Where's Angel and Iceman?

[lukedoggwalker]

o rite, Icemans the lil emo kid who "came out" to his family from the 2nd movie and Angel was a cutter who looks like he plays WoW all day and doesnt do anything but catches some guy in the 3rd movie .. so wut are we going to be stuck with 3 mutants we've already seen before who have the most boring powers ever, how exciting.

F U Fox.. i cant believe xmen fans still support these movies being made, this series deserves a reboot more than any other.. i cannot be more unenthused about all these origin movies.

Discuss.

[xmenfilesfan05]

How insightful.

[TNC9852002]

Typical..

[JP]

Ah, reminds me of the good ole days in the X-forums.

[TNC9852002]

What good ole days? :p

[danoyse]

o rite, Icemans the lil emo kid who "came out" to his family from the 2nd movie and Angel was a cutter who looks like he plays WoW all day and doesnt do anything but catches some guy in the 3rd movie .. so wut are we going to be stuck with 3 mutants we've already seen before who have the most boring powers ever, how exciting.

F U Fox.. i cant believe xmen fans still support these movies being made, this series deserves a reboot more than any other.. i cannot be more unenthused about all these origin movies.

Discuss.

You know, just because you can start threads, doesn't mean you should.

[Megaton Sun]

You know, just because you can start threads, doesn't mean you should.
and this is why they shouldn't be allowed to start threads. Plus it'll make your job alot easier.

[illest urban]

Lord.

[C. Lee]

I wonder if Lukeydoggywalky even watched the movies...since he obviously knows nothing of what the actor who portrayed Angel looks like or much else about the movie since he doesn't understand the importance of who he catches.

[lukedoggwalker]

the xmen films are the most bland series of films ever made, and that's sad to say considering how rich and imaginative the comic books were.. they turned a racially diverse team of superheroes and made em into a bunch of pretty clean cut americans. absolutely zero thought or creativity was put into the trilogy or the wolverine movie and i hate to see them take a perfect opportunity and story to refresh everything to jus add on another backstory to an already crappy series, it sux..

they changed way too much that it's not even xmen anymore, the filmmakers, bryan singer included, had no idea wat they were doing, and now it's just all about the money, and u all know it's true..

[BMM]

We get it. The point is, you're not telling us anything we haven't already heard or don't already know.

Also, you can't complain about the X-Men being a bunch of pretty, clean cut Americans, while advocating the likes of Angel and Iceman, not to mention the rest of the Original Five, who are the epitome of pretty, clean cut Americans.

[danoyse]

It's also worth pointing out that most of the main X-Men cast isn't American. :cwink:

[S_H_F_4839]

I think if they are going to be exploring the early years, xavier and magneto will probably both be the team leaders. I think the team should consist of young scott, young jean, young beast, young quicksilver, and young scarlet witch. where you can clearly see where the two factions will break and they could even possibly show magneto trying to recruit hank and he chooses to stay with xavier, the great thing is they really don't have to cover too many recruitments beast's. scarlet witch could be explained by magneto

[TheVelvetOnion]

Angel and Iceman can still appear in the first class movies, involves a little bit of maths and a little of mis-direction but you can have them in it...

Firstly the x-men, the original 5 x-men were never the same age to begin with Beast was always the eldest, followed by Jean and Scott who were a few years younger, then Angel, finally the youngest Iceman who had to be about 10 years different from Beast...

Knowing that in mind, lets say if in the comics Iceman was 14/15 - Angel would of been 17, Cyclops 19, Jean 21, and Beast 23/24 - So the first thing we can take out of this is the first class of x-men was not characters of the same age.

Secondly - using my calculations and putting them into actions the x-men in the movie universe have totally unrealist years ages... see if we were to say how old would each of those five characters would of been if we saw them today, they would be (and this is information taken from a mix of info we got from the movies and info we got from the actors/actresses age)

Iceman - 31, Angel - 30, Cyclops - 37 , Jean -45 , Beast - 55

So as you can see the ages are a little messed up. Jean is way WAY older than Cyclops. So we cant really go by those ages. Or can we?

Say we set the movie in 1992? odd year i know but for sentlemental reasons its the year the x-men animated series started.

So in 1992 if this is the year we watch X-Men First Class from...
there ages would of been.

Iceman - 13, Angel -12, Cyclops -19, Jean - 27 and Beast - 37

Thats not actually that bad, we could work on this...

In the movies Angel's age was never given only that you know that a few years ago angels wings started to appear which we work out as being his teens and if we take Ben Fosters real age it sort of worked out the same that his character was 9 when it started to happen. Which is wrong because the mutant x-gene is supposed to hit when puberty starts so you cant really classify how old Angel was because the dates dont match up... for which we call - Continutiy error... But that maybe a good thing because that means we can then make Angel seem older than iceman by 2, 3 years..

So reveiw Iceman 13, lets say Angel 16. Cyclops is 19,

so we come to Jean, who is 27 by that year. now i think we could shave off 3/2 years off her age making her 25, seems more likely that she was at that school and the gap between her and cyclops doesnt seem so big...

Beast is the biggest problem, as he techiquelly would be 37, so what i figure with him is that we simply explain he knew xavier before xavier started the school, and Xavier sort of inspired beast to do better which lead to xavier himself thinking maybe i should start a school. and Beast became an associate being to old to be at the school as a student but maybe as one of his first teachers and a member of the x-men...

So with that age thing kind of sorted the second question really is how do we explain a younger iceman and angel at the school...

Well its never been fully explained how long Iceman has been at the school and judging the first movie he has been there a while so that wouldnt be too impossible.

and as for Angel, - his many many lines to the x-men was "I heard this was a safe place for mutants" to which Beast said "Not anymore" or i forget who said that...

But my point being is, Angel could of potentially been at the school a long time ago, when he was younger but left to work with his father because like stryker, worthington crn hoped his son would be cured, stryker took other methods where as angels father worked on an actual cure.

So you could explain that Angel had a short role within the first x-men team.

Heres my idea,

we have the original 5, and they go on there first mission which becomes highly dangerous and xavier realises this, after Angel nearly looses his life, he leaves to go back to his father. Xavier then prevents a young iceman from the team until he is old enough to join his fellow team mates out on the field again.

instead we add Storm and Banshee who are around Cyclops age and become two new members, and our story is told through there eyes in the first year at school

[TNC9852002]

Sorry, but...They ruined their chances as soon as they established in X3 that Angel had never been to the mansion before..

They would have to recreate the origin entirely or use a sort of alternate timeline where First Class isn't necessarily a direct prequel to the original series. Like how The Incredible Hulk wasn't a direct sequel to Hulk.

[ALittlePush]

Iceman was a student in X-Men 1 in Rogue's class, so there is no way he could have been a student alongside cyclops. Rogue's age in X1 is "about seventeen" (Storm says this when giving a description of her at the train station) so Iceman can't be that much older than Rogue.(Also on a side note, 8 months pass between Rogue's discovery of her powers and her being at the mansion. It's in a deleted scene.)

[TheVelvetOnion]

You are totally missing the point.

1. non of the characters are initially the same age so they wouldnt be in the same year if you look at it from the conventional school point of view, but this isnt a school for knowledge, it is but mostly for mutant powers, there is no age range only years...

so Iceman, could of been at that school being taught alongside a slightly older angel, really old beast. But the difference is that what he is studying foor.

[ALittlePush]

So reveiw Iceman 13, lets say Angel 16. Cyclops is 19,

Lets do this theoretically. You say Cyclops is nineteen in first class. First class is set after Wolverine. It's been fifteen years between Wolverine and X-Men 1. ("It's been fifteen years, hasn't it. moving from place to place with no memory of who or what you are" Xavier to Wolverine) So say Cyclops was nineteen in Wolverine, add the fifteen years, that would make cyclops 34 years old in X-Men 1. If Iceman was 13 at the time Cyclops was 19, in X-Men 1, Iceman would have been 28. So you're telling me that a 28 year old is going to be studying alongside seventeen year olds. I doubt it. Just accept the fact that Angel and Iceman aren't going to be in First Class.

[TheVelvetOnion]

Actually...

In 2000 they would of been

Iceman - 21
Rogue - 18
Pyro - 23
Jubilee - 14 (However this was based on actress who played her in x2-3)
Shadowcat - 13 (Again based on Ellen Page's version of the character)
Colossus - 19
Artie - 11
Siryen - 12
Angel - 20
Leech - 7

Bear this in mind, each x-men movie in the trilogy was done with a space of 3 years between them, so although Leech didnt appear until x3, in x3 he was aged 13 which i think i saw on the cut clip or something i cant remember. But if you deduct 6 years you have the period of when x1 occured. so the character of Leech would of been 7 during the first movie.

Alot of people has argued that the x-men movies took place right after each other however Bryan Singer stated that in one of the many interviews that he did, the period between x1 to x2 was around 3 years. The reason for this is because he wanted the x-men to be more established and that wolverine had been away for sometime and had returned because he needed the professor help again. Now between x2 to x3 was difficult to figure out however not impossible. I think i managed to work out that the president that was in x3 was obviously different from the president that was in x2, so lets say the x2 president resigned at the end of x-men 2, i dont know spooked by charles xavier and the new president took over. the newer president put into action the Leech-Cure thing which is something he couldnt of done within his first few years of office. Although mutants would be a big key issue he would be facing. Also cut to the fact that you had Beast working with him. So about 3 years would make sense... but to throw in another fact was that the characters seemed to had followed the age of there actors/actresses. The reason for this was Jean Grey, when xavier went to visit her, it was 30 years later, the year for any eagle eyed viewer would of seen that it was 1977, and we have a 12 year old Jean Grey, 12 years old i think was the age of the actor who played the younger jean grey. But if your putting reason to this, the characters in x-men tend to get there mutant ability during puberty which at 12 would seem like a logical age for her character to be. But the brilliant think about a 12 year old jean 30 years ago means Famke Janssen was playing a 42 year old Jean Grey - Famke Janssen's age today is 25 go back 4 years ago to when x-men came out she would of been 41/42 - So from that character alone, we can established that.

X-Men 1 was sent in 2000 and not the far distant future.

X-Men 2 had to be set in 2003 because it was 3 years later the film was made, plus singer wanted there to be a couple of years gap between the story.

X-Men 3 was set in 2006 - because simply doing the math, 42 year old jean grey go back 30 years would of been 12 and played by a 12 year old actor meaning that Jean had to be aged 42 in x3 making the year 2006.

I've put alot of thought, clues and gathered information into my chart.

Now lets go back to x-men first class

Im saying it will be set in 1992

Iceman would be 13 by x-men the movie, set 7 years away he would of been 21, by the time of x-men 3, he would of been 27, and if you looked at how his character was being developled in x-men 3, that generation of characters was getting ready to leave there role as students and become tutors/x-men

It makes sense.

Cyclops by x3 was yes 33, there is a big age gap between the two actors who played jean and cyclops

---------------

Now heres something to think about

If x-men 4 followed suit and we didnt have the wolverine movie, we would of had x-men 4 in 2009 taking place in the year 2009.

Storm - would of then been 43 - she would of probably be getting to old to lead an x-men team.
Wolverine - you cant really count becaue he doesnt age, actually if you go by x-men origins wolverine, wolverines age at that point would of been 177 years old.
Iceman - 30
Rogue - 27
Gambit - 38 (based on Gambit from wolverine movie)
Beast - 54
Professor X - 69
Jubilee - 23

[Abaddon]

Wouldn't mind if they just discarded previous continuity altogether.

[JP]

TheVelvetOnion, there was not a span of 6 years from X1-X3. If anything, the entire 3 movies span maybe 1 year tops.

[chaseter]

When X3 was being made, someone said how long of a time X3 was from X2 and I think they said 6 weeks. I think X2 was a few months after X1. So yeah, I think the whole trilogy spanned around a year.

[JP]

See, that's even being generous!

[JustABill]

Wow. Boring powers?

Jean - Telekinesis, telepathic.
Cyclops - Shoots lasers from his ****ing eyes.
Storm - Controls ALL weather.

Beast is the only rather boring power set. Angel's essentially in his earliest form nothing but a pretty rich guy who flies. Iceman, I have no arguement for. He's got an interesting power.

[ALittlePush]

TheVelvetOnion, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. The actress to played Kitty in X1 was clearly around Rogue's age and not a thirteen year old,whilst the actress in X2 was clearly younger, therefore the age of the actor/actress doesn't necessarily have a bearing on the age of the character. I didn't realise Famke Janssen was that much older than James Marsden until I saw it on the internet, she never looked older. I always assumed the characters were around the same age. Also, I don't think the 20 years ago is from when the film was made, I think it is 20 years ago from the not too distant future, which doesn't give the time frame. The clothes and cars and decoration were chosen to give the sense that the scene was taking place in the past rather than saying this scene takes place in the year whatever, IMO.

There is no way there were three years between X1 and X2. Three reasons spring to mind.
1. Wolverine was going to Alkali Lake and found nothing. It wouldn't take him three years to head to Canada, find nothing and come back to tell Xavier that he found nothing.
2. Iceman wouldn't hang around Rogue for three years if he couldn't touch her at all. I got the impression in X2 that their relationship was a fairly recent development and they were still working out solutions to their touch problem.
3. Cyclops noticed something different about Jean since Liberty Island. A few weeks would make sense for him to defintiely notice a change. If it took him three years to notice and mention it then he is either an extremely crappy lover or completely unobservant.

I believe X2 was set a couple of weeks, if not a couple of months, after X1 tops.

X3 was probably set at least a couple of months after X2 because of the change of president and the fact that you wouldn't call someone a changed man just because they were still grieving for their dead loved one after a couple of weeks.

[TNC9852002]

The actress to played Kitty in X1 was clearly around Rogue's age and not a thirteen year old,whilst the actress in X2 was clearly younger, therefore the age of the actor/actress doesn't necessarily have a bearing on the age of the character.
LOL!

This takes me back to 2002...

The two actresses are actually the same age.

[ALittlePush]

You learn something new everyday.:woot:

[TNC9852002]

Yeah, I remember getting into heated debates over it. Yeah, the two girls look like they could be 10 years a part in age, but no one cared that they were technically the same age. Heck, Ellen in X3 still looked like a 15 year old regardless.. :p

[TheVelvetOnion]

What... if we had the character Icarus to replace Angel seeing as there ability was pratically the same, then for iceman, we simply have Storm before she could fully understand her ability so she could create snow and thunder?

[TNC9852002]

wut

[Electrix]

wut

He is suggesting other characters take up the characteristics and powers of Angel and Iceman to make up for their lack of presence.

It makes sense if you remove all logic and reasoning from the equation :D

[TNC9852002]

No. I understand completely what he's saying.

"wut" is a term that isn't meant to be literal and direct. It's just a term that's suppose to be a way to poke fun of the "reasoning" of what was just said.

[JP]

:doh::doh:

[TheVelvetOnion]

do you have a better idea... i mean, if they didnt have so much worthington reference in x-men last stand, we could of got away with saying Ben Fosters character was Icarus... but sadly he was named warren several times.... Ohh wait i just thought of something...

Thomas Halloway - of course, marvels first Angel, what if instead of using Warren Worthington as the first angel, we have Thomas Halloway, although he didnt have wings in the comic he was initially the first angel... That got me thinking...

Iron Man 2 was good, i liked how they introduced Ivan Venko son of Aton Venko the crimson dynamo and instead of giving him the suit right away they made Ivan have the abilities of another ironman character Whiplash...

What im saying is, does Angel initially have to be Warren Worthington 3rd? or could we look past that? What if we had an Angel character, with Wings, very similar to Warren but is actually called. Thomas Halloway?

Or would the die hard fans be too upset by this?

[bubbadoom]

While I hate the idea of "rebooting" everything just because you are changing actors or the tone of the film, I do agree that X-Men would be the one I would like to see this happen to the most. Not that I have hated what has been done with the series thus far, but it would be nice to see it get closer to the source. Having said that, there is NO WAY that Fox is going to toss out there most successful franchise and start over - it would be like they are admitting the first movies were crap. Just like the X-Men cartoon had a different continuity from the comics, so does the live action movies. Like it or not, that's what we got.

[Phoenix_Flare]

well the character of Angel could go back to X2 when he was part of the script, before he got cut. in the draft he was another experiment of Styrker's and he was supposed to share a cell w/Scott...in that scene it could've been established that Angel was part of the team years ago and he left and how his dad help fund Styrker's work and how he came to be captured...

its not the original 5, but if he was established as a previous team member then he would be in First Class

[henzINNIT]

do you have a better idea...

I do. Leave Iceman and Angel out of the movie.

[TheVelvetOnion]

Actually Angel and Beast would of been in x1 if Bryan Singer had a bigger budget, In one of the original scripts, Beast was a teacher at the school who taught science, he was to be injured early on when Magneto came to the mansion... However the money it took to bring there version of beast was too costly at the time. Angel on the other hand was going to be in X-Men 1 as a small cameo role, mostly as Warren Worthington 3rd, During the scene at the begining of x-men movie it was Warren that was supposed to give the speech about mutants That Jean gave right at the begining, you didnt see his wings and he would of been the same age as Cyclops... Shame really that cameo didnt really cost anything to do but they didnt want to waste the character...

[chromehorn]

I thought the new movie was supposed to be a reboot and didn't have to follow the previous 4 films. I guess I am wrong.

[bubbadoom]

While that might be a nice way to go, I have not seen anything to suggest that "First Class" is anything other than a prequel fitting between the Wolverine solo movie and X1. Just because it's a prequel does not mean it's a reboot.

[TheLongestDay]

I think if they are going to be exploring the early years, xavier and magneto will probably both be the team leaders. I think the team should consist of young scott, young jean, young beast, young quicksilver, and young scarlet witch. where you can clearly see where the two factions will break and they could even possibly show magneto trying to recruit hank and he chooses to stay with xavier, the great thing is they really don't have to cover too many recruitments beast's. scarlet witch could be explained by magneto

I really like your ideas

[TheVelvetOnion]

I think if they are going to be exploring the early years, xavier and magneto will probably both be the team leaders. I think the team should consist of young scott, young jean, young beast, young quicksilver, and young scarlet witch. where you can clearly see where the two factions will break and they could even possibly show magneto trying to recruit hank and he chooses to stay with xavier, the great thing is they really don't have to cover too many recruitments beast's. scarlet witch could be explained by magneto

I had this idea a while ago but it was more loosely based on a probability all four movies would indicate who the first class was made up of.

My idea was that Xavier and Lenshire started the school together and between them found the mutants who would make up the first class... Now to me we would look towards the inital first members being, Henry McCoy - who possibly would be the first mutant Xavier found. Lenshire on the other hand would of probablly found Raven Darkholme first which would explain there strong bond in the future x-men films. Between them they then found Jean Grey making the first 3 members... 4th probably would of been Cyclops who at first refuses but ends up being captured by Stryker however because Professor Xavier was monitoring him he was able to find him and rescue about 12 mutants, out of the 12 mutants rescued were Scott Summers, Ororo Monroe, Mortimer Tombey (Toad), Sean Cassidy (Banshee), Emma Frost, Jason Stryker, Pietro Maximoff and Wanda Maximoff. the other 4 were probably returned to there family. However im guessing Professor Xavier acted on his own in this and when Lenshire learns of what Stryker was doing starts to take a more negative view of humanity. Also im guessing Magnetos doesnt realise Pietro and Wanda are his children. So without having to go through a long story, we simply explain that Pietro and Wanda know that Magneto is there father and there mother had told them of this a long time ago before she was killed. Learning of her death by the hands of people like stryker Eric realise xaviers dream was flawed and Professor Xavier possible knew the fate of his wife Magda and kept it secrete from him all these years. Thus leading to Eric mentoring Jason Stryker making him slightly twisted and warped viewed which leads to Jason becoming the caterlist villian for the movie which xavier created the x-men to handle and Mageto leaves to form the Brotherhood...

[Rac]

Actually Angel and Beast would of been in x1 if Bryan Singer had a bigger budget, In one of the original scripts, Beast was a teacher at the school who taught science, he was to be injured early on when Magneto came to the mansion... However the money it took to bring there version of beast was too costly at the time. Angel on the other hand was going to be in X-Men 1 as a small cameo role, mostly as Warren Worthington 3rd, During the scene at the begining of x-men movie it was Warren that was supposed to give the speech about mutants That Jean gave right at the begining, you didnt see his wings and he would of been the same age as Cyclops... Shame really that cameo didnt really cost anything to do but they didnt want to waste the character...
Those would have been pretty cool, actually.

[TheVelvetOnion]

Yeah they had a really small budget... From what i can remember, beast was going to have an evolving role throughout the trilogy... in X-Men 1 he was going to appear as his more human form, with big feet and big hands... In X-Men 2, he would of been captured by stryker along with a few other mutants from the school and was subjected to testing which turns his more feral like, then by x3 he would of been the big blue beast we love from the comics...

Angel was going to a cameo in x-men 1 as a key speaker at the begining of the film. Then in x2 was going to be kidnapped by stryker and his wings coated in adamantium during his testing which leads to Angel becoming Arch-Angel however i think angel would of died at the end of x2 to make a dramatic effect. He wasnt planned for the story in the 3rd movie they just went that way to get angel in the movie by that point. But originally the cure was going to be created by Dr.Essex laboratory where Dr.Rao would have worked.

Alot was changed...shame really.

[TheVelvetOnion]

Yeah they had a really small budget... From what i can remember, beast was going to have an evolving role throughout the trilogy... in X-Men 1 he was going to appear as his more human form, with big feet and big hands... In X-Men 2, he would of been captured by stryker along with a few other mutants from the school and was subjected to testing which turns his more feral like, then by x3 he would of been the big blue beast we love from the comics...

Angel was going to a cameo in x-men 1 as a key speaker at the begining of the film. Then in x2 was going to be kidnapped by stryker and his wings coated in adamantium during his testing which leads to Angel becoming Arch-Angel however i think angel would of died at the end of x2 to make a dramatic effect. He wasnt planned for the story in the 3rd movie they just went that way to get angel in the movie by that point. But originally the cure was going to be created by Dr.Essex laboratory where Dr.Rao would have worked.

Alot was changed...shame really.

[TheLongestDay]

Yeah they had a really small budget... From what i can remember, beast was going to have an evolving role throughout the trilogy... in X-Men 1 he was going to appear as his more human form, with big feet and big hands... In X-Men 2, he would of been captured by stryker along with a few other mutants from the school and was subjected to testing which turns his more feral like, then by x3 he would of been the big blue beast we love from the comics...

Angel was going to a cameo in x-men 1 as a key speaker at the begining of the film. Then in x2 was going to be kidnapped by stryker and his wings coated in adamantium during his testing which leads to Angel becoming Arch-Angel however i think angel would of died at the end of x2 to make a dramatic effect. He wasnt planned for the story in the 3rd movie they just went that way to get angel in the movie by that point. But originally the cure was going to be created by Dr.Essex laboratory where Dr.Rao would have worked.

Alot was changed...shame really.

which makes me think that if you cant do it right dont do it atall!:oldrazz:

[TheVelvetOnion]

Essentially we would of had a great x-men movie.

Its funny but X-Men The Movie draft script 2 would of been brilliant... Beast was in the movie up until Draft 6 where he was written out...

However they did do some silly things in the movie. They wanted to add blob, he wasnt in the first script idea but they added him as an equel opponante against Beast... however beast was scrapt so was blob.

Draft 2 was the best version of the script.

[Rac]

Draft 2 was the best version of the script.
Is it somewhere online?

[TNC9852002]

Back in 2000, we're soo lucky that we got what we had...It's the treatment of the first X-Men movie that's made so much of all this possible...Maybe First Class will have the kind of budget, tone, and scope close to the original concept that sparked what ended up being the first two X-Men films.

As of right now, it's so hard to get a grasp of how grand of spectacle this movie will provide..

[The Overlord]

do you have a better idea... i mean, if they didnt have so much worthington reference in x-men last stand, we could of got away with saying Ben Fosters character was Icarus... but sadly he was named warren several times.... Ohh wait i just thought of something...

Thomas Halloway - of course, marvels first Angel, what if instead of using Warren Worthington as the first angel, we have Thomas Halloway, although he didnt have wings in the comic he was initially the first angel... That got me thinking...

Iron Man 2 was good, i liked how they introduced Ivan Venko son of Aton Venko the crimson dynamo and instead of giving him the suit right away they made Ivan have the abilities of another ironman character Whiplash...

What im saying is, does Angel initially have to be Warren Worthington 3rd? or could we look past that? What if we had an Angel character, with Wings, very similar to Warren but is actually called. Thomas Halloway?

Or would the die hard fans be too upset by this?

I have better idea, just don't have them in the Movie.

You can't square their presence in this prequel with the first 3 movies and there already several characters to deal with in this movie: Xavier, Magneto, Jean, Cyclops, Storm, Beast, Emma Frost and a villain. Adding Angel and Ice Man makes things too crowded.

These movies are adaptions they don't have follow the comics 100%.

[bhayes]

well i have to agree with the original post. x men really needs a reboot.

i know i'm in the minority but i thought that x3 was awesome conclusion on the movie saga. Storm & Wolverine have to lead the remaining x-men to a climactic final battle. i also like the social commentary in the movie too great acting, great cast. great visual affects, great plot it was just awesome. i also felt they did a great job with the action too.

X3 sorta combines the feel of the comic as well as the ani mated series and the feel of the movie series all in one movie. Kelsey grammer as beast steals the show as well. great acting and so on. i have a few nitpicks but for the most part it was a great flick. it really was.

sure bryan singer would have done something different and brett ratner would be less hated, but i feel like he did a great job with the flick. great conclusion. in x-men 1 we see the begining and x3 is the end.

but in all honesty im shocked at how bad wolverine turned out. i don't blame hugh jackman. i like hugh jackman. he has a great leading man charisma and he could ultimately become a great action guy if he picks the right roles. but the people behind the camera really messed up badly. i don't know who is to blame but they screwed up.

ya know how shia lebouf later admitted that INDY 4 sucked. i wonder when someone will come around and admit this about wolverine.

i liked what bryan singer-brett ratner did with the movies. the 3 x men movies showed that you could make changes to the source material and still get the important elements of drama, action and sci-fi appeal in the movie. i was doubtful at first but i ultimately became a jackman fan. i liked his wolverine portrayal.


but as we all know wolverine is a crap of a movie. i felt that fox was creating a great sci-fi series with the x films. a saga about great heros going on great adventures.

wolverine is basically craptacular B movie with a retarded plot, simply put. they basically ignored everything that we have seen the previous films and watered wolverine down for the kiddies.

They probably should have got brett ratner to do wolverine.

So So action scenes. Poor CGI. Bad editing. ignored too much of what was previously established. retarded plot. and then there is of course there is barakapool. just a huge huge huge step down from what we saw in the last 3 films.

its a shame that bryan singer was unavailable to direct wolverine he would have done it right.

but they really messed up the franchise IMO with wolverine. wolverine does to the x-men franchise what batman & robin did to tim burton's batman movies.

people here have expressed why wolverine sucked and im totally with them.

i can't understand. if the spider-man, fantastic four, daredevil/electra movies can get a reboot when there is really not that much wrong with them why not x men?

i mean its painfully obvious that they completely dropped the ball with wolverine. the cinematics in the video game adaption of the film tell the story better than the actual movie does.

i'm abandoning the x men movies and i'm now more excited about the avengers film coming up.

Kevin Feige mentioned that he wants to create a franchise and that he hopes to take the avengers heros into outer space adventures and take the action to Star Wars level scale of action.

before wolverine i was hoping that could happen with the x men where the x-men go out into space and fight aliens or just ya know epic adventures.

i was open to the x men first class idea but wolverine makes me want to reboot.

but i guess if they did reboot x men, it would be like FOX admitting that they messed up with wolverine. so they are trying to stick with the first class idea.

but hey First Class maybe be a really good movie and it may win us over and the bad wolverine movie won't matter.

[Squidboy]

I had this idea a while ago but it was more loosely based on a probability all four movies would indicate who the first class was made up of.

My idea was that Xavier and Lenshire started the school together and between them found the mutants who would make up the first class... Now to me we would look towards the inital first members being, Henry McCoy - who possibly would be the first mutant Xavier found. Lenshire on the other hand would of probablly found Raven Darkholme first which would explain there strong bond in the future x-men films. Between them they then found Jean Grey making the first 3 members... 4th probably would of been Cyclops who at first refuses but ends up being captured by Stryker however because Professor Xavier was monitoring him he was able to find him and rescue about 12 mutants, out of the 12 mutants rescued were Scott Summers, Ororo Monroe, Mortimer Tombey (Toad), Sean Cassidy (Banshee), Emma Frost, Jason Stryker, Pietro Maximoff and Wanda Maximoff. the other 4 were probably returned to there family. However im guessing Professor Xavier acted on his own in this and when Lenshire learns of what Stryker was doing starts to take a more negative view of humanity. Also im guessing Magnetos doesnt realise Pietro and Wanda are his children. So without having to go through a long story, we simply explain that Pietro and Wanda know that Magneto is there father and there mother had told them of this a long time ago before she was killed. Learning of her death by the hands of people like stryker Eric realise xaviers dream was flawed and Professor Xavier possible knew the fate of his wife Magda and kept it secrete from him all these years. Thus leading to Eric mentoring Jason Stryker making him slightly twisted and warped viewed which leads to Jason becoming the caterlist villian for the movie which xavier created the x-men to handle and Mageto leaves to form the Brotherhood...

Hurm.. this brings about a possibly plothole involving Jason Stryker. It was stated that William Stryker hates mutants because of what his son did to his wife, but his son probably was not yet at Xavier's school if he was still recruiting his students by the end of Wolverine. Unless of course, he was only starting to recruit the X-Men themselves at that time, meaning that Jason's time at the school may have sparked the need for a team of mutant defenders. There's potential for a cool story to lead into the need for the likes of Cyclops and Emma to join the cast, but the writers of First Class should be really careful about how they portray this prequel continuity, so as not to step on the toes of the previous movies.

[ALittlePush]

Hurm.. this brings about a possibly plothole involving Jason Stryker. It was stated that William Stryker hates mutants because of what his son did to his wife, but his son probably was not yet at Xavier's school if he was still recruiting his students by the end of Wolverine. Unless of course, he was only starting to recruit the X-Men themselves at that time, meaning that Jason's time at the school may have sparked the need for a team of mutant defenders. There's potential for a cool story to lead into the need for the likes of Cyclops and Emma to join the cast, but the writers of First Class should be really careful about how they portray this prequel continuity, so as not to step on the toes of the previous movies.

In X-Men 2, Stryker said that his wife killed herself after Jason returned back from Xavier's school.

[TNC9852002]

Well, Stryker's son in X2 looked like he could've been in his fourties, so, it's possible and likely that we were to believe that what happened to Stryker and his son/family occurred during or right before his involvement/appearance in X-Men Origins:Wolverine.

I dunno.

Someone needs to watch all of the X-Men movies back to back and create a timeline. :p

[C. Lee]

I recall some kind of mention of Stryker's son in Origins:Wolverine....but not specificly what was said.

I'm thinking of doing a fanedit that combines scenes from all of the existing movies into one epic story...so I will be watching them all again sometime soon.

[TNC9852002]

I was very close to buying the X-Men Trilogy on Blu-ray a few days ago..

It's easy to pass up on those kinds of things, seeing as I haven't finished watching a lot of Blu Rays that I've had for almost a year. :p

[C. Lee]

I haven't switched to blue ray yet....I'll wait until it is the only way get movies or the cost comes down considerably.

[JP]

I have them on bluray. They look great.

[TheVelvetOnion]

In regards to the second draft of the original x-men script - might still be online somewhere, there was quiet a few versions done. Ive seen two online so far but only heard plot differences for some of the others. But that was a long time ago, try googling it.

--

My thoughts on Strykers Son...

See i figure Jason Stryker was the key to the whole divide, i mean he was mentally warped, even much so that Magneto knew of this... which to me sounds like Magneto had a hand in warping Jason Strykers Mind...

So this is what i get for an idea, Jason Stryker escaped 3 mile island with all the other mutants. I've always questioned what sabretooth did when he was knocked out to meeting back up with wolverine later on.

The way i like to think of it is that when Sabretooth wakes up, instead of heading direct to Wolverine, he goes to kill Stryker however unable to find him starts trashing the place, mostly the lab area where all those frozen mutants were. And somehow his hatrid causes the the frozen mutants to escape. So those mutants which included Jason Stryker found there were with the other mutants that escaped which Cyclops lead to Xavier.

So at that point Jason Stryker could of been amoungst the students that flew away with Xavier at the end. Although this isnt shown in the movie i have a thoery as to why this could of possibly happend we just didnt see him.

Firstly Jason has the same abilities as Mastermind, and could of appeared invisiable during the rescue and stowed away on xaviers helicopter.

Or

When Stryker was arrested the mutants in the lab were awaken but with the high level case against striker and the question of why did Stryker's wife allow stryker to freeze there son. Im guessing something like Shield intervined and new about Jason as being a mutant and Sheild colaborated with Charles Xavier so Jason went into his career whilst his parents went to trial.

So we can see that area there.

[I_am_iron_man]

Someone needs to watch all of the X-Men movies back to back and create a timeline. :p

Wooo :oldrazz: It's hard (and my english isn't well). I don't report "hypothetical" years because i really don't know. But, after watching the four movies, this is the main event:

* Wolverine is born in 1845. He sees his father died and discover his "powers" for first time; he discover Victor Creed is his half-brother;
* Wolverine fights some wars;
* Magneto was a prisoner in WWII;
* Xavier meet Magneto (this is not in the movies but is allude);
* Wolverine joins a Stryker's team, he left some days after his first mission;
* Wolverine lives in Canada along with his girlfriend Kayla Silverfox;
* Xavier and Magneto discuss about a school for gifted mutants (this is not in the movies but is allude);
* Wolverine discovers that Bradley and Wade are dead; Victor kills Silverfox apparently; Stryker's done experiment on Wolverine and he became Weapon X;
* Wolverine kills Zero; found information about Creed by Blob;
* Scott Summers is a teenager and is kidnapped by Victor;
* Presumably Styker has done experiment also on his son, Jason, that he takes on ice...HERE THERE IS THE FIRST PROBLEM. In "Wolverine" it was said Stryker's wife was killed already; in X2 it was said Stryker's wife was killed after Jason's returning from Xavier's school. :doh:
* Victor kills Wraith; Wolverine meet Gambit;
* Wolverine discovers that Silverfox is still alive, Victor and Stryker works together, Stryker has kidnap some mutants and has created a Weapon XI: Wade/Deadpool;
* Stryker has promised an experiment to Victor (but in movies still not happening);
* Wolverine saves young mutants (Scott/Cyclops, Emma Frost, apparently Banshee, Quicksilver, Toad and some other mutants) and fights Deadpool, he decapitates him;
* Kayla died; Stryker cancel Wolverine's memories; Wolverine meet Gambit and don't remember nothin' about him;
* Xavier saves the mutants;
* Stryker was arrested for General Munson's death;
* Wade/Deadpool is still alive;
* Xavier and Magneto meet a young Jean;
* There is all Wolverine's Japan's story (Wolverine 2, right?);
* Victor became Sabretooth (in which mode?);
* First Class is formed. In theory it's composed by Scott/Cyclops, Jean, Beast, Storm and (maybe) Emma, Quicksilver, Banshee, Toad;
* Magneto broke Xavier's backbone and create his Brotherhood along with Sabretooth, Toad and Mystique;
* Angel is a kid, son of a great doctor who search a cure for mutants;
* Rogue is a teenager who discovers his power and meet Wolverine;
* Wolverine and Rogue meet Xavier and his X-Men (Scott/Cyclops, Storm, Jean...We know Beast has leave the team some years before Wolverine's join and he's a political now);
* In the school there are Jubilee, Kitty, Iceman, Pyro, Syrin, Colossus: all teenager;
* Senator Kelly was killed by Magneto;
* Xavier's go in a coma, X-Men fights Brootherhood: Toad and Sabretooth dead, Mystique and Magneto are alive;
* Rogue's hair change in "half-white";
* Wolverine go in Canada to found his past but he discovers nothin';
* Jean's powers became powerful;
* Iceman is with Rogue;
* A mutant called Nightcrawler try to kill the President;
* Stryker wants to start a war against mutants, we meet Lady Deathstrike;
* Wolverine's come back to school;
* Xavier and Scott/Cyclops was kidnapped by Stryker along with some mutants;
* Storm and Jean found Nightcrawler;
* Wolverine, Iceman, Rogue and Pyro escape;
* Brotherhood make an alliance with X-Men to defeat Stryker;
* We learn that Stryker hate mutants, his son Jason is still alive and Lady Deathstrike was an his experiment (like a Weapon ...number here...);
* Wolverine kills Stryker and Lady Deathstrike;
* Pyro joins Magneto and Mystique;
* Jean dead to safe X-Men;
* Nightcrawler leaves the team (but this is not explain in the movie);
* Scott/Cyclops is desperate about Jean's death;
* Xavier and Storm have formed a new X-men's team: Iceman, Rogue, Kitty and Colossus...They fight a Sentinel;
* Mystique is captured;
* We meet Beast and Bolivar Trask;
* Jean's come back as Phoenix, Scott apparently dead;
* The cure is launched by Warren Worthington, Angel escape;
* Mystique was cured, Magneto and Pyro meet Juggernaut, Callisto, Psylocke, Arclight, Kid Omega, Multiple Man...;
* Angel joins School;
* Jean kills Xavier and join Magneto;
* Kitty and Iceman falls apparently in love, Rogue decided to cure himself;
* X-Men (Wolverine, Storm, Beast, Iceman, Kitty, Colossus and Angel) fights other mutants;
* Iceman became "all-ice" like in comics;
* Psylocke, Callisto, Juggernaut, Arclight, Kid Omega, Pyro and other mutans apparently dead, Magneto was cured;
* Wolverine kills Jean;
* Beast is Onu's ambassador;
* Rogue was cured;
* Magneto is cured but maybe cure is not effective;
* Xavier is still alive in a body in cure by Dr. Moira McTaggart.

Ok, there is all basic information about 4 movies. Till now there are only two problems: Stryker's wife effective death and Wolverine's experiment is different between Origins and X-Men 2...

We'll see how they explained all the things...

[danoyse]

I have them on bluray. They look great.

I got them last Christmas, and watched all 4 movies the next day. They look amazing on blu-ray. :up:

[TNC9852002]

You should let me borrow them. :D

[TheVelvetOnion]

i have the movie timeline including dates...

[JP]

Except your timeline is horribly flawed.

[TheVelvetOnion]

No my time line is accurate, its just your perception of events in the x-men movie universe is flawed.

[JP]

No, you're timeline consists of three years in between each film. That is inaccurate.

X2 takes place a few weeks after X1. And X3, a few months.

[TheVelvetOnion]

You have no proof of that other than you think that is what it feels like...

[JP]

Uh. No. Bryan Singer said X2 takes place a few weeks after X2. ANd Brett Ratner says the same thing about X3.

And, in a little thing called "story telling" they both let their audiences know that by what is shown in the films.

Heck I'll give you an example:

Scott: "You know ever since Liberty Island you've been.. different. A couple of weeks ago you had to concentrate to lift a book or a chair, now when you have a nightmare the entire bedroom shakes."

[TheVelvetOnion]

so when did Singer and Ratner say this? because i too have heard of Singer stating that there was at leats 2 to 3 years between x1 and x2... and i'm sure that was on the special feature on the dvd... Ratner confirmed that his movie took place 3 years after x2.

[JP]

No. No, and no. Where are you reading this? Listen to the commentaries on both DVD. Read interviews with Singer and Ratner.. or even easier.. WATCH THE MOVIES.

I just gave you an exact quote of Cyclops stating that Liberty Island was "a few weeks ago". What more do you need? :huh:

[I_am_iron_man]

No. No, and no. Where are you reading this? Listen to the commentaries on both DVD. Read interviews with Singer and Ratner.. or even easier.. WATCH THE MOVIES.

I just gave you an exact quote of Cyclops stating that Liberty Island was "a few weeks ago". What more do you need? :huh:

Confirmed. :yay::cwink:

[TNC9852002]

Shall I grab some boxing gloves?

[danoyse]

You have no proof of that other than you think that is what it feels like...

Obviously he has proof. And I specifically remember that line from the movie as well. JP is correct.

[union_jak]

As far as I was lead to believe....

In the first X-Men movie (2000) it is set in the 'not too distant future'. This is then followed up by X2 (2003), which is mentioned as being a few weeks/months after those events. X3 (2006) is then set another few months after X2, and in the present day - meaning 2006.

All three X-Men movies were set in 2006, with the final events of X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009) being set in 1989 (17 years before X-Men).

[TNC9852002]

That's reasonable. :p

[Squidboy]

so when did Singer and Ratner say this? because i too have heard of Singer stating that there was at leats 2 to 3 years between x1 and x2... and i'm sure that was on the special feature on the dvd... Ratner confirmed that his movie took place 3 years after x2.

So what you're saying is that from the end of X-Men to the beginning of X2, it took Wolverine (a native Canadian) two-three years to FIND (not explore and study deeply, just to arrive at) Alkali Lake before returning home? We saw in X3 that it took Cyclops a few hours to do that by motorcycle, so we know that it's not so deeply secluded and hidden that Logan would have a hard time to find it - it's right off a public road, it looks like, so it's pretty much out in the open, just not open for the public.

[ALittlePush]

As far as I was lead to believe....

In the first X-Men movie (2000) it is set in the 'not too distant future'. This is then followed up by X2 (2003), which is mentioned as being a few weeks/months after those events. X3 (2006) is then set another few months after X2, and in the present day - meaning 2006.

All three X-Men movies were set in 2006, with the final events of X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009) being set in 1989 (17 years before X-Men).

I don't think they specifically tried to put a time setting on these films, so they just kept it vague with "not too distant future".

Didn't they say something on the X2 costume featurette about not using fashion trends as they didn't want to date the film or give it a time stamp or something like that.

[union_jak]

I don't think they specifically tried to put a time setting on these films, so they just kept it vague with "not too distant future".

Didn't they say something on the X2 costume featurette about not using fashion trends as they didn't want to date the film or give it a time stamp or something like that.
I think X3 was set in the present day though, bearing in mind it went back to both Jean and Warren's childhoods.

[TNC9852002]

It's reasonable to assume that the X-Men movies all took place around 2006...I mean, it can't be too far into the future if you're still believing that Magneto was a young teen during 1944.

[Apollo]

If x-men first class is actually connected to x-men 1, 2, and 3. I can't see angel in it, since they screwed his character up in x-3.

but if this movie is not connected, bring on angel and iceman then!

[Project862006]

i think they should ignore x3 and only follow singers continuity

[TNC9852002]

But Iceman would still be there and have to be like 11 years old...

They should do their best with what they have...

[Project862006]

talking more about angel

[TNC9852002]

Well, yeah, but why focus on just him?

[Squidboy]

But Iceman would still be there and have to be like 11 years old...

They should do their best with what they have...

I think he was 12 or 13 in the Ultimate universe when he first started, so that could possibly work out, though I doubt he's supposed to be any older than 20 in X3, so the timing wouldn't really work.

[Schlosser85]

I wouldn't expect to see Bobby/Iceman in this movie, he wouldn't even have been alive when Charles and Erik were young.

[TNC9852002]

Well, most of the other X-Men probably wouldn't been alive either at the time Charles and Erik were "young"".. :p

[ReallyCoolGuy]

Forget continuity. why do we have to have "continuity"..?

It's like a white lie.. you know how you tell a lie and then that lie leads to another lie which leads to another lie, etc..? When you create a pointless cameo in a movie then you have to justify that cameo in future films and then continue to deviate further every time the character is shown...

I'm just saying... Look at the James Bond films. None of those are in continuity... sure, there were a few bad films in the mix but no one ever questioned why a villain who was killed in the early films was later reintroduced... why M suddenly became a female and why the gadgets got more technologically advanced in the prequels...

One of the reasons I could never get into the newer Hulk film was due to the reboot of the origin shown in the credits... there was absolutely no reason to rewrite what was done previously; it didn't take away or add to the story in any way... just let sleeping dogs lie. There is absolutely no reason to go and try to explain every little mistake that was made in the past.

Why can't we just make a new movie without the restrictions that a previous director put in the film?

Put Angel and Iceman in... and do 'em correctly this time... Shoot...

[conan69]

All the X-Men movies take place in only a couple months time.

Where did 3 years between X-Men 2 and 3 come from? It was confirmed to be only a month or 2 a long time ago.

[GREEN =w= DAY]

i have a bad feeling about this movie

all signs point that it will sorely disappoint

F U Fox :cmad:

[Marx]

I wouldn't expect to see Bobby/Iceman in this movie, he wouldn't even have been alive when Charles and Erik were young.

Well, most of the other X-Men probably wouldn't been alive either at the time Charles and Erik were "young"".. :p

That's my concern too. I haven't read alot of spoiler information about First Class, but if they are supposed to be in line with the original trilogy...some of the characters wouldn't even be alive yet.