Captain America's Costume

[Webhead2006]

very good work.

[marcvader]

CO2, good work. As far as Caps look is concerned, I think Marvel will give him different looks and have him evolve. They are not dumb enough to pass up an opportunity for merchandising. It pretty much happens in most origin movies anyways.

[C. Lee]

Thanks man. I made it. The whole thing broke down like this.
The shirt and cargos pants are a matching pair from the Dickies store. I took the shirt along with some white and red fabric to a tailor to have be altered (definitely the most expensive part). I showed him pictures and he took my measurements. My mom made the mask out of a vinyl that resembled leather. I was going to put goggles on it but that made it look too busy. The belt and leggings are authentic WWII from an army/navy store. The boots are $20 jungle boots from Academy. The helmet is from a costume shop. I painted it and some foam board to make the shield. I used my Marvel select WWII Cap and the Ultimates book as the model.
Overall..clothes, tailor, paints, all supplies...it cost me almost $200 to do this. It took every spare minute of my weekends in October, but it was a fun project and won me a prize at one of the parties I went to. We even had costume day at work and everyone loved it. I'm thinking about hitting San Diego Comic-Con next year with this. Never been, and since the Cap movie will certainly be a topic, I figure it will be a good time to wear this.
I say go for the con....you made a great suit...it needs to be shown off.

[Webhead2006]

totally.

[Gamma Goliath]

That's pretty good, I just wanna see big screen budget one for this movie now.

[Webhead2006]

well of course what ever we will be getting in the film will be of very high quality.

[scatterax]

hey, what if they made it where caps 616 suit was made from vibranium (or vibranium like)threads and scales? that would give him a pretty good edge in battle, and would make him pretty even w/ the other avengers?

[Turtles]

It's the superhero genre. Costumes are par for the course. The movie going audience has already accepted the idea of people in superhero costumes. Whether it be Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc. They even accepted it in a film as bleak as The Dark Knight, in which you not only have a hero who dresses up as a bat and fights what look like real world mobsters, but the main villain dresses up like a clown and calls himself the Joker. In which the police department allowed said bat-looking hero to interrogate said clown looking mass murderer in their interrogation room. In comparison to that, why would Captain America present a problem?

These are bad examples to cite if you're for keeping Cap's costume exactly the same because all those costumes were changed for the movie. Only the coloring was really changed for Superman's costume, but I believe a lot more was changed on Batman's costume. Batman never wore armor like that in the comics, and at one point, didn't Batman actually wear blue and gray instead of all black? How can you argue that such major changes for Batman's costume are okay, but even one small change on the Captain America costume, like adding a helmet, is like an insult to the character and his fans?

One of the things that was great about Iron Man was how they weren't ashamed of the character. They embraced everything there was about him. We pretty much got his origin, just updated to modern times (Middle East as opposed to Vietnam). We got his old, bulky grey armor. And we got his modern, classic armor style, bright red and gold, with flying, repulsor rays, the works. They didn't tone down his armor in the name of "realism".

Actually, yes, they did. They didn't do his classic red and gold armor because they knew nobody would accept armor molded to look like muscles. They chose to use a suit designed in the last few years, skipping several other well known suits to do it.


That, IMO, is definitely a matter of opinion, and one I don't agree with. Turning his boots into red army boots would certainly turn out to be worse, not better, while more neutral colors which just detract from the overall costume and just genericize it.

So having five inches of red leather flapping around his legs would be an ideal choice? I think not. And people just want them to use darker colors, there is nothing wrong with that. They darkened the colors for Spider Man's costume, and Superman's costume, too, if I recall.


Any moreso than seeing an archaeologist with a whip and a pistol take on Nazis? I don't think anyone found that childish, tacky, or offensive. Same goes for a character like the Rocketeer. And from what we've heard, we're getting a Captain America movie along those lines.

Indiana Jones and the Rocketeer weren't on the front lines.

About the only thing the Ultimate costume has over it is a coat and a helmet, and those are just accessories you can add to the regular costume, along with an ammo belt and gun holster. They're not things you need every day. Especially since given what we've heard about the script, he's not gonna be storming the beaches of Normandy. He's gonna be in Indiana Jones/Rocketeer style action.

If the only thing the Ultimates costume has different from the original costume is a coat and helmet, then why are you complaining so much? Why are you having a hissy fit over a coat and helmet?



Fighting terrorists is pretty serious, too, and yet we had no problem with classic Iron Man (as opposed to a more "militaristic" and "serious" Iron Man with, say, desert camo or whatever) duking it out with terrorists in the Middle East. If we are getting a Rocketeer/Indiana Jones style movie, then the classic costume would definitely fit in just fine.

Iron Man doesn't need camo--he's Iron Man. He's in armor, he's not a walking target in red, white, and blue, with only one weapon, like Captain America. But, I think some of Iron Man's later armors in the comics did have a camoflague feature.

I'm all for making the costumes true to the comics, but at the end of the day I (and you) have to realize that the costumes were designed in another time period, for a medium that is known for crazy costumes, and without their adaptability to the big screen even being considered when pencil met paper.

I'll accept the Ultimates costumes for three reasons:

1: I love the WWII outfit
2: Cap's 616 outfit always looked corny to me. Just about everybody's early 616 costumes look corny to me.
3: The only difference between Ultimate Cap's modern costume and 616 Cap's modern costume is a pair of camo pants, pirate boots, and solid blue sleeves.

I'll be happy if they use the Ulimates WWII outfit as is, and just replace the camo pants Ultimate Cap started to wear with blue pants.

[Tcrumzz]

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/tcrumzz/ScreenShot008.jpg

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/tcrumzz/ScreenShot014.jpg

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/tcrumzz/ScreenShot015.jpg

i like the look of this one from the new ultimate avengers
except i could care less about the stars on the shoulders. maybe throw the wings back on the mask

[Brian Braddock]

Sorry dude, I'd love to comment on the costume but 'm currently too awestruck by that amazing Pacheco artwork; that top panel with Cap gracefully leaping over the car bonet is damn cool and is Cap to a 't'.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, I think as far as Modern Cap costume, its hard to argue against that particular Ultimates costume... The changes from the 616 aren't major, but they subtley lend more realism to it, without abandoning what makes caps costume so fantastic....

With the WWII costume however, I think people are always going disagree which costume is best. The only real thing i'll speculate on is that I definitely think the film makers will have planned for Cap to have different costumes for WWII and Modern.

[Young Superman]

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/tcrumzz/ScreenShot008.jpg

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/tcrumzz/ScreenShot014.jpg

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/tcrumzz/ScreenShot015.jpg

i like the look of this one from the new ultimate avengers
except i could care less about the stars on the shoulders. maybe throw the wings back on the mask
I like it.

[Brian Braddock]

I'd definately eliminate the small grey portions of the Ultimate costume; they just seem so redundant to me.

[Antonello Blueberry]

Is that Pacheco on the art?

[Wolvieboy17]

I'd definately eliminate the small grey portions of the Ultimate costume; they just seem so redundant to me.

Maybe just make them a different shade of blue, because I kinda like the 2 tone thing.

[Brian Braddock]

Is that Pacheco on the art?

Definately the top panel, although I'm not reading the Ultimates at the moment so I cant speak for the others. I'd assume so though.

Maybe just make them a different shade of blue, because I kinda like the 2 tone thing.

That could work - as long as theres no grey in there.

[Ace of Knaves]

Skin tight spandex is the way to go, gentlemen :up:

[Brian Braddock]

I was going to make a joke there Ace, but I decided it was too easy.

:D

[Webhead2006]

yea cap is likely going to have multi suits between first avenger and the avengers.

[Triad]

I like that Ultimate version (minus the grey underarms) for present day. I would probably go with the helmet & exposed neck from Ult.II (with added wings) if I was to customize it to my personal preference.
Looks cool though. (especially the top one!) I haven't read the newest Ultimates series because of so many negative fan-reviews. Is it worth it?

[jab1118]

Maybe just make them a different shade of blue, because I kinda like the 2 tone thing.

I kind of like it too maybe have that be a different material, like that is where the armor stops so he is more flexible and able to twist and move

[Turtles]

Tcrumzz's pictures illustrate exactly what I mean: if you look past the changes, none of which are horrifyingly huge, then the costume of Ultimate Captain America is not much different than that of 616 Captain America.

If the Ultimates costume isn't that different from the original costume, I still say we go with the Ultimates costume, because it's the more believable of the two in my opinion.

I'd definately eliminate the small grey portions of the Ultimate costume; they just seem so redundant to me.

The gray parts really didn't seem so out of place when he wore the matching gray pants at the Ultimates coming out part on the Triskelion. But then they changed his pants to blue a few issues later and kept the underarms and sides of the shirt gray....Why? I guess the writers just like changing Cap's pants but not his shirt.

If his pants aren't gray, I see no reason to make the underarms of the shirt gray. Though, I could go with a two-tone blue design like someone else suggested.

[roach]

So just by removing the pirate boots on a skintight costume makes it realistic????

[Brian Braddock]

Well, I do occasionally see people wearing skintight clothing from day to day but, and I've got to be honest here, I've yet to see anyone walking around wearing pirate boots.

But it's a moot point because you dont tend to see superheroes or supersoldiers walking around everyday either.

[Wolvieboy17]

So just by removing the pirate boots on a skintight costume makes it realistic????
It's about making it more believable, we're not talking about gritty realism... It's no different to changing batmans suit to armor instead of spandex, is it?

[roach]

Im not a fan of the Bat armor.
So you can believe that the government could create a chemical to make a man perfect.
You can believe they created an indestructable metal alloy and turned it onto a discus shield that said perfect man throws around like a frisbee. You can believe that Hitler would have a top operative who wears a red skull mask...that both hero and villain can get frozen and unthawed in modern times...yes pirate boots is what makes this movie unbelieveable????

[daderade]

ya know...i like 616 Cap better as a character...but im not gonna lie, i like the ultimate costume better i think.

[Webhead2006]

Well i am sure the look and character will probably be mix and match of both 616 an ultimate versions of the character. I am sure they will be able to find a nice balance and have fans of either take be happy about.

[Gamma Goliath]

Exactly, I think overall, 616 cap, is better as a character. But I won't lie, I've grown to like both versions of the ultimate costumes, and I hate the ultimate comics. I even like that helmet thing on his head.
But I think some people just have to realize these movies while I'm sure they try to stay faithful to the original sources, they are in a different universe by them selfs, and it will take from original, and new sources, while adding things that we've never seen to distinguish itself and not be an exact replica of the classic stuff that was printed 60 years ago.

[Wolvieboy17]

So you can believe that the government could create a chemical to make a man perfect.
You can believe they created an indestructable metal alloy and turned it onto a discus shield that said perfect man throws around like a frisbee. You can believe that Hitler would have a top operative who wears a red skull mask...that both hero and villain can get frozen and unthawed in modern times...yes pirate boots is what makes this movie unbelieveable????

Look man, you're so set in your views, it doesnt matter what anyone says, you're clearly still going to want the pirate boots... But for the record, when we say 'believable' we mean within the context of the movie, and how it is sold... Plot elements and things like that can be sold quite easily, and people accept it... After all, superhero movies are so common these days, people expect powers and fantastic elements like that... But they also expect an element of believability in their characters... If Steve Rogers is portrayed realistically, as in like a real human being, with real emotions and reactions to everything, then people will connect with that... That becomes harder to do if he has huge red pirate boots, or over the top wings on his head.... i'm not saying get rid of it, but it needs to be scaled down to help audiences accept Cap...
thats the last thing i'm gonna say on it, otherwise we'll be arguing forever.

[chris moore]

In regards to any 21st century Capness I would be fine with the Ultimate costume (but no bloody helmet), so long as the characterisation remains entirely 616. I would also be fine if they removed the stars on the shoulders and added the wings to the mask (to have both might be over complicating the overall look).

Back in the 40's, stick to the Ultimate WW2, but maybe go with the boot style Hitch has used for Caps' flashbacks in Cap Reborn

[Brian Braddock]

Im not a fan of the Bat armor.
So you can believe that the government could create a chemical to make a man perfect.
You can believe they created an indestructable metal alloy and turned it onto a discus shield that said perfect man throws around like a frisbee. You can believe that Hitler would have a top operative who wears a red skull mask...that both hero and villain can get frozen and unthawed in modern times...yes pirate boots is what makes this movie unbelieveable????

You're actually saying that pretty much anything goes in terms of costuming as we've already bought into the other high concept aspects of the story?

That's like saying 'You can believe they created an indestructable metal alloy and turned it onto a discus shield that said perfect man throws around like a frisbee. You can believe that Hitler would have a top operative who wears a red skull mask...that both hero and villain can get frozen and unthawed in modern times...yes a pink tutu is what makes this movie unbelieveable????'

For what it's worth, I dont find the prospect of the pirate boots as being 'unbelievable'; I'd actually lean more towards the use of the word 'ridiculous'. They're the one aspect of the traditional costume that I've never truly been sold on.

[Brian Braddock]

In regards to any 21st century Capness I would be fine with the Ultimate costume (but no bloody helmet), so long as the characterisation remains entirely 616. I would also be fine if they removed the stars on the shoulders and added the wings to the mask (to have both might be over complicating the overall look).

Back in the 40's, stick to the Ultimate WW2, but maybe go with the boot style Hitch has used for Caps' flashbacks in Cap Reborn

I'd be happy with that, Chris.

[roach]

For what it's worth, I dont find the prospect of the pirate boots as being 'unbelievable'; I'd actually lean more towards the use of the word 'ridiculous'. They're the one aspect of the traditional costume that I've never truly been sold on.

thats because people think of them as ridiculous and refuse to believe that Hollywood could make them look cool. Its like people look at the Spider-man live action tv show costume and dont believe a cool Spider-man costume can be made. The Bat-suit was mentioned as a good updating to the costume. However they didnt remove the ears or the glove fins.

[Brian Braddock]

The examples are a tad different imo as it was pretty much obvious that the Spidey costume would look cool when made right given that it's such a good design at its core in the 1st place but theres nothing about red pirate boots which says to me that they'll ever look good, no matter who makes them or to what standard they're made.

I mean, c'mon, they're red pirate boots.

[chris moore]

I think there are degress of acceptibility though. Such as, to use your avatar as an example. There is no way on Gods green earth that Captain Britain's Queen's guard boots could ever work on screen with a spandex outfit. But pirate boots might just be able to pass muster

[Brian Braddock]

Hey, you'll got no arguement from me in regards to Captain Britain's classic thigh length numbers. :hehe:

And I'm all about the degress of acceptability, believe me - that's exactly the point that I'm trying to make. Just because we're to accept that Cap's a supersoldier and that superhumans exist, that people can fly and have super strength, we're also supposed to accept the red pirate boots?

I dont think so.

[Blackman]

I just want wings....I dont care about the boots I just would like to have wings on the costume

[Brian Braddock]

Yeah, wings would be nice.

[Triad]

In regards to any 21st century Capness I would be fine with the Ultimate costume (but no bloody helmet), so long as the characterisation remains entirely 616. I would also be fine if they removed the stars on the shoulders and added the wings to the mask (to have both might be over complicating the overall look).

Back in the 40's, stick to the Ultimate WW2, but maybe go with the boot style Hitch has used for Caps' flashbacks in Cap Reborn

I agree with everything you said except the part about no Ult.II helmet. I personally like it...just with added wings. I think it is so much more cooler looking and functional than the cowl/mask.

[Webhead2006]

well we will know probably in about 8 months or so were they are going for costume.

[Rage]

I think that the wings (while a tad weird) really ad to the character. I originally wanted them gone... but the more I see Ultimate illustrations popping up... the more I think they need the wings... that being said... I want them very stylistic and sleek, not looking like actual wings with feathers.

Also, I think that the gloves and boots need to have LESS FLAIR and more function (like the ultimate version)

I don't mind the pouches on the belt (but they aren't necessary) and I don't mind the two tone body on the outfit. The Stars on the shoulders aren't necessary either.

Rage

[Jayce76]

Don't touch the wings please. It's what make's Cap the Captain. I don't see why in a complete fantasy period piece in early WWII , one would need to change Cap's look at all.

But that's just me.

[roach]

Hey, you'll got no arguement from me in regards to Captain Britain's classic thigh length numbers. :hehe:

And I'm all about the degress of acceptability, believe me - that's exactly the point that I'm trying to make. Just because we're to accept that Cap's a supersoldier and that superhumans exist, that people can fly and have super strength, we're also supposed to accept the red pirate boots?

I dont think so.

acceptability and believeability will be set by the movies tone.
The point i was making is that may posters are saying it would be unbelievable or acceptable that Cap would run around in red pirate boots and wings on his head. In the grand scheme of things when he is standing next to Thor (if they give Thor a 616 suit) no one is going to be worried about pirate boots

[roach]

If Steve Rogers is portrayed realistically, as in like a real human being, with real emotions and reactions to everything, then people will connect with that... That becomes harder to do if he has huge red pirate boots, or over the top wings on his head.... i'm not saying get rid of it, but it needs to be scaled down to help audiences accept Cap...
thats the last thing i'm gonna say on it, otherwise we'll be arguing forever.

so its the red pirate boots that will prevent people from connecting to him....while he runs around in a blue costume, throws a shield that always comes back to him and fights the Red Skull and his assorted henchmen....survives freezing in water....but its the red pirate boots that keep the movie from being real:doh:

[Rage]

What looked good on the printed page back then wasn't even translated to film back then (cap serials)... meaning even back then they thought that the pirate boots were a little flamboyant.

[Turtles]

Im not a fan of the Bat armor.
So you can believe that the government could create a chemical to make a man perfect.
You can believe they created an indestructable metal alloy and turned it onto a discus shield that said perfect man throws around like a frisbee. You can believe that Hitler would have a top operative who wears a red skull mask...that both hero and villain can get frozen and unthawed in modern times...yes pirate boots is what makes this movie unbelieveable????

You're right, the pirate boots aren't the most unbelievable thing about Cap; they are but one of the many unbelievable things about Cap. And that's why they need to be changed.

There are so many unbelievable things about Cap that, more than likely, some things will need to be changed in order to make the movie slightly more acceptable to the general, non-comic book reading, audience. Unfortunately for the pirate boots, they're probably going to be on top of the list of things to change because they're easier than anything else to change. It's hard to alter a character's history and still keep them the same character, but it's easy to alter a character's costume and keep him the same character, you know?

Besides, the boots certainly are, in my opinion, one of the ugliest things about Cap, and that is reason enough to try and get rid of them.

[roach]

I really dont foresee the non comic movie going public having an issue with the pirate boots....the only ones who care are us. Then tend to believe anything if it makes sense in the world that's shown. James Bond can take out an army with one clip from his handgun and no one bats an eye....Superman flies around with underwear on the outside of his costume and no one says anything.
I just dont understand the hate for the boots....he has had them since forever and the one chance they got to change them with Bucky Cap they kept them. Will it make or break the movie for me...probably not. It will go in the category of Batman Begins and TDK...ok movies but I cant stand the costumes

[chris moore]

We could probably do with a manip of the Ultimate costume with 616 boots and wings. Or at the least, Ultimate with the 616 wings. Havent got good enough software at work to do it right now. But maybe later

[Ace of Knaves]

You're actually saying that pretty much anything goes in terms of costuming as we've already bought into the other high concept aspects of the story?

That's like saying 'You can believe they created an indestructable metal alloy and turned it onto a discus shield that said perfect man throws around like a frisbee. You can believe that Hitler would have a top operative who wears a red skull mask...that both hero and villain can get frozen and unthawed in modern times...yes a pink tutu is what makes this movie unbelieveable????'

For what it's worth, I dont find the prospect of the pirate boots as being 'unbelievable'; I'd actually lean more towards the use of the word 'ridiculous'. They're the one aspect of the traditional costume that I've never truly been sold on.

hehe nicely put Bri, and I agree.

The pirate boots and to a lesser extent those gloves I've always found stupid looking and ridiculous. It's nothing to do with realism or believability. It's to do with the pirate boots looking ****ing stupid, it's as simple as that.

It might be hard for some hard core golden age fans to accept, but some of the stuff from back in the "good old days" of comics ARE ****ing stupid and ridiculous. The costumes and now looking back, sometime I literally cringe at how cheesy and ridiculous the writing was back then. It's nostalgia that makes people love the golden age stuff. Because I guarantee if they still wrote and designed characters like they did back then in this day and age, comics would be no where near as popular.

[Young Superman]

If they don't use the WWII Ultimate Cap costume in The First Avenger: Captain America I would like them to use this:

http://www.brokenfrontier.com/userfiles/images/headlines/2009/jul/CaptainAmerica_Reborn_01_SecondPrinting.jpg

[roach]

I like that design but I dont like the helmet

[Triad]

Absolutely LOVE the helmeted-look but not sold on the stenciled on wings. We MUST have wings though! (This is the look I'd prefer in The Avengers movie, anyway)

[roach]

im ok with the rest of the costume but the helmet just looks odd

hmmmm pirate boots and gloves that dont look ridiculous...how did they do that???

[Young Superman]

For his helmet just do this:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/seanstarrunner/Captain%20America%20pics/RingoWWIICap.jpg

[Triad]

im ok with the rest of the costume but the helmet just looks odd

Well, the costume is essentially the 616 besides the belt with pouches. I think the collar should be a little higher & cover more of the neck though. As for the helmet, I respectfully disagree with you roach.

hmmmm pirate boots and gloves that dont look ridiculous...how did they do that???
How did I know that this was coming? :cwink:

[marcvader]

If they don't use the WWII Ultimate Cap costume in The First Avenger: Captain America I would like them to use this:



http://www.brokenfrontier.com/userfiles/images/headlines/2009/jul/CaptainAmerica_Reborn_01_SecondPrinting.jpg

After his initial training and first couple missions wearing the Ulitmate Vol.1 blue GI fatigues, helmet and triangular shield I want Cap to wear this for the latter acts of the movie and climactic scene where he becomes frozen.

[Rage]

im ok with the rest of the costume but the helmet just looks odd

hmmmm pirate boots and gloves that dont look ridiculous...how did they do that???

Those aren't "pirate boots" but rather boots combat boots with boot covers that are folded over. Note the buttons on the side... If they did the boots this way... I wouldn't complain because the boot covers make sense because G.I.s wore covers like that...so it makes sense.... RED PIRATE BOOTS... not so much. The gloves aren't bad...kinda like motorcycle gloves. I think that they gloves can flair out at the top... just so long as they don't go half way up the forearm.

I would be okay with this design with the exception of the painted on elements on the helmet. Make the wings metallic and raised off the helmet and I would be fine with this

[Keyser Soze]

If they decide the classic costume is too much, could Bucky's Captain America outfit possibly be a suitable compromise?

http://i37.tinypic.com/2me1y4j.jpg

[Webhead2006]

i doubt they will do bucky's cap suit. Also quick question with steve back in the comics whats up with him and bucky's cap?

As for film i said it before personally i wouldnt mind ultimates ww2 suit with a few modifications(wings on helmet) for first avenger. Then in the avengers get classic suit. Say its built from stark and/or shield of special nano tech fibers that is flexible but gives good armor protection.

[roach]

Well, the costume is essentially the 616 besides the belt with pouches. I think the collar should be a little higher & cover more of the neck though. As for the helmet, I respectfully disagree with you roach.


How did I know that this was coming? :cwink:

I guess if the make the wings raised it will be ok......cause im predictable as the sunrise

[roach]

Those aren't "pirate boots" but rather boots combat boots with boot covers that are folded over. Note the buttons on the side... If they did the boots this way... I wouldn't complain because the boot covers make sense because G.I.s wore covers like that...so it makes sense.... RED PIRATE BOOTS... not so much. The gloves aren't bad...kinda like motorcycle gloves. I think that they gloves can flair out at the top... just so long as they don't go half way up the forearm.

I would be okay with this design with the exception of the painted on elements on the helmet. Make the wings metallic and raised off the helmet and I would be fine with this

i consider those pirate boots

[That person]

If they don't use the WWII Ultimate Cap costume in The First Avenger: Captain America I would like them to use this:

http://www.brokenfrontier.com/userfiles/images/headlines/2009/jul/CaptainAmerica_Reborn_01_SecondPrinting.jpg

Wait, a costume that would work equally well fo WW2 and Modern Cap? Hell yes. Still not sold on the scalemail, but Iove the general design.

[Keyser Soze]

If they don't use the WWII Ultimate Cap costume in The First Avenger: Captain America I would like them to use this:

http://www.brokenfrontier.com/userfiles/images/headlines/2009/jul/CaptainAmerica_Reborn_01_SecondPrinting.jpg

What I liked about this design is that underneath the helmt he's still wearing his regular mask, and he just puts the helmet on when going into battle.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea and it makes sense Cap would wear a lid. The Super Soldier Serum doesn't grant him a bullet proof skull.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, its a nice comprimise between the two different costumes...

And Roach, as far as our disagreements go towards the Pirate boots, that is what I would call a 'toning down'. The flaps aren't too big, and sticking out to draw attention to themselves, and they pass as more practical military boots, whilst still being distinguishable enough and fit for a super soldier...

See, comprimise isn't such a bad thing? :oldrazz:

[roach]

I never said I was against a toning down of the pirate boots....im against taking them away because someone thinks they look ridiculous

[Brian Braddock]

In the same way that you think 'the helmet looks odd' Roach?

[marcvader]

The only real issue i have is the uh snugness if you may, of his trousers.:)

[roach]

there is just something about the helmet that throws the design off for me...if it was up to me I wouldnt do the helmet but if this is what was on screen as the Cap costume it I would be ok with it

[Brian Braddock]

The only real issue i have is the uh snugness if you may, of his trousers.:)

Yeah, gotta keep the rating down, eh? :woot:

[marcvader]

I think they made him wear his pre serum trousers again. You know with the shortage in times of war and all

[Brian Braddock]

That would be a poor call given that Steve's all man.

:D

[marcvader]

whoa! lol good one

[Drz]

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/Drazlol/Ultimate%20Marvel/CaptainAmericaWW21.jpg

Something like this. :)

[Nightwing]

Where'd you get that? Looks f'n sweet.

[Wolvieboy17]

there is just something about the helmet that throws the design off for me...if it was up to me I wouldnt do the helmet but if this is what was on screen as the Cap costume it I would be ok with it

I reckon it'd be cool if he wore the helmet for the Cap Solo movie (it is WWII after all), as it has a really cool tone and feel to it, in regards to being on the frontlines. I particularly like the crudely painted wings, it gives Cap more of a down to earth, frontline leader of men, rather than a polished shiny symbol... That way, for the Avengers movie, when Stark or someone redesigns his suit, he can give him the wingtips so we can get that classic Cap costume. What do you think?

[Drz]

Where'd you get that? Looks f'n sweet.

Eddie Nunez. :) (http://miacabrera.deviantart.com/)

He's also done these two cool pieces of Cap & Bucky (tho his Bucky is abit too much Robin lookalike hehe) Click here (http://miacabrera.deviantart.com/art/Cap-and-Bucky-127940523) & here. (http://miacabrera.deviantart.com/art/capnbucky-2-136399930)

[Nightwing]

Eddie Nunez. :) (http://miacabrera.deviantart.com/)

He's also done these two cool pieces of Cap & Bucky (tho his Bucky is abit too much Robin lookalike hehe) Click here (http://miacabrera.deviantart.com/art/Cap-and-Bucky-127940523) & here. (http://miacabrera.deviantart.com/art/capnbucky-2-136399930)
Great, thanks man. :up:

[Webhead2006]

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/Drazlol/Ultimate%20Marvel/CaptainAmericaWW21.jpg

Something like this. :)
This looks cool

[Triad]

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/Drazlol/Ultimate%20Marvel/CaptainAmericaWW21.jpg

Something like this. :)
I would be ALL for this look! That looks EXCELLENT! I especially like the grenades (smoke bomb canisters?)
I still think I miss the wings though. If the artist just added that minor tweak, I'd be very happy with it. This is the way that I've been envisioning Cap in his movie. Looks tough as nails!

[Chris Wallace]

If they decide the classic costume is too much, could Bucky's Captain America outfit possibly be a suitable compromise?

http://i37.tinypic.com/2me1y4j.jpg

Doesn't work for me.:dry:

[Young Superman]

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/Drazlol/Ultimate%20Marvel/CaptainAmericaWW21.jpg

Something like this. :)
This costume could work for both eras, WW2 and the present.

[Sparky]

That looks cool. It's sort of a mix of the Ultimate WWII uniform and the Captain America Reborn look. Just add wings stenciled onto the helmet and it will be perfect.

Something like this:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7961/captainamericawwii.jpg

[Timstuff]

That look is freaking BAD ASS! I'd be all for that as Cap's WW2 costume!

[Young Superman]

That looks cool. It's sort of a mix of the Ultimate WWII uniform and the Captain America Reborn look. Just add wings stenciled onto the helmet and it will be perfect.

Something like this:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7961/captainamericawwii.jpg
BADASS! Like I said above this could work in BOTH WW2 and the present.

[Gamma Goliath]

it looks pretty good

[Stripesy Strip]

That's a great outfit! It's even better than what Bryan Hitch did on The Ultimates.

I also like the even more army version that we've seen in a few fanfic picks that have been realsed on the net.

Both version would be cool, but for whatever reasons, the fanboy in me would like to see Cap in his classic costume fighting in WWII.

I would be happy with all three possibilities.

[Ace of Knaves]

I love that design. Very cool.

[chris moore]

Love it. But would only want it for WWII - fabrics being what they were back then, having a heavy jacket thing like this pic would work really well for the conditions he would have to operate in. But in modern times, a more superheroey outfit would be better for me.

[Stripesy Strip]

Ultimate Cap WWII outfit for Captain America 1.

This great designed outfit showed above for when he reappears in the Avengers movie to fight whatever enemy it is the World is facing.

Regular 616 outfit in Captain America 2(not the Cassaday one but the Kirby one).

[Ace of Knaves]

I would imagine in Avengers Stark creates him a new suit. With some advanced polymer armours or something.

[Stripesy Strip]

That's a good point and a pretty neat idea in itself. So he wouldn't have to wear all this extra gear.

[Webhead2006]

great colorized version of that ultimates ww2 style suit. I said it before i personally think going ultimates ww 2 for cap would work out good. Then we leave the modern/classic look for the avengers. Make the suit be built either by shield and/or stark. Of a super flexible but strong kelvar/polmar armor stuff.

[Webhead2006]

great colorized version of that ultimates ww2 style suit. I said it before i personally think going ultimates ww 2 for cap would work out good. Then we leave the modern/classic look for the avengers. Make the suit be built either by shield and/or stark. Of a super flexible but strong kelvar/polmar armor stuff.

[chris moore]

Please, no hi tech, advanced "Tony'll make him a new shield and a new suit, and he'll make Hulk some pants that fit both him and Banner, and he'll make Thor a comm unit for his helmet that'll work between midgard and asgard". That could get real old, real quick for the films.

[Wolvieboy17]

Please, no hi tech, advanced "Tony'll make him a new shield and a new suit, and he'll make Hulk some pants that fit both him and Banner, and he'll make Thor a comm unit for his helmet that'll work between midgard and asgard". That could get real old, real quick for the films.
I think maybe, considering the avengers is a S.H.I.E.L.D. initiative, and are in turn funded by the government, they could perhaps afford to update caps clothes from 1941 to modern times... I don't think thats just quite entering 'unstable molecule' territory yet.

Besides, we already he's got a version of the shield.

great colorized version of that ultimates ww2 style suit. I said it before i personally think going ultimates ww 2 for cap would work out good. Then we leave the modern/classic look for the avengers. Make the suit be built either by shield and/or stark. Of a super flexible but strong kelvar/polmar armor stuff.

Personally, I think the Ultimate WWII outfit could lose the bird nose goggle things....Switch that with just his regular face mask and a helmet, and now we're talkin!

[Ace of Knaves]

Please, no hi tech, advanced "Tony'll make him a new shield and a new suit, and he'll make Hulk some pants that fit both him and Banner, and he'll make Thor a comm unit for his helmet that'll work between midgard and asgard". That could get real old, real quick for the films.

Huh? It makes perfect sense.

Have his suit still look exactly like the traditional Cap suit. But have it be made with sophisticated, advanced materials. Not just blue army fatigues.

Like the chainmail for instance. Would Cap running around in bog standard chain mail look any good or fit into the 21st century? No. Have it be some advanced, highly flexible and lightweight plate mail or something.

[Webhead2006]

well you would figure in present day setting stark and or shield would have guys in some special suits and all that. I dont see any issues to say if caps classic/modern suit isnt seen to avengers for it to be a specially designed suit for him to show off captain america to the new generation and for it to be more then just u know a shirt and pants. I see no reason why it wouldnt be a slight body armor like kelvar vests are of today's world and all that. Nothing like a full on armor suit like the batman live action suits.

[co2]

I'd like to see the Ultimate WWII costume and the 616 for the Cap movie, and then the modern Ultimate Cap costume for Avengers. I'm not sure why so many people are suggesting changes, but at the same time rejecting the Ultimate costume, which think works.

I do have a funny story.....

I shared in this thread that I made the Ultimate WWII Cap costume and wore it to work the Friday before Halloween. (if you notice on the corner of my desk is my Cap figure)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/co2/Mouser10-30-09.jpg

So, I had to give some presentations this past Monday. 3 of them, each one to a group of about 20 people. Well, my boss played a prank on me that I didn't know he had in store. Each time when he introduced me, he would say,
"I want to bring up our guest speaker. You may know him better as 'Captain America'".
And the he would immediately bring up that photo. It got a good laugh, and I acted embarrased, but to be honest, I thought it was pretty cool . LOL.

[Webhead2006]

thats cool man.

[Young Superman]

That looks sweet

[chris moore]

well you would figure in present day setting stark and or shield would have guys in some special suits and all that. I dont see any issues to say if caps classic/modern suit isnt seen to avengers for it to be a specially designed suit for him to show off captain america to the new generation and for it to be more then just u know a shirt and pants. I see no reason why it wouldnt be a slight body armor like kelvar vests are of today's world and all that. Nothing like a full on armor suit like the batman live action suits.

I'm totally up for a new Cap suit for modern times, and SHIELD designing it. But just designing a look. I don't really want intelligent fabrics or armoured sections, or morphing masks or anything. And I don't think Stark should be responsible for creating the shield. He's an engineer, not a metallurgist or a chemist.

[Wolvieboy17]

As a weapons manufacturer, I don't see a problem with Stark creating the shield (and we already know he's created a prototype from the sneaky shot in IM 1 to the set report from Iron Man 2). I don't think you need to worry about Cap getting loaded up with gadgets though, and Stark isn't going to become the new Q lol.

[jab1118]

To be honest I dont see why Cap cant have some sort of advanced suit in ww2. We can buy that the government can create a supersoldier serum, an indusrtuctable shield but not have some material way ahead of its time that can stop bullets. Just say its way to expensive and inpractical to mass produce, but their one and only super soldier is worth protecting. Give him an updated sleaker version of his classic costume with some ultimate influences and call it a day

[chris moore]

Its not the believability. Its the necessity, and the ease. Cap shouldn't, and to my mind doesn't need super synthetic fabrics. Further, it wouldn't be the smartest thing to say that the only soldier worth protecting is the one they already spent a lot on, so while we could not up a bunch of shields, we won't. Much better to have it as a fluke like the supersoldier serum (which of course wasn't a fluke, but it was a process that resulted in only one of its kind and couldn't be reproduced).

[Ace of Knaves]

But Cap doesn't have super human durability does he? He still needs armour. And armour from 1940 ain't gonna cut it.

[Young Superman]

Agreed Chris

[Wolvieboy17]

I think they could justify a kevlar type fabric for the modern outfit easily enough, and thats all they really need to do. Nothing that will stop a bullet, thats a little unrealistic, but at least a slightly more resistant material that offers some protection.

[Ace of Knaves]

^Yea exactly. Like an experimental, ultra light weight and highly durable cloth or something.

[Wolvieboy17]

Exactly, although they probably don't even need to explain it that much... Fury or Stark can just mention in passing "New costume, basic kevlar, heres your new shield etc"... If they don't over explain it, or draw attention to it, it will be more believable... Then if during a battle Cap gets shot or something and keeps going, the audience will go with it.

[tamron]

That looks cool. It's sort of a mix of the Ultimate WWII uniform and the Captain America Reborn look. Just add wings stenciled onto the helmet and it will be perfect.

Something like this:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7961/captainamericawwii.jpg

:up:

[chris moore]

Carbon nanotube weave would suffice. Light, durable, and flexible. Not quite there yet in terms of application, but the science is real

[Compi716]

I'm thinking Cap will be given the circular shield at some point during the movie. It's his iconic symbol, and I don't think Marvel will pass on the chance of using it.

[Young Superman]

Agreed

[Triad]

Yeah, It would be coolest if the circular shield is given to him in the first movie. I think the original triangular one should be used first though.
I know that IM had the shield easter egg, but there's something awesome about Cap being presented the one-of-a-kind by President Truman.

[Compi716]

Yeah, It would be coolest if the circular shield is given to him in the first movie. I think the original triangular one should be used first though.
I know that IM had the shield easter egg, but there's something awesome about Cap being presented the one-of-a-kind by President Roosevelt.
Fixed :cwink:.

[Young Superman]

Fixed :cwink:.

:up::up::up:

[Webhead2006]

yea i see no issue of both shields being used in the film. Start with the first one, then like in the comics as folks said do a scene where cap is presented with the circular one. Maybe to connect back to ironman say howard stark help or was the designer of the shield. That way maybe we then see tony has the plans from it and that is why we saw one in ironman and all that.

[JackIvyGB]

You guys, I don't think Stark was MAKING that shield that was in Iron Man. If I remember what the tie in comic that came with the DVD said, Stark got his hands on a rejected proto-type that was meant for Cap and used it to help synthesize a super strong metal to build his suits out of. It was rejected because it wasn't strong enough for Captain America. So it's still reasonable that Cap would recieve his circular shield from the president in First Avenger. The shield in IM was an old unused WW2 era Cap reject that was still strong enough for Tony to make the IM suits from.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, but they may not count that as proper movie continuity.

[Stripesy Strip]

I wouldn't mind if Stark or S.H.I.E.L.D. was making the circular one to tell you the truth. If the Ultimates version of Cap had something right it was that. I like the crude outfit with triangle shield for WWII and then a modern outfit with circular shield for today. I know it wasn't like that in the regular comics but I think it's a concepcual improvement. They gave Cap the triangle shield in the first place because it was a seremonial piece in that it fitted with the American emblem of the eagle and the shield. Of course it was a protective device also but it was part of the propaganda. He was like the American Knight and the chainmail gave the outfit a mix of a knight and a bird/eagle. And it would be with today's tech that he would get a true invincible <circular> shield. (a neat trick would be for Cap to wear a seremonial outfit just for show when he's front of the press in the 40s when he's presented for the first time before going to war. The outfit would have chainmail and so forth like the outfit he's always had. And then wear the WWII Ultimate Cap outfit in battle)

[chris moore]

Cap has the triangular shield made from steel. It serves him well for a time, but gets dented on more than one occasion and proves only useful for actual shielding. Byron MacLain accidentally creates the vibranium/iron alloy and moulds it into the classic round shield before it cools too much. He gives it to President Roosevelt, who in turn presents it to Steve Rogers.
Slight change in continuity at this point. MacLain is never able to reproduce his success (though we might need only have a mention of this towards the end of the film), or even have his closest break be that of adamantium discovery. Instead, decades later having found MacLain's notes amongst some classified material in the supersoldier dossier, the government asks Stark Industries to have a crack at duplicating the process. They aren't able to make another alloy like Cap's shield. But they do create adamantium. This is the prototype shield that Stark has in his workshop. It doesnt have the ricochet properties that Cap's does. But its virtually indestructible - though in itself it cost almost a billion dollars to create (which is why Tony developes the cheaper, and less strong but still pretty tough titanium/gold alloy that he eventually uses for his suit).

[blackbyrd]

I don't know how to attach pics but the most recent rendering of CAP is great. The 616 suit won't work for a variety of reasons. One is that Cap was involved in the European theater of WWII and from most accounts he was involved in the storming of Normandy Beach. He wasn't one of the guys that parachuted into France behind enemy lines with the Airborne units like Easy Company in Band of Brothers.

The D-Day landings were on June 6 right at the start of summer but the war lasted well into winter and it is pretty well known that the winters of WWII were some of the worst on record. The 616 suit doesn't accomodate Cap for winter. It just looks silly.

The suit should look somewhat "real" to address real world elements, etc.

Also, in some of the threads there was a reference to Cap being a spysmasher. Cap worked for the US Army, not the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was the precursor to the CIA. He wasn't involved in spysmashing or anything. And if he was in the comics, it was only because the writers were uneducated about that issue in history.

As for pirate boots, I think he would better be served by having regular issue boots with red spats. The red gloves are fine. He should have pouches for various items that he would need on any war campaign. The wings on the helmet look crazy if they stick out. They would look a whole lot better stenciled on.

I think adding some real worled elements would really put this thing over the edge with some real historical information that is accurate. I think it'd be a pretty smart move not to make a mockery of what the real WWII vets did back then. Not to say that Cap would do that but the folks in Hollywood don't always know better.

Just my two cents.

[Stripesy Strip]

I don't know how to attach pics but the most recent rendering of CAP is great. The 616 suit won't work for a variety of reasons. One is that Cap was involved in the European theater of WWII and from most accounts he was involved in the storming of Normandy Beach. He wasn't one of the guys that parachuted into France behind enemy lines with the Airborne units like Easy Company in Band of Brothers.

The D-Day landings were on June 6 right at the start of summer but the war lasted well into winter and it is pretty well known that the winters of WWII were some of the worst on record. The 616 suit doesn't accomodate Cap for winter. It just looks silly.

The suit should look somewhat "real" to address real world elements, etc.

Also, in some of the threads there was a reference to Cap being a spysmasher. Cap worked for the US Army, not the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was the precursor to the CIA. He wasn't involved in spysmashing or anything. And if he was in the comics, it was only because the writers were uneducated about that issue in history.

As for pirate boots, I think he would better be served by having regular issue boots with red spats. The red gloves are fine. He should have pouches for various items that he would need on any war campaign. The wings on the helmet look crazy if they stick out. They would look a whole lot better stenciled on.

I think adding some real worled elements would really put this thing over the edge with some real historical information that is accurate. I think it'd be a pretty smart move not to make a mockery of what the real WWII vets did back then. Not to say that Cap would do that but the folks in Hollywood don't always know better.

Just my two cents.

Actually it wouldn't be a bad idea if Cap was a spysmasher, going on special missions. He has a mask, he's a mystery man, he wasn't only doing soldier work. And he would have had more chance catching a super-villain plot and facing Red Skull via a secret mission than on the battlefield.

[roach]

I don't know how to attach pics but the most recent rendering of CAP is great. The 616 suit won't work for a variety of reasons. One is that Cap was involved in the European theater of WWII and from most accounts he was involved in the storming of Normandy Beach. He wasn't one of the guys that parachuted into France behind enemy lines with the Airborne units like Easy Company in Band of Brothers.
I havent read anything that said he was at Normandy. The original comics however did have him fighting with the French resistance.

The D-Day landings were on June 6 right at the start of summer but the war lasted well into winter and it is pretty well known that the winters of WWII were some of the worst on record. The 616 suit doesn't accomodate Cap for winter. It just looks silly.
again Cap was more of a special forces asset than a grunt soldier. He got sent into special missions.

The suit should look somewhat "real" to address real world elements, etc.

Also, in some of the threads there was a reference to Cap being a spysmasher. Cap worked for the US Army, not the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was the precursor to the CIA. He wasn't involved in spysmashing or anything. And if he was in the comics, it was only because the writers were uneducated about that issue in history.
Thats funny because Captain America #1 specificly calls Cap a spysmasher...and considering they wrote the book in 1940 I think they knew a lot more about pre WW2 America than we do.

As for pirate boots, I think he would better be served by having regular issue boots with red spats. The red gloves are fine. He should have pouches for various items that he would need on any war campaign. The wings on the helmet look crazy if they stick out. They would look a whole lot better stenciled on.

I think adding some real worled elements would really put this thing over the edge with some real historical information that is accurate. I think it'd be a pretty smart move not to make a mockery of what the real WWII vets did back then. Not to say that Cap would do that but the folks in Hollywood don't always know better.

Just my two cents.

I dont see how Captain America would make a mockery of the WW2 vets as a large number of them read Cap while they were over there...and became fans. However if Idiana Jones can fight Nazis with a fedora and bullwhip I dont see why Cap cant be in his 616 costume fighting nazis

[Young Superman]

I wound not be against them using cap classic costume if looked like this.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3510/4030392528_9ed5edb134.jpg

[Webhead2006]

there is so many pros and cons on doing both classic/modern 616 suit and ultimates WW2 costume. To me i still think going ultimates ww2 with maybe a few modifications would be best. Then clasic used in present day and all that. But i am totally not against classic being used for the first avenger either.

[Young Superman]

I am the same way Webhead2006

[blackbyrd]

Roach is at it again...

Well...actually, here's the problem with writers...they don't usually follow what the guy before him wrote but the fact of the matter is that Cap has been drawn in many instances as being on the beach in Normandy. If he fought with the French resisance, that's fine too, except that Cap can't be everywhere at once.

The reality is that the guy who are writers may or may not have been students of history, just as many writers probably don't have a background in science which is why some comic stuff is so crazy it is just silly. So for the sake of argument, they ned to establish that Cap was in once place or another. Either he dropped in behind the lines or stomed the beach, etc. but he couldn't have done both. Something the writers may not know.

As for spysmashing, agin, this was a writer flub based on what Cap was supposed to be. He was not a member of OSS, he was US Army which is not the same mission. If you have any experience with the intelligence community, you may see the nuance. Spysmashing would imply he was in counter-intelligence and not a Super Soldier which is a different function mission. So, again, because a writer may have written it, it doesn't make sense.

I think it is pretty safe to say that hindsight is 20/20 which would imply that we may know more about what happened back then on grand scale than they id back then. I would argue that they knew more about what day to day life was like. They wouldn't have the benefit of archives, historians, the benefit of examining the events after they happened....

There are many aspects about Cap that are historically inaccurate and don't make sense. I'm saying, fix those things and this character has fanastic potential because of the subject matter.

Let's consider that after all the years that Cap has been in publication, the writers have never addressed several aspects about Cap that would really add great depth to the character. These include:

1) Rank - How is he a Captain if he enlisted and didn't get a commision, didn't got to college, etc. They say many times that he was a field marshall but this makes no sense based on the rank of Cap which is a junior officer in the Army, it's only an O-3. I would argue that the rank was honorary an not his actual rank, which would have been an E-2 or E-3 to begin with. Captain America’s rank has never been identified. Canon says that he enlisted in the US Army during World War II which would give him the rank of Grade-7, Private, Pvt. After graduation from Boot Camp, he would have attained the rank of Grade-6, Private First Class, Pfc. The commissioned officer rank of Captain, Officer-3 (O-3) generally requires a college degree. No where in canon has Steve Rogers attended or graduated from college.
2) Posse Comitatus Act - How does Cap actual function in CONUS when the Act states that the US military doesn't operate in law enforcement functions. They need to address this in the comics and movie.
3) Awards and Decorations - He list of awards and decorations has never been defined...

So, yeah, Marvel has lots to do to flesh out the character and history and canon...

I'm sure Roach will have lots to say. Sounds like Roach might be a militay officer with a Masters degree in History...

As for the suit...he has got to have a suit that looks contemporary with his fellow soldiers that addresses his need to carry stuff (pouches), his need to bave the elements (winter), and not look so silly. 616 just looks corny.

I would go with ultimates or a variant thereof.

Say no to pirate boots....vote yes to red spats!

[marvel-man74]

your on point with this version. I think that might be just what the uniform should look like. simple to construct and doesnt take away either.

[Sparky]

The commissioned officer rank of Captain, Officer-3 (O-3) generally requires a college degree. No where in canon has Steve Rogers attended or graduated from college.
Cap could have received his commission from the army OCS. A lot of officers in World War II were enlisted men without college educations who went through OCS.

[not_a_victim]

I'd like to see the Ultimate WWII costume and the 616 for the Cap movie, and then the modern Ultimate Cap costume for Avengers. I'm not sure why so many people are suggesting changes, but at the same time rejecting the Ultimate costume, which think works.

I do have a funny story.....

I shared in this thread that I made the Ultimate WWII Cap costume and wore it to work the Friday before Halloween. (if you notice on the corner of my desk is my Cap figure)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/co2/Mouser10-30-09.jpg

So, I had to give some presentations this past Monday. 3 of them, each one to a group of about 20 people. Well, my boss played a prank on me that I didn't know he had in store. Each time when he introduced me, he would say,
"I want to bring up our guest speaker. You may know him better as 'Captain America'".
And the he would immediately bring up that photo. It got a good laugh, and I acted embarrased, but to be honest, I thought it was pretty cool . LOL.

The truly sad thing is this: be prepared for a Cap that is this size in the movie. Marvel already prepped us for it in "The Incredible Hulk", when Emil Blonsky didn't get get physically larger after his first dose of SSS.

[Infinity9999x]

The truly sad thing is this: be prepared for a Cap that is this size in the movie. Marvel already prepped us for it in "The Incredible Hulk", when Emil Blonsky didn't get get physically larger after his first dose of SSS.

Yeah...probably not. Emil's a different beast, because what he took was not actually the SS serum, it was a cheap knockoff brand.

Even though Cap really isn't that well known in terms of the General Public, the gen. public are still going to expect him to have the Superhero look. Marvel's going to get a guy that's got that look.

Now, if you're expecting a Cap to look just like he is in the comics then you're fooling yourself because

A.) It's impossible most of the time to actually achieve the physical look of the incredibly over-muscled bodies in the comics

B.) The closest thing to it would be a bodybuilder, and last time I checked, they usually aren't the best actors

Chris Reeve wasn't as beefed up as Superman is sometimes depicted, yet he is still considered the Man of Steel. It's safe to expect a Cap that has a body like that, or Tom Welling in Smallvile, or a Ryan Reynolds. We'll get a tall guy who's still in good shape, but he just won't be huge.

[roach]

Roach is at it again...
Hey if I wasnt a pest I wouldnt call myself Roach..i'd be a ladybug or something


Well...actually, here's the problem with writers...they don't usually follow what the guy before him wrote but the fact of the matter is that Cap has been drawn in many instances as being on the beach in Normandy. If he fought with the French resisance, that's fine too, except that Cap can't be everywhere at once.
The french resistance story came from the creators...who created and wrote the character while WW2 was going on. This isnt a case of someone 20-30 years later writing the story.

The reality is that the guy who are writers may or may not have been students of history, just as many writers probably don't have a background in science which is why some comic stuff is so crazy it is just silly. So for the sake of argument, they ned to establish that Cap was in once place or another. Either he dropped in behind the lines or stomed the beach, etc. but he couldn't have done both. Something the writers may not know.

As for spysmashing, agin, this was a writer flub based on what Cap was supposed to be. He was not a member of OSS, he was US Army which is not the same mission. If you have any experience with the intelligence community, you may see the nuance. Spysmashing would imply he was in counter-intelligence and not a Super Soldier which is a different function mission. So, again, because a writer may have written it, it doesn't make sense.
At the time of WW2 there wasnt a central intelligence agency so each military branch had its own intelligence section..IE Army Intelligence. Cap's primary function was to act a s a spysmasher since he was created in 1940 and at the time there was a neutrality act that prevented America and its forces to enter the war.

I think it is pretty safe to say that hindsight is 20/20 which would imply that we may know more about what happened back then on grand scale than they id back then. I would argue that they knew more about what day to day life was like. They wouldn't have the benefit of archives, historians, the benefit of examining the events after they happened....

There are many aspects about Cap that are historically inaccurate and don't make sense. I'm saying, fix those things and this character has fanastic potential because of the subject matter.

Let's consider that after all the years that Cap has been in publication, the writers have never addressed several aspects about Cap that would really add great depth to the character. These include:

1) Rank - How is he a Captain if he enlisted and didn't get a commision, didn't got to college, etc. They say many times that he was a field marshall but this makes no sense based on the rank of Cap which is a junior officer in the Army, it's only an O-3. I would argue that the rank was honorary an not his actual rank, which would have been an E-2 or E-3 to begin with. Captain America’s rank has never been identified. Canon says that he enlisted in the US Army during World War II which would give him the rank of Grade-7, Private, Pvt. After graduation from Boot Camp, he would have attained the rank of Grade-6, Private First Class, Pfc. The commissioned officer rank of Captain, Officer-3 (O-3) generally requires a college degree. No where in canon has Steve Rogers attended or graduated from college.
The way I see it Steve Rogers tried to enlist and failed. He got taken into the supersoldier project. He then became Captain America and the guise of Private Steve Rogers while going on missions as Captain America. It is my hypothesis that he was given the rank of Captain and trained as an army officer during his pre Cap days...during the time they taught him to fight.
2) Posse Comitatus Act - How does Cap actual function in CONUS when the Act states that the US military doesn't operate in law enforcement functions. They need to address this in the comics and movie.
Because his job was to root out spies on american soil in 1940
3) Awards and Decorations - He list of awards and decorations has never been defined...

So, yeah, Marvel has lots to do to flesh out the character and history and canon...

I'm sure Roach will have lots to say. Sounds like Roach might be a militay officer with a Masters degree in History...
I am actually an enlisted member but I also studied alot about WW2 and Cap in preparation for a fanfic im writing that tells the story of what happened between Steve getting the SSS and putting on the costume

As for the suit...he has got to have a suit that looks contemporary with his fellow soldiers that addresses his need to carry stuff (pouches), his need to bave the elements (winter), and not look so silly. 616 just looks corny.
the 616 costume is corny because its suppose to look corny..what would a superhero suit from 1940 look like to us...corny. Why in 1940 before the states entered the war would they dress Steve up like a soldier? For all intents and purposes America was not going to join the war.

I would go with ultimates or a variant thereof.

Say no to pirate boots....vote yes to red spats!

Vote yes on Prop 616

[Webhead2006]

interesting post blackbyrd. And i agree emil in tih was a different take on SSS serum it wasnt the true one. So cap's SSS look and actions will probably be double of what we saw of emil after first injection.

[chris moore]

The SSS Blonsky took was more like the one Monroe and the 50's Cap took - resulted in the right abilities, but imperfectly, and led to irrationality and insanity

[afan]

Even though Cap really isn't that well known in terms of the General Public,


I strongly disagree.....
My nephew dressed in a Captain America costume and rode an appropriately decorated bike in a 4th of July parade last summer, and was immediately recognized by all.
It was fantatsic as every cop he passed came to attention and saluted him!

Now if you mean his origin, etc. then I would agree.

[Infinity9999x]

I strongly disagree.....
My nephew dressed in a Captain America costume and rode an appropriately decorated bike in a 4th of July parade last summer, and was immediately recognized by all.
It was fantatsic as every cop he passed came to attention and saluted him!

Now if you mean his origin, etc. then I would agree.

Compared to the "big three" Cap doesn't have a very big recognizability factor.

Batman/Spider-man/Superman are by far the most popular, and most iconic superheroes today. Everyone knows who they are, and Bats and Supes also have three of the most recognizable villains in popular fiction as well (Joker, Catwoman, and Lex Luthor.)

They've all had multiple live action movies/television series/animated series/video games made about them in the past thirty years.

Next on the list would probably be Wolverine and Hulk. And maybe even Iron Man because of the new movie.

Cap, as of now, is pretty low on the totem pole. Yeah, people kind of know who he is, but as far as being a cultural icon like Supes/Bats/Spidey, and even Wolverine, he's got nothing.

And it's not surprising. Just look at the other characters I've mentioned. In the past thirty years they've all had multiple movies made about them, all have had multiple popular cartoon series, (and a few have even had popular live-action series), as well as video games.

In short, they all have lots of exposure to the general public. Think of all the exposure Cap has gotten........yeah. That last time the general public heard his name was when he was killed off in the comics.

Hopefully this movie will change that.

[Rage]

I wound not be against them using cap classic costume if looked like this.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3510/4030392528_9ed5edb134.jpg

That is a cool looking picture. I would love to see that on the big screen... but think that the boots and gloves need to be toned down a bit (less flair on both) and I wouldn't doubt that they would give him more pouches on his belt and maybe even a side arm) THIS IS CLASSIC CAP...but I don't see it translating to the big screen without modifacations

[Rage]

While most people don't know anything about Captain America... most people do know OF Captain America. The term is everywhere in pop-culture. In the last year alone I can remember it being used in Generation Kill (repeatedly) and Life on Mars. If I showed someone a picture of Captain America...they would know who it was... THEY JUST WOULDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM.

[Infinity9999x]

While most people don't know anything about Captain America... most people do know OF Captain America. The term is everywhere in pop-culture. In the last year alone I can remember it being used in Generation Kill (repeatedly) and Life on Mars. If I showed someone a picture of Captain America...they would know who it was... THEY JUST WOULDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM.

Good point, his name is fairly recognizable, and most people realize who he is because...well, with his costume, it's kind of hard to mistake the guy for anything other than the Superhero that must be Captain America.

Still, in terms of pure recongizabiltiy factor, he's still not at the Superman/Batman/Spider-man level.

[Webhead2006]

totally i agree folks might know of the character, but dont know more of the finer details of things unlike spidey/bats/supes everyone knows the main points about them and the top foes and all that. Though with IM rocketing im to a more popular place in general audience and all that. I dont see why captain america wont be in the same place im was last year in 2011.

[Timstuff]

Compared to the "big three" Cap doesn't have a very big recognizability factor.

Batman/Spider-man/Superman are by far the most popular, and most iconic superheroes today. Everyone knows who they are, and Bats and Supes also have three of the most recognizable villains in popular fiction as well (Joker, Catwoman, and Lex Luthor.)

They've all had multiple live action movies/television series/animated series/video games made about them in the past thirty years.

Next on the list would probably be Wolverine and Hulk. And maybe even Iron Man because of the new movie.

Cap, as of now, is pretty low on the totem pole. Yeah, people kind of know who he is, but as far as being a cultural icon like Supes/Bats/Spidey, and even Wolverine, he's got nothing.

And it's not surprising. Just look at the other characters I've mentioned. In the past thirty years they've all had multiple movies made about them, all have had multiple popular cartoon series, (and a few have even had popular live-action series), as well as video games.

In short, they all have lots of exposure to the general public. Think of all the exposure Cap has gotten........yeah. That last time the general public heard his name was when he was killed off in the comics.

Hopefully this movie will change that.

He needs a cartoon show.

[afan]

Good point, his name is fairly recognizable, and most people realize who he is because...well, with his costume, it's kind of hard to mistake the guy for anything other than the Superhero that must be Captain America.

Still, in terms of pure recongizabiltiy factor, he's still not at the Superman/Batman/Spider-man level.

Which is why the costume is of paramount concern.........

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/co2/Mouser10-30-09.jpg

Though I greatly admire the passion, the attention to detail, the admiration for this iteration, and the skill of the costume maker, I am quite sure that the "general public" reaction would be ...."who are you supposed to be?"

While this guy will get........

http://costumzee.com/view/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/captain_america.jpg

"Hey it's Captain America!"

[Triad]

^ And that is is just plain sad! :csad:
(By the way, you did a hellva job on that Ult. WWII costume co2!)

[afan]

^ And that is is just plain sad! :csad:
(By the way, you did a hellva job on that Ult. WWII costume co2!)

Not really, it's just all about recognition. Putting the title character in the more obscure iteration will confuse the GA.

[Brian Braddock]

Which is why the costume is of paramount concern.........

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/co2/Mouser10-30-09.jpg

Though I greatly admire the passion, the attention to detail, the admiration for this iteration, and the skill of the costume maker, I am quite sure that the "general public" reaction would be ...."who are you supposed to be?"

While this guy will get........

http://costumzee.com/view/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/captain_america.jpg

"Hey it's Captain America!"

I'm pretty sure that the audience will know it's Captain America regardless of what incarnation of costume he's wearing given that they've each walked into the cinema and asked for a ticket for 'Captain America'. :cwink:

Same goes with adverts, teasers and trailers; the words 'Captain America' wont be far behind on any of 'em. So trust me, they'll know what his name is.

Therefore, the recognisability factor isnt an issue for me. No, it's the fact that Cap isnt as ingrained into the general public consciousness in parts outside of the U.S. that worries me.

Many people may well see the trailer and just go 'Oh, some dude called Captain America...................I've no idea who that is'

[Triad]

Not really, it's just all about recognition. Putting the title character in the more obscure iteration will confuse the GA.I was referring to the sad photo that you put up for 616 Cap. :oldrazz:

[roach]

I'm pretty sure that the audience will know it's Captain America regardless of what incarnation of costume he's wearing given that they've each walked into the cinema and asked for a ticket for 'Captain America'. :cwink:

Same goes with adverts, teasers and trailers; the words 'Captain America' wont be far behind on any of 'em. So trust me, they'll know what his name is.

Therefore, the recognisability factor isnt an issue for me. No, it's the fact that Cap isnt as ingrained into the general public consciousness in parts outside of the U.S. that worries me.

Many people may well see the trailer and just go 'Oh, some dude called Captain America...................I've no idea who that is'

no one knew who Blade was, Hellboy, or Iron man yet audiences went to see it

[Young Superman]

Either one of these costume would be ok with me.
http://z.about.com/d/comicbooks/1/0/3/V/captainww2.jpghttp://img348.imageshack.us/img348/4929/074kr.jpg

[Brian Braddock]

I wasnt talking about it stopping people from going to see the movie, Roach; I was making a point that saying people wont recognise Cap if they see him in a different variation of his costume is moot if they dont have a clue who he is in the 1st place.

[afan]

I'm pretty sure that the audience will know it's Captain America regardless of what incarnation of costume he's wearing given that they've each walked into the cinema and asked for a ticket for 'Captain America'. :cwink:

Same goes with adverts, teasers and trailers; the words 'Captain America' wont be far behind on any of 'em. So trust me, they'll know what his name is.

Therefore, the recognisability factor isnt an issue for me. No, it's the fact that Cap isnt as ingrained into the general public consciousness in parts outside of the U.S. that worries me.

Many people may well see the trailer and just go 'Oh, some dude called Captain America...................I've no idea who that is'


So.................if a Superman film were produced and titled as such featuring either Red/Blue (or both) Superman, the GA would not be confused?

I wasnt talking about it stopping people from going to see the movie, Roach; I was making a point that saying people wont recognise Cap if they see him in a different variation of his costume is moot if they dont have a clue who he is in the 1st place.


To the GA, Captain America is very recognizable........in the 616 costume.

[afan]

I was referring to the sad photo that you put up for 616 Cap. :oldrazz:

I see, and you're absolutely right........I was using it as visual hyperbole to demonstrate my point; that the identity of the very well made costume may be ambiguous to the GA, while the saddest 616 costume I could find is clearly Captain America!

[Brian Braddock]

So.................if a Superman film were produced and titled as such featuring either Red/Blue (or both) Superman, the GA would not be confused?

It's not a matter of mere confusion though, you were talking about recognisability - you were saying that no one would know who the guy is meant to be if he's wearing a costume that isnt 616.

Anyways, confused or not, they'd still know it was a Superman movie for the same reasons that I stated before for a Cap one.

To the GA, Captain America is very recognizable........in the 616 costume.


You didnt really read my post, did you?

He might well be 'very recognisable' in the States, but then I wasnt talking about the States, was I? I was talking about the GA outside of America where Cap isnt really that well known.

[afan]

It's not a matter of mere confusion though, you were talking about recognisability - you were saying that no one would know who the guy is meant to be if he's wearing a costume that isnt 616.

Anyways, confused or not, they'd still know it was a Superman movie for the same reasons that I stated before for a Cap one.




You didnt really read my post, did you?

He might well be 'very recognisable' in the States, but then I wasnt talking about the States, was I? I was talking about the GA outside of America where Cap isnt really that well known.

My bad if I misunderstood, but in the post I quoted, you made no mention of the GA outside of America.

That being said........
I wouldn't pretend to put Cap on the same global recognition scale as say.... Superman, but I respectfully think you underestimate it's strength.

[Brian Braddock]

No worries dude, but I thought the 'general public consciousness in parts outside of the U.S.' part of my post was pretty clear.

Ah well, no harm, no foul. :up:

But as for me underestimating Cap's recognistion outside of the U.S. - I actually live outside the U.S. whereas you live in the U.S. (Norwood - would that be Massachusetts?)

So respectfully, I'd ask you who, out of the 2 of us, is in the better position to judge? ;)

[Rich Santoro]

Well... we all know that GA means just America.... right???

I have say that the costume does not have to be spot on. There are variations of the classic 616 costume, and I highly doubt that choosing one over the other would cause any confusion to the GA (America or otherwise). Even picking the modern Ultimate would be fine, because for those who do know of him in name or actually in character... the colors and motif are there. A star on the chest, the shield, red white and blue, gloves and boots... PLUS the movie title... it will all add up fine.

BB and TDK changed Batman's costume from the '89 film and its sequels, but no one was walking around scratching his head. The X-Men had black padded leather suits. It worked fine. Wolverine had no costume at all in his film... but the claws, chops, and wild'ish hair was there. I am not saying 'DO NOT USE THE 616 COSTUME"... I am just saying that we don't need to consider ourselves caught up by the false limitation, that it will hinder the success of the film should another design be used.

What was confusing for people with preconceived notions about a hero, and did damage the films success, was the strange cerebral story in the 2003 Hulk. The story is FAR more important.

[afan]

No worries dude, but I thought the 'general public consciousness in parts outside of the U.S.' part of my post was pretty clear.

Ah well, no harm, no foul. :up:

But as for me underestimating Cap's recognistion outside of the U.S. - I actually live outside the U.S. whereas you live in the U.S. (Norwood - would that be Massachusetts?)

So respectfully, I'd ask you who, out of the 2 of us, is in the better position to judge? ;)

Yup, "Tax-achussets" as we lovingly refer to it:cwink:

Well judging by your your avatar I'm guessing you are in Great Britain........use to be these types of conversations were across cubicles and not oceans...... amazing thing this internet.

Anyways I am corresponding with someone outside of the U.S., and it seems you are very familiar with Captain America so ...........are you that unique?:yay:

[Spider-Fan]

While I don't think Captain America should be an America rocks propoganda film, we do have to remember that Steve Rogers joined the military and participated in the project that created Captain America out of patriotism, and during the era he tried enlisting in WW2, the US had a high sense of patriotism. While I don't think the film should be exclusively about these things, you also can't ignore them. They are a part of who Captain America is at his core. Steve Rogers essentially gave up everything for the land he loved, and it needs to be present in the film. Now, Captain America is a man out of time, and the changes between the world as it was in his time and how it is now needs to be developed through Captain America and the Avengers film, but we do have to understand the era Steve Rogers grew up in. It is equally important to making a successful transition from the comic to the screen.

Like I said, the film doesn't need to be 100% about American patriotism, and I think it would fail as a film if it was. The film has other things it needs to do, but patriotism is a part of who Cap is and it needs to be part of him becoming Captain America.

As for the costume, a cross between his classic 40's costume and the Ultimates costume I think would be fine. Maybe go with the Ultimate design, but make the colors a bit brighter.

[Rage]

As a fan living outside the United States (and a HUGE Captain America fan) and as someone who went to college in the US... I can say that the GA in both Canada and the US have about the same general knowledge of who Captain America is... which I stated before... they know OF him... but nothing really ABOUT him.

That being said... a trailer and poster with his name splashed ALL over it and some actual screen time (verbally) in IM2 and Thor will really help people to understand who this character is...

[Spider-Fan]

I think Marvel will develop Cap between IM2 and Thor. We've already had some of the early mentionings of him in TIH, and I think we'll only continue to hear more about him leading up to the Cap film. He is essentially the primary character in the Avengers, so it is only right we build up to him. I can't wait to see the characters interact in the same film. The relationship between Cap-Thor-Stark has always been amongst my favorites in the realm of comics, and I hope RDJ, Hemmsworth, and whomever plays Cap can get that chemistry and relationships right.

[Timstuff]

Something that I think would be interesting is how Cap will probably be in his mid 20's, even though he's technically much older than Tony Stark. Whoever portrays him will have to have a very commanding presence and mature demeanor if we're to believe that he'd have the respect of both Stark and Thor despite being fairly young physically, so I hope they can get it right!

[Brian Braddock]

Well... we all know that GA means just America.... right???


I sincerely hope you're joking there, Rich. If not, that's ^^^ an incredibly myopic way of looking at things.

I mean, what, is International Box office $$$$ not a factor? I dare say Marvel dont probably share that attitude.

Yup, "Tax-achussets" as we lovingly refer to it:cwink:

Well judging by your your avatar I'm guessing you are in Great Britain........use to be these types of conversations were across cubicles and not oceans...... amazing thing this internet.

Anyways I am corresponding with someone outside of the U.S., and it seems you are very familiar with Captain America so ...........are you that unique?:yay:

Yeah, the internets a wonderful thing.

I'm certainly not unique, but I do have the advantage of reading comic books since I was knee high - unlike [sadly] the greater percentage of the U.K. who wouldnt have a clue who Cap is as they were probably brought up on the Beano rather than American comics.

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed Timestuff. That is what makes casting Cap so difficult. He needs to be younger, but command the respect of those far older. This is not easy to find, and I would figure be one thing Steve has to do in the Avengers film. Get their respect.

I think one great way to show this symbolically would be Thor's Hammer. Only worthy mortals can weild it, and Cap has in the past. So, perhaps have someone else (like Tony) try to weild it and fail, while Steve uses it at a dramatic point in the film. I think that would be one great way to symbolically show Steve getting the respect of the others. Not the only way to do it, but it is certainly a good way.

[Rich Santoro]

I sincerely hope you're joking there, Rich. If not, that's ^^^ an incredibly myopic way of looking at things.

I mean, what, is International Box office $$$$ not a factor? I dare say Marvel dont probably share that attitude.

I am sorry that the sarcasm was not apparent... I should have added a [/snark] tag. :yay:

[Infinity9999x]

no one knew who Blade was, Hellboy, or Iron man yet audiences went to see it

Exactly. The ad campaign, and overall look of the film is what's really going to get people to turn out for this movie.

[sabetoonth]

if they find i nice midpoint ill be happy

[Infinity9999x]

ironman had some recognition he had a show remember?

Good point. IM even had more exposure than Cap has had so far. I mean, heck, the guy can't even get his own cartoon show? But hopefully the Cap movie will be able to do for Cap wat the Iron Man movie did for Iron man.

[Webhead2006]

i am sure like im popularity boosting cause of his film cap will have the same thing.

[Timstuff]

Agreed Timestuff. That is what makes casting Cap so difficult. He needs to be younger, but command the respect of those far older. This is not easy to find, and I would figure be one thing Steve has to do in the Avengers film. Get their respect.

I think one great way to show this symbolically would be Thor's Hammer. Only worthy mortals can weild it, and Cap has in the past. So, perhaps have someone else (like Tony) try to weild it and fail, while Steve uses it at a dramatic point in the film. I think that would be one great way to symbolically show Steve getting the respect of the others. Not the only way to do it, but it is certainly a good way.

Sounds good to me. :up:

[chris moore]

Aren't we deviating a little from the topic and getting a bit too into the look of the actor here?

Only thing I really have to say on the subject is that Hellboy went faithful and the look totally sprung from the comics, so those who liked the outrageous look of him in the ads could pick up the source material if they wanted an know what they were looking at. Same for Iron Man. Blade, not quite as much in terms of origins and weapons. But the look was close enough to what was already in the comics to have the same effect. The same approach needs to be taken with Cap to ensure that his visual has enough impact that people who may know nothing or next to nothing about him will still immediately associate him from 'that guy we heard about on the news that was for some reason making it onto all the american talk shows and news roundups'

[afan]

Good point. IM even had more exposure than Cap has had so far. I mean, heck, the guy can't even get his own cartoon show? But hopefully the Cap movie will be able to do for Cap wat the Iron Man movie did for Iron man.

Let's set the record straight here.......
Captain America was featured in a 1940s serial, a TV series, an early 90's motion picture, and his name was consciously used based on it's celebrated connotation in "Easy Rider" for the main character!

I'ld say that was a lot more exposure than Iron Man, and demonstrates a common familiarality with the character that spans decades.

[blackbyrd]

Roach and all,

Like I said, just because the writers wrote it doesn’t mean they did any homework before hand. It just means they wrote it. I would argue we have more info after hindsight than the folks did who were living it on a grand scale. One a low scale, day to day basis or anecdotally they would have more knowledge.

You are correct. There was no CIA. There was the Office of Strategic Service (OSS), the pre-cursor of the CIA. Though the Army had an MI (military intel) arm, being a counter spy is not something done out in the open, it is done in secret. I don’t know how Caps suit is subtle in anyway. I would say the whole purpose of Cap was to be used as a propaganda symbol and element. I would even say that if Dr. Erksine were not murdered by the German agent, and the SSS were given to a whole bunch of soldiers, there would be no costumes. They’d be soldiers with regular gear. It was only because Cap was the only one that he was treated specially.

Cap didn’t get involved in the war effort (read: fighting) until after Pearl Harbor. I would say he spent most of that time training. In actuality, he was probably a US Army SPECWAR type that has to undergo all types of indoc and training. This ould include Airborne, Survival, Swimming, diving, language (even though there is no mention of his language ability), combat techniques, etc. And, no, just because he was a great athlete, soldier, doesn’t mean he did everything in half time, despite what the writers said. It just isn’t congruent with what the SSS gave him. It made him an Olympic level athlete. It didn’t make him smarter. I would argue that he was a smart guy but no genius. I mean, if he was, wouldn’t he have gotten a scholarship to Harvard if he was. He was just a freelance artist.

I would argue Cap was allowed to enlist after he was given the SSS which made him only a Private. I would say his rank of Cap is only honorary. There are mentions of him becoming field marshal but this doesn’t seem accurate, no one is going to make a junior officer (captain/O-3) a field marshal in the Great War. The other reaons why his title would be honorary is that he is never promoted to Major, LtCol., Col, BGEN, MGEN, LGEN, GEN….With all he has done for the country, I would think he would have been promoted. Now, I understand that none of those titles would have the same ring as Cap Am., but there should be some kind of explanation of this in canon, no? Like I said, the writers don’t really think about those things when they write, they just write but in some cases, they just don’t know any better. Like when they write about science-fi, they don’t have any basis in science at all.

As for Cap rooting out spies on American soil? Are we talking Japanese spies? “The Posse Comitatus Act was enacted in 1878; substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.” Only the USCG is exempt during peacetime. So technically, Cap can’t act on US soil. The writers never bothered to flech this out or explain I away. As an FYI, the CIA doesn’t spy on US soil. The FBI is tasked with counter-spy activity on US soil. It is illegl to spy on US citizens.

I applaud your service and I am sure everyone else on here does too. If you are writing a fan fic, I would suggest fleshing out the science of the SSS. Maybe look at the Gatorade Sport Science Institute for the science of athletics. I would suggest exploring the Posse Comitatus Act, I would explore the rank issue as WWII era Army ranks are different than they are now. No where in canon does it ever say Cap got a commision, it just says he was enlisted. And it never says he went to college. I would explore his training with real world stuff like what the Green Berets do as that would be the closest thing to Cap that there is in the Army. His training would not be akin to the Seals, PJ’s, Force Recon, USCG Rescue Swimmers, USAF CCT, etc….I would say Green Berets would be closest.

His suit is corney because that is what artist drew back in the day. Look at Batman’s original suit. Corny. I would say that his suit now is more accurate to what it should be. No one would believe that a regular guy can do what Bats does with spandex. I think he has to have an edge in gadgets, kevlar, weapons, etc. This is exactly why Cap needs to have a “real” suit that mirrors the suits of the WWII era while still having the elements of the star, red, white, blue, shield, etc. He should have red spats, like all the other soldiers had spats (green), he should have a helmet. What soldier goes to war with no helment? He should have pouches to carry stuff, have a suit for the WWII winters, use a Tommy gun, use grenades, have a canteen (I assume he gets thirsty- he is in war after all), just basic real world stuff. He should also have his rank ensignia somehwere on his suit like everyone else does.

The writers missed a lot.

I also think that he is probably highly decorated and he gotten many medals and awards (including black ones). He must have a Class A and Mess Dress version of his suit for formal occasions likewhen he gets his awards from the Commander in Chief, Pentagon Officials, etc. The only issue is that he needs to have a mask. I would be ok with his shoulder insignia being the round shied which identifies him as a lone Super Soldier on his dress uniforms. I wouldn’t even be opposed to having his own versin of dress uniforms. I think it would be so cool to see Cap at a military Ball all dressed in his own special Mess Dress with bow tie/tuxedo being honored for bravery or something. Just a really cool image, I think…

As for America not going to join the war, I would say they always knew they would, it was just a matter of when. I would also say that joining a war doesn’t mean only fighting, it means supplying combatants with weapons, which the US did with England for a long time before Pearl Harbor.

My two cents.

[blackbyrd]

After Cap get sfrozen and enters the modern era, I think a great place to look at for great designs for Cap's uniform is the US Army Natick Soldier Center. Goole the website.

It is where the Army does testing on all new equipment and battle dress uniforms (BDU) as well as physiology testing, etc. This would be the type of place where a real Cap Am. would be tested with hoses to breath into while on a treadmill, etc.

Again, just an ounce of reality would make this property, the coolest in the Marvel Universe....

[Brian Braddock]

I am sorry that the sarcasm was not apparent... I should have added a [/snark] tag. :yay:

Ah, right. Gotcha Rich.

:D


Aren't we deviating a little from the topic and getting a bit too into the look of the actor here?



You're right - I've certainly been guilty of that on here of late so I apologise unreservedly to everyone for straying off-topic.

[Rich Santoro]

Ah, right. Gotcha Rich.

:D


Cool... I didn't want Captain Britain coming down on me. :cwink:

[Brian Braddock]

Lol

:D

[Stripesy Strip]

Either one of these costume would be ok with me.
http://z.about.com/d/comicbooks/1/0/3/V/captainww2.jpghttp://img348.imageshack.us/img348/4929/074kr.jpg

Like I said earlier in the thread, the one on the left could be ceremonial garbs when posing in front of the press and when he go fight on the field, he could wear the outfit on the right.

[Stripesy Strip]

Roach is at it again...

Well...actually, here's the problem with writers...they don't usually follow what the guy before him wrote but the fact of the matter is that Cap has been drawn in many instances as being on the beach in Normandy. If he fought with the French resisance, that's fine too, except that Cap can't be everywhere at once.

The reality is that the guy who are writers may or may not have been students of history, just as many writers probably don't have a background in science which is why some comic stuff is so crazy it is just silly. So for the sake of argument, they ned to establish that Cap was in once place or another. Either he dropped in behind the lines or stomed the beach, etc. but he couldn't have done both. Something the writers may not know.

As for spysmashing, agin, this was a writer flub based on what Cap was supposed to be. He was not a member of OSS, he was US Army which is not the same mission. If you have any experience with the intelligence community, you may see the nuance. Spysmashing would imply he was in counter-intelligence and not a Super Soldier which is a different function mission. So, again, because a writer may have written it, it doesn't make sense.

I think it is pretty safe to say that hindsight is 20/20 which would imply that we may know more about what happened back then on grand scale than they id back then. I would argue that they knew more about what day to day life was like. They wouldn't have the benefit of archives, historians, the benefit of examining the events after they happened....

There are many aspects about Cap that are historically inaccurate and don't make sense. I'm saying, fix those things and this character has fanastic potential because of the subject matter.

Let's consider that after all the years that Cap has been in publication, the writers have never addressed several aspects about Cap that would really add great depth to the character. These include:

1) Rank - How is he a Captain if he enlisted and didn't get a commision, didn't got to college, etc. They say many times that he was a field marshall but this makes no sense based on the rank of Cap which is a junior officer in the Army, it's only an O-3. I would argue that the rank was honorary an not his actual rank, which would have been an E-2 or E-3 to begin with. Captain America’s rank has never been identified. Canon says that he enlisted in the US Army during World War II which would give him the rank of Grade-7, Private, Pvt. After graduation from Boot Camp, he would have attained the rank of Grade-6, Private First Class, Pfc. The commissioned officer rank of Captain, Officer-3 (O-3) generally requires a college degree. No where in canon has Steve Rogers attended or graduated from college.
2) Posse Comitatus Act - How does Cap actual function in CONUS when the Act states that the US military doesn't operate in law enforcement functions. They need to address this in the comics and movie.
3) Awards and Decorations - He list of awards and decorations has never been defined...

So, yeah, Marvel has lots to do to flesh out the character and history and canon...

I'm sure Roach will have lots to say. Sounds like Roach might be a militay officer with a Masters degree in History...

As for the suit...he has got to have a suit that looks contemporary with his fellow soldiers that addresses his need to carry stuff (pouches), his need to bave the elements (winter), and not look so silly. 616 just looks corny.

I would go with ultimates or a variant thereof.

Say no to pirate boots....vote yes to red spats!

Why can't he be both soldier and work for intelligence? It seems to me someone like him wouldn't work the same way as a simple soldier. He would be involved in secret missions. Where else could he meet Red Skull and other Nazi villains?

[Rich Santoro]

^ I have to agree... there is no reason to apply conventional thinking nor traditional military operation and protocol to Cap.

[Stripesy Strip]

Yea he's a VERY special case.

Like Red Skull is a VERY special case.

Also the fact that Cap has a mask and they want to keep him a secret weapon of sort, they would use him in special circomstances.

[Nightwing]

Still like the suit Drz posted awhile back.

[blackbyrd]

I'd say the reason he is not involved in special secret/clandestine missions is because he doesn't work for OSS, wears his under wear out, and has possibly the LOUDEST costume ever. Not exactly stealth.

The reason why he does have such a LOUD costume is because the USG wanted to use him as a propoganda tool. You can't use him as a propoganda tool if what he does is secretive. If that were the case, no one would know what he did.

I think you have to apply some conventional wisdom to him based on the reality of his LOUD costume and symbolic status....

Pretty simple really...

[Chris Wallace]

I'd say the reason he is not involved in special secret/clandestine missions is because he doesn't work for OSS, wears his under wear out, and has possibly the LOUDEST costume ever. Not exactly stealth.

The reason why he does have such a LOUD costume is because the USG wanted to use him as a propoganda tool. You can't use him as a propoganda tool if what he does is secretive. If that were the case, no one would know what he did.

I think you have to apply some conventional wisdom to him based on the reality of his LOUD costume and symbolic status....

Pretty simple really...
Translation: No muted color scheme or commando look.

[Stripesy Strip]

I'd say the reason he is not involved in special secret/clandestine missions is because he doesn't work for OSS, wears his under wear out, and has possibly the LOUDEST costume ever. Not exactly stealth.

The reason why he does have such a LOUD costume is because the USG wanted to use him as a propoganda tool. You can't use him as a propoganda tool if what he does is secretive. If that were the case, no one would know what he did.

I think you have to apply some conventional wisdom to him based on the reality of his LOUD costume and symbolic status....

Pretty simple really...

That's a good point, actually.

But I think to get at Red Skull or Baron Zemo, he had to be part of special missions that no other soldiers would be part of.

[Chris Wallace]

He didn't do that through subtlety. He caught their attention with his theatrics, thereby drawing them out.

[blackbyrd]

Hence, propoganda and PsyOps...

If Marvel actually approached this character for a more relaistic standpoint, I think he could be bigger than Batman or Spidey or Supes...

The only real drawback to Cap is he is perfect....most people like flawed characters, that's why Spidey, Wolverine, and Batman are so beloved. They are almost anti-hero types.

If they flecsh out some of the points I posted earlier...then...

[Infinity9999x]

Hence, propoganda and PsyOps...

If Marvel actually approached this character for a more relaistic standpoint, I think he could be bigger than Batman or Spidey or Supes...

The only real drawback to Cap is he is perfect....most people like flawed characters, that's why Spidey, Wolverine, and Batman are so beloved. They are almost anti-hero types.

If they flecsh out some of the points I posted earlier...then...

I agree about Bats/Wolvie, but Spidey is most definitley not an anti-hero. Spider-man was pretty much the first truly rateable, young, Superhero type.

Now, I see what you're saying about Cap though. However, I think the most interesting part of the story for him will be when he's unfrozen. Say what you want about the Ultimates, but the early scenes of Cap trying to deal with being in the 21st century were very well done. Especially the first time he goes to visit Gale.

Also, you could get further drama out of playing up the angle of Cap coming face to face with the reality that the country he's fighting for may not be as blameless as he thought it was back in the 1940's. But instead of making Cap a close-minded militant type like he is in the Ultimates, keep his 616 personality, so he, in the end, stands up for the ideals of America, and doesn't just go along with what the government tells him to do.

For this movie, since it's his origin per say, I would take up issue with Cap feeling the pressures of having EVERYONE looking up to him, and the struggles of always having to meet the expectations of being the perfect superhero. Not only that, but you could also explore his learning curve. Cap made mistakes in his early missions. The Wolverine flashback issue Chris Claremont and Jim Lee wrote show us an inexperienced Cap who Wolverine has to help out when Cap gets in over his head with the Hand.

[Rage]

Cap is not perfect. The guy has survivor guilt over the fact that he survived WWII and alot of the soldiers he fought side by side with didn't make it back. He has survivor's guilt over surviving when Bucky ultimately gave his life to save both Cap and America.

He is a man out of time who sees the ideals he held/holds so dear being bastardized by the very country that he loves so much. This is anything but a simple or perfect character.

[Rage]

Double post

[scatterax]

Maybe his flaw is that in the beginning of the movie, every1 thinks he's the perfect hero. that he fails to catch the red skull, so he has to deal with all the people around him that thought he was a here now thinking he's just waisted money. So he has to deal with these crazy expectations and doubts. (kinda like every american president has)

maybe when he gets frozen it's cuz he disobeys orders and goes in after the skull alone w/o troops. So in avengers he has to live with the guilt of the other heros thinking he's flawless and that he got frozen doing something brave when in reality he knows it was because he just got hot headed and disobeyed orders.

-edit, so he basically just has troubles living up to the hype, and that's where his personal drama comes from. on top of the whole saving the world angle, that's allot of pressure.

[scatterax]

Cap is not perfect. The guy has survivor guilt over the fact that he survived WWII and alot of the soldiers he fought side by side with didn't make it back. He has survivor's guilt over surviving when Bucky ultimately gave his life to save both Cap and America.

He is a man out of time who sees the ideals he held/holds so dear being bastardized by the very country that he loves so much. This is anything but a simple or perfect character.

hmm, interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. it could work.

[Infinity9999x]

Cap is not perfect. The guy has survivor guilt over the fact that he survived WWII and alot of the soldiers he fought side by side with didn't make it back. He has survivor's guilt over surviving when Bucky ultimately gave his life to save both Cap and America.

He is a man out of time who sees the ideals he held/holds so dear being bastardized by the very country that he loves so much. This is anything but a simple or perfect character.

This is basically what I was tying to get at, but Rage put it in a much more succinct way.

Not only that, but Cap is the ultimate "man out of time" story. The kind of modern "Rip Van Winkle." He went to sleep and woke up 60 years later to find out that literally almost everything in his world had changed.

The character has lots of great ideas you can explore with him.

But for the first movie, since it's going to be set mostly in WW2, I would focus on the pressure he gets from everyone expecting him to be perfect.

[roach]

I'd say the reason he is not involved in special secret/clandestine missions is because he doesn't work for OSS, wears his under wear out, and has possibly the LOUDEST costume ever. Not exactly stealth.

The reason why he does have such a LOUD costume is because the USG wanted to use him as a propoganda tool. You can't use him as a propoganda tool if what he does is secretive. If that were the case, no one would know what he did.

I think you have to apply some conventional wisdom to him based on the reality of his LOUD costume and symbolic status....

Pretty simple really...

Army Intelligence also sent people on secret missions too

[louiebling$]

Agreed Timestuff. That is what makes casting Cap so difficult. He needs to be younger, but command the respect of those far older. This is not easy to find, and I would figure be one thing Steve has to do in the Avengers film. Get their respect.

I think one great way to show this symbolically would be Thor's Hammer. Only worthy mortals can weild it, and Cap has in the past. So, perhaps have someone else (like Tony) try to weild it and fail, while Steve uses it at a dramatic point in the film. I think that would be one great way to symbolically show Steve getting the respect of the others. Not the only way to do it, but it is certainly a good way.

Hit the nail in the wall with this post SF :up:

[blackbyrd]

I agree that US Army did send MI guys on secret missions, they just weren't dressed in bright blue underwear that screamed, "here I am, the great American hope/hero!!"

Honestly, you know what I am saying is spot on...just go with it, Roach...

What about the other points I made? You blew right by those!

[chris moore]

OH MY GOD! Not this again! Hyper realism, propaganda tool, multiple uniforms, couple people spouting about how the real army works and how Cap can't possibly have been here or there.

Shall we just all send a group e-mail to Marvel to beg them to spend millions of dollars on a documentary and be done with it? Cos that's the level of boring crap that would end up on screen if the writers and designers followed half of the arguments on here lately.

Muted colours - boring!
5 minutes of screentime used up on Cap going to college because that what you had to do to be a real Captain - boring!
Cap only being involved in frontline battles because he's army not OSS - boring!
Them actually dedicating time in this movie to stating and showing that Cap will be used at home as a propaganda tool to increase recruitment, and on those occasions he will wear his costume rather than a more practical uniform - boring!

Let's clear it all up shall we
1) Project rebirth: Overseen by representatives from all the (then) branches of the US military. That 'council' is headed up by an Army General however, which makes the Army overall responsible for its success and security.
2) The test subject is stated in the file to be given a special commission by the President if the process is a success s that subject is to be the leader of the battalion. This is under the assumption that the test subject scored off the charts in all psychological, tactical and information retention tests before undergoing the procedure - which of course he would because they need the perfect mental candidate as well. This gives him the rank of Captain across the board of all the the branches, but has special security clearance well above his "paygrade"
3) Because of those mental attributes, and the successful enhancement of his physical status, Steve Rogers undergoes intense training for three months under instructors from USMC, Navy, Army, and Aeronautical Divisional (precursor to Air Force). He also has martial arts instructors from several disciplines, and receives training from David Stirling (who is the man that started the formation of the SAS in 1941).
4) Originally Project: Rebirth was intended to produce a battalion superSOLDIERS to head up the front line. With the death of Dr Erskine, its purpose now becomes to make the best use of their one success as possible, and to involve all of the American public by making Cap something more than a better soldier. Something everyone can be awed by - a superHERO as well as a supersoldier (he is still military afterall). Captain Rogers is now given a codename to protect his identity, because his exploits will become legend and the enemy will make it a special priority to remove him as a threat. This puts everyone he knows in danger, and every soldier who works with him in increased danger. But put him in a mask and give him a codename, and suddenly he's untouchable except when on the field. No one will be in excessive danger because Captain America only exists under fire.
5) If you're gonna put him in a mask and give him a codename, and he's the one success and the best there is anywhere. You damn well show it! Be proud! Give hope! Inspire! Sod propaganda photoshoots - who needs to waste time and resources shipping the most effective military tool available back home for a newspaper piece! Everyone everywhere will follow Captain America when they see the Red White and Blue launching through whatever stands in his way!
6) He's the best there is. The only one there is. He goes where he's needed and has trained with every area of the military, included OSS.

[Rich Santoro]

^ well put... VERY well put...

[roach]

I agree that US Army did send MI guys on secret missions, they just weren't dressed in bright blue underwear that screamed, "here I am, the great American hope/hero!!"

Honestly, you know what I am saying is spot on...just go with it, Roach...

What about the other points I made? You blew right by those!

I didnt know that I was supposed to debate your other points. I agree with Chris Moore's assessment.
There are secret missions and secret operatives. Example: Navy SEAL snipers shot the somali pirates.....Secret operatives since we dont know names or ranks of the snipers but the mission was all over the news. Captain America isnt a secret operative per se but his missions are.

[Young Superman]

I'd modify the WWII Ultimate Cap costume by making the gloves & boots red.

[Chris B]

If they don't use the WWII Ultimate Cap costume in The First Avenger: Captain America I would like them to use this:

http://www.brokenfrontier.com/userfiles/images/headlines/2009/jul/CaptainAmerica_Reborn_01_SecondPrinting.jpg

I like this. It keeps the overall 616 design intact while giving it a more military look.

[Young Superman]

I like this. It keeps the overall 616 design intact while giving it a more military look.

Agreed and like I said in a earlier post this could work in both the ww2 and the present eras.

[Timstuff]

IMO there should be a difference between his WW2 and modern costume. Technology has come a long way since WW2, and a world war 2 era uniform probably wouldn't hold up too well against modern munitions. Besides, that thing probably starts getting stinky after a while, so it makes sense for him to get a new one.

[Brian Braddock]

I agree, TS. It seems only natural that Cap's outfit would be updated using modern materials.

There are feasible expalnations they could give for doing so too. One being what I've stated above - taking advantage of advances in material technology. Another could be that Cap's old costume either gets damaged in the explosion or suffers irreprable wear and tear from being on ice for so many years.

[chris moore]

Nothing stopping them using the same aesthetic design in the modern age, but changing the materials its composed of though is there

[Brian Braddock]

No, nothing stopping them at all - it would be like an upgrade.

[Webhead2006]

totally, though i still do like the idea myself to go with ultimates ww2 suit and when cap is found its in rough shape. So then shield/stark design a new suit for him in avengers. Where it looks like classic/modern suit made of special fabrics and slight protection and all that.

[Young Superman]

If they go the route you guys a talking about here's my picks:

WWII:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3510/4030392528_9ed5edb134.jpg


Modern Day:

http://www.fantastic-four.nl/Captain_America6.jpg

[Brian Braddock]

God, I hate that scale mail - Cap looks like a newly born chick in that last pic, for Pete's sake; John Cassaday has a lot to answer for.

Chain mail all the way.

[Young Superman]

If they go the route you guys a talking about here's my picks:

WWII:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3510/4030392528_9ed5edb134.jpg


Modern Day:

http://www.fantastic-four.nl/Captain_America6.jpg

Fixed did not really like that look either BB. Want with classic Cap instead because I can't find a good pic of the Chainnail suit.

[RogueDK]

God, I hate that scale mail - Cap looks like a newly born chick in that last pic, for Pete's sake; John Cassaday has a lot to answer for.

Chain mail all the way.
I've always considered it chain mail regardless of how poorly the artist might've rendered the image to others.

I've heard many back in the day calling them fish scales or feathers. :hehe:

It's chain mail.

[roach]

John Buscema for the win

[Brian Braddock]

John Buscema wins everything.

[marcvader]

^^^That's always looked like scale mail with varying sizes of scales, depending on the artist, to me. I do like the understated versions from the early days.

[RogueDK]

^^^That's always looked like scale mail with varying sizes of scales, depending on the artist, to me. I do like the understated versions from the early days.
As do I. We don't have to make every hero's attire so much like The Dark Knight's was.

Some would think that there's some shame in suspending disbelief when it comes to a comic book character's look. I wouldn't mind Cap having the scale/chain mail look what have you.

[Denny67]

Doesn't work for me.:dry:

Agreed. I hate that costume. Going black is a total cop-out.

[jab1118]

I never liked or understood the chain mail scales whatever. It doesn't even make sense for ww2. Christ it wouldn't even make sense if cap cane from the revolutionary war. What is it gonna do? Just make it some sort of padded smooth material the scales look wierd

[bunk]

I do like the idea of some sort of tough looking texture. The scales tend to erase the muscle definition, even in the comics. Hopefully something else.

[Steve Holt]

i liked the look of nite-owl's scales/feathers in the watchmen movie

[Rich Santoro]

^ Agreed... I commented in the past that the Nite Owl's look may be the best look for the texture of Cap's uniform

http://www.wheiliang.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/420px-nite_owl.jpg.

The Interesting thing, is that there is the dragon skin body armor used in he military that looks like Cap's scales. Cap was ahead of his time with the scale mail.

http://media.techeblog.com/images/dragonskin_8.jpg

[The Caped Knight]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2028/2072744611_a036b3a12f_o.jpg
http://greghornjudge.com/HTM_PAGES/01_marvel_comics_htms/all_other_marvel/Captain_America_Wash_DC.htm

[roach]

hmmmmm i'd be ok with that

[Webhead2006]

hopefully we will get some details in the coming months on what they plan for the costume.

[Young Superman]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2028/2072744611_a036b3a12f_o.jpg
http://greghornjudge.com/HTM_PAGES/01_marvel_comics_htms/all_other_marvel/Captain_America_Wash_DC.htm
I could see that.
P.S That pic is AWESOME!!!

[Compi716]

So here's a statue of Captain America in suit when Steve Rogers returns...
http://holdyourfireal.smugmug.com/STATUE-TOY-and-OTHER-COMPANIES/Kotobukiya/Avengers-Reborn-Captain/bdd24d9b/697139356_ypSvk-XL.jpg

Perhaps we'll see something like this? It's VERY classic, yet adds a bit more of a militaristic flair to the boots.

[Young Superman]

I like it.http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif

[roach]

the shield could be bigger but I like it

[jab1118]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2028/2072744611_a036b3a12f_o.jpg
http://greghornjudge.com/HTM_PAGES/01_marvel_comics_htms/all_other_marvel/Captain_America_Wash_DC.htm
The scales dont look to bad here but i still dont really want the. Maybe more subtle like a pattern on the material.

And why is Cap Hovering over a burning D.C. with what seems to be almost a smile on his face?

[Webhead2006]

not a bad statue.

[Brian Braddock]

the shield could be bigger but I like it

Personally, I dont know about that. Whenever I've seen Cap with a larger shield, it's always looked a little off to me. I get that it would offer more protection and all that [that's pretty much a given] but aesthetically, I much prefer a more modestly sized shield.

I think it comes from an old issue of Nomad as drawn by Clarke S. Hawbaker. USAgent was guesting and he draw his shield almost as large as John Walker. I kid you not. The stigma that image gave me has stuck in my mind to this day.

To each their own though, eh?

[roach]

well I think Cap's shield should at least cover his elbow

[Brian Braddock]

That's a damn fair point.

[chris moore]

2.5ft - that's the diameter it's said to be. And really it has to have a diameter that is at least 1.5x the length of Cap's arm from elbow to wrist just for gripping and weight balance across the arm when holding it

[Young Superman]

http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04a/marveljuly2009solits/21_CAPTAIN_AMERICA_POSTER_BOOK_1.jpg

Classic Cap all the way.

[Brian Braddock]

Cassadays interpretation of the classic costume is one of the more extreme interpretations. If he's only have gone a tad more 'traditional' with the way he draw the scale-mail, I definately wouldnt have any complaints.

[Young Superman]

IMO Here's what Cap should look like during WW2.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9278/captainamericai06.jpg

[RogueDK]

http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04a/marveljuly2009solits/21_CAPTAIN_AMERICA_POSTER_BOOK_1.jpg

Classic Cap all the way.
Win. :awesome:

[JamesBuchananWS]

You know with all that Under Armor does now for the military I wonder how that might look underneath a DragonSkin vest...

[Webhead2006]

probably very intersting. Now if they do decide to go with the scales look i am sure probably that dragonskin stuff will probably be used or used as a bases of how to make it look.

[Chris Wallace]

So here's a statue of Captain America in suit when Steve Rogers returns...
http://holdyourfireal.smugmug.com/STATUE-TOY-and-OTHER-COMPANIES/Kotobukiya/Avengers-Reborn-Captain/bdd24d9b/697139356_ypSvk-XL.jpg

Perhaps we'll see something like this? It's VERY classic, yet adds a bit more of a militaristic flair to the boots.

Not sure about the boots. And what's with all the pouches? He doesn't carry anything.

[Webhead2006]

actually he would carry solider items in the pouchs.

[Rich Santoro]

In WWII, it would probably be a good idea to depict him with basic supplies (compass, binoculars, basic survival gear, etc...).

In the present... I think that it also might be appropriate to give him a communicator, flashlight, a souped up SHIELD GPS type of thing so that he can see the landscape and the proximity of his team, maybe even a mini gas mask...

[Webhead2006]

totally those would all be important gear cap would/could use.

[NEXUS 6]

I have a picture of a sort of 616/Ultimate WWII costume on the manips thread. Page 4, I think...

[afan]

actually he would carry solider items in the pouchs.

What exactly..............shovel, rations, canteen, mess kit?......thing is, the pouches on that figure would be inadequate to carry much of anything that qualifies as "soldier items" making them a pointless addition.

[Rich Santoro]

In the Reborn pic, he has a canteen, I am sure some first aid stuff, it looks like some magazines (not sure why - I don't see a sidearm), maybe a map, utility knife, some water purification tablets, morphine... there is plenty that could fit in those pouches. Just not rations, bedding, or a shovel.

[nogap87]

So here's a statue of Captain America in suit when Steve Rogers returns...
http://holdyourfireal.smugmug.com/STATUE-TOY-and-OTHER-COMPANIES/Kotobukiya/Avengers-Reborn-Captain/bdd24d9b/697139356_ypSvk-XL.jpg

Perhaps we'll see something like this? It's VERY classic, yet adds a bit more of a militaristic flair to the boots.

I like everything except for the boots and the front belt pouch.

[storyteller]

But again remember that these models cheat but having the muscles show through even the thickest of clothing

[Captain America]

WWII Ultimate Cap NO DOUBT