X-Men [Archive] - Page 5 - The SuperHeroHype Forums

Havok83

11-04-2010, 03:58 PM

Why would some of the X-Men want to leave the only city that openly accepts and loves them just so they can have their old base in upstate New York back?

"Man, all this praise and celebrity status that people like the Avengers and Fantastic Four experience everyday is just great, but I miss the old mansion in Westchester where protesters used to stand outside our gates and the students had a clear view of the graveyard full of their teachers' and classmates' bodies next to the basketball court. Being able to walk down the streets of San Francisco without hiding who we are is fine and all, but I'd rather have bricks thrown at me whenever I visited NYC again!"
They get plenty of hate in SF. In the very first arc that they moved there, Pixie got beat up by anti-mutant thugs and they've had to face quite a bit of resentment and protest from them being in the city. Its part of the reason why they moved to Utopia off the main lands, bc of the hate and discrimination they were getting on the mainland. SF isnt any better for them than NY. Only difference was that the mayor was willing to work with them whereas they didnt have the same political connection in Westchester

TheCorpulent1

11-04-2010, 04:00 PM

Cyclops would still have...
-Emma (loyal girlfriend)
-Iceman (mediator for the Brotherhood and apparently PR man)
-Archangel (no problem with the Black Ops stuff)
-Psylocke (no problem with the Black Ops stuff)
-Wolverine (no problem with the Black Ops stuff)
-Dazzler (steady gigs)
-Northstar (loves SF, hangs out with Dazzler)
-Karma (never got more action than living in SF)
-All of the teenagers (happier in SF than they ever were in Westchester)

But hey, Beast can have Storm on part-time, maybe Rogue, Colossus, and Shadowcat in a tube. Yay, New York.

What Hank should do is come back to San Francisco and keep Scotty in check.
Keep him in check how?

"Hey, Scott, you shouldn't let Wolverine kill people."
"F*** off, Hank."
"... okay."

Manic

11-04-2010, 04:13 PM

They get plenty of hate in SF. In the very first arc that they moved there, Pixie got beat up by anti-mutant thugs and they've had to face quite a bit of resentment and protest from them being in the city. Its part of the reason why they moved to Utopia off the main lands, bc of the hate and discrimination they were getting on the mainland. SF isnt any better for them than NY. Only difference was that the mayor was willing to work with them whereas they didnt have the same political connection in Westchester

As soon as they moved to SF, they had a party thrown for them. The police call on them for help. When Trask's group marched through San Francisco, there were humans as well as mutants in the crowd who opposed the bill to limit mutant reproduction. Mutants with visible mutations walk through the streets of SF without incident.

The people who beat up Pixie were a gang orchestrated by Maddie Pryor's ghost for no given reason. Any misgivings they had against mutants were only made violent through Empath's influence.

The only reason they moved to Utopia was to stage a final confrontation against Norman Osborn.

The X-Men are a lot better off in San Francisco than they ever were in Westchester.

Havok83

11-04-2010, 06:00 PM

Osborn was the final breaking point but things were already progressing bad. The Utopia arc opened up with the anti-mutant protest which resulted in more fighting and injuries on both sides of the issues. In his speech declaring Utopia, their new home he said, that it would be set that rock would be set up as sacred ground where no mutant would be harmed, hunted, prejudiced against or face legislation against. Part of tht was bc of the anti-mutant movement that was brewing over the several issues prior to the opening oneshot

JewishHobbit

11-04-2010, 07:25 PM

Actually, if there was a break I think some of the students would prefer to go back to New York. I think tops of those would be Rockslide, Anole, and Dust. To Serve and Protect has Rockslide and Anole being heroes and Dust is a noble person who I doubt is too fond of the new direction.

Helios

11-04-2010, 11:29 PM

I would love to see Jean Grey in the greater Marvel Universe.

She's not Scott's love interest anymore and doesn't need to have characterization solely defined by her past relationship with Cyclops. I felt that Jean always had the makings of a teacher. When she comes back, I can definitely see her reject what Scott has been doing and revamp Xavier's Dream in her own way.

Plus, she should definitely be an Avenger. The Avengers are sorely lacking in psychics and Jean's experience as a former member of X-Men/X-Factor would prove to be very useful. Jean as an Avenger might just be what the mutant community needs. A visible public mutant whose a member of one of the premier superhero teams.

Think of the mutants on the Avengers roster. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch faced considerable scrutiny in their early days due to being former Brotherhood members. While Beast was widely popular during his original stint, his blue-furred appearance and lack of public speaking didn't assuage human views on mutants. Justice and Firestar fell under the radar since they were former New Warriors upgraded into full-fledged Avengers years back. The subject of their mutant heritage wasn't brought to the public's attention.

I believe Jean might prove more successful. She's an attractive and courageous young woman. Superficially, she "looks" like any other human woman and admittedly, normal people will be less afraid of Jean. They'd be less likely to consider her as the "other" due to her lack of any identifiable traits as a mutant. And let's not forget that Jean's sister, Sara, had spoken up for mutant rights in previous issues. Jean Grey could be the new "face" of mutant Avengers as well as mutant superheroes.

The same goes for Polaris and Havok. Once they return from space, I imagine Alex would have some misgivings about what happened while he, Lorna, and Rachel were away. I'm not sure if Alex would readily agree to what Scott's been doing and could very well go on his own path. If they remain as X-Men, Alex and Loran will revert back to the background and never get their chance to develop their own characters. They should join the Avengers as well. I mean, Lorna's siblings were the first mutant Avengers. I'm surprised Marvel hasn't followed up on Lorna's ties with Pietro and Wanda as Avengers . Havok and Polaris would be a welcome addition along with Jean and Beast.

Rachel is something of a dark horse. I'm not exactly sure what she would do and where she would go. Having her on the X-Men would mean there's 2 red-haired Phoenix-linked mutants having ties with the Summers family.

roach

11-05-2010, 07:53 AM

TheCorpulent1

11-05-2010, 09:07 AM

I would be happy if no other mutants ever joined the Avengers, personally. The Avengers and the X-Men each have their own casts and I like it that way. Too much overlap and they effectively become the same team, just with slightly different goals. Also the reason I don't really like seeing Fantastic Four or Defenders members join the Avengers. I don't want the Avengers to become Marvel's JLU.

Havok83

11-05-2010, 09:13 AM

With the inclusion of Spiderman and Wolverine, I think it already kinda is. I thought thats what the original intention was when New Avengers was formed, but then their threats didnt really support that.

runawayboulder

11-05-2010, 09:15 AM

not Avengers I'd rather see another team of X-men who don't agree with Scott's methods. Xavier, who finally grows a pair; Beast; Jean now completely devoid of the Phoenix. Being Phoenix limits Jean to dying and being reborn.

Xavier may not agree with Scott but remember he's always been a lying scumbag himself. Xavier lying to Scott about Vulcan pushed Cyke down this path just as hard as Scott being possessed by Apocalypse did.

Beast, Jean and Colossus are about as noble as they come in the X-Men.

Havok83

11-05-2010, 09:18 AM

Kurt too at least when was alive.

TheCorpulent1

11-05-2010, 09:28 AM

I'd hesitate to call Colossus one of the "most noble" in light of his time with the Acolytes.

With the inclusion of Spiderman and Wolverine, I think it already kinda is. I thought thats what the original intention was when New Avengers was formed, but then their threats didnt really support that.
I just write that off as a cheap money grab, which is exactly what it was.

JewishHobbit

11-05-2010, 09:47 AM

I'd hesitate to call Colossus one of the "most noble" in light of his time with the Acolytes.

And when he snapped Riptide's neck during the Mutant Massacre for the simple reasoning of he was just ticked off.

Yeah, the most noble were Beast and Nightcrawler. I'd say Storm, Kitty, and Jean were right after them.

TheCorpulent1

11-05-2010, 09:51 AM

Kitty's up there in some ways, but she's also a ninja and spy thanks to Wolverine and Pete Wisdom, respectively. Granted, I haven't had much exposure to her in those roles, so I don't know if she was like a good, non-ruthless ninja/spy or what.

runawayboulder

11-05-2010, 10:01 AM

I'd hesitate to call Colossus one of the "most noble" in light of his time with the Acolytes.

Cut the guy some slack, his sister and last remaining family member had just died. Plus Kitty was banging a filthy englishman.

TheCorpulent1

11-05-2010, 10:09 AM

It's understandable why he did it, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a misguided screw-up.

Havok83

11-05-2010, 10:09 AM

I'd hesitate to call Colossus one of the "most noble" in light of his time with the Acolytes.

.
I dont think that takes away from anything. He didnt do anything bad or evil while with them. He was still very noble while he was with that group and opposed many of their methods and teachings. He tried to be the moral center of them and tried to get them to see things differently. I think UXM 315 is the best example of this

And when he snapped Riptide's neck during the Mutant Massacre for the simple reasoning of he was just ticked off.

It wasnt that simple. The Maurarders had just massacred a bunch of Morlocks. Riptide had gravely injured Nightcrawler and Kitty was injured by Harpoon. He snapped. Riptide went after him and was attempting to kill him like he had done to the other mutants before. Wasnt the best move considering the emotional state Colossus was in at the moment

runawayboulder

11-05-2010, 10:22 AM

I dont think that takes away from anything. He didnt do anything bad or evil while with them. He was still very noble while he was with that group and opposed many of their methods and teachings. He tried to be the moral center of them and tried to get them to see things differently. I think UXM 315 is the best example of this

It wasnt that simple. The Maurarders had just massacred a bunch of Morlocks. Riptide had gravely injured Nightcrawler and Kitty was injured by Harpoon. He snapped. Riptide went after him and was attempting to kill him like he had done to the other mutants before. Wasnt the best move considering the emotional state Colossus was in at the moment

Agreed on both. Besides, Riptide got better.:cwink:

TheCorpulent1

11-05-2010, 10:26 AM

Only because Sinister keeps copies. Heaven forbid the guy with the strength of a tank "snap" on anyone whose boss isn't a genetic engineer. :o

Havok83

11-05-2010, 10:36 AM

When someone kills a Maurarder at this point, doesnt even count as murder? They always come back and theres tons of clones out there. I consider clones to be real people in the books becoming their own indivudals seperate from their genetic template but with the Maurarders they are more like drones. The Scalphunter you read today is not the same one you read 20 or even 5 years go.

JewishHobbit

11-05-2010, 10:36 AM

I It wasnt that simple. The Maurarders had just massacred a bunch of Morlocks. Riptide had gravely injured Nightcrawler and Kitty was injured by Harpoon. He snapped. Riptide went after him and was attempting to kill him like he had done to the other mutants before. Wasnt the best move considering the emotional state Colossus was in at the moment

So like I said... he was ticked off :)

Havok83

11-05-2010, 10:40 AM

So like I said... he was ticked off :)
haha, but you didnt go into why he was. He was kinda justifiably enraged at that point. He momentarily went crazy and didnt exit that battle with Riptide unscathed as he was nearly killed himself and spent the next couple of weeks trapped in his armored form in the infirmary

JewishHobbit

11-05-2010, 10:43 AM

Havok83

11-05-2010, 10:46 AM

We should make a game of it. Find as many Marauder deaths as possible!
Zombie modes are like all the rage in videogames these days. They should have Maurarder zombies that you can kill in X-men Destiny

NightBeetle

11-11-2010, 11:20 AM

X-MEN #5 Preview
(http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=39825)
http://i52.tinypic.com/snf8xz.jpg

Manic

11-11-2010, 11:33 AM

You gotta admit: If you're gonna fight a bunch of vampires, there's no better team than Colossus, Emma, Armor, Bling!, Rockslide, Dust, Mercury, Magma, and Husk. They simply can't be bitten.

Iron Man

11-11-2010, 11:38 AM

Yeah. Throw in Iceman like that and the vamps don't stand a chance.

Havok83

11-11-2010, 11:49 AM

They should just get Illyana to open a disk underneath them and teleport them into the sun and call it a day

squeekness

11-11-2010, 11:50 AM

Where's my Gambit, dangit! :p

TheCorpulent1

11-11-2010, 11:54 AM

Yeah. Throw in Iceman like that and the vamps don't stand a chance.
I think they should rename him "Frozen Holy Water Man" for this arc. :up:

Helios

11-11-2010, 09:13 PM

They could surely use Sunfire. His solar-based powers could fry vampire hordes with ease. I wonder why Marvel doesn't use him effectively as a character?

Manic

11-11-2010, 09:53 PM

Helios

11-11-2010, 10:14 PM

Sunfire is...

1. Not in his right mind, after the stuff with Apocalypse.
2. Missing after Messiah Complex
3. Against joining the X-Men again
4. Kind of racist. Not important, but I just wanted to put that out there.

1. Blood of Apocalypse was awful. I really hated that storyline. Not to mention having his legs get chopped off and his powers taken from him in that Rogue mini. Whose bright idea was that?
2. Another misuse of Sunfire. He had no business being a Marauder.
3. I never understood why Marvel dropped Sunfire as a character. What's the point in having a diverse team of new X-members when you drop the only Asian and kill off the Native American in the beginning?
4. Sunfire's more xenophobic than actually racist. He's very distrustful towards people.

Marvel is pretty bad at writing male Asian superheroes. I think only Jimmy Woo and Amadeus Cho are their only decent depictions.

Marvel should utilize him better since he's Japan's premier superhero. He's a powerhouse of thermonuclear proportions (literally!) and I'm surprised they haven't found a role for him all these years. I also remember the time when Sunfire joined X-Corporation Mumbai and spent time with Alpha Flight. Not to mention his brief tenure on Big Hero Six. Is he doomed to be a guest character without any development? Never being a team player, but playing solo and without any major storylines or character growth?

javi1024

11-12-2010, 09:35 AM

1. Blood of Apocalypse was awful. I really hated that storyline. Not to mention having his legs get chopped off and his powers taken from him in that Rogue mini. Whose bright idea was that?
2. Another misuse of Sunfire. He had no business being a Marauder.
3. I never understood why Marvel dropped Sunfire as a character. What's the point in having a diverse team of new X-members when you drop the only Asian and kill off the Native American in the beginning?
4. Sunfire's more xenophobic than actually racist. He's very distrustful towards people.
to be fair, they were still left with a Canadian, a Kenyan, a Russian, a German, and a Scot after Sunfire and Thunderbird left so it was still pretty diverse. and on top of that over the years the X-Men have included Vietnamese, Brazilians, Indians, Chinese, Cherokee, Italian, Afghani, Israeli, Irish, British, aliens, etc.

Helios

11-12-2010, 12:33 PM

to be fair, they were still left with a Canadian, a Kenyan, a Russian, a German, and a Scot after Sunfire and Thunderbird left so it was still pretty diverse. and on top of that over the years the X-Men have included Vietnamese, Brazilians, Indians, Chinese, Cherokee, Italian, Afghani, Israeli, Irish, British, aliens, etc.

The X-books have been improving their diversity over the decades, but I felt it was pointless to add-in a token Asian and Native American just to fulfill racial quotas on the All-New All-Different X-Men and then ditch them. Storm was the only non-Caucasian member that remained on the team; the rest were of European ancestry.

Recently, the X-books have 2 new Japanese members; Surge and Armor. Marvel can develop Surge and Armor into X-Men, but not Sunfire? Then, again, Asian females are generally given favorable treatment compared to their male counterparts. In fact, they recently killed off Silver Samurai, the only other male Japanese character that has a significant presence on Marvel Earth. Whether Daken can fulfill a suitable role in 616, post-Dark Reign, is left to how writers handle him. Though I note that Daken is only half-Japanese, the 2 full-blooded long-standing Japanese male mutants in Marvel, Sunfire and Silver Samurai, have gotten the shaft.

BTW, Banshee was Irish not Scot. I felt that he was the most likable X-Man out of the new group. It's a shame that he had to leave the team after his vocal chords were damaged from fighting Magnum Moses.

BoredGuy

11-12-2010, 12:35 PM

Only the X-Men could pull off a whole squad of non-flesh characters.

and that's why I love them.:woot:

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 12:44 PM

Really? 'Cause Fred Van Lente did it in one of the Marvel Zombies series with primarily Avengers-ish characters already. ;)

BoredGuy

11-12-2010, 12:54 PM

Well I'm talkin active members here mofo!! provin me wrong, dammit, how dare you?! jk jk..

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 12:58 PM

Don't hate 'cause the Avengers got some sweet robo-members. :oldrazz:

BoredGuy

11-12-2010, 01:02 PM

well only the X-men have a full team of Stabby people!!!

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 01:06 PM

That much is true. Mostly because other teams aren't as cool with the stabby stuff because they have, y'know, moral ideals and understand what the word "hero" means and stuff. ;)

squeekness

11-12-2010, 01:34 PM

Most of the characters I like best are stabby people, lol. :p

Helios

11-12-2010, 01:44 PM

The X-Men are heroes, but in a less-conventional way. Unlike the Avengers and FF, the X-Men contend with bigotry and hostility from the world due to their mutant heritage. Their primary objectives are to fend off against threats to mutants as well as threats from mutants. So they're hated by the very same people they try to save.

Generally, they don't contend with villains such as Red Skull, Kang, Thanos, The Masters of Evil, etc. And you rarely (if ever) see the Avengers and FF deal with X-villains such as Apocalypse, the Acolytes, the Marauders, etc. This is because Marvel has distanced the X-Men from the rest of Marvel and vice-versa.

Also, the X-Men have the notoriety of being less favored than the Avengers and FF due to their membership primarily being mutants. It's partially because the X-Men lack public appeal and relations. Before moving to San Francisco, when did they stick around for an interview or reach out to mainstream humanity? Civilians have long imagined the X-Men to be a shadowy cell of mutants with deviant intentions. It didn't help their reputation that during the 80's, a former terrorist like Magneto took over as headmaster of Xavier's school and the New Mutants as well as being ally to the X-Men.

Last but not least, the X-Men don't have the luxury of upholding themselves as public superheroes that the Avengers and FF do. Subterfuge, killing, and any other means necessary are what's accepted nowadays under Scott's leadership. Whether he was wrong to form X-Force again and other controversial measures, Scott DID unite most of what remained of mutantkind and sustained them from various attacks.

The people of San Francisco accepted and even appreciated the X-Men as heroes when they set-up shop. However, Osborn forced their hand to seek refuge in Utopia and unite mutantkind under Scott's banner during Dark Reign. It's the sort of ever-changing world that the X-Men have to contend with so that mutantkind isn't oppressed and obliterated.

Manic

11-12-2010, 01:48 PM

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 02:05 PM

You know, Spider-Man was an outcast for almost his entire existence until New Avengers, yet I don't recall seeing him ever start assassinating people...

Havok83

11-12-2010, 02:07 PM

I absolutely hate the concept of X-Force as the X-Men's assassin squad, but I can't hate Cyclops anymore because he realized it was a total dick move on his part. He disbanded the team after Second Coming.

Now I can continue to hate Wolverine for all-new, all-different reasons!
he disbanded the secret team of assasins bc it was no longer a secret. Had the sh-t not hit the fan, Im sure he would have kept it going

The X-books have been improving their diversity over the decades, but I felt it was pointless to add-in a token Asian and Native American just to fulfill racial quotas on the All-New All-Different X-Men and then ditch them. Storm was the only non-Caucasian member that remained on the team; the rest were of European ancestry.

Recently, the X-books have 2 new Japanese members; Surge and Armor. Marvel can develop Surge and Armor into X-Men, but not Sunfire? Then, again, Asian females are generally given favorable treatment compared to their male counterparts. In fact, they recently killed off Silver Samurai, the only other male Japanese character that has a significant presence on Marvel Earth. Whether Daken can fulfill a suitable role in 616, post-Dark Reign, is left to how writers handle him. Though I note that Daken is only half-Japanese, the 2 full-blooded long-standing Japanese male mutants in Marvel, Sunfire and Silver Samurai, have gotten the shaft.

BTW, Banshee was Irish not Scot. I felt that he was the most likable X-Man out of the new group. It's a shame that he had to leave the team after his vocal chords were damaged from fighting Magnum Moses.

I like Sunfire but it wouldnt have made sense for him to stay bc he HATED the X-men and hated white people. The guy was very arrogant and had little use for them. Things have changed now and losing his legs and being manipulated by Apocalypse and later Sinister may have humbled him to the point where I can see him joining now, but back in the 70s, he was pretty much the anti-X-men.

chamber-music

11-12-2010, 02:07 PM

Sunfire is...

1. Not in his right mind, after the stuff with Apocalypse
2. Missing after Messiah Complex
3. Against joining the X-Men again
4. Kind of racist. Not important, but I just wanted to put that out there.

Simply put Sunfire is not a team player.

Thunderbird and Dani Moonstar were pretty much portaryed as some sort of stereotypical native americans in the early days walking around saying how they distrust the white man ect.

Storm also used to walk around naked too

chamber-music

11-12-2010, 02:09 PM

You know, Spider-Man was an outcast for almost his entire existence until New Avengers, yet I don't recall seeing him ever start assassinating people...

Spidey works best as a solo hero imo :whatever:

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 02:14 PM

I agree, although that wasn't really my point.

Manic

11-12-2010, 02:20 PM

Minorities in the X-Men are almost always borderline offensive.

Dani Moonstar: "I'm CHEYENNE! And you can't stop me from expressing how CHEYENNE I am! Do you feel it, Professor? Do you feel my CHEYENNE RAGE?! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to stand out by being the only student in the X-Men to ever decorate their training uniform with cultural artifacts!"
---
Sunfire: "You fight without honor! You are a fool, foolish American white man! I am proud, Japanese, and my surname is remarkably similar to every other Japanese character in the X-Men comics!"
---
Jubilee: "Oh my god, I'm like totally a Beverley Hills girl! I'm also Chinese, which you can tell because MY POWERS ARE FIREWORKS!"
---
Dust: "I'm an Afghani Sunni-Muslim who wears an outfit that random switches between a burqa and an abaya, because artists think those are the same things. Also, I TURN INTO SAND!"
---
Sunspot: "I'm a black man from Brazil whose power is to turn blacker. Also, because all of South America is the same to most writers, I'll occasionally speak in Spanish instead of my native Portuguese."
---
M: "All anyone can tell you for sure about me is that I'm sort of northern African. Or possible European. Or both."
---
Storm: "Even though I was born in Harlem and raised by my parents until my pre-teens, then lived in a predominantly Muslim country where I no doubt would've heard of the concept of hijab or modest dressing through my early teens, I have no barriers or tact when it comes to walking around butt naked with only my clearly non-African textured hair covering my nipples."

Iron Man

11-12-2010, 02:27 PM

You know, Spider-Man was an outcast for almost his entire existence until New Avengers, yet I don't recall seeing him ever start assassinating people...

I hate the fact that Cyclops sanctioned an assassination squad too, but the X-Men and Spider-Man are two very different kettles of fish. Way beyond comparison when it comes to X-Force.

chamber-music

11-12-2010, 02:41 PM

I wonder if Claremonts ever been to Kenya because they do actually wear clothes.

Boom Boom was a 80s madonna valley girl type, jubilee a 90s mallrat so who's this decades poster girl Emo Laura wolverine clone?

Manic

11-12-2010, 02:47 PM

Laura is definitely the emo archetype of the 2000's. Otherwise, we're left with "teacher's pet" Armor and "Basically Duffy with wings" Pixie.

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 03:47 PM

Who's "Duffy"?

Manic

11-12-2010, 03:52 PM

Duffy is a Welsh singer. Very tiny in stature with a high pitched (though fairly strong) voice. She had a couple of hits here in the States: "Mercy" and "Rain On Your Parade."

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 03:54 PM

Never heard of her. I thought you just misspelled "Buffy," to be honest. But Pixie doesn't seem that similar to Buffy, so I was confused. :o

Manic

11-12-2010, 03:58 PM

Oh, definitely not Buffy. I was just comparing her to another tiny Welshwoman.

TheCorpulent1

11-12-2010, 04:02 PM

I could listen to Welsh people talk all day. Their accent is awesome. :up:

Havok83

11-12-2010, 04:11 PM

Duffy is a Welsh singer. Very tiny in stature with a high pitched (though fairly strong) voice. She had a couple of hits here in the States: "Mercy" and "Rain On Your Parade."
I like Duffy. Cant stand Pixie

Manic

11-12-2010, 04:15 PM

I go kinda back and forth with Pixie. Sometimes she's annoying, but sometimes she's pretty cool and good for a joke. I think she should sidekick for Dazzler more often instead of being the inexplicable leader of the Young X-Girls.

El Bastardo

11-12-2010, 09:27 PM

I find the level of discussion to be absolutely scintillating. Might I have a pair of rose-colored lenses while we're at it, Manic?

Zing!

Helios

11-13-2010, 01:39 AM

I like Sunfire but it wouldnt have made sense for him to stay bc he HATED the X-men and hated white people. The guy was very arrogant and had little use for them. Things have changed now and losing his legs and being manipulated by Apocalypse and later Sinister may have humbled him to the point where I can see him joining now, but back in the 70s, he was pretty much the anti-X-men.
I tend to blame that on the lack of good writers for Sunfire. Kinda hard to make Sunfire into an appealing character when he's consistently portrayed as a knee-jerk samurai wannabe that's uptight about his honor. I also note that Sunfire seems to have a greater presence on Marvel Earth than one would expect from him. He's not simply an X-related character, but had run-ins with the Avengers, West Coast Avengers, and Alpha Flight. He should be more of an international superhero than mutant-centric or Japan-only. In fact, have we ever see him do anything productive or heroic? Much less, have a storyline based on him instead of the typical team ensemble that he's usually featured in?

Simply put Sunfire is not a team player.
The X-Men have enlisted former villains into their ranks in past issues. Magneto and Rogue being their best examples. I can't see why Marvel wouldn't have Sunfire join in a bid for redemption and find a purpose in his life after what he's been through. Or at least have him be one of their staunch allies when he quit as an X-Man. It makes no sense to not give Sunfire a role simply because he prefers to work solo.

Why not have him be the brooding loner that eventually begins to trust and work alongside other heroes? At least that would be a step in the right direction than the 40 year limbo he's been in.

Jubilee: "Oh my god, I'm like totally a Beverley Hills girl! I'm also Chinese, which you can tell because MY POWERS ARE FIREWORKS!"
I never made that connection before with Jubilee and her power set. It never occurred to me that her plasma sparks gave an indication to her Chinese ancestry. Huh, go figure.

chamber-music

11-13-2010, 07:49 AM

The Welsh language is just so weird. Microwave oven in Welsh is 'ffwrn meicrodon' but they call it popty ping.

plus crazy welshman Rhys Ifans is the villain in the new spidey movie

squeekness

11-13-2010, 10:19 AM

Duffy is a Welsh singer. Very tiny in stature with a high pitched (though fairly strong) voice. She had a couple of hits here in the States: "Mercy" and "Rain On Your Parade."I like Mercy, actually. I saw her do it live on TV and had to go get the sing right after. :)

Manic

11-13-2010, 10:26 AM

I thought Duffy was okay at first, but she won me over when I heard "Syrup and Honey." Some of her slower songs are pretty damn soulful.

Also, while I don't mind the Welsh accent, I think the Welsh language is the weirdest thing on Earth. It's all F's, D's, and W's with Y being an insanely common vowel.

chamber-music

11-14-2010, 10:54 AM

Yeah some wacky welsh translations include

cwrw = beer
Mis Chwefror = February
bwyd = food
melyn = yellow
ysgol = school
da boch = goodbye
diolch = thank you

Havok83

11-14-2010, 11:58 AM

Here are the X-title sales courtesy of CBR

01 Uncanny X-Force #1..............................................95 ,639 (X-Force #28 61,680)
11 X-Men #4................................................ ............63,772 (#3 66,549; decrease 4.17%)
12 Wolverine #2................................................ ........63,210 (#1 104,414; decrease 39.46%)
13 Uncanny X-Men #529.............................................6 2,256 (#528 62,415; decrease 0.25%)
24 X-Men Legacy #241.............................................. .48,133 (#240 50,984; decrease 5.59%)
41 Daken: Dark Wolverine #2........................................38,660 (#1 48,819; decrease 20.81%)
52 X-23 #2................................................ ...............35,280 (#1 48,481; decrease 27.23%)
53 Deadpool #28............................................... .........34,828 (#27 36,404; decrease 4.33%)
70 Deadpool MAX #1................................................ ...29,176
73 X-Factor #210.............................................. .........27,548 (#209 29,626; decrease 7.01%)
75 New Mutants #18............................................... ....27,027 (#17 31,684; decrease 14.70%)
83 X-Men: Curse of the Mutants--X-Men vs. Vampires #2..23,362 (#1 25,654; decrease 8.93%)
101 Deadpool Corps #7................................................ 19,644 (#6 21,888; decrease 10.25%)
104 Deadpool Team-Up #888........................................18,394 (#889 19,917; decrease 7.65%)
113 Deadpool Pulp #2................................................ ..16,782 (#1 20,965; decrease 19.95%)
144 X-Men Forever 2 #9...............................................1 2,260 (#8 12,753; decrease 3.87%)
145 X-Men Forever 2 #10.............................................12 ,064 (decrease 1.60%)
148 New Mutants Forever #3.........................................11,910 (#2 13,778; decrease 13.56%)
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=346541

These numbers are rather dissapointing and its a shame the books arent even cracking the top 10. UXF was so high bc of its debut but its sure to drop next month. I remembr the days when the X-men were consistently in the top 3 with several other related books rounding out the top 10

roach

11-14-2010, 12:08 PM

its because the books are crap...the devil needs to come in and offer a life changing decision to this line

squeekness

11-14-2010, 12:49 PM

I'm not digging the Wolverine relaunch much, not like the last time they did it. :( Uncanny X-Force was good though. I am disappointed to see Daken's book slip that much seeing as how it's written and drawn just as well as Dark Wolverine and Dark Avengers which I really enjoyed. Hope that book doesn't get cancelled... :( Not to mention X23's book which for me only got better since they've added Gambit in. Figures. Soon as I like a book they get rid of it. I am like the kiss of death. :waa:

Havok83

11-14-2010, 01:34 PM

X-23 and Daken, while low are doing much better than half the Xbooks. I dont think theres any fear of them being cancelled anytime soon.

I found this and just for a bit of comparison, here were the rankings 10 years ago

01 Uncanny X-Men #388.............................................. .. 110,874
02 X-Men #108.............................................. .. ............ 109,190
04 Wolverine #158.............................................. .. ........ 86,708
12 X-Men The Search For Cyclops #2................................ 58,327
13 Wolverine 2000.............................................. .......... . 55,079
18 X-Men Forever #1................................................ ...... 51,743
28 X-Force #110.............................................. .. ...........44,209
28 Cable #87............................................... ................ 44,165
34 Mutant X #27............................................... ........ ... 41,655
36 Generation X #71.............................................. ....... 40,744
47 X-Men Magik #2............................................... ........ 37,568
54 X-Man #71………………………………………………....................… 36,715
60 Gambit #24............................................... ............... 35,351
70 Bishop The Last X-Man#16.......................................... 31,851
71 X-Men The Hidden Years #14..................................... ..31,473

Its sad that the worst selling book back then does better than half the books today

squeekness

11-14-2010, 01:42 PM

I miss Gambit's ongoing. :( He needs another one.

chamber-music

11-15-2010, 05:00 AM

Overall X-books were better ten years ago I would say. The modern title sales list is mostly Wolverines (X-23 & Daken) and Deadpool titles.

X-Men really needs to go back to individual team titles so they can focus on groups of x-Men instead this over crowded mess they got at the moment.

Helios

11-15-2010, 04:26 PM

X-Men really needs to go back to individual team titles so they can focus on groups of x-Men instead this over crowded mess they got at the moment.
Does anyone else miss the Gold and Blue teams? I really liked the fact that Marvel split the X-Men into 2 groups and books. Gave you a different perspective with Scott leading his team while Storm lead hers.

Manic

11-15-2010, 04:28 PM

I miss the squad system too (though they ceased to be called Blue and Gold years ago), but the creative teams like being able to use whichever characters they want. We're gonna have to get used to everyone but Mike Carey using Scott and Emma in every issue.

runawayboulder

11-15-2010, 06:39 PM

The books do need to focus on different teams. I can understand that UXM covers everyone because it's the flagship X-book (and the only Marvel title that's never been rebooted). But X-Men should have it's own dedicated team and Legacy kinda does now but it's more like Rogue's own Marvel Team Up.

That's why I came up with the west coast/east coast teams a while back headed by Cyclops and Beast. I miss the days of Xtreme X-Men doing totally different things than what was going on in UXM and New X-Men.

Havok83

11-15-2010, 06:50 PM

well the lack of defined rosters helps make the books feel highly redundant. Thye dont feel as if they have much indviduality or a reason to exist. X-men is supposed to focus on the Xmen being integrated with the MU and teaming up with their heroes but why does there need to be a seperate book for tis to happen? Why cant that conept be integrated into the titles we already have? The Avengers and FF showed up at the end of FF to lend a hand. Why cant this happen from time to time as needed in the regular titles? It seems pointless to create a book specifically to showcase that.

And does Rogue really need her own book where she looks after random X-kids every arc? Isnt that kinda what she's also doing now in Generation Hope?

AXM has a clear lineup but it comes out so infrequently that its no even worth mentioning. Considering the bulk of its cast is already featured in the other books, it doesnt stand out or feel necesary either.

Uncanny X-force, New Mutants and X-factor are the only ones that seem to have much of a clear focus and mission which doesnt have as much redundant overlaps with the other books. I think every title that has the word X-men in it needs some reevaluating bc its like Marvel is pushing out books, just to push out books and looking at the sales numbers, its not working out to well for them

runawayboulder

11-15-2010, 06:55 PM

Generation Hope is just a 5 issue mini so really it's does Rogue need that book when she's got Legacy. The books need their own squads with their own mission statement so folks like Nightcrawler (RIP), Collosus and Iceman aren't left out in the cold.

Astonishing XM is in it's own category that it's not restricted to the current continuity. I just hope Marvel doesn't pay Ellis and Jimenez a lot to do that book because it is so insignificant. A real waste of Jimenez's talents to boot.

Havok83

11-15-2010, 07:02 PM

where did you hear Gen Hope is a mini? Last I read it was an ongoing

Manic

11-15-2010, 07:04 PM

And does Rogue really need her own book where she looks after random X-kids every arc? Isnt that kinda what she's also doing now in Generation Hope?

I used to be upset that Rogue had her own title, but I grew to accept it as Carey used more of the students. Legacy sort of makes up for Young X-Men's cancellation in that way.

Also, it should be the other way around. Why do we need Generation Hope when we've already got X-Men Legacy? The characters in Gen Hope should just be integrated into Legacy.

Generation Hope is just a 5 issue mini

I thought it was solicited as an ongoing with its first arc being a few issues or so.

TheCorpulent1

11-15-2010, 07:06 PM

Aw, if it's been minified, that makes two series Marvel has pulled out from under Gillen's feet now. First SWORD was canceled before its first issue physically made it to the stores, now Generation Hope has been reality-retconned into a mini-series? :csad:

Manic

11-15-2010, 07:07 PM

It's been Jubileed*

*See: the Jubilee ongoing series that suddenly became a miniseries after its first arc sold poorly.

TheCorpulent1

11-15-2010, 07:17 PM

Yeah, but no one cares about Jubilee. Pick better references to name stuff after. :o

runawayboulder

11-15-2010, 07:18 PM

I thought it was a mini from the get go.......:huh:

runawayboulder

11-15-2010, 07:19 PM

Nope, I just looked it up. My error, it's an ongoing.:doh::doh::doh:

Manic

11-15-2010, 07:22 PM

Jubilee's was the first ongoing I ever saw Marvel retroactively turn into a mini.

TheCorpulent1

11-15-2010, 07:28 PM

But. Jubilee. Sucks. :cmad:

Manic

11-15-2010, 07:34 PM

But. Jubilee. Sucks. :cmad:

Bite your tongue, sir!

TheCorpulent1

11-15-2010, 07:36 PM

I have, recently.

Hurts. :csad:

Havok83

11-15-2010, 07:37 PM

I thought it was a mini from the get go.......:huh:
Marvel minis have a limited-series logo on the cover. The first issue of Generation Hope doesnt. The solicits didnt mention it as 1 (of 5)

TheCorpulent1

11-15-2010, 07:39 PM

They should have an ongoing logo too. It should be the words, "Please keep giving us money as long as we publish this!" printed in the corner of the cover.

Havok83

11-16-2010, 12:44 PM

Looks like one of the characters that went bye-bye in Second Coming isnt dead. Carey mentioned on his FB page that Ariel is alive and will be showing up in the future. I be she's ben vacationing in Tahiti or somewhere. I fully expect her to just randomly open up one of her doors and stroll in a if nothing happened...lol

NightBeetle

11-16-2010, 12:48 PM

http://i52.tinypic.com/2hh2h01.jpg

X-MEN #8
Written by VICTOR GISCHLER
Penciled by CHRIS BACHALO
Cover by TERRY DODSON
“TO SERVE AND PROTECT,” PART 2
After braving the lizard-creature infested sewers beneath Manhattan, Spider-Man reveals to the X-Men just exactly who they are up against. But this doesn't explain the rash of disappearances of outcast teenagers. Why have they vanished, and what do these kids have in common? The X-Men must use their best detective skills to discover the secret, but nothing prepares them–or Spider-Man–for the surprise villain who is pulling all the strings.
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

TheCorpulent1

11-16-2010, 01:21 PM

Meh, no vampires, back in New York, and now Spider-Man? Bye bye, X-Men.

Colossal Spoons

11-16-2010, 03:21 PM

Ha, I was finally gonna pick it up b/c the vampires were gone but this arc doesn't sound interesting either :(

Edit: Bachalo AND Dodson? Hahaha :down:

TheCorpulent1

11-16-2010, 04:05 PM

I was thinking of dropping it anyway given that Generation Hope caught my interest and I felt weird about reading two X-Men series simultaneously. Knowing what's coming in X-Men just makes it really, really easy.

Colossal Spoons

11-16-2010, 04:30 PM

I want nothing to do with Gen Hope. They keep making/adding more and more new mutants to the X-franchise when we have perfectly good ones in limbo.

Havok83

11-16-2010, 04:45 PM

Well a new interview with Gillen was just posted, 20 minutes ago and Gen Hope is mentioned as an ongoing so that talk of it possibly being a mini looks to be false

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29442

runawayboulder

11-16-2010, 05:59 PM

The info for the second X-Men arc isn't really exciting me at all.

chamber-music

11-17-2010, 06:46 AM

I want nothing to do with Gen Hope. They keep making/adding more and more new mutants to the X-franchise when we have perfectly good ones in limbo.

I so F'ing agree. How about they focus on the hundreds of mutants fans actually care about.

squeekness

11-17-2010, 12:03 PM

I'm just hoping that Gambit's involvement continues as promised. :( This would be one boring book without him. What would make this any different than Uncanny? It's got most of the same people in it.

TheCorpulent1

11-17-2010, 01:26 PM

I so F'ing agree. How about they focus on the hundreds of mutants fans actually care about.
Doesn't matter either way to me since I don't actually care about any of the established mutants either. There's Beast, Nightcrawler, sometimes Iceman, sometimes Cable, and then a big sea of faces I couldn't give a s*** about if I tried.

Anubis

11-17-2010, 01:28 PM

What about Maddrox? Oh right, he's not a mutant anymore.

TheCorpulent1

11-17-2010, 01:29 PM

Oh, wait, him too. He's still a mutant. I like most of X-Factor's group. So add them in with Beast and them. But the rest of the mutants, I couldn't give a s*** about.

Anubis

11-17-2010, 01:31 PM

Not even Colossus or whats Kitty Pride?

TheCorpulent1

11-17-2010, 01:32 PM

Colossus I'm iffy on. He's okay but he's kind of an a**hole. Shadowcat bores me.

Colossal Spoons

11-17-2010, 02:03 PM

Petey's not an a-hole :(

I forgot about Maddrox technically not being a Homo Sapiens Superior, but a "killcrop".

TheCorpulent1

11-17-2010, 02:06 PM

I don't pay attention to anything where they split hairs about who's a mutant and who isn't. According to Jeph Loeb, Wolverine's not technically a mutant, either. But that's stupid, so I ignore it.

Colossal Spoons

11-17-2010, 02:15 PM

I love genetics; especially comic book genetics, but it gets eyeroll-worthy after a while.

Havok83

11-17-2010, 02:16 PM

Madrox is still a mutant. Killcrop is just a term to describe a special class of mutants who are born with their mutant gene activated as opposed to later in life, but its still a mutant nonetheless

NightBeetle

12-03-2010, 01:48 PM

Marvel Unleashes Viral "Age of X" Promo (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29695)

http://i55.tinypic.com/e0o4zt.jpg

Marvel Comics (http://marvel.com/) has launched a new viral marketing campaign for "Age of X" in this week's new comics. The following image was found at a URL hidden in a QR Code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code) and shows Beast being attacked by anti-mutant protestors.

When approached for comment, Marvel (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29695#) told CBR, "This is only the beginning of a unique look at the world of Age of X."

TheCorpulent1

12-03-2010, 01:52 PM

I've been seeing the ads all over lately. If it's just another alternate future, I'm pretty much over those with the X-Men. They've had enough at this point. If it's where the actual comics are going and Beast is going to die as part of it, I'm going to ignore it and just start waiting for Beast to come back someday. Either way, I'm not interested.

Manic

12-03-2010, 03:04 PM

Ditto that. From what I've heard, it's an alternate timeline like Age of Apocalypse only I guess it'll be filled with hate crimes instead of being ruled by a tyrant.

Not only am I skipping this, but I hope it fails. We don't need anymore alternate timelines for the X-Men. Those only create new characters with confusing backstories.

runawayboulder

12-03-2010, 03:53 PM

Alternate time-lines is so 80's and 90's and 2000's.....:o

Havok83

12-03-2010, 03:55 PM

Well Im excited. This looks to be the most promising thing in the Xbooks in the near future

TheCorpulent1

12-03-2010, 03:55 PM

Which says more about the quality of the X-books lately than it does about how good this looks...

Ditto that. From what I've heard, it's an alternate timeline like Age of Apocalypse only I guess it'll be filled with hate crimes instead of being ruled by a tyrant.

Not only am I skipping this, but I hope it fails. We don't need anymore alternate timelines for the X-Men. Those only create new characters with confusing backstories.
Yeah, I can't wait to see which refugees we're saddled with from this one after it's over. :o

Havok83

12-03-2010, 04:06 PM

Nah I think it looks good. Carey is a more than capable writer and definetly one of the better ones in the franchise. Clay Mann's art also looks really good. and the concept seems interesting enough. I beleive its only coming about bc there is currently no writer for NM and Marvel gave Carey 3 extra issues which allowed him to tell this story. Carey says its not a self contained tale and it looks like it may have further implications once its done. I also read that there will be an Avengers tie in, but not sure to what extent they will be utilized

TheCorpulent1

12-03-2010, 04:08 PM

Carey is a good writer, but I disagree on the concept. It seems like yet another alternate future where the stakes have been raised and the X-Men have gotten even harder and more militaristic, just like they do in virtually every alternate reality save Days of Future Past (and that was probably only because they'd all been killed off before they could militarize). We've seen this scenario play out a ton of times already; this is just the newest variant on the theme.

squeekness

12-03-2010, 06:13 PM

Maybe there's not many new stories to tell with the regular guys. I know I have been bored with the Xs lately (mainly because they keep using the same four guys). Perhaps this is a way to get something fresh out there.

TheCorpulent1

12-03-2010, 07:07 PM

I've given up on the X-Men lately because they've been militaristic dickwads. This Age of X thing looks like it's only gonna make them even more militaristic, so that's another reason I'm not interested in it.

NightBeetle

12-10-2010, 11:42 AM

ADVANCE PREVIEW: "X-Men" #7 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29814)

http://i55.tinypic.com/288beyq.jpg

Manic

12-10-2010, 11:51 AM

Oh god, it's Chris Bachalo. I'm already dreading the action scenes.

squeekness

12-10-2010, 12:09 PM

I used to really like him but lately I have a hard time making out what's going on there with his panels. :(

TheCorpulent1

12-10-2010, 12:50 PM

I like Bachalo, but I'm dropping the comic altogether.

roach

12-10-2010, 12:54 PM

yay X-men stopping bank robberies...just exactly what they should be doing

TheCorpulent1

12-10-2010, 01:01 PM

I'm cool with that, actually. Just not while Cyclops is still treating them as his personal army and Archangel is happily murdering people with X-Force and stuff. The team is still too tainted to just sweep it all under the rug and go back to "normal" superheroics without a word.

javi1024

12-10-2010, 03:38 PM

I used to really like him but lately I have a hard time making out what's going on there with his panels. :(
that was always his problem besides his wonky proportions and making all his men look like the green goblin.

Brainiac 8

12-10-2010, 04:01 PM

Bachalo's best days was when he did Generation X.

I miss that book. :(

runawayboulder

12-10-2010, 04:58 PM

Bachalo is hit and miss for me. I've seen worse from him than those panels.

Manic

12-10-2010, 05:43 PM

I don't hate the way he draws characters as much as I hate his inability to tell a story, layout an action sequence, arrange a panel so its contents can be made out clearly, or portray emotions through facial expressions.

JewishHobbit

12-10-2010, 07:52 PM

Bachalo's best days was when he did Generation X.

I miss that book. :(

Agreed. Gen X was my second favorite series of all time. I miss it and a lot of its characters a lot.

Tron Bonne

12-14-2010, 09:32 AM

I don't really care about the X-Men stuff all that much anymore, but this caught my eye this mourning:

http://i53.tinypic.com/a57qt0.jpg

I know there's been a pretty mixed reaction to the militarism bend of the X-Men in recent years, wondering if they are going to seriously address this, or if it'll just be like someone criticizing Scott and then deciding it's okay because the X-Men are 'At war!'

Havok83

12-14-2010, 09:37 AM

Cyclops already became the new Magneto. There wasnt much difference between Scott and his X-force and Mags and his Brotherhood. Similiar methods, similar goals. Only difference is Magneto didnt do any of it under the guise of being a hero.

storyteller

12-14-2010, 12:23 PM

Bah, Magneto is a man who uses the mutant issue as an excuse to amass more power. Scott actually cares and isn't naive to think that all their enemies can just be put in jail. X-force was and still is needed. Though I still find it funny that mutants just don't go live with Asgardians and other super powered beings. In the grand scheme of things, they really aren't that special. In the grand scheme of things, people love Captain America(genetically altered) but hate Mutants(Born genetically altered)?

Though I would like to see Scott actually fight again as opposed to standing around barking orders. Actually I would like to see the X-men be less about survival right now.

javi1024

12-14-2010, 12:26 PM

Though I still find it funny that mutants just don't go live with Asgardians and other super powered beings.

because the whole Xavier dream was for mutants and humans to coexist in society (you can argue how Utopia fits into that later). but every time mutants have moved into their own society (Avalon, Genosha, etc.) it has been a trigger for human paranoia and hostility.

im happy to see that this is finally being addressed, and im excited to see where this leads.

TheCorpulent1

12-14-2010, 12:29 PM

Haha, "Scott actually cares." I don't think Scott cares about anything other than making sure mutants aren't totally wiped out anymore. If he has to sacrifice half of them to keep the other half alive, he'd grit his teeth and do it. Scott and Magneto are both egomaniacs who consider themselves the only hope for mutantkind's survival.

Havok83

12-14-2010, 12:45 PM

Magneto ddint "use" the mutant issue as an excuse to get power. He was genuinely invested in mutant rights and their well being and that goes back to his family's persecution in the Holocaust and the death of his daughter years later at the hand of mutant haters. Magneto formed his Brotherhood and did the stuff he did for the mutant race. He was about preserving their place on this Earth by any means necesary. He had good intentions but went about them in horrible ways. Scott? Since MC, he's been about preserving the mutant race as well by any means neceasry and if that meant killing those who stood in the way of that by comrpomising ther aces's future then so be it. We've probably seen Scott's X-force kill more under him than we've seen Magneto's Brotherhood under him. One thing Magneto didnt do was get children involved in his war, but Scott had teenagers on his squad and had no issue having them play a role in the killings. Scott also has good intentions but he has been going about achieving them in horrible ways. Scott and Mags are two sides of the same coin

Though I still find it funny that mutants just don't go live with Asgardians and other super powered beings. In the grand scheme of things, they really aren't that special.
that wouldnt be a solution for anything. Mutants are humans. Why would they just pick up and go live in some far off place like Asgard. Thats like telling an American born black person to go to Africa if they dont want to deal with racism. Really not all that practical or realistic. Besides arent Asgardians elitists anyway? From my understanding them dont like non-Asgardians around

TheCorpulent1

12-14-2010, 12:58 PM

The Asgardians are gods. They don't really like having mortals around, for the most part. Doesn't matter whether the mortals are mutants, normal humans, superpowered humans, or what.

What bugs me is why the non-mutant heroes don't do more to advocate for the X-Men. Steve Rogers runs the superhuman forces of the entire USA and is pretty much universally loved now. His voice would carry a lot of weight if he told people to quit messing with mutants. Of course, it's a bit ironic that now that Steve's in the position to deputize the X-Men and offer them government acceptance and fair treatment like any other superheroes, Scott's made them into such morally ambiguous jerks that Steve's cautious about them for entirely non-racial reasons.

chamber-music

12-14-2010, 01:57 PM

What is sort of funny is Scott was lecturing Xavier not to long ago on being a lying manipulative jerk who got people to die for his mission but Scotts become a far bigger jerk than Xavier since taking charge and has probabley had more X-Men die under his watch in a couple years than Xavier had in decades.

TheCorpulent1

12-14-2010, 02:02 PM

Helios

12-14-2010, 02:21 PM

What bugs me is why the non-mutant heroes don't do more to advocate for the X-Men. Steve Rogers runs the superhuman forces of the entire USA and is pretty much universally loved now. His voice would carry a lot of weight if he told people to quit messing with mutants. Of course, it's a bit ironic that now that Steve's in the position to deputize the X-Men and offer them government acceptance and fair treatment like any other superheroes, Scott's made them into such morally ambiguous jerks that Steve's cautious about them for entirely non-racial reasons.

Having non-mutant superheroes support the X-Men undermines the idea that mutants are alone and hated by the world. The reason why the other Marvel books don't address mutant affairs that much is because the X-books deal with it. The rest of 616 is about the Fantastic Four, Avengers, Spider-Man, Thunderbolts, Daredevil, Doctor Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. Logically, the non-mutant superheroes would help out their X-colleagues, but Marvel separates the X-books from the rest of 616 and vice-versa. This is the idea behind a shared universe. It's why the X-Men and FF weren't involved in Kang Dynasty or Operation: Galactic Storm while the Avengers and FF didn't deal with Magneto in Fatal Attractions or assist Storm's group during The Fall of the Mutants in Dallas. The X-Men handle their problems while the other heroes have their own affairs.

Even if Steve Rogers goes on national television in support for mutant rights or lobbies for them in Congress, it'll fall on deaf ears. It won't change people's perceptions and fears of mutants. The reason why the Avengers and Fantastic Four are respected and adored by the public is because many of them were originally normal humans who received their powers via science or accidentally.

Mutants, on the other hand, are born with their powers though they usually don't manifest them until adolesence. Non-mutant heroes like Spider-Man, Captain America, etc. are a one in a million occurrence. It's entirely different from a sub-group of humanity that have the genetic potential for physical enhancements and energy wielding. Not to mention, there are mutants who proclaim they're Homo Superior, thus inferring that regular humans will be obsolete and displaced by mutantkind. This doesn't sit well with the average human being.

Also, the Avengers have an established history of trust from the public though it wasn't always the case. The Avengers were seen with suspicion in its early days. Having Captain America join the Avengers made them gain support, but it later relapsed when Cap's "Kooky Quartet" was formed. Citizens were outraged that 3 former criminals were admitted into the Avengers, 2 of them were involved with Magneto's Brotherhood albeit reluctantly. It took many years of self-less heroism and reaching out that made the Avengers widely beloved by the average citizen of Marvel USA.

The X-Men, however, was seen as a shadowy group of devious mutants. In the beginning, the X-Men were public superheroes that gained some trust, but it quickly went away due to Brotherhood members impersonating X-Men, increasing paranoia towards mutants, and especially having Magneto become part of the X-Men during the 80's. That especially damaged any good will that the X-Men could've earned amongst the public.

Also, the Avengers upheld themselves with accountability. The Avengers work in accordance to the law and with UN sanction. The X-Men do not have this luxury and they have repeatedly worked under the radar and done questionable actions that would further cause hostility and disbelief if the public ever found out. Nor would they be comfortable wth working under the same government that implemented Project Wideawake and Operation: Zero Tolerance.

chamber-music

12-14-2010, 02:22 PM

I couldn't imagine Marvel letting Beast leading the X-Men. Marvel will probabley have Wolverine lead the X-Men (or one of his clones/offspring) unfortunatley :csad:

Colossal Spoons

12-14-2010, 02:38 PM

Rogue or Emma would take over

Havok83

12-14-2010, 02:43 PM

Storm should be leading the X-men

Colossal Spoons

12-14-2010, 03:32 PM

Hahaha, she's barely an X-Man these days

Iron Man

12-14-2010, 04:06 PM

Storm should be leading the X-men

Agreed.

TheCorpulent1

12-14-2010, 04:09 PM

Colossus should lead. Give the guy something to do other than throw Wolverine at things for once.

Colossal Spoons

12-14-2010, 04:16 PM

All he cares about is getting Kitty tangible again

javi1024

12-14-2010, 04:21 PM

Peter's not a leader. not to dis the guy, but he really is just the muscle who paints in his spare time. i can see Storm, possibly Beast if he decides to leave the Avengers. but i think Xavier will come back as being head of the X-Men.

TheCorpulent1

12-14-2010, 04:29 PM

Great, from one morally ambiguous douche to another.

Specter313

12-14-2010, 05:53 PM

All he cares about is getting Kitty tangible again

And we all know why. ;)

Colossal Spoons

12-14-2010, 07:22 PM

Emma-less conversation :o

After Havok & Co get back from space in X-Force soon, I'd loooove to see him with a new sense of leadership and no self-doubt. Seeing him replace Scott would make my day.

JewishHobbit

12-14-2010, 08:19 PM

Just give the gig to Iceman and have him surprise everyone. I liked it when they were going in that direction during Operation Zero Tolerance but then I think the editors chose to not let the writing do that. Oh well.

chamber-music

12-15-2010, 08:45 AM

Emma-less conversation :o

After Havok & Co get back from space in X-Force soon, I'd loooove to see him with a new sense of leadership and no self-doubt. Seeing him replace Scott would make my day.
With the X-staff I think no matter what Havok does he will always be in Cyclops shadow. their idea of shaking things up is killing a few characters :o

Colossal Spoons

12-15-2010, 09:17 AM

And they can start with the entire cast of Generation Hope. Barely enough books to contain the ~198 mutants we know about so they go and make more. I get that Hope exists to "make" new mutants, but they don't need to become actual characters, let alone get a whole book.

BrianWilly

12-15-2010, 09:36 AM

If this is really going to hash out Scott's change in attitude and ultimately depose him as leader of the X-Men, I hope Beast takes over and brings the X-Men back to what they used to be all about. Survival shouldn't be their ultimate goal. That's just the day-to-day struggle. The goal should be to set an example for all of mutantkind, just like Xavier's dream says, rather than militarizing and killing everyone who crosses them or might pose a threat. The X-Men have lost their identity under Scott because he's gotten such tunnel vision about merely surviving.Well he only has --

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/fifthfiend/emoticons/csimiamiyeah.gif

-- the one eye.

...too lame? Not lame enough?

Anyway, I really liked This article (http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.com/2010/11/x-civics-101-13-things-i-learned-from-x_22.html), in regards to the X-Men.

TheCorpulent1

12-15-2010, 09:47 AM

iLoL'd. :)

Manic

12-15-2010, 12:34 PM

I hated the idea of X-Force, but Cyclops really was the best leader the X-Men could've had. Despite whatever stupid crap he did, he managed to out-maneuver Norman Osborn, find a city where mutants are accepted, and get a medal from the President for saving the people of San Francisco. The problem now is that Scotty is still playing Generalissimo while the X-Men and mutantkind are sorta in a time of peace.

TheCorpulent1

12-15-2010, 12:41 PM

Anyway, I really liked This article (http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.com/2010/11/x-civics-101-13-things-i-learned-from-x_22.html), in regards to the X-Men.
Wow, that article's really good. It took me this long to actually read it in-between doing work, but I'm glad I did. It summed up nicely the reasons I'm not reading X-Men comics anymore and gave me some more food for thought. The indictment of Beast for leaving but not actually doing anything about the X-Men's fall into moral bankruptcy just makes me wish we could've seen that idea someone around here had of Hank opening an east coast school that actually adheres to heroic principles and ideals even more. Maybe Nightcrawler could've gone with him and not gotten killed. :o

squeekness

12-15-2010, 12:43 PM

^^ I would have loved to see Hank do that. :D He's one of my top faves.

Iron Man

12-15-2010, 01:52 PM

I'd love to see Hank, Storm, and Jean (yes, Jean - it's time to bring her back and leave her back) reopen the school. It'd be cool to see the writers play up a tense rivalry between the new Institute and Utopia.

TheCorpulent1

12-15-2010, 02:09 PM

It would be awesome if Cyclops sat on Utopia b****ing and moaning about how naive the others are being while his own people die all around him in the war he helped escalate and their compatriots slowly start to trickle over to the more peaceful school.

runawayboulder

12-15-2010, 02:24 PM

Helios

12-15-2010, 02:44 PM

Wow, that article's really good. It took me this long to actually read it in-between doing work, but I'm glad I did. It summed up nicely the reasons I'm not reading X-Men comics anymore and gave me some more food for thought. The indictment of Beast for leaving but not actually doing anything about the X-Men's fall into moral bankruptcy just makes me wish we could've seen that idea someone around here had of Hank opening an east coast school that actually adheres to heroic principles and ideals even more. Maybe Nightcrawler could've gone with him and not gotten killed. :o
I really love how self-righteous Cyclops is when he sneers, "Maybe Captain America, Iron Man and Thor will come arrest us. That'd be funny, actually. I'd go to jail with a smile on my face. Because I'd do it all again."

I really hate how the X-writers love to trash on the non-mutant superheroes who've the X-Men have a long history of collaboration and mutual respect like the Avengers and Fantastic Four. You don't see the Avengers and Fantastic Four writers do this to the X-Men, why not return the courtesy?

I think Hank as an Avenger again is for the better. The Secret Avengers do covert ops, but are nothing like X-Force. At least as an Avenger, Hank can do good for the world with people who know what they can do and not do, regardless of their abilities.

After Havok & Co get back from space in X-Force soon, I'd loooove to see him with a new sense of leadership and no self-doubt. Seeing him replace Scott would make my day.
Unfortunately, Alex is always under the shadow of Scott. Alex, Lorna, and Rachel should jump ship and join the Avengers like Hank did. They'd do better for mutant rights as Avengers than fall in line with Scott's orders.

It wouldn't hurt for Scott to at least think about his brother and alternate timeline daughter. He's had a lot on his mind, but given the fact that Cable just died, why not be concerned about Rachel and Alex?

I'd love to see Hank, Storm, and Jean (yes, Jean - it's time to bring her back and leave her back) reopen the school. It'd be cool to see the writers play up a tense rivalry between the new Institute and Utopia.
Hopefully, Marvel will utilize this idea. I'd love to see Hank, Storm, Jean, and even Bobby go back to the East Coast and restart the Institute. It makes sense for senior X-Men to disagree with Scott and go their own path.

It would be awesome if Cyclops sat on Utopia b****ing and moaning about how naive the others are being while his own people die all around him in the war he helped escalate and their compatriots slowly start to trickle over to the more peaceful school.
Somehow, I doubt that'll happen. The consensus amongst the X-books is that Cyclops is in the right, regardless if the audience or other characters care to disagree with his views and actions.

TheCorpulent1

12-15-2010, 03:52 PM

Ahem, that was actually me...:whatever:
Well, you're someone and you're quite often around here, aren't you? :oldrazz:

Somehow, I doubt that'll happen. The consensus amongst the X-books is that Cyclops is in the right, regardless if the audience or other characters care to disagree with his views and actions.
I know. The saddest part is, as the article points out, they probably never even intended for Cyclops and the X-Men to literally become the same as their enemies, but they arrived at this point all the same through various creative decisions and now they're basically stuck with a bunch of tainted terrorists in heroes' clothing.

fifthfiend

12-15-2010, 04:20 PM

an example for all of mutantkind

All, what, ten of them? Eleven?

Havok83

12-15-2010, 04:28 PM

Emma-less conversation :o

After Havok & Co get back from space in X-Force soon, I'd loooove to see him with a new sense of leadership and no self-doubt. Seeing him replace Scott would make my day.
Havok and Polaris arent coming to X-force after all. Remender just did an interview today and flat out said, they wont be appearing

I'll just put a pin in this one right now. I love the characters, but I don't think that you should hold your breath to see Havok or Polaris in the pages of "X-Force" anytime soon.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29897

Looks like they will continue to remain in forever limbo

Colossal Spoons

12-15-2010, 04:37 PM

Well why the **** would they be on the cover!? This blows :down:

Manic

12-15-2010, 04:44 PM

The rumor probably only started because of this poster by Marko Djurdjevic:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6093/xmenposterfinalsmall.jpg

Djurdjevic was clearly just drawing a big ass collage of as many X-Men as possible with a few of their enemies. Someone must've cropped the image on the far left where most of X-Force is, making it look like an X-Force cover featuring Lorna & Alex.

vindrow

12-15-2010, 08:02 PM

One of the first things they need to do is bring back Nightcrawler...killing him was teh worst thing they did:cmad:

Havok83

12-15-2010, 08:25 PM

Its not like Nightcrawler was doing anything before he died. I thought they made a good choice getting rid of him in SC. It was a powerful death bc of his longterm history but at the same time a very safe one as no one was using him. If he were alive, he'd most likely still be just a blue blur in the backgronud of UXM. He'll be back eventually but I dont think it was a bad choice getting rid of him when they did.

fifthfiend

12-15-2010, 08:40 PM

Colossal Spoons

12-15-2010, 09:00 PM

But isn't that how the majority of X-deaths work? It's usually a character that maybe 10 readers will miss but important enough to move the plot along. I sometimes forget that Cable and Nightcrawler even died.

Manic

12-16-2010, 12:46 PM

Nightcrawler was languishing in obscurity before he was killed off. If you're going to kill a fan-favorite character, Marvel, grow some balls and kill someone the writers are actively using.

TheCorpulent1

12-16-2010, 12:58 PM

Even better, forget about killing characters and actually use your fan-favorites instead of letting them languish in obscurity. :o

Iron Man

12-16-2010, 01:13 PM

Even better, forget about killing characters and actually use your fan-favorites instead of letting them languish in obscurity. :o

But then how would they show the readers that their crossovers really matter and are going to change everything forever?

:cwink:

Manic

12-16-2010, 01:18 PM

Because it'd be wrong if I didn't, I'm going to blame Kyle & Yost for Nightcrawler's death. What they lack in genuine drama, they make up for in bloodbaths in their comics.

Colossal Spoons

12-16-2010, 04:25 PM

I'll never forget the school bus :argh:

Manic

12-16-2010, 04:53 PM

Colossal Spoons

12-16-2010, 05:51 PM

And we get Greymalkin, Ink and Cipher as consolation prizes :dry:

Colossal Spoons

12-16-2010, 05:51 PM

2x post

Manic

12-16-2010, 05:54 PM

Hey, Greymalkin and Cipher had potential!

**** Ink, though.

vindrow

12-16-2010, 07:35 PM

Should have killed off Cyclops.

Havok83

12-16-2010, 07:42 PM

IA and was hoping SC would end with his death, having made the final sacrifice for what he beleived in, but I knew they wouldnt have the guts to go there

NightBeetle

12-16-2010, 11:10 PM

X-Men #6 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7276&disp=table)

http://i51.tinypic.com/2zth8ut.jpg

chamber-music

12-17-2010, 05:08 AM

The school bus full of 40 kids
One student getting killed by Purifiers
One student getting his head smashed in by a damaged Nimrod
One student getting a sniper shot to the head

And they did it all in their first 8 issues.

and yet three Cuckoo still remain. I hate clones the way people around here hate time travel or alternate timelines. :o

Havok83

12-17-2010, 05:18 AM

and yet three Cuckoo still remain. I hate clones the way people around here hate time travel or alternate timelines. :o
well 2 of them got killed off since they were all introduced

chamber-music

12-17-2010, 05:22 AM

well 2 of them got killed off since they were all introduced

but there is still three to many :cmad::cwink:

Manic

12-17-2010, 12:27 PM

and yet three Cuckoo still remain. I hate clones the way people around here hate time travel or alternate timelines. :o

I prefer to ignore their canon origins, and instead choose think of them as a set of quintuplets.

fifthfiend

12-17-2010, 05:46 PM

I'd rather they just un-retcon them so they're not boringass Emma clones and just have them be actual characters again.

Every ****ing character don't actually gotta be a clone of every****ingbody else.

Havok83

12-17-2010, 06:00 PM

They arent Emma clones. They are her daughters. Well at least one of them is and the rest are clones of that girl

I prefer to ignore their canon origins, and instead choose think of them as a set of quintuplets.
well Marvel seems to agree with you as their origins hasnt been referenced outside of Warsong. There were some pretty big revelations in that book and nearly every writer went on to ignore it

Manic

12-17-2010, 06:02 PM

I'm assuming the sperm used to make those girls came from a blond man, because Emma is a natural brunette.

Havok83

12-17-2010, 06:24 PM

not necesarily as Emma may still have a recessive gene for blonde hair as the trait does run in her family considering her brother and sister are both natural blondes. The sperm used to fertilize the eggs could have came from a dark haired man with a recessive blonde gene as well

TheCorpulent1

12-18-2010, 04:07 PM

They arent Emma clones. They are her daughters. Well at least one of them is and the rest are clones of that girl
When did that happen? That seems stupid.

Havok83

12-18-2010, 05:58 PM

When did that happen? That seems stupid.
X-men: Phoenix Warsong. Back when Emma was in a coma circa UXM 282, her eggs were harvested by Sublime and used to create the Cuckoos. About a thousand clones were made from the child for the Weapon Plus program. The 3 with the X-men are the only ones that remain from that. It was stupid and thankfully hasn been referenced outside of that mini. I dont think the father was ever mentioned. I just assumed it was Sublime

TheCorpulent1

12-18-2010, 06:08 PM

Oh, so it is stupid.

Manic

12-18-2010, 06:13 PM

LALALALA
I'm ignoring that explanation and still pretending they're just a normal set of mutant quintuplets.
LALALALA

Other things in canon that I choose to ignore:
-The Red Queen
-Azazel
-Layla Miller injecting her memories into the mind of her younger self

Specter313

12-18-2010, 06:41 PM

I understand ignoring those first two, especially Azazel and anything related to him, but why the last? Was it because it just seemed too easy?

Manic

12-18-2010, 06:59 PM

I understand ignoring those first two, especially Azazel and anything related to him, but why the last? Was it because it just seemed too easy?

It was inconsistent with how we saw her powers work in the past. Layla's ability was depicted as though she could see multiple versions of the future, and she knew which chain of events could cause which future to happen. She even told Rictor that's how her powers work. He gave her the codename Butterfly (after the butterfly effect) because of that.

Now, one could argue that Layla was simply lying to Rictor. That still doesn't explain stuff like her visions of Quicksilver. When she first met Quicksilver, she foresaw that she could throw something at a bunch of thugs and blame it on Pietro, causing the thugs to literally beat Pietro to death. However, because of Pietro's connection to Wanda's chaos magic, her interpretation of the future didn't happen. Later on, Layla got kidnapped by Quicksilver. During her escape, she foresaw a way to get Pietro to hurt himself so she'd have the chance to get away.

When Adult Layla injected her memories into Child Layla as an explanation as to why Layla knew stuff as a kid, then why did Layla think she'd be able to trick Quicksilver into getting killed that one time? She would've also had future memories of running away from Quicksilver, right?

Then there's weird stuff that Layla knew about even though she wasn't there to experience it. Shortly after Messiah Complex, Jamie started talking to himself and seeing visions of Layla (who was stuck in the future at the time). During one of this visions, Jamie imagines Layla chanting "One of us! One of us!" About 70 years in the future, we saw Layla standing in a prison yard smirking and saying "One of us. One of us." Was Layla sending her thoughts back in time to Jamie? Did she "know" what Jamie was imagining with her gnarly future powers? Apparently not, because all of her knowledge came from injected memories from her adult self.

It's clear that Peter David's original intention was for Layla to have the power to see into the future, but for reasons either selfish or orders from the source of her powers, she sometimes allowed bad things to happen to her friends. David once said in an interview that he didn't necessarily have any real explanation for her powers in mind yet.

However, when the editors forced David to get rid of Layla during Messiah Complex, he needed to find an excuse to get the character back. When Layla showed up a year later as an adult, even Peter David admitted that he had to pull off something unexpected just so the editors would allow him to bring her back. Lo and behold, we soon found out that Layla's power to "know stuff" was not precognition, but a limited knowledge of future events she got from herself in a paradox. Now Layla's power to "know stuff" is technically gone, despite the fact that we still see Layla conveniently predicting upcoming events.

chamber-music

12-19-2010, 09:42 AM

Other things in canon that I choose to ignore:
-The Red Queen
-Azazel
-Layla Miller injecting her memories into the mind of her younger self

add to that list

-Vulcan Summers

Manic

12-19-2010, 09:46 AM

The only good thing to come out of the Vulcan storyline is Darwin.

TheCorpulent1

12-19-2010, 12:00 PM

Vulcan was actually a pretty good villain for War of Kings. I didn't mind him too much there, especially when Black Bolt got so crazy that Vulcan was actually the voice of reason in their big final battle.

Havok83

12-19-2010, 12:23 PM

Vulcan always had potential. What killed his character was the stupid whining. He was too old for such childish antics. He reminded me of his pseudo-nephew Stryfe in that regard. When they stop focusing on their daddy issues and how they've been wronged, they arent that bad

Manic

12-19-2010, 12:39 PM

While I can't stand Vulcan's whining, he at least has a good excuse. He's mentally still a pre-teen. The Shi'ar rapidly aged him to his teens to use him as a slave, then he and Darwin aged to adulthood while sleeping since the whole Krakoa thing. He really is just a small child in the body of an overpowered adult man.

TheCorpulent1

12-19-2010, 03:56 PM

Well, now he's a small child in the corpse of an overpowered adult man. :awesome:

runawayboulder

12-29-2010, 12:20 PM

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30075

(http://marvel.com/)Marvel Comics (http://marvel.com/) has released a new teaser image featuring the original X-Men (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30075#) team facing off against the current incarnation's core membership under the title of "X-Men: First to Last." Aside from a date of May 2011, no further information accompanied the image.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1293640362.jpg

Manic

12-29-2010, 12:26 PM

I'm rooting for the classic team.

Iron Man

12-29-2010, 12:35 PM

Who isn't?

Havok83

12-29-2010, 12:46 PM

I prefer the originals vs the current X-men. With that said, these will most likely be robots, clones or some other manufactured beings. Been there, done that

Colossal Spoons

12-29-2010, 01:12 PM

I saw no need to replace Beast with Wolverine

Havok83

12-29-2010, 01:25 PM

Wolverine probably makes the best choice considering Beast up and quit the X-men. Only 3 of the original 5 are still with the group. They need 5 in order for this concept to work

BoredGuy

12-29-2010, 01:27 PM

History is important.

But there's a reason the o5 was cancelled and replaced.

That being said, the current team is possibly doing similar damage to the franchise.

Giant-Sized team all the way!

Manic

12-29-2010, 01:50 PM

Even when it comes to Bobby, Warren, and Scott, I'd have to go for the Original 5. I might skew toward modern Iceman because he has more extensive use of his powers, but I liked Cyclops when he wasn't Generalissimo, and **** Warren's Death form.

Colossal Spoons

12-29-2010, 02:01 PM

Warren's useful for more than recon when he's in his death form. I'm all for a Angel actually engaging in combat. I loved when he had a sword way back when

Manic

12-29-2010, 02:12 PM

See, I always hated the argument that Warren can't fight unless he's in his Death form. By that logic, maybe they should've replaced Nightcrawler's tail and feet with spikes and knives, because god knows having only a travel-based power and engaging in hand-to-hand combat makes a character useless.

Colossal Spoons

12-29-2010, 02:49 PM

Nightcrawler was a skilled swordsman and could tp people's limbs off. Warren w/o his sword really isn't much use in a fight against somebody w/ powers. S'why they always have him go "scout the area"

Manic

12-29-2010, 03:03 PM

Kurt barely used his swords and almost never teleported off a limb. He went into pretty much every fight by teleporting next someone and punching/kicking them.

Warren has above-normal strength due to his highly dense muscles compensating for his hollow bones, and yeah let's give the dude another sword if we want to. Without a sword, he's about as useful in a fight as Kurt, except he can't suddenly appear behind the person he was just facing. The fact that he only ever seemed to be used for recon is a fault with the writers. Every time I see Warren change to his Death form, I die a little inside. I think Chris Claremont and Chuck Austen (of all people) are the only writers in recent years who knew how to use Archangel without his wings being made of knives.

Havok83

12-29-2010, 03:04 PM

Nightcrawler never teleported anyone's limbs off. Dont confuse him with any alternate reality versions like AoA. He used his power strictly for movement. Angel handled himself against the entire team of Thunderbolts back in the 90s and he's been shown to do more than just scout around. He was a solo hero in the past. He can more than handle himself without a sword (something he only used when Austen was writing)

Colossal Spoons

12-29-2010, 05:02 PM

Scourge2099

12-29-2010, 05:18 PM

The fact that Warren isn't worm food like Kurt is is a big plus for him.

javi1024

12-29-2010, 05:20 PM

I said he could tp limbs off. And I think Kurt is in the same boat as Warren actually. They're both good in a fight against some thugs but if I were fighting Nimrod, I'd prob want diff people on my team :shrug:
well in that scenario he most likely would try bamfing his limbs (and if i remember correctly he did in the past). he might have done against Bastion too.

fifthfiend

12-29-2010, 08:01 PM

X-men: Phoenix Warsong. Back when Emma was in a coma circa UXM 282, her eggs were harvested by Sublime and used to create the Cuckoos. About a thousand clones were made from the child for the Weapon Plus program. The 3 with the X-men are the only ones that remain from that. It was stupid and thankfully hasn been referenced outside of that mini. I dont think the father was ever mentioned. I just assumed it was Sublime

I'd rather they just un-retcon them so they're not boringass Emma clones and just have them be actual characters again.

Every ****ing character don't actually gotta be a clone of every****ingbody else.

:o.

Anubis

12-29-2010, 09:47 PM

I liked that Exiles version of Warren that had guns.

Havok83

12-30-2010, 09:57 AM

I just read last week's Legacy. My goodness, Cyclops is mad at Hellion and puts him on probabation for his display of violence when he put down Karima, a sentinel, yet he had X-force (and New Mutants in SC) killing actual humans? WTF? Hellion did what he did to save Hope and that little girl from a killing machine that was out to slaughter them and the rest of the X-men. I thought his actions were alot more justified than anything Scott had X-force do. His logic seemed screwed up to me. The minute the secret of X-force came out, he lost any ground to stand on on this issue. He should lead by example, especially if he wants the younger X-men to live up to the old school X-men ideologies.

runawayboulder

12-30-2010, 10:08 AM

They have Cyclops so far gone it's not even funny. Like DD, I thought they would be going somewhere with this but there seems to be no payoff in sight. He was merged with Apocalypse almost 10 years ago. I thought there would be some kind of ending with his dark persona when Jean comes back but that seems like it's never going to happen anytime soon.

chamber-music

12-30-2010, 10:32 AM

Cyclops was always broody but since the merge with Apocalypse his slowly got more darker and darker. Pretty soon his going to make Magneto look like a nice old man.

Brainiac 8

12-30-2010, 11:01 AM

Isn't that what the latest poster was pointing out, about his fear of what he's become?

runawayboulder

12-30-2010, 11:09 AM

It's just another thread that has been left hanging in the X-books that eventually people stop caring about because it goes on for too long. Like the X-traitor, the Legacy Virus and is Cable Scott's son?

Being a fan of X-Men has taught me how to be patient for sure.

bored

12-30-2010, 11:11 AM

Isn't that what the latest poster was pointing out, about his fear of what he's become?

Yeah, pretty much.

Manic

12-30-2010, 01:00 PM

Pretty soon his going to make Magneto look like a nice old man.

In fairness, Magneto actually becomes a nice old man in cycles. He's just joined the X-Men again, so I think he's about due.

NightBeetle

12-31-2010, 03:15 PM

Generation Hope #3 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7399&disp=table)

http://i54.tinypic.com/depq1l.jpg

Havok83

12-31-2010, 04:14 PM

the blue girl has one of the worst designs in recent history. And her only power is flying? It doesnt seem to match her look as she definetly got the short end of the stick when it came to visuals

Manic

12-31-2010, 04:20 PM

It just occurred to me that Hope's team consists of someone who's only power is to fly, someone who controls temperatures, someone who's like an animal, and herself rocking the Phoenix Force. If that one dude shot energy from his body instead of running at super speed, they'd be analogs for the Original 5.

JewishHobbit

12-31-2010, 04:30 PM

I'm just so uninterested in Generation Hope it hurts. The characters are so 2-demensional and unoriginal and I can't help but to feel like Hope herself isn't written consistently. She'd randomly mention something I don't think she should know about with her upbringing but then she wouldn't know something I feel she should... like Captain America. I have to debate each issue whether or not to buy it, then I buy it, then I find myself bored to tears reading it.

Man I miss the 90's.

Specter313

12-31-2010, 04:53 PM

the blue girl has one of the worst designs in recent history. And her only power is flying? It doesnt seem to match her look as she definetly got the short end of the stick when it came to visuals

Gillen said in an interview somewhere that the powers of these lights are not all that they seem on the surface, and that will be something that he delves into as the series progresses. It's probably listed in the Gen Hope thread somewhere.

Manic

12-31-2010, 04:57 PM

I do find it strange that Hope has no idea who Captain America is. Cable loved that guy. In fact, you'd think a good portion of Hope's childhood would've involved tales of all the people Cable knew and respected over the years.

Generation Hope should've never been anything other than a storyline in Uncanny X-Men or X-Men Legacy. I have very little interest in these new people Hope has recruited, and I think it's stupid that she has to touch all newly manifested mutants in order to stop them from going crazy. God forbid she causes more than a handful to appear at a time.

Havok83

12-31-2010, 05:29 PM

Gillen said in an interview somewhere that the powers of these lights are not all that they seem on the surface, and that will be something that he delves into as the series progresses. It's probably listed in the Gen Hope thread somewhere.
Oh thanks. I hope so bc aside from Kenji, all seem rather generic at the moment, especially Laurie (blue girl)

Specter313

12-31-2010, 07:36 PM

Here's what I was thinking of:

3) I'm a little bit confused on Laurie's powers. Could you please explain what she does, or is that something that cannot be revealed just yet?

She can fly, basically.

Man, that's underwhelming. But yes, she can fly. There was a vague original-five symbolism underlying our thinking – which isn't exactly one-for-one – and in power-set terms, she's the team's Angel. A physically enhanced flyer with a form that's adapted for that purpose. It's the latter part of that concept where she separates herself from general flyers – how her form adapts to allow extreme flight and maneuverability.

I've said before, but she's one of the purer characters on the team: a bookish, emotionally anal girl in chains to her own self-demands has to learn how to fly. She's very much superpower as metaphor for character's emotional struggle.

She's proving one of my favorite to write. She's very much the team's "Captain Sensible" character, stepping in and doing the "Wait, we're going to do what?" when the more foolhardy and headstrong people are thinking they're immortal.

f Laurie ever needs a codename, I must confess I like the sound of "Captain Sensible." But back to the emails, Faded Day sent in several great inquiries that made me scratch my head. How about providing some answers while I assure folks I don't have dandruff.

1) I really enjoyed the premiere issue of "Generation Hope!" Laurie and Gabriel particularly grew on me quickly. However, I have to ask about the power sets chosen for the first five new mutants since M-Day: other than Laurie's "shifting crystal" abilities, they possess some of the more common abilities of the Marvel Universe. Was it intentional to kind of go "back to basics" to powers that match Quicksilver (Gabriel), Beast (Teon), and Sunfire/Iceman (Idie)? Do you plan on introducing any "twists" to their abilities?

Thank you. Glad it worked for you.

As I just said to MarvelMaster616, Matt and my thinking around the Five Lights was to try and put a hard twist on some of the archetypal power-sets of the original five.

Angel = Laurie; Beast = Teon; Iceman = Idie; and – well, this is a real reach – Marvel Girl = Kenji. Gabriel is the exception, though by resting on super-speed, you're right that we're hitting the archetypes.

I don't want to spoil too much, but we've tried to put a twist on all of them. I've mentioned Laurie's – though the extremes of it hasn't been seen yet – but one which would be visible if you really read the books closely is Idie's. She's not a temperature generator; she's a temperature manipulator. She moves heat around. For example, you'll see the ground freezing around her as she summons the fire-blast aimed at Teon in "Uncanny X-Men" #529. If she can't take heat from somewhere, she's useless.

That's what I mean: a hard-yet-accessible twist which colors their specific abilities. While these are core power-sets, they're personal to them. There isn't a speedster like Gabriel and there isn't a primal like Teon, and you'll see why in issues #4 and 5, respectively. Well, start to see in Teon's case. He's a complicated guy for someone whose vocabulary is more limited than Jamie McKelvie's.