FIRST AVENGER to feature Hydra? Invaders?

[Episode29]

http://chud.com/articles/articles/20256/1/COMIC-CON-09-CAPTAIN-AMERICA-MAY-FIGHT-ALONGSIDE-THE-INVADERS-AGAINST-HYDRA/Page1.html

Too much awesome to comprehend.

[Webhead2006]

Sounds interesting if they are going to be adding elements of those things into the film. I was just going to post this myself but was having internet connection issues.

[Rich Santoro]

Wow... I actually am a bit worried that a bunch a super powered beings will show up in FA:CA and just kill the plausibility. I hate to be a worry wart, but I would prefer that an enhanced team, of Union Jack types (highly trained, special operations, perhaps gizmo'ed troops) are put into action with Cap to address The Red Skulls special terrorist group...

[Webhead2006]

Well who are all the invaders and what are their powers? whos to say they would end up using them all maybe 2-3 could be in the film and still have a very small role.

[Philly Phanboy]

This info kind of makes me want to check around online for the story arch from the last season of Spider-Man:TAS involving Red Skull and Cap. I could see a similar "six forgotten warriors" type story involving Hydra.

[marvelrobbins]

It Is possable that the film focuses on Captain America leading The Invaders against a elite Nazi group headed by the Red Skull.

Hydra may be Included to be a recurring threat in future films.Perhapes here The Red Skull started the group during the war.I believe In regular marvel Universe Hydra did start during the War.

[Rich Santoro]

I think Hydra started in Japan... and Skull sent Strucker to either take over, or start a separate wing (can't remember for sure).

[topdog1]

Wow... I actually am a bit worried that a bunch a super powered beings will show up in FA:CA and just kill the plausibility. I hate to be a worry wart, but I would prefer that an enhanced team, of Union Jack types (highly trained, special operations, perhaps gizmo'ed troops) are put into action with Cap to address The Red Skulls special terrorist group...

I'm more than a bit worried. We need a solid Cap origin film, not a CGI video game mess. Having a Human Torch or Whizzer is a VERY bad idea. Cap's origin needs to be severely grounded in reality. This is the first time I fear for the future of these films.

The only thing that could sink Avengers would be an alien threat. Please NO Skrulls or silly crap. Marvel not learning from Iron Man's example seems strange to me.

[bunk]

If you were expecting Saving Private Rogers, the sooner you get over your disappointment, the better. It will be very much the comic book movie.

[FaT_tONle]

We better not have G.I Joe 2 on our hands... but I expected HYDRA. Here's the article:

Talking with Marvel Studios prez Kevin Feige after the astonishing Iron Man 2 panel at Comic Con, I found out some pretty fascinating news: Captain America won't be working alone in his new movie.

Feige wouldn't exactly confirm that Cap would be working with The Invaders, and in fact he gave a coy 'I don't know' when asked point blank, but he did say that there is a group that might help sell a very American film to foreign audiences.

Setting it in the Marvel version of WWII is going to open it up [to an international audience] in a big way. It'll actually end up being our most diverse and our most international film. In terms of the cast there's a group that [Cap] works with that will have an opportunity for much more international casting.

The Invaders (formerly known as the All-Winners Squad) was a super-team during WWII that counted Captain America and Bucky among its members. Also in The Invaders were British superhero Union Jack, Namor the Sub-Mariner, speedster Whizzer, The Blazing Skull, the Human Torch and even a couple of female characters, Miss America and the Silver Scorpion.

I think this means we're almost guaranteed to see Union Jack (or possibly Captain Britain thrown into the Union Jack role), but who else might be joining this team? Feige confirmed that while Fox owns the Johnny Storm Human Torch, Marvel Studios retains the rights to the android Human Torch, and Feige actually used the Torch as an example of what makes the Marvel version of WWII actually be the Marvel version of WWII (but he also said that he just wasn't sure if they would use him). , If they go with the original team members it would be very simple to change characters like Silver Scorpion or The Blazing Skull into Europeans.

What does Feige mean by the part in italics???

I get the impression that at the moment the membership of the cinematic Invaders is pretty much in flux. The only member of The Invaders who is pretty much guaranteed to be left out is Namor, who as far as I know is part of the Fantastic Four package at Fox.

While we always knew that the Red Skull would be the villain in this film, Feige namedropped a villainous organization that surprised me: Hydra, a technologically advanced terrorist group that was a staple foe of Silver Age Captain America and SHIELD. He specifically called Hydra 'an aspect of WWII that made Cap special.' In the comics Hydra isn't really active until after the Second World War, as it's headed by a number of fugitive Nazi types. Is it possible that Feige is hinting that Hydra will be set up as the villain of The Avengers during the Captain America movie? As The Avengers come out after this film, that seems plausible. I'm working on a story about the villain of The Avengers movie, and I'll talk about this more there.

Another character who could very likely turn up in The First Avenger: Captain America (and yes, that title is part of how they're selling the film internationally) is Tony Stark's dad, Howard. In Iron Man we saw Captain America's shield as an easter egg; combining stuff I saw on the set of Iron Man 2 with information gleaned from today's panel (Whiplash seems to hate Tony Stark because of the Stark family), I realized that Howard Stark has a complicated WWII backstory. Feige wouldn't confirm the character's appearance, but his reaction makes me think I'm on to something, and that Howard Stark may be something more than a cute cameo (which I think is all but guaranteed).

Interesting that Fox still has Namor rights. I thought it was at Universal or back with Marvel.

[Rich Santoro]

If you were expecting Saving Private Rogers, the sooner you get over your disappointment, the better. It will be very much the comic book movie.

Of course not... However, with the established element of seeking a high degree of plausibility, an over the top presentation of a flying, flaming android and a super-speed vampire, and a guy who looks like Johnny Storm and has the same powers... called Toro, would be a huge let down. If the want to modify the characters to make them more period-plausible-movie-versions of their comic book selves, then I can go with it.

Overall, these movies that intitiated in contemporary times (IM, TIH), represent a turning-of-the-corner in the Marvel Movie-verse... A new age of technology and enhanced human capability. CA may have been precursor to it all, but he should be considered VERY special for his time. Moreover, the current tone of these films does not lend itself to the idea that there was a team of super beings fighting on the battle field 65 years ago. It doesn't even seem as though Cap was very high profile, as Ross didn't expect Blonsky to even know about the Bio-tech force enhancement program (he was visibly surprised when Blonsky mentioned Super Soldier).

Like I admitted, I am probably just beiong a worry wart... but some of these comments get away from what I am expecting in the films. I will admit, to my understanding Thor underwent several re-writes... so this stuff just might be some of the current ideas that are being kicked around, and are not set in stone. I am hoping for proper scale.

So a team of super beings fighting HYDRA, which was not even around yet (much less in Europe), would disappoint greatly.

[FaT_tONle]

I really doubt they will use Human Torch. He was probably mentioned because he is on the team. Same with Namor, even if they had the rights to him. I am thinking the remaining heroes will be merely enhanced by whatever formulas they come up with. So basically, G.I Joe type action is what I am thinking. Could be a good thing or bad thing. But a straight up WW2 movie featuring Captain America is not going to really distinuish itself from other WW2 movies.

[chiefchirpa]

Putting too many superhero characters in the movie -> Captain America will lose his uniqueness inside a pseudo-realistic setting.

Captain America is basically America Ninja in WW2 time, but you don't want to see him too out of place when you see other "Ninjas" helping him out.

[PumpkinBombxXx]

I would like to point out Caps sheild is not in Iron Man if you have zoom on your DvD player check it out its part of a machine

[PumpkinBombxXx]

sorry double post. I cant imagine that there will be to many super powered operatives in this film thats what made Cap so special is that even thoe he was just an enhanced human he was one of the first geneticaly engineared Super Humens. Then again i said there was no way that deadpool would ever have retractable arm blades so what do i know

[Nirvana]

Damn...I don't really like these ideas. With a bunch of heroes it'll definitely take the spotlight away from Caps. For some reason I'm getting an X-Men Origins: Wolverine vibe, now...

[topdog1]

Of course not... However, with the established element of seeking a high degree of plausibility, an over the top presentation of a flying, flaming android and a super-speed vampire, and a guy who looks like Johnny Storm and has the same powers... called Toro, would be a huge let down. If the want to modify the characters to make them more period-plausible-movie-versions of their comic book selves, then I can go with it.

Overall, these movies that intitiated in contemporary times (IM, TIH), represent a turning-of-the-corner in the Marvel Movie-verse... A new age of technology and enhanced human capability. CA may have been precursor to it all, but he should be considered VERY special for his time. Moreover, the current tone of these films does not lend itself to the idea that there was a team of super beings fighting on the battle field 65 years ago. It doesn't even seem as though Cap was very high profile, as Ross didn't expect Blonsky to even know about the Bio-tech force enhancement program (he was visibly surprised when Blonsky mentioned Super Soldier).

Like I admitted, I am probably just beiong a worry wart... but some of these comments get away from what I am expecting in the films. I will admit, to my understanding Thor underwent several re-writes... so this stuff just might be some of the current ideas that are being kicked around, and are not set in stone. I am hoping for proper scale.

So a team of super beings fighting HYDRA, which was not even around yet (much less in Europe), would disappoint greatly.

Yep, that's EXACTLY the way I feel. Believe me, I'm not an uptight fanboy who can't let leave the continuity of the books. In pure film terms, Cap needs to be grounded firmly in sight of the believability line. His origin and shift to being used as a symbol for the whole country during its most trying time is rich and can stand on its own. Cap's development and sacrifice makes an epic story, you don't need a super team. Going over-the-top here would be a huge mistake by Marvel.

[topdog1]

I would like to point out Caps shield is not in Iron Man if you have zoom on your DvD player check it out its part of a machine

According to the comic book Marvel released in conjunction with the film, that was a prototype shield Stark found in his father's archive. Tony's father contributed to the Super Soldier program of WWII. Tony cannibalize part of it to use in his armor. So, it wasn't Cap's real shield (presumably that's buried with him in the ice during the movie's time frame) but it was a similar shield.

[Webhead2006]

Like said before when this article came out who knows if all thes things will happen. Mayb they will have hints of hydra forming, but not physically seen, maybe only one or two invaders characters like union jack or captain britain would be seen. Or maybe this wont happen at all and its just capt/skull-nazis for the film. I agree we dont need this to get to jamed packed with characters lik X3 or wolverine it should just be cap/bucky/skull/nazis and the other key 1940s characters that are important to cap.

[Timstuff]

Please, no Invaders! Maybe the minimal international appeal of Captain America should be Marvel's incentive not to turn this into a 200 million dollar CG mess, so that even if it makes most of its money in the US it will still make a profit.

When you introduce a superhero in a movie, the superhero needs to be what makes the world "super." If he's just one superhero amidst a big jumble of super dudes, then he stops seeming so special. I'd prefer to see the Captain America movie fairly grounded in reality save for Cap and Red Skull, who bring the fantasy element to WW2.

[Retroman]

Interesting that Fox still has Namor rights. I thought it was at Universal or back with Marvel.

They don't own the rights to that Namor as far as i know. I think it's an assumption made by writer of the article.

Posted: Fri., Jul. 18, 2008, 3:42pm PT

Sony has a fourth "Spider-Man" planned for 2011.

Universal has "Sub-Mariner," based on the undersea character Namor.

Fox is readying sequels or spinoffs based on its successful "X-Men" franchise, including one on archvillain Magneto.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117989192.html

I was suprised to read Marvel had Skrulls when Fox has Super Skrull...weird.

[chamber-music]

Awesome I would love a Union Jack cameo or supporting role in the film. Matthew Marsden from (Transformers RoF, black hawk down) for the role.

[FaT_tONle]

They don't own the rights to that Namor as far as i know. I think it's an assumption made by writer of the article.

I really doubt Namor is going to get a film at Universal so Marvel probably has him for all intensive purposes. I think Universal aquired him back in 05 or 06. Marvel can definitely re-obtain the character by the time they start production for Cap, but I really don't want Namor as an Invaders member. Not sure the public is going to buy an underwater God basically.

[bunk]

The public will buy into pretty much anything.

[NewAvenger4]

sam worthington for android human torch

[DocHoliday]

Maybe make Bucky a bit older and call him "Winter Soldier" no powers needed. Throw in Union Jack and that's enough really.

[Timstuff]

If they really wanted to troll the fanbase, they could make Bucky just be a fictional character who appears as Cap's sidekick in comic books within the movie. :hehe:

[protocida]

The Invaders could be a special black ops team led by Captain America. Each team member (Normal soldiers) receives an battle Nickname: Union Jack, Whizzer, Human Torch and Destroyer.

[Timstuff]

^ That idea actually works quite nicely. "Human torch" could be their demolitions expert. :D

[Webhead2006]

ya that could work, with maybe only union jack/captain britain having powers, did those characters have powers?

[chamber-music]

Union Jack doesn't have powers.

Captain Britains powers change depending on who is writing him although he usually has the standard power list super-strength, speed, stamina, durability,reflexes, senses, flight.

Captain Britain wasn't in the invaders or used has any history of being in WW2 in the marvel universe if I remember correctly. They should just stick with Union Jack.

[Webhead2006]

oh ok i didnt know that, so ya if their is any invaders stuff in the film i guess just using union jack would be best to go, or that idea that poster saying names of cap's unit are invaders names as a homage to those characters.

[darthlaney]

why does this news mean the Invaders - why can't it be the Howling Commandos with an international cast of the most crack soldiers from all of the WWII allies - British, Australian, French etc

[Webhead2006]

ya that could be the thing too.

[Antonello Blueberry]

The Invaders could be a special black ops team led by Captain America. Each team member (Normal soldiers) receives an battle Nickname: Union Jack, Whizzer, Human Torch and Destroyer.
That is probably the idea, a black-op team of soldiers and partisans from different European countries.

[jab1118]

Yeah I want cap to be special so nobody else in the movie should have powers. Him leading a group of bad ass solidiers will be fine if he is leading a group that has cooler powers than him then he can become the one who is boreing

[Webhead2006]

well if any one is to have any powers besides cap it should be red skull.

[Rock Sexton]

Union Jack doesn't have powers.

Captain Britains powers change depending on who is writing him although he usually has the standard power list super-strength, speed, stamina, durability,reflexes, senses, flight.

Captain Britain wasn't in the invaders or used has any history of being in WW2 in the marvel universe if I remember correctly. They should just stick with Union Jack.

Captain Britain is just far too similar of a character......especially from the outfit perspective. This is a tricky spot because I know they're very worried about international appeal, but it's hard to juggle given that the story's main character is Captin friggin' America.

[FaT_tONle]

I'd rather see Cpt. Britain in an MI:13 movie. Hopefully these superhero flicks can pick up in Europe.

[darthlaney]

Using the howling commandos brings Fury into the mix - whether you use Sam Jackson or not is the question - could you make WW2 Nick Fury his father to get around the age problem that would exist.

[Webhead2006]

well they havent gotten into the background of sam jackson's fury, and maybe they can say he was from WW2.

[Spider-ManHero12]

As I said, Hydra and Invaders is just an amazing idea, IMO. I mean, seeing them on film would be a dream come true for me. Invaders kick ass.

[Dog Brother #1]

No Invaders, unless it's in a newsreel cameo, Watchmen style. Yes to Bucky, with an eye towards doing Winter Soldier in the future. I'm on the fence about Fury. Might be a little too hard to swallow. (yeah, I know it works in the comics, but what's acceptable in comics isn't always easily transferable to celluloid). Yes to a John Slattery cameo as Howard Stark. Yes to Hydra, Red Skull, and other Nazi villain cameos (Strucker, Zola, Zemo). And yes to an R. Lee Ermey Cameo for the f of it. See the opening of Hellboy for the tone of the movie.

[Union Jack]

yeah union jack...i hope this happens..just to see the invaders in cameo on the big screen would be friggin awesome..

[cerealkiller182]

Of all the Invaders, I think Union Jack has the best chance of being well-used

[Webhead2006]

Ya probably so.

[Spider-Vader]

I'm not sure about this, unless it's characters with no powers like Union Jack.

I wonder how the audience would feel about android Torch. I'm sure there'd be confusion with the FF Torch.

[3dman27]

Captain America is basically America Ninja in WW2 time, but you don't want to see him too out of place when you see other "Ninjas" helping him out.

well put and ironic since japan home of the ninja was part of the eneemy inww2:ninja::ninja:

[chamber-music]

I'd rather see Cpt. Britain in an MI:13 movie. Hopefully these superhero flicks can pick up in Europe.
Me too I doubt it will happen but I'll keep dreaming anyway :woot:
well they havent gotten into the background of sam jackson's fury, and maybe they can say he was from WW2.
They could say Jacksons Fury along with his commandos where part of a secret black ops unit behind enemy lines amnd he came aross worked with fury or they could just ignor that connection and just pick it up from when Cap awakes in the present.

[Union Jack]

only the first union jack didnt have powers..
brian falsworth did (which he gained from thor i believe)
and joey chapman had the power pendragon in him which sees him beyond peak human.(supposedly tho he's never written that way!)

[FaT_tONle]

Using the howling commandos brings Fury into the mix - whether you use Sam Jackson or not is the question - could you make WW2 Nick Fury his father to get around the age problem that would exist.

I am still iffy about SLJ in the movie. I was always an advocate of using the 616 version for a set piece, just have Nick Fury be an alias for the SHIELD director since its inception. Infinity formula and a 90 year old SLJ just doesn't gel with me.

[Union Jack]

^ i agree...nick fury is a white grizzled dude.

i hate the sam jackson one even more due to the ultimate comics.

the shoulda used kurt russel as nick fury.

[Lucien]

I've been wondering for ages if the Invaders will feature. As long as Human Torch makes it in i'm happy. Love that guy :up:

I don't see why having a few more super-powered heroes will detract from Cap. It's his movie, they're going to show exactly why he's one of the best heroes Marvel has to offer, despite his low-level powers.

[Spider-Vader]

So Namor's rights are owned by Universal? That's good, he can appear in this then.

[3dman27]

^ i agree...nick fury is a white grizzled dude.

I hate the sam jackson one even more due to the ultimate comics.

The shoulda used kurt russel as nick fury.

qft

[NEXUS 6]

HYDRA= Yes, if it is slightly revamped to be more believable.
INVADERS= No. As sweet as they are, it would be tough from a rights standpoint. Human Torch is owned by Fox through FF. Even though it's a different character, they probably own the name. plus non-supernerd moviegoers would be confused. Namor is probably owned by somebody else too, so you're looking at an Invaders team of Cap and... The Whizzer. Not exactly movie magic, if you ask me.

[Rich Santoro]

For the Marvel-Movie-verse, I want to see the Avengers depicted as the first super-team... and Cap as the first superhero ("The First Avenger: ").

A team of the "Invaders" and characters like Namor would undo that premise entirely.

[Webhead2006]

well like some pointed out namor isnt under marvel's full rights at this time, and their could be problems with the andriod human torch. Really the only one that would end up being used is that union jack guy.

[BT18]

For the Marvel-Movie-verse, I want to see the Avengers depicted as the first super-team... and Cap as the first superhero ("The First Avenger: ").

A team of the "Invaders" and characters like Namor would undo that premise entirely.

Why would you want them to be the first super-team when they were never depicted as that in the comics? If you accept the premise that this super science and other abilities exist among people in a given world there's no reason why it wouldn't have happened until the modern day, and Vigilantism/secret identities in many ways was more possible before the communication/internet age.

[3dman27]

well said

[Dog Brother #1]

I just think that putting the invaders in the movie might take away from Cap too much. I want this movie to be Captain America, not Cap & Friends: The Movie. A mention or cameo is fine, Bucky is fine, but too many characters with too much screen time I believe will detract from the movie. Let's keep the team dynamic for the Avengers movie, please.

[cerealkiller182]

What I like about the Invaders is they can set a precedent for the Marvel universe. Nick Furys words in Iron Man about a bigger world and more heroes can start with Captain America who inspires The Invaders creation and be his replacement after his freezing thus making Cap the first masked hero. I think Union Jack mainly could work the best even though in the comics Union Jack legacy predates WWII.

[Webhead2006]

Yea i agree i dont want to see cap turned into X3 or wolverine where their was way to many characters and not enough screen time for them all. I agee for cap it should just be steve, bucky, union jack, maybe make a mention of the invaders characters or show them in just a one/two scene cameo in say a news paper clipping/newsreel.

[FaT_tONle]

After thinking about this for a bit, I actually think the Invaders would work if the whole idea is to ressurect that superhero team concept in Avengers. I am all for keeping these films as grounded and as plausible as you can without compromising the characters, but if it just Cap/Union Jack and some no-named soildiers, that's really not the Invaders. You need Namor and Android Torch. Namor would benefit by being introduced alongside a character like Cap. I also think as long as they can do enough to distinguish Android Torch from Johnny Storm, maybe give him a more primitive metallic like design, instead of making him fully organic human being, audiences could accept that. Knowing Marvel's style it will probably just be Cap, Union Jack, and some specialized soldiers. I think Thor will push the boundaries of realism anyway so eventually Marvel will have to go outside the box.

[Aesop Rocks]

So, I guess we'll be seeing a submariner? :grin:

[protocida]

No superpowered Invaders.

[Webhead2006]

Well i thought it was confirmed marvel studios at this present time doesnt retain the rights to namor, it just has tih/im/cap/doc strange/ and a few others. At most if their is any invaders it will probably just und up being cap/union jack/ and possibly andriod torch.

[FaT_tONle]

I am sure they can reacquire Namor if they really wanted to use him. Universal has not made any headway into a Namor feature film... or animated film for that matter. And they already gave up Hulk. Maybe give them like 1% of the box office or something. But it's like that Pym debate people were having in the Avengers forum. If Hanks/Janet are not in, it's not really Avengers. I don't know if I completely agree with that but it's a fair argument. Likewise, if Torch and Namor are not in, it's not the Invaders. Just some hapassed version of them more suitable for a live action feature.

[Aztec]

Namor is part of the Fantastic Four package like the Silver Surfer is. Marvel cannot use him. They can however use the android Human Torch from the Invaders.

[FaT_tONle]

Namor is part of the Fantastic Four package like the Silver Surfer is. Marvel cannot use him. They can however use the android Human Torch from the Invaders.

Namor is with Universal as debunked by Retroman. The author of the article stating Namor was with Fox obviously didn't do his homework. Marvel can reaquire Namor as the character appears to be going nowhere at Universal.

[Rich Santoro]

Why would you want them to be the first super-team when they were never depicted as that in the comics? If you accept the premise that this super science and other abilities exist among people in a given world there's no reason why it wouldn't have happened until the modern day, and Vigilantism/secret identities in many ways was more possible before the communication/internet age.

The arguement that what is in the comics can just translate to movies misses that point that the books have been around for over 60 years. I am not keen on running through 60 years of story-telling and development in just a couple of movies.

The films have a different presentation for the Marvel universe. IM showed up on the scene as something entirely new and as of yet unseen by the masses. Plus, the whole tone of the SS program and the SSS, as depicted in TIH, makes that particular event and phenomenon really stand-out. Other characters and events like the Invaders have not left a mark on the Marvel movie verse.

IM was a WOW moment... The SSS was historic... so much so that Ross has dedicated his career to re-creating the formula. Androids, other enhanced humans, mutants, don't fit for me. I prefer that those events not be there.

[BobJM]

I think it should just be Captain America and the Howling Commandos minus Fury and maybe Dum Dum (save him for a possible SHIELD film)

Captain America & Red Skull should be the only relics of WWII to be thawed out or re-enter society in an Avengers film or in later sequels.

[NEXUS 6]

For the Marvel-Movie-verse, I want to see the Avengers depicted as the first super-team... and Cap as the first superhero ("The First Avenger: ").

A team of the "Invaders" and characters like Namor would undo that premise entirely.


Exactly.