick in the draft? You get a franchise leader. If the Lions could draft Pro Bowler Jay Cutler with the first pick in the draft - they would do it. Period. It would be illogical not to.

Also Cutler is worth more than pick 20 simply because Tampa is offering 19.

Where are you getting this? They almost just traded him for what amounted to a second round pick. A QB who has only played 14 career games who a team overpaid for with a 2nd round pick.

:huh:

They never tried to trade Cutler for Cassel. They were trying to trade Cutler for a first and third round pick, both 19th in the draft.

They already have, hence the whole fiasco in the first place. Why is it unbelievable that they'd do so again/ espeically with Cutler wanting out?

They talked, Detroit made an offer and that offer was inferior to Tampa's. I think Detroit talked to Denver a few weeks ago because they would logically want to see how much it would take to get Cutler. Detroit's offer was a 2-1 and another pick. Tampa's was 1-19 and 3-19. If Cassel DID go to Tampa, Cutler was going to go to Tampa - not Detroit.

They have 5 picks in the Top 82. They absolutely have what any team wants. Every position you listed, can be addressed through those picks. That's how new coaching staffs tend to like to work.

No, they don't.

Picks are not as valuable as real players. Cutler is always worth more than the number one pick. Julius Peppers is always worth more than a first round pick. Proven NFL players are ALWAYS more valuable than draft picks.

And Detroit CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS. They can't afford to offer more than one day one pick. Period. They need every one of those picks.
Of course it would be. Then again it would be ridiculous for the Broncos to even ask for that.

Actually it wouldn't be ridiculous at all. Honestly that's how much Cutler should cost. Teams trade multiple first rounder's all the time in order to get that franchise QB in the draft, here is the chance to do that same sort of trade for a Pro Bowl player.



Brady Quinn has THREE career starts, two of which he looked horrible in. For all intents and purposes, he IS a rookie.[/quote]

Brady Quinn was hardly impressive however he'd have a much better surrounding cast on the Broncos o than the one he had in Cleveland, as well as a coach whose groomed arguably the greatest QB ever(McD was worked with Brady personally since 2001) and another who made an absurd amount of progress in just one season and seems primed for a bright future.

McDaniels could make Quinn into a EDITED: star, pro bowler is a stretch- in one season, especially throwing to Marshall, Royakl, and possibly Schefter.



That cant just be it. Maybe Seymour and the 34th pick? That would just a be a ****ing joke.

This is exactly why the Lions shouldn't take their chances with Stafford, or any rookie QB this year.

*head explodes*

Detroit is going to have to get a QB. Period. Detroit is going to need a real QB. They have a real passing threat, they have to take advantage of that. If they don't get Cutler (which they won't) they are going to HAVE to draft a QB next year. But Detroit has no idea how the season's going to go, they could win four games while two other teams win less than that. Or maybe six teams. Or maybe they do get another first round pick. They don't know.

They have no idea what the QB class of next year will look like. What if Sam Bradford gets hurt? What if Colt McCoy has a bad senior season? What if simply the QB class of 2010 is WORSE than 2009 (it can happen).

Detroit needs a QB to base this franchise around. They need to build around a QB - if they can get Cutler, build around Cutler. If they like Sanchez more than Stafford - take Sanchez. But if you think Stafford is the best QB in this draft, if you think Stafford could live up to the potential he has - then you take him.

The bottom line is that trying to compare the situation with Denver (a team that was a game removed from the playoffs) to Detroit (getting off the worst season of all time) is completely ridiculous and illogical.

[Darthphere]

I mean, I don't have the faith Norm does in Stafford, but look at what Matt Ryan did last year in Hotlanta. Seriously, the Lions get a decent running game going, they can go places even with an average QB.

[Excel]

Atlanta had more than just a decent running game (decent is a bit of an understatement anyways); their oline could pass block very well too (which Detroits cant) and they had one elite wide reciever in White, a good one in Michael Jenkins, as well as an excellent recieving back. Alone they arent effective but together defenses cant cover all of them. Detroit has one elite wide reciever and nothing else, which makes that one player much easier to defend.

If Detroit can get Cutler for a deal outside of both 1st round picks, I think its kind of obvious theyd be crazy to pass up that chance. Cutler isnt nearly as risky as Stafford plus they can still get a left tackle. Then theyd atleast have a legit offense.

[danielisthor]

New England's Draft Positions

1-23
2-34
2-47
2-58

I see them going Defense in all 4 spots. Even if they trade a pick or so for Peppers.

Does anybody know when compensation picks are awarded?

[Darthphere]

Atlanta had more than just a decent running game (decent is a bit of an understatement anyways); their oline could pass block very well too (which Detroits cant) and they had one elite wide reciever in White, a good one in Michael Jenkins, as well as an excellent recieving back. Alone they arent effective but together defenses cant cover all of them. Detroit has one elite wide reciever and nothing else, which makes that one player much easier to defend.

If Detroit can get Cutler for a deal outside of both 1st round picks, I think its kind of obvious theyd be crazy to pass up that chance. Cutler isnt nearly as risky as Stafford plus they can still get a left tackle. Then theyd atleast have a legit offense.

I stopped reading there. He had a monster year, but elite? The Jury is still out on that one.

[StorminNorman]

Word is New England is in love with Rey Maualuga. They may use their 4 day 1 picks to trade for those 2.

I could see that. Maualuga will likely still be on the table when the Patriots first round pick comes to down. I haven't been high on Maualuga at all - the fact the Patriot's organization is makes me want to take a third look.

If Goodell wants next season to be fair he ought to step in. For real, if the Patriots ever decided to blitz Adalius Thomas, Julius Peppers, Jerod Mayo, Maualuga, & Meriweather all at once in addition to Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren upfront...no QB would survive the game. All of those guys outside of Meriweather get double coeverage on most plays, and Meriweather has that hit stick going on.

I would love to see them try that against the Cardinals. The score would be in the triple digits.

If those deals go through and Brady stays healthy, the 2009 Patriots could potentially be significantly better than the 2007 Patriots. :eek: :up: :up:

Since I think Seymore, Warren and Thomas were significantly better than in 2007 than 2009, I disagree.

I mean, I don't have the faith Norm does in Stafford, but look at what Matt Ryan did last year in Hotlanta. Seriously, the Lions get a decent running game going, they can go places even with an average QB.

I agree. Detroit's moves this off season have been great. They have brought in solid defensive starters, and their offense has great potential. While I would simply be foolish to predict anything like Atlanta or Miami happening with a team that just went 0-16, its not so foolish to state that Atlanta at the end of 2007 was in a worse than Detroit is now.

Atlanta had more than just a decent running game (decent is a bit of an understatement anyways); their oline could pass block very well too (which Detroits cant) and they had one elite wide reciever in White, a good one in Michael Jenkins, as well as an excellent recieving back. Alone they arent effective but together defenses cant cover all of them. Detroit has one elite wide reciever and nothing else, which makes that one player much easier to defend.

White's didn't play on an "elite" level until last year.

Atlanta's offensive line was suspect last year, just like Detroits is now. Detroit has added some depth with Loper and they will likely add a rookie who could start in the draft (just like Atlanta). Detroit already has an elite WR in Johnson, a good one in B. Johnson and a great receiving back in Morris. Combine that with Kevin Smith and the potential for a franchise QB and you have a great, young offense.

If Detroit can get Cutler for a deal outside of both 1st round picks, I think its kind of obvious theyd be crazy to pass up that chance. Cutler isnt nearly as risky as Stafford plus they can still get a left tackle. Then theyd atleast have a legit offense.

They could get Stafford and a left tackle, but thats beside the point. I agree, if Detroit can get a deal that includes anything less than two day one picks, its an obvious do. And if I could had x-ray vision I would spend a lot more time stalking hot chicks :lips:

New England's Draft Positions

1-23
2-34
2-47
2-58

I see them going Defense in all 4 spots. Even if they trade a pick or so for Peppers.

I agree. I think Defense is obviously the number one priority for New England.

Does anybody know when compensation picks are awarded?

I think early April, but I could be wrong. Compensation picks need to be done with anyway.

I stopped reading there. He had a monster year, but elite? The Jury is still out on that one.

Darth, I wish your keen sense of logic was contagious.

[kane9321]

Just heard on espn...that juilius peppers will be a patriot(yeah). Something about a three way deal with KC and Carolina

[Dark Donnie]

Clayton says it will take more then a 2nd to land him

[StorminNorman]

Just heard on espn...that juilius peppers will be a patriot(yeah). Something about a three way deal with KC and Carolina

If Carolina really only gets a 2nd round pick out of Peppers, they are idiots. Giant, flaming idiots.

[StorminNorman]

The idea that Carolina would prefer a second round pick over a first because of money doesn't pass the logic test anyway. If they get rid of Peppers, a lot of cap room is free.

[The Game]

Patriots appear primed to make move for Peppers

The trade that sent Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs appears to be only the first phase of some major wheeling and dealing by the New England Patriots this offseason.

The second phase, NFL sources say, is likely to involve a trade that would send Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers to the Patriots in exchange for the second-round pick (34th overall) they received from the Chiefs on Feb. 28.

More.....
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f48fa8&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/disqo/51.gif

[Mastodon123]

Manning was drafted before any trade was made. Rivers was drafted before any trade was made. While essentially it is simply trading the number one pick for number four, the value is different.

I do agree that it IS different than trading a vet player - a vet player is worth MORE.

When was the last time a franchise QB got traded? It doesn't happen. Why? Well normally you never trade a franchise QB, and when you do - you get major bank. If nothing else Cutler warrants more than the 20th pick simply because Tampa is offering 19.

The best case scenario for the number one pick in the draft? You get a franchise leader. If the Lions could draft Pro Bowler Jay Cutler with the first pick in the draft - they would do it. Period. It would be illogical not to.

Also Cutler is worth more than pick 20 simply because Tampa is offering 19.



:huh:

They never tried to trade Cutler for Cassel. They were trying to trade Cutler for a first and third round pick, both 19th in the draft.



They talked, Detroit made an offer and that offer was inferior to Tampa's. I think Detroit talked to Denver a few weeks ago because they would logically want to see how much it would take to get Cutler. Detroit's offer was a 2-1 and another pick. Tampa's was 1-19 and 3-19. If Cassel DID go to Tampa, Cutler was going to go to Tampa - not Detroit.



No, they don't.

Picks are not as valuable as real players. Cutler is always worth more than the number one pick. Julius Peppers is always worth more than a first round pick. Proven NFL players are ALWAYS more valuable than draft picks.

And Detroit CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS. They can't afford to offer more than one day one pick. Period. They need every one of those picks.


Actually it wouldn't be ridiculous at all. Honestly that's how much Cutler should cost. Teams trade multiple first rounder's all the time in order to get that franchise QB in the draft, here is the chance to do that same sort of trade for a Pro Bowl player.



Brady Quinn has THREE career starts, two of which he looked horrible in. For all intents and purposes, he IS a rookie.





*head explodes*

Detroit is going to have to get a QB. Period. Detroit is going to need a real QB. They have a real passing threat, they have to take advantage of that. If they don't get Cutler (which they won't) they are going to HAVE to draft a QB next year. But Detroit has no idea how the season's going to go, they could win four games while two other teams win less than that. Or maybe six teams. Or maybe they do get another first round pick. They don't know.

They have no idea what the QB class of next year will look like. What if Sam Bradford gets hurt? What if Colt McCoy has a bad senior season? What if simply the QB class of 2010 is WORSE than 2009 (it can happen).

Detroit needs a QB to base this franchise around. They need to build around a QB - if they can get Cutler, build around Cutler. If they like Sanchez more than Stafford - take Sanchez. But if you think Stafford is the best QB in this draft, if you think Stafford could live up to the potential he has - then you take him.

The bottom line is that trying to compare the situation with Denver (a team that was a game removed from the playoffs) to Detroit (getting off the worst season of all time) is completely ridiculous and illogical.

This is what doesn't make any sense.


I can't see McDaniels relying on a rookie to lead his team. If he does, he is doomed. McDaniels can't afford to spend 2009 as a rebuilding year, which is exactly what happens when you start a rookie QB.

Yet your ga ga for the Lions drafting Stafford and building the franchise around him. Contradict much?

[NewYorkSpider]

If Carolina really only gets a 2nd round pick out of Peppers, they are idiots. Giant, flaming idiots.

I agree. Peppers is worth more than a second rounder.

[StorminNorman]

Yet your ga ga for the Lions drafting Stafford and building the franchise around him. Contradict much?

No. Not at all.

Detroit went 0-16, no matter what they do they are in rebuilding mode. They hired their coach KNOWING they were going into a rebuilding mode. Their expectations are low...because they KNOW they are in a rebuilding mode.

Denver went 8-8 and was one game away from the playoffs. They are not in rebuilding mode. They didn't get their coach to rebuild the team, but improve it. Their expecations are high...because they KNOW what they did last season.

[BlackLantern]

I have no sympathy for Matt Jones

[StorminNorman]

Matt Jones should be the poster boy for White Trash.

[Mastodon123]

No. Not at all.

Detroit went 0-16, no matter what they do they are in rebuilding mode. They hired their coach KNOWING they were going into a rebuilding mode. Their expectations are low...because they KNOW they are in a rebuilding mode.
.You can't expect the Lions to be re-built in a year. Going after a QB right away in the draft is a huge risk. The Lions are going position they've been in the last decade if Stafford fails like Harrington did. They can't make the same mistakes again.

[danielisthor]

Lions should work the draft like the Dolphins did last year. Build the lines. If Culpepper has a line in front of him, he'll be okay this season. The Lions are rebuilding, there's no reason to overpay, whether in money, picks or both on a Qb, when the rest of the team is subpar. I'm not saying the Lions will make a big turnaround but just draft smart fill your holes and make wise decisions. If they take as a QB in the draft, they'll be wise to make sure he doesn't see the field unless in mop up duty. There's plenty of "veteran" qb's out there if Culpepper gets injured. Better one of them gets their brains beat in than your 80million golden boy Stafford if you take him at #1.

The smart move for them would be to take the Baylor tackle. It'll save them almost 10million in bonus if they take Jason Smith over Matthew Stafford. Stafford as the number 1 will be looking for more money than what Matt Ryan got at #3 last year (6yrs 72million w/ 34.7million guaranteed compared to Jake Long's 5yrs - 57.75milion w/ 30million guaranteed). Hold out for Sanchez or Freeman at #20 or move up if you want or need to.

Just my opinion.

[StorminNorman]

You can't expect the Lions to be re-built in a year. Going after a QB right away in the draft is a huge risk. The Lions are going position they've been in the last decade if Stafford fails like Harrington did. They can't make the same mistakes again.

You really need to get over Joey Harrington. He isn't hiding in your closet. He can't hurt you, or the Lions, any more. If Stafford fails, yes it puts back the franchise. But if Stafford SUCCEEDS then your franchise thrives. Unless you are Baltimore you need a good QB to have a successful franchise.

Every pick has risks. Period. Linebacker is a "more safe pick" only because no one selects with the first pick. Offensive tackle is a "more safe pick" only because if a offensive lineman fails, you rarely see it. A QB throws a pick, its easy to boo. An offensive lineman fails and makes the QB rush his pass causing an interception you boo...at the Quaterback.

Lions should work the draft like the Dolphins did last year. Build the lines.

I would prefer drafting like Atlanta. Miami lucked out BIG TIME by getting Pennington. If Pennington wasn't available thanks to Brett, Miami is picking in the top 10.

If Culpepper has a line in front of him, he'll be okay this season. The Lions are rebuilding, there's no reason to overpay, whether in money, picks or both on a Qb, when the rest of the team is subpar. I'm not saying the Lions will make a big turnaround but just draft smart fill your holes and make wise decisions. If they take as a QB in the draft, they'll be wise to make sure he doesn't see the field unless in mop up duty. There's plenty of "veteran" qb's out there if Culpepper gets injured. Better one of them gets their brains beat in than your 80million golden boy Stafford if you take him at #1.

It worked for P Manning, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, .etc.

Name the last time a franchise made a turn around without obtaining a young, franchise QB.

The smart move for them would be to take the Baylor tackle. It'll save them almost 10million in bonus if they take Jason Smith over Matthew Stafford. Stafford as the number 1 will be looking for more money than what Matt Ryan got at #3 last year (6yrs 72million w/ 34.7million guaranteed compared to Jake Long's 5yrs - 57.75milion w/ 30million guaranteed). Hold out for Sanchez or Freeman at #20 or move up if you want or need to.

Just my opinion.

You don't hold out if you think Stafford's the best QB.

[danielisthor]

If you think Stafford and Sanchez are close to equal, do you overpay Stafford at #1 or risk Sanchez at #20?

[Mastodon123]

It worked for P Manning, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, .etc.

Name the last time a franchise made a turn around without obtaining a young, franchise QB.

This year, Kurt Warner and the Cardnials and Chad Pennington with the Dolphins.

Teams just don't turn around by drafting a really skilled QB, its really a team effort.

[Alex The Great]

This year, Kurt Warner and the Cardnials.

Teams just don't turn around by drafting a really skilled QB, its really a team effort.
*cough* Tom Brady.

Sure he was a 6th round pick, but he saved his teams ass.

[Mastodon123]

*cough* Tom Brady.

Sure h ewas a 6th round pick, buthe saved his teams ass.

He sat on the bench for a year though, and the team was never in the need a of a rebuilding. Brady is a different situation. He was really the last piece of the puzzle to get his team to the Superbowl.

[NewYorkSpider]

If you think Stafford and Sanchez are close to equal, do you overpay Stafford at #1 or risk Sanchez at #20?

For the Lions, there's no guarantee where Sanchez will get drafted. They can't just pass on Stafford and hope Sanchez falls to a particular spot. I've been saying for months that they need to draft like the Falcons last season. QB first, OT second.(Lion fans sound EXACTLY like Falcon fans last season. It's Stafford instead of Ryan and J.Smith instead of Dorsey) If the Lions pass on Stafford, it could be a huge mistake.

[NotFadeAway]

The Lions should take Aaron Curry #1 overall, and then take Eben Britton with the #20th pick. Try and trade down with the Patriots or Dolphins in the 2nd and acquire an extra number two. No one is talking about Britton, but he reminds me of Ryan Clady and I think he will suprise alot of folks and be a better player than Andre Smith or Jason Smith.

Ya know, and this doesn't just go for the Lions, but other teams as well, with all this Cutler trade talk, there is another Quarterback out there who I would consider trading for, a guy you would give up far less for. His name is Tyler Thigpen, and I really believe he will be a quality Quarterback in this league. The Lions should try and get him. Same with the Carolina Panthers.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Manning was drafted before any trade was made. Rivers was drafted before any trade was made. While essentially it is simply trading the number one pick for number four, the value is different.

Manning was taken by the Chargers with the sole intention of flipping him to another team. The Giants called them, and drafted Rivers and they swapped picks. A draft day trade is a draft day trade, it was picks for picks, regardless of it happened 10 minutes after Manning was drafted.


I do agree that it IS different than trading a vet player - a vet player is worth MORE.

that depends on the player and the guys available in the draft.


When was the last time a franchise QB got traded? It doesn't happen. Why? Well normally you never trade a franchise QB, and when you do - you get major bank.

Wasnt Cassell a franchise QB? He was "franchised" wasnt he?


The best case scenario for the number one pick in the draft? You get a franchise leader. If the Lions could draft Pro Bowler Jay Cutler with the first pick in the draft - they would do it. Period. It would be illogical not to.

Also Cutler is worth more than pick 20 simply because Tampa is offering 19.

where do you keep getting that Tampa is offering #19?



:huh:

They never tried to trade Cutler for Cassel. They were trying to trade Cutler for a first and third round pick, both 19th in the draft.

We went over this a few weeks back. As has been reported in every credible media source, the Lions and Bucs both tried getting Cassell from New England for a pick and then were going flip Cassell for Cutler.


They talked, Detroit made an offer and that offer was inferior to Tampa's. I think Detroit talked to Denver a few weeks ago because they would logically want to see how much it would take to get Cutler. Detroit's offer was a 2-1 and another pick. Tampa's was 1-19 and 3-19. If Cassel DID go to Tampa, Cutler was going to go to Tampa - not Detroit.

Where do you keep getting these numbers from? I follow every thing the Lions do on a daily basis and there was never a published report of a direct offer from the Lions to Denver for Cutler. The Lions offered 2-1 to New England for Cassell and were turned down (ironically enough since it's 2 picks better than the pick they took).


No, they don't.

Picks are not as valuable as real players. Cutler is always worth more than the number one pick. Julius Peppers is always worth more than a first round pick. Proven NFL players are ALWAYS more valuable than draft picks.

No, thats not accurate. If that was the case teams would trade away picks in the NFL like they do in the NBA. Sure, some players have value above anyone in the draft, but I'd say a great deal of players in the league are less valuable than picks, due to the fact that they have a known ceiling, and draft picks have the potential for greatness. The NFL is geared toward rebuilding through the draft. Draft picks, especially first rounders, are extremely valuable for teams.


And Detroit CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS. They can't afford to offer more than one day one pick. Period. They need every one of those picks.

But according to you established veteran players are always more valuable than picks, so why wouldnt they package some picks to go after Cutler?


Actually it wouldn't be ridiculous at all. Honestly that's how much Cutler should cost. Teams trade multiple first rounder's all the time in order to get that franchise QB in the draft, here is the chance to do that same sort of trade for a Pro Bowl player.

But you continue to ignore the fact that Denver has the impetus to deal him. He wants off the team and will cause a huge distraction or sit out and eat up their cap space if they dont deal. They have an urgency to deal him before the draft where they can get the most value for him. Free agency is all but over as far as QB's go so the draft is their last hurrah to resolve the situation. The Broncos are staring down the barrel of a season with Chris Simms under center or someone else's back-up scraps. The closer we get to the draft, the more of a buyer's market it becomes.

[Cunning Stunts]

Wasnt Cassell a franchise QB? He was "franchised" wasnt he?

A "Franchise Player" is not the same as a Franchised player.

"Franchise Player" is a nickname designated to people like Ray Lewis, Brett Farve, Tom Brady, etc. People who become the faces of and top contributors for a single team over a long period of time.

A Franchised player is a player with the Franchise Tag placed on him, meaning he is owed a one-year contract and money equal to the average value of the top 5 players in that position by his team (the one that owned and subsequently Franchised Tagged him), unless another team provides a matching or greater offer.

[Excel]

I stopped reading there. He had a monster year, but elite? The Jury is still out on that one.

White has had more monster seasons than Calvin Johnson has.


I would love to see them try that against the Cardinals. The score would be in the triple digits.

I assume you mean for the Pats because their O would always be on the field? Warner would have zero time to throw.

Since I think Seymore, Warren and Thomas were significantly better than in 2007 than 2009, I disagree.

Seymour wasnt anything special in 2007, though Vince was godlike.

White's didn't play on an "elite" level until last year.

Roddy White was elite in 2007 as well, just watch the film. 1200 yards with a hideous QB situation is very impressive. He runs perhaps the best routes in all the NFL.

I agree. I think Defense is obviously the number one priority for New England.

I dont know. WR is also a need; Galloway is very old and Lewis is more of a special teamer; if Heyward Bey is there at 23 or Nicks/Britt at 34 they WILL pull the trigger.

[Cunning Stunts]

WR a priority when they have Randy Moss and Wes Welker? Are you effin' kidding me?

[Excel]

WR a priority when they have Randy Moss and Wes Welker? Are you effin' kidding me?

No :huh:

Welker is a slot guy; Moss is the only wr you mentioned. Our other wr's since Moss and Welk got here have been Donte Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, both of whome are gone, and Kelley Washington and Sam Aiken. Lewis is presumably in Washingtons role as hell play a lot of special teams with Galloway in Gaffneys, but at 37 thats hardly good.

Ask a New England fan. The Pats need a WR of the future past Moss. Moss has 2 years left ans isnt getting younger; now is the time to draft onee and give him time to develop. Chad Jackson was a collosal bust because they threw him in unprepared and he got hurt in the process.

If Darius Heyward Bey is there at pick 23, the Patriots WILL take him.

[Cunning Stunts]

Wes Welker is a Wide Receiver. Playing in the "slot" is just a term used for a certain type of WR. I don't know who taught you that "Slot guy" was ever an actual position in football.

Sure, I agree that the Pats will need younger receivers very soon, but if I were the Pats, I'd be looking to solidify that defense and get some younger guys there first, as that D is older than dirt.

[Excel]

Welker is technically a wide reciever but he doesnt line up wide. Hes too small.

[Cunning Stunts]

Welker is technically a wide reciever but he doesnt line up wide. Hes too small.

Nice one... Now you're just playing with semantics. :whatever: He's a Wide Receiver who primarily lines up in the slot position because he is small enough and tough enough to go into the middle and catch the short passes, which usually the bigger and more wirey guys won't do because of the vicious hits delivered there.

He's been one of the top contributing Wide Receivers in the game since he went to New England. I think they'll look elsewhere.

[danielisthor]

Welker is technically a wide reciever but he doesnt line up wide. Hes too small.

Wow. I'll have to recheck my memory banks, but I remember Dan Marino having Clayton and Duper out wide every game in the 80's. I think Warren Moon had a trifecta of small "slot" receivers every game. Maybe that's why they never won a Superbowl, they had smurfs as wideouts.

[StorminNorman]

If you think Stafford and Sanchez are close to equal, do you overpay Stafford at #1 or risk Sanchez at #20?

You have no guarantee whats available at #20. If you really like one of these QB's you take them number one. If you really like both of them, but you prefer one - you take that one number one. If you just like one or two of them, then you follow the draft and possibly trade up to get a QB later.

This year, Kurt Warner and the Cardnials and Chad Pennington with the Dolphins.

But does anyone think that those players are long term dynasties yet? These are short term turnarounds, they will have to establish a franchise QB to be a consistent contender.

Teams just don't turn around by drafting a really skilled QB, its really a team effort.

But its most easiest lead by a skilled franchise QB and will only be consistent when it has one.

The Lions should take Aaron Curry #1 overall, and then take Eben Britton with the #20th pick. Try and trade down with the Patriots or Dolphins in the 2nd and acquire an extra number two. No one is talking about Britton, but he reminds me of Ryan Clady and I think he will suprise alot of folks and be a better player than Andre Smith or Jason Smith.

Jason Smith will be the best tackle in this draft, period. But the Lions just traded for a Pro Bowl linebacker and they still have Ernie Simms at the other side. They need help at MLB, but Curry is an OLB and plus its not responsible to invest so much money in a linebacking corps. You simply dont' take linebackers that high.

Ya know, and this doesn't just go for the Lions, but other teams as well, with all this Cutler trade talk, there is another Quarterback out there who I would consider trading for, a guy you would give up far less for. His name is Tyler Thigpen, and I really believe he will be a quality Quarterback in this league. The Lions should try and get him. Same with the Carolina Panthers.

Carolina wouldn't be a bad fit, but the Lions are NOT a good fit for Tyler Thingpen. Their offensive scheme and talent package lends itself to the offenses Randy Moss and Dante Culpepper ran at Minnesota. Its a vertical attack. Thingpen can be a great spread QB and has great legs, but his arm would waste Calvin Johnson.

Manning was taken by the Chargers with the sole intention of flipping him to another team. The Giants called them, and drafted Rivers and they swapped picks. A draft day trade is a draft day trade, it was picks for picks, regardless of it happened 10 minutes after Manning was drafted.

So, again, its proof that a QB - Manning - was worth more than the first pick in the draft. The Giants traded two first round picks (or a franchise QB and a first round pick) and change for one.

that depends on the player and the guys available in the draft.

Which in this case goes in support of my cause.

Wasnt Cassell a franchise QB? He was "franchised" wasnt he?

The "Franchise Tag" and being a "Franchise Quarterback" are two entirely different things. The Franchise Tag is a contract option teams have on free agents. The Franchise Quarterback is a John Elway, a Brett Farve - the face and leader of an organization.

where do you keep getting that Tampa is offering #19?

The fact they offered their first and third draft picks for Cutler a few weeks ago. :huh:

We went over this a few weeks back. As has been reported in every credible media source, the Lions and Bucs both tried getting Cassell from New England for a pick and then were going flip Cassell for Cutler.

No, that was an early and incorrectly reported article. Adam Schefter of the NFL Network reported the deal was for Denver to offer 12 to New England in exchange for Cassel with Detroit offering 2-1 and a future pick for Cutler and Tampa Bay offering 1-19 and 3-19.

Where do you keep getting these numbers from? I follow every thing the Lions do on a daily basis and there was never a published report of a direct offer from the Lions to Denver for Cutler. The Lions offered 2-1 to New England for Cassell and were turned down (ironically enough since it's 2 picks better than the pick they took).

No, thats not what the trade was.

No, thats not accurate. If that was the case teams would trade away picks in the NFL like they do in the NBA. Sure, some players have value above anyone in the draft, but I'd say a great deal of players in the league are less valuable than picks, due to the fact that they have a known ceiling, and draft picks have the potential for greatness. The NFL is geared toward rebuilding through the draft. Draft picks, especially first rounders, are extremely valuable for teams.

Only if you fall in love with a prospect. If you identify a player you want, you try to make sure you get that player no matter what. But those occasions are not constant, and most happen on the fly at the draft.

But according to you established veteran players are always more valuable than picks, so why wouldnt they package some picks to go after Cutler?

Established players are important on established teams. If you are rebuilding, still molding your identity - which the Lions are - you have to build your team with young talent.

But you continue to ignore the fact that Denver has the impetus to deal him. He wants off the team and will cause a huge distraction or sit out and eat up their cap space if they dont deal. They have an urgency to deal him before the draft where they can get the most value for him. Free agency is all but over as far as QB's go so the draft is their last hurrah to resolve the situation. The Broncos are staring down the barrel of a season with Chris Simms under center or someone else's back-up scraps. The closer we get to the draft, the more of a buyer's market it becomes.

No, the Broncos have all the cards here. They can afford to wait to make a trade till Training Camp. There will be an offer and they will end up getting value in return. I think McDaniels has the arrogance to belive Simms can run the offense and I think he will be very Belicheck in his way of not having his hand forced by a player.

White has had more monster seasons than Calvin Johnson has.

But he doesn't have near enough talent. Calvin has looked as good as White with no one throwing to him.

[quote]I assume you mean for the Pats because their O would always be on the field? Warner would have zero time to throw.

Please, Warner was able to shred two of the three best defenses of last year. He prides his quick release.

Seymour wasnt anything special in 2007, though Vince was godlike.

Seymour is even worse now. The foundation of the Patriots are growing old.

Roddy White was elite in 2007 as well, just watch the film. 1200 yards with a hideous QB situation is very impressive. He runs perhaps the best routes in all the NFL.

He has done amazing so far, but I want to see it one more year.

I dont know. WR is also a need; Galloway is very old and Lewis is more of a special teamer; if Heyward Bey is there at 23 or Nicks/Britt at 34 they WILL pull the trigger.

That's possible.

Nice one... Now you're just playing with semantics. :whatever: He's a Wide Receiver who primarily lines up in the slot position because he is small enough and tough enough to go into the middle and catch the short passes, which usually the bigger and more wirey guys won't do because of the vicious hits delivered there.

He's been one of the top contributing Wide Receivers in the game since he went to New England. I think they'll look elsewhere.

No, a "slot wide receiver" is a distinct type of receiver. Typically the slot receiver is fast with good hands, but may lack ideal height. They need two other quality WR's to do their bes. Percy Harvin is a slot receiver, Brandon Stokely is a slot receiver, Wes Welker is a slot receiver.

[NotFadeAway]

I glossed over some things in my previous post, but every year, I like to take the worst team during the season and in a way, fanfic what I would do with them, although I'm rarely fans of those teams. My favorite team is Carolina, and they have been the worst team once, but considering there my team, I do this everyday. Keep in mind I do this by the certain side of the field I'm talking about, not chronological order.

Anyway, the Lions. If I were in charge of the Lions, here is how I would do things, or should I now say, how I would have done them from the start. Lose the held over front office staff, for one. Jim Schwartz is an excellent choice for coach. And keep in mind, all of my ideas hypothetically can be worked out.

I think Detroit already has some building blocks for the 3-4, although this could very well screw Ernie Sims. Cliff Avril is made to be an outside linebacker in the 3-4, and Alama-Francis has good size already, with a couple extra pounds added to his 280 in the Brett Kiesel mold. I would have tried like hell to restructure Leigh Bodden's contract because I think he is a good man-man corner who suffered last season because of the system, coaching, and general atmosphere. At the other corner position, I would honestly sign Pacman Jones. The Lions truly have nothing to lose and I think there the only team who could get away with signing Pacman for that reason. Pacman is a hell of a talent, he was just rusty after being off a year. At his best, Pacman has pro bowl level talent. I'd get Vonnie Holliday to come in as an end, along with making a run at Safety Chris Crocker who played for and resigned with the Bengals after having a nice season at Safety. In the perfect world the Lions could trade down a few spots, get some more picks in round, and draft Brian Orakpo to be the other outside Linebacker. But I doubt any teams would trade up, which is why I would actually offer it up cheap to another team, grabbing a 2nd and 3-4th pick and maybe a solid player or two. But without trading down, I would draft Aaron Curry. Curry is the kinda player Detroit needs, an intense guy full of piss and vineager. And with one of there third round picks, I would draft Jason Phillips, a Middle Linebacker from TCU who I have had my eye on and believe to be a true find. He is also an MLB more suited for the 3-4. Because of his athleticsm, Ernie Sims might be able to play on the inside. But thats doubtful. I would, however, give it a year to play out. Speaking of trading down a few lines ago, not matter what, I would try and take the Dallas first rounder or top 2nd round pick, trade down, and get a second or so in the 2nd round, I think the second round is were you find the quality players who weren't workout warriors that shot up the board, "cough Josh Freeman/Vernon Ghoulston cough". And thats why the second round is my favorite round. Assuming the Lions got another 2nd, With one of those, I would take Ron Brace, a massive DT from Boston Collge who I think will be better than Raiji. Thats your NT. With the other 2nd, I would be torn. Yes, the Lions need some offensive help, but not nearly enough as they do defense. I might take the best Safety available, but there would be a good chance that I would draft a lineman. More on that in a minute. Considering the system I would run, there would be an outside chance of trading Ernie Sims if the package was sweet enough because again, he doesn't really fit into the 3-4. So another MLB to team with Phillips might take place if Sims was gone, unless of course it was a player for player move that brought in a more suited Linebacker. I would draft a corner like DeAngelo Smith in the 4th. I would still trade Redding, not for Julian Peterson, but I would trade him. I'd look for a Vonnie Holliday replacement to groom and rotate. Basically, I would be more draft oriented with the Defense, and I am a defense first guy. The 3-4 give you the blitz and aggresion I love, and man to man coverage tickles my fancy. I would be so damn aggressive on defense it's not funny.

With the Lions offense, I think everyone knows there are two glowing needs. An O-line, and a Quarterback. I think I once hard a Lion fan say Jesus couldn't throw behind that line. Saying that, I would have pursued some of the bargain quality Lineman in free agency, going after Geoff Hangartner and Ray Willis to play Center and Right Guard alongside Goser Cherilus, who I still really like as a player. With the second 1st round pick, I take Eben Britton, and you might be able to trade down a few and grab him, but I would not do that unless you KNOW you can draft him. No one is talking about Britton, but he reminds e alot of Ryan Clady and I think Britton will be a great pro LT. I trade or cut Jeff Backus, and like I said, I might take another lineman in the third, someone to pair up with Britton at LG and the two can come together as rookies. Trevor Canfield perhaps.The Lions are set at RB with Kevin Smith, but a bigger back should be looked at to come in and help out. I'd go out of my way to get Owen Schmiit as the fullback, despite only being in the league for one year and knowing teams don't give away most player after only a year on the team after being drafted. I friggin love trades. Calvin Johnson is obviously your go to guy, but Mike Furrey should have been kept as the number two or three wideout. But what about Quarterback? Get Tyler Thigpen, he will come at a good price ad I believe he will be a quality Quarterback in the league, not Manning or Brady, but a quality passer. Cut Daunte for sure, but I would like to see what Drews Stanton has going on. I loved him coming out of college, running my mouth about how I would draft him over Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell because he was better when healthy. Same goes for Trent Edwards, but anyway, were the hell is Stanton. In terms of style, I would come out swinging in the 1sr Quarter, throwing the ball all over the place out of a high paced Shotgun formation, traying to build a quick but big lead, and then come back and pound away with the running game while taking chances here and there. I would line Calvin Johnson up all over the place as a lethal weapon, and as a fan of way fullbacks were used years ago, in particular Paul Browns Bengals, I would line Smith and Schmitt up and run it with both of them while there in the damn backfield. And that rings true if I couldn't lane Schmitt, give me a La'ron McLain type then, or a Jacob Hester. I love me a good pass catching Tight End, but it's usually easier to find one thats an extension of the Offensive line.

If all these things actually could or did happen, the Lions would be a much better team.

[Cunning Stunts]

No, a "slot wide receiver" is a distinct type of receiver. Typically the slot receiver is fast with good hands, but may lack ideal height. They need two other quality WR's to do their bes. Percy Harvin is a slot receiver, Brandon Stokely is a slot receiver, Wes Welker is a slot receiver.

No, it's an informal term used for receivers who aren't as big as others who line up closer to the Offensive Line. I have yet to hear somebody drafted as a "slot receiver"- it's not its own distinct position. It's virtually the same kind of distinction as juding a power back or a finesse back- those aren't real positions, they're just nicknames given based on your abilities, and in many cases, size.

If you join the league as a Wide Receiver, you are a Wide Receiver, and are thus switched about to Flanker, Split End, or Slot depending on your abilities/attributes compared to your fellow receivers' abilities/attributes.

[Excel]

That is irrelevant; Welker only does as well as does due to the coverage the two wrs who line up wide get down the field; take away one of them and he is in trouble. He needs the space in the middle to be effective and if it isnt there, he wont be. They need to somebody to help Moss down the field.

And if Cutler has proven anything the past week, its that hes not ready to be the face of a franchise. Seriously, this is how he deals adversity off the field? I dont even wanna know what itll be like when he faces it on it.

[The Incredible Hulk]

^ how does 4500+ yds and 25 TD's sound? Or a career avg of about 250 yds passing per game?

And BTW, the Patriots signed Galloway. There's no way in hell they take a WR in the 1st round now.

[kane9321]

the bucs,lions,jets,browns,texans....need to do whatever it takes to get jay cutler..Each teams need a qb

[Dr. Evil]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/17/quinn-leinart-are-the-best-options-for-the-broncos/

I don't know about that.

[Excel]

^ how does 4500+ yds and 25 TD's sound? Or a career avg of about 250 yds passing per game?

Sounds great, but the same way teams shyed away from Owens 1200 yards, 10+ touchdowns due his personality, Cutler is falling into the same line. Obviously as not as bad, but its become a huge and unnessecary distraction.


And BTW, the Patriots signed Galloway. There's no way in hell they take a WR in the 1st round now.


Hes 37. I would say its unlikely they do but of guys like cushing and Matthews are gone and DHB is avail, dont be surprised if they take him.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Sounds great, but the same way teams shyed away from Owens 1200 yards, 10+ touchdowns due his personality, Cutler is falling into the same line. Obviously as not as bad, but its become a huge and unnessecary distraction.


Cutler has had one spat with a rookie head coach who botched a trade for him and then lied to his face.

Owens has found his way out of 4 organizations now (if you count the trade to the Ravens he weaseled out of to go to the Eagles) and has had issues with teammates at every stop along the way.

It's apples and oranges.

[Dark Donnie]

The things Cutler is doing is nowhere near as bad as what Owens has done. Owens is a problem everywhere he's been. Owens is nuts and a ego maniac. I still believe he only did a one year deal with Buffalo so he and his agent can say someone signed him only 48 hours after he was released. His main reason for fighting that trade to Baltimore was because of Kyle Boller at QB...I doubt Trent Edwards instills confidence.


Report: Peppers trade to Pats 'won't happen'

NFL Network's Adam Schefter disputes an NFL.com report that the Patriots are on the verge of acquiring Panthers franchise player Julius Peppers.

"That trade is not gonna happen," Schefter says. "I don’t believe for a second there’s any truth to it." Schefter is the premier NFL reporter, so it's always hard to doubt him. It also seemed odd that NFL.com's Vic Carucci would get the inside track on New England's offseason strategy. Schefter cites the Jared Allen-like contract Peppers might require and calls free agent Jason Taylor a more realistic target for the Patriots. Mar. 17 - 12:27 pm et
Source: WEEI 850 - Boston

[Showtime]

Jason Taylor and Peppers.

One can dream.

[Dark Donnie]

Taylor is a possibility

[RAMORE]

This story says that Cutler's top two are Chicago and Titans:


Jay Cutler's request for trade opens door for Chicago Bears
By Vaughn McClure

The Jay Cutler saga reached the boiling point as the Denver Broncos quarterback asked to be traded. We've talked about the Culter possibility here before, but if the Bears are the least bit interested, they might want to make a move.

Chicago and Tennessee are the top two destinations on Cutler's wish list, according to the Denver Post. Cutler, who grew up a Bears fans, has some history with Bears left tackle Chris Williams, his former teammate at Vanderbilt.

If general manager Jerry Angelo maintains his same stance, the Bears won't make a play for Cutler.

``To bring in somebody to compete to start to me was running up and down the starting line and really was hurting Kyle’s progress,'' Angelo said on March 4, referring to Kyle Orton.

But then again, Angelo probably never figured a player of Cutler's caliber would be available.

[Mastodon123]

I doubt he'll get traded to Tenn. I bet the Broncos will tell Cutler the only way hes going to get traded is if they choose the team he goes to.

I think a 3 way trade is the only possible way Cutler would be traded. Most likely involving the Browns, Broncos, and Lions each getting a QB through trade or picks.

Cutler to the Lions
Brady Quinn, Shaun Rodgers, and the Browns 5th pick to Broncos
Lions 1st draft pick to the Browns so they can draft Stafford, and the Broncos 2nd round pick.

[RAMORE]

That's actually plausible^

[KBX]

Jason Taylor and Peppers.

One can dream.

Peppers is great. But his contract is not really the way the Pats do business.

Taylor is nice. Gives them a pass rush, something they desperately needs, but at age 34 is he any different from Vrable?

[Darthphere]

Peppers is great. But his contract is not really the way the Pats do business.

Taylor is nice. Gives them a pass rush, something they desperately needs, but at age 34 is he any different from Vrable?

Vrabel wasn't defensive player of the year two years ago or ever.

[KBX]

^ Vrabel once had what 11 sacks a couple of seasons ago? and an Pro bowl appearance.

I really don't care what Taylor has done in the past, what can he do now? Though he seems to care more about his Dancing with the stars stint than playing football, lol

[Darthphere]

^ Vrabel once had what 11 sacks a couple of seasons ago? and an Pro bowl appearance.

I really don't care what Taylor has done in the past, what can he do now? Though he seems to care more about his Dancing with the stars stint than playing football, lol

Well I'm comparing the two players, and it's ludicrous to compare Vrabel to freaking Jason Taylor. Vrabel is a fine player but he is no Jason Taylor (when he's not trying to pursue an entertainment career).

[The Game]

Cutler has had one spat with a rookie head coach who botched a trade for him and then lied to his face.

Owens has found his way out of 4 organizations now (if you count the trade to the Ravens he weaseled out of to go to the Eagles) and has had issues with teammates at every stop along the way.

It's apples and oranges.

I really dont get why people are making Cutler out to be the bad guy in this, sure he could have handled it better but McDaniels is fault for this. Honestly, none of Belichick's "apprentices" seem to know how the hell to run a football team. Mangini did nothing, Crennel did nothing, Weis did nothing, and now McDaniels is showing that he doesn't have a clue either.


Jason Taylor and Peppers.

One can dream.

More likely Taylor but I would be happy with either

[KBX]

Well I'm comparing the two players, and it's ludicrous to compare Vrabel to freaking Jason Taylor. Vrabel is a fine player but he is no Jason Taylor (when he's not trying to pursue an entertainment career).

When did I ever say Vrabel is better than Taylor? I said at this point in their careers I don't see much of a difference between Taylor and Vrabel. Case in point, both at 4 sacks last year.

[Cunning Stunts]

That is irrelevant; Welker only does as well as does due to the coverage the two wrs who line up wide get down the field; take away one of them and he is in trouble. He needs the space in the middle to be effective and if it isnt there, he wont be. They need to somebody to help Moss down the field.

Nice way to back out of an argument that you veered off subject with your "facts".

Patriots will go Defense, I can almost promise it.

[Darthphere]

When did I ever say Vrabel is better than Taylor? I said at this point in their careers I don't see much of a difference between Taylor and Vrabel. Case in point, both at 4 sacks last year.

Still ridiculous. Taylor had a down year and was injured. Seriously, just stop.

You're comparing the two.

[danielisthor]

I doubt he'll get traded to Tenn. I bet the Broncos will tell Cutler the only way hes going to get traded is if they choose the team he goes to.

I think a 3 way trade is the only possible way Cutler would be traded. Most likely involving the Browns, Broncos, and Lions each getting a QB through trade or picks.

Cutler to the Lions
Brady Quinn, Shaun Rodgers, and the Browns 5th pick to Broncos
Lions 1st draft pick to the Browns so they can draft Stafford, and the Broncos 2nd round pick.


Lions aren't getting enough back.


Another factor to consider is what is Denver's cap hit for trading him. Whatever is left on his signing bonus and other bonuses will be pushed onto this years cap hit. Whoever takes him will want to redo his contract, nobody is going to give him a 12million roster bonus in 2011.

[StorminNorman]

No, it's an informal term used for receivers who aren't as big as others who line up closer to the Offensive Line. I have yet to hear somebody drafted as a "slot receiver"- it's not its own distinct position. It's virtually the same kind of distinction as juding a power back or a finesse back- those aren't real positions, they're just nicknames given based on your abilities, and in many cases, size.

No, in professional football "slot receiver" is a true position. Bobby Ingram was signed in Kansas City to play the "slot receiver". He wasn't signed to be a number one or a number two, he was signed to play the slot. Wes Welker was acquired by the Patriots to play SLOT RECEIVER. Etc. Etc. It is a real position.

And if Cutler has proven anything the past week, its that hes not ready to be the face of a franchise. Seriously, this is how he deals adversity off the field? I dont even wanna know what itll be like when he faces it on it.

You are dead wrong here with Cutler.

the bucs,lions,jets,browns,texans....need to do whatever it takes to get jay cutler..Each teams need a qb

The Texans have a QB. Matt Schaub, when healthy, is a damn good QB.

I doubt he'll get traded to Tenn. I bet the Broncos will tell Cutler the only way hes going to get traded is if they choose the team he goes to.

Why would the Broncos tell Cutler that? The Broncos are going to trade Cutler to whoever gives them the best deal - Cutler's people are going to work on trades, the Broncos are going to work on trades and the Broncos will act on the best one. That's standard operating procedure.

I think a 3 way trade is the only possible way Cutler would be traded. Most likely involving the Browns, Broncos, and Lions each getting a QB through trade or picks.

Cutler to the Lions
Brady Quinn, Shaun Rodgers, and the Browns 5th pick to Broncos
Lions 1st draft pick to the Browns so they can draft Stafford, and the Broncos 2nd round pick.

The Browns would be mental to do a trade like this.

The Browns shouldn't consider trading Brady Quinn, Shaun Rodgers and the number 5 pick in exchange for Mathew Stafford and a second round pick, that's getting hosed.

No team is going to want the first round pick here, which is why Detroit has no chance of getting Cutler.

A better three way deal is this:
New York Jets receive Jay Cutler and the Browns third round pick.
Broncos receive Brady Quinn, Shaun Rodgers, 2-19.
Browns receive Darrelle Revis, 1-17 and Brett Ratliff

[StorminNorman]

Lions aren't getting enough back.

In that scenario they only traded the number 1 pick (a pick that would be spent on a QB anyway), so they would get enough back there.

[Dr. Evil]

Ravens are close to signing LJ Smith.

[StorminNorman]

I have heard its a done deal with LJ Smith.

Also Cleveland signed St. Clair leaving Chicago with a huge need at RT.

[Dr. Evil]

I have heard its a done deal with LJ Smith.

Also Cleveland signed St. Clair leaving Chicago with a huge need at RT.

What the hell does that do to Todd Heap?

[StorminNorman]

What the hell does that do to Todd Heap?

Nothing. Todd Heap and L.J. Smith have injury concerns - this gives Baltimore a good chance at having a legit starting TE for 16 games.

I am not a huge fan of L.J. Smith, but I think this is a great spot for him.

[FaT_tONle]

A better three way deal is this:
New York Jets receive Jay Cutler and the Browns third round pick.
Broncos receive Brady Quinn, Shaun Rodgers, 2-19.
Browns receive Darrelle Revis, 1-17 and Brett Ratliff

No way the Jets are involved in this if it includes Revis... I am thinking if it's the Bears/Titans:

Bears: Cutler
Broncos: Orton, Bears 2nd round pick, 1st round pick in 2010.

Titans: Cutler
Broncos: Young, Titan's 1st round pick, conditional pick in 2010.

or if it's the Browns I still say the Brown's extra 2nd round pick, a swappage of 1st round picks, and Quinn will be enough for Cutler. I don't think a three way deal has to happen just for the sake of a three way deal.

[StorminNorman]

Pat Kirwin of NFL Radio implied the New York Jets could use him as trade capital if it meant getting Cutler.

[Dr. Evil]

Pat Kirwin of NFL Radio implied the New York Jets could use him as trade capital if it meant getting Cutler.

The Jets do need a veteran Quarterback who has started more then six games.

[Mastodon123]

Why would the Broncos tell Cutler that? The Broncos are going to trade Cutler to whoever gives them the best deal - Cutler's people are going to work on trades, the Broncos are going to work on trades and the Broncos will act on the best one. That's standard operating procedure.Some QBs have the option to re-ject trades though. Favre could have rejected the trade to the Jets, but decided not to.

[StorminNorman]

Some QBs have the option to re-ject trades though. Favre could have rejected the trade to the Jets, but decided not to.
Cutler does not have that option.

[Mastodon123]

Looks like the Lions are in the market to sign a back up for Culpepper.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090317/SPORTS0101/903170444/1361

[StorminNorman]

Looks like the Lions are in the market to sign a back up for Culpepper.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090317/SPORTS0101/903170444/1361

Don't trust anything a GM or any team representative states. This is a secretive league.

[CrypticOne]

Man, I wish Cutler didn't want to be traded. This news sucks for Bronco fans.

[RAMORE]

And he's got leverage because if he holds out all yall have is Chris Simms:csad:

[Excel]

Simms has more experience than Cassel did.

[That-Guy]

It may just be wishful thinking, but some guys in my office here were just saying that Cutler might wind up in Washington. Since I live down here now, the Redskins are kind of my "number 2" team and I think that'd be great news for them because they need a stronger QB, IMO.

[RAMORE]

You just need better coaches to get more out of your current QB IMO.

[StorminNorman]

Man, I wish Cutler didn't want to be traded. This news sucks for Bronco fans.

He still may not leave. Just because Cutler wants out doesn't mean he will be.

And he's got leverage because if he holds out all yall have is Chris Simms:csad:

No, Cutler has no leverage. If he holds out he loses money, loses appeal, etc.

You just need better coaches to get more out of your current QB IMO.

The coaches aren't JC's problem - its stability. Since he has the same offensive coordinator this year, we shall see what he does. If not, I know Washington is very high on Colt Brennan.

[BlackLantern]

Cutler to Tampa Bay maybe??? would he fit there?

[StorminNorman]

Cutler to Tampa Bay maybe??? would he fit there?

Like Peanut Butter and Jelly.

[SurfDUI]

It may just be wishful thinking, but some guys in my office here were just saying that Cutler might wind up in Washington. Since I live down here now, the Redskins are kind of my "number 2" team and I think that'd be great news for them because they need a stronger QB, IMO.


Ilove the redskins cambell has been developing, for a normal length. At best with no real career bright spots that be a lateral move. Plus u got a destroyed locketroom

[Dr. Evil]

Saints sign DB Darren Sharper

[Dr. Evil]

Tampa Bay signs LB Angelo Crowell

[Mee]

Jay Cutler is unproven, average at best, and should've kept his mouth shut. Mcdaniel's should've kept his mouth shut too though, he wants a guy that he trained, so uh...train Cutler. :huh:

[Cunning Stunts]

Jay Cutler just went to the Pro Bowl and had a 4500+ yard season, with 28 TDs... That qualifies as proven to me.

[RAMORE]

Fatty is slimming down alright man show them you can still play:

Culpepper hits the ground running

March 18, 2009 2:28 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Kevin Seifert

Sounds like the ... er, "big" story during the first week of Detroit's off program is slimmed-down quarterback Daunte Culpepper. Center Dominic Raiola told local reporters that Culpepper appeared to have lost at least 20 pounds since the end of the season.

Culpepper renegotiated his contract last month and, at least for now, is the favorite to open training camp as the Lions' No. 1 quarterback.

Here's what Raiola said Wednesday, according to Tom Kowalski of Mlive.com:

"He looks like a new man, brand new. He really took this re-signing serious and this job serious. He looks in great shape. It was a difficult place to put him in, coming in for half the year. I got to talking to him and he didn't know he was going to play football. I think that's unfair. The first year after all of us retire we're going to kind of live it up a little bit, the good life. He was out of shape and he knew that. He was heavy, he never played that heavy before. I don't know what he weighs now or what he weighed last year, but he looks great. You can see it -- at least 20 pounds. He didn't lose muscle, he's been working.''

Culpepper typically played between 265 and 275 pounds when he was with Minnesota from 1999-2005. Kowalski reports Culpepper weighed 292 pounds when the Lions signed him midway through last season.

The Lions made an effort to acquire Denver quarterback Jay Cutler last month and could draft Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford with the No. 1 overall pick next month. But for now, it seems Culpepper is doing everything he can to put himself in position to be the first starter of the Jim Schwartz era.

[RAMORE]

Looks like the Bills need to get another running back just in case:

Lynch Expected To Face Discipline
Marshawn Lynch expected to face NFL discipline after pleading guilty to gun charge
Tags: NFL, Buffalo Bills, Marshawn LynchLynch Expected To Face Discipline
ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Buffalo Bills running back Marshawn Lynch expects to be suspended by the NFL for his latest run-in with the law and added he's gotten the message that the league "won't tolerate any more screw-ups" from him.

Delivering a message of humility and repentance -- and minus the flashy gold grill he usually wears across his teeth -- Lynch vowed Wednesday that he's ready to change his ways and prepared to accept the consequences for his actions.

"It has kind of sunk in, and I felt that this was the next step to letting you guys know that there will be a change," Lynch said. "I never had the intention of getting into trouble or anything like that. But along the way my road got rocky, and now you know it's time to set my pavement straight."

The former first-round draft pick out of California held a nine-minute news conference in the Bills practice facility a day after meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in New York. The meeting was part of Goodell's review into whether to discipline Lynch for violating the league's personal conduct policy after he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor gun charge in Los Angeles earlier this month.

Lynch characterized the meeting with Goodell as a wake-up call and said the commissioner's message has sunk in.

"Something that he stressed throughout the meeting was that he will not tolerate any more screw-ups by me," Lynch said, noting he expects to be suspended for the start of the regular season because this is the second time he's gotten in trouble with authorities.

"I honestly see a suspension coming, but that comes with the consequences," Lynch said.

He expects a ruling to be made within 10 days.

Lynch was arrested near Los Angeles on Feb. 11. In searching a parked car carrying Lynch, Culver City police found a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun inside a backpack in the trunk. Police also found four marijuana cigarettes in the car, but no drug charges were filed.

He pleaded guilty to having a concealed firearm and was sentenced to 80 hours community service and three years' probation.

It was Lynch's second run-in with the law in less than a year.


Lynch

In June, he pleaded guilty to a traffic violation and admitted he was behind the wheel of his SUV when it sped off from a downtown Buffalo intersection after striking a pedestrian, who sustained minor injuries. Lynch wasn't disciplined by the league for the accident.

"The first time was pretty much like a slap on the wrist," he said. "I feel this time it really will stick."

Aware that people might be skeptical, Lynch said the only way to prove himself is through his actions.

"I can only show you. It won't be nothing that I can say in words that'll make you out a believer," Lynch said. "You're just going to have to see for yourself."

Lynch's willingness to speak to reporters was already considered a big change in attitude. Last season, he made himself available to the media only twice, once abruptly ending a news conference and walking away after being asked about the hit-and-run accident.

Lynch was unhappy with how he was portrayed in the media following the accident. His image, though, did take a hit when he invoked his legal right by refusing to speak to authorities for two weeks until Erie County District Attorney Frank Clark issued subpoenas against Bills players and staff.

On Wednesday, Lynch described his decision to delay meeting with authorities as a mistake and said it was a reason why he prompted the meeting with Goodell.

"I know pretty much that there will be some people looking forward to me messing up again," he said. "But I'm just going to let them know they shouldn't hold their breath."

Should Lynch be suspended, the Bills will be minus the player who's led them in rushing and touchdowns over the past two seasons. Last year, he had eight touchdowns and 1,036 yards on the ground, enough to make his first Pro Bowl appearance as an injury replacement.

The Bills have a solid backup in Fred Jackson, though the team has interviewed several veteran free-gent running backs over the past three weeks.

[RAMORE]

You know what's bothering me though why did they search him and his car he was parked what resonable cause did they have? Also, How the hell did he not get in trouble for hitting a pedestrian and taking off:wow: I don't remember hearing about that.

[RAMORE]

To the other Buc fans did you know we just announced that safety Jermaine Phillips will attempt to switch to linebacker this offseason.:wow::confused: A position he's never played to my knowledge. Why the hell did we cut a probowl linebacker to move our safety there?!?!?! Anybody?

[kane9321]

Jay Cutler is unproven, average at best, and should've kept his mouth shut. Mcdaniel's should've kept his mouth shut too though, he wants a guy that he trained, so uh...train Cutler. :huh:

cutler went to the pro bowl and threw for 3000 yrds..that average:wow:

[RAMORE]

http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/

Live blog of Georgia pro day workout. Stafford said to throw at 12:15

[The Incredible Hulk]

cutler went to the pro bowl and threw for 3000 yrds..that average:wow:

He threw for 4500+ yds actually.

[That-Guy]

cutler went to the pro bowl and threw for 3000 yrds..

He threw for 3,000 yards in a single game? That IS talent! :oldrazz:

[Cmill216]

:dry:

[StorminNorman]

Jay Cutler is unproven, average at best, and should've kept his mouth shut. Mcdaniel's should've kept his mouth shut too though, he wants a guy that he trained, so uh...train Cutler. :huh:

Average? The guy is the least sacked QB, one of the best QB's on third down, threw for 4500 yards and did I mention no running game to help?

Cutler is great, amazing at best.

That being said, I don't think he is untradeable. I trust McDaniels to handle this - whether its giving Cutler a new contract or getting Brady Quinn.

[Bond]

Cutler... amazing? That's definitely an overstatement.

[StorminNorman]

Cutler... amazing? That's definitely an overstatement.

I disagree. Cutler's arm is elite, he's a Vanderbilt grad with amazing football I.Q. and he performed at the highest level last year without a defense or a running game.

Cutler is one of the top 5 Qb's in this league today. Period.

[danielisthor]

I disagree. Cutler's arm is elite, he's a Vanderbilt grad with amazing football I.Q. and he performed at the highest level last year without a defense or a running game.

Cutler is one of the top 5 Qb's in this league today. Period.

So, you're saying he's the new Dan Marino of NFL.

[Mee]

Jay Cutler just went to the Pro Bowl and had a 4500+ yard season, with 28 TDs... That qualifies as proven to me.
He had one good year.


Has everyone forgotten Derek Anderson? :o

[StorminNorman]

So, you're saying he's the new Dan Marino of NFL.

I am saying its hard to argue the similarities.

He had one good year.


Has everyone forgotten Derek Anderson? :o

Cutler threw for almost 1000 more yards in 2008 than Anderson in 2007.

Also lets look at Derek Anderson's Pro Bowl year and compare it to Jay Cutler that same year.

Cutler 2007:3,500 Yards 20 TD 14 INT 63.6% Comp.
Anderson 2007: 3787 Yards 29 TD 19 INT 56.5% Comp.

So if Cutler has only had 1 good year, than Anderson has yet to have one.

[vindrow]

Not good news for Donte’ Stallworth:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-stallworth-pedestriankilled&prov=ap&type=lgns




Reports: Stallworth drunk when he struck Miami man
4 hours, 55 minutes ago

Buzz up!2022 votes Print
In this Nov. 6, 2008 file phot…

AP - Mar 14, 2:40 pm EDT NFL Gallery MIAMI (AP)—Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte’ Stallworth was driving drunk when he struck and killed a pedestrian, according to published and broadcast reports Thursday.

WSVN-TV reported Thursday that unnamed sources with knowledge of the investigation said Stallworth’s blood-alcohol level was between .08 and .16. The legal limit is .08. The Miami Herald also cited an unnamed source as saying that Stallworth’s blood-alcohol level was above the legal limit.

The Miami Beach Police Department refused to confirm the reports. Ed Griffith, spokesman for Miami-Dade County prosecutor Katherine Fernandez Rundle, would say only that the investigation is focusing on whether alcohol was a factor in the death of 59-year-old Mario Reyes.

Reyes was struck and killed by a Bentley driven by Stallworth about 7 a.m. Saturday morning. Reyes, a crane operator, had just gotten off work and was trying to catch a bus when he was hit.

No charges have been filed against Stallworth, 28. His agent, Drew Rosenhaus, nor his attorney, Robert Switke, returned calls from The Associated Press seeking comment. Stallworth issued a statement Wednesday saying he was “grief stricken” over Reyes’ death.

If Stallworth was drunk, he could be charged with DUI manslaughter which carries a maximum 15-year prison sentence.

Stallworth signed a seven-year, $35 million contract with the Browns as a free agent before last season but was injured much of the year. He previously played for New England, Philadelphia and New Orleans in the NFL and played college football at Tennessee.

[Excel]

.8 is nothing; you can get that from medicine...

[StorminNorman]

It's enough in court though. Even if Stallworth wasn't drunk, he still killed a guy with a car which isn't highly looked upon in any case.

[Cunning Stunts]

.8 is nothing; you can get that from medicine...

Still against the law.

At the very least, he'll get involuntary manslaughter.

He's gone.

[StorminNorman]

Wiki Leonard Little

[The Incredible Hulk]

Lions and Bucs are the frontrunners for Cutler according to the Jets beatwriter

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/03/cutlerbroncos_feud_heats_up_bu.html


The Buccaneers and Lions appear to be the frontrunners to land Cutler, with the Jets also in the conversation. The Bucs tried to get Cutler a three-way trade involving the Patriots before the Chiefs swooped in and landed quarterback Matt Cassel, whom Denver was trying to obtain.

I still believe it's a long shot the Jets will land Cutler because as I reported on Monday, the Jets need a third team because they don't have the ammo to get Cutler. And, I don't think they would give up a bevy of draft picks to acquire him.

The Bucs, however, appear more than willing to give the Broncos whatever it would take to get Cutler. And the Lions have the first pick in the draft, with which the Broncos could draft a quarterback.

There's a lot of talk that if the Lions arent blown away by Stafford on the 31st that they'll deal the #1 overall and a 4th rounder to Denver for Cutler and the #12. Apparently the guys from McDaniels staff that were at UGA today were quite impressed with Stafford today. Make of that what you wish.

[StorminNorman]

Honestly that guys word is no more viable than mine. He has no idea what talks are going on for Cutler, or the name of the four teams + teams that have called.

I am not sure if Denver would take a deal involving the number one pick. Even if they prefer Stafford over Sanchez, they are likely going to prefer Cutler to Stafford. Also, when it comes down to it, thats a terrible deal for Denver. They are essentially trading the 12th pick for a non-existent 4th round pick. Cutler is worth a great deal more than pick 1 and any 4th round pick.

Most importantly the Lions don't have a 4th round pick - so that rumor has no credibility.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Honestly that guys word is no more viable than mine. He has no idea what talks are going on for Cutler, or the name of the four teams + teams that have called.

Yes, it is. Hutchinson has been an NFL beat writer for decades for the Star Ledger. He's very credible when it comes to the NFL. There's no reason to think that after covering a sport for 30 years he wouldnt have some level of contacts in the league. You're acting like he's some dopey blogger.


I am not sure if Denver would take a deal involving the number one pick. Even if they prefer Stafford over Sanchez, they are likely going to prefer Cutler to Stafford. Also, when it comes down to it, thats a terrible deal for Denver. They are essentially trading the 12th pick for a non-existent 4th round pick. Cutler is worth a great deal more than pick 1 and any 4th round pick.

Most importantly the Lions don't have a 4th round pick - so that rumor has no credibility.Thats it just dismiss the entire thing based on the assumption of a late round pick. I thought they said 4th rounder, maybe it was a 5th? Maybe it was next year's 4th, I don't know.

I'm sure at this point, the Broncos would prefer the happy QB with a lot of potential whom can be molded and taught by and grow along with their new head coach, versus the malcontent QB who doesnt trust the coach as far as he can throw him.

[vindrow]

According to this from cbs in miami he was at .14.

http://cbs4.com/local/donte.stallworth.macarthur.2.963102.html



Sources: Stallworth Legally Drunk During Accident
Attorney For Stallworth Has Not Confirmed Report
59-Year Old Mario Reyes Was Killed In The Crash
Toxicology Reports Are Pending Reporting
Peter D'Oench
E-mail MIAMI BEACH (CBS4) ―
Click to enlarge
Still image from a video obtained by CBS4 news partner The Miami Herald which shows Stallworth being given a sobriety test by two Miami Beach police officers, after he crashed into a pedestrian.
Miami Herald

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Click to enlarge
Donte Stallworth #18 of the Cleveland Browns motions on the field during the game against the Detroit Lions at Ford Field on August 23, 2008 in Detroit, Mich.
Gregory Shamus/Getty Images

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numSlides of totalImages Related Slideshows Celebrities On Twitter Related StoriesStallworth "Grief-Stricken" Over Deadly Crash (3/18/2009)
CBS4 has confirmed that Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte Stallworth was legally drunk when his vehicle struck and killed a man on the MacArthur Causeway last weekend. Stallworth reportedly had a blood alcohol level of .14, almost two times the legal limit of .08.

A spokesman for the Miami-Dade State Attorney's office would not say if his office had received the results of the test, but he did say prosecutors were reviewing this case.

CBS4 news partner the Miami Herald also quoted a source with knowledge of the investigation who said Stallworth's blood alcohol tests "showed he was over the legal limit."

CBS4's Peter D'Oench contacted Stallworth's attorney Bob Switkes who said he could not comment or "speculate about the case" because he had not received the results of the test. Switkes told D'Oench he expected to receive the results of the blood-alcohol test on Friday and said, "I've heard the reports but I am not going to speculate or comment until I see what the results are."

D'Oench tried contacting Stallworth at his condo in downtown Miami, but he was unavailable for comment.

NFL Players Association director of communications Carl Francis said in an e-mail to CBS4.com that the NFLPA had no comment on the reports.

Wednesday, Stallworth released a statement saying he is "grief stricken" over the car accident that killed 59-year old Mario Reyes.

The statement, released by the team Wednesday, read that his "thoughts and prayers are with the Reyes family during this incredibly difficult time. Unfortunately, since this accident is still under police investigation, I cannot comment further on the matter at this time." Stallworth has been cooperating with police and no charges have been filed.

Police say Stallworth was headed toward the beach when he hit Reyes with his Bentley. Reyes was near a crosswalk but it's unclear if he was crossing legally.

Reyes had worked all night at his job as a crane operator with the shipping company Bernuth Agencies, located just feet from the crash. He was trying to cross the street to catch a bus home when he was hit and killed. His family and co-workers said he had clocked out only minutes before the accident around 7:00 a.m. Saturday.

Reyes was described by relatives as a "family man." Reyes was married for nearly 20 years and has a 15-year old daughter.

CBS4 news partner The Miami Herald obtained video of Stallworth's field sobriety test minutes after the Saturday morning crash. Click here to see the entire video.

Stallworth, 28, is an eight-year pro NFL wide receiver. Stallworth signed a seven-year, $35 million contract with the Browns as a free agent before last season but hardly played because he was hurt. He was scheduled to receive a $4.75 million signing bonus Friday.


So I guess you can blow a .14 from drinking medicine to, huh.

[Mastodon123]

Yes, it is. Hutchinson has been an NFL beat writer for decades for the Star Ledger. He's very credible when it comes to the NFL. There's no reason to think that after covering a sport for 30 years he wouldnt have some level of contacts in the league. You're acting like he's some dopey blogger.

Thats it just dismiss the entire thing based on the assumption of a late round pick. I thought they said 4th rounder, maybe it was a 5th? Maybe it was next year's 4th, I don't know.

I'm sure at this point, the Broncos would prefer the happy QB with a lot of potential whom can be molded and taught by and grow along with their new head coach, versus the malcontent QB who doesnt trust the coach as far as he can throw him.

I've heard somewhere else the Broncos want 2 1st round picks and a QB in return for Cutler. Though before it was said they weren't interested in draft picks so who knows what they want at this point.

[StorminNorman]

Yes, it is. Hutchinson has been an NFL beat writer for decades for the Star Ledger. He's very credible when it comes to the NFL. There's no reason to think that after covering a sport for 30 years he wouldnt have some level of contacts in the league. You're acting like he's some dopey blogger.

And that's great, but that doesn't make him much more correct here. I am not doubting the guy's career, or his writing ability or anything - what I am saying is that he doesn't know whats going on simply because the only team that knows whats going on is Denver and Denver is neither in a position to benefit from a leak, nor an organization to have one.

Now it's very possible that he talked to someone IN the league that speculated that the Lions and Bucs have the best chance, but it would still be speculation.

Thats it just dismiss the entire thing based on the assumption of a late round pick. I thought they said 4th rounder, maybe it was a 5th? Maybe it was next year's 4th, I don't know.

If I read an article about the Iraq War that mention the war started in 1976 under the command of General George Washington, I am going to dismiss it because its simply incorrect about very basic, easy to check facts.

The Lions lack a 4th round pick and a 5th round pick. They also lack a 7th round pick. Luckily they do own to 6 round picks, but again the Denver Broncos would never agree to such a horrible trade on their part.

I'm sure at this point, the Broncos would prefer the happy QB with a lot of potential whom can be molded and taught by and grow along with their new head coach, versus the malcontent QB who doesnt trust the coach as far as he can throw him.

I agree with all of the above...but that doesn't mean they would want to the first pick. Detroit's 20 pick is almost certain more attractive to Detroit simply due to the money. Again, with Denver at 12, there is no need to move at number 1 to get a QB. Sanchez will be staring them in the face at 12. Before someone tries to make the argument that McDainels would want the BEST QB prospect, McDaniels has already proved that he prefers training QB's than simply taking the most talented one.

[StorminNorman]

Cutler is worth two firsts and a QB, but not to Detroit even if they had a QB Denver wanted.

[Dr. Evil]

Stallworth will be speaking to Goddell very soon.

[danielisthor]

Dolphins send one of their 7th rounders to Jacksonville for DT - Tony McDaniel. It's a minor trade, but if he can be Ferguson's eventual replacement, it could be major move by the 2010 season.

[StorminNorman]

Dolphins send one of their 7th rounders to Jacksonville for DT - Tony McDaniel. It's a minor trade, but if he can be Ferguson's eventual replacement, it could be major move by the 2010 season.

Trading 7th round picks for veterans are almost always good decisions. Tony McDaniel has far better chance of making his team's roster than any player Jacksonville takes with that pick.

[StorminNorman]

ESPN's James Walker reports that Shaun Rogers did not report for the Browns' offseason conditioning program.

The workouts are voluntary, but Eric Mangini expects all players to show. Apparently, the two remain on bad terms after Mangini gave Rogers a cold shoulder at a February awards banquet. Rogers is due a large option/roster bonus later this month. It's guaranteed, so he still isn't going anywhere. Mar. 19 - 4:24 pm et

Did I mention that Denver needs a DT? Did I mention that Charlie Weiss was McDaniels mentor at New England? Hmmm?

[Excel]

From what I remember in college .14 is still nothing. The fact that the cops thought he was totally normal should show he was fine.

That, combined with the fact that according to thepolice, the guy was running into a busy road trying to catch a bus and Stallworth did what he was required to do, and he shouldnt be seein got much jail time.

[StorminNorman]

It doesn't matter. If your blood alcohol level is .08 or more, and you hit someone (no matter why) you are screwed.

[Cmill216]

From what I remember in college .14 is still nothing.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/cmill216/foxwtf.jpg

[RAMORE]

I'm with cmill here:confused: .08 is legally impaired anything above that and someone gets hurt you are in BIG trouble.

[RAMORE]

This isn't like Little's case I bet Goodell throws him out of the league.

[RAMORE]

Lions and Bucs are the frontrunners for Cutler according to the Jets beatwriter

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/03/cutlerbroncos_feud_heats_up_bu.html



There's a lot of talk that if the Lions arent blown away by Stafford on the 31st that they'll deal the #1 overall and a 4th rounder to Denver for Cutler and the #12. Apparently the guys from McDaniels staff that were at UGA today were quite impressed with Stafford today. Make of that what you wish.


Sweet I hope the Bucs can land him:up: and Julius Peppers:wow: am i being greedy?

[Dark Donnie]

I'm with cmill here:confused: .08 is legally impaired anything above that and someone gets hurt you are in BIG trouble.

While I agree once you drink and drive and kill someone your in big trouble for sure. However the reading will help determine the sentence he gets. I've heard both .09 and .14 so I'm not sure which one is right, but I would expect that Stallworth will plead this to manslaughter and get somewhere between 3-5 years maximum.

[RAMORE]

From Fox:

Broncos owner: No room for an unhappy Cutlerby FOXSports.com

The agent for Jay Cutler says the offseason purge of coaches is at the root of the disgruntled quarterback's issues with the Broncos, and the team's owner is not sure the damage can be repaired.

"To tell you the truth, I have no answer to that question," Denver owner Pat Bowlen told NFL.com. "I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."

Agent Bus Cook said Bowlen's firing of head coach Mike Shanahan started an atmosphere of doubt that snowballed into mistrust once offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates was also dismissed.

"The owner assured him everything would be fine," Cook said. "The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach (Josh McDaniels) who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen disputed Cook's account of events.

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent," the owner said, according to NFL.com. "Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

Cook said Cutler did not push for a trade upon McDaniels' hiring, and that their relationship only disintegrated later when the quarterback learned his name had surfaced in trade talk as McDaniels apparently angled to land Matt Cassel from the Patriots.

"Jay called me and asked, 'Are they trying to trade me?' I told him, 'No, why would they try to do that?'"

A summit last week on the eve of offseason workouts failed to put Cutler's mind at ease.

"Jay told them he understood about the coach's relationship with Matt Cassel," Cook said. "At no time was the coach critical of Jay. In fact, he told Jay soon after he got to Denver that Jay was the reason he came to Denver. So, why was he trying to trade him? All the guy had to do was say, "I dropped the ball, I have a special bond with Cassel, you are my guy.'

"Jay never heard that. What he heard in the meeting was it could happen again."

Said Bowlen: "I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

[RAMORE]

While I agree once you drink and drive and kill someone your in big trouble for sure. However the reading will help determine the sentence he gets. I've heard both .09 and .14 so I'm not sure which one is right, but I would expect that Stallworth will plead this to manslaughter and get somewhere between 3-5 years maximum.

True. i've heard they did two readings one right away on an hour later that probably has to do with the two numbers floating around. If he get's a great lawyer he might not get Jail time if they can prove the guy was in the road or running across it. But he's out of the league and that kind of legal help will drain his funds he might be working MCD's in 3 years:csad:

[RAMORE]

Stafford's workout said to go well:



Stafford takes the stage on Georgia's pro dayAssociated Press

Updated: March 19, 2009, 4:14 PM EST 5 comments ATHENS, Ga. (AP) - Matthew Stafford showed off his strong arm Thursday for NFL scouts, an important step if he wants to realize his dream of being the No. 1 pick in next month's draft.

With representatives for each of the 32 professional teams watching, Stafford completed 45 of his 50 passes to four receivers on Georgia's pro day.
In a script of plays he said he wrote, Stafford zipped passes to each sideline, he threw deep routes - including one completion of at least 50 yards - and he threw while rolling to his right and left.

The workout was important because Stafford did not throw at the NFL combine in Indianapolis.

"I wanted to be able to throw a bunch of balls," Stafford said. "At Indy you get to throw about 10 to 15 and it was a good chance for me to get out here and throw 50 and let people see."

Stafford didn't give himself a grade but said "I think I did pretty good."

"I missed one or two that I just threw high but other than that I think I did well," he said. "This is how well you can throw in your shorts to a guy in a T-shirt with nobody guarding him, so it's important I guess for people to see the physical attributes, but it's not real football."

Stafford is projected by draft analysts as the possible top draft pick by Detroit. The Lions had five representatives at the workout, including general manager Martin Mayhew.

"It was a great workout, a great pro day," said Mayhew, who would not speak specifically about Stafford.

Jacksonville Jaguars quarterbacks coach Mike Shula said he was impressed by Stafford's throws.

"I think he's got a bright mind," Shula said. "I think he's a fast thinker and I think he has all the tools that an NFL quarterback is going to need to be successful."

Shula said Stafford's draft status should not be hurt by not throwing at the NFL combine.

"I think, especially with a guy who supposedly has a chance to be a very, very high pick, it's understandable," Shula said. "I think maybe guys down the line need that. We respect all that. Do we want everyone to work out at the combine? Yeah. We respect that, especially with someone who is in the position he's in."

Stafford was the star of the workout, but he wasn't the only Georgia player who is expected to be picked in the first round. Knowshon Moreno, who could be the first running back taken in the draft, also attracted much attention while posting times of 4.60 and 4.63 in the 40-yard dash.

"This atmosphere is not really as stressful as the combine," Moreno said. "It was good to get here and be with your teammates. It's more relaxed, but it's still a work day."

Georgia receiver Mohamed Massaquoi and cornerback Asher Allen also are projected as possible picks on the first day of the draft.

Stafford threw to Massaquoi, Kenneth Harris, Demiko Goodman and tight end Tripp Chandler.

Even with all the NFL executives on the Georgia practice fields, Moreno noted that Stafford still looked calm.

"He's always relaxed," Moreno said. "He's not feeling any pressure. He knows what his capabilities are."

Said Stafford: "It's been about what I expected. It's crazy but it's a lot of fun, too."

Stafford said he wouldn't worry about being drafted by a Detroit team that didn't win a game last season and has already visited with the Lions.

"I think it'd be an honor to be able to be picked No. 1 and also I want to get a chance to turn something around," he said. "It'd be a heck of a place for me to be able to go."

Southern Cal's Mark Sanchez joins Stafford as the highest rated quarterbacks in the draft.

When asked what he can bring to an NFL team, Stafford gave a quick response: "A guy who is physically gifted and mentally as well, and I'm a guy that they know what they're getting. I'm going to be the same every day no matter what's going on around me and that's accountable."

Stafford was a three-year starter at Georgia before bypassing his senior year to enter the draft.

He completed 235 of 383 passes (61.4 percent) for 3,459 yards with a school-record 25 touchdowns and 10 interceptions and was 27-7 as a starter in his career.

[RAMORE]

The Lions are holding a memorial service for Corey Smith who died here in FL on Saturday. RIP Corey.

[RAMORE]

Cool ESPN QB Ranking. Here are my picks, keep in mind that the guys in the draft are automatically in the bottom cause they have never played in the NFL so I can Judge yet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/rank?versionId=3&listId=23

1.Tom Brady
2.Peyton Manning
3.Drew Brees
4.Ben Roethlisberger
5.Kurt Warner
6.Eli Manning
7.Donovan McNabb
8.Carson Palmer
9.Jay Cutler
10.Chad Pennington
11.Aaron Rodgers
12.Philip Rivers
13.Matt Hasselbeck
14.Matt Ryan
15.Matt Schaub
16.Marc Bulger
17.Kerry Collins
18.Jason Campbell
19.Trent Edwards
20.Jake Delhomme
21.Matt Cassel
22.David Garrard
23.Tony Romo
24.Kyle Orton
25.Derek Anderson
26.Jeff Garcia
27.Joe Flacco
28.Tarvaris Jackson
29.Brady Quinn
30.Shaun Hill
31.JaMarcus Russell
32.Matthew Stafford
33.Mark Sanchez

[FaT_tONle]

On the Stallworth thing... didn't the accident happen at like 7:00 in the morning? I am sorry but if you are drinking that early... or that late into the night... and you hit and kill someone... you should be put away for a lot of time.

[The Game]

True. i've heard they did two readings one right away on an hour later that probably has to do with the two numbers floating around. If he get's a great lawyer he might not get Jail time if they can prove the guy was in the road or running across it. But he's out of the league and that kind of legal help will drain his funds he might be working MCD's in 3 years:csad:

Dont worry he can always pawn his 19-0 Superbowl ring..........oh wait :csad:

[Excel]

I dont think Stallworth will get that serious of legal punishment, depending on the readings obviously. According to the reports, the fact is the guy ran into the middle of appearently a very busy road, Stallworth was going under the speed limit, honked, and swerved, and STILL hit the guy.

[Erzengel]

But still under the influence. :huh:

[RAMORE]

But even if they can prove that excel with him being drunk it's always in the back of your head could he have reacted faster if he was sober? By the way i've been meaning to ask you what the hell is in your avvy it looks like the Joker from the campy tv show being pantsed:D

[Excel]

Americans funniest home videos; they were taping some guy carrying in a new t.v. and as they did his pants fell off.

I understand the "reaction" argument. I am just saying he was reportedlty fine from all reports. If he was barely over the limit I would say its reasonable to assume he has a higher tolerance. Cops are pretty good at figuring out if a driver has been drinking.

[ih8nyy]

PHILADELPHIA – A former NFL quarterback who failed to show for sentencing on drunken driving charges nearly four years ago was killed in a car crash in Greece, authorities said, leaving behind an unsolved mystery involving two suspicious fires and years spent on the lam.

The State Department used fingerprints to determine that the victim of Saturday's crash was William "Jeff" Komlo, according to Jim Vito, Chester County's acting chief detective. Vito said he was initially skeptical, concerned because of Komlo's history that he might have faked his own death.

"Even though we heard that he was deceased, the first reaction was that, well, we better make a positive identification," Vito said.

Once the State Department verified the fingerprints were those of the 52-year-old fugitive, Vito was satisfied.

"As far as we're concerned, we're closing this now."

A State Department spokesman, Noel Clay, declined to comment "out of respect for the family." He would not say where in Greece the accident happened or release any details of the crash.

Komlo played for the Detroit Lions, Atlanta Falcons and Tampa Bay Buccaneers over five NFL seasons from 1979 to 1983.

In July 2005, Komlo failed to show for sentencing on two drunken driving convictions.

Two months earlier, authorities had issued a warrant for Komlo when he didn't appear for a May 10 preliminary hearing on charges in an alleged assault on his girlfriend.

At the time he went missing, Komlo was under investigation for fires at his home in Chester Springs, Pa., and another home in Florida.

Komlo had lived in Chester Springs and worked as an insurance broker in the nearby Philadelphia suburb of Wayne. Authorities did not know what happened to him after he skipped the hearings in 2005.

"This guy apparently has created some intrigue over the years," Vito said.

After getting into 16 games his rookie year with the NFL, the 200-pound, 6-foot-2-inch quarterback played sporadically the rest of his career.

An NFL spokesman did not immediately comment Friday.

Komlo starred at the University of Delaware, leading the Blue Hens to the Division II national championship game in 1978. The Lions picked him in the 9th round of the 1979 NFL draft.

Scott Selheimer, Delaware's sports information director, said the school's thoughts go out to Komlo's friends and family.

"It's a tragic situation where someone, when they were here at the university, was kind of like a hero," Selheimer said. "It's a shame that his life kind of tumbled. He was going through so many troubled situations for so long."

An attorney who had represented Komlo in Palm Beach County, Fla., declined to comment Friday.

Two other attorneys who had represented him in Pennsylvania did not return telephone calls from The Associated Press. A telephone number for his ex-wife could not be located.

from yahoo.com

[StorminNorman]

Sweet I hope the Bucs can land him:up: and Julius Peppers:wow: am i being greedy?

That report has little validity.

Cool ESPN QB Ranking. Here are my picks, keep in mind that the guys in the draft are automatically in the bottom cause they have never played in the NFL so I can Judge yet.

1.Peyton Manning
2.Tom Brady
3.Drew Brees
4.Jay Cutler
5.Kurt Warner
6.Ben Roethlisberger
7.Eli Manning
8. Philip Rivers
9.Donovan McNabb
10. Tony Romo
11.Carson Palmer
12.Aaron Rodgers
13.Chad Pennington
14.Matt Hasselbeck
15.Matt Ryan
16.Matt Schaub
17.Marc Bulger
18.Matt Stafford
19.Kerry Collins
20.Trent Edwards
20.Jake Delhomme
21.David Garrard
22.Matt Cassel
23.Kyle Orton
24.Brady Quinn
25.Derek Anderson
26.Jason Campbell
27.Tarvaris Jackson
28. JaMarcus Russell
29.Shaun Hill
30. Joe Flacco
31.Mark Sanchez
32.Jeff Garcia


My rankings.

I dont think Stallworth will get that serious of legal punishment, depending on the readings obviously. According to the reports, the fact is the guy ran into the middle of appearently a very busy road, Stallworth was going under the speed limit, honked, and swerved, and STILL hit the guy.

Stallworth, at the very very least, is going to be nailed for DUI.

[NotFadeAway]

I still think the Lions should make some kind of trade with the Chiefs for Tyler Thigpen, perhaps a conditional 2010 draft pick in exchange. Thigpen is the guy they should be going after not, Cutler. I swear it right now, Thigpen will matter in this league. He will atleast be a "quality" Quarterback for a team, and the Lions should make themselves that team.

With Thigpen, the Lions can then draft Aaron Curry with the first pick in the draft, the kind of player they should make there team all about. And then with the 20th pick in the draft, they should take Eben Britton, an offensive tackle that nobody is really speaking about but he reminds me alot of Ryan Clady, the best tackle in last years draft. With there pick in the 2nd, the Lions could then take Connor Barwin, although they really have not made the necessary upgrades to there offensive line. A guy like Duke Preston is still on the market, they should really try and lock him up, a 326LBS Center would help in that division. Seeing that I'm not actually a Lions fan, I'm assuming Jeff Backus will be moved to Guard?

[NotFadeAway]

Based on my last post, I have this to say. The true victim in the Cassel/Cutler/McDaniels/Pioli drama is not Jay Cutler, it's Tyler Thigpen. I feel that this young Quarterback showed enough last season to earn the starting job. With a year under his belt and some solid quarterback coaching, I feel Thigpen can be a somebody in this league. Thigpen's best bet would be to play in a west coast offense, his skill set is best suited for it.

As a Carolina Panther fan, I'd love to swing a deal for Thigpen and dump Delhomme, not because Jake messed up so bad in the playoffs, but because he is old, inconsistent, and costly. Time to move on. BUT, I did say my piece about what the Lions should do. It's a game I play, like football fanfiction, I take the worst team in the league and imagine how I would try and fix things.

[NewYorkSpider]

Thigpen did do pretty well last season, but I think the Panthers will get a QB in this years draft. And Delhomme had ONE bad playoff game. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. If he screws up this season, then we can have someone else take the helm.

[RAMORE]

That report has little validity.



My rankings.





Really Tony "choke" Romo is a top 10 QB for you? You've got Cutler really high for a guy who hasn't won any big games yet.

[The Incredible Hulk]

^ It's a ranking of individual players, why would you take a team statistic like wins into the equation? Are you going to tell me that Trent Dilfer should be ranked above Dan Marino simply because he lucked his way into winning a Super Bowl?

Cutler's #'s are downright gaudy. 4500+ yds and 25 TD's? Not many QB's come anywhere near that.

[NotFadeAway]

Thigpen did do pretty well last season, but I think the Panthers will get a QB in this years draft. And Delhomme had ONE bad playoff game. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. If he screws up this season, then we can have someone else take the helm.

Oh I love Jake. I love what Jake has mean't to our team. 2nd best Quarterback in team history. Sorry, I'm a Steve Beurlein fan first and foremost. Beurlein with this past years team would have been downright incredible, I've felt that way about Beurlein being on alot of the Fox led Panter teams.

But anyway, fans have overreacted at Delhomme's game against the Cardinals. What worries me is how much Delhomme trailed off in the 2nd half of the season, his age, and his cap number. We ARE going to get lowballed for Peppers, and we have to deal him away, because it is illogical and downright assinine to keep him on the team with his cap figure and position toward the franchise.

And honestly, I just want Tyler Thigpen before someone else gets him.

[Cmill216]

Delhomme had an incredibly mediocre season when you consider how great of a running game he had behind him.

He never threw for three touchdowns. He had four games in which he threw more picks than touchdowns. And in the final eight games of the season, he threw only six touchdowns to six interceptions.

Couple this with the gargantuan failure in the postseason, and heck yes QB should be a priority for them.

[RAMORE]

Absolutely it should Delhomme should have been gone this IMO. Norman I get what your saying I do but their have been games big ones where he doesn't come through i'm not talking like take them to the superbowl or whatever. That being Said I would LOVE my bucs to get him:D Do you have a defens for Romo?

[StorminNorman]

I still think the Lions should make some kind of trade with the Chiefs for Tyler Thigpen, perhaps a conditional 2010 draft pick in exchange. Thigpen is the guy they should be going after not, Cutler. I swear it right now, Thigpen will matter in this league. He will atleast be a "quality" Quarterback for a team, and the Lions should make themselves that team.

Thigpen doesn't fit the Lions system though. Thigpen needs a spread offense to work in this league - his success came from that last year. I really like Thigpen, but he is best sitting behind Matt Cassel right now.

With Thigpen, the Lions can then draft Aaron Curry with the first pick in the draft, the kind of player they should make there team all about.

Drafting Aaron Curry would easily be the worst pick the Lions could make. Raji, J. Smith, E. Monroe, hell Andre Smith and Michael Crabtree would all be better picks at the number one spot than Aaron Curry. Aaron Curry's strength is his speed and mobility - making him a sexy as hell outside linebacker prospect. The problem is two of the Lions best players are...outside linebackers in Sims and Peterson. Aaron Curry's value on that team does not warrant 1st round money.

And then with the 20th pick in the draft, they should take Eben Britton, an offensive tackle that nobody is really speaking about but he reminds me alot of Ryan Clady, the best tackle in last years draft. With there pick in the 2nd, the Lions could then take Connor Barwin, although they really have not made the necessary upgrades to there offensive line. A guy like Duke Preston is still on the market, they should really try and lock him up, a 326LBS Center would help in that division. Seeing that I'm not actually a Lions fan, I'm assuming Jeff Backus will be moved to Guard?

LOL he doesn't resemble Clady at all. Britton is a right tackle that could make for a fantastic guard - Clady is a Left tackle.

Drafting Curry and than drafting Connor Barwin would be vintage Matt Millen. Why draft two linebackers when you already have two very good ones? Are you drafting Barwin to play TE? If so then you are leaving far better TE's on the board.

Also the Lions are trying to extend their current Centers deal, so a 346lb Center wouldn't make much sense after all.

Jeff Backus is a tackle and doesn't project well to Guard, though if the Lions draft a Jason Smith they would try it.

Thigpen did do pretty well last season, but I think the Panthers will get a QB in this years draft. And Delhomme had ONE bad playoff game. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. If he screws up this season, then we can have someone else take the helm.

I think the Panthers are probably leading the Pat White sweep stakes. He would help at slot receiver and returns immediately and then post Delhomme he could bring Mike Vick's Pro Option offense back to the NFC South with those two RB's.

Really Tony "choke" Romo is a top 10 QB for you? You've got Cutler really high for a guy who hasn't won any big games yet.

Guess what, before Superbowl XL Peyton "choke" Manning was my top QB in the league.

Cutler shouldn't be blamed for a team with no defense and no running game.

But anyway, fans have overreacted at Delhomme's game against the Cardinals. What worries me is how much Delhomme trailed off in the 2nd half of the season, his age, and his cap number. We ARE going to get lowballed for Peppers, and we have to deal him away, because it is illogical and downright assinine to keep him on the team with his cap figure and position toward the franchise.

It wouldn't be either illogical or asinine to keep the best player on the team. If you trade Peppers you are going to get some bank in return. The teams to watch are Green Bay, New England and Denver.

And honestly, I just want Tyler Thigpen before someone else gets him.

Tyler Thigpen to Carolina is a far better move than Tyler Thigpen to Detroit. Like a million times better.

[RAMORE]

But at least Peyton played consistently good during the year and some of the playoffs. I would have kept bledsoe that's right I said it.

[NotFadeAway]

Thigpen doesn't fit the Lions system though. Thigpen needs a spread offense to work in this league - his success came from that last year. I really like Thigpen, but he is best sitting behind Matt Cassel right now.



Drafting Aaron Curry would easily be the worst pick the Lions could make. Raji, J. Smith, E. Monroe, hell Andre Smith and Michael Crabtree would all be better picks at the number one spot than Aaron Curry. Aaron Curry's strength is his speed and mobility - making him a sexy as hell outside linebacker prospect. The problem is two of the Lions best players are...outside linebackers in Sims and Peterson. Aaron Curry's value on that team does not warrant 1st round money.



LOL he doesn't resemble Clady at all. Britton is a right tackle that could make for a fantastic guard - Clady is a Left tackle.

Drafting Curry and than drafting Connor Barwin would be vintage Matt Millen. Why draft two linebackers when you already have two very good ones? Are you drafting Barwin to play TE? If so then you are leaving far better TE's on the board.

Also the Lions are trying to extend their current Centers deal, so a 346lb Center wouldn't make much sense after all.

Jeff Backus is a tackle and doesn't project well to Guard, though if the Lions draft a Jason Smith they would try it.



I think the Panthers are probably leading the Pat White sweep stakes. He would help at slot receiver and returns immediately and then post Delhomme he could bring Mike Vick's Pro Option offense back to the NFC South with those two RB's.



Guess what, before Superbowl XL Peyton "choke" Manning was my top QB in the league.

Cutler shouldn't be blamed for a team with no defense and no running game.



It wouldn't be either illogical or asinine to keep the best player on the team. If you trade Peppers you are going to get some bank in return. The teams to watch are Green Bay, New England and Denver.



Tyler Thigpen to Carolina is a far better move than Tyler Thigpen to Detroit. Like a million times better.

I suppose the Lions could take Jason Smith with the first pick and then James Laurinitis or Ray Maulauga if he falls that far with the 20th pick. Although, I honestly feel Laurinitis is better off as an Outside Linebacker in the NFL. An MLB to watch for in the 3rd-4th round is Jason Phillips from TCU. Love that guy, I think he is going to be a solid MLB in the mold of Zach Thomas for whatever team drafts him.

I agree with you when you say that Carolina seems to be leading the Pat White sweepstakes. And I'd be happy with that pick, if it were made in the third round. Panthers need some D-line help in the 2nd, either Ron Brace or Robert Ayers. I believe Pat White can have a very Jeff Garcia-like career as an NFL Quarterback, and with the personnel in Carolina, he would be well off. The awesome running game, a wideout like Steve Smith, I can already see Pat White on consistent rollouts and in the shotgun formation with Williams and Stewart. But, Thigpen could run that offense to. I see Thigpen as tailor made for the run heavy version of the west coast offense, and while Carolina likes to throw it downfield, Steve Smith is the kinda Wideout who can make anything work, and I still believe in Dwayne Jarrett.

As for Julius Peppers, they cannot keep him. He is inconsistent to begin with, and the face of everything wrong with the team. Inconsistent with the ability to be great, but hardly ever is. Peppers is chewing up cap space, so much that the team cannot go get what it needs. Carolina had a better record last year than they should have, and thats a fan saying it. The defense really went down the crapper in the 2nd half of the season, for several reasons. The D-line was a wreck, and the crap zone coverages that Fox runs. We have the personnel to play man to man, so play man to man. Always play to your personnel. And the d-line needs a reboot. I was impressed with Kemo last season, but we need another big body, like Ron Brace. If we had the cap space, I would have went after Colin Cole from Green Bay. Speaking of Green Bay, I'd like to swing a deal sending Pppers there for Aaron Kampman and a 2nd. I believe that Charles Johnson can be a quality pass rusher, along with Hilee Taylor. And here is hoping that Dan Connor returns with a fire under his ass and takes Nai'l Diggs spot at Linebacker.

The biggest thing witht he Panthers that needs changed is there overall attitude. Come out fired up and swinging, drop this whole Ohio State Buckeye mentality and come out full of piss and vineager, ready to whip someones ass. I respect and appreciate everything John Fox has done for the franchise, and I have been a fierce supporter of Fox, but more and more, I'm starting to want a guy with that Rex Ryan attitude, I was a little jealous listening to his press conferences. On my shortlist of coaches to consider if Fox is fired next year, I have Rob Ryan, Sean McDermott, Brian Schottenheimer, and Kyle Shananahan.

[StorminNorman]

But at least Peyton played consistently good during the year and some of the playoffs. I would have kept bledsoe that's right I said it.

Tony Romo plays consistently good during the year. I am going to ignore that last comment.

I suppose the Lions could take Jason Smith with the first pick and then James Laurinitis or Ray Maulauga if he falls that far with the 20th pick. Although, I honestly feel Laurinitis is better off as an Outside Linebacker in the NFL. An MLB to watch for in the 3rd-4th round is Jason Phillips from TCU. Love that guy, I think he is going to be a solid MLB in the mold of Zach Thomas for whatever team drafts him.

Laurinits and Maulauga are both likely to be on the board at 20, and I wouldn't pick either in that situation. Laurinitis is not an outside backer, he lacks the speed needed for the position. The guy is a text book MLB. He is also likely going to still be on the board at 2-1.

Jason Phillips is an interesting prospect, but he is a better fit for a 3-4 defense.

I agree with you when you say that Carolina seems to be leading the Pat White sweepstakes. And I'd be happy with that pick, if it were made in the third round. Panthers need some D-line help in the 2nd, either Ron Brace or Robert Ayers.

It's very likely both Brace and Ayers will be gone by the time Carolina picks. Brace is unlikely to slip past Miami at 2-24. Brace is the second best 3-4 DT in this draft. Ayers is probably a first round player.

I believe Pat White can have a very Jeff Garcia-like career as an NFL Quarterback, and with the personnel in Carolina, he would be well off. The awesome running game, a wideout like Steve Smith, I can already see Pat White on consistent rollouts and in the shotgun formation with Williams and Stewart. But, Thigpen could run that offense to. I see Thigpen as tailor made for the run heavy version of the west coast offense, and while Carolina likes to throw it downfield, Steve Smith is the kinda Wideout who can make anything work, and I still believe in Dwayne Jarrett.

Thigpen wouldn't be a bad pick at all for Carolina, but I don't think Kansas City is in any hurry to get rid of him. Cassel still is only one a one year contract and he hasn't proven that he can succeed without Josh McDaniels, Randy Moss, Wes Welker and the New England Patriots.

As for Julius Peppers, they cannot keep him. He is inconsistent to begin with, and the face of everything wrong with the team. Inconsistent with the ability to be great, but hardly ever is. Peppers is chewing up cap space, so much that the team cannot go get what it needs. Carolina had a better record last year than they should have, and thats a fan saying it. The defense really went down the crapper in the 2nd half of the season, for several reasons. The D-line was a wreck, and the crap zone coverages that Fox runs. We have the personnel to play man to man, so play man to man. Always play to your personnel. And the d-line needs a reboot. I was impressed with Kemo last season, but we need another big body, like Ron Brace. If we had the cap space, I would have went after Colin Cole from Green Bay. Speaking of Green Bay, I'd like to swing a deal sending Pppers there for Aaron Kampman and a 2nd. I believe that Charles Johnson can be a quality pass rusher, along with Hilee Taylor. And here is hoping that Dan Connor returns with a fire under his ass and takes Nai'l Diggs spot at Linebacker.

A lot of what you said here is true, but Carolina has to get value for Peppers.

[Raiden]

I heard on the radio that Jets' GM said the team is interested to go after Jay Cutler, but I'm not sure how they can do that with the draft picks that they have. Then again, maybe Broncos would rather have lower draft pick so they can save on the rookie signing bonus.

[StorminNorman]

I really don't think Cutler will be traded.

[Raiden]

I really don't think Cutler will be traded.

You think Cutler and the Broncos organization will patch up after that ugly public fallout?

[StorminNorman]

You think Cutler and the Broncos organization will patch up after that ugly public fallout?

Chad Johnson is still in Cinci.
Anquan Boldin is still in Arizona.
Lance Briggs is still in Chicago.

[Holiday]

Right now, I'm leaning towards Cutler getting traded. I dunno why Denver even considered it, but I think too much damage has been done and he'll be playing somewhere else this year.

[Cunning Stunts]

Chad Johnson is still in Cinci.
Anquan Boldin is still in Arizona.
Lance Briggs is still in Chicago.

But none of them are Jay Cutler.

I think he's gone. He'll probably pull one of those, "I'm not playing for you guys," this year in order to get traded.

[Excel]

Chad Johnson is still in Cinci.
Anquan Boldin is still in Arizona.
Lance Briggs is still in Chicago.

Johnson and Boldin were always told they were going nowhere; the Broncos owner just said that fi Cutlers unhappy theres no reason for him to be there.

[Excel]

The Boston Herald is saying New England will host Buffalo for the first Monday Night Football game of 2009 :up: :up: :up:

[StorminNorman]

Johnson and Boldin were always told they were going nowhere; the Broncos owner just said that fi Cutlers unhappy theres no reason for him to be there.

McDaniels on Cutler: ‘He’s our quarterback’

[Mastodon123]

Hes just saying that because he wants to meet with Cutler one more time. If they do meet, and it doesn't go well hes gone. I think its been said before they wanted to meet Cutler one more time before they entertain any trade offers.

[Go Web Go!]

DANA POINT, Calif. -- The Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers will open the 2009 NFL season in Pittsburgh on Sept. 10 against the Tennessee Titans.

In announcing the opening weekend's nationally televised games, the league also said the Chicago Bears will play at Green Bay in the first Sunday night game. Both the Titans-Steelers and Bears-Packers games will be on NBC.

The Monday night doubleheader on ESPN on Sept. 14 will feature Buffalo, with Terrell Owens, at New England, with, the Patriots hope, a returning Tom Brady. That game will be followed by San Diego at Oakland.

No changes were made in the traditional Thanksgiving afternoon games, which again will be hosted by Detroit and Dallas.

The Lions go back to meeting the Packers that day, a matchup that lasted several decades on the holiday, but only happens sporadically nowadays. The Raiders will be at the Cowboys following that, and the NFL Network night game will feature the New York Giants at Denver.

The Cowboys could not open their new stadium on the first weekend of the regular season because baseball's Texas Rangers are at home in their nearby ballpark. Cowboys vice president Stephen Jones indicated his team would be at home in Week 2 and a prime-time game was likely.



Aside from the opener on Thursday night & Giants/Broncos on Thanksgiving, these get a great big "MEH" from me.

[That-Guy]

Damn it. I was hoping to see the Steelers on Thanksgiving. But no, we have to have the f**king Cowboys and the Lions.

[Excel]

Raiders will beat SD

[Go Web Go!]

Eventually

[Raiden]

Raiders will beat SD

I don't see how that can happen, even though Nov Turner is imo a mediocre coach. Chargers are just more talented than Raiders, and they have better QB.

[Excel]

The Oakland offense will be legit next season once they bag Crabtree.

[NotFadeAway]

The Oakland offense will be legit next season once they bag Crabtree.

They should bag and offensive tackle and play Khalif Barnes at Right Tackle.

[RAMORE]

They have multiple needs but they are slowly getting better and if Al Davis would stop meddling they might have a chance to get back in to the serious mix.

[Excel]

Russell was legit this season, nobody noticed. With Crabtree and the new tackle he ought to have more time. Hopefully they get Fargas outta there and begin the McFadden/Bush speed/Power combo that will carry them the next 10 years.

[Raiden]

Russell was legit this season, nobody noticed. With Crabtree and the new tackle he ought to have more time. Hopefully they get Fargas outta there and begin the McFadden/Bush speed/Power combo that will carry them the next 10 years.

I still believe that Raiders need to get rid of Al Davis if they truly want to get better. Davis is far too meddling and he really does hinder the progress of the team.

[RAMORE]

Exactly my point.

[Alex The Great]

I still believe that Raiders need to get rid of Al Davis if they truly want to get better. Davis is far too meddling and he really does hinder the progress of the team.
Davis just needs to die. Some say he's less than 100 years old, but I demand carbon dating on the matter. I think he's already dead, just no one has told him yet.

[Alex The Great]

Damn it. I was hoping to see the Steelers on Thanksgiving. But no, we have to have the f**king Cowboys and the Lions.
Really? How come it seems it's always the Cowboys in the thanksgiving game? ugh.

But a Titans/Steelers game should be good.

[Raiden]

Really? How come it seems it's always the Cowboys in the thanksgiving game? ugh.

But a Titans/Steelers game should be good.

I think they should have Cowboys vs 'Skins on Thanksgiving. :word:

[Go Web Go!]

I still believe that Raiders need to get rid of Al Davis if they truly want to get better. Davis is far too meddling and he really does hinder the progress of the team.

Unfortunately for the Raiders, they cannot cut, release, or buy him out. They have to wait it out until the old man kicks the bucket.

[Dark Donnie]

There is reportedly "talk" at the Owners' Meetings of the Eagles expressing interest in Braylon Edwards.
The Giants definitely tried trading for Edwards, but the Eagles are new to the discussion. Both have also speculatively been linked to Anquan Boldin. The Browns claim they aren't shopping Edwards, but it's believed that everyone on their roster besides D'Qwell Jackson and Joe Thomas is available.
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

[danielisthor]

Unfortunately for the Raiders, they cannot cut, release, or buy him out. They have to wait it out until the old man kicks the bucket.

Al Davis prolongs his life by bathing in the blood of babies. :wow:

[Cunning Stunts]

McDaniels on Cutler: ‘He’s our quarterback’

Again, he's not Cutler. Both McDaniels and Cutler handled their respective situations like children, and I don't expect Cutler to want to stick around after all that. Also, keep in mind, McDaniels saying, "He's our quarterback," was more than likely just good P.R. advice from Denver's P.R. officials.

[Excel]

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

:applaud

[Kelly]

I think they should have Cowboys vs 'Skins on Thanksgiving. :word:


Amen...

[Alex The Great]

Al Davis prolongs his life by bathing in the blood of babies. :wow:
He sneaked onto Noah's Ark before it saled away.

[Bond]

The Cowboys' first Thanksgiving Day opponent in the new stadium is going to be:

The Oakland ****ing Raiders.

:dry:

[FaT_tONle]

I think they should have Cowboys vs 'Skins on Thanksgiving. :word:

Cowboys are on CBS next year so they can't. Should have been San Diego at Dallas though. Maybe Jerry did not want a tough opponent and got out of that matchup.

As for the week 2 prime timer... I am thinking the G-Men... but more likely... the Skins in a Sunday Nighter.

[Cmill216]

Who the **** keeps giving the Raiders primetime games? Seriously?

Take for example the freakin' Monday Night Opener. You could have had a San Diego home game against Philadelphia, or an Arizona home game against Indianapolis.

But the Raiders? Come on.

[FaT_tONle]

Raiders still have a big national fanbase. Cowboys and Steelers are far and away numbers one and two. But the Raiders are probably top five. Philli and Arizona are small market and do not draw big ratings nationally. Same with San Diego. They only draw big ratings when they are pitted with teams like Indy, NE, Pitt.

[Cmill216]

IMO, that's a BS excuse. When's the last time a Raiders primetime game was a huge ratings draw?

People will watch an NFL game if it's a sexy matchup. The NFL fanbase will tune in.

[NewYorkSpider]

Arizona should have got a primetime game since they were in the Super Bowl. Arizona vs Indianapolis or Arizona vs Carolina would have been great matchups to start off with.

[FaT_tONle]

Well first of all Raiders are playing the Cowboys Thanksgiving at 4:30 ET... so I don't think that is really a prime time matchup. Second of all, even if it is, the Cowboys only have one other possible opponent on Thanksgiving because they are on CBS... and since they were on the road against San Diego and Oakland in 2005... they MUST host them in 2009. And Dallas doesn't play road games on Thanksgiving. I am sure Jerry did not want San Diego in that slot because they will draw ratings on Turkey Day regardless of who they play, and you can save that San Diego game for a another time in November or December in a 4:15 spot for Fox or CBS. Unless Raiders are scheduled for another prime time spot I am unaware of that you are referring to. But go back to 2007 for a minute... why did Dallas play the Jets instead of the Pats on Thanksgiving??? Because Pats/Cowboys week 5 in a 4:15 CBS slot earlier in the year would draw HUGE ratings as well.