What would YOU make the AVENGERS movie about..?

[[A]]

I can't write :hehe: and I read very few Avengers stories--but I like some of the ideas I read in the internets (and this could be fun) So, what would you make the Avengers movie about..? And don't skimp on details--make nice and long posts, come on :D

[Raiden]

I think it has to be a threat that is so terrifying that Fury unite all the Avengers together to deal with this enemy. Marvel will have to find a good plot that justify them teaming up, because all 3 major superheroes have their own movie and it makes no sense if they join together for a movie and a dinner. Introducing Hulk as that threat may be nice, but I don't want him to be the main baddie, but probably brainwashed and challeged the Avengers early on. I was thinking about introducing Skulls and their Invasion storyline, but only if it works as a standalone movie.

[[A]]

I think it has to be able a threat that is so terrifying that Fury unite all the Avengers together to deal with this enemy. Marvel will have to find a good plot that justify them teaming up, because all 3 major superheroes have their own movie and it makes no sense if they join together for a movie and a dinner. Introducing Hulk as that threat may be nice, but I don't want him to be the main baddie, but probably brainwashed and challeged the Avengers early on. I was thinking about introducing Skulls and their Invasion storyline, but only if it works as a standalone movie.

^ that if Norton ever comes back :hehe:

[Chewy]

Even if Norton doesn't come back they can use an all CG Hulk.

[[A]]

of course. they can even get Ang Lee to wear the suit

[FaT_tONle]

No Banner = No Hulk... the last thing we need is another bastardization of the Hulk as dumb brute for the entire film without the depth of Banner. I don't need the eye candy if that is all Hulk is there for. Just recast the character.

[Chewy]

They can make him smarter, have him mature since TIH. Have Hulk talk a bunch. He doesn't need to be a silent brute.

As much as I would hate for Norton to not come back, it seems likely and it wouldn't exactly be the end of the world.

[JackIvyGB]

With how they've set it up, with Fury being what unites them, and probably with S.H.I.E.L.D. backing them, I'd say the easiest and most likely story (or at least what I'd do) is some sort of Ultimates based story. An impending alien invasion the team has to fight off. a simple enough but threatening obstacle tha could let all the avengers shine in battle. Make Baron Zemo take the place of Kleiser (either make him an alien, or have the aliens bring him back to life to lead them once more). Basically Ultimates 1 vol 2, skipping the first story with Hulk as the bad guy. Not sure about part 2, but for the 3rd one, have Loki from Thor's solo movie show up and unite all the seperate bad guys to attack NY at once, essentially doing Ultimates 2. He is joined by Abomb, Whip/dynamo from IM2 (only a much bigger threat, like Dynamo from Ultimates 2), Sterns from TIH (now mutated into leader) to mind control the Hulk into attacking his teamates (using Avengers vs Hulk from Ultimates 1 without making hulk the bad guy), etc. We get a HUGE epic fight for the 3rd film, including the asgardian trolls and vikings, which would help even more to tie in our's and Thor's world. Biggest Superhero fight EVER on screen. (disregard the black widow being a bad guy and hawkeye killing her aspect. It was awesome in the books, but I don't think it's neccessary to have that aspect in the movie, nor do we really need hawkeye's family).

At the end, we see the Avengers decide to dissconnect from S.H.I.E.L.D. in order to be able to help the world without it being seen as US government action.

Now that the team would simply be a public gathering of heroes, start to gear more toward 616 avengers, bringing in more characters from the classic avengers tales, both heroes and enemies. Falcon, She-hulk, whoever. It frees it up to go back to classic stuff because you have the core team established, and they are no longer owned and operated by Fury, though it'd be nice to see him pop in from time to time to ask for their help or whatever.

I know some people don't like the ultimates because they find the characters to be "jerks", but the easy answer to that is to just not write them as jerks. I've never read any 616 Avengers stories, but if that's the favored characterization, personality-wise, use that. The story of the Ultimates can still be used in the broad sense of what the plot and villains are.

[Aztec]

So, what would you make the Avengers movie about..?

Read The Ultimates.

[[A]]

Read The Ultimates.is that your answer..?

[Aztec]

Ummm....yeah. My ideal Avengers movie has already been written. It's called The Ultimates 1 & 2.

[[A]]

Ummm....yeah. My ideal Avengers movie has already been written. It's called The Ultimates 1 & 2.now that's an answer.

[thejon93]

'The Avengers' = 'Saw VI'
'nuff said.

:grin::oldrazz::woot:

[irapogi]

Ummm....yeah. My ideal Avengers movie has already been written. It's called The Ultimates 1 & 2.

seriously, certain traits aside (cap's a huge douche btw) reading ultimates feels like watching a movie.

[WillardNation]

Fat chicks

[[A]]

seriously, certain traits aside (cap's a huge douche btw) reading ultimates feels like watching a movie...and not a very good one either :hehe:

[irapogi]

..and not a very good one either :hehe:

haha, i'm easy to please anyways, which is why it's good that I don't work in hollywood. hehe :whatever:

[Aztec]

..and not a very good one either :hehe:

Are you serious? The Ultimates 1 & 2 (ignoring the god awful Loeb garbage that is 3 & Ultimatum) are easily the best reads Marvel has released in 10 years. If you don't like them, then I don't know what to tell you. As iraqipogo pointed out, they are written very much like a screenplay so the transition from graphic novel to film is very natural here.

[topdog1]

I think it has to be a threat that is so terrifying that Fury unite all the Avengers together to deal with this enemy. Marvel will have to find a good plot that justify them teaming up, because all 3 major superheroes have their own movie and it makes no sense if they join together for a movie and a dinner. Introducing Hulk as that threat may be nice, but I don't want him to be the main baddie, but probably brainwashed and challeged the Avengers early on. I was thinking about introducing Skulls and their Invasion storyline, but only if it works as a standalone movie.

Please, NO Skrulls or alien invasions. That would be death for the film.

Maybe Ultron (loosely based on the Ultron Unlimited storyline?) could be the threat? It would be a good way to introduce Hank and Jan since they will be the only new characters not seen in a previous film. Ultron/artificial AI running amok would draw Tony Stark's attention. Hulk could be drawn in to the conflict and even lose control like the end of the animated Ultimate Avengers feature.

Plus, Avengers smashing robots would look great and appeal to the PG-13 violence quotient... no blood. The box office would love an Iron Man meets Transformers type film.

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/cv/avenultronunlimitedz.jpg

[thejon93]

Please, NO Skrulls or alien invasions. That would be death for the film.

Maybe Ultron (loosely based on the Ultron Unlimited storyline?) could be the threat? It would be a good way to introduce Hank and Jan since they will be the only new characters not seen in a previous film. Ultron/artificial AI running amok would draw Tony Stark's attention. Hulk could be drawn in to the conflict and even lose control like the end of the animated Ultimate Avengers feature.

Plus, Avengers smashing robots would look great and appeal to the PG-13 violence quotient... no blood. The box office would love an Iron Man meets Transformers type film.

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/cv/avenultronunlimitedz.jpg
You gotta be ----ting me...

[topdog1]

You gotta be ----ting me...

I ---- you not.

I'm only talking in terms of visual appeal. The trailer alone would draw kids by the boat load. Iron Man/Hulk/Thor smashing an Ultron robot?!?!?!

[Artistsean]

I like what the series Earths Mightiest Heroes (drawn by Scott Kollins) did.
They get together to fight threats that no one hero can handle by themselves.

[Asteroid-Man]

Combine both Ultimates for the first film, have Ultron in the sequel and combine all heir villains for the third movie.

[MarvelFanClub]

spomething like fighting ultron like in comcis how he wants to kill the avengers

[thejon93]

I ---- you not.

I'm only talking in terms of visual appeal. The trailer alone would draw kids by the boat load. Iron Man/Hulk/Thor smashing an Ultron robot?!?!?!
So, what you're saying is that they might as well hire Michael Bay right on the spot to make some crap-ass 'Transformers' clone. I think I'll have enough big, giant robots in one year, thank you:cwink:

[sdc10]

So, what you're saying is that they might as well hire Michael Bay right on the spot to make some crap-ass 'Transformers' clone. I think I'll have enough big, giant robots in one year, thank you:cwink:

Well it would def be crap if they wanted to copy crap. Transformers is extremely overrated:ikyn

[[A]]

^ wow, there is someone bright around here :hehe:

[topdog1]

So, what you're saying is that they might as well hire Michael Bay right on the spot to make some crap-ass 'Transformers' clone. I think I'll have enough big, giant robots in one year, thank you:cwink:


Whoa whoa... I'm certainly no Transformers fan. I thought the movie was dumb fluff with jittery and poorly structured action sequences. All I was referencing was the box office. Transformers could've been awesome. All I'm saying is that using Ultron correctly (coupled with the excellence that already is the Iron Man franchise) would spell a sure fire hit.

Little green men invading earth would turn critics and general audiences off faster then you would think. It would be the opposite of what made Iron Man click.

[[A]]

plus, aliens seems like... well, it doesn't fit in what they're doing so far. sure, iron men and big green guys (and a potential nordic god) but aliens? don't think so

[Rich Santoro]

I would like to see the back-story for the Avengers Initiative be that SHIELD has been monitoring a variety of "unconventional" threats. They are the Marvel-movie-verse's version of the X-Files, investigating matters concerning, radical new technology, exo-biology (aliens), crypto-zology (bizarre species, such as Atlanteans, Wendigo, subterraneans), paranormal phenomena, occult, metaphysics (the nature of reality and dimensional space), extra-toponymy (strange geographic places, ala Wakanda, Wundagore Mt., etc...).

Prior to the Avengers movie timeline, SHILED is already monitoring a number of mounting threats. A decision is made to initiate a program to "assemble" a team special trained and equipped to respond to these threats (Hawkeye and Black Widow could be present in the background as supporting characters at first)... AND there are efforts to launch extensive research into strange new areas of science.

Then, when some enhanced beings start showing up (IM, TIH, Thor, Captain America films), a recruitment effort is initiated. Stark is contacted (in IM)... then Gen. Ross is contacted for his assessment of Banner (TIH... Does he have control??? Can he be brought in as an asset??? Or should he be listed on the threat list???)... Thor is discovered and contacted (Thor)... Then also prior to the Avengers movie timeline, Pym works for SHIELD as a chief scientist and makes his discovery of Pym particles. He is already capable of shrinking, and is now perfecting the suit so that he may actually go into the field with some measure of control. Janet can be "pre-powered" or it could happen in the Avengers film.

Additionally, I would like the timeline of the films be tweaked so that Cap actually gets thawed before the events of IM, and is curentl with SHIELD undergoing rehab, and training after decades on ice (all culminated at the end of the Cap film).

The movie deals with bringing the team together to talk about the "special response nature" of the team (to address a special category of global threats). The threat in question is a particular former Nazi nona-generian (RedSkull) who escaped to South America after WWII. He has a private army of mercenaries armed with next level tech weapons (produced by AIM scientists) and some supporting bad guys like Cross Bones. This army has made remarkable fortunes arming and fighting for all sides in the many drug wars and revolutions / guerilla wars that have been going on in S. America for decades. Now a new break through is about to unfold... The AIM scientists are constructing a strange new energy source they are calling the cosmic cube. It is composed of the very cosmic forces that make up matter and energy, particularly the life force of Earth. This old Nazi uses the cube to empower and revitalize himself... and a new plan begins to emerge... Invade America and overthrow Washington DC. The world will be his.

SHIELD does send the Avengers on there first mission to destroy the Cosmic Cube production facility (they have intel on its operation)... but they fail. Red Skull shows up in DC and holds the capitol hostage (including the president and most of congress). The Avengers have to work to defeat the bad guys while keeping hostages (such as the president) from being axed.

Some side bars that could be really great, would be that Skull's forces infiltrate the Pentagon and free Abomination from his containment (he can eventually escapes and would be available for future films).

[Gamma Goliath]

red skull
baron zemo
hydra
aim
ultron

who best fits the movieverse?

[The Avatar]

So, what you're saying is that they might as well hire Michael Bay right on the spot to make some crap-ass 'Transformers' clone. I think I'll have enough big, giant robots in one year, thank you:cwink: ^to say that this is narrowminded would be putting it very mildly.

[Rich Santoro]

red skull
baron zemo
hydra
aim
ultron

who best fits the movieverse?

Anyone of them would fit... The question is, fit the turn of events??? I am in the camp that feels it is too early for Ultron. There is a lot more backstory needed there. AIM or Hydra as terrorist organizations would be very adaptable due to today's real world terrorism issues, and that kind of global threat could lend itself to the need to form a superpowered team.

I am iffy about Zemo and Skull. I would really prefer to see one or the other (two WWII Nazi bad guys, may seem too much). Either character could go the route of the Cosmic Cube or the Masters of Evil...

But like in my post above... I favor Skull with a provate army composed of AIM agents and technology... and the Cosmic Cube on the horizon.

[[A]]

now whenever I play FALLOUT 3's last level, I picture Ultron..

[Deaths Head II]

I would make it like my fan trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnbSoAdcCp8

Captain America gets found in the ice after The First Avenger: Captain America and finds out his old enemy the Red Skull is at large and planning something big. Nick Fury recruits him to the Avengers because he has experience with fighting the Red Skull. Him and the rest of the team proceed to beat stuff up.

[[A]]

^ that was pretty cool :up:

[chris moore]

If I were putting together the script I would try to avoid any fantastical elements beyond Thor by excluding alien invasions or cosmic powers I think.

I would incorporate morals and ethics into the reason behind needing a superpowered team. Start out the movie with SHIELD as a global peacekeeping force and intelligence organisation with UN backing and oversight. Fury heads it as public director because he has proven during his time with the marines, army, CIA and WW2 military that he is one of those officers who fights for the right reasons and isnt one of those Generals who would always have US interests at heart. Nick's a world kinda guy kinda like Cap.

SHIELD
As Rich Santoro said, SHIELD could have been monitoring various unsubstantiated events across the world, but merely tracks them at present because, well, they're unsubstantiated. A small division of SHIELD is assigned to this as a sort of futurist research group hoping to advance humanity and civilisation through using SHIELD resources and networks to study seemingly superhuman or fantastic phenomenon. Research into genetic modification of human beings is strictly prohibited in accordance with UN policies, and so the advancement of mankind is slow and semi-natural (allowing for stem cell organ replacement research and the normal drug research to extend our lives by curing or preventing disease and natural breakdown).

BAD GUYS
However, those outside of the UN (the terrorist groups, industrial billionaires with few morals in places of high influence, megalomaniac rulers etc) aren't hindered by these policies and so have managed to make some great leaps in developing their own supersoldiers, bioweapons etc. SHIELD of course strives to take out these people and prevent their creations being used. But with the sudden increase in open activity of one of the major 'evil' organisations (Hydra), SHIELD simply cannot hold back the tide any longer. Coinciding with this, a few isolated accidents are beginning to occur around the world (the US in particular) including appearances of the Hulk, the Abomination, Thor, and Iron Man - non government or UN sponsored, accidental creations of superhumans.

THE GIST
In the movie, one incident involving the Hulk up in the arctic results in the discovery of Captain America's body in the ice. This incident could either another botched capture attempt by the US army, or an attack on the meditating Bruce Banner by Hydra agents trying to grab him and manipulate the Hulk to work for them as a WMD (The abomination being incarcerated somewhere they just can't get to to use him instead). Nick Fury recognises Cap from back in WW2 when he was simply part of the Howling Commandos, and knows from what he's learned throughout his career that Cap represents THE last example of government researched and sponsored human enhancement. The timings could not be better, and Nick sees recent events as a sign to put together a team of heroes who weren't drafted, weren't experimented on and have no loyalties to any particular government (therefore making them less succeptible to being coerced by their own governments to disobey SHIELD orders etc). These heroes exist within the terms of the UN genetic modification accord, but possess the power to stop Hydra and its supersoldiers and whatnot.
During the course of the film, amongst betrayal from within (a prominent member of the UN council that oversees the team above Fury), there's the revelation that the known head of Hydra (Strucker) is actually one of a council of leaders and that their overall leader is the Red Skull who has not been seen since the War but has manipulated events around the world for decades. Further, the Skull has been putting together his own team that are powerful beyond Hydra's genetic efforts - the Masters of Evil! Members to be decided and whose purpose is to overthrow DC in decisive fashion.


HAWKEYE AND BLACK WIDOW
Brought in as specialist human SHIELD agents to reintegrate Cap to society and bring him up to speed on SHIELD protocols/procedures etc, and to train the Avengers as a team (BW could have been recruited by the end of Iron Man 2).

HANK PYM AND JANET VAN DYNE
Head of the X-filesey group, is in charge of the riviving of Cap. His fiance Jan is present and has clearance as liason for her father's company that provides funding for some of the research Hank has been carrying out in the field of inorganic shrinking for a whole host of applications. He's discovered Pym Particles (mentioned maybe by Stark when he meets Hank for the first time before Cap's revival) but so far they have proven unstable in testing. In the classic Ultimates Cap disorientation scene, the ensuing fight between Cap, Hank, and a bunch of soldiers on scene results in Hank and Jan being thrown through the cavity wall separating two of his labs and their exposure to a huge dose of Pym particles and an "as-yet-unnamed-catalyst". This stabilises the particles and causes both of them to experience size changes: Hank's initially only growth when he gets frantic when Jan appears to have disappeared in the explosion, and Jan's in shrinking in response to the explosion in an attempt to protect herself.

[Rich Santoro]

Excellent synopsis... The idea of a UN genetic manipulation accord (set up by Strucker) is really good. This way they can manipulate the world to be restrained, while they secretly go all out.

[weezerspider]

If Only Fox didn't suck, Avenegers would be the perfect film to redeem VICTOR VON DOOM! Imagine Marvel starting over from scratch with the movie Doom and make him a worthy villian. He and Red Skull could team up and well... this can't happen cuz Fox.

[RAMORE]

Please, NO Skrulls or alien invasions. That would be death for the film.

Maybe Ultron (loosely based on the Ultron Unlimited storyline?) could be the threat? It would be a good way to introduce Hank and Jan since they will be the only new characters not seen in a previous film. Ultron/artificial AI running amok would draw Tony Stark's attention. Hulk could be drawn in to the conflict and even lose control like the end of the animated Ultimate Avengers feature.

Plus, Avengers smashing robots would look great and appeal to the PG-13 violence quotient... no blood. The box office would love an Iron Man meets Transformers type film.

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/cv/avenultronunlimitedz.jpg

I thought the same thing it explains hank and jan I wouldn't have hulk sorry he's not really avengers for me. Unless they go looking for ultron stumble on hulk and all get their asses handed to them. Thats when Fury is like we need a field leader then they get the call about cap being found in the ice...Bam Avengers Assemble baby!

[Rich Santoro]

I could see Ultron if the plot is that he was created prior than the Avengers film, and is at large. We can be introduced to the backstory in the film itself through a briefing by Fury and some dialogue scenes from Pym (with flashback footage). Then as the team is coming together, things escalate with Ultron... and bam.

[The Guard]

Screw alien invasions. That's for the Justice League. There needs to be a really good reason other than that for an entire team of superbeings to come together, and I can't think of a single "supervillain" that's a good enough reason by themselves. The Hulk and his control issues definitely needs to play a key role without taking over the plot, as does Captain America's re-emergence in modern times, and Thor's mystical relevance. But if SHIELD is indeed behind the formation of The Avengers, I really think it's got to be HYDRA that's the threat. I'd make the movie mostly about a growing HYDRA threat to the world that is palpable, and the formation of this group of incredibly complex, perhaps less-than-entirely trusted individuals, and just let it all loose in the third act. You could sow seeds and build to Ultron, but I don't think you use Ultron in the first film. I think you include a lot of espionage, strategic and technological elements to the first two acts to tie all the characters together, as the minds behind The Avengers slowly start to discover the scale of the threat, and by the end of the movie they realize what they're actually really up against, which is likely some version of Ultron, or a whole whorde of them. An alien threat that comes, in a sense, from within.

[[A]]

maybe a mod could add a poll: aliens or aliens-free

[Jordacar]

Just spitballing here:

HYDRA is essential for me. A whole army worth of bad guys for our heroes to beat up? Yes please! They would be easy to tie into pretty much any storyline.

The cosmic cube would make a cool MacGuffin (especially if Red Skull is involved) IF Transformers hadn't already done it, and it pretty well sucked in that movie. So that's just plain out.

It would be cool to bring back Red Skull somehow, but I think I'd rather see the Avengers movie have it's own villain rather than rehashing the baddies from the solo movies.

That's all I got for right now.

[marcvader]

I need a supervillain or supervillains in an Avengers not just an Army of bad guys with some devious plan. I want something fantastical like the cosmic cube too.

[Rich Santoro]

Here is one from left field... any thoughts on bringing in the High Evolutionary, with his own army of mutates and hi-tech weapons and gear???

Down the road... I hope that they work some existing villains back into the plots (for A2, CA2, TIH2). I hate it when villains all die at the end of the films. I thought it very cool that Abom was left alive, and that the Leader was hinted on. It makes the movie-verse seem much larger.

[The Ace of Knaves]

What about a hint right at the very end that someone working for S.H.I.E.L.D isn't who they appear to be? Leading up to a S.I type scenario in the 2nd Avengers movie and the following solo movies? I know S.I isn't that popular, but I feel adding that dynamic of distrust into a newly formed team, a team that has had it's first success in the first movie, could be quite interesting. They have all finally showed strength as a team at the end after maybe not getting along straight away during the course of the film, then another seed of doubt is placed.

[Rich Santoro]

I have to say, an idea that I had for the Avengers, was to culminate with Cap using Mjolnir (sp?) to destroy the cosmic cube. It would already have been established that only Thor or one who is worthy can wield it, and we even see Hulk fail.

Then in the midst of a fight... Thor drops the hammer, and Cap scoops it up after Pym snuck on the Red Skull's person, to grab the cube and separate them... The cube falls, and Cap smashes it with Mjolnir. Thor looks on with amazement, and sees that the cosmos has revealed to him where he should serve. It is a moment to helps solidify the team, which would still not be completely cohesive throughout the film (Cap coming through as the natural leader, Thor being a god and all not willing to take orders from mortals, Stark's big ego, Pym's little ego). But this final scene seals the deal.

[GNR]

No aliens.

Inject some of the political/international intruige Millar used in Ultimates.

This is a big chance to do something more than just a bunch of super heroes teaming up to fight aliens or villains.

[Drakon]

Avoid the idea of the Superhuman Registration Act. :o

[irapogi]

I have to say, an idea that I had for the Avengers, was to culminate with Cap using Mjolnir (sp?) to destroy the cosmic cube. It would already have been established that only Thor or one who is worthy can wield it, and we even see Hulk fail.

Then in the midst of a fight... Thor drops the hammer, and Cap scoops it up after Pym snuck on the Red Skull's person, to grab the cube and separate them... The cube falls, and Cap smashes it with Mjolnir. Thor looks on with amazement, and sees that the cosmos has revealed to him where he should serve. It is a moment to helps solidify the team, which would still not be completely cohesive throughout the film (Cap coming through as the natural leader, Thor being a god and all not willing to take orders from mortals, Stark's big ego, Pym's little ego). But this final scene seals the deal.

i kinda like this :cwink:

[[A]]

Avoid the idea of the Superhuman Registration Act. :oI don't think they'll ever do that.. Not the current production team, at least

[Drakon]

;16671385']I don't think they'll ever do that.. Not the current production team, at least

Here's hoping.

[Rich Santoro]

Ultimate Alliance 2 deals with it... I can see a future Avengers film going that route.

Not saying that it should, but the writing is on the wall.

Marvel needs a serial... or several, to deal with the 60+ years of stories that have been covered in the marvel universe.

[jimbo 007]

I have to say I really like Rich Santoro's idea about Cap being already revived and in training at the start of/prior to the start. For one; they wouldn't have to spend as much time on Cap's back story and being revived. They could just use some flashbacks, cut scenes and/or dialoge (maybe from Fury) to explain that Cap has been training.

Also, I think it would make more sense if Cap has been in training for awhile. I think it would seem too rushed to have Cap revived and then jump right back into action without a bit of "update" training.

[Jordacar]

I have to say I really like Rich Santoro's idea about Cap being already revived and in training at the start of/prior to the start. For one; they wouldn't have to spend as much time on Cap's back story and being revived. They could just use some flashbacks, cut scenes and/or dialoge (maybe from Fury) to explain that Cap has been training.

Also, I think it would make more sense if Cap has been in training for awhile. I think it would seem too rushed to have Cap revived and then jump right back into action without a bit of "update" training.Except that's kind of exactly what I want to see. Not some smooth transition to modern times. :sleepy:

[Microchip]

Here's hoping.
You'd need a bunch of superheroes to start with. In the Marvel Studios movieverse, you've got Iron Man and Hulk so far, and the government knows who Hulk is and everyone knows who Iron Man is.

It'd pretty much be everyone trying to get Captain America to take off his mask, and that wouldn't make for a very good movie.

I really don't know how they'll pull this off, but I can't wait to see. I'm hoping no Aliens, Thor baddies or robots. The rest I'll be happy to entertain.

[Drakon]

That's why I said "Here's hoping". I don't wanna see it.

[[A]]

plus, imagine a Civil War movie. there's no need for that; Spidey already takes off his mask in every effin' movie

[chris moore]

Except that's kind of exactly what I want to see. Not some smooth transition to modern times. :sleepy:

I want a jarring introduction to the modern world too. If he's already present when the other heroes come together, or he's adjusted to the modern world somewhat then it won't give much chance for his legandary status to come through. The other heroes need to find him and then be in awe of his fighting prowess, or be amazed at how quickly he assumes leadership and how surprised they find themselves that they automatically follow his lead. Basically they all just need to be amazed having only seen newsreels of the living legend. Meeting him over coffee at a briefing after the team comes together would be meh.

[3dman27]

Avoid the idea of the Superhuman Registration Act. :o

a-freaking -men

[chris moore]

isnt much of need for one when there's all of three or four running around

[Spider-Vader]

isnt much of need for one when there's all of three or four running around

Especially since the government already knows who they are.

[jimbo 007]

I can see the importance of showing Cap adjusting to current times as long as the film makers don't spend too much time on it. If they do spend too much time I can see people having the same complaint as with the X-Men films. The complaint that the film centralizes on one character instead of the team as a whole. Don't get me wrong; Cap is my favorite character out of the team but I would hate to see the other characters get pushed to the side. Especialy since they're very crucial to the team and it's formation.

[Jordacar]

It's weird that the Avengers and the JLA are both considered the premiere teams in their worlds, but aliens would be far more appropriate for the JLA movie than for the Avengers movie. :huh:

[Drakon]

It's weird that the Avengers and the JLA are both considered the premiere teams in their worlds, but aliens would be far more appropriate for the JLA movie than for the Avengers movie. :huh:

Unless it was a Kree or Skrull thing.

[Jordacar]

^Kree more likely. But for the first JLA film, aliens seem kindof a given. Every JLA origin story or revamp starts with aliens. But with the first Avengers film, it seems like most people would rather save the aliens for later.

[[A]]

they always go with aliens because it's easier to blame them--

no need to delve into political issues

[louiebling$]

The Marvel universe has plenty of Great Avenger villians that aliens shouldn't be an option.

[marcvader]

Right like an alien villain like Kang.:woot: I definately don't want a world politics heavy story.

[Aesop Rocks]

I'd be happy with the Avengers coming together like in the animated films, Ultimate Avengers 1&2. Minus the Nazi Invader(s) and just have the overall conflict be against The Hulk and minor small personal battles, I would love the first movie to just be them, The Avengers becoming a team. The second one action packed all the way.

[Duskbyday]

I think S.H.I.E.L.D should form the team with Stark as the leader (at first maybe) and reviving America. Bruce Banner is tested and can apparantly control the hulk with a similar result to the animated movie. I think Stark nearly leaves after humiliation etc. Pym getting more confidence and a shocking surprise of a villlain.

[3dman27]

Right like an alien villain like Kang.:woot: I definately don't want a world politics heavy story.

kang is a time traveler not an alien

[chris moore]

As Fury approached Stark to talk to him about the Avengers Initiative, then Stark approached Gen Ross about the same concept, I think for the sake of maintaining this in-continuity/one movie universe thing Marvel are trying to do with all the films since IronMan the Avengers film should and will have the team assembled by SHIELD and Stark if even only a few members.

Therefore the film would do well to begin with the team half assembled. Also, a nod to the 1st issue of Avengers would go down well by having the Hulk being used as a means of starting the mayhem. In the original comic Loki used the Hulk as a means of goading Thor into a fight that he hoped would finish his brother. The same kind of idea could be used here whereby the main villain (who should definitely be putting together his own team so each hero eventually has a nice one on one face off for some much needed solo action time) seeks out the hulk to employ him as a weapon against either Thor (depending on the end of Thor's movie) or the US Government in general as a distraction from his real goal. The hope is that the Hulk will prove powerful enough to distract everyone on the new Superteam being put together so there'll be no one left to oppose the main villain. The result of this initial fight reveals Cap's frozen body and leads into the main villain being an old foe of Cap's (Red Skull, the son of the WW2 Zemo - depends on the villain of Cap's first movie)

[3dman27]

i see the logic here

[marcvader]

kang is a time traveler not an alien
I know he's a time traveler. Is he a human being?

[3dman27]

As i understand it he's a decendant of dr.doom

[marcvader]

I just looked it up and lo and behold he's Reed Richards ancestor. Never knew this.

[chris moore]

double post

[chris moore]

The threat I think has to be something Earthbound for the time being. Even though Thor will be magical in nature and will take some interesting doing to weave it into the so far 'realistic/scientific without being too sci-fi spaceinvaders' Marvel movie franchise, I think aliens or time travellers would be a bit too much for the general audience. Its just too many genres of fantasy trying to mash together.

Its possible to do a supervillain team of some sort with a world threatening plan without dipping into politics like ultimates vol 2, or risking international whiplash by making a particular nation or group terrorists. Therefore having an old nemesis of a bygone era as the villain with power hungry or money hungry (or just plain anarchical) backups/partners is the most pleasing way to go for everyone.

A bioweapon is one way to go for the threat, but then the creation of it really needs to be part of the problem and a supervillain is always going to have a cadre of evil geniuses that can whip one up no worries. So maybe an ancient bioweapon that requires hunting for fragments or information as to its location would be the way to go. That way it could tie into the Thor mythology by the weapon being something smuggled out of Asgard millenia ago before Odin's rule began and hidden within an ancient advanced civilisation. When used with something more manmade and modern like a particular new virus, it makes the virus unstoppable, or selective to everyone but Zemo's choice in master race.

Just spitballing there though - havent given it enough thought for it to be sensible really

[marcvader]

I think team of supervillains vs. a team of superheroes would be too convenient and hokey. I'd like some earthshattering reason to form this team. It can't be something as simple as these villains want to take over the world.

[Jordacar]

If they fight Hulk after Cap is revived, it could be Cap who delivers a decisive blow to bring Hulk down.

[chris moore]

Having just watched Hulk Vs Wolverine, I quite like the idea of a team of supervillains/superpowered henchmen tracking and hunting the hulk in order to use him as a weapon. In the ensuing fight (at the start of the movie), Cap's body is released from the glacier like the deleted scene in Incredible Hulk.

[kedrell]

The Op has raised a good question. Considering the odds that they don't just wish to make one Avengers film, perhaps a gradual escalation of the threats throughout several films is the way to go. The first could be relatively simple, like Ultron or Kang as the main lone villain that they must all team up to stop, then from there graduate to a Grand Theft America scenario in the sequel with something like the Masters of Evil being the threat. Then on to larger threats(possibly from space aliens like the Kree or the Skrulls) and then further beyond that to immense threats like the Beyonder, the Celestials, Thanos powered up to near Godhood or something else along those lines.

Or maybe I'm just whistling dixie.

[Artistsean]

And there came a day, a day unlike any other, when Earth's mightiest heroes and heroines found themselves united against a common threat. On that day, the Avengers were born-- to fight the foes no single super hero could withstand! Avengers Assemble!



I don't know which movie it should be, 1, 2, 3, or maybe 4,
but one of the movies should deal heavily with Hank Pym, AKA Ant Man, AKA Giant Man, AKA Yellow Jacket.
About how unstable he is. About his insecurities. He thinks he is a failure as a husband, as a superhero, and as a scientist.
Parallel that with Ultron, a IA robot Pym created who becomes an enemy of the Avengers and all life. Almost like Ultron is, sort of, an extension of Pym's personality.

[Venom'sDad]

If they fight Hulk after Cap is revived, it could be Cap who delivers a decisive blow to bring Hulk down.

Having just watched Hulk Vs Wolverine, I quite like the idea of a team of supervillains/superpowered henchmen tracking and hunting the hulk in order to use him as a weapon. In the ensuing fight (at the start of the movie), Cap's body is released from the glacier like the deleted scene in Incredible Hulk.


I definitely have been a proponent of Hulk being the baddie, the team is after... but for all of the wrong reasons. I've said this before on the Hulk boards a long time ago.

Look... eventually the Avengers is going to severe ways with Nick Fury once they learn of his true motives. In the mean time, they're being decieved by SHIELD of the nature of Hulk and Bruce being a threat(not knowing that Bruce is trying to keep his condition from being used as a weapon); and after recieving reports that blames Hulk for a number of fatalities and costly destruction, the team goes after him... not knowing there is another that is actually responsible, Ravage, in which they will need Hulk's help

This allows for the team to bring Bruce/Hulk on board once everything is revealed in the end and the team cut ties with Nick. Meanwhile, we could be seeing the semblance of the rise of HYDRA or members of the Syndicate... or if they want to go the way of Thor's villain Loki.

Ravage could be a great setup in TIH2 with Prof. Crawford secretly test those quantities of Bruce's blood on himself and as a cliffhanger or something turns into Ravage fot the Avengers flick, while througout the film(TIH2), Bruce(still a fugitive) has to deal with The Leader and his creation/test subject, Wendigo(forget the curse thing) and Jink Slater as well, who has been hired by an unknown entity(either Nick, General Ross, or HYDRA) to subdue Bruce/Hulk for the ongoing research with the Super-Soldier Project.

This will give TIH franchise a means to conclude its run and finish the Leader story while tying it to the Avengers and Caps super soldier project.

[Artistsean]

In the Hulk movie they mention bringing a team together to fight the Hulk, Tony mentions it to Ross. So its logical to have the team face the Hulk first, even if its a brief scene where the Hulk lays them all out before escaping.
Maybe even show that Stark tried to get Banner to join the Avengers and use the Hulk to protect people. But have Banner/Hulk quickly exit the team for his own reasons.


More about Ultron as an Avengers villain: the Ultron idea is such a good parallel, and goes so well with Hank Pym's resentment of the Avengers. It would fit so well in having Ultron be an Avengers villain, but would also bring the Hank Pym character to the forefront of that Avengers story.
Plus he is such a massive enemy that it would require alll of Earth's mightiest heroes to banned together against the common foe.

Hank is a complex character, he has lots of issues. Including some hatred of his fellow Avengers like Tony Stark, who is rich, successful, and maybe even smarter than Pym. Pym even resents his wife.
Ultron could represent the living embodiment of those all feelings.

[chris moore]

The thing I always thought about the Pym/Strak smartest man thing is that Stark in only a genius in engineering and probably several fields of physics. Hank however is also a robotics expert (implying engineering, mechanics, electronics, computers, math etc) AND a biochemist expert - world renowed in both.

[Artistsean]

But he should feel inferior in comparison, not that its true just that he doesn't see himself that way.

I just read a story where Ant Man talks about how he always wondered what he brought to the table at the Avengers because he wasn't as powerful as the others, but he thought he was the smartest until one day he found out accidentally that Tony Stark was Iron Man.
He says something like Compared to Stark he wasn't a genius.

Even though he is a genius in various fields he feels inferior.


Later on, in whatever film the use Ultron in, the story can focus on Pym's unstableness and his resentments of his fellow Avengers like Stark and Janet. Ultron can be the personification of those feelings.
That could also be the movie where Pym has a break down, or maybe one film earlier, and where he hits Janet.
They should also show that he goes through various Superhero identities, but they might not.

[Jordacar]

I don't think they should have Ultron in the first Avengers movie. I just don't see any way of introducing him right off the bat. The Avengers wouldn't like a very competent team if right after they come together, one of their own creates a villain that can destroy humanity.

I have a radical idea that I know for sure they'll never use: Count Nefaria. No I'm not kidding, just hear me out for a minute, cuz this guy's no slouch.

Luchino Nefaria is this big wealthy aristocrat who's got a big fat company, not unlike Stark. Nefaria's is a private military company with a buttload of defense contracts (there's more of them to go around once Stark Industries stopped making weapons...). He's also secretly consorting with HYDRA, and secretly populating his private army with super-powered bad guys (in violation of the Super-Human Test Ban Treaty). If you've been watching the latest season of 24 (or seen State of Play), you can guess where this is going.

So I'd make taking down Hulk into the Avengers' first big action scene as a team. Meanwhile, there's this slow boil behind the scenes of Nefaria's and his company building power with HYDRA. There'd be plenty of Lethal Legion henchmen (and a few returning baddies from the previous movies), to give our heroes grief throughout. It could all build to an action-packed finale with all the Avengers + SHIELD vs. the Lethal Legion + HYDRA. And (straight out of the comics), Nefaria betrays his own guys when he absorbs and supercharges all their powers into himself, and fights all the Avengers alone.

There's a lot of blanks to fill in there, but I could definitely see it. And for god's sake, I hope the go ahead and just make it 2 1/2 hours.

[Jordacar]

double post

[Venom'sDad]

Jordacar, that idea sounds alot like mine... minus doing all of that in one film. Hulk/Bruce needs to be the fugitive the team is after until they discover that Ravage is the film's real villain, that is the one who needs to be stopped.

Look, the film will already have to deal with characters different personality and attitudes; as well as, the team chemistry meshing together as a unit. In the meantime, as I said in my version, as a set-up for the sequel, we could be seeing the semblance of the rise of HYDRA with A.I.M. developing the high-tech weaponry & super-soildiers and maybe even the Super-Adaptoid who can adapt the power, skill, and make-up of the team. Because, we are only going to get probably 2 Avengers movies with the original cast as they do their solo films.

Artistsean, as far as Ultron is concern... use him for the AntMan film. All that you say that would be good to parallel Pym's character and insecurities... can be done in his own film and some of those issues can still carry over to the Avengers film; entail, his dislike of some of the team.

Ultron would be good at displaying the power AntMan has, bring some intensity to the film, story, and battles, and the seriousness in creating such power and having to sacrifice himself in order to stop it. Otherwise, really, who else would bring any interest to the film and anticipated SFX that should be damn good at the least.

[3dman27]

I don't think they should have Ultron in the first Avengers movie. I just don't see any way of introducing him right off the bat. The Avengers wouldn't like a very competent team if right after they come together, one of their own creates a villain that can destroy humanity.

I have a radical idea that I know for sure they'll never use: Count Nefaria. No I'm not kidding, just hear me out for a minute, cuz this guy's no slouch.

Luchino Nefaria is this big wealthy aristocrat who's got a big fat company, not unlike Stark. Nefaria's is a private military company with a buttload of defense contracts (there's more of them to go around once Stark Industries stopped making weapons...). He's also secretly consorting with HYDRA, and secretly populating his private army with super-powered bad guys (in violation of the Super-Human Test Ban Treaty). If you've been watching the latest season of 24 (or seen State of Play), you can guess where this is going.

So I'd make taking down Hulk into the Avengers' first big action scene as a team. Meanwhile, there's this slow boil behind the scenes of Nefaria's and his company building power with HYDRA. There'd be plenty of Lethal Legion henchmen (and a few returning baddies from the previous movies), to give our heroes grief throughout. It could all build to an action-packed finale with all the Avengers + SHIELD vs. the Lethal Legion + HYDRA. And (straight out of the comics), Nefaria betrays his own guys when he absorbs and supercharges all their powers into himself, and fights all the Avengers alone.

There's a lot of blanks to fill in there, but I could definitely see it. And for god's sake, I hope the go ahead and just make it 2 1/2 hours.
good idea jordacar

[Rich Santoro]

That is a good idea... I wanted to see the story-line where Washington DC is held hostage (which included Nefaria). I think it was the X-Men who stopped him, but it can be moved to the Avengers.

In any event, my thoughts were... with all the current real-world issues around the use of para-military contractors, the story could be that someone has made inroads with several influential senators, the state department, and the DOD to get government security contracts... They get authorization to set up a training facility in VA (near DC), and then there is a mysterious attempt on the president's life. The Secret Service takes lots of casualties, and the president's security has to be augmented. The security contractors in question are brought it with fancy armored vehicles and advanced weapons... and boom, they make their move. Kidnap the president, and forcibly occupy the Pentagon. They set a perimeter with the president, his family, the VP, chief of staff, the joint chiefs, etc... all as hostages. Showing how that if you take the head, the rest will fall (the antithesis of the HYDRA motto).

They have some kind of WMD... and with the high value hostages, they are ready to name the entire US as a ransom. I originally thought that this would be good for the Cap film, with Strucker as the head of the faux security corporation (really a HYDRA operation) and a version of the Death spore would be his WMD (a variation of which has given him longevity). Cap manages to infitrate and free the president, and opens a window of opportunity for the military and SHIELD agents to strike. There is a lot of chaos, gun-fire, etc... Cap defeats Strucker causing HYDRA to retreat since this particular "head" has been neutralized.

The idea could be adapted for a full-on Avengers film rather than just Cap... but maybe with the Nefaria or Red Skull instead of Strucker. All kinds of ideas could be fleshed out...

[Drakon]

I like that idea, Rich, but we also have to keep in mind that if GIJOE does well this summer, then they might not want to do anything with HYDRA, since they're pretty much COBRA anyway.

[Rich Santoro]

^ good point... I didn't think of that.

Damn... most of my ideas for Avengers and Cap deal with HYDRA or AIM as a private army, and a major baddie like Skull or Strucker at the helm. But with GI Joe coming out, those ideas may need to be put back in the box for a while...

[chris moore]

Its cos Hydra is a good vessel for countless, nameless, faceless thugs to beat up. The key is not to put the team together by the military (SHIELD or otherwise) in response to a public, media covered terrorist threat. The team needs to be more of a "Fury's Howling Commandos" type team. Only Nick knows the team exists (despite public knowledge that IM is doing superhero things, the public and indeed the joint chiefs have no idea he's also part of a secret team), and they deal with threats Nick feels can't be handled by normal assets. This allows for no military angle whatsoever. Hawkeye isnt a soldier with a good eye, Cap isnt a re-enlisted soldier with special privilages, Pym isnt on the SHIELD payroll etc.

Something like Hydra can still work. But it needs to be an ancient evil that has only come to the surface because of a few remaining faithful in high places (thereby ensuring resources for whatever they find/try to do) have found something, the lynchpin of their organisation. Maybe the Ionic essence of Count Nefaria, whose powers have made him immortal (albeit at the moment, imprisoned somewhere) and given him a God complex that makes him believe he should have the Earth. Maybe the return of Kang from the future who had in the past posed as Rama Tut and led a golden age of conquest that his followers have long sought to restart and complete

[Venom'sDad]

^ You don't think that's too much to soon? That's alot of characters and plots you suggesting. I don't want the film bogged down and it should simply be more about the team learning to become a team while facing a percieved threat.

Now the plot you devised is very good if you are talking about it development over a series of films. Right now for the film film, IMO, needs to focus on the team as a unit, them learning from failure because of personal demons, ego, leadership, and skills they bring to the table.... again while facing a percieved threat.

[Rich Santoro]

I am not keen on the secret ID idea, since Cap is a icon for public consumption, IM zipping in for battle, not to mention Thor just standing there... would not be low-profile. I suppose the idea that they are a team can still be lept secret...

But, I see the team as having a very public component to them.

[chris moore]

Not secret identities - simply that they are individual heroes who Nick comes to when no one else can do the job. The team comes together that way a couple times (comprised of Tony, Hank, Clint, and Jan) at Nick's request but arent an official team the public cheers for or most likely even see (probably missions in deep jungles, island fortresses etc). Finding Cap, and the emergence of the major world destroying style threat forces the team to become more than individual heroes, more than even an occasional group no one knows works together - they have to become a symbol of what can be accomplished when examples of heroism and good come together and work together.

[Rich Santoro]

I got ya... They would each be special oepratives for unconventional threats, that Fury can "assemble" on an as needed basis. That could work... so long as (as you indicated) it culminates with the Avengers becoming a publically acknowledged team.

[chris moore]

Thats the idea for when they Bring in Cap and Thor to the fold. Having already had an Iron Man movie and the Avengers presmise brought up in that, the team can already be those who arent having their own movies and those who have already come up. Cap and Thor are far enough away from now but close enough to the Avengers movie release itself that they could be the only new recruits (though of course we wont have seen any Avengers exploits so far to have seen the other members yet, save IM and possibly Hulk).

Cap is working espionage missions for SHIELD at the start of Avengers as his way of easing back into the world. Be daft to just throw him back out there as the poster boy fighting bad guys when he doesnt even know what the tv with a door on his kitchen counter is. In the course of one of these missions he comes across the seeds of the major threat. Barely escaping alive he reports back to Nick who the tells him he has just the people for this kind of situation. They meet, they greet, they argue. Hawkeye doesnt want to give up field command but knows in his heart that Cap is the born leader and Clint's really just been holding his seat for him. On investigating aother aspect of the threat they come across Thor battling some raging monster or something and he informs them that one of his Asgardian brethren (I forget who's a seer) had visions of this great evil and Thor volunteered to go.

Etc etc

[Rich Santoro]

^ Pretty good...

[Jordacar]

I've said this before, I don't want a smooth transition for Cap into modern times. I would like them to avoid lame fish-out-of-water jokes, of course, but Cap being brought up to speed on today offscreen wouldn't be very dramatic at all.

[Rich Santoro]

^ to that point... it would be very insightful to recap the significance of so many events that have occurred since WWII. We caould all take a journey through the highs and lows of our nations growth, with him.

[Drakon]

Good idea, Rich!

[Jordacar]

^ to that point... it would be very insightful to recap the significance of so many events that have occurred since WWII. We caould all take a journey through the highs and lows of our nations growth, with him.That would also give the filmmakers a chance to present a few differences between our history and the history of the Marvel U where Captain America existed. Just a thought.

[Rich Santoro]

^ That is a good point... Major real world events could be touched on for their significance and emotive impact... Then some Marvel universe events (like important occurences / people / places... for example relations with Wakanda, or the kind of info brought up via the discussion that Gen. Ross had with Blonsky, or the the award banquet's bio of Stark).

[3dman27]

^ to that point... it would be very insightful to recap the significance of so many events that have occurred since WWII. We caould all take a journey through the highs and lows of our nations growth, with him.

the unreleased 1990's cap movie had a scene like that

[chris moore]

And those scenes are a bit cheesey nowadays

[Drakon]

Because of how they were done. They could be done now, and not come off cheesy at all.

[Rich Santoro]

CM - Not flash back scenes... just revelations, dialogue, even a scene of him learning how to surf the net, watching PBS, reading news paper arcives, etc and getting info...

[Drakon]

ALA Fifth Element, minus the whole being a hot Milla Jovovich.

[Chewy]

If they take anything from Ultimates, it needs to be the scene where Fury escorts Rogers to a cemetery and he basically sees rows and rows of headstones belonging to all of the friends and family he knew.

[Rich Santoro]

^ Kick-ass idea... He would not have a relationship with the fall-out of the War. The half-million casualties would not be known to him. Hell... also, the losses from Nam, and the issues around that war... the cold war, the civil rights movement (he missed all of that), the decadence of the 80s and 90s... the overall change in social norms and culture, the rise of Middle East tensions, Iran-Contra, Nixon scandal, Broadway Joe (he is from NY), and ALL the issues around the Bush admins suspect policies...

[chris moore]

I can see that working. Not a flash of historical images, but a maybe a sort of training montage with scenes of Cap training with special forces guys and kicking their arses, to scenes of trying to use google to fill in his historical gaps and being overwhelmed, back to acrobatic training and beating all course record times, then across to using an ATM to get out some cash and punching the panel cos it keeps asking him a hundred questions before it says CASH. Back to leading a briefing, then cutting to walking past the memorial wall. Things like that.

[Jordacar]

There's a great scene in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes mini where Rick Jones is giving Cap a tour of Washington, and they've stopped at the Vietnam Veterans memorial, and Cap's checking out all the names.

RICK: "Cap...? I was just wondering... how much longer are we gonna be here?"
CAP: "For as long as it takes for me to read every name on this wall. For as long ast it takes to acknowledge every soldier that died...in a war that I missed."

[Rich Santoro]

Yes and yes to CM and Jord... Now we are cooking with gas. I think we are in the ball park of what we hope for from the movie.

[chris moore]

Then be more glad than ever that Marvel Studios is doing this and not Fox or someone. Because if they weren't then trust me, nothing we've all agreed on thats respectful to the character, faithful to the material gone before, and both exciting and logical on screen would be in this movie.

[The Ace of Knaves]

There's a great scene in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes mini where Rick Jones is giving Cap a tour of Washington, and they've stopped at the Vietnam Veterans memorial, and Cap's checking out all the names.

RICK: "Cap...? I was just wondering... how much longer are we gonna be here?"
CAP: "For as long as it takes for me to read every name on this wall. For as long ast it takes to acknowledge every soldier that died...in a war that I missed."

This HAS to be in the film. It simple HAS to.

[Rich Santoro]

Then be more glad than ever that Marvel Studios is doing this and not Fox or someone. Because if they weren't then trust me, nothing we've all agreed on thats respectful to the character, faithful to the material gone before, and both exciting and logical on screen would be in this movie.

Agreed(squared)

[irapogi]

There's a great scene in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes mini where Rick Jones is giving Cap a tour of Washington, and they've stopped at the Vietnam Veterans memorial, and Cap's checking out all the names.

RICK: "Cap...? I was just wondering... how much longer are we gonna be here?"
CAP: "For as long as it takes for me to read every name on this wall. For as long ast it takes to acknowledge every soldier that died...in a war that I missed."

exponentially agreed

[Aztec]

I'd say the last 7 or 8 posts have been really on the mark. I really feel that The Ultimates handled Cap's troubles with the modern world rather well. It was done especially well with Cap's former lover being elderly and married to Bucky. That was a great plot twist.

The Captain America character can be so amazing if he is done right on the big screen. I have faith in Marvel so far, so here's to hoping..

[[A]]

This HAS to be in the film. It simple HAS to.not every actor/director can get that scene right..

[Artistsean]

The first film looks as though SHIELD is putting together the Avengers to fight the Hulk,
but I think it may be that SHIELD is getting the Avengers ready because of the growing threat of super criminals, "threats that no one hero can fight alone."
So I think thats what the story is going to be about. The growin threat of super villains and the need for a team that can protect people from those threats.
But i think the main story should be about Loki as the master manipulator behind the scenes, using the Hulk, maybe even using Fury and SHIELD, and then finally confronting the Avengers himself in the end.

[chris moore]

I'm not entirely sure Loki could be the villain in the Avengers, because he absolutely will be the main villain in the Thor movie and to have him essentially repeat his actions in Avengers either detracts from Thor's victory, belittles the threat level of Loki in Thor, or Narnia/Tolkienifies the Avengers too much too soon

Lets put together a list of Avengers villains associated with the team rather than predominantly with a single hero.
Such as:
Kang
Ultron
Masters of Evil (yeah I know, Zemo's a Cap villain)
Count Nefaria?

Do they actually have any others? Most seem to be someone more involved with a single hero and having to take on the Avengers as an aside (Grim Reaper, Space Phantom, Dr Doom, Egghead)

[Jordacar]

I was just thinking about Loki. Consider this: At the end of Thor's movie, if Loki's machinations lead to Thor getting cast out of Asgard down to Earth, basically that would mean Loki wins that round. So if he comes back in the Avengers movie, that's round 2, which of course would go to Thor and his new friends. So I wouldn't rule out Loki having at least a role in Avengers.

[Rich Santoro]

The only real problem with using Loki, or Leader, or any villain that showed up in another character's solo film, is that it may skew the context of the film toward that character... as though it is about them.

I would be OK with this for Cap... The Avengers needs to be about the team joining, learning to be a team, and getting behind cap as their leader. So a plot that high-lights him just slightly over the others, is fine by me. Which, if I over-analyze the title of Cap's movie (leading with "The First Avenger") then this makes even more sense.

I am pulling for the Skull with a mercenary army, hi-tech AIM weapons, Crossbones in the mix, and potentially the Cosmic Cube. A final scene where Cap smashes the cube with Mjolnir (utterly freaking out Thor... and the audience, since it will have been well-established that even Hulk can't lift it), is what I want. Thor would see it as a sign that fighting along side this mortal, following his mission, his visions, his orders... is where the Prince of Asgard belongs.

[Venom'sDad]

^ You know, I think the Leader, indirectly, will have more to do with the Avengers than Loki will. Loki will be purely a Thor villain.

[Artistsean]

In the comics Loki inadvertently brings the Avengers together while he is trying to lure Thor to his doom by manipulating the Hulk.
I could see this working for the first film, and then Loki leaving the Avengers alone. Maybe even purposely bringing them together to occupy Thor's time.

[3dman27]

In the comics Loki inadvertently brings the Avengers together while he is trying to lure Thor to his doom by manipulating the Hulk.
I could see this working for the first film, and then Loki leaving the Avengers alone. Maybe even purposely bringing them together to occupy Thor's time.

nice thinking

[chris moore]

Kinda depends on whether a threat comes up and Fury puts together/deploys the team, or whether someone who's not a member yet seeks out help on something they've almost been killed by

[Blackman]

I think the plot should be epic to say the least.

The film starts with Captain America getting thawed out after the events of his film. The first people he meets are Tony Stark, Nick Fury, Black Widow and SHIELD who have an offer for him.

Even though he feels disconnected and shocked by the fact that he is in a new time, he reluctantly agrees to be in the Avengers.

Stark takes Steve to the Avengers mansion where he meets the current members of the literally brand new group: Henry Pym, Wasp, War Machine, Hawkeye, Black Panther. Immediately there is tension between the members, But they pull together in order to find the remaining member Thor. After meeting the god, Thor initially refuses to join. But the Avengers cannot dwell on that long, because they get a call that SHIELD has located him. The Incredible Hulk.

The team move in to detain the Hulk. The team is so awkward. Capn and Iron Man clash because they both try to be leaders, Hawkeye's archery clashes with Black Panther's close range fighting, War Machine and Henry/Wasp clash over different battle mindsets, and Thor disregards the fact that he is causing more damage than Hulk. Eventually the Hulk escapes and The team and Thor head back to their base with their heads down.

Each teammate blames each other for the failed mission. SHIELD thinks of pulling the plug until they get a call. Recently caught felon Sam "Snap" Wilson has valuable information.

Wilson gets interrogated by Fury,Capn, Stark and (good cop, bad cop, badder cop). In exchange for a clean slate and freedom, Wilson says that he saw the terrorist group "HYDRA" lead by Viper plotting on an island. SHIELD releases him and they start making plans to assault the island.


Captain reads Wilson's file and about how Sam Wilson used to be a community leader until his parents were gunned down. Captain urges Sam to do the best for his parents memory and do right by them. The words resonate with Wilson but initially he walks away

But their plans are interrupted by another Hulk attack. The group initially refuses ready to disband and go their own ways. But eventually knowing that Hulk cant be stopped on their own, they once again reluctantly move to capture Hulk.

Capn steps up to the leadership role and the team captures the Hulk. But there is no time to celebrate, The Avengers then move to stop HYDRA. Wilson dawns a costume and becomes Falcon and the team starts an epic battle on the island.

The team is doing well but they know that they cant win. Bruce Banner in custody breaks out of jail, transforms into Hulk and helps the Avengers win the battle.

After the victory, Banner willingly goes back in SHIELD custody and the team celebrates the dawning of the great superhero team

-------------------------

I like this idea because it leaves rooms for spin offs (ahem Black Panther) if there need be. Falcon could be in a Captain America movie.

[protocida]

Bruce Banner (Edward Norton) is still on the run from the american government, and now that he has learned how to control his inner monster, the Hulk, he's nowhere to be found. Nick Fury (Samuel L. Jackson), director of SHIELD, an secret organization that protects the world from extraordinary threats, is called and told to form a team to find and capture the Hulk "before he causes more harm". Aided by the army, led by Gen. Thaddeus Ross (William Hurt) and the Air force, represented by Col. James Rhodes (Don Cheadle), Fury reunites Captain America (Jason Lewis), Iron Man (Robert Downey Jr.), Wasp (Grace Park), Giant Man (Chris Vance) and Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson). To aid the so-called "Avengers" on their task, an advanced artificial inteligence developed by dr. Hank Pym, the Giant Man, called Ultron, is upgraded in SHIELD's mainframe, updating all the vehicles, weapons and computers. Ultron tracks Hulk to New York and a big battle ensues, ending with Banner overcomed and captured.

Banner is captive in SHIELD's headquarters and the Avengers become a public sensation, but things don't last. Captain America grows suspicious of SHIELD's intentions and discovers Ultron has taken control of all the technology in USA, and plans to kill millions of people and substitute them for his copies. And he plans to use the Hulk as his warhead, threw mental control, and, because of that, he murdered the president and placed an copy in his place, to manipule SHIELD to do his bidding.

With their whole technology turned against them, SHIELD is ravaged, and the Avengers must bend together as a real team to fight Ultron. And they won't do it alone. Thor (Chris Hemsworth), having refused Fury's invitation at first, comes back to fight Ultron, who can destroy the whole Earth if set free.

Humans VS. Machines.

Who'll win?

[[A]]

There was an entry about this same subject at slashfilm.. but they removed it :huh: don't know why

[Venom'sDad]

Interesting.... not a bad story.

[marvel001]

i'd love ultron to be in it, i honestly don't want the hulk to be the villian

[chris moore]

Don't want Ultron to take over all the technology in the USA, don't want a man Vs machine who'll win type scenario - this aint Terminator you know

[Jordacar]

I'd save Ultron for part 2 at least. Let the first one end with the Avengers as big time public heroes (having to fight Ultron would not help that case); if the second one ends with their reputation getting wrecked (like Bats at the end of TDK), Ultron would be perfect to bring that about.

As cool as it would be to see Ultron, I want to see him done right. Have Pym building Ultron in the first one (like a nice Batman Begins-Joker tease).

[Blackman]

^^^Good idea

I say make Hydra the villains

[protocida]

The Chitauri would be good.

Loki and the Wrecking Crew too.

[chris moore]

Some major elemets for me:

No aliens in this first one
No thousand strong SHIELD agent backup
No Terminator rip off
If the Hulk is not an immediate team member, have him as the target of the villain as a weapon rather than an outright villain
No guns on Hawkeye
Preferably a villain with superpowered inner circle and plenty of cannon fodder to beat up

[Aztec]

Some major elemets for me:

No aliens in this first one
No thousand strong SHIELD agent backup
No Terminator rip off
If the Hulk is not an immediate team member, have him as the target of the villain as a weapon rather than an outright villain
No guns on Hawkeye
Preferably a villain with superpowered inner circle and plenty of cannon fodder to beat up

I agree with all of these except the Hawkeye one. Yes Hawkeye should use a bow and arrow where convenient, but let's be honest it's the 21st Century. How many warriors do you know today that use bows and arrows? He's not even super powered for gosh sakes. How is he supposed to fight against supervillians with a bow and arrow? Or why would SHIELD, the most high tech spy agency on the planet, hire a guy with 16th century weaponry? It's just silly. The bows and arrows should make appearances where it is appropriate but he should use guns as well. Once again, Millar's Ultimates got it right IMHO.

[Jordacar]

Some major elemets for me:



No aliens in this first one

No thousand strong SHIELD agent backup

No Terminator rip off

If the Hulk is not an immediate team member, have him as the target of the villain as a weapon rather than an outright villain

No guns on Hawkeye

Preferably a villain with superpowered inner circle and plenty of cannon fodder to beat up
^I nominate Count Nefaria, the Lethal Legion and HYDRA.

[chris moore]

^Thats a few too many separate villains really. Its three villainous entities. Zemo as the figurehead, the masters of evil as his superpowered inner circle, and various fanatical operators, tech and security personnel for Zemo's base/company would work more fluidly. Zemo as a central villain has all the elements:

1) Not too spacey, not too magicky.
2) Draws on Cap's past from his fighting Zemo XII back in WW2 who at the time was an important figure in Hitler's own inner circle but believed in ruling it all, not eliminating the useful just because they were born outside of Hitler's definition of worthy race.
3) Has direct comic connections (Zemo running Hydra would likely outrage the geekiest fans, and confuse those movie goers who choose to pick up related TPB's after having seen it)
4) Masters of evil provides a pre-existing comic villain team of enough raw power that automatically SHIELD or the army (or of course any single hero) cannot withstand
5) Zemo not being superpowered makes him a bad guy more likely to surround himself with lackeys to defend him, and to have amassed a wealth by illicit means to enable his plans rather than being able to rely on being a powerhouse/godlike figure
6) Allows for numerous locations as Zemo has been both a castle dweller and a jungle lair guy. His family ancestry allows for centuries of Zemo property to have been hidden, used or created for him to just move into or use as satellite bases making it harder to find him and ensuring a global chase not confined only to America

Oh, and Aztec - Hawkeye without Archery skills so incredible and off the wall that negate enemies with guns just makes him a SHIELD agent - so why is he an Avenger at all? We already have a superb athlete, acrobat and fighting human in Cap - so why does a non-legend, non superpowered, average skilled sprays everyone with bullets SHIELD agent get picked for the roster? Its not like he's even the leader or a former general or something - Nick is.

Same arguement would go for Bullseye now wouldnt it? Why would anyone hire a bloke to take out a target with a paperclip when you can hire someone cheaper with a gun with a targetting scope from the blocks away? Its because he's so good with any object (or arrows of course) that he makes a guy with a gun look like an ameteur.

[The Ace of Knaves]

I agree with all of these except the Hawkeye one. Yes Hawkeye should use a bow and arrow where convenient, but let's be honest it's the 21st Century. How many warriors do you know today that use bows and arrows? He's not even super powered for gosh sakes. How is he supposed to fight against supervillians with a bow and arrow? Or why would SHIELD, the most high tech spy agency on the planet, hire a guy with 16th century weaponry? It's just silly. The bows and arrows should make appearances where it is appropriate but he should use guns as well. Once again, Millar's Ultimates got it right IMHO.

Well the bow and arrow could work I think. He's got his grappel arrow, sorta like Batman's grappel gun. He's got his trick arrows like high explosive, smoke grenade and all that.

He isn't going to be running head long into battle is he? He would be more of a tactical fighter. Using his grappel arrow to get somewhere up high, then firing his high explosive arrow into a crowd of enemies or something. Could be very effective, there is many different uses for it, if you use your imagination.

[protocida]

Zemo would be cool, but I think there are better villains.

[chris moore]

Haters of the Hawkeye bow and arrow must be Ultimate readers over classic Avengers readers.
There are certain Ultimate elements to this movie based on Sam Jackson being Fury, Tony having killed in his movie (though one hopes he goes for more non-lethal options in IM2), and the look of Cap in his WW2 movie undoubtedly following his Ultimate chronology.
However, the tone should be more 616 in terms of non-lethal wherever possible, which offers the chance to demonstrate Hawkeye being able to hit any point of a person with an arrow to wound - not headshots with a pistol.

Zemo has potential, but it depends on his look and motivation. What would the goal of the villain be?

[protocida]

Hawkeye should have weapons that shot non-lethan concussive darths. And a bow and arrows.

[Rich Santoro]

The whole point of HE using a bow, is that he serves the team in a tactical way. Different arrows that do different things would be an asset to the team who is already full of some serious power. They don't need a guy with a gun. Besides, BW will be a secret ops gun-slinger.

They need a versatile player that will do other things besides just fight... Someone who can deactivate electronic servailance or weapon systems with an electro arrow... repel a squad of bad-guys with a tear gas arrow... drop a gate or tunnel ceiling with an explosive arrow... infiltrate quitely with a grapple arrow... signal the team with a flare arrow... plus have some cool tech on his belt that allows him to press a button so that the desired arrow rotates into grabbing position. Instead of a mask, he has mutli-purpose goggles that have infared, UV, a HUD, and a targetting system.

Giving him a gun just reeks of low creativity.

[Artistsean]

The reason Hulk, manipulated by Loki, would work is because both characters wouldn't need much (if any) introduction in the movie.
Everyone knows who Hulk is, he has already had two movies,
and after the Thor movie everyone will know who Loki is.

If you use a different bad guy(s) for the movie you have to take the time in the movie to introduce them and establish their characters.
Hulk and Loki, it will have already been established.

[Blackman]

Hulk the reluctant villain
Hydra the final and main villain

[chris moore]

You almost have to assume however that although Loki won't die at the end of Thor, he will be banished to the room with no doors or somewhere. If he's already out by the time of the Avengers movie (not long really), then it will make the audience go "Wow, Thor really sucks at beating the villains" or "Didnt Odin just imprison that guy?" or "Huh. Didnt I hear that guy was just in that Thor movie? Don't they have any other bad guys?"

[Artistsean]

They can handle it the same way the comics did,
Loki manipulates Hulk, and the fight between Hulk and the Avengers, from the Isle of Silence (or whatever he is banished to) until Thor accidentally frees him in order to punish him for his manipulating Hulk and the Avengers.

[protocida]

:yay:

[protocida]

You almost have to assume however that although Loki won't die at the end of Thor, he will be banished to the room with no doors or somewhere. If he's already out by the time of the Avengers movie (not long really), then it will make the audience go "Wow, Thor really sucks at beating the villains" or "Didnt Odin just imprison that guy?" or "Huh. Didnt I hear that guy was just in that Thor movie? Don't they have any other bad guys?"
Actually...

... In Thor's 1° draft, from 2007, Loki runs away and hides on Earth in the ending.