Dear WB, your supposed 2009 blockbusters continue to fail...

[Ita-KalEl]

Are you still sure that there's not a place for Superman?

Watchmen
Production Budget: $150 million
Domestic: $107,483,804 58.8%
+ Foreign: $75,225,483 41.2%
= Worldwide: $182,709,287

Terminator Salvation
Production Budget: $200 million
Domestic: $56,382,000

Superman Returns after its first week-end did $66,795,937
I wonder if it's really impossible to imagine a better performance for the supposed "Man of Steel".

"Watchmen will do great!"
"Terminator Salvation and its sequels will do billions. Superman is useless".
At this point if the Hobbit failed, at WB they would be in trouble.

It's clear that they have canned the Superman franchise without a single good reason, and I wonder if now (after that a TS sequel is not sure anymore) there is a place for it.

[Blackman]

This thread is about a useful as swine flu...please close this

[Wiseman]

Is it racist if I say shut-up blackman if that's his name?

[Ita-KalEl]

This thread is about a useful as swine flu...please close this

Why? :)
I've read that there's no place for Superman anymore, that TMOS was canned because of the budget ($175m was too expensive), because of the b.o. failure of the first movie ($390m ww), because the poor popularity of the character...

2009 was supposed to be the year of the MOS, we know that at WB they decided to cancel it and to greenlit some better franchises (Watchmen, Terminator Salvation). These movies are doing far worse than Superman Returns. I wonder if the decision to cancel Superman was a good decision, and if now there is a chance to see it again before the 2012.

[Superark]

Once again, WB released a film this year that will end up turning into a dud.

I cant help but think how this makes SR's BO look better

[Ita-KalEl]

I don't want to talk about the SR's box office. I wonder if the flops of Watchmen and Terminator Salvation can change something for the future. For example by now we know that chances of a 2011 TS.

[Superark]

I don't want to talk about the SR's box office. I wonder if the flops of Watchmen and Terminator Salvation can change something for the future. For example by now we know that chances of a 2011 TS.

My only point in bringing it up is to show that there is an audience for Superman. Whether it is a sequel, reboot, requel or whatever, a Superman film is going to bring in money, especially if it has a decent story and lots of action

[nintendo nerd]

Are you still sure that there's not a place for Superman?

Watchmen
Production Budget: $150 million
Domestic: $107,483,804 58.8%
+ Foreign: $75,225,483 41.2%
= Worldwide: $182,709,287

Terminator Salvation
Production Budget: $200 million
Domestic: $56,382,000

Superman Returns after its first week-end did $66,795,937
I wonder if it's really impossible to imagine a better performance for the supposed "Man of Steel".

"Watchmen will do great!"
"Terminator Salvation and its sequels will do billions. Superman is useless".
At this point if the Hobbit failed, at WB they would be in trouble.

It's clear that they have canned the Superman franchise without a single good reason, and I wonder if now (after that a TS sequel is not sure anymore) there is a place for it.

My thoughts exactly, Ita. Great Post. SR made more money than Watchmen, Speed Racer, and it looks like TS will do also less. Let's not forget that SR made more money than BB. SR and all those movies had a similar budget (according to Showtime, SR's budget was 204 million, not counting previous efforts, correct me if I'm wrong ).

SR received better reviews from critics and audiences than all of those movies except for BB. If WB decides to do a sequel for TS, why can't there be one for SR?

[nintendo nerd]

This thread is about a useful as swine flu...please close this

More repect please. I live in Mexico and that was a very serious matter for Mexicans.

[Paradoxium]

If I was investor, I would not have gambled on Watchmen - not hindsight, I always agreed with Moore on adaptation issues - nor would I gamble on a Superman sequel given the stigma SR has incurred (intended or not). I would actually prefer to gamble on a second tier hero instead. Maybe a Nightwing movie of lower budget.

[nintendo nerd]

If I was investor, I would not have gambled on Watchmen - not hindsight, I always agreed with Moore on adaptation issues - nor would I gamble on a Superman sequel given the stigma SR has incurred (intended or not). I would actually prefer to gamble on a second tier hero instead. Maybe a Nightwing movie of lower budget.

Which Stigma? GA's issue with SR was lack of action. The story and characters were fine.

[Ita-KalEl]

Paradoxium in the Terminator:Salvation box office thread told me that it is a problem of "future divided profit percentages".

I don't know if it is true, I know only that every year there is at least a big WB movie (with a budget over the $150m) that bombs. And someone continues to say that Superman is dead.

[Webhead2006]

You can really judge TS yet only after its first weekend.

[nintendo nerd]

You can really judge TS yet only after its first weekend.


Yes, you can. With all the competition they needed bigger numbers. Plus the bad WOM won't help at all. Opening weekend is very important for Studios and TS was beaten by Night at the Museum 2 which cost 50 million less to make. TS will be lucky to reach 150 million.

[NeoRanger]

If WB decides to do a sequel for TS, why can't there be one for SR?
I'm pretty sure that was not the OP point.

[Paradoxium]

Paradoxium in the Terminator:Salvation box office thread told me that it is a problem of "future divided profit percentages".

I don't know if it is true, I know only that every year there is at least a big WB movie (with a budget over the $150m) that bombs. And someone continues to say that Superman is dead.I don't know if it is settled yet, but I do recall reading something about it, I will try digging it up.

[nintendo nerd]

I'm pretty sure that was not the OP point.

I know. That's my opinion.

[Superark]

You can really judge TS yet only after its first weekend.


yes you can. TS was expected to make an opening of 70-90 million. They movie is going to end up being a big letdown for WB

I think this should make Superman more of a priority for them.

[Paradoxium]

All I know is the Siegels own 50% of the domestic rights. I am not certain how much they get a cut of in terms of net profit. But they are not exactly forking up the risk (contribute to budget of film). It's almost a win-win scenario. If the film fails, they get nothing but have no losses. If it profits, they get a nice roll of the cash. How much is a problem.

[Ita-KalEl]

All I know is the Siegels own 50% of the domestic rights. I am not certain how much they get a cut of in terms of net profit. But they are not exactly forking up the risk (contribute to budget of film). It's almost a win-win scenario. If the film fails, they get nothing but have no losses. If it profits, they get a nice roll of the cash. How much is a problem.

This is a shame dear Paradoxium. One of the best franchises ever killed by the greed...
But I'm sure that there is still hope for the future. At least we know that for 2011 the place occupied by the TS sequel, is by now vacant.

[RachelDawes]

This is a shame dear Paradoxium. One of the best franchises ever killed by the greed...
But I'm sure that there is still hope for the future. At least we know that for 2011 the place occupied by the TS sequel, is by now vacant.

I hadn't thought of that. And Superman is still a top tier superhero, even after the disappointment of SR...

[Lighthouse]

:facepalm

Do you people really think this changes in anyway WB's viewpoint on Superman Returns? Really?

[KalMart]

If Obama's presidency turns out to be a bust.....should the US re-elect George Bush? Is there a place for George Bush in our future?

[KalMart]

I feel a mod-action approaching.......

[FilmNerdJamie]

"No no I have no idea why this thread would be closed..."

[Wiseman]

In all fairness though, I don't really think it was TS or Watchmen's fault that there wasn't a sequel to Superman in the works, I think it was cause the first one kinda sucked...a lot.

[Superark]

:facepalm

Do you people really think this changes in anyway WB's viewpoint on Superman Returns? Really?

I think the question is whether it will change WB's priorities in regard to Superman. If TS turns out to be a flop, will WB decide to get moving on a Superman film instead? I mean TS was suppose be the re-start of a huge franchise for them.

[Lighthouse]

I think the question is whether it will change WB's priorities in regard to Superman. If TS turns out to be a flop, will WB decide to get moving on a Superman film instead? I mean TS was suppose be the re-start of a huge franchise for them.

It's just this question is asked for almost every summer film that comes out. People asked the same thing when The Incredible Hulk came out, when Speed Racer flopped, when Star Trek reboot did well, and I honestly don't think it has any bearing. The only movie I can see having some bearing in their attitude towards the franchise might be The Dark Knight.

[Webhead2006]

Also with Terminator if T5/T6 happens we dont even know if wb will have the US release rights for the properity any more There is the reports out there they could be losing them to MGM or even another company all together. And i would wait to after this next week and see how terminator fairs here in the US and how much of a drop off it is and its world wide release.

[Superark]

It's just this question is asked for almost every summer film that comes out. People asked the same thing when The Incredible Hulk came out, when Speed Racer flopped, when Star Trek reboot did well, and I honestly don't think it has any bearing. The only movie I can see having some bearing in their attitude towards the franchise might be The Dark Knight.

But if TS does show really poor legs, then the 2011 spot for what was suppose to be for the next Terminator could suddenly be free. There's no telling if it would give Superman an opening, it could very well be filled by some other project, but it is interesting to speculate.

Heck Jamie has said/speculated in the past that the next Superman film could possibly be in summer 2011. Maybe now there is a possible spot

[[A]]

This thread is about a useful as swine flu...please close thisIta-KalEl is not The Spawn or Catman

[FilmNerdJamie]

And i would wait to after this next week and see how terminator fairs here in the US and how much of a drop off it is and its world wide release.

Granted we already know you have no idea what you're talking about. That said, T4 opened not only below projections but also less than T3 did six years ago. Add to that the mixed-to-negative word of mouth and the drop-off next weekend will be 60%+ and that's being conservative.

This franchise is over.

[Superark]

granted we already know you have no idea what you're talking about. That said, t4 opened not only below projections but also less than t3 did six years ago. Add to that the mixed-to-negative word of mouth and the drop-off next weekend will be 60%+ and that's being conservative.

This franchise is over.

qft

[KalMart]

Granted we already know you have no idea what you're talking about. That said, T4 opened not only below projections but also less than T3 did six years ago. Add to that the mixed-to-negative word of mouth and the drop-off next weekend will be 60%+ and that's being conservative.

This franchise is over.
Better (two movies too) late than never.

[nintendo nerd]

In all fairness though, I don't really think it was TS or Watchmen's fault that there wasn't a sequel to Superman in the works, I think it was cause the first one kinda sucked...a lot.

Your opinion friend, nothing more. It made more than BB, both Hulk movies, FF1 AND 2, Daredevil, first X-men movie, possibly Wolverine and others.

[nintendo nerd]

Granted we already know you have no idea what you're talking about. That said, T4 opened not only below projections but also less than T3 did six years ago. Add to that the mixed-to-negative word of mouth and the drop-off next weekend will be 60%+ and that's being conservative.

This franchise is over.

LOL. The Welling fanboy just got owned.

[KalMart]

Your opinion friend, nothing more. It made more than BB, both Hulk movies, FF1 AND 2, Daredevil, first X-men movie, possibly Wolverine and others.

So something else had to be the problem than just the money, no?


Not that we should be discussing SR's B.O. in this forum section anyway, mind you....lest a mod close this thread as well. :O

[Wiseman]

Your opinion friend, nothing more. It made more than BB, both Hulk movies, FF1 AND 2, Daredevil, first X-men movie, possibly Wolverine and others.

Me saying it sucked doesn't mean you have to mention movies that it grossed more than. Especially since those movies cost a lot less to make

It grossed more then a lot of movies, that doesn't make it a hit when it cost as much as it did.

[nintendo nerd]

Me saying it sucked doesn't mean you have to mention movies that it grossed more than. Especially since those movies cost a lot less to make

It grossed more then a lot of movies, that doesn't make it a hit when it cost as much as it did.

Even with the 200 million budget it made way more domestic and outside of the U.S. (except for BB).

[Superark]

So something else had to be the problem than just the money, no?


Not that we should be discussing SR's B.O. in this forum section anyway, mind you....lest a mod close this thread as well. :O

Exactly!

Let's try to keep it related to the next Superman film. I hope TS poor performance leads to WB giving more effort to Superman, since it appears one of their 2011 tentpoles is now a bust

[Wiseman]

Even with the 200 million budget it made way more domestic and outside of the U.S. (except for BB).

Again, we aren't talking about those movies because they cost less to make. Second, it was a flop domestically with how much the movie cost and how much was spent on marketing, and I know a lot of people hate to hear this but movie studios love the money they get from overseas but very rarely will they make a sequel to a movie that isn't considered a hit domestically. That's a fact.

[Lighthouse]

In all fairness though, I don't really think it was TS or Watchmen's fault that there wasn't a sequel to Superman in the works, I think it was cause the first one kinda sucked...a lot.

Your opinion friend, nothing more. It made more than BB, both Hulk movies, FF1 AND 2, Daredevil, first X-men movie, possibly Wolverine and others.

I remember this song. I think the third verse is "Showtime shakes his head, sighs in frustration contemplating how many of these he's had to do and how many more he'll have to do later, and presses the worn down 'Close Thread' button".

[nintendo nerd]

Exactly!

Let's try to keep it related to the next Superman film. I hope TS poor performance leads to WB giving more effort to Superman, since it appears one of their 2011 tentpoles is now a bust

Agreed. My bad.

[Superark]

edit

[nintendo nerd]

I remember this song. I think the third verse is "Showtime shakes his head and sighs, and presses the worn down 'Close Thread' button".

Its hard not to mention SR, because the fan base is so divided. It's not like if everyone loved/hated the film. This is the first time I've seen a movie doing that.

[KalMart]

Exactly!

Let's try to keep it related to the next Superman film.
Which is kinda' hard to do without acknowledging what brought about the fact that there won't be one for a while. :O

I hope TS poor performance leads to WB giving more effort to Superman, since it appears one of their 2011 tentpoles is now a bust
I hope that the next Superman movie is motivated by positive reinforcement, and not cold comfort taken in other movies not doing well. I'd like to think that they look to movies like BB/TDK, Iron Man, Transformers, Spidey 1&2, and Star Trek as something to aspire to, rather than looking at movies like Daredevil and Fanstastic Four and saying "At least we did better than them".

[Lighthouse]

Its hard not to mention SR, because the fan base is so divided. It's not like if everyone loved/hated the film. This is the first time I've seen a movie doing that.

But this happens EVERY SINGLE THREAD! When Wiseman said how much SR sucked, I suddenly became Casandra of Troy. First, comes the statement, "SR sucks", then comes "SR was great, critics liked it, it made more money that Batman Begins" then "Batman Begins had a smaller budget, SR was 270million" then "It wasn't 270, 70 of it was spent on previous versions, and the marketing sucked" and it keeps going and going and going like a coked up Energizer bunny.

[KalMart]

Its hard not to mention SR, because the fan base is so divided. It's not like if everyone loved/hated the film. This is the first time I've seen a movie doing that.

Lots of movies do that. The Star Wars prequels weren't exactly universally loved by all Star Wars fans. But then, it didn't suffer the kind of pride-bruising embarrassment of not continuing on while others did....which kinda' has a way of exacerbating things. It's a rather common sociological pattern. :O

[nintendo nerd]

But this happens EVERY SINGLE THREAD! When Wiseman said how much SR sucked, I suddenly became Casandra of Troy. First, comes the statement, "SR sucks", then comes "SR was great, critics liked it, it made more money that Batman Begins" then "Batman Begins had a smaller budget, SR was 270million" then "It wasn't 270, 70 of it was spent on previous versions" and it keeps going and going and going like a coked up Energizer bunny.

Unfortunately, this will never end until we get news of the next movie and what the hell is going on. No matter how many threads ger closed. This will go on and on. And I accept I have started a lot of fights in here. I'll try my best not to happen again.

[Superark]

Which is kinda' hard to do without acknowledging what brought about the fact that there won't be one for a while. :O


I hope that the next Superman movie is motivated by positive reinforcement, and not cold comfort taken in other movies not doing well. I'd like to think that they look to movies like BB/TDK, Iron Man, Transformers, Spidey 1&2, and Star Trek as something to aspire to, rather than looking at movies like Daredevil and Fanstastic Four and saying "At least we did better than them".

I'm a bit more on the optimistic side, depite the recent lack of news, when it comes to Superman on film. :yay:

But I too hope WB aspires to make a great Superman film. At the same time, I hope they realize that they have a nice opening for Superman in place of Terminator for 2011. I'm of the opinion that a Superman film with a decent story, lots of action, and a super-villian will make huge bank, whether its a sequel, reboot, routhboot

[nintendo nerd]

Lots of movies do that. The Star Wars prequels weren't exactly universally loved by all Star Wars fans. But then, it didn't suffer the kind of pride-bruising embarrassment of not continuing on while others did....which kinda' has a way of exacerbating things.

Maybe because they know, there won't be anymore Star Wars films. Or because they have to follow certain continuity. But Superman on the other hand is a different beast. There has been dozens of interpretations and everyone of us wants something different.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

But this happens EVERY SINGLE THREAD! When Wiseman said how much SR sucked, I suddenly became Casandra of Troy. First, comes the statement, "SR sucks", then comes "SR was great, critics liked it, it made more money that Batman Begins" then "Batman Begins had a smaller budget, SR was 270million" then "It wasn't 270, 70 of it was spent on previous versions, and the marketing sucked" and it keeps going and going and going like a coked up Energizer bunny.Holly f**k I love this post.

[Superark]

But this happens EVERY SINGLE THREAD! When Wiseman said how much SR sucked, I suddenly became Casandra of Troy. First, comes the statement, "SR sucks", then comes "SR was great, critics liked it, it made more money that Batman Begins" then "Batman Begins had a smaller budget, SR was 270million" then "It wasn't 270, 70 of it was spent on previous versions, and the marketing sucked" and it keeps going and going and going like a coked up Energizer bunny.

:up: you are the man!

This is actually an interesting thread/topic that can be discussed yet the hater/supporters of SR always let battles get in the way

[KalMart]

Maybe because they know, there won't be anymore Star Wars films. Or because they have to follow certain continuity. But Superman on the other hand is a different beast. There has been dozens of interpretations and everyone of us wants something different.

I think it's a combination of fan-pride being hurt, the harsh realization of familiarity not automatically meaning popularity, and envy....over one's favorite character, who's supposedly the 'hero of heros', not being the cat's meow in a peak time for comic-movies. All groups of fans have differences within their own communities.....but when they're all left in the dust, they need someone to blame. Sometimes the nearest one is the most convenient. Other times you try and pick a demon. For a group of German socialists in the 1930's, it was the Jews. Today, it could be Western civilization as a whole.....or maybe just a movie studio. :O

[dark_b]

whait a minute. TS will bomb?

i need to whait 2 weeks(Sony)

[matrix_ghost]

Are you still sure that there's not a place for Superman?

Watchmen
Production Budget: $150 million
Domestic: $107,483,804 58.8%
+ Foreign: $75,225,483 41.2%
= Worldwide: $182,709,287

Terminator Salvation
Production Budget: $200 million
Domestic: $56,382,000

Superman Returns after its first week-end did $66,795,937
I wonder if it's really impossible to imagine a better performance for the supposed "Man of Steel".

"Watchmen will do great!"
"Terminator Salvation and its sequels will do billions. Superman is useless".
At this point if the Hobbit failed, at WB they would be in trouble.

It's clear that they have canned the Superman franchise without a single good reason, and I wonder if now (after that a TS sequel is not sure anymore) there is a place for it.

Shush ITA-KAL EL :oldrazz:
Everybody knows that WB's decision to release the next POtter movie this years instead of nov. '08 was because of the (feared) performance of Watchmen and Terminator. I'm sure other people saw that as well. There are very few movies that are sure fire blockbusters before they're even released. Recent examples of this are 300 , Transformers and Star Trek. Although movies may look good when thy're being promoted by releasing clips , trailetc etc , in the end you really don't need how a movie might perform untill the movie actually is released . Watchmen and Terminator fall in that last category. I think it was the summer of 2006 when WB really felt the absence of movies like Potter with so many of their high profile movies not making the $$$ ( Superman Returns and Poseidon). So naturally they learned their lesson.

Summer '08 started bad for WB with Speed Racer bombing financially however they got their money with TDK's success. Because the Potter movies have always been a goldmine for WB ( so much so that they can cancel the negative BO results from other movies) , i feel that WB's doesn't need to worry about Supermans return just to compensate losses .

2009-2010-2011. 3 years with a Potter movie being released each year.
There was talk that WB was trying to release superhero movies fone franchise 3 years apart so that would've meant that we'd see the next Batman movie in 2011. But given that Nolan is doing Inception ( which judging from reports seems to be a bigger picture then the small-scale Prestige ) for a summer 2010 release , my guess is that next Batman movie will come out in 2012.

Although we haven't heard nothing from WB regarding an active development for a Superman sequel , WB could technically release the next Superman movie in 2013.
However personally i'd rather seem them release the next superman movie in 2012 IF at least Batman 3 is also released in 2012 simply going by the logic that Batman 3 will most likely perform very well.
2011 could've also been a good year but WB is releasing the last Potter movie in July , Green Lantern in June and Happy Feet 2 in November. The first superman movie also came out in december if i'm not mistaken but IMO WB should be smart enough not to screw up their own movies by releasing them so lose to each other. Happy Feet performend very well during the nov.-dec period.

It's really a question of how WB wants the Superman sequel to be but i it's anything like Superman Returns , the audience wo'n't flock to the movies. You need to have that fun/entertainment factor that made moives like the POTC trilogy , Transformers & spider-man such a such a FINANCIAL success/

[KalMart]

whait a minute. TS will bomb?

Not if a whole lot of moviegoers suddenly start liking it a lot, spreading good word of mouth as to how good it was, and get more people to go see it. Of course, the movie will have to do its part first. :cwink:

[dark_b]

It's really a question of how WB wants the Superman sequel to be but i it's anything like Superman Returns , the audience wo'n't flock to the movies. You need to have that fun/entertainment factor that made moives like the POTC trilogy , Transformers & spider-man such a such a FINANCIAL success/i hope it will be an entertaining and fun movie.

[Ita-KalEl]

:facepalm

Do you people really think this changes in anyway WB's viewpoint on Superman Returns? Really?

Superman Returns? We are discussing about the Superman franchise.

[Ita-KalEl]

But this happens EVERY SINGLE THREAD! When Wiseman said how much SR sucked, I suddenly became Casandra of Troy. First, comes the statement, "SR sucks", then comes "SR was great, critics liked it, it made more money that Batman Begins" then "Batman Begins had a smaller budget, SR was 270million" then "It wasn't 270, 70 of it was spent on previous versions, and the marketing sucked" and it keeps going and going and going like a coked up Energizer bunny.

I repeat: we are talking about the future of the Superman Franchise (sequel or reboot), not about Superman Returns.
I know that you don't like this thread, but do we have only to talk about the "casting" of the supposed reboot forever?
Till yesterday filmnerdjamie wrote that Summer 2011 is occupied by the T:S sequel. I wonder only if it has changed and if there is a chance that someone at WB can think that maybe Superman can be reintroduced in less than 3 years.

[matrix_ghost]

I repeat: we are talking about the future of the Superman Franchise (sequel or reboot), not about Superman Returns.
I know that you don't like this thread, but do we have only to talk about the "casting" of the supposed reboot forever?
Till yesterday filmnerdjamie wrote that Summer 2011 is occupied by the T:S sequel. I wonder only if it has changed and if there is a chance that someone at WB can think that maybe Superman can be reintroduced in less than 3 years.

:huh:
2011 could've also been a good year but WB is releasing the last Potter movie in July , Green Lantern in June and Happy Feet 2 in November.

[FilmNerdJamie]

I've been of the opinion for the past 2 weeks that Salvation would under-perform and this would be it for the franchise. Increasingly advanced "Meh!" word-of-mouth mixed with the insane popularity and success of Star Trek.

That said, I still thought it would at the very least win the weekend box-office (i.e. around $75 million!)

[dark_b]

i guess good word of mouth and realese date really matters :hehe:

[Superark]

I've been of the opinion for the past 2 weeks that Salvation would under-perform and this would be it for the franchise. Increasingly advanced "Meh!" word-of-mouth mixed with the insane popularity and success of Star Trek.

That said, I still thought it would at the very least win the weekend box-office (i.e. around $75 million!)

So do you think this might give Superman more of an opening for 2011 now?

[RachelDawes]

Its hard not to mention SR, because the fan base is so divided. It's not like if everyone loved/hated the film. This is the first time I've seen a movie doing that.

There seems to be a similar pattern in the TS thread. There are a lot of 7, 8, and even the occasional 9/10s, but also quite a few people saying "This movie stunk! I'm glad it's the end of the series."

[RachelDawes]

I repeat: we are talking about the future of the Superman Franchise (sequel or reboot), not about Superman Returns.
I know that you don't like this thread, but do we have only to talk about the "casting" of the supposed reboot forever?
Till yesterday filmnerdjamie wrote that Summer 2011 is occupied by the T:S sequel. I wonder only if it has changed and if there is a chance that someone at WB can think that maybe Superman can be reintroduced in less than 3 years.

Maybe. Didn't Jamie say that WB met with Singer as late as November 08 to discuss a sequel to SR? The disappointment of TS could get them thinking about it again.

[KalMart]

Maybe. Didn't Jamie say that WB met with Singer as late as November 08 to discuss a sequel to SR? The disappointment of TS could get them thinking about it again.

But then, the disappointment of SR could make them think twice. :O It's kinda' tough to ask someone to compensate for something disappointing with something a little less disappointing.

[KalMart]

I repeat: we are talking about the future of the Superman Franchise (sequel or reboot), not about Superman Returns.
I know that you don't like this thread, but do we have only to talk about the "casting" of the supposed reboot forever?
Till yesterday filmnerdjamie wrote that Summer 2011 is occupied by the T:S sequel. I wonder only if it has changed and if there is a chance that someone at WB can think that maybe Superman can be reintroduced in less than 3 years.

Or they might use 2011 for a Terminator reboot...since they already have the slot. :O

[I SEE SPIDEY]

TS has nothing to do with the Superman franchise.

The fanboys are really reaching this time.

[nintendo nerd]

There seems to be a similar pattern in the TS thread. There are a lot of 7, 8, and even the occasional 9/10s, but also quite a few people saying "This movie stunk! I'm glad it's the end of the series."

I think is the hype and the excitement of a new Terminator movie and seeing it on the big screen that so many people are praising it right now. But IMO in a couple of months fans will realise it was as bad as T3 ( haven't seen the movie,though). Something similar happened with Spider - man 3 and FF2, when they were just realeased people were loving those films, at the spidey forums some were even saying it was the best of the trilogy and giving it 9 and 10.

But SR was released 3 years ago!!!! And we are still talking about it the same way, there's no ending. IMO the only way this will be over is if they announce a reboot with Brandon Routh on the leading role. That way people that hated the movie probably will get the film they wanted and the ones who loved it, at least get to see Routh again. At least Iknow I would be happy.

[KalMart]

I think is the hype and the excitement of a new Terminator movie and seeing it on the big screen that so many people are praising it right now. But IMO in a couple of months fans will realise it was as bad as T3 ( haven't seen the movie,though). Something similar happened with Spider - man 3 and FF2, when they were just realeased people were loving those films, at the spidey forums some were even saying it was the best of the trilogy and giving it 9 and 10.

But SR was released 3 years ago!!!! And we are still talking about it the same way, there's no ending. IMO the only way this will be over is if they announce a reboot with Brandon Routh on the leading role. That way people that hated the movie probably will get the film they wanted and the ones who loved it, at least get to see Routh again. At least Iknow I would be happy.

I don't think there should be any intent to 'appease' some of this and some of that. If it's a reboot...then it's a completely new start leaving everything in the past...in the past. The new movie should be taken as it is and judged/accepted only on what it does and establishes going forward. If it's not Routh, then it just isn't...it's a different story anyway. the less ties it has to prior versions, even in casting, the better for it to start fresh.

[Mostpowerful]

But SR was released 3 years ago!!!! And we are still talking about it the same way, there's no ending. IMO the only way this will be over is if they announce a reboot with Brandon Routh on the leading role. That way people that hated the movie probably will get the film they wanted and the ones who loved it, at least get to see Routh again. At least Iknow I would be happy.

Me too.


I don't think there should be any intent to 'appease' some of this and some of that. If it's a reboot...then it's a completely new start leaving everything in the past...in the past. The new movie should be taken as it is and judged/accepted only on what it does and establishes going forward. If it's not Routh, then it just isn't...it's a different story anyway. the less ties it has to prior versions, even in casting, the better for it to start fresh.

Well, nintendo, myself and many others think differently than you, and no matter what you say, we are not going to change our minds. We like what we like, just like you, Kalmart. You really seem to want to change people's minds..

[NeoRanger]

But SR was released 3 years ago!!!! And we are still talking about it the same way, there's no ending. IMO the only way this will be over is if they announce a reboot with Brandon Routh on the leading role. That way people that hated the movie probably will get the film they wanted and the ones who loved it, at least get to see Routh again. At least Iknow I would be happy.

The only way this will be over is if we FINALLY get a new Superman movie. I highly doubt any serious Superman fan will still be arguing over SR after another film has been released-- unless, of course, it ends up sucking worse. But unless that's the case, Routh or no Routh, SR will get stuck in the past like all things, you know, over and done are supposed to be; then we'll finally be done with this.

The main reason why Routh's still in the running is because they like him, not because you do.

[NeoRanger]

You really seem to want to change people's minds..

By GOD, you're right! I can see the subliminal message all over that post of his. KalMAAAAAAAART!

[Excel]

Terminators failure clearly doesnt come as a shock to W.B. The argument would be "Well, they pushed Batman from 2011 to 2012 so T5 could go there, now thats not happening", however Warners DID just move Green Lantern to summer 2011. With Harry Potter winding down, here is W.B. 's tentative schedule, atleast that I can forsee. Again, like 2010, they can and will pull a film out of their ass ala "Inception" and make it as a tent pole, but heres the way it looks.

2010: Inception
2011: GreenLantern
2012: Batman
2013: Green Lantern
2014: Green Lantern

GL could go in either 2013 or 2014; IF Superman is going to be on the big screen any time soon, all signs point to one of those years. Knowing W.B., 2013 looks like the earliest.

However, next thing you know, we'll be hearing about a "Matrix Rebooted" film instead.

If Obama's presidency turns out to be a bust.....should the US re-elect George Bush? Is there a place for George Bush in our future?

:lmao:

[KalMart]

Well, nintendo, myself and many others think differently than you, and no matter what you say, we are not going to change our minds. We like what we like, just like you, Kalmart. You really seem to want to change people's minds..
No, I have no intention or desire to change your mind at all. Simply posting my outlook the same as you are. Are you looking to change anyone's mind? Or are you just bothered that someone else doesn't share your outlook?


But just consider this......if this wasn't your favorite character or what have you....say it was some other comic character....and they were looking to reboot....wouldn't you think a new lead would help in rebooting/restarting the whole thing? And I actually liked Routh as Superman. But what I find more important is starting from scratch with no preconceptions when it comes to a reboot. It lets the audience take everything in from there on forward, instead of adjusting with the reminder that the lead actor is the same as the other story....and you'd like to forget that there was another story altogether if this is a reboot. I think the importance of the film/franchise from there forward outweighs sentimental attachment to the former actor. They not only have to shake Routh/Singer...but also Reeve/Donner as well. the less they have to associate with that, the better off they'll be as a new start.

So I'm not trying to change your mind, it's just that we seem to differ on what's most important for whatever new Superman movie is to come.

[RachelDawes]

I think is the hype and the excitement of a new Terminator movie and seeing it on the big screen that so many people are praising it right now. But IMO in a couple of months fans will realise it was as bad as T3 ( haven't seen the movie,though). Something similar happened with Spider - man 3 and FF2, when they were just realeased people were loving those films, at the spidey forums some were even saying it was the best of the trilogy and giving it 9 and 10.

I've heard SR got a similar reaction on these boards.

But SR was released 3 years ago!!!! And we are still talking about it the same way, there's no ending. IMO the only way this will be over is if they announce a reboot with Brandon Routh on the leading role. That way people that hated the movie probably will get the film they wanted and the ones who loved it, at least get to see Routh again. At least Iknow I would be happy.

I would like a Routhboot but I don't think that's what we're going to get.

[KalMart]

At the same time....what people are saying here has as much influence or relevance to the next Superman movie as.....well.....Terminator Salvation does. :O

[RachelDawes]

At the same time....what people are saying here has as much influence or relevance to the next Superman movie as.....well.....Terminator Salvation does. :O

I don't think many people here believe what we say will impact the next movie. It's just fun to share opinions on Superman.

[GreenKToo]

I wouldnt mind Routh back in a reboot, but I do think it would be best to get a new actor in the role.

The GA won't be following the new film on the internet like we will be, waiting for every single little tidbit of info to be released. They will have no idea if it's a reboot, sequel, prequel, or whatever. Why wouldnt they think it was a sequel with routh there tho.

I mean do we really wanna be sitting here (again) after the reboot, wondering why its not getting a sequel either? I say give it the best chance(s) possible to succeed. And if that means a new actor in the role of Superman, then so be it.
I sometimes wonder if some folks are more of a fan of the actor than the actual character.

[FilmNerdJamie]

What does Terminator: Salvation being a box-office under-performer mean to the Superman franchise? At the end of the day, it makes WB increasingly appreciate the fact that Returns was still able to churn out $200 million when Salvation will struggle to hit $120 million and Watchmen barely got past $100 million.

So do you think this might give Superman more of an opening for 2011 now?

Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Doubtful.

[Ita-KalEl]

What does Terminator: Salvation being a box-office under-performer mean to the Superman franchise? At the end of the day, it makes WB increasingly appreciate the fact that Returns was still able to churn out $200 million when Salvation will struggle to hit $120 million and Watchmen barely got past $100 million.



Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Doubtful.

I agree with you.

[Matt]

Granted we already know you have no idea what you're talking about. That said, T4 opened not only below projections but also less than T3 did six years ago. Add to that the mixed-to-negative word of mouth and the drop-off next weekend will be 60%+ and that's being conservative.

This franchise is terminated.

Fixed. Sorry couldn't resist :cwink:

[dark_b]

ha ha ha ha

[Matt]

Exactly!

Let's try to keep it related to the next Superman film. I hope TS poor performance leads to WB giving more effort to Superman, since it appears one of their 2011 tentpoles is now a bust

But right now there is no script, no director, no cast, no crew, no sets, etc. Could the studio really get this out by 2011 without rushing the hell out of it? And wouldn't that effect quality? I'd rather they do a Superman movie right than say, "Hey! We have no Summer 2011 tentpole! Lets throw together a quick Superman movie!"

Besides, Warners DOES have a 2011 tentpole. A movie that will likely be the biggest of the summer. The FINAL Harry Potter movie. If they want another one, I think their best move at this point would be to really try to push Batman 3 forward. Its not as effects driven so post-production shouldn't take as long and they already have sets, I assume. Plus I'm guessing that a script has been kicking around the Nolan brothers heads (and maybe an outline is already on paper) for awhile now.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Besides, Warners DOES have a 2011 tentpole. A movie that will likely be the biggest of the year. The FINAL Harry Potter movie.

Fixed. :oldrazz:

[dark_b]

Matt i am no expert but i think no matter what .....the superman movie will come out when WB will not have a specific tentpole movie in some summer.

[Superark]

What does Terminator: Salvation being a box-office under-performer mean to the Superman franchise? At the end of the day, it makes WB increasingly appreciate the fact that Returns was still able to churn out $200 million when Salvation will struggle to hit $120 million and Watchmen barely got past $100 million.



Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Doubtful.

I know before you were saying/guessing the next Superman film might come out in 2011. I guess that has changed. So are you now of the assumption that 2012 is the target or is that wishful thinking too?

[Matt]

Fixed. :oldrazz:

:hehe: Touche.

[Superark]

But right now there is no script, no director, no cast, no crew, no sets, etc. Could the studio really get this out by 2011 without rushing the hell out of it? And wouldn't that effect quality? I'd rather they do a Superman movie right than say, "Hey! We have no Summer 2011 tentpole! Lets throw together a quick Superman movie!"

Besides, Warners DOES have a 2011 tentpole. A movie that will likely be the biggest of the summer. The FINAL Harry Potter movie. If they want another one, I think their best move at this point would be to really try to push Batman 3 forward. Its not as effects driven so post-production shouldn't take as long and they already have sets, I assume. Plus I'm guessing that a script has been kicking around the Nolan brothers heads (and maybe an outline is already on paper) for awhile now.

Well at this point I guess I'm not expecting them to turn out a Superman movie in 2011. But if WB wanted a quality Superman movie (and actually the next one will be smaller in terms of production and budget) out by summer 2011, they could. Remember Singer made his pitch for Superman in the summer of 2004 and we got a movie in summer 2006. So it can be done if WB was given a pitch

But you made a great point about Harry Potter. I forgot about that movie.

[Matt]

By the way guys, I think if there is going to be an effect caused by the recent big budget failures such as Wolvie, Watchmen, and Terminator, I think studios are going to be looking at Taken, not another big budget disappointment. Taken was a movie that was made for piss cheap, and has grossed nearly 150 million domestically, another 75 mil internationally, has outgrossed Watchmen, and stands a chance of outgrossing Terminator. I can't help but think studios are going to start leaning towards going back to making smaller budget, smaller scale, traditional action movies and try to emulate Taken's success.

[Excel]

Basically, 2013 or 2014- whichever year doesnt have a Green Lantern Sequel planned - is the best bet for the next Supes film, and thats a reach at that.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Green Lantern sequel? Granted nobody takes you seriously any way, but still...:whatever:. The studio is casting the first film right now and has major hurtles ahead of them for that production. So it's way too early to be talking (or in your case; assuming out of your rear-end) about Green Lantern II.

As for Batman III, it's nowhere near "the sure thing" many keep saying it is. That is to say there will be a third Batman installment and it will most-likely have Christian Bale in the cape and cowl again. Everything beyond that (including the release date, whether or not Nolan is coming back, etc.) is big question-mark.

Personally, I think Nolan is coming back and it'll be 2012. At the same time, I could imagine it coming a year or so later than that only if Nolan really wants to take his sweet-ass time developing it. And by the way Warner Brothers has been patient with him so far, it's not that far-fetched - although I doubt that happens.

[Matt]

Green Lantern sequel? Granted nobody takes you seriously any way, but still...:whatever:. The studio is casting the first film right now and has major hurtles ahead of them for that production. So it's way too early to be talking (or in your case; assuming out of your rear-end) about Green Lantern II.

As for Batman III, it's nowhere near "the sure thing" many keep saying it is. That is to say there will be a third Batman installment and it will most-likely have Christian Bale in the cape and cowl again. Everything beyond that (including the release date, whether or not Nolan is coming back, etc.) is big question-mark.

Personally, I think Nolan is coming back and it'll be 2012. At the same time, I could imagine it coming a year or so later than that only if Nolan really wants to take his sweet-ass time developing it. And by the way Warner Brothers has been patient with him so far, it's not that far-fetched - although I doubt that happens.

Which is why, IMO, Warners should just throw an ungodly amount of money at Nolan to convince him to get off his ass and make it for 2011. Will money buy convince him to move? Who knows, but it would be nice to have something alongside Potter.

[FilmNerdJamie]

WB is probably thinking to themselves, "We've got Potter for the summer. So we're good to go overall!" Of course, they'll want 2-3 tentpoles to represent each of the "big" months for the Summer box-office.

As for Batman III, there's no way for it to be realistically churned out for 2011 if Nolan is going do it. He's already up to his eyeballs on Inception for July 2010 (which I personally think will be pushed back to later in the Fall, but maybe that's just me!)

[Superark]

WB is probably thinking to themselves, "We've got Potter for the summer. So we're good to go overall!" Of course, they'll want 2-3 tentpoles to represent each of the "big" months for the Summer box-office.

As for Batman III, there's no way for it to be realistically churned out for 2011 if Nolan is going do it. He's already up to his eyeballs on Inception for July 2010 (which I personally think will be pushed back to later in the Fall, but maybe that's just me!)

So I guess that means no Superman in the next few years. That sucks!

[Showtime]

Watchmen and Terminator obviously didn't perform well against their budgets. There will now not be a Terminator sequel because this movie is not going to even come close to it's budget.

That being said it is all about perception. Star Trek will probably end up making between 220 Million - 230 Million domestically, if not more. The budget for Star Trek was around 218 Million. Let's say Star Trek makes 220 Million, that is only 2 million more than it's budget and overseas it is not doing gangbusters. It will end up making less than Superman Returns WW.

Perception.

In regards to WB, I believe WB has "won the year" at the box office in both 2007 and 2008, I'd have to double check. Despite the not so successful run of Watchmen and soon to be not so successful run of Terminator, WB has a good chance to win the year again.

I am still at the same point I have been for many months. WB WANTS to make a Superman movie sometime soon, but they don't NEED to.

[Wiseman]

By the way guys, I think if there is going to be an effect caused by the recent big budget failures such as Wolvie, Watchmen, and Terminator, I think studios are going to be looking at Taken, not another big budget disappointment. Taken was a movie that was made for piss cheap, and has grossed nearly 150 million domestically, another 75 mil internationally, has outgrossed Watchmen, and stands a chance of outgrossing Terminator. I can't help but think studios are going to start leaning towards going back to making smaller budget, smaller scale, traditional action movies and try to emulate Taken's success.

I concur

[FilmNerdJamie]

By the way guys, I think if there is going to be an effect caused by the recent big budget failures such as Wolvie, Watchmen, and Terminator, I think studios are going to be looking at Taken, not another big budget disappointment. Taken was a movie that was made for piss cheap, and has grossed nearly 150 million domestically, another 75 mil internationally, has outgrossed Watchmen, and stands a chance of outgrossing Terminator. I can't help but think studios are going to start leaning towards going back to making smaller budget, smaller scale, traditional action movies and try to emulate Taken's success.

They already are, I believe. The box-office successes of Taken, Grand Torino, Valkyrie, Slumdog Millionaire, etc. has finally dawned on studio executives that, "Hey people over the 18-39 male demographic actually go to the movies too! Who woulda thunk it?!?" ****in morons.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Watchmen and Terminator obviously didn't perform well against their budgets. There will now not be a Terminator sequel because this movie is not going to even come close to it's budget.

That being said it is all about perception. Star Trek will probably end up making between 220 Million - 230 Million domestically, if not more. The budget for Star Trek was around 218 Million. Let's say Star Trek makes 220 Million, that is only 2 million more than it's budget and overseas it is not doing gangbusters. It will end up making less than Superman Returns WW.

Perception.

In regards to WB, I believe WB has "won the year" at the box office in both 2007 and 2008, I'd have to double check. Despite the not so successful run of Watchmen and soon to be not so successful run of Terminator, WB has a good chance to win the year again.

I am still at the same point I have been for many months. WB WANTS to make a Superman movie sometime soon, but they don't NEED to.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv243/FilmNerdJamie/hammer-nail.jpg

[Lighthouse]

That being said it is all about perception. Star Trek will probably end up making between 220 Million - 230 Million domestically, if not more. The budget for Star Trek was around 218 Million. Let's say Star Trek makes 220 Million, that is only 2 million more than it's budget and overseas it is not doing gangbusters. It will end up making less than Superman Returns WW.

Where are you getting the 218 million budget? Everywhere I've looked says the budget was around 160 million.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/weekend-prediction-star-trek-65m/

As for international where the reimagined Star Trek really needs to show strength to set it apart from the disappointing foreign takes of its predecessors, rival studios are telling me the overseas openings "weren't that hot". And, remember, Star Trek's budget was $165M.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/j-j-abrams-reveals-his-star-trek-movie/

The unspoken but understood message: if Mr. Abrams’s “Star Trek” is going to justify its estimated $150 million budget, it had better reach beyond the die-hard fans of Vulcans, Tribbles and dilithium crystals.

I'm not saying your wrong, but I can't find anywhere a story that says its 218 million.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Studios lie all.the.time! about how much it cost to produce a film. Benjamin Button was in excess of $250 million (I know that for a fact) and yet it's only being listed as $160 million officially.

All you have to do is look at Star Trek to know it was a $200+ million production.

[nintendo nerd]

Studios lie all.the.time! about how much it cost to produce a film. Benjamin Button was in excess of $250 million (I know that for a fact) and yet it's only being listed as $160 million officially.

All you have to do is look at Star Trek to know it was a $200+ million production.

So what was the real budget for SR? Not counting failed project.

[Excel]

Treks overseas gross is pathetic, but wont make them think twice about a 2nd. ST is going to be the biggest film of May and will very likely top 250 million in the U.S.; even if it cant break 150 overseas the U.S. popularity will warrant another.

Green Lantern sequel? Granted nobody takes you seriously any way, but still...:whatever:.

And you are...??

The studio is casting the first film right now and has major hurtles ahead of them for that production. So it's way too early to be talking (or in your case; assuming out of your rear-end) about Green Lantern II.

Please; Warner Brothers obviously sees Green Lantern as something more than just a single film. It does have hurdles, but the fact theyve given it a release date should signal its very likely to happen. Its due summer 2011. It would only make sense that W.B.-if they plan on making a sequel to it-would have it out in either summer 2013 or summer 2014. That isnt far fetched at all to assume. OBVIOUSLY if Green Lantern hits unforseen problems, that date isnt going to happen; but if everything goes as currently planed (which doesnt usually happen), that is a realistic looking slate.


Everything beyond that (including the release date, whether or not Nolan is coming back, etc.) is big question-mark.

Please. Anybody who honestly thinks Nolan isnt going to come back is kidding themselves, the same way some select fools thought he wouldnt return for TDK. Its understandable that he wanted to make a dif. film in between, but he'll be back. If anybody really believes he'll let his billion dollar critics baby get into someone elses hands, they're delusional.

Personally, I think Nolan is coming back and it'll be 2012. At the same time, I could imagine it coming a year or so later than that only if Nolan really wants to take his sweet-ass time developing it. And by the way Warner Brothers has been patient with him so far, it's not that far-fetched - although I doubt that happens.

The word fomr lr was they only agreed to make Inception if he would make Batman for 2012. They wont be wait a year longer. Batman 3 WILL be out in 2012, you can pretty much take that to the bank. They wont have a 5 year wait.

Which is why, IMO, Warners should just throw an ungodly amount of money at Nolan to convince him to get off his ass and make it for 2011. Will money buy convince him to move? Who knows, but it would be nice to have something alongside Potter.

Thats what they should have done months ago, however thats out of the question now. Nolans doing Inception and wont be done fulltime work on that until early 2010 at the very earliest. Maybe if they REALLY wanted 2011 they could get out for Holidays, but that would be a reach.

[Ita-KalEl]

I am still at the same point I have been for many months. WB WANTS to make a Superman movie sometime soon, but they don't NEED to.

They still don't need to, but things can change. Superman was considered needless after the success of 300 ($456m ww with a budget of $65m) and Transformers ($708,272,592 ww with a budget of $150m).

IMO it's clear that Watchmen is 300's son and Terminator: Salvation is WB's answer to Transformers. They both have failed, so since 2007-2008 something has already changed. Maybe not enough for Superman, but in two years we'll see the last Harry Potter movie, and I doubt that Batman can be considered a 5-6 movies franchise.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Treks overseas gross is pathetic,

You just proved how clueless you are - especially in terms of box-office. The Trek franchise has never been huge internationally. The fact that this new film will end up with around $100 million overseas is solid as Hell.

And you are...??

Someone with a brain and knows what he's talking about - i.e. not you.

[Showtime]

This isn't the Star Trek thread. I shouldn't have brought it up.

ENOUGH.

[Excel]

You just proved how clueless you are - especially in terms of box-office.

:dry: Excuse me? I may not help work on some joke back to the future site, but I do know a damn large amount about the box office and how it works; seeing these comoc book posters attempt to tell me Im "clueless" about something I've followed and discussed for nearly a decade is laughable; when it comes to box office knowledge the last thing I am is "clueless" broseph; I dont need to work for a wannabe hype website to know that anytime overseas accounts for 1/3 of a films worldwide gross, its not exactly "solid".

The Trek franchise has never been huge internationally. The fact that this new film will end up with around $100 million overseas is solid as Hell.

Its overseas take will account for a smaller % of its worldwide total than previous Trek films, the fact that it is 100 million doesnt mean anything due to inflation; it still equals less ticket sales overseas than previous films. I thought you knew what you were talking about?

Someone with a brain and knows what he's talking about - i.e. not you.

Infaction ftw? Wheres a mod when you need one?

Besides, you've shown no evidence of a functioning brain, and what do you know? That Warner Brothers spends a lot more on their tentpoles than they tell us? Wow, I am very impressed. You think because you right articles about what hype Superman fans think that makes you an expert? The reality is you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to anything reguarding the box office. End of discussion.

[FilmNerdJamie]

I would recommend you not saying anything until you either grow a brain or learn to know what you're talking about. Thus noone will ever have to hear from you again.

[SuperDaniel]

Easy guys!

[Showtime]

:dry: Excuse me? I may not help work on some joke back to the future site, but I do know a damn large amount about the box office and how it works; seeing these comoc book posters attempt to tell me Im "clueless" about something I've followed and discussed for nearly a decade is laughable; when it comes to box office knowledge the last thing I am is "clueless" broseph; I dont need to work for a wannabe hype website to know that anytime overseas accounts for 1/3 of a films worldwide gross, its not exactly "solid".



Its overseas take will account for a smaller % of its worldwide total than previous Trek films, the fact that it is 100 million doesnt mean anything due to inflation; it still equals less ticket sales overseas than previous films. I thought you knew what you were talking about?



Infaction ftw? Wheres a mod when you need one?

Besides, you've shown no evidence of a functioning brain, and what do you know? That Warner Brothers spends a lot more on their tentpoles than they tell us? Wow, I am very impressed. You think because you right articles about what hype Superman fans think that makes you an expert? The reality is you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to anything reguarding the box office. End of discussion.

This isn't a box office thread. I told you both to stop.

I just gave Jamie an infraction for flaming, do you want to continue this and get one as well?

Just an FYI Excel, that is 50% my site so watch yourself.

[Excel]

Im sorry, show, my bad.

[KalMart]

IMO it's clear that Watchmen is 300's son and Terminator: Salvation is WB's answer to Transformers. They both have failed, so since 2007-2008 something has already changed. Maybe not enough for Superman, but in two years we'll see the last Harry Potter movie, and I doubt that Batman can be considered a 5-6 movies franchise.

"The plan is just to reintroduce Terminator...."

[GreenKToo]

I dont care about it near as much as I did. I guess the wait has caused that. What ever happens, happens.
Anyway, I guess we can look forward to G.L.

[KalMart]

There's more Iron Man and Avengers on the horizon as well, so the comic-genre looks to still be running pretty strong, even though Xmen and Spidey have had their run.

[Excel]

I would be shocked if most if any of the Marvel films that are currently planned outside of Iron Man make their current release dates.

[Blackman]

This is turning into
"The Plan is just to Reintroduce Superman..." pt. 2

[KalMart]

This is turning into
"The Plan is just to Reintroduce Superman..." pt. 2

:pal:We should wait until after the next Superman move for that. :oldrazz::woot:

[dark_b]

i will admit that star trek looks very expensive. and i mean very expensive.

but if it loks expensive then why is SR so expensive? it doesnt look expensive? look i am not the guy who complains about the bad CGI cape. i think the CGI cape was actually groudnbeaking. sometimes i didnt know that he was even CGI.
but still was it really over 200 millions? maybe because of the detailed sets?

[SuperDaniel]

Corn fields...

[dark_b]

This is turning into
"The Plan is just to Reintroduce Superman..." pt. 2thats the point :pal:

[dark_b]

Corn fields...dumb me. it 3 years. i forgot.

touche :wow:

[Sawyer]

This thread is just.... ugh.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Corn fields...

...CG-enhanced Arnold body-double...

[Nightwing1977]

TS has nothing to do with the Superman franchise.

The fanboys are really reaching this time.

But are we all fanboys, including you? Well, fangirl actually. But you'll get the point......I think. :D :D

I know before you were saying/guessing the next Superman film might come out in 2011. I guess that has changed. So are you now of the assumption that 2012 is the target or is that wishful thinking too?

I think Batman 3 will be out in 2012 if Nolan does return. 2011 seem very unlikely right now so far.

This is turning into
"The Plan is just to Reintroduce Superman..." pt. 2

Someone must spin the Earth back or gave a Mod the amnesia kiss if this happend soon. :oldrazz:

[Excel]

Corn fields...

Custom grown to include the rolling mountains of Kansas...

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/superman-returns3/kent-farm.jpg

:whatever:

[Ita-KalEl]

"The plan is just to reintroduce Terminator...."

Yes, but why Terminator? Because they needed something of the Transformers genre (sci-fi, robots, etc.). T:S seems "Matrix meets Transformers".

[KalMart]

Yes, but why Terminator? Because they needed something of the Transformers genre (sci-fi, robots, etc.). T:S seems "Matrix meets Transformers".

It was a joke....i.e. their answer to SR.

[daywalker2007]

well don't the 2 guys at Halycon own the rights to Terminator?
and they didn't put up all the money. WB and someone else put up the money.

So WB didn't put everything into Terminator Salvation.
It remains to be seen what happens.
but im pretty sure international numbers for TS will be quite decent, and it will probably make a profit.

As for Man of Steel, lets see what happens.

But yeah, SR's box office of 200 million domestic doesn't seem that bad now.
Its just the budget and the dreary movie itself which cost it a sequel.

[KalMart]

But yeah, SR's box office of 200 million domestic doesn't seem that bad now.
Its just the budget and the dreary movie itself which cost it a sequel.
The other problem, though, was that it didn't look that good compared to Spidey 2's, POTC2's, Iron Man's, and TF's numbers....and the recent Watchmen and Terminator doesn't help that. When a sports team doesn't make the playoffs, they don't look to teams that did worse than they did as inspiration or to address what they need to do better...they look towards the teams that actually did better and made the playoffs.

[dark_b]

guys do you think that one of the big reasons SR made so much money was because fo the promotion and because it was superman?

[KalMart]

guys do you think that one of the big reasons SR made so much money was because fo the promotion and because it was superman?

I think the majority of yje money it did make was on the name itself...its familiarity combined with the popularity of comic movies. The reason it didn't make more was because it didn't really have anything to offer beyond the name....and for some it barely even managed that. After seeing the movie, and watching the numbers later on, I was actually quite surprised it made as much as it did.


But I think we should get off Box Office lest a mod close the thread.

[dark_b]

i didnt watch TS yet so please no spoilers. but i think those big budget movies need a good villain. something that they can promote and something that people love when watching the movie.

so maybe had it something to do with the villain? mayb just terminators is not enough?

we need for the new superman movie a very good alien villain. plus lex luthor

[KalMart]

Well...having a good villain is also about having a good plot...good dynamics provided by the conflict et al. Ledger's Joker was great in and of itself, but man.....what he did to royally F things up for everyone in that story wasn't just about the performance or makeup. It was some damn good storytelling.

Heck...even The Bridges character (Stain?) in Iron Man was a better Lex Luthor than Lex Luthor was. :O Not the most incredible story, but he seemed a lot more sinister and calculating than that other bald bad guy.

[GreenKToo]

I think the majority of yje money it did make was on the name itself...its familiarity combined with the popularity of comic movies. The reason it didn't make more was because it didn't really have anything to offer beyond the name....and for some it barely even managed that. After seeing the movie, and watching the numbers later on, I was actually quite surprised it made as much as it did.


But I think we should get off Box Office lest a mod close the thread.
I agree. IMO the name alone is why it did as well as it did. Add in a supervillain and a better storyline, and we would (probably) now be discussing the sequel instead of the ''The plan is just to Reintroduce Superman II''.

Anywho, who knows whats going through the minds of the suits at W.B., maybe they do have a plan for a new Superman film, or maybe they don't. My money is on the don't.

[Showtime]

I think the majority of yje money it did make was on the name itself...its familiarity combined with the popularity of comic movies. The reason it didn't make more was because it didn't really have anything to offer beyond the name....and for some it barely even managed that. After seeing the movie, and watching the numbers later on, I was actually quite surprised it made as much as it did.


But I think we should get off Box Office lest a mod close the thread.

...or how about you and others get off the subject of SR unless specifically related to a what is happening with a new Superman film.

Granted, I know we have no news on anything happening with a new Superman film, so I guess you need to be creative.

[dark_b]

...or how about you and others get off the subject of SR unless specifically related to a what is happening with a new Superman film.

Granted, I know we have no news on anything happening with a new Superman film, so I guess you need to be creative.wanted to start something new. i started with SR............and then lets go wit the flow :woot:


:twisted:

[GreenKToo]

Hmmmm something new and creative eh? well how about.....nah, that's been said already.
What if we......nope......been there, done that.

Hey, we could talk about taco's.:O

[Nightwing1977]

I wuv taco! :woot: :woot:

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/taco.JPG

[KalMart]

...or how about you and others get off the subject of SR unless specifically related to a what is happening with a new Superman film.

Granted, I know we have no news on anything happening with a new Superman film, so I guess you need to be creative.

Well, it is kinda' hard to talk about a new Supes film, or what a new film should be, and NOT address why it has to be a new concept/story and not a sequel in the first place. Kinda' like talking about fixing water damage and rebuilding a basement, but not mentioning the flood that took it out.

Especially in threads that start with the topic of how others movies grossed in comparison. :O

[Dark Knight]

Failed.....just like this useless thread!

[FaT_tONle]

Basically, 2013 or 2014- whichever year doesnt have a Green Lantern Sequel planned - is the best bet for the next Supes film, and thats a reach at that.

Ima go

2011 GL
2012 BB3
2013 Superman Reboot
2014 ???
2015 Crossover/Team-up movie

Way to soon to project a GL sequel, but anything is possible. Maybe 2014 can be to DC what Marvel's 2011 will be ala WW/Flash in place of Thor/Cap. But that is the next ideal lineup... although I keep having to push everything back yet another year with every year WB makes zero movement on Superman.

[Sam]

Ima go

2011 GL
2012 BB3
2013 Superman Reboot
2014 ???
2015 Crossover/Team-up movie

Way to soon to project a GL sequel, but anything is possible. Maybe 2014 can be to DC what Marvel's 2011 will be ala WW/Flash in place of Thor/Cap. But that is the next ideal lineup... although I keep having to push everything back yet another year with every year WB makes zero movement on Superman.

WB should release Superman in december, not summer season. They going to make tons of money.

[Bruce Malone]

Are you still sure that there's not a place for Superman?



Superman Returns after its first week-end did $66,795,937
I wonder if it's really impossible to imagine a better performance for the supposed "Man of Steel".


That was from its opening wednesday onwards it made $52,535,096 opening weekend

[solidsnake86]

Addressing the title of the thread it might make WB actually hire some writers, which is usually a good start if they actually want to make the film. All these pitches and I find it hard to believe they havent settled on an idea. If anything I can see them putting a superman film in the winter, they got nothing to loose.

[Kal-El Fan]

Addressing the title of the thread it might make WB actually hire some writers, which is usually a good start if they actually want to make the film. All these pitches and I find it hard to believe they havent settled on an idea. If anything I can see them putting a superman film in the winter, they got nothing to loose.
"This Christmas, Superman brings you the gift of flight."
Hey, why not? It worked the first time.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I just don't think that a Superman movie is being released in the winter months. I wouldn't have a problem with that but I just don't see it.

[KalMart]

Is a Superman movie just not capable of handling the Summer movie competition or something? Or is Winter where the real moola is, and all those other movies are crazy for picking the warmer months?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Is a Superman movie just not capable of handling the Summer movie competition or something? Or is Winter where the real moola is, and all those other movies are crazy for picking the warmer months?I don't know what all this winter talk is about, Superman could easily survive the summer, It could greatly thrive in the summer as a matter of fact.

Now again I would have no problem with a winter release but I'd perfer Superman in the summer.

[KalMart]

I would think that a well-made Superman movie would be an ideal Summer flick, no?

[NeoRanger]

It'll be probably have more... threatening competition during summer and after SR, WB may prefer to give him some space to build up excitement for the masses. That's the only reason I can think of, though it largely depends -as I see it- on what else they have for the summers of years to come.

[KalMart]

It'll be probably have more... threatening competition during summer and after SR, WB may prefer to give him some space to build up excitement for the masses. That's the only reason I can think of, though it largely depends -as I see it- on what else they have for the summers of years to come.
Sounds more like a show of weakness than going for the gold. I would say only go for a winter release if a) there's definitely no sign of other competition, and b) you're just not confident enough to step up with other movies slated for that Summer.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Every Summer movie has large threatening competition and quite a few make it out okay.

I think that Summer is a fine time to release a Superman movie, just make it exciting along with dramatic the next time around and you will have a hit. Maybe not a huge one the first time out but you can get the word out that the franchise is exciting again...kinda like a certain space based movie is doing this Summer. Then make a killing on DVD.

Thats not an impossible mission for Superman...if WB is willing to drop the obsession with the Donnerverse.

[Excel]

Its way more than "Donnerverse"; there is a certain type of story and a certain way tod o it that w.b. must do in order make the kinda film that will sell in todays world...RETURNS wasnt that. Abrams script was. Superman has to have a sense of excitement to it.

I would think that a well-made Superman movie would be an ideal Summer flick, no?

The ideal Superman film is a cross between Spiderman 1 romance and heroism with Star Wars sense of fun, scope, and adventure; hell yes its the perfect summer film.

[KalMart]

Either that or....I've always been fond of Autumn. :O


Third Wednesday of October, yo? :up:

[Excel]

It all depends. If its going to be a summer release it needs to be a certain type of film; if winter is the same way. RETURNS is a slower, less popcorny film thats more in line with the kind fo blockbusters released in winter. Its where critic pleasers go.

Summer is more about CROWD pleasing; they need to be fun and more popcorny, which doesnt always mean critic pleasing. Returns was the opposite of a crowd pleaser.

[KalMart]

Every Summer movie has large threatening competition and quite a few make it out okay.

I think that Summer is a fine time to release a Superman movie, just make it exciting along with dramatic the next time around and you will have a hit. Maybe not a huge one the first time out but you can get the word out that the franchise is exciting again...kinda like a certain space based movie is doing this Summer. Then make a killing on DVD.

Thats not an impossible mission for Superman...if WB is willing to drop the obsession with the Donnerverse.
I think that if a movie is really good...Spring/Summer works in its favor moreso than the competition takes away from it.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Its way more than "Donnerverse"; there is a certain type of story and a certain way tod o it that w.b. must do in order make the kinda film that will sell in todays world...RETURNS wasnt that. Abrams script was. Superman has to have a sense of excitement to it.



The ideal Superman film is a cross between Spiderman 1 romance and heroism with Star Wars sense of fun, scope, and adventure; hell yes its the perfect summer film.Me liking Trek and disliking Superman Returns isn't going to change my opinion about Abrams ideas. They sucked, they were way too far out.

Now I'd like an Abrams "type" directing the next Superman flick but I'd like a decent script to go along with that director.

[KalMart]

It all depends. If its going to be a summer release it needs to be a certain type of film; if winter is the same way. RETURNS is a slower, less popcorny film thats more in line with the kind fo blockbusters released in winter. Its where critic pleasers go.
SR wouldn't have fared much better in Winter. It still would've been that same movie....plus, I think that more people are going to movies in the Summer anyway.

Summer is more about CROWD pleasing; they need to be fun and more popcorny, which doesnt always mean critic pleasing. Returns was the opposite of a crowd pleaser.
I say they go with whatever season they want with the next movie, but still make it as good as it can be. Enjoyable movie experiences are never out of season. :up:

If Star Trek came out in November, it's not like people would be saying "Dude....wrong month...." after watching it. :D

[Excel]

Abrams "ideas" were adding the sci fi element and giving supes a physical villain, 2 things that are nessecary.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Abrams "ideas" were adding the sci fi element and giving supes a physical villain, 2 things that are nessecary.I didn't say all of his ideas were bad. As far as reinventing the series I think that Abrams had the right idea, I just didn't like alot of those reinventions.

[SuperDaniel]

Abrams ideas sucked. Superman doesn't need reinventions. Just a good story with action and the essence of the characters.

Abrams script is LAUGHABLE. C'mon. Super poop. Kryptonian Bong...

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Abrams ideas sucked. Superman doesn't need reinventions. Just a good story with action and the essence of the characters.

Abrams script is LAUGHABLE. C'mon. Super poop. Kryptonian Bong...Yes Superman does need to be reinvented. The staus quo ain't going to work forever and the reception of Superman Returns shows that to be a fact.

[SuperDaniel]

He DOES NOT. People need to write great stories using the character and that's a big difference. Go read Action Comics #775, Superman for all seasons and all and tell me those stories AREN'T GOOD.

The status quo IS going to work forever because character is so good. We just need people who know the mythos and are able to explore it to the fullest potential by making a fun and entertaining story while being faithful to the essence of what made the characters so appealing through the years.

Superman just need to be translated WELL FOR ONCE and you aren't going to achieve that by changing the essential parts. Smallville and SR are proof of this.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

He DOES NOT. People need to write great stories using the character and that's a big difference. Go read Action Comics #775, Superman for all seasons and all and tell me those stories AREN'T GOOD.

The status quo IS going to work forever because character is so good. We just need people who know the mythos and are able to explore it to the fullest potential by making a fun and entertaining story while being faithful to the essence of what made the characters so appealing through the years.

Superman just need to be translated WELL FOR ONCE and you aren't going to achieve that by changing the essential parts. Smallville and SR are proof of this.I don't think you understand what I'm talking about when I say reinvented.

[KalMart]

The character doesn't need to be reinvented....the experience does.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The character doesn't need to be reinvented....the experience does.I'm not talking about giving him a sex change.:whatever:

Right now the character is seen as dull as dirt.

He can stay a nice big hearted guy but he needs to be more charismatically portrayed. I also wouldn't mind some serious Batman movie style updates to his costume and no I don't mean that s**tty rubber that all of the Batman directors insist on using. Yes I know Superman suit is more iconic than Batman's...or atleast I think it is but I don't think that most would care if the undies were ditched. But ofcourse the color scheme must be kept. Hell it might give the movie some interesting buzz before it comes out. I know that 95% of the fans are going to disagree with me on the suit thing but I'm sticking to my guns on that.

I don't care what the comics are doing right now they need to move as far away from Donnerverse as possible. I don't want a dark Superman movie so thats not what I'm talking about. I don't have all the details put together in my head right now but I'm sure that my ideas wouldn't be totally well recieved by the people who want to see the same movie franchise that began 30+ years ago.

[GreenKToo]

I'm not talking about giving him a sex change.:whatever:

Right now the character is seen as dull as dirt.

He can stay a nice big hearted guy but he needs to be more charismatically portrayed. I also wouldn't mind some serious Batman movie style updates to his costume and no I don't mean that s**tty rubber that all of the Batman directors insist on using. Yes I know Superman suit is more iconic than Batman's...or atleast I think it is but I don't think that most would care if the undies were ditched. But ofcourse the color scheme must be kept. Hell it might give the movie some interesting buzz before it comes out. I know that 95% of the fans are going to disagree with me on the suit thing but I'm sticking to my guns on that.

I don't care what the comics are doing right now they need to move as far away from Donnerverse as possible. I don't want a dark Superman movie so thats not what I'm talking about. I don't have all the details put together in my head right now but I'm sure that my ideas wouldn't be totally well recieved by the people who want to see the same movie franchise that began 30+ years ago.
I get what your saying. He will need an update to draw in the GA, and i'm sure WB knows this. As much as it will pain the fans, I can see them making Supes hip and kool for the next film. They'll want to appease the GA first to make the largest B.O. possible, and since we (the fans) make up a tiny fraction of it, I can see us getting the short end of the stick.
Gawd I hope i'm wrong.

[FlawlessVictory]

Thats not an impossible mission for Superman...if WB is willing to drop the obsession with the Donnerverse.

WB isn't obsessed with Donnerverse, Singer was. WB was ready to film the Abrams version of Superman. You can't get any farther away from the Donnerverse than that Abrams version.

He DOES NOT. People need to write great stories using the character and that's a big difference. Go read Action Comics #775, Superman for all seasons and all and tell me those stories AREN'T GOOD.

The status quo IS going to work forever because character is so good. We just need people who know the mythos and are able to explore it to the fullest potential by making a fun and entertaining story while being faithful to the essence of what made the characters so appealing through the years.

Superman just need to be translated WELL FOR ONCE and you aren't going to achieve that by changing the essential parts. Smallville and SR are proof of this.

The character doesn't need to be reinvented....the experience does.

Agreed. Nothing needs to be done with the character, we just need him in some exciting thrilling action sequences throughout the film and he needs a villain he can go toe to toe with physically. IMO, it really is that simple. No kind of overreaction to the character is necessary. Just no more ridiculously boring "evil" land schemes.

[Excel]

The "status quo" of Superman compared to other comic book heros is that he is BORING. Not that he lacks the ability for thrilling action sequences, but audiences cant relate to him, so they dont care about what happens to him or the people he cares for.

THAT is what needs to change and its what Abrams absolutley nailed; as somebody already said, he perfectly captured what would make a modern Superman tick in a way Singerdidnt even attempt...that is what needs to be "reinvented".

You guys who completely over simplify it with a good story or thrilling actions are not grasping at the real issue. The way Superman is portrayed on the big screen needs to do a legit. 360.

[Showtime]

Abrams ideas for Superman were atrocious. Just because he the threw some action and Sci Fi in there and because Star Trek is performing well; doesn't mean he is should start sending out greeting cards with him dressed as Superman just yet.

Singer couldn't let go of the past, WB couldn't let go of the past, and it cost them. Now some of the posters on the board can't let go of the past. Abrams wrote that script in 2002, it's not going to see the light of day on the big screen. Sure you might see elements of it in a future Superman movie, but don't hold your breath. Suit in a can isn't happening, Kryptonian Lex isn't happening. Ty Zor isn't flying through that door.

There are many capable writers and directors out there capable of bringing a refreshing take on Superman. Abrams isn't the only director in town, he is just the flavor of the month right now.

The problem seems to be WB, and now that Terminator is going to flop, that doesn't necessarily help Superman.

[dark_b]

The "status quo" of Superman compared to other comic book heros is that he is BORING. Not that he lacks the ability for thrilling action sequences, but audiences cant relate to him, so they dont care about what happens to him or the people he cares for.

THAT is what needs to change and its what Abrams absolutley nailed; as somebody already said, he perfectly captured what would make a modern Superman tick in a way Singerdidnt even attempt...that is what needs to be "reinvented".

You guys who completely over simplify it with a good story or thrilling actions are not grasping at the real issue. The way Superman is portrayed on the big screen needs to do a legit. 360.
you are a little obssesed with Abrams superman script arent you :yay:

[Excel]

Im well aware Abrams script isnt getting made and Im not saying thats what i want. I am just using it as an example of an actual superman script (as opposed to broad ideas like "getting the essence of the characters") that got certain fundamental parts of the film RIGHT. Other ideas of his 1st draft were retarded (and if were on the topic, everybody is aware Krypto Lex and suit in can were gone by the 2nd draft of what, 30? I think its time we stop acting like that was actually going to be on the big screen), which is why you wont hear me saying I want that made.

Ive been saying he got a lot right in his script for years; it has NOTHING to do with Star Trek or its success :lmao:

[dark_b]

The problem seems to be WB, and now that Terminator is going to flop, that doesn't necessarily help Superman.
noooooooooooooooooooooooo

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1985/wolverinelittle.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinelittle.jpg)

[FlawlessVictory]

The "status quo" of Superman compared to other comic book heros is that he is BORING. Not that he lacks the ability for thrilling action sequences, but audiences cant relate to him, so they dont care about what happens to him or the people he cares for.

THAT is what needs to change and its what Abrams absolutley nailed; as somebody already said, he perfectly captured what would make a modern Superman tick in a way Singerdidnt even attempt...that is what needs to be "reinvented".

You guys who completely over simplify it with a good story or thrilling actions are not grasping at the real issue. The way Superman is portrayed on the big screen needs to do a legit. 360.

For a character you claim some people find boring and for a movie some people find dull, SR still managed $200 mil domestic and had pretty good reviews. $200 mil for a movie where not one punch was thrown! The movie didn't bomb, it only disappointed but people still showed up. Superman on film only needs to be tweaked. It doesn't need an absud Abramslike take on it.

[Excel]

For a character you claim some people find boring and for a movie some people find dull, SR still managed $200 mil domestic and had pretty good reviews. $200 mil for a movie where not one punch was thrown! The movie didn't bomb, it only disappointed but people still showed up. Superman on film only needs to be tweaked. It doesn't need an absud Abramslike take on it.

200 million in the U.S. is barely tapping the potential of a Superman franchise, that is the problem; thats why theres no Superman Returns 2. Superman Returns, for being practically unmarketable, likely would have toppled to the 250 million mark had it opened furhter away from Pirates 2.

I use Abrams script as an example because come on here clamoring for a Superman film thats in the mold of Spidey 1, Batman Begins, Iron man, Transformers, Star Trek, ect. instead of films like SR...and thats exactly what Abrams script was. Thats whay I bring it up.

[Showtime]

Im well aware Abrams script isnt getting made and Im not saying thats what i want. I am just using it as an example of an actual superman script (as opposed to broad ideas like "getting the essence of the characters") that got certain fundamental parts of the film RIGHT. Other ideas of his 1st draft were retarded (and if were on the topic, everybody is aware Krypto Lex and suit in can were gone by the 2nd draft of what, 30? I think its time we stop acting like that was actually going to be on the big screen), which is why you wont hear me saying I want that made.

Its also time to stop acting like Abrams and his script are the be all and end all of Superman. The fact that he added that to the script in the first place is an abomination. So even if you want the 2nd draft or 3rd draft made, that isn't happening either.

Ive been saying he got a lot right in his script for years; it has NOTHING to do with Star Trek or its success :lmao:

I didn't quote you specifically, but obviously nobody has noticed what you have been saying? :huh:

[Excel]

Its also time to stop acting like Abrams and his script are the be all and end all of Superman. The fact that he added that to the script in the first place is an abomination. So even if you want the 2nd draft or 3rd draft made, that isn't happening either.

I dont want any of his scripts made; I just want a script that sets the same tone and mood as his did. His Superman was more of a crowd pleaser with a serious nature ala Spiderman 1 that flat out wannabe epic ala Superman Returns. It had the action, size & scale, romance, comedy, and drama perfectly balanced that i want in a Superman film. There was zero balance in SR. Its basically that tone and approach that I want more than anything else; obviously there are hundereds of other people out capible of doing that; I just use him as reference because he actually has done it.

I didn't quote you specifically, but obviously nobody has noticed what you have been saying? :huh:

Seeing as I started the "JJ Abrams fior director" thread what, 2 years ago (?), I thought it wouldnt be that hard to figure out.

[Ita-KalEl]

The problem seems to be WB, and now that Terminator is going to flop, that doesn't necessarily help Superman.

That's true. But maybe this and the success of the new Marvel Movies (expecially Captain America) can help a decision about Superman.
Is the CK/Superman cameo still in GL?

[Showtime]

I dont want any of his scripts made; I just want a script that sets the same tone and mood as his did. His Superman was more of a crowd pleaser with a serious nature ala Spiderman 1 that flat out wannabe epic ala Superman Returns. It had the action, size & scale, romance, comedy, and drama perfectly balanced that i want in a Superman film. There was zero balance in SR. Its basically that tone and approach that I want more than anything else; obviously there are hundereds of other people out capible of doing that; I just use him as reference because he actually has done it.

He's directed two films. Star Trek was fantastic, MI3, up for debate.

Let's not crown him just yet. People were saying the same things about Singer in 2004.

Seeing as I started the "JJ Abrams fior director" thread what, 2 years ago (?), I thought it wouldnt be that hard to figure out.

All that means is you had a bad idea 2 years before everybody else did.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Both Superman Returns and Terminator: Salvation were $200+ million films, and yet the latter will gross $125-$130 million tops while the former was able to churn out $200 million.

Again at the end of the day, it makes Returns' box-office numbers look better than how many wrote it off back in '06 - especially compared to Salvation (which is increasingly looking to be placed in the "flop" category) and Watchmen.

[KalMart]

It might make SR's take look better to some Supes fans, but to WB it's still disappointing, and TS/Watchmen is simply worse.

Heck, TS's take should also make TDK's gross look even more amazing too, no? Their outlook/decisions on SR are already made....something doing worse than it isn't encouraging.

[KalMart]

I'm not talking about giving him a sex change.:whatever:

Right now the character is seen as dull as dirt.
Because the story was dull as dirt.

IHe can stay a nice big hearted guy but he needs to be more charismatically portrayed. I also wouldn't mind some serious Batman movie style updates to his costume and no I don't mean that s**tty rubber that all of the Batman directors insist on using. Yes I know Superman suit is more iconic than Batman's...or atleast I think it is but I don't think that most would care if the undies were ditched. But ofcourse the color scheme must be kept. Hell it might give the movie some interesting buzz before it comes out. I know that 95% of the fans are going to disagree with me on the suit thing but I'm sticking to my guns on that.

I don't care what the comics are doing right now they need to move as far away from Donnerverse as possible. I don't want a dark Superman movie so thats not what I'm talking about. I don't have all the details put together in my head right now but I'm sure that my ideas wouldn't be totally well recieved by the people who want to see the same movie franchise that began 30+ years ago.
Superman can still be Superman and be enjoyed if you give him bigger challenges, higher stakes, and more interesting things to do. LIKE the Donner movies (and this isn't inherent to just them), you could be playful with what he is in a sort of charming, even self-effacing way....which is a nice offset to the stupendous things he does. UNLIKE Singer, you shouldn't have to worship the guy to add credibility to what he's doing. Make the 'doing' part more interesting, and his being Superman will enhance it.

[Chewy]

The way Superman is portrayed on the big screen needs to do a legit. 360.
:hehe:

[nintendo nerd]

It might make SR's take look better to some Supes fans, but to WB it's still disappointing, and TS/Watchmen is simply worse.

Heck, TS's take should also make TDK's gross look even more amazing too, no? Their outlook/decisions on SR are already made....something doing worse than it isn't encouraging.

Please no, I have more than enough with Nolan considered a God. Now JJ Abrams? And let's not forget Bale, who is Jesus. :cwink:

[KalMart]

:hehe:

Heh. :pal:

[KalMart]

Please no, I have more than enough with Nolan considered a God. Now JJ Abrams? And let's not forget Bale, who is Jesus. :cwink:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2748/ds41.jpg



:O

[Chewy]

TS and Watchmen's failures don't make SR's take look any better. However, they have hopefully knocked the notion that "dark & gritty = $$$" out of WB's head.

[nintendo nerd]

TS and Watchmen's failures don't make SR's take look any better. However, they have hopefully knocked the notion that "dark & gritty = $$$" out of WB's head.

True. Batman is dark, Superman is not.

[Chewy]

Yup, let the property dictate the tone, not the other way around.

[Nightwing1977]

I'm not talking about giving him a sex change.:whatever:



:funny: :funny:

[RachelDawes]

TS and Watchmen's failures don't make SR's take look any better. However, they have hopefully knocked the notion that "dark & gritty = $$$" out of WB's head.

Thank God for that. The whole making Superman dark thing had me nervous for a while.

[Excel]

To say Terminators bombing makes Supermans dissappointment look better isnt saying anything. They need to embrace the fanasty side of Superman, not ignore it. I can recall reading from lsok about how W.B. thought Singer would be realism to Supes ala Nolan...:facepalm:

[RachelDawes]

To say Terminators bombing makes Supermans dissappointment look better isnt saying anything. They need to embrace the fanasty side of Superman, not ignore it. I can recall reading from lsok about how W.B. thought Singer would be realism to Supes ala Nolan...:facepalm:

Realism wouldn't necessarily be bad if it meant exploring what the real-life reactions to and consequences of Superman's existence would be. Someone once suggested the next movie show how Metropolites would react to Superman's appearance. Some would fear him, others would worship him. I thought that was pretty cool. What would the government do if an all-powerful alien suddenly appeared? I would like it if the next director could answer that.

[NeoRanger]

What would the government do if an all-powerful alien suddenly appeared?
They would contract Lex Luthor to use his company's resources and his 'superior intellect' to find counter-measures. You know, if he's not too busy STEALING LAND AGAIN.

[KalMart]

What would the government do if an all-powerful alien suddenly appeared?

Tax the hell out of him.

[Ita-KalEl]

It might make SR's take look better to some Supes fans, but to WB it's still disappointing, and TS/Watchmen is simply worse.

Heck, TS's take should also make TDK's gross look even more amazing too, no? Their outlook/decisions on SR are already made....something doing worse than it isn't encouraging.

I understand your point, but at least it shows that the franchise is still strong enough to deserve another chance. Despite all a Superman movie is a sure bet while a lot of new franchise (GL included) can be a jump into the dark.

You are right when you talk about the TDK's gross, nevertheless some one could think that TDK is a sequel of a movie that made less than SR worldwide.

[SuperDaniel]

Well, i thought Watchemen was the 2nd best comic book movie ever after TDK. So I don't care if it was a bomb or not. I'm sure it is going to to do great on DVD.

I personally think the Watchmen story is very overrated and don't think is the best comic book story ever... Killing Joke, Superman for all seasons, Dark Knight Returns, Kingdom Come are much better IMO.

[KalMart]

I understand your point, but at least it shows that the franchise is still strong enough to deserve another chance. Despite all a Superman movie is a sure bet while a lot of new franchise (GL included) can be a jump into the dark.
I think it deserves to be a movie franchise regardless, though. It doesn't need other movies doing worse to justify it. Just accept responsibility for putting one out that was disappointing, regroup, and try a new one down the road...which seems to be the approach now. It'll just take some time, and other movies doing worse won't expedite it.

You are right when you talk about the TDK's gross, nevertheless some one could think that TDK is a sequel of a movie that made less than SR worldwide.
Which is why you have to also look beyond those figures when comparing the two (leaving out BB's huge DVD performance, of course :O). What was it about the movies that made one worth continuing, and the other not? How did each make the money that they made? I always felt that all one has to do, objectively, is watch the two movies and it's clear which one is more desirable for continuation, which one feels more like a launching pad rather than a somber end to something from days past. But honestly, I don't think it was that deep for WB....I think it was the DVD receipts. And from the looks of it, they made the right decision...and would probably like to restart things with Superman along those lines as well.

[KalMart]

Well, i thought Watchemen was the 2nd best comic book movie ever after TDK. So I don't care if it was a bomb or not. I'm sure it is going to to do great on DVD.

I never thought Watchmen would make a huge gross because the story itself isn't exactly accessible to those who aren't already comic fans. And especially if it was going to be done 'faithfully', it would also highlight that inaccessibility. As it stands, it probably works better for those who already liked the comic, rather than those who are being introduced to the story for the first time or who are less familiar.....and the latter is very important when it comes to box-office returns. You didn't have to be a comic fan to really enjoy BB/TDK or Iron Man....but I think Watchmen required more inherent appreciation of its source material to really work well.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Both Superman Returns and Terminator: Salvation were $200+ million films, and yet the latter will gross $125-$130 million tops while the former was able to churn out $200 million.

Again at the end of the day, it makes Returns' box-office numbers look better than how many wrote it off back in '06 - especially compared to Salvation (which is increasingly looking to be placed in the "flop" category) and Watchmen.I'm going to disagree with you that this makes SR's gross look better. Yes, the critics loved SR but it's obvious if you just talk to people that the audience did not for the most part love SR. There are obviously many reasons that a direct sequel will not be forthcoming but I can't help but to believe that the only okay DVD sales and the lack of excitement for the sequel from the big chunk of moviegoers that went "eh" contributed to the fact that we obviously aren't getting a direct sequel.

[KalMart]

On the bright side though....it all but forces the next Superman movie to start fresh and finally redefine the franchise for the here and now, and near future to come. You can call it a formula, but it's hard to argue how it benefitted Bond, Trek, and Batman. Despite Superman's pop-culture 'legacy', you could only go so far on veteran credit....especially in such a highly-competitive arena. After all's said and done, I see this as just the kind of 'gut-check' that the Superman movie franchise needed, and could only be clear with a failure like this....not so much a complete failure/flop monetarily, but a 'failure to launch', so to speak. Time for a new rocket. :O

[El Payaso]

I never thought Watchmen would make a huge gross because the story itself isn't exactly accessible to those who aren't already comic fans.

I agree. And I think the same about SR: It was difficult for SR to make huge numbers in 2006 because the movie itself isn't exactly accessible to those who aren't already Donner movies fans.

[KalMart]

I agree. And I think the same about SR: It was difficult for SR to make huge numbers in 2006 because the movie itself isn't exactly accessible to those who aren't already Donner movies fans.

Agreed, that was a big part of it. But even though I loved the Donner movie, I didn't necessarily want to see parts of it again in a new movie, so it kinda' hurt it for THIS Donner fan. :O

[Mostpowerful]

I understand your point, but at least it shows that the franchise is still strong enough to deserve another chance. Despite all a Superman movie is a sure bet while a lot of new franchise (GL included) can be a jump into the dark.

You are right when you talk about the TDK's gross, nevertheless some one could think that TDK is a sequel of a movie that made less than SR worldwide.

Exactly.

And people say that BB sold extremely well on dvd but they never show links to prove it.. The numbers don't show how much it sold WHEN it first came out either.. anyone has links of this, please? I'm sure the film has sold a lot more dvds by now thanks in big part to the huge success of TDK, but I'd like to know from way before that.

I agree. And I think the same about SR: It was difficult for SR to make huge numbers in 2006 because the movie itself isn't exactly accessible to those who aren't already Donner movies fans.

I disagree. I know people who weren't exactly Donner movies fans and they liked SR. Sorry, payasito but it's true.

There is nothing wrong with the Donner/Singer universes, people only wanted more action, superfights, new supervillains, imo, and that could have been done in a sequel, but WB are.... yeah.

[SuperDaniel]

I never thought Watchmen would make a huge gross because the story itself isn't exactly accessible to those who aren't already comic fans. And especially if it was going to be done 'faithfully', it would also highlight that inaccessibility. As it stands, it probably works better for those who already liked the comic, rather than those who are being introduced to the story for the first time or who are less familiar.....and the latter is very important when it comes to box-office returns. You didn't have to be a comic fan to really enjoy BB/TDK or Iron Man....but I think Watchmen required more inherent appreciation of its source material to really work well.
I agree.

[SuperDaniel]

I agree. And I think the same about SR: It was difficult for SR to make huge numbers in 2006 because the movie itself isn't exactly accessible to those who aren't already Donner movies fans.
That's not true. I'm a HUGE fan of Donner's Superman and hated Superman Returns. Lets not get into this again.

SR sucked as a story plain and simple. It wasn't fun. It wasn't original. It added nothing special.

[Showtime]

Good to see you guys can't refrain from the same old tired arguments in every thread.