Were 90's X-men comics so bad?

[Darthkush]

I'm tired of reading reviews of the various x-men movies and cartoons where the reviewer mentions how bad 90's X-men was. WAs it so bad? I mean really? Even taking off my rose colored nostalgia glasses, it wasn't bad at all. I think there were bad moments and elements(overkill on having one or two too many X-teams, an overemphasis on fight scenes as splash pages) but most of those problems were happening to just about EVERY major superteam at the time.

For my money, the worst x-men period of all time was 1997-2001. Morrison's run(which I'm not too big a fan of honestly) still reignited interest in the book and urged all the creators to try new things with the books(for better or worse) but those handful of years, the writers all appeared to be coasting. That being said, Fabien Nicieza and Scott Lobdell deserve more respect. I loved X-cutioner's song, fatal attractions, age of Apocalypse and even Onslaught(where we FINALLY got to see Bishop stop the traitor to the X-men!). Anybody else feel what I'm talking about?

[OutcryX]

Darthkush...i am with you 100% buddy. with EVERYTHING you said

[mightiest_mortal]

90s X-Men ruled!!
Well.. most of it... pretty much everything at the end there between OZT and Morrisons New X-Men was quite weak.

[BoredGuy]

Hell, I even liked Trial of Gambit and The Twelve, they didnt really lose me till revolution... so i only saw like a year of sucking... and that was in 2000 right?

[batboy99]

90s X-Men ruled!!
Well.. most of it... pretty much everything at the end there between OZT and Morrisons New X-Men was quite weak.
I quite liked New X-Men...

[sniktsnakt]

The 90's brought Gambit. Nuff said.

[Canemacar]

There was some really good stuff in the early 90's like Gambit, Fatal Attractions, Scott and Jean's wedding, romy that was actually fun to read, and the blue/gold teams.

[Brainiac 8]

I loved the 90's blue/gold team era...it was awesome...storytelling and art.

[GambitXremy]

ya gambit was the best in the early 90's....x-factor was a fun read to...that when i feel in love with pad

[The Englishman]

I loved the Blue and Gold teams, i wish they would be brought back.....

[OutcryX]

i thought the twelve storyline was weak. mostly because of alan davis. its like everything about excalibure, kitty, peter and kurt AND alan davis came back to the x-men and the sucktitude started.

and new x-men sucked. i didnt like the explosion of mutants and mutants taking over in 2 generations(i hate the House of M thing even more though) and secondary mutations are bollocks

[Havok83]

The 90s X-men rocked. The core books didnt go downhill till Marvel forced Seagle/Kelly out and put Alan Davis on the 2 books. The books never fully recovered, but Morrison brought back some much needed life and excitement to them

[Jake Cassidy]

The 90's X-Men were awesome. I loved the blue/gold teams, X-Factor, X-Cutioner's Song, Age Of Apocalypse, etc. Personally, I think that Lobdell and Nicieza are the best X-Men writers ever.

Seagle and Kelly are really good too. Just imagine what they would've done if Marvel just let them do what they wanted to do.

[Havok83]

The 90's X-Men were awesome. I loved the blue/gold teams, X-Factor, X-Cutioner's Song, Age Of Apocalypse, etc. Personally, I think that Lobdell and Nicieza are the best X-Men writers ever.

Seagle and Kelly are really good too. Just imagine what they would've done if Marvel just let them do what they wanted to do.
I loved where they were going with the books, but then Marvel went and forced their characters and plans out to make way for the Excalibur castoffs. Very stupid decision, which I never got

[OutcryX]

me neither Havok. they should have just kept Excalibur going and leave the trio over there in it. it is not like there weren't a million other xbooks..and they ALL were in the top 100 list

[mightiest_mortal]

I quite liked New X-Men...

Thats cos New X-Men was awesom! I meant everything inbetween OZT + New X-Men non inclusive.
The thing with New X-Men was, it was by no means perfect at all, but after so many years of suckitude it made the X-Men fresh again and it felt "New".

[Havok83]

me neither Havok. they should have just kept Excalibur going and leave the trio over there in it. it is not like there weren't a million other xbooks..and they ALL were in the top 100 list
they cancelled Excaalibur after it got good. I liked the team of Kitty, Colosus, Nightcrawler, Meagan, Wolfsbane, Pete Wisdom and Daytripper. But my problem wasnt with the first 3 returning. I hated that their return meant that the majority of the X-men cast had to go. Marvel only let Seagle adn Kelly keep 4 characters and had them share them among 2 titles. Why couldnt their be 2 seperate teams? Both books became the same title released biweekly and lacked any diversity

[OutcryX]

thats why sseagle and kelly left. i thought they were bringing something fresh to the books too. worthy successors of lobdell and nicieza

[Darthkush]

It's funny, probably my only qualm with early/mid 90's x-men is that Nightcrawler, Kitty, and Collosus have little to do.

Another thing that the 90's had was it made Psylocke interesting. When is the last time andybody gave a damn about her? LIke, 1996? I remember the first time I disliked an major x-men story: Operation Zero Tolerance. Iceman and Cecilia Reyes vs. Bastion does not a good story make.

[Havok83]

Claremont gave a damn about Psylocke, in fact too much. Thank god he lost control of her. Prior to him, I think Lobdell was the last one invested in her. I liked the Crimson Dawn stuff, but after that, she kind of faded into the background until Claremont brought her back for Revolution

I loved OZT. That was the last of the yearly crossovers. Iceman and Cecila Reyes were the highlight of that dude. Watching him take on a leadership role and actually be the one to defeat the main villain was great character progression for him, which unfortunetly was soon forgotten. It was probably his best story. Also loved it for bringing Cecilia into the X-fold. She was one of the most interesting characters introduced in the late 90s. I really loved her and think she needs to make a return to the X-men books

[Jake Cassidy]

^ I thought Cecilia would've been a part of the X-Club. It would perfect sense for her to be there.

[Darthkush]

Claremont gave a damn about Psylocke, in fact too much. Thank god he lost control of her. Prior to him, I think Lobdell was the last one invested in her. I liked the Crimson Dawn stuff, but after that, she kind of faded into the background until Claremont brought her back for Revolution

I loved OZT. That was the last of the yearly crossovers. Iceman and Cecila Reyes were the highlight of that dude. Watching him take on a leadership role and actually be the one to defeat the main villain was great character progression for him, which unfortunetly was soon forgotten. It was probably his best story. Also loved it for bringing Cecilia into the X-fold. She was one of the most interesting characters introduced in the late 90s. I really loved her and think she needs to make a return to the X-men books

Yeah, i'm glad Claremont isn't writing an x-men book anymore. He did do classic stuff but his return in the early 2000's was pretty horrific. Between that terrible new Thunderbird(who somehow managed to steal Betsy away from Warren. ick) and those bad overly complicated looking costumes, not to mention dull stories, it was a rotten time to be reading the x-books. Art wasn't bad though.

Still disagree about OZT though. I thought Reyes, Maggot, and Marrow were all unworthy of being X-men and to this day, I find Iceman to be the most overated X-man. I like Bobby as a team player but by himself he's not very interesting to me.

[Gracen1]

is was the greatest period for x-men comic up until the twelve storyline. that was the worst written and worst story of the x-men. everything from x-men #1, executioners song, fatal attractions, legionquest, AoA, onslaught, Operation zero tolerance, where iceman was at his best, all that was the best. the best artists that graced those books with joe mad, andy kubert, and carlos pacheco. nicienza and lobdell were on the money on almost every issue. then the twleve story came along and then the movie came out soon after. then they tried to make the x-men look more realistic with those barf black leather goth costumes. 90's were the best for x-men comics. i wish they can bottle up that magic again. apocalypse was so badass. this decade belongs to the avengers. the new avengers is imo, the best team book out there.

[Havok83]

^ I thought Cecilia would've been a part of the X-Club. It would perfect sense for her to be there.
I never even thought of that. Would make sense and would probably make me more interested in them

[mightiest_mortal]

I don't know... She was meant to be a good Doctor and all, but the science club members are meant to be expert researchers and the best in their fields.

[Be Snikt-Happy]

well tbh, many of the ppl who bash the 90s these days are kids or reviewers who take themselves way too seriously. people who try to stay "current" tend to bash the 90s and anything related to it.

[OutcryX]

is was the greatest period for x-men comic up until the twelve storyline. that was the worst written and worst story of the x-men. everything from x-men #1, executioners song, fatal attractions, legionquest, AoA, onslaught, Operation zero tolerance, where iceman was at his best, all that was the best. the best artists that graced those books with joe mad, andy kubert, and carlos pacheco. nicienza and lobdell were on the money on almost every issue. then the twleve story came along and then the movie came out soon after. then they tried to make the x-men look more realistic with those barf black leather goth costumes. 90's were the best for x-men comics. i wish they can bottle up that magic again. apocalypse was so badass. this decade belongs to the avengers. the new avengers is imo, the best team book out there.


with you all the way there buddy

oh yeah, you forgot Phalanx Covenant

[OutcryX]

Yeah, i'm glad Claremont isn't writing an x-men book anymore. He did do classic stuff but his return in the early 2000's was pretty horrific. Between that terrible new Thunderbird(who somehow managed to steal Betsy away from Warren. ick) and those bad overly complicated looking costumes, not to mention dull stories, it was a rotten time to be reading the x-books. Art wasn't bad though.

Still disagree about OZT though. I thought Reyes, Maggot, and Marrow were all unworthy of being X-men and to this day, I find Iceman to be the most overated X-man. I like Bobby as a team player but by himself he's not very interesting to me.

OZT was badass...i loved what Lobdell was doing, stripping the X-men down to the core....and at first i had reservations about the newbies too, but i fell in love with them all...even marrow...ugly marrow though...not alan davis prettified marrow

[Jake Cassidy]

well tbh, many of the ppl who bash the 90s these days are kids or reviewers who take themselves way too seriously. people who try to stay "current" tend to bash the 90s and anything related to it.

The 90's were awesome. Comics were better. Movies were better. Music was better. Ahh, the good old days. :woot:

[Be Snikt-Happy]

ha yeah. some things are just silly or cheesy now.. but the 90s allowed for us to get away with some cool but quirky things in the movies. now in the 2000s everyones trying to be a wannabe hard ass and everything has to take itself so seriously.

[Darthkush]

I also think that there's a large contingent of older x-men fans(in their 30's) who think that everything post dark phoenix sucks. I'm 26 so 90's x-men was my x-men but does that make me and others my age wrong? Honestly, I think the older anti 90's fans were just being closeminded about the new stuff. There are people my age who hate all the 00's stuff and although I don't like it as much, there's still some good there.

[OutcryX]

because they are all die hard Claremont d_ckriders.

[chamber-music]

Darthkush...i am with you 100% buddy. with EVERYTHING you said

Me too really didn't care for Morrisons New X-Men run

[The Englishman]

Ive got to love the 90's because thats when i first got into the X-Men with X-Men issue 1. I loved the team roster at the time with the Gold and Blue teams and all the great crossovers like X-Cutioners Song, Fatal Attractions, The Phalanx Covernant, Age of Apocalypse, Onslaught and OZT. I stopped reading the books after the OZT arch and didnt start again until Morrisons run. I loved Lobdell (who wrote my favorite X-Man, Iceman with great respect) and Nicieza was great on the other book. The Art was great ranging from Jim Lee, The Kuberts and Joe Mad. Great times....

[Jake Cassidy]

I want 4 X-Men books. 1 by Lobdell, 1 by Nicieza, 1 by Kelly and 1 by Seagle.

I can dream, can't I? :woot:

[OutcryX]

that, my friend is an X-cellent dream

[TwilightPro101]

Can't say I ever had any issue with the 90's X-Men titles. There were bad moments, but every decade has those at one point or another.

Still love the whole Age of Apocalypse titles and how they handled the crossover in general.

[roach]

because they are all die hard Claremont d_ckriders.

hey now I am a fan of the man...afterall he gave us 17 years of Xmen goodness.Sure his new stuff is not that good but respect is due

[Banshee]

Generation X was damn awesome.

[OutcryX]

hey now I am a fan of the man...afterall he gave us 17 years of Xmen goodness.Sure his new stuff is not that good but respect is due

i cant say that i am a fan of his..even back when he was 'good'...he writes the same now as he did then...melodramatic, overly descriptive, as if he were writing a novel instead of a comic. The times have changed though..and he is a stalwart. he may have been offering something different from other comics then that appealed to the readers, but now it comes off as flat and downright uninteresting.

i do like a few of his character creations though. het gets props. but it only goes so far

[Jake Cassidy]

I'm not a huge Claremont fan, but I do respect him. Let's face it, the X-Men franchise wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for him.

My favourite writer is Lobdell. IMO, he is the best X-Men writer ever. Nicieza is a very close second. :woot:

[ParaParaJMo]

X-Tinction Agenda, Onslaught, X-Cutioner's Song, Legion Quest, Age of Apocalypse, Fatal Attractions

Where can you go wrong with this era of X-Men?

[Jake Cassidy]

I think the lineup of X-Titles were the best:

Uncanny X-Men
X-Men
X-Factor
X-Force
Excalibur
Wolverine
Cable
Generation X
X-Man

[roach]

i cant say that i am a fan of his..even back when he was 'good'...he writes the same now as he did then...melodramatic, overly descriptive, as if he were writing a novel instead of a comic. The times have changed though..and he is a stalwart. he may have been offering something different from other comics then that appealed to the readers, but now it comes off as flat and downright uninteresting.

i do like a few of his character creations though. het gets props. but it only goes so far

thats what I said. His old stuff isnt as descriptive as his new stuff. Im currently re reading from Giant size Xmen and the ideas that he had. It was under his pen that X-men had a lock on the number one spot in comics...hell the launch of X-men with Jim Lee still is the highest selling comic

[OutcryX]

i own three copies of X-Men#1 and a few issues of Uncanny before that.. the issues where Jean is shot by a sentinel, emma is killed and bishop is introduced(LOVED THAT ART).

but i didnt officially come on to x-men hardcore until after claremont was gone. therefore i just dont have that old school nostalgic sentiment when it comes to him as others do...now Lobdell and Nicieza, gimme more of that please. with a little Seagle and Kelly on the side...Alan Davis can go suck on dead, rotting skunk eggs tho

oh and i'd like to think the epic artwork done by Jim Lee factored MAJORLY into X-Men's success

[roach]

i own three copies of X-Men#1 and a few issues of Uncanny before that.. the issues where Jean is shot by a sentinel, emma is killed and bishop is introduced(LOVED THAT ART).

but i didnt officially come on to x-men hardcore until after claremont was gone. therefore i just dont have that old school nostalgic sentiment when it comes to him as others do...now Lobdell and Nicieza, gimme more of that please. with a little Seagle and Kelly on the side...Alan Davis can go suck on dead, rotting skunk eggs tho

oh and i'd like to think the epic artwork done by Jim Lee factored MAJORLY into X-Men's success

Im currently rereading the Essentials and loving it. Currently Im on the M'Kraan crystal saga.
While I do attribute part of the sucess to Jim Lee's art, i put the majority on CC. At the time that Xmen number one came out The Xbooks were the number one selling book month in month out for 16-15 years

[Havok83]

Claremont definetly did have a habit of being a bit too wordy with his descriptions. One thing that always bugged me after he made Betsy asian was how in every single issue he had to tell us that her psy blade was the total focus of her TP. It was utterly ridiculous how Psylocke would always bust out saying so as she is fighting someone. Just take a look at this

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2716/psy0.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy0.jpg)


http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3338/psy1t.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy1t.jpg)

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5318/psy2p.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy2p.jpg)

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4390/psy3.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy3.jpg)

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4425/psy5.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy5.jpg)

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6594/psy6.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy6.jpg)


And when he returned almost 10 years later he started that crap up again with her TK katana

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/499/psy7.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy7.jpg)

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8518/psy8.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psy8.jpg)

[roach]

well back in the days before trades the standing rule was every issue was someones first issue. Without that explaination someone just buying the book for the first time wouldnt know what was happening. If you look at the scene where she is standing over the magistrate it could be conscrued that Psylocke killed her.
However I do agree that he is wordy but one of the biggest complains in the hayday of the Xmen was that it wasnt new reader friendly and so the excessive descriptions were put in.

[Havok83]

well back in the days before trades the standing rule was every issue was someones first issue. Without that explaination someone just buying the book for the first time wouldnt know what was happening. If you look at the scene where she is standing over the magistrate it could be conscrued that Psylocke killed her.
However I do agree that he is wordy but one of the biggest complains in the hayday of the Xmen was that it wasnt new reader friendly and so the excessive descriptions were put in.
That doesnt explain why he started doing it again post-2000 when he got a chance to write for her again

[OutcryX]

ok the psylocke montage was hilarious

[roach]

true...but i did mention that his new stuff is subpar...however I hear a series is coming out that he is writing pretty much a what if he never left the Xbooks that im excited about

[Darthkush]

ok the psylocke montage was hilarious
It was. It's something I noticed too. Also of note: Wolverine talking about how he's the best he is at what he does and what he does isn't very nice.

Reading "Generation Next" right now. Not as amazing as I remembered but Banshee was damn awesome in it. It sucks that most of Generation X isn't around anymore and what's left of them isn't great. M is in X-factor(until that book inevitably gets canned), Jubilee and Chamber are depowered and Husk is like some kind of reserve X-man who shags Angel(nothing creepy about that at ALL. Note my heavy sarcasm). The rest are dead. I hated that they killed off Synch. He and Jubilee should've ended up together.

[roach]

It was. It's something I noticed too. Also of note: Wolverine talking about how he's the best he is at what he does and what he does isn't very nice.

Reading "Generation Next" right now. Not as amazing as I remembered but Banshee was damn awesome in it. It sucks that most of Generation X isn't around anymore and what's left of them isn't great. M is in X-factor(until that book inevitably gets canned), Jubilee and Chamber are depowered and Husk is like some kind of reserve X-man who shags Angel(nothing creepy about that at ALL. Note my heavy sarcasm). The rest are dead. I hated that they killed off Synch. He and Jubilee should've ended up together.

is that the other book Claremont is writing????

[OutcryX]

i think he may be talking about the generation next chapters of the phalanx covenent

[roach]

i know he is writing a limited series called Generation Next

[OutcryX]

yeah...nobody really cares about what claremont does these days....i wonder though..if his version of how he envisioned the x-men from back in 1990 takes off...think it would wind up replacing the current cannon?

[Jake Cassidy]

I hope not. It'd be really stupid to negate the last 20+ years.

[Havok83]

i know he is writing a limited series called Generation Next
Its actually called GeNext

[mightiest_mortal]

Its actually called GeNext

Yeah... there was a Marvel poll of what stories readers might want Claremont to write next.

Readers decided they'd like to see a series where the X-Men had aged in real time since their start and their kids were growing up....

....so Claremont is writing a sequel to his X-Men : The End instead.

[javi1024]

yeah...nobody really cares about what claremont does these days....i wonder though..if his version of how he envisioned the x-men from back in 1990 takes off...think it would wind up replacing the current cannon?
if Marvel were ever to do that i would probably have to go up to Joe Q's office and beat him over the head with a copy of the Uncanny X-Men Omnibus which would be taped to a copy of the Spider-Man One More Day hardcover.

[OutcryX]

you and me both

[Darthkush]

i think he may be talking about the generation next chapters of the phalanx covenent

Yeah, I was. It's an very uneven story. Parts of it are awesome and some parts are lame. I enjoyed the team's interaction but the phalanx themselves haven't held up very well. Frankly, I realize now they are a thinly veiled rip off of the Borg from Star Trek. They actually said "Resistance is futile" like 3x during the storyline. It was ridiculous.