Tone for the third film...

[weezerspider]

Now before anyone calls me out saying I want IM3 to be a TDK wannabee, I want to remind you that Batman is not a monopoly for dark/serious storytelling. My biggest complaint with IM2 is the tone. The jokes are great and Iron Man should be much more humorous than most superhero movies, but I felt IM2 never really got serious even when it needed to be. I feel with "Demon in the Bottle" and other story lines IM3 could be very serious while still having the great jokes. Basically, all I'm saying is, the jokes are great, but when its time to get serious, lets get serious. For the most part the first IM did this well. I just hope IM3 does it well too.

[Iron_Stark]

They should go back to the first movie, light hearted in the first act, then serious throughout.

[Lots o lafs]

I think it should get a little more dramatic, as stark is forced to be iron man more and more, he slips into alcoholism.

His life needs to be falling apart, and he needs to fix it.

[hatebox]

If the story allows for us to actually have more scenes with Iron Man than the first 2 movies gave us I'll probably like it.

[Squidboy]

I thought the tone for both movies were great balances of comedy, action, and drama. I really bought someone like Tony cracking jokes in times of peril, because that's just how this character is. They could go for a darker tone, but they would probably always rely on the laughs to break the tension

[kedrell]

Sounds good to me. I don't want an Iron Man film devoid of humor. That is pure death.

[Chris B]

I want them to bring back the depth the first film had.

[Squidboy]

I thought this one still had the heart that the first one did - not many people seemed to think the Rhodey/Tony fight at the mansion was effective, but I thought it was such a sad scene. The fact that they were both fighting in metal suit didn't take away from the emotional impact of one friend having to literally beat the hell out of another to make them realize they're going down the wrong path.

[Superhero 101]

i think the tone should be dark but not to dark. im2 balanced it out well but it was still missing the lightheartedness the first one had

[ross2287]

Slightly darker than the first one.

Should still be light-hearted, but if we're gonna be dealing with Tony's alcoholism, it can't be too light-hearted.

[kedrell]

I don't see alcoholism coming up again. They already paid tribute to it in the 2nd film with the drunk in armor scene. That's about as much as I think we're ever gonna get. If you want a live-action adaption of DIAB, an on-going Iron Man TV show would be a better venue.

[SuperFerret]

Serious =/= dark. Nor did I see any noticeable difference in the overall tones of the two Iron Man movies. I think that the tone is perfect for a superhero movie and should not be changed.

[kedrell]

Here's a guy who gets it about DIAB:

The Plot of Iron Man 3


With Iron Man 2 soundly trouncing the competition in both it's first and second week of release, it's clear that Paramount and Marvel have another hit on their hands. And while the studios begin gearing up for the releases of Thor, Captain America and ultimately an Avengers movie (bringing the supeheroes together with The Hulk, Iron Man and others), Iron Man fans are left wanting even more Tony Stark. Director Jon Favreau has expressed interest in making Iron Man 3, but is only hesitating because of the new restrictions requiring all of the Avengers movies to conform to one narrative, and isn’t entirely sure that will be as much fun. Whether or not he returns remains to be seen. But what is undeniable is the fanboy call for the third film to be a storyline best known as "Demon in a Bottle".

Blogs have been calling for it (http://flicksided.com/2010/05/dear-marvel-iron-man-3-needs-to-be-demon-in-a-bottle/) but I can’t help but think that they’re not quite sure what they’re asking for. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_in_a_Bottle) has a great plot breakdown of this iconic storyline. Effectively, the idea is that Stark’s alcoholism becomes so debilitating that everything is his life crumbles around him and he almost loses Iron Man forever. Favreau has stated publicly that he doesn’t like the idea of making Leaving Las Vegas as a superhero movie. Blogs, like the Flick-sided one above, seem to think that it’s a grand idea.

But Favreau is right.

The problem with the blogs is the same problem inside of Warner Bros. right now when thinking about Superhero movies. The thinking is Dark + Superhero = Dark Knight levels of awesome. The flaw in that thinking is that The Dark Knight was dark because our hero faced a villain so evil and corrupting that it flew in the face of everything Bruce Wayne was able to deal with. It challenged his own non-killing nature. He didn’t know how to confront someone truly mad. But that’s *not* what "Demon in a Bottle" is.

"Demon in a Bottle" is Spider-Man 3. It is our hero become non-functioning and completely unlikable so that he can lose everything before having to fight to get it back again. But you can’t really do that in a movie without turning off your audience like Spider-Man 3 did. Alcoholism of that level falls into the category of what screenwriters call “The Sin of Moses”, that sin against the audience so great that he can never be forgiven and enter the holy land of a happy ending. In the comic, they simply wrapped up his alcoholism in a single issue, then pushed it aside and tried to forget it ever happened. Favreau instead made it an integral part of the character, without going so dark that he would lose the audience.


Iron Man is *not* Batman. His appeal isn’t him wrestling with inner demons; his appeal is that he is everything Batman is not. He’s fun, funny and has a hell of a time with the toys he makes. Wanting to transform Iron Man into Batman to satisfy your own dark urges isn’t good storytelling. Instead, it only betrays both the character and the audience. Favreau is getting it right. He’s walking a fine line of presented a damaged hero whilst making that hero’s adventures fun to watch time and again.

Jon Favreau is thinking of The Mandarin for a third film. I’d go with that. That sounds awesome.


source (http://www.hollywood.com/feature/The_Plot_of_Iron_Man_3/6872074)

[BigCityBoy]

^ I agree! While I don't want the next Iron Man movie to be a cheesy campfest, I don't think the DiAB storyline is necessary for the third movie. It was already touched upon in Iron Man 2 with Tony drunk at his bday party, that was enough right there for me; it satisfied me. I don't think I can take a whole movie with Tony drunk as a skunk. The third should definitely be about Iron Man squaring off against the Mandarin. And the tone should be a nice blend of action/humor/drama like the first movie.

[Blackman]

I dont get about how the drunk party scene touched on Tony being an alcoholic? Just becaus eyou get drunk at a party doesn't make you close to being an alkie. Really if they were going to touch on it they would of had Tony drinking with breakfast and instead of him drinking that chlorophyll stuff in those certain scenes it was replaced by vodka/rum

That being said I think it would kind of be stupid to do it now. I think the time was with the 2nd film with Tony fearing he's going to die, all the pressure from the government, etc.

Tone wise: Should be the first film. Funny when it wasnt to be, but not being overly funny in situations that really didnt need it like in IM2

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The drinking has been slowly building up since the first shot we ever got of Tony. If Iron Man 2 gave us anything, it was a taste of things to come during the party scene, as it felt a little painful seeing him drinking his sorrows away in the suit. I'm really looking forward to them going the whole way through with his downfall.

[kedrell]

It's not going to happen and it shouldn't. As I said, it would work for a TV series but not for a film.

[Iron_Stark]

I agree.

The next movie should focus on Iron Man vs Mandarin.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The next movie should focus on Iron Man vs Mandarin.
You can still do that with the alcoholism. I was thinking it would be great if Tony would be unable to fight the Mandarin at one point, and then we see what Rhodes is really made of, taking on the Mandarin alone.

[BigCityBoy]

I dont get about how the drunk party scene touched on Tony being an alcoholic? Just becaus eyou get drunk at a party doesn't make you close to being an alkie. Really if they were going to touch on it they would of had Tony drinking with breakfast and instead of him drinking that chlorophyll stuff in those certain scenes it was replaced by vodka/rum

That being said I think it would kind of be stupid to do it now. I think the time was with the 2nd film with Tony fearing he's going to die, all the pressure from the government, etc.

Tone wise: Should be the first film. Funny when it wasnt to be, but not being overly funny in situations that really didnt need it like in IM2

Which is all the more reason why they shouldn't go the DiAB route for the third movie. I agree, the time for DiAB was for IM2 when he was dealing with the government, dealing with his health, etc.

[Blackman]

I'm really curious where they will go since basically all of Tony's problems were tied up by the end of the film

[chiefchirpa]

Iron Man or Tony Stark himself should always keep the fun factor. He has to be optimistic, not overbrooding, and keeping his calm facing his opposition. As for the serious tone - this should be carried by the grim menacing but still cool Mandarin. I think Marvel has the opportunity to bring the most badass, serious villain in Mandarin. So we have this contrast of the fun-loving, happy go lucky Tony Stark vs the serious doombringer Gene Khan in a combat for ages

Secondly, tone down the alcoholism factor. I don't want 20-30 minutes got wasted explaining Tony's alcoholic addiction. I could live with 5 minutes Tony in an funny AAA-meeting skit. Just for the record, comics Tony has gotten over the alcoholic addiction. He drinks Evian now. That's FYI for you non-readers. Instead of alcoholism, they could go with Stark's company worldwide success as the flaw. Now Stark has too many bases too cover, and when Mandarin sees multinational companies going against in growing base in China - Mandarin goes for war. Real war.

[chiefchirpa]

You can still do that with the alcoholism. I was thinking it would be great if Tony would be unable to fight the Mandarin at one point, and then we see what Rhodes is really made of, taking on the Mandarin alone.

I would ask a little less War Machine the next time around, because he will take more minutes and CGI cost from Iron Man. But if WM needs to be in it, has to be in his own fight. WM vs Ultimo, IM vs Mandarin/mecha Fing Fang Foom.

[BigCityBoy]

I would ask a little less War Machine the next time around, because he will take more minutes and CGI cost from Iron Man. But if WM needs to be in it, has to be in his own fight. WM vs Ultimo, IM vs Mandarin/mecha Fing Fang Foom.

"A little less War Machine"? Lol, he was barely in IM2, he only showed up in the end. I want to see more War Machine but I agree, WM should have his own villian, if you will, to square off against, not the Mandarin.

[Iron Mandarin]

"A little less War Machine"? Lol, he was barely in IM2, he only showed up in the end. I want to see more War Machine but I agree, WM should have his own villian, if you will, to square off against, not the Mandarin.
Yes,less War Machine! I want to see more Iron Man! Iron man can carry his weight in as many sequels as they care to make. Let's see War Machine do that. Never been a War Machine fan.

[FaT_tONle]

I think DIAB can be smoothly incorporated into the next IM without becoming too dark or devoid of humor. The story lends itself perfectly once Pepper dumps Stark on a personal level. Taking on a villain like Mandarin can also create drinking problems if Mandarin is not only a threat to IM but the entire company. Maybe work Bethany Cabe in there to help him deal with it. But a 100% Mandarin vs Iron Man movie is not gonna work. You need a completely branching side plot that gives us some closure to Stark's personal life... most notably his love life. That is enough to induce a drinking problem, a major one at that.

[BigCityBoy]

Yes,less War Machine! I want to see more Iron Man! Iron man can carry his weight in as many sequels as they care to make. Let's see War Machine do that. Never been a War Machine fan.

Well I'm a War Machine fan and I think he should be in the third movie more than he was in the 2nd, especially since he was introduced in the 2nd movie in the first place. I agree he shouldn't over-shadow Iron Man but War Machine is just as important in the Iron Man mythos as anything else.

[kedrell]

I'd really rather they focus on a 'sort of' adaption of Armor Wars rather than DIAB for the 3rd film. There's just more for all to do in an AW movie. Who wants to see an Iron Man movie in which Iron Man is largely absent from the screen for most of the film because Tony's drunk, lost his company and is living homeless on the street? And yes it would have to be a huge portion of the film(armorless, that is) otherwise it would undercut the dramatic weight of Tony's addiction to just see him get over it real quick like. That may work for a bull**** afterschool special, but only because kids who watch that crap are clueless anyway. That's why I said a TV series would be best suited for a DIAB storyline. You CAN draw stuff out to allow the necessary time for such a story to work in a TV series. But I don't think it can be pulled off in a movie without

A)Being incredi-boring(think Superman Returns, AngHulk level boring) or

B)Being so dramatically lightweight/rushed in it's treatment of such a serious subject that nobody would believe it could be resolved so quickly. Then suspension of disbelief epically fails and so does the film(in a sense I'm reminded of Superman IV here and not for reasons of crappy production value).

[Son of Coul]

They did DIAB with IM2, just replaced the alcoholism with palladium poisoning. All the stuff with War Machine's creation, distancing himself from his friends and hitting an all-time low was lifted from that story according to Favs, just modified for the movie and it worked pretty great if you ask me. Doing it in the third would be rehashing. He's had blood toxicity problems in one way or another, so as Rhodey says, "Deal with it. Let's move on."

I think the central them should definitely be Iron Man vs. Mandarin. The big questions are where to go with the character. Iron Man is unique in that his alter ego is arguably more interesting and fun to watch than his superhero identity. He's already hit his lowest as a person, now what? What about his relationship with Pepper? Rhodey and Stark are pretty much solid at this point, despite their differences in the first two. That's the biggest thing if you ask me. With any of these movies for that matter. Is his arc done? Or does he still have one more thing to learn? One thing's for sure, he'd better stay an egomaniac. That's been a huge part of his character since his inception and is, in my opinion, his best quality in terms of being entertaining to watch.

As for tone, it should stay fairly consistent with the first two, lighthearted with humor but some good serious character beats throughout. However, since this will likely be the last Iron Man solo film in the MCU (unless they recast - and holy **** DON'T recast, just wait 25 years when you reboot the MCU for v.2 or whatever), they should up the ante and make it a little more epic. We've seen Stark defend other countries, defend himself, now let's see him bust this underground terrorist organization that's haunted him for the first two and defend the world. Not an Avengers-type epic, smaller scale but still a worldwide threat.

And one more thing- I really really don't like the "mini-arc reactors" idea everyone keeps throwing around. We saw it in the second and to a lesser extent, the first. So let's try being a little more creative than that. If Thor/Dr. Strange/Avengers are successful, they can very well pull off alien rings even if their alien origin is modified. Who knows where they'll go. Justin Hammer's coming back, right?

[Danalys]

Tony Stark in the films isn't an alcoholic, much as Tony Stark in the early comics wasn't an alcoholic. he's a heavy drinker/partier in the first film until he talks about the next mission being all that matters. he'll excuse himself from parties early so he doesn't get too drunk. In Ironman 2 the drinking is just a symptom of his fear of his own death. He blames much of his unlikeable behaviour on his poisoning to Nick Fury. On some level he's being irresponsible so Rodney will become War Machine. his comment of "people seem to think I don't know what I'm doing" alludes to this.

[kedrell]

Fair enough. But I still think it's as close as we're going to get in these films to DIAB, and I for one am satisfied with that. The basic elements are all there, after all. Tony + armor + alcohol = trouble; and that's what we got.

[Danalys]

yeah demon in a bottle is a story that can only be really done in the comics or a tv show as a small part of his life. the films are too busy establishing his life and likeability and even tony stark reacting to his impeding death wasn't as likeable. some stories no matter how great can't be done on film just because of the nature of the beast when making a franchise. i agree that was as close as we could have expected.