Should they use the Ultimate Universe as influence or not

[ironman29758]

Since they're asking things like what costume, what sheild, etc.. I decided to ask all of that as well as if they should use the ultimate universe at all or just make it primally 616 universe. I decided they should include a few things from the ultimate marvel here and their(costume, some parts of personality, etc) but leave it mostly 616 because the Ultimate comics was made to see how the Avengers would look as a movie? any thoughts?

[MaskedManJRK]

One of the things I liked about the beginning of the Ultimate run with Cap is that he definately looked like a guy who was raised in the '30s somehow pushed into the 2000s. Some of it went overboard into a more "American neo-con" territory (why would someone who fought with the French in WWII ask when offered to surrender if the letter on his head stood for France?), he'd definately be suffering culture shock akin to Ultimates then what I've seen in 616.

[DJ Kornphlake]

As long as he doesn't have the personality of the Ultimate version, I don't really care.

[The Purdom]

"why would someone who fought with the French in WWII ask when offered to surrender if the letter on his head stood for France?"

Probably because the French government gave up and surrendered at a point during the war. Hence the stereotype of the French being cowardly and disloyal.

[Shockdingo]

I'd like him 616 with a bit of the Ultimate roughness still intact, not to say I want him to be a jackass or anything close to it. Let me explain, I don't want him to be immediately sunny and chipper, I mean the before he wakes up, the man was in WWII, one of the darker days for the world, so I can't imagine him immediately transitioning into the lighter Cap that we know and love.

[Infinity9999x]

I think the best part of the Ultimates to take into account for Cap is his initial transition into the 21st century. The scenes with him trying to cope were beautifully done, especially when he meets Bucky again and his girlfriend refuses to see him, and the scene with him in the graveyard with Fury. That was great stuff.

[ironman29758]

I think the best part of the Ultimates to take into account for Cap is his initial transition into the 21st century. The scenes with him trying to cope were beautifully done, especially when he meets Bucky again and his girlfriend refuses to see him, and the scene with him in the graveyard with Fury. That was great stuff.
yah I want to see complain about how bad today's movies are and how they curse in every scene

[protocida]

Ultimate Captain America all the way. Only tone down his ass*oleness.

[co2]

Ultimate Captain America all the way. Only tone down his ass*oleness.

Yeah, I agree.

Although I didn't care for the film, I thought the Ultimate Avengers movie did a terrific job with Cap. I also prefer ther Ultimate costume....both WWII and modern day. He looked more like a soldier. The 616 costume is classic, but I thought Ultimate made just the right tweeks where it looked functional and military but is recognizably Cap.

I also think the movie should spend about 1/4 in WWII and the rest of the film in modern day. The man out of place story is what I want to see.

[3dman27]

yeah, i agree.

Although i didn't care for the film, i thought the ultimate avengers movie did a terrific job with cap. I also prefer ther ultimate costume....both wwii and modern day. He looked more like a soldier. The 616 costume is classic, but i thought ultimate made just the right tweeks where it looked functional and military but is recognizably cap.

I also think the movie should spend about 1/4 in wwii and the rest of the film in modern day. The man out of place story is what i want to see.

616 is the wayto go but i agree about the ultimate avengers movie

[Webhead2006]

Well since we know the film is going to be pretty much all ww2(with maybe a closing scene in present day to tie into avengers). I say try to stay more classic to keep fans happy but maybe throw in a few ultimates elements here or there.

[Venom'sDad]

I think that's exactly what they will do....

[Webhead2006]

YEa basde the character majority on classic stuff and then throw in a few of the better elements from ultimate universe is the best way to go to get fans of both happy.

[arivin923]

from ultimates, keep:
bucky as best friend who is a normal soldier, instead of 16 year old sidekick
ww2 costume
"fish out of water"

but thats it, keep the 616 personality, mostly 616 costume (lose the pirate boots)and it will be perfect

[TheVileOne]

Why should he wear that costume from the Ultimate comics? Kids will want to see this and he can't wear that the entire movie.

[Artistsean]

In my opinion I would like them to base their movie more on the 616 Cap, it was the version Simon and Kirby came up with. Its their character, their designs and all that.
Ultimate Cap is based on their Cap.
It would bug me, at least, if they based him on the Ultimate Cap and it would feel like (maybe they wouldn't have actually done it but it would feel like it at least a little) that they forgot the original Cap and Kirby's and Simon's original work on him. (Lee'[s contribution too).

[Panthro]

Yeah, I agree.

Although I didn't care for the film, I thought the Ultimate Avengers movie did a terrific job with Cap. I also prefer ther Ultimate costume....both WWII and modern day. He looked more like a soldier. The 616 costume is classic, but I thought Ultimate made just the right tweeks where it looked functional and military but is recognizably Cap.

I also think the movie should spend about 1/4 in WWII and the rest of the film in modern day. The man out of place story is what I want to see.
Cap OWNED that Ultimate Avengers movie.

I'd say go mostly 616 with little bits of ultimate Cap.

[Webhead2006]

YEa i still say base majority of the character on 616 but do throw in a few ultimates stuff. As for costume i said it before since its going to be in ww2 majority it should be more miltary style outfits from the time period but looks like classic/ultimate captain suit.

[Superhero 101]

I want Ultimate Cap

[Spider-Vader]

I say a mix between Ultimate & 616.

[egarza]

mix it up yo! but root it realism!

[Kent]

"why would someone who fought with the French in WWII ask when offered to surrender if the letter on his head stood for France?"

Probably because the French government gave up and surrendered at a point during the war. Hence the stereotype of the French being cowardly and disloyal.

This point during the war was before the U.S. had joined in.
Any French soldiers Cap would've come in contact with would therefore be the Free French Forces (organized by Charles De Gaulle from London)... soldiers who continued to fight the war in spite of the surrender.

That being said I say go for Ultimate Cap, but make him into less of a dick.

[3dman27]

That being said I say go for Ultimate Cap, but make him into less of a dick.

that might work

[ironman29758]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4676/ua03.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ua03.jpg)
I saw this in the ultimate avengers thread and it basically explain why Mark Miller made Cap like that(plus Ultimates was basiaclly what if Avengers was made into a movie as Mark and Bryan basiaclly explained).

[ironman29758]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4676/ua03.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ua03.jpg)
I saw this in the ultimate avengers thread and it basically explain why Mark Miller made Cap like that(plus Ultimates was basiaclly what if Avengers was made into a movie as Mark and Bryan basiaclly explained).

[cerealkiller182]

I wouldnt mind a few points or costume details to make its way over, but hopefully its mostly 616

[Hypestyle]

hopefully an ultimates style costume.. incorporate elements of the utlimate and 616 personality..

hopefully the bucky/winter soldier saga will not be ignored..

[sabetoonth]

save winter soldier for a sequel if there is one

[3dman27]

:save winter soldier for a sequel if there is one

ii have a better idea
give mr barnes his own franchise

[roach]

This point during the war was before the U.S. had joined in.
Any French soldiers Cap would've come in contact with would therefore be the Free French Forces (organized by Charles De Gaulle from London)... soldiers who continued to fight the war in spite of the surrender.

That being said I say go for Ultimate Cap, but make him into less of a dick.

At this point if it was before December 7th then Cap wouldnt have been in France as The US was still bound by the Neutrality Act

[J.R.]

Ultimate Cap

[B-man]

Well since we know the film is going to be pretty much all ww2(with maybe a closing scene in present day to tie into avengers). I say try to stay more classic to keep fans happy but maybe throw in a few ultimates elements here or there.

I'd like to see most of the film shot in ww2, done abit like saving private ryan.lol. real down and gritty. I'd like to see the Ultimate costume,I think it looks better.

[roach]

I'd like to see most of the film shot in ww2, done abit like saving private ryan.lol. real down and gritty. I'd like to see the Ultimate costume,I think it looks better.

why would it be done like Saving Private Ryan????
Captain America during WW2 was a spybuster. He didnt actually fight in the war.

[Webhead2006]

well whos to say the film wont have maybe a scene or two were he helps fight with a troop or two in a battle between doing the spy work.

[roach]

well whos to say the film wont have maybe a scene or two were he helps fight with a troop or two in a battle between doing the spy work.

in WW2 how easy was it to get to Europe and back, especially when he's sneaking out without Sgt Duffy knowing.

[Rage]

I basically want to see Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty mixed with the Ultimate Captain America scene in Ultimates vol.1

I want to see him before the SSS program attempting to get overseas and fight the Nazi threat and being rejected at every turn.

I want to see him become Captain America through the SSS program and do some spy busting ect... then a mid movie montage of him fighting the Nazis and spys ect... Maybe show/mention the invaders. THink of the beginning of Watchmen. This would allow for a sequel done in WWII (if people want that)

I want to see the movie end with Cap in Europe fighting the red skull and disarming the doomsday machine, Nuke/whatever and being dropped into the North Atlantic and sinking to the lightless depths of the freezing cold water.

What I don't want to see is Cap on his first mission and it ending with him being frozen. The guy is a legend and should have a body of work before he gets thawed out in the present.

Rage

[CaptainCanada]

If they want to use elements of the costume, fine. But keep his personality 616; the last thing the Captain America needs is to be introduced to audiences as a jackbooted thug.

[ironman29758]

If they want to use elements of the costume, fine. But keep his personality 616; the last thing the Captain America needs is to be introduced to audiences as a jackbooted thug.
actually the movie cap personaty to me should be a combo of the ultimate cap and the 616 cap because ultimate cap is a soldier who is out of time which makes sense and doesn't like the 21st century that much and besides if comic like Ultimate Iron Man, Ultimate Hulk, Ultimate Spider-man, Ultimate F4, etc had influence of the movies and the character's personality why not Ulimate Captain america

[Infinity9999x]

why would it be done like Saving Private Ryan????
Captain America during WW2 was a spybuster. He didnt actually fight in the war.

Well, actually, the only part of SPR in which they are in a big battle is the beginning of the movie. For the rest of the movie, the company is sneaking through German Occupied France. They were, in essence, doing a spy-like occupation.

Most of the action is their small band against other small bands of Germans. Which is basically what Cap would be doing. Sneaking through enemy territory and fighting against small bands of soldiers.

[CaptainCanada]

actually the movie cap personaty to me should be a combo of the ultimate cap and the 616 cap because ultimate cap is a soldier who is out of time which makes sense and doesn't like the 21st century that much and besides if comic like Ultimate Iron Man, Ultimate Hulk, Ultimate Spider-man, Ultimate F4, etc had influence of the movies and the character's personality why not Ulimate Captain america
Er, because Ultimate Captain America is a jackbooted thug.

616 Cap was and is a thoughtful and inspiring figure who represented the best of America; Ultimate Cap is Mark Millar's caricature of Bush-era US foreign policy.

There hasn't been a huge amount of Ultimate influence on the films, at least in terms of character personality (they've used some of the modernized aspects, or come up with similar ones, but those are trappings, not the core). The Spider-Man, X-Men, and Fantastic Four movies didn't have anything noticeable taken from those comics at all.

[3dman27]

i concur

[sabetoonth]

what of ultimate universe was in the other marvel flicks?

[Anubis]

actually the movie cap personaty to me should be a combo of the ultimate cap and the 616 cap because ultimate cap is a soldier who is out of time which makes sense and doesn't like the 21st century that much and besides if comic like Ultimate Iron Man, Ultimate Hulk, Ultimate Spider-man, Ultimate F4, etc had influence of the movies and the character's personality why not Ulimate Captain america


You act like 616 Cap didn't have those same problems? I mean, at this point, he's had almost 15 years to get used to the idea of being in the 21st century. When he first got thawed out? All the stuff you saw from Ultimate cap, he went through. (Minus the douche bag personality of course.)

[Anubis]

what of ultimate universe was in the other marvel flicks?


Hulk being a product of the Super Soldier Program and Sam Jackson Nick Fury.

[cerealkiller182]

what of ultimate universe was in the other marvel flicks?

Hulk being a product of the Super Soldier Program and Sam Jackson Nick Fury.

The design of Abomination was much closer to the Ultimate version than the 616 too

[Anubis]

Theres an Ultimate Abomb?

[cerealkiller182]

Theres an Ultimate Abomb?

as part of The Liberators

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7848/802628lokisliberatorssu.jpg

[Triad]

I know I'm a little late jumping on this thread, but to be honest, I didn't think that I should comment - having not yet read the Ultimates. Made me curious though, so I read the first series and am currently starting the second.
While there are things that I'm not too hip on, I have to say that I liked it overall. There were some twists on the characters and the plots that were excellent! (I especially liked the WWII portions [dig the costume!] and their take on Bucky Barnes. Also, it was kinda ironically funny when Fury made the crack that his nose has been "smashed more times than Robert Downey Jr."!)
I would not be totally against using a decent helping of The Ultimates for the Captain America/Avengers movies. It was like it was written to be a movie in the first place.

P.S. - I hear that popular fan consensus is that the third series is horrible, though. I'll find out for myself soon enough.

[Triad]

Also, I kinda liked Cap's personality in The Ultimates. Sure he was a bit of a douche I guess, but I liked the whole drill sergeant mentality and the unwavering ideals. He's not so much of a boy scout as in the 616 universe. He's a little rough around the edges - the typical 1940's tough-guy image ala Bogart or Cagney.
Maybe they could just tone it down a little?

[3dman27]

that would be a good idea

[JamesBuchananWS]

Steve was never part of the Army until the Super Solider Program so he cannot go over seas until he actually receives the injection(s)/treatment(s) for the Super Solider Program that is under the supervision of the U.S. government. He also need to go through Boot Camp just like any other good solider.


Steve tried to join the Army but was rejected due to his (sorry for the spelling) scoloiosis - curve of the spine and a very small, frail frame that would never make it through Boot Camp let alone a tour through war. But that is not to say Steve's WILL was weak. This child's determination and dedication to what America was built upon by the forefathers of our country. This kid loved his country and believed in his country more than anyone. He wished that him alone could take on the war so no one else's blood would be spilled. He knew of the horrors of what was going on in Europe to the Jewish people and anyone who opposed the Nazi party from the one's who were able to make it acrossed the Atlantic over to New York where young Steve was growing up.

Captain America was utilized by the U.S. Army for special operations. Him and a small group of elite soliders carried out the missions that were of the highest priority of the Allied Forces.

[Infinity9999x]

Captain America was utilized by the U.S. Army for special operations. Him and a small group of elite soliders carried out the missions that were of the highest priority of the Allied Forces.

This is why I think it needs to be filmed like Saving Private Ryan. That entire movie is about a small, select group of soldiers sneaking through enemy territory on a special mission. It's basically the same kind of thing Cap would have been doing. Except instead of going off to save a person, they would be trying to infiltrate a secret base or something of that sort.

[eth322]

I believe Captain America should be influenced by the Ultimate Universe. With Samuel L. Jackson already as Nick Fury, they should follow through. They should follow the Ultimate Avenger story of Nick Fury (Sam Jackson) finding Captain America frozen and assembling the Avengers (Thor, Iron Man, and the Hulk).

[Venom'sDad]

This is why I think it needs to be filmed like Saving Private Ryan. That entire movie is about a small, select group of soldiers sneaking through enemy territory on a special mission. It's basically the same kind of thing Cap would have been doing. Except instead of going off to save a person, they would be trying to infiltrate a secret base or something of that sort.
I sorta agree; but then.....

[Infinity9999x]

I sorta agree; but then.....

But then what? You've got me all curious:woot:

[Venom'sDad]

But then what? You've got me all curious:woot:
Well Infinity... I agree with both, you and B-man. I desire a more realistic look at the front lines of WWII, real situation and motivations. Life or death situation, and real comradely & hostility towards each other and locals. I too, would like to see the film gritty like SPR, sneaking behind enemy line, and having encounters from time to time. I like the bad-ass Ultimate Cap... feel it fits to day's attitude.

However, I am conflicted in some ways, because for the most part, my knowledge of Cap comes from the 616. I feel in some ways, 616 caps does not really reflect the world we live in today and the United States does not posses the same inspirring, entrepreneur, strong & independent, protector of the world, spirit anymore. So i'm conflicted, I just don't want the film to so heavily dependent on Ultimate Cap. but, feel 616 Cap and all that he represented, has been lost to modern times.

I'm not sure I can properly articulate my feelings well.

[roach]

thats the hook of the movie...that Cap still is about what america used to be and that we moved away from that

[Venom'sDad]

I didn't know that... I just thought they was trying to combine both genre(616 & Ultimate) into one character for the fans sake. I didn't know it represent the change from "then" to "now".

Interesting....

[Infinity9999x]

thats the hook of the movie...that Cap still is about what america used to be and that we moved away from that

Well Infinity... I agree with both, you and B-man. I desire a more realistic look at the front lines of WWII, real situation and motivations. Life or death situation, and real comradely & hostility towards each other and locals. I too, would like to see the film gritty like SPR, sneaking behind enemy line, and having encounters from time to time. I like the bad-ass Ultimate Cap... feel it fits to day's attitude.

However, I am conflicted in some ways, because for the most part, my knowledge of Cap comes from the 616. I feel in some ways, 616 caps does not really reflect the world we live in today and the United States does not posses the same inspirring, entrepreneur, strong & independent, protector of the world, spirit anymore. So i'm conflicted, I just don't want the film to so heavily dependent on Ultimate Cap. but, feel 616 Cap and all that he represented, has been lost to modern times.

I'm not sure I can properly articulate my feelings well.

Oh, I'm not saying that shooting the film in the style of SPR would mean we would need an Ultimate Cap. Making the film with a gritty and realistic tone doesn't mean that we need to forsake the ideals of 616 Cap.

Take the interpreter character in SPR. He still held true to his ideals and morals....at least in the intense scene with the enemy gunman (the first one, when everyone else wanted to kill the gunman). You could have Cap be like him...without the wimpiness that character had. Except show how Cap has strong enough mettle to stay to his morals to the end (unlike the interpreter in SPR...though I can't say I disagreed with his decision at the end).

You could even show how it's hard for Cap to keep to his morals, because as SPR showed, war is hell, and it changes a man.

But the fact that Cap sticks to his guns shows what kind of person he is. The true "American Hero" so to speak.

[Aesop Rocks]

They're apparently mixing and matching everything else....

[Webhead2006]

I wouldnt be surpirsed since so far with ironman using sam jackson fury, and hulk with some things i not to sure about are probably parts of ultimate/616, so cap would probably also be a mix of both.

[Kurosawa]

It'll probably be a mix, which is a shame because Ultimate Cap is very unappealing to me, while the real Cap is inspiring.

[roach]

I dont have an issue mixing and matching but I think we'll miss out on classic Cap stories if they use the Ultimate Cap version of WW2.... but I will hardline on his costume...IMO it need to be the 616 costume

[Anubis]

I think they could lose the pirate boots though. I also wouldn't mind the Ultimate WWII uniform.

[roach]

the 616 costume and the pirate boots are there for a reason

[JamesBuchananWS]

thats the hook of the movie...that Cap still is about what america used to be and that we moved away from that


Exactly!!! This is what would make the movie more than just another superhero movie.

Utlize this movie to capture the audience and tell them the story of how America once was and why the peopel of the nation believe in the whole idea of "America: Land of the Free, Home of the Brave"

This is why Steve Rogers wanted so much to be a part of the war effort. He did not want to see the world he grew up in lost.

But sadly - he did. Enter Steve Rogers into the 21st century...and to see just how much the world and his America has chaged. Be able to go into the conflict him and Tony Stark have as leaders and as day to day people.

[Infinity9999x]

Exactly!!! This is what would make the movie more than just another superhero movie.

Utlize this movie to capture the audience and tell them the story of how America once was and why the peopel of the nation believe in the whole idea of "America: Land of the Free, Home of the Brave"

This is why Steve Rogers wanted so much to be a part of the war effort. He did not want to see the world he grew up in lost.

But sadly - he did. Enter Steve Rogers into the 21st century...and to see just how much the world and his America has chaged. Be able to go into the conflict him and Tony Stark have as leaders and as day to day people.

I like this idea. I really hope they explore this issue in the script.

Going into another vein, Does anyone think they should set up the possible Skrull connection in this movie to explore in Avengers 2? The one thing I did love about the Ultimates was the Skrull arc in Vol. 2, and I would love to see them adapt that (with the appropriate changes obviously.)

[Venom'sDad]

Exactly!!! This is what would make the movie more than just another superhero movie.

Utlize this movie to capture the audience and tell them the story of how America once was and why the peopel of the nation believe in the whole idea of "America: Land of the Free, Home of the Brave"

This is why Steve Rogers wanted so much to be a part of the war effort. He did not want to see the world he grew up in lost.

But sadly - he did. Enter Steve Rogers into the 21st century...and to see just how much the world and his America has chaged. Be able to go into the conflict him and Tony Stark have as leaders and as day to day people.

I like it as well... welcome to the Hype, where everything is hyped. :up:

[Ceb-Man]

I love Ultimate Cap, but I have love for the 616 Cap as well. I like the WWII costume and Ultimates Cap Costume and those outfits should be used. I like the Cap from 616 personality better.

[Webhead2006]

In the end it will probably have more aspects of classic cap but they will likely though in some touchs of ultimate cap too.