A New Formula?

[Project862006]

Does anybody think Spiderman has gotten stale not in quality but in its standard formula over the past 3 films.It seems like it is the same thing Mary jane is always getting kid napped to be the damsel in distress.The Villain aklway starts off friendly and is a good guy but turns evil.Then in the end he shows he has a heart still before he is killed or defeated.Does anybody think this forumal is a bit dry by now and if so what are your guys suggestions on a formula they should take it for the fourth film.

[venomvsspidey]

thats pretty much how it always works out.

take ian malocolms line for the lost world

yeah ooh ahh, thats how it always starts...but then later there's running...and screaming.

and no. i dont think it's old.

[SpaceWay2009]

I completely agree. The kidnap of MJ and the "good" villain is getting old now. I'm sure SM4 will introduce something new.

[venomvsspidey]

originally though, it was to be gwen; for sm3.

[Spider-Fan83]

3 didn't really fellow that formula as close as the first two did

ya, his friend Harry became a villain

and Sandman had a sympathetic back story

but, sandman wasn’t really a good guy turned bad, then good again
he was never quite good, but, he was never really bad, he did bad things for good reasons
and though, he did have a connection to him with the whole Uncle Ben thing, he didn't know Peter before hand

and venom, didn't follow the formula at all
he wasn't Peter's friend
he didn't really start out good
he didn't have a last minute change of heart...

and none of them were scientist

so, aside from MJ still get kidnapping, I'd say they did break the formula quite abit, and probably will follow suit in breaking the formula even more in the next

but, you got to expect certain standards to always stay consistent in these type of movies

[E-Man]

I say much less Mary Jane this time around. We've worked out their problems through the first three films already, and we know they're together for good. I want to know she's still there, but I don't want to see her and Peter go through something again.

I want a downright nasty villain too. A straight up evil guy that is the anti Peter. He gets powers and enjoys hurting people with it. That way we can get back to seeing why Pete does what he does. Show the world why it needs a Spider-man.

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

I say much less Mary Jane this time around. We've worked out their problems through the first three films already, and we know they're together for good. I want to know she's still there, but I don't want to see her and Peter go through something again.

I want a downright nasty villain too. A straight up evil guy that is the anti Peter. He gets powers and enjoys hurting people with it. That way we can get back to seeing why Pete does what he does. Show the world why it needs a Spider-man. sounds like you want carnage.

[Project862006]

i say kill her by peter's unknown doing like tdk

[Spider-Fan]

Cause we need to copy Nolan's Batman films in everything now so that formula gets stale also :up:

[Spider-ManHero12]

The 3 films had a great formula, IMO, but I think the 4th one will be quite different from the first 3.

[SuperFerret]

i say kill her by peter's unknown doing like tdk

I recognize these words, but not in this order. :huh:

As for everyone wanting a smaller role for MJ, you're hoping for the impossible. Even if they are together now, couples still have problems, and I'm sure that there will be a Peter-MJ subplot in the film. I'm hoping they go into her smoking like they did in the comics.

[GoldGoblin]

New Formula:

-The villain not tied to Peter.
-Spidey's costume not getting ripped.
-Spidey's mask staying on.
-MJ not getting taken hostage.
-The villain not turning into a good guy in the end.
-Spidey actually kicking more butt than getting his butt kicked.

[SuperFerret]

New Formula:

-The villain not tied to Peter.
-Spidey's costume not getting ripped.
-Spidey's mask staying on.
-MJ not getting taken hostage.
-The villain not turning into a good guy in the end.
-Spidey actually kicking more butt than getting his butt kicked.

This is a Spider-Man movie, though. Getting his ass kicked and having his suit torn up is a trademark of his.

[Goran]

I think they need to do both: adopt and adapt the old formula!

e.g. the old scientist-gone-crazy-story and a villain that is evil throughout the whole film: Lizard and Kraven

and use MJ as Peter's love interest. she is and will be forever "his girl"!
But that doesn't mean that she has to get kidnapped by the villain(s). At the end Gwen could be kidnapped by accident. The villain doesn't have to know she's a connection to peter. She's just a girl which is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[SpaceWay2009]

New Formula:

-The villain not tied to Peter.
-Spidey's costume not getting ripped.
-Spidey's mask staying on.
-MJ not getting taken hostage.
-The villain not turning into a good guy in the end.
-Spidey actually kicking more butt than getting his butt kicked.I agree. At first, I didn't mind the ripped mask. I'm fine with the ripped costume. I just want his mask to stay on.

[mjbull23]

Yeah, part four will have a different feel to it. For the first time no osbourn will play a role. The entire death of Uncle Ben story arc will be completed. We have closure there.

Seems like pete is in a good place now. His past demons are buried with everyone. Harry. MJ. Uncle Ben.

This will almost be a fresh start. Where do we take this character, and introduce him to new pain?

[arachnid-guy]

I am excited to see where they can take this character after the conclusions of the 3rd movie.

[November Rain]

as much as a change of things may do, money talks

i'm sure marvel and sony are more interested in making money than providing a cohesive narrative.

it's not like they haven't secured at least 200 million off it already.

[bullets]

I would of liked to see Gwen tied into the end of Spider-Man 3 but there is also a chance for that in SM4 . I expect the love triangle to continue.

[thejon93]

I'm just hoping the studio doesn't grant this movie an even larger budget than before. We already know Tobey's getting paid a huge $50M for this one(possibly a fifth as well), so... here's to hoping he doesn't come in with his ego set on autopilot.

Also, if The Lizard's in this installment, I would hope that they have a stunt double(alike they did Venom) so they won't be provoked to go CG crazy with the character. Look at what they did with making 'Hellboy' and the Sammael creature. They only used CG when they needed it. Also, I hope that they make an animatronic head for The Lizard.

I just want to see a movie that's not obsessed with doing everything in CG-department when these are still human characters we're dealing with.

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah, part four will have a different feel to it. For the first time no osbourn will play a role. The entire death of Uncle Ben story arc will be completed. We have closure there.

Seems like pete is in a good place now. His past demons are buried with everyone. Harry. MJ. Uncle Ben.

This will almost be a fresh start. Where do we take this character, and introduce him to new pain?

I think this movie, especially if it has Lizard and Kraven as villains, should have an underlying theme of obsession. Connors is obsessed with getting a new arm, and it turns him into a monster. Kraven is obsessed with the thrill of hunting, and it should make him more mad as the film goes. As for what kind of obsession Peter is dealing with, no idea. Perhaps he wants to redeem all the bad he did in SM3 by letting his Spider-Man life take priority over his life as Peter? Anyway, that's for the filmmakers to decide, but I certainly think it can be done. But I think this is the angle to go with, assuming these two characters are used. I still think everyone is making a big assumption by penciling in Kraven as the villain along with the Lizard.

[The Slang]

Yes a new formula is definitely needed. At the end of SM 2 I was like, 'rescue MJ again? uh... okay what ever'. Then at the end of SM3 it was just like, 'C'mon, again?? really?'.

I'm tired of the peter/MJ drama too... he's spider-man! how can he not hold onto his girlfriend. The only problem they should have is MJ being worried when peter goes out as spider-man, not Mj being jealous of the attention he's getting. What a B!atch!

[[A]]

I completely agree. The kidnap of MJ and the "good" villain is getting old now. I'm sure SM4 will introduce something new.I don't think so. We'll get the same: good bad guys, damsel-in -distress, silly jokes in the middle of action scenes and cheap cleavage shots :csad:

[Silver Spider]

But that doesn't mean that she has to get kidnapped by the villain(s). At the end Gwen could be kidnapped by accident. The villain doesn't have to know she's a connection to peter. She's just a girl which is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Or Gwen could be kidnapped because she's a police captain's daughter.

[SpaceWay2009]

I think this movie, especially if it has Lizard and Kraven as villains, should have an underlying theme of obsession. Connors is obsessed with getting a new arm, and it turns him into a monster. Kraven is obsessed with the thrill of hunting, and it should make him more mad as the film goes. As for what kind of obsession Peter is dealing with, no idea. Perhaps he wants to redeem all the bad he did in SM3 by letting his Spider-Man life take priority over his life as Peter? Anyway, that's for the filmmakers to decide, but I certainly think it can be done. But I think this is the angle to go with, assuming these two characters are used. I still think everyone is making a big assumption by penciling in Kraven as the villain along with the Lizard.Great ideas! I like the theme obsession.

[Immortalfire]

I too grow tired of MJ constantly in peril, but definitely no more nice villains. Be bad....really bad.

[chaseter]

I think this movie, especially if it has Lizard and Kraven as villains, should have an underlying theme of obsession. Connors is obsessed with getting a new arm, and it turns him into a monster. Kraven is obsessed with the thrill of hunting, and it should make him more mad as the film goes. As for what kind of obsession Peter is dealing with, no idea. Perhaps he wants to redeem all the bad he did in SM3 by letting his Spider-Man life take priority over his life as Peter? Anyway, that's for the filmmakers to decide, but I certainly think it can be done. But I think this is the angle to go with, assuming these two characters are used. I still think everyone is making a big assumption by penciling in Kraven as the villain along with the Lizard.
I said SM4 should be about redemption. Dr. Connors and Peter Parker need to redeem themselves in both the eyes of themselves and in the eyes of their loved ones. Spider-Man does something horrible this time in the movie and gets negative spin and becomes a vigilante again and tries to redeem himself but he fails. Dr. Connors does something horrible like hurt his wife when the lizard begins to take over.

And, of course there has to be a villian that displays the opposite like a pompous Kraven or maybe even Electro and they end up dead or in jail for that.

[weezerspider]

I think this movie, especially if it has Lizard and Kraven as villains, should have an underlying theme of obsession. Connors is obsessed with getting a new arm, and it turns him into a monster. Kraven is obsessed with the thrill of hunting, and it should make him more mad as the film goes. As for what kind of obsession Peter is dealing with, no idea. Perhaps he wants to redeem all the bad he did in SM3 by letting his Spider-Man life take priority over his life as Peter? Anyway, that's for the filmmakers to decide, but I certainly think it can be done. But I think this is the angle to go with, assuming these two characters are used. I still think everyone is making a big assumption by penciling in Kraven as the villain along with the Lizard.

I like Obession as a theme, but that obsession for Peter sounds too much like Bruce Wayne's relationship with Batman.

[chaseter]

Peter would become obsessed with trying to help Connors out too much instead of just taking him down that he lets some bad things happen or slip by.

[GregComicFan]

I think Mary Jane always getting kidnapped in the end is lame and I thought that during the third movie too.... After Spiderman 1 and Spiderman 2 they should of done something else with MJ at the end of Spiderman 3.

[E-Man]

I think this movie, especially if it has Lizard and Kraven as villains, should have an underlying theme of obsession. Connors is obsessed with getting a new arm, and it turns him into a monster. Kraven is obsessed with the thrill of hunting, and it should make him more mad as the film goes. As for what kind of obsession Peter is dealing with, no idea. Perhaps he wants to redeem all the bad he did in SM3 by letting his Spider-Man life take priority over his life as Peter? Anyway, that's for the filmmakers to decide, but I certainly think it can be done. But I think this is the angle to go with, assuming these two characters are used. I still think everyone is making a big assumption by penciling in Kraven as the villain along with the Lizard.

I like your theme, but i only want one villain. Both Kraven and Lizard are good enough to carry the film as the sole villain. The only case I'd want to see multiple villains again is if it's a minor villain that gets put down early on like a Mysterio or Shocker. I want the villains to get plenty of screen time to do their thing like Green Goblin and Doc Ock did.

[scatterax]

if lizard is the villain i could see gwen trying confonting conners right b4 a transformation (after all, she's his student too) and peter having to save gwen from a mindless lizard.

also, it would be kinda nice if mj saved pete in some small way. like tackling kraven just b4 he's about to shoot spidey. (can you tell i'm hoping for a lizard and kraven team up?)

also, it would be really great if the villains DON'T figure out his "secret" identity this time. cuz so far every villain has.

[scatterax]

I like your theme, but i only want one villain. Both Kraven and Lizard are good enough to carry the film as the sole villain. The only case I'd want to see multiple villains again is if it's a minor villain that gets put down early on like a Mysterio or Shocker. I want the villains to get plenty of screen time to do their thing like Green Goblin and Doc Ock did.

i can understand u calling shocker a minor villain, but mysterio?

[The Squirrel]

I hope they come up with a new and refreshing formula for SM4.

[LightningFlash]

So everyone doesn't consider Marko's line with "I'm not a bad person?"

It IS the same formula. Marko accidentally killed Ben. It was his FIRST time with stealing money. He made bad mistakes.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

I think the key is to start developing the characters around Peter: Jameson, Captain Stacy, Doc Connors, etcetera, while leaving the focus on Spider-Man/Peter Parker.

[Spider-Fan]

I've not been in this thread for days, and missed a lot of people quoting me :wow:

I said SM4 should be about redemption. Dr. Connors and Peter Parker need to redeem themselves in both the eyes of themselves and in the eyes of their loved ones. Spider-Man does something horrible this time in the movie and gets negative spin and becomes a vigilante again and tries to redeem himself but he fails. Dr. Connors does something horrible like hurt his wife when the lizard begins to take over.

And, of course there has to be a villian that displays the opposite like a pompous Kraven or maybe even Electro and they end up dead or in jail for that.

Redemption has been done with the villain with Ock already, though. Ock redeemed himself at the end, as part of the sacrifice theme. While I think for Peter redemption is a good motivator, I would tie it with obsession if I was doing it.

I like Obession as a theme, but that obsession for Peter sounds too much like Bruce Wayne's relationship with Batman.

That was an off the top of my head example. I think if they did that it could be differentiated from Batman.

I like your theme, but i only want one villain. Both Kraven and Lizard are good enough to carry the film as the sole villain. The only case I'd want to see multiple villains again is if it's a minor villain that gets put down early on like a Mysterio or Shocker. I want the villains to get plenty of screen time to do their thing like Green Goblin and Doc Ock did.

Thing is if we have 1 villain, say Lizard, we kind of have the good man gone bad angle with no villain whom is just purely evil or driven. I think we need both in this film. Back to formula in some ways, new formula in others.

[E-Man]

Thing is if we have 1 villain, say Lizard, we kind of have the good man gone bad angle with no villain whom is just purely evil or driven. I think we need both in this film. Back to formula in some ways, new formula in others.

Green Goblin asks, "Back to formula?":oldrazz:

I think you can do one villain, and have them be pure evil instead of good going bad. Of course with Lizard you kinda have to have Dr. Connors be protrayed as a good guy since that's what we've seen somewhat already. BUt say the villain is a guy like Electro. He really never was a good guy, so you can make the movie about a bad guy like him happening to get powers. Like he grows up in a bad neighborhood and all, and after getting his powers he goes from theft to getting revenge on higher ups that he feels screwed him over.

[LightningFlash]

Two villains can be done properly. Heck, I think three villains could work, it just takes a right script to do so.

[Pagrebo]

Why does anyone need to be kidnapped in SM4? If Lizard and Kraven are the "villains" (and it's still anyone's guess), then no kidnapping is needed. The connection for Peter is in the form of Dr. Connors. SM needs to both stop the Lizard AND protect Connors from Kraven. No damsel-in-distress necessary.

[E-Man]

i can understand u calling shocker a minor villain, but mysterio?
I fear that the general public wouldn't take him too seriously. Even without the fishbowl I don't see Sony having big plans for the guy.

[scatterax]

Why does anyone need to be kidnapped in SM4? If Lizard and Kraven are the "villains" (and it's still anyone's guess), then no kidnapping is needed. The connection for Peter is in the form of Dr. Connors. SM needs to both stop the Lizard AND protect Connors from Kraven. No damsel-in-distress necessary.

actually if they're the villains, the lizard could start out as the main bad guy, then kraven could start hunting the lizard, and spiderman, knowing that the lizard is conners tries to stop him and when kraven fights spiderman he realizes he is the more challenging prey. so when kraven captures the lizard he could leave conners alive as bate. (since parker defended him, he knows he'll come to save him.)

so u could still have parker save some1 w/o the whole "damsel in distress" angle.

idk. i just think a lizard+kraven story has allot of potential.