WB Superman Reboot 3.0: Christopher Nolan Edition

[Willi Berg]

Yeah, I remember that one.

He must have been high (or low) on pills or heroin or something. Hope Joaquin is doing okay.

That happened when he was on a break from making movies and filming that mockumentary with Casey Affleck about becoming a rap star.

He has been in public lately clean shaven and acting normal and said that he planned on returning to movies soon.

[protocida]

:yay:

[batman44]

Chris Nolan is going to be avoiding an origin story because it has been done too many times with Superman. He intends to focus on a story where Superman is already Superman, with only snippets of Superman's past (think Batman 1989).

And honestly, I am glad he is taking that route. As much as I find Superman Returns to be watchable, it disappointed me that so much time was spent on flash backs and exposition about the farm and Krypton. Especially for a film that is a semi-sequel to Superman II.

So here is hoping that Nolan keeps with this goal. Also, to whoever said they want to see Superman team up with Batman...I still think that is a bad idea. Comic nerds would love it, but it is hard to imagine Nolan's Batman existing in a world with Superman. Would Nolan's Gotham City be so depressing and dark if there were a Superman? It doesn't mesh well.

The only shot I could see of it working is if they use the Public Enemies story line. Even then...I am not sure the general public would take well to that plot.

Really? There was one flashback and I don't remember any exposition about his farm life or Krypton besides the "It was a grave yard and I'm all that's left". The whole scene with his mom lasted what, 5 minutes.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Hell. NO.
:woot:

[Willi Berg]

Yeah and Lois needs to literally eat dirt.

[Webhead2006]

i agree if we are getting to see superman's first appearance to the world/city i would love for the world to be realistic at film and have those grounded phsyics stuff with regular humans. And for folks to be a bit scared/leery of this superman being. But then over the course of the film they see he is there as a force for good and then he becomes the icon he is and beloved by most.

[Eros]

i agree if we are getting to see superman's first appearance to the world/city i would love for the world to be realistic at film and have those grounded phsyics stuff with regular humans. And for folks to be a bit scared/leery of this superman being. But then over the course of the film they see he is there as a force for good and then he becomes the icon he is and beloved by most.

stop useing the world realism, its makes no sense when the man is a supower powered alien from another world. Thats like asking George lucas to make the next star wars movie more grounded in reality.

[Webhead2006]

eros what i meant with realism is to have a world that looks like a ready ordinary place like any real city out there and have folks react realistically if a super powered alien came out to the public. folks would probably be scared and worried he was going to take over the world. Now i dont want film to be an ultra realistic thing like nolan did with batman. i want to see scifi/fantasy stuff there and for them to go all out with that stuff.

[Willi Berg]

Right, if you put Superman in a more realistic setting then it provides a contrast to him and what he can do. He'll stand out more. Any sci-fi/fantasy elements will. Hopefully they'll do that with Green Lantern too. Show Hal in the real world suddenly introduced to an alien one. If it's goofy and campy all around there is no contrast.

[Eros]

eros what i meant with realism is to have a world that looks like a ready ordinary place like any real city out there and have folks react realistically if a super powered alien came out to the public. folks would probably be scared and worried he was going to take over the world. Now i dont want film to be an ultra realistic thing like nolan did with batman. i want to see scifi/fantasy stuff there and for them to go all out with that stuff.

Thats just it, Metropolis isnt a "real" city its a freaking METROPOLIS, a shining example of human achievmnet, its the city that humans dream of, something we in the real world hope to achieve. Its shouldnt look like down town Chicago or whatever, it should look like the greatest city that we ever built. Superman is a fantastic being, his world should match his wonder and awe. his city should be the exact opposite of Batmans city.

[Crook]

I don't know why you're entirely focused on aesthetics. The majority of his post exemplifies the need for a fictional world to have the tangibility of real-life emotions. Whether a story is hardcore realism or fantasy, the heart of the narrative always, always, has to connect with the viewer to succeed. The actions and reactions perform in a way we expect of the human condition.

Hence the whole "fear the superpowered alien" angle. Something that has yet to be done for the character, and would go a long way to changing how the character is seen by today's audiences.

[Eros]

I don't know why you're entirely focused on aesthetics. The majority of his post exemplifies the need for a fictional world to have the tangibility of real-life emotions. Whether a story is hardcore realism or fantasy, the heart of the narrative always, always, has to connect with the viewer to succeed. The actions and reactions perform in a way we expect of the human condition.

Hence the whole "fear the superpowered alien" angle. Something that has yet to be done for the character, and would go a long way to changing how the character is seen by today's audiences.

I have no problem with that, the public fearing him at first makes perfect sense.

[Willi Berg]

Even a big, shining Metropolis would be better served with realism, its architecture and design and physics still need to be grounded in reality, no matter how big the buildings are. The more they make it look like a real city, the more impressive it will be.

[Webhead2006]

yea crook that is what i was trying to get to with my post to eros.

[GreenKToo]

I wouldn't really mind if Metropolis is shown to be somewhat like NYC in scale and scope as long as they actually show it this time.
I never really got the sense that Metropolis was this huge city in SR.

[Superman Prime]

Thats just it, Metropolis isnt a "real" city its a freaking METROPOLIS, a shining example of human achievmnet, its the city that humans dream of, something we in the real world hope to achieve. Its shouldnt look like down town Chicago or whatever, it should look like the greatest city that we ever built. Superman is a fantastic being, his world should match his wonder and awe. his city should be the exact opposite of Batmans city.

Several months ago I talked about it being an interesting idea to have Metropolis closer to being Gotham than classic Metropolis. . . until Superman becomes active. It doesn't really have to start off as this clean, glorious city. I'd like to see that be the result of Superman's activities. He gives its good citizens a real sense of hope and security, so they pull their heads out and put more effort themselves into making Metropolis a better place too.

[Doctor Jones]

I think just because Nolan is on board this film doesn't mean everything will be realistic and what Nolan has done with the Batman films. Just use what is appealing to the character. Why people love him. Apply those sort of things and it's easy to do. Don't make him dark for the sake of it. This is Superman. He inspires hope, use that. You can have darker elements, but keep the overall film off the grim and gritty Batman stage.

[GreenKToo]

I think just because Nolan is on board this film doesn't mean everything will be realistic and what Nolan has done with the Batman films. Just use what is appealing to the character. Why people love him. Apply those sort of things and it's easy to do. Don't make him dark for the sake of it. This is Superman. He inspires hope, use that. You can have darker elements, but keep the overall film off the grim and gritty Batman stage.
I agree. What I would like to see is a superman that's bright, and a beacon of hope, with NO emotional baggage.
When Brainiac arrives, he turns the earth into a very dark place. I want to see him take out thousands/millions of people with no more thought about it than we would have about taking out some ants that's on our lawn.
Also, I would like to see the threat feel more worldwide this time.
Maybe have other cities in other countries in ruins too. Maybe he deploys his drones all over the Earth or something, I dunno.

[kalelkilla]

I agree with you GreenKToo, I know Superman isn't dark himself, but you can make the world around him dark and the circumstances around him dark and the villain as nasty as they get without making Superman himself dark. But I would like to see Superman mad as hell at one point and violent at one point. Does that him dark? I don't think so, even the best of us lose our heads sometimes. I want to see Superman driven to the brink of his morals, and then sticking to them in the end despite his impossible circumstances. What do you guys think?

[SrsBsns]

I agree with you GreenKToo, I know Superman isn't dark himself, but you can make the world around him dark and the circumstances around him dark and the villain as nasty as they get without making Superman himself dark. But I would like to see Superman mad as hell at one point and violent at one point. Does that him dark? I don't think so, even the best of us lose our heads sometimes. I want to see Superman driven to the brink of his morals, and then sticking to them in the end despite his impossible circumstances. What do you guys think?

Sounds familiar but I'm not sure why...

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/8209/darkknight1.jpg

[El Payaso]

Sounds familiar but I'm not sure why...

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/8209/darkknight1.jpg

I am. And it still sounds a great idea.

[SrsBsns]

I'd like to Superman pushed to his PHYSICAL limits and definitely show a range of all his emotions, but it just seems kind of...typical to do the whole "Superhero who nearly crosses the line" story.

[Mr. Earle]

I agree with you GreenKToo, I know Superman isn't dark himself, but you can make the world around him dark and the circumstances around him dark and the villain as nasty as they get without making Superman himself dark. But I would like to see Superman mad as hell at one point and violent at one point. Does that him dark? I don't think so, even the best of us lose our heads sometimes. I want to see Superman driven to the brink of his morals, and then sticking to them in the end despite his impossible circumstances. What do you guys think?
Do not want.

[Dark Knight]

I'd like to Superman pushed to his PHYSICAL limits and definitely show a range of all his emotions, but it just seems kind of...typical to do the whole "Superhero who nearly crosses the line" story.





I want to see Supes show a range of emotions also.....that was seriously lacking in SR.....

[protocida]

Here's what I remember of Justice League: Mortal's plot, for anyone who's interested:

It'd begin with Superman, Wonder-Woman, Flash, Green Lantern John Stewart, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter going to a funeral. Batman would be there too, hidden in the shadows to maintain his status as a urban legend.

Then, the movie would go six days back in time. Batman has been using an advanced survelliance satellite called Brother-Eye to monitor the other members of the Justice League and keeps detailed files on how to defeat them in case they ever go rogue. Someone hacks into the Batcomputer, steals the files and takes control of Broter-Eye without Batman noticing.

Martian Manhunter is attacked in his human form, detective John Jones from the Central City Police Department, and has his body taken over by a swarm of nanobots. He's taken to Colorado, where he's captured by Checkmate, a secret agency created by the american government to monitor the meta-human community.

Checkmate's director, evil businessman Maxwell Lord, believes the meta-humans are slowly taking control of the world and decides to exterminate them one by one, starting by the Justice League.

Trough the nanobots, Lord is able to control Martian Manhunter's telephatic powers and use them to mind-wipe Superman into believing he's fighting his greatest enemies when he's actually attacking his friends. Lord sends Superman to kill Batman, but Wonder-Woman intercepts him and a big fight breaks out.

Meanwhile, Lord sends OMACs, humans infected with a nanovirus that transformers them into cyborg murderers programmed with Batman's files about the Justice League to attack Green Lantern, Aquaman and Flash, that managed to uncover the whole conspiracy. Flash confronts Lord, but is killed.

Wonder-Woman also finds everything out and confronts Lord. He tells her the only way to free Superman of his mind-control is to kill him, and Wonder-Woman does so. The Justice League reunites and fights the OMACs, now controlled by Talia Al Ghul, R'as Al Ghul's daughter, new leader of the League of Shadows and bent on destroying Batman. It'd also be revealed that the real mastermind behind Lord and Talia is no other than Lex Luthor himself.

The Justice League is aided by Wally West, the Flash Barry Allen's nephew. He becomes the new Flash in homenage to his uncle and helps the team to defeat Luthor, Talia and the OMACs.

In the ending, Barry is buried, Batman leaves the Justice League and hints about the next villain, Darkseid, are presented.

:cwink:

[Mr. Earle]

Here's what I remember of Justice League: Mortal's plot, for anyone who's interested:

It'd begin with Superman, Wonder-Woman, Flash, Green Lantern John Stewart, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter going to a funeral. Batman would be there too, hidden in the shadows to maintain his status as a urban legend.

Then, the movie would go six days back in time. Batman has been using an advanced survelliance satellite called Brother-Eye to monitor the other members of the Justice League and keeps detailed files on how to defeat them in case they ever go rogue. Someone hacks into the Batcomputer, steals the files and takes control of Broter-Eye without Batman noticing.

Martian Manhunter is attacked in his human form, detective John Jones from the Central City Police Department, and has his body taken over by a swarm of nanobots. He's taken to Colorado, where he's captured by Checkmate, a secret agency created by the american government to monitor the meta-human community.

Checkmate's director, evil businessman Maxwell Lord, believes the meta-humans are slowly taking control of the world and decides to exterminate them one by one, starting by the Justice League.

Trough the nanobots, Lord is able to control Martian Manhunter's telephatic powers and use them to mind-wipe Superman into believing he's fighting his greatest enemies when he's actually attacking his friends. Lord sends Superman to kill Batman, but Wonder-Woman intercepts him and a big fight breaks out.

Meanwhile, Lord sends OMACs, humans infected with a nanovirus that transformers them into cyborg murderers programmed with Batman's files about the Justice League to attack Green Lantern, Aquaman and Flash, that managed to uncover the whole conspiracy. Flash confronts Lord, but is killed.

Wonder-Woman also finds everything out and confronts Lord. He tells her the only way to free Superman of his mind-control is to kill him, and Wonder-Woman does so. The Justice League reunites and fights the OMACs, now controlled by Talia Al Ghul, R'as Al Ghul's daughter, new leader of the League of Shadows and bent on destroying Batman. It'd also be revealed that the real mastermind behind Lord and Talia is no other than Lex Luthor himself.

The Justice League is aided by Wally West, the Flash Barry Allen's nephew. He becomes the new Flash in homenage to his uncle and helps the team to defeat Luthor, Talia and the OMACs.

In the ending, Barry is buried, Batman leaves the Justice League and hints about the next villain, Darkseid, are presented.

:cwink:
What a ****ty story.
Lord sends Superman to kill Batman, but Wonder-Woman intercepts him and a big fight breaks out. "Damn it Diana, i said i had him!"
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/7087/supermanvsbatman.jpg

[Adenjo]

I agree with you GreenKToo, I know Superman isn't dark himself, but you can make the world around him dark and the circumstances around him dark and the villain as nasty as they get without making Superman himself dark. But I would like to see Superman mad as hell at one point and violent at one point. Does that him dark? I don't think so, even the best of us lose our heads sometimes. I want to see Superman driven to the brink of his morals, and then sticking to them in the end despite his impossible circumstances. What do you guys think?

I like this.
A "dark" world devoid of true hope, then Superman appeared bringing light to the darkness.
The world loves Superman and he loves the world.. Cares for the world.. protects the world.
Then a new menace appers, a menace the likes of which Superman has never faced before.
How far would Superman go to protect the world?
Would even Superman with his strong code against killing be able to keep to his rules if face with such a threat?
And if Superman came close to killing, if the world saw his true power, would the world look at Superman with no hint of fear?

[protocida]

What a ****ty story.
Why? It's pretty much "Sacrifice"/"OMAC Project"/"Tower of Babel" blended into one.

[Mr. Earle]

Why? It's pretty much "Sacrifice"/"OMAC Project"/"Tower of Babel" blended into one.
I havent read "sacrifice", but OMAC and ToB were ****ty stories. Not to mention that Flash would die in the movie, the forced inclusion of Ras, Talia and Lex, the lack of character development or explanation of how and why the JL was formed, etc.

Instead of that crappy story, they'd better start with showing the JL forming because of some worldwide threat like in the animated series. The worldwide threat could be set up slowly in each seperate franchise justifying this way the formation of the JL.

The movie should deal with the heroes working together for the first time (except BM and SM who will be already friends from a WF movie), and the response of the world and the villains to a superhero team. I think its much better than making them hate each other from the first minute they work together.

Movie ends with Batman having second doubts because they are becoming too powerful, Lex striking a deal with the goverment to initiate CADMUS as an anti-JL project in case they go rogue, etc. Batman could make his own plans but they shouldnt make a story out of them. Perhaps one of them is mind controlled and Batman takes him down with the others asking: "do you have plans for all of us?", but nothing more than that.

In other words, they should take notes from Dini's JLU and Morrison's JLA run instead of gimmicky stories like ToB.

Then they can deal with CADMUS. Much better imho.

[Webhead2006]

I think just because Nolan is on board this film doesn't mean everything will be realistic and what Nolan has done with the Batman films. Just use what is appealing to the character. Why people love him. Apply those sort of things and it's easy to do. Don't make him dark for the sake of it. This is Superman. He inspires hope, use that. You can have darker elements, but keep the overall film off the grim and gritty Batman stage.
totally i agree with you jones, i think alot of folks think he will just make a dark/ ultra realistic superman like he did with batman. that worked for batman. But doesnt work for what superman is. Plus he has stated in many interviews he knows that superman and batman are two totally different types of characters. He will just probably take how he made and shaped batman films and apply it with who ever is his director on superman and make the right tone and feel to fit with superman.

[protocida]

^ "OMAC Project" and "Tower of Babel" ****** stories? FAIL!

Besides, it doesn't really matter, Earle. Alternate you finds it awesome.

[Mr. Earle]

^ "OMAC Project" and "Tower of Babel" ****** stories? FAIL!

Besides, it doesn't really matter, Earle. Alternate you finds it awesome.
With some work, both stories could become a lot better. Like refining Batman's plans (most of them are stupid), or having Lord create OMAC and not Batman. In any case those stories cant work as the source material for the first movie because it should be about the formation of the JL not its tearing apart from the inside. You first need to establish their separate relationships, bonds and god knows what else and then you can proceed taking them down. And in all honesty, the CADMUS arc from JLU was a lot better than ToB and OMAC.

Also, read this. Its about Batman:RIP and there's more of it (if you want i can post it) but here's the relevant part:
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3134/aaaaaq.png

[El Payaso]

I'd like to Superman pushed to his PHYSICAL limits and definitely show a range of all his emotions, but it just seems kind of...typical to do the whole "Superhero who nearly crosses the line" story.

How is the physical challenge any less typical?

[Doctor Jones]

Thank God that movie never happened. Good God... what ****.

[BH/HHH]

I agree. What I would like to see is a superman that's bright, and a beacon of hope, with NO emotional baggage.
When Brainiac arrives, he turns the earth into a very dark place. I want to see him take out thousands/millions of people with no more thought about it than we would have about taking out some ants that's on our lawn.
Also, I would like to see the threat feel more worldwide this time.
Maybe have other cities in other countries in ruins too. Maybe he deploys his drones all over the Earth or something, I dunno.

That I would love this. a worldwide threat is a much better idea. A guy I know from the Planet forums once wrote a script for a SR sequel and it was brilliant, it had the army been paranoid of Superman and even more so after the arrival of Brainiac but the one thing I liked most was the script started out with Superman saving London from Terrorists. I hope they do something similar to that.

[GreenKToo]

I would love to see Supes get so angry at Brainiac that he uses his heat vision at full force on some of his drones. First, Supes eyes glow red and smoke, and then he unleashes it like never before.
When it's all over, several drones would be vaporized, with others left standing with about half their bodies blown away.
Nearby buildings and cars get incinerated in the blast as well.

That's the kind of things I hope we see.

[SpiderByte]

I've always wanted to see what happens if Supes completely uses it.

As for how the films go, I'd like it for something like this (assuming they DO make more):

Man of Steel: Lex Luthor and Braniac
Second film: Lex Luthor and Metallo (or Bizzaro).
Third film: Lex Luthor and DOOMSDAY! :twisted:

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

They need to do Darkseid:

iTECNKpZAM4

[Superman Prime]

I've always wanted to see what happens if Supes completely uses it.

As for how the films go, I'd like it for something like this (assuming they DO make more):

Man of Steel: Lex Luthor and Braniac
Second film: Lex Luthor and Metallo (or Bizzaro).
Third film: Lex Luthor and DOOMSDAY! :twisted:

Metallo right after Brainiac would be underwhelming unless they did a DAMN excellent job in developing the character and making his threat serious.

Man of Steel: Lex Luthor and Brainiac
#2: Darkseid
#3: Return of Darkseid accompanied by Zod and army of surviving Kryptonians (both possessing deeply personal vendettas against Superman, set on brutalizing and enslaving humanity)

[Sawyer]

Thank God that movie never happened. Good God... what ****.

What movie? If you're talking about Justice League: Mortal, then I have to agree.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

[NERD ON]I want a 3.5 hr film with Lex, Brainiac, Metallo, Doomsday, and Darkseid. :up:
[/NERD OFF]

;)

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Metallo can have a supporting villain role in MOS.

Lex manipulates John Corben/Metallo, Brainiac manipulates Lex.

Superman beats all of them.

I wouldn't mind a teaser at the end to set up the next villain either.

Maybe the lights go off in the city. Superman looks around at a rooftop at the other buildings as the lights keep going off.

He hears a voice with something like "Last son of Krypton... It is time."

Setting up Darkseid.

[Mr. Earle]

That I would love this. a worldwide threat is a much better idea. A guy I know from the Planet forums once wrote a script for a SR sequel and it was brilliant, it had the army been paranoid of Superman and even more so after the arrival of Brainiac but the one thing I liked most was the script started out with Superman saving London from Terrorists. I hope they do something similar to that.I'd love to see the goverment run the Cadmus project with Amanda Waller when the Superheroes form the JL. Waller is the woman who makes the goddamn Batman pee his pants. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Waller%20vs%20Batman.jpgThey need to do Darkseid:

iTECNKpZAM4
Darkseid is probably my favourite DC villain but i wouldnt want him just yet. Preferably in a JL movie or in a later Superman one.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Darkseid is probably my favourite DC villain but i wouldnt want him just yet. Preferably in a JL movie or in a later Superman one.
That's what I'm thinking.

[GreenKToo]

My wish..
1st film..Brainiac.
2nd. Kalibak or Doomsday ( whichever, both would be sent by Darkseid ) Superman defeats him, causing Darkseid to prepare and go to Earth himself to defeat this ''superman''.
3rd. Darkseid. *IF* they wanted to ever set up a JL film, Darkseid would be the perfect fit.

[Mr. Earle]

I'd also love to see Mongul, one of my favourite villains as well.

Perhaps the movie could start with Superman escaping from Warworld (Mongul's planet which he rules and uses gladiatorial games to distract the people from their real problems) and then Mongul brings the heat to Metropolis to extract his revenge. I'm proposing this plot because i dont think many people would enjoy watching Gladiator 2: Superman.

Anyway, I'd love to hear the iconic lines:
- Happy Birthday Kryptonian. I give you Oblivion!
- Burn (SM uses heat vision)

but change the "Happy Birthday" into something else since it wouldnt be his birthday as in "For the man who has everything".

[Superman Prime]

I'm adding onto my idea for the third installment.

Man of Steel: Lex Luthor and Brainiac (Brainiac literally controls and consumes Lex Luthor similar to what we saw in JLU; Luthor, to Brainiac, is the representation of the perfected human, so seeks to use him and afterward add him to his "collection" amongst various alien races that he has already destroyed).

#2: Darkseid (working on this one)

#3: Return of Darkseid accompanied by Zod and army of surviving Kryptonians (both possessing deeply personal vendettas against Superman, set on brutalizing and enslaving humanity) + Superman joins forces with Lex Luthor for his ingenuity; they face the threat together, Lex being in the Batman-esque role as normal human beside The Man of Steel.

[GreenKToo]

I remember a few ideas folks had here about using mongul in the SR sequel....Something about superman being kidnapped on his way back from his trip to krypton, he woke up, and discovered he really had no son, etc...

[Mr. Earle]

My wish..
1st film..Brainiac.
2nd. Kalibak or Doomsday ( whichever, both would be sent by Darkseid ) Superman defeats him, causing Darkseid to prepare and go to Earth himself to defeat this ''superman''.
3rd. Darkseid. *IF* they wanted to ever set up a JL film, Darkseid would be the perfect fit.
I'd introduce the fourth world slowly as well. Kalibak, Steppenwolf, Orion, Metron, Granny, Highfather, and all the other characters are worth it.

First i'd introduce them all (except Darkseid who i'd keep in the shadows for the first movie and reveal in the second) in a Superman movie and have the plot revolving around Darkseid setting up his invasion by tactical strikes and espionage. I'd also have subplots in every other movie franchise with Batman monitoring or running into one of the Furies, Hal getting briefed by the Guardians about a coming threat, Flash meeting Metron or whoever, etc.
The plot would be resolved in a JL film that would deal with Darkseid's full scale invasion.

[GreenKToo]

I know Lex is a SOB, but I would love to see him in the first film discover Brainiacs true intentions and decide to help defeat him somehow..an enemy of my enemy type of thing.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

but change the "Happy Birthday" into something else since it wouldnt be his birthday as in "For the man who has everything".
Movie night. Batman brought the popcorn, Wonder Woman brought All Dogs go to Heaven.

[Mr. Earle]

I'm adding onto my idea for the third installment.

Man of Steel: Lex Luthor and Brainiac (Brainiac literally controls and consumes Lex Luthor similar to what we saw in JLU; Luthor, to Brainiac, is the representation of the perfected human, so seeks to use him and afterward add him to his "collection" amongst various alien races that he has already destroyed).

#2: Darkseid (working on this one)

#3: Return of Darkseid accompanied by Zod and army of surviving Kryptonians (both possessing deeply personal vendettas against Superman, set on brutalizing and enslaving humanity) + Superman joins forces with Lex Luthor for his ingenuity; they face the threat together, Lex being in the Batman-esque role as normal human beside The Man of Steel.
Zod AND Darkseid? That would never happen. The fourth dimension has a ton of interesting characters to showcase, why would you bring in Zod? He's irrelevant. It would be like Spiderman 3. I remember a few ideas folks had here about using mongul in the SR sequel....Something about superman being kidnapped on his way back from his trip to krypton, he woke up, and discovered he really had no son, etc...
I think the plot that you saw was influenced by "For the man who has everything", one of the most iconic Superman stories, written by Alan Moore. Read it, or watch the JL animated episode on Youtube. Its one of the best.

I think they could use some plot points from it, but not the whole story.

Here it is:
Ke_qkUlwWrY
qbDzrEy539Y&feature=related
y3uReTl9Gqc&feature=related

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

It's nice to know that in Clark's ideal world, his shoulders are still a mile apart.

[Mr. Earle]

I know Lex is a SOB, but I would love to see him in the first film discover Brainiacs true intentions and decide to help defeat him somehow..an enemy of my enemy type of thing.
It happened in STAS if i remember correctly. Lex does what he does for the good of humanity, he just cant believe that Superman is benevolent, and he is envious of his powers.

[GreenKToo]

I wonder if Nolan would even consider a villain like Darkseid?

[Superman Prime]

Zod AND Darkseid? That would never happen. The fourth dimension has a ton of interesting characters to showcase, why would you bring in Zod? He's irrelevant. It would be like SM3.

Expound.

[Superman Prime]

double post

[Mr. Earle]

Expound.
What do you mean? What would you like me to expound on?

[Superman Prime]

You're saying it would be like Superman III. Unless you go into further detail on how so the comment stands as utterly false.

Or Spider-Man III, I don't know.

[Mr. Earle]

You're saying it would be like Superman III. Unless you go into further detail on how so the comment stands as utterly false.

Or Spider-Man III, I don't know.
Yeah i meant Spiderman 3. I should have written the whole name, sorry.

Anyway, Darkseid is a New God. There are two planets full of them. Apocolips and New Genesis and when Darkseid makes a move, its usually a global, if not a universal matter. Why would you put Zod in there when

1) He has nothing to do with the 4th world
2) He is from Krypton. Why not use him in his own story and have the time to explore Krypton, Jor-El, etc?
3) There are countless magnificent characters among the New Gods. One movie isnt enough for all of them and you'll bring in another villain?

This is like having an icecream with 10 flavours and wanting to put a steak on it too.

[Superman Prime]

Yeah i meant Spiderman 3. I should have written the whole name, sorry.

Anyway, Darkseid is a New God. There are two planets full of them. Apocolips and New Genesis and when Darkseid makes a move, its usually a global, if not a universal matter. Why would you put Zod in there when

1) He has nothing to do with the 4th world
2) He is from Krypton. Why not use him in his own story and have the time to explore Krypton, Jor-El, etc?
3) There are countless magnificent characters among the New Gods. One movie isnt enough for all of them and you'll bring in another villain?

This is like having an icecream with 10 flavours and wanting to put a steak on it too.

Speaking of Spider-Man 3, here is my in-depth review:

YsvyX0jgszA

Anyway,

Recently I wrote off Zod as a potentially good villain for the new Superman series, until I contemplated it further, remembering back to "World of New Krypton" wherein Zod is gathering an army of Kryptonians with the same powers as Superman (he only has the advantage of experience over the others. . . but that can't last for long). Kal relies very heavily on fighting technique, intelligent, cleverness, etc. It holds a lot of potential to act as inspiration for the new Superman film series.

2) He is from Krypton. Why not use him in his own story and have the time to explore Krypton, Jor-El, etc?

Apparently in this upcoming film they'll be delving into Kryptonian mythology as it pertains to Superman and Brainiac. Zod can easily play into that. By the time he rolls around, I don't think that much backstory would be necessary.

3) There are countless magnificent characters among the New Gods. One movie isnt enough for all of them and you'll bring in another villain?

Part of the reason I believe Darkseid deserves his own time as the sole villain.

[Mr. Earle]

Apparently in this upcoming film they'll be delving into Kryptonian mythology as it pertains to Superman and Brainiac. Zod can easily play into that. By the time he rolls around, I don't think that much backstory would be necessary.
1) Zod has already been used when there are countless others that we havent seen.
2) We could get a cameo with him on Krypton before its destruction but i wouldnt want him as the main villain. He is kinda meh...
Part of the reason I believe Darkseid deserves his own time as the sole villain. He cant be a sole villain. He is the ruler of a planet of Gods, which exists in another dimension. And the other New Gods are just as interesting as he is. That's his shtick.
Oh and another thing: While he is an expert fighter, he only fights when necessary. He prefers outthinking and outmaneuvering the enemy rather than winning with brute force.

Having him as a sole villain is the equivalent of presenting Ras as an evil warrior from the east that uses a sword, when he is much more than that.

[Superman Prime]

He cant be a sole villain.

Underlings aside (ex. Granny Goodness)

[Superman Prime]

double post

[GreenKToo]

I wouldnt want Zod. There are way to many villains we havent seen on screen yet to use one that we've already seen..

[GreenKToo]

EDIT: double trouble.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Cool the dp's wtf :confused:

[Superman Prime]

^ Sometimes you can click the button only once and it double posts. It's irritating.

[GreenKToo]

what about having Darkseid involved with all 3 films?
Like maybe in the first film have Brainiac as the main villain and Lex as a secondary villain, he's there, but not on screen every two seconds.
After Brainiac is defeated at the end it's discovered that he was really sent by an even more powerful being to scout the earth's defenses, but just who he is they don't know.

Second. You could have Kalibak or Doomsday show up, reeking havoc. Its discovered after he is defeated that he was sent by the same being that sent Brainiac...Darkseid.
I'd hint at him in shadow, and maybe hear his voice. save the reveal for the third film.

3rd.. Darkseid. Superman and all the militaries of the world on one side, Darkseid and the armies of Apolkolips on the other.
That's probably to sci-fi I guess, but i'd pay real money to see it.

[GreenKToo]

yeah..I been here long enough to know to only hit it once....:oldrazz:

[Willi Berg]

I'd like to Superman pushed to his PHYSICAL limits and definitely show a range of all his emotions, but it just seems kind of...typical to do the whole "Superhero who nearly crosses the line" story.
Would like to see him pushed to his physical limits. I guess you could say that happened in SR, but I'd like to see him bruised and bloodied in a fight and really have to push himself to keep going, something that also messes with him mentally.

[Mr. Earle]

what about having Darkseid involved with all 3 films?
Like maybe in the first film have Brainiac as the main villain and Lex as a secondary villain, he's there, but not on screen every two seconds.
After Brainiac is defeated at the end it's discovered that he was really sent by an even more powerful being to scout the earth's defenses, but just who he is they don't know.

Second. You could have Kalibak or Doomsday show up, reeking havoc. Its discovered after he is defeated that he was sent by the same being that sent Brainiac...Darkseid.
I'd hint at him in shadow, and maybe hear his voice. save the reveal for the third film.

3rd.. Darkseid. Superman and all the militaries of the world on one side, Darkseid and the armies of Apolkolips on the other.
That's probably to sci-fi I guess, but i'd pay real money to see it.
The comics do that all the time. For example Morrison's Black Glove arc in his Batman books has been playing in the background since he took over in 2006 and four years later it still hasnt been resolved. There are some issues dedicated to it, but in the meantime Batman fights other villains.

That could happen with Darkseid in the movies where hints are dropped here and there but the full reveal is done a lot later. Batman does his thing and fights the Joker or Mr Freeze and oops, who's that chick dressed like a S&M pornstar (one of the Furies) that stole that piece of tech (or whatever the plot requires)? Batman monitors this strange activity but cant do anything else about it. Similar things happen in every other superhero's movie and it all comes together in the JL movie.

Btw, like Darkseid and Zod, Kalibak and Doomsday dont match. Again, there are countless of New Gods to use. Steppenwolf could be another one of Darkseid's main men.

[GreenKToo]

Yeah, I wanna see Supes with black eyes, busted lip, suit ripped, etc.
I want the villain to look just as bad or worse, and for their surroundings to look the same. Stuff like buildings in the background burning, some collapsed, craters here and there. And a look of exhaustion on Superman's face from not only fighting the villain, but from also trying to save innocents at the same time.

[GreenKToo]

The comics do that all the time. For example Morrison's Black Glove arc in his Batman books has been playing in the background since he took over in 2006 and four years later it still hasnt been resolved. There are some issues dedicated to it, but in the meantime Batman fights other villains.

That could happen with Darkseid in the movies where hints are dropped here and there but the full reveal is done a lot later. Batman does his thing and fights the Joker or Mr Freeze and oops, who's that chick dressed like a S&M pornstar (one of the Furies) that stole that piece of tech (or whatever the plot requires)? Batman monitors this strange activity but cant do anything else about it. Similar things happen in every other superhero's movie and it all comes together in the JL movie.

Btw, like Darkseid and Zod, Kalibak and Doomsday dont match. Again, there are countless of New Gods to use. Steppenwolf could be another one of Darkseid's main men.
The who wouldn't matter to me as much as the why, which would be that they are working for Darkseid.

[Superman Prime]

Yeah, I wanna see Supes with black eyes, busted lip, suit ripped, etc.
I want the villain to look just as bad or worse, and for their surroundings to look the same. Stuff like buildings in the background burning, some collapsed, craters here and there. And a look of exhaustion on Superman's face from not only fighting the villain, but from also trying to save innocents at the same time.

Good gracious, and here I was thinking you were a Superman fan. :oldrazz:

[GreenKToo]

haha yeah..nothing like seeing your hero come back from a beating and putting an a$$ whipping on somebody.

[Mr. Earle]

The who wouldn't matter to me as much as the why, which would be that they are working for Darkseid.
As i said before, Darkseid is the ruler of a planet. He doesnt get people to work for him, he orders his minions to do so. And Granny trains super soldiers for him, the Furies being the most notable of them.

In other words, Doomsday doesnt fit. Btw i still dont see why people like him. I mean he is a stupid monster that killed Superman. He isnt really a character.

[SuperMike335!!]

Yeah, I wanna see Supes with black eyes, busted lip, suit ripped, etc.
I want the villain to look just as bad or worse, and for their surroundings to look the same. Stuff like buildings in the background burning, some collapsed, craters here and there. And a look of exhaustion on Superman's face from not only fighting the villain, but from also trying to save innocents at the same time.

Yes, I would like to see than knuckle scraping brawl like you describe as well.

That also means the next actor they cast should have the ability to do some stunt acting and actually look like a guy who can be in such a fight.

He should like he is a strong guy able to fight without powers.

I mean we have had 5 Superman movies, without a fight scene half as good as some of the animated Superman fights we have seen.

Even if its not doomsday he is fighting, and he does not have to die at the end, I want at least one good fight with a Super Villain at least as brutal as this one:

Fz3xqyrI2bM

[GreenKToo]

I doubt nolan would ever think about using Darkseid anyway..It would cost a freaking fortune to do all you would need to do to portray him the right way, ie; Apolkolips, new gods, etc.
Right now i'm just thankful Brainiac is being talked about.

[S.A.A.D.]

Now that I have had more time to think about Nolan sheparding this movie,I fear that like TDK,that this movie won't be a 50/50 serious and fun movie. What I mean is that I think TDK is too serious and not fun enough,so I really hope that he doesn't have enough creative control over this movie. But like before however,I'm still cautiously optimistic about this new Superman movie,too much time has been wasted for another good enough Superman movie to be made. Ridiculous and unacceptable.

[GreenKToo]

Yes, I would like to see than knuckle scraping brawl like you describe as well.

That also means the next actor they cast should have the ability to do some stunt acting and actually look like a guy who can be in such a fight.

He should like he is a strong guy able to fight without powers.

I mean we have had 5 Superman movies, without a fight scene half as good as some of the animated Superman fights we have seen.

Even if its not doomsday he is fighting, and he does not have to die at the end, I want at least one good fight with a Super Villain at least as brutal as this one:

Fz3xqyrI2bM
Yeah thats great. Something even half as good would be fantastic to see in live action.

[hippie_hunter]

Darkseid should never be in a Superman movie. Period.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Darkseid should never be in a Superman movie. Period.

I love you, man.

[Lighthouse]

Never liked Darkseid.

[batman44]

I like Darkseid, I just think it'll be so much cooler to see him in a New Gods movie or Justice League.

[Lighthouse]

To me, Darkseid was always more appropriate as a Green Lantern villain.

[SuperMike335!!]

Heck, they could have a great with Superman and Brainiac, or even Metallo.

[Lighthouse]

I'd like a villain more in tone with Abrams script and Birthright. The threat is alien, but also familiar with roots connected to Superman. The villain, through his shared heritage and evil actions, cause people to look at Superman in a different way. To see him not as Earth's own, but as foreign and alien, and Superman has to prove that Earth is his home to and he belongs there.

In a way, I'd like to see what Superman Returns said it was about but wasn't. Not whining about his loneliness that he's the only one left, but embracing the adopted family and planet that loves him, and fighting to protect it.

[Kurosawa]

To me, Darkseid was always more appropriate as a Green Lantern villain.

Great Darkness Saga. Best use of Darkseid ever IMO.

[kalelkilla]

I agree with Lighthouse, I too would like the struggle to be with Superman letting go of his Kryptonian "longing to belong" and accept that Earth is his home the only one he's ever known and that the human race is worth dying for and will protect it at all costs.

I also would like to have the main villain have some connection to Krypton...and have the people of earth take a second look at Superman...then of course Superman proves himself to the people of earth by kicking some major ass...fighting to his near death.

[Mr. Earle]

Darkseid should never be in a Superman movie. Period.
Care to elaborate? To me, Darkseid was always more appropriate as a Green Lantern villain.
It certainly makes more sense. When evil gods from another dimension attack, the Lanterns should be the first ones to respond. Its just that they have many good villains so i dont mind giving this one to Superman. Besides, they have a personal vendetta and that makes DS more relevant to him.

[SpiderByte]

Darkseid should be in Justice League. :cool:

[kalelkilla]

I only liked Darkseid because he could actually fight Superman physically and wasn't just a monster like Doomsday. Other than that I could do without him. He would be best fit for a JLA villain.

[SpiderByte]

Yeah, me too. Doomsday would be great for live-action, though. Doomsday was easily one of Superman's deadliest enemies.

[Mr. Earle]

Yeah, me too. Doomsday would be great for live-action, though. Doomsday was easily one of Superman's deadliest enemies.
Elephants are pretty deadly too, but i'm sure that the Joker is much more interesting a character. Doomsday is just a monster that they cooked up to kill Superman. He isnt even a character and there is nothing to him.

I really dont see what's the fascination with him. Perhaps you guys need to read more Superman comics. Its not just "The Death of Superman" you know.

[SpiderByte]

First of all:

He's scary as hell.
He's incredibly dangerous, and is the only villain who has actually killed Superman. Without Kryptonite. This makes him one of the most powerful villains out there.
They could give him a backstory, like in Smallville.

[Mr. Earle]

First of all:

He's scary as hell.
He's incredibly dangerous, and is the only villain who has actually killed Superman. Without Kryptonite. This makes him one of the most powerful villains out there.
They could give him a backstory, like in Smallville.
What are you, ten years old? You are impressed by him just because he managed to kill Superman and he is strong? He is a mindless monster. Would be impressed by Croc if he killed Batman?

Why fashion a lame story for Doomsday (Smallville my god!!!) when we already have Brainiac, Mongul, Darkseid, Bizarro, etc? Am i seriously forced to defend Jack Kirby's Darkseid against Doomsday? What has the world come to?

[GreenKToo]

Darkseid would be great to use to set up a JL film imo. I think it would be awesome to see a villain that even superman can't handle alone. It would also give a good reason as to why a JL is even needed.

*IF* we got a 3rd Supes film, I would love for Darkseid to be the villain in it.

You could have huge fights, like in the animated Doomsday film. The fight would be broadcast live on TV and other heroes in the world that are watching know that if Supes falls, the rest of the world is next.

Each hero decides to go on their own to Metropolis without knowing that other heroes are on the way there as well. maybe even have it be some of ems first real test.
End the film showing a shot of each hero approaching Metropolis, and Darkseid holding up a barely moving Superman.

Yes I know it won't happen, but that still doesnt stop me from wishing.

[Daybreak_st]

I don't care about using Darkseid as he himself is a great character but the female furies and granny goodness are aweful. Orion and Kalibak aren't bad but Darkseid comes with A LOT of baggage - with all the new gods stuff, a lot of them being lame. I do agree on a large scale threat tho.

[Daybreak_st]

Anything you want to use Darkseid for you could use Mongul for. Okay no he doesn't have omega beams (which are awesome!) but as far as a threat goes. He challenges superman on a physical level, is a warlord, etc. He also doesn't come with the baggage that Darkseid does.

Also you know none of these villains will be an exact translation from the comic they'll take liberties where they see fit it works for the film, so you could easily modify Mongul to make him more like Darkseid if you needed to. But i can't say how much i loathe Darkseid's supporting cast, most those characters are simply aweful. I couldn't stand their inclusion in the animated series either. I feel bad for Darkseid, i guess it's true what they say, you can't find good help these days.

[SpiderByte]

Erm.

You say that Darkseid would be good for JL...then say he should be in a third Supes film?

Typo?

Killer Croc killing Bats is not similar to Doomsday killing Supes at ALL. Superman is almost literally indestructable: the fact that ANYONE can take him down is impressive, let alone kill him. Croc killing Bats wouldn't be as impressive because Bats doesnt have the power, strength, and invulnerability that Superman has. If Superman can even get CUT it's a big thing, because imagine how sharp the object that cut him was if he's BULLETPROOF.

We've never really seen a film where Superman is actually taken down by a villain, beaten to the point where he can barely stand up.

Doomsday isn't symbolic: The fight between them is.

[GreenKToo]

No, it's not a typo. Use the third Superman film to set up a JL film. To me, it would be hard to just jump into a JL film without setting it up beforehand.

Like I already said, I know it will never happen, but it's kool to hope/wish.

[SpiderByte]

Ohhhhhhhh, I see.

Maybe Doomsday is Darkseids experiment or something?

[Daybreak_st]

Ohhhhhhhh, I see.

Maybe Doomsday is Darkseids experiment or something?


Not a bad idea there

[GreenKToo]

I've always thought that Doomsday seemed better suited to have been created by Darkseid..it just seems like something he would do, create a mindless killing machine.

[FilmNerdJamie]

This week is ShoWest and Nolan is expected to be there. Just sayin'

[TruerToTheCore]

What are you, ten years old? You are impressed by him just because he managed to kill Superman and he is strong? He is a mindless monster. Would be impressed by Croc if he killed Batman?



I just love to point out that Killer Croc was a criminal mastermind in his first appearance, a long story-arc Knightfall later copied.

[kalelkilla]

This week is ShoWest and Nolan is expected to be there. Just sayin'

sweet. I hope Nolan doesn't get pissed at the media now that he let the cat out of the bag with Superman. that's all anyone wants to know about now...and Batman 3.

[solidsnake86]

I don't care about using Darkseid as he himself is a great character but the female furies and granny goodness are aweful. Orion and Kalibak aren't bad but Darkseid comes with A LOT of backage - with all the new gods stuff, a lot of them being lame. I do agree on a large scale threat tho.

Anything you want to use Darkseid for you could use Mongul for. Okay no he doesn't have omega beams (which are awesome!) but as far as a threat goes. He challenges superman on a physical level, is a warlord, etc. He also doesn't come with the backage that Darkseid does.

Also you know none of these villains will be an exact translation from the comic they'll take liberties where they see fit it works for the film, so you could easily modify Mongul to make him more like Darkseid if you needed to. But i can't say how much i loathe Darkseid's supporting cast, most those characters are simply aweful. I couldn't stand their inclusion in the animated series either. I feel bad for Darkseid, i guess it's true what they say, you can't find good help these days.



Completely agree with this and on top of it, if they use darkseid and make him different people are going to complain to no end. I'm not a fan of using darkseid or mongul as movie villains especially because brainiac kind of fulfills that space threat.

[Daybreak_st]

Completely agree with this and on top of it, if they use darkseid and make him different people are going to complain to no end. I'm not a fan of using darkseid or mongul as movie villains especially because brainiac kind of fulfills that space threat.


Yeah i see what you're saying. You have brainiac as an invading alien, then in the next movie you'be got...wait for it...another invading alien. I agree, i hope they're creative in using his villains so each movie is solid. Metallo is a great character, bizarro if done well, like he's a flawed clone of superman, you've got parasite, there's plenty to draw from.

A lot of people look at some of his villains and think they can't stand alone. But really a villain is only as good as his writers and his motivations. Look at Lex, a great character in the comics, but hasn't fully seen his potential in live action. Look at Whiplash in Iron Man 2. He looks like an amazing villain. While i don't know his origin from the comics, it looks like they made him fit logically into the world they're movie created. See that ingenituity right there. There should be an internal logic to how things work in the fictional world, and than can make certain villains work in that world. I really hope they approach this a Favareau is approaching iron man, i hope as a director we get his equivalent. BC they are doing an amazing job with iron man and his cast of characters, if superman was treated similarly it would be box office gold. :woot:

[Showtime]

This week is ShoWest and Nolan is expected to be there. Just sayin'

You mean CinemaCon (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118016433.html?categoryid=13&cs=1)! :oldrazz:

[Infinity9999x]

Erm.

You say that Darkseid would be good for JL...then say he should be in a third Supes film?

Typo?

Killer Croc killing Bats is not similar to Doomsday killing Supes at ALL. Superman is almost literally indestructable: the fact that ANYONE can take him down is impressive, let alone kill him. Croc killing Bats wouldn't be as impressive because Bats doesnt have the power, strength, and invulnerability that Superman has. If Superman can even get CUT it's a big thing, because imagine how sharp the object that cut him was if he's BULLETPROOF.

We've never really seen a film where Superman is actually taken down by a villain, beaten to the point where he can barely stand up.

Doomsday isn't symbolic: The fight between them is.

Well, to be fair, when Superman was killed by Doomsday he was also at some of his lowest power levels in recent history. He was no where near pre-crisis Supes.

[GreenKToo]

Lets just hope somebody asks him the right questions.

[Webhead2006]

supes does have some great villains and i would love to see the likes of brainiac, metallo, darkseid, doomsday, mongul make it into the big screen. For me i would perfer to leave darkseid or doomsday as threats in final film of the series. And others like brainaic, metallo, the earth bound foes be ones he starts off with. As for doing darkseid if they at the start plan things out i would definately like hints of darkseid out there/coming throughout the film series. So then it makes darkseid arrival in final film more epic and not just out of the blue.

[BH/HHH]

This week is ShoWest and Nolan is expected to be there. Just sayin'

Awesome lets hope we hear something. I'll bet if hes asked though he'll just repeat what he has already said.

[Zorex]

I wouldn't expect much of anything. He's very, very tight lipped on this stuff, and, as the LA Times article points out/reiterates, we won't be seeing this film until at least 2012 or '13. They're just at the very start of... the beginning of... the early processes. :p

[Lighthouse]

This week is ShoWest and Nolan is expected to be there. Just sayin'

Yeah, but I don't really expect much if anything out of him about Superman or Batman. I'm actually kind of amazed we got that much info from the LA Times article. Nolan's full focus will be on Inception.

[Mr. Earle]

I don't care about using Darkseid as he himself is a great character but the female furies and granny goodness are aweful. Orion and Kalibak aren't bad but Darkseid comes with A LOT of baggage - with all the new gods stuff, a lot of them being lame. I do agree on a large scale threat tho.
Did you just put the words "New Gods" and "aweful" in the same sentence?

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/909/1261281287655.pngErm.

You say that Darkseid would be good for JL...then say he should be in a third Supes film?

Typo?

Killer Croc killing Bats is not similar to Doomsday killing Supes at ALL. Superman is almost literally indestructable: the fact that ANYONE can take him down is impressive, let alone kill him. Croc killing Bats wouldn't be as impressive because Bats doesnt have the power, strength, and invulnerability that Superman has. If Superman can even get CUT it's a big thing, because imagine how sharp the object that cut him was if he's BULLETPROOF.

We've never really seen a film where Superman is actually taken down by a villain, beaten to the point where he can barely stand up.

Doomsday isn't symbolic: The fight between them is.So the movie starts with:
"Hurr durr Superman i kill you."
"No you dont"
"Yeah i do."
And then Superman is dead. And for some reason he is alive again at the end of the film. HOORAY!

[solidsnake86]

Yeah i see what you're saying. You have brainiac as an invading alien, then in the next movie you'be got...wait for it...another invading alien. I agree, i hope they're creative in using his villains so each movie is solid. Metallo is a great character, bizarro if done well, like he's a flawed clone of superman, you've got parasite, there's plenty to draw from.



Definately, its not that I don't like darkseid but he just isn't much of a superman villain to me and with brainiac making his appearance in the series, no matter how much you change the story for darkseid, at its core it remains an alien invading destroying the planet. You have to change up the motivations and different villains provide that. I agree with whiplash being one of those villains that at first you're thinking why did they choose him, but it seems like they created a better villain for the film (from what we've seen so far). Metallo and parasite are examples of villains that can really work on film if they are able to provide some great story's to surround them.

[Daybreak_st]

Definately, its not that I don't like darkseid but he just isn't much of a superman villain to me and with brainiac making his appearance in the series, no matter how much you change the story for darkseid, at its core it remains an alien invading destroying the planet. You have to change up the motivations and different villains provide that. I agree with whiplash being one of those villains that at first you're thinking why did they choose him, but it seems like they created a better villain for the film (from what we've seen so far). Metallo and parasite are examples of villains that can really work on film if they are able to provide some great story's to surround them.

Totally man, i think the those two and some others could work out really well for a movie, it just requires the director to invest some ingeniuity into them, like they did with whiplash.

Did you just put the words "New Gods" and "aweful" in the same sentence?



Yes, i did. I have no affection for these characters simply b/c Jack Kirby came up with them. tell me why their so great other than that simple fact? Other than DArkseid and a few of his supporting characters the rest are awful in my opinion especially Granny Goodness...shutters:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/247473-163579-granny-goodness_super.jpg

Also hate the female furies:

http://dccomicsartists.com/silverage/FemaleFuries-MMiracle06.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Furies_1.JPG

only decent one is Lashina (epically dumb name) and her mask is rediculous.

[Superman Prime]

They look cool to me. And Granny Goodness is creepy and threatening in her own unique way.

[RachelDawes]

only decent one is Lashina (epically dumb name) and her mask is rediculous.

Is one of them named Stompa? Heh, that's even worse than Lashina.

[kalelkilla]

Some things in the comics are meant to stay in the comics...

[Daybreak_st]

Some things in the comics are meant to stay in the comics...


Exactly my point, their level of rediculousness (is that a real word? :huh:) is part of their comic identity. They would not translate well into a live action film. For the love of all that is good don't put them in a new film. We'd be talking Nuclear man bad :doh:

[Mr. Earle]

Totally man, i think the those two and some others could work out really well for a movie, it just requires the director to invest some ingeniuity into them, like they did with whiplash.



Yes, i did. I have no affection for these characters simply b/c Jack Kirby came up with them. tell me why their so great other than that simple fact? Other than DArkseid and a few of his supporting characters the rest are awful in my opinion especially Granny Goodness...shutters:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/247473-163579-granny-goodness_super.jpg

Also hate the female furies:

http://dccomicsartists.com/silverage/FemaleFuries-MMiracle06.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Furies_1.JPG

only decent one is Lashina (epically dumb name) and her mask is rediculous.
They all have ridiculous names and costumes because they are from another dimension. That's their charm.
Apocolips is a steampunk planet filled with S&M, torture, and fires. New Genesis is a utopia with high tech.

Watch the STAS and JLU episodes with the New Gods and you'll come to love them.

[GreenKToo]

Is one of them named Stompa? Heh, that's even worse than Lashina.
I'm liking gillotina myself lol.

[Daybreak_st]

They all have ridiculous names and costumes because they are from another dimension. That's their charm.
Apocolips is a steampunk planet filled with S&M, torture, and fires. New Genesis is a utopia with high tech.

Watch the STAS and JLU episodes with the New Gods and you'll come to love them.


See that was probably my first exposure to them and i thought they were awful back then. The cool stuff was Darkseid supplying weapons to Bruno and his crew, then the reveal and invasion was great. But any episode that featured female furies and granny goodness = :csad: . I just don't see their appeal on any level whatsoever.

[solidsnake86]

They all have ridiculous names and costumes because they are from another dimension. That's their charm.
Apocolips is a steampunk planet filled with S&M, torture, and fires. New Genesis is a utopia with high tech.

Watch the STAS and JLU episodes with the New Gods and you'll come to love them.

In comics they're fine but frankly I don't want to see an hour spent explaining and developing those characters because it takes away from superman. Darkseid and the new gods aren't very practical in film without serverly toning them down. Just because things worked in the animated series doesn't mean they're great in film. Besides, didn't they pitch darkseid for a superman returns sequel and WB said no, I hope they keep that stance.

[Kurosawa]

Totally man, i think the those two and some others could work out really well for a movie, it just requires the director to invest some ingeniuity into them, like they did with whiplash.



Yes, i did. I have no affection for these characters simply b/c Jack Kirby came up with them. tell me why their so great other than that simple fact? Other than DArkseid and a few of his supporting characters the rest are awful in my opinion especially Granny Goodness...shutters:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/247473-163579-granny-goodness_super.jpg

Also hate the female furies:

http://dccomicsartists.com/silverage/FemaleFuries-MMiracle06.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Furies_1.JPG

only decent one is Lashina (epically dumb name) and her mask is rediculous.

Ever read any New Gods comics? Ever study what points Kirby was driving at? My guess would be no. Those characters serve their purpose and they were whacky for a reason.

I don't think Supes NEEDS to fight Darkseid in a movie-I think that would be better for a team movie, be it JLA or LoSH, but they are all good villains and they work in their own way. But Supes has his own foes and I think they work for movies just fine. One thing that DC did a great job of Post-Crisis was boosting Superman's rogues gallery.

One thing that would be awesome if these movies WERE tied together would be to see Hank Henshaw debut as a Superman villain, then move on to become one of Green Lantern's greatest foes. Jurgens Supes was so awesome, and Doomsday is really just the tip of the iceberg, not the ultimate Superman villain as so many people think.

[S.A.A.D.]

What is wrong with Darkseid being in a Superman movie? Would a few of you here rather have the likes of that Granny character? I personally think we as comic book fans haven't had an epic enough super villain done well for the big screen. And I really stress the key words epic enough super villain done well enough for the big screen. As good as Magneto was for example,he could have been a lot better in my opinion.

[SpiderByte]

Darkseid is a great villain for Superman, but would be a perfect one for the League.

[charl_huntress]

Ugh....

No

[charl_huntress]

UGH....

NO F-ing Granny Goodness, No Orion, NO

[charl_huntress]

UGH....

NO F-ing Granny Goodness, No Orion, NO Darksied.

Just give me a good friggin Superman movie unlike that last piece of garbage masquerading under Superman.

[Mr. Earle]

In comics they're fine but frankly I don't want to see an hour spent explaining and developing those characters because it takes away from superman. Darkseid and the new gods aren't very practical in film without serverly toning them down. Just because things worked in the animated series doesn't mean they're great in film. Besides, didn't they pitch darkseid for a superman returns sequel and WB said no, I hope they keep that stance.
Why would they need to be toned down?

Also, they dont require any character development, just some screentime to explain who's who and what they re doing. That is all. Darkseid would be the one driving the story forwards and all that.Ugh....

No
UGH....

NO F-ing Granny Goodness, No Orion, NOUGH....

NO F-ing Granny Goodness, No Orion, NO Darksied.

Just give me a good friggin Superman movie unlike that last piece of garbage masquerading under Superman.Are you trolling?

[charl_huntress]

Two years ago, I would have craved for Darkseid, but now....

NO. Darkseid is too imaginary for a reboot Superman. Plus, Darkseid involves many things any Superman should LEAVE OUT. We don't need to worry about Superman on another planet. The creators of this new movie need to figure out how to make him relative to EARTH.

[Superman Prime]

I don't think Charl is trolling, he/she hasn't posted here enough to have gotten into the real swing of forum etiquette.

[charl_huntress]

Are you trolling?

No, I'm not trolling. Not sure why I have so many double post.

Anyway, I'm just saying NO Darkseid. Not for a reboot.

[Mr. Earle]

I don't think Charl is trolling, he/she hasn't posted here enough to have gotten into the real swing of forum etiquette.It doesnt look like trolling but its kinda weird.No, I'm not trolling. Not sure why I have so many double post.

Anyway, I'm just saying NO Darkseid. Not for a reboot.My apologies then sir.

[charl_huntress]

It doesnt look like trolling but its kinda weird.My apologies then sir.

That's why I don't post here often. Wierd things happen. Ask Showey.

Ha...and I'm a madam. LOLOLOLOL

[Kurosawa]

What is wrong with Darkseid being in a Superman movie? Would a few of you here rather have the likes of that Granny character? I personally think we as comic book fans haven't had an epic enough super villain done well for the big screen. And I really stress the key words epic enough super villain done well enough for the big screen. As good as Magneto was for example,he could have been a lot better in my opinion.

Those characters are henchmen to Darkseid, not main villains.

I love Darkseid but as I've said before, would rather see him in a team movie. Especially a Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes movie.

In my ideal scenario, they would, in the new Superman movie, hint towards Ma Kent having made the costume for Clark when he was a teenager, like Geoff Johns did in Secret Origin, and then if the movie was a hit, spin off a Superboy/Legion series with a different actor as young Clark of course, as well as a World of Krypton prequel. They do Superman right and make it both relatable and epic and they could make a whole universe of movies just off of it and not even have to bother crossing over with the other DC Universe characters, which is what they tried to do before. I think it could work now, however. That's probably way more ambitious and involved than Nolan and company would want to work with, however. But...you never know.

[protocida]

Darkseid would be the perfect villain for the final Justice League movie, but since it doesn't seem Warner is going to make one anytime soon, I'd be in for Darkseid as the villain in the last Superman movie.

http://fightersgeneration.com/characters4/darkseid-1.gif

[Superman Prime]

In my ideal scenario, they would, in the new Superman movie, hint towards Ma Kent having made the costume for Clark when he was a teenager, like Geoff Johns did in Secret Origin, and then if the movie was a hit, spin off a Superboy/Legion series with a different actor as young Clark of course, as well as a World of Krypton prequel. They do Superman right and make it both relatable and epic and they could make a whole universe of movies just off of it and not even have to bother crossing over with the other DC Universe characters, which is what they tried to do before. I think it could work now, however. That's probably way more ambitious and involved than Nolan and company would want to work with, however. But...you never know.

I'd personally be more interested in seeing a Legion film over Justice League. Pure, unashamed superhero action in a vibrantly futuristic setting is a recipe for awesome.

[Superman Prime]

double

[protocida]

^ Aside from "futuristic setting", that's Justice League right there.

[Kurosawa]

I'd personally be more interested in seeing a Legion film over Justice League. Pure, unashamed superhero action in a vibrantly futuristic setting is a recipe for awesome.

Imagine a Legion movie that looked as awesome as Avatar. Hey, one can dream.

[Mr. Earle]

That's why I don't post here often. Wierd things happen. Ask Showey.

Ha...and I'm a madam. LOLOLOLOL
Sorry madam! :woot:

Anyway, I'd rather we get a JL movie than a Legion one.

[protocida]

^ Me too. Imagine Superman, Batman, Wonder-Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter fighting side by side against the White Martians! Or Checkmate! Or the Legion of Doom! Or A.M.A.Z.O! Or Darkseid! Or the Anti-monitor! :woot:

[Webhead2006]

yea i said it before i would love to see darkseid as a superman film villain. But i would hold him off to be final film of series guy myself. To show he is the top baddie of them all and show how much power he has and all that. But i wouldnt mind if he was held off for a jl film. But he would probably show up more likely in superman then jl.

[Mr. Earle]

^ Me too. Imagine Superman, Batman, Wonder-Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter fighting side by side against the White Martians! Or Checkmate! Or the Legion of Doom! Or A.M.A.Z.O! Or Darkseid! Or the Anti-monitor! :woot:
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6994/1264647319675.jpg
(Yay, I finally get to use this image!)

[GreenKToo]

muah ha ha ha. :D

[Kurosawa]

Sorry madam! :woot:

Anyway, I'd rather we get a JL movie than a Legion one.

I'd like both or either, but who knows. Think JLA will happen one day.

[Webhead2006]

oh totally i would love to see jl and legion as films. But we are long from seeing either at this time.

[BH/HHH]

Funnily enough a Legion movie has been on my mind lately. It'd be a very interesting film to do after a trilogy of Superman films. I think it'd be very good film to do to aim at the family market, just make it a fun comic book movie, have them go back in time and pick up Clark when hes 16 and take him to the future, the villain(s) could be the Time Trapper, Suneater, Fatal Five or something (I'm not totally aware of the Legions stories and villains)

[Vaibow]

So we are going to see a new take on superman, or at least, presented in a diferent way that has taken the interest of nolan.

I've thought about what Nolan might want from this - either a stepping stone for people close to him and he doesn't really care for it, but knowing he is god right now at warner, can say what he likes basically and can 'act' as mentor or, he actually beleives this new take has some substance to it - who knows, until something concrete, it's all mind games - but good for boards like this, maybe.

So, let's assume he truly likes this vision, what vision could it be and just how diferent is it from the rest?

Here's how i hope, he views this potential franchise - again this is my own idea and interpretation.

Who is the real person - clark on the farm. Who knows he has powers, those closest to him, Ma, Pa and hopefully Lana.

Clark developes various powers as he progresses into adult hood, maybe his senses are developed radically, he asks questions and it leads to his parents telling him and showing him his capsual, rocket etc.

If you're 16 and get this bombshell, it will screw you over, no matter what up bringing - you'll be asking yourself daily questions, why, who, how, where. You discover you're an alien, living on earth as a visitor, prehaps sole survivor of a distant race, not too dissimilar from earth.

With internet like it is, he could do all the research he wanted, would it lead any where, who would know. He could trace meteor showers, strange sightings around the time he landed.

The material and knowledge given to him by jor el in the form of a hologram, or prehaps computer program/robot will make him ask many questions. Does he use this technology to improve earth? go looking for krypton, discover himself.

So, he decides to take a career in journalism - why? so he knows the scoops? does this mean he is going to stop crime?

Does he work as an investigative reporter, in the form of conspiracies, corrupt governments? finding out who needs the help?

I just feel to find out you're an alien, is such a head screw, it will make you shy, feel alone, search for answers. Clark as a young man will suddenly have bigger fish to fry.

Could you live on earth, seeing all that goes on, actually knowing aliens exist, knowing you are one.

So, i'd like the set up to be this. Clark is mid 20's, has spent many years around earth, soul searching, learning, developing his powers, testing himself, testing humanity even.

He moves to metropolis, at first, in his civilian clothes, he does random feats, but he does not go public, he would rather expose corrupt governments (as a journalist), who are holding back information, on all things, space, technology, you just need to go on youtube to see conspiracy theories to what apparently the government know and are holding back.

He naturally has to keep a low profile, as he delves into seedy government files.

He begins to attract media attention, maybe someone pointing out clark a week later saying that's the guy who saved him from a fire, as example. Which makes him even more shy away - also, he is an alien, does the government have a division out after him, what is his bio genetics made out of?

He is in his fortress and there, he has kryptonian artifacts, a suit worn by his father. He tries it on, and imagining he is on his home planet, begins to fly around the sky, maybe in space - forgetting himself as he imagines he is 'home' when suddenly his senses pick up a distress call. He has no time and appears in his kryptonian out fit, he is exposed to the world and he is known as the super man.

But, hear is my take and i hope Nolan goes with the same. When Superman, in costume, is on screen and in the public eye, the movie goers, i.e the camera, the only shots we get, are of the audiences p.o.v/perspective. We never see superman up close, always through a mobile camera, or camera picture shutter sequence or from behind a crowd - so we see him, how ther world does.

This will make him appear more mysterious, more god like, i guess we will also get caught up in the emotions and hype with the crowd.

Many shots could be filmed through news channel camera's with narative.

There for, the comparisons of clark to superman will be harder, as it won't be so obvious to the audience it's the same actor - obviously we know it is, but we will never see him long enough, or clear enough to go, oh yeah it's henry cavil in a suit, as an example.

There for superman is one character, with how the world see's him.

Clark is also another character, at the planet, juggling a job with sneeking off, then reapearing, slightly flustered - but a more human character than previously portrayed.

Then, clark on farm, amongst his parents, lana, i guess even jimmy could be a close friend. The real clark, i guess, would be like how Brandon Routh appears off screen, as a nice, decent guy, raised on a farm, has morals and is appreciative of all things.

In the 80's, if a u.f.o containing a child landed on earth, would governments know... ofcourse they would how would nolan prepare that story?

It's going to be interesting to see what nolan comes up with.

[Daybreak_st]

Ever read any New Gods comics? Ever study what points Kirby was driving at? My guess would be no. Those characters serve their purpose and they were whacky for a reason.



I'm not gonna debate their merit in the world of comics, but hope they stay away from a new superman film, simply do not fit. We all like certain characters and dislike others, i have zero interest in the New Gods, in any medium. Didn't care for them in the animated series nor in any comic i've read, the Superman/Batman story arc featuring supergirl. So no, haven't read any new god comics, don't want to or plan to. Darkseid himself is a great villain, but his supporting characters, not so much. LIke i said he comes with baggage that i don't think translates well into a live action superman movie. If you want to do a New Gods film, be my guest, but i honestly think it would fail at the box office.

[Mr. Earle]

Personally i think that Darkseid's "baggage" is the one that defines him, sets him apart from other villains and makes him one of the greatest villains in DC. He's not just a bad guy that punches hard *cough*Doomsday*cough*, there is a whole mythology that comes with him. And frankly, the whacky costumes of the NG are one of the reasons i love them so much.

Anyway, different tastes for different people.

[Daybreak_st]

Personally i think that Darkseid's "baggage" is the one that defines him, sets him apart from other villains and makes him one of the greatest villains in DC. He's not just a bad guy that punches hard *cough*Doomsday*cough*, there is a whole mythology that comes with him. And frankly, the whacky costumes of the NG are one of the reasons i love them so much.

Anyway, different tastes for different people.


yeah i see where you're coming from. Just saw a preview of Clash of the Titans, i could see the whole New Gods idea getting that type of big screen treatment, maybe it'd work well. I just don't think it belongs anywhere near a superman movie.

[Young Superman]

If they are not going to do an origin film, then this should be the opening scene of the film.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/CompressedOrigin.jpg

[FlawlessVictory]

^That's cool. Except with all this legal BS are they even allowed to show THAT.

[solidsnake86]

Actually they probably are allowed to show it as long as they don't say any names or take the design characteristics in the comics that the seigels have the rights too.

As for darkseid, he's a concept that I feel just doesn't belong in a superman film because he isn't specifically a superman villain. It would almost be like putting him in green lantern. He's a great villain in the comics but I feel it would be lost on screen in a superman film and just his name would bring on the star wars references (not that other villain names are any better). I definately want to see metallo and parasite before darkseid but thats just me. I think all of us are going to have to agree to disagree but it was a civil argument which is nice to have.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I definitely want to see Metallo. His fight with Superman was my favorite part of Public Enemies.

[Superman Prime]

^That's cool. Except with all this legal BS are they even allowed to show THAT.

They can probably show anything they want as long as they're willing to compensate the family in money, and the family willing to be compensated (which I'm sure they are).

[Webhead2006]

yea hopefully they can use everything. even if we dont get a straight out full blown origin. we need to see some origin stuff to define how the origin is different in this take on the character.

Vai you had some interesting ideas above. i wouldnt mind seeing some of that stuff used.

[BH/HHH]

If they are not going to do an origin film, then this should be the opening scene of the film.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/CompressedOrigin.jpg

That would be sweet :up:

[RachelDawes]

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6994/1264647319675.jpg
(Yay, I finally get to use this image!)

Mr. Earle, do you have a photo for every possible emotion? :funny:

[super-t]

they need to hurry up and release Earth One so i can see it and wish it to be the next movie lol

[BH/HHH]

Whens it out?

[Mr. Earle]

Mr. Earle, do you have a photo for every possible emotion? :funny:
What can i say, i love image macros. :funny:

[SpiderByte]

I think that Nolan will use Smallville for inspiration. I've been watching it, and it really remids me of something Nolan would do with his characters.

[Webhead2006]

its not due out to june i believe?

[Daybreak_st]

I think that Nolan will use Smallville for inspiration. I've been watching it, and it really remids me of something Nolan would do with his characters.

In what way? One thing i do think Smallville gets right is it's tone (on the more comic book inspired episodes at least). It's not too dark although the world he inhabits is more real than say spiderman's was.

[SpiderByte]

exactly. They can get it done right in Smallville, just imagine what they can do on film, with Goyer.

[Ultimate_Superman]

exactly. They can get it done right in Smallville, just imagine what they can do on film, with Goyer.The would be great if Smallville did get it done right. I like the show and all but it is far from perfect and really should be used as a template for the next movie. SV's greatest moments in recent years is the Legion and JSA after that it is pretty much the same old thing. Hell for the most part it has become the Green Arrow show more then anything. If Nolan wants to use a template he should do like he did with Batman Begins and look to the comics and the comic writers and then move from there.

[super-t]

in september :(

[Daybreak_st]

The would be great if Smallville did get it done right. I like the show and all but it is far from perfect and really should be used as a template for the next movie. SV's greatest moments in recent years is the Legion and JSA after that it is pretty much the same old thing. Hell for the most part it has become the Green Arrow show more then anything. If Nolan wants to use a template he should do like he did with Batman Begins and look to the comics and the comic writers and then move from there.


Actually Smallville's done a lot of things right. It has 3 primary problems, none of which would affect a big screen movie:

1) Editorial Mandate - No flights no tights, can't show superman or the iconic costume.

2)Budget - you can only do so much on a TV show budget, they do great with most of the visual effects, even crafting a new look for heat vision and x-ray vision, and giving us a taste for what it feels like to move as clark does. But most of the lame fights on this show, things like doomsday etc, i think may easily boil down to budget.

3) Long Drawn Out storylines - this has result in anticlimatic plots, filler episodes, and poor character development.

None of those 3 would effect a movie.

Now what has Smallville gotten right?

1) The Tone - it feels like a real world metropolis w/o being too realistic if that makes sense, you can see superpowered people inhabiting the world w/o if feeling silly. It also isn't quite as over the top as say spiderman 3 was. I think it could fit into the IronMan type world if it had better effects.

2) Drawing from entire 70 year character history rather than on specific era. A lot has actually been taken from the silver age (various forms of kryptonite, metropolis and smallville being near, the names of Zod's disciples and his wife faora, the version of metallo, etc.)

3) Nice Live action versions of Superman villains. such as brainiac, metallo, (best examples). Also making the Luthor's scholars was great. I could see a movie luthor being a mix bw Michael Rosenbaum and Lionel Luthor.

4) Using the Kents as a sounding board for clark (primarily in earlier episodes of the series)

5) Making a clark a 3 dimensional character, who the audience can relate to.

6) The Lois and Clark dynamic, which may not be as good as Terri and Dean, but at least is setup in a way that allows them witty banter, good interaction, and a little romance.


These are just the things i could think of off the top of my head. This same appoach at least in part would work well for a film.

[Webhead2006]

those are some good points on the show day, and yea the show isnt perfect. No show ever is. But from the stuff they have done well i have enjoyed it for the past 9 yrs and cant wait to see how their 10th yr goes. As for next superman film. There is so much they can do with tone, scope, and look and feel for the world and the characters within it. Cant wait to see what the nolans/goyer will have in store for us fans.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I really dont see why people have a problem with Doomsday, I think he is an interesting character with an interesting and sympathetic background, but what does make him interesting is that he is a mindless monstor, bent on destruction, thats why he is sush a good foil for Superman, he is the opposite of him.

And lets be honest, seeing Lois, etc slowly come to the realisation during their fight that Doomsday is stronger than Superman would make for some great tension. I dont want the death of Superman, that would be too much, but I want to see Superman bleeding from the mouth, and giving everything he has time and again to beat this unstoppable monstor, similar to the fight in Doomsday.

Then, at the beginning of the 3rd movie, have Darksied find Doomsdays seemingly lifeless body drifting in space, it is brought to Apokolips, Doomsday wakes up, Darkseid mentions a previous meeting when Doomsday beat him, but Darkseid takes Doomsday down and actually kills Doomsday, setting up Darkseid as one hell of a threat to not only Superman but Earth as well.

With Brainiac and Luthor in the first movie, this would be my perfect Superman trilogy.

[Mr. Earle]

I really dont see why people have a problem with Doomsday, I think he is an interesting character with an interesting and sympathetic background, but what does make him interesting is that he is a mindless monstor, bent on destruction, thats why he is sush a good foil for Superman, he is the opposite of him.

You re obviously talking about Smallville Doomsday because he is nothing like that in the comics.

[solidsnake86]

Doomsday's more of a plot device then an actual villain, heck he doesn't even talk, that makes for a very boring villain.

[Webhead2006]

well they could make him talk like jl did. Plus with the right story behind the character they could turn him into a bigger threat and be more then just a mindless monster.

[Willi Berg]

It's hard to imagine what Nolan will do with Superman. It's hard to imagine him doing something straightforward like Superman fighting a giant monster. I could see him doing something like the people vs. alien angle. Or maybe exploring metahumans or, if they do use Brainiac, stuff about mind control or something like that.

I also wonder about stuff like how much he will change the suit. Would people be happy if he did.

I too would like a Legion of Super-Heroes movie. More futuristic, more sci-fi, planets at war etc. but yes, it is looking too far ahead.

[Willi Berg]

Also, with Green Lantern coming out there might be a resistance to too much repetition, like Doomsday being too much like Legion, even Milton Fine with Brainiac could be written similarly to Hector Hammond and Legion. Although Nolan and co. would likely have a take that would be different.

[Daybreak_st]

It's hard to imagine what Nolan will do with Superman. It's hard to imagine him doing something straightforward like Superman fighting a giant monster. I could see him doing something like the people vs. alien angle. Or maybe exploring metahumans or, if they do use Brainiac, stuff about mind control or something like that.

I also wonder about stuff like how much he will change the suit. Would people be happy if he did.

I too would like a Legion of Super-Heroes movie. More futuristic, more sci-fi, planets at war etc. but yes, it is looking too far ahead.


That would be a very interesting approach. Here's what i posted on the Lex Luthor section:

I'd have him start the film as corporate lex. After brainiac's invasion in the first film people are weary and concerned, The World as a whole feels we as humans need to be prepared for whatever comes next. There would be a schism in the populace, some turning against superman viewing him as just another representative of alien superiority. Lex luthor would start a political campaign on the grounds of human advancement. His message, that we don't need some Alien demigod to protect us, we can't trust him, we as humans need to plot our own destiny, with him to lead the way.

A subplot is the formation of Cadmus and a superhuman arms race. Both the government, led by sam lane, and lex corp are racing to create superhumans. Something like that could work for the second two films of the series. The culmination of the 2nd film would end with lex becoming president.

[GreenKToo]

I'd like to see this Lex controll all of the media in not only Metropolis, but most all others in America as well, except for the DP.
Lex uses ''his'' media and intergang to turn the public against Superman, blaming Superman for everything from the increase in crime to global warming.
It gets so bad that normal citizens start throwing bottles, etc, at Superman whenever they see him in public.

The staff at the DP know the truth about Lex of course and are a thorn in his side.
I'd even go as far as have jimmy be this superhacker or something. He hacks into Lex controlled broadcasts to tell the truth about what kinda person Lex really is, and that Superman is a friend to be trusted, not feared.

About then is when Brainiac arrives and really makes life on Earth a hell.
When Superman takes on Brainaic and protects the people from him, thats when the public really starts trusting him and distrusting Lex.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You re obviously talking about Smallville Doomsday because he is nothing like that in the comics.

I havent seen or heard anything about Smallville Doomsday, I am talking about the comics one, the being that was killed over and over again to be the ultimate machine of destruction, a baby that was constantly killed just days after it was born by a cruel scientist on Krypton.

[Bad Superman]

I'd like to see this Lex controll all of the media in not only Metropolis, but most all others in America as well, except for the DP.
Lex uses ''his'' media and intergang to turn the public against Superman, blaming Superman for everything from the increase in crime to global warming.
It gets so bad that normal citizens start throwing bottles, etc, at Superman whenever they see him in public.

The staff at the DP know the truth about Lex of course and are a thorn in his side.
I'd even go as far as have jimmy be this superhacker or something. He hacks into Lex controlled broadcasts to tell the truth about what kinda person Lex really is, and that Superman is a friend to be trusted, not feared.

About then is when Brainiac arrives and really makes life on Earth a hell.
When Superman takes on Brainaic and protects the people from him, thats when the public really starts trusting him and distrusting Lex.

I would like to see this but I wouldn't go as far as people throwing bottles at Superman, but looking at him with distrust and a bit of fear. I also like your idea about the DP being a thorn on Lex's side by being Pro-Superman after a possible "Lois Interview" scene.

[SpiderByte]

I think the tenth season of Smallville will be Clark taking the final step into Superman.

As for Braniac, I was wondering: How should he get to Earth? Maybe Darkseid sends him? Or does he just arrive, like tons of other villains?

[solidsnake86]

I'd rather not have darkseid send him, it makes no sense. I don't like the idea of brainiac being darkseids pawn. For a guy whose supposed to be the most intelligent being in the universe having darkseid send him waters down his character.

You could always have brainiac searching for kal-el if you take the route that he destroy's civilizations and wants to make sure he's the only one with there knowledge. Brainiac likes to control things, having a kryptonian on earth with the ability to share krytpon's knowledge would probably piss him off.

[Daybreak_st]

These are some of the thoughts i wrote regarding brainiac in the writers workshop:


Also as far as motivation for someone like Brainaic, i don't think he was Kryptonian in nature but sought out the planets vast information, as it was one of the most technologically advanced civilizations ever known.

He once sought to absorb its knowledge and destroy it as he'd done countless other world's only to discover this shining light in the universe was already destroyed. He's tried to find any trace of the Kryptonian outpost but b/c of the cloaking technology he can't locate them. He's sent out countless probes in search of anything Kryptonian. Eventually one probe lands on earth and finds Clark's ship, (Clark is a teenager at this point) and tries to remove the key (which will both lead it to the fortress and unlock its secrets). Clark has an altercation with the robot and destroys it, but recovers the key and begins his journey to discover his heritage. The robot is recovered by Lex Luthor, reverse engineered and eventually reactivated; it broadcasts its location to Brainiac's ship in space, thus leading Braininac to earth.

Obviously if he's the main villain in the reboot then this idea would need to be modified, but i think the basic idea of a probe being sent to track anything kryptonian in nature discovering clark's ship then broadcasting back to brainiac could work.

the way i wrote it the probe fighting clark is only a tease of what's to come in the sequel. the first movie would focus on the fallout of the probe being reverse engineered by lex and used as the model for metallo. Then when probe is reactived towards the end of the film it broadcasts to brainiac in deep space. Movie ends with his ship coming to life and heading for earth.

[SrsBsns]

I wouldn't mind seeing Doomsday at all. His tone would perfectly fit Nolan's style. Nolan could have a really cool, dramatic scene where Superman thinks that he's finally destroyed Doomsday only to see him rise again. That's pretty much when Superman realizes Doomsday isn't just another threat; that he can only die one way one time.

Also, I'm sure Nolan/Goyer is going have lots of very subtle hints and foreshadows of things to come in the next film in terms of plot. You just have to REALLY watch.

[Webhead2006]

all good ideas guys, i would love to see a variety of them happen. As for nolans on board with superman i am sure we are probably going to get the scifi/fantasy stuff we want and good costumes/fights. Nolan knows superman is a different type of character then batman. So he will probably treat the character in the correct manner.

[SuperDaniel]

LMAO. Check the front page of the hype. Singer actually admitted SR sucked. WELL, not in this terms but he did say his personality didn`t match with Superman as it did with X-men. LMAO.

[SpiderByte]

At least he's honest. I don't hold SR against Singer personally, I just thought he could do better.

I'm happy he's back on the X-Men though. He gave DC a shot, didn't quite work for him. It's good to have him back for Marvel :D

[Crook]

LMAO. Check the front page of the hype. Singer actually admitted SR sucked. WELL, not in this terms but he did say his personality didn`t match with Superman as it did with X-men. LMAO.
Pfft...sounds like incredible backtracking to me. Someone pull up the interview he gave where he specifically cited his upbringing and isolation as a youth as strong relations for his bond with Superman.

[SuperDaniel]

And what the hell does that kind of upbringing has to do with Superman? I don`t see Superman as having an isolated and lonely youth, really. He always had Lana Lang, Pete Ross, his parents. That`s why I never liked the Abrams or pre-crisis take on Smallville where the Kents die. Superman, to me, is the kind of character that needs to have a different childhood from most tragic characters. It should be a very happy childhood. Batman or Spider-man are the ones who are lonely, tragic and isolated. Superman is about optimism. That`s why SR sucked!

He should`ve never left the X-men. He is basically responsible for the reboot of 2 franchises. X-men and Supes.

[Crook]

Well, I don't necessarily disagree with his statements. There are themes of isolation all throughout his history, it just doesn't overtake the mood of the mythos.

He is still a lone alien amongst a different species, and he never knew his biological parents, or the culture his lineage is from. So yeah, there's certainly tragedy there.

[SuperDaniel]

Bah. It`s not that tragic because he doesn`t remember them. He is not loney at all, IMO. He has a lot of friends, Lois, etc. **** isolation and loneliness. Leave that to Batman and Marvel characters. I want my Superman to be optimistic and his life and acts should reflect that. Not someone who is all whinny, spies on people, can`t have the love of his life because she`s married to somebody else, is a homewrecker. Well, SINGER GOT EVERYTHING WRONG, IMO and thank god HE IS OUT AND WILL NEVER COME BACK.

[GreenKToo]

Is this this first time that singer has admitted (sorta) that he didn't do SR right?

[batman44]

All future DC movies will be in 3D.
http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/03/18/all-warner-bros-tentpole-movies-will-be-released-in-3d/?utm_content=Film+News+From+StayBank&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=StayBank&utm_source=http%3A%2F%2Fstaybank.com&utm_term=Film

Who didn't see that coming?

[Lighthouse]

And I'm sure it'll be the crappy 8-week post 3-D that's being done with almost all movies at the present. If the studios keep up this bad looking 3D, audiences aren't going to want to pay the extra premium price anymore. They actually need to start filming these films in 3D like Avatar if they want it to be more than a fad.

[Anita18]

LMAO. Check the front page of the hype. Singer actually admitted SR sucked. WELL, not in this terms but he did say his personality didn`t match with Superman as it did with X-men. LMAO.
Singer doesn't strike me as a dumb guy. (Directorially unsure, most certainly, but dumb, no.) I'm sure he felt pressure, if only from himself, to do Superman a certain way and didn't quite get it as much as he wanted to. Sometimes a project just gets away from you.

Aaaah, what can I say, I thought both of his X-men movies were overrated anyway. :funny: Still ridiculously love Usual Suspects and Valkyrie wasn't bad either.

All future DC movies will be in 3D.
http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/03/18/all-warner-bros-tentpole-movies-will-be-released-in-3d/?utm_content=Film+News+From+StayBank&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=StayBank&utm_source=http%3A%2F%2Fstaybank.com&utm_term=Film

Who didn't see that coming?
Can I request, if BB3 is filmed in IMAX, to have that in 2-D IMAX as well as 3-D? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[Superman Prime]

Singer was talking like a politician in that article. I agree with him in that he's much better equipped for the X-Men franchise. The two he directed were great films (they were my introduction to X-Men, responsible for getting me interested in all of the characters). I wish him luck in the future.

[Kurosawa]

And what the hell does that kind of upbringing has to do with Superman? I don`t see Superman as having an isolated and lonely youth, really. He always had Lana Lang, Pete Ross, his parents. That`s why I never liked the Abrams or pre-crisis take on Smallville where the Kents die. Superman, to me, is the kind of character that needs to have a different childhood from most tragic characters. It should be a very happy childhood. Batman or Spider-man are the ones who are lonely, tragic and isolated. Superman is about optimism. That`s why SR sucked!

He should`ve never left the X-men. He is basically responsible for the reboot of 2 franchises. X-men and Supes.

Superman had tragedy in his life for the first 50 years of his existence...which were also by FAR the most successful and relevant years of his existence. Byrne meant well, but by making Krypton a non factor and keeping the Kents alive he took all pathos from Superman's life. He had it too easy, his life was too perfect. A person with no pain and no loss is boring and unrelatable, not even human really. Great writers like Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Elliot S! Maggin and Grant Morrision all understand this. Superman is about optimism but it's about loss as well. It's part of what made him human. And overcoming his losses is part of what makes him a great hero. The biggest difference between Pre-and Post Crisis Superman wasn't power level or origins or no Superboy, or even the Superman/Clark identity switch-it's the fact that Post-Crisis Supes was never hurt emotionally. He never knew the pain of losing his homeworld since he felt no connection to it. He never felt the loss and the guilt of losing his adoptive parents and not being able to save them. He had Lois-basically his life was too perfect. It's not something anyone can relate to. And like many of Byrne's other mistakes, they have fixed this now in the comics as well, as Pa Kent has died and Krypton matters to Superman again. So now Superman has some degree of loss in his life, and that's a good thing.

As for Singer, his X-Men movies are overrated. They've yet to make an actual X-Men movie, just Wolverine 1-4.

[Superman Prime]

As for Singer, his X-Men movies are overrated. They've yet to make an actual X-Men movie, just Wolverine 1-4.

Besides his origin film, the first three weren't only about Wolverine. The approach seems to have been to introduce the viewer to the universe through his eyes. The other characters had screen time, we got to know who they were, and their personalities as dictated by Singer's interpretation of them. Like I said it was enough to get me interested to learn more about Scott, Jean, Xavier, Magneto, etc. etc.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

All future DC movies will be in 3D.
http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/03/18/all-warner-bros-tentpole-movies-will-be-released-in-3d/?utm_content=Film+News+From+StayBank&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=StayBank&utm_source=http%3A%2F%2Fstaybank.com&utm_term=Film

Who didn't see that coming?
Alright, Superman I get. It doesn't really strike me as a 3D movie, but I get it. Batman on the other hand, makes no sense. It's just not the type of character or story that would match well with 3D.

[FlawlessVictory]

"I genuinely like the people, and my personality meshes more with this universe than it does with other universes, I think; I see that now at this point," Singer said, no doubt referring to his defection to the DC Comics universe to make the oddly lifeless 2006 movie "Superman Returns." "I feel a connection to the X-Men characters and also the ensemble nature of the films. If you look at 'Usual Suspects'' or my last film, 'Valkyrie,' I feel especially comfortable with ensemble juggling. In the space between all the characters you can disguise a central thought that's hidden in all the discourse. I missed that with the singular relationship story of Superman. And, well, it always gives you something to cut to..."

I find it hard to believe that people will still be able to defend SR even after reading its director is admitting his personality wasn't an ideal match for the character. Although yes, as Crook pointed, certainly there is backtracking going on. But this is how he feels now. SR was a misfire. He should have never left the X-Men franchise. Sucks to think how great his X3 could have been instead of getting what we got and on top of that being stuck with SR. :csad:

[solidsnake86]

You guys are still talking about SR when in the flash thread someone linked to an article which says that (its a rumor for now) it may be coming out in 2012 with batman. Does anyone think they would put superman in the same year as those 2 and if flash does indeed come out in 2012 are we looking at a 2013 release for superman.

[CrazyDavey]

Superman Returns rocked!



.... or at least, I liked it... :(

[GreenKToo]

I think this new film could be the one that the majority will like.

[FCEEVIPER]

Superman Returns rocked!



.... or at least, I liked it... :(
Ditto.

[Zorex]

I was talking about Returns with a couple of coworkers yesterday (my company worked on some of the marketing materials for the film), and while the opinions I heard were positive (almost tentatively so), the viewpoint I offered was -- It's not a bad film. It's just not a very good Superman film. This seemed to make sense to those I was talking with (to a certain extent... I was assuredly the fanboyiest one among them :p).

This is what any comic book film struggles with... being a good movie, but also being a good adaptation of the source material. You've got to please general audiences, but also please the (IMO) much harder-to-please audience of dedicated fans. Fans know their ****... they're familiar with the material, in multiple incarnations, and are very demanding with the quality of representation of the material that they love. General audiences, I think, are less high-maintenance, but they'll still know pretty easily if they enjoyed the movie for what it was.

I think Nolan and Co. have certainly proven how to accomplish this, at least with one hero. They say they know the genre and how to make it work, but hopefully they really understand yet how difficult Superman can be, and don't get hung up one way or the other, between trying to make a good film and trying to make a good Superman film.

[Zorex]

Double post.

[Anita18]

I find it hard to believe that people will still be able to defend SR even after reading its director is admitting his personality wasn't an ideal match for the character. Although yes, as Crook pointed, certainly there is backtracking going on. But this is how he feels now. SR was a misfire. He should have never left the X-Men franchise. Sucks to think how great his X3 could have been instead of getting what we got and on top of that being stuck with SR. :csad:
I don't think a director should decide whether he should do a movie by how much his personality meshes with the protagonist. This is a work project, not online dating. :oldrazz: Maybe this is how Bryan Singer needs to work, but I don't think it's an expectation that should be heaped on all directors.

I still think it was more of a project getting away from him rather than his personality not being enough of a match. He had some good ideas, it's just the execution really could have been better.

[Dark Knight]

And I'm sure it'll be the crappy 8-week post 3-D that's being done with almost all movies at the present. If the studios keep up this bad looking 3D, audiences aren't going to want to pay the extra premium price anymore. They actually need to start filming these films in 3D like Avatar if they want it to be more than a fad.







I do agree with this and I expect this Nolan guided and produced Supes film to be shot in 100% 3D format like Avatar was.

[Dark Knight]

I find it hard to believe that people will still be able to defend SR even after reading its director is admitting his personality wasn't an ideal match for the character. Although yes, as Crook pointed, certainly there is backtracking going on. But this is how he feels now. SR was a misfire. He should have never left the X-Men franchise. Sucks to think how great his X3 could have been instead of getting what we got and on top of that being stuck with SR. :csad:






The Nolan(s) and Goyer will execute what Singer should have executed, but didn't.....

[Dark Knight]

You guys are still talking about SR when in the flash thread someone linked to an article which says that (its a rumor for now) it may be coming out in 2012 with batman. Does anyone think they would put superman in the same year as those 2 and if flash does indeed come out in 2012 are we looking at a 2013 release for superman.






It would be cool to see Batman 3 in Summer 2012 and Flash in Winter 2012, with Supes in Summer 2013. It would also be cool to see the Supes film Winter 2012 if possible but I doubt it.

Especially if the Supes film is going to be shot in 3D. The Production and fliming will take longer.

[Webhead2006]

i said for a long time myself i wish singer never did SR and stuck with xmen, he was in my opinion better suited to the xmen world then superman's world. So thats my thought on that. And as i said in the 3d thread, sure i like 3d like most people do. But yea its all about how its being used and all that. If its just converting in post without a care that isnt the right way to go. Either it should be shot with 3d cameras like avatar/tron 2 or the director is working with the editors in post for 3d look of things and all that. So being the statements of all future dc films 2011 and on we will just have to see if it will be shot in 3d or post work. We just dont know yet since the likes of batman 3, superman reboot, and if the flash is next up are not even in production stages yet. So for all we know they could be shot with 3d.

Yea as for the schedule we will just have to see where things fall. ITs pretty sure batman 3 will be july 2012 deal. That is a good spot for batman. As for flash if he was to come out in 2012 i could see maybe early spring april-june release. As for superman since we know it has to be in any form of production in 2011. either it will come out in late 2012 or held off to summer 2013 release.

[Dark Knight]

i said for a long time myself i wish singer never did SR and stuck with xmen, he was in my opinion better suited to the xmen world then superman's world. So thats my thought on that. And as i said in the 3d thread, sure i like 3d like most people do. But yea its all about how its being used and all that. If its just converting in post without a care that isnt the right way to go. Either it should be shot with 3d cameras like avatar/tron 2 or the director is working with the editors in post for 3d look of things and all that. So being the statements of all future dc films 2011 and on we will just have to see if it will be shot in 3d or post work. We just dont know yet since the likes of batman 3, superman reboot, and if the flash is next up are not even in production stages yet. So for all we know they could be shot with 3d.

Yea as for the schedule we will just have to see where things fall. ITs pretty sure batman 3 will be july 2012 deal. That is a good spot for batman. As for flash if he was to come out in 2012 i could see maybe early spring april-june release. As for superman since we know it has to be in any form of production in 2011. either it will come out in late 2012 or held off to summer 2013 release.






It would also be awesome to see The Flash film be shot in 3D.

[Superman Prime]

. . . So it's for certain that there's going to be a Flash movie?

[Mr. Earle]

I don't think a director should decide whether he should do a movie by how much his personality meshes with the protagonist. This is a work project, not online dating. :oldrazz: Maybe this is how Bryan Singer needs to work, but I don't think it's an expectation that should be heaped on all directors.

I still think it was more of a project getting away from him rather than his personality not being enough of a match. He had some good ideas, it's just the execution really could have been better.
I agree 100%.

[Webhead2006]

prime its been the likely thing for awhile now. Since compared to say ww/aquaman they dont have any real development going on those characters. Flash they have had johns and some other writer who name i dont recall right now been working on script/treatment for well over a yr now. So it seems flash it the one with the most development at this time and could easily be film ready in next 2 yrs or so.

[Superman Prime]

That's a shame. I would have rather seen WW on the big screen before Flash.

[batman44]

You guys are still talking about SR when in the flash thread someone linked to an article which says that (its a rumor for now) it may be coming out in 2012 with batman. Does anyone think they would put superman in the same year as those 2 and if flash does indeed come out in 2012 are we looking at a 2013 release for superman.

I was thinking about this myself. If WB are indeed trying to get The Flash for 2012, I think it'll be safe to say Superman gets 2013. That date would also give Nolan more freedom to be involved with the movie also I think.

[Webhead2006]

well yea 2013 would be a nice open and free slot for superman there isnt any big films from what i know due out for 2013 season yet right? though the whole thing with the legal stuff and having to be in some stage of production in 2011 and the whole losing the part of the copy right in 2013 if shuster's heirs win at court in 2013. IT would probably be better for 2012 for superman and 2013 for flash.

As for flash i do hope it will happen and they will do him to justice. he is a cool character and there is alot they can play with for him and his world. As for ww and others sure i would love to see them in films too right now. but with the whole female superhero films do poorly and all that. ww isnt likely to get moving for another few years. Unless they get some good writers/producers on board for it since silver was given the boot(finally).

[solidsnake86]

In terms of the legal stuff they have to be in production by 2011 but does that mean actual production or could it be pre-production. Second, if it meant actual production, and as some of you are saying shooting in 3d takes longer, they would probably have to start production sometime late in 2011 and that would avoid the whole legal problem.

I would imagine the flash is further along in terms of script then superman, but at the same time goyer seems like a fast writer, especially if he already has the story outline. I guess it will come down to how involved Chris Nolan is, if he's hands on then were definately looking at 2013 for superman.

[Maze]

Remember last month when we told you good folks about unconfirmed rumors of Christopher Nolan directing a Justice League movie after Batman 3 and the new Superman reboot are released?

Music Television had a very brief chat with Nolan at ShoWest and said subject was brought up. Reportedly a cat got the Batman helmer (and now Superman producer)'s tongue with his sole response:

"I can't really talk about other things."

Nolan was previously about as anti Justice League as you can get. But to hear this now from him is interesting - to say the least.



http://iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8786:christopher-nolan-plays-coy-on-justice-league&catid=41:news&Itemid=71

[Lighthouse]

http://iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8786:christopher-nolan-plays-coy-on-justice-league&catid=41:news&Itemid=71

I don't really take this response as anything. Considering how annoyingly notorious MTV is at asking these kinds of questions, I think Nolan just really wanted to focus on the movie that he's doing right now, and not some projects in their earliest phases.

[Maze]

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/03/19/christopher-nolan-superman-justice-league/

[batman44]

Nolan's expression and tone seems to hint that he's thought or knows something about it.

[Zor-El]

Yeah I think WB has a gameplan similar to Marvel's now and Nolan is in on it.

Obviously it's impossible to read Nolan's mind-- but I read into "I can't really talk about other things." as meaning there's a plan for the DCU on film, but Nolan may not be the one to bring it together. So he can only speak for himself-- his movies will probably stand alone, but that doesn't mean someone else can't come along and merge them.

Then again, with a statement that vague, it's hard to tell if he meant anything at all!
But I do think he's in on whatever's going on with DC films.

[Webhead2006]

yea they probably want to combine things once batman 3/superman reboot are off the ground and all that, and if flash/gl does well/. Then maybe they would do justice league with just thoses characters already out and about and bring in ww there. or who knows if/when jl will happen. All i want is all these characters to be taken seriously and done in a faithful manner.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I wouldn't mind if they had a new Batman in a JL movie or no Batman at all.

[The Batman]

superman had tragedy in his life for the first 50 years of his existence...which were also by far the most successful and relevant years of his existence. Byrne meant well, but by making krypton a non factor and keeping the kents alive he took all pathos from superman's life. He had it too easy, his life was too perfect. A person with no pain and no loss is boring and unrelatable, not even human really. Great writers like neil gaiman, alan moore, elliot s! Maggin and grant morrision all understand this. Superman is about optimism but it's about loss as well. It's part of what made him human. And overcoming his losses is part of what makes him a great hero. The biggest difference between pre-and post crisis superman wasn't power level or origins or no superboy, or even the superman/clark identity switch-it's the fact that post-crisis supes was never hurt emotionally. He never knew the pain of losing his homeworld since he felt no connection to it. He never felt the loss and the guilt of losing his adoptive parents and not being able to save them. He had lois-basically his life was too perfect. It's not something anyone can relate to. And like many of byrne's other mistakes, they have fixed this now in the comics as well, as pa kent has died and krypton matters to superman again. So now superman has some degree of loss in his life, and that's a good thing.

As for singer, his x-men movies are overrated. They've yet to make an actual x-men movie, just wolverine 1-4.

Superman was supposed to be more interesting post crisis, but he got progressively boring as time wore on. As you said, they've gotten rid of many post crisis elements over the years, whereas with Batman, Frank Miller's Year One is still the standard origin.

Then again, unlike Bryne with Superman, Miller chose to honor the previous 40years of Batman instead of discarding it.

[DavidTyler]

Superman had tragedy in his life for the first 50 years of his existence...which were also by FAR the most successful and relevant years of his existence. Byrne meant well, but by making Krypton a non factor

Contrary to what you're stating here ... Byrne DID NOT make Krypton a non-factor. Some fo the best World of Krypton stories I've read were Byrne. I loved how he showed Krypton's past and how vibrant it was. Juxtaposed against what Krypton became we get a real sense of it's history. How it went from the bare-chested emotionally rich society to the emotionally repressed dystopia at the end gives me that same sense I had watching the STNG episode 'The Inner Light'. And the point of Byrne's Krypton was that Clark was freed from it's cold, dispassionate ways to grow as a man. In essence, to discover the Krypton it was before it allowed itself to become constrictive and aloof. I always thought it was silly for him to use expressions like 'Great Rao' when it wouldn't have been things he would have casually said growing up. Imagine him sitting in class and coming out with that. He'd be more likely to use the same expression we would.

and keeping the Kents alive he took all pathos from Superman's life.

Superman is NOT Batman. His life doesn't need to be driven by tradgedy..... and, again, it was the powers that be that were the deciding factor in whether the Kents survived or not. The most popular element from the Superboy books were the Kents. The decision was made to keep them around in his adult life because there was no longer a 'Superboy' in continuity. BTW, before we debate whether that character was necessary, I always felt that they were 'cute' reads but ultimately robbed the adult character of experiencing things for the first time.

And, personally, I like that the Kents are around in his adult life. They're great characters and have a lot of uses: They give Clark a place to drop his guard and just be himself... doubts and all; They make a handy tool for exposition - say, for instance, allowing a reader to catch up with the plot - or - letting us inside Clark's head.

He had it too easy, his life was too perfect. A person with no pain and no loss is boring and unrelatable, not even human really. Great writers like Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Elliot S! Maggin and Grant Morrision all understand this. Superman is about optimism but it's about loss as well. It's part of what made him human. And overcoming his losses is part of what makes him a great hero.

Again - I disagree. I feel what makes him a great hero was his decision to become that powerful protector and to stand for something. He could have grown up in any kind of way and still arrived at that. It's fortunate from a character development POV that he had the Kent's who instilled in him - not only their values - but a sense of what it's like to be regular people.

The biggest difference between Pre-and Post Crisis Superman wasn't power level or origins or no Superboy, or even the Superman/Clark identity switch-it's the fact that Post-Crisis Supes was never hurt emotionally. .

If you were to stop reading the books with the end of the Man Of Steel reintroduction I'd agree with you.... but.... I ask you to reread the Exile In Space arc. It was his wake-up call and I would say he experienced some emotional pain (albeit that it was something he inflicted on himself). It was something so devastating that he feld he couldn't go on being Superman and literally exiled himself.

He never knew the pain of losing his homeworld since he felt no connection to it. .

The original Siegel/Shuster run didn't dwell on Krypton either. Superman seemed to function fairly well then.

He never felt the loss and the guilt of losing his adoptive parents and not being able to save them. He had Lois-basically his life was too perfect. It's not something anyone can relate to. And like many of Byrne's other mistakes, they have fixed this now in the comics as well, as Pa Kent has died and Krypton matters to Superman again. So now Superman has some degree of loss in his life, and that's a good thing.

As for Singer, his X-Men movies are overrated. They've yet to make an actual X-Men movie, just Wolverine 1-4.

K, love you like a brother, but you have to see that you're POV is really just that and that there are many of us who feel otherwise.... and, like you, I didn't grow up with the movies but - the comix.

[Mr. Earle]

I love how Kurosawa makes assumptions about the current comics that simply arent true.

1) Superman doesnt have a connection to Krypton.
Excuse me? Did he have one pre-Crisis? In any case you should read the Superman|Batman arc with Kara's arrival to Earth and what it meant to him. It shows how alone he feels, being the only survivor of his planet in a world that he is forced to hide his nature in order to have a normal life. Being the lone survivor of his planet pains him terribly. Even crappy Smallville showed how much Krypton meant to him when he risked everything to contact that scientist played by Reeves who could talk to him about Krypton.

2) Superman has never had a loss in his life.
Yes lets give every superhero a dead parent. As if being the lone survivor of a whole planet wasnt enough. In any case i dont think that Jonathan's death defined him like uncle Ben's murder defined Spiderman or the Wayne murders defined Batman, so removing that from canon makes no big difference to me.

3) Superman has a perfect life.
Byrne making him a jock in high school was a terrible decision which they are fixing now. But apart from that, i dont think his life is perfect. Just from the top of my head, look at how he and Lois cant have children.

[ck1777]

I love how Kurosawa makes assumptions about the current comics that simply arent true.

1) Superman doesnt have a connection to Krypton.
Excuse me? Did he have one pre-Crisis? In any case you should read the Superman|Batman arc with Kara's arrival to Earth and what it meant to him. It shows how alone he feels, being the only survivor of his planet in a world that he is forced to hide his nature in order to have a normal life. Being the lone survivor of his planet pains him terribly. Even crappy Smallville showed how much Krypton meant to him when he risked everything to contact that scientist played by Reeves who could talk to him about Krypton.

2) Superman has never had a loss in his life.
Yes lets give every superhero a dead parent. As if being the lone survivor of a whole planet wasnt enough. In any case i dont think that Jonathan's death defined him like uncle Ben's murder defined Spiderman or the Wayne murders defined Batman, so removing that from canon makes no big difference to me.

3) Superman has a perfect life.
Byrne making him a jock in high school was a terrible decision which they are fixing now. But apart from that, i dont think his life is perfect. Just from the top of my head, look at how he and Lois cant have children.


I love how Mr. Earle didn't know what Post-Crisis Superman was a month or two ago, and now he's a comic expert!

Seriously dude Kurosawa said a few pages back that he likes the CURRENT Superman Comics. What he didn't like was JOHN BYRNES MAN OF STEEL. I know you're a Superman comic book expert now that you've discovered wikipedia, but POST CRISIS Superman was from 1986 to around 2004. After 2005 It's been a mixture of both Pre/Post Crisis. So the current comics that Kurosawa says he likes has nothing to do with Byrnes' MOS.

For the record I agree with alot of what Kurosawa is saying, but I thought MOS was pretty good. I definitely like the last 5 years of Superman comics more than most Pre and Post Crisis stories, and I hope Goyer and Nolan agree!

And since this is a thread about the movie, I'd just like to say that all I want is really good Superman film. I don't care if it's pre/post crisis, the color of the costume etc, all I want is a good film and with the team of Goyer and Nolan I think we're in good hands! Hopefully.

[Mr. Earle]

I love how Mr. Earle didn't know what Post-Crisis Superman was a month or two ago, and now he's a comic expert!

Seriously dude Kurosawa said a few pages back that he likes the CURRENT Superman Comics. What he didn't like was JOHN BYRNES MAN OF STEEL. I know you're a Superman comic book expert now that you've discovered wikipedia, but POST CRISIS Superman was from 1986 to around 2004. After 2005 It's been a mixture of both Pre/Post Crisis. So the current comics that Kurosawa says he likes has nothing to do with Byrnes' MOS.

For the record I agree with alot of what Kurosawa is saying, but I thought MOS was pretty good. I definitely like the last 5 years of Superman comics more than most Pre and Post Crisis stories, and I hope Goyer and Nolan agree!

And since this is a thread about the movie, I'd just like to say that all I want is really good Superman film. I don't care if it's pre/post crisis, the color of the costume etc, all I want is a good film and with the team of Goyer and Nolan I think we're in good hands! Hopefully.1) Why dont you let him respond instead of playing his lawyer?
2) I remember arguing with you before and i remember how irritating you were, so this will be my final response to you. I dont want to go through the same ordeal.
3) I know that currently they re mixing Pre and Post Crisis into a better superman version, so why is Kurosawa so furious about an outdated version? It is beyond me.
4) Even so, he still thinks that in current comics Superman is a laughing stock, he has a perfect life, that he jobs to Batman and that he has no connection to Krypton. Which are all wrong.

[ck1777]

1) Why dont you let him respond instead of playing his lawyer?
2) I remember arguing with you before and i remember how irritating you were, so this will be my final response to you. I dont want to go through the same ordeal.
3) I know that currently they re mixing Pre and Post Crisis into a better superman version, so why is Kurosawa so furious about an outdated version? It is beyond me.
4) Even so, he still thinks that in current comics Superman is a laughing stock, he has a perfect life, that he jobs to Batman and that he has no connection to Krypton. Which are all wrong.

You know what's irritating, check all of your posts all around the hype and you'll find that 90% of them are telling people how they don't know anything about characters and they should read more comics and blah blah. Be honest, how long have you been reading comics? Couple of months?

[SpiderByte]

You know what's irritating, check all of your posts all around the hype and you'll find that 90% of them are telling people how they don't know anything about characters and they should read more comics and blah blah. Be honest, how long have you been reading comics? Couple of months?


YOU know what's irritating? Your attitude. Can you be mature for twelve seconds?

[Kurosawa]

Contrary to what you're stating here ... Byrne DID NOT make Krypton a non-factor. Some fo the best World of Krypton stories I've read were Byrne. I loved how he showed Krypton's past and how vibrant it was. Juxtaposed against what Krypton became we get a real sense of it's history. How it went from the bare-chested emotionally rich society to the emotionally repressed dystopia at the end gives me that same sense I had watching the STNG episode 'The Inner Light'. And the point of Byrne's Krypton was that Clark was freed from it's cold, dispassionate ways to grow as a man. In essence, to discover the Krypton it was before it allowed itself to become constrictive and aloof. I always thought it was silly for him to use expressions like 'Great Rao' when it wouldn't have been things he would have casually said growing up. Imagine him sitting in class and coming out with that. He'd be more likely to use the same expression we would.

Byrne's World of Krypton series was...annoying at best. His Krypton did nothing for me. Later, better writers did at least create some cool things from it like the Eradicator, although that could have been used on a classic Krypton as well. In fact when they started to bring it back before they chickened out in the early 2000's they integrated the Eradicator idea.

Pre-Crisis he exclaimed Rao's name because he watched and experienced the recordings left by Jor-El and also traveled back to Krypton before it's destruction.

Superman is NOT Batman. His life doesn't need to be driven by tradgedy..... and, again, it was the powers that be that were the deciding factor in whether the Kents survived or not. The most popular element from the Superboy books were the Kents. The decision was made to keep them around in his adult life because there was no longer a 'Superboy' in continuity. BTW, before we debate whether that character was necessary, I always felt that they were 'cute' reads but ultimately robbed the adult character of experiencing things for the first time.

I can give or take Superboy myself, although getting rid of him ruined the Legion and Byrne himself admitted it was a major mistake. I NEVER said that tragedies in his life is what motivates Superman, but my point was that everyone experiences personal pain and losses, and the Byrne-Era version never had those at all.

And, personally, I like that the Kents are around in his adult life. They're great characters and have a lot of uses: They give Clark a place to drop his guard and just be himself... doubts and all; They make a handy tool for exposition - say, for instance, allowing a reader to catch up with the plot - or - letting us inside Clark's head.

I like them a ton, but I've always felt that keeping them alive keeps Clark from being a fully mature character, plus again it took any element of loss from his life. In fact in the Superman 2000 proposal that DC should have accepted they mentioned how those milk and cookies scenes makes Superman look lame.

Again - I disagree. I feel what makes him a great hero was his decision to become that powerful protector and to stand for something. He could have grown up in any kind of way and still arrived at that. It's fortunate from a character development POV that he had the Kent's who instilled in him - not only their values - but a sense of what it's like to be regular people.

I said part, not all. All heroes in literature have losses and trials. Removing those from Superman was a big part of why the Byrne version failed and was abandoned.

If you were to stop reading the books with the end of the Man Of Steel reintroduction I'd agree with you.... but.... I ask you to reread the Exile In Space arc. It was his wake-up call and I would say he experienced some emotional pain (albeit that it was something he inflicted on himself). It was something so devastating that he feld he couldn't go on being Superman and literally exiled himself.

That storyline, while good, came from an event that was complete crap and 100% unacceptable. Superman DOES. NOT. KILL. Not to mention that Green K doesn't work on nonpowered Kryptonians...not that Byrne would know that of course.

The original Siegel/Shuster run didn't dwell on Krypton either. Superman seemed to function fairly well then.

It would have involved Krypton more if National hadn't taken control from Siegel over the K-Metal story.

K, love you like a brother, but you have to see that you're POV is really just that and that there are many of us who feel otherwise.... and, like you, I didn't grow up with the movies but - the comix.

Well, most of the best comics writers of the last 25 years agree with my viewpoints and All-Star Superman, which is pretty much how I see Superman, has been acclaimed as the best Superman story in years, so I think the people that count the most agree with me.

I love how Kurosawa makes assumptions about the current comics that simply arent true.

1) Superman doesnt have a connection to Krypton.
Excuse me? Did he have one pre-Crisis? In any case you should read the Superman|Batman arc with Kara's arrival to Earth and what it meant to him. It shows how alone he feels, being the only survivor of his planet in a world that he is forced to hide his nature in order to have a normal life. Being the lone survivor of his planet pains him terribly. Even crappy Smallville showed how much Krypton meant to him when he risked everything to contact that scientist played by Reeves who could talk to him about Krypton.

DID HE HAVE CONNECTIONS TO KRYPTON PRE-CRISIS? :doh::lmao:

2) Superman has never had a loss in his life.
Yes lets give every superhero a dead parent. As if being the lone survivor of a whole planet wasnt enough. In any case i dont think that Jonathan's death defined him like uncle Ben's murder defined Spiderman or the Wayne murders defined Batman, so removing that from canon makes no big difference to me.

It hurt the character, and there is no doubt of that. Grant Morrision > you when it comes to understanding Superman methinks.

3) Superman has a perfect life.
Byrne making him a jock in high school was a terrible decision which they are fixing now. But apart from that, i dont think his life is perfect. Just from the top of my head, look at how he and Lois cant have children.[/QUOTE]

They could, and Byrne of all people figured out how in Generations, which was actually really good. But they've gotten rid of all that crap and Pa died, so they have Superman in the right place now.

[SpiderByte]

Grant Morrision > you when it comes to understanding Superman methinks.

What, so Grant Morrison understands Superman more than him because he doesn't have his perspective?

This is why I hate your attitude. You assume everything you say is correct, no matter how many times you say "In my opinion.". It's as polite as saying "In my opinion, you're a loser because you don't share my opinion."

You can't just say that we're wrong because we don't have your opinion. The sum of your arguments are:

1: "No, YOUR idea is wrong, because it wasn't true to the original story."

2: "Have you ever read a half-century comic book that nobody can find these days? No? Then your opinion is ****."

or

3: "If it isn't Siegel and Schuster, it must suck, because it isn't true to the original authors intentions."

That's how I, and likely a few other people here, see it.



It doesn't matter if you say it's your opinion if you treat it like it's fact.

[ck1777]

YOU know what's irritating? Your attitude. Can you be mature for twelve seconds?

What are you Earles lawyer? Why don't you take 12 seconds and click find more posts by Mr Earle and see how many times he talks down to people and says things like:

You obviously don't read comics
You really need to read more comics
You clearly don't know anything about the comics

For a guy who just started reading comics, he sure has a holier that thou attitude when it comes to them.

[Mr. Earle]

You know what's irritating, check all of your posts all around the hype and you'll find that 90% of them are telling people how they don't know anything about characters and they should read more comics and blah blah. Be honest, how long have you been reading comics? Couple of months?
I started reading comics yesterday actually. :cwink:YOU know what's irritating? Your attitude. Can you be mature for twelve seconds?
Thanks mate!
DID HE HAVE CONNECTIONS TO KRYPTON PRE-CRISIS? :doh::lmao:
Sorry, i didnt catch that. Would you care to elaborate?
It hurt the character, and there is no doubt of that. Grant Morrision > you when it comes to understanding Superman methinks.Yeah, Morrison is a great writer, but does that mean that i have to accept everything he writes?
In any case, All-Star was a self contained elseworlds story. But to be honest, i really liked how he handled Pa Kent's death, both when he died and when Superman traveled back in time to see him once more.

[protocida]

^ People don't have to read comics in order to participate of this Forum. Mr. Earle is a cool guy and contribues a lot to this place, just like everyone else. It's not because he only started to read comics recently that he can't give his imput on the subject.

[ck1777]

^ People don't have to read comics in order to participate of this Forum. Mr. Earle is a cool guy and contribues a lot to this place, just like everyone else. It's not because he only started to read comics recently that he can't give his imput on the subject.

Exactly! Reading comics doesn't make you superior in any way. So when he talks down to people and says things like what I posted above it's pathetic. Again read what he's posted in other threads in the past and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm not an expert in comics but I know alot about my favorite characters, and I would never talk down to people because they don't know as much as I do.

[Mr. Earle]

^ People don't have to read comics in order to participate of this Forum. Mr. Earle is a cool guy and contribues a lot to this place, just like everyone else. It's not because he only started to read comics recently that he can't give his imput on the subject.Thanks for the support! :yay:
Exactly! Reading comics doesn't make you superior in any way. So when he talks down to people and says things like what I posted above it's pathetic. Again read what he's posted in other threads in the past and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm not an expert in comics but I know alot about my favorite characters, and I would never talk down to people because they don't know as much as I do.
I started reading comics a few years ago actually, but when it comes to Superman i'm still a noob and have read mostly the recent stuff. And that's why i only said that Kurosawa should read more of the current stuff because apart from some bad books, i have never seen Superman getting ridiculed by Batman or anyone else, or not caring about Krypton as he suggests.

[epc11223]

something tells me everything is going to be a different universe. we'll have

superman
Batman
green lantern
Flash
wonder woman

and then another separate universe for justice league that consists of team members that are popular but cant really carry a movie by themselves like

aquaman
atom
martian manhunter
hawkman
hawkgirl
plastic man


to me, i really wouldn't mind this type of setup. then maybe in some justice league sequels (if it ever gets that far) you'll have superman and batman where people will somewhat forget about nolans version. plus if its a sequel the new director/producer may try to be respectful of nolans version but still want to do their own spin on it.

[ck1777]

Thanks for the support! :yay:

I started reading comics a few years ago actually, but when it comes to Superman i'm still a noob and have read mostly the recent stuff. And that's why i only said that Kurosawa should read more of the current stuff because apart from some bad books, i have never seen Superman getting ridiculed by Batman or anyone else, or not caring about Krypton as he suggests.

Right but Kurosawa said that he likes the current books but doesn't like post crisis Superman. Post Crisis and the current books are 2 different things.

But back to the movie. I'm watching Serenity and I always thought the guy that played Simon had a great Superman look to him. Unfortunatley he's too short but does anyone how tall he is?

[epc11223]

Right but Kurosawa said that he likes the current books but doesn't like post crisis Superman. Post Crisis and the current books are 2 different things.

But back to the movie. I'm watching Serenity and I always thought the guy that played Simon had a great Superman look to him. Unfortunatley he's too short but does anyone how tall he is?


according to imdb, his name is sean maher and he's 5'10''