Did Spider-Man 4 Die Because Raimi Wanted It To Be Like Avatar?

[omid17]

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html

In truth, there are probably dozens of reasons why Spider-Man 4 failed-- Sam Raimi (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html#)and Sony never seemed to be seeing eye-to-eye on the whole thing, and the venture was guaranteed to be hugely expensive. But Vulture (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/01/avatar_killed_spiderman_4_sam.html) has uncovered what's definitely a new theory about why the whole thing fell apart-- Avatar (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html#). According to their sources, Raimi apparently was so dazzled by the effects in Avatar that he demanded an even bigger CGi budget from Sony. An unnamed insider explained, "The tipping point was that Sam wanted to do certain things that would push the envelope in terms of [special effects] ‘toys’ and other visual stimulation, and Sony didn’t feel that was essential to the franchise.”

They also got their hands on the basic outline of the plot Raimi was pushing, which is pretty much what we knew-- a new love interest whose father turns out to be The Vulture-- but includes a downer ending that was understandably not that exciting to the studio. Here's the gist below:
Peter Parker (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html#) gets over MJ, finds a new girl, falls in love. But: Peter also discovers her father is actually the Vulture, a naughty green guy with wings to be played by John Malkovich. Peter is torn between the love of his new lady and taking down the Vulture. Being a Spandex tight-ass, he decides to take down the Vulture, and kills him. This patricide goes down poorly with Peter’s new fiancée, and she rejects him. Despondent, Peter decides to abandon his superpowers, and Movie (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html#) No. 4 ends with Peter Parker throwing away his Spider-Man mask, and audiences wondering if they are watching Superman II.There's a whole lot of other tidbits about the other things that went wrong, including concern over action figures for a sexagenarian villain played by John Malkovich (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html#) and a last-minute plan to bring in yet another screenwriter. It all offers further proof that there were so many things wrong with the project that nothing really could have made Spider-Man 4 a good movie, and also one tantalizing headline: Avatar Killed Spider-Man 4. How much do you want to bet that's the blame that gets spread the fastest?

[Venom 1988]

Oh jeez, that did not sound good at all. Why would Raimi retread familiar ground with the Spidey No More stuff?

[Mister J]

Peter Parker (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html#) gets over MJ, finds a new girl, falls in love. But: Peter also discovers her father is actually the Vulture, a naughty green guy with wings to be played by John Malkovich. Peter is torn between the love of his new lady and taking down the Vulture. Being a Spandex tight-ass, he decides to take down the Vulture, and kills him. This patricide goes down poorly with Peter’s new fiancée, and she rejects him. Despondent, Peter decides to abandon his superpowers, and Movie (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Did-Spider-Man-4-Die-Because-Raimi-Wanted-It-To-Be-Like-Avatar-16585.html#) No. 4 ends with Peter Parker throwing away his Spider-Man mask, and audiences wondering if they are watching Superman II.http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3080/donotwantp.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/donotwantp.jpg/)

Cripes, that sounds awful. It's still hard to pinpoint what's legit and what's a load of mularkey, but there was an article in the LA Times that I posted the other day that cited Peter was going to fall in love with another girl. Sounded like bunk, but now there's this.

[VenomVsSpidey]

I was going to write the film's score.

see how much merit that has?

[Venom 1988]

Yeah but cinemablend has more merit that you do though

[omid17]

SM4 was a ****ing mess

[webhead731]

"and kills him"

Really? Spider-Man kills someone. I doubt that.

Yeah, and I'm actually Obama. OMG ITZ ON TEH INTRNTZ ITZ TRU!

"naughty green guy"

Sounds like a porno. :rolleyes:

[Spider-ManHero12]

Something tells me this is partly false.

[TheComicbookKid]

I don't believe that ending. Raimi knew he was done, I doubt he would leave it like that. Plus, where's the baby?


The stuff about the budget does match up to the other details about wanting more than 230 million.

[webhead731]

Or teh vultrss?!

[Venom 1988]

Vultress was added by the studio. The article states this was what Raimi wanted.

[Dr.Dude]

The trouble here is a lot of these rumors about the potential SM4 plot don't align with each other; this one states that Peter has a new love interest and even gets engaged to her, while another claims that Peter has a kid with MJ and is changing diapers when not swinging around on webs.

You can definitely tell the production was troubled, though--if the rumor about Raimi walking is true, I can completely understand why. I just wonder what the real story would have been.

[webhead731]

Either way, I lose alot of respect for internet fanboys these days for judging a totally unfinished and unwanted script (that we don't even know is real) and saying the movie will suck.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Either way, I lose alot of respect for internet fanboys these days for judging a totally unfinished and unwanted script (that we don't even know is real) and saying the movie will suck. Agreed, and the fact that some think they themselves can direct a better Spider-Man. It's not that simple.

[LightningFlash]

Wow, I knew Sam Raimi sucked...but wow.

And love how Raimi's fanboys claim "no merit" to this report :whatever:

Although...I still want Vulture in the first installment of this reboot. But do Vulture right of course. And have Ben Kingsley!!!!

I, for one, think this to be true. I mean, c'mon, Sam Raimi did partially write the final script for Spider-Man 3, and all of those stories sucked terribly from Sandman to Harry to even both Stacys. So, yah...it sounds like something Raimi would think of.

And I say good job for Sony. Just because it's a comic-book adaptation, does not mean it needs to have a huge CGI budget. Is Raimi wanting it to look like a Transformers flick?

[webhead731]

You're a bit gullible. You'll believe anything negative.

[The Chris]

I wonder if we'll ever get the real truth. This article says sam wanted one thing, but this doesn't go at all with what other articles say Sam wanted. Ugh.

[webhead731]

I believe Sam just wanted to give us another good Spider-Man movie with everything in his decision.

[The Chris]

I believe Sam just wanted to give us another good Spider-Man movie with everything in his decision.

Agreed.

[Ace of Knaves]

Well this article matches up with articles that were released the other week about the delays.

Don't deny it, I remember reading basically the exact same thing a few weeks ago and saying the exact same thing... scrap SM4.

Pete having a new love interest and killing her dad in a fight. The love interest wants revenge on Spidey so takes up the mantle of the Vultress?

Yep, read this weeks ago. And it sounds absolutely terrible.

Raimi probably wanted the daughter of Vulture as Black Cat. The studio then come in and said "Change her to Vultress".

So whatever happened, SM4 was doomed to be crap.

[Octoberist]

Wow, I knew Sam Raimi sucked...but wow.

And love how Raimi's fanboys claim "no merit" to this report :whatever:

Although...I still want Vulture in the first installment of this reboot. But do Vulture right of course. And have Ben Kingsley!!!!

I, for one, think this to be true. I mean, c'mon, Sam Raimi did partially write the final script for Spider-Man 3, and all of those stories sucked terribly from Sandman to Harry to even both Stacys. So, yah...it sounds like something Raimi would think of.

And I say good job for Sony. Just because it's a comic-book adaptation, does not mean it needs to have a huge CGI budget. Is Raimi wanting it to look like a Transformers flick?

how fanboyish (looks at browser) oh yeah, i forgot where i was.

Listen, Spider-Man 3 sucked. Spidey 4..looks like it's a jumbled mess. But my love for Raimi will never go away.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Originally Posted by webhead731 http://www.superherohype.com/drakon/skins/shhclassic/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=17951748#post17951748)
I believe Sam just wanted to give us another good Spider-Man movie with everything in his decision.
Agreed. The only people to deny this are the ones who support the reboot.

[Ace of Knaves]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=331480

Here you go, look at the start date of the thread.

That synopsis is EXACTLY the same as the synopsis here pretty much.

[SpeterMan3]

You're a bit gullible. You'll believe anything negative.
Well, he is Lightning. He's negatively charged.

[webhead731]

Well, he is Lightning. He's negatively charged.

:pal:

If I had sig room, that'd be there.

[Project862006]

1 thing i think we can all agree on and that is as the SM films wen on they got a bit repetitive for their own good.

[SpeterMan3]

:pal:

If I had sig room, that'd be there.
You can make room. :o






:hehe:

[LightningFlash]

Sweet, do it.

I don't mind getting famous for being hated on.

I'd appreciate it actually.

So, you have my blessing child.

[Dark Helmet]

It seems that Spider-Man 4 died due to the fact that the movie would not be able to make its release date of 2012 & now that Disney owns Marvel they are afraid that if they waited to long then Disney's lawyers would find some kind of loop hole to get the rights of Spider-Man back

http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2010/01/15/why-for-did-sony-pictures-decide-not-to-go-forward-with-production-of-spider-man-4.aspx

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ My god. That's the reason? F***** Sony. :doh:

[SpeterMan3]

Oh my wheatcakes, I'm getting a headache.

[Ace of Knaves]

SM4 died because it was gonna be crap.

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Pfft...only if Sony got invovled. :whatever:

[Ace of Knaves]

Hey if you think that synopsis sounds cool, whatever.

[GoldGoblin]

Sounds like Raimi became a spidey villain.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Hey if you think that synopsis sounds cool, whatever. How do you know that that's real? I mean, if I remember correctly, on Monday night you said you don't know everything, yet here, you act like you do.

[Mister J]

That last article doesn't make any sense. It cites 'wanting to maintain forward momentum'. Scrapping the current franchise, needing to find a new director and full cast doesn't exactly reek of forward momentum, especially when the release date was pushed back a year.

If anything, the Mouse's lawyers have more points to probe for weakness in the licensing agreement because there isn't jack squat solid about the situation right now ...except they have a script ...which they had before, even though it wasn't mutually agreeable to all parties involved. Eh.

[Ace of Knaves]

How do you know that that's real? I mean, if I remember correctly, on Monday night you said you don't know everything, yet here, you act like you do.

Because that synopsis matches up with other synopsis' released. THAT is what was planned for SM4.

I even posted the link to the thread when it was first revealed back in November. Go back a page, click on the link, read the synopsis, it is basically EXACTLY the same as the one posted in this article. Then look in the thread and all the negative responses.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Because that synopsis matches up with other synopsis' released. THAT is what was planned for SM4.

I even posted the link to the thread when it was first revealed back in November. Go back a page, click on the link, read the synopsis, it is basically EXACTLY the same as the one posted in this article. Then look in the thread and all the negative responses. You're too sure of things. Seriously. What about the baby plot?

[LightningFlash]

The baby plot was bogus.

Everyone thought Peter and MJ would be welcoming a baby just because there was a casting call for it.

As far as we know, the baby could've been Peter's and Vulturess's baby.

[Ace of Knaves]

Well that was included in other articles. And the baby plot would of sucked balls too.

Look, it can't be a coincidence that these synopsis' match up. It was clearly a possibility of happening. And I'm sorry, but like I said in that thread back in November, it would of been crap.

Like I said before, I will not accept mediocrity for one of my favourite characters JUST because it is one of my favourite characters.

When Deadpool comes out if it turns out crap I will not go "Ohh that's awesome!" JUST because it's Deadpool. Why? Because that will be doing a massive disservice to the actual character. By accepting mediocrity you are giving the creators no real motive to improve.

I like you man but seriously, it seems that everything with Spider-Mans name on it, whether it is good or crap, you think it's awesome. And I'm not the only one to notice this so it is true. By doing that you are infact doing a massive disservice to the Spider-Man character.

**** I bet you liked the Clone Saga or BND JUST because they had Spider-Mans name on it.

[Venom 1988]

Jesus Christ some of you fanboys are nuts. Do I believe Raimi wanted to make a good Spider-Man 4 movie? Yes I believe that was his intentions, but based on some of the story info that does indeed match up with other articles , Raimi had bad ideas. And Sony had bad ideas on what to force into the script. SM4 was a mess because of Sony and Raimi. What I can't stand is that some Raimi fans denying that he could do know wrong and it was all Sony's fault. I love Raimi, but he was just simply loosing his creative steam on Spidey.

[Mastodon123]

It sounds like Raimi was making his Batman & Robin.

[omid17]

Jesus Christ some of you fanboys are nuts. Do I believe Raimi wanted to make a good Spider-Man 4 movie? Yes I believe that was his intentions, but based on some of the story info that does indeed match up with other articles , Raimi had bad ideas. And Sony had bad ideas on what to force into the script. SM4 was a mess because of Sony and Raimi. What I can't stand is that some Raimi fans denying that he could do know wrong and it was all Sony's fault. I love Raimi, but he was just simply loosing his creative steam on Spidey.:up:

[DACrowe]

That story is a load of bull ****. The source is somebody named "Vulture?" Nice.

The story according to three different sources featured Vultress or Black Cat (depending who you ask) as the daughter of Vulture, the owner of the Daily Bugle and Peter and MJ with a baby. That, that is terrible enough of a story. But whoever spewed that crap about Spidey killing, getting engaged to Felicia and quitting Spidey (again) obviously just recycled plotlines from SM1 and SM2. :rolleyes:


As for Avatar that is also ridiculous. Raimi wanted to push the envelope in every film. Compare the CGI of Spidey swinging in the first to SM2. Better yet compare CGI GG1 to Sandman coming to life. SM3 cost over $250 million and Sony purportedly wants 3D.


Look I think the basic plot of SM4 sucked. But fans need to quit believing every BS rumor on the Internet. Avatar did not intimidate Raimi. The Dark Knight did not scare him away either (though I imagine he saw how good it was and was frustrated that his SM4 was turning out worse than SM3). Seriously.

[Ace of Knaves]

No actually the part about Spidey killing Felicia's father and quitting Spidey was reported by other articles.

Including one back in November.

[SpeterMan3]

Is it just me, or are we more concerned about the movie that will never be than the one at hand? It's natural and I wouldn't expect anything else, but I find it interesting.

[omid17]

No actually the part about Spidey killing Felicia's father and quitting Spidey was reported by other articles.

Including one back in November.
the first one we got was the "Viper storyline" which is basically the same ****

from November 10 or 11
Apparently she is the daughter of the new editor of The Daily Bugle, a man who is also referred to as ‘a viper' (more on this in a second). She falls in love with Peter Parker, and uncovers his true identity. Her father then dies, and Hardy becomes a threat to Peter Parker (presumably as The Black Cat).

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea exactly. It just CANNOT be coincidence that they are basically exactly the same.

I'm sure Raimi did intend to make a great Spidey film. But that doesn't mean it would be great. The guy isn't literally perfect. No one is. And anyone who pretends so is a ****ing idiot. I mean, even the greats like Hitchcock and Coppola had their hiccups.

Sure the studio interferes aswell, but to put ALL the blame on the studio is just illogical.

[spider-neil]

mister j is correct the article makes no sense, they talk about sony being worried that disney will exploit the fact there is no forward momentum so to combat this they put the movie back a year AND get rid of the current cast ensuring an entirely new cast has found. that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[TheComicbookKid]

I said in the other thread, we might be getting information from seperate drafts and revisions of the script.

[Spider-Fan]

This story mentions no kid or anything. The budget points might be true, but I think there is miscommunication on the story points. This doesn't match up with other sources that have been confirmed.

[lordofthenerds]

Christ, this thing looks like it should've been posted as a bad joke not as the leaked plot for the "redemption of SM3". Good thing Sony went with a reboot.

[lordofthenerds]

This story mentions no kid or anything. The budget points might be true, but I think there is miscommunication on the story points. This doesn't match up with other sources that have been confirmed.
You mean the baby storyline? If so, my previous post still stays the same.

[LegendaryCaleb]

Raimis stories are always the same...Love twist...People close to Parker seeking revenge against Spidey...and of course him questioning himself as Spider-Man several times...ehh so glad it never happened

[Mace Dolex]

And Sony didn't feel that an old man action figure of the Vulture would sell a lot? maybe this is why we never got those Aunt May and Uncle Ben action figures, damn.

[JustABill]

-sigh- People clearly get an article that Raimi was messing up Spider-Man 4 more than Sony's decision for Vulturess ever could and they still praise him like he's the Jesus Christ of Spider-Man movies. :doh:

[I_am_iron_man]

I seriously think that these synopsis it's true.

Peter leaves MJ = Dunst have some personal problems, maybe Raimi has reduce her role.

Peter's new fiancé = It seems it's confirmed that Hathaway was casting for this role, maybe someone think - at one point - it will be interesting to see this new fiancé became a villain.

Peter leaves powers, no more Spider-Man = It seems clear from the beginning that Raimi & Co. leaves franchise after 4th movie. And it's confirmed by Sony that - if Raimi stay on board - the 4th movie it'll be the last and 5th it's yet a reboot. So it makes sense and end like that, it's a clear "end of Raimi's franchise".

Mmm, reboot here we come :woot:

[Gotham22]

And Sony's safest route was to reboot the franchise. How stupid are they just like any other studio/production company with all there rebooted franchises.

[Project862006]

watch this get debunked soon lol

remember Alexander Skargard was a shoe in for thor what happened?

and most recently every site like First showing/slash film/AICN/Hit Flix/Latino Review/ were all saying JEH was gonna be sinestro.Then what happens now Mark strong is getting the role.

what i have known about the tnernet regarding news is wait till you have a good source like the director lol

[Doctor Jones]

But if the fourth film was the last why leave it on an ending like that? That doesn't sound like Spider-Man at all. And not something to end a ten year franchise.

[JustABill]

It won't get debunked. THIS has been said numerous times now. Face it you guys hero Raimi was going to give you a big pile of steaming ****. It's okay, even good directors get one every now and then.

[Spider-ManHero12]

This story mentions no kid or anything. The budget points might be true, but I think there is miscommunication on the story points. This doesn't match up with other sources that have been confirmed. Exactly, which is why I think this is partly false.

[Ace of Knaves]

lol yea.

And the things is, it DOES sound like a Raimi ending. Pete quitting as Spidey for good to finish the franchise? C'mon, that reeks of Raimi.

And the fact is it has been reported by different sites at different times. It is basically EXACTLY the same as the one released in November when the delays and problems were first revealed.

[Project862006]

wait was'nt the writers doing 4 /5/6 as well

[Ace of Knaves]

not saying he did'nt but you guys act like raimi is satan and have been holding in your hate for 8 years and act like sm1 and 2 are not good films that is my only problem with some of you.

What? I've stated on MULTIPLE occasions that I love the first 2. Hell I put SM2 in my top 5 comic book films of all time.

But this blind Raimi love, grasping at straws to excuse this absolutely shoddy plot outline. It's really rather pathetic, if I'm honest.

Raimi is not PERFECT. No one is. Yea sure he wanted to make a great Spidey film. That doesn't actually mean it would be great. Even the masters like Hitchcock and Coppola had stinkers.

[Ace of Knaves]

wait was'nt the writers doing 4 /5/6 as well

I dunno bout 5 and 6. Never heard anything about them.

[TheScarecrow]

Honestly, we're really running out of a lot of avenues for explaining the SM4 script. No matter which is true, it's clear that they'd written themselves into a hole and further rewrites were only digging them down deeper.

I really don't understand it - it's not like there's a lack of material for a dramatic movie and this should have been realised when they kept talking about not being completely decided on the villains when the script had been written. I'd taken it as them trying to be coy - but it appears it was true and when you have a script where villains can be taken out and swapped it means one of two things - or possibly both:

1. The script is crap and lacks cohesion.
2. The script isn't comic accurate.

I'll miss the charm of Raimi's movies - but despite the talent involved, this would have been a disaster.


I dunno bout 5 and 6. Never heard anything about them.

James Vanderbilt signed on to write Spider-man 4, 5 and 6 - which we now know to be Spider-man 1, 2 and 3. A telling sign even then, since Raimi disliked his work on SM4.

[TheScarecrow]

Honestly, we're really running out of a lot of avenues for explaining the SM4 script. No matter which is true, it's clear that they'd written themselves into a hole and further rewrites were only digging them down deeper.

I really don't understand it - it's not like there's a lack of material for a dramatic movie and this should have been realised when they kept talking about not being completely decided on the villains when the script had been written. I'd taken it as them trying to be coy - but it appears it was true and when you have a script where villains can be taken out and swapped it means one of two things - or possibly both:

1. The script is crap and lacks cohesion.
2. The script isn't comic accurate.

I'll miss the charm of Raimi's movies - but despite the talent involved, this would have been a disaster.


I dunno bout 5 and 6. Never heard anything about them.

James Vanderbilt signed on to write Spider-man 4, 5 and 6 - which we now know to be Spider-man 1, 2 and 3. A telling sign even then, since Raimi disliked his work on SM4.

[Spider-Fan]

lol yea.

And the things is, it DOES sound like a Raimi ending. Pete quitting as Spidey for good to finish the franchise? C'mon, that reeks of Raimi.

And the fact is it has been reported by different sites at different times. It is basically EXACTLY the same as the one released in November when the delays and problems were first revealed.

Some parts of it are probably true, but I don't think the whole story is. Like I said, a lot was reported recently summarizing SM4 by other sites, and this summary is not in line with it in some ways. Like the kid. Where is the kid in this film? This leads me to believe it's false.

It won't get debunked. THIS has been said numerous times now. Face it you guys hero Raimi was going to give you a big pile of steaming ****. It's okay, even good directors get one every now and then.

See above portion of post.

This film was going to end up a disaster, but I still feel it is because Raimi and Sony couldn't agree. The Vulturess idea was a Sony, so even if that plot was 100% true, it's not a Raimi only plot, cause it includes at least 1 Sony idea.

But, I'm more inclined to believe that this is some other sites idea of what the film was based on what they've read over the web. Not actual hard proof.

[Deaths Head II]

I kind of suspected 4 wasn't going to turn out that great, even if I am upset over the reboot. I would have liked to see Raimi's final film, but I guess it doesn't matter now. There is no way it would have been made how Raimi would have wanted, and even then I don't think Raimi's vision for it would yield an amazing film.

[chaseter]

So where is the baby in this script? Do you see how all of these reports conflict?

[JustABill]

Maybe the baby was just a kid Spider-Man saved for christ sakes. Just cause it had red hair didn't mean it HAD to be Mary Jane and Peter's kids.

[chaseter]

Nope, other reports said that Peter and MJ have a kid. Who is right? Why don't we believe them all!

I just saw this today on a blog:

"Raimi wanted Peter to become Man-Spider and go The Fly route because Raimi loved that movie. Also, Jeff Goldblum was going to be in this movie with Sam Neil and when the Lizard escapes, they get his attention with flares and Jeff gets hurt when running towards a bathroom. Also, a lawyer dies."

[chaseter]

Nope, other reports said that Peter and MJ have a kid. Who is right? Why don't we believe them all!

I just saw this today on a blog:

"Raimi wanted Peter to become Man-Spider and go The Fly route because Raimi loved that movie. Also, Jeff Goldblum was going to be in this movie with Sam Neil and when the Lizard escapes, they get his attention with flares and Jeff gets hurt when running towards a bathroom. Also, a lawyer dies."

[Spider-Fan]

You can't pick and choose what is real and not real to you in order to justify Raimi hate. You keep saying we are, but you guys are to.

[Carlo Comicus]

I don't believe that ending. Raimi knew he was done, I doubt he would leave it like that. Plus, where's the baby?


The stuff about the budget does match up to the other details about wanting more than 230 million.

I think every site in the last days say no truth.

Too much different "sources".

[spider-neil]

there is a distinct lack of respect for sam because he could EASILY have collected a fat pay check for SM4 and dialled in the direction but he is a fan like we are a fans and didn't want to rush the movie. he has my respect.

ratner (for example) MUST have known he couldn't have done xmen 3 justice with the time scale he had (a little over a year) but took the money and ran.

[bryanss3]

there is a distinct lack of respect for sam because he could EASILY have collected a fat pay check for SM4 and dialled in the direction but he is a fan like we are a fans and didn't want to rush the movie. he has my respect.

ratner (for example) MUST have known he couldn't have done xmen 3 justice with the time scale he had (a little over a year) but took the money and ran. I think Thats Just Ratner in general, but yeah lets face it, general consensus is Spider-Man 3 is pretty bad, but look how much it made(over 800 million). Sony would rather make a date regardless of quality still knowing that even if it turns out bad they'll make at least 600 million to reboot instead, even though they claim the plan was to reboot after Spider-Man 4 anyways. Maybe they should hire better writers? thats just a guess. Or actually give someone creative control when they say they do.

[spider-neil]

[/B] I think Thats Just Ratner in general, but yeah lets face it, general consensus is Spider-Man 3 is pretty bad, but look how much it made(over 800 million). Sony would rather make a date regardless of quality still knowing that even if it turns out bad they'll make at least 600 million to reboot instead, even though they claim the plan was to reboot after Spider-Man 4 anyways. Maybe they should hire better writers? thats just a guess. Or actually give someone creative control when they say they do.

it was an easy choice for sony. if sam couldn't do it they would need to hire a new director with a new director tobey and dunst may not return and even if they did their new contracts would be HUGE. the second sam said he couldn't/wouldn't make may 2011 that was that.

[Oscorp]

Jesus Christ some of you fanboys are nuts. Do I believe Raimi wanted to make a good Spider-Man 4 movie? Yes I believe that was his intentions, but based on some of the story info that does indeed match up with other articles , Raimi had bad ideas. And Sony had bad ideas on what to force into the script. SM4 was a mess because of Sony and Raimi. What I can't stand is that some Raimi fans denying that he could do know wrong and it was all Sony's fault. I love Raimi, but he was just simply loosing his creative steam on Spidey.

Best post at the forum yet, imo! :up:

It's funny how some nuts immediatly yell "this is bogus!" when it's something bad about Raimi, but when there's something bad about Sony, they instantly post "Sony are stupid, I knew this!!" etc. Haha some people are really idiots over here!

[Spider-Fan]

Best post at the forum yet, imo! :up:

It's funny how some nuts immediatly yell "this is bogus!" when it's something bad about Raimi, but when there's something bad about Sony, they instantly post "Sony are stupid, I knew this!!" etc. Haha some people are really idiots over here!

I've been the first person to not believe false info either way :huh:

But, the thing about this is, you guys are doing it too. We get a report like this that isn't consistent with the latest reports on what was in the script, and you scream it must be true.

Everyone is justifying their own opinions with all the news that is coming out and believing what they want to believe. EVERYONE is. Saying you're not doing it too makes you one of the "idiots" as you called them. I'm not calling you an idiot, but I am saying you shouldn't call other people idiots for something everyone is doing.

[omid17]

here's another source

Vulture Exclusive: What Really Killed Spider-Man 4? Avatar!
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/01/avatar_killed_spiderman_4_sam.html

[Spider-Vader]

I like Rami & I believe he wanted to do the best movie possible. But his ideas SUCK!!! Again, I'm glad he's leaving. Maybe we can get a Spider-Man that actually feels like Spider-Man. The only one of the movies that actually felt like the Spidey I know was 'Spider-Man 2', which is coincidentally the best movie of them all.

[Carlo Comicus]

I seriously think that these synopsis it's true.



:doh:

[Kanon]

Doesn't make sense. No baby, and every time we heard about Black Cat/Vuturess, it was "love triangle"... How come there is a triangle if MJ is gone?

And the downer ending? If Raimi made a send off movie, we know without a doubt that it woud end with Spidey swinging, and the american flag in the background :p

[Eggyman]

"naughty green guy"

Sounds like a porno. :rolleyes:

What kinda porn do you watch?! :huh:

[Reikowolf]

hmmm. Interesting article. I see there is no mention of a confirmation or deny of this from Raimi.

If this is true, then it would indicate that Raimi had lost a lot of steam, which would be understandable. Even Peter Jackson needed a break after LOTR. There's just a few things that bother me about this.

1. Asking for a high budget has never been Raimi's MO until now apparently. We're talking about a director who has made one of the most iconic horror movies of all time for under $200,000. He made Darkman on a relatively low budget, if there's one thing Raimi is known for, is his ability to do a lot with a little. One of the biggest issues during production of Spider-Man was that he was filming a movie with a budget he had never had before and as such had to learn to do a lot with a lot.

2. Sony had a terrible 2009. The PS3 had resulted in over 1billion in losses of Sony revenue and the Spider-Man franchise had been the last really successful quarter they had in 2007. It makes sense that they would want to make the next Spider-Man movie with a lower budget, which would mean added pressure to the production crew to lower costs/ideas.

3. Avatar's budget was monumental due to the fact that a lot of the capture technology was invented specifically for the film. James Cameron has stated that the budget for the planned sequel would be significantly lower.

The article does make an interesting argument, but I cannot help but feel that it seems like Sony did not have the $$ to back Raimi's vision of SM4 and may have purposely put pressure on him until he backed out in order for them to reboot the franchise with a significantly lower budget.

This makes sense especially if Raimi had been given a play or pay contract which means that if the studio pulls the plug, they would have to pay him but if he pulls out, they would not.

I sure hope Sony isn't trying to save face, because that means that they really don't care about the franchise.

I hope webb does a great job

[RustyCage]

If that's true, Avatar didn't kill Spidey 4. Sony's cheapness and lack of good taste did.

[Reikowolf]

If that's true, Avatar didn't kill Spidey 4. Sony's cheapness and lack of good taste did.

:up:

still, I hope Webb can pull it off. Unfortunately, it does mean Sony won't learn their lesson; but I want the Spider-Man franchise to keep being the standard.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Originally Posted by I_am_iron_man http://www.superherohype.com/drakon/skins/shhclassic/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=17953065#post17953065)
I seriously think that these synopsis it's true. And why do you tink this? There's no proof that this is in fact true.

[Mrpaul]

Fake

[chaseter]

here's another source

Vulture Exclusive: What Really Killed Spider-Man 4? Avatar!
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/01/avatar_killed_spiderman_4_sam.html

That was posted in another thread and I posted this:

That article contradicts itself a few times. It says that Sony was pushing for a 2011 release and couldn't budge any due to stock holders but were okay to do a reboot in 2012. That makes no sense. Their 2011 earnings will now be ruined so that isn't a reason.

It also said that Raimi wanted to help out toy sales but wanting to end the character ala Superman would have hurt toy sales. I think the man is smart enough to realize that. Nobody wants a Peter Parker action figure.

There are also reports that MJ and Peter had a baby as per Raimi so all of these rumors going around slandering Raimi while they all have different stories is silly. Dunst was also in this movie so the lack of MJ in that report is also a contradiction.

I do believe that Raimi wanted the vfx to be a lot better. I can believe that. That would make the movie better.

[Frodo]

I doubt Avatar is what killed Spiderman 4. The fact is, there were various issues that couldn't be resolved . You had ageing expensive leads, A poor script , weak villans which Raimi and the studio couldn't agree on, a supposed better and cheaper reboot script , and The need to do the film before the rights go to marvel.

On balance, it's easy to see why Sony felt it was time to "move on" as it were. That's show biz for you.

[Cagefighterkip]

as awful as that sounds, out of pure curiosity id love 2 read the script for s-4.
hopefully it comes online soon...