Chloe Sullivan

[Dizagaox]

Given the immense popularity of the character, and DC's official stamp of approval (having bought the rights to the character, and through people like Geoff Johns), should Chloe be a part of the new movie-verse's canon?

This is not a "cast Allison Mack" thread, this is about the character, which would obviously be recast.

In terms of what the character brings to the canon, I think she's more important than Pete or Lana. Chloe is Clark's confidante, both when he is Clark Kent and when he is The Blur, and she recognises Clark's potential and assists where-ever possible. In the comics, Lois doesn't do this until after she learns of his secret identity, and so for many years Clark doesn't have a confidante, only Superman does.

And where-as Clark's parents help develop Clark's moral compass, Chloe goes one step further, and does the things she knows Clark shouldn't do. For example, killing Sebastian (Tess' noisy reporter) after he discovered Clark's secret, seducing Davis Bloom to prevent Doomsday, bringing Green Arrow back from the brink by hiring Roulette, or most recently, killing Tess in the alternative future.

Chloe is prepared to have blood on her hands, so that Superman doesn't. That undying devotion is why I think the character has a place in the canon - no other character can even compare in terms of usefulness, especially during Clark's Year One-era. Does anyone else agree?

[Cousin Itt]

No she's a pointless character.

[Dark_Lord]

No.

[Dizagaox]

No she's a pointless character.
No.
Why do you both think this?

I gave legitimate reasons why she is useful, the least you could do is give reasons why she isn't.

[Man of Tomorrow]

Chloe is absolute garbage on Smallville.

She singlehandedly dragged down "Absolute Justice" with all the focus she got.

She's a bad plot device used for exposition and crappy metaphors.


Immensely popular my ass. The Smallville fanbase should not be considered in regards to this project.


This is 100x times bigger than some low budget shipper drama on CW friday nights.


This thread deserves to be locked away in the Phantom Zone.

[Deaths Head II]

It felt to me like Chloe just took up time that could have been devoted to the other characters. Pete, for example, felt like he was supposed to be a confidant for both Clark and Super-Clark but they spent more time on Chloe on that show and eventually wrote Pete out.

[Man of Tomorrow]

In terms of what the character brings to the canon, I think she's more important than Pete or Lana. Chloe is Clark's confidante, both when he is Clark Kent and when he is The Blur, and she recognises Clark's potential and assists where-ever possible. In the comics, Lois doesn't do this until after she learns of his secret identity, and so for many years Clark doesn't have a confidante, only Superman does.

And where-as Clark's parents help develop Clark's moral compass, Chloe goes one step further, and does the things she knows Clark shouldn't do. For example, killing Sebastian (Tess' noisy reporter) after he discovered Clark's secret, seducing Davis Bloom to prevent Doomsday, bringing Green Arrow back from the brink by hiring Roulette, or most recently, killing Tess in the alternative future.

Chloe is prepared to have blood on her hands, so that Superman doesn't. That undying devotion is why I think the character has a place in the canon - no other character can even compare in terms of usefulness, especially during Clark's Year One-era. Does anyone else agree?


And clearly your knowledge is limited to Smallville's bastardization of the material..


Otherwise you'd know Lana is Clark's friend and confidant in the comics, TAS etc


There is no bloody "Blur" in the Superman mythos and never should be.


The Chloe character would drag down the films so badly, just as she's dead weight on CW's Smallville.


Chloe and SV in general brings nothing of constructive value to this project or to the Superman canon.

Rant over.

[Dark_Lord]

I hate what they've done with Chloe these last couple of seasons. All those reasons you mentioned above (the stuff she's done) is why I don't like her. Things like listening to Clark's phone calls with Lois or what she did with Doomsday. I also hate how they show that she can do anything.

I don't think she's important at all. Especially not more important than Lana (not talking about Smallville, but in general). There's no reason for her to be in the movie.


She's a bad plot device used for exposition and crappy metaphors.

Oh, the metaphors. How I hate it when she speaks using metaphors. Which she does, all the time. It's really annoying.

[Cousin Itt]

Superman has gotten around fine for about 72 years without Chloe Sullivan. Just because she's on that tv show isn't a good enough reason to make her an official part of the story.

[Deaths Head II]

Looking back on it, they kind of made Chloe into what Lana should have been and then made Lana into an unlikable character.

[Man of Tomorrow]

Oh, the metaphors. How I hate it when she's speaks using metaphors. Which she does, all the time. It's really annoying.

She's from a point where ALL the teen drama shows on "The WB" scripted their dialogue like that


It all started with "Dawson's Creek".... remember how they talked :doh:

Epic fail.


Looking back on it, they kind of made Chloe into what Lana should have been and then made Lana into an unlikable character.


Yeah, and in the process ruined them both.

[B]

No, the character doesn't really have any substantial part in Smallville's version of Superman's origin. Shes only really a friend..

Fair enough if they want to mention her in capacity I'd have no problem with that, but as for the character appearing.. no not feeling it.
Besides, people like Pete Ross, Lana Lang etc should all be in this movie before mildly successful characters that have only been developed by Smallville, SR, STM, L&C, TNAS etc.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

This isn't a Harley Quinn situation Chloe is not a good or memorable character.

[NewYorkSpider]

Chloe would just be a waste in the new movie. They need to spend time developing the characters that are actually relevant.

[Showtime]

I kind of like Chloe but she wont end up in a movie.

[Mindreaper21]

Well I feel Chloe deserves a spot in the Superman origin. Since her future is unknown, there's alot that can be done with her character. Once upon a time people said Lois Lane was pointless as well, until her and Clark fell in love and got married. Chloe isn't pointless to me, she's been a big help to Clark on his journey. If she were in the movie she could be anything from Superman's oracle to a super villainess given she still has her powers. I'm all for a new direction, unlike most diehard Superman fans. It's people who bash things too quikly that kills the Superman franchise.

[Sam Fisher]

Chloe is absolute garbage on Smallville.

She singlehandedly dragged down "Absolute Justice" with all the focus she got.

She's a bad plot device used for exposition and crappy metaphors.


Immensely popular my ass. The Smallville fanbase should not be considered in regards to this project.


This is 100x times bigger than some low budget shipper drama on CW friday nights.


This thread deserves to be locked away in the Phantom Zone.:dry:

[NewYorkSpider]

Well I feel Chloe deserves a spot in the Superman origin. Since her future is unknown, there's alot that can be done with her character. Once upon a time people said Lois Lane was pointless as well, until her and Clark fell in love and got married. Chloe isn't pointless to me, she's been a big help to Clark on his journey. If she were in the movie she could be anything from Superman's oracle to a super villainess given she still has her powers. I'm all for a new direction, unlike most diehard Superman fans. It's people who bash things too quikly that kills the Superman franchise.


So you think that Chloe should become a villainess in a future movie? :dry:

We still haven't seen Mettalo, Darkseid, Braniac, Bizzaro and Doomsday in a movie.

[solidsnake86]

I thought they decided against using her in the comics. I would say no just for the simple fact that they don't really need her character or have time for her in a movie. If they do show smallville, its going to be quick and the most important character is lana coupled with showing how he got his powers. I really dislike her character on smallville just for the fact that she almost gets more screen time then clark.

[NewYorkSpider]

DC tried to squeeze her into the comics, but they just didn't see where the stars aligned. If they're not certain about her being in the comics, I doubt they're gonna waste any time bringing her into a movie.

I love the character of Chloe on Smallville, but I just don't think that bringing her into a movie is the right choice at the moment.

[Doc Ock]

I love Chloe and Smallville so I may be a bit biased, I would love to see her in the comics but definitely not a film, at least not so soon. Maybe long after Smallville is over.

[Mindreaper21]

So you think that Chloe should become a villainess in a future movie? :dry:

We still haven't seen Mettalo, Darkseid, Braniac, Bizzaro and Doomsday in a movie.

No I'm just pointing out that her character is very flexable since her future is uncertain.

[Webhead2006]

i have been a big fan of the character on the smallville show. sure the character has had many ups and down through the show's current 9 yr run. I wouldnt be against the character being used in some way in a new film series. Heck could be just another random friend from his highschool days like if they do include pete ross and lana lang into new film series.

[FVD]

I like Chloe and everything but in a movie environment no!!

[Lone]

The Smallville fanbase should not be considered in regards to this project.

:awesome::up:

Let's keep Smallville and anything related to it, where it belongs. :o

[Micah12345]

I always thought chloe was hotter than lana, and I always wished clark would nail her. Just once! But I dont think chloe is an interesting character, and I dont wanna see her outside of smallville.

[Daybreak_st]

Looking back on it, they kind of made Chloe into what Lana should have been and then made Lana into an unlikable character.


Yeah, the way i saw it was using chloe to fill the role Lana played in the comic and combine a little Lois Lane in there for the reporter aspect of the character. Really unnecessary if they'd done lana as she is in the comics.

They preferred doing the lana that clark pines for so they used chloe as the best friend.

You'll notice that as soon as Lois came on board and has a more important role, they've had to come up with increasing odd things for her to do, including setting her up as Oracle/Watchtower (actually Barbara Gordon) for the Smallville version of the DCU.

She will most likely die at some point. Don't get me wrong she works on smallville but she wouldn't fit well into the film version. If anything i want to see a solid lana (red hair and all) in a sequel, and establish that her and clark were best friends as kids.

[Man of Tomorrow]

:dry:

Yeah. Smallville caters to shippers primarily in it's regular 2-3 mil audience.

Much like most shows on CW, save for Supernatural.


The new SUPERMAN movie should be a massive action-driven film that will appeal to the box office masses instead.

The inspiration for this thing should be Dark Knight and (most likely) Ironman 2 (which will be huge no doubt).

[Bad Superman]

I looove Allison Ma. . . . Never mind. :cmad:

[Man of Tomorrow]

I always thought chloe was hotter than lana, and I always wished clark would nail her. Just once! But I dont think chloe is an interesting character, and I dont wanna see her outside of smallville.


I hate SV's Lana with a passion, but it's beyond undeniable that Kristin Kreuk is EASILY the best looking castmember they ever had on that show.

I'm betting that's why the show's producers sucked up to her so badly. Chloe has always been a third wheel to Lana, and an annoying one at that.

Check out Kreuk on Chuck when she's not playing a character as horrible as SV's Lana.

[Doc Ock]

I'm going to be honest, I love every character and aspect of Smallville, I like the fact it doesn't follow the comics and I could care less if it does. Chloe has grown into a useful character IMO, and Lana was great as well. ;)

[SuperDaniel]

LOL. Lana was great? WTF?!?!?!

[kalelkilla]

I think Chloe is gonna die in the end of Smallville, perhaps inspiring Clark to take is mantle as Superman.

[kalelkilla]

I think Chloe is gonna die in the end of Smallville, perhaps inspiring Clark to take his mantle as Superman.

[SatEL]

Started reading the OP initial post and midway through, I noticed I was crushing my computer mouse due to the amount of rage swelling up inside me at the thought of Chloe from Smallville having any part in future Superman mythos.

[Raiden]

I hate SV's Lana with a passion, but it's beyond undeniable that Kristin Kreuk is EASILY the best looking castmember they ever had on that show.

I'm betting that's why the show's producers sucked up to her so badly. Chloe has always been a third wheel to Lana, and an annoying one at that.

Check out Kreuk on Chuck when she's not playing a character as horrible as SV's Lana.

I really like Kristen Kreuk (although that doesn't extend to that Street Fighter movie she did), and I'm really liking her character Hannah on Chuck. Kreuk is beautiful and quite underrated as an actress due to her good looks imo.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Kreuk is sexy, cute, and sweet all in one *drools*

Miss her on the show, she even made the pointless filler episodes watchable :(

[Doc Ock]

I really like Kristen Kreuk (although that doesn't extend to that Street Fighter movie she did), and I'm really liking her character Hannah on Chuck. Kreuk is beautiful and quite underrated as an actress due to her good looks imo.

Kreuk is sexy, cute, and sweet all in one *drools*

Miss her on the show, she even made the pointless filler episodes watchable :(

:up:


I think Kristen is an amazing actor.......Lana is one of my favorite characters on Smallville :O.

[Timstuff]

I always imagined that eventually, Chloe would end up being a government agent who investigates UFOs and other paranormal/metahuman weirdness, and I think that that would be be the best route to go if she was going to appear in the mainstream DC continuity or a movie. I really like Chloe and even though Smallville has jumped the shark, I'd like to think that Chloe could potentially be bigger than the show.

[cronosred]

I like Chloe and If they do an origin movie that shows young Clark it would be nice if they put in a little cameo, but that would be all I would want.

[Dizagaox]

If Chloe's speculated death in Episode 20 is indeed how and why Clark becomes Superman, that idea could work in a reboot movie.

Have Chloe as Clark's best friend, who accepts him for what he is in a non-romantic way, only to be killed part-way through, adding a human layer to Clark's desire to save Metropolis as Superman. And like in 'Smallville', the death of Chloe could be how Clark and Lois are introduced to one-another - DP reporter Lois is investigating the death of her cousin, who was best friends with Clark.

They work together to solve who murdered Chloe, Lois finds Clark to be good at assisting her, Clark lands a job at Daily Planet.

[Dizagaox]

I thought they decided against using her in the comics.
They decided against it because they couldn't get it to work properly. She is meant to be Lois' cousin and Clark's best friend from childhood, not somebody that comes into the story when Clark is in his 30s/40s.

Geoff Johns has already said he wants to work Chloe actively into the Superman storyline, so I imagine the next time he's involved in retconning DCU, she'll be added in a major capacity (beyond her current capacity in DCU of being an off-screen character).

I really dislike her character on smallville just for the fact that she almost gets more screen time then clark.
Despite being the lead actress, Allison Mack's screentime this season to-date clocks only 117 minutes, which is less than half of Tom Welling's 237 minutes. So exaggerate much?

[KaptainKrypton]

Despite being the lead actress, Allison Mack's screentime this season to-date clocks only 117 minutes, which is less than half of Tom Welling's 237 minutes. So exaggerate much?
The fact that you know this really gives me the creeps.

[Dizagaox]

It's easy to find out, a log is kept on KryptonSite.

[SuperMike335!!]

She is actually going to become the evil henchwoman, and human female consort, of Gorilla Grodd.

Yes, her and Grodd are getting together and are going to go Bananas for each other.

She is gettin on some simian love!




http://www.rfi.fr/actuen/images/113/gorilla_432_crossroads.jpg

[Dizagaox]

Unlikely, Darkseid is the next big bad.

[Young Superman]

Chloe should have died at the end of season 3, when the safe house exploded.

[dsfjr1190]

Superman movies and comics don't need Chloe Sullivan.

Hell, Smallville doesn't even need Chloe Sullivan.

Keep her away from the mythos!

[Webhead2006]

it isnt likely she would be in any movies any time soon. Sure i do like the character, and it has been stated by allison dc comics does have the rights to the character and her likeless so if they did want to use the character more it could happen.

[SuperMike335!!]

Why are none of you bald skinny excuses for primates taking my post seriously?

[Ultimate_Superman]

Chloe should not be used in the movies or comics for that matter she has served her purpose and needs to move on. Remember she was brought on for the point to give SV their Lois type of character when they could not use Lois. When Lois was brought aboard she was useless till they made her in to Babs Gordon under a different name. However if you look at the comics and movies sooner or later you will see Batgirl/Babs show up and then what purpose does she have? She really only serves the purpose of people they can not use and it shows.

[Webhead2006]

well they could always do what ever they want with the character if she did show up in comics or movies and not be like how the show has taken the character.

[Doc Ock]

Chloe's name did pop up on Pete's cast in Superman:Secret Origins....

[Dizagaox]

well they could always do what ever they want with the character if she did show up in comics or movies and not be like how the show has taken the character.
People would expect her to be Watchtower, I guess.

[Webhead2006]

yea i was just saying even if the character was used ever in the future it would be up to dc and who ever is writing with the character to do what ever the please with the character.

[Doc Ock]

I think she shouldn't have a vital role but be addressed as a friend of Clarks when he was younger.

[NewYorkSpider]

I think a small nod to Chloe is the best route to take. Maybe showing the Smallville school news paper called The Torch with Chloe's name on it. Something like that.

[Webhead2006]

yea that would be the easiest thing to do just say she was a random highschool buddy. Then later on if they wanted to do more they can do it.

[Ultimate_Superman]

yea that would be the easiest thing to do just say she was a random highschool buddy. Then later on if they wanted to do more they can do it.
So something along the lines of what Superman: Secret Origins did which is something I am all for. Because if they did it any other way then she would be Chloe or at least the Chloe we know. I still think they should have stuck to the plain they had before they killed off Superboy and used her as Conner's Lana. That is how she was really suppose to be introduced into the DCU.

[Mr. Earle]

In terms of what the character brings to the canon, I think she's more important than Pete or Lana. Ahem... :o

Anyway, first of all let me clarify that i HATE Smallville. But on the other hand i cant stand the typical Superman origin where Clark is raised all alone in a farm and gets Lana as a girlfriend. If they re going to show his Smallville years, his school, Lana, etc, then why not add Chloe and Pete as Clark's friends? Even if the school jockeys make fun of him, he should have some friends right?
But other than the simple role of being Clark's school friends, Chloe and Pete shouldnt have anything more to do. That's all. Is that so bad?

The same goes with Batman and Rachel. Ok, Nolan didnt write her that well, but the point stands. Bruce couldnt have grown up in the manor all by himself. He should have a friend to lean on, someone to try and help him get through this like Rachel. I always liked Rachel for that reason and also for making it hard for Bruce to devote himself to Batman. Not necessarily because he wants to be with her, but as "look at my friend Rachel. She is having a normal and happy life. Maybe i should do the same. Maybe dressing up as a bat is stupid". You know, the typical doubts that come with every new start.

[Frodo]

While I'm not for Chloe appearing in this reboot , I'm not against her showing up in the future. Chloe has been a vital part to the success of SV and after almost 10 years ,i'd say she's earned her place in the DC Canon as far as i'm concerned . Harley Quinn was created for BTAS and is now a crucial part of the Joker myths .

[Daybreak_st]

Yeah i like chloe. If anything i'd use a scene of clark joining the school paper with her as the editor or a piece of dialogue where someone asks how he started in journalism and says his editor in high school or college got him involved. Her name was chloe sullivan.

Something like that would be simple enough. Also if she was to make her way into the DCU then i do like the idea of going to school with conner. That's pretty brilliant!

[Man of Tomorrow]

BTAS was a brilliant, ground-breaking television series that earned the respect of all comic fans and stayed true to the material. It is worthy of tribute.


Smallville is a shipper-centered soap on the CW that now adapts elements from the DC sandbox in a desperate attempt to stay afloat with 'meh' to mixed results.

And even among that, Chloe Sullivan is one of the show's least favorable elements, she only resonates with shippers of the show who couldn't care less about DC Comics or the mythos.


She isn't worthy of tribute or mention in an actual Superman movie. She's beyond irrelevant to the Superman mythos.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Yeah i like chloe. If anything i'd use a scene of clark joining the school paper with her as the editor or a piece of dialogue where someone asks how he started in journalism and says his editor in high school or college got him involved. Her name was chloe sullivan.

Something like that would be simple enough. Also if she was to make her way into the DCU then i do like the idea of going to school with conner. That's pretty brilliant!Thats how she was supposed to be introduced before IC. Superboy was suppose to be getting his own series again and Chloe was suppose to be in it. However when they chose to kill him off instead of Dick things changed and now you have Chloe INO in Secret Origins.

[Frodo]

BTAS was a brilliant, ground-breaking television series that earned the respect of all comic fans and stayed true to the material. It is worthy of tribute.


Smallville is a shipper-centered soap on the CW that now adapts elements from the DC sandbox in a desperate attempt to stay afloat with 'meh' to mixed results.

And even among that, Chloe Sullivan is one of the show's least favorable elements, she only resonates with shippers of the show who couldn't care less about DC Comics or the mythos.


She isn't worthy of tribute or mention in an actual Superman movie. She's beyond irrelevant to the Superman mythos.

I guess I like it more then you do.Lol. I think SV was at it's best the first 4 years and is a part of the overall Superman myths though I agree the show has had more valleys then peaks. What they did with Lex without a doubt imo is the best the character has been in any live action version imo . That said, a Chloe mention isn't exactly a burning issue in the new film.

[Daybreak_st]

BTAS was a brilliant, ground-breaking television series that earned the respect of all comic fans and stayed true to the material. It is worthy of tribute.


Smallville is a shipper-centered soap on the CW that now adapts elements from the DC sandbox in a desperate attempt to stay afloat with 'meh' to mixed results.



Smallville has featured a lot of crap that's for sure. But for a television about the young adventures of superman they've done a pretty good job. The main problems with them include the following:

1. budget - they'll never be able to fully create the world superman inhabits on a television show budget (even though they've done a great job working around it and have generated some amazing effects along the way). and

2. editorial mandate - i don't think they'll be allowed to show him as superman until the series finale. So they've had to think of ways to make the show interesting while "retarding" his development so to speak. Its been on of the most frustrating elements of the show, seasons 6 - 7, really suffered from this, only good this was the introduction of the justice league, but with clark being more proactive, operating in metropolis in season 8 and now in season 9 having a makeshift costume the show has managed to save itself to a degree. Just saying they've done some things right but as long as those 2 obstacles stand in the way i don't think smallville will ever really be superman though it has been a great elseworlds type storyline.

3. bad storylines and unused potential. Smallville has had all the resources to be a great television series but really jump the shark in later seasons. They had some of the worst storylines with lana, constantly making up reasons to keep her around rather than letting her go around season 3. Season 6 is an example of unused potential when several people escaped the phantom zone. That was a great setup for some nice clark confrontations with a variety of villains (maybe even introduce the comic characters) also you could've had a great Martian Manhunter /clark team up during the season but that whole season was devouted to lex and lana crap.

[Webhead2006]

yea it has had its up and downs, i still love the show alot even with its faults, but no show is ever 100% perfect. As for the chloe character as i said there isnt any real harm if she was included into the comics or a mention in films. The least they could do is just have her been a highschool friend/buddy. Or come up with something else the show hasnt done with the character. Heck i am sure comics harley is a bit different then the animated one right? What the show done with the character doesnt really dicate what comics or future movies/cartoon/etc... could do with the character.

[Ultimate_Superman]

yea it has had its up and downs, i still love the show alot even with its faults, but no show is ever 100% perfect. As for the chloe character as i said there isnt any real harm if she was included into the comics or a mention in films. The least they could do is just have her been a highschool friend/buddy. Or come up with something else the show hasnt done with the character. Heck i am sure comics harley is a bit different then the animated one right? What the show done with the character doesnt really dicate what comics or future movies/cartoon/etc... could do with the character.Acutally Harley is pretty much like how she was in BTAS just written more for adults and teens. Where she is the Joker's sidekick but is not all evil as well. As I have said the issue with Chloe is that she is pretty much used as the person they can not have so Chloe becomes them. Example first Lois and now Babs Gordon. If Chloe was like Mercy or Harley where she was her own person from start to finish then you are looking at a different case but if you build off of her in the comics or movies then it will be Chloe in name only because she would not be like her TV she would have to morph almost into someone completely different. Which is why I said they way she has been done in Secret Origins is the right way to go or how they were going to use her with Superboy.

[Webhead2006]

oh ok yea i dont know how she is in comics since i never read any dc stories she was apart of. So i dont know how she was there.

[TheWatcher]

Honorable mention.

[Daybreak_st]

Smallville at it's best is when it embraces it's comic book roots and runs with it. Episodes like the season 4 episode where lex is split in two and we get to see the fully developed evil lex is simply classic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALtCw1yvm8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALtCw1yvm8)

Season 7 first episode when clark fights bizarro, fantastic, and when clark rescues the unconscious fisherman and his son from the title wave, best superman moment ever on the show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk_KR1kfYUs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk_KR1kfYUs)

And for anyone who constantly hates on the show please direct me a live action superman that doesn't botch at least one element.

The big climax to S:TM was him turning the earth backwards! REally? Yeah, talk about a satifying climax there.

Ending of supes 2, kissing lois to make her forget...when did he get that power. Plus the fight scenes were always weak in the old movies.

Supes 3 and 4...don't get me started.

For a TV show smallville's done a good job but not nearly as good as it could've been. Sorry for going off topic.

[Doc Ock]

BTAS was a brilliant, ground-breaking television series that earned the respect of all comic fans and stayed true to the material. It is worthy of tribute.


Smallville is a shipper-centered soap on the CW that now adapts elements from the DC sandbox in a desperate attempt to stay afloat with 'meh' to mixed results.

And even among that, Chloe Sullivan is one of the show's least favorable elements, she only resonates with shippers of the show who couldn't care less about DC Comics or the mythos.


She isn't worthy of tribute or mention in an actual Superman movie. She's beyond irrelevant to the Superman mythos.

Well that most certainly isn't true, Chloe is one of my favorite characters on Smallville and I care about the Superman mythos.

Not all shows and movies have to follow the mythos. ;)

[Mr. Earle]

BTAS was a brilliant, ground-breaking television series that earned the respect of all comic fans and stayed true to the material. It is worthy of tribute.


Smallville is a shipper-centered soap on the CW that now adapts elements from the DC sandbox in a desperate attempt to stay afloat with 'meh' to mixed results.

And even among that, Chloe Sullivan is one of the show's least favorable elements, she only resonates with shippers of the show who couldn't care less about DC Comics or the mythos.


She isn't worthy of tribute or mention in an actual Superman movie. She's beyond irrelevant to the Superman mythos.I totally agree with what you re saying. All i was saying is that if they adress Clark's highschool years, then they should definitely give him friends. He shouldnt be the lonely, miserable guy he was in the Donnerverse. And if he's going to have friends, why not put Chloe there? I'd settle for nameless friends too.

[Man of Tomorrow]

Clark has Pete and Lana as his close highschool friends. It's always been that way in the mythos.

[Man of Tomorrow]

I guess I like it more then you do.Lol. I think SV was at it's best the first 4 years and is a part of the overall Superman myths though I agree the show has had more valleys then peaks. What they did with Lex without a doubt imo is the best the character has been in any live action version imo . That said, a Chloe mention isn't exactly a burning issue in the new film.


Season 4 was absolute garbage.

[Daybreak_st]

Yes season 4 was crap but it had a few good episodes. You can't argue with this being a great scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALtCw1yvm8

[Webhead2006]

true pete and lana are his main friends from the mythos and all that, but it wouldnt hurt to say he had more friends, or was a big sports jock or something.

[Frodo]

Season 4 was absolute garbage.

I liked the first few episodes with Lois and some others through out but basically I wouldn't rate it well either but , I still liked the first four seasons.

[Doc Ock]

I like every season. :cool:

[Webhead2006]

yea for me i like every season some have their ups and downs like for season 4 for me the whole witch subplot was stupid, then season 7 the whole vertias storyline, season 8 was the way doomsday storyline ended. But so far season 9 has been pretty solid.

[Lucid]

Why do you both think this?

I gave legitimate reasons why she is useful, the least you could do is give reasons why she isn't.Haha, welcome to internet message boards, where ignorant morons think that, since they can type, they're experts on everything. I've been wasting time asking for substantive explanations of "opinions' for years. I can't count how many times I've actually wrote, "Did you even read my last post?" Enjoy dealing with 12-year-olds, both inside and out.

On topic, Man of Tomorrow is right. In the comics, Lana is Clark's confidant. Chloe is superfluous.

[Mr. Earle]

Chloe should just be one of Clark's friends along with Pete, if anything at all. Lana is his confident and high school sweetheart.I like every season. :cool::wow:

[Webhead2006]

yea i said it before there isnt much harm if they just make her what she was in early seasons of smallville a close friend along with the mythos pete/lana lang if she appeared in other mediums down the road. IF they wanted to do more ok but the character doesnt have to be just defined as how smallville has taken the character in the later yrs.

[Young Superman]

Agreed

[Man of Tomorrow]

I liked the first few episodes with Lois and some others through out but basically I wouldn't rate it well either but , I still liked the first four seasons.

The first few episodes with Lois were painfully bad; the Krypto cheerleaders turning jocks into slaves? the krypto plastic surgery?

Lana's lame witch storyline taking center stage turned S4 to crap. It was just cringeworthy.

Even worse when they kept calling SV's Lana "the chosen one" :doh: Epic fail.

Yes season 4 was crap but it had a few good episodes. You can't argue with this being a great scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALtCw1yvm8


It isn't a great scene. It's an empty one. It's just a tease amounting to nothing. Lex isn't his true self, similar to S3's "Shattered" and "Asylum," so nothing here led to anything of consequence. It's just predictable and cliche filler.

[Dizagaox]

Geoff Johns is now Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment. He is also one of Chloe's biggest fans. So...

[Webhead2006]

Well if he wants to get her added more into the comics or other mediums best of luck. There is a wide variety of stuff they could do with the character if they want.

[Rodrigo90]

Alison Mack...I dont wether to kiss her or slap her.:woot:

[Daybreak_st]

The first few episodes with Lois were painfully bad; the Krypto cheerleaders turning jocks into slaves? the krypto plastic surgery?

Lana's lame witch storyline taking center stage turned S4 to crap. It was just cringeworthy.

Even worse when they kept calling SV's Lana "the chosen one" :doh: Epic fail.




It isn't a great scene. It's an empty one. It's just a tease amounting to nothing. Lex isn't his true self, similar to S3's "Shattered" and "Asylum," so nothing here led to anything of consequence. It's just predictable and cliche filler.


Dude you're just in denial, it's a great scene and you know it. Probably the best live action luthor ever, didn't need to lead to anything, just look at the scene as it is. Solid stuff. But obviously you've got got a biased opinion rather than an open minded one. :huh:

[Doc Ock]

Geoff Johns is now Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment. He is also one of Chloe's biggest fans. So...

Sweet! :D Sounds good to me!

[Mr. Earle]

If i may have a say in this, Smallville is a piece of CRAP.
That said, Rosenbaum's Lex is very good. The dude even played Flash in the JL cartoon, and left SV because he couldnt stand the bullcrap that they were doing. If anything that speaks volumes about his interest in his role and comics in general.
I respect his Lex, but not what the show has done with him. And to be honest, Lex shouldnt even be acquainted with Clark as teenagers. He's Superman's villain, not Clark's.

[Doc Ock]

If i may have a say in this, Smallville is a piece of CRAP.
That said, Rosenbaum's Lex is very good. The dude even played Flash in the JL cartoon, and left SV because he couldnt stand the bullcrap that they were doing. If anything that speaks volumes about his interest in his role and comics in general.
I respect his Lex, but not what the show has done with him. And to be honest, Lex shouldnt even be acquainted with Clark as teenagers. He's Superman's villain, not Clark's.

Yes, people can have different opinions. ;)

I like the fact Smallville doesn't follow the comics, following the mythos is never required IMO. Smallville is its own mythos.

[Daybreak_st]

If i may have a say in this, Smallville is a piece of CRAP.
That said, Rosenbaum's Lex is very good. The dude even played Flash in the JL cartoon, and left SV because he couldnt stand the bullcrap that they were doing. If anything that speaks volumes about his interest in his role and comics in general.
I respect his Lex, but not what the show has done with him. And to be honest, Lex shouldnt even be acquainted with Clark as teenagers. He's Superman's villain, not Clark's.


Yeah i agree with you on lex, best version in live action so far. Smallville is a mixed bag as some have said. I even quit watching during season 8 due to all the davis bloome crap. I do however think smallville has had its occassional moments of greatest. One such moment was posted above.:cwink:

[Mr. Earle]

Yes, people can have different opinions. ;)

I like the fact Smallville doesn't follow the comics, following the mythos is never required IMO. Smallville is its own mythos.
It doesnt matter that it doesnt follow the canon. Its crap regardless. Yeah i agree with you on lex, best version in live action so far. Smallville is a mixed bag as some have said. I even quit watching during season 8 due to all the davis bloome crap. I do however think smallville has had its occassional moments of greatest. One such moment was posted above.:cwink:
Nice moment although i was confused about Lex locking himself up and whatever it is he was talking about.
And anyway, why is everyone in Smallville so obsessed with Clark's secret? I mean, shouldnt they be filled with hormones instead of wondering why Clark is always late or whatever?
Lana was especially irritating about this. She had no reason to suspect anything and yet "tell me your secret, your secret, i want to know, your secret is keeping us apart, SECRETSECRETSECRETSECRET". :cmad::cmad::cmad:

When half the people in SV have powers, shouldnt they have figured it out? Whatever....

[Doc Ock]

It doesnt matter that it doesnt follow the canon. It matters that its pure crap.


In your opinion. ;)

[That-Guy]

No.

I hate Smallville. It's a joke.

And I hate the name Chloe.

[Man of Tomorrow]

Dude you're just in denial, it's a great scene and you know it. Probably the best live action luthor ever, didn't need to lead to anything, just look at the scene as it is. Solid stuff. But obviously you've got got a biased opinion rather than an open minded one. :huh:


No lie, I was honestly rolling my eyes when I saw that scene.


I admit Rosenbaum is a talented actor, perhaps easily the best actor on that show, but given the context that it was just an empty tease, I really couldn't care less.


Especially since we already saw the psychotic/evil/unstable side of Lex in Season 3, also in an altered state. It just seemed like redux.


"Shattered" and "Memoria" are better Lex episodes, Rosenbaum really delivers in those.


It's a shame after everything they tried to built up with Lex, it ended with this pathetic final scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbaZCWpqrs


Felt like a waste of seven years of buildup and a horrible exit for Rosenbaum. Oh well.

[Man of Tomorrow]

It doesnt matter that it doesnt follow the canon. Its crap regardless.




Honestly, I don't have a problem with changing aspects from the mythos, taking liberties and whatnot as long as they are good changes.


I can honestly say most of the liberties that SV has taken have been 'meh' or really bad.

Ex:

- Lois going to highschool and growing up with Clark since S4, being an older sister figure to him for years in Smallville. No way the glasses and reporter disguise would work now.

- Failsday; Davis Bloome. Turning Doomsday into a human and his horrible arc with Chloe.

- the characterization of Lana for seven seasons; leading to her getting super stength, speed, invulnerability and kryptonite power in her final episode. Having her witch storyline tie with the Fortress crystals.

- The 'fake' Jimmy Olsen

- Chloe's overall central importance in everything in the SV universe. Bossing Clark around for years and now, the league.

- Making Lex into a jealous brother figure to Clark who was born into money; there was potential with this one but it was executed so poorly.

- Kara appearing when Clark is still in Smallville, Supergirl being the same age as Clark. That's why they had to write her off the series in such an abrupt manner. Turning Zor-El into a villian who was lusting after Lara was bizarre too.

- SV's Pete Ross.. another fail

- Meteor freaks.. and the 10 million different and contrived affects of Kryptonite exposure.

- Jor-El (being a bastard) and Clark (being Lana obsessed) being reponsible for Jonathan's life being taken

etc.... the list is too long



I hate this whole Red-Blue Blur/The Blur nonsense too. It's just so incredibly lame.


Anyway, none of this stuff will be in the Superman movie, so I suppose it's all moot.

[Mr. Earle]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with changing aspects from the mythos, taking liberties and whatnot as long as they are good changes.


I can honestly say most of the liberties that SV has taken have been 'meh' or really bad.

Ex:

- Lois going to highschool and growing up with Clark since S4, being an older sister figure to him for years in Smallville. No way the glasses and reporter disguise would work now.

- Failsday; Davis Bloome. Turning Doomsday into a human and his horrible arc with Chloe.

- the characterization of Lana for seven seasons; leading to her getting super stength, speed, invulnerability and kryptonite power in her final episode. Having her witch storyline tie with the Fortress crystals.

- The 'fake' Jimmy Olsen

- Chloe's overall central importance in everything in the SV universe. Bossing Clark around for years and now, the league.

- Making Lex into a jealous brother figure to Clark who was born into money; there was potential with this one but it was executed so poorly.

- Kara appearing when Clark is still in Smallville, Supergirl being the same age as Clark. That's why they had to write her off the series in such an abrupt manner. Turning Zor-El into a villian who was lusting after Lara was bizarre too.

- SV's Pete Ross.. another fail

- Meteor freaks.. and the 10 million different and contrived affects of Kryptonite exposure.

- Jor-El (being a bastard) and Clark (being Lana obsessed) being reponsible for Jonathan's life being taken

etc.... the list is too long



I hate this whole Red-Blue Blur/The Blur nonsense too. It's just so incredibly lame.


Anyway, none of this stuff will be in the Superman movie, so I suppose it's all moot.
Its not the changes or if the changes are for the better or worse. Its that everything is done in a bad way. The writing is just so bad!

Also, lol at "Faisday". More like Hulk, amirite?

[Daybreak_st]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with changing aspects from the mythos, taking liberties and whatnot as long as they are good changes.


I can honestly say most of the liberties that SV has taken have been 'meh' or really bad.

Ex:

- Lois going to highschool and growing up with Clark since S4, being an older sister figure to him for years in Smallville. No way the glasses and reporter disguise would work now.

- Failsday; Davis Bloome. Turning Doomsday into a human and his horrible arc with Chloe.

- the characterization of Lana for seven seasons; leading to her getting super stength, speed, invulnerability and kryptonite power in her final episode. Having her witch storyline tie with the Fortress crystals.

- The 'fake' Jimmy Olsen

- Chloe's overall central importance in everything in the SV universe. Bossing Clark around for years and now, the league.

- Making Lex into a jealous brother figure to Clark who was born into money; there was potential with this one but it was executed so poorly.

- Kara appearing when Clark is still in Smallville, Supergirl being the same age as Clark. That's why they had to write her off the series in such an abrupt manner. Turning Zor-El into a villian who was lusting after Lara was bizarre too.

- SV's Pete Ross.. another fail

- Meteor freaks.. and the 10 million different and contrived affects of Kryptonite exposure.

- Jor-El (being a bastard) and Clark (being Lana obsessed) being reponsible for Jonathan's life being taken

etc.... the list is too long



I hate this whole Red-Blue Blur/The Blur nonsense too. It's just so incredibly lame.


Anyway, none of this stuff will be in the Superman movie, so I suppose it's all moot.

yeah i see your point and pretty much agree. I guess i just like specific episode, but your right i hate that last scene you posted, after all that build up...meh.

[Doc Ock]

Well I suppose anything I say would be turned against me, but I truly do love everything about the show.

[Webhead2006]

Sure its everyone opinions on what they like and dont like. Heck i enjoy smallville alot. But i do agree there has been many times it has dropped the ball on things. But there has been alot of good too. Plus the show has the advance of looking at all things from superman comics mythos and taking different things out and using them while then putting their own spin on things. Yes i dont like when they have screwed up on stuff like the whole superlana, to the human doomsday thing. But for the many good things the show has done.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with changing aspects from the mythos, taking liberties and whatnot as long as they are good changes.


I can honestly say most of the liberties that SV has taken have been 'meh' or really bad.

Ex:

- Lois going to highschool and growing up with Clark since S4, being an older sister figure to him for years in Smallville. No way the glasses and reporter disguise would work now.

- Failsday; Davis Bloome. Turning Doomsday into a human and his horrible arc with Chloe.

- the characterization of Lana for seven seasons; leading to her getting super stength, speed, invulnerability and kryptonite power in her final episode. Having her witch storyline tie with the Fortress crystals.

- The 'fake' Jimmy Olsen

- Chloe's overall central importance in everything in the SV universe. Bossing Clark around for years and now, the league.

- Making Lex into a jealous brother figure to Clark who was born into money; there was potential with this one but it was executed so poorly.

- Kara appearing when Clark is still in Smallville, Supergirl being the same age as Clark. That's why they had to write her off the series in such an abrupt manner. Turning Zor-El into a villian who was lusting after Lara was bizarre too.

- SV's Pete Ross.. another fail

- Meteor freaks.. and the 10 million different and contrived affects of Kryptonite exposure.

- Jor-El (being a bastard) and Clark (being Lana obsessed) being reponsible for Jonathan's life being taken

etc.... the list is too long



I hate this whole Red-Blue Blur/The Blur nonsense too. It's just so incredibly lame.


Anyway, none of this stuff will be in the Superman movie, so I suppose it's all moot.
My main problems with SV Lois was that she was pretty much the women every hero got a turn with. The brother sister thing I was not okay with but understood given that during the time Singer was doing Superman and they had a rule that Lois and Clark could not be together. But the as I said before what gets me is how much of a **** they made her to be. In the comics, movies or even on TV she was never portrayed to be the pillow talk for the whole JL as she is on SV which is sad. Other then that I think SV is a great show if you look at it as an elseworld like how I had to do with Superman Returns which I think is a great movie. The main problems with SV though is when they mess up they really mess up that it over shadows all their good they have done. Which is sad. Although half of the things in SV you can't blame on the producers when the show first started they were suppose to match up to the Superman movie they were going to make before Returns I think McG's movie so how Jor-El is portrayed and all kind of matches up with how Krypton was suppose to be meaning Jor-El was suppose to be the leader of Krypton and tough even though he loved his son.

[Mikelus]

Acutally Harley is pretty much like how she was in BTAS just written more for adults and teens. Where she is the Joker's sidekick but is not all evil as well. As I have said the issue with Chloe is that she is pretty much used as the person they can not have so Chloe becomes them. Example first Lois and now Babs Gordon. If Chloe was like Mercy or Harley where she was her own person from start to finish then you are looking at a different case but if you build off of her in the comics or movies then it will be Chloe in name only because she would not be like her TV she would have to morph almost into someone completely different. Which is why I said they way she has been done in Secret Origins is the right way to go or how they were going to use her with Superboy.

Agreed, that would be the best way to go, otherwise they would have to change the mythos too much, which is unnecessary.

[Daybreak_st]

Sure its everyone opinions on what they like and dont like. Heck i enjoy smallville alot. But i do agree there has been many times it has dropped the ball on things. But there has been alot of good too. Plus the show has the advance of looking at all things from superman comics mythos and taking different things out and using them while then putting their own spin on things. Yes i dont like when they have screwed up on stuff like the whole superlana, to the human doomsday thing. But for the many good things the show has done.


yeah smallville has its merits. I have all seasons except #8. It's done a great job of visualizing the powers of a modern day superman, i've enjoyed the update to things like heat vision or superhearing, and superspeed, particularly when they show it from clark perspective, ie he's moving at normal speed while the world around him slows down. And they've developed some good characters in lex and lionel. To bad they dropped the ball on so many lame storylines.

[cronosred]

I wouldn't mind a quick scene where young Clark either running to save someone or trying to catch up with Lana accidently runs into Chloe knocking her down, he makes a quick apology about not seeing her and she tells him that he should look into getting some glasses.

[Mikelus]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with changing aspects from the mythos, taking liberties and whatnot as long as they are good changes.


I can honestly say most of the liberties that SV has taken have been 'meh' or really bad.



:whatever:

If it is so "bad" and "terrible", who forced you to watch for so long? Don't have better things to do? I stop watching Heroes a long time ago, I don't bash it anymore, is a waste of my precious time.

Of course some things could've been better, I can say that about every single show, even the best ones. Geoff Johns seems to be satisfied with SV, and he's one of the industry's best, so it can't be that bad afterall.

[Gmanofsteel]

Given the immense popularity of the character, and DC's official stamp of approval (having bought the rights to the character, and through people like Geoff Johns), should Chloe be a part of the new movie-verse's canon?

This is not a "cast Allison Mack" thread, this is about the character, which would obviously be recast.

In terms of what the character brings to the canon, I think she's more important than Pete or Lana. Chloe is Clark's confidante, both when he is Clark Kent and when he is The Blur, and she recognises Clark's potential and assists where-ever possible. In the comics, Lois doesn't do this until after she learns of his secret identity, and so for many years Clark doesn't have a confidante, only Superman does.

And where-as Clark's parents help develop Clark's moral compass, Chloe goes one step further, and does the things she knows Clark shouldn't do. For example, killing Sebastian (Tess' noisy reporter) after he discovered Clark's secret, seducing Davis Bloom to prevent Doomsday, bringing Green Arrow back from the brink by hiring Roulette, or most recently, killing Tess in the alternative future.

Chloe is prepared to have blood on her hands, so that Superman doesn't. That undying devotion is why I think the character has a place in the canon - no other character can even compare in terms of usefulness, especially during Clark's Year One-era. Does anyone else agree?
I love Smallville, but Chloe is the most annoying and most pointless character ever, she's the one thing on the show I despise.

[Mr. Earle]

:whatever:

If it is so "bad" and "terrible", who forced you to watch for so long? Don't have better things to do? I stop watching Heroes a long time ago, I don't bash it anymore, is a waste of my precious time.

Of course some things could've been better, I can say that about every single show, even the best ones. Geoff Johns seems to be satisfied with SV, and he's one of the industry's best, so it can't be that bad afterall.I will admit that i used to watch it for Lana, and when she got ugly and irritating, Chloe started looking a lot better. And then BAM Lois came in!

Also, i had hope that it would get better and i watched all the episodes that i had heard were good, like Green Arrow's origin, the Legion one, the Zatanna one, etc

[Man of Tomorrow]

:whatever:

If it is so "bad" and "terrible", who forced you to watch for so long? Don't have better things to do? I stop watching Heroes a long time ago, I don't bash it anymore, is a waste of my precious time.

Of course some things could've been better, I can say that about every single show, even the best ones. Geoff Johns seems to be satisfied with SV, and he's one of the industry's best, so it can't be that bad afterall.


Who says I hate it? I'm just aware it's mainly crap and watch it in THAT context. At this point, I can't take it seriously but it's decent for what it is and the network that it's on.

I just don't want to see anything from it spill over into the Superman films; that was the whole point of this discussion.

Johns is being payed by the show and works for them, obviously he wouldn't badmouth it. He's pretty much using the show as a platform to show off his Legion and JSA stuff. Very rarely do you have writers from a show badmouthing their own series. Heck, Johns even said the cringeworthy Lana dialogue he wrote in Legion was great and that the Doomsday/Bloomesday arc that TPTB were working on would blow everyone away... :dry:

[Man of Tomorrow]

Also, i had hope that it would get better and i watched all the episodes that i had heard were good, like Green Arrow's origin


GA's origin? I wouldn't recommend "Toxic," it was laughably bad IMO.

[Mr. Earle]

Yeah it was pretty bad, but they told me it was GA's origin and that it was good so i watched it.

[Daybreak_st]

I wonder if all the people who constantly diss smallville realize how bad the reeve's superman movies really were. I just watched superman 3 last night and S:TM last week. Neither was as good as i remember, both had some seriously cheesy material.

A few things that were solid - dark superman, clark vs dark superman, also superman outthinking his oppenent (the computer), the clark subplot with lana wasn't bad but man has annette grown as an actor or what.

The original movie had plenty of camp though it was pretty fun. The ending resolution is still the dumbest thing ever, spinning the earth backwards to turn back time?! REALLY???! That's the best resolution they could come up witih. Then in Donner's cut of Superman 2 what does supes do...he spins the earh backward to turn back time AGAIN! Come on people! It was cheesy then, it's still cheesy now. For anyone complaining about the quality of smallville, i dare you to go back and watch all four films and compare the cheese factor.

[Daybreak_st]

don't get me wrong, smallville isn't great, my main problem has bad plot lines and character arcs. THis season is really fantastic though, a big departure from the last few years.

And also for the haters, putting on the costume wouldn't make the story any better, watch superman 4 and lois and clark if you don't understand this. Best part of L&C was the character interaction and storylines, that's what smallville has taken. They've combined that with making clark heroic ala the genesis of reeve's superman.

[storyteller]

The purpose of the Chloe Sullivan character was to be a replacement for who Clark would meet. She was originally a Lois Lane type character but once that character became apart of the universe, they needed to alter her. So they made her oracle. Superman doesn't need to go to her. He has Hamilton, Steel, Batman, other no name Scientists, Lois, Jimmy,Perry,.............. Someone said that her future was unsure. Well that's in the show, and only the show should handle it. She didn't make it into the comics because she wouldn't fit into Superman world with having access to beings far beyond some little hacker. Superboy and Supergirl simply do not work when they try to replicate Clarks world into theirs(because it's redundant).

[Mr. Earle]

If i were to place her into the comics canon, or the rebooted movieverse, i'd just make her one of Clark's high school best friends. She doesnt learn about his powers, she's no hacker, no watchtower, etc. She's just... there, part of Clark's gang. It'd be Clark, Lana, Pete and Chloe.

[Daybreak_st]

Since they have just started fleshing out supergirl having a secret identity, ie. Linda Lang. I think if they wanted they could integrate chloe into that world. But they shouldn't force it.

[Ultimate_Superman]

Since they have just started fleshing out supergirl having a secret identity, ie. Linda Lang. I think if they wanted they could integrate chloe into that world. But they shouldn't force it.Chloe was suppose to be apart of Conner's world as his Lois or Lana. Either way she was suppose to come between him and Wonder Girl. However when DC killed him off instead of Dick things changed.

[Webhead2006]

Well they could always bring the character in some time later.