View Full Version : Making Superman More Than a Superhero Movie
Blackman
06-22-2009, 01:56 PM
I noticed that DC usually has deeper purposes and second genres to alot of their characters
Batman....superhero gangster saga
Wonder Woman....superhero swords and sandals story
Green Lantern...superhero space epic
The Flash.....superhero adventure comedy
Aquaman.....superhero underwater King Arthur
How can a person make Superman be more than just a regular action superhero movie?
Superman kind of has a second genre as a journalist film and also a third genre of a romance tale. What would be needed to bring these things to the screen?
Superman Prime
06-22-2009, 02:17 PM
I'd prefer it be a patriotic adventure. That likely won't happen, because they'll want other countries to feel included under Superman's shadow. The stomping down of patriotism began with the darkening down of the colors of his suit in SR. It's sad. For the sake of misguided political correctness, they sacrifice any sense of national individualism.
RachelDawes
06-22-2009, 03:26 PM
Before GL came along, I would've said that Superman could be the star of a space epic, but that's obviously GL's territory now.
I almost like the idea of Superman being a romance/adventure combination, except I don't normally care for the love subplot of comic book movies. Still, Lois is a strong character in her own right.
Maybe Supes could be a mix of almost all those. Just add romance, mystery, space adventures, and comedy and you've got yourself a trilogy. :yay:
Blackman
06-22-2009, 03:29 PM
Lois and Clark are the 20th century Romeo and Juliet,
also they're the greatest comic book couple.
How would they add the adventure aspect?
RachelDawes
06-22-2009, 03:34 PM
^Superman could travel to the farthest ends of the earth to fight supervillains. Also, great CGI would give the audience the sensation of flight and fear as Superman takes on the bad guys in epic battles. Also, Lois and Supes's other friends need to be in danger at times, until he swoops in and saves them of course. :super:
dark_b
06-22-2009, 03:36 PM
i say keep it simple for the first movie. entertain people in the first movie. then when you have the fanbase you can make it more serious or complicated.
Superman Prime
06-22-2009, 04:01 PM
^ Disagreed. I think it's advisable to start off with a heavy-handed bang. That will set a precedence in the audience's minds for the new Superman film series.
The Guard
06-22-2009, 06:02 PM
Superman should be a patriotic adventure in what sense?
A Superman movie should inspire, not simply promote one county over another.
The idea of an Earthbound godlike/savior being is incredibly compelling, and should be explored.
dark_b
06-23-2009, 02:56 AM
^ Disagreed. I think it's advisable to start off with a heavy-handed bang. That will set a precedence in the audience's minds for the new Superman film series.really?
TDK is nto happening every year. having a to complicated superman mvoie is a huge risk IMO.
Superman Prime
06-23-2009, 03:13 AM
No it's not. You're the only one talking about TDK. Having a slow-paced, introductory Superman film is a high risk. That's what we had with Superman Returns, and I don't have to tell you how that turned out. Fans have been drooling over the idea of Superman fighting a superpowered villain on the silver screen. The wait should be over. Everyone knows his origins, everyone is sick of Lex Luthor. The last thing the average person wants is yet another Superman film that beats around the bush.
After the first credits, I'd start off the film with Superman smack-dab in the middle of a fight with a lesser known villain. Something to get a death-grip on the audience's attention, that also foreshadows the fight that will come later. It should be something of a preview within the film itself.
And I know someone will come along and say that they want more than an explosive brawling film. I agree. I want an explosive brawling film that also has an engaging plot and cast of characters. It can be done. That is what I demand from this Superman reboot.
markstrange
06-23-2009, 03:21 AM
Superman is a Drama.
Superman Prime
06-23-2009, 03:48 AM
Superman should be a patriotic adventure in what sense?
A Superman movie should inspire, not simply promote one county over another.
The idea of an Earthbound godlike/savior being is incredibly compelling, and should be explored.
"Truth, justice, and the American way." I'd at least like to see his American symbolism restored. That means restoring the latter part of that classic phrase that was removed in SR, making his suit vibrant again, and ensuring that there are writers who understand the values the character represented. Sure, a lot of those values seem archaic by modern standards. They still exist in the mid-west to some degree, especially amongst the baby boomer-aged crowds and up. I should know. I live in Kansas. It would be highlighting what makes Superman a unique character, and would also be quite nostalgic.
Lois and Clark are the 20th century Romeo and Juliet,
also they're the greatest comic book couple.
How would they add the adventure aspect?
Superman is a Drama
Great Scott!.......no!
Think back....what word is most frequently used in the title of a Superman production.........ADVENTURE.
That's what the character is about....The Adventures of Superman.
"Truth, justice, and the American way." I'd at least like to see his American symbolism restored. That means restoring the latter part of that classic phrase that was removed in SR, making his suit vibrant again, and ensuring that there are writers who understand the values the character represented. Sure, a lot of those values seem archaic by modern standards. They still exist in the mid-west to some degree, especially amongst the baby boomer-aged crowds and up. I should know. I live in Kansas. It would be highlighting what makes Superman a unique character, and would also be quite nostalgic.
Amen.
A Superman movie should inspire, not simply promote one county over another.
I don't see extolling the American Way as promoting a country; but rather an ideal. Obama's "Middle East" speech pretty much did the same thing.
Dave_W
06-23-2009, 07:27 AM
"Truth, justice, and the American way."
Not to put any Americans down or spark a row, but the "American way" hasn't meant what it used to in recent times, I think that's why Singer omitted it from SR. Hopefully recent political changes can turn that around.
I understand Supes being a national icon and all and I respect that, but I'd rather he stood for what's honest and decent in mankind. I'd like to think it's not just Americans that are like that. :woot:
GreenKToo
06-23-2009, 07:34 AM
I'd prefer it be a patriotic adventure. That likely won't happen, because they'll want other countries to feel included under Superman's shadow. The stomping down of patriotism began with the darkening down of the colors of his suit in SR. It's sad. For the sake of misguided political correctness, they sacrifice any sense of national individualism.
I agree. S.R. was waaaay to PC. Being patriotic certainly didnt hurt Spider-Man much now did it.
You dont just ignore what made a character so popular to begin with.
The next one I hope embraces that.
Man of Tomorrow
06-23-2009, 07:36 AM
I noticed that DC usually has deeper purposes and second genres to alot of their characters
Batman....superhero gangster saga
Wonder Woman....superhero swords and sandals story
Green Lantern...superhero space epic
The Flash.....superhero adventure comedy
Aquaman.....superhero underwater King Arthur
How can a person make Superman be more than just a regular action superhero movie?
Superman kind of has a second genre as a journalist film and also a third genre of a romance tale. What would be needed to bring these things to the screen?
Superman Returns turned Superman into Jesus.
That was their hook to making him different from the other heroes; elevating him to a god among men.
It didn't work.
But I think they should take that concept and tone it down a notch;
Make the world very realistic and Nolan-esque with Superman standing out as an unrealistic character in a realistic world.
What would our world be like if someone like Superman appeared?
How would everything change? Humans tend to fear change at first; it's built into our nature.
I think it's a good way to bring the character into the 21st century.
Anubis
06-23-2009, 07:44 AM
If you wanna make the next Superman movie deep, then all you have to do is establish a proper Lex Luthor. Singer dropped the ball big time going with the Hackman Esque Lex. You'd think it would be simple. Lex is the smartest man in the world. A man who built himself up from nothing to become probably the greatest representation of Human Achievement. Then along comes this Alien. This, God, who can move faster than bullets and leap tall buildings in a single bound, which leads him to ask, what good is human achievement in the face of other worldly might? So, he takes it upon himself to rid the world of this Alien. Cuz if Superman is there to catch them when they fall, then they will never be able to get themselves back up. You know, a Lex who has a point. A Lex you could almost sympathize with. That's how you do a proper Superman movie, by making sure that his greatest enemy isn't some real estate scamming, wig wearing, hooker with a heart of gold banging, idiot.
Superman Returns turned Superman into Jesus.
That was their hook to making him different from the other heroes; elevating him to a god among men.
It didn't work.
But I think they should take that concept and tone it down a notch;
Make the world very realistic and Nolan-esque with Superman standing out as an unrealistic character in a realistic world.
What would our world be like if someone like Superman appeared?
How would everything change?
I think it's a good way to bring the character into the 21st century.
See here is where Marvel gets it with their films.
The question is mute if Superman is just one of many superheroes that co-exist in a film universe. Superman as Jesus/Saviour is irrelevant.
Anubis
06-23-2009, 07:48 AM
You are aware that Marvel is building there own Film Universe....right?
Man of Tomorrow
06-23-2009, 07:51 AM
The question is mute if Superman is just one of many superheroes that co-exist in a film universe. Superman as Jesus/Saviour is irrelevant.
That's why Superman is generally the first to appear.
And even if Superman debuts after Batman, Batman is just a crime fighting street vigilante; not a super-powered being of the likes that no human has witnessed before.
which leads him to ask, what good is human achievement in the face of other worldly might? So, he takes it upon himself to rid the world of this Alien. Cuz if Superman is there to catch them when they fall, then they will never be able to get themselves back up. You know, a Lex who has a point. A Lex you could almost sympathize with.
Lex should never have anyone's interest but his own as motivation, and should never ever be a sympathetic character. Superman is everything right about the American Way; Lex is everything wrong!
You are aware that Marvel is building there own Film Universe....right?
Of course........
Dave_W
06-23-2009, 07:55 AM
Superman is everything right about the American Way; Lex is everything wrong!
QFT. Lex should epitomise corporate greed and an undying thirst for power. Supes should be the complete opposite; selfless, noble, decent and always looking out for the little man.
Man of Tomorrow
06-23-2009, 07:57 AM
Yeah, making Lex into a sympathetic character kinda ruined Rosenbaum's final scene in Smallville to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHmJUtOhTAM
"I love you like a brother Clark... I'm sorry.."
It weakens Luthor's sense of ruthlessness and menace.
Anubis
06-23-2009, 09:54 AM
Lex should never have anyone's interest but his own as motivation, and should never ever be a sympathetic character. Superman is everything right about the American Way; Lex is everything wrong!
Never said you should ignore the fact that his true motivations are rather selfish. Metropolis was his city. He built it up to what it is today, and then along comes this Alien, and all of a sudden he's not important. The way he sees it, if he's not important anymore, then Humanity isn't important anymore. That's the beauty of Lex. He's deep and yet, shallow as hell.
I noticed that DC usually has deeper purposes and second genres to alot of their characters
Batman....superhero gangster saga
Wonder Woman....superhero swords and sandals story
Green Lantern...superhero space epic
The Flash.....superhero adventure comedy
Aquaman.....superhero underwater King Arthur
How can a person make Superman be more than just a regular action superhero movie?
sci-fi
I'd prefer it be a patriotic adventure. That likely won't happen, because they'll want other countries to feel included under Superman's shadow. The stomping down of patriotism began with the darkening down of the colors of his suit in SR. It's sad. For the sake of misguided political correctness, they sacrifice any sense of national individualism.
Oh god... plz no!
ChickenScratch
06-23-2009, 10:48 AM
I think Superman should be brought back to being an aspirational and inspirational hero in the movies. I wanna see kids completely enthralled by him, gathering around him when he lands, I want him to be the example of virtue and goodness everyone wants to grow up to be. To me my favorite Superman scenes were always the ones where he interacts with children.
sci-fi
Star Trek or 2001?
NotFadeAway
06-23-2009, 12:11 PM
This is why the next movie should portray Clark Kent as the real person and Superman as the disguise. A movie about a man with the powers of a God who willingly decides to help make the world a better place can be pretty powerful.
Blackman
06-23-2009, 12:17 PM
how could a person show that in a film. In a comic its easier because of internal monlouges but in films I think it would be difficult
RachelDawes
06-23-2009, 02:29 PM
how could a person show that in a film. In a comic its easier because of internal monlouges but in films I think it would be difficult
I think Clark's going to have to go back to the Kent house often to talk to his parents about his mission. They can be his Alfred.
Andy C.
06-23-2009, 02:52 PM
In my opinion, the best way to rekindle interest in Superman is to beef up both aspects of his persona. Yes, it's important to make Clark more identifiable, more 'human,' but it's equally important to make Superman stand out from all the other capes. That means playing up the mythological overtones--not just being content to make him Jesus in a cape; Superman and his villains should feel like their own distinct pantheon. That means a Lex Luthor that is so brilliant that his death-traps and inventions might as well be magic, coming up with mind-blowing technology as casually as he would fill out a grocery list. That means a Zod or a Bizarro or a Brainiac that could very convincingly exterminate all life on Earth if left unchecked. That means crises that put at risk not just a few city blocks, but the very fabric of reality. Point is, if Superman is going to be as powerful as everyone pictures him as being, he should only be taking on stuff that only someone that powerful can handle. So when they say "this looks like a job for Superman," they really mean it.
On the other end of that, the more fantastical and over-the-top Supes is, the more down-trodden and mundane Clark should be. Maybe not playing up the slapstick as much as they did in the Donner movies, but definitely making him the third wheel of every conversation, the guy that nobody dislikes but that everyone forgot to invite to their Christmas party anyway. Clark has to be such an everyman that not even the audience is convinced that he and Superman are really the same guy.
It'd be difficult to pull off, but not impossible. All-Star Superman did it and scored big. Taking the same mentality--if not the same plot--to the big screen would take some doing, but I think it could be done.
The Guard
06-23-2009, 09:10 PM
I don't see extolling the American Way as promoting a country; but rather an ideal. Obama's "Middle East" speech pretty much did the same thing.
I see. Then we don't need to hear the words "The American Way".
"Truth, justice, and the American way." I'd at least like to see his American symbolism restored. That means restoring the latter part of that classic phrase that was removed in SR, making his suit vibrant again, and ensuring that there are writers who understand the values the character represented. Sure, a lot of those values seem archaic by modern standards. They still exist in the mid-west to some degree, especially amongst the baby boomer-aged crowds and up. I should know. I live in Kansas. It would be highlighting what makes Superman a unique character, and would also be quite nostalgic.
So you want Superman to be Superman, basically.
It's bold, that's what I like about it.
I see. Then we don't need to hear the words "The American Way".
Very true.....but
"That which we call a rose.........."
When qualified by Truth and Justice I feel it's clear that the words "and the American Way" refer specifically to the lofty ideals, so go ahead and replace them with "and the right of all individuals to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
However it's fixing something that isn't broken.
Dave_W
06-24-2009, 07:31 AM
"and the right of all individuals to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Is it only America that has these values? Is America the only democratic country out there? I find that mentality quite insulting. Although Supes is an American icon, he should stand for everyone.
GreenKToo
06-24-2009, 07:56 AM
Is it only America that has these values? Is America the only democratic country out there? I find that mentality quite insulting. Although Supes is an American icon, he should stand for everyone.
Thats why I love reading Red Son, thats a great ''what if'' read.
Superman Prime
06-24-2009, 08:03 AM
I have the Red Son symbol tattooed on my right upper arm. Got it back in March for my birthday.
Is it only America that has these values? Is America the only democratic country out there? I find that mentality quite insulting. Although Supes is an American icon, he should stand for everyone.
Not currently of course, but America first gave voice to them.
Again it is semantics, go ahead and replace it, but in the end it's a catch phrase, and "the American Way" just rolls of the tongue better than "and the current mindset of many of the nations of the world, regarding the rights of all individuals."
Man of Tomorrow
06-24-2009, 08:16 AM
This is why the next movie should portray Clark Kent as the real person and Superman as the disguise. A movie about a man with the powers of a God who willingly decides to help make the world a better place can be pretty powerful.
And again... how can Superman even work as a disguise?
I agree we need Clark as a real person.. but in public he needs the reporter disguise to throw people off from thinking he's Superman.
DavidTyler
06-24-2009, 10:15 AM
And again... how can Superman even work as a disguise?
I agree we need Clark as a real person.. but in public he needs the reporter disguise to throw people off from thinking he's Superman.
You're right up to a point.....
But, by that same token, Superman is also a disguise. He must pretend to be calm, collected, and capable whenever in the midst of the general public - even when conflicted with doubt.
The thing I mean when I say that Clark needs to be the real person is that Clark is the toned down version of Superman. He's the one that get's to make jokes and relax. NO MORE of that nervous and jerky Clark that so many think he needs to be to cover his tracks. In fact, the more Clark stands out in a crowd, the more likely it is for everyone to figure it all out. It's best for Clark to be as a real a person as possible while letting Superman be more or a pose when dealing with the public.
MAN O STEEL
06-24-2009, 11:33 AM
I like how Johnathan kent in Smallville spoke of Clark & what he'd become. To me that's superman.
"You are going to touch the lives of so many people, not just as a man but as a symbol. Your a symbol of Peace, your a symbol of Justice".
That right there describes Superman to a 'T' without ever having to throw in your face that Superman stands for "THE AMERICAN WAY!!" & that he belong's to america. I think what people outside of America, like me hate most is that Superman didn't become who he is because he was raised by American parents but because he was raised by good parents & good people & you can find that anywhere, in any country.
Steve
MAN O STEEL
06-24-2009, 11:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugrXrvJFTOs&feature=channel_page
I also think this video describes Superman well also. Sure it's smallville but the video still sells it well.
Steve
MAN O STEEL
06-24-2009, 11:43 AM
"Metropolis has millions of people walking the streets, each one of them watching for a miracle. To change thier lives, to give them hope......., YOU ARE THAT MIRACLE!"
Superman is an ideal, a symbol, a miracle. It's that simple, show that on screen & you'll strike gold. Superman is not an overtly complicated character, what he stands for is so simple & pure that I found so hard to understand how Singer F'd it up so bad.
Steve
"Metropolis has millions of people walking the streets, each one of them watching for a miracle. To change thier lives, to give them hope......., YOU ARE THAT MIRACLE!"
It's all semantics....but I find the use of the word miracle as distasteful as some find "the American way". The connotation with miracle and religion is obvious, and not where Superman belongs.
What you need to show on screen and in any superhero film is that our world and it's people are very capable of creating their own "miracles", and that Superman is not the saviour, he is a player on mankind's team, a very important player to be sure, but no more or less than that.
He is a symbol to be sure, but only one of many hundreds of thousands of examples.
Anubis
06-24-2009, 12:30 PM
Yeah, that's pretty much the way Supes feels about it, but that's not the way the public sees him.
Mostpowerful
06-24-2009, 12:50 PM
sci-fi
A Superman movie can be epic sci fi, romance, drama, fantasy, action, adventure, and maybe more.
Star Trek or 2001?
The best of both worlds.
This is why the next movie should portray Clark Kent as the real person and Superman as the disguise. A movie about a man with the powers of a God who willingly decides to help make the world a better place can be pretty powerful.
I'm sure people wanna see the adventures of SUPERMAN, hence the title of the movies. He IS the star of the show.
Mostpowerful
06-24-2009, 12:55 PM
"Metropolis has millions of people walking the streets, each one of them watching for a miracle. To change thier lives, to give them hope......., YOU ARE THAT MIRACLE!"
Superman is an ideal, a symbol, a miracle. It's that simple, show that on screen & you'll strike gold. Superman is not an overtly complicated character, what he stands for is so simple & pure that I found so hard to understand how Singer F'd it up so bad.
Steve
He didn't, IMO. The movie got pretty good reviews and made a lot of $ for a character-driven one. The movie only needed more action to satisfy general audiences for the most part.
It is only fans on the internet who complain and obssess about the details.
Yeah, that's pretty much the way Supes feels about it, but that's not the way the public sees him.
By public do you mean the theater audience or the "public" within the film?
For me it all depends on how he is written and presented on film. In STM he replaces the power of the lost engine, but it is the pilots who fly the plane....teamwork.
Dave_W
06-24-2009, 02:10 PM
It's in a Batman/Superman issue where Batman says something like..."He's a God living among mortals, but he doesn't realise it". Or words to that effect.
Metropolis looks up to him like a God, but to him he's just Kal-El, doing what he can to save people. To him he doesn't see himself as a miracle, but he's the only one of his kind, so to us he would be!
RachelDawes
06-24-2009, 03:19 PM
Very true.....but
"That which we call a rose.........."
When qualified by Truth and Justice I feel it's clear that the words "and the American Way" refer specifically to the lofty ideals, so go ahead and replace them with "and the right of all individuals to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
However it's fixing something that isn't broken.
I don't want "and the American way" in his slogan for this reason:
Is it only America that has these values? Is America the only democratic country out there? I find that mentality quite insulting. Although Supes is an American icon, he should stand for everyone.
Quite frankly, I think justice can cover the concept of people being entitled to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." For years, Superman just stood for Truth and Justice and his fans were fine with that. I'd rather go back to that.
Star Trek or 2001?
Superman is science fiction by definition. The character was created as sci-fi , but success was so big that created his own genre.. super-hero.
Superman has all elements os sci-fi. Civilization from another planet, travels across the universe, super powered hero fighting against strange enemies (brainiac, metallo, etc).
Sci-fi isnt about just spaceships (star trek, 2001, star wars). There is other types of sci-fi (robots, travel through time, high tecnology, etc)
Superman has almost everything.
Anubis
06-25-2009, 01:08 AM
While I wouldn't start off a franchise with it, i'd love to see a War World adaptation.
Superman is science fiction by definition. The character was created as sci-fi , but success was so big that created his own genre.. super-hero.
Superman has all elements os sci-fi. Civilization from another planet, travels across the universe, super powered hero fighting against strange enemies (brainiac, metallo, etc).
Sci-fi isnt about just spaceships (star trek, 2001, star wars). There is other types of sci-fi (robots, travel through time, high tecnology, etc)
Superman has almost everything.
My comparison of the two is not based on the hardware, but rather the substance. Star Trek being a sci-fi adventure genre, and 2001 being a more cerebral Sci-Fi approach.
If the focus of a Superman film were to be the sci-fi aspect of the character I believe it would belong in the Star Trek sci-fi arena.
Dave_W
06-25-2009, 07:52 PM
THESE capture the essence of what a Superman film should be about! If they can turn these two pictures into a 2 hour movie and still maintain their essence, it'll be dynamite!
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8829/smallvillefinish.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5674/metropolisfinish.jpg
These two just ooze everything that makes a Superman film great!
JamalYIgle
06-25-2009, 08:45 PM
THESE capture the essence of what a Superman film should be about! If they can turn these two pictures into a 2 hour movie and still maintain their essence, it'll be dynamite!
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8829/smallvillefinish.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5674/metropolisfinish.jpg
These two just ooze everything that makes a Superman film great!
they already did.
http://www.dvdvideo.co.nz/shop/images/superman_the_movie_BR.jpg
i'm being a bit snarky but it's true. People may want to make fun of the campier elements but Superman the movie captured the essence of Superman as a character. Any new production will be unfairly compared to it, just like Superman Returns was.
The Guard
06-25-2009, 09:19 PM
Yeah, the only "essence" those pictures shows...it's been done. That's just the very basics.
Excel
06-25-2009, 10:46 PM
I know for real; the next superman film has to be something DIFFERENT. Geez.
dark_b
06-26-2009, 03:28 AM
i agree. that pics tells me ''been done already''
do some fans want a remake or what?
Dave_W
06-26-2009, 01:11 PM
Yeah I can see what you're all saying, but I meant if the movie could capture the FEELING of those pictures it would be ace. I'm not saying copy the scenes or anything, as that's already been done, but if it should capture the 'feel good' factor. Kinda like Iron Man and Spidey, instead of the more gritty Incredible Hulk and Dark Knight.
The Guard
06-26-2009, 01:30 PM
What feeling? Golden Age and the movies rolled together? Chalk drawings.
They're just pictures. Lois is slightly hotter than usual...I don't get much "feel good" from them beyond that. It looks like the basics of Superman.
GreenKToo
06-26-2009, 01:55 PM
Its hard to say what they need to do. Just look at this site, so many of us here want something different.
Some still want a sequel, some want a reboot but with routh, and some want a reboot with all new actors.
IMVHO, which means absolutely nothing, I think they'll reboot in a couple ( or more) years with ALL NEW ACTORS and, I think it will also have a new score to separate itself from the previous films.
And quite honestly, unless lightning strikes or something, I doubt we hear anything Superman related for a long while yet. It sucks, but imo, everything points to development hell once again.
The Guard
06-26-2009, 02:44 PM
They need to find a balance. It's really that simple. Someone with a great knowledge of Superman, Pre-Cris, Post-Crisis, movie and comics, needs to come along who can not just put what THEY want on film, but find a balance amongst all the source materials to put the best distilled version of Superman they can onscreen.
Crook
06-26-2009, 03:40 PM
Its hard to say what they need to do. Just look at this site, so many of us here want something different.
Some still want a sequel, some want a reboot but with routh, and some want a reboot with all new actors.
It's pretty easy to choose. The latter yields the highest possibility of the best reaction. The other two hold baggage from previous endeavors, and starts off with alienating non-fans of those products from the get-go.
They need to find a balance. It's really that simple. Someone with a great knowledge of Superman, Pre-Cris, Post-Crisis, movie and comics, needs to come along who can not just put what THEY want on film, but find a balance amongst all the source materials to put the best distilled version of Superman they can onscreen.
And one more key ingredient: make it modern aka fresh.
RachelDawes
06-26-2009, 08:27 PM
Its hard to say what they need to do. Just look at this site, so many of us here want something different.
Some still want a sequel, some want a reboot but with routh, and some want a reboot with all new actors.
IMVHO, which means absolutely nothing, I think they'll reboot in a couple ( or more) years with ALL NEW ACTORS and, I think it will also have a new score to separate itself from the previous films.
And quite honestly, unless lightning strikes or something, I doubt we hear anything Superman related for a long while yet. It sucks, but imo, everything points to development hell once again.
Even though I like Routh, this is what I see happening too.
The Guard
06-27-2009, 10:21 AM
And one more key ingredient: make it modern aka fresh.
To a point. They need balance in all aspects. They need to balance the older portrayals of the character and the classic feel with modern elements.
Webhead2006
06-27-2009, 02:25 PM
Its hard to say what they need to do. Just look at this site, so many of us here want something different.
Some still want a sequel, some want a reboot but with routh, and some want a reboot with all new actors.
IMVHO, which means absolutely nothing, I think they'll reboot in a couple ( or more) years with ALL NEW ACTORS and, I think it will also have a new score to separate itself from the previous films.
And quite honestly, unless lightning strikes or something, I doubt we hear anything Superman related for a long while yet. It sucks, but imo, everything points to development hell once again.
Yes so true that it sucks for supes fans with all the waiting and nothing going on stuff.
mjbull23
06-27-2009, 06:37 PM
They have some very difficult decisions that have to be made.
There are so many possible paths we can follow here.
1) Continue on with the Donnerverse, Keep Routh, put out a story that is tightly paced, ramp up the action....(Sequel or Reboot)
2.) Burn it all down. Recast everyone. Start afresh. New take on Supes, new intrepretation of the character, his methodologies, his duality, new musical scores, new costume....(Reboot)
3.) Smallville the Movie - For all the TW Fans out here.
There are multiple variations to every one of those aforementioned options of course.
Some want Routh Back, but with a new slate. Some want Routh back in a sequel. Some want a new actor for the Role...
There's no way to draw a concensus opinion amongst the hardcore superman fans. So forget it. We are too divided. Pander to the general audiences.
The challenge is seperating audiences from their preconceived notions of the past, and presenting the character in a new light. But as other's have said, there are core themes that must still remain with the character.
Romance, Hope, Justice.
RachelDawes
06-27-2009, 08:29 PM
They have some very difficult decisions that have to be made.
There are so many possible paths we can follow here.
1) Continue on with the Donnerverse, Keep Routh, put out a story that is tightly paced, ramp up the action....(Sequel or Reboot)
2.) Burn it all down. Recast everyone. Start afresh. New take on Supes, new intrepretation of the character, his methodologies, his duality, new musical scores, new costume....(Reboot)
3.) Smallville the Movie - For all the TW Fans out here.
There are multiple variations to every one of those aforementioned options of course.
Some want Routh Back, but with a new slate. Some want Routh back in a sequel. Some want a new actor for the Role...
There's no way to draw a concensus opinion amongst the hardcore superman fans. So forget it. We are too divided. Pander to the general audiences.
The challenge is seperating audiences from their preconceived notions of the past, and presenting the character in a new light. But as other's have said, there are core themes that must still remain with the character.
Romance, Hope, Justice.
WB should do that anyway, even if the fans were all on the same page. It's the GA that's going to make or break the movie. Now we just need to think of what the GA would like to see.
Webhead2006
06-27-2009, 09:19 PM
Ya maybe they should do with superman what paramount and jj did with trek make it for the general fans but also please the hardcore fans with keeping the standard mythos things going, while adding their own spin on things.
My comparison of the two is not based on the hardware, but rather the substance. Star Trek being a sci-fi adventure genre, and 2001 being a more cerebral Sci-Fi approach.
If the focus of a Superman film were to be the sci-fi aspect of the character I believe it would belong in the Star Trek sci-fi arena.
Oh, ok. Yes, definetly sci-fi adventure.
daywalker2007
06-28-2009, 12:59 PM
what we need in the next superman movie is a freaking giant robot,
then we can the box office money explode!
metallo here we come!
Webhead2006
06-28-2009, 01:44 PM
well if metallo ever makes it to a supes movie, i rather have it be human size metallo and not a freakin huge skyscrapper sized metallo.
GreenKToo
06-28-2009, 02:42 PM
WB should do that anyway, even if the fans were all on the same page. It's the GA that's going to make or break the movie. Now we just need to think of what the GA would like to see.
And that really wouldnt be hard for them to do imo. They should have a look at the most recent, successful CB films and see what made them tick.
What was it about Spider-Man that made it such a hit with the public? What about I.M.? Batman?
Was it because they were new? Imo, I dont think so. If that were the case then B.B. wouldnt have created such an interest in Batman again that lead on to it's sequel, TDK..
I think in Spider-man and I.M.'s case, it was simple. They were good films. The Director chose to make them bright, upbeat, and action filled, and they pretty much stayed true to the characters and source material with MINOR exceptions of course. Regardless of any changes tho, the public ate them up. Three Spidey films and a soon to be released sequel to IM dont lie.
As for TDK, well that was more of an event than a film. A perfect storm of a film. The anticipation for it reminded me of what happened with the first Star Wars back in the 70's. just friggin' unreal. No way should we dare to hope for that kinda anticipation with Superman, that wont happen, but there shouldnt be any reason we couldnt have, or get, I.M. or Spider-man type hype.
It will all fall on the directors shoulders to get it right. And I really hope they (the WB) hire a director that creates instant hype with his name with us AND the public right from the start.
And I pray to God he gets Superman.
Webhead2006
06-28-2009, 02:52 PM
Hopefully they can find that best suited guy.
Frodo
06-28-2009, 03:33 PM
I think the main thing to move beyond the Donner film and SV. They were good but you can't be bound to them. It's time to move on.
Examine unexplored area's of the mythos. Move Superman beyond the two dimensional boy scout and really give the characters humanity and depth. Don't use Lex or Zod as the villians in the first film for once. Use villians such as Metallo, Brainac, Parasite, Darkseid , Morgan Edge . Villians that could pose a real threat to Superman and Humanity.
Bring the characters into today's world. Our world . Not a 1940's sort of world but 2010 or 2011.
How is the character still relevant ? Why does the world need Superman? ...and I mean real answer to that question not just the question itself i.e Superman Returns. How would the world react to someone like Superman? What kind of people would Clark Kent and Lois Lane really be in the 21st century ?
I think those questions need to be dealt with to make the film more then just a Superhero film. Overall , I think we need to get beyond the simplicity of the characters represented in the last few films and really make these characters flesh and blood people .
If you think about, Clark has to lie to the woman he loves about everything he is. You've got to think that for someone like Clark it would be a painful thing to do and he would feel guilt about it. Not the wink and a smile to the audience like we've seen in the past. He carries the burden and the legecy of an entire civilization on his shoulder's. He's trying to live up to the expectations of two species : Kryptonian's and Humans. He's alien but in his heart he is a human and at times the two don't reconcile. He is afraid of letting people down. He has god like abilities.
I mean with all of that baggage he should be one of the most interesting characters not the simplist as he appears to be headed from SV and SR. I think they really need to work with that .
NotFadeAway
06-28-2009, 07:11 PM
You're right up to a point.....
But, by that same token, Superman is also a disguise. He must pretend to be calm, collected, and capable whenever in the midst of the general public - even when conflicted with doubt.
The thing I mean when I say that Clark needs to be the real person is that Clark is the toned down version of Superman. He's the one that get's to make jokes and relax. NO MORE of that nervous and jerky Clark that so many think he needs to be to cover his tracks. In fact, the more Clark stands out in a crowd, the more likely it is for everyone to figure it all out. It's best for Clark to be as a real a person as possible while letting Superman be more or a pose when dealing with the public.
Thank You, this needs to be the mindset going into the next film.
And besides, there have already been movies with Superman as the real person and Clark as the disguise. It's only smart and fair to go the other way now.
Webhead2006
06-28-2009, 07:23 PM
That is some good points, i said it before i would really like to get out of the donnor setting and get more modern 80s/90s mythos brought in like corp lex, etc........ I dont want to see supes film history to be forever the donnor universe. yes i do like donnor's first film and superman 2, i can care less for 3,4, and SR.
\S/JcDc\S/
06-30-2009, 02:08 PM
They need to find a balance. It's really that simple. Someone with a great knowledge of Superman, Pre-Cris, Post-Crisis, movie and comics, needs to come along who can not just put what THEY want on film, but find a balance amongst all the source materials to put the best distilled version of Superman they can onscreen.
Honestly they could just start with Byrnes and beyond to give us the kind of movie we need.
Mostpowerful
06-30-2009, 02:13 PM
That is some good points, i said it before i would really like to get out of the donnor setting and get more modern 80s/90s mythos brought in like corp lex, etc........ I dont want to see supes film history to be forever the donnor universe. yes i do like donnor's first film and superman 2, i can care less for 3,4, and SR.
Donnor? Who's that? :huh: :oldrazz:
And you don't care about the Donnerverse? So you don't like the crystal FOS in your favorite show? lol
The Guard
06-30-2009, 02:23 PM
Honestly they could just start with Byrnes and beyond to give us the kind of movie we need.
No, they need to find a balance. Period.
Webhead2006
06-30-2009, 03:01 PM
Most i do like the crystal fos design/look. That is one element i do like that is still around from the donnor/silver age. I just dont want to see future superman movies still being stuck taking the character in the same take of the silver age material. It would be nice to get to see live action film series have corp lex/political lex, different take on who is the mask clark or superman, etc........
Mostpowerful
06-30-2009, 03:32 PM
Most i do like the crystal fos design/look. That is one element i do like that is still around from the donnor/silver age. I just dont want to see future superman movies still being stuck taking the character in the same take of the silver age material. It would be nice to get to see live action film series have corp lex/political lex, different take on who is the mask clark or superman, etc........
It's DONNER..
DavidTyler
07-01-2009, 12:18 AM
It's DONNER..
It's a TYPO.
Web has written 'Donner' before and I think we can make small allowances here for that kind of mistake.
Guard,
A balance up to a point. I want a blend.
I want Byrne's Krypton. Period...
I want the Kent's alive
I'm OK with Waid's having Clark doing some global wandering in search of his place in it.
I want the animated series Clark (w/a bit of Dean Cain and George Reeves mixed in there somehow) as well as the animated series Superman (with just the barest hint of Chris - I felt his Superman was ridiculously naive.)
I want a strong Lois ... not unlike the Lois from the animated series blended with Margot's deleted scene that was editted back into SII. I also want a bit of Teri mixed in. I love her Lois.
I want a Perry like the blustery bear of a man in the comix .. or the animated series with a bit of Lane Smith.
I want the Jimmy from the animated series or Lois & Clark.
Lex has to be Corporate Lex. There are no two ways about that. He's so brilliant that he figured out how to make himself untouchable. Marv Wolfman hit the nail on the head when reinventing the character and it totally makes sense.
but all this isn't what the thread is about. It's supposed to be about how to make this more than a superhero flick.
The answer for me is to keep the characters as real world as possible without miring us down in the doldrums of the everyday. Superman needs to be less of a boyscout and more connected to the world around him. He's seen too much to be naive. The plot needs to be challenging - not just to the characters but to the audience as well. I would say that the plot could stand to be topical.
And spend more time with Clark than previous films. Don't allow him to be just a cover for the guy in the cape. He should be someone we can relate to.
\S/JcDc\S/
07-01-2009, 12:24 AM
It's a TYPO.
Web has written 'Donner' before and I think we can make small allowances here for that kind of mistake.
Guard,
A balance up to a point. I want a blend.
I want Byrne's Krypton. Period...
I want the Kent's alive
I'm OK with Waid's having Clark doing some global wandering in search of his place in it.
I want the animated series Clark (w/a bit of Dean Cain and George Reeves mixed in there somehow) as well as the animated series Superman (with just the barest hint of Chris - I felt his Superman was ridiculously naive.)
I want a strong Lois ... not unlike the Lois from the animated series blended with Margot's deleted scene that was editted back into SII. I also want a bit of Teri mixed in. I love her Lois.
I want a Perry like the blustery bear of a man in the comix .. or the animated series with a bit of Lane Smith.
I want the Jimmy from the animated series or Lois & Clark.
Lex has to be Corporate Lex. There are no two ways about that. He's so brilliant that he figured out how to make himself untouchable. Marv Wolfman hit the nail on the head when reinventing the character and it totally makes sense.
but all this isn't what the thread is about. It's supposed to be about how to make this more than a superhero flick.
The answer for me is to keep the characters as real world as possible without miring us down in the doldrums of the everyday. Superman needs to be less of a boyscout and more connected to the world around him. He's seen too much to be naive. The plot needs to be challenging - not just to the characters but to the audience as well. I would say that the plot could stand to be topical.
And spend more time with Clark than previous films. Don't allow him to be just a cover for the guy in the cape. He should be someone we can relate to.
Nicely said.
However on the point of balance, through Brynes and beyond... previous adaptions were tweaked and updated already. No real need to go that far into exploration. It needs to be a modern take. PERIOD
Here's an idea, don't make Superman so damn powerful. So many viewers don't like his character because he is basically an unchallenged god. Also Luthor needs to be the central villain with various clones that Superman has to stop at different times.
Webhead2006
07-01-2009, 12:55 AM
that is what i would like take byrne-current stuff and find that right balance of what each of those eras made the character so good and go there. As for donnor/donner yea it was a typo, sometimes i type a message to quickly and didnt notice i made the mistake.
GreenKToo
07-01-2009, 07:50 AM
Here's an idea, don't make Superman so damn powerful. So many viewers don't like his character because he is basically an unchallenged god. Also Luthor needs to be the central villain with various clones that Superman has to stop at different times.
I agree to an extent, but I dont want him depowered to the point that he looks too weak tho.
IMO, his strength level/limit in the next film should be somewhere in the neighborhood of lifting something like an aircraft carrier or a supertanker. Thats still hella strong, just not Island heaving strong.
And when he does lift objects as heavy as what I mentioned above, it should really show him straining. I'm talking beads of sweat on his face type of straining.
We've had the godlike superman in several films now, maybe its time they bring him down a notch or so in the next film so the public can relate to him. They are the ones who will make or break the film after all, not us.
dark_b
07-01-2009, 09:48 AM
hard to say how powerful he should be . but not like in SR
Webhead2006
07-01-2009, 10:22 AM
Yea there is so many ways they can go about his power levels in future films.
The Batman
07-01-2009, 10:56 AM
No, they need to find a balance. Period.
QFT
Its interesting that following this post, people continue on with the "I WANT this" or the "it has to be done THIS way" posts like its some surefire way of making a hit movie.
GreenKToo
07-01-2009, 01:17 PM
Everybody has their own ideas about what they want to see in the next one.
The one thing that most of us do agree on is that we want a supervillain and we want a couple of knock down drag out fights.
RachelDawes
07-01-2009, 04:29 PM
Here's an idea, don't make Superman so damn powerful. So many viewers don't like his character because he is basically an unchallenged god. Also Luthor needs to be the central villain with various clones that Superman has to stop at different times.
Superman's powers will probably have to be toned down a bit, just because if he fights a supervillain of equal strength their battle would destroy the earth.
QFT
Its interesting that following this post, people continue on with the "I WANT this" or the "it has to be done THIS way" posts like its some surefire way of making a hit movie.
I don't see any problem with saying "I WANT this" since everyone has their own vision of what a perfect Superman movie would look like. We've all got a right to our own opinion. Saying "it has to be done THIS way" is rather silly, since multiple approaches to Superman's world could probably succeed.
The Batman
07-01-2009, 04:35 PM
Superman's powers will probably have to be toned down a bit, just because if he fights a supervillain of equal strength their battle would destroy the earth.
I don't see any problem with saying "I WANT this" since everyone has their own vision of what a perfect Superman movie would look like. We've all got a right to our own opinion. Saying "it has to be done THIS way" is rather silly, since multiple approaches to Superman's world could probably succeed.
I know people have a right to an opinion...thats why SHH has a message board. But speaking your mind while coming off as a 5 year old wont help people respect your position....
Fresh Prince
07-05-2009, 01:09 PM
For this to happen Superman needs to be treated more then just a hero. Have a villian for him to face that can go toe to toe with him so we can get the real dangers he in. Have Superman deal with being an alien trying to find his place in society. Returns they had a good idea but messed it all up with over doing it and making Superman like Jesus.
And good actors play the roles they make the movie be good not just the script it self.
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