View Full Version : Anyone here find this movies villain situation a bit difficult?
Goodfellas
03-13-2009, 04:36 PM
In a sense that there arent to many great villains that would make for a good movie
I know Spider-man has a great comic book rougue gallery but honeslt i feel alot of them dont translate well to film in a snse that they might come across stupid or corny
We already saw the big 3 in terms of villains(Dr.Octopus,Green Goblin,Venom) and of course Sandman and while Doc Ock and Green Goblin were done right obviously Sandman and Venom were on the bad end of just a really poorly written script and plot.
I always though Electro would make for a great villain but thanks to Tim Story i doubt that will happen since from some odd reason he gave Dr.Doom electorcity powers(IMO one of the dumbest decisions in comic book movie history)
I think Lizard would maybe come acorss a little to far fetched even for Raimis movies, i mean a man lizard on the loose? idk maybe thats just me i mean it sure is better than Morbius ill say
Kraven, personaly opinion i just dont find him that interesting
Scorpion i think could maybe work but theres the issue of can he hold a movie on its own
vulture, he maybe as well could work but idk the idea of Spider-Man battling some old guy in a bird suit might come across a bit corny
Shocker and Rhino are just thugs and probably would be that interesting to the general public
This movie would have been perfect for Venom to be the main villainif raimi hade put Sandman and GG2 as the villains in spidey 3 and Brock would be a charcter thus setting him up for 4
Idk maybe its just me i just iam not feeling the rest of the villain rouge gallery in terms of what kind of story they can bring to the table
If i hade to pick id maybe go with Scorpion or Lizard
venom892
03-13-2009, 04:41 PM
I believe that Lizard would the obvious choice.I believe an adaptation of Kraven's last hunt with Lizard in place of Vermin would be perfect.But I don't know if Rami would like the dark tone of the story or if he has even heard of it.
webhead731
03-13-2009, 04:52 PM
I'm not worried about it.
His rogues are still fresh and in plenty. Sandman and Venom were handled fine to me. Venom just needed more.
Goodfellas
03-13-2009, 04:59 PM
I agree that the only thing Venom needed was more screentime which is why i rather have hade him first appear as the main villain spidey 4
I actually lked topher grace as venom
boog_spin
03-13-2009, 05:18 PM
so far i would like to see the lizard, electro, the vulture, and maybe the scorpion before they stop making these
Goodfellas
03-13-2009, 06:10 PM
I honestly feel like were gonna see Electro which sucks but only person you can blame reall is tim story or who ever though of that dumb idea to give doom that power
Goran
03-13-2009, 07:18 PM
My worry is that they won't use villains they used fot the games...
I always think: Why should they repeat themselves?
Did they use Ock in the first film's game?
Did they use venom or sandman in the second film's game?
Venom 1988
03-13-2009, 07:36 PM
I think Lizard would maybe come acorss a little to far fetched even for Raimis movies, i mean a man lizard on the loose? Too far fetched for a series feature an alien organism suit and a man made out of sand? If anything The Lizard more realistic.
Kraven, personaly opinion i just dont find him that interesting Thats a pity for you, bringing in Kraven would mean adapting one of the best Spidey stories ever.
Scorpion i think could maybe work but theres the issue of can he hold a movie on its own From this point foreward, there isn't going to be solo villains.
vulture, he maybe as well could work but idk the idea of Spider-Man battling some old guy in a bird suit might come across a bit corny
Put wings on the Green Goblin and take off his helmet, and you have the same deal.
This movie would have been perfect for Venom to be the main villainif raimi hade put Sandman and GG2 as the villains in spidey 3 and Brock would be a character thus setting him up for 4 No Brock nor the symbiote shouldn't have been in SM3 at all.
Idk maybe its just me i just iam not feeling the rest of the villain rouge gallery in terms of what kind of story they can bring to the table It is just you, Spidey has got one of the best rogue galleries around. Your not thinking outside the box.
Venom 1988
03-13-2009, 07:37 PM
My worry is that they won't use villains they used fot the games...
I always think: Why should they repeat themselves?
Did they use Ock in the first film's game?
Did they use venom or sandman in the second film's game?
I'm not understanding your point. Care to rephrase it. .
Joker
03-13-2009, 07:42 PM
Lizard, Scorpion, Electro, Kraven.....we have plenty of villains to choose from.
Arcturus
03-13-2009, 07:43 PM
Plus we have Walrus, Typeface, Hypno Hustler and other big league villains.
SuperFerret
03-13-2009, 07:52 PM
Big wheel!
Daredevil_2003
03-13-2009, 08:04 PM
I like the Kraven Last Hunt with Lizard inserted idea. Great story and it would finally stop with all the cockteasing about Doc Connors.
But, knowing Raimi's love for the silver age, as well as his love for melodramatic cheese, I doubt that will happen...
NewYorkSpider
03-13-2009, 09:16 PM
I'm sure they'll choose The Lizard for #4. There's also the chance they won't choose him. Only time will tell.
I don't think the rogue situation for Raimi's "Spider-Man" films is nearly as difficult as for Nolan's "Batman" films, especially since Raimi doesn't draw that pesky 'realism' line...all bets are off in the Spidey films as far as the fantastic...that plus the fact that Spidey still has a large number of great unused rogues allows me to NOT worry.
:up:
thejon93
03-13-2009, 09:57 PM
I only find that the die hard fans really see this situation occuring. Be patient. How can it be a proble when we know pretty much nothing about it.
JerseyJoker
03-14-2009, 11:34 AM
I really hope they incorporate a low level villain like Shocker, who probably wont have a whole feature around him, as an opening villain plot.
What i mean, i would love to see maybe Shocker robbing a bank to open Spidey 4 or 5, and Spidey stops him and webs him up, hanging from a light post or something.
Its a nice kick start to a movie, shows that there are other baddies running around, while also throwing the audience fully into the life style of Spider-Man.
Spider-ManHero12
03-14-2009, 01:06 PM
Spidey's rogues gallery is fantastic. Plenty of Villians. :up:
Daredevil_2003
03-14-2009, 02:05 PM
I really hope they incorporate a low level villain like Shocker, who probably wont have a whole feature around him, as an opening villain plot.
What i mean, i would love to see maybe Shocker robbing a bank to open Spidey 4 or 5, and Spidey stops him and webs him up, hanging from a light post or something.
Its a nice kick start to a movie, shows that there are other baddies running around, while also throwing the audience fully into the life style of Spider-Man.I like. More franchises need to do this. Shows there's more to the hero's routine than just sitting around waiting for the next big villain to show up. Only Spider-Man 2 (no villain fight but same general concept with him working his day job and saving the kids, etc) and TDK, to the best of my recollection, have done this.
Most movies start with everything peachy keen until the big villain shows up, like nothing else goes on. I dunno, it's minor but it adds to the immersiveness of the world, which is a big deal to me.
I like. More franchises need to do this. Shows there's more to the hero's routine than just sitting around waiting for the next big villain to show up. Only Spider-Man 2 (no villain fight but same general concept with him working his day job and saving the kids, etc) and TDK, to the best of my recollection, have done this.
Most movies start with everything peachy keen until the big villain shows up, like nothing else goes on. I dunno, it's minor but it adds to the immersiveness of the world, which is a big deal to me.
This was always my biggest issue with the Schumacher Batman movies...it's like nothing bad happened in Gotham City in between the thwarting of Riddler and the emergence of Mr. Freeze.
And even worse, when the main villain showed up, Batman only focused on him...I always got the feeling that low level criminals would take that distraction as an opportunity to strike.
brinomite
03-14-2009, 09:43 PM
first of all, i'd enjoy seeing the lizard as much as feel as though raimi ruined this series by giving into fanboy ********...but if anyone feels THIS has any merit, on the daily show's interview with billy crudup (dr. manhattan in watchmen), crudup mentioned that in one of his upcoming roles he plays somewhat of a chameleon...now, while the character he portrays in his next film is J. Edgar Hoover, its possible he was merely being facetious...but one has to wonder...the way in which he annunciated it sounded like somewhat of a hint.
SpaceWay2009
03-14-2009, 10:03 PM
I really hope they incorporate a low level villain like Shocker, who probably wont have a whole feature around him, as an opening villain plot.
What i mean, i would love to see maybe Shocker robbing a bank to open Spidey 4 or 5, and Spidey stops him and webs him up, hanging from a light post or something.
Its a nice kick start to a movie, shows that there are other baddies running around, while also throwing the audience fully into the life style of Spider-Man.I agree. It sets the tone of the movie and shows how Spider-Man has to deal with daily thugs or super-villains that aren't that too important.
Spiderine
03-14-2009, 10:21 PM
He has interesting villains and it is up to the writers to bring about the best qualities for the plot.
CaptainStacy
03-14-2009, 10:26 PM
Lizard, Scorpion, Electro, Kraven.....we have plenty of villains to choose from.
Agreed. I would LOVE to see Electro, Mysterio, Lizard, etc., all done with today's special effects. :wow:
Batman137
03-14-2009, 10:27 PM
Me and my dad talk about this a lot. He told me something that I sort of agree with. I think there should only be one villain per movie. Look at the series history, SM1 and SM2 both had one villain...good movies. SM3...3 villains...and...well...lets just say it was a boo movie :). I think that a sequel can be great with just one villain
SpaceWay2009
03-14-2009, 10:28 PM
^Yeah, and the big budget that this movie would have.
The Lizard is the obvious choice, and I hope it's him. But if not, I'd be happy with any of the following: Chameleon, Scorpion, Shocker, even Morbius.
CaptainStacy
03-14-2009, 11:24 PM
Me and my dad talk about this a lot. He told me something that I sort of agree with. I think there should only be one villain per movie. Look at the series history, SM1 and SM2 both had one villain...good movies. SM3...3 villains...and...well...lets just say it was a boo movie :). I think that a sequel can be great with just one villain
Meh. The X-Men and Blade movies have had success with multiple villains. I think it's all in the writing.
thejon93
03-15-2009, 01:01 AM
The Lizard is the obvious choice, and I hope it's him. But if not, I'd be happy with any of the following: Chameleon, Scorpion, Shocker, even Morbius.
Hell ----ing no, thank you.
Hobgoblin-demon
03-15-2009, 09:55 AM
I think that Scorpion and Vulture are good options. They should also consider bringing back Dock Ock, or even GG, if they could do it right. Hobgoblin could still be done if they developed the character. Carnage would be a good option. I'd even go so far as to say that Chameleon and the Jackel could work. I've always liked the idea of a Jackal/Carnage storyline. Of course you probably couldn't do that with the tone and the continuity that we currently have.
Hell ----ing no, thank you.
He can be done very cool IMO. He's my fourth choice, though.
thejon93
03-15-2009, 01:46 PM
He can be done very cool IMO. He's my fourth choice, though.
Well, we all have our own opinions, I suppose. Afterall, I so badly want to see Chameleon turn up as a main villain in one of the installments.
carnage899
03-15-2009, 03:15 PM
nobody said nothing about Hobgoblin. i think he can be great as main villain with Shocker, Chameleon or Tinkerer working for him. but yea for Spider-Man 4 i think the villain is Lizard with Kraven coming to hunt him.
The Villain
03-15-2009, 03:51 PM
Love to see Mysterio get the Raimi seal of approval - I do think Raimi would do an wonderfull script for him but the cost may be alot for developing stunning Illusions.
What story? I'd hope for elements used from ASM13 would be useable.
Lizard & Kraven or Chameleon nice villains too.
:grin:
Well, we all have our own opinions, I suppose. Afterall, I so badly want to see Chameleon turn up as a main villain in one of the installments.
Did you not notice who was first on my list?
thejon93
03-15-2009, 04:14 PM
Did you not notice who was first on my list?
Oh... whoops:o
NewYorkSpider
03-15-2009, 04:16 PM
I'd love to see Scorpion if The Lizard isn't in SM4. I'm not a big fan of Morbius. Hell, I'd rather see HobGoblin or Carnage before him.
I believe that Lizard would the obvious choice.I believe an adaptation of Kraven's last hunt with Lizard in place of Vermin would be perfect.But I don't know if Rami would like the dark tone of the story or if he has even heard of it.
I agree, though I do think the story would have to be toned down quite a bit for a commercially successful Spider-man movie that intends to make money off of toys.
Kraven's Last Hunt has been my favorite Spidey story for 20 years. I'd love to see a big screen variation of it.
Hectorminator
03-18-2009, 01:49 AM
In a sense that there arent to many great villains that would make for a good movie
I know Spider-man has a great comic book rougue gallery but honeslt i feel alot of them dont translate well to film in a snse that they might come across stupid or corny
We already saw the big 3 in terms of villains(Dr.Octopus,Green Goblin,Venom) and of course Sandman and while Doc Ock and Green Goblin were done right obviously Sandman and Venom were on the bad end of just a really poorly written script and plot.
I always though Electro would make for a great villain but thanks to Tim Story i doubt that will happen since from some odd reason he gave Dr.Doom electorcity powers(IMO one of the dumbest decisions in comic book movie history)
I think Lizard would maybe come acorss a little to far fetched even for Raimis movies, i mean a man lizard on the loose? idk maybe thats just me i mean it sure is better than Morbius ill say
Kraven, personaly opinion i just dont find him that interesting
Scorpion i think could maybe work but theres the issue of can he hold a movie on its own
vulture, he maybe as well could work but idk the idea of Spider-Man battling some old guy in a bird suit might come across a bit corny
Shocker and Rhino are just thugs and probably would be that interesting to the general public
This movie would have been perfect for Venom to be the main villainif raimi hade put Sandman and GG2 as the villains in spidey 3 and Brock would be a charcter thus setting him up for 4
Idk maybe its just me i just iam not feeling the rest of the villain rouge gallery in terms of what kind of story they can bring to the table
If i hade to pick id maybe go with Scorpion or Lizard
I think I know what you were getting at, but your arguments for your case are not very strong.
To me, basically, it's hard to make any unused villain seem relevant to Peter Parker/Spider-Man. This doesn't always have to be the case, but it begs the question, what does the audience care if not even one villain has no connection to Spider-Man?
The big three are the big three for a reason: Osborn represented Pete's personal life, dad of the best friend, and (in the comics) killer of the first girlfriend. Octavius was Peter gone wrong, he was science and had an ego, and had arms to match. And Brock was Bizarro Spider-Man, he was a selfish jerk, willing to cheat, and (in the comics) bigger, stronger, and knew Pete's secrets.
Everyone else is a glorified thug, which presents a problem. I don't want three more Sandman scenarios, where it's revealed Vulture was actually in love with Aunt May before she married Ben Parker, Chameleon was actually responsible for killing Peter's birth parents, Scorpion was actually in the first Daily Bugle scene in the background, but we just missed him.
Personally, I don't think any villains beyond the combo of Lizard/Kraven can carry a movie by themselves, or necessarily work great together, either. Well, maybe Vulture and Electro. They kind of have a thing going on. But after that we're gonna get a bunch of Batman & Robin movies; whatever villains are left are gonna team up.
Bottom line: I love guys like Kraven, Vulture, Electro, Sandman, Rhino, Scorpion, etc.. But I think to keep the franchise going strong you need to plan ahead, start putting together a coherent "Sinister Six" for the big finish, and bring back some (or all) of the big three in some capacity that makes sense, is relevant, and contributes more to the story than had they otherwise never come back. Which I think they would. Especially a Osborn-led six. Just my thoughts.
Daredevil_2003
03-18-2009, 07:13 AM
I don't think the villains have to have a personal connection to the hero to be interesting and carry a story. That helps, obviously, but forcing it like Sandman is just a detriment. If the threat is good enough, and the set pieces exciting enough, you don't need that personal connection.
I agree on the Sinister 6, though, but I really don't see anyway to bring Ock back, and I don't see anyway to bring Normy back without some contrived device like what they've used in the comics 50 times.
Shockdingo
03-18-2009, 11:15 PM
I would just love for them to make a freakin' blurb about the vault so that we don't have to keep killing off all the villains. I mean all it takes is a news report in a simple scene.
LightningFlash
03-18-2009, 11:27 PM
Raimi makes it "difficult" only because he tries to get every villain as close to Peter's life as he can get, which is most of the time, not a good idea.
If he had a different idea for Sandman, then he needs to stick with the idea of having just a "stranger" villain, and not let anyone make him do otherwise.
Episode29
03-19-2009, 02:22 AM
I'd looove to see Scorpion. Problem with him, though, is that the effects which would be utilized would too similar to Doc Ock. As it seems that each film chooses a villain with a new, exciting angle, I fear that Scorpion's killer mechanical tail will be viewed as old hat.
drmick
03-19-2009, 07:23 AM
I don't think the villains have to have a personal connection to the hero to be interesting and carry a story. That helps, obviously, but forcing it like Sandman is just a detriment. If the threat is good enough, and the set pieces exciting enough, you don't need that personal connection.
I'm pretty sure in most movies, there's some connection between the baddie and the hero, assuming the villain is human (as opposed to an Alien, a monster, a time-travelling cyborg etc).
(You will note that subsequent films to those examples kept building on the relationship between the "monster" and the hero/heroine).
Lizard is a shoe-in as he ticks the boxes. But will he be the main protagonist, or a secondary baddie? And can his story be sufficiently different from that of Otto Octavius in SM2 to persuade the audience?
Daredevil_2003
03-19-2009, 07:36 AM
There often is, but what I'm saying is it doesn't have to be such a tight personal connection as Raimi has tried to do, succeeding in Doc Ock but failing miserably with Sandman. Having them all be tied into Peter's personal life so heavily just feels forced and far too convenient.
Jick09
03-19-2009, 01:37 PM
I'd looove to see Scorpion. Problem with him, though, is that the effects which would be utilized would too similar to Doc Ock. As it seems that each film chooses a villain with a new, exciting angle, I fear that Scorpion's killer mechanical tail will be viewed as old hat.
Not that there isn't some truth in it, but I never looked it this way. I don't think most of the audience would. They would see that as a tail of a man acting like a Scorpion. Besides, he can be way more agile than Ock and faster and stronger than Spidey. You can add plasma bolts shots from his tail, too.
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