Kinect and it's effects on the WORLD. [Archive] - Page 3

Fading

06-21-2010, 09:36 AM

This isn't a big deal, as it's one of the things I was worried wouldn't work well anyway, but apparently Kinect only supports 2 players at once. Which is probably a good thing as I was envisioning ppl knocking eachother out with 4 grown adults flailing their arms around in an enclosed space. I mean it's not like I was ever planning on having more than 2 playing at once on Move when I get it either. However I guess it could be bad to ppl expecting to have 4 ppl playing party games at once. Apparently it can scan as more than 2 ppl, but due to processing power it only allows 2 ppl to be tracked during gameplay. Only posting this in case it affects anyone here. Here's a few comments I read elsewhere that talk a bit about it.

This link also explains how the tech works for anyone interested.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/19/kinect-how-it-works-from-the-company-behind-the-tech

PrimeSense reps also told me that the camera can "see" any number of people on the screen -- you can fit as many people in that camera as possible, and the computer will see all of them and can even recognize them as human shapes. But it can only run calculations on two people at a time, just because the processing power required to track all of the body's locations and movements is so great. During our testing with the device, a person moving in front of the camera was able to "steal focus," but the computer can also be told through gestures to keep focus on a certain person.

Also a somewhat confirmation coming from a game coming out that supports 4 players on Wii and Move, but only 2 on Kinect.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/majesco-entertainment-provides-details-of-zumba-fitness-video-game-96337804.html

Players can also grow that party at home with up to four players on Wii? and PlayStation Move, and up to two players on Kinect *for Xbox 360.

The only problem I have with this is Microsoft showing trailers, and Dance Party at E3 that made it look like it could support 4 players. This could lead to confusion. I mean 4 players playing at once is a rare thing amongst consoles in most homes I'd imagine, but I hope Microsoft puts a sticker or something that says, "Supports up to 2 players" on the box just in case some huge family buys it specifically for that purpose.

Edit - This does bring up an interesting thought tho. If only 2 players are supported, then WTF was going on in that embarrassing video of the husband and wife and the 2 kids a few pages back. If only 2 were playing it'd explain why the kid turns around mid video and looks at that woman like WTF are you doing? On the other hand it'd be hilarious if she was one of the ones not actually playing and was just doing all of those awful motions for show on the camera lol.

ProjectPat2280

06-21-2010, 04:01 PM

Kinect can support more than 2 players.

Kinect not limited to 2-players, Has unlimited possibilites

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-12218-Video-Game-Examiner~y2010m6d21-Kiect-not-limited-to-2players-Has-unlimited-possibilites

StrainedEyes

06-21-2010, 04:26 PM

You can't play while sitting, you can play while sitting, it can't support more than 2 players, it can support more then 2 players. The back and forth reporting on Kinect is getting annoying.

ProjectPat2280

06-21-2010, 04:31 PM

You can't play while sitting, you can play while sitting, it can't support more than 2 players, it can support more then 2 players. The back and forth reporting on Kinect is getting annoying.

LOL.

I find it interesting how all these 'negative' stories keep coming out about Kinect only to be debunked with a little bit of research.

Fading

06-21-2010, 11:07 PM

DP (trying to condense two posts into one)

Fading

06-21-2010, 11:34 PM

About the 2 player thing, the original link I gave was from the guys who helped develop the tech. Personally I think the Examiner article is talking apples and oranges, but I'll post clips from both for comparison.

Examiner link

The camera technology can detect an unlimited number of people, so if it's programmed in such a way, it can process and render more than two-players at a time. At the current time, Microsoft hasn't revealed how many players Kinect will support

This is what Primesense said,

PrimeSense reps also told me that the camera can "see" any number of people on the screen -- you can fit as many people in that camera as possible, and the computer will see all of them and can even recognize them as human shapes. But it can only run calculations on two people at a time, just because the processing power required to track all of the body's locations and movements is so great. During our testing with the device, a person moving in front of the camera was able to "steal focus," but the computer can also be told through gestures to keep focus on a certain person.

Both articles are saying Kinect can see how ever many people you put in front of it. The difference is PrimeSense are saying that Kinect can only full render 2 of those people in game at a time due to it being a processing heavy task. Where the Examiner article (IMO) sounds full of guesswork. They say in theory, and are saying it can scan in those unlimited amounts of people with atleast 8 players in game. Meanwhile PrimeSense is saying that Kinect struggles to render 2 full body shapes in game at the same time. The original article even says that they were shown a demo where more than 2 ppl just ended up in a struggle that ended up with scene stealing. So the Examiner article isn't debunking what PrimeSense said.

Anyway sorry, not trying to sound aggressive on this, and not trying to argue. I'm not buying Kinect, and not trying to troll on it either. To anyone who buys it, more power to them and I hope they enjoy it. It's just that this is the Kinect thread, and guys like IGN and Kotaku are finally getting their hands on it and noticing these problems. It's news for Kinect, so we're posting it in here. I don't think it's like anyone in the thread thinks Sony or Nintendo pay any of us for posting negative news. Anyway I'll try and cut back on the negative news. It just so happens that pretty much 90% of whats being reported now is eye catching negative news from ppl who tried the tech, or worked on building the tech.

StrainedEyes

06-22-2010, 02:07 AM

Looks like Kinect will be $149.99:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1100864p1.html

Flash Facts

06-22-2010, 09:24 AM

Both articles are saying Kinect can see how ever many people you put in front of it. The difference is PrimeSense are saying that Kinect can only full render 2 of those people in game at a time due to it being a processing heavy task. Where the Examiner article (IMO) sounds full of guesswork. They say in theory, and are saying it can scan in those unlimited amounts of people with atleast 8 players in game. Meanwhile PrimeSense is saying that Kinect struggles to render 2 full body shapes in game at the same time. The original article even says that they were shown a demo where more than 2 ppl just ended up in a struggle that ended up with scene stealing. So the Examiner article isn't debunking what PrimeSense said.

This is from the link that you posted:
Update: PrimeSense has gotten in touch with us to say that it was only the demo software it showed off at E3 that could support only two users, not the hardware itself. Theoretically, with enough processing power, PrimeSense's hardware licensed by Kinect could support any number of players.

But the company can't speak to us about Microsoft's implementation or how many players it can support. We'll try to check with Microsoft and let you know what we find. Also I am wondering what exactly you meant by rendering. If I'm not mistaken there are a number of videos for that dance central game showing 3 people (main performer and 2 back up dancers) being rendered. I'm thinking you may have misspoke, well miswrote.

KALEL114

06-22-2010, 10:30 AM

There was some questions about how a FPS would work on Kinect, MS might have just answered them.

When Kinect was unveiled as Project Natal during last year's E3 and Tokyo Game Show it looked like the sort of controller that would be used for a wider variety of games.
Up on stage, Microsoft showed off not only a bunch of casual games for the motion-controller, but also innovative titles like Milo, which has you interacting with a human child. Later that year, at the Tokyo Game Show, a panel of famed Japanese developers talked about all of the big games they could make for the device.
But at this year's E3 the games shown for Kinect all seem to be geared for casual gamers and Lionhead's charming child, Milo, was no where to be seen. What happened?
Project Milo is still in the works, according to Microsoft.
"Project Milo is something that is in ongoing development at Lionhead Studios," according to a Microsoft statement. "Lionhead has always been a center of innovation and will continue to deliver against that charter."
And what about hardcore gaming with Kinect?
"With "Halo: Reach," "Gears of War 3" and "Call of Duty: Black Ops," this is the biggest year for core games on Xbox 360," according to Microsoft. "In addition to these controller-based games, Kinect is a new way to play, using your full body and voice. We believe gamers will also enjoy games, sports, movies and music – all hands free. Beyond these experiences, we will continue to evolve our platform, just as we've done with Xbox LIVE. What you're seeing today is just the beginning."
Evolving gameplay doesn't exactly sound like the Project Natal of 2009. Why didn't Microsoft implement Kinect controls for Halo: Reach or Gears of War 3?
"At Xbox, we're developing controller-based games for the core and Kinect titles that appeal to everyone," according to a Microsoft statement. "And just as we've done with Xbox LIVE, we will continue to evolve our platform and work with the industry's most creative minds to create new games and entertainment. What you're seeing today is just the beginning."
For now Microsoft is only saying that Kinect will have "more than 15 games" available this November for the launch of the controller. They also confirm that Kinect will not be backwards compatible with any already released Xbox 360 games.
http://kotaku.com/5567696/microsoft-explains-why-kinect-doesnt-do-gears-of-war-3-halo-reach

Fading

06-22-2010, 10:31 AM

Edit - Decided I'm kinda tired of the debate and being quoted and re-explaining myself over and over lol. Yes render was a miswrite as I was following the Examiner's lead and not clearly thinking enough to change it.

Here...instead of a huge wordy post, I'll just use an analogy that shows my poor car knowledge, and then unsubscribe from this thread for a bit lol.

PrimeSense: We developed an engine. The problem is it lacks a bit in horsepower, and as such can only hold two passengers while in motion. However when parked the car will support however many ppl can fit in it.

Microsoft: We'll buy your engines tech and mass manufacture it with a few minor tweaks.

Fading: I'll post this info.

ProjectPat: It can support more, read this!

Examiner: PrimeSense said Microsoft's engine can only move with 2 ppl, their wrong. When the car is parked it can hold dozen's of ppl. Therefore it can move with just as many ppl as it can hold hold when not moving.

PrimeSense: Update, we stated out info based on the engine we designed. Theoretically with more horsepower the engine will be able to move the car with more ppl. Whether Microsoft will add said horsepower we're not sure.

Flash Facts: Fading!!! Computer lingo Typoooo!!!!! DIIIEEEE!!!!

Fading: I, ok I'm sorry I'll type another block of text explaining what I meant. No, that first draft was too angry sounding and I'm not angry, I'll re-edit it to lighten it up a bit. Nope, screw it, the conversation is me restating the same thing over and over, I'll post a poor analogy instead.

(The above is all stated joking, and lovingly. I just have nothing more to add, bowing out of the thread. Even saying the word Kinect annoys me anymore with how much it's been talked about on the net on everything gaming related lately lol. Everyone carry on, no harm meant, sorry.)

Flash Facts

06-22-2010, 11:51 AM

I think your are misunderstanding, I never said that anything conflicts with the original article. I was just pointing out that the article that you linked to, I didn't link to anything, was updated to clarify that PrimeSense told Joystiq the limitation was of the demo unit they had on display not of Kinect. From what we know Kinect does not even use the processor that was in PrimeSense's unit and as you said any limitation will come from the processor in the 360 and the improvements they made to the software not the tech shown at PrimeSense.

Also in regards to Dance Central, the dancers in the game aren't supposed to follow your movements. They are just there to show what the movements should look like. During free style mode the camera does seem to track backup dancers during single player and I believe at least two at the same time for two players.

Ryan and Jeff as back ups (http://www.giantbomb.com/e3-2010-dance-central-interview/17-2779/) @ 4:49

This looks to be the 2 player mode (http://www.tested.com/tested-goes-body-on-with-kinect-and-dance-central/47-76/)

ProjectPat2280

06-22-2010, 11:58 AM

There was some questions about how a FPS would work on Kinect, MS might have just answered them.

http://kotaku.com/5567696/microsoft-explains-why-kinect-doesnt-do-gears-of-war-3-halo-reach

I read something the other day talking about using Kinect for head tracking with FPS's. That i could get behind. It's been done on the PC and it looks really cool. I dont think we will ever see a Gears or Halo controller free and it should remain that way.

Looks like Kinect will be $149.99:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1100864p1.html

That price point is WAY too high. They are trying to fail setting it that high. It needs to be in the 80 - 100 dollar range tops.

Flash Facts

06-22-2010, 12:09 PM

For those of you wondering what an FPS could possibly look like using Kinect here is an old "leaked" video of half life 2 using what was thought to be Kinect.

DKJzfWZ4t9w

KALEL114

06-22-2010, 12:11 PM

The rumor is that Kinect cost MS 150.00 to make. I know it is just a rumor, but if true, it would be difficult to sell it for 80-100 dollars.

ProjectPat2280

06-22-2010, 12:17 PM

The rumor is that Kinect cost MS 150.00 to make. I know it is just a rumor, but if true, it would be difficult to sell it for 80-100 dollars.

Yea iv heard that as well, but others have stated the cost is closer to 80 dollars. Either way, they are probably going to have to take a loss. They've done that before, it's not unlikely for them to do it again. Look at Sony, they were taking a loss on every Playstation 3 up until recently.

Also, MS is stating that even though their website has it listed at 150, NO price has been set:

Stephen Toulouse of Microsoft stated on his Twitter account that all pricing for Kinect, no matter the retail source, is purely a placeholder.

Toulouse: "All prices now *no matter what the retail source* are placeholders. We've not announced."

ProjectPat2280

06-22-2010, 12:21 PM

For those of you wondering what an FPS could possibly look like using Kinect here is an old "leaked" video of half life 2 using what was thought to be Kinect.

DKJzfWZ4t9w

I think we will see something similar to this with FPS titles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ

Havok83

06-22-2010, 12:51 PM

For those of you wondering what an FPS could possibly look like using Kinect here is an old "leaked" video of half life 2 using what was thought to be Kinect.

DKJzfWZ4t9w
that looks pretty bad. I could see my self getting pretty naeusous with that

Flash Facts

06-22-2010, 01:03 PM

Seeing as how Johnny Lee works at Microsoft I wouldn't be surprised if some of his head tracking projects showed up in games as well.

Jd3-eiid-Uw

Superhero 101

06-22-2010, 02:02 PM

i am sure microsoft will come up with a brilliant way for hardcore gamers to play fps

KALEL114

06-22-2010, 02:18 PM

Hardcore gamers are not their focus with Kinect, at least right now.

Nathan

06-22-2010, 02:24 PM

I really can't see how they could make hardcore games playable with Kinect, without relying on some sort of device for button input. So, yeah... I don't ever see them come up with a brilliant way.

ProjectPat2280

06-22-2010, 03:22 PM

I really can't see how they could make hardcore games playable with Kinect, without relying on some sort of device for button input. So, yeah... I don't ever see them come up with a brilliant way.

Who says hardcore games will ever be used ONLY with Kinect? They will use Kinect along side your standard controller. Like the video that i posted, there could be some implementation for head tracking within these games. Shift your head slightly to the right and you on screen hud will move slightly to the right. We have seen the success that type of input has had in some PC games(especially flight sims) and MS has stated thats something they are considering with Kinect. Kinect is first and formost aimed at the casual audience, but thinking there will be no use for it in hardcore titles is just plain naive.

Nathan

06-22-2010, 03:34 PM

Havok83

06-22-2010, 03:37 PM

i am sure microsoft will come up with a brilliant way for hardcore gamers to play fps
honestly what hardcore fan would want to drop down the 360 controller to play a FPS with Kinect.

ProjectPat2280

06-22-2010, 04:43 PM

I'm not saying Kinect will have no use, just that there's no way to use Kinect alone. I was responding to the post above of MS finding a "brilliant" way. Using a controller together with the Kinect camera isn't brilliant, it's the Move.

Oh yea i agree. With the complexity of most "hardcore" titles, there is no use for Kinect alone. They will have to implement Kinect on top of the standard controls, which could be quite cool, like the head tracking that has been brought up. We saw some of it with the Forza demo. I think they'll go that route for use in hard core titles. The head tracking would be phenomenal with a title like Forza. Id almost buy Kinect for that alone. I use the racing wheel when i play Forza 3 and the only negative thing about that is that you cant check your side mirror, which in racing is quite critical. With the Kinect head tracking, id be able to glance at my side mirrors and see if another racer was trying to pass me. Things like that on top of the standard controls could make Kinect appeal to the more hardcore crowd. But i agree, there is no way they could remove the controller completely.

Timstuff

06-24-2010, 10:05 AM

i am sure microsoft will come up with a brilliant way for hardcore gamers to play fps

Here it is:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/Timstuff_photos/xbox_move.jpg

:cwink:

Flash Facts

06-24-2010, 07:37 PM

If you were going to troll by posting a picture of a controller you should of at least posted one that would've worked.

KALEL114

06-24-2010, 08:22 PM

I see it?

Flash Facts

06-24-2010, 09:06 PM

Not the picture, the controller. A wand would have the same theoretical problem as a camera, movement independent of viewing direction.

The 360 controller would've made a lot more sense.

KALEL114

07-20-2010, 11:23 AM

It's official.

Microsoft's Kinect add-on for the Xbox 360 will be $150 and come with a copy of Kinect Adventures when the motion controller hits stores in November, the company said today. Kinect games will sell for $50 each.
Microsoft's news today confirms rumor (http://kotaku.com/5565894/amazon-prices-kinect-at-149) about the price of the add-on that have been making the rounds since the date for Kinect was unveiled at E3 last month.
The Kinect kit will come with both the propitiatory cable that works with Microsoft's latest Xbox 360 and a USB cable and power cord that will work with the original Xbox 360s.
Microsoft will also be selling a new bundle (http://kotaku.com/5591653/new-xbox-360-model-hits-next-month-kinect-bundle-confirmed?preview=true) that includes the redesigned Xbox 360 with 4GB of internal flash memory and the Kinect kit for $300 starting on Nov. 4. News of the bundle first broke on Kotaku last month (http://kotaku.com/5567850/microsoft-confirms-kinect-bundles-new-199-xbox-360).
Microsoft's product manager Aaron Greenberg says that Microsoft expects that Kinect will be a "huge driver of console sales."
"I think Kinect absolutely presents a unique opportunity to reach a much broader audience then we've spoken to before," Greenberg said.
The Kinect Adventures game includes more than 20 different game modes and supports up to two players at a time. The new motion control add-on will launch along side 15 titles, Greenberg said. While Microsoft can't dictate the price third-party developers sell their games for, the currently announced four internally developed Kinect games will sell for $50, $10 less than most Xbox 360 games.
Kinect goes up against Nintendo's already established and massively successful Wii console, which sells for $200 and comes with the sensor bar, single remote, single nunchuk, a MotionPlus add-on and copies of Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort.
Sony's motion-sensing Move add-on, for the Playstation 3 (which starts at $300), hits on Sept. 19 for a variety of pricing options. The Playstation Move bundle, which includes a single controller, the required camera and a copy of Sports Champions, sells for $100. The sub-controller for the Move sells for $30.

http://kotaku.com/5591138/microsoft-prices-kinect-xbox-360-motion-games (http://kotaku.com/5591138/microsoft-prices-kinect-xbox-360-motion-games)

Edit: Pricing for my EU friends with US conversion for comparison.

150 Euros = 193.7700 US dollars
130 British pounds sterling = 198.7440 US dollars

ProjectPat2280

07-20-2010, 12:25 PM

hippie_hunter

07-20-2010, 02:52 PM

Greenberg has confirmed the US price to be $150

Addendum

07-20-2010, 03:01 PM

I hope this fails hard and that some people at Microsoft lose jobs

Cth

07-21-2010, 07:49 AM

That price point is way too high. The bundle i think is set at an ok price(199 would of been the right spot), but MS wont see many Kinects move with the 150 dollar price point. Bad move on their part.

It makes sense actually, IMO.

The price point makes the bundle look more appealing, which in turn moves more consoles.

And when you look at it this way:

199 - (Wii)
299 - (Xbox 360 with Kinect Bundle)
399 - (PlayStation 3 with PlayStation Move Bundle)

I can see why they put the bundle at that price.

I don't think MS or Sony are serious about motion control or they'd have been more aggressive with the pricing.

Addendum

07-21-2010, 08:24 AM

So they attempt to make a bundle appealing, but they have yet to make Kinect appealing at all.

KALEL114

07-21-2010, 09:43 AM

The bundle looks ok until you realize that they have no plans in the near future to release the HDD seperately. So you will be stuck with the 4gb imternal memory or get a flash drive (maximum 32gb) until they decide they want to release it.

Microsoft doesn’t imagine customers will buy the 4-GB unit and then immediately want to add a 250-GB hard drive.
“You’d have to be pretty bad at making decisions” to do that, Greenberg said.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/07/kinect-price-2/#ixzz0uKP5h9nC

Cth

07-21-2010, 10:52 AM

The bundle looks ok until you realize that they have no plans in the near future to release the HDD seperately. So you will be stuck with the 4gb imternal memory or get a flash drive (maximum 32gb) until they decide they want to release it.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/07/kinect-price-2/#ixzz0uKP5h9nC

True, but then again, the Wii has made due for years with 512MB internal memory.

Either way, the casual market that's theoretically being targeted may not be the type to download tons of XBLA games, and if so, there's always the memory card solution which is what MS wants.

It's not the best solution and I don't agree with it, but again, that's how they'd been doing things since launching the 360.

So they attempt to make a bundle appealing, but they have yet to make Kinect appealing at all.

For existing gamers, yeah. It's hard to say how casuals may react. After all, people were buying Rock Band bundles left and right. I'd wait until its closer to launch since they're still working on it.

Addendum

07-21-2010, 11:23 AM

Microsoft doesn’t imagine customers will buy the 4-GB unit and then immediately want to add a 250-GB hard drive.
“You’d have to be pretty bad at making decisions” to do that, Greenberg said.

Talk about irony

Donut

07-21-2010, 01:44 PM

Talk about irony

Thats funny as if I were to get Kinetic & I do not have the new 360 getting the Bundle & the Hard Drive on its own would be the cheapest thing to do & I am far from Casual

Addendum

07-21-2010, 02:54 PM

Irony in the sense about a guy from Microsoft commenting on bad decisions. But on recollection, it's more of the pot and the kettle.

Donut

07-22-2010, 07:30 AM

If anyone wants to get Kinetic for $89.99 instead of $150 or more this deal ends today

http://www.ironstarmovement.com/profiles/blogs/kinect-reasonably-priced-at-89

KALEL114

07-22-2010, 09:27 AM

If anyone wants to get Kinetic for $89.99 instead of $150 or more this deal ends today

http://www.ironstarmovement.com/profiles/blogs/kinect-reasonably-priced-at-89
:hehe:

For those interested in getting Kinect, make sure you have 6ft of space minimum to play it.

Here's what you'll need to use the Kinect:

Xbox 360 console
6 feet (1.8 meters) between you and your television for play space†
You!
http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Kinect-Sensor-for-Xbox-360/product/C737B081

Cth

07-22-2010, 03:09 PM

Really? Is this what fanboy trolling has come to?

:D

KALEL114

07-22-2010, 03:37 PM

Are you referring to me? :huh:

Cth

07-22-2010, 03:41 PM

KALEL114

07-22-2010, 04:12 PM

Timstuff

07-22-2010, 04:26 PM

Not seriously :D

Either way, there's plenty of stuff to bash it for -- I just think making a big deal about 6 feet is a little hyperbolic. It's bad enough Sony and MS are both trying to spin things with their little charts, without fans whipping each other into frenzies :D

If you don't have 6 feet of space, chances are you shouldn't be spending your cash on videogames :)

In my dorm I don't have 6 feet between me and the screen. I have about 3 feet, and that's a generous estimate. I still blow lots of money on games but I would not waste a penny on Kinect even if I had an Xbox.

Timstuff

07-22-2010, 05:39 PM

BTW, there are some funny spoofs of Kinect on Youtube.

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iWQlKFhOp9M

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Cth

07-22-2010, 08:34 PM

I was just putting the info out there for people on the boards. I consider several people as friends here and just want to make sure everyone has all the info necessary. Some people might have wanted to get Kinect for their bedroom or they might have a very small livingroom. Just trying to make sure all the info is there. I wasn't trying to bash it at all. I never said anything remotely negative about it in the post. I admit it does not appeal to me, but it does to others and I respect that. I have a 360 and plenty of space for Kinect, but it's just not for me. :) :up:

Sorry if I seem a bit sensitive, but "fanboy" is a 4 letter word to me. :woot:

Fair enough, I'm the same way. Admittedly, it does look bad since the majority of the threads you start seem to be Sony oriented is all.

Regardless, the average person is between 5.5 to 6 feet. If you can lie down in front of the TV, that's theoretically enough.

I just wish people were as adamant about getting the facts out there about Move as well.

Personally, I'm so so on Kinect, mainly as something for my daughter to play with so I can get my entertainment center back again :D

As far as 3 feet of dorm space, if you're not a freshman, you've got the crap end of the stick, IMO :D All of my dorm rooms were big except for freshman year which had about 4 feet, so I know how that can be.

If you can drop all that cash on a 360, PS3, etc you can afford off campus housing or request a better dorm. :D

KALEL114

07-22-2010, 08:53 PM

Admittedly, I play a majority of my games on PS3, but I try not to be too biased with my comments in either forum. It's about what you post not where you do that counts. I respect both consoles and their owners. I have the best of both worlds owning both consoles, so I'm a happy camper. Let's move on. *bro hug* :woot:

Back on topic.

Here's a rumor about a possible EA Kinect Studio.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/35441/Has-EA-opened-a-Kinect-studio

Timstuff

07-23-2010, 04:43 PM

^ EA might be jumping the gun a bit. We don't even know if Kinect is going to sell well, and EA is already talking about making a whole studio just for Kinect games?

Timstuff

07-23-2010, 04:50 PM

Here's an amusing comparison video between Kinect and the Eyetoy / PSeye.

au3UJHItYgc

This is ultimately the big problem with Kinect-- it's basically an Eyetoy with depth perception. Sony had this exact same technology a few years ago and were considering it for the second generation eyetoy on PS3, but ultimately passed on it because they decided that adding a Z-axis to the Eyetoy was not going to open up enough new game possibilities, and it was too expensive. Microsoft seems to think Sony let a golden egg roll off of its table, but I guess time will tell whether or not Sony made the right call in passing on Kinect's tech. So far though, I have not been very impressed with the sorts of games that are appearing on Kinect, and considering what it does I think the price tag is way too high.

Fading

07-23-2010, 05:55 PM

Heh, I know I said I was bowing out of the thread, but wanted to post 2 things quick. According to the Microsoft EMEA vice president it may take 1 1/2 years to see more hardcore orientated titles.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/201552/18_month_wait_for_hardcore_kinect_games.html?tk=hp _new

"Certainly over the launch phase and this Christmas in particular I think you'll see very much pure Kinect for 360 experiences that will appeal to the broad young/older/female/family audiences I described earlier," said Lewis, speaking to Gameindustry.biz.

How long do GearsofWarHaloFable gamers have to wait then?18 months, says Lewis, during which time "more of these hybrid experiences...where you can complement what might ostensibly be a controller-based experience with gestures, voice and physical movement" will probably make an appearance.

Personally, if I was Microsoft I wouldn't have mentioned a time frame. Especially since it has potential to turn away early adopters who expected some Halo Reach Kinect love early.

Really? Is this what fanboy trolling has come to?

Heh, it's funny, at first I couldn't see why so many Kinect fans thought everyone was trolling on it, but now I can see why since it seems like negative Kinect news comes out weekly. However I think it's because it was being hyped as the bridge to what we've seen in sci-fi movies, but once ppl actually got their hands on it they found bugs and problems that conflict with how we normally game.

Like take for instance the report about a woman with a long skirt not being picked up by Kinect. Now it's common sense that if you cover your legs Kinect can't render them as it can't see them. A lot of Kinect fans were saying that news was trolling. However on the other hand never before have gamers been presented with the thought that they might have to change clothes after a hard day at work/school, while wanting to relax to play a game.

I do want to say tho that atleast on my part, it's not fanboyism towards a company, but not wanting to see 360 owners unhappy. I'd like to see Kinect owners happy, and the ppl who work in the 360 branch of MS continue to draw checks. However it's weird to me that Microsoft went casual with it. I mean it's not that I don't understand with the Wii's popularity. On the other hand tho more hardcore gamers (and by hardcore I mean the Halo, Gears, Fable, ME crowd) are the life blood of the Xbox brand. They're the majority of the 40 million sold so far. I'm just not sure it's wise to bet the farm on Kinect as a mid life kicker by chasing after the Wii audience, who if they don't have a Wii already can buy one for $50 more than Kinect, and get games like Mario and Zelda. Meanwhile thinking they'll instead buy Kinect without a solid line up, high entry price, and all the while pushing aside their main audience.

ProjectPat2280

07-24-2010, 01:03 AM

I'm just not sure it's wise to bet the farm on Kinect as a mid life kicker by chasing after the Wii audience, who if they don't have a Wii already can buy one for $50 more than Kinect, and get games like Mario and Zelda. Meanwhile thinking they'll instead buy Kinect without a solid line up, high entry price, and all the while pushing aside their main audience.

I think thats a fairly large misconception. I think it's what the anti MS ppl are hoping for(not saying thats you). They are hoping MS will abandon the hardcore crowd, thus causing the Playstation to rise to power. Kinect isnt going to do that. It will bring in some of the casual crowd, but its not going to force ppl to go buy a Playstation. MS isnt going to stop with the Gears and the Halo's and the Mass Effects and the Alan Wakes and the Forza's and the Crackdowns and the Splinter Cells etc etc etc. Those games will continue to come out along side the Kinect Adventures and whatever other shovel-ware MS pushes out.

MS and Sony are hoping to capture the Wii's market with these new motion devices. That might happen to a degree but its too little too late for both MS and Sony, that casual market ship has sailed and Nintendo is in the drivers seat. This wont shift the balance at all.

Fading

07-24-2010, 07:33 AM

I think thats a fairly large misconception. I think it's what the anti MS ppl are hoping for(not saying thats you). They are hoping MS will abandon the hardcore crowd, thus causing the Playstation to rise to power. Kinect isnt going to do that. It will bring in some of the casual crowd, but its not going to force ppl to go buy a Playstation. MS isnt going to stop with the Gears and the Halo's and the Mass Effects and the Alan Wakes and the Forza's and the Crackdowns and the Splinter Cells etc etc etc. Those games will continue to come out along side the Kinect Adventures and whatever other shovel-ware MS pushes out.

MS and Sony are hoping to capture the Wii's market with these new motion devices. That might happen to a degree but its too little too late for both MS and Sony, that casual market ship has sailed and Nintendo is in the drivers seat. This wont shift the balance at all.

I agree that a lot of fanboys wish that. In fact, I've seen ppl say they hope MS has to lay ppl off over this. When your love or hate for a console leads to wishing for others to be unable to feed their families and pay their bills...you need help.

To clarify what I meant, Microsoft has said they plan to keep the 360 around longer, and they seem to be going all out with Kinect. In other words they're depending on Kinect to give them a kick that will boost 360 sales to a point that waiting 3 or so years longer without a new Xbox isn't a problem. The problem is that the majority of 360 owners buy hardcore games. 1/4 of them buy anything Halo, even more buy COD brand anymore. They typically don't deviate from that pattern.

Of course Microsoft will continue to support hardcore gamers, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. However they're putting a lot on the back of Kinect, yet aiming it completely away from the ppl who normally buy Xbox's. Early adopters really help keep a new product alive, many of which would probably be current 360 owners. Instead Microsoft is saying that it will probably be 18 months til they see games catered to them. Meanwhile they charge head on into the Wii crowd with a peripheral that almost costs as much as a Wii allne, but doesn't have Mario, Zelda, or Metroid. Yet this peripheral is what they're putting so much faith and advertising money in to refresh the 360, but again are doing so by pushing Kinect in a way that completely ignores their current consumer base to try and steal the Wii crowd.

Personally I'd rather see them toss in hardcore games earlier is all. They've been working with Kinect for awhile. They could easily had someone working on atleast 1 title that can only be played with Kinect that sells the device to the core 360 crowd rather than say wait a year and a half and we'll get around to you.

Timstuff

07-24-2010, 10:01 AM

The 18 month figure is basically saying to core gamers "don't bother buying one for 18 months, because there won't be anything but casualware." That was a bad move on MS's part, but what would be even worse is if they follow through and don't release anything for core gamers for a year and a half. MS is pretty much banking on Kinect drawing lots of new adopters to the 360, which is really kind of a crapshoot.

The move is taking an approach that I think is better in terms of appealing to the core and casual demographics. The problem it's going to face though, is whether or not casuals will think that it's enough of an improvement over the Wii to be worth spending twice as much money on. They both do a very similar function, so it all comes down to the software. Microsoft has an advantage in that the Kinect has a gimmick that Wii cannot replicate (no controller), but again, if the software isn't there then it might be limping out the gate.

ProjectPat2280

07-24-2010, 12:01 PM

Of course Microsoft will continue to support hardcore gamers, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. However they're putting a lot on the back of Kinect, yet aiming it completely away from the ppl who normally buy Xbox's. Early adopters really help keep a new product alive, many of which would probably be current 360 owners. Instead Microsoft is saying that it will probably be 18 months til they see games catered to them. Meanwhile they charge head on into the Wii crowd with a peripheral that almost costs as much as a Wii allne, but doesn't have Mario, Zelda, or Metroid. Yet this peripheral is what they're putting so much faith and advertising money in to refresh the 360, but again are doing so by pushing Kinect in a way that completely ignores their current consumer base to try and steal the Wii crowd

But they don't need to sell their system to the hardcore crowd at this point. It's already there. Kinect is just a ploy to get those potential holiday Wii buyers to purchase a 360 instead, which as we have seen can lead to a lot of profit. Im assuming MS is thinking, lets get the Kinect out, get a new market, then push out shovel ware(b/c that market will buy anything) and then they can start focus on making Halo Kinect.

I agree, it would of been better if they had done what Sony is doing and said Kinect will also work with say Halo Reach, but i dont think the sales would of been much higher if that were the case. I think tapping into that casual crowd will be more than enough for MS at this point(that is IF they succeed in getting that crowd)

Addendum

07-25-2010, 03:57 PM

I agree that a lot of fanboys wish that. In fact, I've seen ppl say they hope MS has to lay ppl off over this. When your love or hate for a console leads to wishing for others to be unable to feed their families and pay their bills...you need help.

To clarify what I meant, Microsoft has said they plan to keep the 360 around longer, and they seem to be going all out with Kinect. In other words they're depending on Kinect to give them a kick that will boost 360 sales to a point that waiting 3 or so years longer without a new Xbox isn't a problem. The problem is that the majority of 360 owners buy hardcore games. 1/4 of them buy anything Halo, even more buy COD brand anymore. They typically don't deviate from that pattern.

Of course Microsoft will continue to support hardcore gamers, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. However they're putting a lot on the back of Kinect, yet aiming it completely away from the ppl who normally buy Xbox's. Early adopters really help keep a new product alive, many of which would probably be current 360 owners. Instead Microsoft is saying that it will probably be 18 months til they see games catered to them. Meanwhile they charge head on into the Wii crowd with a peripheral that almost costs as much as a Wii allne, but doesn't have Mario, Zelda, or Metroid. Yet this peripheral is what they're putting so much faith and advertising money in to refresh the 360, but again are doing so by pushing Kinect in a way that completely ignores their current consumer base to try and steal the Wii crowd.

Personally I'd rather see them toss in hardcore games earlier is all. They've been working with Kinect for awhile. They could easily had someone working on atleast 1 title that can only be played with Kinect that sells the device to the core 360 crowd rather than say wait a year and a half and we'll get around to you.

I only said "I hope people lose their jobs over this if it fails" because I think that the amount of money spent on Kinect could have gone toward a new IP or 2. Spend the money on games, not a gimmick.

hippie_hunter

07-25-2010, 05:08 PM

But they don't need to sell their system to the hardcore crowd at this point. It's already there. Kinect is just a ploy to get those potential holiday Wii buyers to purchase a 360 instead, which as we have seen can lead to a lot of profit. Im assuming MS is thinking, lets get the Kinect out, get a new market, then push out shovel ware(b/c that market will buy anything) and then they can start focus on making Halo Kinect.
The problem is that the casual market is a very unreliable market. They're pretty much buying Wiis and Kinects and allowing them to collect dust while not buying any games. The reason why you're seeing so much shovelware is not because people are buying them, but because they're so cheap to make that selling a low amount will still allow them to make a quick buck.

Hell, the unreliability of the casual market is the reason why video game sales dropped dramatically in 2009 while the hardcore audience gobbled up Batman: Arkham Asylum, LittleBigPlanet

However, while UbiSoft, EA, Activision, Sega, and Konami will be able to make cheap and easy games for Kinect, I don't see Data Design Interactive, Zoo Games, SouthPeak Games, Crave Entertainment, and other shovelware publishers really being able to have the resources to invest in Kinect. Developing games for Kinect should be more expensive considering it's motion control method and development for the Xbox 360 being more expensive to develop for in general, which really takes away the making a quick buck aspect of these companies.

So on the bright side, whille there will be shovelware for Kinect, it won't be as abundant compared to what the Wii has and EA, UbiSoft, Activision, and other big publishers release games of better quality than that of exclusively shovelware pubishers so their games shouldn't be as bad as the Wii's shovelware either.

I agree, it would of been better if they had done what Sony is doing and said Kinect will also work with say Halo Reach, but i dont think the sales would of been much higher if that were the case. I think tapping into that casual crowd will be more than enough for MS at this point(that is IF they succeed in getting that crowd)
With a $150 price point, I don't see them tapping into that casual market. The biggest reason why Tony Hawk Ride bombed was because it cost too much for the average consumer.

With a $150 price point, they should have focused on the hardcore market because they would have gobbled it all up. Instead you have a pissed off hardcore market, a casual market that won't buy the Kinect due to a high price, and the casuals aren't going to buy a 360 if they don't already have one. The Xbox brand is far too imbedded as a hardcore gamer brand as opposed to the casual brands that Sony and Nintendo developed.

Fading

07-25-2010, 06:19 PM

I only said "I hope people lose their jobs over this if it fails" because I think that the amount of money spent on Kinect could have gone toward a new IP or 2. Spend the money on games, not a gimmick.

I didn't even realize you had said that, no offense meant. I was actually refering to comments I had read on other sites heh.

Donut

07-26-2010, 01:47 PM

It looks like Toys R Us is not letting people get Kinetic for $89 bucks as I got this Email today

We wanted to let you know that we experienced a technical error with the order you placed for the Kinect Sensor for Xbox 360. As a result, a 40% off promotional code was incorrectly applied to this item. Your order, order #9190822066, received this erroneous deduction, and, as a result, will be cancelled. You will receive a follow-up email confirming this information.

We sincerely apologize for this error.

Please accept $10 off your next purchase at Toysrus.com or Babiesrus.com. This offer may be used on the Kinect Sensor for Xbox 360, if you are still interested in ordering this item at Toysrus.com.

Did anyone else get this ?

jacobed

08-02-2010, 02:02 AM

I played the Kinect over the weekend at a booth they had at the Mall of America. I played rallyball, the kart racing game, and the river rafting game. Don't let videos fool you, this thing is a lot of fun. Obviously they'll need to come out with some hardcore titles for the gamers but this thing will be amazingly popular with families, girlfriends, or if you are having a party. The little kids there were just eating this up and loved every second of it. I had a blast and I'm definitely sold on it.

Grievous

08-02-2010, 03:15 AM

^ EA might be jumping the gun a bit. We don't even know if Kinect is going to sell well, and EA is already talking about making a whole studio just for Kinect games?
If I could choose for EA I would give a solid no. The way I see it Kinect is going to be like Arcade games. One or Two might sell well but they fail when compared to actually games ex:Halo,COD,Gears,Dead Space,other shooters and fighters. Plus I've already learned that many shotter fans don't really care for kinect since it's more for the new to video games and casual before and after work gamers, and there is nothing wrong with Microsoft wanting to please the casual crowd instead of focusing all their attention on the hardcore shooter fans. But when you make the casual crowd the apple of your eye instead of the hardcore fans that are the backbone of your profits then it could not end very well depending on how far Microsoft plans on going with Kinect, My thoughts.

KALEL114

08-02-2010, 08:48 AM

I know they want to pull in the casual crowd and I am cool with that, but I feel that this tech is just not ready yet. With every positive thing written about it, ten negative things pop up. It has way too many restrictions for a casual gamer and I see people getting really pissed off with it when they get it in their homes. Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I have not seen anything yet to show me otherwise.

Soapy

08-06-2010, 04:55 PM

Quick Look: Sonic Free Riders (http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-sonic-free-riders/17-3025/)

Havok83

08-06-2010, 05:12 PM

Quick Look: Sonic Free Riders (http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-sonic-free-riders/17-3025/)
I dont have much confidence in this title as the Sonic Rider games sucked even with a gamepad

Timstuff

08-10-2010, 11:49 AM

Sonic Riders Kinect is conceptually pretty similar to Eyetoy antigrav.

JFyEqpDOf8U

More and more Kinect is looking to be pretty much a current-gen version of the Eyetoy. There's not really any new ideas coming out of it, which is probably why Sony decided to pass on the tech. Considering how much more expensive the tech is, I am not seeing much new stuff in terms of gameplay possibilities, if any.

Cth

08-10-2010, 11:58 AM

http://www.ifc.com/news/2010/08/the-xbox-360s-kinect-will-unde.php

http://www.ifc.com/news/assets_c/08062010_Kinect_sign_language.jpg

The Xbox 360's Kinect Will Understand Sign Language and Read Lips

Per Edge Online and Slash Gear, Kinect--the upcoming motion control camera
for the Xbox 360--will recognize American Sign Language and will visually
recognize spoken words. The news comes from a patent application for
'gesture keyboarding.' The description from the application reads:

"A user makes a gesture by either making a pose or moving in a pre-defined
way that is captured by a depth camera. The depth information provided by
the depth camera is parsed to determine at least that part of the user
that is making the gesture. When parsed, the character or action signified
by this gesture is identified."

This patent filing is interesting for a few reasons. Microsoft's been
talking up possible medical uses of the Kinect technology and gesture
recognition like that used could be a gateway to more robust biometric
applications. The way Kinect works is by tracking your skeleton and the
joints across your body, so it's not a stretch to see physical therapy or
body movement applications for the depth-sensing camera.

From a more game-focused standpoint, this feature could be as a faster way
to do generate text chat or emoticon-like responses in real time during,
say, a "Red Dead Revolver" multiplayer session. The real question: will it
recognize you flipping the bird?

KALEL114

08-11-2010, 10:05 AM

Rumor: Kinect Downgraded To Save Money, Can't read Sign Language

The patent for Microsoft's motion-sensing camera Kinect suggested that the device could understand American Sign Language (http://kotaku.com/5607905/kinect-patent-says-it-can-read-sign-language). Well, it can't. At least, the version going on sale in November can't.
Responding to the claims made in the patent, Microsoft has told Kotaku "We are excited about the potential of Kinect and its potential to impact gaming and entertainment. Microsoft files lots of patent applications to protect our intellectual property, not all of which are brought to market right away. Kinect that is shipping this holiday will not support sign language."
So why did the patent suggest it could? Well, sources close to the evolution of Kinect's development tell us it's because the version of the hardware that'll be available later this year isn't as capable as was originally intended.
The original Kinect had a much higher resolution (over twice that of the final model's 320x240), and as such, was able to not only recognise the limbs of a player as the current model version can, but their fingers as well (which the current version can't). And when the hardware could recognise fingers, it would have been able to read sign language.
But that capability came at a cost, and while Microsoft had always intended Kinect to sell for $150, "dumbing down" the camera would have meant that Microsoft wouldn't be losing as much money on each unit sold, an important point should Kinect prove to be a failure. So dumb it down they did, reducing the camera's resolution (which in turn reduced the number of appendages it'd have to track) and placing the burden for some of the device's processing on the console and not Kinect's own hardware.
This probably isn't the first time you've heard such a rumour, but this latest time at least explains why Kinect can't read sign language!
We've reached out to Microsoft for comment on the matter, and will update if we hear back.

http://kotaku.com/5609840/kinect-dumbed-down-to-save-money-cant-read-sign-language

Timstuff

08-11-2010, 12:10 PM

I love how patents always look like they're drawn by third graders. :hehe:

Fading

08-11-2010, 12:55 PM

Glad that cleares things up, that was bugging me (the conflicting stories). I mean I wish sign language was recognized by it, as I think that was be an awesome feature that could help a lot of ppl. However ppl have been saying Kinect couldn't recognize fingers. I was curious how sign language was going to be used if it couldn't detect what you use to make sign language in the first place. Hopefully it can still be added down the road tho.

One thing I wonder tho, like the article mentions above, it seems like a lot of features were meant to be in it that won't be with the launch devices. So is this going to be a PS3 situation where they will be implemented down the line via firmware updates, or is this going to be a thing where multiple versions of Kinect are made and you have to buy newer ones to get the features. The reason I ask is because it slightly sounds like hardwares being left out to make it cheaper, but it could simply just be time constraints as much as anything and be fixable with updates.

Timstuff

08-11-2010, 01:01 PM

Kinect Downgraded To Save Money, Can't Read Sign Language

http://kotaku.com/5609840/kinect-dumbed-down-to-save-money-cant-read-sign-language

KALEL114

08-11-2010, 01:18 PM

Deja vu!!!

Timstuff

08-12-2010, 02:10 AM

One thing that could have helped make Kinect worthwhile would have been hand gestures, because without buttons that would be pretty much the only form of input signal. In its current form, Kinect is like having no hands or feet, where games are played by just batting at things with your stumpy forearms.

Soapy

08-16-2010, 01:23 PM

Jeff and Brad Play YooStar2 (http://www.giantbomb.com/jeff-and-brad-play-yoostar2/17-3052/)

hippie_hunter

08-16-2010, 02:21 PM

That actually looks kinda fun in a stupid kind of way.

Soapy

08-17-2010, 02:36 PM

Dance Central Interview (http://www.giantbomb.com/dance-central-interview/17-3070/)

jacobed

08-18-2010, 01:42 AM

I'm lookin forward to playing some Harry Potter with a friend on the Kinect.

Cth

08-19-2010, 10:38 AM

http://www.destructoid.com/watch-peter-molyneux-s-milo-demo-from-ted-181831.phtml#ext

Milo apparently uses cloud based AI and works sitting down.

Benstamania

08-19-2010, 01:13 PM

Kinect is SO weird with me....I want it, and yet I don't. I want it because I think the tech behind it is insanely interesting... And I don't want it because of the price and I'm worried Microsoft won't support it if it's not an INSTANT success.

Edit: I also have ZERO interest in Milo. It's not enough of a game for my interest.

Soapy

08-19-2010, 02:05 PM

I agree, the tech is awesome.

My current plans for Kinect are to wait until a year or so after release when it's inevitably a miserable failure and pick one up for a song and play around with it.

jacobed

08-19-2010, 04:39 PM

I think Microsoft will support the hell out of it because this is like their big thing. If they don't support it and it isn't a success than they'll need to hurry up with the successor to the 360 and they don't wanna do that if the ps3 is still out there.

Soapy

08-19-2010, 04:48 PM

I really don't think they're going to go out of their way to support it if it fails.

I think they're just using Kinect as a kind market research to see what they should focus on with their next console. If it really takes off, they'll probably focus a lot on motion controls. If no one buys the thing, maybe not so much.

KALEL114

08-24-2010, 08:22 AM

Kinect for Xbox 360 drops voice controls, video chat for launch

Part of Microsoft's push for Kinect included the ability to use voice commands to control and navigate the Xbox 360 dashboard and interact with games. This feature was demoed frequently since Kinect was first introduced as Project Natal. Now comes the disappointing news from Microsoft that the voice commands will not be enabled at launch.
Speaking with MCV (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/40584/No-voice-control-for-Kinect-launch?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+mcvuk%2FoXMK+%28MCV%3A+games+ industry+news%29) at GamesCom marketing manager for Xbox Live EMEA Robin Burrowes said, “we will be announcing when voice control will be turned on in due course.”
The removal of voice commands for Kinect also means the removal of "Video Kinect", a video chat service that Microsoft demonstrated during their E3 press conference.
While users won't be able to navigate around the Xbox 360 dashboard using their voice, games like Kinectimals and Michael Jackson: The Experience will still be voice-enabled.
Kinect launches on November 4 in the United States.

http://www.examiner.com/video-game-news-in-atlanta/kinect-for-xbox-360-drops-voice-controls-video-chat-for-launch

Rocker22

08-24-2010, 09:22 AM

UPDATE:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/111/1115555p1.html

KALEL114

08-24-2010, 10:40 AM

That's cool. It would have been a disaster if it wasn't part of the launch. It was a big draw for some people I know.

Isildur´s Heir

08-28-2010, 05:06 PM

Kinect will be the biggest failure in recent video game history.
It´s sad because i see it being a great peripheral, but the thing is, it will be released just like the 360 was, a half-baked product.

First it was said that Kinect would understand sign language and read lips, then it was said that it can´t.
Now, the rumors stated that it wouldn´t have voice recognition at launch, now Microsoft said it was a misunderstanding and it will have it.
In my understanding, Kinect will be nothing more than a glorified paperweight when it gets launched in November.
The all voice recogniton rumors only show that it will only understand english, which will make it a failure outside the US, UK and Australia (there are many people outside those countries that speak english very well, me included, but the majority don´t).
Even so, it might only understand simple commands like Yes and No, you say Maybe and it will explode.
And then there are the accents....

Last January, it was announced that Microsoft dropped the internal chip for Kinect, one of the reason being because a software solution should enable Microsoft to update the system more quickly and regularly than a hardware one.
The thing, we should have read between the lines.
At launch, Kinect will not be able to do 80% of what it was announced, then, after some updates, maybe......just maybe, it will be something acceptable.
In other words, it will be worth the money by fall 2011, at best.

By then, will anyone care?

Want more proff?
Just look at the crappy Kinect Dashboard

http://gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Kinect-Dashboard-Claudia.jpg

Not only it is very Wii like (with windows), it´s very simplistic, which gives the idea that kinect can´t recognize many movements, so, up / down left and right are out.

This would be a lot better

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/Xboxmarketplace.jpg

Because it would mean that you would need to move your hand and wrist like turning the pages of a book, it would be a much better experience in motion control

hippie_hunter

08-28-2010, 05:41 PM

Kinect just sounds worse and worse every day :(

Havok83

08-28-2010, 06:11 PM

Isildur´s Heir

08-28-2010, 06:45 PM

I think MS has failed to sell Kinect to consumers. Theres really no titles on there that look appealing. I can commend them trying to be innovative and doing something different but they went too left field on this one. I cant see how they ever hought it was a good idea. Gaming with no controls? The technology will probably have some use in a few years but I cant see this enhancing gaming. Has MS even put together a trailer for Kinect and what it has to offer?. I saw the GDC one that Sony did for Move and it was rather impressive. MS really should be pushing its games, but Im really not seeing the software justifying a purchase for this
I can´t really agree with you on this one, Kinect can very well be the next best thing to ever happen to gaming, the problem is, it won´t be, not in the next few years, and not because it´s Microsoft.
But i do agree that they failed to sell Kinect to consumers, they failed hard on E3, they missed on the WOW factor.

The thing is, IMO, Kinect is indeed the future of gaming, but the weird part is, Microsoft has still to realize that.
Kinect was done because MS wanted to get into the all motion control craze, but didn´t want to make a Wii 2.0, they wanted something completly diferent, something that could crush the Wii on their own game.

What is the pinnacle of video games?
Answer this, and you will understand the importance of Kinect and why it is the future.

Ok, the pinnacle of gaming is the Star Trek Holodeck, the X-Men Danger Room, the Matrix.
The point is not if it is possible to be made (i doubt it, as it involves the holograms to have mass and "exist"), but that Kinect is the starting point of that notion to happen, to be you and the game, with nothing in between (nothing meaning controllers).

Fading

08-28-2010, 09:31 PM

Kinect will have it's own dashboard? I thought it'd use the normal menu's. I dunno, I try not to bother with it anymore since I've been pretty down on it in the past. I hope those who buy it enjoy it. At the same time it does bother me that the $150 price includes the cut out motherboard, you'd think it nearly being the same price as a Wii wouldn't mean cutting out important hardware to price reduce.

As corny as this sounds, my Grandma always said when cooking that you can add too, but never take away (like any salt you add to the dish is part of that dish now period). I see Kinect the same way. Where with the Wii and PS3 Move, the Wii and PS3 themselves are the platforms, and the Wii motion controls and PS3 move are interchangeable peripherals that can have more functionality added with small extra gadgets (Wii-Mote, vitality sensor, Playstation navigation), or firmware updates, Kinect on the other hand is the platform in a sense. What hardware it ships with is what limits what can be made on it. Short of releasing an entirely different Kinect, and thus alienating all previous purcharsers, basically Kinect is stuck with how it launches. If by removing hardware to drive down the cost they end up making it where Kinect will never be able to read things as fine as fingers (not saying that's the case, just an example), Kinect is hurting it's future line up.

I guess another thing that gets me is that for being such a high tech device, it's really lacking features. Where Move will be able to recognize how tight you grip, twitches of your wrist, and ignoring multiplayer costs, you get a camera, and the controller for under $100, Kinect will be $150 and not recognize fingers, require you to change clothes to play if you're wearing baggy clothes or a dress, and so on. I think, and this is just my opinion, that if Kinect really does launch with all of the problems that are commented on not being fixed, that sales might be heavily front loaded. That while 2 million may buy at launch, that they may not pass on good word of mouth once they find out things promised early on (like the launch videos of scanning in skate boards, or talking and walking with Milo) aren't in the final product (even if they get added in a year later via firmware if that's possible), and Kinect sales may suffer for it. Since Microsoft is putting so much faith in Kinect to be a mid life bump for the 360 they really shouldn't have rushed things again, and not launched until the hardware supported what they wanted it to do, and they had good enough titles to launch with it.

ProjectPat2280

08-28-2010, 11:10 PM

Fading

08-29-2010, 12:48 AM

I wouldn't bet it, because I think you're right. Kinect has a lot of pre-orders and probably will beat Move this holdiay. However like I said above, how much is going to be front loaded? Will Kinect walk away with good word of mouth? Will it appeal to the core 360 base without hardcore games to back it up? Will it actually pull in the Wii crowd? Or is it mainly going to be early adopting tech junkies, and family men who are getting a present for the family and themselves at the same time lol.

This is just my guess, and I'm not good with numbers, but I think it'll go somewhat like this -

Kinect will sell a **** load off the bat. Probably close to 2 million, maybe 3-4 million by the end of the year. Where Move will sell probably 1-1.5 million move bundles, and another million or so single Moves (some ppl already have an eye, others will want a second controller or two), and probably half a million navigations. Maybe a million or so more by the end of the year, but overall Kinect will have sold more complete units.

However as ppl mention when they get a headshot online that Move is really accurate and brag, or ppl start seeing games like Killzone 3 near launch and see Move hyped for it, I think the word of mouth will pick up. We'll see Move sales stay more stable. Kinect on the other hand I think will be front loaded, and kick ass during the holiday, but slow down in sales dramatically after. If Kinect really is having all of the problems out of the box that everyone is saying it will have, bad word of mouth from Kinect owners telling their 360 owning friends to just wait for better games to come out could lead to Kinect sales slowing until better games start coming out a year down the road.

Again, guess work. I'm basically talking out my ass and making up numbers, and am probably wrong. However that's how my current impressions say it'll go. That during the Holiday that Microsoft and it's media assault force will trounce the Move and give Sony a verbal beating in twitter like usual, but that given time down the road Move will probably surpass Kinect sales.

Then again there's always the factor of price, and lack of appealing games, and maybe it will bomb. Maybe it'll sell like crazy and sales stay stable. Personally I don't care which wins out personally, and just hope they both sell well enough to keep those who manufacture them with jobs, and that those who buy them enjoy them. My beef with Kinect is more on Microsoft's marketing of lying about features, removing hardware while keeping the price up to usual 360 peripheral sky high standards, and ignoring pretty much everyone who owns a 360 with their launch titles to chase after the Wii. This is less fanboy, and more (to me) common sense. If Move's lineup was Hanna Montanna, and Move Animals with no hardcore, and the press on it was saying the tilt roation was a lie, that it wasn't accurate, that Move was buggy and glitchy to hell...I'd be on Sony as well.

Edit - Guess I shouldn't have mentioned pre-orders. Last time I checked Amazon Kinect was almost first and Move barely in the top 200. Not that Amazon is a reliable source, but I guess with Move being a month out it's pre-orders sky rockected. Seeing Move bundle at 49, a single Move at 54, and Kinect at 68. So seems like the pre-orders are fluctuating.

Havok83

08-29-2010, 05:24 AM

Any body willing to bet me that Kinect wont dominate the holiday market, specifically the Move?

Im serious, if Kinect fails to outsell the Move, ill wire the winnings to a pay pal account. 100 bux says Kinect and MS dominate Sony and the Move this holiday.

I know im only one employee at one Gamestop, but the talk for Kinect has far, far outweighed any talk on the Move.
It depends on what the basis for sales are. Units moved? Total profits made? If its profits, 1 Kinect is equal to 3 Moves. If its units, well Kinect will only be sold as one package, whereas Move has a variety of configurations. There's the standalone Move, the Move/camera/game bundle and the PS3/Move bundle. How would sales be determined. The Sports Champions bundle will most likely be counted with the game sales, the standalone with the accesories and the PS3 bundle would be lumped in with PS3 sales with no indication of what percentage accounts for that. With all these factors in play, Move sales may be underrerpesented. On the flip side, since each comes with 1 controller, people may be buying multiples and that could skew the numbers in the other direction. Basically Im not sure if the numbers will be directly comparable between the 2 as theres several things to consider.

Where Move will be able to recognize how tight you grip, twitches of your wrist,
really? I did not know that

jacobed

08-29-2010, 06:10 AM

Yeah I agree, there is a lot more interest in Kinect than a lot of people think there is. I've played it, it's incredibly fun and I look forward to getting one. It does exactly what its designed to do, a device for the 360 that your family, girlfriend, anyone will immediately be interested in and want to play. Why does there need to be hardcore titles for it to be a success, just that train of thought is stupid. Microsoft is bringing out the hardcore titles with Halo, Fable, Gears, MGS: Rising, but they also want to tap into that casual market hence Kinect. Obviously down the road a bit there will be hardcore titles but I don't understand why there needs to be some when it releases for it to be successful.

KALEL114

08-29-2010, 08:34 AM

Fading

08-29-2010, 10:12 AM

Why does there need to be hardcore titles for it to be a success, just that train of thought is stupid.

It's not stupid, IMO it's common sense. The 360 is one of the most hardcore gaming systems ever released. FPS's are it's main sellers. It's not like Nintendo that has more casual games mixed in with hardcore, nor even like Sony who have a wide variation of titles ranging from casual to hardcore as well. 360 is all about hardcore gaming, and online gaming. There is 0% guarntee the casual crowd will want Kinect, and by aiming their sights completely away from 90% of the current 360 owners it's success is up in the air. Will the casual crowd buy an 360, and then plop down $150 for Kinect and get one packaged game with no real stand out titles? Or will they put down $200 to get one of the many Wii deals that comes with multiple games, and has titles like Mario, Zelda, and Wii Fit?

Hardcore gamers seem to be the most reliable buyers, especially when considering early adopters which can make or break a device. Putting out 1 or 2 hardcore titles that could bring in some of those 40 million 360 owners is not stupid, it's being safe by knowing if you don't capture that mythical casual crowd that Nintendo has such a tight hold on, that your device won't fail because you have your loyal current customers to fall back on.

Even tho Kinect may outsell Move off the bat, I think Sony was smarter in who and how they're marketing it. They're pulling a Nintendo. Nintendo has it's Wii Fit, and Nintendogs, but it also has it's Mario and Zelda. Sony will have it's Move Party and Move Champion sports games, but it will also have it's Killzone, Sorcery, and Heroes on the move. Both Sony and Nintendo have catered to everyone. Where Kinect seems just to be catering to the casual side, which again may or may not be pulled from Nintendo's grasp.

Personally, I think peripherals introduced late in a consoles life will mainly appeal to current owners, especially expensive peripherals. I think capturing an entirely new crowd that didn't bite before just because of an $150 attachment is an uphill battle. If the 360 had launched with Kinect it'd be a different deal, but now (IMO) Kinect will be lucky if 1 in 4 360 owners pick it up (which would be 10 million total) before this gen ends.

really? I did not know that

Well, I heard early on that it was suppsed to detect pressure and grip. However looking for more info I'm only seeing ppl say presure sensitive buttons. I'll look up more later and try to find where I heard that from, I could be wrong.

As far as tilt and twists of the wrists tho, that much I know is fact. Ppl trying the tennis demo were putting top spins on the ball. In another Move demo they were not only moving video screens around, but bending them in and out like a folding paper just by bending their hands backwards and forwards. So move will no only detect up and down, in and out, but angles, and rotating and twisting your hands in pretty much anyway you can think of.

It also predicts movement out of sight of the camera. Like where one of the ppl demoing it had a virtual sword attached to it, and he tossed it up behind his back and caught it after it came back over his shoulder, and you could see bits of the sword twirling behind his back. So Move also seems to work behind objects as well.

Edit - This may have been where I got the pressure sensitive thing from, from Kotaku -

And what of games? “If you want to place something in the 3D world; if you want to reach into the 3D world and manipulate. .. maybe I can grab things. (Fellow Move researcher) Anton Mikhailov wants to make a game where there’s things like eggs that you have to pick up softly and other things you have to pick up with ammo triggered to them.

Where he was talking about having to pick up eggs softly, or being careful with explosives in a game with the Move controller. Tho I'm not sure if it means when you grip the controller, or again talking about the above mentioned pressure sensitive buttons.

Fading

08-29-2010, 10:22 AM

Like I said before, I think the idea of Kinect is great, but it is being rushed out to market. It has too many restrictions to be successful, long term, in the casual market. Having a party? Make sure no one is standing behind you while you play, because it will mess with the tracking. Live in a small apartment or dorm room? You might not have enough space to use it. Like baggy clothes or wearing a skirt? Not going to work. Have an accent? Voice control will probably not work for you. Just to name a few.

That to me is not casual. Casual to me is picking up and playing without having to worry about any of those things and it defeats the purpose of targeting the casual market. Will Kinect sell well initially? For sure, but will sales decline after word of mouth spreads to casuals? I believe so. It will be real interesting to see how many get returned to stores for not working the way some expected when purchasing it.

I think MS should have put more time in the Kinect. Maybe they should have held off and released it with the next Xbox. Perhaps then they could have perfected it, but as it stands now, MS has pumped Kinect with way too many expectations and it is going to bite them in the rear when it is all said and done.

I agee. When I think of gaming, part of what I think about is after a hard days work, coming home, plopping down on a couch, picking up a controller and playing something to relax and wind down. I don't think of having to go to my room and get a change of clothes, rearrange all the furniture in my living room within 6 ft. of my TV, stand up for hours, and so on. It's not just a Kinect thing tho, I didn't buy an Eyetoy or PS Eye either because I'm not a huge fan of gimmicky peripherals I'll use rarely. I bought a Guncon and loved TimeCrisis back on the PS1, but never got any other use out of it past 1 game. The only reason I started considering Move is because I can use it exactly the same way I use my current controller, but with Mouse like precision (I've gotten better at console shooters, but I still prefer a Mouse and keyboard for FPS's).

I think Kinect will have some fun gaming moments if you're into the types of games it's releasing. I also think that dashboard navigation (while a bit more of a hassle than pressing a button or two) would be neat. However at the same time it's just not for me, then again it's not targeting me either. I just don't see it being too much use for hardcore gaming, and it seems like you have to do half a dozen things, and have a good setup just to use it.

Again tho, more power to those who buy it. Not trying to dissuade anyone, or be down on anyone who likes it. Just speaking to my personal preferences.

Isildur´s Heir

08-29-2010, 11:30 AM

Again tho, more power to those who buy it. Not trying to dissuade anyone, or be down on anyone who likes it. Just speaking to my personal preferences.
Speak for yourself because i really want Kinect to fail.
In my understanding, Microsoft needs to fall hard for them open their eyes.
That´s why i´m extremely happy that they just lost Mass Effect for the PS3.
So, IMO, Kinect to fail would be for MS own good.

But, back on Kinect, i can easily think of a lot of ways for it to be the best thing since sliced bread.
I can think of a lot of way MS could have wowed last E3.
I can think a lot of ways you can enhance gaming, hell i can even think of ways to do an FPS with Kinect that could be the best thing ever.
The problem is, either MS don´t think about that or they just don´t care; or MS thinks about that but Kinect´s tech can´t do that (which i believe to be true).

As for Move.....
Move is a glorified Wii, that´s not necessarily a bad thing, but, the only thing going for it when compared to the Nintendo console is thet fact that it uses a camera insted of a sensor bar.
When compared to Kinect, their biggest asset, the one thing that Kinect can´t do, is not that it has buttons, but rather force feedback.
With move (and the Wii for that matter) you are holding something that responds to what is happening on screen.

The lack of buttons is not really a problem.
Sure, it takes more out of the player, but, just like every press of a button has a physical reaction from the character, the player can do it physically as well, and it is much more immersive than button pressing.

ProjectPat2280

08-29-2010, 04:18 PM

It depends on what the basis for sales are. Units moved? Total profits made? If its profits, 1 Kinect is equal to 3 Moves. If its units, well Kinect will only be sold as one package, whereas Move has a variety of configurations. There's the standalone Move, the Move/camera/game bundle and the PS3/Move bundle. How would sales be determined. The Sports Champions bundle will most likely be counted with the game sales, the standalone with the accesories and the PS3 bundle would be lumped in with PS3 sales with no indication of what percentage accounts for that. With all these factors in play, Move sales may be underrerpesented. On the flip side, since each comes with 1 controller, people may be buying multiples and that could skew the numbers in the other direction. Basically Im not sure if the numbers will be directly comparable between the 2 as theres several things to consider.

There will be more Kinects in households than Moves, thats the bet. You in? If Playstations Move is more successful than MS's Kinect, ill wire you 100 bux.

The problem with Move is it doesn't know if it wants to be a hardcore peripheral or a casual and i don't think it will get many of either. The PS3 is a terrible machine for the casual audience. That system is not consumer friendly, in any way. Both MS's system and Nintendo's system are far more suited for that casual market than Sony's. I think the amount of pickup that Kinect gets with JUST its casual market will outweigh both the casual and hardcore users for the Move. I dont see the hardcore making the switch to Move in large numbers and i dont see many casual individuals going to the Playstation. The casual battle has been won by Nintendo but there isnt a battle for 2nd. The Playstation isnt a user friendly system. Ppl keep talking about the hardcore crowd, they arent going anywhere just because MS is releasing a casual device. Kinect does NOT have to get the hardcore crowd to be successful. As long as there are the shooters and the Fables then MS will be fine.

I also find it interesting that a lot of the discussion with Move vs Kinect is coming from individuals who dont own both consoles. Just sayin...

Havok83

08-29-2010, 05:44 PM

The problem with Move is it doesn't know if it wants to be a hardcore peripheral or a casual
Why does it have to be either or? Sony has done a good job at demonstrating that its a good device for BOTH hardcore and casual games. Their lineup is very diverse and covers a range of genres and the stuff shown actually looks decent.

hippie_hunter

08-29-2010, 06:05 PM

There will be more Kinects in households than Moves, thats the bet. You in? If Playstations Move is more successful than MS's Kinect, ill wire you 100 bux.

The problem with Move is it doesn't know if it wants to be a hardcore peripheral or a casual and i don't think it will get many of either. The PS3 is a terrible machine for the casual audience. That system is not consumer friendly, in any way. Both MS's system and Nintendo's system are far more suited for that casual market than Sony's. I think the amount of pickup that Kinect gets with JUST its casual market will outweigh both the casual and hardcore users for the Move. I dont see the hardcore making the switch to Move in large numbers and i dont see many casual individuals going to the Playstation. The casual battle has been won by Nintendo but there isnt a battle for 2nd. The Playstation isnt a user friendly system. Ppl keep talking about the hardcore crowd, they arent going anywhere just because MS is releasing a casual device. Kinect does NOT have to get the hardcore crowd to be successful. As long as there are the shooters and the Fables then MS will be fine.

I also find it interesting that a lot of the discussion with Move vs Kinect is coming from individuals who dont own both consoles. Just sayin...

Personally I think Kinect will sell more in North America while the Move will sell more in Europe and Japan.

Overall, I think that'll be a tough one. But I will add that Kinect needs the hardcore crowd because the hardcore crowd is the audience that will pay $150 for a souped up EyeToy. The casual audience will not pay that price for what they see as a camera peripheral. It's why Tony Hawk: Ride failed. Too high of a price point for a peripheral.

ProjectPat2280

08-29-2010, 07:10 PM

Personally I think Kinect will sell more in North America while the Move will sell more in Europe and Japan.

Overall, I think that'll be a tough one. But I will add that Kinect needs the hardcore crowd because the hardcore crowd is the audience that will pay $150 for a souped up EyeToy. The casual audience will not pay that price for what they see as a camera peripheral. It's why Tony Hawk: Ride failed. Too high of a price point for a peripheral.

Yea when the price point was announced i thought it was too high, but thats just not what i am seeing from my customers. Ill try and get the numbers when i go in to work on Thursday, but the last time i checked Kinect was heavily out pacing Move in our store.

ProjectPat2280

08-29-2010, 07:11 PM

Why does it have to be either or? Sony has done a good job at demonstrating that its a good device for BOTH hardcore and casual games. Their lineup is very diverse and covers a range of genres and the stuff shown actually looks decent.

Because its not going to get enough of each crowd to make a difference. I do not see the hardcore crowd taking to the Move like Sony thinks and Sony's system is not casual friendly so they arent going to bring many new casual players in with the Move.

Its not going to be nearly as successful as Kinect, and im willing to bet on that.

Altho, in the long run i dont see either item doing what both MS and Sony want, which is to take Nintendos casual market. Thats why these two devices are coming out.

Fading

08-29-2010, 09:22 PM

Ok, I'm confused here, how is the Playstation brand horrible for casuals, and the Xbox brand great for them? I'm seriously just not getting that...at all...honestly. Is it the games? Because unless everyone erased the last few decades, Playstations topped two generations, and a lot of those sales were to casual buyers along with hardcore buyers. Playstation is pretty much about being a bit more hardcore, but catering to everyone. They have had their Crash Bandicoot like casual friendly mascots as well as their Uncharted shooters. Xbox has been a hardcore targeted machine from the original to the 360, and 90% of the current crowd lean more hardcore than casual. How is the 360, which probably has a much higher hardcore % crowd than the PS3 more casual friendly? The only casual thing the 360 has done is what it's doing with Kinect, and that's not even out yet.

Is it the online experience? Now obviously a few of you like Live more, so this isn't a comparison per se, however I find free online and using real dollar conversion rates more casual friendly than Microsoft made up points and a yearly fee.

Honestly, I know it's a silly point to argue, I just don't get it. With Playstation you have your Nascar fans, movie buffs, hardcore, casual, platforming fans, sports fans, rpg fans, ect. buying it. With the 360 you have hardcore, typically into FPS and 3rd person shooter, and into online in general crowd.

As far as your store goes, I believe you, but you can't take personal experience into account. I've seen it all too often this gen where one person says they have 30 PS3's on the shelf, and the next says PS3's don't stay on the shelves more than a few minutes. I've seen ppl say at their store that more ppl talk about Move, and others say Kinect. According to Amazon it's been heavily back and forth, Kinect dominating early, and now 2 Move products ahead of Kinect.

If there's one thing this generation of gaming has shown, it's that it's unpredictable. Where the PS2 ended last gen with like 120 million sold, and the Xbox and Gamecube hovering around 30 million, this gen it's a lot more even with the leader in the Wii, while having sold more, not being almost 100 million ahead, but rather more like 30 million and losing ground. Could the 360 tap into the casual crowd that it hasn't until now? Sure, but I wouldn't say it's more casual friendly than the PS3 just because Kinect is aiming to be more casual than Move. Nothing that has happened until this point has shown that the 360 is a casual gamers dream machine, and nothing has shown that the casual crowd has any interest in moving away from the Wii.

hippie_hunter

08-29-2010, 09:55 PM

Yea when the price point was announced i thought it was too high, but thats just not what i am seeing from my customers. Ill try and get the numbers when i go in to work on Thursday, but the last time i checked Kinect was heavily out pacing Move in our store.
Well to be fair, Microsoft has done a better job in having people know more about Kinect than Sony is with the PlayStation Move. Due to its control scheme, Kinect is going to get more notice than the PlayStation Move.

And dare I say, a lot of Move customers are going to be like myself, we're not going to even bother pre-ordering. Unlike Microsoft is treating Kinect, Sony isn't treating Move as a new system launch, so why should I, and others, hype ourselves up, and pre-order something that there will be plenty of, and most likely won't run out.

Fading

08-29-2010, 11:28 PM

Well to be fair, Microsoft has done a better job in having people know more about Kinect than Sony is with the PlayStation Move. Due to its control scheme, Kinect is going to get more notice than the PlayStation Move.

And dare I say, a lot of Move customers are going to be like myself, we're not going to even bother pre-ordering. Unlike Microsoft is treating Kinect, Sony isn't treating Move as a new system launch, so why should I, and others, hype ourselves up, and pre-order something that there will be plenty of, and most likely won't run out.

Yeah, I rarely pre-order. I never have trouble finding an item at a local Wal-Mart, must not be much competition gaming wise around here lol. So I'll be picking mine up there, and if I can't go in person I have a friend who works there and can have him pick it up for me with a discount lol.

As far as Microsoft doing a better job with getting ppl to know Kinect, no doubt. Microsoft has a good hype machine, when they want something advertised they can get it done. The day after E3 it was already appearing on late night shows, the Today Show, talk shows, I'm surprised Microsoft didn't put up late night informercials on it. With Move they're relying more on product placement, like a Coke deal, and I believe they have a Subway deal as well.

Havok83

08-30-2010, 04:48 AM

ProjectPat2280

08-30-2010, 08:31 AM

Ok, I'm confused here, how is the Playstation brand horrible for casuals, and the Xbox brand great for them? I'm seriously just not getting that...at all...honestly. Is it the games? Because unless everyone erased the last few decades, Playstations topped two generations, and a lot of those sales were to casual buyers along with hardcore buyers. Playstation is pretty much about being a bit more hardcore, but catering to everyone. They have had their Crash Bandicoot like casual friendly mascots as well as their Uncharted shooters. Xbox has been a hardcore targeted machine from the original to the 360, and 90% of the current crowd lean more hardcore than casual. How is the 360, which probably has a much higher hardcore % crowd than the PS3 more casual friendly? The only casual thing the 360 has done is what it's doing with Kinect, and that's not even out yet.

Is it the online experience? Now obviously a few of you like Live more, so this isn't a comparison per se, however I find free online and using real dollar conversion rates more casual friendly than Microsoft made up points and a yearly fee.

Honestly, I know it's a silly point to argue, I just don't get it. With Playstation you have your Nascar fans, movie buffs, hardcore, casual, platforming fans, sports fans, rpg fans, ect. buying it. With the 360 you have hardcore, typically into FPS and 3rd person shooter, and into online in general crowd.

Thats the biggest misconception that PS3 only users throw out. 'Well the only people buying the Xbox are shooter fans', and thats just not the case, at all. Comparatively, the PS3 is a much more complicated system vs the Xbox. Live's market place is set up better, friends list, messaging etc is all smoother on the 360, i know this because i own and use both. Not saying there arent some things the PS3 does better tho, the MS points system is more than awful, but overall the PS3, is not as user friendly a system.

But this is getting too off topic so thats the last ill say on the matter, but i guess when you have PS3 only users posting in a Kinect thread, the topic is bound to veer off course.

Cth

08-30-2010, 08:42 AM

It's hard to say.

As mentioned earlier, tracking for the bundles on both is going to be hard to measure. Add in the fact that Walmart and the sort aren't going to be tracked, and it's even harder to tell who's outselling who.

That having been said, MS is still working on Kinect, and I'd imagine WoM starts picking up fairly consistently in the next month or so. Not only do you have the beta test units going out, you've got the tour where casuals can get a hands on with the system.

So far from what I can tell Move only has the Subway promotion going on at the moment.

And for what it's worth, here's what I own:
3 - Xbox 360
1 - PS3
1 - Wii
3 - PSP
2 - DS
2 - iPOD

ProjectPat2280

08-30-2010, 08:48 AM

Well im not saying ya have to own every system to have an opinion, i just find it interesting that individuals who don't own a 360 have spent so much time in a Kinect thread.

Thought this was interesting, Kinect appearing on Entourage:

http://n4g.com/news/594502/kinect-makes-a-cameo-on-entourage

Cth

08-30-2010, 08:54 AM

True.. the point's been raised in the past about the Natal thread having more than a fair share of detractors posting in it.

Hopefully the Entourage appearance will be better than the Smallville one. :D

Fading

08-30-2010, 11:21 PM

Well this is a video game chat part of the boards, it's just conversation, I don't think any harm was meant. Plus, if only ppl posting only positive stuff were talking in this thread it would have been dead awhile ago, the rumors have stirred up a lot of conversation lol.

Plus, I think you guys are forgetting the first year of Natal's unveiling until it became Kinect. Again, look at the title..."It's effects on the WORLD!!!!"....When Kinect was first shown ppl thought it was going to change life as we know it, and it was a year long love fest. Meanwhile everyone was down on Move thinking it was a failure from the second it was shown. Then ppl actually started getting their hands on what was being hailed as the next coming, and they found out things shown in the Natal early videos weren't true, that promised functionality wasn't being delivered, that the price was high, that it wasn't a gaming version of a religious experience. So gaming journalists started reporting on all the hiccups, fanboys who hate MS went extremely overboard on the doom and gloom, fanboys who love MS defended it at every stop, and the rest of us just discussed the news that was coming out and voiced our own genuine opinions on what we were hearing.

I don't think it's a case of all of us in here being harsh on Kinect just to knock it, but that Kinect is receiving an unusually high amount of press (good and bad) during a slow gaming news period. Trust me, if Move had been shown off and ppl were genuinely disappointed in it past it being similar to the Wii, we'd all be in there knocking it as well. I mean I have no interest in sports games, but was in the thread where EA was charging extra for sports online stuff for used buyers. Sonic games have sucked for years and I don't buy them anymore, but I posted my disappointment in the Sonic Rainbow and Sonic Unleashed thread. It's all just discussion.

However if it honestly is bothering you guys, I don't want to make this thread uncomfortable. I'll try not to post my opinions in here unless some genuine news worthy stuff comes out. Maybe something huge will happen soon and we'll all migrate into another thread to talk about that lol.

Cth

08-31-2010, 07:25 AM

No one's suggesting that..

All opinions are welcome, and I don't think anyone is uncomfortable.

At least we can be glad it doesn't seem to have stirred up retaliatory posts in the Sony thread like this stuff does on other forums.

hippie_hunter

08-31-2010, 04:26 PM

Kinect will support Mexican, but not Spanish

http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/81780/kinect-will-launch-in-spain-with-mexican-language-support-only/

Havok83

08-31-2010, 05:16 PM

Mexican isnt a language. They really should have rephrased that differently and I hope it isnt shipped with Mexican as an option

hippie_hunter

08-31-2010, 06:58 PM

Mexican isnt a language. They really should have rephrased that differently and I hope it isnt shipped with Mexican as an option
Nope, it's being shipped with Mexican as the option.

Cth

09-01-2010, 07:57 AM

It's worth pointing out that they still have 3 months to patch it via update.

Not that there's a precedent for that or anything.

Isildur´s Heir

09-01-2010, 08:11 AM

English, Japanese and Mexican...once again Microsoft shows how much stupidity run their halls.

Like Havok said, MEXICAN IS NOT A FRICKING LANGUAGE!!
That´s ignorance and disrespect of an all country right there.
Weren´t they in school?
How did they missed the opportunity to say it would support AMERICAN is beyond me?!
There is no MEXICAN, it´s SPANISH; there is no AMERICAN, is ENGLISH and there is no BRAZILIAN, it´s PORTUGUESE.

I also like the moronic decision of having Japanese support.
I´m all for it, don´t get me wrong, but when the Japanese people don´t give a rat´s ass about the Xbox, it becames redundant to have it and not languages widely spoken.
Microsoft wants so much to get their foot into the Japanese market, that they became ridiculous.
There are 3 big markets when it comes to video games, the US, Japan and Europe (put the rest, like Australia in Europe for the matter at hand).
So, basically, Kinect will be for the US audience....Japan will not care, and no one with half a brain in Europe will buy it (except the UK, and even so....).

But i said Kinect would be the biggest pile of crap, and nothing so far shows that i´m wrong.
It will the biggest failure Microsoft since ever.

To have a wider appeal, Kinect should have support for the most spoken languages in the world and other important ones after that right off the bat.
Most spoken latin languages: Spanish, English and Portuguese
Other: French, German and Japanese

Havok83

09-01-2010, 08:18 AM

yeah it does seem odd that they'd be launching this with japanese support when the 360 presence is pretty low in that country and not with another widely used European language like french. And yea, having Mexican as an option is like putting American as an option. Who was behind that decision?

BlackLantern

09-01-2010, 09:31 AM

racists???

lol

Fading

09-01-2010, 10:05 AM

racists???

lol

I would have been laughing for days if they would have listed Redneck and Gangsta as options.

But yeah, calling it Mexican is ignorant. I mean I'm sure that tradional Spanish and the Spanish spoken in Mexico probably have drifted a bit in slang use or slight bit in accent, but Spanish is the language. It would be like MS saying Kinect supports American, or US North (the hint being problems with heavy southern, or European accents).

It's not the end of the world, and definitely not as bad as the, "kinect can't see black people" stuff, but I can't see ppl in Spanish speaking countries, let alone Mexico being flattered by it. Then again I don't see it stopping many, if any buyers, let alone causing controversy. I do see problems with sales over this in non English, Spanish, Japanese speaking countries tho when they hear they can't use the voice recognition tho. Not that I don't understand, finite resources and lotsa languages, but voice recognition is a big selling point to a lot of ppl.

BlackLantern

09-01-2010, 10:17 AM

this is why motion control needs to be stopped

Isildur´s Heir

09-01-2010, 03:52 PM

Just went to Kotaku and the problem is way bigger and more ridiculous than anyone can think of.
It´s not just laugh at Microsoft anymore, but there is really a problem in that company.
There is something extremely wrong with them...

Eurogamer has confirmed with Microsoft that when Kinect is released in November, no languages from mainland Europe will be supported. So if you're in France, or Italy, or Germany, or Switzerland, or the Netherlands, or Poland, or the Czech Republic, or...well, you get the idea. Live in any of those places and you won't be able to get around your Xbox 360 using the power of the human voice.

The kicker is that even if you live in those places and speak fluent English, it still won't work, as your Kinect will be locked to the same region as your Xbox 360.
WTF IS THAT????????????
Are they just insane, is Microsoft on drugs, is Microsoft going to commit financial suicide...WHAT??
Are they really going to release Kinect without voice command for the majority of the world?!
Are they really going to lock it by region?!
So, anyone that is fluent in one of the languages supported, or just want to speak those same languages...can´t?!
Microsoft is the first company i ever seen to makes every effort possible that have their newest product be a gigantic failure.
Is not just having 3 languages being supported, but actually locking it up so no one outside those can use it.
Why release Kinect outside the countries supported?
Hell, why release Kinect altogether?

Spanish...oh, i´m sorry MEXICAN...is supported, but Spain can´t use it?
And for what they say, the same applies to Canada, Australia....and the list goes on...
What kind of madness is this?

BlackLantern

09-01-2010, 03:57 PM

this is why motion/voice control needs to stop

controllers aren't racist

Benstamania

09-01-2010, 04:11 PM

Lol!

Benstamania

09-01-2010, 04:12 PM

Lol!

Fading

09-02-2010, 12:22 AM

I'm with Isildur in not being able to wrap my head around region lock. So if you speak English, or "Mexican", but live in Spain, too bad? What if you're a Mexican living in the US? Is "Mexican" region blocked here?

I'm trying figure out if it's a case of memory limitations so thet launch Kinect with support only for the main language spoken, or what? Because I'm not seeing the logic of Kinect supporting Spanish, but locking it in Spain. If the software is there, and being launched elsewhere, why not include it. This willnot help Microsoft's image in locking Kinect functionality in regions of Europe it should be trying to win over.

Then again Microsoft has traditionally went with the only US matters route, and still seems intent on throwing money at Japan, so their choice I guess.

Edit - *facepalm*, Just read Canada is also region blocked. Sorry my Canadian hypster friends, the videogame industry gives you the short end again. I can understand because of no French for French speaking Canadian's, but why not toss in English options, or is 'aboot' to big of an obstacle, lol.

Cth

09-02-2010, 08:08 AM

Microsoft is the first company i ever seen to makes every effort possible that have their newest product be a gigantic failure.

While the region thing is idiotic and baffling, it's hardly the first time a company has made every effort to be a gigantic failure.

Can we ease up on the hyperbole a bit?

BlackLantern -- if you're going to troll at least be halfway entertaining or offer some variety. Jeez.

Isildur´s Heir

09-02-2010, 03:09 PM

Can we ease up on the hyperbole a bit?
Errrr....no

I can understand because of no French for French speaking Canadian's, but why not toss in English options, or is 'aboot' to big of an obstacle, lol.
You can understand, great, because i can´t.
Region lock is ridiculous, and i can´t even find a logic why that went with it.
What bugs me with the all language support is the fact that is not Mexican, it´s Spanish.
That just shows the disrespect Microsoft have for Europe.

But the region lock really upsets me.
I´ll give you a proper exemple.
I´m Portuguese, and i speak fluent English, but, if i would buy Kinect, i couldn´t use use voice commands in English.....that doesn´t even makes sense.

Cth

09-03-2010, 09:08 AM

Errrr....no

So much for having a decent discussion.

You have a legitmate complaint, but it's easy to dismiss it outright because you're acting like this is the first time a company has done something stupid.

BlackLantern

09-03-2010, 09:12 AM

I just feel that things like motion control and 3D are gimmicks that have no long lasting or inherent value to gaming

Soapy

09-03-2010, 09:47 AM

I can understand if you don't like them right now, but if you don't think they'll be important in the future then you're not looking far enough ahead.

Cth

09-03-2010, 11:48 AM

I just feel that things like motion control and 3D are gimmicks that have no long lasting or inherent value to gaming

That's completely understandable :)

And sorry for calling you out earlier, I was just hoping the thread wouldn't devolve into you posting that after everything :D

Anyways, you're right. For a lot of people motion control is very gimmicky. Look at how Wii sales have plummeted recently. What Sony and MS are probably trying to do is keep that new audience that the Wii brought, and selling them on better graphics, control, online, and multimedia functions.. all while trying to maintain their current fanbases which doesn't generally want that.

It's late in the console cycle and it's a gamble they're all taking hoping to keep things going a little longer before having to bring out the next generation of systems.

That having been said, bringing them out this late in the cycle isn't a smart thing generally. Consumers won't have an issue paying the price, but developers would.

Game budgets already barely break even, in some cases as loss leaders as they learn the tech (PS3) or set up DLC.

Now, programmers have to learn something new all over again which delays development which means they spend more without having anything to show for it. This is why a lot of early stuff is shovelware.

Of course, if half the fanbase buys a Move/Kinect, that divides the sales potential of titles for those who don't have a motion controller.

Which again, is why there's a lot of shovelware and testing out of the tech on both sides (player and designer)

The potential problem is if Sony and MS are using this to test how to approach the next generation. If it succeeds, then they get more time to develop and maybe some better games when it becomes standard on next cycle. If they don't succeed, there's a lot of time lost developing games no one plays.

On one hand, MS is playing it safe by doing Kinect in case it bombs, as hard core games are still being developed simultaneously. Sony's Move seems to be getting a little more push, so they have more to lose if theirs bombs.

Either way, it's a pivotal moment that's going to likely decide how next gen launches. After MS got an early lead last gen, everyone's going to be chomping at the bit to move ahead. All Wii has to do is slap HD graphics on their system, but with sales tanking, they may skip that thinking. If motion takes off for MS and Sony, then we're one step closer to next gen which will likely launch with motion as the standard.

Either way, the technology needs to advance further, and to their credit Sony and MS have done that with their respective motion controllers. If you don't like it, and again, that's fine, take solace in the fact that it's in its infancy, and the jump from Wii to Move/Kinect will likely undergo a similar leap if it moves forward as the new standard.

Fading

09-03-2010, 12:21 PM

I think there's a place for motion controls, just as a side peripheral and not the main controller. I'll still be able to use my Dualshock 3 for any game, but with Move I have the option to substitute it in for an FPS, or RTS. I still won't use it for Street Fighter, or Megaman, but the option is nice.

Wii couldn't sell itself to me because motion controls were the main draw, and most of that was flicks and waggles in place of the actual motion. I'll atleast say this, if I were against the introduction of Move and Kinect as peripherals purel because they use motion control, meanwhile supporting things like the Guncon, NES gun, Genesis gun, and other peripherals I'd be hypocritical. Them being the main controller in light of pushing aside traditional controllers, or the fear of traditional controllers being phased out I can understand.

That's not to say I still don't see Kinect offering much usefulness outside of party games, or not being fond Microsoft's marketing of it, but I'm not against it's release purely because of motion controls. On the note of marketing, I really, really hope Microsoft let's other countries know about the voice feature problem, and doesn't just leave it at a small murmur on an interview on the net. Some of these countries will be paying double what the US is paying expecting that huge feature to work. I'm not fond of this coming out so quietly after so many have pre-ordered it close to launch. The equivalent would be Nintendo selling all of it's products and games like normal, but not mentionin to Canada that the balance board won't work there until a patch possibly next year. Voice recognition is a huge selling point that will also seemingly be used in some launch titles like Kinectimals (the girl did call out to Skittles). Meaning not just dashboard function, but possible launch game inaccessibility.

Havok83

09-03-2010, 12:29 PM

The potential problem is if Sony and MS are using this to test how to approach the next generation. If it succeeds, then they get more time to develop and maybe some better games when it becomes standard on next cycle. If they don't succeed, there's a lot of time lost developing games no one plays.

On one hand, MS is playing it safe by doing Kinect in case it bombs, as hard core games are still being developed simultaneously. Sony's Move seems to be getting a little more push, so they have more to lose if theirs bombs.

Either way, it's a pivotal moment that's going to likely decide how next gen launches. After MS got an early lead last gen, everyone's going to be chomping at the bit to move ahead. All Wii has to do is slap HD graphics on their system, but with sales tanking, they may skip that thinking. If motion takes off for MS and Sony, then we're one step closer to next gen which will likely launch with motion as the standard.

Either way, the technology needs to advance further, and to their credit Sony and MS have done that with their respective motion controllers. If you don't like it, and again, that's fine, take solace in the fact that it's in its infancy, and the jump from Wii to Move/Kinect will likely undergo a similar leap if it moves forward as the new standard.I dont think either is doing this to test the next generation. Move and Kinect will be part of the next gen. Both MS and Sony have invested too much time, money and resources into them to abandon them. Even if they arent an initial success, the next gen will be about implementing right from the start and they will push it. By then alot of kinks will have been worked out

BlackLantern

09-03-2010, 12:40 PM

But a lot of these motion control games are little more than shovelware....can you do something like a Gears of War, Uncharted, or Fallout with motion control??

Havok83

09-03-2010, 12:43 PM

But a lot of these motion control games are little more than shovelware....can you do something like a Gears of War, Uncharted, or Fallout with motion control??
yes. If they can implement Move into Killzone 3 and Socom 4, I dont see why not. Alot of the games built specifically around the motion control games seem like shovelware, but there are quite a few AAA titles which have been announced and shown to support them.

BlackLantern

09-03-2010, 12:47 PM

well, I personally hope this all goes the way of the Eye Toy in a few years....if Epic or Valve just openly came out and said "**** motion control", that'd be great

Havok83

09-03-2010, 12:54 PM

well, I personally hope this all goes the way of the Eye Toy in a few years....if Epic or Valve just openly came out and said "**** motion control", that'd be great
but the Eye Toy, never went away...lol. Its the basis for the PS3's motion control push today

Cth

09-03-2010, 12:58 PM

But a lot of these motion control games are little more than shovelware....can you do something like a Gears of War, Uncharted, or Fallout with motion control??

Possibly, which is why I'm glad they're giving it a year before they try to implement it into those kinds of games.

MS knows where their bread and butter crowd is, and to force motion control this early on would sour them for the whole system.

I agree with FadingCB, as an extra peripheral it could be fun/useful, but as a main controller, I can't see it in its current form.

Isildur´s Heir

09-03-2010, 03:06 PM

So much for having a decent discussion.
First of all, the all errrrr.....no was a joke, second, why do you care if i´m exaggerating or not?
Does it it offend you or something?
This all mess deserves an hyperbole from time to time, as it is too ridiculous for words.
But i´ll stop, as it seems that some people are very sensitive when it comes to Microsoft

As for motion control being nothing more than gimmick, i can´t agree on that.
As Kinect goes, yes, it´s totally gimmick and Microsoft likes to remember us that from time to time, that Kinect is aimed for kids.
My problem with Kinect is that it has a great potential, but MS, either doesn´t care or doesn´t even know what their product can do.

BlackLantern

09-03-2010, 03:09 PM

what kind of potential are you talking about?? seriously....short of dodegeball and WiiFit knockoffs, what else is that piece of **** peripheral good for?

Havok83

09-06-2010, 12:40 PM

I got to use Kinect for the first time today and I have to say, I didnt like it. The mall near me had 4 Kiosk stations with Kinect Adventures, Kinect Sports, Dance Central and another game which was down. The first one I played was KA. Theres alot of jumping, ducking and moving about in that. There was a noticeable lag and it takes a slight second for yoru motion onscreen to match what you do. The thing just didnt feel like much fun. Dance Central was better. That seems like something thats more geared toward being a party title.. One thing that was a chore was just trying to select a song and navigate the menu with your hand. Id rather use acontrol for that as it was rather difficult. Its too sensitive and I had to go very slowly and precise for it to register. Both of these titles get you moving and I was actually sweating when I was done. I didnt get a chance to play Kinect Sports but I saw someone using bowling and that seemed interesting. Overall I wasnt impressed with Kinect and what was on display. The controls didnt quite work the way were supposed to. I did notice that it did attracted a few older people and kids, both of whom seemed to enjoy it. One comment I heard a woman who was using it say was that it was different and that is what will get people to look at it. That demographic and what was offered seemed more like the Wii crowd and considering thats what MS is going for, I can see it selling based on that alone. I just cant see a regular gamer, that uses a 360 as their primary platform of choice caring much for this thing. It doesnt enhance gaming; it offers a completely differnet experience and for me, not one that I really care to get into.

Isildur´s Heir

09-09-2010, 08:47 AM

what kind of potential are you talking about?? seriously....short of dodegeball and WiiFit knockoffs, what else is that piece of **** peripheral good for?
There is potential, lots of it, from the smallest thing to big ones, but the question is, will the product be able to do it?
No, i don´t thing so, not at least for the 1st year, and not with tons for updates to it.

One of the first things Kinect needs to do is to have one hell of a mic, so it can hear whispers.
The whispers part is, imo, very important, that is, if MS wants the voice commands to be usable, because, not only will many people find it weird to be talking at full voice to a TV screen; imagine someone playing at night, with people sleeping in the next room, and all of a sudden you have to shout....
Second, in every game, the character you are controlling have to do everything you do in real life; if you sit, he sits; if you jump, he jumps; if you scratch your butt.......you get the picture.
That is because the all controller-free gaming doesn´t make much sense, that is not what is important in Kinect; the way better slogan would be: YOU ARE THE GAME or GET INSIDE THE GAME or YOU ARE THE CHARACTER.
For example, take a shooter.
You go to a table where a lot of guns are, and the character automatically picks them up.
He puts the assault rifle and put it on his back, but all the other weapons are nowhere to be seen.
When you press a button, you take out your weapons.
Now imagine this:

A third person shooter.
You go to a table where the weapons are.
Insted of picking them up automatically, you have to reach you arm and pick them, not only that, but you have to put them on you, which means that you have to make the movement of putting the pistol on the holdster.
If you put it in the back of your pants, the character will put the pistol there, if you put it on your boot, the character will do it also and so on.
When you need to fire the weapons, insted of pressing a button, you have to reach for where the weapon is and take it out.
Imagine the kind of immersion it would have, you would quickily forget that you are not holding anything, because you are making the movements you see on screen.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I´ll get back when i have the time

Isildur´s Heir

09-09-2010, 08:48 AM

Isildur´s Heir

09-09-2010, 08:49 AM

Fading

09-09-2010, 07:32 PM

I'm not saying I disagree, there is potential, I just don't see it's uses in more traditional games. Such as an FPS or third person shooter, how do you pull the trigger? Do you pretend to hold an invisible gun, and squeeze an invisible trigger? I'm not sure how that's more immersive than holding an actual plastic lightgun. Or walking, if it follows you exactly, what happens when you walk to the edge of the screen? Is it that you jog in place like it currently does, and it follows the direction you are pointed towards? Because, to me, the current way that works with Kinect looks less fun, and much more hassle. Same with jumping.

IMO, and like I just said this is just my opinion, virtual reality only works in a small amount of settings. I could see Kinect working for slower paced MMO's where jumping is limited, and it can mimic the swing of your sword (or an Oblivion single player setting). I however don't see it working for something like Uncharted where you're doing flips, climbing, and shooting like that. I think Kinect could work well for social games as well, like where you walk around something like the Sims and socialize with others. However there are situations that still basically require buttons, and actually feel more immersive with something physical in your hand. Plus I see gaming being far less relaxing and enjoyable if you have to rearrange your room to perfectly fit a game setting, and physically sit and stand everytime you want to sit or stand, have to jump constantly on rocky roads while jogging in place to just move forward.

I dunno, I just think we're not ready to move to total button and controllerless gaming yet. Maybe the virtual reality we dreamed of in the early 90's was more flawed than we thought. Maybe something like that will only truly work in a Star Trek holodeck type setting. However I'm not seeing Kinect being able to do too much to make gaming better as a whole that you can't do already with physical controllers. Take your, pick a gun up, make a motion to put it in a holster. With Move (just using it as a physical example) the Sports Champion has just that, you move your hand to your back where your arrow is, squeeze the trigger like you were grabbing the arrow, move it in front of you in conjunction with your other arm and pull back, and shoot. With Kinect in that situation you'd lack that feel of actually holding something mimicking the bow and arrow, and when you move your hand to your back out of the camera's view Kinect has to make a guess of what you're doing, where Move will still give info on your hands movement despite not being in the PS Eye's view.

I think Kinect has potential, and for what it does well, to those who want that (handless navigation, etc.) it will be a worthwhile purchase. I just don't think it has much potential in it's current form in the way of pure shooting, flipping around, climbing, explosions, platforming style game. It very well could end up being a first step towards something like a holodeck. Same way Sony's pushing of 3D TV's could be a first step towards the visuals in a holodeck. However I don't think either in their current form add much in a meaningful way to gaming this generation.

Isildur´s Heir

09-09-2010, 08:43 PM

I totally agree that, in the current form, Kinect can´t do s**t, it´s nothing more than a glorified paperweight, but like you said and me before, it has an amazing potential.
And your right, and i forgot to mention it, the easier the thing is, the more dificult it is to make with Kinect.
To run or walk is extremely dificult.
It´s doable, and i have an idea how, but i believe that many people would not like it.
As for flipping or flying kicks, yeah, Kinect can´t do that, but neither can Move or the Wii for that matter.
Imagine God of War with Move...that would be horrible, how the hell would you the combos?
The same goes to fighting games, and i mean like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, not simplified ones like the one from Ubisoft for Kinect or The Fights for Move.

As for "Kinect vs Move"....
There are many things that you can do in both, that´s a given, but, imo, the thing that the other can´t do is both a blessing and a curse.
With Kinect you are not holding anything, which for many is it´s biggest fail.
As for Move (and the Wii, for that matter), you are holding something, which makes it much less natural.
Take Street Fighter as an example.
With both Move and Kinect, you would be able to do the Ryu Hadouken move, but, imo, it would be much better with Kinect.
Why?
Because it´s much more natural, like Ryu you would do the attack without holding anything.
Another example, this one of a Move game, The Fights.
With Kinect you can do every attack that you do with Move, but, there is one thing Move can´t do...to open your hands.
For instance, with both products, you can do a movement to block you opponent´s attack, but with Kinect you can open your hand and grab him, pulling him down, poke his eyes (ok, you can´t because Kinect can´t do fingers), etc...

Of both products, at the moment of release, Move is better, but, imo, Kinect has much more potential.

GhostPoet

09-21-2010, 02:23 PM

It's a good device for families and little kids...but not really beyond that. You can't play FPS's with it. RPG's would be a pain and sports games (like football or wrestling) would be absolutely horrible.

KALEL114

10-05-2010, 09:49 AM

The manual has leaked.

Did you know two people playing Kinect need to stand 8 feet from the camera? Did you know Kinect needs to be placed 2-6 feet high to work? Did you know that you don’t need a Kinect power pack if you own a 360 Slim?
You do now.

VG247 has received photographs of the entire Kinect manual, revealing final, consumer-facing information on setting up and using the motion camera.
The required play distances are confirmed in the document: “The sensor can see you when you are approximately 6 feet (2 meters) from the sensor. For two people, you should play approximately 8 feet (2.5 meters) from the sensor.”
The manual also provides height information for placing: “For the best play space and sensor performance, place your sensor between 2 and 6 feet (0.6 and 2 meters) high, the closer to the low or high limit the better.”
You’re also warned that you should “not put the sensor on your console.”
The peripheral’s manual confirms that an external power pack needs to be used unless you own a Slim.
“For Xbox 360 S consoles, power is supplied by the console. For original Xbox 360 consoles, you’ll need to connect the sensor to a standard wall outlet.”
If you own a Slim, the camera’s simply plugged into the AUX input.
Kinect comes with a software disc which needs to be installed for it to work. We’re going to assume this is included in the upcoming 360 dashboard update.
“Troubleshooting”
There’s a troubleshooting section at the back of the manual, which tells you how to fix stuff if it all goes wrong.
If the camera can’t see you, you should “turn on lights to brighten the play space,” “try wearing different colored clothing that contrasts with the background of your play space,” and “prevent lights, including sunlight, from shining directly on the sensor.”
You’re also warned to make sure the system is “well-ventilated.”
Check out the images below. There’s a page missing here which detailed how to install the software; the photo was really blurred.
Kinect launches in the US on November 4 and the UK on November 10.

Pics at the jump.

http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/05/entire-kinect-manual-photographed-play-distances-power-details-more/

Havok83

10-05-2010, 10:09 AM

the bit about not needing a power pack if you own a 360 S, thats not new info. Thats why those 360s were shipped with the title Kinect Ready on them

Benstamania

10-06-2010, 10:13 AM

I knew about that power pack thing... Mainly because you can preorder the cord now at GameStop.

....And it's 50 freaking bucks, for a cord! The Kinect TV stand to mount it on top of your TV is 30 bucks. So if I want to get a Kinect I'll have to spend 230 bucks (before taxes) and that's only if a game comes with it...

Havok83

10-06-2010, 10:22 AM

50? Dang thats just wrong. With any luck, you can use a 3rd party one for it. Maybe monoprice will have for those that want Kinect

Cth

10-07-2010, 09:43 AM

According to this:
http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Kinect-for-Xbox-360/product/C737B081

The Kinect comes bundled with the power cord.

And you don't NEED a tv mount, but it could come in handy for those with less space to work with (I think I remember some review mention it can cut down distance needed by a foot or two)

Benstamania

10-07-2010, 10:01 AM

My speakers are in front of my TV.... the mic is on the back of Kinect...so, unless I want the mic picking up my TV speakers I'll need the stand.

As for the cable, I think that might be the cable that goes from the Kinect to the new slim 360s. You need a completely different cable for the current models which is the one that doesn't come with Kinect.

I may be wrong. I should send Major Nelson a Tweet... Not like he'll get back to me. :p

KALEL114

10-07-2010, 11:01 AM

I think you are thinking about the extension cable.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=78197

You should get everything you need to play Kinect out of the box.

Benstamania

10-07-2010, 11:46 AM

Ah, well that's good then. I wasn't even aware that it came with a game. I THOUGHT it did but wasn't 100% sure.

Grievous

10-10-2010, 11:06 AM

I have stated it before and I will state it again. My house is not made for Kinect because for one thing if I jump the things around me are going to jar because of the kind of floor I have, second I don't have the space in front of my tv to use Kinect. I love Xbox but I would be lying if I said I did not want Kinect to fail badly in the market.

Timstuff

10-11-2010, 02:34 AM

Does an interface with no controller make those stupid 3rd-party peripherals even more useless? You betcha. Ladies and gents, I present the Kinect Boat.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2875/gameboat.jpg

http://kotaku.com/5658883/kinect-does-not-need-this-no-sir-it-does-not

No, your eyes do not decieve you-- that is a 100% non-functional inflatable raft that you stand in while playing the Kinect Adventures raft mini-game. What will the wonderful world of third party plastic churn out next, I wonder?

Parker Wayne

10-11-2010, 02:54 AM

Parker Wayne

10-11-2010, 03:10 AM

To be honest, I'm more intrigued with Kinect's potential for PC's than what it can do with the Xbox.

Havok83

10-11-2010, 07:20 AM

They announced it for PC and then nothing. Im not even sure if they still will release it on that

I was at Gamestop yesterday and 2 girls about 12 saw Kinect One girl said "I'm getting that" and the other replied "You're so lucky. I want that" The thing will sell especially with kids asking their parents for it come Christmas time. Even if it does suck, what attracts people to it initially is that its different and not whats seen in the market. Kids want the newest thing that no one else has and thats where Kinect stands out. I see no value in it for the typical gamer like myself bc that setup cant be easily implemented into the hardcore games I play. But if MS works on perfecting and making quality games for it aimed at the children and mom crowd then I dont see it being a complete failure

Timstuff

10-12-2010, 03:15 AM

Fading

10-12-2010, 07:25 AM

Microsoft seems to have done the impossible-- they've managed to make the market forget that "controller free gaming" has been around since the PS2.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7118/eyetoy.jpg

I'm not sure if this demonstrates how effective agressive marketing can be, or how short the public's memory is. Then again, the Wii was a big hit despite the fact that Nintendo already did waggle-based gaming on the NES with the Power Glove. From what I've seen I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that Kinect offers an improvement over the Eyetoy on par with going from the Power Glove to the Wii (in practice, I'm not sure if there will be much difference at all), but in the eyes of the public they already believe that playing games with a camera is a brand new breakthrough that has never been done before.

You saying that reminded me of this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780bIG6TXFk

Even tho the overall input method is different, they both had the $150, "you are the controller" deal going. The video game world has an odd way of something coming in and getting forgotten, and then someone reinventing it years down the road and making it successful. Heh, Nintendo I think is doing that with itself, with it's failed Virtua Boy, and following down that 3D path with the most likely to be successful 3DS.

Isildur´s Heir

10-30-2010, 02:23 PM

Seems that Microsoft is really going foward to the all natural user interface, which, imo, is a great decision as it is the future (no, not just in gaming).
Microsoft just bought Canesta.

The big news for the day comes in the form of Canesta coming to terms of agreement where their products, software, chip designs and intellectual properties are being acquired by Microsoft. The acquisition spells a step forward in the evolution of user interfaces, as Canesta focuses on elevating productivity for natural user interfaces (NUI), much in the same way that Kinect allows for controller-free gaming.

Jim Spare, Canesta president and CEO of Canesta commented about the new acquisition, saying…

“This is very exciting news for the industry. There is little question that within the next decade we will see natural user interfaces become common for input across all devices. With Microsoft’s breadth of scope from enterprise to consumer products, market presence, and commitment to NUI, we are confident that our technology will see wide adoption across many applications that embody the full potential of the technology.”

The technology that Microsoft plans to employ in the near future isn’t just a portico of technological terms; Canesta is actually all about cutting edge software, firmware and hardware technology that will make natural user interfacing both easier, more streamlined and convenient enough to make it a viable commercial alternative to the standard GUIs in today’s generation of technology. In other words, the next Windows or Xbox gaming console could be entirely focused on NUI tech that makes interactivity both fluent and more user-friendly.

The real question, however, is how will this affect Kinect in the long term and will Microsoft pull an Xbox 1 with Kinect if they see an opportunity to break through with a new form of interactivity now that they have Canesta’s tech in their services?

Regardless, the acquisition definitely spells good news for technocrats and sci-fi geeks who really want to do some day-in and day-out Minority Report hand-ballet. We’ll definitely keep you posted on what comes of it. For more information on Canesta and their products, be sure to visit the Official Website.

I just would like to Microsoft devote all that energy to games too and buy some freaking devs, but i see it as a good decision for the company

Fading

10-30-2010, 09:57 PM

Seems that Microsoft is really going foward to the all natural user interface, which, imo, is a great decision as it is the future (no, not just in gaming).
Microsoft just bought Canesta.

I just would like to Microsoft devote all that energy to games too and buy some freaking devs, but i see it as a good decision for the company

I think they're far too deep in their current direction to switch gears. As great as it'd be for them to spend the same cash to buy game developers to make more exclusives for the 360 would be, I think Microsoft has decided to take an entirely different approach. This all could pay off, not knocking the approach, and Canesta helping develop a better UI could further improve a lot of Xbox related things like Live itself. It's just that on the other hand they spent over 500 million on marketing Kinect alone, not counting R&D, and manufacturing costs. I think the Xbox brand will carry on fine if Kinect fails, but they've sunk in probably 1 billion dollars into it already, and I'd imagine Microsoft is going to make it work no matter what, or they may have some very unhappy investors.

Isildur´s Heir

10-31-2010, 05:57 PM

Like i said, to buy Canesta was a great decision; the all natural user interface is the future in everything tech related, so, it will be big for the company´s future...and they sure need it.
The big question is, when they start to actually use it, will it be too late?
Microsoft is a dying brand, this decade was all about bad decisions, to the point of being surpassed by Apple and Google (the last one in search engine and mobile OS).
A couple of more years and they might be the new IBM.

Steve Ballmer, Don Mattrick and Phil Spencer should resign as they are awful in what they do.
Ballmer is the one to blame as he is the CEO if the company.
Mattrick is light years behind Peter Moore in doing the same job.
Phil Spencer is totally out of touch of what gaming is and gamers want, as head of Microsoft Game Studios, he is pathetic.

Timstuff

11-01-2010, 01:20 PM

Thanks to Sony's muck ups with the PS3 launch in 2006, Microsoft was in a perfect position to nail down second place. And yet, somehow, they are still slipping into third place, and it could potentially happen as soon as the end of the year. And how do they respond to this? Will it be by strengthening their core with more blockbuster games, and perhaps FINALLY making online play and other features permanently available to Xbox Live silver members? Nope. They are making a next-generation version of the Eyetoy, and raising the rate for Xbox Live. They are focusing on the casual gamer, and making hard core players pay more for what they have already been given. They are more interested in attracting Wii players than they are in keeping their current users from defecting to the PS3, and thus far it's hurting them. In one year the 360's lead over the PS3 has essentially been cut in half, and at the rate things are going, by this time next year the 360 will be in last place.

Microsoft SERIOUSLY needs to shape up. One big game every 2 years that sells 10 million copies is not enough.

Soapy

11-01-2010, 01:46 PM

Fading

11-01-2010, 11:06 PM

I agree Kinect will be a big seller, but I'm not sure it'll be as big as a lot of internet chat is making it out to be. It's complicated as Microsoft is such a mixed bag around the world. The PS3's sales surge, and Move being more or less a sales success has to do with Sony and Playstation's world profile. The 360 still beats the PS3 in the US, but loses to it everywhere else, which is causing the PS3 to beat the 360 by enough that it's closed the gap from 5 million to 2.9 million in, what, half a year? The US may be the most powerful gaming market, but not as much as the rest of the world combined.

I think, much like the 360, Kinect will see strong US sales. I think they'll start big, in the millions, and die down a bit, but stay steady and show legs for atleast a year. It's the rest of the world I see Kinect struggling in. If only the US is buying it, and Europe (mainly the UK) to a much less extent, Kinect could lose half of it's potential sales. With Kinect's voice recognition being locked in most of the world, and many countries paying much more than we are in the US for it, you're going to see areas that Microsoft has trouble selling to already being even more reluctant to buy.

As for Oprah, I do think the half a billion advertising onslaught will have an impact. However I think it'll be an impact in the US where Kinect is already a guaranteed seller, and also believe you can't always force hype. I'm not going to give anecdotal evidence, or act like I know something no one else does, it's all just my guessing. I just think the Wii hit some unholy nerve with mainstream audiences, and as seen by slowing Wii sales, that same audience isn't buying it as much anymore. The Wii was at the right place at the right time, and hit the right casual nerve. Kinect is coming in at the tail end of this, after Wii sales have slowed, at a high price, chasing after that same crowd that's not buying Wii's like they used to, and not buying many third party Wii games in the first place.

Kinect very well could see a 3.5 million launch that tops Move's 2.5 launch month, and maybe do another 1.5 million before year's end to reach 5 million. I don't think however it'll hit Microsoft's 8 million target. Nor do I think either it or Move will even get more than a 30% attach rate compared to the consoles they are on totals sold. I said earlier that I thought they'd both hit 10 million total, with Kinect having more of an explosive start and dying quicker, and Move being a slow starter but having better legs. However Move has surprised me, so I know I could very well be wrong. Maybe both will reach even 20 million. I just think the internet has far too high of expectations for Kinect sales, and much of the Move followings was wrong on both sides with the pro-Mover's putting it's sales too high, and the anti-Move's putting it's sales way too low. I think at the very least both Sony and Microsoft will see a profit on both products, I just don't think either is the next Wii, nor will see Wii like sales at it's high points.

ProjectPat2280

11-01-2010, 11:18 PM

and at the rate things are going, by this time next year the 360 will be in last place.

.

So?

Is my xbox going to stop working once MS falls to third place?

Fading

11-01-2010, 11:26 PM

Um, so? Besides the stock holders, who the hell cares? The xbox isnt going any where, regardless if it falls to last place. Playstation has been in
''last place" this entire generation and is a great system, while on the other hand the Wii sells out the ass and imo, is a piece of junk. God i hope we get a one console generation soon. Fanboy arguments are so damn annoying.

I agree about fanboy arguments being annoying (not saying anyone on here is making one, just speaking in general), but no way in hell would I ever want a one console generation lol. Competition breeds stronger products, if only Nintendo survived the SNES/Genesis war and no one ever competed against them, I probably would have dropped gaming years ago...or stuck with computer only gaming.

Also agreeing that it doesn't matter who's in what place. PS3 was in last place this entire time, and still is putting out some amazing content. I'm a very happy PS3 owner, to the point that it's my favorite gaming generation, even despite the lack of numerous good RPG's like we've seen in previous generations. My interesting mainly pertains to, A.) just having good discussions about a passtime I enjoy on a message board whose main purpose is talking about things we all enjoy lol, and B.) because a healthy Sony means a continued influx of good games for my PS3. Just like a healthy Nintendo means a good stream of games for my DS and a potential purchase of a future Nintendo console. Just like a healthy Microsoft means my friends who own 360's will be happy with their purchase, and Microsoft can continue to challenge Sony to make a better product. All 3 being healthy is good for all gamers, even if we don't like all systems equally.

I just happen to not be a Kinect fan, nor think it'll be the second coming like it's been hailed by by many since it's unveiling (again, just look at the title of the thread). However it has nothing to do with wanting it to do bad, nor anything against the 360 itself. We're just all having good discussion, I wouldn't get too worked up one way or the other.

ProjectPat2280

11-01-2010, 11:31 PM

I agree about fanboy arguments being annoying, but no way in hell would I ever want a one console generation lol. Competition breeds stronger products, if only Nintendo survived the SNES/Genesis war and no one ever competed against them, I probably would have dropped gaming years ago...or stuck with computer only gaming.

Also agreeing that it doesn't matter who's in what place. PS3 was in last place this entire time, and still is putting out some amazing content. I'm a very happy PS3 owner, to the point that it's my favorite gaming generation, even despite the lack of numerous good RPG's like we've seen in previous generations. My interesting mainly pertains to, A.) just having good discussions about a passtime I enjoy on a message board whose main purpose is talking about things we all enjoy lol, and B.) because a healthy Sony means a continued influx of good games for my PS3. Just like a healthy Nintendo means a good stream of games for my DS and a potential purchase of a future Nintendo console. Just like a healthy Microsoft means my friends who own 360's will be happy with their purchase, and Microsoft can continue to challenge Sony to make a better product. All 3 being healthy is good for all gamers, even if we don't like all systems equally.

I just happen to not be a Kinect fan, nor think it'll be the second coming like it's been hailed by by many since it's unveiling (again, just look at the title of the thread). However it has nothing to do with wanting it to do bad, nor anything against the 360 itself. We're just all having good discussion, I wouldn't get too worked up one way or the other.

I dont see any of that changing, regardless of what "place" a system falls to. I havent seen ANYTHING worth playing on the Wii and its "leading the console race". Most of the games i play are multiplatform any way and thats not changing. I think i have 3 or 4 exclusives for each console and besides Uncharted, i couldnt care less if those exclusives disappeared. So i think the argument over which system finishes where has always been really stupid and its completely irrelevant and only creates stupid fanboy fights.

Kinect can come out and absolutely tank and force MS into the basement and i guarantee you nothing will really change. Gears of War will still come out to sell 4plus million copies. Call of Duty will still release on the 360 etc etc etc.

Fading

11-01-2010, 11:49 PM

I dont see any of that changing, regardless of what "place" a system falls to. I havent seen ANYTHING worth playing on the Wii and its "leading the console race". Most of the games i play are multiplatform any way and thats not changing. I think i have 3 or 4 exclusives for each console and besides Uncharted, i couldnt care less if those exclusives disappeared. So i think the argument over which system finishes where has always been really stupid and its completely irrelevant and only creates stupid fanboy fights.

Kinect can come out and absolutely tank and force MS into the basement and i guarantee you nothing will really change. Gears of War will still come out to sell 4plus million copies. Call of Duty will still release on the 360 etc etc etc.

I guess im getting burned out on the fanboy war. I work with two Sony fanboys and it wasnt that bad but now that our ASM has left the store(he was a MS fanboy) all i hear about is how great Sony is, its annoying.

You have it lucky, try working with someone obsessed with World of Warcraft :(. If I hadn't had played the game for awhile and understood some of what he was talking about, I would have went insane. I swear, it's ALL the guy talks about. He's not afraid to go into each...and every....little....minute detail of where he is in game, what gear he wants, number crunching damage, what his guild's up to. Lol, it's torture, I just happen to be (or try to be) a nice guy, so I just politely nod and listen, and occasionally try to change the topic to something actually interesting lol.

Benstamania

11-02-2010, 12:27 AM

I slightly favor my Xbox... but mostly for online gaming... which I honestly haven't done much of lately. I enjoy every system out there, Microsoft for the big online games and it's exclusives like Halo and Fable. Sony for the technology behind the machine and it's exclusives (as well as most single player games) and the Wii for nostalgia.

Timstuff

11-02-2010, 02:18 PM

The 360's place among the other two platforms really depends on how well Kinect takes off. It's been featured on Oprah and Ellen and all those other shows that housewives watch, the very same housewives that put the Wii in the position that it's in.

Based on everything I've seen, I would guess that Kinect will be a hot item this Xmas and that's it. Two years from now and you'll have forgotten this thing ever existed. However, and this is a BIG "however", you can't account for how the housewives and casuals will effect it's popularity.

Now, assuming for a second that they do grab onto it, I'm guessing it will be like the first couple of years of the Wii. The hardware will be a pretty big success, but the attach rate will be abysmal.

Pack-in software is a double edged sword. Like Wii-Sports, MS is pushing Kinect Adventures hard as the reason to buy Kinect. Unfortunately though, once customers buy it they might not see the point in buying more games, much like what happened with Wii. Lots of people were content just owning Wii for the Wii Sports pack-in disc, and many others only experimented with a few other titles at best. The same could potentially happen with Kinect. A housewife buys Kinect because the Kinect rafting game looks fun, but she is not into it enough that she would consider buying additional software.

Soapy

11-02-2010, 02:22 PM

Precisely.

Superhero 101

11-03-2010, 11:18 PM

IGN gave their review
http://www.ign.com/videos/2010/11/04/microsoft-kinect-video-review

BlackLantern

11-04-2010, 10:41 AM

so Microsoft had to release a statement that they will NOT be using Kinect to spy on you

http://kotaku.com/5681521/microsoft-says-kinect-wont-invade-your-privacy

Rocker22

11-04-2010, 11:12 AM

It's fun, it has a long way to go to be amazing. I'm looking forward to the future games.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 11:55 AM

My sister and I are going in on a Kinect. I'll post some impressions later once it's set up.

Blackman

11-04-2010, 12:09 PM

This seems fun for families, but I still am going to wait and see what they do with other games

Soapy

11-04-2010, 01:05 PM

Giant Bomb will be testing Kinect out live (http://www.giantbomb.com/chat/) all day.

Havok83

11-04-2010, 01:18 PM

the games are getting decent enough reviews so good for MS.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 01:21 PM

the games are getting decent enough reviews so good for MS.

I'm still not sure if I want to pick up a game or not. My sister wants that kinectanimals game but I am NOT buying that. Maybe Dance Central?

Havok83

11-04-2010, 01:41 PM

Dance Central is the only game that looks like someone who isnt over the age of 12 would enjoy. I cant see the rest holding much interest with someone thats serious about gaming

Benstamania

11-04-2010, 01:44 PM

Seems that while the games are good, the hardware itself at 150 bucks is a very hard sell.

Duh.

Kinect should have sold at around 80... if that.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 01:47 PM

Dance Central is the only game that looks like someone who isnt over the age of 12 would enjoy. I cant see the rest holding much interest with someone thats serious about gaming

Yea I'm not looking for anythin too "hardcore" but something that a lot of ppl can play, either when we have parties or when we take the Kinect home for the holidays

블라스

11-04-2010, 03:35 PM

gregtestagent

11-04-2010, 04:25 PM

my only current complaints with Kinect is that it really requires that it can see the floor, have good lighting, and be at least 6' away from you to register your movements correctly. I have it situated on light stand with in front of my flat screen; there's a couch right in its way so it can't see the floor but it can see every other angle. The rest of the couch is situated so that I must be right behind it for the sensor to detect my hand movement correctly and not glitch off screen.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 04:45 PM

My 2 cents and very personal opinion.

Sony and Microsoft, absolutely thinking about $$$, definitely rushed both of their idiotic motion-based products just to compete with the Wii.

For the most part, they just want to have a gimmick that allows them to say "Hey, I can do that too! Buy me instead!", but they're not thinking about the quality of the product.

Make no mistake...regardless of any "We're all about the hardcore gamer!" words they utter, it's clear that they're after the 100% casual crowd; you know, the one that's happy by just flailing their arms all over the place and seeing this action poorly reflected on the screen.

Expect much more of this kind of thinking in the following months/years.

I agree to an extent, but after my time spent with Kinect(and Move for that matter), i dont think they are gimmicks. They both work really well and have a LOT of upside. I think Kinect has more potential to be a revolutionary piece of hardware vs the Move and Wii tho.

Kinect is a very neat device. As of now, the options are limited to basically just scrolling around the Kinect Hub which only has like 4 options worth clicking on, but the device works really well, altho im SUPER pissed i cant use Kinect in Netflix(please let them add that feature in). The device was easily able to distinguish between my sister and myself. Scrolling from one menu to the other is just neat. Its VERY much like Minority Report. Being able to ditch a remote is always welcome. With my setup, i have a remote for the tv, the surround sound and my remote for the xbox, so being able to ditch that xbox remote while listening to LastFM is just cool. If i happen to be out of the Kinects line of site, well then i can just tell it i want it to skip to the next track, something the Move and Wii cannot do. But the Kinect can locate you even if you are off to the left or right of it. Our couch is situated to tleft of our TV and Kinect was still able to locate me. IGN mentioned this as well, but I wouldnt be the LEAST bit surprised to see that Bioware takes advantage of the microphone for the next Mass Effect title, theres some neat things that can be done with it. Like i said, there is some MAJOR upside to this piece of equipment, basically anything the Wii and Move can do, the Kinect can do as well. Ppl complain that you cant use Kinect for a hardcore game, but you very well could. Just combine the Kinect sensor with the standard game pad and you have everything you need.

Like i said, the potential for this device is damn near limitless. Now the question is, does Microsoft care? Do they care to implement Kinect into titles like halo, call of duty? Or do they just want to go the Wii route and just keep pushing out Wii Wii Dance Party Revolution 15?

블라스

11-04-2010, 04:52 PM

You put it way better than I did.
I've no doubt great things could be done with it, but will they?

BlackLantern

11-04-2010, 05:11 PM

I agree to an extent, but after my time spent with Kinect(and Move for that matter), i dont think they are gimmicks. They both work really well and have a LOT of upside. I think Kinect has more potential to be a revolutionary piece of hardware vs the Move and Wii tho.

Kinect is a very neat device. As of now, the options are limited to basically just scrolling around the Kinect Hub which only has like 4 options worth clicking on, but the device works really well, altho im SUPER pissed i cant use Kinect in Netflix(please let them add that feature in). The device was easily able to distinguish between my sister and myself. Scrolling from one menu to the other is just neat. Its VERY much like Minority Report. Being able to ditch a remote is always welcome. With my setup, i have a remote for the tv, the surround sound and my remote for the xbox, so being able to ditch that xbox remote while listening to LastFM is just cool. If i happen to be out of the Kinects line of site, well then i can just tell it i want it to skip to the next track, something the Move and Wii cannot do. But the Kinect can locate you even if you are off to the left or right of it. Our couch is situated to tleft of our TV and Kinect was still able to locate me. IGN mentioned this as well, but I wouldnt be the LEAST bit surprised to see that Bioware takes advantage of the microphone for the next Mass Effect title, theres some neat things that can be done with it. Like i said, there is some MAJOR upside to this piece of equipment, basically anything the Wii and Move can do, the Kinect can do as well. Ppl complain that you cant use Kinect for a hardcore game, but you very well could. Just combine the Kinect sensor with the standard game pad and you have everything you need.

Like i said, the potential for this device is damn near limitless. Now the question is, does Microsoft care? Do they care to implement Kinect into titles like halo, call of duty? Or do they just want to go the Wii route and just keep pushing out Wii Wii Dance Party Revolution 15?

**** and No.....leave it to the silly party games and it can be a fun little diversion

keep it away from serious gaming

Isildur´s Heir

11-04-2010, 06:08 PM

I´m surprissed, i really am, the reviews are better than i thought (i mean the games, not the peripheral).
And it will be a sucess, i can see it now.
Why?
Because of MS biggest asset, their checkbook; and, in turn...the morons, or if you want, weak minded people.
I don´t want to offend anyone that bought Kinect (or is thinking about it) as there are always exceptions, but that´s exactly the target audience of Kinect (of course, i don´t mean kids that want one).
MS Modus operandi is the buy everything up (hence their checkbook being their biggest asset), from exclusives to timely exclusives, to timely DLC to...people´s affection.
Oprah, Ellen, Time Square, Justin Bieber....that´s exactly that, to buy consumer´s "love", and they know that sucess sells for the weak minded (if something is a sucess, i want one).
They even go to the ridiculous of giving prizes to the crowd lining up in Time Square; or giving free copies of Kinect Sports, Kinect Joy Ride and one-year subscription to Xbox Live Gold for the first 3,000 Kinect buyers....who said people don´t have a price?
Remember Tim Burton´s Batman, the Joker´s parade; this is the same thing, only MS is not the Joker.

I said it once and i say it again, of all motion controls, Kinect is the best...at least, the one with the biggest potential.
Will it live up to it?
Personally, i doubt it...i really doubt that Microsoft cares enough, so, this is as good as it gets.
Kinect is made with a specific target audience in mind and that audience just wants to jump around, so, i don´t see MS trying to make it more than it is, the E3 showed exactly what Kinect would be, and quality was not their main goal, money is.
Maybe in the next gen, when Kinect 2.0 gets released we will see a better product

With the all buy of Canesta, i see, in years, MS looking at the future, which is great for the company, but, until they get rid of the bad seeds, i really see no future for the company.
Ballmer, Mattrick and Phil Spencer need to go...fast.

Back to Kinect.
The reviews are fairly good, not the best, but good nontheless, and with PS Move starting to have bad reviews on games (The Fights, a game that should have been perfect, as awful reviews), i see it selling pretty well.

Now, if you ask me, what would i buy between PS Move and Kinect, i would say Kinect, in a heartbeat.
First i already have a Wii (it might be better, but at this point is nothing more than a glorified Wii), second, Kinect look better.
Even so, i will probably get the PS Move as i´m planing on buying a PS3 at the end of the month, and there is a good chance i´ll buy the Move bundle (the price is not that big of a diference).

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 06:49 PM

**** and No.....leave it to the silly party games and it can be a fun little diversion

keep it away from serious gaming

Thats a pretty naive way of thinking. We've seen how the Wii type controller can make some games better(Resident Evil 4), there are ways they could implement Kinect to better an experience. Just because Kinect can work without a controller, doesnt mean it has to. MS has stated there are games that will come out that will use both. Kinect could be used like TrackIR for head tracking(which for flight sims or racing titles is awesome). Theres a lot of potential here. The only question is will they capitalize on it.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 06:56 PM

Because of MS biggest asset, their checkbook; and, in turn...the morons, or if you want, weak minded people.
I don´t want to offend anyone that bought Kinect (or is thinking about it) as there are always exceptions, but that´s exactly the target audience of Kinect (of course, i don´t mean kids that want one).

So, minus the people that just think Kinect is a neat idea, minus the kids who want to get off the couch and jump around while playing games and minus the families that want a gaming device that is fairly simple to use, those that buy Kinect are morons? Just exactly who does that leave? It's like you are trying to be condescending, but you aren't sure you want to offend anybody.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 06:59 PM

You put it way better than I did.
I've no doubt great things could be done with it, but will they?

I think it'll come down to sales. If Kinect sells the way MS is projecting, then i think future support for the title is a given. However, if the sales fall short or they deem Kinect to not be as big an item as anticipated, then i think they could end up pulling back that support. Hopefully they see the potential regardless. Id also assume it'll be up to the individual developers on rather or not they implement Kinect functionality.

StrainedEyes

11-04-2010, 07:46 PM

Thats a pretty naive way of thinking. We've seen how the Wii type controller can make some games better(Resident Evil 4), there are ways they could implement Kinect to better an experience. Just because Kinect can work without a controller, doesnt mean it has to. MS has stated there are games that will come out that will use both. Kinect could be used like TrackIR for head tracking(which for flight sims or racing titles is awesome). Theres a lot of potential here. The only question is will they capitalize on it.

What ways? Aside from using it to navigate the in-game menus (which sounds so silly to me) and head tracking, what are these limitless possibilities you see with the thing?

I have yet to hear a good way that Kinect could be implemented into a game like Halo or Gears.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 09:40 PM

What ways? Aside from using it to navigate the in-game menus (which sounds so silly to me) and head tracking, what are these limitless possibilities you see with the thing?

I have yet to hear a good way that Kinect could be implemented into a game like Halo or Gears.

I think head tracking would be a great addition to any FPS. Its why TrackIR is popular amongst the PC crowd, it can create a deeper level of authenticity. Kinect could be used to do the same thing. Voice commands could also be implemented in to some titles, IGN mentioned the Mass Effect series. It's just up to the devs to create an experience with the device. Basically anything that is neat about the Wii or Move, can be done with Kinect and then some. Not saying that means everyone needs to run and out buy the device. Some will always want to just lay on their couch and press buttons.

Havok83

11-04-2010, 09:46 PM

Voice command can be implemented already with a headset. Endwar was a game already released built completely around that

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 09:58 PM

Voice command can be implemented already with a headset. Endwar was a game already released built completely around that

Did i say voice inputs were only available with Kinect? Im pretty sure i didnt. As IGN pointed out, thats one of the things it could bring to titles. Most of the stuff Kinect does can be found in other devices, just not in the single package like Kinect. Im not saying Kinect will take over gaming, but those who keep knocking it either because they are Sony fans or because they just dont want anything messing with their control pads just need to pipe down for a bit or at least until the actually try it out. The general opinion, from those who have actually used the system(not just read and watched previews) seems to be that there is some room for development with the device. It'll be interesting to see what comes in the near future imo.

Havok83

11-04-2010, 10:04 PM

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 10:08 PM

Im just saying thats not a unique feature that it brings to the table. The head tracking sets it apart and can offer an incentive to purchase. The voice commands? Thats something gamers can already do with the equipment they already own

Kinect can perform that tho, which is why I and sites like IGN brought it up.

IGN said it best:

It isn't that the technology is particularly revolutionary -- in fact, most of the components can be found in existing products – it is how they've been implemented.

Microsoft has paired an RGB VGA camera with a resolution of 640 x 480, a depth sensor of the same resolution, and a multi-array microphone into a single peripheral that can gauge distance and motion, digitally map a 3D space, and even visually recognize players and accept voice commands; and it does it all in real time.

StrainedEyes

11-04-2010, 10:17 PM

I think head tracking would be a great addition to any FPS. Its why TrackIR is popular amongst the PC crowd, it can create a deeper level of authenticity. Kinect could be used to do the same thing. Voice commands could also be implemented in to some titles, IGN mentioned the Mass Effect series. It's just up to the devs to create an experience with the device. Basically anything that is neat about the Wii or Move, can be done with Kinect and then some. Not saying that means everyone needs to run and out buy the device. Some will always want to just lay on their couch and press buttons.

So, you're looking for the basically functionality of the Konami Laser Scope?
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg124/Geo7877/thumb.jpg

I just can't think of an experience that I could have that would sell me on Kinect.

I'm watching the Giant Bomb coverage of Kinect from earlier today and so far I see things that I'd try and do for an hour or so, but I don't see anything that's worth the 150+ dollar investment. Though, it was pretty funny when Jeff lifted his hand just out of Kinect's view and the avatar went insane.

ProjectPat2280

11-04-2010, 11:25 PM

So, you're looking for the basically functionality of the Konami Laser Scope?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5610anuSEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ

I just can't think of an experience that I could have that would sell me on Kinect.

So dont get one. Problem solved.

StrainedEyes

11-04-2010, 11:43 PM

So dont get one. Problem solved.

I feel the same way with the Wii. There isnt anything on that console that interests me, so i don't own one, nor do i spend time in that section telling ppl why i dont plan on owning one.

"Xbox, chill pill."

It will be interesting to see the second wave of Kinect and Move games, because both first waves were a lot of proof of concept minigame shovel-ware.

Also, if Kinect can get a Super Mario Galaxy quality game then I will be both surprised and interested.

Soapy

11-04-2010, 11:48 PM

Though, it was pretty funny when Jeff lifted his hand just out of Kinect's view and the avatar went insane.

Oh god, I know. Though it wasn't as funny as these abominations (http://www.giantbomb.com/the-living-statues-of-kinect-adventures/17-3459/). I was crying when that happened. :funny:

Anyway, whenever I see avatars spazzing out it really makes me cringe. Limbs popping in directions they totally shouldn't be. Also, I'm really surprised that Microsoft is putting Kinect out while it's still so janky.

Well...now that I think about it, it shouldn't come as a surprise. You know. What with the whole 50% 360 failure rate and whatnot.

StrainedEyes

11-05-2010, 02:10 AM

Oh god, I know. Though it wasn't as funny as these abominations (http://www.giantbomb.com/the-living-statues-of-kinect-adventures/17-3459/). I was crying when that happened. :funny:

Anyway, whenever I see avatars spazzing out it really makes me cringe. Limbs popping in directions they totally shouldn't be. Also, I'm really surprised that Microsoft is putting Kinect out while it's still so janky.

Well...now that I think about it, it shouldn't come as a surprise. You know. What with the whole 50% 360 failure rate and whatnot.

Motion Sports is horrible!

"I want to marry this guy!" :hehe:

"Oh please, alright let me reintroduce you two, Rider meet horse, horse meet rider" every time Ryan failed was also fantastic and insane.

Fading

11-05-2010, 04:00 AM

Double Post.

Fading

11-05-2010, 04:02 AM

Did i say voice inputs were only available with Kinect? Im pretty sure i didnt.

Heh, not to be nitpicky but you kinda did.

If i happen to be out of the Kinects line of site, well then i can just tell it i want it to skip to the next track, something the Move and Wii cannot do.

I get what you're saying, but the Playstation Eye does have a built in microphone. Much like Sony stating headtracking could be put in (or maybe has already, not sure) with a firmware update, I'm sure voice command menu's could be too. I mean even PS2 games had voice command's using headsets. As for the Wii, just let the game programmers add in commands with a headset or Wii microphone.

As for sales, I stick by what I was saying earlier. I think Kinect's a guaranteed hit in the US, but around the world is where it will be interesting. I honestly don't think it has a chance of topping Wii sales (talking Kinect and Kinect related things compared to Wii, not 360+Kinect as Wii's sales have occasionally dipped to last place more recently). I think the real question is if Kinect's strong US and UK sales will make it a huge success. Move did well, 2.5 million it's first month (which I was guessing 1.5 million tops first month, so surprised me) however that was with worldwide sales boosting it. In the US it was around 1 million, and it was Europe as a whole that put in 1.5 million extra (still not sure how well it did in Japan or anywhere else yet).

Kinect will undoubtedly top Move in the US (by a huge margin), and probably the UK as well, it's just the rest of Europe, and the world for that matter that's the huge ??. Will low sales there negate huge US and UK numbers? Will Kinect have legs? At the very least I think Kinect will turn a profit, as to whether it's the next Wii (which I highly doubt it or Move will be) will probably be something we'll have to wait until a half a year has passed to really have the answer.

PS. Above any of this tho, it's what you want out of it. ProjectPat seems to like it, so gratz and hope you enjoy it. Same way as RDR isn't for everyone, I love it. In the same way that I'm honestly not seeing how Kinect can improve gameplay past what we already have, others will and will see it as a great purchase. So more power to anyone who buys it and enjoys it.

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 08:44 AM

Heh, not to be nitpicky but you kinda did.

No, i kinda didnt. Go back and re-read what i wrote. In no way, did i say Kinect was the only device that could do that. I stated its ONE thing it could do to add to a "hardcore" game.

I get what you're saying, but the Playstation Eye does have a built in microphone. Much like Sony stating headtracking could be put in (or maybe has already, not sure) with a firmware update, I'm sure voice command menu's could be too. I mean even PS2 games had voice command's using headsets. As for the Wii, just let the game programmers add in commands with a headset or Wii microphone.

Not to this level tho. This is NOT a playstation eye. That's just an argument disgruntled fanboys are using. The PS Eye cant track the amt of data that the Kinect can. Period.

PS. Above any of this tho, it's what you want out of it. ProjectPat seems to like it, so gratz and hope you enjoy it. Same way as RDR isn't for everyone, I love it. In the same way that I'm honestly not seeing how Kinect can improve gameplay past what we already have, others will and will see it as a great purchase. So more power to anyone who buys it and enjoys it.

Eh, im not ready to pronounce it a success yet. I think thered potential tho. I also wouldnt have bought it had my sister of not floated most of the cost. The only game iv played for it is that adventures game which is pretty simple stuff. Id like to play Dance Central, from what iv heard that showcases the device better than anything else.

Donut

11-05-2010, 09:50 AM

BlackLantern

11-05-2010, 09:52 AM

its a sign, bring it back to the store and never speak of Kinect again

Donut

11-05-2010, 10:10 AM

its a sign, bring it back to the store and never speak of Kinect again

Connecting the new 360 Model online has nothing to do with Kinect :o

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 10:12 AM

So I got Kinect with the 4 Gig Slim Bundle & this 360 is refusing to connect online with Wireless. Has anyone had any trouble like this ? I have tried using a WPA Key connecting the 360 to a Network & yes I am entering the right numbers as this is a nothing but number code & tried to connect it online from a Lap Top & Wire where the Lap Top is connected just fine through Wireless & the same WPA Key in question. I have no problems getting the original 360 Models online through the Lap Top

Odd. I havent heard of that problem yet. Maybe the wi-fi within that model of 360 is just faulty. You can return it to where ever you bought it tho.

On a side note. Did you get any titles for Kinect? If so which ones and what do you think of them?

BlackLantern

11-05-2010, 10:13 AM

Connecting the new 360 Model online has nothing to do with Kinect :o

oh it does

KONSPIRAZEE!!!!

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 10:16 AM

oh it does

KONSPIRAZEE!!!!

lol.

Youre crazy man. Youre crazy. I like you, but, youre crazy.

Donut

11-05-2010, 10:25 AM

lol.

Youre crazy man. Youre crazy. I like you, but, youre crazy.

I guess he is a Sony fan boy

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 10:31 AM

I guess he is a Sony fan boy

Haha, nah Black Lantern is cool. I was quoting a line from Old School.

Donut

11-05-2010, 10:31 AM

Haha, nah Black Lantern is cool. I was quoting a line from Old School.

Well he is still talking & acting like one :o

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 10:32 AM

Well he is still talking & acting like one :o

Haha, he's just not a motion control type of guy. Iv played Xbox Live games with him before. Theres better examples of bias in this thread thats not coming from him.

BlackLantern

11-05-2010, 10:44 AM

not a Sony person at all...just find motion control very shallow and gimmicky

Benstamania

11-05-2010, 12:05 PM

Motion control just seems "been there, done that" IMHO. Seriously, the Wii was out for what? Three years? Then Sony and Microsoft jumps on the bandwagon.... next E3 Nintendo will be talking about their new home console that will bring us 3D without glasses, much like the 3DS has done only on a grander scale.

BlackLantern

11-05-2010, 12:10 PM

if I want to move and do something, I will go out for a run or go work out

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 12:34 PM

if I want to move and do something, I will go out for a run or go work out

But why not do both. You can have fun and do a workout. I hope Sean T, the trainer from the Insanity program puts out a Kinect game. Id love an actual game with the intensity of Insanity. But then again, i guess i could just do the Insanity workout again?

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 12:34 PM

But for those who have the Kinect, any games suggestions? Im thinking of maybe picking up that sports game, or dance central?

BlackLantern

11-05-2010, 12:37 PM

But why not do both. You can have fun and do a workout. I hope Sean T, the trainer from the Insanity program puts out a Kinect game. Id love an actual game with the intensity of Insanity. But then again, i guess i could just do the Insanity workout again?

yea you could

:o

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 04:57 PM

So my sister and i got the Kinect Sports and Dance Central. Both work really well and both are quite strenuous. Dance Central can really feel like a workout. I was pleased with how the sensor tracked my movements in both titles. I think an area where Kinect tops the Wii or Move is being able to use your feet. So playing a game like goal keeper, where you have to stop a bunch of soccer balls from scoring works really well because you can use your hands and feet to hit the ball. Bowling is also more intuitive without a controller. You just bowl. Iv never been big into motion controlled games, but the fact that Kinect really gets you moving, not just swinging your arms is pretty neat. I can see myself playing Dance Central for a quick workout or when i have parties and everyone is drunk.

BlackLantern

11-05-2010, 04:58 PM

thats it PP...I see you on RDR this weekend, you are getting shot in the face

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 05:01 PM

thats it PP...I see you on RDR this weekend, you are getting shot in the face

LOL.

Dude, dancing is fun, what can i say. Soulja Boy tellem!

BlackLantern

11-05-2010, 05:02 PM

In. The. Face. and your horse too

StrainedEyes

11-05-2010, 07:01 PM

But for those who have the Kinect, any games suggestions? Im thinking of maybe picking up that sports game, or dance central?

From watching Giant Bomb's extensive live streaming of Kinect yesterday, the only games that look good are Kinect Sports, Kinectimals and Dance Central. Your Shape has a cool UI, but it is just a Wii Fit style thing. Kinect Joy Ride looked like a fine but really simple cart racer.

Everything else looked either busted or boring, and do not under any circumstances (except ironically) get MotionSports.

However, I highly suggest watching their MotionSports quick look because it derails in such an amazing way. "Oh please, alright let me reintroduce you two. Rider meet horse, horse meet rider."

ProjectPat2280

11-05-2010, 11:13 PM

From watching Giant Bomb's extensive live streaming of Kinect yesterday, the only games that look good are Kinect Sports, Kinectimals and Dance Central. Your Shape has a cool UI, but it is just a Wii Fit style thing. Kinect Joy Ride looked like a fine but really simple cart racer.

Everything else looked either busted or boring, and do not under any circumstances (except ironically) get MotionSports.

However, I highly suggest watching their MotionSports quick look because it derails in such an amazing way. "Oh please, alright let me reintroduce you two. Rider meet horse, horse meet rider."

Yea, we got Kinect Sports and Dance Central, both are pretty damn fun. Altho my rhythm needs serious work. I wasnt even familiar with Motion Sports.

Benstamania

11-06-2010, 12:39 AM

Got a LOT of good responses from people about Kinect today. If it's as good as I hear maybe I'll pick it up after the first of the year.

/Dr. Seuss.

ProjectPat2280

11-06-2010, 12:47 AM

Got a LOT of good responses from people about Kinect today. If it's as good as I hear maybe I'll pick it up after the first of the year.

/Dr. Seuss.

LOL. Nice rhyme, nice rhyme.

IMO, its a neat device and theres room to grow, however if you really aren't in to motion type gaming, the likes we've seen with the Wii and Move(altho Kinect is more intuitive than both) then i dont see much need for one due to the limited support outside of games. Right now, the only thing you can control with Kinect is ESPN, Zune and LastFM(i think theres one or two others but i didnt bother to remember them). If they add Netflix support in, ill be super stoked.

Benstamania

11-06-2010, 01:18 AM

I <3 the Wii. Haters keep hatin'.

Iceman

11-06-2010, 06:03 AM

StrainedEyes

11-06-2010, 10:48 AM

Pls correct me if I'm mistaken as I've not been keeping up with developments.

The lo-res camera (to keep costs down) seems a bit disappointing for the potential of Kinect with more advanced games. Obviously it is at least initially aimed at casual gamers but I'd personally prefer a higher grade product even if more expensive. Then if they could combine this upgraded product with a current 360 controller we would have something really special & groundbreaking on our hands.

They are still losing money per unit, they are just losing less money then they initial would have if they kept the higher quality camera.

It is a shame because the video chat now looks kind of bad, and the camera can't detect as much as it used to.

The original Kinect had a much higher resolution (over twice that of the final model's 320x240), and as such, was able to not only recognise the limbs of a player as the current model version can, but their fingers as well (which the current version can't). And when the hardware could recognise fingers, it would have been able to read sign language.

But that capability came at a cost, and while Microsoft had always intended Kinect to sell for $150, "dumbing down" the camera would have meant that Microsoft wouldn't be losing as much money on each unit sold, an important point should Kinect prove to be a failure. So dumb it down they did, reducing the camera's resolution (which in turn reduced the number of appendages it'd have to track) and placing the burden for some of the device's processing on the console and not Kinect's own hardware.
http://kotaku.com/5609840/kinect-dumbed-down-to-save-money-cant-read-sign-language