Should Spidey-3 be retconned?

[AnorexicBatman]

Simple question that begs a relatively complex answer. Spidey-3 is a very sepcialmovie but for all the wrong reasons. It was supposed to be the original Dark Knight a movie so wonderfully awesome, epic and thought provoking that it blows us away and changes forever what superhero movies can and cannot do...

Unfortunately it disappointed us greatly and it was later discovered that it was a mess to begin with. Avi Arad had an unhealthy amount of control over it and forced Sam Raimi to make some ill advised changes that killed the movie. It was financially successful though thanks to the hype.

But now, 3-4 years later Sam is set to return with Spider-Man 4 and has complete control over it so that he can make it however he wants. My dream would be that Marvel strikes a deal with Sony and lets them tie in the next few movies with the new Marvel Movie-verse and the Avengers.

Sam was also reportedly not very happy with the SM3 himself and that is clear. So it begs the question that should he or rather the Studio's consider wiping it off and pretending it never happened ala Hulk (2003) and TIH?
Or would it too confusing for the non-comic fans of the movies?

I think this is a very real possibility especially because all the movies have been made under same director and studio. The reason I say it would be nice to retcon it is so that they would be able to revisit certain characters (say Venom) and story lines or will it seem like they can't think of anything new or original and are hence retreating old ground....

More specifically, it also seems that they are creating a Venom spin-off which again begs the question... are hey actually considering such a movie since Venom died in SM3?

Discuss...

At the very least I would like to see Harry Osborn's character to return and be given a sidelines role as seen with his father in the "Spectacular Spider-Man" animated series

[MaskedManJRK]

My dream would be that Marvel strikes a deal with Sony and lets them tie in the next few movies with the new Marvel Movie-verse and the Avengers.

Sam was also reportedly not very happy with the SM3 himself and that is clear. So it begs the question that should he or rather the Studio's consider wiping it off and pretending it never happened ala Hulk (2003) and TIH?

The problem with trying to make 4 into something akin to TIH is that TIH had a couple more years of waiting in-between then 3 & 4, and TIH had a completely different cast and crew, so that's not really going to happen.

[Venom75]

As far as Venom goes,I think his solo film should be the project that sets things right as far as his character and the symbiote is concerned. Instead of making it Venom vs. Carnage,they should just make it Venom: Dark Origin. Have it be a complete retelling of Venom's origin,how Spidey got the suit,Eddie Brock's downfall;etc. That way,it would give a more detailed and darker version of what Spider-man 3 should've been. So,I think it would clear the character of Venom/Eddie Brock of the mistake of Spidey 3.
But when it comes to Spider-man 4,I don't think the 3rd one should be ignored. It had it's flaws but I don't think it's a horrible movie by any means. In my opinion,Raimi and co. will probably just forget about it and concern themselves with part 4. As far as The Hulk and TIH goes,the first one never really had a sequel and that probably made it much more easier to "remake" it.

[VenomVsSpidey]

no, spider-man 3 should not be retconned.

[SpideyZERO]

Hahahahahahah

No

[Spider-Fan]

:facepalm

[The Squirrel]

It's shouldn't be retconned, but SM4 needs to take the franchise in a refreshing, new direction.

[Symbiote666]

Of course not. SM3 was overcrowded, simple as. It was poor, but not franchise ruining. (See Terminator 3, providing T4 does well).

[LightningFlash]

^^ There are flaws with your post.

1.) I have said many times that I hated Spider-Man 3, and I had NEVER said I wanted a wrestler to play Venom. I did think that Raimi should've found someone that could look the part for both, and stick with the 616 version, so we would have an actual built Venom in the end. And he should've been bigger, yes, but not "slobbery bigger"...just someone that easily looks bigger than Spider-Man, and it was hard to distinguish that in a battle during the night, imo.

Plus it wasn't just Venom: Sandman's storyline and him becoming a giant, then flying away into dust was just idiotic. He grew into a retarded brown Frosty and then Peter didn't bring him in; Marko flew away.

2.) Terminator Salvation is pretty much after Judgment Day. There is no tie-in with Rise of the Machines because of its plothole with Connor's age and the death of Sarah.

[Spider-ManHero12]

:facepalm I second that. :up:

[thejon93]

Simple question that begs a relatively complex answer. Spidey-3 is a very sepcialmovie but for all the wrong reasons. It was supposed to be the original Dark Knight a movie so wonderfully awesome, epic and thought provoking that it blows us away and changes forever what superhero movies can and cannot do...

Unfortunately it disappointed us greatly and it was later discovered that it was a mess to begin with. Avi Arad had an unhealthy amount of control over it and forced Sam Raimi to make some ill advised changes that killed the movie. It was financially successful though thanks to the hype.

But now, 3-4 years later Sam is set to return with Spider-Man 4 and has complete control over it so that he can make it however he wants. My dream would be that Marvel strikes a deal with Sony and lets them tie in the next few movies with the new Marvel Movie-verse and the Avengers.

Sam was also reportedly not very happy with the SM3 himself and that is clear. So it begs the question that should he or rather the Studio's consider wiping it off and pretending it never happened ala Hulk (2003) and TIH?
Or would it too confusing for the non-comic fans of the movies?

I think this is a very real possibility especially because all the movies have been made under same director and studio. The reason I say it would be nice to retcon it is so that they would be able to revisit certain characters (say Venom) and story lines or will it seem like they can't think of anything new or original and are hence retreating old ground....

More specifically, it also seems that they are creating a Venom spin-off which again begs the question... are hey actually considering such a movie since Venom died in SM3?

Discuss...

At the very least I would like to see Harry Osborn's character to return and be given a sidelines role as seen with his father in the "Spectacular Spider-Man" animated series
I see that you're obviously trying to bring up interesting discussion. However, it doesn't really help when you've heard it all before.

Instead of, taking the luxury of, telling people what would be "cool" to do, why don't you give us a sense of logic behind such an idea? How is it even the slightest bit logical to bring back Harry Osborn and his father back from the dead? If you can give me a logical answer to my question, I'll gladly accept it.

[Spider-Fan]

^^ There are flaws with your post.

1.) I have said many times that I hated Spider-Man 3, and I had NEVER said I wanted a wrestler to play Venom. I did think that Raimi should've found someone that could look the part for both, and stick with the 616 version, so we would have an actual built Venom in the end. And he should've been bigger, yes, but not "slobbery bigger"...just someone that easily looks bigger than Spider-Man, and it was hard to distinguish that in a battle during the night, imo.

Plus it wasn't just Venom: Sandman's storyline and him becoming a giant, then flying away into dust was just idiotic. He grew into a retarded brown Frosty and then Peter didn't bring him in; Marko flew away.

2.) Terminator Salvation is pretty much after Judgment Day. There is no tie-in with Rise of the Machines because of its plothole with Connor's age and the death of Sarah.

Once again, :facepalm

[LightningFlash]

Once again, :facepalm

Once again, you pull the Picard, but nothing valuable to say.

[Spider-Fan]

I think I said all that needed to be said :up:

[Doctor Jones]

Only in your dreams will it happen.

Seriously, do you people think it could really happen? :lmao:

[Eelectro 2]

its as simple as spider-man 4 needs to be a great film. whether they use lizard, morbius, kraven, or whoever, as long as it s a good film it doesn't matter.
i like spider-man 3 very much, i would just like it more if they put the extended cut out. they deleted scenes that were crucial to understanding sandmans and eddies motives for what they were doing in the film. i'm sure the movie would have been good if they left it at what raimi originally intended (vulture replacing venom and gwen stacy being in the finale instead of mary jane) but since that changed i can live with how it is as long as part 4 brings the standards back up to where they seemed to be with the general public with s-m 1 and 2.

[The Joker]

No need to retcon it. It happened. It was a terrible movie. But it's done now.

Lets get the series back on it's feet by making SM-4 great.

[Adrian89]

^^ There are flaws with your post.

1.) I have said many times that I hated Spider-Man 3, and I had NEVER said I wanted a wrestler to play Venom. I did think that Raimi should've found someone that could look the part for both, and stick with the 616 version, so we would have an actual built Venom in the end. And he should've been bigger, yes, but not "slobbery bigger"...just someone that easily looks bigger than Spider-Man, and it was hard to distinguish that in a battle during the night, imo.

Plus it wasn't just Venom: Sandman's storyline and him becoming a giant, then flying away into dust was just idiotic. He grew into a retarded brown Frosty and then Peter didn't bring him in; Marko flew away.

2.) Terminator Salvation is pretty much after Judgment Day. There is no tie-in with Rise of the Machines because of its plothole with Connor's age and the death of Sarah.
Absolutely correct, I agree on everything.

And I also find the Sandman part really annyoing (his storyline, the way he turned into giant lameness, everything about him in SM3) and tieing him up with Ben Parker's past was just a stupid excuse for Raimi to bring his favorite villain on screen.

Well, like Joker wrote above, no need to recon it, let's just hope for a good SM4.

[Crook]

I think as many elements of SM3 need to be ignored for SM4. Imo there were so many problems I had with SM3 that I hope to god isn't even addressed with future stories. Raimi doesn't necessarily have to retcon/abolish it from continuity, but make it so that people can go from SM1-SM2-SM4 with absolutely no problems. Just move on and try to step on as little feet as possible.

Please everyone that way. :up:

[venom892]

The only thing that has to carry on from 3 to 4 is that Harry is dead.That's it.

[GoldGoblin]

Sony would make money,the fans would be happy,Raimi would be happy since he would have total control.Sandman and Venom are two cool villains but they weren't in SM3.They shouldn't of been in the same movie.

As much as I want to see the Lizard next,I would rather see them remake SM3 while making SM4 back to back.SM3 could be really dark,there shouldn't be any happy endings in it.

SM3:
-Brother(Pete) vs (Harry) Brother
-Harry should be the main villain.
-Show Harry working with independent scientists on high tech weapons.
-Have MJ get killed when Pete and Harry are fighting,so it will be both of their fault.

-Make Harry the Hobgoblin so fans can see their favorite villain on screen.
-Have Harry get paralyzed from the neck down during a fight with black spidey.

-Show Flint Marko being bailed out of jail,as Flint Marko walks out of the police staion,a limo pulls up where paralyzed Harry makes Flint Marko a deal he can't refuse.

-Show paralyzed Harry,a scientist,and Flint Marko in a room where they are doing an experimental procedure (Makes Sandman).

-Don't show red/blue spidey in the movie at all.
-Black spidey kills Sandman on purpose.
-Show Harry moving more of his body through out the movie.
-Black spidey visits Harry after he finds out that Harry created Sandman to kill him.
-Harry all healed up in Goblin's lair when an alarm goes off.Harry sees on the monitor that black spidey is the intruder.Harry suits up and exits the Goblin's lair to face black spidey.
-Black spidey kills Harry (Hobgoblin),so he thinks.
-Black spidey decides to take off the symbiote.
-Venom cliffhanger.
-No happy endings.

SM4:

Would be about redemption for Pete and for Harry.They were both villains in SM3,but in SM4 they would both be heroes.

-While spidey is back in the red/blue costume trying to redeeme himself,he faces Venom.
-Venom frees all the prisoners in a prison,undoing what spidey has done.
-Crime goes up.
-Venom takes Aunt May hostage.
-When Spidey is about to be killed,Harry(Hobgoblin) shows up to try and redeem himself.
-Aunt May finds out the identity of spidey,Hobgoblin,and Green Goblin when they have a chat after the battle when Aunt May gives a speech.

[Adrian89]

-Venom takes Aunt May hostage.
-Aunt May finds out the identity of spidey,Hobgoblin,and Green Goblin when they have a chat after the battle when Aunt May gives a speech.
Oh come on now, do you really think her heart can endure all of that?:oldrazz:

I think as many elements of SM3 need to be ignored for SM4. Imo there were so many problems I had with SM3 that I hope to god isn't even addressed with future stories. Raimi doesn't necessarily have to retcon/abolish it from continuity, but make it so that people can go from SM1-SM2-SM4 with absolutely no problems. Just move on and try to step on as little feet as possible.

Please everyone that way. :up:
Agreed!

[webhead731]

Simple question that begs a relatively complex answer. Spidey-3 is a very sepcialmovie but for all the wrong reasons. It was supposed to be the original Dark Knight a movie so wonderfully awesome, epic and thought provoking that it blows us away and changes forever what superhero movies can and cannot do...

Unfortunately it disappointed us greatly and it was later discovered that it was a mess to begin with. Avi Arad had an unhealthy amount of control over it and forced Sam Raimi to make some ill advised changes that killed the movie. It was financially successful though thanks to the hype.

But now, 3-4 years later Sam is set to return with Spider-Man 4 and has complete control over it so that he can make it however he wants. My dream would be that Marvel strikes a deal with Sony and lets them tie in the next few movies with the new Marvel Movie-verse and the Avengers.

Sam was also reportedly not very happy with the SM3 himself and that is clear. So it begs the question that should he or rather the Studio's consider wiping it off and pretending it never happened ala Hulk (2003) and TIH?
Or would it too confusing for the non-comic fans of the movies?

I think this is a very real possibility especially because all the movies have been made under same director and studio. The reason I say it would be nice to retcon it is so that they would be able to revisit certain characters (say Venom) and story lines or will it seem like they can't think of anything new or original and are hence retreating old ground....

More specifically, it also seems that they are creating a Venom spin-off which again begs the question... are hey actually considering such a movie since Venom died in SM3?

Discuss...

At the very least I would like to see Harry Osborn's character to return and be given a sidelines role as seen with his father in the "Spectacular Spider-Man" animated series


People have to understand that just because some fans weren't happy with it doesn't mean EVERY fan was unhappy with it. You scrap Spider-Man 3, you'll piss alot of people off, you'll make some people happy too.

And where are you getting all this Dark Knight BS? Dark Knight wasn't even advertised at the time of Spider-Man 3, we barely had anything to go off of.
All the Spider-Man movies have been serious, but have had plenty of humor in them as well. Batman is a completely different story.

[LightningFlash]

I think I said all that needed to be said :up:

Wait, wait...just figured something out...

I wasn't even replying to a post by you, I was replying to someone else...so why the hell did you even reply to me?

I said nothing about Spider-Man 3 needing a retconned; I just cleared out what someone's post said.

So what you needed to say really meant nothing to my post.

So good job on just replying to me twice, which was just you pretty much spamming because your nonsense replies weren't needed.

Congrats.

Maybe go to the Iron Man forums next and there you can try this: :boba:

Yes?

[thejon93]

Sony would make money,the fans would be happy,Raimi would be happy since he would have total control.Sandman and Venom are two cool villains but they weren't in SM3.They shouldn't of been in the same movie.

As much as I want to see the Lizard next,I would rather see them remake SM3 while making SM4 back to back.SM3 could be really dark,there shouldn't be any happy endings in it.

SM3:
-Brother(Pete) vs (Harry) Brother
-Harry should be the main villain.
-Show Harry working with independent scientists on high tech weapons.
-Have MJ get killed when Pete and Harry are fighting,so it will be both of their fault.

-Make Harry the Hobgoblin so fans can see their favorite villain on screen.
-Have Harry get paralyzed from the neck down during a fight with black spidey.

-Show Flint Marko being bailed out of jail,as Flint Marko walks out of the police staion,a limo pulls up where paralyzed Harry makes Flint Marko a deal he can't refuse.

-Show paralyzed Harry,a scientist,and Flint Marko in a room where they are doing an experimental procedure (Makes Sandman).

-Don't show red/blue spidey in the movie at all.
-Black spidey kills Sandman on purpose.
-Show Harry moving more of his body through out the movie.
-Black spidey visits Harry after he finds out that Harry created Sandman to kill him.
-Harry all healed up in Goblin's lair when an alarm goes off.Harry sees on the monitor that black spidey is the intruder.Harry suits up and exits the Goblin's lair to face black spidey.
-Black spidey kills Harry (Hobgoblin),so he thinks.
-Black spidey decides to take off the symbiote.
-Venom cliffhanger.
-No happy endings.

SM4:

Would be about redemption for Pete and for Harry.They were both villains in SM3,but in SM4 they would both be heroes.

-While spidey is back in the red/blue costume trying to redeeme himself,he faces Venom.
-Venom frees all the prisoners in a prison,undoing what spidey has done.
-Crime goes up.
-Venom takes Aunt May hostage.
-When Spidey is about to be killed,Harry(Hobgoblin) shows up to try and redeem himself.
-Aunt May finds out the identity of spidey,Hobgoblin,and Green Goblin when they have a chat after the battle when Aunt May gives a speech.
That's pretty much what I wanted from 'Spider-Man 3' to begin with. With the caliber of Franco's performance in 'Spider-Man 3', I really did wish that he was featured as the main villain in the movie. That's what pissed me off so much about the movie; they wasted great characters, great actors and great conclusions to well-developed storylines.

[NewYorkSpider]

^^ There are flaws with your post.

1.) I have said many times that I hated Spider-Man 3, and I had NEVER said I wanted a wrestler to play Venom. I did think that Raimi should've found someone that could look the part for both, and stick with the 616 version, so we would have an actual built Venom in the end. And he should've been bigger, yes, but not "slobbery bigger"...just someone that easily looks bigger than Spider-Man, and it was hard to distinguish that in a battle during the night, imo.


I don't think Raimi has control of the casting. That was Avi Arad, Grant Curtis and Laura Ziskin.

[Spider-Fan]

Wait, wait...just figured something out...

I wasn't even replying to a post by you, I was replying to someone else...so why the hell did you even reply to me?

I said nothing about Spider-Man 3 needing a retconned; I just cleared out what someone's post said.

So what you needed to say really meant nothing to my post.

So good job on just replying to me twice, which was just you pretty much spamming because your nonsense replies weren't needed.

Congrats.

Maybe go to the Iron Man forums next and there you can try this: :boba:

Yes?

Given the number of ^^, I thought you were quoting me.

[LightningFlash]

I don't care about using "^^".

If one is smart enough to understand without "^^", then good enough.

[The Joker]

Hey Lightning, I have to ask, and this is not a dig at you, but is there anything about the Spidey movies that you like?

[Arcturus]

Should Spidey-3 be retconned?

I would have to say, no, it shouldn't be. I like Spider-Man 3, but it is flawed. But that's not reason enough to retcon the movie. Rather, they should focus on making Spider-Man 4 incredible.

[bryanss3]

I don't think you can retcon movies that were viewed by as many people the saw the entire Spider-Man series. just cause Spider-Man 3 was a bust it doesn't make it Hulk(which IMO isn't as bad as everyone thinks) or The Punisher or Punisher: Warzone(both Punisher Movies are as bad as everyone thinks).

Studios tend to reboot(the movie word for retcon when it comes to super hero movies) when its a movie that didn't make money or got really bad reviews. a lot of people may not like SM3 but it still got a lot of good reviews and made a s*** load of money

[LightningFlash]

Hey Lightning, I have to ask, and this is not a dig at you, but is there anything about the Spidey movies that you like?


Lol, I don't take that as a "dig", so no need to worry, haha.

But, actually, I was a fan of the first Spider-Man film. I was a little mad that there wasn't a Gwen Stacy in the first movie, but that's just nitpicking I suppose, but I'm a huge fan when it came to Dafoe being Norman Osborn. Dafoe was brilliant in Platoon and Boondock Saints. Heck, Once Upon A Time In Mexico was good as well, so to the first film, I was a fan of. It just basically started with Spider-Man 2. A lot of people gave praises to that film, but I wasn't a fan of it. Having Doc Ock say at the end, "I will not die a monster" was not what I thought Octavius would say. And him being a sympathetic villain was pretty much boring, because Octavius is a villain much like Green Goblin: evil, but intelligent. Now Doc Ock was an intelligent villain, he also was only a villain for the wrong reasons; to try to build his machine back up and then only went after Spidey because it was part of his deal with Harry. And then Raimi did the same with Sandman, another villain that a lot of villains care about seeing, and he turned out to be another sympathetic villain. I suppose I understand Doc Ock's "turn", but Sandman made no sense for such a drastic change. And also New Goblin wasn't, at least, "my idea" of what the next Goblin should be about.

I'm not going to say my opinions on Venom, just because I know a lot of people hate the character, but it's just that I think Norman Osborn has been the only character that Raimi tried his hardest to be just like the comic's version. And also, I'm not a Tobey Maguire fan, and I would not have picked him to play Peter, nor would I have ever picked Dunst to play Mary Jane, lol. But Dafoe, Franco and Simmons were good choices, imo.

[Jick09]

I think Norman Osborn has been the only character that Raimi tried his hardest to be just like the comic's versionI so agree with that.

[Papa Burgundy]

lets bury it along with all those copies of the e.t game

[Jack O Lantern]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9488/pulh4.jpg

[Adrian89]

I'm not going to say my opinions on Venom, just because I know a lot of people hate the character, but it's just that I think Norman Osborn has been the only character that Raimi tried his hardest to be just like the comic's version. And also, I'm not a Tobey Maguire fan, and I would not have picked him to play Peter, nor would I have ever picked Dunst to play Mary Jane, lol. But Dafoe, Franco and Simmons were good choices, imo.
I fully agree!!!!

[Papa Burgundy]

Lol, I don't take that as a "dig", so no need to worry, haha.

But, actually, I was a fan of the first Spider-Man film. I was a little mad that there wasn't a Gwen Stacy in the first movie, but that's just nitpicking I suppose, but I'm a huge fan when it came to Dafoe being Norman Osborn. Dafoe was brilliant in Platoon and Boondock Saints. Heck, Once Upon A Time In Mexico was good as well, so to the first film, I was a fan of. It just basically started with Spider-Man 2. A lot of people gave praises to that film, but I wasn't a fan of it. Having Doc Ock say at the end, "I will not die a monster" was not what I thought Octavius would say. And him being a sympathetic villain was pretty much boring, because Octavius is a villain much like Green Goblin: evil, but intelligent. Now Doc Ock was an intelligent villain, he also was only a villain for the wrong reasons; to try to build his machine back up and then only went after Spidey because it was part of his deal with Harry. And then Raimi did the same with Sandman, another villain that a lot of villains care about seeing, and he turned out to be another sympathetic villain. I suppose I understand Doc Ock's "turn", but Sandman made no sense for such a drastic change. And also New Goblin wasn't, at least, "my idea" of what the next Goblin should be about.

I'm not going to say my opinions on Venom, just because I know a lot of people hate the character, but it's just that I think Norman Osborn has been the only character that Raimi tried his hardest to be just like the comic's version. And also, I'm not a Tobey Maguire fan, and I would not have picked him to play Peter, nor would I have ever picked Dunst to play Mary Jane, lol. But Dafoe, Franco and Simmons were good choices, imo.

you gotta understand though, it wouldve been very repitivive if ock was made evil as exactly gg was. theres something about the green goblin thats just flat out more evil than ock...maybe its the suit

[sauronthegreat]

Goblin's suit is the only problem I have with the Goblin, and it destroyed one of my favorite villains.

I don't think Spider-Man 3 should be put aside. Yes, it was a letdown, but I think that a good Extended Edition, or better even a Director's Cut will correct many mistakes. I really hope, while doing Spider-Man 4, Sam Raimi takes some time and does a proper cut of Spider-Man 3 and changes it as much as he can.

In my opinion,
1. first thing that must be changed is the scene when Venom and Sandman meet. That was an insult to us as viewers. Ridiculous and stupid.
2. Second I would completely cut the thing with Harry telling MJ to break up with Peter, that was unnecessary part. He may see their break up in the park and then use it against Peter, but him attacking MJ the same night they had that dance and supper... that was really quick and naive.
3. More of Norman Osborn stalking Harry in the mirror.
4. One scene with Venom, on the roof of the church, him holding the cross (a la Spawn style) on the rain, while the camera is rotating around him, we get a picture how Venom really looks like in the first place. While he realizes, so do we, everything about Peter & Spidey.
5. Maybe completely change the final battle with Gwen Stacy if it was ever filmed... if yes, then definitely change that.
6. More character development for Sandman!
...and all those other deleted scenes that never made up in the final edit (god knows why)

And that would be Spider-Man 3 I personally would be happy with. It would not have a Dark Knight depth, but all those things really irritate me to date when I think of this film.

[chaseter]

If a costume destroyed your favorite character then:dry: If you wanted the comic version to be put on the big screen and for us to take it seriously then:dry:

[sauronthegreat]

I still think it's manageable, but yes, it would have to be much more grim and serious than the version we have. Plastic version of a mask with open mouth and eye-lids that go up and down... I also think that a real goblin look would even flash out more Norman's insanity.

[chaseter]

I hate Spider-Man because they didn't include his web gliders under his armpits:dry: Some things have to be changed but the important thing is that the essence of the character is there. If they can stay as close as they can then that is great. But, I think this is a case in which it was good that they changed the costume and it was more menacing than a man wearing a mask, purple night cap, purple shirt, and purple underwear.

[LightningFlash]

I didn't mind Goblin's suit change.

I think that using the comic's version would not be taken seriously.

[brinomite]

[quote=sauronthegreat;16800591]Goblin's suit is the only problem I have with the Goblin, and it destroyed one of my favorite villains.

Are you referring to GG in the first film or the lame ass snowboarding goblin in 3?...actually to contradict myself, the new goblin in 3 couldve been a lot more asthetically pleasing if the mask had been re-created in a more menacing fashion...but did you or anyone else see the original concept art for Norman's costume??? it was effing amazing! but due to studio budget cuts, they had to settle for the power ranger esque suit...lemme look for that artwork right now and post it.

[brinomite]

^^^ok sorry i'm still looking for that GG concept art bc it was really effing badass. I remember seeing it about 6 months or so before 3 came out on these boards somewhere...hopefully i or someone else will find it. But on another note more pertinent to this thread topic, i'm not sure if it should be retconnected, it's just a shame that 3 wasted such potentially valuable characters by providing them with no character arc (aside from pete, mj, and harry)...it will be a difficult task for raimi to make 4 compelling enough to build off of 3.

[sauronthegreat]

I think I do remember that concept. And it would have worked great.
I was speaking of Norman's Green Goblin from the first. After that I didn't care at all for Harry and his design, because the first Goblin, the true Goblin, was not a goblin to begin with. Harry wasn't a goblin imo, I look at him as Harry using his father's weapons to avenge him. He was not insane like his father so there was no need for a goblin look, after all I am even more pleased with the design of Harry's costume than watching another "Green Goblin" like the one in the first film.
Don't get me wrong, Willem Dafoe nailed the part of Norman Osborn, but when it comes to the Goblin there isn't much credibility to his insanity. The goblin from the comics, even though I don't imply they should have kept the same look, with all those colors, (times change after all) but they should have focused on the things that made the character so unique and deranged as he is. There were a lot of goblins in films ('The Lord of the Rings' for example) and it worked. Norman could have worn a mask and be more darker and changed, more high-tech, but still remain some of his most distinguishable traits and elements.
I don't have a problem with his costume (even though it would better suit Scorpion) but I can't accept that plastic mask as a more serious and adequate solution.

[SpeterMan3]

^^^ok sorry i'm still looking for that GG concept art bc it was really effing badass. I remember seeing it about 6 months or so before 3 came out on these boards somewhere...hopefully i or someone else will find it. But on another note more pertinent to this thread topic, i'm not sure if it should be retconnected, it's just a shame that 3 wasted such potentially valuable characters by providing them with no character arc (aside from pete, mj, and harry)...it will be a difficult task for raimi to make 4 compelling enough to build off of 3.
This one?
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk207/SpeterMan3/osborn_goblin.jpg

[Mistah K88]

I don't think it should be retconned...it was a bad movie, but not "Batman and Robin Kill the Francise" bad. Also, you have to give credit to Venom (as bad as he was)...He was the only villain in this film series who died as...well...a villain. I also guess Sandman should get credit as the only villain that didn't die at the end of the movie...although it was kinda dumb to let him get away for all his crimes he did just because he turned face.

It would be a little harder to retcon some points that were brought up in Spidey 3, like the "Oh yeah, we forgot to mention" Sandman history. If anything, they should just ignore some of the most major screw ups of the 3rd movie.

[Milu]

Ugh people, Spider-Man 3 wasn't even a failure of Batman & Robin proportions, and a retcon is being suggested?

:facepalm

[Episode29]

Ugh people, Spider-Man 3 wasn't even a failure of Batman & Robin proportions, and a retcon is being suggested?

:facepalm

No kidding. There's way too much fanboy crying in this neck of the woods. SM3 was an average, not awful, film. It had good stuff and bad. Lets get on with it and move on to the next. Star Trek 5 led into Star Trek 6. Die Another Day led to Casino Royale. Weaker installments happen.

[Papa Burgundy]

but what about the butler scene!!!!!!!!!!! that was almost batman and robin worthy!!

and die another day lead to casino royale which was a reboot. right?

[Milu]

and die another day lead to casino royale which was a reboot. right?
Except Spidey 3 wasn't an abomination like Die Another Day.

And whatever lame scenes Spidey 3 had, Batman & Robin was far worst. I raise you a Bat Credit Card.

[Papa Burgundy]

ill see your bat credit card and raise you a jazz piano scene. now dig on that.

[SpeterMan3]

but what about the butler scene!!!!!!!!!!! that was almost batman and robin worthy!!
So, you're saying one scene was almost as bad?
Weak. :o

[Milu]

ill see your bat credit card and raise you a jazz piano scene. now dig on that.
I suppose I'll go all in.

AJWpmPGCR1c

Love your name BTW. Anchorman for the win :up: .

[Gilpesh]

The only retcon that should occur that deals with Spider-man 3.... is the stupid retcon of Uncle Ben's murder to include Sandman.

[Papa Burgundy]

So, you're saying one scene was almost as bad?
Weak. :o

the dancing is as bad. as is the random posing in front of the us flag, the broadcaster scenes and the kids screaming wicked awesome!.

couldve been worse though. none of those scenes had rubber nipples in them.

I suppose I'll go all in.

AJWpmPGCR1c

funny enough i just saw that. i lose. i dont wanna subject myself to that kind of pain ever again. time for me to CASH OUT (hahaaha because were talking poker haha)


Love your name BTW. Anchorman for the win :up: .

thanks. i should go back to my anchorman avatar. it was ron lifting 2 weights saying "i did a thousand" classic.

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

The only retcon that should occur that deals with Spider-man 3.... is the stupid retcon of Uncle Ben's murder to include Sandman.

And Harry's death.

[SpeterMan3]

the dancing is as bad. as is the random posing in front of the us flag, the broadcaster scenes and the kids screaming wicked awesome!.

couldve been worse though. none of those scenes had rubber nipples in them.

Stronger! :woot:

[LightningFlash]

And Harry's death.

Harry's death?

I wouldn't say that. Harry dying concluded the whole "Goblin" era of that trilogy.

[Jick09]

And Harry's death.

Harry's death?

I wouldn't say that. Harry dying concluded the whole "Goblin" era of that trilogy.
Also my thoughts.
It was like in the comics, after all. And I thought he was meant to die, either way. It was like, his destiny.

[LightningFlash]

The deaths, both of them, were needed in Spider-Man 3. It's just their storylines that needed some reconstruction.

[Jick09]

Ben's death re-telling wasn't needed. It was for the first movie and only for that.

[SpeterMan3]

Harry's death?

I wouldn't say that. Harry dying concluded the whole "Goblin" era of that trilogy.
For once, I agree with you.

(I've been silently disagreeing for a while).

[LightningFlash]

^^ Well I don't get much agreement with Spidey fans, haha.

And Jick09, Ben's re-telling death wasn't needed, yes, but I was only referring to Harry and Eddie.

The deaths are perfect for Spider-Man 3, it's just the arc for Harry and Eddie that needed a lot of change.

Plus, Sandman's arc needed many changes, thus Ben's re-telling death wouldn't have happen.

[SpeterMan3]

^^ Well I don't get much agreement with Spidey fans, haha.
Ha, I can tell.

[LightningFlash]

Well I just say to people that I didn't even enjoy Spider-Man 3; I even fell asleep when I went to see it at the theatres.

And everyone thinks Spider-Man 3 is the Holy Grail or something, lol.

[SpeterMan3]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I loved the movie, but I went into the theater with the detirmination to enjoy the movie no matter what, and I did. I look past the many flaws and still see a pretty good movie overall. Lol, my little cousin (he was like, 4) fell asleep during the belltower scene.

[Papa Burgundy]

And everyone thinks Spider-Man 3 is the Holy Grail or something, lol.

who thinks that?!??!

[bulletbillx]

I just hope in spidey 4, they undo 3s retcon of who killed ben. or just drop that idea and the character of sandman so i am never reminded of it. that was the worst thing about spider-man 3 and the only thing that cant be easily fixed.

[SpeterMan3]

who thinks that?!??!
I was thinking that as soon as I read it...

but I was trying to be peaceable :whatever:

[Papa Burgundy]

I was thinking that as soon as I read it...

but I was trying to be peaceable :whatever:

not me i want answers damn it!

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

Also my thoughts.
It was like in the comics, after all. And I thought he was meant to die, either way. It was like, his destiny.

Sorry I was am not english and I got the concept of the word "retcon" all wrong... :grin:

[chaseter]

These movies should not be rebooted/retconned for a long time. Even if they start the series over, we will be getting the playful fun Spidey like we are getting and it won't be a dramatic change like Nolan's series was as it delved into darker territory and Spider-Man is in no way dark and grim.

[LightningFlash]

who thinks that?!??!

Every single Spider-Man(movies) fan.

Or at least every Spidey fan that has replied to any of my posts.

They think the movies are a Godsend and nothing is wrong with them.

[chaseter]

And everyone thinks Spider-Man 3 is the Holy Grail or something, lol.

lolol roflcoptr:dry:

[SpeterMan3]

Every single Spider-Man(movies) fan.

Or at least every Spidey fan that has replied to any of my posts.

They think the movies are a Godsend and nothing is wrong with them.
If that's true...
:facepalm



If it's not...
:facepalm:facepalm
I'm pretty sure everybody can agree that SM3 was the most flawed of all of the 3. Hopefully...

[webhead731]

It's the most flawed but it's damn good. I'm watching it now.

[Papa Burgundy]

Every single Spider-Man(movies) fan.

Or at least every Spidey fan that has replied to any of my posts.

They think the movies are a Godsend and nothing is wrong with them.

people say theres nothing wrong with spider-man 3?!?!

i know people love spider-man 2. BUT YOU SAID 3

[Papa Burgundy]

If that's true...
:facepalm



If it's not...
:facepalm:facepalm
I'm pretty sure everybody can agree that SM3 was the most flawed of all of the 3. Hopefully...

yes it sucked badly. i went to a freakin midnight showing of that crap too...

[The Lizard]

Yes -- retcon that sucker.

Flint Marko did NOT kill Uncle Ben. :cmad:

[LightningFlash]

It's the most flawed but it's damn good. I'm watching it now.

Maybe I'm just way too cynical, but I'm not a fan of anything that's flawed.

People should strive for perfection: movies(like Se7en), music(like Buck 65), and television(like Supernatural).

But, no, Spider-Man 3 should not be retconned; let's see if Sam Raimi can brush the dirt off his knees and make a much better Spider-Man 4.

And then in ten or so years, when Spider-Man gets rebooted, maybe Uncle Ben's murder will have its justice....and that sounds mean in a way, haha.

[The Joker]

Maybe I'm just way too cynical, but I'm not a fan of anything that's flawed.

LOL! Your movie viewing must be severely limited then!

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

LOL! Your movie viewing must be severely limited then!

Indeed.

[webhead731]

Uncle Ben's murder was done justice. The message stayed.

Stop making it sound like they had Sandman throw the guy down and shoot him coldly.

Oh wait, you do fall asleep through the movie, you wouldn't know the truth that's told at the end. :rolleyes:

[LightningFlash]

LOL! Your movie viewing must be severely limited then!

It is very limited. I only have a few DVDs, haha.

I just really, really, really hate rectons.

And I hated Indiana Jones IV...not because of continuity, just because they went from the Ark and the Holy Grail to aliens.

That's why Hollywood has been going to Hell for quite a bit time.

Oh wait, you do fall asleep through the movie, you wouldn't know the truth that's told at the end. :rolleyes:

I went on wikipedia the day after to see what I missed :grin:

But I wish I didn't have fallen asleep, because I would've booed at the end and laughed my ass off when Sandy flew.

[NewYorkSpider]

Yes -- retcon that sucker.

Flint Marko did NOT kill Uncle Ben. :cmad:

You're right, it was the gun.

[SpeterMan3]

You're right, it was the gun.
Nah... it was the bullet. :whatever:

[NewYorkSpider]

Nah... it was the bullet. :whatever:

Or the people who made the bullet. :rolleyes:

[LightningFlash]

Or...

Citizen Cope.

Or Bliss N Eso.



I wonder if people would get it...

[chaseter]

Or the people who made the bullet. :rolleyes:
The people who made the people who made the bullet:o


This brought to you by Trojan. Saving people's lives like Uncle Ben since 1950.

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

You're right, it was the gun.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, with guns... :oldrazz:

[VenomVsSpidey]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, with guns... :oldrazz:

sounds familiar...where have i heard that before? [seriously]

[webhead731]

Why isn't this thread closed yet?

I might as well make a thread about how to blink, and it will be just about as useless as this one. :o

[LightningFlash]

^^ See, about time you say something about this thread.

I knew ya would.

But, there def. needs to be a thread about "Spider-Man reboot" ideas instead of a retcon thread.

Can someone make that in the Spider-Man sequels forum?

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

sounds familiar...where have i heard that before? [seriously]

jonlajoe?

[LightningFlash]

I'm just a regular everyday normal mother-****er.

[Secret_Riddle]

Ok, haven't seen a thread on this topic..at least not in the hype..did some searching as well..oh well, if i missed this topic before I'm sure the mods will have their way with me.

Anyways,

Thematically and in terms of cinematic merit, Spider-Man 1 and its immediate sequel seem to fall somewhere in the good to excellent range. The only person who seems to object to this notion is Sam Raimi who has admitted that he doesn't feel like he's made a truly great Spider-Man film yet. Despite how you feel about sir Raimi's claim, it's without a doubt that Spider-Man 3's quality is not in dispute. This movie is a dissapointment in a lot of ways (speaking of course from the general consensus).

Spder-Man 3 made some seriously misguided and franchise changing continuity decisions including, but not limited to:

Uncle Ben being killed by the Sandman.

Extreme surf board Harry.

Harry amnesia.

Harry's butler knowing the truth about Norman and not telling Harry for 2-3 years..instead watching him destroy himself...seriously "wut?"

Peter physically abusing M.J.

Peter becoming an over emotional scene kid.

Peter burning half of Harry's face for no real reason other then "girl problems" and a symbiote induced hormone rage.

Eddie Brock being introduced..and killed off..in a rather anticlimatic and poorly executed fashion.

You guys get my general drift. I know this sounds an awful lot like my own opinion, but I'm honestly just trying to stick to the general consesus here.

If Raimi wants to make a truly great Spider-Man film then it might be best to retcon some of the stuff in Spider-Man 3, would it not?

How close should Raimi stick to the events caused in Spider-Man 3?

I haven't included much of my own personal views here because I don't want to create any preconceived notions before we begin the debate. Destroy my post if you want, I simply want to know what you guys feel the best route would be.:word:

I've attached a poll to keep a tabs on things if this topic takes off.

[SpeterMan3]

I think there is a thread about this... I think.

[Reikowolf]

well what really needs to be retconned?

the only changes I see are

- harry is dead
- MJ and Peter have grown apart.

[Symbiote666]

Extreme surf board Harry.

Harry is dead.

Harry amnesia.

Harry is dead.

Harry's butler knowing the truth about Norman and not telling Harry for 2-3 years..instead watching him destroy himself...seriously "wut?"

Harry is dead.

Peter physically abusing M.J.

Will probably come up/has already been forgotten.

Peter becoming an over emotional scene kid.

Symbiote is gone, he cried because his best friend was about to die or he was about to lose the girl he loved. Didn't need to see it but I wouldn't show up at Harry's funeral to laugh at Peter for being sad.

Peter burning half of Harry's face for no real reason other then "girl problems" and a symbiote induced hormone rage.

Harry is dead.

Eddie Brock being introduced..and killed off..in a rather anticlimatic and poorly executed fashion

Eddie is dead.

Obviously a few bad moves were made, but there really isn't a problem. The next movie will have no Sandman, no Eddie and no Harry (and by extension, no butler) so there isn't really any chance they need to be brought up and explained all over again, especially not when they're trying to get the franchise back on track.

[Secret_Riddle]

Harry is dead.



Harry is dead.



Harry is dead.



Will probably come up/has already been forgotten.



Symbiote is gone, he cried because his best friend was about to die or he was about to lose the girl he loved. Didn't need to see it but I wouldn't show up at Harry's funeral to laugh at Peter for being sad.



Harry is dead.



Eddie is dead.

Obviously a few bad moves were made, but there really isn't a problem. The next movie will have no Sandman, no Eddie and no Harry (and by extension, no butler) so there isn't really any chance they need to be brought up and explained all over again, especially not when they're trying to get the franchise back on track.

Well, I would think that in a sequel to Spider-Man 3..Peter would in some part still be mourning Harry. The whole butler thing is..in my opinion, this franchises biggest embarrassment. That's why for me, a minor retcon, which could rewrite little things like that, is what I would like the most.

This is all speculation of course.

[chaseter]

They retconed Uncle Ben's death...why not smooth over some of the gaping issues with SM3?

[Reikowolf]

i dont think a retcon is needed for this. 4 can be its own story and still keep the events of 3

[Matt Murdock]

I think that since Batman Begins people have gone a bit reboot and retcon crazy. We're seeing possible reboots of Back to the Future, Fantastic Four, and X-Men. Enlisting retroactive continuity is using the delete button, and if it becomes too simple, we'll never get any films of any quality. They made Spider-Man 3, and now they have to live with it.

[Sentinel X]

The only franchise I feel (as of now) that could use a retcon is Alien...(retconning Alien 3) other than that no.


Just go and make SM4...SM3 was bad but it was not THAT bad. Retcon should be done when you have a point of no return (and a remake and reboot would not be suitable either). Also they need to mention the death of Harry because its an important part of the entire trilogy even though it was VERY poorly handled. Other than that they shouldn't mention anything else from SM3. No eddie brock, no sandman, no uncle ben murder twist, and I don't want to even see gwen stacy (at least not in SM4)

[LiveWire777]

SM3 was awful IMO so in this case i wouldn't mind a retcon.

[Venom'sDad]

Really? How can you immediately retcon a film?

[LiveWire777]

I was just so disappointed in that movie -_-' i wouldn't just mind forgetting about it, but not everybody feels that way so i'm pretty sure they won't retcon it no matter how many people complain.

[Eggyman]

I don't think anything that happened in 3 will be mentioned/used as much of an influence. It'll just move on - not denying them, but also not being forced into a corner by them when it's needless seeing as now the story should be fresh and on a new chapter.

[The Joker]

Just acknowledge Harry's death. Everything else in SM-3 is forgettable.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea nothing that happened apart from Harry's death was major or able to effect the next movie.

[dark_b]

Well, I would think that in a sequel to Spider-Man 3..Peter would in some part still be mourning Harry. The whole butler thing is..in my opinion, this franchises biggest embarrassment. That's why for me, a minor retcon, which could rewrite little things like that, is what I would like the most.

This is all speculation of course.this is bad writting IMO. its a comicbook movie realesed in summer. harry is dead. move on. this is not a tv series where the previous episode is connected to the new. this will be a new movie. a new adventure. lets move on.

people will not come in the theater to watch how peter talks about this. they want a fun movie with spiderman.

if they still didnt learn their leasson then its over.

[Venom'sDad]

I think some of you are assuming to much. Each one of these films has in many ways been stand alone entities. However, the continuity of the films, come from Peter, MJ, and Harry's relationship.

With that said, they are not going to ignore events that have transpired in SM3 as it relates to Peter, MJ, and Harry. That's still and on going story. Not only will the events surrounding Harry's death continue; but, the events surrounding Peter(Symbiote) personality change may be touch upon as well. A'la physical, verbal, & mental abuse toward MJ.

Remember, she had no idea that Peter had the Symbiote, or what it is, and what it does to people. All she knows is that Peter is not himself. I see that aspect as playing a role in the next film. They can't just ignore it... that's part of their trial & tribulation.

As far as Spidey and the villain(s) he will face, that will be a separate story all together... as the previous was.

[dark_b]

i think the only continuity was Harry and Norman Osborn. was Doc Ock mentioned?

so now that Harry is dead i think they should move on. peter and MJ can talk in between spiderman 3 and 4. but the movie 4 should be about something new.

[Ace of Knaves]

I think what he is saying is that the death of Pete's best friend shouldn't be completely ignored in the next film. And I would agree with that.

[VenomVsSpidey]

no retcon. Period.

[bullets]

A part of the symbiote is with Dr Connors and I don't think that will be ignored.

Harry's death should be acknowledged , He was always a good character .

I don't think we've seen the last of Sandman.




There is nothing they could do besides making a really good spider-man 4.

[DACrowe]

A thread whining about SM3 in a SM4 board. Noooooooo, there is no thread like this on a Spidey movie board. ;)

BTW Peter burning Harry and hitting MJ were two of the best aspects of that movie as it were the only few times that actually showed black suited Peter growing into a truly cruel person. Also, I'll take "surf board Harry" over green ranger Harry.

Anyway, how do you move on? You don't reference the events much but acknowledge the growth. Peter and MJ should be a little worn-battered and a lot more mature/adult after the events of SM3 and Harry should be dead and mourned. Do we need to go over him dancing in the streets and Peter rambling on about how much joy he took from watching Brock die? Not really and I doubt they will.

And to posters who say "I disliked SM3 enough that I want them to spend SM4 trying to "fix" its problems...." why? If you hated that movie, you would hate anytime wasted on it. And when you have 2+ hours to tell a story, why not focus on that story as opposed to making continuity-friendly concessions to the anal? Make SM4 a great film. A retcon at this point would be an awful lot alike when the butler revealed he cleaned Norman's wounds and knows how he died (that is your basic retcon and it SUCKS). No more, thanks.

[[A]]

A part of the symbiote is with Dr Connors and I don't think that will be ignoredI forgot about it :o

[Sentinel X]

this is bad writting IMO. its a comicbook movie realesed in summer. harry is dead. move on. this is not a tv series where the previous episode is connected to the new. this will be a new movie. a new adventure. lets move on.

people will not come in the theater to watch how peter talks about this. they want a fun movie with spiderman.

if they still didnt learn their leasson then its over. No its not. :huh:

Harry's death should have an impact on Peter just like Uncle Ben's death is. He wasn't just a random villain turn good last minute...he was the 2nd biggest supporting character in the franchise and had an arc devoted to him that spanned throughout all 3 films.
Now, if the writers make this as melodramatic and corny as some of the "emotional" scenes in SM3 it can turn ugly and back fire but they should try hard not to. spider-man shouldn't be devoid of drama just because the 3rd used it poorly.

[SpeterMan3]

Right...

[SpeterMan3]

I think there is a thread about this... I think.
FOUND IT!
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=322488

[Secret_Riddle]

FOUND IT!
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=322488

Oh well, I suppose the unique aspect of my thread is the poll.

Were also discussing several different types of retconning, not simply whether or not it should be retconned in general.

It also may be a good idea to keep this thread alive, as story details will soon be coming in.

[luke1234]

i picked the minor retcon choice. Spider-man 3 was poor but not poor enough to retcon the whole thing. I think the staceys can make an appearance. I think there could be a small scene of Peter reflecting on him and Harrys relationship. But overall keep them minor. Spider-man 4 should be on a whole different level of the past 3 movies in my opinion. Not in terms of SFX but rather higher the intensity and give a sense of feeling that there is much to lose.

[Spider-Who?]

I don't see a problem with Pete hitting MJ (wait...that came soooo out wrong...). What I mean to say is, in the comics, Pete did exactly that (hitting MJ in a moment of rage when not realizing it was her that was behind him). So including that, albeit in a slightly different circumstances, is okay in my book.

[Slipeor]

They won't retcon it, but I don't think they will acknowledge Eddie Brock/Venom, Sandman killing Uncle Ben, Harry or the domestic assault of MJ.

Peter is still responsible for Uncle Ben's death. The gun that killed him went off when the original bad guy bumped into Flint Marko. So had Peter stopped the original bad guy, Ben would still be alive. They can easily gloss over Sandman's involvement.

Eddie Brock but didn't have enough of an effect on anyone to warrant mentioning again. The symbiote suit part was wrapped up too, so it doesn't need to be addressed.

They may show Harry's grave and mention him in passing, but they don't need to. This film can't feature goblins because they have been done in 2 or the three films.

As for Pete beating up MJ and acting like a twit, they implied forgiveness at the end of SM3 and can leave it at that. Though part of me really wants him to glare at her once and say "Watch your mouth or I'll smack you around like I did that time at the piano bar"

Raimi is all about story. Aside from the action, the first film dealth with "driving away those you love to protect them". SM2 was about "not quitting". SM3 was about forgiveness. Expect the non-action scenes here to focus on a theme somehow related to the villian. So if it's the Lizard, it might be "don't judge people by their appearance". I don't know, something like that.

[SpeterMan3]

symbiote suit part was wrapped up too, so it doesn't need to be addressed.

What's going to happen with the part that Connors still has? That needs to bae addressed in some way. I couldn't see Peter just ignoring it, knowing that it is there.

[SpeterMan3]

Oh well, I suppose the unique aspect of my thread is the poll.

Were also discussing several different types of retconning, not simply whether or not it should be retconned in general.

It also may be a good idea to keep this thread alive, as story details will soon be coming in.
Yeah, I know, I was thinking the same thing. Merge?
(Or just ignore the other one...)

[Immortalfire]

Merging.


Next time, use the search function.



Retconning would be a stupid idea, methinks.

[VenomVsSpidey]

Merging.


Next time, use the search function.



Retconning would be a stupid idea, methinks.


:cwink:

[Spiderine]

Many of the events in SM3 don't need referencing anyways. Peter and MJ have moved on. Harry and Norman are dead. And Uncle Ben, whether Sandman pulled the trigger, plays the same role in Peter's life. SM4 can go right into a new story without any hangups.

[Spider-Fan]

This has 6 pages of material...just, wow

:facepalm

[bullets]

Many of the events in SM3 don't need referencing anyways. Peter and MJ have moved on. Harry and Norman are dead. And Uncle Ben, whether Sandman pulled the trigger, plays the same role in Peter's life. SM4 can go right into a new story without any hangups.


Except Dr Connors has an alien symbiote in his lab.

[bulletbillx]

What's going to happen with the part that Connors still has? That needs to bae addressed in some way. I couldn't see Peter just ignoring it, knowing that it is there.

Well, if scorpion is in they could use it to make scorpion into the new venom like he is currently in the comics.

He could even do it willingly by finding out about it after he gets beaten by spidey even with his new powers which makes him feel like his pre-power loser MacGargan self. Then he could bond with it to get enough of an edge to really hurt spider-man, but he doesnt realize what it actually does which results in him going EVEN more crazy and like his thunderbolts version also afraid of the symbiote when it is dormant.

[Dark Victory]

I'm sorry, but this is a stupid question. Even if we didn't like it, we'll still have to accept it happened. Also, not everything was wrapped up in SM3.(ex: symbiote in Connors' lab)

[Spiderine]

Except Dr Connors has an alien symbiote in his lab.
I wouldn't say that is something that necessarily has to be addressed if that sample is not involved in the story whatsoever. It does not hinder a new story from moving forward.

[Dark Victory]

I wouldn't say that is something that necessarily has to be addressed if that sample is not involved in the story whatsoever. It does not hinder a new story from moving forward.

Dr. Conners could use it in an experiment which somehow turns him into the Lizard.

[Spiderine]

Dr. Conners could use it in an experiment which somehow turns him into the Lizard.
Yes he could, but then again it would not be necessary if they chose not to.

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Acknowledge the events but don't linger on them. What was done is done; blame studio intrusion and Avi Arad not Raimi for the decisions that were made. Venom was rushed in and I'm sure Sam had a better story with Sandman planned but had to sideline that idea so Venom could be included. What's done is done.

The dissers and haters really got to let it go. People have made dramatic changes in comics with one character's arc, storyline, villains, whatever time and time before, but the character remained the same and came back stronger and better than ever. I trust Raimi will deliver now that the studio is backing off and letting him have more reign.

I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation as to why he's bringing Michael Papajohn back to reprise his role as the car-jacker. If it's Mysterio's brainwashing Peter into believing he's still alive, Chameleon messing with Spidey's head pretending he's him, or we find out that Flint Marko and the car-jacker were crooks working for The Big Man, or Hammerhead, or Kingpin (name only no cameo). They needed cash and a get-away and were scrambling that night to make their dues for their boss, decided to rob and take Uncle Ben's car, and ended up attracting Spider-Man on their tail and Flint gunning down an innocent old man.

Maybe Sam's got more to tell and show with the origin. Frankly, doesn't bother me, but for some it seems it does.

[BxB402]

I'll re-post this here, since it's also relevant...and I like my idea, lol.

I say if they used Venom again and went on to carnage gradually...they lay off it aside from backround in this one.....and use the classic "eddie brock didn't die...he got blown clear by the explosion, you just didn't see it." Put him in jail, have spidey take down Kletus in the early/ middle parts of the film or something...and have the peice of symbiote connors was given escape(possibly geting let loose when connors goes lizard and tears his lab apart) and break eddie out....they can end it with venom breaking out and a hint to carnage. Make spidey and Venom have to team up in 5 to take down carnage, build on the more humane sides of venom, ect ect.

in 4 they def need to bring out Lizard and maybe shocker or mysterio or Kraven or something...throw Rhino in there as a quick fight and capture early on, maybe coinciding with spidey doing his thing while they set up other stuff(kletus capture included).

Have the papajohns pizza dude(lol, j/k) just in there as a prisoner cameo..maybe interaction with brock or something.

It could work.

[Reikowolf]

boo venom

[BxB402]

boo venom

Big mean venom, not little whiney pussy foreman venom.

It needs to change things from 3...not stick to what happened. If they take everything that went down in 3...no matter how hard Raimi tries, spidey will never be good...untill someone starts the spidey movies all over again.

[chaseter]

No more Venom period.

[BxB402]

I wonder how the villains in this movie will become villains because of a woman.

GG: Peter stole his sons woman.
Doc Ock: Blamed spidey for his wifes death.
Sandman: My daughter is sick.
Snowboard Harry: You stole my woman!
Eddie Brock: You ruined my life and stole my woman.

What's next?

[chaseter]

You let my mother die? You banged my grandma? You totally checked out mah sister?

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

I wonder how the villains in this movie will become villains because of a woman.

GG: Peter stole his sons woman.
Doc Ock: Blamed spidey for his wifes death.
Sandman: My daughter is sick.
Snowboard Harry: You stole my woman!
Eddie Brock: You ruined my life and stole my woman.

What's next?

I think this was only in the video game.

[Reikowolf]

/\ True that

In the movie, after losing his wife, he became obsessed in his work. Spider-Man was only a pest (much like his comic counterpart who did not obsess over spider-man until he was defeated at his hands); the only reason he even kidnapped MJ was to get the Tridium from Harry.

[Spiderine]

I wonder how the villains in this movie will become villains because of a woman.

GG: Peter stole his sons woman.
Doc Ock: Blamed spidey for his wifes death.
Sandman: My daughter is sick.
Snowboard Harry: You stole my woman!
Eddie Brock: You ruined my life and stole my woman.

What's next?
When did Ock blame Spidey for Rosie's death?

[Spider-Fan83]

^apparently in the video game

I wonder how the villains in this movie will become villains because of a woman.

What's next?
actually, I did have a storyline worked out, for Kraven and lizard, that had Mariah Crawford involved in both their origins

[SpeterMan3]

^^Nice...

[Venom'sDad]

actually, I did have a storyline worked out, for Kraven and lizard, that had Mariah Crawford involved in both their origins

What was it?

[Spider-Fan83]

It’s all kinda intertwined so, its hard to tell the story with out getting into full detail…

But, basically the highlights of hoe her fits in are…

She’s is a colleague of Connors, who he turns to, for help with his experiment, more to the point, knowing that she was going on a expedition to South Africa (or where) he wanted her to get a blood sample from a rare species of lizard fro that area, he’s gives her a sample of the formula that he’s been working on, to mix the blood with (as it need to be a fresh sample, as the formula has some type of built in stabilizer)…

When there she meets Sergei, and hires him as her guide, turning their travels they grown closer, even start to fall for each other, blah, blah (all the love jazz)
At some point, they are attack by a lion, he fights the lion off to save her, but, it nearly kills him, he has massive blood lost, yada, yada, yada

In a desperate attempt to save him, she (remembering that Connors mentioned the blood stabilizing abilities of the formula) gives him some of the formula
It works, and by morning he’s feeling better then ever, so, much that he insists that they continue on, she relentlessly agrees, and they finish the trip, ever found the sample for Connors

When it come time to leave, she convinces him to come back with her
Once back in NY she meets back up with Connors and give him his sample (having figured out what he wanted it for, she tries to warn him, but, fails to tell him that he used some of the sample) almost as soon as she’s out of the room, without even testing it, or double checking the sample, in his impatiens he takes it…

it starts to work, he’s arms grows back, but, then he goes into horrible pain, its basically implied that because she used some of the formula its messed with the balance and the lizard DNA because more dominate) as we see his skin start to turn, he screams out, and Mariah still only half way down n the hall, hears him and comes running back, when she get back to the room its to late and he’s nearly full it in his transformation, and is just trashing around the room knocking everything down, she comes in and gets knocked out, or something (but, not before catching a glimpse of what happened to him) the lizard gets away (jumps out a window or breaks though the wall or something)
She is found and rushed to the hospitable…

Kraven who was waiting out side for her, see her being taking out, and goes to the hospitable with her, as soon as get a chance a to be lone with her, he tries to talk to her, she only awakes for a moment, and start screams about a giant lizard, Kraven vows to find and stop this lizard who hurt her…

atleast thats the quick version

There’s also a subplot about the formula (mixing with traces of lion DNA that got into his system, throu, open wombs turing the fight) giving kraven him enhanced abilities, that I was playing around with

[Venom'sDad]

Interesting.... not bad. Nice way to relate everyone, and reasons for Kraven to end up in NYC.

[Styleshift]

Nope. What's done is already done.
I think it was poorly put together, but I don't think the ramifications of the story where THAT bad.

Too many plots going on that ultimately went no where.