What villain or villains would you like to see them kick start the reboot with?

[Anwar]

It's much, much too soon for Doc Ock or Green Goblin. Most likely, they're going go with a villain NOT used in the previous films. And it would be a wise decision.

Maybe the first film has the super-mobster villains? Shocker, Rhino, Scorpion? Then movie 2 has Doc Ock, then Norman as centre villain in movie 3.

I do think Norman should be an arc villain of sorts, or a presence in the movies.

[©KAW]

I would love it if Norman Osborn was in all three films, not the Green Goblin (maybe in the 3rd), just Norman Osborn. I want lots of character development, and villains waiting in the background. And no killing off villains this time around.

[The Joker]

I want lots of character development, and villains waiting in the background. And no killing off villains this time around.

That'd be great. Stuff like Octavius working in Oscorp or some established lab like that, Curt Conners in the ESU lab, Eddie Brock at the Daily Bugle etc.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Maybe the first film has the super-mobster villains? Shocker, Rhino, Scorpion? Then movie 2 has Doc Ock, then Norman as centre villain in movie 3.

I do think Norman should be an arc villain of sorts, or a presence in the movies.

I would love it if Norman Osborn was in all three films, not the Green Goblin (maybe in the 3rd), just Norman Osborn. I want lots of character development, and villains waiting in the background. And no killing off villains this time around.
These.

Plus, with the same guy playing Norman in all three movies, it gets him more involved in the character, preparing the best possible performance. Just imagine, about 5 or 6 years of a guy preparing to play the Green Goblin.

[I'm Venom]

I want Eddie Brock in the first three films. Ideally, the third film should have the symbiote story against some villain's threat, and then at the end, Spider-Man frees himself from it. After that, have the fourth film with Venom just coming out of nowhere and terrorizing Spider-Man like no one has ever been able to do before. That's the way to handle the story in a franchise.

[Anwar]

If they do have Venom in these movies but do the high school stuff they can have introduce Eddie Brock as the big bully of Midtown (Flash looks restrained by comparison, and even thinks Brock goes too far), then Peter finds out he's trying for work at the Bugle as well (an internship or something, as a writer) when he goes to sell his photos.

[I'm Venom]

I prefer the Eddie Brock that’s not part of the high school gang.

I’d really love to see Jensen Ackles milling around the Daily Bugle as Brock. It gives Parker some time to grow up, and they could introduce Brock’s rivalry with Parker growing out of the hotshot coming in and laying his seniority to waste.

[ModestMr.Green]

I prefer the Eddie Brock that’s not part of the high school gang.

I’d really love to see Jensen Ackles milling around the Daily Bugle as Brock. It gives Parker some time to grow up, and they could introduce Brock’s rivalry with Parker growing out of the hotshot coming in and laying his seniority to waste.


I couldn't have said it better myself?

Wait until the third or fourth film for Venom, but in the meantime, I'd really like to see Michael C. Hall milling around the Daily Bugle as Eddie Brock. It gives the new Parker some time to grow up before things go completely awry, and they could introduce an element of Brock's rivalry with Peter growing out of the young hotshot coming in and laying his seniority to waste. That's contemporary enough. If not, I could see him pulling off a brilliant Norman Osbourne.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lh1HOvNynGY/Ssqv7u5tdSI/AAAAAAAAAiw/ID76MPNVxs4/s400/Michael-C-Hall_l.jpg

For those who don't know him, he plays the titular role in Showtime's Dexter. An excellent show, and he definitely has the acting chops for either role.

[kedrell]

I'd prefer an Eddie Brock that doesn't work for the Bugle at all, but rather for the Globe. Raimi already gave us Ultimate Eddie Brock.

[©KAW]

I agree. I mean, what the hell are the odd anyway. That your doppelgänger is also working at the same job with you.

[ModestMr.Green]

I dunno. What are the odds that your best friend's dad will become one of your greatest enemies?

[©KAW]

Which is why I say NO Brock/Venom, keep this thing classic. You can't keep using the same insane odds with multiple villains in a row, it looks like poor writing on screen. It also makes Spider-Man's world seem small. Green Goblin/The Lizard should be Peter's only connection with his villains (and The Goblin shouldn't be seen until the 3rd film). Leave Brock and Venom out, there's just not enough substance with these characters to hold a story together.

You don't want to end up with another trilogy where all the villains are connected to Peter.

[Avengers-Report]

I think the movie should feature the lizard. Spider-Man 1 and 2 set the bar pretty high with their villians, and everyone always wanted to see the Lizard. Then the movie could focus more on additional characters, such as Connors, Brock and Jameson, so that when the third movie comes around they're would be a reason to creature characters such as Venom.

[©KAW]

I do believe that the first movie should have The Lizard. And if it does, then I only want to see Norman Osborn as a background villain throughout the trilogy. At least TWO movies of the new series should NOT have villains connected to Peter.

[Anwar]

I think they should keep what Ultimate and Spectacular have done and have Eddie NOT be a lot older than Peter. A few years yes, but not more than that.

[©KAW]

Is Sony listening to us, if not, tell them to put Venom in the movie, they'll like that?

[I'm Venom]

Eddie is supposed to be older than Peter. Ackles was born in 1978, and Lerman was born in 1992 i.e. 14 years difference… meaning he’s not a student as in the Ultimate Universe. He’s established as a photographer in the classic, which is an older person… early 30’s.

[spider-neil]

after watching wolfman (which was a 15) I think you can definately do a scary lizard transformation and fit it into a PG13 movie.

[Anwar]

Eddie is supposed to be older than Peter. Ackles was born in 1978, and Lerman was born in 1992 i.e. 14 years difference… meaning he’s not a student as in the Ultimate Universe. He’s established as a photographer in the classic, which is an older person… early 30’s.

This is supposed to be more based on the Ultimate comics, so Brock can be a student himself while Peter is in High school (Peter would be 15, Eddie would be 18).

[CrypticOne]

I'd like to see Electro in the first one.

[Oscorp]

Personally, I think Electro is too powerful to be in the first one. But I definitely want to see him on screen some day in a sequel.

[TheSlag]

Is Sony listening to us, if not, tell them to put Venom in the movie, they'll like that?

OK. Sony, Memo to Powers that Be, from a Fan. Put Venom in "the movie".

There. Done Deal! :cwink:


P.S. Sony.. Put him in RIGHT this time. That includes the symbiote/Brock/Venom with the right tone and at the "right time". The right time IMO is after the 1st Trilogy of the reboot.

I personally love the story of the symbiote and Venom. Not too crazy about classic Brock and so-so about Ultimate Brock, but I think you(they) can add to his storyline to make his motivations for hating Spider-Man/Peter much more believable.

[I'm Venom]

The right time IMO is after the 1st Trilogy of the reboot.

100% agree with you, as long as Brock is in the first three films and the third film has the symbiote story. After that, have the fourth film with Venom.

[Chipper9620]

I liked the idea of Hammerhead being a BA assistant type person in SSM. Dont know if it would work in a movie though.

[kedrell]

Eddie is supposed to be older than Peter. Ackles was born in 1978, and Lerman was born in 1992 i.e. 14 years difference… meaning he’s not a student as in the Ultimate Universe. He’s established as a photographer in the classic, which is an older person… early 30’s.

Uh, I think I also prefer Brock to be a reporter rather than a photographer. Gimme my 616 all the way.:woot:

Ultimate universe has some good points(Spidey vs. Kingpin arc, etc.) but Venom just sucks there and in the SSM cartoon. I think I'll barf if I hear Venom calling Spidey 'bro'.:doh::whatever:

[Deaths Head II]

SSM Venom was the only Venom I felt was sympathetic. Deep down he just didn't want to be alone and he let his hatred for Peter grow because his hatred was the only reason the symbiote wanted to stay with him. That characterization more then makes up him saying "bro" a lot. At least for me.

[Doc Ock]

The Lizard and Mysterio would bring the house down IMO! Curt Connors can be a science teacher at Peter's high school who late one night experiments and eventually turns into The Lizard, and the Mysterio wouldn't need an origin...maybe flashbacks here and there when talking to someone. It would be cool, to me....

[scatterax]

SSM Venom was the only Venom I felt was sympathetic. Deep down he just didn't want to be alone and he let his hatred for Peter grow because his hatred was the only reason the symbiote wanted to stay with him. That characterization more then makes up him saying "bro" a lot. At least for me.

I kind of still like the 90s cartoon version better though. partly because he of the way they drew him.:word:

[FVD]

I'm liking the idea of having Osborn and Octavius working in the background allowing one of the other Villains to shine. Yes Marko and O'Hearn becoming Sandman and Rhino respectively would be cool. Even having Spidey foiling their robberies leading up to this would be awesome much like on SSM. Electro I too could live with. And once more build on Peter and Curt's relationship too. Keep this a Gwen affair and leave MJ 'til later. Also introduce Captain Stacy from the beginning too. And if the story is really following the Ultimates please for the love of God, NO Carnage absorbing Gwen death. :nono:

[kedrell]

SSM Venom was the only Venom I felt was sympathetic. Deep down he just didn't want to be alone and he let his hatred for Peter grow because his hatred was the only reason the symbiote wanted to stay with him. That characterization more then makes up him saying "bro" a lot. At least for me.

I'm pretty sick of sympatheic villains in the Spidey movieverse. And Venom is probably the last character who should be sympathetic. Lizard is the only sympathetic villain I'd like to see on screen for quite some time.

[kedrell]

I kind of still like the 90s cartoon version better though. partly because he of the way they drew him.:word:


I like how they got around the whole Secret Wars origin to the symbiote in the 90's series. I was hoping with Jameson's son showing up in SM2 that Raimi was taking a page from the cartoon. But we all know how that turned out.

[©KAW]

I don't think Venom should be in this new rebooted series, period. Most people don't seem to understand what Venom should be as a character on film.

I noticed that most Venom fans don't seem to like CARNAGE, or have little use for him, why is that, or is this not the general consensus?

I ask because I happen to like CARNAGE better than VENOM, as a symbiote character.

[kedrell]

Lots of people say that Venom is a shallow character. I happen to disagree, but whatever. Carnage on the other hand really IS a shallow character, especially when compared to Venom, IMO. He's just a psycho convict who got powers. Venom on the other hand, didn't start out that way. He really believes he's the good guy and that Spidey is a villain who destroyed his life*.


*My sole Venom experience comes from the 1980's and early 90's(you know, the character as he was originally created). If they've changed some or all of this stuff in the subsequent years, I'm unfamiliar with it.

[kedrell]

And I agree about Venom not being in this set of films at all. At least I'll say that I'd rather have him not done at all rather than having him done poorly like Raimi did.

[Deaths Head II]

I'm pretty sick of sympatheic villains in the Spidey movieverse. And Venom is probably the last character who should be sympathetic. Lizard is the only sympathetic villain I'd like to see on screen for quite some time.

Huh? Are we talking about the same character? Most comics from the 90s I've read tried to make Venom out to be sympathetic, like the comic where Spider-Man and Venom teamed up to stop Carnage and then Spider-Man backstabbed Venom and had him captured. And Venom then saying "this is proof you're evil" and Spider-Man was like "oh no, you're right I am evil." Then there's Venom's entire stint as a good guy. Those comics showed guys like Punisher kicking Venom's butt and the whole time the comic begs you to feel bad for poor Venom because he's just trying to do the right thing.

They show his mentality is warped sure and I don't buy his stupid line of logic, but to say he's the last villain that should be sympathetic makes me wonder if you even know the guy.

[Rincewind]

Well, in a sense, kedrell is right, because to me the route they took with Venom in the 616 comics since the 90s is largely what made him a... not so good character. Venom would work better as a purely bad guy. That's why I love the SSM take on his character - the symbiote alien feeds on the negative emotions of his host and the only reason why it sticks with Brock is because of his hatred towards Peter. Without that hatred, Venom can't exist - the alien would just ditch Brock and find a better host. So if he wants to stay with the symbiote, he has to remain a bad person, forever. That's a pretty cool spin on the character.

[Deaths Head II]

I mostly know 616 Venom as a not-so-good character so I only know him as the wannabe sympathetic guy.

I agree about the SSM symbiote feeding off negative emotions. That added aspect works so much better then the 616 version.

[Rincewind]

Yeah, well, if you want, you might check The Spectacular Spider-Man TV show. If you get over the kiddy cartoon style of the animation, you would see - in my opinion - the best representation and adaptation of Spidey's mythos to date. The show's Venom, in particular, as I described it above, I find to be the best incarnation of the character; I think it's certainly better than the wannabe sympathetic guy you know.

[Deaths Head II]

Yeah, well, if you want, you might check The Spectacular Spider-Man TV show. If you get over the kiddy cartoon style of the animation, you would see - in my opinion - the best representation and adaptation of Spidey's mythos to date. The show's Venom, in particular, as I described it above, I find to be the best incarnation of the character; I think it's certainly better than the wannabe sympathetic guy you know.

Yeah, I already caught up on the two seasons since everyone here kept talking about how amazing it was. I agree that it's an fantastic show and I think it does to Spider-Man what Batman TAS and Superman TAS did to Batman and Superman.

[©KAW]

Lots of people say that Venom is a shallow character. I happen to disagree, but whatever. Carnage on the other hand really IS a shallow character, especially when compared to Venom, IMO. He's just a psycho convict who got powers. Venom on the other hand, didn't start out that way. He really believes he's the good guy and that Spidey is a villain who destroyed his life*.


*My sole Venom experience comes from the 1980's and early 90's(you know, the character as he was originally created). If they've changed some or all of this stuff in the subsequent years, I'm unfamiliar with it.
I will say that both symbiote characters (Venom/Carnage) are very poorly written in the comics. This adds to people calling them shallow. But for me, when you're a serial killer, it's best not to give a bunch of detail about their background, unless he's the star character of his own comic book.

I don't mind Carnage being a shallow character only because he's a serial killer. The less I know about him the better. I do like the fact that Cletus Kasady is feared by the public at large even without the symbiote, for simply being what he is--or what he does. Of course, I don't think he should ever be shown a lot in comics, even if someone happens to write a good story for him. You have to have a great crime drama/homicide detective type writer to handle Carnage.

Venom will always be the standout shallow character, because he's the guy who works with Peter Parker, and they gave him a delusional and misguided story for hating Peter/Spider-Man. When we all know Brock's hard knock life was pretty much caused by himself. Carnage doesn't have this baggage. It's the reason I like him better. Simply because serial killers scare people :super:hitless, the less you know, the more horrified you are about them. Now imagine being able to kill and not worry about anyone seeing you or being able to stop you, well, except for Spidey.

[Rincewind]

@ Deaths Head II

Yup, it's that good. I know that they are making the new movie more based on the Ultimate comics universe, but damn, they would do good to take lessons from SSM's ability to do excellent characterizations and contemporaty adaptations of the whole mythos.

[some guy]

If that Venom movie is still happening, I think we can rule him out of the Spidey films for awhile.

[Doctor Jones]

I'd rather they be inspired by SSM than the UItimate storylines. BUt just take inspiration, the filmmaker should do their own stories.

Possibly with them usign the high school angle, this will get season 3 of SSM made. I am dying to know anything on it. We should have had it by now.

[kedrell]

Huh? Are we talking about the same character? Most comics from the 90s I've read tried to make Venom out to be sympathetic, like the comic where Spider-Man and Venom teamed up to stop Carnage and then Spider-Man backstabbed Venom and had him captured. And Venom then saying "this is proof you're evil" and Spider-Man was like "oh no, you're right I am evil." Then there's Venom's entire stint as a good guy. Those comics showed guys like Punisher kicking Venom's butt and the whole time the comic begs you to feel bad for poor Venom because he's just trying to do the right thing.

They show his mentality is warped sure and I don't buy his stupid line of logic, but to say he's the last villain that should be sympathetic makes me wonder if you even know the guy.

Well I've said that my knowledge of Venom comes from his earliest appearances and that I didn't continue with comics into whatever they eventually did with him. Sounds like they royally screwed up a great villain, because that's how he started out.

I think he's best when shown to be a totally warped psycho who thinks he's the good guy and Spidey is the bad guy who ruined his life and Venom wants revenge. He'll often sacrifice 'innocents' in order to achieve his goal also, but he justifies this in his head with his warped thinking. Now, him being crazy IMO doesn't make him sympathetic, any more than the Joker being crazy makes him sympathetic.

[kedrell]

Well, in a sense, kedrell is right, because to me the route they took with Venom in the 616 comics since the 90s is largely what made him a... not so good character. Venom would work better as a purely bad guy. That's why I love the SSM take on his character - the symbiote alien feeds on the negative emotions of his host and the only reason why it sticks with Brock is because of his hatred towards Peter. Without that hatred, Venom can't exist - the alien would just ditch Brock and find a better host. So if he wants to stay with the symbiote, he has to remain a bad person, forever. That's a pretty cool spin on the character.


See, to me that seems incomplete. The symbiote to me doesn't stick with Brock simply because he radiates negative emotions for the goo to feed on. Both it and Brock have a common desire for revenge upon Peter and that's why they stick together. I never got into the whole "negative vibe" aspect to the symbiote. They wrote that in later. I believe originally the symbiote had a sort of inhibition-shedding effect on it's host(Peter) similar to a drug but without any sort of hallucinations. Since everyone(including Peter) has evil within them, this allowed it to come out without the normal psychological barriers people have to keep them from doing what they'd often really like to be doing.

[©KAW]

I'd rather they be inspired by SSM than the UItimate storylines. BUt just take inspiration, the filmmaker should do their own stories.

Possibly with them usign the high school angle, this will get season 3 of SSM made. I am dying to know anything on it. We should have had it by now.Marvel/Sony considers The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon a failure, because it simply couldn't bring in the ratings it needed to sustain itself. They will not be copying anything from that show.

[kedrell]

I didn't like SSM all that much either. Spidey TAS is probably the best cartoon still of Spider-Man, except for the whole not letting him throw a punch crap. That's one aspect where SSM beats it. Also I didn't like the animation style in either series. I'd have liked the style more like the Batman or Superman TAS's. Crisp and clear.

[Deaths Head II]

I'd rather they be inspired by SSM than the UItimate storylines. BUt just take inspiration, the filmmaker should do their own stories.

I think US is one of the last things I would want them to use for inspiration. Bendis made some good dialogue but wow did he completely mutilate so much of Spidey's rogues gallery. Magneto Doc Ock, Hulk Green Goblin, Lion Kraven, Clone Scorpion...just wow.

[Parker Wayne]

Marvel/Sony considers The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon a failure, because it simply couldn't bring in the ratings it needed to sustain itself. They will not be copying anything from that show.

Really? I heard it was one of the highest rated shows on Disney XD. Ratings is the least of the show's problems.

[spider-neil]

Marvel/Sony considers The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon a failure, because it simply couldn't bring in the ratings it needed to sustain itself. They will not be copying anything from that show.

SSM always got good ratings and had higher rating than wolverine/x-men which has a new season. the sony gave up the rights for SSM so they could hold onto the rights for the movies.

[Parker Wayne]

SSM always got good ratings and had higher rating than wolverine/x-men which has a new season. the sony gave up the rights for SSM so they could hold onto the rights for the movies.

That was thought and the problem with SSM is a problem similar to the 60s Batman show in which Sony still has the rights to many aspects of SSM, which includes music among other things.

[I'm Venom]

Uh, I think I also prefer Brock to be a reporter rather than a photographer. Gimme my 616 all the way.:woot:

:up:

[Rincewind]

See, to me that seems incomplete. The symbiote to me doesn't stick with Brock simply because he radiates negative emotions for the goo to feed on. Both it and Brock have a common desire for revenge upon Peter and that's why they stick together. I never got into the whole "negative vibe" aspect to the symbiote. They wrote that in later. I believe originally the symbiote had a sort of inhibition-shedding effect on it's host(Peter) similar to a drug but without any sort of hallucinations. Since everyone(including Peter) has evil within them, this allowed it to come out without the normal psychological barriers people have to keep them from doing what they'd often really like to be doing.
Well, I was specifically talking about the SSM incarnation of Venom. The thing about the negative emotions plays a really huge part in its version of the symbiote. That's essentialy why Peter was able to break its bond with the alien - he realized that he's not alone and that even with all the crap that's happening to him, there are people who love and care about him. And Eddie was the complete opposite, a man who always felt alone and abandoned. And even though he and the symbiote do share a common hatred for Peter, the alien couldn't care less about Brock himself; IMO, it sticks with him mainly because his full of negative and horrible emotions mind offers it such a great repast. The fact that they share a hatred for Peter in particular sure helps, but Eddie's hatred, by itself, is what the symbiote wants and needs.
Basically, the SSM Venom is not really the anti-hero wannabe badass from the comics of the 90s. He's just a lost and deluded person bent on a path of self-destruction. I think that makes him so much better as a character. But if you don't like it, you don't like it. Everyone has different tastes.

[Deaths Head II]

I think that makes him so much better as a character.

I agree. I felt that is way more complex and interesting then just the symbiote and Eddie both being "We hate Spider-Man so let's hate him together."

[Rincewind]

Yep. And besides methinks the SSM Venom was the first incarnation of the character that actually tried to do something with the knowledge that Peter is Spidey istead of the half-assed "you belong only to us" explanation.

[GoldGoblin]

They could use Mysterio and Lizard where spidey could make it look like the Lizard was just a hallucination of Mysterios to protect Dr.Connors and his family.

[Deaths Head II]

Yep. And besides methinks the SSM Venom was the first incarnation of the character that actually tried to do something with the knowledge that Peter is Spidey istead of the half-assed "you belong only to us" explanation.

Yeah, one of the most disappointing things about Venom from the comics was he never did anything with his knowledge of Peter being Spider-Man besides maybe scare Mary Jane a bit and make Spidey not wear the black suit anymore.

You just know 90% of Spidey's other villains would have a field day if they knew Spidey's secret identity.

[Rincewind]

And they do. The Green Goblin purposefully killed (or caused the death, to be specific) Gwen Stacy for frak sake! But Venom, with all his power and badassery and whatnot, never did anything to hurt Peter with that knowledge. SSM is just all about a superior characterization.

[Rodrigo90]

My God this poll sucks.

[kedrell]

Yeah, one of the most disappointing things about Venom from the comics was he never did anything with his knowledge of Peter being Spider-Man besides maybe scare Mary Jane a bit and make Spidey not wear the black suit anymore.

You just know 90% of Spidey's other villains would have a field day if they knew Spidey's secret identity.

When I think original 616 Venom and how he acts and how he is regarding Peter, I'm reminded of that line of Montalban's from Wrath of Khan:

"I've done far worse than kill you. I've hurt you and I wish to go on hurting you".

That's Venom right there.

[Anwar]

He could "hurt" Peter plenty by revealing his secret and having all his other enemies come after him non-stop.

If they do use Venom in the movies, they should go for a re-conceptualization and have him simply be the result of "Power and NO responsibility". Show us what happens when an amoral scumbag gets Peters' powers and they end up clashing when Peter tries to stop him. Instead of him just wanting to kill Peter, he goes after everyone in his life he felt wronged him, steals or intimidates anyone he wants, uses his powers to cheat his way through life, etc.

[SymbioticToxin]

Spider-Slayers. I think its time to see the Smythes and their creation's on the big screen.

[TheSlag]

I don't want the Goblin to be the villain in the first, but like BB, I would like to see hints that the Goblin may rise at the end of the first movie.

That way, they can skip the Goblin origin, which is not necessay IMO.

[Chris Wallace]

Spider-Slayers. I think its time to see the Smythes and their creation's on the big screen.

If I want to watch Terminator, I'll watch Terminator.

[Chris Wallace]

I don't want the Goblin to be the villain in the first, but like BB, I would like to see hints that the Goblin may rise at the end of the first movie.

That way, they can skip the Goblin origin, which is not necessay IMO.

See, I'd rather they DIDN'T steal plot devices from Nolan.

[Anwar]

The Goblin origin can just be hinted at in the first and second movies (Norman mentions he's working on a performance enhancer, we see him buying some advanced aeronautic equipment, etc) and then when Norman is unmasked we can see a flashback to how he became the Goblin.

Like how Spectacular Spider-Man did it.

[The Joker]

See, I'd rather they DIDN'T steal plot devices from Nolan.

How is that a plot device stolen from Nolan? They set up Harry for being the Goblin at the end of SM-2. They set up Jean Grey to be the Phoenix at the end of X-Men 2.

Nolan doesn't have the patent on setting up characters for the sequel.

[Chris Wallace]

Jean & Harry were being built up throughout their entire movies. Joker wasn't. Not the same. Not even similar, really. And in absence of a GG origin, or a prominent Osorn presence throughout the film, what The Slag is proposing would be stealing from Nolan.

[The Joker]

Jean & Harry were being built up throughout their entire movies. Joker wasn't. Not the same. Not even similar, really. And in absence of a GG origin, or a prominent Osorn presence throughout the film, what The Slag is proposing would be stealing from Nolan.

Wrong. He said he doesn't want a Goblin origin, meaning Osborn making the serum, testing it on himself, going through the transformation, learning he has a Goblin persona, and then embracing it etc.

He's saying he wants hints that Osborn is already the Goblin at the end. Not excluding Norman Osborn himself from being present in the first movie. Unlike Joker, who was not present in BB.

[Chris Wallace]

I'd still rather they didn't go that route.

[scatterax]

Atfirst, I kinda wanted them to do GG again so they could give him a good costume and insert Gwen, but the more I think about it the more sure I am that he's not necessary. I don't want a remake of S-m1, I want them to tell a new story in a new direction. (but y ultimate????)

However, I still wouldn't mind seeing Doc ock if it lead to a sinister 6 movie for a sequel, and since venom didn't really get a chance to shine, if they put him in as the main baddy i wouldn't really count that as reusing 1 of the last movies villains.

But, I still think I'd rather just see completely new villains. like electro, lizard (+kraven?), defiantly mystery, and scorpion are villains that come to mind when I think of villains I want adapted.

but please, don't waste time on lesser villains such as vulture, carnage, hydroman, etc. altho either a shocker or a rhino cameo would be nice. just put 'em in for 1 fight scene as hired help and be done. it wouldn't be a stretch.

[cerealkiller182]

I dont find a difference between Ultimate Siderman and 616 Spiderman AS A FILM TEMPLATE. They're adapting a film, the broadstrokes are the same in both, and then everything else is going to be adapted to the story they want to tell anyway. The only thing that would make me nervous about using US is the Hulk-Goblin.

[Chris Wallace]

Or Magneto-Ock.

[scatterax]

Or Magneto-Ock.

and lets not forget that super-fabric venom and "not as cool looking" electro.

(most of the designs I've seen for ultimate spidey villains haven't impressed me much.)

[Chris Wallace]

I would agree.

[Spideyfan93]

My dream Spiderman reboot(although I loved the Raimi trilogy) would include Shocker at the beginning for an cinematic fight. It would be like the intro to the Indiana Jones films.

The main villain would be a mix of Scorpion and Lizard with more emphasis on Lizard. Scorpion would have a good amount of screen time and live after the movies over. Lizard on the other hand, would die in an emotional fashion...but Dr. Connors would have half of the movie of screen time so we could grow some attachment to the character.

[Chris Wallace]

I wouldn't mind an early scene with Shocker, as sort of a throwaway villain.

[Venom 1988]

I wouldn't mind an early scene with Shocker, as sort of a throwaway villain.

As long as he is nothing like Ultimate Shocker, I'm fine with this

[Chris Wallace]

You don't want Urban-Hood Shocker?
Seriously, I can't think of a single "ultimized" villain I would want, except MAYBE Electro.

[Venom 1988]

No because Ultimate Shocker is a joke, he gets knocked out after one punch. If you want a pushover villain for the opening scene, theres plenty of D-listers to choose from.

[Chris Wallace]

I want Herman to present a challenge, at least.

[©KAW]

They would never use a named Spider-Man villain as a throwaway villain to start the film off. Not even with Shocker, because once he uses those vibro-shock gauntlets, it would need to be explained. They would most likely use regular thugs, where as you don't have to explain anything.

[Deaths Head II]

They could use it in a sequel where Spider-Man is more established and super villains are more common. They could even tie it in with the main plot and have after Shocker gets taken down we hear Norman getting notification that Shocker was defeated even with the equipment they gave him. Or something along those lines.

[Doctor Jones]

What about escalation!!!

[Venom 1988]

They would never use a named Spider-Man villain as a throwaway villain to start the film off. Not even with Shocker, because once he uses those vibro-shock gauntlets, it would need to be explained. They would most likely use regular thugs, where as you don't have to explain anything.

You don't need to explain everything

[ModestMr.Green]

The general audience won't care about what a throwaway villain is doing as long as what they're doing looks cool. Maybe at first they'll say 'Whoa, how's he doing that?', but if Spidey makes the wrist gauntlets malfunction mid-fight, they'll say, 'Oh, that's how.' and move on.

[Chris Wallace]

They would never use a named Spider-Man villain as a throwaway villain to start the film off. Not even with Shocker, because once he uses those vibro-shock gauntlets, it would need to be explained. They would most likely use regular thugs, where as you don't have to explain anything.

I don't think that's truly necessary. We see the gauntlets power up, we see him fire. What's the big mystery?

[Rodrigo90]

What I think would be a good villain, if Peter was somehow responsible for their creation. This would help him overcome his guilt of Uncle Ben's death.

Peter befriends Dr Connors,a father figure.
Peter helps create the Regeneration Serum.
Connors becomes The Lizard and Peter blames himself.
Peter doesnt know wether to get involved with the Manhunt.
Kraven appears and wants to kill The Lizard,prompting Peter to face up to his responsibility and sort the mess out.
By the end,Peter realises that being Spider-Man isnt a curse,its a gift. His responsibility as Spider-Man will overpower his guilt of Uncle Ben's murder.

[©KAW]

I don't think that's truly necessary. We see the gauntlets power up, we see him fire. What's the big mystery?The big mystery is, you don't see normal criminals using vibro-shock gauntlets. Those things can dismantle an entire building to a pile of rubbish in a matter of seconds. Not to mention, put a force field around Shocker that makes it impossible for Spider-Man to lay a glove on him. It may not take much time to explain them, but they would need to be explained.

[some guy]

For throwaway villains, what about the Enforcers? It would probably be the only shot they'll ever get at a movie.

[Oscorp]

To be honest, I see more potential in Shocker than just as a throwaway-villain for introduction. He is pretty underrated and could definitely work as a Scarecrow-esque villain in the first movie. That means, be the villain to face off Spidey the most, but with someone else in the background to be the real main villain, like one of those mob bosses.

[Sentinel X]

No because Ultimate Shocker is a joke, he gets knocked out after one punch. If you want a pushover villain for the opening scene, theres plenty of D-listers to choose from. Your avvy reminds me...Spectacular Spider-man Shocker was pretty awesome. If he could be played by someone like Woody Harrelson, that would be awesome

[HughJackFan420]

they should just start with Green Goblin again but this time a latex mask that makes him look like the Green Goblin from the comics. preferably I would like to see the Green Goblin from MUA 2 but if not GG then Kingpin. and this time don't kill the villains ya jackasses at Sony.

[zeptron]

Kingpin is off limits because Fox owns the rights to the character and no GG should not be in the first movie. It's much too soon for him or Doc Ock to appear. The villain should be someone that hasn't been used. If GG were to appear already it would basically be a remake of the first movie and it would probably confuse people who don't know about the reboot. Norman Osborn can appear to build it up but shouldn't become GG until at least the second movie.

[scatterax]

Kingpin is off limits because Fox owns the rights to the character and no GG should not be in the first movie. It's much too soon for him or Doc Ock to appear. The villain should be someone that hasn't been used. If GG were to appear already it would basically be a remake of the first movie and it would probably confuse people who don't know about the reboot. Norman Osborn can appear to build it up but shouldn't become GG until at least the second movie.

agreed.

[scatterax]

My idea for a sequil would involve the original sinister 6.

some1 like norman asbourne or some other rich villain would hire them to take out spidey so they can opperate un challanged.

dock ock would be the leader, behind the seens. only revealed @ the end for the final fight. his alter ego would reconnect w/ peter in the film. he's back in town on "business". skip the accident. the tentacles arrant permanent. he only uses them to fight @ the end. his motivation is to raise funds quick for his advanced research. he thinks the end justifies the means, but he's just a mad scientist and he's the one that gave electro and sandman mystereo, etc. their powers. (vulture could be like his lab assistant 2.) but obviously, he's supposed to appear to be a normal guy til the end. (he hangs w/ peter a lil as octavius.)

his teem has vulture, who is like their scout. (and 1st to fall.)

kraven's the tracker.

mysterio=obvious

sandmans the muscle and electro is just plain deadly.

no need to go into their backgrounds for this movie. just use the x-men 1 approach. the only villain u would need to establish is dock ocks connection to peter.

[Doctor Jones]

Nah, too many villains. If SM3 couldn't handle three, six is overkill. I think we should have learned that three villains cannot work in a comic book film. Maybe if it was 3 + hours but that's never gonna happen.

[Rincewind]

I honestly think that there is no way to do the Sinister Six justice in a live action movie. You would have to spend at least 2 separate previous movies building the roster of the Six up lest they come out of the blue nowhere. And six villains would be way too much to handle for a single 2 hour movie.

[Anwar]

Spider-Man 3 tried to give us three fully-fleshed out villains and failed (understandable). Now if the Sinister Six villains were mostly just thug bad guys, then it might work.

But 2-D villains aren't that interesting.

[COMPO]

I'd like Scorpion to be the villain, with Jameson thinking he was a threat have him create Scorpion durin the middle of the film to go up against Spidey and hunt him down, or you could have Kraven being hired by Silvermane to hunt down the new annoyance Spider-man whilst he goes up against Kingpin but we never see KP

[zeptron]

Nah, too many villains. If SM3 couldn't handle three, six is overkill. I think we should have learned that three villains cannot work in a comic book film. Maybe if it was 3 + hours but that's never gonna happen.

I usually prefer two villains, but I think three villains could have worked in SM3 if it was GG2, Sandman/Vulture liked Raimi wanted. Vulture's much less complicated than Venom and he would have been tied with Sandman from the start and would have shared scenes with him. Plus he didn't have a character arc or descent to evil since he would have began the film as a pure evil villain. That's two villain story arcs going on instead of three completely unrelated ones. It was that they pushed Raimi to put Venom, so, we couldn't see good potential for a multiple villain movie. Sandman and Venom do not go together at all.

If this had happened we probably wouldn't get the silly "too many villains" complaint.

[Deaths Head II]

The problem isn't too many villains really, its usually too many villain ARCS or villain arcs that are too unconnected.

[Doctor Jones]

I completely forgot about Vulture scrapped in SM3. Yeah, that could have worked. Being cell mates, they were connected (which didn't turn it into that whole Batman "let's team up to get him!" sort of thing) the whole idea of Toomes doing whatever to Marko could have been great.

[Spiderine]

The big mystery is, you don't see normal criminals using vibro-shock gauntlets. Those things can dismantle an entire building to a pile of rubbish in a matter of seconds. Not to mention, put a force field around Shocker that makes it impossible for Spider-Man to lay a glove on him. It may not take much time to explain them, but they would need to be explained.
Dude, I completely agree with you. I don't think a quick scene like that would be done justice. The first thing people would do is complain about wasting Shocker for such a useless crapfest of action just to see a glimpse of Shocker on the big screen. There are far better ways to utilize him in an overall plot. You can accomplish the same thing with petty thugs if you want to establish Spidey's presence.

[Spiderine]

Nah, too many villains. If SM3 couldn't handle three, six is overkill. I think we should have learned that three villains cannot work in a comic book film. Maybe if it was 3 + hours but that's never gonna happen.
Yeah, never cared for villain teamups. Certainly not one in which a collective group of Spidey's most deadly foes joining forces for revenge. It lessens the threat each one poses IMO especially when we are talking about a movie. Spidey should have his hands full with one if not two because they are truly threats to him, the city and innocent people. Those things don't tranlate well to the big screen because they tend to water them down.

[SpeterMan3]

How about using Shocker for an opening scene but coming back later on (in the movie, series, whatever) after scheming and/ or teaming up, etc.? Just a thought.

Haha, 1,234 posts. Makes me happy.

[SpeterMan3]

Double...

1,235 posts
:cmad:

[ClintDracula]

Vulture, Lizard, Doc Ock, Shocker, and Kingpin would all be good starting villains. (not all in the same film of course, I have a 2 villain limit.)

And I wouldn't mind seeing a Frank Castle cameo especially if Kingpin is involved. (assuming Marvel will get the rights back to each)

[ModestMr.Green]

So I received Ultimate Spider-Man: Vol. 2 in the mail today (before Vol. 1, an inconvenience), which prominently features Wilson Fisk. I was never much of a fan of the Kingpin from his numerous Saturday morning appearances in the nineties, but apparently he's quite the badass. Crushing a man's skull with his bare hands? Geez. I'm more or less convinced that some sort of intercorporate custody battle needs to take place for the Kingpin to appear in this film.

[brianbuck]

Well, if the idea is for a more gritty, Dark Knight style approach (which can work for a Spider Man film, if handled right), I'd go with Kingpin with Tombstone as his assassin/bodyguard.

[Spidey_62]

But Fox owns the rights to Kingpin.

[Mrpaul]

Well we've seen Gobby and Ock, so let's see someone new

[Mrpaul]

Then maybe bring them back later

[Phoenix_Flare]

I would like to see the gang plot/scientific plot int he new spidey-films...those were the 2 things the 90's cartoon did that made it epic and Spectacular Spider-man

1st film: crime boss(Tombstone) w/Hammerhead,Shocker & Rhino(not full in rhino garb, think more Bane meets Rhino) Norman Osbourne is the one developing the tech for Tombstone
2nd film: Norman is at the forefront and his business is being threatned by Tombstone & competitor Adrian Toomes who becomes the vulture to combat him Norman has someone become the Hobglobin(who everyone suspects his Norman & Hobglobin has his own agenda), intro. Doc.Ott as Osbourne's assistant & Norman is presumed dead
3rd film: gives us Dr.Octopuss & Electro both who have become freaks of nature and blame Spider-man for their transformation, so they team-up and break Vulture, Shocker,Rhino out of prison and become the Sinister 5
4th film: we have the return of the Hobglobin w/Green Goblin & Norman Osbourne who team up to take down Tombstone and the new crime lord Silvermane w/Black Cat as his female assasin who eventually trades sides & works w/Spider-man

[kedrell]

^They'll be lucky to get to a third film at best.

[I'm Venom]

1st film: Peter begins selling photos to the Daily Bugle; Eddie Brock (Jensen Ackles) makes his first appearance.

2nd film: ?

3rd film: Spider-Man acquires the symbiote; Brock is fired from the Daily Bugle in disgrace. Eventually, the symbiote attempts to permanently bond with Spider-Man and has to be forcibly removed. At Peter’s apartment, Mary Jane returns from shopping. When she enters the apartment, someone in a black costume is sitting in a corner, but it’s not Peter. “Hi honey, I’m home!” Cut to black, credits.

4th film: After the end of the third film, MJ is in shock. Peter tries to help her get her thoughts together. MJ can’t stay at the apartment anymore because it scares her so much, so her and Peter stay in a hotel. Peter swings back to his apartment and is intercepted by a black figure. They fight for a bit until the figure reveals his identity as Eddie Brock (calling himself Venom), when they start fighting again. Spider-Man thinks he’s knocked out Venom with a girder, so he decides to go off and think of a plan, when all of a sudden, he’s swung back into a building by Venom, who escapes. Film goes on showing Brock stalking Peter, terrorizing MJ, visiting Aunt May, etc.

[kedrell]

Not too bad but I'm still more keen on them separating the symbiote movie and the Venom movie by having an unrelated movie in between them.

[Anwar]

I think the Venom story can be done in one movie, as long as they plotted it right. And I mean the ENTIRE Venom story from symbiote to Venom's defeat.

[Spiderine]

I think the Venom story can be done in one movie, as long as they plotted it right. And I mean the ENTIRE Venom story from symbiote to Venom's defeat.
Really? Because I see no logical way to do it without Venom being shortchanged again. The sym arriving, Peter wearing it and going through the emotional changes, Peter disposing it, and leading to Brock becoming Venom. Finally the two battling out. Without it all seeming rushed and fleshed out. But if you have an idea how I would love to hear it. Also who would you recommend as the villain before Venom shows up?

[Spiderine]

4th film: After the end of the third film, MJ is in shock. Peter comes back and tries to help her get her thoughts together. MJ can’t stay at the apartment that night because it scares her so much, so her and Peter stay in a hotel. Peter swings back to his apartment and is intercepted by a black figure. They fight for a bit until the figure reveals his identity as Eddie Brock (calling himself Venom), when they start fighting again. Spider-Man thinks he’s knocked out Venom with a girder, so he decides to go off and think of a plan, when all of a sudden, he’s swung back into a building by Venom, who escapes. Film goes on showing Brock stalking Peter.
That's the whole movie?

[Mistah K88]

Like I've said before, they should start out with lightweight criminals who's powers are not all that impressive...like Vulture or Chameleon. However, I would like to see some of the figures of organized crime without superpowers like Silvermane, Hammerhead, The Big Man, etc. Thus building up to the emergence of supervillains. Then the bigger supervillains take over, like Gobby tries to become the new top crime lord, Ock has his Master Planner stint and all that good stuff...

[zeptron]

Really? Because I see no logical way to do it without Venom being shortchanged again. The sym arriving, Peter wearing it and going through the emotional changes, Peter disposing it, and leading to Brock becoming Venom. Finally the two battling out. Without it all seeming rushed and fleshed out. But if you have an idea how I would love to hear it. Also who would you recommend as the villain before Venom shows up?

Exactly. Just having Brock get the symbiote near the end and the two just have only one fight where Spidey defeats him would be lame. That's a missed opportunity to show Venom as a really frightening villain. Having him stalk Spider-Man, visiting his Aunt, terrorizing Mary Jane, really letting Peter know that he could get any of his loved ones and that he knows all of his little secrets. It would also be great to see Venom trying to expose Spider-Man as Peter Parker.

[Anwar]

That's enough plot for maybe 1 hour at most.

I'd set up Brock as a background character or so one movie earlier, and have the symbiote be from meteor samples that had been brought back from a shuttle mission (we wouldn't see the mission, or the crash, just the space samples). When Spidey tries to stop a guy from robbing the place (it can just be normal thugs) he gets the symbiote.

Who are the villains? They can just be some usual gangster supervillains, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that for whatever reason he gets rid of the suit and it gets on Brock. Then we have 45 minutes or so of Brock vs Peter until Brock gets killed somehow. The 90s show had a great Venom story and they only needed 20 minutes to do it, they also managed to wrap up his story without a need to bring him back.

Brock was never a deep enough character beyond "I hate Spider-Man for whatever reason", so he doesn't need a lot of character-building time.

His whole "I know Peter's secret" stuff was just a replacement for Norman and Harry, since at the time Venom was made Norman was dead and Harry had "retired" from villainy (for a while). Hell, when Norman came back they made Venom forget Peter was Spidey so Norman could have his schtick back!

[Spiderine]

That's enough plot for maybe 1 hour at most.

I'd set up Brock as a background character or so one movie earlier, and have the symbiote be from meteor samples that had been brought back from a shuttle mission (we wouldn't see the mission, or the crash, just the space samples). When Spidey tries to stop a guy from robbing the place (it can just be normal thugs) he gets the symbiote.

Who are the villains? They can just be some usual gangster supervillains, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that for whatever reason he gets rid of the suit and it gets on Brock. Then we have 45 minutes or so of Brock vs Peter until Brock gets killed somehow. The 90s show had a great Venom story and they only needed 20 minutes to do it, they also managed to wrap up his story without a need to bring him back.

Brock was never a deep enough character beyond "I hate Spider-Man for whatever reason", so he doesn't need a lot of character-building time.

His whole "I know Peter's secret" stuff was just a replacement for Norman and Harry, since at the time Venom was made Norman was dead and Harry had "retired" from villainy (for a while). Hell, when Norman came back they made Venom forget Peter was Spidey so Norman could have his schtick back!
Hell, that's the whole problem with Brock to begin with. The most important thing about him is the reason he wants this man dead. He wants Peter Parker to suffer and die. That's a lot of f******* hatred built up there. Venoms's whole angle for being a villain in the first place is his connection to Peter/Spiderman and it sounds as if you are bypassing inportant aspects of the origin of it all just to see some kickass fist fights and stalking. Throw in some gangster supervillains, get rid of the suit for some reason, and give it to Brock since he has been all set up and raring to go. All style and no substance.

[Anwar]

Venom IS style with no substance. His whole thing is "I screwed up my own life but I'm going to blame Spider-Man for everything".

[Jack O Lantern]

If I were doing it I would use Ultimate Spider-Man the Ultimate Collection Vol 1 as the template.

After Uncle Ben is killed Peter looks into the burgular's past and decides to go after the Enforcers and then on to Kingpin. Obviously Kingpin can't be used as he is a Fox property but they could replace him easily enough.

[SymbioticToxin]

If I were doing it I would use Ultimate Spider-Man the Ultimate Collection Vol 1 as the template.

After Uncle Ben is killed Peter looks into the burgular's past and decides to go after the Enforcers and then on to Kingpin. Obviously Kingpin can't be used as he is a Fox property but they could replace him easily enough.
Instead of Kingpin, they could use the Big Man, or maybe even take the Rose and make him a crime boss instead of a regular criminal.

[Oscorp]

Sorry for making a huge post, so I'll post it under a Spoiler tag. But this is how I'd want a new franchise to be like, concerning the villains (I know the reboot won't have 6 movies but IF there would be 6 of them, this is how I'd like it to be):


-------

Spider-Man (Chameleon, Shocker, Tombstone & Kingpin):

Chameleon would fit as some kind of underground spy and agent for a terrorist group of some sort. The terrorist group's main purpose is to take over the whole New York and all it's economy. I imagine him at first being used by the terrorist group for assassination of important people such as police officers, ministers, company bosses and rivalling mob bosses. After an attempt to assassinate Norman Osborn and take over Oscorp, Spider-Man saves the day and they realise that Spider-Man should be the main target. Chameleon's main objective will therefore from now on be to kill Spider-Man. The terrorists should be lead by either Tombstone, Silvermane or Hammerhead imo. In the meanwhile, there's also another big group of criminals wrecking havoc by robbing banks while Spider-Man is busy taking down Chameleon and the terrorists. Those criminals should secretly be lead by Kingpin (Wilson Fisk), the owner of the economically powerful Fisk Industries (Oscorp's main rival). He uses criminals to make an even bigger income and become one of the world's most powerful companies in the world. Among the criminals is the powerful thug and bank robber Shocker, whom Spidey would have to battle too. The burglar who killed Uncle Ben in an escape is eventually one of Kingpin's criminals (Kingpin doesn't only use professionals but also normal thieves).

The origin should be presented in the opening credits I think. Either that, or flashbacks throughout the movie. The movie should take place when Spider-Man just became the hero he is.

In the end, Spider-Man will get to Tombstone/Silvermane/Hammerhead, defeat him and give him to the police. However, Chameleon will escape without leaving any trace. In the end, Spider-Man will face off against Shocker and defeat him too. He won't die either but be put in jail. Kingpin will still be left in the shadows with noone knowing who it really is.


Spider-Man 2 (Dr. Octopus, Kingpin & Green Goblin):

With the terrorist group defeated the city has become a better place. However, Kingpin's criminals are still active (without Shocker) and soon, another threat will arise. While working on a huge scientist project of some sort, something goes terribly wrong and the genious Dr. Otto Octavious wakes up under the debris of his demolished laboratorium. The arms he used are now fused to his body. Everything he had worked on is now lost and that makes him lose his mind. He becomes insane and some sort of superiority complex shows up. He is smarter and better than everyone and therefore deserves more. Everyone should obey to the one who's smartest, for only the most intelligent man should rule. That means, him. However, there's one obstacle: Spider-Man. He becomes obsessed in proving that he's superior to Spider-Man and does everything to defeat and outsmart him and becomes Spider-Man's greatest challenge ever. In the end, he threatens the whole city (in some way, haven't came up with how yet) and Spidey has to defeat him once and for all. The scene with Spider-Man under the huge debris should be there too imo. Dr. Octopus will also kill Captain Stacy (a police officer who helps out Spider-Man) during a battle and Gwen Stacy believes it's Spider-Man who caused his death. Dr. Octopus wouldn't die, but disappear somehow.

Also, in the end, Kingpin will die. He will not die in the hands of Spider-Man, but Green Goblin. Green Goblin will kind of appear out of nowhere and kill Kingpin in the Fisk Tower and leave bombs to take the HQ down. That will end the second movie in a cliffhanger. (Norman has become Green Goblin behind the scenes. He kills Kingpin to erase the company rival once and for all).


Spider-Man 3 (Green Goblin & Chameleon):

The movie will take places with the news of Wilson Fisk being dead and his company left in pieces. No one knows who the killer is but they expect it to be a terrorist group of some sort (maybe the one in Spider-Man 1 returning). But Norman is not fully satisfied yet. With the new powerful weapons he has, he wants to become the new "Kingpin" and eventually take over New York to be the one ruler. He terrorises the city all by himself and causes chaos. But Spider-Man is annoying to him, battling him several times, and he will do everything he can to defeat him. Norman traces down Chameleon, who's still alive and hidden in New York, and threatens to kill him if he doesn't help him track down Spider-Man and learning his real identity. However, in an attempt to do that, Chameleon fails, tries to hide from Norman not to get killed, but Green Goblin manages to kill him easily. Now, Green Goblin will try to do it himself and eventually, he somehow learnes that Spider-Man is Peter Parker, his son's best friend. The final battle will be when Green Goblin captures Gwen Stacy and drops her off the bridge, leading to her death when Spider-Man tries to catch her with his web. In rage, Spidey will battle against Green Goblin one final time, handing him his ass. When Green Goblin in a desperate attempt tries to kill him with his glider, he happens to kill himself with it. Spider-Man will take off his mask and learn that it was Norman Osborn.

In the end, it will end in a cliffhanger similar to the one in Spider-Man 2 (Raimi), discovering that his father actually was Green Goblin.


Spider-Man 4 (Mysterio & Scorpion):

The movie takes place a little while after the death of Norman Osborn. Harry is enraged at Spider-Man, as he believes he killed his father (he knew GG and Spidey had battled several times). However, he is also confused, not knowing what to feel. After all, his father was a maniacal killer.

However, after seeing news of Spider-Man robbing banks and killing people, he decides to start a new project, creating a super soldier: Scorpion. The project is funded by not only Oscorp itself, but also other companies who supports the idea of defeating Spider-Man once and for all. Among them are JJJ's Daily Bugle. Scorpion would be the perfect way to lock Spidey in as the criminal he is. Harry doesn't want to take over the mantle of Green Goblin. He doesn't want to be reminded of his father's evil deeds.

Not only is big companies wanting him in jail. He's now wanted by the cops and the whole city. Many people were against this masked webslinger before, but not as extremely as now.

Mysterio framing Spider-Man would be perfect for a "Spidey Gone Mad" story in the movie. He'd make Spidey believe that he really did all those bad things and make Spidey see other illusions to make him believe that he's really gone mad. Mysterio would also battle Spider-Man a couple of times in a way that would make Spidey believe that he's dreaming nightmares and not facing off Mysterio for real. Then, Spider-Man would eventually decide to go to a psychologist...Quentin Beck. This way, Quentin Beck would be able to discover Spider-Man's true identity and reveal it to the world, in a plan to make the people believe him to be the true hero (that's why he wouldn't really try to KILL Spider-Man earlier in the movie, only make Spidey feel insane and come off as evil to the people). However, Spidey somehow realises the psychologist isn't real and Spider-Man and Mysterio will later face off in a final battle. Spider-Man will also defeat Scorpion in another battle.

-------------------------

I haven't thought much of Spider-Man 5 and 6 yet. But in those I'd want to see Connors become the Lizard. I want to see Electro. I also want to see Harry become Green Goblin II and have a final battle against Spider-Man in the finale of the franchise. Though Green Goblin II alone in the last movie wouldn't be enough and I'm not sure what other villain to chose there. Maybe Doc Ock to return or something.

[©KAW]

Wait a minute, shouldn't Marvel have the movie rights to Daredevil, being that FOX hasn't made a Daredevil film in 7 years?

I like the idea of starting the franchise with smaller villains (I always liked Shocker) and working up to the A-List villains. Although, I desperately want to see THE LIZARD on film.

[SpeterMan3]

I like the idea of starting the franchise with smaller villains (I always liked Shocker) and working up to the A-List villains. Although, I desperately want to see THE LIZARD on film.
Yeah, I like that idea too. It could give the films a certain atmosphere and momentum that the others didn't have. If they did it like an arc of SSM, I think it would be pretty cool.

[Anwar]

Thing is, with movies you can't go in with the foreknowledge that you'd have a whole season of episodes to plot out stuff. You have to do a story and then conclude that story within the movie itself, and not do some big plot that won't resolve itself for like 3 movies or something. You don't HAVE to kill off the villain(s) of each flick but you can't just let them escape by the end of the film. Even the first X-Men movie ended with Magneto imprisoned.

[kedrell]

Scarecrow escaped.

[Spiderine]

Venom IS style with no substance. His whole thing is "I screwed up my own life but I'm going to blame Spider-Man for everything".
Venom can be style and substance with great writing. But the whole Venom saga should never be done in one movie.

[david icke]

Thing is, with movies you can't go in with the foreknowledge that you'd have a whole season of episodes to plot out stuff. You have to do a story and then conclude that story within the movie itself, and not do some big plot that won't resolve itself for like 3 movies or something. You don't HAVE to kill off the villain(s) of each flick but you can't just let them escape by the end of the film. Even the first X-Men movie ended with Magneto imprisoned.

Yeah, but you can also use the old comicbook trope of 'missing, presumed dead'.
That's what I thought they were going for with the Doc Ock ending, we never actually saw his body recovered and declared dead, so he could have been brought back in another movie.
This was used for Doc Doom in the FF films, the heroes surprised in the sequel that he is still alive.

and having another supervillan bust one out of prison is used all the time.
The Scarecrow example that kedrell gave, MrFreeze was also busted out of prison in the same movie by another super-villan.
Lex Luthor and Magneto were bust out in the sequels.
Another thing you could do, that was actually an interesting point in Superman Returns, was that the super-villan could be released on a legal technicality if the superhero does not turn up for court proceedings, in fact that could easily be used for a Spider-man movie, or many superhero movies. Didn't the Molten Man basically walk free from court after his first appearance in ASM, maybe he only served a short sentence?, can't recall, but that could be used too. They can't actually charge the crook with anything substantial due to lack of evidence, but can prove property damage or something, so they walk free after a couple of months in jail, in time for a sequel.

[Venom'sDad]

Yeah, but you can also use the old comicbook trope of 'missing, presumed dead' too.
That's what I thought they were going for with the Doc Ock ending, we never actually saw his body recovered and declared dead, so he could have been brought back in another movie.
This was was used for Doc Doom in the FF films, the heroes surprised in the sequel that he is still alive.

and having another supervillan bust one out of prison is used all the time.
The Scarecrow example that kedrell gave, MrFreeze was also busted out of prison in the same movie by another super-villan.
Lex Luthor and Magneto were bust out in the sequels.
Another thing you could do, that was actually an interesting point in Superman Returns, was that the super-villan could be released on a legal technicality if the superhero does not turn up for court proceedings, in fact that could easily be used for a Spider-man movie, or many superhero movies. Didn't the Molten Man basically walk free from court after his first appearance in ASM, maybe he only served a short sentence?, can't recall, but that could be used too. They can't actually charge the crook with anything substantial due to lack of evidence, but can prove property damage or something, so they walk free after a couple of months in jail in time for a sequel.
I thought the same about DocOck; but I certainly agree with much of what you said. There are many ways to end the villain; obviously a loss skill/idea with the Spidey flicks. Neitherless, I truely hope Sony and the next director learn not only from the previous films; but, from other comic films as well. The good & the bad.

[The Joker]

That's what I thought they were going for with the Doc Ock ending, we never actually saw his body recovered and declared dead, so he could have been brought back in another movie.


Did you notice in Spider-Man 3, they had the 'Doc Ock still at large' Daily Bugle headline hanging prominently right beside Jonah's desk, where we could see it clearly in several camera shots?

I thought that was another subtle little hint that maybe he might come back.

[zeptron]

^Didn't they use that headline in SM2? I can't remember.

[The Joker]

^Didn't they use that headline in SM2? I can't remember.

Yeah, they did. But I always thought out of all the headlines in the previous two movies, that's the one they showed so clearly to the audience in camera shots that they were guaranteed to notice it. Like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/Spider-Man3-384.jpg


All the other headlines on the wall, you'd have to stop and focus or squint to make them out.

[Anwar]

Venom can be style and substance with great writing. But the whole Venom saga should never be done in one movie.

In the 90s cartoon, they did the Venom saga in only three episode that when combined were less than 2 hours. And Brock only had two minor appearances before that story.

I say a 2 and a half hour flick are enough. As long as you don't waste time on the shuttle sequence and just have the symbiote already be on Earth hidden in some samples brought back by an off-screen space mission.

And also, make Brock a high school senior who bullied Peter (or a recent graduate who used to antagonize Peter). That way you can also give most of the more jerkish characterization Flash had that made him annoying to the audience to Brock, while leaving Flash a bit more sympathetic while keeping him as mean to Peter (thinking, "Well, he's not as bad as Brock...")

Basically, if you reinvent Brock from the ground up (like Ultimate and Spectacular did) or merge him with another character (like how SM3 sort of merged him with Lance Bannon) he's a better character than the comics version of Brock (and none of those versions are all THAT good either, which really says something...).

As for Scarecrow, that example doesn't work since he was reduced to comic relief in the next movie anyways and was just Ghul's flunky to begin with.

[I'm Venom]

That's the whole movie?

Of course not. The movie would continue after Spider-Man's first fight with Venom by showing stuff from the comics like others have suggested, with Brock stalking Parker, terrorizing Mary Jane, visiting Aunt May, etc. It would definitely end with a battle between the two, but I'd keep Brock alive this time around.

[david icke]

As for Scarecrow, that example doesn't work since he was reduced to comic relief in the next movie anyways and was just Ghul's flunky to begin with.

Of course it does. Your original point was that you couldn't have a villan out there on the loose at the end of the movie, and as kedrell said, they already did it in BB.
They could've used the Screcrow any number of ways in TDK, the point is, they didn't have him in prison at the end of BB.
The way you perceive his role in BB is not relevant either, he was one of the two main villans who got a lot of screentime, and was picked from the top tier of Batman's rogue's gallery.

[Astro13Zombie]

I would love to see rhino in a movie....but i can't see him being the main bad guy....maybe just used as a distraction for spidey while the main villain does something or other?
I know multiple villains in a movie is bad(spider-man 3)
But im talking only maybe...15 minutes of rhino?
Like in the 04 punisher(I know...not very popular)...when they
"Called in the Russian"(i just realised that Rhino is Russian too.heh)
And he appeared...did his thing...and then he was gone)
And it was awesome...and it didn't take away from the other characters and didn't slow the story down at all..It's just a chance for a cool action sequence with a cool villain..that isn't main bad guy material.

Same goes for chameleon.

[zeptron]

I know multiple villains in a movie is bad(spider-man 3).


....

Do I really have to explain that just simply having multiple villains doesn't = crap movie AGAIN?

[Parker Wayne]

....

Do I really have to explain that just simply having multiple villains doesn't = crap movie AGAIN?

I dislike when people say that too. It all depends on the writer and the director. Some people just can't handle multiple villains, and some can.

[Anwar]

SM3's problem wasn't multiple villains, it was that they didn't have anything to tie the villains together with and thus we got something along the lines of 3 mini-movies that were overlapping rather than one movie with three villains.

Look at Batman Returns or Iron Man for cases of there being more than one villain and it works.

Again, with Scarecrow he was just another villain's flunky and he was pretty much harmless on his own without Ghul to back him up with resources (without the League to set him up with Arkham, he wouldn't even have chemicals and is thus just a guy in a bag-mask). It's not the same as a fully armed villain capable of taking on Spidey escaping to fight another day. What happened to Scarecrow is more akin to the Shocker running off after his gauntlets have been destroyed and he can't make another pair.

Brock stalking Peter and terrorizing him through his loved ones is good enough for 30 minutes AT MOST. A Venom-only movie doesn't have enough material on its own.

[©KAW]

Yeah, but can the new director handle multiple villains? I say to be on the safe side, let's start the first film with ONE main villain, with background villains (Norman Osborn/Otto Octavius) who are not yet there super-powered alter egos.

[david icke]

Again, with Scarecrow he was just another villain's flunky and he was pretty much harmless on his own without Ghul to back him up with resources (without the League to set him up with Arkham, he wouldn't even have chemicals and is thus just a guy in a bag-mask). It's not the same as a fully armed villain capable of taking on Spidey escaping to fight another day. What happened to Scarecrow is more akin to the Shocker running off after his gauntlets have been destroyed and he can't make another pair.


Yeah, and *again*, lol, regardless of how you think of the character's use in the movie, he was one of the two major villans used in a superhero movie.
It doesn't matter if *you* think he was an ineffective villan/threat/adaptation, he *was* a major villan used in the movie, and did not end up in jail by the end of it, you forgot about him when you typed up your take on that earlier, so, y'know, it's no big deal to forget, just don't try to wiggle out of it by playing semantics, lol.

[zeptron]

You know Batman & Robin still would have been crap even if Mr Freeze was the sole villain.

Here's what they did wrong

Harry - Nothin really wrong with his character per-se, except for the whole pointless amnesia storyline. It wasn't enough for him just to hate Peter following the events of SM2?

But anyway the previous movie set him up to be a villain. After SM2 fans were thinking GG2 and when SM3 poster came, GG2 was wiped clean from peoples minds because it was *gasp* VENOM. SM3 should have been mostly Harry's story. Instead it was all about Venom in the fans eyes leaving Harry to be ignored.

Sandman - Yeah, making him Uncle's Ben killer was really unneeded, but my problem was that they make him not really a bad guy, but he goes around causing collateral damage, attacking people, and going along with a plot to kidnap an innocent woman just so he could kill SM. It was hard to sympathize with him. This is why Vulture should not have been cut, because he was supposed to be the one to manipulate Sandman into commiting those crimes. Removing this just makes Sandman look like a douche who didn't give a damn what he did.

Venom - He shouldn't have been in the movie in the first place.

[Thundercrack85]

The real issue with the last trilogy is that most of the villains weren't really villains.

Although something of a jerk, Norman Osborn seemed like a relatively harmless man until he went crazy in an experiment.

Dr. Octopus was also a good guy, until he had his accident, and the arms made him go nuts.

For the new movies, it would be nice if the villains are really villains.

They also need to set some up. You could easily have Norman Osborn appear as a villain, but save the Green Goblin for the second movie. You can have Otto Octavius in the first or second movie and save the Dr. Octopus stuff for a second or third movie. Villains also don't necessarily have to be caught/killed off in the first movie they appear in.

Or just watch the Spectacular Spider-man tv show.

[Anwar]

To be honest, I do think that it was kind of strange that Otto went from some physicist at OsCorp to wanting to rule the world. Sure, we had ONE scene of him wanting to attack Norman...but it's NORMAN, ANYONE wants to do that to him...

Thing is, with Norman and Otto their motives aren't that believable: I mean, Norman was ALREADY a rich and powerful man, so why would he risk that all by dressing up as a Goblin to take over the Underworld when there were less risky ways of doing it?

Why would a respected atomic researcher suddenly want to rule the world just because he got hit with a radioactive blast?

I mean, sure it can be reasoned that their accidents simply drove them nuts but that's lazy writing and doesn't give them much depth since their prior personalities wouldn't play into their characters anymore.

[Mistah K88]

I'd like to see the major guys introduced in a movie or 2 before they become thier costumed super-selves. They sort-of did if for Harvey Dent in Burton's Batman...

Oh as for the motivations for Gobby and Ock in SSM.

Octavius' personality change comes from the fact that he has been "good" (though he did get quite a kick out of making Rhino) and obedient lackey for most if not all his life...After all of that servitude where does that get him? Boom. That's where the drastic personality change came from. He's now the opposite from what he was...and you know...he's actually kinda successful in becoming powerful force in the city...

As for Osborn, when Vulture initially attacked him he was indeed scared of Toomes. Normally always being in control, Norman did not like to feel so vulnerable. Therefore he went and made him self physically formidable as well...Also...well...he's nuts. I mean he was successful in becoming a crime lord, but he went and used all of his criminal resources and gangs to kill one guy; rather than distract him and make money while he's fighting weirdos like the Big Man was doing.

[Anwar]

We can use the "Goblin serum made him unstable" stuff as an excuse for Norman, but in the end unless they have him actually try and stick to his goal of conquering the underworld in a way that made sense (he's involved with major gangsters and doesn't like being dependent on them, for example) he'll just suffer from Motive Decay.

As for Otto, I had to wonder why he immediately decided to conquer the world as a gaudy supervillain. I KNOW his brain was fried but still he'd have been more successful in his "Master Planner" plot if he'd just quit OsCorp and started his own Company while secretly building his super-computer to conquer the world.

Then again, he IS nuts...but like I said, that's kind of a lame excuse for excusing his motive roulette.

What the movies have to do is have Norman and Otto become villains with actual motivation that fits their personalities. They AREN'T just psycho criminals like most Batman villains always were, they were respected members of the community. So if a powerful billionaire businessman decides to dress up for Halloween and conquer the Underworld we'd better be shown WHY he'd do that in the first place, and if a respected scientist is in an accident that fuses his mechanical arms to his spine he'd better have a good reason for suddenly turning to crime or wanting to rule the world instead of...just continuing his work.

[The Joker]

We can use the "Goblin serum made him unstable" stuff as an excuse for Norman, but in the end unless they have him actually try and stick to his goal of conquering the underworld in a way that made sense (he's involved with major gangsters and doesn't like being dependent on them, for example) he'll just suffer from Motive Decay.

As for Otto, I had to wonder why he immediately decided to conquer the world as a gaudy supervillain. I KNOW his brain was fried but still he'd have been more successful in his "Master Planner" plot if he'd just quit OsCorp and started his own Company while secretly building his super-computer to conquer the world.

Then again, he IS nuts...but like I said, that's kind of a lame excuse for excusing his motive roulette.

What the movies have to do is have Norman and Otto become villains with actual motivation that fits their personalities. They AREN'T just psycho criminals like most Batman villains always were, they were respected members of the community. So if a powerful billionaire businessman decides to dress up for Halloween and conquer the Underworld we'd better be shown WHY he'd do that in the first place, and if a respected scientist is in an accident that fuses his mechanical arms to his spine he'd better have a good reason for suddenly turning to crime or wanting to rule the world instead of...just continuing his work.

Are you talking about the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon here? Because if you're referring to the comics, I can rip this argument to shreds :oldrazz:

[Anwar]

Well, in the comics they've had over 40 years to give Norman and Otto good motives for what the do (though I am curious as to what Otto's motive is these days since he keeps changing them). It's harder to pull off all that development in 1 or 2 movies.

I think Norman should be a background arc villain for two movies before going Goblin, and Otto can already be Doc Ock when the story starts with his backstory being filled in as the movies go on.

[The Joker]

Well, in the comics they've had over 40 years to give Norman and Otto good motives for what the do (though I am curious as to what Otto's motive is these days since he keeps changing them). It's harder to pull off all that development in 1 or 2 movies.

Huh? Their motives have not changed. When did they change? They're still very much the power hungry, ruthless bastards they've always been. The only difference is that we've seen insight into their backgrounds to see what made them turn out the way they did.

And I think you're wrong when you say it's always necessary to delve into what makes a villain a villain. Did Hannibal Lecter suffer from lack of motive exploration in The Silence of the Lambs? Or The Joker in TDK? Or Darth Vader in the original Star Wars movies? It's simply implied to the audience that they're monsters.

You claim that's not good enough. Not for every villain, no. But aside from just being nasty or violently repressed people, power also corrupts. There are people like Osborn and Octavius who want to climb to the top of the heap, and they don't care who they have to step on to do it. Give them a means to do it, i.e. Goblin serum, or mechanical tentacles, and you have yourself some very nasty villains.

That's something Raimi didn't seem to get in his movies. All the villains had to be decent guys who somehow lost something, or were corrupted by something, or were simply misguided. None of them were inherently bad, save for maybe Eddie Brock. And even then he just came across as a sleazy jerk. His prayer to god to kill Peter Parker came completely out of left field and was totally unconvincing.

My point is that I don't buy your claim that it's a lame excuse to say these guys are evil, crazy, and power hungry. It's the staple of these characters. What's cliche is making them all poor misguided souls who lost something and are lashing out.

[Astro13Zombie]

....

Do I really have to explain that just simply having multiple villains doesn't = crap movie AGAIN?

No.
I just decided to throw that in there to try and avoid..
'R U STOOPID? REMBER SPIDERMAN 3?!!!11"
heh

[ModestMr.Green]

Motive Decay.


Nothing to contribute here, but I just wanted to thank this post for redirecting me to TV Tropes for an hour.

[Parker Wayne]

I love Tv Tropes. I learn a lot about themes and many things through that site.

And yeah I think the villains in the new Spiderman films should be more ruthless than the Raimi films. I don't have problems with Raimi making them sympathetic, but I have a problem with him doing it for all three films. And the the only unsympathetic villain he created was a villain he hated.

[Anwar]

Didn't Avi Arad tell him that the villains should all be connected to Peter some way and be a bit more sympathetic?

Since Arad won't have as much influence this time around it might work better. You CAN have monstrous villains while maintaining some as sympathetic.

Sandman for example, he's been sympathetic in the comics for like 30 years almost. The Spectacular cartoon and movies kept him sympathetic.

The movie went overboard and didn't pay attention to how unsympathetic some of his actions made him, though. The comics and Spectacular cartoon kept track of themselves and made sure that Sandman never killed anyone in cold blood or pulled off seriously evil stuff, so the sympathy was retained there.

If they want to have some sympathetic villains in the new movies, they just have to make sure to have them commit criminals actions that are rather low-level and not anything too malicious. So any sympathetic villains shouldn't be the central ones (except Harry, if he ever becomes a villain this time around) since those ones DO require bigger evil moments.

[cerealkiller182]

I think Sandman would have worked better if Doc OCk wasnt sympathetic. I would have liked a more mad scientist like Ock driven by completing the science than literally driven by the experiment. At the end, instead of sacrificing himself to stop his failing experiment he should have defended his project against Spiderman trying to finish it proving himself right but dying at the hands of it.

[Anwar]

I'd like them to maintain the whole "Norman got his powers by accident" thing, because it better parallels him to Peter.

My idea would be that maybe in the second movie (with Norman being a background corporate villain for the first two) some villains who either work for Norman or are working for one of his rivals go after him at OsCorp during one of his shady weapons deals. Peter tracks them there and in the ensuing battle, Norman gets a face full of the Goblin Serum/Gas. After being hospitalized and treated, he realizes that he's been endowed with superpowers (and driven insane). Thus setting the stage for the Green Goblin.

Yes, it's similar to Derek Powers/Blight but Blight always seemed like a Norman-esque figure to me.

[The Joker]

95% of Spidey's villains got their powers by accident. It's hardly unique to Norman. There is no real parallels between Norman and Spider-Man. They have very little in common.

[Anwar]

ViciousX and MadGoblin would disagree with that ;).

He fits the "opposite" thing better than Venom does, at least.

[The Joker]

ViciousX and MadGoblin would disagree with that ;)

I'd love to hear their reasoning. Norman is rich, Peter is middle class. Norman didn't lose any parents, Peter did. Norman is a father, Peter is not.

Peter's opposite is Doctor Octopus. Both of them grew up in middle class New York, both were science geeks in school with big round glasses, both of them were bullied for it, both were lonely and had no friends, both were unpopular with girls, both lost a parent figure at a young age, both are products of their upbringing, both acquired their powers through their love of science. But Peter uses his great power with great responsibility, whereas Octavius goes to the other extreme because he never had the moral values instilled in him growing up that Peter did.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/DoctorOck/GeekPeter1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/DoctorOck/OttoGeek1.jpg


Even in Spider-Man 2, Peter's and Otto's stories paralleled eachother. Peter was being irresponsible by giving up his responsibility of being Spider-Man so he could live his dream of a normal life. Otto was being irresponsible by doing evil things in order to make his dream of completing his life's work succeed. It's why Peter was able to quote Aunt May's speech to Ock at the end. It applied to both of them.

Should watch the Ockumentary on the SM-2 DVD special features, too. The writers at Marvel say, and I quote "If you think Spider-Man is the geek gone good, then Octavius is the geek gone bad".

He fits the "opposite" thing better than Venom does, at least.

That's true. Aside from similar powers, there's nothing Peter and Eddie have in common.

[zeptron]

And yeah I think the villains in the new Spiderman films should be more ruthless than the Raimi films. I don't have problems with Raimi making them sympathetic, but I have a problem with him doing it for all three films. And the the only unsympathetic villain he created was a villain he hated.

If Vulture was in 3 he would have been pure evil from the beginning.

[ModestMr.Green]

I'd rather they took Ultimate Spider-Man's approach to Norman's 'transformation.' (Not necessarily referring to the Jolly Green Goblin.) He was already a sick, sinister bastard, even when he wasn't under the influence of the Oz. (Or performance enhancing formula, depending on your preference.) He was an evil jerk who put out a hit on Peter just to avoid a lawsuit and project stalls, and, for all intents and purposes, meant to make himself into what he became.

[Anwar]

Well, here's MadGoblin's views: http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/GreenwithEvil/goblinlegacy.html

ViciousX's, taken from a larger review of the Spectacular Spiderman S2 finale:

"Norman Osborn is the anti-Peter Parker. And that is especially true in this series. The two biggest threats to the Big Man were men in masks. Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, and both for totally different reasons.

When Peter and Norman put on their masks, they can cut loose. Truly cut loose. Peter is more confident when he's Spidey, and gets to escape the insecurities and personal problems of Peter Parker by becoming someone else. Where as, Norman Osborn, when he puts on his mask, gets to be himself. The Goblin is his face, Norman Osborn is the mask.

It's more than the both of them being trickster figures. It boils down to the psychosis of both of them. Masks are a big part of their lives. Norman collects them for a reason, because his entire public persona is a mask. I doubt even his wife and son know who he really is.

Peter would love to give up being Spider-Man. He's thought about it more than once, especially when he had the gene cleanser. Norman would never give up being the Goblin. He'd rather give up being Norman, and in a way that showed considering he didn't look too broken up about fleeing the country under an alias. He even flirted with the flight attendant.

Greg Weisman has always said that the secret to creating a great villain is to make them a dark mirror to the soul of your hero. The Goblin personifies that quite well. From all that I mentioned above, to little things like Norman being upperclass and Peter being lower class"

[I'm Venom]

Amazing Spider-Man (2012)
Peter Parker is introduced as a teenager living with his aunt and uncle. One day, he’s bitten by a spider during a demonstration. As a result, he gains powers such as the ability to climb walls. After his uncle‘s death, Peter and his Aunt May become desperate for money, so he gets a job as a photographer for the Daily Bugle selling photos to J. Jonah Jameson, who has begun to vilify Spider-Man in the paper and proves to be jealous of him. Eddie Brock (Jensen Ackles), a journalist for the Bugle, sets out on a mission to defame Spider-Man.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014)
Peter pines after Mary Jane Watson.

Amazing Spider-Man 3 (2017)
The symbiote bonds to Peter, resulting in the formation of a black costume. Brock is fired from the Bugle in disgrace. Once Peter separates himself from the alien, it finds a new host in the form of Brock, who confronts Mary Jane at Peter’s apartment in the final scene of the film.

Amazing Spider-Man 4 (2020)
Brock now possesses powers similar to those of Spider-Man, blaming him for his misfortune, and becomes determined to kill Spider-Man. The symbiote imparts Brock with the knowledge of Spider-Man’s identity, and Brock names himself Venom. Venom then battles Spider-Man for the first time. He then encounters Parker as Brock at Aunt May’s house. Spider-Man defeats Venom by tempting the costume to reattach itself to him.

[TheWallCrawler]

Do the villains like in the Spectacular Spider-man. Have a mob boss hiring Norman to keep making these super thugs to distract Spider-Man from the boss's crimes, if done right you could do alot of the secondary villains along with teh big name ones and maybe even set up the sinister six for the third one.

that would be a good idea, except since as you know it is already done pretty well in the spectacular spiderman series, so I think they want to do something different and original rather than just copying the thing from the series

[The Joker]

Well, here's MadGoblin's views: http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/GreenwithEvil/goblinlegacy.html

I don't see anything there that highlights their similarities. If anything, he points out how they are completely different. He even pointed out a few that I missed.

ViciousX's, taken from a larger review of the Spectacular Spiderman S2 finale:

"Norman Osborn is the anti-Peter Parker. And that is especially true in this series. The two biggest threats to the Big Man were men in masks. Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, and both for totally different reasons.

That goes for EVERY comic book character who wears a mask. They all get to go all out when they put on their masks and adopt a new persona.

Might as well apply that to Venom, Black Cat, Scorpion, Hobgoblin etc. That is not unique to Norman.

Peter would love to give up being Spider-Man. He's thought about it more than once, especially when he had the gene cleanser. Norman would never give up being the Goblin. He'd rather give up being Norman, and in a way that showed considering he didn't look too broken up about fleeing the country under an alias. He even flirted with the flight attendant.

Again, that goes for most of Spidey's villains. Most of Spidey's villains don't want to be "cured" of their powers. Venom and Doc Ock included. In fact when Brock is separated from his symbiote, and Ock from his tentacles, they yearn to get the back. It was in fact that when they first managed to separate Ock from his tentacles in ASM Annual #1, we found out he had to the ability to still mentally control them even though he was not physically attached to them.

[Anwar]

Which I always found strange about Otto, I mean he was HAPPY doing his scientist work and all that. So why DID he turn to crime after he got his arms welded to his back? Why not just...become a better scientist since he now had many more arms to work with?

If they redid the character so he was already involved with criminals or something then his motives make more sense, but the whole "I want to randomly become a crimeboss even though I was never associated with criminals before nor does anything in my life really lead up to wanting to be a criminal" thing...doesn't really work for a live-action audience.

Guys like Norman and Roderick Kingsley however, it's easy to see they were already criminals to begin with.

Venom, well if he could go back to being an "innocent" he'd give up the symbiote to do it. Of course the whole thing is just him not being able to accept it's his OWN fault, which makes him rather pathetic. He's not even that good a supervillain since he's just a superpowered stalker and not a true criminal.

A lot of these characters need a bit of a redo when it comes to live-action in terms of motivation (not guys like Norman or Kingsley though) and justification of actions.

This may explain it: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutLexLuthorACheck

[Ajendo]

Which I always found strange about Otto, I mean he was HAPPY doing his scientist work and all that. So why DID he turn to crime after he got his arms welded to his back? Why not just...become a better scientist since he now had many more arms to work with?

Because it's human nature to sometimes have a different outlook and sometimes a change in character when one comes into power.
Octavius may have been meek and loved his craft but he had an air of arrogance about him and with his brilliant mind coupled with powers that could get him what he wanted, why continue to be the do-gooding lap dog? He was now his own master and while venuring on his criminal activities, he still progressed as a scientist.

If they redid the character so he was already involved with criminals or something then his motives make more sense, but the whole "I want to randomly become a crimeboss even though I was never associated with criminals before nor does anything in my life really lead up to wanting to be a criminal" thing...doesn't really work for a live-action audience.

I disagree. Otto never found genuine acceptance for who he was a person. With his brilliant mind and his powers to ultimately do anything he damn well wants, striking fear and seeking loyalty from those who would give it to him without much hesitation is something he'd gladly pursue. A genius mind doesn't have to vecome criminal, they simply choose to because it's all the more appealing to varying degress, which of course depends on the person.

Guys like Norman and Roderick Kingsley however, it's easy to see they were already criminals to begin with.

Which makes them less interesting characters compared to those such as Ock.

A lot of these characters need a bit of a redo when it comes to live-action in terms of motivation (not guys like Norman or Kingsley though) and justification of actions.

Maybe but Doc Ock is fine the way he was conceptually written. It just needs to be executed correctly.

[Anwar]

I see Ock as less the kind of guy who would go out an become a crimelord after his accident, but more the kind who would now no longer have any inhibitions about his experiments and goals to the point where he'd leave the scientific establishment in a huff and become a mercenary recluse who would sell his services to anyone for extremely high fees.

He'd get involved with the Underworld from there, while obtaining funding for private experiments and get tied to the crimeworld from the association since he'd need them for money and rare equipment. Then he decides he likes being in charge of himself so he keeps his own gang not for the sake of being a criminal but because he likes the personal power and how the Underworld doesn't hold him back the way "legitimate" science does.

On the other hand, what I've written is more or less "Scientist turns criminal" but just a deeper exploration of HOW that would happen.

[Ajendo]

Well, why charge high fees, when he could simply go out and take the money by force? Ock was repressed his entire life, which leaked on into his career. Being given deadly powers in addition to his brilliant mind would give him the confidence to do things on his own terms. Strike fear and gain the respect he believes he deserves. It's also a mental thing too. Being in a position where you have no inhibitions and the majority of people are powerless to stop you is quite enticing.

[The Joker]

Which I always found strange about Otto, I mean he was HAPPY doing his scientist work and all that. So why DID he turn to crime after he got his arms welded to his back? Why not just...become a better scientist since he now had many more arms to work with?

Dude, what comic books are you reading? As soon as Octavius became Doc Ock, he went and took over the Atomic Research facility where he worked, and tried to prove he was the master of all radiation.

All of Ock's schemes are scientifically based. He's always trying to prove something scientifically, or master something, or pervert it to his own advantage.

Even in that ludicrous story where he tried to marry Aunt May, the only reason he did it was because she inherited some nuclear facility on an island that he wanted to get his hands on so he could build atomic weapons.

[Anwar]

Dude, what comic books are you reading? As soon as Octavius became Doc Ock, he went and took over the Atomic Research facility where he worked, and tried to prove he was the master of all radiation.

That's exactly what I mean, he basically could have just left the hospital and gone straight back to work only now he'd be a BETTER scientist since he had 4 extra metal arms. Instead he broke out of the hospital and tried to take over the place not caring if he had to kill people to do it even though he WORKED there and was already a respected scientist so he could have just tried to "Master Radiation" without the violence. They gave the explanation of "Well, the radiation made him nuts" but that's pretty lazy.

If they just made him an arrogant jerk with had some underworld connections before the accident, or he is blamed for the accident and his career ruined as a result and he wants revenge, THEN his motives for becoming a renegade mad scientist work in conjunction with radioactive brain damage.

[The Joker]

That's exactly what I mean, he basically could have just left the hospital and gone straight back to work only now he'd be a BETTER scientist since he had 4 extra metal arms.

LOL! What?

He always had the four extra arms. What do you think he was wearing in his lab when he had his accident? They don't have to be fused to his body in order for him to use them in his lab.

So what is this "He could have been a better scientist with 4 extra metal arms" thing you're talking about?

Instead he broke out of the hospital and tried to take over the place not caring if he had to kill people to do it even though he WORKED there and was already a respected scientist so he could have just tried to "Master Radiation" without the violence. They gave the explanation of "Well, the radiation made him nuts" but that's pretty lazy.

If they just made him an arrogant jerk with had some underworld connections before the accident, or he is blamed for the accident and his career ruined as a result and he wants revenge, THEN his motives for becoming a renegade mad scientist work in conjunction with radioactive brain damage.

I mean no disrespect, man, but seriously go and pick up a comic book or two. Octavius WAS an arrogant jerk, who thought he was bigger and better than everyone else. He even had psychotic tendencies shortly before his accident. The accident just removed those inhibitions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan05.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan04.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan02.jpg

[Ajendo]

Anwar, I think you have a limited or at least a naieve perspective of how the human mind works under certain conditions.

[SymbioticToxin]

LOL! What?

He always had the four extra arms. What do you think he was wearing in his lab when he had his accident? They don't have to be fused to his body in order for him to use them in his lab.

So what is this "He could have been a better scientist with 4 extra metal arms" thing you're talking about?



I mean no disrespect, man, but seriously go and pick up a comic book or two. Octavius WAS an arrogant jerk, who thought he was bigger and better than everyone else. He even had psychotic tendencies shortly before his accident. The accident just removed those inhibitions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan05.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan04.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan02.jpg
I have this comic, an I love it!

[Anwar]

Now, you see, if THAT kind of backstory is given to Otto and its shown he was already an unstable jerk beforehand, THEN Doc Ock makes sense. I haven't read that story, and I thank you for posting the scans here.

[Captain America]

An unused villain for sure, other then maybe doc ock.

Doc Ock, Mysterio or Lizard would probably be my top pick, just one of em', no multiple villains, to much to establish in a first film.

[TheWallCrawler]

my choice for the villains:
1st movie: Shocker and the scorpion
2nd movie: The green goblin (and birth of dr. octopus)
3rd movie: dr. octopus and chameleon (enter black suit)
4th movie: Venom

[TheFuture]

I'd say:

One: The Lizard as the prime villain with Tombstone pulling the strings of crime. Hammerhead being his chronie of course.
Two: Finds black suit. Tombstone ****s over Norman. Norman becomes GG. A kind of turf war ensues between the two. Black suit causes Spidey nearly to kill, gets rid of it.
Three: Venom as the prime villain with Chameleon as an annoying side problem.

Of course this won't happen and this is probably going to be a franchise that looks to make the $$$ every which way possible. The likes of Chameleon, Tombstone and Hammerhead probably won't sell merchandise.

[Anwar]

I dunno, make Hammerhead an adamantium cyborg like he is in the comics now and he might sell a few action figures...

[Gamma Goliath]

Hmm, I wouldn't go that far hammer head, I would stick with a more traditional version.
Then again, I'm not sure I'd even use hammer head

[Maximum Carnage]

Carnage!!!11!

[Maximum Carnage]

.. jk. :p

[Captain America]

Hmm, I wouldn't go that far hammer head, I would stick with a more traditional version.
Then again, I'm not sure I'd even use hammer head

He'd be a tough one to do right.

[Captain America]

delete

[I'm Venom]

1st film: Shocker (Brock shows up)
2nd film: Chameleon (Connors does experiment)
3rd film: Lizard & Tombstone (enter symbiote)
4th film: Venom

[I'm Venom]

delete

[I'm Venom]

delete

[Rodrigo90]

The villains Im using are,

Otto Octavius. He appears in a flashback as being the one who created the device that accidentally irradiated the spider that bites Peter.

Norman Osborn. Its later revealed he is being blackmailed by a mysterious organization to continue work with an unknown drug,and dangerous weapons.

The Organization. A mysterious group of criminals who have connections to almost every heavy crime in the world. Their NYC base is the Chrysler Building.

Adrian Toomes. A Scientist deployed by the organization to work with Norman.

Electro/Maxwell Dillon. The main danger. An engineer at Oscorp,who is involved in an accident and becomes Electro. First working for the organization,then going rogue.

[zeptron]

Electro and the Enforcers(hired by Norman Osborn)

[blah]

You know how the first scenes with Spidey in them usually shows him kicking a nameless thug around? Well, why not have low-key villains peppered throughout the movie in lieu of the odd gangster?

Have him beat up that boomerang chap, or even that idiot Slyde XDD

[TheWrathOfGod]

Adrian Toomes/ Vulture: John Malkovich
Dmitri Smerdyakov/ Chameleon: Vincent Cassel
Frederick Foswell/ Big Man: Ray Winstone

[©KAW]

LOL! What?

He always had the four extra arms. What do you think he was wearing in his lab when he had his accident? They don't have to be fused to his body in order for him to use them in his lab.

So what is this "He could have been a better scientist with 4 extra metal arms" thing you're talking about?



I mean no disrespect, man, but seriously go and pick up a comic book or two. Octavius WAS an arrogant jerk, who thought he was bigger and better than everyone else. He even had psychotic tendencies shortly before his accident. The accident just removed those inhibitions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan05.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan04.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/octopus/OckScan02.jpg
Now this is the kind of characterization of the great Doctor Octopus that I wanted to see presented on film. And people think that you can't produce high-quality entertainment through Spider-Man, that it's just a fun and popular juvenile property.

The dialogue between the the preacher and Ock is great, a man damning God and his father in one breathe, and doing it at his funeral. And all we get is juvenile antics, boring and cheesy writing on film.

[spidermanJLA!~]

Tombstone just became my vote. They need a villain who will beat spidey up. Then he can work out a plan to take him down. Also, there will be more thugs for spidey to beat up. Kingpin is a good choice too. I want a crime boss. Not like the 1990's spider-man though. The kingpin or tombstone are linked to other villains, which will make the movie franchise fun to watch. I want to see spidey to take out some thugs! Spidey needs to show his moves! Slow-mo and all that!

[ModestMr.Green]

Y'know, if Kingpin isn't possible, I don't see why we need some random substitute. I think the best option would be to beef up the Big Man. He comes with the Enforcers, and they could play up the corruption from within the Bugle. This would also be a nice segue into the serious J.J. that a lot of us are hoping to see, and provide his Spider-hate with some depth. Masked men and dual identities operating within his own publication would be more than enough of a good reason to hate Spider-Man.

[Nimibro]

hmm... if yuo want to go with good, complex, rich plot, why not connect the villains?

main villains

1st film:

lizard: like the MTV version, a man who had his hand blown up in a set-up by norman osborn, so he won't testify on osborn's pollution in the arizonian swamps. when he turns into lizard, he goes after osborn so he could get revenge on him. after fighting spider-man and turning back to doc connors, turns himself in and sent to the raft.

kraven: a hunter who heard of the lizard and tries to "hunt" him and spider-man for his "kraven: quest of dignity" reality show, a part of his real journey for honour and as a sadistic hobby. defeated after a lengthy fight by spider-man and sent to a gulag.

2nd film:

Dr. octopus: an acclaimed nuclear physicist and genicologist who worked at oscorp and discovered norman osborn, his boss and CEO, had a hand with lonnie "tombstone" lincoln, wilson "kingpin" fisk and a secret illegal project SHIELD rejected called "oz", which was a superhuman enhancment drug, and was going to testify against osborn, so osborn sabotaged a major experiment of his using dmitri smerdiakov, also known as chameleon, and the sabotage resulted in a big explosion, and a radioactive cloud which poisoned octavius (who didn't die because of a prototype metal harness shielded him from half of the radioation), affected osborn and killed many other scientists. 6 months after the incident, octavius, suffering from radioation poisoning, an emerging chemical disorder and mental illneses wakes from his coma, kills the doctors in the hospital and escapes after beating spider-man brutally and harming osborn. he makes a deal with vulture so he'll distract spider-man and octavius, now named by the press "dr. octopus" for his 4 metal limbs, will kill osborn. in the climax, he fends off spidey by making the spider-tracers affect spider-man's spider sense, so he'll see all the persons in the crowd as menaces to him, but spider-man destroys the device and fights with octavius on the oscorp roof, where falling debris kills captain george stacey. octavius is beaten by spider-man and is sent to the raft, not before telling to osborn that "what's doesn't kills you makes you stronger".

vulture: manager of toomes+bestman electronics, he was relucant not to sell his company to oscorp, but discovers one day that his partner bestman did nto only sold his company to osborn, but embezzled funds, enraged, he killed bestman and built a flying, magnetic harness to take revenge at osborn and to rob banks for his own retirement and for, well, the money. tried to rob the daily bugle payroll, but was stopped by spider-man, a thing that was later evealed as distraction so otto octavius, another man with a vendetta against osborn could kill norman. he was sent to the raft, after proven too dangerous (and smart) for a normal prison.

3rd film:

the goblin: as octavius said, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". developing paranoia, schizophrenia and apparently dying from the radioation, osborn injects himself with the "OZ" drug and is enhanced by it. the side-effects though, are that he grows two boney, small horns from his forehead, his skin becomes, well, greener and he has walking nightmares of a goblin-like creature draped in armor and purple robes. he creates a costume, made from oscorp materials, and becomes obsessive after uncovering some files that belonged to project-arachnid, an oscorp project that tested the OZ on spider, and deduced spider-man's identity. he took liz allan, peter's fellow classmate's brother, mark allan, who has gotten in trouble with the mob after losing a gamble, into a freak called "molten man", bombed peter's school, tempered with prof. miles warren, peter's teacher and fought with spider-man. he tried to bomb oscorp with two kidnapped mobsters (tombstone and hammerhead) in it, to remove any speculation norman osborn was goblin, but the plan backfired when spider-man ruined it and the goblin retreated. when peter found and unmasked the goblin in osborn'spenthouse, it was revealed to be harry, peter's best friend and norman's son. peter uncovered security tapes of a wounded osborn drugging harry, wounding him and dressing him in a goblin outfit and releases it to the media. the enraged osborn hires molten man to distract spider-man, and norman kidnaps peter's GF, gwen, and kills her on quinsborough bridge. he, again, retreats to his penthouse, pursued by peter, and fights with him. norman gets the upper hand, and reveals that he used chameleon to portray him in the public, and that he was the goblin this whole time. harry, waking from his drug-induced unconsciusness and hearing it, realising how evil his father is, picks a sword and kills norman, then collapsing himself.

4th film:

mysterio: a mysterious criminal, he throws wilson fisk from a roof, uses scams and hallucination gas to rob banks and practiclly turns the city into a panicking, crime-festing garbage can. he his mostly in the shadows, but almost kills spider-man after drugging him. when spider-man gets a symbiote, he beats the living crap out of mysterio and sends him to the raft.

chameleon: a spy, mercenary, assasin and industrial saboteur hired mostly by osborn, and after his death, moves to aaction's osborn's posthomous plan: create genetic clones of peter's parents, send them to him, and let them degenerate, a thing that moves peter into a mental breakdown, and merged with the symbiote, an agressive vibe that almost controls him. he almost kills chameleon but let him live, although leaving him broken and confused.

5th film

venom: through the 2nd to the 4th movie, a fellow reporter named eddie brock appears and is bitter to peter and mostly a jerk. he is divorced, and his life mostly suck. when he tries to uncover a case of a serial killer and releases his "identity", something that is later revealed as a fraud, he becomes famous. peter reveals the fraud, and eddie is fired and is left without job, and with a ruined status, and when he checks for cancer, he learns he has terminal bone cancer. he goes to a church to commit sucide, and the moment peter is "purged" of his symbiote, it goes to eddie, sensing the bitternes, anger and lust for revenge in eddie, as well as attracting to the cancer cells in eddie's blood feeding off them, and merging with eddie, becoming "spider-man's venom", or just venom. they stalk him, wound MJ and almost kill aunt may. in the end, they fight and eddie is defeated by sonic weapons.

6th film

jackal: prof. miles warren, peter and gwen's teacher, was left devastated after gwen's death, after he apparently fell in love with her, and became disorientated with his life. he accidently killed his assistant, and finally gone mad in the 5th film, where he had a mental breakdown and developed a second persona: the jackal. he cloned some of spider-man's blood he git via his resources, and was amazed to find out the clone wasof peter parker. he immediately began to create more, and created a female version, which he named mattie franklin, a degenerated, mad version, which he simply named "kaine", a more spider-like, bestial creature he named "spidercide", a perfect clone of peter, an older version of peter, which chameleon brainwashed and used in his conspiracy to destroy spider-man, and a perfect version of gwen, which he sent to torment peter. he sent kaine to bring MJ and slowly started to drive peter mad. in the climax, the only clones left, mattie, "ben", spider-cide and the original peter are left in the daily bugle building, where he is going to blow them all, using a bomb that will also destroy all life in new york, so he could replace them with clones and make humanity "perfect". suddenly, a very, VERY familiar, yet distinct face enters the room... doc ock's. he got peter's blood, he manipulated warren and guided him to create the clones. they fight eachother, peter and the clones VS octavius and jackal, and defeat octavius, although most of the clones die (except mattie, which pursues a new identity)...

i wanted to add carnage in a 7th film, but that may be a bit too much...

[I'm Venom]

1st film:
Lizard - Dr. Curt Connors was a surgeon who enlisted in the army and was sent off to war. He performed surgery on GIs, but his right arm was injured and had to be amputated. After his return to life as a technologist, Connors became obsessed with uncovering the secrets of regeneration and studied biology extensively. From his home, he finally develops a serum and successfully regrows the limb of a rabbit. Connors ingests the formula, and his arm grows back, but Connors is transformed into a monster.

2nd film:
Kraven - Kraven is a hunter who seeks to defeat Spider-Man to prove that he's the greatest hunter in the world. Unlike other hunters, he disdains from the use of bow and arrows or guns, preferring to take down animals with his hands. He also uses a serum to give him agility, reflexes, speed, stamina, and strength, but even without the serum, he's a threat to Spider-Man. Kraven's body is also more durable and resistant to forms of injury.

Vulture - Adrian Toomes is an engineer who is the partner of a man named Gregory Bestman; Bestman handles the finances while Toomes handles the inventions. One day after creating a harness, Toomes eagerly rushes into Bestman's office to share the news. However, Bestman isn't there, and Toomes discovers that Bestman has secretly been embezzling funds and Toomes has no recourse. Enraged, Toomes wrecks the office, discovering that the harness grants him strength. He decides to turn to crime and kills Bestman.

3rd film:
Mysterio - Quentin Beck uses gas and scams to rob banks. In his first battle with Spider-Man, he dissolves the hero's webbing with an abrasive. When his suit is destroyed in the fight, Parker comes across the symbiote, a black costume that controls him and moves him into a breakdown. He almost kills Mysterio, but lets him live, although leaving him broken in every sense of the word. Mysterio pulls out a gun and shoots himself dead, as he has nothing left to live for. Parker eventually defeats and rejects the symbiote. Eddie Brock, bonded with the symbiote, confronts MJ.

4th film:
Venom - Through the first to third film, Brock appears and is a jerk and bitter toward Parker. When he tries to uncover the case of Mysterio and reveals his identity, Spider-Man reveals that Brock has been interviewing a compulsive confessor, and Brock is fired from the Daily Bugle and left without a job. He goes to a church, and the symbiote comes to him, bonding with Brock and becoming Venom. In the end, they fight, and Venom is defeated.

[ModestMr.Green]

First film: New York falls under the shadow of the Big Man. Amateur hero Spider-Man investigates, but due to the Big Man's alterego as a well informed member of the press, he constantly evades capture. As Spider-Man gets closer, he squares off against the Big Man's ruthless gang of Enforcers. Fancy Dan gives up the Big Man, and Spider-Man reveals him to the world at large. Jameson fires Foswell, and subsequently calls a manhunt on Spider-Man, declaring the danger posed by people living under a mask.

Second film: In the ongoing manhunt, Jameson hires Mac Gargan to track Peter Parker and his contact with Spider-Man. When investigations into Parker prove futile, Jameson volunteers Gargan as the subject of OsCorp scientist Dr. Farley Stillwell's experiments, one of many investigations in human performance enhancement. Gargan goes insane with power, and turns on Jameson, only for Spider-Man defeat him by a scrape. Meanwhile, Spider-Man struggles to shut down remaining mob activity, while the shady Norman Osborn seeks to further his company's influence by way of filling the rift created by the Big Man's absence, pumping himself up slowly with a performance enhancer of his own design. Seeing Spider-Man as a threat to his goals, Osborn gets desperate and overdoses on the performance enhancing toxins, leading to...

Third film: Green Goblin.

[Venom'sDad]

Quick synopsis:

1st film opens with a frantic phone call to Richard, late after midnight; warning him that Mary is in danger. Richard quickly rush to the American Embassy in Brussels, to save Mary. Meanwhile, at the embassy, Mary senses danger, quickly place a small spherical crystal with a laser imprint encrypted inside it, in a bag of marbles she was planning to send to her 6 year old son, Peter. Suddenly, a sigh of relief… it’s Richard. He ask, "Where's the crystal?" Mary face breaks with a cold, frighten, confused look… she knows Richard is not privy to the spherical crystal, or what’s on it. Just as suddenly, her face is the look of disbelief and painful agony.

Mere moments later, a cleaning lady screams, and Richard is seen panicky running down the hall, crashing into MARY! He says, “Thank God I’ve found you!” She ask, "Do you have the crystal?" Richard is dumbfounded. His breathe is quickly taken away.

The scene switch to a much younger Ben and May Parker, dressed in black, consoles a young six year old; as Ben gives him a small bag of marbles. Peter digs in the bag and pulls out two marbles… places one each, on his parents headstone.

Fast forward, a somber sixteen year old Peter, dressed in black, sitting on the ground, next to a tree, close by his beloved Uncle Ben’s headstone.

Peter begins to narrates his sorrows. Promises to become the man that Uncle Ben raised him to be. Decides from this moment on, to use this gift that was bestowed on him for good. He vows, never again will another human, face the grief cause by another's inaction in preventing a senseless act of bodily harm to another. “With Great Power, comes Great Responsibility.” Peter digs in a bag, and places a clear marble on Ben’s headstone; as a single tear drops from his eye onto the marble. He walks away a new being.

The fun has begun; to be continued…

[Ajendo]

Just give me the damn lizard for the first movie.

[Rodrigo90]

On a budget of $80.000.000... Think of a villain and the effects he would need...what villain would be suitable for that budget?

[david icke]

On a budget of $80.000.000... Think of a villain and the effects he would need...what villain would be suitable for that budget?

The Scorpion, guy in a suit with a CG tail for action, practical tail for non-action scenes. Basically Doc Ock with one arm, so roughly a quarter of the budget for the main sfx. Of course you would get some CG work for the character , but you will get that with any superpowered character if they are up on the rooftops fighting a CG Spidey at some points.
He'd have a good story too if they followed it from the comics.

[Excelsior.]

Spidey's rogue gallery is third only to Flash and Batman. I hope they don't usr GG and Doc Ock ever again.

[The Joker]

Spidey's rogue gallery is third only to Flash and Batman. I hope they don't usr GG and Doc Ock ever again.

That'd be like rebooting Batman and not using The Joker and Two Face.

Not going to happen.

[I'm Venom]

For the first four films, I don't want to see Doc Ock or GG (only Norman Osborn), and Venom shouldn't be in the first trilogy. However, I don't mind seeing Eddie Brock. He should already be established once the symbiote shows up.

I'd love the first villain to be Lizard. Introduce Brock, J. Jonah Jameson, and Robbie Robertson. Peter and Gwen get closer throughout the movie. Mary Jane is there as a flirtation. Dr. Connors becomes Lizard.

Spider-Man has a load of enemies, so I want some others to get a shot. It's too soon for either Doc Ock or GG. I don't know why people keep mentioning them. That goes for Sandman too. Start with someone new. It would be a mistake to re-use villains so soon.

[zeptron]

Spider-Man has a load of enemies, so I want some others to get a shot. It's too soon for either Doc Ock or GG. I don't know why people keep mentioning them. That goes for Sandman too. Start with someone new. It would be a mistake to re-use villains so soon.

Agreed. Yes GG is Spidey's main villain, but considering that they'll be on familiar ground in the reboot (i.e., re-telling his origin, re-introducing his supporting cast, starting him back in high school again), to have the same villain from the first Spider-Man movie would make it seem like a remake instead of a true reboot. If you were remaking a movie from 20 or 30 years ago, using the same villain would be fine (e.g., it was fine to reuse the Joker in the Dark Knight, because it was a sequel and the last time the Joker had appeared in a film was 1989). But when you're rebooting a movie that just came out eight years ago (the first Spidey film was released in 2002), that's too soon.

It's best if it's someone who hasn't been on screen before. If they re-do the Goblin, the whole movie will feel old and stale, regardless of how good the acting is. It will feel like a re-make of the 2002 film. Norman Osborn can appear from behind the scenes to build it up, but not become GG until at least the second film.

Plus it makes little sense to introduce the Goblin as the reboot villain as the reboot is about getting away from the Raimi version as much as possible. We had so much GG in SM1 and SM3. And a little bit in SM2. So I can't understand why people so eager to see him again so soon.

If they're planning a trilogy it would make more sense to have GG appear in a sequel and have the plot build up to him. Batman Begins did it with the Joker, Sherlock Holmes did it with Moriarty, and I think Iron Man's also doing it with Mandarin.

[Venom'sDad]

Well, I don't see Webb starting the 1st film(reboot) with any of Raimi's villains.... especially if the budget is indeed $80mil. Those villains(in particular GG) may come later... like the final film of the trilogy.

[FaT_tONle]

Ima say Kraven/Lizard, or check that rather since he won't be in college yet, go with Electro/Vulture and maybe some side villains like Hammerhead or other powerful mob guys. It can sort of be a prequel trilogy but not really a prequel trilogy... meaning, the core battles and personal conflicts in Raimi's trilogy eventually happen, but the backstory of how Spidey gets there is completely revamped. Just redo Brock/Venom along the way. I don't think Harry should go bad either. He already has too much baggage as the good friend that if he ends up being GG2 and kills Stacy people will just be like WTF??? So basically... don't do GG until the very end of the trilogy and obviously don't kill him off (just redo how Norman becomes the Goblin in a less comical way). Don't do Ock again and don't make Harry become GG2 in this trilogy. Redo Brock/Venom and Gwen Stacy, with both coming into play much earlier in Parker's life as opposed to what was depicted in SM3.

[Maximillian]

Is there even going to be a villain in this film?

[SpeterMan3]

Why wouldn't there be?

[Ajendo]

Is there even going to be a villain in this film?

Nope, we're just gonna get spidey spending the entire film sewing his spidey costume together.

[Rodrigo90]

Lizard and Kraven. With Lizard you could have a more grim story. Showing you a few glimpses of him at first,fighting Spidey through the dark sewers. Then following a string of his murders. Lizard takes a back seat at this point,then going to the city hiring in the worlds greatest hunter,also a television star, Kraven.

Spidey then thwarts Kraven's traps for Connors,resulting in Kraven developing a psychotic obsession to hunt and kill him as well. Not much CGI in need for Kraven,used relatively lightly for Lizard if he doesn't appear too much.

[TheWallCrawler]

I think they need to have a light and cool atmosphere in the first movie, like in Ironman. So the perfect villain would be the scorpion, an unused villain which is not too big for the first movie but still has enough potential to be interesting. I think the problem with Raimi's spidey movie was that he tried a little too dramatic approache. The movie needs to be fun, and I don't know how to exactly say it but it needs to be "cool as steel". A little rocking electric guitar on the soundtrack would be nice.

[Oscorp]

I think they need to have a light and cool atmosphere in the first movie, like in Ironman. So the perfect villain would be the scorpion, an unused villain which is not too big for the first movie but still has enough potential to be interesting. I think the problem with Raimi's spidey movie was that he tried a little too dramatic approache. The movie needs to be fun, and I don't know how to exactly say it but it needs to be "cool as steel". A little rocking electric guitar on the soundtrack would be nice.

Though, Scorpion's origin makes it a little bit complicated for the first movie imo, as you'd have to build up both Spider-Man and J. Jonah Jameson quite alot first.

[The Geek Vault]

I would choose Electro for the first villain. It seems like this new reboot is going for the ultimate line. What I would have happen is you have Harry Osborn as the popular kid in school kind of a bully to Peter Parker. Have Maxwell Dillon be Parkers best friend, who although unintelligent is still a good friend to Peter. Whereas Peter is more... generous to Harry Osborn and other bullies at school Dillon is more bitter towards them. Osborn cheats off of Dillon on a test and when the boys are caught Osborn wins out and Dillon is kicked out of school, he then takes a job at a power plant, eventually he is zapped and becomes electro. Both villain and hero would be young men finding themselves. one chooses the good path the other not so good.

[SpeterMan3]

He gets kicked out for cheating on one test?

[The Joker]

Oh god no, do NOT make Electro or any of the classic villains part of the high school crowd.

[DACMAN]

The only choice that makes sense would be the Lizard.

[Rodrigo90]

Oh god no, do NOT make Electro or any of the classic villains part of the high school crowd.

Are you kidding? I would love to see Vulture as a high-school student!:hehe:

[Ajendo]

Though, Scorpion's origin makes it a little bit complicated for the first movie imo, as you'd have to build up both Spider-Man and J. Jonah Jameson quite alot first.

Not really. Spidey and JJ are well known established characters. If the story is set a good couple of months after Peter becomes spidey, then it's fine. Jameson curiosity as to how Peter gets spidey's pictures really starts to intrigue him and thus he sends Gargan on to peter's trail. Simples.

[Ajendo]

Oh god no, do NOT make Electro or any of the classic villains part of the high school crowd.

I actually liked that MT spider-man show, particularly the electro episode, where he ends up killing one of the college jerks who stitches him up at the frat party.

[Venom'sDad]

:confused: I don't get it, why would comic readers want to see an inexperienced Sixteen year old take on his heavy-hitters(Lizard, Electro, GG, Vulture, etc) straight out of the gate. Simply because we have not seen most of the suggested?

They can use B-List villains while setting up some of the more viable heavy-hitters for future films. Lizard, Scorpion, Venom... especially GG & Hobby, needs time to be properly introduced.

They should tell a story that spans over three films, verses telling three stand alone stories..... and Norman should be the anchor that binds. Hey, that's just me.

[Rodrigo90]

Spider-Man took down villains at the age of 15,he's hardly inexperienced...What should he do? Play with his balls until he turns 30 and is trained by Ra's Al Ghul?

[I'm Venom]

:confused: I don't get it, why would comic readers want to see an inexperienced Sixteen year old take on his heavy-hitters(Lizard, Electro, GG, Vulture, etc) straight out of the gate. Simply because we have not seen most of the suggested?

They can use B-List villains while setting up some of the more viable heavy-hitters for future films. Lizard, Scorpion, Venom... especially GG & Hobby, needs time to be properly introduced.

Lizard would be a good starting villain, if the idea is for a gritty, Batman Begins approach. Set up Eddie Brock as a character and have Brock vs. Parker built up too.

[The Joker]

I hope we don't see any symbiote related characters in this franchise.

[envybianchi]

I would like to see Rhino & Scorpion in the 1st film but the main villain behind the scenes would be none other than Kingpin.

[zeptron]

I would like to see Rhino & Scorpion in the 1st film but the main villain behind the scenes would be none other than Kingpin.

Not gonna happen because Kingpin was in Daredevil and that movie is owned by Fox so they have the rights to him.

[S_H_F_4839]

I am hoping they go another route with these movies. If they are going spidey in high school I would like to see it go a similar route to the ultimates comics, I would like to see them cover the 2nd arc where spiderman is running down know criminal assosciates of the burgular and tracks it back to a mob boss in the upper echelons of the mob but since kingpin is still at fox it should be silvermane they sub in in that role imo

[TruerToTheCore]

Video-Man!

No, Electro and the Lizard methinks.

[Mistah K88]

I think Vulture would be a good first supervillain...his main power is flight and shouldn't be too hard for Spider-Man.

[TruerToTheCore]

I just hope they'll keep it old school.

[GoldGoblin]

Lizard,then we get Dr.Connors,Gwen and Peter bond together while there in science class.

[TheSlag]

I hope we don't see any symbiote related characters in this franchise.

I hope we see one, and only one, but I hope we see a truely dark symbiote infected Peter Parker... with a serious Storyline... NOT revloving ALL about ONE Girl... as opposed to the kid friendly Goth version we got from Raimi.

AND, I hope they Upgrade Eddie Brock's character to give him more depth than basically any characterization I've seen so far.

[I'm Venom]

I hope they Upgrade Eddie Brock's character to give him more depth than basically any characterization I've seen so far.

Start the first film with Brock being busy with the Bugle, some more scenes of Brock later on in the second film, and Brock getting fired in the third film. Ends the way Spider-Man 3 should've ended, with Brock becoming Venom, who Spider-Man would face in the fourth film. It would be a really dark film. Spider-Man has to deal with the consequences of the previous film. It wouldn't be another SM3, because Venom would already have been set up at the end of the third film.

[TheSlag]

/\.. I agree that Venom should of been saved for SM4, and would fit well in that same scenerio for the reboot, but I want a darker character for Brock.

I want a figure that (say) is setting up his own stories, at the expense of his subjects, say... he breaks a major story on human trafficing, but in the process we see behind the scenes that he has sold a young girl into it.. to make his story.

I don't want fluff (like him photoshopping Spidey into a crime scene).. like a top newspaper in NYC would NOT catch that anyway?

I want more reality and grittier storylines, especially involving Brock (but for all the reboot actually). I want MORE depth/darkness to Brock's character to prepare his character for becoming Venom down the line.

[EnSabahNur]

The mob, but have a guy like Shocker hired to take care of the old web crawler.

[GoldGoblin]

The mob would be good cause it would show how the cops couldn't get rid of the organized crime but spidey does and then becomes the cities new hero.

[Anwar]

The entire Venom storyline should be ONE movie and one movie alone. The 90s show pulled it off in 3 episodes that added together were less than 2 hours.

I say save Venom until after Green Goblin kills Gwen, then his depressed/angry state after both are dead leaves him vulnerable to the symbiote for the Venom story. Brock can be introduced earlier in the saga, but left alone until the Venom saga.

Anywho, the mobster pulling the villains' strings doesn't have to be Kingpin. It can be Mr Negative, or Silvermane, or The Big Man. Spidey has no shortage of Mobsters.

What they should do is drop hints of the various other supervillains Spidey has fought. We should see Kingsley fashion commercials, Miles Warren and Curt Connors should be there at the Lab Experiment that gives Peter his powers.

Hell, change the story so somehow Gargan traces Spider-Man to the ESU experiments and then forces Warren to use a Scorpion's DNA on him to make him the Scorpion.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

I somewhat agree with you, Anwar; I'd love to see characters such as Eddie--especially Eddie--introduced in the 1st movie, then given their own development as the new movie series progresses.

[Venom'sDad]

There is no doubt, for Venom to truely become a successful Spidey villain on screen or print, on the level of GG for an example; they wil have to re-develop Eddie Brock's character and background, and give a more intimate look at the Symbiote. Many of us have said that.... I don't see that as an issue. What I do see as an issue is whelther or not those with power & influence on the new Spidey re-boot project, see and understand this. I suspect they don't and won't. I think they will follow the same mantra that is Venom today... and that smells failure to me, whenever they decide to put him on screen again.

This character has to be re-invented to give him reason, real mature motivation, and history... and it starts first with Eddie Brock, and the Symbiote individually; than second, the contrasting "cause & effect" that is Venom. Something they really never address, with any real reason, in the comics, cartoon, and definitely not in his brief moment on film.

IMHO.

[Spider-Vader]

Lizard & Kraven.

I'm hoping they won't go over the origin again (maybe they should steal TIH's idea & have the origin in the opening credits), Spider-Man would be a big myth among New York since he hasn't had a big public fight yet. Kraven hears about these myths, so he decides to pay a visit to the Big Apple to hunt this "Spider-Man". Coincidentally, Peter's biology teacher & mentor, has transformed into the Lizard. Kraven finds out about this & plans on getting two trophies on one trip.

I honestly, think they should use villains that'd tie into each other in this series. I.E. Rhino & Scorpion (guys in Mech suits, hired to kill Spidey), Electro & Vulture (ex-workers of Oscorp who steal technology & use it to take revenge), etc..

[Oscorp]

The entire Venom storyline should be ONE movie and one movie alone. The 90s show pulled it off in 3 episodes that added together were less than 2 hours.

I say save Venom until after Green Goblin kills Gwen, then his depressed/angry state after both are dead leaves him vulnerable to the symbiote for the Venom story. Brock can be introduced earlier in the saga, but left alone until the Venom saga.

Anywho, the mobster pulling the villains' strings doesn't have to be Kingpin. It can be Mr Negative, or Silvermane, or The Big Man. Spidey has no shortage of Mobsters.

What they should do is drop hints of the various other supervillains Spidey has fought. We should see Kingsley fashion commercials, Miles Warren and Curt Connors should be there at the Lab Experiment that gives Peter his powers.

Hell, change the story so somehow Gargan traces Spider-Man to the ESU experiments and then forces Warren to use a Scorpion's DNA on him to make him the Scorpion.

Interesting, very good points! :up:

[I'm Venom]

Here's my concept:

Amazing Spider-Man
Include Dr. Connors and the Daily Bugle, and Connors transforms into Lizard.

Amazing Spider-Man 2
Peter starts college, where he meets Harry Osborn and Mary Jane Watson. J. Jonah Jameson is ripping Spider-Man apart in editorials and creates Scorpion to destroy him. Peter starts dating MJ. Kraven comes to America to take Spider-Man down. Rhino is featured in an encounter.

Amazing Spider-Man 3
John Jameson returns from the moon, and the symbiote ends up with Peter and takes over. Ends the way Spider-Man 3 should've ended, with Eddie Brock becoming Venom.

Amazing Spider-Man 4
I'd have Venom attack Connors, since he knows who Spider-Man cares about. Spider-Man takes on Venom in one last brawl to end the series.

[zeptron]

Here's my concept:

Amazing Spider-Man
Include Dr. Connors and the Daily Bugle, and Connors transforms into Lizard.

Amazing Spider-Man 2
Peter starts college, where he meets Harry Osborn and Mary Jane Watson. J. Jonah Jameson is ripping Spider-Man apart in editorials and creates Scorpion to destroy him. Peter starts dating MJ. Kraven comes to America to take Spider-Man down. Rhino is featured in an encounter.

Amazing Spider-Man 3
John Jameson returns from the moon, and the symbiote ends up with Peter and takes over. Ends the way Spider-Man 3 should've ended, with Eddie Brock becoming Venom.

Amazing Spider-Man 4
I'd have Venom attack Connors, since he knows who Spider-Man cares about. Spider-Man takes on Venom in one last brawl to end the series.

My only beef with this is that you didn't mention Spidey's two top villains.

[I'm Venom]

My only beef with this is that you didn't mention Spidey's two top villains.

I wouldn't mind Green Goblin in the third, but would start dropping hints by introducing Norman in the second.

[CaptainStacy]

I think Chameleon would be a great villain (ala ASM #1)...maybe have Rhino or some other villain as his hired muscle...