WB Superman Reboot 3.0: Christopher Nolan Edition

[MAN O STEEL]

You know that's Tom Welling in that picture, right, Steve?


you know I do. Point?

[Double Down]

you know I do. Point?

Your comment under the picture sounds sarcastic.

[Spade]

Reboots are so 2008 ... 2010 will be prime for a sequel.

5 years after the fact would be a great time to make a sequel? I'd love to hear the argument as to how this is a good idea.

[louiebling$]

I think everyone here knows who I would like to see :cool:

Actually I'm interested on who u want... clearly I want welling.. He's perfect for a reboot in my opinion

[Double Down]

5 years after the fact would be a great time to make a sequel? I'd love to hear the argument as to how this is a good idea.

Four years.

[Spade]

The odds of a sequel, at the current speed, being released in 2010 is nil to none.

[Double Down]

It's higher than that.

[Double Down]

This is most likely what is happening...

Jett is refering to a "spec script" which he says "the studio" is pleased with. This means the studio has a script that they like.

Then Anne Thompson has some info from the studio saying something to the effect of, "If Bryan Singer is on board with our ideas then he will direct, if not, he can take a hike." The exec is most likely refering to this spec script that WB likes.

Now Steve at Supermanhomepage is talking about writers that might have been hired or are working on the script, and he heard this around the same time as Jett. To me this is a seperate situation in which writers are working on another script, the question is, who are the writers and who are they working with?

Now this scenario makes sense if Steve Younis, Jett, and Anne all have accurate info...

I'm not alone in thinking that.

[Spade]

With the director doing other projects, the lack of a script, and the WB basically saying "we have no clue what to do with Superman"? I think that's fairly spot-on. Considering how long it took to get Returns in the first place, we'd be in for a wait even if it's a direct sequel.

[Mike22]

This guy does NOT "deserve it."


Oh yes he does.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6753/supermanwellingdw1.png

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2176/0040255copydd0.png (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/)

[Double Down]

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2176/0040255copydd0.png (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/)

"Superboy needs a hug."

[Super Kal]

yeah, uh, no thanks

[Mike22]

Hahaha, hardly.
That`s him saying. "I`m superman, deal with it"

[Double Down]

Hahaha, hardly.
That`s him saying. "I`m superman, deal with it"

I think he is going to cry.

[Crook]

Hahaha, hardly.
That`s him saying. "I`m superman, deal with it"
I think all the SV fans need to deal with the fact that Welling will never don the suit or play Superman, and is stuck as Clark Kent.

[Mike22]

I think he is going to cry.
Well. considering that you seem to be very negative towards Welling playing superman, It doesn`t really come as a surprise that you would think he was crying. It`s not exactly something new to twist things to suit your case, as your post proves here.

But here`s another one for you, where you might not be able to accuse him of "crying"
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/438/newmanipmh8.png (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/)

[dark_b]

hmmmm a good manip. but the neck is very skinny.

[Mike22]

I think all the SV fans need to deal with the fact that Welling will never don the suit or play Superman, and is stuck as Clark Kent.

I really already have, but as a true fan of Welling, I`d like to keep hope that perhaps, just perhaps, it might happen, even though it most like wont.
And if it doesn't, then Cavill is my second choice.

[Mike22]

hmmmm a good manip. but the neck is very skinny.
Thanks.
But considering Wellings very wide face, if I had made the neck any wider, it would have looked a bit too much.

[dark_b]

Thanks.
But considering Wellings very wide face, if I had made the neck any wider, it would have looked a bit too much.i meant the first manip. on the kent farm.
ok enough offtopic ;)

[Mike22]

i meant the first manip. on the kent farm.
Ahh, ok.
ok enough offtopic ;)
Then we`ll get straight back to the topic, but honestly, how ever much a few fans here don`t want to admit it...Welling is, has always been, and until someone else is cast as superman, pretty much will always be a topic of discussion when it comes to the next superman movie, if they`re gonna go ahead with the reboot.http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/smilies/icon14.gif
SR didn`t really work out. Doesn`t matter who you ask, supporters or socalled haters. That`s nothing more than the opinion of a few select fans that spend all day on a message board, and with no particular power to speak of. If it HAD worked, we would've been discussing the sequel and the latest picture released from production of Man Of Steel, but clearly that`s not the case. WHY? Because the WB weren`t pleased with the end result.
And here is where Welling comes in. The WB are stuck in a ditch when it comes to they handle their superman casting. Routh was cast, and met with quite a bit of hostility, and that`s something that did not change after people saw the movie. And no matter how much a few people here insist that Welling can`t act, it is and will always remain nothing more than a personal opinion that some tend yell out as much as they can, and an opinion that is not shared by the WB since they did offer Welling the part in JL. There are more than enough of people that DO think he can act and would do justice to superman, so some people yelling as loud as they can that he can`t act with their special little sarcastic smilies, isn`t really gonna acheive a damn thing, when it comes to him actually being cast.
On either part, the same goes for Routh. Doesn`t matter how wrong I or others thought he was for the part, if SR had been ultra successful, he would've been in the sequel, no question asked.
There should be no doubt that the WB never have and never will give a damn about what the fans want. They want money, and if they thought Welling was good enough for JL, and the reinvention of superman that JL was to provide us, than they`re not gonna ignore Welling when it comes to the new reboot either. People can complain till they`re blue in the face, this is still a very strong possibility.
So, if they DO in fact go with the reboot, who are they gonna cast. The already painfully experienced what it was like to hire an unexperienced actor like Routh, so that`s not gonna happen again. They ARE gonna try to go after Welling again, just like they did for JL. Because he has never actually played the costumed superman, so he`s still a strong possibility.
A few fans complaining and bit**ing on a forum about their feelings on his acting abilities will never even make the WB bat an eye. Because his fanbase is about 1000 times stronger than the few that tend to think that he can`t act, or that his lips are to big, or the nose to wide.
People need to let this ***** go because, in the long haul, it doesn't matter, and will mean absolutely nothing.

The only thing that will possibly be an obstacle is if Welling himself says that he`s tired of playing the same character and decided that he doesn`t want to do it. But I have a feeling that this time around the WB are gonna offer him to much for him to not do it.

Or they decide to do the sequel, and then Welling is out of the running for sure.

[Mikelus]

What really matters, is what WB thinks:

Superman' didn't quite work as a film in the way that we wanted it to," says Mr. Robinov. "It didn't position the character the way he needed to be positioned." "Had 'Superman' worked in 2006, we would have had a movie for Christmas of this year or 2009," he adds. "But now the plan is just to reintroduce Superman without regard to a Batman and Superman movie at all."

[Showtime]

This is a reboot thread...this isn't a Tom Welling thread. Just because WB is considering a reboot or revamp, doesn't mean Tom Welling is now going to be Superman. Right now, this is the Superman: Man of Steel forums. From what Robinov said, it is a possibility that this could change, but for now it still is. There is a thread for Tom Welling as Superman in the Smallville forums.

[Nixon]

If someone like Routh is branded as the Superman Returns Superman and can't be in a reboot, why would Tom Welling, the Smallville Superman, not have the same problem?

[Superfreak]

If someone like Routh is branded as the Superman Returns Superman and can't be in a reboot, why would Tom Welling, the Smallville Superman, not have the same problem?

precisely... both properties suck big time in their own ways. SV is worse IMO, for dragging us through 7 years of nonsense. Atleast SR only tortured us for a couple of hours.

[GreenKToo]

This is a reboot thread...this isn't a Tom Welling thread. Just because WB is considering a reboot or revamp, doesn't mean Tom Welling is now going to be Superman. Right now, this is the Superman: Man of Steel forums. From what Robinov said, it is a possibility that this could change, but for now it still is. There is a thread for Tom Welling as Superman in the Smallville forums.
I'd like your opinion. Do you think with what we've heard, that it will be a revamp with Routh? or, a total reboot with a new director, cast, etc?

[Chris Wallace]

I think a fresh start is definitely the way to go, & everything done by Singer & Donner (yes, even Donner) should be thrown out. I do not, however, feel that we need to see Krypton explode again, watch him grow up again, get re-introduced to Lois & the DP staff. If Lex is in it (that's a big "if") then I'd want to see him as a corrupt CEO, which is the version many of us have come to love. And whether Lex is in or out, bring in some other villains; Brainiac, Metallo, ANYBODY! And I don't want a nerdy Clark. In fact, I see no reason why he & Lois can't be together & have her knowing who he is.

[louiebling$]

This is a reboot thread...this isn't a Tom Welling thread. Just because WB is considering a reboot or revamp, doesn't mean Tom Welling is now going to be Superman. Right now, this is the Superman: Man of Steel forums. From what Robinov said, it is a possibility that this could change, but for now it still is. There is a thread for Tom Welling as Superman in the Smallville forums.

So its a reboot thread but I can't discuss who I would want them to cast as superman?? Cuz that's all I did.... IMO I want welling to be Cast in a reboot

[Mikelus]

precisely... both properties suck big time in their own ways. SV is worse IMO, for dragging us through 7 years of nonsense. Atleast SR only tortured us for a couple of hours.

Yeah right, but you watch a show that "sucks big time", how coherent. :o

[RedIsNotBlue]

Thank god they are wiping the slate clean and hopefully this time around they just assume that everyone already basically knows the origin of Superman and the movie just picks up from there. And it is obvious we are going to be getting a powerful super villain this time around that can give Superman a good fight because that is what people want to see and WB seems to be recognizing that hopefully by this point.

And hell no to Welling. The new movie should have no connection to the show Smallville. A lesser known actor should get the gig. I said it before a long time ago and I will say it again. Someone like Anson Mount would be perfect.

http://ontheinside.info/wp-content/authors/anson-mount/anson-mount02.jpg
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/crossroads/_group_photos/anson_mount24.jpg

[Showtime]

I'd like your opinion. Do you think with what we've heard, that it will be a revamp with Routh? or, a total reboot with a new director, cast, etc?

It sounds like it is some sort of reboot to me, without Routh or Singer. Just my opinion, but it will be much more clear soon.

So its a reboot thread but I can't discuss who I would want them to cast as superman?? Cuz that's all I did.... IMO I want welling to be Cast in a reboot

You obviously haven't been here that long, I wish it was a simple as that. :csad:

[ant3ros]

The Tom Welling pushers take any opportunity they can, dirty snakes.

It would be interesting to hear what WB plans to do for the cast. I definitely wouldn't want to see Tom Welling, but I wouldn't mind Routh again.

They could simply make an established movie and start from there. We don't need anymore origins or flashbacks. It would work if we see Superman already integrated back in Metropolis.

[Showtime]

Nothing wrong with Tom Welling or talking about him or wanting him. Problem is, this stuff has happened before and caused major problems. I don't want it like this, but for now, it has to be.

[bunk]

I wonder what they'd call the movie if it were a reboot. I suppose they could still use "Man of Steel".

[louiebling$]

I hope they still use Man of Steel... or something along those lines..... After SR reboot is needed...And to be quite honest I hated Routh as supes he was a good clark kent... but supes not so much.... yes the tribute to Donners film was Nice But lets face it here those were HIS films......... get a director who will Direct the film in his own way and not influenced by donner... we all kno donner did a fantastic job but its time for change.. Take superman a direction its never been.... this news Is simply Bliss to my ears... and just in case no one has seen this yet....




http://www.superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=7609

[Lighthouse]

Way to go WB. Do a reboot, and then focus on the exact thing that made SR such a downer in the first place. This studio has no idea what the hell its doing.

[Superfreak]

Yeah right, but you watch a show that "sucks big time", how coherent. :o

and you're in here arguing about a sequel to a movie you didn't like. Go figure.

[ant3ros]

If only Superman did get a smart and passionate director to make all major calls, but Nolans are few and far between.

Routh wasn't that bad. To be fair on his part, he wasn't given much to work with.

[Bad Superman]

We're getting a reboot. . . .

YEAH BABY!!!

[Coleman Reese]

Thank god they are wiping the slate clean and hopefully this time around they just assume that everyone already basically knows the origin of Superman and the movie just picks up from there. And it is obvious we are going to be getting a powerful super villain this time around that can give Superman a good fight because that is what people want to see and WB seems to be recognizing that hopefully by this point.

And hell no to Welling. The new movie should have no connection to the show Smallville. A lesser known actor should get the gig. I said it before a long time ago and I will say it again. Someone like Anson Mount would be perfect.

http://ontheinside.info/wp-content/authors/anson-mount/anson-mount02.jpg
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/crossroads/_group_photos/anson_mount24.jpg

I remember when this dude guest starred on Smallville. If they are planning to go dark this is the perfect candidate. He can convey darkness and still looks like Kal El.

[Bad Superman]

One thing's for sure. . . I'll stay away from the spoilers section this time around. ;)

[Showtime]

Can I ban you if you don't?

[Bad Superman]

Can I ban you if you don't?

Uh. Why? :huh:

[Bad Superman]

I won't peek. I promise. LOL

[Anubis]

Cuz you're bad.

[Bad Superman]

Cuz you're bad.

That makes sense. . . . :hehe::up:

[Dark Knight]

Way to go WB. Do a reboot, and then focus on the exact thing that made SR such a downer in the first place. This studio has no idea what the hell its doing.



Yep....they take one step forward but three steps back it seems.

Unreal huh?

I'll tell you, I want to know who the director and writers are and who is going to play Superman and when the release date is going to be before I even come close to being pumped for this.

[Timstuff]

Remember a few days ago when I started this thread (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=310346)? Does it still seem like it's "out there?" :woot:

[Zing79]

I was reading...I was waiting...and it took a few pages, but sure enough, the seed has been planted.

Let the eternal debate begin a new. I'm actually excited - maybe some of the long time posters will come back, and you'll see 40 pages over the next two months with two camps. "Welling" and "Not Welling" :)

I'm in (mainly because I'm not a mod and don't have to deal with anything that comes with this debate).

[Bad Superman]

I was reading...I was waiting...and it took a few pages, but sure enough, the seed has been planted.

Let the eternal debate begin a new. I'm actually excited - maybe some of the long time posters will come back, and you'll see 40 pages over the next two months with two camps. "Welling" and "Not Welling" :)

I'm in (mainly because I'm not a mod and don't have to deal with anything that comes with this debate).

Welcome back Zing. You're right, after these news I'll visit more often. Things are gonna get interesting once again.

[GreenKToo]

I'd prefer they open it with an already established Supes. I mean, who doesnt know the origin by now. But whatever. I won't b%*&$ about it if they retell it again.

[GreenKToo]

It's nice to see some older posters back. Hopefully some good news and times are ahead.
Fasten your seatbelts folks. It's gonna be a helluva ride.

[Slugster]

Mount's nose is messed up other wise???

[metropolitanpsy]

i hope nolan is chosen to handle the superman project
warner bros know he can bring superman back

no more singer tripe!!!!!!!!

[Nixon]

I'd prefer they open it with an already established Supes. I mean, who doesnt know the origin by now. But whatever. I won't b%*&$ about it if they retell it again.


Superman's origin makes for a fantastic story and really, there's no better way to say "this is a brand new Superman" than by starting off right at the beginning.

My biggest concern actually is that they don't jerk the comics in another direction, again, to fit in with the tone/look/universe of this new Superman.

[Coleman Reese]

I'd prefer they open it with an already established Supes. I mean, who doesnt know the origin by now. But whatever. I won't b%*&$ about it if they retell it again.

They should do a new origin that gets away from Donner's film. I really hope they take a look at JJ Abrams script and incorporate some of those elements in a new screenplay.

[metropolitanpsy]

Its Simple Hire The Nolan Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[batman44]

^dude, stop spamming the threads.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Nolan is going to busy with Batman 3. That isn't the way to go just hiring Nolan. Give another director a shot who is passionate about the character. They made the mistake of hiring a guy who was passionate about Richard Donner's version.

[Captain Planet!]

My reaction to the news of a Superman reboot:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn293/LeadGuy/n64kidbox.gif


My reaction to the news of a dark Superman reboot:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j216/Bigred2989/Funny%20pictures/bosh.gif

[metropolitanpsy]

Nolan is going to busy with Batman 3. That isn't the way to go just hiring Nolan. Give another director a shot who is passionate about the character. They made the mistake of hiring a guy who was passionate about Richard Donner's version.

dont be a fool

nolan secretly loves making big blockbusters

pay him wuteva he wants

and lets get a brand new superman franchise goin

nolan all the way

[Michael Corleone]

Dear God in heaven...I'm fine with a reboot except for one thing. I don't know if I can take the casting wars part II. It's happening all over again. If it gets as crazy as before, I might just stroke out.

[Michael Corleone]

dont be a fool

nolan secretly loves making big blockbusters

pay him wuteva he wants

and lets get a brand new superman franchise goin

nolan all the way

Nolan isn't going to play double duty on both Batman and Superman. I wouldn't want him to either. It would mean one or the other would suffer in some way. You don't want to stretch the man too thin. Using the Batman franchise as a road map wouldn't be a bad idea though.

[VenomsMom]

HOORAY.....this is glorious news. A fresh new start for one of the greatest comic heroes of all. What a delight this was to awaken to. After 2 yrears of no news we get good news....HOORAY.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Nolan isn't going to play double duty on both Batman and Superman. I wouldn't want him to either. It would mean one or the other would suffer in some way. You don't want to stretch the man too thin. Using the Batman franchise as a road map wouldn't be a bad idea though.

Yeah exactly. And I am sure Nolan is already getting exhausted from doing Batman himself. I am sure he wants to continue his career outside of the big budget blockbuster area. I also like this logic that Nolan made amazing Batman films so that he can do that with anything. While he is an amazing director he did Batman because Batman appealed to him. He could give two ****s about Superman and find him a boring one dimensional character for all we know.

[metropolitanpsy]

Nolan isn't going to play double duty on both Batman and Superman. I wouldn't want him to either. It would mean one or the other would suffer in some way. You don't want to stretch the man too thin. Using the Batman franchise as a road map wouldn't be a bad idea though.

i dont agree
for the write amount of money
nolan will do it
no doubt

ur too pessimistic

nolan is the best comic book director period!

superman deserves the best

[I Am The Knight]

i dont agree
for the write amount of money
nolan will do it
no doubt

ur too pessimistic

nolan is the best comic book director period!

superman deserves the best

What is it with you? Stop this nonsense. Nolan is doing Batman. He should stay with Batman. Get someone else for Superman. Period.

[metropolitanpsy]

What is it with you? Stop this nonsense. Nolan is doing Batman. He should stay with Batman. Get someone else for Superman. Period.

ok lets hire another singer

and watch the superman franchise die once and for all

[I Am The Knight]

Sure :whatever:

[RedIsNotBlue]

Well I mean its obvious Nolan is the only one capable of reviving the franchise what are you all retarded!!!!! :(

[Michael Corleone]

i dont agree
for the write amount of money
nolan will do it
no doubt

ur too pessimistic

nolan is the best comic book director period!

superman deserves the best

It isn't pessimism. It's logic and common sense. Nolan will not have anything to do with the next Superman film. He's working on Batman and Batman only. They will not put him on both movies at risk of hurt their already established franchise. I'm sure Nolan doesn't want to do it either. It's fine to speculate, but please be a little more serious about this. It's just not going to happen, no matter how much you want it. Just because he did well with Batman, doesn't mean he would do the same for Superman.

[Michael Corleone]

ok lets hire another singer

and watch the superman franchise die once and for all

Singer was praised for this work on X-Men and X2. X2 being regarded as one of the best comic book movies ever and he was handed Superman. Look how that turned out. Nolan is working on Batman and has made movies that are considered to be some of the best comic book movies ever. So a guaranteed Superman hit is not necessarily a lock.

[FlawlessVictory]

What is it with you? Stop this nonsense. Nolan is doing Batman. He should stay with Batman. Get someone else for Superman. Period.

Agreed. Get a brand new director who has never had any ties to any previous superhero films. So, no Raimi and no Favreau either.

[RedIsNotBlue]

I have a suggestion that would be so out of left field and mind blowing I won't even say it. People wouldn't accept it. :(

[FlawlessVictory]

I have a suggestion that would be so out of left field and mind blowing I won't even say it. People wouldn't accept it. :(

Is he in your avatar? :cmad:

[RedIsNotBlue]

Is he in your avatar? :cmad:

No. Even though I do think everyone is too hard on Schumacher. He can make great movies he just catered to the studios and made campy goofy versions.

BUT...the director I have in mind is one who I have said has such an amazing visual style that he would be a great director for a comic book film. And if they really are going with a darker more serious Superman movie he might even be better. The director is...

...David Fincher...

:wow:

[Crook]

Silly goose, if that happens then he can't direct the next Batman series. :o

[RedIsNotBlue]

Silly goose, if that happens then he can't direct the next Batman series. :o

Very true. :cmad:

[The Caped Knight]

I'm all for a complete Reboot . And By Reboot I mean a retelling of The Origin from Krypton to Earth etc....

Plus Superman needs to fight Super Villains (I want to see an Alpha Smackdown between The Man Of Steel and Metallo (for example) or Brainiac or Doomsday)

[GreenLantern1]

Reboot! Awesome news! No more super son!

[CGHulk]

Reboot! Awesome news! No more super son!
Exactly! ;) :up:

[batlovescatDC]

Now that a reboot is offical, I was wondering.... Is there anyone besides me that thinks that, although it is a reboot of the franchise, it should be done WITHOUT the origin? I mean between previous films, the comics, the cartoons, and Smallville, I think everybody pretty much so knows how Superman came to be. I would definitely prefer it if they rebooted it without it being an origin movie. Have it pick up a few years after he's already been established in Metropolis as Superman and perhaps only elude to his origin in various short flashback sequences, if even that (maybe it would be best if they don't even elude to his origin). I mean, Superman just does not need another origin story imo.... it's been done over and over in all types of media... in order for it to be a true reboot, we need something fresh and new. What do you guys think?

[Spider-Fan]

I am one of the biggest advocates of a non-origin reboot for Superman. I've been calling for it since 2007.

[SuperDaniel]

I vote to see the origin but in a non LINEAR or chronollogically linear way.

[Mentok]

No origin for Superman... I have always been interested in someone paralleling Superman's fight on earth with Jor-El's fight for acceptance on Krypton.

2 stories that both connect up in theme I guess. Probably would end up too complicated and take too much time. They could certainly simplify it though and make it work.

[Timstuff]

It should be an integrated, non-linear origin story. The main film should focus on Clark Kent adapting to his new life of being Superman, with flashbacks of his Smallville life peppered throughout. Think of it as a "year one" story but with flashbacks showing what lead up to it.

However, they should definitely get the action going pretty early on, because people will whine if they have to wait an hour for the costume like in the Donner film. And try to save the Krypton stuff for when Superman meets Brainiac in the sequel (he should fight Metallo in the first film, because let's face it, Robots are bad@$$, and Brainiac would be a really tough first act to follow).

[DieSmiling]

I vote to see the origin but in a non LINEAR or chronollogically linear way.

That's kind of how I feel too. Don't spend the first 45 minutes of the film doing an origin -- start with Superman established in Metropolis, but spend some time (maybe 20 minutes) flashing back to or referencing the origin... I like the idea of using Brainiac and using his TAS origin with Krypton, tying it all together...

[SuperDaniel]

I believe it should be a mix of different stories and incarnations with little nods to everything.

It should be an origin in an non-linear way, different than what was done in S:TM.

We should first meet Clark when he's traveling around the world to solve problems and something attracts him to Metropolis. Something plausible.

In my script, We first find him secretly helping people survive through a war in Caznia (A little nod to TAS and Peace on Earth). He would be bringing food to the helpless, protecting innocent people without actually interfering in thematic things. However, one side of the war starts to win fast because of advanced weapons. Lois is there covering it all with Jimmy taking photos of the destruction too. She suspects there is going to be some kind of a weapon deal between a terrorist faction from Caznia and some unknown people in the Harbour so she goes there to check. Clark is listening to it all and go there too and stops the transaction, taking care of the terrorists. Eventually, he manages to trace it all back to Metropolis and that's the reason he goes there in the first place.

Eventually the war is over but the side-effects are numerous. Countless injured, homeless,etc. Clark wonders if he is doing the right thing to act in secret. He thinks he needs to be something more, an exemple, a symbol. So he goes to Smallville to create the Superman idenitity with his parents. As he comes back to Smallville, he remembers his creation and learnings from his childhood, all done in flashbacks. Little nods to the Tornado sequence, Lana, Pete Ross and Superman for all seasons.

This is a way i found out to kinda put together Birthright, TAs, Superman for all seasons, Man of steel and various other stories from the comics and make it completely new and different than Donner's origin.

[SatEL]

I am in favour of an origin story from Krypton to Metropolis, No flashbacks and no leaving out the origin.

[lujho]

We definitely don't need to see Clark become Superman for the first time. But it woul be nice to see a bit of Krypton stuff, if only to say that this is not Donner's Krypton, hir Jor-El or his version of the Superman universe. It could be a fairly quick montage in the credits sequence for example.

ANother way of showing the Krypton stuff would be to do something like the Superman story "for the man who has everything" where Superman hallucinates that Krypton never got destroyed. That way you get to see what the place and his family was like, without re-treading over old ground.

I definitely don't think we'll get a SUperman The Movie, Batman Begins or Spider-Man style full-on origin film though. I think WB are smart enough to know we don't need it.

[Dark_Lord]

We need an origin for the reboot, not because people don't know about it, but to show that it's different from the previous Superman movies. I'd really like a full origin with Krypton, Jor-El etc...but even a opening credits origin with maybe some flashbacks later, possibly through Brainiac, would be nice.

[dark_b]

i think an origin used in flashbacks is the way to go.

[Rust]

As much as I'd like to see a modern "realistic" take on Supes introduction to mankind and the "ooohs" and "aaahs" and panicking people, I dont think it's entirely necessary this time. Like already stated I think most people wanna skip that part a go straight to the action.
So either plunge us right into the movie and have relevant flashbacks of stuff we havent' seen yet, like how exactly he came about the suit itself and so on.
Or they could also do a kick-ass prologue, like they're doing with Watchmen, and show some Kryptonian backstory and again stuff we haven't seen, but only guessed at.

[Katsuro]

It has to be an origin if it's gonna be a reboot. It's the best way to show that this is a different continuity. Besides, it's been a while since the Donner movie, and Smallville sucks, so I dont think an origin film would be inappopriate. As long as the origin aspect is quick, and you get to the action early.

[Rust]

It has to be an origin if it's gonna be a reboot. It's the best way to show that this is a different continuity. Besides, it's been a while since the Donner movie, and Smallville sucks, so I dont think an origin film would be inappopriate. As long as the origin aspect is quick, and you get to the action early.

Yeah, I still wanna see the origin, so maybe they could elaborate on the Kryptonian history and have the first 20-25 minutes take place on Krypton and show some Kryptonian fewds and wars. Then you have more insigth to Supes' background as well as have action from the get-go. And if the movie is 2.5 hours you'd still have 2 hours on earth, so you'd be getting 2 movies... sort of.

Didn't the McG-Superman have this Kryptonian prologue which was a chapter in itself?

I've always wanted to see more stories from Krypton myself.

[GreenKToo]

yes, in flashbacks.

[Eggyman]

yes, in flashbacks.

:up:

[SatEL]

As much as I'd like to see a modern "realistic" take on Supes introduction to mankind and the "ooohs" and "aaahs" and panicking people, I dont think it's entirely necessary this time. Like already stated I think most people wanna skip that part a go straight to the action.
So either plunge us right into the movie and have relevant flashbacks of stuff we havent' seen yet, like how exactly he came about the suit itself and so on.
Or they could also do a kick-ass prologue, like they're doing with Watchmen, and show some Kryptonian backstory and again stuff we haven't seen, but only guessed at.

Thats what worries me the most, people just want to see Superman punch something or someone, I cant say I blame them after SR people just want some action but that solely is not the way to go. To be honest I am willing to be very very patient with WB in terms of them developing this film, After the crap that was SR I want them to take their time and lay the ground work for a great universe and a rich history that extends further than earth. Instead people want us to jump into an established Superman universe with flashbacks giving us key points of his life, I personally see failure with that option no matter how many people he punches in the film.

[MAN O STEEL]

Thats what worries me the most, people just want to see Superman punch something or someone, I cant say I blame them after SR people just want some action but that solely is not the way to go. To be honest I am willing to be very very patient with WB in terms of them developing this film, After the crap that was SR I want them to take their time and lay the ground work for a great universe and a rich history that extends further than earth. Instead people want us to jump into an established Superman universe with flashbacks giving us key points of his life, I personally see failure with that option no matter how many people he punches in the film.


Exactly. SR is a prime example of what not to do. Instead of reinventing Superman in an origin for a 21st century audience they chose to return a 30 yr old Superman property & look what happened. BACKFIRE!.


Steve

[Dr Strange]

they should either show no origin at all or do what the Incredible Hulk did just show it in flashbacks or the opening credits.

[GreenLantern1]

They should do his origin like they did in The Incredible Hulk. I don't feel like waiting an hour to see him become Superman. He should be Superman from the start and get right into it.

[DIRECTOR]

They should do an origin story. Show Krypton, show it blowing up, show Jor-El and Laura. Superman deserves an origin story for the new generation. The audience needs to connect with Superman, from his past and present. We need to see and understand WHY HE BECAME SUPERMAN.

Showing the origin in the Main Titles sequence is stupid.

[steelio2006]

if they re-do a majority of the new movie as origin, i will completely boycott it. i'm tired of seein the origin. i want Superman to be a badass facing off against Parasite, Metallo, Darkseid.

[batman44]

^And he can do that in a origin film.

[teseract]

I can't wait for the day your "dark and edgy" Whinerman reboot will come out and it will be the final nail in the Superman movie franchise for another 20 years. I will party when that happens!

[GreenKToo]

I can't believe any true fan would wish failure on the next Superman film. Especially not even knowing who is directing, writing, or cast in it yet.

[teseract]

I can't believe any true fan would wish failure on the next Superman film. Especially not even knowing who is directing, writing, or cast in it yet.

I'd rather see the movie franchise crash and burn for all eternity than see a reboot travesty. As long as it is a reboot I will not support it even if they hire the greatest director, writer or actor of all time!

[GreenKToo]

why?? Granted, if I disliked the director, cast, etc, I'd most likely skip it too. But, not knowing anything about it, and condemning it is kinda...well...silly.

[teseract]

why?? Granted, if I disliked the director, cast, etc, I'd most likely skip it too. But, not knowing anything about it, and condemning it is kinda...well...silly.

Because it's a reboot, if it were a continuation of the Donnerverse then I wouldn't mind it (it would depend on the portrayal of Superman then, I hated Routh's modern age, post crisis whinerman comic book portrayal)

Donner's movie to me was perfection, in terms of production design, feeling and characterization of Superman, I accept no reboots to that.

Look at Doctor Who, THAT'S how you do it, not with stupid reboots that can never reach the original and just taint the character further!

[Mikelus]

Oh God, we got another trollingboy looking for attention with his "I hate everything that is not like Donner's Superman......" :whatever:

[I Am The Knight]

I can't wait for the day your "dark and edgy" Whinerman reboot will come out and it will be the final nail in the Superman movie franchise for another 20 years. I will party when that happens!

I'd rather see the movie franchise crash and burn for all eternity than see a reboot travesty. As long as it is a reboot I will not support it even if they hire the greatest director, writer or actor of all time!

Because it's a reboot, if it were a continuation of the Donnerverse then I wouldn't mind it (it would depend on the portrayal of Superman then, I hated Routh's modern age, post crisis whinerman comic book portrayal)

Donner's movie to me was perfection, in terms of production design, feeling and characterization of Superman, I accept no reboots to that.

Look at Doctor Who, THAT'S how you do it, not with stupid reboots that can never reach the original and just taint the character further!

LOL! Look at you go! :whatever: Your extremist ways are amusing. Please continue to troll, you half-wit. What's funny is that when the reboot comes out, youll probably be there opening night, and you'll love it! And you will feel dumb, and cry yourself to sleep. How's that sound?

Some of these "fans" are utterly ludicrous.

[teseract]

LOL! Look at you go! :whatever: Your extremist ways are amusing. Please continue to troll, you half-wit. What's funny is that when the reboot comes out, youll probably be there opening night, and you'll love it! And you will feel dumb, and cry yourself to sleep. How's that sound?

Some of these "fans" are utterly ludicrous.

Probably not. I managed to avoid anything after the Byrne Reboot, TAS, Lois and Clark. Smallvile, pretty much any "modern" Superman incarnations. I hate them with a passion and anything that is remotley like the last 20 years of Superman is something I'll GLADLY pass. Heck, the only reason I watched SR was BECAUSE of it's ties to the Donner Movies. And I HATE what SR did to the characterization with a passion. Why should I watch another ****ty "modern" Superman movie that is advertised with things like "dark and realistic"? Oh it will be glorious to see the franchise go down in flames!

[teseract]

..."I hate everything that is not like Donner's Superman......" :whatever:

You got that right. I hate anything modern Superman!

[X Knight]

FOR ALL FELLOW HYPE POSTERS WHO WEREN'T HERE YESTERDAY:

please pay no attention to teseract. he/she = troll

That concludes today's special announcement. Please carry on with your normal discussions.

[I Am The Knight]

Probably not. I managed to avoid anything after the Byrne Reboot, TAS, Lois and Clark. Smallvile, pretty much any "modern" Superman incarnations. I hate them with a passion and anything that is remotley like the last 20 years of Superman is something I'll GLADLY pass. Heck, the only reason I watched SR was BECAUSE of it's ties to the Donner Movies. And I HATE what SR did to the characterization with a passion. Why should I watch another ****ty "modern" Superman movie that is advertised with things like "dark and realistic"? Oh it will be glorious to see the franchise go down in flames!

My, my, did you miss your dose of Xanax, baby?

[teseract]

FOR ALL FELLOW HYPE POSTERS WHO WEREN'T HERE YESTERDAY:

please pay no attention to teseract. he/she = troll

That concludes today's special announcement. Please carry on with your normal discussions.

Ah yes I forgot, if you're not in support of "teh reboot" and if you're disgusted with the whole notion, you're a troll. Well, then so be it, it won't prevent me from posting my thoughts, if I feel in the mood to do so.

[GreenKToo]

Heh, it will if a mod so deems it trolling.

[GreenKToo]

I wouldnt quite go that far, but yeah, it's time to move on.

[teseract]

Dare I Say it? The Donnerverse SUCKS!!!!!!! IT STINKS!!! IT'S OUTDATED!
Its old, and it's not the definitive origin or SUPERMAN.

Those movies are campy, and are only worth watching because of how brilliant Chris Reeve was in the title role.

He IS the best actor EVER to suit up in the Superman suit, and that's hands down! But those movies are from an origin set up over 30 years ago, and while the first two movies were amazing then! They are outdated now.

It's time to move on, and let go...

The Donnerverse is perfection. The mood, characterization, production design, music and feel of the origin sequence will never be matched. It was a one in a lifetime thing where everything fit together. A legendary actor as Jor-El, a beautiful otherwordly and unique Krypton, great visuals and design a wonderful Smallville episode with heart and emotion. Sorry but it simply is impossible to evoke the same grandeur again and anyhting that discards these truly legendary moments of cinema history as well as Superman lore is an abomination to the whole myth!

I'll never move on and I won't let go but I will enjoy every moment of the utter failure the reboot will be!

[Excel]

The Donnerverse is perfection.

:huh:

I disagree.

[teseract]

Heh, it will if a mod so deems it trolling.

Do I look like someone who cares?

[teseract]

:huh:

I disagree.
Name one take on Superman that was better

[StylishHokie21]

I'll never move on and I won't let go but I will enjoy every moment of the utter failure the reboot will be!

Why will it be a failure? Because it's not like Donner's version? That's just ignorant.

[Alonsovich]

Name one take on Superman that was better

The comics. Every single one of them. All 70 years. That's where Superman started... and that's the canon... the rest are just bastardizations... Donner, Smallville, L&C, Singer's... bye, you're wrong... troll...:o

[bunk]

Name one take on Superman that was better


That's incredibly flawed logic. Burton's take on Batman was the best interpretation at the time. It was far from "perfect". Why make anymore movies with Superman then if perfection was already achieved? Why write more stories? Maybe you just want the character retired.

[newmexneon]

Small flashback scenes are a necessity. Everyone already knows the story but it's good to show a little of every part of Superman and his origin is important.

[teseract]

Why will it be a failure? Because it's not like Donner's version? That's just ignorant.
Because if it is even one iota like the last 20 years of "modern" Superman it will be nothing more than presenting an insecure, doubtful cry baby that continuously mopes about Lois or how "it's all too much for him" runs back to his parents, like a little whimpy mama's boy, crying his eyes out or getting punked by every street thug in Metropolis. It will be a Superman with a personality as bland as watery soup and the intellect of a mouth breathing moron. In a nutshell, that's what "modern" Superman is, be it in TAS, Smallvile, Lois and Clark or every other damn incarnation since the Byrne Reboot.

As for the orgin, there is simply no way to make it better, all that will come from it is the destruction of a very unique take on Krypton. The crystal tech was something ONLY Superman had. If someone heard Crystal Spaceship it was immediately associated with Superman and now? The reboot will **** that up, it's gonna be a bland, generic hollywoodsy brand of sci-fi trash, we have seen countless times before in Star Wars or other movies like that. It won't be anything remotely original or unique. You will get an emotionless generic brand of dialogue, instead of the brilliantly deliverd lines Puzzo wrote or even worse something like Smallville *shudders* probably the greatest abomination to the myth that is currently running it's ugly course.

Oh, I bet the effects will look polished and very state of the art but it will be hollow and dead. It will only be a sad testimony to a much better done version.

Not to speak of the countless idiotic ideas like "making Brainiac Kryptonian or have Darkseid be responisble for the destruction" can you get more clichee than that? And corporate Lex? Marvel called, they want the Kingpin back! Evil Corporation Execs are so 80ties.

[teseract]

That's incredibly flawed logic. Burton's take on Batman was the best interpretation at the time. It was far from "perfect". Why make anymore movies with Superman then if perfection was already achieved? Why write more stories? Maybe you just want the character retired.

Burton's Batman never showed the origin, except for a quick snipped. Oh, and on a personal note, I could have lived without BB. I consider Burtons take bettern than BB anyway. Haven't watched TDK yet, so I can't comment on that one.

As for Superman. Don't **** with the Donner origin and characterization of Superman himself, that is all I demand, otherwise feel free to do what you want. There is plenty of potential to tell Superman stories without having to taint a cinema classic.

Let me ask, would you accept a remake of Indiana Jones or Star Wars... you probably would. :whatever:

[Mikelus]

FOR ALL FELLOW HYPE POSTERS WHO WEREN'T HERE YESTERDAY:

please pay no attention to teseract. he/she = troll

That concludes today's special announcement. Please carry on with your normal discussions.


Enough said! ;)

[teseract]

The comics. Every single one of them. All 70 years. That's where Superman started... and that's the canon... the rest are just bastardizations... Donner, Smallville, L&C, Singer's... bye, you're wrong... troll...:o
Nope sorry, the comic origins where all pretty much crap.

Golden Age was too Buck Rodgers like and lacked grandeur. Silver Age was mirred in silly concepts and cheap pathos and Brynes... that was just insulting. Birthright, while having nice visuals was in the end as nasty as Byrnes take.

Smallville is one clichee after the next with ludicrous execution, L&C looked cheap (from what little could be seen), TAS was too much silver age crap and introduced the nasty Brainiac from Krypton bollocks. But what they all have in common, except for Smallville, is the utter lack of imagination. Everything looks like ordiniary sci-fi tech without anything unique.

The execution of the Origin in the comics has sucked in almost every incarnation.

[Spade]

All Star Superman handled it in one page, and it told me everything I needed to know about Superman without being problematic in any way, shape, or form.

[Alonsovich]

Nope sorry, the comic origins where all pretty much crap.

Golden Age was too Buck Rodgers like and lacked grandeur. Silver Age was mirred in silly concepts and cheap pathos and Brynes... that was just insulting. Birthright, while having nice visuals was in the end as nasty as Byrnes take.

Smallville is one clichee after the next with ludicrous execution, L&C looked cheap (from what little could be seen), TAS was too much silver age crap and introduced the nasty Brainiac from Krypton bollocks. But what they all have in common, except for Smallville, is the utter lack of imagination. Everything looks like ordiniary sci-fi tech without anything unique.

The execution of the Origin in the comics has sucked in almost every incarnation.

Amusing... where the f**k did Kent get his journalism degree in STM by the way? In Jor-El university it seems... since when is an ice planet a super advanced civilization? I guess for you the eskimos are the peak of technology...:whatever:

[Spade]

I've chosen to laugh at the Donnerverse clingers in the coming months.

The first Superman film is a classic, but if you think that that's the only Superman worth putting on the big screen then you're not really a fan of Superman. You're a fan of a somewhat flawed adaptation of his story that came to a close a long time ago.

[Mikelus]

Guys, don't feed the Donnerboy troll, is a waste of time.

[X Knight]

didn't you get my memo? ;)

[Timstuff]

Name one take on Superman that was better

No-one has gotten a to make a movie-verse better than Donner's because ninnies like you have turned Donner's into a sacred cow.

[dark_b]

Guys, don't feed the Donnerboy troll, is a waste of time.its only a matter of time.
whait until the great compromiser comes in.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

No-one has gotten a to make a movie-verse better than Donner's because ninnies like you have turned Donner's into a sacred cow.I am quite sick of the Donner's movie can't be topped attitude. Everything Donner must go IMHO.

[teseract]

Amusing... where the f**k did Kent get his journalism degree in STM by the way? In Jor-El university it seems... since when is an ice planet a super advanced civilization? I guess for you the eskimos are the peak of technology...:whatever:

1.) Who the *bleep* cares? Probably the same way Linda got her Orphanage Papers in Supergirl.

2.)Krypton is a crystal Planet and not an Ice Planet and Donner's Krypton at least doesn't have ******** like Firefalls and beasts with a television screen on their Forehead.

[teseract]

I've chosen to laugh at the Donnerverse clingers in the coming months.

The first Superman film is a classic, but if you think that that's the only Superman worth putting on the big screen then you're not really a fan of Superman. You're a fan of a somewhat flawed adaptation of his story that came to a close a long time ago.

Lets see who has the last laugh when you get a "dark" superman in black leather with the "eyes of a caged animal".

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^Thats sounds better than Donner's and Singer's version. Or atleast it's something different.

[teseract]

I am quite sick of the Donner's movie can't be topped attitude. Everything Donner must go IMHO.

Oh you can do that but I won't shell out money for it or support it any other way. And I'll doubt your new version will achieve even a fraction of popularity of STM or its place in cinema history.

^Thats sounds better than Donner's and Singer's version. Or atleast it's something different.
If you really think that you have no idea what Superman is about

Something different just to be differen, great, why not hire Tim Burton so he can make his Borg-Superman Version?

[Chris Wallace]

The comics. Every single one of them. All 70 years. That's where Superman started... and that's the canon... the rest are just bastardizations... Donner, Smallville, L&C, Singer's... bye, you're wrong... troll...:o

Your avi is just disturbing.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Oh you can do that but I won't shell out money for it or support it any other way. And I'll doubt your new version will achieve even a fraction of popularity of STM or its place in cinema history.


If you really think that you have no idea what Superman is about

Something different just to be differen, great, why not hire Tim Burton so he can make his Borg-Superman Version?I was being slightly facetious...because you aren't to be taken seriously.

Donner version of Supes isn't the only legit version. I want a Superman movie but I also want the costume to be altered, because frankly I think that it looks silly as is. I'd keep the red and blue colors and the S though but I want the trunks gone. Unless you can get them to somehow not look silly.

I don't want Crystal Krypton or old ass Jor El.

I don't want Supes to be jesus.

I want Supes depowered because he has gotten far too powerful.

I want Ma and Pa Kent alive. No need to kill off Pa Kent this aint Spider-Man. Or you could make like the old comics and kill both of em off? But I don't want that either so no.

All those differences and it would still be Superman, just not Donner's Superman.

[Mikelus]

its only a matter of time.
whait until the great compromiser comes in.

Yep, the great equalizer should take care of it. :hehe:

[X Knight]

BLASPHEMY I SEE SPIDEY!!! You dare desire a Superman movie world DIFFERENT from the Donner verse???!!! :wow:

(p.s. I pretty much agree with you spot on, I SEE SPIDEY. I, too, am waiting for something different. Not Superman in black leather different, but something new, fresh, while still remaining true to the essence of the character. )

[teseract]

I was being slightly facetious...because you aren't to be taken seriously.

Donner version of Supes isn't the only legit version. I want a Superman movie but I also want the costume to be altered, because frankly I think that it looks silly as is. I'd keep the red and blue colors and the S though but I want the trunks gone. Unless you can get them to somehow not look silly.

I don't want Crystal Krypton or old ass Jor El.

I don't want Supes to be jesus.

I want Supes depowered because he has gotten far too powerful.

I want Ma and Pa Kent alive. No need to kill off Pa Kent this aint Spider-Man. Or you could make like the old comics and kill both of em off? But I don't want that either so no.

All those differences and it would still be Superman, just not Donner's Superman.

Nope it wouldn't. It would be an impostor posing as Superman. Keep your impostors. I prefer the real deal.

Superman in his costume, everything else is NOT Superman

Superman with his crystal tech (because every other version is inferior to the concept)

Brando as Jor-El because his scenes were simply breathtaking

Ma and Pa dead because Superman doesn't need to run home, crying like a wuss every five minutes and because that's how it has been for 70 years of his history before Byrne**** ruined Superman.

Anyway, I have said my piece. Now I'll go silent and watch and when your movie is out and it tanks like TIH did, burying Superman for the next 20 years, I'll enjoy every moment of the handwrining going on here.

[Alonsovich]

Your avi is just disturbing.

That's the point of it... Schumacher's Spider-man...:o

[FlawlessVictory]

Brando as Jor-El because his scenes were simply breathtaking

Yup, it's real breathtaking to hear Brando pronounce "KrypTIN" instead of "KrypTON". :o

[Alonsovich]

Yup, it's real breathtaking to hear Brando pronounce "KrypTIN" instead of "KrypTON". :o

Not to mention how he lisps every time he has to say an "s"...:o

[I Am The Knight]

Nope it wouldn't. It would be an impostor posing as Superman. Keep your impostors. I prefer the real deal.

Superman in his costume, everything else is NOT Superman

Superman with his crystal tech (because every other version is inferior to the concept)

Brando as Jor-El because his scenes were simply breathtaking

Ma and Pa dead because Superman doesn't need to run home, crying like a wuss every five minutes and because that's how it has been for 70 years of his history before Byrne**** ruined Superman.

Anyway, I have said my piece. Now I'll go silent and watch and when your movie is out and it tanks like TIH did, burying Superman for the next 20 years, I'll enjoy every moment of the handwrining going on here.

I should b**** slap you. Would you like that?
Good. Then stop trolling :o

[SatEL]

I should b**** slap you. Would you like that?
Good. Then stop trolling :o

Your only feeding him, simply ignore him and his posts and that puts and end to his trolling.

[teseract]

Your only feeding him, simply ignore him and his posts and that puts and end to his trolling.
Oh, that won't be necessairy. Like I said, I have said my piece, now it's time to watch and when my predictions come true I'll do one last post, gloating. :)

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yup, it's real breathtaking to hear Brando pronounce "KrypTIN" instead of "KrypTON". :oExactly. I want a Jor El that can pronounce the name of his own freakin planet.:cwink:

[SatEL]

Exactly. I want a Jor El that can pronounce the name of his own freakin planet.:cwink:

And preferably one that isnt ready for the retirement home.

[Spade]

I actually prefer an elderly Jor-El and Lara. It makes a nice contrast between the scientific Kryptonians and their muscle-bound Last Son.

[SatEL]

I actually prefer an elderly Jor-El and Lara. It makes a nice contrast between the scientific Kryptonians and their muscle-bound Last Son.

So kryptonians should be frail and seemingly weak?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

And preferably one that isnt ready for the retirement home.Exactly. Whats wrong with Supes dad being young. I mean Superman is a baby when he sends him away. I understand making the Kents older but I don't understand nor care for the old Jor El thing.

[SatEL]

Exactly. Whats wrong with Supes dad being young. I mean Superman is a baby when he sends him away. I understand making the Kents older but I don't understand nor care for the old Jor El thing.

Nothing besides its more plausible to have him young and link that to one of the reasons the counsel members didnt heed his warnings of an impending doom.

[Spade]

So kryptonians should be frail and seemingly weak?

What's wrong with that? They're scientifically minded folk. I don't like the idea that they were all hale and hearty people that were all supermen and -women in their own right. It makes their near-extinction entirely implausible. I prefer the MOS concept, that they're cold and distant and naturally alien in their own right. It shows that Clark is truly an inhabitant of Earth molded by humanity, not just a detached alien who has no place on this planet.

[Timstuff]

I personally don't want the Kents or the Els to be old and decrepit.

[Bulletproof]

Ding-dong the Donner's dead. Let's bring in the young Jor-El!

[Crook]

What's wrong with that? They're scientifically minded folk. I don't like the idea that they were all hale and hearty people that were all supermen and -women in their own right. It makes their near-extinction entirely implausible. I prefer the MOS concept, that they're cold and distant and naturally alien in their own right. It shows that Clark is truly an inhabitant of Earth molded by humanity, not just a detached alien who has no place on this planet.
That makes Krypton and Kal-El's parents entirely unlikable. Why in the world would you want that? It separates him from his heritage, but in a completely wrong way. Emotionally, there has to be a longing to reunite or learn about his people.

Making Kryptonians a one-note species calls for a dull interpretation.

[Bulletproof]

That makes Krypton and Kal-El's parents entirely unlikable. Why in the world would you want that? It separates him from his heritage, but in a completely wrong way. Emotionally, there has to be a longing to reunite or learn about his people.

Making Kryptonians a one-note species calls for a dull interpretation.

EXACTLY :bow: :clap:

[gimmen64]

I'm just glad that we are getting another Superman movie! I loved SR, but I'm game for anything, if they learn from their mistakes and make a movie that will be remembered like S:TM was. I just don't want another re-hash.

[Spade]

That makes Krypton and Kal-El's parents entirely unlikable. Why in the world would you want that? It separates him from his heritage, but in a completely wrong way. Emotionally, there has to be a longing to reunite or learn about his people.

Making Kryptonians a one-note species calls for a dull interpretation.

For one, I never said I wanted to be one-note. Utopian societies can be interesting in their own right without having perpetually smiling people. Furthermore, I don't like the idea of Superman being slave to this idea of great Krypton. It makes it seem like Superman isn't happy enough with humanity and wants to make this New Krypton on Earth. I get that Superman isn't trying to terraform us in most interpretations, but it just makes it harder to like the guy when he's talking to holographic heads on what he should do next like in Johns' movie-inspired take. I prefer the thought that Superman is trying to do the right thing, not just something that worked to a limited extent with another culture. The sensibilities of a higher race without the cold indifference that can come of it. You don't kill off his interest in Krypton, and you still establish deep contrasts. It makes his mission more of a timeless one rather than a "point A to point B" endeavor. It's one thing for the hero to do what's worked before, and another for him to blaze his own path and be truly unique. Superman is supposed to be an oddity- an alien being from outer space raised in the most warm and caring of surroundings. I'd like to see that pushed on every level.

It also opens up more complexity when he does meet others from his culture. Being introduced to an alien culture is one thing, but it's different if you come from a place that isn't known for the emotional spectrum humanity conveys. It'd make it doubly difficult to adjust. But it comes back to the same appeal of personifying the inanimate- the audience can grow to love characters that develop as people before their eyes. That'd be very useful if characters like Supergirl come into play. It also give a natural motivation for Krypton's more villainous survivors: the desire to make this world like their own and to deprive us of things we consider essential on a basic level.

I respect differing opinions on those subjects- everyone has a different opinion on Superman- but I don't think my own is particularly invalid.

[Norm3]

I say a complete origin reboot & dump the crystal planet look as well.

[Katsuro]

I say a complete origin reboot & dump the crystal planet look as well.

I wouldn't mind keeping the crystal planet, simply because it's gone so much further than just the Donnerverse by now. It's been incorporated into the comics, as well as Smallville (even though I hate that show). It's an accepted part of Superman lore now, not just some quirk of the Donner films.

That said, I also wouldn't mind terribly if they went for something new.

As for the costume, I want as little change as possible. Honestly, I kinda wish they could keep the Singer costume. I thought it looked great. The idea of making any drastic changes to Superman's costume is just absurd to me. It's the most iconinc thing ever worn by a fictional character. You cant change it. Blue tights, S shield, red cape, red boots, red trunks, yellow belt. That's what Superman HAS to wear.

[Motown Marvel]

i think the origin being recounted should be dependant on the rest of the film. i can see how an origin would be imperative to a particular story told, especially if the story involves brainiac. but if its being done for the sake of being done, then at least keep it to a minimum.

[Ita-KalEl]

i think the origin being recounted should be dependant on the rest of the film. i can see how an origin would be imperative to a particular story told, especially if the story involves brainiac. but if its being done for the sake of being done, then at least keep it to a minimum.

This is a good point.
For example in the JJ Abram's script the origin was important because of the "prophecy"

[Lazlo Panaflex]

I would prefer a reboot that way Lois' son can be written off.

[SatEL]

What's wrong with that? They're scientifically minded folk. I don't like the idea that they were all hale and hearty people that were all supermen and -women in their own right. It makes their near-extinction entirely implausible. I prefer the MOS concept, that they're cold and distant and naturally alien in their own right. It shows that Clark is truly an inhabitant of Earth molded by humanity, not just a detached alien who has no place on this planet.

What does the above concept have to do with Jor-El been an old man, he can be young and be all those things. Besides I dont think anyone is asking for a "hale and hearty" krypton but instead a more vibrant place that is worthy of an alien civilization such as kryptonians as opposed to ice world.

[Timstuff]

I wouldn't mind keeping the crystal planet, simply because it's gone so much further than just the Donnerverse by now. It's been incorporated into the comics, as well as Smallville (even though I hate that show). It's an accepted part of Superman lore now, not just some quirk of the Donner films.

Personally, I eventually got bored just seeing everything made of white crystals. We've seen it done plenty already. I want to see a different take on Krypton.

Also, if Metallo is in the film, I htink it would be cool if the Metallo alloy is actually Kryptonian in origin. It would help tie him into Superman's world a bit more, and it would also explain why he can take punches from Superman without so much as getting dented.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Personally, I eventually got bored just seeing everything made of white crystals. We've seen it done plenty already. I want to see a different take on Krypton.

Also, if Metallo is in the film, I htink it would be cool if the Metallo alloy is actually Kryptonian in origin. It would help tie him into Superman's world a bit more, and it would also explain why he can take punches from Superman without so much as getting dented.I like your ideas, they are different and interesting.

[BATZARRO WWD]

I wouldn't be bothered if they did the origin, because like all tales, when it's told interestingly enought, even a very known origin is fun. Besides, I was watching Prince of Egypt, and the basic baby moses(danger, baby is sent, baby arrives elsewhere) story took just 7 minutes to tell(with singing). Now, Seeing as Superman's origin is a take on that, substracting the singing, and shortening all that he could be in full Superman mode in roughly 40 minutes. Should certainly take less than the Spider-Man origin.

I'd like Krypton to have sci fi sensibilities to it, but sort of a Edenistic thing to it also. Like a perfect world, balanced and natural, that you wouldn't THINK is about to blow up. Like one of those Watchtower illustrations(minus kids playing soccer), it should be organic and with vegetation, but still technologically advanced.

[X Knight]

more interesting than what Singer did in SR...lol.

btw.....this is slightly off topic, but an interesting tidbit....

I wonder if Singer even watched a single episode of the Animated Superman series. Cuz there was one episode that could have given Singer a plausible "explanation" for his Superman's 5+ year absence.

I think it's the episode where Supes first meets Braniac. But, at the beginning, Supes is working with Star Labs, testing out his restored spacecraft for space travel. He mentions that he just traveled 5+ light years, and the guy at Star labs said he was able to do that in.....get ready....here it comes........4 HOURS!!!!!

IOW....using his ADVANCED KRYPTONIAN SPACECRAFT.....Superman could have made a 5+ light year trip in only 4 HOURS!!

Singer could have easily used a similar scenario for SR. Meaning that Superman only expected to be gone for about 4 or 5 hours or so ( hence why he didn't say goodbye to Lois, etc. ). However, something went horribly wrong with the process and he ended up getting stranded/lost in space for 5+ years.

just an interesting tidbit that I came across when I watched my Animated dvd last night....

[SatEL]

more interesting than what Singer did in SR...lol.

btw.....this is slightly off topic, but an interesting tidbit....

I wonder if Singer even watched a single episode of the Animated Superman series. Cuz there was one episode that could have given Singer a plausible "explanation" for his Superman's 5+ year absence.

I think it's the episode where Supes first meets Braniac. But, at the beginning, Supes is working with Star Labs, testing out his restored spacecraft for space travel. He mentions that he just traveled 5+ light years, and the guy at Star labs said he was able to do that in.....get ready....here it comes........4 HOURS!!!!!

IOW....using his ADVANCED KRYPTONIAN SPACECRAFT.....Superman could have made a 5+ light year trip in only 4 HOURS!!

Singer could have easily used a similar scenario for SR. Meaning that Superman only expected to be gone for about 4 or 5 hours or so ( hence why he didn't say goodbye to Lois, etc. ). However, something went horribly wrong with the process and he ended up getting stranded/lost in space for 5+ years.

just an interesting tidbit that I came across when I watched my Animated dvd last night....
That is brilliant it absolutely is, I would have sympathised more with him if that was the case. If he didnt know he would be gone that long and thats why he left the way he did I would have bought that story without a doubt.

[dark_b]

more interesting than what Singer did in SR...lol.

btw.....this is slightly off topic, but an interesting tidbit....

I wonder if Singer even watched a single episode of the Animated Superman series. Cuz there was one episode that could have given Singer a plausible "explanation" for his Superman's 5+ year absence.

I think it's the episode where Supes first meets Braniac. But, at the beginning, Supes is working with Star Labs, testing out his restored spacecraft for space travel. He mentions that he just traveled 5+ light years, and the guy at Star labs said he was able to do that in.....get ready....here it comes........4 HOURS!!!!!

IOW....using his ADVANCED KRYPTONIAN SPACECRAFT.....Superman could have made a 5+ light year trip in only 4 HOURS!!

Singer could have easily used a similar scenario for SR. Meaning that Superman only expected to be gone for about 4 or 5 hours or so ( hence why he didn't say goodbye to Lois, etc. ). However, something went horribly wrong with the process and he ended up getting stranded/lost in space for 5+ years.

just an interesting tidbit that I came across when I watched my Animated dvd last night....but the point is that Singer wanted a story where superman is gone for 5 years.
it wasnt that he wanted first to kal-el visit krypton.
the point was to have a story where superma ncomes back after years.

you IMO jsut changed to your idea so you could bash it.
no offense but this is how i understand your post.

[Nirvana]

Honestly, for this new reboot (I'm probably in the minority here) I really want to see an Origin story. Show Jor-El talking about how Krypton will be destroyed, tie Brainiac into the destruction of Krypton just like in the Animated Series. Show little Kal-El being thrust onto a spaceship and sent to earth. Show him being raised in Smallville realizing how "different" he is. Show him move to Metropolis and get his job at the Daily Planet. Have Lex Luthor and Metallo be the villains for the film.

And for the sequel, (I've mentioned this idea to my friends and they liked it) go darker. Do the Death of Superman story, have him fight Doomsday to the death. While Superman is recovering in the Fortress of Solitude, Darkseid comes to take over earth and Superman has to come and defeat him. Honestly, I think blending the two could be an extremely dark and epic take on the whole thing. These are my ideas.

Don't flame me. :csad:

[SatEL]

Honestly, for this new reboot (I'm probably in the minority here) I really want to see an Origin story. Show Jor-El talking about how Krypton will be destroyed, tie Brainiac into the destruction of Krypton just like in the Animated Series. Show little Kal-El being thrust onto a spaceship and sent to earth. Show him being raised in Smallville realizing how "different" he is. Show him move to Metropolis and get his job at the Daily Planet. Have Lex Luthor and Metallo be the villains for the film.

And for the sequel, (I've mentioned this idea to my friends and they liked it) go darker. Do the Death of Superman story, have him fight Doomsday to the death. While Superman is recovering in the Fortress of Solitude, Darkseid comes to take over earth and Superman has to come and defeat him. Honestly, I think blending the two could be an extremely dark and epic take on the whole thing. These are my ideas.

Don't flame me. :csad:

You are not alone friend:yay:, I to would love an origin story from Krypton to Metropolis.

[SatEL]

but the point is that Singer wanted a story where superman is gone for 5 years.
it wasnt that he wanted first to kal-el visit krypton.
the point was to have a story where superma ncomes back after years.

you IMO jsut changed to your idea so you could bash it.
no offense but this is how i understand your post.

In his description Superman was still gone for 5yrs he just wasnt a thoughtless ******* about it.

[batman44]

Honestly, for this new reboot (I'm probably in the minority here) I really want to see an Origin story. Show Jor-El talking about how Krypton will be destroyed, tie Brainiac into the destruction of Krypton just like in the Animated Series. Show little Kal-El being thrust onto a spaceship and sent to earth. Show him being raised in Smallville realizing how "different" he is. Show him move to Metropolis and get his job at the Daily Planet. Have Lex Luthor and Metallo be the villains for the film.



Don't flame me. :csad:

I feel the same. I would also add Intergang in the first film.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

In his description Superman was still gone for 5yrs he just wasnt a thoughtless ******* about it.Exactly.

[X Knight]

dark b, you must have misintrepreted my post.

I wasn't trying to "bash" SR.

I was merely pointing how, with a slight change of the story's context ( and based on something that was explained in the Animated episode ), you could have done pretty much the same story of SR. But, Superman would come across as more sympathetic and less irresponsible.

[dark_b]

dark b, you must have misintrepreted my post.

I wasn't trying to "bash" SR.

I was merely pointing how, with a slight change of the story's context ( and based on something that was explained in the Animated episode ), you could have done pretty much the same story of SR. But, Superman would come across as more sympathetic and less irresponsible.
i dont know how but i didnt read this part
''However, something went horribly wrong with the process and he ended up getting stranded/lost in space for 5+ years.
''

so i take my post back. yeah thats a pretty good idea :woot:

[X Knight]

that's ok dark b. that's cool. :)

[CGHulk]

The new film should just tell it's story, everyone knows Superman's origin. The film should just start off once the credits roll, BAM we're in the movie, holy cow, Brainaics or Darseid's or Doomsdays is aproaching Earth!

[dark_b]

The new film should just tell it's story, everyone knows Superman's origin. The film should just start off once the credits roll, BAM we're in the movie, holy cow, Brainaics or Darseid's or Doomsdays is aproaching Earth!make brainiac from krypton or some connection.
that way when talking to hes parents we can get some flashbacks from the farm in smallville.
at the end in the last epic battle the big twist comes and brainiac explains superman how everything happened.
and then we get flashbacks from krypton.

[CGHulk]

edit.

[The Batkilt]

I dunno how I'd want them to tackle the origin if I'm perfectly honest.

A mixture of before the opening credits and flashbacks would do me. Showing Jor-El warning the rest of Krypton of it's destruction and him resorting to sending Kal-El to earth - leading to the opening credits - followed immediately with Superman flying through the sky to erm...do...something....heroic.

Okay, that really did come off the top of my head but still....

[earl-donaldson]

to hell with it...
just make it a long ass movie that includes his origins all the way to the point to where he is curb stomping brainiac... I don't give a ****e... I just want to see a quality movie with substance that displays superman kicking alot of ass. And i want luthor to be a multi billionaire and all that jive.

PS. Don't write on message boards intoxicated

[dark_b]

so the reboot is happening. we all know that the budget for the SR sequel would eb smaller.
now the qustion is what will they do with the reboot. IMO it wont be 200 milions. but at teh same time i dont see that WB would pay 120 miliosn or for example 130 milions.

i think we can expect a budget of 150-170 milions

[CGHulk]

I think they will manage the dollar more wisely like they did with the new Batman films, get more bang for their buck. With alot of live action shooting. More wirework, in camera flying scenes, with live action plate photography used as backgrounds in flying scenes, just making it more believable.

[dark_b]

I think they will manage the dollar more wisely like they did with the new Batman films, get more bang for their buck. With alot of live action shooting. More wirework, in camera flying scenes, with live action plate photography used as backgrounds in flying scenes, just making it more believable.i think that filming outside is more expensier then filming on a greenscreen soundstage or hangers or whatever.
plus wire flying is not realistic enough.
hire ILM.
we have now some test-new version-greenscreen that is basicly not greenscreen but 100 of light make a matte around the body.
ILM or WETA can make the greenscreen flying work to fit with the enviorment.

[CGHulk]

Post production VFX work is more expensive than getting a good shot on a clear summer day. With flying on wires, landings and take off, look at how good Chris Reeve was, you can do digital wire removal, which has been successfully done for almost 20 years. I agree ILM or WETA should do it, but if it can be done with the actual actor, I think it looks better IMO! What I didn't explain clearly in my previous post above is the in camera flying shots I meant the actor infront of bluescreen, but a live action element behind looks better than a CG background, but wait I'm gonna correct myself here, the CG flying blackground plates for Iron Man were great, done by ILM, Here I am eating my own words!

[dark_b]

Post production VFX work is more expensive than getting a good shot on a clear summer day. With flying on wires, landings and take off, look at how good Chris Reeve was, you can do digital wire removal, which has been successfully done for almost 20 years. I agree ILM or WETA should do it, but if it can be done with the actual actor, I think it looks better IMO! What I didn't explain clearly in my previous post above is the in camera flying shots I meant the actor infront of bluescreen, but a live action element behind looks better than a CG background, but wait I'm gonna correct myself here, the CG flying blackground plates for Iron Man were great, done by ILM, Here I am eating my own words!landing and flying of should be wire work on set.
i agree.
plus as much as possible live action plates. i agree. for IM i think ILM even used some planes flying above the clouds and then they cleaned the plates and used them in the movie.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Since this movie is going to be a reboot the WB needs to bite the bullet and just redo Superman all together and that includes his origin. IMO they may lose money with this reboot but in the long run it will only help them. They don't even really have to go into to much detail with his time in Smallville. What they could do is something like Birthright start the movie off with Jor-El and Lara and them sending baby Kal-El off then like Birthright show the Kents finding him and you move on to where he is in his 20's and it will still work. You can have flashbacks here and there of Superman talking with his father or him remembering getting his powers (much like how Singer did) but this movie unlike Hulk needs to be a complete reboot meaning the FOS needs to look different, as well as Krypton, as well Lex and that even goes for the title because people (General Public) think of MOS as the sequel to Returns and they need to change it to show that it isn't. IMO for this movie the villians should be Metallo and Lex and the story should be along the lines of Birthright where the public doesn't trust Superman since he is the first alien they have seen. The ending however should not be Superman flying off into space but instead they should take a page from S:TAS and have the ending show G. Johns Brainiac approaching earth and like in the comics have his ship saying they found someone from Krypton. From there you can also imply like how Johns did in the sequel movie that it was Brainiac who really destroyed Krypton.

But the main thing the WB needs to establish is that this is not a Smallville movie or a sequel or prequel to the other Superman movies. Like Batman Begins this is a reboot and the need to understand as well that they may lose money with this reboot but they should not give up on Superman because of it also just make a sequel and see what happens then.

[BATZARRO WWD]

Agreed. If the origin isn't shown, the audience may have confusion regarding the last movie. Showing an origin that isn't exactly like the old movie halps make the point it's not related.

[VenomsMom]

Since this movie is going to be a reboot the WB needs to bite the bullet and just redo Superman all together and that includes his origin. IMO they may lose money with this reboot but in the long run it will only help them. They don't even really have to go into to much detail with his time in Smallville. What they could do is something like Birthright start the movie off with Jor-El and Lara and them sending baby Kal-El off then like Birthright show the Kents finding him and you move on to where he is in his 20's and it will still work. You can have flashbacks here and there of Superman talking with his father or him remembering getting his powers (much like how Singer did) but this movie unlike Hulk needs to be a complete reboot meaning the FOS needs to look different, as well as Krypton, as well Lex and that even goes for the title because people (General Public) think of MOS as the sequel to Returns and they need to change it to show that it isn't. IMO for this movie the villians should be Metallo and Lex and the story should be along the lines of Birthright where the public doesn't trust Superman since he is the first alien they have seen. The ending however should not be Superman flying off into space but instead they should take a page from S:TAS and have the ending show G. Johns Brainiac approaching earth and like in the comics have his ship saying they found someone from Krypton. From there you can also imply like how Johns did in the sequel movie that it was Brainiac who really destroyed Krypton.

But the main thing the WB needs to establish is that this is not a Smallville movie or a sequel or prequel to the other Superman movies. Like Batman Begins this is a reboot and the need to understand as well that they may lose money with this reboot but they should not give up on Superman because of it also just make a sequel and see what happens then.
I absolutely love this idea. You bring up solid points. This movie has to appear as well as be marketed strongly as a reboot. People must realise there are no connections to previous movies before it and elements must be included for the sequel like an alien threat coming to earth. I agree strongly with you.

[Rust]

Agreed. If the origin isn't shown, the audience may have confusion regarding the last movie. Showing an origin that isn't exactly like the old movie halps make the point it's not related.

You're right, I didn't think about that. I guess they have to do a new origin then and preferably make it a large part of the 1st act in the movie and show a good chunk of Krypton, some history and maybe expand upon how it was really destroyed like mentioned above.

Cool...

[Crook]

I thought this was an interesting piece that USA Today just printed. It talks about the origins of Superman's creation. It ties into what Brad Meltzer was talking about in re-envisioning the character:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2008-08-25-superman-creators_N.htm

The crime that created Superman: Did fatal robbery spawn Man of Steel?
By David Colton, USA TODAY

On the night of June 2, 1932, the world's first superhero was born — not on the mythical planet of Krypton but from a little-known tragedy on the streets of Cleveland.

It was Thursday night, about 8:10 p.m., and Mitchell Siegel, a Jewish immigrant from Lithuania, was in his secondhand clothing store on the near East Side. According to a police report, three men entered. One asked to see a suit of clothes and walked out without paying for it. In the commotion of the robbery, Siegel, 60, fell to the ground and died.

The police report mentions a gunshot being heard. But the coroner, the police and Siegel's wife said Siegel died of a heart attack. No one was ever arrested.

What happened next has exploded some of the longest-held beliefs about the origins of Superman and the two teenage boys, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, who invented America's best-known comic-book hero.

Past accounts suggest Siegel and Shuster, both 17, awkward and unpopular in high school, invented the meek Clark Kent and his powerful alter-ego, Superman, to attract girls and rise above their humble Cleveland beginnings.

But now it appears that the origin might have been more profound — that it was the death of Jerry Siegel's father that pushed the devastated teen to come up with the idea of a "Superman" to right all wrongs.

"In 50 years of interviews, Jerry Siegel never once mentioned that his father died in a robbery," says Brad Meltzer, a best-selling author whose novel, The Book of Lies, due Sept. 2, links the Siegel murder to a biblical conspiracy plot.

"But think about it," Meltzer says. "Your father dies in a robbery, and you invent a bulletproof man who becomes the world's greatest hero. I'm sorry, but there's a story there."

The first 'Superman'

The evidence for such a psychological underpinning is strong.

It was just a year after Mitchell Siegel's death, 1933, that writer Siegel and artist Shuster came up with "The Superman," a grim, flying avenger they tried to sell to newspaper syndicates and publishers for five years. In the oldest surviving artwork, this early Superman, whom they call "the most astounding fiction character of all time," flies to the rescue of a man who is being held up by a masked robber.

Was it Jerry's alter-ego flying to rescue his helpless father?

"America did not get Superman from our greatest legends, but because a boy lost his father," Meltzer says. "Superman came not out of our strength but out of our vulnerability."

The more Meltzer looked, the more intriguing things became. A letter published in The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer on June 3, 1932, the day after the robbery, denounces the need for vigilantes in the harsh days of the Depression. The letter is signed by an A.L. Luther.

"Is that where (Superman foe) Lex Luthor came from?" Meltzer says. "I almost had a heart attack right there. I thought, 'You have to be kidding me!' "

In search of answers

Meltzer was not the only one looking. Comic-book historian Gerard Jones first disclosed the fact of the robbery in 2004 for his book, Men of Tomorrow, after interviews with Siegel's cousins.

"It had to have an effect," Jones says. "Superman's invulnerability to bullets, loss of family, destruction of his homeland — all seem to overlap with Jerry's personal experience. There's a connection there: the loss of a dad as a source for Superman."

Although they never went public, the father's side of the family was told for decades that the elder Siegel had been shot in the robbery. That's the dramatic angle Meltzer takes in his conspiracy novel. Siegel was shot twice in the chest at his store, he writes, and "a puddle of blood seeped toward the door."

In an afterword to his work of fiction, Meltzer concedes that the facts remain murky. In an interview, Meltzer said that some in the family were told "since they were little kids" that Siegel died by gunfire. Others were told he had a heart attack. "It was probably a heart attack," Meltzer said.

And yet Meltzer is not ready to embrace either answer as final.

More definitive is Marc Tyler Nobleman, author with artist Ross MacDonald of this year's illustrated book Boys of Steel: The Creators of Superman, who concludes that Mitchell Siegel died of a heart attack during the robbery. The coroner, he notes, reported "no wounds" on Siegel's body, and the gunshot might not have been related to the robbery.

"I spent a long time going after this," Nobleman says. "I believe I have the first accurate account. Jerry's father wasn't shot and robbed. He had a heart attack during a robbery."

A fortune sold for $130

The rest of the saga of Siegel and Shuster is better known, but no less tragic. It wasn't until 1938 that the familiar red-and-blue-garbed Superman appeared on the cover of Action Comics No. 1. The creators got a check for $130. In return, DC Comics acquired rights to the character "forever."

Siegel and Shuster bristled as Superman grew in popularity — on radio, in wartime cartoons and serials in the 1940s. They went to court several times, winning settlements but never rights to the character. By the 1970s, Siegel had been working as a mail clerk for $7,000 a year, and Shuster was almost blind.

"A shameful legacy," says Blake Bell, author of The World of Steve Ditko, a biography of the co-creator of Spider-Man. Comic-book creators "had no pensions, no contracts, no health benefits, and companies didn't even pay for the artists' supplies. When these artists tried to negotiate greater rights for themselves, they were either collectively cast out or made false promises."

After hearing that Warner Bros. had paid $3 million for the rights to make Superman the Movie in 1975, Siegel and Shuster tried again to reap some benefits. This time, though, they had help from the artistic community and from fans who knew their work.

In a landmark settlement, DC Comics agreed to pay the two men $20,000 a year for life. More important, friends say, DC agreed to add "Superman created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster" on all printed and filmed material in the future.

"Having their names listed as Superman's creators was the biggest victory of all," says Steve Younis, editor of SupermanHomepage.com. "It's worth more than any kind of monetary reimbursement."

The man who helped negotiate the Siegel and Shuster deal was artist Jerry Robinson, who co-created The Joker in 1939 but who received little recognition for decades. (He's now a creative consultant for DC Comics in the wake of The Dark Knight film.)

Robinson says he threw a party in his Manhattan apartment when the Siegel and Shuster settlement was announced.

"Kurt Vonnegut, Jules Pfeiffer, Will Eisner, Eli Wallach and his wife were there," Robinson, 86, says. "Walter Cronkite came on, and they showed Superman flying, and he described what had happened. At the end, he said, 'Another triumph for truth, justice and the American way.'

"We opened Champagne. Jerry and Joe were there, and it was a very emotional moment. There wasn't a dry eye in the place."

The struggle goes on

Michael Uslan, executive producer of the six Batman movies since 1989, including The Dark Knight, says there has been a "sea change" in how corporations view comic books and their creators. "Here you have people in their 80s and 90s seeing their comic-book work being taken seriously," Uslan says. "They are deriving economic benefits now either directly or through consultancies."

Shuster died in 1992 and Siegel in 1996, but their legal battles have been never-ending. In March, a court ruled that Siegel's heirs (wife Joanne and daughter Laura) were entitled to parts of the billion-dollar Superman copyright. Because of the ongoing litigation, neither the families nor DC Comics would comment, not even about Mitchell Siegel's death 76 years ago or its implications.

But in an e-mailed response, the Siegel family did say, "It is gratifying to know people want to know about Jerry Siegel, and that he is getting recognition for his creativity."

_________________________________________

So what does everyone think? Should this be put into consideration when rebooting the franchise? That the character was born out of loss, and the comic book lore followed suit?

[Showtime]

I was just reading that. Great little article.

[X Knight]

very interesting article.

However, I don't think the "born out of loss" idea should be incorporated into the reboot origin.

Not every popular superhero needs to be "born out of loss." Superman should be "born out of hope."

[Timstuff]

That's part of why I don't like the idea of Jonathan Kent dying. Sure, it goes to say something about "there are some things not even Superman can fix," but there are plenty of other ways to do that. Superman is supposed to be the polar opposite of Batman in many ways, and one of them is his origin. Clark Kent's adoptive parents taught him to use his abilities for the betterment of mankind, because it's the right thing to do. Clark loves his parents, so he listens to them and becomes Superman. Bruce Wayne however, lost his parents and vowed to do everything in his power to keep someone else from suffering like he has. You cannot take Batman's origin and apply it to Superman, or you end up with a different character. Superman does not need any motivation to don his costume other than "because it's the right thing to do," because that's how he was raised. There's a reason why Batman calls him "The big blue boy scout."

[SuperDaniel]

I agree...Superman may be created out of loss...I mean, in the real world. But not Clark Kent and the character in faction. One thing has nothing to do with other, IMO.

[Crook]

I wasn't referring to actually copying the real-life origin of the character. Just taking into account the circumstances that would shape the character. Supes can still represent hope and justice, while still holding the loss of loved ones.

[SuperDaniel]

NO. I don't want to see any loss in Superman's life.

[Crook]

Guess you have a real issue with Krypton blowing up. :huh:

[X Knight]

I think we mean.....a loss in Superman's life being the motivator for him becoming Superman.

Krypton's destruction was not a direct motivator for Superman becoming Superman. Not the same way as Uncle Ben's death motivating Peter to use his powers as Spider-man responsibly. Or Bruce's parents' death motivating him to become Batman......

As Timstuff said above, Superman is who he is largely because of his upbringing with the Kents. He should decide to become Superman not because he has to, or is forced to, but because he wants to because he feels it's "the right thing to do."

[Crook]

The death being a motivator in becoming Supes is not what I was talking about, however. It seems like there is a misunderstanding here.

[Showtime]

That's part of why I don't like the idea of Jonathan Kent dying. Sure, it goes to say something about "there are some things not even Superman can fix," but there are plenty of other ways to do that. Superman is supposed to be the polar opposite of Batman in many ways, and one of them is his origin. Clark Kent's adoptive parents taught him to use his abilities for the betterment of mankind, because it's the right thing to do. Clark loves his parents, so he listens to them and becomes Superman. Bruce Wayne however, lost his parents and vowed to do everything in his power to keep someone else from suffering like he has. You cannot take Batman's origin and apply it to Superman, or you end up with a different character. Superman does not need any motivation to don his costume other than "because it's the right thing to do," because that's how he was raised. There's a reason why Batman calls him "The big blue boy scout."

Great post man. I agree.

[X Knight]

oh, ok. sorry Crook. must have misunderstood your post then......lol.

[Nirvana]

That's part of why I don't like the idea of Jonathan Kent dying. Sure, it goes to say something about "there are some things not even Superman can fix," but there are plenty of other ways to do that. Superman is supposed to be the polar opposite of Batman in many ways, and one of them is his origin. Clark Kent's adoptive parents taught him to use his abilities for the betterment of mankind, because it's the right thing to do. Clark loves his parents, so he listens to them and becomes Superman. Bruce Wayne however, lost his parents and vowed to do everything in his power to keep someone else from suffering like he has. You cannot take Batman's origin and apply it to Superman, or you end up with a different character. Superman does not need any motivation to don his costume other than "because it's the right thing to do," because that's how he was raised. There's a reason why Batman calls him "The big blue boy scout."

I totally agree. I think Jonathan Kent should be kept alive.

[GreenKToo]

I'd like for Jonathan to be kept alive in this film. You NEVER get too old to get advice or encouragement from your dad.

[X Knight]

or from your mom. ;)

[GreenKToo]

or from your mom. ;)
So true. :yay:

[BULLITT]

No to origin.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I wouldn't mind an orgin story, then again I wouldn't mind not having one. But I've always said that I'd perfer an orgin story and I'm sticking to that.

[Pickle-El]

10-15 Minute origin/Clark growing up......We need to set up the bulk of the action in Act 1 and get right into the meat of it at about the 15 minute mark. Keep us in the story from the beginning. I don't wanna see the entire first half hour to be an updated Donner Krypton scene. (Plus this will keep the huge cost of creating a CGI Krypton down)

If they are rebooting like they say, there's MILLIONS of possibilities to go after the initial introduction, there's no excuse why this shouldn't be a ".....to the wall" kind of movie from the get-go, bypassing the usual 45 min intro of the main characters.

1st Half of Act 1:

Introduce Where Clark came from, growing up at the barn scenes, a little bit of comedy of him overusing his powers etc, and then end it with Clark about 15 years old running at ridiculous speeds and launching off the ground. (ala S:TAS)

2nd Half of Act1:

START off in the middle of a high-risk situation where Supes is already throwing blows with someone like Metallo. Allow the environment to ALREADY exist.

I don't want to see a film where we have to be fed every storyline from beginning to end. It's more interesting, and has a higher degree of complexity for the audience when you start off the middle of a situation. We're lost, hooked, and want to know what the heck is going on.

(To a degree, the best thing about TDK IMO)

[X Knight]

or, they could have the entire origin narrated by Morgan Freeman.....:oldrazz:

cuz we all know that Freeman's voice is sooooo irrestible as a voiceover, that we just have to stop and listen to what he's narrating....

"And then the male penguins walk 2,000 miles just to look for sex......they walk....and walk....and walk........look at those penguins walk....I wonder what those penguins are thinking......."

Penguin thinking to himself: "WB better not screw up the Superman reboot! Or I'll turn around, walk another 2,000 miles and kick their a****!!"

[dark_b]

should the suit be from krypton materials? or normal materials?

i want to see some damage on the suit.

[thorstone]

I don't want another origin but it will be hard to resist the urge considering it is a total reboot.

[green]

Im not a big fan of doing the origin over in flashbacks or an intro. If you are gonna do an origin do an all out origin. Set the entire film on Krypton, look to Anderson's 'Last Days of Krypton' (the book isnt that great but I do like some of the ideas), set up multiple villains and Kara for future films and have the thing end with Supermans ship crashing on earth. You could also cross over other DC heroes like Martian Manhunter and a Green Lantern. Yeah, I know it'll never happen...a Superman movie without Superman! It just seems a waste of time to try and fit Krypton, the Smallville upbringing and Supermans first introduction into one film without it being repetitve of what's already been done.

[X Knight]

I think a new "origin" is due, considering it will be a reboot.

However, I don't think that you need to do a "linear" origin.

[solidsnake86]

I would like to see an origin, but leave out the krypton origin at the beginning and make it more of a mystery and something he learns throughout the movie. Using brainiac as a villain would allow him to discover where he's from in more detail. I agree with super-bats too, it doesn't need to be linear. I do think that him arriving to the daily planet for the first time is a must and meeting all the for the first time would be a great way to reintroduce the character.

[Saint]

What I'd like to see is Birthright modified to include Brainiac. That's the ultimate Superman movie, as far as I'm concerned. Brainiac would be the connection to Krypton, where he is responsible for it's destruction, having cataloged and destroyed it as is his goal with the rest of he universe, so that he has a monopoly on knowledge. The bottle city could even work, I imagine.

That said, I don't know how I feel about getting a reboot. While Superman Returns was not the movie I wanted, there was a lot of potential there, and it's a shame to see it lost.

[antonydelfini]

I want a restart with the origin of Superman! The first movie is outdated, we need a modern origin for superman.

[Deaths Head II]

I'm kind of iffy on this issue. Personally, I LOVE origin stories. But I know pretty much everyone else hates them. It depends on how they go with the reboot. If they're scrapping everything from the crystal krypton to ghost Jor-El, they might as well. If you leave STM as the definitive Superman origin movie and then change it around its not going to make much sense. Though I'll forgive a simple flashback origin.

[solidsnake86]

I don't think everyone hates them, I think they just have this feeling that they have to wait 40 minutes for the hero to be in costume. But I guarantee that those who watched a good origin movie (I'm looking at you spider-man, batman, and Iron) were not looking at there watch, and if they were its not a good movie. IMO the origin gets the viewer invested in the characters on screen and actually caring about what happens to them.

Using ghost rider as an example, that movie had actors that were supposed to be younger versions of the main characters but looked like they should be staring in the movie and when cage came on I couldnt relate to his loss (the movie sucked anyways but I hope you see my point).

If they just start the viewer in the action with superman in the costume and having him be known to everyone i think it will get the same response as SR if not worse because they will use different actors.

[SuperDaniel]

I'm all for a non linear origin. I dont want the movie to start on Krypton like S:TM.

[solidsnake86]

^totally agree with that. I really think they need to focus on earth in this story with his past being introduced throughout the film. Personally I would rather them go into krypton in detail if zod is a villain to show what the council did in the final hours. For me though it would be better served for a sequel.

[Bulletproof]

What I'd like to see is Birthright modified to include Brainiac. That's the ultimate Superman movie, as far as I'm concerned. Brainiac would be the connection to Krypton, where he is responsible for it's destruction, having cataloged and destroyed it as is his goal with the rest of he universe, so that he has a monopoly on knowledge. The bottle city could even work, I imagine.

Exactly!!!

[AnimatedFury]

You don't need an origin story to get the audience invested in the characters. Just spending time with the character before any action takes place doesn't automatically equal good characterization.

[Crook]

If you're going to re-introduce the franchise back into the public consciousness, it makes no sense to skip the genesis of these characters. There's an entire generation completely unaware of the mythos. It's time to make a modern film that everyone can enjoy on the same page.

[Mostpowerful]

That said, I don't know how I feel about getting a reboot. While Superman Returns was not the movie I wanted, there was a lot of potential there, and it's a shame to see it lost.

I thought you really liked the movie. I remember reading your review, which was very positive, and you even gave it a 10, am I correct?

But I agree with you, there is a lot of potential in SR for great sequels, and Brandon makes a terrific Superman/Clark. But I'm biased since I LOVE the movie.

[Mostpowerful]

I think there's no reason to think that Singer wouldn't deliver a Superman sequel equivalent to how X2 was to X1.

Xmen 1 was in intro film- and did it great. The action was weak, but it got better with the second one.

Similiarly, for my two cents, the only real thing missing from SR was a strong villain to bring out Superman's sense of power. The drama was brilliantly done, imo- but what I hope WB realizes that if every movie is a gamble- (and in a sense it is).... having a filmmaker with Singer's resume is the safest bet around for a sequel to make beaucoup bucks.

I'm still in awe that WB doesn't get that SR COULD have been a SERIOUS boxoffice disaster--- and it wasn't. It was a modest hit---- just like Batman Begins was!!!

Simliarly, just as TDK was able to springboard from the first film, EVERYTHING Singer has said should have totally made WB and fans happy.... he WANTS and INTENDED more action for the sequel.... and had at least TWO (the original writers hinted that there was more than one villain for the sequel at the time they were interviewed) villains planned for the sequel---

What more can anyone ask of Singer to do for a sequel???
He wants to do an action packed sequel with a new villain, and fans (and non-fans) of SR want a new Superman film with more action and a new villain.

Just not a reboot. That's going backwards, even with flashbacks.... not to mention the creative damage of gambling with recasting an unknown.

Singer has a knack for casting unknowns.... but how on earth could WB ASSUME that another actor for a Superman film would have people accepting him right off the bat?

(*If WB wants to use the Hulk 2 example of recasting and rebooting without damage, that doesn't hold water--- because NOBODY thought Eric Bana was the perfect Bruce Banner to begin with! Edward Norton was a lot closer to Banner than Bana... I can't find anyone on the internet who would disagree with that)

Stick with Singer and stick with Routh, imo..... that's the safest bet, if WB cares about stockholders' money.... :o

[sdc10]

Safest bet? just because people saw SR and as u put it was a "modest hit" does not mean that everyone enjoyed it. If people didnt like Routh as Superman what would make them excited for a sequel?

[Spade]

The Dark Knight was rampantly successful for multiple reasons, but the core reason was because people enjoyed the last one as a good change from the horrible Batman & Robin. Superman Returns had nowhere near that level of acceptance. It was widely recognized as better than The Quest for Peace, but when it came to the actual story people's opinions were middling. Ask around, and the opinions of the average person range from "it was okay" to "it sucked." Yes, the complaints had to do with the action. But they also have to do with Singer's portrayl of Superman and the kid. Those are story elements that people didn't want in the Superman mythos. Expanding upon the last film with more action wasn't going to solve that core problem that was turning people away. That's not a prospect that you want to deal with for two more films, assuming they wanted to make a trilogy. Hell, it's hardly one that the studio would want to deal with for one.

While some people may have loved Returns, this was another Hulk from the very getgo. You don't make superhero franchises out of sleepy, overly dramatic films like this.

[the GRIN Reaper]

Not only that ... you don't make a psuedo mucked up sequel to a film from '78, and literally copy it's story and just reformat it with new hidden elements.

[DeFett]

Yes for Superman Starts

[GreenKToo]

I'm kinda warming up to the idea of a reboot. Bring it on.

[SuperZer0]

Reboot = origin story.

[Showtime]

Wait For It...

Superman to be rebooted...again.

[FilmNerdJamie]

http://www.mymoviesequel.com/movies/batman/personalidades/morgan-freeman.jpg

"Didn't you get the memo?"

[FlawlessVictory]

Hmmm, interesting. :ninja:

[Showtime]

...and here...we...GO.

[FlawlessVictory]

:hoboj:

Show and FNJ, you guys holding out on us? :woot:

[Showtime]

Nolan is doing Superman.

[Showtime]

Not directing...but...overseeing the project...

[Showtime]

Here it is...

http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/its-a-bird-its-a-plane-its-chris-nolan-hell-mentor-superman-3-0-while-preparing-3rd-batman/


EXCLUSIVE: Warner Bros is trying to ready its DC Comics stalwart Superman to soar again on the Big Screen, and the studio has turned to Chris Nolan to mentor development of the movie. Our insiders say that the brains behind rebooted Batman has been asked to play a "godfather" role and ensure The Man Of Steel gets off the ground after a 3 1/2-year hiatus. Nolan's leadership of the project can set it in the right direction with the critics and the fans, not to mention at the box office. Besides, Nolan is considered something of a god at Warner Bros and has a strong relationship with the studio after the success of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Though he wasn’t obligated to do so, he gave the studio first crack at his spec script Inception, and Warner Bros was able to buy it before other studios even got a sniff. While Nolan completes that Leonardo DiCaprio-starrer for a July 16th release, he's also hatched an idea for Warner Bros' third Batman installment. Now his brother and frequent collaborator Jonah Nolan, and David Goyer who co-wrote Batman Begins and penned the story for The Dark Knight, are off scripting it. (See 'FlashForward' Showrunner Exits For Features (http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/flashforward-showrunner-exits-for-features/)).


Let us emphasize that Superman 3.0 is in the early stages of development. And we doubt Nolan would direct. This wouldn't be a sequel to Superman Returns but a completely fresh franchise. As one of our insiders reassures: “It would definitely not be a followup to Superman Returns." Nolan coming on board follows a hiatus period for Superman after that 2006 reboot as the studio tried to figure out whether or not to make a sequel to that version starring Brandon Routh directed by Bryan Singer. As recently as this summer, Warner Bros was still contemplating how to proceed. We were told that "Bryan or Brandon are not completely out of it yet. But Warner Bros doesn't have a handle yet on it, either. [Producer] Jon Peters is trying to make something happen since he stands to benefit financially. But they [the studio] need to hear a great story that makes sense." Another insider explained to us, "We know what we don't want to do. But we don't know what we want to do. We learned a lot from the last movie, and we want to get it right this time."


Fans have long been yearning for Superman to finally get the big screen Nolan-ized treatment this classic superhero deserves. Warner Bros clearly has learned from its attempt to follow the mediocre 1978-1985 quartet of movies starring Christopher Reeve and produced by Ilya and Alexander Salkind, with 2006's underwhelming Superman Returns. That inbetween period was plagued by long delays and budget troubles and script misses. In 1997, original Batman director Tim Burton tried to make a Superman movie starring Nicolas Cage. Around 2004, J.J. Abrams wrote a film that was the first leg of a trilogy. Abrams wanted to direct, but had only directed episodes of his TV series (and wouldn't make his feature directing debut until 2006's Mission:Impossible III. McG and Brett Ratner separately were attached to that film. Ratner got closest, but Warner Bros was wary of a budget that swelled to $250 million, and which seemed risky after established star Josh Hartnett turned down the 3-picture deal that could have brought him $100 million in salary. After that, Warner Bros bosses didn't embrace Ratner's s choice of soap opera actor Matt Bomer to star.



Other prominent filmmakers were reportedly in the loop, but Warner Bros never pulled the trigger on the picture until Bryan Singer's involvement. Singer's Superman Returns was respectably reviewed for the genre. But it turned in only $52 million opening weekend, and $391 million worldwide gross. Problem was it cost too much (the budget was reportedly $270 million), and the promotion was lousy (Joel Silver was brought in at the last minute to inject macho into the marketing campaign). Worse, it left diehard fans only "meh" about a sequel starring Routh. Singer fared better, but it seems doubtful he'll be asked for an encore now. After all, Singer is now developing the spinoff X-Men: First Class for 20th Century Fox whose bosses were furious when he took on The Man Of Steel reboot instead of helming X-Men 3. But Singer and the studio subsequently made peace and he's back in the Fox fold and on board.


The restructuring of Warner Bros' business with DC Comics became Warner Bros Pictures Group president Jeff Robinov's first priority since having his contract reupped by Time Warner last summer. Problems have plagued the DC Comics-Warner Bros relationship for more than a decade. But the biggest failure has been to leave the most valuable DC Comics characters in movie development limbo by chaotically starting and stopping development on the high profile live action pics. Most recently, Warner Bros and DC Comics are finally getting their act together as evidenced by the progress on Green Lantern.
Superman 3.0 would test Warner Bros veteran executive Diane Nelson, the head of DC Entertainment Inc, that new company founded to fully realize and integrate the power and value of the DC Comics brand and characters across all media and platforms into Warner Bros Entertainment's content and distribution businesses.

Nelson especially was charged with suping up Superman again because it's way too valuable to leave dormant like this. Besides, the clock is ticking.


Attorney Marc Toberoff, who keeps suing Warner Bros on behalf of creative rightsholders, warns that, in 2013, the Jerome Siegel heirs along with the estate of co-creator Joe Shuster will own the entire original copyright to Superman -- "and neither DC Comics nor Warner Bros will be able to exploit any new Superman works without a license from the Siegels and Shusters". He's also pointed out that, if Warner Bros does not start production on a new Superman sequel or reboot by 2011, the Siegels could sue to recover their damages on the grounds that the deal should have contained a clause in which the rights returned to the owners after a given time if no film was in development. The heirs of Siegel have already been awarded half the copyright for Superman. And in 2013 the heirs of co-creator Joe Shuster get the remaining half. After that, neither DC Comics nor Warner Bros will be able to use Superman without a financial agreement with the heirs. There are also stipulations on what parts of the origins story can be used in future Superman movies and which require re-negotiations with the creators' heirs or estates.



At first, Warner Bros felt no pressure to rush out another Superman pic. As Warner Bros chairman Alan Horn told a court hearing about rights to Superman, he hoped to make another Superman movie but no film was in development, no script had been written, and the earliest he foresaw another Superman film released would be 2012. He told the judge: "We had hopes to keep the character alive and to once again reinvent Superman. Our hope is to develop a Superman property and to try again. What hurt us is that the reviews and so on for the Superman movie did not get the kind of critical acclaim that Batman got, and we have other issues with Superman that concern us."


So Warner Bros is now bringing in Batman's saviour. What Nolan would do with the Superman character and story is intriguing to say the least. And he has the experience necessary of prepping and pepping a played-out franchise. The 2005 Batman Begins grossed $373 million worldwide on a reported $150 million budget. And of course 2008’s The Dark Knight crossed the $1 billion worldwide gross mark on a reported $185 million budget (and Heath Ledger posthumously won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor).



But Batman has always been The Dark Knight. But there's a big difference between Superman's cinematic incarnation and comic-book version. Warner Brothers and DC Comics for a long time weren’t sure which version they liked better. The cinematic version has been squeaky clean, occasionally campy, and has more-or-less unlimited power except when confronted with Kryptonite. The comic book version has some limits on his powers, can be darker, and fights aliens a lot more. Shortly after Dark Knight hit it big, fans assumed that Superman would be taken to the “dark” side as well. That's because Warner Bros mogul Jeff Robinov stressed post-Dark Knight that "we have to look at how to make these movies edgier". One of our insiders interpreted this to say: "He meant more sophisticated."


A more comic-accurate Superman seems like the way to go. No need to worry: Chris Nolan knows what he's doing.