Kryptonians = ancient astronauts?

[Timstuff]

Taking a moment away from the typical casting fare, I was wondering how the Kryptonian race should be depicted in the Superman reboot. Do you think that it's plausible in a movie to have aliens who look 100% human with no explanation at all? Personally, I wouldn't be against having a bit of one. In Star Trek, the traditional "rubber forehead aliens" (which include any aliens who only differ mildly from humans visually) is that humanoid life has been seeded throughout the universe by an hyper-intelligent progenitor race.

In the case of Superman, there's one explanation in particular I could see them using for why Humans and Kryptonians are visually indistinguishable. Simply put, either Humans are a long forgotten colony of Kryptonians who lost their powers, or Kryptonians are a long lost colony of ancient Earth astronauts who gained powers after living under Krypton's sun and environment for millennia. Or, there's even the possibility that Earth and Krypton are both long abandoned colonies of yet another civilization, like New Genesis.

What do you think? Should there be some kind of connection between Earth and Krypton to explain why Superman is physically so similar to a human, despite his physiological differences that give him powers? Or are you fine with just suspending disbelief that the Kryptonians resemble humans despite having no common lineage?

[SuperFerret]

Knowing that Nolan is behind this, we'll probably get an explanation, as unneeded as it is, which will likely kill some of the magic behind the character's origin.

[Zorex]

I don't really think you need to explain it. Personally, I prefer to keep it that Kryptonians and Earthlings never met or crossed paths at any point, and that, tragically, the first meeting of the two civilizations/races is when the last living member of Krypton, a helpless baby, is rocketed to Earth on a last-ditch attempt to save his life.

[Webhead2006]

well the easy thing is to say many alien worlds formed like earth did so humaniod races pop up here and there. then of course we get crazy alien looks too. Then yea it would be interesting if they o about and say maybe kryptonians visited earth in the past here and there.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Taking a moment away from the typical casting fare, I was wondering how the Kryptonian race should be depicted in the Superman reboot. Do you think that it's plausible in a movie to have aliens who look 100% human with no explanation at all? Personally, I wouldn't be against having a bit of one. In Star Trek, the traditional "rubber forehead aliens" (which include any aliens who only differ mildly from humans visually) is that humanoid life has been seeded throughout the universe by an hyper-intelligent progenitor race.

In the case of Superman, there's one explanation in particular I could see them using for why Humans and Kryptonians are visually indistinguishable. Simply put, either Humans are a long forgotten colony of Kryptonians who lost their powers, or Kryptonians are a long lost colony of ancient Earth astronauts who gained powers after living under Krypton's sun and environment for millennia. Or, there's even the possibility that Earth and Krypton are both long abandoned colonies of yet another civilization, like New Genesis.

What do you think? Should there be some kind of connection between Earth and Krypton to explain why Superman is physically so similar to a human, despite his physiological differences that give him powers? Or are you fine with just suspending disbelief that the Kryptonians resemble humans despite having no common lineage?

I've thought about this a bit before but ultimately decided against the connection because, it seems a bit too "Planet of the Apes" imo. I think in this particular story point it would be better to keep it simple. Basically Jor-el seeks out Earth because it IS the closest thing to what Kryptonians are, only it enhances the biological properties of a Kryptonian being due to the atmospheric differences.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Ya know what bothers me story wise?

Something I always thought should be updated. (of course if no origin elements we are screwed anyways)

With the preparation time beforehand and the knowledge of Krypton exploding... Why can't Jor-el build a ship large enough for the whole family?

If I remember correctly it is big enough for 2, but Lara decided to stay with him instead of going with her infant.

I think it would be better if he does build the ship for the entire family. Someone (no it doesn't have to be Zod) or a group of people from the council learn of his ship. They warn Jor-el and Lara to step aside (before they can enter the ship)

Jor-el would take out a couple of guys with some nice Kryptonian moves and scream at Lara to go at once with Kal-el. She then screams "I'm coming back for you, it's on auto pilot for takeoff, we only have a few minutes"

She runs back to Jor-el as he is struggling with a couple more guys. A shot goes off, Lara is dying. Jor-el manages to fight off the other guys. He holds his wife as the planet is shaking more. He then says "Farewell Kal-el, my son." and closes his eyes after watching the ship leave.

The ship then takes off. The massive explosion happens.

[Timstuff]

2x post

[Timstuff]

My idea was that Jor El is a physicist who builds a prototype for a faster than light spacecraft, but the Kryptonian council voted against further funding his project because they did not see the worth in visiting other civilizations. Jor El discovers that Krypton is doomed, and tries to warn the high council. They accuse him of fear mongering to gain support for his project, and ignore him. Since his prototype ship was only built to seat one person, he and Lara decide to put Kal El in the ship.

BTW, was there a version of Superman where the Kryptonians don't actually look very human, but Jor El re-arranges Kal El's DNA to make him look more human so he'll fit in with the humans? That would be a bit strange for the movie and I wouldn't use it myself, but it's kind of interesting I suppose.

[Daybreak_st]

My 2 cents:

To have the extensive knowledge of earth and it's affect on a Kryptonian body then some Kryptonian scientists/explorers were there before.

I think it would be interesting if a few hundred years ago (or longer) Kryptonian explorers set out to discover other habitable worlds. On each world they setup outpost to work from in remote locations so as not to interfere with native populations. The scientists were surprised when they landed on earth and the effects of the yellow sun. After years of exploring all the various off planet expeditions were recalled but the outposts remained intact and cloaked from detection. It's remained sealed for several thousand years.

Essentially the fortress is one of these outposts.

As one of kryptons top scientist and scholar jor-el is familiar with these outposts and places a key of sorts in clark's ship that will unseal the fortress. It also has updated information on all things kryptonian, so once clark places it into the fortress everything is download and it updates the databanks so they included everything including his ships journey to earth and the planets final moments broadcast from jorel to the ship.

whenever he finds the fortress of Solitude and it activates it reveals teh final days of krypton. Perhaps teh final moments were recorded by his ship as he left the planet. A cool holographic view wtih clark experiencing it as if he was there would be visually amazing. Also i like the idea of us as an audience finding out these powerful revelations with clark instead of before him. It would help us relate to the character and understand his reactions to it as we'd be experiencing the same thing similtaneously.


Also the superman suit is essentially an exploration type outfit kryptonians used while on earth. They found that as they began testing the limits of their newfound abilities only clothing that was close to their skin remained intact. They developed the body suits as a sort of second skin and it inherited their invulnerability.

Also as far as motivation for someone like brainaic, i don't think he was Kryptonian in nature but sought out the planets vast information as it was one of the most technologically advanced civilizations ever known.

He once sought to absorb it's knowledge and destroy it as he'd done countless other world's only to discover this shining light in the universe was already destroyed. He's tried to find any trace of the kryptonian outpost but b/c of the cloaking technology he can't locate them. He's sent out countless probes in search of anything kryptonian. Eventually one probe lands on earth and finds clark's ship, (clark is a teenager at this point) and tries to remove the key (which will both lead it to the fortress and unlock its secrets). Clark has an altercation with the robot and destroys it, but recovers the key and begins his journey to discover his heritage. the robot is recovered by lex luthor, reverse engineered and eventually reactivated, it broadcasts its location to brainiac's ship in space, thus leading braininac to earth.

[OwlBoy]

Maybe you can just have a flash of the Starman story where Jack Knight goes to Krypton and teaches Jor-El about Earth or maybe Jor-El gets his star maps from the Guardians of the Universe?

[Webhead2006]

it would be and interesting ideal day, which i think i said to u before about it.

[DavidTyler]

There was a book by James Blish called 'The Seedling Stars' the premise of which was that there were a race of beings who went thru our galaxy planting the seeds of intelligent life on unihabited worlds.

They would take living cells and create beings specifically adapted to the environment they would be living in. For instance, a world where there was virtually no land would have life forms developed to exist in solely in water. I can see where they might have visited a planet like Krypton where the gravity was so intense that it would require the beings to have muscle capacity to compensate.

Of course this is really taking artistic liberties with what that science would actually produce (and doesn't take into account how the sun effects those beings) but it would be a start as to explaining why the look like us.

[dark_b]

i would like a superman movie where the story focus is on superman -kal el.i think its a waste of time to devote minutes or even seconds explaining why he looks like normal humans.

but thats just me.

[SuperFerret]

That's what I've been saying. There's no explanation why there are humans in a galaxy far, far away, but nobody gives it a second thought.

[Rodrigo90]

i would like a superman movie where the story focus is on superman -kal el.i think its a waste of time to devote minutes or even seconds explaining why he looks like normal humans.

but thats just me.

Totally agree.

[Eros]

Oh God, are we really debateing this? This has never been an issue, and its odd that someone would want to explain this in such detail.

[GreenKToo]

I think it will need to be explained why a civilization as advanced as Kryptons didn't use space travel.
Despite the council's arguement that Krypton wasn't in danger, common sense says that a race as advanced as theirs could have been saved.
I mean you would think space travel for them would be as common place as driving to the store is for us.
Could something have happened in their past that banned space travel or something? Maybe they had contact with a hostile race long ago and they decided it wasnt worth it. That would be a good way to introduce Brainiac in the reboot, or maybe even Apolkolips and Darkseid for a later film.

[OwlBoy]

The reason why they never really developed it was that they were by and large isolationist

[Rodrigo90]

It really doesn't need to be looked into. I thought it was pretty stupid in the first movie for the council to frown upon leaving Krypton. The only reason they didn't bother listening to Jor-El's warnings and evacuating the planet was because of their stubbornness and vanity,their incapacity and denial to see mistakes in their work. The council simply brushed of the warnings by claiming Jor-El was under great pressure as Krypton's leading scientist,thus making the mistake in his evidence of the planet being in danger. If Kryptonians were to evacuate for anything ,it would be a last resource from a hostile invasion.

[rob-el2]

My idea was that Jor El is a physicist who builds a prototype for a faster than light spacecraft, but the Kryptonian council voted against further funding his project because they did not see the worth in visiting other civilizations. Jor El discovers that Krypton is doomed, and tries to warn the high council. They accuse him of fear mongering to gain support for his project, and ignore him. Since his prototype ship was only built to seat one person, he and Lara decide to put Kal El in the ship.

BTW, was there a version of Superman where the Kryptonians don't actually look very human, but Jor El re-arranges Kal El's DNA to make him look more human so he'll fit in with the humans? That would be a bit strange for the movie and I wouldn't use it myself, but it's kind of interesting I suppose.

When Brando was first meeting with Donner and Tom.M (can't spell Tom's last name!) he "suggested" that Jor-el in fact should be a bagel or a suitcase and that Kal-el's genes would be manipiulated to appear human. This was Brando's way testing Donner - to see how he would react. Donner apparently passed the test.

[rob-el2]

Taking a moment away from the typical casting fare, I was wondering how the Kryptonian race should be depicted in the Superman reboot. Do you think that it's plausible in a movie to have aliens who look 100% human with no explanation at all? Personally, I wouldn't be against having a bit of one. In Star Trek, the traditional "rubber forehead aliens" (which include any aliens who only differ mildly from humans visually) is that humanoid life has been seeded throughout the universe by an hyper-intelligent progenitor race.

In the case of Superman, there's one explanation in particular I could see them using for why Humans and Kryptonians are visually indistinguishable. Simply put, either Humans are a long forgotten colony of Kryptonians who lost their powers, or Kryptonians are a long lost colony of ancient Earth astronauts who gained powers after living under Krypton's sun and environment for millennia. Or, there's even the possibility that Earth and Krypton are both long abandoned colonies of yet another civilization, like New Genesis.

What do you think? Should there be some kind of connection between Earth and Krypton to explain why Superman is physically so similar to a human, despite his physiological differences that give him powers? Or are you fine with just suspending disbelief that the Kryptonians resemble humans despite having no common lineage?

I have thought about this too. It would be a way to allow for Lois and Clark to be together as partners. There was a story back in the 70's that showed the origins of the Kryptonians. A space ship crash landed on the planet and the great gravity of the planet slowly forced the descendents to develope stronger and stonger muscles to be able to survive. There was also something about the survivors moving massive amounts of rocks that were magnetic or something to get the planet to rotate on it's axis (the planet always had the same side facing the sun) so that they would be able to spread out over the planet. When they first landed they were forced to live near the planet's terminator because the side facing the sun was too hot and the back side was too cold.

I suppose this could be updated to some degree with genetics explaining how the survivors could adapt to a hostile envirnoment at the begining by developing their muscule mass. They could also introduce the idea that over time the decendent's bodies became like a solar panel due to the lower energy coming form the red sun. Over time their bodies would be well adapted to their new home and then if they left Krypton could become like a superhuman in the right environment (like a yellow powered planet with a lot less gravity). And introducing a BattleStar element that both Kryptonians and Terrans had a arrived on each planet form a common source along time ago could be developed.

Not saying it has to but at the very least would make for an interesting "Elseworlds" story.

[Webhead2006]

yea we dont really need to explain humaniod looks cause other scifi things dont really get into it soem times. But if they wanted to do things throughout series no harm in that.

[GL1]

I would give it a one line acknowledgment, and the move on:

Lara of El: Jor-El, are you saying this race has developed on the exact same evolutionary path as ours? That's incredible!
Jor-El: Almost identically, yes. Our bodies utilize energy more efficiently, much more, in fact, but Kal-El will pass for human, at least to their eyesight, such as it is.

It doesn't need or bear extensive explanation without changing what we like about the character. It can be acknowledged for maximum appeal, though.

He should build his own fortress of solitude, or else he becomes a bit of a legacy character, which is not what Superman is about. I do like the idea of Kryptonian explorers having been to Earth before for research though. Perhaps the fortress he finds is just a large cave with Kryptonian house symbols on the walls, and all their good stuff is gone (would be dumb/bad to leave Kryptonian tech on Earth).

[Daybreak_st]

I would give it a one line acknowledgment, and the move on:

Lara of El: Jor-El, are you saying this race has developed on the exact same evolutionary path as ours? That's incredible!
Jor-El: Almost identically, yes. Our bodies utilize energy more efficiently, much more, in fact, but Kal-El will pass for human, at least to their eyesight, such as it is.

It doesn't need or bear extensive explanation without changing what we like about the character. It can be acknowledged for maximum appeal, though.

He should build his own fortress of solitude, or else he becomes a bit of a legacy character, which is not what Superman is about. I do like the idea of Kryptonian explorers having been to Earth before for research though. Perhaps the fortress he finds is just a large cave with Kryptonian house symbols on the walls, and all their good stuff is gone (would be dumb/bad to leave Kryptonian tech on Earth).


If you've seen the all-star superman comic it's amazing view of the relics and what not superman has collected over the years. My thoughts were that if the kryptonians were on earth before and left a base of some sort that kal-el takes over, it would encourage his scientific side as he'd see some of the work/research they did while on earth. He'd see how they collected things adn he'd start to transform this kryptonian outpost into his fortress storing artifacts from his adventures, etc.

[Webhead2006]

valid point day.

[Mr. Earle]

What do you think? Should there be some kind of connection between Earth and Krypton to explain why Superman is physically so similar to a human, despite his physiological differences that give him powers? Or are you fine with just suspending disbelief that the Kryptonians resemble humans despite having no common lineage?
Nice thread! :up:

My opinion has already been expressed by others:
Knowing that Nolan is behind this, we'll probably get an explanation, as unneeded as it is, which will likely kill some of the magic behind the character's origin.i would like a superman movie where the story focus is on superman -kal el.i think its a waste of time to devote minutes or even seconds explaining why he looks like normal humans.

but thats just me.
I agree. I've thought about this a bit before but ultimately decided against the connection because, it seems a bit too "Planet of the Apes" imo. I think in this particular story point it would be better to keep it simple. Basically Jor-el seeks out Earth because it IS the closest thing to what Kryptonians are, only it enhances the biological properties of a Kryptonian being due to the atmospheric differences.This. Jor-El chooses Earth because we happen to look like Kryptonians. Why? Who knows?

We also happen to look like the New Gods, the Guardians of the Universe, Thanagarians, Korugarians, etc. The reason is because we can relate to aliens that look like us and that's why they were designed like that in the first place. There is no need for an explanation. People ate up ROTF, why would they need pedantic explanations in this case? Do we also need to explain why the Joker escapes Arkham every few months to give us new stories?

There is no need to destroy the magic just so that you can explain everything as if the audience would worry about it.

[Mr. Earle]

My 2 cents:

To have the extensive knowledge of earth and it's affect on a Kryptonian body then some Kryptonian scientists/explorers were there before.

I think it would be interesting if a few hundred years ago (or longer) Kryptonian explorers set out to discover other habitable worlds. On each world they setup outpost to work from in remote locations so as not to interfere with native populations. The scientists were surprised when they landed on earth and the effects of the yellow sun. After years of exploring all the various off planet expeditions were recalled but the outposts remained intact and cloaked from detection. It's remained sealed for several thousand years.

Essentially the fortress is one of these outposts.

As one of kryptons top scientist and scholar jor-el is familiar with these outposts and places a key of sorts in clark's ship that will unseal the fortress. It also has updated information on all things kryptonian, so once clark places it into the fortress everything is download and it updates the databanks so they included everything including his ships journey to earth and the planets final moments broadcast from jorel to the ship.
I always found the idea of the fortress bursting out of the crystal to be far fetched. Your idea is a good one, so let me add my own spin to it.

The fortress is an outpost like you said. Clark's spaceship is activated when he reaches 18 years of age and instructs him to find it and so that he can learn about his lost homeworld in this last relic. It is then that Martha and Jonathan explain to him how they found him. Before that Clark thought that he was just a human with powers.

However, this origin for the fortress makes it less personal to Clark, so i thought that it could have been Jor-El's outpost on Earth. With the latest info from K and Jor and Kara's (i hate how she is ignored in comics and movies) hologram program stored in the spaceship, the fortress is updated and brought up to speed with what has occured on K. In later films Clark can discover more about his father and his work by exploring the fortress and its facilities. I'd love to see Clark do some task that Kryptonians used to do with his mother or father by him instructing him. Kinda like Dexter and the visions of his father. Or maybe that would be cheesy.

There is one problem though. If there is an outpost on earth, there have to be others on other planets, perhaps with Kryptonian survivors. How do we solve that?

BTW, was there a version of Superman where the Kryptonians don't actually look very human, but Jor El re-arranges Kal El's DNA to make him look more human so he'll fit in with the humans? That would be a bit strange for the movie and I wouldn't use it myself, but it's kind of interesting I suppose.Interesting idea but.... meh.... It would be cruel to do that to your child, wouldnt it?
I think it will need to be explained why a civilization as advanced as Kryptons didn't use space travel.
Despite the council's arguement that Krypton wasn't in danger, common sense says that a race as advanced as theirs could have been saved.
I mean you would think space travel for them would be as common place as driving to the store is for us.
Could something have happened in their past that banned space travel or something? Maybe they had contact with a hostile race long ago and they decided it wasnt worth it. That would be a good way to introduce Brainiac in the reboot, or maybe even Apolkolips and Darkseid for a later film.A civilization as advanced as the Kryptonians should have mastered space travel and have colonies across their solar system (destroyed by their sun's explosion).
Why didnt others escape? Well...


http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5082/brainiacw.jpg

"Oh snap, your spaceships dont work!!!"

And that's why only Jor-El manages to send out a spaceship.

[Bad Superman]

Taking a moment away from the typical casting fare, I was wondering how the Kryptonian race should be depicted in the Superman reboot. Do you think that it's plausible in a movie to have aliens who look 100% human with no explanation at all? Personally, I wouldn't be against having a bit of one. In Star Trek, the traditional "rubber forehead aliens" (which include any aliens who only differ mildly from humans visually) is that humanoid life has been seeded throughout the universe by an hyper-intelligent progenitor race.

In the case of Superman, there's one explanation in particular I could see them using for why Humans and Kryptonians are visually indistinguishable. Simply put, either Humans are a long forgotten colony of Kryptonians who lost their powers, or Kryptonians are a long lost colony of ancient Earth astronauts who gained powers after living under Krypton's sun and environment for millennia. Or, there's even the possibility that Earth and Krypton are both long abandoned colonies of yet another civilization, like New Genesis.

What do you think? Should there be some kind of connection between Earth and Krypton to explain why Superman is physically so similar to a human, despite his physiological differences that give him powers? Or are you fine with just suspending disbelief that the Kryptonians resemble humans despite having no common lineage?

I absolutely love the Kryptonians = "Ancient Astronauts" that could be fitted into some of Earth's myths and legends of "visitors from the stars".

This is a great idea :up:

[Daybreak_st]

I always found the idea of the fortress bursting out of the crystal to be far fetched. Your idea is a good one, so let me add my own spin to it.

The fortress is an outpost like you said. Clark's spaceship is activated when he reaches 18 years of age and instructs him to find it and so that he can learn about his lost homeworld in this last relic. It is then that Martha and Jonathan explain to him how they found him. Before that Clark thought that he was just a human with powers.

However, this origin for the fortress makes it less personal to Clark, so i thought that it could have been Jor-El's outpost on Earth. With the latest info from K and Jor and Kara's (i hate how she is ignored in comics and movies) hologram program stored in the spaceship, the fortress is updated and brought up to speed with what has occured on K. In later films Clark can discover more about his father and his work by exploring the fortress and its facilities. I'd love to see Clark do some task that Kryptonians used to do with his mother or father by him instructing him. Kinda like Dexter and the visions of his father. Or maybe that would be cheesy.

There is one problem though. If there is an outpost on earth, there have to be others on other planets, perhaps with Kryptonian survivors. How do we solve that?
Interesting idea but.... meh.... It would be cruel to do that to your child, wouldnt it?
A civilization as advanced as the Kryptonians should have mastered space travel and have colonies across their solar system (destroyed by their sun's explosion).
Why didnt others escape? Well...


http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5082/brainiacw.jpg

"Oh snap, your spaceships dont work!!!"

And that's why only Jor-El manages to send out a spaceship.


Thanks, Mr. Earle. I like your additions. I had a similar thought too:


As one of Kryptons top scientist and scholar Jor-el is familiar with these outposts and places a key of some sort in Clark's ship that will unseal the fortress. It also has updated information on all things Kryptonian, so once Clark places it into the fortress everything is downloaded and it updates the databanks so they included everything including his ships journey to earth and the planets final moments broadcast from Jor-el to the ship.

Yeah i never like the Fortress being grown. Also it seemed like a huge waste of space, impressive from the outside but in the inside, only one consol? :dry: Why? That's why the idea of the outpost that he makes his own with experiements and what-not is so apealing, it adds some relevance to it, a place where he can learn about Kal-el apart from Superman or Clark. I also really like you're idea about him accomplishing some task that kryptonians use to do. Like he picks up on some of their unfinished projects as he is the last of his race, and his father was a scientist. I really like that. :yay:

[Mr. Earle]

Thanks, Mr. Earle. I like your additions. I had a similar thought too:



Yeah i never like the Fortress being grown. Also it seemed like a huge waste of space, impressive from the outside but in the inside, only one consol? :dry: Why? That's why the idea of the outpost that he makes his own with experiements and what-not is so apealing, it adds some relevance to it, a place where he can learn about Kal-el apart from Superman or Clark. I also really like you're idea about him accomplishing some task that kryptonians use to do. Like he picks up on some of their unfinished projects as he is the last of his race, and his father was a scientist. I really like that. :yay:[/FONT][/COLOR]Thanks!

Yeah, i really think that Clark should do stuff in the fortress. Maybe continue some K project (that will come in handy against some villain perhaps?), keep a trophy room with things he discovered in space, etc. But he shouldnt do the crazy stuff he did in All Star. I loved that book but its too Silver Age for a movie. They should definitely draw some inspiration from there though.


@ The problem of other outposts and other survivors:
Kryptonians mostly colonized their own solar system (which was destroyed) with only a handful of science outposts in other systems. They called their scientists back for some reason (i havent figured this out yet. A war, or Zod's rebellion perhaps?). Earth was being studied because of human similarity with Kryptonians. Jor-El, the scientist there didnt reveal his findings that a yellow sun turns them into gods out of fear of them abusing that power.

Something like that...

[Webhead2006]

earle yea there is a bunch of different ways they could go about it and it would be interesting to see what they can do to make the fos play a bigger role in future films, and to show off more of superman's smarts and interests in other aliens and krypton and all that.

[Timstuff]

2x post

[Timstuff]

An idea for the FOS as a Kryptonian outpost:

Earth was the first and only planet that the Kryptonians settled on. They recieved a brief transmission from Earth sometime during the 20th century and decided to send a research team to investigate. They found the planet to be "violent and primitive," (most likely this was during the cold war or even WW2) and so they decided to seal off the fortress within a glacier and returned to Krypton, where the council decided to continue their policy of isolation. Jor-El is aware of this outpost, and so he gives baby Kal-El a data key that will help guide him once he inserts it into the FOS's main computer terminal.

The reason only Kryptonians can find and enter the fortress is because they must use their X-ray vision to find it within the glacier, use heat vision to melt the glacial ice, and then use ice breath to re-seal it. When Clark reaches the FOS, inserting the key updates all of the computer systems and allows Jor El to give Clark his messages from beyond the grave. The fortress was not built specifically for Kal-El, but that doesn't really matter since the software now running it was.

[Oddzball]

Knowing that Nolan is behind this, we'll probably get an explanation, as unneeded as it is, which will likely kill some of the magic behind the character's origin.

It's easy: A long Time ago in a Galaxy Far, Far Away, a bunch of middle Floridans immigrated to Krypton. Though they were endowed with great powers, they opted to live on a world which a) suppressed those powers and b) was the primary source of an element that was able to kill them.

;)

On a serious note, if the Proto kryptonians had been defeated by say the Green Lantern Corps (or the Manhunters) and Exiled to this planet, at least you have an explanation for this situation.

[Oddzball]

I always found the idea of the fortress bursting out of the crystal to be far fetched. Your idea is a good one, so let me add my own spin to it.


Or, Atlantis. In Canon still, i believe, Travis Morgan, the Warlord, traveled to Earth's future and ended up elected as President of the United States.

President Morgan dealt with a crisis that threated life on Earth by evacuating the population back to Skartaris back in time prior to his arrival at Skartaris. Well prior.

Anyway, an Air Force Base established in Skartaris was named Atlantis. Time passed, Jets stopped flying without spare parts etc. military's reverted to horses and armor and lances. Castle Atlantis survives and trhives, becoming the kingdom and the the Empire of Atlantis.

Fast forwar to later prehistorical times. An Atlantean colony on the surface of the Earth, an artificial continent is created. (Arion, Lord of Atlantis series) and in this it's established in an earlier age, Sorcery and technology using colony ships went off into the stars. Some returned, some were killed. Many made new homes on distant worlds.

All Canonical DC. This explains without exception EVERY singel human race found on other worlds. Human immigrants from a distant age, adapted to the planets they live on by evolution, super science and sorcery. Triplicate Girls people can triplicate because they were born under a triple sun? (No kidding that was the explanation!) magic.

From Lexorians to Thanagarians to Braalians all can trace their ancestry back to Earth and specifically to Atlantis. Same with any super powers they posses.

Krptonians? Let's discard the reboot of power Girl's Kryptonian origins for Crisis Undone a few years back. She was Kryptonian until CoIE and then was revamped into Arion's grand daughter given Superman style powers by her grandfather and kept in magical suspended animation until the herea and now.

So at least a case for making Kryptonians and Daxamites Atlantean originated.

This is TOO long for the five minutes a movie might have to spare for the explanation, and ties it to too much comic book material both canon and rendered null and void, but otherwise doable.

[Daybreak_st]

Thanks!

Yeah, i really think that Clark should do stuff in the fortress. Maybe continue some K project (that will come in handy against some villain perhaps?), keep a trophy room with things he discovered in space, etc. But he shouldnt do the crazy stuff he did in All Star. I loved that book but its too Silver Age for a movie. They should definitely draw some inspiration from there though.


Yeah totally agree on that, i don't want to him creating life in another universe or feeding a baby sun-eater or anything like that, a little too far fetched for live action but great for the comic or cartoon.



@ The problem of other outposts and other survivors:
Kryptonians mostly colonized their own solar system (which was destroyed) with only a handful of science outposts in other systems. They called their scientists back for some reason (i havent figured this out yet. A war, or Zod's rebellion perhaps?). Earth was being studied because of human similarity with Kryptonians. Jor-El, the scientist there didnt reveal his findings that a yellow sun turns them into gods out of fear of them abusing that power.

Something like that...

I like this solution as well, i was thinking a Kryptonian Civil War of some kind that may have killed a lot of the remaining scientist on krypton so they recalled everyone from the outposts, etc. Also it makes sense for them to study earth and humans and then be surprised by the effects of the yellow sun. I love that angle.

An idea for the FOS as a Kryptonian outpost:

Earth was the first and only planet that the Kryptonians settled on. They recieved a brief transmission from Earth sometime during the 20th century and decided to send a research team to investigate. They found the planet to be "violent and primitive," (most likely this was during the cold war or even WW2) and so they decided to seal off the fortress within a glacier and returned to Krypton, where the council decided to continue their policy of isolation. Jor-El is aware of this outpost, and so he gives baby Kal-El a data key that will help guide him once he inserts it into the FOS's main computer terminal.

The reason only Kryptonians can find and enter the fortress is because they must use their X-ray vision to find it within the glacier, use heat vision to melt the glacial ice, and then use ice breath to re-seal it. When Clark reaches the FOS, inserting the key updates all of the computer systems and allows Jor El to give Clark his messages from beyond the grave. The fortress was not built specifically for Kal-El, but that doesn't really matter since the software now running it was.


You've added some great ideas as well. I love the last part about entering the fortress and the key that updates everything with current info from jorel. I wrote something similar to this in the Fortress Thread. I also like the idea that things were broadcast from krypton to the ship as it left and the ship also recorded the destruction of krypton. At some point Kal-el in the fortress via some form of holographic immersion (maybe like the holodeck?) is able to experience krypton's destruction. I would prefer to see it this way as it would let us as an audience experience it at the same time as clark and feel the full impact of the event.

[Bad Superman]

Lots of great ideas for this angle "Kryptonians as ancient astronauts." If only Goyer would read these ideas. . .

[Last Son]

If that has been said I apologize. Pretty new too the boards. As in signed up yesterday.

As far as the "activating" the fortress with Jor El's key this could lead to other really cool ideas.

What if while preforming his studies in the fortress he were to find something in one of the krystals that Jor El set up to send out a signal to find other possible Kryptonians in the galaxy. Superman then toys with the idea going back and forth and the temptation of possibly meeting more of his own becomes too much and he sends it out. But then of course it doesn't find Kryptonians, it finds Braniac?

Just a thought.

[RachelDawes]

^I like the idea about Superman accidentally contacting Brainiac.

[Last Son]

^I like the idea about Superman accidentally contacting Brainiac.


Thanks Ms. Dawes. And sorry about you being dead and all. :dry:

[Webhead2006]

oddball some interesting stuff there.

[RachelDawes]

Thanks Ms. Dawes. And sorry about you being dead and all. :dry:

Thanks. I'm over it now. :yay:

[Last Son]

Thanks. I'm over it now. :yay:

Well that's good. :yay:

There are some really cool ideas here, we should just have some huge collectivley written script.

[Webhead2006]

i agree alot of us have came up with alot of cool thoughts, ideas, themes, look we all want to see out of a superman film.

[Last Son]

A film written by comic nerds, for comic nerds. :D

[Rodrigo90]

Make Brainiac the Fortress's Super Computer,created originally by the Kryptonians. Brainiac itself could be the nerual network for all of Krypton,and the one within the Fortress is the same programme. All Kryptonian information and data is stored and processed by Brainiac,and itself is virtually an entity,capable of thought and speech, and a secret insatiable desire for gaining more and controlling information. Brainiac could make attempts for Lex to find the Fortress and use him to his advantage,with promises of giving Lex the knowledge to destroy Superman and to bring the World into a new century under their command.

Brainiac first wanting to control digital information,and finding means to control the human mind.

[Webhead2006]

would be an interesting angle, but i still would want to see a phsyical brainiac too.

[Rodrigo90]

Of course. What I like is to combine different elements from each version of the character. Brainiac starting out as a Supercomputer like in TAS,then using Lex to create a body for him,using Metallo as the influence. Another element, Maybe Brainiac himself was once an Alien from Colu,Vril Dox and he attempted to sabotage Krypton. But instead of killing him, the Kryptonians merely used his mind for their own Supercomputer network.

[Webhead2006]

yea that would work.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Trying to put up some newer ideas as we all seem to end up repeating past posts on here for ideas.

To start: I do not like the idea of an alien brain being somehow uploaded to form the computer system Brainiac.

I would actually rather Jor-el has a hand in its creation, and when he starts picking up on certain comments or signs by Brainiac he wants to shut down the project... The counsel disagrees.

Brainiac could even have George Orwell "Big Brother" (from best book ever 1984) type of role. Who knows, it could be mass surveillance for Krypton and goes beyond it's boundaries. Jor-el sees this, and wants a stop to it.

What if they knew of the instability of Krypton's core and created a mechanism making it stable? Just before the planet was going to blow, Jor-el activated the mechanism/system and everyone rejoiced that they were saved.

The only being to have access to disable it, and ultimately destroy Krypton would be Brainiac.

Jor-el sees the signs of this possibility and sets up an escape plan. The craft should be (imho) big enough for all 3. Maybe after Lara sets Clark inside the ship, Jor-el is being held at bay because Brainiac makes it look like HE was the one to disable the system. Lara comes to see what the yelling is, they go to take her as well, and she quickly launches Kal-el saving him before the explosion.

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Yo Timstuff, maybe (if you agreed) we could change the thread title to "Kryptonian Mythology: Ideas" or something to get more people involved? Fun thread.

[Rodrigo90]

I think having Jor-El create Brainiac as a simple SuperComputer,then going rogue and causing destruction is too similar to Skynet.

You give him more of a villain edge to say he was once a living machine,deciding to erase Krypton, then being used by the Kryptonian's for his superior intellect. It makes it a quest for more power,and a long lust for revenge against Superman.

Mixed into that idea of that the Fortress is a Kryptonian Earth base, Brainiac being uploaded into The Fortress's Supercomputer upon Krypton's destruction. Jor-El knowing that all of Krypton's data has been uploaded into Brainiac,but not realising the inclusion of Dox's own history of being a rival Alien and used for the Brainiac project.

[Timstuff]

Yo Timstuff, maybe (if you agreed) we could change the thread title to "Kryptonian Mythology: Ideas" or something to get more people involved? Fun thread.

I'd be down with that. That seems to be the direction the thread is evolving in, anyway.

[Webhead2006]

\S/ that wouldnt be a bad way to go with brainiac.

[Last Son]

I like the idea of Brainiac wanting more power. That's why I like the idea of Brainiac seeing Krypton as the ultimate Knowledge and going after that by killing off every Kryptonian.

Again that is also why I enjoyed something Superman does on Earth unintentionally (attempting to reach out to other Kryptonians or whatever) would bring Brainiac here.

I also like the idea of maybe a sweet battle between Superman and brainiac type character, but it was actually just a drone sweeping earth for brainiac but when Superman destroys it that is what sets off the signal to bring Brainiac to earth (much like they did for the 4 part brainiac series they ran right before new krypton)

[Rodrigo90]

Something to that effect could work. Instead of Krypton being destroyed by the sun, Jor-El should have the readings that the beings from Colu are preparing an invasion,bent on power and destruction. This could work well for Jor-El,who could explain the contrast between Superman and Brainiac. Jor-El telling his son about invaders from another planet wanting power and causing destruction, that Superman should never follow their evil.

Zod could turn traitor and tell the leader Brainiac that Jor-El has sent his son to Earth and about the Fortress. That Brainiac then uploads himself into the Fortress,telling his companions to destroy the planet and telling Jor-El he will look after his son...

You could even have a storyline that implies that Colu kept the city of Kandor alive...

[batlovescatDC]

Perhaps they could make it where the robot (i.e. the robot that Superman has in The Death of Superman and Superman: Doomsday) was in the ship that Kal-El was brought to Earth in. With instructions from Jor-El, the robot went to build a piece of Krypton on Earth and source of information for Kal-El to see but he was not to reveal it until Kal-El reached a certain age. When Clark turns 18, the robot contacts him through the ship and the ship transports him to the fortress, which the robot has been building and installing things in the whole time the two have been on Earth. Clark has only discovered his powers at the age of 16 but now realizes what he must do. When he is transported to the fortress, a message is played by Jor-El and Lara.

Later in the film, the robot is remotely triggered by Brainiac through a connection that he still has with any technology from Krypton. He manipulates the robot and uses the fortress for himself to sneak into Earth's atmosphere without any detection from the government or military. Clark is the only one that knows something is wrong so he goes to the fortress and finds Brainiac there.


I really like some of the ideas I've seen on here as well. This is just one unlike any I've seen mentioned before. I've always loved the idea of Clark having a robot assistant at the Fortress a lot for some reason.

:super:

[Webhead2006]

some interesting thoughts there.

[afan]

Kryptonians as ancient astronauts is very problematic........If Krypton's tech granted interstellar travel, then the destruction of Krypton is no longer the end of the line for Kryptonians, as surely there would be numerous extra solar system survivors. Add to that the realization as stated in S:TM that a yellow sun grants Kryptonians amazing powers, and the pevelance of yellow suns, than we are talking a lot of super-powered surviving Kryptonians. It's just messy.

Now consider this.......
Kryptonian tech allows for space travel, more advanced than Earth's present capabilities, but limited to inter-planetray travel only. The tech, using solar winds as propulsion, is in it's infancy. The voyages taking a very long time.

Kryptonian astronomy has discovered a worm hole just outside of Krypton's system, but much too far for them to reach, at the present level of their space travel capability. It is not known where this worm hole would lead to.

Jor-el discovers the pending destruction of Krypton's system as it's sun is about to expire. He devises a plan to build ships that would ride the intense shock wave of the exploding sun, perhaps propelling them at speeds matching or exceeding light speed, allowing them to reach the worm hole, enter it and escape destruction, to who knows where.

The construction of these ships would require an extreme focus of resources necessitating a globally unified effort basically calling on all Kryptonians to work towards their completion, abandoning all other pursuits, it would in effect put a halt to Krypton's culture, economy and growth. If Jor-el's theories are incorrect, the damage done to Krypton's civilization would be far reaching. Under such restrictions it would make more sense for the council to dismiss his theories, there are after all other theories for Krypton's perculiar weather and or quakes. Of course the council orders Jor-el to abandon his theories and discontinue any experiments. He agrees, but in secret begins the construction of a ship for his family. His timetable tho is incorrect and he soon realizes there is only time to build a small ship, big enough only for Kal-el.

[Webhead2006]

well they could always have it they were space travelers then for what ever reasons they gave up on traveling the stars and the tech just wasnt readily around any more. Sure they could say there might be some former kryptonians from another time who are on another planet and changed through time and all that. So their might be some partial kryptonians around.

[afan]

well they could always have it they were space travelers then for what ever reasons they gave up on traveling the stars and the tech just wasnt readily around any more. Sure they could say there might be some former kryptonians from another time who are on another planet and changed through time and all that. So their might be some partial kryptonians around.

Much to complicated, and irrational. Can you ever concieve of our society abandoning air travel, ocean travel, electronic communication, or any now commonplace technology.

[Timstuff]

Kryptonians as ancient astronauts is very problematic........If Krypton's tech granted interstellar travel, then the destruction of Krypton is no longer the end of the line for Kryptonians, as surely there would be numerous extra solar system survivors. Add to that the realization as stated in S:TM that a yellow sun grants Kryptonians amazing powers, and the pevelance of yellow suns, than we are talking a lot of super-powered surviving Kryptonians. It's just messy.

What if Earth and Krypton were inhabited by the same common ancestor of space travellers though, and it was the millenia spent under the red sun of Krypton that caused the Kryptonians to adapt the way they did, much the way our yellow sun caused us to adapt? On Krypton, they could explain that the poor quality sunlight caused the Kryptonians' skin to become almost like living solar panels to compensate, and when they come to a younger star like ours, they essentially become supercharged-- hence the super powers. IMO that would be a plausible (even if pseudo-scientific) explanation for why Kryptonians and Terrans look identical even though Kryptonians process our sunlight in a different way.

Also, interestingly enough sunlight does enable us humans to produce more vitamin D. It's not too much of a stretch that a race of beings from a solar system with a limited light spectrum would be even more efficient at gaining positive effects from light (assuming that their sun still emits ultraviolet rays, meaning that they would still be able to handle the amount put out by our sun).

[Young Superman]

I don't really think you need to explain it. Personally, I prefer to keep it that Kryptonians and Earthlings never met or crossed paths at any point, and that, tragically, the first meeting of the two civilizations/races is when the last living member of Krypton, a helpless baby, is rocketed to Earth on a last-ditch attempt to save his life.

I agree with this.

[Nathan]

Besides, there are several races in space in the DC Universe, that look physically indentical to humans, with minor differences being skin/eye color or even just pointy ears. So Kryptonians just happen to not have those minor differences.

[FVD]

As for the FoS, I do hope they deviate from the designs from the Donnerverse/Smallville. I really like the layout from STAS/Apocalypse. If they follow from that or something along those lines then I'll be a happy man.

[afan]

What if Earth and Krypton were inhabited by the same common ancestor of space travellers though, and it was the millenia spent under the red sun of Krypton that caused the Kryptonians to adapt the way they did, much the way our yellow sun caused us to adapt? On Krypton, they could explain that the poor quality sunlight caused the Kryptonians' skin to become almost like living solar panels to compensate, and when they come to a younger star like ours, they essentially become supercharged-- hence the super powers. IMO that would be a plausible (even if pseudo-scientific) explanation for why Kryptonians and Terrans look identical even though Kryptonians process our sunlight in a different way.

Also, interestingly enough sunlight does enable us humans to produce more vitamin D. It's not too much of a stretch that a race of beings from a solar system with a limited light spectrum would be even more efficient at gaining positive effects from light (assuming that their sun still emits ultraviolet rays, meaning that they would still be able to handle the amount put out by our sun).

Fine explanation for the powers granted by a yellow sun, but how does this address Kryptonian's as "ancient astronauts"?

[The Guard]

Kryptonians should be ancient and future everything.

[Alientraveller]

Fine explanation for the powers granted by a yellow sun, but how does this address Kryptonian's as "ancient astronauts"?

It's more that he/she wants a Star Trek style common genetic ancestor to Humanity and Krypton.

I was wondering, would it be cool if they combined the time travel element of the original idea for Superman's origin? io9 once wrote an article about how originally Superman was literally the 'Man of Tomorrow', coming from Earth's future and was sent back in time to survive the apocalypse. Perhaps Kryptonians are our descendants on one of many colonies, and baby Kal-El's voyage from the doomed world sent him back through time and space to Earth.

http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/08/20/russell-keaton-supermans-fifth-beatle/

[Timstuff]

Fine explanation for the powers granted by a yellow sun, but how does this address Kryptonian's as "ancient astronauts"?

In this case, it's not the Kryptonians who would be the ancient astronauts, but rather the common ancestor that they share with humans. Each planet is a different colony that moved in different physiological and technological directions, but the fundamental physiology is still there-- we look the same, have the same internal organs, and both metabolize sunlight in some fashion, but for the Kryptonians the latter is done much more efficiently.

[afan]

In this case, it's not the Kryptonians who would be the ancient astronauts, but rather the common ancestor that they share with humans. Each planet is a different colony that moved in different physiological and technological directions, but the fundamental physiology is still there-- we look the same, have the same internal organs, and both metabolize sunlight in some fashion, but for the Kryptonians the latter is done much more efficiently.

I get you there, and I readily accept the concept.
Even without the common ancestor...If an Earth-like planet is a pre-requisite for the existance of intelligent life, and certainly in our solar system that is a proven fact, is the occurrence of similar appearance of said life across the galaxy so extraordinary?

For me it's solely the star travelling Kryptonian that's problematic.

[FVD]

Heck if the Kryptonians were indeed ancient astronauts, perhaps there oughta be some crazy little explanation as to why Krypton is an element on the Periodic Table. ;)

[DorkyFresh]

Kryptonians as ancient astronauts is very problematic........If Krypton's tech granted interstellar travel, then the destruction of Krypton is no longer the end of the line for Kryptonians, as surely there would be numerous extra solar system survivors. Add to that the realization as stated in S:TM that a yellow sun grants Kryptonians amazing powers, and the pevelance of yellow suns, than we are talking a lot of super-powered surviving Kryptonians. It's just messy.

Now consider this.......
Kryptonian tech allows for space travel, more advanced than Earth's present capabilities, but limited to inter-planetray travel only. The tech, using solar winds as propulsion, is in it's infancy. The voyages taking a very long time.

Kryptonian astronomy has discovered a worm hole just outside of Krypton's system, but much too far for them to reach, at the present level of their space travel capability. It is not known where this worm hole would lead to.

Jor-el discovers the pending destruction of Krypton's system as it's sun is about to expire. He devises a plan to build ships that would ride the intense shock wave of the exploding sun, perhaps propelling them at speeds matching or exceeding light speed, allowing them to reach the worm hole, enter it and escape destruction, to who knows where.

The construction of these ships would require an extreme focus of resources necessitating a globally unified effort basically calling on all Kryptonians to work towards their completion, abandoning all other pursuits, it would in effect put a halt to Krypton's culture, economy and growth. If Jor-el's theories are incorrect, the damage done to Krypton's civilization would be far reaching. Under such restrictions it would make more sense for the council to dismiss his theories, there are after all other theories for Krypton's perculiar weather and or quakes. Of course the council orders Jor-el to abandon his theories and discontinue any experiments. He agrees, but in secret begins the construction of a ship for his family. His timetable tho is incorrect and he soon realizes there is only time to build a small ship, big enough only for Kal-el.

i actually really like this explanation.

[Paul-el]

If they do go with Brainiac, I hope we see the Vril Dox incarnation -- he could be so creepy/alien looking. Admittedly I don't know much about the different Brainiac versions. Which is the best graphic novel for Brainiac in a story? One where he really puts Supes to the test.