Will this be the biggest superhero movie ever?

[Mister Sinister]

Because I think it'll be pushed that way, especially with such a massive cast.

[FaT_tONle]

Depends on how far Marvel is willing to take it. Who will they cast for the other heroes... how large will the budget be... etc. I have no doubt this can be one of the highest grossing films ever.

[Lobo]

Honestly, i think it will be.

[Chewy]

Quite Possibly

It'll have to move away from HP8 first, though

[FaT_tONle]

Here we go with the release dates again... it was either HP8 or BB3... take your pick. Seems like WB wants that mid July release as much as anybody else... going back to 2007 on (guess they learned from the SR debacle). I honestly don't think it will impact... besides they can move to July 1st if need be.

[Spider-Vader]

If Thor & Captain America are good, I think it will. If the movie is also the best superhero movie, Titanic will get booted down to # 2 by the best superhero team in the world.

[Aztec]

If Thor & Captain America are good, I think it will.

I agree but it's still got to be a good movie in its own right. I really think the best approach would be to follow The Ultimates as much as possible.

[marcvader]

Definately has the potential to be. It all depends on how the solos do along with it having an epic feel. The right director is key.

[Spider-Vader]

I agree but it's still got to be a good movie in its own right. I really think the best approach would be to follow The Ultimates as much as possible.

My sentence after that meant that it was seen as "the best superhero movie" quality wise.

[Immortalfire]

I certainly hope so :up:

[Kable24]

Honestly, i think it will be.

I think it will be the biggest as well. I am really looking forward to this movie.



BTW: You don't know how many times I rewatched that scene on my DVR. best part of the episode.

[Wally West]

Obviously it has the potential, at this point though it's way too early to say. Locking down Sam Jackson was definately a step in the right direction.

We can't get ahead of ourselves, Ironman 2 should be good if they can secure the cast they want. Thor and Captain America could both be great, but we still have no clue who will playing the leading roles...

I think Captain America is the x-factor. It is set to be released only a few months prior to Avengers (right?). If they knock that out of the park, and build enough momentum, we could see a push at Titanic/TDK type of numbers...

I guess there is another x-factor as well, one with potentially more impact - no one knows where the economy is heading, things may be better a year from now, they may not, who knows how good or bad things will be by 2011. Then again, maybe that doesn't matter, wasn't Gone with the Wind released during the great depression? That film did alright for itself lol, so I guess we'll see.

[Carlo Comicus]

I hope.

[Carlo Comicus]

I hope.

[Aluchak]

No doubt on my mind that it will.
I mean they will get a bunch of A Listers to play Superheroes that have been around for decades and they will come out over a span of 4 years, so its going to be EXTREMELY hyped up.
I doubt they will screw up the first two and if they are even just "Okay" it will still be HUGE.

I mean, this is huge.

[KingOfMars]

cant believe an avengers movie is actually happening.

[Lobo]

I think it will be the biggest as well. I am really looking forward to this movie.



BTW: You don't know how many times I rewatched that scene on my DVR. best part of the episode.

:woot: :up:

[chesslover]

So this a remake of The Avengers that starred Ralph Fiennes and Uma Therman?

[Lobo]

Are you serious?

If you are, the answer is no http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avengers_(comics)

[Daredevil_2003]

If Marvel plays their cards right this can and should be the biggest superhero movie ever. As others have said it largely depends on how Cap and Thor go. If they're of IM quality or better, and then Marvel gets a really high quality script and writes the film makers a blank check, Avengers could be more than a fanboy's wet dream. It could be ****ing epic on a scale we've never seen before.

I'm in the camp that believes they should heavily base it off The Ultimates. That book was incredible and had a very cinematic style.

[batboy99]

Its a movie of one of the best team up ever. I say yes.

[Eggyman]

Biggest? Probably. Best? I doubt it.

[Ipodman]

Is it safe to say its the first and ONLY team-up on the big screen?...

.. for Marvel/DC at least...

[bryanss3]

I think it will be big for fans but Critics will probably rip it apart cause essentially it will be Iron Man, Cap, and Thor who all will be starring in their own movies. and then throwing them into one movie plus adding more characters will confuse people. and critics probably won't be very kind to this and it might be confusing for non comic fans who are fans of the Iron Man and Hulk movies, but that all depends on how the movies leading up to it flow. I'm excited for all of these movies by marvel studios. I think the movies are sort of being done in a strange order, but its obvious they have a plan. their order is IM2, Thor, Cap, Avengers, if I was doing it I'd do Cap, Thor, IM2, Avengers, but its obviously a better idea and on grounds to release a sequel before a whole new characters movie cause sequels for the most part are more profitable and familiar.

but to sum up what I was trying to say we'll probably get what we want, fans of the movies will prob get something from it also, but I don't expect critics to praise it.

[Shivsguy616]

Possibly. They'll have to make it quite epic though.

Watchmen was amazing, it'll be a tough film to follow.

[Lex Luthor]

Oh, I'm sure the hype would be outrageous ... so it better deliver.

[Wally West]

I think it will be big for fans but Critics will probably rip it apart cause essentially it will be Iron Man, Cap, and Thor who all will be starring in their own movies. and then throwing them into one movie plus adding more characters will confuse people. and critics probably won't be very kind to this and it might be confusing for non comic fans who are fans of the Iron Man and Hulk movies, but that all depends on how the movies leading up to it flow. I'm excited for all of these movies by marvel studios. I think the movies are sort of being done in a strange order, but its obvious they have a plan. their order is IM2, Thor, Cap, Avengers, if I was doing it I'd do Cap, Thor, IM2, Avengers, but its obviously a better idea and on grounds to release a sequel before a whole new characters movie cause sequels for the most part are more profitable and familiar.

but to sum up what I was trying to say we'll probably get what we want, fans of the movies will prob get something from it also, but I don't expect critics to praise it.

I'm not sure you're giving film critics enough credit. This is not a typical Hollywood film because it's a group of films leading to one specific event. Since I have no doubt that that fact will be well established, most critics will judge it as a sequel, taking into account what has happened in the previous films.

The biggest challenge this film will face critically is it's own hype, and whether or not it lives up to it.

[bryanss3]

I'm not sure you're giving film critics enough credit. This is not a typical Hollywood film because it's a group of films leading to one specific event. Since I have no doubt that that fact will be well established, most critics will judge it as a sequel, taking into account what has happened in the previous films.

The biggest challenge this film will face critically is it's own hype, and whether or not it lives up to it.

You're right and it all does depend on the 3 movies leading into it. and at this moment Iron Man 2 is the only one I've worried about, but it looks like its got back on track now.

[Spider-Vader]

I think it will be big for fans but Critics will probably rip it apart cause essentially it will be Iron Man, Cap, and Thor who all will be starring in their own movies. and then throwing them into one movie plus adding more characters will confuse people. and critics probably won't be very kind to this and it might be confusing for non comic fans who are fans of the Iron Man and Hulk movies, but that all depends on how the movies leading up to it flow. I'm excited for all of these movies by marvel studios. I think the movies are sort of being done in a strange order, but its obvious they have a plan. their order is IM2, Thor, Cap, Avengers, if I was doing it I'd do Cap, Thor, IM2, Avengers, but its obviously a better idea and on grounds to release a sequel before a whole new characters movie cause sequels for the most part are more profitable and familiar.

but to sum up what I was trying to say we'll probably get what we want, fans of the movies will prob get something from it also, but I don't expect critics to praise it.

I'm pretty sure the Pyms will be the only heroes introduced in the film. They're not a hard concept, scientists who specialize in size & use it to be super heroes.

[sdc10]

I really think it will all depend on how well Thor, and Captain America are received. No doubt this movie will depend on the excitement of seeing all the heroes together, but if people didnt really like Thor or Cap then all people will have to go on is seeing Iron Man in another movie.

[bryanss3]

I'm pretty sure the Pyms will be the only heroes introduced in the film. They're not a hard concept, scientists who specialize in size & use it to be super heroes.

I didn't mean introducing new characters being a problem I meant having a large cast can confuse people. do we know who's officially going to be on the team? Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Antman, Wasp thats 5 if you include Fury its 6. but then if they could also include Hawkeye, Black Widow, and War Machine making it 9. plus the Hulk making it 10 super hero characters plus the rest of the cast of the movie. We could have any where from 5 to 10 super heroes in this movie plus villains. I'm not saying a big cast is a bad thing at all. I just meant it could confuse people.

and yes if you're wondering I just learned math today so I wanted to show it off.

[Daredevil_2003]

lol congrats on your achievable.

I don't see how it could be confusing, if the rumors I've heard about IM2 are true, every one of those characters but the Pyms will have been introduced and given at least some face time if not their own solo movies (Cap, Hulk, and Thor). So I dont get how it could be confusing. As for villains I'm inclined to believe they'll go the route of Ultimates and focus on the formation of the team and how they get along to start, with the main villains being some faceless threat like the Chitauri or Skrull that doesn't need a terrible amount of building up or what have you. At least, that would be the smart way to do it.

[FaT_tONle]

Skrull won't work... I could see a Loki final act... maybe throw in Namor (although I doubt they will use him)... kinda lackluster though. Ant-Man was supposed to get his own film... I don't care if it had flop written all over it... they could have just done an action comedy on a small budget. Make it a different kind of superhero film. And assuming Loki isn't the villain... or its a new villain entirely not previously introduced... then that WILL take a lot of buildup as well.

[Daredevil_2003]

Well besides the fact that the Chitauri (I dont even know if I'm spelling that right :hehe:) option is still on the table regardless, why aren't the Skrull feasible? I'm not terribly schooled on them so to the best of my knowledge they're practically the same thing in that they're both malevolent invaders from the cosmos.

Excuse me if that's a false assumption. Like I said, not a Skrull afficionado.

[Angamb]

I'm agreed with the mayority's opinion, if Thor and Captain America are good movies and have a good boxoffice, The Avengers will make a big impact worldwide.

I find it really exciting, this new franchise is being developed since 2008 to 2012, with the solo movies... the hype will be bigger with each solo film...

I'd love to see it already!! I think it would have been nice to have a solo film this year, the Thor one.... but anyway.

2012 will be big. :wow:

[Spider-Vader]

I didn't mean introducing new characters being a problem I meant having a large cast can confuse people. do we know who's officially going to be on the team? Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Antman, Wasp thats 5 if you include Fury its 6. but then if they could also include Hawkeye, Black Widow, and War Machine making it 9. plus the Hulk making it 10 super hero characters plus the rest of the cast of the movie. We could have any where from 5 to 10 super heroes in this movie plus villains. I'm not saying a big cast is a bad thing at all. I just meant it could confuse people.

and yes if you're wondering I just learned math today so I wanted to show it off.
The only other character I'd want on the team is Hawkeye. I'm hoping Black Widow & War Machine are cameos.

[mclay18]

I honestly have no clue if The Avengers will be the biggest superhero movie, and even if they pull it off correctly there's no telling if it'll give The Dark Knight a run for its money.

But it'll be the biggest superhero movie that'll be the most tricky to pull together in a way that satisfies a lot of people. A good director, decent script, cast members that can stand up to RDJ and DC in terms of performance, etc..

[Dev]

IMO the most difficult superhero team movie to do will be a JL movie. The Avengers seems to be alot simpler to pull of than JL.

[Wiseman]

It'll probably be the most expensive superhero movie ever but box office grosses like TDK had aren't exactly something that just happens. No matter how good this movie is it's also got to have that "everyone has to see it right now or you're not apart of humanity" hype about it that TDK was able to obtain through Ledger's death as well as viral marketing and an avalanche of industry insiders claiming it was the second coming. So I'd say it has about a 5 percent chance of ever reaching that.

[YoungE808]

Well what JL is doing seems to be the opposite of Marvel's approach since Marvel is doing the individual movies first (well some) while JL...the individual movies will come afterwards depending on the outcome.

[Chewy]

JL as in Justice League? As in the movie that isn't happening?

[YoungE808]

Yep...but if it would have continued productin or whatever phase they were in.

[chronoic]

it depends on the story itself, if the story suck the movie will fail, you want to give each hero his time in the spot light with out taking from another (cought cought X-men) the reason watchman was good i think is because it gave each hero their spot without taking from another.

plus the expectation of this film will be big because of these 4 heroes, even more if cap and thor did good in box office.

[Hmarrs]

Because I think it'll be pushed that way, especially with such a massive cast.
It should be the biggest movie but it probably won't be.
Dc has a tendency to still closer to the comics so I think The Justice League movie will blow it out of the water.If Marvel gives you the Avengers since they really don't stick too close the material it really won't be the Avengers.

[Bruce_Begins]

I think that this movie will be the biggest movie of 2012, it will be more successful than Amazing Spider-man and TDKR.

So, anything that comes after Avengers from Marvel Studios will feel less spectacular.

[cherokeesam]

Any particular reason you necroposted in a thread that's been buried for almost three years.....? :dry:

[Green Day]

No
None of Marvel Cinematic films have done well enough for this to cross 533m. If Iron Man 2 was well received and gross over 400m and if this was best Marvel film then it would have a shot.
Since Iron Man 2 gross under Iron Man and no other Marvel film has hit 200m. It will not make more 533m.

[BigThor]

No
None of Marvel Cinematic films have done well enough for this to cross 533m. If Iron Man 2 was well received and gross over 400m and if this was best Marvel film then it would have a shot.
Since Iron Man 2 gross under Iron Man and no other Marvel film has hit 200m. It will not make more 533m.

You can't just simply compare the potential gross for this film to Iron Man's gross, because this isn't Iron Man this is The Avengers which is the culmination of 4 fairly successful films and one moderately successful one.

The trailer for this film is the most downloaded trailer of all time, so I wouldn't count it out just yet.

[Quasimod0]

And regardless of the money it rakes in, this is the biggest superhero movie yet. I feel fairly confident in saying that. This isnt just about one hero.

[BigThor]

And regardless of the money it rakes in, this is the biggest superhero movie yet. I feel fairly confident in saying that. This isnt just about one hero.

Yeah the scale will definately be the largest in any superhero film yet simply because this isn't a regular superhero film this is an "event film".

[Sharkboy]

And regardless of the money it rakes in, this is the biggest superhero movie yet. I feel fairly confident in saying that. This isnt just about one hero.

I think that's a very common and simplistic way of seeing things. It has more heroes therefore it must by logic be the biggest superhero movie ever.

My main problem with this entire thing, is that i was under the impression that any avengers film or Justice league film would be the combination and culmination of different FRANCHISES not different movies. Years ago if you had told me that they were getting raimis spider man, ang lees hulk, singers x-men, and afflecks daredevil together for one big movie, i woulda freaked, because they were all filmed as seperate franchises.

The problem with the marvel studios films is just that, since iron man and incredible hulk, they've all been filmed to connect. It became to the point where it just felt like they were making prequel movies to this film. I liked thor and captain america, but they felt like such lead ons for the avengers.

This film to me feels like the biggest marvel studios film ever made...but it could have been so much more, if each film was made to feel more independant of each other, maybe have them all spawn sequels instead of just iron man. Then this film would have felt like something big, like a big all star, ensemble event.

These films don't have the pedrigree and critical darling nature that raimi's first two spider films and nolan's first two batman films did. Spidey 3 was an event, massive only to hit a brick wall because of the terrible reviews. TDKR is following two very well recieved films, one of which is one of the most popular films of all time.

So no i don't think this is close to being one of the biggest superhero films ever...it could have been though, but who cares, you've got an exciting talented director and a great cast, let's hope it will be the best.

[Raiden]

The reason why every Marvel movies after IM & TIH are connected is because Marvel wanted to create a Marvel Cinematic Universe, where all the superheroes are connected and live in each other's worlds. And they also use this opportunity to introduce some elements that will get more screentime in The Avengers, such as Hawkeye (Thor), Black Widow (IM2), Cosmic Cube (Thor), and Fury. I think this is better than developing each film as if they were independent from each other, and suddenly they're all dropped into the same universe and the audience is supposed to accept this radical change right away. And Marvel's way also gives us glimpses of The Avengers with each new film, and make good use of the MCU that they're trying to create with all the movies under their banner.

[Quasimod0]

The reason why every Marvel movies after IM & TIH are connected is because Marvel wanted to create a Marvel Cinematic Universe, where all the superheroes are connected and live in each other's worlds. And they also use this opportunity to introduce some elements that will get more screentime in The Avengers, such as Hawkeye (Thor), Black Widow (IM2), Cosmic Cube (Thor), and Fury. I think this is better than developing each film as if they were independent from each other, and suddenly they're all dropped into the same universe and the audience is supposed to accept this radical change right away. And Marvel's way also gives us glimpses of The Avengers with each new film, and make good use of the MCU that they're trying to create with all the movies under their banner.
Thankyou. The way they're doing it is very smart and for sure makes it feel like the comic book universe on the big screen. I'm still standing by my belief that this is the biggest superhero movie yet.

[R_Hythlodeus]

This will not be the biggest superhero movie ever. It will be the second biggest superhero movie ever.
The biggest superhero movie ever will be (and I know this from a very reliable source) Avengers 2: The Sequel.
Sadly the third part won't be as good, but the 4th will be close to the first.

[Quasimod0]

You're from the future!! ;)

[Spider-ManHero12]

The reason why every Marvel movies after IM & TIH are connected is because Marvel wanted to create a Marvel Cinematic Universe, where all the superheroes are connected and live in each other's worlds. And they also use this opportunity to introduce some elements that will get more screentime in The Avengers, such as Hawkeye (Thor), Black Widow (IM2), Cosmic Cube (Thor), and Fury. I think this is better than developing each film as if they were independent from each other, and suddenly they're all dropped into the same universe and the audience is supposed to accept this radical change right away. And Marvel's way also gives us glimpses of The Avengers with each new film, and make good use of the MCU that they're trying to create with all the movies under their banner. Exactly!

[R_Hythlodeus]

From the year 2022. I'm here to tell you: The Mayans were a bunch of dopeheads.

[Son of Coul]

Saying this movie won't make much based on the gross of one individual movie in its continuity is as logical as adding up all the grosses and saying it will make at least that much.

[Spider-Vader]

No
None of Marvel Cinematic films have done well enough for this to cross 533m. If Iron Man 2 was well received and gross over 400m and if this was best Marvel film then it would have a shot.
Since Iron Man 2 gross under Iron Man and no other Marvel film has hit 200m. It will not make more 533m.

By this logic TDK shouldn't have grossed over 500 million domestically & over a billion WW.

[Sharkboy]

I'm sure this film will make tons and tons of money, i'm just not convinced at all it will be THE top money maker next year.

Unless you meant biggest superhero film in other terms. Scale maybe? If that is the case you could be right.

[kedrell]

Domestically, I'm not sure it'll be the biggest superhero film in terms of gross(it's got a solid shot and I'd love for it to happen but I can't even say it's likely, let alone a certainty). World-wide I'd say it's got better odds of being the biggest grossing superhero film unadjusted. Still not anything like a lock, though.

Being Marvel's highest grossing movie WW? That's a much more likely scenario at least.

The only thing I'd say it's an almost absolute lock for is being Marvel Studios highest grossing movie WW.

[Juicy J]

Thankyou. The way they're doing it is very smart and for sure makes it feel like the comic book universe on the big screen. I'm still standing by my belief that this is the biggest superhero movie yet.

Agreed.
I hate when people complain about Marvel cross-pollinating their movies, saying they do it 'to much'.
It'd be one thing if they had gone way overboard with it, but they haven't (other than in IM2, I could see how some people could complain about that one).
They're giving us an on screen version of the Marvel universe from the comics. How ****ing cool is that?!?!
That being said: I think in scope this is easily the biggest superhero movie. Arguably one of the biggest movies ever, period. This is not just a movie, but an event, that has been building in hype and anticipation for 4 years.

No
None of Marvel Cinematic films have done well enough for this to cross 533m. If Iron Man 2 was well received and gross over 400m and if this was best Marvel film then it would have a shot.
Since Iron Man 2 gross under Iron Man and no other Marvel film has hit 200m. It will not make more 533m.
Some of those facts aren't true bud.
IM2 did more than the first one, and every Marvel film has hit 200m, including the weakest film.

[Green Day]

By this logic TDK shouldn't have grossed over 500 million domestically & over a billion WW.
BB was hurt by Batman and Robins and poor marketing. BB did great on DVD and rentals. TDK had great marketing, then health ledger died. Heath Ledger have one best villain performance of all time and TDK had some best reviews of any live action blockbuster in a long time. So The Dark Knigth brought lot new audience. Plus Batman is a well known superhero look at Batman 89.
The Avengers has been building up and most franchise loose audience of time and plus if someone has not seen any of the Marvel Cinematic films, they will not see this since they won't understand what the point is and they will not know who any of the heroes are.
I think the Avengers will do well around 360-400m but it will not cross 500m.
and Juicy I was referring to the domestic box office not worldwide box office.
worldwide it should do above 800m but less than a billion.

[Juicy J]

^ Ah, understood :up:
Yeah I'd be more than content with 800 million worldwide. That's fantastic numbers. Would I want a billion? No doubt. But Spider-man 3 numbers is also completely acceptable haha.

[BigThor]

I still think it's gonna reach a billion, idk what anyone says.

[Juicy J]

I still think it's gonna reach a billion, idk what anyone says.

If it does, the MCU films would take the number 5 position on the list of highest grossing film franchises, right above Shrek and right before pirates of the Caribbean.

[Quasimod0]

I love being able to say that these movies are a franchise. Because even though theyre all separated, theyre still connected and leading up to something

[Spider-Vader]

BB was hurt by Batman and Robins and poor marketing. BB did great on DVD and rentals. TDK had great marketing, then health ledger died. Heath Ledger have one best villain performance of all time and TDK had some best reviews of any live action blockbuster in a long time. So The Dark Knigth brought lot new audience. Plus Batman is a well known superhero look at Batman 89.
The Avengers has been building up and most franchise loose audience of time and plus if someone has not seen any of the Marvel Cinematic films, they will not see this since they won't understand what the point is and they will not know who any of the heroes are.
I think the Avengers will do well around 360-400m but it will not cross 500m.
and Juicy I was referring to the domestic box office not worldwide box office.
worldwide it should do above 800m but less than a billion.


Well, both Cap & Thor have been pretty big successes on the DVD market. Along with the huge popularity of the Iron Man series.

[BigThor]

Well, both Cap & Thor have been pretty big successes on the DVD market. Along with the huge popularity of the Iron Man series.

Yeah, just because they didn't make as much as Iron Man overall doesn't mean they weren't successes (I'm so sick of hearing that).

[HULKFish]

I totally expect it to be. Something is very wrong if it isn't... Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and the Incredible HULK all showed the world HOW a superhero movie should be made!

I'm a big Batman fan, but I think The Avengers are the pinnacle of Superherodom!

AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!!!

[Mysteryman]

It will be the biggest Avengers film to be released in the 21st century so far.

[Quasimod0]

Thats pretty specific. :p

[Juicy J]

I love being able to say that these movies are a franchise. Because even though theyre all separated, theyre still connected and leading up to something
Absolutely agreed.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_leut3zxRZZ1qf8yek.gif

[Tony Stark]

Fandango had a poll saying this was the 2nd highest anticipated movie of 2012, only behind the Hobbit. I don't know if it will be biggest ever, but biggest of 2012 is not out of the question.

[Juicy J]

Fandango had a poll saying this was the 2nd highest anticipated movie of 2012, only behind the Hobbit. I don't know if it will be biggest ever, but biggest of 2012 is not out of the question.

Before TDKR? Where did that place on the list?

[Tony Stark]

Before TDKR? Where did that place on the list?

TDKR was 3rd overall, but didn't place on the list among women, only for men. Avengers was 5th among women (first was Twilight BD pt. 2).


http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/survey-says-the-hobbit-the-avengers-are-2-of-2012s-most-anticipated-movies-what-are-yours-survey

I don't think it's that surprising, only because Bane is not a big draw like Joker was and Heath Ledger and the tragic circumstances surrounding TDK.

[ripse]

My Opinion yes for team superheroes, but for solo still spider-man movie is big2 superhero...can't doubt it

[Spider-Vader]

I can't wait until Twilight goes away. But unlike Rowling & Potter, I wouldn't be surprised if Twilight's hack writer made more crappy novels to keep the cash cow rolling.

[Quasimod0]

I really hope spider-man does well. I wonder if people arent anticipating it as much because theyve already had a whole trilogy of pretty good spider-man films?

[Marvel]

I really hope spider-man does well. I wonder if people arent anticipating it as much because theyve already had a whole trilogy of pretty good spider-man films?

The fan base is more than split with general audiences HATING the idea of a reboot this soon. This movie is a curiosity but there is no passion for it. It's going to get destroyed and overlooked next year in a summer with Avengers and TDKR.

Avengers tracking higher does not surprise me at all. It's going to rule 2012.

[Juicy J]

It's a little early in the game to say it's going to be 'destroyed'.
Yeah it's got the least going for it in terms of hype and general approval, but I don't think it's smart to write it off completely.

[hatebox]

I don't think Avengers stands a chance at beating TDKR in the domestic market.

WW will be more interesting. Batman has always had mixed fortunes overseas, and TDKR isn't in 3D.

[cherokeesam]

I don't think Avengers stands a chance at beating TDKR in the domestic market.

WW will be more interesting. Batman has always had mixed fortunes overseas, and TDKR isn't in 3D.


I dunno. Both Avengers and TDKR are creating so much fanboy hype that it's going to be hard for either to live up to. If either film winds up having villains and stories that just don't seem to click with general audiences, *both* of them could wind up with just massive openings followed by massive second-week dropoffs, and could easily finish a distant third for the year behind a surprise hit.

Personally, I don't think there's any way in hell TDKR is going to fill Joker's big-ass shoes from TDK; and on the Avengers front, I'm still trying to figure out what math Marvel and the Marvelphiles are coming up with to justify the notion that audiences who never went to see any of the four "prequels" will suddenly generate an interest in those characters they didn't care about before in an *ensemble* role.

"Hey, do you care about Captain America?" :woot:
"Nope." :dry:
"How about Thor?" :yay:
"Nope." :dry:
"Hulk?" :huh:
"Nope." :dry:
"Not even Iron Man?" :csad:
"Nuh-uh." :dry:
"Well.....what if I toldja about a movie that had ALL FOUR of them in it together.....?" :woot:
"....WTF" :doh:

[JB-the-Hunter]

I dunno. Both Avengers and TDKR are creating so much fanboy hype that it's going to be hard for either to live up to. If either film winds up having villains and stories that just don't seem to click with general audiences, *both* of them could wind up with just massive openings followed by massive second-week dropoffs, and could easily finish a distant third for the year behind a surprise hit.

Personally, I don't think there's any way in hell TDKR is going to fill Joker's big-ass shoes from TDK; and on the Avengers front, I'm still trying to figure out what math Marvel and the Marvelphiles are coming up with to justify the notion that audiences who never went to see any of the four "prequels" will suddenly generate an interest in those characters they didn't care about before in an *ensemble* role.

"Hey, do you care about Captain America?" :woot:
"Nope." :dry:
"How about Thor?" :yay:
"Nope." :dry:
"Hulk?" :huh:
"Nope." :dry:
"Not even Iron Man?" :csad:
"Nuh-uh." :dry:
"Well.....what if I toldja about a movie that had ALL FOUR of them in it together.....?" :woot:
"....WTF" :doh:
You’re assuming people who didn’t see the movies in theaters were not interested in seeing them. I never saw the first Iron Man in theaters, but after I saw it on TV I loved it, so I went to see Iron Man 2 in theaters. My sisters never saw Captain America in theaters, but they saw it on dvd and loved it. My friends didn’t see Thor in theaters, but saw it at a screening in my college and loved it. And now we’re ALL going to see The Avengers in theaters together… probably multiple times. There’s your “math.”

[Mr. Fixit]

Biggest ever? Naaaaah.

DKR will top it.

[Son of Coul]

You’re assuming people who didn’t see the movies in theaters were not interested in seeing them. I never saw the first Iron Man in theaters, but after I saw it on TV I loved it, so I went to see Iron Man 2 in theaters. My sisters never saw Captain America in theaters, but they saw it on dvd and loved it. My friends didn’t see Thor in theaters, but saw it at a screening in my college and loved it. And now we’re ALL going to see The Avengers in theaters together… probably multiple times. There’s your “math.”

Hah, I like this.

[kedrell]

I dunno. Both Avengers and TDKR are creating so much fanboy hype that it's going to be hard for either to live up to. If either film winds up having villains and stories that just don't seem to click with general audiences, *both* of them could wind up with just massive openings followed by massive second-week dropoffs, and could easily finish a distant third for the year behind a surprise hit.

Personally, I don't think there's any way in hell TDKR is going to fill Joker's big-ass shoes from TDK; and on the Avengers front, I'm still trying to figure out what math Marvel and the Marvelphiles are coming up with to justify the notion that audiences who never went to see any of the four "prequels" will suddenly generate an interest in those characters they didn't care about before in an *ensemble* role.

"Hey, do you care about Captain America?" :woot:
"Nope." :dry:
"How about Thor?" :yay:
"Nope." :dry:
"Hulk?" :huh:
"Nope." :dry:
"Not even Iron Man?" :csad:
"Nuh-uh." :dry:
"Well.....what if I toldja about a movie that had ALL FOUR of them in it together.....?" :woot:
"....WTF" :doh:


It's not like there's a 100% overlap of all these films, regarding who among the GA saw it. There are plenty who liked one or the other and probably skipped some as well. There are people who had no interest in Iron Man but who really enjoyed Captain America's movie, or vice versa. Or didn't have any interest in Thor but were fans of TIH. So it'slikely that The Avengers will pull in people that any single individual film franchise in the MCU wouldn't. That's why I would be stunned if TA didn't easily outgross ever other MCU film to date.

[cherokeesam]

You’re assuming people who didn’t see the movies in theaters were not interested in seeing them. I never saw the first Iron Man in theaters, but after I saw it on TV I loved it, so I went to see Iron Man 2 in theaters. My sisters never saw Captain America in theaters, but they saw it on dvd and loved it. My friends didn’t see Thor in theaters, but saw it at a screening in my college and loved it. And now we’re ALL going to see The Avengers in theaters together… probably multiple times. There’s your “math.”


Did I specify "in theaters?" I think not.
Regardless of whether we're talking regular theater, IMAX, blu-ray, DVD, Netflix, whatever....I'm saying that people who weren't interested in these characters before will certainly have no reason to suddenly like them just because they're in a group this time. *That's* where Marvel is going to have the toughest sell.

[Marvin]

All marvel films should flirt with the 700-800 mill range. They have that potential, it's just a matter of execution.

Hopefully Joss taps into that potential. One has to respect their more lighthearted(relatively) approach. It's present already in the marketing.
Dark Knight Rises trailer music: Hans Zimmer Drums.
Spiderman Trailer music: some meditative orchestra stuff.
Avengers trailer music: Nine inch Nails.

should be interesting.

[JB-the-Hunter]

Did I specify "in theaters?" I think not.
Regardless of whether we're talking regular theater, IMAX, blu-ray, DVD, Netflix, whatever....I'm saying that people who weren't interested in these characters before will certainly have no reason to suddenly like them just because they're in a group this time. *That's* where Marvel is going to have the toughest sell.
The same applies to any movie. Especially TDKR, not that I have anything against it.

People who didn't see Raimi's movies MIGHT be interested in seeing TASM since they have nothing to do with each other. People who didn't see any Marvel Studios movies MIGHT be interested in seeing The Avengers because it brings something never attempted before to the big screen. TDKR however is merely the third Nolan Batman movie. Regardless of how good it may end up, it has no reason to draw a new audience.

[DACrowe]

I love being able to say that these movies are a franchise. Because even though theyre all separated, theyre still connected and leading up to something

That's my problem with them. They're not separate, they're all connected and count as one singular franchise. Thor, Captain America and Iron Man 2 don't feel like three separate films in three separate franchises....they feel like incomplete puzzle pieces in the same franchise that we get dolled out a piece of once or twice a year. They just kind of feel like fast food, instead of individually crafted meals.

I hope this is worth it, if for nothing else than I love Joss Whedon's work and hope this is a big creative and financial success for him, but I'm not blown away by what I've seen of this movie. It looks like Iron Man 3 in the trailers where he's getting a lot of help.

***

Anyway, I think BO wise it will be MCU's biggest hit....but not as mind blowing as its fans may believe. It's biggest hero is Iron Man and while it should do a little better than an IM movie because it has the "team-up event" allure, it still will be in the same ballpark. Hence, I see it doing over $300 million domestically and $700 million WW (a big jump from IM, but no guts, no glory).

With that said it won't be the biggest superhero movie of all time or even of the year. TDKR is going to cross $400 million US, $900 million WW--if not a billion. Also watch out for Dark Shadows being another Depp-Burton runaway hit in the same month as this film.

[jmc]

Biggest ever? No. Biggest of the year? No. Biggest Marvel film? More likely, using Iron Man as the appeal template plus the added inflation for 3D and novelty factor.

[GregComicFan]

I think the problem facing the Avengers being the "biggest superhero movie ever", in terms of being a cash cow, is that...

No single hero in the Avengers is considered "the coolest superhero ever". Sure, you will find people here and there who think Iron Man, or maybe Thor, are their personal favorites... but general consensus of the comic book fandom probably wouldn't generate many opinions of any single Avengers hero being considered "one of the greatest ever".

Hell, I think movie-version Iron Man's popularity is mostly due in part to Robert Downy Jr... so in that respect, the actor portraying the hero is creating most of the buzz for that hero. You don't see that with Batman, Superman, or Spiderman... the hero, the character, is who people want to see... and they just hope the actor portraying them is top-notch and pulls it off.

I don't think people were clamoring for an Iron Man movie, but Robert Downy Jr nailed it and made the character relevant.

I think TDKR will top The Avengers, and that's not because I prefer Batman over the Avengers... it's simply because I think the Avengers will be good, entertaining, escapist, adventurous fun... but TDKR is going to be "weighty, memorable" and probably a darn good movie OUTSIDE of being a superhero film. Of course, that's if Nolan pulls it off. I think even general audiences like "dark, gritty" over "bright and sparkly"... Avengers looks bright and sparkly... TDKR (ESPECIALLY after the new trailer with Sherlock Holmes 2)... looks as doom-and-gloom as you can imagine...

I also wonder if the general audience won't show up as expected for the Avengers because people may have not followed its build-up like comicbook fans have. I know plenty of people who saw Iron Man, but not Captain America or Thor... I know people who saw Captain America and Iron Man, but never saw Thor or Iron Man 2... I know someone who never saw the Incredible Hulk... come to think of it, the only person I know who saw Iron Man, Iron Man 2, the Incredible Hulk, Captain America, and Thor... is... me... :cwink:

[Quasimod0]

Thats not quite true. The hulk is huge. Many people would say he's their favorite superhero. Same with cap. Hulk is up there almost with superman batman and spiderman.

And i hate to be negative, but if the main hero of the film was only in the trailer of his film for maybe a second, i'd be very upset

[cherokeesam]

I hate to be pessimistic about this, but just looking at the day-to-day numbers on how many of us fanboys are viewing the Avengers subforum as opposed to TDKR, ASM, and MOS is depressing. If we forum fanboys can't even muster enough numbers to beat those subforums, how the hell can we reasonably expect the GA to elevate this film above those next year? (I included MOS because it's still iffy as to whether they're still shooting for a 2013 release or a holiday 2012, as has been rumored in recent days)

[Adamantium Man]

This is just one forum. I think it's dangerous to make statistical extrapolations to the GA based on the users here (or on any other comic geek forum users).

Judging from Fangirl Central (aka tumblr), Avengers has lots and lots of appeal for teen and twen girls, who don't tend to post in forums such as this one. They like hunky men, and they like bromance, which are two factors that that other movie doesn't have (at least not in those amounts). In short, they like character interaction more than they like big explosions. I should know; I'm a woman (if not a teen or a twen anymore, alas). Joss Whedon will give us character interaction in spades. And as Twilight shows, one should never discount the fangirls.

Look at DVD sales for the individual heroes' movies. Look at the download record on iTunes for the trailer. Don't just look at the users here.

We'll be able to see the impact the GA has on either film when the TDKR trailer is put up on iTunes (if it does get put up there). The download figures there will give the closest approximation to a direct comparison we're likely to get.

[Weadazoid]

I hate to be pessimistic about this, but just looking at the day-to-day numbers on how many of us fanboys are viewing the Avengers subforum as opposed to TDKR, ASM, and MOS is depressing. If we forum fanboys can't even muster enough numbers to beat those subforums, how the hell can we reasonably expect the GA to elevate this film above those next year? (I included MOS because it's still iffy as to whether they're still shooting for a 2013 release or a holiday 2012, as has been rumored in recent days)




Just a thought the GL boards were well lit up a month before it came out, and did indeed have bigger overall numbers then Cap or Thor.....


didn't quite equate to numbers




I have a feeling even if the GA, is tired of this genre, the idea of all these characters coming togeather will peak thier interest greatly

[munchie64]

Thought I'd migrate over here for awhile after spending a couple of days in TDKR forum, see whats up with this. :awesome:

We'll be able to see the impact the GA has on either film when the TDKR trailer is put up on iTunes (if it does get put up there). The download figures there will give the closest approximation to a direct comparison we're likely to get.
Agreed. Trailer views and responses are all we have right now, and all we'll have until all films are released.

[CaptainStacy]

Look at DVD sales for the individual heroes' movies. Look at the download record on iTunes for the trailer. Don't just look at the users here.
.

Is there a link to the dvd sales? Im just curious about the various numbers...

[Hawkingbird]

I can't wait until Twilight goes away. But unlike Rowling & Potter, I wouldn't be surprised if Twilight's hack writer made more crappy novels to keep the cash cow rolling.
Amen! It doesn't take much talent to come up with another one, just take a cliche 13 year teenager and mix it with some crappy vampire and vala!

[xeno000]

Is there a link to the dvd sales? Im just curious about the various numbers...

When Captain America: The First Avenger was releases, its first week combined DVD/Blu-Ray sales amounted to well over $52 million, which was greater than the total sales for Thor over 7 entire weeks. (Thor had total sales of around $47 million.) Cap sold like gangbusters, which seemed to be a bit of a shock within the industry.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8515/17115395.png

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/9331/89232131.png

[jacobed]

Not only will this not be the biggest superhero movie ever, it won't even be the biggest one of next year. Though its still going to be fantastic

[JB-the-Hunter]

Not only will this not be the biggest superhero movie ever, it won't even be the biggest one of next year. Though its still going to be fantastic
Depends on your definition of biggest.

Box office wise? Possibly. Popularity wise? Impossible for it not to be IMO.

[DACrowe]

Thats not quite true. The hulk is huge. Many people would say he's their favorite superhero. Same with cap. Hulk is up there almost with superman batman and spiderman.

Maybe in the '80s. Maybe for some people. But if Hulk was as popular as Spider-Man and Batman he'd cross at least $300 million domestic....not struggling and failing to reach $150 million domestic. And that's what hulk's done. Twice.

And i hate to be negative, but if the main hero of the film was only in the trailer of his film for maybe a second, i'd be very upset

What movie are you referring to? Just curious.

[kedrell]

Maybe in the '80s. Maybe for some people. But if Hulk was as popular as Spider-Man and Batman he'd cross at least $300 million domestic....not struggling and failing to reach $150 million domestic. And that's what hulk's done. Twice.

I chalk that up to Hulk being most unfortunate to have his debut movie end up as one of the worst movies this genre has ever produced(and IMO, THE worst in this genre...by a measure of light-years).

Then having a requelboot that while a fine adaption of the old TV show, just like that TV show it missed core elements of the character and his mythos which were what initially made him popular to begin with.

[Tony Stark]

Not only will this not be the biggest superhero movie ever, it won't even be the biggest one of next year. Though its still going to be fantastic

If the movie is as boring and unispiring as the trailer was, I wouldn't bank on TDKR being the biggest next year. I'm sure it will have a big opening, but it's not going to come close to TDK's numbers.

[DACrowe]

Did you just diss the TDKR trailer? Really? The trailer promises an epic with things we've never seen in a superhero film (civil unrest, class warfare, conflict in the streets, an actual ending to a superhero's story) that kind of reflects on the zeitgeist of the moment.

What makes it look boring and uninspired? I want to see TA, but its trailer is just of a generic world domination ramble from a villain we've already seen and then an IM trailer-styled use of music and montage. Pretty generic, in all honesty.

[CaptainStacy]

When Captain America: The First Avenger was releases, its first week combined DVD/Blu-Ray sales amounted to well over $52 million, which was greater than the total sales for Thor over 7 entire weeks. (Thor had total sales of around $47 million.) Cap sold like gangbusters, which seemed to be a bit of a shock within the industry.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8515/17115395.png

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/9331/89232131.png

Thanks! Wow, that IS impressive. Definitely good word of mouth in action here, i think. :cap:

[xeno000]

This is just one forum. I think it's dangerous to make statistical extrapolations to the GA based on the users here (or on any other comic geek forum users).

Judging from Fangirl Central (aka tumblr), Avengers has lots and lots of appeal for teen and twen girls, who don't tend to post in forums such as this one. They like hunky men, and they like bromance, which are two factors that that other movie doesn't have (at least not in those amounts). In short, they like character interaction more than they like big explosions. I should know; I'm a woman (if not a teen or a twen anymore, alas). Joss Whedon will give us character interaction in spades. And as Twilight shows, one should never discount the fangirls.

Look at DVD sales for the individual heroes' movies. Look at the download record on iTunes for the trailer. Don't just look at the users here.

We'll be able to see the impact the GA has on either film when the TDKR trailer is put up on iTunes (if it does get put up there). The download figures there will give the closest approximation to a direct comparison we're likely to get.

Everything you've said is very true. Online fans (of any movie/artist/show) often make the mistake of thinking that they and their particular group are the only fans in existence. I have participated in several online fandoms and this is a phenomenon I've seen very often. There is a sort of internet-based solipsism that blinds people to the possibility that there are millions of other people who are just as interested in their favorite show/movie/singer as online fans are. Were there not millions of other fans in the much-derided "General Audience", most movies would flop because there simply are not enough fans on any of these forums to buy the tens of millions of tickets needed to make them hits.


There was a good deal of shock in these parts when Marvel and Apple announced that The Avengers' trailer had been downloaded over 10 million times in just 24 hours. The surprise came from the fact that forums for the movies on this site and others have been less popular than those for some other movies. It should be clear from the number of downloads alone that there is a tremendous amount of interest in the movie from the public at large.


As for Tumblr, interest in The Avengers among fans there is overwhelming. There are hundreds if not thousands of tumble-blogs devoted to the movie and its characters. Whenever an Avengers-related story hits the Internet, it spreads like wildfire across Tumblr within minutes. The site almost went down from a spike in usage when the trailer was released. Avengers-centric blogs are always extremely active. If Tumblr was all I had to judge interest in the movie, I'd confidently predict it would be the biggest movie of 2012 -- though that would be as foolhardy as predicting it will flop based on the number of fans on the SHH-Avengers forum.

[JKM]

Did you just diss the TDKR trailer? Really? The trailer promises an epic with things we've never seen in a superhero film (civil unrest, class warfare, conflict in the streets, an actual ending to a superhero's story) that kind of reflects on the zeitgeist of the moment.

What makes it look boring and uninspired? I want to see TA, but its trailer is just of a generic world domination ramble from a villain we've already seen and then an IM trailer-styled use of music and montage. Pretty generic, in all honesty.

I don't see why people always get up in arms when somebody dislikes TDKR trailer. It's as if you either you love it, and find it to be the greatest thing to ever bless your eyes, or you're simply a troll. Personally, it's hard for me to give a review of the trailer as it has yet to be officially release online (funny that, huh), and the bootlegs just don't do it justice, no matter the quality. Having said that, from what I have seen, it just doesn't excite me the way the Avengers trailer did. Not even close. I sometimes wonder if I am seeing a different trailer to some people, I mean it was good, but not the second coming of Christ as people make it out to be. I assume they're still holding a lot back, being early on in post.

Then of course, we have the prologue. The thing that annoyed me the most about it, was just how unoriginal it turned out to be. I didn't have that much trouble with Bane's voice (most of the time) but it still needs a lot of work.

Back to your points, I fount TDKR trailer to be very similar in some aspects to TDK. Just in tone etc. I do agree though, that TA plot is generic on the surface, cars blowing up left and right, a villain who wants to rule the world, but there's just one key point that you seem to be overlooking: It's the Avengers. We haven't seen these characters come together before on screen, or more so ANYTHING like this happen before. This alone makes it an event movie.

Then you have Batman.

[CaptainStacy]

I don't see why people always get up in arms when somebody dislikes TDKR trailer. It's as if you either you love it, and find it to be the greatest thing to ever bless your eyes, or you're simply a troll. Personally, it's hard for me to give a review of the trailer as it has yet to be officially release online (funny that, huh), and the bootlegs just don't do it justice, no matter the quality. Having said that, from what I have seen, it just doesn't excite me the way the Avengers trailer did. Not even close. I sometimes wonder if I am seeing a different trailer to some people, I mean it was good, but not the second coming as people make it out to be. I assume they're still holding a lot back, being early on in post.

Then of course, we have the prologue. The thing that annoyed me the most about it, was just how unoriginal it turned out to be. I didn't have that much trouble with Bane's voice (most of the time) but it still needs a lot of work.

Back to your points, I fount TDKR trailer to be very similar in some aspects to TDK. Just in tone etc. I do agree though, that TA plot is generic on the surface, cars blowing up left and right, a villain who wants to rule the world, but there's just one key point that you seem to be overlooking: It's the Avengers. We haven't seen these characters come together before on screen, or more so ANYTHING like this happen before. This alone makes it an event movie.

Then you have Batman.

Thank you. :up:

[DACrowe]

I don't see why people always get up in arms when somebody dislikes TDKR trailer.

I'm not so much up in arms as surprised. It's the first negative thing I've heard about TDKR trailer all week and it was said so off-the-cuff, I was intrigued.

Back to your points, I fount TDKR trailer to be very similar in some aspects to TDK. Just in tone etc. I do agree though, that TA plot is generic on the surface, cars blowing up left and right, a villain who wants to rule the world, but there's just one key point that you seem to be overlooking: It's the Avengers. We haven't seen these characters come together before on screen, or more so ANYTHING like this happen before. This alone makes it an event movie.

Then you have Batman.
Eh. The novelty of The Avengers should mean something epic for me. The first problem is all the MCU movies feel so generic that they don't feel like separate characters coming together in this epic adventure all-its-own. The films prior to TA felt like incomplete prequels to this film and when the trailer hit, it honestly looked like Iron Man 3 except now Tony has a lot of sidekicks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to TA. It looks like a blast of solid entertainment, but after ten years of dozens of superhero movies, the fact that a bunch of them are teaming up is not blowing me away. It looks like a fun popcorn flick and I hope it's great because I love Whedon, but I'd like something more from it. It's hard to explain.

And yes, then you have Batman. But the trailer promised to me something epic in scope, untouched ground in a superhero film (a breakdown of society) and also something reflective of the last few years since the 2008 crash. I just was left wanting more.

[Marvin]

Avengers will be better and do better than the original Iron man.

Any doubters?

[CJ]

It'll be big, but I don't think it will top or match the money that The Dark Knight made. I don't think The Dark Knight Rises will even match that.

[Marvin]

Transformers did...

[DarthAlani]

The Avengers will be Marvel Studios biggest film so far, it will finish in the top 3 for the years. Behind Batman and Hobbit

[cherokeesam]

Did you just diss the TDKR trailer? Really? The trailer promises an epic with things we've never seen in a superhero film (civil unrest, class warfare, conflict in the streets, an actual ending to a superhero's story) that kind of reflects on the zeitgeist of the moment.



Wait a minute. You just described every single X-Men movie ever made.

[Son of Coul]

As far as The Avengers not being "on the grid" or anything-- I'm studying abroad next semester in England and there's a facebook group of about 35 (very different) people where we post questions and stuff. On one question I had about movie theaters, I made an offhand comment buried below several other comments kidding about all of us doing a midnight showing for The Avengers and in no time 7 people liked it and were onboard. (I also got two friend requests because of it haha)

I think people here really sell the GA short, as if nobody cares about superheroes that aren't Batman or Spider-Man. This thing may not shatter records, but it will rock the box office. No doubt about it.

Wait a minute. You just described every single X-Men movie ever made.

Haha :up:

[xeno000]

Transformers: DOTM, Pirates of the Caribean Whatever and Harry Potter: DH Pt. 2 all topped the $1 billion mark this summer alone. I saw all of those movies and only one of the three was worthy of earning that much, in my opinion. What that tells me, besides the fact that there is a mass audience for mediocre blockbusters, is that it is entirely possible for any film with the right sort of appeal to broad audiences to rake in a billion at the box office. I'm not making any predictions at all, just pointing out that the billion-dollar mark has been hit repeatedly of late.

[Superhero 101]

This movie will be Big ginormous even but it isn't going to be the biggest superhero movie...

[munchie64]

Transformers: DOTM, Pirates of the Caribean Whatever and Harry Potter: DH Pt. 2 all topped the $1 billion mark this summer alone. I saw all of those movies and only one of the three was worthy of earning that much, in my opinion. What that tells me, besides the fact that there is a mass audience for mediocre blockbusters, is that it is entirely possible for any film with the right sort of appeal to broad audiences to rake in a billion at the box office. I'm not making any predictions at all, just pointing out that the billion-dollar mark has been hit repeatedly of late.
The question is then, what film will have the most audience appeal. Just for next year out of Avengers, ASM and TDKR we have no idea right now. Sure The Dark Knight made more than the others, but Marvel DVD sales are amazing. Sure the other Spider films made heaps, but will the general public care after Spider-man 3?

Any argument for those 3 films can be countered by a point by the other side. We will not know definitively until release since they're all so possible to be #1 box office wise.

[tek]

saw the tdkr new trailer and I am not buying the transparent hype of some. tdk trailer to me was fantastic with the ledger/joker charisma making it hard not to rewatch. this trailer felt a little camp in parts with the chanting and bane wearing a fur coat! the american football field disappearing was hokey too. Most of my interest comes from alfred and bruce and the dead parents angle. The avengers trailer was more interesting to me. Hoping Avengers makes a packetload! the only way tdkr betters tdk is if ledger/joker was still ticking. Imagine the hype then

[Tony Stark]

Did you just diss the TDKR trailer? Really? The trailer promises an epic with things we've never seen in a superhero film (civil unrest, class warfare, conflict in the streets, an actual ending to a superhero's story) that kind of reflects on the zeitgeist of the moment.

What makes it look boring and uninspired? I want to see TA, but its trailer is just of a generic world domination ramble from a villain we've already seen and then an IM trailer-styled use of music and montage. Pretty generic, in all honesty.

Yeah I did, just like you trashed the Avengers trailer.

It sucks because of exactly what you said. The "zeitgeist"? Seriously? It's like Downey said the movie is soooo f*ing smart that I guess I have to be a genious level intellect like Nolan to appreciate it.

The football scene is laughable and shows how Nolan has completely lost his mind. Is the running back supposed to be Clark Kent, since somehow he can run across a field with a f-ing seismic shockwave going across it?

It sucked but Nolanites like you are going to defend it no matter what.

[Tony Stark]

I'm sorry if my previous post came off as a little harsh. I'm just so sick of the snobbery surrounding Nolan's work that a guy I used to respect, I pretty much loath everything coming out from this guy.

[DACrowe]

Wait a minute. You just described every single X-Men movie ever made.

Not really. If we want to talk about social issues like gay rights or more broad civil rights, sure. But if you can show me the X-film with broad conflict in the streets among civilians and authority or, more specifically, one of the two (Wolverine and XFC) post-2008 that touches on the growing economic frustrations? C'mon, Bane saying "take control of your city," like a comic book version of Glenn Beck (or Keith Olbermann to keep it non-political), Catwoman threatening that one day the rich will "wonder how you could live so large while leaving so little for the rest of us?"

It's not subtle. But it is intriguing and has imagery I'd compare more to something like Gangs of New York than the traditional superhero movie look. I'm not saying it's brilliant or that it will work--I haven't seen it yet--but it surely piqued my interest by being so different.

[DACrowe]

Yeah I did, just like you trashed the Avengers trailer.

It sucks because of exactly what you said. The "zeitgeist"? Seriously? It's like Downey said the movie is soooo f*ing smart that I guess I have to be a genious level intellect like Nolan to appreciate it.

See previous post about "zeitgeist." I like how you are trying to insult me because I used a supposedly big word. Can I change it to "timely" or "contemporary" and avoid the insults?

I never said you had to be a genius to enjoy a Nolan movie. They're almost all crowd pleasing mainstream fare (including his Batman trilogy). I fail to see why challenging the audience though makes them pretentious or elitist. And I'm really not trying to turn this into a pissing contest between TA and TDKR.

The football scene is laughable and shows how Nolan has completely lost his mind. Is the running back supposed to be Clark Kent, since somehow he can run across a field with a f-ing seismic shockwave going across it?

It sucked but Nolanites like you are going to defend it no matter what.

I'm not a Noalnite. At least I don't think he is infallible or that TDK was the best movie ever. I preferred SM2 over BB, I loved IM1 and yadda yadda yadda. I realy don't see why it has to be one or the other around here. I now know why you hate the trailer, so yay.

P.S. Is the football scene anymore ridiculous than Baysplosions destroying a line of taxis? I thought both scenes looked like the money shots they were intended to be.

[Avenger]

When Captain America: The First Avenger was releases, its first week combined DVD/Blu-Ray sales amounted to well over $52 million, which was greater than the total sales for Thor over 7 entire weeks. (Thor had total sales of around $47 million.) Cap sold like gangbusters, which seemed to be a bit of a shock within the industry.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8515/17115395.png

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/9331/89232131.pngThanks for digging up that information, that's really awesome. I think Cap 2 is going to do very good business (as long as Marvel chooses its release date carefully).

[Splat]

Why does it always resort back to the Avengers vs TDKR? They're both gonna make a lot of $ and be great films probably. You don't have like just one or the other. Besides I thought we weren't supposed to be having these arguments anymore. They're seperate forums for a reason.

[Shadowlord X]

Did you just diss the TDKR trailer? Really? The trailer promises an epic with things we've never seen in a superhero film (civil unrest, class warfare, conflict in the streets, an actual ending to a superhero's story) that kind of reflects on the zeitgeist of the moment.

What makes it look boring and uninspired? I want to see TA, but its trailer is just of a generic world domination ramble from a villain we've already seen and then an IM trailer-styled use of music and montage. Pretty generic, in all honesty.


I have to agree that tdkr's trailer looks boring and uninspired. Some don't really care about civil unrest, class warfare, etc., and don't think that just having stuff that hasn't been in a CBSM before makes the movie impressive. And pseudo-Bane/mini-Bane looks like ****.

People who love nolan need to get over the fact that many people don't like his stuff and don't think that whatever he pulls out of his @$$ ans throws on the screen is automatically great.

[Shadowlord X]

I'm sorry if my previous post came off as a little harsh. I'm just so sick of the snobbery surrounding Nolan's work that a guy I used to respect, I pretty much loath everything coming out from this guy.

Agreed!

[cherokeesam]

Not really. If we want to talk about social issues like gay rights or more broad civil rights, sure. But if you can show me the X-film with broad conflict in the streets among civilians and authority or, more specifically, one of the two (Wolverine and XFC) post-2008 that touches on the growing economic frustrations? C'mon, Bane saying "take control of your city," like a comic book version of Glenn Beck (or Keith Olbermann to keep it non-political), Catwoman threatening that one day the rich will "wonder how you could live so large while leaving so little for the rest of us?"

It's not subtle. But it is intriguing and has imagery I'd compare more to something like Gangs of New York than the traditional superhero movie look. I'm not saying it's brilliant or that it will work--I haven't seen it yet--but it surely piqued my interest by being so different.

I'd say X3 had a buttload of "broad conflict in the streets among civilians and authority." That was the theme of the whole story. As for addressing the Great Recession-Depression of 2008+, obviously, the X-films predate that. But I'm assuming you meant that it's great that TDKR is topical and relevant, and I'm pointing out that the X-films were certainly topical and relevant in the late 90s-early 00s. So, no, there's nothing new or innovative in the TDKR trailer. I'm not dissing it; I like it just as much as the Avengers trailer. But neither is knocking my socks off the way that trailers for TDK, Begins, Iron Man, Thor, Green Lantern, Watchmen and others did.

[Marvin]

Transformers: DOTM, Pirates of the Caribean Whatever and Harry Potter: DH Pt. 2 all topped the $1 billion mark this summer alone. I saw all of those movies and only one of the three was worthy of earning that much, in my opinion. What that tells me, besides the fact that there is a mass audience for mediocre blockbusters, is that it is entirely possible for any film with the right sort of appeal to broad audiences to rake in a billion at the box office. I'm not making any predictions at all, just pointing out that the billion-dollar mark has been hit repeatedly of late.

In other words, you didn't like the other two as much as the third. Can't wait till people are saying the same thing about this years batch.

[JB-the-Hunter]

In other words, you didn't like the other two as much as the third. Can't wait till people are saying the same thing about this years batch.

1) Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
2) The Avengers
3) The Amazing Spider-Man?
4) The Dark Knight Rises

[hatebox]

I have to agree that tdkr's trailer looks boring and uninspired.

Wow, I'm massively shocked Shadowlord X doesn't like something Batman related.

[jacobed]

As much as I'm lookin forward to the Avengers, I'm pretty sure that The Dark Knight Rises and The Amazing Spider-Man will top it in just about every imaginable. Though I don't see Spider-Man beating it in box office.

[Tony Stark]

Why does it always resort back to the Avengers vs TDKR? They're both gonna make a lot of $ and be great films probably. You don't have like just one or the other. Besides I thought we weren't supposed to be having these arguments anymore. They're seperate forums for a reason.

I agree,they both will make money. Someone said it's automatic that TDKR will make more money. I simply said the trailer was boring and uninspiring especially compared with the trailer for TDK.

TDKR will have a big opening, but it's not going to be anywhere close to 500M domestic like TDK. It will be in the 300 range which is where I suspect Avengers will be, so it could easily be the biggest money wise next year.

As for the rest someone thought it was impossible to not like the TDKR trailer. Well I didn't, and my wife didn't either. In fact I was kinda disturbed at how silly it was.

[Tony Stark]

1) Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
2) The Avengers
3) The Amazing Spider-Man?
4) The Dark Knight Rises

TAS is my darkhorse for the Summer of 2012. As much as I orignially wanted to dislike the project. I am very intrigued.

One thing that does bother me though, is it doesn't look like we are getting any J. Jonah Jameson, which I think would be a shame.

I am very much looking forward to Dennis Learly as Cpt. Stacey going after Spider-man. The whole Spider-man being disliked by the cops was glossed over in the Raimi films.

[Marvin]

Marvel will milk Avengers release date and 3D conversion for that always extra edge.

[Splat]

I agree,they both will make money. Someone said it's automatic that TDKR will make more money. I simply said the trailer was boring and uninspiring especially compared with the trailer for TDK.

TDKR will have a big opening, but it's not going to be anywhere close to 500M domestic like TDK. It will be in the 300 range which is where I suspect Avengers will be, so it could easily be the biggest money wise next year.

As for the rest someone thought it was impossible to not like the TDKR trailer. Well I didn't, and my wife didn't either. In fact I was kinda disturbed at how silly it was.

And that's cool, if you didn't care for it no big deal. I'm just sick and tired of the Avengers vs TDKR arguments.

[Alientraveller]

I do wonder if Avengers might get some negative reviews solely based on anticipation for TDKR, I remember years ago X2 got some thrashing because critics were saying people should save their money for The Matrix Reloaded.

Me, I can't wait for Avengers and TDKR and hope they're both great, because I don't want a repeat of 2011 where Marvel's films were great and DC's attempt at something new was a let down. I always hope as I do each year is successful for all involved in the movie business.

[Godsfireworks]

And that's cool, if you didn't care for it no big deal. I'm just sick and tired of the Avengers vs TDKR arguments.

I think basically everyone is.

[Splat]

I think basically everyone is.

Apparently not.

[DACrowe]

All I did was ask a question about why someone disliked the trailer (the first I'd seen of someone saying that) and certain posters became surprisingly aggrieved and took it as an excuse to vent their hatred for Nolan and all things Batman. Go figure.

[Quasimod0]

People are allowed to dislike a trailer

[DACrowe]

Never said they weren't. Fanboys take everything so personally.

[Shadowlord X]

Wow, I'm massively shocked Shadowlord X doesn't like something Batman related.


Actually I liked the original Burton Batman films and Batman Returns to this day remains one of my favourite CBM's. I also liked Batman Begins although it has lost some appeal now that I realise that I wasn't real CB fantasy.

What I don't like is the IMO vastly overrated and inspidly dull tdk. tdkr's trailer looks to be following in the same vein. Honestly the trailer did nothing for me....just speaking the truth. There isn't anything epic or even interesting in it....but nolanites are hardwired now to think anything nolan throws up onscreen is great.

[Shadowlord X]

All I did was ask a question about why someone disliked the trailer (the first I'd seen of someone saying that) and certain posters became surprisingly aggrieved and took it as an excuse to vent their hatred for Nolan and all things Batman. Go figure.


You sound reasonable. That's not how it sounded. What it sounded like was the typical stuff people get from nolanites...which is incredulity in response to not liking nolan's stuff.

[Weadazoid]

I liked the teaser better then the trailer

[hatebox]

If TDKR is well reviewed, 400m domestic is the floor for its box office. It'll almost certainly break the opening weekend record, and after that'd it'd only need a 2.35 multiplyer to get over 400m, which is the least you'd expect from a Nolan movie if the performances of his previous blockbusters are anything to go by. If the film's outright bad then all bets are off, of course.

Conversely, I think 400m is the absolute ceiling for the Avengers, given the varying degrees of success of the film's characters in previous movies. Like I said before, where it'll be more competetive is the international box office. A lot of overseas countries still dig 3D for some reason...

[Iron_Stark]

If TDKR is well reviewed, 400m domestic is the floor for its box office. It'll almost certainly break the opening weekend record, and after that'd it'd only need a 2.35 multiplyer to get over 400m, which is the least you'd expect from a Nolan movie if the performances of his previous blockbusters are anything to go by. If the film's outright bad then all bets are off, of course.

Conversely, I think 400m is the absolute ceiling for the Avengers, given the varying degrees of success of the film's characters in previous movies. Like I said before, where it'll be more competetive is the international box office. A lot of overseas countries still dig 3D for some reason...

Well after 10 Batman movies, one would hope there are at least 2 that make over 300 million domestically. I don't know how it works, but hopefully with that success, WB/DC can make another movie not named Batman or Superman and not screw it up like Green Lantern.

And if 400m is the ceiling for the Avengers, then I'll be popping open the champagne bottle.

[Thedudehimself]

This won t be the biggest superhero film ever. Not in terms of storytelling and neither will it be box office wise.

Today in one year, after the BIG 2012 summer is done, we all will see how merciless TDKR will have defeated The Avengers.

Nolans groundbreaking Batman myth finale is going to be something really special. Something of quality. The Avengers is going to be another bland action movie, too generic to be memorable or special.

The Avengers will be of the same quality as all the lead ups. Fun Popcorn Action, but really nothing special, pure summer entertainment. I for one rated all pre-AVENGERS films as nothing special. TDKR will be epic. It will be flabbergasting. It will be something people will talk about.

Hell, even today, 3 and a half years after TDK many people I know still talk about it. Same will go for TDKR. It ll be a worthy finale to one of the best trilogies in film history.

No one will talk about The Avengers in 4 years.

[munchie64]

What were the views on the most viewed Avenger's trailer after 24 hours? Serious question. Just want to compare to TDKRs views. It looks like it's gonna be a little over one and a half million on the most viewed trailer.

Of course there are so many duplicates for both film's trailers that it's hard to tell perfectly, but I think the most viewed ones are a good basic indication.


EDIT: Just saw an article saying that The Avengers trailer hit 2 million in five days. Looks like TDKR has a little bit of an advantage, for now anyway the true test will come when the theatrical trailer for Avengers is released.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10631970-watch-now-the-avengers-trailer-hits-2m-views-in-youtube-in-5-days/images

[Chewy]

What were the views on the most viewed Avenger's trailer after 24 hours? Serious question. Just want to compare to TDKRs views. It looks like it's gonna be a little over one and a half million on the most viewed trailer.

Of course there are so many duplicates for both film's trailers that it's hard to tell perfectly, but I think the most viewed ones are a good basic indication.


EDIT: Just saw an article saying that The Avengers trailer hit 2 million in five days. Looks like TDKR has a little bit of an advantage, for now anyway the true test will come when the theatrical trailer for Avengers is released.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10631970-watch-now-the-avengers-trailer-hits-2m-views-in-youtube-in-5-days/images
There were three copies of the Avengers trailer on YT that each had a million views within a day

[Bruce Malone]

The problem with the avengers hype build is the long extended tease they put the general audience through.

By the time the avengers comes out it will be 4 years of stark/fury cameo's etc. The fever pitch imo for the avengers came right before iron man 2 kind of brought ppl down on the film.

It will be quite successful don't get me wrong but they hyped this films like it would be the biggest ever and created a burn-out imo.

[cherokeesam]

This won t be the biggest superhero film ever. Not in terms of storytelling and neither will it be box office wise.

Today in one year, after the BIG 2012 summer is done, we all will see how merciless TDKR will have defeated The Avengers.

Nolans groundbreaking Batman myth finale is going to be something really special. Something of quality. The Avengers is going to be another bland action movie, too generic to be memorable or special.

The Avengers will be of the same quality as all the lead ups. Fun Popcorn Action, but really nothing special, pure summer entertainment. I for one rated all pre-AVENGERS films as nothing special. TDKR will be epic. It will be flabbergasting. It will be something people will talk about.

Hell, even today, 3 and a half years after TDK many people I know still talk about it. Same will go for TDKR. It ll be a worthy finale to one of the best trilogies in film history.

No one will talk about The Avengers in 4 years.

But what TDKR fans remain in denial about is the inescapable *fact* that TDK's success hinged hugely on The Joker and/or Heath Ledger. The massive upsurge in interest in the franchise from Batman Begins to TDK speaks volumes to that.

Regardless of how good TDKR might be in script, acting and directorial acumen, Hardy/Bane and Hathaway/Catwoman simply *cannot* bring that same global mystique, charisma and badassery of Ledger's Joker.

TL;DR: People went to TDK for Joker. Not even remotely close to those numbers for Bane and Catwoman.

[munchie64]

There were three copies of the Avengers trailer on YT that each had a million views within a day
The article lied to me then :cmad:
Well looks like we're back to having no idea who's gonna win.

[xeno000]

There were three copies of the Avengers trailer on YT that each had a million views within a day

The article lied to me then :cmad:
Well looks like we're back to having no idea who's gonna win.

Actually, the most viewed copy of that trailer was the official one on iTunes, which was downloaded 10 million times in 24 hours. Add that total to all of the ones on YouTube and you have at least 13 million hits in one day.

[Shadowlord X]

This won t be the biggest superhero film ever. Not in terms of storytelling and neither will it be box office wise.

Today in one year, after the BIG 2012 summer is done, we all will see how merciless TDKR will have defeated The Avengers.

Nolans groundbreaking Batman myth finale is going to be something really special. Something of quality. The Avengers is going to be another bland action movie, too generic to be memorable or special.

The Avengers will be of the same quality as all the lead ups. Fun Popcorn Action, but really nothing special, pure summer entertainment. I for one rated all pre-AVENGERS films as nothing special. TDKR will be epic. It will be flabbergasting. It will be something people will talk about.

Hell, even today, 3 and a half years after TDK many people I know still talk about it. Same will go for TDKR. It ll be a worthy finale to one of the best trilogies in film history.

No one will talk about The Avengers in 4 years.


LOL. Wow, you must be the high priest at the church of nolan....a truly pathetic existence. I have to give that guy credit though...I don't think I've ever seen a movie director generate a mass of feeble-minded internet junkie followers.

[Iron_Stark]

This won t be the biggest superhero film ever. Not in terms of storytelling and neither will it be box office wise.

Today in one year, after the BIG 2012 summer is done, we all will see how merciless TDKR will have defeated The Avengers.

Nolans groundbreaking Batman myth finale is going to be something really special. Something of quality. The Avengers is going to be another bland action movie, too generic to be memorable or special.

The Avengers will be of the same quality as all the lead ups. Fun Popcorn Action, but really nothing special, pure summer entertainment. I for one rated all pre-AVENGERS films as nothing special. TDKR will be epic. It will be flabbergasting. It will be something people will talk about.

Hell, even today, 3 and a half years after TDK many people I know still talk about it. Same will go for TDKR. It ll be a worthy finale to one of the best trilogies in film history.

No one will talk about The Avengers in 4 years.

lol, fail post is full of fail.

Sorry, Nolan shot his load already with TDK. No way will Rises come close to it, with the GA, critics and money wise.

Also, Rises doesn't have the Joker.

[munchie64]

Actually, the most viewed copy of that trailer was the official one on iTunes, which was downloaded 10 million times in 24 hours. Add that total to all of the ones on YouTube and you have at least 13 million hits in one day.
Hopefully TDKR comes out on iTunes as well. THAT would be the best comparison possible as of now.


lol, fail post is full of fail.

Sorry, Nolan shot his load already with TDK. No way will Rises come close to it, with the GA, critics and money wise.

Also, Rises doesn't have the Joker.
I agree, except maybe critic wise. I reckon it's shaping up to be better.

Also we know it'll make at least $800 mil based on Inception, which was pretty much sold as "A film by the guy that made Dark Knight". DKR has that AND the fact that it's Batman, which could add another 100 mil. That is of course if its any good.

[DieSmiling]

Really it's a question of "how close can TDKR get to TDK" (since there's no way it does as well) vs. "how much better than Iron Man can Avengers do" (since that's clearly the benchmark for success for Marvel Studios movies).

IMO, both will be over 300 million domestic but below 400 million domestic.

TDKR makes more domestically, Avengers makes more internationally.

I do think it's a bit surprising nobody is even mentioning Spidey.

[Greens]

Thedudehimself has a point.

The Marvel films that led up to the Avengers weren't all that special. I liked Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk and Captain America, but I wouldn't watch them outside of the theater.

You've got to admit that these are spectacle movies. Story-wise they don't have much to offer. I often hear: ''But this is the first team-up movie ever, with MULTIPLE heroes. This is going to be an EVENT!''
I think a lot of people are judging this movie based on its novelty status. This IS a unique experience, and this movie IS going to be spectacular in terms of action, but I'm expecting a lot of reactions like ''OH MY GOD, TONY STARK AND CAPTAIN AMERICA IN ONE ROOM!''

That doesn't mean I won't be seeing this movie. I'm looking forward to it, but the trailer really doesn't do anything for me.

Best superhero movie ever? No.
Highest grossing superhero movie of 2012? Don't think so, but I guess there's a chance.
Most spectacular superhero movie ever? I think it could be.

I see a lot of hatred towards Nolan fans. You already thought of a nickname for them? Give me a break.

[Adamantium Man]

Avengers is an event movie. Be it a good movie or a bad one, it'll be something that wasn't done before - a crossover movie with long-term planning, and part of a larger continuity that will continue. That alone will draw in the non-comicbook-movie-viewing crowd, who will watch it for the sheer novelty.

Also, as I'll never get tired of pointing out, it has fangirl cred, which effectively doubles its target demographic.

TDKR will be another Batman movie, and the third Nolan Batman movie. The only "event" thing about it is that it's the final installment of a trilogy. No doubt it'll be a good movie, but it won't add to its target demographic from TDK. Like before, it'll draw in the Batman fans and the Nolan fans (insofar as the two don't actually overlap), and it will lose those who were only in it for Ledger.

It might actually be a close race.

[munchie64]

It might actually be a close race.
Of course it will be. I don't see how anyone could not think this.

[DieSmiling]

Of course it will be. I don't see how anyone could not think this.

There are always going to be delusional fanboys on either side who think it won't be close.

[Marvin]

Really it's a question of "how close can TDKR get to TDK" (since there's no way it does as well) vs. "how much better than Iron Man can Avengers do" (since that's clearly the benchmark for success for Marvel Studios movies).

IMO, both will be over 300 million domestic but below 400 million domestic.

TDKR makes more domestically, Avengers makes more internationally.

I do think it's a bit surprising nobody is even mentioning Spidey.

Notice how talk seems to surge when a new trailer/footage is released.
Especially with Avengers.

Make your observation after spidey releases it's second trailer(hopefully this time with speaking parts) like everyone else.

Spidey of course being the more recent "biggest" franchise.

[Cth]

Actually, the most viewed copy of that trailer was the official one on iTunes, which was downloaded 10 million times in 24 hours. Add that total to all of the ones on YouTube and you have at least 13 million hits in one day.

And for comparison purposes, Transformers Dark of the Moon was downloaded 6+ million times in 24 hours (and was the previous record holder)

[Marvin]

To be fair they released the Ipad app the week of avengers or something of that nature.
TDKR will be a good measure.

[xeno000]

And for comparison purposes, Transformers Dark of the Moon was downloaded 6+ million times in 24 hours (and was the previous record holder)

Ah, I had wondered about Transformers' numbers. That was one of this year's billion dollar movies. Too bad it's impossible to extrapolate The Avengers' box office potential by comparing the download numbers. :cwink:

[hatebox]

To be fair they released the Ipad app the week of avengers or something of that nature.
TDKR will be a good measure.

And not even that good of a measure since bootleg copies were easily available days before it was released online.

[Moridin]

Biggest ever? I don't know. it certainly has the potential to be one of the biggest to date. I could see it falling in anywhere between $700m to 1bn+.

For me next year is all about Avengers, TDKR & The Hobbit, in no particular order. Spidey is barely on my radar.

LOL. Wow, you must be the high priest at the church of nolan....a truly pathetic existence. I have to give that guy credit though...I don't think I've ever seen a movie director generate a mass of feeble-minded internet junkie followers.

You realise you're every bit as bad as the so called "Nolanites" you crusade against?

[Marvin]

What's interesting is that I think the average person would rather watch the new Spidey film over any of Marvels individual character efforts.

[cherokeesam]

Hopefully TDKR comes out on iTunes as well. THAT would be the best comparison possible as of now.



I agree, except maybe critic wise. I reckon it's shaping up to be better.

Also we know it'll make at least $800 mil based on Inception, which was pretty much sold as "A film by the guy that made Dark Knight". DKR has that AND the fact that it's Batman, which could add another 100 mil. That is of course if its any good.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there've been *no* reviews of TDKR yet. We don't know how it will be received in the press.

Inception also had one of the biggest stars in Hollywood as its lead. That undeniably contributed to the b.o.

Really it's a question of "how close can TDKR get to TDK" (since there's no way it does as well) vs. "how much better than Iron Man can Avengers do" (since that's clearly the benchmark for success for Marvel Studios movies).

IMO, both will be over 300 million domestic but below 400 million domestic.

TDKR makes more domestically, Avengers makes more internationally.

I do think it's a bit surprising nobody is even mentioning Spidey.

I believe you're pretty close to the mark on all points.
Spidey may well turn out to be a great movie, and imho, a far better take on Peter Parker than Mopey Maguire; but it's already weighted down with that whole "reboot" thing. Audiences are already sick and tired of reboots, but they're usually downright livid when a studio reboots a film that's less than 5 years old. Same situation virtually killed TIH.

[DACrowe]

lol, fail post is full of fail.

Sorry, Nolan shot his load already with TDK. No way will Rises come close to it, with the GA, critics and money wise.

Also, Rises doesn't have the Joker.

"Shot his load?"

I have no idea how well TDKR will measure creatively, artistically or critically to TDK because....I (nor anybody else around here) has seen it.

Not in terms of money and box office it and TA are a great deal easier to predict and speculate on given the precedence of their respective franchises as well as recent blockbuster formula.

In The Avengers's case, we know that MCU is overall viewed by the same audience with exceptions here or there. Thus, TA cannot make that much more than its most successful "prequel." That movie is Iron Man domestically ($318 million) and Iron Man 2 WW ($625 million). I think The Avengers should do as well as the highest numbers of both of those because it's new and has a novelty factor with it being a team-up movie. Also, there are probably some (though not many) people who perhaps saw Captain America or Thor but not Iron Man. Add on 3D and ticket inflation and $330-$350 million domestic and $650 to $700 million WW is believable.

With TDKR, I think writing off its success because there is no Ledger or Joker is silly. I do think it probably won't have the legs of TDK, because Bane is not nearly as charismatic a character as Joker, but the movie is promising to be an "event" and will build off the good will of not only TDK, but also Inception from 2010 which grossed almost $300 million domestic and over $800 million WW without having any capes or clowns. If Nolan carries that kind of clout with the GA and critics alone, Batman--even without the Joker--should put him over the top. I think TDKR has a good shot at taking back the title of Opening Weekend from Harry Potter as the hype will be insane, even if the film isn't as good as TDK. Look at how well Spider-Man 3 and X3 did, despite being inferior sequels, they opened huge off of the goodwill of the previous installment. If TDKR is good, and I think it will be great, it should thus track similar to TDK, if only smaller. I think over $400 million domestic and over $900 million WW is very believable. I mean SM3 almost did that WW, so I'm pretty sure the sequel to TDK will as well.

[DACrowe]

What's interesting is that I think the average person would rather watch the new Spidey film over any of Marvels individual character efforts.

I bet TASM can outgross TIH, CA, and Thor simply because Spidey is far more popular than all those characters. But unless it's REALLY GREAT, I doubt it will reach the levels of Iron Man, much less previous Spidey films. Crossing $200 million on being Spidey alone seems reasonable. But that's still less.

[Son of Coul]

What's interesting is that I think the average person would rather watch the new Spidey film over any of Marvels individual character efforts.

So wait, the GA would rather see a Spider-Man movie than other non-Wolverine characters??? Get outta town!

[Shadowlord X]

You realise you're every bit as bad as the so called "Nolanites" you crusade against?

You're entitled to think so. I only retaliate against nolanites who come here to try and rile up MARVEL fans...as was the obvious case with this guy. I don't consider myself as bad as them since I don't go onto Batman boards to try and aggravate Batman fans/nolanites. They persistently go where they aren't wanted.

[cherokeesam]

"Shot his load?"

I have no idea how well TDKR will measure creatively, artistically or critically to TDK because....I (nor anybody else around here) has seen it.

Not in terms of money and box office it and TA are a great deal easier to predict and speculate on given the precedence of their respective franchises as well as recent blockbuster formula.

In The Avengers's case, we know that MCU is overall viewed by the same audience with exceptions here or there. Thus, TA cannot make that much more than its most successful "prequel." That movie is Iron Man domestically ($318 million) and Iron Man 2 WW ($625 million). I think The Avengers should do as well as the highest numbers of both of those because it's new and has a novelty factor with it being a team-up movie. Also, there are probably some (though not many) people who perhaps saw Captain America or Thor but not Iron Man. Add on 3D and ticket inflation and $330-$350 million domestic and $650 to $700 million WW is believable.

With TDKR, I think writing off its success because there is no Ledger or Joker is silly. I do think it probably won't have the legs of TDK, because Bane is not nearly as charismatic a character as Joker, but the movie is promising to be an "event" and will build off the good will of not only TDK, but also Inception from 2010 which grossed almost $300 million domestic and over $800 million WW without having any capes or clowns. If Nolan carries that kind of clout with the GA and critics alone, Batman--even without the Joker--should put him over the top. I think TDKR has a good shot at taking back the title of Opening Weekend from Harry Potter as the hype will be insane, even if the film isn't as good as TDK. Look at how well Spider-Man 3 and X3 did, despite being inferior sequels, they opened huge off of the goodwill of the previous installment. If TDKR is good, and I think it will be great, it should thus track similar to TDK, if only smaller. I think over $400 million domestic and over $900 million WW is very believable. I mean SM3 almost did that WW, so I'm pretty sure the sequel to TDK will as well.

Inception also had Leo DiCaprio, one of the biggest box office marquee playas in the industry today. Probably the biggest one that Nolan has ever worked with.

TDKR doesn't have Joker, and TDKR doesn't have Leo. *Both* of those facts virtually ensure that TDKR will not do TDK or Inception numbers.

[Spider-Vader]

What's interesting is that I think the average person would rather watch the new Spidey film over any of Marvels individual character efforts.

The two Iron Man movies were nearly as successful as the Spidey movies, so I don't think this is true.

[DarthAlani]

So TDKR won't do $292 million domestic or over $800 million WW? You Marvel fanboys need to lay off the whatever drugs you are on

[cherokeesam]

So TDKR won't do $292 million domestic or over $800 million WW. You Marvel fanboys need to lay off the whatever drugs you are on


Here's a Wild Ass Stab for you:

TDKR: $343 million domestic (US)
$733 million worldwide

There. There's my prediction. I got it from averaging the take on BB, TDK, and Inception.

[DarthAlani]

TDKR would have to suck hairy ass to drop that much.

[Splat]

So I'm guessing that which ever movie, the Avengers or TDKR, makes more money that the fans of that movie get a cut of profits right?

Otherwise I don't understand how people can get so worked up over this stuff. It's ridiculous.

[cherokeesam]

TDKR would have to suck hairy ass to drop that much.

No, those are *great* numbers. They're just not TDK numbers. And I'll bet any money you care to lose that TDKR will *not* do TDK or Inception numbers. Here's what it's got going against it:

a) no Joker
b) no marquee lead, except for Anne Hathaway
c) Anne Hathaway (hey, the fanboys have been hating on her since Day One. She's gonna have to do something Pfeifferific to win over the Nolanite virgin geeks)
d) Tom Hardy
e) Tom Hardy's voice (now in Mumblevision)

And here's a biggie:

f) political commentary. Horrors! The movie obviously is about class warfare, and pits Bane and Selina's 99 Percenters against evil billionaires like Bruce Wayne. I'd *seriously* like to see a red-state/blue-state breakdown of the Nolanite camps....betcha they're overwhelmingly red-staters and OWS-haters. Especially considering all the brouhaha earlier during filming when Nolan threatened to bring the *actual* OWS into the movie, but backed down after the tidal wave of fan-*****ery.

[Cth]

Here's a Wild Ass Stab for you:

TDKR: $343 million domestic (US)
$733 million worldwide

There. There's my prediction. I got it from averaging the take on BB, TDK, and Inception.

Not bad, although maybe a little low on the international, given the increase in international numbers lately.

Another thing to consider is DKR has no 3D, whereas Avengers does, which can skew the numbers further making comparisons even more pointless.

Harry Potter 7/2 grossed 381 domestic, and Transformers 3 grossed 352 -- given how crowded last summer was, and how crowded 2012 will be, it's a fair comparison given today's economic climate.

TF3 internation got 770 while HP got 947.. so somewhere between the two is a good figure to aim for.

Anyways, looking forward to both films, although if I could only see one, it'd be Avengers.

[DACrowe]

Inception also had Leo DiCaprio, one of the biggest box office marquee playas in the industry today. Probably the biggest one that Nolan has ever worked with.

TDKR doesn't have Joker, and TDKR doesn't have Leo. *Both* of those facts virtually ensure that TDKR will not do TDK or Inception numbers.

Leo automatically guarantees $800 million WW? I'm sure the producers of J. Edgar, Shutter Island, Revolutionary Road, Blood Diamond, The Aviator, etc. would love to hear you explain that. There is no denying that Leo's star power could have contributed to Inception, but that was his biggest (and also most mainstream) film since Titanic. TDKR also has Christian Bale who is comparable in mainstream celebrity to DiCaprio. Not to mention it has Anne Hathaway who has had more mainstream success as a popular actor post-1990s (in Leo's case) than either.

But let's be honest, people aren't going to turn out in droves for TDKR because of the marquee names. They'll turn out because it's a sequel to TDK. Box office history dictates sequels to highly regarded blockbusters always open bigger than the critical/audience darling even if they are inferior. Examples are Spider-Man 3 opening way larger than Spider-Man 2, X3 over X2, The Matrix Reloaded over The Matrix, all the sequels to Pirates of the Caribbean opening larger than the first, etc.

TDKR is going to open over $150 million domestic in its first weekend. You really think it can't reach the final $291 million take Inception had? Assuming it is at least a good movie, that hype should propel it to over $800 million and past Inception's $825 million at least. Again, SM3 is widely considered the worst Spider-Man film and it made around $900 million WW. Pirates 4 is nobody's favorite of the series and it made $1 billion WW. I do think a lack of Joker iconography will cause TDKR to make less than TDK in the long-run, but it will have to be REALLY BAD not to clear $300 million domestic and $825 WW like Inception did. We're talking Green Lantern levels of awfulness.

I don't think that will be the case.

[hatebox]

TDKR doesn't have Joker, and TDKR doesn't have Leo. *Both* of those facts virtually ensure that TDKR will not do TDK or Inception numbers.

TDKR doing less than Inception numbers (I assume you mean WW) would be considered a disappointment by most in the industry. 800m is the floor for it's overall take unless it's unexpectedly bad.

[hatebox]

f) political commentary. Horrors! The movie obviously is about class warfare, and pits Bane and Selina's 99 Percenters against evil billionaires like Bruce Wayne. I'd *seriously* like to see a red-state/blue-state breakdown of the Nolanite camps....betcha they're overwhelmingly red-staters and OWS-haters. Especially considering all the brouhaha earlier during filming when Nolan threatened to bring the *actual* OWS into the movie, but backed down after the tidal wave of fan-*****ery.

The problem with that theory is that Bruce Wayne is on the side of the 99%. He's the 1% through birth, not attitude, same as his father was depicted in Begins.

[munchie64]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there've been *no* reviews of TDKR yet. We don't know how it will be received in the press.
I was responding to someone who guessed that it would do worse than TDK critically, so I was just expressing that so far I think he could be wrong from what we've seen. The film looks better than TDK to me so there is a possibility it could be better reviewed.

Also Christian Bale and Anne Hathaway could probably sell a movie as good as Leo.

[jmc]

Inception also had Leo DiCaprio, one of the biggest box office marquee playas in the industry today. Probably the biggest one that Nolan has ever worked with.

TDKR doesn't have Joker, and TDKR doesn't have Leo. *Both* of those facts virtually ensure that TDKR will not do TDK or Inception numbers.

You're talking some serious nonsense there pal. TDK and Inception made almost 2 Billion dollars combined because they were excellent movies.

[Shadowlord X]

So I'm guessing that which ever movie, the Avengers or TDKR, makes more money that the fans of that movie get a cut of profits right?

Otherwise I don't understand how people can get so worked up over this stuff. It's ridiculous.


LOL. Well said!

[captainrogers]

So I'm guessing that which ever movie, the Avengers or TDKR, makes more money that the fans of that movie get a cut of profits right?

Otherwise I don't understand how people can get so worked up over this stuff. It's ridiculous.
Ditto this.
I don't get some of the passive aggressive to outright venom I see regarding these two films.
It's like some are just hardwired to have the "MarvelZombie vs Nolanite" fight.
Being a guy that's just ProCOMICS (not JUST DC,MARVEL, etc) medium, I enjoy ANY movie that sheds a positive light/is a great Interpritation of it.
Sure one movie will make more than the other.
But I couldn't tell you which.
The hype machine fo both is pretty high, so I doubt either will flop.
And it's fallacy to declare one good movie automatically superior than another good flick as "law".
My opinion of what makes a good movie is some parts depth and mostly rewatchability.
Nolan is most always got depth down in his films.
But i find myself watching CA:TFA more times than I do TDK.
Doesn't mean Caps the "better" movie, but I enjoy it enough to watch it more.
To me, NO movie has touched Forest Gump in terms of depth, and rewatchability.
I see some comments from "Nolanites" and am confused as to the energy spent just thrashing non Bat movies.
Marvel Zombies aren't that much better with their responses.
(and vice versa, as I know the instigation happens both ways)
OpenIng night, I'll be there ENTHUSIASTICALLY for BOTH Whedon's and Nolan's offerings.

[munchie64]

Ditto this.
I don't get some of the passive aggressive to outright venom I see regarding these two films.
It's like some are just hardwired to have the "MarvelZombie vs Nolanite" fight.
Being a guy that's just ProCOMICS (not JUST DC,MARVEL, etc) medium, I enjoy ANY movie that sheds a positive light/is a great Interpritation of it.
Sure one movie will make more than the other.
But I couldn't tell you which.
The hype machine fo both is pretty high, so I doubt either will flop.
And it's fallacy to declare one good movie automatically superior than another good flick as "law".
My opinion of what makes a good movie is some parts depth and mostly rewatchability.
Nolan is most always got depth down in his films.
But i find myself watching CA:TFA more times than I do TDK.
Doesn't mean Caps the "better" movie, but I enjoy it enough to watch it more.
To me, NO movie has touched Forest Gump in terms of depth, and rewatchability.
I see some comments from "Nolanites" and am confused as to the energy spent just thrashing non Bat movies.
Marvel Zombies aren't that much better with their responses.
(and vice versa, as I know the instigation happens both ways)
OpenIng night, I'll be there ENTHUSIASTICALLY for BOTH Whedon's and Nolan's offerings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/Lusitanea/Gifs/citizen-kane-clapping-gif.gif

[cherokeesam]

The problem with that theory is that Bruce Wayne is on the side of the 99%. He's the 1% through birth, not attitude, same as his father was depicted in Begins.


Yes, I'm absolutely sure Bruce would sympathize with the 99%ers, or at least feel a little guilty about his riches. That doesn't make bringing up the subject in TDKR any less of a political hot potato, particularly in America. If Nolan's story is pro-OWS, the right-wingers in America will piss and moan and boycott; if it's anti, the left-wingers will. Either way, TDKR may ultimately prove to be just one more wedge in the red-state/blue-state civil war brewing in the US of A. (In an election year, too....fancy that. :))

You're talking some serious nonsense there pal. TDK and Inception made almost 2 Billion dollars combined because they were excellent movies.

So were Memento, Insomnia, and The Prestige. None of those did even close to TDK or Inception numbers, though. What TDK and Inception had going for them were things with mass appeal: Joker, in the former; and Leo DiCaprio and spectacular buzzworthy visuals, in the latter. I don't see anything in TDKR generating that same kind of buzz.

Ditto this.
I don't get some of the passive aggressive to outright venom I see regarding these two films.
It's like some are just hardwired to have the "MarvelZombie vs Nolanite" fight.
Being a guy that's just ProCOMICS (not JUST DC,MARVEL, etc) medium, I enjoy ANY movie that sheds a positive light/is a great Interpritation of it.
Sure one movie will make more than the other.
But I couldn't tell you which.
The hype machine fo both is pretty high, so I doubt either will flop.
And it's fallacy to declare one good movie automatically superior than another good flick as "law".
My opinion of what makes a good movie is some parts depth and mostly rewatchability.
Nolan is most always got depth down in his films.
But i find myself watching CA:TFA more times than I do TDK.
Doesn't mean Caps the "better" movie, but I enjoy it enough to watch it more.
To me, NO movie has touched Forest Gump in terms of depth, and rewatchability.
I see some comments from "Nolanites" and am confused as to the energy spent just thrashing non Bat movies.
Marvel Zombies aren't that much better with their responses.
(and vice versa, as I know the instigation happens both ways)
OpenIng night, I'll be there ENTHUSIASTICALLY for BOTH Whedon's and Nolan's offerings.

I'll be there, too, supporting both. And both will be great movies. And both will be box-office bonanzas. But I'm willing to bet anybody that *neither* movie hits the $1 billion WW mark, like so many here rush to assume. In fact, I'm willing to extend the bet to say that neither one will occupy the #1 *or* #2 spots for yearly box office take at the end of 2012.

[Weadazoid]

Both movies are event movies.....

and trust me the idea of having characters from different movies all in one movie is huge

just look at Fast and Furious.... they got the band togeather so to speak and that old franchise did huge numbers this summer


Avengers.... if the trailers really diliver will be phenomenal


Batman will be huge as well

[Shadowlord X]

Box-Office success is based primarily on 3 factors:
- awareness
- mass-market appeal (MMA)
- hype (which only becomes a factor if awareness is high enough)

Quality is only a modifier of those. As are economic factors, competing films, etc.

With all due respect to tdk fans several factors played a HUGE role in its success:
- The first appearance of an iconic character with great MMA since his iconic portrayal by Jack Nicholson.
- That character being played by a totally 'out of left field actor'.
- That actors death which skyrocketed the awareness of the film as it was 'his last great performance'.
- The intentionally spread rumour (brilliant marketing) that intimated that it was HL's portrayal of the Joker that lead to his death. This skyrocketed the awareness and hype to astronomical levels.

This made huge numbers of people (a great proportion of whom would never go see a Batman film under normal circumstances) rush out to see just what was this great performance that lead to HL's death.

Once they were there they got a crime drama (with terrorism overtones) rather than a real superhero movie. This made MMA of the movie much greater and people who are not into superhero films would heartily recommend the film to others.

Also HL's performance was beloved by many leading to repeat watchings.

I'm not saying the percieved quality of the film (viewed by many as excellent) was not a factor, but believing that that was the main factor causing to hit 1 billion is absurd.

On the surface tdkr does not seem to have any of those. The question wrt tdkr is does nolan's name and being the tdk sequel have enough built in hype with the GA after tdk and Inception to make tdkr do the same huge BO???

I cannot answer that. Only time will tell.

[hatebox]

I'll be there, too, supporting both. And both will be great movies. And both will be box-office bonanzas. But I'm willing to bet anybody that *neither* movie hits the $1 billion WW mark, like so many here rush to assume. In fact, I'm willing to extend the bet to say that neither one will occupy the #1 *or* #2 spots for yearly box office take at the end of 2012.


Again, if you're referring to worldwide numbers then The Hobbit was always going to thrash TDKR and The Avengers. Overseas audiences will lap it up.

[Shadowlord X]

Agreed!

I would put money on The Hobbit being the WW #1 grossing film next year.

[Weadazoid]

Box-Office success is based primarily on 3 factors:
- awareness
- mass-market appeal (MMA)
- hype (which only becomes a factor if awareness is high enough)

Quality is only a modifier of those. As are economic factors, competing films, etc.

With all due respect to tdk fans several factors played a HUGE role in its success:
- The first appearance of an iconic character with great MMA since his iconic portrayal by Jack Nicholson.
- That character being played by a totally 'out of left field actor'.
- That actors death which skyrocketed the awareness of the film as it was 'his last great performance'.
- The intentionally spread rumour (brilliant marketing) that intimated that it was HL's portrayal of the Joker that lead to his death. This skyrocketed the awareness and hype to astronomical levels.

This made huge numbers of people (a great proportion of whom would never go see a Batman film under normal circumstances) rush out to see just what was this great performance that lead to HL's death.

Once they were there they got a crime drama (with terrorism overtones) rather than a real superhero movie. This made MMA of the movie much greater and people who are not into superhero films would heartily recommend the film to others.

Also HL's performance was beloved by many leading to repeat watchings.

I'm not saying the percieved quality of the film (viewed by many as excellent) was not a factor, but believing that that was the main factor causing to hit 1 billion is absurd.

On the surface tdkr does not seem to have any of those. The question wrt tdkr is does nolan's name and being the tdk sequel have enough built in hype with the GA after tdk and Inception to make tdkr do the same huge BO???

I cannot answer that. Only time will tell.



But to the films credit all of that built in a huge new audience, of which at least a good 50% will return just to see how the story plays out

[Shadowlord X]

To some extent yes. But I noticed the same thing I did with the first Batman and Batman Returns, i.e., most non-batman fans I spoke too when tdk came just described at as "ok" or "good", but not gushing over it the way batman/dc fans do. I noticed the same thing back with Batman, then when Batman Returns came out a lot of those people didn't go see it. So how much of the regular GA have become fans of the franchise and are eagerly looking forward to the next installment, I don't know.

[DarthAlani]

Yes, I'm absolutely sure Bruce would sympathize with the 99%ers, or at least feel a little guilty about his riches. That doesn't make bringing up the subject in TDKR any less of a political hot potato, particularly in America. If Nolan's story is pro-OWS, the right-wingers in America will piss and moan and boycott; if it's anti, the left-wingers will. Either way, TDKR may ultimately prove to be just one more wedge in the red-state/blue-state civil war brewing in the US of A. (In an election year, too....fancy that. :))



So were Memento, Insomnia, and The Prestige. None of those did even close to TDK or Inception numbers, though. What TDK and Inception had going for them were things with mass appeal: Joker, in the former; and Leo DiCaprio and spectacular buzzworthy visuals, in the latter. I don't see anything in TDKR generating that same kind of buzz.



I'll be there, too, supporting both. And both will be great movies. And both will be box-office bonanzas. But I'm willing to bet anybody that *neither* movie hits the $1 billion WW mark, like so many here rush to assume. In fact, I'm willing to extend the bet to say that neither one will occupy the #1 *or* #2 spots for yearly box office take at the end of 2012.

The Only film that could beat TDKR is Hobbit, and Nolan is just now becoming known.

[DACrowe]

To some extent yes. But I noticed the same thing I did with the first Batman and Batman Returns, i.e., most non-batman fans I spoke too when tdk came just described at as "ok" or "good", but not gushing over it the way batman/dc fans do. I noticed the same thing back with Batman, then when Batman Returns came out a lot of those people didn't go see it. So how much of the regular GA have become fans of the franchise and are eagerly looking forward to the next installment, I don't know.

That seems like your bias is coloring your memory or you knew an abnormally large number of people who weren't impressed with TDK. If the GA thought it was only "ok" it would not have become the second most successful film of all time upon its release and the first film in the US to break $500 million since Titanic 11 years prior to its release. It would not have become the second highest reviewed film of the year and it wouldn't have been the first superhero film to win a non-technical Oscar (Ledger, which is even more impressive when you consider it was posthumous and the Academy does that about once every 40 years) and its exclusion from the BP category caused the Academy producers to force there being ten nominations for BP afterwards.

I'm not saying it was the best movie ever or even of that year, but it was very well received and its huge box office, critical and even award success points to it being highly regarded by more than by just Bat-fanboys and Nolanites.


Anyway, you continue to ignore that sequels to popular movies always open larger than the predecessor--SM3 over SM2, X3 over X2, Matrix Reloaded over Matrix, POTC 2-4 over POTC1, TF2 over TF1--TDKR is almost guaranteed to make at least $160 million its opening weekend in the US. You really don't think it can't cross $800 million WW or $300 million domestic?

This is just grasping at straws.

[jmc]

So were Memento, Insomnia, and The Prestige. None of those did even close to TDK or Inception numbers, though. What TDK and Inception had going for them were things with mass appeal: Joker, in the former; and Leo DiCaprio and spectacular buzzworthy visuals, in the latter. I don't see anything in TDKR generating that same kind of buzz.





1. A superhero film does not make 1 billion dollars on the back of one character alone. 2. An original film doesn't make over $800 million dollars on the back of one actor alone. 3. Momento, Insomnia and Prestige weren't blockbusters but guess what? They were all still profitable. For christ sake use some common sense man.

[DACrowe]

Yes, I'm absolutely sure Bruce would sympathize with the 99%ers, or at least feel a little guilty about his riches. That doesn't make bringing up the subject in TDKR any less of a political hot potato, particularly in America. If Nolan's story is pro-OWS, the right-wingers in America will piss and moan and boycott; if it's anti, the left-wingers will. Either way, TDKR may ultimately prove to be just one more wedge in the red-state/blue-state civil war brewing in the US of A. (In an election year, too....fancy that. :))

Nolan subtly explored the War on Terror and post-9/11 America in TDK without alienating anyone. If anything many sides used it to vindicate their iews (WSJ ran a column about how it was a pro-Bush movie and I saw articles about it being anti-torture and anti-wiretapping). I don't think TDK took a side, it just used it as a backdrop and examined the sociological aspects of it in a more abstract sense. I imagine TDKR to study the social and cultural angst after the 2008 crash with as much deft. I doubt it's going to cause people to either want to join Bane in overthrowing/killing rich people or think that all rich people are selfless superheroes. I doubt it's the political lightning rod you are suggesting.

So were Memento, Insomnia, and The Prestige. None of those did even close to TDK or Inception numbers, though. What TDK and Inception had going for them were things with mass appeal: Joker, in the former; and Leo DiCaprio and spectacular buzzworthy visuals, in the latter. I don't see anything in TDKR generating that same kind of buzz.

You ignored my last post that showed saying Inception's success was based on Leo DiCaprio's star power to be bollocks. Inception is Leo's most successful and mainstream film since Titanic. You didn't see The Aviator, Blood Diamond, J. Edgar, Shutter Island, Revolutionary Road, etc. appealing to the mainstream or making $800 million WW. It was a hit because Nolan became a household name after TDK and the movie looked, as you said, visually spectacular. TDKR does as well.

[El Payaso]

edit

[JB-the-Hunter]

My opinion on why The Avengers has a huge chance to be the most successful of 2012:

1. Shared universe. 4 different franchises teaming up in one... NEVER been done before

2. The cast. Robert Downey Jr: nuff said; Chris Hemsworth: one of the fastest rising stars in a while; Samuel L. Jackson the largest grossing actor of all time. As well as Hiddles and his fangirls, Evans and his humility, Scarlett and her assets.

3. Iconic characters. The Avengers potentially has 7 characters that could carry their own movie. TDKR has 1. The Hobbit has 1 or 2.

4. Disney is distributing and marketing the movie. Disney, the studio that owns 4 of the ten billion dollar movies in existence.

5. 3D. Everybody knows that when you pile 3D on top of super, berserker, monster action... you make money.

6. Joss Whedon. Joss Whedon is writing AND directing this movie. He brings along his fans who would otherwise not see it.


Edit: When it's all said and done. I expect The Avengers to sit nicely behind Toy Story 3 and ahead of Pirates 4, TDKR to finish below TDK and above Deathly Hallows Pt. 1, and The Hobbit to finish above TDK and below Alice, being only part one and all, There and Back Again will do better though.
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

[Donut]

1. Shared universe. 4 different franchises teaming up in one... NEVER been done before

Fast Five sort of beat The Avengers to being the first one

[JB-the-Hunter]

Fast Five sort of beat The Avengers to being the first one

Fast Five is still one franchise though. It may have different characters and stories but they're all still 'Fast and Furious' and they're all still about cars going fast.

[gugumugats]

I always thought of Avengers as being one franchise.

[gugumugats]

Not that i hate/like 3D, but is this movie supposed to get a 3D conversion?

I saw both Thor and Cap in 3D, and it definitely hurts more than it helps. It didn't seem to help much with Cap, but 3D was amazing when they were showing off Asgard in Thor.

Either way, I do not think I will be watching Avengers in 3D. However, if it is going to be digitally projected on IMAX, I am definitely there.

[JB-the-Hunter]

I always thought of Avengers as being one franchise.
So do I, but to the general audience, these are four different franchises. Nobody goes around saying the first Avengers Prequel was better than the fourth Avengers Prequel, they say the first Iron Man was better than the first Thor (Just an example, not that Iron Man is better than Thor... although it is a little better IMO). The Fast franchise, however, is obviously one franchise.

[captainrogers]

Fast Five sort of beat The Avengers to being the first one

View Askew-niverse?

[jmc]

Fast Five is still one franchise though. It may have different characters and stories but they're all still 'Fast and Furious' and they're all still about cars going fast.

It's a valid argument actually, one that I never actually thought of. You could easily say the lead up Avengers films are about some guy in a costume fighting a super villain.

[Son of Coul]

I'm tired of people refuting the shared universe thing as being a valid reason for people getting psyched for this movie. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean the idea of seeing all these characters in the same movie isn't gonna pump people up.

"This Marvel **** is awesome! They've never done a shared universe movie like this before, it's just like the comics!"

"Actually Kevin Smith and Universal Horror movies did it before. Fast Five sort of, too."

"Oh well then screw it. Let's not even go."

[Weadazoid]

And in Fast Five face it the main character Paul Walker the hero so to speak..... never changed'


the Five.... changed the game cause it brought in all of his 'partners' in crime so to speak.....


It's not the same...... and in no way was there a slowly developing underlieing storyline..... there is 0 tie in From 1 to 2 to 3.... 3 actually had no Paul Walker.... 3 was the only one that had a tie in so to speak as Dom appears at the end..... and yet no tie in was brought into Fast 4


Now.... face it the lead up to five would have been MUCH bigger had it started with Walker and Dom....

Went to Tyrese and Luda in Florida - Walker cameo at the end

Went to Tokyo Drift and went with the Dom cameo at the end.

and if all of those movies had success and built up the characters there in

then blew the doors off with part 4... that would have been 'close to the same'


They dragged it out.............. had 1 story that may forever be ignored and brought in the Rock...



If anything a better example of a large team up would be the expendables


but none of those charaters had a huge build up...


Give us John Rambo, and Camando teaming up with Yippee Kia ya ye Cowboy Die hard in 1994.... and I can garauntee you have an animal at the box office even with the R rateing...


This is the first time they are doing this in their PRIME....

[jmc]

I'm tired of people refuting the shared universe thing as being a valid reason for people getting psyched for this movie. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean the idea of seeing all these characters in the same movie isn't gonna pump people up.

"This Marvel **** is awesome! They've never done a shared universe movie like this before, it's just like the comics!"

"Actually Kevin Smith and Universal Horror movies did it before. Fast Five sort of, too."

"Oh well then screw it. Let's not even go."

Look, there will be a novelty aspect to it, but I do think people are over estimating how appealing the team up thing is. There's going to be a lot of cross pollination with this film. Ultimately it will come down to how good the film is.

[JB-the-Hunter]

but I do agree people are over estimating how appealing the team up thing is. There's going to be a lot of cross pollination with this film.
Is that what caused it to break the itunes download record? :huh:
There's not gonna be as much cross pollination as skeptics think IMO

[jmc]

Is that what caused it to break the itunes download record? :huh:
There's not gonna be as much cross pollination as skeptics think IMO

Come on lets be serious, breaking some itunes record doesn't mean all that much, especially when people download such things multiple times. The thing that baffles me is that you don't think that cross pollination won't be a factor, it's not like each lead up film had a different audience.

[Quasimod0]

Thats not quite true. Not everyone likes all of the heroes. Best thing about avengers is there's something for everyone

[DACrowe]

As long as you want everything to be light-hearted, funny and cheeky just like [insert MCU film]. :rimshot:

I could not resist.

[DACrowe]

BTW I want to see TA, I was just having some fun.

[Cth]

I'm tired of people refuting the shared universe thing as being a valid reason for people getting psyched for this movie. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean the idea of seeing all these characters in the same movie isn't gonna pump people up.

"This Marvel **** is awesome! They've never done a shared universe movie like this before, it's just like the comics!"

"Actually Kevin Smith and Universal Horror movies did it before. Fast Five sort of, too."

"Oh well then screw it. Let's not even go."

You could say it's the first time summer tentpole film franchises were meshed together.

Since summer tentpole films are already popular/built in audiences.

Now if we could just get a GI Joe/Transformers film going ;)

[Quasimod0]

Well if you want everything to be drab and depressing, just ( insert any nolan bat-film here). Lord have mercy

[Chewy]

Well if you want everything to be drab and depressing, just ( insert any nolan bat-film here). Lord have mercy
Really. They're 1a and 1b for me in terms of anticipation but people act like dark and preachy is an inherently better approach than light and fun when it comes to film. Different strokes for different folks, different foods for different moods.

[hatebox]

Whether Avengers will be huge or not, I think certain people are greatly overestimating how much the GA really give a damn about the team-up aspect of the film. That argument would only hold water if all or even most of the members each had $300m+ films. It sure as hell shouldn't be the number 1 reason people cite when arguing why the film will be a box office mammoth.

[jmc]

Thing is judging by the box office of all the Marvel films I just don't see where all these extras bums on seats are going to come from, there really isn't anything to indicate that Avengers is going to do anything much more than IM like numbers. Adding the 3D inflation and novelty factor and at best you're probably looking at $750m tops, and that's maybe if it's universally acclaimed. I hear talk of 1B dollars and I think 'what the hell are these people smoking?', TDK barely got to 1B and Batman is the biggest comic character on the planet, and to be perfectly honest, it was kind of a fluke-ish perfect storm that allowed it to reach that milestone.

[Shadowlord X]

That seems like your bias is coloring your memory or you knew an abnormally large number of people who weren't impressed with TDK. If the GA thought it was only "ok" it would not have become the second most successful film of all time upon its release and the first film in the US to break $500 million since Titanic 11 years prior to its release. It would not have become the second highest reviewed film of the year and it wouldn't have been the first superhero film to win a non-technical Oscar (Ledger, which is even more impressive when you consider it was posthumous and the Academy does that about once every 40 years) and its exclusion from the BP category caused the Academy producers to force there being ten nominations for BP afterwards.

I'm not saying it was the best movie ever or even of that year, but it was very well received and its huge box office, critical and even award success points to it being highly regarded by more than by just Bat-fanboys and Nolanites.


Anyway, you continue to ignore that sequels to popular movies always open larger than the predecessor--SM3 over SM2, X3 over X2, Matrix Reloaded over Matrix, POTC 2-4 over POTC1, TF2 over TF1--TDKR is almost guaranteed to make at least $160 million its opening weekend in the US. You really don't think it can't cross $800 million WW or $300 million domestic?

This is just grasping at straws.


Where in my assessment did I say that tdkr will not cross $800 million WW or $300 million domestic?????

Contrary to what you might think I actually think tdkr will most likely gross more than THE AVENGERS. Like you said it's a sequel and sequelmania rules the current BO.

I'm just raising points that question whether it will gross more than tdk.

[Shadowlord X]

Thing is judging by the box office of all the Marvel films I just don't see where all these extras bums on seats are going to come from, there really isn't anything to indicate that Avengers is going to do anything much more than IM like numbers. Adding the 3D inflation and novelty factor and at best you're probably looking at $750m tops, and that's maybe if it's universally acclaimed. I hear talk of 1B dollars and I think 'what the hell are these people smoking?', TDK barely got to 1B and Batman is the biggest comic character on the planet, and to be perfectly honest, it was kind of a fluke-ish perfect storm that allowed it to reach that milestone.


What's amazing is it that BB to tdk made a tremendous jump, but then people argue that no other movie could do the same.

Honestly I think THE AVENGERS will make between $800-900 million WW. Crossing the $1 billion mark is unlikely in a non-sequel. How well it actually does will depend heavily on the quality of the movie. At this point the awareness and hype are very high. The MMA appeal is also high because of RDJ (but not as high as the tdk franchise because it still is a mega-superhero movie) and it's real world invasion/disaster movie.

However it needs a good marketing push from Disney to get the awareness and hype to astronomical levels. A great 2nd trailer with mindblowing VFX could go a long way to doing that.

And it does need a great quality modifier. People (regular GA, not just fans) need to walk out not disappointed.

[JB-the-Hunter]

Thing is judging by the box office of all the Marvel films I just don't see where all these extras bums on seats are going to come from, there really isn't anything to indicate that Avengers is going to do anything much more than IM like numbers. Adding the 3D inflation and novelty factor and at best you're probably looking at $750m tops, and that's maybe if it's universally acclaimed. I hear talk of 1B dollars and I think 'what the hell are these people smoking?', TDK barely got to 1B and Batman is the biggest comic character on the planet, and to be perfectly honest, it was kind of a fluke-ish perfect storm that allowed it to reach that milestone.

Do you really believe what you are saying? I... I just don't understand this logic at all. :huh:

You're saying TDK reaching the billion mark was flukeish, but you're ignoring the fact that during that time it was the only film to do so. In this day and age about 3 movies cross the billion mark a year... films that don't even deserve it like Alice in Wonderland, Transformers 3 and Pirates 4. Thanks in large part to 3D which TDK didn't have. If TDK had come out this year instead of 2008 and in 3D, I'm pretty sure it would have easily made a billion.

I have a lot more points I could use but I really don't feel like it right now, so in short... I'm so confident that The Avengers will reach a billion that I can almost guarantee it. I know you disagree which is fine, I guess we're just both on opposite sides of confusion here. We'll see come May 4th 2012.

[hatebox]

Batman has never been a particularly big draw overseas, and neither have Marvel films. Pirates and Transformers have huge OS audience and Alice merely rode the frivolous 3D wave. Yes, 3D propped up Pirates and TFs, but the large audience was already there for those franchises.

On a related matter, Marvel shouldn't rely too heavily on RDJ in the marketing - the recent performance of Shelock 2 suggests he's not the money magnet he once was, although Due Date's performance probably told us that already.

[Splat]

Due Date was awful though, of course it tanked.

[Marvin]

The next Avengers trailer(along with the next spiderman one) will sell the effects along with the true through lines of the films. I look forward to seeing this debate take a more even keeled turn at that point.

[Weadazoid]

What's amazing is it that BB to tdk made a tremendous jump, but then people argue that no other movie could do the same.

Honestly I think THE AVENGERS will make between $800-900 million WW. Crossing the $1 billion mark is unlikely in a non-sequel. How well it actually does will depend heavily on the quality of the movie. At this point the awareness and hype are very high. The MMA appeal is also high because of RDJ (but not as high as the tdk franchise because it still is a mega-superhero movie) and it's real world invasion/disaster movie.

However it needs a good marketing push from Disney to get the awareness and hype to astronomical levels. A great 2nd trailer with mindblowing VFX could go a long way to doing that.

And it does need a great quality modifier. People (regular GA, not just fans) need to walk out not disappointed.




I have a feeling the effects will be pretty mind blowing



This concpet of them all going up against something compleatly other worldly may also put some buts in the seats.....

I know some people who went to THor just out of curiosity to see what that giant turtle like thing was going to be.... people that didn't even know really that Thor was a god... they just thought it looked 'differet'


now basicly say..... the ensemble class including the Hulk vs well.... a godzilla size Kraken size threat and you got something really very different

[CaptainStacy]

This concpet of them all going up against something compleatly other worldly may also put some buts in the seats.....


That plotline has been done to death though...nothing new.

[Shadowlord X]

On a related matter, Marvel shouldn't rely too heavily on RDJ in the marketing - the recent performance of Shelock 2 suggests he's not the money magnet he once was, although Due Date's performance probably told us that already.

I see where you're coming from but I think you're wrong.

RDJ as Tony Stark/IRON MAN is very different from him in other roles; the same way JD as Captain Jack Sparrow is different from him in other roles.

RDJ as Tony Stark IMO has HUGE MMA. He totally sells THE AVENGERS trailer which is lite on VFX and money shots.

[Shadowlord X]

I have a feeling the effects will be pretty mind blowing



This concpet of them all going up against something compleatly other worldly may also put some buts in the seats.....

I know some people who went to THor just out of curiosity to see what that giant turtle like thing was going to be.... people that didn't even know really that Thor was a god... they just thought it looked 'differet'


now basicly say..... the ensemble class including the Hulk vs well.... a godzilla size Kraken size threat and you got something really very different

Agree with everything you have said.

[Shadowlord X]

That plotline has been done to death though...nothing new.

To some extent yes.

But the core plotline of individual superheroes coming together and getting past their own issues to work together as a coherent team is completely new. Especially when you examine those issues:

- A narcissistic egotistical billionaire loner.
- A completely out of time straight edged soldier from WWII.
- A extra-dimensional overpowered being once worshipped as a god.
- A walking id powerhouse timebomb.

Even if the whole alien invasion is nothing new it didn't stop TF3 hitting BO gold.

[Adamantium Man]

That plotline has been done to death though...nothing new.

Every plotline you can think of has been done to death since classical literature. It's not the plotline that matters - it's the execution, the details, that will attract an audience. If that weren't the case, girl/boy meets boy/girl, confusion ensues, or even boy/gang/army fights boy/gang/army with (insert plot device) on the line wouldn't sell anymore, yet every plot basically boils down to one of those.

Which is an argument for and against every movie ever made, lol.

[Marvin]

To some extent yes.

But the core plotline of individual superheroes coming together and getting past their own issues to work together as a coherent team is completely new. Especially when you examine those issues:

- A narcissistic egotistical billionaire loner.
- A completely out of time straight edged soldier from WWII.
- A extra-dimensional overpowered being once worshipped as a god.
- A walking id powerhouse timebomb.

Even if the whole alien invasion is nothing new it didn't stop TF3 hitting BO gold.

lol you sound exactly like Marvel/Disney's ad campaign.

exactly like them.

[Rock Sexton]

I think the fact that they're putting all these guys together will bring out people who might've passed on the original tent poles. It'll evoke quite a bit of curiosity. If the CGI is good enough in this next trailer, it'll get even more people interested. You can most definitely groom new viewers out of this.

[marcvader]

I think the fact that they're putting all these guys together will bring out people who might've passed on the original tent poles. It'll evoke quite a bit of curiosity. If the CGI is good enough in this next trailer, it'll get even more people interested. You can most definitely groom new viewers out of this.
True

[CaptainStacy]

Every plotline you can think of has been done to death since classical literature. It's not the plotline that matters - it's the execution, the details, that will attract an audience. If that weren't the case, girl/boy meets boy/girl, confusion ensues, or even boy/gang/army fights boy/gang/army with (insert plot device) on the line wouldn't sell anymore, yet every plot basically boils down to one of those.


Agreed, however in regards to the target audiences and their interest level, there has been a GLUT of alien Invasion movies LATELY, as well as numerous tv shows. So what if the current group of bickering heroes opposing them wear nice colorful costumes? I'm not feeling any particular need to run out and see the same plot as last year's Battle: Los Angeles. Been there done that.

[marcvader]

I know I would as I've never seen it done with a group of superheroes.

[Weadazoid]

Agreed, however in regards to the target audiences and their interest level, there has been a GLUT of alien Invasion movies LATELY, as well as numerous tv shows. So what if the current group of bickering heroes opposing them wear nice colorful costumes? I'm not feeling any particular need to run out and see the same plot as last year's Battle: Los Angeles. Been there done that.




Sorry but I have to disagree.... First of all it was our army with inferior weapons vs the invasion....


The movie suddenly gets turned on it's ear if say Iron Man shows up and starts blasting away at the alien threat


Or Hulk breaks out of a building and jumps on a gunship and tears appart the Alien threat,,,,


and then at the end some giant Godzilla size things comes at LA and a groups of SUper Heros take it down


sorry.... but that... that we just have not ever seen plot similarity or not

[Adamantium Man]

Agreed, however in regards to the target audiences and their interest level, there has been a GLUT of alien Invasion movies LATELY, as well as numerous tv shows. So what if the current group of bickering heroes opposing them wear nice colorful costumes? I'm not feeling any particular need to run out and see the same plot as last year's Battle: Los Angeles. Been there done that.

Ah, but the fun thing will be how the Avengers actually come together as a team *prior* to defeating the aliens. After that, it'll be the home run. More or less.

Also, what the two posts above mine said. It's never been done quite like this before.

[DACrowe]

Do you really believe what you are saying? I... I just don't understand this logic at all. :huh:

You're saying TDK reaching the billion mark was flukeish, but you're ignoring the fact that during that time it was the only film to do so. In this day and age about 3 movies cross the billion mark a year... films that don't even deserve it like Alice in Wonderland, Transformers 3 and Pirates 4. Thanks in large part to 3D which TDK didn't have. If TDK had come out this year instead of 2008 and in 3D, I'm pretty sure it would have easily made a billion.

I have a lot more points I could use but I really don't feel like it right now, so in short... I'm so confident that The Avengers will reach a billion that I can almost guarantee it. I know you disagree which is fine, I guess we're just both on opposite sides of confusion here. We'll see come May 4th 2012.

Well you'll have to wait a little longer than the 4th. But as you said Transformers and Pirates already had the built in audiences that 3D pushed them over-the-top overseas....No Marvel film has made more than $600+ million WW and that was IM2. The closest was IM1 with $530-540 million (I can't remember the final total). You think the novelty factor of The AVengers being a team up and 3D can make up $400-$500 million?!

That's wishful thinking. I think TA will make around $700-$750 million WW--assuming that it's a good movie and people respond to it well so it has some legs. If TDKR makes under $800 million WW, I think WB would be disappointed. That's the difference.

[Shadowlord X]

Agreed, however in regards to the target audiences and their interest level, there has been a GLUT of alien Invasion movies LATELY, as well as numerous tv shows. So what if the current group of bickering heroes opposing them wear nice colorful costumes? I'm not feeling any particular need to run out and see the same plot as last year's Battle: Los Angeles. Been there done that.


And you're entitled to feel that way, and I respect you're opinion.

However I'm curious about something. If you're not motivated to go see a movie whose plot does not interest you, why are you motivated to come to a movie website forum dedicated to that movie and comment about it???

That always baffles me.

I'm have absolute zero interest in tdkr but I don't go to the Batman boards to announce my lack of interest.

[Shadowlord X]

Well you'll have to wait a little longer than the 4th. But as you said Transformers and Pirates already had the built in audiences that 3D pushed them over-the-top overseas....No Marvel film has made more than $600+ million WW and that was IM2. The closest was IM1 with $530-540 million (I can't remember the final total). You think the novelty factor of The AVengers being a team up and 3D can make up $400-$500 million?!

That's wishful thinking. I think TA will make around $700-$750 million WW--assuming that it's a good movie and people respond to it well so it has some legs. If TDKR makes under $800 million WW, I think WB would be disappointed. That's the difference.


Umm, IRON MAN 2 made over $600 million WW.

But BB only made $372 million WW yet tdk jumped up to $1 billion; where did the extra $630 million come from???

[JB-the-Hunter]

Well you'll have to wait a little longer than the 4th. But as you said Transformers and Pirates already had the built in audiences that 3D pushed them over-the-top overseas....No Marvel film has made more than $600+ million WW and that was IM2. The closest was IM1 with $530-540 million (I can't remember the final total). You think the novelty factor of The AVengers being a team up and 3D can make up $400-$500 million?!

The Avengers and Marvel have a much older built in audience than those two. Also the first Pirates made 6mil worldwide and the second made a billion. Built in audience had nothing to do with that. Also, no, the novelty alone isn't going to make up the 400mil. You guys are not considering all of the variables. You can't base how much this is going to make based on any of the previous movies, this is a totally different animal. As I mentioned before, novelty, event status, 3D, cast, characters (Mostly Tony), mindblowing action, great story, Disney and Whedon are MORE than enough to grab that extra 400mil, assuming everything comes together this way.

That's wishful thinking. I think TA will make around $700-$750 million WW--assuming that it's a good movie and people respond to it well so it has some legs. If TDKR makes under $800 million WW, I think WB would be disappointed. That's the difference.
I don't think it's wishful thinking at all. Iron Man 2 was able to make 600mil WW without being anything special, if The Avengers is anything like the cast and crew is selling it to be, this is going to be twice as big as Iron Man 2 so I don't see how that only gets it 100mil more.


Umm, IRON MAN 2 made over $600 million WW.

But BB only made $372 million WW yet tdk jumped up to $1 billion; where did the extra $630 million come from???

Pirates 1 made around the same as Iron Man 2 WW $600 million and leaped to 1 billion in Pirates 2

[Quasimod0]

Really. They're 1a and 1b for me in terms of anticipation but people act like dark and preachy is an inherently better approach than light and fun when it comes to film. Different strokes for different folks, different foods for different moods.

I get enough depression and darkness in the real world. I go to movies to be happy