SM4: spidey, hero or menace?

[spider-neil]

how do you want the public to view spidey in the new movie?

[Joker]

He's obviously going to be a hero. The public and media loved him in the final fight scene in SM-3. He was vindicated of the frame up Eddie Brock tried to pin on him.

I mean they gave him the key to the city.

[The Chris]

He's obviously going to be a hero. The public and media loved him in the final fight scene in SM-3. He was vindicated of the frame up Eddie Brock tried to pin on him.

I mean they gave him the key to the city.

Agreed. Going menace I think is going a little backwards after the reactions he was getting all through Spider-Man 3 (and no matter how many people didn't like it, I hope this movie doesn't pretend that Spider-Man 3 didn't happen)

[spider-neil]

I don't care how they do it but spidey should always be hated by the majority, at the very least distrusted. it (being loved) works for supes but not bats and spidey.

[Eggyman]

A hero, without doubt. They've already made that particular bed, now Spidey 4 has to lie in it.

[redfirebird2008]

Gotta go with "hero." :)

[SpaceWay2009]

Well, I voted for menace, but after hearing what everyone has to say, I think it's better that the public view Spider-Man as a hero. SM3 already made it clear that Spider-Man is viewed as a hero by the people of NY. SM4 will just have to continue that.

[spider-neil]

spidey being a hero can change quickly. for example if the villian is lizard and he attacks someone calls for the police and spidey is seen leaving the scene of the crime jjj would nail spidey to the wall.

[SpaceWay2009]

^That's true. If the Lizard is in SM4, the public could see Spider-Man trying to help the Lizard, even after all the deaths the Lizard has caused. This would give the public the idea that Spider-Man supports the Lizard's actions.

[SpeterMan3]

I think there should be like, a "Both" or "Hero, but menace to some, or at times" option. I want to vote for both, but I can't! lol.

[spider-neil]

^That's true. If the Lizard is in SM4, the public could see Spider-Man trying to help the Lizard, even after all the deaths the Lizard has caused. This would give the public the idea that Spider-Man supports the Lizard's actions.


exactly, there is so much potential, because the public/police would see a monster but spidey would see a friend and a father and would probably help him escape if the police cornered him (the lizard).

[Adrian89]

After how SM3 ended, they will surely view him as a hero!

[Immortalfire]

Hero, although JJJ will still be ranting.

:spidey:

[Goran]

I want the city to see him as a menace, but I guess he's going to be the hero :)

[Joker]

Hero, although JJJ will still be ranting.

:spidey:

Huge missed opportunity for that in SM-3. We never saw Jonah's reaction to Spidey getting a Spidey day festival, or getting the key to the city.

[luke1234]

Huge missed opportunity for that in SM-3. We never saw Jonah's reaction to Spidey getting a Spidey day festival, or getting the key to the city.

Ah yeah i wish we would of gotten to see his reaction.

[SpeterMan3]

That would have been so amazing.

[Reikowolf]

I think the city will return to the status of SM2 where they are torn about him. Some people will call him a hero while others will begin to believe that he is the cause of much of the city's problems as these superpowered villains show up to fight him.

They may need to do another montage of him like in the first spider-man



don't forget the reporter did say that they weren't entirely sure if Venom was the black suited spider-man at first.

many people watching may have made the link that Spider-Man may be the reason Venom even showed up.

it would be interesting to see how SM4 plays out in this aspect as JJJ could draw public opinion on the matter.


"some kind of freaky do, or wackaloo."

[Joker]

don't forget the reporter did say that they weren't entirely sure if Venom was the black suited spider-man at first.

Until they saw Spider-Man swing in beside the American Flag :cwink:

[TwoFace12]

Wheres the both option on this poll?

[MessiahDecoy123]

Spidey = public menace

Kraven = public hero

[Frodo]

He always needs to be a menace or underdog IMO . That Spiderman Day stuff in the last one was pretty lame imo though I'm sure there's been stuff like that in the comics. I like the idea of Spiderman not being respected except by those whose lives he's touched . That's part of the reason he has a snarky attitude.

[MessiahDecoy123]

I tire of Spider-man parades.

Corny as hell.

[spider-neil]

I used to love it when spidey would save the day and jjj would turn it around in the next day edition to make him (spidey) look like a villian.
there is far more story potential with spidey as a menace, for instance the police could be tasked with taking him down.

[dark_b]

you can not have in every movie people hating spiderman and then at the end loving him. you can not do this all the time.

[Frodo]

True but Spiderman shouldn't be viewed the same way Superman is . If anything he's a polarizing figuare not the type who they give the key to the city to.

[Spiderine]

Spidey = public menace

Kraven = public hero
Yes, Exactly. After Spiderman's failed attemps to capture Lizard and save the city from this beast, they turn to Kraven who has had success in this field and promises to rid the city of Lizard. JJJ praises Kraven for his heroics and trashes Spidey since no one would understand why Spidey is trying to save Connors/Lizard.

[Spider-ManHero12]

I'd say they are going to look at him as a hero. However, there are probably still a good amount of people in New York who don't like him. Not everyone, but there still will be some.

[venom892]

To tell you the truth one scene I really didn't like in Spider-man 3 was the whole "Spider-man" day stuff.Spider-man shouldn't be celebrated by New york.He isn't Superman or the Fantastic Four.He is more feared/disliked then loved.

[spider-neil]

there is absolutely more story potential with a hated spidey than a beloved spidey. if you want interesting stories take the hero places he doesn't want to go, put him through the wringer, give him hell he will come out a stronger character on the other side.

'spider-man day?' 'keys to the city?' 'new york loves spider-man' *shudder*

[Johnny Drama]

The menace angle has been done before in these movies, lets focus on Spidey the hero...

[Eggyman]

The menace angle has been done before in these movies, lets focus on Spidey the hero...

:wow:....

We... agree on something :eek:

[Goran]

They could show public's opinion similar to the scenes in SM1, when they interviewed passers by. It could be a part of a campaign induced by JJJ to support Kraven. They want to show that Spidey is not able to save the city from the Lizard and is even protecting the Lizard in a way (since he knows it's Connors).

[Reikowolf]

They could show public's opinion similar to the scenes in SM1, when they interviewed passers by. It could be a part of a campaign induced by JJJ to support Kraven. They want to show that Spidey is not able to save the city from the Lizard and is even protecting the Lizard in a way (since he knows it's Connors).

Good point.

I thought the spider-man day was a great idea. It actually helped to show that people held Spider-Man in too high of a regard. It's like the GG said, If there's anything the public likes more than a hero is to see a hero fall, fail, die trying. He has a celebrity type status and as such everything he does is under scrutiny.


Better than "The world Unity Festival" ftw?

I'm not from new york or anything but I don't think thats a real thing. Would it not have made more sense to make it the Thanksgiving day parade? I mean.. the movie did have a scene taking place during thanksgiving...

[Reikowolf]

on a side note. I think the results of this poll would serve to show how public opinion of Spider-Man in SM4 may look like.

The majority may love him but a little under half would still not think highly of him

[CFE]

A hero...but a hero humbled.

He's reaped the consequences of falling prey to pride. But now, the public should still love him...only he doesn't let it go to his head anymore.

[chaseter]

Menace...it is time for Spidey to get knocked back down a peg:o

[bullets]

I alway though of him as a menace . He never offered once to clean up the city after all the damage he caused.

[Eggyman]

lol

He's a superhero, not a road sweeper.

[david icke]

I had to vote 'menace'. In the Spider-man comics I read he was generally thought of as a menace thanks to the Daily Bugle. I always liked it when Spidey would rescue someone and they would be surprised that he was doing something decent. If someone was a fan they would surprise Spidey and would be a kind of cool person who did not believe everything they read , 'I don't care what old JJJ says about, I always thought you were alright.' kind of thing, or it would be some little innocent kid who liked him. Him generally being regarded as a menace made those little moments of recognition that much sweeter. I got a far bigger kick out of those than any large crowd clapping scenes from the Spidey movies.

I like getting the mixture, one moment 'He stole that guy's pizzas' and then right after someone shouting 'Go Spidey go!' after he saves them with some webbing.

Even if he saves the city from some big disaster(like the end of Spidey3), the Bugle should have the power to twist that round in some people's minds to them thinking Spider-man was the cause of it all, otherwise what's the point in having a great character like JJJ, apart from comedy relief, which is a waste.
It's more interesting if folk distrust him, after all that was always one of the things that set Spidey apart from other heroes in comicbooks, no-one knew who he was(other heroes included) and there were a variety of opinions on him. Just like in real life most people believe what they read in the media, so the overiding opinion was that he was a menace.

[spider-neil]

I had to vote 'menace'. In the Spider-man comics I read he was generally thought of as a menace thanks to the Daily Bugle. I always liked it when Spidey would rescue someone and they would be surprised that he was doing something decent. If someone was a fan they would surprise Spidey and would be a kind of cool person who did not believe everything they read , 'I don't care what old JJJ says about, I always thought you were alright.' kind of thing, or it would be some little innocent kid who liked him. Him generally being regarded as a menace made those little moments of recognition that much sweeter. I got a far bigger kick out of those than any large crowd clapping scenes from the Spidey movies.

I like getting the mixture, one moment 'He stole that guy's pizzas' and then right after someone shouting 'Go Spidey go!' after he saves them with some webbing.

Even if he saves the city from some big disaster(like the end of Spidey3), the Bugle should have the power to twist that round in some people's minds to them thinking Spider-man was the cause of it all, otherwise what's the point in having a great character like JJJ, apart from comedy relief, which is a waste.
It's more interesting if folk distrust him, after all that was always one of the things that set Spidey apart from other heroes in comicbooks, no-one knew who he was(other heroes included) and there were a variety of opinions on him. Just like in real life most people believe what they read in the media, so the overiding opinion was that he was a menace.

excellent post and my thoughts exactly

[Reikowolf]

SPIDER-MAN TERRORIZES CITY WITH SANDMAN AND BLACK SUITED FIGURE

Daily bugle editor and chief JJJ was at the scene for what could only be described as a horrific show of force as the sandman and Spider-Man's black suited accomplice kidnapped New York Actress Mary Jane Watson. JJJ could only watch and hope that the mysterious green masked vigilante could stop the three super powered brutes from killing the poor girl. Many new York’s would claim that the black suited figure was the true cause of the commotion but our editor's experience quickly saw past Spider-man's trick and even saw them swing together as they kept the green vigilante at bay in the air while the sandman covered the ground. The vigilante, although not recognizable, wore no mask as he had nothing to hide.

Pictures and article by JJJ

[HughJackFan420]

i say hero but i would like to see him don the black spidey suit again to help him with more power future villains and the possible return of Venom and intro of Carnage

[david icke]

SPIDER-MAN TERRORIZES CITY WITH SANDMAN AND BLACK SUITED FIGURE

Daily bugle editor and chief JJJ was at the scene for what could only be described as a horrific show of force as the sandman and Spider-Man's black suited accomplice kidnapped New York Actress Mary Jane Watson. JJJ could only watch and hope that the mysterious green masked vigilante could stop the three super powered brutes from killing the poor girl. Many new York’s would claim that the black suited figure was the true cause of the commotion but our editor's experience quickly saw past Spider-man's trick and even saw them swing together as they kept the green vigilante at bay in the air while the sandman covered the ground. The vigilante, although not recognizable, wore no mask as he had nothing to hide.

Pictures and article by JJJ

Exactly, and he could even find out that it was Harry O who died on the scene and spin it up that he was the only hero there. 'Tragic Osborne uses company technology to save high school sweetheart.'

spider-neil - yeah, he needs to be regarded as a menace to have that feel of the Spider-man comics. Any other way would just feel like any other superhero.

[Reikowolf]

heh,

I still love the scene where JJJ is admitting Spider-Man was a hero in SM2 just to have the costume stolen from his wall quickly turning his opinion around again.

That whole sequence is superbly shot

HE'S BACK

*rips through the the paper, swings across the city, camera pulls back to reveal OCK watching him as he climbs the clock tower*

[Chris Wallace]

I'd like public opinion of him to be mixed. But rational people should be able to see his good deeds for what they are, & not buy into JJJ's BS. So I'd say the majority should view him as a hero.

[THOR]

The menace angle has been done before in these movies, lets focus on Spidey the hero...

I agree 100%! Let's focus on ONE good villain, and Spider-man please in this next installment. How about The Lizard or The Scorpion? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-merv/spidey.gif

[david icke]

I'd like public opinion of him to be mixed. But rational people should be able to see his good deeds for what they are, & not buy into JJJ's BS. So I'd say the majority should view him as a hero.

Y'know I realized typing up 'most people believe what they read and would regard him as a menace' might have been a bit of a negative view on people in general, but I was trying to think of a real life example that made me feel that's the way it would go(if there was constant negative media reports) , and why I think the comics presentation feels real.

The example I thought of was Simon Cowell from American Idol/pop idol/x-factor etc(bear with me), he has this overiding rep of being an insulting bad guy, when he says something that isn't too glowing or gives someone a knockback, the crowd all jeer, and when a kb'd contestant says 'You're a horrible man Simon etc', the crowd all whoop in approval.
But, if you listen to what the guy says he makes a lot of sense and is usually right.
That's what I think could happen with Spidey, and does in the comics. A lot of people would not look at his deeds, or indeed be present to see such deeds, and would unthinkingly take on board and agree with the constant reports in the media. Since Parker sells his photos to the Bugle, and JJJ has his bugbear, most Spidey stories would appear there, and would be negative.

Ok, if, as you say, most people are rational, and would not necesarily believe JJJ's ott headlines and spin stories, that's not to say they would go to the other extreme and believe Spidey was a hero. They might just think he's some guy who gets into scraps with other super-types, maybe he's a publicity hound who gets money from the papers etc.
I've never seen large crowds cheering for Spidey in the comics, maybe a small bunch when they have been standing there watching proceedings and have gathered that he's fighting for his life/their lifes. The crowd on the bridge scene in SM1 was like this, cominng after all the negative publicity JJJ had stirred up, they could see what was happening.

Spidey has always had the plot points of the Bugle and JJJ, they have to mean something in the movies as they do in the books. I just don't think it feels right that you should automatically have large crowds cheering for Spidey in the movies when he shows up, his is not that kind of story.

[SpeterMan3]

Y'know I realized typing up 'most people believe what they read and would regard him as a menace' might have been a bit of a negative view on people in general, but I was trying to think of a real life example that made me feel that's the way it would go(if there was constant negative media reports) , and why I think the comics presentation feels real.

The example I thought of was Simon Cowell from American Idol/pop idol/x-factor etc(bear with me), he has this overiding rep of being an insulting bad guy, when he says something that isn't too glowing or gives someone a knockback, the crowd all jeer, and when a kb'd contestant says 'You're a horrible man Simon etc', the crowd all whoop in approval.
But, if you listen to what the guy says he makes a lot of sense and is usually right.
That's what I think could happen with Spidey, and does in the comics. A lot of people would not look at his deeds, or indeed be present to see such deeds, and would unthinkingly take on board and agree with the constant reports in the media. Since Parker sells his photos to the Bugle, and JJJ has his bugbear, most Spidey stories would appear there, and would be negative.

Ok, if, as you say, most people are rational, and would not necesarily believe JJJ's ott headlines and spin stories, that's not to say they would go to the other extreme and believe Spidey was a hero. They might just think he's some guy who gets into scraps with other super-types, maybe he's a publicity hound who gets money from the papers etc.
I've never seen large crowds cheering for Spidey in the comics, maybe a small bunch when they have been standing there watching proceedings and have gathered that he's fighting for his life/their lifes. The crowd on the bridge scene in SM1 was like this, cominng after all the negative publicity JJJ had stirred up, they could see what was happening.

Spidey has always had the plot points of the Bugle and JJJ, they have to mean something in the movies as they do in the books. I just don't think it feels right that you should automatically have large crowds cheering for Spidey in the movies when he shows up, his is not that kind of story.
Wow, I actually read all of this, and agree 100%. :up:

[Compi716]

Spidey is a PUBLIC MENACE!!!

That was probably the single most irritating aspect of Spider-Man 3 for me, and small elements of 1 and 2. Spider-Man Day? SPIDER-MAN DAY?! Talk about giving the biggest WTF-caused slap in the face to 40 years of history.

[SpeterMan3]

The poll is dead even now, lol. 17-17.

[Reikowolf]

Spidey is a PUBLIC MENACE!!!

That was probably the single most irritating aspect of Spider-Man 3 for me, and small elements of 1 and 2. Spider-Man Day? SPIDER-MAN DAY?! Talk about giving the biggest WTF-caused slap in the face to 40 years of history.


He did save the city from being blown up by a perpetual sun after he had been missing for a while and crime rates began soaring.

I think Spider-Man day was believable, which is all the more reason why people turn their backs on him in 4 after he ruined his public image.

[david icke]

He did save the city from being blown up by a perpetual sun after he had been missing for a while and crime rates began soaring.

I think Spider-Man day was believable, which is all the more reason why people turn their backs on him in 4 after he ruined his public image.

See, that's where I think they missed a trick with the black suit story in 3. When the 1st publicity photos of Spider-man day came through I was thinking, 'Ah, they're setting him up for a fall, he'll start being more viscious in the blacks suit and public opinion will turn against him after, for once in his life, getting a nice public hero song and dance parade.'
But, all the bad black suit stuff was done in private, out of public gaze, he remained a hero in the public's eyes. Sure, it was a nice set up for Pete hitting the peak of his oversized ego, before falling in his own eyes, and his friends, but they lost the opportunity of putting Spidey into the menace category where he belongs.

For the final battle I think it would have been more interesting to have the crowd and media unsure of Spider-man, but realizing that he was probably the only one who could take care of Sandman and Venom.
It certainly would have made the tv coverage more interesting, to have the opinion switch from 'oh, do we trust this guy anymore? Is he here for the right reasons?', to, 'oh, he's doing it, he's saving the hostage', to, 'oh no, he's getting his ass kicked.'
What do we get instead of that? Spidey essentially dropping into a Superman shot, right in front of the stars and stripes to an adoring crowd.

As said previously, that whole situation could easily be twisted afterwards by the media, the message written in the web by Venom could be construed as a grudge match invite, and the city could think that hostages are being taken just so some superpowered folk can have their fights.

RE: Spider-man 2 and the papers reporting crime rates going down/JJJ changing his reaction. This type of thing seemed like an exception to the rule, that of Spidey being the menace, although we didn't see that much of him being regarded as one.

[Reikowolf]

/\

good point.

[Joker]

RE: Spider-man 2 and the papers reporting crime rates going down/JJJ changing his reaction.

Don't you mean crime rates going up? Went up 75% I think.

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.

[david icke]

Don't you mean crime rates going up? Went up 75% I think.

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.

Yeah, crime rates going up, slip o the mind there.

See, but I think SM3 could've just as easily started with Spidey's rep on the fence of hero or menace?
The train save could just as well look as if it was caused by Spidey in the first place, the Bugle would of course paint it that way in the comics; who knows about him saving MJ and stopping the big thing from destroying the city? Only MJ, no other witnesses, again, this could be twisted by the Bugle and the media into him merely being present at a near disaster, not the one who prevented it.
It was just that SM3's plot needed Spidey put up on a pedastel for him to fall off of. SM2 could've just as easily started off with him watching the hero video with the kids after him saving the kids at the end of SM1, but Raimi wanted to touch on the hero or menace thing for a bit in SM2. I got a big kick out the guy assuming he stole the pizzas as I was wanting a bit of public mis-trust for Spidey, that moment felt totally right to me, straight from the comics.

[spider-neil]

and menace takes the lead for the first time! YAY!:oldrazz:

[Chris Wallace]

In the comics, how is he currently viewed? I haven't picked one up in a while.

[SpeterMan3]

and menace takes the lead for the first time! YAY!:oldrazz:
And now, it's tied again. :csad:

[chaseter]

Don't you mean crime rates going up? Went up 75% I think.

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.
That is why we have JJJ. "Spidey and Ock Terrorize Train"

[The Slang]

I can't believe there are so many people in favour of spidey being seen as a hero. Is there anyone here that's actually a fan of the source material?

These movies have all been too much like the christopher reeves superman films. Parker awkardly nudges his way around a newspaper office, with clark kents hairstyle. And crowds of people stop in the streets to point and cheer, dazzled by a blue and red figure zooming through the sky.

Unfortunately though, I do understand that if there was a direct continuity between 3 & 4, it wouldn't make sense to have spidey hated by the public. Even though that's kind of one of spideys defining traits... Like a spider, he is feard and shunned by most people, despite serving a useful porpose. Catching thieves... just like flies. Look out!

... here comes the spider-man

[The Slang]

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.

Yeh... 'Cept Spider-man was kind of responsible for endangering the train in the first place. And MJ.

[Joker]

Yeh... 'Cept Spider-man was kind of responsible for endangering the train in the first place. And MJ.

Yeah, Spider-Man is responsible for the actions of the villains :whatever:

[The Slang]

Um, If a police officer mishandles a situation causing a gun fight to spill into a street and harm innocent bystanders, they are held responsible *rolls eyes*

Spider-man pulled Ock from the building, for no other purpose than to trigger the high octane train fight.

[Joker]

Um, If a police officer mishandles a situation causing a gun fight to spill into a street and harm innocent bystanders, they are held responsible *rolls eyes*

Spider-man pulled Ock from the building, for no other purpose than to trigger the high octane train fight.

Yeah, because Spider-Man timed it so they would land on the train passing by at that exact moment :whatever:

They were on a clock tower. There was no pedestrians below. Just train tracks. You might as well blame Spidey for Green Goblin attacking MJ, Aunt May, and the tram full of kids because he refused to join Green Goblin.

Ridiculous logic.

[The Slang]

It wasn't because he didn't join Green goblin, it was because he failed to protect his identity. That IS why Mj and aunt May were attacked. The kids were taken because of his refusal to join the goblin... which would probably have been the easiest way to apprehend the goblin anyway. All I'm saying is that spider-man would seem more heroic to me if he did alot more intervening in situations not directly or indirectly caused by him.

The way I remember spidey, he'd be guilt ridden and beating himself up over endangering lives.

[Joker]

It wasn't because he didn't join Green goblin, it was because he failed to protect his identity. That IS why Mj and aunt May were attacked.

Oh you want to split hairs? Ok, I can do that.

Why did Green Goblin attack Peter's loved ones in the first place? Because he refused to join him.

"No one says no to me"

"I offered you friendship, and you spat in my face"

Yeah, he got to attack MJ and Aunt May because he learned Peter's identity. But that was a direct result of Peter refusing to join him. Had they joined forces, there would have been no reprisals from Goblin.

Is Spider-Man to blame for Goblin's insane actions? No. Same way as he's not responsible for Doc Ock's. He didn't create these villains. He didn't set them loose on New York with their insane agendas.

Spidey is in no way responsible for what they did. They made their own choices.

[Chris Wallace]

It wasn't because he didn't join Green goblin, it was because he failed to protect his identity. That IS why Mj and aunt May were attacked. The kids were taken because of his refusal to join the goblin... which would probably have been the easiest way to apprehend the goblin anyway. All I'm saying is that spider-man would seem more heroic to me if he did alot more intervening in situations not directly or indirectly caused by him.


Maybe as a rookie superhero, the thought of such deception wouldn't occur to him. Maybe just starting out, & with Jameson already turning people against him, swearing allegiance to a homocidal maniac didn't sound like the right course of action. Besides, if he'd lied, GG most likely would've seen right through it & gotten even more violent.

[The Slang]

To Joker. What I meant to say is:
I know Spidey refusing to join the goblin was the cause for attacking MJ/Aunt May and dropping the tram full of kids... but Aunt May and MJ would have had no involvement if he protected his identity. Spider-man is still indirectly responsible for all 3, and also the apartment fire, just for the fact that if he never involved himself in the goblins business or paraded around in the public eye... the events never would've came to be. Although the goblin probably wouldve harmed people anyway. I don't blame spider-man for the villains actions, I mean I'm not J Jonah Jameson here. But I think spider-man would blame himself, as would the law most likely. Through inaction, involvement or inability spider-man has brought about many of the potential disasters he has had to prevent. Although he's a hero to ME, and I know he means well... my emotions aren't enough to blind me to the truth... or poor writing.

[Joker]

To Joker. What I meant to say is:
I know Spidey refusing to join the goblin was the cause for attacking MJ/Aunt May and dropping the tram full of kids... but Aunt May and MJ would have had no involvement if he protected his identity.

He did protect his identity. All he had was a cut on his arm. Something only Goblin would recognize. The last place in the world he expected to find the Green Goblin was at his Thanksgiving dinner with friends and family.

It was a million to one chance.

Spider-man is still indirectly responsible for all 3, and also the apartment fire, just for the fact that if he never involved himself in the goblins business or paraded around in the public eye... the events never would've came to be. I don't blame spider-man for the villains actions, I mean I'm not J Jonah Jameson here. But I think spider-man would blame himself, as would the law most likely. Through inaction, involvement or inability spider-man has brought about many of the potential disasters he has had to prevent. Although he's a hero to ME, and I know he means well... my emotions aren't enough to blind me to the truth... or poor writing.

I don't recall Spidey blaming himself for any of the villains' evil deeds. He didn't even seem at all guilty for the thief's death in SM-1.

Peter: "He had a gun on me. I made a move, and he fell"

So why would he be feeling responsible for the villains' actions? The only villain he should feel remotely responsible for is Venom, because he had him fired in disgrace, and dated the girl Brock was obsessed with. Venom's entire basis was in retaliation to that. And even then Brock was in the wrong because he faked those pics in the Bugle to frame Spidey and get himself a job.

[SpeterMan3]

Menace 19 - Hero 18

[Chris Wallace]

I wish the poll had included a "mixed opinion" option. That, to me, is more realistic. For everyone to hate him is stupid & for everyone to love him is equally stupid. In the real world, public perception is always split. Is Michael Jackson a child molester? Is Tom Cruise gay? Can Barack Obama fix the economy? Were the Black Panthers a bunch of hate-mongers? Did Kris Allen deserve to win American Idol? Is Halle Berry the most beautiful woman in the world? Is "The Dark Knight" the greatest comic book movie ever? Depends on who you ask.
I think if anything, the dead-heat status of this poll supports my argument.

[The Slang]

He did protect his identity. All he had was a cut on his arm. Something only Goblin would recognize. The last place in the world he expected to find the Green Goblin was at his Thanksgiving dinner with friends and family.

Okay this will be my last post, as your starting to irritate me by being increasingly nitpicky and purposely confusing my points.

Bad choice of words on my part- He didn't fail to protect his identity. He failed to keep his identity secret. Can we agree on that?

And lol hello? Uncle Ben? ring a bell? Parker becomes spider-man because he blames himself for the actions of a criminal.

[SpeterMan3]

I wish the poll had included a "mixed opinion" option. That, to me, is more realistic. For everyone to hate him is stupid & for everyone to love him is equally stupid. In the real world, public perception is always split. Is Michael Jackson a child molester? (Nooooo!!) Is Tom Cruise gay? (Nahhhh) Can Barack Obama fix the economy? (idk, lol) Were the Black Panthers a bunch of hate-mongers? (Maybe a little, but mostly no, lol) Did Kris Allen deserve to win American Idol? (Cheese, nah!) Is Halle Berry the most beautiful woman in the world? (No, my mommy is.) Is "The Dark Knight" the greatest comic book movie ever? (I don't see what's so great about it...) Depends on who you ask.
I think if anything, the dead-heat status of this poll supports my argument.
I agree 100%

[Joker]

Okay this will be my last post as your starting to irritate me by being increasingly nitpicky and purposely confusing my points.

I'm being nitpicky? LOL! Pot, kettle, and black spring to mind here.

I'm not purposely confusing anything. If I'm confusing your points, it's because your points don't make sense.

Bad choice of words on my part- He didn't fail to protect his identity. He failed to keep his identity secret. Can we agree on that?

Yes.

And lol hello? Uncle Ben? ring a bell? Parker becomes spider-man because he blames himself for the actions of a criminal.

No, he blamed himself because he deliberately let the criminal go just to spite the wrestling manager who cheated him. He could have stopped the thief but he didn't.

He didn't use his great power with great responsibility. And if that's not clear enough for you, you do remember that confession he made to Aunt May in SM-2 for being responsible for Ben's death, right?

He didn't blame himself for the actions of the criminal. He blamed himself for his lack of action in stopping the criminal when he should have.

With great power comes great responsibility. He doesn't blame himself for the deaths Green Goblin and Doc Ock caused because at least he tried to stop them. He didn't stand back and do nothing.

[Chris Wallace]

I'm being nitpicky? LOL! Pot, kettle, and black spring to mind here.

I'm not purposely confusing anything. If I'm confusing your points, it's because your points don't make sense.



Yes.



No, he blamed himself because he deliberately let the criminal go just to spite the wrestling manager who cheated him. He could have stopped the thief but he didn't.

He didn't use his great power with great responsibility. And if that's not clear enough for you, you do remember that confession he made to Aunt May in SM-2 for being responsible for Ben's death, right?

He didn't blame himself for the actions of the criminal. He blamed himself for his lack of action in stopping the criminal when he should have.

With great power comes great responsibility. He doesn't blame himself for the deaths Green Goblin and Doc Ock caused because at least he tried to stop them. He didn't stand back and do nothing.

Exactamundo.
All of which is moot. Whether or not he's viewed as a hero depends on how people see his intentions, not whether or not he makes mistakes. Nobody knows how he & Ock got on top of the train, why the Goblin attacked the tram or anything else. This thread is about his public image. Hell, people know he hung up his tights for a while. Do they know he did it over a girl? No. Do they know he smacked his girl while he was possessed by an alien parasite? Or that he tried to kill Sandman? Or that he blew up his best friend? No. He makes mistakes. So what? Does that mean he's not a hero? I don't think so. Is he less of a hero for not pulling the Goblin out of the way of the glider?

[spider-neil]

whoa, this poll has split the board in two.

[Venom'sDad]

Well, I guess it's safe to say, half the people don't know what they're talking about. :oldrazz:

[Construct]

Spidey = public menace

Kraven = public hero
I'm with this. I think that this post title/question would be a good theme for the film, given that Kraven and Lizard are involved.

[Chris Wallace]

Well, I guess it's safe to say, half the people don't know what they're talking about. :oldrazz:

I think we all feel that way.

[Fresh Prince]

Hero he been a menacne since the 1st film.

[Chris Wallace]

Did anybody really distrust him in 2, other than Jameson, Harry (for obvious reasons) & the guy who thought he'd jacked Peter for the pizza?