Re-Writing the Star Wars Prequels....

[marvelman2006]

if someday all 3 prequels get remade and i hope they dont because what else could be added that we dont know by now ... i hope that director or studio leaves the senate and politics the 3 movies had at the door. in my eyes the senate talk and politic scenes are what made these movies boring. there was adventure but too much senate/cnn scenes for my taste.

Who cares about government in a "galaxy". I believe george didnt think that little nugget through all the way while writing. I mean there was atleast 20 planets in this galaxy and some how there is a one giant government for all them? and some planets had kings and queens so why would they report to a sente? stuff like that is what drove me nutz because i knew that stuff was pointless overall. everytime i try to sort out the plotholes in these movies i feel like :wall:

[Sloth7d]

They weren't real queens though, even though they called them that. I'm not sure what the reason for calling an obvious President of a Republic a Queen, but I guess Lucas just thought it'd sound cooler.

[Matt]

Your opinion and you are wrong. Critics liked it and it was a huge success. It wasn't perfect, but it was damn good. And the reason he turned? Absolutely understandable, but the point of the movie was that it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you study tragedy, you'd see exactly where it came from. ROTS is basically Othello.

Knock off the condescending attitude, Kurosawa.

The user Kurosawa said James Cameron movies arent that great yet Star Wars Prequels rule and are flawless. (LOL). He loses all credibility and I'm going to stop reading his posts. He must be very young or just has bad taste in films.

TPM was bad, you can't take it serious as a film. You have to leave your brain or even star wars brain at the door because it doesn't make much sense. Darth Maul was a great as an absolute, the cast was great, but story / characters, the backbone of a film was garbage. AOTC just had such bad scenes and dialogue, it made a lot of people cringe.

You too.

[CelticPredator]

That was one of the things that drove me crazy about ROTS - that was how he turned to the dark side? It made no sense.

Nah, the kid was a psycho path. No sane human would ever say "No...heh...no, it's because i'm so in love with you...":whatever:

[GhostPoet]

I think Lucas biggest mistake when it came to writing the prequels was the Dark Side being so under-used. Here we had a perfect opportunity to reveal much more about Dark Jedi who existed during this time that the Sith were almost gone. That side story could have helped propel Anakin into the Dark Side in a much more convincing way.

[Sloth7d]

Nah, the kid was a psycho path. No sane human would ever say "No...heh...no, it's because i'm so in love with you...":whatever:

"Then love has blinded you?" [insert serious face here]

[Deaths Head II]

Man, Anakin/Padme was one of the creepiest on-screen couples ever.

[Sloth7d]

THE creepiest. Tied with Bella and Edward.

[Kurosawa]

Lucas said he based their romance on the romances of the movies from the 30's and 40's. If you watch those old movies...sometimes they come off pretty weird by today's standards. Plus, look where they ended up-he ended up a ruthless villain, she ended up giving up on life-it's not like they were people who really had their **** together.

[SchumacherFan]

Anakin and Padme's love must have blinded everyone in the audience as well, because I couldn't see a good movie in that screen.

[VenomVsSpidey]

Anakin and Padme's love must have blinded everyone in the audience as well, because I couldn't see a good movie in that screen.

yeah, but you want robert pattinson as anakin, soo....

[Kurosawa]

Anakin and Padme's love must have blinded everyone in the audience as well, because I couldn't see a good movie in that screen.

Yeah, apparently it didn't blind you to your man crush on Robert Pattinson.

[DarknessOfDeath]

hahaha. Thats hilarious. Bella/Edward + Anakin/Padme = creepy. Both 'love' stories came off awkwardly.

Right now, I am reading the X-wing series and I am on the second book known as Wedge's Gamble. I wish I hadn't pawned my copy of the series back in the day but I needed the extra cash. After getting back into the series, I've forgotten how effing great the series is and I absolutely love the love-hate relationship between Corran Horn and Mirax Booster. I love to see how these two develop on screen someday but I don't think it'll happen. I mean...it is EU after all but gawd, the two of em work well and are made for each other.

It reminds me a bit of Han Solo's and Senator Leia Organa's relationship but Corran and Mirax's is a lot more interesting as their relationship unfolds throughout the x-wing series.

I think if Lucas added or changed something in the relationship between Anakin and Padme, it would have been less awkward and dull. Even yet, if he came up with a better way of them meeting and then ending up together it would have worked out.

The only way it would have worked if there was more backstory of Anakin and Amidala. I think with the information provided it would have help the viewers understand the characters and as the story/plot progresses, the more they learn who they are and why they do what they do. As well as how they handle life-alternate decisions and blah blah blah.

Its like with Han Solo. Who would have thought a smuggler with a price on his head would end up joining the Rebellion and becoming a General. Not only that but he made a few decisions that changed his life. It all started when he first met Obi wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker who hired him to take them to Alderaan. At first, I wasn't too sure about Han but despite having to pay off old debts I don't think he wanted to leave Luke behind but in the end, you gotta do what you gotta do. Solo gained my respect when he flew the Falcon with Chewie and helped Luke destroy the first death star. I felt that what he did was right in coming back to help save the day. He just couldn't let his friends be sitting duck but right through Empire and to the end of Jedi, I think we all knew where Han's place truely was meant to be. He came a long way from the day we knew him as a smuggler and now a member of the New Republic but he made it through alright. Heck, he found Leia and fell in love with her and look how that part of the story turned out.

I guess what I am saying is that it takes a lot for someone to go through obsticles in their life time and in the end, they become a different but even better person. It is all because of the friends you make, the one woman (or women) you fall in love with, and the choices that you make can reflect on your own individuality as a human being. And for others to view you in a whole new light. It works but the outcome may not be the same for others...ahem...from a certain point of view.

Han did change a lot throughout the original trilogy but he is still the Han Solo we all come to love and if it weren't for his heroic deeds, Luke and Leia wouldn't have been alive if the death star blew up Yavin. His actions by deciding to go back to aid Luke really made a difference.

Hmm Its all about character progression. To get that character from point A to point B, you gotta start from the beginning and work your way to the 'end'.

Okay.. I am done babbling. hehe.

[DawnWarrior]

^You're right about character progression, Dark. Reminds me of a section from Plinkett's review talking about protagonists:
So in addition to being an everyday kinda shlub, usually the protagonist is someone that's down on their luck, in a bad place in their lives, or somewhere where everything just doesn't always go perfectly for them. Eventually they'll be confronted with some kinda obstacle or struggle that they gotta deal with. If we like them, we hope they succeed. The drama in the film is the result of us rooting for them against opposition. Eventually our protagonist will find themselves at the lowest point where it seems like all is lost. But eventually they'll pull through and conquer whatever force opposes them. It's satisfying when our hero gets ahead from where they started off at. They make like a change. This is called an "arc." Often too, they'll get the girl in the end as icing on the cake.

[Grievous]

The only thing I would change would be Grievous coming in the second movie and having more screen time. Kill some Jedi and have a better death, everything else I'm fine with the way it turned out.

[VenomVsSpidey]

has anyone read the prequel to Episode III? something...labriynth...i think it's labriynth of evil(?)..I have it somewhere...It gave grevious more screen time...only, not technically on-screen.

[CelticPredator]

Yes. And its not screen time.

The only GG that exists is the 2D Clone Wars cartoon's version.

[bullets]

The only thing I would change would be Grievous coming in the second movie and having more screen time. Kill some Jedi and have a better death, everything else I'm fine with the way it turned out.


It would of been cool if he had some sort of backstory shown. The end of AOTC could of definately used him as well.

[I'm Old Greg]

i was looking forward to the clone wars in the prequels...

i thought it was going to be an entire army of Boba fett's Mandolorian armor. Not clone trooper:dry:

I thought it was going to be a giant war the jedi against the Mandolorians and the jedi lose the clone war and Anikan helped to kill the Jedi, because he was the most powerful one of them all.

I also thought that the dark side of the force made you age more rapidily. You had extreme power but it took a tole on your body..

I was shocked, let down and disappointed that none of the above happened or was further explained.

[Bim]

if someday all 3 prequels get remade and i hope they dont because what else could be added that we dont know by now ... i hope that director or studio leaves the senate and politics the 3 movies had at the door. in my eyes the senate talk and politic scenes are what made these movies boring. there was adventure but too much senate/cnn scenes for my taste.

Who cares about government in a "galaxy". I believe george didnt think that little nugget through all the way while writing. I mean there was atleast 20 planets in this galaxy and some how there is a one giant government for all them? and some planets had kings and queens so why would they report to a sente? stuff like that is what drove me nutz because i knew that stuff was pointless overall. everytime i try to sort out the plotholes in these movies i feel like :wall:
I care about goverment in a galaxy actually :cwink:. I really enjoyed the political aspect of the PT, maybe because i was so interested in seeing how Palpatine came to power, how the Republic became an Empire and how Palps became Emperor. I dont think he could have left this out to be honest. For me personally, the story would have felt incomplete.

[marvelman2006]

I care about goverment in a galaxy actually :cwink:. I really enjoyed the political aspect of the PT, maybe because i was so interested in seeing how Palpatine came to power, how the Republic became an Empire and how Palps became Emperor. I dont think he could have left this out to be honest. For me personally, the story would have felt incomplete.


It might have been interesting with another directors take but not george's, maybe it was the wooden dialogue but i could have done without it. I could live with a few scenes in tpm and rots but there was way too much time spent in all 3. but think about it..... would all those planets really have one giant government? also why have a government if planets like tatooine and others wouldnt be a part of it? just none of it made sense. again when i try to dissect these 3 films i :wall:

I just wish so much stuff was different from what was on screen. one day I will create a time machine and take my ideas back to 1996.

[Kurosawa]

i was looking forward to the clone wars in the prequels...

i thought it was going to be an entire army of Boba fett's Mandolorian armor. Not clone trooper:dry:

I thought it was going to be a giant war the jedi against the Mandolorians and the jedi lose the clone war and Anikan helped to kill the Jedi, because he was the most powerful one of them all.

I also thought that the dark side of the force made you age more rapidily. You had extreme power but it took a tole on your body..

I was shocked, let down and disappointed that none of the above happened or was further explained.

Well, I thought it was going to be like Excalibur in outer space, so I think projecting what you wanted it to be is unrealistic, especially if you expected anything from the EU.

It might have been interesting with another directors take but not george's, maybe it was the wooden dialogue but i could have done without it. I could live with a few scenes in tpm and rots but there was way too much time spent in all 3. but think about it..... would all those planets really have one giant government? also why have a government if planets like tatooine and others wouldnt be a part of it? just none of it made sense. again when i try to dissect these 3 films i :wall:

I just wish so much stuff was different from what was on screen. one day I will create a time machine and take my ideas back to 1996.

The idea that one giant government ruled most of the planets goes back to the OT, however. So that's not a PT issue, not really.

I feel that unless it is the story that Lucas created that it is basically fan fiction. He needed some script help, although I don't hear a ton of complaints about Obi-Wan's dialogue and to be honest with the wrong actor Luke wouldn't have worked either. So I don't advocate major changes, but obviously there were badly cast actors and a lot (almost all) of Anakin's dialogue needs rewritten. And having your main character not work is a huge, huge problem.

[Evil Twin]

One of the things that I come back to, is that Anakin is introduced too young and all the way in Act II of The Phantom Menace. I'd suggest starting the film with a teenage Anakin encountering an on the run Padme and Obi-Wan on Tattooine and go from there. Perhaps by helping save them from Darth Maul, and perhaps tossing in an early chase scene to get teh show on the road. In the long run, how much did Act I of The Phantom Menace really matter?

[Kurosawa]

One of the things that I come back to, is that Anakin is introduced too young and all the way in Act II of The Phantom Menace. I'd suggest starting the film with a teenage Anakin encountering an on the run Padme and Obi-Wan on Tattooine and go from there. Perhaps by helping save them from Darth Maul, and perhaps tossing in an early chase scene to get teh show on the road. In the long run, how much did Act I of The Phantom Menace really matter?

To me that takes it too far away from Lucas intentions and therefore not authentic. I don't completely agree with the idea of Anakin being so young, but that's what he wanted the story to be.

I feel a fair rewrite is telling the same story...but telling it better. Otherwise it's not the real story.

[danoyse]

I feel that unless it is the story that Lucas created that it is basically fan fiction. He needed some script help, although I don't hear a ton of complaints about Obi-Wan's dialogue and to be honest with the wrong actor Luke wouldn't have worked either. So I don't advocate major changes, but obviously there were badly cast actors and a lot (almost all) of Anakin's dialogue needs rewritten. And having your main character not work is a huge, huge problem.

I used to think that too - that this was Lucas' galaxy and he should be the one writing everything. But that's not true. There have been terrific SW authors, and the Clone Wars series from what I've seen it, and there's even been some terrific fan stuff. And I think a lot of them could have written much better Star Wars prequels than he did.

I'm a huge SW fan, it was the first movie I ever saw (and I saw in 1977 too) and I've never thrown a fan tantrum over the prequels, even though they were disappointing. Visually I thought they were outstanding, and they did have some really good performances (McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson).

But I think if someone else had been given a shot at them, it would have interesting to see how that would have worked out. It's not anyone is taking SW away from Lucas, it's just that I think he understand that universe better than he can write for it.

[DarknessOfDeath]

I agree with everything that has been said on this page.

[Kurosawa]

I used to think that too - that this was Lucas' galaxy and he should be the one writing everything. But that's not true. There have been terrific SW authors, and the Clone Wars series from what I've seen it, and there's even been some terrific fan stuff. And I think a lot of them could have written much better Star Wars prequels than he did.

I'm a huge SW fan, it was the first movie I ever saw (and I saw in 1977 too) and I've never thrown a fan tantrum over the prequels, even though they were disappointing. Visually I thought they were outstanding, and they did have some really good performances (McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson).

But I think if someone else had been given a shot at them, it would have interesting to see how that would have worked out. It's not anyone is taking SW away from Lucas, it's just that I think he understand that universe better than he can write for it.

I don't see it that way completely although I agree that he needs outside help. The Clone Wars series is more of what the prequels should have been, with him overseeing the operation but with outside writers.

[DarknessOfDeath]

I may get the Clone War series Season 1 on DVD. Its expensive. :( I've watched a few episodes of Season 2 and all I can say is that they're not bad...but on the other hand I can't really judge it all by much cause I haven't seen everything from Season 1 and right through season 2. Will it have another season? I did a bit of research on the guy who did the voice work for Anakin and from what I have heard as I watched some episodes, he is good.

Though it made me wonder what if he played the character in the films but then I thought...hmm perhaps but in a way he reminds me of Anakin Solo.

[DarknessOfDeath]

AAH!! double post :(

[I'm Old Greg]

Well, I thought it was going to be like Excalibur in outer space, so I think projecting what you wanted it to be is unrealistic, especially if you expected anything from the EU.

the thing is though i was told that by my cousin when I was a kid watching the OT
He read all the novels and stuff.
What he told me sounded kickass:dry:

[DarknessOfDeath]

The EU isn;t as bad but I have my gripes about that universe when it comes to which character bites the dust. I like to think that part of the New Jedi Order series never happened. I liked it but I wasn;t happy with the way things were leading into. I never read the legacy series but I get the jest of what goes on in it. meh...

[Deaths Head II]

I don't really pay attention to the EU. At least nothing that happens after Return of the Jedi. I think the movie ended it fine and the stuff I read that continued after that felt very uninspired. Cloning the Emperor? Really?

[DarknessOfDeath]

Thats why I don't read EU comics. The EU books are better I find. Some are written better than others and not every book will be well liked. The Thrawn Trilogy written by Timothy Zhan is the best. It was made into a comic novel adaptation too but book is better. I don't pay too much attention to every EU novel out there but the recent ones I have no interest in. Maybe one day but naw... I like the good ol novels with the characters I know and love.

[Bim]

I may get the Clone War series Season 1 on DVD. Its expensive. :( I've watched a few episodes of Season 2 and all I can say is that they're not bad...but on the other hand I can't really judge it all by much cause I haven't seen everything from Season 1 and right through season 2. Will it have another season?
From what i've heard, they plan on doing at least 100 episodes of it. Season 1 was was very cool, specially towards the end. The Ryloth episodes are my favorite ones. This season my favorite episode is one called Landing at Point Rain. I recommend it :yay:

I'm torn about EU. There's some cool books out there, but there's stuff that makes me want to pull my hair out aswell. I agree with Deaths Head II: cloning the Emperor was lame.

[antsman41]

I used to think that too - that this was Lucas' galaxy and he should be the one writing everything. But that's not true. There have been terrific SW authors, and the Clone Wars series from what I've seen it, and there's even been some terrific fan stuff. And I think a lot of them could have written much better Star Wars prequels than he did.

I'm a huge SW fan, it was the first movie I ever saw (and I saw in 1977 too) and I've never thrown a fan tantrum over the prequels, even though they were disappointing. Visually I thought they were outstanding, and they did have some really good performances (McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson).

But I think if someone else had been given a shot at them, it would have interesting to see how that would have worked out. It's not anyone is taking SW away from Lucas, it's just that I think he understand that universe better than he can write for it.

What should have been the most pleasing and probably had worked the best was have a outline by George for the prequels, than have 1 or 2 of the top EU writers come in, write scripts than go over with George and find the best way to portray his ideas without him fuddling it up with his comedy/ cheese... And also have a director for all three or a director/film to have each film have strengths in their individual themes and moods like the OT with only George as a right-hand man per say...

[Matt]

EU writers should've had nothing to do with the prequels. What works in a book doesn't work on film. They ought to have gone with REAL screenwriters.

[Rain Dog]

What should have been the most pleasing and probably had worked the best was have a outline by George for the prequels, than have 1 or 2 of the top EU writers come in, write scripts than go over with George and find the best way to portray his ideas without him fuddling it up with his comedy/ cheese... And also have a director for all three or a director/film to have each film have strengths in their individual themes and moods like the OT with only George as a right-hand man per say...

I agree, though the writers wouldn't have to be EU writers, just skilled screenwriters. Maybe have Lawence Kasdan come back if he was still working.

[I'm Old Greg]

how Lucas didn't have Kasdan back? I remember reading about that when PM was being released and people were weary about it

[Rain Dog]

I guess because he wanted total control over the project. That or Kasdan was no longer active (I'm not sure if he's still working or not). Lucas is a good story man but as a director and writer he is lacking. ESB and ROTJ were written and directed by other people and they were the best of the OT. That's tellin' you something.

[I'm Old Greg]

he's working I was on his IMDB page.
David Koep is a horrible writer i don't know why Lucas and Speilberg work with that screen writer.

[DarknessOfDeath]

So.... now what do we do? As much as I loved the SW franchise, I am not as interested in it as I used to be over the years. So I guess that means I just like it because it is what it is. There's not much to really look forward to is there. I mean besides the games and the books and the tv shows. I dunno.

[SchumacherFan]

he's working I was on his IMDB page.
David Koep is a horrible writer i don't know why Lucas and Speilberg work with that screen writer.

The writer of Jurassic Park, Spider-Man and Carlito's Way ?

He's awesome...

[I'm Old Greg]

The writer of Jurassic Park, Spider-Man and Carlito's Way ?

He's awesome...

first off michael chriton wrote the first jurassic park screen play and david koep helped since he's a screen writer.

Spider Man sucked. Peter Parker isn't supposed to be a freaking Cry baby sissy and Marry Jane isn't supposed to be a drag.

Go to David Koepps imdb page you will see notable flicks like

Secret Window...
the lost world jurassic park
war of the worlds
Zathura
Indiana Jones the kingdom of the Crystal skull
:doh:

[Sloth7d]

But... I liked all those movies...

[I'm Old Greg]

:doh:

[DarknessOfDeath]

Ouch...

[Octoberist]

there's nothing wrong with liking Spider-Man though.

[Sloth7d]

:doh:

:whatever:

[Octoberist]

don't worry about him. he's a geezer!

[Sloth7d]

Edit:^Oh.

there's nothing wrong with liking Spider-Man though.

None of those films are without their flaws, no film is, though uncertian I am about Zathura (haven't seen that); continuing on, I do feel that they have far more redeeming qualities than negative aspects or the few redeeming qualities they have make up for some negative aspects.

[Octoberist]

exactly. I really thought that Spider-Man 1 had certain limitations because it didn't have a template to work with besides X-Men and Donner's Superman/Burton's Batman.

The script was all over the map, but the tone and the acting saved it. Probably the worst thing about the film was Green Goblin's costume. I don't mind if the mask was a helmet, but looking at it now, it looks cheap.

[Sloth7d]

You mean how he looks more like an Ironman villain than a Spider-man one? I know what you mean. Foreshadowing maybe?...

[Octoberist]

haha.

It just looked uninspired. I saw the art designs for Goblin the 'art of Spider-man' and they were ten times better than what we got.

I think that Sony probably thought that the character shouldn't be 'scary'. But when you look at The Joker and Two-Face from The Dark Knight (I know it's darker but it's still the same genre), it shows how far we come since then. It makes me wonder how Goblin would like if they did Spider-Man now (in a weird alt reality)

[Kurosawa]

I guess because he wanted total control over the project. That or Kasdan was no longer active (I'm not sure if he's still working or not). Lucas is a good story man but as a director and writer he is lacking. ESB and ROTJ were written and directed by other people and they were the best of the OT. That's tellin' you something.

ANH is by far the best of the OT, IMO.

Kasdan apparently had something to do with the script for the Clash of the Titans remake. The last sci-fi/horror movie he was involved with was 2003's Dreamcatcher, which is one of the most god-awful movies I've ever seen...it doesn't just make the PT look good compared to it, it makes the Star Wars Holiday Special look good compared to it.

[I'm Old Greg]

don't worry about him. he's a geezer!

No
"I'm OOLLLD GREGGG, want to see my down stairs mix up?":oldrazz:

[CelticPredator]

"Ever drink Bailey's from a shoe?"

Also, I think ANH is the weakest for me. However, it might just be the shoddyness of it due to the horrid SE. I want to see the original again, because I dont think it's fair to judge a ruined movie.

[I'm Old Greg]

"want to see my water colors?"

I like a new hope but It drags a bit and they pronounce Lea's name wrong it in it ;) Empire is my favorite though. Jedi has great moments that out way it's bad moments. But now I notice more how Han seems a bit different ever since thawing out of the carbonite.
Empire worked best as a film though capturing what Star Wars is.
ANH was a great intro that seemed to be getting there, Empire brought it all together and Jedi seemed a bit confused at times but ended well..

I remember when Lucas said he didn't care what the fans wanted and would never release the OT with out all the special edition stuff...glad i waited for it. Money talks bullcrap walks

[Kurosawa]

"Ever drink Bailey's from a shoe?"

Also, I think ANH is the weakest for me. However, it might just be the shoddyness of it due to the horrid SE. I want to see the original again, because I dont think it's fair to judge a ruined movie.

Speaking as a person who saw the original "Star Wars" minus the "A New Hope" title in 1977, I don't find the later version ruined, although I admit I hate the cantina change.

I think there are Star Wars fans and ESB fans and I don't think they are mutually the same audience. I've seen a lot of people who find ANH "meh", dislike Jedi, hate the PT but love ESB.

ANH will always be my favorite. It's my favorite movie period, actually. It's also the only SW movie in my top ten.

[I'm Old Greg]

yeah ^ i liked how the Catina was a rough scary bar in the OT
I like all the original Trilogy thats such an epic scene with Luke looking out at his dead aunt and uncle.
and I liked how it ended so heart warming at the end of jedi.

[CelticPredator]

I hate how theres new **** thrown inside in every scene. And that Jabba scene is crap.

[I'm Old Greg]

yeah i completely hate the new song in Jabas palace...:dry:

[I'm Old Greg]

yeah i completely hate the new song in Jabas palace...with that singing cgi Thing:dry:

[CelticPredator]

"It's attached to yer rod mutha licka!"

[Kurosawa]

I hate how theres new **** thrown inside in every scene. And that Jabba scene is crap.

It's not EVERY scene. I could give or take the Jabba scene. If it is crap then it was crap when it was first shot in 1976 too.

yeah i completely hate the new song in Jabas palace...with that singing cgi Thing:dry:

I didn't like the old song, or the new song either. The old song was like disco...both were lame. The music at the end DESTROYED the old Ewok song though.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The original song in Jabba's palace is titled "Lapti Nek." The song was originally recorded in English under the title "Fancy Man," and was translated into Huttese by Ben Burtt.

[CelticPredator]

Well, the scene isnt crap, but the godawful CGI was horrible. Its so piss poor.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I always found that Boba Fett being added into that scene was Lucas' way of saying, "Look! Isn't CGI awesome?!"

[Kurosawa]

The original song in Jabba's palace is titled "Lapti Nek." The song was originally recorded in English under the title "Fancy Man," and was translated into Huttese by Ben Burtt.

Yeah, I know.

Well, the scene isnt crap, but the godawful CGI was horrible. Its so piss poor.

The 2004 CGI is better, hopefully the blu-ray version is better yet.

I always found that Boba Fett being added into that scene was Lucas' way of saying, "Look! Isn't CGI awesome?!"

Even though it wasn't CGI but just a guy in the costume?

[CelticPredator]

He added it via CGI.

[I'm Old Greg]

"It's attached to yer rod mutha licka!"

"do you want to go to a club where people wee on eachother?"

[Infinity9999x]

haha.

It just looked uninspired. I saw the art designs for Goblin the 'art of Spider-man' and they were ten times better than what we got.

I think that Sony probably thought that the character shouldn't be 'scary'. But when you look at The Joker and Two-Face from The Dark Knight (I know it's darker but it's still the same genre), it shows how far we come since then. It makes me wonder how Goblin would like if they did Spider-Man now (in a weird alt reality)

The original design for the GG suit was awesome.
Goblin original (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejimtheviking/_uimages/goblin7.4PLowRes.jpg)

They had to work it down due to budget restraints though. Which is a shame, because that costume would have been sweet to see. I like the fact that it looks like the face is actually a moveable mask.

[Kurosawa]

He added it via CGI.

Still don't see it as a big deal one way or another...he added a character to a scene that was cut anyway.

[CelticPredator]

I didnt say anything about it.



"You playin your love games?"

[Rain Dog]

I always found that Boba Fett being added into that scene was Lucas' way of saying, "Look! Isn't CGI awesome?!"

Yeah I always kinda felt that...in fact, the entire scene seemed unnecessary. The everything about Jabba contradicted what we saw in ROTJ (I know there's a crappy EU explanation for it, but I don't buy it).

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

We also already understand that Han is in debt. We didn't need a whole 'nother scene that tells us the same thing we heard 90 seconds earlier.

[KnightBat]

according to IMDB, Lucas did ask Kasdan to write TPM but he turned him down. Unfortunate if true.

George Lucas asked Lawrence Kasdan to write the script (and possibly for Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002) and Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) as well), but he turned it down because he thought with Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980) and Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983), Lucas's relationship to the movies had taken one step back and that he alone should take responsibility and make exactly the movie he wanted to make.

[CelticPredator]

Ha.....that sucks. :(

[I'm Old Greg]

oh i remember he turned it down because Lucas shot down all his ideas. Kasdan thought it would be a bad idea for Anikan to be a kid. I remember how Kasdan seemed annoyed and just told him to do it by himself than.

[Rain Dog]

oh i remember he turned it down because Lucas shot down all his ideas. Kasdan thought it would be a bad idea for Anikan to be a kid. I remember how Kasdan seemed annoyed and just told him to do it by himself than.

LOL if that's true. Sounds like Kasdan knows what he's talking about.

[CelticPredator]

Indeed.

[Kurosawa]

Yeah I always kinda felt that...in fact, the entire scene seemed unnecessary. The everything about Jabba contradicted what we saw in ROTJ (I know there's a crappy EU explanation for it, but I don't buy it).

How did it contradict ROTJ?

We also already understand that Han is in debt. We didn't need a whole 'nother scene that tells us the same thing we heard 90 seconds earlier.

Yea, the two scenes had almost the same dialogue. I wish he would have added the Biggs scene instead, it actually had content that was not in another scene. Although it clashed with the dinner scene a little.

[Kurosawa]

according to IMDB, Lucas did ask Kasdan to write TPM but he turned him down. Unfortunate if true.

George Lucas asked Lawrence Kasdan to write the script (and possibly for Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002) and Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) as well), but he turned it down because he thought with Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980) and Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983), Lucas's relationship to the movies had taken one step back and that he alone should take responsibility and make exactly the movie he wanted to make.

Yeah instead he wrote and directed Dreamcatcher which is one of the worst movies ever made, way worse than the PT, worse than the Holiday Special, worse than House of the Dead...just unwatchable on any level.

Not that Lucas didn't need help. I do see his logic in making Anakin so young, however.

[bullets]

oh i remember he turned it down because Lucas shot down all his ideas. Kasdan thought it would be a bad idea for Anikan to be a kid. I remember how Kasdan seemed annoyed and just told him to do it by himself than.


This is truly upsetting . I've accepted the prequels for what they are but i would of rather seen anakin starting in jedi academy ( episode 1) jedi knight in episode 2 and 3

[Rain Dog]

How did it contradict ROTJ?

For one they looked different-ROTJ Jabba was much larger and the special edition Jabba initially didn't even resemble the ROTJ Jabba although this was fixed in the DVD release.

But I'd say the major and more important change was characterization--the special edition Jabba was very forgiving and friendly (he called Han "his boy", he let Han literally walk all over him) whereas the ROTJ Jabba was more of a cut-throat sadist.

I am aware why these two Jabbas are diffrent. The ANH one still has the dialogue and personality of the fat Irish dude who was originally supposed to play Jabba. But if the character underwent such a drastic change, was putting this scene back into the movie necessary if it just goes against what we see in ROTJ?

Not too mention that the scene is redundant, as someone said before, because it just tells us what we already know (Han is in debt, has a bounty on his head)

[Kurosawa]

They started it with him as a kid because Lucas wanted his separation from his mother and her subsequent death to be a big part of his fall. He felt at 9 a boy still had enough dependency and attachments to their mother that leaving them would cause issues. I don't know that I agree with his reasoning, but I see where he's coming from. I would have had Padme younger in that case...guys still get motherly attachments to girls even if they are the same age.

[Kurosawa]

For one they looked different-ROTJ Jabba was much larger and the special edition Jabba initially didn't even resemble the ROTJ Jabba although this was fixed in the DVD release.

But I'd say the major and more important change was characterization--the special edition Jabba was very forgiving and friendly (he called Han "his boy", he let Han literally walk all over him) whereas the ROTJ Jabba was more of a cut-throat sadist.

I am aware why these two Jabbas are diffrent. The ANH one still has the dialogue and personality of the fat Irish dude who was originally supposed to play Jabba. But if the character underwent such a drastic change, was putting this scene back into the movie necessary if it just goes against what we see in ROTJ?

Not too mention that the scene is redundant, as someone said before, because it just tells us what we already know (Han is in debt, has a bounty on his head)

The visual differences are minor, he's still recognizable as Jabba. As for the attitude, well I guess he wasn't quite fed up with Han yet. Kinda makes his side of the deal seem a bit more reasonable. As I've said, I can take or leave that scene, it's not a major issue either way to me. It's a fun extra at the most.

[I'm Old Greg]

lmao i think the only movies that warrant a remake are the prequels:oldrazz:

[Kurosawa]

lmao i think the only movies that warrant a remake are the prequels:oldrazz:

I think AOTC needs a massive reedit. TPM needs a minor reedit, and I'm pretty much okay with ROTS. It'll be interesting to see what the next edits of those three will be and how the hardcore PT fans (yes they exist, check TF.N) will react to changes if they are major.

[Infinity9999x]

I think AOTC needs a massive reedit. TPM needs a minor reedit, and I'm pretty much okay with ROTS. It'll be interesting to see what the next edits of those three will be and how the hardcore PT fans (yes they exist, check TF.N) will react to changes if they are major.

They're actually going to re-edit the prequels?

[Kurosawa]

They're actually going to re-edit the prequels?

I know they are going to replace the TPM Yoda puppet with a CGI Yoda. The rest is all speculative but given Lucas' track record, I'd expect at least some cosmetic changes.

[I'm Old Greg]

"it is possible to destroy these things" -George Lucas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxf1c3fzDOU&feature=related

Best scene cut from PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xizr69B5La4&feature=related

[bullets]

Count Dooku (http://www.moviemistakes.com/name2449): I've been looking forward to this.
Anakin (http://www.moviemistakes.com/name2448): My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.

[VenomVsSpidey]

They're actually going to re-edit the prequels?

probably on fanedit.net

[Kurosawa]

"it is possible to destroy these things" -George Lucas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxf1c3fzDOU&feature=related

The prequels didn't destroy SW. Even if it is just to complain, people talk about them all the time. If it was truly dead then people wouldn't care.

Best scene cut from PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xizr69B5La4&feature=related

Kinda childish.

[VenomVsSpidey]

The prequels didn't destroy SW. Even if it is just to complain, people talk about them all the time. If it was truly dead then people wouldn't care.

:up:

[Crook]

It harmed SW's "credibility" as a film franchise. The universe itself is too big to ever truly go away, but as far as films go, the PT didn't do anyone favors.

[VenomVsSpidey]

It harmed SW's "credibility" as a film franchise. The universe itself is too big to ever truly go away, but as far as films go, the PT didn't do anyone favors.

I got to see a star wars movie in theaters. Did me a huge favor.

[VenomVsSpidey]

double.

[Kurosawa]

It harmed SW's "credibility" as a film franchise. The universe itself is too big to ever truly go away, but as far as films go, the PT didn't do anyone favors.

People would have *****ed about them regardless, IMO. Everyone had their own idea of what they would have/should have been and when it wasn't what they wanted or expected, in came the complaints. Example: I wanted them to be like Boorman's Excalibur except in space.

I wish they were better written and acted, but even with their flaws, people still care about them, even if it's in a bad way. Indifference is worse. ST: Nemesis is worse than the prequels, because no one cared.

[Sloth7d]

The prequels didn't destroy SW. Even if it is just to complain, people talk about them all the time. If it was truly dead then people wouldn't care.


That logic does not follow. Hate begats what was once loved. Indifference follows what was never cherrished in the first place. That they still complain can show that the SW franchise was really special to them once a time.
Though, I agree that the prequels only destroyed the entire franchise as much as you allow it. I don't like it, so when viewing the originals I keep of the mind as if they're a non-canon "what if". I would hope anyone who can't stand the prequels would separate it from the originals in their minds if it pervades the integrity of them so much.

[SchumacherFan]

In 'A New Hope' - we are introduced to the star wars universe in a classic battle of good versus evil.

In 'The Empire Strikes Back' - we are taken further in the story as Luke learns the true identity of himself and how he ties in this adventure, a dark story where the bad guy wins.

In 'Return of the Jedi' - we learn that Luke's sister has been with him all along. We learn that Bad can be turned back to good through Family.

Now what did we learn in Prequels ? ?

Phantom Menace...Hmmm....Anakin was a slave ? Hmmm... I can't really think of any human emotions we are taken through in this particular story. Padme...Hmmm...Nothing there...Qui Gon finds a powerful Jedi, not really any emotion anywhere in it. You kind would have the same story if a guy finds a Babe Ruth rookie card.

Attack of the Clones ...errr...This is getting difficult. We learn that Anakin wants to save his mother.....I guess that makes a good story, but did we really get the emotional feel of it ? ? I didn't. It was like 15 minute long subplot that just kind of ended.

Revenge of the Sith - We learned that.......that.........hmmm.....I guess Anakin wants more power to save his wife. It was more emotional than the first two, but not that great itself either. You could have built a powerful story around this subject matter, but George couldn't help himself by throwing looney toone jokes in with R2, more boring politics, a huge 45 opening that we really didn't need and of course more wooden characters like Grevious that went nowhere and didn't mean a thing to the story or to the emotional drive of the film.

I consider Prequels guilty pleasures. They are not good films by any means, I put them next to Transformers, Terminator Salvation, movies like that. There are worse movies out there, like any Uwe Bowl film. But George failed to deliever a 'decent' film. He did deliever a profitable one, but I think the idea was to have a good profitable film which he did not accomplish.

[Kurosawa]

That logic does not follow. Hate begats what was once loved. Indifference follows what was never cherrished in the first place. That they still complain can show that the SW franchise was really special to them once a time.
Though, I agree that the prequels only destroyed the entire franchise as much as you allow it. I don't like it, so when viewing the originals I keep of the mind as if they're a non-canon "what if". I would hope anyone who can't stand the prequels would separate it from the originals in their minds if it pervades the integrity of them so much.

Reasonable people should not allow their dislike of them to go to that level. And I don't really see how you can consider something non-canon if it is written by the series' creator. Now if some outsider had written them, I would agree 100%. But it's his story.

Fidelity to the original creators visions and creators rights are huge issues for me. It's why I support the Siegel and Shuster families in their lawsuits against WB/DC and why I believe Lucas should be allowed to do whatever he wants with his movies and his stories.

[Kurosawa]

In 'A New Hope' - we are introduced to the star wars universe in a classic battle of good versus evil.

In 'The Empire Strikes Back' - we are taken further in the story as Luke learns the true identity of himself and how he ties in this adventure, a dark story where the bad guy wins.

In 'Return of the Jedi' - we learn that Luke's sister has been with him all along. We learn that Bad can be turned back to good through Family.

Now what did we learn in Prequels ? ?

Phantom Menace...Hmmm....Anakin was a slave ? Hmmm... I can't really think of any human emotions we are taken through in this particular story. Padme...Hmmm...Nothing there...Qui Gon finds a powerful Jedi, not really any emotion anywhere in it. You kind would have the same story if a guy finds a Babe Ruth rookie card.

Attack of the Clones ...errr...This is getting difficult. We learn that Anakin wants to save his mother.....I guess that makes a good story, but did we really get the emotional feel of it ? ? I didn't. It was like 15 minute long subplot that just kind of ended.

Revenge of the Sith - We learned that.......that.........hmmm.....I guess Anakin wants more power to save his wife. It was more emotional than the first two, but not that great itself either. You could have built a powerful story around this subject matter, but George couldn't help himself by throwing looney toone jokes in with R2, more boring politics, a huge 45 opening that we really didn't need and of course more wooden characters like Grevious that went nowhere and didn't mean a thing to the story or to the emotional drive of the film.

I consider Prequels guilty pleasures. They are not good films by any means, I put them next to Transformers, Terminator Salvation, movies like that. There are worse movies out there, like any Uwe Bowl film. But George failed to deliever a 'decent' film. He did deliever a profitable one, but I think the idea was to have a good profitable film which he did not accomplish.

I couldn't disagree more. Just because you didn't feel anything from them doesn't mean everyone feels that way.

[Sloth7d]

Reasonable people should not allow their dislike of them to go to that level. And I don't really see how you can consider something non-canon if it is written by the series' creator. Now if some outsider had written them, I would agree 100%. But it's his story.

I agree to some extent because there are ways of remedying that dislike.

As a writer it is Lucas' job to convince us these chain of events occurred this way and only as this. It is the writers job to illusion and persuade the audience into accepting the story as valid. To this, he failed to convince for me. For me those three movies don't add up with the originals and furthermore are so bad that they would only bring the entire series down as a whole.
That they ARE canon does not matter since Lucas did not convince me that they are.

Fidelity to the original creators visions and creators rights are huge issues for me. It's why I support the Siegel and Shuster families in their lawsuits against WB/DC and why I believe Lucas should be allowed to do whatever he wants with his movies and his stories.

Not sure what this has to do with anything.

I didn't say he shouldn't be allowed that. Doesn't mean I will accept or like what he churns out the noggin of his.

[Kurosawa]

I agree to some extent because there are ways of remedying that dislike.

As a writer it is Lucas' job to convince us these chain of events occurred this way and only as this. It is the writers job to illusion and persuade the audience into accepting the story as valid. To this, he failed to convince for me. For me those three movies don't add up with the originals and furthermore are so bad that they would only bring the entire series down as a whole.
That they ARE canon does not matter since Lucas did not convince me that they are.



Not sure what this has to do with anything.

I didn't say he shouldn't be allowed that. Doesn't mean I will accept or like what he churns out the noggin of his.

I really can't follow the logic here.

[Sloth7d]

I really can't follow the logic here.

Then tell me, is it not the writer's job to convince the audience?

[VenomVsSpidey]

Than tell me, is it not the writer's job to convince the audience?

but I was convinced that these things happened, therby allowing the fall, and eventual rise, of Anakin Skywalker. so, +1 for lucas.

[Sloth7d]

but I was convinced that these things happened, therby allowing the fall, and eventual rise, of Anakin Skywalker. so, +1 for lucas.

Yes, but I was not speaking for everyone; only myself.

Edit: Wasn't trying to force any opinions on anyone, only defend my own. Wouldn't do that at all... unless you're a fan of the Bleach manga. They all need to be DICTATED at how bad that mess is.:hehe:

[Kurosawa]

Then tell me, is it not the writer's job to convince the audience?

Of course it is, but I just have a hard time grasping the idea of a story written by the series creator not being accepted as legitimate. I can see it not being liked-and example for me is the manga Crying Freeman. I liked the first few volumes of the series, but once the central character began sleeping with women other than his wife, I really felt disconnected to the romance of the early volumes and stopped enjoying the series. So the writer failed to convince me, but I still of course accepted what was done as canonical to that series, as he was the creator of it.

[DawnWarrior]

People would have *****ed about them regardless, IMO. Everyone had their own idea of what they would have/should have been and when it wasn't what they wanted or expected, in came the complaints. Example: I wanted them to be like Boorman's Excalibur except in space.

I wish they were better written and acted, but even with their flaws, people still care about them, even if it's in a bad way. Indifference is worse. ST: Nemesis is worse than the prequels, because no one cared.
That may be true, but it's a straw-man argument. People didn't ***** about them because they weren't perfect or because they weren't what they expected. They ***** about them because they weren't good.

[Sloth7d]

Of course it is, but I just have a hard time grasping the idea of a story written by the series creator not being accepted as legitimate. I can see it not being liked-and example for me is the manga Crying Freeman. I liked the first few volumes of the series, but once the central character began sleeping with women other than his wife, I really felt disconnected to the romance of the early volumes and stopped enjoying the series. So the writer failed to convince me, but I still of course accepted what was done as canonical to that series, as he was the creator of it.

Then it seems he didn't fail to convince you it was canon, but did fail fail to convince you it was good. like I said, among with being bad, the prequels don't add up with the originals for me. Thus Lucas failed to convince me this is the back story to all that's happened. In that sense the prequels are almost as like Schodingers cats where I stand; canon and yet non-canon at the same time.

[danoyse]

Now what did we learn in Prequels ? ?

Phantom Menace...Hmmm....Anakin was a slave ? Hmmm... I can't really think of any human emotions we are taken through in this particular story. Padme...Hmmm...Nothing there...Qui Gon finds a powerful Jedi, not really any emotion anywhere in it. You kind would have the same story if a guy finds a Babe Ruth rookie card.

Attack of the Clones ...errr...This is getting difficult. We learn that Anakin wants to save his mother.....I guess that makes a good story, but did we really get the emotional feel of it ? ? I didn't. It was like 15 minute long subplot that just kind of ended.

Revenge of the Sith - We learned that.......that.........hmmm.....I guess Anakin wants more power to save his wife. It was more emotional than the first two, but not that great itself either. You could have built a powerful story around this subject matter, but George couldn't help himself by throwing looney toone jokes in with R2, more boring politics, a huge 45 opening that we really didn't need and of course more wooden characters like Grevious that went nowhere and didn't mean a thing to the story or to the emotional drive of the film.

I consider Prequels guilty pleasures. They are not good films by any means, I put them next to Transformers, Terminator Salvation, movies like that. There are worse movies out there, like any Uwe Bowl film. But George failed to deliever a 'decent' film. He did deliever a profitable one, but I think the idea was to have a good profitable film which he did not accomplish.

I disagree that there was nothing to learn about the story from the prequels. My problem is that it just wasn't told very well.

In TPM we learned that the Jedi are identified at birth and taken from their families, so they can be raised solely in the Jedi way and not have any kind of emotional attachment to family or home. They saw it as a way to keep them from succumbing to the dark side because they would not be marked by foolish emotional choices - meanwhile the Sith was returning right under their noses.

Meanwhile, Anakin, the most powerful Jedi, is born outside of the republic, where he is raised by his own mother - whom he loves dearly. They are slaves and all they really have that can't be taken from them is each other.

The Jedi ignore the bravery it took a child to leave his mother behind, decided the amount of power he had was a danger, and disregarded him. Their ignorance of him throughout the years played right in Palpatine's manipulative ways.

The irony was that they thought his compassion would be their undoing, when in the end it was his compassion for his son that saved them all.

But it just wasn't told very well. The kid wasn't much of an actor. They should have progressed to his teenage years in the first film, and started building his relationship with Obi-Wan right there. From the OT, I thought they were like brothers. In the PT, it's like they barely knew each other. Anakin was supposedly the best star pilot in the galaxy, but we only saw him (intentionally) fight a space battle once. The scenes between him and Padme in all of the prequels were nice to watch but painful to listen to.

They didn't give him enough reason to believe that's why he turned to the dark side. I still can't figure out why he turned like that.

I wish we'd learned more about Obi-Wan. I'd rather they kept the storyline from the tie-in books that Owen Lars was really his brother, rather than the awkward "I guess I'm your stepbrother," moment in AOTC, because it just shoehorned those characters in because they had to. It would have given more for his character to do.

In theory, I liked the story of the prequels, it was just all over the place in execution.

[Kurosawa]

That may be true, but it's a straw-man argument. People didn't ***** about them because they weren't perfect or because they weren't what they expected. They ***** about them because they weren't good.

Just because people on the internet have whined about them for years don't mean that they aren't good.

Then it seems he didn't fail to convince you it was canon, but did fail fail to convince you it was good. like I said, among with being bad, the prequels don't add up with the originals for me. Thus Lucas failed to convince me this is the back story to all that's happened. In that sense the prequels are almost as like Schodingers cats where I stand; canon and yet non-canon at the same time.

Actually I like the prequels, ROTS especially, but I do admit their flaws.

[El_Citrus]

In theory, I liked the story of the prequels, it was just all over the place in execution.

This sentence sums up exactly how I feel about the prequels. Fantastic, epic story, but scattered and very poor execution.

[I'm Old Greg]

That logic does not follow. Hate begats what was once loved. Indifference follows what was never cherrished in the first place. That they still complain can show that the SW franchise was really special to them once a time.
Though, I agree that the prequels only destroyed the entire franchise as much as you allow it. I don't like it, so when viewing the originals I keep of the mind as if they're a non-canon "what if". I would hope anyone who can't stand the prequels would separate it from the originals in their minds if it pervades the integrity of them so much.

thats exactly what i do, I just don't even think about the prequels to still enjoy the OT

I said when the Phantom Menace came out that Lucas had to much control...that the reason why Empire was good was because he had a nervous break down and had to step away from star wars and let other people take hold of it...
If he had total control on ANH, Luke would have been a 45 year old man, Han a frog thing, and C3po a personality of a used car salesman...
we would have also had Han say I Love you" instead of I know.

[Kurosawa]

thats exactly what i do, I just don't even think about the prequels to still enjoy the OT

I said when the Phantom Menace came out that Lucas had to much control...that the reason why Empire was good was because he had a nervous break down and had to step away from star wars and let other people take hold of it...
If he had total control on ANH, Luke would have been a 45 year old man, Han a frog thing, and C3po a personality of a used car salesman...
we would have also had Han say I Love you" instead of I know.

Not true at all. Those were all old ideas that were abandoned, not stuff he had to be talked out of.

I guess it is possible that you have to be a depressed wretch to make great art...don't know if I buy that or not.

Still the intense internet hatred of Lucas is pretty insane...when you see people talking about killing the guy, that's crazy.

[I'm Old Greg]

wow people want to kill him?:wow:

what do you mean? I saw it on the biography channel how he had a nervous break down and didn't want to deal with star wars, thats why other people directed them and threw in there own ideas.

its funny in that video how hes showing the guy who played Jar Jar how to walk. I remember people were calling the characters in TPM racist slurs.

[Kurosawa]

wow people want to kill him?:wow:

its funny in that video how hes showing the guy who played Jar Jar how to walk. I remember people were calling the characters in TPM racist slurs.

Yeah, at another board a few years back they had a thread that was just for people who hated the SE and the PT...one guy hated everything except ANH and felt it was stolen from Kurosawa. He said something a few times about going to some car race Lucas was supposed to be at and taking a shot at him...pretty crazy.

[I'm Old Greg]

WOW thats pretty scary crazy how obsessive and protective people get about Star Wars

I saw this..

"
Beyond George Lucas: Writers of the Star Wars Saga

Star Wars is the brainchild of a single man, no doubt. Yet the influences of a handful of other people are continuously underestimated. Even the original film--often considered one of the "purest" examples of the series for the way Lucas almost single-handedly spearheaded it into existence--can arguably have its screenplay attributed directly to many other individuals; in fact, this film may be among the most collaborative of them all. Its immediate two sequels, of course, were shaped enormously by Lawrence Kasdan, in addition to a brief writing stint by Leigh Brackett. And, let us not forget, four more individuals participated in those two films' story conferences: Irvin Kershner, Gary Kurtz, Richard Marquand and Howard Kazanjian. Even on the prequels, we can still look to Jonathan Hales' brief role as the polisher of the much-maligned Attack of the Clones. In this piece we will be examining the lives and influences of these individuals."

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/beyondgeorgelucas.html

[Sloth7d]

Just because people on the internet have whined about them for years don't mean that they aren't good.



Actually I like the prequels, ROTS especially, but I do admit their flaws.

I know that. I was referring to your example Crying Freeman. Though I have to ask, was it just bad or did it also not add up for you.
One other example series I can think of which I treat this way is the ASM comics. Sins Past never happened. As far as I'm concerned when reading back issues, Gwen never had any romantic relationship with Osborn at any point.

[Kurosawa]

I know that. I was referring to your example Crying Freeman. Though I have to ask, was it just bad or did it also not add up for you.
One other example series I can think of which I treat this way is the ASM comics. Sins Past never happened. As far as I'm concerned when reading back issues, Gwen never had any romantic relationship with Osborn at any point.

It just didn't work for me. In American comics I disregard stuff all the time because the characters go through so many writers, very few of them their actual creators at this stage.

[I'm Old Greg]

well the one good thing about the prequels i can say is...the soundtrack.

[Sloth7d]

Oh yeah. I think we all can agree to that.

[I'm Old Greg]

heres the footage of the making of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBjf3I_2fOw&feature=related

its funny you see how shocked Rick Mcullen or whatever his name is, and the editor saying why its crap, and Lucas pulling at his hair after the screening...

And notice how they don't show the fans reaction After the movie was over...haha

[8wid]

I believe that making Anakin a slave was pointless. Because enslaved or not, Anakin still comes from the desolate planet of Tatooine and is just as miserable where he lives. Vader is born because of Anakin's strong, maybe sudden, lust for power and his slow progression towards becoming a Jedi. Just imagine those driving instructors who make sure they have to look over every shoulder more than twice, and then move, and you get a little bit how Obi-Wan is towards instructing Anakin. Frustrating ain't it? Even though the Empire is about 18 years old in ANH, Kenobi still should be an old man when Anakin turns. Now imagine a famous, galactic legend like Palpatine revealing that he can give you a better lesson. Who are you going to choose?

[Matt]

WOW thats pretty scary crazy how obsessive and protective people get about Star Wars

I saw this..

"
Beyond George Lucas: Writers of the Star Wars Saga

Star Wars is the brainchild of a single man, no doubt. Yet the influences of a handful of other people are continuously underestimated. Even the original film--often considered one of the "purest" examples of the series for the way Lucas almost single-handedly spearheaded it into existence--can arguably have its screenplay attributed directly to many other individuals; in fact, this film may be among the most collaborative of them all. Its immediate two sequels, of course, were shaped enormously by Lawrence Kasdan, in addition to a brief writing stint by Leigh Brackett. And, let us not forget, four more individuals participated in those two films' story conferences: Irvin Kershner, Gary Kurtz, Richard Marquand and Howard Kazanjian. Even on the prequels, we can still look to Jonathan Hales' brief role as the polisher of the much-maligned Attack of the Clones. In this piece we will be examining the lives and influences of these individuals."

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/beyondgeorgelucas.html

I always find the whole, "You can't criticize the prequels because its Lucas' creation to do with what he wants!" The idea that Lucas "created," Star Wars is about as accurate as the notion of Bob Kane creating Batman. Lucas had many collaborators just as Kane had Bill Finger. Now the prequels are purely Lucas' for the most part (any collaborators were simply yes-men like Rick McCallum), and as a result there is a HUGE dip in quality.

[DarknessOfDeath]

Kinda sad... I mean even I had a good idea of what might have happened in the prequels but only part of it did...the rest was just "wth?"


Boy, a time machine sure as hell would have come in handy ya think? lols :p

[I'm Old Greg]

like i said.these are the only movies that warrant a remake

[DarknessOfDeath]

Question is... will they ever happen?? I mean once Lucas is gone that is.

[VenomVsSpidey]

like i said.these are the only movies that warrant a remake

...:doh:

[Matt]

Question is... will they ever happen?? I mean once Lucas is gone that is.

Remakes? Probably once his heirs sell off the rights, but not until three sequels are made (though I reckon George will do that in his life time once the money sounds good enough), and then not until the originals are remade :(

[VenomVsSpidey]

these will never be remade, nor should they. you remake these, and you pissoff another set of fans. it's a vicious cycle. those who liked it felt they were fine for what they are, but remaking these are a horrible idea.

[Infinity9999x]

these will never be remade, nor should they. you remake these, and you pissoff another set of fans. it's a vicious cycle. those who liked it felt they were fine for what they are, but remaking these are a horrible idea.

Remaking the original trilogy would be a horrible idea. Remaking the prequels would be a bad idea. But it does have a certain allure. I wouldn't really mind. I wouldn't really care either way to be honest.

However, I will say that there are many other movies that warrant remakes much more then the prequels. Movies that had great ideas but ended up horribly, like Jumper or The Brothers Grim. The prequels aren't amazing to be sure, but they're not horrible. They're still better then most of the crap action movies that are released now a days.

[DarknessOfDeath]

Uh... let me rephrase what I said earlier. Im not asking for myself about whether or not they'd be remade but for those who want a remake of the prequels.

I don't think they'll happen. Its like the rumors of remaking the OT. I put my foot down on that. I grew up with the OT and there is no way they should be remade. Its like what Venmonvsspidy just said.

[VenomVsSpidey]

Remaking the original trilogy would be a horrible idea. Remaking the prequels would be a bad idea. But it does have a certain allure. I wouldn't really mind. I wouldn't really care either way to be honest.

However, I will say that there are many other movies that warrant remakes much more then the prequels. Movies that had great ideas but ended up horribly, like Jumper or The Brothers Grim. The prequels aren't amazing to be sure, but they're not horrible. They're still better then most of the crap action movies that are released now a days.

I agree with what you said, But I'm still against the idea. It's like you said, there is a great allure to remaking the prequels, but even as someone who knows that TMP/AOTC aren't anything amazing, I still like them and this is how I will always see these movies for better or worse.

[Sloth7d]

Remaking the original trilogy would be a horrible idea. Remaking the prequels would be a bad idea. But it does have a certain allure. I wouldn't really mind. I wouldn't really care either way to be honest.

However, I will say that there are many other movies that warrant remakes much more then the prequels. Movies that had great ideas but ended up horribly, like Jumper or The Brothers Grim. The prequels aren't amazing to be sure, but they're not horrible. They're still better then most of the crap action movies that are released now a days.

The Golden freaking Compass.:o

And Surrogates:ninja:

But I was always a fan of not knowing the details of all the older Star Wars characters anyway.

[danoyse]

I always find the whole, "You can't criticize the prequels because its Lucas' creation to do with what he wants!" The idea that Lucas "created," Star Wars is about as accurate as the notion of Bob Kane creating Batman. Lucas had many collaborators just as Kane had Bill Finger. Now the prequels are purely Lucas' for the most part (any collaborators were simply yes-men like Rick McCallum), and as a result there is a HUGE dip in quality.

Exactly. Another example would be Gene Roddenberry. He created Star Trek, but countless writers have come in and done terrific things not just with the original series, but in the spinoffs as well. There's a great quote his assistant gave in an interview about what he said when he was asked about the future of Star Trek was "some day some bright young thing would come along and do it again, bigger and better than he had ever done it. And he wished them well."

I definitely don't want the movies remade, but if someone with the talent of JJ Abrams comes along years from now to do a new Star Wars movie, I'd love to see what he/she could do with it. :up:

[Kurosawa]

I always find the whole, "You can't criticize the prequels because its Lucas' creation to do with what he wants!" The idea that Lucas "created," Star Wars is about as accurate as the notion of Bob Kane creating Batman. Lucas had many collaborators just as Kane had Bill Finger. Now the prequels are purely Lucas' for the most part (any collaborators were simply yes-men like Rick McCallum), and as a result there is a HUGE dip in quality.

I don't see it as being comparable to Batman's creation or even Star Trek at ALL. That's just justifying disregarding the PT because you don't like it. The OT was still basically Lucas' vision.

And I guess part of the reason why I like them is because if most people hate them, then there must be something there.

[danoyse]

I don't see it as being comparable to Batman's creation or even Star Trek at ALL. That's just justifying disregarding the PT because you don't like it. The OT was still basically Lucas' vision.

And I guess part of the reason why I like them is because if most people hate them, then there must be something there.

No, you're not even making sense now. The comparisons are completely valid because they're all examples of other writers can expand on one person's vision. Roddenberry said he wanted someone to do it all over again and make it even better than before - he knew he wouldn't be around forever and knew Star Trek had a future in what others did with it.

I didn't hate the PT, but I found them totally disappointing. I've never reached the tantrum-levels that some fans have been reduced to, but I do wish Lucas had not been the only one calling the shots and it would have been interesting to see what another writer could bring to the series.

[I'm Old Greg]

when did he ever make sense when everything he bases it on was self hatred, doesnt that go against what Yoda says hate leads to anger anger leads to suffering oh god nevermind that doesn't make any sense either/

[Bim]

Remaking the original trilogy would be a horrible idea. Remaking the prequels would be a bad idea. But it does have a certain allure. I wouldn't really mind. I wouldn't really care either way to be honest.

However, I will say that there are many other movies that warrant remakes much more then the prequels. Movies that had great ideas but ended up horribly, like Jumper or The Brothers Grim. The prequels aren't amazing to be sure, but they're not horrible. They're still better then most of the crap action movies that are released now a days.
Remaking the saga gets a big NO from me. Both OT and PT should be left alone. I hope Lucas makes sure that never happens even after he's gone. I'm more open to making other movies set in another time (before the PT specially peaks my interest), but i'm happy with knowing Mark Hamill is the only Luke Skywalker, Harrison is Han and Kenobi is played by Sir Alec and Ewan McGregor. I think i would have a difficult time with other people stepping into those roles.

[RachelDawes]

No remaking of any movies for me. The SW universe is a huge one and they've only scratched the surface of the possible stories that could be told. I'd prefer to see a new trilogy set long before or long after the present series.

[I'm Old Greg]

id pay to see a Shadows of the Empire movie:awesome:

[VenomVsSpidey]

id pay to see a Shadows of the Empire movie:awesome:

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Now Pay meh!!:oldrazz:

[Kurosawa]

No, you're not even making sense now. The comparisons are completely valid because they're all examples of other writers can expand on one person's vision. Roddenberry said he wanted someone to do it all over again and make it even better than before - he knew he wouldn't be around forever and knew Star Trek had a future in what others did with it.

I didn't hate the PT, but I found them totally disappointing. I've never reached the tantrum-levels that some fans have been reduced to, but I do wish Lucas had not been the only one calling the shots and it would have been interesting to see what another writer could bring to the series.

I still don't see it as even close to comparable. Lucas wrote ANH, and ESB and ROTJ were scripted from his plots with his supervision and final approval. It's not like he had DC Fontana writing whole movies like Roddenberry did. It's much more his creation alone than ST is. SW closer to Twilight Zone, where the majority of scripts and general feel was Serling's...he had help but it was HIS thing and without him it wasn't the same.

id pay to see a Shadows of the Empire movie:awesome:

I wish they'd make a CGI Shadows of the Empire movie while Mark and all are still around.

And even if Lucas doesn't do a 6-9, you can bet his kids will. How can they not? It's just too much money. But if it's his kids I won't see it as legit unless it was generated heavily from his ideas/notes.

[I'm Old Greg]

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Now Pay meh!!:oldrazz:

but where was Dash Rendar?:dry:

[VenomVsSpidey]

but where was Dash Rendar?:dry:

we're keeping the actor playing him under complete secrecy:o

[I'm Old Greg]

haha...oh :( (hands over more money)

[VenomVsSpidey]

haha...oh :( (hands over more money)

:hehe:

seriously though, I'd love for a legit SOTE movie. but they'd have to find out which ending to use. wasn't there a different ending for both the game,comic, and novel?

[DarKush]

I am glad he had Maul get owned, and I wish he would have given the modern fan the middle finger with more Jar-Jar. I don't think Lucas has it in him to hate his fans even though they deserve it richly.

Kurosawa, I'm a fan of the prequels too, but at the same time I'm willing to admit they were flawed, even ROTS, which is my third favorite film after ROTJ and ESB (I concede that ESB is the best film, but in terms of enjoyment, ROTJ is first for me. The Vader-Luke battle, the revelation of Leia as Luke's sister, and the Emperor all sold me). I can understand your desire to defend them, but they weren't perfect. In TPM, I was disappointed with Jar Jar. Not only was the character unnecessary, I felt he was offensive and it dampened my enjoyment of the movie. But I decided to let Jar Jar slide because I love the world GL created. I definitely didn't want to see more Jar Jar. I wish that he had gotten killed off, brutally by Dooku, Grevious, or Anakin later in the film. I don't care for the idea of GL being so stubborn that he can't work to satisfy fans on some level, and to some extent he did by reducing Jar Jar's screen time, and ironically by making Jar Jar the instrument Palpatine used to gain emergency powers. I wonder if that was the original idea.

Anyway, I didn't mind Maul dying in TPM like that if his character had been beefed up before. Despite his awesome skills and the great visual I see the limitations of his character. He was all vinegar, no honey. As I wrote before, Dooku/Tyrannus was a better choice to actually lead the Confederacy, and you can't have Maul around. He would be too threatening. Who would want to follow him?

About some of the statements others have made about the EU. I really like the EU, particularly the Dark Horse comics. One thing the comics have over the novels is they are also a visual medium, and its cool to see ships and alien creatures, etc. Next best thing to watching the movies. Also, I think the comics have largely done a better job lately with creating villains and engaging heroes than the post-New Jedi Order novel series, Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi. The Republic comics were awesome. Well drawn and written, with good Clone War action. As for the cloning of Palpatine in Dark Empire, that's just one big story in a sea of EU media out there. The novels are mostly good, particularly the NJO and the Yuuzhan Vong invaders, which was something different for SW. The comic Invasion is set in the NJO timeframe. Also, Admiral Thrawn gets a lot of props though I'm not a big fan. I've only read the first of the Thrawn trilogy so far. The comics Knights of the Old Republic and Legacy are both well regarded works. I like Legacy better, but I recommend both. Also, there's Dark Times and the ongoing Clone Wars comics. Most of the comic book product is good. There's also a free online comic for the upcoming The Old Republic that isn't bad either. Recently, the best novels were teh Darth Bane trilogy. If you like the Sith, I highly recommend those novels. I don't think LOTF or FOTJ can compare. All this stuff shows me that there is a lot of room to do more Star Wars films, and I think if GL made more films (EU based or not), people would go see them.

[CelticPredator]

Why does Kuro believe that the modern fans...which are kids by the way, should get the middle finger? Thats horrible...

[Kurosawa]

Kurosawa, I'm a fan of the prequels too, but at the same time I'm willing to admit they were flawed, even ROTS, which is my third favorite film after ROTJ and ESB (I concede that ESB is the best film, but in terms of enjoyment, ROTJ is first for me. The Vader-Luke battle, the revelation of Leia as Luke's sister, and the Emperor all sold me). I can understand your desire to defend them, but they weren't perfect. In TPM, I was disappointed with Jar Jar. Not only was the character unnecessary, I felt he was offensive and it dampened my enjoyment of the movie. But I decided to let Jar Jar slide because I love the world GL created. I definitely didn't want to see more Jar Jar. I wish that he had gotten killed off, brutally by Dooku, Grevious, or Anakin later in the film. I don't care for the idea of GL being so stubborn that he can't work to satisfy fans on some level, and to some extent he did by reducing Jar Jar's screen time, and ironically by making Jar Jar the instrument Palpatine used to gain emergency powers. I wonder if that was the original idea.

Anyway, I didn't mind Maul dying in TPM like that if his character had been beefed up before. Despite his awesome skills and the great visual I see the limitations of his character. He was all vinegar, no honey. As I wrote before, Dooku/Tyrannus was a better choice to actually lead the Confederacy, and you can't have Maul around. He would be too threatening. Who would want to follow him?

About some of the statements others have made about the EU. I really like the EU, particularly the Dark Horse comics. One thing the comics have over the novels is they are also a visual medium, and its cool to see ships and alien creatures, etc. Next best thing to watching the movies. Also, I think the comics have largely done a better job lately with creating villains and engaging heroes than the post-New Jedi Order novel series, Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi. The Republic comics were awesome. Well drawn and written, with good Clone War action. As for the cloning of Palpatine in Dark Empire, that's just one big story in a sea of EU media out there. The novels are mostly good, particularly the NJO and the Yuuzhan Vong invaders, which was something different for SW. The comic Invasion is set in the NJO timeframe. Also, Admiral Thrawn gets a lot of props though I'm not a big fan. I've only read the first of the Thrawn trilogy so far. The comics Knights of the Old Republic and Legacy are both well regarded works. I like Legacy better, but I recommend both. Also, there's Dark Times and the ongoing Clone Wars comics. Most of the comic book product is good. There's also a free online comic for the upcoming The Old Republic that isn't bad either. Recently, the best novels were teh Darth Bane trilogy. If you like the Sith, I highly recommend those novels. I don't think LOTF or FOTJ can compare. All this stuff shows me that there is a lot of room to do more Star Wars films, and I think if GL made more films (EU based or not), people would go see them.

Oh, I admit the prequels have their flaws. Are they as bad as many people make them out to be? Of course not, no movies are THAT bad. I consider ANH to be the best Episode, not ESB. I do agree that the best scenes in ROTJ were the best in the series.

As for JJB....well any character that people hate that much I want to like, except Scrappy-Doo. I would have written him differently but it's not my story. Killing Jar-Jar would just be GL pandering to an audience that turned on him. No reason to do that. I would have done more scenes like the bit in the Planet core scene where JJB mocks the force. I would have patterned him closer to Kyoami in RAN but Lucas wanted to make a more kid-friendly series obviously. So I feel he was a good idea badly executed.

Maul was a Bond henchman and served his purpose. Dooku was a much more credible leader and he was played by a real actor.

I also felt that Anakin didn't work much in the PT and that is a huge, HUGE problem. It was a combination of script problems by Lucas and bad acting by Lloyd/Christensen. I really think that people don't appreciate what Mark Hamill brought to the OT. If his Luke had sucked like Hayden's Anakin, we wouldn't be talking about any of this. Having an actor play your hero and deliver a believable and sincere performance makes a huge difference in these sorts of stories. It's why Daniel Radcliffe makes the HP series work.

As for the EU, I don't mind the pre-TPM EU and I like a lot of the CW era EU. I find the post-ROTJ EU patently absurd and refuse to accept any of it. One of the reasons why I DO wish Lucas would make a 6-9 is I'd love to see the whining from EU fans, especially Mara Jade worshippers.

Why does Kuro believe that the modern fans...which are kids by the way, should get the middle finger? Thats horrible...

I don't believe in discriminating by age. If I was in Lucas' position I'd do whatever I wanted and not care who hated it.

[I'm Old Greg]

:hehe:

seriously though, I'd love for a legit SOTE movie. but they'd have to find out which ending to use. wasn't there a different ending for both the game,comic, and novel?

Oh i don't know. I liked the game and the figures:woot:

[DarKush]

I agree that the Jar Jar character was poorly executed, but I think he was unnecessary period. If you've already got kid Anakin, R2D2 and C3P0, that's already three kid friendly characters right there, and the two droids could supply the comic relief. There was no need to add Jar Jar.

I disagree that fans turned on GL. Despite a lot of disappointment, on the internet at least, these same people, many very harsh critics, went to all three PT films, probably bought them all on DVD, and probably purchased other merchandise too. There was and still is a lot of debate, some overheated, but I don't see that as turning on GL. If anything, GL should be flattered that people care so much about his work that they spend hours talking the movies.

I disagree also about the post-ROTJ EU. I've enjoyed a great deal of it. I liked the Yuuzhan Vong and would love to see a Clone Wars-style animated film about that war. I also like the Legacy comics, and the idea of the One Sith.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing GL do a 6-9. I was really hyped about the rumors that Mark Hamill would be starring in the live-action TV show as an older Luke, but that was just a rumor. I would rather see that though than a show based between ROTS and ANH. I would rather see this period continue to be covered in the EU.

[I'm Old Greg]

didn't George Lucas write it that Jar Jar is to blame partly for the senate turning to ***t when Padme gives him a part in the senate or something...wth?

[DarknessOfDeath]

:lmao:

I'd get my delta squad to take out that silly gungan. haha...man I've been playing Republic Commando. :up:

[Apollo]

The first time i saw a picture of Jar Jar i thought he was going to be like a wise native gangster with a deep raspy voice. Someone serious that didn't take no crap from no body, like if obi wan had his own chewbacca. Jar jar stood on the sides with a blaster, knowing a few smart tricks to get by.

But turns out my guess was surprisingly wrong...:wow:

my once active star wars imagination took the better of me... :csad:

[SchumacherFan]

The first time i saw a picture of Jar Jar i thought he was going to be like a wise native gangster with a deep raspy voice. Someone serious that didn't take no crap from no body, like if obi wan had his own chewbacca. Jar jar stood on the sides with a blaster, knowing a few smart tricks to get by.

But turns out my guess was surprisingly wrong...:wow:

my once active star wars imagination took the better of me... :csad:

When I was the pictures, I also thought he was Qui Gon Jinn's sidekick, like a legit Chewbacca, which I was excited about because it wasn't rehashing Chewie.

Turns out, Jar Jar was an annoying idiot that did nothing but disrupt important parts of the story and annoy ninety percent of the audience.

And to top matters, GL went ahead and rehashed Chewbacca anyway...

It's almost he could do anything right with the story except for the visual shots and neat effects.

[Kurosawa]

I agree that the Jar Jar character was poorly executed, but I think he was unnecessary period. If you've already got kid Anakin, R2D2 and C3P0, that's already three kid friendly characters right there, and the two droids could supply the comic relief. There was no need to add Jar Jar.

I disagree that fans turned on GL. Despite a lot of disappointment, on the internet at least, these same people, many very harsh critics, went to all three PT films, probably bought them all on DVD, and probably purchased other merchandise too. There was and still is a lot of debate, some overheated, but I don't see that as turning on GL. If anything, GL should be flattered that people care so much about his work that they spend hours talking the movies.

I disagree also about the post-ROTJ EU. I've enjoyed a great deal of it. I liked the Yuuzhan Vong and would love to see a Clone Wars-style animated film about that war. I also like the Legacy comics, and the idea of the One Sith.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing GL do a 6-9. I was really hyped about the rumors that Mark Hamill would be starring in the live-action TV show as an older Luke, but that was just a rumor. I would rather see that though than a show based between ROTS and ANH. I would rather see this period continue to be covered in the EU.

No, a character like Jar-Jar was totally necessary, but Lucas wrote him wrong. The PT is a tragedy, basically Othello in outer space and as a rule those stories have fool characters. Where Lucas messsed up was by writing him too silly and he was trying to be too cute with the character. I'd guess the silly slapstick stuff was a Lucas reference to silent comedies or maybe the Stooges, but it didn't work. As I said before, he should have handled the character differently, more along the lines of Kyoami in RAN or for a more mainstream comparison, like the fool companions Raimi used in Xena and Hercules.

As for people turning on Lucas, well when it goes from criticisms to more personal slams and 70-minute manifestos, I say it's gone from saying "I didn't like it." to near obsessive levels. I'll just put it this way: pandering to fans no matter if they love what you do or hate it is just that: pandering. So cutting Maul in half, feeding Boba to the Sarlacc, having Mace own Jango..are all nice examples of not pandering to fans. So is not killing JJB.

Still can't stomach the Post-ROTJ EU where SuperMara makes Leia look like a chump and everyone and their brother turns to the dark side, but I do like the Yuuzhan Vong idea. I can't get into Legacy-I like my heroes more along the lines of Luke.

I want a 6-9 just because Luke is my favorite hero in all of heroic legend and I'd like to see more of his adventures, even if it is just as a mentor to a new main character.

didn't George Lucas write it that Jar Jar is to blame partly for the senate turning to ***t when Padme gives him a part in the senate or something...wth?

JJB, who is a fool and a dupe, introduced the measure that gave Palpatine the emergency powers that became the base for his absolute power. Palpatine manipulated him into it.

[DarKush]

Fair enough about Legacy. Cade Skywalker is the character I like the least. I'm more into the Sith and the Imperials, plus I love the art for the Legacy books.

I don't know if Maul, Jango, and Boba are all middle fingers to the fans. To me, I think they all wrapped up plot points. Whereas I think Jar Jar was a more of middle finger, even though I think GL did scale him back. I disagree that Jar Jar was necessary because you had R2D2 and CP30 to do the comedy. Jar Jar should've been left behind after TPM, and to some extent he was.

[CelticPredator]

I agree that Star Wars was a tragedy. It's tragic how fall Star Wars has fallen. :(

[Kurosawa]

I agree that Star Wars was a tragedy. It's tragic how fall Star Wars has fallen. :(

:facepalm: SO original.

[Sloth7d]

The prequels were a tragedy, though I believe a poorly executed one, but even if you do find them good, comparing them to Shakespeare is just wrong.

[Bim]

id pay to see a Shadows of the Empire movie :awesome:
This or the Thrawn Trilogy get my vote :woot:

[DarknessOfDeath]

Both and the X-wing series. ;)

[Matt]

I wouldn't mind seeing an animated Shadows of the Empire because its the only way it would work. As for a sequel trilogy (which I maintain WILL happen once the money is green enough for Lucas), go for an original story. The Thrawn Trilogy is overrated. Go for something entirely different.

[Matt]

I wouldn't mind seeing an animated Shadows of the Empire because its the only way it would work. As for a sequel trilogy (which I maintain WILL happen once the money is green enough for Lucas), go for an original story. The Thrawn Trilogy is overrated. Go for something entirely different.

[Kurosawa]

The prequels were a tragedy, though I believe a poorly executed one, but even if you do find them good, comparing them to Shakespeare is just wrong.

Well, my point is the plot of the prequels in general and ROTS in particular is patterned after Othello, with Anakin as Othello, Padme as Desdemona, Palpatine as Iago, and Obi-Wan as Cassio. It's a cross between that and any number of self-fulfilling prophecy stories.

[SchumacherFan]

Prequel Coincedences

1. Vader just happene to build 3P0. <--- Worst one. I still refuse to accept it.

2. R2 just happened to be in the same ship as Anakin when blowing up Trade Fed.

3. 12 Year Old Anakin just happened to hide in a Naboo Star Fighter which just happened to have a helmet that fit a 12 year old!

4. Anakin just happened to fly into the Trade Fed ship and just happened to shoot the main part that blew up the ship.

5. Yoda just happened to know Chewbacca and fought side by side with him.

6. Anakin just happened to be trained by Obi Wan that just happened to be trained by Qui Gon who just happened to be trained by Dooku....

7. The Clone War just happens to start as soon as Obi Wan , Anakin and Padme all meet up. Gee, what timing, George!!

8. Boba Fett just happens to be a clone of his father, another Fett who also just happens to be the source for all Storm Troopers in the Galaxy!!

9. Palpatine just happens to come from the same planet as Padme, the mother of Luke and Leia.

10. Shmi just happens to die as soon as Anakin shows up.

[Sloth7d]

Well, my point is the plot of the prequels in general and ROTS in particular is patterned after Othello, with Anakin as Othello, Padme as Desdemona, Palpatine as Iago, and Obi-Wan as Cassio. It's a cross between that and any number of self-fulfilling prophecy stories.

They're similar in the vaugest way possible, and even that's a stretch, but really their situations are completely different. Anakin is the same race as everyone else, no one tried to trick Anakin into killing Padme, and furthermore he didn't kill Padme though he did hurt her. Essentially she commited suicide in reaction to discovering what an evil sithhead Anakin has become, where as Desdemona really does die due to the damage dealt by Othello.

Anyway, it's just not the same from where I see it. If those were Lucas' intentions, well they really didn't pay off.Same as the entire prophecy of Anakin "bringing balance to the Force" and the whole "virgin birth/messiah" angle. It served no real pay off for the plot, and you can tell the exact same story without the prophecy completely without losing any emotional or logical train of thought you would think to have with it's inclusion. In fact, the original trilogy did.

I find it a bit grating when Lucas or any writer homages something that was deep just to homage it, thus making it something shallow. It's one of the problems I have with AotC, when it really shouldn't have been called such a misleading title just to pay tribute to an old film serial.

[Sloth7d]

Prequel Coincedences

1. Vader just happene to build 3P0. <--- Worst one. I still refuse to accept it.

2. R2 just happened to be in the same ship as Anakin when blowing up Trade Fed.

3. 12 Year Old Anakin just happened to hide in a Naboo Star Fighter which just happened to have a helmet that fit a 12 year old!

4. Anakin just happened to fly into the Trade Fed ship and just happened to shoot the main part that blew up the ship.

5. Yoda just happened to know Chewbacca and fought side by side with him.

6. Anakin just happened to be trained by Obi Wan that just happened to be trained by Qui Gon who just happened to be trained by Dooku....

7. The Clone War just happens to start as soon as Obi Wan , Anakin and Padme all meet up. Gee, what timing, George!!

8. Boba Fett just happens to be a clone of his father, another Fett who also just happens to be the source for all Storm Troopers in the Galaxy!!

9. Palpatine just happens to come from the same planet as Padme, the mother of Luke and Leia.

10. Shmi just happens to die as soon as Anakin shows up.

A Wizard di-- I mean the Force did it, well, except for that first one which makes no sense as Anakin would probably build some sort of worker droid to help his mom before a protocol droid. Now stop pointing out the plot holes!!!:cmad::cwink:

[DarKJediKnight]

A Wizard di-- I mean the Force did it, well, except for that first one which makes no sense as Anakin would probably build some sort of worker droid to help his mom before a protocol droid. Now stop pointing out the plot holes!!!:cmad::cwink:

They're not coincidences and plot holes. Most epic stories, in fact, most stories, tend to have those elements. Except 1 and 3, the rest are just nitpicking. So what if R2's in the same ship with Anakin, or Palpatine's a Naboo? What's the problem with Dooku being Qui-Gon's master? And I think No. 4 is explained in the TPM novelization: Anakin hitting the right target shows that the Force is strong in him, guiding him to the exact spot to hit the reactor.

[Sloth7d]

They're not coincidences and plot holes. Most epic stories, in fact, most stories, tend to have those elements. Except 1 and 3, the rest are just nitpicking. So what if R2's in the same ship with Anakin, or Palpatine's a Naboo? What's the problem with Dooku being Qui-Gon's master?

I was only being half serious with that post, but some of those coincidences do take away from the over all series for me. Namely 1,2,3,5, and 8. Only 1 and 8 I find absurd while the others make the Star Wars universe feel small, though for 2,3, and 5 I do accept the alternate explanation of the Force connecting them all and bringing them all together; destiny and all that.

And I think No. 4 is explained in the TPM novelization: Anakin hitting the right target shows that the Force is strong in him, guiding him to the exact spot to hit the reactor.

If it has to be explained in the novel, it takes away from the films as being credible to tell a story, but I don't think you need the book to tell you that Anakin did what he did through the help of the Force.

[DarKJediKnight]

My reply wasn't really directed at you, but rather to SchumacherFan :yay:

[marvelman2006]

I dont hate the prequels, in fact I like them alot but at the same time I wish lucas would have tightened up the story and script better. He had 6 months to a year to write each movie and yet the story felt like he wrote it in a week at the last minute. Thats really my only nitpick and also too much senate garble.

[DawnWarrior]

If it has to be explained in the novel, it takes away from the films as being credible to tell a story, but I don't think you need the book to tell you that Anakin did what he did through the help of the Force.
Precisely, and it takes away from Anakin's character by basically saying that he doesn't have or need any skills or proficiency at flying or shooting; the Force does everything for him.

From what I've been able to learn, there's a lot of stuff in the novelizations and other media (and this applies to things outside of Star Wars as well) that are meant to explain away or cover for the poor writing or the plot holes in the actual movie. For ex: Some backstory I read somewhere about Darth Maul discusses how he comes from a race of aliens known for being arrogant or some such, which is supposed to explain why he just stood there like a dumba** while Kenobi divided him in half. The reason he just stood there was because it was a poorly written and choreographed scene. If it doesn't work in the movie, it doesn't work.

[Sloth7d]

Precisely, and it takes away from Anakin's character by basically saying that he doesn't have or need any skills or proficiency at flying or shooting; the Force does everything for him.

From what I've been able to learn, there's a lot of stuff in the novelizations and other media (and this applies to things outside of Star Wars as well) that are meant to explain away or cover for the poor writing or the plot holes in the actual movie. For ex: Some backstory I read somewhere about Darth Maul discusses how he comes from a race of aliens known for being arrogant or some such, which is supposed to explain why he just stood there like a dumba** while Kenobi divided him in half. The reason he just stood there was because it was a poorly written and choreographed scene. If it doesn't work in the movie, it doesn't work.

I remember hearing that a while back, and even with that explanation I argued there's a difference between arrogance (which would be letting Obi get back to solid ground with his light saber) and plain stupidity (letting Obi get back to solid ground with his light saber as well as let him slice you in half while doing nothing to defend yourself.)
Yeah, I agree. The scene didn't work, and no retconning via novelizing will change that, especially when the casual fan isn't going to go out of their way to read it.

[Kurosawa]

Anyone who didn't automatically know that Anakin's skills in the Naboo battle came from the force...doesn't understand Star Wars much.

[I'm Old Greg]

anyone see Lucas on the Daily show? talks about how he doesn't care that they suck and he thought they were great when he made them but just goes ehh..
and he talks about walking around his house wearing a jar jar hat...:dry:

[Sloth7d]

Is it up on the official website?

[VenomVsSpidey]

anyone see Lucas on the Daily show? talks about how he doesn't care that they suck and he thought they were great when he made them but just goes ehh..
and he talks about walking around his house wearing a jar jar hat...:dry:

that's not what he said at all. His exact quote was something like :

it's a work of fiction. you can hate em or like em.

and about the Jar Jar thing...ever heard of a sense of humor?

[Frodo]

I think Lucas had some elements that would have worked in the prequels but ultimately I think that there was alot of excess and situations that basically bogged down the films to a point in which the core characters were kinda short shrift. Now here 's a few things I would have suggested had Lucas come to me ...And no, i'm not gonna write a script .Lol.

*Dark Maul would have been the villan in all three much like Vader was. And it's Maul who Anakin kills to take the emperor's place.
* Anakin's character: I would start the series about Luke's age in the first one . He'd also be something of a charmer and a maverick who uses his wit and smarts to get out of situations. He'd have his pride of course but his personality is what draws people to him. You have to figuare there's a reason why so many people are drawn to him including Palpatine, Padme and Obi Wan. He shouldn't be the sullen whiney teen but more of the suave charming bad boy in a sense. I think his sense of humor in particular should have been something he never lost. If you remember Vader had a wicked sense of humor even when he was thrashing people. Anyway I'd make his character likeable that way when he turns it has more of an impact.
* I would have introduced Owen and Beru in the first one and had their characters play a prominant role through out showing a real relationship with Anakin and Padme. This further establishes why Owen is so against Luke following in his father's foot steps as opposed to barely knowing him as the prequels showed
* I would have left out Jango, Jar Jar, Grevious, and Dooku and instead brought in Tarkin as someone who helps in Palpatines rise on the senate side.

[Kurosawa]

that's not what he said at all. His exact quote was something like :

it's a work of fiction. you can hate em or like em.

and about the Jar Jar thing...ever heard of a sense of humor?

NOOOOOOOO! LUcA$$$ RAPED OUR CHILDHOOEDZ! CANNOTS LAUGH!

I think Lucas had some elements that would have worked in the prequels but ultimately I think that there was alot of excess and situations that basically bogged down the films to a point in which the core characters were kinda short shrift. Now here 's a few things I would have suggested had Lucas come to me ...And no, i'm not gonna write a script .Lol.

*Dark Maul would have been the villan in all three much like Vader was. And it's Maul who Anakin kills to take the emperor's place.
* Anakin's character: I would start the series about Luke's age in the first one . He'd also be something of a charmer and a maverick who uses his wit and smarts to get out of situations. He'd have his pride of course but his personality is what draws people to him. You have to figuare there's a reason why so many people are drawn to him including Palpatine, Padme and Obi Wan. He shouldn't be the sullen whiney teen but more of the suave charming bad boy in a sense. I think his sense of humor in particular should have been something he never lost. If you remember Vader had a wicked sense of humor even when he was thrashing people. Anyway I'd make his character likeable that way when he turns it has more of an impact.
* I would have introduced Owen and Beru in the first one and had their characters play a prominant role through out showing a real relationship with Anakin and Padme. This further establishes why Owen is so against Luke following in his father's foot steps as opposed to barely knowing him as the prequels showed
* I would have left out Jango, Jar Jar, Grevious, and Dooku and instead brought in Tarkin as someone who helps in Palpatines rise on the senate side.

Don't agree with all, especially Maul (Christopher Lee > Some Kung Fu guy as the separatist leader), but I do wish they had used Tarkin more.

[Bim]

Don't agree with all, especially Maul (Christopher Lee > Some Kung Fu guy as the separatist leader), but I do wish they had used Tarkin more.
Yeah, i must agree. I loved Dooku, he was just a very elegant and dare i say classy? I liked the fact that he was a more sophisticated bad guy. I know fanboys everywhere will want to murder me after i say this, but i thought Jango was way cooler than Boba :hehe:. More Tarkin would have been nice though, i thought we would see him more.

[bullets]

They definately should of started out with Anakin around Lukes age and made him more of a maverick. I also liked Jango and that part with Boba discovering his severed head was good cinema .

[Kurosawa]

They definately should of started out with Anakin around Lukes age and made him more of a maverick. I also liked Jango and that part with Boba discovering his severed head was good cinema .

I think Anakin starting out as a teenager and being a "maverick" would have been a terrible cliche. They just needed a better kid actor.

[CelticPredator]

The Anakin character wouldnt work period. He's terribly written. Extreamly unlikable, and nothing more then a snot nosed brat. No kid actor would've helped.

[Kurosawa]

Oh, believe me, if Lucas had cast a kid actor with tons of charisma, charm and talent...it would have worked.

[CelticPredator]

Nope. The character needed a whole re-write.

[8wid]

What about the symbolism and even the very fact that the conversation that Anakin wanted any of his off spring to have it and become a Jedi? No one remembers that.

[Kurosawa]

Nope. The character needed a whole re-write.

Then it ceases to be the character and the story the Lucas intended and is therefore fan fiction and not legitimate.

[Kurosawa]

What about the symbolism and even the very fact that the conversation that Anakin wanted any of his off spring to have it and become a Jedi? No one remembers that.

That is the same as Vader killing Luke's father. It's more of Obi-Wan's "truth from a certain point of view" (fibs).

[SchumacherFan]

Star Wars Prequels are unnecessary films. What did we learn in Phantom Menace that we needed to know in Episode 2 ? ? ?

Nothing....

You could start the film at Ep.2....

In fact, you dont really need Ep.2 either! We learned a war started!

We dont learn Sidious is Palpatine at this point.... We learn a war started..

in A New Hope, we didn't see how Rebellion vs. Empire started, we were just thrown into the world, which was better that way.

So you could open Episode 1 with a battle sequence of Seperatist vs. Republic and the result would be better because it saves time....

I'm tired of hearing George's excuse that 'where everybody came from'. That is not what I wanted. I wanted to see a good story and if I happened to catch where everyone came from in this amazing prequel story, than thats fine..

But seeing C3P0 built, R2 from Naboo, how Boba Fett came into a bounty hunter...all this stuff was so pointless. I would want a great story of 3P0 , R2, and Boba Fett, something happening. Not just these gags with droids and a 12 year old Boba that had NOTHING to do with the story.

You could summarize Episodes 1 and 2 in a few sentences for Episode 3. But then George wouldn't get to play with his cool CGI.

Dooku, Qui Gon, Amidala, Jango Fett, Sebubala, Clone Aliens, Panaka, Jar Jar, Watto, Boss Nass, Valorum - All these new characters were just excuses to get to the next page in the story. They didn't even have characters. They were all wooden and humanless.

Prequels were a wasted opporunity. You could have had this story about Sith vs. Jedi with this grand Clone War in the background with rich characters like the young maverick Anakin Skywalker who the audience roots for...

Instead, the audience is confused on who the Sith is and is never explained, Anakin is not likeable, and the Clone War is not even shown until the end of Ep 2 and the beginning of Ep.3. The good portion of the Clone war is between two films and is never shown!!

I don't even know what is the worst part of the Prequels. The weak story with no substance, bad acting thanks to Lucas lack of directing ability, the wooden terrible BORING characters that you do not like or the over use of CGI that makes Star Wars look like a video game....

Lucas should have just ripped off other movies like he did with A New Hope (Kurosawa Film)..Who gives a crap if it's not original, look at Avatar! Every idea has been done before....Plus if the film works, he could just say its an homage.

Episode I - Seven Samurai & Aladdin
Episode II - Titanic & Escape from New York
Episode III - Godfather & The Fountain

[CelticPredator]

Then it ceases to be the character and the story the Lucas intended and is therefore fan fiction and not legitimate.

I ment Lucas re-writes it. Besides, it's not like Lucas' crap was any worse then a 12 year old fan's work anyway.

[LostSon88]

Nope. The character needed a whole re-write.

Tell me about it...my biggest gripe about the PT was the fact that Anakin simply wasn't a likable character. Even in TPM he came off as a brat to me...

[CelticPredator]

He was totally a brat. He was the single most unlikable character in the entire saga. As much as I hate Jar Jar, i'd rather hang out with him then that whiney brat.

[I'm Old Greg]

Anikan was a horrible character, in the OT he was described as being awesome, I was interested in who that guy was.

I thought he was going to be this powerful Jedi that was Godlike compared to any that stood before him.

I don't understand why at the end of TPM they didn't go back for his mom?? He was a jedi in training, friends with the queen who obviously has money! He saved the goddamned day and no one would spring for some cash to pay Watto off??

[VenomVsSpidey]

I'm gonna steal a quote from kevin smith : what's a better way than to make the ultimate badass some little whiny emo kid?

[Frodo]

I think Anakin starting out as a teenager and being a "maverick" would have been a terrible cliche. They just needed a better kid actor.

The whole Kid concept was lame to begin with because then they were gonna age Anakin and recast the role anyway . One of the biggest faults with the second film was that it wasn't convincing that Anakin was several years younger then Padme because they looked the same age anyway.

[8wid]

Who else though that Obi-Wan's look in Attack of the Clones was hideous?

[CelticPredator]

I'm gonna steal a quote from kevin smith : what's a better way than to make the ultimate badass some little whiny emo kid?

Make him a badass in the first place.

[VenomVsSpidey]

Make him a badass in the first place.

It's better to have him like lucas intended him. Someone who, at first means and want's to do well, but ultimately ***** up in the end.

[CelticPredator]

Lucas sucks....so...lol.

[DarKJediKnight]

My take on the prequels is if you hate it because the plot was not played out as you expected it to be, then you're wrong. If you hate that Anakin was made into a troubled young person, then you're wrong in hating the prequels. This is still Lucas' story, and how he wants it to be is up to him. I will not disagree with everyone that the script and acting is bad, so MY solution is I look at the prequel stories in a grander sense. What I mean is if the story was told without the acting and the script. I agree with Kurosawa here that if ever the prequels get remade, it should be told with the same story, but better.

[CelticPredator]

The plot didnt play out...it just happened. TPM was really a waste. I mean, I dont hate the movie all that much, but nothing really happens aside from them finding Anakin. Yippie!

[VenomVsSpidey]

say what you want about TPM, but the podrace sequence was badass. and it gave us two fantastic games based off that 15 minute scene :up:

[CelticPredator]

Meh. I hated that scene. Even when I was little. The Tatooinne scene was the first time I ever felt a film ....draaaaaaaaaagggg...

I always fast forward to when they got back to Naboo for the final battle.

[CelticPredator]

I liked the game though

[Kurosawa]

It's better to have him like lucas intended him. Someone who, at first means and want's to do well, but ultimately ***** up in the end.

Yeah, what people don't realize is that Vader is not a badass and never was. He's a wretch. The badass is Luke, and his most badass acts involve non-violence.

[VenomVsSpidey]

I liked the game though

the ps2 sequels was fun, but I'll always have my fond memories of beating the hell outta people with sebulba on N64 :woot:

Yeah, what people don't realize is that Vader is not a badass and never was. He's a wretch. The badass is Luke, and his most badass acts involve non-violence.


this.

[CelticPredator]

Vader IS a badass. How could you say that? Did you not watch Star Wars? Jesus....

[VenomVsSpidey]

Vader IS a badass. How could you say that? Did you not watch Star Wars? Jesus....

A Badass Bad guy, but at the same time and also as anakin? He's depressed. we just didn't see this on screen, because I would presume that takes away from who he is. have you seen the picture vader's remorse?

[CelticPredator]

You do know you can be a badass, and have feelings...correct? John McClane...badass. Dutch, badass, yet had feelings.

Vader, badass, except in the PT.

[VenomVsSpidey]

You do know you can be a badass, and have feelings...correct? John McClane...badass. Dutch, badass, yet had feelings.

Vader, badass, except in the PT.

I'll give you Ep. I/2, but I thought he was full blown badass in 3. and here's the pic.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7820/vadersremorse.jpg

[CelticPredator]

He was a brat in episode 3.

[DarKJediKnight]

You see CP, I think you're the one of those persons I'm talking about that have imagined traits of characters (that you don't want to erase from your mind) when that character hasn't really been explored. And I think that's you're problem.

You have like 100 posts or more that repeats the same thing: Vader is a whiner in PT. Vader's a brat in PT. Vader's a badass, but not in PT. Different statements, same in meaning.

So what if he's been written as a troubled whiner brat in PT? I think YOU want him to be some kind of larger than life, glamourized hero that YOU think of when you see the original trilogy, when in the OT, his history as a Jedi was just mentioned a few times.

[CelticPredator]

Dude, I was freaking 8 years old when Episode 1 came out...I never had images like that in my head. I never imagined Vader as a certin thing. But I can tell you, I was just as disappointed when Episode 2 came out, and thats when I knew.

And you know what? Everyone talks about the PT. Everyone keeps mentioning things that make me have to come back and argue about it. Nothings gonna stop thatr brah,

[Kurosawa]

Here's what Mr. Badass did in the OT: kill Imperials. Kill rebels(neither of who had a chance). Kill Kenobi (cos Obi-Wan let him), beat Luke (who was a padawan with < 6 months of training), lose to Luke, and sneak up on Palp and throw him down a hole. The badass isn't Vader, who is a petty bully. The badass is Luke, who listens to his teachers, who admits his mistakes (and apologizes for them..and means it), and who chooses mercy over anger. Vader is as badass as any other dictator's stooge, which is to say not at all.

Anakin as a child (and this is why Lucas had him as a kid in TPM) had to potential to be like Luke, but the Jedi failed to recognize his problems after Qui-Gon died (and that's part of why Qui-Gon is so important). But he never could get over his personal issues, he could never become selfless like Luke was. He was too concerned with himself and with what he wanted. He had some degree of decency, but his lust for power and his selfishness won out. Luke was able to put others-including his sorry ass papa-over himself and that's why he didn't turn.

[BLACK-SPIDEY]

Vader IS a badass. How could you say that? Did you not watch Star Wars? Jesus....

Yeah, but when you know that a whiny little kid once called Anakin is below that mask.......he´s not THAT badass anymore. :hehe:

[Deaths Head II]

Vader is a great villain. Anakin isn't a great anything.

He's not a good protagonist or a good villain. He's just annoying.

[CelticPredator]

The badass is Luke, who listens to his teachers, who admits his mistakes (and apologizes for them..and means it), and who chooses mercy over anger. .
.

WHAT!? That's not a badass! A badass is a guy who kills everyone, and doesnt give a ****. Sure he may have emotion under all that, but...a ****ing teacher, someone who apologizes? Holy **** man.... Jesus ****ing Christ.

Vader is a badass because he can force choke the **** out of you from an incredibly long distance. No remorse. No pity. That is a badass.

List of badasses. And an example of some of thier badassary.

Indiana Jones- Killing the Swordsman.

Darth Vader- Force choking everyone.

Daniel Craig's James Bond- whenever he beats someone to death.

The Bear Jew- Killin' Nazi's and Hitler...and everyone, and winning WW2.

The Terminator- For killing EVERYONE.

So basicly, you gotta kill everyone to be a badass. Not "teach" or "apologize".

[BenReilly]

Luke wasn't a badass. That's not in his character.

If anyone was a badass, it was Han Solo...

[CelticPredator]

Ah yes. Sorry. Han Solo. Badass because HE SHOT GREEDO FIRST.

[BLACK-SPIDEY]

Ah yes. Sorry. Han Solo. Badass because HE SHOT GREEDO FIRST.

NO HE DIDNT!!!!!!:cmad:

















nah, just kidding he did. :hehe:

[CelticPredator]

Damn right he did! :o

[Kurosawa]

WHAT!? That's not a badass! A badass is a guy who kills everyone, and doesnt give a ****. Sure he may have emotion under all that, but...a ****ing teacher, someone who apologizes? Holy **** man.... Jesus ****ing Christ.

Vader is a badass because he can force choke the **** out of you from an incredibly long distance. No remorse. No pity. That is a badass.

List of badasses. And an example of some of thier badassary.

Indiana Jones- Killing the Swordsman.

Darth Vader- Force choking everyone.

Daniel Craig's James Bond- whenever he beats someone to death.

The Bear Jew- Killin' Nazi's and Hitler...and everyone, and winning WW2.

The Terminator- For killing EVERYONE.

So basicly, you gotta kill everyone to be a badass. Not "teach" or "apologize".

There are different kinds of bad asses, but a true badass does things the HARD way, not the easy way. Vader is no more a bad ass than any other stooge. Force choking defenseless Imperials and Rebels does not make him a bad ass, it makes him a bully. As soon as he fought someone who was on anything close to even ground with him (Luke) he got beat. Even Kenobi just let Vader kill him. Only a master of evil.

[CelticPredator]

Bad-Ass...

A BAD *******. Not a Nice fella with a heart of gold....

What you described is not a badass. But a goody tooshoes super hero.

[BLACK-SPIDEY]

Damn right he did! :o

*high five*

[CelticPredator]

You want Badass? This scene is BADASS....

HNvzNWuzI9Y

[bullets]

I think Anakin starting out as a teenager and being a "maverick" would have been a terrible cliche. They just needed a better kid actor.


I think the cliche would of been suitable in this case.


Oh, believe me, if Lucas had cast a kid actor with tons of charisma, charm and talent...it would have worked.

The prequel would of still received flack but this may have helped . I really didn't expect much form the kid anyway but I didn't find him that likeable.

[SchumacherFan]

George Lucas is very imaginative and creative, however he needs to be filtered. Surrounding himself with Yes Men is the worst thing that could happen to the prequel trilogy.

If another director Ron Howard, Coppola and Spielberg stepped in, they would filter George's ideas and you would have decent movies instead of Lucas' personal complete controlled movies that failed on a lot of aspects.

Lucas had good ideas, like Darth Maul and the Jedi in their prime, the worlds of Kamino, Naboo, etc.. Visually, he is great. But just using three SW films as a way to play with CGI is such a bad idea on so many levels.

Another thing I got to add to this interesting thread, George Lucas just sort of forced characters on the audience. He put characters in the scene for the sole purpose to advance the story, but when you do this, the audience just doesnt buy it.

Like when Mace Windu said he was going to arrest Palpatine (because Jedi dont kill) goes in to arrest Palpatine, then decides he IS going to kill Palpatine just because George needed a moment where anakin steps in! (LOL). So he totally contradicted the whole scene. The audience is not a bunch of 5 year olds.

If you watch any of the behind the scenes / interview stuff with George, the most annoying thing he always says 'we need a character that is more funny than the previous movies' or 'i needed a character that could get obi to kamino'. No George... No you did not need a character there to advance story. You needed characters that developed around the story.

And if he wrote it for kids (like his excuse), then why all the political non-sense that is way over the head of 10 year olds watching it that have no idea whats going on.

George realizes his mistakes on his films. He heard a couple of them and totally tuned them out as he is an extremely arrogant human being. He won't defend Jar Jar, the obvious plot holes, whiny *****y unlikable Anakin . . . He'll just close his eyes and ears and hum a song if anyone comes close to explaining why he f'ed up the Prequels. He has enough money in the bank to do this.

I can't wait for the documentary 'The People vs. George Lucas' ! ! !

Here is the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoc3roT81nU

[CelticPredator]

Did you know that George pretty much fired Frank Darabont? He had a great Indy 4 script...and George fired him. Yep.

[Kurosawa]

Bad-Ass...

A BAD *******. Not a Nice fella with a heart of gold....

What you described is not a badass. But a goody tooshoes super hero.

I think this perception of what is and what isn't strong is part of why many people just don't get Star Wars. In 99% of other stories, winning is determined by being the strongest/most angry...usually the hero is pushed and pushed and they break and then they kick the bad guys ass and that's the end. Star Wars isn't like that. It teases that ending, but in reality that is when Luke is closest to losing. Deconstructing Vader is part of that whole theme. Vader was never anything but a stooge and a slave. He was never free in his life. He was a pathetic wretch of a man.

[CelticPredator]

So? He was still a badass.

Jason Voorhees is a retard. And yet, he's a badass.

[Kurosawa]

Well, I look at SW quite a bit differently than you, let's leave it at that.

[LostSon88]

Forget it...

[CelticPredator]

Well, I look at SW quite a bit differently than you, let's leave it at that.
You look at badasses quite a bit different then anyone...lol.

:hehe:

[Bim]

Like when Mace Windu said he was going to arrest Palpatine (because Jedi dont kill) goes in to arrest Palpatine, then decides he IS going to kill Palpatine just because George needed a moment where anakin steps in! (LOL). So he totally contradicted the whole scene. The audience is not a bunch of 5 year olds.

Mace had gone to arrest him, but Sidious wasnt exactly going down quietly and Mace realized what had to be done, specially after Sidious offed the other jedi. What's wrong with this? :huh:

I dont think of Vader as a badass to be honest. I have to agree with Kurosawa. he was just a big bully :hehe:

[GreenKToo]

I had always thought of Vader as a bad a$$ Mofo, then the prequels came out.:dry:

[danoyse]

Kuro and Celtic, the same warning Hunter Rider issued to both of you on the Star Wars thread also applies here. Take it to PMs if you want to continue battling each other out.

[Sloth7d]

Mace had gone to arrest him, but Sidious wasnt exactly going down quietly and Mace realized what had to be done, specially after Sidious offed the other jedi. What's wrong with this? :huh:

I dont think of Vader as a badass to be honest. I have to agree with Kurosawa. he was just a big bully :hehe:

He changed his mind because he realized Sidious controlled the Senate, which is what he said even though were that really the case it would be something he would realize before hand.
To defend this, most of the guys I talk to speculate that Sidius used force manipulation on Windu when Anakin got there. I think that's an entire cop-out, but it is a valid explanation.

[Bim]

He changed his mind because he realized Sidious controlled the Senate, which is what he said even though were that really the case it would be something he would realize before hand.
To defend this, most of the guys I talk to speculate that Sidius used force manipulation on Windu when Anakin got there. I think that's an entire cop-out, but it is a valid explanation.
To me, Mace's actions were more related with "Is Anakin's telling the truth or not", rather than knowing or not that Sidious controlled the Senate. As Chancellor it was obvious he had power. Mace wasnt exactly a huge Anakin fan, so the way i see it he wanted to see for himself before deciding the definitive course of action to take with Palpatine. If indeed he was a sith, he would have to be dealt with by force.

[CelticPredator]

Kuro and Celtic, the same warning Hunter Rider issued to both of you on the Star Wars thread also applies here. Take it to PMs if you want to continue battling each other out.
Why cant we have discussions? We were discussing about badasses. I dont see the big deal. I never have PM arguments. It's so boring.

[daywalker2007]

george lucas's prequels were a waste of time.
nothing interesting in them, and they were just a showcase for his ILM teams.

He should have done a sequel to ROTJ instead, come up with a new villian after Darth Vader.

But instead, we keep getting prequels! clone wars!
what next!
how darth vader got his first girlfriend?

[VenomVsSpidey]

Opinion.

[danoyse]

Why cant we have discussions? We were discussing about badasses. I dont see the big deal. I never have PM arguments. It's so boring.

You can continue to have discussions if you quit taking swipes at each other. We're all tired of listening to the two of you argue like an old married couple.

[CelticPredator]

What are you reading? Who's taking swipes? I havent posted a single insult. And neither has he.

[danoyse]

What are you reading? Who's taking swipes? I havent posted a single insult. And neither has he.

He dropped it. You didn't.

You look at badasses quite a bit different then anyone...lol.

:hehe:


A moderator already told you stop that kind of talk in the other Star Wars thread. Do not start up on this one.

[CelticPredator]

He hasnt even been in here...period.

I really dont get this at all. Not at all.

[SchumacherFan]

I think I already said this, but originally George Lucas wanted his friends to direct each prequel movie. He wanted Coppola to direct Ep.1, Ron Howard to direct Ep.2, and his best friend Spielberg to direct Ep.3. ALL three directors told him no, they wanted no part of it, and to top it off, all three convinced George that he should be the one to direct them all...

Sigh, so then Lucas took his one page full of 'backstory notes' like:

Anakin - 9 yrs old, slave, Tatooine

And tried to come up with a legit story from these 'notes'. The truth of the matter was there was no backstory at all. Just 'ideas' which he failed to turn into a good story.

He should have realized there is too much money at stake and got a good writer like David Koepp (jurassic park / spider-man) to help him take his good ideas and develop them into a good stories with better characters...