Discussion: The Westboro Baptist Church

[hippie_hunter]

Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest

BALTIMORE, Maryland (AP) -- A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals in the belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Albert Snyder of York, Pennsylvania, sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.
The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned later in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.

U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted the size of the award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/iraq) and Afghanistan (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/afghanistan), carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates ****."

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries.

But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

The church and three of its leaders -- the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 -- were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.
Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that the deaths of soldiers are due to the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Their attorneys argued in closing statements Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.
The judge said the church's financial statements, sealed earlier, could be released to the plaintiffs.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse.

Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates *** enablers."

Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/31/funeral.protests.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[Addendum]

If this means they go out of business, that's a damn good thing

[Captain_BluTac]

its about damn time they get taken down a peg or two...million

[Addendum]

I don't even think those inbred idiots are thousandaires

[AhabTheArab]

aw man these guys made me laugh, but yea going to the funerals is a bit much.

this song is on their web page... id recommend checking it out... oh and any mods who have a problem with it just delete the post but the song is funny.

its called 'the bible says' and i think its moviefans ringtone.....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3MRWqlf_8M8

[Captain_BluTac]

are u kidding did you not watch the Louis Theroux documentary last year they're one of the richest families and religions in America cus there church is small but powerful

[Addendum]

I've not heard of the documentary

[psychocheeseman]

yeah man, they've got their own law firm and a bunch of houses..

BUt not for long!

[Kritish]

This has made my day. :up:

[Sandman138]

Fred Phelps can never die... seriously, look at him. The man is a zombie.

[Superhobo]

Aaahh...success.

[Sucram]

Get In!

[DareDemon]

Thank God. And thank that Judge.

This crap has been going on too long.

[bullets]

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates ****."

they need to rally these people into a slaughterhouse. 10 million is alot of money but you cant fix stupid.

[bored]

I wonder if they are confused by not getting their way through sheer smugness.

[SuperMonkey]

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates ****."

they need to rally these people into a slaughterhouse. 10 million is alot of money but you cant fix stupid.:up:

[Addendum]

10 million is alot of money but you cant fix stupid.

It should be spayed or neutered

[Damien Rage]

fred pleps should have been a bj. seriouly he is a waste of space pathetic excuse for a human being.

[chamber-music]

Now them getting sued truely is an act of GOD.

[chamber-music]

are u kidding did you not watch the Louis Theroux documentary last year they're one of the richest families and religions in America cus there church is small but powerful

I love Louis Theroux documentary's. Also I never even realised his cousin is the actor Justin Theroux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Theroux

[Damien Rage]

oooh Justin Theroux is hot

[PemLam]

The reason they're acting so smug even with the ruling is they've already said they plan to appeal and all this has done is bring more attention to their little group. Phelps even said the judgement did nothing but "make us important".

Regardless of their attitudes, I'm glad someone finally stepped in and smacked them around a little. Now if only one of the local biker gangs that attend some of these funerals for military personnel would apply a little wall to wall counseling with them.

[LexCorp]

?

So many retards to wipe of the earth so little time...

[chamber-music]

Keith Allen (Lilly Allens Dad) also made a documentary about them.
You can watch it here on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt1kN6hzabc

[LexCorp]

Keith Allen (Lilly Allens Dad) also made a documentary about them.
You can watch it here on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt1kN6hzabc

Oh for ****s sake!

[PemLam]

Keith Allen (Lilly Allens Dad) also made a documentary about them.
You can watch it here on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt1kN6hzabc

It's one thing to have people on an internet forum attack one anothers beliefs, because for all our bravado when going for the proverbial jugular, we're essentially anonymous and retaliation is at most a flaming post or being banned. But to do it in person, in public, and not have one of the victims of this a$$holery kill someone, speaks volumes about the patience level we Americans have at times.

[Mister Sinister]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWAawKFMYfs

That's the video you need to see.

[jaguarr]

Hopefully the church loses their appeal, too. I'm all for freedom of speech but these people hide behind that (and God) to harass people and hurt them when they are at a very vulnerable time in their lives. And for what? Because they're extremist homophobes? They deserve to be smacked good and hard for it.

jag

[sinewave]

man, that's great news. have any of the religious or evangelical groups condemned this church yet?

[The Lizard]

have any of the religious or evangelical groups condemned this church yet?

Looks like they have...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church#Criticism

[chamber-music]

man, that's great news. have any of the religious or evangelical groups condemned this church yet?

I see them more as a cult kind of broken of from christanity than real christians.

[Matt]

The sad part is there is no way that this will stand. Its bound to get overturned as excessive :down:

[JewishHobbit]

Me and all my Christian friends are sickened by Phelps and his church. I hope this isn't overturned. They deserve every bit of it and more in my opinion.

[sinewave]

Looks like they have...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church#Criticism

thanks. :up:

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It probably wont stick but I'm glad the judge ruled against them. Rather you like someones life style or not america is a mostly free country and he has a write to that life style. It's very disgusting and tacky for them to protest at a funeral.

[MaskedManJRK]

The Westboro Baptist Church has recently made a music video, called "God Hates the World." It's horrible and everything I hate about humanity, espicially the last thirty seconds.

http://view.break.com/278059

[hammy]

Then why torture yourself by watching? :huh:

[The Amazing Lee]

Because god hates him. :(

[Jerry!]

I wonder what the world would be like without the majority of the people living in it believing in invisible people that live in the sky. Could it be worse?

[Tempest19]

Ghost riders in the sky....

[rdh007]

The Westboro Church drops more mad beats!

[ShadowBoxing]

Oh yeah, that's one catchy tune!

[turtlefocker]

hat him back works for me and riggs

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Maybe they should examine The Bible a bit more...

---Morzan

[ShadowBoxing]

This video is awesome...stick with it to the end, it's truly awesome. Westboro gets owned.
IWAawKFMYfs

[The Evolutionist]

They don't seem to realize they they commit as many sins as anyone else. They say they know God's exact will, which is a sin. What's more, they boast and praise the deaths of so many people. They are not following Jesus's teachings any more, and in most cases less, than the people they hate.

I can't wait for the day when they're revealed to be a Jim Jones-esqe cult. They're ritualistic mass-suicide should be pretty interesting.

[terry78]

Wouldn't you hate your creations too if they turned out like us? :o

[rdh007]

Wouldn't you hate your creations too if they turned out like us? :o
Oh, I don't know...it's not all bad...
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2007/12/1203_hayden_gq.jpg

[LegendaryCaleb]

Wouldn't you hate your creations too if they turned out like us? :o
excellent point

[CaptainAmerica]

Fred Phelps can shove it.

[Arcturus]

This video is awesome...stick with it to the end, it's truly awesome. Westboro gets owned.
IWAawKFMYfs

Hah, awesome video!

Plus, it reminds me of the hype.

[bullets]

Oh, I don't know...it's not all bad...
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2007/12/1203_hayden_gq.jpg

one moment it think god hates us and then i see this . god has a love -hate relationship with the world.

[MaskedManJRK]

This video is awesome...stick with it to the end, it's truly awesome. Westboro gets owned.
IWAawKFMYfs

I didn't understand what he was saying at first, but then I lol'ed, and cried out OWNED! :woot:

[Arcturus]

Ugh, that video made me feel sick. I suppose if there's an afterlife, demons will be feasting on their souls.

[ShadowBoxing]

Yeah, you really have to stick through and pay attention to figure out what's going on.

[Mr Sparkle]

LOL, I like how they are all smiling on the photos and the video.
because the Irony is that God also spoke about pride.
quite forcefully too.

:woot:

[vindrow]

This video is awesome...stick with it to the end, it's truly awesome. Westboro gets owned.
IWAawKFMYfs




That was nice...they couldn't give him an answer to the question at the end..she just danced around the question.

[Abaddon]

This video is awesome...stick with it to the end, it's truly awesome. Westboro gets owned.
IWAawKFMYfs

Oh SNAP!:spidey:

[unstoppable]

gay bashing aside the kid at the end is adorable

[Mr Sparkle]

This video is awesome...stick with it to the end, it's truly awesome. Westboro gets owned.
IWAawKFMYfs

LOL, who's that dude?
he is the awesomest guy ever!

[Tempest19]

so that would explain college exam time.

[ShadowBoxing]

LOL, who's that dude?
he is the awesomest guy ever!
Don't know. I think he's been on Bill Maher before.

[SuperMonkey]

They don't seem to realize they they commit as many sins as anyone else. They say they know God's exact will, which is a sin. What's more, they boast and praise the deaths of so many people. They are not following Jesus's teachings any more, and in most cases less, than the people they hate.

I can't wait for the day when they're revealed to be a Jim Jones-esqe cult. They're ritualistic mass-suicide should be pretty interesting.I... feel like an ass for agreeing with this :huh: :lips:

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

"you eat your kids" lol!

Feel sorry for there kids, prob gona be social ****ups.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

They make the best characters--:joker:

---Morzan

[ShadowBoxing]

Part 1
mEqlcxW8aS
Part 2
w43tiOZARLw

I've studied the Westboro Baptist Church, and I watch a lot of their protests on Youtube. I have always been fond of extremist politics, and it's always hard to find good interviews with those who share such views because usually the interviewers are unable to separate their own anger or biases against the groups from the process. Thus, they tend to feed of the anger of the guests, and really only feed their ego when they become impatient with them. Tyra, though, manages to keep her cool for the most part. I think, though, Tyra does a nice job of disarming them, and uses a good bit of intuition on her part when interviewing the kids. The audience members have some interesting viewpoints, but it's worth the watch.

[terry78]

Go Tyra, with your big booty.

[JP]

I love me some Tyra. :heart:

[Knightsaber Priss]

I've always admired Tyra Banks. She always carries herself with dignity and intelligence.

[JP]

Oh my God! I just watched the videos. Those people can't be real. :dry:

[ShadowBoxing]

Go Tyra, with your big booty.
She has some nice titays too, DOG LIPS approves:lips:
I've always admired Tyra Banks. She always carries herself with dignity and intelligence.
...yeah, that too.

[ShadowBoxing]

Oh my God! I just watched the videos. Those people can't be real. :dry:
I'm really surprised that more people don't know about them, or much about them. They may not be 'real' though. Many insiders of the group have since leaked evidence and statements that indicate the group is little more than a glorified cult, and that the Church is less about affirming their God and more about simply servicing Fred Phelps every need and want. Many have indicated that Fred Phelps in seminary developed a God complex, and started believing that people ought to serve and deify him, not so much caring whether his views were scripturally supported or not.

[The Geek Vault]

I'm really surprised that more people don't know about them, or much about them. They may not be 'real' though. Many insiders of the group have since leaked evidence and statements that indicate the group is little more than a glorified cult, and that the Church is less about affirming their God and more about simply servicing Fred Phelps every need and want. Many have indicated that Fred Phelps in seminary developed a God complex, and started believing that people ought to serve and deify him, not so much caring whether his views were scripturally supported or not.
That wouldn't suprise me at all

[Manic]

I love that Tyra is a hot model who actually has class. More class than many journalists, it appears.

[ShadowBoxing]

That wouldn't suprise me at all
It seems correct, at least considering Fred Phelps history. I first found out about him from my studies of Civil Rights legislation; I came across his name as one of the foremost and most prominent lawyers pushing Civil Rights in Kansas. He, by his own words and deeds "systematically took down Jim Crow [in Kansas]", then he got disbarred for cross examining a woman just for the sake of humiliating her in front of a public audience, and then lying under oath. After his falling out he started actively pursuing his the lifestyle he is known for now. I just find it odd a man whose views are so extreme really has no stake in those views during a large time of his life. His position of power and opinions seems more convenience than anything else.

[the_ultimate_evil]

if your interested in a good documentary on these moronic sickos you should look up the one Keith Allen did

it actually manages to shut them up with finding out some pretty big secrets about the group

[ShadowBoxing]

Edit: Nevermind, I've seen it.

[the_ultimate_evil]

and what was your views on it

[JP]

I'll be sure to check that out.

[The Lizard]

To tell the truth, I've always pretty much considered Tyra a self-promoting attention whore who prefers everything to be about her instead of about the people she interviews (kind of like how she was on America's Next Top Model).
However, if her interviewing technique has really improved all that much, then maybe all the mockery that Joel McHale over at The Soup has heaped upon her has finally done some good.

EDIT: Actually, after watching the interview, it still seems to me that Tyra's just setting herself up as an advocate against the Phelps family's philosophy, but duh - who isn't against them? It was just Tyra shooting some crazy, ignorant fish in a barrel to make herself look good. Meh - I'm still not impressed with her.

[JP]

If she paid attention to anything on The Soup then I'd loose respect for her.

[The Lizard]

Ha. Joel McHale >>>>>>> Tyra Banks. :cwink:

[ShadowBoxing]

and what was your views on it
He's good, but I liked Louis' BBC interview better. Keith just was to 'evangelical' (self-description) to be really effective. I think the most notable section of the documentary was when he revealed that she had an illegitimate son, but most of his points were drowned out in yelling, bickering and confrontation. Also Keith didn't seem to know a whole hell of a lot about the Bible. I think my favorite all time WBC moment was when Louis asked Fred Phelps "you seem to focus mostly on old testament readings (Sodom and Gomora, Noah's Arc), does this mean you believe we are still living in a time of Biblical prophecy" to which Fred Phelps call him ignorant and refuses to address the question, despite the fact that it was very insightful and showed the interviewer as having a better grasp on things than Phelps.

[The Lizard]

. I think my favorite all time WBC moment was when Louis asked Fred Phelps "you seem to focus mostly on old testament readings (Sodom and Gomora, Noah's Arc), does this mean you believe we are still living in a time of Biblical prophecy" to which Fred Phelps call him ignorant and refuses to address the question, despite the fact that it was very insightful and showed the interviewer as having a better grasp on things than Phelps.

Good point. That was a very interesting interview. The way Fred Phelps communicates with people shows his sociopathic anger and that he actually has a deep-seated need to be hated by the rest of the world. He feels that being hated makes him superior and "blessed", and he's passed this psychosis on to his family members.

Ultimately however, this only underscores the fact that ignoring the Phelps family completely is really the only way to "hurt" them.

(BTW, you mean "Noah's ark" --- Noah's Arc is a TV show about gay black men on the Logo channel ;))

[C.F. Kane]

And by disliking the Westboro Baptist Church, Tyra Banks has proved herself to be a mildly sane human being.

[ShadowBoxing]

(BTW, you mean "Noah's ark" --- Noah's Arc is a TV show about gay black men on the Logo channel ;))
I'm not going to act like that wasn't a typo, but it was a damn awesome and ironic typo.

[MattBearPig]

And by disliking the Westboro Baptist Church, Tyra Banks has proved herself to be a mildly sane human being.

LOL. Pretty much.

[bored]

The last thing we need is for them to have more national exposure. Nobody is ever going to convince them that they are wrong. I'm trying to wait patiently until Fred has died off, Shirley does something that goes too far, and Child Services takes the kids away. Mark my words. It's gonna happen.

Either that, or the next time somebody tries to set their garage on fire (like they did the other week), it'll be succesful.

[The Lizard]

Either that, or the next time somebody tries to set their garage on fire (like they did the other week), it'll be succesful.

It's unfortunate that people are vandalizing the Phelps' property, as it only makes the Phelps family more sure that they're righteous and everyone else is evil.

But what I DO find funny is the fact that the Phelpses talk about how any natural disaster or soldier's death is righteous punishment from God, yet they consider anything bad that happens to them or their church to be the work of the Devil or sinners.

[ShadowBoxing]

I think if Fred Phelps got AIDs, that would be funny. Someone should go put AIDs into his water.

[04nbod]

I've always admired Tyra Banks. She always carries herself with dignity and intelligence.

really?
53sOpQQWOOA

[ShadowBoxing]

Rewatched the Keith Allen documentary, and really, he brings to many of his prejudices with him on the trip. If you're an atheist, or you hate Christians, or you hate the Bible, and you cannot divorce yourself from these views, you're probably better off not engaging these people. All they did, the whole time, was feed off him until he became as spiteful, if not moreso, in his interview than they were. Attacking the "redneck brother" was an especially low moment in the documentary. I saw at least two or three moments, specifically the prophecy, where he could have nailed him to the wall using a series of logical questions. The trick, with people like them, is to keep your cool and not let their anger influence your feelings. But he did, and he ended up bickering with them more than he should have.

[ShadowBoxing]

This kinda supports the argument that maybe this is all an act (the first few minutes)
4lD7i_PVvoE

[Super Kal]

This kinda supports the argument that maybe this is all an act (the first few minutes)
4lD7i_PVvoE
the man from 1:53-2:00 said it perfectly... these people show nothing but hate. I've seen an Anabaptist have more love in his heart for these people than these so called "baptists".

Westboro Baptist Church either forgot or blatantly ignores the message of love that Christ taught

[AndThePickles]

Poor Tyra, she really displayed SO much patience during that interview. Those daughters are so brainwashed...pretty damn scary.

[AndThePickles]

really?
53sOpQQWOOA

I think she had good reason to get so upset during that episode.

[zahanbil]

Those daughters are so brainwashed...pretty damn scary.

I wish someone would steal them away. Even if they were separated from their family for just a few months :csad:

[Pluto]

Cool!

[mrvlknight21]

Interesting.
You know people MIGHT listen to them (or anyon for that matter) if they were speaking with compassion and hope. They obviously dont worry about that too much.

[Movies205]

To tell the truth, I've always pretty much considered Tyra a self-promoting attention whore who prefers everything to be about her instead of about the people she interviews (kind of like how she was on America's Next Top Model).
However, if her interviewing technique has really improved all that much, then maybe all the mockery that Joel McHale over at The Soup has heaped upon her has finally done some good.

EDIT: Actually, after watching the interview, it still seems to me that Tyra's just setting herself up as an advocate against the Phelps family's philosophy, but duh - who isn't against them? It was just Tyra shooting some crazy, ignorant fish in a barrel to make herself look good. Meh - I'm still not impressed with her.

I have to agree with you Lizard and it got to the point where I felt bad for the family on the show since the whole patience thing by Tyra's part seeped with such condescension. Don't get me wrong what the family preaching is completely ****ed up but Tyra's goal on there was simply to preach her self-righteous mantra. Though this was better than a couple of the other interviews I've seen with Tyra.

[AndThePickles]

Interesting.
You know people MIGHT listen to them (or anyon for that matter) if they were speaking with compassion and hope. They obviously dont worry about that too much.

It didn't seem to mean much to them that everyone was going to hell. :wow:

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I wish someone would steal them away. Even if they were separated from their family for just a few months :csad:HAHaha...imagine if a Christian said that about an atheist's kids.

[Lunar_Wolf]

Jt1kN6hzabc
You can find the rest here http://ie.youtube.com/user/natr75

Very interesting to see when people take things too far.

[zahanbil]

Thank you, Lunar! I had never seen this before, glad you found it.

Also, from yours I found the full documentary here if it helps, since parts are missing:

http://tvshack.net/documentaries/Keith_Allen_Will_Burn_In_Hell/

[kainedamo]

Anyone see when the BBC guy Louis... Farrow (Farou?) can't pronounce his name... but he went and stayed with these people for a while and had some interesting interviews with different family members.

This one woman, you could tell she had had severe doubts about the church but she wouldn't actually say so.

Looking at the psychology of what drives Phelps and his family is interesting. He has some crazy psychological issues, and he's past it onto his family. They feed off of people hating them. When people hate them, it makes them feel like they're right.

[vindrow]

Aren't these the same nutbags that protest at soilders funerals?

Saying things like...God hates soliders and that teh soilders got what they deserved.

[zahanbil]

Aren't these the same nutbags that protest at soilders funerals?

Saying things like...God hates soliders and that teh soilders got what they deserved.

That's them. Lovely-ass people.

[bored]

This kinda supports the argument that maybe this is all an act (the first few minutes)
4lD7i_PVvoE


I can tell you for sure that it isn't an act. They've been doing this for way too long (since the early '90s), have endangered themselves too much, and have indoctrinated their children too deeply for it to be fake.

[CashforStash]

Tyra=thumbs up

[Spider-Who?]

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/WBC/default.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=3&item=WBC

I've never heard of these guys until someone posted a video about them on facebook. I was never ignorant to the fact that there are similiar groups like this out there, but man, these people know no boundaries...

Some excerpts from the link:


The Topeka, Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is a small virulently homophobic, anti-Semitic hate group that regularly stages protests around the country.

WBC targets include...funerals for people murdered or killed in accidents like plane crashes and for American soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The group made it to Canada in August 2008, where they picketed the funeral of a young man who was the victim of a brutal murder on a Greyhound bus, which was national news in that country. Authorities there reportedly tried to prevent the group from entering their country, but the WBC claims it was able to evade Canadian border patrol agents to stage the protest.


I'd post some of their direct quotes, which can be found through various links on the page above, but beware: hate words are abundant. Their hate is not directed at any one race or religion, but everyone one that is not a part of their small, yet loud group: Americans, jews, blacks, whites, asians, other christians...Its completely astonishing in a sad and disgusting way. Who sneaks into another country just so they can picket a total stranger's funeral whose name they know only because they were killed in a random and gruesome way?

:cmad::csad::cmad:

[Backdrifter]

Yeah, these guys are pretty well known. Old news, if you ask me.

[Bruce Banner]

I learned about them in Sociology class. Watch some of the interviews online. I think the daughter is just crazy looking in general.

The last time I remember hearing anything about them was when they went a protested at a funeral of a soldier who past away in Iraq.

That and when they talked about George Carlin in hell. Basically sent me into Hulk out mode right then.

[Lighthouse]

Much like the KKK, they are a joke. So completely extreme in their views that rational people don't take them seriously. I'm much more afraid of some people in Washington then I am of these morons.

[the_ultimate_evil]

didn't a bunch of bat fans go ape on them and hack they're site when they went after ledger

[Spider-Who?]

Much like the KKK, they are a joke. So completely extreme in their views that rational people don't take them seriously. I'm much more afraid of some people in Washington then I am of these morons.
well of course they won't be able to do damage on a grand scale, but that doesn't negate the damage and pain they can cause on an individual level.

[Spider-Who?]

Much like the KKK, they are a joke. So completely extreme in their views that rational people don't take them seriously. I'm much more afraid of some people in Washington then I am of these morons.
well of course they won't be able to do damage on a grand scale, but that doesn't negate the damage and pain they can cause on an individual level.

[Speedball]

Wait... what are they protesting at the funerals? Death? I don't understand why they're protesting AGAINST someone murdered they've never met.

[Immortalfire]

They're lunatics. Even as a Christian, I say they're lunatics. They are all about hate

:facepalm:

[DarkReflections]

They also tried to picket Heath Ledger's funeral too, just because of his role in Brokeback Mountain. I can stand these hateful ignorant pricks.

[Speedball]

They apparently showed up at the National Equality March, but I think all the gayness scared them all, and the fact that 90% are probably homosexuals in denial didn't help either.

[Spider-Who?]

Wait... what are they protesting at the funerals? Death? I don't understand why they're protesting AGAINST someone murdered they've never met.
For what ever reason they can think of. They pretty much think every person that is not a part of their group is an "evil, satan loving sodomite".

[bgates87]

I live in Kansas and go to church so I always have to deal with being compared to these people. They are to Chrsitianity what suicide bombers are to Islam. Most Christians will tell you they're ashamed to even be associated with this group.

[DarkReflections]

didn't a bunch of bat fans go ape on them and hack they're site when they went after ledger

I was one of those people. In fact that was during the time when i was still posting over at the IMDB TDK forum, where the users there too, were in flip out mode.

[Immortalfire]

I live in Kansas and go to church so I always have to deal with being compared to these people. They are to Chrsitianity what suicide bombers are to Islam. Most Christians will tell you they're ashamed to even be associated with this group.

For real. They are all about hate, and for that I have no use for 'em.

[B]

They are old news & they are the most hateful pieces of **** to ever walk the face of the earth, bar none..

Utter, utter morons the lot of them... thank goodness the British Government had the sense to tell them to politely, yet firmly to go f**k themselves when they wanted to come & picket a funeral or something over here.

[amazingfantasy15]

Wait... what are they protesting at the funerals? Death? I don't understand why they're protesting AGAINST someone murdered they've never met.

They protest homosexuality at funerals, saying that person deserved to die because there are homosexuals living in America.

[JustABill]

When Fred Phelps kicks the bucket, I want his funeral picketed by millions of people. Not just gays, but the mothers and fathers of sons and daughters who died protecting this country his church picketed at. I don't even want him to be able to have a peaceful funeral because he doesn't deserve one.

[Sarge 2.0]

You're just finding out about the Westboro Baptist Church? :huh:

[Spider-Who?]

You're just finding out about the Westboro Baptist Church? :huh:

eh, i know i've heard of them before, but this is the first time that I've investigated them.

[amazingfantasy15]

It's funny that they protest funerals for soliders, yet being openly gay in the military isn't really allowed.

[JustABill]

They do it because they believe god smote them down because they were protecting a country that says it's okay to be gay.

It's just a load of crock to get more attention. They are a vile cult and I wish they'd just go ahead and finish with their mass suicide already. We'd be cutting down on population in a good way.

[Majic Walrus]

Did we already agree that these guys are bat**** ****ing looney toons?

[bgates87]

It's funny that they protest funerals for soliders, yet being openly gay in the military isn't really allowed.
They believe that God is punishing America for pursuing equal rights for homosexuals. Following that insane "logic" they can interpret anything bad that happens to anyone who is an American as being a punishment from God. Dead soldiers, the September 11 attacks, Hurricane Katrina, etc. They were even planning a protest of Heath Ledger's funeral simply because he portrayed a gay person in Brokeback Mountain.

[JustABill]

I'm wondering as I watch the BBC thing posted earlier. How the **** a mass raid of the church and taking away their children hasn't happened yet. It needs to happen. They are brainwashing little kids into a life that is wrong. How has this not happened yet?

[amazingfantasy15]

They believe that God is punishing America for pursuing equal rights for homosexuals. Following that insane "logic" they can interpret anything bad that happens to anyone who is an American as being a punishment from God. Dead soldiers, the September 11 attacks, Hurricane Katrina, etc. They were even planning a protest of Heath Ledger's funeral simply because he portrayed a gay person in Brokeback Mountain.

Well, yeah, I guess I understand how they come to their conclusions, it's insane, of course, but I'm sure it makes sense to them. It's just funny that they hate an organization that is against what they're against as well.

Also funny watching some of the videoes in the YouTube link (that was apparently deleted) that all the women in the church don't want to participate in the sacrament of marriage. I was always taught marriage was one of the 7 religious ceremonies you had to participate in to get into heaven, so they're going to hell as well. Heaven must be pretty lonely, it seems like very few people are able to make it there.

[Majic Walrus]

I'm wondering as I watch the BBC thing posted earlier. How the **** a mass raid of the church and taking away their children hasn't happened yet. It needs to happen. They are brainwashing little kids into a life that is wrong. How has this not happened yet?


It isn't really your place or the government's palce to determine if the life that they lead is "wrong", is it? I believe that all religious people are wrong and I'm sure a great many of them believe I am wrong but that doesn't mean that I can't raise my kid to be that way if I see fit.

[Aesop Rocks]

When I saw "Westboro Baptist Church"

This went into my mind:

http://i37.tinypic.com/qsjhbn.jpg

[katie_girl09]

I'm wondering as I watch the BBC thing posted earlier. How the **** a mass raid of the church and taking away their children hasn't happened yet. It needs to happen. They are brainwashing little kids into a life that is wrong. How has this not happened yet?
And where do you draw the line with that? You can't take someone's kids away just because their beliefs are not shared with the majority.

How would you feel if someone said that gays and lesbians should not be allowed to have or adopt children so that they won't "brainwash" them to be homosexual (and it has been said before)? It's pretty much the same logic.

[JustABill]

And where do you draw the line with that? You can't take someone's kids away just because their beliefs are not shared with the majority.

How would you feel if someone said that gays and lesbians should not be allowed to have or adopt children so that they won't "brainwash" them to be homosexual (and it has been said before)? It's pretty much the same logic.
Well, true, and I'd be upset if I heard that, but these guys are a cult. They are teaching hate of not only gays, but anyone who pretty much isn't them. They also wouldn't mind if their children got mauled over by a bus. They are terrible parents.

[Lunar_Wolf]

Watch Michael Moore vs Westboro Baptist Church, it's quite funny.

[Marx]

The Westboro Baptist Church makes me sick. :down

[bored]

I'm wondering as I watch the BBC thing posted earlier. How the **** a mass raid of the church and taking away their children hasn't happened yet. It needs to happen. They are brainwashing little kids into a life that is wrong. How has this not happened yet?


Most of the adults in the Phelps family (the extended family makes up almost all of the church) are lawyers. They run a firm in downtown Topeka, and know every legal loophole, at least in Kansas, for everything they do.

Just an fyi, people have tried to burn their compound (I have driven past it many times, and it really is a small compound) on several occasions.

[bored]

To add to how they treat their children, they not only indocrinate them into a hateful worldview, but generally to the point of aggression. If you watch the documentary "Fall From Grace", the filmmaker actually is allowed into their home (they love attention), and at one point interviews a small child, who expresses that he'd like to kill not only "****", but the people who criticize the WBC.

Also, while I did not attend the same school as their children, I do know people from my synagogue who did. From what I have been told, the Phelps children are incredibly anti-social, and generally refuse to associate with their classmates beyond just having to be in the same rooms as one.

When the family protests, they take small children with them at all times to both hold their signs reading things like "**** Burn in Hell", "God Hates America", and various racist/anti-Semitic phrases, and to trample American flags at their feet. They not only subject their children to the ridicule they receive for their actions, but they also risk putting them in danger of physical harm every time they picket a funeral/service/concert/video store opening (this seriously happened).

The Phelps family/ WBC (they are one in the same, for those unfamiliar with them) are a fringe group, and they don't exactly persuade people to their philosophy, but what they do is annoying to people who live in Topeka (I grew up there), and hurtful to those who only see them once in their life.

[Majic Walrus]

Most of the adults in the Phelps family (the extended family makes up almost all of the church) are lawyers. They run a firm in downtown Topeka, and know every legal loophole, at least in Kansas, for everything they do.

Just an fyi, people have tried to burn their compound (I have driven past it many times, and it really is a small compound) on several occasions.

Legal loopholes? Being a racist, ignorant, hateful ******* isn't illegal.

[Schlosser85]

^ No, but some of what they do crosses the line into threats and harassment.

[Spider-Vader]

didn't a bunch of bat fans go ape on them and hack they're site when they went after ledger
The Batfans did something right! :up:

These guys are douches & I can't wait until they go to hell.

[Majic Walrus]

^ No, but some of what they do crosses the line into threats and harassment.

They don't seem to be any more threatening and harassing than the local chapter of the KKK. While I despise their beliefs, I certainly do not give their statements more weight than they actually have.

[bored]

They can run into trouble for things such as disturbing the peace, trespassing, and harassment.

[The Guard]

Yeah, all the time I spent in this thread was time I could have spent not thinking about the Westboro Baptist Church.

[Dr Lee]

one day this sack of **** rabble will get their come-uppance....

Karma/Reap what you sow/ETC..... their actions will return to haunt them one day....

Or they'll just do what a number of these cults have done... and just kill hemselves.

[Ace of Knaves]

I say take off, nuke the site from orbit, only way to be sure.

[Lunar_Wolf]

How these people have no be arrested for disturbing funerals is beyond me.

[Ace of Knaves]

I remember the Louis Theroux documentary a few years ago where he spent some time with them. The amount of contradictions he uncovered was astounding. He also pressed a couple of the teenage girls asking whether they truly believed in what was going on. They CLEARLY didn't.

And they were at a picket against some soldiers funeral, bringing the young kids along. A driver drove past them and threw some milkshakes or drinks at them, hitting one of the young kids.

They're putting these young children into the firing line of backlash attacks. Surely they should be taken away and put into care?

It's not just about beliefs, they are putting these kids into dangerous situations. You wanna go picket at a soldiers funeral? Fine. But don't bring your young children along with you and force them to hold signs saying "Soldiers are ******s" and **** like that.

[Parker Wayne]

When I was a High School Freshman my guidance counselor told my class about them in Guidance class.

Honestly, these guys possibly are the dumbest and most ignorant f**kers that ever lived.

They hate everything and everyone. For God sakes, I saw video of some of them holding up signs saying "God Hates PS3" and "F*gs play PS3". WTF that does that have to do with anything?

[bullets]

Proverbs 11.30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise


These people aren't wise at all obviously but i did send him this verse after some e-mail arguements and he is a heretic . You have to be really low as a human being
to display such acts with no empathy. These people should be arrested for harassment.

[Schlosser85]

^ They're on an official list of hate groups.

[Metamorpho1977]

Wow, these guys make Christians look bad. If I weren't a Christian and I heard these guys, I'd understand where guys like Walrus guy is coming from. I know what the Bible says, and all I can say is I pray that God will open their eyes so they can see one days.

[Whiskey Tango]

http://www.comicmix.com/news/2010/07/10/notorious-bigots-to-picket-san-diego-comic-con/

“They have turned comic book characters into idols, and worship them they do! Isaiah 2:8: Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made. Isaiah 2:9: And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.

“It is time to put away the silly vanities and turn to God like you mean it. The destruction of this nation is imminent - so start calling on Batman and Superman now, see if they can pull you from the mess that you have created with all your silly idolatry.”

[Metamorpho1977]

Idiots like that make us good Christians look bad.

[ChickenScratch]

Lol, those nuts are great. I'm an atheist so I just find them hilarious.

[LegendaryCaleb]

Idiots like that make us good Christians look bad.
yes they do :(
these crazies and the people who try to push people to christianity bug me.
thats not christian at all.

[Bill]

Idiots like that make the human race look bad.

[JewishHobbit]

I am a strong penticostal christian man who loves everyone and wishes the best on us all, christian or non-christian.

Fred Phelps needs his freakin weiner hacked off and butt raped.

[terry78]

If they're gonna do that, at least boycott the characters that don't stand for good, goddamn.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Batman and Superman are probably more likely to 'save' me than God. At least people imitating these super heroes might dress up like Batman and go crime fighting.

[MessiahDecoy123]

St. Peter: "What has thy done to deserve the Kingdom of Heaven?"

Fred Phelps: "I protested the comic con in 2010!"

St. Peter: "Dude, you were supposed to feed homeless people."

Fred Phelps: "But Batman distracts people from Jesus."

St. Peter: "Jesus saw The Dark Knight like 8 times, you fool."

Fred Phelps: "But..."

St. Peter: "Yeah, this place is for the charitable not morons who protest harmless fantasy conventions."

Fred Phelps: "But.."

St. Peter: "Yeah, Jesus said when you inspire as many dreams and happiness as Stan Lee you could get in. Good luck chump."

[Whiskey Tango]

St. Peter: "Yeah, Jesus said when you inspire as many dreams and happiness as Stan Lee you could get in. Good luck chump."

:awesome::up:

[Crook]

These guys get more ridiculous by the year. Batman w/ prep-time would whoop Jesus' ass. :doh:

[Metamorpho1977]

Superman was actually inspired by Jesus. There are a lot of similarities in their stories.
Superman son of Jor-El
El refers to the Hebrew word for God. Jesus was the son of El

There are many other bits that mention this. Siegel and Schuster mentioned it a few years ago.

[JewishHobbit]

Batman could easily take Pre-Resurection Jesus, but Post-Resurection Jesus would destroy him.

[JustABill]

Good thing there's no such thing as ''Post Resurrection Jesus" then. (Note: This is just my opinion, I do not wish to starte a debate so please do not respond wanting to start a debate. Thank you.)

These idiots really really really really give not only Christian people a bad name, but just human beings in general. They should really have their children taken away from them, they are teaching them bad values.

[E-Man]

If Duke Nukem were real....

he'd probably go after the bastards that haven't released Forever, and we'd have to hope that Chuck Norris beat up these Westboro idiots instead.

[Heretic]

Christians often say that what proves the bible to be true is the fact that they have discovered ruins of cities mentioned in the bible.

The Marvel universe frequently mentions a city called New York City...which will prove to people in a few hundred years that Spider-Man is the messiah.

[JewishHobbit]

Good thing there's no such thing as ''Post Resurrection Jesus" then. (Note: This is just my opinion, I do not wish to starte a debate so please do not respond wanting to start a debate. Thank you.)



That's okay, because Batman's not real either, so it's kinda like characters who phase. Untouchable until two get together, then it's a fight. So in a Fictional Battle (in your opinion) between Post Resurection Jesus vs Batman.... PRJ wins!

[JustABill]

I have no doubts that some of the things that happened in the bible actually happened, but some of it is clearly nothing more than a story of values to live by, not meant to be taken as a religion. I think the writers would laugh at how far their little book has gone.

[JewishHobbit]

Christians often say that what proves the bible to be true is the fact that they have discovered ruins of cities mentioned in the bible.

Heh, give or take some other things.

The Marvel universe frequently mentions a city called New York City...which will prove to people in a few hundred years that Spider-Man is the messiah.

Nah, according to the ancient texts, Spider-Man will have made deals with the devil. I'd say the Messiah would be someone more along the lines of Cable or Captain America.

[JewishHobbit]

I have no doubts that some of the things that happened in the bible actually happened, but some of it is clearly nothing more than a story of values to live by, not meant to be taken as a religion. I think the writers would laugh at how far their little book has gone.

Nah, I think it's safe to say the authors believed everything they wrote. And besides, I think a lot of people believe in their faith moreso based on experiences than what the Bible tells us. It's just a guide for lack of better words. I began to believe based on the Bible and because of my youth I think, but I continued to believe/came back to believing based on things I've seen and experienced. That cemented the truth of it for me.

[Heretic]

Heh, give or take some other things.



Nah, according to the ancient texts, Spider-Man will have made deals with the devil. I'd say the Messiah would be someone more along the lines of Cable or Captain America.

Read the book of Job...there's a deal with the devil right there.

[JewishHobbit]

Read the book of Job...there's a deal with the devil right there.

A deal that worked out well for nearly the entire history of the Earth and has built faith and encouragement to this day. I say God made out on that deal. Spider-Man, however, was just selfish and no good repercussions came of it.

Though I'll admit this... I swear that is the most boring and tedious book I've tried to read.

[JustABill]

I think the connection one feels with God is more, a feeling that your own body produces, because you believe in what you are doing and feel it's getting you to a better place both in life and the afterlife. I don't really believe it's a connection to anyone else.

But I love that it makes other people feel better irregardless.

[JewishHobbit]

I think the connection one feels with good is more, a feeling that your own body produces, because you believe in what you are doing and feel it's getting you to a better place both in life and the afterlife. I don't really believe it's a connection to anyone else.

But I love that it makes other people feel better irregardless.

I meant experiences a bit deeper and external than feeling good about what you're doing, but I can see what you mean there and I can respect the differences of opinion.

[Crook]

Superman was actually inspired by Jesus. There are a lot of similarities in their stories.
Superman son of Jor-El
El refers to the Hebrew word for God. Jesus was the son of El

There are many other bits that mention this. Siegel and Schuster mentioned it a few years ago.
Not Jesus. Moses.

[Addendum]

Batman could easily take Pre-Resurection Jesus, but Post-Resurection Jesus would destroy him.
I think Batman could handle a zombie.

[THE MR. TERRIFIC]

This is stupid! I cosplay as a hobby. It's in no way idol worship. Get a life and stop interpreting the bible as you see fit, jerk!

[DarkReflections]

Why does there always have to be a thread about these jerks every year? They have little attention as it is so lets just keep it that way.

[JewishHobbit]

I think Batman could handle a zombie.

Good thing Jesus is more than a zombie ;)

Did anyone ever read that comic that came out a few years ago, I think it was Jesus vs Vampires or something like that? It may have been Zombies.

All I remember is one of them pinning Jesus down and he spit on it and it's head ignited in fire. "Tis Holy Spit!"

I only skimmed it as it wasn't quite my tastes, but I always remembered that part. I got a kick out of it.

[Addendum]

Good thing Jesus is more than a zombie ;)

The undead son of god. Better?

[Scar Predator]

I've never seen/read/heard of anyone actually worshipping a super hero. Seriously, this group needs to stop wasting it's time and funds on such trivial matters.

[Heretic]

A deal that worked out well for nearly the entire history of the Earth and has built faith and encouragement to this day. I say God made out on that deal. Spider-Man, however, was just selfish and no good repercussions came of it.

Though I'll admit this... I swear that is the most boring and tedious book I've tried to read.

Not sure how the deal with Job had any benefit to anyone at all aside from God's own ego.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Ahh another Atheist baiting thread, unwittingly so ofcourse. Boring.

Anyway most fans do not worship Superhero's and even if they did it's not anybody's business. Freedom of Religion and all that.

[Whiskey Tango]

Baiting thread? What?

[JewishHobbit]

Not sure how the deal with Job had any benefit to anyone at all aside from God's own ego.

Well, Job got I think twice as much of what he had before God allowed Satan to take it away, so he made out in the deal. The hardest part was his kids dying but he got twice as many out of it later and as a believer, his short time on Earth may have been hard but he has eternity not only with the kids who died but all those he got after the deal. So a couple hundred short years without those kids in the face of eternity with them plus more is a good deal. And that's if the story is to be taken literally.

Outside of Job the rest of us through the centuries were given a tale to encourage us through our hardships. There's a LOT of people who look at the piece as something to cling to when things get rough, which can be a wonderful thing. So yeah, a lot's come from it. Not for you obviously because you want nothing from it, but for thousands of others... most definately.

But this isn't a religious debate thread. This is a bash Fred Phelps thread, which I think we can all agree to do in unison. Let us bash the douchebag together :)

[the_ultimate_evil]

they'll never make it out alive lol

[Whiskey Tango]

Ten Ways To Protest The Westboro Baptist Church At San Diego (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/07/09/ten-ways-to-protest-the-westoboro-baptist-church-at-san-diego/) by Rich Johnston

[B]

I don't want to put ideas into peoples head, but aren't guns for the most part.. legal in the US..

[JewishHobbit]

Please do put it in people's heads ;)

Id like to see an army of Jesus's picketing Fred Phelps, standing right infront of them with signs that says stuff like "Jesus strongly dislikes Bigots" and "Jesus loves Gays too". Maybe even add scriptures to support those things. Not just being rude to him (which would be fun as well) but actually show them wrong using the scriptures.

Then again, someoen dressed as Jesus with a "I hate Fred Phelps" shirt would be priceless. God would chuckle a bit I think.

[Lighthouse]

I'm always waiting for the headline "Phelp's Westboro Baptist Church protests Anti-Gay groups for not being anti-gay enough".

[MessiahDecoy123]

Ten Ways To Protest The Westboro Baptist Church At San Diego (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/07/09/ten-ways-to-protest-the-westoboro-baptist-church-at-san-diego/) by Rich Johnston
Those are great.

off-topic: That Thor costume looks better than the movie's. :csad:

[chamber-music]

I've never seen/read/heard of anyone actually worshipping a super hero. Seriously, this group needs to stop wasting it's time and funds on such trivial matters.

Wasting time on trivial and inconsequential matters is all they are about. Pestering and annoying random people is their modus operandi :cmad:

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I think the connection one feels with God is more, a feeling that your own body produces, because you believe in what you are doing and feel it's getting you to a better place both in life and the afterlife. I don't really believe it's a connection to anyone else.

But I love that it makes other people feel better irregardless.

This guy used the word "irregardless"

He is a sinner of the highest variety, you will be damned to eternal hellfire for this affront against the Lord.

[Metamorpho1977]

Please do put it in people's heads ;)

Id like to see an army of Jesus's picketing Fred Phelps, standing right infront of them with signs that says stuff like "Jesus strongly dislikes Bigots" and "Jesus loves Gays too". Maybe even add scriptures to support those things. Not just being rude to him (which would be fun as well) but actually show them wrong using the scriptures.

Then again, someoen dressed as Jesus with a "I hate Fred Phelps" shirt would be priceless. God would chuckle a bit I think.

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh365/Markjr1977/BuddyChrist.jpg

[Metamorpho1977]

Those are great.

off-topic: That Thor costume looks better than the movie's. :csad:

Yeah, but the guy in it looks like he's trying to sell meth to high schoolers/

[SuperFerret]

I'd love to see a sign saying

"With great power must come great responsibility." -- Stan; 3:16

[B]

I'd love to see a sign saying

:pal:

It would rule if the people that go made signs with quotes like this from superhero movies, comics, TV shows etc etc :up:

[Harry_Lime02]

At least this latest attention-seeking stunt is just stupid, rather than flat-out offensive.

Very few things make me angry nowadays, but these lot do.

[Schlosser85]

Who. Cares.

They must be getting really desperate for attention. It's the one and only thing in the universe they give a damn about.

[Figs]

This is just pathetic really. I enjoy and am entertained by these comic characters but in no way is that considered worship. I have a few comic character statues at home but it's not like I ****ing kneel before them and pray. :doh:

[ico]

Shirley Phelps

http://blogs.sj-r.com/boilerroom/wp-content/uploads/phelpsroper.jpg

Dayum. Who knew one of Fred Phelps daughters was infact Meg Mucklebones.

http://blog.emerson.edu/sprg10jr408landsman/13814-10962.gif

[Heretic]

I am planning to (whenever it happens) protest at Fred Phelps funeral...maybe carry a sign that says Gay Jesus Hates Bigots or something...I have a small but growing number of people that have all agreed to make a little trip of it.

[Carcharodon]

...irregardless.No. Stop that. BAD JustABill! :cmad:

EDIT: I guess this has already been covered. Whoops. :o

[SuperFerret]

I find Bill's use of "irregardless" to be ironic.

[Carcharodon]

I don't want to put ideas into peoples head, but aren't guns for the most part.. legal in the US..

Please do put it in people's heads ;)My....how Christ-like of you. :dry:

[ico]

I find Bill's use of "irregardless" to be ironic.

I find it irresponsible.

[Carcharodon]

I find Bill's use of "irregardless" to be ironic.You would. :cmad:

[SuperFerret]

I do. :cmad:

[The Battousai]

Well, Job got I think twice as much of what he had before God allowed Satan to take it away, so he made out in the deal.

I suppose if you view a wife and children as nothing more than possessions that can easily be replaced, then sure. However, that would make you a monster.

The hardest part was his kids dying but he got twice as many out of it later and as a believer, his short time on Earth may have been hard but he has eternity not only with the kids who died but all those he got after the deal.

If eternity is supposed to be spent with God - the entity who essentially had your family killed - then desiring such a fate would a symptom of psychological disorder.

So a couple hundred short years

Oh yeah - it's one of those stories

without those kids in the face of eternity with them plus more is a good deal. And that's if the story is to be taken literally.

Eternity doing what? Hugging in a circle?

[Backdrifter]

Theologically speaking, they are correct. The spirit and method in which they are delivering the message only causes it to fall on deaf ears.

[Schlosser85]

They're spouting a perverted interpretation of the Bible in which God hates everyone and everything.

[Heretic]

They're spouting a perverted interpretation of the Bible in which God hates everyone and everything.

Have you read the Bible?? When taken in complete context, God IS a hateful, woman-hating, bigoted, murderous, psychotic jerk.

[ChickenScratch]

Good lessons on how to treat your slaves in there too. As well as stoning or otherwise killing sinners. Good times.

[JustABill]

Irregardless. Irregardless. Irregardless. Calm the **** down it's just a (made up) word. :cmad:

[Heretic]

Good lessons on how to treat your slaves in there too. As well as stoning or otherwise killing sinners. Good times.

By "sinners" you mean "your own children" right? Or maybe I'm thinking of the rape and incest that God condones...hmmm...amid all of the evil that comes from God it's hard to tell (please...no one should claim that God doesnt commit evil acts...it clearly states that he does a few times).

[Schlosser85]

I don't believe the Bible is the literal word of God, I believe it may have been "inspired" by God but was written by man, who is fallible and misinterpreted things, along with putting his own prejudices into it.

I don't think Leviticus is worth the paper it was printed on, for instance.

[ChickenScratch]

Just anyone deemed sinner by their rules, including original sin (a concept that's pretty horrid if you ask me). I'm happy to be an atheist

[JewishHobbit]

I suppose if you view a wife and children as nothing more than possessions that can easily be replaced, then sure. However, that would make you a monster.

You really don't get the notion of eternity do you? Death is temporary. I've lost loved ones but I don't get mad at God about it because it's not like I'm not going to see those people again. Everyone dies, so whether it happens sooner or later is irrelivent. Fact remains though, we still have a lot of time left, just not over the next however long I have. I'm not worried about it. Yes, it'll be sad and I'll mourn when my wife or children pass, but it's still just temporary. And if I ended up having more children I'd look forward to the time when all the children could be together. Hope does not equal monster, just acceptance that death isn't the end like you seem to think it is.

If eternity is supposed to be spent with God - the entity who essentially had your family killed - then desiring such a fate would a symptom of psychological disorder.

Let me get this straight... everyone in the history of the world has died. Everyone alive now will die. Everyone who will be born will die. And yet because my family died, I should be ticked off at God? Especially when it was He (as I believe) who went out of his way to make it so that I COULD still have an eternity with those same loved ones who died.

Seriously, how dare God expect me to live an eternal happiness with those I love past present and future!! What an evil tyrant who allows me to never say goodbye to my loved ones again! I can see what you mean. My family can be in eternity happy and never departed from each other, but I sure don't want to be there with this God who made it possible that I could spend time with them. Screw that!

;)


Eternity doing what? Hugging in a circle?

Doing whatever the heck I feel like. It's freakin' eternity. I plan on getting some Pitch in myself, maybe some swimming.

[JewishHobbit]

By "sinners" you mean "your own children" right? Or maybe I'm thinking of the rape and incest that God condones...hmmm...amid all of the evil that comes from God it's hard to tell (please...no one should claim that God doesnt commit evil acts...it clearly states that he does a few times).

Examples please... and do stick with New Testiment teachings, as the Mercy provided by Christ undoes the old laws.

[JewishHobbit]

My....how Christ-like of you. :dry:

I have my moments ;)

[JewishHobbit]

Have you read the Bible?? When taken in complete context, God IS a hateful, woman-hating, bigoted, murderous, psychotic jerk.

You're one of those people who read just the parts you find offensive and pretend the rest doesn't exist, aren't you? I'd like to test you on that even. For every one of these things you've listed there are also examples that disproves this in the scriptures as well. Quote those. If you can't (aka "I don't have to quote anything") then I'd say it's a safe assumption that you're just biggoted, blinders, the whole deal, about the Bible and likely the followers as well.

And really, I do find it funny that a thread is brought up about a bigot in one area who you obviously hate, and you still feel justified by bein biggoted to others in the same breath.

That is, of course, if you can't defend your supreme Biblical understanding.

[SuperFerret]

You can't take the Bible too literally. Ironically, it's a lot like comic books. Sure, some of it is outdated and much more offensive now than at the time it was written, but there's a lot of good lessons in there.

Still, just as with every character in every story, be they fictional or not, you can learn something of value from them. It doesn't matter if you're learning to love thy neighbor from Jesus Christ, or that everyone has a responsibility that's equal to their individual power from Spider-Man.

The details mean jack ****. The lessons behind the stories are what's important.

[Heretic]

You're one of those people who read just the parts you find offensive and pretend the rest doesn't exist, aren't you? I'd like to test you on that even. For every one of these things you've listed there are also examples that disproves this in the scriptures as well. Quote those. If you can't (aka "I don't have to quote anything") then I'd say it's a safe assumption that you're just biggoted, blinders, the whole deal, about the Bible and likely the followers as well.

And really, I do find it funny that a thread is brought up about a bigot in one area who you obviously hate, and you still feel justified by bein biggoted to others in the same breath.

That is, of course, if you can't defend your supreme Biblical understanding.

LOL

No...YOU are the one who disregards bible passages to support your view. You JUST POSTED that the New Testament makes much of the Old Testament null and void...so your accusation is ridiculous.

I have read the bible...and it is either the word of God, or it's fiction. You ADMIT that for every evil thing God supports or does that there is a contradiction for it...does that sound perfect and unerring to you?

So no...I accept the Bible as a complete work. A contradictory, scientifically inaccurate piece of fiction. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of...dismissing everything that makes God look bad or wrong so that you can maintain your beliefs.

I'm not a bigot about anything. Science and history are not bigoted since they are based on FACTS and not belief. Belief in the Bible is simply a belief...and therefor open to bigoted thoughts.

And I do not understand the Bible. I never claimed to. I could never understand something so completely inaccurate and contradictory that claims to be perfect and unerring words from a supreme being. that would take an enormous leap of faith in the face of facts that I'm not willing to take.

[The Battousai]

You really don't get the notion of eternity do you? Death is temporary. I've lost loved ones but I don't get mad at God about it because it's not like I'm not going to see those people again. Everyone dies, so whether it happens sooner or later is irrelivent. Fact remains though, we still have a lot of time left, just not over the next however long I have. I'm not worried about it. Yes, it'll be sad and I'll mourn when my wife or children pass, but it's still just temporary. And if I ended up having more children I'd look forward to the time when all the children could be together. Hope does not equal monster, just acceptance that death isn't the end like you seem to think it is.



Let me get this straight... everyone in the history of the world has died. Everyone alive now will die. Everyone who will be born will die. And yet because my family died, I should be ticked off at God? Especially when it was He (as I believe) who went out of his way to make it so that I COULD still have an eternity with those same loved ones who died.

Seriously, how dare God expect me to live an eternal happiness with those I love past present and future!! What an evil tyrant who allows me to never say goodbye to my loved ones again! I can see what you mean. My family can be in eternity happy and never departed from each other, but I sure don't want to be there with this God who made it possible that I could spend time with them. Screw that!

;)


All of this is based on presumptions without a solid basis. In order for any of this to have any merit, you need a) the afterlife to exist; b) that afterlife to be something that isn't bad; c) your loved ones to be destined - or have been destined - to go there when they die; d) all of you will be together there; e) that time exists in this afterlife.

Approach the situation from the point of view of not knowing any of these things, and you will see my point.

I can live my life believing that myself and all of my family and friends will become superheroes in another dimension when they die, and that would be no different.

Doing whatever the heck I feel like. It's freakin' eternity. I plan on getting some Pitch in myself, maybe some swimming.

The Holodeck?

[ico]

*religious argument goes over head*

Say, I'm in the mood for some pie! Who's in?

[Schlosser85]

If it's cherry, apple, or blueberry.

[Whiskey Tango]

Fred Phelps & Westboro Baptist Church pickets pie!
"God hates pie" claims bigot.

[Schlosser85]

Now that is just crossing the line.

Gays, soldiers, funerals, the Pope, Virginia Tech, Heath Ledger, John Edwards, the Swedish, America, ComicCon.....that's all one thing, but protesting PIE?!

HAVE SOME LINE OF BASIC DECENCY, MAN!

[ico]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WHY GOD, WHYY?! First you take sodomy from me, and now pie!

:waa:

[Raiden]

Fred Phelps is an idiot. I hope next time he gets attacked by Joker, Batman will ignore his pleas for help. :batman:

[JewishHobbit]

I now remember that you're a anti-religious bigot who won't listen to anything a christian says no matter what it is so there really isn't any reason to debate you, as this isn't the thread for it and you're as much a biggot as Fred Phelps... deaf ears retarded reasonings. But for the sake of finishing with the statements I've stared:

LOL

No...YOU are the one who disregards bible passages to support your view. You JUST POSTED that the New Testament makes much of the Old Testament null and void...so your accusation is ridiculous.

Christ's sacrefice undoing many of the old laws is in no way disregarding bible passages. Old Testiment laws were due to the fact that there was no forgiveness of sins as we know it now. It had to be earned or through death, which is why it was so harsh back then. When Christ died sinless it covered all that so the harshness is no longer required. The Old Laws aren't being disregarding, they're simply no longer relevant. That leads me to what you say next....

I have read the bible...and it is either the word of God, or it's fiction. You ADMIT that for every evil thing God supports or does that there is a contradiction for it...does that sound perfect and unerring to you?

So no...I accept the Bible as a complete work. A contradictory, scientifically inaccurate piece of fiction. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of...dismissing everything that makes God look bad or wrong so that you can maintain your beliefs.

You can read stuff without comprehending it, or studying it, or knowing how it works. I've been reading Ivanhoe, which is a couple hundred years old. I could have just read it and said I read it and picked the parts I chose to quote and throw around, but instead I've been studying it so that I understand everything it's saying. If you can't even figure out the New Testiment making portions of the Old Testiment irrelevant then I'd say it's safe to assume you've just read and have no idea WHAT you've read... which makes most of what you say rediculous. For every thing that we'd consider bad to this day there is a reason for it (whether we like it or not), but there is a reason. There's also steps taken in the Bible so that these things no longer have to be done... mostly through Jesus Christ... which is why the New Testiment renders parts of the Old Testiment irrelevant. So yes, unerring. Know the Bible buddy, don't just quote it. Know how things in the book of Revelations effect things in Isaiah, or how things in Mathew change things in Leviticus, etc. Know how things in Thessalonians further things in Jeremiah, etc. The Bible isn't face value, things in one place effects things in other places. These are the portions you ignore.

And going on that vein I'd like to point out a few similarities. Fred Phelps takes portions of the Bible to criticize things to the point of rediculousness. Heretic takes portions of the Bible to criticize things to the point of rediculousness. You're doing the exact same thing as Fred Phelps save that he's doing it against gays and such and you do it against christians and the Bible and such. From what I can tell you and Fred Phelps are from the same line of thinking, just for differant reasons.

I'm not a bigot about anything. Science and history are not bigoted since they are based on FACTS and not belief. Belief in the Bible is simply a belief...and therefor open to bigoted thoughts.

Science is based on theory... just fyi. Finding of facts, sure, but based on theory. You're putting faith in theory same as religous people are putting faith on a religious theory. You're the same, just with a different God.

And you say you aren't bigotted but you've come into a thread having nothing to do with the Bible and act the way you have here (and the same way you act in several other religious threads). Deeds typically mean more than words.

And I do not understand the Bible. I never claimed to. I could never understand something so completely inaccurate and contradictory that claims to be perfect and unerring words from a supreme being. that would take an enormous leap of faith in the face of facts that I'm not willing to take.

If you don't understand it then how can you call it inaccurate or contradictory? You're like my little sister who swears Stephanie Meyer is the worst writer in the world but has never read a single book she's written. Just because you don't understand something or how it works doesn't make it out to be how you make it out to be. You just don't understand it. The fault is yours, not the Bible's.

The Bible's not hard to understand and decipher, it really isn't. I've never found anything inaccrate or contradictory when putting the entire thing in context. I've found things that I thought could be but further study typically uncovers the reasonings that make it make sense.


But like I said in the beginning of this post, you and I have had this conversation before and you don't listen to a word no matter how often things are explained. It's not that difficult to get. You still won't try to understand the Bible and continue to dog on it despite not understanding it. You're like a person who watches ten minutes of a film and bashes it, ignoring the other 170 minutes that make those 10 make sense. So really, there's no reason to continue the conversation as you'll likely just keep dogging the Bible for the sake of dogging it without any basis other than you just don't want it to be true. And as I said earlier, that's your problem, not the Bible's.

[JewishHobbit]

You can't take the Bible too literally. Ironically, it's a lot like comic books. Sure, some of it is outdated and much more offensive now than at the time it was written, but there's a lot of good lessons in there.

Still, just as with every character in every story, be they fictional or not, you can learn something of value from them. It doesn't matter if you're learning to love thy neighbor from Jesus Christ, or that everyone has a responsibility that's equal to their individual power from Spider-Man.

The details mean jack ****. The lessons behind the stories are what's important.

There's no reason you can't take it literally. Personally, I take it mostly literally with a few exceptions. (I don't necessarilly believe the quotes are word for word of what was said but the notion of what was said was captured... however, I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong on that).

You have the right to just take the ideas and apply them to life but there's nothing proving or leading the Book to be false and so there's nothing keeping people like me from believing it literally. That's just up to the reader to decide for themselves.

[ChickenScratch]

I always love to hear the arguments of people who actually believe this religion stuff. Always good for a laugh.

[JewishHobbit]

All of this is based on presumptions without a solid basis. In order for any of this to have any merit, you need a) the afterlife to exist; b) that afterlife to be something that isn't bad; c) your loved ones to be destined - or have been destined - to go there when they die; d) all of you will be together there; e) that time exists in this afterlife.

Approach the situation from the point of view of not knowing any of these things, and you will see my point.

Oh, I get your point. It's a very athiest or agnostic thing that I've heard over and over and over and over again (there's not much creativity among the vocal athiests and agnostics). Thing is, the person in the story discussed, Job, did believe in all these things, same as I do. So honestly, while it was sad and Job did have trouble dealing with it, in the end he did benefit from it and never faulted God for it one bit. Same as I never got mad at God when I lost friends, my daughter, or other family members. The story of Job was an example of this as well.

Do you have to believe it? No. But there's no benefit or sense in shooting down the story for those who do believe it, so why do it?


The Holodeck?

Not getting the reference, sorry. What's Holodeck got to do with swimming or playing cards?

[JewishHobbit]

I always love to hear the arguments of people who actually believe this religion stuff. Always good for a laugh.

I always get a kick out of hearing people bashing the Bible for reasons they don't even understand... tit for tat I suppose. But hey, live without hope. Someone dies and you miss them, your loss. I like knowing that it isn't the end.

[ChickenScratch]

Better than living with unproven delusions of a heaven or afterlife that no one has ever seen and only exists on paper. Or did I miss the part with the bus trips to heaven so we can all see it for ourselves? Yes when someone dies I miss them, how is that a loss? Better than thinking about some unfounded eventuality.

[Bruce Wayne]

:facepalm:

It just had to turn into another religious argument, didn't it? None of you could just sit there and discuss the actual matter at hand, which is that this Phelps idiot represents neither Christian nor Non-Christian ideology. It had go into the territory of the childishness of "I believe this!" and "I believe that!". It's no surprise that neither side can find a rational middle ground anymore, when something as simple as this riles both up so quickly.

C'mon, people. Don't prove rthe Westboro Baptist Church's extremist agenda right and give merit to absolutely ludicrous claims and ill-deserved attention. They're attacking comic books, now. Comic books. Next they're going to picket Disneyland and accuse Mickey Mouse of being a false prophet, or exclaim slander against Han Solo. It simply is not something that warrants this much debate, regardless of which side of the fence you stand on.

[JewishHobbit]

Better than living with unproven delusions of a heaven or afterlife that no one has ever seen and only exists on paper. Or did I miss the part with the bus trips to heaven so we can all see it for ourselves?

Funny how many people claim to have seen the afterlife, or have seen angels or demons, or have had miracles or seen them or performed them, etc. in the world and yet people still say no one's seen these types of things. And if this is brought up suddenly it's a question of sanity. People call christians closed minded but I swear it's completely reveresed. It really is sad.

Yes when someone dies I miss them, how is that a loss? Better than thinking about some unfounded eventuality.

You lose someone and you don't understand how that's a loss? Okay... the next point then. If you lose someone and the knowledge that you'll see them again helps you cope with the loss and move on, there's a benefit to that. And if there ends up being no afterlife then not only is that person not there but when I die I'll not even know there was no afterlife. I lived and died believing it and being happy and filled with hope and never knew any different even in death. I'd call that better than going throughout your entire life knowing that a person you care deeply for is dead and rotting and you'll never see them or hear their voice again. If you'd rather have that then power to you. I'll take the more hopeful approach. I'll either be right or know no differant. That's okay with me.

[JewishHobbit]

:facepalm:

It just had to turn into another religious argument, didn't it? None of you could just sit there and discuss the actual matter at hand, which is that this Phelps idiot represents neither Christian nor Non-Christian ideology. It had go into the territory of the childishness of "I believe this!" and "I believe that!". It's no surprise that neither side can find a rational middle ground anymore, when something as simple as this riles both up so quickly.

C'mon, people. Don't prove rthe Westboro Baptist Church's extremist agenda right and give merit to absolutely ludicrous claims and ill-deserved attention. They're attacking comic books, now. Comic books. Next they're going to picket Disneyland and accuse Mickey Mouse of being a false prophet, or exclaim slander against Han Solo. It simply is not something that warrants this much debate, regardless of which side of the fence you stand on.

I agree. There was no argument until the anti-religious crowd came in. I even asked once to leave it be and just bash Fred Phelps, but no, they had to continue bashing the Bible. I've noticed that this is typically how it goes. Sorry that I encouraged them. It's not like they listen anyhow. I'll go ahead and call my end finished.


Fred Phelps sucks.

[imaperson2]

So I don't want to get into this argument...but JH REALLY?!?!?! You'd prefer living in a world of false hope instead of opening your eyes to reality? ayayay.

[JewishHobbit]

So I don't want to get into this argument...but JH REALLY?!?!?! You'd prefer living in a world of false hope instead of opening your eyes to reality? ayayay.

Who has the proper knowledge to say it's false? If it can be completely one hundred percent proven that there is no afterlife, THEN it'd be false hope. Otherwise it's hope based on faith and experiences. That I'm okay with.

[Backdrifter]

So I don't want to get into this argument...but JH REALLY?!?!?! You'd prefer living in a world of false hope instead of opening your eyes to reality? ayayay.

The reality that there is no hope?

Without a transcendent God to give meaning to what He has created, all that is has no meaning other than what we as individuals give to it.

This means that, ultimately, there is no evil and there is no good. This means that ultimately there is no such thing as objective beauty, or love.

Everything in my being screams that this is not the case.


I used to be an atheist. When I came to have faith in Jesus Christ sacrificial death and resurrection, it was not something that I logically concluded on my own. It was a spiritual awakening via the Holy Spirit calling me to spiritual life.

I know exactly what Christianity looks like, because I have stood looking at it from the other side. It looks like foolishness. It looks like anyone who believes that stuff is nuts.

But, I have to be honest, we are blind to God. Yet, there is something in us that knows He is real and but actively suppresses it. Nobody will admit it. But, I encourage you to examine how you feel about Christianity in regards to other religions. Christianity seems to sting more. Something about it makes people angry.

All I know is that one moment I didn't believe and the next I was undone before God and clinging to Jesus Christ in overwhelming joy and peace.

[Carcharodon]

Science is based on theory... just fyi. Finding of facts, sure, but based on theory. You're putting faith in theory same as religous people are putting faith on a religious theory. You're the same, just with a different God.This is incorrect...in principle. Perhaps not in practice. There's a big difference between science and religion...science does not require faith.

Seriously though people, can't we get back on topic? Or can a mod move the past several posts into the Religion Discussion and Debate thread?