X-Men

[chamber-music]

I do find it strange that Hope has no idea who Captain America is. Cable loved that guy. In fact, you'd think a good portion of Hope's childhood would've involved tales of all the people Cable knew and respected over the years.

Perhaps he was too busy teaching here to be his 'lil John Conners' to tell her that stuff plus Cable is mister talkative
I'm just so uninterested in Generation Hope it hurts. The characters are so 2-demensional and unoriginal and I can't help but to feel like Hope herself isn't written consistently. She'd randomly mention something I don't think she should know about with her upbringing but then she wouldn't know something I feel she should... like Captain America. I have to debate each issue whether or not to buy it, then I buy it, then I find myself bored to tears reading it.

Man I miss the 90's.
Your preaching to the choir there brother :up:

[Manic]

Perhaps he was too busy teaching here to be his 'lil John Conners' to tell her that stuff plus Cable is mister talkative

Yeah, but we're talking about 17 years of raising this girl. 17 years without TV. Somewhere down the line, he had to have passed on a few stories to her. In fact, I'd like to see writers really play around with Cable's influence on Hope outside of her use of guns. I want to see her cite Askani beliefs and remember Captain America as one of her father's heroes.

[Havok83]

whats Cable's history with Captain America. I dont recall him having much of anything to do with him let alone idolizing him

[Manic]

It's a revelation from only the past few years, but apparently Cable used Captain America's shield in the distant future. Steve dies, but the shield lives on both physically and as a symbol.

[Iron Man]

And didn't he wear Cap's emblem during Civil War?

[runawayboulder]

He wore it on his shoulders when he joined the team at the start of Mike Carey's run.

[runawayboulder]

He wore it on his shoulders when he joined the team at the start of Mike Carey's run.

[El Bastardo]

C'mon, Manic. You know nothing from Cable/Deadpool has been referenced in a Cable comic since he disappeared before Messiah Complex.

Not the lack of TK, or the replacement of his TK with technological alternatives, or the fact that he had a TO-symbiote attached to his body instead of the actual TO-virus.

It's nice to have hope, but face the facts, man.

[Drz]

Is it wrong to be little curious for Age of X due to the Avengers:
http://marvel.com/9131968/
http://marvel.com/9131968/images/image.jpg

Ghost Rider!!!! :D

[Havok83]

Who the heck is the dark haired woman? Jessica Drew?

[TheCorpulent1]

Ye gods, what a f***ing horrible 'Avengers' team. :o

[BrianWilly]

Who the heck is the dark haired woman? Jessica Drew?I'm guessing so, from the armpit webbings. Also from the way she manages to show us as much ass as possible while only breaking half the bones in her spine.

[runawayboulder]

Who drew that, McNiven?

[BoredGuy]

^no way.
McNiven isn't one to usually butcher the female figure like that spider-woman up there.

and why do i get the feeling they're gunna be kinda villainous as pertains to the Age of X..?

[Manic]

It's an alternate universe X-Men story, and their version of the Avengers is being assembled specifically to hunt down mutants. Prepare to see a giant moral gray area there, if not outright villainy.

[Scourge2099]

Why is Sue on that Avengers team anyway ? I hope she didn't kill the rest of the FF because they were defending Franklin from her .

[Panthro]

I'm just so uninterested in Generation Hope it hurts. The characters are so 2-demensional and unoriginal and I can't help but to feel like Hope herself isn't written consistently. She'd randomly mention something I don't think she should know about with her upbringing but then she wouldn't know something I feel she should... like Captain America. I have to debate each issue whether or not to buy it, then I buy it, then I find myself bored to tears reading it.

Man I miss the 90's.
I can't seem to get interested in X-Men lately in general. I'm not sure why, maybe it's just too far removed from the X-Men I grew up with, maybe it's my irrational dislike of Wolverine & Emma Frost, my general feeling of discomfort over how Cyclops has been written in recent years, or maybe I'm just having too much fun reading Thor and Green Lantern.

[BrianWilly]

Out of complete morbid curiosity I read through the latest issue of X-Men.

Yeah, mistake.

Look, I'm sure there's a perfectly logical, justifiable reason for Cyclops to beam Blade in the back of the head. Mr. Summers probably just wanted to side with Dracula -- repeat, Dracula -- 'cause it's gonna benefit his quaint little Utopia in some way. Totally understandable!

That does not make it any less irritating to read.

[Helios]

It's an alternate universe X-Men story, and their version of the Avengers is being assembled specifically to hunt down mutants. Prepare to see a giant moral gray area there, if not outright villainy.
I know that it's an alternate universe, but even in 616, the X-books treat the Avengers as untrustworthy in the past decade. I remember back in the Onslaught Saga when Nate Grey tried to convince the Avengers that Xavier was a threat, but they refused to believe that one of their most trusted allies could turn evil. Why do the X-books take jabs at the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and other non-mutant superheroes? You don't see the Avengers or Fantastic Four writers to this to their X-colleagues.

[Manic]

Well, the X-Men and Avengers are on good terms now. The Avengers and Fantastic Four even showed up to help the X-Men during Second Coming, and Steve Rogers & the President decorated Cyclops with all kinds of praise and medals.

Then Scott realized he was being a dick for the past few years, and disbanded X-Force. That's not relevant, but I wanted to put that out there.

[TheCorpulent1]

Out of complete morbid curiosity I read through the latest issue of X-Men.

Yeah, mistake.

Look, I'm sure there's a perfectly logical, justifiable reason for Cyclops to beam Blade in the back of the head. Mr. Summers probably just wanted to side with Dracula -- repeat, Dracula -- 'cause it's gonna benefit his quaint little Utopia in some way. Totally understandable!

That does not make it any less irritating to read.
The best part about it is that there's actually not any logical reason to it. I read the whole arc and Cyclops literally just sends a couple X-Men out to fight like 3 vampires and then goes, "Welp, guess that ain't gonna work. But look what I just happened to have lying around here: Dracula's corpse! Come on, X-Men, let's resurrect one of the greatest evils the world has ever known without actually exploring any other options first! Questionable leadership and moral ambiguity, YEAH!"

And then Dracula promptly knocks a few X-Men on their asses and splits. But it's okay, 'cause it turns out like 3 issues later that Cyclops also secretly had some kind of failsafe implanted into Wolverine that allowed him to heal from being a vampire instantly, allowing Wolverine to pretty much single-handedly annihilate all of Xarus' invading vampire forces with ease.

Looking back on this whole arc, I honestly don't know how I managed to stick with the series this long. :facepalm:

[BrianWilly]

I just read it 'cause it had Nate Grey on the cover and I wanted to know wtf happened to him after Dark X-Men. http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-crying.gif

[Manic]

If people keep writing Cyclops like this, TVTropes is gonna have to rename their Xanatos Gambit article. It seems like all he does is concoct plans that involve false-losses and fake-outs.

"Ha ha, Norman Osborn! You thought you had me, but I've got you trying to kill an entire species on national TV!"

"Ha ha, Bastion! You thought you had me, but I have a time-traveling son who can shut down your invading future-sentinels!"

"Ha ha, Xarus! You thought you had me, but I can stop Wolverine from being a vampire with the push of a button and Iceman is made of holy water!"

[Specter313]

Looks like the rest of the F4 in Age of X were arrested for harboring Wolfsbane:

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/2/e0/4d21e723701f3.jpg



The Fantastic Four may be the celebrated first family of the Marvel Universe as we know it, but in the unfamiliar Age of X, drastic change has hit far beyond simply those who would be the X-Men.

“The intensifying anti-mutant hate campaigns fed on themselves in a process that was manifestly out of control,” elaborates Age of X writer Mike Carey on this timeline’s history. “Calmer voices called for a truce and a nationwide debate on human rights. But in the charged atmosphere of those times, even to express doubts about the mutant culls was to become a focus for suspicion and surveillance. Reed Richards' outspoken opposition to the Exonim program put him on the watch lists of a great many agencies: they were waiting for any infringement of the mutant sequestration laws, and when the opportunity opened up, they moved quickly.”

While Richards and his family fell to the charged racial atmosphere of this twisted reality, other champions of justice confronted crossroads of their own.

“All non-mutant heroes now faced a bitter decision: whether to stay within a framework of laws that was appallingly unjust and inhumane, or to follow their own consciences and become, by that very act, rebels and insurgents against their own government,” says Carey. “For the Avengers, who enjoyed the official patronage of that government, the tensions were particularly painful...”

You can take a peek at this historical log for yourself by downloading a QR Reader to your Smartphone and using the code to the left for exclusive access.

For brand new codes and more info on what led to the Age of X, continue watching Marvel’s new releases and right here on Marvel.com! And for more on the fate of the Avengers, Fantastic Four and others in this world check out AGE OF X UNIVERSE #1 in March!


http://marvel.com/news/story/14919/age_of_x_impact_spreads

[TheCorpulent1]

If people keep writing Cyclops like this, TVTropes is gonna have to rename their Xanatos Gambit article. It seems like all he does is concoct plans that involve false-losses and fake-outs.

"Ha ha, Norman Osborn! You thought you had me, but I've got you trying to kill an entire species on national TV!"

"Ha ha, Bastion! You thought you had me, but I have a time-traveling son who can shut down your invading future-sentinels!"

"Ha ha, Xarus! You thought you had me, but I can stop Wolverine from being a vampire with the push of a button and Iceman is made of holy water!"
That part almost made up for the rest of it, but we didn't actually get to see much come of it, unfortunately.

[Scourge2099]

Looks like the rest of the F4 in Age of X were arrested for harboring Wolfsbane:

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/2/e0/4d21e723701f3.jpg



http://marvel.com/news/story/14919/age_of_x_impact_spreads
I guess Sue ain't a mutie lover like the rest of the FF then. Ironic considering her son in the 616 is a mutant.

[Manic]

That part almost made up for the rest of it, but we didn't actually get to see much come of it, unfortunately.

Yeah, I was kinda disappointed. We get a couple of panels dedicated to showing a priest blessing Bobby in his ice form, only to see him using his powers once in the background for one panel during the fight. He didn't even get to mention that it worked. We just had to assume it did because we saw a partially frozen skeleton on the battlefield.


You know, Mike Carey might be laying it on a little thick with the Rogue-love, but he's one of the most balanced writers on the core X-books right now. He makes the book all about Rogue in the same way other writers make Uncanny and Adjectiveless about Cyclops, but at least every other character gets some dialogue and development under his pen.

[TheCorpulent1]

My profound indifference to Rogue prevents me from picking Legacy back up. I liked it a lot when it was focusing on Xavier, though.

[Manic]

Sometimes I still crack open that issue where Charles singlehandedly took down the Acolytes. I loved that whole "making up for past mistakes, but no longer pretending to be a saint" story arc he went through. Now that Charles is a little more open in his dickishness, writers can no longer pull a "You thought Professor X was so good, but check out THIS terrible secret" on us again. But then, writers would have to actually use Charles for it to make a difference.

[TheCorpulent1]

I love that he's become more of a badass. It always seemed lame to hamstring this guy who could literally turn other people's minds on and off with a thought by making him too respectful to actually use his powers. Plus, given where the other X-Men are at this point, he still totally comes off as a saint. He could start chronically stealing candy from children and still come off as a saint next to Cyclops.

[Havok83]

I dont see how they've made him more of a badass. They retconned shady actions into his past but present day Xavier hasnt changed in recent years. He's still portayed the same as he's always been. If anything they've made him more weak with the way others have crapped on him like Cyclops and he just stands there and takes the abuse. Even Emma slapped him across the faced and owned him on the astral plane. The most badass thing we've ever seen Xavier do was wipe out Magneto's mind back in Fatal Attraction. Unforutnately no one seems to want to write him in the X-world these days. I kinda wish he was put into a coma or something in Second Coming to at least explain his absense.

[Manic]

He did show up during Second Coming, if only briefly. He got his son Legion out of Danger's brig and convinced his lucid/primary personality to help out during the fight against the sentinels.

Charles hasn't really stood there to take anyone's crap since Bishop shot him in the face, though. He stayed away from the X-Men until getting captured by Norman Osborn prior to the Utopia crossover. After the X-Men rescued him and moved to their island, the first thing Charles did was violently rip through Magneto's mind to make sure ol' Erik wasn't up to anything funny.

And then he disappeared into the background until Second Coming. And then he disappeared again.

[Havok83]

that outburst against Magneto made absolutely no sense considering the last time they were together, they were working together to rebuild Genosha. They were on friendly terms and Xavier had no reason to feel such venom towards him. He really overdid it then and I didnt think Fraction got his characterization quite right in that issue

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe Fraction just enjoys writing a**holes. It seems like that complaint keeps coming up for his comics. Chuck's too much of an a**hole, Thor's too much of an a**hole, Iron Man's too--well, okay, so he got one right.

[Havok83]

haha, dont forget his Scott is too much of an a-hole as well

[TheCorpulent1]

Did that start with Fraction? I feel like Scott's been a jackbooted fascist overly militarized for longer than Fraction's been writing him...

[Havok83]

No he started being an a-hole shortly after Deadly Genesis but the miltary general he is today didnt happen till he closed the school, relocated to San Francisco and transformed the X-men into an army

[Manic]

El Bastardo is back in town, so I'm not gonna go on another Fraction rant.




**** it.

Matt Fraction can't keep track of X-Men continuity to save his life. Storm is encouraging Emma to act more like a leader one minute, then getting in her face and asking "Who put you in charge?" the next. Charles & Erik went from old chums to hostile for no reason. Madelyne Pryor went from a psychic with no access to magic and free from the evil/demonic influence of her time as the Goblin Queen to an evil/demonic magic ghost calling herself the Red Queen. Pixie apparently needs a moped to get around San Francisco. Hell, the San Francisco Police drove across the Bay Bridge to raid a warehouse in Oakland for some inane reason.

[Iron Man]

El Bastardo is back in town, so I'm not gonna go on another Fraction rant.




**** it.

Matt Fraction can't keep track of X-Men continuity to save his life. Storm is encouraging Emma to act more like a leader one minute, then getting in her face and asking "Who put you in charge?" the next. Charles & Erik went from old chums to hostile for no reason. Madelyne Pryor went from a psychic with no access to magic and free from the evil/demonic influence of her time as the Goblin Queen to an evil/demonic magic ghost calling herself the Red Queen. Pixie apparently needs a moped to get around San Francisco. Hell, the San Francisco Police drove across the Bay Bridge to raid a warehouse in Oakland for some inane reason.

"Sisterhood" is the one Fraction arc that I think is completely awful. The others all have at least some good elements - that was just terrible...I still don't get it. It's one redeeming feature was that it brought Psylocke back, but even the execution of that was bad.

[runawayboulder]

No he started being an a-hole shortly after Deadly Genesis but the miltary general he is today didnt happen till he closed the school, relocated to San Francisco and transformed the X-men into an army


The line got heavily blurred from what Morrison started him out as, into what Brubaker and Fraction have evolved him into. Cyclops started out as a complex, cold, emotionless man to a complete jerk off.

[TheCorpulent1]

My favorite is still Joss Whedon's "Han Solo with optic blasts" interpretation.

[Dread]

My favorite is still Joss Whedon's "Han Solo with optic blasts" interpretation.

Get it right; Whedon's Cyclops was Mal Reynolds from "FIREFLY". There was even one panel where Cassaday was clearly inspired by a Nathan Fillion screen shot from "FIREFLY".

Personally, I uaually never like "a hero loses their powers and becomes a trillion times more efficient without them" stories, because they always reclaim their powers, and while logic would dictate that said hero's new-found skills would make them MORE efficient with their regained powers, in serialized superhero fiction that has literally never once happened. One would imagine that if Cyclops could function without his powers for a while, once he regained them, he'd be twice as skilled. He isn't.

Plus, to be honest, the idea of being able to overcome psychic illusions by shooting them with a handgun is so profoundly stupid, not even a TV network executive would have approved of it. By that logic, no one could ever psychically possess or fool the Punisher (he'd shoot a KITTEN if it was in gang colors). Still, I will say Whedon's stab with him had it's moments. Not much has been done with Colossus since that run.

The best all around version of Cyclops for me may very well be the version that was written in "X-MEN EVOLUTION".

[Panthro]

The line got heavily blurred from what Morrison started him out as, into what Brubaker and Fraction have evolved him into. Cyclops started out as a complex, cold, emotionless man to a complete jerk off.
Grant Morrison should stick to Vertigo.

[Manic]

Get it right; Whedon's Cyclops was Mal Reynolds from "FIREFLY". There was even one panel where Cassaday was clearly inspired by a Nathan Fillion screen shot from "FIREFLY".

But... Mal was inspired by Han.

Personally, I uaually never like "a hero loses their powers and becomes a trillion times more efficient without them" stories, because they always reclaim their powers, and while logic would dictate that said hero's new-found skills would make them MORE efficient with their regained powers, in serialized superhero fiction that has literally never once happened. One would imagine that if Cyclops could function without his powers for a while, once he regained them, he'd be twice as skilled. He isn't.

But it wasn't that type of story for him. Whedon created the first in a series of fake-outs that have defined Cyclops these past few years. He told everyone that he didn't have his powers, gave leadership of the mission over to Abigail, and allowed himself to be captured all for the purpose of getting close to the bad guy and fooling him into thinking he couldn't fight back. Then we got that badass "WHAT OTHER LIES HAVE YOU TOLD" scene where Scott reveals that he had his powers the whole time. He wasn't any more skilled or efficient without his powers; he was pretending to be sort of ineffective without them. Then when he revealed that he still had them, his balls grew back and he took full control of... well, everything.


Plus, to be honest, the idea of being able to overcome psychic illusions by shooting them with a handgun is so profoundly stupid, not even a TV network executive would have approved of it. By that logic, no one could ever psychically possess or fool the Punisher (he'd shoot a KITTEN if it was in gang colors).

I didn't think he was using a real gun. I thought it was a metaphor for the psychic defenses Blindfold was giving him. Scott told Peter that "X-Men don't shoot people" while he was simultaneously shooting a psychic illusion with his back turned to it. We've seen astral fights before, but this was the only one done with a psychic projection of a gun instead of melee weapons.

[TheCorpulent1]

If only we knew how utterly laughable that "X-Men don't shoot people" line would become in just a few short years.

[Manic]

It was kinda laughable at the time. Bishop and Cable were all guns.

[runawayboulder]

Grant Morrison should stick to Vertigo.


His run on New X-Men was outstanding.

[Manic]

It certainly stood out...

[JewishHobbit]

It destroyed the X-Men in my opinion. All failures that we complain about now stemmed from Morrison's New X-Men. So while it was a fantastic read, it was also the end of good X-Men and it all began with Morrison's treatment of Cyclops and Jean, the affair, and Scott's ending up with Emma.

[Panthro]

I find Morrison's work on superheroes is pretty hit or miss in general and didn't find his overall X-Men run to be very impressive. Truth be told, I don't think he's as good as so many make him out to be.

[JewishHobbit]

I find Morrison's work on superheroes is pretty hit or miss in general and didn't find his overall X-Men run to be very impressive. Truth be told, I don't think he's as good as so many make him out to be.

My Morrison experiences are X-Men and Batman & Robin. I can definately see the talented mind but I question his execution and if he worries about the longterm effects of it. It's interesting for him but it kills anything that comes after.

Though, that's just from my limited experiences with him.

[runawayboulder]

It destroyed the X-Men in my opinion. All failures that we complain about now stemmed from Morrison's New X-Men. So while it was a fantastic read, it was also the end of good X-Men and it all began with Morrison's treatment of Cyclops and Jean, the affair, and Scott's ending up with Emma.

That's silly, there have been 3 or 4 writers on the X-Men since Morrison left that could have did either good or bad things with the franchise. Most have been not good. Quite a few things from Morrison's run have been ignored or phased out since. The only thing that has remained is Scott/Emma.

[JewishHobbit]

Thing is, Scott and Emma is the biggest flaw Morrison did. Scott and Jean were the core of the team and a big part of the family atmosphere. Making Scott have an affair with Emma and Jean attempting to have an affair with Wolverine broke that, and then putting Scott and Emma together in the end killed the core of that family feeling. THAT is what destroyed the X-Men (for me). Because take all the M-Days that you want, in the end the X-Men were a united family that can fight through it. Morrison took that away by destroying the core of that family with Scott and Jean and every other writer just ran with it until Fraction wiped the last of it out.

Like I said, Morrison's run was good despite the Scott/Jean/Emma/Logan love square, but the team started falling apart when the family atmosphere was lost and that began with Jean's death and Scott and Emma's affair. With the exception of maybe Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, the team (no matter what characters or book it is) has been on a downward spiral ever since. Nothing feels right. Writers can't get anything rolling. Fans aren't happy. Fraction finalized it by killing off Nightcrawler and sending Beast away... the last two good feeling X-Men left in my opinion (maybe Iceman, but he's not being used really).

Like I've said, take the X-Men now and what they were 15 years ago and beyond and it's not at all recognizable and the downward spiral began with Morrison's run.

[Manic]

See, I blame M-Day for destroying the X-Men. That was when the X-Men went from a team of superheroes and educators with mixed social allegory to an army fighting for survival. It killed the premise of the entire X-Men franchise. Prior to M-Day, even the things that Morrison did didn't harm the X-Men comics that much. We wouldn't have half of the complaints about Cyclops and the X-Men that we do right now if M-Day hadn't rendered the X-Men's old mission statement moot.

And with that, I blame Mike Marts. He was the editor in charge of the X-books when House of M happened. He allowed M-Day to happen. He stuck around through Decimation with absolutely no plan on what to do with the franchise after that reaction-arc was done. Then he abandoned ship, moved to DC, and became editor of JLA. He left the X-books in shambles.

[javi1024]

See, I blame M-Day for destroying the X-Men. That was when the X-Men went from a team of superheroes and educators with mixed social allegory to an army fighting for survival. It killed the premise of the entire X-Men franchise. Prior to M-Day, even the things that Morrison did didn't harm the X-Men comics that much. We wouldn't have half of the complaints about Cyclops and the X-Men that we do right now if M-Day hadn't rendered the X-Men's old mission statement moot.

And with that, I blame Mike Marts. He was the editor in charge of the X-books when House of M happened. He allowed M-Day to happen. He stuck around through Decimation with absolutely no plan on what to do with the franchise after that reaction-arc was done. Then he abandoned ship, moved to DC, and became editor of JLA. He left the X-books in shambles.
hehe and from what i understand JLA has been struggling to be relevant for years now. coincidence?? :woot:

[TheCorpulent1]

That was due more to the DC universe not having much of a coherent creative direction. Higher-ups kept changing what they could do and which characters are available and such and the writer of JLA at the time had to keep turning on a dime to accommodate all of that.

[Anubis]

F**King Didio.

[Manic]

Sorry, I forgot to add that Marts also became the editor in charge of Countdown. So really, I hate him for multiple reasons.

[Anubis]

Wow. Well, there's no excuse for Countdown. How is that dude still working?

[Manic]

Wow. Well, there's no excuse for Countdown. How is that dude still working?

I don't know. He's currently working with the Batman comics.

[javi1024]

and i havent cared for those books much either....maybe this guy IS poison! :wow:

[El Bastardo]

There's nothing inherently bad about Scott/Emma, and truthfully, it worked for Morrison's narrative and wasn't just one of those things done to be "cool."

Not to mention it's stuck and become a working dynamic.

Just because some people don't like it doesn't make it a bad idea, nor a bad execution. Just reminding people of that.

[runawayboulder]

I don't think Scott ever intended to be with Emma. Wasn't it intended that Jean was going to be Scott's choice over Emma but Jean ended up getting killed in a cruel twist of fate by Morrison?

[Manic]

I don't think it was ever stated either way.

[TheCorpulent1]

I think the family aspect could still have been salvaged, albeit kind of... around Scott and Emma. I hate to beat a dead horse, but Whedon managed to imbue Astonishing with that old family feeling, to some extent. The X-Men in his comic felt very much like people who'd lived together for years and knew each other inside and out. Kitty's vendetta against Emma could even be looked at as the familiar family drama trope of the daughter or kid sister being resentful of daddy's new girlfriend, if you think about.

[JewishHobbit]

Oh I agree with you, and I'm not saying what Morrison did was WRONG (though I hate it personally) but the gears he set into motion was the beginning of the X-Men's downfall because of the loss of that family feeling. As I said earlier, Whedon's the only one who even remotely made it work post Morrison. No one else has captured that family feeling with the team and it's been hurting since then.

I think it's just that most writers can't salvage the family feeling and it was left behind with no intent of returning. And thus, instead of a family we have a military unit.

[TheCorpulent1]

There was a concerted effort once they moved to San Francisco to turn them into more of a military force. I remember interviews with Fraction where he literally said as much, that the X-Men, now faced with the very real possibility of the extinction of mutantkind, would take on a more militaristic attitude. He delivered that in spades, unfortunately.

[Manic]

There was a concerted effort once they moved to San Francisco to turn them into more of a military force. I remember interviews with Fraction where he literally said as much, that the X-Men, now faced with the very real possibility of the extinction of mutantkind, would take on a more militaristic attitude. He delivered that in spades, unfortunately.

Hasn't one of the writers actually gone as far as to say that there's no place for that old family feeling in the X-Men anymore?

[TheCorpulent1]

I haven't heard that quote, as far as I recall, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's a shame because that's the main reason I just can't get behind any X-Men comics anymore. It's one thing to follow a character who's always been a total bastard, like Wolverine or the Punisher. But I can't pick up a comic expecting noble but flawed heroes working toward peace and be content with an army of douchebags who've betrayed their morals in the struggle for survival at any cost. Gischler came close to recapturing the old family feeling in his first couple issues of X-Men, but then his plot just spiraled into utter absurdity and I couldn't even enjoy the bits and pieces of decent characterization spread throughout each issue.

[Manic]

Just read X-Factor, man. They're technically not X-Men, and they're basically a dysfunctional family.

[TheCorpulent1]

I do. But I don't really consider them an X-related comic at this point. They just got done fighting Hela to free Pip the troll, after all. Not really dealing with the whole mutant politics scene.

[El Bastardo]

How was it the beginning of a downfall?

This is without pointing out - which I am now doing, by the by - that the use of the word "downfall" indicates you've the clairvoyance, no offense meant and nor is this any type of attack, to define this era of X-Men comics and this specific direction the X-Department of Marvel has decided to take as a "downfall," more or less meaning a period of suck.

And the comics do not currently suck. Are they perfect? Not even close. Are they great? Nope. They're good to mediocre, generally, nothing inspiring, nothing aspiring. But they don't suck, whether you love them or hate them or how much one hates a specific creator, and oh no, I'm certainly not focusing that little comment at a certain vocal group of dis- and malcontents. (It was actually focused at Manic, because we all know who he hates. Irrationally, might I add! Tons of <3, Manicbuddy.)

And I'm not saying this era of X-Men comics won't be seen as a downfall, for the record. It certainly could. It could have such a sterling turn over the next few years that everyone'll be looking back, scratching their proverbial heads, and wondering what the balls happened. But it's one of those comments you really can't make in the now.

But I get it, really. What else do we do here but moan and complain endlessly? Nobody wants their characters stuck in the mud and doing the same things over and over, in the same places, in the same status quo - that's why everyone hated Quesada's vision for 616 Spidey, right? Just like nobody wants characters going to new places or doing new things or heading in new directions unless it's the direction they want, because we all know what's best for the characters we read about, and it's not what's being published. We'd much prefer them actually not going in that new direction, and would rather them stick in that comfortable status quo... oh, wait. Something went wrong there. I can feel it.

</facetious>

[JewishHobbit]

Hasn't one of the writers actually gone as far as to say that there's no place for that old family feeling in the X-Men anymore?

Yeah, I read it and it annoyed me. I want to say it was that Tom Brevoort but I could be wrong.

But I get it, really. What else do we do here but moan and complain endlessly? Nobody wants their characters stuck in the mud and doing the same things over and over, in the same places, in the same status quo - that's why everyone hated Quesada's vision for 616 Spidey, right? Just like nobody wants characters going to new places or doing new things or heading in new directions unless it's the direction they want, because we all know what's best for the characters we read about, and it's not what's being published. We'd much prefer them actually not going in that new direction, and would rather them stick in that comfortable status quo... oh, wait. Something went wrong there. I can feel it.

Actually I'm pretty sure the big upset about Quesada's Spider-Man is the changing of the past. Splitting Peter and MJ sucks but it was moreso how it was handled and how it changed 20 years of comics to make it work (and I use work lightly). Nothing wrong with new directions as long as it stays true to the character. That's where the X-Men issue lies. They've moved into a new direction that goes against what the characters have stood for since creation with no intent of pulling back from it or learning from it. If you don't care about characterisation then you won't mind but if you prefer continuity with your characters there's a problem.

The Spider-Man issue and the X-Men issue are two different issues entirely.

[BrianWilly]

And the comics do not currently suck.Yes they do. :word:

[squeekness]

They are tepid at best. :p

[Manic]

Let me just list out my likes and dislikes. You know, to get them out of the way...

Likes:
-The move to San Francisco ('ve actually gotten in arguments about why I don't want them to move back to New York)
-Finally being accepted by the general public and government as heroes. You know, again.
-Scott & Emma
-Hope Summers, Messiah Complex, Second Coming
-Magneto joining the X-Men. Again.
-The X-Club
-X-Men Legacy, though I've fallen way behind.
-Cyclops disbanding X-Force
-Kitty's back
-Professor X is walking. Again.
-The Sublime group. Seriously, I've been asking for the U-Men to come back ever since Morrison left. I'm glad to see them again, even if they're being drawn by Greg Land.


Dislike:
-The lack of focus on specific characters. Not just my favorite characters, but most characters in general. Most writers used to balance character-based stories with plot-heavy stories, but now it feels like Fraction and Gischler are putting so much focus on the plots that we don't get to see the personalities of more than 5 characters. Everyone else seems to be reduced to background fodder to fill out panel space and action scenes.
-X-Force. By that, I mean the very concept of the X-Men having a secret squad of assassins.
-Utopia Island. The crossover was okay with me, though.
-Nightcrawler's death-- especially since he was plucked from obscurity for the express purpose of killing him off.
-Beast's constant moaning and eventual departure.
-Matt Fraction's inconsistency. The man had me right up until Sisterhood. Since then, it's been a rollercoaster of quality.
-The lack of Havok, Polaris, and Marvel Girl.

[NightBeetle]

Gillen Lights the Way for "Generation Hope" (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30229)

http://i51.tinypic.com/33lhx7d.jpg

For the past several years, the mutants of the Marvel Universe (http://marvel.com/) have felt like they've been stumbling around in the dark trying to find a way towards the future. Thanks to the Scarlet Witch's losing her sanity combined with her reality altering powers during the event known as "The House of M," the mutant population was drastically reduced, and to make matters worse, since that time only one new mutant has been born. While she was still a baby, the new mutant was sent into the future with her protector, the X-Man known as Cable. Recently, Hope literally and metaphorically arrived for mutants as Cable and his charge returned to the present. Cable had raised the girl, who was now a teenager, as his own, giving her the name Hope.

Unfortunately, their return inadvertently caused the X-Men (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30010) to confront a massive conspiracy that wanted to wipe out mutants for good. In the final battle of this bloody and costly conflict, Hope lost her father, but gained a new mission. In the aftermath, five lights flared to life on the X-Men's mutant tracking computer, Cerebro, indicating that five new mutants had suddenly become active.

In "Uncanny X-Men's" recently concluded "Five Lights" story arc, Hope helped find four of these new mutants. The five mutants then graduated to their own series, "Generation Hope," (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=27392) written by Kieron Gillen (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28231) with Salvador Espin handling art. In the series current arc, "The Future is a Four Letter Word" Hope, the four "Lights," and some X-Men traveled to Tokyo to track down the fifth new mutant. They found him, but they also found a gigantic amount of trouble because the fifth mutant, Kenji Uedo, has a power that has made him dangerously unstable. His body is now a chaotic mass of techno organic flesh he's able to transform into a seemingly unlimited amount of nasty and dangerous forms.


"Some readers have commented that Kenji is behaving like the character Tetsuo in the anime adaptation of 'Akira.' That resemblance is deliberate and highly stated. I mean, the first line in the whole comic is, "I am becoming art." What I'm trying to do with Kenji is [show] that he's an artist, and I wanted to talk about the idea of creation. He consumes culture, and now his body starts acting in a certain way. He could have created anything, but he hasn't. He's acting like he's in 'Akira' because he's watched 'Akira.' It's how he thinks he should act, it's the only way he can process the horror of his body starting to warp. It brings to mind that wonderful scene in 'Preacher' where Cassidy takes the piss out of another vampire who's doing the whole gothic thing. He's like, 'Why the hell are you acting like that?' That's what's going on with Kenji.

He's somebody who's consumed all this art, and now, because of that, how he instinctively chose to apply his power is kind of derivative," Gillen told CBR News. "Of course, what's interesting about him is that he makes his living doing high art, but underneath it all is this stuff from the pulp tradition. And as we progress, he becomes more his own thing. It's the concept of what inspires you when you're trying something new out. 'Akira' is the main homage everybody has picked up on, and Godzilla is definitely in there. One that was definitely on my mind was 'Tetsuo the Iron Man.' It was something that me and Matt Fraction spent way too much time talking about, back in the day. That imagery of a semi-mechanical, semi-biological body horror thing. These are the images that inform all these sorts of fantasies."

Kenji's instability has been exacerbated by his nihilistic belief that a better future is unattainable. "Kenji believes that we're stuck with what's come before and no one can make things better, while Hope believes a better future is possible if you fight for it. So Kenji is the avatar of post modern nihilism, and at the end of #2, he took the form of a giant monster," Gillen explained. "In issue #3, we'll have some good old-fashioned giant monsters attacking Tokyo style action. If we can't have enormous, cancerous bio-titans fighting in Tokyo, I really don't see the point of the genre. These are the things we must not be ashamed about and they are the things that make me cackle. So we've got a big, fun monster battle in Tokyo, but it's fundamentally about Hope versus this nihilism idea."

Kenji's bleak outlook has struck a chord with Hope who spent her childhood growing up in a dismal post apocalyptic possible future. "Hope wants to prevent the future she was raised in from occurring. With the exception of the complete death of the town she was born in, she's not someone whose experienced a large amount of anti-mutant prejudice. She didn't grow up with it. So she's aware she's a mutant, but her actual experience of what it means to be a mutant is different from any other mutant whose grown up in this world," Gillen said. "She doesn't have the basic assumption of, 'This is how it has to be.' She may be naive, but on the other hand she's also got this ability to imagine things different from how they are. She has a tempestuous relationship with the X-Men's leader Cyclops, but they both share the idea that they have to work to make the future a better place for mutants."

Hope's experiences growing up in a devastated future and the tragedies she's endured since returning to the present will continue to be a big part of what drives her thoughts and actions in "Generation Hope." "There's a bit in issue 3 where Hope says something inspiring and Kenji responds with, 'Stop this Captain America stuff before we all start crying.' Hope replies, 'Who's Captain America?' She doesn't necessarily know all of the big names in the Marvel Universe. And there's that wonderfully cute bit in 'Second Coming' where she's looking at children's hair clips. So she's aware she's a woman out of time, but it's reversed," Gillen remarked. "Instead of being this girl from the past thrust into the present, she's this girl from the future. She's quite lonely. She's lost her father, and that's one of the reasons why she throws herself into everything. She has to believe what she's doing is all for something. That's why she believes in the future so much. She doesn't want to live in a world where her father's sacrifice had no meaning. She has to believe in something. She's a complicated young woman, our Hope."

"Generation Hope" #3 won't just be about resolving the threat of Kenji -- the issue will also find the cast finally confronting the reality of their new situation. "When people read the first five issues, it's almost like the reverse of the traditional team book structure. We start with the mission and we end things with the team getting together. They're kind of forced into being a team and they work out together who they are and why they are doing this after the fact. In #1 they're very much thrust into a situation where they're not sure they'll get through it. Issue two is full of conflict and where they start to prove themselves. They rescue Hope and do some other heroic things, but really let the X-men take the lead. They haven't had the time to step back yet and ask themselves things like why the hell are we here? Issue three, though, is very much, 'Why the hell are we here?' So the heart of whatever 'Generation Hope' is will be found there in the rubble."

Confronting the reality of who they are means the cast of "Generation Hope" will also be forced to examine the nature of their relationships with the title character. During "The Five Lights" arc of "Uncanny X-Men," the young mutant from the future used her powers to help four very different teenagers gain control of their malfunctioning powers: Laurie, a Canadian girl with the ability to fly; Gabriel, a Mexican mutant with the power of super speed; Idie, a Nigerian girl with the ability to channel temperature; and Teon, a Ukranian whose mutant power transformed into a physically powerful, feral being. Because of the way she helped them, the four Lights are extremely devoted to Hope; some in ways that might not exactly be healthy.

"That's the nagging worry. Everyone has been sort of imprinted on her for a variety of reasons. I think different members of the team are able to ignore it, more or less. We see that devotion start to be actually questioned in issue three. Laurie is by far the most analytically minded of the Lights. She's the one who feels like there's something iffy here. So she immediately starts digging into that. She's unable to leave it alone. It's easy for someone like Gabriel, because he's basically crushing on Hope. It's easy for him to deal with the fact that he's obsessed with her because he's crazy for the girl. Teon, of course, has quite a different psychology. And Idie is doing it essentially through a religious filter," Gillen explained. "So Laurie is the person who's most acting against her normal nature. She's not the type of person to go flying around and save people. She'd be much happier at home with a book, but she's doing this anyway. So she's kind of like the key to the questions of whether this right or wrong? And what does this mean anyway?

"When I was a kid, I went to Catholic school and we did a lot of Bible study. When you got to the initial calling of the Apostles, it was like, 'All right fisherman. You should come with me.' And they go, 'Okay. That's good.' And they go and join him and become his apostles. I remember, even as a kid, reading that and wondering, what would their friends say? What would their families say? What did they think? There was this idea that something big is happening here and they somehow felt compelled to do it," Gillen continued. "So that's kind of where the cast of 'Generation Hope' is coming from. There's this idea that there is this connection between them that they can't deny. The actual nature of the link and how that works interests me, though. What would it be like to be 'called' in a real, life-changing way? That's kind of what's at the heart of all of this."

In "Generation Hope" #4, Gillen puts the spotlight squarely on Teon by having the young, feral mutant go toe-to-toe with Wolverine in a battle for alpha-mutant supremacy. "Teon is interesting because, of all the Five Lights, he's the one who's the most surface, because you haven't gotten any insight into what really makes him tick. He's a little bit more complicated than he appears, because at the moment he basically appears to be about as complicated as soup. He's got quite an unusual mind.

That's what I find interesting about him," Gillen remarked. "Teon is a primal character who's all about aggression and instinct. I'm interested in the idea of instincts; what they actually mean and how we use instinct. How much of our conscious thought is actual instinct that we assign meaning to after the fact? There's an interesting paradox of consciousness in that the signal in the brain which raises my arm happens before the signal of the conscious thought. So there's one theory that the thought signal is a side effect of the action, in which case everything we do is instinct. That's an incredibly scary thing to think about. Teon is an exploration of that. How much can you get by on instinct? And how can you adapt to your current situation in a highly proficient manner? That's what Teon ends up doing

"Also, in some ways he's a controversial figure in that he's somebody who's mind is gone. He's not a mutant whose grown wings or suddenly has big feet. He's somebody who isn't there anymore," Gillen continued. "In a real way, the person who he was before this change doesn't appear to be around. Lately, we've been playing that quite light with Teon, but it is quite tragic. So I want to look at that and the idea of human intelligence. I want to examine the idea that there may be a different form of intelligence with Teon. Plus, yes, there's lots of rooms for comedy."

Gillen will continue to show more of Teon's character in "Generation Hope" #5, an issue that will firmly establish the relationship between the kids of "Generation Hope" and the X-Men leadership. "It's about Hope really nailing down and solidifying what she wants from this and what she's not going to compromise on. It leads to sort of a climax of the conflict that's been going on between her and Cyclops," Gillen said. "It's a special one-off issue drawn by Jamie McKelvie, my old 'Phonogram' partner. I'm really excited because it's always fun to work with Jamie and this is an issue that really plays to his strengths. I really think it's going to be quite special."

For Gillen, the end of 2010 was all about getting the cast of "Generation Hope" together and setting them into motion. Now that 2011 is in full swing, the writer plans on giving his cast a definite direction that will hopefully take them towards the brighter future they're fighting for. "By issue five, we'll have a very strong impression of who this team is and what they're about," the writer said. "From then on, it's about Hope and the various characters. It's about the relationships between various generations of characters. It's about who they can save and who they can't save. They've gone through a lot in this initial story. Now they have to deal with what being a 'Light' actually means. That's where things are headed."

[El Bastardo]

More like Gillen Stinks it Up for "Generation Hope."

[NightBeetle]

ADVANCE PREVIEW: "X-Men" #8 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30277)

http://i55.tinypic.com/xoinwy.jpg

[squeekness]

No Gambit. :(

[JustABill]

He was a thing of the 90's he's died and moved on to greener pastures.

[TheCorpulent1]

He or Rogue are front-and-center on all of those Age of X promos.

[squeekness]

Yeah, but I am wondering, since Carey is writing, if Gambit will do the big fade right away and it will become the Rogue show. :(

[Scourge2099]

Anyone know what happened to Adam X ?

[JewishHobbit]

Last we saw him he showed up during the Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men crossover, Utopia. He was with a small group of mutants who were ticked off but, if memory serves, got beat up or something.

Prior to that I don't think he's been seen since an X-Force annual in the 90's.

I think he was supposed to have been crucified and killed in the Austen Uncanny X-Men arc "Holy War" but the similar looking character was never actually identified. Apparently I was wrong.

[Scourge2099]

He should've been the third Summers brother instead of that punk Vulcan He was a half breed Shi'ar and sane , so Rise and Fall of the Sh'iar and War of Kings would've been more interesting with Emperor Adam.

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, War of Kings pretty much redeemed Vulcan for me. I like that story more and more when I think back on it. The politics of fanaticism on a grand scale. Good times.

[Scourge2099]

Eh, War of Kings pretty much redeemed Vulcan for me. I like that story more and more when I think back on it. The politics of fanaticism on a grand scale. Good times.
He did make a good contrast to Blackbolt when Blackbolt went the xenocide route , but I could never buy the Shi'ar following a human. Adam X was a half breed , but at least he had Shi'ar blood following through his veins.

[TheCorpulent1]

Wasn't Vulcan a halfbreed too? I thought Whatsherface Summers was raped by a Shi'ar or something...

[Havok83]

Wasn't Vulcan a halfbreed too? I thought Whatsherface Summers was raped by a Shi'ar or something...
No. Vulcan is the biological son of Corsair and Katherine Summers

[Manic]

I loved that Gladiator kept getting his ass handed to him the entire time Vulcan was in power. If you ever needed proof that the Imperial Guard didn't believe in what they were fighting for...

[TheCorpulent1]

He seems quite happy with the Annihilators now. I expect much asskickery from him. :)

[Scourge2099]

Wasn't Vulcan a halfbreed too? I thought Whatsherface Summers was raped by a Shi'ar or something...
Vulcan is full human from what I know.Katherine Summers was a few weeks pregnant or something when they got abducted. D'Ken killed her and they put the fetus in an incubation accelerator.

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh. Well, the guy made his way to the throne and started murdering anyone who opposed him in cold blood. I can understand the Shi'ar Senate kowtowing to him. In fact, they actually showed that he was keeping everyone in line with fear. That one senator or admiral or whatever who wanted to speak out against Vulcan in WoK couldn't because he had absolutely no support. Lilandra was the only one who could drum up enough support through residual good feelings from her time as Majestrix, but then the Raptors up and killed her.

[Scourge2099]

I loved that Gladiator kept getting his ass handed to him the entire time Vulcan was in power. If you ever needed proof that the Imperial Guard didn't believe in what they were fighting for...
He did slaughter those Nova Corps members pretty good though.

[TheCorpulent1]

Wasn't that the chick Gladiator?

[Scourge2099]

Wasn't that the chick Gladiator?
The dude Gladiator slaughtered Nova Corps members too. He fought that Shi'ar Nova Corps member and forced him to surrender because the Imperial Guard would've killed the rest off.

[NightBeetle]

ADVANCE PREVIEW: "Age of X: Chapter One" (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30345)

http://i54.tinypic.com/2u6pbm1.jpg

X-Men Legacy #244 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7504&disp=table)

http://i51.tinypic.com/ettlax.jpg

X-Factor #214 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7503&disp=table)

http://i53.tinypic.com/307lxud.jpg

[TheCorpulent1]

Yay, Darwin's still around. I was afraid he'd be out of the book completely. Glad David's still following up on him even though he's not on the team anymore. :up:

Still not interested in "Age of X" in the least, but I have to say, Clay Mann's art is quite impressive. He reminds me of Coipel, and I'm a big fan of Coipel.

[El Bastardo]

I'm excited for "Age of X."

[Specter313]

For those who haven't seen yet, Gillen takes over Uncanny full time starting in April. (http://marvel.com/news/story/15019/gillen_goes_solo_on_x-men)

[runawayboulder]

Yeah, I mentioned that in the April solicits thread. I thought it would take 6-8 issues but it only took 4. Works for me. Hopefully he can turn things around.

[JewishHobbit]

Quesada's not EiC, Fraction's off Uncanny... 2011's lookin' good so far.

[Havok83]

For those who haven't seen yet, Gillen takes over Uncanny full time starting in April. (http://marvel.com/news/story/15019/gillen_goes_solo_on_x-men)
I called it the minute Gillen was added as co-writer. Reaked of the same thing with the brief Brubaker/Fraction team up

[NightBeetle]

New Mutants (UNLETTERED) #22 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7559&disp=table)

http://i55.tinypic.com/6h17ox.jpg

[NightBeetle]

X-Men #7 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7584&disp=table)

http://i53.tinypic.com/sze843.jpg

Uncanny X-Force #4 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7581&disp=table)

http://i55.tinypic.com/vfjltg.jpg

Age of X: Alpha #1 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7563&disp=table)

http://i53.tinypic.com/21j68eq.jpg


Uncanny X-Men #532 Preview (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7582&disp=table)

http://i54.tinypic.com/688sxw.jpg

[runawayboulder]

Deadpool feeding Warren bits of his DP's own flesh to keep him alive?:wow::wow::wow:

[Manic]

Gischler, you son of a *****. You've created a storyline with a set selection of characters, and written excellent dialogue between them.

I take back anything bad I said about you.

[Thread Manager]

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread 347137