Captain America's Costume

[ultimatefan]

"In the first USO sequences, the frustrated patriot will be wearing a version that is closer to the classic Jack Kirby-designed costume, but then later as the super-soldier hits the war zone he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs. The stripes across his mid-section, for instance, will be straps, not colored fabric."


Oh, man...that sounds bad. If you don't want to put the guy from the comics onscreen then don't make the movie. Like the black leather X-Men unis...ugh.

There are tons of versions from more recent comics where Cap´s costume gets more practical and similar to a real combat suit, and yet it has the star and stripes, mask and boots. Like I said, the nineties CA movie had a comics-accurate costume and it still sucked major monkey balls.

[marcvader]

The whole USO idea makes perfect sense. Any one in there right mind would be initially aprehensive to wear that gaudy costume. But Steve realizes it actually helps in inspiring in the field. Logical

[roach]

There are tons of versions from more recent comics where Cap´s costume gets more practical and similar to a real combat suit, and yet it has the star and stripes, mask and boots. Like I said, the nineties CA movie had a comics-accurate costume and it still sucked major monkey balls.

which ones?

[afan]

How does the USO costume angle get Cap his indestructable shield?

[ultimatefan]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s232/tracygirl15/Marvel20-20Captain20America202.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/ChaoticCharm/captain_america.jpg

http://www.**************.com/images/users/uploads/8558/@@@Captain_America_by_JPRart.jpg


Of course these are modern day costumes, but they follow the trend of making the costume closer to a soldier´s actual uniform, with the helmet, the belts with pouches, the chest protection, yet it keeps the iconic elements - expect the wings in the Ultimates one, but I myself never cared for those.

[ultimatefan]

I suspect in battle he may look a little closer to this:

http://th04.deviantart.net/fs50/300W/f/2009/268/7/a/WWII_Ultimate_Captain_America_by_ReillyBrown.jpg

Which is more what he´d look like if he were a soldier in World War II, it may not need this much change, but it may be around those lines.

[C. Lee]

You're not or you would be pissed. How could any true Kirby fan like the idea of his Cap costume being dubbed as a silly suit for USO shows and for it to be despised by Cap?

First of all....I'm getting really tired of you thinking YOU can proclaim who is or isn't a fan of Captain America. Please do some research...and learn the difference between FAN and FANATIC.

Secondly....here is a link to the article http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/02/captain-america-will-be-a-uso-performer-in-the-movie-director-says.html read it without the fanatical blinders on. It explains that Steve is forced to wear the suit in the USO show instead of being allowed to fight in the war...THAT is what he rebels against...NOT BEING ALLOWED TO FIGHT. It says he runs off and joins the war, and then sees how the suit can be a great rallying point for the soldiers around him, and so modifies it some for actual combat conditions (because a suit made to be worn in USO stage performance is not a smart thing to wear in actual combat....or are you implying that Cap is an idiot and would wear a stage costume into battle?).

Speaking as someone who has read and collected Captain America since the mid 60's....I find it very offensive to have you keep saying I am not a fan because I don't think exactly as you do. Remember....Kirby may be God, but you aren't.

[C. Lee]

How does the USO costume angle get Cap his indestructable shield?

We haven't heard all the specifics yet...so as a guess, I would say that they give him some kind of flimsy shield to use in the stage show, and later when he runs off to the war he uses something tougher as a shield in an actual combat situation, and from there the war department comes up with the shield we are used to for him to use.

[marcvader]

I suspect he doesn't have a shield initially. But after proving himself in the field he's given one by the now consentual higher ups.
I'm really happy with the plausible solution they came up with to get the Kirby costume on the big screen. Now we get the wings, gauntlets, and pirate boots and it make total sense.

[roach]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s232/tracygirl15/Marvel20-20Captain20America202.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/ChaoticCharm/captain_america.jpg

http://www.**************.com/images/users/uploads/8558/@@@Captain_America_by_JPRart.jpg


Of course these are modern day costumes, but they follow the trend of making the costume closer to a soldier´s actual uniform, with the helmet, the belts with pouches, the chest protection, yet it keeps the iconic elements - expect the wings in the Ultimates one, but I myself never cared for those.

I consider pic 1 and 3 to be the same costume just a different artist interpretation...and I consider those to be the classic Cap costume

[ultimatefan]

I consider pic 1 and 3 to be the same costume just a different artist interpretation...

Still, it shows comic book artists are making an effort to make his suit more practical for combat. Just like Adi Granov made the IM suit look more of an actual practical hi-tech armor than a superhero costume with metallic glow. The movie suit would have been called blasphemous a decade ago, but it fits the post-Granov style of design.

[SpiderByte]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/4030368156_f2e6216566.jpg

If this does not SCREAM "Soldier" I don't know what does.

[SpiderByte]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/4030368156_f2e6216566.jpg

If this does not SCREAM "Soldier" I don't know what does.

[roach]

Still, it shows comic book artists are making an effort to make his suit more practical for combat. Just like Adi Granov made the IM suit look more of an actual practical hi-tech armor than a superhero costume with metallic glow. The movie suit would have been called blasphemous a decade ago, but it fits the post-Granov style of design.

I dont see a difference in that suit than what Cap has worn since he went to the full cowl...its an artists interpretation....its not an actual change in costume say like when Batman went from black bat on chest to the oval

[afan]

We haven't heard all the specifics yet...so as a guess, I would say that they give him some kind of flimsy shield to use in the stage show, and later when he runs off to the war he uses something tougher as a shield in an actual combat situation, and from there the war department comes up with the shield we are used to for him to use.

I do find it interesting tho' that the shield is not mentioned in any of Johnston's quotes. Is there any more Captain America iconic item than his shield?

[roach]

I do find it interesting tho' that the shield is not mentioned in any of Johnston's quotes. Is there any more Captain America iconic item than his shield?

Pirate boots????
j/k I agree with you

[Blackman]

I know this is going to start a war, but...

I think the wings are iconic Cap. I know they changed them in the Ultimate universe, but then again the Ultimateverse changed alot of iconic looks

[roach]

I know this is going to start a war, but...

I think the wings are iconic Cap. I know they changed them in the Ultimate universe, but then again the Ultimateverse changed alot of iconic looks

No war from me...I agree

[ultimatefan]

I dont see a difference in that suit than what Cap has worn since he went to the full cowl...its an artists interpretation....its not an actual change in costume say like when Batman went from black bat on chest to the oval

The belt with pouches or the helmet-like mask orth absence of wings are as much of a cange in costume as black to oval emblem (or tubes utility belt to pouches utility belt).

[Boom]

Thing to remember is that this is an origin story that takes place during WWII. If the movie is successful, and there is a sequel, and it takes place in modern day, then it's possible that CA will adopt a more traditional superhero costume (i.e. a more refined version of his USO uniform).

It's speculative, and far too early to tell, but I doubt they'd have CA wearing WWII battle togs in the 2000's.

[SpiderByte]

Yes, but he will during WWII ;)

[terry78]

How about we just say we want Will Smith as Cap? That will make this entire debate seem moot.

[Rock Sexton]

Thing to remember is that this is an origin story that takes place during WWII. If the movie is successful, and there is a sequel, and it takes place in modern day, then it's possible that CA will adopt a more traditional superhero costume (i.e. a more refined version of his USO uniform).

It's speculative, and far too early to tell, but I doubt they'd have CA wearing WWII battle togs in the 2000's.

I agree with this. I think he'll become more stylized in The Avengers.

[SpiderByte]

How about we just say we want Will Smith as Cap? That will make this entire debate seem moot.
....

Wow, it DID. Thanks!

[TheVileOne]

I got to be honest, Johnston's comments did raise up some red flags for me IMHO.

However, all the IT WOULD LOOK TOO CHEESY onscreen to me is ********. Look at Spider-man. All they really did was touch up the classic look.

[TikkiEXX]

I got to be honest, Johnston's comments did raise up some red flags for me IMHO.

However, all the IT WOULD LOOK TOO CHEESY onscreen to me is ********. Look at Spider-man. All they really did was touch up the classic look.
but Spiderman isnt in the middle of one of the worst wars of all time. it just makes sense that he would wear something sturdier than the original costume.

[TheVileOne]

but Spiderman isnt in the middle of one of the worst wars of all time. it just makes sense that he would wear something sturdier than the original costume.
Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.

[roach]

Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.

amen

[marcvader]

I love it that they're going Kirby, maybe not for the entire film but a good portion of it.

[RogueDK]

Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.
Well said. :awesome:

[Chris Wallace]

Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.
THANK YOU!
:applaud
I am still waiting for anyone to show me where the "military" aspect of Captain America's look mattered at all prior to this "Ultimate" nonsense.

[Compi716]

Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.
Thank you very much. Lots of posters have been ganging up on people like Kurosawa just for having a conflicting opinion, but he (as does VileOne) brings up excellent points. A comic-accurate costume CAN work, and there needn't be a "realism" excuse.

And for those that even dare use an image from the 1990 costume to disprove my point...that suit is RUBBER. Cap's costume uses CHAINMAIL and DENIM, two elements NOT scene on the 1990 movie costume.

[Chris Wallace]

Here's a thought; if the whole point of the serum was to try and create a different kind of soldier, who's to say they wouldn't try to create a different kind of uniform as well?

[Artistsean]

While I have been focusing on the idea that Cap feels like an outsider (first because he is imperfect and then because he is TOO perfect) there is also the angle of Captain America inspiring people.
Its logical that Cap would be kept out of action because he is the last super soldier and the Government is afraid of loosing him.
When he does go into action in his Red White and Blue costume the inspiration will be accidental and not arranged by the Government.
Plus, if they do use the Invaders, he inspires everyone around the world.
And Bucky could be so inspired that he sneaks into the war and becomes Cap's sidekick, or second in command of the Invaders, or partner, and friend.

Cap's big theme is inspiration, I forgot that that would be a major part of the story.

The USO idea sounds good to me, makes sense and they do sort of need to explain to people who think "why is he fighting in WWII wearing something that would get him spotted so easily and killed so quickly."
I don't think the costume is going to be a joke, hearing Jon Favreau (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0269463/) about the classic big gray "Jack Kirby Designed" Iron Man armor he said you want to include things from the comic people love. Even the big clunky lame (or did he say silly) armor is in the movie. So he talked about Kirby's original armor design for Iron Man as a joke and in the movie it was an awesome tribute.
So just because the director says something like Steve doesn't like wearing the silly costume, doesn't mean thats how it will translate in the movie.

Also, its reasonable that Steve (who enlisted to help fight, was turned into a super soldier, and is then prohibited from fighting and forced into a USO show in a costume) might not be too happy wearing a costume and being in a USO show instead of fighting like he always intended.
(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0269463/)

[Raiden]

Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.

I agree. From what I read from Joe Johnson's interview, it seems like Rogers would be embarrassed to wear the American flag in the beginning, and later when he finally accepted the costume, he decided to mute the colors to make it less "showboaty". This is wrong. Cap's costume may be a bit corny, but it is no less so than Superman wearing his underwear on the outside. Captain America is unique because he does wear the American flag, and he embodies it, both symbolically and physically. It seems to me that Joe Johnson still doesn't really "get" Captain America from his interview.

Btw, if Johnson wants to make the costume more realistic, he can check out Millar/Hitch's The Ultimates for some inspiration.

[louiebling$]

First of all....I'm getting really tired of you thinking YOU can proclaim who is or isn't a fan of Captain America. Please do some research...and learn the difference between FAN and FANATIC.

Secondly....here is a link to the article http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/02/captain-america-will-be-a-uso-performer-in-the-movie-director-says.html read it without the fanatical blinders on. It explains that Steve is forced to wear the suit in the USO show instead of being allowed to fight in the war...THAT is what he rebels against...NOT BEING ALLOWED TO FIGHT. It says he runs off and joins the war, and then sees how the suit can be a great rallying point for the soldiers around him, and so modifies it some for actual combat conditions (because a suit made to be worn in USO stage performance is not a smart thing to wear in actual combat....or are you implying that Cap is an idiot and would wear a stage costume into battle?).

Speaking as someone who has read and collected Captain America since the mid 60's....I find it very offensive to have you keep saying I am not a fan because I don't think exactly as you do. Remember....Kirby may be God, but you aren't.
THANK YOU !!

:bow:

[NoirMan82]

edit

[NoirMan82]

C. Lee summed it up perfectly, and Johnson's logic on Cap is sound and makes complete sense. I don't get a the hubub.

[Cuyan]

C. Lee has brought peace and balance to the force. :up:

[SpiderByte]

For the next....week or so.

[Cuyan]

Darth Kurosawa :cmad:

[Shockdingo]

A week? Good enough for me!
But in all honesty, I'm getting more and more excited now that news has been popping up again. I really am liking what I hear about Cap's personality; the idea of him being angered and rebellious so that he can join the war is beautiful. I always liked that Cap had the courage and bravery to do what's right even if popular opinion goes against him.

General:"You're valuable, don't you dare think of fighting mister!" *Cap runs off before the speech is even finished, hustled past Nazi guards, punches off Hitler's mustache*

Cap:"lolpunch"

In all seriousness though, I'm glad to hear that they'll be giving him a personality. Can't wait to see the lucky dude who gets cast!

[C. Lee]

From our site's FAQ -
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[SpiderByte]

Sorry bout that.

Anyway, I'm excited for how they will portray the Invaders. Jack, especially.

[TikkiEXX]

Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.thats all good man, but the director has stated many times that he,s aiming to make a war movie. and guys are reading comics over in Iraq and Afghanistan too, how do you think theyd react to a guy running around wearing a flag in the middle of a combat zone? theyd probably think the guy was nuts. just because the guys read comics DOES NOT mean they would accept that in real life. i gaurantee theyd laugh in Caps face and call him a loon if you want to bring real life into this. and you can hate it all you want to, its not gonna change. theyre making this movie for people other than you and the changes are more than reasonable.

[Deaths Head II]

I think it makes sense to make Cap's costume fit the atmosphere of the film.

People are also not considering the fact that there is a vary strong chance he will get a more super hero-like costume in Avengers. I doubt he'll be walking around with an outfit suited for WWII in that film while walking around all the modern super heroes. Plus, him getting a Spider-Man like outfit with fancy textures and fabric would make more sense if it's made by SHIELD in the present then if it's made in the 40s.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I think it makes sense to make Cap's costume fit the atmosphere of the film.

People are also not considering the fact that there is a vary strong chance he will get a more super hero-like costume in Avengers. I doubt he'll be walking around with an outfit suited for WWII in that film while walking around all the modern super heroes. Plus, him getting a Spider-Man like outfit with fancy textures and fabric would make more sense if it's made by SHIELD in the present then if it's made in the 40s.


Run. Run before they kill you. I'll hold them off! :cmad:

[Art_of_Crime]

I love it that they're going Kirby, maybe not for the entire film but a good portion of it.
it will be cool to have a nod to the comics and all of the hardcore fans.

[Kurosawa]

Then nothing about these stories makes sense.

People said Galactus would only make sense as a giant storm cloud, then how the **** does having a humanoid riding on a silver ****ing surfboard make any sense?

Did it make sense that Indiana Jones was always about to run and jump around in a fedora that he never lost?

Guys this isn't ****ing history here. This is a fictional comic character from a fictional comic story.

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.

:applaud

[Kurosawa]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/4030368156_f2e6216566.jpg

If this does not SCREAM "Soldier" I don't know what does.

It screams something else to me, but it does start with the letter "S".

[SpiderByte]

It screams something else to me, but it does start with the letter "S".

To each his own. Although I guess it isn't exactly true to the original comics, but still, its an interesting angle for it.

If they can get Kirby's suit to work well, then I'll be happy. But It won't be easy to get it done, Cap has a very, very different outfit from most heroes. The shield will be one of the tougher bits, making it look true to the comics while still looking good, mainly making it look aerodynamic when it'st thrown.

[Cuyan]

In combat, I'd rather see "soldier" than "spandex".

[roach]

To each his own. Although I guess it isn't exactly true to the original comics, but still, its an interesting angle for it.

If they can get Kirby's suit to work well, then I'll be happy. But It won't be easy to get it done, Cap has a very, very different outfit from most heroes. The shield will be one of the tougher bits, making it look true to the comics while still looking good, mainly making it look aerodynamic when it'st thrown.

the shield should be the easiest thing to do

[roach]

thats all good man, but the director has stated many times that he,s aiming to make a war movie. and guys are reading comics over in Iraq and Afghanistan too, how do you think theyd react to a guy running around wearing a flag in the middle of a combat zone? theyd probably think the guy was nuts. just because the guys read comics DOES NOT mean they would accept that in real life. i gaurantee theyd laugh in Caps face and call him a loon if you want to bring real life into this. and you can hate it all you want to, its not gonna change. theyre making this movie for people other than you and the changes are more than reasonable.

really...half the planet believed in blue aliens on another planet, robot transforming into cars, a boy wizard riding a broom stick, glittering vampires falling in love....written well you can get people to believe in anything

[SpiderByte]

The design, yes. But making it look like it has more functionality than, say, a trash can lid, will be the hard part.

[roach]

I still dont see how its going to be hard

[Art_of_Crime]

It screams something else to me, but it does start with the letter "S".

"stop whining"?

not to be a prick, but isn't this better than nothing?
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/RPG_MB/Ultimate_Captain_America_by_Madurei.jpg
i honestly think this looks great.

[SpiderByte]

Don't. Start. That. Again.

Keep the peace for at least 24 hours.

[Art_of_Crime]

fine.

[Kurosawa]

"stop whining"?

not to be a prick, but isn't this better than nothing?
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/RPG_MB/Ultimate_Captain_America_by_Madurei.jpg
i honestly think this looks great.

Change the brown to red and remove the star from the shoulder and it's acceptable.

[Kurosawa]

Grrr...here's something we can all agree on..weird hype lag sucks.

[Art_of_Crime]

Grrr...here's something we can all agree on..weird hype lag sucks.
agree, and as for your brown to red comment. works for me.

[roach]

add wings and Im happy

[louiebling$]

add wings and Im happy
This Wings are a Must

[SpiderByte]

Change the brown to red and remove the star from the shoulder and it's acceptable.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii289/SpiderByte_photo/Ultimate_Captain_America_by_Madurei.jpg

[roach]

and add the head wings

[Kurosawa]

Yeah, it is hard to have 'ol winghead without wings.

[irapogi]

You guys can say practical and sensical, but you want to know something? Do you know what soldiers were reading in the trenches of World War II? Soldiers were reading Captain America comic books. Soldiers back then didn't seem to care that the costume didn't make any sense. And this was a time when comics were outselling what they do now a hundred times over.

okay, sorry to be a party pooper, and as much as i'd love to agree with you, the sad truth, is that we're in a different time and milieu.

extreme example, back then, people thought it was okay to segregate "whites" and "coloreds"

so for today's general audience it might be hard for them to take a kirby captain america leading the trenches seriously.

me personally, i'd be okay with it, but that's cos i've been reading comics since the late 70s. but marvel studios can't make a movie that only caters to the hardcore fans.

so we can argue what's best for the fans but that's a moot point, what's best for the general public on the other hand, might not be agreed by all. But i'm a fan, not a fanatic. I'm slightly concerned with what Johnston said, but i'm thinking positive, and i'm open to be pleasantly surprised.

:woot:

peace

[TheVileOne]

thats all good man, but the director has stated many times that he,s aiming to make a war movie. and guys are reading comics over in Iraq and Afghanistan too, how do you think theyd react to a guy running around wearing a flag in the middle of a combat zone? theyd probably think the guy was nuts. just because the guys read comics DOES NOT mean they would accept that in real life. i gaurantee theyd laugh in Caps face and call him a loon if you want to bring real life into this. and you can hate it all you want to, its not gonna change. theyre making this movie for people other than you and the changes are more than reasonable.

OK, but this isn't just a war movie. Captain America never existed and never fought in World War II. A movie isn't real life either. You can't prove to me this or that would get laughed at.

[TheVileOne]

okay, sorry to be a party pooper, and as much as i'd love to agree with you, the sad truth, is that we're in a different time and milieu.

extreme example, back then, people thought it was okay to segregate "whites" and "coloreds"

Seriously man, what the hell are we talking about here? This is the same era that created Captain America, a white blond haired blue eyed superhero, so I guess that's WRONG as well?

so for today's general audience it might be hard for them to take a kirby captain america leading the trenches seriously.

Seriously man, Kirby isn't the only guy that worked on Captain America and was not the only guy to draw him fighting in World War II. There are multiple interpretations to go by. So it doesn't have to be forced to look exactly like the Kirby costume in World War II with a mask that was totally separate from the upper portion of the outfit and what not.

me personally, i'd be okay with it, but that's cos i've been reading comics since the late 70s. but marvel studios can't make a movie that only caters to the hardcore fans.

so we can argue what's best for the fans but that's a moot point, what's best for the general public on the other hand, might not be agreed by all. But i'm a fan, not a fanatic. I'm slightly concerned with what Johnston said, but i'm thinking positive, and i'm open to be pleasantly surprised.

How do you know so much about what the general public wants? Are you not aware that the Spider-man franchise is a multi-billion dollar movie franchise and he's basically wearing tights as his costume in all those movies? Compare that to how laughably bad the 70's TV costume was.

[weezerspider]

Fine. IN MY OPINION anyone who likes the idea of Kirby's design being used as a silly propaganda tool is not a true fan and doesn't get it.

Happy?

But it WAS used as a silly propaganda tool. Thats all Captain America comics were back during the war. My grandfather said his whole platoon read Cap comics to get their spirits up and feel good about what there were fighting for.

[Kurosawa]

But it WAS used as a silly propaganda tool. Thats all Captain America comics were back during the war. My grandfather said his whole platoon read Cap comics to get their spirits up and feel good about what there were fighting for.

My dad's platoon mostly used booze.

[TheVileOne]

But it WAS used as a silly propaganda tool. Thats all Captain America comics were back during the war. My grandfather said his whole platoon read Cap comics to get their spirits up and feel good about what there were fighting for.
There's nothing wrong with that. And that's not really silly.

[Kurosawa]

Something that really irks me: Cap is a fantasy/superhero comic, yet the movie adaptation is going to be more of a war movie, meanwhile the Sgt. Rock movie is going to be more a fantasy movie when it is a war comic. It seems like they just are determined to muck with any property they adapt.

[Rage]

MAN!! I finally got through the entire 15 pages on this that I missed over the weekend.

First I must state that I am a HUGE fan of John Byrne (who is GREATLY inspired by Jack Kirby) I was happier than a 12 peckered rabbit that the Kirby design was going to be in the movie (as a precursor to a more militaristic version) I was glad to hear that they would honor Kirby... while still making the uniform evolve into a more realistic and sturdy looking uniform.

THEY NEVER USED "SILLY" or "ASHAMED" when describing the costume in the article. The exact quote was 'You're going to be in this USO show' and they give him a flag suit. He can't wait to get out of it.".. HE CAN'T WAIT TO GET OUT OF... is not silly or ashamed.

"he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs." It sounds to me like they are using the same design, just making it out of sturdier materials and more practical. Kinda like putting some neck protection on him and pouches on his belt (which most seem to think is "Classic" 616 Cap's look... and it aint.

The only part that makes any mention of how "silly" the suit is... "his approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything."

I have NO PROBLEM with the director calling the pirate boots silly... because they ARE SILLY! It sounds to me like the design team and writers are trying to do thier best to get the ORIGINAL 616 costume in this movie as an homage...and NOT TO PISS ALL OVER JACK'S GRAVE. I don't get that vive AT ALL!!

The part that did bother me was when he talked about "Armor"... that bothered me.

I think we'll see a Cap costume designed like the kirby version and made like the costumes in the flashbacks in Watchmen. I see that as how they would interpret that costume in the 40s (realistically)

When Cap reworks the costume to be more practical after ACTUALLY going into battle with a COSTUME... he comes up with a suit made up of "sturdier" materials like denim and maybe "chainmail" or wool? Something closer to what we are used to seeing today and not a baby blue unitard ;P The muted colors could mean "darker" like the actual colors for Ole Glory and not Baby blue.

Everything that JJ said is up for interpretation, but if WE don't read it with an open mind, then we are more likely to jump to conclusions. There is evidence in that article to lead you to either the Ultimates WWII costume or the one that Epting and Cassidey are currently drawing.

While not a fan of Kurosawa's thinking in absolutes (like a sith)... he has a right to voice an opinion. I just think that his opinion is based on an emotional response to what was written in the article and he started putting words in JJ's mouth and those emotions skewed his perception of what was actually written. IMO

I am stocked from everything that I read about this movie. I wanted Cap to be thought of by the general public as a publicity stunt (and that sounds like it might be the way they are going) and that only soldiers who ACTUALLY saw him in combat knew what he really was... A SUPER SOLDIER and not Howdy doody or Uncle Sam (like the USO are attempting to make him) You also have to remember that the GA in the Marvel movieverse has no idea who Cap really is. They hint at him in TIH... but it seems like nobody really knew about him or they would be less in awe of IM and TIH because they've seen Super Heroes before (IMO)

I love that he hates the idea of the costume (because of it being a tool for propaganda and keeping him out of the war) And I LOVE that he learns that it is a powerful tool for inspiration (and not just propaganda)

I see 90% awesome in that article and only a couple things that peeked my curiousity. (armor being one... BUT COULD CHAINMAIL NOT BE CONSIDERED ARMOR?)

I have faith in Marvel and I think that they will do everything to make this both a comic fantasy and a realistic movie that fits in the Marvel "Movieverse"

[Rage]

P.S. Cap needs wings on his costume!! Pirate boots are another story :D

[Cuyan]

It seems like they just are determined to muck with any property they adapt.
Yes, I'm sure that's the intention.

[Kurosawa]

MAN!! I finally got through the entire 15 pages on this that I missed over the weekend.

First I must state that I am a HUGE fan of John Byrne (who is GREATLY inspired by Jack Kirby) I was happier than a 12 peckered rabbit that the Kirby design was going to be in the movie (as a precursor to a more militaristic version) I was glad to hear that they would honor Kirby... while still making the uniform evolve into a more realistic and sturdy looking uniform.

THEY NEVER USED "SILLY" or "ASHAMED" when describing the costume in the article. The exact quote was 'You're going to be in this USO show' and they give him a flag suit. He can't wait to get out of it.".. HE CAN'T WAIT TO GET OUT OF... is not silly or ashamed.

"he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs." It sounds to me like they are using the same design, just making it out of sturdier materials and more practical. Kinda like putting some neck protection on him and pouches on his belt (which most seem to think is "Classic" 616 Cap's look... and it aint.

The only part that makes any mention of how "silly" the suit is... "his approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything."

I have NO PROBLEM with the director calling the pirate boots silly... because they ARE SILLY! It sounds to me like the design team and writers are trying to do thier best to get the ORIGINAL 616 costume in this movie as an homage...and NOT TO PISS ALL OVER JACK'S GRAVE. I don't get that vive AT ALL!!

The part that did bother me was when he talked about "Armor"... that bothered me.

I think we'll see a Cap costume designed like the kirby version and made like the costumes in the flashbacks in Watchmen. I see that as how they would interpret that costume in the 40s (realistically)

When Cap reworks the costume to be more practical after ACTUALLY going into battle with a COSTUME... he comes up with a suit made up of "sturdier" materials like denim and maybe "chainmail" or wool? Something closer to what we are used to seeing today and not a baby blue unitard ;P The muted colors could mean "darker" like the actual colors for Ole Glory and not Baby blue.

Everything that JJ said is up for interpretation, but if WE don't read it with an open mind, then we are more likely to jump to conclusions. There is evidence in that article to lead you to either the Ultimates WWII costume or the one that Epting and Cassidey are currently drawing.

While not a fan of Kurosawa's thinking in absolutes (like a sith)... he has a right to voice an opinion. I just think that his opinion is based on an emotional response to what was written in the article and he started putting words in JJ's mouth and those emotions skewed his perception of what was actually written. IMO

I am stocked from everything that I read about this movie. I wanted Cap to be thought of by the general public as a publicity stunt (and that sounds like it might be the way they are going) and that only soldiers who ACTUALLY saw him in combat knew what he really was... A SUPER SOLDIER and not Howdy doody or Uncle Sam (like the USO are attempting to make him) You also have to remember that the GA in the Marvel movieverse has no idea who Cap really is. They hint at him in TIH... but it seems like nobody really knew about him or they would be less in awe of IM and TIH because they've seen Super Heroes before (IMO)

I love that he hates the idea of the costume (because of it being a tool for propaganda and keeping him out of the war) And I LOVE that he learns that it is a powerful tool for inspiration (and not just propaganda)

I see 90% awesome in that article and only a couple things that peeked my curiousity. (armor being one... BUT COULD CHAINMAIL NOT BE CONSIDERED ARMOR?)

I have faith in Marvel and I think that they will do everything to make this both a comic fantasy and a realistic movie that fits in the Marvel "Movieverse"

Completely disagree, but I am willing to wait until I actually see the costume to make a final judgment.

I do want to see a Kirby comic adapted with the LOTR degree of faithfulness one day, but this movie is not going to be it. I have no interest and in fact scorn for any sort of "realism" with comics related properties. I want a movie that is PROUD to be derived from that source material.

Hopefully one day a director who respects Kirby will make a film based on one of his characters. I don't think Marvel wants their movies to feel like Kirby's books in any way. They've only been screwing him over since the 60's. If Kirby is ever adapted with respect, it'll have to be New Gods.

Yes, I'm sure that's the intention.

Yeah, a Sgt Rock movie that has nothing to do with WWII is a brilliant idea.:whatever:

[weezerspider]

There's nothing wrong with that. And that's not really silly.

I 100% agree. I was just quoting him by saying "silly propaganda tool". Personally I think it was great.

[redlion2]

Something that really irks me: Cap is a fantasy/superhero comic, yet the movie adaptation is going to be more of a war movie, meanwhile the Sgt. Rock movie is going to be more a fantasy movie when it is a war comic. It seems like they just are determined to muck with any property they adapt.

What? Dude, why would that irk you? Cap's whole origin is because of the war. He volunteers for the super SOLDIER serum in the first place because he wanted to serve but was considered not fit because he was too skinny. He was a soldier first before he became the superhero. The real crime would be to separate or downplay Cap's involvement in WWII. Heck, his alter ego back then was pvt. Steve Rodgers and he purposely acted like a Gomer Pyle. He ain't Mr. America, he's Capt. America. There's no problem with a war movie and some of the fantastic worked into it.

Now I completely agree with you about the Sgt. Rock thing.

[JackIvyGB]

For anyone still wondering about the whole "straps" thing mentioned in Johnstons description of how Cap modifies the suit, a quick google of LBE straps (as mentioned by a poster who is in the army a few pages back) provided these. Seeing them now, it's pretty clear how they're gonna work the red and white stripes in if these are similar to the straps they meant.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq320/JackIvyGB/12235.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq320/JackIvyGB/16952.gif

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq320/JackIvyGB/CHESTLOADBARHAR-T.gif

The lower part would just have the vertical sections red and white alternating.

I think it's sketch time...

...and for the record, but in a non confrontational way, I am all for the appropriate amount of realism in a comic based film. If I want a comic or a moving comic, I'll watch a cartoon, read a comic, or watch a motion comic. For me, a live action movie is where I get to see the story and characters come to life, as if it happened in the real world. I want to see the "real" version, so to speak. That's just me though.

I am REALLY liking the thought process behind the Cap costume as we're hearing it. However, it sounds less like Steve mods the USO costume than it does he ditches that, runs off to join the front lines, sees a need for a symbol, and then develops a new costume based around actual combat duds, applying some visual cues from the USO suit, like colors, etc.

[Cuyan]

Completely disagree, but I am willing to wait until I actually see the costume to make a final judgment.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! :up:

[Artistsean]

Something that really irks me: Cap is a fantasy/superhero comic, yet the movie adaptation is going to be more of a war movie, meanwhile the Sgt. Rock movie is going to be more a fantasy movie when it is a war comic. It seems like they just are determined to muck with any property they adapt.
The older Cap comics, during WWII, like the very first original Cap comics were War Comics. I haven't really read them, but I have studied war comics, and seen pics from Cap Comics from then, and they were War comics that depicted the enemy as creepy monsters. Like Nazis with long fingers, claws, and fangs.
So maybe they are paying homage to those comics, plus Cap is sort of more grounded in reality. He doesn't fly, or have spider-powers. He is just a guy pushed to perfection for chemicals. Without the chemicals he is like Batman (in that he is a well trained fighting machine of a human).
So maybe that is why they are grounding it in reality.
I had no idea though they were making a Sgt. Rock movie. I was always under the impression that it was a real "Private Ryan" type realism in there.


Also, another thing to consider when they are making or redesigning the costumes of the comics characters,
What works on paper doesn't work in real life usually.
Cap's pirate boots may look cool and work well in the drawings, but in real life with an real person wearing those it might look silly.
But with the USO costume it does sound like we might get the wings on the mask as well as the pirate boots.

[ultimatefan]

What? Dude, why would that irk you? Cap's whole origin is because of the war. He volunteers for the super SOLDIER serum in the first place because he wanted to serve but was considered not fit because he was too skinny. He was a soldier first before he became the superhero. The real crime would be to separate or downplay Cap's involvement in WWII. Heck, his alter ego back then was pvt. Steve Rodgers and he purposely acted like a Gomer Pyle. He ain't Mr. America, he's Capt. America. There's no problem with a war movie and some of the fantastic worked into it.

Now I completely agree with you about the Sgt. Rock thing.

Exactly, people often seem to forget Cap didn´t start being unfrozen in modern times and joining the Avengers, he was created fighting WWII. And he´s one of the less fantastic superheroes, much more grounded than a Superman or a Spider-Man.

Not to mention making it as a war movie is a fresh approach on superhero movies, after so many it´s desperately needed. Johnston said it´s a mix of Raiders, Rocketeer and Saving Private Ryan, so the popcorn/fantasy element will be there as well

It´s funny I´m almost ten years here and people still come up with the same old tired argument of costumes not being comics-accurates. Every successful superhero movie has made adaptations on the costumes, there´s just a difference between what works as art, on the page, and what works in a live-action movie. Not all of these adaptations work, and the best ones preserve at least the more iconic aspects of the suits, but they´re necessary due to the difference of medias. The original comic book costumes were inspired by circus acrobats´ suits, and they were created for the visual simplicity of the cartoon shapes and primary colors. Practicality was usually a secondary matter. What looks like a second skin to a muscular body and is colorful in a primary colors world of the page becomes a pajama that looks flashy in a world of subtler and more nuanced colors in live-action.

[Blue Gun]

I've always like Good Ol' Cap.

http://yorksj.org/up/files/37/ca2too.jpg

[ultimatefan]

I've always like Good Ol' Cap.

http://yorksj.org/up/files/37/ca2too.jpg

Which is great on the page, as art, but for live-action needs some adjusting.

By the way, it´s a great speech, but the tree and river metaphor was kinda corny.

[chris moore]

Seems a little moot saying which one we like now we know the suit he wears most in the movie will be cobbled together and look ragtag/combatish.

And JackIvyGB? Nice find with the straps. But a harness like that is unlikely to be used as what Steve makes into the abdo stripes in a WW2 based movie; 'modern materials cos its a movie with a superserum' or not.

[Blue Gun]

Which is great on the page, as art, but for live-action needs some adjusting.

By the way, it´s a great speech, but the tree and river metaphor was kinda corny.

True about live-action adjusting. Hopefully, near the end of the film he doesn't look too different.

Didn't manage to read the speech, just liked the look of Cap on it.

[Art_of_Crime]

http://yorksj.org/up/files/37/ca2too.jpg
Why did they draw Spidey that low and close to his flagpole?

[Aesop Rocks]

he's on the ground maybe?

[Art_of_Crime]

that does not reduce the awkward factor

[marcvader]

I'm thinking the straps are associated with the mail over his shoulders and chest and down to his trousers.

[roach]

I've always like Good Ol' Cap.

http://yorksj.org/up/files/37/ca2too.jpg

this to me is the classic Cap costume...sure this is an artist interpretation of the Kirby suit...the suit he has worn since he went to the neck covering.

[NickNitro]

I havent read Cap comics (Besides Civil War...the only comic Ive read with him in it). And the only time Ive seen him in any other form was a VHS I got when I was about 6 with him going against Red Skull which was just a Comic Book with voices to it ha. Ive never been much of a Comic Book reader but have jumped on the train over the past couple of years. The movies have opened my eyes to a world I wasnt really aware of.

I love the way they are doing Cap and this is pretty much the first time I truly believe they are going to try and stay as true to the fans as much as possible. I cant wait to see Cap Thor and The Avengers.

I have to agree that with most of the super hero movies you have to adapt the character to real world situations at times. Its hard to take 100% of the material straight from whatever comic they are trying to adapt and put it on screen. There is an artistic licence given to the director (as bad as it may seem sometimes) but its there, and thats what they are getting paid to do. Not to Copy and Paste but to adapt the comic in their vision as well as the vision of the creators and fans.

EDIT: To ComicGeek the only "Awkard factor" being brought is the fact that you decided to point it out. Anyone who kneels or sits to someone whos standing is obviously going to be close to their midsection. Great way to show your maturity, tool.

[afan]

I'm thinking the straps are associated with the mail over his shoulders and chest and down to his trousers.

Unless Steve Rogers happens upon some medieval club's armory, any chain mail inclusion in his cobbled together uniform seems unlikely, sad to say.

[Art_of_Crime]

EDIT: To ComicGeek the only "Awkard factor" being brought is the fact that you decided to point it out. Anyone who kneels or sits to someone whos standing is obviously going to be close to their midsection. Great way to show your maturity, tool.

you are the one throwing names around.
I was just trying to bring a little levity to this thread.

[Khemik@L]

...
Not to mention making it as a war movie is a fresh approach on superhero movies, after so many it´s desperately needed. Johnston said it´s a mix of Raiders, Rocketeer and Saving Private Ryan, so the popcorn/fantasy element will be there as well
...

Guess in this case it may be Saving Private Bucky :woot:

[Immortalfire]

Captain America should look like...well, Captain America :cap:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/CaptainAmerica.jpg

[Art_of_Crime]

Captain America should look like...well, Captain America :cap:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/CaptainAmerica.jpg
the colors, the wings, the stripes and star are important to me, but I can live with the gloves and boots being modernized.

[afan]

Captain America should look like...well, Captain America :cap:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/CaptainAmerica.jpg


It seems obvious, doesn't it? Alas it seems not to be.

[Aesop Rocks]

that does not reduce the awkward factor

you're looking too hard into it.

[ultimatefan]

Like I said, this is art, guys, it doesn´t look that way on live-action, look at Matt Salinger in the nineties CA movie and tell me it looks as good as that drawing, it just doesn´t, it looks like a grown man wearing a Halloween costume.

http://www.comicbitsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/capmovie1.jpg

[Art_of_Crime]

Like I said, this is art, guys, it doesn´t look quite that way on the screen, look at Matt Salinger in the nineties CA movie and tell me it looks as good as that drawing, it just doesn´t, it looks like a grown man wearing a Halloween costume.

http://www.comicbitsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/capmovie1.jpg
that's what I have been saying. I think however the proof will be in the movie.

you're looking too hard into it.
for the love of god it was a joke. lighten up.

[Aesop Rocks]

No YOU. :oldrazz:

[Art_of_Crime]

consider me lightened

[Aesop Rocks]

consider me lightened

http://i45.tinypic.com/2a4ojfq.jpg

be cool

[RogueDK]

Captain America should look like...well, Captain America :cap:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/immortalfire/CaptainAmerica.jpg
Definetely. :word:

[afan]

Like I said, this is art, guys, it doesn´t look that way on live-action, look at Matt Salinger in the nineties CA movie and tell me it looks as good as that drawing, it just doesn´t, it looks like a grown man wearing a Halloween costume.

http://www.comicbitsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/capmovie1.jpg

...and Nicholas Hammond in the Spider-Man Tv series makes two instances..........
http://www.feiramoderna.net/img/blog/spiderman1978_02.jpg

.....in which we have proof positive that any attempt at a literal translation of the comic will look like a Halloween costume..........................oh wait are we ignoring this......

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/spiderman2-440x330.jpg

...just to make our point.

[Art_of_Crime]

permit me to use some examples.
http://xrayvision.today.com/files/2009/07/superman_returns.jpg
http://www.comicbookradioshow.com/trapped/superman2.gifhttp://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/91826-black_spider_man.jpg
http://arnoldcam.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/spiderman-black-costume.jpg
movies always take some liberties with costumes. Some good, some bad. Hopefully whatever happens here the costume and design departments will keep the spirit of Cap and make something that fits the film and the character.

[Compi716]

Like I said, this is art, guys, it doesn´t look that way on live-action, look at Matt Salinger in the nineties CA movie and tell me it looks as good as that drawing, it just doesn´t, it looks like a grown man wearing a Halloween costume.

http://www.comicbitsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/capmovie1.jpg
Okay, for the last time...

The costume above is clearly made from some kind of rubber or something. Now, go into Google images and search "Captain America." See those pictures? You'll notice that Cap's upper body is drawn as either chainmail or armored scales. NOT spandex, NOT rubber.

Therefore, the 1990 costume is NOT as accurate as claimed, and can NOT be used to properly show that a TRUE 616 costume would not work.

[ultimatefan]

...and Nicholas Hammond in the Spider-Man Tv series makes two instances..........
http://www.feiramoderna.net/img/blog/spiderman1978_02.jpg

.....in which we have proof positive that any attempt at a literal translation of the comic will look like a Halloween costume..........................oh wait are we ignoring this......

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/spiderman2-440x330.jpg

...just to make our point.

Exactly, you can find a way for it to look right on screen and still preserve the most iconic elements of the costume.

[Art_of_Crime]

Okay, for the lasttime...

The costume above is clearly made from some kind of rubber or something. Now, go into Google images and search "Captain America." See those pictures? You'll notice that Cap's upper body is drawn as either chainmail or armored scales. NOT spandex, NOT rubber.

Therefore, the 1990 costume is NOT as accurate as claimed, and can NOT be used to properly show that a TRUE 616 costume would not work.
the boots and gloves seem to be one of the major points of contention. The 90's costume features both the boots and the gloves, so some of the points stand

[marcvader]

Unless Steve Rogers happens upon some medieval club's armory, any chain mail inclusion in his cobbled together uniform seems unlikely, sad to say.
Why cobbled together. I'm thinking it's getting turned from a USO costume (straight Kirby, pirate boots and all) with no protection to one with. After having proved himself inthe field he gets sanctioned by the government and that's when he gets his circular shield, the mail, probably the combat boots and regular gloves. I really doubt he's cobbling anything together.

[ultimatefan]

Okay, for the lasttime...

The costume above is clearly made from some kind of rubber or something. Now, go into Google images and search "Captain America." See those pictures? You'll notice that Cap's upper body is drawn as either chainmail or armored scales. NOT spandex, NOT rubber.

Therefore, the 1990 costume is NOT as accurate as claimed, and can NOT be used to properly show that a TRUE 616 costume would not work.

Nobody is saying he should wear, say, black leather. There are iconic elements of the costume that´re important to preserve. But adjustements are still needed, they happened in some of the bad superhero movies yes, but also in the good ones.

Plus the chest area isn´t the only problem with the costume. As a whole it has the Halloween costume vibe.

[afan]

Why cobbled together. I'm thinking it's getting turned from a USO costume (straight Kirby, pirate boots and all) with no protection to one with. After having proved himself inthe field he gets sanctioned by the government and that's when he gets his circular shield, the mail, probably the combat boots and regular gloves. I really doubt he's cobbling anything together.

Johnston's words........

"but then later as the super-soldier hits the war zone he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs"

How else do we interpret this?

[afan]

Exactly, you can find a way for it to look right on screen and still preserve the most iconic elements of the costume.

So you agree that the classic outfit can be translated to live action with proper materials?

[marcvader]

Johnston's words........

"but then later as the super-soldier hits the war zone he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs"

How else do we interpret this?
I guess that's kind of dumb. Any kind of change should be an upgrade and I doubt he could do better than the Goverment or H.Stark if he's around.

[Aesop Rocks]

Johnston's words........

"but then later as the super-soldier hits the war zone he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs"

How else do we interpret this?

http://i50.tinypic.com/2hebotz.png

[roach]

So I am watching Inglorious Basterds today and not really paying attention to the uniforms(and I do realize that movies arent always accurate) but there are instances in the movie where someone is wearing the flared gloves(One of the german soldiers has them on when killing Shoshanna's family) and the so called pirate boots(Lt Raine's has them on when they are freeing Stiglitz..in fact his are flared way more than Cap's)

[Compi716]

It's probably just the WWII Ultimate suit with slight flares of 616 (like not having that brown mask, for example). However, it seems that Cap realizes how influential he is and, by the end, reverts back to something closer to his original uniform.

[roach]

well according to the director its the Kirby suit that he modifies...he doesnt mention the Ultimate suit

[Art_of_Crime]

with the exception of Ironman and The Phantom there have been almost no comic movies with what most people consider spot on costumes. Its a reality of film making.

[ultimatefan]

with the exception of Ironman and The Phantom there have been almost no comic movies with what most people consider spot on costumes. Its a reality of film making.

The Spider-Man costume is very close. The FF costumes, with all the movie´s problems, were close to recent FF comics suits, like the Ultimate ones.

The Iron Man armor can only be considered accurate if you compare it to the more recent comics, after Adi Granov started to draw him. If you compare it to the older "superhero costume with metallic glow" suits, it´d have been called "blasphemous.

[ultimatefan]

So you agree that the classic outfit can be translated to live action with proper materials?

With proper materials, colors, and some adjustements to make it more combat-practical, like the mask being more like a helmet - like in recent comics - or the belt having pouches to carry things he may need, also like in more recent comics. I´m for keeping the star, the stripes, the overall impression of the look, but it won´t be a literal Jack Kirby costume.

[roach]

Superman the movie
Hellboy
the Spirit
Spider-man
Sandman(from spiderman 3)
Hulk(really no way to mess this up)
Thing
Silver Surfer

[roach]

so how are they gonna explain the Red Skull???

[Aesop Rocks]

DareDevil was pretty accurate, imo

[marcvader]

so how are they gonna explain the Red Skull???
That's going to be interesting.

[afan]

Superman the movie
Hellboy
the Spirit
Spider-man
Sandman(from spiderman 3)
Hulk(really no way to mess this up)
Thing
Silver Surfer


Ghost Rider
DareDevil
Supergirl
Tho not specifically a "comic"... The Shadow.

[C. Lee]

Superman the movie
Hellboy
the Spirit
Spider-man
Sandman(from spiderman 3)
Hulk(really no way to mess this up)
Thing
Silver Surfer

If that is your list of comic based movies that got the suit right....I really have to disagree with THE SPIRIT (unless you are talking about the TV movie, because that got it right).

[ultimatefan]

Superman the movie
Hellboy
the Spirit
Spider-man
Sandman(from spiderman 3)
Hulk(really no way to mess this up)
Thing
Silver Surfer

- Superman The Movie was made in the late seventies, before a lot of the advances in fabrics, changes in fashion, etc. Even movies looked different than they do now.

- The Spirit doesn´t wear a costume, he wears a suit, only with a mask. And the suit was usually blue in comics, while in the movie it was black (Frank says it´s cuz of printing colors problems, that is, difference in media).

- Spider-Man is close, but had adjustements, like the raised webbing, the pointier shape of the lenses, the muscle suit underneath and the silk-screened body suit to avoid wrinkles and stuff.

- Sandman doesn´t wear a costume, a shirt with stripes, pants and shoes are regular clothes. His sand forms aren´t a costume, they´re FX.

- Hellboy, Hulk, Thing and Silver Surfer don´t wear costumes, they´re supernatural/superhuman creatures created by practical FX/CGI.

[roach]

so you are ruling out the Superman suit cause the movie was made in the 70's???
that seems unfair
You are ruling out the Spider-man suit because of how its made?????

[Turtles]

...and Nicholas Hammond in the Spider-Man Tv series makes two instances..........
http://www.feiramoderna.net/img/blog/spiderman1978_02.jpg

.....in which we have proof positive that any attempt at a literal translation of the comic will look like a Halloween costume..........................oh wait are we ignoring this......

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/spiderman2-440x330.jpg

...just to make our point.

Personally, I think Spider Man's movie costume is one of the worst examples you could provide as proof that Captain America's 616 costume can successfully be adapted to movies without majors changes being made. Why? Because the costumes are vastly different.

Does Spider Man's costume have head wings? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have scale mail? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have pirate boots? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have gloves with big, flared openings? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have outer-underwear? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have openings for his ears stick out of? No.

Spider Man's costume is simply a red and blue bodysuit. Is Captain America's costume simply a red, white, and blue bodysuit? No. There are added elements to Captain America's costume that make it harder to adapt to live action than Spider Man's costume (or the Fantastic Four's costume, or Daredevil's costume, or Super Man's costume).

Even on paper Captain America's costume is hit or miss in the looks department (Sometimes it looks like he's got fish scales!), so I find it hard to believe that every aspect of it can be adapted, as is, to the big screen without problems.

[ultimatefan]

so you are ruling out the Superman suit cause the movie was made in the 70's???
that seems unfair
You are ruling out the Spider-man suit because of how its made?????

It´s not unfair, the making of suits, fashion, even cinematography in general had big changes since the 1970s. If they made the movie with current technology, even to tell the same story, it´d have looked different, you can bet on it.

I`m not rullingthe Spidey suit out, I´m saying it needed adaptations to work on live-action, so does CA.

[marcvader]

I'm satisfied I'm getting probably close to 100% Kirby for atleast a good portion of the movie and it will make sense which is key for me. The changes we'll get when they do come will probably be reasonable.

[roach]

Personally, I think Spider Man's movie costume is one of the worst examples you could provide as proof that Captain America's 616 costume can successfully be adapted to movies without majors changes being made. Why? Because the costumes are vastly different.

Does Spider Man's costume have head wings? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have scale mail? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have pirate boots? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have gloves with big, flared openings? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have outer-underwear? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have openings for his ears stick out of? No.

Spider Man's costume is simply a red and blue bodysuit. Is Captain America's costume simply a red, white, and blue bodysuit? No. There are added elements to Captain America's costume that make it harder to adapt to live action than Spider Man's costume (or the Fantastic Four's costume, or Daredevil's costume, or Super Man's costume).

Even on paper Captain America's costume is hit or miss in the looks department (Sometimes it looks like he's got fish scales!), so I find it hard to believe that every aspect of it can be adapted, as is, to the big screen without problems.

the point is they were using a crappy costume (80's Cap) as an excuse that the 616 costume cant work.....its like saying the crappy 70's spider-man costume is an excuse that a 616 Spider-man movie costume cant work

[ultimatefan]

Personally, I think Spider Man's movie costume is one of the worst examples you could provide as proof that Captain America's 616 costume can successfully be adapted to movies without majors changes being made. Why? Because the costumes are vastly different.

Does Spider Man's costume have head wings? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have scale mail? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have pirate boots? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have gloves with big, flared openings? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have outer-underwear? No.
Does Spider Man's costume have openings for his ears stick out of? No.

Spider Man's costume is simply a red and blue bodysuit. Is Captain America's costume simply a red, white, and blue bodysuit? No. There are added elements to Captain America's costume that make it harder to adapt to live action than Spider Man's costume (or the Fantastic Four's costume, or Daredevil's costume, or Super Man's costume).

Even on paper Captain America's costume is hit or miss in the looks department (Sometimes it looks like he's got fish scales!), so I find it hard to believe that every aspect of it can be adapted, as is, to the big screen without problems.

Well, the comics Spidey suit still is a spandex colorful superhero costume, it needed some adaptations. But hey, CA doesn´t wear a cape, or underwear that looks a different color from the bodysuit, etc.

It has difficulties, no question about it, but there´re iconic elements to it as well, such as the flag look, with the star and stripes, that need to be kept. What you need is to make it practical, like a combat suit, like the Batman costume was made into a combat suit, but it still has the cape, the cowl, the ears, the pointy gloves, the utility belt.

[ultimatefan]

the point is they were using a crappy costume (80's Cap) as an excuse that the 616 costume cant work.....its like saying the crappy 70's spider-man costume is an excuse that a 616 Spider-man movie costume cant work

The more recent Cap costume, with the helmet-like mask, the pouchy belt, the darker blue, no visible underpants, more raised chest protection, is indeed an improvement over older suits, but it still may need some adaptation.

[roach]

It´s not unfair, the making of suits, fashion, even cinematography in general had big changes since the 1970s. If they made the movie with current technology, even to tell the same story, it´d have looked different, you can bet on it.

I`m not rullingthe Spidey suit out, I´m saying it needed adaptations to work on live-action, so does CA.

yet when the updated the suit in SR everyone hated it

I am not against updating the suit as long as it maintains the motifs of Captain America....as long as it is faitful to the original concept. Yes they updated the Spider-man costume(there are no under arm webs) but they maintained the motif of Spider-man

[roach]

The more recent Cap costume, with the helmet-like mask, the pouchy belt, the darker blue, is indeed an improvement over older suits, but it still may need some adaptation.

the one from CA Reborn???

[Turtles]

the point is they were using a crappy costume (80's Cap) as an excuse that the 616 costume cant work.....its like saying the crappy 70's spider-man costume is an excuse that a 616 Spider-man movie costume cant work

I know. But my point still stands. Many people look at the near-perfect movie adaptations of simple costumes, and automatically assume that that means it is just as easy to get near-perfect movie adaptions of the more outlandish costumes, too.

[Aesop Rocks]

Guys,

http://i45.tinypic.com/2a4ojfq.jpg

Chill out.

Really though, all this discussion is, is just a re-hashed version of the Kirby 616/USO argument.

[roach]

I know. But my point still stands. Many people look at the near-perfect movie adaptations of simple costumes, and automatically assume that that means it is just as easy to get near-perfect movie adaptions of the more outlandish costumes, too.

and yet you look at crappy costumes from nearly 20 years ago as proof that it cant be done

[ultimatefan]

yet when the updated the suit in SR everyone hated it

I am not against updating the suit as long as it maintains the motifs of Captain America....as long as it is faitful to the original concept. Yes they updated the Spider-man costume(there are no under arm webs) but they maintained the motif of Spider-man

Like I said, the updates are not always successful, but they´re necessary. And not everyone hated the SR suit BTW.

[roach]

Guys,

http://i45.tinypic.com/2a4ojfq.jpg

Chill out.

Really though, all this discussion is, is just a re-hashed version of the Kirby 616/USO argument.

i was with you until you showed me that crappy costume

[Aesop Rocks]

i was with you until you showed me that crappy costume

doesn't get the joke.jpeg

[roach]

sorry but you made me relive the horror that was Batman and Robin...my sense of humor went into remission

[Aesop Rocks]

Just as planned

[ultimatefan]

and yet you look at crappy costumes from nearly 20 years ago as proof that it cant be done

The 70´s Spider-Man costume isn´t radically different in design from the ones that came right before the movies.

[ultimatefan]

the one from CA Reborn???


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/mkarmageddon88/My%20Favorites/Captain_America.jpg
It has more practical elements, is less comic booky, and yet still looks like CA. I´m not saying it´s supposed to look exactly like that in the movie, but it points in that direction.

[afan]

^Interesting I see that as a literal translation.
Course we don't see the boots in that illustration but everyting else is right off the comic pages.
Still don't get what he would carry in those pouches? Nylons? Chocolate? Cigarettes?

[Turtles]

and yet you look at crappy costumes from nearly 20 years ago as proof that it cant be done

No, I see them as proof that the costumes have to be done better. Nothing more.

Well, the comics Spidey suit still is a spandex colorful superhero costume, it needed some adaptations. But hey, CA doesn´t wear a cape, or underwear that looks a different color from the bodysuit, etc.

It has difficulties, no question about it, but there´re iconic elements to it as well, such as the flag look, with the star and stripes, that need to be kept. What you need is to make it practical, like a combat suit, like the Batman costume was made into a combat suit, but it still has the cape, the cowl, the ears, the pointy gloves, the utility belt.

He could have. :dry:

http://pics.livejournal.com/kijikun/pic/0004e2dk

[Art_of_Crime]

The Spider-Man costume is very close. The FF costumes, with all the movie´s problems, were close to recent FF comics suits, like the Ultimate ones.

The Iron Man armor can only be considered accurate if you compare it to the more recent comics, after Adi Granov started to draw him. If you compare it to the older "superhero costume with metallic glow" suits, it´d have been called "blasphemous.
you mean the oddly functional metal spandex?
http://www.marveldirectory.com/pictures/individuals/i_1d/ironman.jpg

[roach]

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/mkarmageddon88/My%20Favorites/Captain_America.jpg
It has more practical elements, is less comic booky, and yet still looks like CA. I´m not saying it´s supposed to look exactly like that in the movie, but it points in that direction.

if this is what you want for Cap then we have been friendly firing on each other cause thats what I want too

[Art_of_Crime]

^Interesting I see that as a literal translation.
Course we don't see the boots in that illustration but everyting else is right off the comic pages.
Still don't get what he would carry in those pouches? Nylons? Chocolate? Cigarettes?

i wonder that too sometimes, I like the look of them though. Maybe he keeps his wallet and keys in one, his cell phone in another and his ipod in the last one? I'm glad he does not have his canteen though. That just looks to bulky and odd.

[Aesop Rocks]

But hey, CA doesn´t wear a cape, or underwear that looks a different color from the bodysuit, etc.


http://i50.tinypic.com/10seicg.jpg

[ultimatefan]

if this is what you want for Cap then we have been friendly firing on each other cause thats what I want too

See, sometimes positions on these boards sound a lot more polar than they really are.

[Agent 194]

if this is what you want for Cap then we have been friendly firing on each other cause thats what I want too

And that I could live with. Except I'd love the chain mail arnour to look more like the book. More ambiguous and not really that pronounced.

[JackIvyGB]

And JackIvyGB? Nice find with the straps. But a harness like that is unlikely to be used as what Steve makes into the abdo stripes in a WW2 based movie; 'modern materials cos its a movie with a superserum' or not.

Oh, I know. That's why I said

Seeing them now, it's pretty clear how they're gonna work the red and white stripes in if these are similar to the straps they meant.


I knew they were modern. I was just making a guess that there may have been similar ones back then or something.

[roach]

See, sometimes positions on these boards sound a lot more polar than they really are.

curse my america school system learned reading comprehension

[Chris Wallace]

http://i50.tinypic.com/10seicg.jpg

MUST you brign up Cap's fashion missteps?

[Kurosawa]

What? Dude, why would that irk you? Cap's whole origin is because of the war. He volunteers for the super SOLDIER serum in the first place because he wanted to serve but was considered not fit because he was too skinny. He was a soldier first before he became the superhero. The real crime would be to separate or downplay Cap's involvement in WWII. Heck, his alter ego back then was pvt. Steve Rodgers and he purposely acted like a Gomer Pyle. He ain't Mr. America, he's Capt. America. There's no problem with a war movie and some of the fantastic worked into it.

Now I completely agree with you about the Sgt. Rock thing.

Golden Age Cap comics were heavily fantasized comics with the war in it. They had no resemblance to the actual war or anything in reality period.

The older Cap comics, during WWII, like the very first original Cap comics were War Comics. I haven't really read them, but I have studied war comics, and seen pics from Cap Comics from then, and they were War comics that depicted the enemy as creepy monsters. Like Nazis with long fingers, claws, and fangs.
So maybe they are paying homage to those comics, plus Cap is sort of more grounded in reality. He doesn't fly, or have spider-powers. He is just a guy pushed to perfection for chemicals. Without the chemicals he is like Batman (in that he is a well trained fighting machine of a human).
So maybe that is why they are grounding it in reality.
I had no idea though they were making a Sgt. Rock movie. I was always under the impression that it was a real "Private Ryan" type realism in there.


Also, another thing to consider when they are making or redesigning the costumes of the comics characters,
What works on paper doesn't work in real life usually.
Cap's pirate boots may look cool and work well in the drawings, but in real life with an real person wearing those it might look silly.
But with the USO costume it does sound like we might get the wings on the mask as well as the pirate boots.

I've read my share of Golden Age Cap comics and stories since then sat in WWII. The most recent series is the closest to realism, although Cap is still in his true costume and is still larger than life.

It seems obvious, doesn't it? Alas it seems not to be.

They are looking to marginalize any connections to Kirby with their movies. They don't want to sell Jack Kirby, they want to sell Marvel because they have that under cost control.

So I am watching Inglorious Basterds today and not really paying attention to the uniforms(and I do realize that movies arent always accurate) but there are instances in the movie where someone is wearing the flared gloves(One of the german soldiers has them on when killing Shoshanna's family) and the so called pirate boots(Lt Raine's has them on when they are freeing Stiglitz..in fact his are flared way more than Cap's)

Inglorious Basterds is much closer to what a Cap movie should be than anything they will make.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/mkarmageddon88/My%20Favorites/Captain_America.jpg
It has more practical elements, is less comic booky, and yet still looks like CA. I´m not saying it´s supposed to look exactly like that in the movie, but it points in that direction.

That IS the Kirby costume. I doubt they'll do anything that close. Marvel is, IMO, looking to eliminate Kirby.

[Deaths Head II]

That IS the Kirby costume. We won't get anything that close. Marvel is looking to eliminate Kirby.

That must be why they use that costume all the time in the comics.

[marcvader]

Dude we're getting straight Kirby.

[Kurosawa]

That must be why they use that costume all the time in the comics.

They've marginalized Kirby's designs and style in their comics as much as they can and still maintain a certain amount of continuity. They can't get away from it completely, of course, but they want and need to be far enough away from it so they can defend their properties as solely theirs in court. They've been doing this for years now.

[Kurosawa]

Dude we're getting straight Kirby.

I don't think so. It'll be similar to the Ultimate Cap if it's even that close. But I will admit that I overreacted somewhat. That language that Cap "can't wait to get out of it" (referring to the Kirby costume) seriously pissed me off. What was he thinking, seriously?

[marcvader]

Well I',m thinking he'll be in Kirby for the USO parts and the AWOL parts. That's pretty much what JJ has inferred. Now the rest I don't know what we're getting hopefully it will be more 616 and less ultimate.

[Kurosawa]

Well I',m thinking he'll be in Kirby for the USO parts and the AWOL parts. That's pretty much what JJ has inferred. Now the rest I don't know what we're getting hopefully it will be more 616 and less ultimate.

Yeah, my issue is I do not want the visual image of the Kirby costume being depicted as lame. And that is what it comes off as, at least to me it does.

I generally distrust Hollywood with comics properties, so that shapes my judgments.

[marcvader]

Well dude try to stay positive. Marvel studios has done good so far and Im sure they're going to treat Cap and whatever he looks like with taste. He is one of the crown jewels of comics and their not going to make him look like some bafoon on stage. Im sure Steve will be proud to wear the Kirby outfit once he knows its meaning. Any changes will be done out of practicality and not embarassment.

[SpiderByte]

Besides, Cap is to Marvel what Superman is to DC. They know something this big can be screwed up, so they'll go the extra mile with Cap.

[Aesop Rocks]

That must be why they use that costume all the time in the comics.

:awesome:

[roach]

Twenty four hours without...erm...well, without TOTAL war.

my minions are on stand by

[roach]

or maybe the wind was taken out of our sails when Nolan was announced as taking over the Superman franchise

[SpiderByte]

...
Say WHAT?!

[roach]

Nolan is taking over the reboot of Superman

[Cuyan]

As an "adviser".

[SpiderByte]

And now there will be no more bastard children of Superman.
And the world will be at peace.

[roach]

I honestly didnt hate SR

[SpiderByte]

Me neither. I didn't like the obvious overuse of KRYPTONITE though.

Seriously, if your going to use Kryptonite, it better as hell be strapped to a certain robot-humanoid who we all know.

[Agent 194]

That IS the Kirby costume. I doubt they'll do anything that close. Marvel is, IMO, looking to eliminate Kirby.

If that's true, and I'll buy into your conspiratorial theory - because that's partially who I am,... if that's true....then that's truly sad.

[Deaths Head II]

I honestly didnt hate SR

I actually liked SR until I watched the first Superman movie and realized SR was basically a remake.

[Chris Wallace]

See, I didn't like ANYTHING about it. At all. Not one thing.

[Kurosawa]

See, I didn't like ANYTHING about it. At all. Not one thing.

I think they had decent intentions, but Hollywood-and a lot of people in the comics field as well-need to remember that Siegel and Shuster, not Richard Donner, created Superman. They need to go back to the basics of Superman to find what makes him click with people.

[Young Superman]

I think they had decent intentions, but Hollywood-and a lot of people in the comics field as well-need to remember that Siegel and Shuster, not Richard Donner, created Superman. They need to go back to the basics of Superman to find what makes him click with people. Agreed

[Artistsean]

Here is what I am thinking.
Cap is in the classic Kirby costume in the USO show, as a tribute, and then when he redesigns his suit to be more battle ready (with straps for the red stripes as mentioned and possibly there to hold onto the body armor chain mail)
We will still get the goofy stuff that some people don't think will translate
like the pirate boots and the wings on his mask.
Because the USO show will have already established why he has those things
and when he redesigns it his costume still has to look somewhat similar to the USO show costume, since the soldiers already know him in that costume.

So I think we will get a much more classic Cap costume, and maybe with some Ultimate influence.

[Mr. Earle]

I think they had decent intentions, but Hollywood-and a lot of people in the comics field as well-need to remember that Siegel and Shuster, not Richard Donner, created Superman. They need to go back to the basics of Superman to find what makes him click with people.Somebody e-mail this to DC. Good job sir!!!

[luca_frontino]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Are they thinking about using this?

http://i.newsarama.com/preview_images/marvelnew/oct08/sqdsupv2004_cvr_col.jpg

[Cuyan]

Doubtful

[Gamma Goliath]

I hope not

[ultimatefan]

I´m guessing it will be closer to the Ultimates WWII Cap. Maybe at the end we will see him with a modern costume.

[Art_of_Crime]

Its to bad you got the impression that Cap was dieing to get out of his Kirby suit because he thought it was lame. I took it mean that he was a solider and he wanted to be part of the fight, not standing on a stage. He wanted to be in something that protected him, and was practical for battlefield conditions. IE, not intensely bright colors to make him a human target.
Later after the war he might adopt more of a living symbol attitude again.
That was just my thought.

[RogueDK]

I think they had decent intentions, but Hollywood-and a lot of people in the comics field as well-need to remember that Siegel and Shuster, not Richard Donner, created Superman. They need to go back to the basics of Superman to find what makes him click with people.
F***ing bingo.:word:

[ultimatefan]

I think they had decent intentions, but Hollywood-and a lot of people in the comics field as well-need to remember that Siegel and Shuster, not Richard Donner, created Superman. They need to go back to the basics of Superman to find what makes him click with people.

The Superman mythos is the fruit of many generations of creators, Siegel and Schuster brought him to life, but several other contributions helped to make him iconic. Donner isn´t the only important one, that´s for sure, but he was among the most significant ones.

Ironically, right now Siegel and Schuster are a big part of the reason why WB is desperate to get a new Supes movie out, due to their legal dispute over the rights. But it got Chris Nolan to mentor the reboot, so maybe that´s not so bad.

[SpiderByte]

No more bastard kids for Superman!

[Art_of_Crime]

No more bastard kids for Superman!

agreed.
Might I add, no more manic car salesmen Luthors either.

[Artistsean]

No more bastard kids for Superman!
I agree that was such a horrible idea, and an idea you can't just write away either.
But without the son idea, whats new with Superman in that movie?
Why tell this story? There was nothing new besides the son.
So without the son idea its just another plain old superman story.

True they could have thought up something better. But back to the topic at hand.
Cap's costume.
I still think the USO show's costume will lead into Cap having the head wings and the pirate boots in his later costume, why? because it was established with the USO show costume and the troops already recognize him now. You can't have him look like Kirby's classic design and then change it to the Ultimate WWII Cap (or even the moden Ultimate Cap).
I think he will look like the regular Captain America costume, with elements of the Ultimate costumes.

[Deaths Head II]

I agree that was such a horrible idea, and an idea you can't just write away either.
But without the son idea, whats new with Superman in that movie?
Why tell this story? There was nothing new besides the son.
So without the son idea its just another plain old superman story.

That's the main reason I stopped liking the film. I originally thought it was a pretty good film with deadbeat dad Stalkerman that abandons Earth at a whim being a major fault. Then I realized it was basically an inferior remake and deadbeat dad Stalkerman that abandons Earth at a whim was the only new thing that was added.

[C. Lee]

Captain America costume thread.

[afan]

I swear, if someone started a thread to discuss Florence Nightingale eventually it would get around to Superman Returns.

[Artistsean]

Can someone do a photoshopped pic of the classic Cap costume with ultimate elements to it?

[Artistsean]

Can someone do a photoshopped pic of the classic Cap costume with ultimate elements to it?

[Chris Wallace]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Are they thinking about using this?

http://i.newsarama.com/preview_images/marvelnew/oct08/sqdsupv2004_cvr_col.jpg

:wall::down:barf::doh:

[Kurosawa]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Are they thinking about using this?

http://i.newsarama.com/preview_images/marvelnew/oct08/sqdsupv2004_cvr_col.jpg

If they did something that drastic, they could kiss any fan support good-bye.

[Rage]

I took the comment about him wanting out of the suit to mean that he wanted out of the USO and into battle...not that he hated the suit...but he hated what it represented to him...which wasn't America, but instead the stupidity of him entertaining troops instead of leading them!

[Artistsean]

I think that isn't Captain America. Isn't that someone from Squadron Supreme?


- I took it as Steve Rogers enlists to fight in the war.
- He is too skinny and sickly.
- So he enlists in an experimental test, anything to help the war effort.
- He becomes the first Super Soldier.
- Doctor is killed, Steve becomes the only Super Soldier.
- Government is affraid of loosing him in battle so he is put in a USO show. So he can help the troops in a
way.
- So does everything he can to enlist and help in the war and instead he is put in a bright costume on
stage.

So he is angered and frustraited at his situation and not necissarily the costume. Sure the costume is part of the USO show he is forced into and at this moment, the suit is still made to inspire the troops in the at the USO show. But he isn't upset at the suit and its not made to look stupid. I think the its meant to inspire the same level of hope that Cap does when he eventually goes into combat.

[ultimatefan]

It scares me how much people still assume Cap hates the suit. I thought Johnston had made it clear that it was the whole performing instead of fighting thing.

[Deaths Head II]

It scares me how much people still assume Cap hates the suit. I thought Johnston had made it clear that it was the whole performing instead of fighting thing.

This is probably why most directors are usually less open with info then Johnston has been so far. Say the wrong thing and the fanboys will whipping out their pitchforks.

[Aesop Rocks]

****ing Hype lag.

[Aesop Rocks]

But anything could be the wrong thing, you know?

"Captain America takes a wrong turn down an alley way..."

"OMG!!! I BET THEY'RE JUST DOING THAT SO THEY CAN RUIN THE CLASSIC SUIT FOR A POOR EXCUSE TO MAKE A NEW, MORE REALISTIC SUIT!!!!!!!!!1!!1".

[Deaths Head II]

But anything could be the wrong thing, you know?

"Captain America takes a wrong turn down an alley way..."

"OMG!!! I BET THEY'RE JUST DOING THAT SO THEY CAN RUIN THE CLASSIC SUIT FOR A POOR EXCUSE TO MAKE A NEW, MORE REALISTIC SUIT!!!!!!!!!1!!1".

Pretty much. :o

[Webhead2006]

yea i doubt the suit would look like anything in that supreme cover. Also looking at this ww2 solider uniform picture i found on google i could see how the whole when cap leaves the uso thing to go into combact how he could design a different look:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iuVHEsE9ilA/SZkga61ngRI/AAAAAAAAABo/Bg7TUBpEn9g/s320/Military+Uniform.jpg

[roach]

that looks like a WW1 uniform

[roach]

double post

[Webhead2006]

oh place i got it from said it was ww2.

[sabetoonth]

no, the supreme cover looks ww1

[hame4479]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii289/SpiderByte_photo/Ultimate_Captain_America_by_Madurei.jpg


Perfect, absolutely perfect, well once u add wings that is. It does away with those ridiculous gloves and cheesy pirate boots, i really hope they do this as i assume they will.

[Cuyan]

Wait, the gloves and boots are ridiculous and cheesy, but little wings coming off the sides of his head aren't? :huh:

[Jordacar]

Wait, the gloves and boots are ridiculous and cheesy, but little wings coming off the sides of his head aren't? :huh:It could be said that the gloves and boots don't symbolize anything, so they're more flexible.

[Cuyan]

It could also be said that little wings coming off a blue skull cap look ridiculous.

[Cuyan]

Huzzah, lag!

[Kurosawa]

It could also be said that little wings coming off a blue skull cap look ridiculous.

None of it looks ridiculous.

[Cuyan]

Opinions remember? We talked about this.

[Kurosawa]

Opinions remember? We talked about this.

None of it looks ridiculous. In my opinion if you insist on watering it down.

[Cuyan]

In my opinion the fancy shoes and winged cranium are more akin to Hermes than a Super Soldier.

[Agent 194]

Hey Kurosawa,

I'm with you. I still don't get why his original costume is wrong in some people's eyes....boots, wings and all. I don't remember anyone fussing about Superman's costume, or any talk of deviating from it, when it was in development back in the late 70's (yeah, I talked about another hero in this thread - sue me. Sometimes you have to reference other things to make a point. It doesn't mean you're derailing the subject at hand. It's called discussion) And my discussion is I like the original. After all Cap is from that era...he was kind of Marvel's (Timely's) answer to Superman. A classic is a classic.

[roach]

It could be said that the gloves and boots don't symbolize anything, so they're more flexible.

the boots and gloves were the style of the day....go watch Inglorious Basterds....both boots and gloves are worn in the film

[NoirMan82]

Hey Kurosawa,

I'm with you. I still don't get why his original costume is wrong in some people's eyes....boots, wings and all. I don't remember anyone fussing about Superman's costume, or any talk of deviating from it, when it was in development back in the late 70's (yeah, I talked about another hero in this thread - sue me. Sometimes you have to reference other things to make a point. It doesn't mean you're derailing the subject at hand. It's called discussion) And my discussion is I like the original. After all Cap is from that era...he was kind of Marvel's (Timely's) answer to Superman. A classic is a classic.

But Superman's costume has had little update through the years to stay more current. It's just that the overall THEME didn't change. I think Cap, for a movie at least, should stay away from designs that would get a WTF response from the general audience. Little wings on his head and pirate boots would likely do that. Plus, those elements are easily subtracted, and the overall classic look is still maintained.

[afan]

But Superman's costume has had little update through the years to stay more current. It's just that the overall THEME didn't change. I think Cap, for a movie at least, should stay away from designs that would get a WTF response from the general audience. Little wings on his head and pirate boots would likely do that. Plus, those elements are easily subtracted, and the overall classic look is still maintained.

Really......
Did the costumes for 300, or rather the lack of costumes, get a WTF from the GA? Surely the description of the costumes, helmets with giant brushes, large flowing red capes, large armored boots, leather jockeys and not much else, sounds just as dauntingly silly as; wings on a cowl, gauntlet gloves and, roll down boots, and yet the GA fully accepted the costumes on film.

[Chris Wallace]

I don't think the gloves, boots, etc. would get ANY reaction from the GA, to be honest. They don't get hung up on things like that. Just like I seriously doubt any of them would say anything about a guy wearing a colorful costume in a war zone.

[Deaths Head II]

I think with the film's origin for the costume they can really keep most if not all of the elements from the original suit, just with different fabrics/material.

[RogueDK]

I don't think the gloves, boots, etc. would get ANY reaction from the GA, to be honest. They don't get hung up on things like that. Just like I seriously doubt any of them would say anything about a guy wearing a colorful costume in a war zone.
It's interesting that supporters of a more "plausible" Cap seem to underestimate the GA. I think that the masses can discern Saving Private Ryan frrom Captain America which is merely a comic book character -fantasy. His look in this particular genre should go without saying; audiences are well aware or should be of this upon going in.

I still think a well thought out 616 design (wings, boots & gloves) can work within the duration of this film and look badass at the same time.

[Agent 194]

I guess the wings and the cuffed boots (I still can't understand why that's such a big thing to some) aren't that big a deal but I point out the fat guy in a suit with a gun who played him in the old Republic Serials sans both of those things. He could have used something to make him more believable. Those two things wouldn't have hurt. See what I mean here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d4brA6vPY4

With today's talents involved I think it could be done. I quote a line I read in a John Byrne interview once. "The studios always say it can't be done (the comicbook costume)...Have they really tried?"

[Webhead2006]

yea they will probably find a way to do the classic look for the whole uso look. Then make something with the less flaired out gloves/boots with maybe the wings on cowl/helmet/mask thing for is battle costume. I am sure they will make some good costumes. So far the looks for marvel studios guys have been good.

[Young Superman]

I think either of these could be Cap's battlefield uniform:
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/norrinradd85/UltimateWW2Cap2.jpg?t=1265920737 (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);)http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/4029562695_932292fb80.jpg

[Jaspertian1105]

Burbanker said in a recent interview that the desings from captain reborn were being used as an inspiration for the movie, so i think cap is going to look similar to how it is drawn in captain reborn

[Blackman]

link?

[captaintass]

Cap with a helmet looks stupid.

"But..but...realism! *whine* *whine*"

It's a comic book movie, ok? Cap had the mask with the wings for almost his entire comic run. That IS Captain America. That's what makes him such a badass...he doesn't NEED a helmet!

A 98 pound weakling can get turned into the pinnacle of human perfection overnight, sure. He has an absolutely indestructible shield...obviously. He can survive being frozen in ice for 60+ years. Of course! But gosh-darn it, he needs a helmet...otherwise it's just too unbelievable!

Give me a break.

If Marvel is so hellbent on plausible realism, Iron Man's suit is COMPLETELY impossible as is The Hulk. Don't feed us those characters and then expect us to accept that Cap needs a helmet to survive.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually, IM's suit isn't completely impossible.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Sweet little DP.

[captaintass]

Actually, IM's suit isn't completely impossible.

Umm, yes, it is. There is no fuel source capable of providing the amount of thrust for the length of time he flies in it. Where does he keep his propellant? In his shins??? Plus, his freaking feet would be charred lumps of putrescent flesh after one flight.

[LouFerignoDemon]

I said it isn't completely impossible.

All known fuel sources and power sources, plus methods of insulation and heat dispersion haven't been invented yet. Most are still in production and development.

Then again, I assume you're an expert on mechanical and energetic physics?

[captaintass]

It has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with energy. We know how to achieve thrust and propulsion using personal jet packs, and a person can indeed fly from home to their place of employment like Buck Rogers or Adam Strange (provided they live 30 seconds from work). The problem is that lifting a full-grown person 100 feet into the air considerably increases their potential energy, and that gain in energy must come from the stored chemical energy in the jet pack. Ditto for the energy required to zip around once airborne. You just can't store enough energy to make long flights without making the suit too big to wear. The idea that Stark could store enough energy in his suit to fly for more than half a minute is impossible.

[LouFerignoDemon]

Aside from the idea most of his armors contain buldged areas along his armor which have been known to store many a compound, you're also stating since his armor can't work, the concept doesn't.

Also, energy and technology have everything to do with it. It's not like there's ever been recorded slow burning solid state fuels which don't take up tons of space like their liquid or slush state counterparts, or the fact that a few public military aircraft can hide/distribute their own heat with far more greater capacity than their poorer cousins.

But then again, energy is constant over all known uses of compounds and technology. It's not like gasoline burns differently from hydrogen or any known designer fuel. Right?

[captaintass]

To fly for as long as he does and as fast as he does there is not enough space in his armor to house all of the required solid state fuels.

But all this stuff aside, if we can believe that a man is enough of a genius to make that suit work then we can also believe that a man with the best reflexes and senses a human can possibly possess could conceivably dispense with a clunky, ugly helmet.

:yay:

[LouFerignoDemon]

There's actually a few solid state fuels in developmental stages which could reasonably burn for extremely long periods of time in extremely small spaces. Like you said, the suit would have to be bulkier depending on use, but not massively Iron Monger so. Trans-continental flights would most likely be impossible. I can see where you're coming from on this. lol

However, the Iron Man armor sorta protects in several ways. Captain America is pretty much just flesh with a shield. =l

Super steroids? Sure. Extremely durable, near invulnerable metals? We can buy that. An unprotected head (the skull isn't our most durable bone) are gigantic openings for falling debris which is undoubtedly what he'll incur in several battle situations. Unlike Iron Man, who's entirely clad by his specialty, and Hulk, who's very powers make him extremely resilient to most forms of harm, and quick regenerative ability, Captain America's only real toughness is on a durable human level. He's still highly vulnerable to most of the things you and I are, and definitely what his fellow soldiers are.

Most people aren't upset with the powers and their origins, but how they're portrayed. Iron Man wears armor with great defense and weaponry, so we don't understand when he gets taken down by a normal human by hand with a human. Hulk is the strongest being (possibly) on Earth, with extremely durable skin exceeding the limitations of a human, and a strong regenerative factor, so we wouldn't really get it if bullets killed him. Captain America is a human, albeit a perfect one, but a human nonetheless. To treat him as something more than this heavily cheapens his character, as that's exactly what he's meant to be: A man amongst gods. Captain America isn't Spider-Man, he isn't Wolverine, he isn't Daredevil, he isn't someone who dodges bullets, or can have big heavy (or even fist sized) rocks fall on him and just walk out of it like it's no problem. He raises his shield to protect his head, he gets shot. He keeps his shield down, he risks having crap fall on him which could ultimately knock him unconcious. In areas of high urban decay and combat, falling bricks WERE a problem to deal with. In hillsides, rocks. In high impact battlezones, debris brought up from the ground due to explosives.

For the type of fighting Captain America portrayed in the comics, not having protective gear, thick jackets, utility belts, durable thick shoes, durable gloves and the like, having a shield just isn't enough. If he fought like most people did in WW2, he'd either storm the beach, shield out deflecting most artillery, hoping a stray overhead grenade or debris wouldn't end his day, or hide behind barricades and fire back when optimal, eliminating the use of his shield.

[Kurosawa]

Cap with a helmet looks stupid.

"But..but...realism! *whine* *whine*"

It's a comic book movie, ok? Cap had the mask with the wings for almost his entire comic run. That IS Captain America. That's what makes him such a badass...he doesn't NEED a helmet!

A 98 pound weakling can get turned into the pinnacle of human perfection overnight, sure. He has an absolutely indestructible shield...obviously. He can survive being frozen in ice for 60+ years. Of course! But gosh-darn it, he needs a helmet...otherwise it's just too unbelievable!

Give me a break.

If Marvel is so hellbent on plausible realism, Iron Man's suit is COMPLETELY impossible as is The Hulk. Don't feed us those characters and then expect us to accept that Cap needs a helmet to survive.

"Realism" is the most absurd thing I have ever heard of where comics characters are concerned. I think it's just an excuse to go cheap on effects like the X-Men and FF movies.

[Aesop Rocks]

http://i50.tinypic.com/ev5ldt.jpg

Why? Well, seeing how none of us can agree on anything.

I threw that in there. I for one actually enjoy the suit and it's the most realistic suit possible that could appeal to the fanboys and the GA at the same time. Not 100% this design, but more 616 Kirby based design. Instead of black, a muted blue.

[Rage]

http://i50.tinypic.com/ev5ldt.jpg

Why? Well, seeing how none of us can agree on anything.

I threw that in there. I for one actually enjoy the suit and it's the most realistic suit possible that could appeal to the fanboys and the GA at the same time. Not 100% this design, but more 616 Kirby based design. Instead of black, a muted blue.

I hope not! I want to see Captain America... and not this "reflection" of Cap :D

[Aesop Rocks]

I actually don't mind the suit, I mean, I know we'll never see a winter solider anytime soon, so we won't be seeing that suit. Might as well use it, I mean. It's a nice suit.

[Kurosawa]

It's a nice suit for a Cap substitute, which is all Bucky/Cap is. I want to see something reasonably close to Cap's costume.