The Ultimate DC/Marvel Tournament

[Silicon Surfer]

Cyclops alone can take out the entire Outsiders team except possibly Metamorpho, depending on what form he is in. Even in a gaseous form, Scott's optic blast should still scatter it far and wide. In metal winged form, which I believe he can assume if he wants, Angel can likewise take virtually the whole team. Again Metamorpho could possibly resist and possibly Black Lightning if he has his force field up. Metamorpho is the only Outsider that is even really a factor.

[Genesis 1.0]

Thought it'd be alot closer with Metamorpho, BL, and Shaow Man. That said, gotta go with the flow on this one but in a much closer battle.

X-Men


Ladies and Gentlebeings, this one wasn't even a match as Marvel's Premiere Squad took on DC's Renegade Outsiders. DC as a whole gets one shotted by Scott Summers and Emma Frost with an easy 11-3 victory over the Batman rejuvenated team.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9959/punishermax.jpg

Punisher MAX

VS

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7171/greenarrow.jpg

Green Arrow

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Olie

[Ace of Knaves]

It pains me to say it, but Frank.

[Sparta*]

hasen't this matchup been done b4?

[Silicon Surfer]

Don't know the Max version of Punisher but while I like GA, you don't take a bow to a gunfight. Punisher ftw.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

, you don't take a bow to a gunfight. .

Unless you're GA! Or Hawkeye, or Red Arrow, or Shado, or Connor, or Arrowette, or any other bow based hero that's escaping me right now. They do it all the time.

[[A]]

Green. Effin'. Arrow.

[SuperFerret]

Ollie.

[Ace of Knaves]

Hows he gonna beat Frank though? Frank is the kinda guy who would get shot with a few arrows, then just pull em out and keep going.

Whilst he's got an M-60, grenades, 45s etc.

[SuperFerret]

The same way he takes out everyone else. Stuns them with his epic facial hair and then shoves a few arrows up their ass.

[Ace of Knaves]

Admittedly the goatee could distract Frank for a mo. It is very nice facial hair :up:

[Anubis]

Frank wouldn't kill him though. He tends not to kill the costumed good guy set. Either way, I don't think he could take Ollie....unless he had prep time.

[Majic Walrus]

Green Arrow all the way. Even if Frank does have some reason to go after him Green Arrow would drop him too easily.

[Silicon Surfer]

Unless you're GA! Or Hawkeye, or Red Arrow, or Shado, or Connor, or Arrowette, or any other bow based hero that's escaping me right now. They do it all the time.

You forgot Merlyn although he is a villain.

[PaleRider]

Frank.

[Hound55]

Damn, lost my last post here...

Basically I said Frank because there were no loation stipulations which means I assume its occuring in an arena.

Give Ollie some cover and this becomes a different story entirely.

[J'adore]

Frank.

[Hound55]

Hows he gonna beat Frank though? Frank is the kinda guy who would get shot with a few arrows, then just pull em out and keep going.

Whilst he's got an M-60, grenades, 45s etc.
The standard arrows aren't the issue though... That's the thing. And what Castle brings to the table is a lot more obvious than Ollie... Ollie's arsenal is a literal bag of tricks...

But I still say Frank due to lack of cover available in an arena-based bout.

[Docker2.0]

Frank. Completely underrated tactician.

[Genesis 1.0]

You are correct in that it's a basic arena format with no set location. You give Ollie cover and he goes sharpshooter and you give Frank cover and he starts lobbing grenades and setting landmines or some shiz.

As for the Bow vs Gun deal, neither of these guys are the typical class they tend to run into in the course of their lives. Olle's no idiot stringing plain wood and Frank's not a Star City thug.

Throw into the mix that both of these guys have a habit of blurring the 'good guy line' and you've got one hell of a fight. In the end, I'm going Punisher because it's going to take him a hit to probably blow something OFF and his weapons have a higher tendency of doing just that. Either way he's going to look like a f'n porcupine before it's all said and done.

Punisher

9-5 Punisher

[Hound55]

I gave one example of cover where Frank would still win in the post I lost and that was in a system of caves where he could bring part of he place down on Ollie's head...

Other than that I'm thinking with cover = Ollie
Without cover = Frank

And with no stipulations I've got to think Frank, even though I think there's more situations that favour Queen over Castle...

[Genesis 1.0]

Street Level Badasses clash in a battle of tactical brutality as Star City's Green Arrow takes on the one and only Punisher. Explosive arrows, live ammunitiion, lots of live grenades, results in Ollie resembling Swiss Cheese as Frank Castle tops 'em with a clear 9-5 victory.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2199/brainiacoriginal.jpg

Brainiac

VS

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4631/drdoom.jpg

Dr. Doom

[SuperFerret]

Doom

[Johnny Blaze]

Dr. Doom

[[A]]

Dr Doom.

[Majic Walrus]

How much prep time are we talking?

[Genesis 1.0]

None.

3-0 Dr. Doom

[Silicon Surfer]

Brainiac

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Doom

[SuperFerret]

Lack of any prep-time favors Doom more than previously.

[Majic Walrus]

None.

3-0 Dr. Doom

Doom then. With a few hours of prep time Braniac wouldn't even blink killing Doom, but a surprise match would have Braniac running away.

[Lobo]

Brainiac

[Hound55]

How much prep time are we talking?

None.

Harsh.

Why not just say Brainiac in a giant blender, Joker by the button of said blender, who wins?

Doom.

[Silicon Surfer]

According to Wikipedia the most recent version of Brainiac has Superman level physical stats and all versions that I know of have had a force field that is impenetrable.

[Majic Walrus]

Harsh.

Why not just say Brainiac in a giant blender, Joker by the button of said blender, who wins?

Doom.

I know right.

According to Wikipedia the most recent version of Brainiac has Superman level physical stats and all versions that I know of have had a force field that is impenetrable.

So?

[CanaryFan]

Brainiac

[Anubis]

Brainiac

[louiebling$]

Dr Doom

[Anubis]

I know right.



So?

So if he wanted to he could kick Doom's ass much the same way the Sentry recently did.

[Majic Walrus]

So if he wanted to he could kick Doom's ass much the same way the Sentry recently did.

Are you comparing Superman to Sentry? I'm a DC Fanboy and even I know that doesn't work.

Even being strong and fast Braniac still has no idea what to do. He's not dumb enough to just get into straight up fisticuffs with Doom. Braniac would rather run away and learn more than throw a punch.

[SuperFerret]

Plus Doom comes up against all kinds of opponents, so he's typically prepared for high powered beings, unless no prep time means that Doom and Brainiac meet in a sauna or something.

[PaleRider]

Doom.

[Docker2.0]

Doom

[Silicon Surfer]

In the whole of his career Doom has never come up with anything that I can think of that would hurt Brainiac. Doom's tech would be very primitive by Brainiac's standards. Brainiac might well be able to exert control over whatever toys Doom has including his armor and turn it to his use.

[SuperFerret]

And then Doom would use his magic.

[Silicon Surfer]

And then Doom would use his magic.

Which won't penetrate Brainiac's force field any more than anything else ever has. That's if he can even move enough to use it in armor controlled by Brainiac.

[J'adore]

Doom

[PemLam]

Brainiac

[Docker2.0]

Which won't penetrate Brainiac's force field any more than anything else ever has. That's if he can even move enough to use it in armor controlled by Brainiac.

Don't tell me you are bringing in the Bendis written Doom? Of course he'd lose to Brainiac. But the regular 616 Doom, I'd say would take it 7/10 times.

[Genesis 1.0]

Doom's double tough, no doubt, I just don't think he'd have enough to drop Brainiac in the end. This is going to be a prolonged match between 2 great minds, Brainiac is more intelligent but intelligence doesn't always translte into battle smarts, as he's shown many times before. Brainiac is a schemer at heart, like Doom and by taking away prep I remoe advantages for both sides.

However, I think that the longer this goes, the more chance Brainiac has of taking over Doom's tech toys. Doom's suit is Promethium, so don't look for him to take much damage from most of anything Brainiac's going to be able to produce at the start. But there's still a window there that lengthens for Brainiac to upsurp Doom's advantages.

Brainiac

10-7 Dr. Doom

[Silicon Surfer]

Promethium is a DC metal.

[Docker2.0]

Ha Genesis! :hehe:

I think Doom's magic is what will give him the edge over Brainiac. It's hard to compute that crap.

[Sparta*]

wouldn't be easy, but Doom takes it

[GlasgowBat]

eh, probably braniac.

[Genesis 1.0]

Promethium is a DC metal.

Guess it's Bi.

Listed under Doom's Devices, Fantastic Four #350. A merger of his armor and that generated by the Soulsword that remains to this day.

So........Docker, you're still on the Epic Fail Watch List.:o


Two of the greatest and most twisted minds clash not with a bang but with a calculated ring as Promethium armo & Earth Intelligence meets Kyrptonian alloy and the Intelligence of Millions. Before he can buy timeto gain the upperhand, this match as all matches must: Victor wins 11-8 and his enemy kneels before DOOM.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2366/boostergoldcool.jpg

Booster Gold

VS

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6232/themandarin.jpg

The Mandarin (10 Rings)

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Mandarin

[Majic Walrus]

While Mandarin is incredibly overpowered with his 10 mighty rings of cool stuff I have to go with Booster on this one.

Most of Mandarin's rings are elementally based something that Booster has loads of protection against. Couple that with the rest of Booster's tech and his ability to be extremely lucky.

I vote Booster.

[Genesis 1.0]

I like the fact that Mandarin has been returned to superhuman levels physically, nevermind the mastery of the rings he's displayed ith using them at distance when they're not on his person.

Booster's matured and showed an amazing amount of innovativeness (yeah baby, yeah!) with his abilities as well.

1-1 TIE

[louiebling$]

Man..... this is a good match :up:

Got to put some more thought into this before I make a vote.

[Majic Walrus]

Who do you like Gen?

[Sparta*]

Mandarin

[Silicon Surfer]

Mandarin, too many options. Mind control, matter manipulation, disintegration, force fields.

[[A]]

The Mandarin.

[Genesis 1.0]

Man..... this is a good match :up:

Got to put some more thought into this before I make a vote.

Thanks, not many Mandarin or Booster matches out there.

Walrus: Dunno, Mandarin's Rings obviously make him versatile, but have a limited effect with about half of them when you consider defenses. Booster's got the edge in Speed, Durability, and Agility thanks to his flight. Not to mention plenty of firepower.

It's really close.

4-1 Mandarin

[CanaryFan]

Mandarin

[Johnny Blaze]

Mandarin

[Anubis]

Mandy. He came and he gave without taking......but we sent him away. :(

[Genesis 1.0]

Damn, Booster doesn't get any cred in or out of the DCU.

7-1 Mandarin

[Anubis]

Nobody said he'd get dog walked.....but he would. :o

[Johnny Blaze]

Yeah, I don't see it going so well for Booster. Mandarin's too versatile, far outclasses Booster in melee combat, is smarter and a better tactician, and has that one hit, kill potential with a couple of his rings.

[Docker2.0]

Manderin. Completely underrated villian.

[PemLam]

Mandarin

[J'adore]

Mandarin

[PaleRider]

man this is a cool fight i wold have never thought of, I vote Booster.

[Genesis 1.0]

I'm going for the underdog, Booster, who's got all the tools to get this done.

11-3 The Mandarin

[Hound55]

****... This is a good one and I wouldn't b**** anyone out for voting either way...

Booster's a lucky son of a b*** and is just coming into his own, but I think Mandarin's too much for him.

Although in a book you could see them writing the win for Booster and it still remaining plausible.

[Asteroid-Man]

Mandarin. Nuff' said.

[louiebling$]

After much thought.... I'm going with the mandarin

[Genesis 1.0]

Youth & Vitality meets Experience & Power as the shining beacon of the Future, Booster Gold meets a mainstay of the Past, the Mandarin in an unlikely clash. Booster manages to protect himself easily from over half of the Mandarin's powers but in the end, it's just all too much as he falls to the Master of the Ten Rings in a 13-3 loss.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/700/humantorchbyerikvonlehm.jpg

The Human Torch

VS

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3788/flashrebirth.jpg

The Flash

[Anubis]

Flash, easy peasy.

[Silicon Surfer]

Torch

[Anubis]

How?

[Silicon Surfer]

Since the Torch fights from the air out of reach and is too hot for the Flash to touch, he starts out with pretty much the inability to lose. Flash could try the old vortex gag, but the Torch's flame should be able to burn up the air that makes up the vortex. The Torch can also make the area simply to hot for the Flash to stay in. How does the Flash win with effectively no attacks? Johnny can also generate blinding light as well as UV to give Flash a sunburn if he comes into range. Yeah, the Flash has great evasion of direct attacks but if Johnny fights effectively then Flash can't touch, can't look, and can't stay close.

[Anubis]

I'd believe that Torch could stop a vortex gag when I actually see him do so on a consistent basis. I've seen him get owned by everything from fire hydrants to super strong hands clapping. Fact is, Flash could take him down any number of ways before he even has a chance to react. Flight? Meaningless. Fire and flame? Wont do dick to somebody who can vibrate his body and become intangible. Tons of experience fighting fire guys, etc, etc.

[Genesis 1.0]

Regardless, this match isn't as open and closed as you're putting out there, Anubis or you, Surfer. This match is a blend of your two prespectives, Torch always starts to fight by going Torch, seeing as this isn't Johnny Storm vs Flash. :o

So Flash is going to find a way to fight from the ground, which he can and will do. You wanna talk about getting owned, Flash has been dropped by everything from being tripped to a clothsline. Torch's heat generation and UV flashes will be a problem, just as Flash's Speed will still be a problem for Torch.

1-1 TIE

[louiebling$]

Yea I don't see how this is an easy win both ways

[[A]]

I'll go with the Flash

(no smilie for the Flash!??!? :argh:)

[Hound55]

Flash.

A lot easier pick for me than the last bout between Mandarin and Booster.

Still can't get over how good a match-up that was.

And I don't buy Torch burning up the vortex on Flash, either. Torch has the capacity to win (as always) by going Nova and thus killing everybody, but he won't do it.

[Docker2.0]

That's the only way I can see him win is going nova. So Flash gets my vote.

See Genesis, I voted DC. :o

[Silicon Surfer]

I'd believe that Torch could stop a vortex gag when I actually see him do so on a consistent basis. I've seen him get owned by everything from fire hydrants to super strong hands clapping. Fact is, Flash could take him down any number of ways before he even has a chance to react. Flight? Meaningless. Fire and flame? Wont do dick to somebody who can vibrate his body and become intangible. Tons of experience fighting fire guys, etc, etc.

The Torch's power even as a teenager was powerful enough to wipe out a quarter of the Earth's surface with one shot. He is even more powerful now so why wouldn't he be able to take out a vortex?

[Docker2.0]

Damn you Silicon for making a good case!!! :argh:


Genesis,I take back my vote. I will hold it til later til I can make up my mind! :csad:

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Flash

[Anubis]

The Torch's power even as a teenager was powerful enough to wipe out a quarter of the Earth's surface with one shot. He is even more powerful now so why wouldn't he be able to take out a vortex?


Because he's been taken out, the exact same way! This isn't about what he COULD do. He could burn the Earth up, doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

[Genesis 1.0]

I'm going Torch, both of these guys are brash and headstrong, this isn't a tactical bout and so I'm going with the guy that can bring the most to bear off the bat and since I've never seen a Megaton Punch or Matter Vibration from Flash as anything but a last resort and thre' Storm who will burn the Flash to a F'N crisp and to Hell with the nays.

Human F'N Torch

4-2 Flash

[Genesis 1.0]

Because he's been taken out, the exact same way! This isn't about what he COULD do. He could burn the Earth up, doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

Pffffft.

And Flash hasnt been dropped easier and by less? Riiiiiiiiight.

Surprised Wally hasn't lost a match because of an untied shoestring yet but I'm sure that's in the wings.

I ain't buying this invincible Flash, god of Speed routine. I've seen too much to the contrary.

[Anubis]

First of all, that's Barry in the pick, and he's anything but headstrong. Captain White bread that he is, he's still far smarter than Johnny. Secondly, if you're talking about Wally, brash and headstrong? Not in the last 10 years. Expert on speed and knows how to use it. Johnny? Whenever it looks like he might finally be starting to mature, somebody takes him back to idiot. If this was Reed with Johnny's powers, the fight would be in his favor, sadly, Johnny is basically a slightly more focused Iceman circa 1990.

Also, taken out by shoe strings? What is this the 60's? Get the f**k outta here. Johnny getting taken out by a fire hydrant? Just last year. I'm going with the guy whose proven himself to not be a f**k up as opposed to the guy whose claim to fame is being a f**k up. If this was MC2 Johnny, who grew the f**k up and lead the Avengers and the FF? Then yeah, this might be a match. But as it stands right now? It's a professional Superhero versus a he-whore who rarely acts with the experience he should possess.

[Hound55]

Its Wally West, right?

I haven't slept through and missed a new Flash right? I mean Bart's one thing, but Wally will do whatever's necessary, vibrate, whatever.

For starter's I can't see Torch catching him. I mean, Torch will be the aggressor and it will be Wally looking to counter, which I think he's VERY well suited for and shouldn't have too many problems sticking a tornado in Torch's face when he thinks he's got Flash pegged...

I mean really, Wally could run off somewhere in a second to find the perfect counter to Torch and down him in a second.

[Hound55]

First of all, that's Barry in the pick, and he's anything but headstrong.
It is too... I just figured we'd be talking Wally...

[Anubis]

I assumed it was Barry seeing as he's the Flash now and Wally is also the Flash but more Flash like Jay Garrick is the Flash, meaning second banana Flash. :(

[Hound55]

Has Wally been nerfed in some way that I don't know about? Because this really doesn't seem even to me.

[Genesis 1.0]

Let me make sure I have the rules straight; Flash being tripped and clothslined by the likes of Deathstroke: Invalid. Torch being beaten by water that logically should have evaporated: A-OK.

WTF

Someone really should sponsor this shiz for one of those 'This is your brain on drugs' public service ads. As to your personal dislike of the direction the character's taken, file that with Marvel, it's got no bearing on this match, what does is the fact that Storm's showed all he's needed to when it comes to beating guys down. If I want a evaluation of how much things suck and how you could do it better, I'll give ya a ring.

Such a bust saying Torch isn't a pro, just as it is implying that Wally F'N West isn't an act first type of guy. What the hell does being an expert on what you are have to do with his take action nature? Nada.

Go down to Alabama and sell that shiz to some of the peeps down there, hear the manure business is booming.

[Anubis]

Nope. In fact, he's back to doing awesome s**t with the Speed Force again like making his own costume, which I might add, should protect him from any heat Johnny could throw at him if it keeps his from bursting into flames when he runs.

[Anubis]

Let me make sure I have the rules straight; Flash being tripped and clothslined by the likes of Deathstroke: Invalid. Torch being beaten by water that logically should have evaporated: A-OK.

WTF

Someone really should sponsor this shiz for one of those 'This is your brain on drugs' public service ads. As to your personal dislike of the direction the character's taken, file that with Marvel, it's got no bearing on this match, what does is the fact that Storm's showed all he's needed to when it comes to beating guys down. If I want a evaluation of how much things suck and how you could do it better, I'll give ya a ring.

Such a bust saying Torch isn't a pro, just as it is implying that Wally F'N West isn't an act first type of guy. What the hell does being an expert on what you are have to do with his take action nature? Nada.

Everything actually. Knowing what you can do and how to do it is a heck of an advantage. If Johnny really took the time to understand just what he could do, he'd be owning fools as bad as the Original Torch.

Go down to Alabama and sell that shiz to some of the peeps down there, hear the manure business is booming.

I didn't say it didn't happen, I just said s**t like that hasn't happened since he was a kid. While the events of Identity Crisis were in fact bulls**t, I can accept the fact that DS is just smart enough to pull s**t like that off. Setting traps. Planning ahead. Knowing your enemy. That's marginally smart Super villain edicit 101. Could f**kin' Johnny pull off such a thing? I don't think so.

[Majic Walrus]

Let me give you the play by play on this fight:

Human Torch: "Flame ---"

Flash: "Did you see that? I just punched that guy 8 times in the balls!"

Winner, Flash.

[Genesis 1.0]

If he can be tripped at any point in time with those abilties by someone who shouldn't even be able to concieve the act then he's surely capable of being burned by Torch a little ways down the road.

You're vastly underestimating Torch and lending Wally more intelligence and tact than he deserves.

5-2 Flash

[Anubis]

Yeah, well, the reverse of what you just said Mr. Devils advocate.

[Genesis 1.0]

Let me give you the play by play on this fight:

Human Torch: "Flame ---"

Flash: "Did you see that? I just punched that guy 8 times in the balls!"

Winner, Flash.

YOU again?:o

The tell me, kind sir, why ALL his battles don't end that way?

Better yet, why the F____ does he have a Gallery with the likes of Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, & Gorilla Grodd?:doh:

And he's going to wtfpawn the Torch?

:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:

[Hound55]

On the intelligence stakes, Wally hasn't been as dumb as Johnny since Terminal Velocity... with the obvious MC2 Matchstick exception...

[Genesis 1.0]

Yeah, well, the reverse of what you just said Mr. Devils advocate.

Someone has to think outside the box while you nubs are having a house party inside.:o

[Hound55]

YOU again?:o

The tell me, kind sir, why ALL his battles don't end that way?

Better yet, why the F____ does he have a Gallery with the likes of Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, & Gorilla Grodd?:doh:

And he's going to wtfpawn the Torch?

:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:
Because they're pre-established rogues and that's the line comics companies like to keep...?

[Anubis]

All of which could probably kick the Torches' ass.

[Majic Walrus]

YOU again?:o

The tell me, kind sir, why ALL his battles don't end that way?

Better yet, why the F____ does he have a Gallery with the likes of Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, & Gorilla Grodd?:doh:

And he's going to wtfpawn the Torch?

:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:

Hey man. Grodd is a bad ass.

:oldrazz:

I know that Flash wouldn't one panel Johnny, however my point is that Flash is too fast for Johnny to keep up with. Notice how Flash rouges gallery is full of teleporters, ranged specialists, and a gorilla.

Johnny isn't really much of any of those.

[Genesis 1.0]

They could what?

Wow, just, wow.

This entire deal is starting to get that 'beating a bag of feahers' feel to it. Kepp knocking it down and it just absorbs it, unchanged. Nothing new, just those same old nonsensical feathers.

[Hound55]

Notice how Flash rouges gallery is full of teleporters, ranged specialists, and a gorilla.

Johnny isn't really much of any of those.
:facepalm:

You're not allowed to agree with me any more...

[Docker2.0]

Ha! Dude was just voting becuase it was DC and didn't even know Flash's rogues.



I'm going with the Flash 6.5/10 times. I'm not saying Flash would own Torch becuase people are really underestimating a guy that looks like a man-whore becuase he's around Spidey and Mr. Fantastic all day so why be the brains of the bunch when you have friends like that? I actually think he's smarter than what he appears to be but let them get the glory in the brains area while he gets the babes. I can't blame him one bit. :o


PS-Grodd is a awesome villian. :up:

[trustyside-kick]

I really want to vote for The Torch for the pure fact that everyone is voting for The Flash but...I just cannot think of a way Johnny walks away in this one. Anubis makes a good point about the Speed Force giving the Flash a degree of resistance to heat as well. If this was an all out death match, where the heroes throw aside all possible restraint...Johnny could have a chance but then again The Flash at full potential and not holding back would still be too lethal for him. :csad:

The Flash

[Genesis 1.0]

:facepalm:

You're not allowed to agree with me any more...

:hehe:I almost died laughing at this, literally.:hehe: Hot Pocket + Hillarity = Death.:hehe:

Docker: I can respect that, it really is a thin margin of victory either way.

7-2 Flash

[Chunin]

West can burn like any other man. Torch

[The_Mighty_Thor]

. Notice how Flash rouges gallery is full of teleporters, ranged specialists, and a gorilla.

Johnny isn't really much of any of those.

It also has a guy with a bag full of tricks you could buy at your local joke shop, but I guess Johhny isn't him either!

Curious, who has a weapon with more range than Torch's flame balls?

[Genesis 1.0]

Laughing MY Ass Off here.

Walrus you never fail to fail. :o

[Johnny Blaze]

Whether it's Barry or Wally, I gotta go with the Flash.

Oh, and the Rogues are awesome. Easily one of the best rogue galleries in comics.

[Harlekin]

Flash

[Genesis 1.0]

Whether it's Barry or Wally, I gotta go with the Flash.

Oh, and the Rogues are awesome. Easily one of the best rogue galleries in comics.

Yeah, you and the rest of the populist ilk are sipping the Kool Aid on this one. You hear it so often and it never ceases to make me laugh.

If you think Flash's Gallery is the best then you probably looked up to your High Scool prinicipal. Low standards abound.:o

9-3 Flash

[Johnny Blaze]

Yeah, you and the rest of the populist ilk are sipping the Kool Aid on this one. You hear it so often and it never ceases to make me laugh.

If you think Flash's Gallery is the best then you probably looked up to your High Scool prinicipal. Low standards abound.:o

9-3 Flash

No, I just know quality villains when I see 'em is all. :cwink:

[trustyside-kick]

The Flash Rogues have that brotherhood team thing going and the personalities within that brotherhood are awesome. So I 100% agree with JB.

[Harlekin]

Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would like Flash's rogues. They're just a bunch of well-rounded characters and all.

[louiebling$]

I think Flash will walk out victorious.......I think Johnny's Downfall will be his Ego.

To me Barry's Intelligence will be his biggest weapon against johnny.

[Hound55]

Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would like Flash's rogues. They're just a bunch of well-rounded characters and all.
Yes but this topic isn't about characters, that's what the MARVEL VS DC topic is for, this is a tournament topic dealing more in powers/abilities and how that translates in hypothetical scenarios with other characters powers/abilities.

I like Flash's rogues too... but labelling them "amongst the best in comics" is something more deserving in the other topic than this one.

This one you'll see it laughed out.

[Docker2.0]

I don't think the Flash's villians are that much better than the Xmen or DD. I think it's just how they are used. 3 years ago before that Rogue's revenge arc, people wouldn't have even thought of Flash's rogues. But that story brought them out. As stated earlier, it's how they are written that makes them who or what they are.

[Harlekin]

Yes but this topic isn't about characters, that's what the MARVEL VS DC topic is for, this is a tournament topic dealing more in powers/abilities and how that translates in hypothetical scenarios with other characters powers/abilities.

I like Flash's rogues too... but labelling them "amongst the best in comics" is something more deserving in the other topic than this one.

This one you'll see it laughed out.

Which is an even worse position to take. Flash's rogues are some of the most powerful in the villain business. Weather Wizard, Gorilla Grodd, yes, even Captain Cold. These are no slouches.

[J'adore]

Flash

[PemLam]

Flash

[Genesis 1.0]

Which is an even worse position to take. Flash's rogues are some of the most powerful in the villain business. Weather Wizard, Gorilla Grodd, yes, even Captain Cold. These are no slouches.

:hehe: I really should print and frame this.

No slouches you say? Some of the most powerful you say? Speaking of Weathr Wizard, Grodd, & Captain Cold? They don't even rank in the Top 10 of Galleries.

If you'd prefer to believe that one significant arc with these guys brought to the forefront in some way makes up for being excessively cheesy and years lacking in any real menace, then yeah, they're among the best. Just off the top of my head Magneto, Kingpin, Goblin, Stane, Doom, or Red Skull easily have more depth than any single character Flash has in his Gallery and each of the patron Heroes that oppose said villians have a better Gallery.

Flash's rouges are weak in power and mediocre at best in depth.


Zip. Zap. ZOOOOOM baby! The Flash streaks into battle with Marvel's playboy, Johnny Storm in a blockbuster. But come Flame Balls, Heat Waves, or Nova Blasts Flash delivers a 13-3 beatdown.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/192/ghostrider.jpg

Ghost Rider: Johnny Blaze

VS

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/292/lobo.jpg

Lobo

[Hound55]

:hehe: I really should print and frame this.

No slouches you say? Some of the most powerful you say? Speaking of Weathr Wizard, Grodd, & Captain Cold? They don't even rank in the Top 10 of Galleries.

If you'd prefer to believe that one significant arc with these guys brought to the forefront in some way makes up for being excessively cheesy and years lacking in any real menace, then yeah, they're among the best. Just off the top of my head Magneto, Kingpin, Goblin, Stane, Doom, or Red Skull easily have more depth than any single character Flash has in his Gallery and each of the patron Heroes that oppose said villians have a better Gallery.

Flash's rouges are weak in power and mediocre at best in depth.


Zip. Zap. ZOOOOOM baby! The Flash streaks into battle with Marvel's playboy, Johnny Storm in a blockbuster. But come Flame Balls, Heat Waves, or Nova Blasts Flash delivers a 13-3 beatdown.
I don't know...

I reckon Iron Man's a push in terms of rogues...

Grodd, Shade, Mirror Master, Captain Cold...

Iron Man doesn't exactly have the best list himself...

But yeah, to me character > threat when it comes to Flash's villains in my eyes

[Ace of Knaves]

Great pics of both those guys Gen.

It will be a brutal match, that's for sure. And a very tight one I think.

I'm going Ghost Rider, just barely. If Johnny let's the spirit take over he's pretty much unstoppable these days. I mean, he could of taken out Green Scar Hulk but didn't only because he deemed him innocent.

Lobo is practically impervious to physical harm, but hellfire doesn't burn physically, it burns your soul! muwahahahahaha.

[Majic Walrus]

This is going to be a hell of a fight. Assuming it takes place on the Earth and the ground I'm still going to go with Lobo. His healing factor is insane and whatever damage he takes repairs it self almost instantly and he can repair his body from almost any damage.

Add to that the fact that he's one tough bastich and I'll have to go with Lobo.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea Lobo can reform from a pool of blood. But doesn't that still count as a loss? Like say if Deadpool got decapitated, it doesn't kill him, but it's still a loss.

Plus GR can do more than physical damage.

[Majic Walrus]

Would that count as defeat?

Fair enough the newest GR is a total badass. But don't forget Lobo is also a genius level badguy.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea man I know Lobo is a thorough bad ass. It will be an epic fight that's for sure, but I think GR just squeeks it.

[Silicon Surfer]

Ghost Rider, the ability to heal the body doesn't count for anything at all when it is your soul that is being incinerated.

[Genesis 1.0]

Blaze's apparently absorbd the same powers as Ketch to add to his own with his rebirth, and he's one of the most powerfl in the MU now, so yeah this one is going to be tight.

As to the regeneration, I gainsay this the same way I slapped it down for Deadpool and Wolverine, if you have to take the time to regenerate a new head and such, that constitutes a loss. Lobo won' have to rely on that much regeneration in this match unless it's toward the end of a battle that's going to rage for a loooong time. The Main Man's got Strength and Durability in Spades.

He's up to his neck in shiz if he gets the Pennace Stare though. Enough Hellfire will prove to be a problem as well, nd it doesn't help that Blaze can now give him some physical blows that'll stagger him and take the same.

In the end, Rider's ability to deal physical and supernatural damage wins it for me.

Ghost Rider

4-1 Ghost Rider

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Ghost Rider

[Docker2.0]

Ghost Rider, the ability to heal the body doesn't count for anything at all when it is your soul that is being incinerated.

Yep! Anyone who understands both characters realize that once GR's hellfire hit Lobo, there's no healing factor that is going to take away the pain it causes. Not to mention his penance stair. I just see no way Lobo wins this.

Ghost Rider.

[Genesis 1.0]

Whoa now, Lobo's still the Main Man, still a tactical genius, still a Kyrptonian level powerhouse with an insane healing factor. No way in Hell (pun intended) is this going to be a walk in the park for either of these guys seeing as neither of them know when to stay the f___ down.

6-1 Ghost Rider

[Docker2.0]

It won't be a walk in the park but I don't see GR losing this. He's a supernatural being and I don't care how strong Lobo is, really there is nothing he can do to beat him.

[Harlekin]

No slouches you say? Some of the most powerful you say? Speaking of Weathr Wizard, Grodd, & Captain Cold? They don't even rank in the Top 10 of Galleries.
Say what now? Most of them outrank a street level gallery like Bats'. They are generally on par with Spidey's when it comes to power and in some cases go beyond that. Gorilla Grodd has taken on the JLA. Abra Kadabra, The Top, these are top level players.

If you'd prefer to believe that one significant arc with these guys brought to the forefront in some way makes up for being excessively cheesy and years lacking in any real menace, then yeah, they're among the best. Just off the top of my head Magneto, Kingpin, Goblin, Stane, Doom, or Red Skull easily have more depth than any single character Flash has in his Gallery and each of the patron Heroes that oppose said villians have a better Gallery.
One arc? Modern day writers have been giving the Rogues depth since John Ostrander used Captain Boomerang in the Suicide Squad (that's 1987 for ya). They've been in the spotlight since Waid (he came on the title in '92) and Johns just took them further. They've been kicking ass since at least ten years now. They deserve their credit.

For that matter, the Rogues, in contrast to some of their villainous brethren, have seen more good writing than some other characters you've listed. Magneto's characterisation went out the door with Claremont. The Green Goblin's glory days were under Stan Lee. He's only recently been climbing out of a two decade hole. Obadiah Stane's been dead for twenty years and the last time Doom was written right was during Waid's FF run. That leaves you Kingpin and Red Skull, at least Brubaker's done good with them lately.

Yes, Flash's rogues were cheesy for a long time, but they've stepped up their game and should be counted as one of the better galleries.

[Majic Walrus]

And I'm doesn't GR have to be able to stare into your eyes to make the Pennance Stare work? Who says Lobo would allow that to happen?

Lobo has ****ed up some of DCs heaviest hitters.

[Docker2.0]

I knew when Lobo only had one vote, that it was you Walrus who voted for him. Just saying. :o

[Teth-Adam.]

lobo shatters gr into a thousand tiny peices

[Teth-Adam.]

with a single backhanded slap

[Ace of Knaves]

Not really...

[Docker2.0]

Guy who happens to have 2 post in the same thread saying the same thing voting for the same guy..........................someone say puppet account? :o

[Anubis]

The Rider. Wont be easy though.

[louiebling$]

And I'm doesn't GR have to be able to stare into your eyes to make the Pennance Stare work? Who says Lobo would allow that to happen?

Lobo has ****ed up some of DCs heaviest hitters.Lobo has never fought GR... how they hell would he know about it? He wouldn't therefore GR would be able to do the Penance Stare.

I knew when Lobo only had one vote, that it was you Walrus who voted for him. Just saying. :o

Your the Marvel Walrus... you have no room to talk :o

[Anubis]

Ha! Burn.

[Docker2.0]

Lobo has never fought GR... how they hell would he know about it? He wouldn't therefore GR would be able to do the Penance Stare.



Your the Marvel Walrus... you have no room to talk :o

I voted DC numerous times. Check it bro. :up:

[louiebling$]

Well than latley you have been more towards marvel... its been a while since I've seen you vote for DC but ill give you the benefit of the doubt.:up:

Also Walrus does vote Marvel every once in a while...:cwink:

[Docker2.0]

I prefer Marvel, no question but I do read DC as well. Actually GL is my favorite superhero, but just saying. You have a favorite company to whether it's DC or Marvel. But I don't vote company only, just prefer Marvel.

[louiebling$]

Yea for a long time I used to be one of those DC sucks Marvel. Is Superiior blah blah blah but now I have a new found affinity for DC... I still prefer Marvel in the long run(Cap is my favorite hero).

[Docker2.0]

I actually was a DC bluff first til the Xmen's cartoon got me to reading Marvel comics. That's when I started to realize that maybe DC characters are kinda overpowered. But I'm getting back into DC again becuase of blackest night, which is great but it still does have it's WTF moments. And I just voted DC on the last match, Flash against Torch. :huh:

[louiebling$]

Touché sir you did :awesome:

[Hound55]

Johnny Blaze, ain't a damn thing changed...

[Hound55]

This is going to be a hell of a fight. Assuming it takes place on the Earth and the ground I'm still going to go with [DC Character]. His [DC character's best attribute] is insane and [Description of DC Character's Best Attribute].

Add to that the fact that he's [A compliment other than just "He's From DC"] and I'll have to go with [DC Character].
There you go, bud. I've made you a form letter for all of your future posts. :up:

[Majic Walrus]

Lobo has never fought GR... how they hell would he know about it? He wouldn't therefore GR would be able to do the Penance Stare.


Oh yeah. I forgot. When I get into fights I regularly allow my opponent to grab me by the ears and stare into my eyes because I don't know that it will cause me unimaginable pain.

Also thanks for noticing that I do vote for Marvel some and I also generally vote for the winning fighter... Sos I'm just saying.

My point is what makes you think that GR will ever get the chance?

There you go, bud. I've made you a form letter for all of your future posts. :up:

That's a good idea. I was going to make one for you guys too but you've pretty much explored all the ways to say that I prefer DC so...

[Hound55]

That's a good idea. I was going to make one for you guys too but you've pretty much explored all the ways to say that I prefer DC so...
Oh, mate, you DON'T want to go saying things that I can read as an open challenge to formulate more ways of saying you're a DC fanboy...

I'm FAR too competitive for things like that... :awesome:

[PemLam]

Ghost Rider

[J'adore]

Ghost Rider

[louiebling$]

Oh yeah. I forgot. When I get into fights I regularly allow my opponent to grab me by the ears and stare into my eyes because I don't know that it will cause me unimaginable pain.

Also thanks for noticing that I do vote for Marvel some and I also generally vote for the winning fighter... Sos I'm just saying.

My point is what makes you think that GR will ever get the chance?



That's a good idea. I was going to make one for you guys too but you've pretty much explored all the ways to say that I prefer DC so...
how do you know that at one point on the match lobo gets a little droggy or stunned for a moment.... it can happen you know these are comic book characters :cwink:

im not saying that its in concrete that GR will use it on him,im just saying its a possibity.

[Johnny Blaze]

Me...

[Majic Walrus]

how do you know that at one point on the match lobo gets a little droggy or stunned for a moment.... it can happen you know these are comic book characters :cwink:

im not saying that its in concrete that GR will use it on him,im just saying its a possibity.

Oh it definitely is a possibility. I just don't think GR will get the chance.

[Majic Walrus]

Oh, mate, you DON'T want to go saying things that I can read as an open challenge to formulate more ways of saying you're a DC fanboy...

I'm FAR too competitive for things like that... :awesome:

:cmad:

[SuperFerret]

Wouldn't Lobo have to feel remorse in order for the Penance Stare to work? I'd imagine that he'd enjoy getting to see his crimes played back all over again.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

If that were the case the penace stare wouldn't work on any of GR's enemies.

[Genesis 1.0]

That's true.

Problem is, it's very likely that Johnny knocks Lobo for a loop on a good series of chain enhanced knuckles, grabs his head and then it's Penance Stare. It's not as if Blaze is jut going to gab his head and allow Lobo a chance to break him, he's going to wear him down first.

12-2 Ghost Rider

[Majic Walrus]

You act like GR can wear down Lobo with a few slaps on the face.

[Genesis 1.0]

Blaze's apparently absorbd the same powers as Ketch to add to his own with his rebirth, and he's one of the most powerfl in the MU now, so yeah this one is going to be tight.

As to the regeneration, I gainsay this the same way I slapped it down for Deadpool and Wolverine, if you have to take the time to regenerate a new head and such, that constitutes a loss. Lobo won't have to rely on that much regeneration in this match unless it's toward the end of a battle that's going to rage for a loooong time. The Main Man's got Strength and Durability in Spades.

He's up to his neck in shiz if he gets the Pennace Stare though. Enough Hellfire will prove to be a problem as well, nd it doesn't help that Blaze can now give him some physical blows that'll stagger him and take the same.

In the end, Rider's ability to deal physical and supernatural damage wins it for me.

Ghost Rider

4-1 Ghost Rider

So......

Yeah.:o

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/33/deathstroketheterminato.jpg

Deathstroke

VS

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/341/greengoblin.jpg

Green Goblin

[Hound55]

Deathstroke.

Automatic weapons + Not caring about hitting innocent bystanders > Green Goblin...

EDIT: I reckon Punisher could take Norman in an abandoned warehouse or somewhere without innocent bystanders, Deadpool or Deathstroke is just overkill IMO.

[Silicon Surfer]

Deathstroke

[Genesis 1.0]

Deathstroke.

Automatic weapons + Not caring about hitting innocent bystanders > Green Goblin...

EDIT: I reckon Punisher could take Norman in an abandoned warehouse or somewhere without innocent bystanders, Deadpool or Deathstroke is just overkill IMO.

1.) Automatic weaons < Pumpkin Bombs & Glider Artillery

2.) Since when does the Green Goblin care about innocents?

Nevermind the fact that Norman's a genuis and has an Oz formula that gives him Spidey class strength.

Green Goblin

2-1 Deathstroke

[Hound55]

I'm not saying Green Goblin does care about harming innocents.

I'm saying that it makes it a lot easier to take out a guy with Goblin's agility on the glider if you don't give a f*** what else you hit trying to take him out.

Glider artillery's not as dextrous or manoeverable as an automatic firearm.

The only advantage the glider gives is that it can close the gap pretty quickly, against Deathstroke trying to keep distance to shoot him out of the sky.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Goblin

[Sparta*]

Deathstroke. I think Deathstroke is the most used character in the tournament threads lol

[Docker2.0]

Deathstroke.


I voted DC again Louiebling.

[Anubis]

Gobby.

[SuperFerret]

Norman would **** Deathstroke up.

[Anubis]

He's everything Deathstroke is (If not more cuz he is stronger and faster), plus he's crazy. And you know what? Crazy may be the thing that lets him walk outta this alive.

[Docker2.0]

Are you guys serious?!?!? I don't see Gobby of having a chance in this one at all. Deathstroke would walk the dog with him.

[SuperFerret]

Name one thing that Deathstroke can do that (a) Norman can't, and (b) Norman won't immediately make him pay for.

[Anubis]

he don't get not prep time to set up bombs and think up insane ways to take him down like somehow making a GL stupid enough to try and punch him in the face. :o

[Docker2.0]

DS has the strength of ten men so I'd imagine, Norman might have a little bit more strength, he's not that far off. Plus the guy uses 90% of his brain. I think if anyone would benefit from not having prep time it would be him. Not to mention his healing factor, though not Wolverine level, it would help him. Plus his reflexes are said to be astounding so DS gets this to me.

[Anubis]

You know, really that's a stupid power. The whole mankind only uses 10% of their brain bulls**t is an urban legend. You use 80% just chewing gum and walking at the same time. :o

[Docker2.0]

Actually I heard man uses like 15% at the most. Who else knows what our minds do. But I guess it makes us think faster, pump out more adreline, control our heartrates and all other things that I haven't thought of.

[SuperFerret]

DS has the strength of ten men so I'd imagine, Norman might have a little bit more strength, he's not that far off. Plus the guy uses 90% of his brain. I think if anyone would benefit from not having prep time it would be him. Not to mention his healing factor, though not Wolverine level, it would help him. Plus his reflexes are said to be astounding so DS gets this to me.

Norman is near Spider-Man level in strength, which would put him at around 10 tons of lifting strength. Norman, like most living creatures, uses 100% of his brain (which makes Slade 10% retarded). Osborn is also great at thinking on his feet, so the no prep time gives neither an advantage. Wilson wins on the healing factor match up, but I'm sure that the Goblin will do enough damage to take him out of the fight even if he can heal from it afterwards. As for Deathstroke's reflexes, Norman Osborn fights Spider-Man on a regular basis, so I doubt Slade's reflexes would be an issue.

[Docker2.0]

Are you guys serious?! Humans only use 15% of their brain at the very most. :huh:

[Silicon Surfer]

Deathstroke's strength remains arguable but he is easily the faster of the two. He also has intensive hth that Gobby doesn't and promethium armor. He has guns and his staff to counter Gobby's munitions. Since Deathstroke can dodge bullets Gobby's rockets and pumpkin bombs should not be more than a nuisance.

[SuperFerret]

Then why is our brain so damn big? Nature abhors unnecessary organs, and given the amount of problems our big brains give our species, it would make no sense for us to have so much wasted space.

[Anubis]

Science!

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=people-only-use-10-percent-of-brain

[Docker2.0]

Damn you Anubis for making me think!! :argh:


But I still have to give the slight edge to DS, 5.1/10 times.

[Anubis]

And while you were thinking you used more of your brain than Deathstroke. I think you could beat that retard. :o

[Silicon Surfer]

The claim that I heard many years ago was that Man uses 5% of the brains "potential". This is significantly different from using 10% of the brain even allowing for the different percentage figure. When you read about what some people do you come to realize that we are not using much of our potential even if we are using 100% of our brains. Another thing that hit me about the Scientific American article is that they mention that the brain uses 20% of the body's energy but forget to tell people that the brain is performing best when it is using the least amount of energy. They have done test where they measure the energy output of the brain in real time while doing different mental tasks. The best performers were using the least amount of energy.

[SuperFerret]

But Deathstroke has no qualifiers, he just uses 10% less than everyone else.

[Docker2.0]

The claim that I heard many years ago was that Man uses 5% of the brains "potential". This is significantly different from using 10% of the brain even allowing for the different percentage figure. When you read about what some people do you come to realize that we are not using much of our potential even if we are using 100% of our brains. Another thing that hit me about the Scientific American article is that they mention that the brain uses 20% of the body's energy but forget to tell people that the brain is performing best when it is using the least amount of energy. They have done test where they measure the energy output of the brain in real time while doing different mental tasks. The best performers were using the least amount of energy.

This is what I was taught which is why I gave the fight to DS.

[Anubis]

I bet you also believe that people don't dream in color.

[Docker2.0]

Nah I dream in color. When I dream a "certain" type of dream, the girls come in all different shades of color. So I KNOW we don't dream in black and white. :cool:

[SuperFerret]

What about dogs? Do they dream in black and white?

[Silicon Surfer]

Nah, dogs dream in Techniscent.

[Anubis]

Do the blind dream, and if so, can they see?

[Docker2.0]

Probably dream of Oprah and Roseanne Barr naked, hence why they are blind. :o

[Silicon Surfer]

Do the blind dream, and if so, can they see?

Everybody dreams no matter what their sensory capacity. Those who could originally see would probably be able to see in their dreams, at least to the extent that their visual experiences in real life provided them with material for the dreams. Those born blind would not see in their dreams because their are no visual impressions to draw upon.

[Anubis]

I can't even fathom what that would be like. :(

[Silicon Surfer]

Their dreams would be based on sound, scent and touch. In the blind the visual center of the brain takes over auditory processing and being bigger and more powerful it produces more info from the same input. I imagine it would be similar to the difference between DOS era graphics and the graphics produced in modern games.

[Majic Walrus]

We use all of our brain. We just don't use it all ALL the time. Slade does.

DS wins.

[PemLam]

Deathstroke

[CanaryFan]

Goblin

[Ace of Knaves]

Good fight. I think Slade squeeks this. Mainly due to his healing factor and superior agility/reflexes

[Teth-Adam.]

Good fight, but Slade is going to win beacause he is faster, has better reflexes, is a better tactian, has better fighting skills, and is better equiped than osborn.

[Genesis 1.0]

Good fight, but Slade is going to win beacause he is faster, has better reflexes, is a better tactian, has better fighting skills, and is better equiped than osborn.

Am I the only one that cringes seeing shiz like this?:o

It's been said by more than myself but I'll give it another go:

Norman is a better version of Deathstroke physically, the only sector Deathstroke surpasses Goblin is in intellect and Norman's a genius and he's completely insane and shown himself capable of overcoming minds like Parker's. Unpredictability.

As to Deathstroke's reflexes better than Norman? lmfao Goblin has battled Spider Man for years and has evaded more attacks from a faster character.:hehe:

7-6 Deathstroke

[Chunin]

Green Goblin

[Anubis]

That's what i'm not understanding. Gobby is basically equal to Spidey in reflexes. Deathstroke is more than human, but he is NOT, that fast.

[PaleRider]

Am I the only one that cringes seeing shiz like this?:o

It's been said by more than myself but I'll give it another go:

Norman is a better version of Deathstroke physically, the only sector Deathstroke surpasses Goblin is in intellect and Norman's a genius and he's completely insane and shown himself capable of overcoming minds like Parker's. Unpredictability.

As to Deathstroke's reflexes better than Norman? lmfao Goblin has battled Spider Man for years and has evaded more attacks from a faster character.:hehe:

7-6 Deathstroke
you know what you bring up good points, I'll vote Goblin.

[Infinity9999x]

I don't hate Wolverine. In all honesty I prefer him to Creeper. But I ain't stupid, most of Wolverines wins are simply because he is "Mr Over Exposure" not because he actually could win. Like I said, he gave Rulk a hard time, but Rulk obliterated Thor? C'mon...

Well, to be fair on the Hulk issue, Wolverine's first exposure was of him fighting the Hulk.

So, at his conception, Wolverine was supposed to be a foe that could go toe to toe with the Hulk.

I'm not exactly a fan of him being that powered up, since my favorite version of Wolverine is the 1980's version written by Claremont, in which Wolverine was almost killed by lord Shingin.

However, to say that Wolverine would lose to the Creeper is a bit much.

[Hound55]

Good fight, but Slade is going to win beacause he is faster, has better reflexes, is a better tactian, has better fighting skills, and is better equiped than osborn.

Am I the only one that cringes seeing shiz like this?:o



No. I cringe at that too, I don't think he has better reflexes or is better equipped than Osbourne.

I just think that his reflexes are good enough for the equipment he has and what he'll be facing.

To me, the automatic weaponry, combined with a complete disregard for innocent bystanders when using said automatic weaponry and Deathstroke's reflexes all come together to take out the Goblin.

You put Deathstroke on a glider like device and give Goblin a ****e-load of automatic weaponry I'd bet on him to take out Slade... but that's not the scenario.

[Hound55]

Well, to be fair on the Hulk issue, Wolverine's first exposure was of him fighting the Hulk.

So, at his conception, Wolverine was supposed to be a foe that could go toe to toe with the Hulk.

Yeah, but Red Hulk?

Rulk was destroying people far more powerful than Wolverine...

[Genesis 1.0]

No. I cringe at that too, I don't think he has better reflexes or is better equipped than Osbourne.

I just think that his reflexes are good enough for the equipment he has and what he'll be facing.

To me, the automatic weaponry, combined with a complete disregard for innocent bystanders when using said automatic weaponry and Deathstroke's reflexes all come together to take out the Goblin.

You put Deathstroke on a glider like device and give Goblin a ****e-load of automatic weaponry I'd bet on him to take out Slade... but that's not the scenario.

I don't know man, just the idea of guns being the key to taking down the Goblin just seems......lacking.

Jeez, the man has had everyone from SWAT to Kingpin's goons to Punisher shoot at him and none of them succeed and Frank carries a mobile armory of automatic weapons and explosives. I don't think it's enough to take down Norman.

Oh well at least we ALL agree that Goblin's reflexes trump Deathstroke's.

8-7 Green Goblin

[Hound55]

That's what i'm not understanding. Gobby is basically equal to Spidey in reflexes. Deathstroke is more than human, but he is NOT, that fast.
Gobby's doesn't have pre-cognitive abilities in terms of reflexes...

But yes, the fact that he holds his own against a guy who does (and has freakish agility to boot) tells me his reflexes > Deathstroke's.

The only place I'd change that up is in practical use in one on one combat. And that's more because Goblin's strength means he can take more serious blows, and because Deathstroke is as highly trained a martial artist (i.e. makes a career out of expecting blows and maintaing balance/keeping position to best deflect, evade or counter those blows) as he is.

[Hound55]

I don't know man, just the idea of guns being the key to taking down the Goblin just seems......lacking.

Jeez, the man has had everyone from SWAT to Kingpin's goons to Punisher shoot at him and none of them succeed and Frank carries a mobile armory of automatic weapons and explosives. I don't think it's enough to take down Norman.

Oh well at least we ALL agree that Goblin's reflexes trump Deathstroke's.

8-7 Green Goblin
SWAT and Castle still have only human level reflexes.

Whilst Castle is as well trained as thoroughly trained in all manner of ordnance, Deathstroke's reflexes should be able to make adjustments better to keep Goblin in his sights. Plus Castle and SWAT can't be as reckless with their firearms (unless Castle is in an abandoned area) as Deathstroke.

[Silicon Surfer]

Spidey has has trouble with low level speedsters like Speed Demon. Deathstroke has had no trouble with high level speedsters like Wally West. What does that tell you? The indication are that Deathstroke is a good deal faster than Spidey who is in turn faster than Gobby. If Gobby were as fast as Spidey he would have been able to hit and kill him a long time ago. Spider Senses alone wouldn't compensate for Gobby's artillery. Deathstroke's "strength of ten men" may not have been literal but in any case is very vague because strength varies widely. Is he as strong as ten 70 year old humans? Or as strong as ten 25 year old Daxamite men? Slade has gone hth with Wonder Woman and knocked her around with it being stated on panel that he is faster than she is. Anyone who can routinely take out the Titans, knock around the JLA and go knuckle and skull with Wonder Woman should not have any trouble at all with Gobby.

[Docker2.0]

Very close fight! I don't feel bad about my statement that DS would win 5.1/10 fights. Neither one of them would own the other but each fight would be extremely close.

[louiebling$]

Gobby

[Genesis 1.0]

Spidey has has trouble with low level speedsters like Speed Demon. Deathstroke has had no trouble with high level speedsters like Wally West. What does that tell you? The indication are that Deathstroke is a good deal faster than Spidey who is in turn faster than Gobby. If Gobby were as fast as Spidey he would have been able to hit and kill him a long time ago. Spider Senses alone wouldn't compensate for Gobby's artillery. Deathstroke's "strength of ten men" may not have been literal but in any case is very vague because strength varies widely. Is he as strong as ten 70 year old humans? Or as strong as ten 25 year old Daxamite men? Slade has gone hth with Wonder Woman and knocked her around with it being stated on panel that he is faster than she is. Anyone who can routinely take out the Titans, knock around the JLA and go knuckle and skull with Wonder Woman should not have any trouble at all with Gobby.


Everything higlighted there is just REALLY bad writing, but that last with Slade being faster than Wonder Woman, that's just idiotic. And to see you dredging up DACMAN quality comic blunders is just pathetic. What's next? You going to back up Wolverine beating Lobo?

The writing is sad and your defense to serve your point is lame.



The criminally insane, OZ powered, Pumpkin Bomb wielding Lunatic goes head to head with the Mentally Gifted tactical genuis of the DC Uiverse in a battle where many innocent bystanders were killed today. In the end, Deathstroke is finally beaten back into a mountain of shell casings after a close range Pumpkin Bomb to the face as the Green Goblin cackles away with a 9-7 victory.

[Infinity9999x]

Spidey has has trouble with low level speedsters like Speed Demon. Deathstroke has had no trouble with high level speedsters like Wally West. What does that tell you?

It tells you that writers constantly downplay heroes or villains abilities to increase dramatic tension.

Yes, Spidey has had trouble with Speed Demon, heck, Spidey has had trouble with Kingpin. But then we see him do something like lifting a 2 ton helicopter and we're left wondering why he can't take out Kingpin in a fight.

The same thing with the Flash. Flash is really one of the most powerful heroes in the world. He has the potential ability to kill someone like Superman. For all purposes, there should never be any question that Slade could contend with him. If Flash is written to his full potential, almost no one could beat him.

But that's boring, so they downplay the characters powers. It's the same reason that you rarely see Superman use his superspeed in fights. Because if he really utilized his superspeed to it's potential, almost no one would be able to beat him either. But he doesn't, because, again, no one wants to see a hero that beats everyone without breaking a sweat.

Yeah, but Red Hulk?

Rulk was destroying people far more powerful than Wolverine...

I wasn't talking about Red Hulk. I was only talking about Wolverine in relation to Hulk and the Creeper.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/117/blackpanther1.jpg

Black Panther

VS

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7296/killercroc.jpg

Killer Croc

[Johnny Blaze]

Is this T'Challa?

[Ace of Knaves]

This is a sick fight. I need to think it over :D

[Harlekin]

Black Panther.

[Majic Walrus]

I second Johnny Blaze's question.

If this is T'Challa I think it's all over for Croc easy.

[Genesis 1.0]

Is this T'Challa?

Ace: Thanx.

Yeah, I used that pic because it was badassery incarnate.:awesome:

Croc's stronger, faster, more Durable, and has better senses. BP's more Inelligent, has great tech, and that pesky vibranium.

Croc beats on him hard enough or throws him around eough and T'Challa wlll be unconcious, it's happene before. Croc's also more than fast enough to evade T'Challa' attacks for some time and he doesn't seem to tire.

Did I mention Croc has a healing factor?:o

2-0 Black Panther

[Majic Walrus]

Intelligence has always been the deciding factor against Waylon.

T'Challa wins.

[Anubis]

BP, seriously.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Panther

[Majic Walrus]

Wow. I expected someone to vote for Croc.

[Johnny Blaze]

I imagine somebody may feel sorry for him and toss him a vote, but not me.
I see T'Challa making Croc into a nice pair of boots.

[louiebling$]

Black Panther