View Full Version : Discussion: Gay Rights II
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 12:34 PM
I love Wilhelm. He's my bro. But he will go OFF on people invoking the Bible. There are two people on this site who have a massive amount of knowledge about the Bible and use it frequently against Christians. Wilhelm is one of them. Superhobo is the other one.
jag
I've seen Wilhelm annihilate someone who was bible-thumping hard and after that beating that poster never posted in the thread again.....
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 12:34 PM
I love Wilhelm. He's my bro. But he will go OFF on people invoking the Bible. There are two people on this site who have a massive amount of knowledge about the Bible and use it frequently against Christians. Wilhelm is one of them. Superhobo is the other one.
jag
I've seen Wilhelm annihilate someone who was bible-thumping hard and after that beating that poster never posted in the thread again.....
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 12:34 PM
I love Wilhelm. He's my bro. But he will go OFF on people invoking the Bible. There are two people on this site who have a massive amount of knowledge about the Bible and use it frequently against Christians. Wilhelm is one of them. Superhobo is the other one.
jag
I've seen Wilhelm annihilate someone who was bible-thumping hard and after that beating that poster never posted in the thread again.....
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 12:36 PM
I've seen Wilhelm annihilate someone who was bible-thumping hard and after that beating that poster never posted in the thread again.....
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads. Those two live for those kinds of discussions and always have infinitely more knowledge on the subject than the people who are invoking it.
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 12:36 PM
I've seen Wilhelm annihilate someone who was bible-thumping hard and after that beating that poster never posted in the thread again.....
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads. Those two live for those kinds of discussions and always have infinitely more knowledge on the subject than the people who are invoking it.
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 12:36 PM
I've seen Wilhelm annihilate someone who was bible-thumping hard and after that beating that poster never posted in the thread again.....
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads. Those two live for those kinds of discussions and always have infinitely more knowledge on the subject than the people who are invoking it.
jag
Mr Sparkle
09-10-2008, 01:02 PM
Jman, I'm not going to argue with you right now, but you should show tolerence if it's what you are asking for. He has his beliefs, you should respect it, and let him know why he should respect you. You are not going to win any ground by not being tolerent of others beliefs.
Sorry, but I support you with regard to Gay Rights as a Personal Liberty Issue, but I think you should show respect to earn respect.
I'm sorry.
but that's ********.
:o
really, truly completely.
showing tolerance for someone's beliefs has nothing to do with demanding your rights, I think that black people should have the same rights as anyone else, when someone comes around and tells me.
"no, black people are inferior to whites, therefore don;t deserve the same rights"
well, I don't "respectfully disagree" I tell them "**** you, you ignorant little ****"
but then, that's me.
when your beliefs infringe on MY rights, they are no longer your beliefs.
duh.
Mr Sparkle
09-10-2008, 01:02 PM
Jman, I'm not going to argue with you right now, but you should show tolerence if it's what you are asking for. He has his beliefs, you should respect it, and let him know why he should respect you. You are not going to win any ground by not being tolerent of others beliefs.
Sorry, but I support you with regard to Gay Rights as a Personal Liberty Issue, but I think you should show respect to earn respect.
I'm sorry.
but that's ********.
:o
really, truly completely.
showing tolerance for someone's beliefs has nothing to do with demanding your rights, I think that black people should have the same rights as anyone else, when someone comes around and tells me.
"no, black people are inferior to whites, therefore don;t deserve the same rights"
well, I don't "respectfully disagree" I tell them "**** you, you ignorant little ****"
but then, that's me.
when your beliefs infringe on MY rights, they are no longer your beliefs.
duh.
Mr Sparkle
09-10-2008, 01:02 PM
Jman, I'm not going to argue with you right now, but you should show tolerence if it's what you are asking for. He has his beliefs, you should respect it, and let him know why he should respect you. You are not going to win any ground by not being tolerent of others beliefs.
Sorry, but I support you with regard to Gay Rights as a Personal Liberty Issue, but I think you should show respect to earn respect.
I'm sorry.
but that's ********.
:o
really, truly completely.
showing tolerance for someone's beliefs has nothing to do with demanding your rights, I think that black people should have the same rights as anyone else, when someone comes around and tells me.
"no, black people are inferior to whites, therefore don;t deserve the same rights"
well, I don't "respectfully disagree" I tell them "**** you, you ignorant little ****"
but then, that's me.
when your beliefs infringe on MY rights, they are no longer your beliefs.
duh.
danoyse
09-10-2008, 01:29 PM
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads. Those two live for those kinds of discussions and always have infinitely more knowledge on the subject than the people who are invoking it.
jag
It's really not going to do this thread any favors if those two come in and start a holy war.
danoyse
09-10-2008, 01:29 PM
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads. Those two live for those kinds of discussions and always have infinitely more knowledge on the subject than the people who are invoking it.
jag
It's really not going to do this thread any favors if those two come in and start a holy war.
danoyse
09-10-2008, 01:29 PM
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads. Those two live for those kinds of discussions and always have infinitely more knowledge on the subject than the people who are invoking it.
jag
It's really not going to do this thread any favors if those two come in and start a holy war.
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 01:32 PM
It would turn into a "yee-had"
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 01:32 PM
It would turn into a "yee-had"
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 01:32 PM
It would turn into a "yee-had"
cerealkiller182
09-10-2008, 01:32 PM
How? I'm denying no one right, unions, or happiness am I?
They'd be happier if they were married, so yes
cerealkiller182
09-10-2008, 01:32 PM
How? I'm denying no one right, unions, or happiness am I?
They'd be happier if they were married, so yes
cerealkiller182
09-10-2008, 01:32 PM
How? I'm denying no one right, unions, or happiness am I?
They'd be happier if they were married, so yes
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 01:35 PM
It's really not going to do this thread any favors if those two come in and start a holy war.
Then let's leave the Bible out of the thread, then. :)
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 01:35 PM
It's really not going to do this thread any favors if those two come in and start a holy war.
Then let's leave the Bible out of the thread, then. :)
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 01:35 PM
It's really not going to do this thread any favors if those two come in and start a holy war.
Then let's leave the Bible out of the thread, then. :)
jag
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 01:37 PM
My friend is a little freaked out right now because her GF seriously wants to get married in the next year or so.....so gay people stress marraige the same way everyone else does...
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 01:37 PM
My friend is a little freaked out right now because her GF seriously wants to get married in the next year or so.....so gay people stress marraige the same way everyone else does...
BlackLantern
09-10-2008, 01:37 PM
My friend is a little freaked out right now because her GF seriously wants to get married in the next year or so.....so gay people stress marraige the same way everyone else does...
Then let's leave the Bible out of the thread, then. :)
jag
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
Then let's leave the Bible out of the thread, then. :)
jag
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
Then let's leave the Bible out of the thread, then. :)
jag
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
Gilpesh
09-10-2008, 01:57 PM
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
That's cause they don't want to admit that they dislike gay people.
Or are some combo of ignorant and naive to not understand that people are gay FROM BIRTH. And would rather not admit it.
Gilpesh
09-10-2008, 01:57 PM
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
That's cause they don't want to admit that they dislike gay people.
Or are some combo of ignorant and naive to not understand that people are gay FROM BIRTH. And would rather not admit it.
Gilpesh
09-10-2008, 01:57 PM
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
That's cause they don't want to admit that they dislike gay people.
Or are some combo of ignorant and naive to not understand that people are gay FROM BIRTH. And would rather not admit it.
ShadowBoxing
09-10-2008, 01:58 PM
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads.
jag
The Wilhelm-Signal and the Hobo-signal are linked up the Moviesfan-Signal and the Super-Kal-Signal. It's really best not to shine them.
ShadowBoxing
09-10-2008, 01:58 PM
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads.
jag
The Wilhelm-Signal and the Hobo-signal are linked up the Moviesfan-Signal and the Super-Kal-Signal. It's really best not to shine them.
ShadowBoxing
09-10-2008, 01:58 PM
That's why I'll simply shine the Wilhelm Signal or the Hobo Signal when people start flashing the Bible around in threads.
jag
The Wilhelm-Signal and the Hobo-signal are linked up the Moviesfan-Signal and the Super-Kal-Signal. It's really best not to shine them.
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
cerealkiller182
09-10-2008, 02:03 PM
or are some combo of ignorant and naive to not understand that people are gay FROM BIRTH. And would rather not admit it.
To be fair, it does make an hypocrisy of their religion. That cant be easy. But when people are being denied rights, I dont understand how people stick to their guns rather than question their beliefs. even after suffrage and civil rights movement
cerealkiller182
09-10-2008, 02:03 PM
or are some combo of ignorant and naive to not understand that people are gay FROM BIRTH. And would rather not admit it.
To be fair, it does make an hypocrisy of their religion. That cant be easy. But when people are being denied rights, I dont understand how people stick to their guns rather than question their beliefs. even after suffrage and civil rights movement
cerealkiller182
09-10-2008, 02:03 PM
or are some combo of ignorant and naive to not understand that people are gay FROM BIRTH. And would rather not admit it.
To be fair, it does make an hypocrisy of their religion. That cant be easy. But when people are being denied rights, I dont understand how people stick to their guns rather than question their beliefs. even after suffrage and civil rights movement
Gilpesh
09-10-2008, 02:07 PM
To be fair, it does make an hypocrisy of their religion. That cant be easy. But when people are being denied rights, I dont understand how people stick to their guns rather than question their beliefs. even after suffrage and civil rights movement
HEY! YOU'RE GOING TO HELL! STOP QUESTIONING!
So I forget... when exactly did Jesus come down here and preach acceptance and love except when they are gay or of another religion?
Gilpesh
09-10-2008, 02:07 PM
To be fair, it does make an hypocrisy of their religion. That cant be easy. But when people are being denied rights, I dont understand how people stick to their guns rather than question their beliefs. even after suffrage and civil rights movement
HEY! YOU'RE GOING TO HELL! STOP QUESTIONING!
So I forget... when exactly did Jesus come down here and preach acceptance and love except when they are gay or of another religion?
Gilpesh
09-10-2008, 02:07 PM
To be fair, it does make an hypocrisy of their religion. That cant be easy. But when people are being denied rights, I dont understand how people stick to their guns rather than question their beliefs. even after suffrage and civil rights movement
HEY! YOU'RE GOING TO HELL! STOP QUESTIONING!
So I forget... when exactly did Jesus come down here and preach acceptance and love except when they are gay or of another religion?
The Chairman
09-10-2008, 05:38 PM
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
Christ said that if they chose to continue a sinful lifestyle, we still had no right to judge them. (BTW, I'm not denouncing homosexuality as sinful.)
The Chairman
09-10-2008, 05:38 PM
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
Christ said that if they chose to continue a sinful lifestyle, we still had no right to judge them. (BTW, I'm not denouncing homosexuality as sinful.)
The Chairman
09-10-2008, 05:38 PM
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
Christ said that if they chose to continue a sinful lifestyle, we still had no right to judge them. (BTW, I'm not denouncing homosexuality as sinful.)
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 05:47 PM
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
Then that will be their folly if they keep bringing it up. :)
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 05:47 PM
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
Then that will be their folly if they keep bringing it up. :)
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 05:47 PM
I don't see how that's possible when some people use the Bible as their reasoning for their stances on homosexuality and marriage.
Then that will be their folly if they keep bringing it up. :)
jag
The Chairman
09-10-2008, 05:58 PM
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
The Chairman
09-10-2008, 05:58 PM
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
The Chairman
09-10-2008, 05:58 PM
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
I would agree Chair.
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
I would agree Chair.
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
I would agree Chair.
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
I would still like to hear RAMORE's answer to this.
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
I would still like to hear RAMORE's answer to this.
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
I would still like to hear RAMORE's answer to this.
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 06:14 PM
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
I know. :)
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 06:14 PM
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
I know. :)
jag
jaguarr
09-10-2008, 06:14 PM
There's seriously no valid arument against gay marriage that does not involve religion or homophobia.
I know. :)
jag
The Senator
09-10-2008, 06:16 PM
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
Excellent... except I don't believe in Heaven, so what is your point?
Why is it that, in our country, people feel the need to impose their religious beliefs on every single person? Why is it that Christofascists such as Tom Coburn and Rick Santorum believe that our country was founded on "Christian" principles, when there is no mention of Christ in the Constitution?
There is no mention of Christ or Christianity in the Constitution. There is a mention of God-- but that is not proof enough that our country was founded on "strong Christian values." Especially since the bulk of the founding fathers were deists (Deists, by the way, don't believe in the Christian doctrine).
Not only that, but the Constitution implies a separation of church and state. I am aware that this is not outright mentioned in the Constitution so do not bring that up. Moreover, the first amendment ensures us that the government will not endorse one religion over another-- and therefore, the government has no right to cram its crap down my throat and force me to believe in a book I consider to be the definition of "gobbledegook."
As a result... why should I, as a gay man in America, have to submit to a law which is founded in religious principle? When Tom Coburn gets up on the Senate floor and sqawks, "Jesus doesn't want teh ghez to marry!," why should that argument be considered relevant to the laws our government is trying to pass? How can a government which ensures religious freedom allow a representative of this country to base his vote on a bill based solely on religious principle?
Additionally, why should the rights of the minority be left up to the voices of the majority? Why should states be allowed to decide who gets to marry whom, when the majority of the voting populace is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we have this centuries ago, when white Southerners voted to deny rights to the slaves? Haven't we learned from our mistakes that the rights of the few should not be left to the opinions of the many?
Words, by the way, can have different meanings. They can even change their meanings (like how "elitist" changed its meaning during this election to mean "liberal"). Marriage, at its basic construct, is defined as the joining of two people in a loving bond. Why would that bond be any different if one man marries another?
Marriage is not in any danger. We currently have gay marriage in two states in this country, and our society has yet to fall apart. And if those who argue that marriage is a religious institution supported by the Bible, and that's why gays shouldn't marry... then I think there should be a law requiring heterosexual married couples to procreate, considering that is the next step in the religious 'sanctity of marriage.' And those who don't procreate should be stripped of their marriage rights, as a result, if we really want to live under the guidance of the oh-so-mighty Bible.
Finally... if you're a Catholic, I'm surprised you're even reading the Bible, since I was under the impression the Bible has become a taboo subject in recent church history, what with the selection of a man with a funny hat to serve as the voice between man and God, the Holy Trinity, and mandatory confession which seems to go against much of what the Bible stands for. Also, don't throw around that one line in the Bible which mentions homosexuality as a sin... because the context of that one line has been debated for centuries, and the argument you may have can easily be refuted by me in a quick Google search.
The Senator
09-10-2008, 06:16 PM
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
Excellent... except I don't believe in Heaven, so what is your point?
Why is it that, in our country, people feel the need to impose their religious beliefs on every single person? Why is it that Christofascists such as Tom Coburn and Rick Santorum believe that our country was founded on "Christian" principles, when there is no mention of Christ in the Constitution?
There is no mention of Christ or Christianity in the Constitution. There is a mention of God-- but that is not proof enough that our country was founded on "strong Christian values." Especially since the bulk of the founding fathers were deists (Deists, by the way, don't believe in the Christian doctrine).
Not only that, but the Constitution implies a separation of church and state. I am aware that this is not outright mentioned in the Constitution so do not bring that up. Moreover, the first amendment ensures us that the government will not endorse one religion over another-- and therefore, the government has no right to cram its crap down my throat and force me to believe in a book I consider to be the definition of "gobbledegook."
As a result... why should I, as a gay man in America, have to submit to a law which is founded in religious principle? When Tom Coburn gets up on the Senate floor and sqawks, "Jesus doesn't want teh ghez to marry!," why should that argument be considered relevant to the laws our government is trying to pass? How can a government which ensures religious freedom allow a representative of this country to base his vote on a bill based solely on religious principle?
Additionally, why should the rights of the minority be left up to the voices of the majority? Why should states be allowed to decide who gets to marry whom, when the majority of the voting populace is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we have this centuries ago, when white Southerners voted to deny rights to the slaves? Haven't we learned from our mistakes that the rights of the few should not be left to the opinions of the many?
Words, by the way, can have different meanings. They can even change their meanings (like how "elitist" changed its meaning during this election to mean "liberal"). Marriage, at its basic construct, is defined as the joining of two people in a loving bond. Why would that bond be any different if one man marries another?
Marriage is not in any danger. We currently have gay marriage in two states in this country, and our society has yet to fall apart. And if those who argue that marriage is a religious institution supported by the Bible, and that's why gays shouldn't marry... then I think there should be a law requiring heterosexual married couples to procreate, considering that is the next step in the religious 'sanctity of marriage.' And those who don't procreate should be stripped of their marriage rights, as a result, if we really want to live under the guidance of the oh-so-mighty Bible.
Finally... if you're a Catholic, I'm surprised you're even reading the Bible, since I was under the impression the Bible has become a taboo subject in recent church history, what with the selection of a man with a funny hat to serve as the voice between man and God, the Holy Trinity, and mandatory confession which seems to go against much of what the Bible stands for. Also, don't throw around that one line in the Bible which mentions homosexuality as a sin... because the context of that one line has been debated for centuries, and the argument you may have can easily be refuted by me in a quick Google search.
The Senator
09-10-2008, 06:16 PM
I'm not judging anyone that's not my place.
If your a Catholic then you know in the bible it says homosexuality is a sin and that God detest it.
They can be happy together in a union with rights they just shouldn't be calling it marriage IMHO.
Christ most certainly did not preach let them be happy now and burn later. I want as many people in Heaven with me as possible is that a bad thing? I'm not preaching at anyone.
Excellent... except I don't believe in Heaven, so what is your point?
Why is it that, in our country, people feel the need to impose their religious beliefs on every single person? Why is it that Christofascists such as Tom Coburn and Rick Santorum believe that our country was founded on "Christian" principles, when there is no mention of Christ in the Constitution?
There is no mention of Christ or Christianity in the Constitution. There is a mention of God-- but that is not proof enough that our country was founded on "strong Christian values." Especially since the bulk of the founding fathers were deists (Deists, by the way, don't believe in the Christian doctrine).
Not only that, but the Constitution implies a separation of church and state. I am aware that this is not outright mentioned in the Constitution so do not bring that up. Moreover, the first amendment ensures us that the government will not endorse one religion over another-- and therefore, the government has no right to cram its crap down my throat and force me to believe in a book I consider to be the definition of "gobbledegook."
As a result... why should I, as a gay man in America, have to submit to a law which is founded in religious principle? When Tom Coburn gets up on the Senate floor and sqawks, "Jesus doesn't want teh ghez to marry!," why should that argument be considered relevant to the laws our government is trying to pass? How can a government which ensures religious freedom allow a representative of this country to base his vote on a bill based solely on religious principle?
Additionally, why should the rights of the minority be left up to the voices of the majority? Why should states be allowed to decide who gets to marry whom, when the majority of the voting populace is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we have this centuries ago, when white Southerners voted to deny rights to the slaves? Haven't we learned from our mistakes that the rights of the few should not be left to the opinions of the many?
Words, by the way, can have different meanings. They can even change their meanings (like how "elitist" changed its meaning during this election to mean "liberal"). Marriage, at its basic construct, is defined as the joining of two people in a loving bond. Why would that bond be any different if one man marries another?
Marriage is not in any danger. We currently have gay marriage in two states in this country, and our society has yet to fall apart. And if those who argue that marriage is a religious institution supported by the Bible, and that's why gays shouldn't marry... then I think there should be a law requiring heterosexual married couples to procreate, considering that is the next step in the religious 'sanctity of marriage.' And those who don't procreate should be stripped of their marriage rights, as a result, if we really want to live under the guidance of the oh-so-mighty Bible.
Finally... if you're a Catholic, I'm surprised you're even reading the Bible, since I was under the impression the Bible has become a taboo subject in recent church history, what with the selection of a man with a funny hat to serve as the voice between man and God, the Holy Trinity, and mandatory confession which seems to go against much of what the Bible stands for. Also, don't throw around that one line in the Bible which mentions homosexuality as a sin... because the context of that one line has been debated for centuries, and the argument you may have can easily be refuted by me in a quick Google search.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:10 PM
What harm does it cause calling it marriage?
But it's not marriage. It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is. I dunno it's hard to explain without sounding like an insensitive ass.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:10 PM
What harm does it cause calling it marriage?
But it's not marriage. It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is. I dunno it's hard to explain without sounding like an insensitive ass.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:10 PM
What harm does it cause calling it marriage?
But it's not marriage. It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is. I dunno it's hard to explain without sounding like an insensitive ass.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:15 PM
I'm Catholic and I have no problem with gay couples having the right to marry. Yes, the Bible says one thing, but at the end of the day the book was written by man--not by God himself, and the laws of this country are supposed to separate church and state. The Bible shouldn't factor in to who can and can't get married in this country.
What bothers me is when the President of the United States decides to hold a press conference on the White House lawn talking about how he's going to create a constitutional amendment restricting rights from fellow citizens in a document that's supposed to proclaim that 'all men are created equal.'
That's disturbing and offensive to anyone who values the rights and freedoms of this country.
And if there is a heaven, I would love to be a fly in the wall when that subject is brought up when our soon-to-be former President arrives there himself.
It's hard for me to take you as a serious Catholic when you don't believe the bible.
No one is trying to deny anyone rights what they are doing is not marriage.
I'm sure he'll get his talking to for a great many things like all of us but that won't be one of them IMO.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:15 PM
I'm Catholic and I have no problem with gay couples having the right to marry. Yes, the Bible says one thing, but at the end of the day the book was written by man--not by God himself, and the laws of this country are supposed to separate church and state. The Bible shouldn't factor in to who can and can't get married in this country.
What bothers me is when the President of the United States decides to hold a press conference on the White House lawn talking about how he's going to create a constitutional amendment restricting rights from fellow citizens in a document that's supposed to proclaim that 'all men are created equal.'
That's disturbing and offensive to anyone who values the rights and freedoms of this country.
And if there is a heaven, I would love to be a fly in the wall when that subject is brought up when our soon-to-be former President arrives there himself.
It's hard for me to take you as a serious Catholic when you don't believe the bible.
No one is trying to deny anyone rights what they are doing is not marriage.
I'm sure he'll get his talking to for a great many things like all of us but that won't be one of them IMO.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:15 PM
I'm Catholic and I have no problem with gay couples having the right to marry. Yes, the Bible says one thing, but at the end of the day the book was written by man--not by God himself, and the laws of this country are supposed to separate church and state. The Bible shouldn't factor in to who can and can't get married in this country.
What bothers me is when the President of the United States decides to hold a press conference on the White House lawn talking about how he's going to create a constitutional amendment restricting rights from fellow citizens in a document that's supposed to proclaim that 'all men are created equal.'
That's disturbing and offensive to anyone who values the rights and freedoms of this country.
And if there is a heaven, I would love to be a fly in the wall when that subject is brought up when our soon-to-be former President arrives there himself.
It's hard for me to take you as a serious Catholic when you don't believe the bible.
No one is trying to deny anyone rights what they are doing is not marriage.
I'm sure he'll get his talking to for a great many things like all of us but that won't be one of them IMO.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:17 PM
But it's not marriage. It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is. I dunno it's hard to explain without sounding like an insensitive ass.
1) Homosexuality isn't a choice.
2) A holy union of two people... what's that called? Um.... oh, yes... marriage.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:17 PM
But it's not marriage. It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is. I dunno it's hard to explain without sounding like an insensitive ass.
1) Homosexuality isn't a choice.
2) A holy union of two people... what's that called? Um.... oh, yes... marriage.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:17 PM
But it's not marriage. It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is. I dunno it's hard to explain without sounding like an insensitive ass.
1) Homosexuality isn't a choice.
2) A holy union of two people... what's that called? Um.... oh, yes... marriage.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:21 PM
It's hard for me to take you as a serious Catholic when you don't believe the bible.
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
No one is trying to deny anyone rights what they are doing is not marriage.
For all intents and purposes it is marriage but you refuse to allow it the title because of one element.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:21 PM
It's hard for me to take you as a serious Catholic when you don't believe the bible.
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
No one is trying to deny anyone rights what they are doing is not marriage.
For all intents and purposes it is marriage but you refuse to allow it the title because of one element.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:21 PM
It's hard for me to take you as a serious Catholic when you don't believe the bible.
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
No one is trying to deny anyone rights what they are doing is not marriage.
For all intents and purposes it is marriage but you refuse to allow it the title because of one element.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:22 PM
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
Actually what I think I said was:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
How is it Judging the book I consider truth says it's not good? Not my opiinon truth.
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:22 PM
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
Actually what I think I said was:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
How is it Judging the book I consider truth says it's not good? Not my opiinon truth.
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:22 PM
When you are saying that 'gays convince themselves that they are born that way in an attempt to justify the way they are to the rest of the world', that is judging. When you say that you are opposed to gay marriage because 'it says in the bible that man shall not lie with another man', that is judging. I guess the next obvious question would be - are you personally opposed to gay marriage, or would you advocate and support a constitutional ban on gay marriage? It's one thing to personally be against it, it's quite another to support a discriminatory belief being written into legislation.
Actually what I think I said was:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
How is it Judging the book I consider truth says it's not good? Not my opiinon truth.
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 12:24 PM
But it's not marriage.
According to you, and who are you and your beliefs to dicate how other people live?
It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is.
Once again, that is entirely your belief...Believing in something doesn't make it so
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 12:24 PM
But it's not marriage.
According to you, and who are you and your beliefs to dicate how other people live?
It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is.
Once again, that is entirely your belief...Believing in something doesn't make it so
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 12:24 PM
But it's not marriage.
According to you, and who are you and your beliefs to dicate how other people live?
It makes it sound like an Ok choice and I don't think it is.
Once again, that is entirely your belief...Believing in something doesn't make it so
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Christ said that if they chose to continue a sinful lifestyle, we still had no right to judge them. (BTW, I'm not denouncing homosexuality as sinful.)
Sure repent turn away from and ask for forgiveness and God will give it to you. I'm not Judging, God will be later.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Christ said that if they chose to continue a sinful lifestyle, we still had no right to judge them. (BTW, I'm not denouncing homosexuality as sinful.)
Sure repent turn away from and ask for forgiveness and God will give it to you. I'm not Judging, God will be later.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Christ said that if they chose to continue a sinful lifestyle, we still had no right to judge them. (BTW, I'm not denouncing homosexuality as sinful.)
Sure repent turn away from and ask for forgiveness and God will give it to you. I'm not Judging, God will be later.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage andI would support a constitutional ban.
oxymoron
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage andI would support a constitutional ban.
oxymoron
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage andI would support a constitutional ban.
oxymoron
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I would still like to hear RAMORE's answer to this.
Sorry i'm not on here 24/7 but I will answer questions directed at me as soon as I see them.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I would still like to hear RAMORE's answer to this.
Sorry i'm not on here 24/7 but I will answer questions directed at me as soon as I see them.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I would still like to hear RAMORE's answer to this.
Sorry i'm not on here 24/7 but I will answer questions directed at me as soon as I see them.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:26 PM
If I believed that a Cigarette Lighter orbiting Mars created and controls everything in the universe, wouldn't people think I was off my rocker? Bat-**** crazy?
Why is it that believing in a magical being which sits over us in a cloud palace, who created the universe in seven days with a wrinkle of the nose and snap of the fingers, any different? :huh:
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:26 PM
If I believed that a Cigarette Lighter orbiting Mars created and controls everything in the universe, wouldn't people think I was off my rocker? Bat-**** crazy?
Why is it that believing in a magical being which sits over us in a cloud palace, who created the universe in seven days with a wrinkle of the nose and snap of the fingers, any different? :huh:
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:26 PM
If I believed that a Cigarette Lighter orbiting Mars created and controls everything in the universe, wouldn't people think I was off my rocker? Bat-**** crazy?
Why is it that believing in a magical being which sits over us in a cloud palace, who created the universe in seven days with a wrinkle of the nose and snap of the fingers, any different? :huh:
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
I see. So you're in favor of writing discrimination into the Constitution?
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
I see. So you're in favor of writing discrimination into the Constitution?
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
I see. So you're in favor of writing discrimination into the Constitution?
Gilpesh
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
Ramore... stop bible thumping and just admit you dislike gay people.
Stop blaming God for your personal beliefs.
Gilpesh
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
Ramore... stop bible thumping and just admit you dislike gay people.
Stop blaming God for your personal beliefs.
Gilpesh
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
Ramore... stop bible thumping and just admit you dislike gay people.
Stop blaming God for your personal beliefs.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:31 PM
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
For all intents and purposes it is marriage but you refuse to allow it the title because of one element.
Absolute Truth cannot become obsolete.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:31 PM
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
For all intents and purposes it is marriage but you refuse to allow it the title because of one element.
Absolute Truth cannot become obsolete.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:31 PM
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
For all intents and purposes it is marriage but you refuse to allow it the title because of one element.
Absolute Truth cannot become obsolete.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:32 PM
1) Homosexuality isn't a choice.
2) A holy union of two people... what's that called? Um.... oh, yes... marriage.
1) Your opinion which I respect but disagree with.
2) Your opinion which I respect but disagree with.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:32 PM
1) Homosexuality isn't a choice.
2) A holy union of two people... what's that called? Um.... oh, yes... marriage.
1) Your opinion which I respect but disagree with.
2) Your opinion which I respect but disagree with.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:32 PM
1) Homosexuality isn't a choice.
2) A holy union of two people... what's that called? Um.... oh, yes... marriage.
1) Your opinion which I respect but disagree with.
2) Your opinion which I respect but disagree with.
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 12:33 PM
If I believed that a Cigarette Lighter orbiting Mars created and controls everything in the universe, wouldn't people think I was off my rocker? Bat-**** crazy?
Why is it that believing in a magical being which sits over us in a cloud palace, who created the universe in seven days with a wrinkle of the nose and snap of the fingers, any different? :huh:
Would that be a Zippo or Bic lighter??
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 12:33 PM
If I believed that a Cigarette Lighter orbiting Mars created and controls everything in the universe, wouldn't people think I was off my rocker? Bat-**** crazy?
Why is it that believing in a magical being which sits over us in a cloud palace, who created the universe in seven days with a wrinkle of the nose and snap of the fingers, any different? :huh:
Would that be a Zippo or Bic lighter??
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 12:33 PM
If I believed that a Cigarette Lighter orbiting Mars created and controls everything in the universe, wouldn't people think I was off my rocker? Bat-**** crazy?
Why is it that believing in a magical being which sits over us in a cloud palace, who created the universe in seven days with a wrinkle of the nose and snap of the fingers, any different? :huh:
Would that be a Zippo or Bic lighter??
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:36 PM
Would that be a Zippo or Bic lighter??
It would have to be a Zippo.
According to Jean-Claude 9:14, of the Magic Gospel, "the Magic Cigarette Lighter is a Zippo. All other lighters are false idols, and those who worship Bics will spend eternity in the Giant Ashtray of Death."
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:36 PM
Would that be a Zippo or Bic lighter??
It would have to be a Zippo.
According to Jean-Claude 9:14, of the Magic Gospel, "the Magic Cigarette Lighter is a Zippo. All other lighters are false idols, and those who worship Bics will spend eternity in the Giant Ashtray of Death."
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:36 PM
Would that be a Zippo or Bic lighter??
It would have to be a Zippo.
According to Jean-Claude 9:14, of the Magic Gospel, "the Magic Cigarette Lighter is a Zippo. All other lighters are false idols, and those who worship Bics will spend eternity in the Giant Ashtray of Death."
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:37 PM
Excellent... except I don't believe in Heaven, so what is your point?
Additionally, why should the rights of the minority be left up to the voices of the majority? Why should states be allowed to decide who gets to marry whom, when the majority of the voting populace is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we have this centuries ago, when white Southerners voted to deny rights to the slaves? Haven't we learned from our mistakes that the rights of the few should not be left to the opinions of the many?
Finally... if you're a Catholic, I'm surprised you're even reading the Bible, since I was under the impression the Bible has become a taboo subject in recent church history, what with the selection of a man with a funny hat to serve as the voice between man and God, the Holy Trinity, and mandatory confession which seems to go against much of what the Bible stands for. Also, don't throw around that one line in the Bible which mentions homosexuality as a sin... because the context of that one line has been debated for centuries, and the argument you may have can easily be refuted by me in a quick Google search.
My point was I want you to go to heaven.
Well states get the right because we protect and honor a states rights so they would join the union and make government less powerful.
I'm not Catholic...(wait's for the storm) I"m southern baptist. The other guy was Catholic I don't think you need anyone to talk God you can do that on your own.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:37 PM
Excellent... except I don't believe in Heaven, so what is your point?
Additionally, why should the rights of the minority be left up to the voices of the majority? Why should states be allowed to decide who gets to marry whom, when the majority of the voting populace is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we have this centuries ago, when white Southerners voted to deny rights to the slaves? Haven't we learned from our mistakes that the rights of the few should not be left to the opinions of the many?
Finally... if you're a Catholic, I'm surprised you're even reading the Bible, since I was under the impression the Bible has become a taboo subject in recent church history, what with the selection of a man with a funny hat to serve as the voice between man and God, the Holy Trinity, and mandatory confession which seems to go against much of what the Bible stands for. Also, don't throw around that one line in the Bible which mentions homosexuality as a sin... because the context of that one line has been debated for centuries, and the argument you may have can easily be refuted by me in a quick Google search.
My point was I want you to go to heaven.
Well states get the right because we protect and honor a states rights so they would join the union and make government less powerful.
I'm not Catholic...(wait's for the storm) I"m southern baptist. The other guy was Catholic I don't think you need anyone to talk God you can do that on your own.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:37 PM
Excellent... except I don't believe in Heaven, so what is your point?
Additionally, why should the rights of the minority be left up to the voices of the majority? Why should states be allowed to decide who gets to marry whom, when the majority of the voting populace is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we have this centuries ago, when white Southerners voted to deny rights to the slaves? Haven't we learned from our mistakes that the rights of the few should not be left to the opinions of the many?
Finally... if you're a Catholic, I'm surprised you're even reading the Bible, since I was under the impression the Bible has become a taboo subject in recent church history, what with the selection of a man with a funny hat to serve as the voice between man and God, the Holy Trinity, and mandatory confession which seems to go against much of what the Bible stands for. Also, don't throw around that one line in the Bible which mentions homosexuality as a sin... because the context of that one line has been debated for centuries, and the argument you may have can easily be refuted by me in a quick Google search.
My point was I want you to go to heaven.
Well states get the right because we protect and honor a states rights so they would join the union and make government less powerful.
I'm not Catholic...(wait's for the storm) I"m southern baptist. The other guy was Catholic I don't think you need anyone to talk God you can do that on your own.
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:38 PM
It would have to be a Zippo.
According to Jean-Claude 9:14, of the Magic Gospel, "the Magic Cigarette Lighter is a Zippo. All other lighters are false idols, and those who worship Bics will spend eternity in the Giant Ashtray of Death."
Hahahahhaha it to be Jean-Claude huh:woot:
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:38 PM
It would have to be a Zippo.
According to Jean-Claude 9:14, of the Magic Gospel, "the Magic Cigarette Lighter is a Zippo. All other lighters are false idols, and those who worship Bics will spend eternity in the Giant Ashtray of Death."
Hahahahhaha it to be Jean-Claude huh:woot:
RAMORE
09-11-2008, 12:38 PM
It would have to be a Zippo.
According to Jean-Claude 9:14, of the Magic Gospel, "the Magic Cigarette Lighter is a Zippo. All other lighters are false idols, and those who worship Bics will spend eternity in the Giant Ashtray of Death."
Hahahahhaha it to be Jean-Claude huh:woot:
danoyse
09-11-2008, 12:39 PM
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
Her point, but thank you. :up:
danoyse
09-11-2008, 12:39 PM
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
Her point, but thank you. :up:
danoyse
09-11-2008, 12:39 PM
His point was that god didnt write the bible, man did. And the time we live in today has made many of the archaic beliefs in that book obsolete.
Her point, but thank you. :up:
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:42 PM
My point was I want you to go to heaven.
I've already been to Miami in June.
Well states get the right because we protect and honor a states rights so they would join the union and make government less powerful.
Except you miss my point.
Why should the people of these states get to decide the rights for minorities when the majority of the electorate is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we learn two hundred years ago or so when the South decided to enslave an entire race of people, and actively denied rights to these people until forty years ago?
I'm not Catholic...(wait's for the storm) I"m southern baptist. The other guy was Catholic I don't think you need anyone to talk God you can do that on your own.
Your denomination doesn't matter to me at all. The fact that you use religion as a shield to hide behind while you actively promote discrimination amongst people who don't follow your set of views matters.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:42 PM
My point was I want you to go to heaven.
I've already been to Miami in June.
Well states get the right because we protect and honor a states rights so they would join the union and make government less powerful.
Except you miss my point.
Why should the people of these states get to decide the rights for minorities when the majority of the electorate is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we learn two hundred years ago or so when the South decided to enslave an entire race of people, and actively denied rights to these people until forty years ago?
I'm not Catholic...(wait's for the storm) I"m southern baptist. The other guy was Catholic I don't think you need anyone to talk God you can do that on your own.
Your denomination doesn't matter to me at all. The fact that you use religion as a shield to hide behind while you actively promote discrimination amongst people who don't follow your set of views matters.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 12:42 PM
My point was I want you to go to heaven.
I've already been to Miami in June.
Well states get the right because we protect and honor a states rights so they would join the union and make government less powerful.
Except you miss my point.
Why should the people of these states get to decide the rights for minorities when the majority of the electorate is comprised of white Christian heterosexuals? Didn't we learn two hundred years ago or so when the South decided to enslave an entire race of people, and actively denied rights to these people until forty years ago?
I'm not Catholic...(wait's for the storm) I"m southern baptist. The other guy was Catholic I don't think you need anyone to talk God you can do that on your own.
Your denomination doesn't matter to me at all. The fact that you use religion as a shield to hide behind while you actively promote discrimination amongst people who don't follow your set of views matters.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:43 PM
Absolute Truth cannot become obsolete.
:wow:
So I take it you believe in these:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)
And other crazy bible passages about child abuse and slavery
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:43 PM
Absolute Truth cannot become obsolete.
:wow:
So I take it you believe in these:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)
And other crazy bible passages about child abuse and slavery
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 12:43 PM
Absolute Truth cannot become obsolete.
:wow:
So I take it you believe in these:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)
And other crazy bible passages about child abuse and slavery
Actually what I think I said was:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
And that is insulting. You are suggesting that gays convince themselves they're gay in an attempt to justify themselves to the rest of the world.
How is it Judging the book I consider truth says it's not good? Not my opiinon truth.
There is also a passage that says 'Judge not, lest ye be judged.' God is supposed to be all loving, all forgiving. Unfortunately, the decision by some supporters who use faith as an excuse to discriminate is a perversion of that belief. Too often, people cherry pick what they chose to follow in the Bible, and what they choose to ignore. The Bible also says that meat should not be eaten on sundays and that women should be stoned.
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
Do you believe in the seperation of church and state? Why do you believe that a personal belief based on a perversion of faith should be written into legislation?
Sorry i'm not on here 24/7 but I will answer questions directed at me as soon as I see them.
It's ok. I just repeat myself sometimes because questions and points often get lost in conversations.
Actually what I think I said was:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
And that is insulting. You are suggesting that gays convince themselves they're gay in an attempt to justify themselves to the rest of the world.
How is it Judging the book I consider truth says it's not good? Not my opiinon truth.
There is also a passage that says 'Judge not, lest ye be judged.' God is supposed to be all loving, all forgiving. Unfortunately, the decision by some supporters who use faith as an excuse to discriminate is a perversion of that belief. Too often, people cherry pick what they chose to follow in the Bible, and what they choose to ignore. The Bible also says that meat should not be eaten on sundays and that women should be stoned.
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
Do you believe in the seperation of church and state? Why do you believe that a personal belief based on a perversion of faith should be written into legislation?
Sorry i'm not on here 24/7 but I will answer questions directed at me as soon as I see them.
It's ok. I just repeat myself sometimes because questions and points often get lost in conversations.
Actually what I think I said was:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
And that is insulting. You are suggesting that gays convince themselves they're gay in an attempt to justify themselves to the rest of the world.
How is it Judging the book I consider truth says it's not good? Not my opiinon truth.
There is also a passage that says 'Judge not, lest ye be judged.' God is supposed to be all loving, all forgiving. Unfortunately, the decision by some supporters who use faith as an excuse to discriminate is a perversion of that belief. Too often, people cherry pick what they chose to follow in the Bible, and what they choose to ignore. The Bible also says that meat should not be eaten on sundays and that women should be stoned.
I'm personally against them calling their unions marriage and I would support a constitutional ban.
Do you believe in the seperation of church and state? Why do you believe that a personal belief based on a perversion of faith should be written into legislation?
Sorry i'm not on here 24/7 but I will answer questions directed at me as soon as I see them.
It's ok. I just repeat myself sometimes because questions and points often get lost in conversations.
:wow:
So I take it you believe in these:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)
And other crazy bible passages about child abuse and slavery
I was just getting ready to post those CK! You beat me to it! :csad:
:wow:
So I take it you believe in these:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)
And other crazy bible passages about child abuse and slavery
I was just getting ready to post those CK! You beat me to it! :csad:
:wow:
So I take it you believe in these:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)
And other crazy bible passages about child abuse and slavery
I was just getting ready to post those CK! You beat me to it! :csad:
Just going a little further with my point that people cherry pick what they do and do not believe (or follow) in the bible...
On women...
"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34)
"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)
"If any man takes a wife, and goes in on her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin..." (Deuteronomy 22:13,14)
"But if ... evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..." (Deuteronomy 22:20,21)
On sinning...
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)
On children born out of wedlock...
"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)
On slavery...
"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)
"Slaves, obey your human masters in everything; don't work only while being watched, in order to please men, but work wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord." (Colossians 3:22)
"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back ." (Titus 2:9)
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. " (1 Peter 2:18)
Just going a little further with my point that people cherry pick what they do and do not believe (or follow) in the bible...
On women...
"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34)
"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)
"If any man takes a wife, and goes in on her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin..." (Deuteronomy 22:13,14)
"But if ... evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..." (Deuteronomy 22:20,21)
On sinning...
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)
On children born out of wedlock...
"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)
On slavery...
"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)
"Slaves, obey your human masters in everything; don't work only while being watched, in order to please men, but work wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord." (Colossians 3:22)
"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back ." (Titus 2:9)
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. " (1 Peter 2:18)
Just going a little further with my point that people cherry pick what they do and do not believe (or follow) in the bible...
On women...
"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says." (1 Corinthians 14:34)
"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)
"If any man takes a wife, and goes in on her, and detests her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin..." (Deuteronomy 22:13,14)
"But if ... evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..." (Deuteronomy 22:20,21)
On sinning...
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)
On children born out of wedlock...
"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)
On slavery...
"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)
"Slaves, obey your human masters in everything; don't work only while being watched, in order to please men, but work wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord." (Colossians 3:22)
"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back ." (Titus 2:9)
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. " (1 Peter 2:18)
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 01:12 PM
You don't get to pick and choose with The Bible as is convenient....that's called hypocrisy
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 01:12 PM
You don't get to pick and choose with The Bible as is convenient....that's called hypocrisy
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 01:12 PM
You don't get to pick and choose with The Bible as is convenient....that's called hypocrisy
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 01:31 PM
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 01:31 PM
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 01:31 PM
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
The truth is if I was gay i'd much rather think I was born that way (so it would feel natural) and I could think I had no choice in the matter.
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore some verses (like the ones I posted) while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore some verses (like the ones I posted) while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore some verses (like the ones I posted) while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 01:49 PM
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore some verses (like the ones I posted) while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
Thanks Marx, and I know. :cool::up:
And I agree that the Bible clearly condemns the situations I've gotten involved with in the past. There are plenty of scriptures that support that. I also think that to an extent homosexuality is an abomination. Technically-speaking a man's ass is not really designed to handle another man's joint. I can testify to this because there have been times when I felt truly...sorry for my partners and I'll just end it there. Yet, it feels so ridiculously good sometimes I wonder, how could God hate it? :dry:
I'm not sure that God condemns ME as a person as a result of my bi-sexual orientation. I hope he doesn't. I want to believe he despises the actions. But I was raised to believe He hates both--and that rips a hole in my heart everytime I think about the possibilities of that being true. :(
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 01:49 PM
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore some verses (like the ones I posted) while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
Thanks Marx, and I know. :cool::up:
And I agree that the Bible clearly condemns the situations I've gotten involved with in the past. There are plenty of scriptures that support that. I also think that to an extent homosexuality is an abomination. Technically-speaking a man's ass is not really designed to handle another man's joint. I can testify to this because there have been times when I felt truly...sorry for my partners and I'll just end it there. Yet, it feels so ridiculously good sometimes I wonder, how could God hate it? :dry:
I'm not sure that God condemns ME as a person as a result of my bi-sexual orientation. I hope he doesn't. I want to believe he despises the actions. But I was raised to believe He hates both--and that rips a hole in my heart everytime I think about the possibilities of that being true. :(
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 01:49 PM
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore some verses (like the ones I posted) while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
Thanks Marx, and I know. :cool::up:
And I agree that the Bible clearly condemns the situations I've gotten involved with in the past. There are plenty of scriptures that support that. I also think that to an extent homosexuality is an abomination. Technically-speaking a man's ass is not really designed to handle another man's joint. I can testify to this because there have been times when I felt truly...sorry for my partners and I'll just end it there. Yet, it feels so ridiculously good sometimes I wonder, how could God hate it? :dry:
I'm not sure that God condemns ME as a person as a result of my bi-sexual orientation. I hope he doesn't. I want to believe he despises the actions. But I was raised to believe He hates both--and that rips a hole in my heart everytime I think about the possibilities of that being true. :(
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore those verses while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore those verses while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Welcome to the conversation Lightning! :yay:
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think it's naive to even suggest. I chose to use the scriptures as a means of asking those who believe the bible word for word why they choose to ignore those verses while praising others and saying that they should be taken as the gospel.
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
Franklin Richards
09-11-2008, 01:54 PM
So get rid of the god part of the equation. You'll feel much better.
:thing: :doom: :thing:
Franklin Richards
09-11-2008, 01:54 PM
So get rid of the god part of the equation. You'll feel much better.
:thing: :doom: :thing:
Franklin Richards
09-11-2008, 01:54 PM
So get rid of the god part of the equation. You'll feel much better.
:thing: :doom: :thing:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 02:00 PM
So get rid of the god part of the equation. You'll feel much better.
:thing: :doom: :thing:
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 02:00 PM
So get rid of the god part of the equation. You'll feel much better.
:thing: :doom: :thing:
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 02:00 PM
So get rid of the god part of the equation. You'll feel much better.
:thing: :doom: :thing:
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 02:01 PM
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
Agreed
But I think those who are looking for long standing relationships like marriage are probably those who are born gay than those who choose to be gay. But then again I dont know a hell of a lot of gay people and I could be wrong.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 02:01 PM
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
Agreed
But I think those who are looking for long standing relationships like marriage are probably those who are born gay than those who choose to be gay. But then again I dont know a hell of a lot of gay people and I could be wrong.
cerealkiller182
09-11-2008, 02:01 PM
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
Agreed
But I think those who are looking for long standing relationships like marriage are probably those who are born gay than those who choose to be gay. But then again I dont know a hell of a lot of gay people and I could be wrong.
Franklin Richards
09-11-2008, 02:03 PM
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
I'm tellin' ya, LS. It's a great world out here. Rip off the blinders and join in the fun while ya can.
:oldrazz:
:thing: :doom: :thing:
Franklin Richards
09-11-2008, 02:03 PM
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
I'm tellin' ya, LS. It's a great world out here. Rip off the blinders and join in the fun while ya can.
:oldrazz:
:thing: :doom: :thing:
Franklin Richards
09-11-2008, 02:03 PM
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
I'm tellin' ya, LS. It's a great world out here. Rip off the blinders and join in the fun while ya can.
:oldrazz:
:thing: :doom: :thing:
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
As I've said before, I believe that 90-95 percent are born gay.
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
As I've said before, I believe that 90-95 percent are born gay.
I've honestly thought for most it probably is not, but for some people it is....my best friend chooses to be with a woman, she likes guys, she has been with guys before, but she gets something from women she doesn't get from a man....I don't think you can say that 100 percent of gay people are born gay....just as you can't say 100 percent of them choose to be gay
As I've said before, I believe that 90-95 percent are born gay.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
The Senator
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
The Senator
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
You magnificent gay bastard you:yay:
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
You magnificent gay bastard you:yay:
BlackLantern
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
You magnificent gay bastard you:yay:
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
What BL said. :cwink:
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
What BL said. :cwink:
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
What BL said. :cwink:
The Senator
09-11-2008, 02:46 PM
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 02:46 PM
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 02:46 PM
Okay, I tried to stay silent during this discussion...but some of these posts are getting on my nerves. So here goes:
Meh. I'm not sure there can be a "choice in the matter." I believe same-sex attraction is deeply rooted in our primal instincts, and it's waaaaaaaay too complicated to ascertain just how much of it is natural and how much is choice. There are too many layers to really figure it out, label it and put it in a box like some of you are trying to do. :dry:
For example: I've always been attracted to women. But as early as 3 or 4 years old I also knew I felt differently about men...and even though it felt "natural" to me, somehow instinctively I always felt it was wrong. My Christian upbringing reinforced those feelings. My father was a bodybuilder just like me and he trained me to be uber-macho, not even to cry. So I made great efforts to destroy those so-called "f@ggot-loving" masculine attractions, as he'd call them.
Yet, as I got into Highschool and college sports (I did track & field, was on the football team and was a wrestling champ) those masculine attractions intensified to the point where I could equally get it on with a guy as easily as I could with a girl. And I struggled with feelings of guilt about this because like I said, I came from a VERY deeply religious household where homosexuality is condemned.
Today, I'm still struggling to reconcile these emotions...and I'm not sure it's even possible to do it. All I know is it torments me...especially on a spiritual level. It's like I don't fit into any of the categories you guys are talking about:
I don't have a lisp.
I don't have a broken wrist.
I don't wear pink.
And I love breasts and poo-saye. Trim is my friend.
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
Hobgoblin
09-11-2008, 03:00 PM
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
I can relate. I'm a manic depressive and people are really ignorant on the subject. One friend just told me I was stupid instead of ill and another that Satan was just trying to soften me up for possession. I certainly never asked to have this problem but here it is. (And I dont mean to call homosexuality a problem.) While I do have religious beliefs, I have a hard time condemning gays because I can relate, in a way.
I dunno, its complex.
Hobgoblin
09-11-2008, 03:00 PM
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
I can relate. I'm a manic depressive and people are really ignorant on the subject. One friend just told me I was stupid instead of ill and another that Satan was just trying to soften me up for possession. I certainly never asked to have this problem but here it is. (And I dont mean to call homosexuality a problem.) While I do have religious beliefs, I have a hard time condemning gays because I can relate, in a way.
I dunno, its complex.
Hobgoblin
09-11-2008, 03:00 PM
Yet, I have zero problem pounding a man's a$$, and then absolutely despise myself afterward. I can't even PRAY to God afterward. It's like I am two very different sexual beasts...and both want to nuke the other. So why the hell would I "choose" to put myself through this heartache??? :confused:
I think some of you are oversimplifying a very complicated thing with scriptures. :down:
I can relate. I'm a manic depressive and people are really ignorant on the subject. One friend just told me I was stupid instead of ill and another that Satan was just trying to soften me up for possession. I certainly never asked to have this problem but here it is. (And I dont mean to call homosexuality a problem.) While I do have religious beliefs, I have a hard time condemning gays because I can relate, in a way.
I dunno, its complex.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
I know where you're coming from. I left my first buddy to "get my religion" back. He had a total "WTF" expression on his face as I broke the news. He couldn't understand my struggle because he wholeheartedly embraced the life. I resisted it because I still was attracted to girls, wanted to get married, have kids, etc.
And what's really ****ed up, is that we continued to have sex sporadically even though I had already broke it off. We'd just be chilling watching the game and then BAM! we'd be at it like dogs in heat. :whatever: For no good reason. It was like he was glad I'd broken my religous vow AGAIN. :dry: And the end result was the same each and every time: I'd sit on the edge of the bed pissed, depressed and despondent. And he'd have the same "WTF" look on his face.
Once he asked me, "How could something that feels so good bring you so much pain? I should be the one feeling the pain!" He laughed at his own joke thinking it'd cheer me up. And I just glared at his ass. I agree that leading up to the moment, it was always good, but I hated it the moment we were done. Eventually, he got sick of me treating him like a yo-yo and he cut MY moody ass off. :dry:
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
I know where you're coming from. I left my first buddy to "get my religion" back. He had a total "WTF" expression on his face as I broke the news. He couldn't understand my struggle because he wholeheartedly embraced the life. I resisted it because I still was attracted to girls, wanted to get married, have kids, etc.
And what's really ****ed up, is that we continued to have sex sporadically even though I had already broke it off. We'd just be chilling watching the game and then BAM! we'd be at it like dogs in heat. :whatever: For no good reason. It was like he was glad I'd broken my religous vow AGAIN. :dry: And the end result was the same each and every time: I'd sit on the edge of the bed pissed, depressed and despondent. And he'd have the same "WTF" look on his face.
Once he asked me, "How could something that feels so good bring you so much pain? I should be the one feeling the pain!" He laughed at his own joke thinking it'd cheer me up. And I just glared at his ass. I agree that leading up to the moment, it was always good, but I hated it the moment we were done. Eventually, he got sick of me treating him like a yo-yo and he cut MY moody ass off. :dry:
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
I know where you're coming from. I left my first buddy to "get my religion" back. He had a total "WTF" expression on his face as I broke the news. He couldn't understand my struggle because he wholeheartedly embraced the life. I resisted it because I still was attracted to girls, wanted to get married, have kids, etc.
And what's really ****ed up, is that we continued to have sex sporadically even though I had already broke it off. We'd just be chilling watching the game and then BAM! we'd be at it like dogs in heat. :whatever: For no good reason. It was like he was glad I'd broken my religous vow AGAIN. :dry: And the end result was the same each and every time: I'd sit on the edge of the bed pissed, depressed and despondent. And he'd have the same "WTF" look on his face.
Once he asked me, "How could something that feels so good bring you so much pain? I should be the one feeling the pain!" He laughed at his own joke thinking it'd cheer me up. And I just glared at his ass. I agree that leading up to the moment, it was always good, but I hated it the moment we were done. Eventually, he got sick of me treating him like a yo-yo and he cut MY moody ass off. :dry:
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:20 PM
I can relate. I'm a manic depressive and people are really ignorant on the subject. One friend just told me I was stupid instead of ill and another that Satan was just trying to soften me up for possession. I certainly never asked to have this problem but here it is. (And I dont mean to call homosexuality a problem.) While I do have religious beliefs, I have a hard time condemning gays because I can relate, in a way.
I dunno, its complex.
Aye. For some of us, having these complex emotions can actually lead to depression.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:20 PM
I can relate. I'm a manic depressive and people are really ignorant on the subject. One friend just told me I was stupid instead of ill and another that Satan was just trying to soften me up for possession. I certainly never asked to have this problem but here it is. (And I dont mean to call homosexuality a problem.) While I do have religious beliefs, I have a hard time condemning gays because I can relate, in a way.
I dunno, its complex.
Aye. For some of us, having these complex emotions can actually lead to depression.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:20 PM
I can relate. I'm a manic depressive and people are really ignorant on the subject. One friend just told me I was stupid instead of ill and another that Satan was just trying to soften me up for possession. I certainly never asked to have this problem but here it is. (And I dont mean to call homosexuality a problem.) While I do have religious beliefs, I have a hard time condemning gays because I can relate, in a way.
I dunno, its complex.
Aye. For some of us, having these complex emotions can actually lead to depression.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
LOL Way to embrace your fate! :lmao:
You know what they're going to punish you with down there? Not pushing a boulder up a hill over and over and over again for eternity. Noooo, the devil is gonna make you have sex with women for the rest of your life. :nono:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
LOL Way to embrace your fate! :lmao:
You know what they're going to punish you with down there? Not pushing a boulder up a hill over and over and over again for eternity. Noooo, the devil is gonna make you have sex with women for the rest of your life. :nono:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm already going to hell since I was born out of wedlock, so as far as Christians should be concerned, I can do whatever want, whoever I want, and not have to worry since I already know my fate :up:
LOL Way to embrace your fate! :lmao:
You know what they're going to punish you with down there? Not pushing a boulder up a hill over and over and over again for eternity. Noooo, the devil is gonna make you have sex with women for the rest of your life. :nono:
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:25 PM
someone should discuss the rights of that gay map in the Obama thread.
but seriously.
how come people are so comfortable saying that Gay people "choose" to be gay.
I mean, I have said time and time again that when I was growing up there was this one dude amongst my group of friends who we KNEW was going to end up being gay.
and, then comes puberty and yes, he was very, very gay.
tough thing to be in Mexico where the word "Macho" was coined.
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:25 PM
someone should discuss the rights of that gay map in the Obama thread.
but seriously.
how come people are so comfortable saying that Gay people "choose" to be gay.
I mean, I have said time and time again that when I was growing up there was this one dude amongst my group of friends who we KNEW was going to end up being gay.
and, then comes puberty and yes, he was very, very gay.
tough thing to be in Mexico where the word "Macho" was coined.
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:25 PM
someone should discuss the rights of that gay map in the Obama thread.
but seriously.
how come people are so comfortable saying that Gay people "choose" to be gay.
I mean, I have said time and time again that when I was growing up there was this one dude amongst my group of friends who we KNEW was going to end up being gay.
and, then comes puberty and yes, he was very, very gay.
tough thing to be in Mexico where the word "Macho" was coined.
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:27 PM
How can you be "very, very" gay? Isn't one "very" enough? :hehe:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:27 PM
How can you be "very, very" gay? Isn't one "very" enough? :hehe:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:27 PM
How can you be "very, very" gay? Isn't one "very" enough? :hehe:
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:28 PM
the dude actually played with dolls, and like combed their hair while humming songs and we would be around the play area with like tanks and gi joes and **** going like "WTF?"
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:28 PM
the dude actually played with dolls, and like combed their hair while humming songs and we would be around the play area with like tanks and gi joes and **** going like "WTF?"
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:28 PM
the dude actually played with dolls, and like combed their hair while humming songs and we would be around the play area with like tanks and gi joes and **** going like "WTF?"
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:30 PM
the dude actually played with dolls, and like combed their hair while humming songs and we would be around the play area with like tanks and gi joes and **** going like "WTF?"
What the hell? Okay, that's beyond "very, very gay." That's called FROO-TAY with a capital "F". :dry:
Doll-playing crosses the line...:down:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:30 PM
the dude actually played with dolls, and like combed their hair while humming songs and we would be around the play area with like tanks and gi joes and **** going like "WTF?"
What the hell? Okay, that's beyond "very, very gay." That's called FROO-TAY with a capital "F". :dry:
Doll-playing crosses the line...:down:
Lightning Strykez!
09-11-2008, 04:30 PM
the dude actually played with dolls, and like combed their hair while humming songs and we would be around the play area with like tanks and gi joes and **** going like "WTF?"
What the hell? Okay, that's beyond "very, very gay." That's called FROO-TAY with a capital "F". :dry:
Doll-playing crosses the line...:down:
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:33 PM
well, I'm just making a point that this **** came from BIRTH because his other brothers were NOT like him (hence not NURTURE in this case) and his sister liked the guys.
like a lot.
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:33 PM
well, I'm just making a point that this **** came from BIRTH because his other brothers were NOT like him (hence not NURTURE in this case) and his sister liked the guys.
like a lot.
Mr Sparkle
09-11-2008, 04:33 PM
well, I'm just making a point that this **** came from BIRTH because his other brothers were NOT like him (hence not NURTURE in this case) and his sister liked the guys.
like a lot.
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
I know where you're coming from. I left my first buddy to "get my religion" back. He had a total "WTF" expression on his face as I broke the news. He couldn't understand my struggle because he wholeheartedly embraced the life. I resisted it because I still was attracted to girls, wanted to get married, have kids, etc.
And what's really ****ed up, is that we continued to have sex sporadically even though I had already broke it off. We'd just be chilling watching the game and then BAM! we'd be at it like dogs in heat. :whatever: For no good reason. It was like he was glad I'd broken my religous vow AGAIN. :dry: And the end result was the same each and every time: I'd sit on the edge of the bed pissed, depressed and despondent. And he'd have the same "WTF" look on his face.
Once he asked me, "How could something that feels so good bring you so much pain? I should be the one feeling the pain!" He laughed at his own joke thinking it'd cheer me up. And I just glared at his ass. I agree that leading up to the moment, it was always good, but I hated it the moment we were done. Eventually, he got sick of me treating him like a yo-yo and he cut MY moody ass off. :dry:
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
I know where you're coming from. I left my first buddy to "get my religion" back. He had a total "WTF" expression on his face as I broke the news. He couldn't understand my struggle because he wholeheartedly embraced the life. I resisted it because I still was attracted to girls, wanted to get married, have kids, etc.
And what's really ****ed up, is that we continued to have sex sporadically even though I had already broke it off. We'd just be chilling watching the game and then BAM! we'd be at it like dogs in heat. :whatever: For no good reason. It was like he was glad I'd broken my religous vow AGAIN. :dry: And the end result was the same each and every time: I'd sit on the edge of the bed pissed, depressed and despondent. And he'd have the same "WTF" look on his face.
Once he asked me, "How could something that feels so good bring you so much pain? I should be the one feeling the pain!" He laughed at his own joke thinking it'd cheer me up. And I just glared at his ass. I agree that leading up to the moment, it was always good, but I hated it the moment we were done. Eventually, he got sick of me treating him like a yo-yo and he cut MY moody ass off. :dry:
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
I know where you're coming from. I left my first buddy to "get my religion" back. He had a total "WTF" expression on his face as I broke the news. He couldn't understand my struggle because he wholeheartedly embraced the life. I resisted it because I still was attracted to girls, wanted to get married, have kids, etc.
And what's really ****ed up, is that we continued to have sex sporadically even though I had already broke it off. We'd just be chilling watching the game and then BAM! we'd be at it like dogs in heat. :whatever: For no good reason. It was like he was glad I'd broken my religous vow AGAIN. :dry: And the end result was the same each and every time: I'd sit on the edge of the bed pissed, depressed and despondent. And he'd have the same "WTF" look on his face.
Once he asked me, "How could something that feels so good bring you so much pain? I should be the one feeling the pain!" He laughed at his own joke thinking it'd cheer me up. And I just glared at his ass. I agree that leading up to the moment, it was always good, but I hated it the moment we were done. Eventually, he got sick of me treating him like a yo-yo and he cut MY moody ass off. :dry:
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
thedeadite
09-11-2008, 09:09 PM
What the hell? Okay, that's beyond "very, very gay." That's called FROO-TAY with a capital "F". :dry:
Doll-playing crosses the line...:down:
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
On topic, the discussion of gay rights is rediculous in my opinion. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what their gender, race, creed, colour or sexual orientation.
thedeadite
09-11-2008, 09:09 PM
What the hell? Okay, that's beyond "very, very gay." That's called FROO-TAY with a capital "F". :dry:
Doll-playing crosses the line...:down:
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
On topic, the discussion of gay rights is rediculous in my opinion. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what their gender, race, creed, colour or sexual orientation.
thedeadite
09-11-2008, 09:09 PM
What the hell? Okay, that's beyond "very, very gay." That's called FROO-TAY with a capital "F". :dry:
Doll-playing crosses the line...:down:
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
On topic, the discussion of gay rights is rediculous in my opinion. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what their gender, race, creed, colour or sexual orientation.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 09:41 PM
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
Considering my first boyfriend was white and is an avid supporter of John McCain and all things Republican, I highly doubt he is Lightning. Additionally, I'm not sure his tiny little brain can help him formulate enough words to fill up the minimum character quota required to post here.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 09:41 PM
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
Considering my first boyfriend was white and is an avid supporter of John McCain and all things Republican, I highly doubt he is Lightning. Additionally, I'm not sure his tiny little brain can help him formulate enough words to fill up the minimum character quota required to post here.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 09:41 PM
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
Considering my first boyfriend was white and is an avid supporter of John McCain and all things Republican, I highly doubt he is Lightning. Additionally, I'm not sure his tiny little brain can help him formulate enough words to fill up the minimum character quota required to post here.
Considering my first boyfriend was white and is an avid supporter of John McCain and all things Republican, I highly doubt he is Lightning. Additionally, I'm not sure his tiny little brain can help him formulate enough words to fill up the minimum character quota required to post here.
Just checkin. :cwink:
Considering my first boyfriend was white and is an avid supporter of John McCain and all things Republican, I highly doubt he is Lightning. Additionally, I'm not sure his tiny little brain can help him formulate enough words to fill up the minimum character quota required to post here.
Just checkin. :cwink:
Considering my first boyfriend was white and is an avid supporter of John McCain and all things Republican, I highly doubt he is Lightning. Additionally, I'm not sure his tiny little brain can help him formulate enough words to fill up the minimum character quota required to post here.
Just checkin. :cwink:
danoyse
09-11-2008, 09:46 PM
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
I was a tomboy growing up. I liked Star Wars toys more than Barbie dolls, hated dressing up, was really good at baseball, and l liked racing my bike.
Definitely not gay, though...
On topic, the discussion of gay rights is rediculous in my opinion. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what their gender, race, creed, colour or sexual orientation.
Exactly. :up:
danoyse
09-11-2008, 09:46 PM
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
I was a tomboy growing up. I liked Star Wars toys more than Barbie dolls, hated dressing up, was really good at baseball, and l liked racing my bike.
Definitely not gay, though...
On topic, the discussion of gay rights is rediculous in my opinion. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what their gender, race, creed, colour or sexual orientation.
Exactly. :up:
danoyse
09-11-2008, 09:46 PM
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
I was a tomboy growing up. I liked Star Wars toys more than Barbie dolls, hated dressing up, was really good at baseball, and l liked racing my bike.
Definitely not gay, though...
On topic, the discussion of gay rights is rediculous in my opinion. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Everyone deserves the same rights no matter what their gender, race, creed, colour or sexual orientation.
Exactly. :up:
MaskedManJRK
09-11-2008, 10:23 PM
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
Hmm...do you have a specific religion that you believe in, or do you just believe in God?
I ask because I know there are gay-friendly churches and dominations. The most all-inclusive are the Unitarian Universalists, and I believe the Luthuran church has opened it's doors to gay people.
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
EDITED: Inappropriate comment.
MaskedManJRK
09-11-2008, 10:23 PM
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
Hmm...do you have a specific religion that you believe in, or do you just believe in God?
I ask because I know there are gay-friendly churches and dominations. The most all-inclusive are the Unitarian Universalists, and I believe the Luthuran church has opened it's doors to gay people.
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
EDITED: Inappropriate comment.
MaskedManJRK
09-11-2008, 10:23 PM
I can't do that. My religion is a HUGE part of my life. Take God out of the equation for me, and my entire outlook on life comes apart at the seams. I NEED God in my life.
Hmm...do you have a specific religion that you believe in, or do you just believe in God?
I ask because I know there are gay-friendly churches and dominations. The most all-inclusive are the Unitarian Universalists, and I believe the Luthuran church has opened it's doors to gay people.
Religion was what sent my first "boyfriend" (we weren't actually in a relationship though, so I don't know what to call it) back to heterosexuality. As upset as I was that he left me, I understood his personal convictions were far more important than any relationship I would want to pursue.
And that's where I stand on this: I can understand why someone would be personally opposed to homosexuality. But what I cannot understand is wanting to impose that view, whether personal or religious, on society as a whole. To me, that is blatant heterosexism.
EDITED: Inappropriate comment.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 11:00 PM
I kinda wish I knew that the inappropriate comment was... he may have been right.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 11:00 PM
I kinda wish I knew that the inappropriate comment was... he may have been right.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 11:00 PM
I kinda wish I knew that the inappropriate comment was... he may have been right.
ShadowBoxing
09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
I kinda wish I knew that the inappropriate comment was... he may have been right.
Usually when I was with a girl and it wasn't a relationship, it could be summed up with an inappropriate comment.
ShadowBoxing
09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
I kinda wish I knew that the inappropriate comment was... he may have been right.
Usually when I was with a girl and it wasn't a relationship, it could be summed up with an inappropriate comment.
ShadowBoxing
09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
I kinda wish I knew that the inappropriate comment was... he may have been right.
Usually when I was with a girl and it wasn't a relationship, it could be summed up with an inappropriate comment.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Well my relationship was entirely inappropriate so I don't think any comments would offend me.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Well my relationship was entirely inappropriate so I don't think any comments would offend me.
The Senator
09-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Well my relationship was entirely inappropriate so I don't think any comments would offend me.
Hobgoblin
09-11-2008, 11:29 PM
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Do you prefer one sex over the other? I heard Elton John once say that he would get tired of one or the other after a while.
I gotta say, its amazing how rigid our society is in regards to gender conformity. I liked Rainbow Bright and cooking as a kid and wasnt especially athletic. You all know what people were thinking about that. Sure, I asked the girl next door to marry me when I was 7, but I still wasnt "manly enough." Men have to be supermen and women have to be the ultimate in femininity.
Hobgoblin
09-11-2008, 11:29 PM
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Do you prefer one sex over the other? I heard Elton John once say that he would get tired of one or the other after a while.
I gotta say, its amazing how rigid our society is in regards to gender conformity. I liked Rainbow Bright and cooking as a kid and wasnt especially athletic. You all know what people were thinking about that. Sure, I asked the girl next door to marry me when I was 7, but I still wasnt "manly enough." Men have to be supermen and women have to be the ultimate in femininity.
Hobgoblin
09-11-2008, 11:29 PM
Again, I just don't believe anyone in their right mind would "choose" to go through such a struggle. Interestingly enough, I don't feel such guilt after having sex with women. Go figure. :confused:
Do you prefer one sex over the other? I heard Elton John once say that he would get tired of one or the other after a while.
I gotta say, its amazing how rigid our society is in regards to gender conformity. I liked Rainbow Bright and cooking as a kid and wasnt especially athletic. You all know what people were thinking about that. Sure, I asked the girl next door to marry me when I was 7, but I still wasnt "manly enough." Men have to be supermen and women have to be the ultimate in femininity.
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:21 AM
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
:lmao:
Unless, Jman is a hot, dark-haired Italian gymrat from the Bronx....I don't think so.
Hmm...do you have a specific religion that you believe in, or do you just believe in God?
I'm a Christian. None of those churches you mentioned appeal to me though. Honestly, I do think that homosexuality is fundamentally wrong--based on the scriptures, which I believe were written by God. So therein lies my conflict. I don't want a faith that panders to MY sexuality, I want one that uses the Bible as its foundation only...and the Bible clearly says gay life is not what God intended for people. :csad:
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:21 AM
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
:lmao:
Unless, Jman is a hot, dark-haired Italian gymrat from the Bronx....I don't think so.
Hmm...do you have a specific religion that you believe in, or do you just believe in God?
I'm a Christian. None of those churches you mentioned appeal to me though. Honestly, I do think that homosexuality is fundamentally wrong--based on the scriptures, which I believe were written by God. So therein lies my conflict. I don't want a faith that panders to MY sexuality, I want one that uses the Bible as its foundation only...and the Bible clearly says gay life is not what God intended for people. :csad:
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:21 AM
Wait a minute...Jman's first left him for religion and Lightning left his first for religion...do you guys know who each other really are outside of the HYPE?
*gives sly, suspicious look at both of you*
:lmao:
Unless, Jman is a hot, dark-haired Italian gymrat from the Bronx....I don't think so.
Hmm...do you have a specific religion that you believe in, or do you just believe in God?
I'm a Christian. None of those churches you mentioned appeal to me though. Honestly, I do think that homosexuality is fundamentally wrong--based on the scriptures, which I believe were written by God. So therein lies my conflict. I don't want a faith that panders to MY sexuality, I want one that uses the Bible as its foundation only...and the Bible clearly says gay life is not what God intended for people. :csad:
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:24 AM
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
Well, we all liked Rainbow Brite and The Color Kids...c'mon if you were anywhere in the 1980s, you were all up in the mix of Color Land and Murky Lurky and that damn cereal. :oldrazz:
And no, dolls in itself does not constitute gayness. But in the case of Sparkle's experience, that is froo-tay.
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:24 AM
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
Well, we all liked Rainbow Brite and The Color Kids...c'mon if you were anywhere in the 1980s, you were all up in the mix of Color Land and Murky Lurky and that damn cereal. :oldrazz:
And no, dolls in itself does not constitute gayness. But in the case of Sparkle's experience, that is froo-tay.
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:24 AM
Hey, I played with dolls. Barbies, my little pony, rainbow brite etc.. and I'm not gay (here come the denial jokes) in fact I was chasing girls in kindergarten and trying to get kisses from the grade 8 girls. My best friend was a girl growing up though. Not that this has anything to do with gay rights, just saying that playing with dolls doesn't constitute being gay.
Well, we all liked Rainbow Brite and The Color Kids...c'mon if you were anywhere in the 1980s, you were all up in the mix of Color Land and Murky Lurky and that damn cereal. :oldrazz:
And no, dolls in itself does not constitute gayness. But in the case of Sparkle's experience, that is froo-tay.
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:44 AM
Do you prefer one sex over the other? I heard Elton John once say that he would get tired of one or the other after a while.
I don't know how quite to answer that question. Are you talking in terms of sex or relationships?
I like what I like. I like being with women because of the tenderness, the compassion, the soothing way they deal with men. They are nurturers and considering my troubled past I need a lot of nurturing. But they are also more needy. I was a fireman for years and my ex-gf had a hard time with me being gone so much. Women generally require a LOT of communication and especially time...a commodity I don't always have a lot of.
Guys are a lot different. I'm a jock, so I tend to hang out with guys interested in sports, bodybuilding etc. I think we as men understand eachother in ways women do not. Relationships with guys are much less complicated, because we are low maintenance. It doesn't take a lot to make a guy happy with you. And while communication is very important here too, men just have a connection that doesn't require a lot of talking. We can hit the weights, watch a game, have a beer, and get bent all in the span of one Sunday afternoon/evening and that's considered "quality time" even though we didn't say much to eachother the whole day. :hehe: It's just...different. Many men suck though when it comes to nurturing and sensitivity (at least the guys I've been involved with).
Now in terms of sexual satisfaction, I think men do a better job for men. We have the same anatomy and know what feels good. With women it's more mystery theatre. And you don't know if you're really hitting the spot the way you should--some women are hard to read that way. And I can't be nearly as rough with a woman as I would be with a dude. I remember one time I was with this beautiful spanish girl and it was getting so good to me that I grabbed the headboard to support myself and it freaked her out. She thought somehow that I was being violent. And she totally killed the moment. :dry:
Most guys would be turned on by that type of physical aggression, and they could take it in stride...literally.
Hope that answers your question? :confused:
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:44 AM
Do you prefer one sex over the other? I heard Elton John once say that he would get tired of one or the other after a while.
I don't know how quite to answer that question. Are you talking in terms of sex or relationships?
I like what I like. I like being with women because of the tenderness, the compassion, the soothing way they deal with men. They are nurturers and considering my troubled past I need a lot of nurturing. But they are also more needy. I was a fireman for years and my ex-gf had a hard time with me being gone so much. Women generally require a LOT of communication and especially time...a commodity I don't always have a lot of.
Guys are a lot different. I'm a jock, so I tend to hang out with guys interested in sports, bodybuilding etc. I think we as men understand eachother in ways women do not. Relationships with guys are much less complicated, because we are low maintenance. It doesn't take a lot to make a guy happy with you. And while communication is very important here too, men just have a connection that doesn't require a lot of talking. We can hit the weights, watch a game, have a beer, and get bent all in the span of one Sunday afternoon/evening and that's considered "quality time" even though we didn't say much to eachother the whole day. :hehe: It's just...different. Many men suck though when it comes to nurturing and sensitivity (at least the guys I've been involved with).
Now in terms of sexual satisfaction, I think men do a better job for men. We have the same anatomy and know what feels good. With women it's more mystery theatre. And you don't know if you're really hitting the spot the way you should--some women are hard to read that way. And I can't be nearly as rough with a woman as I would be with a dude. I remember one time I was with this beautiful spanish girl and it was getting so good to me that I grabbed the headboard to support myself and it freaked her out. She thought somehow that I was being violent. And she totally killed the moment. :dry:
Most guys would be turned on by that type of physical aggression, and they could take it in stride...literally.
Hope that answers your question? :confused:
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 08:44 AM
Do you prefer one sex over the other? I heard Elton John once say that he would get tired of one or the other after a while.
I don't know how quite to answer that question. Are you talking in terms of sex or relationships?
I like what I like. I like being with women because of the tenderness, the compassion, the soothing way they deal with men. They are nurturers and considering my troubled past I need a lot of nurturing. But they are also more needy. I was a fireman for years and my ex-gf had a hard time with me being gone so much. Women generally require a LOT of communication and especially time...a commodity I don't always have a lot of.
Guys are a lot different. I'm a jock, so I tend to hang out with guys interested in sports, bodybuilding etc. I think we as men understand eachother in ways women do not. Relationships with guys are much less complicated, because we are low maintenance. It doesn't take a lot to make a guy happy with you. And while communication is very important here too, men just have a connection that doesn't require a lot of talking. We can hit the weights, watch a game, have a beer, and get bent all in the span of one Sunday afternoon/evening and that's considered "quality time" even though we didn't say much to eachother the whole day. :hehe: It's just...different. Many men suck though when it comes to nurturing and sensitivity (at least the guys I've been involved with).
Now in terms of sexual satisfaction, I think men do a better job for men. We have the same anatomy and know what feels good. With women it's more mystery theatre. And you don't know if you're really hitting the spot the way you should--some women are hard to read that way. And I can't be nearly as rough with a woman as I would be with a dude. I remember one time I was with this beautiful spanish girl and it was getting so good to me that I grabbed the headboard to support myself and it freaked her out. She thought somehow that I was being violent. And she totally killed the moment. :dry:
Most guys would be turned on by that type of physical aggression, and they could take it in stride...literally.
Hope that answers your question? :confused:
The Senator
09-12-2008, 11:11 AM
:lmao:
Unless, Jman is a hot, dark-haired Italian gymrat from the Bronx....I don't think so.
I've never lived in the Bronx, nor am I Italian.
Case closed.
The Senator
09-12-2008, 11:11 AM
:lmao:
Unless, Jman is a hot, dark-haired Italian gymrat from the Bronx....I don't think so.
I've never lived in the Bronx, nor am I Italian.
Case closed.
The Senator
09-12-2008, 11:11 AM
:lmao:
Unless, Jman is a hot, dark-haired Italian gymrat from the Bronx....I don't think so.
I've never lived in the Bronx, nor am I Italian.
Case closed.
Hobgoblin
09-12-2008, 03:08 PM
Hope that answers your question? :confused:
Yup. It just seems that many gay men also have some bi sexual tendencies. I remember Carson Kresler being on Late Night with Conan O'Brien saying he could see a sexy woman and be attracted to her breasts, hips, legs and then remember he was gay when he wanted her shoes. I was like "Huh?"
Hobgoblin
09-12-2008, 03:08 PM
Hope that answers your question? :confused:
Yup. It just seems that many gay men also have some bi sexual tendencies. I remember Carson Kresler being on Late Night with Conan O'Brien saying he could see a sexy woman and be attracted to her breasts, hips, legs and then remember he was gay when he wanted her shoes. I was like "Huh?"
Hobgoblin
09-12-2008, 03:08 PM
Hope that answers your question? :confused:
Yup. It just seems that many gay men also have some bi sexual tendencies. I remember Carson Kresler being on Late Night with Conan O'Brien saying he could see a sexy woman and be attracted to her breasts, hips, legs and then remember he was gay when he wanted her shoes. I was like "Huh?"
Lightning Strykez!
09-12-2008, 04:17 PM
Yup. It just seems that many gay men also have some bi sexual tendencies. I remember Carson Kresler being on Late Night with Conan O'Brien saying he could see a sexy woman and be attracted to her breasts, hips, legs and then remember he was gay when he wanted her shoes. I was like "Huh?"
See, that's what I was talking about: there are many layers to this thing. Some aspects of gay life are real turn-offs to me. Trannies for example...are horrific and give me nightmares. Cross-dressing is gross. Yet, there are some gay and bi men who are drawn to and even participate in these things.
That's another layer. It's not one that I subscribe to, but nonetheless, it is a layer.
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