Avengers cartoon [Archive] - The SuperHeroHype Forums

Dread

04-19-2009, 12:28 AM

Hawkeye is a favorite character of many writers, and only was missing from the two ULTIMATE AVENGERS films due to the short run times of both. I have little doubt he would show up before long in an Avengers show.

Yost usually knows his stuff, but hopefully he can take it up to another level if he wants to match the standards set by JLU. Basically, every episode has to feel like X-MEN KINGBREAKER #4. ;)

By default, though, unlike the X-Men, this show only has to surpass AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND from 1999, which is a very low bar. Hey, this stuff matters. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN had to stack up to the 1990's X-MEN and the 21st century X-MEN: EVOLUTION. This new AVENGERS show in 2012 doesn't have nearly as large a shadow to overcome. :up:

My biggest pondering, besides whether Thor will actually be of decent power level for once (he was a bit of a puss in ULTIMATE AVENGERS, and did little more than take punches in HULK VS. THOR), and how they explain keeping Hulk around for long. Historically Hulk founded the team, but didn't stay very long; gone in canon in AVENGERS #2, although the Joe Casey "Year One" style Avengers mini from 2004 or so helped pad that out a bit more. I will be curious how they justify keeping him around.

Frankly, though, I often tired of the "dumb Hulk on the run from the military" angle to the character as I have been shown it about a million times, so it might be interesting seeing Hulk, well, NOT be that for a change. I mean, I enjoyed the Pantheon era in INCREDIBLE HULK, albeit that was "Smart Hulk". It would be fun if Hulk in this show had more than one personality; I imagine Fred Tatasciore would use his "Beast" voice for "Smart Hulk" if he had to. Much as Steve Blum is "Wolverine for life" as far as recent animation is concerned, I am sure Fred is considered "Hulk for life", which suit me fine. I am curious how they will cast the rest of the Avengers.

Thor was voiced by Dave Boat in the ULTIMATE AVENGERS films, and he's reprising the role in that kiddie Marvel Super Heroes thing coming on CARTOON NETWORK, but I am not sure if he will voice Thor in other stuff. Matthew Wolf just played Thor in HULK VS. THOR and may be returning for some other stuff. The Yost/Kyle team usually like to reprise or reuse the same actors they know are good or like or whatever. Michael Adamthwaite played Thor in a cameo in NEXT AVENGERS (he may be "best" known for playing my man Colossus in X-MEN EVOLUTION and Namor in FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES), and he was fine.

Justin Gross played Captain America in the ULTIMATE AVENGERS but many thought he sounded too "young" so I kind of doubt he would be recast, but who knows. I could imagine Grey DeLise asked to reprise her role of Wasp from those DTV's, though.

Hank Pym hasn't shown up in animation very often in the 21st century. Nolan North played him in the ULTIMATE AVENGERS films and is a popular actor in the current Marvel TV-verse. If they wanted to reuse his actor from MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE, they could go with Jerry Houser. John Payne II played Pym in a guest stint in FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES but he's from Canada's Ocean Group troupe, so he is unlikely.

My "dream voice" for Iron Man would be Robert Hays, who played the character for the 1994-1996 era IRON MAN show (as well as in guest appearances in INCREDIBLE HULK, SPIDER-MAN and FANTASTIC FOUR shows of that era) and to this day is my de-facto Iron Man voice. Marc Worden played Iron Man in three of Lion's Gates' DTV's for Marvel, so he could be considered the most "experienced" actor to have played Stark in animation right now. Tom Kane played an elder Stark in NEXT AVENGERS and he's a dark horse candidate (especially as he also played Century and HOMER in that 90's IRON MAN show, too).

There was a preview teaser for this show that popped up on YouTube late last year for maybe a week before being zapped; the character designs looked better in motion, although Iron Man's helmet is still a little funky. Said teaser animation also confirmed Kang in his classic Kirby outfit.

scatterax

04-25-2009, 11:52 PM

captain america's the best looking char in that pic. hope the show turns out really good.

TheVileOne

04-26-2009, 05:02 AM

Matt Wolffe was the better Thor. So I hope he's Thor here. I don't care for ultimate Thor, and Hulk VS. was basically a very good interpretation of 616 Thor.

We know Kang will be a villain since he was in the short promo video that Marvel had up on their website before taking it down.

Besides that, the video also seems to hint that Iron Man is not just the founder of the Avengers BUT the LEADER as well.

This is very interesting. I know fans are used to Cap being Avengers leader. And Cap is on this team. But when you look at Wolverine and The X-men, I don't think this is a coincidence. Iron Man is now one of Marvel's top franchise characters with the live action movies. So why not make him Avengers leader. Of course that was a promo vid and things could change vastly in a couple years, so we shall see.

I recall Yost saying they want to use like all the classic Avengers villains. So besides Kang that means Ultron, Grim Reaper, Masters of Evil, Zemo, Wrecking Crew, and Korvac are probably all pretty good bets. So with Ultron they should figure out ways to work in Vision, Wonder Man, etc.

I like this lineup, especially Hulk being in there. The main reason being is that we don't get to see Hulk as a hero often enough, this is a good way to do it.

Dread

04-27-2009, 03:00 AM

I do like Captain America's design. He has a Jack Kirby thing with the mask and that looks good. The designs look better in motion, although Iron Man's helmet still looks weird.

The short teaser that popped up briefly on YouTube last year did sort of imply that Iron Man was the leader. Unlike WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, this looks to be a choice with more roots in history rather than simply caving to popularity. Iron Man technically founded the Avengers; NOT Captain America. In the comics, he was "retroactively" made a founder after the Hulk quit, but that isn't quite the same. Plus, Iron Man had led the Avengers at various points in time either alongside Cap, or when Cap was absent, or the Western Branch for long stretches of time (which Stark eventually turned into Force Works for a while anyway). Throw in the two years that Captain America has been dead and unable to lead anything, and Iron Man leading the team makes more sense than, "Oh, because his movie is big". In the comics, Captain America was technically "recruited" or found by a functioning team of superheroes and evolved into that role as leader over time. Hell, the Wasp even led the team for some stretches.

I wouldn't be opposed to Matt Wolfe as Thor. He was fine in HULK VS. THOR.

I am iffy on Hulk being a part of the team; HE seems to be on the roster because of popularity and recognition more than anything else. Yes, Hulk founded the team in canon, but quit by the second issue and while the Avengers chased after him for a bit, and he occasionally teamed with them, Hulk was never really a member for long. That said, I have seen Hulk's status quo of "misunderstood monster chased by the military" so often on TV and in movies that I honestly don't mind an attempt to have him on a team. ULTIMATE AVENGERS tried, but punted with the sequel DTV (and, to be fair, the moral was that Hulk was too unstable, that Banner could never control him). I am curious how this show would do it. I hope it is not handled tritely, that Yost doesn't just sub in Hulk for a dumber version of The Thing from his FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES series from 2006. There should be more to it. There's potential, though, and I am very curious about it. I don't mind something new with the Hulk on TV.

Yost, even at his worst, usually knows his history, so I have no doubt a lot of fun nods to history and past villains. My concern is that Yost has to have a high level of intensity and quality to every episode. Marvel's goal for this show shouldn't be to merely match JUSTICE LEAGUE, but to finally surpass it. That means larger than life plots, mature characterization that doesn't confuse excellence for mediocrity/"the bare minimum" like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN often does, and for crying out loud, a story board team that has seen an animated fight on TV within the last 10 years and can actually pace something that doesn't scream of 1998, but of the modern times, like on SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN (probably the best non DTV show from Marvel that had exceptional action scenes to it). It can be done.

I have high hopes for this series.

TheVileOne

04-27-2009, 12:45 PM

Surpassing Justice League wouldn't be a very hard thing to do.

Dread

04-27-2009, 07:47 PM

Surpassing Justice League wouldn't be a very hard thing to do.

And yet Marvel has yet to do so with a team show, have they?

I mean, to be fair, the 90's X-MEN cartoon literally defined what a team show should be. It was the best there had been up until that point and even to this day is among the Top 5 of team superhero cartoons from the West. Therefore, you could argue that JL/U raising that bar again was natural, a reversal of the tide.

JLU ended in 2006. To be fair, that hasn't been as long ago as it seems, so Marvel needing some time to rise to the challenge is not too unreasonable.

WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN clearly isn't the show that is going to give JLU a run for it's money, not unless some serious writing styles and tactics are changed season 2 . AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES, though, is another animal entirely than the X-Men, with another team in charge of it. Kyle and Johnson call the shots more in W&TXM than Yost does, here, Yost will supposedly run more of the show alongside that former TEEN TITANS director. The Avengers have been more akin to the JLA's counterpart than the X-Men were, anyway; some could argue the X-Men were more akin to Marvel's version of the Doom Patrol, who came out around the same time and were similar at the onset (a team of weird teenagers led by a mysterious guy in a wheelchair on missions). W&TXM is virtually humorless, while A:EMH, like JLU, could have room for some levity in between the world-saving battles.

Chris Yost has some brilliance in him, too. I hope he brings his A-Game to this show. Because if WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN has taught me anything, it is that even with the best acting and animation team in the biz, pedestrian writing will only get a show so far. THE BATMAN is another example, albeit one of a poorer show than W&TXM.

lixdexia

04-28-2009, 05:24 PM

Besides that, the video also seems to hint that Iron Man is not just the founder of the Avengers BUT the LEADER as well.

This is very interesting. I know fans are used to Cap being Avengers leader. And Cap is on this team. But when you look at Wolverine and The X-men, I don't think this is a coincidence. Iron Man is now one of Marvel's top franchise characters with the live action movies. So why not make him Avengers leader. Of course that was a promo vid and things could change vastly in a couple years, so we shall see.
maybe, but wolverine and the x-men proves imo that when the dynamics are changed due to the popularity of certain characters the results are sub-par at best. not to get on a soap box, but... the company wide "boy scout-ification" and propagandizing of wolverine over the last decade has stripped the character of any edge or interest he may have once held. personally i blame the x-men movie and more specifically hugh jackman for this. i understand that a tamer character is easier to market to children, but marvel already had/has a plethora of characters suited to that purpose in place.

ok, back to the avengers, i don't really have a problem with ironman being the "leader" of the avengers here; it's cannon, it fits his character, and it makes sence that he'd want an oversight position since he's bank rolling the whole thing. however i hope they don't go overboard with it, i'd like to see a similar leadership dynamic between cap and ironman as between batman and superman in jl where the latter is the "leader" but the former holds a similar level of respect and actual feild leadership status

TheVileOne

04-29-2009, 01:09 AM

Dread

04-29-2009, 03:02 AM

maybe, but wolverine and the x-men proves imo that when the dynamics are changed due to the popularity of certain characters the results are sub-par at best. not to get on a soap box, but... the company wide "boy scout-ification" and propagandizing of wolverine over the last decade has stripped the character of any edge or interest he may have once held. personally i blame the x-men movie and more specifically hugh jackman for this. i understand that a tamer character is easier to market to children, but marvel already had/has a plethora of characters suited to that purpose in place.

ok, back to the avengers, i don't really have a problem with ironman being the "leader" of the avengers here; it's cannon, it fits his character, and it makes sence that he'd want an oversight position since he's bank rolling the whole thing. however i hope they don't go overboard with it, i'd like to see a similar leadership dynamic between cap and ironman as between batman and superman in jl where the latter is the "leader" but the former holds a similar level of respect and actual feild leadership status

Hugh Jackman? I mean while I do agree with some of your point, Jackman can only act with what he is written and what the director directs. I think he has played Wolverine well and if a director didn't want Wolverine, say, looking like he about to cry after he stabs Rogue by accident or bawling when Xavier gets vaporized, they won't let him. It just seems akin to blaming the issues of WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN on Steven J. Blum. Unless you don't like the actor's performance, they can only do so much. Sure, Jackman's tall, but Wolverine hasn't been drawn like he is really 5' 3'' since John Bryne left the book. I just don't get the logic of this criticism.

The rest, though, I understand. Wolverine became popular by being a certain type of character, and yet after he has become popular, that character has slowly been replaced with character bits from other X-Men, and/or more plot convenient stuff to make Logan seem more ideal. The movies are responsible for this to a degree, although the first was in pre-production in 1998-1999, when Marvel was not fiscally solvent and there was no assurance that X-MEN wouldn't bomb, much less do very well, even with a budget of $80 million (average for summer blockbusters of 2000); using Logan as the lead in character was probably pragmatism. The problem was the sequels never could manage to disentangle themselves from Wolverine worship, or rather the movie audience wasn't expected to. But, I remember people mocking Logan's softer edges by calling him "Grandpa X-Man" even in the late 90's.

Captain America and Iron Man should have a relationship similar to Superman and Batman; one of mutual respect but also one of perspective difference.

In your opinion ;) .

Yes, true.

I still have a lot of problems with the Justice League series. And while it does raise the bar in many ways, it was still supremely flawed in certain execution.

Sometimes it seems to me that you haven't forgiven that show for JUSTICE LEAGUE season 1, which admittedly was not terribly good. Or perhaps episodes like "HAWK AND DOVE". But, overall, JLU is a great show that had flaws. W&TXM so far is an above average show with moments of brilliance, but they are just that so far; moments. Some clips from, say, "DIVIDED WE FALL" are DL'd and sung as gospel by legions on YouTube (often viewed by more people than are buying JLA monthly). Does any bit of Marvel animation that isn't Spectacular Spider-Man made within the last 7 years match? No. Not yet, anyway.

They are rising to the challenge. In itself making a show like Wolverine and the X-men with such longer episode seasons is pretty ambitious. Avengers will be the first actual Avengers series in over 10 years.

I refuse to count AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND from 1999. That was more of a bad cough than a "show". :p

And yes, Marvel animation is getting more ambitious. The Teen IRON MAN seems a step backward (or from a past era), but by and large they are moving on. Longer seasons, more serial storytelling, etc. All this works in AVENGERS: EMH's favor.

Oh boo-urns to this. You speak of JLU like its Raiders or the Holy Grail.

Marvel Animation has struggled woefully to try to match the heights attained by Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Dwayne McDuffie and other writers on that show and their "DCUA". They're trying, and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN practically attained that; to prove life is cruel, the odds of having a 3rd season are in much doubt. But I believe this is the show where they can be attained. Not with an X-Men show, which is a different sort of genre or universe than JLA or Avengers.

I'm not sure how you can say that about X-men when you have Toad who is a pretty blatantly goofy and comic relief character. Not to mention Blob and his spring season or Quicksilver breaking into a high security prison just to humiliate Toad.

There were some lighthearted character moments but by and large the tone of W&TXM was very grim and serious. Which is fine when things are good. Sometimes it borders on pretentious. Despite the serious tone of the 90's X-MEN, the characters often were making puns (most of them horrible by today's standards). W&TXM whether one loves it or not is probably the most serious X-Men cartoon yet.

Count me out of lumping Wolverine and The X-men pedestrian. The show produced results. It gave us a type of X-men series we hadn't seen in a long time.

Indeed it did, but whether that was good or bad is up to opinion. I found the first season a good effort but really nothing to sing praises about, unless expectations were low. It didn't suck. It was above average, above material like THE BATMAN or even most of LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES. But it'll need a majorly awesome second season to reach the top shelf. An above average debut season is fine, but it is only that; above average. A B on a first test is fine, but it is not an A+, and I don't confuse the two.

AVENGERS: EARTH'S GREATEST HEROES will hopefully start hitting home runs much sooner. If SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN taught me anything, it is that with the right talent and effort, expecting excellence from the pilot all the way to the end of 26 episodes shouldn't be as rare as it is, and is more than attainable. Yost knows his lore and TEEN TITANS often had a lot of energy (the director did a few episodes of TT), so it will be interesting to see how it goes. The storyboarding had better be excellent.

TheVileOne

04-29-2009, 05:17 PM

Sometimes it seems to me that you haven't forgiven that show for JUSTICE LEAGUE season 1, which admittedly was not terribly good. Or perhaps episodes like "HAWK AND DOVE". But, overall, JLU is a great show that had flaws. W&TXM so far is an above average show with moments of brilliance, but they are just that so far; moments. Some clips from, say, "DIVIDED WE FALL" are DL'd and sung as gospel by legions on YouTube (often viewed by more people than are buying JLA monthly). Does any bit of Marvel animation that isn't Spectacular Spider-Man made within the last 7 years match? No. Not yet, anyway.

Those were problems but they were the least of my problems with the show as a whole.

I refuse to count AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND from 1999. That was more of a bad cough than a "show". :p

Whatever. I'm not like you where shows don't count. I still count them no matter how bad because like it or not they existed. Unlimited and MTV Spider-man were horrible shows but I still count them and compare since Spider-man shows are made so often.

And yes, Marvel animation is getting more ambitious. The Teen IRON MAN seems a step backward (or from a past era), but by and large they are moving on. Longer seasons, more serial storytelling, etc. All this works in AVENGERS: EMH's favor.

I'm not a big follower of Iron Man animated adventures but I credit the show for trying something different rather than simply re-doing what came before. Same with Spectacular which gave us a fully teenaged high school student Peter Parker instead of a college student/graduate or young adult male in his 20's.

Yost also deserves more credit considering he worked on the brilliant HULK VS. animation.

Dread

04-29-2009, 11:27 PM

Those were problems but they were the least of my problems with the show as a whole.

Admittedly off topic, but as JLU is an example that this show will have to match and surpass, what were your problems with that show as a whole? I don't mean that question as a snark, I'm curious.

Whatever. I'm not like you where shows don't count. I still count them no matter how bad because like it or not they existed. Unlimited and MTV Spider-man were horrible shows but I still count them and compare since Spider-man shows are made so often.

MTV SPIDER-MAN was GOD compared to SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED or AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND. Hell, it probably had the most depressing ending to a CGI animated segment since the end of CONKER'S BAD FUR DAY.

I do count those shows, I just don't count them to excuse absences or missed opportunities. "No, there's no reason to have Scarlet Witch on the Avengers; she was JUST on their cartoon a mere 10 years ago!" My reply would be like, "yeah, but I'd like to seem them do it, and it, y'know, it NOT SUCKING" and you fail to realize that. No idea done before is worth doing again, even if it is to do it RIGHT, I guess; I respectfully disagree.

I'm not a big follower of Iron Man animated adventures but I credit the show for trying something different rather than simply re-doing what came before. Same with Spectacular which gave us a fully teenaged high school student Peter Parker instead of a college student/graduate or young adult male in his 20's.

Major difference; Peter Parker's story began in the 60's with him in high school. You could argue SS-M returned him to his roots there on TV.

Iron Man didn't. And it is a shame that Kid's WB's "teenagers starring in every show we have by royal decree" motto has been so easily forgotten, but making Iron Man a teenager is about as stock a network demand there is, besides talking animals. Granted, I haven't watched the show, and the premire scored better ratings than even WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, so whatever they're doing was successful.

Yost also deserves more credit considering he worked on the brilliant HULK VS. animation.

Quite true. HULK VS. was quite good. I think he was credited with HULK VS. THOR a bit more than HULK VS. WOLVERINE, but both were quite good, the cream of Marvel's animated DTV's so far, easily. And, hey, I've given Yost props for FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH, which was actually fun if you didn't take it as seriously as JLU (which it wasn't supposed to be). He has his great moments. AVENGERS: EMH, though, requires having that energy in every episode. Can Yost and company rise to that challenge? That's the million dollar question. It's possible. Yost knows history and if he has a good board artist can pace a fight. I think he CAN pull it off. The question is, will he?

He seems more experienced with the X-Men, though. Thor was nothing but a punching bag with an electric shooting hammer in HULK VS. THOR and hopefully his power level would be more akin to a Superman of the Avengers here; he, Hulk, and Iron Man would be the real "heavy hitters".

TheVileOne

04-30-2009, 02:27 AM

Admittedly off topic, but as JLU is an example that this show will have to match and surpass, what were your problems with that show as a whole? I don't mean that question as a snark, I'm curious.

-Pointless romances to nowhereville! No resolution to the Shayera/Vixen/John triangle. It went nowhere. Lame. Wonder Woman/Batman. Green Arrow/Black Canary. The only relationships that got the most closure were freaking Huntress and Question and . . . BRANIAC 5 and Kara. Are you kidding me? Kara decides to be with a guy she met five hours earlier? WTF?!

-Make up your damn minds about Hawkman.

-Terry McGinnis is Bruce Wayne's son! Through a series of coincidental coincidences, Terry McGinnis the genetic son of Bruce Wayne actually became Batman simply due to a series of coincidental coincidences! Complaints from years earlier of this new Batman being Bruce Wayne's son are finally realized. After 52 episodes of trying to convince us we should like Terry for being Terry . . . oh he's Bruce's son.

-Hawk and Dove episode. Thank you liberal anti-war writers. Yes, the best way for the Justice League to win is through NON-VIOLENCE! Oh wait . . .

-Braniac being behind Cadmus. Most of the Cadmus stuff I found very annoying and politically apparent for the most part.

-Super-intelligent talking Doomsday.

-I didn't like the UNLIMITED cast. I love Booster Gold but we only got one actual Booster Gold episode. I hated this. I want a core cast with some recurring or one-off guest stars. I don't like how you can just throw all these characters in there and have them do nothing even though they are all officially on the team.

-Time travel season finale with Kronos - freaking awful, especially with the way they just killed Terry.

I do count those shows, I just don't count them to excuse absences or missed opportunities. "No, there's no reason to have Scarlet Witch on the Avengers; she was JUST on their cartoon a mere 10 years ago!" My reply would be like, "yeah, but I'd like to seem them do it, and it, y'know, it NOT SUCKING" and you fail to realize that. No idea done before is worth doing again, even if it is to do it RIGHT, I guess; I respectfully disagree.

I don't see anyone making these excuses. You are making things up. I've only said before that there is a precedent for Wanda/Scarlett Witch being a hero in animation before in the Avengers cartoon in Iron Man in the 90's, and in the X-men 90's series in her appearance she wasn't exactly a Brotherhood member or out and out villain.

In Wolverine and the X-men, she's a member of Magneto's Brotherhood and clearly Magneto's daughter. She believes in Genosha and mutants having a utopia. But she eventually does the right thing and trusts the man she loves and casts out her own father because he went too far. Ultimately in the series Wanda makes the "morally" right choices mainly due to the influence Nightcrawler had on her.

Major difference; Peter Parker's story began in the 60's with him in high school. You could argue SS-M returned him to his roots there on TV.

Considering Peter was still in high school when that show was made. Yeah returning to an idea set up OVER FORTY YEARS EARLIER! Its still something different than what the other shows were doing before which was a fully adult or young adult Peter.

Iron Man didn't. And it is a shame that Kid's WB's "teenagers starring in every show we have by royal decree" motto has been so easily forgotten, but making Iron Man a teenager is about as stock a network demand there is, besides talking animals. Granted, I haven't watched the show, and the premire scored better ratings than even WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, so whatever they're doing was successful.

There's a precedent for a teenage Iron Man in the comics. I'm not a huge fan of the stories but they are there. The way I see it, in Avengers we are getting a fully adult, non-teenaged Tony Stark Iron Man as the founder of the Avengers so I don't see much good in complaining about Iron Man adventures right now.

Also, just remember that Iron Man was all Marvel, NickToons didn't come into the equation until last year.

Now I've watched the new show and while I don't really like it a lot, I see a lot of upsides and benefits the show can have in building an audience and its own storyline to get more young people into Marvel characters. That's a noble and positive goal for such a series. I think the superhero squad series will be much the same way.

AVENGERS: EMH, though, requires having that energy in every episode. Can Yost and company rise to that challenge? That's the million dollar question. It's possible. Yost knows history and if he has a good board artist can pace a fight. I think he CAN pull it off. The question is, will he?

Umm where does it say that Yost is the ONLY staff writer and is going to be carrying the entire workload all by himself? You single Yost out but I doubt he is the only driving creative source of the series.

And yes he will. I feel this show will find a good middle ground without having to go as far as Ultimate Avengers. Next Avengers was a pretty perfect classic interpretation of Ultron. That's the Ultron I hope we see in the new Avengers show. Ruthless, cold, and relentless.

He seems more experienced with the X-Men, though. Thor was nothing but a punching bag with an electric shooting hammer in HULK VS. THOR and hopefully his power level would be more akin to a Superman of the Avengers here; he, Hulk, and Iron Man would be the real "heavy hitters".

Thor was facing an off the rails and magically empowered Hulk. And his personality was pretty classically Thor rather than the mishmash that was in Ultimate Avengers.

Dread

04-30-2009, 09:07 PM

-Pointless romances to nowhereville! No resolution to the Shayera/Vixen/John triangle. It went nowhere. Lame. Wonder Woman/Batman. Green Arrow/Black Canary. The only relationships that got the most closure were freaking Huntress and Question and . . . BRANIAC 5 and Kara. Are you kidding me? Kara decides to be with a guy she met five hours earlier? WTF?!

-Make up your damn minds about Hawkman.

-Terry McGinnis is Bruce Wayne's son! Through a series of coincidental coincidences, Terry McGinnis the genetic son of Bruce Wayne actually became Batman simply due to a series of coincidental coincidences! Complaints from years earlier of this new Batman being Bruce Wayne's son are finally realized. After 52 episodes of trying to convince us we should like Terry for being Terry . . . oh he's Bruce's son.

-Hawk and Dove episode. Thank you liberal anti-war writers. Yes, the best way for the Justice League to win is through NON-VIOLENCE! Oh wait . . .

-Braniac being behind Cadmus. Most of the Cadmus stuff I found very annoying and politically apparent for the most part.

-Super-intelligent talking Doomsday.

-I didn't like the UNLIMITED cast. I love Booster Gold but we only got one actual Booster Gold episode. I hated this. I want a core cast with some recurring or one-off guest stars. I don't like how you can just throw all these characters in there and have them do nothing even though they are all officially on the team.

-Time travel season finale with Kronos - freaking awful, especially with the way they just killed Terry.

This will get too long and off topic if I respond to all of this individually, but I never intended to, I just wanted to know your opinion. And to be honest there are a bit of these criticisms that I agree with. Hawkman's continuity in the DCU has been a mess for years, and while Geoff Jones managed to make it work there, instead they chose to make Hawkman rather complicated in JLU, too. It wasn't terrible but quite convoluted, with him coming off as a stalker who happened to be some Egyptian reincarnated guy. The "HAWK AND DOVE" episode was one of the "MEH at best" episodes of JLU, not too far away from Paul Dini's "THE LITTLE PIGGY" (which was better only because it was not meant to be taken seriously). Beyond the gimmick of reuniting Fred Savage and Jason Havery from "THE WONDER YEARS" as Hawk & Dove, the episode didn't have much going for it beyond the Annihilator armor itself, which was used for better effect in "TASK FORCE X" and "THE BALANCE" (when it was possessed by Felix Faust).

I also agree that the tacked on "retcon" of making Terry McGinnis the biological son of Bruce Wayne, albeit via Camdus cloning and manipulations, was a bit much, and not something I was a fan of. "EPILOGUE" was a strong episode overall, but I never cared for that revelation. When BATMAN BEYOND was on, there were a lot of people who disliked Terry or didn't believe he was "worthy" of becoming the new Batman because he wasn't related to Wayne, Grayson, or even Drake via blood or something. To me, that criticism of BEYOND missed the point entirely. Wayne himself became Batman after a tragedy of fate, a lot of soul searching and yes, even needing mentors in his youth (such as Alfred Pennyworth, Leslie Thompkins, Yoru-Sensei and even Zatara the Magician, according to "The Timmverse" of cartoons). Terry had essentially become Batman the same way, boiled down (only he had a retired Wayne himself as a mentor, who he relied on less by the last season of BEYOND). There was no need to "answer" some fan criticisms about 5 years too late.

I even agree that some of the relationship tension was never satisfied completely. While we learned that Warhawk of the BEYOND reality was the son of John Stewart and Shayera, the series ends with John not wanting to be the pawn of destiny and "choosing" Vixen. While we know the two likely reunite later on, it was easy to feel a little cheated. While I understand that Batman is the perennial bachelor (and according to BATMAN BEYOND, was likely saving himself for Talia Al-Ghul), it was a bit silly for Batman to "fear" for Wonder Woman's safety considering she could probably defeat at least half of his rogues gallery, single handedly, in a single brawl. I agree that it would have been interesting to have the two go all the way a bit, beyond just a kiss and a lot of flirting. Not everyone "shipped" for this couple, though. I thought Green Arrow and Black Canary were clearly a double by "DOUBLE DATE" (the title itself was rather obvious about that). Ollie had won Dinah's respect in "THE CAT AND THE CANARY".

(Besides, if you want a "nowheresville" relationship, WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN had a few. Logan has not one, but two failed romances with Mariko and Mystique that exist only to provide flashbacks. The biggest relationship "triangle" is between Cyclops/Emma/Jean, with Jean being off camera or possessed (or having amnesia) for most of that time. The ending was tragic but not terribly satisfying. Not once did Cyclops even seem to consider Frost's feelings, and it is hard to root for Jean as a Maguffin Princess. X-MEN EVOLUTION made a better show of Cyclops/Rogue/Jean.)

I liked the fact that Doomsday could talk, since he usually had been a boring, stock monster in the comics; allowing him to talk allowed him to appear more cunning and even malicious and sadistical. Albeit he clearly is supposed to be an alien in "A BETTER WORLD" and then they retcon that in "THE DOOMSDAY SANCTION", but, HUSH. While the two part finale to JLU Season 1 with Chronos was a bit awkward (and the Western episode, while fun, was really kind of filler), I did like it overall. Terry didn't "really" die, even if he was a bit useless in that fight at the end. But, c'mon, you had three Batmen in the room! I guess "THE ONCE AND FUTURE THING" was similar to some of the 2 part episodes of JUSTICE LEAGUE; the first 25-35 minutes or so a little hum-drum, and then the last 15 kick ass. For me, it is better to have a good ending than merely a good beginning. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN had some decent build-up but a bit of a rushed and shallow pay off so far.

As for the cast, the nature of the 60+ hero roster was something akin to HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE, where many never were intended to exist beyond appearing in background animation, and one or two of those middling characters got an episode here and there. There were secondary leaguers that rose to the fore, like Supergirl, Green Arrow, Huntress, Question, Black Canary, Captain Atom, Atom, and even Steel to a small degree. To be fair, considering how many characters in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN either existed just for a power (Storm and Iceman come to mind, as well half of the Future X-Men of 2020), and how many were just vague ciphers (Shadowcat, Forge, to a degree Beast by the end of the show), it is curious that you feel this way. Granted, some could argue whether JLU repeating the "overloaded cast" idea of HE-MAN or shows from the 80's some twenty years later was a good idea. It took them a while to get used to that cast, and it was awkward at times. I was once so irritated that Flash sat out a season that I made this "Missing" pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/TrenchcoatMask/LostFlash.jpg
Flash would step up later, though, in a big, big way. You've tried to convince me that Colossus will in W&TXM. He absolutely won't, because I doubt Kyle & Johnson give two ****'s about him, but it's a nice gesture to hope about.

While I thought the Camdus arc with the finale against "Lexiac" was epic, I do concede that it was a little awkward that the major crux of Camdus, the "U.S. trying to curtail demigod superheroes" angle was completely dropped, and resolved in a bit of a weak way in "PATRIOT ACT" (Gen. Eiling essentially becomes the Hulk, pummels seven human heroes, has to be told by a friggin' kid and old lady he has become his enemy, and escapes). But overall that arc was good.

In the end, to me JLU was a great show that had flaws, kind of like FULL METAL ALCHEMIST. That is not the same as a pedestrian show that has moments. Of which I hope AVENGERS: EMH won't be.

I don't see anyone making these excuses. You are making things up. I've only said before that there is a precedent for Wanda/Scarlett Witch being a hero in animation before in the Avengers cartoon in Iron Man in the 90's, and in the X-men 90's series in her appearance she wasn't exactly a Brotherhood member or out and out villain.

In Wolverine and the X-men, she's a member of Magneto's Brotherhood and clearly Magneto's daughter. She believes in Genosha and mutants having a utopia. But she eventually does the right thing and trusts the man she loves and casts out her own father because he went too far. Ultimately in the series Wanda makes the "morally" right choices mainly due to the influence Nightcrawler had on her.

What likely helps fuel my irritation is that Marvel Comics, which, I know, isn't the same as their animation arm, have treated the Maximoff twins as terrorists for five years and acted like it was always their ideal state; seeing two generations of cartoons do that at the same time was annoying. And yes, I know about Mighty Avengers.

That said, though, while I was not a fan of yet another cartoon with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver on the Brotherhood as if by mandate, Wanda was one of the few characters besides Wolverine in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN who was fleshed decently. Kate Higgins voiced her well, she had a good design and a decent place in the show. Out of Magneto's three children, she was the practical, level headed one whose morals started to conflict with what Magneto was doing. Her relationship with Nightcrawler...well, it was budding. With this show coming out in 2012, it would be cute of they ever used Scarlet Witch, they used the version from W&TXM, which by then would be on a third season (probably fighting Evil Cyclops in the year 3999 with Cable or something) to carry it over. To build a Kyle/Johnson/Yost-verse, if you will. It could be fun. Despite my whining I am actually not the biggest fan of Wanda, but W&TXM did make her interesting. It might be cool if A:EMH nudged at existing in the same "universe". I mean, hey, at Comic Con Kyle & Yost wanted to do an X-MEN VS. AVENGERS movie; why not start that rumbling by having loose ties between these TV shows, and then really amping up that DTV, making it worth something, like an OAV. Watch the sales for it soar! :word:

Considering Peter was still in high school when that show was made. Yeah returning to an idea set up OVER FORTY YEARS EARLIER! Its still something different than what the other shows were doing before which was a fully adult or young adult Peter.

True, and it took modern updates from the movies, Ultimate Spider-Man and the show's writers to really make it work.

There's a precedent for a teenage Iron Man in the comics. I'm not a huge fan of the stories but they are there. The way I see it, in Avengers we are getting a fully adult, non-teenaged Tony Stark Iron Man as the founder of the Avengers so I don't see much good in complaining about Iron Man adventures right now.

Also, just remember that Iron Man was all Marvel, NickToons didn't come into the equation until last year.

Now I've watched the new show and while I don't really like it a lot, I see a lot of upsides and benefits the show can have in building an audience and its own storyline to get more young people into Marvel characters. That's a noble and positive goal for such a series. I think the superhero squad series will be much the same way.

Arno Stark sucked. :o

The problem is that young people don't read mainstream comics. They read manga (or rather, download manga). Marvel and DC have done everything but sell virgin souls to get people who were too young to drink to read comics, and they've failed by and large. IRON MAN ADVENTURES or MARVEL SUPERHERO SQUAD may do great ratings, but while that puts cash in Marvel's coffers, it doesn't help the comics line at all.

I'd honestly be more enthused to watch IRON MAN ADVENTURES if not for the teeny bopper angle (or the generic looking CGI animation).

Umm where does it say that Yost is the ONLY staff writer and is going to be carrying the entire workload all by himself? You single Yost out but I doubt he is the only driving creative source of the series.

And yes he will. I feel this show will find a good middle ground without having to go as far as Ultimate Avengers. Next Avengers was a pretty perfect classic interpretation of Ultron. That's the Ultron I hope we see in the new Avengers show. Ruthless, cold, and relentless.

Yost I believe will be a story editor or producer on this show, which means that even the episodes he doesn't actually write or co-write will have to match his vision for the show. His view on what this show has to be will influence the entire series bible and grind of episodes. Honestly I am curious how he will handle a major project like this without Craig Kyle along for the ride for most of it. I am pulling for him; he wrote a few episodes of the 2k3 TMNT, after all (back when it was good).

I totally agree about Ultron. He was the highlight of NEXT AVENGERS. I stick to my assertion that he was so cool that he deserved a better movie with better adversaries. If we get that Ultron in this series (and they can even have Tom Kane reprise the role if they wish), that'd be epic.

Thor was facing an off the rails and magically empowered Hulk. And his personality was pretty classically Thor rather than the mishmash that was in Ultimate Avengers.

Yeah, I did get that it was essentially "classic Thor" and that portrayal alongside the tour through Asgard was pretty much why I enjoyed HULK VS. THOR despite the fact that the fight wasn't even a challenge. Plus, Loki and Enchantress were rather smashing, too.

That brings me to another point; hopefully Hulk won't be too unbeatable or invincible here. If he is seriously going to be part of the team for a whole season or so, then they can't rely on him to pummel every threat. Strength should only get you so far in Avengers without other powers or teamwork to prevail.

TheVileOne

04-30-2009, 10:07 PM

Dread

05-01-2009, 01:45 AM

I don't want to go point by point. But Wolverine and The X-men didn't have nowhere's-ville with the pairings. Wolverine/Mariko left it saying, "we can't be together." That was closure. They put a pin in it. Wolverine and Mariko split up and didn't get married and then Wolverine ultimately had to kill her. We didn't see the killing part but it could still happen.

Nightcrawler and Wanda is sort of a burgeoning relationship that will hopefully develop later on.

There was an emotional climax and ending of sorts to Emma/Jean/Cyclops. It wasn't a pure nowheres-ville triangle like the end of Justice League. Emma sacrificed herself to save Cyclops and everyone as atonement. She might come back, but for that season that was not a nowheres-ville plot.

That is assuming Silver Samurai and Mariko don't return in Season 2. Otherwise that thread could be picked up.

My problem with the Frost/Cyclops/Jean thing is that it was essentially one sided. Frost loved Cyclops and Cyclops only saw her as an avenue for Jean. Jean herself was essentially a walking Maguffin and that was the major drawback for her. It was hard to appreciate her as a character. Without spoiling stuff here, I believe W&TXM's season finale chose to try to have a notable character sacrifice for the sake of the immediate finale, but resulted in a more boring and typical relationship for Season 2. To be fair, whenever a debut season is written, there is no assurance that it will be renewed, so there is an urgency to get all your ducks in a row and whatnot. But what that "triangle" had was one party who spent 26 episodes missing, with amnesia or being possessed, the male party obsessed with the former to the point of abandoning all duty, friends, or honor, and the second female point lusting for the male, and not being noticed. In this regard, Season 2 looks to be VERY boring. There's nothing more to do. JLU had some relationships that went nowhere, but is it better to have them come to an unsatisfying or boring conclusion?

Wanda and Kurt was done well, though, and hopefully that will go somewhere in Season 2.

I didn't say comics. I said MARVEL CHARACTERS. Yes kids don't really read Marvel comics . . . they read Shonen Jump manga. And again I'm not talking about comics.

However building fans of the other media, the cartoons and what not is the best way to get them as fans and in anticipation of the movies later on as they get older. Kids want to see movies that are like their cartoon characters.

That's why I've been so annoyed by Brand New Day. Because it doesn't really make Spider-man more kid friendly at the end of the day.

Yeah, BND ignores the fact that MJ has been a major part of Peter's life for three major films (and likely a 4th), at least one cartoon for 5 seasons that has run in reruns endlessly on cable, and she even played a decent role in the latest one. BND basically confuses new fans and alienates a lot of the older ones (or at least ones who are in their 20's or 30's). Sales have tanked. It's clearly not working.

To get things back on AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES a bit, it's slated for release apparently by 2011-2012, and the other talent named for it besides Yost, just so I remember, is Ciro Nieli, whose past credits include "Robot Chicken" and "Teen Titans" is serving as producer, with Chris Yost as story editor (according to our very own SUPER HERO HYPE). Apparently Nieli was tapped to do a new HULK cartoon, but Marvel has decided to hedge those bets and produce an Avengers cartoon instead; which seems pragmatic. Hulk has underperformed in recent years, media-wise. That still means that some of the pre-production work for Hulk's series may merge with A:EMH and I recall some interview somewhere claiming they may be adapting some of the story points.

To repeat my concern, if the Hulk is to truly be a member of the team long term, then I can see how that can work. While it goes counter to what Hulk usually does in guest episodes or his own shows or movies, I do tire of that status quo and wouldn't mind seeing something new done with him. The dilemma is to not turn him into Wolverine. That is, to not have him completely hog the show. Or Iron Man for that matter. A team show has to be that; a team show. Where every character gets ample focus and times to shine, and yes even a few can rise to the fore, but if one or two become the clear bread-winners, it does get old. One criticism I had of JL and JLU is that at times it was VERY clear that Batman was "cooler" than all the other heroes, to the point where they rarely displayed basic common sense in a fight beyond "smash, repeat" unless Batman The Tactician was there. Batman could at times "pwn" characters that would faze even Superman, or not even Superman could be made to seem an equal in judgment. AVENGERS will have to avoid wearing Hulk and/or Iron Man too much on their sleeves. That isn't to say that Hulk and Iron Man should be background fodder, and they can't have their own themed storylines or villains. On the contrary, their rogues gallery can serve the Avengers quite well. Absorbing Man is a nemesis of both Thor and Hulk, after all. Many of Iron Man's enemies have taken on the Avengers as well, including the Mandarin; heck, in the 90's IRON MAN TV series, "Force Works" used to spend a lot of time fighting Stark's enemies. I certainly wouldn't mind a better go at The Leader or Abomination than the 1996 era HULK cartoon delivered.

But what would be annoying would be if those two completely dominated the show. That won't do. Naturally the best way to do it would be to make sure things are mixed up to everyone's favorite gets a moment in the sun. That would be something that even JL/U sometimes struggled with, especially within the first 26 episodes or so.

I am very curious about who they are casting to play Captain America; I can imagine that is hardly the easiest role to cast. Cap may not be the "de facto leader" at the start, but that is alright. Iron Man funds the team, and technically founded the team before Cap in the comics anyway; if they make Steve have to "earn" that right, all the better. I do like the Kirby influence on his mask. It has been a very long time since we saw the Red Skull in animation, too, about 11 years so far.

Naturally, Thor's rogues gallery offers a bit for the Avengers, with Loki and all. Part of me imagines the Wrecking Crew would make for a nice team brawl, with them being four of them (or even five, if Yost wanted to throw in Piledriver's son from RUNAWAYS).

I still say it was in a way an unfortunately advantage that the last Avengers cartoon in 1999 was so bloody terrible; there are no unreasonably high expectations here, like there are every time an X-Men, Batman, or Spider-Man cartoon begins every few years. This may give it some freedom.

TheVileOne

05-01-2009, 01:59 AM

I have very high expectations for the show.

Dread

05-01-2009, 02:51 AM

I do, too. But by that, I meant, we aren't judging it on the terms of a prior show of the franchise. Like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, whether it is fair or not, is and has been judged against the 90's X-MEN series, or X-MEN EVOLUTION. Much as SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN was judged against the 90's SPIDER-MAN series (and for a few, perhaps the 80's Spider-Man stuff, like Amazing Friends). When buzz turned against FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES, people regular complained of preferring Season 2 of the 90's FF show. I am sure Season 2 of the 90's IRON MAN show will weigh in the minds of some as they watch the new IRON MAN ADVENTURES.

By that token, AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES really has little to no nostalgia to overcome or a shadow to escape from, least from their own franchise. 1999's AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND is universally accepted as terrible. Heck, if asked to list my Top 10 Worst Superhero Cartoons Ever, it would stand at a very close #2 (behind SUPERFRIENDS). No one is going to say, "Man, I wish they did it like they did in '99" because that show was abysmally bad. Frankly, Yost and Nieli could "phone it in" with the first season and likely produce something better than AVENTERS: UTS.

Not that I think they are, of course.

It will likely be judged against JUSTICE LEAGUE/JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED if anything, because that is DC's "mightiest hero" team and because for many it was the pinnacle of Western superhero animation. By 2011-2012, JLU would have been off the air for 5-6 years, and it would be cool if this show will be able to be stacked against it. But at the very least, it has no shadows to overcome of it's own. Hell, aside for Iron Man or Hulk, none of the characters in it have starred in an ongoing TV series since the 60's; MIGHTY THOR is coming down the pipeline but I am curious how far production is going.

I'm hard on animation sometimes, but that is because I believe in the potential of the medium, perhaps more than some network executives. I see it as something that should be moving forward, trying to improve on itself. While it is great that JLU is hailed to such a high pedestal, by myself included, I would certainly love to see something dethrone it. AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES can, if the writing, animation, acting, and storyboarding are as mighty as the title.

Unlike the Justice League, the Avengers have more stories that could be lifted straight from the comics and adapted, even if loosely. I am curious what the music will sound like; JUSTICE LEAGUE had more of a mighty orchastra sound, while JLU started out with a lot of snazzy electric guitar stuff (which took getting used to). Would some characters, like "The Big Three" even have their own little "themes"?

It will be fun to see how the past, present, and future of the characters are strip mined and condensed into the show. For instance, Brubaker's work on the Winter Soldier was not an option for a show until recently, but he suddenly popped up in the MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE video game as a boss. Would he show up for a Cap arc? How are they handling origin sequences? What designs for the villains will be used? The brief teaser animation showed a traditional Kang, which is a bit gusty; his design reeks of the Silver Age. Still, JLU was unafraid of that stuff.

It will be good to see an Avengers series not steeped into 21st century over militarization like the ULTIMATE AVENGERS stuff.

Dread

05-04-2009, 07:31 PM

Alright, for an attempt to breathe some life into this topic beyond me and TheVileOne debating, how about this:

AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEOROES CASTING CALL!

That's right, in WIZARD style, how about we either try to guess who may be voicing what character, and/or give our own preferences for voice actors we'd like in a particular role. Or even ones who may be likely, since Marvel Animation seems to be proving loyal to a circle of about a dozen or two actors who work on a variety of their projects, which IMO is pretty cool.

Here are some of mine, I'll start with a few "locks" IMO and then into some fan wish stuff.

HULK: I think Fred Tatasciore is a lock for this. The only Hulk animated appearance within the last five years that he didn't voice was the guest shot in FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES and that was because that was dubbed by Ocean Group, a Canadian troupe. He's played Hulk in the Lion's Gate DVD's (at least four by this count, soon to be five) as well as in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN. He's great in the role and Yost likely has experience with him. I would be very shocked to not see him get tapped to play the Hulk here.
I suppose this also means a casting suggestion for Bruce Banner. There is a part of me who thinks it might be fun to allow Fred to voice Banner, too. Let him play both angles of the character, especially since he can do other voices other than Hulk's; he plays Beast in W&TXM, after all. But if Nieli wants to cast another actor to play Banner, my pick would be Bryce Johnson, who played Banner in HULK VS. (as well as a convincing Dr. Strange in, um, DOCTOR STRANGE, and even Aquaman in the video game JUSTICE LEAGUE HEROES). I liked his Banner more than Michael Massee's from the ULTIMATE AVENGERS films. Sounded more sympathetic.

CAPTAIN AMERICA: Arguably one of the hardest roles of the team to cast, least in my opinion. Every time Cap comes up in a cartoon, everyone uses that quote from that Frank Miller DAREDEVIL issue, "a voice that could command a god, and does". While I respected Justin Gross' good performance as Captain America in ULTIMATE AVENGERS 1 & 2, I thought his voice for Cap didn't quite have that quality. One pick that I don't mind is a pick from the past; David Hayter, who played Captain America for his guest-appearances in X-MEN and SPIDER-MAN in 1996-1997. Video game fans of course would know him best as the voice of Solid Snake in the METAL GEAR SOLID games (or at least the games since the PS1). He's written for the X-MEN films and was pitching for a BLACK WIDOW movie, and for all we know, she could show up on this cartoon at some point (perhaps as the partner of Hawkeye, keeping with the comic origins for both?). Hayter did some dubs for MANGA VIDEO in the late 90's into 2000 or so, and has decent range (playing Lupin the Third in their dub of CASTLE OF COGLIOSTRO, which Manga just re-released about a year or two back). There is a part of me, though, that would love to hear Kirk Thorton audition for the part. Kirk's one of the most prolific male anime voice dubbers, landing more parts than even Steven J. Blum has. I'd love to hear his stab on Cap.

IRON MAN: The fanboy in me would love to hear Robert Hays reprise the role from the 90's series; he was always my favorite Iron Man/Tony Stark voice actor. Still, I could imagine them asking Marc Worden to reprise his role from the Ultimate Avengers DTV's as well as from the Invincible Iron Man DTV. He was perfectly fine in the role. John Cygan was alright in the role for MARVEL ULTIMATE ALLIANCE, but I'd prefer the other two.

HANK PYM/ANT-MAN/GIANT-MAN: Ah, everyone's confidence challenged uber genius. While he may be a bit busy playing Cyclops in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, if Nolan North was capable via time and whatnot, I'd be thrilled to have him reprise the role from the Ultimate Avengers films. Jerry Houser voiced him fine in MARVEL ULTIMATE ALLIANCE as an alternative.

THE WASP: Aside for recasting Grey DeLise from ULTIMATE AVENGERS 1 & 2, I really have no other suggestions.

THOR: I heard that David Boat from the ULTIMATE AVENGERS films was cast as Thor in MARVEL SUPERHERO ADVENTURES, the kiddle show on CN. I enjoyed his Thor although I wouldn't have minded seeing him get more serious, meatier material in the role than he's gotten. Matthew Wolf landed the role in HULK VS. and he did a solid job, I thought, and he would seem to be the odds on favorite to land the gig here. My "dark horse" candidate would be Michael Adamthwaite, who played Thor in NEXT AVENGERS (as well as Namor in FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH's that Yost was heavily involved in, and of course Colossus from X-MEN EVOLUTION).

JARVIS: Who better than Fred Tatasciore? He's already a lock for Hulk and played the handy butler well in the Ultimate Avengers films. Since he may not get a chance to play Banner, why not give him another shoe in recast?

OTHERS: Loki would seem to be inevitable for a show like this, and Graham McTavish owned that role in HULK VS. THOR. Ultron is another sure bet and Tom Kane was excellent as the robot menace in NEXT AVENGERS (and brings that pedigree from having been in Marvel's newer projects like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN as well as in the 90's IRON MAN series). Since he played the DC version for years, if Taskmaster showed up, I'd love if Ron Perlman were tapped for the part. Since some of Hulk's enemies will likely be showing up, I nominate Mark Acheson (Sabretooth from HULK VS. WOLVERINE) for a turn as Abomination. Mark Hamill would make a fun Leader, and probably could do a good "goon" voice for Absorbing Man (a la' his Solomon Grundy from JUSTICE LEAGUE). Besides, any animated project is classier with Mark Hamill in it.

TheVileOne

05-05-2009, 01:16 PM

Alright, for an attempt to breathe some life into this topic beyond me and TheVileOne debating, how about this:

HULK: I think Fred Tatasciore is a lock for this. The only Hulk animated appearance within the last five years that he didn't voice was the guest shot in FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES and that was because that was dubbed by Ocean Group, a Canadian troupe. He's played Hulk in the Lion's Gate DVD's (at least four by this count, soon to be five) as well as in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN. He's great in the role and Yost likely has experience with him. I would be very shocked to not see him get tapped to play the Hulk here.

I'd say Fred Tatasciore is a good bet since he's been playing Hulk in everything so far. He even did Hulk in that CG animated promotional short.

I suppose this also means a casting suggestion for Bruce Banner. There is a part of me who thinks it might be fun to allow Fred to voice Banner, too. Let him play both angles of the character, especially since he can do other voices other than Hulk's; he plays Beast in W&TXM, after all. But if Nieli wants to cast another actor to play Banner, my pick would be Bryce Johnson, who played Banner in HULK VS. (as well as a convincing Dr. Strange in, um, DOCTOR STRANGE, and even Aquaman in the video game JUSTICE LEAGUE HEROES). I liked his Banner more than Michael Massee's from the ULTIMATE AVENGERS films. Sounded more sympathetic.

Its interesting that Fred Tatasciore has always played Hulk but NEVER played Banner. Even though Tatasciore definitely has the range to play Banner.

CAPTAIN AMERICA: Arguably one of the hardest roles of the team to cast, least in my opinion. Every time Cap comes up in a cartoon, everyone uses that quote from that Frank Miller DAREDEVIL issue, "a voice that could command a god, and does". While I respected Justin Gross' good performance as Captain America in ULTIMATE AVENGERS 1 & 2, I thought his voice for Cap didn't quite have that quality. One pick that I don't mind is a pick from the past; David Hayter, who played Captain America for his guest-appearances in X-MEN and SPIDER-MAN in 1996-1997. Video game fans of course would know him best as the voice of Solid Snake in the METAL GEAR SOLID games (or at least the games since the PS1). He's written for the X-MEN films and was pitching for a BLACK WIDOW movie, and for all we know, she could show up on this cartoon at some point (perhaps as the partner of Hawkeye, keeping with the comic origins for both?). Hayter did some dubs for MANGA VIDEO in the late 90's into 2000 or so, and has decent range (playing Lupin the Third in their dub of CASTLE OF COGLIOSTRO, which Manga just re-released about a year or two back). There is a part of me, though, that would love to hear Kirk Thorton audition for the part. Kirk's one of the most prolific male anime voice dubbers, landing more parts than even Steven J. Blum has. I'd love to hear his stab on Cap.

This can't be the Ultimate Avengers Cap so they can't do the same thing. I say totally start fresh and get a totally new Cap same with Hulk vs. getting a new Thor in Matt Wolfe who did the best ever rendition of the character thus far in animation.

Hayter won't be doing it. Hayter's been vocal that he really only came back to do Snake because it was more as a favor to the fans. He's too busy now with his new production company and writing and potential directing jobs he has on the horizon. Hayter's proud of his voicework, but would only do something if there was something ultra-cool in mind they could work out or that's the impression he gave at his AX appearances last year.

IRON MAN: The fanboy in me would love to hear Robert Hays reprise the role from the 90's series; he was always my favorite Iron Man/Tony Stark voice actor. Still, I could imagine them asking Marc Worden to reprise his role from the Ultimate Avengers DTV's as well as from the Invincible Iron Man DTV. He was perfectly fine in the role. John Cygan was alright in the role for MARVEL ULTIMATE ALLIANCE, but I'd prefer the other two.

My personal favorite will always be Hays, but I think for consistency's sake they should stick with Worden. Worden does a good job of the character that's at least faithful to the 616 Tony. Tom Kane did a good older Tony. But this will be important because this will be a more leadership oriented Tony. In the Ultimate Avengers, Tony had this very light almost devil may care type of personality that I think was hiding a deeper inadequacy in teaming with Cap.

HANK PYM/ANT-MAN/GIANT-MAN: Ah, everyone's confidence challenged uber genius. While he may be a bit busy playing Cyclops in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, if Nolan North was capable via time and whatnot, I'd be thrilled to have him reprise the role from the Ultimate Avengers films. Jerry Houser voiced him fine in MARVEL ULTIMATE ALLIANCE as an alternative.

I think Nolan North is the best choice based on his heavy work on recent Marvel Animation. However, I think for this Hank we need to see more BRILLIANT SCIENTIST and sometimes flawed Hank instead of nervous breakdown angry scientist Hank. Hank should be guilty and regretful of his mistakes rather than the "I'm angry because my wife doesn't think I'm as great as a hero as Cap!! Grr!" I'm not saying it was a bad interpretation for Hank in Ultimate Avengers 2, but it just felt a little one note.

THOR: I heard that David Boat from the ULTIMATE AVENGERS films was cast as Thor in MARVEL SUPERHERO ADVENTURES, the kiddle show on CN. I enjoyed his Thor although I wouldn't have minded seeing him get more serious, meatier material in the role than he's gotten. Matthew Wolf landed the role in HULK VS. and he did a solid job, I thought, and he would seem to be the odds on favorite to land the gig here. My "dark horse" candidate would be Michael Adamthwaite, who played Thor in NEXT AVENGERS (as well as Namor in FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH's that Yost was heavily involved in, and of course Colossus from X-MEN EVOLUTION).

Wolfe would be my first choice. I was never that fond of Boat's Thor in Ultimate Avengers. Adamthwaite is a good performer, but I think Wolfe has done the best Thor ever, and he's already playing Thor again in Tales of Asgard.

Keep in mind, the Thor in Next Avengers was an older, wearier, King of Asgard Thor. This will not be the same Thor so it should be closer to his Hulk VS. rendition.

OTHERS: Loki would seem to be inevitable for a show like this, and Graham McTavish owned that role in HULK VS. THOR. Ultron is another sure bet and Tom Kane was excellent as the robot menace in NEXT AVENGERS (and brings that pedigree from having been in Marvel's newer projects like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN as well as in the 90's IRON MAN series). Since he played the DC version for years, if Taskmaster showed up, I'd love if Ron Perlman were tapped for the part. Since some of Hulk's enemies will likely be showing up, I nominate Mark Acheson (Sabretooth from HULK VS. WOLVERINE) for a turn as Abomination. Mark Hamill would make a fun Leader, and probably could do a good "goon" voice for Absorbing Man (a la' his Solomon Grundy from JUSTICE LEAGUE). Besides, any animated project is classier with Mark Hamill in it.[/QUOTE]

Hamill as Leader? You do realize that Hammill played Leader's stooge, Gargoyle in the Hulk series right? I'd actually look at Hammill for Taskmaster even if he's available.

Dread

05-05-2009, 08:01 PM

I'd say Fred Tatasciore is a good bet since he's been playing Hulk in everything so far. He even did Hulk in that CG animated promotional short.

Indeed. Blum may be "Wolverine for life" but I wonder if Fred may have the role of Hulk for an equal period by now. ;)

Its interesting that Fred Tatasciore has always played Hulk but NEVER played Banner. Even though Tatasciore definitely has the range to play Banner.

I believe so, too. I mean I wouldn't be disappointed if Banner was played by another actor; he almost always is in Hulk cartoons (or even Live action), but I wouldn't mind Fred having a shot at both, either.

This can't be the Ultimate Avengers Cap so they can't do the same thing. I say totally start fresh and get a totally new Cap same with Hulk vs. getting a new Thor in Matt Wolfe who did the best ever rendition of the character thus far in animation.

Hayter won't be doing it. Hayter's been vocal that he really only came back to do Snake because it was more as a favor to the fans. He's too busy now with his new production company and writing and potential directing jobs he has on the horizon. Hayter's proud of his voicework, but would only do something if there was something ultra-cool in mind they could work out or that's the impression he gave at his AX appearances last year.

That is a shame. But, yeah, it'd be fun to hear Kirk Thorton audition for it, even though I know he's likely outside the bubble.

My personal favorite will always be Hays, but I think for consistency's sake they should stick with Worden. Worden does a good job of the character that's at least faithful to the 616 Tony. Tom Kane did a good older Tony. But this will be important because this will be a more leadership oriented Tony. In the Ultimate Avengers, Tony had this very light almost devil may care type of personality that I think was hiding a deeper inadequacy in teaming with Cap.

Tom Kane was fine as Older Tony in NEXT AVENGERS for me, too, but I agree with you that here, he should sound younger, or at least in his prime. Worden can handle that.

I think Nolan North is the best choice based on his heavy work on recent Marvel Animation. However, I think for this Hank we need to see more BRILLIANT SCIENTIST and sometimes flawed Hank instead of nervous breakdown angry scientist Hank. Hank should be guilty and regretful of his mistakes rather than the "I'm angry because my wife doesn't think I'm as great as a hero as Cap!! Grr!" I'm not saying it was a bad interpretation for Hank in Ultimate Avengers 2, but it just felt a little one note.

It was one note, but it also wasn't as deep into psychosis as the actual Ultimate source material, which did irritate some fans. I think North could pull it off.

Wolfe would be my first choice. I was never that fond of Boat's Thor in Ultimate Avengers. Adamthwaite is a good performer, but I think Wolfe has done the best Thor ever, and he's already playing Thor again in Tales of Asgard.

Keep in mind, the Thor in Next Avengers was an older, wearier, King of Asgard Thor. This will not be the same Thor so it should be closer to his Hulk VS. rendition.

There is a part of me that thinks having King Thor come down to beat Ultron in NEXT AVENGERS would have worked better than "just because he is popular" Hulk, simply because he seemed out of left field and there for obligation. Plus, it would have made Thor seem like less of a cad in that film, but that's another topic.

Yeah, Wolfe's fine as Thor. I know they like to maintain similar actors for a lot of these parts so I wouldn't be surprised if he was tapped for this show in 2010-2011.

Hamill as Leader? You do realize that Hammill played Leader's stooge, Gargoyle in the Hulk series right? I'd actually look at Hammill for Taskmaster even if he's available.

Yes, I did realize that. He was arguably one of the highlights of that show in the 90's.

I suppose Hamill could carry Taskmaster, I would just rather he sound dangerous and gruff I guess. In the comics, his pragmatism is often misunderstood for cowardice (he usually prefers to flee from a fight rather than stay and risk arrest), plus I figured since Ron Perlman played Slade/Deathstroke in TEEN TITANS, it might be fun. Anyway, yeah, if Hamill played anyone here it could be solid.

JerseyJoker

06-25-2009, 06:18 PM

I wonder when we will hear some more information about this series. I'm looking forward to it, besides one day developing cartoon series' for some character they haven't given a solo chance to, Avengers is one series i hope they get right this time. The one during the late 90's/early 00 was meh at best.

Having the core character, knowing that this will be PURE hype to the movie, i hope they handle it well.

Dread

06-27-2009, 09:14 PM

The fact that AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND in 1999 was so atrociously bad works in this show's favor. The bar is very, very low. It isn't on par with the expectations of, say, the latest Spider-Man or X-Men cartoon that we get every 3-5 years. AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES could be just about average in quality; essentially, it could be about as good as WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, and that would be a marked improvement. For all intents and purposes it is the first "real" Avengers TV show, so there'll be a honeymoon grace period.

Still, I do hope it is good.

TheWatcher

07-03-2009, 09:17 PM

i can not WAIT for this cartoon
i want
-revolving member ship/wonderman,hawkeye,maximoffs,vision,warbird,she hulk,hercules,beast(wishful thinking),etc
-classic villians/kang,doom,magneto,wrecking crew,ultron,masters of evil/lethal legion,etc
-cool well flowing classic and new storys
-justice league style team-work
-ff,defenders,x-men,champion team ups
-have a nice mix of action,adventure,humor,etc,etc
what i do not want
-don't replace the big three
-no egghead please,he's awful
-no campy phrases,characters,etc
-no changing the characters
-donald blake for one season ONLY
this will rock
AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!!!! :grin::woot:

Dread

07-04-2009, 03:44 PM

There was a leaked "teaser trailer" for the series that popped up for barely a week or two on YouTube last year from AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES. It was likely unofficial because it hasn't resurfaced since. But it not only confirmed the line up as shown in the image linked to the last page of this thread, but confirmed at the very least Kang and Ultron showing up..

TheVileOne

07-06-2009, 06:44 PM

The video was actually on Marvel's Official website.

TheWatcher

07-06-2009, 09:35 PM

why would marvel put it on there site but then erase it from youtube?

Spider-Vader

07-07-2009, 07:32 PM

So this show is coming out next year? I hope it's on CN because I forget about 'Wolverine & the X-Men' because it's on Nicktoons which I don't have in my room (I have the channel, but it's never on when I'm alone in the family room).

I hope we get cross-overs with other famous Marvel teams.

WolfCypher

07-07-2009, 07:38 PM

Cartoon Network is always the 1st choice, but somehow these shows elude them.

Spectacular Spider-Man is on freakin' Disney and Wolverine is on Nick Toons for instance.

3dman27

07-08-2009, 05:07 AM

cartoon network is ownd by time warner owners of DC COMIC Sthey tried with ffwhg but it didn't work
the original ff series didnt have any problems since it was masde in the 1960s by hanna-barberra before cn was created

Dread

07-08-2009, 05:05 PM

I would say NickToons is the current front-runner. They are airing WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, IRON MAN ADVENTURES and will soon be airing the 2006 series FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES, likely airing episodes that were never broadcast in the U.S. (but were in the DVD box set of the series).

DISNEY XD has SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN and airs repeats of the 80's and 90's Marvel shows that Disney owns by proxy. They may order a third season of SS-M alongside Sony but NickToons seems to be more in the Marvel cartoon camp.

CARTOON NETWORK is slowly shifting away from cartoons. And despite being broadcast TV it seems CW 4KIDS is not much of a contender right now, likely because it only airs kids cartoons once a week, which is quickly becoming not worth it for animation. Of course, networks USED to air cartoons on weekday afternoons and even mornings on broadcast TV (and some stations even SUNDAY morning), but stopped for the era of cash-in's like endless court shows, infomercials, and reality TV/talk shows.

3dman27

07-09-2009, 05:05 AM

i would say nicktoons is the current front-runner. They are airing wolverine and the x-men, iron man adventures and will soon be airing the 2006 series fantastic four: World's greatest heroes, likely airing episodes that were never broadcast in the u.s. (but were in the dvd box set of the series).

Disney xd has spectacular spider-man and airs repeats of the 80's and 90's marvel shows that disney owns by proxy. They may order a third season of ss-m alongside sony but nicktoons seems to be more in the marvel cartoon camp.

Cartoon network is slowly shifting away from cartoons. And despite being broadcast tv it seems cw 4kids is not much of a contender right now, likely because it only airs kids cartoons once a week, which is quickly becoming not worth it for animation. Of course, networks used to air cartoons on weekday afternoons and even mornings on broadcast tv (and some stations even sunday morning), but stopped for the era of cash-in's like endless court shows, infomercials, and reality tv/talk shows.

yeah

TheVileOne

07-09-2009, 07:33 PM

dudamundo

07-12-2009, 01:20 PM

I would like to see MODOK as one of the main villains. They could easily animate him. In a creepy way.

Dread

07-18-2009, 03:43 PM

NickToons getting it is a good bet as Dread has pointed out.

My problem with Nicktoons is that I think their broadcast schedule for Wolverine and the X-men is faulty. I think they've only shown up to episode 13 now. I mean its a hit show, they've got 26 episodes in the can, why do they feel they have to hold it up so much? Do they just want to spread it out?

Disney doesn't deserve any Marvel shows considering how terrible their DVD releases are. Their X-men 90's DVD's are the worst, absolutely horrible.

To be honest, that has been a problem for non-network stations with animation for years now. Cartoon Network would sit on episodes of JUSTICE LEAGUE and JLU for so long that even the most honest viewer was tempted to just DL them from Europe or Canada after some 6-8 months delay. From there it seems every cable network, NICKTOONS and DISNEY XD shares that tactic of taking so bloody long to air their episodes on a reasonable basis and rate than anyone with half a brain, and let me remind you that children LIVE on the internet and know DAMN WELL how to download stuff, will just view it elsewhere and then wonder why their ratings are average.

It has been a running joke that network TV programmers and schedulers are probably monkeys throwing darts anyway for years.

Sawyer

07-18-2009, 07:54 PM

TheVileOne

07-19-2009, 12:17 AM

The video transfers on the DVD's are horrible. There's ghosting and interlacing issues showing that they put absolutely no effort into them at all.

No remastering.

3dman27

07-19-2009, 05:16 AM

:whatever:
Aside from the lack of special features and the length of time it took them to get off their collective asses and start making them, theres not much wrong with the dvds. Volume 3 and 4 kinda piss me off, though. Disney needs to put those in production order before I decide to defend them on those.

putting all the episode of a miniseries ,for example the pheonix saga for on the same disc is one thing i myself could accept episode out of order for that reason but not for others

Dread

07-21-2009, 05:01 PM

The video transfers on the DVD's are horrible. There's ghosting and interlacing issues showing that they put absolutely no effort into them at all.

No remastering.

That's been why I have been hesitant to buy the official releases of the 90's X-MEN series. On the one hand, I would like to support them as it took way too long to release them. On the other hand, I do already own them via bootleg, and if there is no remastering of any kind, then all I am paying for it basically clean end credits, box cover art which is pretty but not always accurate to the episodes inside (Nightcrawler is slapped on covers to box sets he isn't in), and maybe fewer discs (my bootlegs covered the series, and the PRYDE OF THE X-MEN pilot as a bonus, in about 8 discs). If I am going to double dip I may want to get a little more than that. It is a shame that Buena Vista isn't treating the show as they should; they've done the bare minimum, but if that is the best we can expect from business, then our economy really is finished.

TheVileOne

07-27-2009, 08:36 PM

Dread, by buying these you are supporting Disney giving us a **** product. We deserve better.

There are no extras. No clean credits.

Also, Lionsgate gives much greater respect to Marvel animation on DVD.

Also, I doubt Sony is going to go to mediocre lengths when they release the anime projects.

Dread

07-31-2009, 01:19 AM

No extras I knew about. It's bad enough after 11 years there are no extras, but whatever. But not even clean credits? That's lazy. Not having clean credits I can understand for a bootleg, they're leeching off Jetix or something.

I haven't heard the video quality was very good. If it's no better than bootleg I won't double dip. It is a real shame. Why do companies always screw this stuff up? It's like those TICK DVD sets that cut out entire episodes. If you not going to do it right, you're not going to dethrone the bootleggers. They simply fill a gap in the market.

Anyway, reposting some of TheVileOne's interview with Chris Yost that he posted on Toonzone that pertains to this show:

http://blog.toonzone.net/blogs/44/san-diego-comic-con-2009--marvel-animation---steve-blum-and-chris-yost-interview-session/

TZ: Chris, I know you can't get into it much, but are you working on the new Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes series?

CY: Yes.

TZ: Are you confident you can undo all the damage and bad memories done from the 1990's Avengers: United They Stand series?

CY: From minute 1, I will say yes. I love the show with all my heart, and I am fully confident that the tainting of the 90's series will be fully erased.

Sounds good. Then again, watching paint dry is better than AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND. But Yost usually knows his lore, so even with such a low bar to exceed, I'm not expecting it to be bad. In some ways there is less pressure than for an X-Men show.

Yost was being too kind about "minute one". There was a brief teaser animation for AVENGERS:EMH that was on YouTube for about two weeks. It was under a minute long. IT was better than A:UTS from '99. :p

3dman27

07-31-2009, 05:14 AM

by clean credits i take it you mean credits without inhouse netork ads?

Dread

08-01-2009, 04:33 PM

The end credits to bootlegs usually show the teaser for whatever the next show on Family or Jetix was going to be on the day of recording. Ideally an official release would not have those.

An official release should also not have edits for syndication, often a few seconds cropped from some episodes for time.

From what I am hearing about the official 90's X-MEN releases, they are the bare bones; just the episodes crammed into as few discs as possible. If even the video quality is not better than a bootleg, then I see little point in buying it if one has already cracked within the last decade and bought a bootleg. EVERY con has them. Hell, some comic shops in Manhattan have entire shelves of them.

TheVileOne

08-02-2009, 12:17 AM

I'm definitely excited. What sucks though? We are waiting about 2-3 years for it! I mean I was talking to the voice actors at Con. Feels like we have a long wait ahead of us like Wolverine and The X-men. I mean, I'm a patient guy, but you know its daunting because we are talking about it now and we won't be seeing the actual show for quite some time.

I was also sort of surprised at Con they announced 2011 for Thor: Tales of Asgard. I mean I get it because of the live action Thor movie, but wow, quite a wait since we were talking about Tales of Asgard a year ago. I mean, from the trailer alone, it looks like the movie is almost finished.

Dread

08-03-2009, 05:36 PM

It looks like they hastily decided to release a DTV of PLANET HULK before the THOR: TALES OF ASGARD disc, perhaps when the writer's strike caused the THOR movie to be delayed a bit.

Animation takes a while, especially if it is going to be decent, to come back from overseas. It's one of the sad truths of the industry. They also likely want "synergy" with the Avengers film with the cartoon, which is usually why superhero cartoons come out. Even the original BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES only came out from WB's standpoint to capitalize on BATMAN RETURNS in the early 90's.

TheVileOne

08-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Yeah but Planet Hulk comes out in like 6-7 months, and Tales of Asgard won't be out for about another year and a half at least. And haven't we heard about Planet Hulk for a while? I think Frank Paur and everyone started work on Planet Hulk when they finished Hulk vs. or started working on both around the same time.

Its just, urgh, I WANT IT NOW :D . Like I wish I didn't know as much as I do about them now so I'd be "waiting" a shorter time :D .

TheVileOne

08-03-2009, 06:50 PM

edit, dp.

Dread

08-07-2009, 06:13 PM

I understand. Especially as it seems DC/WB wants to exploit Marvel/Lion's Gate's delay with DTV's this year after HULK VS. with two of their own this summer/fall.

Chewy

11-03-2009, 11:55 AM

According to Marvel's third quarter profit report linked to on the main page, there are 52 episodes in development, which likely means they have big things planned for the show as they are developing more than just one season.

TheVileOne

11-04-2009, 12:10 AM

Man I really hope that pans out.

I just don't want to wait until like 2012.

Avengers should be like Marvel's JL or prestige animated series. Avengers: EMH will > Clone Wars.

Dread

12-01-2009, 09:03 PM

I imagine 2012 is a good year because Marvel wants the live action AVENGERS film out then, and they'll want "synergy" with the small screen. Much as WB managed to have a Batman cartoon on TV for their last two Batman films. Heck, the Bruce Timm BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES only came about after the success of "BATMAN RETURNS". It is annoying to wait that long, but that's the reality.

If the extra time gives the writing/production crew more time to make it excellent, then that should be good. At least with a 52 episode initial order, Marvel will give Yost & Co. enough time to do some large storylines without fear of being canceled in the middle. I mean, even for a show like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, 52 episodes is two seasons.

It will be interesting seeing a series that is more Chris Yost's baby than Craig Kyle's. At least from initial reports, and because Marvel wants to shift Kyle into the movie business soon. I've read a few comics that Yost wrote solo and he's certainly got the chops.

TheVileOne

12-14-2009, 02:10 PM

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid16671792001?bctid=1849017750

The yanked trailer/promo vid from last year is BACK ONLINE. Apparently its been back up for 3 months too.

So looks like Pym will be both Giant Man and Antman in the series.

So, can anyone tell, is that Marc Worden doing Iron Man in the video?

bored

12-14-2009, 07:25 PM

Sweet! I missed it when it first got leaked, so this good to see. It has Kang!

Dread

12-15-2009, 01:13 AM

It sounds like Worden, but with the mechanical sound effects, it could have been anyone doing that voice. It wouldn't surprise me if this trailer is test animation, since the show itself isn't due until 2011-2012.

I have some extra news bits from the Toonzone board that may as well be reposted here:

- According to Newsarama's Blog, Brian Reed (SECRET WARRIORS, MS. MARVEL, THE ILLUMINATI, CAPTAIN MARVEL) will be writing an episode of this show. He also wrote the story for the video game SPIDER-MAN: WEB OF SHADOWS.

- Via Chris Yost's blog, Yost states that the pilot episode has "the birth of the team", and that means the Avengers are not "pre-existing".

To be honest, I don't envy the task of trying to introduce 7 characters within one pilot episode. I'm sure it will be 2-3 parts like nearly every team cartoon pilot episode since X-MEN, but still. Of course, I imagine that the producers likely feel the audience is at least "vaguely" familiar with who Iron Man and Hulk are.

Hopefully we will see more production images and information in 2010. 52 episodes have been ordered initially, so Marvel has some faith that this will do well. Granted, it may mean that their deal with Disney means they know 100% that DISNEY XD will air the series and order a certain amount of episodes. In prior years, or at least since X-MEN EVOLUTION ended in 2003, Marvel has usually scrambled to find channels/networks to air their shows. SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN's channel destination was unknown for ages. And one gets the feeling Marvel never saw much faith in CARTOON NETWORK even before FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH was treated rather poorly. They also likely never liked dealing with Kid's WB. The Disney deal, at the very least, sets up a clear network for Marvel animation that Marvel hasn't had since they were FoxKids' best friend in the 90's.

Unlike with SPIDER-MAN and X-MEN cartoons, though, the wind is really at Yost's back here. There has never been an AVENGERS TV show anywhere that was any good. There is literally no shadow to escape from or some prior show to live up to; this show will be the trail-blazer. Yes, there were other team shows (nearly any team show will be compared to JLU, especially if the action isn't perfect within the first 22 minutes), but the Avengers have only had the CAPTAIN AMERICA 1966 segments, and the 1999 abomination.

There is a part of me that wishes that at the very least we had another heroine there, instead of having Wasp as the token girl. It is how the Avengers started out, but most team shows these days usually have at least 2-3 girls out of a cast of about 7-8 characters. Bruce Timm & Co. were willing to buck history to stick Hawkgirl in JUSTICE LEAGUE to have that effect. I still get this awful feeling that the Hulk is there for two reasons; recognition and to reuse design/production material from his own aborted cartoon. Of course, to be technical, the Hulk was in the first 2 issues of AVENGERS (not including Joe Casey's "year one" style mini) and popped up a few times before they thawed out Capt. America. It is shrewd strategy to want to have as many recognizable characters as they can to start off. Still, the Hulk usually doesn't do well on teams, and a season finale in which he turns on the Avengers would be the most predictable plot thread in history, and one I'd rather not see again.

The trailer at least shows that sense of Avengers history with Kang and Pym & Jan working on a prototype that is clearly Ultron. The challenge will be to be faithful to some of those old stories without making the show seem cheesy or retro. Yost & Co. will have to know where to update or modernize to be effective.

Chris Yost usually knows his stuff, so I'm fairly certain it'll be pretty good. Although, again, the lack of ANY positive Avengers TV experience that wasn't partially based on Ultimates works in the show's favor.

TheVileOne

12-15-2009, 01:19 AM

I'm fine with this format because I want to see how the Avengers come together.

Since we've never gotten a PROPER Avengers animated series, this means they can start from scratch and begin anew.

Even Justice League the pilot was about the team coming together.

Dread

12-15-2009, 02:56 AM

Indeed. However, one advantage that JUSTICE LEAGUE had was that it was tied to prior cartoon continuity. Therefore, they did not have to introduce Batman, or Superman, or even technically Flash, as he had appeared once on Superman's show (as well as the concept of the Green Lantern). The only character(s) the pilot of that show spent time introducing were J'onn and Wonder Woman (who was then "new" to "man's world"). Even Hawkgirl was treated as a reasonably pre-existing hero.

AVENGERS: EMH isn't coming after any set continuity. I am sure they expect the audience to be familiar with Iron Man and Hulk especially, and to a lessor degree, Thor and Captain America. But that is not the same as JUSTICE LEAGUE's situation. Craig Kyle did not feel the need to have much back-story to set up WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, just diving head-first into the premise almost immediately. And while that season has been a worldwide success, the quality of the story would have been better if the set-up time was better.

A:EMH is more Chris Yost's show, though, and I do get the sense he is a bit more methodical in some ways; I see Kyle as more of the "slam-bang-get to the good stuff" guy. I could be totally wrong, of course. :p

It does set up the show to have the characters be whoever they want them to be on their own terms, which is good. Despite being a challenge to write, in some ways this show has the wind at it's back. No one is predicting doom or expecting it to be worse than what came before, because what came before was rubbish. It means Yost doesn't have to be 100% perfect from the pilot and can build up to excellence naturally without the audience predicting doom. Unless they're me, of course.

TheVileOne

12-15-2009, 12:56 PM

Indeed. However, one advantage that JUSTICE LEAGUE had was that it was tied to prior cartoon continuity. Therefore, they did not have to introduce Batman, or Superman, or even technically Flash, as he had appeared once on Superman's show (as well as the concept of the Green Lantern). The only character(s) the pilot of that show spent time introducing were J'onn and Wonder Woman (who was then "new" to "man's world"). Even Hawkgirl was treated as a reasonably pre-existing hero.

Yeah, but I mean we already know the stories of all these guys. And this show is going to be pretty faithful to the comics.

AVENGERS: EMH isn't coming after any set continuity. I am sure they expect the audience to be familiar with Iron Man and Hulk especially, and to a lessor degree, Thor and Captain America. But that is not the same as JUSTICE LEAGUE's situation. Craig Kyle did not feel the need to have much back-story to set up WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, just diving head-first into the premise almost immediately. And while that season has been a worldwide success, the quality of the story would have been better if the set-up time was better.

Right, but Wolverine and The X-men wasn't about the team coming together.

It does set up the show to have the characters be whoever they want them to be on their own terms, which is good. Despite being a challenge to write, in some ways this show has the wind at it's back. No one is predicting doom or expecting it to be worse than what came before, because what came before was rubbish. It means Yost doesn't have to be 100% perfect from the pilot and can build up to excellence naturally without the audience predicting doom. Unless they're me, of course.

Well for one thing, going by the promo, you definitively have IRON MAN as the leader. He was the founder of the Avengers and one of the originals, but throughout the years, Cap was recognized as the Avengers leader, much like Superman as the leader and chairman of JLA. Now it's not an Avengers show, but in SUPERHERO SQUAD you have a cartoony/goofier version of Iron Man as the team leader of a group of superheroes.

So to me, they are definitely going off of Iron Man's recent popularity from the movie, much like Wolverine did from the X-men movies and Wolverine became the leader of the X-men for that cartoon series.

NightBeetle

12-15-2009, 01:20 PM

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid16671792001?bctid=1849017750

The yanked trailer/promo vid from last year is BACK ONLINE. Apparently its been back up for 3 months too.

Thanks!!!! :up:

So looks like Pym will be both Giant Man and Antman in the series. So this means Hank will switch from both identities back to back throughout the whole season?

TheVileOne

12-15-2009, 07:30 PM

Thanks!!!! :up:

So this means Hank will switch from both identities back to back throughout the whole season?
Not sure exactly on Hank. The promo/video has him as Giantman and the poster has him as Antman.

I don't think it's a big matter of changing identities so much as having a different costume depending on the occassion unlike say when he went to being Yellowjacket.

Also, quarter reports list the series as having 52 episodes.

NightBeetle

12-15-2009, 07:46 PM

Not sure exactly on Hank. The promo/video has him as Giantman and the poster has him as Antman.

I don't think it's a big matter of changing identities so much as having a different costume depending on the occassion unlike say when he went to being Yellowjacket.

Also, quarter reports list the series as having 52 episodes.

Oh okay,thanks for the information. :yay:

Dread

12-16-2009, 03:15 AM

Yeah, but I mean we already know the stories of all these guys. And this show is going to be pretty faithful to the comics.

True, but this show still has to define the characters on their own terms. They still have to have some sort of origin. I mean heck, how many times have we seen Superman and Batman's origins in a DC cartoon, and they're the most well known comic heroes in history. That doesn't mean it has to be long; Hulk's bomb origin could be done at least as a few second flashback for now. Same for Iron Man. The task will be to use air time wisely.

Right, but Wolverine and The X-men wasn't about the team coming together.

Well, technically it was; them coming together again after a year. I would also argue that if we actually saw the X-Men come together, or at least function "normally" for longer than 5 minutes before the explosion and the year gap in time, the story would have flowed better; we would have had a better idea of where the characters came from and what had been lost. But I digress. That isn't AVENGERS' problem. Merely a cautionary tale of the dangers of wanting to bypass "stuff everyone knows" and how it can bite you later on in a season, not having that foundation laid in.

Well for one thing, going by the promo, you definitively have IRON MAN as the leader. He was the founder of the Avengers and one of the originals, but throughout the years, Cap was recognized as the Avengers leader, much like Superman as the leader and chairman of JLA. Now it's not an Avengers show, but in SUPERHERO SQUAD you have a cartoony/goofier version of Iron Man as the team leader of a group of superheroes.

So to me, they are definitely going off of Iron Man's recent popularity from the movie, much like Wolverine did from the X-men movies and Wolverine became the leader of the X-men for that cartoon series.

Only there is a key difference. Not only did Iron Man lead the Avengers at the start in the comics, but has led the Avengers (as well as Force Works, who were essentially the West Coast branch under a new name) for long stretches of time in the comics. It is in character and doesn't step on anyone's toes. Wolverine really never led the X-Men before, and it meant him as well as other characters acting against type. Whether that worked or not is subjective.

Therefore, in the case of A:EMH, Iron Man acting as leader not only takes advantage of his movie fame, but is also accurate to the canon history of the Avengers. It's actually another bit of wind at the series' back. Anyone who screams about it being out of character for Iron Man to lead the team even with Cap there hasn't researched.

Of course, if Stark and Cap don't have differing opinions and whatnot and occasionally disagree, then it will seem simple. But that is a question for over time.

Thanks!!!! :up:

So this means Hank will switch from both identities back to back throughout the whole season?

Not sure exactly on Hank. The promo/video has him as Giantman and the poster has him as Antman.

I don't think it's a big matter of changing identities so much as having a different costume depending on the occassion unlike say when he went to being Yellowjacket.

Also, quarter reports list the series as having 52 episodes.

Yeah, in the comics Hank Pym switches from growing to shrinking quite often, especially after joining the Avengers; Ant-Man felt insecure as the "shrinking hero" on the team so he quickly became Giant-Man not long after the founding. So it makes perfect sense for him to do so. Besides, size alteration is his gimmick, so why not play it to the hilt for action scenes across a season?

I must say, a roster with Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk is going to have to fight some whoppers of villains for it to be really challenging. I also wonder if the show will take another JL approach; not try to feature all 7 heroes in EVERY episode. Having 2-4 per episode allows them all to be fleshed gradually over time. But if Yost and Co. can make more characters per episode work, so be it!

Overall, I am excited over this.

TheVileOne

12-16-2009, 02:31 PM

Only there is a key difference. Not only did Iron Man lead the Avengers at the start in the comics, but has led the Avengers (as well as Force Works, who were essentially the West Coast branch under a new name) for long stretches of time in the comics. It is in character and doesn't step on anyone's toes. Wolverine really never led the X-Men before, and it meant him as well as other characters acting against type. Whether that worked or not is subjective.

Wolveirne has led the X-men AND he also led X-Force which was X-men's black ops branch of the X-men, so meh :p .

Therefore, in the case of A:EMH, Iron Man acting as leader not only takes advantage of his movie fame, but is also accurate to the canon history of the Avengers. It's actually another bit of wind at the series' back. Anyone who screams about it being out of character for Iron Man to lead the team even with Cap there hasn't researched.

If you are going to talk about Force Works, I will talk about X-Force.

I must say, a roster with Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk is going to have to fight some whoppers of villains for it to be really challenging. I also wonder if the show will take another JL approach; not try to feature all 7 heroes in EVERY episode. Having 2-4 per episode allows them all to be fleshed gradually over time. But if Yost and Co. can make more characters per episode work, so be it!

Well if are indeed getting a 52 episode season (remember the days of old when some action cartoons would have like a new episode like every day?) It might have to be like that consistently. I'm sure there will be some certain team-up episodes, but at the end of the day this is still the Avengers and I believe it will be Avengers facing their classic rogues.

bored

12-16-2009, 09:37 PM

When in continuity has Wolverine led the proper X-Men?

Casius--J

12-17-2009, 05:04 AM

Just heard about this for the first time last night and checked out the trailer. It looks pretty good although Iron Man does look like one of the autobots in transformers animated.

And Iron Man being the leader threw me off a little as I'm sure Cap was the leader but I guess IM is pretty popular right now so naturally he'd be pushed to the front as Wolverine has been.

Dread

12-18-2009, 06:48 PM

Wolveirne has led the X-men AND he also led X-Force which was X-men's black ops branch of the X-men, so meh :p .

If you are going to talk about Force Works, I will talk about X-Force.

Well if are indeed getting a 52 episode season (remember the days of old when some action cartoons would have like a new episode like every day?) It might have to be like that consistently. I'm sure there will be some certain team-up episodes, but at the end of the day this is still the Avengers and I believe it will be Avengers facing their classic rogues.

Wolverine led X-Force when the same writers of WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN launched the book as they were more or less writing WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN. I don't believe that really counts in the same way as, say, Storm's leadership experience.

Yeah, I remember when BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES aired every afternoon on Fox Kids and had a 52 episode first season. Kang was in the teaser and hopefully this Avengers show respects the past while modernizing it for the second decade of the 21st century.

When in continuity has Wolverine led the proper X-Men?

I think once in the 1980's Storm all but coerced Wolverine to lead the team for a period.

Wolverine also challenged Rogue for leadership in some "test" back in the late 90's during Claremont's first return to the series. He lost to her. At the time I thought that was baloney, but in the late 90's I was still quite a hardcore Wolverine fanboy.

Just heard about this for the first time last night and checked out the trailer. It looks pretty good although Iron Man does look like one of the autobots in transformers animated.

And Iron Man being the leader threw me off a little as I'm sure Cap was the leader but I guess IM is pretty popular right now so naturally he'd be pushed to the front as Wolverine has been.

Iron Man founded the Avengers before they found Cap in the ice, technically. The Avengers for a while had a "rotating chairman" position in terms of leadership, and Iron Man led the Avengers for stretches of time with Cap there. So did, technically, Wasp.

Chewy

01-21-2010, 10:54 PM

According to Askmen.com (http://www.askmen.com/celebs/women/actress/dawn-olivieri/index.html) Dawn Olivieri will voice Pepper Potts on the show

And according to Dawn Olivieri (http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=269005987093&id=75986785119) the show will premiere this fall

TheVileOne

01-22-2010, 02:08 AM

This will not be a 52 episode season. Marvel says the plan is 2 seasons with 26 episodes each.

NightBeetle

02-04-2010, 01:44 PM

Avengers Animation Gives Clues To Movie Lineup? (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/02/04/avengers-animation-gives-clues-to-movie-lineup/)

http://i48.tinypic.com/14uc8zr.jpg

Froma publishing fair in Hong Kong comes this look at the Avengers teams for animation seems a good way to get the kids used to differing continuities from the get go!
Could this reflect the upcoming movie cast? Obviously no Wolverine, and maybe Black Panther is his substitute in the slightly-older version of the team, but we’ve got Wasp and Ant Man on both teams, as well as The Hulk.
And yes, “Hero Up!” sounds almost as convincing as “Geronimo…” doesn’t it?

yyanna2

02-05-2010, 04:51 AM

would be glad to see...
_______________
Contract Hire (http://www.economyleasinguk.co.uk/)

JackIvyGB

02-05-2010, 05:18 AM

I think I have fallen in love with the design for Wasp. Something about it is just so...AWESOME. It's got like a retro sci-fi chic pixie-ish thing going on.

Dread

02-08-2010, 03:08 AM

Interesting. The last teaser image of "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES" had Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Wasp, and Ant-Man. This one at least remains consistent with all of them, and adds Black Panther. He's had a long history with the Avengers, and with BET having difficulty launching his own 'toon, it makes sense to merge him in with the Avengers. Plus, I imagine that, as Bruce Timm once said when launching "JUSTICE LEAGUE", they might not have wanted their team to only have "a bunch of white people".

The designs look slightly tweaked from the last promotional image. And it seems that Black Panther's cape might be longer here than in the comics, where it usually went to the small of his back (although it could also just be Hulk's purple pants). At any rate, it'll be cool seeing Black Panther show up in something since "ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2". Much like Captain America, T'Challa represents the hero of a whole nation (bringing in international flavor), and like Iron Man, he has a wealth of technological and financial resources. Everyone's probably counting down the episodes until Hawkeye shows up, but Black Panther's cool by me, too. This brings the "official" roster of the show to 7, which is fine for a superhero team show. Besides Jarvis, naturally.

The last Avengers cartoon, it should be noted, had the Falcon in it. And while I've grown to like Falcon more in Ed Brubaker's CAPTAIN AMERICA series, overall Black Panther > Falcon, especially for an Avengers series. After all, T'Challa's arch nemesis Klaw was a common sight in some Masters of Evil rosters.

I'm excited for this show, not only for the Avengers but to see what Chris Yost can do running a TV show as the main story editor without Craig Kyle around. I'm curious who'll be voicing some of these Avengers; even if the show is almost two years away, they should be at least doing auditions now. If word is being leaked online of a "YOUNG JUSTICE" cartoon, it may be a matter of time before we learn more about this show.

Wasp does have a very "modern retro" costume, although I am curious if the limits of a TV animation budget would allow her to change her costume as often as she does in the comics. ;)

The Hulk is still a bit of a wild card on the cartoon roster for me. He's obviously there for recognition and popularity; next to Iron Man and Thor, he probably is the most well known one to an average kid. The writers really don't have a wealth of material to go by for Hulk on the Avengers, since in the 616 version his interactions with them were limited, and in Ultimates they were mostly antagonistic. How do you make the "default" rampaging monster Hulk workable on a team show? Will the Hulk himself actually be part of the team, or will Bruce Banner be, who merely tries to "aim" Hulk at the right time at the right threats? And if the Hulk is part of the team, how will his whole character dynamic be handled? It would be boring if the Hulk was just kind of there. It will be interesting how that is handled. Atop of the other character development, of course.

52 episodes have been ordered up front, so Marvel has a lot of confidence in this.

Zant

02-08-2010, 02:04 PM

http://www.newsarama.com/tv/Lamarr-Avengers-Animated-100208.html
This show is already recording for season 2. I'm sure Marvel could start this show today if they wanted

NightBeetle

02-08-2010, 02:50 PM

AVENGERS Animated Assembling w/ Phil Lamarr (http://www.newsarama.com/tv/Lamarr-Avengers-Animated-100208.html)

Newsarama: So I have to ask you about The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes...

Phil Lamarr: On the off chance that it actually exists. [laughs]

Nrama: Yeah! [laughs] It's nowhere! The cast isn't listed anywhere and the only reason I know anyone who is in the cast is because I interviewed Dawn Olivieri from Heroes who is playing Pepper Potts and Rick Wasserman from Planet Hulk who told me he's playing Thor and Absorbing Man.

Lamarr: Yes. And Fred Tatasciore is playing the Hulk...

Nrama: Right.

Lamarr: ...who is the Hulk. Because he's the only one who can do that voice and survive. [laughs]

Nrama: Rick said it was really hard to do the Hulk voice...but he was emoting Hulk.

Lamarr: Yeah, he was 'talking in full sentences Hulk'.

Nrama: And you're playing Jarvis.

Lamarr: I'm playing Jarvis. The Favreau Iron Man Jarvis, not the classic comic book Jarvis. This is the J.A.R.V.I.S....I don't know what it stands for, but he's the artificial intelligence, disembodied voice. [laughs]

Nrama: Are you doing any other characters? You usually do a ton for each project.

Lamarr: I'm also doing Wonder Man, with the Masters of Evil.

Nrama: What other characters are we going to see?

Lamarr: We're going to see all of them.

Nrama: All of them?

Lamarr: They're basically telling the Avengers story [starting] from Avengers #1. And it's not set in that time, put it follows the same plot points as the original.

Nrama: So it starts off with the Loki plot?

Lamarr: Yeah, there's Loki, there's Hulk, there's Cap and Masters of Evil...it's following those fundamental original story lines.

Nrama: Does it ever diverge? I know you guys are doing Season 2 now...

Lamarr: It's not slavishly following, but they're taking the broad strokes. They're taking what is best from the story lines. But the characterizations are shifted a lot. Honestly, some of the characters in the original comic books...the characterizations weren't very strong, where they've shifted over the years. Like Ant-Man.

Nrama: Oh yeah! Ant-Man has been all over the place. [laughs]

Lamarr: Yeah, he's changing costumes, 'I'm a drunk! I'm a wife beater! Arrgh!' [laughs] There's some of that, but I think...even Tony Stark. 'I'm an industrialist. Now I drink.'

Nrama: Is there any 'Demon in a Bottle' in there?

Lamarr: No. It's interesting. I think they're taking a lot of Iron Man elements from the prominent image of Iron Man that is out there now, which is the movie. But they have a little more liberty with some of the characters that haven't been put out there yet. Wally Wingert is doing Ant-Man and Chris Cox is doing Hawkeye. They introduce Black Panther, which again is not completely following the original story.

Nrama: We're all curious about the cast, because very little information is actually out there.

Lamarr: Colleen O'Shaughnessey is The Wasp. Who else...?

Nrama: Are you allowed to tell me?

Lamarr: Well, no one ever said, 'Don't say anything.'

Nrama: Who's playing Loki?

Lamarr: I don't know. I wasn't in those episodes. There is a whole set of Norse god characters...I just saw a reference in the script...in the script I just read, I saw, 'Thor walking with Odin,' but Odin doesn't speak, so he wasn't there. [laughs] It's like, 'Hmmm'. So I don't know who's playing Odin. I'm trying to think if I ever saw Loki. I know Nolan North is playing Baldur.

Nrama: Why did they do it so early? It's funny that you guys are recording the second season and the first hasn't aired yet.

Lamarr: Well, I think Marvel just had a burst of energy or capital. [laughs] I don't know. It was weird. At the time, auditioning for it...I believe we auditioned for that at the same time they auditioned for the kiddy Avengers series [Super Hero Squad]. And obviously they weren't going to start both at the same time. But they were in production at the same time. I think they were just maximizing their production capabilities. Like, well, we can record it and animate it whenever we want, and then air it whenever we want.

Nrama: Do you know when it's going to air? What station it will be on?

Lamarr: I don't know. I mean, in a lot of ways, Marvel is smart to take control of it, instead of having to get notes from some network, and have them nickle and dime them. 'We're going to make a great show, that we own, then we'll sell it to you if you like it.' Who knows? By the time the finish it, there will probably be a couple of networks that are options to air it that didn't exist when they started. [laughs] Like Disney XD wasn't around.

Nrama: Any surprise characters we might be seeing?

Lamarr: It depends on the depth of your comic book knowledge, whether it's a surprise or not. Nobody surprised me! [laughs]

Nrama: That's because you're a comic book guy! [laughs]

Lamarr: Although if the Purple Man showed up...that would be a surprise.

Nrama: [laughs] Awesome.

Lamarr: But that hasn't happened yet.

Nrama: What is the tone of the series? How dark is it? A lot of comic book movies are pretty dark, as are many of the comics themselves. But it depends which version you read...who is this particular series aimed at?

Lamarr: I would say that the tone on [I]Avengers is mature but not dark. It's not a kiddy show. I mean, there is peril. There is a lot of action, but I don't think there is any effort or desire to make it gritty. These are heroes. I would say the thing that is most unique about it is, it's more character-driven than most superhero action series. The relationships between the characters [are the focus]. You're seeing more of that than you have, I think, in other series. I think that makes it skew a little older...but there is as much action as anybody of any age could want.

Nrama: What are you reading now?

[Lamarr reaches into his bag and pulls out a giant stack of new comic books and trades.]

Lamarr: I've been reading Executive Assistant which looks like porn, but isn't. [laughs]

Nrama: Oh my god, that is a giant bag of comics!

Lamarr: I'm so far behind. The books that I'm reading now that I'm loving...Iron Man with the Stark Disassembled storyline, everything Fables. Jack, Cinderella, all of it. The Boys, even though I'm embarrassed. I have to look around and see who's around before I start reading it. But that's true of any Garth Ennis. All Buffy. I've been a Buffy fan since episode one. I would get mocked. I would come into Mad TV rehearsals the day after Buffy aired and I would tell people, 'Oh you have to watch!' And no one would care. They were like, 'What? Buffy? The Vampire Slayer?' They would just look at me like I was insane. But it was so good. Let's see...of course, Kevin Smith's Batman: The Widening Gyre...you have to buy anything with a Bill Sienkiewicz cover. You have to. Oh! Ed Brubaker stuff. Criminal. And everything by Robert Kirkman...well, that's not true...I'm not reading everything by Robert Kirkman, but I read Walking Dead religiously. And Invincible. Oh! And of course, Mark Waid's Irredeemable. It's really good. Waid is just so amazing. What he's doing. Because he knows the archetypes of comic books so well. They're just in him. He can turn them on their ear and come at them from a new angle.

TheVileOne

02-08-2010, 03:03 PM

Wow . . . Phil Lamarr just blew the lid off the show. I wonder if he got a dressing down.

Also, Phil should take note that Travis Willingham (ROY MUSTANG!) does Hulk on Super Hero Squad. Yes, it's a comedic Hulk, but its still a good Hulk.

Unbelievable because whenever I would try to get into Avengers talk, things would get mum pretty quickly. And Phil just lets a lot of spoilers get out there, dang :) .

OK, so now we know that Hawkeye and Wonder Man will definitely be in there, so Dread can start breathing a little easier.

Chewy

02-08-2010, 04:01 PM

Sounds great.

Dread

02-08-2010, 09:09 PM

Wow...just...WOW. Nothing for a year, and then BOOM, Phil LaMarr all but hands everything to Newsarama. Maybe his days playing Gambit on WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN helped his ability to score some goods, mon ami'?

Wow . . . Phil Lamarr just blew the lid off the show. I wonder if he got a dressing down.

Also, Phil should take note that Travis Willingham (ROY MUSTANG!) does Hulk on Super Hero Squad. Yes, it's a comedic Hulk, but its still a good Hulk.

Unbelievable because whenever I would try to get into Avengers talk, things would get mum pretty quickly. And Phil just lets a lot of spoilers get out there, dang :) .

OK, so now we know that Hawkeye and Wonder Man will definitely be in there, so Dread can start breathing a little easier.

Phil said that "no one told him NOT to say anything", so this could be an "accidental/on purpose" leak, like that last image of the team, or not.

To be honest I was more concerned about Hawkeye than Wonder Man. Clint is more of a "long time B-List Avenger" to me than Simon Williams was. Heck, he often spent years of time dead. Granted, you can't have Vision without him, unless they're fudging stuff.

Casting facts, as revealed now:

Phil LaMarr - J.A.R.V.I.S., Wonder Man/Simon Williams
Rick D. Wasserman - Thor, Absorbing Man/Crusher Creel
Dawn Olivieri - Pepper Potts
Fred Tatasciore - Hulk
Wally Wingert - Ant-Man/Hank Pym
Chris Cox - Hawkeye
Colleen O'Shaughnessey - Janet Van Dyne/The Wasp

Interesting that they are sticking with the movie version of J.A.R.V.I.S. Part of me is disappointed, although I can understand wanting to keep Iron Man as close to the movie version as possible, to keep kids familiar. Most cartoons try to be as close to whatever film is out at the time as possible, even X-MEN EVOLUTION (whether deliberately or not, in terms of some designs). It looks like the membership will be fluid for the Avengers, although likely some characters (such as the six shown) may be "regulars". This at least frees up 1-2 heroes to show up for various episodes. Although I hope they learn the lesson of JUSTICE LEAGUE; you can't properly flesh 7 heroes every episode, so only focus on maybe 2-4 every episode, and just rotate. AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND tried to shove in all 7 as often as possible, and it was one of many reasons why it was short changed.

The only major role we still don't know about, besides the villains, is Captain America. I'm very curious who has that part. I imagine it can't be easy to cast.

The theme of the show sounds fine; not dark, but no comedy. Not slavishly faithful to the comics (as a lot of those 60's tales are very blunt and cheesy by today's standards), but catching the spirit, such as the Masters of Evil and whatnot. And it does seem the order of 52 episodes in production is being done to prevent the sort of issues that can happen when a show completely stops production between seasons, as TSSM and perhaps even W&TXM did to a degree. They want as many episodes in the can by 2012 as possible to go with the movie, and this sounds like a solid strategy to do so.

Chewy

02-08-2010, 09:17 PM

Phil LaMarr - J.A.R.V.I.S., Wonder Man/Simon Williams
Rick D. Wasserman - Thor, Absorbing Man/Crusher Creel
Dawn Olivieri - Pepper Potts
Fred Tatasciore - Hulk
Wally Wingert - Ant-Man/Hank Pym
Chris Cox - Hawkeye
Colleen O'Shaughnessey - Janet Van Dyne/The Wasp
and Nolan North as Balder

TheVileOne

02-08-2010, 09:30 PM

Also Kari Wahlgren as Enchantress.

Also, this supports Yost's promise that they are basically doing like the whole 616 Avengers canon from the beginning.

Wasserman as Thor is odd yet intriguing casting. I liked Wasserman's Hulk in Planet Hulk, I was just kind of hoping it would be the guy that does Thor in VS. and Tales of Asgard (same guy).

LaMarr also plays Black Panther on Superhero Squad. Can one guess he will play T'Challa in this series as well?

One thing I'd wonder is if they'd ever be ballsy enough to try Avengers Dissassembled, though I personally hope they avoid going that route. I think a couple episodes though of a NEW AVENGERS type of team would be neat for the novelty of it. I also wonder if the show will be established as separate from the New WaTXM-verse and new Thor-verse for those shows.

Dread

02-09-2010, 02:34 AM

and Nolan North as Balder

Cool. Nolan North gets around. :up:

Also Kari Wahlgren as Enchantress.

Also, this supports Yost's promise that they are basically doing like the whole 616 Avengers canon from the beginning.

Wasserman as Thor is odd yet intriguing casting. I liked Wasserman's Hulk in Planet Hulk, I was just kind of hoping it would be the guy that does Thor in VS. and Tales of Asgard (same guy).

LaMarr also plays Black Panther on Superhero Squad. Can one guess he will play T'Challa in this series as well?

One thing I'd wonder is if they'd ever be ballsy enough to try Avengers Dissassembled, though I personally hope they avoid going that route. I think a couple episodes though of a NEW AVENGERS type of team would be neat for the novelty of it. I also wonder if the show will be established as separate from the New WaTXM-verse and new Thor-verse for those shows.

Good, another HULK VS. reprisal besides Fred Tatasciore. She was good as Enchantress before, and I doubt that will change.

It is possible LaMarr could play Black Panther both here and in SUPER HERO SQUAD. He's a very talented voice actor. Personally I'd have loved if Keith David could have returned to reprise the role of Black Panther as he did in the 1990's FANTASTIC FOUR cartoon, which was a waste of a good performance, since the episode itself wasn't so hot. I doubt it, though. LaMarr would likely be fine for the Panther.

It does seem that Yost is following 616 canon, although likely modernizing it, without making it too "Ultimate". I would hope any "Avengers Disassembled" story waits until later on, not in Season 1-2. The Avengers have a lot of rich history to mine through before that has to come in.

TheVileOne

02-10-2010, 05:42 PM

Korvac!

Dread

02-10-2010, 06:04 PM

If the 90's show could try to handle a Proteus story, why not Korvac?

Kang, Ultron, the Masters of Evil and likely Loki are confirmed.

ironman29758

02-11-2010, 02:58 PM

Avengers Animation Gives Clues To Movie Lineup? (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/02/04/avengers-animation-gives-clues-to-movie-lineup/)

http://i48.tinypic.com/14uc8zr.jpg
the Febuary 10th 2010 amazing spider-man comic might prove this statement right
Iron man going to an Avenger meeting whose member contains;Hulk, Ironman, Captain America, and Thor(missing his pants apparently). and the first Ultimates and Avengers were
Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Ant Man/Giantman, Wasp and are appearing in two animated series(Superhero Squad and Avengers) plus Nick Fury.
.

Ceb-Man

02-12-2010, 05:56 PM

I cannot wait to see this cartoon.

Ceb-Man

02-12-2010, 05:58 PM

the Febuary 10th 2010 amazing spider-man comic might prove this statement right
Iron man going to an Avenger meeting whose member contains;Hulk, Ironman, Captain America, and Thor(missing his pants apparently). and the first Ultimates and Avengers were
Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Ant Man/Giantman, Wasp and are appearing in two animated series(Superhero Squad and Avengers) plus Nick Fury.
.

Looks like Black Panther will be on team at some point.

TheVileOne

02-15-2010, 02:05 AM

I'll freak out if I see Taskmaster finally animated.

scatterax

02-15-2010, 02:18 PM

I'll freak out if I see Taskmaster finally animated.

to bad if he is than it'll be in (yet another) simplified art style.

Dread

02-15-2010, 05:48 PM

Taskmaster is an obscure villain compared to other Avengers villains, especially since I imagine we will be getting villains from each Avenger's rogues gallery, like Thor, Hulk, Capt. America. But, it would be pretty cool. I imagine the UDON costume would animate better.

TheVileOne

02-16-2010, 03:35 PM

Dread

02-17-2010, 04:49 PM

I think you can use Taskmaster much like how Justice League used Deadshot. It wouldn't be surprising to see a Justin Hammer or supervillain type employ Taskmaster's talent, especially if its the competent Taskmaster as tends to be now and again.

True. That's certainly possible. If some boss villain wanted someone who can counter Captain America who works for a paycheck, Taskmaster's an easy guy.

To be honest I am still not sure how to gauge what will be coming from this show. I expect it to be decent, and of course the best Avengers TV series yet made; the problem is such a bar is very low and easy to surpass. Even SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED was a better show than AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND, or the dull as dishwater SILVER SURFER show. This will be the first time we really see Chris Yost head line a series by himself, without Greg Johnson or Craig Kyle in his corner. He's the captain of this ship. Even for his TMNT episodes, he was basically a beat writer working under the editing guidance of others from Mirage. He wrote part of THEIR long term arcs. I've read some of Yost's solo comics like X-MEN KINGBREAKER or the RUNAWAYS/YOUNG AVENGERS SECRET INVASION mini, but TV is another beast.

I don't expect the show to be a comedy by all intents like FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH was, but will it be as mature as JUSTICE LEAGUE was? Even in it's first, flawed season, it was still a mature show, willing to have conversations with subtext and even innuendo. Of course, when every episode was 44 minutes, they had the chance to fill time with banter. Will there be subplots? A seasonal arc? Or not? It's very hard to know what to expect, and as a cynical fan with a long, LONG memory, it becomes easy to assume the worst, every time.

I'm sure it'll be a step forward for THE AVENGERS, but will it be the sort of knock-out punch to actually dethrone JUSTICE LEAGUE or JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED after so many years? Will it have that combination of action, characterization, mature plot and above all well paced action? Or will it be more like the series finale of THE BATMAN, which almost were Justice League episodes? Time will tell, but the wait can be excruciating.

TheVileOne

02-20-2010, 12:12 AM

Dread

02-22-2010, 06:32 PM

Chris Yost has earned and deserves this spot. I have no reason to doubt him just because he usually worked with other guys or hasn't served as the actual helmer. If anything all of his experience has gotten him ready for this.

If anything Dread your mind should be at ease because Chris Yost had NOTHING to do with Spidey Unlimited or United They Stand which you keep talking about. The animated projects Chris Yost worked on were GOOD projects and ones you also like.

I've enjoyed pretty much all of the comic books he's written and co-written as well.

All the best start somehwere. James Cameron in the early 1980's did matte paintings for low budget movies like John Carpenter's Escape From NY. Before that he was a truck driver for like college books.

I wasn't trying or intending to imply that Chris Yost didn't earn or deserve a shot at the big time, nor that he wasn't talented. While I would imagine that as a Toonzone beat writer you've probably gotten to know Yost more than I ever will, what impressions I have gotten from his various interviews and commentaries is that he does usually know his stuff; while he wasn't, say, an authority on THOR's universe, I do believe he probably knows more about it than some other TV writers. I didn't really notice any "continuity hiccups" in some of his solo comic works I have read; X-MEN KINGBREAKER I would almost argue had a more dramatic showdown against Vulcan for me because Havok had more emotional investment, since Vulcan killed his father, than Black Bolt's duel with Vulcan in WAR OF KINGS proper. KINGBREAKER almost had little going for it beyond action set-pieces, but those were executed well so I enjoyed it.

Still, Bruce Timm for some interviews about JUSTICE LEAGUE in 2001 stated that, to paraphrase, opportunities like doing JL or the Avengers literally may only come around once in a decade, or once every twenty years, even. And that when such an opportunity comes, the fans will never forgive you if you don't get it right. AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES has taken a major step forward towards doing that, with a team roster that appears made up of the classic founders, including the "big three", as well as long time B-Listers like Hank Pym, Wasp, and maybe even Black Panther. We know that some other lessor famed Avengers like Wonder Man will appear, which means Hawkeye is probably inevitable (although to be blunt, Hawkeye's had better animation luck than Wonder Man, if one can imagine; he had IRON MAN Season 2 in the 90's). The only member who seems there by obligation is the Hulk, whose Avengers membership was very brief in the comics, but he remains popular with the general public (especially on the small screen). Of course it could be possible that it is also brief in this AVENGERS show, perhaps as a seasonal arc or whatnot. We don't know. I did read data that suggested some material from an aborted Hulk cartoon from 2008 or so is being mixed into this AVENGERS show, and it remains to be seen how that may be handled; it could be the "Weapon X" of the Avengers, if that makes sense, which could be interesting. Just so long as Iron Man and Hulk don't totally hog the show due to their popularity.

(Even though, for all of Bruce Timm's skill and wisdom, Batman hogged a lot of JUSTICE LEAGUE/UNLIMITED, so the temptations of that are never easy.)

I know everyone starts from somewhere, and I know that Yost wasn't involved with many of those crappy shows from the late 90's. The irony is that if TV.com is to be believed, Yost actually wrote far more episodes of 2k3 TMNT than X-MEN EVOLUTION (which Kyle and Johnson were more involved with). I'd argue the low point of his credit list were the 4 episodes of "THE BATMAN" he wrote, because a few of them were not very good at all. Right now the show that seems to have his heaviest stamp is FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH, which while not the greatest show ever, I think gets a bad rap because it came out right as JLU was ending, and expectations were ridiculously high. Taken as a sitcom superhero show (not many notches removed from THE TICK), it works a lot better, and midway through the season, the writers realized that and went with their strength.

The thing is, this very well could be the show of Yost's career. If it underwhelms, the fans will eat him alive. If it does well, though, then he could probably ride it forever like Bruce Timm does with some of his past projects (not that Timm & Co. can't do great work nowadays, but c'mon, not every one of those DCU animated things is an instant classic). The production of this AVENGERS show has been kept very secretive, but while it breeds anticipation, it also leaves those doing the anticipating to sort of stew too much without any info.

JUSTICE LEAGUE and it's successor, JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED are daunting shows to try to match or top. At the same time, they were not infallible or perfect shows; if anything, both needed a full season to find their feet. They were definitely shows that had to crawl before they could walk, and walk before they ran. Yost at the very least has them as hindsight as to what to do right and what to avoid.

For a comic book analogy, there are some battles where the stakes are so cosmically high that nothing short of excellence is good enough. This is one of those times. Still, I am curious to see, ahem, "unfiltered Yost" on a TV show.

TheVileOne

02-23-2010, 12:03 AM

I wasn't trying or intending to imply that Chris Yost didn't earn or deserve a shot at the big time, nor that he wasn't talented. While I would imagine that as a Toonzone beat writer you've probably gotten to know Yost more than I ever will, what impressions I have gotten from his various interviews and commentaries is that he does usually know his stuff; while he wasn't, say, an authority on THOR's universe, I do believe he probably knows more about it than some other TV writers. I didn't really notice any "continuity hiccups" in some of his solo comic works I have read; X-MEN KINGBREAKER I would almost argue had a more dramatic showdown against Vulcan for me because Havok had more emotional investment, since Vulcan killed his father, than Black Bolt's duel with Vulcan in WAR OF KINGS proper. KINGBREAKER almost had little going for it beyond action set-pieces, but those were executed well so I enjoyed it.

I think you just enjoy standing on your soapbox of skepticism ;) .

Still, Bruce Timm for some interviews about JUSTICE LEAGUE in 2001 stated that, to paraphrase, opportunities like doing JL or the Avengers literally may only come around once in a decade, or once every twenty years, even. And that when such an opportunity comes, the fans will never forgive you if you don't get it right. AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES has taken a major step forward towards doing that, with a team roster that appears made up of the classic founders, including the "big three", as well as long time B-Listers like Hank Pym, Wasp, and maybe even Black Panther. We know that some other lessor famed Avengers like Wonder Man will appear, which means Hawkeye is probably inevitable (although to be blunt, Hawkeye's had better animation luck than Wonder Man, if one can imagine; he had IRON MAN Season 2 in the 90's). The only member who seems there by obligation is the Hulk, whose Avengers membership was very brief in the comics, but he remains popular with the general public (especially on the small screen). Of course it could be possible that it is also brief in this AVENGERS show, perhaps as a seasonal arc or whatnot. We don't know. I did read data that suggested some material from an aborted Hulk cartoon from 2008 or so is being mixed into this AVENGERS show, and it remains to be seen how that may be handled; it could be the "Weapon X" of the Avengers, if that makes sense, which could be interesting. Just so long as Iron Man and Hulk don't totally hog the show due to their popularity.

Obviously this isn't going to be a word for word retelling of the comics. So they can adjust the Hulk's story and status with the team. Having Hulk in there adds an interesting X-factor.

Also if you are going to make the Justice League comparison, keep in mind that the series incorporated John Stewart GL and Hawkgirl into the original team's lineup. This was somewhat controversial at the time, but also Timm basically admitted that they needed a more PC lineup and would it be bad if all the members were male or white.

So again I'm not really sure what you are worried or concerned about Dread. You keep bringing up how bad those older shows were, but this looks nothing like the late 90's garbage. We are getting a show with the big 3. And they are going to incorporate Avengers mainstays and milestone characters as far as we know as well.

(Even though, for all of Bruce Timm's skill and wisdom, Batman hogged a lot of JUSTICE LEAGUE/UNLIMITED, so the temptations of that are never easy.)

He hogs a lot of the animated movies too, check out Crisis on 2 Earths ;) .

I know everyone starts from somewhere, and I know that Yost wasn't involved with many of those crappy shows from the late 90's. The irony is that if TV.com is to be believed, Yost actually wrote far more episodes of 2k3 TMNT than X-MEN EVOLUTION (which Kyle and Johnson were more involved with). I'd argue the low point of his credit list were the 4 episodes of "THE BATMAN" he wrote, because a few of them were not very good at all. Right now the show that seems to have his heaviest stamp is FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH, which while not the greatest show ever, I think gets a bad rap because it came out right as JLU was ending, and expectations were ridiculously high. Taken as a sitcom superhero show (not many notches removed from THE TICK), it works a lot better, and midway through the season, the writers realized that and went with their strength.

I enjoy World's Greatest Heroes a lot. I just think some of the VA's are miscast and it just very much sounds like an Ocean Group Canadian anime dub. So all the Canadian accents just sound a bit iffy at times IMHO.

The thing is, this very well could be the show of Yost's career. If it underwhelms, the fans will eat him alive. If it does well, though, then he could probably ride it forever like Bruce Timm does with some of his past projects (not that Timm & Co. can't do great work nowadays, but c'mon, not every one of those DCU animated things is an instant classic). The production of this AVENGERS show has been kept very secretive, but while it breeds anticipation, it also leaves those doing the anticipating to sort of stew too much without any info.

OK, now this is sort of where I take umbrage. You go on this tangent of THEY BETTER DO IT RIGHT OR THE FANS WILL EAT HIM ALIVE. I mean, what kind of hyperbole is that? I got to be honest, Justice League was not a perfect show and I feel at times they weren't really getting it right. The first season was downright weak storytelling and character wise. I don't feel Unlimited did a good job of juggling the supporting cast. I don't agree with your message that you keep repeating YOU BETTER GET IT RIGHT OR WE WILL BE MADZ AT YOU! Honestly, they owe us nothing and that reason being because I know for a fact that the people working on the show are as big of fans as we are of this stuff. There's literally been no evidence that the show is going down a bad path or that we should doubt the integrity of this show besides that there was a crappy Avengers show that this creative team had nothing to do with. That show honestly looked like an Avi Arad show. I don't mean disrespect to Avi Arad since he did a lot for Marvel and helping get it where he is, but sometimes he had a penchant for micro-managing and overdoing it with properties and it looked like he desperately wanted Avengers to be more toyetic and power rangers like. Spider-man Unlimited also turned out the way it did to be more toyetic and kid friendly (spider-man changing outfits and such). Avi Arad isn't managing or producing this show. I jokingly addressed this to Josh Fine and they aren't manipulating this show to have stupid power up/armor up transformation and what not so the show will be more toy friendly. So I mean, THERE YOU GO RIGHT THERE! The intent is to make a pure honest classic Avengers style show.

They are planning 52 episodes. Also right there plans how important they feel the show is that they want an epic length series.

JUSTICE LEAGUE and it's successor, JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED are daunting shows to try to match or top. At the same time, they were not infallible or perfect shows; if anything, both needed a full season to find their feet. They were definitely shows that had to crawl before they could walk, and walk before they ran. Yost at the very least has them as hindsight as to what to do right and what to avoid.

Well to me my critique is, Ultimate Avengers, those movies weren't really the Ultimates. There were some similar costumes and events, but overall those shows shared little content wise to the Ultimates comic. Characterizations were much more like the 616 counterparts. So from my perspective, while it was nice to have some edgy Avengers animation, it felt like a somewhat half-baked adaptation of the Ultimates while avoiding the truly shocking and controversial moments that Millar wrote. However, that's good on the other hand because . . . I freaking hate Ultimates. So I'm glad they didn't do most of that.

For a comic book analogy, there are some battles where the stakes are so cosmically high that nothing short of excellence is good enough. This is one of those times. Still, I am curious to see, ahem, "unfiltered Yost" on a TV show.

It's not just Yost but also guys like Josh Fine who have done a very good job of steering the ship creatively at Marvel Animation. Basically, the point is the crew does not pervert the style or integrity of the show to make it more toyetic and kid friendly. Yes these characters are marketed and merchandise but the crew sees the brands and the characters themselves as what's marketable and not making stupid armor variations and transformations to make the characters more appealing.

Dread

02-23-2010, 03:06 AM

I think you just enjoy standing on your soapbox of skepticism ;) .

Okay, I won't deny that. :hehe:

Obviously this isn't going to be a word for word retelling of the comics. So they can adjust the Hulk's story and status with the team. Having Hulk in there adds an interesting X-factor.

Also if you are going to make the Justice League comparison, keep in mind that the series incorporated John Stewart GL and Hawkgirl into the original team's lineup. This was somewhat controversial at the time, but also Timm basically admitted that they needed a more PC lineup and would it be bad if all the members were male or white.

So again I'm not really sure what you are worried or concerned about Dread. You keep bringing up how bad those older shows were, but this looks nothing like the late 90's garbage. We are getting a show with the big 3. And they are going to incorporate Avengers mainstays and milestone characters as far as we know as well.

And there are still some DC fans who didn't like that either Stewart or Hawkgirl were used. Now, the Avengers do have Black Panther as an option to break up the flow of white faces, but that also goes with the comics, since he was created in 1966, ages before DC's Black Lightening. Granted, Wasp is still the token girl of the team, although there weren't too many women on the team until the 70's era, and even then...

I wouldn't expect EXACT re-tellings of the comics. The Silver Age stuff was fine for the time, but a lot of it reads like rubbish now, and even unintentional comedy. Those stories would need some revisions, and some modern interpretations, without just making them "Ultimate". Which it did sound like that was the idea, according to LaMarr.

Hulk is a big X-Factor. It is easy to rely on him too much, especially with characters like Wasp or Pym who the average viewer might not give a spit about. How does one write him on a superhero team? Hulk usually doesn't do things like cooperation or team tactics (unless he's in one of his alternate personalities, but to be honest I don't see a show delving into that; none have since the 90's). Would Banner be part of the team and he merely tries to "aim" the Hulk at their enemies? Of course, as I suggested, it could be part of an arc where the Hulk does eventually leave the team for whatever reasons, only it is played out in a longer span than two issues. Which could work, and provide tension. Having Thor and Hulk on a team is a lot of muscle, and not having Hulk could cause a bit of a flexing gap for some battles afterward.

I will say the more I look at Captain America's design, the more I like it. It looks a bit inspired by Jack Kirby, which is a good thing. Iron Man's helmet makes him look a little dumb-founded, but the mouth-piece is always the trickiest part of his helmet, IMO.

Like I said, in terms of the cast, the show is on the right track so far. It says a lot when the bar for an AVENGERS show is so low, we have to go, "Hey, they have all the characters you'd expect there", but it is what it is, and that's still good. I certainly wouldn't mind Black Panther on the cast as well, long term.

He hogs a lot of the animated movies too, check out Crisis on 2 Earths ;) .

I did, actually, via the NYC advanced screening at the Paley Center. I wrote an article about it on Examiner. In their defense, Batman sat out Act 2. :p

I enjoy World's Greatest Heroes a lot. I just think some of the VA's are miscast and it just very much sounds like an Ocean Group Canadian anime dub. So all the Canadian accents just sound a bit iffy at times IMHO.

I actually enjoy Ocean Group dubs, personally. I think part of it was that people expected the show to be more serious, and to handle the action sequences better. The action was a bit mundane and the show struggled to build serious tension; Dr. Doom was often little more menacing than Skeletor was in HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE (least the old version). But that wasn't the strength of the show. The strength was the comedy, and the interaction among the Four. That the show nailed, and once they realized that and focused more on that, from about episode 14 onward, the show viewed a lot better. Dr. Doom is a hard villain to translate, anyway. The Four themselves are a hard franchise, anyway.

But, yeah, it was 2006. JLU had just ended with about as good a finale as anyone could expect. The second Four film flopped. Expectations were high, and Cartoon Network did not treat the show well. Frankly I was stunned Marvel even trusted them with SUPER HERO SQUAD after how poorly they treated FF:WGH. Especially with Disney XD and NickToons as homes for Marvel animation.

OK, now this is sort of where I take umbrage. You go on this tangent of THEY BETTER DO IT RIGHT OR THE FANS WILL EAT HIM ALIVE. I mean, what kind of hyperbole is that? I got to be honest, Justice League was not a perfect show and I feel at times they weren't really getting it right. The first season was downright weak storytelling and character wise. I don't feel Unlimited did a good job of juggling the supporting cast. I don't agree with your message that you keep repeating YOU BETTER GET IT RIGHT OR WE WILL BE MADZ AT YOU! Honestly, they owe us nothing and that reason being because I know for a fact that the people working on the show are as big of fans as we are of this stuff. There's literally been no evidence that the show is going down a bad path or that we should doubt the integrity of this show besides that there was a crappy Avengers show that this creative team had nothing to do with. That show honestly looked like an Avi Arad show. I don't mean disrespect to Avi Arad since he did a lot for Marvel and helping get it where he is, but sometimes he had a penchant for micro-managing and overdoing it with properties and it looked like he desperately wanted Avengers to be more toyetic and power rangers like. Spider-man Unlimited also turned out the way it did to be more toyetic and kid friendly (spider-man changing outfits and such). Avi Arad isn't managing or producing this show. I jokingly addressed this to Josh Fine and they aren't manipulating this show to have stupid power up/armor up transformation and what not so the show will be more toy friendly. So I mean, THERE YOU GO RIGHT THERE! The intent is to make a pure honest classic Avengers style show.

That's good. Marvel has been distancing themselves with Arad over the last few years, I believe. The fact that the writers/producers working on the show are fans is good, but sometimes that is only as good as execution, as every show has to modernize stuff, or make hard choices. I imagine the idea to make JARVIS a computer program rather than a loveable butler was itself a choice that had some internal arguments. Although I wouldn't be surprised if we had some episode where JARVIS makes some holographic image of "itself" and, surprise, it looks like a butler.

I thought considering the huge cast, JLU juggled the cast well enough. The 7 core characters usually still got most of the focus, but they spent time trying to introduce and build up a few B-List characters like Green Arrow, Black Canary, Question, and so on. There were some awkward moments and a few wasted episodes. While the Flash got one of the most memorable moments of the series, it came at the expense of countless unflattering ones. No, it wasn't perfect, but I thought it was fine. Many characters were not supposed to be more than background fodder.

AVENGERS: WGH would be wise to not over-indulge on so many characters, but also to realize that no show, ever, can have a full team of 7 members in every episode and flesh them all equally in 19-21 minutes. Each episode should focus on 2-4 members of the team and when you swap them around, eventually you flesh everyone. You don't want to have situations where characters are there to just stand there and not have lines, like some X-Men did in many WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN episodes.

I know they intend to make a good show. Until we see some previews, though, it's always hard to gauge. Blame a cynical market that "trust us" just isn't always enough on the Internet. :o

They are planning 52 episodes. Also right there plans how important they feel the show is that they want an epic length series.

It was a good idea to start production of 52 episodes right off the bat. As TSSM and even W&TXM shows, it can be a chore to restart production once it has stopped. So, it is smart to start doing 2 seasons at once and go from there, so that production may never end if Season 1 is "renewed". I'd argue it is an idea that should have been adopted ages ago, but better late than never. Besides, given how costly animation is, it is likely a strategy that wouldn't be used unless they had so much investment at the start that they could do so.

Well to me my critique is, Ultimate Avengers, those movies weren't really the Ultimates. There were some similar costumes and events, but overall those shows shared little content wise to the Ultimates comic. Characterizations were much more like the 616 counterparts. So from my perspective, while it was nice to have some edgy Avengers animation, it felt like a somewhat half-baked adaptation of the Ultimates while avoiding the truly shocking and controversial moments that Millar wrote. However, that's good on the other hand because . . . I freaking hate Ultimates. So I'm glad they didn't do most of that.

I thought ULTIMATE AVENGERS was maybe 50% faithful to the Ultimates #1-6, only not as offensive with the cussing and pop culture references. ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2 was where the "series" delved off course and really only used the Ultimate tagger for designs and whatnot. It was loosely inspired by Ultimates #7-13, but pretty much just because of the choice of villain(s). I do agree that they inserted a lot of 616 stuff into those films, or at least made "Ultimates" a little more like 616 than intended. For the time they were enjoyable and even now are fun, but I've seen better lately.

It's not just Yost but also guys like Josh Fine who have done a very good job of steering the ship creatively at Marvel Animation. Basically, the point is the crew does not pervert the style or integrity of the show to make it more toyetic and kid friendly. Yes these characters are marketed and merchandise but the crew sees the brands and the characters themselves as what's marketable and not making stupid armor variations and transformations to make the characters more appealing.

Yeah, Josh Fine is cool. He did an interview after PLANET HULK where he won me over with him stating that even he thought they had "run Hulk into the ground" with animated DTV's before "PLANET HULK", which is of course a new brilliant beast. Imagine, an insider involved saying they over-used Hulk in animation a bit! I was shocked. What next, someone saying they do that with Wolverine?

Honestly, the era of toy sales helping cartoons I think is long past. Kids don't really buy action figures like they did in the 80's and 90's; they're more invested in video games, and out-grow toys sooner, IMO. I'd almost argue at least as many adults buy action figures as kids these days. Shows have to sink or swim on their own, although merchandise of course always helps. At least with younger kids still buying toys, certain characters are almost always popular. Like Hulk or Iron Man, or Spider-Man, or Batman. They were selling BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES toys long after the show had been canceled, for instance.

I'll be more convinced when we see more general promotion for the show, rather than a leaked image now and then and an interview. You have to understand, an optimistic comic book fan is a fan who will always be disappointed. It is very easy to assume the worst of any project, secretly hoping to be proven wrong. Still, I will be very interested in seeing what Fine, Yost, and company bring here. I certainly am ready for a good AVENGERS show that is so awesome it puts JLU in the ground as a relic from the last decade. With DC animation seemingly focused on Dick Sprang Batman or (at best) Young Justice, now is the absolute perfect time for an AVENGERS show, not least with a movie coming. The low bar set in 1999 is an advantage because it really means there is no shadow to overcome, like every X-MEN show has to overcome, or every SPIDER-MAN show. I'm just hoping for a show that, regardless of the low bar, surpasses it and becomes one for the ages. The Avengers deserve nothing less. :up:

Zant

03-03-2010, 03:17 PM

http://marvel.toonzone.net/news.php?action=fullnews&id=504

Coming this fall ,at least something to watch before season 2 of wolverine

deathshead2

03-03-2010, 03:24 PM

Dang, Disney XD. I don't get that channel. Didn't get NickToons either. I'm kind of surprised it's on Disney XD. Last I heard Disney was canceling all the action shows(they all failed) and were planning to resent that channel as mostly comedy.

KBX

03-03-2010, 06:40 PM

This fall, Disney XD will also unveil a new animated series that looks to build on Disney's $4 billion acquisition of Marvel Entertainment -- "The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes," which is based on a clutch of iconic Marvel superheroes that includes Iron Man, Wolverine, Thor and the Incredible Hulk. The strip will set the table for a pair of Avengers-themed theatricals that are slated to hit multiplexes in summer 2011.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3ib786618f922dfc1dfadfb7afe7539cb7

Chewy

03-03-2010, 11:10 PM

Likely a misprint, they probably mean Captain America

TheVileOne

03-04-2010, 12:06 PM

Hollywood Reporter and Variety print ******** synopsis and stuff sometime because their writers don't check their facts and do their research.

Deathshead. You are wrong. Disney XD recently picked up Naruto Shippuden. They are also showing all the 1990's Marvel cartoon shows.

Iron Man and Wolverine and The X-men will probably stay on NickToons.

Superhero 101

03-04-2010, 12:48 PM

Wow this Avengers Series looks promising definitely going to be watching this

scatterax

03-04-2010, 02:57 PM

Wow this Avengers Series looks promising definitely going to be watching this

so is this gonna be like those clone wars shorts, or is it gonna be a half hour long show?

lixdexia

03-04-2010, 03:04 PM

so is this gonna be like those clone wars shorts, or is it gonna be a half hour long show?
the way i read it they're going to do 20 clone wars style shorts to set up the individual heroes immediately followed by a series of half hour long episodes for the team

Dread

03-04-2010, 04:48 PM

Here is an official release from Disney, as reported by our very own Super Hero Hype:

Disney Channels Worldwide announced its 2010-2011 programming for Disney XD yesterday which includes animated show "The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes." Here's the full description:

"The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" -- Further aligning the strength of Marvel's hugely popular characters and stories with the burgeoning Disney XD brand and global reach, an all-new animated series, "The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes," will debut in fall 2010 on Disney XD and DisneyXD.com. Beginning with the "Iron Man" and "Incredible Hulk" movies in 2008, the release of "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" follows Marvel's overall "Avengers Assemble" strategy introducing the greatest heroes in the Marvel Universe through various content platforms, including the upcoming feature films "Iron Man 2" in May of 2010, "Thor" in May of 2011 and "Captain America" in July of 2011, all building up to the Avengers theatrical film in 2012. Produced by Marvel Animation, the animated series features 52 episodes targeted at kids 9-14, starring Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, The Incredible Hulk, Giant Man and Wasp -- who form the Avengers, a team assembled when no single hero's powers can save the world. A 20-part "micro-series" that focuses on each hero's backstory will roll out in fall 2010 on Disney XD, immediately followed by the series premiere on Disney XD in the U.S. and, shortly thereafter, around the world. Disney XD, the single largest distributor of Marvel content around the world, currently showcases approximately 20 hours of Marvel series (including "The Spectacular Spider-Man," "Fantastic Four" and "Iron Man") each week.

No mention of Wolverine in the Avengers cast there. C'mon, he's not even been rumored to appear in this show. Why would he? He's already starring in his own X-Men show.

It does look like each hero will have some animated shorts broadcast to flesh out their origins for viewers, which isn't a bad promotional idea. I'd argue most people know the origins of Iron Man and Hulk, but it's still a fine idea. It looks like we may see this at the end of the year after all. We may even see some of this before any of W&TXM season 2.

I also did like, as an anxious TSSM fan, that Disney is still promoting the show in official announcements. Getting a third season has become a mess, but it does seem like Disney hasn't forgotten about the show or given up on it.

Silvermoth

03-04-2010, 06:01 PM

Ages 9-14. Hmm, I wonder if it will have an all kid cast and be set in a high school like Iron Man: Armoured Avengers.

Could be interesting though I guess.

lixdexia

03-04-2010, 06:28 PM

Ages 9-14. Hmm, I wonder if it will have an all kid cast and be set in a high school like Iron Man: Armoured Avengers.

Could be interesting though I guess.
i doubt it...most superhero shows target that demographic primarily.

Dread

03-04-2010, 09:17 PM

No. The cast are all adults for this show. Phil LaMarr, who plays a few characters in the show, gave a big interview where he stated the tone is "mostly serious" and that the show is inspired by the canon Avengers adventures, not Ultimates.

Sawyer

03-04-2010, 09:24 PM

3dman27

03-05-2010, 04:37 AM

Dread

03-05-2010, 10:22 PM

:up::up:

good to hear

I may as well repost a link to the interview with Phil LaMarr, from a month ago (roughly): http://www.newsarama.com/tv/Lamarr-Avengers-Animated-100208.html

And on an unrelated topic, with 3D films being the latest rage in Hollywood, I wonder how long it will be before some whiz figures on a 3D Man Movie...in 3D! :awesome:

CaptainStacy

03-06-2010, 09:50 AM

Dread

03-06-2010, 04:27 PM

"Lamarr: I don't know. I mean, in a lot of ways, Marvel is smart to take control of it, instead of having to get notes from some network, and have them nickle and dime them. 'We're going to make a great show, that we own, then we'll sell it to you if you like it."

I found that to be most encouraging...

To be fair, that is how quite a few of the Marvel shows have been made for the last few years. That is how WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN was made. Even SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN was in production and briefly considered to be a DVD exclusive series (like an "OAV" series for anime) before Kid's WB/CW 4kids became it's first network home.

The strategy is a good one, since Marvel is now a big enough commodity that they don't have to take as much guff from a network as they did on Fox Kids in the 90's.

TheVileOne

03-08-2010, 01:09 AM

Basically Marvel dictates the content of their shows not the networks. That unfortunately creates problems like when WaTXM got edited to shreds by the BBC.

This recent announcement though does kind of hammer home, Marvel's a subsidiary of Disney now. I mean, you can still argue this is an elephant in the room but we'll see.

Also I wish something was said about Spectacular already so if anything grieving fans like Dread can stop holding their breath :) .

Dread

03-08-2010, 03:01 AM

That would be nice, but apparently the word is that Disney/Marvel & Sony are ironing out some sort of deal over TSSM and Spider-Man in general. Last year, the story was Sony was set to give up their TV rights so they could retain more on movie profits, but that was before Sam Raimi's SM4 was canned, and Sony realized they'd have to wait at least a year longer than scheduled before getting another Spidey film out. As I stated in another forum, when B:TAS moved from Fox Kids to Kid's WB, fans had to wait almost two full years before seeing new episodes. It likely was due to WB having to iron out stuff with Fox and so on. TSSM hasn't reached that long a wait yet. Technically, new episodes debuted on DISNEY XD not even 6 months ago.

Disney does own Marvel outright; they paid over $4 billion for 'em after all.

But, yeah, Marvel creates the shows and then hands them to networks as is. Part of being in bed with Disney, though, is they at least have DISNEY XD as a lock for shows now (beyond the shows not on Cartoon Network, or NickToons). That makes it easier to, say, produce 52 episodes of A:EMH out of the gate. :D

TheVileOne

03-08-2010, 03:33 AM

It's not exactly out of the gate. The 52 episodes that were ordered are not being shown all together. They will be separated into two seasons as far as I know.

I'm just happy to hear we don't have to wait until 2011. Hopefully that means we'll see the pilot at SDCC this year. And that means more interviews!

Dread

03-11-2010, 06:39 PM

I know, but I meant production won't end after season 1, it will be ongoing. Perhaps because sometimes it can take a while for production to start up again like it stops. Even WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN's second season saw delay.

Bit of old news, but Vanessa Marshall says she'll have a reoccurring role in AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES:

http://www.newsarama.com/common/media/video/player.php?aid=33681

TheVileOne

03-14-2010, 12:03 AM

My guess she's either playing Wasp or Scarlet Witch.

Also for whatever reason there's no IMDB section for this series yet. Even though we know a good chunk of the cast and crew at this point.

Dread

03-20-2010, 05:39 PM

My guess she's either playing Wasp or Scarlet Witch.

Also for whatever reason there's no IMDB section for this series yet. Even though we know a good chunk of the cast and crew at this point.

IMDB isn't always reliable. They kept casting Hawkeye in ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2 for the longest time. :p

TheVileOne

04-15-2010, 02:10 PM

It's worth bringing up right now. With the recent canceling spree of animated shows post-Disney buyout, is Earth's Mightiest Heroes safe at all right now?

I'm curious if the recent buyout or I dunno some new changes had anything to do with both X-men and Spectacular going away.

So I'm just wondering, is Earth's Mightiest Heroes safe at the moment? I imagine since probably a good deal of production work has been done it will be released on Disney XD, but will it still get the two seasons and all 52 episodes or will it get dropped and replaced with another series later on?

Honestly this feels a lot like 1998 when Silver Surfer was canceled. The Captain America 1990's series got canned. And then new shows came back in Spidey Unlimited and United We Stand for Avengers.

Now just to say the circumstances are much different now and I have the utmost confidence that Earth's Mightiest Heroes if it still comes out as planned will be great, but some of the new changes that are going on now are just somewhat concerning.

The new Spider-man show will be Ultimate Spider-man. And I mean, essentially a sort of MARVEL TEAM-UP/Spider-man show definitely seems interesting. From the promo release it seems like a sort of BRAVE AND THE BOLD type of series except with Spider-man instead of Batman.

But with the Disney buyout we all wondered what would be happening with the shows and well it just seems like turn of the decade shows we had and liked are going away and almost feels like they are wiping the slate clean and starting over again.

So I hope all will be well with EMH and we will still get the Thor series as well.

KBX

04-15-2010, 04:18 PM

Its disappointing, Marvel finally seemed to get going on their animation getting two very good shows in SSM and WATXM. I think the avengers is pretty safe though. I don't think Disney would have made an annoucement if they weren't planning on this series happening.

Was this show announced pre-Disney takeover?

TheVileOne

04-15-2010, 04:33 PM

Yes I think it was announced in like 2008. We saw the first promo or trailer around then.

It was recently announced to be on Disney XD after the Marvel/Disney buyout was completed.

Dread

04-15-2010, 09:28 PM

I think AVENGERS is the one cartoon Disney wants in promotion now. Weren't they working on 52 episodes post haste?

TheVileOne

04-16-2010, 01:02 AM

Yeah, but they were doing production on that before the Disney buyout as well.

Disney did announce the show as being on Disney XD so there was that broadcasting deal and the show appears to be safe for now.

But man, my whole world is shattered right now as far as cartoons go :( . This is even worse than when we lost MYP Masters of the Universe.

KBX

04-16-2010, 02:03 AM

It was a 1-2 punch KO punch. Just wait a couple more months than hopefully Avengers: EMH will quench your animation desire. That is what I am hoping for, though the Brave an the Bold is a fun show!

We get a set date for this shows premiere yet?

TheVileOne

04-17-2010, 02:19 AM

KBX, I think I read on Marvel Animation Age or Toon Zone that it would be Fall 2010 on Disney XD, but that might not be accurate.

Also I forget if this was already announced or not, but I spoke with Jennifer Hale at Anaheim Comic Con today and she said she was play Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel in the series.

Man, the amount of characters they are bringing in for this show is huge.

KBX

04-17-2010, 05:56 PM

I just read the thr.com article on it, it did say this fall. Why wouldn't that be accurate, you think they might delay this show as well? I hope not

Nice, Im all for focusing on the main 7 members of the Avengers, but any character from the Marvel universe that shows up, I am all for it. The more the better in my eyes, from Luke to Black Panther to even Wolverine.

You got an estimate? 20? 30? sweet!

TheVileOne

04-18-2010, 03:11 AM

KBX, I think the reason why is because they originally said this show would drop in 2011. Then I heard the more recent announcement of Fall 2010 which I am going with for now.

But these shows tend to get delayed sometimes. Iron Man anime was set for a spring 2010 release now it's I think tentatively set for the fall.

Also, confirmed from Tom Kane today that he's returning as Ultron.

KBX

04-18-2010, 05:25 PM

TheVileOne

04-19-2010, 02:50 AM

Umm . . . holy crap!

I definitely like the look of Iron Man's armor in these images. It looks a little tweaked from the original promo and trailer.

Wow look at that, Red Skull, Baron Strucker, Hydra, Grim Reaper, ARNIM ZOLA, and Lady Viper! :)

I like that the character designs are based off the more classic 616 costumes.

KBX

04-19-2010, 03:22 PM

Im not a big supporter either way, just as long the costumes look decent, Im good. The only one I think that has to grow on me is Wasp.

"The thing that's really exciting about the Avengers series, especially for me, is the fact that you'll be seeing stories that actually were developed within the last 10 years of Marvel," said Quesada. "The sort of new Marvel era. So you'll see some familiar, familiar stories and some characters that you've never seen animated before that really have become sort of star characters in the Marvel Universe in the last 10 years."
"Really this is our chance to do a classic Avengers series and bring to life many of the stories from the entire Avengers history that you might be familiar with to update them, to explore everything from the early Stan Lee days all the way up to the present day in the comics," added Fine.

http://tv.ign.com/articles/108/1084450p1.html

Secret Invasion, Civil War, House of M, World War Hulk? lol, wonder what story they will get into first...

Dread

04-20-2010, 03:03 AM

After the fate of WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN was sealed, I was somewhat curious what would befall this show. But considering the film franchise is moving towards the Avengers in 2012, I imagine both Marvel Animation and Disney are focusing on this. This is why production is ramping up, and why 52 episodes are being produced post haste.

The images look promising. The characters are stylized, and I imagine some will whine that it looks too much like "Bruce Timm Lite", but I am fine with it. In fact the only design I really have quibbles about is Iron Man, and merely his mouth piece. It makes him look like he has an awkward expression all the time. It seems only IRON MAN Season 2 from 1996 figured to just leave it out. Beyond that, though, it all looks peachy. I have to admit it does seem a bit odd to see the Hulk standing and posing like a super-hero, though. He usually is out to smash all the heroes, and it looks like he's just part of the team. I wonder how this will play out. Maybe the Hulk turns out to be reasonable, but still tempermental? Like the Thing?

I think Captain America really looks great. I think I see some Jack Kirby influence there, especially with his bulk and the black highlights on the mask. Looks solid.

Hawkeye looks awesome, especially in purple. This is the first time since the 90's that we've gotten to see him in his original outfit, or even at all. Black Widow looks cool, too. I like how the villains look; Loki, Ultron, Kang (the most awkward of Kirby designs, IMO), Red Skull, Grim Reaper, Arnim Zola, Madame Hydra, even Doughboy! Now that's an obscure villain. Some of these characters haven't seen animation since AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND in 1999, which was rubbish. It is certainly good to see them again in something that aims to be decent (at worst).

Part of me isn't thrilled to see Marvel pushing stuff like House of M, Civil War or Secret Invasion stories within the first 26-52 episodes of AVENGERS: EMH, but we'll see how it goes. JUSTICE LEAGUE was able to mix new and old stories in a fairly short amount of time. Will this be the show that puts JLU to bed after 4-5 years on the top (at least of the team hero heap)? I'm certainly excited to see it try.

Of course, without TSSM and W&TXM, this is really the only cartoon show from Marvel to get excited about (if you're over seven, that is).

Dread

04-20-2010, 03:03 AM

After the fate of WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN was sealed, I was somewhat curious what would befall this show. But considering the film franchise is moving towards the Avengers in 2012, I imagine both Marvel Animation and Disney are focusing on this. This is why production is ramping up, and why 52 episodes are being produced post haste.

The images look promising. The characters are stylized, and I imagine some will whine that it looks too much like "Bruce Timm Lite", but I am fine with it. In fact the only design I really have quibbles about is Iron Man, and merely his mouth piece. It makes him look like he has an awkward expression all the time. It seems only IRON MAN Season 2 from 1996 figured to just leave it out. Beyond that, though, it all looks peachy. I have to admit it does seem a bit odd to see the Hulk standing and posing like a super-hero, though. He usually is out to smash all the heroes, and it looks like he's just part of the team. I wonder how this will play out. Maybe the Hulk turns out to be reasonable, but still tempermental? Like the Thing?

I think Captain America really looks great. I think I see some Jack Kirby influence there, especially with his bulk and the black highlights on the mask. Looks solid.

Hawkeye looks awesome, especially in purple. This is the first time since the 90's that we've gotten to see him in his original outfit, or even at all. Black Widow looks cool, too. I like how the villains look; Loki, Ultron, Kang (the most awkward of Kirby designs, IMO), Red Skull, Grim Reaper, Arnim Zola, Madame Hydra, even Doughboy! Now that's an obscure villain. Some of these characters haven't seen animation since AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND in 1999, which was rubbish. It is certainly good to see them again in something that aims to be decent (at worst). It seems HYDRA will be a means to assemble a slew of villains as well as stock cartoon robots, akin to HIVE from TEEN TITANS.

Part of me isn't thrilled to see Marvel pushing stuff like House of M, Civil War or Secret Invasion stories within the first 26-52 episodes of AVENGERS: EMH, but we'll see how it goes. JUSTICE LEAGUE was able to mix new and old stories in a fairly short amount of time. Will this be the show that puts JLU to bed after 4-5 years on the top (at least of the team hero heap)? I'm certainly excited to see it try.

Of course, without TSSM and W&TXM, this is really the only cartoon show from Marvel to get excited about (if you're over seven, that is). Josh Fine called it, "the Avengers show you have been waiting your whole life for". The Avengers is certainly a franchise, like Justice League, that only hits the TV if you are lucky once a decade. It has been roughly 11 years since the last stab on TV, and the producers for that show clearly cared more about toys than quality. It's about time that the Avengers have the ball in their court and all the focus on them. I have no doubt in my mind that this will be good, the question is merely "good", or will it become great, legendary stuff? At the very least, with 52 episodes (as opposed to 13-26), it will really have more room to breathe, to sink or swim, than any cartoon Marvel has released since 2003.

Compi716

04-20-2010, 10:56 AM

KBX

04-20-2010, 05:52 PM

Part of me isn't thrilled to see Marvel pushing stuff like House of M, Civil War or Secret Invasion stories within the first 26-52 episodes of AVENGERS: EMH, but we'll see how it goes. JUSTICE LEAGUE was able to mix new and old stories in a fairly short amount of time. Will this be the show that puts JLU to bed after 4-5 years on the top (at least of the team hero heap)? I'm certainly excited to see it try.

This decade needs a 65+ episode comic animated show, why not this be the one? Im a big JLU fan and I will have no problem if Avengers:EMH is as good or better. I really don't see Civil War or House of M being a big part of the show, not till after the first 26 episodes as you said. So you can enjoy the first 26 with no problem them!

Now weren't there suppose to be some sort of mini stories to go along with this? To flush out some of the minor characters so the show doesn't have to waist time in do so?

Dread

04-23-2010, 08:58 PM

Did they remove the black belt and black at the tip of the gloves that was seen on Cap in the original teaser?

Regardless, I think this looks like it could be a damn fine show. I'd prefer a focus on some of the more classic stories (or, if it's modern stuff, than Busiek/Perez era stuff).

If they did, I didn't notice. I think all of the characters look fine. I am a little iffy on Wasp, but she looks as one would expect, just not quite like a fashionista turned super heroine. And Iron Man's mouth piece always makes him look a bit dumb-founded, but that's hardly the first time I have seen it. It all looks peachy.

I think we may get a mix of classic and modern stories, or stories that are loosely inspired by the classics but updated. Many of the "classic" stories are 20-40 years old and if you try to tell them word for word, you end up with cheesier stuff. For example, the Wrecking Crew and Absorbing Man were all empowered by Loki to fight Thor (and the Avengers) and that bit can remain the same, but the script can be more unique on the details.

This decade needs a 65+ episode comic animated show, why not this be the one? Im a big JLU fan and I will have no problem if Avengers:EMH is as good or better. I really don't see Civil War or House of M being a big part of the show, not till after the first 26 episodes as you said. So you can enjoy the first 26 with no problem them!

Now weren't there suppose to be some sort of mini stories to go along with this? To flush out some of the minor characters so the show doesn't have to waist time in do so?

Let's not jump the gun. This will only be the second Marvel cartoon to reach 52 episodes since X-MEN EVOLUTION ended in 2003. And even I may be cautious until all 52 episodes air. No Marvel cartoon has lasted beyond 26 episodes in 7 years. So the fact alone that we seem to be getting 52 episodes as a lock, as well as two seasons that are knee deep in production now is something to appreciate.

JLU was a great show but there was a lot to learn from it, and the Avengers are just as good characters as they are, with far cooler villains by and large. If it mixes top acting with good scripts and, what HAS to be the best paced action cartoon on TV, then this could be Marvel's best team show since the X-MEN ended in 1998.

Silver Knight

04-25-2010, 04:26 AM

Is this still coming out this year?

KBX

04-26-2010, 04:48 PM

Let's not jump the gun. This will only be the second Marvel cartoon to reach 52 episodes since X-MEN EVOLUTION ended in 2003. And even I may be cautious until all 52 episodes air. No Marvel cartoon has lasted beyond 26 episodes in 7 years. So the fact alone that we seem to be getting 52 episodes as a lock, as well as two seasons that are knee deep in production now is something to appreciate.

JLU was a great show but there was a lot to learn from it, and the Avengers are just as good characters as they are, with far cooler villains by and large. If it mixes top acting with good scripts and, what HAS to be the best paced action cartoon on TV, then this could be Marvel's best team show since the X-MEN ended in 1998.

Im not really jumping the gun, just really optimistic of the potiental of the series. Its slated to have 2 seasons of 26 episodes. I know WATXM were suppose to get that, but never did. Im sure the Disney/Marvel merger had a lot to do with it. So we will see how it goes.

JLU had some good villains in my eyes. Darkseid, Luthor, Grodd are were interesting. Now Im not that big on the Avengers villains other than the obvious ones like Ultron, Red Skull or Loki, but ill take your word on it. Looking forward to Kang and Hydra...

Is this still coming out this year?

Yes, as of right now in coming in the fall...

Silver Knight

04-27-2010, 01:31 AM

Thanks, im surprised we have yet to see a teaser of the show and only 2 or so pics floating around the web.

lixdexia

04-27-2010, 01:55 AM

Thanks, im surprised we have yet to see a teaser of the show and only 2 or so pics floating around the web.
there's a trailer, a handful of pictures, and some character designs floating around. you just have to look for them

Silver Knight

04-27-2010, 12:33 PM

there's a trailer, a handful of pictures, and some character designs floating around. you just have to look for them

Care to show me dude?

EDIT - Nevermind I found the trailer just need the character posters now.

Sawyer

05-02-2010, 10:42 PM

If they did, I didn't notice. I think all of the characters look fine. I am a little iffy on Wasp, but she looks as one would expect, just not quite like a fashionista turned super heroine. And Iron Man's mouth piece always makes him look a bit dumb-founded, but that's hardly the first time I have seen it. It all looks peachy.

I think we may get a mix of classic and modern stories, or stories that are loosely inspired by the classics but updated. Many of the "classic" stories are 20-40 years old and if you try to tell them word for word, you end up with cheesier stuff. For example, the Wrecking Crew and Absorbing Man were all empowered by Loki to fight Thor (and the Avengers) and that bit can remain the same, but the script can be more unique on the details.

Let's not jump the gun. This will only be the second Marvel cartoon to reach 52 episodes since X-MEN EVOLUTION ended in 2003. And even I may be cautious until all 52 episodes air. No Marvel cartoon has lasted beyond 26 episodes in 7 years. So the fact alone that we seem to be getting 52 episodes as a lock, as well as two seasons that are knee deep in production now is something to appreciate.

JLU was a great show but there was a lot to learn from it, and the Avengers are just as good characters as they are, with far cooler villains by and large. If it mixes top acting with good scripts and, what HAS to be the best paced action cartoon on TV, then this could be Marvel's best team show since the X-MEN ended in 1998.

Eh. I much prefer Justice League villains than Avengers villains.

Silver Knight

05-03-2010, 12:06 AM

So this will come out in October? I think we will see some figures at SD-CC.

KBX

05-04-2010, 01:27 AM

Don't know, maybe September in the UK...

Silver Knight

05-04-2010, 02:02 AM

4 months. Nice.

Silver Knight

05-06-2010, 11:26 PM

Anyone else think we will see something at SD-CC?

KBX

05-07-2010, 12:36 AM

Its a safe bet. Hell maybe they will release another trailer a little sooner....

lixdexia

05-07-2010, 12:39 AM

i hope they're still planning on doing those solo shorts to set the series up. that sounded intresting

Silver Knight

05-07-2010, 12:41 AM

Care to share more info? Never heard about that.

KBX

05-12-2010, 06:28 PM

I think there were suppose to be some sort of cartoon short for about 15 characters to help introduce these lesser Avenger characters.

I don't know if they are still going through with it, though if it does happen, I will be looking forward to it.

Silver Knight

05-12-2010, 07:43 PM

That should be cool. I also think we will be getting figures based on this cartoon.

TheVileOne

05-17-2010, 02:10 AM

Dread, Hawkeye was on the Superhero Squad show repeatedly, his costume was pretty much his classic purple costume.

Silver Knight

05-17-2010, 04:41 AM

Anything new guys?

Blitzkrieg Bop

05-24-2010, 01:12 PM

Just found out about this today. Trailer looks pretty cool.

Longshot777

05-25-2010, 11:57 AM

What channel will this be on?

deathshead2

05-25-2010, 12:39 PM

What channel will this be on?
A year ago it wouldv'e been Nicktoons, now, most likely Disney XD. Since Disney has been taking back the Marvel toons from Nick, and Disney SD is their boy channel, with the normal Disney channel being the tween and girls channel.

Silver Knight

05-26-2010, 01:31 AM

Do you think we will see more at SD-CC?

Blitzkrieg Bop

05-26-2010, 10:59 AM

Probably.

TheCorpulent1

05-26-2010, 11:30 AM

Did not know they had pics of this circulating already. Looks very faithful to the comics. Thor looks a bit silly--more like a caricature of the big, burly superhero than I would like--and the Wasp just looks weird and really young, but overall it's good. I'm looking forward to it. Is there a premiere date set for it yet?

deathshead2

05-26-2010, 11:37 AM

Iron_Stark

05-26-2010, 02:00 PM

Yeah I can understand a delay. Fall 2010 or even beginning of 2011 this show will be out soon which is what I am looking forward to.

some pics...

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1004/18/avengers3.jpg
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1004/18/avengers2.jpg

more pics of Widow, Ultron, Hawkeye, Loki and some info on the link...

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1004/18/marvelanimation.htm

Holy crap, I just now saw these.

I was hoping the Hulk would be a part of the team, and these pics pretty much confirm it.

Hopefully he stays on as a full member for as long as the show goes on.

TheCorpulent1

05-26-2010, 02:07 PM

deathshead2

05-26-2010, 03:19 PM

Kind of curious to see how that'll work if he does stick around.

Is it going to stay a founders-only team for the cartoon? I don't see Cap in any group pics. He may not be a founder, but he should definitely be a part of the team. I don't want to see Iron Man leading. :o
They said the show takes stories from the comic. I'm going to guess in the first few episodes they fight Loki, and then an episode or two later find frozen in ice Cap.

Jordacar

05-26-2010, 03:26 PM

I want so badly to write for this show. My dream job, seriously.

TheCorpulent1

05-26-2010, 03:33 PM

They said the show takes stories from the comic. I'm going to guess in the first few episodes they fight Loki, and then an episode or two later find frozen in ice Cap.
I'd have them fight Loki in the first episode, and then have Cap join the team in the second episode. Cap's an important part of the Avengers. I don't want him to be portrayed as a founder in the cartoon since he wasn't one in the comics, but he should definitely be there as soon as possible.

Blitzkrieg Bop

05-26-2010, 03:54 PM

Wolverine will be the leader. :o

TheCorpulent1

05-26-2010, 03:59 PM

:facepalm:

Iron_Stark

05-26-2010, 04:10 PM

Kind of curious to see how that'll work if he does stick around.

Is it going to stay a founders-only team for the cartoon? I don't see Cap in any group pics. He may not be a founder, but he should definitely be a part of the team. I don't want to see Iron Man leading. :o

Have him like the Super Hero Squad cartoon, but in a more mature way.

Or how Bill Bixby's Banner teamed up with Thor and DD. Have the Hulk know the difference between who's good and who's evil and not make him a mindless buffoon that beats up on anyone that's near him.

KBX

05-26-2010, 06:20 PM

Im sure the first 13 or so episodes, they will focus on the main founding members. After that its anyone's guess who will show up. And from what I have been reading a lot of heroes will show up.

Oh and I do think Iron man is the leader of this team...

DawnWarrior

05-26-2010, 08:16 PM

^Personally, I would rather see the first 5 or 6 episodes focused on the founders rather than 13. Then they have a recruitment drive and bring in Hawkeye and others. That would made for a tighter season.

TheCorpulent1

05-27-2010, 10:28 AM

Dread

05-27-2010, 12:52 PM

Captain America will definitely be part of the regular team, but it seems the Hulk likely will too, for a while. The initial teaser hinted that Iron Man would act as the leader. To be fair, he often used to before Cap was fully settled into that role.

TheCorpulent1

05-27-2010, 01:06 PM

He certainly tried to. That's the main reason the Hulk left in the second issue. :oldrazz:

Anyway, I guess I can stand Iron Man as the leader for a while. Steve better settle into that role pretty soon after he starts appearing regularly, though. This cartoon looks to be going for a very iconic portrayal of the Avengers, and the iconic Avengers leader is Captain America, period. That's just the way things work.

Dread

05-27-2010, 02:43 PM

The cartoon is trying to provide an iconic Avengers cartoon (which isn't hard after 1999's AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND abomination), but there does seem to be some sense of "market reality" there. The Hulk is there because he is well known and popular; far more popular than Giant Man or Wasp will ever be. And Iron Man is depicted as the leader because his movie franchise is the top of the heap of Marvel Studio's right now. That said, having Cap earn his leadership title rather than simply be handed it the minute he sits up out of an ice block will probably be a nice subplot for a few episodes. After all, some could argue that considering Thor has the most experience, he should be the leader. :p

What I've seen of the show looks good so far.

TheCorpulent1

05-27-2010, 03:11 PM

Nah, Thor is content to just smash the s*** out of things as necessary. He's never really wanted to lead the Avengers, in my experience. It's probably a lot more fun to just show up and kick people's asses than it is to lead.

Anyway, depending on how they portray Iron Man, his shoddy leadership could be an interesting subplot. I mean, he kind of ran the West Coast Avengers into the ground. Hawkeye did a much better job leading that team.

Jordacar

05-27-2010, 03:25 PM

Yeah, I'm really hoping they make something interesting of the leadership role. Iron Man seems like the obvious choice, being the modern smart guy, but he's also has a lot of personal issues. Cap, despite being time displaced, is second-to-none when it comes to winning a desperate battle.

Blitzkrieg Bop

05-27-2010, 03:33 PM

I think Captain America is the only one who could really rally all those diverse personalities together and act as a team to their fullest potential.

KBX

05-27-2010, 05:09 PM

Captain America leading, Iron man leading, hell I don't care if Luke Cage is leading, as long as the show is good, that is all that matters. Hulk leading the team would be interesting, but of course won't happen, lol.

KBX

05-27-2010, 05:10 PM

Captain America, Iron Man, hell I don't care if Luke Cage is leading, all that matters is whether this show will be good or not. Personally I would like to see what Hulk can do as the leader, lol.

Silver Knight

05-27-2010, 11:15 PM

I hope we see or hear something new soon.

Superhero 101

06-30-2010, 11:49 AM

Is this series coming out this fall or next? Because Loeb said its coming out this fall

Silver Knight

06-30-2010, 12:43 PM

I think think its coming this fall.

Superhero 101

06-30-2010, 09:58 PM

Oh That's great news lets just hope it doesn't get cancelled like Spidey and Wolvie

Spidey_62

06-30-2010, 10:51 PM

At least it's already got 52 episodes guaranteed.

Jordacar

07-01-2010, 12:03 AM

Just like Wolvie's second season was guaranteed... :cmad:

Spidey_62

07-01-2010, 12:23 AM

Just like Wolvie's second season was guaranteed... :cmad:
Eh, good point. Hopefully with Marvel's new TV wing and Disney backing them they're gonna finally get their stuff together.

KBX

07-01-2010, 05:54 PM

Well both those shows were pre-Disney so I see why Disney didn't want to renew them. Though I don't know if Avengers started their production before the Disney/Merger went through. But all signs point to Disney backing this show.

Silver Knight

07-02-2010, 02:58 AM

Anyone think we will see something at Comic-Con?

KBX

07-05-2010, 08:59 AM

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1007/04/blackpanther.jpg

Silver Knight

07-05-2010, 09:46 AM

Awesome pic! Where did you find that?

KBX

07-07-2010, 01:22 AM

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1007/04/index.htm

Although not appearing in the first promotional image, Black Panther will appear early in the show. The character was featured in the video that Marvel showed at C2E2 in Chicago.

* Nick Fury will also appear in the show. * "Every single episode is packed with action and high stakes," said Marvel Animation's Josh Fine of Avengers.

TheCorpulent1

07-07-2010, 07:48 AM

I'm happy to have Fury involved and all, but I was kind of hoping this version of the Avengers wouldn't follow the movies'/Ultimate's SHIELD-sponsored team idea.

Silver Knight

07-08-2010, 12:49 AM

I cant wait to see something new at SD-CC.

Dread

07-08-2010, 10:27 PM

SHIELD was involved with the classical Avengers. I imagine the idea of SHIELD basically being the U.N. on steroids has long since been shuffled in favor of them seeming to be a U.S. agency on steroids, which is an idea that has seemed to stick universally for years. To be fair, it was usually based in the U.S. Iron Man used to supply them with technology in 616 so it all works out.

Black Panther looks cool.

Fans should understand, that while this show will probably be closer to 616 continuity than Ultimate, some newer ideas or details or whatnot will be part of the show. I mean, the Bruce Timm line of DC animation did no end of revisions to DC characters, starting as early as in BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES. If anything, that series was HAILED for picking and choosing bits from various sources (comics, movies, even at times TV shows) to create a definitive version of every character. That trend only continued in JUSTICE LEAGUE and no one really complains about how the founders were so different, or how you had then-current incarnations or translations of characters alongside others that seemed to be as they were in the Silver Age. If anything, some of those changes helped characters like John Stewart and Hawkgirl become more well known.

I'm merely stating this because sometimes we fans nitpick things for the silliest of reasons. Josh Fine, Chris Yost and company seem to be putting everything into this show. They appear to really, REALLY want it to be good and epic this time. It's Marvel's best chance at a JUSTICE LEAGUE type show, and hopefully better; both JL and JLU usually needed at least a season in the wash before getting good.

TheCorpulent1

07-09-2010, 09:03 AM

I don't know what Iron Man supplying SHIELD with technology--which he did from way back in their origin story--has to do with SHIELD being a UN or a US agency. The US is a major part of the UN, too. And SHIELD may have interacted with the Avengers from time to time, but the Avengers were never a "SHIELD team" until the Ultimate line came along and the movies glommed onto that origin. I still much prefer the "heroes banding together for a common purpose" origin rather than "heroes banding together 'cause the government damn well tells them to" one, personally.

Also, batting Yost's name around doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Dude hasn't made a single good cartoon for Marvel yet, as far as I'm concerned, either in the DTV movie arena or on TV. If anything, this cartoon will probably have to succeed in spite of him.

Dread

07-09-2010, 09:52 PM

Some of Yost's solo comic book work that I have read wasn't bad, such as his SECRET INVASION Young Avengers/Runaways mini, or an X-Men series that was a prelude to War Of Kings. He seems to know continuity fairly well and I imagined him as the brains to Craig Kyle's brawn. He'll be a story editor I believe, which means he won't write every episode himself anyway. The thing is that Marvel really never has had a version of Bruce Timm, so you have to take them from where you can get 'em.

Besides, I didn't mind HULK VS. Yeah, it stunk that Thor got schooled, but as a story itself I was entertained. Chris Yost also wrote many episodes of the 2k3 TMNT, and that show was always consistently good until the 6th season.

It's been a while since the production team was stated beyond Yost and one of the directors from TEEN TITANS, which had it's moments. The voice cast assembled from an interview that Phil LaMarr gave to Newsarama a year ago is pretty damned stellar.

The Avengers have operated with government clearance before in 616. That was usually why Henry Gyrich and no end of government contacts were assigned to the team. The fact of the matter is in 2010, there is really little way the government would allow a team of superheroes to assemble without some sort of authority or clearance. This isn't DC. Marvel humans not only mistrust their heroes, they practically hate them and assume the worst of them. You couldn't simply have the Justice League assemble in Marville and operate without a messload of government contacts and authority for ages without world war three starting.

There is a part of me who believes that producers see that SHIELD connection as making the Avengers seem like a different superhero team than the Justice League (a bunch of solo vigilantes/demi-gods who unite and act on their own authority who are rarely questioned because they save the day a lot) or the Fantastic Four (who are freelance as well). Now, we really don't know how this series will work so there isn't a guarantee that these Avengers will be like the Ultimates and assemble because the government assembles them. We've been told that this series does lift things from the original comics when it can so for all we know they could just randomly assemble like in the comics to fight Loki and go from there.

I suppose ideally SHIELD could be seen as NATO, a sort of international peace keeping mission, but alternate media seems to like simplicity and SHIELD as "American CIA on 'roids" basically seems to be simple enough for people to make films or TV shows.

My point is that if this show is bad, these are the things we'll cite as People's Evidence. But if it turns out to be great, these are the things that fans should let go of, just like the many details of JLU that everyone lets go and no one whined about when it was on.

TheCorpulent1

07-10-2010, 10:51 AM

You're not listening, Dreadykins. I know the Avengers have worked with the government. But they were not formed by the government until the Ultimate line came along. I really couldn't care less how plausible or implausible a superhero team forming without government intervention is in 2010, 2090, 378 BC, or any other period, either; they did form without government intervention initially, I like the independence that gives them, and it's no more implausible than a living god walking the earth or a man emerging from an iceberg in perfect health after 50 years.

The government's not solely a battering ram, either. I think it's very reasonable that they could see this new team form without their say-so and simply decide to deputize them rather than fight them because--let's face it--the government, without already having another Avengers-esque team at their beck and call, couldn't do a damned thing to stop the Avengers from operating with or without their approval. The government knows when to pick its battles. The Avengers, for their part, willingly worked with SHIELD and Gyrich and various others in the government providing oversight in order to foster a spirit of cooperation rather than adversity in the comics, too. I know the Marvel universe has become a rather cynical place lately, but there's no reason the Avengers and the government couldn't simply work together because it's the most expedient and sensible option.

If the show is good, I'm sure I'll be able to overlook the SHIELD thing. I may even be able to overlook Iron Man being the leader, if indeed he stays the leader after Cap comes in. But those little things start to add up sooner or later, and like I said, Yost's name as the main creative force behind the series already doesn't fill me with too much confidence.

But I'm sure we'll get a great Avengers cartoon someday. If this one isn't it, I'm content to keep waiting.

Dread

07-10-2010, 04:00 PM

Frankly, it's beyond incompetent that it has taken THIS LONG to get a good Avengers show. 1999's "AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND" was an abomination of a failure. It was so bad it made "SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED" look good, because at least that tried something different - stupid, but different. "A:UTS" played it safe and catered to every network and action figure executive and was a piece of crap. It's taken ten to eleven years and another string of Spider-Man and X-Men shows (two each) and even a Fantastic Four show and nearly a dozen animated DVD's before Marvel Animation finally decided to try to get on that horse again. The fact that WB had "JUSTICE LEAGUE" was probably a final embarrassment and I wouldn't be surprised if the order was given to wait until that finished, so the audience wouldn't have to compete or compare with it.

If "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES" isn't as good as some of the occasional voice actors or insiders are saying it is, I will be beyond irritated. Marvel as a comic book company is a company that is very much like a public school; is more than willing to embrace mediocrity or spend extra attention on the below average, but sometimes is at a loss with what to do with the truly brilliant. I would hate if that could also be said of their animation division. I'm more willing to cut Yost a chance than you. He's done some good work in my eyes. Part of me likes to think that Craig Kyle sometimes has so much energy that he is willing to sacrifice good sense for an explosion, but I don't get that vibe from Yost. I've mostly enjoyed the Marvel DTV's overall, aside for "INVINCIBLE IRON MAN" and "NEXT AVENGERS". If I had to say anything about the non-TSSM era of Marvel animation, it is that it always has it's moments. X-MEN EVOLUTION turned from a good to great show as it went along. Everything since has tanked in 26 episodes, but there always are parts that are great. The trick has been assembling them into a whole for a long period of time. In sports, they'd call it, "playing a complete game". To me, "X-MEN EVOLUTION" was the last Marvel cartoon that at least played a complete game.

TSSM was tied in with Sony, but also, like I said, it was a brilliant show, so neither Marvel or Disney knew what to do with it.

Still, this will be the first chance to see Josh Fine and Chris Yost work on a show without Kyle's influence, for better or worse. I imagine there is INCREDIBLE pressure on them from Marvel & Disney that this show cannot be a failure. They are investing in 52 episodes right off the bat and I imagine a set block on DISNEY XD will be enshrined to it. The show cannot be a bust. At least corporately.

As for the SHIELD thing, I suppose I accept it better because I'm more of a Marvel Zombie than a DC fan, and I'm more of a cynic than an optimist. There is a difference between accepting a leap of faith in terms of powers or origins versus accepting changes in human nature. I could never buy that a government would be perfectly happy or willing to accept a team of demi-gods who pledge loyalty to no authority building a satellite tower in the middle of space and stepping on the toes of "official authorities" like the police or the military to deal with threats. I would always roll my eyes when, say, a medic would treat Batman or Flash during some sort of alien attack and not try to unmask them, or demand it to be treated. In the real world people would rather die in a fire than compromise with anyone they saw as more powerful. Superman had just ended his own show being brainwashed by Darkseid and trashing much of Metropolis in his name, and then all of a sudden he's giving speeches at the U.N. and everyone on the globe trusts him to run a superhero team? Wonder Woman's a day from that Amazon Island and no one sees her as an unknown? And isn't Batman often considered just as nuts as the crooks he chases to the average Gotham citizen (and nearly half the cops as well)? But it isn't until about 3 seasons in that the government of DCU Animated earth decides, hey, that Justice League is a power that we should at least try to check on. While I often thought that Marvel's citizens were blindly distrusting and suspicious of their heroes to the point of having a species wide death wish, I often found DC's citizens to be blindly loyal and forgiving to anyone with their underoos over their pants and an S on their chest, in a world where police officers and firemen are taken for granted or sometimes called lazy or greedy, or are almost never given the benefit of the doubt if they need it. We live in a world where diplomats, agencies, Congress, even the entire world would rather it all end in a ball of flame than dare compromise or make benefits of the doubt.

After all, Tony Stark was always connected to government contracts and agencies like SHIELD at the start of his career, so the idea of Iron Man being part of that isn't as far fetched. Hank Pym is a scientist who works on major stuff and in the real world these days, you can't just be a scientist who creates advanced stuff and be totally under the radar. Janet Van Dyne is usually considered more of a co-scientist with Pym as per the Ultimates model rather than simply a flighty, spoiled rich girl who happened to date the right guy anymore, because of, y'know, feminism (because women totally don't use marriage as a promotion these days, no way, Mrs. Hillary Clinton). Thor's from Asgard and I would be a little annoyed if like SHIELD had given him a cell phone at the start of the pilot. And Banner was usually always known to the government even when he was just working on a gamma base. The teaser footage at C232 in April (which was apparently never leaked) seemed to show a mass super villain break out and Nick Fury telling Iron Man that he couldn't handle it alone. I don't know whether Fury will have his Ultimate or 616 design. I'd imagine the former. Like I said, this is one thing that all the movies seem to be doing, and it would be odd if the cartoon didn't have synergy with that in that regard. To me this one element isn't a deal breaker. The Avengers usually always worked with the fed and had clearance anyway. Some of them were more intertwined with that world anyway. Hell, Capt. America would have technically been a military soldier who was MIA for a very, VERY long time. There's no way they'd just thaw him out and not keep any tabs on him, or not just put him back to work whenever he was willing.

It depends on how it is handled. For all we know, maybe Iron Man is the one who is with SHIELD, but the others are freelancers and be brings them in. Or an incident brings them all together and they organize from there. Until we see more test footage or an official trailer it is hard to tell by second hand knowledge.

I probably have more concerns about the Hulk being a regular, long term member of the Avengers team. In the comics, even Ultimate, he wasn't an Avenger for long. He was always too unstable. To me, the decision to keep Hulk on the roster was made for more obligatory popularity reasons than Iron Man being the leader. With Hulk there, Thor won't be the strongest character and he'll be playing second fiddle every time a fight gets tough. Much as Wonder Woman or J'onn almost never beat a threat Superman couldn't overpower in JLU. Plus, I'm concerned about the personality of it. The Hulk is usually seen as a menace, and he's supposed to be tempermental; even more so than Wolverine. Is the Hulk more like a force of nature that gets unleashed because Dr. Banner is working with the Avengers and their adventures sometimes get him angry? Is he a brute who has to be steered into the right direction? Or will be simply become the Thing who talks in third person? If they can't make me believe it, that could be a problem. That was a problem in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, they couldn't make me swallow some of the status quo choices they insisted on.

The Hulk is brute strength and nothing more. Thor has plenty of that, but combined with warrior skill and quite a few additional powers from the hammer besides just shooting electric bolts. In a perfect world both would be shown with their boons and banes, but who knows. I will say that considering Thor will be getting another film a LOT sooner than Hulk appears on the screen again, hopefully this time Thor won't look like a chump.

The Iron Man as leader thing is something I will also have to be used to, but it'll depend. Technically in the comics, Iron Man was a founding Avenger; Capt. America wasn't found until a few issues later, basically to replace the Hulk (and pretend they'd never had him as a founder, since they "retroactively" made Cap a founder. "Oh, yeah, that Hulk bit was just a phase"). They used to have a rotating chairman position where every member was leader for a day or something. For long stretches of time, Wasp even led. So it was some time before Capt. America was the de facto leader of leaders, and if the cartoon shows that evolution from being used to the world he was thawed out in to becoming the best Avenger leader ever, even winning over Iron Man so that the perennial loner and glory hogging control freak gives Rogers the keys to the mansion at some point, that could be good stuff.

Iron Man was always quick to pull rank on Cap as a "founder" if they ever disagreed about something major, such as killing off the Supreme Intelligence, anyway.

My point is that if the show is good overall, I can overlook some differences from 616. If I couldn't, I'd be unable to watch any sort of alternate media interpretation.

Dread

07-13-2010, 06:35 PM

In minor news about the show, in the Toonzone forums, TheVileOne (who is often a bit of an insider as he covers a lot of news for Toonzone) has confirmed that Ms. Marvel will be one of many B-List Avengers to appear in the show, and that she'll be voiced by the ever reliable Jennifer Hale. So this show many end up like JLU; there is a core cast of some 6-8 characters, but other heroes show up a lot and get focus from time to time. Which isn't a bad way to do Avengers per say. Especially since 52 episodes are being produced all at once. I mean, if an X-Men show can always load in the cameos, why not the Avengers?

Ms. Marvel hasn't seen animation since the 90's X-MEN, so she's overdue.

lixdexia

07-13-2010, 07:28 PM

KBX

07-14-2010, 01:10 AM

Ms. Marvel hasn't seen animation since the 90's X-MEN, so she's overdue.

I think Luke Cage has never been animated so he's overdue and I am not counting the SHS show. Hey for me the more characters, the better. Im sure Ms. Marvel will probably be the Huntress of JLU. Never part of the core 7, but featured in a good amount of episodes, espically with ties to Shield. The only part of this show that I don't think will be like JLU is, well JLU had episodes, many episodes that the main 7 didn't even show up in. I don't know if that will ever happen especially within the first 13 or so episodes.

TheVileOne

07-14-2010, 08:12 PM

Ms. Marvel is in like EVERY episode of Superhero Squad played by Grey DeLisle. Dread using his selective photographic memory again ;) .

The thing is, Superhero Squad is actually a good parody/comedy show with some solid and clever writing and performances.

TheCorpulent1

07-15-2010, 11:33 AM

It's understandably not really the kind of show a lot of fans want, though.

TheVileOne

07-15-2010, 01:04 PM

Maybe not. It's not my most desired type of show. It's still a funny enjoyable show.

Dread

07-15-2010, 02:16 PM

I didn't mention Ms. Marvel being on MARVEL SUPERHERO SQUAD because I didn't know. It was sheer ignorance, not omission, on my part.

For me, MSSS seems to be more "kiddie" than BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD, which seems better able to straddle the line of being fluffy for kids and fun for adults. Once you go chibi style, that's pandering to me, and you lose me. I never watched SD GUNDAM, for instance. But, getting the kids hooked is a good idea.

One dilemma that Marvel still has is no iconic heroine that can really match DC's Wonder Woman. In the 90's they thought it was Storm. Even Ms. Marvel is really just a female version of Captain Mar-Vell; the fact that she's outlasted him and become more well known is irrelevant to that fact. Marvel has a lot of great heroines, and many of them will appear in AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES like Wasp, Ms. Marvel, and Black Widow, but none of them really have the iconic status of Wonder Woman.

Ironically, DC often mishandles this status for her, and seems to never know what to do with WW. Proving the fact of life that inherited advantages are often undeserved and unappreciated.

sha1243

07-15-2010, 03:55 PM

I dont know if you guy's know this or not but this show airs in October in Canada.
http://marvel.toonzone.net/news.php?action=fullnews&id=553
"July 15, 2010 by James Harvey ("")
Teletoon has released official details for the Canadian network's Fall 2010 schedule, including details on the debut of The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and new episodes of The Super Hero Squad Show. Coverage also includes a new image from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
The Canadian network Teletoon has released a new press release promoting the new fall season for the popular animation station. The complete press release follows after the official press details for the new The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series and other Marvel Animation-related content.

Teletoon has released the following official details for the upcoming animated series The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, debuting this fall on Teletoon. The new Marvel Animation series will premiere new episodes beginning in October 2010.

The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
Premieres Friday, October 22 at 8 p.m. ET/PT
New Series • 26 x 30 min

http://marvel.toonzone.net/news/images/t-teletoon-avengers.jpg (http://marvel.toonzone.net/news/images/teletoon-avengers.jpg)When the planet is threatened by Super Villains, time traveling conquerors, alien invaders, mythical monsters or mad robots bent on the total destruction of humanity, the Avengers assemble. From Iron Man and Captain America to Thor and The Incredible Hulk, the earth’s mightiest heroes come together to protect the planet from menaces.

The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes will debut new episodes every Friday at 8:00pm (ET), with reruns to air the following Sunday at 12:00pm (ET). Additionally, The Super Hero Squad Show returns to Teletoon for a second season of 26 new adventures. New episodes will debut every Sunday at 9:00am (ET) beginning this fall, with further details available below."
For those who cant open the link

TheCorpulent1

07-15-2010, 04:03 PM

Cool. The article won't open in my browser for some reason, so I'll just ask: any word on a US air date yet?

sha1243

07-15-2010, 04:17 PM

No just Canada. I think it airs in fall 2011 for US.

Dread

07-15-2010, 04:27 PM

Canada tends to always air U.S. cartoons sooner than our networks. If they're announcing it for October, us Yanks will be lucky if it debuts before Christmas here. The reason is YTV and Teletoon actually have sane network executives who understand things like schedules and consistency and giving audiences as many new episodes as possible. Most American networks still act like it is 1997 and it's okay to have 3 new episodes followed by 10 weeks of reruns before the next three new episodes. And then networks seriously wonder why they keep losing thousands of viewers, especially young ones, to the Internet every quarter. Lame decisions like these are way. If Canada can air them in October 2010, I see no reason why the U.S. cannot.

It is interesting that Hawkeye and Black Panther are being featured on the promotional art now. That lack of major iconic heroines is showing, as Wasp is really the only female touch in Team Sausage. And Iron Man's mouthpiece makes him always have an awkward facial expression.

Beyond that, though, looks solid. I want to see another teaser already!

KBX

07-15-2010, 05:12 PM

No word on the U.S. date. Around the Canadian priemere sounds about right.

Glad that Black Panther and Hawkeye are getting some recognition in the poster.

Spidey_62

07-15-2010, 05:14 PM

Cool new poster!

KBX

07-15-2010, 05:21 PM

It is interesting that Hawkeye and Black Panther are being featured on the promotional art now. That lack of major iconic heroines is showing, as Wasp is really the only female touch in Team Sausage. And Iron Man's mouthpiece makes him always have an awkward facial expression.

Beyond that, though, looks solid. I want to see another teaser already!

Even with Wasp you can barely notice she is there. Her, Ms. Marvel, Black Widow, will have to get some serious airtime to even things out. I don't even know if Spider-woman, Scarlett Witch, She-Hulk are up for discussion. Thought you have to go with whoever the main members are at first, and if Wasp is the only one than so be it.

Dread

07-15-2010, 08:47 PM

Even with Wasp you can barely notice she is there. Her, Ms. Marvel, Black Widow, will have to get some serious airtime to even things out. I don't even know if Spider-woman, Scarlett Witch, She-Hulk are up for discussion. Thought you have to go with whoever the main members are at first, and if Wasp is the only one than so be it.

She-Hulk and Spider-Woman, love them or hate them, are still really just feminized versions of male heroes. They're not iconic like Wonder Woman. Marvel's never had a heroine like her - a heroine who was around a very long time who wasn't a feminized version of a male hero, or exclusively attached to teams for most of her existence. I mean Invisible Woman is about as close as they get (who showed us that one can be a powerful heroine as well as a loving wife and mother, you don't have to sacrifice one for the other), but she's naturally part of the Four.

Wasp was always Hank Pym's partner. Black Widow was usually a solo agent when she first started out (beyond being affiliated with Hawkeye, or later Daredevil), but, yeah, it isn't the same. That isn't to say it could matter a huge deal. Just it requires more effort to write the heroines well, so they're not just wallflowers compared to the well known starring male heroes. Wonder Woman never gets lost in a crowd. It's easy for Wasp to be. Part of me thinks they'll treat Ms. Marvel in that way and hope no one notices (perhaps by not having Capt. Mar-Vell around).

It isn't as if DC doesn't have feminized versions of male heroes too; hell, they did it a lot earlier (Supergirl, Batgirl, Batwoman).

KBX

07-16-2010, 12:43 AM

So Marvels top heroines are with the Fantastic Four(Invisible Woman) or the Xmen(Storm, Jean Grey). You are right Marvel doesn't have anybody that can rival Wonder Woman. Its just in JLU they pushed Hawkgirl to even things out and thats basically what we can hope for with this show. Wonder Woman is JLU lead heroine, and for arguements sake lets say the Avengers main heroine is Wasp. Who is going to be the Avengers Hawkgirl? Is it Black Widow? is it Ms. Marvel? Im leaning toward Widow solely on the fact we have actually seen a picture of her. And Scarlett Johansson is playing her in the live-action movies.

50 years from now, are we still going to not know who is the iconic female heroine for Marvel? I would have to say so. Unless Emma Frost comes through! lol

Dread

07-17-2010, 12:45 AM

These pictures are basically from April (or even last year), but someone at Toonzone posted a link and with the debut of a new poster image, a look at slightly better resolution images may be helpful, especially for those new to this topic:

http://www.animatedsuperheroes.com/2010/04/avengers-images-from-c2e2.html

Featured:
- Two screen-shots of the "founding" Avengers - Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Wasp, and Giant-Man.
- One screen shot of Captain America.
Production artwork for:
- Hawkeye
- Black Widow
- Loki
- Ultron
- Kang the Conqueror
- HYDRA: Featuring a horde of minions, human sized and giant robot sized; Red Skull, Baron Strucker, Grim Reaper, Arnim Zola, Doughboy (one of Zola's creations), and Viper/Madame Hydra.

Again, part of me thinks these designs will look better in motion than still, much like the character models for SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN or JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED did. Some call them "Timm-esque" but I just think they're simple enough to be animated well on a TV budget while still looking like iconic, 616 (not Ultimate) designs. Cap, for instance, seems to have hints of Jack Kirby in his design (especially the mask). There are some "modern" add-ons; Cap's belt has the pouches of modern day suits, but they're 616 designs. These ain't the Ultimate Avengers. Doughboy looking a bit like Clayface, though, won't help those comparisons to the Bruce Timm style.

So Marvels top heroines are with the Fantastic Four(Invisible Woman) or the Xmen(Storm, Jean Grey). You are right Marvel doesn't have anybody that can rival Wonder Woman. Its just in JLU they pushed Hawkgirl to even things out and thats basically what we can hope for with this show. Wonder Woman is JLU lead heroine, and for arguements sake lets say the Avengers main heroine is Wasp. Who is going to be the Avengers Hawkgirl? Is it Black Widow? is it Ms. Marvel? Im leaning toward Widow solely on the fact we have actually seen a picture of her. And Scarlett Johansson is playing her in the live-action movies.

50 years from now, are we still going to not know who is the iconic female heroine for Marvel? I would have to say so. Unless Emma Frost comes through! lol

If this show is sticking to the original comics as well as promised, Black Widow was involved with the Avengers a lot sooner than Ms. Marvel was. It also fits with the movie franchise to include her. Both the "ULTIMATE AVENGERS" and "NEXT AVENGERS" DTV films had her romantically involved with Capt. America (probably due to the irony of a relic from WWII and a relic from the Cold War finding love), so I will be curious if that continues here. Of course, she could start off alongside Hawkeye.

Now, I just want to make clear that just because Marvel really has no answer for Wonder Woman in terms of a solo heroine with iconic status, that doesn't mean that I don't like many of Marvel's heroines. Quite the opposite. I probably like Black Widow more than I'll ever like, say, Black Canary. Seeing the Wasp, ideally, evolve from a flighty party girl with super-powers to someone who can be a capable leader of the team that even Iron Man and Cap respect would be quite a good arc for her. And I imagine Marvel wants to close their eyes and try really, REALLY hard to claim Ms. Marvel is their answer to Wonder Woman. After all, she has their name in hers. But it really isn't the same. Many of Marvel's heroes of the Golden Age were incredibly patriotic, and many of them didn't survive into the modern age. I suppose Sun-Girl probably could have been an ideal one to have tried; she didn't have a star spangled name like "Miss America", and there's nothing wrong with a hot blond with a golden costume with powers revolving around the sun. She ended up a partner to the Human Torch, but she had three issues of her own comic in 1948, which is something. Marvel never took that route, though, in the Silver Age, and now is way too late. Marvel dusted off an elderly Blond Phantom for some of SHE-HULK's run during the John Bryne era, but that's been it.

It is probably worth saying that solo heroines selling in comics has always been a tough route. Wonder Woman is DC's iconic example, but they don't have many besides her; even Black Canary is best known for her JSA membership back then. During the 1950's when superhero comics were abolished for years, Marvel didn't have a few that stayed around like DC did, and when they revived in the 1960's, they usually relied on team franchises or quirky new male heroes, because they sold. That isn't to knock the Wasp too much; partner to Hank Pym as she may have been, she still has been around a very long time; longer than the Wasp, or Scarlet Witch, or even Ms. Marvel. Marvel as a company, though, lacks that heroine they can properly match against Wonder Woman, and sometimes that hurts big shows like this because many people expect a heroine to do so.

I am curious if any mutant characters like the Maximoff twins or Magneto or so on could appear in AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES. Scarlet Witch was actually one of the major triumphs of WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN; I thought she was written quite well.

Having strong female characters is more than just eye-candy; shows, even cartoons, tend to do better if they appeal to both male and female viewers, and just as men tend to relate better to male heroes (on average), women tend to relate better to female heroes. To this date the most popular Marvel cartoon among women is X-MEN EVOLUTION, and why? It had many well written female characters in it; a roughly even ratio with the male ones (I'd argue Rogue got far more focus on that show than even Wolverine). Wonder Woman can draw a crowd just by putting on pants and a leather jacket; Marvel lacks a heroine who commands that kind of draw, and it's always been a shame.

If the show follows from the comics as closely as some have hinted, though, than some of the B and C list Avengers like Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, and Wonder Man will come in after many of the founders leave for whatever reason, at least briefly.

TheCorpulent1

07-17-2010, 11:06 AM

lixdexia

07-17-2010, 11:11 AM

TheCorpulent1

07-17-2010, 01:08 PM

I like how Pym's design has little folds that expand to reveal the blue lines when he grows. That's a clever idea.

Dread

07-17-2010, 03:40 PM

I'm still not a huge fan of Thor's design. He's a bit too big and his design is a bit too exaggerated, to the point of looking silly. I'm especially not fond of the big WWE championship belt he's wearing. People on that Toonzone article have commented on the exaggeration, too.

I like the other designs, though. I especially love that they're using Doughboy as a villain. It tells me the show won't try to take itself too seriously. That issue where Zola sics him on Cap and Eric Masterson in some random house was one of my favorites as a kid. :hehe:

Hey now, at least Thor being so ridiculously large means he won't be dwarfed by the Hulk. And maybe the belt is so large because, in both the comics and the mythology, Thor has a "Belt/Girdle Of Strength" that he could use to double his might during emergencies. And at least Thor's design bares his original iconic costume design, rather than the newer Oliver Coipel look (or the Bryan Hitch Ultimates look). But I could be giving them too much credit with the belt thing (although it could be interesting). I do agree he does look a bit inflated and top-heavy. But so did Superman in quite a lot of Bruce Timm stuff. In fact, the action figures based on those JLU designs were infamous for not being able to stand well because the molds followed the top heavy 2D designs too closely. Frankly, so long as Thor is written and acted well, I'll eventually not care that he looks like he is about to tear his shirt in half and threaten to run wild on someone with his 24'' pythons, brother.

I think Iron Man's mouthpiece is more distracting, to be honest. In fact the only Iron Man cartoon which was smart enough to remove it was his default armor from the second season of his 90's show. It tends to make Iron Man look dumbfounded in many shots. I imagine it is there because, with an emotionless helmet, if you show it from different angles with the camera, it can almost help for facial expressions.

Doughboy being there was an additional sign that this show would be a show based in the foundations of the 616 universe, not entirely enraptured with Ultimate. I know some are freaking about the SHIELD stuff, but that could be the exception, rather than the rule here. The last show Chris Yost had major influence in was FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES (Craig Kyle worked on it too, but Yost was more of an equal partner on that than some other collaborations), and that show's tone was usually always light. AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES needs to get that mix right, though. FF:WGH did not; but about 13 episodes in, the creators so realized they bombed on handling the dramatic superhero stuff that they chose to refocus on comedy more often (which for that show was no bad thing; it was often incredibly funny, like a more deadpan version of THE VENTURE BROTHERS). Still, the show hopefully won't be as humorless as WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN was, which as usual with the X-Men, took itself too seriously at nearly every turn. I mean, hell, Arnim Zola and Grim Reaper look cool, too. So does Loki.

It's been four years since JLU ended and nothing either Marvel or DC have put on TV have really matched it, least as a team show. A:EGH needs to be that show. If Marvel Animation is ever going to escape trying to match the Timmverse, this has to be the show to shatter that wall. There can be no excuses this time.

TheCorpulent1

07-17-2010, 03:46 PM

KBX

07-18-2010, 12:26 AM

Here is an interview with Wally Wingert. He will voice Antman, Giantman and soon to be Yellow Jacket. Said they completed the 2nd season of Earths Mightest Heroes(wait all 52?) its pretty quick though it worth mentioning that the Avengers will air sometime NEXT year???

http://**************.com/fansites/Kaboom/news/?a=20163

Dread

07-18-2010, 02:58 AM

Don't you even joke about them using the Ultimate Thor design in other media, Dread. :argh:

But yeah, I'm not saying I hate the design or anything. It's definitely, unmistakably Thor. I just wish he weren't so cartoonish, for lack of a better word, especially when placed next to Iron Man, who looks very sleek and cool.

But...they HAVE used the Ultimate Thor design in other media. There were two ULTIMATE AVENGERS animated DVD's (the first two under the Marvel/Lion's Gate deal) - Dave Boat voiced him. That was his default costume in MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE. It happened, dude. :(

But, yeah, Thor's worn his classic duds ever since, such as in HULK VS. THOR (and his brief cameo in NEXT AVENGERS was hardly Ultimate-esque) and in PLANET HULK. And of course here.

Iron Man ALWAYS look sleek and cool. That said, again, his mouth-piece looks silly. When I look at Thor in those shots, I go, "Damn, he's as big as a truck, don't want to mess with him." When I look at Iron Man, I go, "Why does that action figure look like he just got kicked in the codpiece?" ;)

Here is an interview with Wally Wingert. He will voice Antman, Giantman and soon to be Yellow Jacket. Said they completed the 2nd season of Earths Mightest Heroes(wait all 52?) its pretty quick though it worth mentioning that the Avengers will air sometime NEXT year???

http://**************.com/fansites/Kaboom/news/?a=20163

Voice acting is the first thing completed in Western animation, done many months before the animation comes back overseas. So it isn't impossible they they could be through 52 episodes already. Or at least Wingert's portion of 52 episodes.

KBX

07-18-2010, 03:27 AM

It's been four years since JLU ended and nothing either Marvel or DC have put on TV have really matched it, least as a team show. A:EGH needs to be that show. If Marvel Animation is ever going to escape trying to match the Timmverse, this has to be the show to shatter that wall. There can be no excuses this time.

Well part of the reason why the Timmverse was so popular was it had Batman TAS and Superman TAS, both very good, lead into the Justice league. Avengers EMH does not have that luxury. If it were to match watch Bruce Timm did to the DC Universe we would have an Ironman TAS and a Captain America TAS lead into the Avengers EMH. Once this show is over, thats probably it. The closest it can get is just be as good as JL and JLU, not the Timmverse. And I seriously doubt the Avengers EMH would turn into the New Avengers or Mighty Avengers like JL to JLU. But HEY as much as a JL fan I am, I want this show to be as good if not better....

TheVileOne

07-18-2010, 05:30 AM

I didn't mention Ms. Marvel being on MARVEL SUPERHERO SQUAD because I didn't know. It was sheer ignorance, not omission, on my part.

For me, MSSS seems to be more "kiddie" than BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD, which seems better able to straddle the line of being fluffy for kids and fun for adults. Once you go chibi style, that's pandering to me, and you lose me. I never watched SD GUNDAM, for instance. But, getting the kids hooked is a good idea.

It's still an animated property and an animated appearance of the character.

One dilemma that Marvel still has is no iconic heroine that can really match DC's Wonder Woman. In the 90's they thought it was Storm. Even Ms. Marvel is really just a female version of Captain Mar-Vell; the fact that she's outlasted him and become more well known is irrelevant to that fact. Marvel has a lot of great heroines, and many of them will appear in AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES like Wasp, Ms. Marvel, and Black Widow, but none of them really have the iconic status of Wonder Woman.

It's all opinion at the the end of the day. Wonder Woman was still basically the first one though so I mean there's a reason for that.

I also spoke with Kyle Hebert (Ryu Hoshi, Adult Gohan) who will be playing two small roles in the show. From what Kyle told me, his characters do previously exist in the Marvel Universe. I'm very happy for Kyle finally breaking into pre-lay animation world.

TheCorpulent1

07-18-2010, 01:47 PM

But...they HAVE used the Ultimate Thor design in other media. There were two ULTIMATE AVENGERS animated DVD's (the first two under the Marvel/Lion's Gate deal) - Dave Boat voiced him. That was his default costume in MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE. It happened, dude. :(

But, yeah, Thor's worn his classic duds ever since, such as in HULK VS. THOR (and his brief cameo in NEXT AVENGERS was hardly Ultimate-esque) and in PLANET HULK. And of course here.
Meh, I didn't like any of those so I pretend they don't exist. That's the nice thing about adaptations to other media. :)

Dread

07-19-2010, 03:18 PM

Well part of the reason why the Timmverse was so popular was it had Batman TAS and Superman TAS, both very good, lead into the Justice league. Avengers EMH does not have that luxury. If it were to match watch Bruce Timm did to the DC Universe we would have an Ironman TAS and a Captain America TAS lead into the Avengers EMH. Once this show is over, thats probably it. The closest it can get is just be as good as JL and JLU, not the Timmverse. And I seriously doubt the Avengers EMH would turn into the New Avengers or Mighty Avengers like JL to JLU. But HEY as much as a JL fan I am, I want this show to be as good if not better....

That is true; Marvel has never had the opportunity to have several solo heroes shows lead into a team show like Bruce Timm did. They DID have that chance in the 90's when AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND came about. IRON MAN had ended, as had THE INCREDIBLE HULK. Hell, Captain America had shown up in SPIDER-MAN and X-MEN. But, of course, that show was a god awful abomination. And Marvel Animation hasn't shared any continuity with each other since the 90's ended.

That said, that doesn't mean AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES can't be an awesome team show. The "Timmverse" did have it's problems. Batman often stole the show and many times seemed to overwhelm the rest of the cast as he was the one who the production team had the most experience with. The Flash was mostly a one note comic relief guy until well into JLU. It took the show a while to get used to the team's power levels and handle them appropriately. And so on. So there are areas where, if A:EMH can get them right off the bat, that'll be a good way to make their mark.

It's still an animated property and an animated appearance of the character.

So it does. Like I said, I only omitted mentioning it because I didn't know.

It's all opinion at the the end of the day. Wonder Woman was still basically the first one though so I mean there's a reason for that.

I also spoke with Kyle Hebert (Ryu Hoshi, Adult Gohan) who will be playing two small roles in the show. From what Kyle told me, his characters do previously exist in the Marvel Universe. I'm very happy for Kyle finally breaking into pre-lay animation world.

That is cool. I imagine with some anime dubbing companies going out of business or shrinking their size, there many be more anime voice actors than there is work so more of them may have to come over into Western animation. Which is no bad thing. The two are linked and many voice actors come from one or the other, and/or video games. Kirk Thorton was born to voice Captain America (or maybe U.S. Agent).

Meh, I didn't like any of those so I pretend they don't exist. That's the nice thing about adaptations to other media. :)

To each their own. While they're no masterpieces, I liked the ULTIMATE AVENGERS animated films as superhero adventure yarns (that are less offensive than the comics they were based on). But I'm grateful that, finally, we're getting a "real" Avengers cartoon series that, at least from what we know, seems to be making all the right noises.

Zant

07-19-2010, 04:11 PM

I hope this series has a season long arc like Wolverine and the Xmen,thats what set aside that show from most superhero toons.This show needs ambitious storytelling like that.Episodic shows like Batman brave and the bold are cool too I guess.

TheCorpulent1

07-19-2010, 04:16 PM

They'll probably rely on done-in-one episodes for the beginning, at least. Usually, shows seem to start that way and then, once the higher-ups are confident they can keep viewers coming back, they start to allow more long-term arcs.

Dread

07-19-2010, 05:03 PM

It depends on what Chris Yost and Josh Fine, as well as the other staff writers, have in store for this show. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN started out with a 3 part arc to kick the series off, which led right into the season (and series) long story arc and subplot. They were prepared to continue the same when season two got canceled. So I would say the odds of AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES starting off with a pilot that, at least, kicks off a subplot that carries into several episodes is at least 1:2.

Silver Knight

07-20-2010, 12:08 AM

Love the new poster. It kinda looks like the first pic we ever got about 2 years ago.

TheVileOne

07-20-2010, 03:23 AM

They want to do a lot of stuff similar to the comics, so I'm sure there will be ongoing storylines.

You will have to do lots of ongoing things if you are bringing in Ultron, Vision, etc.

I'm working on lining up interviews with Chris Yost and Greg Johnson at San Diego. Johnson isn't working on this series, but he tells me he is working on a new show for Hasbro (that probably narrows it down, my guess is Transformers: Prime). Yost is basically the head writer for this esries.

Chris Yost wrote Ultron in Next Avengers, so that's a pretty good indication of what Ultron will be like in this series. Same voice actor (Tom Kane) too.

Dread

07-20-2010, 01:46 PM

IMDB also lists Caroline Farah and Mark Parsons as writers on the show, but IMDB isn't always accurate so I take anything they claim with a grain of salt. The site doesn't, for instance, list the "TEEN TITANS" director who was confirmed on this show two years ago. Nor does it list Josh Fine as a producer. If Farah and Parsons are staff writers though, they have little experience with these sorts of shows.

The "teaser" animation that was released initially in 2008 featured Pym and Janet in their lab literally working on Ultron when the Avengers alert signals, and the team has to fight Kang's robots. So it seems possible that some villains, Ultron especially, may be built up over several episodes, like in "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN". Hell, even if we want to use the last show Chris Yost had major influence in, "FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES", even that show had minor subplots that carried over into future episodes, and references to past episodes clearly set before others. He also wrote about 17 episodes of the 2k3 TMNT show (BEFORE it turned to suck with "Fast Forward"), and that show was just as much of a serial show as TSSM was (and years earlier). And this isn't counting W&TXM, which was another heavily serial show that Yost did write for (he is credited with writing or co-writing 8 episodes of that).

This is really the first TV show (or even animation in general) Yost is working on where he's the number one guy; usually he was partnered with Craig Kyle, who usually called the shots in the end (or at least had equal influence over a show). To use a geek example, this is Yost moving from being Robin to Nightwing (or moving from "Batman's partner" to "Leader of the Teen Titans"). The fact that the show was given an order of 52 episodes right off the bat alone spells how important it is to Marvel and Disney; the last TV show that got an order of that many episodes was "X-MEN EVOLUTION", and even that order I don't believe occurred before even the pilot aired. And if 52 episodes have been ordered, then they will all air regardless of ratings, since that's the only way to get returns on investments. On top of that, this is the first Avengers TV cartoon made within a decade and the last was an abysmal failure. Frankly, if this show is a dud, Yost's career would get a major blemish, and he'd have to be a fool not to realize that. Thus, I can imagine that he's pouring everything he has into this show, in addition to his role at the top.

A lot of people nitpick the Lion's Gate DTV's to death (I can smell my own), but aside for "INVINCIBLE IRON MAN", they all have moments of greatness in them, or at least efficiency, and tended to get better as they went along. HULK VS. and PLANET HULK were far better than the first two ULTIMATE AVENGERS films were. I actually am glad that Tom Kane is reprising his role as Ultron from NEXT AVENGERS; Ultron was among the major highlights of that film (so much so that he deserved better opponents than a gaggle of cliched child heroes that anyone at Hype could have thought up in five minutes. Of course Cap's kid is the leader and uses a shield. Of course Thor's daughter is a warrior born. Of course Pym's kid is a spastic dork. The RUNAWAYS they weren't). As I have said previously, the problem with most of Marvel Animation from the Kyle/Yost team wasn't that it was horrid; it never was. Rather, that it mixed moments of brilliance in between many moments of mediocrity or missed opportunities. Just about all of the flaws of W&TXM came down to issues with writing (to narrow it down, sacrificing logical characterization for storyline focus). But, again, the writing dynamic has now changed. The stakes are higher. To dismiss that and assume what the final product will be based on prior evidence can only go so far. No show from Kyle/Yost has attained that level of consistent brilliance in the same way as TSSM did. Not even X-MEN EVOLUTION was that consistently great for longer than a season, and I enjoyed that show. But now Yost's been promoted, and it is his show. That's a major shift. And his solo comic work, as well as his solo work on TMNT, was usually quite good.

From what I see, though, Yost is bringing along a lot of Avengers history into this show, from Kang to Ultron to Grim Reaper to even bloody Doughboy. Seriously, who expected to ever seen an animated version of Doughboy in anything that wasn't a comedy show? And everyone groaned when the Hulk was part of the founding team, but we're also getting fan-fave B-List Avengers like Hawkeye, Black Panther, Wonder Man, and Ms. Marvel. It's making all the right noises that it'll be good, or at least wants to be very good, which is a positive thing.