OFFICIAL: Hugo Weaving is Red Skull

[The Overlord]

Who should play the Red Skull? Also should the Skull wear a mask or just be deformed?

[Aztec]

I think deformed is always better. The Nazis were trying to make a "superman" and instead they burned the skin off of his face. Works for me.

[marcvader]

Mads Mikkelson has been my choice since day 1. I prefer the face missing skin like in Hellraiser. German super soldier testing gone wrong anyone?

[DJ Kornphlake]

I've always liked this for live action:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/dj_kornphlake/Comic/Copy2ofredskulldrama3.jpg

[jab1118]

Viggo Mortenson is my number 1 choice great actor can definently do an accent just watch eastern promises. Also im for him being diformed it would look cooler and it saves any cheesy explanation for why he wears a mask. Plus looking at the way Viggo looks these days he wont need alot of make up and he can be ripped enough where he wont look silly going toe to toe with Cap

[captainrogers]

Maybe he could BOTH wear a mask AND be deformed. At some point in the movie he could take off the symbolic death's head mask (maybe something remeniscent of Crossbone's mask, just in red)and shock the good Captain with what the attempt at creating the perfect Aryan has done to THIS man (should they decide to go in the direction of the Red Skull being a product of an early or catastrophic Super Soldier Experiment.)

Using a mask like Crossbone's could potentially set up Brock Rumlow as a villain (at least in terms of identifiable imagery to the general public) for a sequel, should it be set in modern times.

Whatever they go with, I hope it looks good and menacing.

[Spider-ManHero12]

If you ask me, I think him being deformed could defenitely work. I mean (A) it would look VERY creepy and (B) it would be very effective. Don't get me wrong though, the Red Skull's mask kicks butt, but I'm not sure if people will take it too serious. Though, if done right, they could.

[WillardNation]

I'd definitely be down with Viggo for Red Skull.

[[A]]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/dj_kornphlake/Comic/Copy2ofredskulldrama3.jpgI like that. and whoever gets the part, don't even have to wear make up.. just paint some dots in his face :hehe:

[kedrell]

I agree with doing the Red Skull up Two Face style(CGI). But great things can be done with make-up as well. If they decided to go that way, I wouldn't complain.

[mrsparkle]

The ladies choice. :o

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i234/mrsparckle/comparisson.jpg

[kedrell]

That's just freaky! Yikes!

[Aztec]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it was originally a mask in the comics and now he's deformed?

Either way, I'd definitely prefer the nazi supersoldier experiment gone wrong scenario.

[GNR]

They should make the Red Skull along the same lines as a super soldier instead of a raving lunatic who always gets his ass kicked when coming within a foot of Cap.

[WillardNation]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it was originally a mask in the comics and now he's deformed?

Either way, I'd definitely prefer the nazi supersoldier experiment gone wrong scenario.

I don't know if it's been a mask the entire time but I know it started out as one and it is now because the Skull is just trapped inside another dude's body with him so whenever he needs to be the Red Skull instead of the other dude, he puts the mask on.

[LastSunrise1981]

They should make the Red Skull along the same lines as a super soldier instead of a raving lunatic who always gets his ass kicked when coming within a foot of Cap.

That I do agree with. He should be a combination of both though in all honesty. He should be a raving lunatic/genius Nazi who is also capable of standing toe to toe with Cap as well.

[Shockdingo]

I've always liked this for live action:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/dj_kornphlake/Comic/Copy2ofredskulldrama3.jpg

That looks fantastic, I quite like that look for the ol' despicable bastard.

I also like CaptainRogers' idea of having both.

[Reptile]

I actually liked his origin from the live action movie, than just the guy with a mask.
seemed more like the hero/villain thing, equal in power, but completely different personalities.

[The Question]

I'm actually for the mask, and against the idea of him being a super soldier. I think that the Red Skull should simply be a high empowered, highly skilled, and highly feared agent of the SS, who's duties usually revolve around intelligence gathering and assassinations. I think he should, in his killing of people, have a slight flair for theatrics, and thus wears a red skull wooden opera mask, because he wants to spread this image of himself so that people are afraid when the the threat of him being sent in is given. I don't want him to be a super soldier because I think that part of the rivalry between Cap and the Skull stems from the fact that the Red Skull prides himself on being the best, on being this powerful person in control of his life and being better than the poor thieving street trash he used to be, and hates Cap because Cap will always be just a little bit better, due to his being a super soldier.

[WillardNation]

^^^that sounds great to me

[Artistsean]

It seems like the Red Skull has been cut out of some stuff lately,
can't really think of them all, but off the top of my head he was cut from the Ultimates (right?)

[Chewy]

We definitely need deformed Red Skull.

[Eddie Dean]

Thomas Kretschmann for The Red Skull

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8672/042106bk8.jpg

[The Question]

We definitely need deformed Red Skull.

Why?

[Chewy]

Personal Preference

Perhaps I should have typed "I'd definitely prefer deformed Red Skull"?

[darthlaney]

What needs to be avoided is a mask that the actor constantly takes off to get his 'face time' - like Mcquire in Spider-man, whats the point of having an alter ego if you are never in the full suit.

[Rage]

I agree. Get a decent "character Actor" to play the skull and keep him in makeup. My suggestion for the skull is...Peter Greene from Pulp Fiction and The Black Donnellys

Here is his imdb page... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0338886/

[WeaponXProject]

I'm sticking with Viggo but besides him I am pretty clueless...

[The Question]

What needs to be avoided is a mask that the actor constantly takes off to get his 'face time' - like Mcquire in Spider-man, whats the point of having an alter ego if you are never in the full suit.

Why not just have him stay in the mask except when it's appropriate in the story for him not to wear one?

[WeaponXProject]

I would rather it be a scarred face than a mask as well.

[Shockdingo]

What needs to be avoided is a mask that the actor constantly takes off to get his 'face time' - like Mcquire in Spider-man, whats the point of having an alter ego if you are never in the full suit.

Quote for the win, that's a pet peeve of mine. I don't mind if we see the face of the hero/main character whatever, but if it becomes too frequent, people are going to wonder HOW a villain or person with a camera phone hasn't discovered their alternate identity.

[Rage]

Camera phones in WW2?? How big would those be?? ;)

[Weadazoid]

Do we manke him some 50 years older then Cap?? And technically if they go oldschool, well, WW2 was....how long ago.


Wolverine has a healing factor so I can belived he was in WW2 and still looks pretty much the same,


The Skull in the books always gets his but kicked now IMO because he is an oldman, still formidable to a human, but not formidale to a cryo-cap.


I say re-invent the Skully, keep him deformed but go a new route, don't give him origins in WW2

[The Question]

God no. Keep him WWII. Also, recall, he later decided to even the odds against Cap by getting a new body cloned from Cap himself.

[darthlaney]

Why not just have him stay in the mask except when it's appropriate in the story for him not to wear one?

My problem with a mask, rather than disfigurement is that it will keep getting taken off if its a big name actor. Just like in Spiderman, everytime Spidey stops, he wipes the mask off - when Peter is Spiderm-man I want to see Spider-man!

So when is it appropriate? Red Skull comes in from a big day at the genocide factory, just wants to put his feet up and have a cognac, slips on his smoking jacket and slippers, removes the mask and sits in his big arm chair in the den to relax.

When I see the Red Skull, I want to see the skull - if he is in the movie it is always appropriate to wear the mask.

[DJ Kornphlake]

Hugo Weaving wore a mask for the entire movie in V For Vendetta. He's not a big name actor, but he's a definitely recognizable one.

[K.B.]

I would love to see Gary Oldman as Red Skull. He hasent been a bad guy in some time.

[K.B.]

I forgot about my sig....


SAM JACKSON! LMAO

[irapogi]

I would love to see Gary Oldman as Red Skull. He hasent been a bad guy in some time.

that'd be plausible. i approve! great idea.

[Weadazoid]

God no. Keep him WWII. Also, recall, he later decided to even the odds against Cap by getting a new body cloned from Cap himself.


So from say 1940 to 2010 is um lets see 70 years, meaining, If Scull was say around 17 when he got the treatment.


yeah...97, how do you make that work, A clone is one thing, transfering concious... general audience is not going to buy it.


Script writers who try to make things...realistic are going to have issued with the age, trust me.


Not saying I like it Comic Book characters don't really age, but in a movie they kind of have to.

[Carlo Comicus]

Willem Dafoe?

[The Question]

So from say 1940 to 2010 is um lets see 70 years, meaining, If Scull was say around 17 when he got the treatment.


yeah...97, how do you make that work, A clone is one thing, transfering concious... general audience is not going to buy it.


Script writers who try to make things...realistic are going to have issued with the age, trust me.


Not saying I like it Comic Book characters don't really age, but in a movie they kind of have to.

Well, the first movie is going to be set entirely in World War Two anyway, so that part isn't an issue. As for any sequels set in the present, there are options:

1) He starts off as an old guy and then uses Cap's DNA to remake himself as a super soldier.

2) After Cap goes missing, his obsession with him causes him to search for him endlessly, not believing he's really dead, and when he can't find him, he has himself put in cryo to ensure that he'll be alive and well when Cap resurfaces.

3) Go with what was said in the original comics: Through sheer coincidence, he was also stuck in suspended animation through a craaaaazy accident.


The last one kind of sucks, but you get my point. There are options besides completely gutting the character.

[Negrotigre]

Thomas Kretschmann for The Red Skull

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8672/042106bk8.jpg


Perfect!

[Negrotigre]

Willem Dafoe?

He also crossed my mind as a good choice. They need someone who can do a good German accent. Valkyrie had some cringeworthy accents in it I hope are avoided this time.

[K.B.]

Well, the first movie is going to be set entirely in World War Two anyway, so that part isn't an issue. As for any sequels set in the present, there are options:

1) He starts off as an old guy and then uses Cap's DNA to remake himself as a super soldier.

2) After Cap goes missing, his obsession with him causes him to search for him endlessly, not believing he's really dead, and when he can't find him, he has himself put in cryo to ensure that he'll be alive and well when Cap resurfaces.

3) Go with what was said in the original comics: Through sheer coincidence, he was also stuck in suspended animation through a craaaaazy accident.


The last one kind of sucks, but you get my point. There are options besides completely gutting the character.

See this is why it's easier to go the German super soldier route with his origin. Not only it is easier to explain for when we get to the present but it's a good paralel to Cap himself. The opposite side of the coin if you will. Perhaps The reason the germans kill the good doctor is because they want the ONLY super soldier...

[The Question]

See this is why it's easier to go the German super soldier route with his origin. Not only it is easier to explain for when we get to the present but it's a good paralel to Cap himself. The opposite side of the coin if you will. Perhaps The reason the germans kill the good doctor is because they want the ONLY super soldier...

Personally, I feel that having him be a normal human works better for that. It explains why he would want to become a super soldier (and in turn regain his youth), because of his hatred of the one man who's better than him. Making him super right off the bat may be easier, but having him start out a normal is, I think, better for the character.

[Philly Phanboy]

Who should play the Red Skull?

Benno Fürmann (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0299811/) or Thomas Kretschmann would be good.


Also should the Skull wear a mask or just be deformed?

I say mask.

[captainrogers]

Well, the first movie is going to be set entirely in World War Two anyway, so that part isn't an issue. As for any sequels set in the present, there are options:

1) He starts off as an old guy and then uses Cap's DNA to remake himself as a super soldier.

2) After Cap goes missing, his obsession with him causes him to search for him endlessly, not believing he's really dead, and when he can't find him, he has himself put in cryo to ensure that he'll be alive and well when Cap resurfaces.

3) Go with what was said in the original comics: Through sheer coincidence, he was also stuck in suspended animation through a craaaaazy accident.


The last one kind of sucks, but you get my point. There are options besides completely gutting the character.


...or option 4) The Kirby Omniversal Quantum Matrix! (or the 'Cosmic Cube' as Fury dubs it.) Why not? It's a catch all for explaining the Schmidt using it's powers to make him young again.


Just my 2 cents.

[CaptainCanada]

What needs to be avoided is a mask that the actor constantly takes off to get his 'face time' - like Mcquire in Spider-man, whats the point of having an alter ego if you are never in the full suit.
With Spider-Man, they do that so that he can emote and the audience can identify with him during the big moments; there's no reason to do that with villains. Villains just have to be threatening (particularly the Skull, who hasn't got any redeeming features).

[Mad_Hatter]

As far as his face, I'd say it should definitely be scarring and not a mask. However that needs to come about (probably through a super-soldier experiment gone wrong or his own personal torture chemical thrown into his face or something like that), I really think it's the best way for him. Avoids the pesky mask-pulling-off that we got in Spider Man, and makes him just that much creepier. His intelligence should be played up as well...he may be physically weaker than Cap in the long-run, but he could probably out-think him. Mental enemies are the scariest, ya know.

Now, as to who should play him...my personal vote is for Ulrich Matthes.

http://www.a-e-m-gmbh.com/wessely/ulrich%20matthes%20imdb-com.jpg

50-year old German actor who can pull of a creepy air without much of a problem (he played Goebbels, after all). Here's his imdb profile: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0559890/

[The Major]

Ralph Fiennes. I'd like it if Red Skull began using a mask but at some stage during the film he loses his face with an accident with the Red Dust which turns his face into a deformed bleached red skull.

[Rich Santoro]

I like the idea of the mask for flair and image... Skull is a bit unhinged I would say. But for a tilt on the SS idea, I can see an angle where the formula without the vita-ray component causes the mutation (as we saw with Blonsky's spine in TIH... while he was looking in the mirror in the bathroom).

As for the issue of age... There are plenty of techy, serum, genetic therapy ways to address that... not to mention the idea of using the Cosmic Cube to revitalize himself.

[Rich Santoro]

For the actor... Viggo

[Shivsguy616]

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194/the_joker_13_photo/redskull31.jpg

Found this.

[Drakon]

I'd say deformed.

[The Overlord]

Also what should Red Skull wear? I never liked the green jumpsuit he wears sometimes, he should wear an SS uniform.

[Faded To Deaf]

Pretty much the Nazi Kroenen look from Hellboy.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6114/kroenen03.jpg

[Microchip]

Also what should Red Skull wear? I never liked the green jumpsuit he wears sometimes, he should wear an SS uniform.
Like that super-evil black uniform that has the skull and crossbones on it? Oh yes. And I like the idea of him being scarred to the point he has no hair, and his face is mostly red scar tissue but he also wears a mask.

[Duskbyday]

Like Baron Zemo's origin, have him wear a mask before his disfugerment and afterwards he loses the mask. ss all the way costume wise.

[Steve Holt]

Ralph Fiennes for Red Skull!





well him or Viggo.................

[Hypestyle]

... sucks that there have been no announcements on casting yet.. and with marvel's tactic of lowballing for cost, who knows who might accept..

i hope there is something "logical" done with the mask/face, and that it's not just ditched because "It's silly" or whatever rationale..

[Microchip]

Lowballing for cost? Iron Man 2 has RDJ, Sam Jackson, Mickey Rourke, Scarlett Johansson and Gwyneth Paltrow. Iron Man 1 cost 140m, TIH 137.5m. I wouldn't say that Marvel skimps AT ALL. Just because Terrance Howard is gone doesn't mean they cheap out or anything.

[laudanum09]

My dream pick would be Michael Ironside of Total Recall and Scanners fame. He's a great character actor, always plays an awesomely intense villain, and can no doubt, because of his theatre chops, pull of a German accent. He's insidious enough to be the Skull but also unknown enough to warrant keeping the Mask on. And yes, I prefer a Mask initially, especially one whose mouth doesn't move and like someone suggested on page 1, A wooden Opera death's head mask.

[Brian Braddock]

Viggo for me.

[shiveringmelody]

I'd much rather have a deformed Red Skull. Have no idea who to cast. I don't know what it is with casting, but with Green Lantern and Caps both finally get live action films its a dream come true....I just can't decide who I'd want to play them. Same goes for Red Skull and I grew up loving him as well.

[chamber-music]

Another name I would like to throw into the hat for Red Skull is German actor Til Schweiger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Til_Schweiger

[MikeSwanson]

..... since they are looking at a guy that needs to be a german bad guy i think they should get Alan Rickman. no one plays an awesome german bad guy like Alan Rickman. :rolleyes:

[jokerface89]

Rickman could make a good red skull.As for his facial apperance I think they should have the red skull be a deformed i seems like a better idea then just having him be a nazi villain that wears a mask.

[Canis Sapiens]

I'd much rather have a deformed Red Skull. Have no idea who to cast. I don't know what it is with casting, but with Green Lantern and Caps both finally get live action films its a dream come true....I just can't decide who I'd want to play them. Same goes for Red Skull and I grew up loving him as well.



:wow:YOU NAZI!:cmad:



:oldrazz::woot:

[Canis Sapiens]

..... since they are looking at a guy that needs to be a german bad guy i think they should get Alan Rickman. no one plays an awesome german bad guy like Alan Rickman. :rolleyes:

Rickman's a fantastic actor... his take on the Sheriff of Nottinghan is still the best, IMO. Nice choice.

That said, Viggo's my favorite choice.

[Jumpin' Jack]

Viggo maybe... or either Alan Rickman.
Love that last part of your signature Canis !( About a boy good film !).

[Canis Sapiens]

Thanks!
Love that film... and the book as well. :yay:

[dark_knight08]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/KERISMS/KER-cp-redskull.jpg

:unishr: I found this awesome picture of Red Skull.

[mrsparkle]

I don't remember the Red Skull being an amputee?

[MarvelFanClub]

i think skull should wear a masked or be deformed under the mask!

[Jumpin' Jack]

That drawing Is really good. Very cool costume.

[DJ Kornphlake]

I don't remember the Red Skull being an amputee?
His arm is behind his back. :dry:

[Astro13Zombie]

http://i42.tinypic.com/1z4lsll.jpg

[Astro13Zombie]

I've always liked this for live action:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/dj_kornphlake/Comic/Copy2ofredskulldrama3.jpg
I love this:wow:

[Rich Santoro]

I like the idea that when Erskine is killed, and a portion of the SSS is stolen... Skull is the initial test recipient in the Reich. But without the entire formula / process, he undergoes the same mutation process that Blonsky did in TIH (where his spine was protruding and he started looking gaunt). The idea is, that if Blonsky didn't take another treatment, and go full Abomination, he would have ended up with disfigurements looking like the Red Skull.

Additionally, this increases Skull's madness... and actually makes him super human rather than peak human (Blonsky seemed depicted beyond peak human). That makes him a tough heads-up challenge for Cap in a final fight scene, and could be the reason that he is still alive over 6 decades later.

[Dog Brother #1]

Mark Strong for Red Skull.

[Keyser Soze]

Mark Strong for Red Skull.

NICE casting choice! Though him being the villain in Kick-Ass might hurt his chances.

[Dog Brother #1]

I doubt it. Kinda how Mickey Roarke being in Sin City or Scarlet being in The Spirit didn't stop them from being in IM2. As long as the Chracters are different, I don't see a conflict of interest.

[Betty Ross]

I like the Mark Strong idea, but I think Rufus Sewell would be a good choice too:
http://anyeventuality.files.wordpress.com/2006/04/helenoftroy.jpg

He's a fantastic actor who plays villains a lot of the time (The Illusionist, A Knight's Tale), and is pretty underrated.

[Dog Brother #1]

Agreed. I also think Sewell would make an awesome Dr. Doom.

[Rich Santoro]

I called from Sewell as Doom in the past... but he would be very solid as Skull.

[sabetoonth]

Thomas Kretschmann for The Red Skull

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8672/042106bk8.jpg
yes! he is good in all the movies ive seen him in.

what if they include the fact that there were 3 red skulls, an american turned nazi, the classic johann scmidt and a communist(ironic as hitler's regime was staunchly anti-communist)

[That person]

An idea I had was that the DoD was originally intended to be a SSS, but wound up killing people. The Red Skull was given a highly diluted formula, which deformed him badly, but made him stronger and immune to it. I like the idea of Benno Furmann (sp?) and this sort of design:
http://z.about.com/d/comicbooks/1/0/F/n/redskullcap45.jpg

[protocida]

Rubber mask or deformed face, everyone?

[Webhead2006]

In the comics how has red skull usually be protrayed? mask or actual face?

[Rich Santoro]

I am leaning toward disfigured face, with the premise that he is the recipient of the incomplete SSS, and eventually mutates.

[protocida]

He starts with a mask and eventually gets disfigured.

[Brian Braddock]

How about rather than mutating like in the 1990 movie, the mask simply gets seared onto Skull's face somehow?

[Rich Santoro]

I just like the connection to Blonsky's mutation pre-abom. The way his spine protruded and he looked gaunt.

[Brian Braddock]

Actually, I never thought of that (I havent read all the thread). That's a nice bridge.

So effectively, are you proposing that the serum Blonsky took in TIH was the one (or one derived from the one) that Skull could have possibly took or do you propose that it's the same SSS as Cap's just without the vita-ray stablisation (which could possibly explain the mutation)?

[Rich Santoro]

^ Somewhere in there... The idea is that Skull got the incomplete formula (no vita-ray treatment). Blonsky got some off-shoot, derivative, re-formulated, or just similarly incomplete treatment as Skull did (TIH wasn't clear what the serum Ross pulled was... what it the same old one, or something based on the original???).

Either way, the effect would be a related one, and we would see them exhibit similar side-effects... Which would included super-human capacity rather than peak human (since Blonsky looked a bit above the curve in TIH), making a Skull cap show down pretty intense... also there is the skeletal mutation, and of course... madness.

Overall, the SSS is a great device for the development of heros and villains in the Marvel-Movie-verse. There can be bastardized formulas made by the Leader, by AIM, by the U.S. Military... that empowers any number of characters (Luke Cage, the U-Foes, Hammerhead, Wonder Man, Tombstone, The Rhino, etc...).

[Brian Braddock]

Agree completely there Rich.

I haveta say though, when I first saw TIH, I interpreted the serum given to Blonsky as Cap's SS serum simply because it was blue.

:o :hehe:

How lame is that for reasoning based of a visually superficial observation?

As you say though, I guess it's open to interpretation as it was [probably]deliberately very vague as to the exact origin of that particular serum.

[protocida]

Both used the incomplete version of the formula, without the Vita-Ray treatment. Blonsky would get as disfigured as Red Skull if he didn't mixed the formula with Bruce Banner's blood, ressulting a mutation that transformed him in Abomination! :woot:

[Brian Braddock]

Yeah, that's probably as simple as it gets - which is the best way to go for the GA to follow. Keep it all the one formula, but emphasize just how important the Vita-rays are to the whole process.

SSS + Vita Rays = Super Soldier (no defects)
SSS - Vita Rays = Super Soldier (insanity and probable skeletal mutation)
SSS - Vita Rays + unknown element = (oh S***)

[Brian Braddock]

Thinking on though, the serum was injected straight into Blonksy's bones (which obviously contributed to the skeletal mutation). I thought this puzzling at the time - I mean, why did they do that?

Is it medical procedure to administer serums and anti-toxins into the bones of a person for better gains? What happened to the old-fashioned needle in the shoulder?

Furthermore, does that mean that Cap would most likely be administered with the SSS in the same way? Or did the guys giving Blonsky the serum somehow reallly drop the ball by doing it wrong?

Question, questions, questions.................:D

[Rich Santoro]

Question, questions, questions.................:D

This is kind of why, I thought that the serum given to Blonsky was the product of addtional R&D that went on after WWII. The vita-ray information was lost, and the formula did not work as expected (there could be a dark past of cold-war era experiments gone wrong... again giving us a host of other characters, and plot lines), so the military kept working on it... Then as of TIH, they had to a particular formulation that called for the twin injections, including into the bone.

Who knows... maybe they will depict Cap as having gotten that kind of treatment as well (two injections, with a bone injection), and that is just how it is done (plus the vita-ray component, of course).

Again, I like the idea of Skull being mutated in response... linking to the Blonksy mutation. Even if the formulas used on Blonsky and Skull turn out to be slightly different, it can be that their mutations are slightly different, but similar (still a skeletal disfigurement, to some degree)... maybe Skull got a tweaked version after it was stolen, and it was injected into the base of his skull, causing the RED SKULL mutation... Lots of ways to tie this out.

But essentially, I agree with this as the basic theme:

SSS + Vita Rays = Super Soldier (no defects)
SSS - Vita Rays = Super Soldier (insanity and probable skeletal mutation)
SSS - Vita Rays + unknown element = (oh S***)

[Drakon]

Yeah, that's probably as simple as it gets - which is the best way to go for the GA to follow. Keep it all the one formula, but emphasize just how important the Vita-rays are to the whole process.

SSS + Vita Rays = Super Soldier (no defects)
SSS - Vita Rays = Super Soldier (insanity and probable skeletal mutation)
SSS - Vita Rays + unknown element = (oh S***)

Well, something else, too. Instead of using the Serum as the control, what about using the Vita Rays? Such as, to match your list above:

Vita Rays + True SSS = Cap
Vita Rays + False SSS = X
Vita Rays + NO SSS = Y

[protocida]

In The Incredible Hulk's novelization, it is stated that the USA government made unsucessful experiments with the Supersoldier Serum during Cold War, and the sample used in Blonsky was stolen by Gen. Ross years prior.

[Webhead2006]

This is kind of why, I thought that the serum given to Blonsky was the product of addtional R&D that went on after WWII. The vita-ray information was lost, and the formula did not work as expected (there could be a dark past of cold-war era experiments gone wrong... again giving us a host of other characters, and plot lines), so the military kept working on it... Then as of TIH, they had to a particular formulation that called for the twin injections, including into the bone.

Who knows... maybe they will depict Cap as having gotten that kind of treatment as well (two injections, with a bone injection), and that is just how it is done (plus the vita-ray component, of course).

Again, I like the idea of Skull being mutated in response... linking to the Blonksy mutation. Even if the formulas used on Blonsky and Skull turn out to be slightly different, it can be that their mutations are slightly different, but similar (still a skeletal disfigurement, to some degree)... maybe Skull got a tweaked version after it was stolen, and it was injected into the base of his skull, causing the RED SKULL mutation... Lots of ways to tie this out.

But essentially, I agree with this as the basic theme:

SSS + Vita Rays = Super Soldier (no defects)
SSS - Vita Rays = Super Soldier (insanity and probable skeletal mutation)
SSS - Vita Rays + unknown element = (oh S***)
That would be a good way to go about it.

[sabetoonth]

Thinking on though, the serum was injected straight into Blonksy's bones (which obviously contributed to the skeletal mutation). I thought this puzzling at the time - I mean, why did they do that?

Is it medical procedure to administer serums and anti-toxins into the bones of a person for better gains? What happened to the old-fashioned needle in the shoulder?

Furthermore, does that mean that Cap would most likely be administered with the SSS in the same way? Or did the guys giving Blonsky the serum somehow reallly drop the ball by doing it wrong?

Question, questions, questions.................:D
i beleive injecting into the bone deep enough injects it into the marrow and therefore into either the blood produced from the marrow or the white bloodcells

[Obi-Ron]

The Skull should be in possession of some sort of variant of the cosmic cube.

[Rich Santoro]

Well, something else, too. Instead of using the Serum as the control, what about using the Vita Rays? Such as, to match your list above:

Vita Rays + True SSS = Cap
Vita Rays + False SSS = X
Vita Rays + NO SSS = Y

It could very well be depicted that way... The only thing is, I believe it was the vita-ray process that became lost (in the book cannon anyway).

[Rich Santoro]

In The Incredible Hulk's novelization, it is stated that the USA government made unsucessful experiments with the Supersoldier Serum during Cold War, and the sample used in Blonsky was stolen by Gen. Ross years prior.

Sweet... Thanks for the info. This just makes sense that there were ongoing efforts, and the program was eventually terminated. The idea that Ross stole a derivative / spin-off at some point and was operating on the down-low / illegally, is an interesting angle.

[Rich Santoro]

The Skull should be in possession of some sort of variant of the cosmic cube.

That most certainly would be the global threat that no single superhero can defeat. I wouldn't mind if it was watered down for the film... just a bit (no reality changing powers... just massive strength, speed, energy blasts, some mind powers, Dragonball'esqe power-up and unleash type of stuff... not the movie Dragonball... but the animated Dragonball Z type of presentation).

Then the coupe de gras scene that I have been longing for could be done... (this is fanboy nonsense, but join me if you will):

The team is strewn about as the Skull is starting to come out on top. Cap ralleys the team amid the mayhem, strategizes on the fly, has Hulk move in for a distraction so that Wasp can get close... Hulk gets thrown as Cap runs in from behind him... just then, Wasp swoops in for the old blast-in-the-eyes trick, and wham... Caps catches Skull with a shield swipe, then as he backhands with the shield for a one-two combo, Skull quickly recovers from a moment of disorientation (eye blast and vibranium shield to the jaw) and grabs hold of the shield asnd hurls Cap aside... but in that split second, Cap drops Antman onto Skull's person (Cap was holding Pym hidden in his shield hand). Skull looms over Cap as the rest of the team is trying to pick themselves up... Skull clenches his fist and and we see an energy sphere forming... then BOOM, he lurches backward and we see Antman and the Cube go tumbling to the ground. Skull gets back up and lunges for the Cube. Cap sees Mjolnir lying nearby (Thor was knocked for a loop a bit earlier). Cap grabs the hammer and heaves it up... Thor looks over and is in shock and awe, IM also notices (as does the audience) because it would have been established earlier that only Thor and those of noble heart can wield the hammer. Cap then slams in down on the Cube just as Skull dives in and KAPLOOEY!!! The Cube goes up in a mushroom cloud.

Wasp grabs Antman, who is out of it from his handling of the Cube, and flies off toward IM... She calls to Tony, "Heads up"... he catched the two of them and craddles them as he hits the afterburners to get some distance. Thor, Cap, Skull and Hulk are caught in the blast. Skull is incinerated... Hulk is charred and burnt in a heap... but heals rapidly. He gets up, as seared hide falls off and he slowly transforms to Banner (some distance from the rest of the team, due to the blast). He skulks away for his own sequel. Cap picks himself up, and looks around trying to figure out how he survived... Thor walks up (smoking and sizzling, with his Asgardian armor tattered) and says that Mjolnir protected him. He goes on about how the cosmos has revealed to him where he belongs and by whose side he should serve, IM realizes that Cap smashed the Cube not knowing that he would live, meaning that he essentiall sacrificed himself without a thought... and knows who the leader of the team should be (finalizing the Avengers team-up, as there could have been tension throughout the film). Bring it on boys...

[sabetoonth]

add to that scene maybe an "Avengers assemble!" and it would make millions geekgasm

[bossman550]

me 2

[Keyser Soze]

The Skull should be in possession of some sort of variant of the cosmic cube.

Maybe Loki can give it to him. ;)

[Rich Santoro]

Maybe Loki can give it to him. ;)

It could be presented as some kind of merger of technology and magic. Great way to hang all the themes of the Marvel-movie-verse together (Mandarin, Asgard, Thor with IM, the known universe, and mortals).

[sabetoonth]

Maybe Loki can give it to him. ;)
maybe as a part of some kind of master plan that could conclude in a avengers 2 or 3 instead of 6 like in star wars.

[That-Guy]

Just saw Valkyrie last night. Gotta say, Thomas Kretschmann is perfect for the Red Skull. He played a perfect Nazi in that movie, and he played a really vicious SOB in Transsiberian. Hell, he was even good in Wanted and I hated that movie. I can't think of a better choice.

[Dog Brother #1]

While I do like Kretschman as an actor, I don't think he's right for the Skull. Red Skull needs someone who can project a more overt evil, rather than Kretschman's more subtle sinister portrayals. I think ofter people fall into the trap of suggesting him because he's German. But that being said, if he does end up being cast, there are worse things I can think of. He's just not my first choice.

[That-Guy]

Fair enough... I guess I tend to prefer subtlety in villains though because you have to have someone PERFECT to play a loony, maniacal villain in a superhero movie for it to work. Otherwise, you end up with Treat Williams in The Phantom (cringe).

[MilkmanDan]

Hey! I thought Treat Williams was brilliant and hilarious in Phantom. He played that villain like it was Hank Scorpio from Simpsons. A really likable guy and a good boss, who also happens to be an evil murderous mastermind. In a less campy movie it wouldn't have worked, but in this case it didn't feel out-of-place and made his character probably the most entertaining thing in that movie.

[sabetoonth]

the skull needs to be evil yet not so much that he couldnt get by in normal life

[Rich Santoro]

the skull needs to be evil yet not so much that he couldnt get by in normal life

I have a different perception of him. He is a megalomaniac on the order (or beyond) Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc... Absolute power and dominance is his goal. There is no place for this man in society. When he is not actively engaging in destruction, he is plotting and building a destructive machine (be it an actual machine, a man-powered machine... ie private army / operation, or a process of building power... ie the manufacturing of a cosmic cube).

I see Zemo as more aligned with your description...

[Brian Braddock]

Totally, Rich. Totally.

It'd be nice to see the Skull portrayed the way you describe. To be honest, it'll be a refreshing change from Hollywood trying to give us the now-standard sympathetic bad guy.

Red Skulls a evil ****. Simple as that.

[sabetoonth]

yes i see the guy as being evil as **** but still being at least able to tone it down enough that he coud just dissapear for a while while he plots, like witness protection but hes just acting like hes not so evil. i guess thats what i was trying to say

[Dog Brother #1]

Red Skull make up test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=204Pud9ZeXQ

Anyone see this yet? It's a little old,and most likely not authentic, but cool looking none the less.

[Webhead2006]

thats cool though probably not real since i dont think they are even that far along in pre production now let alone then.

[tamron]

The mask in the video is a "Yorick the Skull" silicone mask from Composite Effects. As seen here (http://www.compositeeffects.com/sm_yorick.htm) for $544.95.

It is a pretty nice looking mask though.

[Rich Santoro]

yes i see the guy as being evil as **** but still being at least able to tone it down enough that he coud just dissapear for a while while he plots, like witness protection but hes just acting like hes not so evil. i guess thats what i was trying to say

For the sake of disappearing... I am thinking that he would be more suited to a comparison from the movie "Hannibal". The Red Skull would be like Mason Verger (the old disfigured man in the bed), rather than to behavior ala Lecter himself.

Verger was a recluse, hidden away in his estate, unknown to the world... plotting his revenge (his particular story, and the fact that he was severely disabled is not in scope of my comparison). Whereas Lecter could walk out in the open, sit and have coffee, talk to people... With this, I see a Lecter-type of analogy as more suited for Zemo... and the maniacal madman, locked away, seeking the kill and maim, as more where Skull lies...

He could even be a decrepid old man (in his 90s) at the outset of the modern era segement of the Cap movie, or perhaps in the Avengers ... Then he becomes revitalized (by some AIM tech, a new age version of the SSS, or by finally developing the cosmic cube).

[Rich Santoro]

dp...

[Gamma Goliath]

For the sake of disappearing... I am thinking that he would be more suited to a comparison from the movie "Hannibal". The Red Skull would be like Mason Verger (the old disfigured man in the bed), rather than to behavior ala Lecter himself.

Verger was a recluse, hidden away in his estate, unknown to the world... plotting his revenge (his particular story, and the fact that he was severely disabled is not in scope of my comparison). Whereas Lecter could walk out in the open, sit and have coffee, talk to people... With this, I see a Lecter-type of analogy as more suited for Zemo... and the maniacal madman, locked away, seeking the kill and maim, as more where Skull lies...

He could even be a decrepid old man (in his 90s) at the outset of the modern era segement of the Cap movie, or perhaps in the Avengers ... Then he becomes revitalized (by some AIM tech, a new age version of the SSS, or by finally developing the cosmic cube).

Dude those are some awsome suggestions.

[Rich Santoro]

Dude those are some awsome suggestions.

Cool, thanks bro...

[sabetoonth]

they are pretty good. he should have a castle or something in the mountainss as to hide away from the world, but when he arrives here in the modern realm of man, he sees he has to change to reap benefit, than becoming a rutthless businss man shaming away from nazism as some people dont want anything to do with him for that alone, people he needs to use. this cold be a way of showing his change out of nazism

[CHEZ]

Wow, whoever said Viggo for the Red Skull nailed it. He would be perfect.
Great call. I cannot see a better pick than that.

[Judson Caspian]

I think the only way to make Red Skull look believable is to remove all skin from his head. Like Frank in Hellraiser.

http://i44.tinypic.com/e8rbiv.jpg

[CHEZ]

I've always liked this for live action:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/dj_kornphlake/Comic/Copy2ofredskulldrama3.jpg



This is very cool. What is this pic from?

[Rich Santoro]

I would like to see Skull as hiding out in S. America, where a lot of Nazi war criminals went to hide after the war. There he built a secret army / mercenary operation where he has been supplying man-power, and firepower to fuel the ongoing civil unrest, coupes, drug wars, guerilla wars, etc. going on across Latin America.

He is getting filthy rich off the carnage, and is working on his ultimate plot with AIM to build the Cosmic Generator (cosmic cube baby)... Or he is working on a plot to bring his mercenary army to the U.S. and take advantage of the recent military contracting that has been going on (ala Blackwater). Crossbones is posing as a lobbyist / front man for Skulls forces, and smooth talks some congressmen and the Defense Department. It is a ruse to get authority for bringing his operation onto U.S. soil and set up a base, where he can invade DC... or both.

There can be some tie outs with some global terrorist operations (HYDRA or the Ten Rings).

[CHEZ]

I would like to see Skull as hiding out in S. America, where a lot of Nazi war criminals went to hide after the war. There he built a secret army / mercenary operation where he has been supplying man-power, and firepower to fuel the ongoing civil unrest, coupes, drug wars, guerilla wars, etc. going on across Latin America.

He is getting filthy rich off the carnage, and is working on his ultimate plot with AIM to build the Cosmic Generator (cosmic cube baby)... Or he is working on a plot to bring his mercenary army to the U.S. and take advantage of the recent military contracting that has been going on (ala Blackwater). Crossbones is posing as a lobbyist / front man for Skulls forces, and smooth talks some congressmen and the Defense Department. It is a ruse to get authority for bringing his operation onto U.S. soil and set up a base, where he can invade DC... or both.

There can be some tie outs with some global terrorist operations (HYDRA or the Ten Rings).

Are you suggesting this idea take place in the present day?
Or directly after the war while Steve Rogers is still frozen in the Arctic?

[sabetoonth]

I would like to see Skull as hiding out in S. America, where a lot of Nazi war criminals went to hide after the war. There he built a secret army / mercenary operation where he has been supplying man-power, and firepower to fuel the ongoing civil unrest, coupes, drug wars, guerilla wars, etc. going on across Latin America.

He is getting filthy rich off the carnage, and is working on his ultimate plot with AIM to build the Cosmic Generator (cosmic cube baby)... Or he is working on a plot to bring his mercenary army to the U.S. and take advantage of the recent military contracting that has been going on (ala Blackwater). Crossbones is posing as a lobbyist / front man for Skulls forces, and smooth talks some congressmen and the Defense Department. It is a ruse to get authority for bringing his operation onto U.S. soil and set up a base, where he can invade DC... or both.

There can be some tie outs with some global terrorist operations (HYDRA or the Ten Rings).
i thinkk this would take yers and cap would b infroze to stop the unbolded part

[protocida]

I'd have Red Skull be accidently frozen after his fight with Captain America, where the hero stops the missile. He's awaken before Cap and creates an new criminal operation with AIM.

[sabetoonth]

or founds aim during the war and they find and unfreeze him, or freeze and unfreeze him

[CHEZ]

I like that idea of Red Skull being frozen with Cap.

Like, what could be cool and work, is if when Cap is captured and tied to the missile he somehow were to grab hold of the Red Skull just seconds before launch, and then while rocketing through the sky the rocket were to malfunction and they both crashed into the Arctic only to be frozen through time.

[Brian Braddock]

It's certainly more plausible than RS being accidentally caught in suspended animation due to a leak of experimental nerve gas let loose by an explosion; just happening to conveniently coincide with Cap accidently getting caught in suspended animation by arctic ice.

Handy that one, wasnt it.

;)

[sabetoonth]

yes my american brother

[Rich Santoro]

Are you suggesting this idea take place in the present day?
Or directly after the war while Steve Rogers is still frozen in the Arctic?

I guess I am getting ahead of myself... What I have been talking about is for the Avengers, with The Red Skull as a returning villain. So all that talk about hiding out in S. America, and the mercenary army, is in the context of the modern day.

This includes a post that I made earlier, about Skull being a reclusive shut-in, plotting domination.

i thinkk this would take yers and cap would b infroze to stop the unbolded part

I wanted to clarify... again, I was talking about events in the Avengers film. Sorry for the confusion.

[Rich Santoro]

I would prefer Skull not be frozen or suspended (too much coincidence)... I would like to see him aged into his 90s by the time Cap is thawed out (this would be for the Avengers).

Now...going back to the Cap movie... have Skull be the recipient of the SSS that was stolen from Erskine's lab. He has the skeletal mutation and becomes utterly insane.

He is leading a terrorist group, terrorizing the French country-side. Cap is deployed to intercept Skull's operation and take them out. The American'ized symbolism in his uniform is designed to inspire and counter the fear that Skull has instilled with his operation.

After defeating Skull on the battle field (Skull seemingly disappears), Cap discovers plans to build an army of Nazi super soldiers in a secret facility in the arctic (far North Scandanavia). Cap goes to take the facility out. Once he infiltrates, he sees that the place is the stuff of nightmares. Human experiments, SSS tests gone wrong, mutated and broken test subjects... utterly inhuman and repulsive.

The mad scientist behind it all is Baron Zemo. Skull has escaped from the battle-field and is there to drive Zemo for completion of his experiments and build the Super Army once and for all. Cap sees the horrors of the place, and that Zemo / Skull are close to success (albeit a monsterous success - which would make an army of monstrosities). He knows that he must stop this program and destroy the facility.

He finds the reactor core, or some other thing of that nature... he is then discovered... the heat is on... plenty of action ensues... he destroyes some control panel with a well-aimed shield throw... and a chain reaction causes the place to go up like the 4th of July. He escapes and is hurled by the blast off into the icy cold. Skull and Zemo are seemingly destroyed. Cap trudges on in the artic night, and finally succumbs... falling into a ice crevasse, sliding down into the darkness... being covered over by blowing snow and ice (I hate the idea of riding a missle... and falling into the water, to become frozen). Alternatively, the facility could be a cosmic generator, as a prelude to a later film (Avengers) where the Cosmic Cube is finally manufactured.

Skull actually escaped the facility destruction, and made his way to S. America after the Allies won WWII. There, he goes into hiding, and builds the merc operation that I posted about earlier. He could age slowly due to the super soldier formula that he took, or has underwent additional experiments over the decades... giving him longevity... or he, at long last, manufactures the Cosmic Cube and uses the power to revitalize himself. But all of this is reserved for the Avengers.

[Rich Santoro]

Dp...

[Webhead2006]

that sounds like a nice way to go.

[sabetoonth]

if there were plans to use zemo 1 tht explosion could have welded the mask to his face

[Gamma Goliath]

As far as red skull being frozen, I could see red skull being seriously injured by cap in a scuffle. So after cap is gone, his men take him and repair his body as much as possible, but he is still in a seriously critical condition. So they inject him with a type of s.s.s. that would heal his body slowly but surly into perfection, and they cryogenectally freeze him to allow his body to fully heal and keep him from dying from the injuries and from natural causes.
So when he is awakened after news of captain americas return, the serum he was injected with would take full effect and the red skull would live again, but he would he would 100% and more.

[Rich Santoro]

if there were plans to use zemo 1 tht explosion could have welded the mask to his face

That would be a good hook for the premise that the mask is stuck.

[Webhead2006]

has their been any word if that zemo character is due to show up in the film?

[Rich Santoro]

^ Not that I know of... just waxing fanboy.

[Drakon]

If Red Skull was frozen, wouldn't that be a mid-life cryostasis?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/Drakon/Smileys/emot-downsrim.gif

[Drakon]

If Red Skull was frozen, wouldn't that be a mid-life cryostasis?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/Drakon/Smileys/emot-downsrim.gif

[Rich Santoro]

< rim-shot > Nice one... :yay:

[sabetoonth]

i think zemo if they use both, have 1st be in ww2 working with skull. then his son puts together the masters of evil in the avengers

[Rich Santoro]

http://mos.totalfilm.com/images/j/john-stevenson-will-direct-masters-of-the-universe-00-400-75.jpg

Here's a good look for skull... but perhaps the lips should be peeled back, ala Karl Kroenen in Hellboy.

[sabetoonth]

i dont get that make up, he has the tteeth on his lips and then teeth under the lips? but that is the direction to go, maybe someone could manip it inot red skull

[antmanx68]

I think Red Skull looked pretty cool in the old cap movie, I'd say do that with a little hint of Skeletor and you're good to go.

[Chris B]

What if they did something where after Cap defeats the Skull at the end of his fillm, he's left with injuries that were unable to be treated during in the 1940's and goes into suspended animation until the present day where medical knowledge has advanced to the point where said injuries can be treated. They could even tie it into SHIELD deciding to form the Avengers and escalating the search for Captain America upon learning of the Red Skull's revival.

[protocida]

He could be placed in an advanced life support device developed by the Nazis.

[Rich Santoro]

He could have longevity provided by a modified / incomplete SSS that induced madness.

He could become a decrepid nonagenerian that is revitalizewd by the cosmic cube... or a new dose of a newly formulated SSS by bad guys.

He could steel Dr. Dooms time machine and leap forward to fight Cap once again on the future.

He could play freeze tag, and Cap leaves him there for 65 years before he unfreezes him.

He could take a gig acting as a hotel caretaker in the off-season, and become frozen in a hedge-row maze.

[sabetoonth]

what if he gets canelled and the studio execs restart him in the 21st century?

[Triad]

He could play freeze tag, and Cap leaves him there for 65 years before he unfreezes him.

This made me laugh out loud!
Thanks Rich!

[sabetoonth]

we need mre laughs nowa days

[Rich Santoro]

This made me laugh out loud!
Thanks Rich!

Glad I can lighten the mood a bit... We all get so intense about these movie ideas. It is exciting and fun, but sometimes somewhat overzealous...

[catintheengine]

Personally I think Red Skull should start off the movie not being deformed and then at some point during the movie gains some sort of scarring on his face.

And as far as casting goes:

Peter Stormare for Red Skull, and Malcolm McDowell for Baron Zemo.


And in my opinion, I think the most effective way to have RS and Zemo in the movie would to have Red Skull lead Hitler's secret occult group (or something along those lines). Heck, if you wanted to tie it in to the other movies, maybe have it that they're searching for a way to 'summon' Thor/Loki/Odin/some Asgardian and that would place them up in Scandinavia which could end with Cap getting frozen at the end of the film. Just an idea.

[Webhead2006]

that could work out well.

[Rich Santoro]

Personally I think Red Skull should start off the movie not being deformed and then at some point during the movie gains some sort of scarring on his face.

I have been getting behind the idea that Skull takes a bastardized version of the SSS, which causes the skeletal mutation (ala Blonsky in TIH... as seen with his protruding spine in the bathroom scene). So he starts out normal... then takes the formula stolen when Erskine is murdered... and he becomes the Red Skull.

And as far as casting goes:

Peter Stormare for Red Skull, and Malcolm McDowell for Baron Zemo.

Those are good... especially McDowell. But I could see Stomare doing either...

And in my opinion, I think the most effective way to have RS and Zemo in the movie would to have Red Skull lead Hitler's secret occult group (or something along those lines). Heck, if you wanted to tie it in to the other movies, maybe have it that they're searching for a way to 'summon' Thor/Loki/Odin/some Asgardian and that would place them up in Scandinavia which could end with Cap getting frozen at the end of the film. Just an idea.

I like the idea of a secret occult operation. Researching mystical powers, rituals, channeling, etc... including the use of terrorism principles to try and defeat the enemies soul. Zemo can be a genetic scientist and clinical psycologist, trying to alter the bodies and minds of test subjects to create a Doctor Moreau type of altered / enhanced being (not animal hybrid though... just ghoulish, blank stared, killing machines).

Red Skull would be overseeing all of these "weapons" and tactical programs. I don't want to try and knock off the openning Hell-boy too much here, but that kind of tone is the way to go.

[protocida]

Red Skull is the leader of Hydra, a black ops team under Hitler's service. His second man is interrogator/torturer Dr. Faustus.

[catintheengine]

Rich, I thought the same thing. Stormare could do either and (really) so could McDowell. However, when I really gave it some thought I think that McDowell could pull off more of a sophisticated, cerebral, academically-minded Zemo and that Stormare would play a more frightening RS.

I really like your idea about a botched SSS messing with RS, though I'd fear it would almost be too close to what happened in TIH, but it does work as an excellent explanation for Skull's facial scars.

The way I imagine it is that RS becomes obsessed with killing Cap (especially after his scaring, for which he blames Cap) and Zemo is more interested in studying Captain.

[sabetoonth]

and in an attempt to capture cap and study him under a microscope, an accident welds the mask to his face

[Dog Brother #1]

I want to see the death dust. Make it a bio-chem weapon, like mustard gas or zyclon gas.

[BT18]

I haven't read through this whole thread but has it been brought up that there were both a main Red Skull and a decoy Red Skull in Caps World War II days? The real one was Johann Schmidt but I think the double George John Maxon (an American businessman and spy who was working for the Nazis) would be a really cool character to include as well. It would also appeal to an international audience to acknowledge a bit of the Nazi business ties to some individuals in the far right wing of the American ruling class (IE Prescott Bush, The Harrimans, the guys who planned a coup against FDR etc).
Maxon could represent that and it would obviously be much more advantageous for franchise purposes to kill him off and not Schmidt.

BTW look at this article, I think they could draw alot of material from some of these guys for different characters of questionable morals, particularly DuPont http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1999/10/17/1999-10-17_conspiracy_theory_gerald_mac.html

[Dog Brother #1]

Judging by Marvel Studios history, the villain will be an actor that was a leading man in the 80's. So I'm gonna go ahead and call it now: Steve Guttenberg as Red Skull. Ha!

[[A]]

Does anyone like the look of feral ghouls (from Fallout 3) for Red Skull..? No..? Ok. *leaves*

[sabetoonth]

I haven't read through this whole thread but has it been brought up that there were both a main Red Skull and a decoy Red Skull in Caps World War II days? The real one was Johann Schmidt but I think the double George John Maxon (an American businessman and spy who was working for the Nazis) would be a really cool character to include as well. It would also appeal to an international audience to acknowledge a bit of the Nazi business ties to some individuals in the far right wing of the American ruling class (IE Prescott Bush, The Harrimans, the guys who planned a coup against FDR etc).
Maxon could represent that and it would obviously be much more advantageous for franchise purposes to kill him off and not Schmidt.

BTW look at this article, I think they could draw alot of material from some of these guys for different characters of questionable morals, particularly DuPont http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1999/10/17/1999-10-17_conspiracy_theory_gerald_mac.html
maxon was the vdry first red skull he was an american nazi and wore a mask, he had nothing to do with the schmidt skull other than being a nazi, there was yet another one as there was a fifties cap while rogers was frozen

[Rich Santoro]

Rich, I thought the same thing. Stormare could do either and (really) so could McDowell. However, when I really gave it some thought I think that McDowell could pull off more of a sophisticated, cerebral, academically-minded Zemo and that Stormare would play a more frightening RS.

You have convinced my on McDowell for Zemo. It is a very good fit.

[BT18]

maxon was the vdry first red skull he was an american nazi and wore a mask, he had nothing to do with the schmidt skull other than being a nazi, there was yet another one as there was a fifties cap while rogers was frozen

other than being a nazi and them both having the same persona of "the Red Skull". Maybe he wasn't a decoy per se (I didn't read the comics this was covered in, just read summarizations online) but I think he's an example of an obscure character that could work very well in the movies. Especially since Red Skull is so much more dominant than any character in Cap's rogues gallery, having sort of a decoy or double of him wouldn't be redundant or take the place of some popular character the public wants to see. I think a big theme of the movie should be the awe of and propaganda about these figures on both sides (Cap for the Allies and Red Skull for the Axis) and having the Red Skull seem to have the ability to be in more than one place at one time would add to his enigmatic quality.

[sabetoonth]

thats a good idea

[catintheengine]

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with my choices:


http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6131/malcolmmcdowellcannes46.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=malcolmmcdowellcannes46.jpg)
Malcolm McDowell as Dr. Heinrich Zemo, 12 Baron Zemo

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3992/prisonbreakpeterstormar.th.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prisonbreakpeterstormar.jpg)
Peter Stormare as Johann Schmidt a.k.a Red Skull

[Webhead2006]

i could see them, i dont know peter stormare work but i do like mcdowell's stuff.

[Triad]

Don't you remember him as the killer in Fargo? "I likes the pancakes."
He's been in a million other flicks, that's just the one that sticks out for me.

[sabetoonth]

storeman loks familiar i just cant place him, hw big is he?

[Webhead2006]

So i was just wondering has any one seen what they are doing with red skull in the new ultimate avengers comic line. I was like WTF!!!!

[sabetoonth]

no could you post a pic?

[Webhead2006]

No i meant character wise what they are doing with him now in the new ultimate avengers title.

[Webhead2006]

No i meant character wise what they are doing with him now in the new ultimate avengers title. But here is what he does look like:
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9449/eorydl6d8qjphg73ib3lalt.jpg

[sabetoonth]

holy **** nazi

is his skn peeled away frm his face?

[Webhead2006]

i have no clue, but do u know the most shocking element about this ultimate red skull is.......

[sabetoonth]

he is the illegitimate son of cap? ive got wikipedia up now, they will also bring in ultimate ghost ridder which ive wrote a kind of fan fic of, its closer to the movies,m though ii plan to edit more comic origin in there, well, its a way different way to make the skull, i mean hot damn, that would make him 60+ years old, he lookin pretty good if i dont say so myslf, cept for the whole skll face

[Webhead2006]

YEa i was like what the heck when i was reading the final pages of ultimate avengers the other day when i picked it up.

[NEXUS 6]

Making Skull the illegitimate son of Captain America is the most retarded thing to hit the comic book world since... hmm, can't really think of anything worse than that. I mean, how out of character can you get. Cripes, I'm glad I'm not a fan of the ultimate universe.

[Webhead2006]

well it is ultimate verse they are allowed to do what they want their.

[Triad]

Of course the purists are going to b***h, (and I can understand why they would) but I'll give the Ultimates props for going a different route. I haven't read this yet, but I have to admit that the image above of the Red Skull looks pretty badass! Not what you'd expect.

[ManSpider412]

storeman loks familiar i just cant place him, hw big is he?

he played Abruzzi in Prison Break Series 1 and 2

[Webhead2006]

yea i am a purist myself at times. But other times when its characters i dont really know much about or care little about i dont mind a change like this in ultimate/altered/what if universes. Cause the classic Red skull is still their in the main regular 616 verse. Well is he i dont know lol.

[sabetoonth]

he is, and i find thiis intersting cause it creates a different dynamic, instead of he is/was a nazi and therefore an enemy, cao might try and pull him to the light or something, and when he stays evil, it would make it a harder fight, would you want to kill your own son who you just found?

[Webhead2006]

yup should be interesting how it comes to play in the new ultimate line.

[sabetoonth]

the only ultimate books i have are ultimate xmen 1missing the cover
ult marvel team up 2 and 3
now i want to make a custom ult red skull so bad

[Webhead2006]

well only ultimates i read i spidey the old ultimate(have all single titles minus a single issue one) and new one, uff(got all regular issues) and i have read a few ultimates issues but i dont have all of ultimates 2 or any of ultimates 3.

[sabetoonth]

i kep tabs on the universe via internet and wizard

[Aztec]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9449/eorydl6d8qjphg73ib3lalt.jpg

You see it's stuff like this which is why I love Millar's Ultimates! I'm trade waiting this one because I like to have a nice hardcover edition, but I am psyched for Red Skull action!

[KangConquers]

Do we manke him some 50 years older then Cap?? And technically if they go oldschool, well, WW2 was....how long ago.


Wolverine has a healing factor so I can belived he was in WW2 and still looks pretty much the same,


The Skull in the books always gets his but kicked now IMO because he is an oldman, still formidable to a human, but not formidale to a cryo-cap.


I say re-invent the Skully, keep him deformed but go a new route, don't give him origins in WW2


Umm do you read Captain America? Skull was in a clone of Steve's body until 2005. Prior to that clone he used a serum to keep himself young.

As for the age difference, in the comics, Skull is 23 years older than Cap (Schmidt was born in 1899, Rogers in 1922.)

[sabetoonth]

i say stay with comics as a way of his continued living

[Keyser Soze]

I know it's the kind of totally unimaginative, repetitive, bandwagon casting that I usually rag on, but after seeing his performance as Colonel Hans Lamda in Inglourious Basterds, I can't help but imagine Christoph Waltz being a great Red Skull.

[sabetoonth]

i think your the first to suggest waltz as skull

[Brian2887]

I honestly don't like the idea of Red Skull being the villain in both the 40s and the modern day. It's too convenient. "Captain America, thank God we found you because the villain you were fighting when we froze you is back and badder than ever." It's too Austin Powers.

Keep Red Skull in the 40s, with a different villain for the Avengers. The only way I could see connecting the villains of Captain America and the Avengers would be a variation of the Skrull / Chituari angle the Ultimates took.

[Webhead2006]

well we have no clue if skull survives the 40s if he is even going to be used in avengers for all we know it could be the hulk/hydra for first film. I would like them to allued to skull maybe surviving ww2 so then if their is future solo cap films or in future avengers pics for him to return.

[Chewy]

I know it's the kind of totally unimaginative, repetitive, bandwagon casting that I usually rag on, but after seeing his performance as Colonel Hans Lamda in Inglourious Basterds, I can't help but imagine Christoph Waltz being a great Red Skull.
:up:

It's so cliche given Basterds but god help me if he isn't perfect for the part

[Keyser Soze]

Alas, Christoph Waltz was just cast as the villain in Green Hornet, so he's out. :(

[sabetoonth]

what about skulls costumeing? suld he be decked out in nazi unis or that rediculous green jumpsuit thing, or even in the ultimate costume, with a ling blavk coat

[Webhead2006]

nazi suit since it will be WW2 time frame.

[sabetoonth]

figured you ws gonna say that, but i also see him wearing that big coat over it

[Webhead2006]

I see no reason why he could wear some coat over nazi uniform.

[sabetoonth]

who know like a rain coat or trench coat, not all the time, just like when its cold or raining

[Triad]

As far as I'm concerned, Mads Mikkelson IS THE PERFECT choice for Red Skull:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Catch42/mads_mikkelsen.jpghttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Catch42/Mads_Mikkelsen_i_Pus_12433c.jpg
(I know it's been said a million times already, I just thought I'd make it 1,000,001!)

[Webhead2006]

i have nothing against him. i did like his work in casino royale so he is someone on my list of guys i wouldnt mind to see play skull.

[sabetoonth]

never seen him

[Thundercrack85]

I would suggest they (and they might) give Red Skull a real SS rank.

I figure, something like SS-Obergruppenführer, or if it's after 1942, Oberstgruppenführer.

It wasn't uncommon for high ranking Nazi figures to make their own uniforms (Hermann Goring for example was infamous for his many over-the-top uniforms), so Red Skull could have a unique uniform, since he's Hitler's go-to guy.

[sabetoonth]

i still like teh rain cat ovr the shoulders or being worn over his uniform when its rianing, like my red skulll postrer, check my devart or teh cap fanart thread to see it

[Keyser Soze]

It was announced last night that Colm Feore would be playing a mystery villain in Thor. While the most likely choice for his role is Malekith, who showed up in the first draft of the script, could it be that Marvel want a Red Skull cameo to tie into the release of Captain America a couple of months later? Colm Feore would certainly fit the role:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a108/JokerSoze/ColmFeore.jpg

[Triad]

Interesting idea, but I'll bet you are reading too much into it. Like you said, he probably is Malekith. (Or someone commented that he could be playing Odin...I don't remember them officially saying he was playing a villain.)

[Webhead2006]

I dont know who malekith character is, though he is likely going to be that. Plus from what i recall thor will be in present day time along with some asgard stuff to for the film right? where captain america will be in WW2 period.

[Chewy]

I dont know who malekith character is
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2858/917855malekithsuper.jpg

[sabetoonth]

he looks like a nut job

[conan69]

Yes! Perfect!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Catch42/Mads_Mikkelsen_i_Pus_12433c.jpg

[BigSams50]

srry im new to the red skull thread, but who are yalls top choices for red skull?

[sabetoonth]

red the last page
most of our choices r thre

[TwistedMentat]

I'd rather see Mads as a human (pre-Robot) version of Arnim Zola for some reason (I saw an excellent manip on here - probably won me over). Get someone like Til Schweiger or Thomas Kretschmann to play Baron Zemo I. Too Old? Shouldn't have cast Schweighoefer in Thor then, Marvel! I also agree that too many villains can kill a movie. However, I think smart allusions or cameos that make sense wouldn't hurt anything.

Richard Sammel or Christoph Waltz for the Red Skull unquestionably. I'd actually go with Sammel, based upon his LONG history playing Nazis, he's taller than Waltz (who is 5' 8"), and the fact I'm pretty sure he's blond and he has natural blue eyes. He was in Basterds too, playing the German who got his head wacked in. Knows French, English, and I believe Italian fluently, in addition to his native German. Has a thin face, so the mask actually would work. Waltz's chin is a bit too long IMHO for Skull. If you even dare doubt Richard's skills playing a Nazi, I invite you to watch Jean Moulin or the recent series (both are French) 'Un Village Francais.' Just caught episode 8 and he was interrogating a guy and torturing him with a cigarette (want a smoke? - cue the burning) and so on. Had they thrown a mask on him and given a different backstory, he would have been playing the Skull. Also, I don't think he'd care if he was in a mask for most of an American film; he seems to be the sort of actor who just wants to act and explore different roles, not show his face all over the place like many movie stars (and even well-known actors I have seen mentioned before in casting calls for many masked roles...something many would never agree to as they've got to show their mugs for more than half of the film).

My silly rambling aside, cast someone to play the world's 'evillest' Nazi who knows how to play 'em right. No speculation. Hire a guy who knows what the hell he's doing, so we don't get some ridiculous sort of sympathetic rubbish with the RED SKULL of all villains. No cop outs like in so many other Marvel films; sad to say, Loony Bin Jim was one of the more memorable Marvel movie villains lately I thought, and I know a lot of people hated Punisher War Zone and Jim.

Come on Marvel, get with it and make Red Skull so evil that he might give a few kids nightmares. The film can still stay below R or 18 and actually have a truly menacing baddie. I have hope we'll get Mads, Waltz or even Sammel (I'm dreaming) to play him.

[DocHoliday]

What about Michael Fassbender. He speaks German and he's a fan favorite.

[Keyser Soze]

My silly rambling aside, cast someone to play the world's 'evillest' Nazi who knows how to play 'em right. No speculation. Hire a guy who knows what the hell he's doing, so we don't get some ridiculous sort of sympathetic rubbish with the RED SKULL of all villains. No cop outs like in so many other Marvel films; sad to say, Loony Bin Jim was one of the more memorable Marvel movie villains lately I thought, and I know a lot of people hated Punisher War Zone and Jim.

Come on Marvel, get with it and make Red Skull so evil that he might give a few kids nightmares. The film can still stay below R or 18 and actually have a truly menacing baddie. I have hope we'll get Mads, Waltz or even Sammel (I'm dreaming) to play him.

Well said. Red Skull is one villain you CANNOT make into a sympathetic, nuanced character. What I've always liked about him in the comics is how utterly evil he is, how utterly devoid of any redeeming qualities whatsoever. I want to see that on film, a villain we can truly despise.

[sabetoonth]

i agree a million times, give us a mean son of a ***** we can not dispise, but hate and fear and have no good feelings towards him

[Drz]

Johann Schmidt (Main Stream)

http://thecomicbookfile.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/redskull2.jpg
The tragical German guy who fell into love with a jewish girl and everything he cared for got taken away (by his own hands mind you). Until he finally became Hitler's servant and thus became the Red Skull. This is the original and classical swastika symbolic villain of Captain America. Who could possibly fit for this movie if they kill him off aswell in my honest opinion. Why would i want this guy dead? Because i dislike the idea of having this guy as some +60 year old guy (Oh and please no body swapping in the movie universe) guy whos a German nazi. It's just lame to have modern era nazis if you ask me, but for this movie alone and for ww2? Hell yeah! It could work nicely!


Ultimate Red Skull

http://i33.tinypic.com/wwcljd.jpg


This is the Red Skull i'd love to have if they wish to have him in the modern era. Before Captain America went to germany to fight the war, he had sex with his girlfriend (hence this kid is a bastard) and because Captain never came back. **** dropped on to this kid. He was in a facility lab for 17 years of his life. By the time he was 14 he already outdid his father in physical and whatnot tests. The super soldier serum was perfect in the boy's body, but when he turned 17 he realized he was strong enough to escape. Killing everyone in the facility and scarring his own face into what he looks like... why? Because he looked exactly like his father and 17 years of improsoment got him to hate America and his father.

He's the perfect political weapon for hire. An American mercenery whos been involved in all these wars thru out the years. While he is indeed +50 years old the guy has the perfect body of a 20-30 year old, not to mention he loves killing americans and earning money from it. It also adds excelent dilemma for the superstar Captain America to find out his son is the equilevant of Osama Bin Laden. =O


So which one would you prefer in the future Captain America movies and why? :)

[C. Lee]

I go for the mainstream version. The Ultimate one sounds terrible to me (talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face....geeze).

[Chewy]

So the question here is whether we want to see Cap's most iconic villain, one who has been around for 60+ years in the comics and is one of the biggest name and most influential villains in all comicdom, or a mediocre revamp of him that has been around for a few months?

[Webhead2006]

Yea its more then likely going to be regular 616 red skull. Since ultimate red skull is new and not much is going on with his character yet.

[That person]

I'd say they should stick mostly with the 616 version, but I wouldn't mind them borrowing some Ultimate ideas. Namely, they could use the 1610 version for his appearences' origins, but keep the "abusive father" element of the classic origins (If SR taught you ANYTHING WHATSOEVER, it should be that giving superheroes bastard children doesn't work, especially for boy scout figures. If they want to revieve him, they could make him responsible for Cap getting frozen while perserving himself in the same incident, then his body could be discovered by the Sons of the Serpent.

[Gamma Goliath]

616, the ultimate doesnt sound too pleasing to me

[Webhead2006]

totally plus the character is brand new and we dont have his whole story and plot yet. Plus with the film being ww2 its definately going to be classic red skull.

[Spider-Fan]

That Ultimate version sounds like crap. 616.

[[A]]

I'm sure the movie-verse would make a nice little mix.

[sabetoonth]

i think classic should be used for this move, with a few different elemsnts from diferent versions thrown in. im a fan of the ultimate vers personally, but i still love me some 616

[tamron]

That Ultimate version sounds like crap. 616.

This.

[Triad]

Johann Schmidt (Main Stream)
The tragical German guy who fell into love with a jewish girl and everything he cared for got taken away (by his own hands mind you). Until he finally became Hitler's servant and thus became the Red Skull. This is the original and classical swastika symbolic villain of Captain America. Who could possibly fit for this movie if they kill him off aswell in my honest opinion. Why would i want this guy dead? Because i dislike the idea of having this guy as some +60 year old guy (Oh and please no body swapping in the movie universe) guy whos a German nazi. It's just lame to have modern era nazis if you ask me, but for this movie alone and for ww2? Hell yeah! It could work nicely!


Ultimate Red Skull
This is the Red Skull i'd love to have if they wish to have him in the modern era. Before Captain America went to germany to fight the war, he had sex with his girlfriend (hence this kid is a bastard) and because Captain never came back. **** dropped on to this kid. He was in a facility lab for 17 years of his life. By the time he was 14 he already outdid his father in physical and whatnot tests. The super soldier serum was perfect in the boy's body, but when he turned 17 he realized he was strong enough to escape. Killing everyone in the facility and scarring his own face into what he looks like... why? Because he looked exactly like his father and 17 years of improsoment got him to hate America and his father.

He's the perfect political weapon for hire. An American mercenery whos been involved in all these wars thru out the years. While he is indeed +50 years old the guy has the perfect body of a 20-30 year old, not to mention he loves killing americans and earning money from it. It also adds excelent dilemma for the superstar Captain America to find out his son is the equilevant of Osama Bin Laden. =O


So which one would you prefer in the future Captain America movies and why? :)


Sue me, but I agree with Drz. I really don't like the idea too much of pushing the boundaries of probability by having both Cap and his nemesis being preserved into modern times. I know that it goes against the cannon, but I would prefer that the original Red Skull be killed off in TFA:CA.
If they wanted to bring an element of the Skull back in The Avengers movie, I actually like the synopsis of the Ultimate Red Skull's origin that Drz posted above. I know that the character is new and hasn't been tested yet, but I admit that I like the concept from what I've read.

[Triad]

EDIT: double post.

[tamron]

Look, Ultimate is a different universe and that's cool. But I really don't want movie Cap having bastard sons or anything like that. That idea kind of works for Ult Cap bc he's really more like 616 US Agent.

I don't mind them taking a few, minor points from the Ult Universe for the film, but something like that changes both characters (and invites comparisons to Superman Returns). I'd much rather them hew closer to 616.

[sabetoonth]

what if they take the he cuts his face off part? i could live with that

[Gamma Goliath]

eh, the ultimate isnt movie worthy, 616 works

[Stripesy Strip]

You know, I was prefering Red Skull as a great sadistic agent from the Reich that wears a mask for him to be different from Cap but more I think about it, more I think it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would he wear a mask? At least Baron Zemo is disfigured. Also I would think Hitler wouldn't like that if somebody would go out of the Nazi ranks and build his own legend apart from the Reich. The concept of the Nazies was all about Hitler being God-like and no other can even question that he rules everything and nobody can come close to him. The only way for the masked Skull to work would be for him to create a Red Skull organisation after the demise of the Nazi Regime to replace it. And Schimth, the leader would wear that mask as an amblem for this new organisation/cause.

I guess I could see birth defect/war injury would work better. Maybe his surname would be Red Skull even if his appearance wouldn't be that freakish. He could only be some ugly bald guy with a war injury, giving him a redish ue. People call him the RK as surname. And then after the war, he creats the Red Skull organisation and starts wearing a mask(learning the trick of psychological warfare that a costume provides from Captain America).

[Webhead2006]

well we will have to see what joe decides to do with skull.

[sabetoonth]

i still like the idea of him cutting off his own face, makes him sem lesssane and more evil to me, he cuts off his own face AND is a nazi? i wouldnt mind seeing that, though as long as we get the red skull being disfigured im happy