Re-Writing the Star Wars Prequels....

[SchumacherFan]

My thing with PT (Prequel Trilogy) was there weren't that many good new characters! Mace Windu, Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul were the only decent characters in the new series and that is only because of the awesome talent behind the characters that made the characters! Even Amidala kinda sucked, she was snotty and stuck up at certain parts and extremely un-human, kind of a robot. Nute Gunray, Boss Nass, Jar Jar Binks were all terrible new characters that went nowhere except to bug people...

In the OT (Original Trilogy), you had:

A Farm Boy ; the Everyman Hero (Luke)
A Wizard (Obi Wan)
A Princess (Leia)
An Anti-Hero (Han)
An Evil Villain (Vader)
A Gangster (Jabba)
A General of the Evil Empire (Tarkin)
An Evil Dictator ala Hitler (Palpatine)
A Traitor (Lando)

That made it cool, a variety of neat characters all with this Galactic War going on in the background (Empire vs. Rebellion). All these characters had arcs and developed.

In the PT, you had:

A Boy (Anakin)
A Boy turned into Whiny Teen (Anakin)
A Wise Samurai (Qui Gon)
A Samurai Apprentice (Obi Wan)
An Evil Samurai (Maul)
A Queen who wasn't a Queen who was a Senator (Amidala)

Does anyone see the difference ? Not too much thought went into the Prequel overall story / characters. It was all pretty bland basic ***** that was not that interesting...

My question is what other character stereotypes do you think should have been put into the Prequel Story ? ? ?

Like...

A Mad Scientist (A creator of Clones) - Actor: Paul Giamatti

Can anyone help me out here to think of more compelling new characters and some actors to play them ? I'm trying to get new ideas and want to hear your opinion.

[Wesley Dodds]

The one thing these movies needed most was a Han Solo. A lovable badass type with a knack for clever one liners... Someone the audience can actually relate to, that can provide a little relief when the story gets a little too ridiculous.
Like Wolverine in the first two X-Men movies...

[SchumacherFan]

The one thing these movies needed most was a Han Solo. A lovable badass type with a knack for clever one liners... Someone the audience can actually relate to, that can provide a little relief when the story gets a little too ridiculous.
Like Wolverine in the first two X-Men movies...

interesting, any ideas on actor type ? ? ? Maybe Samuel L Jackson as normal civilian and get rid of Mace Windu ? He is the ultimate badass actor, imo... Probably why people liked Mace's character so much because of Sam Jackson behind the character.

[Wesley Dodds]

Fillion immediately comes to mind... But that's probably just because he's pretty much already played Han Solo in Firefly.

[DarkSovereignty]

might get flamed for this but maybe anakin could have been the reckless badass han solo type. Would have caused major friction with the council, definitely would have given him more personality. I mean we got a glimpse of this in the beginning of attack of the clones when him and obi won are chasing down jango fett. Why not expand on it.

[Blackman]

Plot wise I thought the prequels were fine

It was just Jar Jar and corny dialogue that made them worse for me, but I still thought I & III were good

[Kurosawa]

The one thing these movies needed most was a Han Solo. A lovable badass type with a knack for clever one liners... Someone the audience can actually relate to, that can provide a little relief when the story gets a little too ridiculous.
Like Wolverine in the first two X-Men movies...

I hate Wolverine with a passion but I do like Han and although I'm one of the few Prequel defenders around, I do see this point.

[Spider-Vader]

might get flamed for this but maybe anakin could have been the reckless badass han solo type. Would have caused major friction with the council, definitely would have given him more personality. I mean we got a glimpse of this in the beginning of attack of the clones when him and obi won are chasing down jango fett. Why not expand on it.

He's a reckless badass in the "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" show. He reminds me of Han in it.

[Nightmare]

I liked III the best, as an overall movie. Darth Maul was badass. I would of liked more of him and qui gon in the prequels.

[Sloth7d]

might get flamed for this but maybe anakin could have been the reckless badass han solo type. Would have caused major friction with the council, definitely would have given him more personality. I mean we got a glimpse of this in the beginning of attack of the clones when him and obi won are chasing down jango fett. Why not expand on it.

That wouldn't have been a bad idea. Then George really could have his cake and eat it too. This way Anakin could actually be a person Obi could be friends with instead of the plot just telling us they're close, Anakin can be rebellious without being annoying, and he can still start off as the hero.
Though I'm not sure if Hayden could pull that off personally.

[El_Citrus]

Aside from getting a better Anakin, I would have had him be much older in TPM, being around his age from AOTC so that it helps to really show the council's hesitancy to train him due to already having a preset moral compass from living as a slave.

I would have liked for Qui-Gon and Anakin to then develop a big mentor-apprentice relationship that would help further scar Anakin when Qui-Gon is killed and set the groundwork for his recklessness in AOTC and his turn to the darkside in ROTS. That could have been a powerful moment with Anakin helpless as he watches his father-figure murdered by Maul.

I'm not sure if I would like to have seen Maul in AOTC or not. It may have been interesting to watch Anakin kill Maul out of anger midway through and then only witness the unending cycle as Dooku steps in to take his place.

I've always wished that the prequels could have been done better because they had plenty of material to make a masterful second trilogy. My ideas may be no good, but I know that there are plenty of better ones out there than what Lucas came up with.

[ross2287]

Should this maybe me merged with the Star Wars thread we already have?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=279333&page=308

[Fresh Prince]

I agree Anakin should of been the badass Han Solo type, he already disregard some rules in the films and was stubborn at times so would of worked.

As for Darth Maul he should of been in all 3 movies if you asked me. Have him get killed in the final movie, then Darth Sidious wanting a replacement.

[bullets]

Theere is a star wars thread somewhere around here. Prequels are a done deal but could of been better with minor changes.

[Sloth7d]

I agree Anakin should of been the badass Han Solo type, he already disregard some rules in the films and was stubborn at times so would of worked.

As for Darth Maul he should of been in all 3 movies if you asked me. Have him get killed in the final movie, then Darth Sidious wanting a replacement.

It woul have been bad ass if he had a dramatic return in AotC revealing he had regenerative properties. The look on Obiwan's face would be priceless.

[bullets]

Instead of General Grievous they could of used that with Darth maul . He had the mechanical legs in the comic and by golly that worked.

[Bim]

Aside from getting a better Anakin, I would have had him be much older in TPM, being around his age from AOTC so that it helps to really show the council's hesitancy to train him due to already having a preset moral compass from living as a slave.

I would have liked for Qui-Gon and Anakin to then develop a big mentor-apprentice relationship that would help further scar Anakin when Qui-Gon is killed and set the groundwork for his recklessness in AOTC and his turn to the darkside in ROTS. That could have been a powerful moment with Anakin helpless as he watches his father-figure murdered by Maul.


As much as i love Qui-Gon, i would scratch him altogether from the PT (we havent heard of him on the OT and i just dont think he should have a prominent role at all) and just make Obi-Wan a newly knighted Jedi who comes across Anakin. Have Obi-Wan be a bit more of a rogue who pushes for a much older Anakin to be trained. Would have been better to have Anakin a teen already in episode I instead of showing him as a young boy, just my opinion.

[TheWrathOfGod]

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Replace Jar Jar with Ron Perlman, who would play a dishonored Mandalorian that quickly becomes friends with Obi-wan and Anakin. He would be a variation on the Han Solo character, but has psychological scars about some war (think Canderous Ordo from KOTOR). Anakin could murder him in Episode 3 for dramatic effect.

Also, they should have never shown the birth of Vader, rather just have Anakin die and Vader appear. Episode 3 ruins the spoiler of Empire Strikes Back.

Lose the CGI for practical effects and the prequels would have been much better.

[Aesop Rocks]

My re-write.

Greedo doesn't shoot first.

[Sloth7d]

Or at all :o

[Raiden]

I like the idea of Anakin having Han Solo personality, although I don't think Hayden would have been the perfect actor for it because he always seemed a bit wooden to me. I also think that Darth Maul should have been present in all three Prequel movies, because what they really lack was a good villain throughout the series, and Palpatine, like the Emperor, works better in the background than forefront. Anyway, those were but a few of many problems that the Prequel had.

[Fresh Prince]

They should of had someone esle play Anakin, who can actually act.

[Raiden]

They should of had someone esle play Anakin, who can actually act.

I agree, although I think even good actors won't have been able to make those awful dialogues sound good.

[Firm]

Prequels

The characters that worked:
-R2D2
-C3PO
-Qui Gon Jin
-Obi One Kenobi (Especially in Episode III)
-Palpatin
-Mace Windu
-Yoda
-Not a lot of screenplay but Fisto
-Jango

And one thing that was spot on for me was the evolution of the clones, I was quite young when Episode II came out and I didn't realize that the Clones will become Star Troopers and when in Episode III you got all those different clones that started to look like Troopers I was like "Damn, I love how they did". The whole costume evolution was great.

The worst things in the new trilogy were: the characters weren't as well written as the ones in the OT.

And Anakin - Hayden was the worst choice ever, ruined Anakin completely.

[Fresh Prince]

I agree, although I think even good actors won't have been able to make those awful dialogues sound good.

True. Would of been kickass to see an Anakin/Darth Maul fight.

[Octoberist]

to this very day, I can't stand Episode 1 and while I can see the apeal of it from a fan's point of view, as a movie it was just lame.

I would start with the plot structure of Attack of the Clones and make that Episode 1. Add some flashbacks in there and perhaps cut out any fat if need be.

Make Episode 2 take place in the clone wars, so you know WHY Anakin is so good.

Then in part 3, well, Episode 3 was decent already so keep it the way it is. And tone down the CGI in the final Anakin/Obi Won fight. Awful.

[Firm]

What they really should've done is show Anakin's recrutation in a prologue or something and keep Qui Gon alive till the Clone Wars - then he can die.

In Episode I they could show us a battle between Darth Maul and Anakin and a battle between Qui Gon/Obi One and Count Dooku.

Episode II - Anakin and Obi fight Grevious and Dooku

Episode III - leave it.

[Octoberist]

I really think that the prequels were missing those awesome character moments that the originals had.

Like when Yoda lifted the X-Wing from the swamp when Luke gave up, in 'Empire'. That, my friends, were just ..movie magic.

[Raiden]

I really think that the prequels were missing those awesome character moments that the originals had.

Like when Yoda lifted the X-Wing from the swamp when Luke gave up, in 'Empire'. That, my friends, were just ..movie magic.

Yeah, there were so many moments in the OT that the PT just didn't have. Hence the reason why the prequels will never become truly classic, just pretenders for the SW crown.

[Sloth7d]

Well, we do have those awesome character moments, except quite the opposite of famous, they're imfamous. "Unlimited Powah!" and "NOooOOoo" anyone?

[amazingfantasy15]

Prequels

The characters that worked:
-R2D2
-C3PO
-Qui Gon Jin
-Obi One Kenobi (Especially in Episode III)
-Palpatin
-Mace Windu
-Yoda
-Not a lot of screenplay but Fisto
-Jango

And one thing that was spot on for me was the evolution of the clones, I was quite young when Episode II came out and I didn't realize that the Clones will become Star Troopers and when in Episode III you got all those different clones that started to look like Troopers I was like "Damn, I love how they did". The whole costume evolution was great.

The worst things in the new trilogy were: the characters weren't as well written as the ones in the OT.

And Anakin - Hayden was the worst choice ever, ruined Anakin completely.

I don't think it was really Hayden that ruined the character as much as the script. They really needed to show Anakin as a kind of rebellious and reckless jedi. Also his turn to the dark side should be been slower, in the movies it's just a light switch, one second he's ratting Palpatine out, the next he's siding with him. All on a vague promise to teach Anakin the way to save someone who might die? I think episode one should have combined episodes 1 and 2, Episode 2 should have been the clone war, ending with Anakin's turn to the dark side. Episode 3 should have been an ultimate bad guy movie, with the fall of the Republic and rise of the empire, Vader hunting down Jedis. Keep the final fight between Vader and Obi-Wan, but have it more personal, more brutal, add some physical violence like punches and kicks in there with the saber stuff. The fight we got was horrible because it didn't seem to have any emotion, it was just a video game with all the effects around.

[Thundarr]

Episode I

1) Make Anikin older: If he's gonna fall in love with Padme, at least make him in his early teens. That twit was so young he wouldn't know what to do with a woman if he got one!

2) Get rid of Qui-Gon: In the OT Obi-Wan said that he took it upon himself to train Anikin as a jedi, so that's what they should've written. Not the he trained Anikin as a jedi because he promised his dying master that he would.

3) More Darth Maul: Give Darth Maul more to do. Have him torture information out of Jawas while hunting for Queen Amadala and the jedi or something.

4) Less CGI, More Practical Effects: Make the battle droids armour plated protocol droids with blasters attached to their forams (people in costumes). Or use anamatronics/puppets. Build actual sets rather than just putting people in front of a damn green screen. In short, don't make it look like a giant goddamned video game.

5) No Jar-Jar: 'Nuff said!

Episode II

1) Find a better actor to play Anikin: 'Nuff said!

2) Keep Padme as Queen of Naboo: It's not the prom, you don't vote for who's gonna be queen.

3) Use actual people in clone armour: Not one clone in Episode II or III was actually there. They were all CGI. As a result, all three movies looked like goddamn video games. Only CGI used should be for when the clones aren't wearing their helmets.

4) Make the Geonotians and the clone making aliens more human like: So that they can be done with actors in prosthetic make up rather than being all CGI characters. Also, did anyone notice that one of the jedi in the counsil in Episode I was of the race of cloners, but in Episode II nobody in the Jedi Council had ever heard of that race's home planet?

Episode III

1) Let it take longer for Anikin to turn to the Dark Side.

2) Less CGI, more practical effects.

3) When Anikin leads the assault on the Jedi Temple, we should see him dueling with some of the jedi masters and padawans (that scene was actually shot, but cut from the theatrical release).

4) In the novelization of Episode III, Anikin kills the jedi master in charge of the temple archives. He demands her to step aside so he can send a signal to the other jedi instructing them to return to the temple and she refuses. He cuts her down with his lightsaber without ever letting her draw her weapon. This scene should also have been shot and added to the movie.

5) I actually liked the duels between Anikin and Obi-Wan as well as Yoda and Darth Sidius. I just wish they used more practical effects and built actual sets for the actors/stunt people to fight on.

5)

[Kurosawa]

There were actually a lot more practical sets and minatures than you think in the prequels, they just composite them into the CGI so it all looks uniform.

Mustafar lavabeds-a model. So was Utuapu and Kashyyyk. A lot of the Coruscant buildings were models too, like Dex's Diner and the Industrial district when they are chasing Zam Wesell. The battle arena at the end of AOTC was a model too. I'm not saying there wasn't a lot of CGI too, but they did the effects with more than just CGI.

My only real beef with the prequels was the editing on AOTC was poor, and Hayden and Natalie didn't hold up their end of the acting as well as the British actors did, especially Hayden. Lucas got insanely lucky with Mark Hamill, imo. If his performance in ANH was as lacking as Hayden's often was, we wouldn't be talking about any of this. Having a convincing lead hero is a lot of what sold ANH.

[Sloth7d]

It wasn't just on Hayden and Natalie. A lot their dialogue should have been changed altogether. Look at that whole "Love has blinded you" line in RotS. There's no way that should made it past editing.

[Eggyman]

It wasn't just on Hayden and Natalie. A lot their dialogue should have been changed altogether. Look at that whole "Love has blinded you" line in RotS. There's no way that should made it past editing.

That scene is simply painful. The acting's bad too, BUT how can anyone take their performance seriously with lines so bad?

[Sloth7d]

I think what happened is Lucas realized he didn't have enough time to develope their relationship so he just had them say they love each other over and over again in the most awkward ways possible. Reminds m of how Sandman just announces his character in SM3.

[Eggyman]

I think what happened is Lucas realized he didn't have enough time to develope their relationship so he just had them say they love each other over and over again in the most awkward ways possible. Reminds m of how Sandman just announces his character in SM3.

Yeh. Anakin wasn't a bad guy, he just had bad luck. :awesome:

[Sloth7d]

Considering that he had force dreams about his wifes death that only happened because he had those force dreams in the first place, I'd actually say that was true. :oldrazz:

[Rishi]

Plot wise I thought the prequels were fine

It was just Jar Jar and corny dialogue that made them worse for me, but I still thought I & III were good

Really? They were more about pointless political strife than anikin's journey to the darkside.

[Dugath]

I don't think it was really Hayden that ruined the character as much as the script. They really needed to show Anakin as a kind of rebellious and reckless jedi. Also his turn to the dark side should be been slower, in the movies it's just a light switch, one second he's ratting Palpatine out, the next he's siding with him. All on a vague promise to teach Anakin the way to save someone who might die? I think episode one should have combined episodes 1 and 2, Episode 2 should have been the clone war, ending with Anakin's turn to the dark side. Episode 3 should have been an ultimate bad guy movie, with the fall of the Republic and rise of the empire, Vader hunting down Jedis. Keep the final fight between Vader and Obi-Wan, but have it more personal, more brutal, add some physical violence like punches and kicks in there with the saber stuff. The fight we got was horrible because it didn't seem to have any emotion, it was just a video game with all the effects around.

I really did not understand his quick turn from "good to bad". Sure I guess it was established that he had a temper and that he was rather weak willed (Palpatine convincing Anakin in less than 10 seconds to chop off Duku's head) but evil.. he was not.. then all of a sudden he attacking Jedi and slaughtering children.. based on a dream and a vauge(flimsy) notion that the dark side MIGHT help.

I know G.L wanted us to see Anikans fall to evil (dark side) but all I saw was an easily fooled, weak willed child who didnt know what he was doing.

Movies 1-3 were all pretty bad for me, relying more on Special effects and having really weak plots, dialog and characters.

[Eggyman]

I really did not understand his quick turn from "good to bad". Sure I guess it was established that he had a temper and that he was rather weak willed (Palpatine convincing Anakin in less than 10 seconds to chop off Duku's head) but evil.. he was not.. then all of a sudden he attacking Jedi and slaughtering children.. based on a dream and a vauge(flimsy) notion that the dark side MIGHT help.

I know G.L wanted us to see Anikans fall to evil (dark side) but all I saw was an easily fooled, weak willed child who didnt know what he was doing.

Movies 1-3 were all pretty bad for me, relying more on Special effects and having really weak plots, dialog and characters.

I think that's down to him being weak. He did one bad thing and let it snowball because he was so ashamed of his actions. 'What have I done?' After what happened with Mace he could've still turned back, but instead of facing the consequences of his actions and admitting to the wrongs that he'd done, he found it easier to give himself over to someone else's bidding so as not take responsibility for his actions. Kind of an all or nothing mentality. I've done one bad thing so I may as well be bad through and through. He was weak and a coward. He knew what he was doing, and he knew that he was wrong. He just didn't have the strength to stop it.

[Rishi]

I know G.L wanted us to see Anikans fall to evil (dark side) but all I saw was an easily fooled, weak willed child who didnt know what he was doing.

Movies 1-3 were all pretty bad for me, relying more on Special effects and having really weak plots, dialog and characters.

Yup ^

I wrote a bunch of notes a couple months back on how to improve the episodes, but I'll share the short version:

Ep1 shouldn't be about the trade federation, it should be focussed on anakin's training once he's freed. About him actually BECOMING a jedi, not just being rescued in one episode and then being a jedi in the next one. Give us ESB / BB like training scenes, and show us the journey of the path he's chosen.

Ep2 should completely be about his descent to darkness. Basically, the godfather in space. Maybe his training is disallowed by the council and Sideous offers to resume it, maybe something else, I don't care. But he should have a real reason to switch sides.

Ep3 should be about Anakin acting as a (human, not mechanical) Sith Lord, and the extinction of the Jedi. And not by being shot in the back by some damn clones.

Infact, the whole clone war thing should be cut. The conflict of the clone wars isn't important, it's the role that these people play in them. And the Jedi shouldn't be this global police force. 20 years after these movies an Solo and others see the Force as a "hokey religion" and ancient ways. They should be more of a secret society imo.

Just some thoughts.

[Sloth7d]

I really did not understand his quick turn from "good to bad". Sure I guess it was established that he had a temper and that he was rather weak willed (Palpatine convincing Anakin in less than 10 seconds to chop off Duku's head) but evil.. he was not..



I don't know man. Between his preference to authoritarian rule, *****ing at Obiwan, and killing an entire tribe of sand peope including the women and children, I kind of got that he was always evil but just didn't know it yet.

[DarknessOfDeath]

For ep1, I would have had Anakin as a 15 year old, establish the fact that Obi wan wanted to train Anakin because he saw the potential withim him, introduce Amidala as Senator instead of Queen, Qui Gon will still have the same kind of role that he did in ep1, introduce Count Dooku and his leaving of the Jedi Order (should take place after the battle of Naboo and Qui Gon's death), Sidious should be more of a background character cause to me, I knew from the first scene with him in ep1, that was really Palpatine. I think his character, his presence should have been more of a mystery and a secret thus having Darth Maul being in charge throughout the movie. Introduce Jango Fett. Near the end, establish that a war is brewing (clone wars)...

As far as ep2 is concerned, cut the 10 year gap to about 2 and half to 3 and a half years making Anakin about 17 and a half or 18 and a half. Our heros are now caught in the mist of the Great Clone Wars. Anakin falls in love with Amidala...Obi wan becomes the brother/father figure Anakin never had, Anakin goes back to Tatoonie to find his mother, etc... near the end, our heros find themselves in life and death situations...

Ep3 will take place 3-4 years after ep2 and one thing I would change is the reason Amidala dies and why Anakin turns to the darkside. I'd would have preferred if Palpatine sent Anakin on a mission where he uncovers this raw energy of dark side power and only then he finds himself consumed with the power - the power to not only find a way to save his wife but to stop the war, and Amidala finds him and tries to stop him and then Obi wan comes in and Anakin and Obi fight...

Oh and one more thing for ep1, I would probably have Anakin join the Republic military and maybe introduce Tarkin or Captain Needa or some high ranking officer lols.

I've been trying to do my own re-write but I haven't had the time to finish it all. I also had ideas that Anakin did have a father and that he left him and his mother. I always thought of him as a mercenary who didn't know he had a power (the force) within himself but it makes sense cause of his luck and survival when he's out there in the galaxy performing all kinds of dangerous tasks and missions to keep the galaxy safe for Anakin who might someday grow into his own and become like his father. Though, Anakin's father never wanted to become a Jedi Knight but in my own story, he does bump into Yoda whom he befriends and Yoda recognizes the potential within and teaches the basics to him or something like that. At some point, Anakin's father disappears...and not sure why yet.

Anyway, I think it would add more emotion if Anakin discovered what happened to his father and his anger about the truth and secrets the Jedi kept from Anakin concerning the whereabouts of his father would only push him further down the path of the dark side.

So yeah...thats my idea.

I think if George had taken enough time to write a really good story, his ideas and development would have been as close to mine...cause in all, what I have been trying to do is connect ideas and scenes to that of the original trilogy, to make sense of what might have happened during the dark times, before the clone wars and how every character connects with each other, how they interact, how they came into each other's lives. Quotes from the OT I find are pretty helpful too cause then you know exactly what and who you are writing about.

Like I said, I started this idea a long time ago ( I think last year) but all I know is that I didn't get very far. Though I had help and advice from fellow fan writers but again, I dunno if I'll continue this SW writing thing cause I know I'll never finish it. lol.

[Firm]

You can't cut out the clone wars, they even talk about them during ANH so it's important to see them.

[Evil Twin]

As long as we're playing "What if"

Ep 1

Make Anakin older. Heck, start him at Luke's age for contrast. You can leave the racing, etc. in as that's relatable. Also get the Padme/Anakin romance started earlier, emphasize the Anakin/Obi Wan friendship, and start to show that Anakin doesn't have his emotions under control.

I think it also would have worked better leading into the Clone Wars.

Ep 2

This really should have been about the Clone Wars. Really emphasize the Anakin/Padme romance and the strain it's putting on Anakin. And the rift growing between Anakin and the Jedis, with Obi Wan being his friend and trying to keep him on the right path.

Ep 3

Other than the acting and dialogue, there's not much wrong with the basic plot. But I agree, that we don't need to see the birth of Vader that much.

[DarknessOfDeath]

You can't cut out the clone wars, they even talk about them during ANH so it's important to see them.

What? I never mentioned anything about cutting the clone war aspect out of it. lol. I was talking more about the character development and story part between Anakin and Obi wan and as well as Anakin's relation to the people he came into contact in his life time before he became Darth Vader. The OT talks about that a lot through what Obi wan has told Luke but again, only from a certain point of view.


As long as we're playing "What if"

Ep 1

Make Anakin older. Heck, start him at Luke's age for contrast. You can leave the racing, etc. in as that's relatable. Also get the Padme/Anakin romance started earlier, emphasize the Anakin/Obi Wan friendship, and start to show that Anakin doesn't have his emotions under control.

I think it also would have worked better leading into the Clone Wars.

Ep 2

This really should have been about the Clone Wars. Really emphasize the Anakin/Padme romance and the strain it's putting on Anakin. And the rift growing between Anakin and the Jedis, with Obi Wan being his friend and trying to keep him on the right path.

Ep 3

Other than the acting and dialogue, there's not much wrong with the basic plot. But I agree, that we don't need to see the birth of Vader that much.

I agree that by the end of episode 1 should have led directly into the Clone Wars.

[Kurosawa]

All of this is more along the lines of fan fiction and not ideas for improving the movies more or less as they were. Warts and all I still pretty much would rather have the story as the creator of the series envisioned it than some fan fic ideas. Not that the movies are perfect, but at least they were done by the series creator.

[DarknessOfDeath]

True, but if there was one or a few things that needed improving and more time on, it would have to be the writing, planning and development of each episode.

[Warhammer]

You know what I wanted in the prequels?

I wanted the Anakin Skywalker that Obi-Wan Kenobi described to Luke Skywalker. The greatest pilot in the galaxy. This powerful rising Jedi who became stronger than almost everyone else. The person who was SEDUCED by the dark side of the force. The character we were supposed to love and root for, so when he eventually becomes seduced by the dark side and turns against the Jedi, the change has such a huge dramatic feel to it that the audience thinks "Oh my God" and becomes mezmorized by what is occuring on the screen.

We didn't even get half of that. :down

[DarknessOfDeath]

You know what I wanted in the prequels?

I wanted the Anakin Skywalker that Obi-Wan Kenobi described to Luke Skywalker. The greatest pilot in the galaxy. This powerful rising Jedi who became stronger than almost everyone else. The person who was SEDUCED by the dark side of the force. The character we were supposed to love and root for, so when he eventually becomes seduced by the dark side and turns against the Jedi, the change has such a huge dramatic feel to it that the audience thinks "Oh my God" and becomes mezmorized by what is occuring on the screen.

We didn't even get half of that. :down


Exactly Warhammer. Knowing what I knew throughout the OT, I was hoping that the PT would establish those connections that were presented in ANH, ESB and ROTJ but you are right, we only got half of it.

When I first started doing a bit of re-writing myself, I went back to what I knew about every character and the reason for their existence. I focused more on what Obi wan had told Luke about his father in ROTJ, how he was amazed by how strong the force was with him and that he thought he could train him just as well as Yoda.

Well anyway, I think I may have the file of a scene I was working on a while back about obi wan convincing Yoda that he is capable of training Anakin and that if anything happened, he would take full responsibility for his actions and as well as his pride.

I used to be a die hard SW fan back in the day but I dunno, with the prequels been done and all, there really isn't anything to look forward to. Besides playing the games countless times, I used to read the expanded universe novels. If only someone could make a film adaptation of the Thawn Trilogy, that would be kinda interesting to see how it is handled or do the X-wing series.

[DawnWarrior]

To DarknessOfDeath:
I’m just spitballing here, but while reading your rundown I thought of this: what if Anakin’s father turns out to be Count Dooku? I’m not positive on it, but why don’t you try dropping that into your rewrite plot and stirring.

The one thing, IMO, that could have solved nearly every other problem in the PT was to have all three movies directed by someone other than Lucas. ‘Empire’ was the best one of all and was directed by Irvin Kirshner. ‘Jedi,’ which doesn’t seem so bad now, was directed by the late Richard Marquand. It wouldn’t matter if they had one director for the whole trilogy or a different guy for each episode, there are dozens of working directors in Hollywood who would have been chomping at the bit for a chance to get a Star Wars movie on their resume.

I have no objection to the notion that the PT needed a Han Solo type, though I’m having trouble seeing it myself. In a way, they tried to make Ben Kenobi that character in EpII and III, which came off a bit weird.

I’m of the opinion that Hayden is a good actor (see "Shattered Glass") who was saddled with bad writing and terrible direction from George "Faster/More-Intense" Lucas. We know that Portman is good ("V for Vendetta," "Closer") and she doesn’t fare much better with the material.

The plot to create the Clone Army in EpII needs an overhaul; it’s so convoluted and full of holes that I can’t believe anyone would fall for it. Again, I’ll have to let someone else come up with that one.

I wonder if R2 and 3PO should have been kept out of the prequels altogether. It helps establish continuity, sure, but maybe the prequels needed their own pair of bickering robots.

The clearest adjustment I can see is with Anakin in EpI. Someone suggested making him older, Padme’s age, and I’m down with that (we would basically get Hayden, or whomever, for all three films instead of two). Someone else suggested making him more rebellious, and I’m down with that too. More specifically, I would make him more of a bad-ass. This is a guy who’s been kicked around his whole life living as a slave, so he’s got a bad attitude and a chip on his shoulder. So he’s got some anger issues. We would also find that he acts differently around his mom than he does around anyone else; a little more human, kinder, whatever. He takes a shine to Padme, who is intrigued by him being a bit of a bad-ass. As they click, we find that Anakin softens up a bit around Padme, the same way he used to around his mom. Padme becomes convinced, as any girl attracted to a bad boy does, that she can "save" Anakin.

The first scene between Anakin and Padme, for ex, could become more flirtatious and less creepy, while keeping most of the dialogue as it is. From Anakin’s point of view, he’s just having a chat with a fellow servant, while the queen/senator-in-disguise is surprised that this grease monkey has the balls to talk to her this way.

Do away with the Midi-chlorian nonsense. Have Qui-Gon examine Anakin’s blood and find what looks like a unique anomaly, if you will, that squares with the prophecy.

There's more, but I've got to take some time to collect it since all this stuff is still in my head.

[DarknessOfDeath]

Dawn, when I thought about writing about who and what Anakin's father was, the last thing I wanted to do was make an existing character within the sw universe to be Anakin's father. I thought making up a character would be something new and exciting for me because I never knew my real father and so I thought this would be an opportunity for me to identify through Anakin not knowing who his father was and I wrote a bit of backstory about this topic. As for Dooku, he's his own character as he is in ep2 and ep3 but I still think his role could have been expanded upon if he was in ep1 and we witness him leaving the jedi order after Qui gon's death.

And yeah I agree with everything you said in the rest of your post.

Also, unfortunately I lost that obi-wan/yoda file and the reason this happened was probably because I knew I wouldn't finish it.

[Jordacar]

Episode II

2) Keep Padme as Queen of Naboo: It's not the prom, you don't vote for who's gonna be queen.Here's what I think happened:
When George was just starting to come up with ideas for EpI, he figured "Leia=princess, Leia's mom=queen." It was probably as casual as that, and before long Padme being a queen had nothing to do with Leia being a princess.
Then EpII rolled around, and Padme still being queen was too constricting on what he wanted to do with the character, so he demoted her to senator, then explained it away with this weird left-field concept of the ruler of an entire planet getting a limited term.

Here's the solution: Galvanized by the events of EpI, Padme decides she's had it with being nothing but a figurehead and wants to take a more active role in the politics of her homeworld, so she steps down from the Naboo throne and becomes a senator instead (basically taking the vacant seat that Palpatine left when he became Chancellor.)

[DarknessOfDeath]

Well actually...I think it would have been even better if in ep1, Amidala was introduced as Senator and I think having her being a Queen should have been her backstory. So what I am saying is this: perhaps a year before ep1, Amidala was the Queen of Naboo and then at the start of ep1, she's a Senator.

Of course, her stepping down from the throne would be explained and why she decided to become a Senator. And...she'd be a young hot adult Senator... and I can't go any further than that. lols

[DawnWarrior]

Dawn, when I thought about writing about who and what Anakin's father was, the last thing I wanted to do was make an existing character within the sw universe to be Anakin's father. I thought making up a character would be something new and exciting for me because I never knew my real father and so I thought this would be an opportunity for me to identify through Anakin not knowing who his father was and I wrote a bit of backstory about this topic. As for Dooku, he's his own character.

And yeah I agree with everything you said in the rest of your post.

Also, unfortunately I lost that obi-wan/yoda file and the reason this happened was probably because I knew I wouldn't finish it.
Fair enough. It seemed like there was potential for a nice parallel, with Anakin discovering that his long-lost father was actually a Sith Lord whom he must destroy, just like Luke does later. But whatever.
And thank you.
When George was just starting to come up with ideas for EpI, he figured "Leia=princess, Leia's mom=queen." It was probably as casual as that, and before long Padme being a queen had nothing to do with Leia being a princess.
Then EpII rolled around, and Padme still being queen was too constricting on what he wanted to do with the character, so he demoted her to senator, then explained it away with this weird left-field concept of the ruler of an entire planet getting a limited term.
I never thought of that, but suddenly it makes sense. Princess Leia was raised by Bail "Bobby Simone" Organna, so she definitely didn't inherit her royal title from her bio-mom. And is there any nation on this planet that elects its royalty with term limits?

[DarknessOfDeath]

Fair enough. It seemed like there was potential for a nice parallel, with Anakin discovering that his long-lost father was actually a Sith Lord whom he must destroy, just like Luke does later. But whatever.
And thank you.




Well who knows really. Its all up in the air but I was considering that Anakin finds out the truth about the whereabouts of his long lost father. Maybe along the way as Anakin's father began to understand the power of the force, he was becoming stronger and maybe there was some darkness lurking inside of him? Whatever it was, it scared him and who knows if he went down that dark path? Maybe he tapped into the power of the dark side and it led to his death, which only Yoda would know and had kept secret from Anakin since he met him. But that is just an idea for now.

I always thought of Anakin's father as a mercenary who didn't know he had potential to use the force. He was the type who followed his own path and chose not to become like the Jedi are as we know them to be (not having any attachments, etc) because being a mercenary was the only thing he felt he was good at. Yet, he felt there was something else about him of the way he performed his duties and how he got lucky and how he survived during his missions. This would have explained why he was gifted...but then again...I dunno. The only thing that kept him going was the thought of his son he had to leave behind so he could help make the galaxy a safe place for Anakin when he, too, faces the same choices his father made.

[Castro]

I wish the prequels didn't exist and George let someone else direct-Darren Aronofsky-I feel he could have really made the downfall of Anikan amazing. Or of course Christopher Nolan.

Episode 1: Introduce Anikan already at around 20y.o. sorta like how kyle reese was introduced into Terminator Salvation where Obi runs into him. Let him and obi grow close through some conflict. Build to Anikan being persistent about wanting to become a jedi. I dunno-make it to where Yoda meditates on it and sees Anikan as savior and allows his training-but to be watched closely. (Yoda doesn't always have to be right). Train him much like Batman Begins, make it mental and physical tests like that one poster has already mentioned. Make the training like BB but make his introduction to the jedi way and lifestyle like...think The Last Samurai but in a Giant, amazing jedi temple. Find a way to add the start of the clone wars where Maul can be involved and where everyone goes to battle but Anikan is forced to stand down-of course he ignores and fights anyway and saving the day(no lightsaber) but feeling very cocky and Yoda is very displeased- he starts sensing bad feelings from Anikan. Obi kills Maul.

-More desert theme. Don't introduce so much cgi and all this technology that makes it look like ANH went 20 years in reverse. Keep it a little more simple as far as that goes. Focus on story-dialogue + good acting for the most part. Amazing Cinematography. Assassination of Jesse James like cinematography.


Episode 2: Years into the war. Make it just like we know what happened during WW2, the whole galaxy is in chaos. Very dark times. Anikan introduced now as a Jedi Knight and he's kicking azz, very cocky and bad boy ala solo. Introduce Anikan to Padme, show the chemistry-and growing closer once again through the war. Make them almost lose each other several times. This is the movie you make epic war scenes in space and on planets. Fill in the gaps with the obvious-the whole palps/sidious pulling his strings and so on..

-film it dark and gritty, everything in the prequals was so happy and so clean and bright. Even epIII.......make space dark, quiet and creepy sorta like Moon...so that when the big fights come, they stand out more imo.

Episode III: I'm not too sure. Battle torn Anikan growing more unstable-call it PTSD if you will, death all around him, reminding him of his mother(which should have been shown as dark time for him in a flashback in ep 1). +Stress of not seeing his pregnant wife in a long time. Anikan having been away fighting for so long-knows of Padme being pregnant and has constant struggle getting to her knowing the baby will be born soon. Find a way to tie him into a situation you see in every superhero movie-he has to make a choice to save padme or other innocent people. Padme dies. Find a way to make it where he thinks it's obi-s fault and he believes his child died with Padme but Padme had already given birth to twins. Not even obi knows. The already loss of his wife and what he thought a child is enough to push Anikan into darkness, have the darkside take over him but him confused. Yoda's only fight scene in the triliogy against Darth Sidious. I dunno, keep the whole relationship between Anikan and Palps thing throughout the triligoy and have sorta the same ending in ROTS basically i guess. Way better choreography in the final duel, waaaay less cgi. WAAAY more emotion. Show Obi just finding out about the twins. Yoda exile. Twins going there own ways, obi going into hiding. Final scene- Same scene where Anikan marches into the jedi Temple with clone troopers, only It's him donning the suit. Meaning don't ever show him or mention him being saved from the lava so the noobs can still be shocked when they find out who he is lolz. Have a different, quieter and darker version of Imperial March playing as they are marching into the Temple, Have the camera pan out behind them and as it's far away right b4 it goes to the end credits- Vader ignites his red saber b4 entering the temple. -When it cuts, keep the imperial march going instead of the usual happy jedi theme, this is the one movie where there is no happy ending and the audience knows the galaxy is in for one wild ride for the next 20 years.



Anikan Skywalker: Heath Ledger (of course) or Ben Foster(give him bulk) or Cillian Murphy
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Billy Crudup
Padme: Natalie Portman or anyone who had chemistry with Anikan lead.
Jano Fett: Cliff Curtis

Make Sam L Jackson a bad guy instead- a General or something.
Keep Liam Neeson but replacing Mace Windu.

[SchumacherFan]

Would these two have better chemistry than Natalie & Hayden (who had ZERO on screen chemistry)

Anakin Skywalker

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:rXYEMvtXm8bI1M:http://sugarkanetellsall.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/james_franco_1.jpg

Padme Amidala
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:HgdbqUGWpwyiNM:http://backseatcuddler.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/rachel_mcadams.jpg

[Kurosawa]

You know what I wanted in the prequels?

I wanted the Anakin Skywalker that Obi-Wan Kenobi described to Luke Skywalker. The greatest pilot in the galaxy. This powerful rising Jedi who became stronger than almost everyone else. The person who was SEDUCED by the dark side of the force. The character we were supposed to love and root for, so when he eventually becomes seduced by the dark side and turns against the Jedi, the change has such a huge dramatic feel to it that the audience thinks "Oh my God" and becomes mezmorized by what is occuring on the screen.

We didn't even get half of that. :down

I thought he was pretty likable in the first half of ROTS, and he was seduced by about the greatest power one could imagine.

Would these two have better chemistry than Natalie & Hayden (who had ZERO on screen chemistry)

Anakin Skywalker

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:rXYEMvtXm8bI1M:http://sugarkanetellsall.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/james_franco_1.jpg

Padme Amidala
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:HgdbqUGWpwyiNM:http://backseatcuddler.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/rachel_mcadams.jpg




No. Natalie is a good actress and she still couldn't pull Padme off completely, although she did better than Hayden, who just isn't any good. All of the acting issues in the prequels came from American actors who cannot handle greenscreen acting. They should have used all English actors, who have enough stage background to handle acting to nothing. Ewan was awesome in the prequels, as was Liam. It was the Americans-Natalie, Hayden, Jake Lloyd and Samuel L to a degree that didn't hold up their end.

[Jordacar]

Oh man, this is gold:
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[Deaths Head II]

I thought he was pretty likable in the first half of ROTS, and he was seduced by about the greatest power one could imagine.



No. Natalie is a good actress and she still couldn't pull Padme off completely, although she did better than Hayden, who just isn't any good. All of the acting issues in the prequels came from American actors who cannot handle greenscreen acting. They should have used all English actors, who have enough stage background to handle acting to nothing. Ewan was awesome in the prequels, as was Liam. It was the Americans-Natalie, Hayden, Jake Lloyd and Samuel L to a degree that didn't hold up their end.

Maybe they should just have less green screen.

[Sloth7d]

Oh man, this is gold:
FxKtZmQgxrI
ZG1AWVLnl48
IdQwKPVGQsY
SOlG4T1S2lU
TBvp1r2UpiQ
ORWPCCzSgu0
fIWKMgJs_Gs

:hehe:

Have you seen the Confused Matthew reviews. Just as hilarious.

[Bim]

Anikan Skywalker: Heath Ledger (of course) or Ben Foster(give him bulk) or

ANAKIN Skywalker :doh:

Sorry, but i'm really happy Lucas did his own thing and didnt listen to what people wanted. He wasnt gonna make everyone happy no matter what he did.

[DawnWarrior]

Watching Plinkett and Matthew's reviews, a few plot modifications occurred to me:
1) In episode I, maybe, just maybe, we should have watched Anakin hanging with his Mom on Tatooine way before Qui-Gon and the others arrived. That gives them a bit more screen time, and it helps set up what happens in #2.
2) In epI, instead of Qui-Gon concocting some hopelessly convoluted scheme to get the part they need and get Anakin off the planet, Qui-Gon simply threatens Wattoo with his lightsaber, and they're out of there in a jiff. Anakin somehow stows away on their ship, and it isn't until they're well on their way to Coruscant that Padme finds him hiding out in the ceiling vent or wherever. This would have some side effects: a) No podrace. But if that can't be fit into a plot that makes sense, there's no reason to keep it. b) It just about cuts EpI in half, but that time can be made up by showing more of the Clone Saga later. c) It does away with the whole bomb-in-the-brain plot device, which was only their to explain why Anakin and his mom can't just leave and is never brought up again anyway. In this scenario, Anakin didn't leave because he never had the opportunity until now. Qui and Obi decide that taking him back to Tattooine would be a waste of precious time, and then later examine his blood, find the anomoly I mentioned earlier, and decide to put him in front of the council.
3) In epII, after Shmi dies and Anakin slaughters the Sand People, he doesn't tell Padme about it. She knows he's hiding something, but he refuses to say what happend, and she, along with we in the audience, are left to wonder what exactly went down after Shmi died, and Anakin lets this horrible act fester in him all the way into EpIII on Mustafar when he finally reveals to her that he slaughtered the whole village, and that's why he was so upset. In between EpII and III, there could be fan theories about what happened in the village, until it's finally revealed. Then Padme doesn't look like a plot-convenient psycho for trusting, loving, and marrying a confessed mass murderer.

[DarknessOfDeath]

ANAKIN Skywalker :doh:

Sorry, but i'm really happy Lucas did his own thing and didnt listen to what people wanted. He wasnt gonna make everyone happy no matter what he did.

I am glad he did too, but I still think he should have taken his time and planned everything carefully - develop the characters more and expand on what was said about the characters from what we know and heard in the OT, ie: Obi wan and Anakin's relationship. If I were him, I would have done just that but wtf, I'm not George Lucas.

:oldrazz:

What really killed the prequels was the ten year gap between ep1 and ep2. The timeline should have been at least 2 and a half - 3 and half years between 1 and 2 and 3-4 years between 2 and 3.

Anakin would have been 16 years old at the time of ep1( but turns 17 near the end of ep1) , 18 and a half or 20 and a half years old in ep2...then by ep3, he'd be 23 or 24.

[TMC1982]

I thought he was pretty likable in the first half of ROTS, and he was seduced by about the greatest power one could imagine.



No. Natalie is a good actress and she still couldn't pull Padme off completely, although she did better than Hayden, who just isn't any good. All of the acting issues in the prequels came from American actors who cannot handle greenscreen acting. They should have used all English actors, who have enough stage background to handle acting to nothing. Ewan was awesome in the prequels, as was Liam. It was the Americans-Natalie, Hayden, Jake Lloyd and Samuel L to a degree that didn't hold up their end.

I thought Hayden was from Canada.:cwink:

[DarknessOfDeath]

^^ He is from Canada. :)

[SchumacherFan]

Everyone sort of has their own vision of how to make the prequels better, but I believe every story has been done before (Hidden Fortress was A New Hope).

I figured, better just completely change the prequels. A lot of people want small changes, like just change an actor. I want to change the complete story....

I'll get ripped a new one for my ideas, but I like it...Here are just some ideas off the top of my head..

Episode I - I would want to model after The Seven Samurai & Aladdin. Make Padme a real queen, and she escapes the evil Federation (led by the talented Gary Oldman) into Tatooine. Anakin is an orphan (16-17, not 9! - played by Robert Pattinson to gain massive fan girls, no twilight fan but the guy has a dark side...). Anakin has no mom or pop... Just a slumdog, with his best friend who is his equal, Owen Larrs, who share different dreams of their future, Larrs a successful farmer, Anakin a starpilot. Padme is all alone in this dangerous city in tatooine, Anakin saves her life by some danger and protects her and begins to have feelings for her. Obi Wan comes in to retrieve Padme. That's where Obi / Anakin meet. Obi recongnizes his talent and brings him to the Jedi. Then the second half of the film would be all Naboo, seven Jedi have to take out the enemies. Problem is Darth Maul is part of the Federation and starts picking off Jedi one by one. That leads to the ultimate battle at the climax, Obi vs. Maul, where Maul wins. But then Yoda is FINALLY revealed (after all this talk of how bad ass he is) and thats where the audience is like, whao , Yoda is in this movie and he messes up Darth Maul, chop off a limb or two, he barely escapes.....Like Vader in A New Hope, he just leaves.... No Qui Gon Jinn, sorry, but that character should have been Obi Wan to begin with... Expand on Samuel Jackson character, like he's a powerful Jedi that doesnt agree with protecting Naboo cuz he's an a-hole, but character arc is that he fully supports it at the end.

Episode II - A SERIOUS forbidden love. Model after Titanic & Escape from New York. First part of the movie is on Corcusant. Total Love story, a real one, not just cheap scenes like AOTC. The Federation is getting close to build this 'Space Station that can destroy planets'. Republic needs to stop this before they suceed. Metaphor for Weapons of mass destruction. The Chancellor (Gabriel Byrne) is on a ship that is attacked and lands in the Federation tied planet, Genosis (not the same Genosis - make it a rock planet, but a wasteland, like a planet that used to be like Naboo , but after a civil war , Federation won and its just a crap waste planet) - right out of Escape from New York. Danger everywhere. Iraq / Iran, whatever you wanna call it. Chancellor is there. Jedi send Obi Wan and a few Jedi to find him. Of course, a surprise attack happens, Obi Wan is sole survivor and has his own adventure to rescure the Chancellor in this desert wasteland planet. On Corcusaunt, Anakin is assigned to protect Senator Palpation because he's up for election in case something happens to the Chancellor. Anakin sneaks off in the middle of the night, goes around with Padme. Even sneak off to some exotic locations in the huge city. Their first kiss should be in some Star Wars opera with soft musical score.. The Jedi are totally against this because it could lead to badddd things. Jedi wants Anakin to do his job and thats it. No hanky panky on the side. Queen is there to legally get married and establish the new king, some jerk.. But of course at the end of the movie, its revealed that she chooses Anakin at the end of the day. Obi rescues Chancellor, but then Darth Maul returns and captures them both. He takes off to Kamino where Federation leader, Gary Oldman is at. Kamino will be the third and final chapter of this story.. Basically, Anakin is near this great love with Padme, but learns the location of Obi Wan and Chancellor. Then, Anakin arc is that he decides that he will stay true to the Jedi and leave Padme to do his job. The Jedi race off to Kamino, but there is this enormous space battle, many Jedi starships gets destroyed, except Anakin who is able to fly through the insane space battle (hence he was the greatest star pilot in the galaxy). The climax of the film is of course, Anakin Skywalker vs. Darth Maul, the sith lord that the Jedi were OBSESSED with finding... He kills Darth Maul on Kamino, I envision a crazy rain storm outside, they could battle in the rain and then all the way to some power generator from TPM (which wouldn't be in my episode 1, that was a cool location and visual scene, save it for the climax of the clone war). After Anakin Skywalker kills Darth Maul, captures General of the Federation. Boom, huge wedding , millions of people, Padme & Anakin. Jedi are there, but watch from a distance, kinda upset about it, but dont ***** or complain since anakin succeeded in killing the most power sith at the time (they dont know about palpatine). The arc of Chancellor is that he resigns because the Federation is defeated, the Clone War is over, Palpatine gets elected....And thats that...

Episode III -

[8wid]

Here is my take on the events that lead to the transition, not fall of the Republic into the Empire. Let me know what you think.

80 BBY - An illegal experiment taken out by corrupt senators, with industrial and military special interests in the Republic, covertly sell secrets of advanced cloning technology to Mandalorian War Lords in turn for a huge bribe.

75 BBY -The Mandalorians cloning experiment fails, their armies mutiny, and begin a war path of destruction across the galaxy. Soon the Mandalorian forces are overrun by their own clone creations.

75 BBY - Clones become free-thinking and begin to raid and ravage worlds within the territory of the Republic to build an army.

75 BBY - The treacherous senators are exposed for their crimes in the heat of war. Anger and dissent for the republic begins after this, and the enormous destruction that has already resulted from clone raids.

75 BBY - Republic military engages the clone threat and becomes deadlocked because of guerilla tactics.

72 BBY - First Clone War ends in cease fire.

70 BBY - Second Clone War begins after Clone second clone invasion into the republic.

65 BBY - Second Clone War ends with minor Republic victory.

64 BBY - Third Clone War begins after Clone ressurgence.

60 BBY - Third Clone War ends with second cease fire.

55 BBY - Fourth Clone War begins after Republic aggression provokes conflict.

54 BBY - Order of the Jedi intervenes at the request of the Galactic Senate.

Fourth Clone War intensifies, becoming the bloodiest of all conflicts, combined, as desperation because of swift losses in the Clone ranks turns attacks on civilians targets, planet hostage taking, and genocide, become abundant tactics.

50 BBY - Clone Wars end with complete Republic victory.

49 BBY - Galactic Depression begins in wake of a severe economic downturn including a nearly bankrupt central treasury, food and supply shortages, overwhelming war repairs, inflation, increased rioting and civil strife. Dissent from mismanagement during years of war by the Senate, corruption scandals before and during wartime, increased violence because of Jedi intervention, besides poor general response to economic problems.

35 BBY - Imperial Cou takes place after, famed war hero, former Jedi Master and high-ranking Republic General, marches his army on Coruscant and seizes the Senate house. The Galactic Senate appoints Palpatine as the new president and ousts the former one.

35 BBY - The Galactic Civil War begins after multiple and different, Separatist factions declare their independence from the Republic, and assault the Republic Navy. Many of these worlds are non-human alien and harbor large colonies of Jedi.

35-30 BBY - Palpatine becomes president for life, and is voted many emergency, and other executive powers as a result of the new conflict. The newly annointed Imperial Navy and stormtroopers are created with some of these new powers.

By this time, most sentiment for democractic values has dissolved across the Galaxy.

30 BBY - Galactic Empire declared out of the former Galactic Republic.

30 BBY - Newly annointed Darth Vader takes command of the Imperial Navy.

30 BBY - Jedi declared traitors and enemies of the state for allegdedly aiding Separatist forces and for war crimes, beginning the Great Jedi Purge. Any worlds harboring Jedi also are labeled traitors and declared enemies. Many alien species are enslaved or exterminated as a result, including the Wookies on Kashyyk.

18 BBY - Imperial military forces managed to overrun and defeat most separatist armies, as well as other conquest across the Galaxy. The Rebel Alliance forms under Bail Organa after many years of hesistation to use violence to resolve diplomatic issues, and continues the war alone, but as the most succesful.

[Infinity9999x]

You know what I wanted in the prequels?

I wanted the Anakin Skywalker that Obi-Wan Kenobi described to Luke Skywalker. The greatest pilot in the galaxy. This powerful rising Jedi who became stronger than almost everyone else. The person who was SEDUCED by the dark side of the force. The character we were supposed to love and root for, so when he eventually becomes seduced by the dark side and turns against the Jedi, the change has such a huge dramatic feel to it that the audience thinks "Oh my God" and becomes mezmorized by what is occuring on the screen.

We didn't even get half of that.

This is what I've been saying for a while. I agree completely :up:

When I watched the OT, in ROTJ when Darth saves Luke, I always thought "Wow, he must have been a good guy that just had loads of crap happen to him." After watching the prequels...well, the Anakin I saw, let's just say I'm kinda surprised he saved Luke at the end of ROTJ.

I wanted Anakin to be a really likeable character. And one great idea I heard was to make Anakin the Han Solo of the prequels. In Episode one have Anakin be a young smuggler (late teens) that Obi Wan and Qi Gon run into. They realize the guy has a strong apitude for the force, but he's wayyyyy to old to be trained (the same way Luke was wayyy to old). Make Anakin a more gruff, likeable, down to earth guy that we really care for. And someone we really feel for when he's finally seduced by the dark side.

[DarknessOfDeath]

This is what I've been saying for a while. I agree completely :up:

When I watched the OT, in ROTJ when Darth saves Luke, I always thought "Wow, he must have been a good guy that just had loads of crap happen to him." After watching the prequels...well, the Anakin I saw, let's just say I'm kinda surprised he saved Luke at the end of ROTJ.

I wanted Anakin to be a really likeable character. And one great idea I heard was to make Anakin the Han Solo of the prequels. In Episode one have Anakin be a young smuggler (late teens) that Obi Wan and Qi Gon run into. They realize the guy has a strong apitude for the force, but he's wayyyyy to old to be trained (the same way Luke was wayyy to old). Make Anakin a more gruff, likeable, down to earth guy that we really care for. And someone we really feel for when he's finally seduced by the dark side.


Thats what I've been saying too. As for Amidala, scrap the Queen part and make that as her backstory but introduce her as a Senator.

I think I even wrote a scene between Anakin and Amidala a while back just for writting practice. heh...

[DawnWarrior]

I think I even wrote a scene between Anakin and Amidala a while back just for writting practice. heh... I hope you can find that scene, because I'd like to read it.

[DarkSovereignty]

i would have just loved to see an altercation between darth vader and yoda. Whether it be a straght up lightsaber duel or a force battle of wills. 'Cause Vader (well, anakin technically) is described by obi won as being the most powerful jedi he ever met IIRC, would have been cool to see him go up against a master of yoda's caliber.

[Kurosawa]

ANAKIN Skywalker :doh:

Sorry, but i'm really happy Lucas did his own thing and didnt listen to what people wanted. He wasnt gonna make everyone happy no matter what he did.

Lucas said before he even made the original in 1977 that the prequels wouldn't be as commercially appealing due to the complexity of the story and it's content. Fanfiction stuff is fun, but it is just that-fanfiction. Lucas version is the real story from the series creator.

I thought Hayden was from Canada.:cwink:

Good, pawning him off on Canada is +1 for the USA.

[Jordacar]

Lucas said before he even made the original in 1977 that the prequels wouldn't be as commercially appealing due to the complexity of the story and it's content. Fanfiction stuff is fun, but it is just that-fanfiction. Lucas version is the real story from the series creator. There's a story? Could've fooled me...:hehe:

[DarknessOfDeath]

I hope you can find that scene, because I'd like to read it.


Interesting enough, I do have it still. I wrote another scene between Obi wan and Yoda where they talk about what to do with Skywalker. Obi wan insists that he trains him, not only because of Qui Gon's word but because he thought he could be as good as a teacher than Master Yoda. Also, he has taken a liking to Anakin and as a friend, he'd be more than willing to look after him. Much to Yoda's dismay, the little green Jedi Master agrees but warns Obi wan of how clouded the boy's future is. If all else fails in the training of Skywalker, Obi wan tells Yoda he would take full responsibility of his actions and pride if anything were to happen.

This is all taken from Obi Wan's words when he appears as a force ghost in ROTJ on Dagobah and reveals the truth behind Anakin's downfall and what led him to became Darth Vader.

I don't think I have that file anymore. Sadly, but it was nice doing a bit of writing practice though and try to get a sense of Obi wan's POV (point of view) and how every event that took place in his life had changed him to the man we first met in A New Hope whom we've come to know as Ben Kenobi.

I love getting deep into character. When I write, I go into as much detail as I possible can. It takes time but patience is well worth the process. Like Yoda would say, patience for a Jedi it is time to eat as well. lols.

haha :lmao:

[Kurosawa]

There's a story? Could've fooled me...:hehe:

:whatever:

[SchumacherFan]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2lat2lk.jpg

Robert Pattinson as Anakin Skywalker ? ? ? ? ? ?

Would make the insecure jealous comic geeks angry, but the kid has acting ability and seems to have dark side to him that could make a good Anakin.

[8wid]

Why does Qui-Gon even need to be in the prequels? Last time I checked, Yoda was the one who instructed Kenobi. Why does Luke have a feeling of being on Degobah before? Why does Obi-Wan not tell Luke about his mother as he does Anakin? That's one example of many continuity issues that Lucas failed to connect when doing the prequels.

[Sloth7d]

The Forbidden Love, eh? I would still hate that movie but at least the title makes sense now.

[SchumacherFan]

The Forbidden Love, eh? I would still hate that movie but at least the title makes sense now.

If wrote a treatment, it probably would suck in most people's eyes because I'm not a professional writer, but could it really be any worse than Attack of the Clones ? ?

My vision of the film is a real forbidden love, like with actual scenes where the Jedi tell Anakin 'NO, YOU CANT DO THAT'.

In attack of the clones, it seems anakin was just relaying the rules of the jedi code. He could have broke them because there were no scenes where actual jedi like Obi Wan were telling him 'You can NOT do that'. I mean, if you're going to make Anakin a whiny teenager, why not construct the Jedi order as 'parent' like.

In my story, Anakin goes behind the Jedi back, sneaks in her apartment, etc..

Robert Pattinson or James Franco are my choices for Anakin. I didn't have a problem with Hayden, but everyone hated him so much, I would honestly switch it to Franco or the Harry Potter / Twilight kid.

[SchumacherFan]

Why does Qui-Gon even need to be in the prequels? Last time I checked, Yoda was the one who instructed Kenobi. Why does Luke have a feeling of being on Degobah before? Why does Obi-Wan not tell Luke about his mother as he does Anakin? That's one example of many continuity issues that Lucas failed to connect when doing the prequels.

Totally agree. I am a huge fan of Liam Neeson (Taken, Batman Begins, Kingdom of Heaven anyone? He's talented actor) but to make him steal all of Obi Wan's scenes and made him the main character was not a good idea.

Obi Wan should have been on Tatooine and discovered Anakin. My idea would have been keep Qui Gon Jinn, but as a secondary role. Have him be Yoda's top student who now runs the Jedi Council. Have Yoda not even on screen. He's studying abroad in different systems, hes not even on Coruscant, imo. He should have been a myth, not even sure if he exists in the first one. Only a few characters actually met him in real life.

The sad part of the Prequels is every other department except George Lucas did an amazing job. The CGI was okay (too much, but thats Lucas fault), the casting director did well except anakin which was once again prolly Lucas' decision. The art department did an amazing job. The actors such as Liam, Natalie, Samuel Jackson, Ewan did the best with the material they had to work with.. Just the story / Characters sucked and the directing was bad. Lucas was rusty as a film maker.

[8wid]

I have one way to prevent the continuity error for the lame renaming Kenobi gave himself while on Tatooine. "Obi-Wan" is just a nickname meaning something special, while Ben is his real name. Perhaps it's a heroic title from combat.

[Kurosawa]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2lat2lk.jpg

Robert Pattinson as Anakin Skywalker ? ? ? ? ? ?

Would make the insecure jealous comic geeks angry, but the kid has acting ability and seems to have dark side to him that could make a good Anakin.

Replace emo with even more emo and at least Hayden had something of a physical presence? Downgrade. Wretched title too, even worse than Attack of the Clones which at least has a movie serial feel.

Unlike Avatar/Cameron fans I maintain some degree of realism towards Lucas, even though I am one of the few Lucas/Prequel defenders around. He needed an extraordinary actor to deal with the copious amounts of cheese that came from Anakin and Hayden wasn't up to it. I don't know what young actor could have done better with what they were given to be honest, but it's Lucas story and I would rather see it as he intended it to be.

I have one way to prevent the continuity error for the lame renaming Kenobi gave himself while on Tatooine. "Obi-Wan" is just a nickname meaning something special, while Ben is his real name. Perhaps it's a heroic title from combat.

I don't see how it is a continuity error, more like an unanswered question. As a Jedi he went by Obi-Wan, on Tatooine he went by Ben. Why has never been exactly stated.

[Asteroid-Man]

Based on the OT here are the basics:
Leia knew her mother
Luke did not know either of his parents
The Clone Wars were very well known
There was a period of utter darkness between the Republic and the Empire
Obi-Wan was around the same age as Luke when he began his training
Obi-Wan trained Anakin
Obi-Wan and Anakin were very close (notice how Vader doesn't even mention Padme yet he mentions Obi-Wan constantly)
Yoda trained Obi-Wan
Anakin turned due to a lust for power
Owen seems jealous of Anakin

[Sloth7d]

If wrote a treatment, it probably would suck in most people's eyes because I'm not a professional writer, but could it really be any worse than Attack of the Clones ? ?

My vision of the film is a real forbidden love, like with actual scenes where the Jedi tell Anakin 'NO, YOU CANT DO THAT'.

In attack of the clones, it seems anakin was just relaying the rules of the jedi code. He could have broke them because there were no scenes where actual jedi like Obi Wan were telling him 'You can NOT do that'. I mean, if you're going to make Anakin a whiny teenager, why not construct the Jedi order as 'parent' like.

In my story, Anakin goes behind the Jedi back, sneaks in her apartment, etc..

Robert Pattinson or James Franco are my choices for Anakin. I didn't have a problem with Hayden, but everyone hated him so much, I would honestly switch it to Franco or the Harry Potter / Twilight kid.

Oh no. I thought you were just renaming the movie, after all "Attack of the Clones" doesn't really make sense when there's barely any footage of clones attacking nor are they attacking the good guys. Didn't know you had an idea behind it. I'm not sure about the casting though other than the fact that either would be better than Hayden. Don't get me wrong, I like them both as actors, but unless they could convince Lucas to tweak the dialogue into something less wooden and whiny, then they really have nothing to work with.

[Warhammer]

Based on the OT here are the basics:
Leia knew her mother
Luke did not know either of his parents
The Clone Wars were very well known
There was a period of utter darkness between the Republic and the Empire
Obi-Wan was around the same age as Luke when he began his training
Obi-Wan trained Anakin
Obi-Wan and Anakin were very close (notice how Vader doesn't even mention Padme yet he mentions Obi-Wan constantly)
Yoda trained Obi-Wan
Anakin turned due to a lust for power
Owen seems jealous of Anakin

I don't care what excuse anyone (including Lucas) has, how did the prequels NOT pay attention to these two?

:o

[Asteroid-Man]

I mean they kinda tried in the last little bit of ROTS when Anakin says he turned for his new powers to save padme and also how Yoda gives Obi-Wan the training for Tatooine. But it was pretty damn forced.

[SchumacherFan]

I mean they kinda tried in the last little bit of ROTS when Anakin says he turned for his new powers to save padme and also how Yoda gives Obi-Wan the training for Tatooine. But it was pretty damn forced.

Forced and Rushed, imo....

I don't know about you guys but the Prequels are depressing movies because of what they could have been.

Star Wars OT are on the same level as Gone with the Wind, Casablanca, LOTR trilogy, Citizen Kane - real classic stories about basic human emotions and great story.

Star Wars Prequel are on par with Transformers, GI Joe, Terminator Salvation, etc.... Just a bunch of CGI shoved in a movie to try to make up for the lack of story , characters, cheesy plot, etc. I mean, they are FUN movies, but fun in a sense that you don't go to see it for plot or character arc. You go strictly for the special effects and crazy action.

Prequels could have had a trageic tale of a hero falling to the dark side, an epic romantic story with two people that are not suppose to fall in love, the sense of adventure for the greater good, new fascinating characters, the tale of two brothers where they end up fighting each other in the ultimate battle of bad and good.

Gungans, Nate Gunray, Boss Nass, Jar Jar, Tall Kamino aliens whose names I forgot because they were so forgettable, and I don't know any new characters they even introduced in Episode 3 except for Grevious who was there for reasons I'll never understand. Bad characters with no arcs.

[8wid]

What kind of power would Vader seek though?

[I'm Old Greg]

Aside from getting a better Anakin, I would have had him be much older in TPM, being around his age from AOTC so that it helps to really show the council's hesitancy to train him due to already having a preset moral compass from living as a slave.

I would have liked for Qui-Gon and Anakin to then develop a big mentor-apprentice relationship that would help further scar Anakin when Qui-Gon is killed and set the groundwork for his recklessness in AOTC and his turn to the darkside in ROTS. That could have been a powerful moment with Anakin helpless as he watches his father-figure murdered by Maul.

I'm not sure if I would like to have seen Maul in AOTC or not. It may have been interesting to watch Anakin kill Maul out of anger midway through and then only witness the unending cycle as Dooku steps in to take his place.

I've always wished that the prequels could have been done better because they had plenty of material to make a masterful second trilogy. My ideas may be no good, but I know that there are plenty of better ones out there than what Lucas came up with.

dude this is exactly how i thought it should have went!

I thought we were going to see Anikan grow up like Simba in the lion king, and I thought an older Anikan was going to kill Maul when Qui Gon was killed.
STAR WARS is dead to me, its ghost is the unedited original trilogy

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Replace Jar Jar with Ron Perlman, who would play a dishonored Mandalorian that quickly becomes friends with Obi-wan and Anakin. He would be a variation on the Han Solo character, but has psychological scars about some war (think Canderous Ordo from KOTOR). Anakin could murder him in Episode 3 for dramatic effect.

Also, they should have never shown the birth of Vader, rather just have Anakin die and Vader appear. Episode 3 ruins the spoiler of Empire Strikes Back.

Lose the CGI for practical effects and the prequels would have been much better.

i thought the same thing, it kills the fact that he's lukes father. I thought they shouldn't have shown Vader either. end it as a tragedy like Anikan Died, and the birth of Vader was showing him in the original trilogy...

man Lucas ****ed up his prequels.

[Kurosawa]

Forced and Rushed, imo....

I don't know about you guys but the Prequels are depressing movies because of what they could have been.

Star Wars OT are on the same level as Gone with the Wind, Casablanca, LOTR trilogy, Citizen Kane - real classic stories about basic human emotions and great story.

Star Wars Prequel are on par with Transformers, GI Joe, Terminator Salvation, etc.... Just a bunch of CGI shoved in a movie to try to make up for the lack of story , characters, cheesy plot, etc. I mean, they are FUN movies, but fun in a sense that you don't go to see it for plot or character arc. You go strictly for the special effects and crazy action.

Prequels could have had a trageic tale of a hero falling to the dark side, an epic romantic story with two people that are not suppose to fall in love, the sense of adventure for the greater good, new fascinating characters, the tale of two brothers where they end up fighting each other in the ultimate battle of bad and good.

Gungans, Nate Gunray, Boss Nass, Jar Jar, Tall Kamino aliens whose names I forgot because they were so forgettable, and I don't know any new characters they even introduced in Episode 3 except for Grevious who was there for reasons I'll never understand. Bad characters with no arcs.

Blah, blah same 10 year old complaints and guess what? These are the same kinds of complaints the OT got for being a "bunch of muppets" and Lucas was "obsessed with special effects". I have been a SW fan since 1977 and I heard ALL those complaints about the originals and worse. Not to mention a lot of the same people who have been whining over the prequels for years are now slobbering all over Avatar. The prequels and ESPECIALLY ROTS are light years past those movies you mentioned and anyone who is even remotely objective knows it. I know they aren't perfect, and neither was the OT. I like both sagas about the same, but for different reasons. But as with many other things, I do realize I am in the minority and my tendencies to not mindlessly follow the standard internet opinion irritates people. Sorry, I have this bad habit of thinking for myself.

[I'm Old Greg]

Oh man, this is gold:
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TBvp1r2UpiQ
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LMAO

Lucas and company in the screening looks of utter FAIL

[Kurosawa]

LMAO

Lucas and company in the screening looks of utter FAIL

Wow crying over Jar-Jar...how 1999. GET OVER IT

The sad ironic thing is...although there was no internet I remember the same kinds of people tearing ESB APART in 1980 over the same kinds of crap.

[Sloth7d]

Did you actually watch the videos? The only way people could make the same kinds of complaints this guy did about the original trilogy is if Luke was 10, the original was a prequel to another trilogy of SW films that were actually good, Lucas was as obsessed with special effects back then (based on his comment at the end of the 6th part that wasn't the case), the plot centered around vague taxation problems within a odd form of government, the first movie had no clear main character, among other things. Not the same complaints.

[I'm Old Greg]

Wow crying over Jar-Jar...how 1999. GET OVER IT

The sad ironic thing is...although there was no internet I remember the same kinds of people tearing ESB APART in 1980 over the same kinds of crap.


guy face it Lucas on his own is a Hack cause of his bloated neck ego no one will confront him on it,.

[DawnWarrior]

Based on the OT here are the basics:
Leia knew her mother
Luke did not know either of his parents
The Clone Wars were very well known
There was a period of utter darkness between the Republic and the Empire
Obi-Wan was around the same age as Luke when he began his training
Obi-Wan trained Anakin
Obi-Wan and Anakin were very close (notice how Vader doesn't even mention Padme yet he mentions Obi-Wan constantly)
Yoda trained Obi-Wan
Anakin turned due to a lust for power
Owen seems jealous of Anakin
I've been thinking about that last one, and maybe it would have helped if Owen was a character in EpI, and was friends with Anakin on Tatooine. Maybe helped him build the podracer or something. It would make more sense continuity-wise than saying that Anakin invented C3PO. Also, in the prequels as they are, Owen meets Anakin one time. It seems a stretch that the older Owen from Ep4 has all these opinions about Luke's old man from just one short meeting.

[Kurosawa]

Did you actually watch the videos? The only way people could make the same kinds of complaints this guy did about the original trilogy is if Luke was 10, the original was a prequel to another trilogy of SW films that were actually good, Lucas was as obsessed with special effects back then (based on his comment at the end of the 6th part that wasn't the case), the plot centered around vague taxation problems within a odd form of government, the first movie had no clear main character, among other things. Not the same complaints.

I'm not watching 7 videos of nerdloserboy whining when I've been hearing the same **** for 10 years.

The biggest whines I remember from the losers of the 80's who were also too ignorant to get it (because they had never studied literature or film):

Yoda as a muppet-they all wanted someone like Heston as Kenobi's master

Luke whining too much

C3PO talking too much, being annoying and in the movies too much (this same complaint was transferred to JJB since those kinds of people have no idea that a fool character is often used in these stories.

Vader as Luke's father being a lame soap opera idea

Luke getting too good as Jedi arts too quickly (duh Vader was clearly holding back in ESB)

Too much focus put on special effects

Corny dialogue

Obsession with muppets; I remember lots of people completely dismissing ROTJ as being junk

Constant comparisons with other movies of the time; I remember several fans who felt Clash of the Titans blew Empire away and was the movie Empire should have been.

The heroes lose too much

The heroes win too easily

And I could go on and on. The point being, there is not a SINGLE complaint that I have heard since 1999 about the Prequels that I did not hear ad nauseam about the originals from 1977 to 1983. It's like a ****ing broken record of ignorance and fail.

[Sloth7d]

Then all I can say is that you really can't comment if you didn't hear what he said, as none of what you pointed out about the originals is what he's saying here. Just the same, hiding behind the criticism of the Originals to disregard the criticism of the prequels is a bad stand point, especially given that you're talking to people who liked the originals but not the prequels.

I digress, but one thing I'd liked to ask directly is "Do you really think the puppets weren't a bit distracting in the beginning of RotJ?" I don't believe this ruined the film at all, but it seems a legit criticism. It's just hard to take such obviously stationary/difficult to move objects seriously in an atmosphere where we're supposed to feel dread at the sight of them.

[Octoberist]

Wow crying over Jar-Jar...how 1999. GET OVER IT

The sad ironic thing is...although there was no internet I remember the same kinds of people tearing ESB APART in 1980 over the same kinds of crap.

Nope.

I think the difference is that R2-D2 and C3PO were crucial to the first film; as they stuck around in Empire and Jedi, their brand of comic relief is enduring enough that it helps ease the tension or darker moments in the film. Also, though they were droids, they were good at what they did. C3PO was a protical droid and he did his job well. Hell, let's put Get Smart in here: Steve Carell's Max Smart was goofy but he was still competent at his job. Jar Jar was clumsy but also clueless at what the heck was going on in Episode 1.

Jar Jar..yeah it's been years since 1999, but he will always be that failed concept. If he wasn't , he would have been a bigger character in Episode 2 and 3. I just don't see any redeeming qualities in that character.

[SchumacherFan]

I agree with Octoberist.

Jar Jar did not work.

[Octoberist]

I love funny sidekicks when they work.

Look at Up. Look at Russell. I'm gonna use the word 'enduring' again. Wall-E. Hell, all of Pixar.

You can't just put goofy characters in there for fun. You have to make them work.

There's always a moment when the 'sidekick' realizes what he/she is up against. When he/she understands who the enemies are and they mean business. So they joke around when the times are appropriate but they don't act like COMPLETE morons when the heroes need their help.

I never got the sense Jar Jar had that in him. He was just a fool during that battle scene in Episode 1. He was like Mr. Magoo. Yes, he's childlike and maybe he understands what is in stake in broad strokes, but I never cared for him. Why? Because his role wasn't written correctly.

[Kurosawa]

Then all I can say is that you really can't comment if you didn't hear what he said, as none of what you pointed out about the originals is what he's saying here. Just the same, hiding behind the criticism of the Originals to disregard the criticism of the prequels is a bad stand point, especially given that you're talking to people who liked the originals but not the prequels.

I digress, but one thing I'd liked to ask directly is "Do you really think the puppets weren't a bit distracting in the beginning of RotJ?" I don't believe this ruined the film at all, but it seems a legit criticism. It's just hard to take such obviously stationary/difficult to move objects seriously in an atmosphere where we're supposed to feel dread at the sight of them.

I'm not watching 7 videos of some loser crying over TPM; I've heard every complaint about that movie that I could possibly imagine. I have better things to do with my time. And I don't think the muppets in the beginning of ROTJ are supposed to fill the viewer with dread; it's pretty clearly just a rehash of the cantina freak show.

Nope.

I think the difference is that R2-D2 and C3PO were crucial to the first film; as they stuck around in Empire and Jedi, their brand of comic relief is enduring enough that it helps ease the tension or darker moments in the film. Also, though they were droids, they were good at what they did. C3PO was a protical droid and he did his job well. Hell, let's put Get Smart in here: Steve Carell's Max Smart was goofy but he was still competent at his job. Jar Jar was clumsy but also clueless at what the heck was going on in Episode 1.

Jar Jar..yeah it's been years since 1999, but he will always be that failed concept. If he wasn't , he would have been a bigger character in Episode 2 and 3. I just don't see any redeeming qualities in that character.

Irrelevant. The same sorts of complaints people had about 3PO (R2 not so much) were made against JJB. Personally I could give or take him as a character, although I will say a character that is so universally hated by the kinds of people that I myself despise must have something going for it. JJB is NOT a silly sidekick; he a fool character, a staple of tragedies. That's a slight but significant difference.

I do wish Lucas had done a better job with JJB; it's pretty obvious he was trying to create his own Kyoami in him; and Kyoami did get on my nerves at times as well. He did have JJB discount the force to a certain degree, but the character was too childish. But I am glad they still used a fool character; it's too bad Lucas didn't quite pull it off.

[DawnWarrior]

I'm not watching 7 videos of some loser crying over TPM; I've heard every complaint about that movie that I could possibly imagine. I have better things to do with my time. And I don't think the muppets in the beginning of ROTJ are supposed to fill the viewer with dread; it's pretty clearly just a rehash of the cantina freak show.
Then stop commenting on them like you know what they're talking about, because you haven't brought up any of the major complaints mentioned in the video. Seriously, none.

Irrelevant. The same sorts of complaints people had about 3PO (R2 not so much) were made against JJB. Personally I could give or take him as a character, although I will say a character that is so universally hated by the kinds of people that I myself despise must have something going for it. JJB is NOT a silly sidekick; he a fool character, a staple of tragedies. That's a slight but significant difference.
And therein lies the key. While the original trilogy may have gone over some people's heads when they first came out, they have stood the test of time and become all-around classics. The prequels, despite doing glorious box-office business upon release, were derided and criticized heavily by audiences at the time, and in the 5-10 years since they came out, the complaints have gotten worse upon repeat viewings. The criticisms against the overall quality of the prequels are much more complex and expansive than you seem willing to acknowledge.

[Kurosawa]

Then stop commenting on them like you know what they're talking about, because you haven't brought up any of the major complaints mentioned in the video. Seriously, none.


And therein lies the key. While the original trilogy may have gone over some people's heads when they first came out, they have stood the test of time and become all-around classics. The prequels, despite doing glorious box-office business upon release, were derided and criticized heavily by audiences at the time, and in the 5-10 years since they came out, the complaints have gotten worse upon repeat viewings. The criticisms against the overall quality of the prequels are much more complex and expansive than you seem willing to acknowledge.

I'm not going to torment myself by watching some zit-faced loser cry over Star Wars for the 1,098,876,453th time. As for the rest, I'm glad you are lucky enough to have a time machine and were able to go 30 years in the future to report back on how history judges the Prequels.

Sorry, I do not mindlessly follow the crowd on how things are perceived, I make my own informed decisions. It's not my fault the people who saw the prequels don't know anything about 30 and 40's movies, movie serials, or tragedies and they just stick their fingers in their ears and go along with the majority opinion. I always consider adult and informed criticisms of the prequels when I hear it and in fact have made some myself, but I have no patience for ignorant kiddie whining about them.

[SchumacherFan]

The complaints against the Prequels are pretty much the same..

-too much cgi
-bad dialogue
-bad acting (lucas fault)
-no good new characters
-rehashing same characters from OT that had no reason to be the prequels
-poor constructed character arcs

[DawnWarrior]

I'm not going to torment myself by watching some zit-faced loser cry over Star Wars for the 1,098,876,453th time. As for the rest, I'm glad you are lucky enough to have a time machine and were able to go 30 years in the future to report back on how history judges the Prequels.

Sorry, I do not mindlessly follow the crowd on how things are perceived, I make my own informed decisions. It's not my fault the people who saw the prequels don't know anything about 30 and 40's movies, movie serials, or tragedies and they just stick their fingers in their ears and go along with the majority opinion. I always consider adult and informed criticisms of the prequels when I hear it and in fact have made some myself, but I have no patience for ignorant kiddie whining about them.
I dislike your implications that you're the only one who has sat down and examined the prequels carefully, or that you understand their hidden quality because you've watched "30's and 40's movies, movie serials or tragedies" (so have I), or that anyone who dislikes the prequels is merely "following the crowd."

[bullets]

Is the clone wars tv show any good? I thought about picking it up at walmart bu I didnt like the clone wars movie

[Kurosawa]

The complaints against the Prequels are pretty much the same..

-too much cgi
-bad dialogue
-bad acting (lucas fault)
-no good new characters
-rehashing same characters from OT that had no reason to be the prequels
-poor constructed character arcs

A LOT of what you think is CGI is actually models, plus people now slobber all over Avatar which is almost all CGI. This isn't 1980.

The dialogue is split in the PT, a lot of it is cheesy, some of it is good. I'd rewrite most of Anakin's lines.

The acting is again split-the English actors are all very good to great, the western actors not so much. It was Lucas fault to a degree but if he has to be blamed for casting a dud like Hayden then he also should get credit for casting Ewan. Hayden has sucked in almost everything else he has been in, so I think it's just safe to say he's a poor actor. Natalie should have done better but I honestly don't think she got it or cared to try.

Wrong wrong wrong on great new characters. Maul, Dooku, Windu, Gunray, Jango, and Qui-Gon-all great new characters. Qui-Gon is one of the most important characters in the Saga because he was ahead of the curve. Yoda and Ben had to adopt his thinking Luke to be trained properly.

The only rehash from the OT that I can kinda buy is Chewie. That was pointless, although it was (gasp) fun.

Anakin's character arc was great, but poorly constructed which I will admit to. Lucas tried to model the love story from the romances of 30's movies and it didn't work. Some of the cuts Burtt made to AOTC didn't help. The other characters all had good stories and development. The biggest flaw of the Prequels-and it was a big one-was that his main character didn't work due to subpar scripting on his part and bad casting on his part.

I dislike your implications that you're the only one who has sat down and examined the prequels carefully, or that you understand their hidden quality because you've watched "30's and 40's movies, movie serials or tragedies" (so have I), or that anyone who dislikes the prequels is merely "following the crowd."

Well, I don't mean to offend, but I also understand that my tastes in many things go against the grain and I often try to learn about what I am watching. I find most criticisms of the prequels to be knee-jerk whining and pitiful jealousy, not well thought out critiques by people who care about the material at all.

Is the clone wars tv show any good? I thought about picking it up at walmart bu I didnt like the clone wars movie

The show is much better than the movie and a lot of episodes are really good. Ahsoka gets on my nerves by being too good and showing up other characters sometimes, but I tolerate her.

[8wid]

Don't forget the lack of purpose for many action sequences are, their run times, and adding humor in between intense action.

[DarkSovereignty]

the problem with the prequels wasn't that there wasn't too much cgi (although we could have used some more of the practical effects that made the OT memorable) the problem was that the effects sucked imo, adn one something sucks, and its a prevalently recurring factor in the film, like the cgi was, it detracts enjoyment. case and point the obi wan v.s anakin duel in ROTS.

[Kurosawa]

Don't forget the lack of purpose for many action sequences are, their run times, and adding humor in between intense action.

Like the trash compactor scene really had a point? Or the space slug bit? Not to mention they weren't exactly grim in the OT either and thank God they weren't. Some action scenes exist just for fun and spectacle and there's nothing really wrong with that. Heck, 90% of the Indiana Jones movies are just one big action set piece after another with a thin plot to keep the ball rolling. Avatar has a very simple story too.

the problem with the prequels wasn't that there wasn't too much cgi (although we could have used some more of the practical effects that made the OT memorable) the problem was that the effects sucked imo, adn one something sucks, and its a prevalently recurring factor in the film, like the cgi was, it detracts enjoyment. case and point the obi wan v.s anakin duel in ROTS.

Quite a bit of the Mustafar battle was actually done with practical effects...the rooms they fought in were sets, and the lava rivers were all miniatures. The most CGI based parts of that fight-where they fought up the spire and the bit on the rafts-were Spielberg's ideas. A lot of what people think was CGI wasn't CGI.

[Jordacar]

There's nothing wrong with the prequels that would've been solved with better sfx.

[VenomVsSpidey]

I liked the prequels...even thought ROTS was on par with ESB..

[SuperJediHero]

They ALL say Hayden is Talented, but I don't think he has proven himself (Other than Life As A House).

Natalie Portman has proven many times she is great! Not Hayden.

[SuperJediHero]

They ALL say Hayden is Talented, but I don't think he has proven himself (Other than Life As A House).

Natalie Portman has proven many times she is great! Not Hayden.

[SuperJediHero]

Damn this forum has some serious server issues!

[I'm Old Greg]

I laughed my ass off at those videos, so true.

And i like how he included footage of Lucas face palming at how he failed after viewing the movie in its entirety and his crew commenting on why it didn't work:oldrazz:

[Kurosawa]

I liked the prequels...even thought ROTS was on par with ESB..

That gets you persecuted on the internet.

[VenomVsSpidey]

That gets you persecuted on the internet.

oh well, I'm tired of these movies and lucas catching hell.

[Kurosawa]

oh well, I'm tired of these movies and lucas catching hell.

No movies and no filmmaker catch the same level of insane hatred as Lucas and the prequels. I've actually seen death threats on some forums. And if you actually stand up for them and try to break down their hatred...you catch it yourself. I guess it comes with being king of the mountain-there's always people trying to make an impression by slamming it.

[Christopher Nolan]

is it a crime to say i dont like star wars..

[VenomVsSpidey]

No movies and no filmmaker catch the same level of insane hatred as Lucas and the prequels. I've actually seen death threats on some forums. And if you actually stand up for them and try to break down their hatred...you catch it yourself. I guess it comes with being king of the mountain-there's always people trying to make an impression by slamming it.

I'll stick up for Raimi cause I love Spider-Man3, I'll stick up for Lucas cause I liked the prequels (cept ROTS - LOVED that one). If people don't like it then tough, and even though I hate B&R like no other, even schumaker doesn't deserve all the scrutiny for batman and robin - akiva goldsman wrote the script, and WB o.k.'d it.

[Kurosawa]

I'll stick up for Raimi cause I love Spider-Man3, I'll stick up for Lucas cause I liked the prequels (cept ROTS - LOVED that one). If people don't like it then tough, and even though I hate B&R like no other, even schumaker doesn't deserve all the scrutiny for batman and robin - akiva goldsman wrote the script, and WB o.k.'d it.

No movie series has every line and every frame analyzed like Star Wars does. Even those that hate it can't stop talking about it. Lesser movies receive indifference.

[VenomVsSpidey]

No movie series has every line and every frame analyzed like Star Wars does. Even those that hate it can't stop talking about it. Lesser movies receive indifference.

sometimes, I find it quite sad really..and this is coming from a HUGE star wars fan...

[Octoberist]

is it a crime to say i dont like star wars..

maybe

[Octoberist]

I'm not watching 7 videos of some loser crying over TPM; I've heard every complaint about that movie that I could possibly imagine. I have better things to do with my time. And I don't think the muppets in the beginning of ROTJ are supposed to fill the viewer with dread; it's pretty clearly just a rehash of the cantina freak show.



Irrelevant. The same sorts of complaints people had about 3PO (R2 not so much) were made against JJB. Personally I could give or take him as a character, although I will say a character that is so universally hated by the kinds of people that I myself despise must have something going for it. JJB is NOT a silly sidekick; he a fool character, a staple of tragedies. That's a slight but significant difference.

I do wish Lucas had done a better job with JJB; it's pretty obvious he was trying to create his own Kyoami in him; and Kyoami did get on my nerves at times as well. He did have JJB discount the force to a certain degree, but the character was too childish. But I am glad they still used a fool character; it's too bad Lucas didn't quite pull it off.

I think we're gonna just disagree on this. I agree I like the 'fool' character but to me, there was nothing enduring about Jar Jar. If he was, then he would have played a bigger part in Episode 2 and 3.

I just didn't think Jar Jar worked, though I 'GET' the idea behind him. I think the only saving grace is probably his role in The Clone Wars.

[8wid]

I have a serious challenge for everyone who thinks that they can do better with the prequels: actually write a script and post it.

[SchumacherFan]

I have a serious challenge for everyone who thinks that they can do better with the prequels: actually write a script and post it.

I might do this. Not because I think I'm a better writer, just because I think it would be fun to get everyone's opinions of my story.

[DarKush]

Looking back, I think the main issue I had with the prequels was that GL didn't plot them out as well as he should've.

I don't think the PT characters were as engaging or vital as the OT characters, but there were memorable PT characters. Darth Maul is one of the most visually arresting characters in all of the SW saga. Also, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, Padme, Jango, and Dooku, were good characters, though I don't think enough was done with Windu, Padme, and Dooku. And Maul's underuse in TPM was almost criminal. Also, the PT did a good job fleshing out some OT characters like Palpatine, Yoda, and Obi-Wan. The PT also did a good job fleshing out the Sith and adding to Vader and Sidious's relationship. I also think the PT was more visually stunning. You really got a better sense of the breadth of the universe, and I really liked the diversity and particularly all of the different and cool-lookwise-Jedi and Jedi Masters on the Council. It's funny that GL created a far more diverse Jedi Council in the PT than the current EU take on the Jedi, despite the fact that the writers are limited only by imagination.

I think the PT also had plenty story. In fact there was too much story and GL did a poor job managing it all. I always thought the Clone Wars should've started in the first film. I also thought that Anakin should've been older. I never got over the ick factor with him and Padme, after watching TPM. Plus, the Padme character was gutted in ROTS. How did she go from a rebellious fighter for Naboo to a person who died because of a broken heart, and leaving her children in the care of Jedi who were being hunted down? GL also had a tendency to focus on unnecessary characters, like Jar Jar and General Grevious, at the expense of character or plot development for the rest of the movies.

I didn't mind Hayden's acting. I thought he made an okay Anakin, and he got the darkside look nailed down. Though if this had been the 80s, I think both Kiefer Sutherland and Ricky Schroeder would've made good Anakins. I blame GL's direction for the problems with his character progression.

Perhaps my major criticism with the PT is that I just can't see Vader as a badass anymore. He came off as a dupe. However, I really liked Palpatine from ROTJ and I loved every scene he was in in the PT. He really shined.

[Kurosawa]

I understand why Anakin was the age he was, but I personally would have made Padme about the same age as him. He did transfer some of his affections towards his mother to her, but guys do that with women the same ages (or close) as them all the time.

I do think that one thing Lucas was trying to do in the prequels and that he did do well was deconstruct Vader. Vader isn't a badass. He's a wretch.

[Kurosawa]

I understand why Anakin was the age he was, but I personally would have made Padme about the same age as him. He did transfer some of his affections towards his mother to her, but guys do that with women the same ages (or close) as them all the time.

I do think that one thing Lucas was trying to do in the prequels and that he did do well was deconstruct Vader. Vader isn't a badass. He's a wretch.

[VenomVsSpidey]

I have a serious challenge for everyone who thinks that they can do better with the prequels: actually write a script and post it.

I've said that a MILLION TIMES!! also, cast the actors, hire someone to do the musical score and everything else :woot:

[Jordacar]

Oh man, this is gold:
TBvp1r2UpiQPart 5 here is my favorite. If you only watch one part, make it this one.

[Sloth7d]

You like it better than part 6 and part 7 where Lucas self-owns himself?

[Matt]

I've said that a MILLION TIMES!! also, cast the actors, hire someone to do the musical score and everything else :woot:

Its such an absurd argument though. I'm not a good cook. That doesn't mean I am incapable of saying when I do not like food. Just because someone cannot write a movie, does not make their opinion on one invalid. By your logic, you can never critique a Uwe Boll movie because he's made it, therefore only his opinion matters.

[8wid]

I might do this. Not because I think I'm a better writer, just because I think it would be fun to get everyone's opinions of my story.

I feel very much the same way. I'm so interested in rewriting these I've already though up summaries for it.

I've said that a MILLION TIMES!! also, cast the actors, hire someone to do the musical score and everything else :woot:

You could use the musical score from the OT and make an animated film.

[Matt]

Oh man, this is gold:
TBvp1r2UpiQ

That guy makes valid points but his voice is so bizzare :(

[Sloth7d]

That's his shtick. He feigns the identity of mental retardation/a manic serial killer when doing reviews apparently.

[Sawyer]

IMO one of the biggest things I would change about the prequels is I wouldnt give them an entire ****ing trilogy. I'm sure that, as soon as the thought of an entire trilogy came to George Lucas's mind, thats when ****ty things like Jar Jar Binks came into play. Had Lucas had only 2/2 and a half hours to tell Anakin's story, I think it would've been much more sucessful. It just cuts out the filler.

[Deaths Head II]

That's a really good point, but I think most people thought the idea of a new trilogy sounds cooler then just a quadrilogy. For some reason everyone loves trilogies.

[DarknessOfDeath]

You know...we should team up together or something. I just wrote a scene and another a while back. I also agree that Lucas could have done better with what he had come up with but...hmph.

[SchumacherFan]

You know...we should team up together or something. I just wrote a scene and another a while back. I also agree that Lucas could have done better with what he had come up with but...hmph.

Haha....Would never work because each fan has their own unique idea of what he or she would do different! I wouldn't mind another fan who is familiar with Syd Field or has read books on screen writing helping though.

For example, my idea is to cut X amount of characters from the Prequels you have now, where as people might like the characters I cut...

[SchumacherFan]

I feel very much the same way. I'm so interested in rewriting these I've already though up summaries for it.

http://i46.tinypic.com/25mq1.jpg

Me too... Have some ideas of where I want the characters to go, the different worlds, the basic plot, and of course the visual images in my head.

Here are the basics everyone (who disliked prequels) would agree with

Episode 1 - No Jar Jar, Vader did NOT build 3P0, Darth Maul Survives

Episode 2 - Better Love Story / Scenes

Episode 3 - No Vader killing Younglings and turning to the dark side in 1.4 seconds

[Crook]

Robert Pattinson....yes, I can see the improvements already... :o

[CelticPredator]

I'll stick up for Raimi cause I love Spider-Man3, I'll stick up for Lucas cause I liked the prequels (cept ROTS - LOVED that one). If people don't like it then tough, and even though I hate B&R like no other, even schumaker doesn't deserve all the scrutiny for batman and robin - akiva goldsman wrote the script, and WB o.k.'d it.

Raimi is my favorite director of all time. Yet, SM3 was the biggest pile of overbloated crap I have ever had the misfortune of paying for in the theater. I have never walked out so damn disappointed at a movie in my life.

Has nothing to do with anything other then showing that people arent always biased when they hate on something.

Also...only idiots use the "Why dont you make it yourself" argument. Thats a fact straight outta compton.

[DarKush]

I understand why Anakin was the age he was, but I personally would have made Padme about the same age as him. He did transfer some of his affections towards his mother to her, but guys do that with women the same ages (or close) as them all the time.

I do think that one thing Lucas was trying to do in the prequels and that he did do well was deconstruct Vader. Vader isn't a badass. He's a wretch.

I get that GL was trying to deconstruct Vader and make him this tragic figure, I just don't think GL had the skills to really do it without screwing up what made Vader such a menacing presence. GL is great with big ideas and the visual, but somewhere along the way, I think he forgot about the importance of character. So the PT is more plot-driven than character driven IMO, and that leads to less engaging characters.

I think GL was trying to show Anakin as an innocent kid and show us how he becomes a monster, but I don't think he did it all that well. I wanted an older Anakin, for one, it would synch up better with his appearance/apparent age in ROTJ if he was in his 50s, as opposed to his 40s. Two, I wanted Anakin to be a mirror of Luke. Where they are presented with a lot of the same choices, temptations, but Anakin goes left and Luke goes right. Three, GL could've developed the Anakin-Padme relationship more organically than trying to ram it through in AOTC. By ROTS, there was so much going on, that he didn't have much time to nurture it. And he had largely wasted TPM by making Anakin so much younger than Padme in TPM.

Another thing I would've done was make Padme a Jedi. I think the forbidden love thing would've been better if they were both in the Jedi Order and they both had a lot to lose. And they could've had Anakin mortally wound her in combat in ROTS, instead of that limp force choking stuff. I think GL kept trying to make Anakin too much of a hero in the PT. The true tragic hero in the PT should've been Obi Wan.

I also didn't like the idea of Anakin being the Chosen One. Though I did like the idea of the Jedi thinking he was and being wrong. Luke should've been the Chosen One, if they were going to use that tired idea at all.

[DarknessOfDeath]

Haha....Would never work because each fan has their own unique idea of what he or she would do different! I wouldn't mind another fan who is familiar with Syd Field or has read books on screen writing helping though.

For example, my idea is to cut X amount of characters from the Prequels you have now, where as people might like the characters I cut...


Eh right. Nevermind of what I said. lols.

I think in regards to the gungans, for Jar Jar I mean and of all the characters in ep1, he should have had the least amount of screen time. He would have been better suited as a background character or not introduce him at all. I think the gungans would have been better if they had shown up near the end before the big battle but then that means taking out the underwater scenes and so on. I guess, the Jedi could have found one of those bungas or whatever they are called abandon upon the surface nearby.

I think introducing Jango Fett and other Mandalorians would be interesting to see. I really hate the idea of the Trade Federation using a droid army to do their job and the thing is, they're just too easy for the Jedi to cut down. Personally, I would keep the destroyer droids. They were cool. I think if the Mandalorians were part of the invasion of Naboo, ep1 would have been slightly dark but not as dark compared to episode 2 and 3. Near the end, we might have seen the beginning of the clone wars that leads well between ep1 and 2 and continues through ep2 and ends in ep3.

Introduce Dooku. We see him as a member on the Jedi council. Then after Qui Gon's death reaches his ears and having much disgust with how the Jedi have been handling such matters, Dooku decides to leave the Order. We won't know where he goes until ep2.

Introduce Amidala as a Senator instead of Queen. Though, prior to the events of ep1, she was the Queen of Naboo (you could make that as her backstory) and after her return flight from Coruscant to Naboo, she doesn't know she is being hunted by the TF/Mandalorians. So on her return flight home, her ship gets under attacked and is boarded but before she escapes in an escape pod, she sends out a distress signal to Coruscant. Once the Republic get the signal, this is the cue when they send two Jedi to Naboo.


As for Darth Maul, he'd have a lot of screen time. During the invasion of Naboo, he'll be in charge of what goes on. I think keeping Sidious deep in the shadows would have been better just so that his character remains mysterious.

Those are just some of my ideas so far. I have loads. ;)

[Bim]

Robert Pattinson....yes, I can see the improvements already... :o
My thoughts exactly :hehe:

Celticpredator: ur opinions arent fact, and also u dont have to be so rude calling people "idiots" because they dont think like u do. There are ways to disagree without insulting anyone.

[Jordacar]

You like it better than part 6 and part 7 where Lucas self-owns himself?Those are great too, but I think p5 sums up some of the movie's biggest messes of story and character.

Everyone talks about Jar Jar, giving him less screen time, etc. I think basically Jar Jar distracted people from the story's many real problems.
That guy makes valid points but his voice is so bizzare :(Helps to hold my interest in a weird way.

[Matt]

I notice people often say they wanted Darth Maul to live. I personally did not. The latter two movies were crowded enough without Maul. I suppose you could remove Jango Fett who was ultimately useless and gave Boba Fett some lame backstory and replace him with Maul, but even then, why bother? You had enough going on. Plus, from a story telling perspective, the time of Maul's death was appropriate.

What you needed to do was give Maul more to do in Episode 1. Maul was a crappy character. I don't get all the love for him because really all he did was stand around and cross his arms menacingly. I guess its because he looks cool, but hell, Palpatine is essentially an old man and he is one of the best villains of the franchise. Same with Tarkin. What a villain does is what makes them bad ass, not how they look. In the first 45 minutes of A New Hope, Vader and Tarkin attack the ship, kidnap and torture Leia, kill Captain Antilles, order the deaths of Luke's family, and blow up a planet. These are some evil guys you're dealing with. What does Maul do? Cross his arms and send out some droids. The character needed to actually be evil. The most evil thing he does is kill Qui-Gonn and in all fairness, it was a fair fight so who cares? Instead of Maul sending probe droids to do all his dirty work, have him do some evil things. Leading up to the fight between Maul and Qui Gonn in the desert, show him torturing Shimi Skywalker to find out where Qui Gonn was going. Amidala kept saying that her people were suffering, show it! Show Maul overseeing the concentration camps of the Naboo. Actually develop Maul, it would've made his death at the end of episode one (which again, was the proper time for him to die), actually feel relevant and satisifying. We shouldn't be left wanting more from a villain, we should despise and fear them. Maul has fans. People wanting him in episodes 2 and 3 isn't a good thing. It shows what a poor villain he is.

[CelticPredator]

My thoughts exactly :hehe:

Celticpredator: ur opinions arent fact, and also u dont have to be so rude calling people "idiots" because they dont think like u do. There are ways to disagree without insulting anyone.


If you're using lame agruments such as "If you cant do it, you cant critque it".

Ra-tarded.

[CelticPredator]

The reason people wanted Maul to live was because he looked so damn cool, and nasty. We expected the nastiest villian ever to grace the Star Wars universe.

What we got, was what you described. Angry faced folding arms guy.

Which brings me to General Grievious. Oh dear lord. Lucas, you suck.

[Deaths Head II]

I thought both Darth Maul and Grievous looked really cool but they sucked really bad in the actual movies. It's like they spent all their time on giving them a cool design but forgot to actually make them cool. They're like the Boba Fett of the prequels.

[Sloth7d]

Well, at least Dooku was half way decent until getting his ass handed to him in the first 15 minutes of RotS.

[Kurosawa]

Bumping off characters like Boba Fett and Darth Maul is Lucas' way of giving a much deserved middle finger to those kinds of fans.

[Eros]

My major Problems with the Prequels is the bad directring by Lucas, bad bad script, wasteing good characters, and not living up to full pontential of what came before it. I mean attack of the clones was boring and literally put me to sleep, and sith was okay, but the script was subpar.

The expanded universe stories,comics,novels, and books is my prequel trilogy.

[Sloth7d]

What was that one animated clone wars cartoon that aired on cartoon network for a short period; not the cg one of course? THAT should have been the Attack of the Clones movie.

[danoyse]

The reason people wanted Maul to live was because he looked so damn cool, and nasty. We expected the nastiest villian ever to grace the Star Wars universe.

Which is exactly why people booed when he was killed at the end of the midnight screening of TPM I saw.

They plugged that guy for months, he had a two-sided lightsaber for god's sake. In the end, he was barely in it and died at the end of the movie.

I liked the basic story of the prequels - how the Jedi believed compassion was a weakness when at the end it was Anakin's compassion for his son that saved the galaxy - but I thought the execution was crushingly disappointing.

[DarKush]

I agree with Matt to some extent. I think it was the wasted potential of Maul because he did look so badass and had such great lightsaber and fighting skills that sticks in my craw.

I wish GL had done more with him in TPM and let him be the main bad guy. There were too many bad guys in TPM: Trade Federation, Maul, and Sidious. Sidious was way too out front, early on. But as much as I love Maul, I don't think he was necessary for the remainder of the series. Tyrannus was a better choice to put together a political movement to counter the Republic. And of course Vader was a more powerful apprentice than Maul, at least that's what was written. So I would've been happy to give Maul more screen time in TPM and then his offing wouldn't have been so unfortunate.

[Matt]

Which is exactly why people booed when he was killed at the end of the midnight screening of TPM I saw.

They plugged that guy for months, he had a two-sided lightsaber for god's sake. In the end, he was barely in it and died at the end of the movie.

I liked the basic story of the prequels - how the Jedi believed compassion was a weakness when at the end it was Anakin's compassion for his son that saved the galaxy - but I thought the execution was crushingly disappointing.

Which IMO is more proof that Maul was a total failure as a villain. No one hated him. They thought he was cool. A great villain should be despised.

[VenomVsSpidey]

If you're using lame agruments such as "If you cant do it, you cant critque it".

Ra-tarded.

now that isn't what I said. I said let's see what YOU would have done for the prequels. :whatever:

[danoyse]

Which IMO is more proof that Maul was a total failure as a villain. No one hated him. They thought he was cool. A great villain should be despised.

Yeah, they thought he was a cool villian. Everyone loves a cool villian. Darth Vader was that popular too, back when the originals were new.

[Kurosawa]

I agree with Matt to some extent. I think it was the wasted potential of Maul because he did look so badass and had such great lightsaber and fighting skills that sticks in my craw.

I wish GL had done more with him in TPM and let him be the main bad guy. There were too many bad guys in TPM: Trade Federation, Maul, and Sidious. Sidious was way too out front, early on. But as much as I love Maul, I don't think he was necessary for the remainder of the series. Tyrannus was a better choice to put together a political movement to counter the Republic. And of course Vader was a more powerful apprentice than Maul, at least that's what was written. So I would've been happy to give Maul more screen time in TPM and then his offing wouldn't have been so unfortunate.

I am glad he had Maul get owned, and I wish he would have given the modern fan the middle finger with more Jar-Jar. I don't think Lucas has it in him to hate his fans even though they deserve it richly.

[El_Citrus]

Maul should have been established heavily in the Prequels. Like Matt said, show him torturing Shimi/giving her over to the sandpeople. Show him leading the Separatists in battle, mercilessly torturing Gungans to find Anakin and the Jedi. It would be interesting if they had shown he was smart enough to see how strong Anakin was with the force and that he knew Anakin could kill him if he becomes a Jedi, thus putting Anakin's life in danger all throughout the first movie, and even the second as he hones his skills. Then, have Anakin kill Maul in 3 out of pure rage and anger (Just as Luke did to Vader) after learning the truth of what happened to his mother (he only finds her body, he doesn't know Maul was involved until then) and when Maul threatens Padme.

I have a feeling they had Obi-Wan kill Maul just to show how much potential Obi-Wan had/how much greatness he could achieve, but they could have done the same by showing Obi-Wan, a young Jedi in Episode I, managing to injure and/or fight off Maul and then going on to defeat a villain like Grievous to demonstrate his mastery of the Force and battle skills.

Bah, I'm probably rambling at this point, but I think Maul had tons of potential than what we got in Episode I. He was a cool villain, like Vader, but unlike Vader, never got a chance to make us hate him.

[CelticPredator]

now that isn't what I said. I said let's see what YOU would have done for the prequels. :whatever:

No....you didnt ask that.

But who said I was talking about you? I was talking about the silly fella who said I need to write a script, hire actors, get effects, and make a movie.

That takes more time, and money, then writing a script.

You dont have to be a world class cook, to say that dish sucks.

[CelticPredator]

I am glad he had Maul get owned, and I wish he would have given the modern fan the middle finger with more Jar-Jar. I don't think Lucas has it in him to hate his fans even though they deserve it richly.

Yeah, i'm glad he got owned too....I wish he would've offed Vader as well, and had wimpy Tarken as the villian for the rest of the series.





Point of fact, Lucas cannot create a good villian after Vader, and killing Maul, yeah, that was a nice **** you to the fans. You dont do that. You should NEVER do that. With something as archtyple as Star Wars is, they should not destroy a perfectly good villian. Ever.

Lucas is a flabby faliure, who sits wimpering in his basement...(Watchmen is on...a little Rorschach is rubbing off on me. :awesome:)

[bullets]

Maul should have been established heavily in the Prequels. Like Matt said, show him torturing Shimi/giving her over to the sandpeople. Show him leading the Separatists in battle, mercilessly torturing Gungans to find Anakin and the Jedi. It would be interesting if they had shown he was smart enough to see how strong Anakin was with the force and that he knew Anakin could kill him if he becomes a Jedi, thus putting Anakin's life in danger all throughout the first movie, and even the second as he hones his skills. Then, have Anakin kill Maul in 3 out of pure rage and anger (Just as Luke did to Vader) after learning the truth of what happened to his mother (he only finds her body, he doesn't know Maul was involved until then) and when Maul threatens Padme.


Perhaps Maul threatening Gungans and actually being shown leading the battle would of helped . I'm not sure why he would hand Shmi over to sandpeople but if they could find a way to make that it work. Dooku worked better for the rest of the prequels though and he actually had some sort of motive. Maul was menacing but just a henchmen and there wasn't much they did or could do with him .

[Kurosawa]

Yeah, i'm glad he got owned too....I wish he would've offed Vader as well, and had wimpy Tarken as the villian for the rest of the series.





Point of fact, Lucas cannot create a good villian after Vader, and killing Maul, yeah, that was a nice **** you to the fans. You dont do that. You should NEVER do that. With something as archtyple as Star Wars is, they should not destroy a perfectly good villian. Ever.

Lucas is a flabby faliure, who sits wimpering in his basement...(Watchmen is on...a little Rorschach is rubbing off on me. :awesome:)

**** the fans. I hate the fans, most things, the world, and most people. If I had GL's money I would have done whatever I damn well pleased and told the fans to kiss my ass. I'm glad people hate the prequels. It reaffirms my enjoyment of them that most people hate them because I feel most people are filth and I hate them and the world.

[El_Citrus]

Perhaps Maul threatening Gungans and actually being shown leading the battle would of helped . I'm not sure why he would hand Shmi over to sandpeople but if they could find a way to make that it work. Dooku worked better for the rest of the prequels though and he actually had some sort of motive. Maul was menacing but just a henchmen and there wasn't much they did or could do with him .

Granted, Dooku was a much more established and in depth villain, but Maul was never given the chance. If they had given him some actual depth, he would have been superb for the prequels. I would have liked that, or to just have Dooku be the main threat throughout the prequels.

Back to Maul, it would have been truly poetic, in my opinion, if he developed a hatred for Anakin and how powerful he was becoming in the second film, leading to Maul perhaps killing Shimi/giving her to the Sandpeople to provoke Anakin's wrath and defeat him at his full potential, not to mention the parallels to the OT. Villain kills mentor in first movie, Qui-Gon in I and Obi-Wan in IV. Villain rips out the heart of Skywalker in the second, Shimi in II and Vader's reveal in V. Villain is ultimately defeated out of anger in the third movie, the only difference being that Anakin kills Maul and can't resist how powerful he becomes once he uses his built up rage.

I may be completely wrong on what could have made the PT as good, if not better than the OT, but it, in my opinion, has to be better than what Lucas gave us.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Briefly:

Episode 1: The beginnings of Separatist attacks and the creation of the Clone Army. Anakin comes from a very rough and tumble part of Tatooine where his mother had died horribly and he acts as a sort of vigilante killing gangsters, rogues, etc. Somehow he winds up among the Jedi and quickly turns from his more violent lifestyle upon learning that through the Force the loved ones he thought dead are still with him.

Episode 2: In the thick of the Clone Wars. This movie would exhibit the brutality of war. Really gritty stuff necessary for my idea of Anakin's transition in Episode 3.

Episode 3: The tail end of the Clone Wars; a massive force of Geonosians and other aliens lead the attack on Coruscant. Their leader is Maul, acting on Palpatine's orders. Anakin doesn't go to the dark side for love. Instead he somehow comes to believe that the dark side would allow him to see things as they are, not one-sided as the Jedi do. It allows him to validate a more brutal method of fighting that would strike terror into the Separatists and hopefully end the war quicker.


Anakin is the one who fights a three plus Jedi at a time, not Palpatine. The aliens being involved in the Coruscant attack would be my way of explaining why in the OT films we never see Geonosians or other species among the Empire.

[bullets]

I would of much rather seen Anakin fight other Jedi than attack little children , that was out of place. Also if that was going to be the case , why couldn't he kill Jar Jar , it would of been awesome.

[bullets]

I would of much rather seen Anakin fight other Jedi than attack little children , that was out of place. Also if that was going to be the case , why couldn't he kill Jar Jar , it would of been awesome.

[CelticPredator]

**** the fans. I hate the fans, most things, the world, and most people. If I had GL's money I would have done whatever I damn well pleased and told the fans to kiss my ass. I'm glad people hate the prequels. It reaffirms my enjoyment of them that most people hate them because I feel most people are filth and I hate them and the world.
Ok, **** you fan! You're a fan! **** YOU! I hate you! Filthy filthy fan! Kiss my ass you fan! Go to hell and die for being a fan! SHUT UP FAN!!!!




Yey for sarcasim.






So there you go. You essentially told you're self "**** you". Have fun with that. Because you are a fan...are you not?
:awesome:
And you are a person who lives on this earth...are you not?

You are a sad, sad bitter person. Have a good day. :word:

[Kurosawa]

Ok, **** you fan! You're a fan! **** YOU! I hate you! Filthy filthy fan! Kiss my ass you fan! Go to hell and die for being a fan! SHUT UP FAN!!!!




Yey for sarcasim.






So there you go. You essentially told you're self "**** you". Have fun with that. Because you are a fan...are you not?
:awesome:
And you are a person who lives on this earth...are you not?

You are a sad, sad bitter person. Have a good day. :word:

I love it. I'll just say this much: I liked the prequels, I form my own opinions, and I don't give two ****s and a **** if other people like them or not. In fact, I kinda like that I enjoy something most everyone else hates. I wanted to see how Anakin became Vader for 20+ years, I was basically happy with how Lucas did it, and if people want to insult me for liking it, they can kiss my ass and go to hell. I hate most people anyway.

[CelticPredator]

I hate misanthropes. They're such a waste of skin....they really are.

And seriously, they're just goddamn movies. Look, i'll take film seriously, but theres a limit. They're just stupid ass movies...love 'em, hate 'em, who gives a ****.

[Kurosawa]

I hate misanthropes. They're such a waste of skin....they really are.

And seriously, they're just goddamn movies. Look, i'll take film seriously, but theres a limit. They're just stupid ass movies...love 'em, hate 'em, who gives a ****.

I do when people constantly slam something I like and insinuate that anyone who does like it is an idiot. And take a look at the world...there's no reason to think anything of it or of anyone.

[CelticPredator]

Theres plently of good in the world. And if you hate the world because people dont agree with you, then thats just ****ing retarded sir.

Its. A. Movie.

Sometimes people dont agree. Sometimes people feel the need to express a different emotion. Oh well. Boo hoo. Get over it. I've been called an idiot for something I believed in. But did that make me go all emo on the world? **** no.

[Kurosawa]

There is nothing in the world that is good, and at the end you die anyway, making everything you do or experience a moot point. Fantasy like Star Wars used to be one of the few things that brought me anything close to joy, but that is pretty much gone now.

[Deaths Head II]

You should write some poetry and put it on your myspace.

There is nothing good in this world
Life is meaningless
Everything you are becomes nothing
Fanboys who bash Star Wars are so annoying
George Lucas is awesome
**** you fanboys

[CelticPredator]

Well, thats all your fault. Not other people's fault. Which contridicts what you said in the other thread about not letting people think for you. If people can make you hate something you love, then you never loved it in the first place.

So keep living your bitter lonely life, and i'll be happy, and enjoy it while I can.

[Kurosawa]

You should write some poetry and put it on your myspace.

There is nothing good in this world
Life is meaningless
Everything you are becomes nothing
Fanboys who bash Star Wars are so annoying
George Lucas is awesome
**** you fanboys

Or not. But I do like the fact that I enjoy something and respect a guy that everyone else hates.

Well, thats all your fault. Not other people's fault. Which contridicts what you said in the other thread about not letting people think for you. If people can make you hate something you love, then you never loved it in the first place.

So keep living your bitter lonely life, and i'll be happy, and enjoy it while I can.

Actually my point is I can't enjoy anything without having to see people constantly tear it apart.

[CelticPredator]

Not everyone hates him.

But see, you miss the point on why they hate him. It isnt some pent up anger at nothing...he created 3 stupid ass movies (1,2,3), that had little to do with the previous series, and were extreamly pointless.

Now, no one's saying you cant enjoy them, and find them good. But you cant look at me and tell me they're well made films.

I enjoyed Transformers 2. But I KNOW it was a terrible movie. It's not undeserving of the hate it gets, because it IS actually horrible. But its fun. I like it, but I dont know why.

Yeah, I find it funny that a dumb movie about some robots piss people off so much...but, it doesnt bother me that people hate it.

[Kurosawa]

Not everyone hates him.

But see, you miss the point on why they hate him. It isnt some pent up anger at nothing...he created 3 stupid ass movies (1,2,3), that had little to do with the previous series, and were extreamly pointless.

Now, no one's saying you cant enjoy them, and find them good. But you cant look at me and tell me they're well made films.

I enjoyed Transformers 2. But I KNOW it was a terrible movie. It's not undeserving of the hate it gets, because it IS actually horrible. But its fun. I like it, but I dont know why.

Yeah, I find it funny that a dumb movie about some robots piss people off so much...but, it doesnt bother me that people hate it.

Actually, yes I can tell you I think they are well made films, ROTS in particular, but of course you disagree. It had bothered me for years that people hated the prequels so much, but I clearly am developing a new perspective on that issue. But I'll admit that it did bother me for years that they were so hated, because I liked them and I've been a huge SW fan since '77.

My taste in movies is weird anyway...I'll watch a highbrow art film, then follow it up with just complete schlock.

[CelticPredator]

No...they arent well made. They have a piss poor script, piss poor characters, and piss poor acting.

This is just common knowlage. I mean, you can still enjoy it, but the crap is right there.

Actually my point is I can't enjoy anything without having to see people constantly tear it apart.

Well, then you shouldn't let other people think for you.

Jesus Christ. Star Wars has become the weirdest property of all time. Why cant people accept the fact that they dont think it's good? Why cant people get over that notion and enjoy the damn things themselfs? Why cant we discuss why we dont like them....why has it become this sacreligious thing to do?

Why cant they make a freaking Boba Fett movie!

These are important questions that we have yet to have an answer too...but maybe some day, we will....bah ba baaaahh.

[Kurosawa]

No...they arent well made. They have a piss poor script, piss poor characters, and piss poor acting.

This is just common knowlage. I mean, you can still enjoy it, but the crap is right there.



Well, then you shouldn't let other people think for you.

Jesus Christ. Star Wars has become the weirdest property of all time. Why cant people accept the fact that they dont think it's good? Why cant people get over that notion and enjoy the damn things themselfs? Why cant we discuss why we dont like them....why has it become this sacreligious thing to do?

Why cant they make a freaking Boba Fett movie!

These are important questions that we have yet to have an answer too...but maybe some day, we will....bah ba baaaahh.

SW fans like me get pissed over people slamming the prequels because that is ALL people do and if you defend it you get tore apart and insulted. Like how you stated your opinion that they aren't well made like it was an indisputable fact for example. After 10+ years of constant hatred of something I like, it gets old. Maybe I have bad taste...but I like what I like. I do know that no movie series is analyzed and torn apart like SW is.

[CelticPredator]

Well, thats because Star Wars touched a lot of people's lives. The fact that it IS over analyzed is because we do love it. Its not some random flick that will be forgotten in 3 years, its ****ing Star Wars. We were disappointed that the newer flicks dont even match a quailty even close to the older ones.

And you know what you do to stop the hatrid? Get over it. Dont read it. Move on. They're only opinions. If you're that bothered by someone's opinions, then go to the top of the screen, hit log out, unplug your computer, and do something else. Because if you cant handle me saying "The Prequels are the biggest cluster **** of all time" then you have no business being on the internet.

[Kurosawa]

Well, thats because Star Wars touched a lot of people's lives. The fact that it IS over analyzed is because we do love it. Its not some random flick that will be forgotten in 3 years, its ****ing Star Wars. We were disappointed that the newer flicks dont even match a quailty even close to the older ones.

And you know what you do to stop the hatrid? Get over it. Dont read it. Move on. They're only opinions. If you're that bothered by someone's opinions, then go to the top of the screen, hit log out, unplug your computer, and do something else. Because if you cant handle me saying "The Prequels are the biggest cluster **** of all time" then you have no business being on the internet.

Or I can respond by saying people like you are not real SW fans and are actually haters. I can defend what I like, I can point out how all the criticisms of the PT were made about the OT as well, and even though I'm not going to change anyone's mind, I can at least say my piece.

[CelticPredator]

And I could respond that only people who like the Original Trilogy are real fans, if you like the PT, you should die because you fail at life....

However, since you enjoying the PT in no way affects my real life...I couldnt care less.

[CelticPredator]

Oh, but I will say its idiotic for people to call people haters. Actually, its a lame retaliation that only people who've lost the agrument use.

So I guess I win by default!

YEY!

[Kurosawa]

And I could respond that only people who like the Original Trilogy are real fans, if you like the PT, you should die because you fail at life....

However, since you enjoying the PT in no way affects my real life...I couldnt care less.

I was a fan of the OT before you were even born in all likelihood.

[CelticPredator]

Probably. And so ****ing what? That makes you what? It makes you older. Thats all it makes you. Who said I was a big Star Wars fan anyway? I loved it when I was a kid...but since they've long since replaced the movies I loved with ****** re-edited versions...I lost intrest.

[Kurosawa]

Oh, but I will say its idiotic for people to call people haters. Actually, its a lame retaliation that only people who've lost the agrument use.

So I guess I win by default!

YEY!

We are arguing on the internet over movies with lines like "nerf herder" and "poodoo"..I say we both lose.

[Kurosawa]

Probably. And so ****ing what? That makes you what? It makes you older. Thats all it makes you. Who said I was a big Star Wars fan anyway? I loved it when I was a kid...but since they've long since replaced the movies I loved with ****** re-edited versions...I lost intrest.

Pretty odd that the older person is the more open-minded person.

[CelticPredator]

No, you just enjoy a crappy movie.

[Kurosawa]

No, you just enjoy a crappy movie.

IN YOUR OPINION a crappy movie.

[Crook]

I loved it when I was a kid...but since they've long since replaced the movies I loved with ****** re-edited versions...I lost intrest.
Heh. So I take it I'm the only one that doesn't mind updated effects if it doesn't harm the story? :o

[CelticPredator]

If only you'd just swallow your pride and watch that review.

But you'll say something like "I dun wanna watch some pimple faced loooser talk bad about my movies!"

Even though he's not pimply faced, nor is he a loser, and he's very funny, and correct.

The movies are not well made. Period. They do not have a good story, or characters, or acting, or ....I could go on....but heh...

I mean, its hard to win an Acadamy Award for such gems as " I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth. "

Or...

"Just being around her again is... intoxicating."


Good Christ....I've read better lines in a slash fan fiction.

[CelticPredator]

Heh. So I take it I'm the only one that doesn't mind updated effects if it doesn't harm the story? :o
It does though. It's just adding crap in the background for no reason. It's the fact it doesnt effect the story...that it does effect the story. By distracting the main purpose of the situation. The point of Luke going to Mos Eiesly is to get a transport to Alderaan. What do Jawas on dewbacks, and things walking in front of the frame have to do with any of this?

[Crook]

It does though. It's just adding crap in the background for no reason. It's the fact it doesnt effect the story...that it does effect the story. By distracting the main purpose of the situation. The point of Luke going to Mos Eiesly is to get a transport to Alderaan. What do Jawas on dewbacks, and things walking in front of the frame have to do with any of this?
Atmosphere, I guess? I haven't studied the original films frame by frame, so when I watch the reworks, I hardly notice anything. As long as they don't overtake the narrative and they stay as translucent as possible I can't take it as anything but an improvement.

Stuff like improving color, backdrops, touching up effects...I don't mind them. In fact, when I look at comparison shots, I appreciate them. Plain and simple many of the old effects just suck, lol.

But I understand some of the outrage. Maintaining the original quality, and all that.

[Kurosawa]

Heh. So I take it I'm the only one that doesn't mind updated effects if it doesn't harm the story? :o

I didn't mind the updated effects. My only issue was the infamous Greedo scene.

If only you'd just swallow your pride and watch that review.

But you'll say something like "I dun wanna watch some pimple faced loooser talk bad about my movies!"

Even though he's not pimply faced, nor is he a loser, and he's very funny, and correct.

The movies are not well made. Period. They do not have a good story, or characters, or acting, or ....I could go on....but heh...

I mean, its hard to win an Acadamy Award for such gems as " I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth. "

Or...

"Just being around her again is... intoxicating."


Good Christ....I've read better lines in a slash fan fiction.

Why should I watch that review? Why should I subject myself to 7 videos of hatred for something I like? I'd watch a 5 minute critical review if it was reasonable...I'm not wasting 70 minutes on someone *****ing about TPM when I've heard 10 years worth of *****ing about it.

Here, I'll give you what I feel is a fair recap of TPM's flaws:

Jake Lloyd didn't do well. Jar-Jar was a good idea but wasn't used correctly. Portman wasn't that good, although she was good in spots. Anakin's dialogue was lacking. The epoee scene before the podrace was stupid. The Yoda puppet looked bad.

What I liked was Ewan and Liam, I liked Maul and felt he served his purpose, which was to show why Obi-Wan was a great Jedi, I liked the overall storyline and most of the action, and I liked a lot of the little touches in the movie. It's actually my least liked of the 6, which is of course common, and I actually DO feel the OT is overall better..I just don't see any legitimate reason for the overwhelming amount of hate the PT gets, even though ROTS is the only Episode in it I'm really crazy about.

Why would anyone watch a 70 minute *****fest about something they liked?

[CelticPredator]

So you can get the other side of the story? I read reviews that I dont agree with, and I find myself agreeing with some of it. Its not all black and white. ''


You know what movie I enjoyed that a lot of people hated? Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Its very much hated. And I can understand why. I get their points. I dont agree, but it makes sense. And you know what? I still like it...and the "hate" doesnt bother me.

[spider-neil]

So you can get the other side of the story? I read reviews that I dont agree with, and I find myself agreeing with some of it. Its not all black and white. ''


You know what movie I enjoyed that a lot of people hated? Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Its very much hated. And I can understand why. I get their points. I dont agree, but it makes sense. And you know what? I still like it...and the "hate" doesnt bother me.

you like KOTCS and you say 'I' have poor taste in movies? 'nuke the fridge' is the new 'jump the shark'

[CelticPredator]

Atmosphere, I guess? I haven't studied the original films frame by frame, so when I watch the reworks, I hardly notice anything. As long as they don't overtake the narrative and they stay as translucent as possible I can't take it as anything but an improvement.

Stuff like improving color, backdrops, touching up effects...I don't mind them. In fact, when I look at comparison shots, I appreciate them. Plain and simple many of the old effects just suck, lol.

But I understand some of the outrage. Maintaining the original quality, and all that.

The old effects are fine though....I love old effects. They show how far we've come. I can apperciate them. Touch ups are fine...but this...is just dumb...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYKp9YaMBpY

[CelticPredator]

you like KOTCS and you say 'I' have poor taste in movies? 'nuke the fridge' is the new 'jump the shark'
No, it isnt. And KOTCS is awesome. HATER RAWR WAR WHAHARRR I HATE FANS ERRR GRRR PEOPLE SUCK! ERRRR

[Kurosawa]

So you can get the other side of the story? I read reviews that I dont agree with, and I find myself agreeing with some of it. Its not all black and white. ''


You know what movie I enjoyed that a lot of people hated? Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Its very much hated. And I can understand why. I get their points. I dont agree, but it makes sense. And you know what? I still like it...and the "hate" doesnt bother me.

I've heard every complaint about TPM that I could possibly think of and some that I couldn't think of. I've been hearing/reading bashes of that movie since BEFORE it came out. There's nothing on that guys review that I haven't heard. I agree with what I feel are the fair criticisms of TPM that I listed.

I liked KOTCS myself, and my favorite Indiana Jones movie is actually Temple of Doom, which for some reason people have always been down on.

[CelticPredator]

Ok good. So you understand why people hate it. So why not just let it go?

I love KOTCS. I still do...even after massive massive hate reviews.

[Kurosawa]

Ok good. So you understand why people hate it. So why not just let it go?

I love KOTCS. I still do...even after massive massive hate reviews.

I probably should let it go...I just feel compelled to defend it, especially since very few people around here do. It's different on TFN, but that IS a SW site.

[spider-neil]

Ok good. So you understand why people hate it. So why not just let it go?

I love KOTCS. I still do...even after massive massive hate reviews.

each to their own you like what you like but I seem to recall you telling me 'I hve poor taste in movies (or something like that) because I said I disliked the watchmen, I find it funny you've just told some else to 'let it go'

irony?

[CelticPredator]

well, if I actually gave a crap about your tastes, and said it like I was serious about it....then OK.....

[spider-neil]

well, if I actually gave a crap about your tastes, and said it like I was serious about it....then OK.....

fair enough, I missed the sarcastic nature of your post.

[Crook]

The old effects are fine though....I love old effects. They show how far we've come. I can apperciate them. Touch ups are fine...but this...is just dumb...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYKp9YaMBpY
Haha...I haven't seen this before, but it certainly puts a new light on things. I hadn't seen the revised editions in a while, but damn did my eyes get trained against cgi over the years; because a lot of those look terrible! They shouldn't have inserted cgi creatures if they were gonna be that out of place in the shot.

The scenes in Cloud City were ridiculously unnecessary (what was the point of turning an interior shot to an exterior??). Lucas or someone there has an OCD problem in even bothering with those retouches.

But I will maintain that not every effects shot in the OT is perfect, and some retouches are welcome in my book. For example, the lightsabers and gun lasers. I can't fathom why anyone would think the old versions were better. And a big one is changing the actor for Palpatine to match the PT. Big improvement there.

Basically my gripes with the retouches are those that stand out or needlessly inserted just to show off some tech. Thanks for the vid though, I will definitely consider looking at the original cuts (if they're out there) just to make a comparison.

[DarknessOfDeath]

I am one of the people who liked the prequels but to be honest, looking back at it now you can really really acknowledge the fact that everything that was in the prequels, they could have been improved. I don't think Lucas will change a thing in them.

Its too bad though. I mean Lucas had these really great ideas, minus the useless ones and what he could have done was utilize them to their full potential for his story telling. Well...what is done is done. Nothing can be done now.

I don't mind the OT special editions. I do wish I had the original versions on dvd. Though, I like the additions to seeing extended scenes of Mos Eisley.

I also like KOTCS.

[SchumacherFan]

I am one of the people who liked the prequels but to be honest, looking back at it now you can really really acknowledge the fact that everything that was in the prequels, they could have been improved. I don't think Lucas will change a thing in them.

Its too bad though. I mean Lucas had these really great ideas, minus the useless ones and what he could have done was utilize them to their full potential for his story telling. Well...what is done is done. Nothing can be done now.

I don't mind the OT special editions. I do wish I had the original versions on dvd. Though, I like the additions to seeing extended scenes of Mos Eisley.

I also like KOTCS.

Got to agree, I liked the Prequels for what they are, popcorn movies. its just ashame they will never be the classic films like the OT. Lucas made some big mistakes, that is obvious.

He made a ton of money off the prequels and TPM I think is still on the top ten box office draws.

Attack of the Clones is the only prequel that lost the box office race (Beat out by Spider-Man).

The story / characters are weak, paper thin weak! But big explosions and lightsaber fights are neat.

But I wish George Lucas brought in some other writers for help. When you filter George, he can come up with the best material. But when George has complete freedom, then he puts out garbage in his mind are master pieces....

[Parker Wayne]

Episode I

1) Make Anikin older: If he's gonna fall in love with Padme, at least make him in his early teens. That twit was so young he wouldn't know what to do with a woman if he got one!

2) Get rid of Qui-Gon: In the OT Obi-Wan said that he took it upon himself to train Anikin as a jedi, so that's what they should've written. Not the he trained Anikin as a jedi because he promised his dying master that he would.

3) More Darth Maul: Give Darth Maul more to do. Have him torture information out of Jawas while hunting for Queen Amadala and the jedi or something.

4) Less CGI, More Practical Effects: Make the battle droids armour plated protocol droids with blasters attached to their forams (people in costumes). Or use anamatronics/puppets. Build actual sets rather than just putting people in front of a damn green screen. In short, don't make it look like a giant goddamned video game.

5) No Jar-Jar: 'Nuff said!

Episode II

1) Find a better actor to play Anikin: 'Nuff said!

2) Keep Padme as Queen of Naboo: It's not the prom, you don't vote for who's gonna be queen.

3) Use actual people in clone armour: Not one clone in Episode II or III was actually there. They were all CGI. As a result, all three movies looked like goddamn video games. Only CGI used should be for when the clones aren't wearing their helmets.

4) Make the Geonotians and the clone making aliens more human like: So that they can be done with actors in prosthetic make up rather than being all CGI characters. Also, did anyone notice that one of the jedi in the counsil in Episode I was of the race of cloners, but in Episode II nobody in the Jedi Council had ever heard of that race's home planet?

Episode III

1) Let it take longer for Anikin to turn to the Dark Side.

2) Less CGI, more practical effects.

3) When Anikin leads the assault on the Jedi Temple, we should see him dueling with some of the jedi masters and padawans (that scene was actually shot, but cut from the theatrical release).

4) In the novelization of Episode III, Anikin kills the jedi master in charge of the temple archives. He demands her to step aside so he can send a signal to the other jedi instructing them to return to the temple and she refuses. He cuts her down with his lightsaber without ever letting her draw her weapon. This scene should also have been shot and added to the movie.

5) I actually liked the duels between Anikin and Obi-Wan as well as Yoda and Darth Sidius. I just wish they used more practical effects and built actual sets for the actors/stunt people to fight on.

5)

I agree with all of this, especially making Anakin older. I felt if he was older (which of course would've required a different actor), that I could actually take him seriously.

[I'm Old Greg]

Which is exactly why people booed when he was killed at the end of the midnight screening of TPM I saw.

They plugged that guy for months, he had a two-sided lightsaber for god's sake. In the end, he was barely in it and died at the end of the movie.

I liked the basic story of the prequels - how the Jedi believed compassion was a weakness when at the end it was Anakin's compassion for his son that saved the galaxy - but I thought the execution was crushingly disappointing.



I remember an old bootleg of the movie and people booed when Maul got cut in half:doh:


I am glad he had Maul get owned, and I wish he would have given the modern fan the middle finger with more Jar-Jar. I don't think Lucas has it in him to hate his fans even though they deserve it richly.

what about the ones he sues?

[Kurosawa]

Got to agree, I liked the Prequels for what they are, popcorn movies. its just ashame they will never be the classic films like the OT. Lucas made some big mistakes, that is obvious.

He made a ton of money off the prequels and TPM I think is still on the top ten box office draws.

Attack of the Clones is the only prequel that lost the box office race (Beat out by Spider-Man).

The story / characters are weak, paper thin weak! But big explosions and lightsaber fights are neat.

But I wish George Lucas brought in some other writers for help. When you filter George, he can come up with the best material. But when George has complete freedom, then he puts out garbage in his mind are master pieces....

I wanted it unfiltered, because I wanted his true vision, not some fan fic stuff. He actually did bring in writers for II and III. He knew in the 70's that people would hate those movies regardless, and that is why he made IV-VI first.

I remember an old bootleg of the movie and people booed when Maul got cut in half:doh:




what about the ones he sues?

They probably deserve it, and who cares anyway.

[I'm Old Greg]

They probably deserve it, and who cares anyway.

you need a hug:dry:

[VenomVsSpidey]

And seriously, they're just goddamn movies. Look, i'll take film seriously, but theres a limit. They're just stupid ass movies...love 'em, hate 'em, who gives a ****.

the thing with me is, IDGAF if people like em' or not. there just movies. but when people claim that lucas raped their childhood, or that there are death threats against lucas....thats just too damn far.

[Kurosawa]

you need a hug:dry:

What did he sue over? Piracy? The Phantom Edit? What?

[Kurosawa]

the thing with me is, IDGAF if people like em' or not. there just movies. but when people claim that lucas raped their childhood, or that there are death threats against lucas....thats just too damn far.

Or the people who have made death threats, which I have seen.

Kill the guy over Jar-Jar or Greedo shooting first? Really?

[I'm Old Greg]

What did he sue over? Piracy? The Phantom Edit? What?

That could be one of them.
I remember back when Lucas was back in mainstream he was suing fans left and right. It was on the news.
People were even nervous to make fan films but now there all over the place.

Remember Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back there was a joke. "oh no George Lucas gonna sue someones ass". was notorious for it..

I remember reading about a fan taking a dump in a Phanton Menace box an actual VHS from back in the day and throwing it over his ranch or mailing it to him I forget which.

[SchumacherFan]

Better Anakin = Robert Pattinson ? ? ? ?

http://i46.tinypic.com/j9bkp3.jpg

[danoyse]

I agree with all of this, especially making Anakin older. I felt if he was older (which of course would've required a different actor), that I could actually take him seriously.

I think at the very least they should have switched to an older Anakin during Episode 1. I didn't have a problem with starting him as a child, but I felt we lost a lot of time learning more about the character by showing him as a little kid for the entire first film, and it took away from his relationship to Obi-Wan and Padme.

We needed to know more about Anakin's background too - did he know he had no father? They dropped that one early in TPM and never addressed if he ever knew about it.

[Kurosawa]

That could be one of them.
I remember back when Lucas was back in mainstream he was suing fans left and right. It was on the news.
People were even nervous to make fan films but now there all over the place.

Remember Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back there was a joke. "oh no George Lucas gonna sue someones ass". was notorious for it..

I remember reading about a fan taking a dump in a Phanton Menace box an actual VHS from back in the day and throwing it over his ranch or mailing it to him I forget which.

Well, nothing that I would care about.

Better Anakin = Robert Pattinson ? ? ? ?

http://i46.tinypic.com/j9bkp3.jpg

Absolutely not. Downgrade.

I remember some people suggesting Aaron Stanford because of his Pyro, but I didn't see that as a good idea until I saw him in The Hills Have Eyes remake, where he was actually good and made a nice transformation from a wussy liberal to a badass.

[I'm Old Greg]

I remember that Gary Oldman turned down working for Lucas, he wanted him to perform work illegally overseas cause Lucas doesn't hire union. Cheap.

[Deaths Head II]

The best choice for a recast Anakin is James Franco, IMO.

[Kurosawa]

I remember that Gary Oldman turned down working for Lucas, he wanted him to perform work illegally overseas cause Lucas doesn't hire union. Cheap.

Lucas doesn't hire union because he was kicked out of the director's guild for not putting his name at the beginning of ANH.

[djkris]

The best choice for a recast Anakin is James Franco, IMO.

I knew I wasn't the only one! Totally agree with you, my friend!

[VenomVsSpidey]

Better Anakin = Robert Pattinson ? ? ? ?

http://i46.tinypic.com/j9bkp3.jpg

:doh::dry::csad:

[I'm Old Greg]

Lucas doesn't hire union because he was kicked out of the director's guild for not putting his name at the beginning of ANH.

thats another way for actors to make dick off the figures. notice none of the original cast used there voices for those toys? Lucas wouldn't pay and he made most the profit.

[Joker's Lackey]

After seeing the failed(but good) series Kings. I think Christopher Egan as Anakin would be a solid pick. And maybe Emily Blunt for Padme.

[I'm Old Greg]

I remember reading stuff about Natalie Portman crying on set because Lucas made her work 16 plus hours because of No Sag Rep and the legal working age for a minor wasn't restricted..

[Bim]

Lucas doesn't hire union because he was kicked out of the director's guild for not putting his name at the beginning of ANH.
I believe he quit the director the writers guild cause they fined him $250,000 and tried to pull ESB from theaters cause he wouldnt put his name in the opening. Then the guilds went after Kershner, so he payed all the fees, but the terrible experience is what made him quit. If i remember right him quitting the guilds was the reason he didnt hire Spielberg to direct ROTJ.

[Kurosawa]

I believe he quit the director the writers guild cause they fined him $250,000 and tried to pull ESB from theaters cause he wouldnt put his name in the opening. Then the guilds went after Kershner, so he payed all the fees, but the terrible experience is what made him quit. If i remember right him quitting the guilds was the reason he didnt hire Spielberg to direct ROTJ.

Yeah he actually quit. Probably it was a case of quit or be kicked from it.

As for the other claims, I don't know if those are true or not. Nor do I care. Cameron apparently treated kids like crap on set and people still slobber all over Avatar.

[CelticPredator]

Well...Cameron produces quality, and Lucas does not.

[VenomVsSpidey]

pirana 2 begs to differ..

[SchumacherFan]

This thread needs more ideas to re-cast Hayden since everyone hates him...I still vote for James Franco or the Twilight kid...

http://i46.tinypic.com/xqcbb5.jpg

Come on guys, Gabriel Byrne + Gary Oldman = Better Star Wars... Portman / Neeson / McGregor saved TPM, imo...

I model Episode II after Escape from New York & Titanic. I think it would be fun to have Obi Wan save the captured Chancellor in a wasteland planet while on Coruscant Anakin falls in love with Padme Amidala, you got cross scenes with Obi Wan adventure and the Anakin's love story on Coruscant. But in my story, Anakin isn't protecting Queen. He's actually assigned to protect Palpatine who manipulates the situation. He sees Anakin's talents first hand. Jedi are protecting the Senators who are in the running for Chancellor. The main bad guys are Gary Oldman (Leader of the Federation) and of course Darth Maul who survived in the first movie. End of the movie, I envision Obi Wan captured and Anakin leaving Padme in a heartbreaking scene to save his Jedi Brother. He faces Darth Maul one on one. He defeats him and wins the Clone War, thus the Jedi look away while he weds Padme against their orders, but after all, he killed the Sith Lord and is the hero. Obi Wan internal struggle is who to side with, but in the end, his character arc is accepting Anakin's decision for his love affair. This would create a more dramatic storyline when the two have to fight in Episode 3. Anakin is a hero, Obi Wan is his best friend / older brother figure and then it all goes to hell in Episode 3.

[Kurosawa]

Well...Cameron produces quality, and Lucas does not.

Cameron is insanely overrated. He's made 3 movies that I think are really superior: the first two Terminators and Avatar. Abyss is good, not great, True Lies is good but nothing revolutionary, and Titanic had two good things about it. Lucas has made at least two great movies, two of the best of all time (ANH and American Graffiti) even if you insist to holding to the superemolucasrapedmychildhood crap. All it takes is one movie that the internet fanboys don't love and they will turn on him just like they did Lucas and the Wachowski brothers.

[CelticPredator]

Well...not one movie...3 movies. See, if TPM sucked, and AOTC ruled, and ROTS was the biggest epic of all time..then there would be no backlash.

I dont even hate TPM. But AOTC is the most godawful peice of filth i've ever seen. It was so ****** when I saw it, (at a young age too...before I even had any real knowlage of film) I had to see it again, because I was so stunned on how much it SUCKED.

I cant think of one good thing in that whole movie. From start to end it was just a cluster ****.

[SchumacherFan]

Well...not one movie...3 movies. See, if TPM sucked, and AOTC ruled, and ROTS was the biggest epic of all time..then there would be no backlash.

I dont even hate TPM. But AOTC is the most godawful peice of filth i've ever seen. It was so ****** when I saw it, (at a young age too...before I even had any real knowlage of film) I had to see it again, because I was so stunned on how much it SUCKED.

I cant think of one good thing in that whole movie. From start to end it was just a cluster ****.

The user Kurosawa said James Cameron movies arent that great yet Star Wars Prequels rule and are flawless. (LOL). He loses all credibility and I'm going to stop reading his posts. He must be very young or just has bad taste in films.

TPM was bad, you can't take it serious as a film. You have to leave your brain or even star wars brain at the door because it doesn't make much sense. Darth Maul was a great as an absolute, the cast was great, but story / characters, the backbone of a film was garbage. AOTC just had such bad scenes and dialogue, it made a lot of people cringe.

[CelticPredator]

It made me cringe, and I was what....11 or so? A movie like that shouldnt make me cringe. But my god did it suck. A lifeless, dull, boring mess of a movie.

[Kurosawa]

The user Kurosawa said James Cameron movies arent that great yet Star Wars Prequels rule and are flawless. (LOL). He loses all credibility and I'm going to stop reading his posts. He must be very young or just has bad taste in films.

TPM was bad, you can't take it serious as a film. You have to leave your brain or even star wars brain at the door because it doesn't make much sense. Darth Maul was a great as an absolute, the cast was great, but story / characters, the backbone of a film was garbage. AOTC just had such bad scenes and dialogue, it made a lot of people cringe.

Actually if you read my posts I have never said they were flawless, and in fact I have pointed out what I feel are flaws in them. Besides, you are the one that keeps pushing the idea of the Twilight guy as Anakin when he would be even WORSE than Hayden.

As for my age and tastes in movies: I am 40 and I have very eccentric taste in films. I'll easily watch Spartacus or Ran and turn around and watch something like Evilspeak or Massacre at Central High. Mostly my interests are in horror/sci-fi films, and I am a big fan of schlock movies, which is where Cameron came from and Coppola too. Or to sum it up: my two favorite directors are Akira Kurosawa and Terence Fisher. So my taste in film is all over the place.

I know I probably cut Lucas and the PT more slack than I should because I love SW so much (ANH is my favorite movie of all time), but I KNOW those movies are not AS bad as people make them out to be and ROTS is actually a pretty solid movie. Of course I wanted greatness and just got good movies instead, but they are what they are and at least I feel I got the authentic story from the series creator. I think TPM was hurt by Jake Lloyd and by JJB; I think AOTC was badly edited by Ben Burtt who had no business cutting a movie, and I think ROTS was about as good as Lucas could have pulled it off, with a few flaws but overall pretty damn good.

[CelticPredator]

ROTS is not soild at all...

Horrible story, crappy, lifeless characters. Hidious acting...and the dumbest reason to become a sith lord.

"WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!"

"Joooin me..."

"mmm...Ok. "

[Kurosawa]

ROTS is not soild at all...

Horrible story, crappy, lifeless characters. Hidious acting...and the dumbest reason to become a sith lord.

"WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!"

"Joooin me..."

"mmm...Ok. "

Your opinion and you are wrong. Critics liked it and it was a huge success. It wasn't perfect, but it was damn good. And the reason he turned? Absolutely understandable, but the point of the movie was that it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you study tragedy, you'd see exactly where it came from. ROTS is basically Othello.

[CelticPredator]

Well, maybe if some dude asked me to kill someone, i'd do it. Like Anakin. Just...do it.

[Deaths Head II]

I liked how Anakin went from being good to killing children in matter of hours. It was a pretty busy day for him.

[CelticPredator]

Sounds like my Friday night.

[danoyse]

I liked how Anakin went from being good to killing children in matter of hours. It was a pretty busy day for him.

That was one of the things that drove me crazy about ROTS - that was how he turned to the dark side? It made no sense.