The Ultimate DC/Marvel Tournament

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/5166/darkhawk.jpg

Darkhawk

VS

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5176/bluebeetler.jpg

Blue Beetle


{{{Requested Match}}}

[Anubis]

Haven't read War of Kings yet, so I can't accurately judge how much more power Darkhawk has gained since the last time I saw him.

[WolfCypher]

I think we've done this before...and I think I biasedly voted Blue Beetle. Think I'll do it again.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Darkhawk

[SuperFerret]

When I suggested this match, I was leaning towards Darkhawk, but after doing some reading and learning that Chris's armor can be hacked into, I'm giving my vote to the Beetle.

[Hound55]

Darkhawk vs Blue Beetle II - Rumble in the... air..?

[Genesis 1.0]

What SF wants, he gets. He threatened my family if I didn't rerun this match.

THE CHILDREN!

2-1 Blue Beetle

[Silicon Surfer]

Since I like Darkhawk and I hate the new origin of the Blue Beetle, Darkhawk ftw.

[Majic Walrus]

Yay! The same fight again! I still go with Blue Beetle.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

When are we gonna see some alien bug wars? Like Blue beetle vs Annihilus?

[Genesis 1.0]

..........

Annihilus would eat Beetle alive.

I'm going Darkhawk.

3-3 TIE

[WolfCypher]

He HACKS DARKHAWK (apparently)...

[Anubis]

Bb.

[Lobo]

jaime

[CanaryFan]

Beetle

[Genesis 1.0]

The Heir Apparent of the Scarab battles it out with a deadly Darkhawk but in the end, Jamie Reyes schools Chris with a 7-3 blowout.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5730/haljordan.jpg

Hal Jordan

VS

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3990/vision.png

Classic Vision

[Genesis 1.0]

Was going to use Red Tornado but I'm saving him.

[Anubis]

Why? So he can lose to somebody else?

[Genesis 1.0]

Tornado's been able to affect Kryptonian level guys so he's far from a victim, I actually thought that with his speed advantag he'd get a skewed vote.

[Anubis]

Pfft, that guy gets blowed up so often he's become as useless as.....i don't know. I think he's the bottom of the barrel of useless characters.

[CanaryFan]

The Vision

[Lobo]

The Vision

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Vision

[Genesis 1.0]

Pfft, that guy gets blowed up so often he's become as useless as.....i don't know. I think he's the bottom of the barrel of useless characters.

Heh, Vision's been blown apart often enough himself, as have AMAZO and a number of others.

3-0 The Vision

[Genesis 1.0]

Ya know wha Anubis? I'll shift Aztek AND Tornado till later then, I don't want a blowout.

Hal shouldn't be SO much a pushover. He's still going to suffer with he intangibility, density control, growth, concussive force.....


http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5730/haljordan.jpg


Hal Jordan

VS

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3990/vision.png


Classic Vision




This oughta be good.

0-0

[Sparta*]

Where theres a will theres a way

Hal

[Genesis 1.0]

lol, nice pun.

Hope he can will an intangible turned tangible fist through the skull.

1-0 Hal Jordan

[Silicon Surfer]

Hal easily

[Lobo]

Green Lantern

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Vision

[SuperFerret]

Vision.

[CanaryFan]

The old hand through the head trick gets em every time. Vision!

[WolfCypher]

Gl.

[Genesis 1.0]

The old hand through the head trick gets em every time. Vision!

Yeah, it does, that and Vision's smarter and has a nice powerset, nevermind the growth and intangibility.

4-4 TIE

[Anubis]

Vison

[SuperFerret]

Yeah, it does, that and Vision's smarter and has a nice powerset, nevermind the growth and intangibility.

Plus this seems like one of those times where Hal's confidence would be used against him.

[Majic Walrus]

:hal:

Vision wouldn't even get the chance to get that close to Hal. GL wins it all the way.

[Silicon Surfer]

Vision's density reduction won't do any good because even at minimum density his body is still composed of normal matter which the power ring can affect just like any other matter. Hal's shield can stop anything that Vision can do without effort.

[Genesis 1.0]

Vision's density reduction won't do any good because even at minimum density his body is still composed of normal matter which the power ring can affect just like any other matter. Hal's shield can stop anything that Vision can do without effort.

I don't buy that at all. Unlike some people's shielding, Hal's arsenal is dependent upon his will and therefore his preceptions. He's the limiter on his own abilities and if he manages to throw up a shield against Vision then Vision going intangible is outside the original parameters he'd set for.

Like any other living being, Hal's going experience confusion, surprise, and then adjust his shielding as best he can imagine. It's the same if Vision decides to grow and become more dense, we've een Hal's preception of things vary depending on scale just as much as we've seen him cope. It's going to take him a measure of time and whether that's 20 seconds or a minute, it's long enough to have a robotic intangible turned tangible fist through the skull.

Hal can be quite arrogant at times and it's been a negative before, and he's also not used to fighting guys with this powerset.

Hal's going to get schooled and it'll be far from the first time.


5-5 TIE

[Silicon Surfer]

I don't buy that at all. Unlike some people's shielding, Hal's arsenal is dependent upon his will and therefore his preceptions. He's the limiter on his own abilities and if he manages to throw up a shield against Vision then Vision going intangible is outside the original parameters he'd set for.

Like any other living being, Hal's going experience confusion, surprise, and then adjust his shielding as best he can imagine. It's the same if Vision decides to grow and become more dense, we've een Hal's preception of things vary depending on scale just as much as we've seen him cope. It's going to take him a measure of time and whether that's 20 seconds or a minute, it's long enough to have a robotic intangible turned tangible fist through the skull.

Hal can be quite arrogant at times and it's been a negative before, and he's also not used to fighting guys with this powerset.

Hal's going to get schooled and it'll be far from the first time.


5-5 TIE

Why would Hal be surprised or confused? He has fought beings with powers of every description including those whose powers are far greater than Visions. Reduced density means that there is less matter in Visions body. This means that it is easier to stop him with a shield not harder. The shield that he uses to fly in space should stop Vision in intangibility mode without any modification and that shield he almost always has up. On top of that the old "stop anything but sight" command to his ring should handle anything. The Vision really isn't all that formidable. The original version ran from the Super Skrull and didn't even try to fight him because he knew that he was outmatched. The Super Skrull is way below Hal in power and experience.

[Genesis 1.0]

Why would Hal be surprised or confused? He has fought beings with powers of every description including those whose powers are far greater than Visions. Reduced density means that there is less matter in Visions body. This means that it is easier to stop him with a shield not harder. The shield that he uses to fly in space should stop Vision in intangibility mode without any modification and that shield he almost always has up. On top of that the old "stop anything but sight" command to his ring should handle anything. The Vision really isn't all that formidable. The original version ran from the Super Skrull and didn't even try to fight him because he knew that he was outmatched. The Super Skrull is way below Hal in power and experience.

Are you seriouis?

Talk about a character's mythos overshadowing the reality of the character.

Hal has been surprised more times than you can easily count and by much less than Vision's powerset. Hal's attitude, no, his ego often times gets him into situations his ass ha trouble cashing. So please don't try to sell me on this bill of goods that Hal's this unflappable being inapable of being surprised or caught off-guard. That's about as stupid as punching through reality.:o

He's going into this knowing absolutely nothing about Vision, whereas his own powers are VERY obvious when you see bright green contructs leaping out of a ring. Not only is he facing someone with a nasty powerset but also someone several times smarter than him. From nearly invulnerable density with a quick shift to intangibility, to concussive force blasts. Hal' going to have his tiny hands full.

Hal being Hal, he's going to be as subtle as a sledgehammer to the skull, oddly enough he's going to end up with a fist through his skull.

Molecular disruption FTW.

[Silicon Surfer]

Seeing that Vision is an artificial being Hal simply turns Vision into a toaster and avoids the problem of what powers he has.

[Genesis 1.0]

Yeah, guys like Metallo, AMAZO, and the good Dr.'s Android want a word with you.

[Anubis]

Hal Jordan sucks.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Visions speed alone would put an end to this faster than hal could come up with a strategy to defend himself.

[Anubis]

Plus, Hal Jordan sucks.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Yeah, that too. Plus I swear I remember Vision turning invisible before I just can't remember where or when.

[Silicon Surfer]

Invisibility is not listed as a power either by Marvel.com or Wikipedia.

[Genesis 1.0]

Visions speed alone would put an end to this faster than hal could come up with a strategy to defend himself.


THAT and like I said earlier, Hal's about as subtle as a neon green sledgehammer ad Vision's definitely going to outsmart his ass. That's an edge that slices deeper than the Speed and Intangibility.:o

[Mazrim Taim]

The Vision

[Hound55]

Hmm... I thought I already voted...

Vision.

[Silicon Surfer]

Well all I can say is I have never personally seen any particularly great displays of intelligence, speed or creativity from the Vision. While I can't say anything bad about the character he has always been dull and unimpressive to me. Hal on the other hand, while he doesn't possess the power he had as Parallax, still AFAIK has the knowledge to create and destroy universes. You are comparing a character who can change his own density to someone who can manipulate matter, energy, space and time, move planets and survive in the heart of a star.

[Anubis]

He's also dull and unimpressive.

[Genesis 1.0]

Damn, I've already gone into more detail and length with this match than I have in the last 10 so we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.


In a battle of methodical machines and sledgehammer strokes, Hal Jordan, Most Infamous of all Green Lanterns, falls as so many have to an intangible fist through the skull from the Vision, after a very tangible 7-5 asswhipping.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2010/aztek.jpg

Aztek

VS

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9286/wonderman.jpg

Wonder Man

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Wonderman

[Genesis 1.0]

Simon AND Aztek are underrated.

1-0 Wonder Man

[Lobo]

They are. I'll go with Simon

[Silicon Surfer]

I don't know enough about Aztek's power levels to judge so I'm sitting this one out.

[Anubis]

Simon

[CanaryFan]

Wonder Man

[Majic Walrus]

This to me is less about power and more about powerset.

Wonderman: Superhuman strength, speed, stamina, agility, reflexes, and durability
Ionic energy empowered Flight, Extended life span

Aztek: Can manipulate four dimensional energy to achieve almost limitless effects (entrapment nets, plasma beams), superstrength, superspeed, superhearing, x-ray vision, flight, invisibility

Aztek just has more powers that can be used to adapt to a situation. He might not be able to go blow for blow with Wonderman but he won't have to because he'll hear him coming miles away, turn invisible and then use a plasma beam or an entrapment net to subdue him until he can beat the hell out of him.

Aztek FTW.

[Genesis 1.0]

I don't know enough about Aztek's power levels to judge so I'm sitting this one out.


When in doubt, Wiki.:o

MJ, I don't completely disagree with you, although I'd say Simon is just as versatile, his very nature lends itself to versatility.

Ohand I don't see the entrapment net working too well. Not at all.

4-1 Wonder Man

[Silicon Surfer]

I did Wiki him. That is the only reason I know anything at all about him. I had never heard of him before. It does not give me much of a picture of his overall ability though.

[Genesis 1.0]

In that case, he's damn ough and versatile. Think of him as Captain Atom, they're a whole hell of a lot alike, but instead of radiation, it's interdimensional energies.

[Majic Walrus]

When in doubt, Wiki.:o

MJ, I don't completely disagree with you, although I'd say Simon is just as versatile, his very nature lends itself to versatility.

Ohand I don't see the entrapment net working too well. Not at all.

4-1 Wonder Man

I love you too Gen.

[Mazrim Taim]

Wonder Man

[greenrage36]

Just offhand, I don't see the entrapment net being too much of an issue to Simon. He's too much of a beast for that kinda stuff...

In a straight-up power-to-power fight, WM takes this..but I don't think that's how it'll go down..Aztek,IMHO, has more crap he can do aka more variety of powers.

Sooooo...end result here: I'll give a nod to him for pulling some wacky inter-dimensional-powered ability outta his a** to take down the man of wonder...

[Genesis 1.0]

First, I want you all to know that Aztek, Simon, and I are all very disapponited in you.

Two of th most underrated, under appreciated, and unnaturally versatile guys in either Universe battl it out but in the end, Wonder Man flies away from this one the victory after a 5-2 turnout.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3764/allstarbatman.jpg

All-Star Batman

VS

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1133/captainamerica.jpg

Captain America
"Steve Rogers"

[Lobo]

Cap

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Steve

[Silicon Surfer]

Cap

[SuperFerret]

Captain America is neither dense nor retarded, so he beats the crap out of the goddamned Batman.

I am surprised that this isn't Ultimate Cap.

[Anubis]

If it was Ultimate Cap, he'd really kick his ass. Cuz, you know, the super strength and douche bag behavior.

[Genesis 1.0]

Ultimate Cap seems like overkill, normal Cap is balanced out by the ruthless edge that's added to an already formidable Batman in the All-Star incarantion.

So who'd you vote for Anubis?

4-0 Captain America

[Hound55]

I really, really want to vote for the Goddamned Batman... but I just can't...

[Anubis]

Cap of course. Isis didn't raise no fool.

[3dman27]

Captain America is neither dense nor retarded, so he beats the crap out of the goddamned Batman.

.thats affirmative

cap:cap:

[CanaryFan]

Cap

[Lobo]

Captain America is neither dense nor retarded, so he beats the crap out of the goddamned Batman.

Just noticed this quote. :funny: :up:

[WolfCypher]

Hmph...Batman. This is the same Batman as TDKR Batman.

[Anubis]

Which means he'd get his ass kicked and then have a heart attack.

[Sparta*]

Cap and Batman are probably my top 2 favorite characters. I've often wondered about this fight. The way I look at it, Cap and Batman are probably about equal in fighting skill, but Cap has the super soldier serum which would tip the scales in his favor. Pure fighting skill i'd say they are equal, but because of Caps super soldier advantage Ill give it to him 6/10 times

Captain America

[Hound55]

Hmph...Batman. This is the same Batman as TDKR Batman.
There's no prep-time mentioned though.

The closer Batman is to infinite prep-time the closer Batman is to invincibility.

[Genesis 1.0]

Heh, didn't see this coming. It's insanely close as you look at fighting ability, Cap has an edge when it comes to strength but what really tips me is his mastery of the shield. That thing is just deadly in Cap's hands with everything Bats has on hsi plate, that's one too many.

Cap 5.5 / 10


10-1 Captain America

[greenrage36]

the man with the shield comes out victorious in this bout! (btw..nice pic of Cap! Mucho 'Rage approval!!!) :up:

[Ace of Knaves]

I'm going with Cap too. What is Batman gonna do to him if he has that shield? Nothing. And even if he somehow manages to get the shield away from Cap, he still gets a beat down due to Cap's enhanced strength, agility and reflexes.

[Majic Walrus]

What are you guys dense? What are you retarded or something? The goddamn Batman wins!

[Majic Walrus]

Cap and Batman are probably my top 2 favorite characters. I've often wondered about this fight. The way I look at it, Cap and Batman are probably about equal in fighting skill, but Cap has the super soldier serum which would tip the scales in his favor. Pure fighting skill i'd say they are equal, but because of Caps super soldier advantage Ill give it to him 6/10 times

Captain America

********. When did Cap spend his teenage and early adult life traveling the world learning every known fighting style imaginable?

As for strength, it really doesn't mean a whole lot against Batman. Batman has taken out people like Croc and Bane who are far stronger than he is.

[Hound55]

What are you guys dense? What are you retarded or something? The goddamn Batman wins!
How? There's no prep-time mentioned and he's going against frickin' Cap.

The shield counters most surprises Bats could come up with from his utility belt and on the other side of it is the modified absolute peak of humanity.

What's Bats got in his belt to swing the tide? Thermite? Shield covers it. Freezing compound? Shield covers it.

I won't say that Batman CAN'T beat Cap, but without prep time its clearly Cap's.

[Majic Walrus]

I'm going with Cap too. What is Batman gonna do to him if he has that shield? Nothing. And even if he somehow manages to get the shield away from Cap, he still gets a beat down due to Cap's enhanced strength, agility and reflexes.

You're kidding right? You think a shield is going to protect anyone from Batman? The man has been dealing street justice for a while now I think he's got something in his ****ing belt to handle a goddamn shield.

I hope this fight is a night so the star spangled sissy never sees it coming.

:batty:

[Majic Walrus]

How? There's no prep-time mentioned and he's going against frickin' Cap.

The shield counters most surprises Bats could come up with from his utility belt and on the other side of it is the modified absolute peak of humanity.

What's Bats got in his belt to swing the tide? Thermite? Shield covers it. Freezing compound? Shield covers it.

I won't say that Batman CAN'T beat Cap, but without prep time its clearly Cap's.


See my post above.

Like Batman has never fought a person with a shield? In my world he uses a bat-grapple or bat-claw to grab a hold of the thing when cap has thrown it or loosened his grip. Then he ****ing tosses it away. Now no matter what kind of enhancements Cap has he's still not smarter than Bruce. Ever.

[Hound55]

********. When did Cap spend his teenage and early adult life traveling the world learning every known fighting style imaginable?

As for strength, it really doesn't mean a whole lot against Batman. Batman has taken out people like Croc and Bane who are far stronger than he is.
Croc is raw and stupid, also not THIS version of Batman, and Bane broke his back when Bats didn't have time to prepare for him (although admittedly Bats was tired).

Best example I can think of which supports your side is the head of the mutants. But even then dude was stupid and took Bats developing a plan to take him out in the mud...

Cap isn't stupid and there's been no prep time established, both are going in cold.

I stand by my "The closer Batman has to infinite prep-time, the closer Batman is to invincibility." comment from earlier, but without prep-time he's going in against a superior opponent.

[Hound55]

See my post above.

Like Batman has never fought a person with a shield? In my world he uses a bat-grapple or bat-claw to grab a hold of the thing when cap has thrown it or loosened his grip. Then he ****ing tosses it away. Now no matter what kind of enhancements Cap has he's still not smarter than Bruce. Ever.
And in my world, when Batman goes to use the bat-claw on Cap's shield the guy with the Super soldier serum flowing through his veins pulls Batman off-balance and kicks his arse or bare minimum pulls the bat-grapple out of his hands.

[Hound55]

You're kidding right? You think a shield is going to protect anyone from Batman? The man has been dealing street justice for a while now I think he's got something in his ****ing belt to handle a goddamn shield.

I hope this fight is a night so the star spangled sissy never sees it coming.

:batty:
What have you seen, from TDKR, ASB&R and TDKSA that Bats has in his utility belt (remember, no prep time to plan anything) to counter the shield?

I was listing off the stuff mentioned to be carried in his utility belt before and personally I think the shield (combined with superior strength) covers them all.

[Majic Walrus]

Croc is raw and stupid, also not THIS version of Batman, and Bane broke his back when Bats didn't have time to prepare for him (although admittedly Bats was tired).

Best example I can think of which supports your side is the head of the mutants. But even then dude was stupid and took Bats developing a plan to take him out in the mud...

Cap isn't stupid and there's been no prep time established, both are going in cold.

I stand by my "The closer Batman has to infinite prep-time, the closer Batman is to invincibility." comment from earlier, but without prep-time he's going in against a superior opponent.

It's true that Batman could more easily win this fight with more prep-time but it doesn't change the fact that he's smarter than damn near any person he's faced and that his where his edge is.

And in my world, when Batman goes to use the bat-claw on Cap's shield the guy with the Super soldier serum flowing through his veins pulls Batman off-balance and kicks his arse or bare minimum pulls the bat-grapple out of his hands.

Batman does a double super flip and kicks him in the head. :p

What have you seen, from TDKR, ASB&R and TDKSA that Bats has in his utility belt (remember, no prep time to plan anything) to counter the shield?

I was listing off the stuff mentioned to be carried in his utility belt before and personally I think the shield (combined with superior strength) covers them all.

Batman knows everything in his utility belt and I'm sure that he has something to work against a shield. The guy had a contingency plan in place for mental breakdowns and psychic attacks. I think he probably had a plan for "shield" too. :cool:

[Hound55]

The only thing I can think of that might pinch a win for ASB&R Bats is the nerve gas he used on Two-Face's men in TDKR. I can't think of ANY other way this Bats pinches a win over Cap.

And I don't know that that would be enough for Bats to win 5 out of 10... Cap's hardly stupid.

[Hound55]

Batman knows everything in his utility belt and I'm sure that he has something to work against a shield. The guy had a contingency plan in place for mental breakdowns and psychic attacks. I think he probably had a plan for "shield" too. :cool:
ASB&R Bats didn't... at least not one he always kept in his utility belt.

Dude had to prepare to take on Supes.

Had to prepare to take on GL.

That's his advantage... he's a smart Goddammed Batman. You give him enough prep-time he will hand you your arse.

[Majic Walrus]

The only thing I can think of that might pinch a win for ASB&R Bats is the nerve gas he used on Two-Face's men in TDKR. I can't think of ANY other way this Bats pinches a win over Cap.

And I don't know that that would be enough for Bats to win 5 out of 10... Cap's hardly stupid.

Cause Cap is impervious to nerve gas?

ASB&R Bats didn't... at least not one he always kept in his utility belt.

C'mon it's common sense.


Dude had to prepare to take on Supes.

Had to prepare to take on GL.

That's his advantage... he's a smart Goddammed Batman. You give him enough prep-time he will hand you your arse.

Superman and GL are far superior to Cap and required the prep time. The ONLY thing that Cap has for him by your own admission is being a little bit stronger and having a ****ing shield.

That hardly compares to supes or GL.

[Hound55]

That's not all Cap has going for him...

Cap is pretty much peak human+ because the supersoldier serum modifies him, makes him as good as humanity could possibly be.

Meanwhile Batman is merely as good as his obsession will allow him to be. Bats is therefore not as strong, fast and is inferior in most facets of physical fitness because his ability is anchored by what's natural.

As for it being common sense, we're talking ASB&R and the parameters have been clearly marked.

Nerve gas is Bats only chance and I don't think Cap's stupid enough to let Batman keep his distance and use that weapon too often in a 10-match series.

Cap's a tactical genius too, remember.

[Hound55]

Batarangs, thermite, freezing compound, nerve gas and then combine that with the fact that Cap's the stronger guy... won't take Cap long at all to realise that he needs to take Bats space.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

You're kidding right? You think a shield is going to protect anyone from Batman? The man has been dealing street justice for a while now I think he's got something in his ****ing belt to handle a goddamn shield.

I hope this fight is a night so the star spangled sissy never sees it coming.

Batman's been taking on street crime for a while now? Really? that's your argument? Cap was in world war 2 fighting entire platoons of Machine gun toting Nazi's with Tanks, morter fire and air stikes all around him and once in a while they even fought at night!

[Ace of Knaves]

You're kidding right? You think a shield is going to protect anyone from Batman? The man has been dealing street justice for a while now I think he's got something in his ****ing belt to handle a goddamn shield.

I hope this fight is a night so the star spangled sissy never sees it coming.

:batty:

Huh? This isn't some two bit punk with a shield, this is frickin Captain America with a shield. It's completely different.

Cap's complete mastery of the shield is more than enough to put Bats out.

[trustyside-kick]

Captain America. Though I think this fight is to merely show Batman getting schooled...which I'm kinda ok with. I'm tired of everything thinking Batman is impervious to everything and everyone. I used to be a hardcore Batfan until I discovered how the rest of the Batfans are on the internet and ****. It's freakin' annoying and I haven't read a Batman comic since Morrison got in the book. Cap would beat Batman.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea it annoys me too that people thinking Batman could take down LITERALLY ANYONE. And I'm a Bat fan too, but it's just illogical to think that he can beat anyone out there. When it comes down to it he is just a man. Sure a highly skilled, dogged, genius level man...but still, that wouldn't help him too much against someone like Cap.

Batman has prep time? Captain America is a brilliant soldier and tactician who can adapt to anything on the fly. He doesn't need prep time, he's got his instincts.

[Majic Walrus]

That's not all Cap has going for him...

Cap is pretty much peak human+ because the supersoldier serum modifies him, makes him as good as humanity could possibly be.

Meanwhile Batman is merely as good as his obsession will allow him to be. Bats is therefore not as strong, fast and is inferior in most facets of physical fitness because his ability is anchored by what's natural.

Years of devotion and study put Bruce at absolute peak human levels.


As for it being common sense, we're talking ASB&R and the parameters have been clearly marked.

Nerve gas is Bats only chance and I don't think Cap's stupid enough to let Batman keep his distance and use that weapon too often in a 10-match series.

Cap's a tactical genius too, remember.

Cap's a tactical genius at warfare but a fight with Batman is hardly warfare. It's fighting the smartest ninja in the world with a belt full of gadgets.

Batarangs, thermite, freezing compound, nerve gas and then combine that with the fact that Cap's the stronger guy... won't take Cap long at all to realise that he needs to take Bats space.

Yeah. He'll realize it just as he eats the gum off the bottom of Batman's boot.

Batman's been taking on street crime for a while now? Really? that's your argument? Cap was in world war 2 fighting entire platoons of Machine gun toting Nazi's with Tanks, morter fire and air stikes all around him and once in a while they even fought at night!

How many of those tanks did he take down on the top of a high rise or down a narrow alley? Fighting machine gun toting Nazi's and tanks hardly compares to fighting crime on the street.

Huh? This isn't some two bit punk with a shield, this is frickin Captain America with a shield. It's completely different.

Cap's complete mastery of the shield is more than enough to put Bats out.

********. ****ing Hawkeye has caught the shield in mid-air before and effectively disarmed Steve and that's ****ing HAWKEYE.

I dig that it's not some punk with a shield but that doesn't mean that Bruce's plan for shield's is going to be any less effective.

Yea it annoys me too that people thinking Batman could take down LITERALLY ANYONE. And I'm a Bat fan too, but it's just illogical to think that he can beat anyone out there.

It's not my fault that Batman is so endlessly badass.

[Ace of Knaves]

Well even if he does get the shield off him, I think Caps superior strength, agility and reflexes will see him home. It would be a much closer fight though, I think Batman has better hand to hand skills.

But Batman is still just a man, an Olympic level athlete, Cap is more than that.

[Majic Walrus]

Well even if he does get the shield off him, I think Caps superior strength, agility and reflexes will see him home. It would be a much closer fight though, I think Batman has better hand to hand skills.

But Batman is still just a man, an Olympic level athlete, Cap is more than that.

That's totally right and a good part of my point. Physical skills aren't everything especially when they're this close anyway.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

fighting machine gun toting nazi's and tanks hardly compares to fighting crime on the street.



exactly!!!!

[trustyside-kick]

Years of devotion and study put Bruce at absolute peak human levels.

Absolute peak human levels is utter crap because you cannot have peak human strength and peak human agility at the same time, you would have to be better at one of those and worse at the other. And Bats has always been shown to be moreso agile than strong so I'd say it's clear where his upper attributes are. Whereas Cap's Super Soldier Serum actually does balance it all out and make it possible.

And let's make the "crazy and wacky" assumption that Bruce is at absolute peak human strength...he wouldn't be on Cap's strength level still. Cap has punched clean through reinforced steel and such. Cap can at least lift 2 tons and when you compare that to a person who has NO HINT of superstrength? Yea...that makes a huge difference. And you cannot throw in the Killer Croc example in Batman's defense because Captain America is a trained soldier and combatant as well as a tactician.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea one clean punch from someone like Cap on a normal human like Batman would probably spark him out.

[Majic Walrus]

Absolute peak human levels is utter crap because you cannot have peak human strength and peak human agility at the same time, you would have to be better at one of those and worse at the other. And Bats has always been shown to be moreso agile than strong so I'd say it's clear where his upper attributes are. Whereas Cap's Super Soldier Serum actually does balance it all out and make it possible.

And let's make the "crazy and wacky" assumption that Bruce is at absolute peak human strength...he wouldn't be on Cap's strength level still. Cap has punched clean through reinforced steel and such. Cap can at least lift 2 tons and when you compare that to a person who has NO HINT of superstrength? Yea...that makes a huge difference. And you cannot throw in the Killer Croc example in Batman's defense because Captain America is a trained soldier and combatant as well as a tactician.

Croc was just the comparison of strength. But let's look at Bane. Bane is a skilled tactician, trained soldier, and combatant. He defeated Batman only after he was exhausted and only after having months of preparation time to study Batman.

BTW, Bane could take out Cap too.

[Majic Walrus]

Yea one clean punch from someone like Cap on a normal human like Batman would probably spark him out.

I guess Batman will just avoid getting hit.

[Majic Walrus]

Also I just remembered that the one time that they fought Batman did win.

[SuperFerret]

Cap would take Bane out to the learning tree.

[Hound55]

Also I just remembered that the one time that they fought Batman did win.
If I remember correctly the outcome of that match was to be determined by popularity through fan vote...

[Majic Walrus]

If I remember correctly the outcome of that match was to be determined by popularity through fan vote...

Yeah. So? You're saying Jason Todd didn't actually die because it was a fan choice?

[Anubis]

Thanks to that bulls**t, Storm beat Wonder Woman and Wolverine beat Lobo, so that shows you how much that's worth.

[Lobo]

And that wasn't teh onlt time they fought. J:A/Avengers which is actually supposed to be in Continuity, Bruce admits the Cap would win, but it would take him a long time to do so.

There's also this

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q36MT6dUL._SS500_.jpg

edit here's the JLA/Avengers "fight"

http://www.washingtonheightswarlord.com/aj-02-06.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/d/d7/JLA_Avengers_BatCap_001.png

[The_Mighty_Thor]

The time that bats won wasn't Cap hit with a flash flood or something and Bats bataranged him while he was off balance? That victory wasn't exactly an exponent of Bat's skills, it was just a lucky break.

[PaleRider]

Cap. For all the wonderful reasons that all thecap supporters have stated.

[SuperFerret]

All-Star Batman isn't the same Batman that we all know and love, he's far more ruthless and reckless. Cap can and has dealt with ruthlessness, and the recklessness will decide the fight in Cap's favor.

[Chunin]

All-Star Batman

[Genesis 1.0]

Well it's damn good to see that this match has evoked THIS much buzz and debate, I thought it was damn close and despite the results, it really would be.

Surprise surprise, it' Majic stirring up trouble.

In a clash of the industry's Two Greatest Icons, Two of the Best Tacticans, the Red, White, & Blue absolutely shreds a very Dark Knight. Captain America abuses All-Star Batman with a 14-3 shutout.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/49/echogreat.jpg

Echo

VS

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2741/cassandracain.jpg

Cassandra Cain



{{{Requested Match}}}

[Genesis 1.0]

Nice match, nothing I love more than a deadly woman.

Echo

[Anubis]

Cassie, easy.

[WolfCypher]

Depends on who at DC Comics is writing Batgirl, but Batgirl nonetheless.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Echo

[Johnny Blaze]

Batgirl takes Echo down in less than a minute.

[Genesis 1.0]

Batgirl takes Echo down in less than a minute.

THIS is your brain on drugs.

We at the Hype discourage wanton drug usage.:o


Echo, the female TASKMASTER. The chick that's watched f'n tapes and gained the agility of Daredevil, the martial arts skills of several of Marvel's finest, AND the aim of Bullseye is going to lose in a minute?

Epic Fail.


3-2 Cain

[Johnny Blaze]

Yep, she will lose to the chick who's arguably the best martial artist in the DCU.

[Genesis 1.0]

What part of...........

Nevermind.

[3dman27]

batgirl

[SuperFerret]

Okay, I get She-Hulk. I understand Supergirl and Batgirl. Heck, I even see why Spider-Girl exists, but seriously, who the **** was demanding a female TASKMASTER!?

:doh:

[Ace of Knaves]

Hey Taskmaster is bad ass. A female Taskmaster is sexy and bad ass.

But I'm not too familiar with her. Is her powers EXACTLY the same as Tasky? Like, can she watch a kung fu film in fast forward and temporarily increase her speed ten fold?

[Hound55]

You know what... I'm going to go with Echo.

Normally with someone like a Taskmaster or Echo it comes down to experience/desire, and I think Echo has experienced more than Cassie who's still in the early days so far... I mean, the deafness is a huge issue obviously, but I've faith that Echo can stay on Cassie and keep her from sneaking up on her.

I'll go echo to take 6/10... though the deafness is a big thing with someone who excels in the darkness like Kane.

[Hound55]

As with a number of these fights, time and location are HUGE!

You put this in the dark and Cassie has it on lockdown, I'm taking Echo based on like an Arena deathamtch set-up... throw this in the dark in an urban environment and Cassie takes like 9/10 of them... and yes, in less than a minute.

[SuperFerret]

Hey Taskmaster is bad ass. A female Taskmaster is sexy and bad ass.

But I'm not too familiar with her. Is her powers EXACTLY the same as Tasky? Like, can she watch a kung fu film in fast forward and temporarily increase her speed ten fold?

You say the same thing about Deadpool. :o

After reading a bit about Echo, I say that Cassie would beat her, and rather easily at that.

[Ace of Knaves]

Deadpool sexy? :hehe: NO WAY!!! Bad ass? Yes.

I think I can't vote on this to be honest. I know Cassandra Cain is sick, but I don't know enough about Echo or the feats she has done.

[Hound55]

Deadpool sexy? :hehe: NO WAY!!! Bad ass? Yes.

I think I can't vote on this to be honest. I know Cassandra Cain is sick, but I don't know enough about Echo or the feats she has done.
Picture a deaf Taskmaster chick. That's about right.

If Echo can see her she'll hold her own IMO, particularly with Cassie's lack of experience, her big issue is if she gets hit by something she can't see coming... in the dark against Cassie she's boned. But that's not a match stipulation.

To me its not a hard match to predict... so long as you know all of the details.

[SuperFerret]

Regardless of being in the dark or not, all of the Bat-people are armed with flashbang grenades, which will be used immediately if the fight starts where both parties can see each other. This fight would be over very fast.

[Hound55]

Regardless of being in the dark or not, all of the Bat-people are armed with flashbang grenades, which will be used immediately if the fight starts where both parties can see each other. This fight would be over very fast.
That is actually a pretty good point.

[CanaryFan]

Batgirl

[trustyside-kick]

Okay, I get She-Hulk. I understand Supergirl and Batgirl. Heck, I even see why Spider-Girl exists, but seriously, who the **** was demanding a female TASKMASTER!?

:doh:

She's a female "Taskmaster" only by powerset being incredibly similar; she just cannot speed up her crap like he can temporarily do. It's not like she is all geared up and ****. And Echo, for your information, is freakin' awesome. Try reading her first appearance in Daredevil as well as her return and you will love her too.

Mean 'ol SF. You've stung me, bro. :(

As for me I'm still deciding. Because I think Echo might be able to last long enough to where she will pick up Cassie's own moves to make the fight even harder for Cassie.

[Majic Walrus]

I guess we're saying that this is Cassandra Batgirl and not Stephanie Brown Batgirl.

Cassie wins. Echo just has muscle memory or "photographic reflexes" so anything she sees happen she can do. Which is pretty awesome. Except for Cassie has decades of training so she doesn't even need to see anything because she's already memorized everything.

[trustyside-kick]

Yea but Echo has seen and faced a lot of martial artists so not like she doesn't have moves already in her "movelist".

[Lobo]

Yea but Echo has seen and faced a lot of martial artists so not like she doesn't have moves already in her "movelist".

Not to mention she'll be adding Cass moves to her own as the fight goes on.

I say Cassie wins, just barely.

[Anubis]

Just because you know a lot of moves doesn't mean you're a better fighter. Cassie has been killing people since she was 2. Hardcore training? She's had Hardcore life. She is truly a living weapon. She didn't even learn to talk until she was 16 for Christ's sake. Her entire existence has been spent fighting. Lack of experience? Echo's the one with the least amount of experience in this fight. Her being able to duplicate a bunch of moves isn't gonna mean a hill of beans once she gets a nerve strike to the jaw and is down for the count.

[trustyside-kick]

I'm aware of that Anubis, but it's not like Echo hasn't fought several top fighters of the MU and held her own and survived. I just think people are acting like Echo is a total nub just because Cassie is Cassie.

[Johnny Blaze]

I'm not Anubis, but I'm not thinking that. I know you love the character, trusty, really showed in that Marvel Knights arc you did with Harl and the gang a little while back.
But I just don't think she'd be able to stand her ground with Batgirl. Cain would read her strikes before she even threw them, and I think she'd take Echo down before she had a chance to settle in and get a read on Batgirl.

[Genesis 1.0]

Cassie's mythos is larger than reality and if you really think she's going to win that easily, you're so far in the Cassie closet you're finding Christmas presents.


7-3 Cassandra Cain

[Johnny Blaze]

Right on! I'd be all up in that closet!

Disturbing Five!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/HypsterJB/Todd.jpg

[SuperFerret]

Right on! I'd be all up in that closet!

Disturbing Five!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/HypsterJB/Todd.jpg

:highfive:

[Hound55]

Just because you know a lot of moves doesn't mean you're a better fighter. Cassie has been killing people since she was 2. Hardcore training? She's had Hardcore life. She is truly a living weapon. She didn't even learn to talk until she was 16 for Christ's sake. Her entire existence has been spent fighting. Lack of experience? Echo's the one with the least amount of experience in this fight. Her being able to duplicate a bunch of moves isn't gonna mean a hill of beans once she gets a nerve strike to the jaw and is down for the count.
When I speak of inexperience I'm speaking of inexperience as Batwoman.

Fighting like one of the Bat/Night-folk is what would secure an easy win here, I'm just not convinced that facing an opponent like an Echo that Cassie wouldn't be lured out of that and come out going toe-to-toe, which would play into the hands of the one with the photographic muscle-memory...

The flash-bang grenades to me are the major point, that and coming out from the darkness on Echo. Stealth. Cassie's one of the best fighters in either franchise, but the Echo's and Taskmasters are built for those types of fights.

Ever notice your Green Lanterns, your Supermen, your Silver Surfers and Thor's DON'T have a Taskmaster or Echo as a major opponent... it's because they're no threat to non-Street level guys. They're up-front fighters designed to face up-front fighters, because that's who they can actually compete against and are a legitimate threat to.

To beat them the other side needs an edge, like Moon Knight had over Tasky in Moon Knight: The Bottom... where pain is just an obstacle to the guy. I don't see that as Cassie's edge over folk, I see her edge just pure experience in fighting itself. Which isn't going to give a major edge to her over Echo.

If Echo can lure Cassie out of that stealth kind of fight and make her go toe-to-toe she has a chance. If she goes early with the flash-bang grenade this thing will end early.

[Genesis 1.0]

Damn Hound, couldn't have said it better myself.

[trustyside-kick]

Given that Cassie is more of a fighter and not much of a gadget user I'd say the chances of her opening the fight with a flash bomb is not high. I'd say Echo could win, though it wouldn't be easy and would be one hell of a fight to see drawn in panel.

Echo

[Mazrim Taim]

the better handicap

Maya lopez

[Genesis 1.0]

Special Olympics be dammed, these girls beat people into wheelchairs and they've unleashed all their martial arts in this knockdown drag-out battle. Echo gives EXACTLY as good as she gets and better but Cain reads her like a book and walks away with a contested 7-5 victory.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7342/nightcrawler.jpg

Nightcrawler

VS

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5715/blackcanaryn.jpg

Black Canary

[Genesis 1.0]

And HEY, don't vote based on the ass.

[3dman27]

i won't but i still vote for the bird lady

[SuperFerret]

And HEY, don't vote based on the ass.

Kurt does have a nice ass though.


And with that joke out of the way, I think the Canary can pull out a win 6 out of 11 times. It's really a question of how fast she learns to watch for the telltale signs of Kurt's teleporting, and if he can teleport fast enough to avoid the Canary cry.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Canary

[Genesis 1.0]

lol, Devil's Advocate for me again.

I think that by the time Canary figures out wha those signs mean, she'll be knocked out cold. Canary's only as dangerous with her mouth open and once she tries that attack and Kurt bamfs, she's going to get blitzed as we've seen him do before.

It's Kurt's very NATURE to avoid devestating attacks, it's what he does for a living and he's been doing it since childhood.

After taking 8 - 20 blows to the head in a matter of moments out of literaly nowhere and everywhere, SHE'LL be seeing birds.

3-1 Black Canary

[SuperFerret]

But can Kurt teleport faster than the speed of sound?

[trustyside-kick]

Nightcrawler

[Silicon Surfer]

He doesn't have to teleport faster than the speed of sound, only faster than Canary can release it. Having served for years on a team with someone with sonic powers he should easily recognize the telltale signs of a sonic power. Despite Canary's martial arts skill, a blow or two from someone as strong as Kurt will end the fight.

[Lobo]

Kurt, fascinating match up, though.

[Genesis 1.0]

Kurt's always seemingly at a disadvantage when it comes to a power edge but he's become an ultimate solution to overwhelming force. He can blitz all but the most durable of guys and win.

Hell I remember him teleporting with mini boulders and then dropping them on guys. Priceless variation make him deadly.

4-3 Nightcrawler

[Johnny Blaze]

Black Canary. Just can't go against the fish nets. And Twy would kill me if I voted otherwise. :o

[SuperFerret]

Both of them are tougher than they look, and both have abilities that the other wouldn't immediately be aware of. Canary looks the part of the martial artist heroine, but the Canary Cry would catch Kurt by surprise the first time. Kurt looks as fast and agile as he is, but looking at him without prior knowledge of him, it's not clear that he would be able to teleport. It's really a matter of who catches who off guard first, and how fast they adapt to the new knowledge.

Kurt will probably teleport first and tag Dinah a few times, but he's not a powerhouse and typically doesn't take people out in one hit, so I'd assume that more often than not, she'll be able to respond to it. Just as she won't expect the initial teleports, he wouldn't expect the sonics, and her "secret weapon" hits harder than his, so Kurt has less of a chance to respond.

It's a close match, but I still figure that Ms. Lance wins it.

[Genesis 1.0]

When Kurt does blitz people, it's never 1 or 2 hits, it's a rain of blows and despite her prolific cry, she's still just human and has o supernatual durability. A crapload of shots to the head (punches and kicks) will knock her out flat.

4-4 TIE

[CanaryFan]

Kurt will strike first teleporting next to her and cracking her in the head. Dinah will be like WTF was that. Then it happens again. Anybody that reads Canary regularly knows that she likes to give her opponents the first couple shots to see what they're made of anyway so she won't go down or even be hurt easily and now she will have caught on to kurts act and realised that her only chance is to let loose with a full on sustained cry. Next time Kurt pops up he drops to his knees holding his hands over his ears and Canary makes short work of him. And no, it doesn't matter where Kurt pops up. Beside her, behind her, above her, where ever cause sound travels in all directions and if he pops up close enough to strike her he, which is his whole game plan, then he runs smack dab into a wall of sound.

Canary wins!

[Hound55]

Depends how seriously Kurt takes Dinah...

If he knows her power from the get go he doesn't just teleport and one shot... he unloads with a flurry.

If Kurt takes it easy on her it'll finish exactly as you said.

I could see writers saying that Kurt "can't concentrate well enough to teleport away" if he gets caught in Canary's cry either... not that I've seen anything that says that would be the case, I could just seeing some writers writing it that way.

If they're aware of each other's powers Kurt wins. He'll teleport out of range until she runs out of breath trying to bring the noise, he'll teleport in and unload with the combos.

[PemLam]

Nightcrawler

[Majic Walrus]

Kurt teleports in and grabs Dinah, he then proceeds to do a series of short range 'ports. Dinah passes out. Kurt and Ollie get a beer.

Kurt wins.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

or Dinah starts screaming while Kurt is holding her right next to his ear and Kurt passes out. Ollie grabs Dinah's ass and they get a beer!

[Johnny Blaze]

or Dinah starts screaming while Kurt is holding her right next to his ear and Kurt passes out. Ollie grabs Dinah's ass and they get a beer!

I think the Green Man-Whore would like that scenario more. :up:

[SuperFerret]

Ollie wins either way. He gets beer and the opportunity to do stuff to Dinah.

[Silicon Surfer]

Remember X-Men's costumes have sound proofing from the days when Banshee was with the team. Banshee may be gone but Siryn is not nor is the loudmouth enemy, Raucous I think is his name. Those with masks have sound proofing over the ears, the others have earplugs. This should at a very minimum blunt Canary's attacks since they were designed to provide protection from someone whose powers were greater than Canary's.

[Genesis 1.0]

Last time I checked, Canary's assaults tend to be directional, she focuses hem in force toward her attacker, it's not some broadband assault 9 times in 10.

Kurt Blitz FTW.

7-5 Nightcrawler

[trustyside-kick]

Yea I don't recall Dinah's cry having a radius. More of a cone effect in the direction of her mouth. Then again I guess her "creation" of the villain Discord may beg to differ otherwise? That's the only time I've seen her have more of a "radius" effect.

Also, she'd have to use that a lot before she finally nabbed Kurt with it (the dude is insanely agile AND he can 'port) and how long could she really go letting out her cry before suffering from like fatigue and such? It's not like she is Banshee and uses it all the time. It's more like a "all right I beat the dude near senseless and he isn't down...CANARY CRY!!!" or "alright I don't feel like beating this common thug senseless...CANARY CRY!!!" thing with her. That's the funny thing about Dinah. It's like fighting is her superpower and her Canary Cry is just something she CAN do but doesn't much.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Sound is sound. It travels in all directions. Yeah it's loudest right in front of the speakers but you can hear it every where in the room.

[trustyside-kick]

Yea but the argument is if her Canary Cry is the same strength with a radius effect or cone effect. And honestly...it seems like cone is the winner. So that is why it's harder for her to actually nab Kurt with her Cry. She's not Banshee or Blackbolt to where once they scream everything is screwed.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Well I think artist say "OK, she's using her powers here. How do we show that?" and then draw some lines coming out of her mouth in a cone shape. I don't recall it ever being stated that her powers were focused directly in front of her. I do recall her stating that she couldn't use her powers with out talking out her allies when they were too close to her and that includes them being off to the side or even a little behind her.

[Genesis 1.0]

Sidekick elaborated on my point to a T. Even if it is sound and it is heard elsewhere, it's concentrated toward her opponent. Kurt's a toughguy who's worked on teams with sonics, unles he's nailed directly by it, he'll have enough concentration to port away and THEN he'll get serious and blitz her to she blacks out, if he already hadn't at that point.

Chances are that Canary's not gong to nail somone THAT elusive in one go and that's all she's going to get.

7-5 Nightcrawler

[Anubis]

...Canary.

[Genesis 1.0]

Nightcrawler is forced to teeport more often than he's done in years o avoid liquidation at the hands of the devestating Canary Cry but in the end, Kurt Wagner beats a woman senseless for a 7-6 win.

Rosaries were said following the match.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5561/aquamanclassic.jpg

Aquaman

VS

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2430/bishopnew.jpg

Bishop


{{{Loation: Washington, DC}}}

[trustyside-kick]

I'm confused as to how Bishop can use anything that Aquaman would throw at him to help him. Aquaman would beat him down senseless...and me being an Aquaman fan has nothing to do with this. Seriously. lol.

Aquaman

[Anubis]

Aquaman, the guy who doesn't have to overcompensate with the big energy weapons.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Aquaman

[Ace of Knaves]

Doesn't Bishop absorb any energy he is hit with though? And then turn it into a concussive blast?

I think it would be a tougher fight than you guys imagine, but Arthur will take this.

[PaleRider]

aquaman

[SuperFerret]

Aquaman, the guy who doesn't have to overcompensate with the big energy weapons.

Anubis, Egyptian God of Succinct Assessment of Comic Book Characters.

:awesome:

[Silicon Surfer]

Bishop can absorb kinetic energy though such as punches. Bishop ftw. He could absorb heat from the sun and concentrate it to use for dehydration.

[WolfCypher]

Aquaman

[Majic Walrus]

Bishop can absorb kinetic energy though such as punches. Bishop ftw. He could absorb heat from the sun and concentrate it to use for dehydration.

When has Bishop ever been shown to use the heat from sun as part of is absorption?

Aquaman wins this easily.

[trustyside-kick]

Bishop can absorb kinetic energy though such as punches. Bishop ftw. He could absorb heat from the sun and concentrate it to use for dehydration.

Yea he can...but he's not on the level of Sebastian Shaw. He specializes in other types of energy and is a noob when it comes to kinetic. Cykes optic blast is a concussive force so not kinetic so don't try to slip me that example. I could by this is someone like Wolverine or Spider-Man tried to punch him...but if he tries to take any physical blows from Aquaman...he is dead.

[trustyside-kick]

Also Aquaman is resistant to energy and heat based attacks. So all of Bishops shots wouldn't be as strong against him.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Aquaman doesn't even have to hit him. He could grab him by the throat and drag him to the bottom of the sea. Game over.

[Genesis 1.0]

Bishop can absorb kinetic energy though such as punches. Bishop ftw. He could absorb heat from the sun and concentrate it to use for dehydration.

True AND Bishop's limits are unknown, he's been shown to take a pounding and then turn that forceintohis own to devestating effect. Ace was right, this fight is going to be alot tougher than the majority seem to believe.

Bishop also aborbs energy at ALL times, he doesn't even need to focus and with his cybernetic arm, it's more focused and well routed.

Even if Aquaman had his Water Hand, Bshop eats magic like jaMarcus Russell eats Pop Tarts.

Bishop FTW


6-2 Aquaman

[trustyside-kick]

Kinetic energy with Bishop though is another story. He isn't able to absorb it as well or easily. Want a reference? Check Cable (Vol. 2) #3. Point and simple he is no Sebastian Shaw when it comes to absorbing kinetic energy. If he even TRIES to absorb a blow from Aquaman he will feel it and it will hurt him more than he would absorb and he would be mush. If he cannot even absorb the kinetic energy from smashing into a wall, he CANNOT do squat against any physical blow from Aquaman.

[Silicon Surfer]

Concussive force is kinetic energy.

[Sparta*]

Aquaman FTW

[trustyside-kick]

Concussive force is kinetic energy.

When the kinetic energy is from a blast or beam (aka Cyclop's Optic Blasts). That does not mean that if you punch something it is the same. For the last time we are not talking about Sebastian Shaw. If Bishop was as good as Shaw he would be MUCH harder to take down. You guys are reading between lines that do not exist when it is CLEAR he cannot do what you are suggesting.

[Ace of Knaves]

Hmmm in the new series of Cable doesn't he take a beating from some guards and absorb the energy?

Can't he also absorb ambient energy too?

[trustyside-kick]

Yes, because those guards have the same strength as Aquaman. :dry:

I'm not denying his ability to absorb kinetic energy...it's the LEVEL he is at at doing. It's harder for him to do that than to do so with other forms of energy. This has been SHOWN and you are all ignoring it. If he tries to absorb some of Aquaman's blows it doesn't change the fact that he will not absorb all of the kinetic energy from his blows, thus Aquaman would tear him apart with but a few punches. If this was Sebastian Shaw...then obviously this would be another story.

[Ace of Knaves]

I'm not ignoring anything. I just haven't seen an example of him taking a beating from someone at Aquamans level and NOT being able to absorb the kinetic energy.

I just know he can absorb different types of energy, kinetic being one of them.

[trustyside-kick]

Who have you seen near or above Aquaman's strength level that he absorbed the kinetic energy from their blows? Even pre-Waterhand era you do realize Aquaman took on people like the Deep Six who give Superman trouble dealing with.

[Ace of Knaves]

I haven't. That's what I'm saying. If he hasn't had to go through that, then who says he can't do it?

[Genesis 1.0]

Calm down Sidekick, just because you're completely underestimating Bishop doesn't mean we're low balling Arthur. We've said it's going to be hell on wheels in this match and Bishop's going to struggle to his limits. Fact of the matter is you don't even acknowledge that this fight is going to be tough, you think it's a 20 sec match.

So who's underestimating who?

[Ace of Knaves]

Well I voted for Arthur, so I'm deffs not low balling him.

But yea, it ain't an easy fight, no way.

[trustyside-kick]

I will flat out SAY it: I'm not giving Bishop any credit. But that is because he has NO energy that he can absorb in this match to make him a match for Aquaman. Honestly, you guys are putting him up on this pedestal. If he was as good at absorbing kinetic energy as he is with other types (even though it's been made clear he isn't) he would be a much powerful mutant in the X-verse.

[Anubis]

Plus, you know, when in doubt, throw the motha f**ka as far as you can.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Ok one more time. Aquaman doesn't have to hit him. He doesn't have to give him any Kinetic energy of any kind to turn back on him. He simply grabs him and drags him into the water and holds him there until he can't hold his breath anymore. A couple of gulps and the fights over. And for those of you saying he wouldn't just kill somebody like that, he doesn't have to. People recieve recesitation from that sort of stuff all the time.

[CanaryFan]

Aquaman.

[Genesis 1.0]

Well I voted for Arthur, so I'm deffs not low balling him.

But yea, it ain't an easy fight, no way.

Yeah, I know YOU didn't, some peopl can see a match beyond a DC industry face.:o

Anubis: Awesome. Just awesome.

9-3 Aquaman

[SuperFerret]

Bishop doesn't deserve credit. He's just another mutant from a dystopic future with a crappy power that Marvel inexplicably boosted to make him "cooler". The only things that makes him different from Cable is that he's black, he's not a triple amputee and he doesn't make me vomit.

BTW, if this is the waterhand Orin we're talking about, can't he manipulate ice as well (ice being frozen water). If the Parasite can't utilize the tiny bit of energy that's in cold things, Bishop (even with his new little boost :rolleyes:) doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

[Mazrim Taim]

Bishop

[Johnny Blaze]

Aquaman beats Bishop into a bloody pulp, then gets arrested and charged with a hate crime. So, I guess that makes him a winner? :huh:

[Silicon Surfer]

Here's a question I don't know the answer to but it seems reasonable. Can Bishop absorb life energy? Since he can absorb anything else including psi and magical energies it would seem like he should be able to simply suck the life energy out of Aquaman.

[Anubis]

Maybe if the person he's fighting shoots life energy out of his ass.

[Johnny Blaze]

I saw that once in Tijuana. Blew my ****ing mind.

[Genesis 1.0]

Arthur and the King of Marvel Time Travel battle it out all over the nation's capital but in he end, not even future sight and powers that swallow Arthur's, it's a nasty 10-4 Aquaman victory.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9847/mrterrific.jpg

Mr. Terrific

VS

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9237/gambitla.jpg

Gambit

[SuperFerret]

Mr. Terrific

[Genesis 1.0]

How'd I see THAT coming?

1-0 Mr. Terrific

[SuperFerret]

:awesome:

Brains beat gumbo.

[Anubis]

I refuse to vote for Gambit, so I abstain.

[Ace of Knaves]

Same here. I used to like Gambit but he irritates the **** out of me now. The only people that like him are girls.

[SuperFerret]

Honestly, despite the near-total suckitude of Gambit, the guy does have a very respectable power set. I just don't see him being able to beat Terrific.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

The ragin Cajun

[Genesis 1.0]

Same here. I used to like Gambit but he irritates the **** out of me now. The only people that like him are girls.

Gambit owns your soul.:o

Oh and if you doubt my mahood why don't you go ask yo sweet momma?:awesome:


Anubis: So what you're saying is that you think Gambit would win but it physically sickens you to vote for Gambit?

1-1 TIE

[Ace of Knaves]

My momma? You bastaaaaaaaaard!!!!

No but really, Gambit smells :down Apart from 90's TAS Gambit

[Genesis 1.0]

My momma? You bastaaaaaaaaard!!!!

No but really, Gambit smells :down Apart from 90's TAS Gambit

Heh, I've always liked Gambit. Then again, I think outside the box seeing as I like Sentry, Hal Jordan, & Wolverine as well.

I'm going with Gambit, he's got the powerset and the knowledge to do it. Nevermind the fact that several of Terrific's T-Spheres are going to be blown to little bits.

2-1 Gambit

[Anubis]

Gambit owns your soul.:o

Oh and if you doubt my mahood why don't you go ask yo sweet momma?:awesome:


Anubis: So what you're saying is that you think Gambit would win but it physically sickens you to vote for Gambit?

1-1 TIE


Essentially.

[PaleRider]

mr. terrific

[Silicon Surfer]

Gambit

[Genesis 1.0]

Essentially.

That's basically a vote no-vote for Gambit, you KNOW he'd win.

You can't handle the truth!:cmad:



3-2 Gambit

[3dman27]

m'siu lebow

[Majic Walrus]

What exactly could Gambit do that Mr. T can't handle?

Terrific wins.

[PemLam]

Gambit

[The_Mighty_Thor]

What exactly could Gambit do that Mr. T can't handle?
.

Well he could shove an exploding ace up his ass for starters.

[Majic Walrus]

Well he could shove an exploding ace up his ass for starters.

That would be easily blocked by a magic ball.

[Genesis 1.0]

What exactly could Gambit do that Mr. T can't handle?

Terrific wins.

The DC Force is strong with this one.:awesome:


Gambit's 52 Card draw alone will give Holt fits, nevermind the fact that Remy will be able to charge damn near anything. Mr. Terrific's going to be waiting for a disability check after stepping onto a charged section of 'harmless' terrain that blows his legs off.

That's not even counting the fact that Terrific's own sphere's, his only offensive capability, are going to become a dangerous liability as they explode around him.

He and God elp him if Remy gets close with those nearly superhuman reflexes and agility.

6-3 Gambit

[trustyside-kick]

Gambit must spend a lot of money on cards. Not voting this round cause I don't care for the match-up though.