Captain America needs to be the ANTI-GI JOE

[TheVileOne]

It makes me sick to my stomach what's happened with GI JOE. Suddenly GI JOE can't be American anymore. GI JOE has to be multinationals and the Americans have to be the villains. GI freaking JOE.

Don Frye said, its time we had someone stop apologizing for being who we are.

If Captain America takes the GI JOE route it will be a disgrace. Captain America needs to embrace what it is and not be apologetic about it. I'm not saying Captain America needs to justify America torturing suspects or POW's or listening to cell phone records or spying, but it needs to be treated as the important, sacred that it is.

Gary Hartle who did the recent MOTU series, Next Avengers, and is currently working on Tales of Asgard once talked to me about how much he loved Cap and how he was looking for reference on Cap, and then Hartle's father told Hartle about how he was *reading* Captain America in the trenches of WWII.

Don't you guys get it? Captain America is rooted in a time where so many were actually reading comics. Millions were actually reading comics in America, that never happens today. And our soldiers were reading Captain America while under fire during the war.

A movie can't take this **** lightly and just deny it because of Obama-fever and because everyone hates Bush. If this movie goes the route of GI JOE: Rise of Cobra, it won't just be a disaster, it will be a failure.

[Webhead2006]

I doubt marvel will turn cap into the crap that is gi joe and i havent even seen the film.

[TheVileOne]

I doubt they would either. But now after seeing what's happened to GI JOE, its equally important to reinforce this.

[FaT_tONle]

It makes me sick to my stomach what's happened with GI JOE. Suddenly GI JOE can't be American anymore. GI JOE has to be multinationals and the Americans have to be the villains. GI freaking JOE.

Don Frye said, its time we had someone stop apologizing for being who we are.

If Captain America takes the GI JOE route it will be a disgrace. Captain America needs to embrace what it is and not be apologetic about it. I'm not saying Captain America needs to justify America torturing suspects or POW's or listening to cell phone records or spying, but it needs to be treated as the important, sacred that it is.

Gary Hartle who did the recent MOTU series, Next Avengers, and is currently working on Tales of Asgard once talked to me about how much he loved Cap and how he was looking for reference on Cap, and then Hartle's father told Hartle about how he was *reading* Captain America in the trenches of WWII.

Don't you guys get it? Captain America is rooted in a time where so many were actually reading comics. Millions were actually reading comics in America, that never happens today. And our soldiers were reading Captain America while under fire during the war.

A movie can't take this **** lightly and just deny it because of Obama-fever and because everyone hates Bush. If this movie goes the route of GI JOE: Rise of Cobra, it won't just be a disaster, it will be a failure.

You are living in la la land Vile. Welcome to the 21st century. No way will the film have that All-American, flag waving, God Bless America theme. As much as I am all for it, it will also be about teamwork. Not just one guy. I don't have a problem with a special multinational allied force to be honest. WWII was a triumph for all of Europe and the world. It's not going to embrace that "America is the best every other country sucks" pompousness we have seen from films past. Don't be suprised if Roosevelt is played by an African American or Hispanic.

[NEXUS 6]

You are living in la la land Vile. Welcome to the 21st century. No way will the film have that All-American, flag waving, God Bless America theme. As much as I am all for it, it will also be about teamwork. Not just one guy. I doubt have a problem with a special multinational allied force to be honest. WWII was a triumph for all of Europe and the world. It's not going to embrace that "America is the best every other country sucks" pompousness we have seen from films past. Don't be suprised if Roosevelt is played by an African American or Hispanic.

If this was true I would do everything in my power to make sure this film does absolutely terrible. If they are willing to change history for political correctness Hollywood will have truly gone down the crapper.

I agree with most of what Vile says. This movie needs to be about the good, old-fashioned America, and her good, old-fashioned allies. We have no need to be ashamed of who we are as a country.

[KatarHol]

It makes me sick to my stomach what's happened with GI JOE. Suddenly GI JOE can't be American anymore. GI JOE has to be multinationals and the Americans have to be the villains. GI freaking JOE.

I'm going to go ahead and say that you don't know what you're talking about.The Americans have to be the villains.........Last time i checked,Cobra Commander was always american as was most of Cobra. Let's see,and going by the movie,the American Joes were......Duke,Ripcord,Cover-girl,Scarlett,Gen.Hawk,and most likely Snake-Eyes.......the 2,count them......2 multinational Joes were Heavy Duty,who nobody remembers and Breaker,who nobody cared about anyway,and he was quite cool in the movie.
The Joe movie was quite cool and VERY faithful to the Cartoon and old comic,if not 100% accurate to the source,it was 100% accurate to the spirit of the old cartoon.
I don't want the Cap movie to be like GIJoe,the tone is different for the two comics and what works really well for Joe won't work for Cap.
I don't think anyone is going to cover up any American references in the Cap movie,you're really reaching for something to be worried about. He wasn't the right-wing,xenophobic,America or nothing nut that you want him to be either. He was all about the spirit of what makes America great,not that our country is better or worse than any other. It's not Obama or Bush or party lines or flag pins,it's about getting his character right. You should read a Cap comic for once and you'd know what he's about.

[Obi-Ron]

I'm going to go ahead and say that you don't know what you're talking about.The Americans have to be the villains.........Last time i checked,Cobra Commander was always american as was most of Cobra.

What the hell are you talking about????

You must have missed the G.I. Joe team's tagline, "A real American hero."

[KatarHol]

What the hell are you talking about????

You must have missed the G.I. Joe team's tagline, "A real American hero."
What the hell are you talking about? The OP was whining that he thought some evil movie studio was making Americans the villains in the new movie.....as opposed to what other enemy Joe always fought? Cobra was always mostly American. Joes were American. It's the same in the movie,i don't know what the problem is. So the tag-line is gone,big deal,it's as close to the source as possible,it's like a live-action version of the cartoon.

[Compi716]

I wouldn't worry too much about Captain America. This is Marvel Studios' flagship character. Yes, Iron Man is more popular publicly because of his movie right now, but Marvel wants Cap to replace that. He's the Superman of Marvel, the character everybody knows (not his story, but what he looks like). They're going to take extra careful steps to not screw this one up.

[MilkmanDan]

It makes me sick to my stomach what's happened with GI JOE. Suddenly GI JOE can't be American anymore. GI JOE has to be multinationals and the Americans have to be the villains. GI freaking JOE.The movie has a hero called Captain America and Nazis as villains. I don't think it's humanly possible to make this movie lose its inherent patriotic qualities.

A movie can't take this **** lightly and just deny it because of Obama-fever and because everyone hates Bush. Wait... I though that, thanks to Obama, it's once again cool for us decadent, Euro-trash treehuggers to admit liking America?

[The Infernal]

Wait... I though that, thanks to Obama, it's once again cool for us decadent, Euro-trash treehuggers to admit liking America?

I believe that was the deal.

Though the villain was Scottish (och Aye and all that. Yay). The film didn't have Cobra Commander until the end.

Mind you, I gotta admit that it didn't feel necessary to have them multinational, but it still worked and it was a good film.

Though from what I hear about Captain America, it's aiming to be more like Saving Private Ryan. That should be American enough for everyone.

[bunk]

This thread is full of so much fail it isn't even funny.

[KatarHol]

This thread is full of so much fail it isn't even funny.
Like that goofy-looking homemade Superman costume in your pic?:oldrazz:

[TheVileOne]

Wait... I though that, thanks to Obama, it's once again cool for us decadent, Euro-trash treehuggers to admit liking America?

Which in itself is also ********.


What the hell are you talking about? The OP was whining that he thought some evil movie studio was making Americans the villains in the new movie.....as opposed to what other enemy Joe always fought? Cobra was always mostly American. Joes were American. It's the same in the movie,i don't know what the problem is. So the tag-line is gone,big deal,it's as close to the source as possible,it's like a live-action version of the cartoon.

Nope. They had to make the group full of multinationals to make it more politically correct. And Baroness is also American now. ********.

[TheDarkKnight08]

Like that goofy-looking homemade Superman costume in your pic?:oldrazz:

Least he's got an avvy.


:oldrazz: Kidding



Anyways, as much as I liked GI Joe, I do understand that Amercan cinema is losing it's touch on being patriotic. All this **** about America being behind every evil scheme and constantly spying on everyone, especially in movies get annoying real fast. Captain America is set to bring that back, though I'm extremely fearful the director's one of those guys that favor bringing in all audiences and demographics, so the whole "America" thing might be turned down a few notches.

[KatarHol]

Which in itself is also ********.



Nope. They had to make the group full of multinationals to make it more politically correct. And Baroness is also American now. ********.
2 of the featured Joes weren't American,Big deal. Larry Hama always intended Baroness to American. Try again.

[bunk]

Like that goofy-looking homemade Superman costume in your pic?:oldrazz:

I'm glad you agree this thread is full of fail.

[KatarHol]

I'm glad you agree this thread is full of fail.
Eh,you're right,but i'm bored and it's fun to argue.

[TheVileOne]

2 of the featured Joes weren't American,Big deal. Larry Hama always intended Baroness to American. Try again.

Baroness has never been American, and if he intended that, why didn't do it in the 150 issues plus the numerous other stories he's written?

Cover Girl, Breaker, Scarlett, and Heavy Duty were all multinationals. Snake Eyes was probably French or something.

I'm glad you agree this thread is full of fail.

Why? Because there are people that actually don't want a movie to apologize for being about Captain America?

[bunk]

Why? Because there are people that actually don't want a movie to apologize for being about Captain America?

Oh, is that what I'm supposed to decipher out of the inane arguing? Lol..

[TheDarkKnight08]

Baroness has never been American, and if he intended that, why didn't do it in the 150 issues plus the numerous other stories he's written?

Cover Girl, Breaker, Scarlett, and Heavy Duty were all multinationals. Snake Eyes was probably French or something.



Why? Because there are people that actually don't want a movie to apologize for being about Captain America?

What makes you think that? The one line Snake Eyes has, as a kid, is him screaming "NO!" after his master got killed, and it sounded pretty American. Plus, whether he said that or not, you're just over-reaching with that. And Scarlett was American. Where you got the idea she wasn't is beyond me.

[Wally West]

It makes me sick to my stomach what's happened with GI JOE. Suddenly GI JOE can't be American anymore. GI JOE has to be multinationals and the Americans have to be the villains. GI freaking JOE.

Don Frye said, its time we had someone stop apologizing for being who we are.

If Captain America takes the GI JOE route it will be a disgrace. Captain America needs to embrace what it is and not be apologetic about it. I'm not saying Captain America needs to justify America torturing suspects or POW's or listening to cell phone records or spying, but it needs to be treated as the important, sacred that it is.

Gary Hartle who did the recent MOTU series, Next Avengers, and is currently working on Tales of Asgard once talked to me about how much he loved Cap and how he was looking for reference on Cap, and then Hartle's father told Hartle about how he was *reading* Captain America in the trenches of WWII.

Don't you guys get it? Captain America is rooted in a time where so many were actually reading comics. Millions were actually reading comics in America, that never happens today. And our soldiers were reading Captain America while under fire during the war.

A movie can't take this **** lightly and just deny it because of Obama-fever and because everyone hates Bush. If this movie goes the route of GI JOE: Rise of Cobra, it won't just be a disaster, it will be a failure.

I think setting the film in WWII makes it less likely that they'll shy away from the U.S. being portrayed as a great nation. The U.S. did not enter the war until after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Although there have been some wars since envolving the U.S. that I feel could have/should have been avoided, (some being particularly unpopular in the eyes of much of the rest of world) - WWII was a war that had to be fought. As an American it is a part of our history that I'm particularly proud of. I definately hope that I feel that when I'm watching this film.

At the same time, the studio will almost certainly tread these waters with some diplomacy. I'd say it's pretty much a given that they'll make an effort to highlight the contributions of the other Allies, as an attempt to make it more accessible. While I agree this film must not shy away from being patriotic, they're going to be mindful of over-doing it to the point that it stiffles the films foriegn box-office potential.

[TheVileOne]

Why?

Did you see Bayformers? Michael Bay even bashes Obama in that turd.

[Katsuro]

We have no need to be ashamed of who we are as a country.

We really, really, really do.

[Wally West]

Why?

Did you see Bayformers? Michael Bay even bashes Obama in that turd.

Were you asking me that? Bashing a current U.S. president in an American film doesn't hurt the foreign box office at all. Most of the time it will sit just fine with roughly half of the American audience as well.

My point was that although some is definately needed, too much American patriotism in the film could easily translate into poor box office numbers over seas. At the same time this is a story about an American hero, fighting in a specific period of time where things were more black and white, and America was fighting an aggressive enemy with the fate of the free world hanging in the balance. For that reason I don't think you should be too worried that the film will be filled with anti-american sentiment. Once Cap wakes up in the 21st century and recieves a history lesson regarding all that's happened since then in Avengers - it might be a different story.

BTW I did see TF:ROTF, but I don't even remember Bay bashing Obama. I guess I either repressed most of that theater experience, or it just wasn't a very memorable film.

[Spider-Vader]

I believe that was the deal.

Though the villain was Scottish (och Aye and all that. Yay). The film didn't have Cobra Commander until the end.

Mind you, I gotta admit that it didn't feel necessary to have them multinational, but it still worked and it was a good film.

Though from what I hear about Captain America, it's aiming to be more like Saving Private Ryan. That should be American enough for everyone.
I heard it was more like Indiana Jones. (The fun tone, not the artifact finding)

[Obi-Ron]

We really, really, really do.

Wrong. If you're so ashamed of your country get the **** out, we don't want you.

[Spider-Vader]

Yup. I do think this movie shouldn't shy away from America. Especially since this was during the hayday of patriotism.

Though, I have a feeling it won't shove the flag down your throat because it needs money from the International box office. Where (almost) everyone hates us.

There's a few cool country like Japan, the countries in the UK & Austrailia.

[KatarHol]

Wrong. If you're so ashamed of your country get the **** out, we don't want you.
That's not a very Cap response,why are you even on this board? I swear,some of you people expect or want Cap to act like Nuke or the Comedian in this new movie. Some kind of right-wing flag-humping terrorist. Have any of you even read a Cap comic book?
Cap is our biggest cheerleader,but he's also the first not to take any BS from our goverment,he's not blindly patriotic,he knows our faults just as he knows our strengths. Hell,he's quit the job 2 or 3 times now because of his integrity. He's more of a Liberal character,but he's not all Left or all right,he's perfect. He'd be against the Iraq war,against Torture,Against Wire-tapping,hell,he'd probably shut down Gitmo personally.
There's also more to the character than the flag,it's just one part of what makes him awesome,they're not going to shy away from the patriotic side of him,and i don't know why anyone would think they would.......probably some kind of Hannity/Beck fear-mongering of a perceived attack on values that's not actually going to ever happen.

[Triad]

OK, let's drop the politics, please? I'm very adamant about my personal political views & not all people agree with them. (Especially after this last election!) But I sure as heck don't come to the SHH boards to argue about it. I always refrain when the urge to reply to someone's political post hits me.
The Captain America movie should address his patriotism and if they decide to go the route of him butting heads with the government later, then so be it. (Personally, I hope that they don't)

[Triad]

All being said, Cap America stands for truth, justice, freedom and the "American way" - not necessarily the American government. The less government - the better, I say! That is true freedom. That's the way our forefathers intended it, anyway!

[Compi716]

That's not a very Cap response,why are you even on this board? I swear,some of you people expect or want Cap to act like Nuke or the Comedian in this new movie. Some kind of right-wing flag-humping terrorist. Have any of you even read a Cap comic book?
Cap is our biggest cheerleader,but he's also the first not to take any BS from our goverment,he's not blindly patriotic,he knows our faults just as he knows our strengths. Hell,he's quit the job 2 or 3 times now because of his integrity. He's more of a Liberal character,but he's not all Left or all right,he's perfect. He'd be against the Iraq war,against Torture,Against Wire-tapping,hell,he'd probably shut down Gitmo personally.
There's also more to the character than the flag,it's just one part of what makes him awesome,they're not going to shy away from the patriotic side of him,and i don't know why anyone would think they would.......probably some kind of Hannity/Beck fear-mongering of a perceived attack on values that's not actually going to ever happen.
Eh, I don't really know about that. The way I've always read the character is that he stands against evil...so if there are terrorists in Iraq, he's go after them.

[KatarHol]

Eh, I don't really know about that. The way I've always read the character is that he stands against evil...so if there are terrorists in Iraq, he's go after them.
Well duh,he'd personally go after terrorists in Iraq,but he'd be opposed to an invasion of the entire country. He stands against evil and wrongdoing,that goes for all sides. Did you read the tale,where the goverment "arranged" to have him frozen and lost at sea,so he wouldn't stand in the way of us dropping the A-bomb. I hate that story,because it's dumb and i like him going out stopping a Nazi missile,but it goes to show you that he's not about to let even his own goverment get away with something he's opposed to. I favor the A-bomb dropping BTW,it saved millions of potential deaths if we had just invaded.
Also,there's a story from the '80s where he had no choice but to shoot someone(It's a great Mike Zeck cover shot of him shooting a Uzi) and he's just destroyed with guilt for several issues,same with killing Baron Blood. He should kill only in war-time mainly.

[Wally West]

Eh, I don't really know about that. The way I've always read the character is that he stands against evil...so if there are terrorists in Iraq, he's go after them.

Cap would be all about going after terrorists in Iraq or wherever else(by himself or with the avengers) I doubt he'd have been in favor of invading Iraq against the wishes of most of the free world, and fighting a war that has cost thousands of american troops thier lives, not to mention far more innocent Iraqi civilians. I really doubt he'd have been behind it when he found out the intelligence that was used to justify the war (that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction) was incorrect.

He'd almost certainly be against torture. Cap is all about fighting evil, but he's not gonna act like a villian to win, he'd find another way.

[TheVileOne]

The Bayformers movies are full of flag waving America loving patriotism and they draw HUGE numbers.

[Spider-Vader]

Not really. Bay only likes the military, he hates the government.

[NEXUS 6]

As far as the left-wing, right-wing debate goes, Captain America is from a conservative time period. I'm not saying the movie shoud force political views down our throat either way, but as far as the views and morals of Cap as a character, he should fit the era.

[KatarHol]

As far as the left-wing, right-wing debate goes, Captain America is from a conservative time period. I'm not saying the movie shoud force political views down our throat either way, but as far as the views and morals of Cap as a character, he should fit the era.
They had liberals in that time period as well. I'd say he's a very tolerant conservative. He's probably straight down the middle but leans left. His recent Civil War actions back this up.

[NEXUS 6]

I know they had liberals, but as a whole this country has been swinging farther and farther left.

I agree Cap is down the middle, though I would have him leaning to the right a tad.

[KatarHol]

I know they had liberals, but as a whole this country has been swinging farther and farther left.

I agree Cap is down the middle, though I would have him leaning to the right a tad.
Ha,depends on where you live! Here in TN,my liberal ass is quite rare among my friends and co-workers!
I see Cap as the kind of guy in the '40s who'd go out of his way to make a black person feel welcome and make damn sure that guy got the same treatment in a restaurant or Hotel as Steve Rogers would get,that would be pretty liberal back then seeing as how Brooklyn treated Jackie Robinson in '47 or how Boston later treated Bill Russell.
Nowadays,he would wince at a gay pride parade but he'd be the first to defend it.

[TheVileOne]

They had liberals in that time period as well. I'd say he's a very tolerant conservative. He's probably straight down the middle but leans left. His recent Civil War actions back this up.

Civil War was a stupid story with a lot of OOC crap.

"We are just fighting and destroying everything around us. And I'm just realizing it now?!"

[Wally West]

I think the thing about Captain America is that it's good if liberals can see him as being down the middle but maybe leaning slightly toward the left, and conservatives can see him as being down the middle but maybe leaning slightly toward the right. Obviously they should avoid Cap reacting to controversial issues like abortion, or gay marriage like the plague because if he takes a side it's a turn off to roughly half the American audience. Cap has to be someone who can be respected by both Democrats and Republicans.

[bunk]

Well Cap's a soldier, he wouldn't feel the need to involve himself in political issues, he would stay focused on his missions. He would however not need to stop and think about civil and human rights. He would be on the side of the oppressed every time.

[TheVileOne]

The thing is, generally when you put Cap in these politically minded social message storylines the stories or Cap himself in the stories are ridiculously weak or hackneyed.

Also, GI JOE despite its moronic attempts to appease international audiences is not exactly going to end with the huge business Hasbro and Paramount were hoping for. Or at least nowhere near the business that the Transformers movies do with lots of pro-military Michael Bay footage.

[roach]

I think that argueing whether or not Cap would be for Iraqi Freedom or the War on Terror is pretty stupid. Cap is a perfect soldier and an officer and wouldnt let his politics come out. I think Cap as a soldier who has killed and been on the front lines would know that sometimes you have to do things to win wars. Cap being against atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be as insane as Cap being against a machine gun or a tank.
Also you have to look at the reason Cap was created. The world was at war but the American people didnt want to go to war having lost a lot of americans in WW1. Roosevelt was re elected on a platform that we wouldnt go to war. Yearly a Neutrality act was signed. It was in this setting that Cap was created. One whole year before Pearl Harbor Captain America goes on sale with a cover depicting Cap slugging Hitler. The writer and artist recieved death threats over the comic. It would be the equivalent of someone creating a comic know that had a superhero punching Bin Laden or Saddam before Iraqi Freedom.

[LastSunrise1981]

Um, didn't GI Joe promote the idea of different nationalities within the military group to begin with?

But I honestly don't believe anyone has anything to worry about with Marvel taking care of Cap.

[Wally West]

The thing is, generally when you put Cap in these politically minded social message storylines the stories or Cap himself in the stories are ridiculously weak or hackneyed.

Also, GI JOE despite its moronic attempts to appease international audiences is not exactly going to end with the huge business Hasbro and Paramount were hoping for. Or at least nowhere near the business that the Transformers movies do with lots of pro-military Michael Bay footage.

It's hard to compare G.I.Joe and Transformers. Many of the people who ultimately didn't like ROTF were really looking forward to it before it came out. It was always on track to be one of the biggest films of the summer. G.I.Joe was never a sure thing, and had in fact been getting all kinds of negative word of mouth months before it was even released - and rightfully so from what I understand.

[sdn]

Cap would be a Libertarian, like Ron Paul.

[Triad]

Cap would be a Libertarian, like Ron Paul.
AMEN TO THAT! Uphold the Constitution & The Bill of Rights! 'Nuff said!
(Although, technically Paul is a Republican with Libertarian views.)

[bunk]

He probably wouldn't share that many views with Libertarians. Some, of course. But most Americans do share at least some of them. I'm not sure if propaganda soldier and the idea nonintervention really go hand in hand. He would be more about equality and individual freedom than he would be states' rights. Not to mention the whole 'separation of church and state' thing.

[CaptainCanada]

Cap would be a Libertarian, like Ron Paul.
On what issues? The guy's always been portrayed as a Roosevelt Democrat; very pro-New Deal, which is like the anti-Ron Paul.

I think it's a stretch to portray the GI Joe film as wanting to have the Americans as villains; Baroness is a different nationality, but so is Destro. Certainly they added some non-Americans to the hero team, but all the leads are American.

As to the movie, one imagines they'll take a fairly idealistic approach, since that's how World War II America is generally portrayed ("the last good war"). The absolute worst thing to do would be to portray him as a rabid jingoist, though (given that would just confirm what people who don't read his stories already think of him).

[TheVileOne]

I think the thing about Captain America is that it's good if liberals can see him as being down the middle but maybe leaning slightly toward the left, and conservatives can see him as being down the middle but maybe leaning slightly toward the right. Obviously they should avoid Cap reacting to controversial issues like abortion, or gay marriage like the plague because if he takes a side it's a turn off to roughly half the American audience. Cap has to be someone who can be respected by both Democrats and Republicans.
Has everyone forgotten how Superman turned off middle America?

Truth justice and all that stuff

Superman having a bastard son.

Superman leaving earth and abandoning his son and his son's mother.

[The Guard]

I'm iffy on how GI JOE suggests that all Americans are villains.

If the words "Captain America" are in this film's title, anywhere, then there will be patriotism.

It's pretty much inherent.

This movie will only reach it's potential however, if it can explore both sides of the issue. Both the flag waving rah rah stuff and the realization that no country or government, let alone our own, is perfect. That, and the nature of being a soldier needs to be actually explored.

[TheVileOne]

I'm iffy on how GI JOE suggests that all Americans are villains.

If the words "Captain America" are in this film's title, anywhere, then there will be patriotism.

It's pretty much inherent.

This movie will only reach it's potential however, if it can explore both sides of the issue. Both the flag waving rah rah stuff and the realization that no country or government, let alone our own, is perfect. That, and the nature of being a soldier needs to be actually explored.
1. GI JOE can't be American military anymore.

2. GI JOE is now multinational.

3. They made villains like Baroness American.

4. The pit is no longer in the US.

5. Heavy Duty couldn't be American.

6. Breaker couldn't be American.

[TheVileOne]

edit, dp.

[The Guard]

I'm iffy on how that suggests that all Americans are villains.

[roach]

1. GI JOE can't be American military anymore.


I dont know about this one. General Hawk was running it and he was answering to the President...seems to suggest that America was running it.

[CaptainCanada]

3. They made villains like Baroness American.
They also completely changed her backstory and made her a good guy.

5. Heavy Duty couldn't be American.

6. Breaker couldn't be American.They cast some non-American actors; again, so? They wanted to add international appeal, that isn't some grand statement on the US, particularly since, like SHIELD most of the time, the result is basically an American agency with some foreign trappings (it's run by an American, most of its personnel are American, it answers to the president, etc.).

[Katsuro]

1. GI JOE can't be American military anymore.

2. GI JOE is now multinational.

3. They made villains like Baroness American.

4. The pit is no longer in the US.

5. Heavy Duty couldn't be American.

6. Breaker couldn't be American.

Yeah man, how dare they portray non-Americans as heroes, or suggest that anyone from the U.S. could be a bad guy! Stupid multi-culturalism...

[TheVileOne]

Pretty much. Its GI JOE not Action Man.

[Cosmic]

TheVileOne, I wouldn't be too worried about this. The main difference is that Captain America is in the care of people who actually respect the source material. Based on what I've heard so far, they're not going for anything even remotely similar to G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra. Consider the fact that this movie needs to mesh with the other Avengers franchise/character movies. It's safe to say that Cap is not going to stray far away from the tone and feel of these other movies. I think, based on what we've seen of these movies so far, and what is known of the director, that Cap will be handled with the same level of respect.

[KatarHol]

Has everyone forgotten how Superman turned off middle America?

Truth justice and all that stuff

Superman having a bastard son.

Superman leaving earth and abandoning his son and his son's mother.
Man,you are desperate. I bet you have a fit when people tell you Happy Holidays instead of saying Happy Jesus's birthday!
Superman Returns failed because it was boring and not for any of the reasons you listed above,(plus,he didn't know he had a son when he left,go watch the movie). Superman 2 was quite successful,and in that movie,Supes trades his powers and any future potential for any Earth saving so he can get a piece of ass,Then.....................he seemingly murders General Zod and co at the end. I'd say he was more faithful to the comics Supes in the newer movie. Middle america has nothing to do with anything,Cap is from NY so who cares anyway. All middle america has done for Cap is killing Johnny Walker's parents.
For someone so hung up on values and middle america,why do you have a psychopath murderer as your avatar? Shouldn't you have Archie or Howdy Doody?

[sdn]

On what issues? The guy's always been portrayed as a Roosevelt Democrat; very pro-New Deal, which is like the anti-Ron Paul.


Interesting - I didn't know that Cap was viewed as pro-New Deal. It would make sense to use him as a marketing tool at the time, since that was America's plan.

I was going more by the principles and values that I think Cap's personality displays. Those would be personal freedom and liberty, which I think he displayed in his stance in the Civil War series. Also, I imagine him to have a strict interpretation of the documents of the founding fathers. That's where I'm getting the "Libertarian" from.

[TheVileOne]

Man,you are desperate. I bet you have a fit when people tell you Happy Holidays instead of saying Happy Jesus's birthday!
Superman Returns failed because it was boring and not for any of the reasons you listed above,(plus,he didn't know he had a son when he left,go watch the movie). Superman 2 was quite successful,and in that movie,Supes trades his powers and any future potential for any Earth saving so he can get a piece of ass,Then.....................he seemingly murders General Zod and co at the end. I'd say he was more faithful to the comics Supes in the newer movie. Middle america has nothing to do with anything,Cap is from NY so who cares anyway. All middle america has done for Cap is killing Johnny Walker's parents.
For someone so hung up on values and middle america,why do you have a psychopath murderer as your avatar? Shouldn't you have Archie or Howdy Doody?
You are delusional if you don't believe some of those elements didn't turn off fans, suburbanites, and middle America, an audience Hollywood often turns their nose at.

[CaptainCanada]

Interesting - I didn't know that Cap was viewed as pro-New Deal. It would make sense to use him as a marketing tool at the time, since that was America's plan.
Not in his public guise (writers have pretty consistently had the character avoid involving himself in political stuff), in his private life. Pre-Cap Steve Rogers worshipped FDR, in a lot of continuities had a job under the Work Progress Administration; generally, he grew up poor in the 1930s. He'd have no illusions about how awesome things were when big business got to do whatever it wanted.

As to his actions in things like Civil War, that would certainly make him a civil libertarian, though that's hardly unique to Libertarianism (liberalism, in most cases, for example).

[TheVileOne]

FDR's actions didn't end the depression :p .

[CaptainCanada]

FDR's actions didn't end the depression :p .
They didn't end the Depression because he tried to balance the budget too quickly, and didn't spend enough, ironically (in great part because the huge expenditures by the feds were partly just plugging holes caused by state budget cuts). However, he stopped the freefall (saving the banks, for example), made lives for millions much better, and established the foundations for future prosperity, all while making everybody feel much better about themselves (Reagan only managed the last of those, and he still gets held up as a god).

But that's neither here nor there, really. One expects film-Cap will be a big FDR fan, to the extent that they get into that sort of thing (movies almost never depict characters as supporting the loser; half of America voted for Nixon in 1960, 99% of fictional characters voted for Kennedy).

[KatarHol]

You are delusional if you don't believe some of those elements didn't turn off fans, suburbanites, and middle America, an audience Hollywood often turns their nose at.
What? Trading his powers for a date night with Lois? Yeah,Superman 2 turned off some fans.......oh you mean the snorefest Superman Returns. I'd say being a dull movie turned off the fans and just plain bored middle,east,west,northeast,southwest America........

[Timstuff]

And guess what movie did very well in middle America this summer? I'll give you a hint: it's in this thread's title. :hehe:

[TheVileOne]

And guess what movie did very well in middle America this summer? I'll give you a hint: it's in this thread's title. :hehe:
Yeah not really. Basically this year's Van Helsing. Compared to Bayformers which doesn't **** on the US and American military.

[KatarHol]

Yeah not really. Basically this year's Van Helsing. Compared to Bayformers which doesn't **** on the US and American military.
God good man,now GIJoe has **** on the US and the military?:yay: Oh i see.........:hehe::hehe::hehe: ack,i can't believe that i've been arguing with a 10 year old this whole time! Why didn't i realize it earlier?

[Triad]

I think that Cap should be the anti-G.I. Joe at least in the sense that it shouldn't be a feature-length toy commercial or a brainless, weak storied popcorn flick with un-realistic CGI effects -AND- that Chandler Tatum should be NOWHERE near it!
'Nuff said!

[TheVileOne]

GI JOE was renamed GLOBAL INTEGRATED JOINT OPERATING ENTITY for the stupid, new movie. ********.

[Webhead2006]

What was gi joe's original name stand for?

[Timstuff]

They never used the word "Globally Intgrated Joint Operations Entity" in the movie. They only said that General Hawk was the founder of GI Joe and that other allied nations joined later. For all the *****ing some people make about GI Joe being "internationalized," really there's not a lot to it other than the Pit being in Egypt and two b-list characters having non-American accents (Heavy Duty and Breaker).

[roach]

What was gi joe's original name stand for?

Government Issued

and TF2 did not @#$@! on america or US Military

[Timstuff]

They actually made a joke about it in the movie, where Ripcord claims that Duke was not born, but rather "Government Issued."

[roach]

there were a lot of little jokes...the funniest one to me was when Ripcord feels Roadblock's hair and says it feels so real...and with a kung fu grip...lol

[Timstuff]

He said "that's some lifelike hair you've got" shortly after being injected with painkillers. "Lifelike hair" was one of the selling lines for GI Joe in the 70's, like Kung Fu Grip. :D

[roach]

yup

[Infinity9999x]

And guess what movie did very well in middle America this summer? I'll give you a hint: it's in this thread's title. :hehe:

I wouldn't say very well. It's only at 132mill domestic right now, and at 256mill World Wide. It'll be lucky if it does Batman Begins numbers.

[Timstuff]

For August it had a good run.

[TheVileOne]

Damn I ****ing hate Marlon Wayans:

GI Joe looks like it is heading to a $300m worldwide final. 6 years after Hulk did $245m worldwide, you're looking at a similar financial situation. GI Joe will be trying to get out of the red ink for years to come - a couple of million DVD units will make the difference between a loss and a breakeven film - but is not an unmitigated financial disaster. Then the question of the sequel... and if you think an announcement is the same as a film getting made, you are too green to live. Marvel lost money on The Incredible Hulk, even though it did a better job of giving the core audience what it wanted. It grossed slightly more than the first Hulk film... but cost more - which says so much, given that when Universal made the first film in 2002/3, it was their priciest effort ever - and it lost money.

So do you make a GI Joe sequel? Do you try to rein in the budget? Didn't the kids come to see stuff blow up real big? It's not like they spent the budget they had on actors. I don't know. Does this studio want to be dragged through a sequel? Remember the public apologies that came out of Charlie's Angels; Full Frontal. Remember all the drama around M:I3? Could they mistake $300m from GI Joe for $700m from the first Transformers? And dare we invoke Superman Returns and its $391,081,192 worldwide gross? (No sequel for YOU, Bryan!)

Timstuff and company can twist the numbers however they want, but it did not do what they wanted it to.

[Webhead2006]

Well we know last thing joe said about the film he wants it to be more like indy and his rockteer film which is what the character should be like. So right now i am not worried that it would turn out like gi joe.

[Timstuff]

Damn I ****ing hate Marlon Wayans:



Timstuff and company can twist the numbers however they want, but it did not do what they wanted it to.

It exceeded Paramount's projections, so I guess you believe they never intended for it to be what you deem "successful." Fantastic 4 didn't do any better than GI Joe and it was in a much more lucrative release window, and it still got a sequel. It had a smaller budget, but on the other hand it did not have as big of a merchandising campaign as GI Joe so Paramount and Hasbro probably concluded that they could offset the additional expense with merchandising revenues.

[TheVileOne]

Yeah it got an unsuccessful sequel that put the franchise at a standstill and now the studio wants to start over from scratch. F4 isn't exactly a good point of comparison unless getting a ****** sequel that bombs is what you are expecting.

[Panthro]

Yeah it got an unsuccessful sequel that put the franchise at a standstill and now the studio wants to start over from scratch. F4 isn't exactly a good point of comparison unless getting a ****** sequel that bombs is what you are expecting.
It's Fox's own fault for not taking better care of the F4 franchise in the first place. Of course, Fox can't seem to do anything right lately from a storytelling quality standpoint.

[Webhead2006]

thats true they have messed up alot of comic films, and some book adaptions. Their is fox films i do like but overall they shouldnt bother with the comics films.

[TheVileOne]

It seems the main point of comparison for GI JOE is mediocre movies that did decent-good business that got sequels that did even worse. So . . . that's the template for GI JOE? OK then.

[TheVileOne]

An American president was just awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Hollywood, you can get off the everybody hates the US train now. Your messiah got a gift Nobel Peace Prize. Don't ruin Captain America.

[Thundercrack85]

Oh c'mon, relations may have been a bit strained in recent times, but even the French liked America in WWII (the ones that weren't conspiring with Germany anyway).

[R_Hythlodeus]

An American president was just awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Hollywood, you can get off the everybody hates the US train now. Your messiah got a gift Nobel Peace Prize. Don't ruin Captain America.
don't worry. MY feelings will never change...

[sdc10]

I dont see how this movie could end up like GI Joe considering this movie is gonna be a period piece.

[Webhead2006]

plus we know joe wants to do the film more aline to raiders/rockeeter feel.

[TheVileOne]

Saying what he wants and doing it are two different things.

[Webhead2006]

well we have reason to believe he wont do what he has said so far.

[roach]

what reason do we have???

[TheVileOne]

Jp3.

[Webhead2006]

sure jp3 was a crap film but that was what 2003 he has probably learned from his mistakes with that film.

[Timstuff]

At least JP3 was better than that piece of crap The Lost World. It may not have been as good as the first movie, but it was still a fun Dinosaur romp and I enjoyed it. And besides, it doesn't negate the fact that Johnston directed the freakin' Rocketeer. He knows how to deliver a Raiders of the Lost Ark style action adventure set in that period, so I have little doubt that he'll do great things with Captain America.

[Webhead2006]

Totally timstuff, he has probably learned from past mistakes. Then i am not worried to we hear/see footage that shows things how the film will be.

[Sawyer]

Captain America needs to be the ANTI-GI JOE
You had me at the title. :up:

[TheVileOne]

At least JP3 was better than that piece of crap The Lost World. It may not have been as good as the first movie, but it was still a fun Dinosaur romp and I enjoyed it. And besides, it doesn't negate the fact that Johnston directed the freakin' Rocketeer. He knows how to deliver a Raiders of the Lost Ark style action adventure set in that period, so I have little doubt that he'll do great things with Captain America.

I enjoy the Rocketeer a lot, but you know, its not Raiders of the Lost Ark. It wasn't a huge hit either. Also, Rocketeer he did almost 20 years ago. Think about that. Captain America would be coming out 20 years after the release of Rocketeer. His more recent movies like JP3 and Hidalgo I'm not so impressed with.

[Triad]

Yeah but if the trailers are any indication, his most recent flick: The Wolfman is going to be spectacular!

[TheVileOne]

I've lost count of how many great trailers I've seen but the final product is garbage or disappointing. Trailers are sometimes misleading and vice versa.

[Triad]

I guess all you are saying is don't get your hopes up...and your point isn't lost on me because I agree that you just might be right. Isn't that a bit of a pessimistic way to look at it though? Why not get excited about what looks like will be a cool flick and one that we really have high-hopes for? Sure it could turn out to be disappointing garbage, but let's wait till we see the movie first before counting it out as crapola.

[TheVileOne]

I think the Wolfman movie looks OK, I'm just not particularly excited about it nor do I have any desire to see it. Also, the release date sort of puts quite a few warning bells in my head.

[Webhead2006]

well all we can hope for is joe to pull out a good film with cap with a solid script, and a good cast it could make up for any shortcoming joe could have.

[Captain Marvel]

I loved Hidalgo, myself. Johnston did that one? Nice!

[RachelDawes]

I think the Wolfman movie looks OK, I'm just not particularly excited about it nor do I have any desire to see it. Also, the release date sort of puts quite a few warning bells in my head.

I'm hoping Wolfman will be like Valkyrie, which had reshoots and was pushed back a couple of times but turned out fine in the end.

[TheVileOne]

Maybe. But Valkyrie wasn't released in the dumping ground period. Once the buzz started turning positive after the trailers were released it was moved up from Feb. to December as I recall.

[JAK®]

Jon Favreau's filmography wasn't impressive until Iron Man, either.

[TheVileOne]

Jon Favreau's filmography wasn't impressive until Iron Man, either.

I highly disagree. The dude wrote and produced Swingers. He directed Made - very good, underrated and heavy movie. He also did Elf which was a huge hit. And he did Zathura which wasn't very successful, but it was a decent well made movie.

[NotFadeAway]

I would just like to say that I fully agree with the creator of this thread. This is the one comic book films thats needs to give shove Americana down the throats of the audience. If I even detect the slightest bit of political correctness that takes away from the film being patriotic, I'll walk out of the theater. This is OUR superhero as a country, this movie should be for the United States and the United States alone.

Thats the difference between Captain America and Superman. At the end of the day, Superman should be a worldly hero, but Cap should bleed red, white, and blue rather proudly. Thats why I want two solo Cap films. A WW2 period piece to kick it off, and then a modern day film about Cap in the 21st century United States, can you imagine how ****** Cap is going to feel when he see's how the United States has become a shell of the nation that he once fought and stood for?

[MilkmanDan]

I would just like to say that I fully agree with the creator of this thread. This is the one comic book films thats needs to give shove Americana down the throats of the audience. If I even detect the slightest bit of political correctness that takes away from the film being patriotic, I'll walk out of the theater. This is OUR superhero as a country, this movie should be for the United States and the United States alone. Making a blockbuster solely with the American market in mind probably wouldn't make much financial sense. Doesn't foreign box office usually make up about 3/4 of a film's profits? Still, I can't seriously share the concern that Captain America movie might not be patriotic. It's Captain America. Fighting Nazis. Nuff said.

Thats why I want two solo Cap films. A WW2 period piece to kick it off, and then a modern day film about Cap in the 21st century United States, I'd imagine that WWII film and a modern day sequel is exactly what will happen. Of course, there's a chance we'll see the beginning of Cap's adjustment to modern world in "Avengers".

can you imagine how ****** Cap is going to feel when he see's how the United States has become a shell of the nation that he once fought and stood for? I don't know. Didn't Cap miss the supposed high point of American glory days by sleeping through 50's and early 60's? He went from NYC during the great depression to the Second World War. So, it's not like he's lifted straigh from a happy, perfect "Leave It to Beaver" idyll and placed into some horrible post-apocalyptic dystopia. A lot of everyday things are different. Some problems, like drug use, are worse. But he's not going to be staring at the remains of The Statue of Liberty shouting: "You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell! "

[JAK®]

I think the crucial thing about the 'American' part of Captain America is that it should be less 'GOD BLESS AMERICA' and more 'FOR FREEDOM AND LIBERTY'.

[MessiahDecoy123]

They should just forget all the campy and tacky elements and go for a Saving Private Ryan feel.

Take the material seriously the way the Dark Knight did. People will catch on if it's done properly.

[TheVileOne]

I would just like to say that I fully agree with the creator of this thread. This is the one comic book films thats needs to give shove Americana down the throats of the audience. If I even detect the slightest bit of political correctness that takes away from the film being patriotic, I'll walk out of the theater. This is OUR superhero as a country, this movie should be for the United States and the United States alone.

Thats the difference between Captain America and Superman. At the end of the day, Superman should be a worldly hero, but Cap should bleed red, white, and blue rather proudly. Thats why I want two solo Cap films. A WW2 period piece to kick it off, and then a modern day film about Cap in the 21st century United States, can you imagine how ****** Cap is going to feel when he see's how the United States has become a shell of the nation that he once fought and stood for?
Amen brother.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Yes shove Americana down the throats of the audience...and watch it completely bomb outside of America.

You guys realize that just his name will put everyone who isn't American or a comic booker reader off straight away?

Now I agree that the film needs to maintain that All American patriotism. But you start with the whole "Hoo-Raa!!! America is the best country in the world and everyone else is inferior!" crap and the film will not please anyone who is not America or a comic book fan.

And that would be disappointing if the film makers went that route. Because Cap himself isn't about that obnoxious ********. He's clashed with the American government many, many times.

[Webhead2006]

I am sure they will probably work on the film to be that american feeling film, but still aplease international folks too.

[Stripesy Strip]

I'm not even American but I want Cap to beat the crap of Nazis, I want the American GIs in action, I want them to make Germans cries.

[TheVileOne]

Yes shove Americana down the throats of the audience...and watch it completely bomb outside of America.

Once again stop buying into Hollywood claptrap.

You guys realize that just his name will put everyone who isn't American or a comic booker reader off straight away?

Then why even make the movie at all? Make a Captain Australia movie.

Now I agree that the film needs to maintain that All American patriotism. But you start with the whole "Hoo-Raa!!! America is the best country in the world and everyone else is inferior!" crap and the film will not please anyone who is not America or a comic book fan.

And that would be disappointing if the film makers went that route. Because Cap himself isn't about that obnoxious ********. He's clashed with the American government many, many times.

Didn't hurt Transformers 2.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Buying into Hollywood claptrap? No I'm giving the opinion of someone who is English.

I love Cap, but if this film is over the top, obnoxious flag waving ********, I won't see it, and neither will anyone outside of America or who isn't a comic book fan.

For two reasons.

One, that obnoxious side of America is something I hate, and pretty much the entire planet hates.

Two, Captain America doesn't represent that side of America. The stupid "Hoo Raa! We are so vastly superior to everyone else!" side. And if the film goes that route, then it won't be accurate to the source material. As I said Cap has clashed with the American government many times.

And don't bring Transformers into it, because it isn't comparable. Transformers on the surface are about big **** off robots smashing **** up. You wouldn't realize it's obnoxious flag waving until after you have seen it.

The very title; Captain AMERICA will put A LOT of people off outside of America. Because people not in the know would assume he is a propaganda, flag waving, AMERICA RULEZ!!!111 tool. When he in fact, is not.

You're basically asking for a serious, non satirical Team America: World Police. If Captain America ends up like that, it would be a travesty.

[Drz]

Before i start writing anything else let me make one thing clear: I'm european and Captain America fan. Or well Mark Millar's Captain America fan pretty much.

Making this movie all-american stuff would be a disaster outside. The common European may find Captain America purely lame just because of his name. I've even ran into stupid arguments where the guy tried to explain me why Batman was cool but Captain America can't be cool at all... *barfs from remembering that day*

So anyhow. Yes Captain America should be a proud american, but truly World War 2 was won by teamwork and this is how it should be shown. No i'm not asking for some Indian guy acting as the tech guy. Or the black guy talking about his street stuff. No, we just need to make it.... non patriotic-god-bless-america movie where WW2 is finished with Captain America leading the soldiers to victory.

[Triad]

People had better get off the America-bashing, that's all I've got to say because I'm refraining from typing some stuff that might make me some enemies here. I'm no flag-waving patriot, but I do still love my country and am tired of it being politically correct to dump on America.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Who is dumping on America? I haven't got a problem with America.

What I do have a problem with is Americans who are like "Hey we are the best in the world at everything! You are all lesser beings!"

Or having that mentality thrown down my throat.

And if you have a problem with me feeling like that, then well, **** you.

The FACT is, if Captain America was made like that, with that obnoxious, we are better than everyone attitude, NO ONE outside of America would see. Even Captain America fans. Because the REAL Captain America is not like that.

[TheVileOne]

I find the constant stream of anti-American anti-war and anti-military movies that BOMB at the box office and fail miserably more obnoxious than what you are referring to.

[Triad]

Hey Ace,
Let me start by saying that my intention is not to try to get into an argument with you or to p*** you off...you are entitled to your opinions, but I just want you to know that people may take offense if you try to try to portray Americans as egotists. I personally disagree with the current state of politics of my country but all the anti-American sentiments that many non-Americans other than yourself have posted on these boards are all really starting to grade on my patience.
I'm not going to stoop to the depths where I'll repeat your "**** you", but I will say that your attitude offends me as much as you are offended by the Americans that throw this mentality "down your throat". It sounds like it's they that have the problem not America. Generalizing U.S. citizens as having an obnoxious superiority complex is plain offensive. ALL countries have citizens that feel that way about their respective land. I personally know plenty of non-Americans that are worse offenders in advocating their own countries then most Americans are towards the U.S.. Besides, what is wrong with thinking your country is the best country? I'm confused as to why it is OK for people to proclaim far & wide their pride in their race, religions, sexual orientations or nationalities...just as long as they aren't American (or white, but that is another subject entirely - I am not a racist.). I don't go on rants on how Great Britain or any other country is beneath us or how great America is and I haven't seen any other U.S. SHH poster either. I'm getting really tired of being considered guilty en mass of something I don't do. But I do love my country, America...warts & all.
You know what? If the filmmakers happen to make First Avenger a bit too pro-U.S.A. for your tastes...then go ahead stay home and don't see it! I'm willing to bet that they have no intention of doing this though because they do want to appeal to a worldwide audience - and I'm sure you know this also. So it just seems to me that you are just taking this opportunity to jump on a soapbox about how egotistical America is. Besides, when's the last time you DID see a movie that said "We're American and we are the best and everybody else sucks!"? As theVileOne has stated, there sure isn't a shortage of ones stating the opposite point of view!
Maybe before you start posting stereotypical insults about other SHH members' national attitudes you might want to think about if it's offensive or not first.
This is not trying to attack you personally, but I just felt that it should be said.

[Triad]

Attention Mods,
I'm starting to think this particular forum topic is a breeding ground for potential arguments. Doesn't anyone else agree?

[Katsuro]

I find the constant stream of anti-American anti-war and anti-military movies that BOMB at the box office and fail miserably more obnoxious than what you are referring to.

What could you possibly have against anti-war movies? What, do you like war or something?

[Infinity9999x]

I find the constant stream of anti-American anti-war and anti-military movies that BOMB at the box office and fail miserably more obnoxious than what you are referring to.

I certainly don't, and I am an American.

And what's wrong with Anit-war? Do you dislike Saving Private Ryan? Because that had a pretty strong anti-war message. However, it managed to have an anti-war message while also having a pro-American message.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Hey Ace,
Let me start by saying that my intention is not to try to get into an argument with you or to p*** you off...you are entitled to your opinions, but I just want you to know that people may take offense if you try to try to portray Americans as egotists. I personally disagree with the current state of politics of my country but all the anti-American sentiments that many non-Americans other than yourself have posted on these boards are all really starting to grade on my patience.
I'm not going to stoop to the depths where I'll repeat your "**** you", but I will say that your attitude offends me as much as you are offended by the Americans that throw this mentality "down your throat". It sounds like it's they that have the problem not America. Generalizing U.S. citizens as having an obnoxious superiority complex is plain offensive. ALL countries have citizens that feel that way about their respective land. I personally know plenty of non-Americans that are worse offenders in advocating their own countries then most Americans are towards the U.S.. Besides, what is wrong with thinking your country is the best country? I'm confused as to why it is OK for people to proclaim far & wide their pride in their race, religions, sexual orientations or nationalities...just as long as they aren't American (or white, but that is another subject entirely - I am not a racist.). I don't go on rants on how Great Britain or any other country is beneath us or how great America is and I haven't seen any other U.S. SHH poster either. I'm getting really tired of being considered guilty en mass of something I don't do. But I do love my country, America...warts & all.
You know what? If the filmmakers happen to make First Avenger a bit too pro-U.S.A. for your tastes...then go ahead stay home and don't see it! I'm willing to bet that they have no intention of doing this though because they do want to appeal to a worldwide audience - and I'm sure you know this also. So it just seems to me that you are just taking this opportunity to jump on a soapbox about how egotistical America is. Besides, when's the last time you DID see a movie that said "We're American and we are the best and everybody else sucks!"? As theVileOne has stated, there sure isn't a shortage of ones stating the opposite point of view!
Maybe before you start posting stereotypical insults about other SHH members' national attitudes you might want to think about if it's offensive or not first.
This is not trying to attack you personally, but I just felt that it should be said.

Look man, there is NOTHING wrong with being patriotic. NOTHING at all.

I'm not anti American, I love America, I've been there many times.

But the person who started this thread seems to want this movie to be a America propaganda tool. A vehicle for the message "America is the best so **** everyone else".

I have massive ****ing problem with this. As I would have a problem with a film that is a vehicle for the message "Britain is the best so **** everyone else".

It's a ****ing piss take. Vile seems to want Captain America to be the serious, non satirical take of Team America: World Police.

I have two problems with this, as I've already said.

1. If this film is a great big **** you to the rest of the world by America, no one outside of America will go see it. FACT. And a film about Captain America should be seen by a lot of people because he is a great character.

2. Do you guys even know the character of Captain America? Have you read 100s of Captain America comics like I have? I'm betting VileOne hasn't because he doesn't seem to have a clue about the character. Captain America is not an obnoxious flag waving arsehole. He stands for the American way of life, not the American government and certainly not egotistical American flag wavers with superiority complexes.

And I know it isn't just America who has these overzealous flag wavers. Every country has. But I'm not beating around the bush here, all over the world there is a stigma attached to America and Americans. To deny this would be ridiculous. I'm not saying it's a warranted stigma, but it is most definitely there.

Now you go and release a film called Captain AMERICA and it is gonna have a hard enough time being popular outside America as it is, just by looking at the name. Then you go make it a propaganda tool giving the rest of the world a big "**** you, you suck" and watch it bomb internationally.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is this. EVERYONE from all around the world should be able to relate and connect to Captain America. Not JUST Americans. He is the ultimate golden boy, the guy who fights for whats right no matter what. He has even clashed with America on occasions. So VileOne spouting this utter crap is TOTALLY not in line with the characterization of Captain America.

Cap represents all the good things about America. Not the bad things.

What could you possibly have against anti-war movies? What, do you like war or something?

I certainly don't, and I am an American.

And what's wrong with Anit-war? Do you dislike Saving Private Ryan? Because that had a pretty strong anti-war message. However, it managed to have an anti-war message while also having a pro-American message.

TheVileOne is right about everything. Don't argue with him, he is a pro film critic and is always right...

Oh wait!

[Triad]

Well I can't argue with your logic Ace. I'm glad that you didn't take my rant personally. After re-reading your posts I realized what you were actually saying. It's just that it caught me at the wrong time initially. Due to the stigma that you mentioned, I have recently encountered quite a few anti-American sentiments on other unrelated forums and I was getting fed up with it. I especially have a problem with people coming to this country, reaping the benefits available to them here and then proceeding to bash our people, culture & ideals while expecting that we conform to theirs. I still don't apologize for my views that I stated, but I do apologize to those directed towards you. It is a shame that the majority of the world views us as arrogant and/or ignorant. Not all of Americans fit into that mold despite our love of country.
As for TheVileOne's comments, I can neither condone nor condemn his opinions. They are his and I will respect his right to have them. I will say that I do not agree that this movie should be, as you say, a "serious, non satirical take of Team America (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=17713049#): World Police", if that is indeed his intention. I do, however feel that it is way overdue in this current rise of negativity that America once again gets a movie that highlights what is actually good about this country and what our grandfathers fought & died for. There is a reason that they were refereed to as the "Greatest Generation".
Oh, and yes I am more than just a casual fan of Captain America comics. I have been all of my life. His ideals are what TRUE patriotism represents to me: Love of country, but willing to fearlessly oppose those in power if their actions contradict what is for the overall good of all it's citizens and the country as a whole. It is afterall, supposed to be "We, the people" that run this republic, not just it's leaders. Blind patriotism is just a step away from fanaticism - which is about as dangerous as fascism! Unfortunately, true freedom also facilitates the rights of those greedy for wealth & power as much or more as for the worthy & the just. Personally, I would rather they not show Cap be discontented with this aspect in the first movie yet, but portray a more wholesome view of America. The following movies can show more of his post-thaw displeasure towards the way it has all played out here and the bastardization of our Constitution and ideology.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Glad you understand me man. As I said, I'm totally not anti-America. And you have the right to be fiercely proud of your country, as does everyone.

And I'm glad you agree with me about Cap's actual character. Because that is what I love about him. He stands for what is right, no matter what. If that brings him into conflict with his own country? So be it. He stands for all the great things about America, he stands for the things that other countries and people love about America. Not the things that make other countries and people roll their eyes about America.

[MilkmanDan]

I have no doubt that Captain America movie will have a patriotic feel to it. I guess what some of my fellow soap-fearing, wine-sipping members of Eurotrash fear is that this patriotism might be shown in a ham-fisted, tacky fashion. Cap is a man who loves his country and a representative of the heroism shown by American fighting men during WWII. And this movie should reflect that. However, it should be done tastefully. Like it was done in Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers. The reason we jaded, cynical Europians sometimes make fun of American patriotism in movies is that it's sometimes portrayed with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Captain America should simply be a better movie than those cheesy action flicks where men in uniforms walk in slow motion in front of big fighter jets/tanks/missiles and an American flag while pompous soundtrack barely hides the sound of Jerry Bruckheimer climaxing.

People around the World enjoy patriotic American shows and movies when they are done well. Marvel has done well so far with filming its properties so I'm fairly confident that this movie will manage to please most fans home and abroad.

[The Ace of Knaves]

:funny: Great post man. You summed up what I would hate better than I ever could.

But for the record, I hate wine. Give me a Stella Artois and I'm set. :up:

[marcvader]

If 616 Cap is depicted right then I would think everyone would have nothing to worry about but if its Ultimate Cap then.....

[TheVileOne]

What could you possibly have against anti-war movies? What, do you like war or something?

Captain America isn't a hippie. He's not a give peace a chance character. He's a soldier. You can't be revolting about that.

No I don't like war, but Hollywood's got to constantly shove their political anti-war viewpoints down our throats with ****** movies that no one wants to see, get bad reviews, and BOMB.

I certainly don't, and I am an American.

And what's wrong with Anit-war? Do you dislike Saving Private Ryan? Because that had a pretty strong anti-war message. However, it managed to have an anti-war message while also having a pro-American message.

No I don't dislike it. Do I dislike Rendition? Yes. Do I dislike Stop-Loss? Yes. Lambs For Lions? Yes.

[Stripesy Strip]

Before i start writing anything else let me make one thing clear: I'm european and Captain America fan. Or well Mark Millar's Captain America fan pretty much.

Making this movie all-american stuff would be a disaster outside. The common European may find Captain America purely lame just because of his name. I've even ran into stupid arguments where the guy tried to explain me why Batman was cool but Captain America can't be cool at all... *barfs from remembering that day*

So anyhow. Yes Captain America should be a proud american, but truly World War 2 was won by teamwork and this is how it should be shown. No i'm not asking for some Indian guy acting as the tech guy. Or the black guy talking about his street stuff. No, we just need to make it.... non patriotic-god-bless-america movie where WW2 is finished with Captain America leading the soldiers to victory.

Marvel shouldn't put their head in the sand in fear of what people outside think of Captain America. It's Captain America, there's nothing George W Bush/Fox News about it. It's escapism, it's adventure. We're talking about a World where it was very black & white facing the ultimate evil in Adolph Hitler and the Nazies. If people don't get that then screw them.

The guilt-ridden hero stories and what the US represent in this day and age would probably happen in Captain American 2, where the other side of the fence will be happy to see him cry "oh what has America become", etc...Sort of like what Stan Lee/Steve Englehart in the comics.

[Webhead2006]

you guys have some great posts there.

[TheVileOne]

Marvel shouldn't put their head in the sand in fear of what people outside think of Captain America. It's Captain America, there's nothing George W Bush/Fox News about it. It's escapism, it's adventure. We're talking about a World where it was very black & white facing the ultimate evil in Adolph Hitler and the Nazies. If people don't get that then screw them.

The guilt-ridden hero stories and what the US represent in this day and age would probably happen in Captain American 2, where the other side of the fence will be happy to see him cry "oh what has America become", etc...Sort of like what Stan Lee/Steve Englehart in the comics.
Thank you that's the point.

On the other hand, it could also be recognized that certain things that were bad or questionable have also improved and the American dream is still alive.

[Stripesy Strip]

Thank you that's the point.

On the other hand, it could also be recognized that certains that were bad or questionable have also improved and the American dream is still alive.

I remember in those stories from the 70s, Cap came to that conclusion also that instead of rejecting what had become of the new America(he had stopped being Cap and had chosen to work as Nomad because people had lost faith in him and he had lost faith in them given all the stuf that had happened with Watergate, etc..), he should instead evolve and become part of the discussion again so that he could present the new generation his own point of view. In a way it was a precursor to what Superman will do decades later in Kingdom Come where discouraged, he decided to quit and things went from bad to worse.

Anyway it would be interesting if the writers and filmakers could explore that in futur Captain America movies.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Marvel shouldn't put their head in the sand in fear of what people outside think of Captain America. It's Captain America, there's nothing George W Bush/Fox News about it. It's escapism, it's adventure. We're talking about a World where it was very black & white facing the ultimate evil in Adolph Hitler and the Nazies. If people don't get that then screw them.

The guilt-ridden hero stories and what the US represent in this day and age would probably happen in Captain American 2, where the other side of the fence will be happy to see him cry "oh what has America become", etc...Sort of like what Stan Lee/Steve Englehart in the comics.

There is nothing wrong with that.

But it seems some of you guys want this to be turned into a ****ing Jerry Bruckheimer movie. Which is unacceptable for a movie like this.

[Stripesy Strip]

Good Lord, No! I don't want a Michael Bay crap fest. I wish it would be like the first half of Donner's Superman as far as epic heroic fantasy, mixed with Indiana Jones and fights similar to Saving Private Ryan.

[The Ace of Knaves]

:up: Yea that would be cool.

Films like Saving Private Ryan show the heroic side to the American troops. But don't go over board and tacky with it.

[Stripesy Strip]

It's not like the GIs were chanting patriotic retorics during battles anyway. I don't want a Cap that will go "come on men, let's fight for democracy, so that we can be welcome to Lady Liberty's breast once again. The sound of her voice should give us strength to beat Fascism!".

I think Cap quite the opposite shouldn't be arrogant, in a way he's a secret weapon. He should be mysterious but then when he fights he becomes a demon. And the sight of that would inspire the troops.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Yea Cap inspires with his actions, not cheesy lines.

[Webhead2006]

i am sure joe will find a good place with cap, showing the good of ww2 us themes, and make a good action packed comic film.

[TheVileOne]

No one's expecting patriotic rhetoric. But it would be nice for Hollywood to stop the pandering ******** and stop saying, "America sucks. Everyone hates us and we agree."