X-Men

[Havok83]

Except he wasn't a mutant for that first appearance and a long, long time after. :o
lol....Im just trying to get into Marvel's thought process. I didnt say they made any sense...lol

At the end of the day though this is all done to rebrand the character and make him relevant within the books today. He's one of their longest running characters but doesnt have nearly the appeal or popularity as someone like Captain America has. They've made several attempts at reviving interest in him over the years with limited to no success at all. I think throwing him with the Xmen and officially making him an X-character is their way of pushing him by giving him an instant history and tie to a long running franchise which has been among their best. I definetly thought that was a jumping the shark moment though bc they literally let anyone and their mama into the X-men these days. As long as you are a mutant, you are automatically included and its the same issue I had with putting Cloak and Dagger here (both of whom were promptly removed once they were confirmed to not be mutants)

For what its worth, it has exposed the character to alot of fans who otherwise knew little to nothing of him and previously ignored him. On the otherside his inclusion feels forced and I dont think people really care for him any more than they had before. Im not sure if the Xmen was the best route for them to go with him. They probably should have given him to Bendis and let him work his magic on the character by pushing him through the ranks of the Avengers. At least he has history there

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, I understand why they did it. It just feels very transparent and artificial to me, since Namor has literally no business being with the X-Men except as a means of Marvel pushing him on new people. It's not good storytelling or anything, it's a blatant case of, "We're just using this guy here 'cause we can't seem to get you to buy him anywhere else."

Except, as you pointed out, he has a long-standing acquaintance with the Avengers already, so it would've made more sense to try and get him to ride that franchise's current high. Or hell, parlay the Avengers' success into a renewed Defenders series by making retooling them as part of the Avengers franchise (which they were always close to anyway, what with the long-standing rivalry and the double-membership of virtually all of the main Defenders).

[Havok83]

Except, as you pointed out, he has a long-standing acquaintance with the Avengers already, so it would've made more sense to try and get him to ride that franchise's current high. Or hell, parlay the Avengers' success into a renewed Defenders series by making retooling them as part of the Avengers franchise (which they were always close to anyway, what with the long-standing rivalry and the double-membership of virtually all of the main Defenders).That would have made more sense especially considering how Dr. Strange has been utilized in New Avengers since Civil War and Hulk is also on a current high. Defenders spinning out of the Avengers may have had more success released today. And considering Red Hulk will be joining the Avengers, thats a great oppurtunity for a crossover which = sales. Too bad they werent thinking like you

[TheCorpulent1]

Boulder and I should totally be running things at Marvel. :oldrazz:

[JewishHobbit]

I wouldn't buy Defenders. I have just never been able to care about that book... unless Beast and Iceman were in it again :)

[Havok83]

I wouldn't buy Defenders. I have just never been able to care about that book... unless Beast and Iceman were in it again :)
Iceman isnt used in the Xmen and Beast gave a big FU to them. Im sure they could find a space for them in a new title. Like you, I wouldnt take a second look at a Defenders title, but with Iceman there, I most definetly would

[TheCorpulent1]

That's confused me about the recent Defenders comics. They seem to want to take one extreme or the other--either include only the core guys or only the ancillary or new guys. Back in the '70s and '80s, Defenders was a pretty good mix of both. I don't know why they don't attempt that again. Get Strange, the Surfer, the Hulk, and Namor, plus Valkyrie, Nighthawk, Daimon Hellstrom, Hellcat, and a couple new characters (to the team, not necessarily brand-new). Just make it a good mix, same way the Avengers have finally gotten most of their core characters back but have a few newer ones as well.

[Jake Cassidy]

I liked the New Defenders with Angel, Beast, Iceman, Valkyrie and Gargoyle.

I love that idea too, Corp.

[hippie_hunter]

I say make the Defenders like their counterparts in Twisted Toyfare Theatre.

[runawayboulder]

I say make the Defenders like their counterparts in Twisted Toyfare Theatre.

I say do that for the entire Marvel Universe.

Or at least Iron Man.....

[JewishHobbit]

I liked the New Defenders with Angel, Beast, Iceman, Valkyrie and Gargoyle.

I love that idea too, Corp.

That's the only era I was even remotely interested in. I bought the last issue but don't remember anything about it. There's something about Gargoyle that I kinda like too. I think I first started liking him in Earth X.

[TheCorpulent1]

I like him too. I think it's the duality of his grotesque appearance and his sweet, gentle personality. Pretty common trope, but he pulls it off particularly well.

[runawayboulder]

X-Men #4 unlettered preview:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28424

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/thumbnail.php?file=/assets/images/preview/a648b3di6457/prv6457_cov.jpg&w=170 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=6457&cover=1)

[Manic]

I'm calling it now. The X-Club will find a cure.

[runawayboulder]

That would be a cop out if you ask me.

[Manic]

Yeah, well, he sorta wrote himself into a corner when he turned Wolverine into a vampire. Either the X-Club finds a cure, or it turns out Logan is faking it. :whatever:

[JewishHobbit]

Or he is then killed and goes to Hell and his body is taken over or something like that... nothing like death to cure you of vampirism.

[Manic]

Right, I forgot about Jason Logan Goes To Hell.

[runawayboulder]

Or they kill off Jubilee using the old rule "kill the vamp that turned you". That would make no sense since Jubilee has been thrust back into the spotlight using the vampire angle. If they kill Drac's son then they would both turn back. This is tough because Jubilee is actually being used again......I'm curious to see how Gischler lets this play out in the end.

[Manic]

I'm sure Jubilee won't get killed off or anything. I mean, how absurd would it be to let a character wallow in obscurity for a time, pulling them back into the fold only to kill them off in one storyline? No writer at Marvel is that terrible.

NIGHTCRAWLER!!!!!

[uchiha_itachi]

Or his healing factor somehow gets him out of it?

[JewishHobbit]

If they take this Vampire thing and run with it all throughout the Marvel Universe in a building sort of way (I know they're due to hit Avengers eventually) then I'd actually kinda prefer Jubilee to stay a vampire for a while and get some exposure outside of the X-Men books. Wolverine obviously won't stay that way, and that could be the lead-in to Avengers, as he is on the Avengers and they may have more reach as far as trying to rescue her. That's my opinion anyhow.

[squeekness]

I'm sure Jubilee won't get killed off or anything. I mean, how absurd would it be to let a character wallow in obscurity for a time, pulling them back into the fold only to kill them off in one storyline? No writer at Marvel is that terrible.

NIGHTCRAWLER!!!!!Wild Child. :waa:

Or his healing factor somehow gets him out of it?I think this is what will happen. Just like the brood, he'll fight it for a while and then eventualy shrug it of.

[TheCorpulent1]

Or his healing factor somehow gets him out of it?
That's my bet. I think his healing factor will have a delayed response to the vampirism. It'll cure him eventually, but for the moment it's having a tough time. The exact same thing happened to Sif when Dracula bit her in a Thor comic.

[Havok83]

I havent even read the last issue of the new series. Was it any good?

[TheCorpulent1]

It was all right. The X-Men aren't all colossal douchebags in X-Men, so I'm sticking with it. The story has some... let's be polite and call them "oversights"... but it's getting the job done well enough.

[javi1024]

im more enjoying the art more than anything else. i think this new series has potential, but im ready for this story to end.

[JewishHobbit]

I'm really enjoying the art as well. I've always liked his art, though his people had large noses in the earlier days if I remember correctly.

[TheCorpulent1]

Diaz has struck a nice balance between realistic emotions and cartoonishly exaggerated figures and action. I like the art a lot.

[Drz]

Advanced preview on Daken #2!!!! (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28439)

[javi1024]

Diaz has struck a nice balance between realistic emotions and cartoonishly exaggerated figures and action. I like the art a lot.
i think you mean Medina.

[Havok83]

Advanced preview on Daken #2!!!! (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28439)
Mystique is still around? Can someone kill her already? Im surprised X-force hasnt handled her yet or that the X-men dont have her captured in the X-brig.

[TheCorpulent1]

i think you mean Medina.
Yes, I probably do. There are two Pacos in comics with vaguely similar styles and I get them confused constantly. :o

[JewishHobbit]

Mystique is still around? Can someone kill her already? Im surprised X-force hasnt handled her yet or that the X-men dont have her captured in the X-brig.

I'm trying to think of the last time Mystique came was around... I know she was in the Iceman story in the Manifest Destiny mini. Was that it?

[Havok83]

I'm trying to think of the last time Mystique came was around... I know she was in the Iceman story in the Manifest Destiny mini. Was that it?
She was just in the Dark X-men earlier this year

[Manic]

That Manifest Destiny story (written by Carey, I think) hinted at a future story where Mystique will stalk Iceman and force him to fall in love with her (I'm assuming under a different identity). Give us that story, and then kill the b**** off.

[TheCorpulent1]

What's wrong with Mystique? :huh:

[JewishHobbit]

She was just in the Dark X-men earlier this year

Thaaaaat's right. Man, how forgetable was that? I was so let down by all that... such promise... good characters... and nothing much came of it.

[Manic]

What's wrong with Mystique? :huh:

She's turned into Ms. "I Hurt You Because I Love You!" It's getting incredibly annoying. It was one thing when her attention was focused solely on Rogue, but now she's in love with Iceman. She poisoned him, posed as his ex-girlfriend Opal to have sex with him, chased him across the country and killed everyone in her path, and then threatened to blow up the Golden Gate Bridge if the X-Men didn't send Iceman to talk to her. Then when he told her he could never love her, she jumped off the bridge screaming, "The next time we meet, I'LL MAKE YOU LOVE MEEEEEEEEE" And that's just the stuff from Manifest Destiny.

One of the X-Men's greatest villains, ladies and gentlemen.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, that was just one stupid story with her. She was in that great Wolverine arc a couple years ago and it's not like they revealed she used to love Wolver... well, s***. :dry:

[Manic]

And then there's all the s*** she did while she was on Rogue's X-Men team, during Messiah CompleX, and that time she tried to seduce Gambit by posing as a student named Foxx. Why did she try to seduce Gambit? To prove to Rogue that Gambit will cheat on her so she could introduce Rogue to another man she thinks would be better.

[Havok83]

Thaaaaat's right. Man, how forgetable was that? I was so let down by all that... such promise... good characters... and nothing much came of it.yeah I forgot about it too till you asked about her. That team did have potential to be a good villianous team but too bad they waited too long to give them a mini just as Norman was ending his reign. The team never really did anything outside of Utopia.

She's turned into Ms. "I Hurt You Because I Love You!" It's getting incredibly annoying. It was one thing when her attention was focused solely on Rogue, but now she's in love with Iceman. She poisoned him, posed as his ex-girlfriend Opal to have sex with him, chased him across the country and killed everyone in her path, and then threatened to blow up the Golden Gate Bridge if the X-Men didn't send Iceman to talk to her. Then when he told her he could never love her, she jumped off the bridge screaming, "The next time we meet, I'LL MAKE YOU LOVE MEEEEEEEEE" And that's just the stuff from Manifest Destiny.

One of the X-Men's greatest villains, ladies and gentlemen. She has gotten annoying and whats sad is that she's one of the few classic X villians left. Most are either depowered, dead, prisoners in the Brig or now X-men themselves. I think the push to assimilate the Xmen more into the Marvel Universe is bc they dont have a large rogue's gallery anymore. The few good ones they had left got taken out in Second Coming and even those consisted of dead ones that had to be resurrected. Thats one thing I miss about the 80s and 90s. The Xmen had some reall great villians. I missed the days when Sinister, Magneto, Apocalypse, the Brood, Phalanx, Brotherhood/Freedom Force, Hellfire Club, etc... were all big threats causing trouble

[TheCorpulent1]

There's absolutely no reason all of those characters couldn't be great villains for the X-Men again...

[Manic]

I missed the days when Sinister, Magneto, Apocalypse, the Brood, Phalanx, Brotherhood/Freedom Force, Hellfire Club, etc... were all big threats causing trouble

There's absolutely no reason all of those characters couldn't be great villains for the X-Men again...

Sinister is dead
Magneto is a good guy with little or no reason to turn bad
Apocalypse is coming back as an X-Force villain
Phalanx got ****ed up during Annihilation
Brotherhood members are either dead, depowered, or living under X-Men protection
Hellfire Club is more or less defunct, and the last complete version of the group seen were more neutral than bad.

[TheCorpulent1]

So, like I said, there's absolutely no reason all of those characters couldn't be great villains for the X-Men again.

[Manic]

Maybe Apocalypse and the Phalanx.

[TheCorpulent1]

Right, 'cause no one ever gets resurrected and characters don't ever change their minds again. ;)

[Manic]

Dammit, Magneto must stay good or neutral!! No writer has ever come up with a good reason for him to turn into a villain again.

[TheCorpulent1]

Killing people is easy and fun?

[Manic]

But he always regrets killing people afterward.

I think writers should just say that Magneto is a schizophrenic. It'd explain so much.

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, if you start thinking like that, it'd make a lot of characters make more sense. :o

[runawayboulder]

I was never into the Phalanx.

Mystique has got to be the biggest whore in the Marvel universe, at least in the X-Men. She got a sexual history with so many friggin people just because she's a shapeshifter it's been beaten to DEATH just over the past 10 yrs. She's jumped back and forth between good and evil way too much also. They need to pick a side for her and leave her there. I'd prefer evil because she's got serious potential to be a major threat to the X-Men IMO. She's worse than Magneto could ever be as a ship jumper.

Sinister needs to come back too....as a dude. I think it's time for Genosha to come back as it once was.....a place that was dangerous for mutants as it was for humans. Sinister could make that happen if Marvel continues to move away from the extinction cloud hanging over the mutant race for the past 5 yrs.

[Havok83]

Sinister was always one of my favorites and I hated that they killed him off and brought on some female replacement which they have yet to even use. Id rather see him resurrected

[runawayboulder]

There's a whole slew of people they need to bring back. Black Tom, Hellfire Club, Mastermind, Sen. Kelly, Moira. When Kelly and Moira were killed in Dream's End, at the time it was pretty powerful. Now looking back I feel it was kinda reckless because the X-Men are sorely missing those characters these days. The political side of X-Men was a key part of the line for a long time.

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe Chaos War will bring a few of them back. The dead are all coming back to life anyway; no reason a few couldn't stay alive.

[roach]

There's a whole slew of people they need to bring back. Black Tom, Hellfire Club, Mastermind, Sen. Kelly, Moira. When Kelly and Moira were killed in Dream's End, at the time it was pretty powerful. Now looking back I feel it was kinda reckless because the X-Men are sorely missing those characters these days. The political side of X-Men was a key part of the line for a long time.

the thing is when you kill a character you have to move another character in to fill the void...you cant just kill Magneto and not have someone take his place as the X-men's top enemy....thats how you end up with stupid retcons and resurrections

[Havok83]

Maybe Chaos War will bring a few of them back. The dead are all coming back to life anyway; no reason a few couldn't stay alive.
they had the oppurtunity to do that with Necrosha and not a single of those villians stuck. In fact all that story did was make us lose more villians. I wouldnt put much hope into Chaos War fixing the issue

[chris moore]

They're having a NY based team?

[TheCorpulent1]

Where'd you hear that?

[Anubis]

Don't they already have a NY based team? Or does X-Factor not count?

[Manic]

X-Factor is so unaffiliated with the X-Men that they might as well take the X out of their name.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think X-Factor wants to count. Cyclops is one of Madrox's least favorite people.

[JewishHobbit]

they had the oppurtunity to do that with Necrosha and not a single of those villians stuck. In fact all that story did was make us lose more villians. I wouldnt put much hope into Chaos War fixing the issue

I was really hoping that Proteus would stick around from X-Men Legacy's branch of Necrosha. Oh well.

[roach]

it would make sense as there are lots of xmen

[javi1024]

I was really hoping that Proteus would stick around from X-Men Legacy's branch of Necrosha. Oh well.
i dont know, you cant really have someone that powerful just walking around too long before they get stale or just forgotten. i mean look at Jean, X-Man, Sentry...

[JewishHobbit]

i dont know, you cant really have someone that powerful just walking around too long before they get stale or just forgotten. i mean look at Jean, X-Man, Sentry...

Good writers can make it work. Do more with him than just having him walking around throwing tantrums and you might have something more to work with.

[Anubis]

Yeah but Good writers are few and far between.

[Manic]

Especially in the X-Men franchise. Marvel has a habit of hiring writers who suck or good writers who don't "get" the X-Men to write the X-Men.

[chris moore]

Where'd you hear that?

X-position on CBR. When asked what's next after the vamps are vanquished, Gischler said "New York Baby", then there was a question about a core team (in general), and a comment referring to one, but that it rarely holds in his mind.

[chamber-music]

Sinister is dead
Magneto is a good guy with little or no reason to turn bad
Apocalypse is coming back as an X-Force villain
Phalanx got ****ed up during Annihilation
Brotherhood members are either dead, depowered, or living under X-Men protection
Hellfire Club is more or less defunct, and the last complete version of the group seen were more neutral than bad.
Damn no wonder they are fighting vampires and stuff when they get rid of any decent villains they have. I liked seeing Emplate come back, wish writers brought back more old villains and gave them up grades to be bigger threats.

[NightBeetle]

Gillen's Future is "Uncanny' (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28468)

http://i55.tinypic.com/sw7nth.jpg

For most of the Marvel Universe's (http://marvel.com/) super teams being a hero means fighting against present and immediate threats, all in an effort to preserve a status quo. That's not the case, however, for Marvel's mutant outcasts, the X-Men. Rather than attempting to keep things as they stand, they're fighting for a better future, hoping that by working to protect a world that fears and hates them, they'll eventually change people's minds and create a world where mutants and humans can coexist peacefully. Come December, a new voice will help chronicle mutantkind's quest for a better tomorrow as newly exclusive Marvel writer Kieron Gillen begins co-writing "Uncanny X-Men" with the series' current scribe Matt Fraction.


To date, much of Gillen's time with Marvel has been spent chronicling the events in and around the legendary city of Asgard with books like "Thor," "Siege: Loki" and a special "Siege" tie-in issue of "New Mutants." The writer has also been exploring the X-universe as well, having worked on the series "S.W.O.R.D.," which featured the Beast, and is the writer of the upcoming mutant centric series "Generation Hope" along with his recently announced "Uncanny" co-writing gig.


"The central conceit of the book is that they're protecting a world that hates and fears them. There's a core idea of alienation, but still feeling the need to do good anyway. That's a powerful and useful way for thinking about life," Gillen told CBR News. "So the concept is great, but the kind of things that make it appealing also make it so difficult to write. It's a book with a cast of hundreds. I'll sit down and write an issue of 'Thor' and I only really have to focus on Thor. With the X-Men, you've got this enormous cast and all of them have some form of relationship with one another. There's an incredibly intricate back history there. The challenge of tackling all of that makes this book very appealing to me. I never want to make things too easy for myself."

Gillen believes that "Uncanny X-Men" is a book that's fundamentally about the future, thus the stories he's interested in telling will mostly look forward instead of back into the past. "'Thor' is a fantasy book. That's a genre that's mostly small-C conservative. In fantasy there's this idea that long ago there was a better time than now," the writer remarked. "Thor gains its energy by mashing that 'ideal' world view against the real world. The X-Men has always been a book about the future. There's the idea that what it means to be human can change, but it will be difficult. Those are just really interesting ideas. What that means and the different ways of looking at it is what drew me to this book.


"You look at the plots we can have. I was working on the background for 'Generation Hope' during 'Second Coming.' Reading that, as both a writer and a reader, it seemed like a monument to the X-Men stories that revolve around man trying to kill mutants. You had a team-up of all these people who wanted to wipe out mutants. That's a type of X-Men story that has been done a lot, and now that we've done something as big as 'Second Coming,' the next step has to be, 'What if we don't tell a story about someone who wants to wipe out mutants?'" Gillen continued. "Let's examine some other possible interests people might have in mutants. People don't necessarily just try to stamp out the future. The 'new' isn't just hated and feared, and it can be hurt in ways besides simply taking a torch to it."

Gillen is also interested in telling X-Tales that primarily revolve around Earth and mutantkind's place on it. "It's not that I don't like the space stories, but a cosmic story set in and around Earth strikes me as a truer X-Men tale. With the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix stories, the ascension to that cosmic godhood starts grounded in its terrestrial elements. That moment of ascension is key," the writer explained. "Also, in a more general sense it's a social book, in that it's a book about the new in the context of society. The stories use the mutant condition as a way to examine a particular idea or philosophy. So you look at the world in terms of plot, by means of contrast. One of the important facets of mutants in the Marvel Universe is this idea of being an alien in the society that you're from. Mutants are less strange when you take them away from Earth because they're not experiencing that same form of prejudice. In space, everyone's strange, everyone's an alien."

Over the last several years, the focus of the X-Men has changed from fighting prejudice to survival. After the Scarlet Witch's mutant powers reworked reality and turned mutants into an endangered species, the X-Men had their hands full trying to protect what remained of mutantkind from forces that wanted to snuff them out forever. With the dawning of the "Heroic Age" and the appearance of five newly created mutants, Gillen feels that the role of the X-Men is somewhere in between superheroics and militarized mutant protection.

"I think they're both, because Cyclops isn't relaxing. The fact that new mutants appeared didn't necessarily solve everything. 'Second Coming' was about them stopping this large group that wanted to wipe out mutants. That was a big, enormous win for them, but Cyclops can't relax. He's haunted. On the other hand though he also realized that they've got to go out and reengage the world again," Gillen stated.

"That's one of the interesting sets ups in 'Uncanny.' They had found hope in the form of a mutant messiah named Hope, but now they have to figure out what that means. There's still time to do that, though. They're still engaging with the world. That's one of the reasons why I love them being in San Francisco. I think it really, really works."
Another reason Gillen enjoys the current direction of "Uncanny X-Men" is the book's large and incredibly flawed cast of characters. "None of them are the pure, unvarnished hero. If you compare Cyclops to Captain America, both are perfect soldiers, but self doubt and a perfectionist attitude area big part of Cyclops's character," the writer said. "Those kinds of personality quirks are what interest me, because I haven't known many heroes, but I've known a lot of flawed human beings [Laughs]. So I'm quite comfortable writing those types of characters."


Gillen is particularly fascinated by the personality quirks of characters like Emma Frost (the White Queen), Cyclops and Namor. "I often joked that the character of Emily Aster in 'Phonogram' was my White Queen audition tape. That type of person is my type of person. While I like Emma's confidence, I also find Cyclops' self doubting nature to also be appealing," the writer revealed. "I like Namor for the same reason I like Doctor Doom. They're similar in that they're very arrogant and regal men. I can do that. Cyclops probably plays to my many insecurities, but Namor is appealing because of my complete, stupid arrogance [Laughs].

"There's also a lot of characters whose visuals I enjoy. I always thought Colossus was an incredible visual. I thought Havok was an incredible visual and I thought Rachel Summers was, too," Gillen continued. "I always really liked Rachel."
Comic book heroes are often defined by the villains they face and Gillen has big plans for several members of the X-Men's rogues gallery. "With the X-Men villains, I'd love to build them up a bit more. I just want to make them credible threats again. You look at the past seven years of Marvel and there's been this kind of internal dissent. With heroes, you've got this suspense of you don't know who's going to win in a fight between characters like Iron Man and Captain America. Villains who have been defeated time and time again really aren't that much of a threat," Gillen remarked.

"For lack of a better phrase, I've been looking for ways to get the X-Men villains to 'man up.' [Laughs] I've got plans for characters that I want to use and ways to make them threatening that are insidious and sure, while still embracing the fundamental precepts of the superhero genre. I think the recent developments with the Spider-Man villains are a good example of how to do that and how to do that very well." For their first arc Gillen and Fraction are bringing back a different kind of villain, the sentient bacteria known as Sublime. Created by Grant Morrison during his acclaimed "New X-Men" run, Sublime first gained sentience when life arose on Earth. It could infect and possess people to work its will and developed an antipathy towards mutants because many of them were immune to its infection.

"Sublime has a way of seeing the world. The interesting thing about it is that it inspires people. It got into people, and not just virally. Sublime really hasn't changed. Its core idea of what mutants are and what they're for does not alter just because they're dying out," Gillen explained. "I can't really say any more than that. Sublime has a philosophy and a lot of what we're doing in this first arc is people applying that philosophy to the current state of mutantkind."

Gillen and Fraction's initial arc is about the exploitation of talent and corporate procreation. It spins out of developments from the recent "Nation X" arc and focuses on the original X-Men. "The original five X-Men are very important to this story," Gillen remarked. "We also spotlight some characters you may not expect. Dazzler is in it a lot. I've got an enormous crush on her. She was my first Marvel-Universe work, after all."
While you don't have to read Gillen's "Generation Hope" to understand "Uncanny X-Men," Gillen plans on rewarding fans of both books with scenes that will tie them together in fun and interesting ways.

"If you read my 'Siege' crossover where I did the 'Loki' one-shot, the issue of 'New Mutants' and those issues of 'Thor,' they all came out in the same month. No matter which one you read, you got a complete story, but if you did read them all you went, 'Oh yeah - I get it.' So if you're reading both books, you'll get a bit of extra value. Both books will have their own delineated characters arcs inside their respective titles. I think this is an interesting opportunity to do that well and I don't want to bring a sledgehammer to it. You can write them as shared world books and do lots of stuff that rewards people who read both without making it a case of you must buy both books."
Since "Generation Hope" spins out of the current "Five Lights" arc in "Uncanny X-Men," Gillen and Fraction had many discussions about how the two stories would intersect and it was those discussions that laid the ground work for Gillen's co-writing gig. "'Five Lights' is basically the origin story of four of these new mutants. The origin story of the fifth mutant and what happened to him or her is the opening arc of 'Generation Hope.' So we sort of co-plotted that part of the arc. I didn't have anything else to do with what happened in those issues, but we did talk about where these new mutant characters come from, what they get up to and how they respond to becoming a mutant. That was kind of a test run for what we're doing with 'Uncanny.'

There was a moment before scripting the 'Five Lights' and 'Generation Hope' where we we discussing which mutant I wanted my first 'Generation Hope' arc to revolve around. It was almost like we worked out which order the other four characters would be revealed in. Because abstractly, any one of those five characters could have been the first 'Generation Hope' arc. So when the question came up afterwords of us co-writing 'Uncanny,' that relationship was already there."

The Fraction-Gillen collaboration is still new and the duo is currently experimenting to find their preferred method of working together. "The way our issues break down is not as simple as one of us plots and the other scripts. Matt had a strong idea of where we're going, and when I came in, I asked if we could do certain things.

So there are some changes in the way ideas are executed. With our first issue I did a lot of the scripting and then Matt went back over and had a pass at it. We're still working out how we'll do our next issues. The only rule in comics creation is that what ever works, works," Gillen said. "This is a medium which bastardizes, breeds, inbreeds and just generally breeds. So there really isn't one correct way to do comics. You've got to invent methods for every job. In lot of ways it feels like being part of the X-Men. You're dealing with the future by using whatever tools you can create.
"This is an enormously difficult book and I'm looking forward to wrestling with it," Gillen concluded. "It's a book with a big history to it and I'm in the company of someone like Matt - so I'll have someone to blame it on if it all goes wrong [Laughs]."

[Brainiac 8]

I hope he finally shows Hank and Scott sit down and talk and attempt to mend their freindship.

[Iron Man]

I hope he finally shows Hank and Scott sit down and talk and attempt to mend their freindship.

I don't think that'll happen until Scott admits he was wrong about X-Force.

[TheCorpulent1]

Anyone else find it a bit odd that they mentioned the X-Men fighting to protect a world that hates and fears them like 3 times up at the top, even though that hasn't really been the core concept of the X-Men since M-Day?

[Havok83]

it never really has been the concept of the X-men. Go back through its history and for the vast majority, they've been about protecting themselves. If they saved the world in the process, that was a coincidence. Most of their threats have been targeted against them and/or other mutants. Rarely do they go out of their way to handle stuff that is hurting the public at large if they dont have a personal stake in it.

[roach]

it never really has been the concept of the X-men. Go back through its history and for the vast majority, they've been about protecting themselves. If they saved the world in the process, that was a coincidence. Most of their threats have been targeted against them and/or other mutants. Rarely do they go out of their way to handle stuff that is hurting the public at large if they dont have a personal stake in it.

honestly thats not true...thru a majority of the run I have read (80's-2000's) that has been the case. The X-men have or had a two fold job. Protect humanity from mutants(which happened in the very first issue when Mags tried to nuke the world or pretty much every Magneto story) and protect mutants from humanity.
I believe the one part of that mission they have forgotten about in the current run is protecting humanity. The Xmen were about intergration...teaching mutants to use their powers so they arent a threat to humanity instead of the segregation that seems to be the current mentality.

[Manic]

The X-Men were pretty much acting like regular superheroes during that year where they were in San Francisco, before they moved to the island. They worked with the police, fought regular crime, and successfully protected the city during Secret Invasion. Then Utopia happened, and they were all about isolating themselves and protecting their own skin.

Speaking of all that, now that they're allowed on the mainland again, maybe they should reopen Graymalkin Industries. It was sorta designed to serve as an embassy in the first place. Now it can actually be one.

[TheCorpulent1]

Cyclops would shoot that idea down on the basis of not seeing how it would allow him to murderize more anti-mutant folks. :oldrazz:

[Manic]

Ah, but Cyclops ended his wetworks ops after Steve Rogers breathed down his neck.

Now it's Wolverine satisfying his bloodlust by running X-Force without Scotty's knowledge.

[TheCorpulent1]

(But totally with Scotty's tacit approval.) :oldrazz:

It's kind of funny that Steve got all uppity about Scott's black ops squad, only to create a black ops squad himself with the Secret Avengers--which Beast, who left the X-Men over Scott's black ops squad, happily joined. Granted, the Secret Avengers seem to be more about being proactive and/or taking on threats that fly under the radar rather than killin' up a storm. I view them more like a superhero SHIELD than a murder squad. :up:

[Manic]

I think Beast doesn't have a problem with a little espionage and pre-emptive action, which is what the Secret Avengers are. X-Force, however, was an assassin team. I don't think Hank would've left if Scott was, say, running Charles' old spy network.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Secret or not, the Secret Avengers have more honest hero cred in Steve's pinky than all of X-Force put together.

Actually, come to think of it, are the Secret Avengers even really secret? Given the crossovers I'm seeing solicited, they're going to be attacking some pretty well known characters, in public, in costume. Not really the best way to keep a squad of heroes "secret."

[Brainiac 8]

Given what the mutants had gone through over the period of time post "House of M" with all the children being murdered right under Scott's nose and such...I still completely understand where Scott was coming from when he decided to militarize the X-Men.

Heck I even understand his idea behind X-Force, so something like the massacre of those children never happen again, but even he realized he went the wrong way about it when he disbanded X-Force.

Every leader is allowed one or two mistakes.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, yeah, I've heard all that before. Excuses are always handy for murder. :awesome:

And it sounds like he didn't disband X-Force too willingly if Steve had to talk to him about it. Maybe Manic mischaracterized it, though; I didn't read the story with the disbanding.

[runawayboulder]

Beast's biggest gripe was Scott was sending kids like X-23 and Wolfsbane out to kill people. Plus Warren going back to being Archangel bothered him. Hank was the most supportive to Warren (dating back to X-Factor vol 1 and UXM gold squad) when he was wrestling with his dark side.

[TheCorpulent1]

Has any reason whatsoever been given for why Warren's cool with totally giving into his murderous dark side all of a sudden? He spent a lot of the original X-Factor run battling it tooth and nail and seemed to finally find some measure of peace when he was rid of the metal wings and the violent impulses. Then they come back and he's just like, "Oh, cool, I guess I'll just go a-murderin' with Wolverine and the gang now. Toodley-doo..."

[runawayboulder]

IDK, I think he's accepted it somewhat because now he can control it at will. It's never really been delved into as far as I can remember.

[Manic]

Warren was being written by KY, who don't understand the concept of internal conflict within a character. They just understand "Fight scenes and death! People are gonna love this!"

The bastards were right, it turns out, because very few of us have bothered questioning Archangel's characterization since regaining his Death form.

[TheCorpulent1]

Ugh, it's stuff like that that makes me worry for the Avengers cartoon. :o

[Iron Man]

For me, the worst part of X-Force was the fact that when Wolverine told Cyclops not to put Wolfsbane and X-23 into the field to kill people, Cyclops basically says "Too late!" and ignores Logan's argument that he's sending teenaged girls to murder people.

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, it's a sad day when Wolverine is actually more compassionate than Cyclops anyone besides Deadpool, the Punisher, or outright villains.

[Iron Man]

One of the first scenes goes pretty much exactly like this:

Wolverine: Don't get Laura involved in this. I pulled her out of this world, she needs to find an identity besides killing people. And Rahne doesn't wanna get involved in this either.
Cyclops: Laura's already in the Purifier facility. *gets punched in the face* And Rahne came to me, so there.

It's one of the few times I've actually been rooting for Logan to punch him out.

[runawayboulder]

The slow build for Cyclops crossing to the dark side is similar to DD.......except DD was done in 6-12 months. Scott's path has been going on since The Twelve story over 10yrs ago. The X-writers need to s**t or get off the pot with him.

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think you can really call that a progression. That's a writer starting something, then other writers doing other stuff, then still more writers coming along to start a new progression to the dark side.

[roach]

its the same thing with Xavier...every writer came on an tried to out evil the previous writer.
1) Xavier has secret sexual thoughts about Jean
2) Cerebro gained sentience but Xavier kept it as a slave
3) Xavier sent an untrained team of mutants against Krakoa and when they didnt make it he wiped all memory of their existance

[Manic]

Then it's clear what must happen. We need about a year of Cyclops-centric stories in X-Men Legacy that'll flush all of the evil out of the character. It worked for Charles.

[JewishHobbit]

I'd like it more than the Rogue or Xavier stuff I promise.

[Manic]

I should note: Only do so under the condition that Scott be temporarily removed from all other X-titles.

[Havok83]

its the same thing with Xavier...every writer came on an tried to out evil the previous writer.
1) Xavier has secret sexual thoughts about Jean


Most people think this was a retcon but it wasnt. Xavier's feelings for Jean were established in the very third issue way back in the 60s. All Lobdell was bring it back up, not create some new dark part of his past. Its not quite the smae thing like we've seen Whedon, Brubaker and others have done


http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3746/uxm3xavier.jpg

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/1562/xmen53xavier.jpg

[Raiden]

^ That's like finding out your parent had a crash on you. :dry:

[Manic]

In fairness, the age gap between Chuck & Jean was probably 10 years back in the 60's. He was old enough to be Jean's father by the 90's, though.

[hippie_hunter]

Ah, but Cyclops ended his wetworks ops after Steve Rogers breathed down his neck.

Now it's Wolverine satisfying his bloodlust by running X-Force without Scotty's knowledge.

I don't recall Steve Rogers even finding out about X-Force, just that Scott knows that the Avengers would come down on him hard if they found out about X-Force.

X-Force was disbanded due to Scott deciding to have the X-Men interact with the outside world. X-Force would do nothing but taint the X-Men if it continued on into the Heroic Age. He also wanted to "demilitarize" the X-Men as well and stop being so cold and callous towards life, the reason why he threw away the Presidential Medal of Freedom was because of the way he treated the lives of his teammates and enemies.

[runawayboulder]

Xavier was written as a massive douche going back to when he was shot in X-Cutioners Song. He basically f***ed with all of the X-Men's lives at some point only to then say, "C'mon stand by my side buddy!"

[Manic]

Well, Steve didn't breathe down Scott's neck about X-Force specifically. He breathed down Scott's neck in general, which led to the decision to disband X-Force. That's what I meant, anyway.

[TheCorpulent1]

Where was this? I'm curious now.

[Manic]

Uncanny X-Men: Heroic Age. It was a one-shot. Scott's hanging out in the Savage Land, when Captain Stevie suddenly pops up out of nowhere and tells Scott it's time to bring the X-Men into the light, etc. etc.

[TheCorpulent1]

Huh. Wait, what the hell was Scott doing in the Savage Land? That's a long way from his dictatorship Utopia.

[JewishHobbit]

He was getting some R&R. He did he same thing after Messiah Complex too.

[Havok83]

Huh. Wait, what the hell was Scott doing in the Savage Land? That's a long way from his dictatorship Utopia.
His hobby is killing dinosaurs. He goes there for hunting. Its his way of getting some relief

[TheCorpulent1]

That bastard. What did dinosaurs ever do to him? :csad:

[JewishHobbit]

They evolved into his whore of a girlfriend?

[TheCorpulent1]

Dang, burn. :wow:

[Havok83]

They evolved into his whore of a girlfriend?
no but his AR daughter once did. Its a good thing Rachel's been away. They already have issues....lol

http://www.writeups.org/img/inset/Marvel_Girl_Haukika_h.jpg

[JewishHobbit]

Man... that really was a rough arc.

[chamber-music]

Has any reason whatsoever been given for why Warren's cool with totally giving into his murderous dark side all of a sudden? He spent a lot of the original X-Factor run battling it tooth and nail and seemed to finally find some measure of peace when he was rid of the metal wings and the violent impulses. Then they come back and he's just like, "Oh, cool, I guess I'll just go a-murderin' with Wolverine and the gang now. Toodley-doo..."
I recently read the first 70 issues of X-Factor with the orginal five. It was classic stuff. Whatever happened to the black cop woman Warren was dating?

In fairness, the age gap between Chuck & Jean was probably 10 years back in the 60's. He was old enough to be Jean's father by the 90's, though.
Plus everyone had a crush on Jean back in the day. Scott, Warren, Xavier.

I never new Xavier and Magneto where orginally planned to be brothers.

[JewishHobbit]

I recently read the first 70 issues of X-Factor with the orginal five. It was classic stuff. Whatever happened to the black cop woman Warren was dating?

She's been around here and there as needed. The last time she played a signifigant role that I can think of was during the Neo storyline around 2000. But yeah, she pops in and out as needed.

I never new Xavier and Magneto where orginally planned to be brothers.

I never knew that as well... and I'm glad they weren't. Individuality is key.

[Manic]

I hate it when the hero and the villain are brothers or some crap like that. So thank god that never panned out.


I still think Charles and Erik are secret lovers, though.

[TheCorpulent1]

I hate when they're revealed to secretly be siblings later on. If you start the relationship off that way, no big deal. But don't have them fight for 20 years and then have one go, "You can't kill me! You'd hate yourself if you murdered... your own BROTHER!" :o

[chamber-music]

The whole Polaris being Magneto's daughter was one of the most played out in mutant history. They should of just said he really was the first time it came up.

Don't get me started the third Summers brother Vulcan trash.

Every X-character is related they days. Mastermind alone has got daughters all over the place

[Havok83]

we still dont knoww who the hell Blindfold's brother is. I hope Carey gets around to that sooner than later bc I dont want it to be a dangling forgotten plot for years to come

[JewishHobbit]

Hmm... when was that mentioned? I don't recall a reference to her having a brother.

[Manic]

It was during the Necrosha issues of X-Men Legacy. Destiny came back from the dead like everyone else, and she & Blindfold believed they might be somehow related. Blindfold thinks Destiny might be her real mother. Destiny said something vague about having a son.

I don't remember the specifics of their conversation. Destiny is a cryptic talker, and Blindfold tends to talk in the wrong order.

[Anubis]

The whole Polaris being Magneto's daughter was one of the most played out in mutant history. They should of just said he really was the first time it came up.

Don't get me started the third Summers brother Vulcan trash.

Every X-character is related they days. Mastermind alone has got daughters all over the place


Well, it makes sense when you consider his powers and the type of person he was. I'm surprised the Purple Man doesn't have a ton of taffy babies roaming around the MU.

[Havok83]

It was during the Necrosha issues of X-Men Legacy. Destiny came back from the dead like everyone else, and she & Blindfold believed they might be somehow related. Blindfold thinks Destiny might be her real mother. Destiny said something vague about having a son.

I don't remember the specifics of their conversation. Destiny is a cryptic talker, and Blindfold tends to talk in the wrong order.
No, Destiny didnt have a son. She said that Blindfold's mother had one. The mother died protecting her from her brother. That came across as a hint that he could be a villian. Which one is anyone's guess

[Manic]

Thanks. I tend to skim over conversations with Blindfold in them, so I didn't really catch what they were talking about.

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah okay... I do kinda remember all that now.

[Havok83]

I guess its that time of the year for the obligatory Jean Grey tease. They only do it like every 2-3 months

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1285356921.jpg

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28517

[Manic]

At this point, it's probably also a Hope tease.

[runawayboulder]

A part of me wants Jean to come back because she's been gone for too long. The other part of me doesn't want her back if they'll have no clue what to do with her 6 months after she comes back.

[JewishHobbit]

I want her to come back and I want Emma gone. Emma's a pore excuse for someone taking over Jean's role. They're different characters, I get that, but I think both Cyclops and the X-Men franchise has really taken a beating due to it.

Think about it... the X-Men have been a family for years, since day 1. Jean dies, Emma becomes prominant... and suddenly that family feeling was gone. I know it's all writer/editorial, but the times coincide. New X-Men started the evolution to this and that was also the time when things got darker, the books got more disjointed, the teams became more random and less heartfelt, the X-World got more bleak.

Fix things. I say do that Beast leading a fraction team idea and bring back Jean. Put her with Beast's team whiel Cyclops works things out with his side of the coin.

[Manic]

Correlation, not causation.

[TimBisley]

Jean is boring. I hope they don't bring her back. Ever.

[Havok83]

I always thought Jean was the heart of the X-men. They did stop being a family when she left. For me, things quite havent felt the same

[TheCorpulent1]

I just stopped caring. Sorry, you can only tease me so much before I no longer give a s***. :o

[Mateus]

Jean is boring. I hope they don't bring her back. Ever.
i agree, we got Emma Frost, why would we want Jean?

[Manic]

It's been 6 years. I think some people need to move on and stop blaming Jean's death for the decline in quality in the X-Men comics.

Jean's death didn't cause the X-Men books to get darker.
Jean's death didn't make the writers give up the squad system so they can all use the same handful of characters.
Jean's death didn't cause M-Day.

I wanted Jean to come back (albeit without getting back together with Cyclops), but now I feel like I want her to stay dead just to spite all of the people who won't stop whining about her death.

[BrianWilly]

Screw Hope and her five-lighted screwiness. Time for Jean to come back. I don't even care if they screw up the Phoenix anymore, it's time.

[Manic]

I'm enjoying Hope just so I can rub her in the faces of everybody who thought she was gonna be Jean or Rachel.

[Havok83]

the thing is she WILL come back. Thats not even a question. Id rather they just get it over with and bring her back rather than constantly tease her return. I think thats more annoying than anything

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, bring back Jean. It's getting really annoying now with how much they have teased her return with Whedon's Astonishing X-Men and the Messiah Trilogy.

But don't have her hook back up with Cyclops. That marriage should stay over.

[JustABill]

I honestly hope she's joined Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben in Marvel's ''NEVER REALLY COMING BACK EVER!" corner.

[Havok83]

I honestly hope she's joined Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben in Marvel's ''NEVER REALLY COMING BACK EVER!" corner.
haha, never gonna happen. Her last full appearance was set up for her return. Its a matter of when

[Manic]

And frankly, I'm counting the days until Gwen and Ben return. Once Barry Allen, Bucky, and Jason Todd have come back from the dead, all bets are off.

[JustABill]

If Uncle Ben ever comes back I will shoot Marvel in the face. Everyone. :( Don't make me do it Marvel.

Gwen wouldn't shock me in the least as many times as clones of her have showed up. And with the way Carlie Cooper is pretty much her as a red head, it's clear the current crop of Spidey writers have a boner for Gwen.

[runawayboulder]

Has a writer ever pitched the idea to bring Uncle Ben back? I'm sure someone has at some point but has it ever been documented?

[hippie_hunter]

If Uncle Ben ever comes back I will shoot Marvel in the face. Everyone. :( Don't make me do it Marvel.

Gwen wouldn't shock me in the least as many times as clones of her have showed up. And with the way Carlie Cooper is pretty much her as a red head, it's clear the current crop of Spidey writers have a boner for Gwen.

Quesda offered the Spidey Brain Trust to bring back Gwen but they turned it down.

[JewishHobbit]

i agree, we got Emma Frost, why would we want Jean?

As an excuse to get rid of Emma? That's one of the main reasons I'd like to see her return :)

[JewishHobbit]

Quesda offered the Spidey Brain Trust to bring back Gwen but they turned it down.

I thought it was Straczynski who wanted to bring her back as a result of OMD but Quesada turned it down? I could be wrong though.

[TheCorpulent1]

Quesda offered the Spidey Brain Trust to bring back Gwen but they turned it down.
New writers are working on Spider-Man all the time. There'll come a day when someone is so profoundly out of ideas that bringing Gwen back will actually seem like a good one. Just wait.

[Tron Bonne]

I thought it was Straczynski who wanted to bring her back as a result of OMD but Quesada turned it down? I could be wrong though.

The trust wasn't really 'offered' Gwen. It basically went down like this: Straczynski wanted it (basically wanted to reboot everything to late '70s status quo), Quesada said yes, a lot of other writers on the team said no, so Quesada ultimately backed off the idea. That's Quesada's side of the story anyway, but as far as I'm aware, there's been no one to refute that or anything.

[Raiden]

Marvel already said that they are figuring out a way to bring back Jean, and I for one am glad that Jean will return finally. Jean is not a bored character, and I'm not sure where people go the idea that she's not interesting. However, I do hope they will disassociate Jean with the Phoenix Force when she does come back, because it seems like the Phoenix Force has defined Jean, and not the other way around. When Jean had made her comeback back in the original X-Force, I felt that was the purest representation of Jean Grey. I want to see that incarnation of the Marvel Girl again.

[Manic]

I think Phoenix Force should be shared by Jean, Hope, Rachel, and Korvus. That way, nobody gets too powerful and they all get to use the cool raptor effect.

[Anubis]

But then Hope or Korvus will go nuts in the future and try to go on a killing spree to have all the powerz cuz that's how these writers think. Then you're right back where you started.

[Manic]

Oh, I'm already sure Hope will turn evil in the future.

Solicits for Uncanny X-Force and previous stories imply that Apocalypse might want to steal Hope's body for himself. Apocalypse usually needs four horsemen.

Oh look, Hope spawned 5 new mutants, and solicits show that only four will follow her.

[TheCorpulent1]

I think I'm gonna wind up reading Generation Hope. I'll probably hate myself for it, but it's Gillen and I've already dipped my toe back into the X-cesspool with X-Men...

[Tron Bonne]

No, Corp, fight it...:(

[Havok83]

Im going to read Generation Hope and Im going to love it

[runawayboulder]

Gillen's work on Thor was magic. I expect more of the same on X-Men.

[JewishHobbit]

I think I'm gonna wind up reading Generation Hope. I'll probably hate myself for it, but it's Gillen and I've already dipped my toe back into the X-cesspool with X-Men...

You're welcome :D

[TheCorpulent1]

:argh:

[Drz]

Wolverine #2 preview!!!! (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=6563&disp=table)

[Ipodman]

has it been revealed if this "X-Men" series is going to be running forever or for only the vampire arc

[JustABill]

After the vampire arc, the book will find itself a solid team and continue on with new stories.

[Ipodman]

Oh well... Im not a vampire fan but I like the vampire arc so far... (2 issues I have)

[Havok83]

I think its too much. Not only are they doing this for 6 issues in this book, but they have so many oneshots spinning out of it, mini series and Namor's book as a tie in. I cant wait till its over

[TheCorpulent1]

I like the vampire story, although I think it was oversimplified for the X-Men. I would've really loved to see Janus still be involved somehow so that it was more of a vampire civil war with the X-Men caught in the middle. Instead, Xarus just seems to arbitrarily be gunning for the X-Men for no particular reason I've yet been able to discern.

[JewishHobbit]

I get the impression that the particulars on that are forthcoming.

And Janus got involved during the Storm & Gambit mini. You get the idea that that was the beginnings of his involvement and that he'll return soon enough.

[TheCorpulent1]

Meh, I'm not reading most of the one-shots. If Janus is important to the actual story, he should be in X-Men itself. :o

[JewishHobbit]

I agree, though the Storm/Gambit oneshot and the first issue of Namor tie in fairly closely and were both pretty good. I'd rather them have taken those stories and turn them into X-Men #3 but whatever.

[Freddy13th]

Wow. . .

[Havok83]

I dont know what this is for but if its a preview of things to come, I for one am happy

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1286221627.jpg

[JewishHobbit]

It's from the upcoming Annual crossover called Escape from the Negative Zone I think (I just started a thread on it over in the Marvel Comics forums).

It's a three part crossover with the Namor and Steve Rogers annuals, along with Uncanny X-Men annual. the only known villain so far is Blastaar, though there's another bigger threat that supposedly still has a fan following but the X-Men haven't faced in 30 years.

[Havok83]

a crossover with Steve Rogers? That seems so random. Do you know when it starts?

[TheCorpulent1]

No more random than all the Iron Man and Osborn appearances before. He's got the big "de facto head of superheroes" job now, so expect him to turn up a lot.

Anyway, if Blastaar and Steve are involved, count me in. :up:

[squeekness]

Eh, I don't want to have to buy annuals for two other books I don't even read. I'll probably just skip the whole thing. :( The books are expensive enough as it is.

[Manic]

I dont know what this is for but if its a preview of things to come, I for one am happy

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1286221627.jpg

They're gonna have to kill him if they want any results. We already saw during "Unstoppable" that Slim is no one's b**** when it comes to torture.

[TheCorpulent1]

They're gonna have to kill him if they want any results. We already saw during "Unstoppable" that Slim is no one's b**** when it comes to torture.
That would be excellent. Then he could wind up in the afterlife, the X-Men could mount a big, heroic rescue, and Emma could stumble upon him ghost-boning Jean. :awesome:

[Drz]

I really enjoy the art in Wolverine. Such great action and Satan looks pretty darn awesome. :D I liked the Xorn cameo along other villains in hell. :) Also Ghost Rider! :awesome:

[Iron Man]

A fan asked if the X-titles are going to get back to a "family dynamic." Alonso: "We're not going to go back in a time machine, no." Remender said that Uncanny X-Force has a definite sense of a family dynamic. Alonso said he understands that dynamic, but they can't "force it."

That answer really grates on me - to me, it shows a real lack of understanding of the fundamentals of the X-Men. The family aspect has always been a huge part of the franchise and the team. Restoring it wouldn't be "going back in time", it would be putting something back that never should've been taken away.

[Havok83]

its sad that X-force, the darkest book, which focuses around killng is the X-book with th definite sense of a family dynamic.

[Iron Man]

At least Remender is handling it properly though - he says that he's going to make every life they take a big deal, as opposed to the old X-Force's approach of just cutting through anyone in their way.

[NightBeetle]

First Look - X-MEN #5 (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=39070)

http://i55.tinypic.com/ml05le.jpg

[JewishHobbit]

I'm assuming that's Emma but it makes me think more of Husk when she's in some metal form.

[Havok83]

Thats Emma. You can see her choker

[TheCorpulent1]

Ugh, Archangel. I was hoping I wouldn't have to see murderboy in this series.

[Havok83]

It makes sense considering he can kill vampires more efficiently and quicker than most of the other X-men. Shouldnt take much effort to decapitate them

[TheCorpulent1]

He can go make sense over in Uncanny X-Force. This is why I stopped reading X-Men comics. For every decent panel of Beast being awesome or the X-Men being cool, there are like 50 of these other little things that chip away at my overall enjoyment. :o

[Manic]

The last time I didn't roll my eyes at Warren was during the Lovelorn arc of Uncanny X-Men. It was the storyline where Hank & Warren first recruited the X-Club.

[TheCorpulent1]

Another wordless preview of X-Men #5 (a.k.a. "the issue everyone jobs to Wolverine") (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=6772&disp=table)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/thecorpulent1/prv6772_pg2.jpg

Iceman's getting blessed so his whole body will be holy water, isn't he? Whatever faults this series has aside, that's f***ing awesome. :D

[Anubis]

Yeah, you gotta admit, that is innovative as f**k.

[TheCorpulent1]

Certainly takes Iceman up from a minor annoyance to a major powerhouse in this situation. :up:

[Anubis]

Holy Water Ice Stakes to the chest!

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, double-whammy. :D

[Anubis]

You gone kill a Vampire, you make sure that mofo is dead.

[JewishHobbit]

Hah! I hadn't even considered that's what they were doing with Iceman there. I just thought maybe he was making peace before this huge battle.

I love it!

[Havok83]

Im glad they are finally doing something with him, but man did they have to bring back the awful trunks? He's one of my faves so it will be good seeing him in action

[JewishHobbit]

I didn't mind the trunks. I like them better than the speedo.

[Havok83]

I dont see why he needs to have any clothes outside of his iceform at all

[JewishHobbit]

Ice junk?

[Manic]

He used to be able to turn his clothes into ice, too. Has he just run out of Unstable Molecule shorts?

[javi1024]

and i loved the suit he had in the Nation X mini series. hopefully well be seeing that one again soon.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/wairata/dazz-iceman.jpg

[Havok83]

"Torment X-kids. Remind them that they will nver be as good as Original X-men" LOL...I loved that line

[runawayboulder]

That was pretty badass of Gischler to use Iceman like that. Now if he can only coat Colossus in pure silver......

[TheCorpulent1]

I loved Iceman's costume in Wolverine and the X-Men. It was all different blues when he was normal, but when he iced up, the ice made a kind of sheen over the costume and turned it all a cool, light blue. That effect was a pretty good idea for allowing Iceman to visually retain some kind of costume without losing the cool visual of him icing up.

[Havok83]

New Djurdevic poster:

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8091/1288705276.th.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/1288705276.jpg/)
Click to enlarge

It will be variants for these books:

DECEMBER
UNCANNY X-FORCE #3
WOLVERINE: THE BEST THERE IS #1
WOLVERINE #4
DAKEN: DARK WOLVERINE #4
X-23 #4

JANUARY
WOLVERINE: THE BEST THERE IS #2

[javi1024]

whos the blonde carrying the baby underneath the 80s X-Men cover?

[TheCorpulent1]

I can't believe anyone thought Logan wearing just a jacket over his nekkid man-chest was a good idea for a costume. :doh:

[Havok83]

whos the blonde carrying the baby underneath the 80s X-Men cover?
what baby? I see a blonde holding a fan. Not sure who that is though

I can't believe anyone thought Logan wearing just a jacket over his nekkid man-chest was a good idea for a costume. :doh:
His New X-men look was one of his best costumes. I dont ever recall him being bare chested with the jacket though. He always tended to have a wife beater under it

[javi1024]

what baby? I see a blonde holding a fan. Not sure who that is though
whoops :oldrazz: i cant see the full res picture. so at like 25% its looks like a bundled up baby.

[runawayboulder]

I think she might be Lindsay McCabe, Jessica Drew's ex-partner?

Maybe some other random Madripoor ho?

[JewishHobbit]

Wow, I typically like his cover deals but that one sucks. Some bits suck and the fact that it's just another Wolverine centric cover I'm bored.

[Havok83]

X-23 and Daken are glaring ommisions from this. That makes little sense to me for one bc these 2 are major figures in Wolverine's life and bc their books will be getting variants based on this

[TheCorpulent1]

His New X-men look was one of his best costumes. I dont ever recall him being bare chested with the jacket though. He always tended to have a wife beater under it
Cyclops was the only one who pulled off that look for me. Nightcrawler and Jean also didn't look too bad, but I prefer costumes with more color for them. Beast looked like an elderly aristocrat for no apparent reason, Wolverine looked like some redneck who just stumbled out of his trailer, Archangel looked like he was wearing a space suit but forgot the helmet, etc.

[JewishHobbit]

I agree. I hated that entire timeperiod for outfits. I liked it on Cyclops and I didn't mind it on Jean but that's as far as it went for me.

Well okay, I kinda liked Havoc's but I know I'm in the minority there.

[TheCorpulent1]

Which one was that, the all-black suit with the red straps around his shoulders?

[JewishHobbit]

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/uncanny-x-men/425-3.jpg

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, right. Not a terrible costume, actually. A bit top-heavy for my liking. Could've done without the football shoulder pads. But I tend to like Havok's more streamlined costumes, where it's just flat black with his white plasma effects over it.

[JewishHobbit]

My favorite Havoc costume was his original X-Factor one, the blue and yellow with the jacket. But I've liked most of his after that. I'm not much on his original black one with the mask deal, but most variants of it's been cool.

[Manic]

The New X-Men teaching uniform only worked on Jean whenever she didn't wear the coat. Beast had no business wearing an outfit that bulky. The coat worked so well for Cyclops, it looked good even when Cassaday drew it over the current dark blue/black retro costume.

Charles rocked the hell out of that 'fit.

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/1659/xavierbigcostume6.jpg

[TheCorpulent1]

He looks a bit ridiculous to me. I always think Chuck's 'costume' should be, at most, a suit with an X pin on the lapel or tie.

[JewishHobbit]

I agree. I thought that looked silly.... but I did like another one from that time period that I just remembered...

Xorn!

[Hellion]

The New X-Men teaching uniform only worked on Jean whenever she didn't wear the coat. Beast had no business wearing an outfit that bulky. The coat worked so well for Cyclops, it looked good even when Cassaday drew it over the current dark blue/black retro costume.

Charles rocked the hell out of that 'fit.

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/1659/xavierbigcostume6.jpg


Chuck, Cyke, Logan, Jean, and Xorn all rocked it..............Beast not so much........

......also liked Emma's white booty shorts and barely there top of the New X-Men run....

[JewishHobbit]

God I couldn't stand Emma's lack of outfit. It was so rediculous it was embaressing.

[Havok83]

Cyclops was the only one who pulled off that look for me. Nightcrawler and Jean also didn't look too bad, but I prefer costumes with more color for them. Beast looked like an elderly aristocrat for no apparent reason, Wolverine looked like some redneck who just stumbled out of his trailer, Archangel looked like he was wearing a space suit but forgot the helmet, etc.
I loved them and thought they look great

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9275/xxm19.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9623/image17z.jpg

I agree. I hated that entire timeperiod for outfits. I liked it on Cyclops and I didn't mind it on Jean but that's as far as it went for me.

Well okay, I kinda liked Havoc's but I know I'm in the minority there.
That wasnt exactly the same style. Alex never was outfitted with the New X-men costume

[Havok83]

The New X-Men teaching uniform only worked on Jean whenever she didn't wear the coat. Beast had no business wearing an outfit that bulky. The coat worked so well for Cyclops, it looked good even when Cassaday drew it over the current dark blue/black retro costume.



I actually thoguht Jean looked better with the jacket. Beast also didnt look so bad when drawn by Larroca

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1714/jeannx.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2908/xtremexmen01801fc.jpg

[JewishHobbit]

Jean really did look good there. Man I miss her. X-Men went downhill the moment she died and they tried to make Emma the new Jean. I've not enjoyed it since.

[TheCorpulent1]

They never tried to make Emma the new Jean. I think that was kind of the point.

[JewishHobbit]

Sorry, I mean how they basically put her in Jean's spot as a bit of a co-leader of the team, focus woman, and Cyclops's romantic partner.

And them doing this, and her being nothing like Jean, is what killed the feeling of the book for me. I don't think I've much liked the X-Men since. Morrison's run was fantastic save for the Emma/Scott stuff, but I also think his run killed the X-Men more than M-Day ever could. He destroyed the atmosphere and family feeling of the book. M-Day just took away story potential.

[Iron Man]

I'd agree with that. Nicely summed up :up:

[Havok83]

Sorry, I mean how they basically put her in Jean's spot as a bit of a co-leader of the team, focus woman, and Cyclops's romantic partner.

And them doing this, and her being nothing like Jean, is what killed the feeling of the book for me. I don't think I've much liked the X-Men since. Morrison's run was fantastic save for the Emma/Scott stuff, but I also think his run killed the X-Men more than M-Day ever could. He destroyed the atmosphere and family feeling of the book. M-Day just took away story potential.
IA. She was fit into many of Jean's old roles. School headmistress. Primary telepath. Scott's love interest.

[JewishHobbit]

Right, and then that ended up creating rifts in the team with the more likable characters, such as Beast and Kitty Pryde, and that's created a big damper on the whole loving atmosphere thing.

Before Morrison they were a family, after Morrison they became something like a stepfamily and they've devolved into a military unit. And Marvel's stated just a week or two ago that there's no intent to go back to the family atmosphere as they "can't work backwords". Yeah, tell that to Spider-Man.

[TheCorpulent1]

Mephisto needs to come along and eat Cyclops and Emma's love for each other. :o

[JewishHobbit]

I'm not sure he'd want it. It's tainted and unpure.

[Havok83]

I actually wouldnt mind if someone came and hit a reboot button with the X-men. Go back to before M-day started to ruin things. I am not a fan of what House of M did to the X-line

[JewishHobbit]

I wish they'd go back and undo Morrison's ending. M-Day didn't hurt the X-Men as much as people say. It's pretty much been Jean's death and the Emma replacement. Everything went downhill from there.

[Hellion]

I wish Emma was still the White Queen of the Hellfire club......her one role, well also enjoyed Gen X...but I loved her as a villain.

Morrisun's run was really the last thing I read............I enjoyed it, but it wasn't the X I grew up with...

[roach]

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Peter and MJ selling their marriage to the devil to save Aunt May....
Scott and Emma kissing on Jeans grave the day of the funeral....
Black Panther and Storm marriage.....

hire our top notch retconologists and let them work wonders for you....."

[Havok83]

I wish they'd go back and undo Morrison's ending. M-Day didn't hurt the X-Men as much as people say. It's pretty much been Jean's death and the Emma replacement. Everything went downhill from there.
I think its both. The X-men went downhill after Jean died but M-Day pretty much led to this new status quo where the X-men are an army fighting bc theres so few of them left.

[TheCorpulent1]

There's not, though. There are still mutants f***ing everywhere, and everyone who lost their powers in M-Day regained them at some point (besides Rictor, but he doesn't need 'em). I'd love to have this whole tainted, horrible era of the X-Men as murderous, jackbooted a**holes wiped away and never referenced again. :o

[Havok83]

From several millions to roughly around 200, 90% of which is concentrated on Utopia. Id hardly say they are everywhere. The only ones that got their powers back are Xavier, Magneto, Polaris and Quicksilver. There's still tons out there who haven't. Second Coming provided hope (no pun intended) but following M-Day, mutants were a dying species and that sense of urgency was warranted

[TheCorpulent1]

Sure, but there are still 50 million X-Men comics and the cast list is overflowing on all of them. M-Day effectively just cut out the background fodder mutants we don't see anyway. If they really wanted to make the mutant population feel smaller, they should've taken the powers of some really high-profile characters and left them that way. Cyclops, Emma, Beast, Storm--names people know. As it is, the actual makup of X-Men comics is virtually unchanged, except now everyone's a raging douchebag and they're not even remotely enjoyable.

[runawayboulder]

Hopefully Gillen will change that soon. Remender and Gischler are well on their way.

[TheCorpulent1]

I picked up Generation Hope #1 100% for Gillen. I don't really know anything else about it, but I'll give basically anything Gillen writes a shot at this point.

Gischler's X-Men is okay and brings back some approximation of the family feel, but it's still not really working for me. I think I may drop it soon, but I'm holding out for another few issues.

[Havok83]

Sure, but there are still 50 million X-Men comics and the cast list is overflowing on all of them. M-Day effectively just cut out the background fodder mutants we don't see anyway. If they really wanted to make the mutant population feel smaller, they should've taken the powers of some really high-profile characters and left them that way. Cyclops, Emma, Beast, Storm--names people know. As it is, the actual makup of X-Men comics is virtually unchanged, except now everyone's a raging douchebag and they're not even remotely enjoyable.
and 90% of those X-men books feature the same cast. Thats been one of the biggest complaints about the books in the last year. Aside from X-factor, all the rest have casts which overlap way too much. Its funny bc there was alot more diverse among the rosters in the books prior to them drastically cutting down the number of mutants.

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I guess I don't notice because I'm only really interested in a handful of X-Men anyway.

[Manic]

In fairness to Emma, she was already headmistress of a branch of Xavier's school once before. With Charles sorta stepping down, Jean gone, and Scott focusing on the teams, Emma was the logical choice for running the school. She even ran the school during Morrison's issues where Jean & Charles were elsewhere.

And really, any love interest you give Scott is always going to feel like a replacement for Jean. If he were with Betsy, we'd be talking about how both Betsy and Emma are being used as Jean's replacements in different aspects.

[Raiden]

Jean really did look good there. Man I miss her. X-Men went downhill the moment she died and they tried to make Emma the new Jean. I've not enjoyed it since.

Me too! I really miss Jean, and I hope Marvel will bring her back soon. Quite frankly, I'm tired of the whole "phoenix rises from the ashes" cliche they kept doing with Jean...enough is enough!

[Havok83]

In fairness to Emma, she was already headmistress of a branch of Xavier's school once before. With Charles sorta stepping down, Jean gone, and Scott focusing on the teams, Emma was the logical choice for running the school. She even ran the school during Morrison's issues where Jean & Charles were elsewhere.

And really, any love interest you give Scott is always going to feel like a replacement for Jean. If he were with Betsy, we'd be talking about how both Betsy and Emma are being used as Jean's replacements in different aspects.
how about Scott just be single. He's never really been single for any significant amount of time ever since he first got together with Jean. The most is maybe 3-4 issues before he moves onto the next girl and in most cases he already has one waiting on the side when his relationship is about to end

[Manic]

I have no problem with Scott being single, actually. Let Emma go back to Iceman or something. I mean, she really can't be single. Being in a relationship with an X-man is the main thing keeping her good.

[TheCorpulent1]

Give her to Namor as a consolation prize. She's as close as he'll ever get to banging the Invisible Woman. :up: