Contest Of Marvels (Season 3) - Thread 4

[Midnight Ice]

Nightcrawler VS Harest-Closing Argument

Harvest may have the advantage of the location being populated, but its really not that much of an advantage. there is nothing any civilian can do to Nightcrawler if Harvest controls them. As soon as anybody approaches Nightcrawler he will just teleport somewhere else. There is nothing anybody can do to him if he teleports away, especially if he teleports to the side of a building somewhere. Nightcrawler is nearly indectectable in shadows, which there will be plenty of at night and on the side of buildings and alley ways and such.

I was trying to figure out a way to counter Harvest's shape changing abilities, and I may have come up with an equal advantage for Nightcrawler. On many occasions Nightcrawler has used an image inducer to change his appearence so that he looked normal. There is no reason to think Nightcrawler wouldn't bring one of these along. With Nightcrawler's looks changed, the public and cops would not know who to be looking for, making the argument about sicking civilians and cops on Nightcrawler pointless.

With his teleportation, agility, fighting skills, and perhaps even an image inducer, Nightcrawler should have this match in the bag.

Winner-Nightcrawler

[Ahura Mazda]

Davos (Steel Phoenix) Vs Tusk Rebuttal

Whoop... almost missed this one.
Nope... this is from Immortal Iron Fist issue 6 with the Crane Mother's chi (the girl swans), and nowhere in this issue did he absorb any of Iron Fist's chi. This has to be done by touching his little serpant chest tatoo to Iron Fist's Dragon chest tatoo. This was never done and this power was done completely with Davos' own chi might.

That is what is assumed but not necessarily the case as often seen when new writers come into play plus who is Mother Crane and maybe he will not have access to her chi in this future timeline.



He is only strengthend when he steels Iron Fist's chi. That did not happen in any of these appearances (as they are all from the same issue, and it never happened in that issue). Everything shown is Davos' own might using Crane Mother's chi (by use of the Swan Ladies seen in the image where he teleports, and no, they don't need to be present for him to use his powers).

So thus, it shows he can take Iron Fist by his own might. He took on Luke Cage there. He massively broke that stone/metal (whatever it was) ground with one punch. I'm pretty sure that shows he can break Tusk's hide.... and again, none of this is with Iron Fist's chi.... it's his own.

Did he beat Luke Cage? Because facing off against a powerful opponent is not much of an argument given Tusk has faced Nate Grey who would put all of the cohorts of Iron Fist down with just a thought.

Again, you also assume where as Tusk is superhuman and super strong. And also, that was not his own chi per your own argument but Mother Crane's.



He's pretty much lost every fight he's been in. It's hard to assume he's too much for a top notch life-long trained fighter when he's not even been shown beating a normal human level fighter. And as I've shown, Davos is far from just a baseline fighter. Unfortunately, Tusk is just a bad draw.

He has only lost those fights where he faced superiour forces with powers beyond his own. This is clearly not the case here.

Also lets note that if davos starts breaking pavements and building with his fists, if he is able, which I find doubtful he will attract the police.

Tusk can just revert back to his worm form and hide in such a scenario.

Winner by sheer ugliness - Tusk

[JewishHobbit]

Davos (Steel Phoenix) Vs Tusk Rebuttal

That is what is assumed but not necessarily the case as often seen when new writers come into play plus who is Mother Crane and maybe he will not have access to her chi in this future timeline.

Danny Rand had to touch the heart of the dragon to gain the power of the Iron Fist and this is how every Iron Fist had gained their abilities since the beginning. Mother Crane offers powers simply by sacreficing women who become Swans. These had done so and Davos had attained the chi. He then went on to fight the 2 Iron Fists and Heroes For Hire in issue 6 to show that he didn't need Iron Fist's power. He then left with several of the Swan Women so that he can fight in the Tournament of the Seven Heavenly Cities as the Crane Mother's champion. Here he retained the chi and fought, which was also shown in the scans I provided. He doesn't seem to have to keep draining women and even when he lost the tournament, he retained the chi in the final part of that series to help fight against Hydra.

As for being in the future, chi isn't based on what year it is, just on the person who possess it. I see no signs that it wouldn't work and there's no reason to belittle a character's power until some is shown.

Did he beat Luke Cage? Because facing off against a powerful opponent is not much of an argument given Tusk has faced Nate Grey who would put all of the cohorts of Iron Fist down with just a thought.

Never saw it because Danny interfered I believe. And you play it up like Tusk went toe-to-toe with Nate before losing but I'm pretty sure he got whiped hard, along with the rest of his crew, like a red headed step child. It's kinda like saying....

"Yeah? So Davos put up a good fight against Luke Cage? Well Tusk was trampled and embaressed by Nate Grey like he was nothing but a cockroach... beat that!"

Which doesn't exactly make Tusk sound all that great. Now if you would have stated something like that against someone loser to Tusk's power level it would have been more impressive, but I"m pretty sure they'd say the same thing.

"Yeah? So Davos put up a good fight against Luke Cage? Well Tusk was trampled and embaressed by Wolverine/Cyclops/Cable/Beast/etc. like he was nothing but a cockroach... beat that!"

I'd suggest finding a fight he actually won to show if he can even beat anyone or is just a brute to take up an opponant's time before the bigger threat shows up later. Honestly, I'm not sure one can be found. And even if you do, I guarentee it's only because the rest of the team was there and I highly doubt he deliered the final blow to end it. That was usually Gauntlet or Barraige.

Again, you also assume where as Tusk is superhuman and super strong. And also, that was not his own chi per your own argument but Mother Crane's.

Nonetheless, the power is there for him to use. It's like saying Tusk's strength and durability is in question because it wasn't originally his but was given to him through the Inhumans' mist, so it isn't actually his but the crystals. He still has the power and he can still use it. Same with Davos.


He has only lost those fights where he faced superiour forces with powers beyond his own. This is clearly not the case here.

He's lost every fight. How can you assume Davos isn't a superior force here as well? We have no idea who he can beat.

Also lets note that if davos starts breaking pavements and building with his fists, if he is able, which I find doubtful he will attract the police.

He wont' be breaking pavement, he'll be breaking Tusk's face. Then it won't matter if the police come, the match will be over.

Winner - Davos

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal of a rebuttal and final words

Danny Rand had to touch the heart of the dragon to gain the power of the Iron Fist and this is how every Iron Fist had gained their abilities since the beginning. Mother Crane offers powers simply by sacreficing women who become Swans. These had done so and Davos had attained the chi. He then went on to fight the 2 Iron Fists and Heroes For Hire in issue 6 to show that he didn't need Iron Fist's power. He then left with several of the Swan Women so that he can fight in the Tournament of the Seven Heavenly Cities as the Crane Mother's champion. Here he retained the chi and fought, which was also shown in the scans I provided. He doesn't seem to have to keep draining women and even when he lost the tournament, he retained the chi in the final part of that series to help fight against Hydra.

I am not disputing your word just saying he could have obtainned the Chi off panel somehow.

As for being in the future, chi isn't based on what year it is, just on the person who possess it. I see no signs that it wouldn't work and there's no reason to belittle a character's power until some is shown.

I thought you stated it was Mother Crane's and just saying he would not have access to her Chi.



Never saw it because Danny interfered I believe. And you play it up like Tusk went toe-to-toe with Nate before losing but I'm pretty sure he got whiped hard, along with the rest of his crew, like a red headed step child. It's kinda like saying....

"Yeah? So Davos put up a good fight against Luke Cage? Well Tusk was trampled and embaressed by Nate Grey like he was nothing but a cockroach... beat that!"

Which doesn't exactly make Tusk sound all that great. Now if you would have stated something like that against someone loser to Tusk's power level it would have been more impressive, but I"m pretty sure they'd say the same thing.

"Yeah? So Davos put up a good fight against Luke Cage? Well Tusk was trampled and embaressed by Wolverine/Cyclops/Cable/Beast/etc. like he was nothing but a cockroach... beat that!"

It was not quite that bad and in any case all of his opponents I would like to think have been superiour to Davos and per your own statement he therefore never even fought Luke Cage so he was not a valid example.



I'd suggest finding a fight he actually won to show if he can even beat anyone or is just a brute to take up an opponant's time before the bigger threat shows up later. Honestly, I'm not sure one can be found. And even if you do, I guarentee it's only because the rest of the team was there and I highly doubt he deliered the final blow to end it. That was usually Gauntlet or Barraige.

I obviously do not have examples of victories unless we can include Clone Wars (;)) because he was a minor character but just because I do not know of them does not mean they are not somewhere.

Nonetheless, the power is there for him to use. It's like saying Tusk's strength and durability is in question because it wasn't originally his but was given to him through the Inhumans' mist, so it isn't actually his but the crystals. He still has the power and he can still use it. Same with Davos.

I do not think it is quite the same because every bio I have read has him as a peak human with a few examples of Chi which people were uncertain he would retain. This is not the same thing for Tusk where his superhumanness is clearly documented.

He's lost every fight. How can you assume Davos isn't a superior force here as well? We have no idea who he can beat.

Let me help............Davos



He wont' be breaking pavement, he'll be breaking Tusk's face. Then it won't matter if the police come, the match will be over.

How can you be sure of that. It is a common attack from him and and damage to the properties or people around would attract the authorities and Tusk cuold jst revert to a worm and slither away into a sewer to fight another day.

Winner - Tusk

[JewishHobbit]

Rebuttal of a rebuttal and final words
I thought you stated it was Mother Crane's and just saying he would not have access to her Chi.

I mentioned it being Mother Crane's because she's the one who offers the swan women. I suppose the Chi really belongs to them and they sacrefice themselves to grant it to Davos. I suppose that'd be a better explanation. If a better one was given I don't recall it.


It was not quite that bad and in any case all of his opponents I would like to think have been superiour to Davos and per your own statement he therefore never even fought Luke Cage so he was not a valid example.

He did fight Luke Cage, I even posted the kick in the crotch. I just don't know how it ended, but being that Davos went on to fight Iron Fist, It shows that he at least went toe to toe with Luke without losing, something Tusk has yet to do.

I obviously do not have examples of victories unless we can include Clone Wars (;)) because he was a minor character but just because I do not know of them does not mean they are not somewhere.

I've read every X-Book since the early 80's and I don't recall him ever winning a fight. The closest thing would have been when a weakened Apocalypse, already near death due to Stryfe's attack, was confronted by the entire grouping of Dark Riders, Tusk included. It was then assumed off panel that he was defeated. That is literally the only "win" I can even think of. Every other fight he was cannon fodder. Sucks to be a lacky.

I do not think it is quite the same because every bio I have read has him as a peak human with a few examples of Chi which people were uncertain he would retain. This is not the same thing for Tusk where his superhumanness is clearly documented.

I'm not doubting Tusk's abilities, I'm doubting his ability to hold up to the power Davos had while he was Steel Phoenix. He's strong, but Thing or Hulk he is not.

How can you be sure of that. It is a common attack from him and and damage to the properties or people around would attract the authorities and Tusk cuold jst revert to a worm and slither away into a sewer to fight another day.

It was mentioned that his original form may have been more worm-like but I don't think I've ever seen him revert to it. Chances are if the police come, they're both going to get attacked.

Well, I have to give the girls a bath and then head to the comic shop and then to work. So I'm calling my part on this debate quits. I think we're really starting to go in circles anyhow so it's probably for the best. It's been a nice debate as always Ahura. Now die in the firely flames of defeat!

Winner - Davos (Steel Phoenix)

[Phaedrus45]

Debates Are Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Agatha Harkness - (There are some questions I had in the opening debate; I was trying to remember what we even said about using spells before the match begins. Either way, Wonder Man is a very good guy, and with this location, Agatha would have an advantage of fighting without even being seen.)

*Harvest

*Tana Nile - (This was my character last year, and she went pretty far. Firestar simply wouldn't stand a chance against her.)

*Davos - (This match confused me like no other. I really have no clue as to how Davos' powers work...but, I'll just say this to Ahura...it doesn't really matter whether you win or lose, because Tana Nile will be a much harder opponent for Davos than Tusk. And, I almost gave you my vote, too.)

[Midnight Ice]

Agatha Harkness

Nightcrawler

Tana Nile

Davos-This one was an awesome debate by both! In the end I think Davos would beat Tusk.....Plus, all you had to do in "Clone Wars" to beat Tusk was pick Magneto as your character, and hover in the top corner of the screen. Shoot magnetic blasts his way and Tusk couldn't hurt you:cwink:.

[random_havoc]

Davos

Tana Nile (firestar would've won if she had telepathic resistance but the debating convinced me otherwise)

Nightcrawler

Harkness (I hate magic characters. hate hate hate)

[Franklin Richards]

Agatha Harkness - Abracadabra!

Nightcrawler - BAMF

Firestar - Nuke

Devos - ???


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[POWdER-man]

Tana Nile
Davos (This was a confusing debate but no matter whoever wins, loses)
Agatha (Everything is up in the air with magic users)

So both can change their appearance....so who will reveal themselves first...with more eyes than two...
Harvest

[wiegeabo]

Agatha Harkness - That's magic for you, *****es. :D

Harvest-Phalanx - I think he's just going to outlast Kurt who'll wear himself out teleporting and fighting/avoiding Harvest and his drones.

Tana Nile - In a populated area, Firestar can't risk going all out. Tana might even be able to take over her mind.

Davos-Steel Phoenix - Tough match. But anyone that can create a new hand out of sheer will and put it all into an attack is one BAMF!

[Vanguard07]

Davos
Wonderman (I dont buy the "It's magic" as that strong an argument)
Harvest
Tana Nile

[Ahura Mazda]

Edit : Double Post

[Ahura Mazda]

Agatha Harkness - Nothing was said in the debates to convince me Wonder man would find her before she spells him but I have doubts she could just turn him into a cat from a church somewhere.

Harvest-Phalanx - In a populated area, I really think he has an enormous advantage

Tana Nile

Davos-Steel Phoenix - As much as I would like to vote for my own I do not think he would win. I just wonder how I got him in the draw.

[POWdER-man]

Probably the same manner as I got Dusk. She was close to the bottom of my list.

But to be fair I think she was last pick.

[JewishHobbit]

Davos
Nightcrawler - (I'm on the fence on this one, but since the gen X kids found a way to beat him twice and many Phalanx have been shown to go down to a crafty X-Man (not to Mention Nightcrawler's done it himself), I think Nightcrawler has the edge. I hate that too, as I'm a big Phalanx Nerd, as shown by two of my own characters this week.)
Tana Nile
Agatha - (though I hate magic users!!! Down with Agatha in round 2!!!)

[Harlekin]

Wonder Man - Magic's not a catch all.
Harvest (Phalanx) - Maybe with an other location, this would be more in Nightcrawler's favour.
Tana Nile - Firestar's too limited in this environment.
Davos (Steel Phoenix) - He's pretty damn awesome.

[WitchKing]

Agatha
Nightcrawler
Tana Nile
Davos

[CoMarvels]

Final Results

Agatha Harkness defeats Wonder Man 9-2

Harvest (Phalanx) defeats Nightcrawler 6-5

Tana Nile defeats Firestar 10-1

Davos (Steel Phoenix) defeats Tusk 11-0

[Phaedrus45]

Not that it matters, but Agatha beat Wonder Man 9-2.

[wiegeabo]

I hate having to lose classic characters like Kurt in the first round, but oh well.

[CoMarvels]

Not that it matters, but Agatha beat Wonder Man 9-2.

You are correct.

[CoMarvels]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Beta Ray Bill (HELLSTROMER) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Ray_Bill)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/betaray.jpg

vs.

Skaar (WITCHKING) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skaar)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/skaar.jpg

Match 2:

Polaris (MIDNIGHTICE) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/polaris-1.jpg

vs.

Sasquatch (HELLSTROMER) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasquatch_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/sasquatch-1.jpg

[CoMarvels]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Living Lightning (WITCHKING) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Lightning)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/living.jpg

vs.

Iron Clad (FRANKLINRICHARDS) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironclad_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/ironclad-1.jpg

Match 2:

Deaths Head II (PHAEDRUS45) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death's_Head)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/dh2.jpg

vs.

Blastaar (FRANKLINRICHARDS) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blastaar)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/blastaar-1.jpg

[CoMarvels]

Location: Wakanda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakanda_(Marvel))

Debating May Begin!!!

[JewishHobbit]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/polaris-1.jpg


"Heh... Perkys."







*editor's note: To see what's happening with this strange red voice, check out Contest of Marvels thread 2 for the full details - HebrewHalfling.

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/203608-35079-sasquatch_super.jpg
Sasquatch VS. Polaris

This is a pretty one-sided match, but Sasquatch might have a chance. In recent issues of Omega Flight and Marvel Comics Present Department H has been taken over by SHIELD and therefore Sasquatch will have no problem getting the information he needs with his clearance and his knowledge of the X-Men and Magneto. Sasquatch's biggest advantage is his level of intelligence and his strength. This is a guy that fought Hulk for fun and to test his strength limits with a mind that matches Bruce Banner. Basically Hulk with brains but with a baseline strength.

Any kind of metal form that Polaris throws at Sasquatch will be torn apart by his strength or he'll figure out a way to use them to his advantage to take her out of the air. When that happens it will be a matter of him unleashing Tanraq and tearing her apart.

Winner=Sasquatch

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/214753-130846-beta-ray-bill.jpg
Beta Ray Bill VS. Skaar

This is a pretty awesome match, but I think Beta Ray Bill has the advantage in experience and ability.

Skaar is like a slightly weaker version of his father with some extra abilities from his mother. Beta Ray Bill is basically Thor with a stronger robotic/alien body and mind. BRB has the hammer Stormbreaker which is just like Mjolnir granting him all the same abilities including flight. Flight is the big winner here in addition to BRB's long range abilities. Basically even though Skaar's stronger he isn't strong enough to survive lightening strikes and repeated hammer strikes from someone who's possibly near his strength level, afterall he did fight down Galactus' herald.

WINNER= Beta Ray Bill

[Midnight Ice]

Polaris VS Sasquatch

The location here couldn't favor Polaris more! Wakanda has tons of Vibranium. Guess what, that is a type of METAL. Polaris controls metal. Put two and two together and what do you get?

"Four!"

Wade, get out of here, you are not in this debate.

"Ok, but that Jewish Hobbit dude told me to come over her to check out Polaris."

Anyway, there are tons of vibranium and vibranium weapons to be controled. Polaris won't even have to get near Sasquatch to defeat him.

Winner: Polaris

[Franklin Richards]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Living Lightning (WITCHKING) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Lightning)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/living.jpg

vs.

Iron Clad (FRANKLINRICHARDS) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironclad_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/ironclad-1.jpg



Ironclad will have one hope of winning.




Water.



He will take as much abuse as his super dense body can take. He'll wait until he can get within arm's reach of LL. He'll lead him outside if possible. Anywhere a fountain might be. If no fountain can be found he'll use his superstrength to send a flood of water on LL


LL shorts out.



Ironclad Wins.



:thing: :thing: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

Match 2:

Deaths Head II (PHAEDRUS45) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death's_Head)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/dh2.jpg

vs.

Blastaar (FRANKLINRICHARDS) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blastaar)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/blastaar-1.jpg



Blastaar is the most endurant Villain in the 616.




This would be a fun fight to watch.



All Blastaar has to do is take a few blows and keep the pressure on. His bomb burst will most likely destroy the Wakandan Palace. It will prolly take Death's Head II with it. A few well timed shots from the sky will help too.



Blastaar blasts his way into the winner's circle.



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[WitchKing]

Skaar vs. Beta Ray Bill

Here is another Brawl, however; Skaar like his father the hulk is durable and has intense superhuman strength and gets stronger as he gets angrier. He is immune to fire and has regenerative abilities. He was able to stabbed in the face and recover from it. Even though Beta Ray Bill wont be an easy foe to overcome a savage like Skaar will be able to overcome whatever Bill throws at him and probable beat him to a bloody pulp.

Winner - Skaar

[Phaedrus45]

Opening Debate: Death's Head II vs. Blastaar

Death's Head II is just an awesome character, and a perfect match for the brute strength of Blastaar.

First, Death's Head II bio:

*He possesses superhuman sight, hearing and smell, and can communicate with other cyborgs and computers via radio wave.

*His speed, agility, endurance and strength (Class 100) are all superhuman.

*His right arm is composed of liquid metal molybdenum, able to shift configuration into a variety of forms, from hand to blade to high-yield plasma-fusion blaster. It's deadliest form is the Cranial Disruption Syphon, which allows him to download the mind of an opponent.

*He contains in excess of 106 personalities within his computerized brain, giving him access to a wealth of knowledge and experience, and allowing him to analyze and countermeasure enemy attacks (updating tactics, overriding force fields, etc.)

*In the Marvel Handbook, his Strength, Durability, Energy Projection, and Fighting Skills is quite mighty! In 6 out of 7, he reaches Strength, Durability, and Energy Projection. 7 out of 7 is his fighting skills, which is probably because of all the personalities he's accessed.

*His body is able to regenerate from penetrating wounds, amputation within seconds, and even having his body cut completely in half.

As for Blastaar, here is his Marvel Universe bio:

*Super strength; able to release explosive energy bursts from his finger-tips; by carefully releasing a steady stream of blast from his fingers, Blastaar can propel himself through the air in the manner of a rocket powered by a nuclear engine.

*Thick, resistant skin, and the ability to withstand immense amounts of pressure and temperature. Blast can go weeks without nourishment.


This is a great competition; but, I think Death's Head II just brings too much to the table, especially with being able to access Blastaar's memory and personality.

Winner = Death's Head II

[Phaedrus45]

Debates Are Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[Ahura Mazda]

First off, the debates or lack of them was not much help so I will go with my own thoughts:

Skaar - This is very close but from what I have read on the guy he is like the Hulk with a crueller streak plus he is a cunning fighter. Beta Ray Bill is Thor lite for me even though he did defeat him once and given fighting techniques I think Skaar could pull a win but to be honest if I was just to go on the statements above it would just be a coin toss.

Polaris - Just too much metal around

Iron Clad - Not much of a debate so I am taking my own guess

Death's Head - The opening statements convinced me

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Beta Ray Bill - (This is two odds on favorites in this contest going against each other; and, it's too bad that we didn't get much of a debate for it. In the end, I have to go with my own feelings, and much of Skaar's powers come from his association with his home planet.)

*Polaris

*Iron Clad - (There are actually two ways Iron Clad can win this match...one might be water, and the other is if your opponent doesn't give an opening debate. You win for this reason!)

*Death's Head II

[Vanguard07]

Beta Ray Bill
Polaris
Iron Clad
Blastaar

[POWdER-man]

Iron Clad - no debate
Death's Head - a more convincing opening debate. However I am not really convince on these "official" marvel results. They seem to bundle certain people in categories even though they shouldn't be and some stats just seem way out of wack.
BRB - More experience and raw power but I think Skaar had a good chance but this debate was really lacking.
Polaris - Horrible disadvantage in location for Sasquatch

[Midnight Ice]

Beta Ray Bill
Polaris
Iron Clad
Death's Head II

[wiegeabo]

Beta Ray Bill - great match that would be fun to see. But I think Stormbreaker and Bill's experience give him the edge

Sasquatch - I was going to vote for Polaris, but there was one problem with Ice's writeup. Vibranium isn't magnetic. And since Sasquatch can go toe to toe with the Hulk, he should have enough endurance to last against Polaris.

Living Lightening - I'm not sure how IC can hurt Living Lightening, but I'm not sure LL can hurt Iron Clad either. Even without debate, LL has the better chance.

Death's Head II - This is one of those matches where it comes down to how many times out of 100 fights each wins. I think DH II gets the edge with the variety he brings to the fight.

[JewishHobbit]

Death's Head II - This is a beast! I was really hoping to pick him up myself, darn you Phaed!
Sasquatch
Beta Ray Bill - Not much of a debate but I think the Experience wins it in the end.
Living Lightening - I debating on this one because I just feel 100% that he'd win. I didn't feel right voting without a debate but I'm just not at all convinced from the small one for Ironclad that we were given. In the end I decided to trust my instincts.

[Franklin Richards]

Blastaar - Staple of the Marvel Universe. DHII is a Z List.

Beta Ray Bill - "If there is nothing but what we make in this world, brothers, let us make good."

Polaris - Vibranium isn't metallic and actually it's no harder than steel. It just absorbs.

Ironclad - Since everyone seems to be voting against me despite the fact that there wasn't a debate. Seems to be a pattern these days.







:ff: :ff: :ff:

[random_havoc]

LL
Death head 2
Polaris
BRB

[wiegeabo]

I'll defend my vote for no debate by saying that I'm notorious for voting for characters without a debate. I should say that I don't do it often, but I'm not afraid to do so if I'm not convinced. I don't believe no-debate = loss. Others may, but not me.

[Franklin Richards]

Just feels like an alliance sometimes. Especially when you've had a couple of weeks like I've just had.



:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Midnight Ice]

Vibranium isn't magnetic

Vibranium isn't metallic and actually it's no harder than steel. It just

I must have got some bad info then. I think it was Wiki that described Vibranium as being a metal. And since its a metal I figured it would be metallic. My bad.

[Harlekin]

Beta Ray Bill
Polaris
Iron Clad - Two people, Franklin. Two people. Everybody else voted for you.
Death's Head II

[random_havoc]

I voted LL because he's essentially fighting a big lightning rod. I don't need a debate to convince me in that case. In cases where the outcome isn't so obvious, then I go with whoever put the debate effort in.

[Franklin Richards]

Iron Clad[/b] - Two people, Franklin. Two people. Everybody else voted for you.


Actually it was three. Three people. What's that in percentage?


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[JewishHobbit]

While I typically stick to those that debate, I have on occasion broken form when I was just 100% not convinced by the given debate. Unfortunately, this is one of those times.

I can understand the frustration though. Same thing happened to be in my Mountjoy/Starfox match. There wasn't a debate for Starfox and it was still a close match.

[Harlekin]

Actually it was three. Three people. What's that in percentage?


:thing: :doom: :thing:
Not at the time I read your comment.

Either way, hardly grounds to whine about 'everybody voting against you'.

[Franklin Richards]

Really? Cause the third vote for LL was cast at 12:01 AM CDT and you posted at 5:38 AM CDT.

I'm not whining. I'm pointing out that apparantly debating means squat. Preconceived notions rule. Alliances could easily be formed. This is a voting game like Survivor. And I've been targeted in some very iffy matches lately. I suppose I should just shut-up and play but then that would mean I didn't really care.


And if I didn't care, I'd just quit.



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Phaedrus45]

Hey Franklin. I understand your frustration; and, complaints are ok. I just want to make sure we all understand the rule that when voting is going on, we are only allowed to vote for our characters without any comments added afterwards. After voting is over, then everyone should feel free to make comments and discuss the matches at length.

As for voting when there isn't an opposing debate, that's happened all three seasons. I can think of a couple times where a debated character has lost; but, for the most part, an undebated character usually will only top out at three or four votes. As a rule, you vote for who you think can win, and if a debate does not convince you, then you should vote for the opposing person. It's just an preference by many that if you don't get an opposing debate, you don't vote for the person who didn't give the other a chance to dispute.

Personally, I can see both sides...and, I've done both.

[Franklin Richards]

Then nobody should be able to comment until the voting is over.



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Phaedrus45]

And, I can promise you that I would never gang up on someone, or vote against someone to spite them. On this, I would swear to you as truthful.

[Phaedrus45]

Then nobody should be able to comment until the voting is over.



:ff: :ff: :ff:

Well, the other rule is that we cannot comment on someone's match until debates are over. The voting is our chance to finally get our feelings about what we've been reading out. BUT, the other rule is that people are not allowed to read other votes until they vote. I know there is no way to make sure this doesn't happen...but, I think most everyone follows that rule. We all know we wouldn't want someone's comment to effect our matches; so, in that vein, I would think everyone wouldn't do it.

[Harlekin]

Really? Cause the third vote for LL was cast at 12:01 AM CDT and you posted at 5:38 AM CDT.
I only skim the votes until I've voted myself. I checked the other posts after I read your comment. Skipped over random_havoc's.

I'm not whining. I'm pointing out that apparantly debating means squat. Preconceived notions rule. Alliances could easily be formed. This is a voting game like Survivor. And I've been targeted in some very iffy matches lately. I suppose I should just shut-up and play but then that would mean I didn't really care.
My rule is 'debate=win' but I know that's not how everybody plays. As it stands though, I take some offence to you questioning the integrity of the others. To form alliances to get one particular person out of the game? Honestly, that you would even think that says more about you than about the others.

[Franklin Richards]

Well, the other rule is that we cannot comment on someone's match until debates are over. The voting is our chance to finally get our feelings about what we've been reading out. BUT, the other rule is that people are not allowed to read other votes until they vote. I know there is no way to make sure this doesn't happen...but, I think most everyone follows that rule. We all know we wouldn't want someone's comment to effect our matches; so, in that vein, I would think everyone wouldn't do it.

So a voter can attack my posts without fear of rebuttal and can change the outcome of the final tally by influencing others uncontested?


That don't sound right to me.


:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Franklin Richards]

I only skim the votes until I've voted myself. I checked the other posts after I read your comment. Skipped over random_havoc's.


My rule is 'debate=win' but I know that's not how everybody plays. As it stands though, I take some offence to you questioning the integrity of the others. To form alliances to get one particular person out of the game? Honestly, that you would even think that says more about you than about the others.

Really? Oh. I guess I'm paranoid. I thought the winning percentages and bragging rights for winning were talked about all the time in the discussion thread. I guess I was wrong to think that all of us wanted to win.

An alliance. What was I thinking? Nothing like that has ever happened in the history of gaming. For me to even entertain the thought is ludicrous.



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, guys...let's not get too heated about this subject. Remember, this is just a silly game we play for fun.

Again, I understand your frustration, Franklin. If there is something in the rules that people don't like, we always discuss changes when a season ends. (It's when we decided at the beginning of Season 2 that people who own characters can't make comments.)

Personally, I like to know why someone voted against me when I read the votes. I'm not sure about the others. And, like I said, I know I don't read other people's votes when I'm doing my voting. (Well, that might be a bit apparent since I usually vote first or second in all the matches.)

I understand the paranoia, though. I sometimes worry that by voting first, someone might not like I voted against their character and won't vote for one of my characters...or, if I'm doing good with my characters, they might vote against me in later matches, simply because I'm winning too much. I think it's natural to be a little paranoid. But, I have to put that aside and figure everyone will give me the same consideration that I give them. It's really all I can do.

Again, personally, I hate it most when I lose a match to the flip of a coin; but, I have to understand that is that voter's final decision. However they vote is not up to me, no matter how much I don't like it.

[POWdER-man]

Okay this doesn't need to get carried away.

Personally I am usually at the beginning of the voting(sometimes first but usually within the first 3) and I usually vote in the threads that don't have a lot of debating in them first and move on to ones that either have many debates and/or a match I can't decide and have to think about it more. I sometimes do this at work when I have a free opportunity so sometimes my votes get oddly placed because I don't have time to read a full page or two of debates right away. I try to read some during the debating but I usually end up reading it all over again anyway so I found it to be a waste of time.

In any case I give everyone a fair chance. Most of the time I don't even know who owns who, so when it comes to the standings I am having to go back to the start of the week to see who owns who. I don't care about the standings, and really I don't mind not doing them. One less thing I have to worry about. So if people prefer it not be shown, it doesn't matter to me. I just thought people would like to keep track of how many characters they have continuing on to the next round, etc. Really if I didn't do this for myself I know I would lose track.

Whe it comes to an undebated match on one side. 9/10 I will pick the person who debated because they put the effort into doing it. HOWEVER, there is always the chance that after reading the debate that I am just not convinced it would work. In that case, I don't feel it is fair to remove a really good character in the case that person had something personal come up that week and couldn't come on. I would do this for anyone and really if you were away for a week (actually more like 5 days) unexpectedly would you like to lose a character like Thor or Iron Man to someone like Beak just because you didn't debate? There is no golden rule on the way people should decide their votes. In the end it's whoever they feel would really win.

This matchup is interesting because even though I voted IC, I could see why others would vote LL.

I remember in Season 1 I had Iron Man facing Sandman (both my character), I debated on behalf of Iron Man but Sandman actually won the popular vote. I definitely didn't understand it, just like I have for many matches, but it is what it is. If this was just a straight up Versus thread a lot of these matches would turn out differently. But that's not the point of the Contest of Marvels.

I was here from Day 1 when JH had first made the offer of those two spidey comics. When I look at the characters I selected I have to laugh because 80% of them were Spider-Man characters. Sadly against characters like Thanos they didn't do well. Haha and really I had some of the worst %'s but I still debated like hell for each match because every once in awhile I got one through. Fortunately I had characters like Desak, Iron Man and Loki (who I got from someone else who left the tourney).

I know some people much more better than others, and others I have not had a chance to get to know (yet). This is one of my favorite things to do on the Hype and even though I sometimes would like to go through this screen and shake some of them for what they said or how they voted, I have respected the decision and moved on. I still think about matchups from the first season, christ that Kid Omega and Blackbolt matchup still bugs me. (heheh :) ) But all I know is that there is no secret alliance. This isn't Survivor. The vary notion is actually insulting. I am an honest person, even in Survivor, and maybe I am just gullible but I believe in the honesty and integrity of every person in this tournament. I believe and expect them to vote in the way they feel is best, and I don't expect anything less from them.

[JewishHobbit]

And to add to the conversation, I created this game to be a gentlemen's game among online friends. If I thought for a second that anyone was creating alliances or planning against other players, I'd throw them out of the game in a heart beat. That's not how I play and that's not how I want anyone else to play. That stuff is fun in Hype Survivor (as Powder and I have experiences with) but this isn't the place for it. I want everyone to have fun and be fair.

Now, yes, there will be times when you get upset at how a match turns out, but it's just part of the game. I've already had that little experience earlier this season when I lost 3 matches over a couple weeks that I felt 100% I should have won, but I sucked it up, got over it, and moved on. It's understandable to become frustrated, but don't take it too personally. We all think the world of you, Frank.

Now, who wants to form an alliance against Powder, Phaed, and W? Knock down their percentages a bit :)

(and to throw my 2 cents in Powder... I enjoy seeing the percentages.)

[Franklin Richards]

I say what I think. Sometimes I will apologize for what I said, but I'll never apologize for being honest with my thoughts.


And hey! I lost the Invisible Woman... I'm venting.


:D


As for being insulted that I brought up the possibility of an alliance... well that's being a little sensitive isn't it?



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[wiegeabo]

Now, who wants to form an alliance against Powder, Phaed, and W? Knock down their percentages a bit :)

I do!


What? If I'm going down, I'm taking everyone with me! :D

[POWdER-man]

Considering I know most of the people on here from Season one and outside of here, no I don't think it is being sensitive. Like JH said it is supposed to be a gentleman's game, and I believe in that. I can understand being frustrated and venting, believe me, but taking it out on others is not the way go, nor making unfounded accusations.

[Franklin Richards]

Unfounded? Make one of your charts about who has voted for who since the beginning of this.



:ff: :ff: :ff:

[Harlekin]

I play to win, no doubt about it. But wanting to win does not equal cheating, which is what I consider an alliance to be in this game. So being accused of that, as indirectly as it might be, is offensive and I don't think I'm being sensitive. As it is, I look at the characters, not the owners.

[wiegeabo]

Let's move this into the discussion thread guys.

[POWdER-man]

Edit nevermind.

[Phaedrus45]

Sounds good...comment in the discussion thread about something I thought about.

[Hellstormer]

Sasquatch

BRB

Iron Clad

Death's Head II

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

*Beta Ray Bill defeats Skaar 10-1

*Polaris defeats Sasquatch 8-3

*Iron Clad defeats Living Lightning 8-3

*Death's Head II defeats Blastaar 9-2

[CoMarvels]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Monet St. Croix (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/monet-1.jpg

vs.

Halloween Jack (JEWISHHOBBIT) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Jack_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/halloweenjack.jpg

Match 2:

Speed (VANGUARD07) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Speed)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/speed-1.jpg

vs.

Apocalypse (WIEGEABO) link (http://www.mutanthigh.com/apocalypse.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/apoc.jpg

[CoMarvels]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Bulldozer (MIDNIGHTICE) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Bulldozer_(Henry_Camp))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/bulldozer-1.jpg

vs.

Namorita (FRANKLINRICHARDS) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Namorita)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/namorita.jpg

Match 2:

Joystick (WITCHKING) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Joystick)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/joystick-1.jpg

vs.

Jocasta (POWDER-MAN) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Jocasta)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/jocasta-1.jpg

[CoMarvels]

Location: Asteroid M

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Asteroid_M

[JewishHobbit]

Halloween Jack Vs Monet St. Croix

I love all things X-Men 2099 related, and I LOVE Halloween Jack.

Unfortunatley, while he's cool, Monet's powerset can overcome anything Jack can do and I can't think of a single thing that would allow Jack to pull off a win. She can withstand any physical attack he'd attempt. She's a genious like him so she can stand against him wit for wit, he can shapeshift but her strength would counteract whatever he shapeshifts into, her flight can counter anything he can shapeshift into that can fly, etc.

He can match her in a lot of ways, but not overcome her, and she can overcome him in a lot of ways.

So I conceide this match. Not like he has a chance against what will most probably be Apocalypse in round 2 anyway.

Winner - M

[wiegeabo]

Monet St. Croix vs Halloween Jack

Halloween Jack may be a heck of a villain, but I think he's outmatched in this fight.

First off, even if he were to shapeshift himself into a form to hide and surprise M, she's still got telepathy and enhanced senses to warn her where he is. And if he did get a surprise attack, her invulnerability will keep it from being a kill.

And offensively she has super strength and agility. Combine that with her invulnerability and fight training, and she's a top level opponent.

She also has a genius level intellect, which includes an aptitude for technology. That means she's also got the chance to turn the asteroid against Jack.

It's not a lopsided victory for sure. This'll be a good, tough fight. But Monet has all the skills and powers she needs to come out on top.


Monet St. Croix wins

[wiegeabo]

Apocalypse vs Speed

This is a really bad draw for Speed. Apocalypse has dealt with all sorts of metahumans. A speedster isn't going to be much of a threat. Not after all the sorts of fights Apoc has been in and walked away from. Speed might be able to try hit and runs, might even be able to keep away from Apoc. But it's just a stalling tactic. And Apoc even has a bit of super human speed himself.

Speed does have one thing going for him though. His hyperkinetic vibrations that cause matter to explode. It means he could destroy the things around Apoc in an effort to hurt him. But it really wouldn't do much good. He could even try to accelerate and explode Apoc himself, or pieces of him, but I doubt he'd have much success. Even a weakened, near dead Apoc was able to take down the X-Men. And if Speed does too much damage, he could end up make the asteroid unlivable for him. (Apoc would be fine since he really doesn't need air or anything else to live.)


As for Apoc, he has too many cards to play. He doesn't even have to directly engage Speed. Apoc is a master of all types of technology, even those of other worlds far, far more advanced then our own. Taking over the asteroid wouldn't be a problem, and he could turn it against Speed.

Or he could just fight Speed directly. Never wearing down, never stopping. Even able to morph his very body into the weapons he needs to kill Speed. There's just not much the kid could do.


Apocalypse wins

[POWdER-man]

Jocasta vs Joystick

An interesting matchup but one that favors Jocasta.

First off a brief run down on each character's powers.

Joystick - possesses superhuman strength, agility, and speed. She can become a being of "pure action" at will which further enhances her speed, agility, and reflexes. She carries batons that she can charge with energy that is released on impact or as energy blasts generated by striking the batons together. She was formerly with the Thunderbolts but after turning on her teammates, she was subdued and was last seen in prison.

Jocasta has the following abilities:

Computer Integration: Jocasta can also detect energy patterns and track them to their source. She is hyper-intelligent and can communicate through an incalculable number of mediums.
Superhuman Strength
Durability: body is composed of titanium steel with remarkable strength which can withstand most physical and energy attacks.
Superhuman Senses: possesses a heightened sense of sight, smell, and hearing.
Eye Blasters: able to shoot blasts of energy from her eyes.
Force Field: can erect a force field around herself to protect her from incoming attacks
Being a "non-living" construct, she requires no food, water, or oxygen to survive and thus is also immune to poisons and diseases and can easily survive in the vacuum of space and underwater.

She is also a member of the Avengers allowing her access to their files.

Prep-Time

Joystick was last seen in prison so she would not have the ability to search any files, nor has she ever encountered Jocasta so she wouldn't know anything of her powers or abilities. However looking at the picture she would know she is facing someone metallic looking.

Jocasta on the other hand would have access to Avenger's files and will be able to learn everything she needs to know about Joystick and her powers. Considering Joystick is a criminal she would have no problem in using harsh methods to subdue her opponent. She would be able to access information regarding Asteroid M. The exact amount of information is unclear but she will realize at the very least that 1. It is in space 2. There would be computer system and defences. 3. There is a slight chance that she would be able to find out that there would be a power inhibitor to take away Joystick's powers. (however this could be later discovered when integrated into the computer system)

Battle

As this match begins Jocasta goes to the first control panel she finds and integrates into the computer systems. She immediately locates Joystick and uses the defenses to try and subdue her. Unfortunately due her quick agility and reflexes she would probably avoid these weapons quite easily. She then finds out about the power inhibitors and takes away all her physical abilities leaving only her energy batons. This would make her an easier target for the defenses to knock her out, ending this matchup.

If this match didn't go this way and were to become a direct fight, Jocasta has force shields to keep Joystick away from her and combining it with her titanium body can withstand any attack by Joystick. Which means Joystick won't be able to harm Jocasta. Now Joystick's speed, agility and reflexes would keep her safe from Jocasta energy blasts but Joystick has only enhanced stamina and durability, which means she will eventually wear down and Jocasta could finish her. Jocasta requires no food, water, or rest and could go on forever.

Finally Jocasta could take a more harsher strategy (or as a last resort if she can not subdue her on her own) and blasts an outer window and send Joystick to her death. Jocasta does not need to breathe, unfortunately for Joystick she doesn't have the same advantage.

WINNER JOCASTA

[Midnight Ice]

Bulldozer VS Namorita-Opening Debate
This is a pretty even match. Both of these characters are brawlers, and according to Marvel's ratings, are equal to each other in all categories. The reason I think Bulldozer has the major advantage here is the absence of a main water source.

The longer Namorita stays out of water, the weaker she gets. The longer the fight lasts, the weaker she will get while Bulldozer retains all his strength. Eventually Bulldozer's power would be too much for Namorita to withstand and she would fall.

Winner: Bulldozer

[Vanguard07]

Apocalypse vs Speed:

For the second time this week:
Well balls.

Alright, well Apocalypse, while greatly overpowered compared to Speed, is still too slow to take Speed down right away. Speed could dodge and evade Apoc for a while and he'd likely be able to at least make a few good attempts. With the right choice of tactics, he could even pull out a win.

Here's the plan.
Plan A:
Explode apocalypse' face!
With Speed's primary trait, he'd be easilly fast enough to get inside of Apoc's guard and make contact. Thus he'd be able to charge Apoc's head up and cause it to explode (he has no difficulty whatsoever doing this to dense object such as rocks and there's nothing in his bio that states he couldnt do this to living matter)
Now Apocalypse is tough, I dont think i've ever seen him be decapitated and keep fighting. He may, eventually recover, but not in time to win the fight.

If that plan should fail.
Plan B:
-Find a space suit.
-Explode a section (or sections) of the hull, causing Apoc to be jettissoned out into space. (outrunning the explosive decompression to prevent following him out)
-Access the asteroids' weapons systems and bomb the holy living **** out of Apocalypse's space-floating *** before he gets back.

Asteroid M, if i'm not mistaken contained a full compliment of nuclear weapons at one point. Supposing they still do, I dont think even Apoc could sustain multiple ground zero nuclear blasts without having the fight taken out of him.

Speed wins.

[WitchKing]

Joystick vs. Jocasta

Joystick has all sorts of advantages in this battle. She possesses superhuman strength which she can compress 10 tons, agility, and speed that is roughly equivalent to Spider-man. She carries batons that she can charge with energy that is released on impact or as energy blasts generated by striking the batons together. During the Great Game she was going to take on the likes of Namor. With her energy blasts from her batons and the fact the she can crush Jocasta like a tin can, she will win this battle. It is also believed that she is bisexual and that is just hott.

Winner - Joystick

[WitchKing]

Rebuttle Joystick vs. Jocasta

As this match begins Jocasta goes to the first control panel she finds and integrates into the computer systems. She immediately locates Joystick and uses the defenses to try and subdue her. Unfortunately due her quick agility and reflexes she would probably avoid these weapons quite easily.

Thanks for saying this so I dont have to.

Jocasta has force shields to keep Joystick away from her and combining it with her titanium body can withstand any attack by Joystick.Which means Joystick won't be able to harm Jocasta.

She will have to come out of those force fields to attack Joystick and with her speed and agility close to the likes of spiderman that will not be easy. Joystick can then can go for the final blow and crush Jocasta like a Dr Pepper can.

Finally Jocasta could take a more harsher strategy (or as a last resort if she can not subdue her on her own) and blasts an outer window and send Joystick to her death. Jocasta does not need to breathe, unfortunately for Joystick she doesn't have the same advantage.

Ok I give this would kill Joystick good job, however being that this is space it would also create a vacuum and send Jocasta into space which will make it hard for her to make her next match, not sure if she would really take this road.

WINNER JOYSTICK

[POWdER-man]

Joystick vs. Jocasta

Joystick has all sorts of advantages in this battle. She possesses superhuman strength which she can compress 10 tons, agility, and speed that is roughly equivalent to Spider-man. She carries batons that she can charge with energy that is released on impact or as energy blasts generated by striking the batons together.

Yes her agility and speed are higher. I would say strength would be close and Jocasta can generate her own energy blasts.

Regardless, she has shields that will keep her at a distance.

During the Great Game she was going to take on the likes of Namor.

She didn't even fight Namor. So I am not sure what the point of bringing this up.

With her energy blasts from her batons and the fact the she can crush Jocasta like a tin can, she will win this battle. It is also believed that she is bisexual and that is just hott.

1. Jocasta has shields, Joystick can't get around that so she can't do any damage to Jocasta.
2. She only has 10 tons in strength, Jocasta has her own superstrength and her body is made of titanium.
3. I have brought up Jocasta's strategy as this will probably not be a direct fight with her ability to integrate with the computer systems.

Jocasta has plenty of actual advantages with her ability to prepare in prep-time, allowing her to know everything about Joystick. Her ability to use the weapon systems to attack Joystick, and use the built in power diffuser to take away her physical powers. Jocasta's shields to take away any direct attacks by Jocasta. The fact they are in space and Jocasta could eject her into space. Plus that Joystick would eventually wear down from all the attacks making her an easier target.

One way or another Jocasta takes this matchup.

WINNER JOCASTA

[POWdER-man]

Rebuttal Joystick vs. Jocasta


Thanks for saying this so I dont have to.

You left the rest of that paragraph out so I am just putting it up again. I gave your character props that she would be able to avoid most defensive weapons, although she doesn't have Spider-Man's spidey sense to warn her like Spider-Man so that doesn't mean she can't be hit and even Spider-Man gets hit.

However, a power inhibitor would take away all her powers making her an easier target not only for the defenses but for Jocasta if she chose to involve herself in the match. Remember this a machine with a far more intelligent artificial mind than Joystick and she would have prep-time on her side, as well as the ability to study not only her opponent for 24 hours, but the location with access to Avenger's files.

As this match begins Jocasta goes to the first control panel she finds and integrates into the computer systems. She immediately locates Joystick and uses the defenses to try and subdue her. Unfortunately due her quick agility and reflexes she would probably avoid these weapons quite easily. She then finds out about the power inhibitors and takes away all her physical abilities leaving only her energy batons. This would make her an easier target for the defenses to knock her out, ending this matchup.


She will have to come out of those force fields to attack Joystick and with her speed and agility close to the likes of spiderman that will not be easy. Joystick can then can go for the final blow and crush Jocasta like a Dr Pepper can.

Like I said before, this match will probably not become a direct fight. Jocasta has all the advantages of prep-time and being accessible to computer systems. With her intelligent artificial mind she will analyze the best strategy in taking down her opponent after learning of her abilities.

Besides as undoubtful as this would become a direct fight Jocasta would know about her speed and agility from Prep-time. She isn't going to open her shields right in front of Joystick. Joystick has superhuman speed but it isn't light-speed quick, so from a distance even she wouldn't be able to reach Jocasta in time. Jocasta would put her shields down only long enough to fire an energy blast, and then it is back up before Joystick can move in.

Otherwise, even if she manage to get within the shields, Joystick has superhuman strength (it's not like she has 100 ton strength) but so does Jocasta. Plus Jocasta is very durable due to her titanium body which can withstand most physical and energy attacks. Most as in only the higher end characters can damage her. Joystick is only at 10 tons making her near the bottom in superhuman strength. I don't know about you but I have never encountered a titanium can of Dr. Pepper.

At the very least Jocasta could withstand her initial attack and then put her shields up again.

One thing I didn't bring up is that Joystick would have no idea that Jocasta has shields, so when they first encounter each other (if they encounter each other), Joystick will hit the shields and get knocked down giving Jocasta a perfect opportunity to blast her with an energy blast and taking her out.

Ok I give this would kill Joystick good job, however being that this is space it would also create a vacuum and send Jocasta into space which will make it hard for her to make her next match, not sure if she would really take this road.

Heh, I am not sure if you are joking on this last part but in case you are not; The match will be over regardless because Joystick would be dead. Jocasta has put herself in danger many times before for the sake of taking out her opponent. Once Joystick is dead the match is over, that's that. Game Over.

Jocasta will be able to develop a plan with her far superior mind and combining that with her prep-time that will allow her to study her opponent to know her strengths and weaknesses and learning about the location.

With this knowledge she will be able to prepare for this far more than Joystick who will be starting from scratch without knowing anything about her opponent or the location.

AS well, with Jocasta's ability to integrate into the computer system will allow her to make the defences' of Asteroid M to attack Joystick. She will also find out that there is a power inhibitor to take away any chance Joystick has in this match.

I highly doubt this will go to hand-to-hand but Jocasta still has her shields to keep Joystick away and give Jocasta the chance to attack from a distance. eventually wearing Joystick down and getting the final blow to end this match.

If this match goes no where or Jocasta actually gets into trouble she could blast an exterior window sending either just joystick or both of them into space. While Joystick will immediately suffocate, Jocasta is a machine and would survive the match and win.

WINNER JOCASTA

[Phaedrus45]

Debates Are Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[POWdER-man]

Jocasta
Bulldozer - this could have been a better match if debated
Monet - JH conceded
...
Apocalypse - Man you almost had me convinced but 'lips is just too experience while speed isn't. He wouldn't even know how powerful lips is.

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Monet St. Croix

*Apocalypse

*Bulldozer - (I probably would have voted for Namorita, especially since there are water sources on Asteroid M. These mutants DO have to live up there, after all. Even Magneto needs water. But, no debate made me side with Bull, especially since the battle would be pretty even anyway.)

*Joystick - (I will say Powder gave a better debate; but, I remember Joystick from those last Thunderbolt's adventures, and she was very bad-ass! They had trouble taking her down. Also, I remember Jocasta, and she simply isn't as ruthless as Powder makes her out to be.)

[WitchKing]

Joystick
Bulldozer
Apocalypse
Monet

[random_havoc]

Monet
Apocalypse
Jocasta (Hate the character passionately, but the debate convinced me)
Dozer- Would've voted Namorita pretty easily, but it was really close, and the lack of debate swayed me.

[Midnight Ice]

Monet St. Croix
Apocalypse-I was almost convinced that Speed could take this. He he had encounted Apocalypse before, than maybe, but one mistake would be fatal.
Bulldozer
Joystick

[wiegeabo]

Monet St. Croix

Apocalypse

Bulldozer

Jocasta - No air makes for a tough match for Joystick.

[Harlekin]

M
Apocalypse
Bulldozer
Jocasta

[Ahura Mazda]

Jocasta - She has too many resources in Asteroid M

Bulldozer - No debate

Apocalypse - Don't see him losing to Speed

Monet - match conceded

[JewishHobbit]

Bulldozer
Monet
Joystick
Speed

[JewishHobbit]

Monet defeats Halloween Jack = 9-0

Apocalypse defeats Speed = 8-1

Bulldozer defeats Namorita = 9-1

Jacosta defeats Joystick = 5-4 (the only close match this week)

[CoMarvels]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Kane-Weapon X (HELLSTROMER) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Kane,_Garrison)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/kane-1.jpg

vs.

Karolina Dean (POWDER-MAN) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karolina_Dean)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/karolina.jpg

Match 2:

Hellion (VANGUARD07) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellion)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/hellion-1.jpg

vs.

Vision-Original (POWDER-MAN) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_(Marvel_Comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/vision-1.jpg

[CoMarvels]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Red Skull (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Skull)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/redskull-1.jpg

vs.

Cannonball (MIDNIGHTICE) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannonball_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/cannonball-1.jpg

Match 2:

Wolverine (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/wolverines.jpg

vs.

Wild Thing (HELLSTROMER) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Thing_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/wildthing.jpg

[CoMarvels]

Location: Savage Land

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Land

This location is inhabited by all it's natural inhabitants. Only major Marvel characters would be excluded, like Shanna and Ka-Zar. Dinosaurs, animals, bugs, and natives could be around, and should be taken into consideration when debating.

[CoMarvels]

Debating May Begin!!!

[Vanguard07]

Hellion vs the Vision: Opening Debate:

I'll just go straight down to the basics on this one. Hellion posseses the flight and maneuverability to keep away from the vision, he posseses the defensive powers to protect himself from any beams vision tries and he has the firepower to tear him apart easilly at any point where he's tangible.

the Vision has been shown to be vulnerable to sufficiently high powered/high density energy attacks before, even while "intangible" and due to the extremely versatile nature of telekinesis, this is therefor only a matter of focus for Julian to manage to take vision down.

Furthermore, the Vision being an android, Julian knows that machines can always be rebuilt and thus will have no qualms about going all out. Vision does not have that freedom.

Hellion is more than capable of winning.

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/138701-39743-wild-thing.JPG (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/138701-39743-wild-thing.JPG)
Wild Thing VS. Wolverine

This is a very interesting match that's really gonna work in Wild Thing's favor. First off he won't be able to research her at all because she doesn't exist, but she grew up with him. He taught her how to fight and even shares her powers. She learned how to fight by not only him, but also Elektra. Best of all she learned to fight from a much older version of Wolverine who had further mastered his form. She's going in with the same healing factor and a theoretically better fighting style and absolute knowledge of her enemy.

The best part is he's trained her in the Savage Lands and she knows the area so when she first shows up she's gonna know what scent to look for and how he moves. She'll also know that her only real bet will be to incapacitate him. Since he won't know what he's in for and she has the tactical advantage this will be an easy task.

Really this fight is totally in Wild Thing's favor.

Winner=Wild Thing

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/462/79464-184511-garrison-kane.jpg
Weapon X VS. Lucy in the Sky

These are two very different superhumans who travel in different circles. Karolina won't be able to get any information, but it's possible Kane could get some information on her species. Kane's best bet will be to bring a good batch of artillery and download new powers as he sees necessary.

When the actually fight begins Kane will just analyze his opponent. He's been too well trained to simply rush into the fight. He'll take in all the data he needs and at some point he'll realize that she needs solar power. If need be he might try and take the fight underground to limit her movement and solar intake. Even if that doesn't work he'll begin to fight back using all kind of advanced artillery. I'm not sure Karolina can hold up against RPGs and poisonous gas but even if she does she'll still feel the effects. As far as blocking her blasts, it will just be a matter of shielding and proper cover. Kane's experience and tactile abilities are the real winners.

Winner=Kane

[Midnight Ice]

Red Skull VS Cannonball

If you ask me, this matchup is pretty one sided. Red Skull is pretty much a normal human as regards to strength and powers and such. Cannonball on the otherhand can blast himself at hugh speeds and protect himself in an indestructible shield. He also has vast knowledge of the Savage Land. All it will take is a blast directly into the Skull and he is out of the fight.

Winner:Cannonball

[wiegeabo]

Wolverine vs Wild Thing

Logan has three distinct advantages over his daughter, adamantium-lined bones, physical claws, and tons and tons of experience.

It's this experience that's going to give Logan the important edge. As much as mom and dad taught Rina, (and looking at her parents, that's going to be a lot) Logan literally has decades more fighting and hunting experience then she does. And he's been to the location who knows how many times. How often has Rina been to, and fought in, the Savage Land?

Now, Rina's claws are dangerous, no doubt. If she focuses, she could slice Logan up pretty well. But they'd never get through his skeleton. Whereas Logan could inflict all sorts of damage in a physical confrontation. And with his superior skills, I have little doubt he'd win such a fight. In fact, once he realizes she heals just as quickly as he does, he'll have no reason to hold back for fear of killing her. Heck, he'll pretty much know what it takes to put her down, because it's what would be needed to put him down. And if she triggers his berserker rage...

As for tracking and stealth, they're likely equals. But, again, Logan has the experiential edge. Either neither of them are going to be able to sneak up on the other, and they'll just end up getting right into the fight, or Logan will be able to get the jump on Rina. It might not turn out to be a huge edge, but with the skill sets we're talking here, any edge could spell victory.


So, we're down to the last two points: Rina's psychic attacks. And being Wolverine's daughter.

If she tells him she's his daughter, Logan might be stunned for a second. But this is a daughter he doesn't know. There's no real emotional attachment. And Logan knows he has to win this match, and Logan's one for doing what needs to be done. I think it's more likely Rina will be unwilling to fight her father than the other way around.

As for her claws, Logan doesn't need to know that their psionic like Psylocke's. You see someone with energy claws on their hands that look much like your own...you know enough not to get hit by them.


Hell of a matchup, but he isn't the best at what he does for nothing.


Wolverine wins

[wiegeabo]

Red Skull vs Cannonball

Cannonball has power, no doubt about that. But Red Skull has access to advanced technologies, weapons, and information.

Add to that the fact the Red Skull is a genius, as well as a master strategist and tactician. If there's information about Cannonball out there, Skull can find it. And if not, well, looking at the name and picture, it doesn't take someone with Red Skull's intellect to see he's going up against some type of human cannonball.

In regards to weapons, the Skull has used forcefields before to protect himself from Captain America. It should provide him protection from Sam. Then there's a variety of offensive weapons available to the Skull.

And if Sam gets close enough (especially if he thinks he's beaten the Skull and goes to make sure), he can blow his patented Dust of Death in Sam's face (or get Sam to fly through it). If that happens, Sam's as good as dead. Actually...he's very much dead.

Tough fight. But the Skull is nothing if not resourceful, and used to fighting from an apparent underdog position.


Red Skull wins

[POWdER-man]

VISION vs HELLION

Okay very cool that I got the original vision instead of the Iron Lad version. I have always been a fan of the original version.

Let's review Hellion's powers:
Hellion is a telekinetic. He is able to fly at subsonic speeds, create telekinetic force fields, unleash powerful blasts of telekinetic force, and levitate and manipulate objects from afar.

While Vision is quite well known I will go over his powers in case you are unsure to the extent.

Holographic Manipulation

Audio Sensitivity: Vision can adjust the sensitivity of his audio receptors to a point where he can detect the faintest of sounds.

Visual Scanners: Vision is capable of scanning life forms, energy sources and other objects detecting the substances that they are composed of.

Vocal Imitation: Vision is capable of replicating and mimicking the voices of other people enabling him to impersonate them and even create his own.

Superhuman Stamina: The Vision is capable of exerting himself at peak capacity for about twenty-four hours before fatigue poisons build up in his artificial blood and cause him to tire.

Superhuman Reflexes: The Vision's practical reaction time is more than twice as fast as that of an average human being.

Solar Absorption: The solar jewel on The Visions brow absorbs ambient solar energy that his body is able to convert directly into usable forms by a process not unlike photosynthesis in plants, but with 99% efficiency. The solar ray absorption process occurs constantly (even at night to some degree) at a rate determined by the expenditure of energy for his bodily needs. Thus the jewel absorbs solar energy most expediently when the Vision utilizes it at some superhuman level of exertion. The Vision does not require liquid or solid foodstuffs for any purpose.

Solar Energy Beams: He can channel limited amounts of solar energy back through the gem at will, creating a narrow hot beam of infrared and microwave radiation. The beam can be controlled within a temperature range of 500 to 30,000 degrees Fahrenheit. At maximum temperature, the Vision can melt through a 1-inch plate of steel in 5 seconds. The Vision cannot control the width of the beam. He can sustain a heat beam at maximum intensity for about 2 minutes before he begins to tax his supply of energy for his other bodily functions. The Vision commonly uses his eyes for this purpose as well.

Density Control: The Vision's body has been saturated with special cybernetically activated cells which are capable of interfacing with some unknown dimension with which he can shunt or accrue particles of mass. Thus the Vision is able to control his density and solidity. By shunting a non-critical portion of his body's molecules away from him, he can become a weightless, transparent, intangible wraith, unable to be touched by solid matter. By accruing extradimensional mass and fortifying his body with it, he can make his body extremely hard and durable to the point that missiles will not harm him.

Superhuman Durability: He can become extraordinary massive and hard as diamond. At maximum mass, the Vision weighs about 90 tons. When this massive, the Vision is barely able to move without causing massive stress to his system, thus risking malfunction.

Intangible Flight: When at a minimum mass, the Vision can fly through the air weightlessly. It is not known how the Vision performs this task. He may be able to maneuver and gain speed by drawing power from the Earth's magnetic field to some degree. When he does however, he is capable of passing through solid matter and reaching high speeds; it took Wonder Man (Simon Williams) some time to catch him. He can carry passengers while remaining solid on the outside, but he is not likely to fly as fast as he normally does. It is either the weight of the passenger that prevents him from doing so or he simply views it as "unsafe" for the passenger. There does not appear to be any limit to the time he can remain in any given altered state of density.

Physical Disruption: The Vision can use his density control offensively be attaining minimum density (intangibility). Passing a part of all of his body within another living being and ever so slightly increasing his density (tangibility). Even increasing his density to one half ounce (14.25 grams) is sufficient to cause the organism he passes through excruciating pain, a shock to the nervous system, and unconsciousness. Were he to become any more dense than one half ounce the shock would probably kill the other organism if the organic damage was not extensive enough to kill the other organism if the organic damage was not extensive enough to kill the other organism in itself. Accordingly, the Vision employs this power with extreme caution.

Computer Interface: The Vision can communicate and interact with other computer systems.

Superhuman Intelligence: He also is capable of rapid analysis of huge amounts of data.

Strength level: While at normal density, Vision possesses superhuman strength to lift approximately 5 tons. However, while at maximum density, his strength is increased sufficiently to allow him to lift approximately 75 tons.

Another thing that Vision is capable of is taking control of humans:
ie.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/avengers111191aw.jpg

Not to forget that Vision is a long standing Avenger and has many years of experience of going up against very powerful characters.

Prep-Time:

Hellion I don't believe has any current group affiliation, leaving him without much in resources. There is a chance he might have heard of Vision being a former Xavier Institute student, but even if has heard of Vision the amount of infomration would be very limited and he would not know the extent of his powers.

While Vision, having access to Avenger's files would be able to draw all the information he will need to know about Hellion to come up with a strategy to take him down.

The location would favor Vision as well(especially with a population), as he had been there before, while Hellion would be in the dark.

Match

As the match begins I could see the match could go in at least two different ways.

1. The first strategy would have Vision becoming intangible and phasing into a native body to take control of them. Hellion would move around looking for Vision, however he would not know he can take control another body leaving him oblivious to the natives around him. (Vision could even be phased into a tree) There is a chance that Hellion could be flying, however with all the trees and cover it would make it very difficult for him to see anything so he would either have to fly low or move on the ground. At this point he would probably have his shields up to prevent any secret attacks. However this would be his second mistake as Vision has been capable to phasing through force shields.
ie. against Invisible Woman who's shields would be far more powerful than Hellion's
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/4a599_visionff4.jpg
He has also phased through shields that Thanos had constructred against him as another example.
At this point Vision would reveal himself as intangible passing through Hellion's shields. He would place a fist through Hellion and in crease his density just enough to knock Hellion unconscious. Considering Hellion has no real durability or healing factor beyond a normal human it would be easy to take him out.

2. The second option would be that when they enounter each other, hellion would send a TK or force blast. But Vision could make himself hard as a diamond and should have no problem taking whatever blast Hellion can produce.
ie. Here not only is he capable of being intangible for the energy blast to go through him but once he becomes hard as a diamond he takes out the Ships power source.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/visionintangibilityfeat.jpg
Taking a full blast from Nefarius:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/avengersunplugged01p165rl.jpg
Taking a full blast from Iron Man and than basically spanks him while he is fighting the remaining Avengers:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/65488_atest2.jpg
This is just a few examples of him withstanding powerful blast without showing any harm. At this point Vision could fire his own energy blast at Hellion and for Hellion to fire his own blast his shields would be down making him an easy target to either walk up to him and knock him out, phase into him and knock him out, blast him with an energy blast, etc.

Vision could even temporary blind Hellion like he did with Thor:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/65915_unlimited2.jpg
Fly through him while intangible knocking him out:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/Avengers071_11a.jpg
Phase into the ground and coming up to surprise Hellion, and taking him out.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/65747_supreme4.jpg


Combining all this with the fact that Vision could generate holographic illusions to confuse Hellion, Vision's virtual scanners which will let him know where Hellion is at all times waiting for the right opening, his 24 hours prep-time to get ready, and all the information from the Avengers files to generate a specific strategy against Hellion. All these factors favor Vision. Hellion is a good character and would be formidable against most but Vision has gone up against some heavy hitters like Silver Surfer, Thor, Hyperion (beat twice), Thing (beat), Absorbing Man (beat), etc. The best part about Vision is that this is only a small taste of what he has done. Vision has far more battle experience and as shown before, Hellion can be easily taken down (and nearly killed) as he was with Lady Deathsrike as he is a human after all. If there was no 24 hours prep this match would be more closer but with 24 hours preperation, Vision is just too powerful for Hellion.

WINNER VISION

[POWdER-man]

karolina Dean vs Kane

Tough first match for Karolina but one that she has a shot.

First a recap of powers:
Weapon X
Before he was given upgrades by the newest incarnation of Weapon X, Kane had a pair of cybernetic arms with superhuman strength. After he was sent to the future he gained new cybernetic apendages which were made out of liquid metal and could transform into shields, knives, or create detatchable remote controlled hands. His arms were also capable of repairing themselves. Due to the enhancements that the newest incarnation of Weapon X has given him, Kane now has numerous bionic appendages which houses various weapons. He now has the ability to see in various spectrums of light, project holograms, and he has a computerized targeting system. His strength was also upgraded and he is now more resistant to damage. He could download super powers such as toxic emissions, metal control, and various other abilities. It has been shown that when Kane was blown up by Deadpool, Weapon X was able to reconstruct him perfectly. It is unknown if he can always be rebuilt or if it was just that one incident.

Kane was trained by Cable in hand-to-hand combat and in guerilla warfare tactics. Kane is an excellent marksman and is proficient with any weapon.

Karolina has powers due to her alien (Majesdanian) physiology. She is able to absorb solar radiation and convert it into a unique energy type which she can manipulate for various uses (an aide of the Kingpin has described her energy as "some sort of cosmic energy"). She is able to store the solar energy in every cell of her body, even her blood. In her natural state, her skin and hair fluoresce with shimmering, rainbow-colored light.
She is able to fly, leaving behind a contrail of the same energy surrounding her. The upper limits of her speed have yet to be determined. She is able to carry others while flying, at one time surrounding her fellow Runaways (minus Chase and Old Lace) in an energy field and flying them to a distant building.

Karolina can also project the energy in a beam of variable intensity and diameter, from a wide concussive blast to a thin cutting beam. She can control the projected energy to a limited degree, forming defensive barriers, enfolding shields, or restraining people.
Match

Karolina would start the match surrounded by her shields as she could see from his picture that he would have firing weapons. She would fly above the area searching for her opponent. Unfortunately due to the cover and trees it would make it difficult to stay in the air so she comes down lower to the ground. Weapon X would undoubtedly be tracking her by now, studying her without her notice. Eventually he would attempt to take her down once he thinks he is ready, but he would be unaware of her shields to deflect his attacks. Karolina seeing this would keep her shields up and when the opportunity arises she generates shields around Weapon X, trapping him inside. She then constructs the energy to restrain Weapon X and then with a direct concussive blast she knocks him out, or leaves him restrained within the restraint or the shields and he would be taken out of the match as he wouldn't be able to get out of them making him subdued ending the match.

Weapon X is a kick-ass character in a direct fight but Karolina is not the type of character that Weapon X can handle. Karolina can keep herself protected from Kane's attacks and eventually using her ability to manipulate energy to her advantage to end this match.

WINNER KAROLINA DEAN

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal: Weapon X VS. Lucy in the Sky



Karolina would start the match surrounded by her shields as she could see from his picture that he would have firing weapons. She would fly above the area searching for her opponent. Unfortunately due to the cover and trees it would make it difficult to stay in the air so she comes down lower to the ground. Weapon X would undoubtedly be tracking her by now, studying her without her notice. Eventually he would attempt to take her down once he thinks he is ready, but he would be unaware of her shields to deflect his attacks. If she starts with her shields like you said that he'll notice them. He can see in multiple spectrums and given that she is primarily light based he'll see any type of shielding she has around her. He can also make shields, but she won't know about those.


Karolina seeing this would keep her shields up and when the opportunity arises she generates shields around Weapon X, trapping him inside. She then constructs the energy to restrain Weapon X and then with a direct concussive blast she knocks him out, or leaves him restrained within the restraint or the shields and he would be taken out of the match as he wouldn't be able to get out of them making him subdued ending the match. I've seen her retrain people and I've seen her fire blast, but I have yet to see her do both and even if she did Kane could just use sonics to break her concentration. Given her inexperience I doubt she can hold the shields under that type of disturbance.

Winner=Kane

[POWdER-man]

Rebuttal: Weapon X VS. Lucy in the Sky

If she starts with her shields like you said that he'll notice them. He can see in multiple spectrums and given that she is primarily light based he'll see any type of shielding she has around her. He can also make shields, but she won't know about those.

He will see that she has spectres of light around her but he wouldn't know that she would have shields.

I've seen her retrain people and I've seen her fire blast, but I have yet to see her do both and even if she did Kane could just use sonics to break her concentration. Given her inexperience I doubt she can hold the shields under that type of disturbance.

Like I said she could still fire a heat blast (that is powerful enough to melt steel) or restrain him, taking him out of the match until it is over.

WINNER Karolina Dean

[POWdER-man]

I had a more descriptive rebuttal to this but I lost it so I will just keep it to the point.

Hellion vs the Vision: Rebuttal

I'll just go straight down to the basics on this one. Hellion posseses the flight and maneuverability to keep away from the vision, he posseses the defensive powers to protect himself from any beams vision tries and he has the firepower to tear him apart easilly at any point where he's tangible.

- Vision can fly as well but I have stated in my opening argument that he would take this fight to the ground as would make more sense for him.
- I have showed how he has easily gone through shields while intangible. Shields erected by far more powerful characters.
- I have also showed how Vision has been able to withstand powerful energy and force blast once he becomes hard as a diamond. He has also been able to withstand powerful blasts while not being intangible nor diamond hard

the Vision has been shown to be vulnerable to sufficiently high powered/high density energy attacks before, even while "intangible" and due to the extremely versatile nature of telekinesis, this is therefor only a matter of focus for Julian to manage to take vision down.

- again I have shown several instances where high powered powered/high density energy attacks have either gone through him while intangible, bounce offf him while diamond hard and just knock him down when neither.

Furthermore, the Vision being an android, Julian knows that machines can always be rebuilt and thus will have no qualms about going all out. Vision does not have that freedom.

- Hellion would not have any access to files to learn about the Vision.
- Vision would have 24 hours prep to get ready for this match and complete access to Avenger's files to learn about Hellion, while Hellion would be in the dark.
- Vision has so much more years experience in fighting and dealing with serious threats to the Earth. He has beaten some heavy hitters and gave others some difficulty. He has beaten whole teams, and embarassed some powerful characters.
- He wouldn't know that the Vision is an android, and despite this he wouldn't know the extent that he can apply his blasts without seriously damaging Vision without repair. He is a hero and so is the Vision. That would be quite reckless and vicious to try to take the Vision that way.
- Vision doesn't need to use his blasts to take Hellion out. He can take Hellion out in many ways. ie phase into hellion to knock him out, fly through him phased, he could temporary blind Hellion, even punching him would do it as Hellion has no durability beyond a normal human, as shown when he was nearly killed by Lady Deathsrike.
- I have described some good examples (strategies) in my original post that would explain how he could take Hellion out.
- With 24 hours prep, knowledge of the area, and there being a population, the Vision has many options on how to deal with Hellion. He will be prepared and ready to deal with anything Hellion can bring while Hellion won't have the same advantage.

WINNER VISION

[Phaedrus45]

Debating Is Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Kane

*Vision - (Good debate. I almost went with Hellion.)

*Cannonball

*Wild Thing - (Wild Thing not only knows everything about Wolverine, but she knows information that even HE doesn't know about himself. I think the shock of seeing his future daughter will be quite an impact on him, and we know Logan's weaknesses is young gals, like Jubilee and Kitty Pryde.)

[Midnight Ice]

Kane
Vision
Cannonball
Wolverine-Talk about going back and forth...Wild Thing could be one of the few people to take Wolverine out this first round, but in the end, I'll give it to experience.

[POWdER-man]

Vision
Karolina Dean
Cannonball
...
This match is very close...I will have to give the advantage to...
Wild Thing (knowing exactly who your opponent is, their fighting style, and to be trained by him...yeah)

[random_havoc]

Kane - I don't think Karolina's experienced enough to win this on her own
Vision
Cannonball
Wolverine - Excellent debate on both sides

[Harlekin]

Kane
Vision
Cannonball
Wolverine - Everybody's talking about how hard this would be for him, to fight his future daughter. It won't be hard for her?

[Ahura Mazda]

Kane - good debate but I do not see her winning this after having subscribed to the Runaways

Vision - In a different league

Wolverine - I still think he would put her down

Cannonball

[JewishHobbit]

Wild Thing
Cannonball
Kane
Vision

[Hellstormer]

Wild Thing

Kane

Vision

Cannonball

[Hellstormer]

*double*

[wiegeabo]

Kane (Weapon X)

Vision

Red Skull

Wolverine

[Vanguard07]

Cannonball
Kane
Wild Thing (Her psychic claws provide a non-lethal take down, thus she'd have no moral objections to going all out on her pappy. Logan wouldn't have that edge)
Hellion

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

*Kane-Weapon X defeats Karolina Dean 9-1

*Vision defeats Hellion 9-1

*Cannonball defeats Red Skull 9-1

*Wolverine ties with Wild Thing 5-5

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Tyrannus (PHAEDRUS45) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrannus_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/tyrannus.jpg

vs.

Genesis (HELLSTORMER) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Genesis)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/genesis-1.jpg

Match 2:

War Machine (VANGUARD07) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Machine)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/warmachine.jpg

vs.

Venom-Mac Gargan (WITCHKING) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Venom_(Mac_Gargan))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/venom-1.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Ruckus (PHAEDRUS45) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruckus_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/ruckus.jpg

vs.

Nightcrawler-AoA (JEWISHHOBBIT) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightcrawler_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/kurtaoa.jpg

Match 2:

Doctor Octopus (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Octopus)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/dococt.jpg

vs.

Ord (PHAEDRUS45) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ord_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/ord.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

REMATCH:

Wolverine (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/wolverines.jpg

vs.

Wild Thing (HELLSTORMER) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Thing_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/wildthing.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Location: Overworld

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalon_(Marvel_Comics))

This will be the Island of Avalon in the Overworld. This is nighttime...but, I'm not even sure how night works in the Overworld.

[Phaedrus45]

Debating May Begin!!!

[Phaedrus45]

Opening Debate: Ruckus vs. Nightcrawler-AoA

Before coming to the location, Ruckus grabs many types of sound devices, i.e. firecrackers, blowhorns, etc... He knows who Nightcrawler is; but, obviously doesn't realize this Nightcrawler is pretty damn ruthless. Of course, this is a different world version of Nightcrawler, and there is no indication that he'll have any information about Ruckus.

Walking around the island of Avalon, Ruckus keeps his guard up. He thinks to himself, "Why in the hell am I wearing yellow? Oh, well, it's night time...I don't show up that well." He suddenly stops, thinking, "WAIT! I really can't see Nightcrawler, since he's good at hiding in shadows!!!"

Ruckus decides the best advantage is to draw Nightcrawler to his location. Grabbing one of his firecrackers...with a very long fuse...he lights it, and quickly walks away to a hidden location. BOOM! (These aren't you normal, little firecrackers...these are M80's!) The amplification of the sound has him ready. It's all built up.

Sure enough, "BAMPFF!," Nightcrawler appears. Instantly, he screams in Nightcrawler's direction, causing him to flail backwards.

Nightcrawler "BAMPFF's" again...right behind Ruckus, slicing his head clean off with his two swords. As Ruckus' head falls to the ground, the look of shock appears in his eyes, and the last sounds of a failing scream in his throats disappears in the night air.

Winner = Not Ruckus :csad::csad::csad:

Yep, I hate to do it for a second time, but even I know that Ruckus doesn't stand a chance against Nightcrawler...especially one who is willing to kill his foe with no qualms.

[Phaedrus45]

Opening Argument: Ord vs. Doctor Octopus

Bios:

Ord:

*Ord is a green-skinned alien possessed of enhanced senses, durability, and speed, the full extents of which are unknown.

*Ord can fly.

*Enhanced hearing

*Ord is a formidable hand-to-hand combatant, having decades of fighting experience.

*Ord wears a suit of body armor. He also wields a circular weapon with barbed blades that he claims can cut through any substance on Earth.

Doctor Octopus:

*Octavius is a genius in the field of atomic physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_physics), and he holds a Ph. D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy#United_States) in nuclear science. A brilliant engineer and inventor, he is also a superb strategist and a charismatic leader.

*Due to exposure to atomic radiation, Doctor Octopus has the ability to control his four artificial tentacle arms (even when they are not connected to him, he can also control them over vast distances). These arms are capable of lifting several tons, provided that at least one arm is used to support his body. The reaction time and agility of his mechanical appendages is enhanced far beyond the range attainable for normal human musculature. The arms allow Octavius to move rapidly over any terrain and to scale vertical surfaces and ceilings.

Now, neither character will know about the other, and neither will know the location. In terms of powers and abilities, as explained by the Official Handbook, Doctor Octopus has only one advantage over Ord: Intelligence. Below are the stats:

Doc Octopus:
Intelligence = 5
Strength = 2
Speed = 3
Durability = 2
Energy Projection = 1
Fighting Skills = 4

Ord:
Intelligence = 4
Strength = 4
Speed = 3
Durability = 6
Energy Projection = 1
Fighting Skills = 6

So, even by Marvel's standard, Doc Octopus isn't far superior in Intelligence, as they are separated by a point. (One point can be a big difference...but, I'd be more worried if a) Doc Octopus knew my opponent or b) the degree of difference was greater.)

The important factors in this match-up for Ord is as follows:

1) Ord's fighting skills really surpasses Doctor Octopus'.

2) Ord has enhanced hearing, which will help him locate his target much easier than Doc Octopus will locate him.

3) Ord has his circular weapon with barbed blades that can cut through any substance on Earth; and, that means big trouble for Doc Octopus. Once Ord cuts through one of his tentacles, Doc Octopus will feel it. Ord, unlike Spider-Man, has no trouble taking down his opponent with a killing blow, and can care less if Doc Octopus is physically or mentally hurt with the mutilation of his tentacles.

4) One thing Doc Octopus is not is durable. Taking a look at the stats, Ord blows Doc Octopus away.

Winner = Ord

[Phaedrus45]

Opening Argument: Tyrannus vs. Genesis

This seems to be a difficult match to argue, because there is not an abundance of information about either character on the internet. Luckily, I found bios for both characters in the Official Handbook, and will present them below in the bios.

Tyrannus:

*Tyrannus has several psychic powers which allow him to control the minds of others, as well as drain their life force, and communicate with telepathy. He is also vitually immortal while he has access to the Fountain Of Youth.

*Tyrannus has been merged with the Flame Of Life, his body thus composed of flame-like energy. (This Flame Of Life could consume the life force of others to increase his own powers. It can generate force fields, cause seismic tremors, re-shape the flame into a fist or form large, powerful, animated limbs, and release powerful bursts of radioactive flame or force.)

*Tyrannus' weapon of choice in battle is a sword, but he has access to many inventions of the Deviants, including laser guns, tanks, and several sophisticated robots.

Genesis:

*Genesis was a mutant with the ability to form a psionic link with another consciousness and visually project those memories as solid holograms.

*Genesis was trained in military tactics, guerilla warfare, and other combat disciplines.

*Genesis wore personal body armor from his era.

*Genesis occassionally employed advanced weaponry also from his era.

Needless to say, neither character knows about the other or the location. From what I put up above, it appears to me that Tyrannus is hands-down the better, more powerful opponent. Genesis' most powerful ability is his psionic link with another character; but, as Tyrannus has "several psychic powers which allow him to control the minds of others, as well as drain their life force, and communicate with telepathy," I think this power is completely taken away.

Winner = Tyrannus

[JewishHobbit]

Opening Debate: Ruckus vs. Nightcrawler-AoA

Before coming to the location, Ruckus grabs many types of sound devices, i.e. firecrackers, blowhorns, etc... He knows who Nightcrawler is; but, obviously doesn't realize this Nightcrawler is pretty damn ruthless. Of course, this is a different world version of Nightcrawler, and there is no indication that he'll have any information about Ruckus.

Walking around the island of Avalon, Ruckus keeps his guard up. He thinks to himself, "Why in the hell am I wearing yellow? Oh, well, it's night time...I don't show up that well." He suddenly stops, thinking, "WAIT! I really can't see Nightcrawler, since he's good at hiding in shadows!!!"

Ruckus decides the best advantage is to draw Nightcrawler to his location. Grabbing one of his firecrackers...with a very long fuse...he lights it, and quickly walks away to a hidden location. BOOM! (These aren't you normal, little firecrackers...these are M80's!) The amplification of the sound has him ready. It's all built up.

Sure enough, "BAMPFF!," Nightcrawler appears. Instantly, he screams in Nightcrawler's direction, causing him to flail backwards.

Nightcrawler "BAMPFF's" again...right behind Ruckus, slicing his head clean off with his two swords. As Ruckus' head falls to the ground, the look of shock appears in his eyes, and the last sounds of a failing scream in his throats disappears in the night air.

Winner = Not Ruckus :csad::csad::csad:

Yep, I hate to do it for a second time, but even I know that Ruckus doesn't stand a chance against Nightcrawler...especially one who is willing to kill his foe with no qualms.

Cool.

And just for the sake of putting up a debate:

Nightcrawler (AoA) vs Ruckus

Nightcrawler BAMFs and takes Ruckus' head off before speaking in German, cursing Apocalypse, doing a little dance, and disappearing into the night.

Winner - Nightcrawler

[JewishHobbit]

When I first read location I thought it was Breakworld. I thought, man, Ord really lucked out this week! Then I saw I was wrong.

[wiegeabo]

Dr. Octopus vs Ord

Looking over Ord's powerset, which is a good one, I realized the Ock can win this despite how good Ord sounds. Let's take a look:

Superhuman strength speed and endurance
Enhanced durability
Enhanced hearing
Highly skilled in use of bladed weapons
Flight
Master martial artist


Guess what, those first three powers? Spider-Man has them. And we all know how well Ock has fared against Spidey over the years, beating more than a few times. Someone with these abilities is not going to be anything new to Ock.

The use of bladed weapons obviously doesn't apply to the Spidey comparison. But Octavius. But Otto's tentacles can protect him and give him a range advantage.

And speaking of those tentacles, how strong are they? Well, his current harness was strong enough to beat down on the Hulk. So they should be more than enough to fight Ord. He could smash them into his opponent, deflect his attacks, slice him up with the pincers, wrap him up and crush him, or be nasty, grab each limb, and rip him apart.

Ock's tentacles also help negate some of Ord's flight advantage because he can use them to climb.

And I haven't even touched on Ock's intellect yet. With his intelligence and resources, Ock could come up with any number of offensive and defensive weapons, and then just carry them into the fight on his tentacles.

Doctor Octopus is a threat to be taken seriously, but since Ord won't have any information on him, he won't be able to prepare for him.


Doctor Octopus wins

[Phaedrus45]

Dr. Octopus vs Ord

Looking over Ord's powerset, which is a good one, I realized the Ock can win this despite how good Ord sounds. Let's take a look:

Superhuman strength speed and endurance
Enhanced durability
Enhanced hearing
Highly skilled in use of bladed weapons
Flight
Master martial artist


Guess what, those first three powers? Spider-Man has them. And we all know how well Ock has fared against Spidey over the years, beating more than a few times. Someone with these abilities is not going to be anything new to Ock.

The big difference between Spidey and Ord is very significant, and one I pointed out in my opening argument: Ord won't care about inflicting pain or death on his opponent. Also, Spidey is one of those guys who always seems to be swinging through the city, and suddenly Doc Octopus (who's the only one who prepped for the match) gives him an ultra-beating. In this case, those top three things on the list give Ord an advantage, because he'll be VERY aware.


The use of bladed weapons obviously doesn't apply to the Spidey comparison. But Octavius. But Otto's tentacles can protect him and give him a range advantage.

And speaking of those tentacles, how strong are they? Well, his current harness was strong enough to beat down on the Hulk. So they should be more than enough to fight Ord. He could smash them into his opponent, deflect his attacks, slice him up with the pincers, wrap him up and crush him, or be nasty, grab each limb, and rip him apart.

Ock's tentacles also help negate some of Ord's flight advantage because he can use them to climb.

Those tentacles won't be much good when Ord is like a "Slice-O-Matic." One slice, and Doc Octopus will be writhing in pain. Best of all, since Doctor Octopus doesn't know a thing about Ord, he will not suspect that Ord has a weapon that can slice through them. OUCH! Once in pain, Doc Octopus won't have the ability to be very effective in the battle...he'll just be thinking of how he can flee from a superior fighter. (Superior, as in the Fighting Ability rankings from the Official Handbook.)

Also, with Ord, he's got such good fighting skills, if he's in flight, he'll see Doc Octopus climbing a building and know not to get too close if he doesn't want to.

And I haven't even touched on Ock's intellect yet. With his intelligence and resources, Ock could come up with any number of offensive and defensive weapons, and then just carry them into the fight on his tentacles.

Doctor Octopus is a threat to be taken seriously, but since Ord won't have any information on him, he won't be able to prepare for him.


Here is the thing...we don't see Doctor Octopus really bringing any weapons into his fights, except his tentacles. He's never carried any kind of gun or anything I've ever know. So, in making an "offensive or defensive weapon," I'd want to see those weapons shown in comics.

And, yes, Doc Octopus is intelligent...but, not so significant as to have a huge advantage over his opponent.

Winner = Ord

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/88997-62240-tyler-dayspring.jpg
Genesis VS. Tyrannus

Neither of these characters will have much going for them. Information will be scarce at best, but Genesis has the advantage because he has access to intense weaponry and the ability to view all of Tyrannus memories including everything he would know. Genesis will probably utilize guerilla warfare to take down an enemy who doesn't appear that threatening.

Winner=Genesis

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/138700-115861-wild-thing.JPG
Round Two: Wild Thing VS. Wolverine

This is a rematch that might seem to favor Wolverine who has a better idea of who he's up against, but it also benefits Wild Thing because she knows how her father's fighting style was at the time and she can compare it to how it has improved in the future and also utilize some of her mother's techniques. Wolverine won't be able to do much since it would have seemed like he was just fighting himself. He may change tactics slightly, but Wild Thing can call in a whole different side of her legacy.

Her best bet in fighting will now be to just go head in, Wolverine will probably do the same since they've already studied eachother. Wolverine will expect Wild Thing to switch her fighting style a little, but he has no idea how she'll incorporate a different family member. Again, because Wild Thing comes from a future time she's use to fighting from a Wolverine who had YEARS to change and evolve his fighting style, not to mention her mother's fighting style as well.

Winner=Wild Thing

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal: Genesis vs. Tyrannus



Neither of these characters will have much going for them. Information will be scarce at best, but Genesis has the advantage because he has access to intense weaponry and the ability to view all of Tyrannus memories including everything he would know. Genesis will probably utilize guerilla warfare to take down an enemy who doesn't appear that threatening.





I'll just repoint out Tyrannus' powers:

*Tyrannus has several psychic powers which allow him to control the minds of others, as well as drain their life force, and communicate with telepathy. He is also vitually immortal while he has access to the Fountain Of Youth.

The idea that Genesis will be able to access Tyrannus' memory doesn't quite work. When it comes to psychic powers, Tyrannus appears far superior, hands down.


*Tyrannus has been merged with the Flame Of Life, his body thus composed of flame-like energy. (This Flame Of Life could consume the life force of others to increase his own powers. It can generate force fields, cause seismic tremors, re-shape the flame into a fist or form large, powerful, animated limbs, and release powerful bursts of radioactive flame or force.)

Genesis can use his guerilla warfare all he wants; because against Tyrannus' Flame Of Life, he's in a hell of a lot of trouble.

*Tyrannus' weapon of choice in battle is a sword, but he has access to many inventions of the Deviants, including laser guns, tanks, and several sophisticated robots.

This just shows that whatever guerilla warfare Genesis has, it appears Tyrannus is just as capable. All in all, Genesis' powers and abilities are at a much lower level than his opponent.

Winner = Tyrannus

[wiegeabo]

Wolverine vs Wild Thing

The rematch should help both fighters. But Logan is going to get the better of their prior encounter. There's probably not much Wild Thing could gain from the last fight. She's been training with her mother and father for years and seen many of his moves.

The thing is, Wolverine literally has decades of experience to draw from in a variety of fighting styles. There's no way he could have taught his daughter everything he knows, and therefore will be able to surprise her with moves she's never seen.

And the surprise of Wild being his daughter from the future will have worn off with the match. He'll know the way she fights and uses her claws. And he'll know he'll have to throw the book out and come up with some new stuff that his future self couldn't have taught her.

Essentially, this boils down to a skilled fighter with decades of experience against many of the best fighters the Marvel universe has, versus a young girl who may have been trained by the best, but isn't.


Wolverine wins

[wiegeabo]

The big difference between Spidey and Ord is very significant, and one I pointed out in my opening argument: Ord won't care about inflicting pain or death on his opponent. Also, Spidey is one of those guys who always seems to be swinging through the city, and suddenly Doc Octopus (who's the only one who prepped for the match) gives him an ultra-beating. In this case, those top three things on the list give Ord an advantage, because he'll be VERY aware.

Ock's not going to have any problems inflicting pain or death either. Both of these guys are going for the win, probably even the kill.

And, like you just said, Doc Ock is usually very prepped. Preparation and planning is very important to Ock. He even put together the original Secret Six and planned out every detail about the way they'd fight Spidey.



Those tentacles won't be much good when Ord is like a "Slice-O-Matic." One slice, and Doc Octopus will be writhing in pain. Best of all, since Doctor Octopus doesn't know a thing about Ord, he will not suspect that Ord has a weapon that can slice through them. OUCH! Once in pain, Doc Octopus won't have the ability to be very effective in the battle...he'll just be thinking of how he can flee from a superior fighter. (Superior, as in the Fighting Ability rankings from the Official Handbook.)

Claiming his blades can cut through anything is far from actually being able to do so. And Ock's known for making his tentacles from very durable and strong materials. Even out of adamantium once.

Also, with Ord, he's got such good fighting skills, if he's in flight, he'll see Doc Octopus climbing a building and know not to get too close if he doesn't want to.

Here is the thing...we don't see Doctor Octopus really bringing any weapons into his fights, except his tentacles. He's never carried any kind of gun or anything I've ever know. So, in making an "offensive or defensive weapon," I'd want to see those weapons shown in comics.

And, yes, Doc Octopus is intelligent...but, not so significant as to have a huge advantage over his opponent.
[/QUOTE]

Well, if Ord doesn't want to get in too close and fight, that benefits Ock as well.

As for weapons, Ock's used things like lasers, robots, and force fields before. Not sure if he'd have time to whip up some robots, but a force field would be very useful. And I recall one specific weapon that would short out electronics (sort of like an EMP thing). But when turned on a person (in this case, Spidey) it effected his brain and knocked him out. Even gave him amnesia. Ock's also used explosives to set traps, which he could do here, or use as weapons.


Doc Ock wins

[wiegeabo]

The big difference between Spidey and Ord is very significant, and one I pointed out in my opening argument: Ord won't care about inflicting pain or death on his opponent. Also, Spidey is one of those guys who always seems to be swinging through the city, and suddenly Doc Octopus (who's the only one who prepped for the match) gives him an ultra-beating. In this case, those top three things on the list give Ord an advantage, because he'll be VERY aware.

Ock's not going to have any problems inflicting pain or death either. Both of these guys are going for the win, probably even the kill.

And, like you just said, Doc Ock is usually very prepped. Preparation and planning is very important to Ock. He even put together the original Secret Six and planned out every detail about the way they'd fight Spidey.



Those tentacles won't be much good when Ord is like a "Slice-O-Matic." One slice, and Doc Octopus will be writhing in pain. Best of all, since Doctor Octopus doesn't know a thing about Ord, he will not suspect that Ord has a weapon that can slice through them. OUCH! Once in pain, Doc Octopus won't have the ability to be very effective in the battle...he'll just be thinking of how he can flee from a superior fighter. (Superior, as in the Fighting Ability rankings from the Official Handbook.)

Claiming his blades can cut through anything is far from actually being able to do so. And Ock's known for making his tentacles from very durable and strong materials. Even out of adamantium once.

Also, with Ord, he's got such good fighting skills, if he's in flight, he'll see Doc Octopus climbing a building and know not to get too close if he doesn't want to.

Here is the thing...we don't see Doctor Octopus really bringing any weapons into his fights, except his tentacles. He's never carried any kind of gun or anything I've ever know. So, in making an "offensive or defensive weapon," I'd want to see those weapons shown in comics.

And, yes, Doc Octopus is intelligent...but, not so significant as to have a huge advantage over his opponent.
[/QUOTE]

Well, if Ord doesn't want to get in too close and fight, that benefits Ock as well.

As for weapons, Ock's used things like lasers, robots, and force fields before. Not sure if he'd have time to whip up some robots, but a force field would be very useful. And I recall one specific weapon that would short out electronics (sort of like an EMP thing). But when turned on a person (in this case, Spidey) it effected his brain and knocked him out. Even gave him amnesia. Ock's also used explosives to set traps, which he could do here, or use as weapons.


Doc Ock wins

[Phaedrus45]

You sly bastard! Trying the old "double-post-so-as-to-convince-everyone-I'm-superior" move!!!

Ock's not going to have any problems inflicting pain or death either. Both of these guys are going for the win, probably even the kill.

And, like you just said, Doc Ock is usually very prepped. Preparation and planning is very important to Ock. He even put together the original Secret Six and planned out every detail about the way they'd fight Spidey.

IF Doc knew who Ord was, I'd be much more worried...but, just like when the X-Men fought him the first time (consisting of Cyclops, Emma Frost, Beast, Shadowcat, and Wolverine) and he almost took them all out, Doc Ock doesn't know this character at all.

What benefits Ord is that he can see a picture of Doc Ock and kind of get a clue as to the opponent's powers are in this tentacles. Take out the tentacles...you take out the opponent.


Claiming his blades can cut through anything is far from actually being able to do so. And Ock's known for making his tentacles from very durable and strong materials. Even out of adamantium once.

But, these are not adamantium tentacles...those were long ago destroyed...and, he simply cannot get adamantium at the drop of a hat. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd get them again. This current version is made out of titanium-steel-niobium.

As for weapons, Ock's used things like lasers, robots, and force fields before. Not sure if he'd have time to whip up some robots, but a force field would be very useful. And I recall one specific weapon that would short out electronics (sort of like an EMP thing). But when turned on a person (in this case, Spidey) it effected his brain and knocked him out. Even gave him amnesia. Ock's also used explosives to set traps, which he could do here, or use as weapons.

As mentioned, Doc Ock used all this stuff in his attempts to beat Spider-Man, who he was very familiar with. He knows absolutely nothing about Ord.

Also, these weapons were built into his tentacles, and as this is the current version of Doc Ock, he does not have them. (Now, if this was Lady Doc Ock, things might be much more difficult...it's her tentacles that have the force field and laser weapons, not Doc's.)

Now, in terms of that powerful weapon that could render any other weapon useless, and cause Spider-Man to lose his memory; there is one humongous problem with this argument. Doc Ock did not make the "Nullifier." He stole it, and Spider-Man later got it back. Doc Ock does not have it any longer, and cannot make one himself.

Winner = Ord

[Hellstormer]

Rebuttal: Wild Thing VS. Wolverine

The rematch should help both fighters. But Logan is going to get the better of their prior encounter. There's probably not much Wild Thing could gain from the last fight. She's been training with her mother and father for years and seen many of his moves.

The thing is, Wolverine literally has decades of experience to draw from in a variety of fighting styles. There's no way he could have taught his daughter everything he knows, and therefore will be able to surprise her with moves she's never seen. True he probably only taught her a more unison form of fighting instead of teaching her individual fighting styles. The previous fight will allow her to see where her dad is at and change her fighting style accordingly.


And the surprise of Wild being his daughter from the future will have worn off with the match. He'll know the way she fights and uses her claws. And he'll know he'll have to throw the book out and come up with some new stuff that his future self couldn't have taught her. It's possible, but that puts him at a huge disadvantage since he won't be able to control his fighting style.


Essentially, this boils down to a skilled fighter with decades of experience against many of the best fighters the Marvel universe has, versus a young girl who may have been trained by the best, but isn't.
The other heroes of the MC2 consider Wild Thing just as deadly as her father.

Winner=Wild Thing

[WitchKing]

Venom vs War Machine

Venom has the ablilty to lift 60 tons, can grow to an unbelieveable size, has the ability to use webs for attacks and web-slinging. He can cling to walls, and he has been known to mimic the tail of the scorpian costume. He will not stop till he has taken a bit from his adversary. Venom is almost unstoppable. This time wont be any different.

[wiegeabo]

IF Doc knew who Ord was, I'd be much more worried...but, just like when the X-Men fought him the first time (consisting of Cyclops, Emma Frost, Beast, Shadowcat, and Wolverine) and he almost took them all out, Doc Ock doesn't know this character at all.

What benefits Ord is that he can see a picture of Doc Ock and kind of get a clue as to the opponent's powers are in this tentacles. Take out the tentacles...you take out the opponent.

But, these are not adamantium tentacles...those were long ago destroyed...and, he simply cannot get adamantium at the drop of a hat. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd get them again. This current version is made out of titanium-steel-niobium.

First, preparing for Spidey proves that Ock can use prep-time effectively. And in this case, he knows not to prepare for Spidey. He'll know that he needs to prepare for someone he's never heard of (which I assume. If he can find out about Ord, then all better). This means being extra cautious and less restrictive with his plans and traps. (Instead of planning specifically for Spidey, he has to be more general in his strategies.)

As for the tenticles, while no longer adamantium, they are still an incredibly strong material. And cutting through every Earth material is a claim by Ord. Is there proof he can?


As mentioned, Doc Ock used all this stuff in his attempts to beat Spider-Man, who he was very familiar with. He knows absolutely nothing about Ord.Talked about above.


Also, these weapons were built into his tentacles, and as this is the current version of Doc Ock, he does not have them. (Now, if this was Lady Doc Ock, things might be much more difficult...it's her tentacles that have the force field and laser weapons, not Doc's.)If he built them into his tenticles once before, he can do so again. Not knowing his enemy, it'll probably be essential he does just to be safe.


Now, in terms of that powerful weapon that could render any other weapon useless, and cause Spider-Man to lose his memory; there is one humongous problem with this argument. Doc Ock did not make the "Nullifier." He stole it, and Spider-Man later got it back. Doc Ock does not have it any longer, and cannot make one himself.That's the one I was talking about. Just couldn't come up with the name.

Yes, Doc Ock stole the device from the army. But when he examined it, he new just how it worked and why it wasn't working and fixed it (or activated it, I'll have to look at the book again tonight to see which). That kind of intellect and knowledge of mechanics (he did build his arms, after all), shows that Ock can make any number of devices for the fight. Just like he's done for other enemies (mostly Spidey). Ord, on the other hand, is a fighter, but no scientist (he had to get a human scientist to help him). And Ock is more than smart enough to avoid a direct confrontation.


Doc Ock wins

[Phaedrus45]

First, preparing for Spidey proves that Ock can use prep-time effectively. And in this case, he knows not to prepare for Spidey. He'll know that he needs to prepare for someone he's never heard of (which I assume. If he can find out about Ord, then all better). This means being extra cautious and less restrictive with his plans and traps. (Instead of planning specifically for Spidey, he has to be more general in his strategies.)

But, there is no indication that he'd ever find out one bit of information about Ord.

Doc Ock is more about knowing his opponent (i.e. Spidey) and planning an attack without the opponent's knowledge. This type of tournament really takes Doc Ock out of his comfort zone, so to speak. He's a guy with big, silver arms...and, won't even know that Ord has the power of flight. Now, this type of match totally benefits Ord, because as his bio says, "Ord fought and won in many arena-style battles for the honor of being chosen to travel to Earth with a declaration of war." This is old hat for him.

Also, Ord has great intelligence, as shown in the below paragraph:

"In order to fulfill his end of the bargain, Ord secretly stole the body of Colossus, a former member of the X-Men, before it was due to be cremated. Using his advanced alien technology, Ord had Colossus restored to life and kept him prisoner for years while experimenting on him. Ultimately, Ord discovered the cure to the Legacy Virus still in Colossus’ system and presented his findings to Benetech geneticist Doctor Kavita Rao."

Doc Ock is not the only intelligent one in this match-up.

As for the tenticles, while no longer adamantium, they are still an incredibly strong material. And cutting through every Earth material is a claim by Ord. Is there proof he can?

From what I've seen, Ord is not one to over-boast his abilities. He's trained in hand-to-hand combat, is very familiar with what's gone on with the X-Men and things on Earth, and as shown, has been trained in arena-style battles. I might have a little hesitancy when it comes to adamantium, but not to his regular arms.


If he built them into his tenticles once before, he can do so again. Not knowing his enemy, it'll probably be essential he does just to be safe.

First, as pointed out, those features are with Lady Doc Ock, but they are not in Doc Ock's current tentacles. Why would he not have them currently, especially since they would make sense when fighting Spidey? When Doc Ock loses those powers, it seems he doesn't get them back. It questions how long it takes to make new tentacles with those powers and gets them attached to his body. To put it plainly, I'm fighting the current version, and the current version does not have any of those powers.

That's the one I was talking about. Just couldn't come up with the name.

Yes, Doc Ock stole the device from the army. But when he examined it, he new just how it worked and why it wasn't working and fixed it (or activated it, I'll have to look at the book again tonight to see which). That kind of intellect and knowledge of mechanics (he did build his arms, after all), shows that Ock can make any number of devices for the fight. Just like he's done for other enemies (mostly Spidey). Ord, on the other hand, is a fighter, but no scientist (he had to get a human scientist to help him). And Ock is more than smart enough to avoid a direct confrontation.

Looking at the above quote I showed about Ord, shows he's very intelligent. He brought Colossus back to life. He found the Legacy Virus in his body, and brought the findings to another scientist. So, to say he is just a fighter is very inaccurate.

As for that device, once Doc Ock had it taken away, the use and powers of it weren't available to him any longer. It shows he cannot just make a Nullifier himself. Proof of this is below:

"Ock next appeared in an attempt to steal a device known as a Nullifier, which can be used to render any weapon completely useless. Planning to use it to conquer the world, Ock stole the device at the demonstration for it. Spider-Man showed up and managed to retrieve it back after battling with Ock, but Ock escaped. Seeking a new hideout from the law, Ock rented the spare bedroom in Aunt May's house. Blissfully unaware of Ock's real sinister personality, Aunt May gladly accepted Ock as a tenant. Peter was horrified to discover Ock living in his Aunt's house. He confronted Ock and a huge battle ensued. Aunt May walked in on the two super powered foes fighting. The sight of it caused her to faint from shock. With that distraction Ock escaped. He then succeeded in stealing the Nullifier again, and was successful in raiding Stark Industries with it. Spider-Man, bitter with anger over what happened to Aunt May, confronted Ock. Ock turned the Nullifier on Spider- Man, causing him to lose his memory."

He stole it once, Spidey got it back. He didn't just make a new one with his great scientific mind; instead, he had to steal it back.


Winner = Ord

[Phaedrus45]

FYI to all voters:

As per the rules of the contest, you must have your opening debate in by Tuesday afternoon. If you don't, you are not allowed to debate your match after that time, because it doesn't give your opponent sufficient time to rebutt your argument. For this reason, you are asked to strike the opening debate presented late in the Venom vs. War Machine match.

[Phaedrus45]

Debating Is Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Tyrannus

*War Machine

*Nightcrawler

*Ord

*Wild Thing - (Nothing really swayed me either way in this rematch; so, I'll just repeat my last vote.)

[POWdER-man]

War Machine
Nightcrawler
Ord (I have to agree, if Doc Ock knew who he was facing he would be more threatening)
Tyrannus

...
Wolverine (a rematch will benefit him, no surprises this time and loads of experience)

[WitchKing]

Venom
Nightcrawler
Wolverine
Tyrannus
Ord

[Vanguard07]

Tyrannus
Warmachine
Nightcrawler
Doc Ock
Wild Thing

[random_havoc]

War Machine (I'm guessing he'd have sonics that would do the job)
Nightcrawler
Wolverine
Tyrannus
Ord

[Harlekin]

Tyrannus
Venom (MacGargan)
Nightcrawler (AoA)
Ord
Wolverine

[JewishHobbit]

Nightcrawler (AoA)
Doc Ock
Tyrannus
War Machine
Wild Thing

[Midnight Ice]

Tyrannus
War Machine
Nightcrawler
Ord
Wolverine-There would be no surprises for Wolverine on a rematch. He knows who he is facing and won't lose focus.

[Hellstormer]

Wild Thing

Genesis

Nightcrawler (AOA)

Ord

War Machine

[wiegeabo]

Tyrannus - interesting match. Probably would be a good one.

War Machine - intel about symbiotes and tech to take one out

Nightcrawler (AoA) - Ruckus could give it a good...nah. Snicker-snack, Ruckus is on his back.

Doctor Octopus

Wolverine

[Ahura Mazda]

Tyrannus

War Machine - he has the knowledge and the equipment

Nightcrawler (AoA)

Ord - I think he would be able to work through the tentacles and his would be ruthless unlike Spidey

Wolverine - a rematch will largely benefit him

[JewishHobbit]

Tyrannus defeats Genesis = 10-1

War Machine defeats Venom (Mac Gargon) = 9-2

Nightcrawler (AoA) defeats Ruckus = 11-0

Ord defeats Doctor Octopus = 8-3

Wolverine defeats Wild Thing = 7-4

[wiegeabo]

Hell of a fight, Stormer. Probably couldn't ask for a closer matchup.

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Tiger Wylde (HARLEKIN) link (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/tigerwylde.htm)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/tigerwylde.jpg

vs.

Kang (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kang_the_Conqueror)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/kang-1.jpg

Match 2:

Shaman (HELLSTORMER) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/shaman.jpg

vs.

Cardiac (HARLEKIN) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Cardiac)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/cardiac.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Vindicator (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindicator_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/vindicator.jpg

vs.

Patriot (WITCHKING) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/patriot-1.jpg

Match 2:

Halflife-Anthony Masterson (AHURAMAZDA) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halflife_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/halflife-1.jpg

vs.

Titania (MIDNIGHTICE) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titania_(Marvel_Comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/titania-1.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

LOCATION: X-Mansion

While the location was to be "Age Of Apocalypse," everything I've looked at under the name isn't well defined as a location...and, just leaving it as AoA is too vast. So, for the time being, I'm putting it at the end of the list, and going onto the next one. If we still want "AoA," I need something that is more defined.

http://xrpg.rpcommunity.com/mansion.html

This location is unoccupied, and it's daytime. It will be the most recent version, before the last destruction.

[Phaedrus45]

Debating May Begin!!!

[wiegeabo]

Vindicator vs Patriot

Patriot's is a trained super-soldier. But he's going up against someone who's also well trained. And his powers just don't stack up to Vindicator's.

As far as information flows during prep-time, Vindicator has a much better chance to learn about Patriot than the other way around. And the location doesn't help either character.


Vindicator can pretty much control this fight. She can take to the air and avoid Patriot's attacks. And can deflect any attacks he manages to land with her forcefield. While safely in the air, she can liquify all the rock around the mansion into lava.

As for attacks:

She can bring the mansion down, eliminating any advantage Patriot could possibly use it for (which really shouldn't be any).

She can surround Patriot in a moat of lava to large for him to jump across, and keep him trapped there until the heat makes him pass out.

She also has super strength and speed and can fight with in a hand-to-hand match. But she'll avoid that. Why give him the opportunity to use his shield or throwing stars when she can keep a safe distance and defeat him with relatively little effort.

Vindicator wins

[wiegeabo]

Kang the Conqueror vs Tiger Wylde

A classic case of, whatever Tiger Wylde can do, Kang can do better.

Kang has centuries of technological and scientific knowledge above Tiger Wylde. And Kang is well versed in 21st (20th) century technology having visited and dealt with it so much. Not only does this mean Kang can take over Tiger's cybernetic systems, but he can also take over the Mansion's systems and use them against Tiger. (If Tiger tries the same thing, I have no doubt that Kang's technology will trump Tiger's.)

So, let's look at a physical battle, if it were to come down to one.

Tiger has super strength and durability. And can fire energy blasts from his hands.

Kang is a genius and skilled combantant, his armor not only protects him, but amplifies his abilities, and contains any number of weapons and defenses. Kang can protect himself with forcefields and attack with energy blasts.

Simply put, Kang just far outclasses Tiger in pretty much every way.


Kang wins

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7658/361130-34281-shaman.jpg

Shaman VS. Cardiac

This is a somewhat interesting match because these are two very different superhumans. Neither of them will be able to get info on eachother so they're going in blind, but Shaman has the advantage just because of the sheer variety of his powers. Shaman carries a medicine bag which he can pull out just about anything he needs. Cardiac is a typical superhuman (strengths, reflexes, etc...). Cardiac also has a Vibranium mesh armor and concussive blasts.

As far as the fight Shamn will begin by observing his opponent. Shaman is a very intelligent man and will see his opponent doesn't have much going for him. Shaman will probably change the weather into something that gives him more of an advantage (he's done this in the past) and than he'll plant an illusion in Cardiac's head (something along the lines of needing a heart charge). From there it will just be a matter of forcing Cardiac to sleep (he's done this in the past also).

Winner=Shaman

[Ahura Mazda]

Bracket 8

Match 2:

Halflife-Anthony Masterson (AHURAMAZDA) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halflife_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/halflife-1.jpg

vs.

Titania (MIDNIGHTICE) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titania_(Marvel_Comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/titania-1.jpg


This could have been an interesting match but for one thing. Half life is very experienced against strong and better fighters then Titania and ussually can puul out a win.

Half-Life is a vampire-like creature who drains life energy from living beings in order to sustain himself. He is capable of rendering even very powerful beings like the Hulk very weak. In his natural state, he looked like a zombie, but when he absorbs a life he temporarily appears young and handsome.

When he drains people he also gains their strength. So basically he would drain Titania making her weaker and him stronger until she withers away while he appears young, handsome and powerful.

Winner - Half-Life

[Midnight Ice]

Half-life VS Titania

Ok, from what I have read about Half-life, it seems he can only absorb Gamma energy to make him stronger, something that Titania does not have. If he drains any life force from her, he will not get stronger. Even if he can absorb anything, he has to get in close to do that, in which case Titania can take him out with a single punch.

Another stategy would be for Titania to collapse the entire mansion on top of Half-life. If she does this, Half-life wouldn't even get a chance to drain anything, he would simply just be crushed.

Winner: Titania

[Ahura Mazda]

Half-life VS Titania -



Ok, from what I have read about Half-life, it seems he can only absorb Gamma energy to make him stronger, something that Titania does not have. If he drains any life force from her, he will not get stronger.

You are referring to wikipedia which is inexact.

This is what happenned in the Hulk comics:

Half-life crawls out of a graveto meeth the person who was waiting for him, a disguised Leader. The next night, the Hulk is leaping through the desert when he suddenly starts to feel weak. The Hulk realizes that whatever is making him weak is coming from a jeep driving towards him. He lands and claps his hands, causing the jeep to turn over. The Hulk is surprised to see the Half-Life creature step out and announce himself. The Hulk runs up and knocks Half-Life in the face, knocking his lower jaw off. He picks it back up and replaces back on his face. He jumps on the Hulk, gripping him, and tells him how he used to be a teacher and have friends but now he is this thing made from mud and slime, absorbing radiation and it has driven him crazy. Half-life continues to draw the Hulk's strength until the Hulk manages to dislodge Half-life's torso from him. He then thows the still attached arms and legs in all directions. The Hulk steps back far enough that Half-Life can't draw any more strength from him and asks him what he is. Half-life explains how he only comes alive at night and draws strength by absorbing the radiation from other people and he was hoping if he drew enough from the Hulk, he would be able to live during the day. The arms and legs start to crawl back to the torso of Half-Life.

He doesn't absorb just gamma but every type of radiation from people. And it all just makes him stronger.

Even if he can absorb anything, he has to get in close to do that, in which case Titania can take him out with a single punch.

Even an enraged Hulk punch cannot finish half life because his body parts function independantly and just regroup.

Titania cannot defeat him given she cannot throw him out of the battlefield and every second she is near he will drain her.

Lets not forget that all her strength comes from radiation as well.

Another stategy would be for Titania to collapse the entire mansion on top of Half-life. If she does this, Half-life wouldn't even get a chance to drain anything, he would simply just be crushed.

Again, crushing him would do nothing as he instantly reforms and could drag himself out of the rubble. She on the other hand will get weaker and weaker as she attacks him.


Winner: Half-Life

[Harlekin]

FINAL DEBATES: TIGER WYLDE VS. KANG AND SHAMAN VS. CARDIAC

Imma concede both these matches. I could put time and energy into a convincing case and where I normally would do so, this season I'm saving my energies for the characters I actually care about or think have a decent shot of winning. Kang vs. Shaman should be an interesting enough match on its own.

WINNERS=KANG AND SHAMAN

[Phaedrus45]

Debates Are Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[POWdER-man]

Kang
Shaman
Vindicator
Half-Life

[random_havoc]

Kang
Shaman
Vindicator
Half-Life

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Kang

*Shaman

*Vindicator

*Halflife

[JewishHobbit]

Vindicator - Always hate voting against a Young Avenger.
Kang - I wanted to see Tiger win :csad:
Shaman - I REALLY wanted to see Cardiac win :mad:. I Love Cardiac!
Half Life

[Midnight Ice]

Kang
Shaman
Vindicator
Titania

[Vanguard07]

Kang
Shaman
Vindicator
Half-life

[wiegeabo]

Kang

Shaman

Vindicator

Titania - If he can only drain radiation (as even AH implies), it won't do him any good against Titania since doesn't store radiation like Hulk, she was just changed by it. She might not be able to kill him, but she can stop him.

[Hellstormer]

Kang

Shaman

Vindicator

Half-Life

[Harlekin]

Kang
Shaman
Vindicator
Halflife

[Ahura Mazda]

Very little 'debating' in this thread

Kang

Shaman

Vindicator

Half-Life

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

*Kang defeats Tiger Wylde 10-0

*Shaman defeats Cardiac 10-0

*Vindicator defeats Patriot 10-0

*Halflife defeats Titania 8-2

[JewishHobbit]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Mandarin (Weigeabo) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mandarin)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/Mandarincom.jpg

vs.

Shatterstar (Vanguard07) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Shatterstar)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/shatterstar.jpg

Match 2:

Cable (Weigeabo) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Cable)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/Cable_head.jpg

vs.

Krystalin (Harlekin) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Krystalin_(2099))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/krystalin.jpg

[JewishHobbit]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Kitty Pryde (Phaedrus45) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Pryde,_Kitty)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/kitty.jpg

vs.

Mercury (Midnight Ice) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mercury_(Cessily_Kincaid))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/mercury.jpg

Match 2:

Vulcan (Ahura Mazda) link (http://www.marvel.com/universe/Vulcan_(Gabriel_Summers))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/Vulcan.jpg

vs.

Skybolt (Ahura Mazda) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_(comics))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/Skybolt.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Location: Empire State University

This location is occupied by faculty, students, workers, and any other type of person who'd normally be on campus. This is nighttime; but, remember that most Universities are well-lit; so, I expect this would be the case with ESU.

[Phaedrus45]

Debating May Begin!!!

[wiegeabo]

Mandarin vs Shatterstar

Two skilled warriors going into combat. This will turn out to be a heck of a match. But, while Shatterstar relies on his combat skills in a fight, Mandarin can not only use his own skills, but the powers within his ten rings.

Another issues is the campus being populated. Shatterstar is a hero, at the very least he'll avoid injuring innocents. At most, actively protect them. Mandarin has no such qualms, and playing the part of hero will only serve to distract Shatterstar, giving Mandarin another edge.

Various things Mandarin can do:

If they're in the building, Mandarin can set the whole thing ablaze, bringing the structure down on Shatterstar.

He could freeze Shatterstar in place, or at least ice up the battleground, making more difficult for Shatterstar to maneuver.

He could electrocute Shatterstar. Very effective in a wet environment, say, if the fire sprinklers were on because the building was on fire.

Mandarin could whip up a tornado.

Mandarin could blind Shatterstar using his black light ring, eliminating Shatterstar's ability to fight Mandarin or effectively protect himself. Leaving him open to all the other ring attacks, including those not mentioned like disintegration.


Mandarin just has too many long-range attacks. And Shatterstar is going to have a very tough time getting in close. And even in a close fight, Shatterstar will find a very skilled opponent. One whose body is strong enough to crush Iron Man's armor, much less take a sword strike if one is landed.

Now, Shatterstar does have one distance attack. He can send shockwaves through his blades. But this is rarely done because it significantly drains him. So if he misses, Mandarin will have an even easier time winning this fight.

There are just too many ways for Mandarin to take this one. And only some of them have been touched on.


Mandarin wins

[wiegeabo]

Cable vs Krystalin

Krystalin can create crystals from minerals in the air and control their structure, building weapons and other things from them.

Cable has massive amounts of telekinesis, telepathy, and advanced weapons from the far future. Plus he's a battle-hardened warrior and master strategist and tactician.


Honestly, Cable doesn't even need to be around Krystalin to end this fight. He has her out-gunned, out-skilled, and out-powered. Her crystal weapons won't hold up against his guns or tk. He can put a tk shield around himself to protect from attacks. And if she tries to encase him, he can use the tk to free himself, or just attack her without even needing to escape his encasement.

She's not really much of a challenge for Cable who was born to take out powerhouses like Apocalypse.


Cable wins

[Phaedrus45]

Opening Debate: Kitty vs. Mercury

Location is a draw, because neither opponent will cause anyone any harm...except maybe themselves.

Experience totally sides with Kitty. She's been an X-Man much, much longer, and she's trained in not just using her power to it's fullest extent, but also in other fighting methods, not just relying on her powers.

Getting information on the other would seem like a draw; but, Kitty would have access to all Xavier files; Mercury wouldn't. If she needs a weakness found out, Kitty can find it. Mercury cannot. For that matter, Kitty is a technological genius, and will know about her location well, and what can be used there for her advantage.

Bios:

Kitty:

*Kitty Pryde is a mutant with the ability to “phase” through solid matter by shifting her atoms through the spaces between the atoms of the object through which she is moving. Kitty can phase her clothing along with herself, and through practice has learned to phase other objects and people without harm to them.

*Kitty can phase part or all of her body through another living being without harm to herself, though the other being can be rendered unconscious as a result. Kitty also has the potential to kill another being by phasing them into a solid object and then releasing them, causing them to solidify whilst still within the object.

*Kitty can also walk on air whilst phasing. Kitty has trained herself to reflexively assume a phased state at any indication of danger, such as a loud noise like a gunshot, in order to protect herself.

*Kitty possesses moderate expertise of the martial arts of the Japanese ninja and samurai.

*Kitty is also a genius in the computer sciences, and is highly skilled in the design and use of computer hardware.

Mercury:

*Body made of non-toxic, malleable bio-mercury; shapeshifting.


To me, all indicators show Kitty should have this match, mainly do to knowing her enemy better than her enemy has a chance of knowing her, knowing the location, being unable to be effected by Mercury, and using her genius and intellect to know how to combat someone made of Mercury. (Mainly, electricity, which there will be an abundance of.)

Winner = Kitty

[Ahura Mazda]

Vulcan vs Skybolt


Skybolt copmes up against Vulcan who he knows nothing about and asks Vulcan if he is a fan of Spock? Vulcan gets angry and incinerates him using his mastery of the energy spectrum.

Winner - Vulcan

[Midnight Ice]

Kitty VS Mercury

You know, I've never done this, and it almost pains me to do so, but given I am putting this up kinda late and this is my most lopsided match this week, I will concede this match. Kitty really does outclass Mercury here. I kinda thought that Kitty's phasing wouldn't bother or hurt Mercury but couldn't find any proof.


Winner: Kitty Pride

[Harlekin]

OPENING ARGUMENT: KRYSTALIN VS. CABLE

This could've been a cooler match. But I'm afraid Krystalin has three definite advantages: range, defense and actually posessing powers. Cable, at the cut-off point of this contest, is powerless and has only a big gun and fighting skills to rely on.

He might as well throw out the gun immediately, and most of his other weapons. Not only should Krystalin's shields be sufficient enough to defend herself, the area is populated. Cable wouldn't take the chance of an innocent being hurt.

What does it come down to then? Range. Krystalin can just search out Cable and take him down from a distance. Her shields protect her in case he manages to whip something up and she could even encase Cable.

WINNER=KRYSTALIN

[Harlekin]

EDIT: So good, I had to post it twice.

[wiegeabo]

Debates Are Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[POWdER-man]

Mandarin
Krystalin
( woops, I changed my mind in the last minute...I was thinking originally Cable, but Harl's debate convinced me)
Kitty
Vulcan

woops....sorry...

[JewishHobbit]

Krystalin I hadn't thought about it until Harlekin brought it up but Cable is pretty close to powerless as of the cut off point and we never gave a specific time for him, so this is true. And being that Krystalin's powers have often shielded against lazer and firepower, she does have a great level of defense against him. His tactical mind and willingness to go further to win does pose a threat but I think she can quickly take him out before he can utilize those.
Vulcan Sucks. I really liked Skybolt. He was my favorate character in New Mutants but against Vulcan he's lightweight and it'd be stupid to take him over Vulcan.
Mandarin Shatterstar had a real shot here. I hate that he wasn't debated. I could actually even see him winning.
Kitty Pryde

[JewishHobbit]

Powder... you have both Cable and Krystalin voted for when they're opponants. You missed the Mandarin/Shatterstar match.

[Harlekin]

Mandarin
Krystalin
Kitty Pryde
Vulcan

[POWdER-man]

Powder... you have both Cable and Krystalin voted for when they're opponants. You missed the Mandarin/Shatterstar match.

Yeah my fault, when I changed my mind just before voting, I accidentally removed the wrong the name.

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Mandarin Shatterstar is an underrated character, and he had a good chance of upsetting Mandarin. But, without a debate...

*Krystalin Wow...changed my vote quickly, especially when there was no rebuttal. Sure, the debate was a bit late...but, Harl squeaked it in just in time.

*Kitty Pryde

*Vulcan OMG! Kitty has to face Vulcan next??!!??

[wiegeabo]

Mandarin

Cable

Kitty Pryde

Vulcan

[Midnight Ice]

Mandarin
Krystalin
Vulcan
Kitty

[random_havoc]

Mandarin
Krystalin
Vulcan
Kitty

[Phaedrus45]

Voting Is Over!!!

Final Results:

Mandarin defeats Shatterstar 7-0

Krystalin defeats Cable 6-1

Kitty Pryde defeats Mercury 7-0

Vulcan defeats Skybolt 7-0

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Silver Samurai (VANGUARD07) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Samurai)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/silversamurai.jpg

vs.

Random (WIEGEABO) link (http://www.mutanthigh.com/random.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/random-1.jpg

Match 2:

Pete Wisdom (VANGUARD07) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Wisdom)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/petewisdom.jpg

vs.

Spider-Girl (HARLEKIN) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Girl)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/spider-girl.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Cerise (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerise_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/cerise.jpg

vs.

Morlun (WIEGEABO) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlun)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/morlun.jpg

Match 2:

Jesse Bedlam (HARLEKIN) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedlam_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/jesse.jpg

vs.

Black Panther (MIDNIGHTICE) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/blackpanther.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Debating May Begin!

Location: Alcatraz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatraz_Island

Nothing special about this, from what I understand, in relation to the Marvel Universe. Consider this the same Alcatraz that you'd visit in our universe.

It's daytime...it's unoccupied.

[wiegeabo]

Random vs Silver Samurai

Location might give a tactical edge to Random because he can form is body into long range weapons and attack from the high ground. On the other hand, by teleporting, the Samurai can mostly negate this advantage.

It's unlikely either will learn about the other in prep-time. So they're going into this one blind.


Power-wise, Random has a huge advantage. Random has long range attacks by morphing his body, and can also create close range weapons out of himself. And when the fight gets up close so the Samurai can use his mutant power, Random's power will kick in and negate it. Essentially, the Samurai is left with just his training and skill as a warrior.

Of course, that's nothing to laugh it. The Samurai is a master fighter, and with his teleportation ring, he becomes even more dangerous.

But being just a mass of protoplasm, there's not much the Samurai can do to hurt him. Eventually the Samurai will tire, or Random will bring the prison down around him. Or Random will get in some shots (even the most highly trained tend to get hit), and if the teleportation ring is damaged or runs out of power. The Samurai's fighting ability will be even further hindered because he is missing a hand (Wolverine sliced it off after M-Day).


Random wins

[wiegeabo]

Cerise vs Morlun

I'm actually surprising myself and favoring Cerise in this one. I don't know if she'd actually be able to beat Morlun, but her abilities may serve her better in future rounds.

However, Morlun is a beast. He's top tier in strength and durability. Possibly even rivaling Hulk and Thor (if Spider-Man's claim is true). And once he makes contact with his opponent, he can not only track them anywhere, he can drain their lifeforce to increase his own powers.


Not me wins. Because I think I could have gotten these two through one or two rounds against different opponents. :(

[Midnight Ice]

Jesse Bedlam VS Blank Panther

I don't think these characters would get much info on each other, so neither would know too much about what was in store. Black Panther may have some info about Jesse in his vast computer network, but I'm not sure how much or how well known Jesse would be. I assume Jesse would have the general knowledge about Black Panther anyone would have in the Marvel Universe.

The location favors BP, there are many places for him to use his stealth and hide and plenty of places to attack from. BP's reflexes and fighting abilities are too much for Jesse to beat, and thats assuming he isn't knocked out before he even knows what is happening.

Winner: Black Panther

[Harlekin]

OPENING ARGUMENT: SPIDER-GIRL VS. PETE WISDOM

I love Pete Wisdom, he's a cheeky bastard, but he's outmatched here. His powers are awesome but physically, he's nothing to write home about. Spider-Girl can casually track down Wisdom in Alcatraz. Her spider-sense will warn her of any danger, an asset that also can't be underestimated when it comes to the actual battle.

You see, Spider-Girl is stronger, faster and more agile. And even if it came down to close quarters, she'd still have an advantage through her webs. Rob Pete of his eyesight and what is he going to do? Or just web him up completely. Sure, he'll get out, heating up his hands, but he'll need to free the rest of himself too. Spider-Girl can't land a blow before that time?

Fact of the matter is, it takes one punch to take Pete down.

WINNER=SPIDER-GIRL

[Harlekin]

EDIT: Double post.

[Harlekin]

OPENING ARGUMENT: JESSE BEDLAM VS. BLACK PANTHER

Wow, I can't believe how perfectly tailored Jesse Bedlam is to this match. His fighting skills have been ratcheted up and he should be able to fend off BP for a bit if the need is there, he can disable any of BP's equipment and even scramble BP's already vulnerable brain (he was diagnosed with an incurable, terminal brain aneurysm some years ago).

Yes, BP has stealth, but Jesse Bedlam is black ops. Besides that, BP's capabilities are more than well-known to the outside world as a public member of the Avengers for numerous years. Bedlam is calm and collected enough to wait him out.

Since BP has no idea what he's in store for - Bedlam's pretty obscure - his greatest skill (prep-time) is already nullified. Then there's really nothing protecting him from Bedlam's powers, which would wreak havoc with his gadgets and his brain. Heck, Bedlam can even use these powers from a distance, so once BP is in range, <snap> he's asleep.

WINNER=JESSE BEDLAM

[Phaedrus45]

Debates Are Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[Harlekin]

Random
Spider-Girl
Cerise
Jesse Bedlam

[POWdER-man]

Bedlam
Random
Cerise
Spider-Girl

[random_havoc]

Bedlam
Spider-Girl
Morlun
Random

[JewishHobbit]

Morlun

Random -

Sweet! I love Random :)

Spider-Girl -
Disappointed with the lack of debate for Pete. Man's good in a scrap.

Jesse Bedlam -
I like Black Panther and at first thought I thought he had it in the bag, but then i thought it might be a closer match remembering how awsome he was during Counter X. Then Harlekin went and put the icing on the cake with his debate. Also, Panther's fighting put me on edge on the match but I then remembered that Bedlam has some kind of Black Belt and can definately hold his own in hand-to-hand if needed.

[Phaedrus45]

My Votes:

*Random

*Spider-Girl

*Morlun

*Black Panther - I find it inaccurate that Black Panther wouldn't know about Jesse. He's married to Storm, who would have information on him; and, I think Black Panther has proven he's got scads of information about almost everything, surprising people constantly.

[Midnight Ice]

Random
Spider-Girl
Cerise
Black Panther

[wiegeabo]

Random

Spider-Girl

Cerise - Damn you all for not giving me some reasons :p

Jessie BedlamSurprised myself here. Another tough one to call. Would have liked more debating (but probably only would have made the decision harder ;))

[Hellstormer]

Random

Spider-Girl

Morlun

Jessie Bedlam

[Ahura Mazda]

Random

Spider-Girl

Morlun

Jessie Bedlam

[Phaedrus45]

Voting Is Over!

Final Results:

Random defeats Silver Samurai 9-0

Spider-Girl defeats Pete Wisdom 9-0

Morlun defeats Cerise 5-4

Jesse Bedlam defeats Black Panther 7-2

[Phaedrus45]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Amadeus Cho (HARLEKIN) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeus_Cho)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/amedeus.jpg

vs.

Washout (AHURAMAZDA) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washout_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/washout-1.jpg

Match 2:

Agent X (HELLSTORMER) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_X_(Marvel_Comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/agentx.jpg

vs.

Whirlwind (HARLEKIN) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlwind_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/whirlwind-1.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Bracket 8

Match 1:

Penance-Robbie Baldwin (RANDOMHAVOC) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedball_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/penance.jpg

vs.

Starlord-Peter Quill (HELLSTORMER) link (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/starlor1.htm)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/starlord.jpg

Match 2:

Hogun (AHURAMAZDA) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogun)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/hogun-1.jpg

vs.

Shathra (POWDER-MAN) link (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/shathra.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/shathra.jpg

[Phaedrus45]

Debating May Begin!!!

Location = Muir Island

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muir_Island

It's night. It's uninhabited.

[random_havoc]

Opening Debate: Penance vs Starlord.


Okay, running out of time today so I'll be brief.

Starlord's got some things going for him, but Penance has brute force as far as the powers go here. When these two inevitably confront one another Penance has enough power to go through Starlord's force field (if he even still has that), and take him down.


WINNER= PENANCE

[Harlekin]

OPENING ARGUMENT: AMADEUS CHO VS WASHOUT

Fun match, but one that favours Amadeus Cho. For one thing, Muir Isle, while ravaged, is still full of tech that the 7th smartest person can use to his full advantage. For one thing, he could construct a numer of things to disperse Washout.

Also, after analysing Washout's power output, Cho would quickly recognise his powers have a severe, fatal side-effect: they dehydrate him. Another advantage for Cho.

Finally, Cho's smart enough to outwit Ares, Skrull gods, SHIELD and more. Washout's quite the dim light. Cho might not have the physical ability, but he has the intelligence to use his environment and Washout's own smarts to the fullest against Washout.

WINNER=AMADEUS CHO

[Ahura Mazda]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/JewishHobbit/CoM.jpg


Bracket 7

Match 1:

Amadeus Cho (HARLEKIN) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeus_Cho)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/amedeus.jpg

vs.

Washout (AHURAMAZDA) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washout_(comics))

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/washout-1.jpg


This is an interesting match but one which favors Washout. First off, neither opponent will know much about the other. However, washout is going to know the location.

The battle will be Amadeus trying to build something once the battle starts (he does not have access before) and this after surveying the site.

Now, washout will be trying to take out Amadeus directly almost immediately which he can do using his water powers which do dehydrate him if used extensively for more then 24 hours. There is no risk of that here.

Amadeus is a super genius but he is not as smart as Richards, Doom, or even Bruce Banner (he is 7th smartest not the smartest) and he rarely builds anything. However, he is an excellent hacker and uses angles to incredible effect.

The issue here is that he is facing water....somethi8ng he will not know or figure out until he faces Washout and that is probably his downfall for he has no protection against water powers.

Amadeus is incredible backup but having read most of his appearances, he is not much of a fighter but he is a great survivor and then Herc comes to save the day. Hercules is not available here.

Amedeus will be washed out by Washout.

Winner: Washout

[Ahura Mazda]

Bracket 8

Match 2:

Hogun (AHURAMAZDA) link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogun)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/hogun-1.jpg

vs.

Shathra (POWDER-MAN) link (http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/shathra.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/Phaedrus45/shathra.jpg

This is actually an interesting match up. One which each has its advantages over the other.

The location and prep time wil not be the most effective and the only one who has a chance of getting a leg up is Hogun by using Asgardian resources.

Superhuman Strength: Shathra possesses superhuman strength sufficient to lift at least 15 tons.


Superhuman Speed: Shathra can run and move at speeds that are beyond the physical capabilities of the finest human athlete, even more so than even Spider-Man.


Superhuman Stamina: Shathra's musculature produces less fatigue toxins then the musculature of a human being. She can physically exert herself at peak capacity for at least several hours before hte build up of fatigue toxins in her blood begins to impair her.


Superhuman Durability: Shathra is tougher and more resistant to certain kinds of injury than a human being. For instance, she can fall or leap from great heights without sustaining any physical injury. She is also resistant to great impact forces. She can withstand physical impacts, such as being struck by Spider-Man, that would severely injure or kill a human and sustain little to no physical injury.


Superhuman Agility: Shathra's agility, balance, and bodily coordination are all enhanced to levels that are beyond the natural physical limits of the finest human athlete.


Superhuman Reflexes: Shathra's reflexes are similarly enhanced and are superior to those of the finest human athlete.


Superhuman Sense of Smell: Shathra possesses a superhuman sense of smell that borders on the extrasensory. She has shown the ability to track Spider-Man through scent and could do so across continents and dimensions. It isn't known if she can track other individuals in this same way or only Spider-Man, due to the totemistical connection between the two.


Regenerative Healing Factor: If Shathra sustains physical injury, she can quickly heal damaged bodily tissues faster and more extensively than a human. While not nearly as efficient as that possessed by Wolverine, her healing powers are superior to those of Spider-Man.


Shapeshifting: Shathra has limits shapeshifting abilities that she can use to transform her appearance into that of a normal looking human female.


Teleportation: Shatrha is able to generate warp holes through space and even through dimensions, such as from her natural home in the Astral Plane to Earth.


Claws & Stingers: Shathra possesses razor sharp claws that, coupled with her great strength, are able to cut most conventional materials including flesh, bone, stone, and some types of metals. She also fire sharp stinger-like projectiles with great accuracy and speed. These stingers can easily pierce Spider-Man's webbing and are coated with neural paralyzing agent capable of overcoming Spider-Man.

Hogun is an Asgardian with all the powers of an Asgardian. He is a class 35 with Asgardian speed, stamina, healing and durability. To add, he is also a warrior with thousands of years of experience and he will come equipped with his mace as such.

Now looking at the powers of each there are a few things to note. Hogun is more then twice as strong as Shathra. He is also either faster or at least as fast as Shathra. Her reflexes are however inferiour to those of Hogun. It is also questionable whether her claws could harm him as he can withstand bullets.

Now this will be a battle with each fighting the other in a more straight forward manner. Shathra will use her surroundings to a greater degree (clinging to walls and such) and Hogun will be using his mace.

Her healing is good to heal after the 24 hours but it will not help her much here and Hoghun could literally crush her with just one blow.

Winner - Hogun

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: AMADEUS CHO VS. WASHOUT
This is an interesting match but one which favors Washout. First off, neither opponent will know much about the other. However, washout is going to know the location.
Why? He's never been there.

The battle will be Amadeus trying to build something once the battle starts (he does not have access before) and this after surveying the site.

Now, washout will be trying to take out Amadeus directly almost immediately which he can do using his water powers which do dehydrate him if used extensively for more then 24 hours. There is no risk of that here.
Eh, Washout's a show-off. He'll try and find Cho, but our teenage friend should be able to outwit him on that front and keep out of his way. Muir Island is a big island and has a big headquarters.

Amadeus is a super genius but he is not as smart as Richards, Doom, or even Bruce Banner (he is 7th smartest not the smartest) and he rarely builds anything. However, he is an excellent hacker and uses angles to incredible effect.
Seventh smartest is still pretty damn smart!

The issue here is that he is facing water....somethi8ng he will not know or figure out until he faces Washout and that is probably his downfall for he has no protection against water powers.
The picture and name aren't going to give him any clues?

Amadeus is incredible backup but having read most of his appearances, he is not much of a fighter but he is a great survivor and then Herc comes to save the day. Hercules is not available here.
Yeah, he's more of a survivor than a fighter, but actually, I figure that's to his advantage. Besides that, he's been able to take on SHIELD agents without a hitch.

Washout's a cool guy, but an idiot. Without back-up from Weapon X, he's out of his depth.

WINNER=AMADEUS CHO

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal: AMADEUS CHO VS WASHOUT



Fun match, but one that favours Amadeus Cho. For one thing, Muir Isle, while ravaged, is still full of tech that the 7th smartest person can use to his full advantage. For one thing, he could construct a numer of things to disperse Washout.

First off he has no access to the sitre or has any information on Washout so really his preparation are all for naught until the fight starts. He also does not have superspeed to avoid him.


Also, after analysing Washout's power output, Cho would quickly recognise his powers have a severe, fatal side-effect: they dehydrate him. Another advantage for Cho.

He can only analyse his power outputs once he uses them and he will use them on Amadeus who has no defence against them.

Finally, Cho's smart enough to outwit Ares, Skrull gods, SHIELD and more. Washout's quite the dim light. Cho might not have the physical ability, but he has the intelligence to use his environment and Washout's own smarts to the fullest against Washout.

Yes he has outwitted but only with the brawn of Hercules behind him to implement his ideas. He is an incredible sidekick but he does not often battle for himself.

WINNER=Washout

[Ahura Mazda]

REBUTTAL: AMADEUS CHO VS. WASHOUT



Why? He's never been there.

As an Agent of the weapon x program he would have heard about Muir Island and its mutants.


Eh, Washout's a show-off. He'll try and find Cho, but our teenage friend should be able to outwit him on that front and keep out of his way. Muir Island is a big island and has a big headquarters.

Yes but he does not use his powers when he does not need to and he certainly will not do so here. I will give you that I expect Amdeus to try and lay a trap for him but he will have no idea what paowers he will be facing and especially not water powers.


Seventh smartest is still pretty damn smart!

Yes well this is not an IQ test....


The picture and name aren't going to give him any clues?

Looking at the picture and the name makes me think of an ex-TV star who falied. Washout is a term meaning somebody who has failed. Plus the guy is wearing oversized sunglasses following (fe)male fashion. What clues are those for Amadeus?


Yeah, he's more of a survivor than a fighter, but actually, I figure that's to his advantage. Besides that, he's been able to take on SHIELD agents without a hitch.

He has again taken on shield agents when able to suprise them and by using stones and angles. Washout will not be harmed by projectiles and he will not be suprised when he is in a battle against the only other person on that island.

Washout's a cool guy, but an idiot. Without back-up from Weapon X, he's out of his depth.

He is not an idiot just a bit of a show off. He is also an experienced combattant. Amadeus is a fantastic character when he can team up with powerful beings. He however does not fight for himself and here he will be out of his depth.

WINNER=Washout

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: AMADEUS CHO VS. WASHOUT

Where do you get the idea that Washout is an experienced combatant? He was just that, a Washout. He was barely effective with Weapon X. He also cared little for the agency and was more about wearing spiffy suits. He's not going to know about Muir Isle and he's not going to get any information from the Weapon X systems.

As to what the picture tells him? The picture shows water. His name is Washout. Hell, even I could figure out what he can do, and I'm not the seventh smartest person on the planet.

As to avoiding Washout, it's not going to be difficult. Hack the Muir Isle systems and use the cameras. That's also how he'll have confirmation of Washout's powers. Setting a trap then, using Muir Isle tech should be child's play.

WINNER=AMADEUS CHO

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7086/330691-84883-agent-x_super.jpg
Agent X VS. Whirlwind

So basically we have the smart version of Deadpool against a lame C-lister Avengers villain. This will be over easily. X can use all his Agency X data to compile a file for his new hit. Whirlwinds now a hugely popular villain but he's been defeated enough time for significant information to be availible. Agent X will charge into the battle and use explosives to knock WW off balance. Once that happens a few well placed rounds to the exposed areas will finish this. Even if Whirlwind gets a hit it'll will heal in seconds.

Winner=Agent X

[Hellstormer]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/320761-164117-starlord_super.jpg
Starlord VS. Penance

This is an interesting match because we have two opponents who know nothing of eachother and probably won't find anything about eachother. When they are actually fighting it'll will be hard for Starlord to start off strong. Given his eye he might be able to notice that somethings up everytime he injures Penance. When that happens he can switch tactics and instead try to 1) Remove his suit and 2) Disable him. This can be achived with the element gun. He'll need to use a high amount of heat to burn away the suit and use earth to disable him. When he uses the heat his reflexes will be put to the test while he dodges the explosive results.

Winner=Starlord

[random_havoc]

[CENTER]http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/320761-164117-starlord_super.jpg
Starlord VS. Penance

[LEFT]This is an interesting match because we have two opponents who know nothing of eachother and probably won't find anything about eachother. When they are actually fighting it'll will be hard for Starlord to start off strong. Given his eye he might be able to notice that somethings up everytime he injures Penance. When that happens he can switch tactics and instead try to 1) Remove his suit and 2) Disable him. This can be achived with the element gun. He'll need to use a high amount of heat to burn away the suit and use earth to disable him. When he uses the heat his reflexes will be put to the test while he dodges the explosive results.


Here's the problem, Starlord just won't last long enough to first of all learn exactly what's causing Penance's powers, let alone then come up with a plan and way to enact it.

Penance's blasts are powerful enough to take Starlord out in one hit. Not nearly enough time for all that Starlord would have to do.

WINNER = PENANCE

[POWdER-man]

Shathra vs Hogun

Damn Hype again...grr...

I won't repeat both character's powers but I will highlight a few things about Shathra:

- Her speed and acrobatic agility is more than Spider-Man which should make her far more than Hogun. Giving her the ability to easily dodge Hogun's attacks.
- Her stingers which can paralyze her prey
- Plus her ability to discuise herself as a normal human

Prep-time

This wouldn't help either character as they wouldn't know each other nor have any resources to find anything on each other.

Match

The location wouldn't help either character as neither have never been there. However, what benefits Shathra is her ability to disuise herself and then pretend to have been attacked by "Shathra". She can go right up to him, seeminly as a normal human woman, which would look far different than the creature in the picture. This will have Hogun put his guard down, when that happens Shathra can use one of her tranquilizer stingers and aim for easy soft spot like inside his mouth or eyes. She has great aim, speed faster than Spider-man and with Hogun's guard down it will be easy for her to strike him.

If she misses she still has her far superior speed and acrobatic agility to dodge his attacks and she can strike him with her claws (than can tear through steel) and can tear him apart. Eventually she will get another opportunity to stuff a stinger in his mouth to paralyze him and take him down. He will recover but he will be down long enough for Shathra to take this match.

WINNER SHATHRA

[Ahura Mazda]

REBUTTAL: AMADEUS CHO VS. WASHOUT



Where do you get the idea that Washout is an experienced combatant? He was just that, a Washout. He was barely effective with Weapon X. He also cared little for the agency and was more about wearing spiffy suits. He's not going to know about Muir Isle and he's not going to get any information from the Weapon X systems.

He is experienced because he did combat in the past. He does not have the experience of someone like Hercules or Thor but he certainly has more experience then Amadeus.

As to what the picture tells him? The picture shows water. His name is Washout. Hell, even I could figure out what he can do, and I'm not the seventh smartest person on the planet.

I disagree with you because I did not even notice any water in that photo, it just looks like a painting of a guy with weird sunglasses in a blue backfrop. That could be the sky in the background.

Regarding the name, washout does not refer to wash just like dimsum does not refer to things going dark. It refers to failure, which should make Amadeus quite confident and maybe lead him to think he is facing someone with powers that cause failures in people.

As to avoiding Washout, it's not going to be difficult. Hack the Muir Isle systems and use the cameras. That's also how he'll have confirmation of Washout's powers. Setting a trap then, using Muir Isle tech should be child's play.

First he has to access those systems which does take him some time especially he has to find where they are located. It is not as if he appears in front of them. In the comics, he does his research and prepares things for days when attempting to enter a facility. He does not transport through walls or has precognition to do so. All this takes time whereas Washout just needs to find the only other person in the area.

WINNER=Washout

[Ahura Mazda]

Shathra vs Hogun - Rebuttal



Damn Hype again...grr...

I won't repeat both character's powers but I will highlight a few things about Shathra:

- Her speed and acrobatic agility is more than Spider-Man which should make her far more than Hogun. Giving her the ability to easily dodge Hogun's attacks.
- Her stingers which can paralyze her prey
- Plus her ability to discuise herself as a normal human

She has the ability to paralyze humans...there is nothing to indicate she can do anything to an Asgardian who are a race of Gods.

Prep-time

This wouldn't help either character as they wouldn't know each other nor have any resources to find anything on each other.

You might be right but it is also possible that Hogun can use Asgardian resources to learn about Muir Island. It is not that far fetched but this is not something I will debate over. I would just leave it to the voters. I am just putting the possibility out there.

Match

The location wouldn't help either character as neither have never been there. However, what benefits Shathra is her ability to disuise herself and then pretend to have been attacked by "Shathra". She can go right up to him, seeminly as a normal human woman, which would look far different than the creature in the picture. This will have Hogun put his guard down, when that happens Shathra can use one of her tranquilizer stingers and aim for easy soft spot like inside his mouth or eyes. She has great aim, speed faster than Spider-man and with Hogun's guard down it will be easy for her to strike him.

First off, Hogun is a very experienced warrior. He knows he faces only one person on the battledfield knowing it is otherwise deserted. He will not let his guard down because a female comes up. Plus he abilities allow her to appear human not badly injured as far as I know.

Plus her speed is not that greater then an Asgardian who are at least 3 times as fast as human athletes. Yes she will be more agile but she will not be that much faster then him.

If she misses she still has her far superior speed and acrobatic agility to dodge his attacks and she can strike him with her claws (than can tear through steel) and can tear him apart. Eventually she will get another opportunity to stuff a stinger in his mouth to paralyze him and take him down. He will recover but he will be down long enough for Shathra to take this match.

One, there is nothing to show that her stingers could affect an Asgardian or even her claws could cut her skin. His skin can repel bullets and on top of that he wears armour. And he has fought against creatures faster then her in the Asgardian dimension, not to mention more powerful and has come out victorious.

WINNER HOGUN

[POWdER-man]

Shathra vs Hogun - Rebuttal



She has the ability to paralyze humans...there is nothing to indicate she can do anything to an Asgardian who are a race of Gods.

It's a paralyzing venom. It would affect anyone who could be affected by a paralyzing venom. It has no discretion.

Now the paralyzing affected a "super"human, and Hogun has nothing that says that he is unaffected by a paralyzing venom. Plus just because he is a god doesn't mean he can't be knocked out (which he has), or be killed (which he has been). Shathra doesn't need to kill him only subdue him long enough to end this match.


You might be right but it is also possible that Hogun can use Asgardian resources to learn about Muir Island. It is not that far fetched but this is not something I will debate over. I would just leave it to the voters. I am just putting the possibility out there.

I am not going to really debate this but this is pretty vague ("Asguradian resources" - like what?), and they have not been on Muir Island from what I can tell.

First off, Hogun is a very experienced warrior. He knows he faces only one person on the battledfield knowing it is otherwise deserted. He will not let his guard down because a female comes up. Plus he abilities allow her to appear human not badly injured as far as I know.

Yes he knows he is facing one person, but he doesn't know the area is deserted.

Not only appear human, but look human. She is able to change her appearance completely including creating clothing (as shown below), to say she can't create herself to look injured seems like a BIG stretch. At the very least she can rip at her clothes and scratch herself to look hurt.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/Shathra9.png

Plus her speed is not that greater then an Asgardian who are at least 3 times as fast as human athletes. Yes she will be more agile but she will not be that much faster then him.

Obviously you are looking at wikia's bio of Hogun as it doesn't indicate that on his Marvel bio. While wikia, is a good reference it is not always as reliable, especially compared to the official bios from Marvel.com. On Marvel's official bio, Spider-man is referenced as being 15 times faster than a human. While Shathra is at the very least at par, although shown and referenced as being faster. As shown here:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/Shathra2.png
She caught up to spidey in mid swing trying to escape AND with a head start(and that was just AFTER a building dropped on top of her, in which you see her coming out). So not only shows her speed but her durability.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/Shathra4.png

Now Thor is far more faster, stronger, etc than Hogun but you never see him shown the kind of speed like Spidey.

One, there is nothing to show that her stingers could affect an Asgardian or even her claws could cut her skin. His skin can repel bullets and on top of that he wears armour. And he has fought against creatures faster then her in the Asgardian dimension, not to mention more powerful and has come out victorious.

There is nothing that you can show that they won't affect an Asguardian. It goes both ways. If he was immune to paralyzing toxins or venoms I am sure it would have been indicated on his bio, but it is not. When a snake bites a human, sure he usually hunts small animals like mice, but that doesn't mean the same venom won't affect that person. If it weren't the case than we wouldn't have to worry about snake or spider bites.

Now I would admit that Hogun's physiology would probably benefit him to resist the toxins more, HOWEVER, there no stopping Shathra from firing more than one stinger. As shown here her accuracy is deadly:

Catching Spidey's thin web line.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/Shathra1.png

Striking Spidey in mid flip (with of course his spidey sense which didn't help)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/Shathra6.png

A brief mention of the strength of the affects of the stingers (and more than one)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/powderman_22222/Shathra7.png

So in closing I don't any reason why Shathra's strategy wouldn't work and I don't see why her stingers wouldn't affect Hogun. Shathra's very sneaky and underhanded, not to mention this is at night and with her cloaked in darkness she would be able to move around undetected very easily. She came up to Spidey (with his spidey senses) so fast it didn't warn him until she was right there. Shathra can do the same, however she has the ability to disguise herself which could easily fool Hogun since he would be thinking he is fighting this black and dark beast, not a human woman.

WINNER SHATHRA

[Phaedrus45]

Debating Is Over!

Voting May Begin!!!

[Hellstormer]

Starlord

Agent X

Amadeus Cho

Shathra

[random_havoc]

Cho
Agent X
Shathra Considering her speed vs Spider-Man, I doubt that Hogun could touch her
Cho

[wiegeabo]

random, you voted for Cho twice. You skipped Penance/Starlord.