Hulk vs Thor

[spider-neil]

am I the only one who as bitterly disappointed how thor was handled?

[TheCorpulent1]

Nope. I thought Hulk vs. Thor was one of the biggest disappointments Marvel's ever put out because the story and the presentation of Asgard were decent, but the whole thing was ruined by how utterly pathetic they made Thor.

[TheOriginalman]

Nope. I thought Hulk vs. Thor was one of the biggest disappointments Marvel's ever put out because the story and the presentation of Asgard were decent, but the whole thing was ruined by how utterly pathetic they made Thor.I personally think that it should have been more of a fight, and like both characters. I'm not really saying that Thor should have won. It's just that Thor is one that would make the Hulk work hard for his win.

[TheCorpulent1]

That's what I meant about Thor being pathetic. Sure, Thor can lose to the Hulk; that's fine. Just don't make it such a ridiculously one-sided match. There was never once a point in any of their big fight scenes where I thought, "Holy crap, Thor might actually win!" The Hulk completely dominated him every time and that, frankly, just ruins the whole thing because it takes what should be an exciting fight between two equals and makes it a boring, predictable bully scenario. Sure, Thor's gonna keep fighting, but it's very clear throughout the movie that he stands no real chance whatsoever.

[spider-neil]

exactly. hulk was always going to win but make it close for pete's sake.

[lowly marvelite]

Yep...another inexplicable loss for the God of Thunder. Heck, Wolverine who has no superhuman strength fared better than Thor did...when is Marvel gonna give Thor any respect?

[Panthro]

Yep...another inexplicable loss for the God of Thunder. Heck, Wolverine who has no superhuman strength fared better than Thor did...when is Marvel gonna give Thor any respect?
It's kind of a Batman/Superman situation, isn't it? The considerably less powerful but more popular "bad ass loner" gets to hold his own better than the more powerful but less popular hero. It's similar to watching Superman get pummeled by a D-list character.

And it was ridiculous how those fights were handled. Sure, Thor took initiative in the 2nd fight, but the tide still turned against him too easily. Thor's supposed to be one of the few heroes who can really go toe-to-toe with the Hulk & not get completely bulldozered right off the bat. Hell, even his girlfriend Sif handled herself better right before Hulk body slammed her. I think Asgard as a whole should have put up a better fight. Sure Hulk is Hulk, but Asgard is loaded with immortal warriors who were fighting inhuman monsters long before Hulk's alter ego Bruce Banner was even born.

[TheCorpulent1]

Except Superman is popular enough that he still comes out on top against those D-listers most of the time. He may not make it look as effortless as Batman, but he gets it done. Thor seems to get his ass kicked almost every time he fights anyone (although that may just be my natural cynicism coloring my perspective).

[OnedetachedonE]

I wish Marvel would hire back Stan Lee to write Thor, then he'd be written the way he's supposed to be written...as the most powerful superhero of all time. Ever.

[Panthro]

You know it's funny, Balder was voiced by Michael Adamthwaite, and he voiced Thor for about a minute & a half in that "Next Avengers" flick, as well as Namor the Sub-Mariner for 2 episodes of "Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes". I wonder if they weren't happy with his Thor from NA...

So, what did you all think of Graham McTavish as Loki's voice, Kari Wahlgren as Amora & Grey DeLisle as Sif?

[Vartha]

Except Superman is popular enough that he still comes out on top against those D-listers most of the time. He may not make it look as effortless as Batman, but he gets it done. Thor seems to get his ass kicked almost every time he fights anyone (although that may just be my natural cynicism coloring my perspective).
No Thor's been shafted plenty of times.
HOPEFULLY that'll change after the movie.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Yea Hulk literally pissed all over Thor, that shouldn't be happening.

I'm not a big fan of either character, and my knowledge of them isn't great, but I know that Thor should be able to put up a much, much better fight than that.

And yea Wolverine getting Hulk down onto his knees at one point was just ridiculous...

[Panthro]

Yea Hulk literally pissed all over Thor, that shouldn't be happening.

I'm not a big fan of either character, and my knowledge of them isn't great, but I know that Thor should be able to put up a much, much better fight than that.

And yea Wolverine getting Hulk down onto his knees at one point was just ridiculous...
Tell me about it, and he didn't even slash out Hulk's knees either. If he'd at least slashed old Jade Jaws at the knees, I could have bought it. But two slashes in the chest & Hulk's on his knees? That's bull****.

[TheCorpulent1]

I chalk it up to Kyle and Yost being primarily X-Men writers.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Well it did look like Wolvie stabbed him in the heart area. Can Hulk's heart be pierced? Does he even have a heart?

But still, he shouldn't be able to put Hulk on his knees.

[Rich Santoro]

Ahah... here is where I can b!+ch about that DVD...

The way Thor got dealth with was a HUGE disappointment. I got my family to sit down and watch, and my wife asked, "Who is stronger." I said that Hulk might be actually stronger, but Thor is more powerful. He can fly, and hurl lightning, conjure storms... I said, "I would pick Thor in squeaker."

Then when Hulk smacked him around, she was looking at me like, "You don't know what the hell you are talking about."

[TheCorpulent1]

That's what annoys me the most about this sort of thing in movies. Everyone and their mother who's never picked up a comic now thinks that Thor is a pussy that the Hulk could easily stomp all over, even though they did at one point have an actual, exciting rivalry where their battles could go either way.

[Panthro]

That's what annoys me the most about this sort of thing in movies. Everyone and their mother who's never picked up a comic now thinks that Thor is a pussy that the Hulk could easily stomp all over, even though they did at one point have an actual, exciting rivalry where their battles could go either way.
Strikes fear into your heart for what the future will hold in the Avengers film when Thor will have to go toe to toe with the movie Hulk, doesn't it?

[Rich Santoro]

Strikes fear into your heart for what the future will hold in the Avengers film when Thor will have to go toe to toe with the movie Hulk, doesn't it?

Yes... it does...

[TheCorpulent1]

Not really. I expect it now.

[Lobo]

Well, HOPEFULLY, if they use the Hulk/Loki plot for Avengers live action, they'll have Hulk taking on all Avengers and winning, UNTIL Thor arrives, at which point things start to go in their favor, as he stands toe to toe with Hulk, and at the least stalemates him, while the team as a whole brings him down.

[Rich Santoro]

That would be great... It allows some to draw the conclusion that Hulk was still stronger since the rest of the team had to intervene... others may think that Thor could have ended it, and the rest of the team ended the fight too early... That kind of speculation is always good for a hook and plot device.

[JerseyJoker]

Hulk vs. was made so Deadpool's greatness could steal the show. -_-

[Panthro]

I chalk it up to Kyle and Yost being primarily X-Men writers.
Delayed response I know, but yeah, that could be one of the reasons for Thor's poor showing here.

Well, of Thor's showings in the DTVs so far, which would you say gave him the best character design -

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo261/8-2-B-4-9-5/152.jpg
Ultimate Avengers Thor

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo261/8-2-B-4-9-5/01ABeardedThor.jpg
Avengers Next Thor

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo261/8-2-B-4-9-5/01ABustingOutThor.jpg
Hulk Vs. Thor

[Rich Santoro]

HvT

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep, gotta go with Hulk vs. Thor's design. The classic Kirby look works well in animation.

[spider-neil]

Yep, gotta go with Hulk vs. Thor's design. The classic Kirby look works well in animation.


for me the definitive thor will always be simonsons, you look at kirby's asgard for instance and it looks like some place george jetson would live.
I give props to jack but when I think of thor, of where he lives, who he interacts with, who his enemies are I picture simonson's drawings.

[TheCorpulent1]

I think of a lot of different artists' interpretations for various bits of Thor's world. I think of Simonson's Asgard, Coipel's Asgardians, Romita Jr.'s Hela, etc.

[Panthro]

I don't know... I think Ultimate Avengers did a better job of giving Thor proper muscle definition than the Kirbyesque design of Hulk Vs.

[TheCorpulent1]

I suppose, but I'm going by the total package. I'd take a thinner Thor over an Ultimate Thor any day. ;)

[spider-neil]

I think of a lot of different artists' interpretations for various bits of Thor's world. I think of Simonson's Asgard, Coipel's Asgardians, Romita Jr.'s Hela, etc.


I love coipel's castles but I still perfer simonson's asgard because it looks like vikings would live there. the only thing I think is better than simomson's anything is coipel's new costume and coipel's loki (better boobs lol!).

when they make the movie they could do far worse than make simonson a consultant to the art director.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think Simonson's costumes would ever work on film. They're great, but the size of some of those helmets is just impractical.

[spider-neil]

I don't think Simonson's costumes would ever work on film. They're great, but the size of some of those helmets is just impractical.


I kind of agree with that, but it is very 'viking'. A long as they look like vikings I'm not too bothered. coipel's hiemdal looks fantasic as did bor.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I hope the movie preserves more of a viking look than the comics often do. It'd go a long way toward making the film stand out against its epic fantasy brethren, since movie designers tend to favor more medieval European looks for most epic fantasies.

[spider-neil]

Yeah, I hope the movie preserves more of a viking look than the comics often do. It'd go a long way toward making the film stand out against its epic fantasy brethren, since movie designers tend to favor more medieval European looks for most epic fantasies.


its win win as far as I'm concerned if keneth goes down the 'marvel' road with thor I'm happy and if he is more ridgid with norse mythology I'm happy. the one thing I want a near perfect reproduction is thor's hammer. I want it to look exactly like 616 canon hammer. that hammer is iconic (amongst comic fans).

[TheCorpulent1]

It'd be nice, but I get the feeling we may have to deal with some cosmetic changes to the hammer. The hammer and the costume are things I'm trying to stay as open-minded as possible about, because if you go in expecting them to completely adhere to the 616 comics in those areas, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

[spider-neil]

It'd be nice, but I get the feeling we may have to deal with some cosmetic changes to the hammer. The hammer and the costume are things I'm trying to stay as open-minded as possible about, because if you go in expecting them to completely adhere to the 616 comics in those areas, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.


not bothered about them changing thor's outfit at all, thor's outfit isn't like spidey's or superman's totally iconic so they can take huge liberties all I want is

a) a red cap
b) a least 2 silver disks on his chest these can double as cape fasteners
c) a silver helmet with wings on the sides

other than that they can go buck wild. I'll be disappointed if they can the hammer though. the only change I would personally make to the is is change the 'whoever...' text on the side to norse runes.

[Panthro]

So, how about that Amora the Enchantress? Poor girl never even got a thank you for giving Thor the literal kiss of life. I guess that's what she gets for siding with Loki. :cwink:

I listened to the audio commentary a while ago, I remember they kept joking around about what an idiot Thor was to choose Sif over Amora. I guess Thor prefers brunettes. :cwink:

[TheCorpulent1]

Or chicks that actually love him and aren't as likely to stab him in the back when they're bored. ;)

[Rich Santoro]

... and chicks with the warrior spirit... nobility, and as Corpulent alluded, honor, integrity and trustworthiness.

[spider-neil]

I had no idea the enchantress was freya, i.e. the ones who gave the gods their immortality by giving them golden apples every day.

[TheCorpulent1]

Idunn, actually. And she wasn't until that Ages of Thunder retcon.

[spider-neil]

Idunn, actually. And she wasn't until that Ages of Thunder retcon.


sorry, yes idunn although she is also known as freya as well. You're correct in that AoT is where I got that information. makes sense as freya and idunn were supposed to be the most beautiful women in all of asgard in norse myth.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, right, Idunn and Freya were interchangeable in AoT for some reason. I don't think that was the case in the myths.

[Spike_x1]

I was never really in to Thor before seeing Hulk Vs., but I've got to say that after I saw it, I couldn't buy Avengers: Disassembled: Thor and the first volume of the Straczynski relaunch fast enough. :up:

Having said that, I now have a basis to agree with you guys that the fight should been far less one-sided. Still, the movie was pretty darn entertaining from a newbie's perspective. Yeah, the fight was really lopsided (I'm going to excuse it by assuming that the writers were the kind of Hulk fans who think that anger is infinite, so without Banner inside and regulating Hulk's anger/strength, it just made his strength infinite. Whatever), but the movie wholly succeeded in immersing me in the world of Asgard and it's characters. I loved the setting and all of the actors, and they're all almost exactly the voices that I envision the characters having when I read them in the comic. The only exceptions to that are Fred Tatasciore's Hulk and Bryce Johnson's Bruce Banner. As good as they are, Neal McDonough and Lou Ferrigno from the 90s cartoon (and the live action movie in Lou's case) are my fav voices for Banner and Hulk.

[Panthro]

Or chicks that actually love him and aren't as likely to stab him in the back when they're bored. ;)
So it's been established that Amora does not really love Thor, correct? Please forgive my ignorance, I'm still training to be a Thor fan (still on Walt Simonson's Volume 2).

Is the Ages of Thunder retcon any good?

[TheCorpulent1]

It anchors the Enchantress in the myths. I don't think that was particularly necessary, but it's done in a decent way. Although, you'd think that if Amora = Idunn, she would withhold the golden apples from the other gods a bit more often, since she's kind of a b****.

[spider-neil]

It anchors the Enchantress in the myths. I don't think that was particularly necessary, but it's done in a decent way. Although, you'd think that if Amora = Idunn, she would withhold the golden apples from the other gods a bit more often, since she's kind of a b****.


she's ruled by odin and when he tells you to do something you do it.

[TheCorpulent1]

I suppose. She was never quite as much of an outsider as Loki, although she wasn't afraid to cross Odin and side with Loki if she thought she had a chance of winning.

[Panthro]

It anchors the Enchantress in the myths. I don't think that was particularly necessary, but it's done in a decent way. Although, you'd think that if Amora = Idunn, she would withhold the golden apples from the other gods a bit more often, since she's kind of a b****.
Hmm. Interesting.

So would you say that Amora the Enchantress qualifies as a "stalker" towards Thor?

[TheCorpulent1]

Not really. She's not consistent enough to be a stalker. She just fancies him every now and then and makes his life miserable trying to win him over. More of a nuisance than a villain on her own, really. It's only when Loki drags her toward more dangerous games or the Executioner's around to kill people on her whims that she becomes a real threat.

[Panthro]

Not really. She's not consistent enough to be a stalker. She just fancies him every now and then and makes his life miserable trying to win him over. More of a nuisance than a villain on her own, really. It's only when Loki drags her toward more dangerous games or the Executioner's around to kill people on her whims that she becomes a real threat.
Hmm. Somebody should have told the "Hulk VS. Thor" writers that, because, still being very much a novice in the ways of Thor, that was not the impression I got watching their 45 minute feature.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, you've gotta sort of expect that things'll be condensed or even ignored in such a short production compared to a 40-year comic franchise. I think Amora does potentially love Thor in her own way, but she knows she can never have him and she made the whole seductress angle part of her core a long, long time ago, so she deals with his tacit (and sometimes outright) rejection by flitting from one fling to the next. She goes back to the Executioner a lot (whom I think she also loved to some extent, in an imperfect, ego-driven sort of way), but she's also had relationships with Heimdall and others.

[Panthro]

Well, you've gotta sort of expect that things'll be condensed or even ignored in such a short production compared to a 40-year comic franchise.

Well this is true.


I think Amora does potentially love Thor in her own way, but she knows she can never have him and she made the whole seductress angle part of her core a long, long time ago, so she deals with his tacit (and sometimes outright) rejection by flitting from one fling to the next. She goes back to the Executioner a lot (whom I think she also loved to some extent, in an imperfect, ego-driven sort of way), but she's also had relationships with Heimdall and others.
Hmm. Narcissism. Or low self-esteem.:cwink:

So, how about that Sif? Not a bad design, but her face was a little too rectangular in some shots.

Would voice actor Matt Wolf have been better suited to voicing Balder instead of Thor?

[TheCorpulent1]

I agree about the rectangular-ness. Not just for Sif either. Everything looked a little blocky at times.

Not sure about Wolf as Balder. Balder didn't really do much, so I imagine I wouldn't really have noticed him in that role.

[Panthro]

I agree about the rectangular-ness. Not just for Sif either. Everything looked a little blocky at times.

I have to admit I'm not a fan of rectangular character designs. It was one of the things that annoyed me in pretty much all the 1996-2005 DCAU series where almost everyone seemed rectangular in some way. I know the 1992 Batman series went for a more stylized-expressionist look, but somehow the characters still looked more... human, as opposed to almost statues.


Not sure about Wolf as Balder. Balder didn't really do much, so I imagine I wouldn't really have noticed him in that role.
I suppose not. Watching Wolf in the DVD making of, I wonder how well he'd do with a role that didn't require a thick accent of some sort.

[ultimatefan]

I actually thought this was overall the better of the HUlk Vs. films, it seemed more concerned with the story and not as much with gore value as the Wolverine one.

I think it had the better use of Hulk, with Banner being sent to his own idea of Heaven and being forced to sacrifice it for the greater good.

But I also felt they could have made better use of Thor. There wasn´tmuch for him in terms of characterizarion.

[pkwfireteacher]

I can't believe how Thor was presented. They made him look like a bee-otch! It was pitiful.

PKW

[kamillon66]

Ahah... here is where I can b!+ch about that DVD...

The way Thor got dealth with was a HUGE disappointment. I got my family to sit down and watch, and my wife asked, "Who is stronger." I said that Hulk might be actually stronger, but Thor is more powerful. He can fly, and hurl lightning, conjure storms... I said, "I would pick Thor in squeaker."

Then when Hulk smacked him around, she was looking at me like, "You don't know what the hell you are talking about."

hey speaking of the dvd, wasn't there a preview for a thor animated movie
whatever happened to it?

[TheCorpulent1]

It's going to be released closer to the live-action movie's release date. It's about Thor's youth in Asgard.

[kamillon66]

It's going to be released closer to the live-action movie's release date. It's about Thor's youth in Asgard.

AH I was wondering why I hadn't seen it around.