New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

[ck1777]

(For the record, Donner's Superman is my favorite movie of all time!)

I've noticed the people who want a new origin keep bringing up Batman Begins as an example of how a new Superman movie should be done. That's great and all, but Batman Begins didn't just show a never before seen origin, but it also did everything the OPPOSITE of Batman 89. Since Burton's Batman wasn't very accurate to the comics, it wasn't hard for Nolan to make an origin film that was accurate to the comics. But if you notice, the few things that Batman 89 got right (Joker falling in vat, Wayne's going to Movie theatre, traditional Batmobile etc.) are the things the new franchise has changed.

The problem with this is Donner's Superman was much closer to the comic than Burton's Batman. So if you wan't to make a new Superman origin, you have to do everything the opposite of Donner's. So this thread is to come up with ways to do the opposite of Donner's for a new origin. After seeing Star Trek again on BLU-RAY my idea for a reboot is definitley a Legion movie (see my other thread), but if Warner Brothers just wants a new Superman Origin here are some thoughts.

The obvious changes:
1)Lex - This is the easiest one to change. I personally only want to see CEO Lex if by the end of the movie he loses everything he has and is a wanted criminal.
2)New Villain - I rather have a Sci-fi villain (Braniac) and no Lex. Give Lex a vacation and save him for the sequel!
3)12 Years - In S:TM we see Clark at 18 years old one second and by the end of Brando's dialogue he's 30 year old Superman. In the new movie we should see what happens when Clark chooses to be Superman, the costume etc.
4)Pa Kent - Not dying
5)Younger Jor-el and Lara
6)Format of the movie - have flashbacks, or have a Tarentino like movie where all the scenes are out of order (I doubt the WB would want that).

Bigger changes:
1)Krypton's end - Not only has this one been done In S:TM, but it has been done the same in EVERY SINGLE VERSION of Superman (6 live action versions, and like a 1,000 cartoons) While I love Krypton blowing up, unfortunately today's generation would much rather see something a lot darker. Maybe someone is sent to kill Jor-el and his bloodline and Jor-el sends him to earth, not only to escape but to also become invulnerable under our yellow sun so when they do find him they can't kill him. (I'm not sure but wasn't JJ Abrams script something like that?)
2)Daily Planet - Another one that has been done pretty much the same in every incarnation of the character. I'd save the DP and it's cast for the sequel, and have Lana as the love interest for the first movie. Maybe the last scene in the movie could have Clark going to an interview with Perry White.
3)The Costume - This one I don't want to happen, but unfortunately it's definitely going to happen wether we like it or not. Let's just hope it's better than Nic Cage's costume (my choice would be Superman One million's costume with the classic symbol).

Again, it's much harder to do something fresh with Superman than it is with Batman. Even if you do the opposite of Donner's real estate Lex, you'll probably wind up with John Shea or Michael Rosenbaum's. Even If you have Lana as the love interest and don't have Lois and Clark, you'll have something similar to Smallville and the Superboy show. Even if you have Pa Kent alive, it'll be just like Lois and Clark, Superboy, Smallville.

Coming up with a fresh new take on Superman is much harder than Batman, James Bond, or Star Trek. When you think about it, all Nolan had to do was show Batman's origin (which had never been shown), and also do the opposite of Burton's Batman and Adam West's Batman (which wasn't very hard to do!). If anything Superman is much closer to Robin Hood, Dracula, and Three Musketeers which are all characters that have been re-done countless times.

So here it is:
I've stated what I would do with a new Superman Origin (at least the only one's I could think of right now). As much as I love Superman, If I was a movie exec I wouldn't pay $200 million to make something that's similar to
Donner's or any other version of Superman we've seen in the last 20 years (Superboy Lois and Clark, Smallville). And as much as I hate Burton's take on Superman, I can't blame the WB fo trying to come up with a new take on the character.

What are some ways we can have a completely fresh origin that doesn't show anything Donner's already did and at the same time try to be different from all the other versions of Superman, but also staying true to the character?

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Nothing new here, move along folks...


:)

[Mr. Earle]

(For the record, Donner's Superman is my favorite movie of all time!) I stopped reading right there.

Also why isnt this discussed in the origin thread? If every time someone had a proposal we had a new thread....

Also, destroying the canon because its been done before is flawed logic.

[Fresh Prince]

^ Agreed.

[SuperMike335!!]

http://ownedirl.com/misc/whats_going_on.jpg

[ck1777]

I stopped reading right there.

Also why isnt this discussed in the origin thread? If every time someone had a proposal we had a new thread....

Also, destroying the canon because its been done before is flawed logic.

Why did you stop reading after I said I loved S:TM?

I'm not saying this should be the new Superman, what I'm saying is if I was going to do what BATMAN BEGINS did (and do the opposite of everything Batman 89 did) these are some of the things I could think of.

This thread isn't about what should be done in the origin, it's about doing the opposite of what's been done like Nolan did with Batman. It's definitely not about destroying canon! I'ts about investing in a movie that's going to sell to modern audiences. You think it's a coincidence that for the last 15 years Warner Brothers has been trying to make a completely different take on Superman?

The point of this thread was to come up with things that have'nt been done before, but at the same time keep the characters true to the comics.

[Mr. Earle]

I didnt stop reading. Its a figure of speech. You said its your favourite movie. I mean... come on...
Anyway, apart from other things you suggest, in your origin Krypton isnt destroyed. That would create a whole lot of mess in the storylines.

[Webhead2006]

you brought up some good points, but there is still many ways how you can have krypton destruction, lex, the kents, and daily planet all keep stuff and be different then past takes.

[ck1777]

I didnt stop reading. Its a figure of speech. You said its your favourite movie. I mean... come on...
Anyway, apart from other things you suggest, in your origin Krypton isnt destroyed. That would create a whole lot of mess in the storylines.

Again, I don't understand why that's hard to believe since it's a great movie.

I'm not saying they shouldn't destroy Krypton, I'm just saying if I was going to do the opposite of Donner's krypton that would be one possibility. Most people just say base the origin on Birthright, or Man of Steel but that's not enough. Don't you guys think that DC has pitched those stories to the WB? They don't want them!

So again if WB came to you and said they want a new origin but it has to be the opposite of Donner's or any other version, what would you do?

[ck1777]

you brought up some good points, but there is still many ways how you can have krypton destruction, lex, the kents, and daily planet all keep stuff and be different then past takes.

You're absolutely right! I'm just stating the easiest ways I could think of. Donner's version is the most famous version of Superman, so I thought if I was going to do everything the opposite of S:TM that's some of the things that could be possible.

[Mr. Earle]

All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was? It doesnt need to be different, it just needs to show new things and be presented with a different narrative technique.

Some time ago i proposed they start the film with Clark's last days in Smallville. By saying goodbye to his parents, Lana and friends, he discusses his past, and we see flashbacks of it. By discussing with his parents we get to see how they found him, how they raised him and how he discovered his powers, by breaking up with Lana we get a flashback to their relationship and their school years, etc.
Then Clark moves to Metropolis and finds it hard to adjust to his new life and the more hostile urban environment. At this point he has his first missions as superman and a job at the Planet. Lois' taunts and his loneliness in the city trigger more flashbacks.
Having Brainiac as the first villain would not only give Lex time to slowly descend to evil, but by giving him a Kryptonian origin, we could get more flashbacks about Krypton's last days, Jor-El's efforts to save his son, and even explain why nobody else made it out of Krypton (Brainiac sabotaged every escape).

The movie would have family as its theme. Clark/Superman is the person he is because of the 4 wonderful people that were his parents. I'd focus on that and make a very sentimental origin.
The movie would end with Clark finding his feet in his new life as Superman, and a reporter.

I'd end the movie exactly the way this trailer ends but obviously with the new Jor-El's voice.
B1oNER7mgRA

The second movie's theme would be Superman's effect on the city, the world and of course Lex.

[ck1777]

All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was? It doesnt need to be different, it just needs to show new things and be presented with a different narrative technique.

Some time ago i proposed they start the film with Clark's last days in Smallville. By saying goodbye to his parents, Lana and friends, he discusses his past, and we see flashbacks of it. By discussing with his parents we get to see how they found him, how they raised him and how he discovered his powers, by breaking up with Lana we get a flashback to their relationship and their school years, etc.
Then Clark moves to Metropolis and finds it hard to adjust to his new life and the more hostile urban environment. At this point he has his first missions as superman and a job at the Planet. Lois' taunts and his loneliness in the city trigger more flashbacks.

The movie would have family as its theme. Clark/Superman is the person he is because of the 4 wonderful people that were his parents. I'd focus on that and make a very sentimental origin.
The movie would end with Clark finding his feet in his new life as Superman, and a reporter.

The second movie's theme would be Superman's effect on the city, the world and of course Lex.

I like that idea. I wouldn't mind if they kept krypton a mystery. I really enjoyed the firsf t 3 seasons of Smallville and that's one othe things I liked most about it.

[Mr. Earle]

Once he gets the Fortress, he and we will learn about Krypton. Besides, Smallville is a tv series (and a ****** one at that) that had to leave most things for later because they would run out of material after a few episodes.

PS: I edited my previous post adding a few more things and a video.

[ck1777]

Once he gets the Fortress, he and we will learn about Krypton. Besides, Smallville is a tv series (and a ****** one at that) that had to leave most things for later because they would run out of material after a few episodes.

PS: I edited my previous post adding a few more things and a video.


Well as much as I HATED seasons 4-8 the first 3 seasons, it still did a good job keeping Krypton a mystery. Even better, Geoff Johns Secret Origin is showing Clarks origin from his point of view and later on I'm sure krypton will be adressed.

[Mr. Earle]

I dont know if the Secret Origin is any good, but i know that most comic book fans consider Johns a pretty bad writer.

From wikipedia:
Post-Infinite Crisis continuity revisions to Superman's origin



Lana Lang is aware about Clark having special abilities almost as soon as they begin developing in his pre-teen years. She becomes Clark's only confidant outside his parents and the Legion of Super-Heroes, but is unaware he is an alien up until their teenage years (as with the Man of Steel mini-series).
In addition to Clark, the Kents themselves are able to access the holographic records contained in the rocket and understand them to learn about Clark's original planet.
Kryptonian materials' extreme durability in a yellow sun environment is restored.
Clark's costume is based on his mother's observations of typical Kryptonian children's clothing in holographic recordings contained in Jor-El's rocket and is motivated by Martha's desire that Clark should embrace his original planet's heritage as well as his adopted one. It is again fashioned by Martha Kent from blankets in the rocket, including the chest symbol which she observed is the crest of the House of El (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_El). Martha explain the suit is intended to be used by Clark when he engages his powers without damaging his regular clothes.
Clark starts wearing glasses, made from round pieces of Kryptonian transparent material, soon after his heat vision develops to contain unwanted firings caused by sexual arousal.
Clark's flying ability develops earlier in his life when he saves Lana from a tornado, although he initially has difficulty controlling it.
Martha Kent is revealed to have some German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American) lineage.
As previously revealed in the "Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_and_the_Legion_of_Super-Heroes)" storyarc in Action Comics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Comics), Clark took on the identity of Superboy as a teenager, but only in the future as a member of the Legion.
The recordings in the rocket establish Clark's future Kryptonian enemies from the beginning of his history: Brainiac; the Phantom Zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Zone) prisoners (General Zod, Ursa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursa_%28comics%29) and Non (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_%28comics%29)); and Doomsday.
Chloe Sullivan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Sullivan) is shown as a Smallville resident, as evident of the "Chloe S." written on Pete's cast.
The Legion of Super-Heroes now is inspired by the genuine Superman, although they operate without sanction by their times' authorities.
Krypto is again Clark's pet in his childhood years on Earth.

As i said... Johns is a lame writer.

[El Payaso]

I've noticed the people who want a new origin keep bringing up Batman Begins as an example of how a new Superman movie should be done. That's great and all, but Batman Begins didn't just show a never before seen origin, but it also did everything the OPPOSITE of Batman 89. Since Burton's Batman wasn't very accurate to the comics, it wasn't hard for Nolan to make an origin film that was accurate to the comics. But if you notice, the few things that Batman 89 got right (Joker falling in vat, Wayne's going to Movie theatre, traditional Batmobile etc.) are the things the new franchise has changed.

I think what made easy for Nolan to have a new vision on Batman's origin wasn't what Burton changed - because Nolan changed as many things as Burton did - but the fact that Burton never went to the details of it. At the beginning of B89 Batman is already there and we never see how did he get to become Batman. A detailed origin was still widely possible.

All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was?

Sure, I'm not against a new Superman origin movie... but the logic of "there are so many remakes, why not yet another one?" doesn't sound too good. Specially when the majority of those remakes suck.

[Fresh Prince]

Well really do we need a remake?....I mean if the movie is good then the GA will love it and it will get money....They can make the movie look different so people wqill know its nothing like Donner's movies...New theme music, new Metropolis look, characters act differently, especially Lex Luthor....Be like Star Trek movie, which someone said is not really a remake or reboot whatever....I thought it was though.

[ck1777]

I dont know if the Secret Origin is any good, but i know that most comic book fans consider Johns a pretty bad writer.

From wikipedia:
As i said... Johns is a lame writer.

Have you actually read a Geoff Johns comic? And also, I don't know where you came up with that theory, but Geoff Johns is one of the most critically acclaimed, and easily one of the most popular writers in comics today.

[ck1777]

I think what made easy for Nolan to have a new vision on Batman's origin wasn't what Burton changed - because Nolan changed as many things as Burton did - but the fact that Burton never went to the details of it. At the beginning of B89 Batman is already there and we never see how did he get to become Batman. A detailed origin was still widely possible.



Sure, I'm not against a new Superman origin movie... but the logic of "there are so many remakes, why not yet another one?" doesn't sound too good. Specially when the majority of those remakes suck.

I completely agree, most of these remakes are horrible!

[ck1777]

Again, the point of this thread is not about what to do for an origin, but what to do that's COMPLETELY the opposite from Donner's version.

[Mr. Earle]

Have you actually read a Geoff Johns comic? And also, I don't know where you came up with that theory, but Geoff Johns is one of the most critically acclaimed, and easily one of the most popular writers in comics today.Critically acclaimed maybe, but he is hated by most fans. There is a difference.
Sure, I'm not against a new Superman origin movie... but the logic of "there are so many remakes, why not yet another one?" doesn't sound too good. Specially when the majority of those remakes suck.That's why i said they should tell the origin in a different way, add new stuff in it, etc.
Besides, aside from the origin story, the rest of the plot will probably be different anyway. The first Donner movie had crook Lex as the villain right? No chance of seeing that again. Well really do we need a remake?....I mean if the movie is good then the GA will love it and it will get money....They can make the movie look different so people wqill know its nothing like Donner's movies...New theme music, new Metropolis look, characters act differently, especially Lex Luthor....Be like Star Trek movie, which someone said is not really a remake or reboot whatever....I thought it was though.I agree. They should redesign a few things, and especially Krypton and the Fortress if you ask me.

[Mr. Earle]

Again, the point of this thread is not about what to do for an origin, but what to do that's COMPLETELY the opposite from Donner's version.
I dont think people like the idea of going the opposite way just for the sake of it. And as El Payaso said, Nolan didnt go the opposite way than Burton. Burton never handled the origin.

[ck1777]

Critically acclaimed maybe, but he is hated by most fans. There is a difference. That's why i said they should tell the origin in a different way, add new stuff in it, etc.
Besides, aside from the origin story, the rest of the plot will probably be different anyway. The first Donner movie had crook Lex as the villain right? No chance of seeing that again. I agree. They should redesign a few things, and especially Krypton and the Fortress if you ask me.

Dude, I don't know who you've been talking to but Geoff johns is insanely popular. In fact he's definitley more popular with fans than he is with the critics.

[Fresh Prince]

Critically acclaimed maybe, but he is hated by most fans. There is a difference. That's why i said they should tell the origin in a different way, add new stuff in it, etc.
Besides, aside from the origin story, the rest of the plot will probably be different anyway. The first Donner movie had crook Lex as the villain right? No chance of seeing that again. I agree. They should redesign a few things, and especially Krypton and the Fortress if you ask me.


Exactly....Go the Star Trek route...And please no crook Lex.

[Fresh Prince]

I dont think people like the idea of going the opposite way just for the sake of it. And as El Payaso said, Nolan didnt go the opposite way than Burton. Burton never handled the origin.

Yes but they need to get away from Donnerverse though.

[Mr. Earle]

Dude, I don't know who you've been talking to but Geoff johns is insanely popular. In fact he's definitley more popular with fans than he is with the critics.I might be wrong...

Yes but they need to get away from Donnerverse though.The Donnerverse depicted the Superman of that time. There have been many changes to the character since then. Clark being more dynamic and not an idiot is one of them.
They only need to give us the current version of Superman and that would be enough.

[Fresh Prince]

I might be wrong...

The Donnerverse depicted the Superman of that time. There have been many changes to the character since then. Clark being more dynamic and not an idiot is one of them.
They only need to give us the current version of Superman and that would be enough.

Agreed 100%....Clark Kent is as smart as his alter ego and firm aswell....Lex Luthor is a billionaire, corrupt/corporate buisnessman....Lois Lane is well Lois Lane....But they can do all that without an remake/reboot or orgin story....People are smart to know the difference between Donnerverse and the current Superman(I hope).

[ck1777]

I dont think people like the idea of going the opposite way just for the sake of it. And as El Payaso said, Nolan didnt go the opposite way than Burton. Burton never handled the origin.

But Nolan did do the opposite of Burton on a lot of things. Like I posted before the movie theatre, Joker's origin, traditional Batmobile etc. There are more but those are the only ones I can think of right now(I haven't see the old Batman movies in a long time). Like I said the few things that Burton did that were accurate to the comic, are the few only things that Nolan did that were'nt accurate to the comic. He did it on purpose.

[ck1777]

[/B]

Agreed 100%....Clark Kent is as smart as his alter ego and firm aswell....Lex Luthor is a billionaire, corrupt/corporate buisnessman....Lois Lane is well Lois Lane....But they can do all that without an remake/reboot or orgin story....People are smart to know the difference between Donnerverse and the current Superman(I hope).


Lex isn't a corporate buisness man any more.

[Webhead2006]

actually he is from what it looking like.

[Webhead2006]

All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was? It doesnt need to be different, it just needs to show new things and be presented with a different narrative technique.

Some time ago i proposed they start the film with Clark's last days in Smallville. By saying goodbye to his parents, Lana and friends, he discusses his past, and we see flashbacks of it. By discussing with his parents we get to see how they found him, how they raised him and how he discovered his powers, by breaking up with Lana we get a flashback to their relationship and their school years, etc.
Then Clark moves to Metropolis and finds it hard to adjust to his new life and the more hostile urban environment. At this point he has his first missions as superman and a job at the Planet. Lois' taunts and his loneliness in the city trigger more flashbacks.
Having Brainiac as the first villain would not only give Lex time to slowly descend to evil, but by giving him a Kryptonian origin, we could get more flashbacks about Krypton's last days, Jor-El's efforts to save his son, and even explain why nobody else made it out of Krypton (Brainiac sabotaged every escape).

The movie would have family as its theme. Clark/Superman is the person he is because of the 4 wonderful people that were his parents. I'd focus on that and make a very sentimental origin.
The movie would end with Clark finding his feet in his new life as Superman, and a reporter.

I'd end the movie exactly the way this trailer ends but obviously with the new Jor-El's voice.
B1oNER7mgRA

The second movie's theme would be Superman's effect on the city, the world and of course Lex.
that would be a good way to go.

[El Payaso]

But Nolan did do the opposite of Burton on a lot of things. Like I posted before the movie theatre, Joker's origin, traditional Batmobile etc. There are more but those are the only ones I can think of right now(I haven't see the old Batman movies in a long time). Like I said the few things that Burton did that were accurate to the comic, are the few only things that Nolan did that were'nt accurate to the comic. He did it on purpose.

Well, it's not like Burton changed things 'accidentally' either. It was on purpose too.

And there was a big number of things Nolan changed and from significative importance. Like Ras being Ducard, Luicius Fox being Bruce's ally, Rachel Dawes, Joe Chill being killed after being released, Joe Chill being captured the very night of the Waynes' murder, Joker being a face-painter, Joker disfiguring Two-Face, etc etc.


The curious thing is that in B89, we have a detailed origin of the Joker and little of Batman's. In Nolan movies we have a detailed origin of Batman and little of Joker's.

[Fresh Prince]

Nolan had to reboot the Batman franchise as B&R destroyed the movie franchise....S3 and S4 were not good but not as bad as B&R....Also SR had mixed reaction and it was an okay movie....They do not have to reboot or remake just redesign.

[Mr. Earle]

the movie theatreEh... what?
traditional Batmobile And giving the batmobile a new design is a big change? Nolan designed it in a way that it would fit his realistic world.

They are different versions of the same character, but they are not opposite.that would be a good way to go.Thanks!

[ck1777]

Eh... what?
And giving the batmobile a new design is a big change? Nolan designed it in a way that it would fit his realistic world.

They are different versions of the same character, but they are not opposite.Thanks!

In every version of Batmans origins his parents are killed coming out of the movie theatre not an opera house.

[ck1777]

Well, it's not like Burton changed things 'accidentally' either. It was on purpose too.

And there was a big number of things Nolan changed and from significative importance. Like Ras being Ducard, Luicius Fox being Bruce's ally, Rachel Dawes, Joe Chill being killed after being released, Joe Chill being captured the very night of the Waynes' murder, Joker being a face-painter, Joker disfiguring Two-Face, etc etc.


The curious thing is that in B89, we have a detailed origin of the Joker and little of Batman's. In Nolan movies we have a detailed origin of Batman and little of Joker's.

Well every comic book movie has to simplify everything, and that's what Nolan did with you're examples. Batman trained with Ninjas in the comics, and since Ra's has a league of ninjas why not combine them. Luscious starts off just giving him some technology and then he realizes what he's using it for. They needed a female love interest so they created Rachel, even though Vicki vale is probably the most famous love interest besides Catwoman.

But yeah that's one of the better examples. Batman 89 is 70% Joker and his origin, meanwhile TDK didn't even mention his origin.

[ck1777]

I Just made up a little game. Wb has just asked you to make a new Superman origin but the catch is they want it to be the opposite of Donner's. So make a Superman movie that doesn't have any of these things listed. At the same time try to keep it as close to the comics as possible.

S:TM
1)Jor-el sends his son to Earth
2)Kal-el is found by the Kents
3)Raised by the Kents until Johnathan dies
4)Goes to the Arctic
5)Clark Meets Jor-el and learns about Krypton in new fortress
6)Get's job at Daily Planet
7)Superman makes his debut by rescuing a helicopter
8)Lois interviews Superman
9)Lex puts his scheme in motion
10)Superman meets Lex
11)Lex almost kills Superman
12)Superman saves everyone from missiles
13)Turns back time to save Lois
14)Superman smiles at the camera
15)Credits

My version (all of these were improvised on the spot)
1)No Krypton. keep it a mystery for the sequel
2)Found by Kents (I can't come up with anything different than that)
3)raised by Kents and Johnathan doesn't die
4)Goes around the world with Lana and her archaeologist father.
5)Find some sort of Alien technology
6)Technology awakens Brainac
7)Fights Braniac drone
8)Almost dies from the Braniac fight
9)Lana finds out about Clarks powers
10)Clark realizes he's the only one that can stop Braniac
11)Creates a prototype costume with a certain kryptonian symbol
12)Stops Braniac and saves the day
13)Finds a couple of kryptonian clues from Brainiacs tech
14)Tells lana he's made his decision and is moving to Metropolis
15)makes an appointment for a job interview
16)Credits

The only one that's the same as S:TM was kal being found by the Kents. If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head. Just so I could here all the people who always complain about Pa dying in almost every version. I'm joking.

[Excelsior.]

(For the record, Donner's Superman is my favorite movie of all time!)



Not the wisest of thread openers.

[Fresh Prince]

In every version of Batmans origins his parents are killed coming out of the movie theatre not an opera house.

Yeah I hated that.

[El Payaso]

Well every comic book movie has to simplify everything, and that's what Nolan did with you're examples. Batman trained with Ninjas in the comics, and since Ra's has a league of ninjas why not combine them. Luscious starts off just giving him some technology and then he realizes what he's using it for. They needed a female love interest so they created Rachel, even though Vicki vale is probably the most famous love interest besides Catwoman.

Well yes, simplify or change, you can find there the answer as to why they had Joker killing the Waynes. He's the biggest bat-foe and they have a story hating each other so why having a third character - Joe Chill - that will be there just to kill the Waynes and then dissapear. The way Burton did it, both characters created each other.

But yeah that's one of the better examples. Batman 89 is 70% Joker and his origin, meanwhile TDK didn't even mention his origin.

And both directors did that for the same reason: they wanted tokeep the mistery around the characters. Burton with Batman and Nolan with Joker.

[Mr. Earle]

In every version of Batmans origins his parents are killed coming out of the movie theatre not an opera house.They changed that because
1) Nolan felt it would be deconstructive if a movie character went to the movies.
2) Wanted bruce to get the vigilante idea himself and not copy Zorro.
Why is it such a big change to you anyway? Nolan only improved the basic concept by having Bruce figuring out his path and suit design himself.
They needed a female love interest so they created Rachel, even though Vicki vale is probably the most famous love interest besides Catwoman.Because they wanted a childhood friend and not any love interest. And yeah... Its Catwoman, Talia, Wonderwoman, and somewhere down the ladder you'll find Vicky Vale.

[Mr. Earle]

I Just made up a little game. Wb has just asked you to make a new Superman origin but the catch is they want it to be the opposite of Donner's. So make a Superman movie that doesn't have any of these things listed. At the same time try to keep it as close to the comics as possible.OK, you re starting to piss me off. What the **** is your obsession with going opposite to everything that Donner did? Did Donner sleep with your wife?
S:TM
1)Jor-el sends his son to Earth
2)Kal-el is found by the Kents
3)Raised by the Kents until Johnathan dies
4)Goes to the Arctic
5)Clark Meets Jor-el and learns about Krypton in new fortress
6)Get's job at Daily Planet
7)Superman makes his debut by rescuing a helicopter
8)Lois interviews Superman
9)Lex puts his scheme in motion
10)Superman meets Lex
11)Lex almost kills Superman
12)Superman saves everyone from missiles
13)Turns back time to save Lois
14)Superman smiles at the camera
15)CreditsI'll play along:
1) His son sends Kent to Krypton.
2) Jonathan is found by the Els.
3) Raised by the Els until Jor-El dies.
4) Goes to the Equator
5) Jonathan meets Jor-El and learns about Earth in new basement
6) Gets fired from the Yearly Moon
7) Lamewoman ends her career by destroying a car
8) Superman interviews Lois
9) Scheme puts his Lex in motion.
10) Superman and Lex dont meet
11) Lex saves Superman
12) Missiles kill everyone
13) Lets Lois dead. She was a whiny ***** anyway.
14) Superman gives the finger to the camera.
15) No credits.

My version (all of these were improvised on the spot)
1)No Krypton. keep it a mystery for the sequel
2)Found by Kents (I can't come up with anything different than that)
3)raised by Kents and Johnathan doesn't die
4)Goes around the world with Lana and her archaeologist father.
5)Find some sort of Alien technology
6)Technology awakens Brainac
7)Fights Braniac drone
8)Almost dies from the Braniac fight
9)Lana finds out about Clarks powers
10)Clark realizes he's the only one that can stop Braniac
11)Creates a prototype costume with a certain kryptonian symbol
12)Stops Braniac and saves the day
13)Finds a couple of kryptonian clues from Brainiacs tech
14)Tells lana he's made his decision and is moving to Metropolis
15)makes an appointment for a job interview
16)Credits

The only one that's the same as S:TM was kal being found by the Kents. If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head. Just so I could here all the people who always complain about Pa dying in almost every version. I'm joking. What is this... i dont even....
2)Found by Kents (I can't come up with anything different than that)I've you re so obsessed with going against Donner, how about this: He was found and raised by wolves! Or the Luthors. Or the Waynes. Or hookers (if the movie is directed by Frank Miller) :whatever:
If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head.Wow, Revenge of the Fallen is "Citizen Kane" compared to this!

[ck1777]

OK, you re starting to piss me off. What the **** is your obsession with going opposite to everything that Donner did? Did Donner sleep with your wife?
I'll play along:
1) His son sends Kent to Krypton.
2) Jonathan is found by the Els.
3) Raised by the Els until Jor-El dies.
4) Goes to the Equator
5) Jonathan meets Jor-El and learns about Earth in new basement
6) Gets fired from the Yearly Moon
7) Lamewoman ends her career by destroying a car
8) Superman interviews Lois
9) Scheme puts his Lex in motion.
10) Superman and Lex dont meet
11) Lex saves Superman
12) Missiles kill everyone
13) Lets Lois dead. She was a whiny ***** anyway.
14) Superman gives the finger to the camera.
15) No credits.
What is this... i dont even....
I've you re so obsessed with going against Donner, how about this: He was found and raised by wolves! Or the Luthors. Or the Waynes. Or hookers (if the movie is directed by Frank Miller) :whatever:Wow, Revenge of the Fallen is "Citizen Kane" compared to this!

Ok for the 1000 time, my favorite movie of all time is Donner's Superman.

If it was up to me, I would choose an adaptation of All-star Superman starring Jon Hamm. My 2nd choice would be a Legion movie like I said in the other thread.

I don't really want to see another version of Supermans origins. But if they are going to make a new origin I know it's going to be completely different than what we've seen before. So this thread was a way of coming up with different ideas for Supermans origin that was in no way like Donner's but at the same time close to to the comics.

I feel like an adult who has to tell a bunch of kids that there isn't
a Santa Clause! How much more proof do you want that the WB doesn't want a Classic Superman? Just look at the history over the last 15-20 years. Expect something a lot closer to Nic Cage's Superman, than anything from the comics.

[Mr. Earle]

How can it be different from Donner's but close to the comics origin? Donner's origin is the comics origin. If you dont want the origin, that's fine, but instead of changing it, they could simply show it during the opening credits, like the Incredible Hulk did.
How much more proof do you want that the WB doesn't want a Classic Superman?Provide said proof.

[ck1777]

How can be different from Donner's but close to the comics? Donner's origin is the comics origin. If you dont want the origin, that's fine, but instead of changing it, they could simply show it during the opening credits, like the Incredible Hulk did.
Provide said proof.

If you want proof go to google and type a)Superman and then B)development hell You'll find all the stuff that happened with Smith, Burton,McG, Ratner etc.

Also why do you think SR got made in the first place? All the things people hate about that movie are the same things that got the movie greenlit by WB. Darker colors, the kid, Lois's new boyfriend etc. that's the stuff they loved about the movie.

[Mr. Earle]

And since people hated all that, i think that DC took the message and my money is on a reboot that will feature the current comics version of Superman and be based on the current continuity and stories. That would be the wise thing to do, anyway.

[ck1777]

OK, you re starting to piss me off.

Oh no!

Quote:
If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head.

Wow, Revenge of the Fallen is "Citizen Kane" compared to this!


Wow it's funny how you conveniently took out the part where I said I was joking

[ck1777]

And since people hated all that, i think that DC took the message and my money is on a reboot that will feature the current comics version of Superman and be based on the current continuity and stories. That would be the wise thing to do, anyway.

That's right fans did hate all that, but what makes you think WB hated it. There has been a bunch of DC writers that have pitched to the WB after SR and they were all denied. So what makes you think they've learned there lesson?

[ck1777]

They changed that because
1) Nolan felt it would be deconstructive if a movie character went to the movies.
2) Wanted bruce to get the vigilante idea himself and not copy Zorro.
Why is it such a big change to you anyway? Nolan only improved the basic concept by having Bruce figuring out his path and suit design himself.
Because they wanted a childhood friend and not any love interest. And yeah... Its Catwoman, Talia, Wonderwoman, and somewhere down the ladder you'll find Vicky Vale.

What? I didn't say it was a big change, all I said is that it's one of the few things that Nolan did that was different from the comics. I didn't mind the change at all!

Catwoman and Talia were never in a million years going to be in Batman Begins because there is waaay to much back story for both of them. And Wonder Woman? I know I asked before if you've ever read a Geoff Johns comic before, but have you actually ever read any comic before? Because as far as I know WW and Batman Have only been linked in JL TAS and that wasn't even a love interest, that was more like intense flirting.

[Fresh Prince]

Why everybody compayng Citizens Kane to movies like TDK and TF2?

[Webhead2006]

ck you do have some interesting thoughts, and sure they are your opinions on things. Like i said in an earlier post. There is tons of ways were the story could go with using all the classic and well loved elements of the character. Its just the writer way on how they should do it and what elements to use and all that.

For me i want to see krypton, jorel, and its destruction, brainiac if in film tied to krypton would be nice. The kents finding and raising clark and they are both alive well into his superman career. Then you have to have the daily planet perry/lois/jimmy and all that. So we can develop the clark kent character and why he does what he does and becomes the being known as superman. Then lex i do want to see, doesnt need to be the head villain he could be secondary/the puppet master of things. Also he def has to be corp lex with maybe some hints towards his political aspirations and all that.

As for doing film with just lana, and no dp/lois and no lex. I dont know if that would go over well. As for all the failed attempts in the 90s and early 00s sure they had alot of crazy things. But really we dont know why wb in the end decided to go with the donnor like story again. But its clear now to them it isnt the way to go any more.

More likely then not superman is going to be a full restart next go. They will likely want things to be visually and story wise different from donnors film and all that. Plus it would be the best thing for the next superman. So the story/actors are not stuck trying to be one thing and not their own thing and all that.

[Mr. Earle]

What? I didn't say it was a big change, all I said is that it's one of the few things that Nolan did that was different from the comics. I didn't mind the change at all!
It seemed like you did. It was basically the same thing but you claimed that Nolan went the opposite direction of Burton, but that is not true in any level.
Catwoman and Talia were never in a million years going to be in Batman Begins because there is waaay to much back story for both of them. And Wonder Woman? I know I asked before if you've ever read a Geoff Johns comic before, but have you actually ever read any comic before? Because as far as I know WW and Batman Have only been linked in JL TAS and that wasn't even a love interest, that was more like intense flirting.I never said they should be in the origin story, i just said that they are more well known batgals than Vicky Vale.
As for Wonder Woman, they flirted in JL TAS but Dini has stated that they hinted at their relationship without showing it because 1) it was a kid's show and 2) they didnt want to enrage the fans.
Also, their romance was explored in a Justice League issue (and perhaps more that i dont know of) when WW uses a future viewing machine to explore the possible futures she could have with Bruce. She sees the following possible futures:
a) She adopts a bat motif and they fight crime in gotham. (Or was it their daughter and son instead of WW and Bats themselves? I could never tell)
b) They live in Themyscira. She stays with him even though he grows old and she doesnt. In the end he dies leaving her alone.
c) The Joker kills Batman, leaving her alone. She puts his head through a wall but that doesnt bring Bruce back.
In the end she decides that they cant be together because their big differences wont allow them to have a happy future, so they decide to just be friends. Thats as far as i can remember. So yeah... I read comics.

[Mr. Earle]

The thing is that so far in the movies we have only seen the pre-Infinite Crisis versions of Superman, Lex and Zod. Since then these characters, and especially the first two have changed a lot. We got some of the modern Lex in "Lois and Clark" and "Smallville", but never on the big screen. So basically Donner's movies have not only touched a limited part of the franchise, but they are outdated as well.

Simply by giving us the current versions of the characters and more villains would be a big enough change to revive the franchise. Make it fresh and exciting like Lois and Clark, deep in its stories like the Nolan movies, humorous like Ironman (Lois and Clark dynamic for that), filled with beautiful shots like S:Returns, exploring the beauty of the franchise without being limited by realism like Hellboy, etc.
Superman is the easiest Superhero to do. I mean, have a look at the tons of successful comics he's had or S:TAS and you'll see what makes him successful. Use those elements in the film.

[Webhead2006]

totally i want in the next series of movies to try and adapt more modern stuff to like corp/political lex, clark is the person and superman is just what he can do take, and then also throw in traits/characteristics of other eras too to make it a rounded out take on everything.

[Fresh Prince]

Batman and WW would of made a great couple though.

[markaudette]

I'm going to have to pull out a page from Doctor Who.

There are events that happen in history that are locked in time and cannot be touched, altered or changed. Superman's origin is exactly one of those things. I would like to believe that there are celestial forces in the DC universe that protect the events that led to Kal-El being sent to Earth.

No matter how many times someone tried to alter Earth's history, Pomeii will always be be destroyed. September 11th will always kill thousands. And Krypton will always be destroyed and the baby Kal-El will always land on Earth.

Superman's origin should never be changed.

Even though John Byrne retconned his history by having both Jonathan and Martha Kent survive into Clark's adulthood. And I'm sure Superman's story has been firther retconned. I stopped reading comic books a long time ago.

[SuperMike335!!]

Batman and WW would of made a great couple though.

Yeah, for a while anyway.

It would not last forever though.

Bruce is not the settling down type. He never has lasting relationships.

Wonder Woman also is immortal, and Bruce will one day grow old (well if he is lucky enough, given his life style).

[Fresh Prince]

Yeah I see what you mean.....So who can WW hook up with?....Martian Manhunter?....Hal Jordon?....Wally West?

[Webhead2006]

yea i think bruce and diana would be a good couple but things would never work due to his life choices and all that.

[Mr. Earle]

I read "Batman/Superman/WonderWoman: Trinity" some time ago and supposedly its an elseworlds story (or is it canon?) about the first time WonderWoman left her island and worked with Superman and Batman to stop Ras. At some point during the story, Diana meets up with the other two while Batman is beating the crap out of a thug to get information. She is appalled by his savagery while later she is irritated by Batman's rude manners. Later on, Superman explains to her that Bruce doesnt have a lasso of truth so he has to extract information through fear and pain, nor is he indestructible, so he has to dress like a bat to use fear to win battles before they even begin. So at that point WW starts to understand and admire the man who manages to stand between gods without having any powers but his will and brain.
So in that sense, WW developing a romance with Bruce instead of Superman in the JL made a lot more sense to me. Besides, Supes is with Lois.

[ck1777]

The thing is that so far in the movies we have only seen the pre-Infinite Crisis versions of Superman, Lex and Zod. Since then these characters, and especially the first two have changed a lot. We got some of the modern Lex in "Lois and Clark" and "Smallville", but never on the big screen. So basically Donner's movies have not only touched a limited part of the franchise, but they are outdated as well.

Simply by giving us the current versions of the characters and more villains would be a big enough change to revive the franchise. Make it fresh and exciting like Lois and Clark, deep in its stories like the Nolan movies, humorous like Ironman (Lois and Clark dynamic for that), filled with beautiful shots like S:Returns, exploring the beauty of the franchise without being limited by realism like Hellboy, etc.
Superman is the easiest Superhero to do. I mean, have a look at the tons of successful comics he's had or S:TAS and you'll see what makes him successful. Use those elements in the film.

Right. So what you're saying is you want the MODERN version of Superman that's based on the 80's and 90's version of Superman. If you're talking about POST-CRISIS Superman, you should know that by 2000 it was already starting to change from Byrne's version that was created in 1986. With Birthright in 2003, Post-Crisis Superman was completely taken out of continuity.

And on the subject on S:TAS, Timm and his crew did a great job on that show and gave us not only one of the best takes on Superman but easily the best take on Post-Crisis Superman yet! And yet S:TAS wasn't anywhere near as popular as B:TAS in termes of ratings and critical acclaim.

[ck1777]

I'm going to have to pull out a page from Doctor Who.

There are events that happen in history that are locked in time and cannot be touched, altered or changed. Superman's origin is exactly one of those things. I would like to believe that there are celestial forces in the DC universe that protect the events that led to Kal-El being sent to Earth.

No matter how many times someone tried to alter Earth's history, Pomeii will always be be destroyed. September 11th will always kill thousands. And Krypton will always be destroyed and the baby Kal-El will always land on Earth.

Superman's origin should never be changed.

Even though John Byrne retconned his history by having both Jonathan and Martha Kent survive into Clark's adulthood. And I'm sure Superman's story has been firther retconned. I stopped reading comic books a long time ago.

I completely agree with you! Sadly, it doesn't look like WB does. The truth is they've always wanted a different take on Superman and it doesn't look like that's going to stop any time soon. Between:

1)Burton/Cage
2)Ratner
3)MCG
4)Darker palette, kid.etc. in SR
5)Angry God and Superman has to be Darker comments after SR

The righting is on the wall. So the point of this thread was to come up with ways of making a classic take on the character, in a very different way.

Again I hope all of us get our way and they don't change anything, but sadly I don't see that happening. I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong by the WB!

[GreenKToo]

I haven't read all the responses so someone may have already said this.
IMO, there is no way they can make a Superman film without rehashing things we've seen before, be it updated or not. The ONLY thing they can do is get the right director, cast, and make sure it has plenty of epic action. If they can do that, I have no doubt they'll have a hit on their hands.

[solidsnake86]

What? I didn't say it was a big change, all I said is that it's one of the few things that Nolan did that was different from the comics. I didn't mind the change at all!

Catwoman and Talia were never in a million years going to be in Batman Begins because there is waaay to much back story for both of them. And Wonder Woman? I know I asked before if you've ever read a Geoff Johns comic before, but have you actually ever read any comic before? Because as far as I know WW and Batman Have only been linked in JL TAS and that wasn't even a love interest, that was more like intense flirting.

Its kind of ironic that you said this to Mr. Earle when he said the exact same thing to me about not reading any comics or watching any animated series. I had a good laugh with this one. I'm going to have to agree with GreenKToo in that were going to see some things rehased if they do the reboot, but frankly it can be done better then STM so I want to see it. And whoever said S3 and S4 are better then batman forever and B & R? Really... S3 and 4 were horrible movies.

[GreenKToo]

Superman III had its moments, but overall it was bad, like really bad. I remember seeing it in the theater and being sooo disappointed that they made it a comedy.

Superman IV was horrible, like the Punisher with Dolph Lundgren horrible.

[Mr. Earle]

Right. So what you're saying is you want the MODERN version of Superman that's based on the 80's and 90's version of Superman. If you're talking about POST-CRISIS Superman, you should know that by 2000 it was already starting to change from Byrne's version that was created in 1986. With Birthright in 2003, Post-Crisis Superman was completely taken out of continuity.

And on the subject on S:TAS, Timm and his crew did a great job on that show and gave us not only one of the best takes on Superman but easily the best take on Post-Crisis Superman yet! And yet S:TAS wasn't anywhere near as popular as B:TAS in termes of ratings and critical acclaim.Just like i said in the "Legion Origin" thread, you cant judge the success of a live action movie because 12 year old kids preferred BTAS to STAS. Besides, STAS was still very successful.

[ck1777]

Its kind of ironic that you said this to Mr. Earle when he said the exact same thing to me about not reading any comics or watching any animated series. I had a good laugh with this one. I'm going to have to agree with GreenKToo in that were going to see some things rehased if they do the reboot, but frankly it can be done better then STM so I want to see it. And whoever said S3 and S4 are better then batman forever and B & R? Really... S3 and 4 were horrible movies.

Huh? I don't know if you're talking to me but who brought up the batman movies or Superman 3/4?

[Steyin]

I honestly feel that one of the better solutions would be simply to follow the animated series with current comic elements mixed in. Personally I don't need to see his high school years as much as we have in previous films or in SV, but I would settle for him practicing a couple of powers early on, training in the Fortress and a glimpse of the suit design with Martha. As for Krypton, I'd prefer we learn its history through a Brainiac plot, which could be expanded on in another film with the introduction of Supergirl.

When it all comes down to it, I don't think reshaping/retelling Superman,or whatever you want to call it, is a problem. I think the challenge is still grasping the GA's interest in what seems to be a tiring "seen it before" story to them. It just needs to be fine tweaked enough to garner more interest from the GA in my eyes, to get them over the hill of "another Superman movie?"; and I think what most of them would prefer is more action and clarification that this is the new/current film continuity and isn't related to anything previously.

[SuperMike335!!]

Yeah I see what you mean.....So who can WW hook up with?....Martian Manhunter?....Hal Jordon?....Wally West?


I like Alex Ross' idea that eventually her and Superman get together, long after Lois passes away.

Depending on who is writing, Superman has been protrayed as also being ageless, or at least only aging a finite amount. He would look a little bit more mature, get some silver hair above his ears, but his physique would never look like an old man's would look like a man in his 40's who has stayed in very good shape.

So he could vastly outlive non-immortal romantic lives. As a result he and WW are a good fit, and not just to please Kevin Smith.

Not that there would be much of such a romance in modern times. Superman is not about to be leaving Lois for Diana.

You would really only see WW and SM together in Elseworlds or possible futures and such.

[Mr. Earle]

Superman ages at a slower rate. But ages nonetheless. In Kingdom Come he looked like he a man in his 50ies.
Diana on the other hand is immortal, as far as time is concerned. She is already 2 thousand years old.

[solidsnake86]

Huh? I don't know if you're talking to me but who brought up the batman movies or Superman 3/4?

No I wasn't talking to you about bringing those up. I was talking to you in regards to making that comment about mr. earle, I just found it funny. Someone made the comment about S3/4 a few pages back and I was just surprised nobody had anything to say about it considering superman 3 and 4 are some of the worst comic book movies ever. Some people just have blinders on when it comes to that series.

[Fresh Prince]

S3 and 4 were better then B&R....Sorry its the truth.

[ck1777]

I'm going to try to bring this thread back on topic. This is just another dumb example of what I mean by doing the opposite of Donner but here goes:

In S:TM we see when Clark gets the job at the Daily Planet where he's introduced to Lois who's been working there for a while. (In fact, almost every incarnation of Superman has it the same way)

In a new origin they could show Clark get the job at the DP then cut to 6 months later where lois has just been hired by Perry.

This is just a simple example of what I mean by doing the opposite of S:TM. The other obvious ones are Pa being alive, and of course lex being a CEO, but again this is just another dumb idea off the top of my head.

Warner Brothers wants a different take on Superman, so I figure change most of the minor things from all the origins so you can keep all the important ones.

If someone told me they hated how there house looked and wanted it to look completely different, before I get a sledgehammer and start tearing down walls I would look at different types and colors of paint for the exterior of the house. That would be the most simple solution. If they still don't like it and want something MAJOR changed then I would start changing everything in sight.

That's what I'm saying to do with Superman. Before WB starts doing MAJOR changes to the origin so it's not like S:TM, just change everything in the most simple ways possible. Saying they should do movie based on Birthright, MOS, STAS, isn't enough. They've all been pitched already. Sadly, they don't want them.

[Mr. Earle]

Keeping Pa Kent alive, more dynamic Clark and CEO Lex are changes that i'd like to see. I think that especially the last two make a big enough difference for the new franchise to be different enough from the Donner movies.
Besides, have they touched Brainiac, Darkseid, Mongul, Metallo, Parasite, or other villains? There's another refreshing factor the new franchise can have.

Btw, I wouldnt have Lois hired after Kent because i like how she is more experienced and acclaimed than him when he gets there. That gives her the advantage and we get all the humourous moments of her teasing him, making him do chores, etc.

[Webhead2006]

Ck to be totally honest we have no clue what wb/dc comics want to do with any future superman projects. Even if there wasnt any of the legal stuff that is holding up some things. They havent decided on direction they want to go with. So we dont really know in the end what could possibly come down the road. Sure at times one thing was said but then things changed over time.

Now for me i personally do want to see both kents alive while he is superman. A corp lex with political aspirations. Clark is the real identity and superman is just what he does. Then yea i perferably would like to take more post crisis stuff on the characters of superman. But not make the film be strickly just based on one take of the characters. I said before take the best elements from all eras of comics golden age-modern and make it into a rounded out character.

[ck1777]

Ck to be totally honest we have no clue what wb/dc comics want to do with any future superman projects. Even if there wasnt any of the legal stuff that is holding up some things. They havent decided on direction they want to go with. So we dont really know in the end what could possibly come down the road. Sure at times one thing was said but then things changed over time.

Now for me i personally do want to see both kents alive while he is superman. A corp lex with political aspirations. Clark is the real identity and superman is just what he does. Then yea i perferably would like to take more post crisis stuff on the characters of superman. But not make the film be strickly just based on one take of the characters. I said before take the best elements from all eras of comics golden age-modern and make it into a rounded out character.

Taking different elements from different versions of the character is definitley the the ideal situation (I think we can all agree on this). But the problem is if they didn't want a more Post-Crisis Superman movie in the 90's (which would have been the perfect time) what makes people think there going to want it almost 20 years later in 2015? I mean it's not like WB doesn't know what Post-Crisis is. They've made Lois and Clark, STAS, and even elements of Smallville which is still on the air.

And the most important thing is not only have there been countless pitches from movie and DC writers before and after SR, but Paul Levitz who ran DC for the last decade also worked very closely with the film division. For those who don't know Paul he is one of DC's most respected writers of all time. Since Mr. Levitz knows more about Superman than 99% of the population, don't you think in one of those board meetings about the next Superman movie he would have showed them Birthright and MOS? And then when those two were rejected he would have pitched the exact same thing you said. Take from those two and also the Pre-Crisis stories and we can make a great movie that the fans and the GP would love. If there is one guy I would want in a meeting with movie execs about Superman it's Paul Levitz.

Warner Brothers has heard a lot of pitches and unfortunately they always tend to choose the more drastic ones.

[Mr. Earle]

Because instead of rebooting the franchise with a more modern version of Superman they decided to continue the successful Donnerverse which had nostalgia going for it. Now that they saw that the Donnerverse can no longer work, they will try something else.

[ck1777]

Because instead of rebooting the franchise with a more modern version of Superman they decided to continue the successful Donnerverse which had nostalgia going for it. Now that they saw that the Donnerverse can no longer work, they will try something else.

Bryan Singers version is the only one that had anything to do with S:TM and he got that job in 2004 (in the same week that MCG was fired). Everything before that had absolutely nothing to to with S:TM and neither have most of the pitches that have come after SR.

[Frodo]

Well I'm all for letting go of the Donnerverse and of Lex as the villan for part one. It's time to tell the Superman story in a fresh way. I still think the Batman Begins, Casino Royale and Star Trek models would work for a new Superman film.

They took these iconic characters and brought them back to their roots and away from the excesses that their francises had become. That's what Superman needs to do.

I think it could be done. It won't please everyone, but no film can .

[ck1777]

Well I'm all for letting go of the Donnerverse and of Lex as the villan for part one. It's time to tell the Superman story in a fresh way. I still think the Batman Begins, Casino Royale and Star Trek models would work for a new Superman film.

They took these iconic characters and brought them back to their roots and away from the excesses that their francises had become. That's what Superman needs to do.

I think it could be done. It won't please everyone, but no film can .

Well I agree with you for the most part, but the 3 franchises you named had it much easier. Batman never had an origin, neither did James Bond (and it didn't hurt that CR was the only Bond book that's never been adapted), and Star Trek never had an origin either (on top of that Gene Rodenberry supposedly always wanted to do an origin movie with Spock and Kirk at the Academy). That's why it's not as easy to do a new Superman origin like it was with the other franchises, but it doesn't mean it's impossible!

[solidsnake86]

Well I agree with you for the most part, but the 3 franchises you named had it much easier. Batman never had an origin, neither did James Bond (and it didn't hurt that CR was the only Bond book that's never been adapted), and Star Trek never had an origin either (on top of that Gene Rodenberry supposedly always wanted to do an origin movie with Spock and Kirk at the Academy). That's why it's not as easy to do a new Superman origin like it was with the other franchises, but it doesn't mean it's impossible!

Actually it is that easy, STM is over 30 years old, no one really cares about it anymore. Superman the animated series which people mention over and over itself is over 10 years old now. All of these different mediums that people keep on saying have shown the origin have a relatively small audience.

They just have to do a new origin and quit thinking about how hard it is because it really isnt. I could understand if superman the movie had all the elements with crappy special effects but the reality of the matter is they screwed up a lot of things (of no fault to itself). A lot has been established in comics that people would like to see in a new origin story.

[Mr. Earle]

Solidsnake i'd like to add that STAS hasnt had the audience that a movie would have. It was mostly watched by kids and comic book nerds. So its not like the general audience really saw it.
On the other hand we do have smallville so...
But as i keep saying, they could do the origin exactly the same, but keep it interesting by giving it a theme (like "fear" in Begins) and focusing more on Clark's psych and how he made all these decisions. In S:TM he just goes to the N.Pole, he throws the crystal and after his training he becomes a journalist at the top newspaper in the country. Well i am sorry, how did he know what to do with the crystal, how and why did he become a journalist, how did he discover his powers (though S:Returns had that and it was nice although very short), what problems did it cause him in his everyday life (for example in Smallville he wanted to play football really badly but he couldnt because he would hurt the other players), how did his parents make him the man he is, what morals and values did they give him, etc.

I am not asking for every little detail to be explained, but all i am saying is that there is a lot of juice there that hasnt been explored. And what really needs to be adressed this time is the importance of his parents on his morals and values.

[solidsnake86]

Listen I really liked STAS as a kid. I just hate when people use that as an example of the origin being done to death. As you said, it was watched by nerds and kids, so its annoying when people think that equates to everyone having seen it, its almost as obsurd as smallville reaching out to everyone. If you were to go by ratings alone lois and clark and the adventures of superman probably had the biggest among those three series to begin with. I'm really liking the way johns is handling certain aspects in his secret origins, his first issue would be a great way to deal with smallville quickly while establishing his character. I would leave out the legion part of it though. The 3rd issue comes out tomorrow and its about clarks first time at the daily planet.

[ck1777]

Actually it is that easy, STM is over 30 years old, no one really cares about it anymore. Superman the animated series which people mention over and over itself is over 10 years old now. All of these different mediums that people keep on saying have shown the origin have a relatively small audience.

They just have to do a new origin and quit thinking about how hard it is because it really isnt. I could understand if superman the movie had all the elements with crappy special effects but the reality of the matter is they screwed up a lot of things (of no fault to itself). A lot has been established in comics that people would like to see in a new origin story.

It's not about who's seen the origin in S:TM or STAS. It's about money. We can all come up with a great origin or they could hire some writer who could write the greatest Superman origin ever, but that doesn't mean Warner Brothers is going to invest 200 million dollars on it. There not going to spend a fortune on something with a couple of differences to STAS or S:TM or any other version. It's all been pitched already.

Also, I'm loving Secret Origin right because I think it's a great mixture of Pre/Post Crisis Superman. Johns whole run on Action Comics has probably been the best run on Superman since Byrne in the 80's. That being said Johns pitched to the WB in the 90's with Donner (they chose to go with Burton/Cage instead), and he pitched after SR also, and they chose not to go with his take. Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, and Marv Wolfman are working for the WB film division right now. Hell, I wouldn't doubt it if Johns pitched Secret Origin to the WB before he did to Didio! The fact is, if they want his take on Superman (origin or not) they'll do it. But all signs point to no right now.

Again, Warner Brothers knows all about Birthright, MOS, and especially Secret Origin. If they want to invest time and money into it they will! If not they'll choose something else. Sadly, history has shown that they always tend to be attracted to the ....else.

[Mr. Earle]

Really? Are those writers really working on WB's movie division? That's great news. If they take only the good stuff from each writer, the result would be awesome. For example Morrison is one of the smartest writers out there, but he has to cut down on those impossible Silver Age plots, John has to limit his angsty teen ideas, etc. Do that and you'll have a solid team. I mean it.

Btw, ck117, i hope you enjoy John's angsty crap in secret origins. I hear Superman got glasses from indestructable crystals from his ship because he shot lasers every time he got horny. :doh:

[ck1777]

Btw, ck117, i hope you enjoy John's angsty crap in secret origins. I hear Superman got glasses from indestructable crystals from his ship because he shot lasers every time he got horny. :doh:

Man, you always have to insult Johns. Before you go cursing the day he was born, why don't you go to wikipedia and do a little research. He just combined the Pre-Crisis origin of the glasses with the heat vision origin of Smallville. He's trying to make a Superman origin that has a little of EVERYTHING that has come before it.

I got a question for you Earle. Since you hate Pre-Crisis Superman, Superboy, Smallville, The Legion, Post Infinite Crisis etc. besides STAS and Post Crisis is there anything you do like?

I'm not saying you're not a fan but if thats the only version of Superman you like, are you sure Superman's for you? With all the problems I have with post/pre Crisis and the fact that I've hated the last 5 seasons of Smallville, I can still see a lot of great things that every version has brought to the mythos.

[Frodo]

Imo , Adapting Superman the way Batman , James Bond and Trek did is not a challenge ,if you've got a good writers and storytellers and a director with a good vision. They may not be present now , but I don't doubt there's someone out there that could make an amazing Superman film.

[Fresh Prince]

I say for the next films go the Fleicher route....Movies take place in the 1940s and everything be Fleicher like.

[Mr. Earle]

Man, you always have to insult Johns. Before you go cursing the day he was born, why don't you go to wikipedia and do a little research. He just combined the Pre-Crisis origin of the glasses with the heat vision origin of Smallville. He's trying to make a Superman origin that has a little of EVERYTHING that has come before it.

I got a question for you Earle. Since you hate Pre-Crisis Superman, Superboy, Smallville, The Legion, Post Infinite Crisis etc. besides STAS and Post Crisis is there anything you do like?

I'm not saying you're not a fan but if thats the only version of Superman you like, are you sure Superman's for you? With all the problems I have with post/pre Crisis and the fact that I've hated the last 5 seasons of Smallville, I can still see a lot of great things that every version has brought to the mythos.
I just dont like Pre Crisis Superman. And Smallville. Smallville is just plain crap.

But the stupid idea to incorporate the glasses because Clark is horny is just lame and has nothing to do with pre or post crisis superman. It only has to do with Johns trying to pull a Nolan and explain the glasses but with a stupid rationalisation.

[ck1777]

I just dont like Pre Crisis Superman. And Smallville. Smallville is just plain crap.

But the stupid idea to incorporate the glasses because Clark is horny is just lame and has nothing to do with pre or post crisis superman. It only has to do with Johns trying to pull a Nolan and explain the glasses but with a stupid rationalisation.

Johns didn't create that take on the heat vision, Smallville created it! And the whole point of Secret Origin is to take a little bit from EVERY VERSION OF SUPERMAN! That means pre/post crisis, movies, tv shows etc.

I'm not saying you're not a fan, but if you only like Post Crisis that's only 17 years out of 70 years of stories.

[ck1777]

Imo , Adapting Superman the way Batman , James Bond and Trek did is not a challenge ,if you've got a good writers and storytellers and a director with a good vision. They may not be present now , but I don't doubt there's someone out there that could make an amazing Superman film.

Believe me, it's not that hard to write/make a good Superman. The backstage politics are the hard part. At the end of the day WB is paying the bill, so they make the choices.

[Mr. Earle]

Johns didn't create that take on the heat vision, Smallville created it! And the whole point of Secret Origin is to take a little bit from EVERY VERSION OF SUPERMAN! That means pre/post crisis, movies, tv shows etc. Did Clark really shoot lasers when he got the hots in smallville? If i remember correctly he only shot lasers uncontrollably when Jor-El was affecting him or something. You know, like he burned that symbol on his barn fence. I dont remember Clark wearing glasses in Smallville anyway...

I'm not saying you're not a fan, but if you only like Post Crisis that's only 17 years out of 70 years of stories. I generally like Superman a lot. He is in my top 3 superheroes. But i could never stomach how sad and pathetic pre-crisis Clark was. And if i remember correctly Superman was insanely powerful as well back then.
So yeah, while i liked Superman, but what made me love him was Lois and Clark, STAS and the post crisis comics with his more modern version.

[ck1777]

Did Clark really shoot lasers when he got the hots in smallville? If i remember correctly he only shot lasers uncontrollably when Jor-El was affecting him or something. You know, like he burned that symbol on his barn fence. I dont remember Clark wearing glasses in Smallville anyway...
I generally like Superman a lot. He is in my top 3 superheroes. But i could never stomach how sad and pathetic pre-crisis Clark was. And if i remember correctly Superman was insanely powerful as well back then.
So yeah, while i liked Superman, but what made me love him was Lois and Clark, STAS and the post crisis comics with his more modern version.

In Pre-crisis Clark's glasses controlled his x-ray/heat vision. In the second season of Smallville, Clark first discovers his heat vision when he gets horny. Smallville didn't have the glasses, Johns just combined them like he's doing with everything else.

It's cool if you only like post crisis, but it's pretty dumb to hate and insult everything that's not post crisis because like I said it's only 17 years out of 70!

[Mr. Earle]

I only insulted the part where he shoots lasers when he is horny.

[Webhead2006]

well for smallville and the secret orgins deal i would take it since we know he has a mental and phsyical connection to his powers things trigger and that caues x power to work and all that.

Still for more personally i do want them to take elements that made superman great in all eras, the whole corp/political lex, and make clark the real person. This is what i really want to see done.

But the main issue in the past and present is wb just doesnt know what they want to do. It does really suck that superman seems to be so darn hard for them. When there is plently of good ideas and writers out there who could combine the best traits and get us a film fans of the characters will like and make it open to general audiences like casino royale did for bond or jj did with the new trek film for trek. Then also presently the whole legal stuff is another hiccup in the dam process.

[Frodo]

Believe me, it's not that hard to write/make a good Superman. The backstage politics are the hard part. At the end of the day WB is paying the bill, so they make the choices.

That's true , plus there's alot of copyright issues that need to be resolved before any Superman film is off the ground.

Along with those things , the public has to hunger for another Superman film.

[Webhead2006]

totally the legal stuff are probably the main factor in stuff not moving. Personally to me i would think they studio would want that all resovlved so they can use all elements to the character. So any reboot would have the option to do everything and all that. Then all we need once the legal stuff is settled is a director/writers that wow the dam studio so they can pick one direction over another.

[The Batman]

Right. So what you're saying is you want the MODERN version of Superman that's based on the 80's and 90's version of Superman. If you're talking about POST-CRISIS Superman, you should know that by 2000 it was already starting to change from Byrne's version that was created in 1986. With Birthright in 2003, Post-Crisis Superman was completely taken out of continuity.

And on the subject on S:TAS, Timm and his crew did a great job on that show and gave us not only one of the best takes on Superman but easily the best take on Post-Crisis Superman yet! And yet S:TAS wasn't anywhere near as popular as B:TAS in termes of ratings and critical acclaim.

You know, for all the punishment you seem to have taken in this thread, you're the only one who understands how somethings work.

I roll my eyes when fans here constantly talk about wanting a modern superman, and then bash donner....because modern superman IS basically a mix of donner and a little post crisis. What they actually want is an outdated version of Superman from the 80's and 90's.

And that's funny...because these same fans will rag on singer for wanting donners superman.

Having STAS/Byrne superman is just as wrong for a film as having Donner Superman. They've both been done, and i dont give a damn if STAS was only a cartoon.

[Mr. Earle]

Oh come on, maybe Clark isnt as dynamic as he used to be in the 90ies, he still isnt like Donner's.

[ck1777]

You know, for all the punishment you seem to have taken in this thread, you're the only one who understands how somethings work.

I roll my eyes when fans here constantly talk about wanting a modern superman, and then bash donner....because modern superman IS basically a mix of donner and a little post crisis. What they actually want is an outdated version of Superman from the 80's and 90's.

And that's funny...because these same fans will rag on singer for wanting donners superman.

Having STAS/Byrne superman is just as wrong for a film as having Donner Superman. They've both been done, and i dont give a damn if STAS was only a cartoon.

Yeah, the truth is Byrne's Superman is very dated. It's not a coincidence that Michael Douglas in Wall Street was one of the most important villains of the 80's.

That being said it doesn't mean Billionaire Lex doesn't work today. In fact if we do get a reboot, I'm pretty positive he'll be closer to Post-Crisis than Pre-Crisis.

But people need to realize that this isn't anything new to the WB. They KNOW WHAT POST CRISIS SUPERMAN IS! Obviously the concept isn't different enough for them. They won't spend $200 million dollars for a Post-Crisis movie, and yet they've made Lois and Clark, and Smallville (which has a lot of Post-Crisis elements) because they're cheap tv shows. A film is a much much bigger gamble.

Also, they didn't greenlight SR because of the Donner influences. They greenlit it for all the things that people hated about it (colors, kid, depressing, etc.). They never showed any interest in continuing S:TM until Bryan Singer came along. Singer basically told them how much he loved S:TM, at the same time he pitched them what THEY WANTED TO HEAR (colors, kid, depressing, etc.).

So to sum up:

1)The WB knows about Post-Crisis Superman
2)Marv Wolfman (co-creator of CEO LEX) is working with the film division.
3)Geoff Johns (who's writing CEO LEX in SO) works with the film division.
4)If they want a Post-Crisis Superman movie they'll make it!
5)History has shown that WB doesn't see enough difference between PRE/POST CRISIS
6)WB always tends to be attracted to drastic changes to Superman

[Steyin]

I only insulted the part where he shoots lasers when he is horny.

I actually don't mind that take on the glasses/heat vision at all. Something has to trigger his abilities for a first time. And as bad as this is going to sound, we ourselves "shoot lasers" when horny the first few times, then learn to control it. Makes sense to me.

[Fresh Prince]

Yeah, the truth is Byrne's Superman is very dated. It's not a coincidence that Michael Douglas in Wall Street was one of the most important villains of the 80's.

That being said it doesn't mean Billionaire Lex doesn't work today. In fact if we do get a reboot, I'm pretty positive he'll be closer to Post-Crisis than Pre-Crisis.

But people need to realize that this isn't anything new to the WB. They KNOW WHAT POST CRISIS SUPERMAN IS! Obviously the concept isn't different enough for them. They won't spend $200 million dollars for a Post-Crisis movie, and yet they've made Lois and Clark, and Smallville (which has a lot of Post-Crisis elements) because they're cheap tv shows. A film is a much much bigger gamble.

Also, they didn't greenlight SR because of the Donner influences. They greenlit it for all the things that people hated about it (colors, kid, depressing, etc.). They never showed any interest in continuing S:TM until Bryan Singer came along. Singer basically told them how much he loved S:TM, at the same time he pitched them what THEY WANTED TO HEAR (colors, kid, depressing, etc.).

So to sum up:

1)The WB knows about Post-Crisis Superman
2)Marv Wolfman (co-creator of CEO LEX) is working with the film division.
3)Geoff Johns (who's writing CEO LEX in SO) works with the film division.
4)If they want a Post-Crisis Superman movie they'll make it!
5)History has shown that WB doesn't see enough difference between PRE/POST CRISIS
6)WB always tends to be attracted to drastic changes to Superman

I want my golden age Superman films....But have Superman fly and everything...And way you saying it is WB still wants to do the Donner like Superman stuff.

[storyteller]

The thing is there's been one movie since Reeves movies and that was treated as a continuation of those movies and then there were issues with that movie that had little to do with being in continuity(honestly if you never saw the reeves movies, you can understand Singers movie without much issue-heck it barely references the old movie).

To me Superman in cinema hasn't had enough experience to have what does and doesn't work. Batman had pretty much 3 different types of films. Superman had Reeve and Routh with decades between.

[ck1777]

I want my golden age Superman films....But have Superman fly and everything...And way you saying it is WB still wants to do the Donner like Superman stuff.

1)Period films rarely make any money so I reeaally doubt that's going to happen.

2)I said the Wb never had any intentions of making a Donner sequel before Singer pitched SR. They agreed to make SR because of the changes Singer made, not because of any ties to S:TM.

3)I don't think the WB want any ties to the Donner film.

4)I don't think the WB want anything that's been done before!

[ck1777]

The thing is there's been one movie since Reeves movies and that was treated as a continuation of those movies and then there were issues with that movie that had little to do with being in continuity(honestly if you never saw the reeves movies, you can understand Singers movie without much issue-heck it barely references the old movie).

To me Superman in cinema hasn't had enough experience to have what does and doesn't work. Batman had pretty much 3 different types of films. Superman had Reeve and Routh with decades between.

Yeah but in those decades between, we've had Superboy, Lois and Clark, Smallville and a bunch of cartoons. That's why the WB has such a hard-on for making a diiferent version of Superman. I guess they figure if they're going to spend all that money, they should spend it on something they haven't done before. I say let Geoff, Grant, and Marv do there thing, but I doubt they'll have much power when it comes to Superman.

[The Batman]

Yeah, the truth is Byrne's Superman is very dated. It's not a coincidence that Michael Douglas in Wall Street was one of the most important villains of the 80's.

That being said it doesn't mean Billionaire Lex doesn't work today. In fact if we do get a reboot, I'm pretty positive he'll be closer to Post-Crisis than Pre-Crisis.

But people need to realize that this isn't anything new to the WB. They KNOW WHAT POST CRISIS SUPERMAN IS! Obviously the concept isn't different enough for them. They won't spend $200 million dollars for a Post-Crisis movie, and yet they've made Lois and Clark, and Smallville (which has a lot of Post-Crisis elements) because they're cheap tv shows. A film is a much much bigger gamble.

Also, they didn't greenlight SR because of the Donner influences. They greenlit it for all the things that people hated about it (colors, kid, depressing, etc.). They never showed any interest in continuing S:TM until Bryan Singer came along. Singer basically told them how much he loved S:TM, at the same time he pitched them what THEY WANTED TO HEAR (colors, kid, depressing, etc.).

So to sum up:

1)The WB knows about Post-Crisis Superman
2)Marv Wolfman (co-creator of CEO LEX) is working with the film division.
3)Geoff Johns (who's writing CEO LEX in SO) works with the film division.
4)If they want a Post-Crisis Superman movie they'll make it!
5)History has shown that WB doesn't see enough difference between PRE/POST CRISIS
6)WB always tends to be attracted to drastic changes to Superman

Agreed.

You're also the only guy I've seen on here that acknowledges the truth about post crisis supes in the media. 2 out of the three post crisis superman tv shows werent so successful. Lois and Clark only lasted 4 seasons, and that was a show that was on ABC I believe. STAS isnt even considered the definitive superman like BTAS is for batman, and only lasted 54 episodes.

Fans are going to have the accept that this oncoming reboot will, in all likelyhood, be based on a superman that is still rooted in donner, or accept the idea of something completely different. But a totally post crisis superman? Not gonna happen.

[Mr. Earle]

But people need to realize that this isn't anything new to the WB. They KNOW WHAT POST CRISIS SUPERMAN IS! Obviously the concept isn't different enough for them. They won't spend $200 million dollars for a Post-Crisis movie, and yet they've made Lois and Clark, and Smallville (which has a lot of Post-Crisis elements) because they're cheap tv shows. A film is a much much bigger gamble. So they'll make the movie for themselves and not the general audience? They ve seen Post Crisis Superman? Well besides Lois and Clark we havent.

And for ****'s sake, will you stop assuming that you know what DC thinks, wants, plans, knows, will do, etc? Its like this in everyone of your posts. What are you, Didio? Jesus Christ cut that **** out.

[The Batman]

Oh come on, maybe Clark isnt as dynamic as he used to be in the 90ies, he still isnt like Donner's.

This is the second time you've shown that you're really not paying attention to comics you keep mentioning.

Read Geoff Johns "Action Comics" and tell me that isnt donner. Better yet, pick up the issue of "Secret Origins" that came out today, or will come out after the holday.

[Mr. Earle]

Lois and Clark only lasted 4 seasons, and that was a show that was on ABC I believe.
Lois and Clark wasnt action packed and focused more on the romance. It had a small budget and at its time comic book franchises werent so popular as they are now.
STAS isnt even considered the definitive superman like BTAS is for batman, and only lasted 54 episodes.BTAS isnt the definitive Batman. Its a fan favourite, that's all. The definitive Batman is the one found in the monthly Batman and Detective Comics issues.
Fans are going to have the accept that this oncoming reboot will, in all likelyhood, be based on a superman that is still rooted in donner, or accept the idea of something completely different. But a totally post crisis superman? Not gonna happen.And you know this because kids spent their Saturday mornings watching something else instead of Superman and because Lois and Clark wasnt a massive success?
Because if BTAS or L&C were more like the Donnerverse they would be successful? :whatever:This is the second time you've shown that you're really not paying attention to comics you keep mentioning.

Read Geoff Johns "Action Comics" and tell me that isnt donner. Better yet, pick up the issue of "Secret Origins" that came out today, or will come out after the holday.
OK, so i dont read as much Superman as i'd like but i will try and catch up in the future. Right now my time is limited and i am trying to catch up on Batman and Blackest Night. Goddamn DC and their events.... :hehe:

[The Batman]

Lois and Clark wasnt action packed and focused more on the romance. It had a small budget and at its time comic book franchises werent so popular as they are now.:

No offense, but all I'm seeing here are lame excuses.

BTAS isnt the definitive Batman. Its a fan favourite, that's all. The definitive Batman is the one found in the monthly Batman and Detective Comics issues..

I like how you tried to divert from the fact that people dont consider STAS definitive like they do BTAS, which was the main point.

And you know this because kids spent their Saturday mornings watching something else instead of Superman and because Lois and Clark wasnt a massive success?

Because common freaking sense tells me that if WB were going to follow a modern day superman thats actuallly...MODERN, its not gonna be based on a take from 1978....and its not gonna be based on a take from 1986. It's probably gonna be based on John's Superman...the one that mixes everything from pre crisis to the smallville tv show together.


Because if BTAS or L&C were more like the Donnerverse they would be successful? :whatever:

Did i say that? Are you misunderstanding what i'm saying? I dont know why L & C didnt capture people's attention like STM did, but that dosent give WB the excuse to rehash it for a new movie just because some fanboys want the same version on a bigger budget. Thats exactly what singer did for SR. Either do something that reflects the comics now, something original, or nothing at all. But dont do post crisis, and dont do donner.

[Lead Cenobite]

Not the wisest of thread openers.

Since when is it a bad thing to have Superman: The Movie as a favorite movie? It isn't totally accurate to the comics, but it's accurate enough, and it's a good movie. It seems like ever since Superman Returns that people are treating it the same way comic fanboys treat the Burton Batman movies, always fussing about what they changed and how it's a bastardization and they don't ever want it to influence a future sequel in any way.

I think people would have a little respect for a movie that tried to make the comic movie genre halfway respectable and give us a somewhat realistic take on Superman. Yeah, they could have given us a more serious Lex (and not Lexcorp Lex because he didn't exist in 1978), but everything else made up for it.

Don't blame STM for the existence of Superman Returns. It could have been a good movie even with all the Donner influences.

[BenReilly]

Read Geoff Johns "Action Comics" and tell me that isnt donner. Better yet, pick up the issue of "Secret Origins" that came out today, or will come out after the holday.

It's definitely Donner inspired. Johns has always cited STM as his all time favorite film. Not to mention, he's always had a close working relationship with the man. Before Johns became a comic book writer, he started out as Donner's assistant.

[The Batman]

Since when is it a bad thing to have Superman: The Movie as a favorite movie? It isn't totally accurate to the comics, but it's accurate enough, and it's a good movie. It seems like ever since Superman Returns that people are treating it the same way comic fanboys treat the Burton Batman movies, always fussing about what they changed and how it's a bastardization and they don't ever want it to influence a future sequel in any way.

I think people would have a little respect for a movie that tried to make the comic movie genre halfway respectable and give us a somewhat realistic take on Superman. Yeah, they could have given us a more serious Lex (and not Lexcorp Lex because he didn't exist in 1978), but everything else made up for it.

Don't blame STM for the existence of Superman Returns. It could have been a good movie even with all the Donner influences.

Its sad, because most of the hatred stems from SR and the fact that Donner's superman influences the history of the character in ways "their superman" never will...

[The Batman]

It's definitely Donner inspired. Johns has always cited STM as his all time favorite film. Not to mention, he's always had a close working relationship with the man. Before Johns became a comic book writer, he started out as Donner's assistant.


This ^....AND Johns is helping out the new film division???? With that in mind, i doubt we're seeing "MOS" on film....

[Fresh Prince]

Jeez man do we need more Donner like Superman films?....Have a new director come in and blast O!....His own thing not Donner....Do not want to see crook/conman/real estate Lex anymore.....NO MORE!!!!!! EVER!!!!!

[Mr. Earle]

No offense, but all I'm seeing here are lame excuses.I am just saying that you re judging the appeal of a version of the character based on a tv show. A tv show that might have not been as good as it could be, a tv show of a small budget that didnt allow it to have even half the action of Smallville, a tv show of the 90ies when apart from Batman there wasnt any other superhero franchise around. Superhero franchises have never been so mainstream before and they always carried that stigma of being cheesy and shallow just because they were based on comic books.
But lets see, by your logic, judging by the success that Brave and the Bold has achieved, a lighthearted Batman movie with talking gorillas riding on pterodactyls would be successful. Well i'll bet you my house that the general audience would never get it and the movie would flank.
I like how you tried to divert from the fact that people dont consider STAS definitive like they do BTAS, which was the main point.They were both kid's shows. So maybe kids didnt like Superman as much and it didnt get the ratings of BTAS. Pokemon is very successful, does that mean that a live action movie would be successful?

The general audience doesnt have the standards and criteria of little kids of comic book fans. Nolan's success is based a lot on his realism (g.a cant stomach a lot of unrealism) and his great stories. It doesnt have to do with the version of batman that he chose. I bet that his batman is an amalgam of many versions of the character.

As for what the true fans consider "definitive", well maybe STAS wasnt that well made. I dont think that the fact that it didnt succeed as much has anything to do with the version of Superman that was used.
Because common freaking sense tells me that if WB were going to follow a modern day superman thats actuallly...MODERN, its not gonna be based on a take from 1978....and its not gonna be based on a take from 1986. It's probably gonna be based on John's Superman...the one that mixes everything from pre crisis to the smallville tv show together.OK, again i need to catch up on Superman. I actually thought that he is still like in the 90ies but apparently DC is doing that recap thing on Superman as well (they did it to Batman as well). I really dont see why they have to embrace every version of the character. Each version appealed to its time and some of them were terrible, so why do we have to make an amalgam version of all these and create the current character?

Anyway, i dont know all the little details, but frankly what i was mostly interested about the 90ies Superman was the dynamic Clark. I could never get the buffoon Clark. Are there any other major differences between the 90ies and the current Superman or is it just that?
but that dosent give WB the excuse to rehash it for a new movie just because some fanboys want the same version on a bigger budget. I am not asking for Lois and Clark. I just dont like the buffoon Clark. I frankly dont know if there are any other differences between those two versions of him? Are there?

For example its like hating stupid playboy Bruce and preferring the more serious philanthropist Bruce (i like them both btw).
Either do something that reflects the comics now, something original, or nothing at all.Nolan's batman doesnt reflect the current comics, but it is something original.
Anyway, i am not asking for a specific version of superman, because i can hardly distinguish them. I am only saying that the buffoon Clark was just sad, pathetic and completely unrealistic. He doesnt have to be a complete idiot to throw off suspicion, just like Bruce doesnt have to be a complete ***hole to throw off suspicion. In BTAS for example he was a very serious and assertive philanthropist who would throw off suspicion by acting clumsily in front of many people, stating to others that he would never do dangerous sports and things like that.
So just by acting like a normal person + the changes in appearence that he applies + superman doesnt wear a mask and he is an alien + being absent minded (superhearing a crime for example) and clumsy on occasion would be enough.

I am currently reading All-Star Superman and in a single issue he tripped over a 100 times. For ****'s sake! Do we want Lois to ever love him for who he is, or keep her in love with the Ken doll that lifts continents? I mean, i liked how Kidman's character in Forever said that girls have to grow up sometime and she realised that she cant be in love with a Ken doll and chose Bruce. But that isnt possible for Clark when he is retarded.

[Mr. Earle]

Since when is it a bad thing to have Superman: The Movie as a favorite movie?
He said it was favourite movie in general, not his favourite superhero movie. For any comic book movie to be your favourite movie in general you'd have to be 10... It's definitely Donner inspired. Johns has always cited STM as his all time favorite film. Not to mention, he's always had a close working relationship with the man. Before Johns became a comic book writer, he started out as Donner's assistant.That explains a lot actually, but i suppose that he doesnt do whatever he wants and his writing is supervised. So i guess DC is sucking the Donner **** again. They re even drawing Supes like Reeve for god's sake!

[Lead Cenobite]

He said it was favourite movie in general, not his favourite superhero movie. For any comic book movie to be your favourite movie in general you'd have to be 10...

I'm sure plenty of people here are good contenders for having a comic movie as their favorite of all time, considering they have thousands of posts and can write page long rants about whether or not Superman's suit should have trunks/underwear. :P

But still, what is wrong with it? Do you have to have something like the Godfather or Citizen Kane as your favorite movie of all time to be considered mature?

[Mr. Earle]

I'm sure plenty of people here are good contenders for having a comic movie as their favorite of all time, considering they have thousands of posts and can write page long rants about whether or not Superman's suit should have trunks/underwear. :P

But still, what is wrong with it? Do you have to have something like the Godfather or Citizen Kane as your favorite movie of all time to be considered mature?I'll let someone else answer that because frankly i dont have the skill to do it.

[ck1777]

So they'll make the movie for themselves and not the general audience? They ve seen Post Crisis Superman? Well besides Lois and Clark we havent.

And for ****'s sake, will you stop assuming that you know what DC thinks, wants, plans, knows, will do, etc? Its like this in everyone of your posts. What are you, Didio? Jesus Christ cut that **** out.

Since you have a knack for talking about things you don't know anything about I'll just tell you what I told you before. Google Superman, and development hell and then come back in a few days!

I remember being 12 or 13 when I saw Nic Cage on a late night talk show (leno I think) talking about Superman. That traumatized me forever! And then after that train wreck was avoided, along came another one, and another, and so on.

Between the history this franchise has had, and the darker angry god comments what makes you think anything has changed? You'd have to be blind to not be worried. It also looks like this is going to be a much more studio controlled movie than any other WB film. There not going to give this to an A class director, they'll probably give it to a Yes Man that'll follow orders.
I hope things have changed at Warner Brothers, but all the evidence shows otherwise.

And for the record, S:TM is my favorite movie of all time! It's the only movie I've seen 200 times and yet somehow I'm still not sick of. I also love The Godfather, the Right Stuff, Star Wars, Rocky, Apocolypse now and more! So since you like talking about things you know nothing about, tell me what's wrong with the movies I listed. Im sure you'll insult them all even though youve probably never seen them? I mean judging from all the Geoff Johns comments that is your style right?

[ck1777]

I'm sure plenty of people here are good contenders for having a comic movie as their favorite of all time, considering they have thousands of posts and can write page long rants about whether or not Superman's suit should have trunks/underwear. :P

But still, what is wrong with it? Do you have to have something like the Godfather or Citizen Kane as your favorite movie of all time to be considered mature?

Seriously, I said that it was my favorite movie of all time not that it was the Best! Id be annoyed but i've noticed everytime earle posts something its obvious he's talking out of his @$$. Just look at his posts through out this thread!

[ck1777]

I'll let someone else answer that because frankly i dont have the skill to do it.

Smartest thing you've posted in this thread yet! Now all you have to do is put that in your sig!

[Mr. Earle]

WB asked Schumacher to up the camp and make the bat films more family oriented. But after the debacle Batman went through development hell and in the end they decided to leave it up to Nolan since his vision seemed good.
So WB might let director X do his thing, or not. Or maybe do this story of Superman, or that. Who knows? They might have learned from their mistakes. Its not like its the exact same people on board that they were back then. You said it yourself that they have Johns on board, so he'll probably push for a movie based on the superman he is currently writing.Seriously, I said that it was my favorite movie of all time not that it was the Best! Id be annoyed but i've noticed everytime earle posts something its obvious he's talking out of his @$$. Just look at his posts through out this thread!
Hey man, dont stare at my ass! :awesome:

[ck1777]

WB asked Schumacher to up the camp and make the bat films more family oriented. But after the debacle Batman went through development hell and in the end they decided to leave it up to Nolan since his vision seemed good.
So WB might let director X do his thing, or not. Or maybe do this story of Superman, or that. Who knows? They might have learned from their mistakes. Its not like its the exact same people on board that they were back then. You said it yourself that they have Johns on board, so he'll probably push for a movie based on the superman he is currently writing.:awesome:

I have no doubt that the WB learned there lesson and we won't see ANYTHING like Burton's Superman, but all signs still point to a new version. The good thing is we do have Wolfman (co-creator of Post-Crisis Superman), Johns (master of taking things from pre/post Crisis) and Morrison (master of everything) working as consultants so that's definitley a relief!

Like I said before, I think the WB is going to be looking for a Yes Man to direct this film. After giving total control and $210 million to Singer, there going to want a guy they can control much easier. Luckily I can't prove this part, so I hope I'm wrong!

[ck1777]

To try to get back on topic, what I mean by the opposite of Donner is to not do anything that was shown in S:TM. Since S:TM is very accurate to the comic, for all the things that have to be shown just give them a slight twist.

S:TM
1)Jor-el sends his son to Earth
2)Kal-el is found by the Kents
3)Raised by the Kents until Johnathan dies
4)Goes to the Arctic
5)Clark Meets Jor-el and learns about Krypton in new fortress
6)Get's job at Daily Planet
7)Superman makes his debut by rescuing a helicopter
8)Lois interviews Superman
9)Lex puts his scheme in motion
10)Superman meets Lex
11)Lex almost kills Superman
12)Superman saves everyone from missiles
13)Turns back time to save Lois
14)Superman smiles at the camera
15)Credits

My version
(These are just examples. I'm not saying these should be in the new movie)

1)No Krypton. keep it a mystery for the sequel
2)Found by Kents (I can't come up with anything different than that)
3)raised by Kents and Johnathan doesn't die
4)Goes around the world with Lana and her archaeologist father.
5)Find some sort of Alien technology
6)Technology awakens Brainac
7)Fights Braniac drone
8)Almost dies from the Braniac fight
9)Lana finds out about Clarks powers
10)Clark realizes he's the only one that can stop Braniac
11)Creates a prototype costume with a certain kryptonian symbol
12)Stops Braniac and saves the day
13)Finds a couple of kryptonian clues from Brainiacs tech
14)Tells lana he's made his decision and is moving to Metropolis
15)makes an appointment for a job interview
16)Credits

If the WB insisted on keeping Lex, Krypton, and the Daily Planet than:

1)Jor-el vs. Brainiac on Krypton like STAS
2)CEO Lex.
3)And the most controversial.....a new Daily Planet

The Daily Planet would have all the classic characters (Lois,Jimmy,Perry) but it wouldn't just be a newspaper anymore. In real life the newspaper is practically extinct so to update Superman for a new generation you'd have to update the Daily Planet. Clark could work as a journalist behind the scenes, while Lois could be an On-Location T.V Reporter. I'm not too crazy about that idea, but I think it worked really well in The New Frontier. Or, if they don't want Lois in front of a camera, they could both work behind the scenes. Or the DP could be a media outlet like CNN, but at the same time have a very small newspaper division where Clark and Lois could work.

Once again: I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT THE NEXT MOVIE SHOULD BE. The point of this was just to not show anything that Donner did, and the things you have to show to update them a little. Abrams first draft was nothing like Superman in the comics, but after every draft it got closer and closer. I'm saying change everything from S:TM in the most simple way, and if Warner Brothers insists on more changes, than so be it. But always start with the most simple solution first!

[Fresh Prince]

No one asked for angry GOd Superman....Just more golden age Superman.

[Mr. Earle]

I have no doubt that the WB learned there lesson and we won't see ANYTHING like Burton's Superman, but all signs still point to a new version. The good thing is we do have Wolfman (co-creator of Post-Crisis Superman), Johns (master of taking things from pre/post Crisis) and Morrison (master of everything) working as consultants so that's definitley a relief!

Like I said before, I think the WB is going to be looking for a Yes Man to direct this film. After giving total control and $210 million to Singer, there going to want a guy they can control much easier. Luckily I can't prove this part, so I hope I'm wrong!All these writers are comic book writers and they dont know how to direct a movie. Then, some of the things that work in comics dont work in the movies. You cant apply Morrison's impossible Silver Age plots to the big screen and expect the general audience to like it.
On the other hand, i dont want another director taking full control and doing whatever he wants. I mean, we will probably end up with a new version of things, but the problem is that it doesnt always work. Nolan's films may be successful and his stories great, but the cost to pay is the lack of realism, lack of fun, we wont see most of the rogues gallery because they are unrealistic, and bad fight scenes.
So you need a mutual relationship between the two parts. They need to work together because if one orders the other around, the chances of failure get bigger.

[solidsnake86]

CK1777 there obviously going to come up with a new version, you're not really saying anything that most people don't know. Does it have to be the opposite of donner, absolutely not. Geoff Johns is taking all of his elements and making a great story in secret origins, I would love to see that on screen minus the legion part.

[NeoRanger]

With Birthright in 2003, Post-Crisis Superman was completely taken out of continuity.
No, he wasn't. Only the origin was redone (Lex included), but the rest of the history was from all indications the same, down to the pocket dimension killings. Post-Crisis Superman was retconned with Infinite Crisis.

But the problem is if they didn't want a more Post-Crisis Superman movie in the 90's
Sure they did. Kevin Smith's Superman script was very much a post-crisis Superman. The reasons it never got made had nothing to do with the material.

Also, they didn't greenlight SR because of the Donner influences. They greenlit it for all the things that people hated about it (colors, kid, depressing, etc.). They never showed any interest in continuing S:TM until Bryan Singer came along. Singer basically told them how much he loved S:TM, at the same time he pitched them what THEY WANTED TO HEAR (colors, kid, depressing, etc.).
I'm pretty sure the consensus over at Warner was that they loved what Singer intended to do in its entirety. I personally think they were on mushrooms at the time, but they loved it nonetheless.

Lois and Clark only lasted 4 seasons, and that was a show that was on ABC I believe.
L&C's numbers went up in the 3rd season and it was going to have a 5th season just fine; it got axed only to be replaced by a show Disney wanted to bring up in its place. I don't remember the particulars, but it wasn't pulled from the air, because of low-ratings.

Also, I know we live in the world where shows last fine for a decade (and judging by 'Smallville' they don't even have to be good), but four seasons are anything but a failure for a TV show.

In any case, I've been vocal about how much I don't want to see a Donner-related film on the silver screen for as long as I live, but I wouldn't go as far as purposefully making everything a polar opposite of his stuff. And regarding the source material... if it was simply a matter of following one version or the other, we'd be seeing our 2nd sequel this summer. WB needs a Superman that works for the mainstream audience, regardless of the different mythos elements that the rest of us will be throwing angry fits over over here.

The discussion is kind of moot; we all have our ideal versions of a Superman movie lodged at the back of our heads and they matter little, at least until we're hired to write the bloody thing.

[ck1777]

No, he wasn't. Only the origin was redone (Lex included), but the rest of the history was from all indications the same, down to the pocket dimension killings. Post-Crisis Superman was retconned with Infinite Crisis.


Sure they did. Kevin Smith's Superman script was very much a post-crisis Superman. The reasons it never got made had nothing to do with the material.


I'm pretty sure the consensus over at Warner was that they loved what Singer intended to do in its entirety. I personally think they were on mushrooms at the time, but they loved it nonetheless.

Yeah my bad. I meant MOS was taken out of continuity in 2003 not all of Post-Crisis Superman.

Kevin Smith's Superman could have been done after Burton had ruined it if the WB really wanted to. Warner Brothers were more interested in Burton than they were with Smith.

Sure Warner Brothers liked all of Singers pitch, but they never would have accepted it without all the changes Singer brought. Without the changes it's almost a remake of S:TM. Also, at that time Warners was supposedly not interested in making an origin movie anymore. McG proved it right before he was off the project in an interview at some movie premiere. He kept saying he wanted to explore the Genesis of the character but the WB wanted to go another way. I remember getting a kick out of that interview because he used the term Genesis like 100 times and it would have mage a good drinking game.

[ck1777]

CK1777 there obviously going to come up with a new version, you're not really saying anything that most people don't know. Does it have to be the opposite of donner, absolutely not. Geoff Johns is taking all of his elements and making a great story in secret origins, I would love to see that on screen minus the legion part.

I like SO too, but I really doubt there's any chance of a movie version being made. I don't think Warners would allow the comic to be released if there was any chance of them making a movie out of it. Also, besides some of the 3rd issue, Secret Origins has done what I've said. They've shown a lot of things that weren't shown in S:TM but at the same time they've avoided things that were shown (Krypton, Kents finding Clark etc.) I'd go into more detail but I don't want to spoil the issue for anyone.

Like you said, I think most people know what's going on but I think a lot of people just don't want to believe it.

[Webhead2006]

For me i personally dont want to see any future superman films be stuck being like donner's superman. I still dont see the problem of taking the best elements from all eras of the character. That work the best mix them all together. Then through in stuff we fans want to see like corp lex, a non baffon clark kent cover, etc.... other plots.

But we have no real clue really what is going to happen in the future. What changes their is now with the restructing of dc comics into DCE and all that. Plus all things said since SR release could be very moot by the time next film ever does get around to production stages. Things change so fast these days. Only thing we do know for sure is superman isnt going anywhere film wise to the legal mumbo jumbo is done.

[El Payaso]

For me i personally dont want to see any future superman films be stuck being like donner's superman.

So you actually think that it might be ahppening?

[Mr. Earle]

Kevin Smith's script had Superman fight a giant spider. Burton cast Cage and Abraam's script is basically the equivalent of taking a **** on Superman's face.
How can DC make wonderful Superman comics and when it comes to the movies they let people who have no idea about the character write scripts? Jesus Christ, i lost faith in them completely. It turns out that Batman's success is based on Nolan and Goyer because WB clearly dont know what they re doing.

[elgaz]

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families. This method has been used in some comic book incarnations in the past.

My reason for doing so is that Superman is meant to be the last Kryptonian, yet in all Superman media - TV, radio, comics, movies - he's always encountered others who have equal powers to him : Zod, Supergirl, etc. He is widely considered to be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, yet this role diminishes somewhat when we know there are others out there with exactly the same abilities.

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.

[Mr. Earle]

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families. This method has been used in some comic book incarnations in the past.

My reason for doing so is that Superman is meant to be the last Kryptonian, yet in all Superman media - TV, radio, comics, movies - he's always encountered others who have equal powers to him : Zod, Supergirl, etc. He is widely considered to be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, yet this role diminishes somewhat when we know there are others out there with exactly the same abilities.

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.Three words: DO NOT WANT.

[ck1777]

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.

He's had a thirty-something year head start of absorbing solar rays. He's unique and unlike any other Kryptonian because he's more powerful than any of them. If he was genetically altered and he's the only one who can absorb our yellow sun than why bother having other Kryptonians if they can't?

[elgaz]

I'm not saying they can't - but the effect on them wouldnt be as strong as it is on Kal-El.

In any version I've read or watched to date, his 30yr head start is pretty much irrelevant - any other Kryptonians exposed to our sun have the same powers as him, which makes his iconic role as 'last survivor of Krypton' seem a bit OTT.

[Mr. Earle]

What if Clark is found by a young, rich couple? Then one night when he is 12 they take him to the opera, but when they leave from the back door, the couple is gunned down by a thief in front of him.

[super-t]

NO NO NO NO supes should be in WWII and get lost in alaska in freeze in the ice and then obama finds him in 09 and gives him a "SHEILDED" costume! ;)

[Excelsior.]

Make Superman's mother white and father Kenyan. Also muslim. :yay:

[Fresh Prince]

WTF?....Superman being a muslim?.....NOOOO!

[RachelDawes]

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families. This method has been used in some comic book incarnations in the past.

My reason for doing so is that Superman is meant to be the last Kryptonian, yet in all Superman media - TV, radio, comics, movies - he's always encountered others who have equal powers to him : Zod, Supergirl, etc. He is widely considered to be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, yet this role diminishes somewhat when we know there are others out there with exactly the same abilities.

By having him genetically altered in some way, it would make him totally unique even amongst fellow Kryptonians and also make it more acceptable that his incredible powers can[ be caused by our yellow sun.

There are already complaints that Superman is too powerful. He needs beings in the universe to be as powerful as he is, even if it makes him less unique.

[NeoRanger]

Kevin Smith's script had Superman fight a giant spider. Burton cast Cage and Abraam's script is basically the equivalent of taking a **** on Superman's face.
How can DC make wonderful Superman comics and when it comes to the movies they let people who have no idea about the character write scripts?

Hey now, don't be unfair; Kevin Smith knows his comic books, it was producer Jon Peters that demanded the spider was in the script. And Abraam's took a **** on Superman's mythos, but word has it his Superman characterization was pretty spot-on, though I can't confirm this one myself.

I would like to see a version of Superman where he is not simply another Kryptonian, but one who was either genetically altered slightly by Jor El to make him hugely powerful under a yellow sun, or else he was the culmination of generations of selective Kryptonian breeding from their finest families.I was working something similar in my head recently, but no, not for a movie. This is the kind of thing you want to experiment with in an one-shot, not something that will lodge into the mainstream's perception of Superman.

Smallville does enough damage in that regard as it is.

Then one night when he is 12 they take him to the opera,Ha! Bruce was 8!

[Mr. Earle]

And Abraam's took a **** on Superman's mythos, but word has it his Superman characterization was pretty spot-on, though I can't confirm this one myself.Search for his script on youtube. Here are some plot points: Krypton doesnt explode, but Jor-El sends his son to Earth because they are trying to kill him. Lex has powers. He and Superman fight across Metropolis. Yeah....

[Fresh Prince]

Why is Jor-El trying to kill his son?

[Mr. Earle]

Others are, so he tries to hide him in a distant planet. ****'s ****ed up!

[NeoRanger]

Search for his script on youtube. Here are some plot points: Krypton doesnt explode, but Jor-El sends his son to Earth because they are trying to kill him. Lex has powers. He and Superman fight across Metropolis. Yeah....
I know. Hence the "****ting on the mythos" bit; but mythos=/= characterization. And if I absolutely had to pick between one, I'd choose the latter.

[Fresh Prince]

Others are, so he tries to hide him in a distant planet. ****'s ****ed up!

Yeah that sounds stupid.

[solidsnake86]

I like SO too, but I really doubt there's any chance of a movie version being made. I don't think Warners would allow the comic to be released if there was any chance of them making a movie out of it. Also, besides some of the 3rd issue, Secret Origins has done what I've said. They've shown a lot of things that weren't shown in S:TM but at the same time they've avoided things that were shown (Krypton, Kents finding Clark etc.) I'd go into more detail but I don't want to spoil the issue for anyone.

Like you said, I think most people know what's going on but I think a lot of people just don't want to believe it.

I'm liking it too because its doing what everyone is asking for, combining elements from different eras into one version. I don't think for a movie they should use the legion though. I'm thinking the opposite of you in terms of Warners not releasing it if they were going to make a movie. What if there using it to test the waters because its fairly obvious superman fans can't agree on any superman origin story. Its been getting great reviews and with Johns involvement with the film division, if they do a reboot, I can see it having some influence.

[Webhead2006]

that is what i keep saying myself, i think it would be best if they take the best traits that define the characters in each era. Then make a new and original story around that and there you go.

[Fresh Prince]

that is what i keep saying myself, i think it would be best if they take the best traits that define the characters in each era. Then make a new and original story around that and there you go.

This....But WB is stupid.

[Webhead2006]

yea i know things to us fans dont seem to be that hard to find something that could be a good film. I said this last night i really do wonder what the heck is going on with the execs when ever they are talking about superman on film. Besides the legal stuff why is it so darn difficult for them?

[Fresh Prince]

it would be messed up if after this whole thing they still did the Donnerverse with Superman films....I still want my Superboy movie by the way dammit!

[Webhead2006]

i just as i said wouldnt want donnor's take to be the full basis of any future superman movies. Its still a classic and i like it alot. But i am ready for a new take for the film version of superman. That is why i still say dont make the next film series based on just one take of the character's rich history. But take the best elements/traits from all the comics, cartoons, tv shows, and so forth and make a new and original story with those elements.

[Mr. Earle]

it would be messed up if after this whole thing they still did the Donnerverse with Superman films....I still want my Superboy movie by the way dammit!So why do you like Superboy so much? Does it have any good stories, or good supporting characters? What's the deal with Superboy?

[El Payaso]

it would be messed up if after this whole thing they still did the Donnerverse with Superman films....I still want my Superboy movie by the way dammit!

But man... why ruining the Superman mythos like that?

[Fresh Prince]

Superboy to me has good stories and characters....I used to have the tape and watch the Superboy episodes all the time when I was younger...Its part of Supes mythos.

[Frodo]

I'm someone who literally grew up when the Donner films were released and I believe there needs to be a clean break from them. The Donner film will always be a classic and it will always be an influential part of the Superman mythology. No one can take that away from it.

But the fact is that it will never be 1978 again, and you're not ever going to find another Chris Reeve. It all came together at a particular place and time and it can't be repeated the same way again. Nor should it. If you're going to tell the Superman story again, they have to do it in a different way, no matter how much the filmmaker admires Superman 1 and 2.

I'm sure Nolan liked Burtons Batman film's , but he knew that he had to give his own vision of Batman instead of trying to make a defacto part three to the Burton films.

To be fair SR did expore Superman as a dad , which was new , but unfortunately the film was still too tied to the Donner films to be a new telling of the story. After that there's really nowhere else to go since SR should be the end of a francise not the beginning of a new one.

I think the overall goal is to take elements of what's been done before, while at the same time presenting a new fresh telling of the story without it being an ode to one particular version.

[Fresh Prince]

^ Agreed.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I'd be okay with them keeping Crystal Krypton from Donner's flicks but everything else should be taken from other sources and new spins should be put on those things.

[solidsnake86]

I would would actually like if they said the crystals were a new technology or only used for some things and have krypton be a mix of style instead of all crystals.

[Mr. Earle]

I didnt like the crystal look of Krypton. It's too clinical, too depressing. I understand that they wanted a super advanced look for Krypton, but i'm afraid i dont like it. Perhaps a new design would be in order.

Also, i never quite liked that a whole fortress can come out a crystal. Is this how it is in the comics as well?
I had this idea, that just like the kryptonians transferred prisoners into the phantom zone, perhaps they could have whole bases that they would keep in a similar dimension, that they could teleport at their location. For example setting up a base at an exploratory expedition, or a war. The crystal is used to teleport the base at the desired location. Jor-El stole one of those and put it on the spaceship for Clark to have a part of krypton with him. The explosion destroyed Krypton, but the Fortress was safe in the "storage zone".

Its not the best idea, i know, but i think it beats having a fortress come out of a small crystal.

[Fresh Prince]

How about a Micheal Bayverse for Superman....All seriousness though I would not mind if he made a Supes films...Sure his movies are balls to walls action, with little character development, but!...If its a mix of TF/Bad Boys I would be cool!...Bad Boys have pretty good character development, with themes like friendship, romance trust, revenge and greed...All that in a Superman mythos.

[ck1777]

Superboy to me has good stories and characters....I used to have the tape and watch the Superboy episodes all the time when I was younger...Its part of Supes mythos.

I think a Superboy movie could work too. Lana, and Smallville, could have a big part in the film, and then at the end he could move to Metropolis. That woud be something we've never seen before on film. Also, the younger you make Superman the more kids will relate to him which is something that we're really going to need in a new movie.

Last but not least, movie studios always want a younger cast for every damn movie anyway so just make it that he's 17 or 18 and be done with it. I rather see an actor in his early twenty's playing Superboy than playing SuperMAN (like Armie Hammer in Justice League)!

[Fresh Prince]

I think a Superboy movie could work too. Lana, and Smallville, could have a big part in the film, and then at the end he could move to Metropolis. That woud be something we've never seen before on film. Also, the younger you make Superman the more kids will relate to him which is something that we're really going to need in a new movie.

Last but not least, movie studios always want a younger cast for every damn movie anyway so just make it that he's 17 or 18 and be done with it. I rather see an actor in his early twenty's playing Superboy than playing SuperMAN (like Armie Hammer in Justice League)!

Yeah see it can work.

[Mr. Earle]

I think a Superboy movie could work too. Lana, and Smallville, could have a big part in the film, and then at the end he could move to Metropolis. That woud be something we've never seen before on film. Also, the younger you make Superman the more kids will relate to him which is something that we're really going to need in a new movie.

Last but not least, movie studios always want a younger cast for every damn movie anyway so just make it that he's 17 or 18 and be done with it. I rather see an actor in his early twenty's playing Superboy than playing SuperMAN (like Armie Hammer in Justice League)!So Superboy will be in Smallville, a small village in Kansas. Fighting who? Cows?
And then at the same time Clark moves to Metropolis, so does Superboy who also changes to Superman. Just get your fix from Smallville since you say you like it.

But in any case, why is a teenager in a Superman suit so appealing to you guys? I suppose CK117 has had worse ideas so maybe i should be happy. Its a step up!

[Fresh Prince]

Dude their can be criminals he faces in Smallville....Just cause its a small town do not mean their are no criminals....Most of the worst things can happen in small towns...Superboy could take on criminals, or somne of his rouge villians...Which he faces at Superboy some of them before he is Superman...I do not see a problem with it...And he is a teenager yes but he is so AWESOME!...Superboy is kickass dude.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

How about a Micheal Bayverse for Superman....All seriousness though I would not mind if he made a Supes films...Sure his movies are balls to walls action, with little character development, but!...If its a mix of TF/Bad Boys I would be cool!...Bad Boys have pretty good character development, with themes like friendship, romance trust, revenge and greed...All that in a Superman mythos.No.

[Azrael24]

Damn..peeps in this thread are PIIIICCKKKY.

Why is it such a crime for someone's favorite movie of all time to be Donner's Superman? Seriously, it had flaws, but it was a good movie. Some people like Scarface, which I thought was crap (and I love Pacino). It's a preference, get over it.

As far as Geoff Johns...he's incredible. I do not like the direction Dan Diddo is taking DC comics with his damn multiverse destruction, but not really a destruction...but Johns is gold.

Having said that, I completely agree that Donner's version needs to be just that, his version and they need something new. BUT that doesn't mean you rewrite cannon to separate it from Donner's version. Keeping Jonathan Kent alive, changing the fortress and all the crystal stuff, you can do all that. But other things must be left alone. I personally don't have a problem with Superman having crystal structures as buildings, but I do have a problem with the whole planet being Antarctica.

I think that doing a Superboy movie is implausible and not viable. If you do that, you ruin any chances of a Superman movie, because you've seen everything. I am okay with Superboy in the comics or a cartoon, but the big screen is reserved for the big dogs, and Superboy is not a big dog like SuperMAN.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I hope we never see a Superboy movie because it sounds like a terrible idea.

Lets get Superman right for once. I mean I've watched 4 Superman movies and don't give a s**t about any of them. Reeve and Kidder were good and so was Zod but thats about it for me.

I don't really care about the people jumping off of the Donner bandwagon because it is cool but I know that I never thought too highly of those flicks. I'm waiting for the Batman Begins of the Superman franchise and more importantly, TDK. The second Batman series is when I really gave a real s**t about the Batman flicks.

I hope to g-d Superman follows suit because if I see one more mediocre or bad Superman movie I'm giving up on the franchise.

I don't want an exact opposite of the Donner series but I don't want another wholely Donner lovefest parade. WB needs to re-orgin just to completely a finally get us out of this Donner is all Superman is about bulls**t.

[Fresh Prince]

Scarface blows Donner Superman films out the water...Anyways I too have not liked all 4 Donner flicks...Thought first two were average at best, next 2 crap and SR average at best also...As for Superboy itswhatever really.

[Mr. Earle]

Dude their can be criminals he faces in Smallville....Just cause its a small town do not mean their are no criminals....Most of the worst things can happen in small towns...Superboy could take on criminals, or somne of his rouge villians...Which he faces at Superboy some of them before he is Superman...I do not see a problem with it...And he is a teenager yes but he is so AWESOME!...Superboy is kickass dude.If you cant see how ridiculous it would be for Superboy to be in a village, fighting criminals there, and then moving to metropolis and becoming superman just as clark moves there too, then there isnt anything i can say to convince you otherwise.

[Fresh Prince]

I'm moving on from the Superboy stuff anyways.

[Azrael24]

Scarface blows Donner Superman films out the water...Anyways I too have not liked all 4 Donner flicks...Thought first two were average at best, next 2 crap and SR average at best also...As for Superboy itswhatever really.

Hence the idea of opinion. That is your opinion. I don't think Scarface can hold Training Day. I will watch Superman over Scarface all day, but that's just my opinion.

It's cool if you thought the first two Donner films were average and I am not saying that we recreate them, I'm saying don't bash on folks who liked them. Because everyone LOVES the TDK, I prefer BB. It's all taste.:woot:

[Fresh Prince]

I did not bash anyone who likes the Donner films....And I understand it is opinion...I still want my Superboy movie, I think if done right it be great, and thats my opnion.

[metr0man]

Superman movie franchise isn't as popular as Batman's.

They can go over the same ground as the Donner movie. New generation hasn't even seen the film most likely. This might shock some people here, but outside of the 'geek community' the Donner movie is not worshiped as a pinnacle of filmmaking. It was liked but now its this funny 70s movie.

The first thing I'd do differently is to spend less time in Smallville with Clark growing up. In fact, I'd skip most of it, and have only a scene or two of him growing up, and he'd be arriving in Metropolis 15 minutes into the movie.

Secondly, I would have Superman's "introduction" to the world be something far more dramatic than saving a plane or shuttle or something. He should actually defeat a villain, or stop an alien attack or something huge like that.

Personally I want to see Darkseid's attempted invasion of Earth. Have Superman become beloved as a hero for a REASON, by stopping a real gigantic epic threat to the Earth.

[Webhead2006]

I'm someone who literally grew up when the Donner films were released and I believe there needs to be a clean break from them. The Donner film will always be a classic and it will always be an influential part of the Superman mythology. No one can take that away from it.

But the fact is that it will never be 1978 again, and you're not ever going to find another Chris Reeve. It all came together at a particular place and time and it can't be repeated the same way again. Nor should it. If you're going to tell the Superman story again, they have to do it in a different way, no matter how much the filmmaker admires Superman 1 and 2.

I'm sure Nolan liked Burtons Batman film's , but he knew that he had to give his own vision of Batman instead of trying to make a defacto part three to the Burton films.

To be fair SR did expore Superman as a dad , which was new , but unfortunately the film was still too tied to the Donner films to be a new telling of the story. After that there's really nowhere else to go since SR should be the end of a francise not the beginning of a new one.

I think the overall goal is to take elements of what's been done before, while at the same time presenting a new fresh telling of the story without it being an ode to one particular version.

totally frodo its time to go in a new and different direction and all that.

[Fresh Prince]

^ Yeah lets start all over.

[Webhead2006]

totally its time to go in a new direction, dont hamper on donnor's superman again. Sure it would be ok to maybe do a nod or two at the most to donner like either kept the fos a crystal thing or some minor little thing. But then for the film itself dont base it entirely on one direction/take on the character. Keep it open with ideas and thought from different takes on the character. Find a way to make them mesh together and then we go with a new and different story. Really why is it such a troublesome for them. Story wise that is for a script.

[Fresh Prince]

I like a Mark Millerverse.

[Webhead2006]

i really just wish making a dam script the execs like wasnt so dam hard.

[El Payaso]

If you cant see how ridiculous it would be for Superboy to be in a village, fighting criminals there, and then moving to metropolis and becoming superman just as clark moves there too, then there isnt anything i can say to convince you otherwise.

You know what's the only thing that REALLY bothers me about him? The name. I fail to see the logic behind calling yourself Superboy while you're a minor and then change it to Superman when you become... a man. It's not like he's Superboy, then Superteen then Superman and then.. Super-senior? I wouldn't mind a young Superman if he wasn't called Superboy.

That said, you're right about Superboy-Smallville/Superman-Metropolis/Clark Kent connection. Then again Bruce Wayne adopted Diock Grayson and a little later Batman got Robin... :huh:

[NeoRanger]

It's not like he's Superboy, then Superteen then Superman and then.. Super-senior?
Eh, it was the Silver Age. There were plenty of silly names; Superboy, Supertot, the entire Legion of Superheroes...

Superboy gets much love, because he had a number of decent stories for his time and people grew attached to him; it helped that being a teenage superhero resonates better with the younger readership. But he really isn't all that needed; he was a marketing ploy, after all and with Superman around, he's just reduntant, especially in a medium outside the comic books.

[Fresh Prince]

i really just wish making a dam script the execs like wasnt so dam hard.

Just get Mark Miller and use his ideas and everything be fine.

[Webhead2006]

well alot of folks didnt like what miller was pitching. heck what they should do is take the 3 dc writers they have signed on for dc project, work in conjucture with a good script writer like a david koepp or someone like that sorry i cant really think of any other screen writers off the top of my head right now. Then have all them hammer out all the finer details. The dc guys get the comic elements in the script, and the script writer gets its up to snuff for film quality and there you go.

[ck1777]

So Superboy will be in Smallville, a small village in Kansas. Fighting who? Cows?
And then at the same time Clark moves to Metropolis, so does Superboy who also changes to Superman. Just get your fix from Smallville since you say you like it.

But in any case, why is a teenager in a Superman suit so appealing to you guys? I suppose CK117 has had worse ideas so maybe i should be happy. Its a step up!

What part of I've hated the last 5 seasons of Smallville do you not understand? Holy crap! It's become clear that you a)never know what the hell you're talking about b)don't read anyone's posts. I've told you before read a comic and then come talk to me because you clearly don't know anything about Superman or anything else! Just ignore the rest of this since you've proven time and time again that you can't read!

If they ever did do a concept like Superboy there's no way in hell they would ever call it Superboy! It would be like SpiderMAN where the hero is a teenager but still calls himself SPIDERMAN. So his name in the movie would still be Superman! Also, he would'nt be Superman in Smallville. He could make his debut to the world in Metropolis or any other part of the world later on in the film.

Like I said before, movie studios always want to cast younger so I wouldn't be surprised if they did choose something like this instead of a Superman in his late 20's early 30's.

[Mr. Earle]

Jeez, lighten up dude. You and many others around here have been defending Smallville. Now i cant remember how much each one of you likes Smallville so i just wrote that.

[Fresh Prince]

well alot of folks didnt like what miller was pitching. heck what they should do is take the 3 dc writers they have signed on for dc project, work in conjucture with a good script writer like a david koepp or someone like that sorry i cant really think of any other screen writers off the top of my head right now. Then have all them hammer out all the finer details. The dc guys get the comic elements in the script, and the script writer gets its up to snuff for film quality and there you go.

Well them people need to kick rocks and give Mark Miller a chance....A trilogy of Superman's life if done right could be the greatest movies ever made!

[Webhead2006]

its still likely never going to go to mark miller. sure he is a decent writer i have enjoyed most of his stuff i have read(marvel stuff). But who knows when/if superman is on plate who they really will end up going with.

[Fresh Prince]

I will have hope that its Mark Miller doing the Supes films.

[Webhead2006]

he likely isnt going to. Either if its any time soon maybe a mixture of the 3 dc guys doing projects for wb right now. Or just a hired writer, or if they let director pick writer. So much we dont know.

[Fresh Prince]

What about JJ Abrams?

[Mr. Earle]

What about JJ Abrams?I think he could direct a good Superman movie, but he must not be the one to write it. The script he wrote and proposed to WB during the 90ies was just plain stupid. You can find it around the internet.

[Webhead2006]

well sure his script then was bad, he knows it now and probably would do things differently. But he is likely never going to get the chance on superman again. Though i wouldnt be against him directing now. He is becoming a good director.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Can people please stop bringing up Abrams? He isn't going to do it and frankly I don't think that he is right for the project.

[Fresh Prince]

Ridley Scott for Superman then? Micheal Mann? Mann has that bring you into the movie thing.

[Webhead2006]

yea abrams isnt likely to even get hands on superman again. Plus we know they would want someone who they can control more. So it will probably be who ever studio guy. Though i cant really think of any names.

[Mr. Earle]

Can people please stop bringing up Abrams? He isn't going to do it and frankly I don't think that he is right for the project.Hamm isnt going to be cast as Superman either but still people keep talking about him. So... :oldrazz:

[Fresh Prince]

Why anybody want Jon Hamm as Supes?

[Webhead2006]

well maybe hamm could still be another character like jor-el/perry white/ or even lex(he was pretty cool in that parody video).

[Fresh Prince]

Jon Hamm as Lex Luthor would not be bad.

[RachelDawes]

Jon Hamm as Lex Luthor would not be bad.

He's getting up there in age so he'll probably more suited for the villain rather than hero by the time the next Supes movie is made.

Wait, Fresh Prince is banned?

[Webhead2006]

So i was just reading over in other section of Hype that there looks to be yet another reboot/origin story for superman coming soon in the comics. This time by writer JMS. Boy oh boy what number reboot will this one be lol.

[KalMart]

So i was just reading over in other section of Hype that there looks to be yet another reboot/origin story for superman coming soon in the comics. This time by writer JMS. Boy oh boy what number reboot will this one be lol.

Does he come from another planet that's about to explode this time? :woot:

[Mr. Earle]

Does he come from another planet that's about to explode this time? :woot:Wait, there was an origin that this didnt happen?

[El Payaso]

Wait, there was an origin that this didnt happen?

In J J Ambrams treatment I think. Krypton didn't explode and Lex was a CIA agent that was... Kryptonian as well.

[Mr. Earle]

In J J Ambrams treatment I think. Krypton didn't explode and Lex was a CIA agent that was... Kryptonian as well.Oh yes, i had forgotten about that. Its been a while since i read that.

[El Payaso]

Those things can't be forgotten.

[Ultimate_Superman]

In J J Ambrams treatment I think. Krypton didn't explode and Lex was a CIA agent that was... Kryptonian as well.Once again that was only in the first draft. By the thrid draft you were looking at a movie along the lines of Birthright with just more action. IMO he did do a great job with Superman once he moved past the first draft. Showtime can even confirm this however as Showtime has told me many times in the past the first draft should have never happened in the first place.

[Webhead2006]

oh totally the crazy stuff was just in the first draft which most of the fandom that knows of it hate it. But yea from what we know later drafts started to get things in the more right places.

[Ultimate_Superman]

oh totally the crazy stuff was just in the first draft which most of the fandom that knows of it hate it. But yea from what we know later drafts started to get things in the more right places.correct the later drafts had Krypton blowing up, Lexcorp, and a few other things that would have made it a great epic movie. What the later drafts were like was more like Star Trek as far as the action and story goes but still staying true to Superman and Lex. It would have been a great movie.

Much like when people look at SR. Superman Returns IMO is probably the best comic book movie you will see to date and if Singer ever went back and added in all the deleted material that really help tell the story of the movie I think a lot of opinions on that movie would have changed expect those looking for nothing but action. Which is why I say read the shooting script for that movie to see what was shot and how it impacted the movie and story.

[Mr. Earle]

Superman Returns IMO is probably the best comic book movie you will see to date Says the man with "Superman Returns" in his details.

[Webhead2006]

who knows how the film would have turned out if singer left everything in and all that.

[KalMart]

who knows how the film would have turned out if singer left everything in and all that.

It only would have made it longer...which is why it was taken out.