The Ultimate DC/Marvel Tournament

[Teth-Adam]

Cyclops would hold back, he never just releases a full force optic blast, he'll use light ones to try and keep carter at bay, but hawkman will either dodge or just push through them, and once he makes contact its game over for scott.

Hawkman

[SuperFerret]

If the Juggernaut and the Blob have difficulty pushing through the optic blasts, what makes you think Hawkman (who can't capitalize on leverage while in the air) can?

[Anubis]

Also, Cyke, at this point wont hold back. I mean he's got a kill team. You think he wont open up on a b***h? Maaaaaannnnn you straight outta a comic book.

[Teth-Adam]

because of how much power scott puts into the blast, with someone like juggenaut he's really letting loose, he wouldn't with hawkman, not unless he wanted to kill him

[Anubis]

Hello? Kill team?

[Docker2.0]

Scott's putting hits on guys and you say he will hold back?! :doh:

[SuperFerret]

He can only control the size of the blast with his visor, not the intensity. Plus, Anubis has a point, Scott doesn't f**k around anymore.

[Teth-Adam]

so would his first reaction to someone be to kill them, i was not aware that cyclopse was a homicidal maniac, willing to murder someone he's just met, without trying to find out anything about him first.

[Anubis]

Welcome to the modern X-Men. :awesome:

[Teth-Adam]

so the x-men are bad guys?

[Anubis]

Endangered Douche bags is more like it.

[SuperFerret]

As I've already said, the way Hawkman tends to fight would make Scott think of an airborne Wolverine. Reminding him of a douche he hates is not a good way to get the guy to hold back.

[Teth-Adam]

has scott every actually puposefully murdered another human being?

[SuperFerret]

Not technically, since he's not technically a "human being". :awesome:

[Anubis]

I'm pretty sure he's killed somebody. I forget who. Was it Apocalypse? I don't remember. Besides, I don't think it would kill Hawkman. And even if it did, he'd just come back in 18 to 20 years or some distant relative will commit suicide and he just hops into his or her body much like his wife did.

[Chunin]

Cyclops

[Genesis 1.0]

Teth, you are the new Walrus.

If I threw up Spider-Man vs Penguin, you'd choose Penny. :o

[SuperFerret]

Spider-Man's Spider-Senses don't detect umbrellas. True story.

[Genesis 1.0]

He would probably say that.

[SuperFerret]

While we're on the topic, I'd like to see Spidey and Bats trade Rogue's Galleries for a while. It'd definitely be interesting.

[[A]]

Bats against the Green Goblin? Spidey vs Joker?

[SuperFerret]

Yeah. They really match up well with the other's villains, and it would definitely require both to move outside their usual MO to get the job done.

[louiebling$]

Spidey getting gased by Scarecrows Fear toxin could be interesting

[Silicon Surfer]

Bats against Carnage. :)

[SuperFerret]

If I'd do it, I'd have them switch for a year, with one issue a month being one story and one villain each, spanning the biggest 12 from each Rogue's Gallery.

Spidey would take on the Joker, the Scarecrow, the Riddler, Ra's Al Ghul, Catwoman, Bane, etc.

Bats would take on Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Venom, the Lizard, Vulture, Electro, etc.

I wouldn't use Carnage, it'd be too much like Venom and as much as I don't like the symbiotes, Venom is far more important than Carnage. Maybe I'd throw in a few curveballs, like having Batman take on Carrion or Spider-Man pitted against the Mad Hatter.

[[A]]

Spidey getting gased by Scarecrows Fear toxin could be interestingOhh Spidey going mad because he's so scared of insecticide! Scarecrow would own his sorry ass :o

[SuperFerret]

The Fear toxin would probably involve a lot of Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy stuff.

[[A]]

I can see it. Spidey crying.. not again! :doh:

[SuperFerret]

He's an emotional guy, who's been through a ton of ****, and it does take a lot for him to break down like that anyway. (The problem was with Tobey's lower face quivering, not the amount of crying.)

[[A]]

Of course. Comics Spidey is more.. manly :up:

But, wait.. what's the current fight ?

[SuperFerret]

Me vs. You, cage match.

[Hound55]

Eh... Personally I think Carnage would be the way to go with Bats... Kind of try to contrast with Bats like Joker does.

Joker would get f***ed up by Spidey. In fact most individual Bats villains would because they aren't MEANT to go against a guy with precognitive abilities.

Bats would wreck most of Spidey's for the same reason... not meant to go against as resourceful an opponent and one as brilliant as Bats.

To me Bats/Carnage would be gold... liked what little I got to see in the Bats-Spidey/Joker-Carnage crossover ish...

[Majic Walrus]

Teth, you are the new Walrus.

If I threw up Spider-Man vs Penguin, you'd choose Penny. :o

Burn.

[SuperFerret]

Realistically (*shudders*) Batman would need to bring in help for Carnage if Kasady were loose in Gotham, and anyway, it'd be more interesting character-wise for him to take on Brock.

Batman vs. the Chameleon or Kraven (or both) would be very interesting. I could definitely see Kraven coming to Gotham to hunt the "Bat-man".

[Teth-Adam]

bats and spidey already kind of did that in dc/marvel crossover 3, spidey and carnage came to gotham, carnage and joker teamed up, as did the heros (predicably).

back to the main point however, cyclops wouldn't know that carter was an alien, or that he's rutinely resurected, and since scott's only really killed a supervillian, who he knew had killed many, many people, its very unlikely that he wouldn't hold back, unless carter goes on some sort of killing spree

[GlasgowBat]

i find it amusing that anytime someone chooses to vote for a DC character that Gen thinks would lose, they are automatically biased.

some of the most presumptious bull**** i've ever seen.

[Genesis 1.0]

i find it amusing that anytime someone chooses to vote for a DC character that Gen thinks would lose, they are automatically biased.

some of the most presumptious bull**** i've ever seen.

*Sigh*

So many clowns, so little time.

Look here kid, the scores 10-9, by your logic, why didn't I smash the OTHER 8 Hawkman votes? Could it be because they actually made F'N sense?

Walrus USED to be the same way and he admitted it eventually, he manned up and his loyalty to DC remains the same but he actually tries to find reasons for his vote to win that make actual sense. (Except Batman & Hal and nothing's ever going to change that, 'eh MJ?)

I've smashed Surfer, Anubis, Corp, and a crapload of other people who voted Marvel with reasons I thought were f'n BS and they've ripped into me on a daily basis for the same. MAYBE if you paid attention you'd have seen me voting DC on the other side of some nasty Marvel 11-2 landslides.

I'm an Equal Opportunity Abuser.

So you'e trying to make me seem biased against DC just because you and Teth couldn't build a straw house in a f'n barn?

Child please.:o


In actual news:

The Super Bowl of Tactical Minds & Stick-Up-Your-Assedness kicked off with the X-Men's Cyclops taking on the Justice Society's Hawkman. A construction site is beaten to scrap and melted to slag before an unleashed optic blast puts Carter down for the 10-9 count.

[Docker2.0]

I want some of that!! :cmad:

[Docker2.0]

Freaking double post!

[SuperFerret]

I'm gonna start posting silly reasons instead of the real reasons why I think who I think will win will win.

[Teth-Adam]

Just to clear this up, do you think that cyclops would immediately vaporise hawkman with a single full forced blast?

[SuperFerret]

Probably not, but it'd be funny nonetheless.

[Teth-Adam]

well unless thats his tactic, hawkman will be able to get in and fight him, and one blow from that mace and the fight is over.

[SuperFerret]

Ah. I see. This isn't DC fanboyism, it's Cyclops underestimation. It's gonna take a whole lot more than one hit from the mace to take Scott out, and that's if he let's Hawkman get close.

[Teth-Adam]

really, a superstrength hit to the head with large, blunt object would not be enough to knock scott out?

[Docker2.0]

How is it you are making Hawkman this Punisher like character who'd just go up to Cyclops and bash his head out, but yet Cyke sends people to kill on the regular, has killed himself and is indeed a bitter, angry but yet calculating man, but yet you say he want shoot to kill Conner?! :huh:

[SuperFerret]

Sure, if he just stood there and took it like he's Superman, instead of rolling with the hit like he's been trained to do. It's not like he hasn't fought super strong guys before.

[Teth-Adam]

Hawkman is a warrior, has been for thousands of years, and i didnt say he bash his head out, just put him out cold.
And ferret's the one who said cyc wouldn't go all out on someone he has no knowledge of.

[SuperFerret]

Maybe not "all out" but I'm sure he'd be hitting Hawkman hard enough to keep him down. Sure, Scott's gained a killer instinct, and even though I doubt he's the type to kill someone outright upon meeting them he's not going to be nice about this. All in all, he has more raw power, better tactical sense, and a terrain advantage in this fight.

[Docker2.0]

Hawkman is a warrior, has been for thousands of years, and i didnt say he bash his head out, just put him out cold.
And ferret's the one who said cyc wouldn't go all out on someone he has no knowledge of.

Sounds to me that no matter what anyone says, you will find a way for Hawkman to beat Cyke. If Hawkman slept with Jean Grey, killed Emma Frost, tried to kill Havok and raped Cyke's child(Cable depending on what future you go to) you'd STILL say Cyke wouldn't shoot to kill even though Cyke CLEARLY isn't about saving lives any more than he is about saving mutants at any cost.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1575/jla.jpg

The Justice League of America

VS

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1901/thedefenders1.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/836/herculesthor.jpg

The Defenders / Hercules & Thor

[SuperFerret]

That's just not fair. Defenders and friends.

[Genesis 1.0]

Anytime you have Superman, Wonder Woman, MM, Flash, Hal Jordan, & Batman, you can NEVER say that's not fair.

[SuperFerret]

Silver Surfer? Dr. Strange? Both alone could take out most of the JLA roster pictured.

[Ace of Knaves]

Defenders and Thor and Herc.

[trustyside-kick]

:dry:

[Silicon Surfer]

I think I'll go with the JLA

[Docker2.0]

Anytime you have Superman, Wonder Woman, MM, Flash, Hal Jordan, & Batman, you can NEVER say that's not fair.

Exactly! JLA are probably the most overpowered team in comics, and that is saying a lot! But the Defenders gets my votes. Heck, they can beat the JLA without Thor and Herc. SS and Dr. Strange can pretty much beat those guys alone, and you throw in Hulk and Namor and that's over kill.

[trustyside-kick]

Anytime you have Superman, Wonder Woman, MM, Flash, Hal Jordan, & Batman, you can NEVER say that's not fair.

Don't see what Batman has to offer here.

[Docker2.0]

Don't see what Batman has to offer here.

:awesome:Then you don't know a thing about Batman then, or at least how he's written anyway. Dude can take out God with his super powers. :whatever:

[trustyside-kick]

I don't embrace Bat-God, sorry. :oldrazz:

I can see scenarios of how the JLA can win it...but it I just don't know the level of Strange's telepathy and mind defenses. Because I'm thinking perhaps J'onn and Aquaman using their telepathy together after Aquaman takes care of Namor could be a plausible scenario. Though I know that Namor broke some sort of telepathic-spell or whatever you wanna call it that Strange casted and he was all surprised. So I'm maybe J'onn's telepathy will be enough but combined with Aquaman's even moreso? Dunno.

[Docker2.0]

Aquaman taking care of Namor?! :hehe:


Aquaman and MM together can't beat Dr. Strange. Dude battles gods, demons, and rulers of dimensions alone. Can't see anyway they take him out.

[trustyside-kick]

Aquaman taking care of Namor?! :hehe:

I could write essays on how Aquaman VS Namor = Aquaman wins. Just take my word for it. I cannot even count how many times I had to shut people up about that fight.


Aquaman and MM together can't beat Dr. Strange. Dude battles gods, demons, and rulers of dimensions alone. Can't see anyway they take him out.

Yes because no one on either rosters has ever done that. :dry:

[Docker2.0]

No please do tell me how AC does it. He got yet ANOTHER power upgrade didn't he? If we are talking about the classic characters, the Namor would own AM. But with the constant DC upgrades............eh forget. I still say Defenders whoops ass and takes names. :o

[Docker2.0]

Oh geez! Just saw your sig!! It's filled with Aquaman fan.....stuff. Biase much?

[GlasgowBat]

on paper, the defenders team have the edge. They have more power, certainly.

However, i do think that the fight depends on wether the JL form an effective enough strategy. If they realise quickly enough that strange is one of, if not the, biggest imediate threat, they can send the flash to take him out of the fight before anyone else can respond. Then they have a slight fighting chance. Superman and hulk will probably go for each other, seeing as they both tend to launch themselves into battle.
Superman is taking that fight, but not quickly.
in this scenario, Wonder woman and MM will have to try and holdback thor and herc, which is no easy task. If they can formulate a good startegy, then flash would take out strange whilst superman/wonder woman go against thor and herc. Although not as powerful, i honestly think that the experience they have of working together, and the superior tactical awareness, would allow them to eventually defeat thor and herc.

They would be out of the fight for most of the timeof course.

The flash would be more than capable of taking submariner out after strange, with aquaman struggling(but managing to for long enough) to keep namor busy.

the hulk rushes into battle, right from the go, and i think that manhunter could take him. He is incredibly strong, incredibly fast and very durable, plus his mind powers and shapechanging abilities give him the edge. GL would have the hopless task of taking on the surfer.....he wouldn't last long. What we have then is superman, wonder woman(both very battle weary), MM, batman and flash up against the surfer.......who would win. for all the talk of DC characters being overpowered, the surfer is beyond even that.

defenders and co.

as much as it brakes my heart.

[trustyside-kick]

Oh geez! Just saw your sig!! It's filled with Aquaman fan.....stuff. Biase much?

No all it shows is that I have enough knowledge to back up what I have to say because people seem to think that Aquaman has no feats that compare to Namor's. I know both character's great feats and through actually analysis it's easier to judge who would be the victor.

Also, cute comment about the upgrades. I love how people only call it upgrades with Aquaman but not other characters. Also, pre-Waterbearer Aquaman has plenty of feats to show you that classic Aquaman would still beat Namor. Read a comic. :cwink:

[Docker2.0]

double darn post!

[Docker2.0]

Flash's speed means nothing to SS. He's possibly faster than the Flash traveling between galaxies in minutes. He can also manipulate and drain energy so that takes out Supes and GL off the top. So putting WW against the Hulk, Batman against Namor(who won't hold back) and whoever SS and Strange don't take out, Thor and Herc are just waiting in the wings to take out. Defenders EASILY.

[Docker2.0]

No please do tell me how AC does it. He got yet ANOTHER power upgrade didn't he? If we are talking about the classic characters, the Namor would own AM. But with the constant DC upgrades............eh forget. I still say Defenders whoops ass and takes names. :o

No all it shows is that I have enough knowledge to back up what I have to say because people seem to think that Aquaman has no feats that compare to Namor's. I know both character's great feats and through actually analysis it's easier to judge who would be the victor.

Also, cute comment about the upgrades. I love how people only call it upgrades with Aquaman but not other characters. Also, pre-Waterbearer Aquaman has plenty of feats to show you that classic Aquaman would still beat Namor. Read a comic. :cwink:

I said DC characters. :huh: Are you just glancing at my posts and not reading them?!

[Hound55]

The biggest questionmark in this one is Hulk... even with the power of the JLA... He goes nuts then the Defenders have to worry about him as well and expend one of their main weapons in a SS or Strange to wrap him up or control him.

That said, this incarnation of JLA has no counter to Strange's magic... maybe if it were an expanded team with Fate and such it might get interesting but this favours the Defenders + Herc + Thor just far too much.

Namor could just kick back with a cup of coffee...

[trustyside-kick]

I said DC characters. :huh: Are you just glancing at my posts and not reading them?!

No but that's what you seem to be doing. The "upgrades" comment applies to both DC and Marvel characters. But I only ever hear people call it actual "upgrades" when they talk about Aquaman. And I'm not going to explain anything because I've seen enough of your posts in this thread to know that I'd be wasting my time. Fact of the matter is: you don't respect Aquaman so there's no point.

[Docker2.0]

No but that's what you seem to be doing. The "upgrades" comment applies to both DC and Marvel characters. But I only ever hear people call it actual "upgrades" when they talk about Aquaman. And I'm not going to explain anything because I've seen enough of your posts in this thread to know that I'd be wasting my time. Fact of the matter is: you don't respect Aquaman so there's no point.

:awesome: Noone does!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x3U8jzvnHQ

[Docker2.0]

Here's even more! :awesome:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKIV-o6YyUw&feature=related

[Hound55]

The problem with Aquaman in this bout isn't that he couldn't beat Namor, its that I couldn't see him beating him FAST ENOUGH.

Because that's what he'd have to do. The JLA are pretty outgunned here and double-teams are going to have a big effect.

He'd need to beat Namor quick and go help out his teammates and THAT I don't think he's capable of.

I just can't see any counter for Strange here...

SS and Lantern you'd think where Surfer's mastery of the power cosmic should secure victory in every battle outside of Magic Walrus' head.

Thor vs Supes.

Try stopping Herc from being the one going after the Amazonian...

Hulk take on dark batty man and fast man, grr.

That leaves DC with about as good a match-up as they could hope for Doc Strange in Marvel Manhunter... and I don't know that he'd be able to stop him either...

That's if Marvel try to square up on them with match-ups... because if they don't I think they'll take them faster... DC needs the extra man here but I still don't think it'd be enough.

[Silicon Surfer]

Strange wears his profession for all to see. Flash would take him out in the first microsecond of the battle. MM launches a telepathic attack on Surfer possibly combining it with a physical attack at the same time. GL uses a power beam to change Hulk back to Banner and cleanse all other personas other than Banner from his mind. Superman and Wonder Woman attack Thor and Hercules while Namor and Aquaman try to find out who is King of the Sea. GL, having finished with Hulk, joins with MM to double team the Surfer taking him out by attacking him in too many different ways for Surfer to defend against. After this it is simply mop up. Batman sits on the sidelines twiddling his thumbs and realizing he is useless.

[GlasgowBat]

as i said, the best way to eliminate strange is to send the flash after him. before any mojo can even be thought of, he's out cold.

but even then, i still voted for the defenders and co.

[[A]]

I'll go with the Justice League as well.

[trustyside-kick]

:awesome: Noone does!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x3U8jzvnHQ

Here's even more! :awesome:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKIV-o6YyUw&feature=related

I think you will find that I'm not the Aqua-fan to get heated with insults against him. As a true fan, you kind of have to accept that because DC does a poor job showing off anyone who isn't Superman or Batman. :oldrazz:

Even the creator of Family Guy is actually a fan of him. That's simply satire given how everyone views him, btw. :cwink:

[GlasgowBat]

been thinking about it.....i'm going to change my vote to the JL.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Aquaman and Namor could go either way but I'd give a slight edge to Namor

Silver Surfer can easily keep up with Flash and beyond his speed he has nothing to battle on that level with.

Herc would be having sex with wonder woman, whether she liked it or not.

Magic is a huge weakness for Supes and if Strange can't take him by himself he can keep him busy until one of marvels other heavy hitters gets freed up. They way this match is shaping up in my head it would probably be Surfer. Bye bye Supes.

The most interesting matches are Thor and MM and Hulk and GL. GL would most likely win but again it comes down to whether or not he can do it before Hulk gets help? Thor would most likely take down the Martian eventually.

Even though the numbers started off in the JLA's favor I think they would wind up in the Defender and friends favor too quickly for the JLA to win.

Oh and by the way, despite how the comics are usually written, nobody in this fight from either team would take Batman serious! He'd just be standing around in awe waiting for it to end. If Marvel wins he gets swatted like a gnat by anyone of them as an after thought. If DC wins they'd give him a high five and pretend it was his brilliant strategy that lead them to victory.

Defenders

[Docker2.0]

I still say SS can take out Supes, GL, and Flash alone. He can drain Supes of his radiation that gives him power. Plus GL's energy would have basically no effect on him becuase he tranforms matter. Flash would be moving at slow motion to the guy so if SS hits him once he's done. Flash doesn't have super strength so a back hand from a 100 ton guy should do it. Strange against MM.......Strange by a mile. WW vs. Herc....could go either way, though I'd give the edge to WW. Namor vs. Aqua(classic)......Namor. Batman vs. Hulk.....Hulk. While Thor just sits on the sideline in case a upset takes place.

[Docker2.0]

I think you will find that I'm not the Aqua-fan to get heated with insults against him. As a true fan, you kind of have to accept that because DC does a poor job showing off anyone who isn't Superman or Batman. :oldrazz:

Even the creator of Family Guy is actually a fan of him. That's simply satire given how everyone views him, btw. :cwink:

You are not arguing fairly!! :argh:

[Johnny Blaze]

The Defenders and Friends

[Hound55]

Strange wears his profession for all to see. Flash would take him out in the first microsecond of the battle. MM launches a telepathic attack on Surfer possibly combining it with a physical attack at the same time. GL uses a power beam to change Hulk back to Banner and cleanse all other personas other than Banner from his mind. Superman and Wonder Woman attack Thor and Hercules while Namor and Aquaman try to find out who is King of the Sea. GL, having finished with Hulk, joins with MM to double team the Surfer taking him out by attacking him in too many different ways for Surfer to defend against. After this it is simply mop up. Batman sits on the sidelines twiddling his thumbs and realizing he is useless.
I doubt very much that the Surfer would let Strange get picked off in that fashion... Strange is a huge piece in this battle and Radd would know it.

Personally, I think the Surfer could take both Flash and GL before it would dawn on Hal that Hulk actually has another more passive persona in there...

[Silicon Surfer]

I doubt very much that the Surfer would let Strange get picked off in that fashion... Strange is a huge piece in this battle and Radd would know it.

Personally, I think the Surfer could take both Flash and GL before it would dawn on Hal that Hulk actually has another more passive persona in there...

MM also has super speed and would be attacking Surfer at the same time. Odds are that Surfer will be in no position to stop anything. Surfer has been displayed at being very susceptible to mental attacks on a number of occasions. It is quite possible that he would go down instantly.

[Hound55]

To me MM would have his hands full with Strange to be worried about Radd.

Neither side has much other than outward appearance and knowledge of their teammates to go by. It would make sense from an appearances POV that Strange should be the one taking on the green dude who can change shape/phase etc... The second Strange figures out his aversion to fire (you'd imagine Strange would be throwing a lot of different things to see what works) J'onn, who happens to be one of my favourite characters, would be curled up in the fetal position...

Just like Namor should take on Aquaman (because you'd assume one wouldn't think Oh yes!/Oh ****! I'm more/less powerful than this guy). It'd make sense.

[CanaryFan]

Defenders

[Docker2.0]

MM also has super speed and would be attacking Surfer at the same time. Odds are that Surfer will be in no position to stop anything. Surfer has been displayed at being very susceptible to mental attacks on a number of occasions. It is quite possible that he would go down instantly.

You guys keep talkin about Flash and MM moving at superspeeds attacking the Surfer. Let's be real, SS is faster than Flash so the speeds they move at isn't really any advantage at all. As stated earlier, JLA would have problems with SS and Dr. Strange alone, you throw Thor and Hulk in there and they are done.

[Docker2.0]

MM also has super speed and would be attacking Surfer at the same time. Odds are that Surfer will be in no position to stop anything. Surfer has been displayed at being very susceptible to mental attacks on a number of occasions. It is quite possible that he would go down instantly.

Also SS has been shown to have telepathic powers as well but he rarely uses it. He also can detect objects that are light years away and limited psychic abilities. No way MM can take this guy.

[Hound55]

Also SS has been shown to have telepathic powers as well but he rarely uses it. He also can detect objects that are light years away and limited psychic abilities. No way MM can take this guy.
I don't know about that... Surfer has shown he's had issues with mental attacks before, he's right on that.

But out of 6 guys you've got to have the Martian picking out targeting the Surfer. I don't know about you, but I think he's more likely to try and take on Hulk that way rather than Surfer.

I mean, this things going to be all out war in seconds. I doubt J'onn would think "I've got to help Flash and Green Lantern before that guy with the power cosmic f***s them up."

No. J'onn has faith in his teammates... they're the f***ing Flash and Hal f***ing Jordan for f***s sake... Problem is, I've little doubt Rorrin could beat both of their arses, even if the JLA don't know that right away...

[Anubis]

Defenders

[Docker2.0]

I don't know about that... Surfer has shown he's had issues with mental attacks before, he's right on that.

But out of 6 guys you've got to have the Martian picking out targeting the Surfer. I don't know about you, but I think he's more likely to try and take on Hulk that way rather than Surfer.

I mean, this things going to be all out war in seconds. I doubt J'onn would think "I've got to help Flash and Green Lantern before that guy with the power cosmic f***s them up."

No. J'onn has faith in his teammates... they're the f***ing Flash and Hal f***ing Jordan for f***s sake... Problem is, I've little doubt Rorrin could beat both of their arses, even if the JLA don't know that right away...

You don't think SS could beat Flash or GL?! :huh:

[SuperFerret]

The Surfer can take out any five of the JLA pictured on his own.

[Hound55]

I think the Surfer could beat BOTH Flash and GL.

What I'm saying is that J'onn has faith in his teammates and no experience of the Defenders or Herc or Thor... they're from a different universe.

He has no reason to think "S*** I've got to bail out Flash and Hal Jordan before this guy f***s them both up!"

J'onn is going to think that Hal and Flash can handle themselves...

[Docker2.0]

Your right. I read it wrong. Guess I shouldn't be allowed to drink and text huh?! :awesome:

[Anubis]

The Surfer can take out any five of the JLA pictured on his own.


Not at the same time though, and at least three of them wont go down easy at all.

[Genesis 1.0]

First and foremost, I've laughed my f'n ass off reading through this match thanks mostly to Docker, Hound, & Trusty. :p

As to the match itself, I don't think anyone can say that either side has this insane edge on the other, both of these teams have awesome amounts of power, they're all top tier characters, so no excuses.

Surfer, according to what you're saying, DC basically wins every matchup in this bout, which is just bull.

Be realistic, NOBODY can figure what Strange is until he actually DOES something evident and by then, it'll probably be too late because his first deal is a protective spell. Hell, with all the weird powers involved in both universes, magic users are only obvious if you can hear them and that's not likely considering the flight based fighters on both sides will be making sonic booms overhead.

Then there's the F'N Hulk and you ain't gonna hear S**T with him around unless it's incoherent screams.

Strange is the real wild card here, he tends to operate behind the lines while everyone else is being flashy and throwing down and he's shown a propensity to nail the greatest threat to his squad, the Defenders, and I think Supes would show himself to be that VERY quickly. Unfortunately, that's the worst thing the JLA could hope for. So a teamate tries to help? Then they're going to pay for it if they try and take their eyes off the ball.

Once Strange throws up the protective shield, any chance of someone dropping him quickly, beore he does REAL damage is down to near 0.

I can't say who will win this one, it's honestly too crazy and chaotic for me to call right now and I don't know who'd go after who.

Except Herc, he's going after Wonder Woman. :o

8-3 Defenders, Thor, Hercules

[SuperFerret]

Never said it'd be easy, and I'd give him good odds of beating them one on five.

[Docker2.0]

First and foremost, I've laughed my f'n ass off reading through this match thanks mostly to Docker, Hound, & Trusty. :p

As to the match itself, I don't think anyone can say that either side has this insane edge on the other, both of these teams have awesome amounts of power, they're all top tier characters, so no excuses.

Surfer, according to what you're saying, DC basically wins every matchup in this bout, which is just bull.

Be realistic, NOBODY can figure what Strange is until he actually DOES something evident and by then, it'll probably be too late because his first deal is a protective spell. Hell, with all the weird powers involved in both universes, magic users are only obvious if you can hear them and that's not likely considering the flight based fighters on both sides will be making sonic booms overhead.

Then there's the F'N Hulk and you ain't gonna hear S**T with him around unless it's incoherent screams.

Strange is the real wild card here, he tends to operate behind the lines while everyone else is being flashy and throwing down and he's shown a propensity to nail the greatest threat to his squad, the Defenders, and I think Supes would show himself to be that VERY quickly. Unfortunately, that's the worst thing the JLA could hope for. So a teamate tries to help? Then they're going to pay for it if they try and take their eyes off the ball.

Once Strange throws up the protective shield, any chance of someone dropping him quickly, beore he does REAL damage is down to near 0.

I can't say who will win this one, it's honestly too crazy and chaotic for me to call right now and I don't know who'd go after who.

Except Herc, he's going after Wonder Woman. :o

8-3 Defenders, Thor, Hercules

Dude I don't remember telling any jokes! Please elaborate! :dry:

[Hound55]

First and foremost, I've laughed my f'n ass off reading through this match thanks mostly to Docker, Hound, & Trusty. :p

As to the match itself, I don't think anyone can say that either side has this insane edge on the other, both of these teams have awesome amounts of power, they're all top tier characters, so no excuses.

Surfer, according to what you're saying, DC basically wins every matchup in this bout, which is just bull.

Be realistic, NOBODY can figure what Strange is until he actually DOES something evident and by then, it'll probably be too late because his first deal is a protective spell. Hell, with all the weird powers involved in both universes, magic users are only obvious if you can hear them and that's not likely considering the flight based fighters on both sides will be making sonic booms overhead.

Then there's the F'N Hulk and you ain't gonna hear S**T with him around unless it's incoherent screams.

Strange is the real wild card here, he tends to operate behind the lines while everyone else is being flashy and throwing down and he's shown a propensity to nail the greatest threat to his squad, the Defenders, and I think Supes would show himself to be that VERY quickly. Unfortunately, that's the worst thing the JLA could hope for. So a teamate tries to help? Then they're going to pay for it if they try and take their eyes off the ball.

Once Strange throws up the protective shield, any chance of someone dropping him quickly, beore he does REAL damage is down to near 0.

I can't say who will win this one, it's honestly too crazy and chaotic for me to call right now and I don't know who'd go after who.

Except Herc, he's going after Wonder Woman. :o

8-3 Defenders, Thor, Hercules
Agreed... and I'll add the point that even if they DID predict Strange's ability and Flash went for the early win, I've little doubt that Rorrin's Nads would recognise the value of his teammate and throw a block in there for him.

The real wild card to me is if Hulk turns wild and goes against the Defenders, because I don't think the JLA have enough to beat them as is.

Strange is huge in this fight, but the key is Hulk staying as focused as an idiotic rage-crazy pseudo-hero can...

[Hound55]

Dude I don't remember telling any jokes! Please elaborate! :dry:
In fairness... I am f***ing hilarious...

[Anubis]

Wait a minute, is this Strange as he is now or classic Doc Strange? Cuz you know, that actually makes a world of difference.

[Docker2.0]

I'd say classic Strange. You know sooner or later, he will be the Sorcerer Supreme once again.

[Genesis 1.0]

Dude I don't remember telling any jokes! Please elaborate! :dry:

You and Trusty going back and forth on Aquaman / Namor.

Heh, and you said NO ONE respects Aquaman.:hehe:

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1575/jla.jpg



The Justice League of America

VS

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1901/thedefenders1.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/836/herculesthor.jpg


The Defenders / Hercules & Thor


The Dr. Strange from the Defenders sine that's the team in question. Now if it'd been New Avengers Strange, then it would have beenthe Strange from that particular era.

Teamwork's also a major factor in this match, especally when it's such a melee. You have to have guys that are used to using their powers around each other without killing an ally.

[SuperFerret]

Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Silver Surfer, Thor and the Hulk will likely be the first targeted by the other team because they'd likely draw the most attention at the onset of the fight for various reasons. Dr. Strange and Martain Manhunter would likely draw the least, and will probably be among the last to act.

[Anubis]

The strange in that pic is from the Kiddie Defenders, and who knows how powerful or weak that one is?

[Hound55]

SS and Lantern you'd think where Surfer's mastery of the power cosmic should secure victory in every battle outside of Magic Walrus' head.

Be honest... it was this line, wsasn't it you malicious bastard..?

[Genesis 1.0]

Yeah, that's what I was saying about Strange, Ferret. I agree completely.

Which is why Surfer's analysis with Strange & Flash doesn't work.

[Anubis]

Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Silver Surfer, Thor and the Hulk will likely be the first targeted by the other team because they'd likely draw the most attention at the onset of the fight for various reasons. Dr. Strange and Martain Manhunter would likely draw the least, and will probably be among the last to act.

You don't think they'd go after a big green naked guy turning into dragons and s**t?

[Genesis 1.0]

The strange in that pic is from the Kiddie Defenders, and who knows how powerful or weak that one is?

Son of a b___, it was th best pic of the Defenders I could find at the moment, you get the f'n idea you nitpiking little snot.:o

[Hound55]

Flash, Green Lantern, Superman, Silver Surfer, Thor and the Hulk will likely be the first targeted by the other team because they'd likely draw the most attention at the onset of the fight for various reasons. Dr. Strange and Martain Manhunter would likely draw the least, and will probably be among the last to act.
I'd see it as Bats. He'd be sizing them up, maybe throw a batarang to see how they react, but not much more than that til he gets a fair gauge on the Defenders and Thor and the Walking Hard-on.

His biggest strength is probably just a ridiculous amount of "detective awareness".

I'd imagine he'd figure out the board being the source of Norrin's strength early on in the piece and be dodging Hulk trying to think of a way to take advantage of that knowledge.

[Genesis 1.0]

You don't think they'd go after a big green naked guy turning into dragons and s**t?

:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe:

Hound: Yeah, that line went into the Hall of Fame.

[Genesis 1.0]

I'd see it as Bats. He'd be sizing them up, maybe through a batarang to see how they react, but not much more than that til he gets a fair gauge on the Defenders and Thor and the Walking Hard-on.

His biggest strength is probably just a ridiculous amount of "detective awareness".

I'd imagine he'd figure out the board being the source of Norrin's strength early on in the piece and be dodging Hulk trying to think of a way to take advantage of that knowledge.

Since WHEN? Norrin would gladly walk through and wreak havoc in this match.

[Docker2.0]

I'd see it as Bats. He'd be sizing them up, maybe throw a batarang to see how they react, but not much more than that til he gets a fair gauge on the Defenders and Thor and the Walking Hard-on.

His biggest strength is probably just a ridiculous amount of "detective awareness".

I'd imagine he'd figure out the board being the source of Norrin's strength early on in the piece and be dodging Hulk trying to think of a way to take advantage of that knowledge.

Ah geez! Here we go with giving Batman to much credit again. I know a writer will give Bats the power to beat the Defenders all alone but let's be real, it won't happen.

[Hound55]

Since WHEN? Norrin would gladly walk through and wreak havoc in this match.
Are you suggesting that there could be an inaccuracy in Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer... :hehe:

Just like a Home Run Derby... Pitch clean over the plate. Crisp swing. Home run sailing over the fence. People cheer...

[Anubis]

Well, at the very least he would help the JLA remove Hulk from the fight after he notices that he gets stronger the madder he gets. At that point it's, "Hal, throw the dude with the purple pants into space." Of course, once any of the Defenders realize he's the brains, maybe Bat's gets tossed into another dimension to sit the rest of the fight out.

[Hound55]

Ah geez! Here we go with giving Batman to much credit again. I know a writer will give Bats the power to beat the Defenders all alone but let's be real, it won't happen.
Twas the set-up for a joke...

I know how much Gen hates the Bat-fanatics and I wanted to rip on that movie again.

But apparently Gen seems to think that Jessica Alba is smarter than Batman :whatever::oldrazz:

[SuperFerret]

You don't think they'd go after a big green naked guy turning into dragons and s**t?

When he's with the League, J'onn tends to hang back and let the others make the alpha strike before turning into dragons and s**t.

Batman may also be one of the last to act, but even then, there's not much he can do except maybe distract the Hulk or something.

[Anubis]

No he doesn't. He tends to get right there in the thick of it and punch the f**k out of things.

[Genesis 1.0]

Well, at the very least he would help the JLA remove Hulk from the fight after he notices that he gets stronger the madder he gets. At that point it's, "Hal, throw the dude with the purple pants into space." Of course, once any of the Defenders realize he's the brains, maybe Bat's gets tossed into another dimension to sit the rest of the fight out.

I don't agree really. Hulk is nearly one of a kind, there's nearly no way anyone is going to figure out he gets stronger as he gets more angry. I mean, damn, most people get pissed and come at you harder than they were before. Who would think down that lane, even Bruce, it's really a unique ability and it's not exactly evident outwardly.

Not like he gets bigger like Giganta or anything, he just keeps coming like Doomsday. Whoever's fighting him has the best chance of figuring it out and they'd probably think they just misjudged his power.

I'd worry most about Supes (of course) and Wonder Woman. Strong, Fast, Durable Bruisers that have seen it all and have come out on the other side.

Hound: I should have seen it coming, I really should have.:awesome:

[Hound55]

Yeah, on one point I hadn't thought about... Thor doesn't exactly keep it on the down low that he's a God...

I mean Supes often gets pounded early in bouts because he doesn't go hard enough early, but when you're up against a guy who's constantly reminding you he's a God... well, he may be less inclined to hold back...

But to me I still think that match-up will likely stretch out. Thor often gets slapped about a bit at the start of confrontations too... he is very durable. Like Namor he only has to last long enough to support, Doc Strange will take him out if he gets the opening...

[SuperFerret]

No he doesn't. He tends to get right there in the thick of it and punch the f**k out of things.

But he rarely leads the charge.

[Anubis]

I think he'd go after Hulk right off the bat. That dual personality thing is too freaky for a telepath to pass up. Try to mess with his head, and get owned for his trouble.

[Silicon Surfer]

First and foremost, I've laughed my f'n ass off reading through this match thanks mostly to Docker, Hound, & Trusty. :p

As to the match itself, I don't think anyone can say that either side has this insane edge on the other, both of these teams have awesome amounts of power, they're all top tier characters, so no excuses.

Surfer, according to what you're saying, DC basically wins every matchup in this bout, which is just bull.

Be realistic, NOBODY can figure what Strange is until he actually DOES something evident and by then, it'll probably be too late because his first deal is a protective spell. Hell, with all the weird powers involved in both universes, magic users are only obvious if you can hear them and that's not likely considering the flight based fighters on both sides will be making sonic booms overhead.

Then there's the F'N Hulk and you ain't gonna hear S**T with him around unless it's incoherent screams.

Strange is the real wild card here, he tends to operate behind the lines while everyone else is being flashy and throwing down and he's shown a propensity to nail the greatest threat to his squad, the Defenders, and I think Supes would show himself to be that VERY quickly. Unfortunately, that's the worst thing the JLA could hope for. So a teamate tries to help? Then they're going to pay for it if they try and take their eyes off the ball.

Once Strange throws up the protective shield, any chance of someone dropping him quickly, beore he does REAL damage is down to near 0.

I can't say who will win this one, it's honestly too crazy and chaotic for me to call right now and I don't know who'd go after who.

Except Herc, he's going after Wonder Woman. :o

8-3 Defenders, Thor, Hercules

Strange wears a high collared, symbol adorned cloak and a heavy amulet. Both practically scream "magic". Strange has also mentioned himself about how his magics take time to work. Even by the standards of normal human speed, the only things he will be able to throw out would be fairly limited in power.

The Hulk isn't really a threat to anyone except Batman who could probably gas him when he inhales after his trademark bellowing. Although the Hulk shouldn't lose to Batman, it is a possibility. Most of the JLA has super speed, or in the case of GL can give himself super speed as well as ranged attacks sufficient to hurt him.

Given that so many on both sides have super speed of one degree or another the fight could well be decided, though not over, by the time Strange and the Hulk could even decide what to do. For those who will say that such and such character doesn't typically use super speed right off the bat, just because writers ignore a character's speed doesn't mean that the character will ignore it or that it should be ignored by us. Especially since we all think that we understand the characters better than the writers anyway. By the time Strange and the Hulk think their first thoughts of the fight the opponents will have been chosen and the battle well under way.

[louiebling$]

Daaaaaaaaaaaamnnnnn Gen What a line up :awesome:


Its gonna take me a while to think up line ups and who is taking up and I will give my thoughts..... this is gonna be hard.

[Docker2.0]

The Hulk isn't a threat to anyone? :dry: Dude you just lost your argument there. Supes was killed due to a slugfest with DD, and if the Hulk gets mad enough, he can do the same. GL has had his constructs broken by Thor and Herc in the crossover and you don't think Hulk can't break them? :huh: The Hulk is a very real threat to any JLA member, especially Batman!

[Anubis]

The Hulk isn't DD. Unless we're talking about Green Scar, he's nowhere near mad enough to take on Supes, Wonder Woman, or hell, not even J'onn.

[Docker2.0]

Supes is known to slug it out without using his other powers. If he slugs it out with the Hulk long enough, Hulk will get mad enough.

WW won't even look at Hulk. Her attention will solely be on Herc and vice versa, albeit for different reasons.

J'onn Jonz....He and Strange have it out.

[Hound55]

The Hulk isn't DD. Unless we're talking about Green Scar, he's nowhere near mad enough to take on Supes, Wonder Woman, or hell, not even J'onn.
Particularly not the Defenders version...

[SuperFerret]

The Hulk would wipe his ass with Batman.

[Anubis]

Supes is known to slug it out without using his other powers. If he slugs it out with the Hulk long enough, Hulk will get mad enough.

WW won't even look at Hulk. Her attention will solely be on Herc and vice versa, albeit for different reasons.

J'onn Jonz....He and Strange have it out.


Hulk hit's Supes, breaks fingers. Supes hits Hulk, fall down. Turn into Banner. Time to deal with that blond dude with the big f**kin' Hammer.

[Docker2.0]

Yeah but he has a healing factor so it will only make him angrier faster.

[Silicon Surfer]

The Hulk isn't a threat to anyone? :dry: Dude you just lost your argument there. Supes was killed due to a slugfest with DD, and if the Hulk gets mad enough, he can do the same. GL has had his constructs broken by Thor and Herc in the crossover and you don't think Hulk can't break them? :huh: The Hulk is a very real threat to any JLA member, especially Batman!

Even leaving aside the question of strength, Doomsday has super speed as well. The Hulk cannot even remotely compare.

Hal has other tactics than constructs. In Hal's place I would will the ring to send invisible power beams into the minds of all the Defenders at the same time and put them to sleep. Some like the Hulk and Herc could be levitated inside force bubbles whose sides they cannot reach.

[Hound55]

Hulk vs Supes goes to Supes at the best of times (barring Green Scar and older Supes).

Defenders Hulk was even less impressive. Supes would clean him up fairly quickly if given the space to operate.

[SuperFerret]

Have we ever done an entire universe vs universe battle here? That would be like this, only far more entertaining.

[Anubis]

Yeah but he has a healing factor so it will only make him angrier faster.


Not if you hit him hard enough, like when Titannus beat the crap outta him.

[Hound55]

Even leaving aside the question of strength, Doomsday has super speed as well. The Hulk cannot even remotely compare.

Hal has other tactics than constructs. In Hal's place I would will the ring to send invisible power beams into the minds of all the Defenders at the same time and put them to sleep. Some like the Hulk and Herc could be levitated inside force bubbles whose sides they cannot reach.
And if Bats were in Hal's place they wouldn't have a hope in hell to begin with...

But you're not Hal and Bats isn't Hal. Hal is Hal... and dude overuses constructs when you consider the potential power of the ring.

[Anubis]

Even leaving aside the question of strength, Doomsday has super speed as well. The Hulk cannot even remotely compare.

Hal has other tactics than constructs. In Hal's place I would will the ring to send invisible power beams into the minds of all the Defenders at the same time and put them to sleep. Some like the Hulk and Herc could be levitated inside force bubbles whose sides they cannot reach.

YOU would. Hal would make a big boxing glove and try to punch somebody with it. :o

[SuperFerret]

Hal just likes punching the f**k outta guys.

[Hound55]

YOU would. Hal would make a big boxing glove and try to punch somebody with it. :o
Bing!

Quicker on the draw... :oldrazz:

[Anubis]

Bing!

Quicker on the draw... :oldrazz:

Yeah but quality > quickness my friend. :awesome:

[SuperFerret]

And quality = not mentioning Batman.

[Silicon Surfer]

Even the boxing glove would be enough.

[Anubis]

For who? The Surfer? Nope. Hulk? That would just make him mad. Namor? Please. Thor?!? bulls**t. Herc? That would just make him horny.

[SuperFerret]

What doesn't make Herc horny?

[Anubis]

Commitment.

[SuperFerret]

Ah.

[Silicon Surfer]

What doesn't make Herc horny?

Hmmm....a telepathic illusion sent into Herc's mind to make him think that Thor is his sister Aphrodite playing hard to get. :)

[SuperFerret]

That would make Herc horny though.

[Silicon Surfer]

That would make Herc horny though.

Exactly

[Anubis]

Like he's never bummed a dude with long blond hair before. :rolleyes:

[SuperFerret]

Thor's a pretty man.

[PaleRider]

Have to go with the defenders and friends, though it would be a close one and I would love to see it.

[trustyside-kick]

What doesn't make Herc horny?

Lolol. After they all see how obvious Herc is attached to getting his hands on Wondie, have Hal make a bunch of constructs with sexy *****es to distract Herc. Then while he is having his way with Hal's constructs, Wondie knocks him the f out. :awesome:

[SuperFerret]

Diana would probably rip his **** off and flog him with it, but that'd probably turn him on too. Friggin' perverted Olympians.

[Majic Walrus]

Can we get back to voting?

JLA.

[PemLam]

Defenders because of Surfer and a little bit of Dr. Strange. If the JLA were to get the drop on either one or both...then this tilts way over to the JLA side.

[Teth-Adam]

an increadibly tough fight, neither is going to have an easy time with this match up, and anyone who thinks someone will win it easy, they're seriously underestimating some characters.
if zatanna was on the dc team, they would win, but without her its really tough.

oh, and a quick thought on the whole aquaman/namor thing

namor is a creature of the ocean, aquaman has telepathic control over creatures of the ocean, could it be that aquaman could make namor his wee little puppet man?
i hope its true cause it would be the funniest thing in comics history

[Docker2.0]

Namor is half human half atlantian. Plus in all the crossovers they have ever had, Aqua has never done that Namor so I doubt he has any control at all. Plus Namor has the powers of every sea creature in the oceans but he barely uses it. I just don't see JLA pulling this out at all.

[Teth-Adam]

aww, but it still would have been funny, arthur making namor do a merry gig for his amusement

[Docker2.0]

Nah it'd only fuel the gay rumors. :o

[Teth-Adam]

to me, this entire fight hings on surfer, and whether or not he can be beaten, not saying the other marvels aren't serious threats, but the power, experience, intelligence, and teamwork of the league will probably be enough to give them the win.
however, with surfer apparently god (and i dont mean thor type god, i mean doctor manhatten type god) im struggling to see how the league wins.

[trustyside-kick]

Namor is half human half atlantian. Plus in all the crossovers they have ever had, Aqua has never done that Namor so I doubt he has any control at all. Plus Namor has the powers of every sea creature in the oceans but he barely uses it. I just don't see JLA pulling this out at all.

Actually there is a crossover, which is in cannon for DC and Marvel, where Orin does use his telepathy and it knocks out all of Marvel's atlanteans present and makes Namor all groggy and "lose it" briefly since he is just half Atlantean. But, that doesn't mean Orin couldn't do more than that if he focused solely on Namor. Aquaman can use his telepathy on more than just marine life.

And Namor's limited telepathy with marine life is nothing compared to Aquaman's and like you said he never showcases it. Aquaman's mastered it using it his whole life and is one of DC's few actual telepaths, able to bridge through Martian telepath's mental defenses without them even being aware til they've already been breached.

[Ace of Knaves]

I just think Dr Strange takes care of Superman, Thor, Surfer, Herc and Hulk just obliterate everyone else.

[trustyside-kick]

Oh and Docker, before you try to pull some sort of "not classic Aquaman, DC upgrade blah blah blah blah" DC showcased Aquaman's telepathy working on more than marine life well over 25 years ago. Which falls under your "classic Aquaman" category that you like to use for solely Aquaman. :cwink:

Speaking of discussing classic and not classic...does that mean I can assume that this is "classic" Pre-Crisis Supes? If so, JLA wins because they will all be standing so that they can take on Strange and Surfer as a full team. Cause I mean that seems to be what you consider classic, pre-80s. :awesome: [/sarcasm]

[Anubis]

Namor is half human half atlantian. Plus in all the crossovers they have ever had, Aqua has never done that Namor so I doubt he has any control at all. Plus Namor has the powers of every sea creature in the oceans but he barely uses it. I just don't see JLA pulling this out at all.

WHile he might not be able to dominate his mind, he can mess him up pretty badly. He did so in the JLA/Avengers crossover when he took down the entire Atlantean army with a psi attack. Hurt him pretty bad as well. Well enough to stun him long enough to knock his ass out. And yes, Orin is strong enough to do so.

[trustyside-kick]

Exactly. And that was a spread out attack. Not harnessed and not solely focused.

Man I'm glad you finally spoke up, Anubis. Now all I need is Corp since apparently even with how big of a fan as I am I cannot present Aquaman's feats well enough it seems. :oldrazz:

[trustyside-kick]

Oh hey quick question...even though it makes no difference as far as the Aquaman/Namor debate--although his telepathy would be even more enhanced so it would just make it easier--it could with Strange. Is this Waterbearer Aquaman (which is the version prior to death) or non-Waterbearer Aquaman, Genesis? I mean, as Surfer points out Strange's look alone screams out "I'm a sorcerer".

What's to stop Waterbearer Aquaman from simply morphing his waterhand into a shield to negate any attacks Stephen would throw at him and then simply taking him down when he got close enough?

[louiebling$]

After much thought it has come down to this its basically Dr.Strange,Surfer,Herc and Thor who. Are gonna be the last men standing.

Defenders with Herc and Thor are winning this.

[Anubis]

Well, I don't know about Herc making it outta this fracas. Wonder Woman would own him and hard.

[Ace of Knaves]

Hulk would back him up. Like I said Strange would have Superman covered, Batman...would just be flicked aside by someone. Then Thor, Surfer, Herc and Hulk would mop up the rest.

[Anubis]

There's only two reasons why I think the Defenders will win and that's the Surfer and Strange. Everybody else can be countered and flat out beaten. But the thing is, once Hulk, Thor, Herc, and Namor go down,(And at least with Thor I know somebody's going down with him) can whoever is left take out either of those two? I don't see that happening.

[Ace of Knaves]

Who could put Thor or Hulk down though? The only ones who I think would have a chance are WW and J'onn. Superman too obviously but I reckon Strange would have him out of the picture straight off the bat.

[trustyside-kick]

This is how I think the match would start up with people going for certain people:

- Superman vs Hulk (because Supes would probably go after the dude that looks biggest since he'd associate the size with being raw power and strength and he knows that physically he is the strongest on his team)

- Aquaman vs Namor (because I think both would look at what each other are wearing and just notice the few things that hint both being water-characters)

- Wonder Woman vs Hercules (because let's face it, Herc is gonna want to tangle with an Amazon and go for her)

And I think those are the obvious choices I'd think. The rest could be whatever but this is what I'd imagine just because:

- Martian Manhunter vs Thor

- The Flash and Batman vs Doctor Strange

- Green Lantern vs Silver Surfer

So really it depends on when who beats who because as soon as the first dude is down, the hero will help beat down the second.

Quick question by the way...and I think they fought in a crossover but I just cannot recall exactly. How do we know for sure that the Surfer can sap Hal of his GL power? Things are different in each 'verse after all. Like how magic is more raw and chaotic in the DCU compared to the MU. I just don't buy that the Surfer will sap Hal dry with ease. But like I said I do not know if they fought in the crossover that is in cannon.

[Ace of Knaves]

Couldn't surfer manipulate the energy from Hal's ring? If so that would be over in a flash.

[louiebling$]

Hulk would back him up. Like I said Strange would have Superman covered, Batman...would just be flicked aside by someone. Then Thor, Surfer, Herc and Hulk would mop up the rest.
This is the way I see it....I dunno I can see if Herc is getting his ass handed to him... Thor will just fly by and give a lil swing of the hammer to the princess lol

[trustyside-kick]

Couldn't surfer manipulate the energy from Hal's ring? If so that would be over in a flash.

I think that of all the speculation, this is the most wild of assumptions. And I'm not attacking you and your post because others have said in few words the same thing, just you are the most recent to bring it up. Honestly I don't think that the most powerful weapon in the DCU is gonna be taken down like that. While they are not the same, has the Surfer ever encountered and dealt with the Quasar bands before?

[Ace of Knaves]

It was an assumption, hence the ? :D

I'm not sure if Surfer has fought Quasar before. But in theory, can't Surfer manipulate pretty much an form of energy? Exotic energy too?

I mean if so, Surfer could take the fight with Hal into space, absorb the willpower from the ring, and Hal dies.

[Teth-Adam]

Im sick of everyone completely underestimating wonder woman.
She has immense strength,speed(braclets and bullets ringing any bells), durability and increadible fighting skills(she is the best of the best, the champion of a race of supreme warrior woman)
For gods sake she can put up a hell of a fight against a superman who is not holding back, and literaly trying to kill her. (omac project) so can everyone realise that she is no lightweight, she's been at it for decades, and is almost without doubt the best female superhero their is.
And would beat hercules.

[Teth-Adam]

and she would probaly beat thor

[PemLam]

Im sick of everyone completely underestimating wonder woman.
She has immense strength,speed(braclets and bullets ringing any bells), durability and increadible fighting skills(she is the best of the best, the champion of a race of supreme warrior woman)
For gods sake she can put up a hell of a fight against a superman who is not holding back, and literaly trying to kill her. (omac project) so can everyone realise that she is no lightweight, she's been at it for decades, and is almost without doubt the best female superhero their is.
And would beat hercules.

How do you figure everyone is underestimating her? Pretty much everyone has said she'd tangle with Herc (for different reasons) and pretty much own him. Considering he's one of the most powerful and accomplished fighters within the MU, I'd say people are giving her her due.

[Teth-Adam]

louiebling$:
"Thor will just fly by and give a lil swing of the hammer to the princess lol"

[Hound55]

Well, I don't know about Herc making it outta this fracas. Wonder Woman would own him and hard.
And he'd love every second of it...

[PemLam]

louiebling$:
"Thor will just fly by and give a lil swing of the hammer to the princess lol"

Creative license on the part of louiebling I believe....thus the "lol" at the end.

Is she a game changer, no, but I believe WW could hold her own and then some more often than not with anyone this side of Strange and Surfer.

[Silicon Surfer]

The Surfer has had his Power Cosmic taken away from him by less sophisticated means than the power ring. Doom did it and so did Dynamo City. If Hal feels Surfer trying to absorb his power he will likely play the same game and take Surfer's power. Even if Surfer succeeded it would not necessarily be a good thing. The green energy has been shown before to remain under the control of a GL even if absorbed by another. So even if Surfer could absorb it, it would simply mean that Hal could attack him from inside.

[Teth-Adam]

she's nearly as much of a gamechanger as supes, and most people seem to be very occupied with where he is in the fight, im just saying, bar surfer and strange, im pretty sure she could take any of the marvel team.

[Teth-Adam]

you know what surfer, i think you've finally convinced me they could do,

JLA ALL THE WAY!

[Chunin]

Defenders & gods Inc.

[louiebling$]

and she would probaly beat thor
Yea this won't happen New Walrus....:o

[SuperFerret]

Thor vs. Diana could go a number of ways, though I'd give it to Thor more often.

[Ace of Knaves]

I think Thor would smash her to bits. That isn't a slight against WW. Thor could smash A LOT of people to bits if written properly.

[Anubis]

And he'd love every second of it...


...in his pants

[Anubis]

I think Thor would smash her to bits. That isn't a slight against WW. Thor could smash A LOT of people to bits if written properly.


It would be a hell of a fight that's for sure. He may bust up his hammer again.

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea it would be a great fight, but in the end I think WW would be absolutely battered.

[Anubis]

Which means him coming to help Herc out is likely not to go so easy for him, especially if he still has to fight off the Martian or GL, or the Flash to do so.

[louiebling$]

If THOR were to summon a Storm and block the sun with the clouds would it weaken Supes?

Cuz I think in the middle of the fight I could see Thor getting super pissed and summoning the Storm of all storms.

[Anubis]

It's Superman, not Birdman.

[Genesis 1.0]

and she would probaly beat thor


Big surprise you think a DC...nevermind, it's actually a fairly close to logical point. It's going to be a good brutal match, but it's going to be quick with both of them going all out. THAT'S bad for Dinah ultimately, Thor going all out is a F'N nightmare for Supes, Cpt. Marvel, Darkseid, and yes, Wonder Woman.

I'll take Thor 8 times in 10.

------------

Yea this won't happen New Walrus....:o

:hehe: Good burn, Lou. Walrus has become the gold standard for all DC Loyalist Fanattics.

Thankfully, Walrus has evolved.:awesome:

----------

Surfer, you remember what I showed you a while back? Dr. Strange took several shots from the F'N JUGGERNAUT. He got up and THEN defeated him with a nasty spell. You really CANNOT think Strange is going to get dropped so easily by Flash.

And did I hear you actually say Batman would beat Hulk with that dumbass gas strategy?:wow: Dude, you used to have credibility.:o

---------

If Thor brought clouds, Supes would commence beating the brakes off someone with an umbrella in hand.:o



12-5 Defenders / Thor & Hercules

[Silicon Surfer]

Surfer, you remember what I showed you a while back? Dr. Strange took several shots from the F'N JUGGERNAUT. He got up and THEN defeated him with a nasty spell. You really CANNOT think Strange is going to get dropped so easily by Flash.

And did I hear you actually say Batman would beat Hulk with that dumbass gas strategy?:wow: Dude, you used to have credibility.



12-5 Defenders / Thor & Hercules

Strange surviving a hit from Juggernaut is worse than the Hulk getting choked out by a python. It is not even to be considered in sane discussions. Physically Strange is a normal human with normal durability. As for shields he couldn't even hold the Crimson Bands against a wimp like the Hulk much less his ordinary energy shields against Juggernaut.

As for Batman, I said it was a possibility. I also said that the Hulk shouldn't lose to Batman. The Hulk has been gassed before though as well as being taken out by an ordinary power line going into a building. This was by Cap so while very unlikely it is not impossible.

[Docker2.0]

Surfer, you are REALLY stretching it with Batman there buddy.

[Genesis 1.0]

In the end, I'll go JLA. Supes, Dinah, & J'onn have been through tougher squads than this and they've managed to emerge victorious. It's a 3-Way Blitz, and that, ironically enough isn't even counting Mr. Megaton Punch Flash.

JLA


Hype Unlimited, this is a true Clash of the Titans as THE team in the comic industry, the Justice League of America takes on a Marvel alliance of one of the most powerful groups ever the Defenders and Asgard's Finest, Thor and Olympian Playboy, Hercules.

In the end, Superman and the JLA meets it's Magical and Cosmic Kyrptonite and they get curb stomped 12-6 by the Defenders Alliance.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/734/aresdc.jpg

Ares

VS

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5350/lokiv.jpg

Loki

[[A]]

Screw it. Loki.

[Genesis 1.0]

Loki isn't going to fight this straight up, he never does but whatever he has in store is going to be deadly, the natiest godly Magic User in the biz. Ares DOES want this straight up and he's got the strength and reality warping powers to back it up.

An ungodly asswhipping is coming someone's way.

1-0 Loki

[Hound55]

Bah! I thought I was getting a Black Spectre bout for a split second before I scrolled down..

I might take a while to think about this one...

Head says Ares at first since there's no stipulations added meaning face-up, toe-to-toe arena bout, which leans towards how Ares would want this to be...

[Genesis 1.0]

Heh, that's what Thor starts off thinking and then Loki, BEAST MAGIC USER, changes the scene in a snap.

I keep picking matches I don't know how to vote on. :o

1-0 Loki

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Loki

[SuperFerret]

Loki. Cheat to win, win to cheat.

BTW Gen, that's the most kickass picture of Loki I've even seen.

[Anubis]

I'm gonna go with Ares. He's just as devious, and far more powerful....as long as you don't go upside his head with an axe.

[Silicon Surfer]

Ares

[Docker2.0]

Loki. Dude is just to cunning.

[Majic Walrus]

I have to go with Loki. Like SF said Cheaters always win.

[PemLam]

Loki

[CanaryFan]

I'll go with the twisted evil genius that is Loki, wow deja vu.

[louiebling$]

Loki....... He is a cunning,Tricky lil basterd... in no way will he let an olympian god best him.

[Genesis 1.0]

Loki. Cheat to win, win to cheat.

BTW Gen, that's the most kickass picture of Loki I've even seen.

Yes. Yes it is.:o

Seriously though, I don't thnk I've seen a better one, althouh the olden verson with him standing over a shackled Thor is good.

As to the match itself, Ares IS physically stronger and his powers are formidable even among gods, but Loki is, for my money, the most ruthlessly innovative user of Magic in comics. He's lived for untold millenia with THOR, and battled and schemed against him ceaselesly, which I think gives him the edge in this match.

When you're used to battling with someone of Thor's abilities, you're as prepared as you can be for Ares. Loki's devious mind always use his magical abilities to overcome brute strength and manipulates his foe into weakening themselves and it's primed for him to finish the job.

Loki's going to have Ares dancing on strings and Ares is going to go down thinking he's in control.

Loki

9-2 Loki

[Chunin]

Loki

[Silicon Surfer]

Loki's trickery is always behind the scenes. Face front he pretty much always loses.

[Genesis 1.0]

Thunder rolls, lightning strikes, & maniacal laughter sounds as the Trickster god Loki takes on Olympia's god of War, Ares. At every strike and blow, Ares finds Loki has eluded him and in the end, Ares' hopes of victory are all an illusion as Loki wins 10-2.

[Genesis 1.0]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6569/batmanhuntressnightwing.jpg

The Bat Family

VS

http://i50.tinypic.com/35jm4o3.jpg

Iron Fist & Luke Cage


{{{Requsted Match}}}

[Silicon Surfer]

Fist and Cage

[SuperFerret]

Yeah, Fist and Cage.

This is a damn good match up though.

[The_Mighty_Thor]

Bat family

[[A]]

Iron Fist and Cage. I'm sorry but Bat pansies would not help the man* :down stupid characters








*Batman, that is

[SuperFerret]

I'm so in disagreement with you [A]. Of the characters pictured, Batman is the second to worst.

[Anubis]

....I hate to say it but, the Bat Family. Maybe if you threw in the Daughters of the Dragon, but I don't really see this as an even fight. You take into consideration that Luke is immensely strong and durable, but can and has been taken out by various gasses. All of which is, like standard in a utility belt. And while Danny is probably a better fighter than Bat's, and his new powers are sick, I don't think he can take all of the Bat Fam down by himself. They're just out numbered here.

[Majic Walrus]

This is retarded. Batfamily all the way. Five on two isn't even fair.

[Anubis]

I see why Gen went with this, seeing as H4H is powered, that evens things up, but really, it doesn't.

[Johnny Blaze]

The Bat clan takes it for me.

[PaleRider]

....I hate to say it but, the Bat Family. Maybe if you threw in the Daughters of the Dragon, but I don't really see this as an even fight. You take into consideration that Luke is immensely strong and durable, but can and has been taken out by various gasses. All of which is, like standard in a utility belt. And while Danny is probably a better fighter than Bat's, and his new powers are sick, I don't think he can take all of the Bat Fam down by himself. They're just out numbered here.

I agree with this 100%. I want to vote Danny and Luke but I just can't. Bat Family.

[louiebling$]

Iron Fist and Luke Cage for sure..... damn this is a really good match up, Gen your on a roll :up:

[Docker2.0]

This really isn't a fair fight. It's 5 against 2. But I'm voting for Luke and Fist becuase hopefully I'm looking at this wrong and it's only Batman, Robin and Huntress.

[Anubis]

The picture has Batman, Robin (Tim), Batgirl, (Cassie), Huntress, and Nightwing (Dick). That's five and two of which are incredibly good fighters, as in Danny could barely take one of them, much less both at the same time, and all of which have fought and beaten stronger than Luke. :(

[[A]]

I'm so in disagreement with you [A]. Of the characters pictured, Batman is the second to worst.Probably my broken english didn't make my post clear enough..? I mean Bats would be distracted by his minions and that's why he'd lose the *battle* -- he should send them in first, actually :woot:

[SuperFerret]

I was commenting on the "stupid characters" part, as I like all of the other characters (save for Huntress) far more than Bruce Wayne.

[Docker2.0]

Anubis, A makes a great point. Batman does seem to be off when Robin or anyone gets hit or hurt. Plus they struggle with Baine and Luke Cage is stronger and faster than he is.

[Silicon Surfer]

The Bat family is horribly out-powered. Fist has taken full power punches from Cage at his original three ton strength level without even noticing. Cage is at the twenty five ton level according to Marvel.com and tough enough to withstand handgun fire and blades without injury.

[Docker2.0]

IF is a 3 ton guy?! I thought he was just regular strength.

[Silicon Surfer]

IF is a 3 ton guy?! I thought he was just regular strength.

IF has normal strength unless he is using the Iron Fist when he becomes superhuman. Punches from a class 3 didn't even get his attention. Cage was punching him and he didn't even notice.

[Anubis]

And yet, he still got his ass whipped by Shang Chi. What's your point? Like I said, Cage has strength and durability, but that doesn't protect him from gas.

They have trouble with Bane not because of his strength, but because he's about as cunning as Batman. Batman has taken down Solomon f**king Grundy. Nightwing has taken down Mammoth. Both of which are stronger than Luke. Granted they won because they were idiots, and Luke is no idiot,still, his strength doesn't automatically grant him any wins.

[PemLam]

Bat Family

[Ace of Knaves]

I think in the end it will be Bruce and Dick still standing against both Danny and Luke. I think Luke get's gassed out of the game so then it's Danny vs Bruce and Dick.

My money is on Danny against those two. Just...

[CanaryFan]

Batclan

[Sparta*]

Bats and co

[Genesis 1.0]

The picture has Batman, Robin (Tim), Batgirl, (Cassie), Huntress, and Nightwing (Dick). That's five and two of which are incredibly good fighters, as in Danny could barely take one of them, much less both at the same time, and all of which have fought and beaten stronger than Luke. :(

I know there's no legal limit on weed since it's illegal, but if there were, you'd be about 10 times over it.:awesome:

Iron Fist would bust the ass and assorted genitalia of any single one of the Bat Family. He's an excellent fighter and then you throw in the Fist which magnifies his abilities exponentially? He's stronger, faster, more durable, more agile, with killer senses and all around more powerful than any of them alone.

Starting to think Teth Adam hacked your f'n account.:o

Cage and Fist have the power advantage, Bat Family has the number advantage but so does the Hand or AIM. And they've beaten Hand ninjas by the dozens.:hehe:

As to the match as a whole, these fools never lead off with gas; flash bangs, batarangs, crossbow bolts, Blind Fist (Cassandra Handicap Special :hehe: ) but gas? No f'n way, and by he time they DO realize anything else is useless, the following characters will be done after taking a ton shot:

Huntress
Cassandra
Tim

Which leaves Bruce and Dick to take on Rand, who's going to go to the Fist quickly as usual.

Did I mention his already sick martial arts and body are astronomicaly increased?

Or the fact that he's got f'n telepathy againt foes?

Wait it says he destroyed a train packed with more explosive power than the A-Bomb we dropped on Hiroshima and he survived almost unharmed......

Hiroshima > Batman & Nightwing :o


9-7 Bat Family

[Ace of Knaves]

Exactly. I think in the end it will be Batman and Nightwing vs Iron Fist. And I reckon Iron Fist does em both.

[[A]]

And I reckon Iron Fist does em both...as in Debbie Does Dallas ? :awesome:

[Ace of Knaves]

HAHA he iron fists em! :D