should thor fly or should he be pulled by his hammer?

[spider-neil]

how should thor propel himself through the air?

how should thor hover?

if thor is airbound and flings his hammer what should happen?

[afan]

If he flies in the film....and I think it's probably a big if, the hammer should definitely pull him. If he throws it, it always comes back to him, so he would drop, gracefully of course, until it returns.

[spider-neil]

If he flies in the film....and I think it's probably a big if, the hammer should definitely pull him. If he throws it, it always comes back to him, so he would drop, gracefully of course, until it returns.

in hulk vs thor, thor is definately flying. he is in the air and flings his hammer at hulk but is still hovering.

[afan]

Thing is..........Thor flying is an invention purely of the comics. Made possible by throwing the hammer, then quickly grabbing the strap. It is not the ability of the hammer to fly per se., but the momentum of that powerful throw that carries Thor along behind the hammer. It's kind of akin to the Hulk's leap; once momentum is spent Thor would begin to fall.

I always loved that explanation and the image of Thor spinning the hammer in a circle to throw it and himself into the sky, I'ld love to see that on film, but at the same time I'm not sure how that would play out on film. Hence my "if he flies on film" observation.

[spider-neil]

Thing is..........Thor flying is an invention purely of the comics. Made possible by throwing the hammer, then quickly grabbing the strap. It is not the ability of the hammer to fly per se., but the momentum of that powerful throw that carries Thor along behind the hammer. It's kind of akin to the Hulk's leap; once momentum is spent Thor would begin to fall.

I always loved that explanation and the image of Thor spinning the hammer in a circle to throw it and himself into the sky, I'ld love to see that on film, but at the same time I'm not sure how that would play out on film. Hence my "if he flies on film" observation.

it definately will be interesting to see how they portry thor's take off. if they hae hemsworth spin the hammer really quickly and then yank him off the floor or if they do the entire sequence with CG

[Triad]

Yeah,I think it's absolutley necessary that they show Thor spining Mjolnir in a great arc and having it pull him into the clouds!

[marcvader]

He needs to be shown spinning the hammer and taking off with it as it's pretty much Thor's thing but at the same time I wan't him to be able to stay afloat still fighting while his hammer is momenterily separated from him after he's thrown it. He has to be able to fly to some degree as well.

[spider-neil]

He needs to be shown spinning the hammer and taking off with it as it's pretty much Thor's thing but at the same time I wan't him to be able to stay afloat still fighting while his hammer is momenterily separated from him after he's thrown it. He has to be able to fly to some degree as well.


this is going to be the major issue for the effects people, picture it;

thor sees a 30 foot tall frost giant, throws his hammer and takes off, when thor is within striking distance he swings the hammer above his head like a helicopter propeller and hovers above the giant, then thor throws his hammer with all of his might at the frost giant...

thor is 30 feet in the air, what should happen

a) he should float until the hammer hits its mark and returns to his hand
b) he should immediately start to fall once the hammer is thrown and only when the hammer returns to his hand should his free fall stop as he spins the hammer above his head again

in the case of 'b' (remember thor can't fly) how good will that look on the big screen. to tell the truth it sound horrible.

[TruerToTheCore]

The hammer-flying is the ridiculous thing about Thor. I love it when Marvel fans bash Superman as stupid and then they praise a guy who throws a hammer into the air and hangs on to fly.

[Spider-Fan83]

What about maybe…

c) when in the air and he throws his hammer, it does something of a full circle back to him (instead of returning straight to him) so, as he’s falling gracefully the hammer passes by him again from behind, so, he can grab it and keep going forward without it losing its momentum
(if that makes any sense to how it work in the comic, idk, don't really fellow them that closely)

for the most part while in the air if being pulled be the hammer, even once he lets go, or throws it, he wouldn't just stop mid air and start falling straight down (like the, wiley coyote), he'd still be moving in a forward momentum, and not so much be fly, but, almost kinda gliding, so to speak
(again if any of that makes sense, i mean, I am no expert in physics)

[Nathan]

I wouldn't mind if the hammer grants him the ability to fly, since it's a with magic imbued item. I just don't like the idea of him constantly swinging and throwing the hammer for continued flight or when he has to change directions.

[Spider-Fan83]

well, idk, about him flying long distances, where he has to continually throw it, or change dictions, I think that is best left avoid

he shouldn't be using this ability to fly around like superman, more just for quick distance leaps (kinda like the hulks jumping) or to get up into the air, in a battle against, giants, flying opponents, or air crafts (once in a modern setting)

I can't see him really needing to fly any great distances, like that

[Webhead2006]

hmm i dont know much on the thor character so i dont know how things about flying and his hammer all work out.

[spider-neil]

hmm i dont know much on the thor character so i dont know how things about flying and his hammer all work out.

in the marvel handbook it definately state that thor doesn't fly, therefore if he is air bound and throws his hammer he SHOULD fall, the question is how good would that look on the big screen.

[Deadpool876]

I don't think Thor should fall just like that when he throws his hammer. It wouldn't look good on screen. I'm thinking what if the hammer grants him temporary levetation when he throws it.

If the hammer somehow doesn't return to him for several seconds, he should fall slowly and gracefully. I think that would look good on screen.

[Nathan]

He needs some degree of flight. Sure, the comics say he uses the momentum when he throws his hammer, but you never see him crash down when he reaches his intended landing spot. He always descends rather gracefully. You never see him abruptly fall down.

I'm voting for the hammer to grant him flight. And the classic swing and throw activates it. I actually want him to be able to stay in the air when he casts all his lighting and thunder.

I'm sure nobody complained when he could float in the MUA Intro.

ehSMJypYSDM

[Wolfman]

I think he should move like in the Ultimates, as a lightning. Look better on screen.

[spider-neil]

the reason thor doesn't crash into the ground is because he begins to swing his hammer like a helicopter propeller. I don't have a problem with thor's landings or take offs or even how he hovers because he is using the hammer to achieve it, its when the hammer leaves his hand, that's the problem.

[Nathan]

Swinging his hammer like a propeller, now if that isn't going to look silly on screen.

[Triad]

I don't think so. Personally, I think that would look kinda cool, but that's just me. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Thor also wear a belt that has mystical properties? If so, couldn't one of said powers be that it allows the wearer to control his molecular density where he may become lighter or heavier than normal depending on the circumstances? When he releases the hammer in a throw, he will start to fall in the direction his momentum was taking him, but at a slightly slower, more controlled rate. When Mjolnir returns in it's arc, Thor can catch it and either continue on in his original course or alter it in another direction. Just a thought.

[Nathan]

He can summon the hammer to come to him with his thoughts. It wouldn't be a stretch to think that he could us the hammer to stay in the air.

[Spider-Fan83]

while, beside the use of his hammer

what about explaining it as part of his control of the elements

how does Storm or Electro fly? doesn't it have something to do with the manipulation of electric currents, creating a static lifting effect..... or something like that

ok, I don't really know how exactly to explain it....

anyone??? is there something there that they could work with???

[Nathan]

Storm uses the air currents.

[Triad]

while, beside the use of his hammer

what about explaining it as part of his control of the elements

how does Storm or Electro fly? doesn't it have something to do with the manipulation of electric currents, creating a static lifting effect..... or something like that

ok, I don't really know how exactly to explain it....

anyone??? is there something there that they could work with???

I bet that would look cool on film. When he lets go of the hammer, electric current travels from him to the ground and possibly the hammer as well on it's return flight.

[spider-neil]

I don't think so. Personally, I think that would look kinda cool, but that's just me. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Thor also wear a belt that has mystical properties? If so, couldn't one of said powers be that it allows the wearer to control his molecular density where he may become lighter or heavier than normal depending on the circumstances? When he releases the hammer in a throw, he will start to fall in the direction his momentum was taking him, but at a slightly slower, more controlled rate. When Mjolnir returns in it's arc, Thor can catch it and either continue on in his original course or alter it in another direction. Just a thought.


thor's belt of strength is from norse legend. it doubles his strength but that's about it

[spider-neil]

air currents and electric currents are good explainations for staying in the air when he is holding the hammer but not when he throws the hammer.
basically thor is like the hulk, raw strength its the hammer that gives him power over the elements

[TheCorpulent1]

Mjolnir has flat-out levitated in the comics without being thrown, so I say just have Mjolnir mystically allow Thor to fly when he's holding it without the convoluted explanation about how he throws it and catches the thong and blah-dee-blah-blah.

[spider-neil]

Mjolnir has flat-out levitated in the comics without being thrown, so I say just have Mjolnir mystically allow Thor to fly when he's holding it without the convoluted explanation about how he throws it and catches the thong and blah-dee-blah-blah.


when has that happened?

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor vol. 1, #208

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/Thor/thor208mjolnirhover.jpg

I can't recall instances of Thor actually stating or showing that Mjolnir is merely levitating on its own and pulling him along, as opposed to his throwing it and grabbing the thong, but given that page and the numerous instances Mjolnir has moved in much more complex ways than just one arc, it seems pretty obvious that it could. Not that it really needs any basis in the comics in the first place; it's a movie, which is obviously going to differ from the comics in certain ways.

[marcvader]

What keep's him aloft when he's not holding it?

[TheCorpulent1]

Nothing. He falls until it returns to him. And before you ask, yes, he's had it knocked away and fallen flat on his face. :)

[spider-neil]

the movie could of course circumvent the problem entirely by making sure the hammer never leaves thor's hand when he is in flight.

[TheCorpulent1]

But throwing his hammer accounts for like half of his moves. I guess they could have him land first, though.

[Nathan]

He's a god. He could throw his hammer in mid-air and then land on his feet without any serious injury. Or the hammer returns just before he hits the ground.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but it looks a bit foolish for a guy who appears to be flying to toss his hammer and then fall uncontrollably.

[Weadazoid]

Ya know what....


Why not do the whole whirl about thing and throw to get him goin;


Then is he tosses it have him in a very... Realistic way bolt back down to the ground as if riding on lightning...instead of hovering... or he could bolt anywhere he wanted.


How many times have we seen iconic images of Thor with lightning all around him?


What I envision is something like the way the Aliens first traveled to earth in the Latest war of the Worlds movie...only far less confusing.


Maybe..... just maybe this could be the way his Hammer returns to his hand... once he is on the ground or if he is already grounded but has flung his hammer..
a flash of lighting and blam it is back in his hand... this way you don't get a corny boomer rang thing.... and it seems more like a god of thunder kind of thing.

[Nathan]

Yeah, but it looks a bit foolish for a guy who appears to be flying to toss his hammer and then fall uncontrollably.

How does he do it in the comics? In the VS Hulk DTV he threw it a couple times while in the air. But then just simply slowly levitated down. It could be explained that at the same time he throws his hammer, he creates a wind funnel that keeps him temporarily in the air.

[TheCorpulent1]

But then it sort of gets a bit clunky because of all the technicalities. We're all used to Thor's unique means of flight because we've read the comics and we've got nearly 50 years of reinforcement for it. On the surface, it does come off as a bit of a silly way to fly, especially when so many heroes can fly simply because they just can.

Personally, I'd sooner have them simply explain that he rides air currents all the time and simply likes to hold his hammer ahead of him for a cool pose. It's much simpler and easier to swallow than the hammer-throw method, and if Storm can do it, why not Thor?

[spider-neil]

But then it sort of gets a bit clunky because of all the technicalities. We're all used to Thor's unique means of flight because we've read the comics and we've got nearly 50 years of reinforcement for it. On the surface, it does come off as a bit of a silly way to fly, especially when so many heroes can fly simply because they just can.

Personally, I'd sooner have them simply explain that he rides air currents all the time and simply likes to hold his hammer ahead of him for a cool pose. It's much simpler and easier to swallow than the hammer-throw method, and if Storm can do it, why not Thor?


that's not going to fly (see what I did there? :oldrazz: ) because I'm pretty sure they are going to establish very early in the movie that all of thor' powers (except strength which is his birthright) comes from the hammer, therefore people will question anything thor does without the hammer in his hand.

thor looks really cool when he is tossing his hammer in midair but the visual is more trouble than it's worth. if there is a 30 foot giant thor should just fly to a small hill and fling his hammer from there.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ugh, then we're gonna have a ton of people who think Thor's powerless without his hammer flooding the boards. I'm not looking forward to that. I like Mjolnir as a powerful tool but Thor as the real power. :csad:

[Kurosawa]

Thor is a sky god...he can at least ride air currents without the hammer, as he can control wind. Using the hammer to take off gives him extra speed I would guess, and of course it is dramatic looking..but take away the hammer and Thor is...still the most powerful Avenger. I've seen him cause a blizzard in the comics as well as storms...basically Thor is on a power level about the same as the Post-Crisis Superman and he has weather powers that are the equal of Storms to boot.

How all this translates into a movie, who knows.

[Anubis]

Just let him fly. I've always thought that throwing the hammer thing was stupid any way.

[Captain Marvel]

Ugh, then we're gonna have a ton of people who think Thor's powerless without his hammer flooding the boards. I'm not looking forward to that. I like Mjolnir as a powerful tool but Thor as the real power. :csad:

Exactly. The inscription on the hammer, after all, reads ""Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." NOT "the power of Mjolnir", but the power of Thor. Mjolnir doesn't give him those abilities. It simply helps him focus them.

[Vartha]

I say let Mjolnir pull Thor along, if Thor pauses in mid air the hammer spins above him still in hand. It's a trademark move people remember as I've said in the costume thread.

Keep in mind the people who don't follow comics don't KNOW about Ulty Thor. The Ultimates are AIMED at Comicbook fans not the general public.

[Vartha]

Thor is a sky god...he can at least ride air currents without the hammer, as he can control wind. Using the hammer to take off gives him extra speed I would guess, and of course it is dramatic looking..but take away the hammer and Thor is...still the most powerful Avenger. I've seen him cause a blizzard in the comics as well as storms...basically Thor is on a power level about the same as the Post-Crisis Superman and he has weather powers that are the equal of Storms to boot.

How all this translates into a movie, who knows.

There was another Thor comic hero in the original Captain America's time who rode a bolt of lightning like a surf board. There are other ways Thor can travel.
I think being pulled along is fine.

[Ipodman]

If he spins the hammer in the air, it will be like when Hulk shouts Hulk smash in TIH... i dont know if thats a good or bad thing...

[Nathan]

The hammer can levitate, he holds the hammer to stay in the air. Simple. We shouldn't make it too complicated.

[[A]]

Pull, hammer! Pull! Pull like there's no tomorrow!

[Wolfman]

So... the ultimates way is a no no?

[Young Superman]

Thor Should be pulled by his hammer

[Captain Marvel]

So... the ultimates way is a no no?

Even though I'm not sure what you're talking about, I'm still gonna have to go with my standard answer of "HELL NO!", as what you're referencing is Ultimates related. :oldrazz:

[Ipodman]

Nick Fury is the Ultimate version... although i hope Marvel creates a "Live action movie Universe" where its something special

[TheCorpulent1]

They already are. There are bits and pieces of Ultimate, 616, and movie-only continuity all mixed up in the movies we've gotten so far.
The hammer can levitate, he holds the hammer to stay in the air. Simple. We shouldn't make it too complicated.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The way they did it in MUA2 was nice, actually. The hammer basically glowed a soft blue while it levitated him. That makes it clear that the hammer is doing the flying but it didn't run into the myriad problems of actually animating the convoluted throw-release-grab thong mechanic that we take for granted in still comic art.

[spider-neil]

thor controls wind currents and lightning without his hammer? since when?

[TheCorpulent1]

Since forever. There are numerous instances where he simply controls the weather without stamping his hammer the way his first appearance claimed he had to. Over time, he went from being treated as a superhero with a powerful weapon to a god with a divine birthright, basically.

[Nathan]

The most recent example is in the latest throwdown with Hercules, where they dressed up as each other. Herc was in possession of Mjolnir and Thor had his Golden Mace, yet he was able to summon down rain and lightning without the hammer.

[TheCorpulent1]

Actually, each had their own weapon. They just magically disguised them as the other guy's weapon. Honestly, I don't think Hercules would actually be worthy to lift Mjolnir. :hehe:

[Nathan]

D'oh! :doh: Forgot the whole hammer lifting deal.

[Dragon]

No one is worthy to lift Mjolnir but Thor. That loophole was thrown in by Walt Simonson. And Walt wasn't aware of the clarification that Don Blake was always Thor and the "worthiness" was Thor becoming humble via his service to the sick as Blake. We discussed this once. He's a nice guy BTW.

But as far as the ability of flight let's remember that there's no science to it, but that it's enchantment. I suppose the reason for Thor's powers (Flight, energy discharge, storm) being channeled through Mjolnir is that Mjplnir was his way of developing into Godhood and heir to the throne of Asgard, similar to Arthur and Excalibur.

So while Thor tossing and holding Mjolnir may be the physical act of how he flies, it's still a mystical process like Billy Batson saying "Shazam". The power isn't within Mjolnir, it comes from Thor but is focused through Mjolnir. We know this because when Odin removed Thor's Godhood Mjolnir simply became a an object. Anyone could lift it and it couldn't so anything magical.

[TheCorpulent1]

Are you talking about back in the #100s when Thor and other gods were stripped of their godhood and left on Earth by Odin? I thought Odin just took all of the enchantments off of Mjolnir along with Thor's godhood. He did put all of the enchantments on Mjolnir in the first place, after all.

But I guess it's pretty academic. There's plenty of other evidence to suggest, if not outright state, that Thor's powers are inherent to Thor and Mjolnir is just a very powerful tool/focusing object.

[Vartha]

thor controls wind currents and lightning without his hammer? since when?
Since BIRTH, it's been mentioned a few times in the comics and shown as well.
The words on Mjolnir say "WHOSOEVER HOLDS THIS HAMMER, IF HE BE WORTHY, SHALL POSSESS THE POWER OF THOR" not "shall possess the power of Mjolnir"

In Blood Oath, Thor wasn't allowed to use Mjolnir accept as a transportation device, and he kicked Hercs butt with lightning. The Warriors Three also mention in that mini that they had to wake Thor up from a nightmare when he was young because he was causing storms. That was before he had Mjolnir and Thor could control the weather.

In the Ragnarok arc, Thor's hammer was damaged by other URU hammers and he couldn't use Mjolnir and did most of his fighting with fists or his inner godpower.

Mjolnir is a tool. It focuses any of Thor's powers or energies, it's not Thor's power source.

[Vartha]

No one is worthy to lift Mjolnir but Thor. That loophole was thrown in by Walt Simonson. And Walt wasn't aware of the clarification that Don Blake was always Thor and the "worthiness" was Thor becoming humble via his service to the sick as Blake. We discussed this once. He's a nice guy BTW.

But as far as the ability of flight let's remember that there's no science to it, but that it's enchantment. I suppose the reason for Thor's powers (Flight, energy discharge, storm) being channeled through Mjolnir is that Mjplnir was his way of developing into Godhood and heir to the throne of Asgard, similar to Arthur and Excalibur.

So while Thor tossing and holding Mjolnir may be the physical act of how he flies, it's still a mystical process like Billy Batson saying "Shazam". The power isn't within Mjolnir, it comes from Thor but is focused through Mjolnir. We know this because when Odin removed Thor's Godhood Mjolnir simply became a an object. Anyone could lift it and it couldn't so anything magical.

Well BEFORE Walt Cap did lift Mjolnir.
We've talked about this, Supes wouldn't be worthy to lift Mjolnir for the simple fact that Supes won't kill anyone, I'm not sure Shazam would either.
Both Beta Ray Bill and Cap were Soldiers, and were willing to kill, BOTH sacrificed themselves for the greater good, among many other similarities.

The Worthiness is more complicated than it's actually been mentioned in the books.

[Webhead2006]

quick question what are all of Thor's known and accepted powers in the comics? i was just wondering cause he is a marvel character i dont really know all that much on.

[TheCorpulent1]

"Known" = tons. "Accepted" differs from person to person, I suspect. I think the powers we can all indisputably agree on are:

- Extremely high-level super-strength and durability
- At least some measure of super-speed, although that varies a lot over the course of his series and various writers' interpretations
- Flight via Mjolnir
- Control of the weather, be it through Mjolnir or his own godly power
- The ability to deflect and/or absorb energy with Mjolnir
- The ability to fire lightning, mystical, and possibly other forms of energy from Mjolnir
- The ability to teleport through space and other dimensions with Mjolnir

[Dragon]

Are you talking about back in the #100s when Thor and other gods were stripped of their godhood and left on Earth by Odin? I thought Odin just took all of the enchantments off of Mjolnir along with Thor's godhood. He did put all of the enchantments on Mjolnir in the first place, after all.

But I guess it's pretty academic. There's plenty of other evidence to suggest, if not outright state, that Thor's powers are inherent to Thor and Mjolnir is just a very powerful tool/focusing object.

Yeah, that's the storyline I'm referring to #145-151. My point is that Odin removing those powers (accept for his natural superhuman strength) reflect that the powers channelled through Mjolnir come from Thor. Otherwise, Odin could have simply taken Mjolnir away. And Odin in removing the powers mentions for example that he's taking away Thor's power of flight. So again, It's Thor that's the source.

[Dragon]

Well BEFORE Walt Cap did lift Mjolnir.
We've talked about this, Supes wouldn't be worthy to lift Mjolnir for the simple fact that Supes won't kill anyone, I'm not sure Shazam would either.
Both Beta Ray Bill and Cap were Soldiers, and were willing to kill, BOTH sacrificed themselves for the greater good, among many other similarities.

The Worthiness is more complicated than it's actually been mentioned in the books.

You may be able to correct me on this- but wasn't Cap in "The Captain" guise when he lifted Mjolnir? If so, this was definitely after Walt had Beta Ray Bill lift the hammer.

[Vartha]

you know I think you're right on both counts there. It IS the Captain not CA and it was after Walt
I had almost the whole Thor run and flood destroyed all of my collection back in the 80's, I've never been able to replace them.

What really sucks about the Flood? I had EVERY single Silver Surfer appearance when volume two came out, including obscure cameos.
I had Captain America 26 from the 40's all kinds of old books. I miss the Thor books the most tho.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Bill lifted the hammer somewhere in the 330s, I think. Cap lifted it in #390.

Granted, as late as the mid-200s, they were still referring to Mjolnir as simply being "too heavy" for anyone other than Thor to lift. I'm not quite sure when writers started taking the "if he be worthy" part of the hammer's inscription literally; I probably haven't read that bit of Thor's older comics just yet.

[Dragon]

you know I think you're right on both counts there. It IS the Captain not CA and it was after Walt
I had almost the whole Thor run and flood destroyed all of my collection back in the 80's, I've never been able to replace them.

What really sucks about the Flood? I had EVERY single Silver Surfer appearance when volume two came out, including obscure cameos.
I had Captain America 26 from the 40's all kinds of old books. I miss the Thor books the most tho.

I feel your pain, man. About 10 years ago I had a huge (and valuable) chunk of my collection stolen while I was moving. Among lots of other stuff I lost Spidey #1, Avengers #1, DD #1.. Still hurts..

[Webhead2006]

thanks corp for the list of his powers.

[Vartha]

Yeah, Bill lifted the hammer somewhere in the 330s, I think. Cap lifted it in #390.

Granted, as late as the mid-200s, they were still referring to Mjolnir as simply being "too heavy" for anyone other than Thor to lift. I'm not quite sure when writers started taking the "if he be worthy" part of the hammer's inscription literally; I probably haven't read that bit of Thor's older comics just yet.

I don't ever recall Mjolnir being too heavy accept for in Tales of Asgard and even THEN Thor had to do quests to become worthy and strong enough to lift Mjolnir. I can see where the too heavy idea would apply to the Gods since they ARE GODS, but I think it's another story to us lowly Mortals.

[Vartha]

I feel your pain, man. About 10 years ago I had a huge (and valuable) chunk of my collection stolen while I was moving. Among lots of other stuff I lost Spidey #1, Avengers #1, DD #1.. Still hurts..

I really wish I had them insured.:doh:

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't ever recall Mjolnir being too heavy accept for in Tales of Asgard and even THEN Thor had to do quests to become worthy and strong enough to lift Mjolnir. I can see where the too heavy idea would apply to the Gods since they ARE GODS, but I think it's another story to us lowly Mortals.
Well, plenty of people lifted it in Journey into Mystery and early Thor without any mention whatsoever about a worthiness qualification. Hell, the Absorbing Man and Ulik lifted it back then:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/Thor/holdmjolnir3.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/Thor/holdmjolnir1.jpg

But the worthiness enchantment came along later and became the permanent rule, so those earlier instances were left in obscurity to be forgotten.

[Vartha]

Well Absorbing man could absorb Mjolnir's qualities basically making him Mjolnir too which is why in Blood Oath Thor pulled Mjolnir back from hitting Creel.
Ulik is technically of Asgard's world and he's supposed to be the Strongest Troll both can be explained. I still think when it comes down to any Mortal they have to have the same qualities as Thor in order to lift Mjolnir because it insures the proper useof Mjolnir.

[TheCorpulent1]

Dude, in no way, shape, or form would Ulik ever be worthy of holding Mjolnir. Creel I can buy as maybe absorbing Mjolnir's power and fooling the enchantment into thinking he's part of Mjolnir or something like that, but Ulik? No way. Other Asgardians have failed to lift Mjolnir, too.

[Vartha]

Dude, in no way, shape, or form would Ulik ever be worthy of holding Mjolnir. Creel I can buy as maybe absorbing Mjolnir's power and fooling the enchantment into thinking he's part of Mjolnir or something like that, but Ulik? No way. Other Asgardians have failed to lift Mjolnir, too.

I'm saying Ulik being Asgardian would make him worthy and strong enough to lift Mjolnir.
Remember it was to heavy for any AVERAGE Asgardian to lift. Ulik is the Troll version of Thor, the strongest of his race. I'm just saying it's possible the enchantment was aimed at Mortals not beings of the Asgardian worlds.
I'm looking at ways to explain those stories. It makes complete sense to me.


In MYTH, there's no Worthiness enchantment at all. A FROSTGIANT walked off with Mjolnir while Thor slept.

[Captain Marvel]

A simpler explanation is that they were simply retconned after the fact. I doubt we'll ever see Ulik lift Mjolnir again, after all. Whatever the case, it certainly isn't a matter of strength. Captain America, who's just a peak human, can lift it while the Juggernaut can't.

quick question what are all of Thor's known and accepted powers in the comics? i was just wondering cause he is a marvel character i dont really know all that much on.

I suggest checking out the Marvel Comics Database...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Main_Page

...when you're curious about a character.

[Kurosawa]

A simpler explanation is that they were simply retconned after the fact. I doubt we'll ever see Ulik lift Mjolnir again, after all. Whatever the case, it certainly isn't a matter of strength. Captain America, who's just a peak human, can lift it while the Juggernaut can't.



I suggest checking out the Marvel Comics Database...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Main_Page

...when you're curious about a character.

And from that site:

He can use the winds to hover and has shown the ability to fly without the aid of Mjolnir.

[Aeltri]

If that were true then how come he nearly plummeted to his death during Simonson's run? IIRC he had to call Mjolnir to his hand in order to fly out of the lava pit. He can command the weather to some extent but he isn't exactly like Storm...

[Dragon]

I'm saying Ulik being Asgardian would make him worthy and strong enough to lift Mjolnir.
Remember it was to heavy for any AVERAGE Asgardian to lift. Ulik is the Troll version of Thor, the strongest of his race. I'm just saying it's possible the enchantment was aimed at Mortals not beings of the Asgardian worlds.
I'm looking at ways to explain those stories. It makes complete sense to me.


In MYTH, there's no Worthiness enchantment at all. A FROSTGIANT walked off with Mjolnir while Thor slept.

The whole worthiness thing is supposed to be about personal morality, not being Asgardian or following any warrior's code. In fact, Thor was long presented as being opposed to killing as well.

While I'll have to re-read the issue in question (Thor #139) I think Ulik being able to lift the hammer was because of a spell on the Hammer created by the being called Orikal, whose power rivaled Odin's. It was also because they were in the Troll realm, where Uru metal originated. That was how the hammer was captured and duplicated.

As for Creel, he only held the hammer because of his assuming the properties of the Uru metal, and in that scene can only hold it for a few seconds before it returned to Thor. Creel lost the power immediately.

The actual weight of Mjolnir ceased to be an issue around the time of Thor's first throwdown with the Hulk. Obviously The Hulk could match Thor's pure brute force level. So that was when they explained that it was Odin's enchantment (which Thor had him remove during the fight) that kept the Hulk from lifting it. The Hulk does lift it during the fight once the enchantment is removed.

[Kurosawa]

If that were true then how come he nearly plummeted to his death during Simonson's run? IIRC he had to call Mjolnir to his hand in order to fly out of the lava pit. He can command the weather to some extent but he isn't exactly like Storm...

As great as Simonson's run was, I always felt he had Thor somewhat underpowered at times.

[Deadpool876]

If Thor fell from way way up the sky, he wouldn't die, right? right?! What was that? He would?! But he's a god for goodness sake! lol

[The Ace of Knaves]

No he wouldn't die, but it'd still hurt him.

[Vartha]

The whole worthiness thing is supposed to be about personal morality, not being Asgardian or following any warrior's code. In fact, Thor was long presented as being opposed to killing as well.

While I'll have to re-read the issue in question (Thor #139) I think Ulik being able to lift the hammer was because of a spell on the Hammer created by the being called Orikal, whose power rivaled Odin's. It was also because they were in the Troll realm, where Uru metal originated. That was how the hammer was captured and duplicated.

As for Creel, he only held the hammer because of his assuming the properties of the Uru metal, and in that scene can only hold it for a few seconds before it returned to Thor. Creel lost the power immediately.

The actual weight of Mjolnir ceased to be an issue around the time of Thor's first throwdown with the Hulk. Obviously The Hulk could match Thor's pure brute force level. So that was when they explained that it was Odin's enchantment (which Thor had him remove during the fight) that kept the Hulk from lifting it. The Hulk does lift it during the fight once the enchantment is removed.
Thor HAS killed tho and would be willing to do so if it were to save the greater good. I'm not saying he'd go out and kill just to do so.
If you go back and read the Tales of Asgard the basic idea back THEN was Thor had TRIALS so to speak, that made him Stronger until he finally was strong both physically and mentally enough to lift Mjolnir.

But like I've said I have none of the older books to refer to anymore. I was missing 83-86 and had a HUGE run up to the 200's......MAN I miss those books.

[Wolfman]

C'mon it's gotta be the Ultimates way. The lightning looks better then giant viking flying thru the air. Kinda like in the end of Ang Lee's Hulk, when he's fighting his dad, whose absorbed some electricity.

[The Ace of Knaves]

Ultimate Thor looks like a robot, not a regal, God Prince.

[TheCorpulent1]

A simpler explanation is that they were simply retconned after the fact. I doubt we'll ever see Ulik lift Mjolnir again, after all. Whatever the case, it certainly isn't a matter of strength. Captain America, who's just a peak human, can lift it while the Juggernaut can't.



I suggest checking out the Marvel Comics Database...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Main_Page

...when you're curious about a character.
That's what I figure as well. Thor's powers hadn't really been set in stone until way into the Lee/Kirby run, and even after that he either developed new powers on the spot or seemingly lost or forgot powers he'd had before. The long and short of it is just that Thor is one of the most highly inconsistent characters in comics.

A good example would be to look at Thor in Jurgens' volume 2 run and then look at Busiek's portrayal in Avengers from the exact same time. Thor appears much more limited in Avengers because he needs to be scaled back to work within the team setting and because Busiek is pretty notorious for underpowering Thor, based on the comics I've read.
If that were true then how come he nearly plummeted to his death during Simonson's run? IIRC he had to call Mjolnir to his hand in order to fly out of the lava pit. He can command the weather to some extent but he isn't exactly like Storm...
In other appearances, his weather command has allowed him to control even things that aren't really weather, like cosmic storms, and it has on at least one occasion flat-out trumped another weather god's control of the weather.

If you really wanted to arbitrarily assign an explanation to it, I guess you could say that since Thor's body is so dense, the amount of wind it'd take to keep him aloft would be disaster-level and harm the surrounding area. But basically it just goes back to what Captain Marvel said: Thor's powers are retconned and changed by practically every writer who comes onboard.

[Dragon]

Thor HAS killed tho and would be willing to do so if it were to save the greater good. I'm not saying he'd go out and kill just to do so.
If you go back and read the Tales of Asgard the basic idea back THEN was Thor had TRIALS so to speak, that made him Stronger until he finally was strong both physically and mentally enough to lift Mjolnir.

But like I've said I have none of the older books to refer to anymore. I was missing 83-86 and had a HUGE run up to the 200's......MAN I miss those books.

I didn't mean to suggest that Thor wouldn't kill. In issue #193 he killed the Storm Giants guarding the castle after Loki had usurped the Odin Ring.

What I meant was that the worthiness thing isn't about the willingness to kill- but that one would not misuse Thor's power. Ulik certainly would. In Tales of Asgard, it was presented that after every act of valor Thor could lift the hammer higher from the floor.

As a side note, it was funny to me when in Thor#432 that after Thor apparently killed Looki after Loki'd mortally wounded Masterson's girlfriend that Odin was so infuriated that he punished Thor for it.

[Dragon]

But basically it just goes back to what Captain Marvel said: Thor's powers are retconned and changed by practically every writer who comes onboard.

It was pretty clear that Stan saw Thor as Marvel's big gun. Their equivalent to Superman. In Silver Surfer #4, the Surfer admitted that he couldn't beat Thor and around that same time Thor's energy discharge from Mjolnir sent Galactus running for his life (Albeit with an assist from some Aliens he was defending). That's why it so annoyed me to see Thor beaten so easily by Superman in the JLA/Avengers mini.

[Danalys]

i figure that if he can't fly without his hammer he could give himself a boost up before throwing it so that he'll go up and fall back to where he was by which time it would return.

he could be boosting to a different place and catch the hammer aswell.

[TheCorpulent1]

It was pretty clear that Stan saw Thor as Marvel's big gun. Their equivalent to Superman. In Silver Surfer #4, the Surfer admitted that he couldn't beat Thor and around that same time Thor's energy discharge from Mjolnir sent Galactus running for his life (Albeit with an assist from some Aliens he was defending). That's why it so annoyed me to see Thor beaten so easily by Superman in the JLA/Avengers mini.
Yeah, but things have changed a lot since Lee's time. He also intended Thor to be at least as powerful as the Hulk, if not more so, and wrote Journey into Mystery #112 to reflect that, but later fights between the two have almost always veered in the Hulk's favor.

[Wolfman]

Ultimate Thor looks like a robot, not a regal, God Prince.

I'm not saying I want the ultimate Thor on this movie, just the way he moves around - as a lightning streak. Like this:
http://k41.pbase.com/o4/64/508564/1/45321946.CRW_6244_RJacopy.jpg

[Dragon]

Yeah, but things have changed a lot since Lee's time. He also intended Thor to be at least as powerful as the Hulk, if not more so, and wrote Journey into Mystery #112 to reflect that, but later fights between the two have almost always veered in the Hulk's favor.

I don't recall a Thor/Hulk fight that didn't end in a stalemate for one reason or another. In fact, what always pissed me off with the Hulk was that he's like the one hero that gets beaten. Over the years, Ironman, the FF, Submariner, even Spidey has been shown to actually beat him.

[TheCorpulent1]

When did Spider-Man ever beat the Hulk? :huh:

[The Ace of Knaves]

Huh? When was the last time Hulk lost a fight?

And he has never lost to Spidey has he?

The Hulk vs Thor fights are more often than not, Hulk winning.

[Weadazoid]

When did Spider-Man ever beat the Hulk? :huh:



He can jump around him, he can land punches on him, he can outsmart him.... but physically he will always where down.


Thor can match Hulk Physically, except for the anger and strength dealio...thats why Hulk wins so many fights.

[The Ace of Knaves]

No Hulk wins so many fights because the powers that be say so, same thing with Wolverine.

[TheCorpulent1]

He can jump around him, he can land punches on him, he can outsmart him.... but physically he will always where down.


Thor can match Hulk Physically, except for the anger and strength dealio...thats why Hulk wins so many fights.
By that same token, Thor can fly and fire blasts of energy that scare Galactus. They each have abilities the other doesn't, but for some reason, Thor's are usually forgotten in many of their fights.

[Weadazoid]

By that same token, Thor can fly and fire blasts of energy that scare Galactus. They each have abilities the other doesn't, but for some reason, Thor's are usually forgotten in many of their fights.




That's because Thor is very rarely outmatched physically and it pisses him off so he is willing to throwdown with the hulk based on pure brute force.


Given.... When Thor had to Battle Sutur and was given Odin streangth...face it that version of Thor puts a beat down on Hulk, and Sutur and Yimir would as well.

[Dragon]

There was an issue of Spidey Unlimited (?) from a few years back . The story had gamblers betting on Spidey fights. Spidey is fighting the Hulk- the Hulk tosses a truck at Spidey. Spidey spins a web that catches the truck and sends it back at the Hulk. The Hulk is knocked out.

But back to Hulk vs. Thor The fights I recall post JIM #112 are Sub-Mariner #35 from 1971, Defenders #10, Hulk #255. All of those endes in stalemates. I know Thor fought the Grey Hulk in his own title in the late 80's but never read that one. I know there have been other battles in special edition comics and so forth, but I'm not clear on how those fights ended.

[Captain Marvel]

When did Spider-Man ever beat the Hulk? :huh:

Only instance I can remember is during the period when Spider-Man had the Captain Universe powers. Fun time, that was. :D We had the grey Hulk at the time, who turned into the Hulk at night. He and Spider-Man got into it, and Spider-Man threw him into orbit. The Hulk then realized he was about to die, because the sun was coming back, and he was about to be turned back into Bruce Banner while in space. Fortunately for him, Spider-Man flew up into orbit, grabbed him, and carried him back to Earth.

Oh yeah, and while not a fight, there was a great issue years back which gave us Spider-Hulk! It was fantastic. :)

[Vartha]

I didn't mean to suggest that Thor wouldn't kill. In issue #193 he killed the Storm Giants guarding the castle after Loki had usurped the Odin Ring.

What I meant was that the worthiness thing isn't about the willingness to kill- but that one would not misuse Thor's power. Ulik certainly would. In Tales of Asgard, it was presented that after every act of valor Thor could lift the hammer higher from the floor.

As a side note, it was funny to me when in Thor#432 that after Thor apparently killed Looki after Loki'd mortally wounded Masterson's girlfriend that Odin was so infuriated that he punished Thor for it.

I'm ALMOST positive that the worthiness enchantment came along when Thor was banished and not before, but that still wouldn't explain a way for Ulik to lift Mjolnir in THAT panel and issue would it? lol :doh:

[Dragon]

Only instance I can remember is during the period when Spider-Man had the Captain Universe powers. Fun time, that was. :D We had the grey Hulk at the time, who turned into the Hulk at night. He and Spider-Man got into it, and Spider-Man threw him into orbit. The Hulk then realized he was about to die, because the sun was coming back, and he was about to be turned back into Bruce Banner while in space. Fortunately for him, Spider-Man flew up into orbit, grabbed him, and carried him back to Earth.

Oh yeah, and while not a fight, there was a great issue years back which gave us Spider-Hulk! It was fantastic. :)

I mentioned in my previous post where it happened. It was an issue of Spidey Unlimited from a few years back, and Spider-Man was in normal mode.

[TheCorpulent1]

There was an issue of Spidey Unlimited (?) from a few years back . The story had gamblers betting on Spidey fights. Spidey is fighting the Hulk- the Hulk tosses a truck at Spidey. Spidey spins a web that catches the truck and sends it back at the Hulk. The Hulk is knocked out.

But back to Hulk vs. Thor The fights I recall post JIM #112 are Sub-Mariner #35 from 1971, Defenders #10, Hulk #255. All of those endes in stalemates. I know Thor fought the Grey Hulk in his own title in the late 80's but never read that one. I know there have been other battles in special edition comics and so forth, but I'm not clear on how those fights ended.
More modern fights have seemed to place the Hulk firmly in the lead for most of the battle, even if they technically ended inconclusively. The one that springs to mind first is The Incredible Hulk #440, where Thor and the Hulk fight for hours and then the Hulk just casually tosses Thor away when he spots a nuclear missile on its way. There's also The Incredible Hulk 2001 Annual, where Thor and the Hulk fight numerous times and the Hulk knocks Thor out twice while Thor knocks the Hulk out once. Ultimately, Thor creates a huge storm that floods a valley and the Hulk tosses some people on a rock into the water, forcing Thor to save them while he leaps away. In Thor's own comic, #385, Thor fights the Hulk without Mjolnir and that battle ends with the Hulk leaping away in perfect health while Thor, although still willing to keep fighting, is bruised and battered.

There are others, but those are the ones I remember right now. It seems like there was a shift somewhere around the '80s where Thor was treated as less and less of a powerhouse while the Hulk remained basically the strong dude in the Marvel universe, until we arrive at the present where we have stuff like the Hulk vs. Thor movie, where the Hulk literally pummels Thor nonstop and Thor can barely even breathe, let alone fight back. Doesn't count for canon, obviously, but it's still annoying to see.

[Dragon]

I'm ALMOST positive that the worthiness enchantment came along when Thor was banished and not before, but that still wouldn't explain a way for Ulik to lift Mjolnir in THAT panel and issue would it? lol :doh:

Like I said in an earlier post, Ulik is lifting the hammer because of a spell by a being called Orikal- not to mention he was in the Troll realm, where Uru metal originated, and Mjolnir was forged.


As for the worthiness thing- it was only really meant to be a message for Don Blake, essentially lifting his/Thor's penance. It wasn't really meant to be a general statement. Afterall, Odin led Don Blake back to the hammer. If it were available to any person worthy, then any such person could've found it. Again, Simonson was the first to use this as a reason for someone else lifting the hammer, and he wasn't aware of the explanation that Blake had always been Thor.

[Dragon]

More modern fights have seemed to place the Hulk firmly in the lead for most of the battle, even if they technically ended inconclusively. The one that springs to mind first is The Incredible Hulk #440, where Thor and the Hulk fight for hours and then the Hulk just casually tosses Thor away when he spots a nuclear missile on its way. There's also The Incredible Hulk 2001 Annual, where Thor and the Hulk fight numerous times and the Hulk knocks Thor out twice while Thor knocks the Hulk out once. Ultimately, Thor creates a huge storm that floods a valley and the Hulk tosses some people on a rock into the water, forcing Thor to save them while he leaps away. In Thor's own comic, #385, Thor fights the Hulk without Mjolnir and that battle ends with the Hulk leaping away in perfect health while Thor, although still willing to keep fighting, is bruised and battered.

There are others, but those are the ones I remember right now. It seems like there was a shift somewhere around the '80s where Thor was treated as less and less of a powerhouse while the Hulk remained basically the strong dude in the Marvel universe, until we arrive at the present where we have stuff like the Hulk vs. Thor movie, where the Hulk literally pummels Thor nonstop and Thor can barely even breathe, let alone fight back. Doesn't count for canon, obviously, but it's still annoying to see.

Well, thanks for filling in those blanks. I hadn't read most of the stories you mentioned. What it reflects I guess is a shift in popularity. In the 80's and into the 90's the Hulk grew more popular (Really since te 70's) while Thor decreased. His title was cancelled around that time. afterall. Whereas in the 60's Thor was one of Marvel's top sellers, right behind FF and Spidey.

These superhero fights are often decided on populairty, most pathetically displayed in the Marvel vs. DC mini-series. Back in Hulk#181, Wolverine LITERALLY couldn't make a scratch on the Hulk's hide. But after his popularity rose, he could suddenly cut him. Again, this is why Thor lost to Superman, even though the two should be evenly matched. And since Superman is vulnerable to magic, Thor's blasts should total him.

The thing about Thor that the writers seem to forget is that his immortality means he can't tire and regenerates quickly from injury. I don't say he should be able to beat the Hulk who for Marvel is the highest example of pure brute force. In his way, he's nearly God-like in that respect. But Thor's power as well as his skill, honed over centuries would mean he could hold pretty much anyone off.

[Captain Marvel]

I mentioned in my previous post where it happened. It was an issue of Spidey Unlimited from a few years back, and Spider-Man was in normal mode.

Yeah, I read your post. Pretty funny, as it was essentially the Hulk knocking himself out. ;) Just thought I'd bring up another story where it happened, albeit under extreme exentuating circumstances (I.E. He had the Captain Universe powers).

[Dragon]

Yeah, I read your post. Pretty funny, as it was essentially the Hulk knocking himself out. ;) Just thought I'd bring up another story where it happened, albeit under extreme exentuating circumstances (I.E. He had the Captain Universe powers).

Nah, that was Spider-Man knocking him out. The truck hit the Hulk due to Spidey's speed, and ingenuity. The Hulk certainly hasn't won every battle by just pummeling his foes into submission. And Spider-Man often wins by making use of his enemies mistakes.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, thanks for filling in those blanks. I hadn't read most of the stories you mentioned. What it reflects I guess is a shift in popularity. In the 80's and into the 90's the Hulk grew more popular (Really since te 70's) while Thor decreased. His title was cancelled around that time. afterall. Whereas in the 60's Thor was one of Marvel's top sellers, right behind FF and Spidey.

These superhero fights are often decided on populairty, most pathetically displayed in the Marvel vs. DC mini-series. Back in Hulk#181, Wolverine LITERALLY couldn't make a scratch on the Hulk's hide. But after his popularity rose, he could suddenly cut him. Again, this is why Thor lost to Superman, even though the two should be evenly matched. And since Superman is vulnerable to magic, Thor's blasts should total him.

The thing about Thor that the writers seem to forget is that his immortality means he can't tire and regenerates quickly from injury. I don't say he should be able to beat the Hulk who for Marvel is the highest example of pure brute force. In his way, he's nearly God-like in that respect. But Thor's power as well as his skill, honed over centuries would mean he could hold pretty much anyone off.
Totally agree, how a character fares in a fight tends to hinge heavily on their relative popularity. It's just really disheartening to see as a Thor fan. But now that Thor's got a movie on the way and his comics are selling really well again, maybe we'll see his standing in the Marvel universe improve going forward.
Like I said in an earlier post, Ulik is lifting the hammer because of a spell by a being called Orikal- not to mention he was in the Troll realm, where Uru metal originated, and Mjolnir was forged.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. It wasn't specifically stated in the issue that Orikal was nullifying Mjolnir's enchantments, as far as I recall, but there was mention of Orikal's magic posing a threat to Asgard even in spite of Odin's own powers. So that at least implies that Orikal's power is a match for Odin's and we've seen other similarly powerful magic-users, like the Enchanters, simply nullify Odin's enchantments on Mjolnir with their own magic. That explanation works for me.

[Vartha]

Like I said in an earlier post, Ulik is lifting the hammer because of a spell by a being called Orikal- not to mention he was in the Troll realm, where Uru metal originated, and Mjolnir was forged.


As for the worthiness thing- it was only really meant to be a message for Don Blake, essentially lifting his/Thor's penance. It wasn't really meant to be a general statement. Afterall, Odin led Don Blake back to the hammer. If it were available to any person worthy, then any such person could've found it. Again, Simonson was the first to use this as a reason for someone else lifting the hammer, and he wasn't aware of the explanation that Blake had always been Thor.

Right I know all the stuff with Blake. I loved how the first draft of the movie script treats the whole worthiness enchantment. I hope they left that part of the script in during the rewrites. Odin basically had nothing to do with the basic enchantments or the worthiness he just provided the power that was needed to make Mjolnir.

[Nathan]

There are others, but those are the ones I remember right now. It seems like there was a shift somewhere around the '80s where Thor was treated as less and less of a powerhouse while the Hulk remained basically the strong dude in the Marvel universe, until we arrive at the present where we have stuff like the Hulk vs. Thor movie, where the Hulk literally pummels Thor nonstop and Thor can barely even breathe, let alone fight back. Doesn't count for canon, obviously, but it's still annoying to see.

Even worse was seeing Hulk pick up the hammer in the Avengers DTV. :csad:

[TheCorpulent1]

That one didn't bother me so much because it's based on the Ultimates. Ultimate Thor sucks anyway. Didn't he get owned by Colossus once? :doh:

[Nathan]

I think there was something about Colossus pummeling him and Iron Man for 10 minutes.

[TheCorpulent1]

And people wonder why I can't stand the Ultimate universe. :oldrazz:

[Nathan]

I have to correct myself. He was only kicking the crap out of Thor for 10 solid minutes.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8331/ultimatewar0417.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/i/ultimatewar0417.jpg/)

But he still owned Iron Man good separately.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ultimate Hawkeye has a nuclear arrow? Geez, it's worse than I thought. :csad:

[Vartha]

....wonder if Ulty Hawkeye has a microwave arrow for marshmallow chicks?

[spider-neil]

anyway, back to the original subject matter, how do you think the fx guys will handle thor's take off. the speed he will be moving will be pretty darn quick, I imagine it to be similar to being stationary and then grappling onto a moving plane imagine the force and speed of THAT. if a crane yanks hemsworth up will it look cheesy, will it look fake if its CG?

[anrrd_2]

i like the teleport thing he did in the opening sequence of the ultimate alliance game... that would be fine with me, and probably easier to make look cool than flying

[spider-neil]

i like the teleport thing he did in the opening sequence of the ultimate alliance game... that would be fine with me, and probably easier to make look cool than flying

teleport? are you serious? thor being pulled along by his hammer is a signature move, not having it is like having superman driving to the next crime scene.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, Thor teleports all the time, too...

But I would like to see him fly. I kind of don't care whether they do the hammer-throw method or just have Mjolnir levitate him, personally.

[Nathan]

Really, just have him fly with the aid of the hammer. The whole having to throw the hammer and using momentum to travel just complicates things too much. He could never have air battles because he'd start to fall once the momentum is gone. And we all know that Mjolnir can levitate on it's own, so why does he need to throw it in the first place?

I wouldn't even mind if he can fly on his own. Never made much sense that Storm could control the winds to fly, but a god who controls the weather isn't able to.

[spider-neil]

Really, just have him fly with the aid of the hammer. The whole having to throw the hammer and using momentum to travel just complicates things too much. He could never have air battles because he'd start to fall once the momentum is gone. And we all know that Mjolnir can levitate on it's own, so why does he need to throw it in the first place?

I wouldn't even mind if he can fly on his own. Never made much sense that Storm could control the winds to fly, but a god who controls the weather isn't able to.

the thing is the hammer pull is what separates thor from everyone else

batman - drives
superman - flies
hulk - jumps
spidey - web swings
xmen - jet
thor - hammer pull

I think the visual could look amazing if done correctly

[Webhead2006]

yea it would just be easier to say the hammer has the power to fly.

[TheCorpulent1]

the thing is the hammer pull is what separates thor from everyone else

batman - drives
superman - flies
hulk - jumps
spidey - web swings
xmen - jet
thor - hammer pull

I think the visual could look amazing if done correctly
The question is whether the effects guys will be able to do it correctly with the budget they've got.

[Wolfman]

the thing is the hammer pull is what separates thor from everyone else

batman - drives
superman - flies
hulk - jumps
spidey - web swings
xmen - jet
thor - hammer pull

I think the visual could look amazing if done correctly

Your point kinda won me over. I voted for teh pull. :D

[spider-neil]

The question is whether the effects guys will be able to do it correctly with the budget they've got.

they should attempt to use as little CG as possible. the first superman movie was in the 70's and is a HELL of a lot more convincing than routh flying around

[Nathan]

I think creating the effect of a person being pulled by an hammer through the sky, is just going to look awkward. Especially the take off. He'd get literally yanked off the ground, throwing his hammer. Just let Mjolnir give him the ability to fly. It looked great in the DTVs and the MUA cutscenes.

[Vartha]

Nah I say it wouldn't look any different than Supes flying.
Thor and Mjolnir are one, now granted this is from the 1st draft, but they explain that Thor and Mjolnir have to get used to each other. With Thor mentally controlling Mjolnir it may as well be flying.

[Aztec]

The very thought of Thor being pulled by his thrown hammer is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. I don't care if it's been canon for 40 years, I don't care if the creator of Thor himself came up with it, I don't care if Marvel supports it; it is THE STUPIDEST THING they could possibly put in this film.

[Dragon]

I think some folks are getting too caught up with the description and imagining something awkward. The hammer pulling Thor is merely the explanation. The action will essentially look like Superman flying. Mjolnir will simply be in front of Thor. But the take-off will be led by Thor whirling and hurling the hammer. Nothing awkward about it.

[spider-neil]

I think some folks are getting too caught up with the description and imagining something awkward. The hammer pulling Thor is merely the explanation. The action will essentially look like Superman flying. Mjolnir will simply be in front of Thor. But the take-off will be led by Thor whirling and hurling the hammer. Nothing awkward about it.


exactly, when thor is in flight he will essential be exactly like superman (but with less moveability) the ony thing that will be different will be the take off and landing. the take off will especially be hard to get right because he will be litterally yanked off the floor by the hammer, not a graceful take off at all. the landing will be a lot easier to achieve

[TheCorpulent1]

Only if you apply normal physics to it. Mjolnir's magic, ergo Thor doesn't necessarily have to look like he's getting yanked off the ground by the hammer if that looks too goofy.

[Nathan]

It's all magic based, so they definitely have a lot of wiggle room. But I still don't want the momentum of the throw to be what carries him through the air. Again, it's a magical hammer, the thing can levitate on it's own. I don't mind him getting pulled by it, but he should be able to increase/decrease the speed at will, same with directions. I don't see why he couldn't have a good amount of mobility.

I don't want him to be like the Hulk that jumps around and pretty much can't do anything until he lands.

[anrrd_2]

i think i've figured out an alternative that everyone will be pleased with...

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/deweese07/pa-wtreq6.jpg

YA BOI!

[marcvader]

Yeah but then how do you explain him having Caps trike?

[anrrd_2]

duh, the same reason Stark has his shield...because he got super drunk and all his friends jacked his stuff.


also, take notice of the spider-web rims... theres gonna be character nods ALL OVER this movie!

[spider-neil]

from the official marvel handbook


Thor can summon the elements of the storm (lightning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning); rain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain); wind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind)), and uses Mjolnir as a tool to focus this ability.


well, I did not know that. therefore he could throw the hammer and use wind currents to stay airbound (like storm from the xmen) until the hammer returned.

[Dragon]

I think Thor, like anyone is limited in the number of powers he can use at once, since each depends on concentration. So, if he makes a plan on using the wind currents to keep him aloft, then he will. But if suddenly in mid-flight he has to hurl Mjolnir and hadn't set the wind currents in motion, he'd fall.

[TheCorpulent1]

He could summon wind currents pretty quickly, though. He makes giant storms spring up from out of nowhere all the time. It's just that no writer has ever decided to have Thor think that way. His flight tends to be Mjolnir-based or nonexistent.

[spider-neil]

He could summon wind currents pretty quickly, though. He makes giant storms spring up from out of nowhere all the time. It's just that no writer has ever decided to have Thor think that way. His flight tends to be Mjolnir-based or nonexistent.


did you ever read marvel team up #70 where thor and spidey is fighting the living monolith and creates a hurrican that was less than half a mile wide? awesome display of power.

also in the fantastic four (byrne run) were the avengers and the ff are fighting galactus and thor drops to the bottom of the river and creates a hurrican UNDER the water pushing back the waves so iron man can rescue the submurged cars.

I always thought this came from the hammer.

[TheCorpulent1]

No, but I will have to check those out. I'm working on reading the actual Thor series right now. I want to ultimately read every Thor appearance ever, though. :up:

[Vartha]

did you ever read marvel team up #70 where thor and spidey is fighting the living monolith and creates a hurrican that was less than half a mile wide? awesome display of power.

also in the fantastic four (byrne run) were the avengers and the ff are fighting galactus and thor drops to the bottom of the river and creates a hurrican UNDER the water pushing back the waves so iron man can rescue the submurged cars.

I always thought this came from the hammer.
Again SN, Mjolnir AMPLIFIES Thor's own powers, it doesn't power Thor at all.
Thor can use Mjolnir in many different ways when it comes to his own Godforce and weather control.

[spider-neil]

Again SN, Mjolnir AMPLIFIES Thor's own powers, it doesn't power Thor at all.
Thor can use Mjolnir in many different ways when it comes to his own Godforce and weather control.

I know that know after reading the marvel handbook

[Vartha]

...we've said that oodles of times tho SN I could swear you saw that.



being 48 isn't what it's cracked up to be...sure you're more talented as you age, but, your memory begins to cheat you.

[Nathan]

I'd give him two methods of flight. Riding the wind currents without the air of Mjolnir, come on, he's freaking Thor. If Storm can do it, so can he. And the second one is of course with Mjolnir, allowing him high speed flight.

[The Ace of Knaves]

What about the wings on his helm? Could they be used for flight? Like if they flap really, really fast?

[Nathan]

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4769/icon252.gif (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/icon252.gif/)

[The Ace of Knaves]

:awesome: C'mon, you know it'd be awesome and visually stunning. No one would dare laugh at a man who flies via little wings attached to his head!

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd give him two methods of flight. Riding the wind currents without the air of Mjolnir, come on, he's freaking Thor. If Storm can do it, so can he. And the second one is of course with Mjolnir, allowing him high speed flight.
Not a bad idea. Wind currents for hovering, Mjolnir for movement. I like it. :up:

[spider-neil]

Not a bad idea. Wind currents for hovering, Mjolnir for movement. I like it. :up:


it's entirely possible in the movie thor purely moves from point A to point B without ever having air combat

[TheCorpulent1]

I hope not. In the comics, some giants are so huge that Thor kind of needs to fight them in the air. It'd be awesome to see that in the movie.

[Nathan]

He should be able to have air combat and also the needed mobility. Thor shouldn't be a sitting duck in the air just because he can only move in one direction after the hammer is thrown.

I repeat, magic hammer. He should be able to decrease/increase speed and also directions with his will.

[Raiden]

I think Thor should be able to fly onscreen, because the audience may think it's stupid to have the God of Thunder needing his hammer to do anything. Besides, after he throws Mjolnir and starts descending, it'd make him look rather weak. And helicoptering with Mjolnir...not sure if it won't look silly on the big screen. I guess we just have to wait and see.

Btw, if Wonder Woman is granted the power of flight in the comics, why not Thor? That doesn't make alot of sense.

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm not sure why Wonder Woman being able to fly would affect Thor. Stan Lee clearly wanted Thor and Mjolnir to be two halves of a whole, basically. Probably to set Thor apart from the Supermen and Wonder Women, who could physically do everything on their own just because their writers said they could.

[Raiden]

I'm just not convinced that relying on Mjolnir to fly wouldn't look a bit ridiculous onscreen (even though flight itself is not logical to begin with). But if they can make it work visually, I'm willing to have an open mind about this.

[anrrd_2]

not to be a broken record, but, i think we are overlooking the most obvious alternative
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/deweese07/pa-wtreq6.jpg

[irapogi]

not to be a broken record, but, i think we are overlooking the most obvious alternative
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w271/deweese07/pa-wtreq6.jpg

lmao, is that supposed to be cap's ? /:)

[Agent 194]

I always liked the idea of Thor being dragged along after his hammer. I guess it also was implied, or I perceived it to be, that he could change direction and such once he was airborne. Through some other godly means no doubt.

[Danalys]

i think of it like it can change it's momentum, and change direction sort of like a rocket, and when he spins it he's working on angular momentum principals to hover.

as for take off it should be faster than a jump but not so fast that we can't see what happens. i wouldn't have him have to let go of the hammer and grab the strap.

[Superhero 101]

Well how does he fly in the comics?

[afan]

Well how does he fly in the comics?

Southwest....they don't charge extra for his hammer:cwink:

[Canis Sapiens]

:hehe:

[Timstuff]

Southwest....they don't charge extra for his hammer:cwink:

Two free checked items is a bargain not even the god of thunder can resist!

[NoirMan82]

Two free checked items is a bargain not even the god of thunder can resist!

I think they just found their new slogan. :woot:

[NoirMan82]

"Aviary Wench! Be there no mead upon this lofty vessel? The Odinson requires it!":thor: