Raimi talks of SM4

[Carlo Comicus]

http://www.cinematical.com/2009/05/19/exclusive-raimi-on-spider-man-4/

[Joker]

Three movies, millions of dollars, and he feels he has not got Peter Parker right yet. While I agree with him, it's sad, especially since he claims he knows who Peter Parker really is.

This part really intrigued me:

I've learned a lot of lessons about what people didn't like and missteps that I'd made

Please let that mean MJ will not be the focal point in Peter's life again, Spidey will quip more, and the villain won't be personally connected to Peter again.

[Venom'sDad]

Sam Raimi reminds me of Bryan Singer... they both claim to know the title characters so well; yet, the characters are done so wrong.

[E.Brock]

agreed

[Adrian89]

Please let that mean MJ will not be the focal point in Peter's life again, Spidey will quip more, and the villain won't be personally connected to Peter again.
And if I may add 2 more: no more wimp-Parker please and get rid of Dunst ff sake!:oldrazz:

[Spider-ManHero12]

Cool itnerivew! My god, it sounds like Sam REALLY has big ideas to use with Peter parker for the fourth film. :up:

[spidermilk]

great find, I feel good that Raimi has acknowledged mistakes in the trilogy however I'm stern... new director plz or seriously step up the ante!

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Nice interview. :up:

[SpeterMan3]

feel like the kid that really practiced at the piano recital, with years of comic books, and when I got to my other recitals, I sometimes made some missteps with them. There's a whole crowd there and they think that's as well as I know the piece, but I really do know it a lot better than that and I would like one more chance at that character.
I like the analogy

[Reikowolf]

It would seem he is leaving very little room for excuses in the next film.

I was a big fan of SM despite its flaws
SM2 IMO is one of the definitive comic book movies. It really showed people what could be done and what's more, built a foundation that allowed other franchises to move forward.
SM3 was a mixed bag which I had been very vocal about my concern regarding the addition of Venom. Raimi looked very tired on set and who wouldn't be after almost 8 years working on the franchise. Good to know he recognizes this. In his defense, it wasn't just him that made the movie, but ultimately he is the one that takes the most critique.

Overall, I feel he is a talented director who is making films for himself as well as the fans. The fact that SM3 was a blockbuster has alotted him this chance at SM4; but it has become very clear that the fans will not be as forgiving this time around. I have been a fan of Raimi's work for a while and I am excited to see DMTH, as I will be to see SM4, this article just makes me expect great things as his passion for the source material seems to be rekindled.

As another great comic book movie onces stated.
"why do we fall down?"
"So we can learn to pick ourselves up again."

[GoldGoblin]

Raimi,instead of wasting precious minutes,even seconds of the movie on cheesy scenes that hurt the movie,use every second to make the characters better.

[Wiseman]

When Spider-man 2 came out I don't remember anyone on these boards thinking Raimi needed to be replaced or that he didn't get the characters, except The Slag. In fact he wrote an open letter to Raimi on these boards telling him to move on and let someone else direct SM3 and he was ripped by a lot of posters. Now, I'll agree SM3 sucked, and I've always thought the movies weren't cast very well(Kirsten Dunst, ugh) but Raimi was the first director to take a comic book movie mainstream and make it successful without sacrificing what made the charactor great in the comics. I mean the first made 400 million for a reason, and the second is widely considered one of the best sequels ever. And lets face it, the third movie in almost every trilogy sucks, at least with Spider-man it wasn't as bad as the other comic book movies with 3 at the end

[Joker]

And if I may add 2 more: no more wimp-Parker please and get rid of Dunst ff sake!:oldrazz:

Oh yes, those too. Especially getting rid of Dunst.

[TheSlag]

Raiirmi knows Peter Parker, the character???

Really....

I am still thinking Raimi does not know "any" of the characters. Starting with the 2 leading actors, Peter and Spider-Man, and going all the way down to the most minor of support character.

Made some mistakes you say Raimi.. YOU DON'T SAY!?!?!? *sheesh*

Let us "count the ways" shall we:

1) Spider-Man day in New York. You got to be kidding me. Did you read the same comic I did, grew up reading and LOVING IT??? Loving that ole Peter Parker luck, the thankless lack of gratitude he got for being Spidey. Yes, in all fairness, you have given us tid bits here and there, but only tid bits. You have NEVER truely flushed out that aspect of the character.. PERIOD. You have mostly tried to represent this in a co-dependent character and relationship with MJ. All about a girl.. That Girl! lol.. I spit on your grave, as you have spit on Gwen's grave with your embracing of that storyline.

Yeah sure, the first movie, we realized that it was a caclulated risk, but yet, you INTENSIFY that story line in SM2 and SM3. You throw more shame by taking one of Spidey's greatest Story Arc's (Spidey NO more).. and hang it all around a weepy Peter, basing it on the fact that "he cannot have the girl he loves"... HAVE YOU READ THE FRICKIN COMICS AT ALL?????

2) Emo Spider-Man. OK, maybe this was a sick twisted (perverted) take on the symbiote and it's effect on Peter. BUT.. to me, that just shows me you do not understand the character of the symbiote, along with Peter Parker. Do you think Peter is simply ALL about the gril? Peter comes off as a selfish, childish cry-baby. Especially when you concentrate on that storyline so much, and in doing so, sacrifice the rich supporting cast that is, and always will be the golden years of the Spider-Man comics. Aunt May is no more that an afterthought in your perverse world. We do not see any of the rich paint brushes of that character we saw in the comics. She loves Spider-Man in the movies, where she did not in the comics. We see in the comics, where the most important person in Peter's life is his Aunt May.. period.. bar none. I do NOT get that feeling with the movie version at all. All about a girl.. that girl.. I spit on that storyline. :cmad:

3) Changing the killer of Uncle Ben's to Sandman, to simply try to further an already weak storyline to begin with, with the symbiote. Piss poor writing and directing. Giving another "personal connection" to the villain with Peter. By doing this, you ROB the greatness that is the storyline of Dr. Connors/Lizard. But why should you care? You have not even attempted to develop that character or that storyline one iota. Dr. Connors is no more that a footnote in the movie world of Spider-Man. Simply a teacher, with one of his better students at best. And the Connor's clan.. MIA (Missing in Action). Zero development. Great setup.. NOT! And Sandman can fly, can grow to bigger than a T-Rex size and growls/roars like a T-Rex? And worse of all, he is really just a misunderstood guy. BUNK! This sympathetic approach for ALL villains, AGAIN, basically robs Connors/Lizard of his true birthright in the Spider-Man verse.

4) GweMJ (that vile creation of yours). Again, maybe the first movie I could cut you SOME slack, calculating the risk and not knowing (for sure) that there was future for the franchise. BUT, I thought you were supposed to be the champion of the franchise. The one who stood up for the character(s) and the storylines? So EVEN if I cut you some slack for the first "rendering" of the GweMJ atrosity, WHEN you continue it in SM2 and SM3, and MAKE it the FOCAL POINT of the stories AGAIN, I cut you NONE! Casting aside... AGAIN, Have you READ the frickin comics? Where is MJ a co-dependent whiny, clingy, grasp any man to fill a void character that you make her out to be in the movie version? I'll tell you... SHE IS NOT!!!

5) Storylines. The greatest story arc (Gwen's death) at the hands of Goblin. MIA. Capt Stacy's death during a battle between Spidey and Ock... MIA. Gwen blaming Spider-Man, hating Spider-Man for the death of her father.. MIA. Aunt May hating/mistrusting Spider-Man.. causing more stress in Peter's life. MIA.

It all basically boils down to "paying respect" to these great storylines. And you fail. Miserably IMO. Instead, you give us Saturday Nite (Staying Alive) Peter in SM2... you give us EMO Jazz Hall Dancing Peter in SM3. You give us FLUFF.. when the crux of Spider-Man's greatest arcs go.. "say it with me".. MIA!

I can only dream of the day when you go MIA from the Spider-Man franchise, and we get a fresh start.. and a "true" Director that KNOWS and truely LOVES and respects the Spider-Man verse (Story and Characters).

"Nuff Said"

[batman11]

Wow. That would make a great speech. LOL :woot:

[craigdbfan]

How about if he takes a deeper look at Peter Parker's alter ego Spider-Man instead of another round of more Peter Parker escapades? Thats who he forgot to develop in the third film.

I honestly have had enough of Raimi's interpretation of the character (Peter Parker). Its time to focus on the mask (Spider-Man) more. He needs to concentrate more on Spider-Man though this time around.

At least he acknowledges his mistakes on the third film and it honestly seems that he wants to improve on the character.

As long as we don't get the dancing, emo, and flat out annoying Peter Parker from the third film, I'll be happy.

[Frodo]

I'm gonna have to wait and see before I make a judgement. If the villian turns out to be Morbuis I'm gonna wait for cable.

[mojo-x]

I hope Ramie can come up with a better climax’s then Spidey haven to rescue MJ. Is it just me or did the ending to S3 seem like they realized the movie was getting kind of long and they had to come up with an ending and some one said why not have the villains kidnap MJ, it worked so well for the first two.

[DACrowe]

Mmm.

I am not going to waste time watching fanboys deride him. It is obvious he will not get an inch with the fan community after SM3 until SM4 comes out. If it is a good movie he will be beloved again and SM3 will be a "misstep."

I do agree he has made mistakes and has never gotten the character "just right" and does miss some aspects (Peter's growing confidence and Spidey's smart-assedry mostly), but I won't say he has done a bad job either. He made two good movies, one of which I thought was very good.

I just find it funny when SM2 came out Raimi could do no wrong and fanboys absolutely loved him. I remember in one of those pointless "who should replace Nolan" threads in the Batboards, fanboys started salivating at Raimi doing it because "the trailer for SM3 looks like teh most epic."

Now, he says he wants to make a fourth one to redeem the third and go a new direction and fans want to kick dirt in his eye because he "raped their childhood."

:rolleyes:

Hopefully when 2011 rolls around Raimi will release a good Spidey flick and can retire from the genre as the fanboys try and perform oral in his direction again.

We'll see.

[DACrowe]

P.S.

Slag, I liked Spidey No More better in the movie.....

:oldrazz:

Excuse me now, I'm going to run as fast as I can in the other direction.

[MAN O STEEL]

Mmm.

I am not going to waste time watching fanboys deride him. It is obvious he will not get an inch with the fan community after SM3 until SM4 comes out. If it is a good movie he will be beloved again and SM3 will be a "misstep."

I do agree he has made mistakes and has never gotten the character "just right" and does miss some aspects (Peter's growing confidence and Spidey's smart-assedry mostly), but I won't say he has done a bad job either. He made two good movies, one of which I thought was very good.

I just find it funny when SM2 came out Raimi could do no wrong and fanboys absolutely loved him. I remember in one of those pointless "who should replace Nolan" threads in the Batboards, fanboys started salivating at Raimi doing it because "the trailer for SM3 looks like teh most epic."

Now, he says he wants to make a fourth one to redeem the third and go a new direction and fans want to kick dirt in his eye because he "raped their childhood."

:rolleyes:

Hopefully when 2011 rolls around Raimi will release a good Spidey flick and can retire from the genre as the fanboys try and perform oral in his direction again.

We'll see.





AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lmao:, BEST POST EVER!. I officially love you dude. Your point is spot on, funny how quick fanboys can turn on ya isn't it?. I admitt I disliked certain parts of SM3 but overall I enjoyed it for what it was and decided to just move on & look forward to a 4. Some ppl just need to chill & get a life & realise how small the failure of one movie really is.





Steve

[AntMan]

Some of you guys are crazy!

I absolutely loved the first two Spiderman movies, and while I did not like the third movie, at least it was somewhat entertaining in some parts. Be glad you have it so good, you could be a Superman fan like me.

:sleepy:

Need I say more?

[dark_b]

spiderman 3 made a lot of money. i dont think they will change a lot.plus Raimi loves hes peter parker and he really wants Dunst back and have her like in all 3 movies.

i so i dont expect a change. i think it will be again only love drama and crying.

[dark_b]

its nice that he made Drag me to hell. so its note veryday only about spiderman. he had a lot of fun making Drag me to hell so this could help. he needs to understand that SM4 needs to be fun and not ''drama''.

[Joker]

Wow. That would make a great speech. LOL :woot:

Especially since everything he said is true!

spiderman 3 made a lot of money. i dont think they will change a lot.

Raimi had no creative control over Spider-Man 3. He has full creative control over Spider-Man 4.

I expect to see many changes. Hopefully for the better.

[dark_b]

Raimi had no creative control over Spider-Man 3. He has full creative control over Spider-Man 4.

I expect to see many changes. Hopefully for the better.

after two spiderman movies that a lot of people liked and made a lot of money they didnt give him creative control? of course not :hehe:

[Frodo]

Mmm.

I am not going to waste time watching fanboys deride him. It is obvious he will not get an inch with the fan community after SM3 until SM4 comes out. If it is a good movie he will be beloved again and SM3 will be a "misstep."

I do agree he has made mistakes and has never gotten the character "just right" and does miss some aspects (Peter's growing confidence and Spidey's smart-assedry mostly), but I won't say he has done a bad job either. He made two good movies, one of which I thought was very good.

I just find it funny when SM2 came out Raimi could do no wrong and fanboys absolutely loved him. I remember in one of those pointless "who should replace Nolan" threads in the Batboards, fanboys started salivating at Raimi doing it because "the trailer for SM3 looks like teh most epic."

Now, he says he wants to make a fourth one to redeem the third and go a new direction and fans want to kick dirt in his eye because he "raped their childhood."

:rolleyes:

Hopefully when 2011 rolls around Raimi will release a good Spidey flick and can retire from the genre as the fanboys try and perform oral in his direction again.

We'll see.

Well if there's no music and dance numbers it'll be a start.Lol. The truth is fanboys will complain no matter what. However most people aside from fanboys thought SM3 was quite bad .

[Joker]

after two spiderman movies that a lot of people liked and made a lot of money they didnt give him creative control? of course not

"They really gave me a tremendous amount of control on the first two films, actually. But then there were different opinions on the third film and I didn't really have creative control, so to speak."

Link: http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2009/03/raimi-i-will-have-total-creati.html

:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

[dark_b]

Link: http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2009/03/raimi-i-will-have-total-creati.html

:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:why are yo usmiling? i know that he said this. doesnt mean its true. :huh:

[Joker]

why are yo usmiling? i know that he said this. doesnt mean its true. :huh:

Hang on, you think he was lying about that?

[Tony Stark]

The only problem I see in the Spider-man movies, is that he revolved the whole trillogy around Peter and MJ. While that worked for the first two movies, it didn't work for the third.

I think Raimi did get Peter Parker right, in that Peter is a guy who can never have what he really wants because of what he knows he has to do. He also understands that Peter is Spider-man, out of tremendous guilt and remorse.

Spider-man 3 wasn't a horrible movie by any stretch of the immagination, but it was a good idea wrapped in poor execution. In fact the stuff that really works, is some of the best Spider-man stuff we've seen. The stuff that doesn't work, comes off an corny and lame. I've always maintained, the movie would have jumped 10% on rating points if they had gotten a real singer to dub the parts for Dunst, and if they had cut the play by play from the reporter durring the final battle.

I also understand that having Dunst sing may have been intentional on Rami's part, because the character is not meant to be very good. After all she does get fired from the show. I think he just underestimated the groan factor.

One thing I want to see is to drop all the pretenses of being a dark film. Spider-man is not dark, he never was dark, he never will be dark. Now what will work is that Spider-man fights alot of monsters. What Raimi did with the Doc Ock tentacle awakening scene was brilliant. That's scary and suspensful, but he didn't make Spider-man dark.

In any case, I hope in SM4 we go back to the fun sense of adventure that was in SM2, and lose the drearyness that was nothing but a drag on SM3. Having said that, SM3 is a much better film than most give it credit for.

[DACrowe]

Well if there's no music and dance numbers it'll be a start.Lol. The truth is fanboys will complain no matter what. However most people aside from fanboys thought SM3 was quite bad .

That post is not defending SM3. I actually tend to think the movie wasn't as bad as people say and to quote Rollingstone, it had a pulse of humanity under all the crap. I would call SM3 very flawed, possibly even mediocre, but quite entertaining and still better than most of the schlock that came out in summer 2007 (Shrek 3, Pirates 3, FF2 and yes, Transformers, :wow: ). But I've long accepted my opinion is in the vast minority on that picture.

My point was how hypocritical many in the fan community are and how zealous and overly-eager to hate to the point of alienation that they can be. As I stated, I honestly recall how SM2 was "perfect" (it wasn't) to many fans and how Raimi could do no wrong. SM3 had a few kickass trailers and there were threads saying he should direct Batman when Nolan left! :eek: He was a golden boy like Singer was before Superman Returns (which was worse than SM3, imo) and what Nolan is now. God help Nolan if the fan community doesn't like or is disappointed by Batman 3.

I mean right now Raimi is promoting Drag Me to Hell, his return to horror that by all early reviews from professional critics to horror fans on boards and sites like this are calling phenomenal, supremely entertaining, one of the best horror movies in years, etc., etc.

Yet, if you read the comment sections in ANY of those reviews at least half the comments are "Raimi suckz," "Spiderman3 sucked, "SM3 was teh worst movie ever," "Raimi has never made a good movie and he raped Venom," "What he did to Venom was shameful," "Raimi ****ed up Spider-Man and should never make movies again," "He should be executed."

etc. etc.

It is ****ing ridiculous. Drag Me to Hell has nothing to do with Spidey or Venom and yet those are most of the comments. That tells me fanboys will never forgive the man unless SM4 is actually good. If that happens then SM3 will be the Temple of Doom or Return of the Jedi of the franchise (though both of those movies were better) and Raimi will be a geek icon again.

But right now, even if his new horror movie is good, people are vowing not to see it because of devotion to defending the honor of the fictious Venom character. Whether he gets Spidey or not (I personally think he gets more right than not and gets the spirit and big picture if not the details), Spider-Man 1 was a good movie and the reason for so many new superhero/origin movies including the beloved BB reboot and SM2 is still, IMO, one of the top 2 or 3 superhero movies ever made. But for saying that, I "wont get" Spidey to some others as well, now.

[TheSlag]

P.S.

Slag, I liked Spidey No More better in the movie.....

:oldrazz:

Excuse me now, I'm going to run as fast as I can in the other direction.


LOL.. no need to run. Just your opinion. But, just to make sure we both understand, the Spidey No More is a great storyline. I just don't think to once again tie it back to the "All about that Girl" is an injustice to the greatness of that storyline, and the comic storyline ties back to the character that is Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

To tie it to the all about that girl.. Cheapens it IMO.

And I know, they hinted at other aspects of reasons for Spidey No More, more than juzt "that girl".. but when you paint a flea on big butt of the 800 pound Gorilla (that is the ALL ABOUT THAT GIRL).. it is just hard to appreciate the flea.

lol.. *think I got an itch I cannot reach now*

[TheSlag]

...he needs to understand that SM4 needs to be fun and not ''drama''.


I respecfully, but totally, disagree. But I will say he needs to embrace some of the greater storylines (which are very dark) from the Spider-Man comics. He needs to give us real drama, and not this WB Gossip Girl Crap Drama.

Sheesh... I think he has watched too many Smallvilles. :down:

[TheSlag]

Well if there's no music and dance numbers it'll be a start.Lol.

LOL.. Great post! And sadly.. So true. It is sad when the franchise, and it's sole protector of the faith (Raimi), has gotten to that point, where you're simply praying that Peter Parker a) does not dance b) does not strut his stuff, c) does not rescue another person from a burning building (sorry.. digress there :cwink:)... and does not pull his constipated crying face in the movie. Sheesh

Maybe I need to go back and read the comics.. guess I missed the special Saturday Night Fever edition of Spider-Man/Peter Parker unlimited. :woot:

[Demogoblin]

While I dont necessarily want SM4 to be dark, I would like to see less cheese. No more "Rain Drops On My Head," cute interludes to a kid pulling a fast one on JJJ in the middle of a fight scene or a villain being connected to the hero. (Dr Connors being the exception.) I have no problem with Kirsten but she needs a more mature role than just the suffering girlfriend and kidnap victim. I'm sick to death of her needing to be saved at the end of each film. How about the Lizard is in the subway tunnel with some trapped commuters while Kraven hunts both Lizzy and Spidey.

[Venom'sDad]

Raimi is going to do what Raimi does

[bulletbillx]

Mmm.

I am not going to waste time watching fanboys deride him. It is obvious he will not get an inch with the fan community after SM3 until SM4 comes out. If it is a good movie he will be beloved again and SM3 will be a "misstep."

I do agree he has made mistakes and has never gotten the character "just right" and does miss some aspects (Peter's growing confidence and Spidey's smart-assedry mostly), but I won't say he has done a bad job either. He made two good movies, one of which I thought was very good.

I just find it funny when SM2 came out Raimi could do no wrong and fanboys absolutely loved him. I remember in one of those pointless "who should replace Nolan" threads in the Batboards, fanboys started salivating at Raimi doing it because "the trailer for SM3 looks like teh most epic."

Now, he says he wants to make a fourth one to redeem the third and go a new direction and fans want to kick dirt in his eye because he "raped their childhood."

:rolleyes:

Hopefully when 2011 rolls around Raimi will release a good Spidey flick and can retire from the genre as the fanboys try and perform oral in his direction again.

We'll see.

I dont want him to retire from the genre even though I didnt like Spidey 3 that much. I actually wish he'd make a real Darkman sequel with Liam Neeson because I didnt really like the DTV sequels, and Neeson was badass in Taken.

[dark_b]

I respecfully, but totally, disagree. But I will say he needs to embrace some of the greater storylines (which are very dark) from the Spider-Man comics. He needs to give us real drama, and not this WB Gossip Girl Crap Drama.

Sheesh... I think he has watched too many Smallvilles. :down:you dont understand. i didnt mean Bay ''fun'' or Mummy fun.
there were movies realesed that were smart fun.

if they go full on drama and crying it will bomb IMO.

[dark_b]

Hang on, you think he was lying about that?well did he say that he did a movie that they wanted?

look i saw a video on youtube( i can not find it) where Raimi says that hes friend Arad told him that fans like very much venom and thats why he used him. if he goes on camera saying this and is lying then he is a ''tool'' and gets no respect from me. if you make spiderman 1 and 2 you know very good that you can greenlight spiderman 3 without venom.

just because he is now a softy and can not say NO to arad that doesnt mean that it was not hes movie.

and all the dancing,.... everything was Raimis style.

[Milu]

Sheesh... I think he has watched too many Smallvilles. :down:
Heh, didn't one of the writers from Smallville write a draft for Spidey 2? The one with a young Doc Ock competing for MJ's affections?

[Immortalfire]

Good gosh Sam, enough of this "movie about Peter Parker" crap. Last time you tried that (being S-M3), Peter spent about 90% of the movie out of costume, or maskless.

The title "Spider-Man" is not there by accident!

[dark_b]

Good gosh Sam, enough of this "movie about Peter Parker" crap. Last time you tried that (being S-M3), Peter spent about 90% of the movie out of costume, or maskless.

The title "Spider-Man" is not there by accident!and all of this happens because they are reading the wrong complaints.

some people still think that the only complaint was venom hhhhh?:hehe:


i think people had a bigger problem with peter crying all the time,EMO peter.MJ nonstop noooooooooooooooonstop *****ing and complaing about everything and of course changing. hes uncles dead.

[dark_b]

is it cliche to end the movie with the superhero ? maybe. but its a summerblockbuster and its a big budget movie. end the movie with spiderman running on rooftops and swinging.

if you end it with peter and MJ dancing then people will complain.

[Immortalfire]

is it cliche to end the movie with the superhero ? maybe. but its a summerblockbuster and its a big budget movie. end the movie with spiderman running on rooftops and swinging.

if you end it with peter and MJ dancing then people will complain.

First Spidey had the best ending, the swinging and his eye blacking out the screen. On opening night, May 3 2002...I wept. *single tear*

[Reikowolf]

Spider-Man 2's ending had such a great set up for 3

Harry finds out the truth about his father.

Spider-Man finally having a balance in his life.... as Mary Jane watches him swing away... a look of worry dawns on her.

[DACrowe]

LOL.. no need to run. Just your opinion. But, just to make sure we both understand, the Spidey No More is a great storyline. I just don't think to once again tie it back to the "All about that Girl" is an injustice to the greatness of that storyline, and the comic storyline ties back to the character that is Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

To tie it to the all about that girl.. Cheapens it IMO.

And I know, they hinted at other aspects of reasons for Spidey No More, more than juzt "that girl".. but when you paint a flea on big butt of the 800 pound Gorilla (that is the ALL ABOUT THAT GIRL).. it is just hard to appreciate the flea.

lol.. *think I got an itch I cannot reach now*

Oh I appreciate the story a lot in the book. But to me it is more of an amazing concept that has been copied by every other character's writers under the sun. But a superhero deciding to quit to live a normal life begins here and it was a brilliant concept.

But I simply prefer the execution of creating turmoil in Peter Parker in the movie more. And I agree MJ was the biggest reason or the turning point in the film, but I think you underestimate the getting slapped by Harry and losing that friendship in that Act One epiphany as well as the entire first 20 minutes of the movie being him getting knocked down by life from school to work. I wouldn't call it just a flee as that was the introductory portion of the film.

[TheSlag]

you dont understand. i didnt mean Bay ''fun'' or Mummy fun.
there were movies realesed that were smart fun.

if they go full on drama and crying it will bomb IMO.

I understand perfectly. I was simply emphasizing that there needed to be "real drama", real dark moments, in the movie. Without these, how can you appreciate the light?

And the Spider-Man "verse" is full of rich offerings of this. Dr. Connor's strory of Paradise Lost is one of these, and could be extremely powerful if done without the cheese that we unfortunately have been force fed in SM2 and moreso in SM3.

Along with the fact that EVERY frickin villain has a personal attachment to Peter, again robs Dr. Connors/Lizards birth right. Add to that, the fact that they have NOT established the Connors Clan at all in SM1,2, or 3... and I worry about that storyline too.

I worry that we will get the WB Smallville approach to "real drama" as opposed to the integrity and respect the storyline truely deserves.

[TheSlag]

Heh, didn't one of the writers from Smallville write a draft for Spidey 2? The one with a young Doc Ock competing for MJ's affections?


YIKES!!!!! :wow::wow:

*Goes to scrath eyes out of head after reading "that"*

[TheSlag]

Oh I appreciate the story a lot in the book. But to me it is more of an amazing concept that has been copied by every other character's writers under the sun. But a superhero deciding to quit to live a normal life begins here and it was a brilliant concept.

But I simply prefer the execution of creating turmoil in Peter Parker in the movie more. And I agree MJ was the biggest reason or the turning point in the film, but I think you underestimate the getting slapped by Harry and losing that friendship in that Act One epiphany as well as the entire first 20 minutes of the movie being him getting knocked down by life from school to work. I wouldn't call it just a flee as that was the introductory portion of the film.

Again, I agree that there were underlying reasons that added fuel to the fire, and ANY of the interaction between Harry and Peter was, and is, the best part of the entire series of movies. Period.

But, it only served to whet my appetite for more, for what we got in the comic storyline. I wanted to feel the world pressing down on him from every angle, NOT simply him being selfish and realizing/thinking he cannot have "the girl". It cheapens the character of Spider-Man, and of Peter Parker. BUT, this movie creation of Raimi that is "called" Peter Parker, does NOT resemble the Peter Parker I grow up reading, and loving.

Pity.

[TheWrathOfGod]

Again, I agree that there were underlying reasons that added fuel to the fire, and ANY of the interaction between Harry and Peter was, and is, the best part of the entire series of movies. Period.


Willem Dafoe was the best thing about the entire series of movies. So much so that they had to bring him back for the sequels.

The cunning warrior attacks neither body nor mind.

[Venom'sDad]

Willem Dafoe was the best thing about the entire series of movies. So much so that they had to bring him back for the sequels.

Agreed :up::up::up:

[LastSunrise1981]

I'm interested in reading everyones opinion on this. What direction do you want Spider-Man 4 to go? A poster mentioned less cheese and that I do agree with. I definitely feel it's time for the storyline in the film itself to get darker, a little more violent, and gritty.

When I think back to the battle between Peter and Norman I find myself really wishing Raimi went back to that style. I also remember Raimi stating that the original sequence was more bloody, violent, and longer, but the studio forced him to cut it down and remove the blood so the kids wouldn't get scared.

If Raimi uses the Lizard my idea would be to add some REAL horror elements to the picture. Maybe have Spidey in the sewers trying to track the Lizard down and all of a sudden he see's almost these animalistic/demonic eyes lunging towards him. Keep in mind it's pitch black in the sewers, very confined, and it would definitely create an intense situation.

My dream Spider-Man film definitely revolves around Lizard/Kraven.

[Joker]

Willem Dafoe was the best thing about the entire series of movies. So much so that they had to bring him back for the sequels.

They kept bringing Uncle Ben back, too. Was he also the best thing in this series? :cwink:

Guaranteed he'll pop up somewhere in SM-4, too. Doubt Norman will though, now that Harry is six feet under.

[luke1234]

My dream Spider-Man film definitely revolves around Lizard/Kraven.

Me too. A sewer scene would be marvelous. Monsters in confined spaces always makes scenes more intense haha. I keep forgetting how brutal the fight scene between spidey and goblin in the stone house was. That kind of grit totally brought the movie realism and intensity that was missing in the last two films. I think Raimi has a good census on this film. I think he knows he has to take a step back in terms of exaggerated fight sequences. Im looking forward with what he has to offer.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Guaranteed he'll pop up somewhere in SM-4, too. Doubt Norman will though, now that Harry is six feet under. I tihnk he will pop-up, but i lvoe it when he does. Very emotional, and it works. :up:

[venom892]

It worked in 2 but by three we already know That's pete's motivation.We don't need to explore it any futher.

[BlackLantern]

Me too. A sewer scene would be marvelous. Monsters in confined spaces always makes scenes more intense haha. I keep forgetting how brutal the fight scene between spidey and goblin in the stone house was. That kind of grit totally brought the movie realism and intensity that was missing in the last two films. I think Raimi has a good census on this film. I think he knows he has to take a step back in terms of exaggerated fight sequences. Im looking forward with what he has to offer.

same here....make Kraven this big **** game hunter who comes to NY and comes across what he thinks might be his greatest quarry ever...Spider-Man

[TheVileOne]

I'm fine with Raimi getting another chance. I think he deserves it. I still like Spider-man 3 even though it was very flawed.

I mainly want to see some different things really. Also people are taking some of Raimi's words too seriously. If anything I'm encouraged by it because I think its just saying he wants to be a perfectionist about these movies and wants to make improvements. There's always room for improvement. Nothing wrong with thinking that.

At the end of the day, I think Raimi had the much better take on Peter Parker than James Cameron. You can say OH OH OH MJ WAS THE FOCAL POINT, but I mean . . . In the comics you have Peter saying MJ is the focal point of his life and saying MJ gives him the power to do anything. And I think that's great. I'm fine with that. I just think the MJ/Peter/Harry storyline sort of went off the rails in the third movie. I think Gwen was forced in without being a real character.

I also even want Kirsten Dunst back because I don't have this intense hatred for her or her Mary Jane either.

[TheSlag]

Willem Dafoe was the best thing about the entire series of movies. So much so that they had to bring him back for the sequels.

The cunning warrior attacks neither body nor mind.

No argument that Dafoe was excellent, but I prefer the context of Brother vs. Brother, Harry vs. Peter. And Harry's story continued throughout all 3 movies also, and IMO, was the best part of SM2 and SM3.

Especially SM3, I loved the interaction (mind games) between Harry and Peter. I simply wish it would of been darker, and more intense than it was.

Still good, but could of been greatness. Especially with Harry terrorizing those that Peter loves with his knowledge of Peter's secret.

[TheSlag]

When I think back to the battle between Peter and Norman I find myself really wishing Raimi went back to that style.

Totally agree. Still the most brutal/intense of all the battles so far. :up:

[Venom'sDad]

I'm interested in reading everyones opinion on this. What direction do you want Spider-Man 4 to go? A poster mentioned less cheese and that I do agree with. I definitely feel it's time for the storyline in the film itself to get darker, a little more violent, and gritty.

I like to say a more mature/realistic theme... which in itself would produce what you ask for. Look, you take anyone corrupt or have the potential to become very corrupt, and they gain power.... realistically, they are not going to say "I didn't ask for this" or "I will not die a monster". Jesus Christ, come on!

And the fact that a responsible person like Peter Parker, gaining power would still make his a little arrogant, witty, sarcastic... something Sam has completely missed. Stan knew that and got it right.

Lets have more mature themes and behavior and not this daytime PBS children soap. These kids today are very much more aware at their age than kids just a decade ago. Having Brock crying and praying to GOD for the death of Peter, because Peter took his coffee date to a club and expose him(Eddie) as a fraud is totally ridiculous.

This is why I appreciate BB & TDK because they had real villains with real motivations in real situation that the audience can see happening as it plays out... greed, power, criminal attitudes, resources, and opportunity. The villains was unapologetic and intentional. With that, more mature/realistic themes, by nature, it would have dark and violent moments.

[BenReilly19]

Raimi was asked about a possible vampire antagonist for the next flick:

http://chud.com/articles/articles/19566/1/EXCLUSIVE-CLIP-SAM-RAIMI-TALKS-VAMPIRES-IN-SPIDER-MAN-4/Page1.html

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Wow, he seems very interested in it. That's really good news. :up:

[Joker]

Yeah, I reckon Drag me to Hell has really put Raimi back in touch with his horror roots. So it's no wonder that Morbius would appeal to him.

But The Lizard deserves priority over Morbius. The Lizard can be just as terrifying.

[SpeterMan3]

Yeah, I reckon Drag me to Hell has really put Raimi back in touch with his horror roots. So it's no wonder that Morbius would appeal to him.

But The Lizard deserves priority over Morbius. The Lizard can be just as terrifying.
Mhmm.

[DACrowe]

Interesting. Raimi sounded REALLY interested and thoughtful on the lore of vampires. If he uses Morbious the way he describes vampires would be a HUGE departure from the last three movies.

As a Lizard fan first, sign me up if it brings new blood (pun intended) to the franchise. But need I mention ASM #100-103, where Lizard AND Morbius appeared? Just leave the six arms behind please.





On a side note, if Morbius starts targeting and biting MJ this is not going to be cool. :o

[spider-neil]

Totally agree. Still the most brutal/intense of all the battles so far. :up:


the graveyard gobby/spidey fight v the clocktower/train fight were both amazing but I think the train sequence takes it, I was literally on the edge of my seat. sami will be hard pressed to top that.

[spider-neil]

Yeah, I reckon Drag me to Hell has really put Raimi back in touch with his horror roots. So it's no wonder that Morbius would appeal to him.

But The Lizard deserves priority over Morbius. The Lizard can be just as terrifying.


I don't see why you can't do both. and really go for a dark take on spidey.
lizard
morbius
six armed spidey

just like in the metagenic nightmare (90's spiderman cartoon)

I wanted sam to go back to a single villain but I think he could handle two.

[spider-neil]

TDK showed you can have dark elements in a movie and still make a killing at the box office, in case sam was afraid if he made spidey too dark it would drive away the audience.

[Immortalfire]

NOTICE: People, please do not turn this in another blasted "Spidey should be more like teh Batman!!!"



Now that that's out of the way, carry on. :yay:

[mjbull23]

Raimi was asked about a possible vampire antagonist for the next flick:

http://chud.com/articles/articles/19566/1/EXCLUSIVE-CLIP-SAM-RAIMI-TALKS-VAMPIRES-IN-SPIDER-MAN-4/Page1.html

He certainly seems to enjoy toying with the interviewer about the possibility of .... if nothing else.

Look, I'm of the opinion that vampires have no place in these movies, they are best served in their own genre. Can a vampire such as Morbius be introduced and adapted credibly into one of these films? Sure. That doesn't convince me that it's the right way to go.

I found his quip about "I find it interesting that anyone can become a vampire"... and immediately I had this "oh no" reaction. So, couple of things, first, I hope they keep vampirism away from the Spiderman franchise, 2nd thing is, if they do introduce a character like Morbius, I really hope they're not planning on having him convert ...(drum roll)... MARY JANE... LOL into a she vamp. oh god, please say it aint so. Oh wait... Aunt May lol no no no

[BlackLantern]

They need to stop shoe horning MJ into every third act....she doesn't need to be kidnapped or terrorized every film....have her in the film of course, but a little MJ goes a long way

[TheSlag]

the graveyard gobby/spidey fight v the clocktower/train fight were both amazing but I think the train sequence takes it, I was literally on the edge of my seat. sami will be hard pressed to top that.

Please note I only said most brutal/intense. All the fights with Doc Ock in SM2(except for the final battle, and that is a pity), were simply amazing to watch, as I knew they would be. I had long dreamed of an amazing wall battle between Ock and Spidey, and Sam & Co more than fulfilled those dreams.

But, again, the Spidey vs. GG final battle in SM1 still was the most brutal/intense and personal battle of the series, as it should be, with a close second to Harry vs. Peter's first battle in SM3.

I am gonna miss the Goblin Legacy.

[TheSlag]

I found his quip about "I find it interesting that anyone can become a vampire"... and immediately I had this "oh no" reaction. So, couple of things, first, I hope they keep vampirism away from the Spiderman franchise, 2nd thing is, if they do introduce a character like Morbius, I really hope they're not planning on having him convert ...(drum roll)... MARY JANE... LOL into a she vamp. oh god, please say it aint so. Oh wait... Aunt May lol no no no

LOL.. Great post! Well Kirsten wanted a more significant role (still hard to say that with a straight face considering she is the focal point in the first 3 movies.. ALL about that girl)... and just think the money they will save with NO Makeup for her "transformation". LOL

*NOOooooooooooooooooooo*

[Demogoblin]

Personally, I wouldnt read much into what Sam said. After all, its not surprising that he is interested in vampires. As we all know, he started out as a horror director. Besides, he teased us in the SM2 DVD commentary that Harry might realize what a monster Norman was and that he had to be stopped. We know that didnt turn out to be true. We'll see whats going on when the script is finished and we hear about bad guys.


On a side note, I never cared much for Morbius. Spider-Man vs vampire never seemed to fit to me.

[SpeterMan3]

Completely agree.

[TheSlag]

Morbius would be a mistake, a big mistake, and IMO would mark the official end of this incarnation of the franchise.

So, IF we could get a reboot, with new cast, new director, and ONE that would stay closer to the comic storylines and characters... IT COULD turn out to be the greatest villain Raimi has ever picked. :woot:

But seriously, I doubt we will ever see Morbius in Spider-Man (movies). Thank God! Well, maybe SM12.. which goes directly to video. With Kirsten playing Aunt May or the Crypt Keeper in a cameo (hey, she wants a more signifcant role. :cwink:

[Venom'sDad]

Slag, I know you funning, but if the franchise ever reboot, I surely wish they start with Chameleon, touch of Peter's parents and how it relates to Chameleon, introduce Norman(not Gobby yet), portray Pete as a Junior in HS, building relationship with the supporting cast, so it want be so forced and manufactured as it appears now.

[spider-neil]

morbius actually turns up with the lizard in a classic spidey comic run. put it this way morbius and lizard makes more sense than lizard and kraven, two characters that (as far as I'm aware) have never appeared together in comics or a animated feature.

[TheScarecrow]

Personally, I wouldnt read much into what Sam said. After all, its not surprising that he is interested in vampires. As we all know, he started out as a horror director. Besides, he teased us in the SM2 DVD commentary that Harry might realize what a monster Norman was and that he had to be stopped. We know that didnt turn out to be true. We'll see whats going on when the script is finished and we hear about bad guys.

As you say, Morbius is right up Sam's alley and Sam has made it quite clear that he's not going to be told by anyone what is to go into the movie. The Kraven and Lizard scenario holds no more weight because it's supported so much by fans because this is why Venom was included.

Despite not wanting Morbius, I can actually see him in a Sam Raimi Spider-man film more than I can many other villains (especially Kraven, Carnage etc.).

[TheSlag]

Slag, I know you funning, but if the franchise ever reboot, I surely wish they start with Chameleon, touch of Peter's parents and how it relates to Chameleon, introduce Norman(not Gobby yet), portray Pete as a Junior in HS, building relationship with the supporting cast, so it want be so forced and manufactured as it appears now.

If they do reboot, I like you hope they start and spend more time with Peter in High School. I do not agree with the Chameleon though. I do not like him as a villain, in a movie based on special effects (CGI), the Chameleon would not be a Must See Villain in my verse.

He kinda falls into the same lineage as Mysterio for me. A villain with Special Effects Abilities in a movie based on Special Effects... CGI.. just takes me out of it completely.

But, as you say, more development of the Peter Parker character, and MUCH more development of "the gang", Peter's supporting characters, would be total greatness IMO. And lay the foundation for the stories to come.

[TheSlag]

morbius actually turns up with the lizard in a classic spidey comic run. put it this way morbius and lizard makes more sense than lizard and kraven, two characters that (as far as I'm aware) have never appeared together in comics or a animated feature.

I can see why people think Kraven would fit well with Lizard. Big Game hunter, coming to the concrete jungle to hunt the reported 6 foot Lizard Man, and Peter/Spider-Man, realizing that the Lizard is real, and worse, it's his friend and mentor Dr. Connors. Now he has to try to find a way to save his friend from the nightmare of his own creation, and keep Kraven from hanging the Lizard's head on his wall, as well as keep from getting eaten alive in the process.

But... I still worry about how Kraven the Hunter would come off on the big screen.

I just hope whichever direction they decide on, that Dr. Connors and his family, and his story (Lizard) is the focal point of SM4. Period.

[Demogoblin]

As you say, Morbius is right up Sam's alley and Sam has made it quite clear that he's not going to be told by anyone what is to go into the movie. The Kraven and Lizard scenario holds no more weight because it's supported so much by fans because this is why Venom was included.

Despite not wanting Morbius, I can actually see him in a Sam Raimi Spider-man film more than I can many other villains (especially Kraven, Carnage etc.).

None of these speculations really matter because none of us really know whats going on. We wont know until we see the script.

morbius actually turns up with the lizard in a classic spidey comic run. put it this way morbius and lizard makes more sense than lizard and kraven, two characters that (as far as I'm aware) have never appeared together in comics or a animated feature.

I dont see what it matters if Kraven and Lizard never appeared together in a comic. Ock was never married and Gwen was kidnapped and taken to the bridge, not MJ. Sam isnt following comic continuity.

[Venom'sDad]

If they do reboot, I like you hope they start and spend more time with Peter in High School. I do not agree with the Chameleon though. I do not like him as a villain, in a movie based on special effects (CGI), the Chameleon would not be a Must See Villain in my verse.

He kinda falls into the same lineage as Mysterio for me. A villain with Special Effects Abilities in a movie based on Special Effects... CGI.. just takes me out of it completely.

But, as you say, more development of the Peter Parker character, and MUCH more development of "the gang", Peter's supporting characters, would be total greatness IMO. And lay the foundation for the stories to come.

Well, I understand you dislike of Chameleon and Mysterio and from your perspective, your statement make sense. On the surface, I would agree to a point.

However, I envision Chameleon being much more deadier threat and more skillful and tactical... without changing the essence of who he is. Just adding to it. With todays modern technology, weapons, and training tactics(hand-to-hand and espionage)... I can see him as a more interesting and deadier foe to Spidey. Especially as it relates to Pete's parents. Which I would love to see how he came under the care of Ben & May Parker and how the death of his parents form the person he has become, along with Ben's tutelage.

IMO, that would be a good first story... beginning.

[TheSlag]

Ii can understand how "logically" it would make a good starting point.

But I still have a problem selling that villain to the public, especially in this day and age, wth how many great villains we have seen come to life on the big screen.

Chameleon.. master of disguise, master of the martial arts fighting, master of... etc. Just comes off weak to me, after the likes of getting to see Doc Ock raise himself up on his tentacles, scale a wall, battle Spidey on top of a train going full speed.

After seeing Gobby, flying on his glider, tossing pumpkin bombs and bat razors. The beauty of Goblin was his balancing act with insanity, balancing act that his arch enemy was Spider-Man, who was like a son to him.. Peter Parker.

I just think it's gonna be a hard sell with Chameleon, see Spidey dodging bullets, dodiging a net trap, etc... see Chameleon disguised as Gwen, tell Peter she does not love him anymore.... see Peter/Tobey make his constipated crying face at that news.. LOL (ok.. sorry, I went overboard there :cwink:)

I just think in this day and age, Chamelieon would come off as a poor man's Mission Impossible (remember scene with supposed latex mask being pulled off), or a poor-man's ripoff of Punisher.. which we all saw how well that sold with the public.

So, sorry, guess we will agree to disgree. I say no Chameleion.

[Venom'sDad]

Well look, don't confuse me with Sam... the thing you describe there is totally not how I envision it playing out... Peter crying, dodging nets, and a rubber face Gwen. LOL. But, I understand your point. I don't expect you to see exactly the way I see things; but hope you grasp a glimpse of my approach.

[spider-neil]

None of these speculations really matter because none of us really know whats going on. We wont know until we see the script.



I dont see what it matters if Kraven and Lizard never appeared together in a comic. Ock was never married and Gwen was kidnapped and taken to the bridge, not MJ. Sam isnt following comic continuity.

I'm saying morbius with lizard is a better 'fit' because it has actually happened in the comics and the animated series.
truth to be told I would perfer the movie to just have lizard, loads of time for character development but if there is to be a secondary character I think morbius could serve the story better than kraven, just my opinion.

I loved the angle in TAS were morbius was draining people and spidey was taking the blame so the police came after spidey in force. something like that on the big screen could be fantastic. lizard v morbius v spidey v the police.

[FaT_tONle]

I actually wouldn't mind Morbius. If that is Sam's strength then let him do what he feels comfortable with. I'd prefer Kraven of course, but Morbius is a lot more powerful and would be a bigger threat. Plus he's been rumored for a while now so obviously there has to be something to it. I can see Sam going with Vulture, Morbius, Kraven in terms of priority. Maybe even Electro has more priority than Kraven.

[FlawlessVictory]

EXCLUSIVE: Sam Raimi Hopes To Start Shooting 'Spider-Man 4' In March 2010 (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/10/09/exclusive-sam-raimi-hopes-to-start-shooting-spider-man-4-in-march-2010/)

Posted 39 minutes ago by Eric Ditzian (http://splashpage.mtv.com/author/ericditzian/) in Hot Stuff (http://splashpage.mtv.com/category/hot-stuff/), Marvel (http://splashpage.mtv.com/category/marvel/), News (http://splashpage.mtv.com/category/news/)

Back in March, a little less than two years after "Spider-Man 3" opened with what was then the biggest first weekend ever, Sony and Marvel Studios announced an official release date for its fourth Spidey flick: May 6, 2011 (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/03/12/spider-man-4-release-date-announced/). Still up in the air was the date when production would actually begin.

In an exclusive conversation with MTV News on Friday, franchise director Sam Raimi reveled that if all goes according to plan, shooting will begin early next year.

"We're hoping that it's the first week in March," said Raimi.

At the moment, pre-production is in full swing, even as screenwriter Gary Ross ("great director and a very fine writer," said Raimi) continues to work on the script.

"He's working on a draft," he continued. "I just gave him some notes and he's doing a rewrite right now."

On other fronts, "Spider-Man 4" continues to chug along. "The production is starting to come together," Raimi told us. "I've got a production designer who is starting to design the sets and the environments that the picture will take place in. We just brought aboard Scott Stokdyk as one of the two visual effects supervisors, and I worked with him on all three 'Spider-man' pictures."

With Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst set to reprise their roles (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/09/15/spider-man-4-updates-kirsten-dunst-confirmed-same-day-imax-release/), Raimi and his team will soon turn their attention to filling out the rest of the cast. "None of the casting has really taken place, but we're starting to think about that now," the director said.

Our chat with Raimi was a wide-ranging one, filled with talk about where he wants to take the Peter Parker character, which villain(s) might be showing up on the big screen, and much, much more. Check back in the coming days for more exclusive Spidey news.
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/10/09/exclusive-sam-raimi-hopes-to-start-shooting-spider-man-4-in-march-2010/

[Spider-ManHero12]

Aweosme news, IMO! Great to see things coming togeather and i can't wait to hear who the Villian is! :spidey::up:

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Aweosme news, IMO! Great to see things coming togeather and i can't wait to hear who the Villian is! :spidey::up:

Agreed! :up: :applaud

[Goran]

I feel that this movie will be postponed...

[Demogoblin]

I feel that this movie will be postponed...

What makes you say that?

[Octoberist]

i don't know where he got that idea from.

[Iron Fist]

Awesome news, 5 months away!

[Goran]

What makes you say that?

Raimi HOPES that filming will start in March... so he's not sure. If they start in March it's "only" a year and two months until the film would be released. I don't think that's enough to make a proper film (or at least better than S-M3, which had more time between filming and release...)

[SpaceWay2009]

I thought filming was going to start in January or February. Nonetheless, glad to hear some new news. :) I guess the script is still being worked on.

[spider-neil]

I hope dunst has a minor role, not because I dislike here I just want as much screen time as possible for peter and the villian (hopefully lizard) if it is lizard there is conners/lizard/kurt's wife and child to flesh out.

I really hope sam has learnt from SM3

[Joker]

I really hope sam has learnt from SM3

I think he has:

"Part of the reason I want to make this 'Spider-Man' film – maybe the biggest reason -- is because I know I can do a lot better than I did last time. I love the character so much -- I just think I got off-track. I hope that I found my way home again to the character that the great Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created.

Link: http://www.wjactv.com/atthemovies/21295978/detail.html

He knows SM-3 was a weak effort. He knows the majority of the fans disliked it. I bet even he doesn't care for it much himself. Even when watching SM-3, you can see it's missing the flair that the first two movies had. Raimi seemed to be just going thru the motions. His heart wasn't in it.

[Frodo]

I think he has:



Link: http://www.wjactv.com/atthemovies/21295978/detail.html

He knows SM-3 was a weak effort. He knows the majority of the fans disliked it. I bet even he doesn't care for it much himself. Even when watching SM-3, you can see it's missing the flair that the first two movies had. Raimi seemed to be just going thru the motions. His heart wasn't in it.

Well clearly SM3 had too many cooks. Maybe now that the last one was a mega hit, they'll be able to let him have more lee way in telling a good story instead of trying to fit every villan under the sun into the film. We just have to wait and see if the story he wants to tell is better then the last one.

[Demogoblin]

Well clearly SM3 had too many cooks. Maybe now that the last one was a mega hit, they'll be able to let him have more lee way in telling a good story instead of trying to fit every villan under the sun into the film. We just have to wait and see if the story he wants to tell is better then the last one.
Thats one way of looking at it. The other is that the studio will say "Look at what a financial success SM3 was. You'll listen to us from now on." Hopefully, that wont happen. The DVD sales for SM3 were less than hoped for, so maybe Sony will have learned their lesson. Sam claims he has full creative power over SM4. Lets hope it stays that way.

[sauronthegreat]

If the DVD sales were not so great, then I'm really hoping for a new release before Spider-Man 4, and not just an extended cut, but a whole director's cut of the film.

[Smit84]

If the DVD sales were not so great, then I'm really hoping for a new release before Spider-Man 4, and not just an extended cut, but a whole director's cut of the film.

Sam Raimi said the theatrical cut is the director's cut. It was also true of the other Spider-man films.

[sauronthegreat]

Sam Raimi said the theatrical cut is the director's cut. It was also true of the other Spider-man films.

It wasn't for Spider-Man 2 and I think there is a lot of material that if put rightly could make part 3 a decent film.

[Doctor Jones]

I always knews Raimi wasn't that stupid to suddenly shift like that. I mean you look at all his films, he's a great filmmaker. And SM3 didn't seem like him at all. With the producers and studio interfering, his heart wasn't in it to tell a story he was passionate about.

I love that article. It's reasurring. Even better he agrees with the critisims. Not many filmmakers admit to that.

[chaseter]

It wasn't for Spider-Man 2 and I think there is a lot of material that if put rightly could make part 3 a decent film.
SM3 needs a lot of cuts and edits and replacements to make it a decent film. A lot of the stuff that we know that was filmed (Flint and his daughter at the park and Venom coming there to team up, Sandman's daughter asking him not to kill Spider-Man, and a longer birth of Sandman). But, it cannot make up for emo Peter, Harry with amnesia, Bernerd the Butler, and the overly painful emo Parker street song as well as the jazz club. It could help the movie, but it is still going to be pretty meh. SM2.1 was just more icing on an already delicious cake. Putting great icing on a crappy cake will help a little, but it is still going to be a meh cake.

And, I hate...HATE, the symbiote musical theme. The symbiote is menacing, it is suppose to represent a bad long term choice for a short term gain. The music there just did not fit and it was pretty weak imo.

[gar19rett]

spiderman 3 just needed to take out the venom plotline for a different movie

[Octoberist]

Bernard the Butler was the one that character in Spidey 3 that I was like "WHHHHAAAT"?

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Back to basics for Spidey 4...

Sam Raimi has been interviewed quite a lot recently and earlier this week he was talking about possible villains for Spider-Man 4. Today Coventry Blog have a quote from him saying that he agrees that there were too many villains in Spider-Man 3, and that he learned ‘limitations’ while filming Drag Me To Hell which he hopes to bring to Spider-Man 4:

Asked about complaints that there were too many villains in Spider-Man 3, he said: “I think having so many villains detracted from the experience. I would agree with the criticism.”

Raimi added that he had learned some new lessons and storytelling tricks from his last film, Drag Me to Hell. “I think I’ve learned about the importance of getting to the point and the importance of having limitations, and I’m hoping to take that into a production where I’m actually allowed to explore with more of the tools to pull it off with a little more splendor.

“I hope I don’t lose that edge that I’ve just found. That would be my approach to ‘Spider-Man 4′: to get back to the basics.”

http://filmonic.com/sam-raimi-back-basics-spider-man-4-talks-5

[Joker]

^^^ It is very reassuring to know that Raimi knows he messed up with SM-3, and wants to set things right with part 4.

[spider-neil]

there were three villians and by dropping one of the villians it would have made for a better movie. if they HAD to have venom in the movie then the bell tower should have been the FINAL sequence, venom is born - roll credits.

if venom hadn't appeared in the spidey movie then the venom movie would be much better because they could write origin and do what they want. I suspect they will ignore what happened in spidey 3 anyway meaning venom was in the SM3 movie for no reason other than to make it bloated mess.

[Oscorp]

^^^ It is very reassuring to know that Raimi knows he messed up with SM-3, and wants to set things right with part 4.

Agree! I have a good feeling about this :)

[Spider-ManHero12]

Even though I loved S-M3, it's great to know Raimi is back on track. :spidey::up:

[Ratcrawler]

It's not that part 3 had too many villains. It's that two of those villains were pretty outlandish, had NOTHING to do with each other and just sort of miraculously appeared in the same setting.

Personally, if I had to choose between Venom and Sandman in context of sPider-Man 3, I think Venom fit the story better. Harry's revenge and donning the Goblin title were being set up in the first two films and had to come into fruition here, and the whole theme of the movie was pretty much confronting and overcoming your dark side. Harry's was brought on by his need for revenge and Goblin formula and Peter's by the Black Suit and possibly fame. In the end, they both could have forgave each other and teamed up against a more powerful Venom who, in Sandman's absence, might have had more screen time to develop.

All Sandman really did was dredge up the past.

[Nightmare]

Even though I loved S-M3, it's great to know Raimi is back on track. :spidey::up:

Wut? :huh:

[spider-neil]

another thing that was annoying about SM3 is if you looked at all the trailers they are very serious in tone but when you watch the movie the movie is played for laughs. its like false advertising.

[zeptron]

another thing that was annoying about SM3 is if you looked at all the trailers they are very serious in tone but when you watch the movie the movie is played for laughs. its like false advertising.

I have to agree. Ironically this was supposed to be the darkest movie, but it turned out to be the campiest.

Instead of making the black suit sub-plot into the much darker territory it deserved, they decided to turn Peter into a laughing stock. It had awful humor and it couldn't be taken seriously. Why did they have to put so much focus on what Peter was like with the black suit? We saw him fully clothed in the suit ONCE. ONE fight with the suit. We never saw him stop bad guys in an overly-aggressive way. There was cool Bugle photos and black Spidey doing some bad-ass stuff, WHY didn't we get a montague of black Spidey doings stuff like that across the city instead of some crappy montague about him dancing through the streets?

[spider-neil]

I have to agree. Ironically this was supposed to be the darkest movie, but it turned out to be the campiest.

Instead of making the black suit sub-plot into the much darker territory it deserved, they decided to turn Peter into a laughing stock. It had awful humor and it couldn't be taken seriously. Why did they have to put so much focus on what Peter was like with the black suit? We saw him fully clothed in the suit ONCE. ONE fight with the suit. We never saw him stop bad guys in an overly-aggressive way. There was cool Bugle photos and black Spidey doing some bad-ass stuff, WHY didn't we get a montague of black Spidey doings stuff like that across the city instead of some crappy montague about him dancing through the streets?


I'm really glad TDK cleaned up at the box office because SM3 is the most successful of the spidey trilogy so they may have that comedy is the way to go but TDK showed with a serious subject matter you can dominate the box office. the truth is I'm 100% certain if TDK had come out for SM3 you would have seen a different SM3. they would have embraced the darkness of the plotline rather ridiculing it.

[LightningFlash]

^^^ It is very reassuring to know that Raimi knows he messed up with SM-3, and wants to set things right with part 4.

Well he doesn't really need to set things right with part 4. Just have a better storyline; I mean, both Osborns are dead, and Peter and MJ are trying to get back on the right track. S-M 3 sucked, yes, but there isn't really anything that Raimi needs to do to "set things right". He just needs to go back to doing more story than anything. I would say work more on the Peter/MJ relationship, and perhaps bring May more into the main plot.

The only thing I can really think of is change Dr. Connors' career before he becomes Lizard, lol.

Wut? :huh:

Yah, it's strange hearing that. It's like hearing someone liked Catwoman.

[Joker]

Well he doesn't really need to set things right with part 4. Just have a better storyline

That's what I mean by setting things right. Get the franchise back on track again.

Btw, I'd change your signature if I were you. Calling people here morons is a bannable offence.

[venomvsspidey]

Yah, it's strange hearing that. It's like hearing someone liked Catwoman.


cool story bro.

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

I don't think this has been posted but Raimi confirmed Campbell will have "a good, meaty role."

When MTV News had a chance to talk to Raimi, of course we needed to know if Campbell was speaking the truth. After sneaking into cameos in the first three "Spider-Man" flicks, has the "Evil Dead" star really nabbed a major part in the fourth installment?

As soon as I asked Raimi this question, he burst into laughter, as you can hear if you click on the video in this post. "I promised him we would write something because I really love putting him in the pictures," he then said. "I promised him a good, meaty role."

Video/interview: http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/10/19/exclusive-sam-raimi-confirms-bruce-campbell-will-have-meaty-role-in-spider-man-4/

I love watching Campbell in the Spidey movies so I'm always glad to see him in his roles in the franchise. :up:

[Venom 1988]

The reporter also forgot to say that Raimi has no idea what role it could be yet. So hes not a villain that's for sure, (Thank you Jeebus)

[Grievous]

I think Venom should of been kept for 4. The bad guys are key in a movie and too many I think can be a bad thing.