Captain America's Costume

[Chris Wallace]

so its a perfect example of not trying to overthink a classic costume....the same can be said for Cap's costume. No need for the ultimate costume or multiple costumes. The 616 can be done and not look silly

Indeed. I remember Alex Ross accused Sony of "overthinking" Spider-Man; this from the guy who wanted him to wear THIS.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/ghostofjealousy/panther2/Spider-ManNewCostume.jpg
The BOOTS in SR REALLY bothered me the most...and I hate to say it... but I think that if they go with the swashbuckling boots look for cap... they will look silly. The ONLY way I would want them to use that look was IF they did use the Minutemen approach for his costume early in the film and then realized that it wasn't durable enough and moved more toward either the WWII Ultimates look...saving the updated "classic" look with the darker colours and the fancy materials for the Avengers movie.

The Superman Returns boots looked silly because they looked cheap. You're saying Cap's classic boots would look silly because they're essentially "over-stylized"?

[Rage]

Depending on how they are done. I've seen them illustrated as really super big "flaring out" boots and I've seen them as skinny with a small roll on the top (which makes them look like rubber boots or girls boots) I would prefer that of ALL the changes they could make with caps costume... making the boots look tuff and manly as opposed to a halloween costume or boots a crossdresser would wear would top my list. This is a guy who is going into the trenches of WWII. Across the Atlantic to Northern Europe. Maybe to the South Pacific and Africa. Footwear is Important and I just don't see the classic style boots as being exaclty practical for ANYONE (except Superman) in those conditions.

I have come to the realization that I want the wings (done to look like thick stylized metal and not actual feathers) and I would still like to see chainmail at some point... but the boots I can live without!!

[darthlaney]

Okay Cap must be 616, which means his costume can not be a bastardised soldiers uniform.

My concern and the reason I want a 'realistic' 616 costume is that I wanted to feel completely attached to the character and feel that I know who this guy is.

My fear is that I get the same feeling as I do when I watch Transformers - Optimus Prime sounds like the real thing, but he isn't the Prime I identify with - I wanted the red Mack truck to be the one transforming into a realistically presented robot - I don't feel like the Optimus in the movies is the same one that I grew up with and as such don't have a great attachment with him or any of the other transformers.

I don't want Cap to end up like this - I want to feel that this is the same guy I've been reading about for 30 years. He must look 616 to be Cap - a good costume department can make the suit work.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about??

[Ace of Knaves]

I know what you are talking about.

But still, the pirate boots and the gloves need changing I feel. Give him some red GI boots and some red tactical gloves. Not really that big a change, and the only reason people like the "pirate boots" is nostalgia, they do actually look ****ing ridiculous, undeniable.

I think for the first movie though I'd like the ultimate wwII look. It still definitely looks like Cap, but he also looks like a real soldier too.

[Brian Braddock]

Indeed. I remember Alex Ross accused Sony of "overthinking" Spider-Man; this from the guy who wanted him to wear THIS.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/ghostofjealousy/panther2/Spider-ManNewCostume.jpg





Hey, that's Alex Ross' redesign ethos for you in a nutshell, especially when you compare it to this:-


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b64/SUPERBENITEZ/CaptainAmerica2.jpg

It's like - ''I can't be bothered - why not just make the majority of it all balck with only a small portion of it actually resembling the original costume''. :hehe:

[Ace of Knaves]

That's Bucky Cap, he didn't want his costume to be exactly like Steve's. Bucky Cap's costume is sweet!

[Brian Braddock]

I get that totally, Ace. I'm more than aware of who that is and what the thinking behind the design is.

My point was that all Ross does for a redesign is use a triangle of old costume on the chest and shoulders and black everywhere else. He was probably still miffed that his Spidey design wasnt used and so applied it to Cap.

[Ace of Knaves]

:funny: Good point actually!

[Young Superman]

I HATE thw Bucky Cap costume.

[roach]

Look at the boots in the redesign Bucky cap costume (which I too find horrendous). They have the cuff and dont look silly

[Ace of Knaves]

Not on paper. But on film they would.

[roach]

I dont think they will

[RogueDK]

Not on paper. But on film they would.
Even in that Bucky Cap design the boots would look cool on film as they do on paper.


Let's not forget that Captain America is a comic book film; if people are going to be ashamed of a man running around fighting Nazis dressed like a flag with two legs, then just don't go see it. He's fantasy.
If Marvel decides to go the pirate boot route, I doubt seriously that they'll make them overly flamboyant. It can work.

[Chris Wallace]

Hey, that's Alex Ross' redesign ethos for you in a nutshell, especially when you compare it to this:-


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b64/SUPERBENITEZ/CaptainAmerica2.jpg

It's like - ''I can't be bothered - why not just make the majority of it all black with only a small portion of it actually resembling the original costume''. :hehe:

Damn-those designs are cut from the same cloth-so to speak. I never thought about that.

[roach]

those are the same designs

[Triad]

I think he was refering to the Bucky Cap & the Ross Spiderman design.

[Webhead2006]

ok i said before a few times i would like to see ultimates WW2 suit for the first avenger and leave the classic suit for avengers. But i would def be curious to see if they can make the classic look well and fit in with ww2 period and all that. Hopefully we will know in a few months on what they are planning.

[roach]

I think he was refering to the Bucky Cap & the Ross Spiderman design.

as was I...its the same design

[Chris Wallace]

It's what he does; black is his answer to everything.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/ghostofjealousy/panther2/x-men-by-alex-rosswallpaper.jpg

[Compi716]

I
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/ghostofjealousy/panther2/Spider-ManNewCostume.jpg
Actually, Ross didn't design that costume. Wams, a board member here, was the one to do the original design, which Alex Ross saw and went gaga over.

But yeah, his Cap redesign was pretty much a red, white, and blue version of this.

[Chris Wallace]

I remember seeing a foam rubber design similar to this on these boards.
Nevertheless, he called the raised webbing "overthought" & thought that black & reb monstroaity with the exclamation point for a symbol was the way to go.

[afan]

Depending on how they are done. I've seen them illustrated as really super big "flaring out" boots and I've seen them as skinny with a small roll on the top (which makes them look like rubber boots or girls boots) I would prefer that of ALL the changes they could make with caps costume... making the boots look tuff and manly as opposed to a halloween costume or boots a crossdresser would wear would top my list. This is a guy who is going into the trenches of WWII. Across the Atlantic to Northern Europe. Maybe to the South Pacific and Africa. Footwear is Important and I just don't see the classic style boots as being exaclty practical for ANYONE (except Superman) in those conditions.

I have come to the realization that I want the wings (done to look like thick stylized metal and not actual feathers) and I would still like to see chainmail at some point... but the boots I can live without!!

This is I believe is the biggest misconception surrounding this film. It has been stated that Captain America will be more akin to Indiana Jones than to Saving Private Ryan.

When did the boots worn by classic Cap become associated with crossdressers:huh:

If anything they are associated with the greatest adventure heroes thru the ages.

[Rage]

Did Indiana Jones not travel from south america, to the USA to Asia (Nepal) to to Africa (Chiro) to some other island (via submarine)? Sounds like Indy went all over the freakin place in Raiders. I would assume that Cap would be in the USA and probably either the south pacific or europe in this film...so I think he'd need proper footwear... and I don't see the classic swashbuckler boot (done in leather) as the perfect footwear. I'm sure he'd have some sort of combat boot (like the rest of the military were wearing at the time)

And if they didn't do the boots just right and made them shiny (like I've seen in the other Cap movie from 1990) or like Superman's boots from STM... they would look like rubber boots/rain boots or shiny readleather hooker boots on a dude...hence the crossdressing comment.

[Young Superman]

How about this?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2547/4034999191_507a950054.jpg

[thorstone]

I guess in the future, Tony Stark may give Captain America's scale armor a blue paint job... but they should start with black.

Keep the scale armor for its detail and silhouette but make it more black than Alex Ross' design with just flecks of blue.

Iron Man didn't start out with a red and gold paint job. These things have to be addressed in the script.


Spiderman's suit is overworked-- it looks good, but it looks like it cost Peter Parker $10,000. If I had been the director, I would have displayed at least two suits in the first movie and a third by the second film-- Raimi has yet to make any changes to the design in three films. Maybe Parker has a friend who is a tailor or a scientist friend named Reed Richards who provides him with costumes (maybe using Parker's own silk)-- none of this is ever addressed in the film.

[NEXUS 6]

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy122/roy_battys_pics/Captain%20America%20Posters/Capcopy.jpg

Combo 616 and ultimate WWII is the way to go.

[Chris Wallace]

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy122/roy_battys_pics/Captain%20America%20Posters/Capcopy.jpg

Combo 616 and ultimate WWII is the way to go.

I'm sorry-but that is just hideous.

[jab1118]

This is I believe is the biggest misconception surrounding this film. It has been stated that Captain America will be more akin to Indiana Jones than to Saving Private Ryan.

When did the boots worn by classic Cap become associated with crossdressers:huh:

If anything they are associated with the greatest adventure heroes thru the ages.

Im good with Indys footwear just red, because they are just normal boots. Because he like Cap lives in the 1940s not in europe in the 1640s when those boots would be appropriate

[Infinity9999x]

so its a perfect example of not trying to overthink a classic costume....the same can be said for cap's costume. No need for the ultimate costume or multiple costumes. The 616 can be done and not look sillyI agree with the sentiments that 616 Cap can be done and not look silly. However, I don't think that's any reason to exclude the WWII Ultimate Cap costume.

The Ultimate costume is not going to replace the 616 costume. We all know that they're going to use a 616 look for the Avengers Cap. So what's wrong with using an admittedly popular look in the first movie? Or maybe having that be his first costume, and then they do a thing similar to TDK and have him upgrade halfway through the movie.

I mean, what's wrong with change? Sometimes it works out pretty well. If we all had the mindset that we should never change costumes, Wolverine would still have a tiny mask with whiskers.

[NEXUS 6]

I'm sorry-but that is just hideous.

Ouch.:whatever:

Got any actual critiques or advice?

[Nathan]

I actually think it doesn't look bad, maybe a few tweaks here and there are required. I'd say, keep the tights for the Avengers Movie and give him for a 40's scenario something that's more practical. I see you people go on and on how Cap is an adventurer, so it would only make sense that he'd wear something more practical and sturdy than 40's superhero tights.

[roach]

I agree with the sentiments that 616 Cap can be done and not look silly. However, I don't think that's any reason to exclude the WWII Ultimate Cap costume.
My reasons for not wanting the Ultimat costume is because this isnt Ultimate Captain America.What if Batman Begins featured the Batman Beyond costume or Spider-man featured the black costume or the Iron Spider costume

The Ultimate costume is not going to replace the 616 costume. We all know that they're going to use a 616 look for the Avengers Cap. So what's wrong with using an admittedly popular look in the first movie? Or maybe having that be his first costume, and then they do a thing similar to TDK and have him upgrade halfway through the movie.
Batman updated his costume halfway the TDK???

I mean, what's wrong with change? Sometimes it works out pretty well. If we all had the mindset that we should never change costumes, Wolverine would still have a tiny mask with whiskers.

Wolverine does not have a classic costume. He has had several costumes over the years. Captain America has had one costume...from the time of his creation until last year when the Capbucky costume was created

[Infinity9999x]

Wolverine does not have a classic costume. He has had several costumes over the years. Captain America has had one costume...from the time of his creation until last year when the Capbucky costume was created

Batman isn't the best example, seeing as how none of his costume's accurately reflect his comic costume. And it may have been earlier then Halfway, but Batman did start out in the BB costume, and then changed it to the TDK costume in the movie.

And just because something hasn't been changed doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't. Like I said, it's not like we're not going to see the 616 costume. We know they're going to give us that in the Avengers movie. And heck, we could have it in the Cap solo as well, but what's wrong with him starting out in the WWII Ultimate uniform and updating to a more classic 616 look?

It's obviously a popular look. People like it, so why not have it in there for a little bit? I do agree that people arguing for it because it's more "realistic" is silly, since we're making a movie about a character that has very little in common with anything realistic. And no, this won't be a movie about Ultimate Captain America, but it's not going to be completely faithful to 616 Cap either. Changes are going to be made. They have to be made, simply because there's too much source material to draw from not to make cuts and changes.

It's not like anyone's saying that only the WWII outfit should be used. I would just like to see it for a bit.

[Turtles]

Wolverine does not have a classic costume. He has had several costumes over the years. Captain America has had one costume...from the time of his creation until last year when the Capbucky costume was created

I guess the Ultimates costume is just a figment of our collective imagination then. Or, is this just your way of admitting that Captain America's costumes from the Ultimates are, in fact, the exact same thing as Captain America's costumes from 616?:cwink: And, no, I'm not buying your "this isn't Ultimate Cap so that costume shouldn't apply here" argument. Sam Jackson as Nick Fury at the end of Iron Man proved that the Ultimates comics are going influence the movie-verse whether you want them to or not.

But, for the sake of argument....

Though it is true to say that 616 Captain America's costume has never gone through a drastic redesign like some of the costumes of other heroes, it would be a total lie say that his costume has never changed during the entire length of time Steve Rogers wore it.

Didn't cap wear a half-mask in the beginning, but switch to a full mask attached to his uniform later? Wasn't the scale mail only added later on? Haven't the colors on his costume gotten a little darker over the years? Aren't belt pouches sometimes added to his costume? These are minor changes to 616 Cap's costume that alter tiny details of the costume, but leave the original design more or less intact so the changes don't stick out so much. In my opinion the types of changes in 616 are not unlike the minor changes given to the modern version of Cap's uniform in the Ultimates, so why you'll accept the changes in 616 without a word but have a total freak out moment when red pirate boots turn to red combat boots in the Ultimates, I'll never know.

[Brian Braddock]

I was going to say to anyone who is adamant the 616 costume must be used over the Ultimates one needs to realise that there is no 616 or Ultimate when it comes to the movies - they're basically an amalgamation of both. Hell, we're basically getting Ultimate Fury in the Avengers movie after all. All bets are off basically, as far as design ethos and styling cues go.

Then I realised how hypocritical my words would be as if someone suggested that the Utlimate Thor look was the way to go, I'd go nuts.

[afan]

I see the suit discussion breaking down into two camps.......

Those that think Captain America will be a war film featuring him as a soldier, a grunt, on the battle field fighting in the trenches among all the other GIs,....hence the preponderance of practical military elements in the outfit's design.
And.........
Those that think Captain America will be an action adventure film featuring him as a super-hero, who will be dispatched on specific missions, much as Indiana Jones was dispatched by the U.S. on his mission to secure the Ark from the nazi's,.........hence the the classic look of the character for which military elements would be unnecessarily cumbersome, and the design would be outlandishly symbolic.

Put me squarely in the super-hero camp.
http://epicurienne.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/edelman-captain-america.jpg

[roach]

I guess the Ultimates costume is just a figment of our collective imagination then. Or, is this just your way of admitting that Captain America's costumes from the Ultimates are, in fact, the exact same thing as Captain America's costumes from 616?:cwink: And, no, I'm not buying your "this isn't Ultimate Cap so that costume shouldn't apply here" argument. Sam Jackson as Nick Fury at the end of Iron Man proved that the Ultimates comics are going influence the movie-verse whether you want them to or not.
I am talking 616 Captain America

But, for the sake of argument....

Though it is true to say that 616 Captain America's costume has never gone through a drastic redesign like some of the costumes of other heroes, it would be a total lie say that his costume has never changed during the entire length of time Steve Rogers wore it.

Didn't cap wear a half-mask in the beginning, but switch to a full mask attached to his uniform later? Wasn't the scale mail only added later on? Haven't the colors on his costume gotten a little darker over the years? Aren't belt pouches sometimes added to his costume? These are minor changes to 616 Cap's costume that alter tiny details of the costume, but leave the original design more or less intact so the changes don't stick out so much. In my opinion the types of changes in 616 are not unlike the minor changes given to the modern version of Cap's uniform in the Ultimates, so why you'll accept the changes in 616 without a word but have a total freak out moment when red pirate boots turn to red combat boots in the Ultimates, I'll never know.

Yes Cap wore a half mask but the same issue it was made into a full mask and reasons given.
The scale mail has always been a part of the costume.Its just now being drawn more prominent. Belt pouches are added by one by one artist and not a costume change.
Minor tweaks are different than completely changing a costume. Cap without the wings and pirate boots IMO is like trying to do Batman without the ears,glove fins and cape.
I dont like the modern Ulti-Cap costume either.

[roach]

Then I realised how hypocritical my words would be as if someone suggested that the Utlimate Thor look was the way to go, I'd go nuts.

I dont want the Cap costume to be the BB and TDK costumes. Suits that are not faithful to the source in favor of realism

[Nathan]

It's not like the Ultimate suit doesn't resemble Cap at all or that they dressed him completely in kevlar like Batman. The suit had minor updates and I thought they were appropriate for modern times, while still retaining 80-90% of his classic look and being totally super-heroish. It's not like they dressed him like Ultimate Hawkeye, Giant Man or Quicksilver.

[GhostPoet]

If you take the original costume, modernize the gloves and boots and make the wings not stick out...then the original costume is fine.

The wings look really stupid.

[Compi716]

The wings look really stupid.
Well I think the modern gloves and boots look really stupid. :hehe:

[RogueDK]

I see the suit discussion breaking down into two camps.......

Those that think Captain America will be a war film featuring him as a soldier, a grunt, on the battle field fighting in the trenches among all the other GIs,....hence the preponderance of practical military elements in the outfit's design.
And.........
Those that think Captain America will be an action adventure film featuring him as a super-hero, who will be dispatched on specific missions, much as Indiana Jones was dispatched by the U.S. on his mission to secure the Ark from the nazi's,.........hence the the classic look of the character for which military elements would be unnecessarily cumbersome, and the design would be outlandishly symbolic.

Put me squarely in the super-hero camp.
http://epicurienne.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/edelman-captain-america.jpg
:word:

[Ace of Knaves]

It's not like the Ultimate suit doesn't resemble Cap at all or that they dressed him completely in kevlar like Batman. The suit had minor updates and I thought they were appropriate for modern times, while still retaining 80-90% of his classic look and being totally super-heroish. It's not like they dressed him like Ultimate Hawkeye, Giant Man or Quicksilver.

This.

I don't want Cap running around in skin tight ****ing spandex.

[Wolvieboy17]

I see the suit discussion breaking down into two camps.......

Those that think Captain America will be a war film featuring him as a soldier, a grunt, on the battle field fighting in the trenches among all the other GIs,....hence the preponderance of practical military elements in the outfit's design.
And.........
Those that think Captain America will be an action adventure film featuring him as a super-hero, who will be dispatched on specific missions, much as Indiana Jones was dispatched by the U.S. on his mission to secure the Ark from the nazi's,.........hence the the classic look of the character for which military elements would be unnecessarily cumbersome, and the design would be outlandishly symbolic.

Put me squarely in the super-hero camp.

If those are the two main arguments, then surely an amalgamation of the two would suit everyone? Something striking and superheroesque, with the camper elements toned down, with a few stylistic features tweaked for practicality?

I'm still all for two different costumes between avengers and the Cap origin film, regardless of what those costumes be.

[jab1118]

I see the suit discussion breaking down into two camps.......

Those that think Captain America will be a war film featuring him as a soldier, a grunt, on the battle field fighting in the trenches among all the other GIs,....hence the preponderance of practical military elements in the outfit's design.
And.........
Those that think Captain America will be an action adventure film featuring him as a super-hero, who will be dispatched on specific missions, much as Indiana Jones was dispatched by the U.S. on his mission to secure the Ark from the nazi's,.........hence the the classic look of the character for which military elements would be unnecessarily cumbersome, and the design would be outlandishly symbolic.

Put me squarely in the super-hero camp.
http://epicurienne.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/edelman-captain-america.jpg

I think the movie is clearly gonna be a big action adventure movie and anybody who thinks this movie is gonna be a gritty war movie is kidding themselves. However I don't think that has anything to do with his costume. He will look just as much like a hero with the boots and gloves changed to look not silly.

And I don't know why you keep using Indiana Jones as your example. Is there anybody dressed more practical for an adventure then him. Pants shirt leather jacket, boots and a hat. And a satchel so he can carry any smaaler items along the way

[afan]

And I don't know why you keep using Indiana Jones as your example. Is there anybody dressed more practical for an adventure then him. Pants shirt leather jacket, boots and a hat. And a satchel so he can carry any smaaler items along the way

Because I believe that Raiders, along with the Rocketeer( films that Captain America's director were involved with ) have been cited to illustrate the type of film Captain America will be.

As far as your point regarding Indy's outfit.........Indeed he is outfitted very appropriately for an adventurer, which is what he is, and Cap should be outfitted appropriately for a super-hero, which is what he is!

Speaking to the "practicality" issue.... let's not forget that Indy wears the same outfit everywhere in every climate whether tropical or frozen.

[marcvader]

I think people use Indiana Jones to illustrate the tone, a fun adventure flick.

[jab1118]

Because I believe that Raiders, along with the Rocketeer( films that Captain America's director were involved with ) have been cited to illustrate the type of film Captain America will be.

As far as your point regarding Indy's outfit.........Indeed he is outfitted very appropriately for an adventurer, which is what he is, and Cap should be outfitted appropriately for a super-hero, which is what he is!

Speaking to the "practicality" issue.... let's not forget that Indy wears the same outfit everywhere in every climate whether tropical or frozen.

I agree that the tone will be similar to Indy, as it should these movies should be fun. I guess I just don't see how changing a few minor things like style of gloves and boots makes him not look like a superhero. Its not like anybody is going all x-men and saying lose the mask why would a soldier where that. I don't want him to be laughed at and with his pirate boots and muskateer gloves he will just look silly. Anyway I am fairly certain when all is said and done movie Cap is gonna look more like I want him to Marvel will not let him look cheesy

[afan]

I agree that the tone will be similar to Indy, as it should these movies should be fun. I guess I just don't see how changing a few minor things like style of gloves and boots makes him not look like a superhero. Its not like anybody is going all x-men and saying lose the mask why would a soldier where that. I don't want him to be laughed at and with his pirate boots and muskateer gloves he will just look silly. Anyway I am fairly certain when all is said and done movie Cap is gonna look more like I want him to Marvel will not let him look cheesy

Can certainly agree, with an emphasis on "minor" however.

At the end of the day it is all a matter of taste. I don't see the gaunlet style gloves or the roll down boots as silly or cheesy.

My main point is that helmets, army issue uniforms sparsely adorned with red, white, and blue, and ammo belts don't translate the super hero aspect of the character at all.

[Nathan]

You don't always need tights though to be a superhero. For the 40's scenario I think this would look fine. Just get rid of the little things that make it look too militaristic. The harness, the helmet, the knife, get rid of the side pockets and mix the gloves and boots with the classic design.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1899/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg/)

[Triad]

I love the 616 and many aspects of the Ultimates style. I totally agree that an amalgamation of the two is our best bet.
Even though it doesn't seem to be very popular on these boards, I especially like the helmet he wears in Ultimates volume 2 - but with wings added. As afan stated though, it is all a matter of personal tastes.

[afan]

Admittedly and un-abashedly, I am looking at this with prejudicial aforethought, but does this really look all that silly or cheesy?

[Ace of Knaves]

THe boots do.

No one is saying take away the red white and blue of Caps suit I don't think. The WWII Ultimate suit still looks like Captain America. It just looks more practical.

[Timstuff]

http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6033&d=1263329228

"Cap, you lazy SOB! Quit standing around like that and help us get this plane ready for launch!"

[NoirMan82]

You don't always need tights though to be a superhero. For the 40's scenario I think this would look fine. Just get rid of the little things that make it look too militaristic. The harness, the helmet, the knife, get rid of the side pockets and mix the gloves and boots with the classic design.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1899/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg/)

I love this. It'd be perfect for the film!

[Aesop Rocks]

Take out the gernades and the ammo belt...thingy.

And the knife.

Make the helmet and mask one thing and add the wings.

[afan]

http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6033&d=1263329228

"Cap, you lazy SOB! Quit standing around like that and help us get this plane ready for launch!"

:yay:.........but rank does have it's privileges.

[afan]

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1899/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg/)

I believe the title of this work is "I Arrived too Late"............................................he arrived too late 'cause he was lacing up those boots.

[R_Hythlodeus]

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1899/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg/)

. THAT is the costume I want

[Wolvieboy17]

I think that costume is fine. For people wanting Cap to have his classic costume, patience! Save that for the Avengers... Give him something glorious to work towards... A more realistic, WWII costume would make it easier for the focus of this film to be on Steve Rogers, let the audience come to know him and understand who he is. Think of any successful origin story... If they play it smart, by the end of this film every person who saw it will be champing at the bit to see Avengers, comic fans and GA alike.

Also, I like the webbing and grenades and so forth. Whether he uses them or not, it looks a bit more believable that this billion dollar investment being sent in with a shield and not even a helmet.

[roach]

realism...in a film with a supersoldier and and indestructable shield???

waiting until Avengers for Cap to be in his classic costume is like expecting Spider-man to be in that wrestling outfit the whole movie and the classic Spidey costume will wait until Spidey 2

[Ace of Knaves]

I don't think realistic is the right word. Practical is the right word.

And that suit is fine for the first movie, where he is a SOLDIER not a super hero. He will be a super hero in Avengers, give him the 616 suit then.

Honestly whats the problem with it? It still SCREAMS Captain America.

[Ace of Knaves]

realism...in a film with a supersoldier and and indestructable shield???

waiting until Avengers for Cap to be in his classic costume is like expecting Spider-man to be in that wrestling outfit the whole movie and the classic Spidey costume will wait until Spidey 2

No it's not.

Cap isn't a super hero in WWII. He's a super SOLDIER. He doesn't become a bonafide super HERO until he joins the Avengers.

[afan]

Honestly whats the problem with it? It still SCREAMS Captain America.


Respectfully, it whimpers Captain America.


Cap isn't a super hero in WWII. He's a super SOLDIER. He doesn't become a bonafide super HERO until he joins the Avengers.


That depends entirely on what film we get..........war drama...........or action adventure.

[Wolvieboy17]

Roach, you always nit pick like captain pedantic when I use the word realism...
Elements of realism is something any film needs... Just because its a superhero movie doesn't mean all bets are off logic wise? He's a super soldier, but i'm still pretty sure a gunshot to the head wouldn't be pretty, and if memory serves me correctly, he was taken out in the comics from a shoulder wound?

And when I say realism, I mean elements to make Steve Rogers character believable... He has to have elements to him that are accessible for an audience. No one wants a character who is perfect, and feels indestructable, so adding things like webbing or a helmet give the impression that he does still have vulnerablities and there is still interest, and room for tension.

Also, thats BS what you say about the spidey wresting suit and all that. Think about the Iron Man film... Long before he was shooting around in the skies and calling himself Iron Man, the audience is given enough time with Tony Stark, the man, and helps understand him, his personality, his strengths and weaknesses and so on. That way, whenever he dons the suit, you know his motivation and it adds depth to everything. Considering the First Avenger is an origin film, it needs to adequately build up Steve Rogers character the same way, let people feel like they know what kind of man he is before the costume takes over. That way, when the Avengers rolls around, its more than the Captain America brand selling the movie, but a fully fledged 3-Dimensional character.

[Wolvieboy17]

That depends entirely on what film we get..........war drama...........or action adventure.

God forbid it contains elements of more than one genre!

[afan]

God forbid it contains elements of more than one genre!

.....for example?

[Jumpin' Jack]

What about war action or adventure ?

[afan]

What about war action or adventure ?

There can be action in a comedy........there can be action in any genre.
Can someone name a film that successfully combined the two?
To me this........
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1899/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg/)

.....says War/Drama.

[Wolvieboy17]

You're honestly asking for an example of a film that spans multiple genres? Straight off the top of my head, Bladerunner, The Matrix, Lost Highway.

Personally, i'm all up for an action adventure movie, but if they somehow manage to depict scenes from WWII lacking any elements of 'War Drama', then I think the film risks being a shallow, empty action flick. People are taking the whole 'Indiana Jones' comparison way too seriously. It's still set in WWII, and there will still be people dying everywhere, and Cap is still a Soldier. Part of Caps character is that he's a highly trained and disciplined leader and soldier, and thats hardly going to come out if he spends the whole film on a rollickin' swashbuckling adventure, swing from castle chandeliers and kicking Nazi's in the face. If it's going to be done right, there will need to be some elements of warfare, with Cap portraying his leadership skills over a battallion or something.

[Wolvieboy17]

To me this........


.....says War/Drama.

...Apart from the fact that he's in a brightly coloured costume, that says to me elements of adventure/action or something fantastical. We're not expecting a 2 hour Saving Private Ryan epic, but you can't ignore the WWII backdrop.

[afan]

You're honestly asking for an example of a film that spans multiple genres? Straight off the top of my head, Bladerunner, The Matrix, Lost Highway.



No....specifically a film that successfully combines war/drama and action adventure.
For example, tho it's success can be argued, I might name "Pearl Harbor" with Ben Affleck. The dogfight being the flagrant action/adventure element.

[Wolvieboy17]

I think you're getting bogged down on the idea of war/drama. That technically doesn't exist as a genre. There are war films, and there are dramas. To me, a war drama would be something more like The English Patient or Schindlers List, than say Saving Private Ryan or Platoon, but most War films obviously have dramatic elements to them. Not every film has to be categorized. Look at Cap and Thor. Thor is a fantasy, epic action/adventure superhero movie with perhaps the slightest hint of hospital drama lol.
Marvel have said that whilst Cap will be set in WWII, they want to give it a lighter, more adventurous tone. I wouldn't read that as watering down any war drama, more just focusing less on the most typically covered aspects of the war, e.g. Holocaust. But it's still clearly going to be very much a period piece...
I'm picturing typical war themes, mingled in with some superhero elements and some scenes like the one at the beginning of Hellboy, with Nazis conducting experiments or trying to create a super weapon.

[afan]

You're honestly asking for an example of a film that spans multiple genres? Straight off the top of my head, Bladerunner, The Matrix, Lost Highway.

Personally, i'm all up for an action adventure movie, but if they somehow manage to depict scenes from WWII lacking any elements of 'War Drama', then I think the film risks being a shallow, empty action flick. People are taking the whole 'Indiana Jones' comparison way too seriously. It's still set in WWII, and there will still be people dying everywhere, and Cap is still a Soldier. Part of Caps character is that he's a highly trained and disciplined leader and soldier, and thats hardly going to come out if he spends the whole film on a rollickin' swashbuckling adventure, swing from castle chandeliers and kicking Nazi's in the face. If it's going to be done right, there will need to be some elements of warfare, with Cap portraying his leadership skills over a battallion or something.

A scientist is captured by the nazis and is being kept on a secret base in the alps, where he is working on amazing tech that will guarantee victory for the Axis powers. Steve Rogers/Captain America is sent on a mission to free the scientist. He is assisted by a group of freedom fighters. That could be the "something" without the need for the SOLDIER iteration or the battlefield scenario, and the interaction between Rogers and the group that make up the freedom fighters would detail the Rogers/Cap character.

[RogueDK]

You don't always need tights though to be a superhero. For the 40's scenario I think this would look fine. Just get rid of the little things that make it look too militaristic. The harness, the helmet, the knife, get rid of the side pockets and mix the gloves and boots with the classic design.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1899/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/icouldhavedonemorebyela.jpg/)
Ugh...No. :nono:

[Nathan]

Oh... Yes. :awesome:

[Ace of Knaves]

Respectfully, it whimpers Captain America.



That depends entirely on what film we get..........war drama...........or action adventure.

It whimpers Captain America?

Err... he's still dressed in the red white and blue. He's STILL a walking target. He STILL looks like something for American troops to rally behind.

Yea... he STILL looks like Captain America.

The only changes there are... no pirate boots. Not wings on his lid/mask. So pirate boots and wings on his head make Captain America yea? No.

[Brian Braddock]

realism...in a film with a supersoldier and and indestructable shield???

waiting until Avengers for Cap to be in his classic costume is like expecting Spider-man to be in that wrestling outfit the whole movie and the classic Spidey costume will wait until Spidey 2

I don't think realistic is the right word. Practical is the right word.

And that suit is fine for the first movie, where he is a SOLDIER not a super hero. He will be a super hero in Avengers, give him the 616 suit then.

Honestly whats the problem with it? It still SCREAMS Captain America.

Sure, its fantastical that the government would be able to create a supersoldier like Cap, and that they would be able to create an indestructable shield, but it's believable that if they did, they would equip Cap with whatever else they had to hand, using the styles and materials around at the time.

I really beleive that wherever possible, by surrounding the unbelievable with the believable and the fantastical with the plausable, the filmakers can go some way into keeping the film grounded in the 'realism' required to stop Cap from becoming a total cartoony cheese-fest.

On printed page, Cap may look great fighting the war in the 616 costume, but I dont think that would work great on film. I agree with the people who say they should hold off the 616 garb until Cap awakes modern day and is given a more high-tech 'super-heroic' suit by Tony or S.H.I.E.L.D. to replace the vintage one damaged beyond repair by the explosion and general wear and tear.

My own personal view is that the G.A. is going to buy a supersoldier fighting the Nazis on the battlefields of Europe a helluva lot easier if he's actually garbed sumwhat like a soldier.

[Ace of Knaves]

Sure, its fantastical that the government would be able to create a supersoldier like Cap, and that they would be able to create an indestructable shield, but it's believable that if they did, they would equip Cap with whatever else they had to hand, using the styles and materials around at the time.

I really beleive that wherever possible, by surrounding the unbelievable with the believable and the fantastical with the plausable, the filmakers can go some way into keeping the film grounded in the 'realism' required to stop Cap from becoming a total cartoony cheese-fest.

On printed page, Cap may look great fighting the war in the 616 costume, but I dont think that would work great on film. I agree with the people who say they should hold off the 616 garb until Cap awakes modern day and is given a more high-tech 'super-heroic' suit by Tony or S.H.I.E.L.D. to replace the vintage one damaged beyond repair by the explosion and general wear and tear.

My own personal view is that the G.A. is going to buy a supersoldier fighting the Nazis on the battlefields of Europe a helluva lot easier if he's actually garbed sumwhat like a soldier.

Nail and head spring to mind.

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah, i'm definitely getting that same vibe regarding both the concepts of 'nail' and 'head'... If only I could put two and two together.

[Brian Braddock]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b64/SUPERBENITEZ/pinhead2.jpg

:D

[RogueDK]

Sure, its fantastical that the government would be able to create a supersoldier like Cap, and that they would be able to create an indestructable shield, but it's believable that if they did, they would equip Cap with whatever else they had to hand, using the styles and materials around at the time.

I really beleive that wherever possible, by surrounding the unbelievable with the believable and the fantastical with the plausable, the filmakers can go some way into keeping the film grounded in the 'realism' required to stop Cap from becoming a total cartoony cheese-fest.

Uh...Cap is a cartoon. Outside of the film borrowing from the historical academics of WW2, the rest is just fantasy. Escapism for 2 hours. The quality of the writing and direction will keep it from being cheesy.

On printed page, Cap may look great fighting the war in the 616 costume, but I dont think that would work great on film.


Yes he can look great on film in 616. But of course this is just a revolving door on the issue: Respectfully some are for it, others are not. It'll be interesting to see who gets what in the end.

My own personal view is that the G.A. is going to buy a supersoldier fighting the Nazis on the battlefields of Europe a helluva lot easier if he's actually garbed sumwhat like a soldier.

You might be selling general audiences a tad short. There are countless non-comic book people who know Cap's image on sight. He's a recognizable American icon on par with Superman IMO. If the same general audiences, that you refer to, find it hard to digest an image because he isn't garbed in something more plausibly G.I., then maybe they went to see the wrong picture.

Cap as 616 will make money. If a P.O.S. movie featuring talking squirrels can make mega-bucks, I'm pretty sure a walking flag with a shield can overshadow those numbers because the story and direction will be better. Let's stop with the Nolan approach to everything comic book -wise.


Funny, if everyone agreed with a certain look for Cap, I think this thread would be two pages long at best. :hehe:

[Ace of Knaves]

And that image of the more soldier look doesn't look like Captain America at all does it?

Oh wait... it does.

[RogueDK]

And that image of the more soldier look doesn't look like Captain America at all does it?

Oh wait... it does.
Hmmm...let me see....hold it! Wait....nope. :whatever:

Like I said, we'll just have to see where Marvel's head is at in the end. No one's going to be totally satisfied with the end result.

[Wolvieboy17]

You might be selling general audiences a tad short. There are countless non-comic book people who know Cap's image on sight. He's a recognizable American icon on par with Superman IMO. If the same general audiences, that you refer to, find it hard to digest an image because he isn't garbed in something more plausibly G.I., then maybe they went to see the wrong picture.

Its' not about them recognising it, its about them buying into it enough to invest themselves emotionally to the characters.

Cap as 616 will make money. If a P.O.S. movie featuring talking squirrels can make mega-bucks, I'm pretty sure a walking flag with a shield can overshadow those numbers because the story and direction will be better. *Let's stop with the Nolan approach to everything comic book -wise*.

The Nolan approach? You mean that approach where they try and take a property outside of its originally written context and try and give it some current relevance?
The movie will be set during WWII, which has a hell of a lot more of an image to a general audience than Cap. I think trying to make it accessible is a decent strategy. Besides, there will be fanboys who are going to whine and complain, regardless of what sort of movie we end up getting, so obviously Marvels priority will be to make a good film in its own right, thats open to everyone.

[RogueDK]

Its' not about them recognising it, its about them buying into it enough to invest themselves emotionally to the characters.


Well, I think I said that's up to the quality of the direction and script. We're saying the same thing here.



The Nolan approach? You mean that approach where they try and take a property outside of its originally written context and try and give it some current relevance?

His costume. His costume. Not the mythos.

[afan]

My own personal view is that the G.A. is going to buy a supersoldier fighting the Nazis on the battlefields of Europe a helluva lot easier if he's actually garbed sumwhat like a soldier.

IF........ the film takes place on the battlefields of Europe, and that's the key to your view.

For the sake of argument....Cap is dispatched to root out and destroy a fifth column group of Nazi saboteurs working in the U.S...... Would he then be outfitted like the army infantry?

[Ace of Knaves]

Hmmm...let me see....hold it! Wait....nope. :whatever:

Like I said, we'll just have to see where Marvel's head is at in the end. No one's going to be totally satisfied with the end result.

So what is missing from that suit? The pirate boots? The wings on his head?

So the pirate boots and the wings make Captain America yea? No.

He still looks like a walking flag that attracts enemy fire. He still looks like a walking flag that will inspire the other American troops.

Those two things are what REALLY makes Captain America. Not ****ing pirate boots and wings on his head.

[afan]

It'll be interesting to see who gets what in the end.




:hehe:Forgive me RogueDK for an uncontrollable Beavis n Butthead moment here:hehe:

[Wolvieboy17]

"Ouch, my end."

[RogueDK]

So what is missing from that suit? The pirate boots? The wings on his head?

So the pirate boots and the wings make Captain America yea? No.

He still looks like a walking flag that attracts enemy fire. He still looks like a walking flag that will inspire the other American troops.

Those two things are what REALLY makes Captain America. Not ****ing pirate boots and wings on his head.
Isn't this long drawn out arguement all about "preference?"

It's not necessarily about anything plausible no matter how much credence your debate has. And you take that back! The wings on the head are awesome!

I really, really hope they give Ryan Reynolds pirate boots in Deadpool just to pi## you off. :hehe:


:hehe:Forgive mr RogueDK for an uncontrollable Beavis n Butthead moment here:hehe:
I meant only in the figurative sense but yeah, that is something they'd laugh at. lol

[afan]

It whimpers Captain America?

Err... he's still dressed in the red white and blue. He's STILL a walking target. He STILL looks like something for American troops to rally behind.

Yea... he STILL looks like Captain America.

The only changes there are... no pirate boots. Not wings on his lid/mask. So pirate boots and wings on his head make Captain America yea? No.

It's the tone of the illustration that underwhelms.

I wouldn't rally around that individual at all. To me nothing about him translates to strength and hope, surely trademarks for Cap, rather I see weakness and despair. He's not overpowering he is overpowered!

[Ace of Knaves]

Isn't this long drawn out arguement all about "preference?"

It's not necessarily about anything plausible no matter how much credence your debate has. And you take that back! The wings on the head are awesome!

I really, really hope they give Ryan Reynolds pirate boots in Deadpool just to pi## you off. :hehe:


LOL I wouldn't mind that actually. He could be like "Hey! Ain't these what that other guy wears? Y'know, Death..." :D

I know it's about preference, but do you know what I'm saying?

That suit up there still features the MAIN things about the Cap suit. It still features the MAIN reason why Cap has such an extravagant suit.

Cap's suit was designed the way it was so he could attract enemy fire away from the other troops. Cap's suit was designed that way so it is an inspiration to the other troops.

That suit we are talking about still retains these features, agreed?

BTW I also think the wings are awesome :D

[Ace of Knaves]

It's the tone of the illustration that underwhelms.

I wouldn't rally around that individual at all. To me nothing about him translates to strength and hope, surely trademarks for Cap, rather I see weakness and despair. He's not overpowering he is overpowered!

I was talking about the suit. I agree the pose doesn't look very Cap like. But I would imagine him mourning over the deaths of his fellow troops. He's still human.

See my response to RogueDK, I can't be arsed to type it out again.

[Wolvieboy17]

It's the tone of the illustration that underwhelms.

I wouldn't rally around that individual at all. To me nothing about him translates to strength and hope, surely trademarks for Cap, rather I see weakness and despair. He's not overpowering he is overpowered!

But thats because cap looks so weedy in that pic, not the costume... Imagine instead, if he had the bigger build, and had one foot on the body of a knocked out Nazi or something... The costume's fine, the guy just looks nothing like Cap.

[RogueDK]

It's the tone of the illustration that underwhelms.

I wouldn't rally around that individual at all. To me nothing about him translates to strength and hope, surely trademarks for Cap, rather I see weakness and despair. He's not overpowering he is overpowered!
Not to mention severely emo-looking.

But thats because cap looks so weedy in that pic, not the costume... Imagine instead, if he had the bigger build, and had one foot on the body of a knocked out Nazi or something... The costume's fine, the guy just looks nothing like Cap.
And to me on both counts...he is not Cap.

[RogueDK]

I was talking about the suit. I agree the pose doesn't look very Cap like. But I would imagine him mourning over the deaths of his fellow troops. He's still human.

See my response to RogueDK, I can't be arsed to type it out again.
:hehe: Yes, I saw it.

Still want 616, man. Still luv ya though.:hehe:

[afan]

I was talking about the suit. I agree the pose doesn't look very Cap like. But I would imagine him mourning over the deaths of his fellow troops. He's still human.

See my response to RogueDK, I can't be arsed to type it out again.

Most certainly, but at attention, solid as rock in his resolve, saluting those that have fallen.

[Ace of Knaves]

:hehe: Yes, I saw it.

Still want 616, man. Still luv ya though.:hehe:

I love you too, man. :D

Yea I want 616 too, but I'd rather save it for Avengers. So when Cap comes out of the ice, Tony is like "Hey Steve, you're old suit was a bit, old fashioned, not to mention ruined from your war days. Try this on for size!"

Ta-Daaaa! The 616 suit in all it's awesomness!

[Ace of Knaves]

Most certainly, but at attention, solid as rock in his resolve, saluting those that have fallen.

Yea I get ya. More like a steely determination rather than moping emo look.

[marcvader]

I definately do not want to wait for the Avengers to see 616 Cap which happens to be the iteration of the Cap I've known for 20some odd years reading. I'm ok with him not having the boots, ok with him not having the gauntlets, even ok with him wearing the Ultimate fatigues and helmet for 1/2 the movie even but I want to see him wearing some semblance of 616 in the climactic acts of his first real big budget debut. The movie is not called Captain America for nothing and 616 Cap is Captain America to me not Ultimate Cap.

[RogueDK]

The movie is not called Captain America for nothing and 616 Cap is Captain America to me not Ultimate Cap.
Dude, you're awesome. :awesome:

[afan]

My opinion is that if, after seeing the super-hero fantastorgasmic action of IM, IMII, and The Mighty Thor, the GA is treated to a Captain America that features our hero in army fatigues slogging thru trench warfare in the European theater taking out machine gun bunkers; the anticipation gathering momentum for The Avengers will grind to a screeching halt.

It's relevant to recognize that although Cap must succeed as a stand alone film, it must also follow the tone of it's four predecessors.

Captain America must build on the super-hero steam rolling express train, and not derail it's path.

[Rage]

I honestly feel that they should use Ultimates WWII for the majority of the movie...although... I DO want to see the 616 version of the suit at the end of the movie. Kinda like Ironman... have a couple different versions of the costume depending on when in his career and the environment he is in.

I want the wings. I DON'T want the pirate boots. I want the gloves (with NO POUCHES). I DON'T want camo fatigues.

[Ace of Knaves]

But guys, that costume posted is still Captain America. People won't look at it and go "Meh, he looks like a standard soldier" will they?

Like I said, he's still a walking flag. He still looks like Cap.

[RogueDK]

But guys, that costume posted is still Captain America. People won't look at it and go "Meh, he looks like a standard soldier" will they?
No, they'll say he looks like one of those chickless fanboys who comes to the comic book conventions that begs everyone that passes by to take his picture.

Not Cap on that picture posted. :hehe:

[afan]

But guys, that costume posted is still Captain America. People won't look at it and go "Meh, he looks like a standard soldier" will they?

Like I said, he's still a walking flag. He still looks like Cap.

No argument from me.
The elements, as applied to army issue uniforming, are those of Captain America.
That being said however, to the GA, 616 IS Captain America.

[the dmg]

Like I've been saying, I'd be OK with a "Minutemen" style 616 Cap suit if it's not his primary costume in the movie-- as in, it only makes a guest appearance during some kind of PR / photo op event where Cap is shaking hands with Roosevelt or something. The rest of the World War II period would be his Ultimate WW2 uniform, and then when he gets into modern times he'd get a modernized version of the 616 uniform. That'd be 3 different suits in the movie with the Ultimate WW2 suit getting most of the screen time.

I like this idea. He still needs protection in the battlefield, and I think this could work very well.

[Nathan]

The movie is not called Captain America for nothing and 616 Cap is Captain America to me not Ultimate Cap.

What you have to realize though, is that none of the Marvel Movies are 1:1 translations of the 616 comics. And that is a fact. They borrow things from several comics or come up with things on their own. We already have Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury in the Movies. So as much as you dislike it, Ultimate influences are already in the Marvel-movieverse. So better try and get used to it or avoid the movies.

[jab1118]

My biggest problem with the ww2 cap is the helmet. I could totally except that last costume if you just gave him a more traditional Cap mask I think it would look pretty good. Plus I would expect Cap to be doing some accrobatic moves in this movie and a regular helmet isn't exactly ideal for all of that

[marcvader]

What you have to realize though, is that none of the Marvel Movies are 1:1 translations of the 616 comics. And that is a fact. They borrow things from several comics or come up with things on their own. We already have Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury in the Movies. So as much as you dislike it, Ultimate influences are already in the Marvel-movieverse. So better try and get used to it or avoid the movies.
Oh I understand that the movieverse is a universe in its own right. I understand that we are not getting 100% translations, got no problem with that and I'm sure as hell not missing seeing Cap on the big screen regardless of Marvels take on him. Like I said I'm ok with the Ultimate WWII Cap for the most part but when Steve Rogers becomes "Captain America" and is in full swing in the final thrust of the movie I want him to look like the Captain America i've known all my life. I'm ok with different boots and gloves as I agree with everyone thinking their too crazy looking in real life.

[Chris Wallace]

First off, keep in mind that the movies influenced Ultimate first. I can accept some Ultimate influence but there's no need to go overboard. Did Iron Man have that manga frog-suit? No. Did the Hulk eat people? No. Did Doom have hooves? Was Venom the result of a weird attempt at curing cancer? No. So it isn't necessary that the movies be married to the new school way of thinking. I think the best of both worlds can be easily achieved.

[Ace of Knaves]

And that's what the movies are doing.

The movies are not exactly 616. The movies are not exactly Ultimate. They are a mish mash which creates a whole new universe. The movieverse.

[roach]

I don't think realistic is the right word. Practical is the right word.

And that suit is fine for the first movie, where he is a SOLDIER not a super hero. He will be a super hero in Avengers, give him the 616 suit then.

Honestly whats the problem with it? It still SCREAMS Captain America.

Incorrect. Steve Rogers was a supersoldier up until Dr Erskine died...or was Steve's whole out fit going to be wearing that suit.
The moment they put him in the suit he became a superhero.
1) He wears a costume.
2)He fights supervillains
...he's a superhero

[roach]

And that's what the movies are doing.

The movies are not exactly 616. The movies are not exactly Ultimate. They are a mish mash which creates a whole new universe. The movieverse.

what mish mash...other than SMJ as Fury what else has been lifted from the Ultimate universe?

[Chris Wallace]

what mish mash...other than SMJ as Fury what else has been lifted from the Ultimate universe?
Hmmm-the "Super soldier" angle in Incredible Hulk? Doom's metallic skin?
Other than that, I really can't think of anything. It's mostly been the other way around. The movies influenced many aspects of Ultimate, such as:
Magneto's plastic prison
Leather X-uniforms
Toad's tongue power.
Spidey's cheesy wrestling costume
The Goblin's "super soldier" angle.
Ock's look in the "Hollywood" arc.
Bullseye's forehead brand
I think, though, that when it's all said & done the 616 universe is the MAIN source for the movies, and I think it needs to stay that way.

[Ace of Knaves]

You could say Stark not being a stiff and actually being quite charismatic is more inline with the Ultimate universe.

But that could just be RDJs personality coming through and it being a coincidence that Ultimate Stark is more charismatic.

And actually, the scar on Bullseyes head is 616. Daredevil cut it into his head.

But let's get this straight.

What is the reason Cap's costume looks the way it does?

THe reason is... he is a walking American flag to...

1. Draw enemy fire towards him. To make him a walking target

2. To inspire his fellow American troops.

Are you honestly telling me that the WWII suit does not meet these requirements?

Those two points are THE things that make Captain Americas suite Captain Americas suit. Not ****ing pirate boots and wings on his head.

[Chris Wallace]

Yes, but this was after years of him wearing a mask, whereas in Ultimate he always had it.
So am I to understand that a sizeable number of people here want to go through 2 hours with Cap running around in a cheesy, makeshift-looking costume in hopes that he'll get a better one down the road? That'd be like Spider-Man wearing his wrestling costume throughout the entire movie.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yes, but this was after years of him wearing a mask, whereas in Ultimate he always had it.
So am I to understand that a sizeable number of people here want to go through 2 hours with Cap running around in a cheesy, makeshift-looking costume in hopes that he'll get a better one down the road?

So am I to understand you think that WWII suit is more cheesy than the 616 suit? Pirate boots and wings on his head and all...?

[Chris Wallace]

So am I to understand you think that WWII suit is more cheesy than the 616 suit? Pirate boots and wings on his head and all...?

Why are we attacking the wings? Nobody seems to have a problem with a guy wearing Great Dane ears & a beak trying to look like a bat.

[Nathan]

I just had to raise an eyebrow upon reading that cheesy comment. Running around in tights made in the 40's isn't cheesy, but an actualy practical uniform with the flag colors is?

[Chris Wallace]

By "cheesy" I meant that it's cheap-looking. Again, like Spider-Man's wrestling suit.

[Rage]

I still think that he should start with the Ultimate WWII suit and evolve it during the course of the movie. Either the army comes up with a better alternative to the wool based army uniforms of the 40s and more toward a slimmer lighter material (that maybe Howard Stark helps design and they make it into a plate or chainmail armor) Then we can get both costumes in the movie.

[Ace of Knaves]

Why are we attacking the wings? Nobody seems to have a problem with a guy wearing Great Dane ears & a beak trying to look like a bat.

Because he is trying to look like a Bat. That's his motif.

What is Cap trying to look like? A walking American flag. Where the **** do wings on his head come from?

But I don't mind the wings. But saying the WWII costume looks cheesy compared to the 616 costume is ridiculous.

[Nathan]

By "cheesy" I meant that it's cheap-looking. Again, like Spider-Man's wrestling suit.

Ok, an actual Uniform, looks cheap. Gotcha. Yep, why didn't I see it before? It looks like he's wearing simple pants with a sweater in the flag colors.

[Ace of Knaves]

By "cheesy" I meant that it's cheap-looking. Again, like Spider-Man's wrestling suit.

That picture posted a few pages back of the WWII suit doesn't look cheap. How does an OFFICIAL looking military uniform, except with an American Flag motif look cheap?

You know what looks cheap? Tights and pirate boots.

[Blackman]

For First Avengers
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Marvel/074kr.jpg

Avengers and sequels
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Marvel/Steven_Rogers_Earth-616_019.jpg
^^^except with different belt

----


What is Cap's 616 costume made of?

[Ace of Knaves]

For First Avengers
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Marvel/074kr.jpg

Avengers and sequels
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/Fannboi/Marvel/Steven_Rogers_Earth-616_019.jpg

My thoughts EXACTLY.

Except for the god awful brown old school fighter pilot looking thing on his head :D

The main point of the Cap suit is to look like an American Flag so it attracts attention to Cap, away from his fellow soldiers and to inspire his fellow soldiers. That WWII meets those requirements. UNDENIABLE.

[Blackman]

My thoughts EXACTLY.

Except for the god awful brown old school fighter pilot looking thing on his head :D

The main point of the Cap suit is to look like an American Flag so it attracts attention to Cap, away from his fellow soldiers and to inspire his fellow soldiers. That WWII meets those requirements. UNDENIABLE.
I kind of like the pilot like helmet. Idk, he's not flying but it still looks cool to me

Things I can do without in 616 costume for film
-leather belt
-pirate boots
-the outside undies
- that weird scaly looking material for top of torso

otherwise its basically what I want for Avengers

[RogueDK]

The main point of the Cap suit is to look like an American Flag so it attracts attention to Cap, away from his fellow soldiers and to inspire his fellow soldiers. That 616 meets those requirements. UNDENIABLE.
Fixed.

Don't worry...you'll thank me later after you witness Cap's awesomeness in the classic gear. :cwink:

[Webhead2006]

I still think that he should start with the Ultimate WWII suit and evolve it during the course of the movie. Either the army comes up with a better alternative to the wool based army uniforms of the 40s and more toward a slimmer lighter material (that maybe Howard Stark helps design and they make it into a plate or chainmail armor) Then we can get both costumes in the movie.
Yea i think it would go well like that. Ultimates ww2 suit looks good and add a few modfications it would look great. Then either like u said by the end of the film design a more classic look suit. OR like i and others have said hold off to doing a full 616 look for avengers. Where it can be made by stark/shield and be a special light weight body armor type of stuff.

[Infinity9999x]

Fixed.

Don't worry...you'll thank me later after you witness Cap's awesomeness in the classic gear. :cwink:


The WWII outfit does meet every one of those criteria. Red and white stripes? Check. Blue bodysuit? Check. Big ass white star on his chest? Check.

It's just a revisionized design. And again, we all know they're going to put the 616 look in the Avengers movie. Heck, I don't mind them putting it in the solo movie, but honestly, why can't we have the WWII outift in the solo movie too?

We could do a TDK-like thing. Start him out in the WWII suit and he "upgrades" to the 616 style suit.

What's wrong with using a look that,

1.) Retains most of the classic motifs, yet is a fresh and new look
2.) Is obviously popular
3.) Won't be replacing anything, since we all know we're going to get the 616 look eventually.

[Chris Wallace]

Look, that hideous monstrosity they came up with in "Ultimates" may get the job done. But it lacks a superhero signature. And it downplays the motif to the point where he looks like he's embarrassed to wear the flag.
I reiterate, it's in the same vein as this.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/ghostofjealousy/Spider03.jpg
Gets the job done for his intro, but that's all it does.
I could live with him wearing a scaled-down version of the suit for part of the movie, but I wouldn't want to see it for 2 full hours. Hell, there's no reason I can see why they couldn't improve on the suit BEFORE WWII ends-as long as they don't upgrade to that sorry "Ultimized" version.

[Ace of Knaves]

What the hell are you talking about?

How does the WWII downplay the flag motif? How would he look embarrassed to wear it?

It looks like an official military uniform but customized to fulfill the needs of a soldier that is supposed to draw enemy fire towards him and inspire his fellow Americans.

And those are the REAL needs of the Captain America suit. Not ****ing pirate boots and wings on his head.

[Chris Wallace]

Muted color scheme, all the brown, how can you NOT say it's downplayed?
And again, I would lend some credibility to the complaints about the boots & the wings had I heard them BEFORE "Ultimates" came about. But I didn't. Not once. So nobody minded them until we saw Patriotic Commando.

[roach]

another point since it was anounced that the Invaders will be in the movie are we expecting Union Jack to be in a British army uniform thats just painted in its colors too...what about Namor or Spitfire???

[Steve Holt]

another point since it was anounced that the Invaders will be in the movie are we expecting Union Jack to be in a British army uniform thats just painted in its colors too...what about Namor or Spitfire???


pretty sure there was no official announcement, the closest thing i remember was Feige saying "chance for international cast" or something close

[afan]

another point since it was anounced that the Invaders will be in the movie are we expecting Union Jack to be in a British army uniform thats just painted in its colors too...what about Namor or Spitfire???

Namor.......Now that will be the wing debate to end all wing debates:cwink:

[RogueDK]

Namor.......Now that will be the wing debate to end all wing debates:cwink:
:hehe: Take away his anklets and Spock ears and he would be "plausible" for general audiences...

[Raiden]

I like the Ultimate Cap design, with a helmet that lacks the wings but seems less "ridiculous" unlike the 616 Cap. So for the movie, I hope they will lean toward his Ultimate design, becaue it combines realism but still retains Cap's classic look. I want his costume to inspire, not cringe.

[roach]

From today's update on Thor: "He also said that "the sets are huge and truly beautiful, some of the best [I]'ve ever seen. All the characters have amazing costumes. The designers have done an extraordinary job at maintaining the traditional Marvel looks all the fans are expecting, but adding their own new style."

seems to me Marvel is going with th traditional (616) costumes for their characters

[Blackman]

From today's update on Thor: "He also said that "the sets are huge and truly beautiful, some of the best [I]'ve ever seen. All the characters have amazing costumes. The designers have done an extraordinary job at maintaining the traditional Marvel looks all the fans are expecting, but adding their own new style."

seems to me Marvel is going with th traditional (616) costumes for their characters
yeah it seems like they are going with 616 designs. Which Im happy with

Ultimate Iron Man design...terrible
Ultimate Hulk design...bad
Ultimate THor...eh I just prefer 616

Hopefully with Captain they do the same thing.

[Aesop Rocks]

This is from "The Marvels Project #5"

And it's perfection.

http://i50.tinypic.com/ndjtww.png

[Art_of_Crime]

During WWII (His solo movie) this:

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/4929/074kr.jpg


In modern times (The Avengers) this:

http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/219/937/07/CaptainAmerica_Head3.jpg

agree 100%

love the WWII costume. I have always loved that version of his costume.

[roach]

This is from "The Marvels Project #5"

And it's perfection.

http://i50.tinypic.com/ndjtww.png

this should be his first costume

[NoirMan82]

I really think the Ultimate look is the way to go for the solo flick, but it would be best if they ditched that ugly flight mask for the more familiar cowl look. That would make a perfect blend IMO.

[louiebling$]

I don't like anything in the Ultimate Universe.. id rather they not put anything Ultimate in the movies.

Yes I know Ultimate Fury is already there.(I would prefer they went 616 with him aswell)

[Turtles]

Muted color scheme, all the brown, how can you NOT say it's downplayed?
And again, I would lend some credibility to the complaints about the boots & the wings had I heard them BEFORE "Ultimates" came about. But I didn't. Not once. So nobody minded them until we saw Patriotic Commando.

Tell me, do you invalidate the complaints people have about VHS tapes just because they never had those complaints until DVDs came out? Do you invalidate the complaints people have about regular TV just because they never had those complaints until HDTV came out? Do you invalidate all the complaints people have about their old cars just because they didn't have those complaints until they got their new cars? Do you invalidate the complaints old people have about outhouses simply because they only had those complaints after they discovered a little thing called indoor plumbing?

It's normal for people to complain about things only AFTER they've realized there is something better out there, because people need to have something to compare things to before they can judge how good something really is. People aren't going to complain about something if they're convinced that the something they have is as good as it's ever going to get, and that's why no one complained about 616 Cap's costumes until the Ultimates came out. Cap fans had it bashed into their heads that 616 Cap's costume was the way the costume was always going to be, end of story, so they came to accept it. It didn't matter whether or not they liked it, because they didn't know of any alternative (until Ultimates came out).

[roach]

This isnt about technology changing.You dont know about DVD back then.I can guess people complained about VHS taking too long to rewind. This is a costume. How many people complained about the wings or boots before Ultimates? How many people complained about it after Ultimates??? Nobody. Hell when the redesigned the costume for Bucky they kept the boots and wings. What costume did they use when they announced to the world that Cap was dead? No one was embarrassed then.

[RogueDK]

This is a costume. How many people complained about the wings or boots before Ultimates? Nobody.
*golf clap* :word:

[NoirMan82]

*golf clap* :word:

I did. When ever I would draw Cap I would leave out the wings and replace the pirate boots with combat boots. I also ditched the scale armor. Never liked any of those aspects.

[Rage]

I've hated the boots and the wings since I was little (30 years ago) and only now realize that the wings are important (after the ultimates) but the boots are still a sore issue with me. So don't generalize and say NOBODY complained. I hated drawing those f'ning boots for decades!! I think they look silly and would have got rid of them in a heartbeat had I been asked to redesign Cap. For the record.... I hated them on Cyclops and Martian Manhunter and every other character too.

[roach]

and your design wouldnt have been picked.

[RogueDK]

I did. When ever I would draw Cap I would leave out the wings and replace the pirate boots with combat boots. I also ditched the scale armor. Never liked any of those aspects.
Funny. When I draw him, I always implement the aesthetics that are synomynous with Cap: WINGS & PIRATE BOOTS.

I've always liked those aspects of him probably because that is what I grew up with. Were there certain little quirks I didn't like about a superhero's costume growing up? Absolutely to be fair.
Captain America's 616 costume is just as iconic as Superman's or Batman's.

Even my kid hates the Ultimate look of Cap & Thor (he just think they look terrible) and it's not through any influence from me. He's a strong-opinioned kid when it comes to his Marvel fanboy-ness.

I can't knock anyone's preference here for what they want. I can respect that some of you want WW2/Ultimate Cap. You're on dope for wanting it...but I can respect that.
But I hope that you don't get it...I really hope they go 616. :hehe:

[Chris Wallace]

Edit.

[Chris Wallace]

I've hated the boots and the wings since I was little (30 years ago) and only now realize that the wings are important (after the ultimates) but the boots are still a sore issue with me. So don't generalize and say NOBODY complained. I hated drawing those f'ning boots for decades!! I think they look silly and would have got rid of them in a heartbeat had I been asked to redesign Cap. For the record.... I hated them on Cyclops and Martian Manhunter and every other character too.

Did I say "noone complained' or that I never heard anyone complain? And I stand fairly confident that the pre-"Ultimates" naysayers were a small and not very vocal minority. I always thought they could improve on Spider-Man's back symbol, (I always thought it looked like a crab) but even with the liberties that Alex Ross took, I doubt anyone took what I said seriously until the first movie.
For me it comes down to this; the "Ultimate" designs-either of them-simply DO NOT say "Captain America" to me. I don't like them. I want to see the Captain America that I grew up with, with a few minor but reasonable modifications. Not a commando who likes the flag. A superhero who PROUDLY wears it.

[RogueDK]

I always thought they could improve on Spider-Man's back symbol, (I always thought it looked like a crab)
LOL. As a little boy, I always thought it looked like a tick. Not a deal breaker for me though.

[Chris Wallace]

LOL. As a little boy, I always thought it looked like a tick. Not a deal breaker for me though.Every time I say it looks like a crab, somebody says it looks like a tick. But NOBODY comes forth to defend it & says it looks like a spider. Jim Acheson corrected the one true flaw that the original costume had.

[Rich Santoro]

I like the wings... the boots are OK. I did read an issue of Wizard like 15 years ago that did an analysis of costumes. Cap's was regarded as one of the best, but the writers did pan the boots a bit. Just pointing out that the boots have been complained about by sources more credible than just individual fans.

[Rage]

and your design wouldnt have been picked.

HAHAHAHAHA. I'm sorry Mr. Feige, didn't realize that you've been online all this time posting as roach. :o

So if I designed the costume and it had everything from the 616 costume except the boots... you as head of Marvel Entertainment would nix it? Yet you'd approve a Hulk that doesn't wear Purple Pants? :woot:

Cap's look (while very similar) has changed drastically over the years, depending on the artist. He went from undies on the outside, a thin black belt, an exposed neck and... A HELMET.... to the Ultimate version (which is in print and does not have pirate boots by the way) :cwink: So maybe my design would see the light of day (since all I would really change is the belt and the boots...both of which have been changed in the comics on 616 cap)

I still think that they need to introduce the Ultimates costume and have Steve complain/re-design a better costume and have it implemented and revealed at the end of the movie for the Climactic ending.

I think that the Ultimate version makes sense for a soldier, but Cap would find the materials too bulky for his combat style, the helmet flawed because it would constantly fall off. The goggles fog up...ect. Then he designs HIS costume... not the army. Makes it more personal.

[Rage]

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3780/siegeendstheavengers201.jpg

THis is the ONLY image I have ever seen that makes those boots look respectable and not goofy. (Ironman looks a little goofy though) Adi Granov (sp?) captured almost everything I would like to see in the Cap costume in that pic. The colour and texture of the the boots and gloves. (still not a huge fan of the pirate boots... but this picture makes them seem ALOT less silly) The texture of the pants and the belt. The heavy duty look of the white undershirt. I'm not a fan of the shiny scales... I'd prefer them darker and duller. I'd drop the neck and mask off and replace with a similar mask/helmet (with metal wings) and you have an awesome look for the movie.... alhtough, I wouldn't miss the flair on those boots if it disappeared :D

[Rage]

double post

[Infinity9999x]

Funny. When I draw him, I always implement the aesthetics that are synomynous with Cap: WINGS & PIRATE BOOTS.

I've always liked those aspects of him probably because that is what I grew up with. Were there certain little quirks I didn't like about a superhero's costume growing up? Absolutely to be fair.
Captain America's 616 costume is just as iconic as Superman's or Batman's.




Well...no, not really. Supes and Bats are world-wide icons. Everyone knows them the instant they see them. With Cap...people kind of know who he is, but he's not nearly as well-known or as recognizable as Bats or Superman.

[Blackman]

I'll say the wings are part of the iconic Cap, but the boots not so much

[roach]

HAHAHAHAHA. I'm sorry Mr. Feige, didn't realize that you've been online all this time posting as roach. :o

So if I designed the costume and it had everything from the 616 costume except the boots... you as head of Marvel Entertainment would nix it? Yet you'd approve a Hulk that doesn't wear Purple Pants? :woot:

Cap's look (while very similar) has changed drastically over the years, depending on the artist. He went from undies on the outside, a thin black belt, an exposed neck and... A HELMET.... to the Ultimate version (which is in print and does not have pirate boots by the way) :cwink: So maybe my design would see the light of day (since all I would really change is the belt and the boots...both of which have been changed in the comics on 616 cap)

I still think that they need to introduce the Ultimates costume and have Steve complain/re-design a better costume and have it implemented and revealed at the end of the movie for the Climactic ending.

I think that the Ultimate version makes sense for a soldier, but Cap would find the materials too bulky for his combat style, the helmet flawed because it would constantly fall off. The goggles fog up...ect. Then he designs HIS costume... not the army. Makes it more personal.

we were talking about the redesign for Cap-bucky. Look at the design that Marvel went with. They kept the wings and boots.Obviously they see that the boots and wings are important parts of Cap's costume.
Marvel is tying these movies together. Iron Man is the 616 armor, Hulk was the 616 version, Thor will be in the classic 616 costume, Black Widow is in her 616 costume...so why would Marvel go Ultimate with Cap???

[Rage]

I think you and I are not on the same page roach. I was NEVER talking about the Cap/Bucky redisign... I'm saying that I want a very classic 616 version of Cap's costume for the movie... just not right away. And the one change I would make is the boots.

I also think that the ONLY cool thing about the Bucky Cap's costume is the way the shield shape works along the top of his abs... that more angular and pointed shape leading into the abs. I HATE the metallic blue reflecting material. I HATE that his ears are covered up.... and I HATE the boots :D

And I never suggested that they go with Ultimate Cap... just that they use his costume for part of the movie (much like they used the grey armor in Iron Man) Its a tip of the hat to fans of the comic. It ads a touch of realism to the story (because that is probably what the army would try and dress him in... but in reality that costume doesn't suit his fighting style and is actually WAY to clunky for Cap) And... its a bridge between soldiers uniform and the iconic 616 cap look that we are all used to.

While you say they are using 616 versions of the these characters.... the Incredible Hulk was HEAVILY based on the TV series while still staying true to comics (except for the purple pants) Iron man was fairly true to the comics except for the armor which they changed to make it... MORE BELIEVABLE than skin tight yellow micro steel fibers that he carries in a suit case. We hear that they are staying true to the look of the Asgardians...but the jury is still out until we see what they come up with. Nick Fury is TOTALLY Ultimates. To say that it is TOTALLY 616 all the way is not true.

[Whiskey Tango]

And again, I would lend some credibility to the complaints about the boots & the wings had I heard them BEFORE "Ultimates" came about. But I didn't. Not once. So nobody minded them until we saw Patriotic Commando.

That's funny, I remember plenty of people complaining about this-

http://i46.tinypic.com/6fczr8.jpg

since 1990, long before Ultimates ever came out. Where were you?

[roach]

That's funny, I remember plenty of people complaining about this-

http://i46.tinypic.com/6fczr8.jpg

since 1990, long before Ultimates ever came out. Where were you?

were they complaining about the boots and wings or were they complaining that it was a crappy costume

[Wolvieboy17]

Roach, you are the most stubborn fanboy ever. Wouldn't you rather that justice is done to portray the Character of Steve Roger, instead of making him look exactly like his comic counterpart? Can't you see the benefit, or necessity when adapting to film, to trim around the edges or make changes? And surely, thinking for a GA, you could see why Caps 616 costume might be hard for them to swallow and take seriously, right from the outset?

Why can't they build up to it for the Avengers movie?

[Whiskey Tango]

were they complaining about the boots and wings or were they complaining that it was a crappy costume

Does it matter? It works in the comics but onscreen it looks ridiculous. And if you put the dumbass wings and buccaneer boots on the new suit, it'll still look goofy.

I'm not saying the Ultimate suit is perfect, but it looks a damn sight closer to what the military might actually put on a guy like Cap than the classic duds.

[RogueDK]

That's funny, I remember plenty of people complaining about this-

http://i46.tinypic.com/6fczr8.jpg

since 1990, long before Ultimates ever came out. Where were you?
I remember many people complaining that the movie sucked, from a pacing and story perspective, but no one that I've heard from had an issue with the costume per se. Not saying that there wasn't anyone complaining about his getup, I just don't recall any.

I rather liked the attempt of staying authentic with his look back then and I still like it despite being a cheap production overall. This bad movie is a guilty pleasure for me.

[Whiskey Tango]

To be fair, a large portion of the complaints about that outfit are focused on the rubber ears. :woot:

Anyway, I don't know why I get so wound up about this ****. Spider-Man & Fantastic Four had great looking tights-style costumes, I'm sure whatever they come up with for Caps modern day suit will be cool too. I do really like that Bryan Hitch WW2 outfit though.

[RogueDK]

To be fair, a large portion of the complaints about that outfit are focused on the rubber ears. :woot:


Well, yeah. Even I thought that was uncalled for. :hehe:

Anyway, I don't know why I get so wound up about this ****. Spider-Man & Fantastic Four had great looking tights-style costumes, I'm sure whatever they come up with for Caps modern day suit will be cool too. I do really like that Bryan Hitch WW2 outfit though.
Just being human, man; everyone wants to be right, etc.

I know that Marvel won't drop the ball on this thing. Somehow, I think that they will find a way to appease both sides of the fence so that we will all shut-up about Cap's attire.

Like I said, I PREFER & WANT 616. Maybe I won't get it in this movie but it would be a big disappointment, for a film of this stature, to ignore the significance of something like that when he's sported the aesthetic in the comics for years.

[Blackman]

That's funny, I remember plenty of people complaining about this-

http://i46.tinypic.com/6fczr8.jpg

since 1990, long before Ultimates ever came out. Where were you?
But really its a cheap suit overall. And the wing designs on it look bad too. Its not a good example of why wings in general are bad

[jab1118]

My guess is that the costume we end up with will not be 616 or ultimate. It will be the movie universe costume. It will take things from both and then add in things of its own. I mean thats usually what happens. They take the basic look of the character and then redesign it for live action and I think it usually turns out pretty good

[roach]

Roach, you are the most stubborn fanboy ever. Wouldn't you rather that justice is done to portray the Character of Steve Roger, instead of making him look exactly like his comic counterpart? Can't you see the benefit, or necessity when adapting to film, to trim around the edges or make changes? And surely, thinking for a GA, you could see why Caps 616 costume might be hard for them to swallow and take seriously, right from the outset?

Why can't they build up to it for the Avengers movie?

Why do you assume that you cant have a good portrayal of Captain America/Steve Rogers in the 616 costume???
The 616 costume can be done and made to not look silly. The GA will buy anything you sell them in a movie. We expect them to buy the pinnacle of the Nazi regime will hide behind a red skull mask, we expect them to buy a super soldier serum, we expect them to buy an indestructable shield that he throws and always comes back to him.
I do expect that the movie will be different from the books. Im pretty sure Bucky probably wont be in the movie. I can understand that. My feeling on the matter are that if you are doing a character how has a classic costume then that costume should be used.

[Rage]

roach: You....er...Kevin Feige said that Bucky would be in the movie. ;)

So we can expect Bucky (but hopefully not in his sidekick suit) but instead as a soldier and personal friend of Caps.

[Rage]

roach: I would assume... AND HOPE... that they establish that the shield doesn't come back on its own, but rather Cap is a Geometry whiz and meets the shield where it is going to be... its not a boomerang afterall. Those are the little details that a good script can help you accept instead of just yelling out "WHATEVER!"

[roach]

If they mentioned Bucky was going to be in the film I havent read it and I am happy if he does make it in the film.
The General Audience will allow you to do whatever you want to in a film as long as you establish that its part of the world they are viewing. It allows them to believe that Neo can stop bullets, Bilbo can turn invisible by putting on a ring, James Bond can take out an army of soldiers with his handgun or that a blue naked man can do everything he did in Watchmen.
If they introduce us to a world of heroes and mystery men other that Cap(The Invaders) then his costume will not be silly.
I think you are trying to picture the 616 costume in Saving Private Ryan and thats not going to work.

[Rage]

Good arguement. I would retort with this. The movie is called The First Avenger, which would lead me to believe that he is probably the first Super Human that the world will come to know.... so if that is the case, then the rules set forth at the beginning of the film (of there being NO SUPER HUMANS) leads me to think that you need to make the things he does SEEM reasonable. I don't think that Cap "meeting" his shield somewhere because he's figured out the angle/math is that crazy. Having the shield come right back...probably is.

[roach]

well to counter your retort the movie is called First Avenger not First Hero or First Superhero

[Rage]

I thought of that. But looking at the other Marvel Studios movies... we are lead to believe that the GA doesn't know about Super Powered beings. People were in Awe when they saw the hulk and Abomination. They were in awe to see Ironman.... so they would have probably been in awe to see Cap.

Now if it was known that there was a Submariner and a Human Torch or Olympian/Norse Gods running around, maybe the GA would be less in awe of those other things. The Marvel Studios movie-verse has set a precedent that the GA has little or no knowlege of superhumans.... So Cap would probably be the first (if the GA even knows about him)

[roach]

However I have to recall Fury's words to Stark at the end of Iron Man..."You think you're the only one."

[Aesop Rocks]

Maybe Thor takes place before Iron Man, maybe Thor already met with Fury and shown him his stuff and Fury deemed him a "Superhero". I kind of don't want Thor to be all for it in the beginning though, like Stark.

[roach]

"we're putting together a team."
whose "we"

[Rage]

SHIELD I would think. Maybe CA takes place before Ironman and Ironman takes place before the Hulk. What we do know is that CAP is going to be taking place (for the most part in WWII) before IM and TIH. What we don't know is when the "bookends" will take place in the Marvel "movie-verse"

I suspect that the "we" in TIH was Stark and Fury.... and the team at that point probably involved Ironman and some second rate heroes like Hawkeye and Black Widow. MAYBE they already have Cap... but I doubt it.

[roach]

My thought:
CA takes place before IM and IHas it takes place in WW2.
Thor could possible take place before it all.
Iron Man takes place before Incredible Hulk as Stark and Ross mention Stark's "suit".

[Aesop Rocks]

Maybe? It HAS to. It's in WW2.

[Rage]

Stupid double posts!!

[Wolvieboy17]

Well technically, IH takes place after IM 2, because Stark still hasn't been convinced by Fury during that film.

The GA will buy anything you sell them in a movie. We expect them to buy the pinnacle of the Nazi regime will hide behind a red skull mask, we expect them to buy a super soldier serum, we expect them to buy an indestructable shield that he throws and always comes back to him.

Wow Roach, you could get a job at Fox studios with the complete contempt you have for a general audience. They're not idiots. If its not sold the right way, people won't buy into it. Sure the serum and stuff aren't realistic, but if you bound it on, with realish stuff on either side, thats how you sell it. You don't just go "hmmm, well this aspect already defies realism, so lets just go crazy and make him fly." And caps classic costume, in all its glory, and as much love as I have for it in the comic world, is the epitome of what comic book movies have been trying to tone down...Camp, brightly coloured, impractical stylistic features.

You keep saying he's a superhero, but he isn't, not in this context. He is an expensive, living government military weapon. They're not gonna send him into the field innequipped. And as far as the colours go on the costume, its not about making him as bright and glaringly obvious as possible, its essentially the equivalent of someone plainting an American flag on their tank. Its symbolic, but in cinema, the audience doesn't need to have symbols rammed down their throat.

[darthlaney]

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk28/laney_74/The_First_Avenger.jpg

As shown on this image that I posted on page 76 - I would like some detail in the silouette - The 'A' and his chest star even would be cool. Sort of like the 50th Anniversary image that Marvel put on all their comics, but minus the face and eye detail. The costume would need to be more than just army fatigues for this to work - it needs to have recognisable elements and shape.

While the GA might not be able to recognise it, the CA fan base would.

Much like the poster for Burtons Batman - it took a minute to recognise the image due to so much negative space - but once you focussed on that it was a very cool image (and very simple)

[roach]

Well technically, IH takes place after IM 2, because Stark still hasn't been convinced by Fury during that film.



Wow Roach, you could get a job at Fox studios with the complete contempt you have for a general audience. They're not idiots. If its not sold the right way, people won't buy into it. Sure the serum and stuff aren't realistic, but if you bound it on, with realish stuff on either side, thats how you sell it. You don't just go "hmmm, well this aspect already defies realism, so lets just go crazy and make him fly." And caps classic costume, in all its glory, and as much love as I have for it in the comic world, is the epitome of what comic book movies have been trying to tone down...Camp, brightly coloured, impractical stylistic features.

You keep saying he's a superhero, but he isn't, not in this context. He is an expensive, living government military weapon. They're not gonna send him into the field innequipped. And as far as the colours go on the costume, its not about making him as bright and glaringly obvious as possible, its essentially the equivalent of someone plainting an American flag on their tank. Its symbolic, but in cinema, the audience doesn't need to have symbols rammed down their throat.

You misunderstand me. I dont have contempt for the GA.The point I was making is exactly what you said.
However the moment they decided to put him in a costume he was no longer a soldier he was a superhero. If Dr Erskine wasnt killed was the US gonna dress the rest of the supersoldier regiment in that costume???? Soldiers fight soldiers. You dont call in Cap to fight Nazi soldiers. You call him in to fight the Red Skull, Baron Zemo, Nazi vampires, giant robots

[darthlaney]

You misunderstand me. I dont have contempt for the GA.The point I was making is exactly what you said.
However the moment they decided to put him in a costume he was no longer a soldier he was a superhero. If Dr Erskine wasnt killed was the US gonna dress the rest of the supersoldier regiment in that costume???? Soldiers fight soldiers. You dont call in Cap to fight Nazi soldiers. You call him in to fight the Red Skull, Baron Zemo, Nazi vampires, giant robots

Marvel is restructuring all of their origins - while this is very similar, this comes from 'The Marvel's Project' - Cap isn't even sure himself of wht he is - but its more than the original intention of making him just one of many 'super soldiers' - he is now an icon of hope to negate the Nazi's own super soldier.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk28/laney_74/TMP05020.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk28/laney_74/TMP05021.jpg

[Rage]

Good point roach... but do you think that those villains would come out and fight him without a hoard of Nazi soldiers at their beck and call to.... soften him up?

Cap will fight whoever gets in his way. He doesn't care if its a normal Nazi soldier or the Hulk. He may not fight a granny if she gets in his way... but almost anyone else ;)

I think that Steve wants to be a soldier, that is why he enlisted. What he ends up being is a symbol and a hero... but I don't think that is what he set out to be in the beginning.

That is why I like the entire soldier motif early and then switching to the symbolic leader of men and hero that he becomes. 2 COSTUMES PLEASE!!

[Rage]

Marvel is restructuring all of their origins - while this is very similar, this comes from 'The Marvel's Project' - Cap isn't even sure himself of wht he is - but its more than the original intention of making him just one of many 'super soldiers' - he is now an icon of hope to negate the Nazi's own super soldier.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk28/laney_74/TMP05020.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk28/laney_74/TMP05021.jpg

Wow! That looks awesome! I'll have to find this and read it.

I also suggest that people read the adventures of Captain America the sentinel of liberty for an understanding of how Cap became who he is today.... great read.

[darthlaney]

Agree the story was great - I didn't like the art much though - Cap always looked strange to me and I wasn't a fan of the scale mail then and hated even more when John Cassady made it mainstream (and still with us) - Personally I always liked the micro-chain mail that Tom Morgan (and others drew - see issues 329 to 331)

Example - its more texture and as such more flexible-
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk28/laney_74/cap6.jpg

[Turtles]

You keep saying he's a superhero, but he isn't, not in this context. He is an expensive, living government military weapon. They're not gonna send him into the field innequipped. And as far as the colours go on the costume, its not about making him as bright and glaringly obvious as possible, its essentially the equivalent of someone plainting an American flag on their tank. Its symbolic, but in cinema, the audience doesn't need to have symbols rammed down their throat.


However the moment they decided to put him in a costume he was no longer a soldier he was a superhero. If Dr Erskine wasnt killed was the US gonna dress the rest of the supersoldier regiment in that costume???? Soldiers fight soldiers. You dont call in Cap to fight Nazi soldiers. You call him in to fight the Red Skull, Baron Zemo, Nazi vampires, giant robots

(Note the fact that I'm talking about how he might be perceived by people IN THE COMICS, not by people reading the comics.)

Back in WWII the costume was all for show; it gave Captain America symbol status, not superhero status. Because even after donning the costume, Captain America is referred to as a super soldier more often than a superhero, and his very name, Captain America, plays up the soldier angle instead of the superhero angle by incorporating a military rank. The soldier before hero angle is further reinforced by the fact that Captain America, more often than not, follows orders and goes on missions given to him by the U.S. military. Superheroes don't work for the government (until after Civil War:oldrazz:)

In my opinion, it was only after Cap joined the Avengers, and started operating separately from the military/government, that he was granted true superhero status.

I think the Ultimates illustrated this wonderfully in the first few issues. They showed Cap wearing a simplified costume back in WWII, but after he was unfrozen and he joined the Avengers he was given a more elaborate, superhero style costume that signaled his evolution from super soldier to superhero.

As for the colors....I don't care if people think the Ultimates colors are muted in compared to Cap's original colors, because THEY ARE THE ACTUAL COLORS ON THE AMERICAN FLAG! The colors on the flag aren't as bright as those often depicted on classic Cap's costume, and I'm not part of the "any shade will do" crowd.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/800px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/800px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/87/1974ComicArtCon_book.jpg/180px-1974ComicArtCon_book.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/87/1974ComicArtCon_book.jpg/180px-1974ComicArtCon_book.jpg)

See, not the same!

Why do you assume that you cant have a good portrayal of Captain America/Steve Rogers in the 616 costume???
The 616 costume can be done and made to not look silly. The GA will buy anything you sell them in a movie. We expect them to buy the pinnacle of the Nazi regime will hide behind a red skull mask, we expect them to buy a super soldier serum, we expect them to buy an indestructable shield that he throws and always comes back to him.
I do expect that the movie will be different from the books. Im pretty sure Bucky probably wont be in the movie. I can understand that. My feeling on the matter are that if you are doing a character how has a classic costume then that costume should be used.

Take TDK. Now, put Christian Bale in a replica of Adam West's old gray and black Batman suit. Your result? A movie that the general audience does not like because the main character's costume makes him seem out of place and stupid compared to everything else. Does it matter that the costume is more accurate to the comics? NO! Because 75% of people who watch the movie have never picked up a Batman comic in their life and they don't realize it's more accurate to the comics.

It's the exact same thing with Captain America. Despite what you may think, Captain America is not a well-know superhero, and most of the general audience doesn't realizes that pirate boots and tiny wings have been part of his costume for years. So when they see Cap appear on screen fighting Nazi's in his pirate boots and head wings, they're not going to say "hey, cool, he's got a costume, he's a superhero!" They're going to say "Why did that guy steal a pair of Jack Sparrow's boots?" and "Hey, look, Captain America just drank a Red Bull!"

You seem to be forgetting that the general audience has never been asked to accept a costume with over the top design elements like Cap's pirate boots, wings, and scale mail. Spider-Man's costume? That's just a brightly colored bodysuit, nothing over the top there. X-Men? All made to wear black leather so over the top costumes don't come into play. Fantastic four? Plain blue bodysuits, and I did notice that black was added to the legs in the second film. Daredevil? Bodysuit. Superman? Bodysuit with a cape. Batman? Black armor. Iron Man? The Mark III was based on the modern Extremis armor and the design steered well clear of any early 616 designs. The Hulk? No purple pants. Nick Fury and SHIELD? Well, nobody is wearing a skin tight blue bodysuit with white straps, now are they?

Looks are important to the people in the general audience. The general audience doesn't mind it when movie characters do unbelievable things, just so long as those characters look cool/acceptable while doing it. Most comic book characters wouldn't look cool or acceptable to the general audience in their 616 fashion, they'd look like a joke, and that would ruin the movie for a lot of people no matter how great it was.

[Wolvieboy17]

I 100% agree with everything you say Turtle. The problem with Roach's idea of what the Cap movie should be, is that it doesn't fit in at all with the other Marvel movies that it's supposed to be connected to. They've tried to set all these characters in a real, modern world setting, and that has meant cutting out or limiting the aspects that don't fit into that setting.
Roach seems to just want a carbon copy of Comic cap on the big screen. I can understand that. As a Wolvie fan, i'd love to one day see an awesomely recreated version of his classic brown and tan costume, but I can at least respect that it would have been a hard sell, and i'm glad they didn't go down that road, because it would have really distracted from the real world tone they're trying to sell.

[chris moore]

The Marvels project page posted above pretty much nails it as far as explaining what he is, and reasoning why the costume is now a costume and not the uniform they probably had in mind before Erskine died.

[some guy]

I voted modern Ultimate with helmet because I thought it would look good on film, but I'm actually torn about it. It would look great when the story shifts to the modern setting, but I'm not sure if it looks like something that could exist in WW2. I'm 50/50 about the WW2 Ultimate uniform. And of course, I still have a soft spot for the 616 look. As for the wings, if people think its too silly, maybe wing-like designs on the side of the helmet (or hood) would do.

[Triad]

I also suggest that people read the adventures of Captain America the sentinel of liberty for an understanding of how Cap became who he is today.... great read.
I just read those! I could live with it if Marvel/Johnston goes that route on film. There are a few tweaks I would make, (C'mon, like you didn't see the surprise twist coming from a mile away!) but overall it was solid storytelling. I liked his costume too...minus the exposed neck and trapezius. Recommended...very entertaining.

[skiddyboy]

Here are some designs I found that could be interesting on the screen:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/138/4/c/Captain_America_Sketch_by_Bunk2.jpg






http://th04.deviantart.net/fs51/300W/i/2009/310/9/4/Ultimate_Captain_America_V__2_by_Marvel_Fan.




http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs25/i/2008/169/7/b/Captain_America_Dev_by_rocketraygun.jpg

[JackIvyGB]

That first one is BRILLIANT, though I'm sure many will throw a stink about the gun holster on his leg. He could do with out it though.

The 2nd one veers too far into Batman terriotory. There has to be a balance between powers and costume armor. Superman is impenetrable. Spidey has spidey sense and dodges bullets. They need little to no armor. Batman is completely human. He needs the armor. Cap isn't Superman, but he isn't batman either. His costume should have reasonable protective qualities, but not a full armor suit.

Again, I LOVE the first one. It almost reminds me of the work of SHH! user BUNK, but his signature is usually on his stuff. I wonder if he did it...

[skiddyboy]

That first one is BRILLIANT, though I'm sure many will throw a stink about the gun holster on his leg. He could do with out it though.

The 2nd one veers too far into Batman terriotory. There has to be a balance between powers and costume armor. Superman is impenetrable. Spidey has spidey sense and dodges bullets. They need little to no armor. Batman is completely human. He needs the armor. Cap isn't Superman, but he isn't batman either. His costume should have reasonable protective qualities, but not a full armor suit.

Again, I LOVE the first one. It almost reminds me of the work of SHH! user BUNK, but his signature is usually on his stuff. I wonder if he did it...



JackIvyGB, I agree with you, but Capt is still human, he's not bullet proof so would still need protection.

The first design is by BUNK, so good call.

[roach]

I dont like either costume. They are too bulky. Remember in Incredible Hulk when Blonski fought Hulk. He was flipping around and all agile and stuff....that was a preview of how Cap moves...I just dont see him doing that in that bulky costumes...yes he shoul have some protection but thats what the shield is for

[skiddyboy]

I dont like either costume. They are too bulky. Remember in Incredible Hulk when Blonski fought Hulk. He was flipping around and all agile and stuff....that was a preview of how Cap moves...I just dont see him doing that in that bulky costumes...yes he shoul have some protection but thats what the shield is for


So what would you like to see him in...a unitard?, lycra...never a good look when on screen.
Captain America will never look like what he did in the comic books simply because nobody looks like that in real life.

If Stark is involved with developement of his armour, then I guarantee that it will look more like the posts above than a spandex suit.

[JackIvyGB]

JackIvyGB, I agree with you, but Capt is still human, he's not bullet proof so would still need protection.

The first design is by BUNK, so good call.

Oh definitely! I'm not saying he doesn't need protection! That's why I said he isn't superman. He can do things that Batman can't though, which we saw with Blonsky fighting Hulk. So while he certainly needs some protection, it probably doesn't need to be as extensive as Batman's would be.

[Nathan]

I agree with the second design, but the first one up there doesn't strike me as bulky. It looks like combat pants with knee pads and the top has a padded chest piece, that could probably be made of some bulletproof material. Otherwise I don't see how it would hinder Cap's athletic movements.

[NoirMan82]

I like the top design as well, I would just tweek the belt and holster.

[marcvader]

Why does everyone go to " what do you want lycra, spandex?" when someone says they don't like the modern bulky armored look. This is scifi after all. They shouldn't be limited to using everyday riotgear looking armor. Any material or fabric can be explained by being created by Stark solely for Steve Rogers, a superacrobatic and superagile soldier. I agree his suite shouldn't be silk thin but the realism doesn't need to go to the level of him looking like an armored tank.

[Triad]

Personally, I like a semi-armored look for Captain America. (light scale-mail and some kevlar padding) But in all fairness to people that are saying that it's bulk is necessary for realism's sake, I remember reading somewhere that the U.S. Army has been developing a "smart shirt" body armor that is as thin as cloth & uses nanotechnology. When pressure is applied to any portion of it the nanos concentrate in that area to harden & prevent puncture and provide some shock absorption. It never fails...technology in real life eventually mirrors anything that fiction can create!

[marcvader]

dub

[marcvader]

That's what i'm talking about.

[Webhead2006]

that first one is pretty cool design.

[Blackman]

Personally, I like a semi-armored look for Captain America. (light scale-mail and some kevlar padding) But in all fairness to people that are saying that it's bulk is necessary for realism's sake, I remember reading somewhere that the U.S. Army has been developing a "smart shirt" body armor that is as thin as cloth & uses nanotechnology. When pressure is applied to any portion of it the nanos concentrate in that area to harden & prevent puncture and provide some shock absorption. It never fails...technology in real life eventually mirrors anything that fiction can create!
I definietly agree that Cap needs some kind of body Armor but I'm not sure how it could look. Maybe it would be under his normal suit. IDK but Thor, Giant Man, Iron Man, and Hulk all have invulnerability but others like Cap and Hawkeye should have some sort of armor

[roach]

or maybe they are adding fast healing to Cap's abilities since Blonsky healed from Hulk kicking him into a tree

[roach]

dbl post brought to you by those fine people at Ovaltine. Mix up a batch today and your kids will love it.

[Nathan]

Was that even the same serum, or something similar created? I always thought the formular got lost and Cap was the only perfect Super Soldier they were able to produce?

[Blackman]

Yeah Nathan I thought Blonsky's was a failed replica...hence why the side effects (Abomination) were so big

[Nathan]

Which means Cap wouldn't necessarily have the healing factor that Blonsky had. It would've been a new effect that only the Super Soldier replica possessed.

[roach]

Was that even the same serum, or something similar created? I always thought the formular got lost and Cap was the only perfect Super Soldier they were able to produce?

The serum is contained in a container. I am looking at it now paused on Bluray.
Cryosync/Stark Industries
Program:Weapons Plus
Developer:Dr. Reinstein

underneath it has a radiation symbol that says Vita-ray.

Dr. Reinstein is the code name for Dr Erskine

[NoirMan82]

Really?! I have it downloaded on my computer. I need to see if I can get a screen cap.

[NoirMan82]

Success:


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/dre_mac/HULK_Capture-1.jpg

[Triad]

That's sweet!

[Webhead2006]

cool

[sabetoonth]

maybe blonsky got a prototype?

[roach]

or maybe the gov has the serum they just dont know the right dosage

[sabetoonth]

or maybe the gov has the serum they just dont know the right dosage
thats another one!

[Turtles]

Success:


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/dre_mac/HULK_Capture-1.jpg

Program: Weapons Plus. Wouldn't it be Poject: Rebirth if this were the same stuff Cap got? Weapons Plus must be what the new program to try and recreate the Super Soldier Serum/Super Soldiers is called.

Developer: Dr. Reinstein. He might have developed the formula, but that doesn't mean that the stuff in container was made by him. Maybe somebody took his formula (which is why he's listed as developer), and made it themselves? And maybe, the reason it doesn't work is because it lacks some key ingredient that only Dr. Reinstein/Erskine knew? That's how it was in the comics, wasn't it? Nobody but Erskine knew the secret ingredient?

Batch No.: 006-V2. Batch number 6, version 2? This leads me to believe that there are different batches, and different versions of each batch, all of which were probably created by scientists trying to find the exact formula that will allow them to duplicate or exceed what Dr. Reinstein's did to Captain America. Maybe Batch no. 006-V2 is the closest they came to succeeding, but it's still a failure?

or maybe the gov has the serum they just dont know the right dosage

I don't think it would be something as simple as dosage. If it were, you can bet the government would line soldier's up and just start injecting them with different doses until they got it right. The Super Soldier Serum was always kinda the holy grail of military tech in the comics, so the government wouldn't end a project to make more super soldiers if a little thing like the correct dosage was giving them problems.

On a side note, didn't Blonsky only become the Abomination because he later took some of that serum derived from Bruce's blood? So, I don't think Abomination could be 100% attributed to the failed serum.

[roach]

Program: Weapons Plus. Wouldn't it be Poject: Rebirth if this were the same stuff Cap got? Weapons Plus must be what the new program to try and recreate the Super Soldier Serum/Super Soldiers is called.
In Grant Morrison's New X-men its discovered that Captain America was a part of the Weapon Plus Program that created Wolverine and that all these years we thought he was called Weapon X when the "X" stood for the roman numeral 10. Cap was Weapon One

Developer: Dr. Reinstein. He might have developed the formula, but that doesn't mean that the stuff in container was made by him. Maybe somebody took his formula (which is why he's listed as developer), and made it themselves? And maybe, the reason it doesn't work is because it lacks some key ingredient that only Dr. Reinstein/Erskine knew? That's how it was in the comics, wasn't it? Nobody but Erskine knew the secret ingredient?

If I take something someone else developed and change it is it still that original product.Coke and Pepsi are pretty much the same formula with minor differences.
The hint is right there to what went wrong. Vita-rays. I dont think Blonsky was subjected to Vita-rays

Batch No.: 006-V2. Batch number 6, version 2? This leads me to believe that there are different batches, and different versions of each batch, all of which were probably created by scientists trying to find the exact formula that will allow them to duplicate or exceed what Dr. Reinstein's did to Captain America. Maybe Batch no. 006-V2 is the closest they came to succeeding, but it's still a failure?

Its a possibility

I don't think it would be something as simple as dosage. If it were, you can bet the government would line soldier's up and just start injecting them with different doses until they got it right. The Super Soldier Serum was always kinda the holy grail of military tech in the comics, so the government wouldn't end a project to make more super soldiers if a little thing like the correct dosage was giving them problems.

Well they had this suff sitting aound and they knew it would make Blonsky a super soldier...I dont remember if Ross said anything about the risks of the operation

On a side note, didn't Blonsky only become the Abomination because he later took some of that serum derived from Bruce's blood? So, I don't think Abomination could be 100% attributed to the failed serum.

The other thing is maybe there was something special about Steve that made him accept the serum better. He was sickly and frail and they gave the serum to a healthy man.

[NoirMan82]

More than anything, this is a bit of hint that the Stark family may have a role in the Super Soldier program. With Stark Industries providing the infrastructure, it may be safe to say Howard Stark worked on the program.

[roach]

well I think its a big hint since it has Stark Industries on the container

[Turtles]

Cap was part of the Weapon Plus Program? I already kinda knew the X stood for 10 and Logan was #10, but I never knew Cap was considered #1 because I haven't read many X-Men comics, less alone the ones you referred to. Makes sense, though. Still, it remains to be seen if they'll use that idea in the Marvel movies, or if Weapon's Plus will be a totally new thing, or something that's not even touched on and the name is just a little something for the fanboys to find and point out.

As for the Vita-Ray thing.....well, don't you think it's odd that they have Vita Ray written right on the side of the container, yet they never administered them to Blonsky (that we know of)? Is the military that stupid, or is the entire mixture already subjected to Vita-Rays (hence the reason it's written on the side of the container) and the person getting the serum doesn't need to subjected to them separately?

Questions, questions, questions.

well I think its a big hint since it has Stark Industries on the container

Maybe the containers were built by Stark Industries and nothing more? In TIH you can see General Ross ordering the Humvees with the satellite-dish looking things on them from Stark Industries, so maybe he just bought cryosync containers from Stark Industries too? The Stark family can't be involved in every project that has a piece of tech with it's name on it.

I Still think Howard Stark has something to do with Cap, though. I don't know if it'll be with the shield, or the super soldier program, or what have you, but it'll be with something.

Back on topic (just for the hell of it):

No pirate boots. :oldrazz:

[Triad]

No pirate boots. :oldrazz:

Lol!

[Brian Braddock]

Success:


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/dre_mac/HULK_Capture-1.jpg


I find the 'vita-ray' symbol inclusion there a bit strange considering it's the vita-ray technology that's all important for the stabilisation of the SSS, yet Cap lore says that that technology supposedly died with Erskine/Reinstein, hence the SSS being replicated unsuccessfully so many times in the comics [that being the point of why Cap is largely unique - theyve never been able to duplicate the success they had with the creation of Cap].

Many, including myself, have previously theorised that Blonky's SSS was the real deal but was just missing the essential Vita-Ray process, yet I never knew it was right there on the sign. So now I'm kind of :huh: because we were only shown Blonsky receiving small doses of SSS by injection - there was nothing to suggest vita ray application.

It could mean that 'Weapon Plus' have synthesised a copy of the SSS themsleves years later under the supervision of Ross, with the term 'developer' merely crediting Erskine/Reinstein as being the creator of the original serum.

[Brian Braddock]

As for the Vita-Ray thing.....well, don't you think it's odd that they have Vita Ray written right on the side of the container, yet they never administered them to Blonsky (that we know of)? Is the military that stupid, or is the entire mixture already subjected to Vita-Rays (hence the reason it's written on the side of the container) and the person getting the serum doesn't need to subjected to them separately?



Lolz - just read this after my post above.

Anyway, you make a good point. :hehe:

[NoirMan82]

I'm thinking the vita-ray sign is merely fan service and it has nothing to do with the compound that Blonsky got. As we saw, his procedure was much more painful and invasive that what Cap was administered, with clear psychological side effects.

[roach]

well we still havent seen movie Steve's process of getting the SSS

[Dangerous]

Besides, the 1990 movie showed me that the original costume just doesn't look quite right on film.

It didn't show anything of the kind.

What it showed is that is that a crappy laytex version of the classic costume complete with ill shaped eyes holes and stick on plastic ears doesn't look right on film.

[jab1118]

Success:


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/dre_mac/HULK_Capture-1.jpg

I feel like this is an example of something I spoke about on I believe the speculation thread. We may when all is said and done just have to overlook these things. This was a director and a crew coming up with things to try and mix these worlds together but the problem is Captain america is not there movie to make decisions for. Im sure marvel was there with the final say but the fact is what sounds cool at the time may not be waht works in Caps movie. You have a new Director who had nothing to do with these choices. Who may have a different vision. And most of them wont bother anybody but people like us because we were the only ones to notice. But we may have a Cap movie that says the vita ray part of the process was lost forever. And we may have an avengers that never addresses Caps shield on Tonys desk

[Webhead2006]

some good thoughts on the whole SSS stuff turtles.

[Wolvieboy17]

I feel like this is an example of something I spoke about on I believe the speculation thread. We may when all is said and done just have to overlook these things. This was a director and a crew coming up with things to try and mix these worlds together but the problem is Captain america is not there movie to make decisions for. Im sure marvel was there with the final say but the fact is what sounds cool at the time may not be waht works in Caps movie. You have a new Director who had nothing to do with these choices. Who may have a different vision. And most of them wont bother anybody but people like us because we were the only ones to notice. But we may have a Cap movie that says the vita ray part of the process was lost forever. And we may have an avengers that never addresses Caps shield on Tonys desk

Well not really, because its been confirmed a few times that all the different movie productions are in constant meetings to maintain continuity. I think there is even a seperate department working to make sure everything ties in together. I know Bendis has been working as a script consultant for alot of them, and I know Favreau has regularly been visiting the Thor set, so there is clearly collaberation between them all. Even letterier has remarked on ideas for the Cap film, so I think they know what they're doing :)

[MMMMM...Dounuts]

Ultimate WWII for the first movie.

Modern inspired military/blackops/Ultimates 2 look for the Avengers.

[roach]

Well not really, because its been confirmed a few times that all the different movie productions are in constant meetings to maintain continuity. I think there is even a seperate department working to make sure everything ties in together. I know Bendis has been working as a script consultant for alot of them, and I know Favreau has regularly been visiting the Thor set, so there is clearly collaberation between them all. Even letterier has remarked on ideas for the Cap film, so I think they know what they're doing :)

agreed especially with the news that the SHIELD agent from Iron Man and Iron Man 2 will be in Thor.

[Webhead2006]

yea i believe with the marvel studios films they do have to go through marvel guys and make sure certain things are straight in all movies. I believe i read most of the writers for marvel studios have had meetings with each other.

[roach]

the guy who directed IH had seen designs for Cap...

[Webhead2006]

did he many any comments on look?

[Rage]

I believe that Marvel Studios has been working on this film for a while without JJ. When LL (director of TIH) came out and mentioned the sketches and designs he had seen... JJ had not been announced and was working on the Wolfman. I believe that Marvel went out got their writers and designers started well in advance and got the basics down and they are now fine-tuning it with Johnson. I wouldn't doubt that Favreau/LL/KB and JJ have all had a hand in this movie at some point and will probably all have a bit of a hand with Avengers.

[Gamma Goliath]

im pretty sure that happened after jj had been announced.

[Webhead2006]

probably so